Military Review

Indian "Rafal" is more expensive than planned

53
Indian "Rafal" is more expensive than planned

India plans to purchase 126 fighters Rafale faced with "bad weather", according to January aereo.jor.br 27. Two years after winning the tender, the French company Dassault Aviation increased the cost of the aircraft by 100%.


In 2012, Rafale was declared the winner of the competition, the cost of one aircraft was declared in the 60-65 area, million US dollars. However, now its cost can reach 120 million dollars, a source from the Ministry of Defense of India said. The second finalist - Eurofighter Typhoon - announced the price of one aircraft in the amount of 80 to 85 million dollars.

The growth of the contract value will mean that 126 Rafale will cost India no less than 28-30 billion. Indian Defense Minister A.K. Anthony (AK Antony) said that "the value of the contract is out of control, it bothers us." In a few months, the general election of the authorities will be held in India.

In 2007, the tender price was announced in the amount of 12 billion, in January 2012 increased to 18 billion. 18 aircraft must be purchased from France, the rest 108 machines licensed at the aircraft factory in Bangalore.

Indian Air Force sees Rafali as primary fighter fighting force aviation over the next 40 years. “As the chances of signing the contract melt away, we have no other alternative to replace obsolete fighters,” says another source. The military aviation command wants to replace the MiG-21 with modern fighter jets that would stand between the Su-30MKI ("high class") and the LCA Tejas ("low level"). The Air Force has 45 fighter squadrons, but only 30 of them are considered combat-ready due to the decommissioning of outdated fighter types.
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  1. svskor80
    svskor80 28 January 2014 08: 54
    +8
    The Indian Air Force sees the Rafali as the main combat force of fighter aircraft over the next 40 years.

    The Indians are looking somewhere wrong. Why is there a feeling that in 20 years rafal will be like now instant-21. The fifth generation does not need to be seen by the brave Maharajas.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 28 January 2014 11: 20
      +10
      Indians in one place are not ... this ...! either they didn’t like ours, or the French are dear ... But make yourself "vimanas", from elephant poop, cheap and cheerful!
    2. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 28 January 2014 11: 45
      +3
      Quote: svskor80
      The Indians are looking somewhere wrong. Why is there a feeling that in 20 years rafal will be like now instant-21. The fifth generation does not need to be seen by the brave Maharajas.

      The question is price. And the size of the rollback. Apparently, this deal can be canceled, then our drying can again come to this country.
      Although the problem of exporting aircraft in Russia is growing. We urgently need a car from a MIG, just that "middle link".
      1. velikoros-xnumx
        velikoros-xnumx 28 January 2014 14: 14
        +4
        Quote: Gluxar_
        Apparently this deal may be canceled

        Your words, yes to God in ears. If so, then the Mikoyan Design Bureau with the MiG-35 will have the last chance to get out of Pogosyan’s pit. To save KB, you need a 5th generation competitive product of a lighter class than PAK FA, simpler to manufacture, cheaper, possibly with one engine, but for all this, Migu needs a large order now. Given that the 4th generation is slowly starting to depart and large orders for hundreds of cars do not have to wait - India is the last chance (unfortunately, Mig’s Air Force has long been abandoned, and if not for the boat, then ...)
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 28 January 2014 20: 10
          +2
          Yes, MiG has customers. Kazakhstan declared interest from 40 to 90 cars. Azerbaijan requested fighters. And this is only in the CIS. There is a clear sabotage and brake on the MiG-35 project in the person of CHINUSH (as VAF writes, this is Poghosyan - a surname that is consonant with his affairs).
          On the other hand, Russia has no alternative to the MiG-35. I think sooner or later, but will bring to mind. There’s just nowhere to go. A new one in the lung class takes at least 15 years.
          I think that under the Union, the option of co-financing is possible. Of course, a bold forecast. But the Russian Federation alone is hard to pull all promising developments in various industries, so you have to attract allies.
          1. alone
            alone 28 January 2014 23: 02
            0
            That's right. Our people wanted to buy not only the Mig-35, and were also interested in the Su-27 and Su-30. But they refused to us. Well, if the refusal of the dryers could be explained somehow, but why it wasn’t understood about the instant. And they paid it in cash, not loans.
    3. Salamander
      Salamander 28 January 2014 11: 53
      +3
      Quote: svskor80

      The Indians are looking somewhere wrong. Why is there a feeling that in 20 years rafal will be like now instant-21. The fifth generation does not need to be seen by the brave Maharajas.


      Yes, lit them up like little ones! First, they set the price low - the Hindus were delighted, and then once! - and increased by 100%! It's no coincidence ... If they bought our planes, everything would be all right, no, give us the "smuggled goods" ... laughing
      1. patsantre
        patsantre 28 January 2014 13: 20
        0
        Is everything all right? What order could be discussed if they bought a non-existent plane from us?
      2. Botanologist
        Botanologist 28 January 2014 21: 59
        0
        Quote: Salamander
        At first they set a low price - the Hindus rejoiced, and then they won! - and increased by 100%! This is no coincidence ...


        Not by chance. Kickbacks then grow, appetite comes with eating.
        1. bif
          bif 29 January 2014 02: 36
          0
          Quote: Botanologist
          Not by chance. Kickbacks then grow, appetite comes with eating.

          Not without this, of course, but the main reason was the "small" list of "desires" of India, presented to the winner after the tender.
          1. The winner will have to invest 50% of the contract amount in production in India.
          2. The first 18 aircraft are supposed to be delivered to India from abroad, the remaining 108 should be assembled by the Indian aircraft manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL)
          This includes technology transfer, licensed assembly and subsequent service in India. For such "gingerbread" the French decided to take the "exorbitant price" (the amount of the tender in 2007 was $ 10,5 billion, and now ..)
    4. AVV
      AVV 28 January 2014 13: 27
      +2
      Quote: svskor80
      The Indian Air Force sees the Rafali as the main combat force of fighter aircraft over the next 40 years.

      The Indians are looking somewhere wrong. Why is there a feeling that in 20 years rafal will be like now instant-21. The fifth generation does not need to be seen by the brave Maharajas.

      MIG-35 is no worse than Raphael, but in some ways even better !!! Designers could be brought to the level of customer requirements and it will be cheaper !!!
    5. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 28 January 2014 22: 55
      0
      Quote: svskor80
      The Indian Air Force sees the Rafali as the main combat force of fighter aircraft over the next 40 years.

      The Indians are looking somewhere wrong. Why is there a feeling that in 20 years rafal will be like now instant-21. The fifth generation does not need to be seen by the brave Maharajas.


      Where they turned their head there and look - at Peugeot America.
  2. kotdavin4i
    kotdavin4i 28 January 2014 08: 54
    +5
    Good morning to all, the Indians laughed. They reached for cheap ... There were options a little more expensive then, BUT now the price would not rise.
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 28 January 2014 19: 20
      0
      Quote: kotdavin4i
      There were options a little more expensive then, BUT now the price would not rise.

      And how did you sign the contract, so that the price tag jumped by 100?
      Judging by the fact that they did not provide for such an option, cunning Frenchmen could include 300%!
      1. Salamander
        Salamander 28 January 2014 20: 12
        +1
        Yeah, you buy sausage in the store, and at the checkout - our prices have risen 100%! laughing
  3. Ihrek
    Ihrek 28 January 2014 09: 06
    +3
    Why didn’t they arrange our planes interestingly?
    1. DEfindER
      DEfindER 28 January 2014 10: 44
      +6
      Quote: Jamal1974
      Why didn’t they arrange our planes interestingly?

      I’m also interested, the MiG-21 has served them faithfully for 50 years and is still in service .. I feel that our aviation managers who go under the hoot do not really try to push Migi onto the world market, but drying actively sold .. at the same time I do not think that such poor countries as India would refuse cheap and reliable Mig family aircraft .. something is wrong, maybe the paddles on the paw gave, and not only to the Indians, but also to ours ..
      1. SibRUS
        SibRUS 28 January 2014 11: 23
        0
        .. something is wrong here, maybe the paddlers gave on the paw, and not only to the Indians, but also to ours ..

        after winning the tender, the French company Dassault Aviation increased the cost of the aircraft by 100%

        Or maybe only ours! What kind of inconsistencies did the MIG have in the tender?
      2. SibRUS
        SibRUS 28 January 2014 11: 23
        0
        .. something is wrong here, maybe the paddlers gave on the paw, and not only to the Indians, but also to ours ..

        after winning the tender, the French company Dassault Aviation increased the cost of the aircraft by 100%

        Or maybe only ours! What kind of inconsistencies did the MIG have in the tender?
      3. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 28 January 2014 11: 51
        0
        Quote: DEfindER
        at the same time, I don’t think that such poor countries as India would give up cheap and reliable Mig family aircraft .. something is wrong, maybe the paddles on the paw gave, and not only to the Indians, but also to ours ..

        The fact that there is a lot of corruption has already been publicized more than once, so the French are ahead of everyone else in this matter. For France, this contract is vital to maintain its own aircraft industry. The industries will fail, too, because they were not trifling with kickbacks. Today, by increasing the cost, they are trying to "return their own".

        As for the MiGs, then India is just buying them, but only deck modifications. Unfortunately, MIG cannot give the market a decent engine of the class 4+ generation light fighter, which would be relevant for at least the next 20-30 years.
    2. rolik2
      rolik2 28 January 2014 10: 47
      +2
      Because there is no aircraft of this class and level ready for serial production, and is it not a fact that when upgrading to a serial model, the price of the Mig-35 will not rise?
  4. Roman_Romanich
    Roman_Romanich 28 January 2014 09: 07
    +3
    Maybe they will change their minds and still buy our MIGs?
    1. Retx
      Retx 28 January 2014 09: 21
      0
      There are such rumors.
    2. avg
      avg 28 January 2014 13: 18
      +2
      Quote: Romann_Romanich
      Maybe they will change their minds and still buy our MIGs?

      Fly to the MiG-29K / KUB, they will elect a new government, and there the MiG 35 will go into series.
  5. slavik_gross
    slavik_gross 28 January 2014 09: 12
    +3
    They told you to take Migi, and you are all Rafale yes Rafale ... Mig 35 !!!
    1. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 28 January 2014 09: 19
      +7
      Rafal is in the series, and the Mig project, which could of course become a series thanks to this order, but with all the pitfalls of unforeseen expenses and indefinite periods that accompany the introduction of a new product into the series, and even the introduction of a logically unprofitable money decision.
      1. DEfindER
        DEfindER 28 January 2014 10: 50
        +5
        Quote: Kyrgyz
        Rafal is in the series, and the Mig project, which could of course become a series thanks to this order

        You are right about Mig's account, but according to Rafal, as it turned out, the Indian version is also not entirely serial, since its price has already exceeded the 5th generation airplanes ..
    2. The comment was deleted.
  6. marder4
    marder4 28 January 2014 09: 37
    +2
    Rafal and for 40 years is an illusion
  7. Dmitriy85
    Dmitriy85 28 January 2014 09: 38
    +2
    There is a second finalist - Eurofighter Typhoon. Perhaps they will buy it.
  8. Ivan Petrovich
    Ivan Petrovich 28 January 2014 10: 03
    +3
    and how on our first channel they shouted about this tender ... shared the skin of an unkilled bear, so to speak
  9. ilya_oz
    ilya_oz 28 January 2014 10: 03
    +3
    Hindus were deceived) So they need it: they often think of someone whose equipment to buy and are dissatisfied with their cooperation with us.
  10. akv0571
    akv0571 28 January 2014 10: 19
    -4
    The Hindus abandoned the MIGs, because it is impossible to depend on only one country.
    Tomorrow suddenly troubles with Russia and the scribe of the whole technique.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 28 January 2014 10: 46
      0
      Tomorrow suddenly troubles with Russia and the scribe of the whole technique.
      And with Europe, they can’t have troubles by definition? Just the likelihood of problems with Europe is much higher than with Russia. And how financially it will add problems! If already thrown with the price. What's next?
    2. vvp2412
      vvp2412 28 January 2014 11: 39
      +1
      In addition to troubles, cost optimization is always provided, i.e. bringing the fleet of military equipment to one unit to make maintenance easier. No one has canceled logistics.
      And given that the Hindus are great, they do not buy equipment, but licenses for production, i.e. yourself can rivet, then the troubles can be minimal!
      Only the equipment delivered from their own country is served. The manufactured equipment in India is served by Indians.
      1. Vilor
        Vilor 28 January 2014 12: 36
        0
        I agree, well done that they localize production at home, but just read how and what. Not inclined to believe 100%, but even the gur khan wrote that they could not fully master the release of the T-90. Although, of course, everything comes with experience. True, from the article, as I understand it, "Rafale" is below the level of the Su-30. Despite the fact that it costs more. Then, forgive me, I don't understand at all, they take the expensive "middle" class, although they can take the cheaper "high" class of the Su-30?
        1. patsantre
          patsantre 28 January 2014 13: 22
          +1
          Do you have exact real prices?
        2. velikoros-xnumx
          velikoros-xnumx 28 January 2014 14: 20
          +2
          Quote: Vilor
          True, from the article, as I understand it, "Rafale" is below the level of the Su-30. Despite the fact that it costs more. Then, forgive me, I don't understand at all, they take the expensive "middle" class, although they can take the cheaper "high" class of the Su-30?

          As I understand it, it was not about the price, but the weight category - light tejas, heavy Su, but Rafal (Mig) exactly between them.
          1. patsantre
            patsantre 29 January 2014 00: 38
            0
            So after all, a heavy fighter in itself is much better and more serious than an average one. Another thing is that it is more expensive. The truth is, the guy took the prices from the wiki, and there the bullshit is complete in this regard.
  11. REDBLUE
    REDBLUE 28 January 2014 10: 28
    0
    Threw the Indians. And they have been considering it for another 40 years. It is necessary to tie. There are MIGs there are DRY. Why RAPHAEL?
  12. Russ69
    Russ69 28 January 2014 10: 30
    +4
    The greed of the paddling pool will destroy ... Another year of trading and the Rafalka will become the most expensive plane in the world ... smile
    1. DEfindER
      DEfindER 28 January 2014 10: 55
      +4
      Quote: Russ69
      Another year of trading and the Rafalka will become the most expensive aircraft in the world ...

      Now it is inferior in price only to the raptor, so if the Indians basically do not want to take ours, let the F-35 take in order to save, F-35A = $ 83,4 million.
      1. vvp2412
        vvp2412 28 January 2014 11: 36
        +1
        F35 - has not yet shown specific numbers! :) So far, only pre-production samples! So the price increase is still ahead, because full of willing to give it up! :)
  13. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 28 January 2014 11: 05
    +1
    "Bachily eyes sho took, teper iishte" - a Ukrainian proverb.
  14. awg75
    awg75 28 January 2014 11: 11
    +1
    there is such an old but very faithful proverb among the Russian people --- MISCLEAN PAYS TWICE !! I think in this situation it fits perfectly and I think that is what Rajam needs
  15. yehat
    yehat 28 January 2014 11: 17
    0
    Rafal has become more expensive due to the failure of trading in Brazil. To beat off R&D and other costs, you need a specific amount from sales. Because the volume fell, the price of 1 car took off.
    For the same reason, our PAK FA has become more expensive, after the tricks of the Indians.
  16. Nayhas
    Nayhas 28 January 2014 11: 34
    +5
    I think you should not make hasty conclusions based on an article in a Brazilian newspaper. While the correspondent himself does not indicate sources in India or France, where did he get the data about the allegedly increased cost of Rafaley. There is nothing of the kind in the Indian press. They write about ongoing negotiations on establishing production and the final price for everything. It seems that negotiations will take place for about three months, a team of representatives of Dassault, Thales and Snecma came to Bangalore to work with HAL.
    So far, there is no hint of a break in the deal, although against the background of Grippen’s victory in Brazil and the preferences that SAAB provided, it would be worth considering.
  17. vvp2412
    vvp2412 28 January 2014 11: 34
    +1
    The French were worse than Odessa Jews! :)
    Well, okay there by 10-20 well, 50% increase the cost, and they are so "modest" by 100%! :)
    And we are amazed that we win tenders at low prices, and then invoice to the fullest! :)))))

    Indians now seem to bite their elbows because they squeezed Russia out of the tender. Our Su35 is already being commissioned, and cheaper. And they still will not sign a contract in any way, but they are bred into grandmothers like suckers! :)
    1. Dmitriy85
      Dmitriy85 28 January 2014 12: 40
      +1
      What makes you think that they bite their elbows there? laughing
    2. Dmitriy85
      Dmitriy85 28 January 2014 12: 40
      +1
      What makes you think that they bite their elbows there? laughing
    3. patsantre
      patsantre 28 January 2014 13: 23
      +2
      Is the Su-35 here anyway?
  18. DNX1970
    DNX1970 28 January 2014 12: 45
    +2
    let them fly on a carpet-plane if our MIGs are not satisfied good
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 28 January 2014 13: 24
      +1
      There are plenty of great alternatives besides Mig.
    2. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 28 January 2014 14: 22
      +1
      Quote: DNX1970
      let them fly on a carpet-plane if our MIGs are not satisfied

      Her vimanas have been on conservation since the time of the Nepisan scripture of the Kama Sutra. laughing
  19. Mercenary
    Mercenary 28 January 2014 14: 11
    +1
    Avaricious pays twice. Good luck to the Indians!
  20. Lesorub
    Lesorub 28 January 2014 18: 28
    +2
    Hindus Gloriously - LITTLE !!!
  21. ankh-andrej
    ankh-andrej 28 January 2014 19: 31
    +2
    MiG-35 idea just for the Indian tender. They would win the tender, there would be funds for fine-tuning and production of an inexpensive fighter. Including for their own Air Force. The Indians sent us and thereby slowed down the 35th. I sincerely wish that this so-called deal of the century crawled out to the Indians sideways. Very cunning partners.
  22. sanitar80
    sanitar80 28 January 2014 19: 58
    0
    Ours sold the aircraft carrier to India for 1 billion dollars after the start of work on the "Wicca", the price has crept as a result of -2,5 billion. What, too, are we going to shout how vile Russians threw Hindus?
    1. alone
      alone 28 January 2014 23: 04
      0
      Quote: sanitar80
      Ours sold the aircraft carrier to India for 1 billion dollars after the start of work on the "Wicca", the price has crept as a result of -2,5 billion. What, too, are we going to shout how vile Russians threw Hindus?

      wink Well, you also compared)) such facts are not approved here)) laughing
  23. The comment was deleted.