Military Review

IDF represents 5 most innovative weapons systems

236
The Israel Defense Forces are one of the most technologically advanced armies in the world. Here are five of its most innovative weapons systems (at least the ones we can tell you about) that help the IDF soldiers on the battlefield every day.


1. IDF Unmanned Ground Vehicles

IDF represents 5 most innovative weapons systems

The border with Gaza is one of the most intense areas of Israel. Hamas snipers, anti-tank missiles and improvised explosive devices pose a constant threat to IDF soldiers patrolling a security fence on the border with Gaza.

To counter these threats, the IDF is using Guardium, an unmanned ground vehicle (UGV) that patrols the Gaza border around the clock. “The most important advantage of Guardium is that it saves human lives and money too,” said Lieutenant Avidav, commander of the Guardium unit.

Guardium is unarmed, but it is equipped with surveillance cameras with an overview of 360 degrees and a loudspeaker. He is highly mobile, which allows him to transfer images from various angles and collect more intelligence data than stationary cameras do.

Infantrymen often patrol with Guardium, which can detect threats from a distance. In the event that he discovers anything suspicious, the operator at the command post immediately notifies the infantrymen of this directly.
Read more about the IDF unmanned ground vehicles here.

2. Windshield Mobile Radar


The IDF has developed a new mobile radar (windshield radar) that will help save the lives of the IDF soldiers during any future war. The radar will be deployed in armored and infantry brigades and will be able to respond quickly to rocket attacks. The mobile radar will determine the source of the fire conducted by the brigade, including from short distances, and provide the IDF forces with the ability to quickly suppress sources of fire.

Read more about mobile radar here.

3. Trophy active protection complex



The Trophy Active Defense Complex was developed for only one purpose. It is designed to neutralize the Achilles heel of armored vehicles - modern anti-tank guided missile systems. How it works? Simple: The Trophy system creates 360-degree circular protection around tank. When the enemy launches a missile on a tank equipped with KAZ Trophy, the complex instantly detects and neutralizes any threats to the tank by launching its own missile intercepting the enemy’s rocket (approx. Professors. Actually, the missile is not fired, but the attack nuclei. The missile is used in KAZ Iron Fist).

Read more about KAZ Trophy here.

4. The missile defense system Iron Dome


The missile defense system The Iron Dome was deployed in southern Israel at the start of 2011, in order to protect the population of Israel from missiles fired from the Gaza Strip.

The system is the first of its kind. From the point of view of speed, accuracy and capabilities, there were no similar systems in the world before LCD. Each individual battery is fully mobile and includes a radar station, a control unit weapons and the launcher with missiles. As soon as the enemy missile is launched at Israel, the radar station detects the missile, determines its trajectory, and the system launches its own missile to intercept and neutralize the enemy’s missile before it can cause any damage.
Read more about the Iron Dome here.

5. Dolphin class IDF submarines


The new IDF submarines are equipped with completely new systems and, therefore, have new capabilities. Among them - improved stealth and the ability to stay longer under water. These new submarines use AIP technology (air-independent propulsion, movement using an air-independent propulsion system), which allows them to stay under water longer. Stealth is provided by a reduced noise level.

New submarines will be equipped with the most modern systems of naval armament and improved detection capabilities of the enemy. They will also be more maneuverable. Since they are larger than their predecessors, they are equipped with a new vertical rudder control post that will allow their commanders to more easily maneuver in strong currents.
Originator:
http://www.idfblog.com/2014/04/20/5-innovative-weapons-idf-offer-can-tell/
236 comments
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  1. Horst78
    Horst78 April 28 2014 08: 31
    +60
    Professor, where in Israel do submarines do? Probably in the shipyards of Germany, and FOR FREE laughing
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 April 28 2014 08: 33
      +12
      Well, yes, like the cases for Namer, and the engines for Merkava and other Israel-only assemblies, I can lay out a list of companies involved in the production of Merkava, I have been collecting plans for a long time ...
      From memory: the engines for Merkava were first German MTUs, then replaced with state ones — cheaper and, in my opinion, more powerful (GD883), transmission-Renk RK 335.
      The American company General Dynamics Land Systems, a division of General Dynamics, announced that it was selected to conclude a contract with the Israeli Ministry of Defense for armored personnel carriers Merkava.
      The tender procedure was carried out for the production of Merkava BTR enclosures, the supply of components and the assembly of the chassis. General Dynamics expects to complete contract negotiations by the end of this year
      1. Toit
        Toit April 28 2014 09: 04
        +14
        And why do it yourself if you buy cheaper?
        Moreover, let's not forget about the size of Israel, and we will not compare it with Russia
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 April 28 2014 09: 52
          +18
          Quote: Toit
          And why do it yourself if you buy cheaper?

          For Israel, see a separate price list. laughing Own production was always cheaper.
          And the size does not matter, all the more so when the Jewish diaspora dominates the governments of almost all the states of the world. And talking about global finance is generally unnecessary. hi
          1. Pimply
            Pimply April 28 2014 10: 05
            +1
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Own production was always cheaper.

            Why is that? Where did you get such fantasies? Sometimes it’s an order of magnitude more expensive to deploy an assembly line at home. Even in the USSR, which strove for maximum self-sufficiency, far from all purchased only in the country. For example, training aircraft.

            Quote: Ingvar 72
            And the size does not matter, all the more so when the Jewish diaspora dominates the governments of almost all the states of the world. And talking about global finance is generally unnecessary.

            ZOG does not let you sleep again? Oh well
            1. saturn.mmm
              saturn.mmm April 28 2014 11: 58
              +5
              Quote: Pimply
              Even in the USSR, which strove for maximum self-sufficiency, far from all purchased only in the country.

              Tooting.
              Quote: Pimply
              For example, training aircraft.

              Not the best example, Czechoslovakia was part of the CMEA countries and was integrated into the planned economy, here Finland, in my opinion, is a model.
              1. And Us Rat
                And Us Rat April 28 2014 15: 34
                +3
                Guardium is unarmed ...

                The author is cunning repeat
                (unfortunately without translation sad )

            2. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 April 28 2014 15: 03
              +8
              Quote: Pimply
              ZOG does not let you sleep again? Oh well

              But in fact? The fact that the world financial system is controlled by bankers of Jewish origin is a fact known even to children. And the highest officials of the states in sight, the family tree is easy to trace. So the ZOG is not so far from the truth. hi
              1. Pimply
                Pimply April 28 2014 15: 05
                -5
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                But in fact? The fact that the world financial system is controlled by bankers of Jewish origin is a fact known even to children. And the highest officials of the states in sight, the family tree is easy to trace. So the ZOG is not so far from the truth.

                And as always - scratched. ZOG around every corner.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 April 28 2014 15: 51
                  +3
                  Quote: Pimply
                  And as always - scratched. ZOG around every corner.

                  No, of course, the whole world is true democracy! laughing And the stork brings children! By the way, where do Jews come from? Is it also in cabbage? laughing
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply April 28 2014 17: 47
                    +2
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    No, of course, the whole world is true democracy! And the stork brings children! By the way, where do Jews come from? Is it also in cabbage?

                    No, it’s just that your ZOG rules the world and the Jews are to blame for all the troubles. It is disgusting to see this in the country that defeated Hitler. Hitler died, but his business lives in you.
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 April 28 2014 18: 42
                      +1
                      Quote: Pimply
                      Hitler died, but his business lives in you.

                      The business of Hitler is not in me, but rather the business of Henry Ford and Svyatoslav! With a touch of Grigory Klimov.laughing
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply April 28 2014 19: 33
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        The business of Hitler is not in me, but rather the business of Henry Ford and Svyatoslav! With a touch of Grigory Klimov.

                        Why are you running away from yet another spiritual teacher of yours?
                      2. Kassandra
                        Kassandra April 30 2014 15: 41
                        -1
                        because he really is yours.
            3. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat April 28 2014 15: 56
              +4
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              So the ZOG is not so far from the truth. hi

              Even if it is hypothetically assumed that the ZOG exists, it has nothing more in common with Israel than the pro-Western Russian aristocracy who fled in the 1917 from the revolution with modern Russia. request
              It's time to learn to think in detail, thoughtfully and analytically, riveting templates and stereotypes "off the shoulder" is the first sign of a lack of intellectual powers of gray matter, or extreme laziness in using it. request
            4. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat April 28 2014 16: 02
              +22
              The signal word "Israel" sounded at the forum again laughing

              1. teron
                teron April 28 2014 20: 50
                +4
                There is no beer, I drank everything yesterday, but the pistachios remained. Let's go on.
          2. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I April 28 2014 18: 38
            +4
            Quote: Pimply
            For example, training aircraft.

            I think that training planes (and something else) were bought not out of urgent need, but at the request of "allied friends" to "maintain the pants" of their aviation industry (and other "prom")
            1. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 19: 33
              +1
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              I think that training planes (and something else) were bought not out of urgent need, but at the request of "allied friends" to "maintain the pants" of their aviation industry (and other "prom")

              Purchased because it is unprofitable to keep the line of everything. Industry is overheating.
            2. Logos
              Logos April 30 2014 17: 31
              +2
              When Russia / USSR sells planes to Arabs, it does them a great favor. When she buys planes from Czechs - she does them a great favor

              Enough is enough, huh? If it’s easier for you to think that a great and noble Russia behaves generously and humanely among the lazy and dirty scum surrounding it, then console yourself with it, but not in public
              1. Kassandra
                Kassandra April 30 2014 18: 20
                0
                or maybe not?
                she didn’t do the favor to the Arabs, because otherwise the Arabs would have learned to do them themselves, as Iran now knows how.

                Russia / USSR calmly traded with the Poles (landing ships), Czechs, and dates.
    2. Professor
      April 28 2014 09: 08
      +4
      Quote: mirag2
      The American company General Dynamics Land Systems, a division of General Dynamics, announced that it was selected to conclude a contract with the Israeli Ministry of Defense for armored personnel carriers Merkava.
      The tender procedure was carried out for the production of Merkava BTR enclosures, the supply of components and the assembly of the chassis. General Dynamics expects to complete contract negotiations by the end of this year

      Can a half-truth be called the truth? wink

      The decision to produce Namer in the United States was made with only one purpose - to use the allocated $ 3 billion in US aid for their purchase for the needs of the Tsakhal.
      1. aleks 62
        aleks 62 April 28 2014 16: 24
        +8
        ... In principle, the professor plus article .... Popularly familiarized with the achievements of the defense industry .... Almost nothing new ... All equipment is tailored to the local specifics (dome, etc.). The practical operation of submarines with an air-independent system is doubtful (the very principle of the formation of this very air-independence ... I consider it a dead end, the more Germans helped). The Trophy system is beautiful in advertising, but how in real conditions ???? Moreover, such systems already exist not only on the Merkavas ..... I liked the uninhabited patrol car ... But then again, under the local specifics .... In general, the Jews are brilliant people (as I always thought, your nickname confirms this ) ....
        1. postman
          postman April 28 2014 17: 53
          +2
          Quote: aleks 62
          Almost nothing new ... All the equipment is tailored to the local specifics (dome, etc.).

          Well, in principle, Israel, is not going to become a world gendarme (like the United States), and does not claim to be the North Pole.
          1. max702
            max702 April 28 2014 20: 19
            +2
            Dear, Israel is not a gendarme, but a puppeteer .. Although there have been hints lately that the "fathers of the nation" have decided to cover up this project .. we'll live to see ..
        2. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 17: 55
          +5
          Quote: aleks 62
          The practical operation of submarines with an air-independent system is questionable (the very principle of the formation of this air-independence itself ... I consider it a dead end, the more the Germans helped).

          Listen, what are the questions there? This system among the non-nuclear is now the most popular in the world. The Germans rivet them like hot cakes.
          Quote: aleks 62
          The Trophy system on advertising is beautiful, but how in real conditions ????

          In real conditions, as a result of two shots at tanks from Trophy, missiles are twice reflected. Since then, they no longer fired.
        3. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I April 28 2014 18: 53
          +1
          Quote: aleks 62
          . The system Trophy on advertising is beautiful, but in real conditions ???? Moreover, such

          Trophy, Trophy .... these Trophy were given to you! As it turned out, I was developing a similar Trophy in grade 10 after getting acquainted with the first projects of tank KAZ. Everything was like in Trophy: radars, infrared sensors, control system, fragmentation and "multinuclear" submunitions based on mines directional action. And you are "Trophy, Trophy".
          1. Pimply
            Pimply April 28 2014 19: 34
            +3
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Trophy, Trophy .... these Trophy were given to you! As it turned out, I was developing a similar Trophy in grade 10 after getting acquainted with the first projects of tank KAZ. Everything was like in Trophy: radars, infrared sensors, control system, fragmentation and "multinuclear" submunitions based on mines directional action. And you are "Trophy, Trophy".

            Wonderful. Is your system somewhere, mass-produced?
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I April 29 2014 04: 27
              +3
              Quote: Pimply
              Wonderful. Is your system somewhere, mass-produced?

              So we are peaceful people! I was doing this to train technical thinking. But as time passed, it turned out that some of my technical ideas of that period were far from being "fantasy", because. they were actually embodied in different years, by different people (firms), in different countries. But, naturally, I didn’t get any fame or money.
              1. Bayonet
                Bayonet April 30 2014 21: 35
                +1
                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                I did this for training technical thinking

                I started inventing while still sitting on a pot in a kindergarten. And interestingly, many of my ideas were also really embodied in different years, by different people, in different countries. But, naturally, like you, I did not get either fame or money. So colleague, you are not alone!
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Kassandra
                  Kassandra 1 May 2014 01: 16
                  0
                  and such children from kindergarten begin to be selected more ... or to identify, not their own, usually - they kill.

                  The arena worked in the USSR. the trophy is licked from her.
              2. Pimply
                Pimply April 30 2014 23: 41
                -3
                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                So we are peaceful people! I was doing this to train technical thinking. But as time passed, it turned out that some of my technical ideas of that period were far from being "fantasy", because. they were actually embodied in different years, by different people (firms), in different countries. But, naturally, I didn’t get any fame or money.

                And I came up with a spaceship. But where is he? Damn it
                1. Nikolaevich I
                  Nikolaevich I 4 May 2014 18: 33
                  +2
                  Quote: Pimply
                  And I came up with a spaceship. But where is he? Damn it

                  Yes, and I am about this: where is my super KAZ? Shit-take it.
          2. Bayonet
            Bayonet April 30 2014 21: 29
            0
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            like "Trophy I in 10th grade" developed "

            Well, how did it work out?
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 4 May 2014 18: 29
              +1
              Quote: Bayonet
              Well, how did it work out?

              Well, I liked it. What can I say about it! So I once "improved" the "Arena" - I assure you: it's too early to write off the "Arena"!
        4. The Art of War
          The Art of War April 30 2014 21: 03
          0
          Professor of course burdock but the equipment with him))))))))
    3. Beck
      Beck April 28 2014 10: 02
      +13
      Quote: mirag2
      From memory: the engines for Merkava were first German MTUs, then replaced with state ones — cheaper and, in my opinion, more powerful (GD883)


      That's what these envious cheap reproaches are for.

      By and large, who cares what engine is on the Merkava. For opponents destroyed by Merkava OU, NO difference. What if the engine is German, then the tank ceases to be Israeli?

      In any country, when creating new equipment, they try to use the latest world developments or their analogues. What, on Russian technology, at the moment, are not components and components of leading foreign firms? They stand.

      So why bullshit bullshit?
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 28 2014 10: 07
        +10
        Quote: Beck
        So why bullshit bullshit?

        Because srachny srach. The word Israel flashed - and activity began. SchA still minusers wake up 8))
        1. Beck
          Beck April 28 2014 10: 21
          +4
          Quote: Pimply
          Because srachny srach.


          And at the same time they completely forget that France is building Mistrals for Russia.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply April 28 2014 10: 32
            +1
            Quote: Beck
            And at the same time they completely forget that France is building Mistrals for Russia.

            And in their own eyes they don’t even notice the logs ...
            1. Kassandra
              Kassandra April 30 2014 16: 21
              0
              Well grandmas need to be washed. It’s more difficult to build a nuclear submarine and the Russian Federation laughing
              1. atalef
                atalef April 30 2014 21: 50
                0
                Quote: Kassandra
                Well grandmas need to be washed. It’s more difficult to build a nuclear submarine and the Russian Federation

                So purchasing an Israeli UAV is just washing the attendants. belay
                1. Kassandra
                  Kassandra 1 May 2014 01: 01
                  0
                  Well! does Israel have its own ISS segment? or maybe at least a module?
          2. CHILD
            CHILD April 30 2014 12: 36
            +1
            ... well, for the very necessary "Mistrals" there are special people, whom to honor .... the French with money, but we would have a shovel, but alas, they dodged the award of the grateful people))))) and so why did they stop to the Jews, let them develop , why are you sorry or something ... I somehow hardly imagine the Jewish occupation corps in our open spaces ... they usually act in other ways ...))))
            1. Kassandra
              Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 43
              0
              go to any police department, Ivanushka, they will put a bottle there for you
              and there are other three-letter offices. and the courts, which are the most "humane" in the world.
          3. Kassandra
            Kassandra April 30 2014 15: 44
            0
            Well grandmas need to be washed. It’s more difficult to build a nuclear submarine, and the Russian Federation can handle this itself.
      2. mirag2
        mirag2 April 28 2014 22: 02
        0
        What is the sickness?
        Is THIS a lie?
        MSA, Trophy-local, something else ...
      3. Bayonet
        Bayonet April 30 2014 21: 55
        0
        Quote: Beck
        By and large, who cares what engine is on Merkava

        For fans of reproaches, I want to remind you which engines are on well-known domestic LIAZ buses.
        LIAZ 5292 - Scania.
        LIAZ 6213.20 and 52927 - MAN.
        LIAZ 5256 and 6212 - Caterpillar.
        LIAZ 6213.70 - Cammins.
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 1 May 2014 16: 08
          0
          But what about this at KAMAZ?
        2. Kassandra
          Kassandra 1 May 2014 16: 09
          0
          At KAMAZ, how about this?
    4. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat April 28 2014 15: 46
      +5
      Quote: mirag2
      From memory: the engines for Merkava were first German MTUs, then replaced with state ones — cheaper and, in my opinion, more powerful (GD883), transmission-Renk RK 335.

      Licensed production at IMI factories, recently, part of the contracts was thrown over the hill exclusively for financial reasons.
      By the way, we also assemble jet engines under license - there is a production chain and capacities, and this is not the first ten years.
      For example, the J79 engine was used on purchased in 1969 year Israeli American fighter McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II, along with a license for the production of J79 in Israel.
      1. aleks 62
        aleks 62 April 28 2014 16: 27
        +1
        ... mention Mig-21 ...
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat April 28 2014 20: 07
          0
          Quote: aleks 62
          ... mention Mig-21 ...

          What exactly? what
  2. Professor
    April 28 2014 09: 06
    +5
    Quote: Horst78
    Professor, where in Israel do submarines do? Probably in the shipyards of Germany, and FOR FREE laughing

    And where is it written here that they are made in Israel? By the way, "free" has already ended.
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 April 28 2014 09: 15
      +5
      Quote: Professor
      By the way, "free" has already ended.

      Seriously? Do not you think that the defense of Israel will weaken because of this?
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 28 2014 09: 45
        +3
        Quote: Horst78
        Seriously? Do not you think that the defense of Israel will weaken because of this?

        It's so easy to jerk, right? A smart question, it's harder to ask
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 April 28 2014 09: 53
          +12
          Quote: Pimply
          A smart question, it's harder to ask

          Eugene, when you ask smart questions, you start talking about a violation of the rules of the site and the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation! laughing
          1. Pimply
            Pimply April 28 2014 10: 10
            +2
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Eugene, when you ask smart questions, you start talking about a violation of the rules of the site and the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation!

            That is, manifestations of your own manifestations of xenophobia and anti-Semitism do you call smart questions? 8)) Well, well, it's funny. Then they say something else about the malicious anti-Semitism of the bad, disgusting Bandera 8))) The farther, the funnier, forgive me
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 April 28 2014 14: 57
              +4
              Quote: Pimply
              That is, manifestations of your own manifestations of xenophobia and anti-Semitism do you call smart questions? 8)) Well, well, it's funny.

              Do you consider the discussion of the essence of the Jewish attitude towards other peoples as xenophobia and anti-Semitism? To quote your own politicians and writers, it is the Jews who need to be “cured” of xenophobia. Stalin did this by Article 58.
              Quote: Pimply
              Then something else is said about the malicious anti-Semitism of the bad, disgusting Bandera

              Something is not audible Israeli reaction to Bandera anti-Semitism. Is it because the juntas for the most part are your compatriots? hi
              1. Pimply
                Pimply April 28 2014 15: 03
                +4
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Do you consider the discussion of the essence of the Jewish attitude towards other peoples as xenophobia and anti-Semitism? To quote your own politicians and writers, it is the Jews who need to be “cured” of xenophobia. Stalin did this by Article 58.

                I believe that the format of anti-Semitism that you prefer goes beyond the discussion and is a violation of the laws of the Russian Federation.
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Something is not audible Israeli reaction to Bandera anti-Semitism.

                But is he active at this stage and is there? I see him more here on the forum. For example, from you. Here you are personally disgusting to me.
                1. Kassandra
                  Kassandra April 30 2014 15: 51
                  +1
                  Valeria Ilinichna, and bad Jews do not exist at all, right? In Israeli and conscientious prisons, some Arabs sit
                  google at least: Uzlaner, "Fenya speaking Yiddish."
              2. Ptah
                Ptah April 28 2014 22: 35
                +1
                Greetings, Igor. hi
                Still not convinced of the essence of these ... dei ...?
                Of course, I was convinced ... I am sure!
                You believe some, you try to justify at least something to them ....
                And in response
                Quote: Pimply
                For example, from you. Here you are personally disgusting to me.

                .....
                .....
                Is this not a "violation of the rules" (in the <offensive> section), in our opinion, but for the "pimples" it is a way of reminding them of their "national holiday".
                Lyceum ... Eternal lyceum ...
                Disgusting and ridiculous in their obsession ...
              3. Kassandra
                Kassandra April 30 2014 15: 48
                -1
                Israelis and Jews are far from the same thing, and from ancient times.
            2. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I April 29 2014 04: 43
              +3
              Quote: Pimply
              That is, manifestations of your own manifestations of xenophobia and anti-Semitism do you call smart questions? 8)) Well, well, funny. Then they say something else about malicious anti-Semitism are bad.

              Interestingly, the girls are dancing .... So, when you "hear": "the Jews are bad" is anti-Semitism, and when Jews in their home circle or in a cafe with friends discuss: "how tired these dirty damned Arabs" is patriotism. Or all of you so "soft and fluffy" that you have no demonstrations or rallies with slogans like "Down with the Arabs!"
            3. Kassandra
              Kassandra April 30 2014 15: 47
              -1
              that is, when it doesn’t get free, is it already anti-Semitism? laughing laughing laughing
        2. Horst78
          Horst78 April 28 2014 10: 31
          +4
          Quote: Pimply
          A smart question, it's harder to ask

          Yes, please.
          When did the Israeli army fight an equal adversary?
          When did the Israeli army win without betrayal by the enemy and pressure on him by the us?
          How many billions were donated to the Israeli army in the form of military equipment and ammunition?
          1. Professor
            April 28 2014 10: 37
            +16
            Quote: Horst78
            When did the Israeli army fight an equal adversary?
            When did the Israeli army win without betrayal by the enemy and pressure on him by the us?
            How many billions were donated to the Israeli army in the form of military equipment and ammunition?

            Never. Always fought with superior enemy forces.
            Tales of betrayal leave for an alternative story.
            AOI began to receive billions after 1967 and received them less than enemies. Not a single foreign soldier has ever fought for Israel, which cannot be said about the Arabs.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 10: 56
              +7
              Quote: Professor
              AOI began to receive billions after 1967 and received them less than enemies. Not a single foreign soldier has ever fought for Israel, which cannot be said about the Arabs.

              Israel received the first really large amount of aid in the year 1969
              1. Kassandra
                Kassandra April 30 2014 15: 54
                0
                in 1947-48 from Stalin through Czechoslovakia, it seems
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. revnagan
                revnagan April 28 2014 16: 30
                +11
                Quote: antibanukuraza
                Jews have always been traitors and they will remain.

                And not ashamed? How many Jews fought with the Red Army for our common homeland, how many of them surrendered and became traitors?
                Quote: antibanukuraza
                They were disgusting and always will remain so.

                Arguing in this way, you are no different from the followers of Bandera and Schicklgrubera. What have the Jews to do with it? ZIONISM is what is unacceptable. Ideology justifying ANY deeds of the "chosen" people.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply April 28 2014 18: 25
                  +1
                  Quote: revnagan
                  ZIONISM is what is unacceptable. An ideology that justifies ANY deeds of the "chosen" people.

                  Give a definition of Zionism, please. And then you have fantasies - like in a rustic outhouse of one unpleasant substance
                  Quote: revnagan
                  Schicklgruber

                  Hitler never bore the surname Schicklgruber. This surname (Austrian, Schicklgruber) was borne at one time by the father of Adolf Hitler, who bore the surname of his single mother until 1876, when Johann Nepomuk Guettler recognized his fatherhood, recorded by mistake as Hitler. (Adolf Hitler himself, born in 1889, never bore the name Shiklgruber.
                2. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi April 28 2014 18: 29
                  +4
                  Quote: revnagan
                  ZIONISM is what is unacceptable. An ideology that justifies ANY deeds of the "chosen" people.

                  Oooooooo !! Well, where do you get this from? There is no desire to swear. But explain where such crap comes out of?
                  1. saturn.mmm
                    saturn.mmm April 28 2014 21: 57
                    +4
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    Well, where do you get this from? There is no desire to swear. But explain where such crap comes out of?

                    Such propaganda was in the USSR. The idea of ​​Zionism among many people of the former USSR is somewhat distorted, some Israelis, not quite understanding this, react painfully to such statements.
                  2. their
                    their April 28 2014 22: 58
                    0
                    Zionism before the court of history

                3. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 April 28 2014 18: 53
                  -8
                  Quote: revnagan
                  How many Jews fought with the Red Army for our common homeland, how many of them surrendered and became traitors?

                  A little bit of fantasy and imagination: imagine that Hitler would not have been an ideological inspirer of persecution of Jews, how would they (Jews) behave in war?
                  Quote: revnagan
                  Reasoning like this, you are no different from the followers of Bandera and Schicklgruber

                  Yes, you protect them, trying to remain impartial, and you are lower there for your attempt and rinsed. laughing I read somewhere - do not do good to a Jew, you will not receive evil either. hi
                  1. revnagan
                    revnagan April 28 2014 19: 24
                    +2
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    I read somewhere - do not do good to a Jew, you will not receive evil either.

                    Maybe Hitler's? denied as a whole. In my life I had to deal with Jews, study, communicate, these are good people, often the attitude towards them is biased. A simple example, in Soviet times, I looked at a rare book at the Soyuzpechat kiosk at that time. But I have no money with me. Hold the saleswoman until I run home. An hour later I returned and bought. And the Jewish saleswoman, the mother of my classmate. She could not wait, or take it for herself and resell (ours would probably do that). And this is not one such case. I repeat, these are the same people as everyone else.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply April 28 2014 19: 36
                      +1
                      Quote: revnagan
                      Maybe Hitler's? denied as a whole. In my life I had to deal with Jews, study, communicate, these are good people, often the attitude towards them is biased. A simple example, in Soviet times, I looked at a rare book at the Soyuzpechat kiosk at that time. But I have no money with me. Hold the saleswoman until I run home. An hour later I returned and bought. And the Jewish saleswoman, the mother of my classmate. She could not wait, or take it for herself and resell (ours would probably do that). And this is not one such case. I repeat, these are the same people as everyone else.


                      I am always touched by ignorance. Pick up all sorts of nonsense, and then try to shine with this "knowledge", flaunting their illiteracy.
                    2. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 April 28 2014 20: 36
                      -2
                      Quote: revnagan
                      Maybe Hitler ?.

                      Not my idol. I adhere to the Stalinist methods more - get it, get it, regardless of the nation. It just so happened that they mostly messed up ... um.
                      Quote: revnagan
                      And this is not one such case. I repeat, these are the same people as everyone else.

                      I can’t row all under one comb, but each nationality has its own exceptional features. The features of Jews (as well as some other nationalities) are traced historically, although there are not a few good people among them.
                4. wanderer
                  wanderer April 28 2014 23: 16
                  +3
                  Leave these stamps about Zionism already. The only idea of ​​Zionism is to gather Jews near Mount Zion. Then the Messiah will come. Everything else is nonsense.
                  1. Ptah
                    Ptah April 28 2014 23: 51
                    0
                    Quote: wanderer
                    The only idea of ​​Zionism is to gather Jews near Mount Zion. Then the Messiah will come.

                    Only in this case - I am a ZIONIST !!!!!!!
                    Orthodox Zionist?!?!
                    Get ready already. From all over the planet. You are called to this. Your "spiritual leaders" and "right-radicals" of ALL COUNTRIES !!!
                    Otherwise, you are ENEMIES ... Enemies of cultures. Enemies of religions.
                    Not Jews, but Jews. "Your father is a DIAVOL" (c) / quote /.
                    But, having adopted another religion is no longer a Jew? They say that to you? And this is chauvinism. Not the racial one that you hate so much and are trying to eradicate by mixing ALL nations, and not national, but CONFESSIONAL.
                    Or a holiday ...... (?)

                    According to the Bible - "Before the End I will gather my people" (c).
                    Those. it will happen. And who wants to bring their end closer? Only in one case - when everything has already reached, or the desire to end all ...
                    With me ..
                    Are all nations universal policeman suicides?
                    No.
                    By bringing your "reign" closer, calling on the "king" of your Moshiach, you are bringing closer your END, and therefore the whole world.
                    With Mosiah, there will be no life on the planet. Draw conclusions ...
                    1. Beck
                      Beck April 29 2014 00: 15
                      +2
                      Quote: Ptah
                      With Mosiah, there will be no life on the planet. Draw conclusions.


                      He gathered everything into a bunch of incomprehensible, vinaigrette from verbiage. You should be a cook for cold snacks.
                    2. Ptah
                      Ptah April 29 2014 00: 53
                      -1
                      All gathered in a bunch of incomprehensible

                      Therefore, the "bek" singled out for himself what was most acceptable for a replica. With the rest, as I understand it, I agree unconditionally.
                      Quote: Beck
                      for cold appetizers.

                      Nah ... "On cold" is trite. Let the Mediterranean be scared.
                      I’m a baking specialist. I mean - near the stove. To the rising dough on a shovel and IN THE FURNACE ...
                      And why is it on your part such excitement ... Really from ...
                    3. Beck
                      Beck April 29 2014 07: 19
                      +1
                      Quote: Ptah
                      And why is it on your part such excitement.


                      What kind of excitement? Nothing. Just a set of unrelated phrases obscures the meaning of what was said.

                      And why would I agree with such a set, I'm a normal person.

                      And in your oven you want the chago pegs, the louse is vigorous. Tokmo to the light of God, do not expose your squabble, fear God, do not take sin upon your soul. In the nook of your hut you’ll get your own little ones, admire yourself. Mozhe and imbued with her worthlessness.
                    4. Kassandra
                      Kassandra April 30 2014 16: 01
                      -1
                      Just a bunch of unrelated phrases obscure the meaning

                      maybe someone just doesn’t have enough capacity? it is if at best.
              2. Kassandra
                Kassandra April 30 2014 16: 00
                0
                the quote was told to specific people
      2. aleks 62
        aleks 62 April 28 2014 16: 29
        +4
        .... You would have to make peace with them and live in peace for everyone ... Israel is a beautiful country ... I personally was very impressed ...
      3. Nonik
        Nonik April 28 2014 23: 25
        -2
        Quote: Professor
        Never. Always fought with superior enemy forces.
        Minor correction: with mediocre superior opponents. With mediocre Arabs, mediocre commanders. There was a recent article. And even then these mediocre Arabs almost won, simply because of the quantity.
        But we must certainly pay tribute to the Israeli army, thanks to the competent actions of which it was possible to turn the battle in our favor. But if there was a sophisticated and well-trained American army or a German one? This is what is meant by "equal adversary."
        1. Pimply
          Pimply April 29 2014 02: 45
          +1
          Quote: NoNick
          Minor correction: with mediocre superior opponents. With mediocre Arabs, mediocre commanders. There was a recent article. And even then these mediocre Arabs almost won, simply because of the quantity.

          Would respect the Doomsday War, for example
      4. Kassandra
        Kassandra April 30 2014 15: 53
        -1
        for Israeli citizenship are fighting from the Russian Federation even now.
        and you yourself, like Moshe Dayan with his battle order of the red star, were born and raised in Israel too? laughing laughing laughing
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet April 30 2014 22: 16
          -1
          Quote: Kassandra
          Moshe Dayan with his battle order of the red star

          Moshe Dayan was awarded the Order of the Fighting Red Banner. By personal participation, with his own machine-gun fire, he kept an important section of the bridgehead, while destroying the enemy’s manpower and showing personal courage, heroism and high combat training.
          1. Professor
            April 30 2014 22: 31
            +1
            Quote: Bayonet
            Moshe Dayan was awarded the Order of the Fighting Red Banner. By personal participation, with his own machine-gun fire, he kept an important section of the bridgehead, while destroying the enemy’s manpower and showing personal courage, heroism and high combat training.

            You forgot about the company of German tanks which he held back 47 hours, and alone and with one eye ... wink
            1. Bayonet
              Bayonet 1 May 2014 09: 25
              0
              I didn’t hear about tanks.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply April 30 2014 23: 46
            0
            Quote: Bayonet
            Moshe Dayan was awarded the Order of the Fighting Red Banner. By personal participation, with his own machine-gun fire, he kept an important section of the bridgehead, while destroying the enemy’s manpower and showing personal courage, heroism and high combat training.

            EPRST. Weller’s book is called LEGENDS of Nevsky Prospect. LEGENDS!
            During the war, Dayan participated in sabotage operations in Syria and Lebanon. From foreign awards he has - the "Order of Distinguished Service" British
            1. Kassandra
              Kassandra 3 May 2014 06: 17
              0
              the order of the red star was his favorite bully
              and they also say "the legendary cruiser Aurora", EPRST.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 10: 55
      +4
      Quote: Horst78
      When did the Israeli army fight an equal adversary?
      When did the Israeli army win without betrayal by the enemy and pressure on him by the us?
      How many billions were donated to the Israeli army in the form of military equipment and ammunition?

      1948-th - 8 superior in armament and number of armies
      1956-th - superior in size and armament to the Egyptian army
      1967-th - 5 superior in number and armament of armies
      1967-1970-th - 2 superior in size and armament of the army with the active support and participation of military advisers of the USSR
      1973-th - 4 superior in size and armament of the army
      1982-th - equal in armament and superior in number to the Syrian army, as well as armed units of the PLO

      A specific enough answer?
      1. beard999
        beard999 April 28 2014 17: 09
        +4
        Quote: Pimply
        A specific enough answer?

        Israel, of course, repeatedly fought against a very strong enemy. However, why did you include the 1982 war on this list? There were no more than 20 thousand militants of the PLO, the Syrian contingent was not more than 30 thousand. The IDF group operating in Lebanon - 90 thousand people. Even by your logic of reasoning, the superiority was on the side of the Israelis.
        And further. Is the enemy’s strength solely in the number of soldiers and weapons? I already once gave you a detailed analysis of what constituted, in particular, the Syrian air defense group in 1982. There was nothing modern there. And no help by advisers, the situation with obsolete weapons can not be corrected. And in general, I must say, all your wars are very specific. The same one, a well-studied enemy, actions on the same well-known theater of war, always without separation from the rear located exclusively on its territory. Very short-term military operations: 1956 - 9 days, 1967 - 6 days, 1973 - 18 days, 1982 - 3 days (direct battles with the regular Syrian army). Yes, and you fought, not always, face to face with the Arabs. In 1956, you were supported by Great Britain and France, in 1973 and 1982 by the United States (you must admit, such countries are not weak, militarily ...).

        As for the topic of the article, the list of the professor, who you undertook to defend so eagerly, looks extremely strange, by any means. All of the weapons listed are long known, and there is nothing exclusively Israeli of those listed. For example, combat robots Sd.Kfz.302 / 303, the Germans, massively, as early as 1943 used near Kursk. For several decades, radars for reconnaissance of ground targets have been in service with many countries of the world (unfortunately, it is not possible to compare them with Windshield radars, since the characteristics of the latter are modestly hushed up ...). The Soviet 1030M Drozd is considered to be the first serial KAZ in the world (in 1982, it successfully passed the GI and was officially adopted for operation in 1983). The first missile defense systems in the USSR and the USA were deployed back in the 60s. last century. As for the submarines, I recommend that you ask whose boat this is in fact at some German profile forum. Fuck there who agrees with you that "Dolphin" is an Israeli diesel-electric submarine.
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 April 28 2014 17: 37
          +2
          Quote: beard999
          There was nothing modern there. And no help by advisers, the situation with obsolete weapons can not be corrected. And in general, I must say, all your wars are very specific. One the same, well-studied enemy, actions on the same well-known theater of operations,

          I can’t understand what you’re driving towards. The same can probably be said about the Russo-Turkish wars: the Turks regularly received help from England and Lule from us. On the very same theater of war. There is probably a psychological factor
          1. beard999
            beard999 April 28 2014 22: 31
            +1
            Quote: Pilat2009
            I can’t understand what you’re driving at.

            And besides, “strong opponents” they are the same different. The Arab armies were a serious adversary for Israel. But this does not at all compare, for example, with the strength of Hitler Germany with the allies who opposed the USSR.
            Quote: Pilat2009
            about the Russo-Turkish wars: the Turks regularly received help from England and Lyuli from us. on the same theater

            At one time, the Turks were one of the strongest world powers. In the center of Europe, wars were fought. Russia conducted 12 wars with the Turks and contributed quite a bit to the fact that after the First World War, Turkey turned into a third-rate country that did not pretend to anything, even at the regional level.
            And we fought with the Turks in different theater of operations - in the Caucasus, Russia, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova, Turkey itself ...
        2. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 19: 00
          +3
          Quote: beard999
          Israel, of course, repeatedly fought against a very strong enemy. However, why did you include the 1982 war on this list? There were no more than 20 thousand militants of the PLO, the Syrian contingent was not more than 30 thousand. The IDF group operating in Lebanon - 90 thousand people. Even by your logic of reasoning, the superiority was on the side of the Israelis.

          I agree. Only the number of groupings in Lebanon was 76000.

          Quote: beard999
          And further. Is the enemy’s strength solely in the number of soldiers and weapons? I already once gave you a detailed analysis of what constituted, in particular, the air defense group of Syria in 1982.

          No. I agree too. It was during these years that, having received e-4th generation aircraft and putting Avaxa and UAV into service, Israel first gained a serious advantage over the enemy. Still not as radical as later, but nonetheless.

          Quote: beard999
          All of the weapons listed are long known, and there is nothing exclusively Israeli of those listed.

          Someone says what is? Have you read the title of the article or what is it about? IDF blog article on innovative weapons in the service of the Israel Defense Forces.

          Quote: beard999
          For example, combat robots Sd.Kfz.302 / 303, the Germans, massively, as early as 1943 used near Kursk.

          And the first firearm appeared several hundred years ago. But there is a slight difference between the musket and the machine gun, don’t you? A wedge that is remotely controlled by wire is slightly different from a standalone robot with an automatic obstacle detection function, don’t you?
          As for Windshield, there really is not enough data.
          I was unable to find normal reliable data on the serial production of "Drozd". Putting into service - yes. Serial release - no exact data.
          Quote: beard999
          The first missile defense systems in the USSR and the USA were deployed back in the 60s. last century.

          Again about muskets and machine guns. One thing in common - shoot. But there is a difference, don’t you?
          Quote: beard999
          As for the submarines, I recommend that you ask whose boat this is in fact at some German profile forum. Fuck there who agrees with you that "Dolphin" is an Israeli diesel-electric submarine.

          Once again - read the title of the article
          1. beard999
            beard999 April 28 2014 22: 33
            +2
            Quote: Pimply
            the number of groupings in Lebanon was 76000

            This is not important. My figures of 90 thousand are taken from Soviet / Russian sources, in particular from Volnov, with a reference, incidentally, to Eitan Rafael himself. Arabs say the same about 90 thousand IDF soldiers. Plus phalangists. So the numerical superiority in manpower and armament was definitely on the side of Israel. This is the main thing.
            Quote: Pimply
            Have you read the title of the article or what is it about?

            There are two words in the title, to which actually the questions arise - “the most innovative”. So what are the “most innovations”? There would be a headline, for example, “The IDF represents 5 modern weapons systems” and not any questions. The provocation (which, incidentally, is characteristic of the professor) is already in the title.
            Quote: Pimply
            But there is a difference, don’t you?

            I do not find. By the fact that innovation means a new product. In the weapons listed by the professor, there is absolutely nothing fundamentally new. That is the whole point. It is clear that both the German Goliath and the Israeli Guardium are ground-based robots. Naturally made with a difference of 70 years, with different technical perfection, but nevertheless both are robots. Missile defense systems perform the same functions - intercepting enemy missiles. Let it be of different classes, but nevertheless it is according to any missile defense system. And this will not change anything. Well, the fact that "Dolphin", is generally a German diesel-electric submarine, claim all directories from Jane's to Wiki ...
        3. Kassandra
          Kassandra April 30 2014 16: 14
          -1
          1948 - the creation of the state of Israel by actually Stalin. unmeasured weapons were sent and 250 specialists only from the General Staff of the SA, the hotel with the English headquarters was blown up by the same who the German headquarters in 1941 Kiev
          1956 - well, yes, he is the French and the British on the Israeli side, but forgot to count
          1967 - no qualitative superiority, all Arab planes are radarless, the Su-7 is also only bombed, without URO, 90% of the moments are defective trash that could not even be collected due to violation of tolerances,
          1967-70 - American assistance always went on, volunteers also + goyim mercenaries, US aerial reconnaissance SR-71 over Egypt,
          1973 - US emergency assistance, US Air Force identification marks barely had time to paint over
          1982 - threefold quantitative and at first qualitative superiority over
          Syrians. losses 1 to 3
          1883-84, when the Syrians first sold the slightly degraded, albeit exported MiG-23MLD with radars, the IDF received a starship, so NATO had to harness it in Lebanon and save non-Aryan blood (in 2006 it was the same).
      2. Kassandra
        Kassandra April 30 2014 16: 14
        +2
        1948 - the creation of the state of Israel by actually Stalin. unmeasured weapons were sent and 250 specialists only from the General Staff of the SA, the hotel with the English headquarters was blown up by the same who the German headquarters in 1941 Kiev
        1956 - the French and British on the Israeli side, however, forgot to count
        1967 - no qualitative superiority, all Arab planes are radarless, the Su-7 is also only bombed, without URO, 90% of the blinks are defective trash that could not even be collected due to violation of tolerances
        1967-70 - American assistance always went on, volunteers also + goyim mercenaries, US aerial reconnaissance SR-71 over Egypt,
        1973 - US emergency assistance, US Air Force identification marks barely had time to paint over
        1982 - threefold quantitative and at first qualitative superiority over
        Syrians. losses 1 to 3
        1883-84, when the Syrians first sold the slightly degraded, albeit exported MiG-23MLD with radars, the IDF received a starship, so NATO had to harness it in Lebanon and save non-Aryan blood (in 2006 it was the same).
    3. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat April 28 2014 16: 16
      +1
      Quote: Horst78
      Yes, please.
      When did the Israeli army fight an equal adversary?

      With an equal - never, with superior in numbers, resources and technology - regularly, yes, do not be surprised, Israel's technological superiority began to emerge only by 1990, before that there were no advantages in "high technologies", they won exclusively on bare motivation and dedication.
      You know that the cat wept for military awards, I somehow rummaged in the archives and realized that if we had the Russian award system - after each war, a quarter of our personnel could be safely given a "gold star".
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 28 2014 19: 03
        +3
        Quote: And Us Rat
        With an equal - never, with superior in numbers, resources and technology - regularly, yes, do not be surprised, Israel's technological superiority began to emerge only by 1990, before that there were no advantages in "high technologies", they won exclusively on bare motivation and dedication.

        I would say - from about 1979.
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat April 28 2014 20: 09
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          I would say - from about 1979.

          Since 1979, the process has just begun to emerge, it entered the juice just in the early 90s.
    4. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat April 28 2014 16: 19
      +7
      Quote: Horst78
      How many billions were donated to the Israeli army in the form of military equipment and ammunition?

      About 1 \ 20 from what was presented to the Arabs with the light hand of the CPSU Central Committee. laughing
  • Nayhas
    Nayhas April 28 2014 09: 26
    +5
    Quote: Horst78
    Professor, where in Israel do submarines do? Probably in the shipyards of Germany, and FOR FREE laughing

    So who prevents Russia from having such allies? Class hatred?
    1. Professor
      April 28 2014 09: 49
      +4
      Quote: Nayhas
      So who prevents Russia from having such allies? Class hatred?

      Is it about Germany and a free boat? Pride is probably a hindrance. wink
      1. velikoros-xnumx
        velikoros-xnumx April 28 2014 13: 00
        +6
        Quote: Professor
        Is it about Germany and a free boat? Pride is probably a hindrance.

        Hello professor. Often I ask myself the question - why does Israel receive payments in various forms from Germany for the very controversial 6 million Holocaust up to now. And at the same time, Russia for almost 30 million proved almost nothing but crumbs in the form of industrial equipment exported in the first post-war years as reparations. Enlighten if there is information on this issue.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Beck
            Beck April 28 2014 14: 14
            +6
            Quote: Pimply
            You know, you feel sick from bastards like you.


            Not a word, but the rules of the site do not allow more.

            This is who you need to be in order to confuse or intentionally distort the facts of human victims.

            The total loss figure in 2MW is about 50 million people. And the Jews of 6 million.

            But 44 million is the inevitable, fatal losses resulting from the brutal methods of warfare using the latest technologies of those years. No differences by nationality.

            And 6 million is a targeted genocide against one people with the aim of its complete extermination.

            If Nazism had won, all the surviving people would have continued to live. In one state or another, but would continue. The Nazi ideology did not provide for this for Jews - all Jews should have died, all the people and his ethnonym should have been erased from the pages of history.

            That is why the Nazis built, in addition to general concentration camps, purely Jewish camps intended solely and exclusively to destroy an entire nation.

            If someone, by virtue of his mental development, does not distinguish this, he is underdeveloped from birth. If someone does this intentionally, then for such people there are no suitable abusive or insulting words in all languages ​​of the World.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 14: 25
              +4
              Quote: Beck
              No differences in nationality.

              There were several more social and national groups that were actively exterminated. Homosexuals, insane, Slavs, gypsies, etc. The difference between the Jewish tragedy is that the task of the Jews was to destroy completely.
              By the way, the Chinese about 17 million were destroyed.
              1. Beck
                Beck April 28 2014 15: 32
                +3
                Quote: Pimply
                Homosexuals, insane, Slavs, gypsies, etc.


                Homosexuals - yes. Mentally ill - yes. Gypsies - yes. Slavs - no.

                Slavs like other not "Aryan" the fate of free labor in the new German living space of Eastern Europe was destined for the nations.

                And if the gypsies themselves do not really honor the memory of their victims (for various reasons), then why should this be required of the Jews. And the world remembers the victims of the Gypsies, but only the anti-Semites are trying to level the victims of the Jewish people.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply April 28 2014 19: 13
                  +2
                  Quote: Beck
                  Homosexuals - yes. Mentally ill - yes. Gypsies - yes. Slavs - no.

                  Slavs yes. There were many massacres, there were special insignia Although it was more as part of the whip policy and a certain gradation. So it is not known which is worse.
                  Initially, prisoners in the camps were divided into four groups: political opponents of the regime, representatives of the "lower races", criminals and "unreliable elements." The second group, including Roma and Jews, was subject to unconditional physical extermination and was kept in separate barracks.
                  1. Beck
                    Beck April 28 2014 19: 23
                    -1
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Slavs yes. There were many massacres, there were special insignia


                    The Nazis carried out massacres everywhere in France, and in Italy, and in other places, but this is not genocide. I'm talking about Nazi, state policy towards an entire nation.

                    And the Auschwitz concentration camp cannot be called a separate hut.

                    About 1 people, of whom about 400 were Jews, were killed in Auschwitz (Auschwitz) in 000-1. Auschwitz was the largest and most long-lived of the Nazi camps destruction, therefore, it has become one of the main symbols of the Holocaust.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply April 28 2014 19: 40
                      +1
                      Quote: Beck

                      The Nazis carried out massacres everywhere in France, and in Italy, and in other places, but this is not genocide. I'm talking about Nazi, state policy towards an entire nation.

                      Taking into account indirect losses during the years of World War II, from 2,5 to 3 and more million inhabitants of Belarus, about 3 million people died. A considerable part of them were Jews, but a considerable part were Slavs.
                2. velikoros-xnumx
                  velikoros-xnumx April 29 2014 15: 08
                  0
                  Quote: Beck
                  Slavs - no.

                  As I understand it, about 25 million dead Slavs do not count compared to even 6 million representatives of the chosen people. What does the ratio of the dead to the total number of specific people when it comes to the dead millions.
                  1. Beck
                    Beck April 29 2014 16: 45
                    +2
                    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
                    As I understand it, about 25 million dead Slavs do not count compared to even 6 million representatives of the chosen people.


                    That you do not count, and even on this page, some who lack the reasoning to do the analysis. Most on this page did not say that.

                    All victims of the war are tragic. The difference is one. The French, British, Poles, Russians, Kazakhs, Germans and others died as a result of military operations, bombing of cities, artillery shelling. The Nazis carefully searched for Jews in all the occupied territories - adults and old people, adolescents and infants. And all of them were sent to concentration camps for the total destruction of the entire people. Other nations, without exception, did not go for destruction, although they lived in the territories occupied by the Nazis.

                    That is why such extermination of Jews is determined by the word genocide. That is why the grief of the Jewish people is highlighted in a separate page in the tragic book of the victims of Nazism.

                    If you understand the above, then you will understand. Do not understand, continue to spread rot on the Jews. Hitler wanted to destroy them physically, you destroy morally.
                    1. Kassandra
                      Kassandra 1 May 2014 16: 19
                      -1
                      google 100.000 Jewish soldiers of Hitler
                      in the camps they did not feed the unemployed, the workers were released.
                      the unemployed did not receive assistance from abroad, unlike prisoners of war.
            2. aleks 62
              aleks 62 April 28 2014 16: 44
              +5
              ... Not only Jews ... Russians destroyed the same Germans and in an amount no less ....
              1. Pimply
                Pimply April 28 2014 19: 08
                +4
                Quote: aleks 62
                ... Not only Jews ... Russians destroyed the same Germans and in an amount no less ..

                No one says that the Germans did not destroy Russian. Very active. But this was not part of an active policy of destruction. The Germans wanted to enslave the Slavs, but the Jews were intended specifically for extermination. As a percentage, a third of the nation was destroyed. That is the tragedy.
                1. Kassandra
                  Kassandra April 29 2014 20: 47
                  -2
                  not "very active" but much more than anyone else, and many times more than all the others put together.
            3. oblako
              oblako April 28 2014 19: 02
              +2
              ABOUT! Taki aroused! I really like the Jewish people, a Belarusian sister, a nephew and grandchildren live in Israel, God bless them. And without any humiliation or insult, I still don’t understand that the Holocaust is only a Jewish disaster. Fuck it all! This is a crime against all of humanity. And the suffering of 6 million Jews is no different from the suffering of the 20 million Slavs who died (I can’t vouch for the number, of course, maybe more), if only in quantity ... The war in the east, according to Hitler, is a war to destroy ... like Jews ... Exalting their nation and omitting other Jews, they do not become better and they know this, because it is in this that the Fuhrer’s business lives ... A survival tool? Nu-nu ... This is not the end of the story. And the brothers must survive!
            4. oblako
              oblako April 28 2014 19: 02
              0
              ABOUT! Taki aroused! I really like the Jewish people, a Belarusian sister, a nephew and grandchildren live in Israel, God bless them. And without any humiliation or insult, I still don’t understand that the Holocaust is only a Jewish disaster. Fuck it all! This is a crime against all of humanity. And the suffering of 6 million Jews is no different from the suffering of the 20 million Slavs who died (I can’t vouch for the number, of course, maybe more), if only in quantity ... The war in the east, according to Hitler, is a war to destroy ... like Jews ... Exalting their nation and omitting other Jews, they do not become better and they know this, because it is in this that the Fuhrer’s business lives ... A survival tool? Nu-nu ... This is not the end of the story. And the brothers must survive!
            5. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I April 29 2014 05: 25
              +5
              Quote: Beck
              The total loss figure in 2MW is about 50 million people. And the Jews of 6 million.

              But 44 million is the inevitable, fatal losses resulting from the brutal methods of warfare using the latest technologies of those years. No differences by nationality.

              And 6 million is a targeted genocide against one people with the aim of its complete extermination.

              Gosha! This means that 20 million Soviet people (civilian population) out of 44 million were destroyed "by accident"; "inevitable fatal losses" (that is, the forest is being cut down, chips are flying)? And the fascist regime of Germany did not set as the main task the purposeful destruction of the Slavic peoples? And the "God-chosen" people should not be touched by anyone? Why, he is "chosen by God!" The fact that 44 million were destroyed is "garbage"; these are not Jews! And 6 million Jews are genocide for all genocides! What is this? The sprouts of the racial theory of the world superiority of the Jews? And is there a stone's throw to Jewish fascism? In general, you became not interesting to me and I no longer intend to pay attention to your comments.
              1. Beck
                Beck April 29 2014 08: 00
                +1
                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                This means that 20 million Soviet people (civilian population) out of 44 million were killed "by accident"; "inevitable fatal losses


                What to distort. All dead victims of war. But only the Nazis meticulously collected Jews from all occupied territories to send them to specialized camps for complete destruction as a people. The vast majority of Jews did not die on the battlefield, not from bombing, not from military operations, but in concentration camp furnaces. This is the only difference.

                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                What's this? Sprouts of the racial theory of world superiority of the Jews? And there is a stone's throw to Jewish fascism?


                This, your words, is the result of a low level of development of thinking, which stopped at the bar of the terrible "Great Russian" chauvinism.

                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                In general, you have become uninteresting to me and I no longer intend to pay attention to your comments.


                Such a statement only confirms the low level.

                IT IS NECESSARY, HE WILL NOT PAY ATTENTION. Vaughn in the corner on the icon of GOD, Vaughn THRESHOLD. WALK IN THE COLD AND FAR. I DO NOT ATTENT FROM YOURSELF EVEN THE ACCESS ON THE BACK.
                1. velikoros-xnumx
                  velikoros-xnumx April 29 2014 15: 43
                  0
                  Quote: Beck
                  "Great Russian" chauvinism.

                  What does Great Russian chauvinism not suit you ???
                  Honored only the Great Jewish ???
                  Denying Russian the right to be proud of their people and their country ???
                  What the fuck ... I’m generally on a site registered in the Russian domain, where the majority of forum users are Russians, where for the most part the issues of the Russian defense industry are discussed.
                  1. Beck
                    Beck April 29 2014 17: 13
                    +3
                    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
                    Honored only the Great Jewish ???


                    And where did you find "great Jewish" chauvinism? Did you compose it yourself or what kind of waste paper did you read in the dump?

                    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
                    What does Great Russian chauvinism not suit you ???


                    I’m not that great, any chauvinism doesn’t suit me. Because chauvinism automatically, by default, disconnects the people of the planet. The chauvinist already knowingly defines other nations worse than his own. That is, it divides people by race and nationality. Kazakh chauvinist considers the Persian below himself. Russian chauvinist considers the Pole below himself. Romanian chauvinist considers Russian below himself. Chauvinism in modern conditions is one of the moments of tension in the world.

                    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
                    Denying Russian the right to be proud of their people and their country ???


                    Russia A great country, along with China, the USA, England, India, etc. And the Russian people have something to be proud of. And its history, and its culture, and its science. But this is for real Russian people. You are not Russian, you chauvinist.

                    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
                    What the x ... I'm generally on a site registered in the Russian domain


                    Yoma-yo, I forgot to ask you. The site is Russian, but technically or whatever, is provided by international organizations. When the site admins hang a banner at the entrance - Only for Russians, then it will be clear. But they can’t handle this, by default, the site should be visited by as many people as possible.

                    And chauvinists of all stripes in a bunch.

                    All of you would be bound into one and merged into one.
                    And in the Caspian Lake to drown you all.
                    Sprinkle half a gram of sugar on the tongue.
                    And on the neck of the pebbles and in the lake cunt ... to.

                    You in the middle of this conglomerate.
              2. zavesa01
                zavesa01 April 29 2014 19: 32
                +1
                Remember the bombing of Dresden. How many PEACEFUL Germans died and no genocide. American concentration camps and everything is fine. Only the poor Jews. One word offended.
            6. velikoros-xnumx
              velikoros-xnumx April 29 2014 15: 00
              +1
              Quote: Beck
              If Nazism had won, all the surviving people would have continued to live. In one state or another, but would continue. The Nazi ideology did not provide for this for Jews - all Jews should have died, the whole nation and its ethnonym should have been erased from the pages of history.

              I dare to remind your great moral lordship that it was planned to leave no more than 20 million Russians for hard work, which is about 10% of Russian people. So, the same genocide was planned against the Russians as against the Jews, with one difference - our grandfathers did not allow it to be fully realized, and this, as I understand it, is our "fault".
              1. Beck
                Beck April 29 2014 17: 30
                +2
                Quote: velikoros-xnumx
                I dare to remind


                So you're still a little dirty trick, in addition. I launched five spam emails.

                Yes. There is no mind, no honor, no morality, no morality, no decency.

                You live only chauvinistic instincts - chemo and phototaxis. Come on, have fun people, good-humored.
                1. velikoros-xnumx
                  velikoros-xnumx April 29 2014 21: 23
                  0
                  Quote: Beck
                  So you're still a little dirty trick, in addition. I launched five spam emails.

                  I don’t know what goals you are pursuing, voicing this nonsense about spam and stuff, it sounds cheap and small, and what you write about
                  Yes. No mind, no honor, no morality, no morality, decency not
                  fully suits you.
                  First, understand the problem and be sure of its source, and then blame it. For what is written in the message, you can be seriously beaten in the face, only therefore people like you do this while sitting in front of the monitor. In order to pronounce such a thing in person, the interlocutor needs to have some courage, and so ... you wear the Y chromosome in the genome by mistake, nature likes to joke sometimes.
                  1. Beck
                    Beck April 29 2014 21: 37
                    0
                    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
                    I don’t know what goals you are pursuing, voicing this nonsense about spam


                    Well, your messages are in the spam folder. If, that I apologize to the visitors of the page, and you just note.

                    The rest about you remains in the Force.
                    1. Kassandra
                      Kassandra April 29 2014 21: 56
                      0
                      See how she turns against you.
                  2. Kassandra
                    Kassandra April 29 2014 22: 01
                    0
                    no, it’s just not necessary in the face, No. on the very chromosome you usually need, well, you understand bully
              2. zavesa01
                zavesa01 April 29 2014 19: 34
                0
                In general, the fascists were hunting Bashkir.
              3. Kassandra
                Kassandra April 29 2014 20: 43
                0
                no, the fault is that morality is just higher. Indeed...
                the war was actually staged by the "Rothschilds", nurtured Hitler and Germany as best they could, then surrendering several small states in a row sent the aggression of this demoniac to the East.
                they now have exactly the same plans - Eastern Jewry and Jewish crossbreeds with Slavs are considered to be second-rate. this is no joke.
          2. antibanukurayza
            antibanukurayza April 28 2014 16: 04
            -4
            Why then is Israel pursuing a fascist policy towards Palestine? Why is Israel pursuing a Goebbel genocide policy against Muslims and Christians in Palestine? Maybe it's time to remind the Jews about the Holocaust? Drive them again through this?
            1. Beck
              Beck April 28 2014 16: 22
              +2
              Quote: antibanukuraza
              Why then is Israel pursuing a fascist policy towards Palestine? Why is Israel pursuing a Goebbel genocide policy against Muslims and Christians in Palestine? Maybe it's time to remind the Jews about the Holocaust? Drive them again through this?


              Are you all right with the thyroid gland? Maybe she should be treated?

              I mean, the lack of thyroid hormones produced by the thyroid gland causes deviations in physical development. Yes, God bless him, with physical development. Lack of thyroid hormones due to iodine and selenium deficiency causes deviations in the central nervous system. And these deviations, in medicine, are called cretinism.

              You can take iodine and selenium preparations. May be helpful if not too late.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 19: 06
              +1
              Quote: antibanukuraza
              Why then is Israel pursuing a fascist policy towards Palestine? Why is Israel pursuing a Goebbel genocide policy against Muslims and Christians in Palestine? Maybe it's time to remind the Jews about the Holocaust? Drive them again through this?

              Give the definition of the word genocide. And also, for the sake of interest, can you give statistics of victims for the last 60 years of the conflict?
          3. aleks 62
            aleks 62 April 28 2014 16: 41
            +2
            .... Do not you think that 30 million. those killed by the good German people are worth a little more than the figures given ... You can cite as a counter argument the cost of the goods left when the USSR troops were withdrawn from the German Democratic Republic (at the time when the German unification was) ... I dare to remind you that Germany has continued to pay indemnity to some countries still for the FIRST world ...
            1. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 April 28 2014 18: 00
              +4
              Quote: aleks 62
              abandoned goods during the withdrawal of Soviet troops from the GDR

              By the way, Germany agreed to pay for the unification and withdrawal of troops — there is a big question for Gorbachev and Shevarnadze
            2. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 19: 15
              +2
              Quote: aleks 62
              .... Do not you think that 30 million. those killed by the good German people are somewhat more than the figures quoted ...

              I don’t think at all that the number of people killed can be measured in money or numbers.
              Quote: aleks 62
              You can cite as a argument the value of the goods left when the USSR troops were withdrawn from the GDR (at the time when the German unification was) ...

              But all that happened was the decisions of the USSR. Why are claims made against Jews?
              1. Kassandra
                Kassandra 1 May 2014 16: 21
                0
                were there only Russians in the political bureau? wassat
          4. velikoros-xnumx
            velikoros-xnumx April 29 2014 12: 43
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            You know, you feel sick from bastards like you.

            Be careful with the expressions used. I just expressed doubt about the figure, not the fact. Indirectly, these doubts are intensified after the reactions of various Jewish departments to the slightest doubt in the numbers and attempts to conduct an independent investigation periodically raised by various experts and researchers. What is the difficulty, they want to turn over the archives - a flag in hand (after all, there is nothing to hide), but no, all these actions run into powerful opposition, often with insults from the most "tolerant", which is actually demonstrated here by people like you. If you want to investigate and calculate the losses of the USSR based on various documents - for God's sake, you are welcome, and even thank you (we definitely have nothing to hide, 27 million or 29 million will not change the essence). And then the "sacred cow", a closed topic from what ???
            1. Kassandra
              Kassandra 1 May 2014 16: 23
              0
              it is pregnant. for some reason this is not temporary sad
        2. Professor
          April 28 2014 14: 00
          +6
          Quote: velikoros-xnumx
          Often I ask myself the question - why does Israel receive payments in various forms from Germany for the very controversial 6 million Holocaust up to now.

          You see, neither for Germany nor for Israel, these 6 million are not disputed for a minute. The names of 4 million victims were collected. I can throw the link.
          By the way, today in Israel is the Holocaust Victim Day ...

          Quote: velikoros-xnumx
          And at the same time, Russia for almost 30 million proved almost nothing in the form of industrial equipment exported in the first post-war years as reparations.

          The Soviet Union removed everything it could from East Germany and not only industrial equipment, took the "Kaliningrad Region" for itself? What time do you rate it? As for payments to specific citizens, the USSR did not allow Germany to do this, and Germany began to pay compensation only with the collapse of the USSR and pays to this day.

          PS
          The USSR proudly abandoned the Marshall plan ...
          1. antibanukurayza
            antibanukurayza April 28 2014 16: 07
            .
            Celebrate Holocaust Victims Day and celebrate Holocaust in Palestine?
            1. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 19: 16
              +3
              Quote: antibanukuraza
              Celebrate Holocaust Victims Day and celebrate Holocaust in Palestine?

              Give a definition of the term Holocaust?
          2. revnagan
            revnagan April 28 2014 16: 42
            0
            Quote: Professor
            The Soviet Union removed everything it could from East Germany and not only industrial equipment, took the "Kaliningrad Region" for itself?

            And nothing that the Nazis, when retreating from the occupied territories in the USSR, used the tactics of "scorched earth"? That is, Nazi Germany took out everything she could from the occupied territory, down to people and black soil (and not only industrial equipment), and everything else is simple Totally destroyed. How and in what equivalent can you evaluate the blown up monuments and the shot millions of civilians? Burned together with the population of the village? No, Stalin acted too softly with Germany. "for several hundred years. And to compare it with Israel's occupation of Arab territories is at least incorrect.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 19: 15
              +4
              Quote: revnagan
              And nothing that the Nazis, when retreating from the occupied territories in the USSR, used the "scorched earth" tactics?

              Someone says that the USSR did wrong in this case?
          3. aleks 62
            aleks 62 April 28 2014 16: 48
            +2
            .... Dear ... Comparison with the Kaliningrad region is a little inappropriate .... So to speak, we will reach Palestine (halved in 48 g. To mine) ... So what ... Let us recall a piece of Mexico - the beginning 20th century (Wait states of New Mexico, etc.)
            1. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 19: 16
              0
              Quote: aleks 62
              we will reach Palestine (we halved it in 48 g. to mine).

              More details?
          4. postman
            postman April 28 2014 18: 05
            +6
            Quote: Professor

            The Soviet Union removed everything it could from East Germany and not only industrial equipment, took the "Kaliningrad Region" for itself?

            I’ll add to the peak (I will inform):
            1. The USA lost 405 in the Second World War, neither the territory nor the industry was damaged (well, there the ships were flooded)
            2. Reparations: Great Britain and the USA - 8 billion dollars;
            3.Gold stock of Germany, Norway, well, there are all sorts of Czech Republic, etc.
            4. Decisions of the Yalta and Potsdam conferences on the reparations of the USSR from the western zones of Germany by the Western powers were not fully implemented
            5. What really took the USA out of Germany?
            I know everything Werner, but Gelena? Finished FAA -2,1, and production cycles, tanks and guns, SAM, submarines, heavy water, graphite, etc., etc.
            ==========================
            USSR: 2,5 trillion rubles of direct losses plus 3 trillion of military expenses and indirect losses from the fact that the color of the nation has been torn off productive labor for four years.
            The Allies were surprised when Stalin abandoned the share of gold reserves and banking assets of the Third Reich, saying that the USSR prefers to receive reparations exclusively in kind, and indicated a relatively modest amount of claims - $ 10 billion.
            Quote: Professor
            The USSR proudly abandoned the Marshall plan ...

            But they wouldn’t give it anyway.
            =========================================================== ===
            And the Jewish question and compensation ...
            Well, the Jews of the world and Izrail are repeating and proving genocide a lot and persistently. They demand and receive
            For some reason our "modestly" is silent
          5. Straus_zloy
            Straus_zloy April 28 2014 20: 12
            -4
            By the way, today in Israel is the Holocaust Victim Day ...

            And in a very timely manner, an Israeli photographer published a collage with Hitler and a Soviet military cap. When he was informed of the error, he said that he simply did not find the Nazi cap and refused to delete his "work":

            http://www.newsru.co.il/israel/28apr2014/ilan_501.html



            Personally, whose grandfathers went through the whole war, it offends me extremely
            This is what happens if the lowered are given the opportunity to create their own state, only because they are lowered.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 20: 34
              +7
              Quote: Straus_zloy
              Personally, whose grandfathers went through the whole war, it offends me extremely
              This is what happens if the lowered are given the opportunity to create their own state, only because they are lowered.

              It does not offend you alone. The photographer has already removed this picture. and ignoramuses are found everywhere and in any nation.
              1. Tourist Breakfast
                Tourist Breakfast April 28 2014 20: 59
                +7
                It does not offend you alone. The photographer has already removed this picture. and ignoramuses are found everywhere and in any nation.

                Do you really need to make excuses for every idiot?
                1. Kassandra
                  Kassandra 1 May 2014 16: 24
                  0
                  now are you for him?
            2. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat April 29 2014 04: 42
              +4
              Quote: Straus_zloy
              This is what happens if the lowered are given the opportunity to create their own state, only because they are lowered.

              This is what happens if the lowered ones are given the opportunity to freely express their opinion am
          6. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm April 28 2014 23: 00
            +3
            Quote: Professor
            The Soviet Union removed from East Germany everything that could and not only industrial equipment

            Anglo-Americans cleared even worse. Leaving behind these cities. The German city of Wesel, northwest of Germany. (cry)
            1. Professor
              April 29 2014 08: 56
              +4
              Quote: saturn.mmm
              Anglo-Americans cleared even worse. Leaving behind these cities. The German city of Wesel, northwest of Germany. (cry)

              1. The Americans did not touch German industry. When he lived in Germany, the Germans told me that during the bombing, they were hiding in factories.
              2. He took the USSR out and did the right thing, but it's not worth denying it or saying "and they took out more".
              Two examples. My father in the squadron in ZakVO had a 200l barrel with the Wehrmacht logo. On the railway from Leninakan to Sevan, there is still a swastika on the power line mounts.
              1. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm April 29 2014 09: 23
                +4
                Quote: Professor
                The Americans did not touch German industry. When he lived in Germany, the Germans told me that during the bombing, they were hiding in factories.

                Then what was the point of bombing, bombing sleeping areas, bombers were distant, not front-line, didn’t chase tanks?
                Quote: Professor
                He took the USSR out and did the right thing, but it is not worth denying it or saying "and they took out more".

                In no case do I deny that the USSR exported, worked at the factory in my youth, there were heavy presses with a German eagle and the swastika was cut off, the Americans took everything they needed, they did not ask the Germans.
                1. Professor
                  April 29 2014 09: 32
                  +4
                  Quote: saturn.mmm
                  Then what was the point of bombing, bombing sleeping areas, bombers were distant, not front-line, didn’t chase tanks?

                  The sleeping quarters, such as Hamburg or Dresden, were bombed, but the main blow came from communications. Without communications, products cannot be taken out of enterprises. Who is threatened by the tank at the factory? In addition, I suspect that pragmatic Americans were already planning a post-war settlement of Europe.

                  Quote: saturn.mmm
                  In no case do I deny that the USSR exported, worked at the factory in my youth, there were heavy presses with a German eagle and the swastika was cut off, the Americans took everything they needed, they did not ask the Germans.

                  The Americans practically did not take out the equipment. Moreover, they restored post-war Germany.
                  At ChSZ are still Krupp press on which the sheets of the aircraft carrier’s hull bent.
                  1. Kassandra
                    Kassandra April 29 2014 20: 25
                    +1
                    but wasn’t it easier to bomb the bridges?
                    1. Professor
                      April 29 2014 20: 45
                      +2
                      Quote: Kassandra
                      but wasn’t it easier to bomb the bridges?

                      Bridges also bombed, but mostly transport hubs such as in Frankfurt.

                      Quote: Kassandra
                      not a single German will still get a job in any English company, in an American, like NAZA - please.

                      Do not tell tales. The Germans work in both American and English firms.

                      Quote: Kassandra
                      they also drove into the Reich strategic materials without which it would have ended a couple of years earlier.

                      That's for sure. The last tavarnyak proceeded to Germany from the USSR on the morning of June 22nd of the 41st.
                    2. Kassandra
                      Kassandra 1 May 2014 16: 29
                      0
                      the bridge even survived Dresden as far as I remember.

                      no do not work.

                      No, we were mistaken - there was a schedule of Standard Oil tankers traveling from the USA directly (or via Brazil) to Spain, which were not drowned by German submariners.
                2. saturn.mmm
                  saturn.mmm April 29 2014 21: 13
                  +1
                  Quote: Professor
                  The Americans practically did not take out the equipment.

                  I say, they took out everything that they needed, their territory was not defeated.
                  Quote: Professor
                  Moreover, they restored post-war Germany.

                  It seems yes, but a very difficult question. Germans do not like Americans more than Russians if you lived there.
                  1. Professor
                    April 29 2014 21: 19
                    +2
                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    I say, they took out everything that they needed, their territory was not defeated.

                    On the contrary, they brought equipment, machine tools, etc.

                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    Germans do not like Americans more than Russians if you lived there.

                    In general, the Germans do not like very much, they tolerate, yes, they love, no. IMHO Russians do not like more, they call them "rusish .........". request
                  2. saturn.mmm
                    saturn.mmm April 30 2014 10: 51
                    +1
                    Quote: Professor
                    In general, the Germans do not really love whom they suffer, yes, they love, no. IMHO do not like Russian more.

                    Quote: Professor
                    call them "rusish .........".

                    When the Hans are angry, they call everyone "........", they have such a curse, this is how we use obscenities, you should know if you lived there.
                    Quote: Professor
                    On the contrary, they brought equipment, machine tools, etc.

                    Some of the American virtues are just a small part.
                    The results of research in industry and in all public and even private research institutions were withdrawn from their owners and were calculated not by the number of pages, but by the number of tons. As stated by the Wright Field Central American Research Station (Ohio), “by far the most significant collection of secret scientific documents” with a total weight of 1,5 tons was taken out of Germany. Having analyzed all the materials captured and implemented many ideas, the American experts contained in them, by their own admission, "advanced American science and technology for years, and in some cases a whole decade ahead."
                    Materials about secret military inventions, which until recently were only a few dozen, now constitute an accumulation of acts totaling up to 750 thousand. In order for new German scientific concepts to find the corresponding English terms, it would be necessary to compile a new German-English dictionary of special words, which included about 40 thousand new technical and scientific terms
                  3. Professor
                    April 30 2014 11: 07
                    +4
                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    When the Hans are angry, they call everyone "........", they have such a curse, this is how we use obscenities, you should know if you lived there.

                    No, this idiom almost always sounds in the combination of these two words. Other curses are often used. The word Shaise sounds more often than others.

                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    Some of the American virtues are just a small part.

                    That's right, some specialists and documentation were exported, but absolutely everything was not taken out, including telegraph poles and electric transmission lines. Of course, the Americans did not help and do not help anyone just like that or if you want for free. Marshall's plan greatly helped Europe and Japan, and the Americans did not miss their profits. Nevertheless, the fact of such assistance is undeniable.
                  4. Kassandra
                    Kassandra April 30 2014 11: 58
                    +2
                    and black earth from Germany to Ukraine by trains also exported these cunning Russian Russians?

                    the population in the eastern zone of occupation was not starved by hunger, and in the western zone the tractor cost 4 kg of oil, and 4,7 million Germans died out
                  5. saturn.mmm
                    saturn.mmm April 30 2014 21: 19
                    +1
                    Quote: Professor
                    No, this idiom almost always sounds in the combination of these two words.

                    Usually they swear like this:
                    -Du blödes Schwein.
                    - Bullenschwein
                    - Alte Sau
                    But the sharpest thing about them is probably:
                    - Fieses Miststück.
                    You didn’t accidentally turn over in Galle?
                    Quote: Professor
                    That's right, some specialists and documentation were exported, but absolutely everything was not taken out, including telegraph poles and electric transmission lines.

                    What pillars, they bombed everything there, along with the British.
                    Removal of coins and bullion from precious metals, as well as foreign banknotes Bulletin of the Control Council No. 1, pp. 8-19
                    Seizure of industrial equipment, other equipment and merchant ships (Paris Agreement of January 14, 1946, art. 1 category "B"). In the substantiation of the law on reparation damages of February 12, 1969 (printed edition of the Bundestag V / 2432 of December 23, 1967, p. 67 next), reparation and restorative damage in the territory of the Federation is estimated at a total of 4,782 billion RM (according to the rate of 1938)
                    The Germans are in a British prison.
                  6. Professor
                    April 30 2014 21: 37
                    +3
                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    You didn’t accidentally turn over in Galle?

                    Frankfurt, Ulm

                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    What pillars, they bombed everything there, along with the British.

                    Not all. Factories tried not to touch.

                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    The Germans are in a British prison.

                    And what's this? I would not have taken them prisoner at all.
                  7. saturn.mmm
                    saturn.mmm April 30 2014 23: 49
                    +1
                    Quote: Professor
                    Frankfurt, Ulm

                    Halle drove like that, there were a lot of your emigrants from Odessa, so I thought it was a sinful thing, maybe? And then they brought Caucasians there, the Germans began such fun.
                    Quote: Professor
                    Not all. Factories tried not to touch

                    C'mon, I exaggerated a bit.
                    Quote: Professor
                    And this is what?

                    Humanism, democracy. These are not wild Russians.
                    Quote: Professor
                    I would not have taken them prisoner at all.

                    You are by no means a member of "Nokmim"
                  8. The comment was deleted.
                  9. Professor
                    1 May 2014 08: 04
                    +2
                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    Halle drove like that, there were a lot of your emigrants from Odessa, so I thought it was a sinful thing, maybe? And then they brought Caucasians there, the Germans began such fun.

                    Actually, I’m not from Odessa, I lived there very little, but my mother’s relatives are from near Zhlobin.

                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    Humanism, democracy. These are not wild Russians.

                    The graves of captured Germans are scattered throughout the USSR. I personally saw them even in Armenia, but after Khatyn and Babi Yar I would not have taken them prisoner.
                  10. saturn.mmm
                    saturn.mmm 1 May 2014 10: 06
                    0
                    Quote: Professor
                    Actually, I’m not from Odessa, I lived there very little, but my mother’s relatives are from near Zhlobin.

                    You once said that you worked in Nikolaev (maybe I’m confusing a little), and this is not far from Odessa. Zhlobin is 100 km from me. By our standards, this is not far.
                    Quote: Professor
                    The graves of captured Germans are scattered throughout the USSR.

                    The hypocrisy of the West disturbs me somewhat.
                    Quote: Professor
                    but after Khatyn and Babi Yar, I would not have taken them prisoner.

                    364 people were burned in the village, twice as many as in Khatyn (near the village the partisans derailed the train). But still, I believe that everyone has the right to a court.
                  11. Professor
                    1 May 2014 10: 51
                    +2
                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    You once said that you worked in Nikolaev (maybe I’m confusing a little), and this is not far from Odessa.

                    Nikolaev is a completely different matter. laughing

                    Zhlobin is 100 km from me. By our standards, it is not far

                    My grandfather partisan in those parts, returned disabled.

                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    But still, I believe that everyone has the right to a trial.

                    Each peopleThey are not people.
                  12. Kassandra
                    Kassandra 1 May 2014 13: 31
                    +1
                    I mean they didn’t come from monkeys?
        3. Kassandra
          Kassandra 1 May 2014 17: 22
          -1
          Do you learn German here for free?
    2. Kassandra
      Kassandra April 30 2014 11: 55
      0
      Untermenshi, Kule - but they know how to lie exactly the opposite
    3. Kassandra
      Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 04
      +1
      at least 800.000 patents they .. have been issued at once. in the sense - requisitioned
      German intelligence and the "Germanophiles" by the way did the same airplane secretly in the USSR before the war, and the original was destroyed.
  • Kassandra
    Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 01
    +1
    those who call it so learned to learn only 100 years ago
    just watch a movie with Jean Reno and Monsieur Weem
  • Kassandra
    Kassandra April 29 2014 20: 24
    +2
    there’s nothing more in the murder of the civilian population — the Russians, having occupied Dresden, would not have done so.
    then in the western zone of occupation 4,7 million Germans were starved to death.
    not a single German will still get a job in any English company, in an American, like NAZA - please.
  • Kassandra
    Kassandra April 29 2014 20: 29
    +1
    "right" - the war was going mainly in the East, and it needed weapons, ammunition and ammunition that were made at these very factories.
    they also drove into the Reich strategic materials without which it would have ended a couple of years earlier.
  • velikoros-xnumx
    velikoros-xnumx April 29 2014 14: 11
    0
    Quote: Professor
    By the way, today in Israel is the Holocaust Victim Day ...

    I apologize for such an unfortunate coincidence in the dates of the day of mourning and the topic raised.
  • Bayonet
    Bayonet April 30 2014 22: 23
    0
    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
    okromya crumbs in the form of industrial equipment,

    Well, at the expense of "crumbs", you are wrong.
  • Horst78
    Horst78 April 28 2014 10: 33
    +2
    Quote: Nayhas
    So who prevents Russia from having such allies?

    I won’t be a scream here like many about who are allies of Russia. Without me there are enough patriots.
    Quote: Nayhas
    Class hatred?

    But how to understand this? what
    1. Timeout
      Timeout April 28 2014 10: 58
      +5
      Quote: Horst78
      But how to understand this? what

      And this, as always, Nayras comrade crossed across the furrow.
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas April 28 2014 12: 49
        +1
        Quote: Timeout
        And this, as always, Nayras comrade crossed across the furrow.

        Thank you, that's just all up to ... well, you understand ... like a rhyme ...
    2. Nayhas
      Nayhas April 28 2014 12: 47
      +14
      Quote: Horst78
      But how to understand this?

      After 1991 Russia has not found a normal ally who could share its "secrets". Although many neutral states in Europe could well do this. For money, of course, but why not. Yes, the same Germany is a storehouse of knowledge and it would be quite possible to come to an agreement with them, but no, we defeated it, how can we ... I used to assume that this is pride, they say, "we ourselves with a mustache", but in recent years I realized what exactly hatred ... Grafted of course, but still hatred. We are made to hate whatever is best. Europe is "gayrope" for us, and the Americans are "pennies" and we are eagerly awaiting their "inevitable death" no matter what ... As if they are to blame that instead of roads we have a minefield, and the higher the official , the more reason to hang it on a bitch ... Why class hatred? Yes, because our standard of living is lower than in Poland, not to mention Germany or Switzerland, respectively, hatred acquires the very component on which the communists played when they came to power.
      1. Kus Imak
        Kus Imak April 28 2014 15: 43
        +4
        Quote: Nayhas
        Quote: Horst78
        But how to understand this?

        After 1991 Russia has not found a normal ally who could share its "secrets". Although many neutral states in Europe could well do this. For money, of course, but why not. Yes, the same Germany is a storehouse of knowledge and it would be quite possible to come to an agreement with them, but no, we defeated it, how can we ... I used to assume that this is pride, they say, "we ourselves with a mustache", but in recent years I realized what exactly hatred ... Grafted of course, but still hatred. We are made to hate whatever is best. Europe is "gayrope" for us, and the Americans are "pennies" and we are eagerly awaiting their "inevitable death" no matter what ... As if they are to blame that instead of roads we have a minefield, and the higher the official , the more reason to hang it on a bitch ... Why class hatred? Yes, because our standard of living is lower than in Poland, not to mention Germany or Switzerland, respectively, hatred acquires the very component on which the communists played when they came to power.


        You are really smart and courageous person. I respect those.
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 10
          +2
          actually, on the contrary, he froze Uinyu.
          brains flow from where to? That's also the secrets they produce.
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 April 28 2014 21: 56
        +3
        Quote: Nayhas
        Why is class hatred? Yes, because our standard of living is lower than in Poland, not to mention Germany or Switzerland

        You’re wrong, comrade. For simple people, they’ll put a deep grip on Europe. How can you hate a mosquito?
        There can be even more hatred in the Poles than among us, an ever-offended people, for having received lyuley from Catherine and Stalin. And they will always do harm.
        I have no complaints against Switzerland at all.
        There is no reason to love the Germans, given their antics in the war. The French are generally darling. The Baltic dwarf, with attempts at greatness, recoup during the years of cohabitation ... England won’t harm my whole life.
        The problem is that they do not want to leave us alone, they want to live by their own rules
      3. teron
        teron April 28 2014 22: 05
        +4
        Earlier I assumed that this is pride, they say, "we ourselves with a mustache," but in recent years I realized that it was hatred ... Grafted, of course, but still hatred. We are made to hate whatever is best.

        I apologize wildly, but didn’t you find the end of the 80s, the beginning of the 90s? Do not remember how everyone wanted to Europe, America? Boiled water defecated throughout the import. What about neutral countries in Europe? As soon as they slowly began to get to their feet, they immediately saw their neutrality towards Russia.
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 13
          0
          hating defecated?
          1. teron
            teron April 30 2014 20: 52
            +1
            In the early 90s, I did not hear anything negative about the West from anyone other than my grandfather, a war veteran. Everything was somehow quite naive. Now I remember - I wonder.
            1. Kassandra
              Kassandra 1 May 2014 00: 45
              0
              Seniors need to listen!
      4. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm April 28 2014 23: 29
        +5
        Quote: Nayhas
        Europe is "gayropa" for us, while the Americans are "pennies" and we are eagerly awaiting their "imminent death" no matter what.

        What would the Americans sit in their America, I would not care, 1000 years of their life. But the fact that they are almost almost in my house, in every hole a plug, is somewhat annoying.
        What was there in the 90s? There were many friends. Or have you already forgotten?
        Quote: Nayhas
        Although many neutral states in Europe could have done that.

        They would like yes who will allow them.
      5. Kassandra
        Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 08
        +1
        What are you talking about? who should share with whom laughing
        from Russia not only secrets, but the brains that these secrets "produce" are constantly exported.
      6. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank April 30 2014 19: 51
        +1
        In my opinion, comrade hated envy?
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra April 30 2014 20: 00
          0
          now Americans envy "Russians", and for a long time
  • Pimply
    Pimply April 28 2014 09: 44
    +3
    Quote: Horst78
    Professor, where in Israel do submarines do? Probably in the shipyards of Germany, and FOR FREE

    To begin with - would you read at least something about this contract. Of the Xnumx Dolphin submarines, the first two were free. They became free for a very specific reason - after the war in 6, when Saddam fired at Israel, the extent of cooperation between German companies and Iraq, bypassing a number of sanctions, became clear. A scandal erupted, against which the German government decided to finance the construction of two boats, and half pay another. Israel bought the next three boats at some discount. But they were by no means free.

    Secondly, the boats for Israel were built according to 2-m special modified projects, which have been made many changes compared to the base. Israeli defense firms actively participated in the development of these projects and in equipping boats with equipment.
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 April 28 2014 10: 41
      +5
      Quote: Pimply
      To begin with - would you read at least something about this contract. Of the Xnumx Dolphin submarines, the first two were free. They became free for a very specific reason - after the war in 6, when Saddam fired at Israel, the extent of cooperation between German companies and Iraq, bypassing a number of sanctions, became clear. A scandal erupted, against which the German government decided to finance the construction of two boats, and half pay another. Israel bought the next three boats at some discount. But they were by no means free.

      But this is interesting belay
      after the war in the 1991 year, when Saddam fired on Israel, found out the scope cooperation of German companies with Iraq, bypassing a number of sanctions. A scandal erupted, against which The German government decided to finance the construction of two boats, and half pay another.
      but what does Israel have to do with it. If sanctions were violated, Germany should have been accountable to the international community. So Israel continued its policy milkingGermany is just under another occasion.
      Quote: Pimply
      Israeli defense firms actively participated in the development of these projects and in equipping boats with equipment.

      Any self-respecting customer will require specifications and equipment for themselves. The fact that Israeli firms took part does not justify the inclusion of these submarines in the Israeli industry. After all, they even left the model name to their relatives.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 28 2014 11: 20
        0
        Quote: Horst78
        but what does Israel have to do with it. If sanctions were violated, Germany should have been accountable to the international community. So Israel continued its milking policy for Germany only on a different occasion.

        With that. The topic was quite sensitive, due to the active extermination by Germany of Jews during the Second World War. It turned out that German firms, bypassing sanctions, provided active assistance to Saddam in the development of chemical missile weapons. Which, in general, is not very good, especially given Saddam’s statements that Israel must be burned and given the active shelling of Israel as a result of the 1991 war. Demonstrations took place and Kohl, in order to somehow smooth out the situation, approved this package of military assistance. It is worth considering that in this case, the ending Cold War played a role (Kohl wanted to support his own shipyards).

        Quote: Horst78
        Any self-respecting customer will require specifications and equipment for themselves. The fact that Israeli firms took part does not justify the inclusion of these submarines in the Israeli industry. After all, they even left the model name to their relatives.

        The question is the extent of this participation. There is when they do it "for you", and there is when the contractor does it according to your project with the integration of your systems. There is a difference.

        I am applying drawings here. Lower is the new Dolphin.

        The presence of VNEU (AIP) is the main difference between the new Dolphins and the previous ones.

        VNEU will be German, similar to those on Type-212 and Type-214 - fuel cells with a proton exchange membrane, BZM120, manufactured by HDW / Siemens.

        Among other things, Rafael Torbuster traps and Rafael Sea-Com communication systems are installed.

        Old Dolphin is actually a prototype of 212. Differences: lack of ECG and nasal rudders on the body instead of wheelhouse.
        The New Dolphin is an old Dolphin elongated by 11 with ECG according to the 214 scheme.

        209 and 214 have a two-deck scheme and cruciform rudders, Dolphin and 212 have a three-deck scheme and X-shaped rudders.

        You can see the difference in the Israeli versions of the boats yourself. Strong enough differences, don't you find?
        1. Horst78
          Horst78 April 28 2014 14: 45
          0
          How not to offend
          With that. The topic was quite sensitive, due to the active extermination by Germany of Jews during the Second World War.
          how many centuries Jews will milk the Germans on this issue. Maybe they, too, should I demand a helicopter for capturing my grandfather?
          1. Pimply
            Pimply April 28 2014 14: 55
            +3
            Quote: Horst78
            how many centuries Jews will milk the Germans on this issue. Maybe they, too, should I demand a helicopter for capturing my grandfather?

            Give it a try. The USSR signed a waiver of personal claims for personal preferences for citizens.
            1. Horst78
              Horst78 April 28 2014 16: 09
              -4
              Quote: Pimply
              Try it.

              Thank you, but I have a different upbringing and genes. hi
              1. Pimply
                Pimply April 28 2014 19: 20
                +4
                Quote: Horst78
                Thank you, but I have a different upbringing and genes.

                Yes Yes. Germany, after the collapse of the USSR, made and is making payments on the territory of the former USSR, if you are not aware.

                Amounts paid to former prisoners

                For former prisoners of concentration camps - at 7669 euro

                Prisoners of other places of forced detention equivalent to concentration camps (not included in the list of concentration camps, adopted by the German law on compensation of 1968), - for 3067 euros

                Forced labor in industry - at 2147 Euro

                Forced labor in agriculture - at 766 euro

                For children who were deported with their parents - in the amount of 70% of payments to parents

                Jews and Gypsies hiding in the occupied territory - 1533 euro

                Prisoners of the camp "Ozarichi" on the territory of Belarus - 2147 euros each

                Relatives can also receive compensation. But on certain conditions
                1. Horst78
                  Horst78 April 29 2014 04: 34
                  +1
                  That is exactly the payments were address (thanks, I knew about it), and not all sucked.
              2. Kus Imak
                Kus Imak April 29 2014 09: 25
                +2
                Quote: Horst78
                Quote: Pimply
                Try it.

                Thank you, but I have a different upbringing and genes. hi

                It can be seen. Nick took in honor of Horst Ludwig Wessel
                1. Horst78
                  Horst78 April 30 2014 09: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Kus Imak
                  It can be seen. Nick took in honor of Horst Ludwig Wessel

                  HA HA HA laughing are there any smarter thoughts? For reference: the nickname was chosen based on the character of the old Swedish detective. There, a fitter from Switzerland was named Horst. So I recommend that you clean your brains fool
            2. Kassandra
              Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 21
              0
              Well, the USSR is no more (or not yet), and citizens could change their minds! laughing
          2. Kassandra
            Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 20
            +1
            bring the metric that he was a Jew at the time of his capture, then they will give two.
        2. Kassandra
          Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 18
          0
          Do the Israelites have more knowledge in underwater shipbuilding than the Germans? laughing
    2. Ascetic
      Ascetic April 28 2014 14: 08
      +11
      Quote: Pimply
      boats for Israel are built on 2 special modified projects, in which many changes have been made compared to the base. Israeli defense firms actively participated in the development of these projects and in equipping boats with equipment.


      We are talking about VNEU non-volatile power plant and the AIP (Air-Independent Propulsion) system, similar to that installed on German Type 212 submarines.
      AIP allows the submarine to operate without the need to surface or use remote air intake device RDP (engine operation under water), which allows the submarine to increase stealth and underwater autonomy. AIP offers diesel-electric submarines a significant increase in capabilities.

      This is the main difference between the extreme two boats (Tanin and Rahav) from the previous ones in service with Israel. The boat became about 10m longer due to the installation of VNEU.
      Israeli firms have no relation to VNEU technologies and acts as just a customer and a TU developer. Of course, they take part in small things. In particular, in some systems for six 533mm torpedo tubes under the version of the Kyrgyz Republic Popay Turbo and SU for them that can shoot at a distance of 1500 km and be equipped with a nuclear warhead.
      Well, Rafalevskaya electronics and communications of course.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 28 2014 14: 29
        -1
        Quote: Ascetic
        Israeli firms have no relation to VNEU technologies and acts as just a customer and a TU developer.

        The fact that Israel is a developer of engines is out of the question. Small things - is this a seriously different project, you call it that, plus your own electronics and equipment to the maximum? Oh well. "Little things".
        Quote: Ascetic
        In particular, in some systems for six 533mm

        And 4 from 10, if memory serves, 650 mm. Around which poured a lot of shit
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 30
          0
          Well, it wasn’t in vain.
      2. Kassandra
        Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 24
        0
        and acoustics? yes Well, you understand ...
    3. Kassandra
      Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 15
      -1
      4 out of 6 for sure

      that is, the Israelis frightened Iraqis with a drive to the prosecutor if he didn’t give it?
      laughing
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 30 2014 12: 33
        -1
        Quote: Kassandra
        that is, the Israelis frightened Iraqis with a drive to the prosecutor if he didn’t give it?

        Trolling your own brain is powerful.
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 39
          0
          it clearly follows from the fact that you
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs April 28 2014 10: 35
    -1
    Why do they need submarines? To be considered an aggressive state around the world?
    1. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 11: 22
      +2
      Quote: Jurkovs
      Why do they need submarines? To be considered an aggressive state around the world?

      Boats, among other things, primarily intelligence
    2. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat April 28 2014 16: 37
      +6
      Quote: Jurkovs
      Why do they need submarines? To be considered an aggressive state around the world?

      Stupid question. request One might as well ask, why are Russia submarines? To be considered an aggressive state all over the world? request

      The PL is, first of all, a "weapon of guaranteed retribution", a kind of insurance against bad thoughts, in bad heads, bad people who fall on Hitler's portrait on long, dreary evenings.
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 27
        -1
        America does not take revenge? NW loonies are not a toy. his granddaughter incidentally lives in Israel.
    3. Bayonet
      Bayonet April 30 2014 22: 46
      -1
      Quote: Jurkovs
      Why do they need submarines? To be considered an aggressive state around the world?

      We have many submarines. Following your logic, are we a very aggressive state?
  • Ascetic
    Ascetic April 28 2014 14: 01
    +7
    Quote: Horst78
    Professor, where in Israel do submarines do? Probably in the shipyards of Germany, and FOR FREE


    Dolphin-class submarines are being built at the Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) in Kiel. A total of six Dolphin-class boats have been built for Israel, capable of carrying Israeli-made Popeye Turbo CDs with a nuclear warhead. The last sixth, built according to a modified design (you can google it by typing Dolphin Type 209 in a search engine) costs about 700 million "green papers" (the "total "the contract, according to some estimates, is close to $ 2 billion). The first two were donated by Germany to Israel as compensation
    feeling remorse in connection with the information that a number of German firms discovered at the end of the Gulf War assisted Iraq in creating chemical weapons
    lol repeat , Israel bought the third in 2000. Two more were built under a counterpact in the amount of about 1.5 billion euros. A third of which Germany allocated for the Holocaust.
    Regarding the sixth boat, Israel has repeatedly turned to Germany about its partial financing, it came to a personal appeal to Merkel by Netanyahu, but the "shop" was closed, despite the "life-long guilt" of the Germans for the Holocaust. Although there is information. it was possible to agree on discounts and partial co-financing of the project.
    Germany stops financing submarines for Israel
    Germany also recently signed a contract with Egypt for the construction of two Type 209 submarines in addition to two more submarines of this project, bought in 2011 for 920 million euros.
    Egypt will order two new German submarines
    1. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 14: 22
      +1
      Quote: Ascetic
      In total, six Dolphin-type boats were built for Israel, capable of carrying Israeli-made Popeye Turbo CDs with a nuclear warhead. The last sixth, built according to a modified design (you can google it by typing Dolphin Type 209 in the search engine)

      As I wrote above, the first three Dolphins are actually prototypes of the 212 project and have nothing to do with the 209 project.

      “Dolphin” of the first issue refers to the Type 800 project, their design is similar to the German Type 212, but there are a number of differences, for example, the presence of a “wet and dry” (“wet and dry”) compartment for the exit of combat swimmers. The boats are painted blue-green. The submarine has 3 floors, and the lower one is used only for batteries and for storage. In the front of the middle is the weapon compartment (“Mad Torpedo”). It contains 10 TA (2 of the 5 row, one above the other, with the outermost TAs on both sides of each row apparently 650 mm and the rest 533 mm; the TAs are equipped with hydro-mechanical ejection devices for the forced release of anti-ship missile systems “Sab-Harpoon” "And mines, the same torpedoes come out of the TA self-propelled). In the bow of the upper floor there are 3 cockpit and 3 cabins. In the central part of the middle floor there is a control post (“merkaz ha-techni” or simply “merkaz”), where the control wheels and submarine status control systems are located, and in the central part of the upper floor there is a combat information center (“MIK” - “merkaz unity Krav ”) - here are 8 multifunction color displays, which display information from a sonar, periscopes and radar, acoustics and navigators workstations, as well as doors to the radio room and to the commander’s cabin. Behind the combat information center is the engine control post (“merkaz ha-chif” or “merkaz ha-techni”), and behind it is the engine room (“heder ha-mekhonot”).

      By payment: the specific reasons were the help of West German firms in Iraq and the economic downturn. Inwako supplied 38 million worth of parts and other equipment. Another West German office, Thyssen, entered into a contract for the supply of 305 turbopumps specifically designed for installation on rocket engines of Scud rocket launchers. When the facts were revealed, there was a big scandal. And it was against the backdrop of this scandal, especially after the shelling of the Israeli Scuds, that Helmut Kohl signed this package of military assistance.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic April 28 2014 14: 42
        +4
        Quote: Pimply
        : concrete reasons were the help of West German firms in Iraq and the economic downturn. Inwako supplied 38 million dollars worth of spare parts and other equipment. Another West German office, Thyssen, entered into a contract for the supply of 305 turbopumps specifically designed for installation on rocket engines of Scud rocket launchers. When the facts were revealed, there was a big scandal. And it was against the backdrop of this scandal, especially after the shelling of the Israeli Scuds, that Helmut Kohl signed this package of military assistance.


        This is all clear, all the same the question is about the sixth boat. According to one version, Germany refused to finance the contract concluded in 2012 (the above cited a link to an Israeli source) .. according to another of 635 million euros, Berlin is ready to allocate 135 million euros. So where is the truth? Professor won convinces. that the "shop" is closed, and in the article on VO Launched fifth dolphin class submarine for the Israeli Navy. it is evident that all the same Merkel "put the squeeze" on and the Germans agreed to co-financing and discounts.
        And in general, I'm not interested in DEPL itself but in the KR Popey Turbo, I know something about it. But I would like to know more if anyone will post detailed material I would be grateful hiThe aviation version of this KR is well known, but the marine one is not. I do not guarantee financial compensation, I agree to materials from open sources smile
        It is interesting that the Indian Nirbhai product of joint development with Israel as Popeye
        fit in "small pipes" TA (533 mm). And why wide pipes (more than 650 mm)? For torpedoes and frogmen as airlocks? Or for the BR K-15 of the nominally Indian design, which the Indians are equipping the Arihanta, perhaps Dolphin's four large pipes are not only for combat swimmers.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 14: 51
          +2
          Quote: Ascetic
          So where is the truth? Professor won convinces. that the "shop" was closed, and in the article on VO The fifth submarine of the Dolphin class for the Israeli Navy was launched.

          Fifth on any in the contract was. Here is the sixth was optional. She will eventually be in the 2017 year. Subsidy for the sixth - 135 million euros. The agreement was concluded in 2011, signed by German Minister of Defense Thomas de Meziere, Israeli Minister of Defense Ehud Barak, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic April 28 2014 15: 19
            +1
            Quote: Pimply
            Subsidies for the sixth - 135 million euros. The agreement was concluded in 2011, signed by German Minister of Defense Thomas de Meziere, Israeli Minister of Defense Ehud Barak, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.


            Thanks, now it’s clear
            1. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 19: 21
              +2
              Quote: Ascetic
              Thanks, now it’s clear

              This is the information that was found. There several times everything changed.
            2. Kassandra
              Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 37
              0
              in general, these games, especially in the light of why the Israelis need these submarines (which somehow contradicts the NPT) smell very bad.
      2. Kassandra
        Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 35
        0
        Helmut Kohl owes nothing to Iraq for shelling Israel
        on the contrary, Jews should thank you to say that the warhead of the scada began to weigh 10 times less

        why didn’t the boats themselves make them smarter than the Germans?
    2. Kassandra
      Kassandra April 30 2014 12: 32
      0
      not Germanic but American-and-Germanic bully
      after the Americans were kicked out of Iran, they simply armed Iraq with chemical weapons in the war against the Islamic revolution in Iran
  • The comment was deleted.
  • tilovaykrisa
    tilovaykrisa April 28 2014 15: 50
    -1
    In the same place where KAZ for tanks, they can do it in Israel, but they took a look at the idea and technical implementation (or, frankly, took it in suitcases) from one interesting country.
  • Dezinto
    Dezinto April 29 2014 07: 14
    +2
    Aahah to the point! five points! Well, with all due respect, of course, the robots are hurt, the merkava is also excellent, but they would not have boasted of boats. laughing
  • Canep
    Canep April 28 2014 08: 34
    +1
    Of all the above, only the Iron Dome is something truly innovative.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas April 28 2014 09: 29
      +4
      Quote: Canep
      Of all the above, only the Iron Dome is something truly innovative.

      Here I would argue, the Tor air defense missile system also knocks down PCs, the current range is not the same, but if we had this problem like theirs, I don’t see technical problems ...
      But remotely controlled transport is interesting.
      1. Professor
        April 28 2014 09: 51
        +4
        Quote: Nayhas
        But remotely controlled transport is interesting.

        You are not quite right, it is not only remote control, but also autonomous i.e. robot.
        1. AlNikolaich
          AlNikolaich April 28 2014 13: 21
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          You are not quite right, it is not only remote control, but also autonomous i.e. robot.

          http://www.idfblog.com/2012/12/06/the-idf-unmanned-ground-vehicle/ Вот прочитал. Тут пишут что дистанционно- управляемый...
          1. Professor
            April 28 2014 13: 31
            +2
            Quote: AlNikolaich
            http://www.idfblog.com/2012/12/06/the-idf-unmanned-ground-vehicle/ Вот прочитал. Тут пишут что дистанционно- управляемый...

            Those that guard the airport are robots, but in general it can be fully manned.

          2. Pimply
            Pimply April 28 2014 13: 39
            +2
            Quote: AlNikolaich
            http://www.idfblog.com/2012/12/06/the-idf-unmanned-ground-vehicle/ Вот прочитал. Тут пишут что дистанционно- управляемый...

            It has dual functionality. It can follow a programmed path, or it can be guided by an operator.
      2. Kus Imak
        Kus Imak April 28 2014 15: 46
        +1
        Quote: Nayhas
        Quote: Canep
        Of all the above, only the Iron Dome is something truly innovative.

        Here I would argue, the Tor air defense missile system also knocks down PCs, the current range is not the same, but if we had this problem like theirs, I don’t see technical problems ...
        But remotely controlled transport is interesting.


        Will the TOP battery be able to shoot down 20 missiles simultaneously? What is the cost of a rocket TOP?
    2. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 09: 49
      +1
      Quote: Canep
      Of all the above, only the Iron Dome is something truly innovative.


      That is, an unmanned vehicle, automatically patrolling the borders - not?
      Or is the only serial active defense system on the tank that, moreover, has already been tested in battle (in Gaza, tanks were fired several times, the system worked normally) - also not?
      Fixing the firing point is generally complete garbage
      1. _CAMOBAP_
        _CAMOBAP_ April 28 2014 15: 04
        +5
        Quote: Pimply
        Fixing the firing point is generally complete garbage
        No, not bullshit. It's not at all clear what the fuck is about ... a dispute? Someone's Jews are to blame for everything, someone is annoyed that Russia has not bought any secrets, Iba "instilled hatred, Geyropa and other pennies ..." everything is as usual. Israel adopts what is needed in its theater of operations against its potential adversaries - hence the specifics. Therefore, the "Trophy" protects "Merkava" - good! It intercepts the "Iron Dome" RS - great! The Israeli leadership considers it necessary to have in service just such submarines with such a complex of weapons - it is their right. As for "fixing the point of fire" - this was also the case, about thirty years ago I had to study SNAR (Ground Artillery Reconnaissance Station) and ARSOM (Artillery Station for Detecting Shooting Mortars). Today I don’t know, maybe they adopted something more modern.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 15: 08
          +2
          Quote: _CAMOBAP_
          As for "fixing the point of fire" - this was also the case, about thirty years ago I had to study SNAR (Ground Artillery Reconnaissance Station) and ARSOM (Artillery Station for Detecting Shooting Mortars). Today I don’t know, maybe they adopted something more modern.

          True, it was. The question is accuracy, data transfer rate and information exchange of systems on the battlefield.
    3. GRune
      GRune April 28 2014 13: 54
      +1
      There were reports that he was not as good as the tests showed, in principle, like our Carapace ... All characteristics are overestimated.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 28 2014 14: 01
        -1
        Quote: GRune
        There were reports that he was not as good as the tests showed, in principle, like our Carapace ... All characteristics are overestimated.

        What kind of messages. Specifics, plz
      2. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat April 28 2014 17: 14
        +3
        Quote: GRune
        There were reports that he was not as good as the tests showed ...

        These messages are more than 5 years old, the system has been fixed and upgraded 200 times (the software is generally updated more often than applications on a smartphone lol)
        Today's "dome" is already ... the eleventh modification, and has nothing in common with the first sample, except for its appearance. request

        - In 2011 radar was thoroughly redrawn, almost doubling the range, accuracy and noise immunity.
        - At the beginning of 2012, rockets were replaced with lighter, more accurate and cheaper ones.
        - at the end of 2012, the area of ​​coverage was increased from 150 to 250 sq. km.
        - added the ability to intercept aircraft at altitudes up to 10 km.
        - increased the number of simultaneously hit targets from 20 to full ammunition in one salvo (60 targets per battery)
        - in March, 2013 brought down the price of rockets to 2000-3000 $ apiece (with 50.000 at the beginning)
        - Now they are finalizing the integration of a single aerospace defense system, and control centers.
        - on the approach is still a missile against highly maneuverable targets (2015-2016)
        - etc.
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic April 28 2014 20: 04
          +2
          Quote: And Us Rat
          Today's "dome" is already ... the eleventh modification, and has nothing in common with the first sample, except for its appearance.


          and the very first progenitor was at the Mechanical Engineering Design Bureau in the glorious city of Kolomna under the leadership of the recently deceased S.P. Invincible. Back in the mid-70s, N.I. Gushchin proposed a project for an object missile defense (protection of especially important strategic objects and areas of the terrain from all types of missile threats) with a principle of action similar to the LCD, except that instead of missiles, special artillery shells were proposed. But the project, due to its complexity and high cost, stopped at the R&D stage. It was never created in hardware, but remained on paper. Gushchin took the simpler path of creating a KAZ silos for ICBMs instead of a universal object missile defense, the Mozyr design and development project, which passed successful tests but did not enter service due to the cessation of funding in 1991.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply April 28 2014 20: 35
            +1
            Quote: Ascetic
            and the very first ancestor was in the Mechanical Engineering Design Bureau in the glorious city of Kolomna under the leadership of the recently passed away S.P. Invincible. Back in the mid-70s, N.I. Gushchin proposed an object project

            Good ideas are in the air
            1. cosmos111
              cosmos111 April 28 2014 20: 54
              +1
              Quote: Pimply

              Good ideas are in the air

              but rarely embodied in metal ((((

              a little off topic: HOW MUCH DISPUTES HAS IT BEEN BETTER AUTOMATIC LOADING OR LOADING ????
              They cited as an example that when switching MBT to 140 mm or 152 mm caliber, you can not do without an automatic loader ...

              BUT HERE VIDEO:
              1. ACSU ACCESS, LOADING WITHOUT AUTOMATIC LOADING CHARGES, 152 MM APPLIANCE FOR 10 SECONDS ... !!!!

              2. SAU CLOVES, FOR 14 SEC ...
              AND NOT ANY CHARGING MACHINE !!!
              1. cosmos111
                cosmos111 April 28 2014 21: 08
                +1
                Quote: cosmos111
                1. ACSU ACCESS, LOADING WITHOUT AUTOMATIC LOADING CHARGES, 152 MM APPLIANCE FOR 10 SECONDS ... !!!!



                Quote: cosmos111
                2. SAU CLOVES, FOR 14 SEC ...

                1. Sobol
                  Sobol April 29 2014 20: 47
                  0
                  Quote: cosmos111
                  Quote: cosmos111
                  1. ACSU ACCESS, LOADING WITHOUT AUTOMATIC LOADING CHARGES, 152 MM APPLIANCE FOR 10 SECONDS ... !!!!



                  Quote: cosmos111
                  2. SAU CLOVES, FOR 14 SEC ...


                  Something on the faces of those charging a particular joy from the absence of AZ is not observed. wassat
                2. Kassandra
                  Kassandra April 29 2014 20: 48
                  +1
                  it’s they still shoot, not in motion
              2. Pimply
                Pimply April 28 2014 21: 14
                +1
                Quote: cosmos111
                They cited as an example that when switching MBT to 140 mm or 152 mm caliber, you can not do without an automatic loader ...

                It is unlikely that MBT will move to a larger caliber. Now the trend is universal shells and an increase in slaughter power without an increase in caliber
                1. cosmos111
                  cosmos111 April 28 2014 21: 54
                  0
                  Quote: Pimply
                  The smallest caliber. Now the trend is universal shells and an increase in slaughter power

                  I agree with the improvement of propellants (((

                  but how many disputes were on WHAT IS BETTER AUTOMATIC LOADING OR LOADER ???
                  and no one cited, a simple example that all self-propelled guns 152mm MCA, Acacia, 122 mm Carnation, are charged manually, LOADED !!
                  !!

                  this is the main thing, not in motion, but in manual .....
                  throw the entire BC from the fighting compartment to the rear of the turret, and store propellant charges in separate containers ...
                  and the best option is the creation of a new unitary 125 mm projectile !!!!!
  • Kar Karych
    Kar Karych April 28 2014 08: 34
    +8
    Guys at Th. ADVERTISING PAUSE I WAS UNDERSTANDING.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • nablydatel
    nablydatel April 28 2014 08: 39
    +1
    There is no reception against the crowbar. They shall bluntly shove the crowbar into the caterpillars and that’s it, they will get a pillbox, and this is easiest. Sand in the barrel and let them blow for the last time.
    1. Toit
      Toit April 28 2014 08: 48
      +4
      Dear, the entire patrol zone is covered by a "big brother" with thermal cameras and a heavy machine gun;)
    2. Corsair0304
      Corsair0304 April 28 2014 12: 39
      +1
      I wouldn’t say so ... To get to Merkava with a crowbar and sand in the barrel is possible only with an invisible hat. You can also recall the Velcro mines from socks coated with solid oil, which were stuck on board or rollers ...
  • Toit
    Toit April 28 2014 08: 41
    +6
    The submarines are of course German, our filling, the hulls for the intent, on the basis of the Merkava are again made in Israel, the windbreaker is the only such system in service and has also been baptized.
    I’m waiting for sracha, I went for popcorn, but here you go Kar Karych, you can’t popocorn, the rotting bourgeoisie of the West makes money on it)))
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm April 28 2014 12: 29
      +1
      Quote: Toit
      the decaying bourgeoisie of the west earns on it

      We already have our own bourgeoisie making money on it, something has changed here since your people left.
      The article is good, but I'm afraid again because of nat. instead of discussing Israeli technology, we will discuss the Israelis.
  • Gagarin
    Gagarin April 28 2014 08: 43
    +3
    DID NOT IMPRESS!
    I think with us (if a little when you open secrecy) will be much more interesting.
  • andrey682006
    andrey682006 April 28 2014 09: 04
    +2
    Well, and the professor was broadcasting that he was writing articles.
    It turned out - a translator of promotional materials. lol
    1. Professor
      April 28 2014 09: 10
      +11
      Quote: andrey682006
      Well, and the professor was broadcasting that he was writing articles.
      It turned out - a translator of promotional materials. lol

      If you could read, you would go to my profile and check how many of the 430 articles I posted were written by me, and how many were translated by me.
  • Magyar
    Magyar April 28 2014 09: 06
    +9
    Frankly poor visibility. Mobile radar, as I understand it, is an analogue of our "zoo", the trophy system is also not know-how, the boats are German installed weapons and electronics according to the wishes of the customer, the iron dome can be agreed with. Unmanned aerial systems capable of being in the air for a long time and striking are of great interest. Professor, my appeal to you, if you can make a review on this issue, indicating the performance characteristics, is grateful in advance.
    1. atalef
      atalef April 28 2014 09: 15
      +1
      Quote: Magyar
      Mobile radar, as I understand it, is an analogue of our "zoo"

      Well, an analogue or not can only be said based on the characteristics of both
      Quote: Magyar
      ", the trophy system is also not a know-how

      Who has a similar system, tested under combat conditions and adopted for service?
      Quote: Magyar
      German boats mounted weapons and electronics according to the wishes of the customer

      Electronics Israel.
      1. Alexander.B
        Alexander.B April 28 2014 09: 48
        +3
        Quote: atalef

        Who has a similar system, tested under combat conditions and adopted for service?


        Russian "Shtora" on BMP-3.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 10: 16
          +2
          1) Curtain-1 implies protection only from certain guidance systems, namely laser. Sager, Javelin, Spike, and even the RPG-7 do not use a laser to aim at the tank.
          2) Did she go into the series or tested in combat?
          1. Timeout
            Timeout April 28 2014 11: 22
            +4
            Quote: Alexander.B
            Russian "Shtora" on BMP-3.

            "Thrush"
            Quote: Pimply
            2) Did she go into the series or tested in combat?

            Eugene, you just forgot the "Trophy" principle of operation is taken from the usual serial "Drozd", which has been repeatedly tested in the combat conditions of Afghanistan.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 12: 09
              +4
              Quote: Timeout
              Eugene, you just forgot the "Trophy" principle of operation is taken from the usual serial "Drozd", which has been repeatedly tested in the combat conditions of Afghanistan.

              There are no reliable data on the use of Thrush in Afghanistan. There is one common phrase and one photograph, which are given as evidence. Moreover, the photograph, apparently, was taken from tests. The specifics of Drozd in Afghanistan, its combat use and the number of these systems are zero. I was quite actively looking for information on this issue - but could not find it. There is data on the prototype, and data on the samples for the T-62-t-64 tanks. On the series and the specific combat use in Afghanistan - are absent. The indicator is the absence of the use of Thrush in all subsequent wars. And if he went into the active series, he would definitely light up somewhere.
              1. Timeout
                Timeout April 28 2014 14: 13
                +4
                Quote: Pimply
                There are no reliable data on the use of Thrush in Afghanistan.

                And I don’t need more authenticity than my eyes! A separate tank company that was stationed in Kabul, for the entire time after re-equipment, did not lose more than one tank from grenade launchers. After the withdrawal, half of the tanks were sent to Kharkov, from where the "Drozdy" later fell into the hands of engineers from Israel and the USA

                Quote: Pimply
                The Thrush Specifics in Afghanistan,
                Do you need to bring statistics from the test form? With widespread publication in the press? As your compatriots did, after the system worked two times normally, against conventional grenade launchers, but with the "Cornet" it turned out to be a gag.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply April 28 2014 14: 31
                  +1
                  Quote: Timeout
                  Do you need to bring statistics from the test form? With widespread publication in the press? As your compatriots did, after the system worked two times normally, against conventional grenade launchers, but with the "Cornet" it turned out to be a gag.

                  Not. I have enough general information about the facts of application and use.

                  Remind me when exactly the gag happened with the "Cornet"?

                  Quote: Timeout
                  After the withdrawal, half of the tanks were sent to Kharkov, from where the "Drozdy" later fell into the hands of engineers from Israel and the USA

                  But nothing that on the principle of action they differ?

                  Quote: Timeout
                  And I do not need my eyes to be more reliable! The separate tank company that was deployed to Kabul, for all the time after the re-equipment, did not lose more than one tank from grenade launchers.


                  Details, please
            2. Magyar
              Magyar April 28 2014 13: 16
              +3
              Good afternoon. Russian "Arena", this looks like "Trophy", although I honestly did not see it in the troops, the tankers had only conversations about this.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply April 28 2014 13: 41
                +2
                Quote: Magyar
                Good afternoon. Russian "Arena", this looks like "Trophy", although I honestly did not see it in the troops, the tankers had only conversations about this.

                All active protection systems are similar. However, if we compare this, we can say that the grenade launcher and the submachine gun are one and the same. Both shoot. Or say that M-16 and AK are one and the same machine
                1. _CAMOBAP_
                  _CAMOBAP_ April 28 2014 15: 09
                  +5
                  Quote: Pimply
                  Or say that the M-16 and AK - the same machine
                  I don’t know about M-16, but Galil - well, he looks very much like AK. smile
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply April 28 2014 15: 12
                    +1
                    Quote: _CAMOBAP_
                    I don’t know about M-16, but Galil - well, he looks very much like AK.

                    Why shouldn’t he be? Licensed copy of Velmet with its own modifications. Velmet - AK license. What has never been hidden
    2. atalef
      atalef April 28 2014 09: 15
      0
      Quote: Magyar
      Mobile radar, as I understand it, is an analogue of our "zoo"

      Well, an analogue or not can only be said based on the characteristics of both
      Quote: Magyar
      ", the trophy system is also not a know-how

      Who has a similar system, tested under combat conditions and adopted for service?
      Quote: Magyar
      German boats mounted weapons and electronics according to the wishes of the customer

      Electronics Israel.
  • Master_Lviv
    Master_Lviv April 28 2014 09: 12
    +2
    And what is new here besides the Iron Dome?

    Especially touched by the news about the "new" "Dolphin", the article is a well-deserved minus.
    1. Professor
      April 28 2014 09: 20
      +9
      Quote: Magyar
      Professor, my appeal to you, if you can make a review on this issue indicating the performance characteristics, thank you in advance.

      No one puts the exact performance characteristics of the latest drones, and their weapon systems are generally top-secret. So I can’t help you with anything. request

      Quote: Master_Lviv
      Especially touched by the news about the "new" "Dolphin", the article is a well-deserved minus.

      This non-nuclear submarine is truly innovative. An anaerobic propulsion system that allows this submarine to move quieter than the natural background of the sea is especially worthy. Explain what does this mean?

      PS
      We do not go here for "pluses" ...
      1. Master_Lviv
        Master_Lviv April 28 2014 09: 26
        -2
        I understand you go here for food. I don’t want to feed you anymore.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 09: 54
          +3
          Quote: Master_Lviv
          I understand you go here for food. I don’t want to feed you anymore.

          Are you offended by the fact that the professor qualitatively argues his statements? So trying to imagine him a troll? So offended?
  • Free wind
    Free wind April 28 2014 09: 22
    +3
    when a shell, land mine, grenade explodes on the ground, then a large number of fragments, stones, pieces of earth rises into the air. And if this explosion occurs in front of a tank equipped with a Trophy system, or the like, then most likely the computer will simply not be able to determine if the pieces of shit flying into the tank are dangerous or not. Most likely, most of the "anti-missiles" will be shot and the tank will remain naked, this is of course my opinion ... And of course, such systems are needed. The iron dome is probably protecting its territory. But do we need such a weapon. I think no. In our cities, terrorists do not seem to fire rockets, and they do not seem to fire at military units either. well, in case of war, God forbid, of course, against the GRAD this system, alas, is virtually powerless.
    1. Toit
      Toit April 28 2014 09: 28
      -2
      It’s just against the city that it works for us bully
      1. Master_Lviv
        Master_Lviv April 28 2014 09: 42
        +11
        "Trophy" versus "Grad" You got nothing wrong?
        In general, it would be interesting to check the work of Trophy against RPG-32 and other new Russian grenade launchers, in which an imitation charge flies up to the target first, causing the protection to operate, and in a cloud of debris and plasma from the explosion, the radar briefly fades, and when the main charge with a tandem warhead, the system no longer has time to react.
        1. Toit
          Toit April 28 2014 09: 51
          +2
          Sorry, I mean, of course, the dome fool
        2. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 10: 25
          0
          Quote: Master_Lviv
          "Trophy" versus "Grad" You got nothing wrong?
          In general, it would be interesting to check the work of Trophy against RPG-32 and other new Russian grenade launchers, in which an imitation charge flies up to the target first, causing the protection to operate, and in a cloud of debris and plasma from the explosion, the radar briefly fades, and when the main charge with a tandem warhead, the system no longer has time to react.

          In an interview with the creators of this system - somewhere on the waronline laid out - they noted that the system was created taking into account such charges.
        3. Timeout
          Timeout April 28 2014 11: 34
          +5
          Quote: Master_Lviv
          In general, it would be interesting to check the work of "Trophy" against RPG-32 and other new Russian grenade launchers, in which an imitation charge flies to the target first
          2007 Palestine found cappings from grenade launchers without identification marks, and the first merkava-4 were hit at the same time.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply April 28 2014 12: 15
            0
            Quote: Timeout
            2007 Palestine found cappings from grenade launchers without identification marks, and the first merkava-4 were hit at the same time.

            Can you be more specific? When and which?
            Well, if anything, the standard installation of KAZ on tanks began in 2008
      2. Free wind
        Free wind April 28 2014 09: 52
        +3
        I apologize. but I meant precisely a volley of hail. not single rockets as in your case.
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat April 28 2014 17: 30
          +4
          Quote: Free Wind
          I apologize. but I meant precisely a volley of hail. not single rockets as in your case.

          Like these ones? lol

      3. _CAMOBAP_
        _CAMOBAP_ April 28 2014 15: 19
        +3
        I repeat - the system was created for specific conditions and works under these conditions. It is unlikely that in the foreseeable future Israel is threatened with a salvo of at least one Grad installation, not to mention more. So it works not against the Grad, but against what the enemy has. It works well, and it works well. The task of intercepting a volley of at least the Grad battery (240 RS in a volley, if anything) was not set before the designers - IMHO. That way, you can't fill up any interceptor missiles.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 19: 23
          +1
          Quote: _CAMOBAP_
          I repeat - the system was created for specific conditions and works under these conditions. It is unlikely that in the foreseeable future Israel is threatened with a salvo of at least one Grad installation, not to mention more. So it works not against the Grad, but against what the enemy has. It works well, and it works well. The task of intercepting a volley of at least the Grad battery (240 RS in a volley, if anything) was not set before the designers - IMHO. That way, you can't fill up any interceptor missiles.

          At the moment, the States, Indians, Singapore and South Korea are interested in the system (due to the peculiarities of Seoul and its location near the border)
    2. takeshi
      takeshi April 28 2014 09: 38
      +3
      Nuuuu, do not consider designers idiots. I think the problem of choosing targets for which "interceptor missiles" are fired has been solved, both by Israeli designers and ours.
    3. Professor
      April 28 2014 09: 53
      +8
      Quote: Free Wind
      in the explosion of a shell, a land mine, a grenade on the ground, a large number of fragments, stones, pieces of land rises into the air.

      If these fragments have the signature and dynamics of real ammunition, then I agree with you.
    4. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 10: 17
      +1
      Quote: Free Wind
      against GRADA, this system, alas, is virtually powerless.

      One launcher intercepts a simultaneous salvo of 20 missiles. There are three such installations in the battery.
      However, the Dome acts in coordination with the Air Force. It is assumed that the Air Force suppress the bulk of the enemy firing points.
  • AlNikolaich
    AlNikolaich April 28 2014 09: 23
    +4
    Greetings Professor! And where is the review of truly innovative weapons systems dodging? What is shown is already known, and not particularly innovative (except for the iron dome, if that ...)
    By the way, well done sons of Israel. On such a small territory to establish one of the best defense industries! Americans smoke aside ...
    1. Master_Lviv
      Master_Lviv April 28 2014 09: 36
      +6
      Do you remember the phrase "if you want to live, you will be so unhappy"? But in fact - a great example of self-organization, not without mistakes and blunders, of course, but at least something.
    2. Professor
      April 28 2014 09: 55
      +5
      Quote: AlNikolaich
      And where is the review of truly innovative weapons systems dodging?

      This is an article from the Zahal blog. They will post something super innovative right away. hi
    3. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 09: 55
      +2
      Quote: AlNikolaich
      Greetings Professor! And where is the review of truly innovative weapons systems dodging? What is shown is already known, and not particularly innovative (except for the iron dome, if that ...)
      By the way, well done sons of Israel. On such a small territory to establish one of the best defense industries! Americans smoke aside ...

      That is, an unmanned patrol car is garbage, and not a toast anymore? But...
      1. AlNikolaich
        AlNikolaich April 28 2014 13: 07
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        That is, an unmanned patrol car is garbage, and not a toast anymore? But...

        Well why the garbage then ??? Fine. It’s just that there’s nothing really super-duper about it ... And it seems like it’s not a novelty too ... The thing is certainly useful. But! I can build something similar, from an ATV ... and right in my country house ... Well, if necessary ...
        1. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 13: 47
          +1
          Quote: AlNikolaich
          Well why the garbage then ??? Fine. It’s just that there’s nothing really super-duper about it ... And it seems like it’s not a novelty too ... The thing is certainly useful. But! I can build something similar, from an ATV ... and right in my country house ... Well, if necessary ...

          A few years ago, such cars were almost fiction. The first autonomous car tournament, which took place on 13 on March 2004 of the year, failed successfully. To win a million, the contestants had to go the 240 km route the fastest. However, the biggest thing that the most advanced robot turned out to be capable of is to drive 12 km, that is, only the twentieth part of the route. The others left the race even earlier (some crashed into an obstacle, others began to slip and burned tires, something went wrong with the others), and some did not start at all.
          1. AlNikolaich
            AlNikolaich April 28 2014 14: 10
            +1
            Quote: Pimply
            A few years ago, such cars were almost fiction. The first autonomous car tournament, which took place on 13 March 2004 year, failed successfully

            I know, in the subject ... Auto-review published in detail.

            But, Guardium is kind of like a remotely piloted machine ??? ...

            "Back in the control room, the soldiers - all of whom are women - operate the Guardium with joysticks, cogwheels, steering wheels and monitors that are broadcast live from the field.
            Soldiers who wish to join the Guardium unit must have a driver's license for automatic and manual transmissions. “Candidates need to be able to focus intensely, since the job requires glued to the screen without interruption for six hours a day,” said Lt. Avidav.
            After being admitted to the unit, the soldiers take a four month course before driving from the Guardium. As part of the course, new soldiers are participating in Jeep Drivers Training Courses as well as Tomcar. "

            (C) http://www.idfblog.com/2012/12/06/the-idf-unmanned-ground-vehicle/
            By the way, Tomkar strongly resembles in appearance and proportions ... Apparently based on it ...
            1. Pimply
              Pimply April 28 2014 14: 32
              +1
              Quote: AlNikolaich
              But, Guardium is kind of like a remotely piloted machine ??? ...

              Remote control optional. Like UAV - there is an operator
  • Same lech
    Same lech April 28 2014 09: 26
    +8
    And I'm interested in IDF Unmanned Land Vehicles .... Do these things work in rough terrain (marshland, various ravines, obstacles in the form of large stones) and precipitation in the form of rain, fog, sun exposure?
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas April 28 2014 09: 38
      +6
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      .... do these things work in rough terrain (marshlands, various ravines, obstacles in the form of large stones) and precipitation in the form of rain, fog, sun exposure?

      In theory, this is a "normal" SUV, only with remote control + cameras with thermal imaging cameras for 360g. + GPS. Well, there should also be a radar, such as parking sensors ...
      But it is possible without any frills because its route is standard, along the fence ...
      And, I forgot, there should be a matugalnik in order to send Palestinians to x ...
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 28 2014 10: 27
        +2
        Quote: Nayhas
        In theory, this is a "normal" SUV, only with remote control + cameras with thermal imaging cameras for 360g. + GPS. Well, there should also be a radar, such as parking sensors ...

        Well, automatic movement has actually been decided relatively recently. This is somewhat more serious parking sensors. Read on similar systems during the DARPA contest, and what difficulties they encountered a few years ago
        1. Nayhas
          Nayhas April 28 2014 12: 31
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          Well, automatic movement has actually been decided relatively recently. This is somewhat more serious parking sensors. Read on similar systems during the DARPA contest, and what difficulties they encountered a few years ago

          Well, here the route is constant, in addition, beacons can be installed in the fence, the professor says that the machine is a robot. Maybe you are right. DARPA is working on robots that need to be applied on different terrain and here the question of navigation and interaction with other vehicles and people is acute. Here it is somewhat simpler, no one moves along the fence, and even if it crushes which pedestrian, then even more so. But still interesting. Especially how he identifies topics for notifying the patrol. Well, there are partisan or illegal burrows ...
          1. Pimply
            Pimply April 28 2014 12: 36
            0
            Quote: Nayhas
            Well, here the route is constant, in addition, beacons can be installed in the fence, the professor says that the machine is a robot.

            Robot. That is, the route is programmable by GPS, and the response to obstacles is from sensors.
            Quote: Nayhas
            DARPA is working on robots that need to be applied on different terrain and here the question of navigation and interaction with other vehicles and people is acute.

            DARP has several directions. Specifically for robots of this type several years ago there was a competition.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 10: 03
      +2
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      Do these things work in rough terrain (marshland, various ravines, obstacles in the form of large stones) and precipitation in the form of rain, fog, sun exposure?

      Tested for many years. It seems that the question with this does not arise there, since these systems work successfully in the Golan, where all of the above is found in abundance. And the video rides quite briskly.
    3. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat April 28 2014 17: 48
      0
      Quote: The same Lech
      And I'm interested in IDF Unmanned Land Vehicles .... Do these things work in rough terrain (marshland, various ravines, obstacles in the form of large stones) and precipitation in the form of rain, fog, sun exposure?

      Guardium


      TAGS


      Amstaff


      IAI REX
  • sevtrash
    sevtrash April 28 2014 09: 37
    +4
    Even a little disappointed - what is so "most innovative" here?
    The professor was clearly flawed.
    But the technology of tracking, control, detection by drones of any terrorists and then a blow to them from above or with a tip - who introduced it? Maybe the American development, and if the Israeli - really innovation.
    It seems like in a cyber war, the Israelis can be successful, especially against the background of the Arabs. Which, however, I do not know. The attack on Iranian centrifuges is like an American development.
    Professor, can you find something really innovative?
    1. Professor
      April 28 2014 10: 02
      +6
      Quote: sevtrash
      Professor, can you find something really innovative?

      Come on you find fault. A ground-based drone was adopted by the NMNIP only in Isarail, the rest are only being developed. Spread his photo taken by Lebanese ...
      Radar ... I can’t say anything, there is no TTX.
      KAZ Trophy on production tanks and even successfully knocked down the Russian flagship Cornet, I would also put it on this list.
      LCD has no tax in the world laughing
      The boats are so secret that there’s nothing to discuss.

      But the Air Force weapons were not included in this list, and there are a lot of interesting things ...
      1. Magyar
        Magyar April 28 2014 13: 07
        +5
        Professor be so kind as to be more specific, when exactly KAZ "Trophy" hit the "Cornet" ???. In my opinion, this case is from the realm of fantasy.
        1. Professor
          April 28 2014 13: 49
          +2
          Quote: Magyar
          Professor be so kind as to be more specific, when exactly KAZ "Trophy" hit the "Cornet" ???. In my opinion, this case is from the realm of fantasy.

          The missile was intercepted by the 9th tank battalion of the 401th brigade. The link is not saved.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 14: 02
          0
          Quote: Magyar
          Professor be so kind as to be more specific, when exactly KAZ "Trophy" hit the "Cornet" ???. In my opinion, this case is from the realm of fantasy.

          20 March 2011 year. The 1 of March of that year was intercepted by the RPG-7

          http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4044859,00.html
        3. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat April 28 2014 18: 15
          +2
          Quote: Magyar
          Professor be so kind as to be more specific, when exactly KAZ "Trophy" hit the "Cornet" ???. In my opinion, this case is from the realm of fantasy.

          No fiction - everything is easily explained.
          In 2006, Isail captured a lot of trophy "Cornets" from Hezbollah in Lebanon, the system was thoroughly studied, and the then projected KAZs were modified to meet the new requirements. When all the parameters of the rocket are known, the development of protection is a purely production issue. request




          Py. Sy. - The missile was intercepted by the 9th tank battalion of the 401th brigade, 6 of July 2012, the rocket was fired from the central part of the gas sector, near the Kisufim intersection.
          1. edeligor
            edeligor April 28 2014 18: 47
            +2
            Quote: And Us Rat
            2006 Isael captured a lot of trophy Cornets from Hezbollah in Lebanon,

            hi With all due respect, "cornet" is yesterday. We need new trophies, if possible, of course.
            PS Please accept my sincere condolences on the memory of the victims of the Holocaust.
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi April 28 2014 19: 45
              0
              Quote: edeligor

              hi With all due respect, "cornet" is yesterday. We need new trophies, if possible, of course.
              PS Please accept my sincere condolences on the memory of the victims of the Holocaust.

              Today "Kornet" is the most advanced anti-tank system both in the RA and in the armies of your allies.
              1. edeligor
                edeligor April 28 2014 22: 07
                0
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                Today "Cornet" is the most advanced ATGM

                The "Kornet" has many names, it's not for me to explain to you. For that matter, a skilled fighter will overwhelm your super duper tank from the seven with a tandem.
                1. MACCABI TLV
                  MACCABI TLV April 29 2014 00: 12
                  0
                  Quote: edeligor
                  And for that matter, a skilled fighter will fill up your super duper tank of the seven with a tandem.

                  Come on, you won't make a skilled fighter out of a 12-month conscript, .... more I will say, you won't even make a fighter out of a "failed to pay off".
                  but hypothetically ..... who will bother you then?
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply April 29 2014 02: 47
                    0
                    Quote: MACCABI TLV
                    grow up, you will not make a skilled fighter out of a 12 month conscript,
                    Say nonsense
                  2. edeligor
                    edeligor April 29 2014 15: 04
                    +2
                    Quote: MACCABI TLV
                    Come on, you won't make a skilled fighter out of a 12-month conscript, .... more I will say, you won't even make a fighter out of a "failed to pay off".
                    but hypothetically ..... who's stopping you?

                    Dear Alexander! I see you left the country long ago. I assure you that there are practically no “who failed to buy off” in Russia. Why am I saying this, because I have a direct relationship to this. It is now honorable and fashionable to serve here, of course, it is far from the USSR, but still ... Conscripts now do not wear outfits in the kitchen, but are exclusively engaged in combat training. Therefore, the conscript can fill up the imported "box", believe me! Moreover, in accordance with the order of the Ministry of Defense, conscripts are not sent to the area of ​​hostilities, professionals work there.
  • Klim2011
    Klim2011 April 28 2014 09: 49
    +9
    The entire period of the existence of modern Israel, the country was in a constant terrorist threat.
    Unfortunately, we now also imagine what terrorism is not only from international news.
    All Israeli law enforcement agencies have accumulated vast practical experience in response and prevention in this area. For a more effective solution to this problem, these weapons models were created. The experience of the Israeli army is also being taken over by the Chinese military (in my opinion, there was an article recently on Topvar).
    One can argue for a long time on the topic of lawfulness: the right of Jews to their own state and the formation of Israel, military and police actions of Israelis, the quality of military equipment, but not a single state in the world has such practical experience. Denying this fact is at least not reasonable.
    PS: fortunately, between our special services there is a normal business exchange of experience.
    1. antibanukurayza
      antibanukurayza April 28 2014 16: 15
      -8
      Stop talking about "Palestinian terrorism"! Our grandfathers fought in the ranks of partisan detachments and for the Nazis they were terrorists. In Afghanistan, Afghans are fighting the Americans and for them they are terrorists. In Palestine, the Palestinians are fighting for their freedom and are they terrorists? By the way, the junta calls the militias of the South-East of Ukraine terrorists.
      1. Klim2011
        Klim2011 April 28 2014 16: 37
        +9
        What is the difference between a bus explosion with people in Volgograd and Jerusalem? Think at your leisure and write what you name the suicide bomber in either case.
  • RAA
    RAA April 28 2014 09: 54
    +2
    The IDF’s weakness in the brutal need to be armed several steps ahead of its enemies.
    1. Professor
      April 28 2014 10: 05
      +5
      Quote: RAA
      The IDF’s weakness in the brutal need to be armed several steps ahead of its enemies.

      The weakness of the Tsakhal is the strong military prosecutor’s office and the free access of journalists to the battlefield.
      1. antibanukurayza
        antibanukurayza April 28 2014 16: 16
        -9
        IDF are the successors of the "SS"
    2. Alexander.B
      Alexander.B April 28 2014 10: 06
      +3
      no advantage without winning
  • MolGro
    MolGro April 28 2014 10: 09
    0
    1- combat drone - air defense (it has the function of guarding the territory you launch and it rides and shoots at targets)
    2 active protection arena has long been on the market.
    3 mobile radars like shit in the market
    The 4 iron dome was recognized as not effective by the Jews themselves, after he could not stop the shelling.
    5 submarines not of their production is not an achievement

    All that is listed in the article has long been and is not new !!
    1. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 10: 47
      +3
      Quote: MolGro
      1- combat drone - air defense (it has the function of guarding the territory you launch and it rides and shoots at targets)

      ??? A little more clearly
      Quote: MolGro
      2 active protection arena has long been on the market.

      Even in the 60 years, Americans began to develop KAZ. Nevertheless, as with the Arena, things did not go beyond prototypes.
      Arena did not go into the series; in the battle, as far as is known, the test did not pass. At the moment, Trophy is the only serial KAZ in the world. This is its main difference from all other systems.
      Quote: MolGro
      3 mobile radars like shit in the market

      Right. The only question is the performance characteristics of these systems
      Quote: MolGro
      The 4 iron dome was recognized as not effective by the Jews themselves, after he could not stop the shelling.

      Actually just the opposite. The destruction of more than 90% of short-range flying targets was recognized as a triumph of engineering. And one of the most significant deterrents in shelling. The difference in the use of LCDs was striking before that.
      Quote: MolGro
      5 submarines not of their production is not an achievement

      About boats I wrote above. And the article does not cite achievements. Did you pay any attention to what the article is called?
  • Free wind
    Free wind April 28 2014 10: 10
    +3
    For a tank, a shot from an RPG or a rocket or an anti-tank grenade can be dangerous. The approach speed to the tank, as you know, is different for everyone. masses too. Therefore, the protective complex should work on the threat. It will also work on a thrown brick. Well, there is still no complex that can determine that it is a brick and not an explosive disguised as a brick.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 April 28 2014 22: 12
      +1
      Quote: Free Wind
      both a shot from an RPG and a rocket, and an anti-tank grenade

      A grenade is not an option at all. You try to get 20 meters at least.
      RPGs and rockets radiate heat and move at a certain speed
  • Good cat
    Good cat April 28 2014 10: 28
    +4
    All systems are still quite controversial. There is no data on their effectiveness, at least in the article. Why are they then the most, the most .... Most likely in all systems there is more advertising than business.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 10: 50
      0
      Quote: Good cat
      All systems are still quite controversial. There is no data on their effectiveness, at least in the article. Why are they then the most, the most .... Most likely in all systems there is more advertising than business.

      Trophy successfully repelled several anti-tank attacks in Gaza. More specifically - 1 and 20 March 2011 years.
      There are statistics on the dome too. Guardium successfully patrols the border near Gaza and the Golan. Quite speaking data.
      1. qwert
        qwert April 28 2014 15: 41
        +3
        Pimply, I do not argue. The dome has fully established itself.
        You just change the tricolor on your flag. And there will be even more respect for you.
        Take an example from the Professor. Be honest.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 19: 27
          +1
          Quote: qwert
          Pimply, I do not argue. The dome has fully established itself.
          You just change the tricolor on your flag. And there will be even more respect for you.
          Take an example from the Professor. Be honest.


          To begin with - we switched to you, my friend? Did they drink, eat, drink together? Served maybe?

          Well, since we are on you, my friend, then I will tell you a big secret. The checkbox on this site (except for the Soviet one) is set AUTOMATICALLY. By IP. Cool, right? Technologies. I am now in Moscow, I have a Russian passport, at the moment my company pays taxes to the Russian treasury. Fair enough?
          1. qwert
            qwert April 29 2014 06: 48
            +1
            Hmm, well, if so, dear Bumpy, then yes, I think quite honestly, although "love for Russia" you manifest in every comment.
            As for the appeal to "you", it somehow seemed to me that the appeal to you to "dear Pimple" is still not very consistent. Perhaps it is because of communication under nicknames on the Internet that this communication norm has spread to "you". What do you think? "
  • Kar Karych
    Kar Karych April 28 2014 10: 31
    +3
    Quote: Beck
    Quote: Kar Karych
    Guys at Th. ADVERTISE PAUSE I WAS FOR humble.


    So what are you going for? For the rebellious or the rebellious? Do not specify?


    Well, you don’t have to be rude, a typo happens.
    1. Beck
      Beck April 28 2014 15: 56
      -1
      Quote: Kar Karych
      Well, you don’t have to be rude, a typo happens.


      Well, if so, then I'm sorry. Anything can happen and not typos too.
  • landromat
    landromat April 28 2014 10: 52
    -2
    Great Jewish technologies:

    1st technology is the Soviet lunar rover of 1969?
    2nd radar))) wow, genius Jews !!!
    3rd thrush 1983?
    4th missile defense against missiles from old pipes? The range does not matter if the country is smaller than the Moscow region)))
    5th 667 fret
    1. Beck
      Beck April 28 2014 18: 32
      +2
      Quote: landromat
      Great Jewish technologies:

      1st technology is the Soviet lunar rover of 1969?
      2nd radar))) wow, genius Jews !!!
      3rd thrush 1983?
      4th missile defense against missiles from old pipes? The range does not matter if the country is smaller than the Moscow region)))
      5th 667 fret


      Are you proud of your ernish?

      And you are not familiar with the wretched reasoning that it was the Jews who made a great contribution to the modern civilization of the planet, based on great scientific discoveries. Citizens of different countries, but Jews.

      A fifth of all Nobel laureates, of all time, are Jews. In Russia, there were 19 Nobel laureates and 8 of them were Jews, which is 42%.

      By ernichay now over the Russian Nobel laureates.
      1. MACCABI TLV
        MACCABI TLV April 29 2014 00: 23
        +2
        How different are the Russians in their attitude to the country "less than Moscow region" being treated in ancological, cardiological centers in Israel, and this ...
        Quote: landromat
        ) Wow, genius Jews !!!
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 April 30 2014 16: 04
          0
          Quote: MACCABI TLV
          being treated in the ancological, cardiological centers of Israel

          It is clear that people who can afford to be treated there are fundamentally different from those on the site
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra April 30 2014 16: 22
            0
            "minus marks" apparently just can
      2. landromat
        landromat April 29 2014 13: 25
        +1
        Well, yes, yes, what kind of synagogue manages the Nobel Foundation)))
  • sv68
    sv68 April 28 2014 11: 07
    +4
    it’s just that the whole song is that Israel’s weapons already initially do so specifically for themselves, according to their own specifics and methods of warfare. Just Sorry, but the trophy system is essentially just an Israeli version of the arena and there’s nothing new there — it’s easy to dazzle or knock off confusing false targets and destroy the tank
    1. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 12: 13
      +2
      Quote: sv68
      it’s just that the whole song is that Israel’s weapons already initially do so specifically for themselves, according to their own specifics and methods of warfare. Just Sorry, but the trophy system is essentially just an Israeli version of the arena and there’s nothing new there — it’s easy to dazzle or knock off confusing false targets and destroy the tank

      The musket was invented half a millennium ago. Nothing new - bullet and gunpowder. But for some reason you don’t start to blame AK for this, for example - they say that Mikhail Timofeevich did not invent anything new.
  • Simonov
    Simonov April 28 2014 11: 19
    +5
    Quote: Good cat
    All systems are still quite controversial. There is no data on their effectiveness, at least in the article. Why are they then the most, the most .... Most likely in all systems there is more advertising than business.

    Perhaps the system is controversial, in your opinion, but, in fact, are one of the most advanced. And they are a promising groundwork for the development of more advanced systems. Technology does not arise from scratch. And sustainable technology is a fusion of advanced science with daily practice.
  • zao74
    zao74 April 28 2014 11: 40
    +8
    Advertise ID? wassat
    1. Professor
      April 28 2014 12: 13
      +3
      Quote: zao74


      Of course. laughing An article from the IDF blog for your information.
  • MolGro
    MolGro April 28 2014 12: 44
    +5
    Jewish advertising!
  • Corsair0304
    Corsair0304 April 28 2014 13: 01
    +3
    To be honest - nothing new and useful, such that "Wow", in the article did not find. All of the above samples of military equipment in one form or another are present in the armies of developed countries, well, maybe except for the drone machine patrolling the desert. By the way - no operator can remotely respond to a change in the situation like a driver behind the wheel of the same car. It is also necessary to take into account the possibility of intercepting control of the drone, which is difficult to do with the same driver. Most likely, they are guided by the principle "The life of an Israeli is above all," and they build their technique on this. As for all of the above wars
    Quote: Pimply
    1948-th - 8 superior in armament and number of armies
    1956-th - superior in size and armament to the Egyptian army
    1967-th - 5 superior in number and armament of armies
    1967-1970-th - 2 superior in size and armament of the army with the active support and participation of military advisers of the USSR
    1973-th - 4 superior in size and armament of the army
    1982-th - equal in armament and superior in number to the Syrian army, as well as armed units of the PLO

    then IMHO Arabs never knew how to fight in a normal way. Well, Israel did not face a soldier of equal spirit and armament. As the proverb says: A flock of sheep led by a lion will defeat a flock of lions led by a sheep. I can not vouch for accuracy)) So the Arabs are far from lions ...
    1. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2014 13: 38
      0
      Quote: Corsair0304
      To be honest - nothing new and useful, such that "Wow", in the article did not find. All of the above samples of military equipment in one form or another are present in the armies of developed countries, well, maybe except for the drone machine patrolling the desert. By the way - no operator can remotely respond to a change in the situation like a driver behind the wheel of the same car.

      If you do not understand - this is a robot. Operator management is optional. The reaction there is automatic.


      Quote: Corsair0304
      then IMHO Arabs never knew how to fight in a normal way.

      A highly controversial statement. Israeli soldiers would argue actively with you.

      Quote: Corsair0304
      Israel did not encounter a soldier of equal spirit and armament.

      Before the start of the 80x, Arabs were superior to Israel in technology and weapons
      1. qwert
        qwert April 28 2014 15: 36
        +4
        Arabs to Arabs are different. The Egyptians are one thing, the Syrians are another. Iraqis at least once showed themselves quite well.
        But in general, as the former military adviser told me, the Arabs, with the exception of the Syrians, are ordinary Papuans.
        About technology .... About technology, the Jews themselves are quite honest. If the MiG-21 is a good aircraft, they say so, if the MiG-23 exceeded the F-16 in acceleration and speed characteristics, they also talk about it.
        But to fight the Jews and Russians in general is not with their hands. Firstly in FIG, and secondly, the emergence of the state of Israel is still to a greater extent the merit of Stalin. Not in vain on the day of his death, Golda Maer declared a three-day mourning in Israel. This was not the case with the death of the British prime ministers (and, in my opinion, even the queens) or the death of the American presidents. So that we were on different sides solely thanks to the United States.
        1. Professor
          April 28 2014 17: 32
          +2
          Quote: qwert
          secondly, the emergence of the state of Israel is still to a greater extent the merit of Stalin

          And more specifically? What exactly did he do to create Israeli statehood? About Golda Meir amused. In 1953, who was the prime minister?
          1. qwert
            qwert April 29 2014 06: 54
            0
            I admit a mistake. Weak in the dates of your prime ministers. But mourning was declared.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply April 28 2014 19: 30
          0
          Quote: qwert
          Firstly in FIG, and secondly, the emergence of the state of Israel is still to a greater extent the merit of Stalin.

          I love this myth. When one vote and an insignificant supply of arms from Czechoslovakia suddenly became the creation of Israel. And 70 years of the formation and revival of the state, they seem to have nothing to do with it. Class 8)!
          1. qwert
            qwert April 29 2014 07: 03
            +1
            I say, precisely about the moment when the allies in the person of leaders (Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt), among other issues, decided the question of creating a separate state for the Jews. The question was, firstly, whether such a state would be created, and secondly, if it was created, then in the Middle East or Central America. By and large, Stalin insisted on the need for creation, and it was in the Middle East.
            In terms of the armament of Israel, the USSR did not play any positive role. I never talked about this. About the attempts of pre-war self-settlement of territories, too. In the armed forces, the only thing Russia helped was the experience of the Second World War, which the Jewish veterans of that war had. If I am not mistaken, the Heroes of the Soviet Union were in the first wave. But I am not talking about this either.
            The Armed Forces of Israel are the sole merit of Israel and more than a draw. Even the United States was not very beneficent, as many believe.
            1. Professor
              April 29 2014 09: 10
              +2
              I say, precisely about the moment when the allies in the person of leaders (Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt), among other issues, decided the question of creating a separate state for the Jews.

              Not true. Not about creation, but about recognition. About creation it was possible to speak about 30 years before this at the time of the Balfour declaration. By 1948, the state of Israel with all the institutions of statehood de facto already existed.

              By and large, Stalin insisted on the need for creation, and it was in the Middle East.

              Not true. Stalin created a "Jewish national home" in Birobidzhan.

              In the armed forces, the only thing Russia helped was the experience of the Second World War, which the Jewish veterans of that war had.

              Not exactly. The Jews of Palestine fought in the ranks of the British army. Soviet Jews Stalin did not particularly let go to Palestine.

              Even the United States was not very beneficent, as many believe.

              They obstructed.
    2. Professor
      April 28 2014 13: 53
      +3
      Quote: Corsair0304
      then IMHO Arabs never knew how to fight in a normal way. Well, Israel did not face a soldier of equal spirit and armament. As the proverb says: A flock of sheep led by a lion will defeat a herd of lions led by a sheep. I can not vouch for accuracy)) So the Arabs are far from lions ..

      Arab soldiers were always better armed, there were always more of them, they were led by the best of the best Soviet "advisers" in the tens of thousands ... so most likely you are right, the spirit is important.

      PS
      It is unrealistic to take control of a drone even in theory.
  • Zaslavsky-S
    Zaslavsky-S April 28 2014 13: 41
    +1
    Why argue that. Only time, and battle, will answer all questions.
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT April 28 2014 13: 46
    +3
    Wow! The state sets the task - the designers fulfill it! We would
    1. qwert
      qwert April 29 2014 07: 10
      0
      The state is setting a task and FINANCING HER .... We would like to ...
      I wonder what is the attitude in ISRAEL to engineers and, for example, milling workers ???
      Probably better than in Russia
  • Sledgehammer
    Sledgehammer April 28 2014 14: 52
    0
    IDF unmanned land vehicles.

    It’s clear that this is a drone, not a robot as it is represented, and most importantly
    this is the operator, he makes decisions, not the machine.
    In the movement along the pledged marshout (desert, airfield) no
    nothing new, especially since the territory allows.
    Active Trophy Defense Complex

    What’s the shock core (UY) not a fact . For him, you need to create a claim
    drive and guidance system, it's like getting a bullet into
    another bullet. The error in pointing to the centimeter and UY goes by,
    not to mention the fragility of such equipment.
    Most likely an ordinary fragmentation warhead, especially
    the system intercepts grenades very close to the tank when
    the dispersion of fragments is minimal. How does she work
    on tandem ammunition is another question.
    Dolphin-class IDF submarines

    The submarine is German and what is its innovation that is not sensible.
    Mobile Radar Windshield

    Even in the USSR, such systems were created, in principle, nothing new
    (innovative) is not in it.
  • Alexey M
    Alexey M April 28 2014 15: 08
    +1
    There are no new products, but everything is in service, and this is a plus for Israel. And minus them for the bombing of Syria.
    PS The higher the state rises, the deeper the pit into which it falls. This is to say that you need to be more modest. Around Israel, the standard of living is much lower so sooner or later Israel will sweep away sooner and nothing will help you because friends in your region no. And you yourself know this and are afraid of the arms race from here too. Unfortunately, Russia too can only eat up on itself, although I want to believe that the Slavs will not throw if what?
  • qwert
    qwert April 28 2014 15: 26
    +1
    Comic-level article. "the system was created for only one task - to protect the tank from all sides"
    and so on ... It's like a modern magazine - with beautiful posters and arrows-like "ultra-powerful locator", "air-to-air missiles", "afterburner engine", etc.
    This is for the NEXT generation.
    And I would like something more detailed, more tasty ...
    That’s how the mobile locator differs from others, what’s new in it ???
    Well, something like this.
    Here even the Professor has nowhere to turn around. Well, those who want to "fight" with him ...
  • Gayver
    Gayver April 28 2014 15: 35
    +3
    Who knows on Trophy the maximum rate of interception of armor-piercing subcaliber shells? I heard KAZ Afganit that there will be a maximum speed on Armata - 1700 m / s
    1. ar-ren
      ar-ren April 29 2014 00: 21
      0
      Quote: Gayver
      Who knows on Trophy the maximum rate of interception of armor-piercing subcaliber shells?


      Trophy is NOT designed to intercept sub-caliber. Podkalibery will kill Iron Fist.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 29 2014 02: 48
        +1
        Quote: ar-ren
        Trophy is NOT designed to intercept sub-caliber. Podkalibery will kill Iron Fist.

        As far as I know, during the tests the subcaliber system intercepted
  • Yurgens
    Yurgens April 28 2014 20: 52
    0
    Quote: Horst78
    Quote: Pimply
    A smart question, it's harder to ask

    Yes, please.
    When did the Israeli army fight an equal adversary?
    When did the Israeli army win without betrayal by the enemy and pressure on him by the us?
    How many billions were donated to the Israeli army in the form of military equipment and ammunition?

    Strong or not strong it is already secondary, the keyword fought
  • erofich
    erofich April 28 2014 21: 25
    -4
    ZIONISM = NAZISM
    1. Toit
      Toit April 28 2014 21: 44
      -2
      This is you from the USA write laughing
  • -ш-
    -ш- April 28 2014 21: 29
    0
    well, 20 years ago it would have been cool, but for today these "innovations" will not surprise
    1. MACCABI TLV
      MACCABI TLV April 29 2014 00: 27
      0
      your aircraft have a lot of such innovations, why surprise the world (except for cracked armored personnel carriers)? lol
      1. -ш-
        -ш- April 29 2014 14: 26
        +1
        I’m not talking about ours, and indeed my region is sleeping and sees already in Russia to be like Crimea ... and I sit on this site because I like Russian technology, without pathos and reliable, it’s a pity that corruption is in the way, but it is everywhere .. . simple and different everywhere
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. -ш-
        -ш- April 29 2014 14: 42
        +2
        Well, in general I’m Russian, I just live in Ukraine)) and even after the advice there hasn’t changed much ... even Israel would have seized Ukraine ... but to surprise ... the voivode’s missile was going to Ukraine, as you know it, I didn’t hear someone did something similar ... although if you really ask a Ukrainian, I think he would tell you what he can be proud of
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • high
    high April 28 2014 23: 33
    +2
    Ingvar 72 - ,, A little bit of fiction and imagination: imagine that Hitler would not be the ideological inspirer of persecution of Jews, how would they (Jews) behave in a war ?,

    Apparently, the participation of Jews in the Second World War is understandable and there are no questions anymore ..... The participation of Jews in the wars of the Russian Empire:
    1. Visit Sevastopol, on the territory of the Marine Plant, a monument of white marble has been preserved on the mass grave of Jewish soldiers who died during the first defense of Sevastopol ...... more than 500 Jewish soldiers are buried there ..
    2. There is still a monument to the heroes of Plevna in Moscow (behind the building of the Polytechnic Museum), where among the names of the dead Muscovites there are dozens of names of Jewish warriors ...
    3. The number of Jews - the St. George Knights - is indirectly indicated by the fact that almost 1918 people were members of the Jewish Union of the St. George Knights in early 2 .....
    4. General A.I. Denikin in his famous book “The Way of the Russian Officer” recalled that in the ranks of the Russian Imperial Army there were not only lower officers, but also generals of purely Jewish origin.
    The sons of the Jewish cantonists were famous generals, for example, N.I. Ivanov (who, on the orders of Emperor Nicholas II, made an unsuccessful attempt to suppress the rebellion in Petrograd in February 1917, and later, in 1918, led the white monarchical Southern Army) ......
  • Praetorian
    Praetorian April 29 2014 00: 34
    0
    It's called "Guess the Author by the Title of the Article"
    I guessed.
  • high
    high April 29 2014 00: 36
    +1
    It is interesting to receive criticism of cooperation in the military field of Israel and China ....
    In recent years, Israel has become one of the main exporters of modern weapons to China .....
    According to experts, Israeli military exports to China are second only to Russian and have a tendency to noticeable growth.
    On January 5, 2007, information about the newest Chinese multi-role fighter Chengdu J-10 "Swift Dragon" was officially released in Beijing. For experts, its relationship with the Israeli Lavi fighter was nothing new .......
    The Jian-10 radar installed aboard the Swift Dragon is actually Israel's ELM-2021 system, as are the fire control systems.

    Tel Aviv supplies target interception and fire control equipment for the Chinese Navy, YF-12A, YJ-62, and YJ-92 cruise missiles, radar systems, airborne radar stations (radar), optical and telecommunications equipment, unmanned aircraft and flight simulators, tank thermal imagers, and Chinese Air Force aircraft are armed with Israeli Python-3 air-to-air missiles.
    In July 2002, observers discovered that China had used Israeli Harpy anti-radar drones in a military exercise in Fujian province.

    Head of the National Defense Academy, General Liu Yajou:
    "If we say that the Air Force is the sword of the state, then Israel is an unsurpassed and excellent swordsman" .....

    http://mnenia.zahav.ru/Articles/4252/kitaisky_drakon_iz_israel
  • Moka
    Moka April 29 2014 01: 16
    +2
    The article does not contain new information, but the reaction is interesting, here on the forum some gentlemen compare 6000000 and 20000000 casualties, as if it was not about people, 20000000 Slavs +6000000 Jews victims of one war and one enemy, and one who easily and sometimes and neglects the loss of life, regardless of the nationality and religion of the deceased, deserves reprimand and disrespect because the grandfathers did not fold their heads so that we could be likened to the Nazis and allowed themselves to be inhuman and insulting, millions of innocent children killed, old men and women do not deserve they were operated on as if they weren’t people, but firewood, what is the difference from the Nazis if we allow ourselves such free judgments, for me it is the one who considers Russians to be subhuman and is not human, but the one who considers Jews to be non-human is nothuman, and indeed judging by my nationality and religion, and not by the truth (good, ancient Russian word and close to all conscientious people) there is an underestimated conductor of the ideas of the Nazis and fascists whom we unanimously condemn, we are not pleased when European politicians distort the essence of the tragedy unfolding among our Ukrainian brothers, helping the Nazis to stay in power and convict them of double standards, but some of them are anti-fascism selective, which is categorically unacceptable, we should not allow ourselves a way of thinking in the fight against which our fathers and grandfathers did not spare the dearest, it is with our brothers in Slavyansk and other cities of eastern Ukraine that it is the way of thinking that is fighting today. , you don’t need bile, malice and malice, only a narrow-minded person wouldn’t want our guys to have such systems at the right time and not on paper, Jews have a very effective military-industrial complex that produces high-quality military products and this should be respected from what we see reality is not what we want to see it, but as it is it will only be better for us, from this, Russian weapons will not get worse, but rather if we are realistically and not virtually, taking into account our own experience and a detailed study of foreign developments, adjust the development of our own military-industrial complex, we can compensate for the lag in some areas and improve the traditionally strong and sometimes strongest directions , the one who believes that he is best of all poses the danger of stagnation and then sliding downhill. Regarding the attitude of Jews to their own army, I have one word, handsome people who want to live should not forget about the army. It is a pity that many forgot that Russian military service was not just a service but also a privilege, I hope it will be so soon, recently much has been done in this direction.
  • Kar Karych
    Kar Karych April 29 2014 09: 07
    +1
    Well Che popcorn is over. The article is about nothing, there is no information on the performance characteristics, there is nothing to do on the links without an interpreter. It’s quite an advertisement. Thank you professor, spent time meaninglessly.
  • CRASHBULLET
    CRASHBULLET 1 May 2014 00: 10
    0
    "launching its own missile, intercepting the enemy's missile (approx. Professor. In fact, it is not an anti-missile, but shock nuclei) that is fired." Poor infantry walking next to the tank.
    1. Kassandra
      Kassandra 1 May 2014 01: 12
      0
      .... wandering .....
  • beifall
    beifall 1 May 2014 16: 08
    -2
    It’s good that we are cooperating with them in the air force, we will start training with them soon! Happy!
  • alim-1975
    alim-1975 12 May 2014 21: 10
    0
    Contrary to opinions about the ineffectiveness of the "iron dome" - in 2011, during the "Cloud Pillar" operation, in front of my eyes, the system intercepted 2 missiles. Throughout southern Israel, people watched the destruction of the Qasams and Grads launched from Gaza. And more than once.
  • waggish
    waggish 19 July 2014 17: 20
    0
    Do everything competently ................. in the mind !!!!!!!!!! 11