Military Review

The Chinese have created an analogue of the ORM

84
The first issue of the Binzi Chinese magazine for 2014 published a photo of a prototype of the J-15 carrier-based fighter (tail number 556), equipped with the Chinese analogue of the Russian Unified Refueling Aerial Suspension Unit (UPAZ), which allows its carrier to refuel other aircraft. UPAZ was developed at the Zvezda Scientific and Production Enterprise in the 1970s and early 1980s, and the Su-24 front-line bomber became its first carrier. The carriers of various modifications of the unit are also Russian carrier-based Su-33 and MiG-29K / KUB fighters. Thus, the Chinese reproduced this element of equipment for Russian deck aircraft. The question remains how widely the Chinese intend to use the unit - it will remain only a deck accessory aviationor it is planned to promote it both in coastal naval aviation and in the air force. Currently, the only Chinese refueling vehicles are the few modified H-6U bombers, limited purchases of IL-78 in Ukraine and conversion of individual IL-76 planes to refueling with Ukrainian help are being carried out. In addition, the prospective Y-20 military transport aircraft currently undergoing flight tests is also seen as a platform for the future refueling aircraft.


The Chinese have created an analogue of the ORM

Chinese fighter J-15 with ORM (c) xinhuanet.com
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  1. Mizhgan
    Mizhgan 21 January 2014 11: 43
    +50
    Probably more correct: they did not create, but tore off.
    1. Civil
      Civil 21 January 2014 11: 55
      +18
      At that pace, soon the Chinese and Ukrainians will fake,
      1. Andrey57
        Andrey57 21 January 2014 12: 35
        +42
        And the Ukrainians do not need to be forged, they are already merging everything in a row, the Chinese began to build the second aircraft carrier only after the Ukrainians merged them with aerofineries, which they immediately put on the Varyag, providing them with full access to the line, although they knew that Russia refused to supply the Chinese with this equipment. In the same way, the Ukrainians leaked the deck drying to the same Chinese. So for now, we sip a full spoonful of "jam" from the brothers. The consequences of the fact that there was a single country. A dozen of such brothers and enemies are not needed.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. rolik2
          rolik2 21 January 2014 13: 30
          -31%
          Quote: Andrey57
          although they knew that Russia refused the Chinese to supply this equipment.

          You are so strange, and what if Russia refused them this, then Ukraine should lose money on this? The laws of business if you do not sell then others will sell.
          Quote: Andrey57
          In the same way, Ukrainians leaked deck drying to the same Chinese.

          Well, you went even further and built a Su-27 assembly line for them and gave out all the drying documentation, after which your moaning about the Ukrainians looks a bit fluid.
          Maybe stop looking for excuses?
          1. mirag2
            mirag2 21 January 2014 17: 25
            +14
            Laws of business?
            Maybe you confuse them with permissiveness?
            Why won't the British sell us, for example, some US-made rockets? We wouldn't be stingy "according to the laws of business!"
            That's what Primakov said about that liberals confuse liberalization in the economy with permissiveness.
            Complete freedom = lawlessness.
            1. rolik2
              rolik2 21 January 2014 17: 39
              -6
              Quote: mirag2
              Maybe you confuse them with permissiveness?

              I don’t confuse her, but what do you want to buy them? They wanted ivek - they bought it, they wanted Mistral - please just pay money.
              You had the opportunity to sell drying to the Chinese (like the Indians in Migi) to get money for them and then even for logistics streak coupons, so there’s no reason to say I don’t know why it didn’t burn out.
              1. Old_kapitan
                Old_kapitan 21 January 2014 23: 50
                0
                You had the opportunity to sell drying to the Chinese (like the Indians in Migi) to get money for them and then even for logistics streak coupons, so there’s no reason to say I don’t know why it didn’t burn out.
                No, well, you go a little? The Chinese sho sell, sho free to give - all are one. They never buy a solid lot like India does. They will take piece copies and urgently start tearing them off, putting a bolt with a left thread on your logistics with coupons.
              2. Evgenij.
                Evgenij. 22 January 2014 05: 02
                0
                They wanted to buy Opel, but did not sell
      2. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx 21 January 2014 14: 16
        +2
        In what sense?
        Organize their Independence Square? smile
    2. waisson
      waisson 21 January 2014 13: 28
      +3
      they rip off and create and we do not create and do not rip off we are only trying and what was created now is the best created in the period of the USSR by our fathers and grandfathers
    3. dmitrij.blyuz
      dmitrij.blyuz 21 January 2014 14: 16
      +2
      Ours was torn off again. The Ukrainians in their perspective. Just to pinch more painfully. Although I am not happy about the success of the Chinese, but their megalomania makes me wonder. Yes, I don’t know what to put in the article. recourse
      1. rolik2
        rolik2 21 January 2014 16: 04
        -10%
        Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
        Again ripped off ours. The Ukrainians in their perspective.

        Who's guilty? of course a whistle laughing
        What does Ukraine have to do with it? Did she sell YOUR UPAZ to China? And by chance, they did not go with those Su-27s that YOU sold to the Chinese?
        1. Evgenij.
          Evgenij. 22 January 2014 05: 05
          +1
          Russia is the legal successor of the USSR, and we paid the debts. So what the hell is the common heritage and the debts are ours. Comrades greyhound shamelessly, and still swing the rights.
    4. VAF
      VAF 21 January 2014 19: 34
      +2
      Quote: Mijgan
      Probably more correct: they did not create, but tore off.


      A little off topic. Although ... in some komentom respected Dmitry also mentioned the Chinese railways. but I can’t find it, so right here:

      I read with pleasure today's on-line report of Varlamov about the journey on the Russian Railways train, highly recommended, everything with photos, no photos of toads. get ... "pleasure"!

      Direct link:
      http://zyalt.livejournal.com/980728.html#cutid1
      1. Jager
        Jager 21 January 2014 22: 20
        +1
        What can I say - "these Moscow sissies" are quite zazhralis! I wish I could put him on the Moscow-Nikolaev train, I travel every summer in a reserved seat. This is extreme! The author simply does not understand that a trip to the Russian Federation and the fraternal republics is an adventure in itself!
    5. Nick
      Nick 21 January 2014 20: 27
      +1
      Quote: Mijgan
      Probably more correct: they did not create, but tore off.

      The Chinese know how to copy like no other ...
    6. AVV
      AVV 21 January 2014 20: 51
      +1
      They steal scoundrels, they steal, everyone has everything in succession, from America via the Internet, from Ukraine they buy individual samples and then they rip off, the Bison confirms this, including ours !!! You don’t need to sell anything new in less than 10 years !!! Let the brains themselves include, otherwise they only have to rip off and programmed !!!
      1. Old_kapitan
        Old_kapitan 22 January 2014 06: 47
        0
        It is not necessary to sell something new earlier than years through 10 !!!
        That's right! The main thing for you now is not to sell it yourself, otherwise you are sinful ... And so - it's okay. Well, Ukraine has sold. Well, what did she sell worthless? What remains after the union, i.e. outdated samples. The Chinese will copy - stopudovo will be even worse. No, well, a trick, of course, who is arguing? But when Russia expresses its intention to sell something new (it has been discussed more than once), here I’m at an impasse, and already nenoko somehow anger and not really ...
    7. de klermon
      de klermon 21 January 2014 21: 30
      0
      The Chinese are stealing? Well, they need to be quicker ...
      drained? So they need money ...
      We don't build our own? So, the main thing is investment attractiveness and profitability (this is against the background of the fact that once every half a year the "responsible" persons get confused in their testimonies whether we need an aircraft carrier fleet) ...
      It’s possible to understand everyone! ..
      And on the soul ...
      After such news, it’s disgusting ... Nauseous! .. You can’t measure everything in money! You won’t translate everything into political interest! Little Russians brothers, when do you end up with a hangover? President Putin, it seems to us for a long time to come, when will you expel the Medvedev-liberal shobla to a mother of ... When will we be engaged in PRODUCTION, and not in individual crafts? In the meantime ...
      So far, gentlemen, filthy in my heart! .. As from some kind of betrayal ...
    8. Cormorants
      Cormorants 22 January 2014 06: 30
      0
      Poured Su-33
  2. T-100
    T-100 21 January 2014 11: 43
    +1
    UPAZ was developed at NPP Zvezda in the 1970s - early 1980s

    For a long time they digested))))
  3. Antibrim
    Antibrim 21 January 2014 11: 49
    +2
    probably bought everything from Ukraine, there are also those still amateurs to sell something.
    1. Sergh
      Sergh 21 January 2014 13: 17
      +2
      Quote: AntiBrim
      there are also those still lovers to sell something.

      There is a saying:
      -Ukrainian was born, a Jew cried!
      1. alex-s
        alex-s 21 January 2014 13: 41
        0
        And I heard this: "A Tatar was born, a Jew began to cry."
      2. chudoudodelt
        chudoudodelt 21 January 2014 14: 38
        -1
        ha ha what a funny racist joke (
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 21 January 2014 21: 32
          +2
          Quote: chudoudodelt
          ha ha what a funny racist joke

          not understood, recourse ... Tatars, Russians, Jews, Ukrainians in any way outgrown nations into races? .. Don’t worry, this is just a joke and not realities of life wink .
  4. operrus
    operrus 21 January 2014 11: 49
    +1
    When they finally begin to create new things and not steal. And they steal defense equipment mainly from Russia.
    1. Ihrek
      Ihrek 21 January 2014 12: 25
      +2
      Since they steal ours, then ours is better.
      1. Scorpio
        Scorpio 21 January 2014 14: 02
        +9
        Quote: Jamal1974
        Since they steal ours, then ours is better.


        Or maybe just guarded sucks
      2. Nayhas
        Nayhas 21 January 2014 14: 49
        +1
        Quote: Jamal1974
        Since they steal ours, then ours is better.

        What a naive ... It's just that others cannot steal, since 1989. arms embargo on China.
        1. dustycat
          dustycat 21 January 2014 17: 24
          +2
          Since 1970, Russia has had an embargo on the latest American developments. And what?
          Do you know how many "kreits" entered the USSR through the same South Africa since the introduction of that embargo?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Skiff_spb
      Skiff_spb 21 January 2014 12: 25
      +7
      Rejoice while they steal. And I hope that in the future they will only copy and copy, and not do their own thing better.
      1. alex-s
        alex-s 21 January 2014 13: 43
        +1
        The main thing is not to come and not be taken away by force!
        1. Scorpio
          Scorpio 22 January 2014 11: 05
          0
          Let’s bring them all the new ones ourselves, so that we don’t take it by force, ok?
      2. alexng
        alexng 21 January 2014 16: 36
        0
        Any copy is always worse than the original.
      3. alexng
        alexng 21 January 2014 16: 36
        +1
        Any copy is always worse than the original.
    4. rolik2
      rolik2 21 January 2014 13: 03
      -2
      Quote: operrus
      When they finally begin to create new things and not steal. And they steal defense equipment mainly from Russia.

      Maybe stop whining and talking nonsense here?
      UPAZ was developed at NPP Zvezda in the 1970s - early 1980s

      Does it not seem absurd to you that they copy a product from 70-80?
      The fact that their device looks like UPAZ does not yet say that it is copied from it.
  5. So_o_tozh
    So_o_tozh 21 January 2014 11: 50
    +4
    I don’t even know if it’s good that we are cooperating with China, on the one hand it is economically profitable, but on the other hand, selling military secrets to a potential enemy ...
    1. Onizuka teacher
      Onizuka teacher 21 January 2014 11: 54
      -1
      Quote: So_o_tozh
      I don’t even know if it’s good that we are cooperating with China, on the one hand it is economically profitable, but on the other hand, selling military secrets to a potential enemy ...

      Ukraine has already sold all the secrets to China. Take a look to the west, there is a potential enemy who deployed troops and bought tanks.
      1. Tiamat2702
        Tiamat2702 21 January 2014 12: 02
        0
        )))) Who is buying Western tanks in Europe (except Poland)?
        1. Salamander
          Salamander 21 January 2014 12: 58
          +13
          Terrible Balts! Well, not tanks ...laughing
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Saburo
      Saburo 21 January 2014 12: 35
      +3
      Only in which case the Chinese with the help of technologies sold by Ukraine will go to our Far East. And Ukraine, on the other side of the globe, will most likely publicly express its indignation with an act of aggression, and this will end there.
      1. Old_kapitan
        Old_kapitan 22 January 2014 06: 55
        +1
        China for the period 2005-2012 took second place among the largest countries-importers of Russian weapons with a share indicator of 17,43%.

        And where is that Ukraine with its scrap metal during perestroika? Guys, let's be honest at least to ourselves. Last year, the 24 Chinese tried to suck in pieces of Su-35, and all over the Ukrainian Su-27 tears pour ...
        Threat. You can minus, you do not get used to it. True, she stabs in the eyes.
  6. samoletil18
    samoletil18 21 January 2014 12: 12
    +12
    And why the article is minus one! Is it the author that UPAZ stole, not the Chinese?
    1. Ihrek
      Ihrek 21 January 2014 12: 27
      +5
      Apparently evil laughing rip off the author
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. VAF
      VAF 21 January 2014 13: 40
      +3
      Quote: samoletil18
      And then the article why minus


      For ... "OPAZ on Su-33" soldier
    4. smile
      smile 21 January 2014 14: 30
      +1
      samoletil18
      Well, before a messenger who brought bad news could have filled lead in the throat ... :))) Apparently the adherents of such actions still survived .... :)))
      So, that the author should be glad that he got off only with minus signs :))) And in general - he stole the UPAZ, not he - the sediment remained ... :)))
      I’d tell you that we’ve stole something from someone - there would be some pluses ... :)))
      1. Old_kapitan
        Old_kapitan 22 January 2014 06: 41
        +1
        And in general - he stole the UPAZ, not he - the sediment remained ... :)))

        Nah, better like that:

        "Either he stole his overcoat, or his overcoat was stolen ... but not to present to the next rank"
  7. vkrav
    vkrav 21 January 2014 12: 23
    0
    So created, or
    the Chinese reproduced this element of equipment for Russian deck aircraft
    ??
  8. sscha
    sscha 21 January 2014 12: 26
    +4
    In the photo of the Chinese, it seems, only the identification marks .... belay
    If we put ours - will anyone notice the difference? !!! hi
  9. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 21 January 2014 12: 47
    +2
    I have already said before that these are just flowers, berries will come later. Something they will copy, they will buy, something cn ....., but in the end only the result is important.
  10. Marconi41
    Marconi41 21 January 2014 12: 50
    0
    Quote: Onizuka's teacher
    Quote: So_o_tozh
    I don’t even know if it’s good that we are cooperating with China, on the one hand it is economically profitable, but on the other hand, selling military secrets to a potential enemy ...

    Ukraine has already sold all the secrets to China. Take a look to the west, there is a potential enemy who deployed troops and bought tanks.


    Does anyone else think that we will fight with China with conventional weapons ?! Their reconnaissance squad will not even notice how the entire Far East Military District will pass. So let them arm there as much as they want. They need to resolve issues with Japan, Vietnam, etc. As long as we still have nuclear weapons, the Chinese with conventional weapons will not snoop on us. They don’t know that in which case the choice of the Russian Federation is small, and after this choice the number of Chinese in the world can drop sharply.
    1. alex-s
      alex-s 21 January 2014 13: 47
      +1
      After that amount all drop sharply!
  11. Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 21 January 2014 12: 55
    +5
    The Chinese today are sick of ... Whatever article - China. sad
    1. 2014Bog2014
      2014Bog2014 21 January 2014 13: 44
      0
      I totally agree with you, will everyone support me? yes
  12. REDBLUE
    REDBLUE 21 January 2014 13: 42
    +1
    Quote: rolik2
    You are so strange, and what if Russia refused them this, then Ukraine should lose money on this? The laws of business if you do not sell then others will sell.

    Dear this aircraft carrier was created during the USSR, the equipment on it is Russian. Therefore, selling such things to a potential adversary is no longer the law of business.
    1. rolik2
      rolik2 21 January 2014 14: 03
      0
      Well, why didn’t you buy it?
      What was Ukraine to do with it? Put on scrap metal? So this was done, they sold it at the price of scrap metal with self-delivery.

      Quote: REDBLUE
      equipment on it is Russian

      laughing the whole union worked for him so you don’t try on the assets of the union

      Quote: REDBLUE
      Therefore, selling such things to a potential adversary is no longer the law of business.

      The aircraft-carrying cruisers "Kiev", "Minsk", "Novorosiysk" sold before etim Russia do not strongly confirm your words.
    2. Old_kapitan
      Old_kapitan 22 January 2014 07: 03
      +1
      Dear this aircraft carrier was created during the USSR, the equipment on it is Russian.
      No, well you give: created at the USSRand equipment - Russian! laughing Do you even understand what you said?
  13. REDBLUE
    REDBLUE 21 January 2014 13: 44
    0
    But to be honest, this China has already lifted up today. Really some articles about him
  14. Andrey77
    Andrey77 21 January 2014 13: 50
    +2
    Ripped off or bought a license - what's the difference. China muscle pumps.
  15. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 21 January 2014 14: 01
    0
    The Chinese are true to themselves! wassat
  16. frame5
    frame5 21 January 2014 14: 17
    +8
    For the sake of our good, we must shove our arrogance deeper into the jo.
    The Chinese, at least, are already at our level of technology. Already in this decade they will bypass us. Look at the international olympiads in mathematics and physics, the first places there are all Chinese.
    We need to stop looking for excuses and excuses, China is the most serious threat to Russia. The Chinese are no worse and stupid than us, to think so is historical suicide.
  17. zen1963
    zen1963 21 January 2014 14: 20
    +1
    This is what an idiot you have to be in order to continue selling new equipment to the Chinese! Does Putin really not understand that they are preparing for war? They have long considered Siberia their territory and children in schools have said so. A huge army is kept on the border, and this Putin removed the troops from there and destroyed the fortifications. Who is this? Pest?
  18. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 21 January 2014 14: 21
    +2
    Well ripped off and ripped off. The main thing is that sexual orientation in relation to Russia would not change. And what they solve there on the Pacific Ocean, with the Japanese and Koreans, is a little out of our business.
  19. Altona
    Altona 21 January 2014 14: 24
    +1
    Hmm ... The "shoulders" of the Chinese Air Force are growing ... The shoulder-range of the patrol route ...
  20. amber-50
    amber-50 21 January 2014 14: 30
    +6
    Remember how the Chinese auto industry rose. These were copies, copies, and again copies. But ten years have not passed, and what do we see? And we see models completely designed from scratch that are practically not inferior in quality and characteristics to many foreign models and are head and shoulders superior to our Lada. So it will be with armaments, we will first learn from copies and licenses, take from there (we will understand how this is done) the best and in years ... eleven will begin to do their job no worse than similar world ones.
  21. REDBLUE
    REDBLUE 21 January 2014 14: 31
    -1
    Quote: rolik2
    Well, why didn’t you buy it?
    What was Ukraine to do with it? Put on scrap metal? So this was done, they sold it at the price of scrap metal with self-delivery.

    Quote: REDBLUE
    equipment on it is Russian

    laughing the whole union worked for him so you don’t try on the assets of the union

    Quote: REDBLUE
    Therefore, selling such things to a potential adversary is no longer the law of business.

    The aircraft-carrying cruisers "Kiev", "Minsk", "Novorosiysk" sold before etim Russia do not strongly confirm your words.


    First, the union worked mainly in the RSFSR, the rest who worked specify. None of the republics made great influence on the scientific and technological progress and development of the USSR.
    Secondly, those ships were sold with weapons removed.
    The heavy aircraft-carrying cruisers “Kiev” and “Minsk”, sold abroad at the price of scrap metal, now adorn entertainment parks in the People's Republic of China. "Kiev" props the mooring wall in Tianjin. His twin became part of the Minsk World theme park in Shenzhen.
    The aircraft carrier "Novorossiysk" was disarmed and expelled from the Russian Navy, sold to a South Korean company for scrap, taken to the port of Pusan ​​and subsequently dismantled for scrap.
    So that is all true.
    1. rolik2
      rolik2 21 January 2014 16: 11
      +4
      Quote: REDBLUE
      First, the union worked mainly in the RSFSR, the rest who worked specify.

      Afiget, in declared laughing you would tell bedtime stories to children. Maybe I’ll open my eyes to you, but ALL aircraft-carrying cruisers were built in Ukraine (dofiga of enterprises not only in the RSFSR but also in other republics participated in their construction)

      Quote: REDBLUE
      Secondly, those ships were sold with weapons removed.

      So "Varyag" was sold WITHOUT weapons and at the price of scrap metal, and with self-delivery laughing
      Or do you think that the same Minsk and Kiev were sold without documentation and they were not studied by Chinese comrades? So why are you moaning that?
    2. Old_kapitan
      Old_kapitan 22 January 2014 07: 08
      0
      First, the union worked mainly in the RSFSR
      Are you shy? belay
  22. Altona
    Altona 21 January 2014 14: 47
    +3
    Quote: REDBLUE
    None of the republics made great influence on the scientific and technological progress and development of the USSR.

    ---------------------------------
    Shipbuilding facilities were located mainly in Nikolaev (Ukraine), aircraft and rocketry were also partially based in Ukraine, and also do not forget the tanks of the plant named after him. Malysheva (Kharkov) ...
    1. REDBLUE
      REDBLUE 21 January 2014 15: 25
      0
      The factory in Nikolaev was originally supposed to produce cars and boilers for ships and ships built in Nikolaev for the Black Sea Fleet.
      That's the whole layout. The Black Sea Fleet was originally an original Russian fleet. And the famous Russian admirals raised it. Built there due to territorial convenience. Therefore, it was built under the Russian fleet.
      Plant them. Malysheva (Kharkov) was built specifically for the production of steam locomotives for Russian state-owned railways.
      From 1928 to 1931, T-24 tanks were produced; since 1931 - light tanks of the BT series: BT-2; BT-5; BT-7; BT-7M - produced in 1940; from 1933 to 1939 - heavy tanks of the T-35 series.
      Chief designer of the Kharkov plant Morozov Alexander Alexandrovich. Born in the suburbs of Bryansk. Russia. Studied in Moscow.
      In 1939, Mikhail Koshkin created the best medium tank of World War II - the T-34.
      Mikhail Koshkin was born the village of Brynchagi, Yaroslavl province. This is again Russia.
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  23. Nayhas
    Nayhas 21 January 2014 14: 53
    0
    Currently, the only Chinese refueling vehicles are the few modified H-6U bombers, limited purchases of IL-78 in Ukraine and conversion of individual IL-76 planes to refueling with Ukrainian help are being carried out. In addition, the prospective Y-20 military transport aircraft currently undergoing flight tests is also being considered as a platform for the future refueling aircraft.

    China is copying not only technology, but also mistakes. Use transport aircraft as idiocy refueling ...
    1. boom_bah
      boom_bah 21 January 2014 15: 13
      0
      In fact, almost all tankers in the world are based on military transport aircraft.
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 21 January 2014 22: 03
        +1
        Quote: boom_bah
        In fact, almost all tankers in the world are based on military transport aircraft.

        In fact, passenger aircraft are taken as the base for cheaper ones.
  24. CAMS
    CAMS 21 January 2014 15: 26
    -1
    the Chinese have not yet been able to create an analogue of our engine for drying, so while they are behind in terms of those. thoughts
  25. zollstab
    zollstab 21 January 2014 16: 20
    +1
    Quote: KAMS
    the Chinese have not yet been able to create an analogue of our engine for drying, so while they are behind in terms of those. thoughts

    THE WEAKEST LINK OF THIS STATEMENT -WORD: UNTIL:
  26. duchy
    duchy 21 January 2014 16: 38
    +1
    Guys!! The Chinese are well aware of the situation on our planet; whoever is weak will disappear, but they want to live well and, well, good. It lives well for those who will not be attacked or who will be afraid. Knowing that new developments and studies take the lion's share of the time for the development of the nation and resources, as any state normally, tries to make this path shorter and cheaper. And this is copyright in the most insolent form, nor looking back at the reaction of any states. They do this and will do so, until everyone sniffs into holes and remains silent, until they are well warmed with a club for such behavior. am
  27. CAMS
    CAMS 21 January 2014 17: 02
    0
    I don’t argue that for now it’s for the time being, but still, in that they can’t put their engines on their planes, it’s clear that with technology in China it’s not so rosy because you can’t make a breakthrough on empty copying, like bam and here you have an absolutely unimaginable novelty for this you need a base and modernization, and the product that we sell them is waste material. yes, and in the end the United States should have not one well-armed enemy, but we are an ally
  28. servant.
    servant. 21 January 2014 18: 08
    +2
    Quote: KAMS
    I don’t argue that for now it’s for the time being, but still, in that they can’t put their engines on their planes, it’s clear that with technology in China it’s not so rosy because you can’t make a breakthrough on empty copying, like bam and here you have an absolutely unimaginable novelty for this you need a base and modernization, and the product that we sell them is waste material. yes, and in the end the United States should have not one well-armed enemy, but we are an ally

    Well, with engines in the former USSR, too, was not very. The MIG-15 was equipped with an English Rolls-Royce Ning, which was then copied and produced by us, but was significantly inferior to the English in terms of resource and characteristics. The first jet engines were generally German. What are the engines on the Yak-42 airplane? And their later modernization on the AN-148? China takes leaps and bounds and apparently engine building will soon compete not only with Russia ...
    1. Tersky
      Tersky 21 January 2014 20: 16
      +1
      Quote: serviceman.
      . What are the engines on the Yak-Xnumx airplane? And their later modernization at the AN-42?
      3 × 63,74 kN Progress D-36. Produced at Motor Sich JSC (Zaporozhye). Serial production started in 1977. The Yak-42D version is equipped with three D-436M engines of the same manufacturer. The An-148 aircraft is equipped with two D-436-148 by-pass turbojet engines developed by ZMKB Progress, manufactured by Motor Sich JSC together with the Federal State Unitary Enterprise RPC Gas Turbine Building Salyut "" (One of the largest enterprises in Russia for the production of aircraft engines) AI-450-MS, also "Sichevsky", is used as an auxiliary power plant. ... O.K. Antonova additionally is working options for installing CF34-10, BR710 and SaM146 engines on an airplane. Do not run by leaps and bounds ahead of a steam locomotive ...
      1. servant.
        servant. 22 January 2014 07: 13
        +1
        D-36 is all right, but do you know the history of its creation?
  29. Altona
    Altona 21 January 2014 18: 14
    +2
    Quote: REDBLUE
    Chief designer of the Kharkov plant Morozov Alexander Alexandrovich. Born in the suburbs of Bryansk. Russia. Studied in Moscow.

    ------------------------
    It doesn’t matter, in principle ... For that matter, Lviv engineers taught Lviv buses to Galicians, though the students turned out to be so-so ...
  30. Altona
    Altona 21 January 2014 18: 32
    0
    Quote: serviceman.
    China takes leaps and bounds and apparently engine building will soon compete not only with Russia ...

    -----------------------------------
    He takes very mediocre steps, given how many research institutes he has involved in the aircraft industry in this business ... I’ll add the list again in the link below ... China lacks a scientific and technological base in engine building, namely, how to process the material .. . The composition of the material can be studied, highlighted in the spectrum, view the nanostructure, but how to get it? Question ... All the more so with complex physical properties under conditions of high temperatures and high loads ... China, as I understand it, just started about 10 years ago as a real country with science, and then, with the help of stolen and purchased scientific baggage of the USSR and USA ... In this sense, the USSR was much more effective than China ...
    Look at the list again ... Such a dirty tailor ...
    http://defence.pk/threads/china-aircraft-design-institute-and-the-aircraft-manuf




    acturers-catalog.120124 /

    But this is all about the Chinese military ...
    http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen/china/pri/data/ic_nomenchinapri/1/
    1. servant.
      servant. 21 January 2014 18: 40
      +4
      The fact of the matter is that the Chinese have started about 10 years, and quite friskily! The Soviet Union also began with stolen and purchased luggage ... The examples above. And the copies of the engines compared to the originals were mediocre, and their engines were always inferior to the Western ones, primarily due to their low resource life and increased consumption ...
  31. Altona
    Altona 21 January 2014 19: 01
    -1
    Quote: amber-50
    And we see models completely constructed from scratch that are practically not inferior in quality and characteristics to many foreign models and are head and shoulders superior to our Frets.

    ----------------------------
    If 35 VAZs were built in Tolyatti and all the auto builders came there, then our VAZ would have been better than Chinese cars long ago ... The question is, in the presence of material, intellectual, financial resources ...
    1. servant.
      servant. 21 January 2014 19: 12
      +2
      The keyword would be ....
      Renault and Nissan came to AvtoVAZ so what? Almera was and it turned out anyway Prior ....
  32. Altona
    Altona 21 January 2014 19: 05
    +2
    Quote: serviceman.
    The fact of the matter is that the Chinese have started about 10 years, and quite friskily! The Soviet Union also began with stolen and purchased luggage ... The examples above. And the copies of the engines compared to the originals were mediocre, and their engines were always inferior to the Western ones, primarily due to their low resource life and increased consumption ...

    --------------------------
    I understand everything, but I repeat, as in the case of cars, the USSR was not part of the world economy and received information sporadically, and not in a wide flow like China, did not have an industrial base developed with the help of capitalist investments ... China NOW has more opportunities to realize and catch up rather than in due time at the USSR ...
    1. servant.
      servant. 21 January 2014 19: 13
      +1
      Quote: Altona
      China NOW has more opportunities to realize and catch up than in its time with the USSR ...

      That's what I'm talking about! A little more and a competitor in engine building, he will not only Russia ...
  33. Altona
    Altona 21 January 2014 19: 23
    0
    Quote: serviceman.
    That's what I'm talking about! A little more and a competitor in engine building, he will not only Russia ...

    -----------------------------
    Well, then my grandmother said in two ... If we normally mobilize science, do not offend scientists and promote development into production and other butts, then China, in principle, is not a competitor to us ... Our land is rich with quick minds by the Nevtons and Platons, you just need to guide the youth. .. It is necessary to study ... When I studied in the 80s, the teachers told us about the universal HIGHER technical education, about comprehensive education as a necessary condition for progress ... And what did you get as a result? obsessed schoolchildren? The country with cloudy eyes is walking in the corridor of "stability" instead of a springboard to the future ...
    1. servant.
      servant. 21 January 2014 20: 08
      +1
      Quote: Altona
      The country with cloudy eyes is walking in the corridor of "stability" instead of a springboard to the future ...

      That's why there are big doubts about our competitive ability ...
  34. Altona
    Altona 21 January 2014 19: 31
    -1
    Quote: serviceman.
    Renault and Nissan came to AvtoVAZ so what? Almera was and it turned out anyway Prior ....

    -------------------------
    So what? Many of my friends really like it, they all bought a station wagon in a luxury configuration Priora or Kalina ... It’s quite a normal car, at least for the price of replacement parts ... My relatives from Perm drove me to Nissan Tean, nothing like that, there’s only a bigger salon .. .And so, what ass they drive me anyway, in principle ...
    1. servant.
      servant. 21 January 2014 20: 12
      0
      Price! Why, with higher quality cars of foreign companies produced in Russia, their price is lower than AvtoVAZ?
      Regarding spare parts, another legend is cheaper: only clandestinely made in the same China and illegally imported into Russia; spare parts at a foreign price are cheaper than AvtoVAZ ...
  35. Altona
    Altona 21 January 2014 19: 53
    +2
    It was an American Phantom in Vietnam ... He flew with hanging tanks ...


    But what the resourceful Vietnamese did to the tanks ...
  36. Wiruz
    Wiruz 21 January 2014 20: 14
    +1
    Personally, I saw Drying in the photo, not J-15. Oh, this one of China. Here recently they said something about the second Chinese aircraft carrier, and so I would not be surprised if it will be exactly like the unborn Ulyanovsk.
    1. rolik2
      rolik2 21 January 2014 20: 21
      0
      Quote: Wiruz
      it will be exactly like the unborn "Ulyanovsk".

      A strange phrase, how can something be like something that was never born?
      1. Wiruz
        Wiruz 21 January 2014 21: 54
        0
        Maybe even how. Google about Ulyanovsk.
  37. Altona
    Altona 21 January 2014 20: 30
    0
    Quote: serviceman.
    Price! Why, with higher quality cars of foreign companies produced in Russia, their price is lower than AvtoVAZ?
    Regarding spare parts, another legend is cheaper: only clandestinely made in the same China and illegally imported into Russia; spare parts at a foreign price are cheaper than AvtoVAZ ...

    -------------------------
    I personally don’t have a car, and I don’t have a friend for taste and color, as they say ... Therefore, I can’t answer you on this ... My relatives and friends go and do not complain, they are satisfied ... This is their personal business ...
  38. pvv113
    pvv113 21 January 2014 22: 11
    +6
    AUTHOR OF RIGHTS - EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO CHINESE IS COPIED EARLY OR LATE. MAIN THING THESE COPIES ARE LETTER THEM AND WELL BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL, BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT EXCEEDED IN MULTIPLE EXCELLENCE.
  39. alone
    alone 21 January 2014 22: 52
    0
    Quote: pvv113
    TO THESE COPIES, LET THEM AND BETTER ORIGINAL,

    and it still needs to be checked, they are worse or similar.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 22 January 2014 00: 07
      0
      .................................................. ...
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 22 January 2014 00: 11
        0
        ............................................
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 22 January 2014 00: 12
          +1
          ..........................................................
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 22 January 2014 00: 31
            0
            ][/ center] [[/ center] According to the Chinese press, UPAZ equipped 4 aircraft.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Alex 241
              Alex 241 22 January 2014 00: 49
              0
              ............................................
  40. Altona
    Altona 22 January 2014 11: 36
    0
    Quote: serviceman.
    Price! Why, with higher quality cars of foreign companies produced in Russia, their price is lower than AvtoVAZ?
    Regarding spare parts, another legend is cheaper: only clandestinely made in the same China and illegally imported into Russia; spare parts at a foreign price are cheaper than AvtoVAZ ...

    --------------------------
    I can only tell you one thing ... Hindus used to drive frankly bad cars, even their tough authorities and referred to patriotism - "what we have in our homeland, we drive such cars" ... The Chinese now also go about this the same way, they prohibit officials from driving a non-native one and even a luxury brand was revived somehow ... So what to drive and for what reasons is everyone's personal business ... And there is no need to engage in hidden advertising and anti-advertising ...