Military Review

US industrial records during the Second World War

258



American folk hero name is John Henry. Hefty Negro that worked on the laying of a railway tunnel in Virginia. Once a black "Stakhanovite" decided to compete in productivity with a steam hammer, ahead of the car, but eventually died from exhaustion. The legend of John Henry will be the best illustration of the further events of this story.

Plant at the farm site

28 March 1941, workers began digging pits and uprooting trees in Willow Run, 30 miles from Detroit. October 1 1941, the first four-engined Liberator bomber, rolled out of the gates of the assembly shop of the Willow Run plant.

Built in record time, Willow Run has become the world's largest enterprise. aviation industry - 330000 sq. m. meters of workshops, 42000 jobs, the main assembly line with a length of 1,5 kilometers, its own airfield and all the necessary infrastructure, including residential quarters and shopping malls for employees. The design of the giant complex was entrusted to Albert Kahn, a world-renowned industrial architect, whose masterpieces by then were Tankograd, GAZ, and the Kharkov Locomotive Plant. And this time, Kahn did not disappoint - the Willow Run supermarket was built to meet all customer requirements - Ford Motor Co.

In the midst of production, the main assembly line was turning sharply 90 degrees: a special camp deployed an almost assembled bomber in the right direction, and the workers continued to work again. The strange L-shaped shop had a simple explanation: the plant was designed not to enter the territory of the neighboring region (county), where the land tax was higher. Capitalist Ford counted every cent.

US industrial records during the Second World War


Even before the start of the war, Ford received a lucrative contract for the production of strategic bombers - and now he “broke away” in full, engaged in assembling a cheaper version of Flying Fortresses using automotive technology. Not paying attention to the caustic jokes “Will it wound?” (“Will it work?”) And regular complaints from the army on the fighting qualities of the B-24, which, other things being equal, was inferior to “Flying Fortress” in a number of important parameters (primarily - security), Ford continued to drive steel avalanche of military equipment.

The whole technological process was calculated to the minute. Traditional jokes in the style of Henry Ford were used, deftly ridiculed by C. Chaplin in the film “New Times”: the Chinese were specially put next to the Italian, the German with the French. At the workplace it was forbidden to talk, sing, eat, whistle and generally be distracted by any extraneous things.

Every 63 minutes, a brand new B-24 rolled out of the gates of the assembly shop. At the peak of production, Willow Run switched to round-the-clock operation and assembled over 600 bombers a month.



In one of the hangars, the enterprises were 1300 army beds, on which pilots and navigators dozed in anticipation of their future aircraft. Having received the car and documents, a short overflight was made with checking the main systems - a circle above the airfield, opening / closing of the bomb bay flaps, machine-gun turrets left-right, radio station checking. Good for you! And the plane was hiding in the clouds, going to his place of service.

There were not enough working hands, and Ford had to break one of its main rules - to hire women. Already from the first days there was a problem: the ladies staged a strike, refusing to live in the same hostel next to men. Ford's face twisted into a grimace of rage, but there was nothing to be done - we had to build several additional houses. In general, the problem of housing was extremely acute: the staff of Willow Run, who came from all over the country, rented all the houses and rooms within a radius of ten miles. By June 1943, a new settlement had grown up near the plant - 15 apartment buildings for 1900 families + 2,5 thousand trailers and temporary plywood structures. The number of houses continuously increased - by the end of the war 15 thousand people already lived in the village. However, housing alone was not enough - one day the employees staged another strike, demanding to build a shopping complex in the village: they no longer intend to go to the neighboring city. And this time the requirement was met.

Events at the Willow Run factory became legendary, becoming the embodiment of American military life.

The road to the North. Bulldozers instead of bullets

In the winter of 1933 of the year, the traveler and conqueror of the north, Clyde Williams, took this route on a dog sled. However, the project of the motorway to Alaska initially did not meet with support among the leadership of the United States and Canada. The complexity is too high and the costs of creating such a structure are too high with the futility of its operation in the sparsely populated territories of the Far North.

Everything changed overnight in December 7 1941: the threat of the landing of Japanese troops in the Aleutian Islands and the conduct of hostilities in Alaska demanded that these territories be immediately linked to the main part of the United States. The ALSIB (Alaska-Siberia) command, a network of military airfields in Alaska and the Yukon, through which lend-lease goods flowed into the Soviet Union, pinned great hopes on the future road. We had to hurry ...

The northernmost of Canadian roads reached Dawson Creek. The local road in Alaska dropped off at 150 km south of Fairbanks (a place known as the Delta Crossroads). Between them lay 2700 km of cold taiga.

At dawn, 8 March, 1942, the engineering corps of the US Army began to break through the frosty mist and crackling from the cold spruce. Hundreds of units of road-building equipment and trucks with building materials and fuel moved forward.



Work began immediately on four sections of the future route: on the site to the south-east of the Delta junction. In the area of ​​Fort Nelson - where the advanced group of builders, materials and equipment was delivered to the frozen marshes. And also to both sides of the Whitehorse Key Point, where the route of the future route was 300 km off the coast of the Pacific Ocean. It was convenient to deliver the cargo by sea and then transport it by local narrow gauge railway (port of Skagway-Whitehorse).

2700 km of roadway, 5 mountain passes, 133 bridge. Wildly sparsely populated area, cold and permafrost. Despite the obvious difficulties, the construction of the “Alaska Highway” took less than eight months - the last section was opened on October 28 on the 1942 of the year.



However, as of October 1942, the “highway” didn’t match its loud name very much. Hellish primer, which suffered from scree and a layer of permafrost, which threatened to slacken and collapse under the wheels of cars at any second - for this reason, part of the route became unusable in the spring of next year.

During 1943, the Alaskan Highway was put in order - a section of the 160 km long road that ran across frozen ground was replaced by hot (log road), pontoon bridges were replaced with timber and steel structures, crumbling hill slopes were improved, the roadway quality was improved - only after that the route became relatively safe and accessible to ordinary vehicles.


Alaska Highway these days

Six months after the end of the war, the Alaskan Highway became the property of the Canadian government. The road received a new kilometer markup and gradually, over the course of 20 years, it gained asphalt concrete pavement. To date, many sections are straightened and laid along previously considered impassable places - as a result, the length of the modern route has been reduced to 2232 km. The “Alaskan highway”, as before, continues to fulfill its transport function and amaze travelers with the harsh beauty of these northern places.

Kaiser's Promise

“Mr. Kaiser, what do you need here,” said the well-known tycoon in the White House administration, “your company won all the lucrative tenders for the construction of bulk carriers and tank landing ships.” What else do you want?

But Kaiser stubbornly insisted on meeting presidential advisers.

- I can build 50 aircraft carriers in one year!

“Mr. Kaiser, you don't joke with such things.” What did they say to you in the Maritime Commission?

- They doubt - I have seven shipyards loaded with Liberty transports. According to the established schedule, I have to deliver three ready-made vessels every day. But our capacities are not exhausted - we can build excellent aircraft carriers on the basis of dry cargo ships: with a flight deck, a hangar and all the necessary equipment. They will be small and not as fast as real warships, but cheap and fast in construction - just right for escort tasks. Fill them with the fleet as soon as possible. The project has already been prepared and approved by our experts.
(Note: this is not possible these days - the size and landing speeds of jet planes are too large.)

- Are you confident in your abilities?

“I'm sure ... how much will the fleet pay for my ships?”




Casablanca was often used as an air transport.




They agreed on the amount, shook hands - and the work began to boil. The project received the designation "Casablanca" - a series of 50 escort aircraft carriers in the shortest possible time. The first USS Casablanca (CVE-55) aircraft carrier was launched on July 8 on the 1943. The last is USS Munda (CVE-104) - 8 July 1944. Henry Kaiser kept his promise.

Despite the escort specialization, "Casablanca" was used mainly for other operations: kids in the number of 5-10 units became on the roads of the doomed island - and then the Japanese positions were plowed in with the support of artillery ships for weeks. They dug so that there was not a single whole tree on the shore, and the landing marines found only a dozen deaf and insane soldiers from the thousandth Japanese garrison. Own losses "Casablanoc" for the year of the war amounted to 5 ships.

As for Henry Kaiser, everything that happened at his enterprises is genuinely surprising. The main task was the construction of transport type "Liberty" - Kaiser built ships faster than they could sink the Germans. Three pieces a day, 2770 ships for the entire war. Rational layout, modular design and the use of welding have reduced the technological cycle to 45 days. By the end of the war, this figure was improved to 24 day. The “Robert Peary” was the fastest assembled - the 130-meter dry cargo ship stood up for loading after 4 of the day 15 hours after laying its keel at the shipyard.

We didn’t think much about choosing names for thousands of ships - everyone who donated a specified amount of money received the right to name the ship after themselves.


Another large series of transports - type "Victory" (improved "Liberty", built in the number of 531 units)


The Soviet sailors recalled with a smile the process of getting the land-lease ships:

- Hello, captain. Here are the keys: small from the boxes, large from the door. Good luck.

This was the end of the acceptance process. The ship with the cargo went to sea.

In general, everything related to shipbuilding, the Yankees managed extremely successfully - ships meant to the United States no less than Tanks for the USSR. Enormous capacities were allocated for their construction - the only Americans who mastered the serial construction of cruisers and battleships during the war. The number of aircraft carriers built has reached 151 (of which 20 are heavy). Destroyers - they baked like hot cakes: over 800 units! And in terms of the combination of combat characteristics, the Essexes, Iowa and Fletchers were the best in the world.


Fletcher type destroyers before launching (built with a series of 175 units)


Epilogue

How did a country with a population of 130 million produce such an incredible amount of equipment during the war years? There are more cars and trucks - 5 million units, more than in all countries of the world combined. The focus has a simple explanation: the United States was the first to industrialize, and by the beginning of the 20th century it was the most industrially advanced state. In their location there were all the resource bases of North and South America - American industry did not know the lack of fuel, rubber or alloying additives. The number of workers did not decrease due to total mobilization (during the war years 11 million Americans were called up for military service - 3,5 times less than in the Soviet Union), tens of millions of people did not disappear in the territory occupied by the enemy and did not know the horrors of a distant war .

The industrial areas of the United States were not ruined. In the presence of all the necessary resources, the best engineering personnel and highly skilled workforce. Technological processes and methods of work organization have been worked out in practice to the smallest detail. In the end, all this allowed for several months to build factories in an open field and to lay roads through the polar taiga. During the war years, the fighters of the American "Labor Front" accomplished many worthy feats, thereby bringing the overall Victory closer.


Transport type "Liberty", our days



Construction of the Iowa type head battleship



Iowa airborne salvo





"Strict pipe inspector". The slightest flaw in the hydraulic system of the aircraft threatened disaster. The quality control of these parts has received the closest attention.



B-24 Liberator and B-17 Flying Fortress (background)
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  1. My address
    My address 12 December 2013 08: 33
    +7
    So we need to act this way in industry and in everything else.
    1. kaktus
      kaktus 12 December 2013 08: 46
      +1
      well, not in everything yes
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 12 December 2013 09: 23
        11
        "The strange L-shape of the shop had a simple explanation: the plant was designed to stay away from the neighboring county, where land tax was higher. Capitalist Ford counted every cent."

        All this is somehow strange, at first glance, it sounds in a warring country. But, remembering that America did business in this war, everything falls into place.

        “How did a country with a population of 130 million people produce such an incredible amount of technology during the war years?
        The industrial areas of the USA were not ravaged. "


        This is the main explanation. The same Ford chose a place where there were lower taxes, and the USSR, evacuating enterprises, chose a place where the Germans could not get. I would like to look at the states if the Japanese (exaggeratedly) captured Texas, and the plants would have to be transferred from Florida to Alaska.
        1. ben gun
          ben gun 12 December 2013 09: 57
          +8
          The prom potential of the former allies is very impressive. To the question, and ours could have done so? Building warships and transport ships like pies? Bombers like pies - I think YES. Example fifth link in the queue (Yandex) about airplanes per day -
          "Regiment per day" - this was the labor slogan of the workers of the Novosibirsk aircraft plant. Chkalov during the Great Patriotic War. In total, the aviation industry of the Soviet Union produced 36 Yak fighters in the five war years. Almost every second one left the walls of the Chkalovsky enterprise.

          The first Yak-7 were released here in December 1941. By the end of the year, the first batch was released - the 21 aircraft, and in the 1942 year they were already built 2 211. Such results were achieved thanks to the dedicated work of workers and employees, who did not leave the workshops for days and overfulfilled the tasks several dozens, or even hundreds of times. The world practice did not know such examples, and despite the fact that more than 70% of the plant's employees during this period were women and teenagers of 12-14 years. One of the ways to accomplish this important task was the organization of production assembly lines for aircraft. By the end of the war, 29 of such lines were involved in the plant.
          The contribution of Novosibirsk aircraft manufacturers to the great Victory was marked by the Order of Lenin and the banner of the State Defense Committee, which was transferred to the enterprise for eternal storage.
          Source: http://www.aviationtoday.ru/
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 12 December 2013 10: 25
            +9
            Quote: ben gun
            To the question, and ours could have done so? Building warships and transport ships like pies?

            Ships in the Second World War were not a decisive force in our theater. We needed land weapons, how many riveted T-34? Is this not worthy of respect?
            1. Magellan
              Magellan 12 December 2013 11: 04
              10
              Quote: Vladimirets
              We needed land weapons, how many riveted T-34?

              As many as Shermans

              The Yankees produced more armored vehicles than the USSR and the Third Reich combined
              200 000+ tanks, self-propelled guns, armored personnel carriers, LVT (floating tracked armored personnel carriers for the marine corps) and special equipment based on tank chassis (bridge spacers, BREM, MLRS, etc.)
              Their quality is evidenced by the fact that only Guards units were armed with Lend-Lease Shermans (the USSR supplied the mod. M4A2 with a diesel engine - a variant of the US Marine Corps).

              Having the same security, mobility and firepower in comparison with the T-34, “Sherman” possessed a number of remarkable qualities:
              - accurate and reliable hydraulic drive of the tower - in any dueling situation, Sherman’s shot was the first
              - less noise
              - heavy machine gun 12,7 mm
              - ergonomics of the fighting compartment, unprecedented for the Soviet BTT, and amenities for the crew to work - less tanker fatigue, higher rate of fire
              - finally, the build quality and equipment of the American car became legendary (electric tiles, tank suits, leatherette seats - which were cut off to boots, etc.)
              1. Vladimirets
                Vladimirets 12 December 2013 11: 37
                +6
                Quote: Magellan
                As many as Shermans

                Just, again, do not forget that the Yankees did not fight on their territory.
                1. Eugeniy_369
                  Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 12: 04
                  +5
                  Quote: Vladimirets
                  Just, again, do not forget that the Yankees did not fight on their territory.

                  And who was stopping us?
                  “If the enemy attacks Soviet Ukraine, Soviet Belarus or another part of the Union, we will not only not let the enemy go to our homeland, but we will beat him in the territory where he came from” ... If the enemy appears, be sure to beat him on its territory. ”- K. E. Voroshilov (September 16, 1936)?
                  1. Vladimirets
                    Vladimirets 12 December 2013 12: 29
                    11
                    Quote: Eugeniy_369
                    Quote: Vladimirets
                    Just, again, do not forget that the Yankees did not fight on their territory.
                    And who was stopping us?
                    “If the enemy attacks Soviet Ukraine, Soviet Belarus or another part of the Union, we will not only not let the enemy go to our homeland, but we will beat him in the territory where he came from” ... If the enemy appears, be sure to beat him on its territory. ”- K. E. Voroshilov (September 16, 1936)?

                    What does "who interfered" here? We are talking about the already existing conditions of production, we have: 1. The captured or destroyed industrial and agricultural areas, the evacuation of enterprises into the "open field", practically, a universal conscription with armor for the MOST necessary specialists. 2. An isolated territory with initial industrial capital, which only needed to be modernized and intensified, but not hidden and transported thousands of kilometers away, qualified personnel that no one took away.
                    I do not say that the Yankees were dumb or armless, they did a lot, but they worked compared to the Soviet people in greenhouse conditions. And it disgusts me that some enthusiastically admire the fact that the Yankees, de, were able to, but we are orphaned and miserable. I think the USSR in the most difficult conditions could do more if we compare the starting position.
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 12 December 2013 13: 18
                      +6
                      Quote: Vladimirets
                      I do not say that the Yankees were dumb or armless, they did a lot, but they worked compared to the Soviet people in greenhouse conditions.

                      And they also fought in greenhouse conditions.
                    2. ImPerts
                      ImPerts 12 December 2013 13: 50
                      +5
                      100500
                      And if you compare with other WWII participants, in which the war went through the rink, then even more so.
                      The pace was such that the Americans were astounded. And the post-war world depended on the opinion of two powers, and not one, as in the ever-memorable post-perestroika.
                    3. The comment was deleted.
                      1. ImPerts
                        ImPerts 12 December 2013 14: 52
                        -1
                        Not in 3-4 years. We still have to work. But the modernization of the former "Gorshkov" showed that in principle we can. Build speed is the next step.
                    4. Samuray
                      Samuray 12 December 2013 14: 45
                      -1
                      And what prevents Russia in peacetime from rebuilding a modern fleet? I’m not sure that Russia is capable of building, for example, an aircraft carrier in 3-4 years!
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 December 2013 14: 52
                        +5
                        Quote: Samuray
                        And what prevents Russia in peacetime from rebuilding a modern fleet? I’m not sure that Russia is capable of building, for example, an aircraft carrier in 3-4 years!

                        Dear, carrier srach on another branch.
                      2. Samuray
                        Samuray 12 December 2013 15: 03
                        -3
                        Dear Hooray patriot, I probably didn’t put it right! I meant that Russia, even in greenhouse conditions, is not able to catch up and overtake America - as Khrushchev promised
                      3. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 December 2013 15: 18
                        +5
                        Quote: Samuray
                        Dear Hurray Patriot

                        Dear cheer traitor
                        Quote: Samuray
                        I meant that Russia, even in greenhouse conditions, is not able to catch up and overtake America - as Khrushchev promised

                        I meant that now the debate will begin about the need to overtake America in aircraft carriers, and about the need for aircraft carriers in general.
                        I note the dispute is not the topic.
                      4. ImPerts
                        ImPerts 12 December 2013 15: 24
                        +2
                        At the same time, add tolerant values ​​to the srach. Bo, in addition to the values ​​of aircraft carriers, you need to understand that the speed of construction of aircraft carriers depends on gay freedoms.
                    5. cdrt
                      cdrt 13 December 2013 01: 44
                      +3
                      Quote: Samuray
                      Dear Hooray patriot, I probably didn’t put it right! I meant that Russia, even in greenhouse conditions, is not able to catch up and overtake America - as Khrushchev promised


                      Hmm ... 140 million against 300, 3 trillion dollars against 13, stagnant engineering against the technological leader of the world - we will not catch up with this fact.
                      But we can take our place in the world - like we don’t touch anyone and don’t give ourselves.
                    6. yehat
                      yehat 24 December 2013 18: 07
                      0
                      Quote: Samuray
                      Dear Hooray patriot, I probably didn’t put it right! I meant that Russia, even in greenhouse conditions, is not able to catch up and overtake America - as Khrushchev promised

                      or maybe we’ll compete in growing rice with the Chinese and bananas with blacks?
                      Khrushchev's statement is not a very smart slogan
                      but in reality, we competed with the United States for many years and often pulled ahead in many areas. Fundamental science has moved especially far, which has created a threat to go into isolation forever. It’s just that the careerists who were in power then did not understand and did not want to build a state.
                    7. yehat
                      yehat 24 December 2013 18: 07
                      0
                      Quote: Samuray
                      Dear Hooray patriot, I probably didn’t put it right! I meant that Russia, even in greenhouse conditions, is not able to catch up and overtake America - as Khrushchev promised

                      or maybe we’ll compete in growing rice with the Chinese and bananas with blacks?
                      Khrushchev's statement is not a very smart slogan
                      but in reality, we competed with the United States for many years and often pulled ahead in many areas. Fundamental science has moved especially far, which has created a threat to go into isolation forever. It’s just that the careerists who were in power then did not understand and did not want to build a state.
                2. ImPerts
                  ImPerts 12 December 2013 15: 26
                  0
                  Not in 3-4 years. We still have to work. But the modernization of the former "Gorshkov" showed that in principle we can. Build speed is the next step.
              2. Eugeniy_369
                Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 15: 24
                0
                Quote: Vladimirets
                I think the USSR in the most difficult conditions could do more if we compare the starting position.

                In this, I agree with you.
                Quote: Vladimirets
                I do not say that the Yankees were dumb or armless, they did a lot, but they worked compared to the Soviet people in greenhouse conditions.

                So it’s the merit of their leadership that they worked in
                greenhouse conditions

                Quote: Vladimirets
                What does "who interfered" here? We are talking about the already established conditions of production,

                My opinion is that this topic cannot be considered in isolation.
                1. ImPerts
                  ImPerts 12 December 2013 16: 13
                  -2
                  Quote: Eugeniy_369
                  So it’s the merit of their leadership that they worked in


                  Quote: Eugeniy_369
                  My opinion is that this topic cannot be considered in isolation.

                  It was necessary to dig a channel at least 9.000 km wide. And on both sides.
        2. Energet1k_
          Energet1k_ 12 December 2013 12: 13
          +7
          Uv.Magellan maybe you just replayed in WoT wink what are 200+ tanks ?? Do you even imagine this community? For the record, Germany began the war with about 000 armored vehicles at its disposal! Yes, you wrote a lot of flattering things to Sherman, but you forgot one very important circumstance - when meeting with German tanks, Shermans flew off the towers regardless of penetration, and as they say, easy movement ... the tank turns into a convertible)) And the rest mobility / firepower points are also very much in doubt!
          1. Magellan
            Magellan 12 December 2013 12: 32
            12
            Quote: Energet1k_
            what are 200+ tanks?


            Shermans - 49
            Armored personnel carriers of the M3 / M5 / M9 family - 31
            PT-ACS M10 "Wolverine" - 6 706
            LVT of all options - 18
            ZSU on the half-track chassis M16 - 4 614
            so unloved among patriots medium tank M3 "Li" - 6
            light tank M5 "Stuart" - 23 685
            light armored personnel carrier / BRDM M3 Scout Car - 20 994
            105 mm self-propelled guns M7 Priest - 4
            PT0-self-propelled guns M18 Hellket - 2 507
            assault gun M8 -1 778
            155 mm SPG M40 - issued in a symbolic number of 418 copies.
            light tank M24 Chaffee - 4 721
            heavy tank M26 Pershing - 1 436
            half-tracked armored personnel carrier M2 - 13 691
            .

            THERE IS SO AND THE SPECIFIED NUMBER OF BTT UNITS HAS BEEN PACKED
          2. BBM
            BBM 12 December 2013 13: 45
            -3
            Have you collapsed from an oak tree?
          3. EvilLion
            EvilLion 12 December 2013 15: 48
            +1
            Well, from a 17-pound German tank, in addition to superheavy, it was also bad. In general, of course, there are questions about the losses of the Shermans, because if the tanks do not burn out instantly, then they do not need to be stamped in tens of thousands, and before the Overlord they did not see much battle, Africa is too small, in the Pacific Ocean, tank divisions in general did not have.
          4. cdrt
            cdrt 13 December 2013 01: 47
            +1
            Quote: Energet1k_
            Uv.Magellan maybe you just replayed in WoT wink what are 200+ tanks ?? Do you even imagine this community? For the record, Germany began the war with about 000 armored vehicles at its disposal! Yes, you wrote a lot of flattering things to Sherman, but you forgot one very important circumstance - when meeting with German tanks, Shermans flew off the towers regardless of penetration, and as they say, easy movement ... the tank turns into a convertible)) And the rest mobility / firepower points are also very much in doubt!


            The towers flew off during the war with any tanks. Especially in the situation of Sherman / T-34 against for example the Tiger. Therefore, they fought with them from ambushes, crushing at night or in bulk. That was actually calculated (that is why the Sherman / T-34 were much cheaper, or rather less labor-intensive and resource-intensive than the Tiger)
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. 0255
          0255 12 December 2013 15: 21
          +3
          in comparison with the T-34, the "Sherman" had a number of remarkable qualities

          and Sherman got better out of German tanks. T-34 Germans respected more. And in Korea, the T-34 also coped well with the Sherman’s wreck.
          - finally, the build quality and equipment of the American car became legendary (electric tiles, tank suits, leatherette seats - which were cut off to boots, etc.)

          The Americans had better working conditions.
        5. EvilLion
          EvilLion 12 December 2013 15: 45
          +3
          And they joked that the Sherman was the best tank to serve in peacetime. They didn’t make a sensible fluff for him, and sending him to the guard was just logical, the guys were no longer from the plow. By the way, the Sherman's shot gave a mega-bright flash, unmasking the tank and blinding the gunner. In general, it does not look like a Sherman tank against the background of the T-34-85, but how the machine is technically perfect for its time.
          1. Orang
            Orang 12 December 2013 23: 18
            +1
            Quote: EvilLion
            And they joked that the Sherman was the best tank to serve in peacetime. They didn’t make a sensible fluff for him, and sending him to the guard was just logical, the guys were no longer from the plow. By the way, the Sherman's shot gave a mega-bright flash, unmasking the tank and blinding the gunner. In general, it does not look like a Sherman tank against the background of the T-34-85, but how the machine is technically perfect for its time.

            Another tactic, the Americans did not like to engage in tank battles. The problem of the Tigers and Panthers was solved by radio communications and attack aircraft. and a little, relative to the Eastern Front, there were German tanks against them. To suppress the VET and others on the battlefield, a 75 mm Sherman gun was enough. Sherman’s armor had the valuable property of not giving secondary fragments, and shells did not explode in a fire, the crew had more chances to escape and received a new car (American industry had no problems with this) to fight again. Experienced personnel remained.
            1. Santa Fe
              12 December 2013 23: 34
              +1
              Quote: Orang
              and a little, relative to the Eastern Front, there were German tanks against them
          2. cdrt
            cdrt 13 December 2013 01: 49
            0
            Quote: EvilLion
            And they joked that the Sherman was the best tank to serve in peacetime. They didn’t make a sensible fluff for him, and sending him to the guard was just logical, the guys were no longer from the plow. By the way, the Sherman's shot gave a mega-bright flash, unmasking the tank and blinding the gunner. In general, it does not look like a Sherman tank against the background of the T-34-85, but how the machine is technically perfect for its time.


            Tell us about the absence of a gun for Sherman to AOI tankers in 1967 laughing
      2. 0255
        0255 12 December 2013 15: 16
        +5
        Ships in the Second World War were not a decisive force in our theater. We needed land weapons, how many riveted T-34? Is this not worthy of respect?

        Well, the Americans had to fight the Japanese, and the Japanese then had a strong fleet. But Soviet industry deserves more respect, given that the factories began to work in the open air, women and children worked for them. hi
        1. My doctor
          My doctor 12 December 2013 23: 09
          +3
          Quote: 0255

          But Soviet industry deserves more respect, given that the factories began to work in the open air, women and children worked for them.

          It is not the merit of industry, but the SELF-DEDICATED LABOR of women and children deserves respect.
      3. postman
        postman 18 December 2013 17: 24
        0
        Quote: Vladimirets
        T-34 how many riveted?

        To compare the material consumption and technological complexity of the T-34 and almost any ship ... not seriously.
        Yes, and Shermanov (only) them, a little less than the T-34 was released (2nd place), and GENERALLY the tank of the USA was released MORE than the USSR
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Is this not worthy of respect?

        and who denies this?

        OUR MILITARY WORKERS IN THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR
    2. Magellan
      Magellan 12 December 2013 11: 46
      +6
      Quote: ben gun
      In total, the aviation industry of the Soviet Union produced 36 thousand Yak-type fighters during the five war years.

      Yankees fired 40 thousand strategic bombers
      more than 12 thousand "Flying Fortresses", 18 thousand "Liberators" + 3 thousand B-29 - vehicles of a completely different generation with pressurized cabins, outrageous flight characteristics, automatic turrets, etc. hi-tech.

      The cost and labor intensity of the construction of a single-engine IL-2 (max. Take-off mass 6 tons) and four-engine "Fortress" (max. Take-off weight 30 tons) differed by an order of magnitude. On board the American bomber were installed 900 kg of armor plates, 10 large-caliber "Browning", radar bomb sights and electromechanical (analog) sighting devices "Norden" (Il-2 had no bombsight at all).

      So the question is:
      Quote: ben gun
      and ours could do that?

      The answer is no. Neither the USSR could develop or launch in serial production an aircraft of a similar level to the USSR.
      Quote: ben gun
      and in 1942 2 of them were already built

      During the war years, the Yankees produced 287 thousand aircraft - more than the USSR, the Third Reich and Japan combined. Moreover, the quality of these aircraft was incomparable with Soviet and even German aircraft - what is one K-14 gyroscopic sight or an anti-overload suit for a Mustang pilot? Or a 2400 hp engine. ("double star" PrattWeatley, which became the main surprise for all opponents of the United States - no German "wunderwaffe" could compete with this ingenious and reliable engine)
      1. Prometey
        Prometey 12 December 2013 12: 10
        +7
        Quote: Magellan
        more than 12 thousand "Flying Fortresses", 18 thousand "Liberators" + 3 thousand B-29 - vehicles of a completely different generation with pressurized cabins, outrageous flight characteristics, automatic turrets, etc. hi-tech.

        Objectively speaking, the industrial and technological power of the United States is simply impressive. I still do not understand the Japanese - what kind of idiots you had to be in order to get involved in a war with this supergiant.
        Quote: Magellan
        Neither the USSR could develop or launch in serial production an aircraft of a similar level to the USSR.

        No, during the war. After the war, they dismantled the B-29 cogs to create something similar for themselves.
        1. Magellan
          Magellan 12 December 2013 12: 34
          +9
          Quote: Prometey
          After the war, disassembled into the B-29 cogs to create something similar for yourself.

          It is undoubtedly
          The industry of the USSR has evolved every year - in the 1960s they could already play on equal terms, and in some ways ahead of the whole world wink
        2. bairat
          bairat 12 December 2013 17: 53
          -3
          Quote: Prometey
          No, during the war. After the war, they dismantled the B-29 cogs to create something similar for themselves.

          During the war, they had already disassembled and began to copy. An ugly story, the allies landed on emergency aircraft requisitioned, substantiated this by an agreement with the Japanese.
          1. cdrt
            cdrt 13 December 2013 01: 52
            +1
            Quote: bairat
            Quote: Prometey
            No, during the war. After the war, they dismantled the B-29 cogs to create something similar for themselves.

            During the war, they had already disassembled and began to copy. An ugly story, the allies landed on emergency aircraft requisitioned, substantiated this by an agreement with the Japanese.


            Politics eats the art of the possible (c) Machiavelli laughing
            Industrial policy too
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 12 December 2013 12: 18
        +6
        Quote: Magellan
        Moreover, the quality of these aircraft was incomparable with Soviet and even German aircraft

        Let me remind you that Americans had access to resources that simply did not exist in the USSR! Yes, our planes were made of plywood, because there were not enough materials needed.
        1. Prometey
          Prometey 12 December 2013 12: 24
          -5
          Quote: Setrac
          Yes, our planes were made of plywood, because there were not enough materials needed.

          Yes, we had enough. Just someone responsible for the production of aircraft head was plywood.
          1. Magellan
            Magellan 12 December 2013 12: 41
            +8
            Quote: Prometey
            Just someone responsible for the production of aircraft head was plywood.

            The Yankees were stunned when they saw the berths lined with Lend-Lease aluminum in the port of Arkhangelsk (according to the documents - an order from the USSR aircraft industry)
          2. pensioner
            pensioner 12 December 2013 13: 26
            +5
            Quote: Prometey
            Yes, we had enough.

            Aluminum and alloys based on it were sorely lacking. Until the middle of the 44th. All aviation historians write about this. Yes, and aircraft designers too ...
            1. Prometey
              Prometey 12 December 2013 13: 29
              -10 qualifying.
              Quote: retired
              Aluminum and alloys based on it were sorely lacking.

              What prevented the development of its production and processing? Russia is not deprived of bauxites. Just the stereotyped thinking and disregard for their own pilots allowed riveting what was cheaper and more convenient.
              1. Taoist
                Taoist 12 December 2013 13: 52
                12
                Do you know where "bauxite deposits" were discovered at that time? And how much electricity does its processing require? So try to calculate how many more resources the USSR had to invest in order to create this production with all the required infrastructure?
                And what about the phrase that "riveted from what was more convenient ..."
                Well, apparently the production of "Mosquito" with its all-wood construction was justified solely by "disregard for British pilots", and the world's first serial all-metal monoplane built by A.N. Tupolev and was built in a large series for that time was simply an example of "mismanagement and squandering of folk remedies"
                1. atalef
                  atalef 12 December 2013 20: 46
                  +2
                  Quote: Taoist
                  Do you know where "bauxite deposits" were discovered at that time? And how much electricity does its processing require? So try to calculate how many more resources the USSR had to invest in order to create this production with all the required infrastructure?

                  I am in the know
                  1932 - Volkhov aluminum -.
                  1933 Dneprovsky aluminum plant in Zaporozhye was launched, powered by Dneproges electric power.
                  1934 - The North Ural bauxite mine is created. To expand production geography, bauxite searches were organized nationwide.
                  1936 - The South Ural bauxite mine was launched, which determined the construction of a new powerful aluminum plant in the Urals.
                  1938 - the Tikhvin Alumina Plant (subsequently renamed Boksitogorsk Alumina Plant) was put into operation with an annual capacity of 40 thousand tons.
                  1939 - the first stage of the Ural Aluminum Plant was launched in the city of Kamensk-Uralsky on the Iset River.
                  1940 - the volume of aluminum produced reached 60 thousand tons. The USSR came in third in the world in this indicatoryielding to Germany and the USA.
                2. ImPerts
                  ImPerts 12 December 2013 21: 06
                  0
                  And where were the plants?
              2. cdrt
                cdrt 13 December 2013 01: 57
                0
                Quote: Taoist
                Well, apparently the production of "Mosquito" with its all-wood construction was justified solely by "disregard for British pilots"


                Well, you do not equal the balsa with the pine veneer. Well ... balsa was used deliberately to INCREASE the characteristics, but the veneer was deliberately, but due to a recognized deficiency of aluminum.
              3. Beck
                Beck 13 December 2013 02: 25
                +1
                Quote: Taoist
                Well, apparently the production of "Mosquito" with its all-wood construction was justified solely by "disregard for British pilots"


                Of course not.

                One of the main reasons for the wooden "Mosquito" and, among other things, is that the masters of their craft have joined the defense industry. Who before that could not apply their skills in the defense of the country.

                These are joiners and cabinetmakers of furniture factories in England.
              4. Taoist
                Taoist 13 December 2013 11: 55
                +1
                Here I am about the same ... If the USSR had the opportunity to get balsa in commercial quantities, you would look, and with us the Yak-4 flew no worse than Mosquito.
                In any case, the production technology is determined by the general level of industrial development and the availability of resources. The use of the tree is not a basis for statements of "that pilots were not appreciated" or that "constructor".
          3. pensioner
            pensioner 12 December 2013 14: 10
            +5
            Quote: Prometey
            What prevented the development of its production and processing?

            Stupidly there was not enough electricity. Also catastrophically. And further:
            Quote: Prometey
            Just the stereotyped thinking and disregard for their own pilots allowed riveting what was cheaper and more convenient.
            This is "cheaper and more convenient", with the massive use of wood, especially in fighter aircraft, in terms of combat qualities it was not much inferior to German, all-metal aircraft. Just because of the high aerodynamic culture. This is by the way about stereotyped. And with the overcoming of the "aluminum hunger", Soviet fighter aircraft surpassed the modern piston German aircraft. La-7, Yak-9 (last series), Yak-3 (sample 44). Even the Germans themselves admitted this. There are German reports on the testing of our captured aircraft in 45g.
            1. cdrt
              cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 03
              0
              Quote: retired
              Quote: Prometey
              What prevented the development of its production and processing?

              Stupidly there was not enough electricity. Also catastrophically. And further:
              Quote: Prometey
              Just the stereotyped thinking and disregard for their own pilots allowed riveting what was cheaper and more convenient.
              This is "cheaper and more convenient", with the massive use of wood, especially in fighter aircraft, in terms of combat qualities it was not much inferior to German, all-metal aircraft. Just because of the high aerodynamic culture. This is by the way about stereotyped. And with the overcoming of the "aluminum hunger", Soviet fighter aircraft surpassed the modern piston German aircraft. La-7, Yak-9 (last series), Yak-3 (sample 44). Even the Germans themselves admitted this. There are German reports on the testing of our captured aircraft in 45g.


              Can links to German reports on the superiority of La-7, Yak-9 and especially the Yak-3 over German cars?
              So if you recall, in 1944 there were already Me-109K, FW-190D, etc.
              Well ... the beginning of the mass use of Me-262 also falls on 1944.
              As if different generations of aircraft were still.
              Well ... ours on the Yak-ahs all increased maneuverability on the horizontal, although the Germans never fought on them. It’s not without reason that our best pilots fought in powerful heavy vehicles (Aerocobra, La-7), and not light ones.
          4. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 12 December 2013 14: 12
            10
            Quote: Prometey
            What prevented the development of its production and processing? Russia is not deprived of bauxites

            You wonder what was in the way? War. My grandfather in Tagil for months did not leave the factory, he slept near the machine. Granny was eating him there. It’s good to sing praises to pendos, as Magelan does, but you don’t need to belittle our merits. They did not wage war on their territory, they did not need to direct the main production resources to ensure the safety of the production itself. Their factories did not bomb. It is enough to see in what suits and dresses they collect airplanes, and compare them with ours so that everything is clear, and then talk about stereotyped thinking.
          5. ImPerts
            ImPerts 12 December 2013 14: 27
            +5
            Any aluminum plant is tied to a large power plant. Do not notice? How many large power plants were beyond the Urals? The state would be ready for a large-scale war by the 1942 year. Therefore, the pact, and therefore flirting.
            And ... The all-metal shell, more precisely of duralumin, does not give an advantage to a fighter. What Kozhedub proved by shooting down the Me-262 while flying La-7.
            1. trenkkvaz
              trenkkvaz 12 December 2013 21: 38
              +1
              Quote: ImPerts

              And ... The all-metal shell, more precisely of duralumin, does not give an advantage to a fighter. What Kozhedub proved by shooting down the Me-262 while flying La-7.


              Such conclusions are always touching. smile
              You can remove the sentry armed AK with a penknife and then say, this proves that the knife is cooler than AK.
              La-7 has no chance at all in a real battle against the Me-262. And the point is not in the metal.
            2. pRofF
              pRofF 12 December 2013 22: 08
              0
              Are you a pilot, dear? If so categorically judge. I would not be so categorical. Why? Just because of the difference in speeds of these aircraft. Me-262 - the firstborn of jet aircraft. And La - he is a piston. What does it mean? The fact that La is able to reduce speed - and fly - to a level at which the Bag can no longer stay in the air. But for aiming you need to keep the yawing plane on course ...
              This example includes - and Fuseller-Storch, a German intelligence officer, the famous "Aist". He could almost float in the air at all, just glide. Slowed down - and our planes just passed by.
              Why is all this said. "No chance" is too categorical a statement. It all depends on the conditions of use of the weapon. The same AK - well, fight him in the house, in narrow corridors or rooms. A skilled enemy will stab you 10 times - not like with a knife - a nail file.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 12 December 2013 15: 53
          +3
          Aluminum production in the USSR arose around Siberian hydroelectric power stations; during the war, one could not even dream of such a thing. DneproGES, for example, increased energy production in the country almost 2 times with one input.
        3. cdrt
          cdrt 13 December 2013 01: 54
          +1
          Quote: Prometey
          Quote: retired
          Aluminum and alloys based on it were sorely lacking.

          What prevented the development of its production and processing? Russia is not deprived of bauxites. Just the stereotyped thinking and disregard for their own pilots allowed riveting what was cheaper and more convenient.


          We open the textbook on economic geography and go through the textbook on the main deposits in the former USSR in Wiki and read when it was discovered and developed.
          Behold a lot of interesting things, I promise laughing
      3. bairat
        bairat 12 December 2013 17: 56
        +1
        Not a single aluminum part was left on the tanks, everything was replaced with steel. With rubber, they also reduced everything that is possible, tanks flooded with rain and non-rubberized rinks rumbled for a kilometer.
        1. pensioner
          pensioner 12 December 2013 18: 34
          +2
          Quote: bairat
          Not a single aluminum part was left on the tanks, everything was replaced with steel.

          The flasks even began to make glass ...
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 12 December 2013 15: 51
      +6
      The plywood heads did not hold for a long time, otherwise the War would not have ended in Berlin.
  2. atalef
    atalef 12 December 2013 20: 41
    -1
    Quote: Setrac
    Let me remind you that Americans had access to resources that simply did not exist in the USSR! Yes, our planes were made of plywood, because there were not enough materials needed.

    And what was missing before the war? What prevented the USSR from producing similar equipment before the war (I don’t take the quantity), I ask about the quality and level.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 12 December 2013 20: 44
      -1
      Quote: atalef
      And what was missing before the war? What prevented the USSR from producing similar equipment before the war (I don’t take the quantity), I ask about the quality and level.

      There was not enough time, resources that needed to be put on the defensive, instead of development. Or do you need to recall how long industrialization took place in the USSR?
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 07
      0
      Quote: atalef
      Quote: Setrac
      Let me remind you that Americans had access to resources that simply did not exist in the USSR! Yes, our planes were made of plywood, because there were not enough materials needed.

      And what was missing before the war? What prevented the USSR from producing similar equipment before the war (I don’t take the quantity), I ask about the quality and level.



      You will not believe - technological backwardness ...
      The establishment of the power of the Bolsheviks and their struggle for world domination (i.e. world revolution) was expensive for the country - almost completely scientific, engineering schools left.
      Everything had to be created anew, purchasing for everything that could sell machines, plants, plant designs, etc.
  • 0255
    0255 12 December 2013 15: 42
    +3
    Moreover, the quality of these aircraft was incomparable with Soviet and even German aircraft - what is one K-14 gyroscopic sight or an anti-overload suit for a Mustang pilot? Or a 2400 hp engine. ("double star" PrattWeatley, which became the main surprise for all opponents of the United States - no German "wunderwaffe" could compete with this ingenious and reliable engine)

    At the end of the war, the Germans had the Messerschmitt-262, which could have restored air supremacy to the Germans. After the war, they were highly appreciated in the USA and the USSR, and it was recognized that if it had appeared earlier, the outcome of the war would have been different. the double star "did not help.
    And he did not return the Wehrmacht air supremacy just because the Red Army liberated oil-bearing Romania. Be less enthusiastic about the Americans.
    1. ImPerts
      ImPerts 12 December 2013 16: 16
      -1
      One on one? Kozhedub did not care)))
      Romania, more precisely oil-bearing areas, was liberated in 1944.
      In 1944, a German fighter jet could no longer help !!!
      In 1944, even closing the 2nd front would not have helped. The military might of the Soviet Union reached its maximum, it would grind and "allies".
      http://topwar.ru/18625-operaciya-nemyslimoeunthinkable-britaniya-dolzhna-byla-na
      past-na-sssr-1-iyulya-1945.html
      Therefore, they did not rock the boat)))
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 12 December 2013 15: 50
    0
    There was TB-7, but they did not make a fighter for it, and in the conditions of the eastern front, IL-2 turned out to be more important.
  • cdrt
    cdrt 13 December 2013 01: 39
    0
    Quote: ben gun
    The prom potential of the former allies is very impressive. To the question, and ours could have done so? Building warships and transport ships like pies? Bombers like pies - I think YES. Example fifth link in the queue (Yandex) about airplanes per day -
    "Regiment per day" - this was the labor slogan of the workers of the Novosibirsk aircraft plant. Chkalov during the Great Patriotic War. In total, the aviation industry of the Soviet Union produced 36 Yak fighters in the five war years. Almost every second one left the walls of the Chkalovsky enterprise.

    The first Yak-7 were released here in December 1941. By the end of the year, the first batch was released - the 21 aircraft, and in the 1942 year they were already built 2 211. Such results were achieved thanks to the dedicated work of workers and employees, who did not leave the workshops for days and overfulfilled the tasks several dozens, or even hundreds of times. The world practice did not know such examples, and despite the fact that more than 70% of the plant's employees during this period were women and teenagers of 12-14 years. One of the ways to accomplish this important task was the organization of production assembly lines for aircraft. By the end of the war, 29 of such lines were involved in the plant.
    The contribution of Novosibirsk aircraft manufacturers to the great Victory was marked by the Order of Lenin and the banner of the State Defense Committee, which was transferred to the enterprise for eternal storage.
    Source: http://www.aviationtoday.ru/



    Probably you should not compare the Yak-7 and the Liberator. As if the second time is 3-4 harder (i.e. more time-consuming and resource-intensive). Well, even if we have a lot to compete with, it’s not in aviation (after all, our aircraft in WWII were much simpler than the American ones), but in tank building.
    Our T-34s were again simpler, but I think that by the sum of the characteristics they exceeded everything that other countries in the world did (though here it is worth considering the variation in quality over factories, years, and lots, which was very large).
  • silver_roman
    silver_roman 12 December 2013 14: 47
    +6
    Quote: Vladimirets
    But, remembering that America did business in this war, everything falls into place.

    AMERICA created this war. In fact, this is a huge business project for them. No millions of victims are even discussed ...
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 12 December 2013 14: 54
      +2
      Quote: silver_roman
      AMERICA created this war. In fact, this is a huge business project for them. No millions of victims are even discussed ...

      In fact, World War II happened because a country such as the United States did not manage to participate in the redivision of the world after the First World War. Americans are organizers and main ideologists of the Second World War. Germany and Japan - performers, USA - customer and sponsor.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 12
        +1
        Quote: Setrac
        Quote: silver_roman
        AMERICA created this war. In fact, this is a huge business project for them. No millions of victims are even discussed ...

        In fact, World War II happened because a country such as the United States did not manage to participate in the redivision of the world after the First World War. Americans are organizers and main ideologists of the Second World War. Germany and Japan - performers, USA - customer and sponsor.


        Hmm ... about the United States as a country that pushed the world to war is true.
        Just do not forget that the USSR also officially preached the world revolution (and the actual appearance of fascism and Nazism was largely a reaction to the appearance of the communist threat).
        And Germany longed for revenge, and Japan empire in China.
        In short - the completion of the Great Systemic Crisis that led to the WWII.
        Only the World Bank and France, who barely survived WWI and did not want to lose anything from the "acquired by overwork", probably did not want war. Well, more precisely, as they did not want to - they tried to push those who wanted to fight not with them, but with each other.
  • postman
    postman 18 December 2013 17: 34
    +1
    Quote: Vladimirets
    This is the main explanation. T

    NO
    1. Labor productivity (it is now MORE, at times)
    2. Technological base (it is now MORE, at times)
    3. Entrepreneurship, stimulation by the ruble (dollar) i.e. lack of bureaucratic red tape and organizational skills (the same "Manhatan Project")
    Quote: Vladimirets
    I would like to look at the states if the Japanese (exaggeratedly) captured Texas

    1.This is of course unlikely, in my opinion the only country that lost (albeit conditionally) the war on its continent (mother country) after the landing, is .. Russia (sadly): Sevastopol War
    2. But even if ... Don’t forget when the Europeans arrived in America (15th century, the 1st expedition of the HC), and colonization (de facto) began much later in 1/2 of the 16th century ... THERE, THERE WASN’T NOTHING!!
    Neither railroads, nor just roads, nor ports, nor manufactories, mills, cousins, etc.
    ZERO Prairie
    And?
    For a relatively short period of time, this power has outstripped all other developed countries of the world. (which all this had before the birth of Christ).
    In all respects!
    but we still can’t master the Far East, the Kuril Islands, Kamchatka ... and the internal regions of Russia in STAGNATION
  • Interface
    Interface 12 December 2013 10: 20
    +1
    How easy it is to agitate everyone! How much is there, the sample was found! Right now, let's make capitalism, like the Americans have, oh, how will we live, it's good !!!! (greetings from the 90s) for sure the article was translated from English, they were taken from the book, I don't know the site. The author had to write about how our factories were moved to the Urals, about how people died from exhaustion for the Victory there, how they worked for the Motherland 15 hours a day without a break! And we have a fashion to look at well-groomed and sleek American girls posing for a positive photo. We imagined that on the most popular in the Internet military-political site topwar, during the year they would post beautifully harmonious articles about American industrial successes, without directly hinting at their "contribution" to the Victory. Of course, they will either look at them as gods, and at themselves as inferior, or they will not use the sites.
    1. Eugeniy_369
      Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 11: 46
      +5
      Quote: Interface
      It was necessary for the author to write about how the plants we moved to the Urals, about how people for the Victory died from exhaustion there, how they worked for the Motherland 15 hours a day without a break!

      And who allowed the deployment of the German army at its borders? And then he sang about the treacherous attack?
      Is it the fault of the USA that their industry was well developed and equipped with personnel and labor force? It is their fault that they bombed the Japanese on every island in the Stone Age and did not want shells and bombs but took care of personnel?
      PS I do not belittle the feat of my people, only he committed it not thanks, but against all odds.
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 12 December 2013 12: 11
        +2
        It remains to carry out modernization and reindustrialization in spite of. 25 years we are reconstructed, accelerated and most importantly - Stalin does not interfere bully
        It remains to wait a bit ...
        And she will happen drinks
        1. cdrt
          cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 15
          0
          Quote: ImPerts
          It remains to carry out modernization and reindustrialization in spite of. 25 years we are reconstructed, accelerated and most importantly - Stalin does not interfere bully
          It remains to wait a bit ...
          And she will happen drinks


          For repeated industrialization of the Russian Federation, the presence / absence of an IVS (depending on the views of the commenter) is a necessary condition, but by no means sufficient laughing
      2. Prometey
        Prometey 12 December 2013 12: 13
        +2
        Quote: Eugeniy_369

        And who allowed the deployment of the German army at its borders?

        And what had to be done - to deliver a preventive strike? The USSR was not ready in 1941 for a large-scale war.
        1. Eugeniy_369
          Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 13: 02
          -2
          Quote: Prometey
          And what had to be done - to deliver a preventive strike? The USSR was not ready in 1941 for a large-scale war.

          One can argue for a long time on this subject, I will say only one thing: this is the height of idiocy to observe the deployment of an enemy force grouping at its borders and to rely on some sort of pact.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 12 December 2013 13: 26
            -1
            Quote: Eugeniy_369
            One can argue for a long time on this subject, I will say only one thing: this is the height of idiocy to observe the deployment of an enemy force grouping at its borders and to rely on some sort of pact.

            The German army is concentrated at the borders of THREE times faster than the Soviet, only because the average distance in Europe is less than in the USSR! During the same time, the Germans managed to transfer 5.5 million people with equipment, the USSR 3.2 million people with equipment. Here is the math. Your suggestions?
            1. Eugeniy_369
              Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 15: 00
              0
              Quote: Setrac
              The German army is concentrated at the borders of THREE times faster than the Soviet, only because the average distance in Europe is less than in the USSR! During the same time, the Germans managed to transfer 5.5 million people with equipment, the USSR 3.2 million people with equipment. Here is the math. Your suggestions?

              What kind of math? What are the suggestions? What are you talking about? Damn, the Germans start airplanes with tanks, and we have graduations, although everyone is already screaming that war. This is about the leading role of the party and the particular leader.
              And I don’t need to give mathematical calculations, the leadership of the country delayed the attack! And then the factories in the Urals had to be evacuated.
              "Behold at the Root" - K. Prutkov
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 12 December 2013 16: 04
            +1
            No deployment was observed until June 41, as soon as it was noticed a reaction followed both at the diplomatic and military levels. Do not write nonsense if you are not familiar with the question.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 12 December 2013 16: 44
              0
              Quote: EvilLion
              No deployment was observed until June 41, as soon as it was noticed a reaction followed both at the diplomatic and military levels. Do not write nonsense if you are not familiar with the question.

              However, at the beginning of the war near the western border of the USSR, the Wehrmacht and its allies concentrated 5.5 million people, the Red Army - 3.2 million people.
        2. cdrt
          cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 19
          0
          Quote: Prometey
          bottom, this is the height of idiocy to observe the deployment of an enemy force grouping at its borders and rely on some sort of pact.


          Well, for example, a deep strategic defense on the line of the old border, in the style of the Kursk Bulge of 1943.
          I think that chthonically inadequate strategy of Stalin, Zhukov, our General Staff in the summer of 1941 (and counterattacks, marches of fur corps in a circle, and orders to advance) helped the Germans to be near Moscow no more than the skill and strength of the Wehrmacht and its command.
      3. Setrac
        Setrac 12 December 2013 12: 22
        +1
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        And who allowed the deployment of the German army at its borders?

        And how would you not allow Stalin? Tell us.
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        Is it the fault of the USA that their industry was well developed and equipped with personnel and labor force?

        May I remind you how they arranged a revolution in the Russian Empire with the money of Western capital!
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        Is it their fault that they bombed the Japanese on every island in the Stone Age and did not want shells and bombs but took care of personnel?

        In order not to spare the shells, they must be done.
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        PS I do not belittle the feat of my people, only he did it not because of, but against all odds.

        No excuses, just belittling the feat of the people.
        1. Eugeniy_369
          Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 15: 06
          -1
          Quote: Setrac
          No excuses, just belittling the feat of the people.

          My dear sir You I didn’t drink vodka You they poked me. Looks like little bastards stuffed and pull up the culture forgotten.
          No excuses

          Look at the thing between the grunts .. hi
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 12 December 2013 16: 45
            0
            Quote: Eugeniy_369
            Looks like little bastards stuffed and pull up the culture forgotten.

            And there is nothing to talk about with the enemies of our state about culture. Today you praise the USA, and tomorrow you will go to their service.
            1. Eugeniy_369
              Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 17: 26
              0
              Quote: Setrac
              And there is nothing to talk about with the enemies of our state about culture.

              Hmmm .... I cut it so I cut it ... I immediately hung the label to someone who thinks differently, well, like they did it in 37 with qualified engineers and designers (and then they collected it by sharashka ...)
              Quote: Setrac
              Today you praise the USA, and tomorrow you will go to their service.

              Dear comrade Chief flywheel следователь Setrac! Please give an example where I praise the US discussing this article.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 12 December 2013 17: 29
                -3
                Quote: Eugeniy_369
                Dear Comrade Chief Inspector Setrac! Please give an example where I praise the US discussing this article.

                You defend those who praise, why get involved at all? This entire article is an ode to America.
                Quote: Eugeniy_369
                Chief Investigator

                But would you not go dear?
                1. Eugeniy_369
                  Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 19: 56
                  -2
                  Quote: Setrac
                  You protect those who praise

                  You are lying, did not protect anyone.
                  Quote: Setrac
                  why did you get involved?

                  And this is yours dog investigation business? Count the boogers in your nose, and without you I’ll figure out where to go.
                  Quote: Setrac
                  This entire article is an ode to America.

                  This article is about how Americans worked and what they did.
                  Quote: Setrac
                  But would you not go dear?

                  When there are no other arguments and facts, only the "famous phrase" byd hamota like you and can answer hi .
            2. atalef
              atalef 12 December 2013 20: 57
              +1
              Quote: Setrac
              Today you praise the USA, and tomorrow you will go to their service.

              Have you been diagnosed yet? belay
              1. Eugeniy_369
                Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 21: 34
                +2
                Hello, Alexander hi .
                Quote: atalef
                Have you been diagnosed yet?

                Alas crying I don’t even know what to do ...
                After my response to your comment I feel and nationality will change ...
                Yes, in principle, here one has already called it "parkhaty" ...
                Little by little on the site "bazaar culture" mixed with total suspicion and defamation of dissidents is spreading ...
                What is it for?
                1. cdrt
                  cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 24
                  -1
                  Quote: Eugeniy_369
                  Hello, Alexander hi .
                  Quote: atalef
                  Have you been diagnosed yet?

                  Alas crying I don’t even know what to do ...
                  After my response to your comment I feel and nationality will change ...
                  Yes, in principle, here one has already called it "parkhaty" ...
                  Little by little on the site "bazaar culture" mixed with total suspicion and defamation of dissidents is spreading ...
                  What is it for?



                  Well you are wrong laughing
                  Yes, the Stalinists, Russian fascists, and sometimes Rodnovers laughing there are many, but their percentage is getting smaller according to my observations
                  1. Eugeniy_369
                    Eugeniy_369 13 December 2013 08: 37
                    0
                    Quote: cdrt
                    their percentage is getting smaller according to my observations

                    You know, I cheto everything
                    Stalinists, Russian fascists, and sometimes Rodnovers
                    come across crying .
                    1. Beck
                      Beck 13 December 2013 09: 58
                      0
                      Quote: cdrt
                      Yes, the Stalinists, Russian fascists, and sometimes Rodnovers are many here, but their percentage is becoming less according to my observations


                      Quote: Eugeniy_369
                      You know, I cheto everything
                      Stalinists, Russian fascists, and sometimes Rodnovers come across


                      I dare to confirm the observation of cdrt and dispel doubts Eugeniy_369, Undoubtedly primitive nationalists, Stalinists, Russian fascists and their likeness is becoming smaller. They do not withstand objectivity, historicity, logic.

                      An example of this page. If there were a lot of them, then you would have long had double-digit red numbers of negation would have burned. And so, the unambiguous red numbers are more for Setrac and others like him. Yes, and once I had on my shoulder straps two skulls flaunted when there were a lot of Natsiks.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 12 December 2013 16: 06
          -5
          You will be reminded of which ass was the Racean Empire in the late 19 century.
          1. cdrt
            cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 26
            +1
            Quote: EvilLion
            You will be reminded of which ass was the Racean Empire in the late 19 century.


            Share - in which. With numbers only and links please
      4. EvilLion
        EvilLion 12 December 2013 15: 59
        +2
        The problem is not that the authorities of the USSR lie, but that you are simply not so competent in this matter that you are not able to understand this simple truth. Well, wars do not start from a floundering bay, and it’s not so easy to completely prevent the Germans, after a preventive strike, if it were possible, the United States would have been allied to the Germans and now no one would remember about the Jews and the firebox of the localhost
        1. Eugeniy_369
          Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 20: 08
          0
          Quote: EvilLion
          The problem is not that the authorities of the USSR lie, but that you are simply not so competent in this matter that you are not able to understand this simple truth

          What is the truth "you are our competence" sick?
          Quote: EvilLion
          Well wars do not start with floundering bay

          But where did I write about the war from the floundering bay?
          Quote: EvilLion
          after a preemptive strike

          About what preventive strike "Mr. Competence" I wrote?
          Why do you attribute your gag to me?
          PS
          You will be reminded of which ass was the Racean Empire in the late 19 century.

          I respect the history of my Motherland, no matter how it is called at some times. And I do not dare distorting its name. But you probably rudeness, ignorance "competence" does not allow writing "Russian Empire"
    2. Eugeniy_369
      Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 12: 11
      0
      Quote: Interface
      The author needed to write about how ...

      The author wrote what he wanted, we evaluate his article, put + or -. You would not advise, but you would take it yourself and engage in the epistolary genre, and would describe
      moved to the Urals, about how people for the Victory there died from exhaustion, how they worked for the Motherland 15 hours a day without a break!

      And we will appreciate your work.
      PS "P ... th, do not roll bags." hi
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 12 December 2013 14: 31
        +1
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        And we will appreciate your work.
        PS "P ... th, do not roll bags."

        I repeat)))
        Old motivator)))
    3. Prometey
      Prometey 12 December 2013 12: 21
      0
      Quote: Interface
      And we have a fashion to look at sophisticated and sleek American women posing for a positive photo.

      Ordinary aunts, well, maybe a little and posing. And so they really have women in large numbers in the assembly shops and worked in shipyards. Only they could do without child labor in the industry.
      1. explorer
        explorer 12 December 2013 13: 34
        -1
        so they came out of the "Great Depression" due to this. practiced a comfortable life in the 20s - playing on the stock exchange, etc.
      2. explorer
        explorer 12 December 2013 13: 34
        0
        so they came out of the "Great Depression" due to this. practiced a comfortable life in the 20s - playing on the stock exchange, etc.
      3. ImPerts
        ImPerts 12 December 2013 14: 40
        -1
        Ordinary?
        Made up and sleek?
        Here about the USSR they shout that the dominance of ideology and so on. But the Americans knew that in the future, they would not evaluate the threshing floor, but the candy.
        Realities are worse.
        1. ImPerts
          ImPerts 12 December 2013 14: 42
          0
          This is not a war, this is the time of the Great Depression (the period of the "Holodomor, loved by liberals."
      4. ImPerts
        ImPerts 12 December 2013 14: 45
        +1
        The Great Depression. Hunger. Stalin is to blame. He brought the Americans.
      5. kaktus
        kaktus 12 December 2013 14: 58
        0
        Read J. London "The Apostate" - capitalism could not do without child labor.
        1. Orang
          Orang 12 December 2013 20: 17
          +1
          Quote: kaktus
          Read J. London "The Apostate" - capitalism could not do without child labor.

          A completely different time.
    4. EvilLion
      EvilLion 12 December 2013 15: 56
      +1
      And no one is agitating, just the Americans were building factories while the RKMP (Rasea that we lost) took out the last bread, and their own peasants were hungry and illiterate.
      I am waiting for an article about the anti-records of Russia in the WWI, although I myself am thinking of writing it.
      1. Eugeniy_369
        Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 20: 21
        0
        Quote: EvilLion
        I’m waiting for an article about anti-records of Russia in the WWI, although I’m thinking of writing it myself

        We look forward to seeing this great work in your performance, Mr. "Competence"!
        PS The competitor in writing probably minus, well so I leveled wink .
  • cdrt
    cdrt 13 December 2013 01: 35
    +1
    Quote: My address
    So we need to act this way in industry and in everything else.


    It will not work, this is a military mobilization of the economy.
    And now it’s kind of like a war.
    At least total.
    The economy of the USSR seems to have been developing along a mobilization path for a rather long time, it has come where it has come.
  • Santa Fe
    12 December 2013 08: 40
    11
    2700 km of roadway, 5 mountain passes, 133 bridge. Wild sparsely populated, cold and permafrost. Despite the obvious difficulties, the construction of the Alaskan Highway took less than eight months.

    The first USS Casablanca aircraft carrier (CVE-55) entered service on July 8 of the year 1943. The latter is USS Munda (CVE-104) - 8 July 1944. Henry Kaiser kept his promise.


    Just a joke against the backdrop of our dull talking room
    1. Interface
      Interface 12 December 2013 10: 33
      -1
      Very objectively he compared: the victorious years 43-45, and today's Russia! Well, master hamster propaganda !! Capitalists should have looked into the mouth less in the 90s, maybe they kept more. "" ah they bl - di zaputinskie "" Russia is our "liberated" razaliiii !!!! " it was then that the entire industry was sold to the side. And right now, try to re-create.?
    2. Eugeniy_369
      Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 10: 36
      +4
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Just a joke against the backdrop of our dull talking room

      So it's professional wink , chat the topic, take all the evidence away from you to the side. etc.
    3. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 12 December 2013 11: 04
      +8
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Just a joke against the backdrop of our dull talking room

      Yes there is such an anecdote. Everything is very slow, too many intermediaries.
      But I'm interested in what would be the feats if the Americans had to work for a hump of bread?
      1. Magellan
        Magellan 12 December 2013 11: 24
        +1
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        But I'm interested in what would be the feats if the Americans had to work for a hump of bread?

        The question is WHY Soviet citizens had to work for a slice of bread

        The population of the USSR in June 1941 was 196 million people.
        40 million fell into occupation - on the other hand, they can be deleted from the list of mouths
        In the army - 10 million people.
        Around is a gigantic country: the areas NOT affected by the war are the Volga region (N. Novgorod, Samara region), Tatarstan, Bashkiria, the Southern Urals, and the South. Siberia and the Far East, the Vologda region (in Volgda, at least potatoes and beets can be grown), something came from the Caucasus and Wed. Asia (at least meat and fruits)
        + Lend-Lease assistance: 4 million tons of canned goods, chocolate, etc. high-energy products

        The question is why the USSR could not feed itself and sat hungry ???
        1. washi
          washi 12 December 2013 11: 39
          +7
          Quote: Magellan
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          But I'm interested in what would be the feats if the Americans had to work for a hump of bread?

          The question is WHY Soviet citizens had to work for a slice of bread
          The population of the USSR in June 1941 was 196 million people.
          40 million fell into occupation - on the other hand, they can be deleted from the list of mouths
          In the army - 10 million people.
          Around is a gigantic country: the areas NOT affected by the war are the Volga region (N. Novgorod, Samara region), Tatarstan, Bashkiria, the Southern Urals, and the South. Siberia and the Far East, the Vologda region (in Volgda, at least potatoes and beets can be grown), something came from the Caucasus and Wed. Asia (at least meat and fruits)
          + Lend-Lease assistance: 4 million tons of canned goods, chocolate, etc. high-energy products
          The question is why the USSR could not feed itself and sat hungry ???

          and who stayed in the village? Men in the army. My grandmother became a combine operator. Tractors and cars were seized for the army, which affected productivity.
          I don’t understand only one thing: why were the “culture” workers evacuated and put on rations? Here's someone to the front line and to the machine, to the fields. So that everyone would feel on themselves and then not write libels about our country.
          1. Prometey
            Prometey 12 December 2013 13: 12
            +1
            Quote: Vasya
            My grandmother became a combine operator.

            Combines in the USSR in the 40s? Where from? My grandmother in a village in the Ryazan region before the war, both plowed on horses and cleaned in hand bread, much less during the war.
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 12 December 2013 16: 13
              0
              Yes, and the harvester was already not uncommon, just some like you just do not understand what collectivization and industrialization are.
          2. atalef
            atalef 12 December 2013 21: 02
            0
            Quote: Vasya
            and who stayed in the village? Men in the army. My grandmother became a combine operator.

            Have you read the article carefully? In the USA, before the war, women did not work at all, they were housewives. In the war, they also got up to the machine.

            Quote: Vasya
            Tractors and cars were seized for the army, which affected productivity.

            In America, during the war, a huge amount of goods and materials were not available to civilian industries. and to buy a car was practically unrealistic
            1. ImPerts
              ImPerts 12 December 2013 21: 09
              0
              Quote: atalef
              Have you read the article carefully? In the USA, before the war, women did not work at all, they were housewives. In the war, they also got up to the machine.
              1. atalef
                atalef 12 December 2013 21: 59
                0
                A picture of a beautiful Chose. read the signature under it, then speak.
                1. ImPerts
                  ImPerts 13 December 2013 06: 24
                  +1
                  Thanks, read it. Girl 10 years. 1910 year. There were pictures and 1916 of the year. And many more children. They did not work, so dabbled on the field or at the machine.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 13 December 2013 13: 04
                    0
                    Quote: ImPerts
                    Thanks, read it. Girl 10 years. 1910 year. There were pictures and 1916 of the year. And many more children. They did not work, so dabbled on the field or at the machine.

                    Everything worked at home and family farms - this is understandable, but for factories. American factories massively went only during the war years. It is a fact, it is useless to challenge it
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. ImPerts
                      ImPerts 13 December 2013 14: 40
                      +1
                      May bi, mb, we will consider this home production)))
                      And this too:
                      The peeling factory. Seaford, Delaware, 1910
          3. cdrt
            cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 30
            0
            Quote: Vasya
            I don’t understand only one thing: why were the “culture” workers evacuated and put on rations? Here's someone to the front line and to the machine, to the fields. So that everyone would feel on themselves and then not write libels about our country.


            My dear, since you do not understand, do not try.
            All the same, it won’t work, only the mysteries in the world will increase laughing
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 12 December 2013 12: 38
          +6
          Quote: Magellan

          Around is a gigantic country: the areas NOT affected by the war are the Volga region (N. Novgorod, Samara region), Tatarstan, Bashkiria, the Southern Urals, and the South. Siberia and the Far East, the Vologda region (in Volgda, at least potatoes and beets can be grown), something came from the Caucasus and Wed. Asia (at least meat and fruits)

          You will be surprised, but the first Europeans who landed on the American continent were dying of hunger, and there are such fertile lands around.
          1. Magellan
            Magellan 12 December 2013 12: 50
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            You will be surprised, but the first Europeans who landed on the American continent were dying of hunger, and there are such fertile lands around.

            But what about the five-year industrialization-collectivization, which are so proud of the supporters of I.V. Stalin? 100 thousandth tractor, collective farms, ...
            1. Taoist
              Taoist 12 December 2013 13: 25
              11
              Well, answering your questions asked with an initially given negative accent is a thankless task - but I will try to answer not for you (you have already decided everything for yourself) but for those who will read it.

              1) The laws of economics are as immutable as the laws of physics - no one could ignore them. It took an incredible concentration of resources in order to "run a segment of the century" within 10 years. But a person does not know how to "multiply on command" - it means that in order to obtain the required concentration of "human resource" in industry, it had to be removed from somewhere (removed from agriculture - by very cruel methods, but there were no others) It is worth remembering that such "removal "happened during the" industrial revolutions "in all countries of the world. And the methods were no less brutal. (Remember at least the "enclosure" in England) But no country in the world faced such a temporary time trouble. And in no country in the world did the "industrial revolution" have an alternative to the complete destruction of statehood.
              2) It is impossible to completely compensate for the "lost hands" in agriculture even due to its "industrialization" - well, the agricultural production cycle also does not depend on any "will of the management" - it is tied to weather and climatic zones as well as to breeding cycle of animals. How many zones were there in the USSR where it was possible to conduct productive agriculture? And in a war?
              3) Do not forget that even in the absence of a shortage of raw materials, food, skilled labor, even the United States was forced to resort to a “mobilization economy” and did not avoid creating “labor armies” where people worked literally for a bowl of soup.

              So, discussing any "economic miracle" - I recommend that you study the issue more closely and evaluate it "in the context of time, initial conditions, and a possible" decision tree ".
              1. EvilLion
                EvilLion 12 December 2013 16: 19
                +1
                When they tell me about the tough methods of removing workers for industrialization, I want to laugh. Apparently leaving 85% of the country's population poking around on their land, so that a third didn’t even pay taxes, because she couldn’t feed herself, is it not tough? And then they gave us a tractor, in the city you want to work, you want to study, just to do something useful. Apparently pulling an unwashed peasant out of a rickety shack, thatched, with a toilet where you sit, and turning him into a skilled worker or engineer, is a terrible crime.
                1. cdrt
                  cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 35
                  -1
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  When they tell me about the tough methods of removing workers for industrialization, I want to laugh. Apparently leaving 85% of the country's population poking around on their land, so that a third didn’t even pay taxes, because she couldn’t feed herself, is it not tough? And then they gave us a tractor, in the city you want to work, you want to study, just to do something useful. Apparently pulling an unwashed peasant out of a rickety shack, thatched, with a toilet where you sit, and turning him into a skilled worker or engineer, is a terrible crime.


                  Here is a cool logic.
                  Those millions of peasants who perished in collectivization are not considered - this is probably a chip.
                  But the rest apparently became better (what about labor productivity in the countryside at the end of collectivization, a year like this in 1932-1933)?

                  Why then be surprised that up to 1 million Russians and tens of thousands of Cossacks fought on the side of the natural enemy of the Russian people (and this is generally a sub-ethnic group that created the Russian Empire).
                  Faithful go tovarisch.
                  1. ImPerts
                    ImPerts 13 December 2013 06: 33
                    0
                    Keep up the good work, sir ... Write about the flowers and bread and salt with which the Nazis and especially the "SS" were greeted.
                    And add for atalefА that hundreds of thousands of Jews fought in the Wehrmacht and nearby. And about the canonical picture with a representative of the German race named Werner G., recall. First we found out that there is not only blue-eyedness, but also ... an ass. And in the end, and ... (it seems select).
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 12 December 2013 13: 27
              +4
              Quote: Magellan
              But what about the five-year industrialization-collectivization, which are so proud of the supporters of I.V. Stalin? 100 thousandth tractor, collective farms, ...

              The most developed western regions were hit by the Wehrmacht.
          2. Prometey
            Prometey 12 December 2013 13: 16
            +3
            Quote: Setrac
            You will be surprised, but the first Europeans who landed on the American continent were dying of hunger

            But our people from time immemorial lived in one place and did not land request
          3. Orang
            Orang 12 December 2013 20: 41
            +2
            Quote: Setrac
            You will be surprised, but the first Europeans who landed on the American continent were dying of hunger, and there are such fertile lands around.

            In New England. There were solid forests then, and now there are many. I read that the soil there is skinny, solid stones. Other colonies in Virginia did not suffer from hunger. Then the prairies were mastered, there were no problems with grain and meat at all, not without reason the American recruit of the 19th century was the tallest, in comparison with the recruits of other countries. I saw somewhere a table, ours among the Europeans of that period were almost the smallest.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 12 December 2013 20: 45
              0
              Quote: Orang
              In New England.

              Well, this New England is much more favorable than central Russia, the Volga region or Siberia.
              1. Santa Fe
                12 December 2013 21: 09
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                Well, this New England is much more favorable than central Russia, the Volga

                How did you define it
            2. Beck
              Beck 12 December 2013 20: 48
              +1
              Quote: Orang
              not without reason the American recruit of the 19th century was the tallest, in comparison with the recruits of other countries. I saw somewhere a table, ours among the Europeans of that period were almost the smallest.


              How dare you, how did you manage, who thought you up? Beat the sore spots of unconditional nationalism.
          4. atalef
            atalef 12 December 2013 21: 03
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            You’ll be surprised, but the first Europeans who landed on the American continent were dying of hunger, and there are such fertile lands around

            It wasn’t that. several colonies do not count (caught in crop failure or landed in places unsuitable for agriculture)
        3. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 12 December 2013 12: 39
          +4
          Quote: Magellan
          The question is why the USSR could not feed itself and sat hungry ???

          I was generally interested in American labor exploits for a slice of bread. And you ask another question.
          1. Magellan
            Magellan 12 December 2013 12: 53
            0
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            I was generally interested in American labor exploits for a slice of bread. And you ask another question.

            The question is WHY Soviet citizens had to work for a slice of bread

            this very problem is the key to your question about how the Yankees would work for a pink salmon. In any case, they would sit full and produce mountains of equipment, while they managed to feed and shoe the whole world.
            .
            - Lend-Lease 15 million pairs of boots, this is a terrible figure. Otherwise, they would have fought barefoot
            1. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets 12 December 2013 13: 11
              +4
              Quote: Magellan
              as if the Yankees were working for a humpback. In any case, they would sit full and produce mountains of equipment, while they managed to feed and shoe the whole world.

              Remember the Great Depression and millions of "well-fed" Americans anyway?
              1. Magellan
                Magellan 12 December 2013 13: 18
                -3
                Quote: Vladimirets
                Remember the Great Depression and millions of "well-fed" Americans anyway?

                In any case, well-fed


                Queue for bread in New York, 1930

                The state fed citizens. In 1930, an ambitious project began - all the unemployed were sent to the construction of roads. Result - the appearance of a grid of famous highways that connected the whole country. Worked for bread + symbolic salary. But zak HOW rabrotali
                1. Vladimirets
                  Vladimirets 12 December 2013 13: 36
                  +5
                  Quote: Magellan
                  Worked for bread + symbolic salary. But zak HOW rabrotali

                  I got up and bowed my head respectfully, I immediately remembered the lines from "The Defense of Fort McHenry". wink
                2. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 12 December 2013 14: 33
                  +3
                  Quote: Magellan
                  Queue for bread in New York, 1930

                  And millions of starvation were also? Stalin lifted the country after the Civil War, and this with the strong opposition of permanent revolutionaries. By the forties, everything had just settled down, and again the war, and the blow fell on the most developed areas. Industry was built almost from scratch, in unsuitable places, in an environment in which Henry Ford would have shot himself from the assigned tasks. And ours, washing themselves with blood, cleaved. I would look at the pendos working on the machine when -20 in the workshop.
                  PS I would like to repeat the question of a taxi driver from Brother 2- Where is your homeland, son?
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 12 December 2013 21: 10
                    +1
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Stalin lifted the country after the Civil War, and this with strong opposition from permanent revolutionaries

                    which arose because of this Bolshevik gang

                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    By the forties we had only settled down

                    What settled down? Maybe the peasants received passports? Or was there no 37th year?

                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Industry was built almost from scratch, in unsuitable places, in an environment in which Henry Ford would have shot himself from the tasks

                    Igor, the states built the military industry from scratch. before the war, it simply was not there. in contrast to the USSR - which had forged so many weapons by the beginning of the war. how many in the whole world have not been put together


                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    . I would look at the pendos working on the machine when -20 in the workshop.

                    Yes, they worked, everywhere they worked. And they worked in Alaska, and in the USSR there weren’t -20 workshops, especially not all year round
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 12 December 2013 21: 28
                      +1
                      Hi Sanya. hi
                      Quote: atalef
                      which arose because of this Bolshevik gang
                      Will we discuss the national composition of the gang? A sore subject for you and for me.
                      Quote: atalef
                      What settled down? Maybe the peasants received passports? Or was there no 37th year?

                      It’s not a matter of passports, it was a binding to the earth, not backwardness. Industry settled down, agriculture. And the 37th, so Stalin finished off that gang of followers of Leiba Trotsky. Look at the number of people executed, there are not so many of them who are charged with Stalin. The number of victims is swollen, as in the Holocaust. And this is due to the fact that for the most part they were from that very people. My opinion. hi
                      Quote: atalef
                      Igor, the states built the military industry from scratch

                      Not from scratch, and in greenhouse conditions. And there were many times more resources, and freedom of maneuver by these resources.
                      P.S. You just woke up, and my name is already to sleep.
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 12 December 2013 21: 49
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Will we discuss the national composition of the gang? A sore subject for you and for me.

                        And what. Does the presence of Jews make all Russian and Georgian Bolsheviks monarchists? Your beloved Stalin, was the same Bolshevik. even more so, the militants traded on the exes

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        It’s not a matter of passports, it was a binding to the earth, not backwardness

                        it was socialist serfdom on earth, which the same Bolsheviks took away from them and forcing them to work for sticks of workdays

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And the 37th, so Stalin finished off that gang of followers of Leiba Trotsky.

                        And now I understand why my great-grandfather. a shoemaker from Torzhok was planted (although his article was espionage in favor of several states) FROM TRADE AND BOOT BOOKS, but for some reason they did not mention Trotsky

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        . Look at the number of people shot, there are not so many of them, how many are charged with Stalin

                        Maybe not much for you. but for me, one of my great-grandfathers died after 2 years of the camp --- through chur.

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        The number of victims is swollen, as in the Holocaust.

                        if . that there, that there was one victim — an innocent one — is already a lot. Maybe for you human life is not worth much - I think differently

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Not from scratch, and in greenhouse conditions.

                        From scratch, but the conditions were not the worst. USSR from scratch, but in poor conditions
                        approximately equal in general

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And there were many times more resources, and freedom of maneuver by these resources.

                        So what now? It is foolish to compare little comparable things. In one Bolshevik system, in another capitalism.
                        There, half of the people here still insist that they live poorly because of the civil and Great Patriotic War, and that during this time all the countries that fought in the Great Patriotic War, that were at the level of primitives and colonies, rose and overtook during this time 10 times winners --- somehow forgotten.
                        It’s so convenient - we live poorly - the culprit is to blame. WWII, Yeltsin (by the way, who departed 13 years ago). and of course, the Jews - who left the bulk 10-13 years ago, but still can’t get to a brighter future, and again,
                        Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, speaking at a government meeting after the announcement of the President’s Address to the Federal Assembly, noted a deterioration in the dynamics of most macroeconomic indicators, reports RBC

                        And everything is the same. Well, they interfere, well, they keep and do not give, and maybe they would just turn around at full strength, Yes, that's just a revolution - damn it (95 years ago). Yes, and the Second World War 70 years ago ended --- well, they keep a pancake and do not give life. belay
                      2. atalef
                        atalef 13 December 2013 13: 09
                        +1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Will we discuss the national composition of the gang? A sore subject for you and for me.

                        Absolutely not sick for me and with equal pleasure I would have put against the wall that Trotsky and Lenin, that Zinoviev and Stalin, that Kaganovich and Molotov. One Bolshevik gang, cannibals who enslaved and humiliated a great country, slowed down its development for 70 years (and many countries of the world including) and the echoes of this are reaping and will reap now and for a long time to come. Thank God that for the current generation the name Lenin means nothing
                    2. Setrac
                      Setrac 12 December 2013 21: 50
                      0
                      Quote: atalef
                      . And they worked in Alaska

                      Did you build factories in Alaska? What are these plants? Tank building, or are there planes, engines, cars?
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 12 December 2013 21: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Did you build factories in Alaska? What are these plants? Tank building, or are there planes, engines, cars?

                        And in the Central Asian republics, too, there has always been -20? Not a few enterprises were taken there too. Everywhere was hard. in America it can be easier in some ways. so they fought the same thing and could calmly say - Hitler is your problem, we have Japan, nevertheless they fought against Hitler and supplied land-lease, where thousands of civilian sailors died.
                      2. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 December 2013 22: 01
                        +1
                        Quote: atalef
                        Hitler is your problem

                        This problem was created by America, this is the problem of the USA that you dumped on the USSR. The United States took away colonies from European colonial powers, but what does the USSR have to do with it?
                      3. atalef
                        atalef 12 December 2013 22: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        This problem was created by America, this is the problem of the USA that you dumped on the USSR.

                        Of course they created it, for themselves. then to fight with him (although he did not attack America) fool

                        Quote: Setrac
                        The United States took away colonies from European colonial powers, but what does the USSR have to do with it?

                        Well, tell me whom he took and to whom he added. And the USSR, why did you help? Explain? And why did Stalin so ask America to open a second front and they agreed. A huge number of countries did not participate in the Great Patriotic War in any way, and they live. Ameika, why did you get into an unnecessary war? 9 like 0 They would sell weapons to both (Argentina beef). Well, show your talent.
                      4. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 December 2013 22: 39
                        0
                        Quote: atalef
                        Well, call from whom he took and to whom he added.

                        The British Empire, according to the results of the Second World War, virtually ceased to exist, turning into a loose community. Britain ceased to be a world leader, giving the championship to the United States.
                        Quote: atalef
                        But why did the USSR help? Explain? And why did Stalin so ask America to open a second front and they agreed.

                        So that the Japanese and German colonial empires did not appear.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Ameika why she climbed into an unnecessary war

                        VERY needed US war.
                      5. atalef
                        atalef 13 December 2013 13: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        The British Empire, according to the results of the Second World War, actually ceased to exist

                        And so America robbed Britain of its colony. fighting on her side belay fool

                        Quote: Setrac
                        So that the Japanese and German colonial empires did not appear.

                        Yes? And I thought because Japan attacked America - or is it the same as their order?
                        What about Germany? Why didn’t America enter the war with Germany in 1939?

                        Quote: Setrac
                        Ameika why she climbed into an unnecessary war
                        VERY needed US war.

                        you deny yourself. laughing
                      6. Setrac
                        Setrac 13 December 2013 14: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: atalef
                        And so America took

                        Quote: atalef
                        Yes?

                        Quote: atalef
                        Why didn’t America enter the war with Germany in 1939?

                        Stupid questions that you yourself can answer! You are not a Jew.
        4. cdrt
          cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 41
          0
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Quote: Magellan
          Queue for bread in New York, 1930

          And millions of starvation were also? Stalin lifted the country after the Civil War, and this with the strong opposition of permanent revolutionaries. By the forties, everything had just settled down, and again the war, and the blow fell on the most developed areas. Industry was built almost from scratch, in unsuitable places, in an environment in which Henry Ford would have shot himself from the assigned tasks. And ours, washing themselves with blood, cleaved. I would look at the pendos working on the machine when -20 in the workshop.
          PS I would like to repeat the question of a taxi driver from Brother 2- Where is your homeland, son?


          Hmm ... somehow half-asserted.
          Probably necessary.
          Stalin raised the country after a civilian one, which he and his comrades unfolded and in which he actively participated.
          He created industry, engineering and managerial personnel of which he and his comrades defeated and drove out of the country.
          You can add, created a science, the best shots of which he and his comrades from the country drove out (you can recall the philosophical ship for example).
          You can also recall shipbuilding, whose best heads then worked wonders in France and the USA (well, for the sake of contrast - barges flooded in the Gulf of Finland, Sevastopol Bay with naval officers)
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 12 December 2013 16: 22
        0
        And right next to the farmers, the crops were destroyed, so that prices could be boosted. Unexplained by migration, the demographic losses of the American famine exceed 7 million people. And the memories of Americans who died of hunger and grass-eaten in history also survived.

        But in general, yes, what else is needed for the bourgeoisie, besides those who are ready to build a bowl of bread, anything.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 12 December 2013 20: 41
    0
    Quote: Magellan
    Quote: saturn.mmm
    I was generally interested in American labor exploits for a slice of bread. And you ask another question.

    Quote: Magellan
    The question is WHY Soviet citizens had to work for a slice of bread

    Please tell me, is there a difference in these two questions or not?
    Quote: Magellan
    They would have sat full anyway.

    Yes of course.
    1. Santa Fe
      12 December 2013 21: 13
      +2
      Quote: saturn.mmm
      Yes of course.

      Mikhail, "Gone with the Winds" is a film about another, pre-industrial era. Events of the Civil War in the USA, 60s of the XIX century

      Other labor productivity, lack of modern varieties / fertilizers, mess of the civil war
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 13 December 2013 00: 03
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Mikhail, "Gone with the Winds" is a film about another, pre-industrial era. Events of the Civil War in the USA, 60s of the XIX century

        Oleg the events of the film, of course, during the civil war of the pre-industrial era, but the film was shot in 1939, like we have "Alexander Nevsky (1938)" - whoever comes to us with a sword will be killed by the sword.
        Symbols are.
        1. Santa Fe
          13 December 2013 00: 32
          +1
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          yes the movie was shot in 1939

          Everything is much simpler there))
          Margaret Mitchell wrote the book in 1936. This is not documentary, but fantasy on the topic of civil war.

          Selznick bought out the rights to film the book, which gained instant popularity - and by 1939 he had released an A film (the most popular plot and first-class Hollywood stars)
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 13 December 2013 12: 21
            0
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Everything is much simpler there.

            I will answer you like that.
            You can’t even imagine what significance the ruling elite attaches to Great American Mass Culture.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 12 December 2013 16: 11
    +1
    Bad to be an idiot, huh? The Tatars of those years, it is Kazan and wild Tatars around, who do not know the Russian language, almost 2 times more fell into the occupation. So good luck growing beets and potatoes in a clean field when there is not even a roof over your head. What is characteristic, even in such conditions the country did not have such hunger and thousands of corpses as in tsarist Russia every 2-3 of the year, and the soldier on the front line was always fed.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 48
      0
      Quote: EvilLion
      Bad to be an idiot, huh? The Tatars of those years, it is Kazan and wild Tatars around, who do not know the Russian language, almost 2 times more fell into the occupation. So good luck growing beets and potatoes in a clean field when there is not even a roof over your head. What is characteristic, even in such conditions the country did not have such hunger and thousands of corpses as in tsarist Russia every 2-3 of the year, and the soldier on the front line was always fed.


      Are you my friend where did you get this? Can you give numbers about Tataria of that time?
  • Eugeniy_369
    Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 11: 37
    0
    Quote: saturn.mmm
    But I'm interested in what would be the feats if the Americans had to work for a hump of bread?

    If only if .... History does not suffer a subjunctive mood!
    And who brought to the point that we performed labor deeds for a crust of bread? I don't think it's Americans. And there is no need to talk about the "treacherous attack".
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 12 December 2013 12: 40
      +1
      Quote: Eugeniy_369
      And who brought to the point that we performed labor deeds for a crust of bread? I don't think it's Americans. And there is no need to talk about the "treacherous attack".

      Revolution, intervention, and attack were treacherous, there was a nonaggression pact signed not under the king of peas, but just now.
    2. ben gun
      ben gun 12 December 2013 15: 26
      +1
      Quote: Eugeniy_369
      If only if .... History does not suffer a subjunctive mood!

      Finally! let's declare a maratorium on the subjunctive in historical disputes. as well as juggling all stripes and species.
  • kaktus
    kaktus 12 December 2013 08: 45
    +2
    Former Allies what
  • smart ass
    smart ass 12 December 2013 08: 55
    +3
    What do you say ... we have been building an atomic boat for 18 years ??))))
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 12 December 2013 09: 25
      +2
      Quote: Clever man
      What do you say ... we have been building an atomic boat for 18 years ??))))

      We have been building a nuclear submarine for 18 years, which, of course, is a lot. Just do not forget what a modern nuclear submarine and Liberty transport are. Old Russian boats can be built even faster.
      1. Beck
        Beck 12 December 2013 09: 37
        +3
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Just do not forget what a modern nuclear submarine and Liberty transport are. Old Russian boats can be built even faster.


        Yes, rooks can be built faster.

        But, a modern aircraft carrier, in which at least 10 submarines, Americans build in 2,5 years, and not in 18 years.
        1. Samuray
          Samuray 12 December 2013 14: 54
          0
          Plus, Beck! all to the point! Unfortunately, in Russia no one canceled the pre-release /
        2. Samuray
          Samuray 12 December 2013 14: 54
          +1
          Plus, Beck! all to the point! Unfortunately, in Russia no one canceled the pre-release /
        3. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 12 December 2013 15: 58
          0
          Quote: Beck
          But, a modern aircraft carrier, in which at least 10 submarines, Americans build in 2,5 years, and not in 18 years.

          With your mouth, yes honey would slurp. With the printing press on, it would be possible to build faster. Mattress covers burst.
          1. Beck
            Beck 12 December 2013 16: 30
            -1
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            With the printing press on, it would be possible to build faster. Mattress covers burst.


            To say this, one must have no concept at all about the currency, even superficial ones.
            1. ImPerts
              ImPerts 12 December 2013 17: 35
              +2
              We do not have. The Chinese are left to present US debt obligations and the government of the most powerful power in the world will be forced to start a war. Or recognize the impossibility of payment of these obligations. Which option will be selected?
          2. Samuray
            Samuray 12 December 2013 16: 41
            0
            What is stopping Russia from turning on its printing press?
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 12 December 2013 19: 55
              0
              Quote: Samuray
              What is stopping Russia from turning on its printing press?

              At the moment, a sense of self-preservation.
            2. cdrt
              cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 50
              0
              Quote: Samuray
              What is stopping Russia from turning on its printing press?


              What prevents?
              Well, probably a proverb - the god of horns does not give a vigorous cow laughing
              Who controls world trade there?
              Actually this is the answer
          3. Samuray
            Samuray 12 December 2013 16: 41
            +1
            What is stopping Russia from turning on its printing press?
      2. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 12 December 2013 11: 21
        +3
        Quote: Vladimirets
        We have been building a nuclear submarine for 18 years, which, of course, is a lot. Just do not forget what a modern nuclear submarine and Liberty transport are. Old Russian boats can be built even faster.

        The pace of construction of the nuclear submarine pr.941 "Severstal" in the USSR
        TK-20
        Severstal 727 January 6, 1987-bookmark; July 1988 - launching; September 4, 1989-adopted. displacement of 48000 tons
  • Eugeniy_369
    Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 09: 07
    +7
    Well ... Article is good +.
    Industrial muscles for IIMB Americans pumped up impressive what .
    Where did the samurai jump ...
    The USA was the first to undergo industrialization and by the beginning of the XNUMXth century was the most industrially developed state

    So this is only their merit, they themselves tried.
    US industrial areas were not ruined. All the necessary resources, the best engineering staff and a highly skilled workforce were available

    I agree the country was not ravaged, but only highly skilled workers and engineers themselves would not appear; they had to be trained. So this is the merit of the Americans themselves. They created an education system and provided industry with a trained workforce. In the USSR, too, I think they followed this path, but there were, so to speak, "local nuances" and also "excesses on the ground" .....
    In short, what happened it happened, but the war was extended. As this is another question.
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 12 December 2013 11: 24
      0
      Quote: Eugeniy_369
      I agree the country was not ruined, but only highly skilled workers and engineers themselves did not appear they had to be trained.

      Engineers were kindly provided by Hitler from Europe, and before that, from post-revolutionary Russia, the Communists.
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 12 December 2013 12: 14
        +1
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        Engineers were kindly provided by Hitler from Europe, and before that, from post-revolutionary Russia, the Communists.

        You exaggerate their role. Yes, their contribution is noticeable even from afar, but in% they were few and their absence would not particularly affect the result.
        1. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 12 December 2013 23: 51
          +2
          Quote: Nayhas
          You exaggerate their role. Yes, their contribution is noticeable even from afar, but in% they were few and their absence would not particularly affect the result.

          Einstein came to America in 1933 as Hitler came to power, then launched the Manhattan project.
          The secret project, which started in 1939, included many large scientists who emigrated from Germany (Frisch, Bethe, Sylard, Fuchs, Teller, Bloch and others), as well as Niels Bohr, who was taken out of Denmark occupied by Germany, as well as the Italian Fermi .
          The result of all this, I hope you know. There was also German Von Braun.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 12 December 2013 12: 43
      +3
      Quote: Eugeniy_369
      So this is the merit of the Americans themselves.

      Colonial politics, concentration of resources - these words don't tell you anything? Half of the world worked so that the United States could show its "industrial muscles".
      1. Magellan
        Magellan 12 December 2013 12: 54
        0
        Quote: Setrac
        Half the world worked

        For example
        Announce a list of half the world indicating exactly what those countries helped the Americans.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 12 December 2013 13: 29
          0
          Quote: Magellan
          For example
          Announce a list of half the world indicating exactly what those countries helped the Americans.

          For example, all countries of both America.
          1. Magellan
            Magellan 12 December 2013 14: 05
            +1
            Quote: Setrac
            For example, all countries of both America.

            and what could help the 10 millionth Canada, where even the engineering corps of the US Army built roads?
            beggar mexico?
            Brazil jungle? raw materials? Well, all industrial countries used raw materials appendages - the Germans dragged ore from Sweden and Norway, Britain - from their colonies around the world. USSR - received a land lease

            what's the tweak for the yankees here?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 12 December 2013 16: 48
              -1
              Quote: Magellan
              and how could 10 millionth Canada help

              I’ll draw your attention to the fact that, for example, in Saudi Arabia there are also 10 million people! Resources, what else? And in the same Canada there are many of them.
      2. Eugeniy_369
        Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 16: 05
        +2
        Quote: Setrac
        Half of the world worked so that the United States could show its "industrial muscles".

        I don’t understand anyone. Do you envy? Or come from anger with bile? Or maybe you were hunchbacked by them too?
        What prevented our leadership from forcing all countries of Eastern Europe to plow themselves after the war? But alas, everything turned out the other way around, the USSR sponsored them (and not only) with oil, gas, wood, weapons, etc. yes, so far they owe us nothing like that, but the sense is zero
        Russia and Cuba signed an agreement to write off $ 29 billion of Cuban debt to the USSR. According to the document, Cuba will pay $ 3,2 billion over 10 years with a write-off of $ 29 billion. Now the agreement is to be approved by the State Duma.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 12 December 2013 16: 52
          +1
          Quote: Eugeniy_369
          I don’t understand anyone. Do you envy? Or come from anger with bile? Or maybe you were hunchbacked by them too?

          It’s not envy, and it’s not bile and it doesn’t matter who I hunch over, it doesn’t affect this topic, these are your arguments from the fact that the normal arguments are over.
          You and others like you present what is actually a US crime as an achievement. You write about the achievements of the United States in World War II, but do not say that the United States is the main organizer of this very world war. Yes, even if they are three times hardworking, this does not justify the crimes of the United States as the organizer of WWII.
          1. Eugeniy_369
            Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 17: 14
            +1
            Quote: Setrac
            these are your arguments from the fact that the normal arguments are over.

            Let me ask, the arguments in favor of what I have ended?
            Quote: Setrac
            You write about the achievements of the United States in World War II,

            Where did I write this?
            Quote: Setrac
            The United States is the main organizer of this very world war.

            I don’t have such knowledge as you (who incited someone, someone for whose money ...), but I know one World War II began on September 1, 1939 with the German attack on Poland. And not the USA but Germany attacked my country. If you want to challenge this, but apparently the hypothesis is more interesting to you.
            You and your kind present as an achievement what is actually a U.S. crime

            Apparently, it's hard for you to live in a country where there are only shpiens, hirelings and other "fifth column" ...
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 12 December 2013 17: 22
              0
              Quote: Eugeniy_369
              Let me ask, the arguments in favor of what I have ended?

              Quote: Eugeniy_369
              Where did I write this?

              Why then got into a conversation?
              Quote: Eugeniy_369
              I don’t have such knowledge as you in this matter (who incited someone so, someone for whose money ... but I know one World War II began on September 1, 1939, the German attack on Poland.

              World War II began with the Japanese attack on China. Europeans need to be more modest, they are not the navel of the earth, and only a small pimple.
              1. Eugeniy_369
                Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 20: 40
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                Why then got into a conversation?

                What talk miracle? It is you who are commenting on my posts, but I am responding.
                Or is it already a paronoid persecution mania?
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 12 December 2013 20: 46
                  0
                  Quote: Eugeniy_369
                  What conversation is a miracle? It is you who are commenting on my posts, but I am responding.
                  Or is it already a paronoid persecution mania?

                  Why then do you go to the refusal?
        2. ImPerts
          ImPerts 12 December 2013 17: 37
          +1
          For Setrac
          Leave the hamster alone. He played Civilization and knows everything.
    3. cdrt
      cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 54
      0
      Quote: Eugeniy_369
      I agree the country was not ravaged, but only highly skilled workers and engineers themselves would not appear; they had to be trained. So this is the merit of the Americans themselves. They created an education system and provided industry with a trained workforce. In the USSR, too, I think they followed this path, but there were, so to speak, "local nuances" and also "excesses on the ground" .....
      In short, what happened it happened, but the war was extended. As this is another question.


      They created not only an education system that provides the necessary training for a qualified workforce, but also a climate where private initiative, entrepreneurship, and invention developed.
      It is no accident that the conveyor was invented in the USA as a symbol of industrial production.
      Well ... and they also created a country in which millions of people, both poor and uneducated, and talented, educated, WANTED to leave, live, work in it.
  • Beck
    Beck 12 December 2013 09: 15
    +5
    How did a country with a population of 130 million people produce such an incredible amount of equipment during the war years? 5 million cars and trucks alone, more than in all countries of the world combined. Focus has a simple explanation: The USA FIRST went through industrialization and by the beginning of the XNUMXth century were the MOST industrially developed state.

    Here it is the reason for the wealth of the Americas. Persistent LABOR of workers and ENTREPRENEURSHIP businessmen. And then Urashniki, without logic, under the influence of the remnants of Soviet propaganda, all yell that the United States was enriched only during the war, stripping the whole world.

    The US government placed orders to American industrialists during WW2, and it paid them money, most of which went to development, and not to the money. And the US government supplied the lion's share of the products to Europe in the form of free Lend-Lease. This means the government had finances before the war. If there was no base, then America could not produce anything, and even in such quantities.

    This article, by its objectivity, can cool the teddies. Or, contrary to logic and objectivity, will they idle?

    The United States did not become the most developed state in the world by the end of WW2, and by the beginning of the twentieth century.
    1. Kpox
      Kpox 12 December 2013 09: 58
      +2
      Quote: Beck
      in the form of a free Lend-Lease.


      Lend-lease (from the English. Lend - to lend and lease - to lease, for rent)

      On November 7, 1941, the US Congress decided to extend the Lend-Lease program to the USSR. During the war, Washington and Moscow entered into four Lend-Lease agreements.

      This was not a donation to the allies - all US recipients of Lend-Lease assistance received military materials and weapons on a long-term loan. It is worth recalling that by the time the war began, the United States had just begun to recover from the effects of the Great Depression, their economy was far from in perfect condition.
      1. Magellan
        Magellan 12 December 2013 10: 53
        +4
        Quote: Kpox
        Lend-lease (from the English. Lend - to lend and lease - to lease, for rent)

        “Imagine,” he said, “that my neighbor’s house caught fire, and I have a garden hose.” If he can take my hose and attach it to his pump, then I will help him put out the fire. What am I doing? I do not tell him: "Neighbor, this hose cost me $ 15, you need to pay for it." No! I don’t need $ 15, I need him to return my hose after the fire ends. "
        -F.D. Roosevelt

        1. Lend-Lease is NOT CHARITY, but an elaborate defense strategy in the interests of the United States. The reason for Uncle Sam’s unheard-of generosity was quite obvious: the Americans seriously feared that the "world fire" would spread to their "home", so they decided in advance to "secure themselves" and help those whom they considered necessary. Choking in brutal battles, the Soviet Union was included on the November 7 list of the 1941 of the year.

        2. Lend-lease payment was not gold. For Lend-Lease, Soviet soldiers paid with their own blood.

        3. Everything that was destroyed, spent and spent in battle Not payable. It was necessary to pay (or return) only the property that remained in the army and the national economy at the end of the hostilities (surviving tanks, power plants, machine tools, long-distance telephone communication centers, etc.)
        1. Beck
          Beck 12 December 2013 12: 46
          +5
          Well, that’s what being biased. Someone helped in difficult times, a normal person says thank you, but does not go out of steam and does not verbiage many years later.

          Quote: Magellan
          The reason for Uncle Sam's unprecedented generosity was quite obvious: the Americans seriously feared that the “world fire” would spread to their “home”, so they decided to “play safe” in advance and help those whom they themselves consider necessary.


          And who then, even from neutral countries, was not afraid that the war would spread to their home. And the USA helped allies, no allied Lend-Lease was not.

          Quote: Magellan
          Lend-lease payment was not gold. For Lend-Lease, Soviet soldiers paid with their own blood.


          Some kind of strange passage. That our soldiers were supposed to die so without Lend-Lease. Our soldiers with the help of Lend-Lease achieved Victory, and shed blood for the Homeland, and not for Lend-Lease.

          This is what Marshal G.K. gives to American supplies. Zhukov:

          “Now they say that the Allies never helped us ... But it cannot be denied that the Americans drove us so much material, without which we could not build up our reserves and could not continue the war ... We got 350 thousand cars, 1) Yes, what kind of cars! .. We did not have explosives, gunpowder. There was nothing to equip cartridges. The Americans really helped us out with gunpowder, explosives. And how much they drove us to sheet steel. How could we quickly set up tank production if it weren’t for American steel help. And now they present the matter in such a way that we had all of this in abundance ”


          And here’s what A.I. Mikoyan: “Now it’s easy to say that Lend-Lease didn’t mean anything. He ceased to be of great importance much later. But in the fall of 1941 we all lost, and if it weren’t for a Lend-Lease, not for weapons, food, warm clothes for the army and other supplies, the question is how the case would turn out. ”

          “During the war, the USSR received 18 (according to other sources, 700) aircraft from the allies for lend-lease assistance, including the Aerocobra, Kitty Hauck, Tomahawk, Hurricane fighters, and B medium bombers. 22, A-200 Boston, transport C-25, 20 tanks and self-propelled units, 47 thousand kilometers of telephone wire, 12 million telephones; 200 million pairs of boots, more than 100 thousand tons of leather for sewing shoes, 2,5 thousand meters wool, 15 thousand tons of stewed meat, 50 thousand tons of fat, 54 thousand tons of cow oil, 250 thousand tons of sugar, 300 steam locomotives, 65 cisterns on wheels, 700 electric diesel locomotives, about a thousand self-unloading cars, 1860 thousand railway platforms. the front and rear from the allies delivered 100 thousand tons of explosives, almost 70 million tons of oil products, and another 10 million tons of special steel for armor, 344 thousand tons of copper and bronze, 2 thousand tons of aluminum. it was possible to build 2,5 thousand ist fighters and bombers - almost as many as our aircraft factories produced them throughout the war "

          And if after that there is enough arrogance not to acknowledge and to blame, then continue.
          1. Magellan
            Magellan 12 December 2013 12: 58
            +3
            Quote: Beck
            Some kind of strange passage. That our soldiers were supposed to die so without Lend-Lease. Our soldiers with the help of Lend-Lease achieved Victory, and shed blood for the Homeland, and not for Lend-Lease.

            You are simply poorly informed

            Remember the telegram of Stalin, in which he proposed to abandon Lend-Lease - in return for the early opening of the Second Front.
            The Yankees did not agree - we produce weapons and equipment, put on shoes and stock - but we don’t want to go under the bullets. Here is our military help - fight yourself
            1. Beck
              Beck 12 December 2013 15: 06
              +3
              Quote: Magellan
              Remember the telegram of Stalin, in which he proposed to abandon Lend-Lease - in return for the early opening of the Second Front.


              That you are not informed, and maybe do not agree.

              After WWI, when several thousand American soldiers were killed in the fields of Europe, the US Congress decided. There is nothing for Americans to die in other parts of the world for the interests of others. And Congress passed the law - US forces can only be used in America itself. Actually because of this, the structure of the US Army did not develop. Like strong powers over the oceans, and for Canada and Mexico, in which case, and that is enough.

              And in 40, the beginning of 41 years, it was not that Stalin, Churchill could not persuade Roosevelt to enter the war with Germany, he said that he could not violate US law. This Hitler fell in the bathhouse, from the shelf, after Pearl Harbor, in early December 1941, declared war on the United States. With this, he untied Roosevelt's hands.

              At that time, the US structure of the US army did not allow an active war. That is why in 1942 the United States could not open a second front. And even in the Pacific Ocean, there were only two defensive battles, in May in the Coral Sea, in June near the Midway Island. Throughout 1942, the United States was intensely preparing for war. They produced tanks, planes, etc., some of which, according to Lend-Lease, went to Europe, personnel were intensively and thoroughly trained. And only at the beginning of 1943 America began active military operations in the Pacific Ocean. Having strengthened its position at sea and having trained expeditionary forces, the United States only in September 1943 landed its troops in Europe, Italy.

              Quote: Magellan
              The Yankees did not agree - we produce weapons and equipment, put on shoes and stock - but we don’t want to go under the bullets. Here is our military help - fight yourself


              But in the end they opened a second front. You never know helped any movements in Africa, the same Egypt, but who of Russian mothers agreed to send their sons to bullets. And I set out a general explanation of the situation at the top of this comment.
              1. Magellan
                Magellan 12 December 2013 17: 07
                -2
                Beck you are just an ignoramus and "float" in this topic, like a kars in an ice hole
                Do not try to prove anything if you do not know the facts. Otherwise it becomes funny.
                Quote: Beck
                This Hitler fell in the bathhouse, from the shelf, after Pearl Harbor, in early December 1941, declared war on the United States

                And he could have done it before. The USA openly waged an undeclared war against Germany from March 11, 1941 (the Lend-Lease Act and operations in the North Atlantic. The Germans also did not hesitate to sink American ships)
                Quote: Beck
                And even in the Pacific just two defensive battles, in May in the Coral Sea, in June off Midway Island.

                Oh wow!!! Only 2?
                The defeat of the Allied squadron in the Java Sea and the battle in the Sunda Strait the next day?
                Ground battles and surrender of the American garrison in the Philippines
                The massacre of Fr. Savo
                Furious sea battle at about. Santa cruz
                August 7, 1942 began the 7-month battle for Guadalcanal
                Quote: Beck
                And only at the beginning of 1943 America began active military operations in the Pacific Ocean

                Come on, lie)))
                Quote: Beck
                US expeditionary forces only in September 1943 landed their troops in Europe, Italy.

                The 70th American Expeditionary Force landed in North Africa on November 8, 1942.
                1. Beck
                  Beck 12 December 2013 17: 28
                  +2
                  Quote: Magellan
                  Oh wow!!! Only 2?


                  I named the two largest defensive battles. In addition to your listed, there was also the surrender of American troops in the Philippines. But these are all defensive, deterrent battles.

                  Real offensive operations began only in 1943, when the entire infrastructure of the US Army (aircraft carriers, new battleships, submarines, tanks, etc.) was ready and mobilized replenishment was trained.

                  Quote: Magellan
                  70th American Expeditionary Force landed in North Africa November 8, 1942


                  I didn’t even mention about Africa, since my opponents would not consider such an answer. For them, the second front is only Europe. I think they will not accept a landing in Italy as a second front. The second front for them is only France.
                  1. Santa Fe
                    12 December 2013 20: 01
                    +1
                    Quote: Beck
                    Real offensive operations began only in 1943, when the entire infrastructure of the US Army (aircraft carriers, new battleships, submarines, tanks, etc.) was ready and mobilized replenishment was trained.

                    Guys, it’s hot here - as if I hadn’t flopped))

                    Real offensive operations began in the summer of 1942:

                    On 7 on August 1942, the first Allied units, mostly American, landed on the islands of Guadalcanal, Tulagi and Florida to prevent the Japanese from using them as bases to threaten the supply lines between the United States, Australia and New Zealand. The allies also intended to use Guadalcanal and Tulagi as a bridgehead to launch a campaign to isolate a large Japanese base on Rabaul Island (New Britain). The initial landing took the Japanese, who occupied the islands since May 1942, by surprise. The allies immediately managed to capture the islands of Tulagi and Florida, as well as the Japanese-built airfield on Guadalcanal (later called Henderson Field).
                    Not expecting an Allied advance, from August to November of the 1942 year, the Japanese made several attempts to regain Henderson Field, which was defended by the US Marine Corps. U.S. Army units joined the airfield defenders in October. These attempts led to a series of major battles, including three land battles and five naval battles, and culminated in early Novemberwhen, as a result of a decisive naval battle, an end was put to the Japanese attempts to deliver enough troops to the island to take an airfield. In December 1942 of the year, the Japanese stopped trying to return the island to their control and began the evacuation of the landed forces, which ended successfully by February 7 of 1943.


                    Here and the offensive and defensive battles, and tens of thousands of dead, and six hundred shot down aircraft on each side
                    Quote: Beck
                    I named the two largest defensive battles

                    You forgot the campaign on Guadalcanal - the same fight at about. Santa Cruz (25-27 October 1942), the fourth major naval battle on the Pacific Theater. How did it differ from the Battle of the Coral Sea?
                    Even greater fierceness and greater losses

                    U.S. Navy Squadron anti-aircraft fire, Santa Cruz
                    1. Beck
                      Beck 12 December 2013 20: 27
                      +1
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      On August 7, 1942, the first allied units, mostly American, landed on the islands of Guadalcanal, Tulagi and Florida to prevent the Japanese from using them as bases to create a threat to supply lines between the United States, Australia and New Zealand.


                      I called two so as not to be overloaded. But you said, by and large, and in my opinion, defensive battles. Do not give to take, do not give to cut, do not give to take possession, to defend. (In the Philippines, none of this worked, the American troops surrendered). It will begin at 43 for the Americans - to occupy, to take possession of, to cut themselves, to advance.

                      Rough. At the beginning of the war, the Americans had 2 or 4 aircraft carriers. At 43, about 15, excluding excursion. Approximately in the same vein, and all kinds of other equipment. And then the training of specialists required a lot of time. For example, pilot training in America was much longer and more intensive in flight hours than in Japan and the USSR. But in order not to lose all experienced pilots at once, it took time. Japan did not bother about this and somewhere in the middle of the war, mostly greenery flew into its air force, which they mowed like grass.
                      1. Santa Fe
                        12 December 2013 21: 01
                        +1
                        Quote: Beck
                        But you said, by and large, and in my opinion, defensive battles

                        I don't know what you think, but the mess on Guadalcanal started with the fact that the Yankees learned that the Japs were building a large airfield (the future Henderson Field) - the Yankees got worried and carried out an amphibious landing in order to capture the island. Yamamoto tried to counterattack - it did not work, then there was an interception of the "Tokyo Express", the Second Pearl Harbor from about. Savo, sea battle at about. Santa Cruz, etc. interesting things. The culmination of a war in the Pacific. Crucial moment.
                        Quote: Beck
                        This will begin in 43 for the Americans - to occupy, to take possession of, to cut themselves, to advance.

                        At 43, the Yankees just developed the success of the Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands.

                        With 44, a new phase of the war began - the Yankees, with multiple numerical superiority, beat the japs ​​like puppies. The war turned into a methodical slaughter.
                        Quote: Beck
                        At the beginning of the war, the Americans had 2 or 4 aircraft carrier

                        Seven.
                        1942 killed Lexington, Yorktown and Hornet.
                        Although this did not matter so much - submarines, cruisers and destroyers reigned in the Pacific Ocean. Night artillery duels, torpedo attacks, Tokyo Express, artillery support ...
                        The Yankees never had a shortage of ships - even before the start of the war, they riveted four dozen cruisers and three hundred destroyers.
                        Since the spring of 1942, four new battleships have appeared - South Dakota, more powerful than all the battleships of the PX combined. The consequences of the attack on PX were completely eliminated.
                        That's all that and fought in a mess in Guadalcanal.

                        Night battle at about. Savo 9 August 1942 yankees lose 4 cruisers and 1000 sailors
                        In the light of Japanese searchlights - the heavy cruiser "Quincy" (will die)
                2. Beck
                  Beck 12 December 2013 18: 13
                  +1
                  Quote: Magellan
                  Beck you are just an ignoramus and "float" in this topic, like a kars in an ice hole


                  Anyone cannot know everything. Someone knows more, someone less. In discussions, not only is someone right, but there is mutual enrichment.

                  If you know one date more than mine (I myself, personally, don’t think so) this is not a reason to call your opponent an ignoramus. Or you want not to debate, but want to Swear.

                  It’s not in my rules, but if someone insists I can and satisfy, in any manner. In an aristocratic one with the words of a lady and a gentleman. In the philistine - you yourself d ... cancer. In Bydlovskaya - Yes, you went to x ... th. If you wish, the choice is yours.
          2. Setrac
            Setrac 12 December 2013 13: 31
            0
            Quote: Beck
            And if after that there is enough arrogance not to acknowledge and to blame, then continue.

            Five, no — four percent of the military production of the USSR — this is your lend-lease. And where is all the industrial power of the United States, and remained in the United States? Britain itself, practically without fighting, received orders of magnitude more.
            1. Beck
              Beck 12 December 2013 15: 11
              +1
              Quote: Setrac
              Five, no - four percent of the military production of the USSR - this is your lend-lease


              Yes, at least half a percent. But if these half percent saved the life of at least one of our soldiers, thanks already. It is possible that the rescued soldier gave life to your father, and the father to you.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 12 December 2013 15: 40
                +1
                Quote: Beck
                Yes, at least half a percent. But if these half percent saved the life of at least one of our soldiers, thanks already. It is possible that the rescued soldier gave life to your father, and the father to you.

                They saved one, tens of millions destroyed, directly benefactors.
                1. Beck
                  Beck 12 December 2013 16: 01
                  +1
                  Quote: Setrac
                  They saved one, tens of millions destroyed, directly benefactors.


                  Well, for that matter, and you are so biased and ungrateful, let’s, as decent people do, first pay for everything that is set, and only then allow yourself to say - Yes, you delivered rubbish. We would have done without it. Then at least it will be logical. And then they took it, used it, did not repay the debt, and now we are talking with the mustache ourselves. Would be with a mustache if they didn’t take anything.
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 12 December 2013 16: 36
                    -1
                    Quote: Beck
                    Well, for that matter, and you are so biased and ungrateful, let’s, as decent people do, first pay for everything that is set, and only then allow yourself to say - Yes, you delivered rubbish.

                    As decent people, let's not unleash world wars. What is it like to be a devil's advocate?
                    Quote: Beck
                    Then at least it will be logical.

                    It is logical that if the Americans had not unleashed the Second World War, then the USSR would not have needed a Lend-Lease, albeit such a miserable one.
                    1. Beck
                      Beck 12 December 2013 16: 48
                      +3
                      Quote: Setrac
                      It is logical that if the Americans had not unleashed the Second World War, then the USSR would not have needed a Lend-Lease, albeit such a miserable one.

                      Quote: Setrac
                      Let's not unleash world wars as decent people


                      And here you are about that.

                      Wars arise as a result of uneven economic development of countries and regions, due to one or another random circumstances. In its purest form, no one ever wished.

                      And you are about the world behind the scenes, about the Jewish-Masonic America, about the damned West, about the world conspiracy, about bigwigs with the City, about aliens, about otherworldly forces. Which together are all against us.

                      So I don’t think about such rubbish and do not discuss feverish fantasies on a free topic. There’s nothing to do to me. I need to peel the potato, I'll go.
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 December 2013 17: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: Beck
                        And you about the world behind the scenes, about the Jewish-Masonic America

                        nevertheless, there is a world behind the scenes, and it does not matter for us what it is, the Masonic or Anglo-Saxon.
                        Quote: Beck
                        about bigwigs with City, about aliens

                        It is strange that you put real TNCs on a par with aliens, you probably know more about aliens than others?
                        Quote: Beck
                        So I don’t think about such rubbish and do not discuss feverish fantasies on a free topic.

                        I understand your position - the position of an ostrich. Or maybe you're just protecting your masters?
                      2. Beck
                        Beck 12 December 2013 17: 46
                        -1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Or maybe you're just protecting your masters?


                        Well, you have to. You calculated me. Well, to the end split.

                        I also get money from them, for sending the comments of visitors to this site to them. One pension a week from the CIA, NSA, FBI, from the Anglo-Saxon lobby, from intelligence services in Honduras and the Lesser Sunda Islands. And one penny a month from the Foreign Intelligence Service, the FSB, and the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs. And separately, one tugrik per day from the commission on foreign affairs of the Great Khural of Mongolia.

                        This is because I am not a double, but a triple agent under the cover of the Ecumenical Christian Council and the secret assistance of the World Islamic Organization. You won’t gamble with this money, but enough for potatoes.

                        With such a track record, if I am caught in the jungle of Papua New Guinea, then they will shoot me under the very first palm without trial. Therefore, I am not visiting Kazakhstan.
                    2. ImPerts
                      ImPerts 12 December 2013 18: 06
                      0
                      Quote: Beck
                      Wars arise as a result of uneven economic development of countries and regions, due to one or another random circumstances.

                      And why was Vietnam needed?
                      What about Grenada?
                      Only for the 3 percent of wars in the 20 century the responsibility lies with the USSR, 60 - 70 percent - in the Western states and 25-35 in the "independent" third world countries. Only in the 4 percent of the wars in the 20 century did the USSR act as an aggressor, while the United States in the 30 percent of all the wars of the 20 century were the initiators.
                      Economics and politics. Nothing personal.
                    3. Santa Fe
                      12 December 2013 19: 43
                      -1
                      Quote: ImPerts
                      Only for the 3 percent of wars in the 20 century the responsibility lies with the USSR,

                      Purely so as to refresh memory))

                      Polish campaign of the Red Army

                      Occupation of the Baltic States

                      Winter war with Finland

                      The Korean War - June 25 1950 of the year. the offensive was launched by Kim Im Sen, pumped up with weapons and military advisers from the USSR, with the full political, economic and military support of Comrade Stalin

                      All the Arab-Israeli wars - it was Stalin who insisted on the creation of an Israeli state on the lands of Palestine (the mandate of the British Empire), where the interethnic conflict will last forever. Subsequently, it was the USSR that pumped Arab countries with weapons and military advisers

                      Military and political support for cannibalistic (literally) regimes in Africa - Idi Amin, Bokassa

                      Invasion of Afghanistan

                      Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, MNF operation "Desert Storm" - just remember on whose grub Saddam Hussein grew up and what weapon he fought
                    4. ImPerts
                      ImPerts 12 December 2013 19: 52
                      -1
                      This is 3%. The rest of the text)))
                    5. Santa Fe
                      12 December 2013 20: 07
                      0
                      Tell us about the rest 97%
                    6. ImPerts
                      ImPerts 12 December 2013 20: 22
                      0
                      Do you disagree with 3%?
                      Justify)))
                      When you give a justification, then we will begin ...
                      And about feeding and pumping)))
                      I especially liked the topic about Israel)))
                    7. Santa Fe
                      12 December 2013 21: 04
                      +1
                      Quote: ImPerts
                      Do you disagree with 3%?
                      Justify)))

                      Only for the 3 percent of wars in the 20 century the responsibility lies with the USSR

                      your words. what calculations is this figure based on
                    8. ImPerts
                      ImPerts 12 December 2013 21: 12
                      -1
                      On the public. Do you have doubts? Justify, my friend, justify)))
                  2. cdrt
                    cdrt 13 December 2013 03: 04
                    0
                    Quote: ImPerts
                    Do you disagree with 3%?
                    Justify)))
                    When you give a justification, then we will begin ...
                    And about feeding and pumping)))
                    I especially liked the topic about Israel)))


                    Well, according to the rules of any normal dispute, the argument (about 3%) should be justified by the party expressing it, and not denying it ...

                    This is so - from the institute yet laughing
                  3. ImPerts
                    ImPerts 13 December 2013 06: 39
                    0
                    Quote: cdrt
                    Well, according to the rules of any normal dispute, substantiate an argument

                    Do you disagree? Justify smile
                    You can’t hi
                    This is from the institute. The opponent gets up and says, but I do not agree, because like ...
  • cdrt
    cdrt 13 December 2013 03: 01
    0
    Quote: Setrac
    They saved one, tens of millions destroyed, directly benefactors


    And explain - how did Lend-Lease kill our soldiers?
  • Magellan
    Magellan 12 December 2013 17: 13
    -1
    Quote: Setrac
    Five, no — four percent of the military production of the USSR — this is your lend-lease.

    Quote: Setrac
    Five, no - four percent of the military production of the USSR - this is your lend-lease

    How did you calculate this figure?))

    For many parameters Lend-Lease accounted for 300% of Soviet production - for example, Soviet industry produced during the war years 152 thousand cars and trucks. At the same time, Lend-Lease was set 450 thousand. trucks and jeeps(without taking into account their technical characteristics - the same one-and-a-half (Ford 1929 model) is a shame to compare with any Studebaker)
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 12 December 2013 17: 27
      -2
      Quote: Magellan
      How did you calculate this figure?))

      I did not consider. Everything is counted up to us.
      Quote: Magellan
      For many parameters, Lend-Lease accounted for 300% of Soviet production

      Is 300% of an almost complete absence a lot? There was a Lend-Lease, no one denies it, but the role of Lend-Lease is greatly exaggerated. A second front in 1942 would help the USSR much more. And do not say that America was not ready, America created the conditions so that this war was and could be prepared as you like.
      1. Kars
        Kars 12 December 2013 17: 44
        +2
        Quote: Setrac
        there was a end-lease, no one denies it, but the role of the lease-lease is greatly exaggerated.

        But in Soviet sources it is very understated. Also, trucks are also the pace of offensive operations of the Soviet army.
        Quote: Setrac
        the second front in 1942 would help the USSR a lot more

        The USSR would help France at the most if they had resisted for at least a year longer, and you want the Yankees to say that the demon didn’t carry out a transoceanic landing operation?
        Quote: Setrac
        And do not say that America was not ready, America created the conditions for this war to be prepared and they could

        This is especially noticeable in the number of tanks and the mobilization of the U.S. army, right? Maybe the U.S. was preparing for war, but they were preparing for war with Japan. And the British and French prepared the European war by signing the Munich Agreement, and calmly looking at German violations of the Versailles Treaty.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 12 December 2013 17: 57
          0
          Quote: Kars
          We need to say thanks for the African front.

          We don’t know much, and therefore I follow a simple principle, which you probably also know: If you want to find the culprit, look for someone who benefits from it! And the United States got the most benefits from WWII, the rest is lies and propaganda.
          1. Kars
            Kars 12 December 2013 19: 45
            +1
            Quote: Setrac
            And most of the benefits from WWII received the United States

            So what? It’s one thing to get, but not only the United States tried to benefit from the Second World War, but it couldn’t be another matter.
            Quote: Setrac
            everything else is lies and propaganda.

            Yes, all lies and propaganda. Only one suits us, the other is not very good, and the third does not like us at all.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 12 December 2013 13: 09
    -4
    Quote: Magellan
    The reason for Uncle Sam's unprecedented generosity was quite obvious: the Americans seriously feared that the “world fire” would spread to their “house”

    And who blew this "fire"? Through the efforts of the Americans, Japan and Germany built their war industries.
    Quote: Magellan
    It was necessary to pay (or return) only the property that remained in the army and the national economy at the end of the hostilities (surviving tanks, power plants, machine tools, long-distance telephone communication centers, etc.)

    Well, T BARR And these Americans. They SHOULD us for drawing our country into their war.
    1. Magellan
      Magellan 12 December 2013 13: 22
      +2
      Quote: Setrac
      Through the efforts of the Americans, Japan and Germany built their war industry.

      Oh really
      maybe Germany helped the USSR rise, thanks to its industrial and military orders? or maybe the Germans were full of revanchist sentiments - and didn’t need any help at all?

      Japan))) this bastards unleashed WWII back in 1933 throughout Southeast Asia and robbed all of China (with Manchuria) and French Indikitay by the time of the attack on PX
    2. Prometey
      Prometey 12 December 2013 13: 24
      +1
      Quote: Setrac
      Through the efforts of the Americans, Japan and Germany built their war industry.

      Japan - yes. Germany created its own powerful industry by the beginning of the 20th century on its own.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 12 December 2013 13: 42
        0
        Quote: Prometey
        Germany created its own powerful industry by the beginning of the 20th century on its own.

        Which, after the First World War, was successfully de-industrialized.
        Quote: Prometey
        maybe Germany helped the USSR rise, thanks to its industrial and military orders?

        Yes, you rave, the USSR could not strengthen Germany in any way. The Americans supplied industrial equipment to Germany, built factories, and here you are transferring arrows to the USSR.
        1. Prometey
          Prometey 12 December 2013 13: 45
          +1
          Quote: Setrac
          Quote: Prometey
          maybe Germany helped the USSR rise, thanks to its industrial and military orders?

          I did not write this belay
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 12 December 2013 13: 57
            0
            Quote: Prometey
            I did not write this

            I apologize, the answer is immediately to Magellan, your thoughts go in parallel.
            1. badabing
              badabing 12 December 2013 17: 52
              -1
              Setrak
              for you link http://forum-msk.org/material/economic/5456372.html
              here it is described in detail how De Beers delivered industrial diamonds to Germany, with the help of which the Germans sculpted excellent machines, and those in turn were tigers and panthers ..
              I fully support you, I don’t want the states in blood for the most part and are not going to calm down until they let themselves know
              1. cdrt
                cdrt 13 December 2013 03: 06
                0
                Quote: badabing
                Setrak
                for you link http://forum-msk.org/material/economic/5456372.html
                here it is described in detail how De Beers delivered industrial diamonds to Germany, with the help of which the Germans sculpted excellent machines, and those in turn were tigers and panthers ..
                I fully support you, I don’t want the states in blood for the most part and are not going to calm down until they let themselves know


                Sorry, what does the United States have to do with De Beers?
  • Beck
    Beck 12 December 2013 12: 31
    +2
    Quote: Kpox
    It is worth recalling that by the time the war began, the United States had just begun to recover from the effects of the Great Depression, their economy was far from in perfect condition.


    And who spoke in perfect. But even in this form, it produced more than half of the rest during the war years.

    Quote: Kpox
    This was not a donation to the allies - all US recipients of Lend-Lease assistance received military materials and weapons on a long-term loan.


    No one paid the full amount of Lend-Lease. The USSR and Russia today have paid only 7% of what was delivered during the war. And it seems that payments are generally frozen. Was not fully paid in gold only the first tranche of four.
    1. bairat
      bairat 12 December 2013 18: 31
      +1
      Quote: Beck
      No one paid the full amount of Lend-Lease. The USSR and Russia today have paid only 7% of what was delivered during the war. And it seems that payments are generally frozen. Was not fully paid in gold only the first tranche of four.

      7% is just what survived and needed to be returned. A small part was returned, the rest was negotiated, ours offered 300 million, the Americans demanded 800. Then, with the onset of the Cold War, the topic died out, in the 70s they paid 48 million, today the debt is completely closed. Given that inflation was not taken into account, Americans received back less than 1% of the assistance provided.
      And gold paid for a simple purchase of weapons in the states, this happened before the entry into force of the law on Lend-Lease in relation to the USSR. Yes, and the Germans sank this gold, so do not say that the Americans in this war were enriched.
      1. Beck
        Beck 12 December 2013 18: 50
        +1
        Quote: bairat
        Yes, and the Germans sank this gold, so do not say that the Americans in this war were enriched.


        Приветствуем!

        Quite somewhere, he brought the wrong figures, but not critical. In general, we have one direction. As I recall, the latest English cruiser took out gold from Murmansk. And pretending to be himself walking on the sea without anti-submarine zigzag, and was sunk. But somewhere I heard that for many years after the war this gold was still taken out.

        And America was not enriched by the fact that it raised money from all over the world. And the fact that the American government encouraged and financed military industrial production, which in peacetime quickly changed to peaceful production.
        1. Doctorleg
          Doctorleg 12 December 2013 18: 56
          +1
          In my opinion the cruiser "Edinburgh". In his youth, he read how they got gold from him. The gold was divided between the recipient and the recipient
          1. Santa Fe
            12 December 2013 20: 10
            +4
            Edinburgh - British cruiser, died in 1942 year
            5 tons of gold on board - payback for UK military supplies in the summer-autumn of 1941. Lendlis has nothing to do with it
            1. Beck
              Beck 12 December 2013 20: 40
              +1
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Edinburgh - British cruiser, died in 1942 year
              5 tons of gold on board - payback for UK military supplies in the summer-autumn of 1941. Lendlis has nothing to do with it


              Corrected and good, you can’t keep everything in your memory. But the direction is one. Without denying the objectivity of the value of the supply of a land lens.
        2. bairat
          bairat 12 December 2013 20: 02
          +1
          Yes, we have one direction: we study history without dividing it into yours and ours, objectively, without separating the facts, the only way to draw the right conclusions and avoid mistakes in the future.
          1. Kpox
            Kpox 17 December 2013 17: 19
            0
            as if one of you / us will decide to commit ..
  • washi
    washi 12 December 2013 11: 44
    0
    Quote: Beck
    The United States became the most developed state in the world not by the end of WW2, but by the beginning of the twentieth century.

    Not by the beginning of the 20th century, but after the 1st World War.
    It is on it that the USA has developed and financed on European orders, because the territory was not affected by the war.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 12 December 2013 12: 52
    -2
    Quote: Beck
    Persistent LABOR of workers and ENTREPRENEURSHIP businessmen.

    Enough about the "hard work" of the Americans. Of course they worked hard, but so that the Americans could stubbornly rivet weapons, half of the globe plowed on them.
    Quote: Beck
    And the US government supplied the lion's share of the products to Europe in the form of free Lend-Lease.

    Here, in more detail, to whom and how much, and what contribution did these countries make to the common victory? And then Lend-Lease received some and others fought.
    Quote: Beck
    This means the government had finances before the war.

    And where did this finance come from?
    1. Beck
      Beck 12 December 2013 13: 00
      +2
      Quote: Setrac
      Here, in more detail, to whom and how much, and what contribution did these countries make to the common victory? And then Lend-Lease received some and others fought.


      Read above.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 12 December 2013 13: 35
        -1
        Quote: Beck
        Read above.

        Sorry, but you do not write about this "above".
        1. Beck
          Beck 12 December 2013 15: 29
          +1
          Quote: Setrac
          Sorry, but you do not write about this "above".


          If the opponent or opponent is biased, both the competition and the battle will be lost.

          I will repeat Hard work and Pretense.

          The most energetic people who were not afraid of the unknown and difficulties went to America from all over Europe, and then the world. They built a powerful, developed state in a "bare" place for 250 years. Other countries have not been able to do this for millennia - England, France, Russia, China, Japan, etc.

          Currently, the result is obvious. It’s just that you don’t want to see him out of jealousy or something, blind through your teeth unintelligible.

          We must not bark, but take the best, implement it, work hard and smile with satisfaction when the United States is left behind.

          An example is China. He stopped barking communistically at "imperialism" and took the best from the West, took technologies, methods of economic management, organization of production, and is already breathing down the back of the US head. Because China realized that just barking is still blown away by the wind.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 12 December 2013 16: 05
            -2
            Quote: Beck
            Other countries could not do this for millennia - England, France, Russia, China, Japan, etc.

            Some of the countries you listed were far ahead of America before the twentieth century. The United States seized control of the colonies from former colonial empires - this was the basis of the industrial and financial power of the United States and not
            Quote: Beck
            rode the most energetic people who were not afraid of the unknown and difficulties

            Quote: Beck
            An example is China.

            China's example shows that hard work is not enough.
            1. Beck
              Beck 12 December 2013 16: 19
              +3
              Quote: Setrac
              Some of the countries you listed were far ahead of America before the twentieth century. The United States seized control of the colonies from former colonial empires - this was the basis of the industrial and financial power of the United States and not


              Never in its history has America been a colonial power. And besides the fact that the most energetic went to America, they were also with the makings of independence. One of the people who emigrated to America was not willing to read all kinds of lords, barons, counts, boyars, etc.

              The colonial era ended only after the Second World War. And the USA never captured foreign colonies. She fought in her own way. When, after the war, the United States began to allocate billions of dollars to rebuild Europe, according to the Marshall Plan, the Netherlands began to use part of the money received for the war in Indonesia to restore its colonial domination over this country. It was then that the United States suspended the payment of money to Holland until it left Indonesia alone. Holland had nothing to do, and it stopped its military expansion. So Indonesia has become an independent country.
              1. Taoist
                Taoist 12 December 2013 16: 51
                +1
                / Never, in its history, America was a colonial power. /

                Well, yes, of course, Texas is in Mexico, Cuba is in Spain, and in general for "little things" here and there it is certainly not a "colonial power" ...
                Again, the term "neocolonialism" he also coined from scratch. If a "star-striped" is not raised above the colony, this does not mean at all that it has ceased to be a colony. A colony is primarily a resource source that does not have the ability to make any independent decisions on the redistribution and redirection of resource flows. In this regard, all the empires of the past are far from the United States. And even we ourselves were de facto in the 90s such a colony of the United States.
                1. Beck
                  Beck 12 December 2013 17: 18
                  +2
                  Quote: Taoist
                  Well, yes, of course, Texas is in Mexico, Cuba is in Spain, and in general on "little things


                  The war for territory is not a colonial war. The war between the USA and Mexico over Texas was a war for territory. A territory that did not have clear boundaries on both sides, Texas ball was a fragment of Spanish colonialism.

                  As a result of the war, Texas moved to the United States, but Mexico did not become a US colony. It's like Germany did not become a colony of the USSR, but Koenigsberg lost.

                  Cuba. In 1895, in Cuba, under the leadership of Jose Marti, an uprising broke out against Spanish colonialism. The war was long and bloody. In 1898, the United States sided with Jose Marti and declared war on Spain. Spain was expelled from Cuba. Cuba has become an independent state.

                  But it was agreed that the United States could send its troops to Cuba under extraordinary circumstances (possibly under the aggression of other countries). This item was canceled in 1934.

                  Well, where is US colonialism. Can you name other countries that were truly US colonies. Like, for example, India in England or Poland in Russia.

                  Quote: Taoist
                  Again, the term "neocolonialism" he also coined from scratch.


                  Just on the empty. This is a fragment of the former Soviet propaganda as an attribute of the struggle against imperialism. All the dictators of the countries who wanted to receive help from the USSR called their countries social democratic. The same countries that were guided by the western path of development, communist propaganda called this process neocolonialism.
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 12 December 2013 17: 31
                    -3
                    Quote: Beck
                    The war for territory is not a colonial war.

                    You know the phrase (not verbatim)
                    "Latin America is the backyard of the United States"?
                  2. Taoist
                    Taoist 12 December 2013 17: 42
                    0
                    Territory Wars or Colony Wars? A colony is a territory whose resources are used by the metropolis without control from the point of view of the local population. So what's the fundamental difference between Texas and Poland? The Kingdom of Poland became part of the Russian Empire and enjoyed all the rights of self-government like any other province ... Texas was annexed from Mexico and in the same way became part of the United States - what's the difference?
                    Well, the battleship Maine in the Havana raid blew up for sure solely for the sake of "freedom and independence of Cuba." However, the operation "Anadyr" was also carried out for this.
                    Neo-colonialism was not invented in the bowels of the chief chief. Economists invented it. Since everyone needs resources, and one does not want to spend money on the introduction of "direct control" (as in the classical colonial style).
                    And the "Bretton Woods" system became the starting point for the development of the neo-colonial structure.
                    It was the USSR, out of stupidity and idealism, trying to build a system according to the "ideological principle" - on which it actually got burned. And the Yankees in such "sentimentality" are by no means noted.
                  3. Setrac
                    Setrac 12 December 2013 17: 44
                    -1
                    Quote: Beck
                    Well, where is US colonialism.

                    For example - the use of the dollar by other countries - monetary taxation.
                    Or for example control of trade routes by the US Navy. There are such key points of maritime transport as Panama, Suez, Singapore.
                    Favorable US international standards, access to the domestic market of other countries, access of Anglo-American corporations to the resources of other countries. All this is supported by military force, and who rebels at once - Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, there are many other countries in which it did not come to war - various flower-colored revolutions do not come from popular anger. Ukraine in the end.
                    1. Beck
                      Beck 12 December 2013 19: 00
                      +3
                      Quote: Setrac
                      For example - the use of the dollar by other countries - monetary taxation.
                      Or for example control of trade routes by the US Navy. There are such key points of maritime transport as Panama, Suez, Singapore.


                      They did not impose their US dollar on anyone. After the war, at the Brand-Wood Economic Conference of leading countries, it was decided that it was archaic to conduct international payments with gold and carry it by sea, and drag along roads to different countries of the world. We decided to carry out all settlements in some sort of hard and strong currency. The US economy was strong, respectively, the dollar is strong. He was chosen as the equivalent. Tomorrow, the yuan will be stronger than the dollar and everyone will transfer to international renminbi.

                      And the fact that America is influential all over the world is, first of all, its strong economy. Just like in Europe. What tanks did not do for Germany in 1941-1945, finances did in the 80s.
                    2. Setrac
                      Setrac 12 December 2013 20: 37
                      -1
                      Quote: Beck
                      They did not impose their US dollar on anyone.

                      Tell it to your grandmother, this is a lie. Then, to the heap, tell us how the United States refused to provide the dollar with gold.
                    3. saturn.mmm
                      saturn.mmm 12 December 2013 21: 57
                      0
                      Quote: Beck
                      Tomorrow, the yuan will be stronger than the dollar and everyone will transfer to international renminbi.

                      When this happens, the US economy will be at a steep peak.
                      Ever wondered why the United States annually increases the level of public debt by a couple of trillion?
                    4. Beck
                      Beck 12 December 2013 22: 54
                      +1
                      Quote: saturn.mmm
                      When this happens, the US economy will be at a steep peak.


                      Who will be good? It will be bad for everyone. In the age of globalization, when the economies of the countries are intertwined into a single whole - the world economy, the break of one link, besides a large one, will lead to chaos.

                      Example. About 8 years ago, only two mortgage banks burst in America. And what did we care about bankrupt bankers and housing problems of amers. So no, the whole world was shaking and we are still sneezing. In order not to be worse, one must not want a steep peak, but raise his economy, then there will be no excursions. Look how the Chinese do. The desire to crash the US is a suicidal symptom of suicide.

                      Quote: saturn.mmm
                      Ever wondered why the United States annually increases the level of public debt by a couple of trillion?


                      Who now lives without public debt? Without getting into the wilds. Public debt is the printing of the mass of banknotes of the currency of a country. No doubt he began in the United States. It seems to President Nixon or who later lacked budget money to fulfill his campaign promises. He asked the Fed to borrow money. She did not hesitate and printed the required amount, this is the state debt. Then other presidents began to ask the Fed for money and not only for campaign promises, for any programs that were considered necessary. Then this practice moved to other countries. In Russia, where do you think the money comes from for the Kremlin’s populist promises to increase pensions, salaries, various aids, and from there, the central bank prints the necessary amount of banknotes.

                      Government debts for 2010. Rounded off

                      US 9 trillion dollars, 62% of GDP. Japan is 8 trillion, 198% of GDP. Germany 2 trillion, 83%. China 2 trillion, 19%. South Korea 331 billion, 23%. Russia 52 billion, 5%. Kazakhstan 11%.

                      This is also one of the reasons why all the currencies of the world are not currently supported by gold. Paper currency lives its own life. Economists explain this somehow, I'm not an economist.
                    5. cdrt
                      cdrt 13 December 2013 03: 11
                      0
                      Quote: saturn.mmm
                      Quote: Beck
                      Tomorrow, the yuan will be stronger than the dollar and everyone will transfer to international renminbi.

                      When this happens, the US economy will be at a steep peak.
                      Ever wondered why the United States annually increases the level of public debt by a couple of trillion?


                      The answer to your question is simple - because it can do it.
                      And the rest are not. Moreover, others take it for granted. If you get rid of the voices in the head, screaming about the w..domason conspiracy, world government, then you can even understand why.
                      Key words for understanding -% growth of the global economy and world trade
              2. ImPerts
                ImPerts 12 December 2013 17: 45
                0
                Quote: Beck
                Never in its history has America been a colonial power.

                "Crisis of the Bretton Woods monetary system
                This system could exist only as long as US gold reserves could ensure the conversion of foreign dollars into gold. The collapse of the dollar was predetermined. US gold reserves were melting before our eyes: at times 3 tons per day. And this, again, despite all the conceivable and inconceivable measures that the United States took to stop the leakage of gold, to make the dollar “reversible until it requires its reversibility” (S. De Gaulle). The possibilities for exchanging dollars for gold were in every way limited: it could be carried out only at the official level and only in one place - in the US Treasury. But the numbers speak for themselves: from 1949 to 1970, US gold reserves fell from 21 800 to 9838,2 tons - more than twice.

                The last point in this "flight from the dollar" and put General de Gaulle, not limited to a declaration on the need to eliminate the priority of the dollar. From words, he got down to business, presenting the United States with an exchange of 1,5 billion dollars. A scandal erupted. The United States began to put pressure on France as a partner in NATO. And then General de Gaulle went even further, announcing France’s withdrawal from NATO, the elimination of all 189 NATO bases in France and the withdrawal of 35 thousands of NATO soldiers. To top it all off, during his official visit to the United States, he presented millions of dollars in exchange for gold 750. And the United States was forced to make this exchange at a firm rate, since all the necessary formalities were followed.
                Of course, such a scale of "intervention" could not "tumble the dollar", but the blow was dealt to the most vulnerable spot - the "Achilles heel" of the dollar. General de Gaulle set a dangerous precedent for the United States. Suffice it to say that only from 1965 to 1967, the United States was forced to exchange its dollars for 3000 tons of pure gold. Following France, Germany presented dollars for exchange for gold.
                But the United States soon adopted equally unprecedented protective measures, unilaterally abandoning all of its earlier international obligations to back the dollar in gold. "
                WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING IN THE INTERSTATE (AND CURRENCY) RELATIONS. AND THE US HAS NEVER BEEN A COLONIAL HOLD.
                And Guantanomo is a gift from Fidel Castro. To keep terrorists there)))
                1. Beck
                  Beck 12 December 2013 19: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: ImPerts
                  This system could exist only as long as US gold reserves could ensure the conversion of foreign dollars into gold.


                  This is yesterday. Today, not a single currency of the world is provided with gold, as previously written on rubles, with all the wealth of the republic. Now, in my opinion, monetary currencies live their lives, are not tied to gold, exist by some of my own rules, which I, not an economist, do not know and do not understand.

                  And gold is yesterday.
                2. ImPerts
                  ImPerts 12 December 2013 19: 26
                  0
                  Of course of course...
                  The machine solves all problems, and when the bill is presented, then you can refuse obligations. As well as from gold security.
                  This fits well with the logic of the US.
                  The management does not ask the rest of the world, do you agree to increase the state debt with us? After all, the United States understands perfectly well that it will not be able to pay off such a debt, and therefore conversations about coffins and prisons are half empty. For the drastic fall in wealth, the Rednecks will not suffer, and given the number of gunshots on hand, it will be difficult for the feds. Texas will solve the issue of independence to this tune. They have nothing to lose, but oil still remains, they will not remain in the loser)))
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 12 December 2013 16: 57
          -1
          Quote: Beck
          Never in its history has America been a colonial power.

          Right after the Second World War, it began to be a colonial empire.
          Quote: Beck
          The colonial era ended only after the Second World War.

          It has not ended yet.
          Quote: Beck
          And the USA never captured foreign colonies.

          There are different forms of colonial robbery. The United States does not do this directly.
          Quote: Beck
          She fought in her own way.

          Do you believe that yourself?
    2. Kpox
      Kpox 17 December 2013 17: 21
      0
      cheap labor and availability of resources are the basis of this "success"
  • Prometey
    Prometey 12 December 2013 13: 20
    +2
    Quote: Setrac
    Of course they worked hard, but so that the Americans could stubbornly rivet weapons, they plowed half the globe.

    Who are these half-worlds? Chinese? - at that time they were utter beggars and uneducated peasants. Latin America? - the same dull countryside? Tell us.
  • cdrt
    cdrt 13 December 2013 02: 57
    0
    Quote: Beck
    This means the government had finances before the war. If there was no base, then America could not produce anything, and even in such quantities.


    You will not believe laughing
    The US government borrowed these finances from its own people laughing
    Such a Keynesian perpetual motion machine
    Well, +100500 to you for explaining the reasons for the growth of the US economy
  • shurup
    shurup 12 December 2013 09: 37
    +4
    The name of one of the transports in the photo smiled: "Victory of the USSR".
    And laying a road in permafrost conditions is similar to ours. The same discouraged poses of the hands on the hips at the sight of only the roof of the cab of a powerful "Caterpillar" sticking out of the swamp.
    Still, they were lucky with the climate.
    1. Samuray
      Samuray 12 December 2013 16: 38
      +5
      yeah! They are lucky with the climate
    2. Samuray
      Samuray 12 December 2013 16: 38
      0
      yeah! They are lucky with the climate
  • makarov
    makarov 12 December 2013 09: 37
    +3
    It would be nice if the author of the material compares the stated material with the construction of new factories evacuated to the Urals, their terms of commissioning and the release of the first products. As well as the fact that in the USA there was no military action and the population did not die ..
  • rolik2
    rolik2 12 December 2013 10: 25
    +4
    Quote: makarov
    so that the author of the material compares the stated material with the construction of new factories evacuated to the Urals,


    What for?
    No one is going to downplay the magnitude of that feat of ordinary Soviet workers who brought Victory closer while standing behind the machines in the rear.
  • tomas.09
    tomas.09 12 December 2013 10: 32
    -3
    Someone is trading, and someone is fighting !!!
  • Volkhov
    Volkhov 12 December 2013 10: 47
    -1
    Hefty black man who worked on laying a railway tunnel in Virginia. Once a black “Stakhanovets” decided to compete in labor productivity with a steam hammer, he got ahead of the car, but in the end he died from exhaustion.

    Zionism rejoice herds of hardworking demented - biblical shepherds ...
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 12 December 2013 11: 19
    +2
    Interesting article. Especially after a long discussion of the need for planning (here)
    http://topwar.ru/37085-ekonomicheskie-metody-premera-medvedeva-otpravyat-v-topku
    .html # comment-id-1754105
    Planning...
    According to the established schedule, I must daily deliver three finished vessels.

    How does it look like:
    ... nightly, Stalin waited for Ustinov with a report - and it was necessary to report on each rifle, not to mention howitzers. When it was not possible to comply with the daily rate of production of rifles - and Ustinov honestly called the figure: 9 997 instead of 10 000, Stalin sneakily remarked that if Comrade Ustinov again repeated this report, the question of the future of our young people's commissar would be resolved ...
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 12 December 2013 11: 45
    +5
    Yes, something, and the organization of production of the Americans was fine, be healthy, leaving aside other countries, I must say that the Americans really filled up the whole "free" world with weapons, equipment, materials, as they called it then. Looking at all this abundance and just colossal industrial power, there is a doubt about the mental state of the Japanese General Staff, and of course Adolf, who declared war on the Americans just like a pack of nuts opened, walking around, they had a heavy dumbbell hanging around their neck in the form of a war with the USSR and stubborn Great Britain with Che at the head, and then Adolf decided to "add weight" in the form of the most powerful industrial power in the world, why not? Not to mention, of course, the moral character of the German soldier of that time, he is certainly good, but you need to really measure your strength, I admire the industrial power of America of that time and their managerial abilities, but the USSR rebuilt hundreds of factories in an open field, while waging a war of destruction with the Nazis, in conditions of military chaos and not the confusion of the first period of the war, here we need the most competent logistic and organizational and managerial decisions, any mistake will cost a dear price, here they are increasingly tied up to scold Soviet products of the military-industrial complex, but such people are only in a liberal madhouse, I can’t say anything else.
    1. Magellan
      Magellan 12 December 2013 11: 54
      +1
      Quote: Standard Oil
      there is doubt about the mental state of the Japanese General Staff, and of course Adolf, who declared war on the Americans just as he opened a pack of nuts

      “There are no more stupid people than Americans. They can never fight like heroes. ”
      -German nation leader Adolf Hitler
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil 12 December 2013 12: 04
        +5
        Quote: Magellan
        “There are no more stupid people than Americans. They can never fight like heroes. ”

        I wonder what the Germans were thinking and whether they agreed with the Fuehrer sitting in the basements when their B-24 cities were ironing? But Adolf was right about the "heroic", really nothing "heroic" about looking through a bomber sight and pulling a lever when you will not be over the target, but did the Führer feel any relief from this?
        1. cdrt
          cdrt 13 December 2013 03: 14
          0
          Quote: Standard Oil
          Quote: Magellan
          “There are no more stupid people than Americans. They can never fight like heroes. ”

          I wonder what the Germans were thinking and whether they agreed with the Fuehrer sitting in the basements when their B-24 cities were ironing? But Adolf was right about the "heroic", really nothing "heroic" about looking through a bomber sight and pulling a lever when you will not be over the target, but did the Führer feel any relief from this?


          You would tell the pilots of the 8th Army our Schweinfurt over the Ruhr ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 12 December 2013 13: 16
        -4
        Quote: Magellan
        They can never fight like heroes. ”

        He was right. request
        1. Magellan
          Magellan 12 December 2013 13: 26
          +1
          Quote: Vladimirets
          He was right.

          Of course

          The leader of the Aryan race, but for some reason black
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 12 December 2013 14: 16
            +2
            Quote: Magellan
            The leader of the Aryan race, but for some reason black

            I could not bear the joy of the upcoming meeting with the Red Army.
        2. Santa Fe
          12 December 2013 19: 33
          +4
          Quote: Vladimirets
          He was right

          Well, tell relatives of Howard Gilmore, the commander of the USS Growler, that he did not manage to get to the hatch and gave the command for an urgent dive (the Japanese destroyers found the submarine in the surface)

          Or to the relatives of Captain McCluskey, who ordered him to continue the search - despite the minimum fuel remaining in the tanks of his group’s planes

          Or to those close to Captain Fleming who rammed the cruiser Mikuma on a burning bomber

          I note the time in how many minutes the cops will save you from the upright beating of the American public
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 12 December 2013 23: 56
            -1
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Well, tell me about it.

            Exceptions only confirm the rule.
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            I note the time in how many minutes the cops will save you from the upright beating of the American public

            Sorry for being rude, but I put on both the cops and the American public. hi
            1. Santa Fe
              13 December 2013 00: 10
              0
              Quote: Vladimirets
              Exceptions only confirm the rule.

              What is the general rule?
              Is it true that in the summer of 1941, 4 million Red Army soldiers surrendered?




              Quote: Vladimirets
              put me on both cops and the American public

              such words do not mean anything without their confirmation in practice. let us leave this attack of unexpected bravado on your conscience.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 13 December 2013 00: 25
                0
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Is it true that in the summer of 1941, 4 million Red Army soldiers surrendered?

                4 million out of 3.2 million, you surrendered more than was available.
                1. Santa Fe
                  13 December 2013 00: 33
                  +1
                  Quote: Setrac
                  4 million of 3.2 million, you surrendered more than you had

                  Are you unfamiliar with a word like "mobilization"?
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 13 December 2013 00: 41
                    0
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Are you unfamiliar with a word like "mobilization"?

                    So say - 4 million civilians, what does the Red Army have to do with it?
                    1. Santa Fe
                      13 December 2013 00: 54
                      0
                      Despite the fact that the Red Army, as well as the US Army or the Wehrmacht, were recruited by the RECRUITMENT method - men from ... to ... were subject to draft (for each country - different requirements, within 17-60 years).
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 13 December 2013 01: 03
                        +1
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Despite the fact that the Red Army, as well as the US Army or the Wehrmacht, were recruited by the RECRUITMENT method - men from ... to ... were subject to draft (for each country - different requirements, within 17-60 years).

                        That is, you need to understand that these 4 million are men of draft age from the recently joined territories, which they did not manage to mobilize, but most likely did not intend to.
                        There were certainly captured Red Army soldiers, but certainly not 4 million in the summer of 1941.
                      2. Santa Fe
                        13 December 2013 01: 13
                        +1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        from recently joined territories

                        Summer has already ended, the 1942 year has begun, and these traitors, from recently joined territories, all surrendered and surrendered (Vyazma disaster, Crimean disaster)

                        it’s not funny to fantasize yourself
                        Quote: Setrac
                        which did not have time to mobilize

                        What does "mobilize" mean in your understanding?
                        Give everyone an Alpha fighter training?

                        The main thing is that all these facts are true for any of the warring countries: the young and old mobilized are yesterday's farmers, workers and workers of the "creative profession", sometimes barely shot and poorly trained. The meat was thrown onto the enemy's meat.
                        So why do you blame the Yankees for Ardenne, forgetting how the Red Army behaved in the first 2 years of the war?


                        American recruits
                      3. Setrac
                        Setrac 13 December 2013 01: 35
                        +1
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        and these traitors, from recently joined territories all surrendered and surrendered

                        Note that I did not call them traitors.
                    2. Amfitsion
                      Amfitsion 13 December 2013 01: 17
                      +2
                      Miraculously, until the end of the 41st in the Red Army was mobilized, taking into account the pre-war army, more than 19 million people in five waves of mobilization. Why jump into a dispute if you do not have the most basic information base? How's the bazaar woman? Only the last word to say?
                    3. Kars
                      Kars 13 December 2013 01: 18
                      +2
                      Quote: Setrac
                      That is, you need to understand that these 4 million are men of draft age from recently joined

                      There were either 700 or 800 thousand I do not remember exactly, but the figure is found.
                      And my grandfather who was captured under Rava-Russian before this Finnish prosol.
    2. Prometey
      Prometey 13 December 2013 07: 55
      -1
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Quote: Magellan
      They can never fight like heroes. ”

      He was right.

      Heroism in the war, soldiers pay for the mistakes of the military leaders.
  • Nayhas
    Nayhas 12 December 2013 12: 36
    +1
    Quote: Standard Oil
    and of course Adolf, who declared war on the Americans just like a pack of nuts opened, walking around, they had a heavy dumbbell hanging around their neck in the form of a war with the USSR and stubborn Great Britain with Che at the head, and then Adolf decided to "add weight" in the form of a powerful industrial power of the world, why?

    Adik did not need a war with the United States, he naively hoped that Japan would at least nominally declare war on the USSR, but the Japanese threw their allies.
  • Gato
    Gato 12 December 2013 15: 43
    +2
    Quote: Standard Oil
    there is doubt about the mental state of the Japanese General Staff

    Yes, they were normal.
    It’s just that the Americans themselves did not leave the Japanese any other choice, cutting off their oil supplies, steel and blocking financial assets (in response to the actions of Japan in China, in which the states had their own interests).
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 12 December 2013 18: 40
      +3
      Quote: Gato
      It’s just that the Americans themselves did not leave the Japanese any other choice, cutting off their oil supplies, steel and blocking financial assets (in response to the actions of Japan in China, in which the states had their own interests).

      The Japanese in China behaved in such a way that they still recall in China about their atrocities. And China will still remember them ...
  • Taoist
    Taoist 12 December 2013 11: 52
    +6
    The power and capabilities of American industry should not be underestimated or exaggerated. Much played a role. But all the same, and first of all, this is the actual absence of wars for almost two centuries. (The United States participated in wars, but did not wage them on its territory. Even during the civil war, the infrastructure did not suffer). And this made it possible to "accumulate fat" - both resource and human. And at the same time, the United States has always been self-sufficient in terms of resources, in contrast to island empires such as Japan and Britain. It was unrealistic to strangle them with a naval blockade. Having such "sources", in principle, the achievements of the United States are not surprising.
    Regarding the issue of "freedom and enterprise" of American business and the "economic miracle" created by it, this factor should not be underestimated either, but it should be borne in mind that in conditions of, for example, Europe or an acute resource shortage, such management methods simply would not work. Therefore, no one in the world has succeeded in simply "adopting the American experience". Using it without taking into account the "local specifics" generally did not lead to anything. Well, modern America is no longer even America of the last century "playing with the iron muscles of factories". % Of GDP created by its own production has slipped "below the floor" - precisely because of "free enterprise" - which is focused on maximizing profits and reducing costs. Detroit's bankruptcy is quite indicative. However, the same fate awaits us - precisely because we blindly chased the "American model" ... China turned out to be wiser.
  • Kars
    Kars 12 December 2013 12: 27
    +6
    _____________________
    1. Magellan
      Magellan 12 December 2013 12: 43
      +4
      Oh, the tank mafia pulled itself up))
    2. Gato
      Gato 12 December 2013 15: 58
      0
      But is that not impressive? :
      1. Magellan
        Magellan 12 December 2013 17: 16
        0
        No.
        Lend-lease amounted to 300% of the domestic auto industry - 450 thousand against 152 thousand cars and trucks produced during the war by Soviet industry
    3. Nexus 6
      Nexus 6 12 December 2013 17: 46
      +1
      Many Americans have riveted "lighters". Ultimately, them, and our "quantitative" approach, won out.
      In this regard, I have a question for respected experts) Many argue that if Germany did not pursue "quality" and produced more T-4s instead of Panthers and Royal Tigers, it would be better for her (Germany).
      Well, I personally am glad of any mistakes of the enemy. Only maybe there was nothing and nothing to make these T-4 in huge quantities? Therefore, they decided to make up for a qualitative advantage?
      1. Santa Fe
        12 December 2013 19: 19
        +3
        Quote: Nexus 6
        Many Americans have riveted "lighters"

        like their Soviet colleagues
        how will the difference between the result of getting the 75 mm Panther BPS in the HF T-34 or Sherman (even though Firefly)? request
        Yes, nothing! The death of the entire crew and the loss of the tank
        1. Gato
          Gato 12 December 2013 23: 18
          +2
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          what will the difference between the result of getting 75 mm BTS Panthers in KV T-34 or Sherman

          Almost nothing. The same as the hit of the 85-mm BS T-34-85 in the Panther.
          Just the right strategy always beats even the most advanced tactics, not to mention the performance characteristics of technology.
          If 3 to 10 allied tanks fall on each unrefilled panzercamp, the characteristics of the former no longer matter.
        2. Kars
          Kars 12 December 2013 23: 32
          +1
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Will the result of getting the 75 mm Panthers of the Panther hit the HF T-34 or Sherman (even though Firefly)?

          Mentioning a firefly is a challenge, and you know that)))

          what can I say KV is more likely to withstand the blow, Firefly is more likely to knock out a panther earlier and from a greater distance.

          what about lighters from
          Quote: Nexus 6
          Many Americans have riveted "lighters".

          That’s nothing more than a myth. The roots of which go back to the moment of rearmament of German forces on the Pak-40 and tanks on long-barreled guns. After that, the T-34 became the same lighters as everyone else (and even a little worse due to the placement of tanks and more explosive ammunition) apply the Shermans in 1941 they would get all the epithets that earned the T-34.

          Quote: Gato
          The same as the hit of the 85-mm BS T-34-85 in the Panther.
          If from the forehead, then the Panther would be very different.



          Quote: Nexus 6
          Well, I personally am glad of any mistakes of the enemy. Only maybe there was nothing and nothing to make these T-4 in huge quantities on?

          Even by the weight of the fours, it would be possible to rivet more. Due to the material consumption (I can lie) the panther (I don’t talk about CT and T) was heavier by 4 -5 times. There were also several times more human hours there.
          1. Santa Fe
            12 December 2013 23: 40
            +1
            Interestingly wrote.

            Then one comrade touched on the topic of the distribution of the BTT Wehrmacht in the West. and the Eastern Front. I attached an interesting plate above - it will not be difficult for you to find it. Check it out
            1. Kars
              Kars 13 December 2013 00: 01
              +1
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              - it’s easy for you to find her

              When I was in my office I downloaded an almost complete selection of Front-line Illustration
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Then one comrade was interested in the distribution of the BTT of the Wehrmacht in the West. and the Eastern Front

              I have others
        3. Nexus 6
          Nexus 6 13 December 2013 15: 52
          0
          ISU-152 hit on the Panther - "The death of the entire crew and the loss of the tank." And so, a separate topic about how many times someone burned, and the repair of damaged cars. Although here production and manufacturability enters.
          http://prazdnik-land.ru/celebrations/den-tankista/stihi/bolvanka-v-tank-udarila/
          1. Kars
            Kars 13 December 2013 16: 09
            +1
            Quote: Nexus 6
            ISU-152 hit on the Panther - "The death of the entire crew and the loss of the tank"

            And why not hit the B-4? What would the ISU-152 hit on the panther you just need great luck.
            Quote: Nexus 6
            And so, a separate topic about how many times someone burned, and repair of damaged cars

            recently came across a figure of 460 restored wrecked Soviet tanks. In the memoirs of one of the Soviet tank designers.
            1. Amfitsion
              Amfitsion 13 December 2013 18: 29
              0
              Not 460, but 000. And not a designer, but from the book by IM Golushko "And the tanks came to life again", a person directly by virtue of his position, who knows what he is writing about. On armored vehicles - about 430 out of 000 German tanks and self-propelled guns, starting in the summer of 7, went to fight the Allies. Here are the detailed numbers:

              http://www.axishistory.com/other-aspects/equipment/145-germany-heer/heer-unsorte
              d / 3413-german-fully-tracked-vehicles-on-the-western-front-1944-1945

              And here is the German Panzerlage of June 15, 1944. Before the start of Bagration - a week.
              1. Kars
                Kars 13 December 2013 18: 42
                +1
                Quote: Amphitious
                Not 460, but 000. And not const

                maybe I don’t remember.

                Quote: Amphitious
                In armored vehicles - about 7 out of 10 German tanks and self-propelled guns, starting in the summer of the 44th, went to fight with the Ally

                and this is a lie.
                plate two comments above.
                1. Amfitsion
                  Amfitsion 13 December 2013 19: 50
                  -2
                  And I remember. what I inform.
                  This is not a lie. The nameplate is static, and the general numbers are dynamic. From which it follows that in the West, armored vehicles were simply irretrievably lost much faster.
                  Ron Clages is the absolute and unconditional authority on Axishistory and Feldgrau, the most authoritative resources on German forces in the world. To refute, you are at least required to deliver BTT to the Eastern Front for months over the same period, with the same detail. I have some numbers. Let’s listen very carefully. And I remember. what I inform.
                  This is not a lie. The nameplate is static, and the general numbers are dynamic. From which it follows that in the West, armored vehicles were simply irretrievably lost much faster.
                  Ron Clages is the absolute and unconditional authority on Axishistory and Feldgrau, the most authoritative resources on German forces in the world. To refute, you are at least required to deliver BTT to the Eastern Front for months over the same period, with the same detail. I have some numbers. Let’s listen very carefully.
                  1. Nexus 6
                    Nexus 6 14 December 2013 12: 52
                    0
                    And where is Ron Clages authority? Die Deutsche Wochenschau? wassat
                    1. Amfitsion
                      Amfitsion 14 December 2013 21: 11
                      0
                      Sorry, but you doos NUMBERS. ARMORED EQUIPMENT. MONTHLY. TYPES. DIVISIONS. ON THE EAST FRONT. Bring it right now. You can not? Then do not be humble. Your unwise stupidity, not bearing exactly any information load is not interesting to anyone. Generally.
                      1. Nexus 6
                        Nexus 6 15 December 2013 01: 46
                        0
                        Quote: Amphitious
                        Sorry, but you doo

                        And what are we, however ..., on the personality we pass))
                        Source: Thomas L. Jentz - Panzertruppen: Germany's Tank Force 1943-1945.
                        PS However, truly wise people would not even throw beads in front of pigs.
                      2. Amfitsion
                        Amfitsion 15 December 2013 02: 14
                        +1
                        And what are you trying to surprise?
                        I also have all the Yents, along with his co-author Hillary Doyle, including. Here, and so everything is clear: tanks were crushed in the West much faster than in the East. According to Jentsu, to the West, from June 44th, 1837 Panthers were sent, plus 144 Panthers to Italy, to the 4th Tank Regiment of the 26th TD. However, permanently and simultaneously, the number of Panthers in the East is always greater (in November, EMNIP, for 700) although they are delivered there less (production numbers are known).
                        The conclusion is obvious: Panther, on average, lived in the East much longer than in the West, where parts of them quickly disappeared. True, it is worth clarifying that eventually some units with the Panthers went to the East, but this does not fundamentally change the picture. This can be compensated by the fact that out of 392 produced Jagdpanter, 320 units, or 80%, went to the Western Front.
                2. Kars
                  Kars 15 December 2013 00: 23
                  +1
                  Quote: Amphitious
                  And I remember. what I inform.

                  but I don’t, as I point out.
                  Quote: Kars
                  memories of someone

                  Quote: Amphitious
                  This is not a lie. The nameplate is static, and the general numbers are dynamic.

                  The real lie.
                  Quote: Amphitious
                  it was simply irretrievably lost much faster.

                  Yes, well, and the ratio with non-combatant ones is also somehow strange then.
                  Quote: Amphitious
                  NUMBERS. ARMORED EQUIPMENT. MONTHLY. TYPES. DIVISIONS. ON THE EAST FRONT. Bring it right now.

                  Quote: Amphitious
                  About 7 out of 10 German tanks and self-propelled guns, starting in the summer of the 44th, went to war with the Allies. Here are the most detailed numbers

                  And they showed one panzerlag)))
                  http://russiainwar.forum24.ru/?1-6-0-00000103-000-0-0-1334082779
                  1. Amfitsion
                    Amfitsion 15 December 2013 01: 09
                    0
                    What is one panzerlag? Don’t you see? And what's that?

                    http://www.axishistory.com/other-aspects/equipment/145-germany-heer/heer-unsorte

                    d / 3413-german-fully-tracked-vehicles-on-the-western-front-1944-1945

                    And yet, why do you bring the panzerlag in mid-January of the 45th as an answer to my panzerlag in mid-June of the 44th?
                    Here are the deliveries of the main types of machines to the Eastern Front for 6 months from June to November 1944:
                    Pz IV - 901
                    Panther - 623
                    Tigers - 247
                    StuG / StuH - 2,741

                    On average, this gives 752 cars per month. With an average monthly production during the same time of 1700 cars.

                    Irretrievable losses during the same time and in the same place amounted to:

                    Pz IV - 524
                    Panther - 429
                    Tigers - 173
                    StuG / StuH - 1,675

                    And this is for you in total for panzerlag, the presence of BTT on the Eastern Front:

                    3 Jan - 3,774
                    12 Jan - 3,560
                    31 May - 3,059
                    15 Sep - 3,481
                    30 Sep - 3,356
                    31 Oct - 3,702
                    15 Nov - 3,739
                    30 Nov - 3,731
                    15 Dec - 3,911
                    30 Dec - 4,067

                    In addition, by January 45th, 8 tank and motorized divisions from the West and from Italy, which, although they had already been beaten and averaged 60-80 tanks and self-propelled guns, had very much shifted the balance of the January panzerlag, which is reflected when In the East, the BTT jumped sharply, while in the West it also dipped sharply. What do not you understand?
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 15 December 2013 01: 47
                      +1
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      On average, this gives 752 cars per month.
                      There is no such thing as an average in relation to the production of German armored vehicles.
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      http://www.axishistory.com/other-aspects/equipment/145-germany-heer/heer-unsorte


                      d / 3413-german-fully-tracked-vehicles-on-the-western-front-1944-1945

                      And what should I understand?
                      This is the result of my attempt to determine which German fully tracked vehicles by type and the quantity that fought in the west from 6 June 1944 through to 8 May 1945. I also wanted to display this data by vehicle type, quantity by month and the assigned unit.

                      The format will be self-explanatory. The month I post vehicle quantities is the month that the unit was in combat with the vehicle rather than the shipping or receipt date by the unit. This was done since many units were refitting in Germany or other locations before entering combat on the western front.

                      Section I - Assault Guns [2,120 units]
                      StuG III = 1,647 units
                      StuG IV = 234 units
                      StuH 42 = 239 units

                      Section II - Self-propelled Artillery [439 units]
                      Wespe = 135 units
                      Hummel = 118 units
                      Grille = 106 units
                      Sturmpanzer IV = 72 units
                      Sturmmörser Tiger = 8 units

                      Section III - Anti-Tank Vehicles [1,733 units]
                      Jagdpanzer 38 (t) [Hetzer] = 784 units
                      Jagdpanzer IV = 357 units
                      Jagdpanther = 320 units
                      Marder III [7.5cm Pak] = 148 units
                      Jagdtiger = 69 units
                      Nashorn = 23 units
                      Marder II [7.62cm Pak] = 21 units
                      Marder II [7.5cm Pak] = 8 units
                      Marder III 7.62cm Pak] = 3 units

                      Section IV - Captured Equipment [285 units]
                      Somua = 52 units
                      Hotchkiss = 45 units
                      Renault 35R = 28 units
                      10.5cm FH auf Hotchkiss = 24 units
                      10.5cm FH auf Lorraine = 24 units
                      Char B2 = 24 units

                      Quote: Amphitious
                      Plus, by January 45th, 8 tank and motorized divisions from the West and from Italy were transferred to the East,

                      Saying you're lying if you don’t bring presence on the Western Front now
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      3 Jan - 3,774
                      15 Nov - 3,739
                      30 Nov - 3,731
                      15 Dec - 3,911
                      30 Dec - 4,067


                      Quote: Kars
                      roughly 7 out of 10 German tanks and self-propelled guns,

                      8,724
                      8,7 ,,,
                      8,7 ...
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      What do not you understand?

                      I understand that you’re lying. Just why it’s awful.
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      From which it follows that in the West, armored vehicles were simply irretrievably lost much faster.
                      Especially in this.
                      For example, the largest failed German operation of the Ardennes of 1800 lost 600 combat vehicles.
                    2. Amfitsion
                      Amfitsion 15 December 2013 02: 05
                      0
                      You should, in theory, understand this:




                      Distribution by month is:
                      1944
                      June = 1,817
                      July = 1,081
                      August = 866
                      September = 1,248
                      October = 651
                      November = 999
                      December = 1,646

                      1945
                      January = 632
                      February = 204
                      March = 316
                      April = 415
                      May = 12

                      Grand total all types = 9,887 units
                      Excluding Italy. Production for the same period - here:
                      http://www.sturmvogel.orbat.com/tankrep.html
                      Table 5 and Exhibit A
                      Having data on production and supply A and B, we can’t add up?

                      ------ On average, this gives 752 cars a month .----
                      (Feyspalm) These are deliveries to the Eastern Front, pos-tav-ki.


                      ----- For example, the largest failed German operation of Arden from 1800 lost 600 military vehicles .-----

                      In fact, everywhere they write not 600 but 800. Secondly, the Ardennes are not the largest losses of BTT, in France they lost much more.
                    3. Kars
                      Kars 15 December 2013 02: 39
                      +1
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      You should, in theory, understand this:

                      It can’t be, so all the same what?
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      --- On average, this gives 752 cars per month .----
                      (Feyspalm) These are deliveries to the Eastern Front, pos-tav-ki.

                      face about the table)))
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      On average, this gives 752 cars per month. With an average monthly production during the same time of 1700 cars.

                      I repeat - there is no such concept on average in relation to the production of German tanks)))
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      In fact, everywhere they write not 600 but 800. Secondly, the Ardennes are not the largest losses of BTT, in France they lost much more.

                      Do not care. You are lying by virtue. And you didn’t say that 7 out of every XNUMX German tanks were burning on the Western Front.
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      . Here, and so everything is clear: tanks smashed in the West much faster

                      This is also that nonsense. If you are such a connoisseur then give the average daily losses on the western and eastern front. And it appears that there were just a few tanks in the West. And how much do you say in France did the Germans lose? How many ladies of the German tank divisions destroyed))
                    4. Kars
                      Kars 15 December 2013 02: 48
                      +1
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      tanks were crumbling in the West much faster

                      ))))))))))
                    5. Kars
                      Kars 15 December 2013 02: 50
                      +1
                      __________ is just grinding so fast.
                    6. Amfitsion
                      Amfitsion 15 December 2013 03: 05
                      0
                      Thank you, interesting signs, but for me they are nothing new.
                      How do they refute my claim in any way?
                      The irretrievable losses of the Wehrmacht’s BTT in the Winter and Spring Campaign of 1944 in the East - 5169 tanks and self-propelled guns, in the Summer-Autumn Campaign - 5423 tanks, self-propelled guns, total 10592 units.
                      Everything fits perfectly.
                    7. Kars
                      Kars 15 December 2013 13: 17
                      +1
                      Quote: Amphitious
                      How do they refute my claim in any way?

                      They completely refute your stories about the fact that tanks on the Western Front destroyed like seeds. And this despite the fact that the Germans surrendered more actively on the Western Front.

                      there is also no evidence that every 7 out of 10 German tanks fought on the western front.

                      At the same time, an interesting question is - where are the tanks that are located on the territory of Germany in the panzerlag and training and formation camps in France?
                    8. Amfitsion
                      Amfitsion 15 December 2013 16: 37
                      0
                      --------- They completely refute your stories about the fact that tanks on the Western Front destroyed like seeds. And this despite the fact that the Germans surrendered more actively on the Western Front .---------

                      Friend, you yourself radically contradict yourself. Even if they gave up there more, does that mean the tanks weren’t lost? We are talking about irretrievable losses - regardless of whether the tanks were destroyed in battle, abandoned during the retreat without hot or at the repair depots - this is called irrevocable loss.
                      I wrote well-known and undisputed data - the Germans lost in the summer-autumn campaign on the Eastern Front - 5423 tanks and self-propelled guns. Of these, the peak of losses is the month of July, 2211 irrevocable cars, which leaves about 5 thousand for the remaining 3,2 months, irrevocable cars, or 770 cars per month on average.
                      You do not know elementary and well-known things, but with a smart look you accuse your opponent of lying. Not good.
                      Considering that in the second half of the year the number of cars in the East varied in approximately the same range, plus or minus a couple of hundreds of cars, the monthly non-return is exactly equal to the number of replenishment - 750-800 cars per month. Total production for the second half of the 44th - 10 tanks and self-propelled guns. In the 000th - another 45.
                      I graphically cited evidence from Ron Klejes, the auror of the fundamental work "Trail of Tigers", who, using, among other things, the data of Walter Spielberger, the largest specialized authority on German armored vehicles, and Jents, showed in detail how many and where armored vehicles were delivered to the Western front. Let's put the question like this: Kledges gives either incorrect data or lies. Yes or no?
  • Nexus 6
    Nexus 6 14 December 2013 12: 46
    0
    Nobody argues, but: "On one of the Panthers, which had almost crawled out into the square, the turret was blown away by the impact of a large-caliber concrete-piercing shell. The second heavy tank burst into a huge fire. And the ISU-152 left their positions immediately." (Loza D.F)
    1. Kars
      Kars 15 December 2013 13: 19
      +1
      Quote: Nexus 6
      "On one of the" Panthers "that has almost crawled into the square

      On Kursk Bulge B-4 hit Ferdinand
      1. Nexus 6
        Nexus 6 15 December 2013 14: 34
        0
        "À la guerre comme à la guerre" In the Artillery Museum there is a photo of T-4 scraps, which also got something like that. The initial message was to SWEET_SIXTEEN-that not always hit and penetration = loss of the tank and crew. Although, these things are obvious ... he already knows of course smile
  • Setrac
    Setrac 12 December 2013 13: 48
    0
    That's all here consider produced tanks, planes, ships. I would like to know how many Americans fired artillery ammunition in comparison with other parties to the conflict. But ammunition is the most significant part of military production.
    The People's Commissariat of Ammunition (NKB) of the USSR was formed on January 11, 1939 ....
    January 1939 The pact with Hitler has not yet been concluded. No one knows what war will be, except for the wise Stalin.

    http://gunm.ru/news/kto_ukral_u_stalina_snarjady/2011-06-11-296

    Stalin's words:
    “Artillery decides the fate of the war, mass artillery ... If you need to give 400-500 thousand shells a day to break the rear of the enemy, break the front line of the enemy so that he cannot sleep, so you can not sleep, you need not to spare shells and ammunition. More shells, more ammunition to give, less people will be lost. If you spare the ammo and shells, there will be more losses ... "
    1. Magellan
      Magellan 12 December 2013 13: 57
      +3
      Quote: Setrac
      I would like to know how many Americans fired artillery ammunition in comparison with other parties to the conflict. But ammunition is the most significant part of military production.

      the annual production of ammunition in the USSR and Germany was ~ 3,5 million tons, in the USA - about 8 million tons.
    2. Eugeniy_369
      Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 21: 03
      0
      Quote: Setrac
      No one knows what war will be, except wise Stalin.

      That’s it .... And I think that’s what it’s Setrac worn from one branch to another ....

      And the thing happened like this:
      One night at strange
      He came to us in the hut
      "Kum" with all the guards.
      I thought the end
      Goodbye obscene ...
      Salted Cucumber
      Kum chewed carefully.
      He will say a word and eat
      The face is all in apathy
      "There was, - he said, - the main convention
      Glorious of our party.
      About China and Laos
      There was a debate

      But the question arose especially
      About the Father and the Genius ".
      Kum was eating a cucumber
      And he finished with flour:
      "It turned out our Father
      Not a father, but a bitch ... "

      Full, brothers, atatuy!
      Memorial service with dancing!
      And statues ordered
      Remove from the station overnight.

      PS Looks like reincarnation of some kind of fan laughing laughing laughing
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 12 December 2013 21: 56
        0
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        That’s what .... And I think that this Setrac is worn from one branch to another ...

        It was a quote from the link that I cited, maybe the author has such humor. But you don’t follow the links that give you. Chukchi is not a reader, Chukchi is a writer.
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        PS Looks like reincarnation of some kind of fan

        You don’t think that I will call you back with all sorts of bad words? You have already shown yourself in all its glory, the words here are superfluous.
        You also say that ten million "guards" won the war.
        1. Eugeniy_369
          Eugeniy_369 12 December 2013 22: 29
          0
          [quote] You do not think that I will call you back all sorts of bad words? You already showed yourself in all its glory, the words here are superfluous. [/ Quote]
          I myself?
          Yes to you fullness
          [Quote]
          And you would not go dear? [/ Quote]
          [/ Quote]
          [quote] Today you praise the USA, and tomorrow you will go to their service. [/ quote]
          Alya 37? V.V. himself Putin said - "We are not 37 years old"
          Well, about the fact that poking a stranger at least is not decent, this will never be a revelation for you. hi
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 12 December 2013 22: 45
            0
            Quote: Eugeniy_369
            Well, about the fact that poking a stranger at least is not decent, this will never be a revelation for you.

            Quote your words, what I wrote without your help I remember.
            Quote: Eugeniy_369
            Dear Comrade Chief Inspector Setrac!

            I can also quote here. Watch yourself.
            Quote: Eugeniy_369
            decently

            This word is not familiar to you.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 12 December 2013 14: 09
    0
    Quote: Magellan
    the annual production of ammunition in the USSR and Germany was ~ 3,5 million tons, in the USA - about 8 million tons.

    Voooot! And how many of these ammunition came under Lend-Lease in the USSR? Who shot these shells?
    1. Nexus 6
      Nexus 6 12 December 2013 17: 34
      +2
      Shells may not have been fired, but artillery gunpowder was supplied in significant quantities. There is even a version of why our automatic rifles were junking - additives in American gunpowder were clogged. There were no such additives in our gunpowders.
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 12 December 2013 14: 59
    +2
    Finally. Photoreport. USA at the turn of 1939-1943 Stories about a beautiful and rich life leave for Hollywood.
    Prettiness is not enough. Everyone lived and worked. Dressed all the same. There are enough wrinkles and calluses. And there is no military action.
    http://oko-planet.su/fail/failphoto/127304-cvetnaya-amerika-1939-1943-posle-depr
    essii.html
    Judging by the girl’s legs, walking without shoes is customary for her.
  • kaktus
    kaktus 12 December 2013 15: 07
    +1
    "- Are you confident in your abilities?

    "I'm sure ... how much is the fleet willing to pay for my ships?"

    So: to whom the war, to whom the mother is relatives. angry
  • Amfitsion
    Amfitsion 12 December 2013 17: 41
    +3
    That's right. Possibilities of American industry of that period.

    "In 1940, the United States adopted a program to re-equip the army. Under this program, the president of the General Motors Corporation (GMC), US Knudsen, was appointed to the National Defense Advisory Committee to organize the necessary work to transfer American industry to military rails.
    In the summer of 1940, in the face of the war that was going on in Europe, no one doubted that very soon a large number of powerful, well-armed tanks would be needed.
    Until now, the U.S. need for tanks was covered by heavy engineering enterprises, but Knudsen, becoming a lieutenant general, reasonably suggested that, apart from the production of armor, there is not much difference between the production of cars and tanks. He agreed with Chrysler Corporation President K. T. Keller that his firm would lease 46 hectares of land in Warren, Michigan, to build a new tank factory that would become an arsenal (state property, but managed by Chrysler).
    M3 medium tanks were manufactured by 5 companies: Chrysler, American Locomotive Company (ALCo), Baldwin Locomotive Works, Prest Steel and Pullman-Standard.
    The production of medium tanks in the USA was continuously increasing and already in 1942 exceeded the production of light tanks. From 1943 - 44 medium tanks began to form the basis of the armored weapons of the American army.
    In total, from June 1940 to August 30, 1945, American industry produced 103 tanks and self-propelled guns. In December 096 it was built 4 tanks - a record monthly production throughout the war for all countries of the world.
    For the 3rd quarter of 1942, 728 self-propelled guns were issued, and for the 4th quarter, 2 units were already issued.
    In the United States, much attention was paid to the production of combat wheeled and half-tracked vehicles. A total of 113 units were produced in the US. "

    Sorry, but a country that is not straining, betrays Xnumx tank per month already in the 42nd (this is more than the output of the USSR, Germany, England, Italy and Japan combined as of the same month) there is nothing to talk about at all. They could produce 10 tanks a month, and more, increasing production exponentially.
  • Amfitsion
    Amfitsion 12 December 2013 18: 28
    +3
    Separately, it is worth refuting, I read, some "spetsYlists", with brains completely washed by Sovagitprop, not burdened with the burden of knowledge. I mean that the United States "rose" to WWII. In fact, by 1913, that is, even before WWI, the United States made up 40% of world industrial production. Even long before that, by 1900, this share was 23,6%. For comparison, Russia - 8,8%; France - 6,8%; Germany - 13,2%.
    By 1917, European countries were borrowing money from the United States (attention!) In the amount of $ 10,350,479,074. Do you know how much gold was in those days? This is 15,5 thousand tons! This is an absolutely fantastic, unimaginable amount. The most interesting thing is that 90% of these debts have never been returned to America. Including Russia, with a debt of $ 192,6 million. This, by the way, is 282 tons of gold, for greater clarity. Not counting the direct costs of the United States itself for getting involved in the "rotten European showdown" - this is another 4,5 billion of the then dollars. Excuse me, what kind of asshole you have to be, what then broadcast, "that America robbed everyone and half the world worked for it?"
    The fun begins later. During industrialization. It is possible at least "with bricks ... s, but the fact remains - the industry of the USSR was practically entirely created by the Americans. Namely, one and a half thousand industrial enterprises. From mining metallurgical giants, machine-building giants to food and light manufacturing enterprises in the USSR, they were designed, built and erected by specialists from the USA. "Gosproektstroy" is the firm of Albert Kahn, and there were many others. The USSR is in many ways an American project created and carefully nurtured by them for their global goals, in this particular case - as a continental counterbalance, in case unification of Europe (in the most dangerous combination, Germany and Britain) against the US In the same way, almost half a century later, they "raised" China as one of the counterweights to the USSR, and the USSR itself gradually merged as unnecessary. They plan a global world order for many decades to come , but there will always be a great number of fools who will, with a clever and not very kind, say that "the rotting tang is about to fall apart." What to take with fools?
    So, sorry for the remark. In the 30s, the USSR and the USA were the largest trading partners. The USSR suspended industrialization and canceled a number of orders - the money ran out. Completely. To the dregs. There was no gold left in the country at all - it was swept clean. However, by the mid-30s, the USSR still owed the United States nearly 700 million dollars for previous contracts. This is almost 900 tons of gold at prices that the USSR did not have stupidly.
    E I realize that now a crowd of pins will arrive, but yes it doesn’t matter, it's all playful. All figures and facts are verifiable and publicly available.
    1. bairat
      bairat 12 December 2013 18: 56
      +4
      I also add: WW2 began in 1939, this did not prevent the USSR from trading with Germany. How can one demand from the Allies the opening of a second front if you yourself supplied the Germans with raw materials and materials the day before?
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 12 December 2013 19: 17
        +1
        Maybe this is not true?
        http://oko-planet.su/history/historysng/107764-ssha-biznes-vo-vremya-vtoroy-miro
        voy-s-nacistami.html
        "... after the United States entered World War II on December 11, 1941, American corporations continued to actively fulfill orders from firms of enemy countries and actively supported the activities of their branches in Germany, Italy and even Japan, whose planes bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 - main However, for the American tycoons, money was above all, which they proved during the Second World War, collaborating with the formal enemies of America. To do this, it was only necessary to obtain a special permit to conduct business with companies under Nazi control or their allies.
        The decree of US President Franklin Roosevelt of December 13 of December 1941 allowed such transactions and the Americans to conduct business with enemy companies, unless there was a special ban on the US Treasury. American corporations very often and without problems received such permission, supplying formal enemies with much-needed topics such as steel, engines, aviation fuel, rubber, and radio components. The benefit was mutual: warring Germany received the raw materials and goods necessary for its industry, American companies received superprofits from transactions with the enemy. Thus, the American oil monopoly Standard Oil, belonging to the Rockefeller family, which produced, transported, refined oil and marketed petroleum products, regularly supplied Hitler Germany with fuel and synthetic rubber during the war years. Deliveries also went to Italy and Austria. At the same time - the most interesting! - In the United States during the war years, there were serious problems with the supply of synthetic rubber for American industry. In the case of Germany, there were no problems ...
        .Already during the Nuremberg trials, the former president of the Imperial Bank, Hjalmar Schacht, said in an interview with an American lawyer: “If you want to indict industrialists who helped rearm Germany, you must indict yourself. You will be required to indict the Americans. The Opel automobile plant, for example, did not produce anything other than military products. Owned this factory, your General Motors..."
        1. Amfitsion
          Amfitsion 13 December 2013 18: 19
          0
          Well, I still can't help but laugh when I've been reading for many years now such opuses from the victims of sovko-analytegas, Purginyan, Khazin, Starikov and other clowns. Standard Oil was back in 1911, by the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890, was split into 34 completely independent companies. By this fact alone, the cave "Rashko-conspiracy theorists" (in the worst sense of this definition, can not be applied to all normal Russians) can be drained into the toilet.
    2. ImPerts
      ImPerts 12 December 2013 18: 57
      +2
      Quote: Amphitious
      Actually, by the 1913 year, that is, even before the WWII, the USA is 40% of world industrial production. Even long before that, by the 1900 year, this share was 23,6%. For comparison, Russia - 8,8%; France - 6,8%; Germany - 13,2%.

      The funny thing is that the numbers are different. What data did you use? This is the 1 question. And 2. Why did the leader of industrial and production in general refuse gold support for his currency?
      I will not even demand a list of one and a half thousand enterprises. And about the project to counterbalance ... too, figs with these fantasies. I'm generally interested in how the US will provide its "green fantasies"? They cannot use gold, other things ... Do they exist?
    3. Volkhov
      Volkhov 12 December 2013 20: 28
      -2
      The USSR and the PRC are an American product, the basis of the system of Zionism, and in the transition to systemic thinking, many political paradoxes become clearer.
      There is a second system - a counterweight, which has relied on reason and quality and is now moving forward.
    4. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 12 December 2013 23: 26
      +1
      Quote: Amphitious
      E I realize that now a crowd of pins will arrive, but yes it doesn’t matter, it's all playful. All figures and facts are verifiable and publicly available.

      Blessed is he who believes.
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 12 December 2013 20: 32
    0
    The formation of reality and other delights of the info war:
    http://www.kp.ru/daily/26171.4/3057508/
    "... And it was already clear that the second Stalingrad from Stalin's hometown would not work ..."
  • Orang
    Orang 12 December 2013 21: 59
    +4
    Good article. America at that time was an industrial and scientific giant, a role model for the whole world, including the USSR. Veterans in their memoirs note the excellent quality of the equipment supplied by Lend-Lease. His wife’s grandfather fought on Sherman, in comparison with our limousine tanks (I know who and in what conditions made our tanks).
    The highest standard of living. An impressive boost thanks to Roosevelt's reforms. Two different people who went to war in America told how they were struck by their standard of living, but they did not see the areas where the aristocracy lives. These uncles were not kitchen dissidents, both communists and all their lives worked on their hands and heads. You can believe them.
    It is not clear why some perceive all this as some kind of insult to the USSR, belittling the leading role of the USSR in the Victory. We have our own destiny, they have their own.
  • Alf
    Alf 12 December 2013 22: 13
    -1
    Quote: Samuray
    What is stopping Russia from turning on its printing press?

    Lack of permission from the Washington Regional Committee for its inclusion. Where, in which state, under whose command is the Stabilization Fund. Look at the conditions of entry into the WTO, where it says that Russia does not have the right to use its own stabilization fund without the permission of Wall Street.
  • pRofF
    pRofF 12 December 2013 22: 14
    +4
    But in my simple opinion - a good article. Cognitive, lively, with humor - as always with O. Kaptsov. And as always on a grand scale) I learned a lot of new things. But Ford in general along the way turns out a kind of copy of Disney - in the sense of its attitude to employees. In general, thanks to Oleg!
  • Alf
    Alf 12 December 2013 22: 31
    +2
    Quote: Beck
    “During the war, the USSR received 18 (according to other sources, 700) aircraft from the allies for lend-lease assistance, including the Aerocobra, Kitty Hauck, Tomahawk, Hurricane fighters, and B medium bombers. 22, A-200 Boston, transport C-25, 20 tanks and self-propelled units, 47 thousand kilometers of telephone wire, 12 million telephones; 200 million pairs of boots, more than 100 thousand tons of leather for sewing shoes, 2,5 thousand meters wool, 15 thousand tons of stewed meat, 50 thousand tons of fat, 54 thousand tons of cow oil, 250 thousand tons of sugar, 300 steam locomotives, 65 cisterns on wheels, 700 electric diesel locomotives, about a thousand self-unloading cars, 1860 thousand railway platforms. the front and rear from the allies delivered 100 thousand tons of explosives, almost 70 million tons of oil products, and another 10 million tons of special steel for armor, 344 thousand tons of copper and bronze, 2 thousand tons of aluminum. it was possible to build 2,5 thousand ist fighters and bombers - almost as many as our aircraft factories produced them throughout the war "

    Remind, please, from what period did mass deliveries from the states begin? In the 41st year, at the most critical moment, supplies from the United States were minimal, and the main help went from the summer of the 42nd, when it became clear that the USSR would not fall.
    1. Kars
      Kars 12 December 2013 23: 01
      +1
      Quote: Alf
      It began in the summer of 42, when it became clear that the USSR would not fall.

      well, you exaggerate. In the best case, this could be clear at the final stage of the Battle of Stalingrad, but it was clear after the Kursk Bulge. Then I think everyone had a fresh memory of the Kharkov catastrophe, and the Fritz were not so far from the Caucasian oil and the overlap shipping on the Volga.

      not to mention that the Americans officially entered the war only on December 7 1941
    2. Beck
      Beck 12 December 2013 23: 11
      +2
      Quote: Alf
      Remind, please, from what period did mass deliveries from the states begin?


      Yes, how could from that time and began to deliver. What is the fault for it now? (I asked my neighbor for a loan, he said that he couldn’t, but he would give it tomorrow. And I told him, well, you bastard). At first, weapons and ammunition were mainly supplied. When the allies became convinced that the USSR would be able to wage a long-term war, raw materials became the main lend-lease.
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 13 December 2013 06: 53
    0
    Yes, great wealth and a high standard of living ...
    Children of seasonal workers at Rambler Park. They've been on the road for three years now, Yakima, WA, 1939

    And many more:
    http://www.stena.ee/blog/deti-ameriki-pervoj-poloviny-20-go-veka-foto
  • Takashi
    Takashi 13 December 2013 08: 59
    +2
    I liked the way to Alaska. Maybe we also need it. ? To Kamchatka, Yakutia, Magadan. Send over the hull, over the summer they will do.

    And here are the pictures, the girls are amazed - the hair is laid!
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 13 December 2013 15: 14
    0
    The photograph that came to be known as "Working Mother" is one of a series of photographs taken by Dorothea Lange in February or March 1936 in Nipomo, California. Lange traveled for about a month and photographed migrant workers across the state. In 1960, Lange spoke of this experience: “I saw and approached a hungry and desperate mother as if to a magnet. I do not remember how I explained my presence or my cameras, but I remember she asked me not to ask questions. did five expositions, working closer and closer from the same direction. I did not ask her name or her story. She told me that she was thirty-two. She said that they lived on frozen vegetables from the surrounding fields, and birds, that her children managed to kill her.She had just sold her tires from her car to buy food.So she sat in this tent with her children who were huddled around her, and seemed to know that my photos could help her, and she helped me.
  • Edvid
    Edvid 9 March 2018 07: 18
    0
    Quote: Magellan
    Quote: Vladimirets
    We needed land weapons, how many riveted T-34?

    As many as Shermans

    The Yankees produced more armored vehicles than the USSR and the Third Reich combined
    200+ tanks, self-propelled guns, armored personnel carriers, LVT (amphibious tracked armored personnel carriers for the Marine Corps) and special equipment based on tank chassis (bridgelayers, ARVs, MLRS, etc.)
    Their quality is evidenced by the fact that only Guards units were armed with Lend-Lease Shermans (the USSR supplied the mod. M4A2 with a diesel engine - a variant of the US Marine Corps).

    Having the same security, mobility and firepower in comparison with the T-34, “Sherman” possessed a number of remarkable qualities:
    - accurate and reliable hydraulic drive of the tower - in any dueling situation, Sherman’s shot was the first
    - less noise
    - heavy machine gun 12,7 mm
    - ergonomics of the fighting compartment, unprecedented for the Soviet BTT, and amenities for the crew to work - less tanker fatigue, higher rate of fire
    - finally, the build quality and equipment of the American car became legendary (electric tiles, tank suits, leatherette seats - which were cut off to boots, etc.)

    /////////////////////////////////////////////////
    ////////
    Another of the advantages of “Sherman”: more spacious (compared with the T-34) tower; a radio station on each tank; winter heating for the crew; excellent optics; such a “trifle” - on each tank a set of tools and small spare parts; most importantly, if the Sherman was set on fire in battle, then his shells never detonated (always detonated from all other countries). Thanks to the latter, in the offensive, Soviet tankers loaded a double set of shells, placing them even outside, and the crew, having got out through the lower hatch, under the burning Sherman, remained alive. For a thousand Sherman tanks, their losses compared to the T-34 were half that.