Military Review

Kurds are becoming a force that can influence the political situation in the Middle East

278

Simultaneously with the development of the war in Syria, the implementation of another political scenario, the creation of the “Great Kurdistan”, takes place less loudly and without serious clashes. Numerous Kurdish people, who have long sought to create their own statehood, are gradually turning their dreams into reality. Actually, this ancient people, belonging to the Indo-European language family, is worthy to create their own state.


The bulk of the Kurdish tribes live in a region called Kurdistan - in the regions of the middle and northern Zagros (mountain system) and in the upper reaches of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Currently, Kurdish territory is divided between Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria. There are large and well-organized Kurdish communities in the countries of Europe and the USA. The bulk of the Kurds - Muslims. They are Sunni Islam, and some are Shiite Islam. Alevism, Yezidism, and Christianity are also common among them. The largest Kurdish community lives in Turkey, mainly in the south-east and east of the country. Kurds make up a quarter of Turkey’s population. Kurds in Iran mainly inhabit the western islands (administrative-territorial units of Iran) - Ilam, Kermanshah, Kurdistan, Western Azerbaijan, Hamadan and Zanjan. There are Kurds in other areas of Iran. Especially a lot of them in the ostan North Khorasan.

In Iraq, the Kurds settled in the so-called. "Iraqi Kurdistan", the Kurds themselves often call it "Southern Kurdistan". This is an area in northeastern Iraq. The Kurds make up a significant percentage of the governorates (administrative-territorial unit of a number of Arab states) Erbil, Dahuk, Sulaymaniyah and Kirkuk, as well as the regions of Khanekin (Diyala governorate), Sinjar and Makhmur (Ninawa governorate). However, only part of the ethnic territory of the Iraqi Kurds is part of the autonomy. In Syria, the Kurds represent the largest ethnic minority (10-15% of the population) and mostly live compactly in the regions of the northern and northeastern part of the state on the border with Turkey (“Syrian Kurdistan”). The Kurds themselves call their area of ​​residence “Western Kurdistan” - as part of “Greater Kurdistan”.

Kurds are becoming a force that can influence the political situation in the Middle East


In Iraq, the Kurds were allies of the United States in the war against the regime of Saddam Hussein, so Washington allowed in 2005 to legitimize the wide autonomy of the “Kurdistan Region”. Baghdad could not interfere with this process. In conditions of extremely weak central power, Iraqi Kurdistan became de facto independent. Iraqi Kurdistan has become the only stable and relatively safe zone in Iraq. Kurds provide security and order in their territory. Oil reserves of Iraqi Kurdistan, which are considered among the largest in the world, provide a steady income. In addition, Iraqi Kurdistan is distinguished by an abundance of rivers and lakes, and in the conditions of water scarcity in the Middle East region, fresh water is an important natural resource. The abundance of water also helps Iraqi Kurdistan maintain the position of one of the main agricultural regions of the Middle East. Here they grow up to 75% of Iraqi wheat, half of the fruit, almost all of the tobacco, a significant portion of barley and cotton. Livestock is developed. Thus, Iraqi Kurdistan has an economic base that allows you to create an independent state.

Modern Iraq has not recovered after the American occupation. Baghdad annoyed by the economic contacts of Erbil and Ankara, but can not do anything. In order to survive, the Iraqi government did not support the aggression in Syria, established good contacts with Iran, and conducted large-scale arms purchases in the United States, the EU, Russia and other countries. So, the last major contract is the purchase of the X-NUMX T-24 Golden Eagle light fighter from South Korea. The cost of the contract was 50 billion US dollars. However, large-scale purchases of modern weapons not yet led to the stabilization of the state. Destructive trends are stronger. Thus, according to a statistical study published in the medical journal Public Library of Science, Iraq from 2003 to 2011 lost 460 to thousands of people. And the number of victims of undeclared war continues to grow. Acts of terrorism, attacks on state institutions, military and police facilities, mosques (the enmity of Shiites and Sunnis) are commonplace in Iraq. Sunni radicals are fighting both against their traditional opponents - the Shiites, and against the Kurds.

In December, 2013, Islamic radicals sharply intensified operations in several provinces of Iraq at once and are pushing the army. In the occupied territories, jihadists create camps for training militants for the war in Syria and against the Shiite government of Iraq. In Baghdad, very alarmed. Syria and Iraq are turned into "hotbeds of terrorism." The radical movement "The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" plans to create in the territory of Syria and Iraq a state ruled in accordance with radical interpretations of the Shari'a. The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria should be part of the future of the “Great Caliphate”. In 2013, this organization claimed responsibility for almost all the terrorist acts that took place in Iraq. They took 6 thousand lives, and that's not counting the greater number of wounded. In July, the militants were able to make a successful attack on two main Iraqi prisons - the famous Abu Ghraib and Taji. As a result, thousands of bandits were left free, including the “field commanders” sentenced to death, who were also captured by the Americans. In recent months, Iraqi gangs have developed unprecedented activity, conducting real combat operations against the security forces. The Iraqi authorities not only could not prevent the movement of militants across the Iraqi-Syrian border, but also began to lose control over imposing parts of the country. So, recently, militants subjected the center of Kirkuk to mortar shelling, 50 security personnel were killed. The bandits announced that they had created an “emirate” in the territory of oil-rich Kirkuk and the neighboring provinces of Salahuddin and Diyala.

The Iraqi armed forces could not restore combat effectiveness after the American occupation and were completely demoralized. At present, we see a similar picture in Afghanistan. Desertion from the army and law enforcement agencies has become widespread. Therefore, Baghdad not only cannot control Iraqi Kurdistan, but also faces the prospect of the final collapse of the state and the formation of new Sunni territorial formations in the so-called "Sunni triangle" Baghdad - Tikrit - Ramadi. In addition, if the Islamists are defeated in Syria, a significant part of them may move to Iraq, since the borders are transparent.

The success of Iraqi Kurdistan gave grounds to the Kurds from other states to declare the need to create their own autonomy, and in the long term a single state. To do this, the Kurds need to reject part of Syria, Turkey and Iran. Moreover, taking into account the war in Syria, the Kurds were able to achieve considerable autonomy there. In the fall of 2013, northeastern Syria began to position itself as a future counterpart of Iraqi Kurdistan. Salih Muslim, leader of the Party of the Democratic Union (the largest structure of the Syrian Kurds), announced the future autonomy and federalization of Syria. A special commission is already preparing a constitution for the northeastern and northwestern regions of the SAR, predominantly populated by Kurds. Three provinces are going to be included in Syrian Kurdistan: Kobani (center), Afrin (in the west) and Kamyshly (in the east). For the time being, this is not about independence, but autonomy within the Syrian Federation. November 12 published a declaration on the creation of an autonomous provisional administration in the Kurdish regions of Syria. In the Syrian war, the Kurds generally oppose jihadists, preventing them from gaining a foothold in the Kurdish areas, receiving support from Iraqi Kurdistan, the Kurdistan Workers' Party and Iraqi President D. Talabani (he is a Kurd by nationality).

At the same time, Syrian Kurds are unhappy with Erbil’s flirting with Ankara. In particular, on November 16, the head of autonomous Iraqi Kurdistan, Masoud Barzani, and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan agreed to take a stand against the provisional self-government that the Democratic Union Party proclaimed in Syrian Kurdistan. Syrian Kurds also criticize Ankara for supporting gangs in Syria.

The declaration on the creation of an autonomous provisional administration of 12 in November was preceded by a visit of the Kurdish delegation to the United States. There was a conference on the role of the Kurds in the New Middle East. It stated the need for the establishment of a Kurdish national state in Syria. The Kurds have announced support for their plans by the American political elite. Washington's motive is obvious. From the plan of "modernization" of the Middle East, no one refuses. It did not happen immediately to destroy Syria with the hands of "secular" gangs and Islamists, you can use the "Kurdish card". The Kurdish factor is a very powerful trump card with which you can continue to muddy the waters in the region. Grateful Kurds, like the Albanians in Kosovo, will allow the US to get a powerful foothold in a key area that affects several states at once. The United States will be able to control all directions - from the Persian Gulf in the south to the Caucasus in the north. The Kurdish state will be a "headache" of neighboring countries, will allow Washington to take on the role of judge.

Already, the existence of Iraqi Kurdistan and the activation of Syrian Kurds has become a serious problem for Ankara. The Kurdish issue in Turkey’s foreign and domestic policy has gained particular importance in recent years - it is a matter of maintaining the unity of the state. Ankara was forced to urgently change its policy towards Iraqi Kurdistan and the Kurdish Workers Party in the most radical way. From military operations against units of the Kurdish Workers Party and regular attacks on militant bases in Iraq, Ankara moved on to negotiations and cooperation. So, in 2012 - early 2013, the Turks managed to agree with the leader of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, Abdullah Ocalan, on a plan for a phased settlement of the Kurdish problem in Turkey. In the spring of 2013, Ocalan handed over historical a message in which he substantiated the need for a transition from armed struggle to political struggle.

In mid-November, the head of Iraqi Kurds, Masoud Barzani, visited Turkey for the first time in 20 years. He held talks with the head of the Turkish government Erdogan. They were held in the city of Diyarbakir, which is considered to be the unofficial capital of "Turkish Kurdistan". Ankara has set its sights on resolving a lengthy conflict with Turkish Kurds, since under current conditions it threatens the integrity of the state. Erbil, counting on the political and economic support of Ankara, supports the Turkish government in this matter. In addition, Barzani considers Syrian Kurds to be competitors for their leading role in the process of uniting the Kurdish people. And the Turks are afraid of the revitalization of the Kurdish movement on their territory - in the event that the Syrian Kurds can achieve great success in the establishment of the "Syrian Kurdistan". Therefore, Ankara and Erbil have sung in this issue, at the same time increasing cooperation in the field of energy and oil production, construction of oil pipelines. Iraqi Kurdistan and Turkey reached a preliminary agreement on the construction of a pipeline from Kirkuk.

The criticism of the Kurds and against Iran has intensified. It is clear that in Tehran, they monitor the processes in the Kurdish community and are not going to let the destructive processes take their course. After the overthrow of the shah regime, the Kurds sought to grant them national autonomy within the framework of the Islamic Republic of Iran. However, this idea did not fit into the principles of a theocratic state. The Iranian leadership adheres to the concept of "a multi-ethnic state as a whole." In addition, Tehran takes into account the danger from the United States, Israel and Saudi Arabia, who can use the Kurds as their "fifth column". Therefore, the Iranian authorities are pursuing a policy of strengthening the country's integration. To this end, the government is trying to force the development of the economy of the Kurdish regions. The basis of their economy to date is agriculture. Iranian Kurdistan is the breadbasket of Iran - rich crops of grain, rice, vegetables and fruits are gathered here. The authorities are trying to develop the industry of the Kurdish-populated areas. At the same time, the problem of the development of the social infrastructure of the region is being solved. In the region there is a shortage of higher education institutions, secondary specialized educational institutions, schools, medical institutions, places for leisure and entertainment of the population. High unemployment, especially among young people, and housing problems exacerbate the situation.

Tehran, like Ankara, began rapprochement with Erbil. Moreover, Iran began to establish contacts immediately after the adoption of a new constitution in Iraq in 2005 and the determination of the autonomous status of the Kurdistan Region. The Islamic Republic has established fairly close political and economic relations with Iraqi Kurdistan. It also helped the economic development of bordering Iranian areas populated mainly by Kurds. More than half of all trade operations with Iraq are in Iraqi Kurdistan. Several hundred Iranian companies operate in Kurdistan. Their number is constantly growing. In late October, the President of the Kurdistan Region of Iraq, Masoud Barzani, visited 2011. He called Iran a "friendly country." Thanks to the fruitful cooperation between Tehran and Erbil, the level of tension in the Kurdish-populated regions of Iran is relatively low. Iraqi Kurdistan leaders M. Barzani and J. Talabani hold regular meetings with representatives of the political movements of Iranian Kurds.

Thus, Turkey and Iran have so far managed to fend off the threat from the Kurdish movement. The Kurds achieved the greatest success in Iraq and Syria, the states that have undergone external aggression.

It is believed that the United States and Israel are the main forces behind the Kurdish project. Israelis, like Americans, played a big role in the emergence of Iraqi Kurdistan. Israel needs an independent Kurdish state in order to deliver a serious blow to the Arab world and Iran, that is, to weaken potential opponents. It is obvious that the Kurdish state will cause a strong rejection from Iran, Turkey, Iraq and Syria, that is, Israel will get an ally in such a volatile region. Natural resources of Kurdistan, hydrocarbons, water and bread, as well as access to the sea through Syria - this is the essence of the geopolitical confrontation. Gradually, the Kurds are turning into a force that can influence the political situation throughout the Middle East. They are trying to use the historical moment and realize the century dream of their state.
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  1. Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 14 December 2013 07: 55
    15
    Kurds ?: belay
    here in Kiev you can’t figure it out ... SBU is complementary to the United States, oppas are all denyuzhka from giants;

    give me a T-72 winked , Oh please....
    1. Mitek
      Mitek 14 December 2013 11: 19
      +4
      Right! On these Kurds I put such a juh that scary to think))) Here in
      Some garbage is ripening in Russia, and they are chasing after some Kurds, who in life will never become any power. Kurds are not power. Kurds are an occasion. An occasion to weaken Ankara in one way or another. Truly real power will act through the Kurds. Therefore, they are anyone, but not power.
      1. Civil
        Civil 14 December 2013 11: 30
        +4
        The USSR greatly helped the Kurds, there were training bases in Bulgaria, in the light of Turkish policy, to create an allied Kurdistan for us is the task!

        PS. Unlike the Turks, the Kurds are very warm towards Russians and Russia!
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 14 December 2013 12: 48
          +2
          Quote: Civil
          Unlike the Turks, the Kurds are very warm towards Russians and Russia!

          give examples, facts?
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 14 December 2013 13: 18
            -3
            Quote: Yarbay
            give examples, facts?

            Greetings bro !!!!!! how we all miss you!))) You are our heavy artillery fellow good
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 13: 21
              0
              Quote: smersh70
              Greetings bro !!!!!! how we all miss you!))

              hi brother))) I constantly read local topics and your comments)))
          2. Rusich51
            Rusich51 14 December 2013 13: 30
            +2
            Quote: Yarbay
            Quote: Civil
            Unlike the Turks, the Kurds are very warm towards Russians and Russia!

            give examples, facts?

            Something rarely began to appear on the site, a lot of work in the region? Look what crap is brewed by amers and Saudis.
          3. Shur
            Shur 14 December 2013 22: 30
            -6
            Facts? Turkey is a friendly country of Russia ... tourists, fruits, builders .. yes yes ..
            1. malikov
              malikov 16 December 2013 00: 36
              -1
              well, well ... you don’t need enemies with such friends
          4. Civil
            Civil 14 December 2013 23: 52
            +6
            Dear Azerbaijanis are also fans of Russia ?!)))) Do not tell me the slippers, we all know what they say in the back to the Russians in Turkey. Asian lies and smiles should not be misleading. And the Kurds remember our help and believe. It would be very nice to bleed Tehran with Baku, it would be sooo much fun.
            1. Shur
              Shur 15 December 2013 00: 10
              +1
              Yes, no one should be poisoned .. It’s hot there without persecution. The Turks, of course, are not particularly friendly to the Russians, but completely and completely unfriendly, but at least they are sane. In general, one should not go into the dark affairs of Western partners until this threatens Russia's interests.
            2. alone
              alone 15 December 2013 00: 15
              -1
              It will be fun for us or Tehran, where 30 million Azerbaijanis live, who are just waiting for the moment to act)) our state relations are just good. I think that you are upset, the fun did not work out
            3. Sandov
              Sandov 15 December 2013 11: 06
              +3
              Quote: Civil
              Dear Azerbaijanis are also fans of Russia ?!)))) Do not tell me the slippers, we all know what they say in the back to the Russians in Turkey. Asian lies and smiles should not be misleading. And the Kurds remember our help and believe. It would be very nice to bleed Tehran with Baku, it would be sooo much fun.

              Actually, it would be nice for us to behave ourselves in a foreign country. Some snatched dough behave rudely. This is unpleasant to me as a Russian person.
            4. duke
              duke 15 December 2013 11: 26
              +3
              it seems the time has come for the amers to throw in the Kurdish card ... Uncle Sam overstrained himself a little, so we need to leave a little confusion after ourselves, at the same time create a new ally. Is it really interesting to see how this is done technically, through the UN or in fact? Most likely, the creation of Kurdistan will begin with a weakened Iraq and Syria, which can no longer hold the terror. integrity. But the Turks and Persians will be cut to the last, tk. the Turks will then lose a significant part of the territory. At the same time, it will be curious to see what they will do with Turland, because they are a NATO member. The Persians will not give the Kurds autonomy, because Iranian Azerbaijanis will immediately demand it, since plans have already been announced to create a "great" Azerbaijan, naturally at the expense of Iran. It looks like the Americans decided to occupy the region with showdowns for fifty years ...
          5. Sandov
            Sandov 15 December 2013 11: 01
            +1
            In addition, Tehran takes into account the danger from the United States, Israel and Saudi Arabia, which can use the Kurds as their “fifth column”.

            Like it or not, the Amer project has already started working. A year, another will be needed to implement it. For better or worse it is still unknown, wait and see.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Sergey_K
          Sergey_K 14 December 2013 16: 52
          +7
          In this region, Russia has no allies. Maybe you should bet on the Kurds and help them build their own state? Thus make reliable friends.
          But here I am afraid of the word east and reliable are antonyms ...
          1. Jan Radium
            Jan Radium 14 December 2013 17: 29
            0
            It would be reasonable
          2. Alex Danilov
            Alex Danilov 16 December 2013 03: 56
            +1
            What the fuck are Kurds? What is Russia's involvement in the war? You b ... bleached overeat? Russia needs to arm itself in full swing and rebuild the USSR 2: 0. Iran is an ally. What kind of asshole is Kurdistan? Do you want to be drawn into the war? Do you have any brains at all?
        4. Yarbay
          Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 47
          0
          Quote: Civil
          Unlike the Turks, the Kurds are very warm towards Russians and Russia!

          Letter from Kazim Karabekir103 Khalil Pasha104.
          "The insidious role of the Dashnaks and their help to the British is extremely slowing down our common cause."
          Comrade Khalil Pasha
          Dear and beloved comrade,
          The news of your arrival in Baku infinitely pleased us.
          On our situation and the details of the case by comrade Naim Javid
          you have already been informed of everything you need; therefore, we reaffirm that
          the situation of our unfortunate homeland worsens every day, and
          At this moment, it is completely critical: every village spends
          and expends his last cartridges, his last state and
          last energy; the entire present state of the entire population is already used
          spent on protecting the honor of the homeland. Imperialistic aspirations devil
          honest Englishmen forced the Greeks to climb us and occupy Brues; and
          they are not they striving to occupy our dear Angora. Understand that heart
          reign, and everyone is close to losing heart. We are extremely disappointed that
          deprived of the opportunity to actively help our western front, so
          how unscrupulous e dash naki in payment for our ext.
          today, having occupied our borders, I do not give t to our allies to help us and
          they don’t even want to talk to us. I must emphasize that love and
          the brotherly feeling for our red Russian allies, both among the red Asker and among the population, is increasing every day; this circumstance convinces me that our union and brotherhood with the Russians will
          go on forever, and therefore convince our allies, Soviet
          government, that the Russian-Turkish union will be eternal. At this moment, when our fighting in the west with the British needs the expected from the east, our red ally, help in sending finances and weapons, the insidious role of dash nak and their help
          the British are extremely hindered by our common cause, and I am surprised that by
          why such a crime of dash nak remains without punishment and why before
          still they are not removed from the arena as a harmful obstacle. It’s clear
          that the Dashnaks’s obstruction to our message and their closure of the road
          tantamount to their desire to see red Anatolia in the hands of the British and
          all the Red Turks destroyed, because this is real help to the British by the Dashnaks.
          Already our red army was ready to step against the insidious dashaks, how the letters came from you, and that's because of these letters
          We’ve been inactive for two months awaiting orders. Which on
          the consequences occurred for the motherland from two months of inaction already
          clear. Let the Russian Soviet Authority be convinced of our sincerely
          st, let him see in us the same sincere and persecuting the same
          the brothers’s ideas, as they themselves, will take measures to open the eastern
          railway, and to restore calm in the east give us
          the opportunity to beat the British imperialists in the west; and therefore on
          I believe that, having regard to the urgency of the matter,
          us, the Azerbaijani Red Army, or VM naturally with the Russians are red
          in parts, immediately you step against the dashas in order to open
          tiya railway. It is clear that the Dashnaks use our inaction in anticipation of special awards from England. What material
          damages are caused to us by such a role of the dashaks, which I have already described; and the moral damage caused by this is that this state of affairs is too encouraging to the counter-revolutionaries: the fact is that in the presence of English
          Secrets of the agitators; late assistance from the east sets the stage
          to provoke the English agents and their agitation, takes root, which will then be difficult to fight against.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 53
            +1
            To this we must add that most of the askers of my army, standing against the dashas, ​​came from western vilayets, and now
            Imagine the difficulty of holding these askers when they receive news of an attack from their homeland, i.e. western x vilayets.
            So, comrade, I explained to you the situation of the people who find themselves in
            after the world war and having lost it
            military supplies on the face, as well as the one who sacrificed everything
            for all this time of revolution. Believe that you too, learning about our position
            Nii, you will not regret the work to accelerate the provision of assistance to us.
            I repeat once again that we do not have any aggressive aspirations
            No, our attitude towards Russian brothers is completely sincere, therefore convince our Russian brothers that they are in the interests of our
            of a common cause, they would have believed us and would have allowed us to open the railway for unhindered communication with one blow on our dash
            help and you against the British.

            I ask you to inform us of the state of affairs in general. For intercourse with on
            by all the stations in Bayazet and Orserum
            station with a wireless telegraph apparatus in Gerus. Also need
            It is necessary to establish a telegraph and telephone communication between Gerus
            and Nakhichevan.
            With sincere and perfect respect, I bow and salute
            Commander of the Eastern Front Kyazim Karabekir.
            23 / Ѵ ІІІ - 20 years.
            (RGASPI. F. 495. Op. 181. D.135. L .1, 1 vol.)
        5. ayyildiz
          ayyildiz 14 December 2013 23: 25
          +3
          Quote: Civil
          PS. Unlike the Turks, the Kurds are very warm towards Russians and Russia!

          But then take them to yourself!
      2. Rusich51
        Rusich51 14 December 2013 13: 27
        +2
        Quote: Mitek
        Right! On these Kurds I put such a juh that scary to think))) Here in
        Some garbage is ripening in Russia, and they are chasing after some Kurds, who in life will never become any power. Kurds are not power. Kurds are an occasion. An occasion to weaken Ankara in one way or another. Truly real power will act through the Kurds. Therefore, they are anyone, but not power.

        Do not say gop ahead of time. Amer’s project may still work.
    2. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 14 December 2013 11: 26
      +6
      Quote: Karlsonn

      ... give me the T-72 winked , Oh please....


      Where to send? fellow
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 14 December 2013 11: 49
        +2
        winked I repent, I do not know how to tank crying BMP I drive, although not fuel oil.
        1. vladimirZ
          vladimirZ 14 December 2013 13: 13
          +7
          Karlsonn (5)
          I repent, I do not know how I drive on BMP tanks, although not fuel oil


          Why did you ask? Already sent, meet. laughing
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 14 December 2013 13: 20
        +4
        Quote: And Us Rat
        Where to send?

        there are so many articles about the Maidan that he thought that here they are discussing Ukraine or the Maidan laughing send it, let it play at your leisure wassat
      3. Alex Danilov
        Alex Danilov 16 December 2013 04: 56
        0
        Governor, damn it, governor!
    3. alone
      alone 14 December 2013 12: 40
      +6
      Ask for armature, armature !!
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 14 December 2013 12: 53
        +6
        They will not receive the reinforcement soon, while they are buying the T-72B. For some reason I remembered "Mimino" - "Dali, 26B gave"
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. pensioner
      pensioner 14 December 2013 13: 12
      +1
      Quote: Karlsonn
      give me a T-72

      No need to get carried away by half measuresstop! Only MLRS! Good afternoon, Carlson!
    5. novobranets
      novobranets 14 December 2013 13: 59
      +5
      танк
      For yourself the shore. So be it, take it.
    6. builder
      builder 14 December 2013 14: 30
      0
      Give you a T72 - you will break so much firewood, and not only firewood ...
    7. The comment was deleted.
    8. Megatron
      Megatron 14 December 2013 19: 30
      +1
      Many Kurds live in Russia; they relate well to Russia and to Syria.
  2. Igor39
    Igor39 14 December 2013 08: 00
    11
    The war for separating the Kurds from Turkey is a good option, greatly weakening Ankara.
    1. S-200
      S-200 14 December 2013 10: 50
      +3
      Quote: Igor39
      The war for separating the Kurds from Turkey is a good option, greatly weakening Ankara.

      better - a smoldering territorial hotbed of tension using the technology of "controlled chaos" ...
      (we remember who Chechen fighters are nurturing)
      It is necessary to adopt (creatively rethink) advanced technologies in sworn friends ! bully
      PS I got a pun ...
      The Kurd will strike from the bazooka on Nabucca immediately the Turks will rise (fall) ...
      1. alone
        alone 14 December 2013 13: 04
        +6
        Nabucco has long been bent, it would not hurt you to ask about this. Moreover, Azerbaijan and Russia bent it together. Your pun is certainly funny, but the Kurds have nothing to do with it)))
        1. Genera
          Genera 16 December 2013 05: 49
          -1
          Russia pressed, and you were blown away. And in a truly oriental manner, like it was our initiative. Note "besides, Azerbaijan and Russia have bent it." It's funny to me, but you should be ashamed.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 16 December 2013 23: 47
            -1
            Quote: Genera
            Russia pressed, and you were blown away. And in a truly oriental manner, like this was our initiative.
            where does Russia ??
            Azerbaijan bent the project on its own, as Europeans wanted the whole project to pay for Azerbaijan from their income !!
            Instead, we, together with BP and Turkey, began the construction of an alternative TANAP project !!
            That is, the pipeline will be built according to any, just the Europeans will not get profit from it))) Russia and ??
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 14 December 2013 13: 22
      -2
      Quote: Igor39
      a good option, greatly weakening Ankara.

      and YOU will be hot, or cold from this ....... or are you at war with Turkey .. it is intended to rest, all the same, you are going there ..... or YOU have a free ticket to Siberia .. . bully .
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 14 December 2013 17: 17
        +2
        Well, I didn’t have enough to go to Turkey to feed the Turks. I won’t have any turmoil with the Kurds in Turkey, I would like them to fight on their territory, supply the Kurds with weapons through Armenia, but still do not forget their efforts.
      2. Sandov
        Sandov 15 December 2013 11: 39
        +2
        Quote: smersh70
        and YOU will be hot, or cold from this ....... or are you at war with Turkey .. it is intended to rest, all the same, you are going there ..... or YOU have a free ticket to Siberia .. ..

        Turkey shits on BV is not sickly, sympathy just will not wait.
  3. makarov
    makarov 14 December 2013 08: 23
    +8
    Turkey bribed and took control of part of the Kurdish movement, which caused indignation and indignation among the rest of the Kurds. in theory, now the Kurdish movement has its own "srach", and it is difficult to predict how it will end, since there are quite a few people willing to participate in it
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 14 December 2013 12: 57
      -7
      Quote: makarov
      Turkey bribed and took control of part of the Kurdish movement, which caused indignation and indignation among the rest of the Kurds. in theory, now the Kurdish movement has its own "srach", and it is difficult to predict how it will end, since there are quite a few people willing to participate in it

      All right!
      The author is an old Turkophobe and presents his wish for the possible !! Samsonov is an ordinary chauvinist who does not possess neither knowledge nor the ability to analyze!
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 14 December 2013 13: 03
        -9
        And what is better than other Russian "analysts"? I have not seen a single modern analyst in Russia who adequately assesses the situation in the world and in the region in particular. The old principle of the times of Tsar Peas is working - we are all enemies, we will soak everyone ... The principle of a sledgehammer is no diplomacy. The result of such a policy is visible in the number of friends Russia ..
        1. Clegg
          Clegg 14 December 2013 13: 04
          +9
          Quote: xetai9977
          I have not seen a single modern analyst in Russia adequately assessing the situation in the world and in the region in particular.

          Satanovskiy
          1. xetai9977
            xetai9977 14 December 2013 13: 06
            +1
            Yes, he also has seven Fridays in the week ...
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 14 December 2013 15: 26
          +3
          And we don't need friends: from Geyevropa, from the fanatical Wahhabi Arabian Peninsula, the Central Asian rogue and adaptable, cunning Chinese and "God-chosen" Americans, eternal debtors from Africa, etc.
          Russia has two allies, the Army and the Navy!
          1. xetai9977
            xetai9977 14 December 2013 16: 46
            -1
            So Russia has not changed since the time of Alexander the 3rd, and advanced countries have gone far ahead.
            1. Rusich51
              Rusich51 14 December 2013 18: 15
              +3
              Quote: xetai9977
              So Russia has not changed since the time of Alexander the 3rd, and advanced countries have gone far ahead.

              Are advanced countries a geyropa?
              I would not bet on her. India and China are more suitable for imitation.
              1. xetai9977
                xetai9977 14 December 2013 18: 34
                +1
                What is meant by the term geytropa? If it’s Europe, then I’ve always thought that sinful thought, science and technology, Mozart and Bach, Leonardo da Vinci and Rembrandt, Planck, Einstein, Bohr, thousands and thousands of geniuses have something to do with Europe. But no, it turns out. Europe is, according to the majority on the site, a haven of blue people. And Russia has happily circumvented this inheritance. Borika Moiseev and Seryozha Zverev are natural Geitropians. It's a shame to lie like that !!!
                1. Onotollah
                  Onotollah 14 December 2013 20: 28
                  +5
                  Quote: xetai9977
                  If Europe, then I was a sinner always assumed that advanced thought, science and technology, Mozart and Bach, Leonardo da Vinci and Rembrandt, Planck, Einstein, Bohr, thousands and thousands of geniuses have something to do with Europe.

                  The list is far from complete without Copernicus, Bruno and Galileo. And here Apuleius wrote notable books at the turn of the epochs, more than two thousand years ago.
                  The conversation seemed to be about how advanced countries went forward. How many tens and hundreds of years have passed since the people you mentioned left? So what are we looking back at?

                  Quote: xetai9977
                  .An no, it turns out. Europe is, according to the majority on the site, a haven of blue.

                  No, no, don’t worry, it’s completely normal that blue marriages are registered in Europe and equalized with normal families.
                  In Spain, up to 30% of youth have declared their homo-orientation.
                  But in fact, again, don’t worry, this is normal for Europe.
                  The fact that in France, despite the massive protests of full-fledged citizens, the approved "same-sex project" again does not mean anything?
                  Do not be ashamed to distort so?
                2. RUSS
                  RUSS 15 December 2013 09: 39
                  +3
                  A historical excursion is not appropriate, we are talking about progressive countries, and not about scientists, composers, etc.
                3. Sandov
                  Sandov 15 December 2013 11: 47
                  +1
                  Quote: xetai9977
                  .An no, it turns out. Europe is, according to the majority on the site, a haven of blue.

                  Regrettably this is so. Plank, Bohr, Dirac, Heisenberg are great physicists, I bow. But this is in the past. On occasion, read Spengler - Sunset Europe.
              2. alone
                alone 14 December 2013 18: 36
                +3
                Quote: Rusich51
                I would not bet on her. India and China are more suitable for imitation.


                Poverty India with hundreds of millions of Holodians is an example to follow)) where also the bulk of the population is poor, and all the resources are in the hands of a handful of oligarchs !!
                1. Sandov
                  Sandov 15 December 2013 11: 50
                  +1
                  Quote: lonely
                  Poverty India with hundreds of millions of Holodians is an example to follow)) where also the bulk of the population is poor, and all the resources are in the hands of a handful of oligarchs !!

                  The culture of India is much higher than God's chosen Europe.
              3. Clegg
                Clegg 15 December 2013 11: 09
                0
                Quote: Rusich51
                India and China are more suitable for imitation.

                Seriously? Two poor countries
            2. Onotollah
              Onotollah 14 December 2013 19: 41
              +3
              Quote: xetai9977
              .And advanced countries have gone far ahead

              And give an example so as not to be unfounded?
              1. xetai9977
                xetai9977 14 December 2013 22: 11
                -1
                Why unfounded? Look at the GDP indicators of the USA, England, France, Germany, Japan, etc. per capita. And where is Russia?
                1. Onotollah
                  Onotollah 15 December 2013 08: 34
                  +4
                  I agree, but not so simple.
                  And does the USA have external debt? They are practically ruined.
                  And if you compare, for example, the hero city of Volgograd and the bankrupt city of Daytroit, then I prefer the first one more.
                  1. xetai9977
                    xetai9977 15 December 2013 11: 54
                    -1
                    I did not expect that the FIRST ECONOMY of the WORLD was ruined, and the Americans were starving ...
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 16 December 2013 23: 49
                    -1
                    Quote: Onotolle
                    And if you compare, for example, the hero city of Volgograd and the bankrupt city of Daytroit, then I prefer the first one more.

                    And how many cities are rooted in Russia ???
                2. Sandov
                  Sandov 15 December 2013 11: 51
                  +1
                  Khetai - Japan is the East. This is an example to everyone.
        3. Vladimir.z.
          Vladimir.z. 14 December 2013 15: 38
          +4
          Quote: xetai9977
          I have not seen a single modern analyst in Russia adequately assessing the situation in the world and in the region in particular ... The result of such a policy is visible by the number of friends of Russia ..


          Everyone sees only what he wants to see ...
          And as regards friends and allies at the state level, no one said better than Alexander lll: "Russia has only two allies: the army and the navy." ...
          And the neighbors are not always friends .... some want to chop off a few meters from your plot, while others steal something .....
          1. xetai9977
            xetai9977 14 December 2013 16: 47
            -1
            This is what your "allies" like Armenia are doing.
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 14 December 2013 18: 33
              +5
              And I think when do you remember Armenia ...
              And again, the name of the country with a small letter, well, to such an extent it is not necessary not to respect the neighbor.
              1. xetai9977
                xetai9977 14 December 2013 18: 40
                -2
                We must respect the aggressor, with your help chopping off 20% of our territory, and on whose hands the blood of tens of thousands of innocent victims? The logic is good ...
                1. Alex Danilov
                  Alex Danilov 16 December 2013 05: 01
                  +2
                  You must disrespect those who have ruined us and quarreled now instead of unite, sit and dog, and those who have ruined us, clap their hands and quarrel further, and you yourself are not going to fall apart.
              2. Yeraz
                Yeraz 14 December 2013 21: 36
                -2
                Quote: RUSS
                And I think when do you remember Armenia ...
                And again, the name of the country with a small letter, well, to such an extent it is not necessary not to respect the neighbor.

                HahaHahaha))) laughed for a long time))) laughed)))
                Really for all the time the Azerbaijanis were present at this, we did not understand that it was not that we were ready to cut them into small pieces with a small letter and at the same time cheerfully sing along ara wai wai, wats wai)))
                And they talked about the reasons for this a million and a billion times.
                BUT, many here have the unique ability to hear only themselves, facts and evidence not to accept, and in many situations without saying anything, just click on the left mouse button))))
                1. RUSS
                  RUSS 15 December 2013 15: 29
                  +3
                  In Russian, the names of countries are capitalized, it is clear that you do not consider Armenia as a country, but then respect the Russian language and those who write and speak it, do not be illiterate.
        4. user
          user 15 December 2013 05: 42
          +1
          Well, does America have many friends?
        5. Sandov
          Sandov 15 December 2013 11: 44
          +2
          Hetai. Lavrov seems to have an adequate and intelligible policy in BV. Soaking the enemies who came to us with a sword is a duty.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Sandov
        Sandov 15 December 2013 11: 41
        +1
        Quote: Yarbay
        All right!
        The author is an old Turkophobe and presents his wish for the possible !! Samsonov is an ordinary chauvinist who does not possess neither knowledge nor the ability to analyze!

        Alibek always considered you a worthy opponent. Neither Turkophobia nor Russophobia (Hasnarat) is necessary.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 16 December 2013 23: 56
          0
          Quote: Sandov
          Alibek always considered you a worthy opponent.

          And you read Samsonov's Articles, about Turkey, about Azerbaijan! Especially historical)))))))))))))
          some speculation and distortion !!
          and outright hatred!
          I respect the Russians!
          I have Russian friends that I am proud of!
  4. Alex_Popovson
    Alex_Popovson 14 December 2013 08: 33
    10
    give me a T-72

    Make me an Emperor! I will then distribute to everyone on the T-90. And in addition to every shot, with oils.

    In general, as a person who is interested in our smaller brothers, I note that the Kurds are a very adequate people, although they are somewhat reminiscent of Israelis in fanaticism. Taksho option of the emergence of Kurdistan is quite possible.
    BUT. As always, there is a "but". The Turks, albeit half armed with Chinese weapons (yes, to the detriment of NATO), are very numerous, I don’t remember, either the 6th or the 7th in number, will perceive the separation of the Kurds as a rebellion and revolt. And they have a short conversation with the rioters and separatists, because the Kurds are very fond of exploding-nabigat-killing the Turts. So the Kurds will get a hat from the Turks without any problems.
    Secondly. NATO is our favorite, Turkey is a member of NATO, with all that it implies. Refrain from further explanation
    The third nuance. The Kurds are mostly Sunnis, but unlike the rest of the Sunnis, they adhere to the Shafiite madhhab. Let me remind you that the rest of the world adheres to the Hanafi madhhab. Saudi Arabia is a Hanbalite madhhab, which oh how it does not like Shafiites or other Malikites. What do we have in Syria now? This is the third factor holding Kurdistan from education.
    And you can also remember that huge crowds of Kurds, in addition to Turkey, Iraq and Syria, are also present in Azerbaijan and Iran. And the formation of Kurdistan - will cause a very "positive"
    reaction of all listed countries.

    So there’s a 50/50 chance - will it form or not
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 14 December 2013 09: 50
      0
      Quote: Alex_Popovson
      Make me an Emperor! I will then distribute to everyone on the T-90. And in addition to every shot, with oils.


      for the T-72 in the modification - forgive - that's it!

      Quote: Alex_Popovson
      In general, as a person interested in our smaller brothers, I note that the Kurds are a very adequate people, although they are somewhat reminiscent of Israelis in fanaticism.


      and I, like - Russian! me that the Kurds, that the Jews that the Highlanders-in parallel, am

      You really got me - small nationalities! angry How long ???
      I - Russian Sunnis, Buddhists, Catholics --- on the drum!
      Can't live on my land? Ok - we’ll drip wink .
      And for those especially frisky and stubborn, we’ll go into the house and mix it with clay.
      I'm fucking ... and look carefully.

      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Alex_Popovson
        Alex_Popovson 14 December 2013 15: 24
        -3
        Do you know that Russian is a Ugro-Mongolian Cossack?
        1. Rusich51
          Rusich51 14 December 2013 16: 46
          +3
          Quote: Alex_Popovson
          Do you know that Russian is a Ugro-Mongolian Cossack?

          In those days, the Russians were called the Mongols. Great Tartaria.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 14 December 2013 18: 35
          +1
          Alex_Popovson
          Mongol-Cossack Cossack? What a joke?
          1. Sandov
            Sandov 15 December 2013 11: 59
            +1
            Quote: RUSS
            Alex_Popovson
            Mongol-Cossack Cossack? What a joke?

            Great Tartaria, translated by Mongolotataria.
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 14 December 2013 13: 24
      +3
      Quote: Alex_Popovson
      Most Kurds are Sunnis, but unlike the rest of the Sunnis, they adhere to the Shafi'i madhhab

      You forgot about the Yezidi Kurds .... and where to put them wassat
      1. Alex_Popovson
        Alex_Popovson 14 December 2013 15: 20
        0
        But do you think they will stand out against the general background than now?
    3. Vova Vartanov
      Vova Vartanov 14 December 2013 14: 46
      +2
      I think you're right - the odds are 50 to 50, but this project is very persistently moving forward.
  5. Tatarus
    Tatarus 14 December 2013 08: 33
    +5
    It follows from the article that in the event of independence, Kurdistan will receive energy, food and drinking ( laughing ) safety. That is, it will become completely self-sufficient. Question: And why does the USA need such an education? Why such an island of stability? They will also fall apart later. This becomes clearer after reading the words "The United States and Israel are the main forces behind the Kurdish project."
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 14 December 2013 09: 43
      +2
      Quote: Tatarus
      And why does the USA need such an education? Why such an island of stability? They will also fall apart later. This becomes clearer after reading the words "The United States and Israel are the main forces behind the Kurdish project."

      This will be the force that will allow the United States to restrain the ambitions of neighboring countries and mainly Turkey, Iran.
      With any problems, they will calmly support the liberation movement within the country, under the great slogan of self-determination of the nation and the formation of a new state. For this reason, many monarchies of the East look at the USA with their mouths open.
    2. Clegg
      Clegg 14 December 2013 10: 24
      +9
      Quote: Tatarus
      US and Israel are the main forces behind the Kurdish project

      Kurds are the fourth largest people in the BV; this is a great chance for the Jews to make their scapegoat. After all, the future Kurdistan will affect the territories of Turks, Pres and Arabs. All of them will switch from Jews to Kurds. Great move will be
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 14 December 2013 10: 33
        +2
        Quote: Clegg
        Kurds are the fourth largest people in the BV; this is a great chance for the Jews to make their scapegoat.


        it remains to remember the boobs and blue.
        1. Clegg
          Clegg 14 December 2013 10: 35
          +3
          Quote: Karlsonn
          it remains to remember the boobs and blue.

          ?
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 14 December 2013 11: 51
            -1
            Quote: Clegg
            ?


            a thread without boobs, Jews and blue-will not take off.
            1. Alex_Popovson
              Alex_Popovson 14 December 2013 15: 22
              0
              On Tirech,. And don't come back.
    3. Rusich51
      Rusich51 14 December 2013 13: 38
      +2
      This project has long been implemented by amers. All war on BV for this and started.
  6. ZU-23
    ZU-23 14 December 2013 08: 45
    +1
    Well, judging by the article, the Kurds are everywhere under control, no one offends them anywhere, in Iranian Kurdistan they generally get high, you just need to control the slightest manifestations of extremism, keep the top under control so that no one is curled up and does not fall under the Amero-Israeli mix, thereby to prevent Israel from approaching the United States on this basis, because they began to ramp so well between themselves laughing
  7. kelevra
    kelevra 14 December 2013 09: 38
    +1
    With European politics, the Kurds will definitely be given autonomy!
  8. alone
    alone 14 December 2013 09: 53
    +5
    there may be autonomy, but no one needs a "Great Kurdistan" in the region.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 14 December 2013 10: 30
        +7
        Carlson, you can think of any people whatever you want, but only to yourself. And publicly calling to "kill" anyone is an offense that falls under the criminal code.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. xetai9977
            xetai9977 14 December 2013 12: 32
            +5
            the lexicon shows that you are either under a degree or have smoked the products of Afghan peasants. Swearing will not prove your case
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 13: 02
              +3
              he is a troll)))
              1. xetai9977
                xetai9977 14 December 2013 13: 05
                +4
                Let them troll in Tolkien’s works. The military site is not for trolls, goblins, elves and gnomes.
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 14 December 2013 13: 29
                  +4
                  Quote: xetai9977
                  Let them troll in Tolkien’s works. The military site is not for trolls, goblins, elves and gnomes.

                  Dear Rauf to whom you say this))))))
                  I support your anger))
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. xetai9977
                    xetai9977 14 December 2013 13: 38
                    +2
                    Dear Yarbai, I’m talking about those users who fool around because they have nothing to oppose to the facts and the REAL situation
              2. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 12: 51
            +2
            Quote: Karlsonn
            but I have an account with a number of peoples who traded my ancestors like cattle.

            With such accounts, you would rather repeat the path of your ancestors who were traded, which I would not want for you !!
            1. alone
              alone 14 December 2013 12: 58
              +3
              SALAM ALIBEK !! You haven’t been seen for a long time, my friend)))
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 14 December 2013 13: 13
                -3
                Quote: lonely
                SALAM ALIBEK !! You haven’t been seen for a long time, my friend)))

                Vaaleikum salaam !!

                I retired my brother))))))))
                here it’s completely uninteresting !!
                The same thing a hundred times to write to someone may be fun, but not to me!
                Here, 60 percent of the frenzied Russian Nazi chauvinists! 30 percent of trolls and 10 percent of smart and normal interlocutors !! Unfortunately, representatives of the last 10 percent, very busy people and rarely come here !!))
                1. alone
                  alone 14 December 2013 13: 23
                  +1
                  Well brother, you are right in many ways, moreover, this 10 percent is becoming less and less))
                  1. Rusich51
                    Rusich51 14 December 2013 14: 03
                    +3
                    Quote: lonely
                    Well brother, you are right in many ways, moreover, this 10 percent is becoming less and less))


                    Yes, no the number does not change, the number of visitors increases.
                2. smersh70
                  smersh70 14 December 2013 13: 30
                  +2
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Here, 60 percent of the frenzied Russian Nazi chauvinists! 30 percent of trolls and 10 percent of smart and normal interlocutors !! Unfortunately, representatives of the last 10 percent, very busy people and rarely come here !!))

                  what words !! Respect !!! yesterday and the day before Smile said, do not go into the thread about emigrants ... could not stand it and climbed)))))))) wrote historical facts .... gave examples ... all the Nazis did not care )))) examples and arguments are not given .... only worked as a mouse on the left side wassat
                  1. Yeraz
                    Yeraz 14 December 2013 14: 21
                    +3
                    Quote: smersh70
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    Here, 60 percent of the frenzied Russian Nazi chauvinists! 30 percent of trolls and 10 percent of smart and normal interlocutors !! Unfortunately, representatives of the last 10 percent, very busy people and rarely come here !!))

                    what words !! Respect !!! yesterday and the day before Smile said, do not go into the thread about emigrants ... could not stand it and climbed)))))))) wrote historical facts .... gave examples ... all the Nazis did not care )))) examples and arguments are not given .... only worked as a mouse on the left side wassat

                    Yes, I looked at this thread, taking into account the pluses, you have the smallest minus indicator -19))) and so -35 is stable)))
                3. builder
                  builder 14 December 2013 14: 44
                  +3
                  Sounds like having offended most site visitors
                  1. smersh70
                    smersh70 14 December 2013 14: 55
                    0
                    Quote: stroitel
                    Sounds like having offended most site visitors

                    if the question is for me .. then where and when .. please explain))))
                    1. builder
                      builder 14 December 2013 17: 29
                      +2
                      Quote: smersh70
                      if the question is for me .. then where and when .. please explain))))

                      Not to YOU hi
                  2. Rusich51
                    Rusich51 14 December 2013 16: 51
                    +2
                    Quote: stroitel
                    Sounds like having offended most site visitors

                    Yes, for Americans, our feelings are about xp. Rub down and move on.
                4. The comment was deleted.
                5. builder
                  builder 14 December 2013 17: 32
                  +4
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Here 60 percent of the frantic Russian Nazi chauvinists! 30 percent of trolls and 10 percent of smart and normal interlocutors !!
          4. smersh70
            smersh70 14 December 2013 13: 28
            +1
            Quote: Karlsonn
            I do not call for enmity, but I have an account for a number of peoples who traded my ancestors like cattle.
            a little later, my ancestors bent on these savage fuckers.
            and now the situation is strange.

            but why don’t smoke! don’t want or it ended ..... bully
        2. Rusich51
          Rusich51 14 December 2013 13: 41
          +2
          Quote: xetai9977
          Carlson, you can think of any people whatever you want, but only to yourself. And publicly calling to "kill" anyone is an offense that falls under the criminal code.

          They began to fight the Turks after the accession of the Romanovs. And before that, they always seemed to get along. Maybe wrong?
          1. xetai9977
            xetai9977 14 December 2013 13: 49
            +4
            And after that they fought together against the French. Ushakov landed a Turkish landing on Corfu.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Clegg
        Clegg 14 December 2013 10: 40
        -2
        Quote: Karlsonn
        and when we pull up the Serbs - to the Turks --- Khan!

        Oh Serbs, formidable force))))))
        Which Turks? The Turks should not even bother, you can ask the Albanians. Albanians will show the Serbs where the crayfish hibernate)))
        1. xetai9977
          xetai9977 14 December 2013 10: 42
          0
          Albanians have already shown. And you think the Serbs want to fight? This summer I saw in Montenegro full of cars with Albanian license plates. They walk with the Serbs almost hugging
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 14 December 2013 12: 02
            +3
            Quote: xetai9977
            Albanians have already shown. And you think the Serbs want to fight?


            for trade in organs, slave trade - Albanians will answer wink .
            1. Rusich51
              Rusich51 14 December 2013 13: 43
              +4
              Quote: Karlsonn
              Quote: xetai9977
              Albanians have already shown. And you think the Serbs want to fight?


              for trade in organs, slave trade - Albanians will answer wink .

              And here you are 100% right. Criminals do not have a nationality.
            2. Sandov
              Sandov 15 December 2013 12: 07
              +1
              Quote: Karlsonn
              for trade in organs, slave trade - Albanians will answer

              Kosovo Albanians have violated all human and moral laws. Of course, criminals must answer before the law.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 14 December 2013 12: 00
          +5
          Quote: Clegg
          Oh Serbs, formidable force))))))


          Yes, terrible - are there doubts?

          Quote: Clegg
          The Turks should not even bother, you can ask the Albanians. Albanians will show the Serbs where the crayfish hibernate)))


          You didn’t confuse anything? the fact that this dirt bends Europeans does not mean that we will forgive them.

          humbly or smrt!
          1. Clegg
            Clegg 14 December 2013 12: 12
            +4
            Quote: Karlsonn
            Yes, terrible - are there doubts?

            Of course, the Croats actually showed what Serbs are militarily, about the Albanians already wrote above.
            Contrasting the Serbs with the Turks is stupid.

            Quote: Karlsonn
            the fact that this dirt bends Europeans does not mean that we will forgive them.

            Croatians, too, do not forgive me?)
            1. xetai9977
              xetai9977 14 December 2013 12: 36
              +3
              Carlson ... doesn't mean we forgive them
              The Turks, by and large, do not care what they forgive and what are not. They are engaged in more important matters, strengthening the country.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. alone
              alone 14 December 2013 12: 36
              +4
              Of course, I apologize, Alexey, I have one request for you !!

              Announce the entire list of peoples that you are not going to forgive yet !! Very interesting

              then Turks, Albanians, Croats! who else?
              1. xetai9977
                xetai9977 14 December 2013 12: 50
                +2
                Yes, almost all the states of the world go to their enemies! then maybe the problem is not in the rest of the world?
                1. Rusich51
                  Rusich51 14 December 2013 13: 50
                  +3
                  Quote: xetai9977
                  Yes, almost all the states of the world go to their enemies! then maybe the problem is not in the rest of the world?

                  The fact that a geyropa is a geyropa is well known to everyone. Russia does not have such obvious enemies (well, the Angles with amers and Saudis crap). Turkey is a hassle when it plays on the side of notorious villains. Azerbaijan is a friendly state. He visited Baku. Merchants spoil the impression somewhat. Well, traders always spoil everyone’s mood.
                  So I would not say that the problem is in us.
                  1. xetai9977
                    xetai9977 14 December 2013 14: 02
                    +1
                    I didn’t have you personally. And about those who create the image of Russia as a chauvinistic state supporting the separatists of different stripes. We have the type of Armenians
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. Sandov
                    Sandov 15 December 2013 12: 10
                    +1
                    Quote: Rusich51
                    The fact that a geyropa is a geyropa is well known to everyone. Russia does not have such obvious enemies (well, the Angles with amers and Saudis crap). Turkey is a hassle when it plays on the side of notorious villains. Azerbaijan is a friendly state. He visited Baku. Merchants spoil the impression somewhat. Well, traders always spoil everyone’s mood.
                    So I would not say that the problem is in us.

                    I agree with you, the answer is specific. I urge Azerbaijan to maintain sobriety.
              2. The comment was deleted.
          2. smersh70
            smersh70 14 December 2013 13: 31
            +1
            Quote: Karlsonn
            the fact that this dirt bends Europeans does not mean that we will forgive them.

            humbly or smrt!

            why aren't you a shas in Ukraine ... so, let's ... go on ..... to a rally against Europe .. right now, the fate of Europe is being decided. wassat
        4. RUSS
          RUSS 14 December 2013 16: 21
          +3
          Do not forget about the battle on the Kosovo Field, there the Serbs lost, but they fought fiercely, unlike the Greeks and Bulgarians.
          1. Rusich51
            Rusich51 14 December 2013 16: 58
            +3
            Quote: RUSS
            Do not forget about the battle on the Kosovo Field, there the Serbs lost, but they fought fiercely, unlike the Greeks and Bulgarians.


            The Kosovo field is a bleeding wound of the Serbs, it is a shrine that the Americans managed to tear from the hearts of the Serbs. Kosovo Albanians are still bloodsuckers. Like Wahhabis in Syria, the same methods. And the Geyropic Tolerasts are head over heels in the 9th.
          2. RUSS
            RUSS 14 December 2013 18: 43
            +1
            And yet, the Serbs, unlike most European countries in the 2nd World War, themselves liberated their territory.
            1. alone
              alone 14 December 2013 18: 52
              +3
              Quote: RUSS
              And yet, the Serbs, unlike most European countries in the 2nd World War, themselves liberated their territory.


              http://militera.lib.ru/h/17va/04.html прочтите вот это.написав это вы проявили неуважение к тем советским воинам,которые пали освобождая эту страну.
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 15 December 2013 09: 47
                +2
                Soviet soldiers liberated Yugoslavia, but a significant part was liberated by the Yugoslavs themselves, most of them Serbs.
            2. Sandov
              Sandov 15 December 2013 12: 13
              +2
              Quote: RUSS
              And yet, the Serbs, unlike most European countries in the 2nd World War, themselves liberated their territory.

              Not without our help. The Angles tried a little, but again they were too smart.
      4. alone
        alone 14 December 2013 12: 35
        +2
        Enemy of my enemy, not always my friend)) Alexei welcome! Just look in the world there are many similar examples.
      5. smersh70
        smersh70 14 December 2013 13: 27
        0
        Quote: Karlsonn
        Kurds - wet the Turks !!!

        not long ago in another thread I talked about calls .. this is YOU’s next call from a friend, and calls are mostly made by some friends from a big country .. smile ......
        1. Rusich51
          Rusich51 14 December 2013 14: 40
          +1
          Quote: smersh70
          Quote: Karlsonn
          Kurds - wet the Turks !!!

          not long ago in another thread I talked about calls .. this is YOU’s next call from a friend, and calls are mostly made by some friends from a big country .. smile ......

          In America gentlemen - are they apparently? Well, this is already distinguished by nuland in Kiev - as the hostess wanders, distributes cookies and jam to the bad guys.
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 14 December 2013 14: 53
            +1
            Quote: Rusich51
            In America gentlemen - are they apparently?

            the day before yesterday .. I was advised to ask the local authorities in America about 145000 Japanese who were killed ....... I swear what you want, although I work in local authorities .. in the morning I asked everyone .. nobody knows about the Japanese laughing wassat
            I'm not an American)))) and I was not there ... and the ancestors are not from there laughing
            Quote: Rusich51
            as the hostess wanders, distributes cookies and jam to the bad guys.

            yes let them give out .. sorry for you chtoli .... hungry and cold they are there)))) charity has always been appreciated)))))) it does not hate the Turks..and your brothers Slavs ...
            1. Rusich51
              Rusich51 14 December 2013 17: 00
              +1
              Smersh, Amer’s flag mattress?
            2. Sandov
              Sandov 15 December 2013 12: 16
              +1
              Smersh, 145000 dead apparently Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Well, the Yankees are still hoops. How much blood is shed and still shed until they disappear.
            3. Rusich51
              Rusich51 17 December 2013 20: 42
              0
              Quote: smersh70
              yes let them give out .. sorry for you chtoli .... hungry and cold they are there)))) charity has always been appreciated)))))) it does not hate the Turks..and your brothers Slavs ...

              Death I do not have hatred for any people. I have a hatred of certain states leading an aggressive hateful policy (S W P).
  9. Humpty
    Humpty 14 December 2013 09: 57
    +2
    Kurds are a "peculiar" people, you can visit Russians, Uzbeks, Tajiks.
    They don’t go to the Kurds. Not okay .
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 14 December 2013 10: 14
      0
      Quote: Humpty
      Kurds are a "peculiar" people, you can visit Russians, Uzbeks, Tajiks.
      They don’t go to the Kurds. Not okay .


      go to the yakuts of vodka to drink ... fellow then we'll talk.
      1. Humpty
        Humpty 14 December 2013 17: 15
        +1
        go to the yakuts of vodka to drink ... fellow then we'll talk. [/ quote]

        With the Buryats there is a certain experience.
    2. xetai9977
      xetai9977 14 December 2013 13: 12
      +4
      In history there was one Great Kurd-Salahadin. Europeans called him Saladin. Liberator of the East from the Crusaders
      1. ayyildiz
        ayyildiz 15 December 2013 00: 02
        +3
        Quote: xetai9977
        There was one Great Kurd Salahadin in history

        It is not proven that he was a Kurd!
    3. The comment was deleted.
  10. kair_kz
    kair_kz 14 December 2013 11: 00
    +4
    Quote: Karlsonn

    You really got me - small nationalities! How long ???

    35 million Kurds is this small ethnic group ???
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 14 December 2013 12: 02
      +2
      Quote: kair_kz
      35 million Kurds is this small ethnic group ???


      comrade
      , you did not understand me.
  11. faraon
    faraon 14 December 2013 11: 16
    +1
    let it never be, autonomy will be given in every state, only the Middle East will be redistributed and no one needs either Turkey or Iran or Syria together with Iraq. Since this new entity called the great Kurdistan will not exist peacefully, it will start as new the state will be reborn from chaos to conduct some incomprehensible showdown between itself and neighboring states, a new zone of military conflict has arisen, and nobody needs it. Most likely the countries on which the Kurdish population is located will provide them with autonomy and t stop ihnii secessionist tendencies.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 14 December 2013 12: 04
      +3
      Quote: faraon
      may it never be


      yeah! there was a time - no one believed that the Jews would have their own camp; and how it happened.
      do not promise.
      1. Rusich51
        Rusich51 14 December 2013 13: 54
        +1
        Quote: Karlsonn
        Quote: faraon
        may it never be


        yeah! there was a time - no one believed that the Jews would have their own camp; and how it happened.
        do not promise.


        I agree, everything goes to that. The project has earned. Israel without Russia kirdyk.
        1. Sandov
          Sandov 15 December 2013 12: 19
          0
          Quote: Rusich51
          Quote: Karlsonn
          Quote: faraon
          may it never be


          yeah! there was a time - no one believed that the Jews would have their own camp; and how it happened.
          do not promise.


          I agree, everything goes to that. The project has earned. Israel without Russia kirdyk.


          Yes, Israel needs to think hard before supporting the Wahhabis.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 17 December 2013 00: 03
            0
            Quote: Sandov
            Yes, Israel needs to think hard before supporting Wahhabis
            Yes, there is no kirdyk Israel respected!
            Believe me, Israel will arrange it if she wants kirdyk to all Arab countries combined when she wants !! Israel is very strong and alas, judging by everything on this site, few people want to see it!
    2. wax
      wax 14 December 2013 12: 16
      +3
      Think correctly, Pharaoh. Because after the creation of Kurdistan, especially Great, there will be a question of including Israel and Lebanon in its borders to ensure access to the sea.
    3. Beast
      Beast 14 December 2013 12: 48
      0
      So about that and write. Who (will) benefit from the process of destabilization in the BB, they will move this idea. Moreover, I do not exclude even Israel from the beneficiaries, although, it would seem, who else but him wants peace at hand, but no, there are ideas about the collapse of neighboring states that are bigger and more powerful in the neighborhood and are already building relationships with small ones.
      PS: I read the idea on a reputable site in the comments of an article on the Syrian issue. The author associated himself with Israel.
    4. Yarbay
      Yarbay 14 December 2013 13: 18
      +3
      Quote: faraon
      Since this new entity, called the great Kurdistan, will not exist peacefully, it will begin as a new state is reborn from chaos to conduct some strange clashes between itself and neighboring states, a new zone of military conflict has arisen, and this is not necessary for anyone. Most likely, the countries where the Kurdish is located the population will provide them with autonomy and will be suppressed by their separatist inclinations.

      Israel needs this in order to distract the Arab world from itself, and most likely they will create such a state so that it fights with its neighbors for a long time! There are many advantages for Israel!
      1. Rusich51
        Rusich51 14 December 2013 14: 09
        +3
        Quote: Yarbay

        Israel needs this in order to distract the Arab world from itself, and most likely they will create such a state so that it fights with its neighbors for a long time! There are many advantages for Israel!

        I agree with Alibek, well, it’s not in vain that such activity of Amers and other Saudis is.
  12. RUSS
    RUSS 14 December 2013 12: 10
    0
    They will not allow to be Great Kurdistan, God alone knows. There are no indestructible borders, the Union and Yugoslavia collapsed and continue to disintegrate (Kosovo, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, etc.), Europe begins to burst at the seams, in the Middle East and Libya, the tendency to collapse.
    1. Rusich51
      Rusich51 14 December 2013 14: 42
      +1
      Quote: RUSS
      They will not allow to be Great Kurdistan, God alone knows. There are no indestructible borders, the Union and Yugoslavia collapsed and continue to disintegrate (Kosovo, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, etc.), Europe begins to burst at the seams, in the Middle East and Libya, the tendency to collapse.

      Not to God, but to Vezir in Fashington.
  13. Vladimir.z.
    Vladimir.z. 14 December 2013 12: 16
    +2
    Quote: Civil
    ... Kurds are very warm towards Russians and Russia!
    In Wikipedia, for example, about the ancestors of the Kurds, the following is written: "The Kurtians inhabited the mountainous regions of the junction of Persia and Atropatena of the Media and were a cattle-breeding and robber tribe ..." ... In Russia, in those places where they live, their main occupation is also cattle breeding ... as well as the theft of livestock from the local population and the cultivation of certain types of narcotic plants that they brought with them from their former residences takes place ... refer to Russians and Russia can only be understood by talking to them ... Kurds "understand only strength" ... Does this remind you of anyone?
  14. Yeraz
    Yeraz 14 December 2013 12: 42
    +7
    The smartest move is for Turkey and Iran to try to create Iraqi Kurdistan, then if their Kurds are in full swing to relocate them to their independent state, they say they don’t like to blame them on their own. Perhaps urks from these motives are so friendly with Erbil.
    Sorry or Iraq? These napelku undermine a friend only on the basis of the fact that you are a Shiite I am a Sunni. Although representatives of one nation.
    And do not forget the independence of the Kurds affects Azerbaijan, because the province of Western Azerbaijan in Iran is also included in the non-existent Kurdistan.
    Kurds are waiting for several options
    Their concentration in Iraqi Kurdistan is possible with Syrian
    Or the fate of the Armenians, although the Armenians, unlike the Kurds, occupied a higher position and were more progressive, but in an instant their betrayal came to their side.
    1. Beast
      Beast 14 December 2013 12: 55
      0
      The first option almost automatically means the end of Arab Iraq.
      What kind of betrayal are we talking about?
      1. Yeraz
        Yeraz 14 December 2013 13: 36
        +2
        Quote: Beast
        The first option almost automatically means the end of Arab Iraq.
        What kind of betrayal are we talking about?

        It and without others successfully ruin their state-in.
        Regarding the betrayal. You didn’t think about why the hell suddenly the Turks, the Armenians who were rich, who held high government posts in the state and were part of the elite of that state were expelled and cut, and in the eastern parts of this countries. Because they instigated them in revolts of England and France they say they’ll gain independence, Russia also actively helped and the rebellion was suppressed, the Turks suffered losses, but unlike the Armenians, in the new state they occupied a dominant position, and on lands where Armenians lived now Kurds live.
        And mind you, we forgot one more moment. This affects the interests of world Armenians (just the Armenian state is weaker than the diaspora). The Armenians consider the land claimed by the Kurds in Turkey to be native Armenian, including Mount Agrydag (Ararat).
        1. Beast
          Beast 14 December 2013 14: 32
          +2
          Well, I would not call it a betrayal. With the same success, the Third Reich could call the Belarusian partisans traitors.
          About the Armenians. Well, yes, they are territorially very tightly pressed, but prospects for expansion are not yet expected.
          About the first option. I meant exactly арабский Iraq. In case of development of the situation according to the first scenario, Kurds can oust / destroy Arabs.
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 14 December 2013 14: 50
            +1
            Quote: Beast
            With the same success, the Third Reich could call the Belarusian partisans traitors.

            ..and did the 3 Reich call partisans syabry laughing he called them bandits ... traitors to his people .. and in the same vein ....
            1. Beast
              Beast 14 December 2013 14: 56
              +1
              To be called a traitor, you must at least betray. Feel the difference in terminology.
          2. Yeraz
            Yeraz 14 December 2013 16: 07
            +3
            Quote: Beast
            Well, I would not call it a betrayal. With the same success, the Third Reich could call the Belarusian partisans traitors.
            About the Armenians. Well, yes, they are territorially very tightly pressed, but prospects for expansion are not yet expected.
            About the first option. I meant exactly арабский Iraq. In case of development of the situation according to the first scenario, Kurds can oust / destroy Arabs.

            What does the Belarusians and the Reich have to do with it? Armenians were ministers, generals and held many key posts and, with an uprising in the east, they swore an oath.
            If the Arabs in Iraq forget about their Sunni and Shiism, the Kurds will quickly put them in their place. Many still forget about the Turkman in Iraq, who are the majority in Kirkuk and who have their own units.
            The Kurds in the north are greyhound only because behind America and the Arabs, who are shattered to hell, who are blowing up mosques to a friend.
            1. Beast
              Beast 14 December 2013 16: 24
              +2
              I do not consider opposition to the invaders of the motherland a betrayal.
              I don’t think that Shiites and Sunnis will hug together and forget the feud. In the short term, it is unrealistic. Moreover, there is someone to add fuel to the fire.
              1. Yeraz
                Yeraz 14 December 2013 17: 54
                +2
                Quote: Beast
                I do not consider opposition to the invaders of the motherland a betrayal.
                I don’t think that Shiites and Sunnis will hug together and forget the feud. In the short term, it is unrealistic. Moreover, there is someone to add fuel to the fire.

                But then, finally, there’s Kashcha. The current confrontation with the PKK is due to the fact that the Turks have captured their homeland, but the Armenians are saying their homeland.
                The question means the Chechens were not traitors either. Because they fought against the invaders.
                Well, I also don’t believe in their reconciliation, and what does this infection spread to us in the Caucasus?
                1. Beast
                  Beast 14 December 2013 18: 54
                  +2
                  About uniqueness any phenomena in the universe cannot be said. And by the way, no one canceled the point of view - we see from our bell tower like this.
                  Chechens (and not only) can think anything, but Russia as a state has specific interests in the Caucasus and cannot do anything about it, as long as Russia as a state exists within its current borders and with a leadership that is aware and upholds these interests.
                  Regarding the Kurds and the Armenians: the devil’s leg will be broken there. But the Armenians at least had a state, and quite extensive. With any change on the political map of this region, they may instantly become enemies from friends. And if Turkey has few territories, then I will not be upset at all. In this context, it would be nice for Armenia to come, as the country of Russia is friendly. That is, we can support the Kurds, but very carefully.
        2. Rusich51
          Rusich51 14 December 2013 14: 47
          +2
          Yeraz
          The Armenian Genocide cannot be ignored; it was. And this is a crime against humanity. Without pan-Turkism - agree with this.
          1. Yeraz
            Yeraz 14 December 2013 16: 01
            +1
            Quote: Rusich51
            Yeraz
            The Armenian Genocide cannot be ignored; it was. And this is a crime against humanity. Without pan-Turkism - agree with this.

            [Let's not argue drag out for a long time.
            The fact remains that the Armenians who are rich and well represented in state bodies in the eastern part of Turkey raised a rebellion, hundreds of thousands of Turks were killed (I always know about everything, how I know everything with the Azerbaijanis, but only a few were expelled from Armenia before the Azerbaijanis propaganda, so to speak) and the Armenians got on the head.
            Honesty, I want to say that there was no genocide because, as a result, these immigrants became a headache for Azerbaijan and became the goal of the number to be destroyed for normal development, and of course, the corrupt ones also wound up. Kurds will also suffer the same fate as if the Armenians again listen to their foreign friends. Armenians were already divorced twice in Turkey, and then in Azerbaijan they held good posts and business in Azerbaijan eventually lost the oil industry of Baku and a lot of things in Azerbaijan acquired olupustoy, mined by trenches and the threat of war. Arabs.
            Kurds are dumber than Armenians, so they will be divorced even faster.
          2. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 18: 39
            +2
            Quote: Rusich51
            The Armenian Genocide cannot be ignored; it was. And this is a crime against humanity. Without pan-Turkism - agree with this.

            Give the facts and arguments !!
            Do you have them ??
            I affirm that there was no Armenian genocide, but there was genocide over the Turks by the Armenians and outright betrayal!
            I can confirm with documents, including Russian sources!
          3. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 18: 44
            +5
            Quote: Rusich51
            The Armenian Genocide cannot be ignored; it was. And this is a crime against humanity. Without pan-Turkism - agree with this.

            “In London, the Armenians found the best reception: Gladstone’s cabinet gathered the discontented, grouped them, disciplined and promised his support. Since that time, the propaganda committee has established itself in London and has received relevant suggestions here. It was necessary to introduce two very simple ideas into the mass of the Armenian population: the idea of ​​nationality and the idea of ​​freedom. ”Committees came to distribute them ... and thus, for several years, secret societies spread throughout Armenia: the vices and shortcomings of the Turkish administration are promoted, and in the Armenian the people are awakened by the ideas of nationality and independence (“Armenian affairs in 1893–1897, p. 11,12).
            Cambon quite clearly says that the Armenian committees took upon themselves the task of introducing the ideas of nationalism, freedom and autonomy into the mass of the rural Armenian population. How should the Turkish administration relate to the similar activities of the Armenian agitators, to activities aimed at destroying the state foundations of Turkey? How many times over the past decade, at the insistence of the European powers, she released hundreds of political agitators, who immediately after their release again joined the ranks of the bandits ... The proclamation issued by the Armenian Dashnak committee in August 1896 contained a program of twelve paragraphs in which Armenia needs anything, up to and including freedom of the press, proclamations end like this: “We will die, we know that! ... But the spirit of revolution, which permeated the Armenian nation to the core of its bones, didn’t restanet threaten the throne of Sultan as long as we do not priobretom human rights and yet remain alive at least one Armenian! " Then the signature: “The Central Committee of Constantinople of the Federation of Armenian Revolutionaries“ Dashnaktsutyun ”.
            We know many popular heroes of the Balkan Peninsula. But have you heard anything about the national heroes of the Armenians? Where are the names of their freedom fighters? They are not here. Why? Because these fighters played the role most likely of the executioners of their people, and not of their liberators. Armenian gangs usually caused unrest, massacre, and then hid. The weapons in their hands served to cover their retreat, and the unarmed masses of Armenians were then to pay with their blood and their property for the exploits of their armed brothers. In London, in all likelihood, there were, in all probability, only general considerations, depending on the entire course of the Armenian movement, its general success, it was supposed to provide support corresponding to it. First of all, it was necessary to have trouble, serious trouble, long, bloody. What was their preparation?
            http://journaleast.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/zapiskigeneralnoqokonsula/
            1. Rusich51
              Rusich51 14 December 2013 18: 49
              +4
              Alibek. Thanks for the info. It turns out that the same methods were used as they are now in Syria. Yes, the old Angles are recognized by their deeds.
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 31
                +3
                Quote: Rusich51
                Alibek. Thanks for the info. It turns out that the same methods were used as they are now in Syria. Yes, the old Angles are recognized by their deeds.

                This is not all Vladimir !!!
                Telegram to the Chief of Staff of General Yudenich N.N. 49
                General Nikolaev.
                “Armenians and Kurds, producing clashes among themselves,
                staggering our patronage. "
                31 / X [1914] at 9 p.m.
                Igdir Bayazid, to General Nikolaev.
                Inspire the Armenian squad Dro and the Kurds Abdurrezak, 50 nast
                those who fall upon Abaga Van do not clash with each other, for
                Each of them pursues its own goals. The non-executor loses this
                our patronage.
                Yudenich 2492
                (RGVIA. F. 2100. On. 1. D. 517. L. 29.)
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 32
                  +4
                  Report dated January 4, 1 9 1 5 years for No. 2, written in peri
                  od preceding Armenian resettlement policy
                  population, assistant to the military governor of Kars
                  region to the military governor of the Kars region.
                  “It is necessary to protect Muslim villages from attack
                  Armenians. "
                  I inform your Excellency that last December 28th
                  when driving through the village. Top. Kotanly, Soganlug site, incoming
                  to the fortress area, I, together with an official Ramfopulo and sopro
                  eleven people were detained by the guards
                  Armenians armed with Turkish rifles and berdanks, and three lower
                  them the rank of the 1st battery of the 39 artillery brigade, of which two are Armenians
                  in and one Russian who came to Kotanly for the purpose of robbery.
                  I have taken from those detained above
                  Telev sat. Kotanly 100 rub., Documents and weapons.
                  I still have money and weapons, and a detailed inquiry from are
                  besides the lower ranks, which are released to their unit, with
                  In a report dated last December 30, No. 81, I submitted
                  to the governor of the Kars region. At the same time I report that I sat in the village.
                  Kotanly left 7 people walking guards in full dependency
                  Nii villagers to protect Muslim villages from the attack of the Armenians.
                  Colonel Grigolia.

                  RIGHT:
                  Clerk / signature /
                  (RGVIA. F. 2100. Op. 2. D. 460. L. 36—36 vol.)
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 34
                    +1
                    Telegram of the military governor of Podgursky in Saryk
                    mouse to Colonel Grigolia and the heads of the districts of Arda
                    Gan, Olty, Kagizman.
                    “Take the most decisive measures to end the hornbeam
                    Well, she and looting by the Christian population over
                    Muslim. "
                    For military reasons.
                    Take the most drastic measures [to] stop the looting and
                    looting [from] the Christian population over the Muslim.
                    Declare a court martial and impending severe penalties;
                    delay, disarm, bring the perpetrators to justice. Lower chi
                    Newly transfer to parts. report to me later.
                    Signed. Governor Podgursky. Number 59.
                    Sent January 12, 1915
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 35
                      +1
                      From the report51 commander of the 589th foot squad
                      militia to the commandant of the Kars fortress.
                      "Local Greeks and Armenians rob Kurdish villages and rape
                      Kurdish women. "
                      January 19 1915 years
                      № 143
                      Kars Fortress Commandant
                      REPORT
                      (...)
                      Reporting on the above, I consider my duty to be my duty
                      assume that the local Greeks and Armenians who returned to their villages,
                      under the pretext of searching for their missing cattle and property,
                      traveling in large groups in Kurdish villages and taking advantage of the fact that
                      the Kurds after the flight of the Turkish troops stopped, robbed the Kurdish villages
                      niya and rape Kurdish women. All Greeks and Armenians are armed, and not
                      which of them have established certificates of right to wear
                      and weapons storage. Many of them are armed with Turkish guns. At
                      cash to the Heads of sites such cases would not have occurred, but
                      the administration is completely absent, the troops are not able to
                      It’s important to keep track of this, because they don’t know the population.
                      (RGVIA. F. 2100. Op. 2. D.460. L.110.)
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 37
                        +2
                        Vladimir pay attention to the dates!

                        Letter52 to Kars Fortress Commandant
                        Caucasian army
                        “It is often the case with serious squads
                        skills on the basis of murders, robberies and all kinds of violence. "
                        Secretly
                        Chief of Staff of the Caucasian Army.
                        20th of January 1915
                        № 141
                        Please inform which Armenian squads are formed in the Caucasus
                        case with the names of their superiors, as well as to whom they report
                        neny and which of them are intended for housing in the city of Kars, so
                        as chiefs of squads, arriving and lodging with squads in Kars, not
                        consider it necessary to be at the Headquarters of the fortress to register them, irrespective
                        shaking at my order, transmitted to them through the police chief. Intelligence
                        these are necessary especially because residents with squads often have
                        serious misunderstandings on the basis of murders, robberies and all
                        kind of violence, and also because of the anti-discipline and dismissed
                        the combatants in general.
                        Lieutenant General / Teeth /
                        Chief of staff
                        Colonel / Dieff /
                      2. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 39
                        0
                        Telegram regarding martial law in Kars, on
                        ruled by General Oganowski to the Cav Field Headquarters
                        Kazakh army.
                        “Armenian volunteers are shooting at Russian troops,
                        who did not let them through with the looted property. ”
                        [By] military circumstances
                        Telegram
                        Kars
                        In the Field Headquarters of the Caucasian Army
                        12-45 d I
                        Army commander
                        From Headquarters 4 corps
                        1485
                        Adopted: 31/1, 1915
                        № 25 / 3
                        Accepted: Skatov / signature /
                        Operations department
                        6/6
                        3 1/1 1 9 1 5
                        № 135
                        Case No. 21.
                        General Nikolaev reports on the former case of the shooting of the Armenian
                        of volunteers for our troops who did not pass the Armenians with the loot
                        property. In addition, there have been repeated cases among Armenian
                        Volunteers of robberies and robberies. To put from the very beginning
                        Prevented such crimes, I prescribed General Nicolae
                        wu to establish a field court in Van in the manner of appendix eight to the article
                        1309 twenty-fourth edition book, announced by order of
                        the military department of 1914 number 464. Armenians are subject to charge,
                        entailing the punishments referred to in article 279 twenty-second
                        books. The verdict enters into force immediately upon its announcement in court and is carried out by the order no later than XNUMX hours
                        the chief who formed the court. Certificate of the order of the Supreme
                        commander declared to command the troops of the Caucasian military
                        District May 4, number 158.
                        Number 6325.
                        General Oganovsky.
                        (RGVIA. F. 2100. On. 1. D. 982. L. 3-5.)
                      3. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 40
                        +1
                        From the report of the representative of the military department of the party
                        Dashnaktsutyun read out at the Pan-Armenian National
                        congress in Tiflis in February 1 9 1 5 g.
                        Money allocated for arming and training of Armenians
                        uprisings.
                        As you know, the Russian government issued at the beginning of the war 242
                        rubles for preliminary expenses to arm and prepare
                        Turkish Armenians and during the war within the country to organize an uprising;
                        our volunteer units must break through the Turkish chain
                        army and, united with the rebels, create anarchy in the rear and
                        at the front, if possible, with the enemy, i.e. Turkey, and thereby both
                        to sinter the advance of Russian troops and the seizure of Turkish Armenia.
                        [Boryan B.A. Armenia, international diplomacy and the USSR. Moscow-
                        Leningrad: State Publishing House, 1928. V.1. S.360.)
                      4. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 42
                        +1
                        Telegram of the governor of tsarist Russia in the Caucasus, on
                        Directed to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
                        “About fifteen thousand Turkish citizens are ready
                        attack Turkish posts. ”
                        PETROGRAD
                        TO THE MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                        [C] Present [c] Headquarters of the Caucasian Army arrived
                        the leaders of the Armenians of Zeytun and stated that about fifteen thousand Armenians
                        ready to attack Turkish posts, but have no guns and ammunition.
                        Due to the location of Zeytun on the Turkish Erzurum ar
                        Missions highly desirable number of guns and ammunition to
                        put in Alexandretta, where they will be taken by the Armenians. In view of the fact
                        that the actions of the Zeytun Armenians will be useful to the French and British,
                        in view of the urgency of this issue and the inability to convey
                        shotguns directly from us, I would consider it necessary to snuggle up with
                        French or English representation of desirability before
                        to place French or English rifles and cartridges in Alexandretta
                        on french or english ships.
                        Count Vorontsov-Dashkov
                        Right: Captain / signature /
                        6 February 1915 city
                        (RGVIA. F.2100. Op.1. D.558. L.172.)
                      5. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 45
                        0
                        Telegram of the Russian commander of February 15 1 9 1 5
                        year.
                        “The defeats carried out by Armenians cause fair
                        bitterness of Muslims. "
                        JULFAHA
                        General Chernozubov
                        The Minister of Foreign Affairs telegraphs to the Commander-in-Chief:
                        “Persian envoy complains against Persian refugee Armenians
                        and volunteers who, on the way from Persia to the Caucasus, made a series of
                        robberies, especially in the town of Shoja and Persian Julfa, where
                        government agencies were not spared, [such as
                        respect and telegraph of the Persian and Indo-European campaign. Wherein
                        they killed 4 Persian Cossacks, 2 ferash mail and many live
                        Lei and two Cossacks wounded. Unfortunately, the solidity of this complaint
                        fully confirmed by the reports of Vvedensky, who
                        Khoy saw traces of the defeats carried out by Armenians and Christians-
                        Syrians armed with us. Do not refuse to submit, submit
                        are it possible to take any action against those responsible
                        pogroms, and in what way would you consider preventing a recurrence in
                        the future of similar phenomena that cause a fair bitterness
                        Persian Muslims against Christians in general and who will do
                        It is impossible to return the mentioned refugees to their homeland.
                        doubtfully extremely burdensome for the Caucasus. / Signature / Sazonov. "
                        Please telegraph what measures you have taken
                        Against refugee Armenians and robbery volunteers and
                        what measures would you expect to take for the future.
                        Myshlaevsky.

                        (RGVIA. F.2100. Op.1. D.558. L.207.)
                      6. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 47
                        +1
                        From the monograph of the statesman of the Soviet Ar
                        Menia Boryana B.A. “Armenia, international diploma
                        Tiya and the USSR. "
                        “The suppression by the state of a popular uprising is its
                        historical and legal law. ”
                        It goes without saying that when in the rear of the hostilities ten
                        the thousandth mass riots, 54 opposing the state,
                        and this puts his existence at stake, then the national meaning
                        obliges state authorities and government officials to accept
                        appropriate self-defense measures, seeking those ways to suppress
                        uprising, which are dictated by this place and the general situation
                        Coy, not forgetting that in such an important mission as protecting his own
                        states, the principle can be applied in its entirety: the goal of justification
                        It means. (...)
                        The rebellion of the Armenians was their historical and legal right. If
                        the state brutally suppresses the popular uprising and pacifies the rebellion
                        shih, then this is also his historical and legal right.
                        (Boryan BL. Armenia, international diplomacy and the USSR. V.1. Moscow-
                        Leningrad: State Publishing House, 1928. P.363, 365.)
                      7. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 51
                        0
                        Telegram of General Kalitin to the Commander of the Caucasus
                        army.
                        “I ordered the combatants without documents to disarm and are
                        Stabilize before identifying. ”
                        Telegram
                        Kars
                        Commander of the Caucasian Army
                        From the Headquarters of the corps
                        № 233
                        Accepted: 09.08.1915/XNUMX/XNUMX
                        No. 99/1
                        Accepted / Signature /
                        Operations department
                        Date: 10.08.1915
                        № 3720
                        Spanish 4174
                        The military commanders report that Armenians are entering their area.
                        combatants armed with rifles and without any documents. there is
                        information that they are engaged in robbery. I request that
                        Armenian warriors were not allowed out of their squads without written
                        documents from their superiors. Ordered the warriors without documents
                        Comrade to disarm and arrest until identification. 1277.
                        Cavalry General Kalitin.
                        (RGVIA. F.2100. Op.1. D.982. L.Z.)
                      8. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 55
                        +1
                        Telegram of General Bolkhovitinov dated 17
                        March 1 9 1 6 g.
                        "In view of the ongoing incidents of violence by combatants over
                        Muslims, I was forced to withdraw this squad from th
                        kind ".
                        RATE
                        GENQUAWH69
                        1536 For a comprehensive clarification of data on incidents
                        the teas of the brutal attitude of the Armenian warriors towards civilians to
                        Turks and the participation of allegedly our Cossacks were asked
                        respective chiefs, with the Head of the Bitlis column
                        Lieutenant General Abatsiev reported: “I unconditionally deny participation
                        Cossacks in this matter, repeatedly traveled around Bitlis and around
                        During this time, I have never received complaints about the atrocities of the Cossacks,
                        and especially on the beating of civilians. As for the Armenian
                        squads, where there are many Turkish citizens, then on the third
                        Bitlis class day due to ongoing violence
                        vigilantes over Muslims I was forced to withdraw this friendship
                        well from the city and send her to the landmark Bitlis-Mush Line. Digit
                        two thousand people killed in Bitlis, referred to in
                        Turkish radio telegram, I consider unconditionally exaggerated. When
                        I became aware of cases of massacre of civilians by Armenians,
                        called the Head of the Armenian squad of Andronik to investigate.
                        Andronic told me that such cases are quite natural, so
                        as among them there are many people who at one time the Turks cut out
                        wives, children and close relatives. I know the following case
                        in Todwan: 70 in one of the houses were lodged on one half of the arrows
                        ki, to another Armenian warriors. Arrows sheltered, fed more
                        twenty homeless Muslim children. When the arrows were sent for reconnaissance and then returned, they found all the children slaughtered
                        mi For the time of absence, only Armenians remained in the house. Inquiry,
                        produced by me on this occasion, definitely established teaching
                        the presence of Armenians in this matter, but, unfortunately, did not reveal the perpetrators, since
                        Armenian warriors confused the testimonies so much that they couldn’t make out
                        there was an opportunity
                        .
                        Bolkhovitinov.

                        (RGVIA. F.2100. Op.1. D.646. L .89,89 about.)
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 01
    +1
    Quote: Rusich51
    It turns out the same methods were applied

    From an article on the loss of the Kurdish population
    published in November 1 9 1 6 in the press
    Armenian nationalists.
    “The Kurds also had huge losses.”
    LOSS OF KURDS IN THE PRESENT WAR
    The question is what will be the number of Muslim population
    in Turkish Armenia after the war, is important for polit
    The fate of our country. Often you hear that the Kurds
    suffered huge losses during the war, but the first reasonable
    Mr. A. Atanasyan, one of the
    Commissioners of the Union of Cities on the Caucasian Front.
    “I have received and verified information,” he says, “until
    they say that if the Armenians during the war gave 360 casualties, then the Kurds also had huge losses.
    The whole space - from Lake Van to the south and west, paradise
    she is Bitlis-Bush, then through Khnys, Bulanyk, Patnots, Manazkert, Ala-
    Dagi with Alashkert to the areas of Basen and Bayazid-Diadina, where
    Before the war, more than 800 Kurds lived, now completely
    empty. Hundreds of Kurdish villages are destroyed and devastated. Interest
    but find out if the Kurds evicted these areas during the retreat
    Niya Turks in other areas or died?
    Both that and another happened, and it must be borne in mind that the eviction,
    The retreat was committed under very unfavorable conditions:
    during the retreat of all kinds of epidemic diseases literally
    Mr. sense, destroyed entire Kurdish tribes and areas, and famine and
    cold completed the cause of destruction.
    “From my 20 villages,” the famous Kurdish tells me.
    a landowner in Khoshab Bahribek, in which more than 12 Kurds lived,
    during the first 6-7 months of the war, more than died from diseases
    8 LLC. My peasants were comparatively more favorable
    Conditions than others, for we almost did not budge. Concerning
    Our other tribes, many of them almost completely exterminated. In families in which there were 20-30 souls before the war, now you can’t even count
    3-4 people. It’s the same everywhere. Do not forget, he continued,
    that you, Armenians, have medical personnel, medicines, sisters mi
    llerdia, orderlies; you have nutrition points, national and
    government organizations that care about the backing
    population: feed, dress and provide all kinds of assistance to refugees,
    collect orphans and give them shelter. And we? Turkish government is nothing
    does not give us and did not give us, except for those terrible robberies that he
    produced with us under the name of requisition. All our cattle breeding, on
    which builds the strength of the Kurds, perished - from fire, hunger or requi
    position.
    The story of the Kurdish Bek is true. Rulers
    Armenian volunteer squads unanimously state the same
    the most.

    (Losses of Kurds in a real war / / Armenian Bulletin. 1916.13
    November. Number 42. P.15.)
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 04
      +1
      Telegram of the Commander-in-Chief of the Caucasian Forces
      front of Przhevalsky MA, directed to the military
      Governor-General in Tiflis.
      “Armenian refugees arriving from Russia are going to
      to slaughter the Turks. ”
      A copy of the Przewalski telegram dated May 10 [1917]
      № 4269.
      Tiflis.
      Vogenguber. 72
      [In] half of April, information was received that [in] the Ashkala area on
      Turks are gathering. Wanted [in] the villages of Urati, Jyn, Mardivan
      these chi were not confirmed. Only nine askers were detained. Between
      According to the chief of intelligence, the party of civilian Turks working in the railway detachment of the Ashkala region, said
      him that they will be forced to go on strike soon, for arriving from
      Russian refugee Armenians are going to arrange [in] soon the massacre of the Turks. I ask for your orders for the inadmissibility of such
      speeches by the Armenians.
      4269.
      Przhevalsky.
      (RGVIA. F.2100. Op.1. D.94. L.2.)
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 08
        +2
        From a report73 of the Russian colonel from the headquarters occupied
        ny territories.
        “In order to avoid national hatred and enmity it is necessary and
        give the Turks a weapon of self-defense. ”
        4 September 1917 year.
        № 1962
        Mountains Tiflis
        REPORT TO THE COMMISSIONER-GENERAL
        Owing to your resolution at the report presented at this
        I report for No. 11353:
        I / Draft new regulation on the management of occupied areas
        Turkey provides for the arming of rural police in all
        rural communities of the region, regardless of their nationality. So
        zom, by virtue of the aforementioned project, the rural police will also arm themselves
        purely Turkish villages. This question was discussed in detail and comprehensively.
        the commission that worked out the regulation, and it was not recognized
        bypassed not to make exceptions for the Turks, since Lazistan almost
        entirely populated by Turks and oturechennymi Laz, villages of which are under
        chant attacks of robber gangs no less than in other locally
        in the interests of justice and in order to avoid national
        hostility and hostility, it is necessary to give the Turks a weapon of self-defense. TO
        by the same token, the Lazistanian population is peaceful by nature, and with its
        side excesses in relation to the troops was not observed. (...)
        Colonel Ostryansky.
        (RGVIA. F.13227. Op. 2. D.22. L. 130,130 about.)
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 09
          +1
          From telegram No. 3 6 2 7 3 of the commander of the Caucasian Army
          She dated October 5, 1917.
          “The beating of the Turks by soldiers and sailors was incited by the Armenians on the basis of national intolerance.”
          Komkor74 5 of September 22 at No. 02864 reports that September 16 at
          Elleu area was beaten by Turks soldiers and sailors,
          apparently incited by Armenians on the basis of national intolerance
          bridges. Robberies, robberies and murders continue to be committed now.

          De Witt.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 11
            0
            Letter from the commander of the Turkish Caucasian armies
            of the front of Ferik Vehib-Mehmed to the commander-in-chief of the Russian troops of the Caucasian Front, General Przheval
            skomu M.A.
            "After the departure of the headquarters of the Russian corps from Erzincan violence
            Armenians turned into a drama forcing bloodshed
            human heart "
            .
            Commander-in-Chief of the Caucasian Front, General Przhevalsky.
            Your Excellency!
            I bring my thanks with all my heart
            order given to the relevant responsible posts for the protection of the Ottoman
            Muslim subjects - Muslims in the well-known Russian troops
            provinces against the cruelties of Armenians, and for the promise to take action
            drastic and stringent measures against all kinds of potential
            inappropriate actions. I have been informed about the incidents that have occurred recently, to the commander of the Caucasian army, General
            Odishelidze with a request to take measures to terminate those. SCH
            I, unfortunately, find it necessary and useful to bring to Your Excellency the following parts of the information that I could
            receive. Crimes of Armenians, especially after the departure of the Russian headquarters
            Corps from Erzincan, having crossed the border of single intrusions into homes and killings in secluded places, began to take on a wider scale in the form of open attacks on villages, the general rape of women, the beating of the entire male population and the betrayal of villages
            to the fire.
            By the way, the village of Zekkih, located in eighteen ki
            meters to the south-east of Erzincan, on January 12, 1334, 76 was doomed
            but [on] this unfortunate fate. About a week ago on m u s l m a nsk o
            The village of Koska, located three kilometers from Ardasy, was also
            an attack was made by an Armenian gang of thirty people, and here the same human heart was forced to bleed
            drama, after which the village was also burned.
            (...) In anticipation of the acceleration of restrictive measures, I ask
            f accept the assurance of the longest sincere to your High Alert -
            1 Guidelines respect.
            I
            The commander of the armies of the Caucasus Front Ferik Vekhib-Mehmed. 77
            Received in Tiflis on February 1 (14), 19 1 8.
            (Documents and materials on the foreign policy of Transcaucasia and Gro
            zii. Tiflis, 1919. P. 42-43.)
          2. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 17
            +3
            Telegram of the commander of the Russian Caucasian Army
            her Odishilidze I.Z.
            “Armenian troops commit mass atrocities over security
            the Turkish population, not excluding women and children. ”
            Tiflis. To the Chairman of the Transcaucasian Government
            Copy: Commander-in-Chief
            February 16
            № 225
            Sarykamysh
            136 5 132 15 12 10
            Date: 1/5.02.1918/XNUMX
            No. 7 7
            3 2/3 6 5/1
            146 4
            The Armenian units now standing against the Turkish troops, were
            completely incapacitated even with the robber Kurdish parties
            kami, absolutely unstable in front of the Turkish regular troops and just as unfulfilled as the outgoing Russian troops: they quickly decompose, which is greatly facilitated by the actual impunity of their mass atrocities over unarmed Turkish
            population, not excluding women and children.
            Flour for the people in Erzurum
            grab no more than two weeks, crackers - for two weeks, forage - completely
            no, and the horses disappear in droves; you between Erzurum and Sary-
            reed inclusively all food and forage stores, as well
            [and] weapons depots looted by Russian units under the leadership of
            revolutionary committee, and everything is taken away. If troops and XNUMX Armenian population are forced to move back
            in this desert, arranged by the departed Russian revolutionary
            troops, then they will be brutalized with hunger, and it is difficult to predict what will happen to
            the surrounding population and the troops themselves. Therefore, I allow myself to advise the Government: the first is to attend to the drive to Sarykama-
            shu food and fodder; the second is not to delay the start of peace negotiations and the conclusion of peace itself, moreover, one of the conditions of peace
            It is advisable to grant permission for the vastly millions of property abandoned by the Russian troops and the escaped transports, as well as the early departed railway troops. February, 15
            191 8 g. 7 5 4 5 3
            Odishilidze.
            (RGVIA. F. 2100. Op. 1. D.698. L. 4-5.)
          3. Day 11
            Day 11 14 December 2013 20: 20
            +3
            Alibek, are you all right? Brakes Alibek (no offense)
          4. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 22
            +2
            Quote: Den 11
            Alibek, are you all right? Brakes Alibek (no offense)
            Yes)) but there are too many documents))))))))
            I have not yet brought half !!!


            from the brochure of Khachikoglyan T., published by the political
            KKA administration on the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the establishment of the Armenian Rifle Division.
            “With the bloodshot hands of the Dashnaks, thousands of Turks were destroyed.”
            Suffice it to recall the war with Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey
            for a short period of the inglorious existence of the Dashnak “republic”, the atrocities, massacres, robberies that took place in Zangezur, Shara-
            re, Daralagese, Megra, Agbabe, Zangibasar, Eyuk-Vedi, in Turkic villages
            and in the villages where you, with blood and arms of dash nakov, are you working people
            the Turks were destroyed, and their villages were destroyed and turned into ashes
            schA. (...)
            The psychology of toadiness, servility, about
            arbitrariness, robbery, the psychology of talent, living at the expense of another, killing innocent and helpless.
            [Khachikoglyan T. 10 years of the Armenian Rifle Division. Tiflis: Publishing house of the Political Administration of the KKA, 1930. S. 4, 6.)
          5. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 27
            0
            From the book of the Soviet historian Irandust, "The driving forces of the Kemalist revolution."
            "The program of physical extermination of the Turkish population was carried out quite consciously under the leadership of the French occupiers."
            Terrorism is established in occupied areas. Fran
            tsuzi form gendarmerie units from the Dashnaks who commit mass killings of the Turkish population. Allies
            officially discuss the project of the organization of "Great Armenia" from
            Mediterranean to the Black Sea, including Cilicia tea and eastern provinces
            Turkey, to Trebizond. (...)
            Dashnak gangs, (...) massacred in a number of cases without exception
            villages.
            (...) This program of physical extermination of the Turkish population was carried out quite consciously under the leadership of the invaders. (...)
            (Irandust. Driving forces of the Kemalist revolution. Moscow-
            Leningrad: State and Building, 1928. P.67, 69.)
          6. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 31
            0
            From the report of the Chief of the General Staff of Dashnak Armenia
            Colonel Zinkevich on August 17, 1919.
            “We need an area freed from Muslims.”
            “The goal of independence is the desire to gather the entire Armenian people in order to protect it from scattering all over the world, like the Jews. For
            this needs an area freed from Muslims, and a patron who would protect and raise the economically future Armenia is needed.
            Russia, as a country of people equally related to all nations, will not allow Armenians to evict Tatars. As for economic assistance, it can be provided by Russia only after 15 years. (...)
            [Denikin A.I. Essays on Russian Troubles. T.4. Berlin, 1925. P.174.)
          7. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 33
            0
            From the report of the Dashnak officer, written by him from the new Bayazet - Varama in 1920
            “The surest remedy against the Tatars is to collect all the survivors after the battle, fill the wells with them and crush heavy stones from above.
            I destroyed the Tatar population in Bassar-Gechar without understanding any
            in what. Sometimes you feel sorry for the bullet. The surest remedy against these dogs
            - it is after the battle to collect all the survivors, overfill them with wells and
            crush heavy stones from above so that they are no longer in the world. I did just that: I gathered all the men, women and children and did away with
            them, having filled with stones the wells into which they had been thrown by me before.
            [Lalayan A.A. Counter-revolutionary role of the Dashnaktsutyun party / /
            Historical notes. 1928. No. 2. P. 101.)
      2. Day 11
        Day 11 14 December 2013 20: 31
        +2
        I (personally) do not need to explain it. You gave me links, I read everything. I also read Armenian articles. So, in your dispute with the Armenians, I try to be neutral. And at the same time I don’t want something- if you could cut out each other’s liver. Give time — we’ll dissolve your question
      3. Yarbay
        Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 35
        0
        Quote: Den 11
        I (personally) do not need to explain it. You gave me links, I read everything. I also read Armenian articles. So, in your dispute with the Armenians, I try to be neutral. And at the same time I don’t want something- if you could cut out each other’s liver. Give time-we’ll be unhappy and your question

        No time Denis!
        I am not interested in the interests and desires of Russia, just as you are not interested in the problems of my homeland!
        Let all of Russia burn out as soon as we solve our problems with the Armenian fascists and we will solve your problems !!!
      4. Yarbay
        Yarbay 14 December 2013 20: 44
        0
        From a telegram from one of the most prominent Bolshevik leaders Kirov S.M. 101 from June 29, 1920
        “Dashnaks directed all the power of anger against Muslims, Russians”.
        Chicherin, Moscow.
        The White Terror of the Dashnaks is ongoing. After the strangulation of the nascent Soviet power in the Kars region and Alexandropol
        Dashnaks directed all the power of anger against Muslims, Russians. Of
        thirty thousand Russian population in the Kars region remained fifteen, the rest either fled to Turkey or Russia, or died. Mauserist units looted in villages
        population; peasants of the village of Novoselima for refusing to carry underwater
        conscription on the orders of the commander of the fourth regiment polls carved out. Fifteen Muslim villages in the Tukhurtsky district, you were slaughtered and fled.
        June 29, 1920. No. 94.
        Kirov.
        (RGASPI. F.5. Op. 1. D. 2178. L.1.)
      5. Day 11
        Day 11 14 December 2013 20: 46
        +2
        I understood everything ... Don’t unite with Turkey? I understand, for a lively backlog. Are our interests taken into account?
      6. Yarbay
        Yarbay 14 December 2013 21: 22
        +2
        Quote: Den 11
        I understood everything ... Don’t unite with Turkey? I understand, for a lively backlog. Are our interests taken into account?

        And why should we consider your interests ????
        Have our interests ever been taken into account by your country!
        I consider that it is necessary to act as it is favorable to us! Purely in communication between nations, please, we will visit, drink, eat, walk !! In relations between states, the farther from Russia, the better!
        The question is not what hurt, I have known the face of Russian politics for a long time and your words weren’t news for me! I just want you to understand that we have already left school uniforms for a long time !!
      7. Clegg
        Clegg 15 December 2013 13: 10
        -1
        Quote: Yarbay
        In relations between states, the farther from Russia, the better!

        You are speaking the truth)
        Azerbaijan has a better position than ours. We are, as it were, in union with it, so far only in the economic. Although Nazarbayev vowed that there would be no political union, I do not trust this radish)))
      8. Sandov
        Sandov 15 December 2013 20: 00
        0
        Quote: Clegg
        Quote: Yarbay
        In relations between states, the farther from Russia, the better!

        You are speaking the truth)
        Azerbaijan has a better position than ours. We are, as it were, in union with it, so far only in the economic. Although Nazarbayev vowed that there would be no political union, I do not trust this radish)))

        Nazarbayev very carefully and competently conducts business in Kazakhstan. For which we respect in Russia. There would be more such people who do not separate peoples, but unite.
  • RUSS
    RUSS 15 December 2013 09: 54
    -1
    Comrade Aiser-Ts, that you’re talking, go to bed early tomorrow to get up the sheep’s mouth.
  • Clegg
    Clegg 15 December 2013 10: 50
    +2
    Quote: RUSS
    Comrade Aiser-Ts, that you’re talking, go to bed early tomorrow to get up the sheep’s mouth.

    Well, as expected, no arguments went insults
  • RUSS
    RUSS 15 December 2013 10: 57
    +1
    xasharat. From you plus me for a sense of humor.
  • RUSS
    RUSS 15 December 2013 11: 04
    0
    Insults? Your Yeraz is ready to tear the Armenians to pieces and at the same time say ara, wai! This is where insults and humiliation with anger.
  • smersh70
    smersh70 15 December 2013 22: 04
    +1
    Quote: RUSS
    Your Yeraz is ready to tear the Armenians to pieces and

    where is the turn))) clean me there too)))) and in the end I’ll leave only the Stoic, because he owes me a can of cognac ..... wassat
  • alone
    alone 15 December 2013 23: 03
    +2
    wassat heaps of the stoic too, I’ll give you cognac myself)))
  • Day 11
    Day 11 15 December 2013 23: 10
    0
    Sin is drinking alcohol. Just like eating pork. I just don’t need it here ... Swam, we know
  • alone
    alone 15 December 2013 23: 26
    +3
    Denis! you probably know this Rubai)) well, this is for those who don’t know))



    Wine is prohibited, but there are four "buts":
    It depends on who, with whom, when and to the best of his ability to drink wine.
    Subject to these four conditions
    All sane wine is allowed.

    Omar Khayyam

    laughing The author is not to be confused with me. I am not capable of this!
  • Day 11
    Day 11 15 December 2013 23: 42
    +1
    Well done, got out laughing
  • alone
    alone 15 December 2013 13: 09
    +2
    and didn’t try a hangover?
  • Sandov
    Sandov 15 December 2013 12: 35
    +1
    Quote: Yarbay
    No time Denis!
    I am not interested in the interests and desires of Russia, just as you are not interested in the problems of my homeland!
    Let all of Russia burn out as soon as we solve our problems with the Armenian fascists and we will solve your problems !!!

    But this is in vain. Calm down do not lose your head Alibek.
    No raids on Russia.
  • Sandov
    Sandov 15 December 2013 12: 33
    0
    Quote: Den 11
    Alibek, are you all right? Brakes Alibek (no offense)

    Who will stop Alibek. So boiling up?
  • smersh70
    smersh70 15 December 2013 21: 56
    +1
    Quote: Den 11
    Alibek, are you all right? Brakes Alibek (no offense)

    hi DEN !!!! this is all because of the fact that it hasn’t been there for a long time) 0 shells have accumulated)))
  • Day 11
    Day 11 15 December 2013 22: 04
    +1
    Hi buddy! I realized that yesterday
  • Sandov
    Sandov 15 December 2013 12: 26
    0
    Quote: Rusich51
    Alibek. Thanks for the info. It turns out that the same methods were used as they are now in Syria. Yes, the old Angles are recognized by their deeds.

    Yes, the Angles in Russia have spoiled a lot, and the oil fields in Azerbaijan were seized by mine.
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 14 December 2013 18: 53
    0
    Representatives of the Armenian community had a significant influence
    development and implementation of Ottoman foreign policy
    Empire during the Balkan wars. Armenian Agop Pasha Ghazazyan was
    Minister of Finance, and Marshal Garabet Arin Daud led the Mini
    by mail, telegraph and telephone. In subsequent years, this
    the ministry was ruled three times by the Armenians. At the Ministry of
    public affairs three Armenians succeeded each other as mini
    country In many leading countries of the world, the Ottoman state is a
    set by ambassadors of Armenian nationality. For example, Garabet
    Arin Daoud Pasha was ambassador to Berlin and Vienna, Dikran Aleksayan - to
    Brussels, Yettwart Sohrab in London, and Kuyumjuyan Pasha in Rome.
    In addition, many Armenians worked in missions abroad.
    run in various positions. So, an adviser to the embassy in Ber-
    the line was Dikran Tingir, a similar position in Brussels
    small Mihran Kavafyan. In various embassies of the Ottoman Empire
    15 consuls and 12 Armenian secretaries worked. Three Armenians in the ran-
    Ge Pasha held the post of Minister of the Treasury, 18 Armenians worked as
    rectors, four of them were represented in the State
    Vete, the rest are involved in the bureaucratic hierarchy. More
    50 Armenians were lieutenant commanders or a senior
    representatives of the Ministry of the Interior. In 1855, ar
    myan were exempted from the jizya poll tax levied on
    non-Muslim population and liberating them from military
    of guilt, and from that time they began to be drafted into the army.http: //irs-az.com/pdf/090625155232.pdf

    in 1913, the position of Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Ottoman Empire was occupied by the Armenian Gabriel Noradughyan.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 14 December 2013 18: 56
      0
      From an article published in 1912 in the Orizon newspaper
      - The press organ of the Dashnaktsutyun party.
      “Neither the Turks nor the Turkish state now have a nickname
      what values ​​for Armenians "
      .
      Let Turkish statesmen, arbiters of fate know
      Turkey that neither the Turks nor the Turkish state henceforth have a nickname
      value for the Armenians, and they are forced to think about other ways
      to preserve its existence. (...)
      (Orizon. 1912. No. 196. Quoted from: Karamyan K.N.
      Armenians, “Armenian Question” and international diplomacy in the latter
      quarters of the XIX century and the beginning of the XX century. E
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 14 December 2013 18: 58
        0
        Secretly
        Chief of staff
        Caucasus Military District
        By department
        District Quartermaster General
        Office: Intelligence.
        February 12, 1913 32
        № 2578
        Mountains Tiflis
        Political information from Asian Turkey.
        To the General Quartermaster of the General Staff.
        I inform recently received political information from
        Asian turkey.
        From Harput reported that local authorities established a strict
        supervision of Armenians, especially travelers. Set
        inspection of not only their baggage, but also generally brought to the vilaye
        that goods. Searches several times have been found secretly about
        transportable weapon. Several guilty Armenians arrested. Nonetheless
        the gradual arming of the Armenian population continues.
        Lieutenant General / signature /
        For the General Quartermaster of the General Staff
        Colonel / signature /
        Department Director
        Colonel / signature /
        (RGVIA (Russian State Military Historical Archive).
        F. 2000. On. 1. D. 7716. L. 4 0 2, 4 0 2 vol.)
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 00
          +1
          From the monograph of the statesman of the Soviet Ar
          Menia Pirumova S.G. "Dashnaks abroad."
          Tsarist Russia’s project “Armenia without Armenians” and the role of the Dashnaks.
          Tsarist Minister Lobanov-Rostovsky, characterizing his policy
          government on the "Armenian issue", expressed it with an exclusivity
          precision and cynicism in a certain position: “We need Armagh
          Niya - without Armenians! ”
          The Militant Party of Armenian Nationalism - Dashnaktsutyun
          - did everything in her power to practically wasp
          To honor the slogan of the tsarist minister: she wrote on her banner:
          "Independent and united Armenia" and ... with the "help" of tsarist ge
          neralov, British ministers, French bankers, American
          "Humanists" and all kinds of priests in Turkey has achieved "Armenia", but
          indeed, without Armenians.
          [Pirumov S.G. Dashnaks abroad. Tiflis: Publication of a scientific association
          Oriental Studies, 1934. P.129.)
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 03
            0
            From the work “Red Book”, written in prot
            weight to Armenian allegations by deputy minister
            agriculture in Menshevik Georgia - Caribi. 34
            “Whoever finds himself in the place of the Turks, they would do so
            in the same way. ”
            In the late 1880s, European diplomacy skillfully took advantage
            It was a natural discontent of the Armenians in Turkey. She began to kindle
            this discontent, thereby wishing to prevent the establishment of a lasting agreement
            relations between Russia and Turkey, threatening political
            balance in the Middle East and the forward movement of the Ros
            these to the straits.
            In view of this threat, European diplomacy has made every effort to
            in one way or another to draw Russia into a new war with Turkey
            or weaken Turkey so much with internal strife that alliance with
            it no longer seemed more profitable for Russia.
            Western European politicians to achieve their
            goals in this direction cleverly inspired the Armenians to think about the severity of their
            situation in Turkey and aroused in them the idea of ​​an opportunity to get out of
            this position on their own with the support of Europe. (...)
            Why did Kurds and Turks attack Armenians and at the same time they
            had no collision, even with the Greeks, even when
            a bloody war was opened between Greece and Turkey. 35 From
            Vet is clear. Greek population of Turkey during the Greek-Turkish war
            behaved correctly, loyally, maintained complete neutrality. It is not
            took no part in the cause of war. It calmly awaited a re-
            the results of the war. Of course, no one bothered him to sympathize with
            feel in the soul of their congeners to the Greeks.
            The Armenian population of Turkey, thanks to the Armenian revolution
            parties, 36 openly sided with the enemies of his sovereign
            and thereby incurred the wrath of their compatriots Kurds and
            Turk. (...)
            Place Christian Russia or High Culture instead of Turkey
            tour Germany. What would Russia do if the Russian Poles, in
            the name of the idea of ​​uniting all Poles into one state organism,
            living in Europe, would join the Austrian Poles, go
            would war on Russia, the subjects of which they were? What would you do
            Germany, if the French of Alsace and Lorraine organized
            volunteer squads to fight Germany? Naturally, these
            cultural Christian states would do the same thing as de
            Lala and does Turkey with the Armenians. (...) Why, it was yesterday with fire and
            England dealt with Ireland, which did not even think to join
            to the enemies of England, but only demanded to regain its former independence
            telnost.
            (Caribi. Red Book. Tiflis, 1920. P. 21-22, 2 5, 8 2 - 83.)
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 04
              0
              From a course of lectures on military geography "Turkey"
              Sora of the Military Academy of the Red Army, commander of the Korsun N.G. 37
              “Muslims outnumbered Armenians five times
              ".
              Armenians with a total number before World War 38 about 1 LLC
              people settled mainly in vilayets of Armenia (composition
              parts of the Great and Lesser Ancient Armenia). On this whole terry
              Muslim torii (Turks and Kurds) were five times superior to their Armenians
              number, but in the territory adjacent to our border 39 to
              the war of 1914-1918, two-thirds of the total Armenian concentration was concentrated
              th population of Asian Turkey, but here the Armenians were only
              25% of the population, and in general Muslims, outnumbered them
              three times.
              [Korsun N.G. Turkey / / Course of lectures on military geography delivered
              at the Military Academy of the Red Army. M .: Supreme Military Editorial Council,
              1923. P.37.)
            2. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 07
              0
              From the monograph "Alashkert and Hamadan operations
              on the Caucasus front of the world war in 1 9 1 5 year ”gene
              Ral and Professor N. Korsun, published by the publisher
              People's Commissariat of Defense of the USSR.
              “Military authorities and Turkish population kept themselves correct
              exactly with respect to the evacuees. "
              Regarding these reforms, 40 Russia acted as an official
              bloodline of Armenians. This policy was designed to end
              the total enslavement and oppression of the Armenian people by the landowner
              the capitalist classes of Russia. With the outbreak of war, royal right
              The government immediately formulated its requirements, which amounted to
              the implementation of the so-called "historical" tasks, that is, to capture
              that straits with Constantinople and Turkish Armenia.
              The tsarist government paid serious attention to the study
              the above zones, especially Turkish Armenia with its complex
              national political conditions. (...) Russian command
              hoped to rely on Armenians and Aysor during the Caucasian invasion
              armies within Turkey. (...)
              Deep invasion of Russians in Armenia, in addition to the military
              of political importance, indicating a zone of interest
              tsarist Russia in a share of the "inheritance" of Ottoman Turkey, threatened
              the main area of ​​this state - Anatolia - and under construction
              Germans of the Baghdad Railway, which had a large strategic
              The importance of German-Turkish operations in the Middle East. Together
              this invasion brought the Russians closer to Mosul oil. Besides
              Moreover, the deep penetration of Russians into Turkey provides
              but generally the borders of Transcaucasia and the Russian
              western regions of Persia from the invasion of the Turks and, in particular, Baku
              oil area and manganese deposits in Chiatura. (...)
              As the Ministry of Internal Affairs reported, at the beginning of the war, and especially in the first period of the Sarykamysh fighting, the Armenian population was almost completely armed with the latest weapons, and this in
              weapons continued at an accelerated pace even when all
              the danger of a Turkish invasion within the Transcaucasus has passed.
              On
              Ministry of Internal Affairs reports, Armenian squads
              whether his own special headquarters, and in the last correspondence
              addressed: “Tiflis, the main Armenian headquarters, Hatisov (urban
              to the head). ” At the same time, the organization of these squads and a special patron
              The society that turned out to them, gave rise to aggravated relations between ar
              Myanians and other peoples of the Caucasus. (...)
              About one million people were evacuated during the indicated time.
              skill. The military authorities and the Turkish population behaved correctly
              in relation to the evacuated. (...) Epidemics and hardships cost a living
              nor about 50% of those evacuated.
              This evacuation deprived the 3rd Turkish army of officials, specialists

              stov and workers from among the Armenians.
              (Korsun N.G. Alashkert and Hamadan operations in the Caucasus
              front of the world war in 1915. M .: State Military Publishing House
              Association of People's Commissariat of Defense of the USSR, 1940. P.6—7, 1 5 3, 1 8 9.)
            3. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 10
              0
              From an article by a prominent statesman and scientist
              Soviet Armenia Karinyana A.B.4 '"To the characteristics of ar
              Myan nationalist movements. "
              “Armenian volunteer units systematically destroyed
              stinged the Kurdish and Turkish population. "
              (...) Now they no longer concealed their cherished aspirations, did not hide
              completely and their hatred of all non-Christian groups,
              living in Turkish Armenia. Inspired by the victories of the Russians
              troops "volunteers", 42 now upon invading the conquered region,
              made every effort to “consolidate” their influence, and for
              achievements of this resorted to the method of physical extermination of all not
              Armenian population. (...)
              One of the major obstacles to the implementation of the intended
              the ideal was the motley ethnic composition of Turkish Armenia and ma
              the number of Armenians in “six vilayets”. Armenians in only a few
              areas constituted a small majority. The number of all
              other groups, especially Muslims
              league was immeasurably greater. Therefore, in relation to these
              The following groups were developed, at the initiative of the Dashnaktsu party
              tyun, the measure indicated above. From the reports and orders of the Russian army it is clear that the Armenian volunteer groups were engaged mainly in the extermination of the cool
              Stian civilians. Systematically destroying the Kurdish and
              Turkish population, volunteer units carried out the party plan
              Dashnaktsutyun, which consisted of “cleansing” the Armenian territory
              rii from the Muslim element and the "rounding" of borders. "Program"
              this was carried out so persistently that it repeatedly caused
              liberty in the ranks of the leaders of the Russian army. This program was
              disastrous for the Armenians themselves. In fact, Armenian farmers, of course,
              were interested in attracting both Kurds and
              Turkish peasants. For centuries, working in the same conditions with an Armenian
              mi, Kurds and the working masses of Turkey were associated with their neighbors
              community of interests. It was so clear that often noticing
              moose even military diplomats of Russian tsarism. Dashnak Party
              tsutyun did the opposite. She made the position of Armenians her policy
              Turkey is even more unbearable. In revenge for the violence perpetrated
              volunteers, the Turkish peasantry cracked down on peaceful ar
              the Myan population and obediently carried out all the "tasks" of the Turkish
              government. (...]
              (A. Karinyan, On the Characterization of Armenian Nationalist Te
              chenius / / Bolshevik of the Caucasus. 1928. No. 9-10. S.65-66.)
            4. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 16
              0
              From an article by the Soviet Armenian historian A. Lalayan
              "The counter-revolutionary" Dashnaktsutyun "and the imperialists
              World War 1 9 1 4 - 1 9 1 8 ”.
              “Dashnaks showed maximum“ courage ”in extermination
              Turkish women and children, the elderly and the sick. ”
              The “voluntary” movement is characterized by the fact that the Dashnak
              detachments led by bloodthirsty hmbapets (Andranik Pasha, Amaz-
              EP and others) showed maximum “courage” in extermination
              Turkish women and children, the elderly and the sick. Occupied by Dashnak
              detachments Turkish villages were freed from living people and
              buried in ruins filled with disfigured victims.
              Thus, one of the outcomes of the Dashnak volunteer movement
              It consists in the destruction of tens of thousands of working Turks.


              (A. Lalayan, the counter-revolutionary “Dashnaktsutyun” and imperial
              The static war of 1914-1918 / / Revolutionary East. 1936. No. 2-3.
              S .92-93.)
            5. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 18
              0
              From the report of one Armenian authorized person
              “Activities of Armenian volunteer groups in time
              My Russo-Turkish war. "
              How the Armenian masses followed the volunteer
              movement?
              In government 43 circles, it was suggested that war could
              to happen no earlier than the spring of 1915, which means that there was a lot of time for
              in order to put things on a good foundation. However times events
              curled faster than could be expected, and the manager
              at the request of the government, the organ was forced to
              speed up the matter, so that strict selection of fighters was out of the question,
              within two to three weeks we had to deliver to the border of all
              our volunteers. During the volunteer movement, Armenian
              people showed general enthusiasm, thousands went to record
              old and young, healthy and sick, trained and untrained during
              good and bad, virtuous and unprincipled
              persons placed themselves at the disposal of the organizational body, from
              it was impossible to say. From the farthest corners of the globe, where
              the leg of the Armenian entered, even from New Bukhara and America, were
              Lena volunteers. The ignorant and educated - everyone was inspired
              with just one idea, everyone actually felt like they were going to break
              their centuries-old chains, and followed each other day and night, day and week
              the thresholds where the registration of volunteers was conducted were covered with fir trees. Prev
              lied, asked, sometimes threatened, even cried - while they sought for
              listing; how many touching paintings arose during this watch
              registrations that prove how much virtue lurks in
              to the depths of the Armenian people.
              (Archive of the Armenian branch of the Institute of Marxism-Leninism at
              Central Committee of the CPSU. F.4047. On. 1. D. 91. L. 1. Cit. by: KirakosyanJ. Western Armagh
              niya during the First World War. Yerevan: Yerevan Publishing House
              University, 1974. S. 201.)
            6. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 21
              0
              From the book of the Armenian writer Mnatsakanyan G.D. "Perm
              the solution of the Armenian question ”, published in 1 9 1 4
              “Armenians have to pay Europe everything that it wants
              to shine for Armenia as a benefit from the war. ”
              (...) Armenians need to have their own representation before inter
              International Areopagus. Representation is necessary and in order
              so that it can report to the representatives of Europe about the real
              the needs of the Armenian people and to clarify those territorial and economic
              The conditions that accompany these needs and are subject to
              to the higher areopagus. In addition, this office must
              be empowered enough by Turkish Armenians to European
              States were not misled on issues subject to
              their consideration, and were guaranteed that the Armenian people with
              deep gratitude will fulfill the obligation entrusted to him
              telation.
              European diplomacy will not honor every nation
              steal, for example, with Kurds, Karapakhs, Ingush, Gypsies; barely
              whether she would enter into negotiations on matters relating to these
              nationalities. So that she accepts a representative of some people
              a state that does not have its own state organism, it is necessary that
              if the latter would raise an international issue,
              and would be so numerous and politically moral that
              earn the attention of European public opinion and the state
              activists. The issue of Armenia is international in nature.
              ter, and the Armenians are a people so numerous that their role in this
              issue may be of international importance. Together with the sim, the Armenians
              showed Europe their ability and morality necessary for
              political organization. (...) European diplomacy recognized ar
              the Myanian people worthy of hearing him, and thus the Turkish
              Armenians though de jure have no representation before international
              areopagus, but de facto they repeatedly appeared in the person of their
              providers The Patriarch of Constantinople entered into negotiations with
              slams of European powers at the Turkish court. In 1878, Armenian delegates were received in Petrograd, London and Berlin by the Minister
              mi foreign affairs. At the Berlin Conference, representatives of the
              thanata and other powers entered into discussion of the application of constantino
              Polish patriarch. In 1894 and 95, representatives of Russia, England,
              France in the preparation of the memorandum negotiated with constant
              nopolsky patriarch. In 1912 and 13, the representative of the Catholicos
              and the supreme patriarch of all Armenians with the consent of the Petrograd Court,
              Poghos Pasha Nubar traveled around Europe and was adopted as imagine
              the Armenian people of Turkey in the ministries of foreign affairs and
              diplomatic envoys.
              Armenia is obliged to reimburse Europe and part of the costs that it
              carries to war with Turkey. Armenia, as territorially above it is about
              projected - how land wealth is worth more than military
              expenses incurred to conquer her, and Europe, having received her as for
              the conquered land, cannot cheaply give it to the Armenians. Armenians by
              Taking it, they must pay Europe and all that it wants to receive for
              Armenia as a benefit of the war. Armenians should not be parasites,
              and they will have their hard work and sweat and deprivation a hundredfold
              pay Europe.
              (Mnatsakanyan G.D. Resolution of the Armenian Question. M., 1914. P. 24-26,
              2 9 -3 0.)
            7. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 23
              +1
              Telegram of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Tsarist Russia
              Sazonova S.D. Girsu M.N., Russian Ambassador in Istanbul
              Tsarist Russia uses the Armenian and Kurdish trump cards one
              temporarily.
              Telegram No. 503
              1 7/4 44 March 1914
              How do you look at the Kurdish movement in Bitlis in connection with
              the phenomenon of Armenian reforms? Do you recognize as relevant so that
              we tried to influence the Kurds through being still here
              Abdurrezak, 45, who apparently has connections in Bitlis and Van?
              (International Relations in the Age of Imperialism / / Documents
              from the archives of the tsarist and provisional government of 1878-1917. Ser.Z.
              T.2. Moscow - Leningrad: State Social and Economic
              Publishing House, 1933. P.29.)
            8. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 24
              0
              From a letter from the head of the Kagizman district.
              “Among the Armenians in Turkey there is a secret organization for
              actions against the Turks in the rear. "
              4 1914 of August
              № 85
              Kagizman city
              Dear
              Sergey Aleksandrovich,
              (...)
              Among the Armenians in Turkey there is a secret organization that
              suggests in the event of a war between Turkey and Russia to organize special
              squads for action against the Turks in the rear; if it fails, then
              These squads are moving to Russia and are fighting along with the Russian howl
              skamy. (...)
              (RGVIA. F. 2100. On. 1. D. 528. L. 1,1 vol., 2, 2 vol.)
            9. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 26
              0
              Telegram to adviser of the III Political Department, referral
              Girsu M.N., ambassador to Istanbul
              “In case of war with Turkey, it was recognized as timely preparation
              to build an uprising of Armenians, Aisors and Kurds. ”
              Telegram No. 2851.
              2 3/1 September 0, 1914
              By agreement with the supreme commander and governor
              it was recognized by the Caucasus as timely to prepare an uprising of Armenians, Aisors and Kurds in case of war with Turkey. Gangs will be formed
              under the supervision of our consuls in Azerbaijan and the chiefs on
              shih detachments there, in complete secret from the Persian administration. Under
              prepared rifles, which, however, will be issued only at the right
              moment. There is also a loan for cash subsidies. To action
              gangs will be allowed only with our permission.
              Today, the Minister, referring to your telegram to Admiral Eberhard, 48
              telegraphed to the chief of staff of the commander in chief that after
              he considers the aggravation of the situation desirable, without losing time
              I’m not ready to start preparing the above measures, of course,
              leading up to rebellion.
              Klemm.
              (International Relations in the Age of Imperialism / / Documents from
              archives of the tsarist and interim government of 1878-1917. Ser.Z. T.6.
              4.1. Moscow - Leningrad: State Social and Economic
              Publishing House, 1935. S.282-283.)
            10. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 29
              0
              Analysis of the encrypted telegram of the Russian consul
              in Maka on October 2, 6 1 9 1
              “The goal is to drive the Turks out of Kurdistan together with the Armenians.”


              I am telegraphed to the Ministry.
              Abdurrezak with 500 armed Kurds invaded from Chaldaran
              to Turkey, gathering around him loyal Kurds. His goal is to
              together with the Armenians to expel the Turks from Kurdistan. Copy to Tehran.
              Olpherev.
              Understood: / signature /
              27th of October 1914
              (RGVIA. F.2100. Op.1. D. 517. L.17.)
            11. builder
              builder 14 December 2013 19: 56
              +2
              You need to write a separate article on this subject
  • Day 11
    Day 11 14 December 2013 19: 08
    0
    Alibek, hello. I have not heard you on the site for a long time. How do you feel about Fadl al Abbas? Here is an example of tolerance! I think that you do not need to explain anything. There are Shiites and Christians (Orthodox) and Sunnis
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 14 December 2013 19: 12
      +2
      Quote: Den 11
      Alibek, hello. I haven’t heard you on the site for a long time. How do you feel about Fadl al Abbas? Here is an example of tolerance! I think that explaining anything to you is unnecessary. Although mostly Shiites are there

      Hi Denis!
      I treat this movement with understanding and positively!
      The question is not that they are Shiites or Sunnis, the question is that I consider their fight to be fair!
      Shiites are not aliens, they are Muslims!
    2. alone
      alone 14 December 2013 19: 18
      +2
      Denis, what is this? If I am not mistaken, these are Shiites from Syria, Iraq, Iran and Lebanon, who created the Fadl al-Abbas brigade and are fighting on the side of Assad. There are several thousand of them there.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 14 December 2013 19: 41
        +1
        Omar, not only you have been listed, but also Orthodox Christians. And how do you feel about Hezbollah’s activities with Alibek? Your opinion is pure. They show miracles of heroism in battle! (Info 100% confirmed). You can talk normally with them (unlike from Hamas who need only butter)
        1. alone
          alone 14 December 2013 20: 08
          +2
          Denis! Hezbollah and al-Qaeda. This is one coin with two sides. One is Wahhabi-Kharijits, other Shiites. I will not speak praises about Hezbollah just because they are Shiites. Things should be called by their proper names.
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 14 December 2013 20: 15
            0
            Omar, I won’t argue with you, you’re much better at it. I’m trying to figure it out. Come on through the PM
          2. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 December 2013 21: 10
            0
            I completely agree with the Lonely!
            Hezbollah is a large terrorist organization!
            In our Republic they have committed many crimes!
            The murder of the academician and Hero of the USSR in the Second World War, the commander of the fine, Zia Buniyatov, is also their business!
  • Black
    Black 14 December 2013 13: 06
    +3
    The great and mighty Kurdistan (IMHO) will remain the age-old dream of the Kurds.
    At present, no one really needs such a neoplasm.
    We "muddied" with them, the Americans treat us with promises, the Jews ... We all have the same goal - instability in the region, to pour salt on an unhealed place.
    The staplers went the farthest and made of this wound a growing ulcer - and the Turks, which are becoming more and more powerful - a piston, and Iran is not sweet, and it’s easy to reach us. The dream of arsonists of instability and war.
    Nobody from the region, including Israel, needs such a neoplasm, for a young and growing organism will begin to be pushed with its elbows.
  • knn54
    knn54 14 December 2013 13: 35
    +3
    Without interest and impressive support from outside, it is practically impossible to form an "Independent Kurdistan", or at least to achieve autonomy status at the first stage, as in Iraq with the help of the United States and the forces of the anti-Saddam coalition. From there, Great Kurdistan will begin - with the approval of the United States. Great Kurdistan means the split of the entire Middle East and the weakening of those states that Washington wants to destroy or weaken - Syria, Iran, Iraq. Yes, and Turkey's neo-Ottomanism is not to the White House's liking ... There should be one strong in the world, the rest - weak. This is the "highlight" of the Yankes geopolitics.
    PS Israel (Mossad) has long used the Kurds ("Free Life Party" -PJAK), whose militants are engaged in terrorist attacks and armed attacks on units in Iran. On their account there are ALREADY more than a hundred Iranian military personnel, including many officers of the IRGC.
    PP.S WHILE for Russia it is much more important to maintain friendly relations with Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria, rather than with Kurdish movements and organizations. It does not have the political and material resources to support the main organizations of the Kurdish national movement. And it will not be possible to form stable relations with Iraqi Kurdistan, where the Kurds (after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein) became devoted partners of the United States and Great Britain. At the same time, maintaining relations with the Kurds, control over Kurdish groups in Russia is important for the future. And when, Russia will get stronger and solve its military-political problems, it will be possible to put pressure on Turkey or Iran, as well as on the USA (in the Middle East).
  • individual
    individual 14 December 2013 14: 36
    +3
    Independent Kurdistan, and why not if Israel was created through an international decision, like a splinter in the body of Arabs.
    Information:
    "The creation of the State of Israel is a political process that began with the emergence of the political Zionist movement in 1897 and ended after the proclamation of the Declaration of Independence on May 14, 1948, with the victory in the War of Independence and acceptance by the UN by mid-1949."
    A similar decision will be made on Kurdistan after a series of national liberation "actions" in Syria, Turkey, Iraq and the carte blanche of the Arab world in the hands of the US rulers.
    Israel, as stated above, is not opposed at all - another splinter in the body of the Arabs, since the Kurds are not Turks and Arabs, but a separate ethnic group of the Indo-European group.
  • shpuntik
    shpuntik 14 December 2013 15: 43
    +2
    It did not work out right away to destroy Syria with the hands of “secular” gangs and Islamists; you can use the “Kurdish map”. The Kurdish factor is a very powerful trump card with which you can continue to stir up water in the region.

    As long as the Washington Regional Committee and the British Crown exist, wars will continue. After the formation of Kurdistan, the parties "Greater Turkey", "United Syria" and the like will appear.
    Therefore, to terminate the activities of these Satanists, a trial is necessary like the Nyurberg Tribunal, where the sponsors of Adolf Hitler, Leiba-Trotsky, Blank-Lenin and similar "comrades" would appear on the dock. These are the leaders of the largest corporations, and that is why it is hardly possible. Unfortunately...
    PS

    "5. And, raising Him to a high mountain, the devil showed him all the kingdoms of the universe in a moment of time,
    6. And the devil said to him: I will give you power over all these kingdoms and their glory, for it is devoted to me, and I, to whom I want, give it;
    7. so, if You bow to me, then everything will be Yours.

    8. Jesus answered and said to him: Get away from Me, Satan; it is written: Worship the Lord thy God, and serve Him alone. "
    From Luke's holy gospel
    CHAPTER 4.
    http://days.pravoslavie.ru/Bible/B_lk4.htm
  • RUSS
    RUSS 14 December 2013 15: 50
    +3
    Quote: Rusich51
    Quote: xetai9977
    Carlson, you can think of any people whatever you want, but only to yourself. And publicly calling to "kill" anyone is an offense that falls under the criminal code.

    They began to fight the Turks after the accession of the Romanovs. And before that, they always seemed to get along. Maybe wrong?

    You are wrong, read the article published recently on the forum 13.12.13/XNUMX/XNUMX "Forbidden Victory", where you will discover historical events for yourself, about the war with the Turks during the reign of Ivan the Terrible (Rurikovich).
  • Jan Radium
    Jan Radium 14 December 2013 16: 36
    +3
    Kurds are a great nation deserving of a sovereign state. They are the only people in Asia Minor who still resist Jewish assimilation. In ancient times, the Kurdish tribes played a huge role in the spread of true Christianity in Asia Minor.
  • Black
    Black 14 December 2013 17: 29
    +2
    Quote: Yan Radiy
    Kurds are a great nation deserving of a sovereign state.

    With all due respect ...
    And which people are not great ??? !!! Everyone in his own way is good and inimitable !!!!
    And you, if the representative of the people, the representative of the Great People.
    Another thing is that we generally invest in the concept of the GREAT PEOPLE ...
    Maybe I’m wrong, but the Great can be called a people who could (or can) change the fate of civilization ...
    - Slavs (and then not all, but bishch- RUSSIAN !!!)
    Anglo-Saxons
    -Chinese

    There were other times when there were others Great ... Kurds were not there.
  • RUSS
    RUSS 14 December 2013 17: 38
    +2
    Quote: xetai9977
    So Russia has not changed since the time of Alexander the 3rd, and advanced countries have gone far ahead.


    I do not consider the civilization of Western Europe to have gone far ahead, a hackneyed phrase, but now in Europe the beginning of the end, this process will be long but inevitable. And the fact that Russia has few so-called friend countries, "an old friend is better than two new ones." And on the issue of friendship, especially with the "progressive West", Ukraine can show the best at the moment.
  • unknown
    unknown 14 December 2013 18: 09
    +4
    Unlike other peoples inhabiting this region, Kurds are primordial, not newcomers.
    Of course, more than a century has passed since the iconoclastic conquest, which eventually led to the creation of the Port of the Shining (not Portugal). But this does not mean that the Kurds do not have the right to create their own national state.
    On the contrary, it is the Kurdish state that will be the only legitimate one, unlike Turkey, Israel, Syria and other artificial states
  • morpogr
    morpogr 14 December 2013 18: 28
    0
    The Kurds still have a hidden trump card for the time being, and then at the right time this option with Kurdistan will play the question only who?
  • Megatron
    Megatron 14 December 2013 19: 32
    +3
    A cuckoo praises a rooster for praising a cuckoo. The topic is one Azerbaijani lobby, which licks Turkey’s backside, plus stars for themselves all over lads, and they are satisfied.
    1. alone
      alone 14 December 2013 19: 46
      -2
      And on the topic there is nothing to say? The citizens of the country, which is a federation, wish to destroy another country by fomenting separatism only because 100 years ago the empires (Russia and the Ottomans) fought each other))
      Want to dig a hole for Turkey? dig. but do not forget one thing.

      when you start digging a hole, make it wide and shallow, it often happens that someone digging a hole for another gets there himself. This is a FACT that has been confirmed by history.
    2. xetai9977
      xetai9977 14 December 2013 22: 59
      -2
      Licking is done by those who, even to the detriment of their country, are ready to continue to sponsor the Armenian aggressors not only with free deliveries of weapons, but also with transfers of billions of dollars annually to the Armenian treasury
    3. Sandov
      Sandov 15 December 2013 12: 58
      +1
      Quote: Megatron
      A cuckoo praises a rooster for praising a cuckoo. The topic is one Azerbaijani lobby, which licks Turkey’s backside, plus stars for themselves all over lads, and they are satisfied.

      Yes, Azerbaijanis got into a fuss. Even Alibek is so calm and cold-blooded, sorry, the whole site scored an info.
  • Leshka
    Leshka 14 December 2013 19: 34
    0
    Kurds are not interesting to me in the world of other problems missing
  • Makinskaya
    Makinskaya 14 December 2013 19: 41
    +2
    Quote: xetai9977
    Carlson, you can think of any people anything, but only to yourself. And publicly urge & auot; water & auot; anyone is an offense falling under the criminal code.

    Well said,Khatai
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 14 December 2013 19: 49
      0
      Zdrasssste.Azerbaijani girls here haven’t seemed to be noticed. To help their men? Well, worthy ...
      1. alone
        alone 14 December 2013 20: 59
        +1
        Quote: Den 11
        Zdrasssste.Azerbaijani girls here haven’t seemed to be noticed. To help their men? Well, worthy ...




        laughing Well, if she came, I think she’ll leave soon. It’s not a woman’s business to read what the military people are talking about. Yes, and any mat is not for women's ears.
        a woman should command her kitchen. There her tactics, strategy and breakthrough in the heart of her beloved husband)) to fight is not a woman’s business.
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 14 December 2013 21: 16
        +1
        Quote: Den 11
        Zdrasssste.Azerbaijani girls here still seem to have not been seen. To help their men? Well, worthy ..

        Denis You forgot Camilla, by the way she was from the kind of Karabakh khans!
        We say -Aslanin Yerkeyei Dishisi olmaz !!! in a free translation-Lions are not divided into males and females)))
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 14 December 2013 21: 40
          +1
          Alibek, let’s put politics aside. You are defending your position — do not bow down! It’s my personal attitude to life. You and I understood each other and this is important! Let the politicians clear it out (although the task of the GDP is frankly complex). The main thing is that we wouldn’t shoot at each other (and I’m probably unable to shoot at my friend in your army). I’m trying to recreate this in the brain (war) --- NO !!! Against other vrazhin without options
          1. alone
            alone 14 December 2013 21: 46
            +2
            we don’t need to fight against each other. This would be the biggest mistake of both Russia and Azerbaijan. am
        2. Makinskaya
          Makinskaya 15 December 2013 02: 46
          +2
          Yarbay, spasibo vam. Den 11, a vas pust ne smushayet moye prisutstviye, ya zdes ne na dolqo. vi, vashi jenshini vidyat tolko koqda prinosyat qostinzi svoim bratyam i mujyam v armiyu, a mi videm ix kajdiy den.I kak virazilsya ubajayemiy Yarbay, Lions are not divided into males and females. Xetai9977, ya znayu, cto vi perejivayete za to, cto ya prochitayu, cto-libo ne dostoynoye.Qodi raboti na televidenii nauchili menya avtomaticheski udalyat nenujnuyu yitomit yyitovitomit yyutyöyit yöyitya yöyit yöyitya yöyitya yöyitya yöyitya yöyit Turket vnimaniye ne kurdov !!!), kotoriye projivali na teritorii Zapadnoqo Azerbaycana.
        3. RUSS
          RUSS 15 December 2013 09: 56
          +1
          Turn your booth, a lot of azerbaijani spam.
      3. Sandov
        Sandov 15 December 2013 13: 03
        0
        Quote: Den 11
        Zdrasssste.Azerbaijani girls here haven’t seemed to be noticed. To help their men? Well, worthy ...

        It's nice that without a burqa. Lonely don't be lonely. Why should they kick the girl out? They will at least slow you down a little in bends.
        1. alone
          alone 15 December 2013 13: 14
          +1
          Quote: Sandov
          It's nice that without a burqa. Lonely don't be lonely. Why should they kick the girl out? They will at least slow you down a little in bends.


          but why should she read any nonsense and obscenities of some members of the forum? This is not for women's ears. But to solve it all the same to her. I only warned her))
    2. xetai9977
      xetai9977 14 December 2013 23: 10
      +2
      Madame Makinskaya, my fellow countrywoman, is from the capital of the Turkic Erivan Khanate. I adore her act. I would not want beautiful female eyes to read sometimes vulgar expressions, but it’s up to her to decide.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. xetai9977
        xetai9977 15 December 2013 12: 48
        0
        The lady generously allowed to announce that she is the great-granddaughter of the Iravan Khan. And every native of Western Azerbaijan with every fiber of his soul is a true patriot or a patriot, be it a woman or a man, no difference, because they remember the times when they were the masters of the land, now called "Armenia", and know firsthand what they really represent from myself hai.
      3. Sandov
        Sandov 15 December 2013 13: 07
        0
        Quote: xetai9977
        Madame Makinskaya, my fellow countrywoman, is from the capital of the Turkic Erivan Khanate. I adore her act. I would not want beautiful female eyes to read sometimes vulgar expressions, but it’s up to her to decide.

        In Cyrillic, advise her to write on our website. It's unclear.
        1. xetai9977
          xetai9977 15 December 2013 13: 51
          -2
          She knows and writes in Russian more literally than most users with Russian flags. The matter is apparently in the keyboard .. However, those who want to understand, will understand.
        2. The comment was deleted.
  • Shur
    Shur 14 December 2013 23: 25
    +1
    Quote: xasharat
    If you are not in the know, the European Parliament answered that the southern stream is not profitable. From this, conclude that the pipe will be filled with Iranian gas and oil.

    According to reports of the Eurogians, they officially dispute the compliance of the South Stream project with the 3rd energy package.
  • family tree
    family tree 15 December 2013 01: 49
    +3
    And the first were the British. They came to India and stayed there for a long time, and when they left, it suddenly turned out that they left immediately from India and Pakistan, which are now on knives. Then the technologies were developed, at least in the same Yugoslavia and Libya. They will make Kurdistan, another player will appear and in the region there will be not only Shiite-Sunni massacre, but also Kurdish-Turkish, Kurdish-Iraqi, not to mention the rest. For this case, you will need a lot of knives, and the same SyShyA will successfully manufacture and sell them, then one, then another, where obviously, where through the dummies, sometimes intervening and equalizing the balance of power, so that no one wins. In general, I do not expect anything good, Kurdistan is far from the United States, but not far from Russia. You won’t get warm at this fire, if only you burn No.
  • Makinskaya
    Makinskaya 15 December 2013 02: 26
    +2
    Quote: Den 11
    Zdrasssste.Azerbaijani girls here haven’t seemed to be noticed. To help their men? Well, worthy ...

    Blaqodaru Den11 Azerbaycan vseqda zanyat dostoynimi delami.
  • motorized rifle
    motorized rifle 15 December 2013 05: 21
    +3
    Well, finally I realized, TURAN! Dream! Pan-Turkism, what else is Pan-Slavism (or Slavism?), Pan-Germanism, the main thing is not panidiotism! Are you seriously? About Turan? Here, as it used to be, a Kazakh argued with an Uzbek (both of them are Türks, are they?) Which of them is a bigger horseman. To insults came, and quite rude. Then I thought, well, they swear in Russian! And you are going to build Turan! Here work for 50 years if not more! And the main danger is not that the US or the Russian Federation will interfere, but as O * Henry wrote, they say there is a crack in each trust at its foundation. Do you really believe that there will be no tugging of the blanket about who is the most correct Turk among the Turks, the most important option? Which of the Turkic languages ​​will be common again really Russian? Well, honestly, I’m asking without sarcasm. I have enough acquaintances among Azerbaijanis, but I didn’t come to Kiev for a long time, the Minister of Trade, in my opinion, met privately in my friend’s house, he has an Azerbaijani son-in-law, and he provided the area, so to speak. So what I am getting at is that I didn’t notice a tendency to create Turan among them, though these are ordinary traders but still. Again, you cannot do without a leader, who will he be? Turkey, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan? But what about the rest smaller, because the elites do not really like the second roles, even if it is contrary to the interests of the people. In my opinion, people are always the same everywhere and always in fraternal relations, suddenly there are older and younger brothers. How can such simple questions be resolved in the context of the disequilibrium development of states trying to create a union? What will be the common denominator except for Turkic origin? Ideally, of course, it will not work, but in addition to the spell of the peoples, in order to induce them to build such a union, it is necessary to take into account the economy, etc.

    On the subject of genocides, that these confessions are always, and even with criminal liability for their denial, cause suspicion of their existence.

    Well, Alaverdi, thank you, dear residents of the Caucasus, Transcaucasia and Asia, for being Russian, after so many years we began to remember that we are RUSSIAN, that we are the imperial people and that you are weaning us from the Russian saying that good with fists do not exist. Maybe Ilyin was right when he said that you cannot be a patriot and at the same time not be a nationalist. That's just curious how you will like us as such.
    Z.Y. It seems he wrote neatly, tried not to offend anyone, If somewhere he pierced, do not judge me, the academies did not finish)))
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. xetai9977
      xetai9977 15 December 2013 13: 04
      -2
      There is no problem for the Turkic peoples - who is the main one ... Enough for us is that next to us is our brother’s shoulder and breath.
      1. Sandov
        Sandov 15 December 2013 14: 45
        +3
        I am proud that I am Russian. Which of that?
        1. Megatron
          Megatron 15 December 2013 19: 34
          0
          Pay attention to the difference in the pictures.
          Rusichi - against the backdrop of their native nature, in a creative movement.
          The Türks - on horseback, with weapons, during the next aggressive campaign.
          1. Clegg
            Clegg 15 December 2013 19: 46
            -3
            Quote: Megatron
            Rusichi - against the backdrop of their native nature, in a creative movement.
            The Türks - on horseback, with weapons, during the next aggressive campaign.

            These are just pictures, in fact we were under your occupation.
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 15 December 2013 20: 05
              +1
              Occupation ??? belay In my opinion, they lived according to the same general rules and laws. Your compatriots were also in the leadership of the state!
              1. Clegg
                Clegg 15 December 2013 20: 43
                0
                Den11

                and write normally?
                Quote: Megatron
                The Türks - on horseback, with weapons, during the next aggressive campaign.
                1. Day 11
                  Day 11 15 December 2013 21: 02
                  +2
                  People are different. Everyone has their own opinion. In some ways he is probably right, in any case we have such an opinion. BUT, it was a very long time ago, but under the EMPIRE we lived as one people! I will tell you my story (never I didn’t write this, but today I have a desire). I entered the military school in 1991 (Minsk). Literally a couple of days after arriving at the school, the following story happened to me: there was a queue in the canteen for distribution. It’s my turn, a non-Russian boy gets in without a queue and gaining himself. My nerves explode -... In short, I broke into him (I then arrived all "spring-loaded" - the whole school was engaged in Jud-Do). In a couple of hours, two come to my barracks-Let's talk. the corridor came out, I look there are three more. Okay, I say, I'll go out now, and go to the guys, help me ... And what do you think? Fuck on the collar. Send some left-wing excuses. Who stuck in and shot me "Azerbaijani! And these were from Turkmenistan, with whom I later had excellent relations. With Serdar until now on Skype. Why am I? And to the fact that people and you must always be
              2. alone
                alone 15 December 2013 20: 50
                +1
                Quote: Den 11
                There was a Great Empire Country !,

                Denis, can you give one example of some sort of empire that was created without aggressive campaigns and occupation of foreign territories? wink
                1. Day 11
                  Day 11 15 December 2013 21: 16
                  +1
                  Probably not. But the world is divided into strong and weak, rich and poor, healthy and sick ... Such is life.
                  1. Clegg
                    Clegg 15 December 2013 21: 19
                    0
                    Quote: Den 11
                    Probably not. But the world is divided into strong and weak, rich and poor, healthy and sick ... Such is life.

                    Of course, but do not be offended by the term occupation. I am writing as is
            2. Megatron
              Megatron 15 December 2013 21: 03
              -3
              This is the picture that the Turk himself gives.

              Don't fucking talk about the occupation. Who else but Kazakhs prayed to the Russian "White Tsar" to take them under their wing, otherwise the Dzungars would have slaughtered you long ago.
              Yes, and now, only the Russians are gone - China is slowly taking over the whole of Kazakhstan. You even surrendered the border, earlier in the days of the USSR, all the border guards in Kazakhstan were sitting on the hills, and any movement from that side was seen, right now, the Kazakh brothers, for the money, of course, the border was more convenient for the Chinese to move.
              Now the Chinese can see everything, and what they have - not a damn thing. And everything is in the same vein. I say all this with full confidence, I myself was born in Alma-Ata, although I have not lived there for almost 20 years, but my uncle remained there, a retired KNB colonel, he regularly informs me. Soon, your supreme bai will no longer be, and the amba, as in Kyrgyzstan the massacre will begin, and there the Salafis, who seem to be crushed, will raise their heads. You will remember the Soviet "occupation" as a paradise, when everyone drowns in blood. You will appeal to Russia in pleading for help. So do not la-la here, about the "occupation" "!
              1. Clegg
                Clegg 15 December 2013 21: 12
                0
                Quote: Megatron
                About the occupation, do not go crazy.

                I’ll be fucked up, I forgot to ask you

                Quote: Megatron
                Soon the bail of your supreme will not be, and amba, as in Kyrgyzstan the massacre will begin,

                You are naive? The FSB did a good job there.
                1. Megatron
                  Megatron 15 December 2013 21: 25
                  -1
                  Well, well, agrotrol, in fact there is nothing to say.
                  1. Clegg
                    Clegg 15 December 2013 21: 28
                    +1
                    Quote: Megatron
                    Well, well, agrotrol, in fact there is nothing to say.

                    fact about what? lol
                    1. Megatron
                      Megatron 15 December 2013 21: 43
                      0
                      About the "occupation" of Kazakhstan by Russia.
                      1. Clegg
                        Clegg 15 December 2013 21: 50
                        -1
                        Quote: Megatron
                        About the "occupation" of Kazakhstan by Russia.

                        What was it then?
                      2. Megatron
                        Megatron 15 December 2013 22: 10
                        0
                        They are not offended by fools.
                      3. Clegg
                        Clegg 15 December 2013 22: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Megatron
                        They are not offended by fools.

                        Read my comment above addressed to Dan, maybe there you will find yourself)))))
  • Sandov
    Sandov 15 December 2013 13: 11
    0
    Quote: motorized infantryman
    Well, finally I realized, TURAN! Dream! Pan-Turkism, what else is Pan-Slavism (or Slavism?), Pan-Germanism, the main thing is not panidiotism! Are you seriously? About Turan? Here, as it used to be, the Kazakh argued with the Uzbek (both of them are Türks?), Which of them is a bigger horseman. To insults came, and quite rude.

    That's what saddens, the Yankees want blood for joy.
  • Megatron
    Megatron 15 December 2013 10: 21
    +2
    We will become satisfied when Turan is created

    Your kaganate was a thousand years ago and existed for only 40 years, and since then it has never been.
    So leave your dreams, this is from the "bring back Alaska" series. ))))
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 15 December 2013 11: 46
      0
      Vasily Are you a neophyte?
    2. Sandov
      Sandov 15 December 2013 13: 15
      +2
      Quote: IslamMoyReligion
      Yes, you will please horseradish, then Caucasians and chocks prevent you from living, Islam is fooling you on the Red Square, and when you begin to unite, we begin to unite again! You are only happy when you decide for us with whom we are friends and with whom not!


      Everything will be fine when you yourself will be more adequate. When you fight the Wahhabis. Then all faiths will respect Islam.
      1. alone
        alone 15 December 2013 13: 22
        0
        Quote: Sandov
        Everything will be fine when you yourself will be more adequate. When you fight the Wahhabis. Then all faiths will respect Islam.


        Maybe you are fighting Wahhabis in Syria, in Yemen, in Azerbaijan, in Kazakhstan? Enough of building here fighters with Wahhabis. Muslims fight and die Wahhabis mainly Muslims themselves.

        You better think about why there are almost 1 million Wahhabis in Russia. Well, and where is your struggle against the spread of this infection?
        1. Sandov
          Sandov 15 December 2013 14: 37
          +1
          Quote: lonely
          You better think about why there are almost 1 million Wahhabis in Russia. Well, and where is your struggle against the spread of this infection?


          Muslims should think about this first, and the Russians will help you.
          1. alone
            alone 15 December 2013 19: 16
            0
            Do you propose to arm yourself and go to Russia to destroy 1 million Wahhabis who are Russian citizens? Or maybe you yourself start, and the rest of the Muslims from other countries will help you with this? what and this can already be considered aggression against Russia. Or am I mistaken?
  • FormerMariman
    FormerMariman 15 December 2013 11: 52
    +2
    A bad example of "getting into other people's business" is contagious! We will pay off for this soon, Russia should not step on someone else's rake.
  • FormerMariman
    FormerMariman 15 December 2013 16: 44
    0
    Quote: Sandov
    Quote: IslamMoyReligion
    Yes, you will please horseradish, then Caucasians and chocks prevent you from living, Islam is fooling you on the Red Square, and when you begin to unite, we begin to unite again! You are only happy when you decide for us with whom we are friends and with whom not!


    Everything will be fine when you yourself will be more adequate. When you fight the Wahhabis. Then all faiths will respect Islam.

    Is this an ultimatum?
    1. Sandov
      Sandov 15 December 2013 20: 12
      0
      Quote: Former Mariman
      Is this an ultimatum?

      In no case. This is a call to work together.
  • unknown
    unknown 15 December 2013 19: 10
    +1
    In fact, the original Islam is the iconoclastic heresy of Orthodoxy.
    Issa is Jesus, and Lama is the teaching, that is, the teaching of Jesus

    The enmity of Islam and Orthodoxy is an artificial enmity, fueled by Western Protestants since the time of the Great Troubles, and the ensuing succession of Russian-Turkish wars.


    But I was especially amused by the comment that Indians and Pakistanis in Britain today are taking away what was taken from their ancestors in the past.

    Let it be known to you that after the collapse of the British Empire, an audit was conducted that, with all its impartiality, showed that the Great Colonial Empire was, from an economic point of view, a completely unprofitable enterprise.
  • Hitrovan07
    Hitrovan07 15 December 2013 22: 46
    -1
    There are many opinions, but all as children. We see only the tip of the iceberg.
  • Makinskaya
    Makinskaya 16 December 2013 03: 44
    +2
    Quote: xasharat
    Quote: RUSS
    Have you put up with us?

    They divided my country into 2 parts and created between them in the Yerevan Khanate, the so-called Khay so-called country. Thank you for that?
    Arranged Karabakh, thanks for that?
    3 times my people were deported from their lands, thank me for that?
    Moreover, you are defending terrorists and the murderers' children, thank me for that?

    to all this

    Just that, insulting us then descended from the mountains. Although we have a plain, you insult us by bringing down your villages, not knowing that we had no villages since our family, the parsley damn knows that, forgetting that one of the construction giants of Russia belongs to Azerbaijanis, one of the major oil companies, belongs to Azerbaijanis, one of the largest shopping centers belongs to Azerbaijanis, they forgot so many of your oil and gas fields were also discovered by Azerbaijanis. I am silent about my contribution to the Second World War ... SHEEP MASTER, THIS IS YOUR THANKS TO MY PEOPLE?

    Quote: RUSS
    That is, we are the colonial usurpers and aggressors for you?

    Since the 88th year, it is. Given your behavior towards Azerbaijanis, there is a response. In Azerbaijan All that you see from Azerbaijan and Azerbaijanis at the state level is the fruits of your actions. Starting from a landmark ending to my posts.

    Quote: RUSS
    Although it is a little surprising from the Kazakhs to hear this.


    Did you just wake up? A full-scale campaign has already begun against Russia and the Russians. You will soon hear this from the Uzbeks and the Kirghiz and all. I didn’t just say that, wake up. Your policy, your insults, your views, will not bring anything good. Offending others, you will not raise your own worth. You are doing everything for the Turks to unite. All that you see, I repeat, is your merit. Want to see what Kazakhs write? Read. This is just a drop. If a woman writes this, think about what a Kazakh man will do. Everything goes to the fact that the Turks are united. Any conversation, any disassembly, if I find out that Kazakh or Uzbek or Gagauz, one of the Turks will not even be right, I forgive. These are my brothers. We have one blood.

    Before answering me, remember how they wrote here, we must help, brothers, Armenians, they are Slavs, they are Christians, and so on, remember?

    and now we, the Turks !!!!




    Mashaallah
  • FormerMariman
    FormerMariman 16 December 2013 22: 15
    0
    Quote: Megatron
    This is the picture that the Turk himself gives.

    Don't fucking talk about the occupation. Who else but Kazakhs prayed to the Russian "White Tsar" to take them under their wing, otherwise the Dzungars would have slaughtered you long ago.
    Yes, and now, only the Russians are gone - China is slowly taking over the whole of Kazakhstan. You even surrendered the border, earlier in the days of the USSR, all the border guards in Kazakhstan were sitting on the hills, and any movement from that side was seen, right now, the Kazakh brothers, for the money, of course, the border was more convenient for the Chinese to move.
    Now the Chinese can see everything, and what they have - not a damn thing. And everything is in the same vein. I say all this with full confidence, I myself was born in Alma-Ata, although I have not lived there for almost 20 years, but my uncle remained there, a retired KNB colonel, he regularly informs me. Soon, your supreme bai will no longer be, and the amba, as in Kyrgyzstan the massacre will begin, and there the Salafis, who seem to be crushed, will raise their heads. You will remember the Soviet "occupation" as a paradise, when everyone drowns in blood. You will appeal to Russia in pleading for help. So do not la-la here, about the "occupation" "!

    One more clown!
  • Makinskaya
    Makinskaya 17 December 2013 17: 41
    0
    Quote: xasharat
    Quote: motorized infantryman
    Well, finally I realized, TURAN! Dream!

    Stories tend to repeat themselves. The process is already underway. Among the citizens to the fullest, at the state level, remember the meetings? Turkic union? Yes, it takes time, be sure this day will come. It's just around the corner. I don’t know what kind of Uzbek and Kazakh you are talking about, but be sure, when in the network, I noticed more than once, there are "showdowns" when you say we are brothers of the Turks, the topic is immediately closed. It says a lot. The Turks are uniting. God grant that soon.

    All true.