Military Review

India dissatisfied with participation in the creation of the 5 generation fighter

124

India has expressed its dissatisfaction with the low level of its participation in the joint Russian-Indian program to create the X-NUMX FGFA generation fighter (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft).


Indian Defense Minister Akaparambil Anthony during his visit to Moscow said that India’s share in the design and production of the 5 fighter generation, which is currently at the prototype level, should be 50 percent. This was announced by the American weekly “Defense News” with reference to the statement of the Indian Ministry of Defense, which pays special attention to the development of this program, as well as to the Russian-Indian project to create a multi-purpose transport aircraft, considering them quite important.

Currently, India's share in the development of the 5th generation fighter is 15 percent. According to representatives of the Russian Foreign Ministry, this is due to the limited Indian capabilities in the development of the military aviation and the general level of development of the country's industry. It is assumed that as Indian capabilities grow, the country's share in the program for creating a new fighter will increase.

In 2007, Russia and India signed an agreement to jointly develop an 5 generation fighter that will be used in the air forces of both countries. In December, Rosoboronexport, Sukhoi, and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), an Indian aircraft manufacturing company, signed a preliminary contract worth $ 2010 million. It is expected that the total amount of the final agreement on the joint development of the aircraft will exceed 295 billion dollars. This transaction is not yet concluded.

According to the Russian side, the delay in signing the final contract will have a small effect on the pace of development of the program. Currently, 5 flying prototypes of a promising aviation front-line aviation complex (PAK FA), also known as an 5-generation fighter, have been created.

The Indian Ministry of Defense, by contrast, stated that the agreement would probably be signed after the change of leadership of the country as a result of elections to be held at the beginning of 2014. The new leadership of India was committed to all international obligations. At the same time, representatives of the military circles of this country noted, much will depend on the country's share in this project.

Currently, it is assumed that the Indian Air Force will order over 200 5-generation two-engine 50 fighters, based on the Sukhoi T-XNUMX (PAK FA) aircraft and which will meet the requirements of this country's air force.

The Indian Air Force official said that the prototype of the Russian 5 generation aircraft flew this year, but emphasized that India’s participation in the development of the project is minimal. The unobtrusive 5 generation fighter with 30 t mass will be a multi-purpose aircraft with advanced avionics, high-tech weapons and the most advanced electronics.

The commissioning of the final version of this aircraft was postponed from 2020 to at least 2022, according to representatives of the Indian Air Force. India hoped to get three versions of the aircraft in the 2014, 2017 and 2019, and the final version of the 5 generation fighter was supposed to go into service in 2020.

According to Indian analysts, India should not miss the opportunity to participate in high-tech projects like the one mentioned above.
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/
124 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 3 December 2013 11: 57
    +7
    India expressed its dissatisfaction with the low level of its participation in the joint Russian-Indian program to create a 5th generation fighter FGFA
    The problem of course needs to be solved, but something obviously they are in a hurry. After all, it is clear that until there is a T50, and this project will not go anywhere ...
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 3 December 2013 12: 39
      28

      Indian Defense Minister Akaparambil Anthony during his visit to Moscow said that India’s share in the development and production of the 5 generation fighter, which is currently at the prototype level, should be 50 percent.

      And India has the technology, at least 5 percent, to create it?
      Do not like it, to hell with the beach.
      1. viruskvartirus
        viruskvartirus 3 December 2013 13: 06
        10
        For that, they have money, and you must agree that it is equally important.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 3 December 2013 14: 07
          +8
          Quote: viruskvartirus
          For that, they have money, and you must agree that it is equally important.

          And Russia has no money laughing Although considering that you from Ukraine sincerely understand your koment wink
          1. dimjet
            dimjet 3 December 2013 20: 37
            20
            No need for money. Many in the east of Ukraine are proud of achievements in Russia. Just cooperation speeds up the development process.
        2. Stiletto
          Stiletto 3 December 2013 14: 17
          11
          Quote: viruskvartirus
          For that, they have money, and you must agree that it is equally important.


          Yeah, is there money ?! BUT! That's it! India is unhappy that it gives little money to create the T-50. So this is just amazing! It is impossible, it is impossible to refuse the Indian comrades! fellow
          1. Jurkovs
            Jurkovs 3 December 2013 15: 15
            20
            We are not talking about money, but about the admission of Indian corporations to the development of the aircraft, which means access to documentation and the ability to steal technology before the order for aircraft is paid. All Indians want is for us to share information with them. But: in the morning money, in the evening chairs.
          2. Scoun
            Scoun 3 December 2013 15: 53
            +5
            Quote: Stiletto
            It is impossible, it is impossible to refuse the Indian comrades!

            Exactly! ))) financially bring their share to 50% and give them for "development" the color of the upholstery of the chair, font size and color of marking of parts, but with a mandatory requirement, as a result, for each item, put 20 options for consideration, otherwise they will start to insert the canary color and font 2-ku)))
            ahhh and another rollback from them to get it)))
          3. Ivan.
            Ivan. 3 December 2013 22: 12
            +1
            Quote: Stiletto
            India is unhappy that it gives little money to create a T-50. So this is just amazing! It is impossible, it is impossible to refuse the Indian comrades!

            It is really incomprehensible, the main difficulty in creating an airplane is not money at all, it is a matter of limited time, the absence of a leading position in some areas that can be filled in India, the absence of a sufficient number of specialists, etc. In general, I think the desired real (rather than financial) participation of India in the project is no more than 15%. If they give the remaining interest with money, then they will profit on them - why borrow if you have money, because you have to return it with interest.
        3. AVV
          AVV 3 December 2013 15: 33
          +5
          And India does not want to take part in printing money, but in the development of the aircraft by 50% !!! Well, they would have set tasks for them in the development of any units, but for failure to complete the task on time a greater fine !!! They do not want to get a license for production of a finished copy, but they themselves want to participate in the design of the U-2, but their U-2 !!! And the flag is in their hands !!!
      2. avt
        avt 3 December 2013 14: 41
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And India has the technology, at least 5 percent, to create it?
        Do not like it, to hell with the beach.

        Yes, they suddenly forgot something, well, so we need to make their new chant learn - "Hari will crack."
        Quote: viruskvartirus
        They have money for that,

        We’ll do an airplane, even if they’re buying, they can even collect from it, like MiGs.
      3. clidon
        clidon 3 December 2013 16: 28
        0
        From the beach clutching 10 billion dollars in a suitcase? We are throwing.
      4. Botanologist
        Botanologist 3 December 2013 16: 30
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And India has the technology, at least 5 percent, to create it?


        But India has the ancient technology of cuts and kickbacks, which they want to use on this order. Do not forget the old slogan - it is not victory that matters, but participation tongue
      5. Skiff
        Skiff 3 December 2013 16: 31
        10
        Well, yes, they have not been able to collect their tank and fighter for 20 years by the whole world, and here 50% belay , where do they come from, gentlemen the Indians are getting dark, they want to have a technological backlog for free, which we have been creating for decades. And not everything is decided by money.
        1. avt
          avt 3 December 2013 16: 52
          +4
          Quote: Skiff
          Well, yes, they have not been able to collect their tank and fighter for 20 years by the whole world

          So what ,
          Quote: Skiff
          and here 50% belay, where do they come from, gentlemen Hindus are dark,

          And they keep the oral tradition of the secret technology of flying vimanavas. laughing They want to share it, but the northern barbarians persist in their ignorance and stubbornly build the T-50
          1. maxvet
            maxvet 3 December 2013 19: 29
            +4
            Quote: avt
            And they keep the oral tradition of the secret technology of flying vimanavas.

            they need to send our specialist for vimans-Prokopenko, let each other's brain wink
            1. Atlas
              Atlas 4 December 2013 10: 39
              0
              Prokopenko will be able to wash them in))))) He also can not undo it ..
      6. Nick
        Nick 3 December 2013 20: 00
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And India has the technology, at least 5 percent, to create it?

        In some respects, India is at a very high level. In avionics, for example ... Yes, I bought the technology from the French, but it produces it on my own.
        By the way, on modern aircraft, avionics is up to 35% of the cost
  2. queen
    queen 3 December 2013 12: 03
    17
    The fact that they want it is the success of the T-50. Hindus have become programmers, so it has something that we do not need to know)
    1. APES
      APES 3 December 2013 14: 38
      +8
      Quote: regin
      then it has something we don’t need to know)


      and to Hindus all the more wink
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. clidon
      clidon 3 December 2013 16: 27
      0
      You might think that before the Indians were altruists.
  3. queen
    queen 3 December 2013 12: 07
    21
    And I think that they liked the coloring of the fifth ... beautiful same)
    1. alexng
      alexng 3 December 2013 12: 43
      +3
      Rumor has it that an air-to-air missile with a built-in radar with AFAR is already being tested for him, and this is no longer "khury-muhry".
      1. queen
        queen 3 December 2013 13: 05
        +7
        Quote: alexneg
        Radar station with AFAR, and this is no longer "khury-muhry".

        Guys, what he has should not be PR. We are not such a poor country. It would be better if there was a surprise for them in a collision, and let them break their heads.
      2. viruskvartirus
        viruskvartirus 3 December 2013 13: 20
        +6
        AFAR of such dimensions? It is doubtful here AFAR on know-how aircraft, you can still believe that on long-range missiles for the C-400.

        "In June 2005, the Moscow Research Institute" Agat "demonstrated a prototype of an active radar homing head, which claims to be the smallest in the world." http://www.siagat.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view = article & id = 81:
        smiaugust05 & catid = 7: smi & Itemid = 21
      3. tilovaykrisa
        tilovaykrisa 3 December 2013 13: 27
        +7
        This refers to a rocket with a range of 400km? If so, then this is no longer Khuhra Muhra, but a tram pam pam directly.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 4 December 2013 00: 25
          +2
          Quote: tilovaykrisa
          This refers to a rocket with a range of 400km? If so, then this is no longer Khuhra Muhra, but a tram pam pam directly.

          They promise, but the promised 3 of the year is expected.
          "The T-50 has a large internal weapons compartment. It can house up to eight R-77 air combat missiles or two huge guided bombs weighing 1500 kg."
          The fighter is capable of carrying two ultra-long-range missiles developed by the Novator Bureau on external sling. With these T-50 missiles capable of destroying aircraft, such as AWACS, at a range of up to 400 km "... http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/T-50.html
      4. Nayhas
        Nayhas 3 December 2013 16: 09
        -1
        Quote: alexneg
        Rumor has it that an air-to-air missile with a built-in radar with AFAR is already being tested for him, and this is no longer "khury-muhry".

        Think what you write. AFAR in an air-to-air rocket? In case of a miss, will the missile be returned to the carrier? wink
        1. iSpoiler
          iSpoiler 3 December 2013 16: 25
          +4
          Yeah, she’ll fly back, dock with the plane, refuel and fly to shoot down again ..))))
          Do you even think Cho write .... !!!
      5. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 4 December 2013 00: 21
        +1
        Quote: alexneg
        Rumor has it that an air-to-air missile with a built-in radar with AFAR is already being tested for him, and this is no longer "khury-muhry".

        Right! This is already something worthwhile, and very expensive, but they say it's worth it.
        "K-77M air-to-air missile for the front-line fighter, the T-50 will receive an advanced targeting system. Homing missiles with an antenna based on a digital active phased array will guarantee to hit an airplane or missile from the first launch. The new radar will provide an instant response to a sudden maneuver of a missile target, and will also increase compatibility with digital systems of fifth-generation fighters.
        The advanced missile homing system will be developed by the Detal design bureau of the Tactical Missile Weapons Corporation ...
        The main advantage of the K-77M missile will be to keep the target and adjust to its maneuvers. Due to the large number of radiating elements of the lattice, the locator receives more accurate information about the position of the enemy, processing the signal from each cell.
        This radar element is usually installed on aircraft, including the T-50, and air defense systems. Despite the development of technology and the constant decrease in production costs, phased arrays remain expensive locators, which casts doubt on the feasibility of their single use in missiles. Nevertheless, getting such a missile on an enemy aircraft will pay back many times both production and possible damage ...
        According to the plans of UPKB Detal, the start of production will begin no earlier than February 2015 ".
        http://izvestia.ru/news/561643#ixzz2mRaPhFrv
    2. Lyapis
      Lyapis 3 December 2013 13: 01
      11
      The coloring, of course, is valid, but the Indians will probably have this: wink
      1. queen
        queen 3 December 2013 13: 08
        +4
        Quote: regin
        but the Indians will probably have this

        you + ... in the parades is possible ... but as I wrote above ... they became pragmatists ...
      2. Igor39
        Igor39 3 December 2013 15: 54
        +2
        More flowers are hung even laughing
      3. maxvet
        maxvet 3 December 2013 19: 37
        +9
        Quote: Lyapis
        The coloring, of course, is valid, but the Indians will probably have this:

        looking at the tank is scary to think what they will do with the plane laughing
      4. Cherdak
        Cherdak 3 December 2013 20: 59
        +2
        And on top they are even funnier
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 3 December 2013 23: 28
          0
          Quote: Cherdak
          And on top they are even funnier
          And what's on top, does the vertical-draft fan follow the F-35 model in the STOVL variant? wassat
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 4 December 2013 08: 59
            +1
            No, it’s their national emblem, the color of the flag was timed to some anniversary. The usual ostentatious coloring.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Cherdak
      Cherdak 3 December 2013 20: 16
      +2


      50-5 arrived in Zhukovsky
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 4 December 2013 09: 04
        +1
        And I was the first in the first flight over Komsomolsk (at the time of entering the Dzemgi airfield), then I also accidentally saw the third and fourth samples in the same place. An indescribable feeling, although the flight of any aircraft is a miracle.
  4. Russ69
    Russ69 3 December 2013 12: 07
    18
    Quote: svp67
    After all, it is clear that until there is a T50, and this project will not go anywhere ...

    Hindus, they just want to squeeze out more technology ...
    1. Airman
      Airman 3 December 2013 12: 12
      +9
      Quote: Russ69
      Quote: svp67
      After all, it is clear that until there is a T50, and this project will not go anywhere ...

      Hindus, they just want to squeeze out more technology ...

      For free. It is good that the Chinese were not invited to this project.
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 3 December 2013 12: 19
        +6
        Why for free? Half their money. They have a right.
        1. Airman
          Airman 3 December 2013 12: 24
          +8
          Quote: chunga-changa
          Why for free? Half their money. They have a right.

          You cannot buy scientific potential with money, if they (the Indians) had it, they would have created it themselves, but "would" interfere.
          1. queen
            queen 3 December 2013 12: 32
            +2
            Quote: Povshnik
            if he had them (Indians) was

            When there will be 1 billion Slavs, then India will become a native
          2. chunga-changa
            chunga-changa 3 December 2013 13: 27
            +1
            Scientific potential remains potential without money. Like, oh, if we had the money, then we would, mind the "would" and here rules.
            1. complete zero
              complete zero 3 December 2013 15: 08
              +2
              plus as it is right if yes, as it were, grandmother would be a grandfather
        2. Deniska
          Deniska 3 December 2013 16: 07
          +2
          Partly true. But it’s one thing when they allocate money for development in order to then buy the latest model of equipment, and another thing is to give a day and get the technology. !!!!! Think what’s best for us.
        3. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 4 December 2013 00: 39
          +2
          Quote: chunga-changa
          Why for free? Half their money. They have a right

          Previously, there was information that Indians would finance the project and the avionics software. There wasn’t any other in the press. But then the Indians suddenly made friends with the Yankees against the PRC. Therefore, apparently, very secrets are needed ... Although they obviously do not have the capabilities to design the 4 + and 5 generation fighters, as there are no developments at the level of the Russian Federation (USA).
      2. Cherdak
        Cherdak 3 December 2013 20: 22
        +3
        Quote: Povshnik
        It is good that the Chinese were not invited to this project.


        Then it would certainly be stuck on the excursion project, since the Indians are still casting out in mock-ups
    2. Migari
      Migari 3 December 2013 12: 17
      +4
      That's for sure, you still need to take into account the ratio of contribution to the latest technology and development, and not everyone can share it.
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 3 December 2013 13: 34
        +2
        Joint development is not from a good life. If the state finances 100% of the development of the SU-50 then the Indians would not have to turn to. And so, you will begin to clamp down on the most important technologies, next time they will say - buoy you and not money, but the state will say, an invisible hand is around, spin yourself, there is no money. The result, all lollipops, and the money is floating to those who are trickier ..
    3. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 3 December 2013 13: 28
      +3
      Have seen enough of how China is with us, and not only the technology has been pressed free then.
    4. typhoon7
      typhoon7 3 December 2013 15: 12
      +3
      I agree. Avionics, engines, that's most likely what they are torn to.
    5. Cherdak
      Cherdak 3 December 2013 20: 07
      +2
      Quote: Russ69
      scared to think what they will do with the plane


      Let Amers learn how to bring to absurdity
  5. ZU-23
    ZU-23 3 December 2013 12: 12
    +9
    Indians don’t be upset, we will teach you. The main thing is to behave in a friendly manner and do not betray friends, it seems as long as you do it.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. alekseinew
      alekseinew 3 December 2013 16: 48
      +3
      yes, of course, they are very heavily crouched on American weapons, and we have lost a lot in recent years, so what are they friends, partners with a stretch, I would say so
  6. Pesnyadv
    Pesnyadv 3 December 2013 12: 17
    14
    Quote: ZU-23
    Indians don’t be upset, we will teach you. The main thing is to behave in a friendly manner and do not betray friends, it seems as long as you do it.


    The desire of India is understandable and understandable.
    It’s kind to look into their eyes and kindly ask how they imagine it 50 to 50?
    How equal is the contribution of the parties to these developments?
    1. queen
      queen 3 December 2013 12: 28
      0
      Quote: PesnyaDV
      How equal is the contribution of the parties to these developments?

      And how many states have invested in the Fu-35? They all say anyway ... but what's the point? Right ... who needs to be cut ... building a mediocre fighter is not difficult, but building it is better is difficult ... something like this Simonov said.
      1. avant-garde
        avant-garde 3 December 2013 12: 42
        -2
        Quote: regin
        And how many states have invested in the Fu-35?

        oh by the way, and where are the hamsters who idolize this very FU-35, there are so many hawks, there’s already a phrase:
        The commissioning of the final version of this aircraft was postponed from 2020 to at least 2022.
    2. S-200
      S-200 3 December 2013 12: 28
      +1
      Quote: PesnyaDV
      It’s kind to look into their eyes and kindly ask how they imagine it 50 to 50?
      How equal is the contribution of the parties to these developments?

      The way it is ! "fifty-fifty" ...
      After all, most of the time the plane spends not in the air but on the ground!
      We have designed "invisibility" for radars in the air, and the Indians must design camouflage mats to cover the plane on the ground "from the evil eye" ... This is their worthy contribution to military-technical cooperation!
      PS "Om mane padme hum!"
    3. ZU-23
      ZU-23 3 December 2013 12: 33
      0
      Ha, I also can’t imagine, but they did BrahMos, maybe our engines and aerodynamics on their part.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 3 December 2013 12: 47
        +4
        in India, by the way, its own Silicon Valley is not weak, so it’s possible to work with them in terms of elemental base.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 4 December 2013 00: 49
          +1
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          in India, by the way, its own Silicon Valley is not weak, so it’s possible to work with them in terms of elemental base.

          Yes, most likely we have a calculation for this, since Indians annually sell software for 1 billion dollars.
    4. Cherdak
      Cherdak 3 December 2013 18: 06
      +1
      Quote: PesnyaDV
      How equal is the contribution of the parties to these developments?



      Go to http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/military-aviation/8276-sukhoi-pak-fa-fgfa-fif
      th-generation-fighter-aircraft-206.html - Indians there are not childishly chopped with the involvement of Russians and Ukrainians. Sincerely so. Information creeps across your screech
      1. Mirgip
        Mirgip 4 December 2013 00: 15
        0
        An interesting forum, Hindus have time to fight both the Chinese and the Americans - thanks for the reference, it’s extremely funny :)
    5. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 3 December 2013 21: 20
      0
      Quote: PesnyaDV
      how do they imagine it 50 to 50?

      To be honest ?, then 50-50, when our brains and production base are ours, and the money for everything is everything, completely theirs, then we could talk about parity in the division of the final product and then, with reservations on the regime of secrecy and legal registration of risks and insurance on the leak of technological and other information through the fault of the partner. Any other proportions in the project should provide our side with priority conditions in sharing profits and disposing of a joint final product. From so I think.
  7. Wiruz
    Wiruz 3 December 2013 12: 18
    15
    But how many India wants? At first, she refused to participate in the development of the PAK FA, then she wanted to buy the Raptors from the USA, then, sent by the Americans to hell, she again expressed interest in the PAK FA. Now here comes the saying that they do everything without us but for our money.
    1. queen
      queen 3 December 2013 18: 46
      0
      Quote: Wiruz
      But how many India wants?

      with a real threat, it will be zero
    2. clidon
      clidon 3 December 2013 18: 52
      +2
      India did not abandon the development of the PAK FA, and it did not deal with the Raptors. Delhi offered to join the F-35 program, which the Indians refused.
      1. Wiruz
        Wiruz 3 December 2013 20: 10
        0
        Well, two options - either you are mistaken, or Wikipedia smile
        1. clidon
          clidon 3 December 2013 21: 02
          +1
          You read how it is written on Wikipedia. If my memory doesn’t betray me at all, there is something like this presentation style:
          Poghosyan, picking with a fork, at dinner at the embassy offers the Hindus a PAK FA (we have a good plane here), to which they say, "We don't have too many engines." From which Poghosyan draws the conclusions "They obviously want to buy the Raptor (this despite the fact that they do not sell it to anyone at all) or the F-2 (which, by the way, was actually offered to the Indians, but did not agree on the volume of transferred technologies)!"
          And then the Indians broke off and ran to us. ) If you had exactly this information from Wikipedia, then yes, there is nonsense written there.
  8. slovak007
    slovak007 3 December 2013 12: 28
    +3
    Pure water industrial espionage. The same as the Chinese spent from -95 to 2005. At our university, they scanned all the diplomas, manuals, dissertations, books, patents, xeril, bought ...
    1. Algor73
      Algor73 3 December 2013 12: 44
      0
      What does industrial espionage have to do with it? India pays money, 50%, and is fully entitled to 50% of the development. But this is theoretical. It's just that India was crushed by the "toad", it does not want to sponsor the development of a foreign country's industry. Sooner or later, but India will follow the Chinese version of development, it will stop simply buying equipment, it will buy it with the possibility of production in the future.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 3 December 2013 15: 51
        +2
        Quote: Algor73
        Sooner or later, but India will follow the Chinese version of development, it will stop just buying equipment, it will buy it with the possibility of production in the future at home.

        She goes
      2. Deniska
        Deniska 3 December 2013 16: 18
        +3
        Nooo ... She is entitled to a 50% return on future contracts, And this is in the best case !!!! And TECHNOLOGIES is a national secret !!!
  9. Ihrek
    Ihrek 3 December 2013 12: 35
    +7
    At the expense of 50%, they certainly went too far. And the question is why they remembered it now. The answer is obvious - because the project can be said to have taken place, the success of which exceeded all expectations. I believe the share of participation should remain at the level previously agreed upon.
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 3 December 2013 12: 44
      +1
      it remains only to bring this to their attention, but so that they are not very offended :)
    2. Wiruz
      Wiruz 3 December 2013 13: 06
      +2
      Do not go too far, exactly 50%. But only in the export model PAK FA - FGFA, and those T-50s that are already flying and those that are still flying are purely a Russian development.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 3 December 2013 15: 52
      0
      Quote: Jamal
      At the expense of 50%, they certainly went too far. And the question is why they remembered it now. The answer is obvious - because the project can be said to have taken place, the success of which exceeded all expectations. I believe the share of participation should remain at the level previously agreed upon.

      Previously agreed and was - 50.
  10. complete zero
    complete zero 3 December 2013 12: 41
    +1
    I don’t know much (but it’s still interesting to learn from people who know aviation)
    as for ICE, airframe, aerodynamics, hydraulic systems - Russia is an advanced power
    Well, what about avionics? -As far as I know, "here we are not ice"? - and apparently cooperation with India, which is progressing in electronics, is this a real possibility of creating (LA) the fifth generation? -Well, not with Israel or the States to create it) )), so are the Indians wrong with their claims, especially since he also finances this project?
    1. Bober
      Bober 3 December 2013 17: 13
      +3
      I agree. But cooperation in aviation is a serious level and we must immediately understand on the shore. If we invest so together, it should only be between us and no one else. And this is for a long time. This is a good counterweight against the Chinese, and indeed against the rest. Copying is a dead end. There is no way for the Chinese to make a revolution. With the Indians it is necessary to continue. They are not geopolitical opponents, we can be friends and we are interested in strong India.
      1. complete zero
        complete zero 3 December 2013 21: 11
        0
        I don’t understand just one thing, why not cooperate with the Chinese (and only with them) but cooperate with the Indians? PS-Indians are also selling something to someone like the Chinese with the Malaysians and so on ... THE WORLD has long been integrated here in this and everyone is stealing from each other
  11. rugor
    rugor 3 December 2013 12: 45
    0
    But ho ho, not ho ho?
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 3 December 2013 12: 50
      +2
      Brothers and on our street a dump truck with gingerbread rolls over, the news just told: Serdyukov went for interrogation as a suspect.
      1. tomas.09
        tomas.09 3 December 2013 13: 01
        +6
        According to the article on negligence? Horror !!!!
      2. atalef
        atalef 3 December 2013 13: 01
        +8
        Quote: Alex 241
        Brothers and on our street a dump truck with gingerbread rolls over, the news just told: Serdyukov went for interrogation as a suspect.

        Sasha hello !!!
        Serdyukov will be imprisoned. you have no doubt since Putin understands that the tension among the people is such that if you do not give them a goat (or rather, judging by the size of the hippo) scapegoats, the situation will get out of control. Yes, there is still Ukraine, and even if God forbid we fly at the Olympics --- no one knows what will end. You look at the comments in Wo, how they have changed in relation to GDP over 2 years, and this is a site where, on GDP, well, just prayed and pray. Do you think the relevant services do not calculate the mood in society? Therefore, Serdyukov will sit down, according to an easy article. not for long, will be quickly amnestied due to health-threatening weight loss --- sometimes the king needs to throw a crowd of bones --- to calm down
        So it will be Serdyukov’s bones.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 3 December 2013 13: 06
          +1
          Hi Sasha, refused to testify, does not plead guilty. They said in the UK that they will be charged in the near future.
          1. atalef
            atalef 3 December 2013 13: 16
            0
            Quote: Alex 241
            Hi Sasha, refused to testify, does not plead guilty. They said in the UK that they will be charged in the near future.

            Who doubted, the process (by the way) you will see - it won’t be long, I would put it in some degree dependent on success at the Olympics (an independent court will certainly take into account the mood in society, and the GDP will always say that the court and only the court determine the measure of guilt) so that there is some conflict of interest (in my opinion 0 Successful performance is a shorter time. Therefore, now you will hardly find bigger fans than Serdyukov and Vasiliev hi
            Therefore, what to do? To root for the Olympics is to shorten Serdyukov’s term.
            Here, without a bubble, you can’t get it right.
            1. Botanologist
              Botanologist 3 December 2013 16: 36
              -3
              Quote: atalef
              Here, without a bubble, you can’t get it right.



              I want to become a bubble.
              In addition, with urine.
            2. vadson
              vadson 3 December 2013 17: 10
              +2
              Quote: atalef
              Quote: Alex 241
              Hi Sasha, refused to testify, does not plead guilty. They said in the UK that they will be charged in the near future.

              Who doubted, the process (by the way) you will see - it won’t be long, I would put it in some degree dependent on success at the Olympics (an independent court will certainly take into account the mood in society, and the GDP will always say that the court and only the court determine the measure of guilt) so that there is some conflict of interest (in my opinion 0 Successful performance is a shorter time. Therefore, now you will hardly find bigger fans than Serdyukov and Vasiliev hi
              Therefore, what to do? To root for the Olympics is to shorten Serdyukov’s term.
              Here, without a bubble, you can’t get it right.

              that is, if the Russians at the Olympics in hockey, etc. .. ec heh ... then they will put Sardyukov? I have a friend, a hockey player, he knows Datsyuk, we can ask through him that our team doesn’t go out on the ice at all and for a stool against the background of popular unrest, they will return the death penalty drinks
        2. queen
          queen 3 December 2013 18: 54
          0
          Quote: atalef
          sometimes the king needs to throw bones to the crowd --- to calm down

          not now ... or people b.
      3. avant-garde
        avant-garde 3 December 2013 13: 03
        +2
        Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree according to which the anti-corruption department is being created in the Kremlin administration, it was headed by Oleg Bad - smiled pinned or something GDP laughing

        RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/society/20131203/981504899.html#ixzz2mOuFItv1
        I know that this topic is an addition to the post about perdyukov drinks
        1. atalef
          atalef 3 December 2013 16: 08
          +1
          Quote: avant-garde
          Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree according to which the Kremlin’s anti-corruption department is being created in the Kremlin’s administration, it was headed by Oleg Plohoy - the GDP is making fun of it

          And if it works badly, they’ll fire with words
          Come From Here - Bad You wassat
      4. pensioner
        pensioner 3 December 2013 16: 01
        +1
        Quote: Alex 241
        Brothers and on our street a dump truck with gingerbread rolls over, the news just told: Serdyukov went for interrogation as a suspect.
        good It’s already with beer ... At least ...
  12. Fin
    Fin 3 December 2013 12: 50
    +3
    Indian Defense Minister Akaparambil Anthony during his visit to Moscow said that India’s share in the development and production of the 5 generation fighter, which is currently at the prototype level, should be 50 percent.

    Friendship is friendship, but technology is ours. Sorry. Can be allowed to make tires for wheels, paint and hang "Brahmos".
  13. tomas.09
    tomas.09 3 December 2013 12: 59
    +1
    What are you talking about, the Indians are not able to exploit equipment, store ammunition, and all the same, give us the 5th generation of aircraft. Everything will rot in their warehouses, airfields, if they have not broken it before during training flights !!!
  14. Wiruz
    Wiruz 3 December 2013 13: 12
    +3
    And in general, on the creation of a fifth-generation fighter, it was necessary to cooperate only with those who are looking at the United States and NATO from the bottom - Syria, Venezuela, Belarus for example. Of course, their financial capabilities will be more modest, but they have more confidence. India is still a political mess - it has repeatedly wanted to arm itself with all the best from Russia and the United States. Who knows where tomorrow India will lead. (My humble opinion)
    1. complete zero
      complete zero 3 December 2013 15: 13
      +1
      But what can the Countries listed by you give to create such a machine?
    2. Saburo
      Saburo 3 December 2013 19: 16
      +3
      Syria, Venezuela, Belarus? Or maybe North Korea and some sort of Angola? I remember somewhere else I heard that they were offering in all seriousness to participate in Brazil, but it still went nowhere. It is necessary to cooperate with those who will be good.
      1. clidon
        clidon 3 December 2013 19: 48
        +1
        Brazilians were offered both the purchase of the Su-35 and participation in the FGFA program. But they have not yet become interested.
      2. Atlas
        Atlas 4 December 2013 10: 49
        0
        Is there no sense in Belarus?
  15. queen
    queen 3 December 2013 13: 45
    +3
    Quote: chunga-changa
    with money, we would then, mind you "would" and here rules

    there are also effective managers)))) you don’t have to mind the gas and oil much ... so Putin h ,, my great
  16. user1212
    user1212 3 December 2013 14: 00
    +4
    You do not quite understand correctly. PAK FA is a purely Russian project and nobody will let India into it. But on the basis of this aircraft, a fighter for the Indian Air Force will be developed. But India wants to participate in its development and produce some parts at home.
    Quote from Wikipedia:
    For export deliveries on the basis of PAK FA, together with India, an export modification of the aircraft is created, which has received the designation FGFA (English) Russian. (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft - fifth generation fighter).
    1. Metlik
      Metlik 3 December 2013 15: 05
      +1
      There will probably be an assembly of PAK FA under license in India.
      1. user1212
        user1212 3 December 2013 17: 32
        +1
        This is of little interest to them. They want to produce parts of the aircraft themselves in order to develop their industry and develop production technologies.
      2. alone
        alone 3 December 2013 22: 24
        0
        they need the whole development cycle. and dissatisfaction.
  17. 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 3 December 2013 14: 51
    +1
    It’s a little incomprehensible, they want 50% of the technology now or pay 50% and then get the technology .295 lyam is not nearly 50% of the development amount, and even 10 billion probably will not reach 50%.
  18. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 3 December 2013 15: 17
    0
    I'm afraid if India will participate on such conditions, then we will see the T-50 in the series when the 6-8th generation will fly in the sky.
  19. SovMan
    SovMan 3 December 2013 15: 30
    +3
    The problem is that this is not just an airplane, but a complex — the airplane itself, special engines, special avionics, weapons, interaction tactics — it’s called the Frontline Aviation Complex. And you won’t glue it from dollars, though without money you won’t work either. To create such a class of equipment, it is necessary to develop new technologies, but simply sharing technologies is not interesting, exchanging - yes, but on mutually beneficial conditions.
  20. SovMan
    SovMan 3 December 2013 15: 30
    +1
    The problem is that this is not just an airplane, but a complex — the airplane itself, special engines, special avionics, weapons, interaction tactics — it’s called the Frontline Aviation Complex. And you won’t glue it from dollars, though without money you won’t work either. To create such a class of equipment, it is necessary to develop new technologies, but simply sharing technologies is not interesting, exchanging - yes, but on mutually beneficial conditions.
  21. iConst
    iConst 3 December 2013 15: 49
    +6
    Hindus have long been blackmailed by the fact that they buy only the equipment in the production of which they themselves participate. So it was with the Su-30MKI. The trick is that they get a significant part of the technical documentation.

    In fact, the practice is bad, it’s not for nothing that the saying goes: what is known to two is known to a pig ...
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 3 December 2013 17: 59
      +4
      I offer them 50% to use for advertising purposes. They draw and sing well, and Bollywood is idle for nothing
  22. Nayhas
    Nayhas 3 December 2013 16: 15
    +1
    Well, finally, we are working with India on the FGFA aircraft, not the PAK-FA. And if the Indians, paying for 50% of the development, want similar participation, then this is quite legitimate, although here you need to know the terms of the contract. India has repeatedly raised concerns about the work on this project, the price is growing, the terms are postponed, FGFA becomes "Vikramaditsya-2".
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. evil hamster
    evil hamster 3 December 2013 17: 29
    +8
    Well, actually, what can India offer?
    - advances in aerodynamics - no
    - advances in engine manufacturing - not seen
    - maybe there is at least one serial radar of the modern level - is missing
    - peaks of materials science have been reached - I have not heard
    - Is there a rich aircraft building school and comprehensive experience in the design and large-scale production of aircraft of any complexity - shield?
    - Indian coders are senseless and merciless - oh, I'm still natural !!!

    The second aspect that we actually need from the FGFA program is that we need to sell these lovely and in every sense wonderful people - the export version of PAK-FA. But they are very ancient and very Aryan people, for this reason theirs is more proudly flies over Everest, and they do not want to buy, but want to develop themselves, as they say, any whim for your money. But there are a couple of points: FGFA - should be unified to the maximum with PAK-FA (in those components that do not harm the defense capability of the Russian Federation), which will give us an actual increase in the seriality of PAK FA, which in turn will positively affect the cost of the latter, which can increase the number of these in the ranks of the Russian Air Force - for which, in fact, all throwing.
    Based on the foregoing, it is best for us that the FGFA develops successfully and quickly, knowing the love of our partners for thoughtful and unhurried design, such as with the Arjun tank, whose goal is the process itself and not the result in an hour, let's hope that our side will have enough experience, patience and wisdom, so that, on paper, the participation of the Indian side would be maximum, but in fact minimal.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. Cherdak
    Cherdak 3 December 2013 17: 55
    +2
    Quote: regin
    And I think that they liked the coloring of the fifth ... beautiful same)


    No, they have not appreciated this yet - they have paid for their designer.
  27. Altona
    Altona 3 December 2013 17: 55
    +1
    I generally thought that Indians would only be responsible for programming, control algorithms, well, and so on, they have strong programmers ... In principle, they could give them a glider, you can copy it in any way, as the Chinese are doing now ... If there is no fundamental science in the country, then the country will not move far ... China has grown industrially, but science is probably not all right if they are involved in copying, cloning, compilation ... On the other hand, a modern fighter it’s just the warhead of the strike complex, it needs the appropriate infrastructure and personnel ...
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. Volozhanin
    Volozhanin 3 December 2013 18: 35
    +2
    About 3 years ago I read the statement of one of our engineers, where he compared Hindus and Chinese. Literally I don’t remember, but the meaning is: "Show the Chinese a third of the block, he will think of the rest, but show the Indian a whole block, he will never do the same."
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. Saburo
    Saburo 3 December 2013 19: 22
    +2
    In general, you need to be careful. India pursues a multi-vector policy, there is no particular relation to us there. So at any time, Indians can abandon FGFA in favor of Lightning. The contract has not been signed, everything can be.
  32. Andrey Ulyanovsky
    Andrey Ulyanovsky 3 December 2013 19: 49
    +2
    Singing and dancing Zoikas can be the contribution of the Indians: "The ultimate overload!" and dance to the monitor!
  33. Andrey Ulyanovsky
    Andrey Ulyanovsky 3 December 2013 19: 49
    0
    Singing and dancing Zoikas can be the contribution of the Indians: "The ultimate overload!" and dance to the monitor!
    1. evil hamster
      evil hamster 3 December 2013 21: 06
      +2
      then it’s not Zoyka but Ritka smile
  34. Cherdak
    Cherdak 3 December 2013 20: 55
    +1
    Here it is, the real contribution of the Indians
  35. avg
    avg 3 December 2013 23: 17
    +4
    Not where the Indians will not get away from us. They understand that they were very lucky with this project, that mattresses are not even allowed on the F-22s. And nowhere else to take, the T-50 is not a spider on the market. request The guys just want to take us weak, just like the Chinese with engines. But, times have changed. hi
  36. Alex Nick
    Alex Nick 3 December 2013 23: 36
    0
    Indian comrades want half. And why would it suddenly? Money is money. And thought is another matter. The car is completely ours, and it is possible only to speed things up. My opinion.
  37. mmmakm
    mmmakm 4 December 2013 00: 29
    +2
    I don’t know what contracts Russia signed there, but it seems that the Russians did such a miracle that they themselves did not expect. And you must arm yourself first of all with this candy.
  38. mmmakm
    mmmakm 4 December 2013 00: 29
    0
    I don’t know what contracts Russia signed there, but it seems that the Russians did such a miracle that they themselves did not expect. And you must arm yourself first of all with this candy.
  39. uestlend
    uestlend 4 December 2013 06: 47
    0
    Let the 5th generation bananas themselves develop horseradish for them, not technology
  40. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 4 December 2013 07: 19
    -1
    Hindus want to eat fish and sit somewhere. They didn’t reach the hi-tech sector, the beggars are unhappy !!!
  41. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 4 December 2013 07: 19
    +1
    Hindus want to eat fish and sit somewhere. They didn’t reach the hi-tech sector, the beggars are unhappy !!!
  42. queen
    queen 4 December 2013 08: 07
    0
    Quote: chunga-changa
    SU-50

    Like a balm ... thanks.
  43. Sochi
    Sochi 4 December 2013 11: 03
    0
    Interestingly, when they turn their faces from our contracts - is it so normal? They threw us on heavy helicopters ... And then they were right offended that such a candy swims past them ... NOT, in my opinion, working with a partner is possible only when he is honest, and if he begins to cast a shadow over the wattle fence ... nafig, nafig .
  44. Ross
    Ross 4 December 2013 11: 08
    0
    Quote: Alexander Romanov

    Indian Defense Minister Akaparambil Anthony during his visit to Moscow said that India’s share in the development and production of the 5 generation fighter, which is currently at the prototype level, should be 50 percent.

    And India has the technology, at least 5 percent, to create it?
    Do not like it, to hell with the beach.

    The Americans have already proposed with them to develop the 5 generation. Let it be better with us.
  45. VADEL
    VADEL 4 December 2013 12: 03
    0
    Quote: mmmakm
    I don’t know what contracts Russia signed there, but it seems that the Russians did such a miracle that they themselves did not expect. And you must arm yourself first of all with this candy.

    Yes, you can see a delicious cake if they even complain that the American got a small piece.