Military Review

Is Plato a friend to us - and what is in his background?

31
Many have probably heard of one of the main writings of the ancient Greek philosopher Plato called “The State”, but hardly any of the current readers read it. And in this work, where, in the form of a conversation between Socrates and his students, the draft of the ideal state is discussed, the mass of the most interesting conversations with our day.


According to Plato, invested in the mouth of his teacher Socrates, all the then four types of government, number four, were bad. The first is timocracy, the “power of the ambitious”, the most archaic, but also the most tolerable. With him, the rulers enjoyed a general honor, the warriors do not think about a piece of bread and should not get it with a curved sword in their free time from war. Common meals, regular exercises in military science and gymnastics - but the passion for acquisitiveness does not sleep. “The rulers secretly begin to collect gold and silver and store them in their dwellings. And with the pernicious participation of their wives, they change their modest lifestyle to a luxurious one, ”writes Plato.

So comes the oligarchy - the domination of the rich, enshrined property qualification for participation in power. But when the ship is led not by the one who is the best at it, but who is fatter than the purse http: //www.abc-people.com/data/rafael-santi/pic-8a.jpgk, don’t wait. The rich, protected by military force - this, according to Plato, two-legged drones, villains and blasphemers. During the war, they are even more than the enemy, afraid to distribute weapon the crowd, for she hates them. When an oligarchy everyone has the right to sell off all his property, after which it becomes not only useless, but also dangerous for society. Such a state inevitably falls ill, begins on insignificant reasons to fight with itself, and some then seek help from some foreign rulers, others - from others.

The insoluble internal conflict leads the oligarchy to an even worse form - democracy, formally representing the power of all members of society. But in reality, the difference between the rich and the poor then only increases, the desire for luxury drives people into the hands of usurers, pushes for any crimes, and still hates everyone more.

"Many, like women and children who admire all motley, will decide that democracy is best." But with her, “it is not necessary to fight when others are fighting ... With such a system, people sentenced to death or to exile continue to revolve in society: such a person walks right like a demigod ... Democracy is not concerned about the activities from which a person comes to government activities, if only he showed his favor to the crowd. ”

Morality completely falls, dominates the conviction, “that moderation and order in spending money is village ignorance and a lowly trait. Impudence is called enlightenment, unbridled freedom is called freedom, shamelessness is called courage. The most poisonous of the drones give speeches and act, while the rest sit down on the platform, buzz and do not allow anyone to say otherwise. ”

Hatred of the poor to the rich eventually leads to a popular uprising. If the poor win, they destroy some of the rich, expel the other. And the worst order is established - tyranny, the power of one. Since everything that is done too, over the edge, then, according to Plato, in the form of retaliation hits its opposite, and the excess of freedom turns into complete slavery.

“At first, the tyrant smiles at everyone, and says about himself that he is not a tyrant. He makes many promises, promises to free everyone from debt, distributes land to the people and his entourage. ” But soon it all ends in failure. “They say that someone who tasted human viscera, finely chopped with meat from sacrificial animals, will become a wolf. Is a tyrant, having in his hands an obedient crowd, refrain from the blood of fellow tribesmen? On the contrary, he will bring them to trial but unfair charges, savor the killing of relatives. The tyrant is hostile to all and builds against all the machinations. The more he is hated by citizens, the more he needs faithful bodyguards. He must dwell with this crowd of scoundrels, or bid farewell to life ... "

Since the time of Plato, 24 has passed the century, but do not we recognize ourselves in his extremely sharp descriptions? During his lifetime, he walked around the edge, risking repeating the fate of Socrates executed for "verbal terrorism" - and even now attract him "for incitement", in any case, he would not have got on our TV for sure!

But his thoughts about the ideal state are already quite fantastic - although, unlike our opposition, he really tried to make his fairytale a reality on the outskirts of the metropolis. And I want to extract from there only one line, on the part of the “passion of the tender,” which seemed to me completely delusional before - but now we are falling more and more into this nonsense.

According to Plato, the power and security of the state will increase if not only men but also women are involved in his defense. After more than two thousand years, it was successfully adopted in Israel; True, Plato goes on and on: children and wives should be common - to which they still have not survived anywhere else. But what's even further with him:

“For a woman to become a guardian, her training should not be different from that of men. Naked women will exercise in the palestras together with men, because it is more convenient to exercise without clothes ... And who among the men will laugh at the sight of naked women who will do gymnastics for such a high purpose, he himself must not know what laughs ... "

But why does he believe that a naked woman can only cause laughter? Here he also has the following phrase: “In a campaign, no one is allowed to refuse if the warrior wants to kiss someone, because if he happens to fall in love with a young man or a woman, this will give him more joy to accomplish feats.” The woman here is as if not only in order, but also in meaning relegated to second place - and finally puts the following passage in places:

“Connoisseur of love affairs is not good to forget that an amorous man is amazed and excited by everyone at a flourishing age ... Isn't that how you treat handsome men? You call one pleasant because he is snub-nosed and you praise him; the other has a crook-nose - it means there is something regal in it; and whose nose is of medium size, is proportionate. In the dark-haired - courageous appearance, blond - children of the gods. As for the "honey-yellow" - do you think that this expression was composed by someone other than the lover so dearly that even pallor does not repel him, if only the young man was at a flourishing age? "

So much for Plato with his platonic love! There is already asking for another expression: Fedot, but not that! In his huge work for women, he did not find anything but laughter at their naked bodies, and for the Maltsians such a lush palette! But just in this he is more and more for us; and we approached his ideal state except along this bad line: our president himself is already scuffing in front of her!

But this rampant thought, drowned in carnal perversion, and brought Ancient Greece under it historical end. Ancient Rome came forward, where instead of captivating thinkers like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, the emblem was a young man Mutsiy Stsevola, who burned his hand in front of the eyes of enemies to prove his love for the Fatherland. But even the valiant Romans, over the centuries of their world leadership, got their own cockroaches in their heads, devouring their power - and then the state itself.

In the same way, our country once rose above the whole world, becoming the superior of its destinies - like Greece and Rome in their finest hours. But we were eventually struck by these cockroaches and vices known thousands of years ago ... We have not completely disappeared, we began to live even better - like the Romans under Nero and Commodus, when they went to squander all that Caesar had conquered, hitting the grave sins. We think that we will get away with this; these are some ancient Greeks with Plato, who had glanced over the centuries ahead, suffered a fierce retribution — and we, who do not see even tomorrow, will pass! Say we do not read more books - and only by this lack of reading will we save ourselves from the perversions described in them!

We also fell into such idiocy: what is the light of reproaching our yesterday's greatness for certain excesses - which neither the present Greeks, nor the Italians, nor the Egyptians do. On the contrary, they are proud of their stellar past, in which these excesses were a dime a dozen, and the victorious leaders were most often distinguished by extreme cruelty.

Take even the same Caesar, who was very much like our Stalin's tenacious economic mind, brutal memory, ruthlessness to the enemies and clever political calculations. Even failures in personal life bring them together: the suicide of Stalin's wife is the same knife in the back as the scandal with Caesar's wife, to which the lover went in women's clothes. In the army, Caesar used the decimation - the execution of every tenth warrior for the offense of the entire cohort or legion, even more likely executed political opponents. But it would not occur to anyone to say: the Roman people won the Gallic war not because of, but in spite of the tyrant Caesar, who only violated human rights at every step ... But for our victorious leader, it comes to us!

We would like to draw useful experience from our history - but we, like children in my father’s car, just want to ride on it so that we don’t collect bones later! Foolish business is simple: to absorb all the antediluvian vices, including this Platonic one, the topsy-turvy, love not for the motherland, but for boy's asses - a lot of mind is not necessary.

Weed grows by itself - just stop mowing it. A good grass should be grown, including by mowing weeds. We have mowed down our education and diligence - and even little Israel, who took the grain useful to him from Plato, beats us laughing at us!

So friend us Plato or not friend? He possessed great breadth and courage, all his life he praised his executed teacher Socrates and invested such desperate idealism into his “State”: “In an ideal state, philosophers are not given a cup of poison, but the reins of government!” your big breasts. It is not interesting to judge him - it is interesting that we will take out from his still actual heritage, which included all human puzzles, from the most holy to the evil.

We have a choice: to sink to its rotten sin - or to rise to its truth piercing through millennia. Or just forget it and not read it: they say that fools read books, and we ourselves, with mustaches, are strong with our mind! That's just this fortress something, including under the onslaught of yesterday, who seemed to be an incredible game of gay parades, is melting before our eyes!
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  1. Hudo
    Hudo 13 November 2013 07: 47
    +9
    Alas, the oligarchs' love of money is stronger than the instinct of self-preservation. The wise words of Plato on one side of the balance and the loot on the other can not come into balance.
    1. Sterlya
      Sterlya 13 November 2013 08: 00
      +8
      Quote: Hudo
      Alas, the oligarchs' love of money is stronger than the instinct of self-preservation. The wise words of Plato on one side of the balance and the loot on the other can not come into balance.

      I remember 20 years ago they sat drinking with one friend. I started a conversation about the situation in the country, perestroika, EBN om and other things. he sat listening to me, looked and speaks. Why do you need all this? You think how to make money. He is currently a millionaire. deputy. I'm just a man
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 13 November 2013 08: 08
        +2
        Quote: Sterlya
        . He is currently a millionaire. deputy. I'm just a man

        Why just a person, you are a person with connections wink Add your nickname to your favorites laughing
        1. Sterlya
          Sterlya 13 November 2013 08: 19
          +2
          Why just a person, you are a person with connections wink Add your nickname to your favorites laughing[/ Quote]

          I never turn to them. even when really needed. I tell myself. What would I do if they were not there? and doing so. My wife even says. others do not know how to get to know them, but your name is not coming.
          There are many more places where we were not.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 13 November 2013 08: 42
            0
            Quote: Sterlya
            I never turn to them. even when really needed.

            So also not for myself, but for the people (me) laughing
  2. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 13 November 2013 07: 51
    +2
    Yes, we are strong with our minds and there is no doubt about that, and as for the mess in education and gay parades, rulers need to be driven to the chopping block for them. And the books should be read! hi
  3. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 13 November 2013 07: 52
    +6
    On the one hand, Plato describes our time, criticizing and marveling at all our shortcomings. But on the other, he is still the pervert who read to the end laughing
    Conclusion: socialism is probably the best of all that has been invented for the entire existence of mankind.
    1. ZU-23
      ZU-23 13 November 2013 08: 12
      +1
      Only better then socialism in the whole world at the same time)))
    2. sergey32
      sergey32 13 November 2013 08: 14
      +1
      Damn, I went over a little yesterday at the mother-in-law’s birthday, and in the morning such articles on VO that my brains refuse to turn on.
      1. ZU-23
        ZU-23 13 November 2013 08: 23
        +1
        I only turn on the next day laughing
  4. mirag2
    mirag2 13 November 2013 07: 56
    +5
    Socialism with proper management is probably the most stable system of organization and government ...
  5. aksakal
    aksakal 13 November 2013 07: 58
    +3
    Plato is my friend, BUT! Truth is more expensive!
    Cognitively, I learned that attempts to build "Utopia" were long before the appearance of "Utopia" laughing
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 13 November 2013 08: 11
      +1
      Quote: aksakal
      attempts to build "Utopia" were long before the appearance of "Utopia" itself

      Plato probably described Atlantis, there was a utopia and ultimately completely drowned.
    2. Tersky
      Tersky 13 November 2013 08: 26
      +2
      Quote: aksakal
      Plato is my friend, BUT! Truth is more expensive!

      "Following me, think less about Socrates and more about the truth." Aristotle in the essay "Nicomachean Ethics" ...
      1. alone
        alone 13 November 2013 19: 21
        0
        "Any power over a person is violence." Bulgakov - Master and Margarita.
  6. makarov
    makarov 13 November 2013 08: 01
    +1
    The material is certainly interesting. It is well-written, the author said nothing about something (as Trotsky introduced decimation). The author’s conclusion is very shortened and limited, and has only one appeal down with pederasty, and Plato was wrong in this. I would like to see an analogy of all 4 stages of statehood of Plato and the modern Slavic world over the past 30 years
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 13 November 2013 08: 12
      +1
      Quote: makarov
      . I would like to see an analogy of all 4 stages of statehood of Plato and the modern Slavic world over the past 30 years

      And you yourself are not able to analyze?
      1. Eugeniy_369
        Eugeniy_369 13 November 2013 08: 52
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov

        And you yourself are not able to analyze?

        Then another article will appear lol .
  7. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 13 November 2013 08: 05
    +6
    Maybe a little off topic, but still:The Ministry of Education and Science will allow not to leave losers in the second year "The Ministry of Education and Science has developed a draft order that allows not to leave students with poor students for the second year. Even having several unsatisfactory grades in the diary at the end of the school year, negligent students will be able to continue their studies with their more diligent classmates in the next grade," Izvestia writes. translation is possible only with one deuce. "

    Read full article: http://top.rbc.ru/society/13/11/2013/888261.shtml
    I don’t know about Plato, is he a friend to US, BUT LEBANOV IS EXACTLY THE ENEMIES OF RUSSIA.
  8. os9165
    os9165 13 November 2013 08: 08
    +6
    Is Plato a friend to us - and what is in his background?
    Top article. I will say Stalin is much more a patriot and a statesman of Russia than the current rulers living in their fairy-tale looking glass, according to their own laws, invented by themselves, or rather, outside the law. Their logic is not understood by an ordinary, normal person, even Plato hardly understood them. Their primary survival instinct atrophied - it seems to me they are already biorobots, or they think that they will live in the looking glass and not in Russia.
  9. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 13 November 2013 08: 14
    0
    from the Don.
    Everything, as they say, is in the hole! One question is, when will we start?
  10. Stinger
    Stinger 13 November 2013 08: 24
    +4
    Plato, of course, is a friend. But in Russia, Saltykov-Shchedrin noted: There are legions of tomboys who have the language of the “state”, and in their thoughts have a pie with breech filling.
  11. pravednik
    pravednik 13 November 2013 09: 12
    0
    This article, I think many will make you think. The most important thing is that our rulers read it, although it is unlikely to happen. They only show that they are smart and well-read, but in fact ......
  12. negeroi
    negeroi 13 November 2013 09: 15
    +2
    Another bunch of brains. What’s the matter? The author crossed the next age line, and all of his relatives got sick of his crazy thoughts that they don’t listen to him anymore and would help him. He connected a Jerusalem artichoke with a crocodile. Well? What about the dog rummaging? About Stalin and beautiful lovers, and the ways of reigning in Plato’s head. Well, it’s connected, and so .. In the elderberry garden, and in Kiev uncle. It’s clear what to say if the sermyaga is not understood, a block of mighty thought. For what I say, the whole article is expressible one phrase soviet intelligentsia-How to live, homosexuals come, oh I'm afraid unstable get upset ??? !!!

    Not stsi muschina, while there are people like you, Plato will not pass!
  13. vlad.svargin
    vlad.svargin 13 November 2013 09: 43
    +2
    Insoluble internal conflict leads the oligarchy to an even worse form - democracy, formally representing the power of all members of society. But in reality, the difference between rich and poor then only grows, the craving for luxury drives people into the paws of money lenders, pushes for any crimes, and still hates everyone ... Morality completely falls, the conviction reigns, “that moderation and order are spent on spending - This is rural ignorance and a low trait. Insolence is called enlightenment, unbridledness - freedom, shamelessness - courage. The most poisonous drones make speeches and act, while the rest sit down on the platform, buzz and do not allow anyone to say otherwise. ”The hatred of the poor for the rich ultimately leads to a popular uprising.

    Plato foresaw all forward? No just generalized the history of civilization. Before us it was and probably more than once. History warns us through the mouth of Plato and once again an example of the decline of morality of the West. And if we do not change our minds, then this awaits us too
    We have a choice: to sink to its rotten sin - or to rise to its truth piercing through millennia. Or just forget it and not read it: they say that fools read books, and we ourselves, with mustaches, are strong with our mind! That's just this fortress something, including under the onslaught of yesterday, who seemed to be an incredible game of gay parades, is melting before our eyes!

    The final we see how ancient Greece, the Roman Empire "died", what awaits the West and us, if we, as victims, wait for the end. And the finale is not far off, we are already "making some steps."
    Already passed the point of no return in curtailing education, falling morality through the "moron" and other media, stupid annoying advertisements and falling food security:
    But such a fruitful peasantry has almost disappeared in our country, and we eat mostly from foreign fields. And we look, paradoxical as it may seem for a country that does not leave reforms, more and more into the past. Some - in the Soviet, more and more seeming paradise for his fans. Others - into the tsarist, the third - into the Orthodox archaic, the fourth - into the pre-Orthodox still paganism. ("OURS WILL NOT COME ANYMORE." Alexander Roslyakov)

    And yet it depends on us that "ours come", not all is lost!
    1. negeroi
      negeroi 13 November 2013 09: 52
      0
      Guys! Aren't you funny yourself? Don’t you feel sick from pathos poses? Mlyn seers. Mad Cassandra is insane ...
  14. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 13 November 2013 10: 49
    +1
    Since Plato is a pervert, no thoughts are of interest to me. They are perverted. History shows that tyranny is most successful. And then they die when they slide into democracy and the oligarchy.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Alex66
    Alex66 13 November 2013 11: 10
    +1
    Plato denies love of money, popularity, but stumbled on voluptuousness. So Plato is not our friend, although the devil is smart. He justifies his vices, realizing them perfectly.
  17. Semurg
    Semurg 13 November 2013 11: 30
    0
    understood so. that women are to blame for everything, which incites husbands to separate from general meals and begin to save gold, well, then everything goes on an inclined self. Well, if you’re not blue, where without women (topics of male conversations are politics, football, women, the order is different but always present) laughing . If naked women ran and jumped in gyms, probably in all other institutions (except clubs for blue ones), profits would have fallen significantly laughing
  18. negeroi
    negeroi 13 November 2013 13: 16
    0
    The lack of a brain is to blame for everything. Nowhere and no one has proven that the decline of Rome and, like Athens, the British Empire and the USSR, was associated with a decline in morals and homosexuality, and in particular pederasty. It is completely unknown what was the cause and the consequence. Was homosexuality a consequence of the decline of morals , or quite the opposite, a decline in morals occurred as a result of the public enthusiasm for homosexuality. And maybe these phenomena are little connected, since history knows examples of the completely opposite order. The Spartans, showing the world both military training and military technology, surpassing the whole world these were real fighting pederasts. Alexander of Macedon raped a sickly empire, crushed Asian sex with his mistresses in a frenzy of love. Now the American army is a heck and is not a model of stamina and military training, but he’ll put someone who’s hosh and will take away the right number of times. not only from the inferiority complex, but also the reason for their tolerance.

    Speaking of the brain. Some think that they are right and these same perverts. So I dare say that all homosexuals are the essence of the NORMAL phenomenon. If God created them, then the question is how hot it is settled. If we consider the natural atheistic version, then it’s completely naturalism and you don’t need to aliens with perversion. In nature, same-sex relationships, in the presence of sexes more than one, are near and near, and a dime a dozen. And primates are at all over 80%. The homosexuality of primates is an integral part of complex social behavior. The essence and nature of the phenomenon are poorly understood .Social laws have just begun to study. What the hell does anyone say, except for the grandmothers. All such studies have been secret for about 100 years, starting from Freudism. In short, no one knows nichrome.

    I just don’t understand what ..... such topics appear. Do not like blue, homosexuals? Well, what ... are these topics sucked up? Or what does it hurt? What pederastic themes? What kind of look at the Fates of the Motherland ... through anus? tfu!
  19. makarov
    makarov 13 November 2013 14: 33
    0
    Quote: negeroi
    Speaking of the brain. Some people think they are right and these same perverts. So I dare say that all homosexuals are the essence of the NORMAL phenomenon


    I do not put a minus for one reason, everyone has the right to their own opinion, and this is right. But essentially komenta, call buggers NORMAL (????), please forgive, AND WHO SAME THEN WE ARE THOSE WHO LIKE ONLY WOMEN, well, girls naturally.
    Pederasty is a disease and a natural deviation, and roosters cannot take it out of their corner at all. Something I have not heard calls to "correctly understand" patients with gastritis, or hemorrhoids, It's simple, adequate people are aware.
  20. negeroi
    negeroi 13 November 2013 16: 17
    +1
    Oh, they mumble me, oh, I’ll cry all night. Dyainki, adults, dyyanki in some places play like. And menacingly use the resource, instead of straining bitsuhi. Fun, or rather do not tell.

    I am sure that the opinion about fagot disease is based on solid scientific baggage. You are probably an associate professor of at least neobihiveorizma or ethology, probably thesis defended on diseases of primates. So my colleague, I heard a hint of Na. In places where the topic of homosexuality is extremely relevant and vital , some people would have been retouched for an unfounded accusation. This just confirms the thesis of social hierarchy, status, built with elements of sexual behavior. Absolutely similar to those that are built in primate flocks.


    But nothing sounded, right?

    I’ll love to drink .. talk, I’ll repeat it with pleasure. The topic of homosexuality is poorly understood. There really is a correlation between the number of homosexuals and the behavior of society as a whole. But the data are unverified and you’ll check it, all studies on this topic (well, or most) are secret. So NOBODY DOES NOT KNOW. Here are some people who know more, apparently having their own research data. Don’t share? Which book can be read from?

    The topic itself, in itself, I see so. When the buggers begin their parades next to me. Or the topic as such, they need something to say. That's if and only then I can appear, because I don’t shake wise people in my space. But so that on their own free will raise topics on the topic .. And here the question arises, who does this and why? For me, I won’t touch shit. I don’t care about them. And there’s nothing to weave idiotic themes into any others. And when this happens, this is monkey behavior. An attempt to increase one’s own status, using a virtual toy, fuss about fag, scream menacingly, punch in the chest, show one’s steepness and status, spitting aside pariah. And the type of status has increased. And this is in the best case. Because the urge to talk on this topic can be caused by completely different instincts. And the last touch about the disease. Homosexuals (men) have a pituitary gland. Just like all women. Maybe all women, sick? In short minus, self-affirmation take it.
  21. vahatak
    vahatak 14 November 2013 12: 01
    0
    I wonder where the author studied history and does he have a special education at all? So many stupid things in one article I have not read for a long time.
  22. c3r
    c3r 16 November 2013 01: 07
    0
    read the article and comments, understood two things;
    1. It is necessary to re-read Machiavelli, to read Plato.
    2. Why did the people get to the bottom of these roosters so completely, the point is not in them, but in the fact that Plato and Machiavelli should be re-read.