Military Review

On tanks "Abrams" will install diesel power in 1630 hp

119
On tanks "Abrams" will install diesel power in 1630 hp

The US military is increasingly inclined to believe that the new version of the main combat tank Abrams will receive instead of a gas turbine AGT-1500 a diesel engine MB883 with a capacity of 1630 hp Currently, this power plant is mounted on the tank chassis and has recently been demonstrated. This aroused great interest among specialists of the armored forces.



As the defensemedianetwork, besides the increased power (the old Abrams gas turbine gives out 1500 hp), the new German diesel is more compact, it has a longer service life. The MB883 engine is significantly more economical - by 50%. This will require fewer tankers.


A major drawback of the Abrams tank was its high thermal visibility, which facilitated the detection of the tank with thermal sights and targeting high-precision sights. weapons. Thanks to the diesel engine, the exhaust is now 300% cooler.



Experts say that it was possible to reduce the acoustic visibility of the tank. The test platform also received a new system of protection against weapons of mass destruction and new Dhiel tracked belts with a significantly increased service life and lower weight.


The tank chassis with MB883 must pass the necessary tests on the results of which, perhaps, decisions will be made on the diesel fleet of American tanks.
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  1. Migari
    Migari 12 November 2013 11: 11
    +3
    A major drawback of the Abrams tank was its high thermal signature, which made it easier to detect the tank with thermal imaging sights and aim high-precision weapons at it. Thanks to the diesel engine, the exhaust is now 300% cooler.
    There is nothing ideal, from the beginning they praised to heaven, now they are modernizing.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 12 November 2013 11: 44
      15
      Quote: Migari
      There is nothing ideal, from the beginning they praised to heaven, now they are modernizing.

      Usually, any normal military equipment is upgraded. What problem do you see?
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev 12 November 2013 11: 54
        16
        There is no problem with the fact that the Americans put the most suitable engine on the tank, they know what they are doing.
        The problem is with our "some civilians" who have no idea why Russia is gradually removing the T-80 from service. The same is a good tank, but ... request
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Kars
          Kars 12 November 2013 13: 59
          11
          Quote: Alekseev
          to, why the Russians are gradually phasing out the T-80.

          The Americans put a new (or rather German) diesel and in the Russian Federation T-80 go to the scrap. They could also buy a German diesel. If you can’t put your own.
          1. 31231
            31231 12 November 2013 14: 08
            +2
            Something I did not see in the article that the diesel engine will be installed during modernization. Maybe let's not rush to conclusions and wait ?! And it can only put diesel on new ones.
            1. Kars
              Kars 12 November 2013 14: 24
              +1
              Quote: 31231
              Something I didn’t see in the article that diesel will be installed during modernization

              And what is modernization in your understanding?
              quite clearly written

              The chassis of the tank with MB883 must pass the necessary tests, the results of which, possibly, will make decisions on the dieselization of the fleet of American tanks
              Quote: 31231
              they will put on new ones.

              Oh, that would be completely different news.
              1. crazyrom
                crazyrom 20 November 2013 06: 25
                0
                You can't get 300% cooler. Most likely 30%.
          2. lelikas
            lelikas 12 November 2013 14: 27
            +4
            Quote: Kars
            .Could also buy a German diesel. If you can’t supply your own.

            Actually, you can buy a production license, and then develop it as your own.
            The USSR was no stranger to this practice and nothing bothers us.
            1. nerd.su
              nerd.su 12 November 2013 14: 41
              +4
              Quote: lelikas

              Actually, you can buy a production license, and then develop it as your own.
              The USSR was no stranger to this practice and nothing bothers us.

              The USSR began mass production of diesel engines for tanks much earlier than Germany.
              1. Akim
                Akim 12 November 2013 14: 43
                +4
                Quote: bot.su
                The Soviet Socialist Republic began to mass-produce diesel engines for tanks much earlier than Germany.

                Well, to speak to the end, the first tank diesel is Japanese.
                1. Evgenij.
                  Evgenij. 12 November 2013 17: 10
                  0
                  But the diesel is RI!
                2. nerd.su
                  nerd.su 12 November 2013 20: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: Akim
                  Well, to speak to the end, the first tank diesel is Japanese.

                  Did not know. However, I did not say that we were the first to start mass production of tank diesel engines. We started it before Germany. And when comparing the V-2 with Japanese diesel engines, it is clear that at that time the Japanese would produce our engine under license. But then the affairs of the past.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 12 November 2013 21: 12
                    0
                    Quote: bot.su
                    And when comparing the V-2 with Japanese diesel engines, it is clear that at that time the Japanese would produce our engine under license.

                    In those years, we were ahead of all diesels, but time is running out ...
              2. Evgenij.
                Evgenij. 12 November 2013 17: 09
                0
                I’ll even say moreover, diesel appeared in Russia, at the enterprise of the Nobel brothers from Rudolfovsky dvigla (exploded after a day of operation) they made an excellent diesel engine (modern version). The Nazis fought on gas tanks, and we diesels
              3. lelikas
                lelikas 12 November 2013 17: 15
                0
                I meant all the engines in principle.
            2. aksakal
              aksakal 12 November 2013 14: 58
              +8
              Quote: lelikas
              Quote: Kars
              .Could also buy a German diesel. If you can’t supply your own.

              Actually, you can buy a production license, and then develop it as your own.
              The USSR was no stranger to this practice and nothing bothers us.

              - Most likely they won’t sell the latest developments, the day before yesterday - it’s easy, but why are they needed? The other day there was an article about how the Americans are restricting in fact, without declaring, the export of technological innovations. And not only their own, but also allies. So go down to earth. In addition, there are no special secrets in a diesel engine, German diesel engines are largely good because of the level of technological culture, which is a long chain of many subcontractors, which in turn do more accurately ... In short, the matter may not be in the design, but trite in quality and precision in the manufacture of ...
              1. Gronsky
                Gronsky 12 November 2013 16: 25
                +1
                Quote: aksakal
                In addition, there are no special secrets in a diesel engine, German diesel engines are largely good because of the level of technological culture, which is a long chain of many subcontractors, which in turn do more accurately ... In short, the matter may not be in the design, but trite in quality and precision in the manufacture of ...


                A very good idea, as an option is very likely.
                And I think that the point is to change the concept of using MBT. If, during the Cold War, strategists planned lightning-fast throws of armored armada over long distances deep into enemy territory (to the English Channel, etc. smile ), it is now possible, with a brain scratch, analyzing potential conflicts of the future, came to the conclusion that such massive, deep, high-speed raids are not expected. Combat work is expected at a torn pace, with frequent transitional regimes, frequent start-stops (jumped out from behind the house, shot-popped up), pulling sticky mud, etc., etc. In general, local conflicts, like the Chechen war. And such modes for the turbine, even the best one, are not preferable. Her destiny is working with a relatively constant, long-term load (sea vessels, fixed installations). Diesel in these situations is completely at ease.
                1. ka5280
                  ka5280 12 November 2013 21: 00
                  +1
                  There are not so many sea vessels with gas turbines, based on bargaining. The fleet adopted two tact, low-speed (85-250 rpm) crosshead diesel. On small vessels they put 4-stroke engines.
              2. lelikas
                lelikas 12 November 2013 17: 28
                +2
                Quote: aksakal
                - Most likely they won’t sell the latest developments, the day before yesterday - it’s easy, but why are they needed?

                "Provide capital with 10% profit, and the capital agrees to any use, with 20% it becomes lively, with 50% it is positively ready to break its head, with 100% it violates all human laws, with 300% there is no crime for which it does not would venture to go, at least under fear of the gallows "
                Another fellow countryman Diesel.
                They will sell everything - both the license and the machines, will also help with installation and training, only we will bring our own to the stop.
                1. Tommygun
                  Tommygun 12 November 2013 18: 59
                  0
                  Recently there was an article on the site about how American companies supplied the Fuhrer.
              3. self-propelled
                self-propelled 13 November 2013 16: 56
                0
                Quote: aksakal
                In short, the matter there may not be in design, but in the quality and accuracy of the manufacture ...

                in the late 90s, after the army, being on a business trip, I got to the plant named after. Malysheva. held in his hands a fuel nozzle with internal drainage (who understands - he will understand, those who are not "in the know" - I will explain briefly. the production of such nozzles requires maximum precision in production with minimum tolerances). so the quality in the military-industrial complex has always been the highest (I don't know how it is now)
          3. ka5280
            ka5280 12 November 2013 15: 10
            0
            Good idea with the purchase of a German diesel engine to study techno! But the German diesel itself does not fit into the dimensions of the MTO of our tanks.
          4. Eugeniy_369
            Eugeniy_369 12 November 2013 16: 35
            0
            Quote: Kars
            Could also buy a German diesel. If you can’t supply your own.


            There is no way they can handle the "women's battalion" in the "Arbat military district", and you mean the diesel engine, and even the German ones ... recourse
          5. Evgenij.
            Evgenij. 12 November 2013 17: 06
            0
            still put, only domestic.
          6. Alekseev
            Alekseev 12 November 2013 17: 12
            0
            Yes, yes, certainly German!
            Now debts from individual will be collected for diesel engines too! wassat
            1. Kars
              Kars 12 November 2013 17: 18
              +2
              Quote: Alekseev
              Yes, yes, certainly German!

              Well, why certainly German? Hold a tender. There will be many who wish.

              Quote: Alekseev
              Now they will collect debts from some for diesels

              What is so tight with money? I thought the Russian Federation was a rich country, not just separate ones.
              1. Alekseev
                Alekseev 12 November 2013 17: 49
                +1
                Quote: Kars
                I thought the Russian Federation is a rich country, not just separate ones.

                That's right! tongue
        3. tomket
          tomket 12 November 2013 16: 45
          0
          With turbines on tanks over once and for all ????
      2. viruskvartirus
        viruskvartirus 12 November 2013 12: 50
        +5
        It would be better if they continued to try to improve their gas turbines, and now the abrams will become much better. The news is disgusting.
      3. aksakal
        aksakal 12 November 2013 13: 46
        +8
        Quote: Pimply
        Usually, any normal military equipment is upgraded. What problem do you see?

        - Yes, everything is fine ... Besides the fact that the GTE of the Russians still turned out to be more technologically advanced, which still made the Russians the first to abandon the GTE.
        By the way, once again I kick Kars. He thinks he hid from me when I argued with him over Abrams against the T-90. Just one of the drawbacks of Abrams, I indicated his thermal visibility and gluttony. KARS gaggled - now I am gossiping. Only I cackle well, because the last. After making changes to Abrams, you may not have to laugh, perhaps this will make Abramych a good tank.
        Together with him, there was another one who proved to me that in the Abrams there is such a mixer on the exhaust pipe, which mixed the exhaust gases from the gas turbine engine with cold air, which ultimately "made Abrams invisible in the infrared spectrum" laughing laughing Kars, my cackle for you laughing Read SABJ - "A major drawback of the Abrams tank was its high thermal signature, which made it easier to detect the tank with thermal imaging sights and aim high-precision weapons at it. Thanks to the diesel engine, the exhaust is now 300% cooler ". Kars, here's another wassat wassat wassat - this is for your then partner, the same amateur, but with ambition - oh-oh !!!
        Need technical advice on tanks - Kars, contact wassat
        1. ka5280
          ka5280 12 November 2013 14: 57
          0
          On exhaust gases, a turbodiesel at the exit from the cylinder has a gas temperature of 330-350 degrees (4-stroke diesel), the higher the engine’s miscibility, the more hot gases. And this increases the thermal signature. Closed circle however.
        2. Eugeniy_369
          Eugeniy_369 12 November 2013 16: 38
          +1
          Quote: aksakal
          Need technical advice on tanks - Kars, contact

          I don’t know for your argument, but Karsa’s pictures are always rare and cool. good .
          1. Kars
            Kars 12 November 2013 16: 47
            +1
            Quote: Eugeniy_369
            I don’t know for your argument, but Karsa’s photos





            Aksakal

            By the way, once again I kick Kars. He thinks he hid from me when I argued with him over Abrams against the T-90. Just one of the drawbacks of Abrams, I indicated his thermal visibility and gluttony. KARS gaggled - now I am gossiping. Only I cackle well, because the last. After making changes to Abrams, you may not have to laugh, perhaps this will make Abramych a good tank.


            Who is talking about something and the patient is delirious. How can you prove that Abrams has more power than the T-90 and T-90A then go in. By the way, you can tell me what a bad transmission Abrams has.

            And from the North Caucasus, information reaches me about the extremely low engine resource on T-90A tanks. So, for a B-92С2 diesel, a resource of 700 hours is declared, however, the engine life guarantee is set two times lower - 350 hours. But often the engines do not reach this deadline. In principle, this situation is beneficial for the warriors. The engine flies ahead of time - its manufacturer changes the warranty without any questions and the tanks are operated further. Therefore, this is not particularly disclosed. The manufacturer, there is no reason to shout about the poor quality of their engines. But at the same time, according to the logic of things, the plant should frantically seek a way out to rectify the situation.

            Order in the tank forces?
            The B-92X2 engine of the T-90A tank often falls short of the warranty period.


            Indeed, such a solution was found - given the political resource of the Corporation, the plant, instead of improving the engine, simply lifted its price.

            Rye next clown
            http://topwar.ru/35381-poryadok-v-tankovyh-voyskah.html
            1. Aleks tv
              Aleks tv 12 November 2013 19: 27
              +2
              Quote: Kars
              And from the North Caucasus, information reaches me about the extremely low engine resource on T-90A tanks. So, for a B-92С2 diesel, a resource of 700 hours is declared, however, the engine life guarantee is set two times lower - 350 hours. But often the engines do not reach this deadline. In principle, this situation is beneficial for the warriors. The engine flies ahead of time - its manufacturer changes the warranty without any questions and the tanks are operated further. Therefore, this is not particularly disclosed. The manufacturer, there is no reason to shout about the poor quality of their engines. But at the same time, according to the logic of things, the plant should frantically seek a way out to rectify the situation.
              Order in the tank forces?
              The B-92X2 engine of the T-90A tank often falls short of the warranty period.


              Quote: Kars
              http://topwar.ru/35381-poryadok-v-tankovyh-voyskah.html


              Andrei, be careful on such links ... There, damn it, there is still that bickering ... and she already has nothing to do with armored vehicles.
              Currently, the operation of BT in the Russian army has resonated.
              - On the one hand: “service” Oboronservis service (already being cleaned) with the involvement of the manufacturer + 1 one-year conscript conscription (they do not have time to study, but only ... to ruin cars).
              - On the other hand: the safety and combat effectiveness of military equipment.

              The standard equipment of linear units is maximally preserved.
              And the equipment of the combat training group is used for slaughter according to the combat training curriculum, the tanks in it first "live" in the "Fire Group" (the Directorate of shooting with an optional barrel and staff), then they finish it off in the "Driving Group of Combat Vehicles". In principle, nothing new.
              For diesel T-90:
              B-92 was initially damp, the complaint was a wagon. And this is normal. His childhood diseases are gradually cured and cured, they will not go anywhere (but B-84 diesel engineers still trust more out of the habit of “daily operation”).
              Info for thought:
              If you look at one of the photos of Gurkhan, it becomes clear that this is the T-90 release BEFORE the 1996 year. On it is a "harp" with sequential rmsh. ..
              This is an almost dead tank of a combat training group, used at a tankodrome to teach beginners how to drive ...
              Bursting a torsion bar for such a machine is not a curiosity. Although there really are unfinished questions in the T-90 suspension, it was reinforced only when designing the T-72BA.

              Andrey (Kars) and Aksakal:
              I don’t want to stand between your dispute at all (for me - gas turbine engines and diesel engines have a place TOGETHER in the tank forces, since the climate and operating conditions are different everywhere) ....
              I apologize for having climbed.
              With respect:
              Alex.


              Photo Shoot:
              1. Kars
                Kars 12 November 2013 19: 56
                +1
                Quote: Aleks tv
                stand between your dispute (for me - GTE and diesel have a place to live TOGETHER

                our argument is not about this, but about the specific power of the T-90 and Abrams and its effect on mobility. By the way, the elder claims that the transmission of Abrams is worse than that of the T-90.

                Quote: Aleks tv
                B-92 was initially damp, the complaint was a wagon

                you tankers certainly know better but for me as an outside man and an effective manager--
                Quote: Kars
                a resource in 700 hours, however, the engine’s running hours are set two times lower - 350 hours. But often the engines do not reach this deadline.


                this question is important.
                and so politely ashamed to be ashamed of spelling mistakes.
      4. Fin
        Fin 12 November 2013 14: 35
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        Usually, any normal military equipment is upgraded.

        IMHO. Abramsov stamped - nowhere to go, money for new ones are not allocated. They decided to modernize, as a result of fuel economy, the defense industry in practice, specialists in the workplace. Found how to get money from the budget.
        1. ATATA
          ATATA 12 November 2013 17: 02
          0
          Quote: Fin
          Found how to get money from the budget.

          Such arguments can destroy any modernization.
          Let's fight the guns of 1812? Money in the budget will be goals!
          1. Fin
            Fin 12 November 2013 17: 41
            0
            Quote: ATATA
            Such arguments can destroy any modernization.
            Let's fight the guns of 1812? Money in the budget will be goals!

            You do not understand, this was not an argument. The meaning of the post: saved specialists + upgraded the tank.
      5. GSH-18
        GSH-18 12 November 2013 15: 44
        +2
        Quote from the article: "The new German diesel is more compact, it has a longer service life. The MB883 engine is much more economical - by 50%"
        ================================================== =====
        This is really cool.
        It is necessary either to buy a license from the Germans (ours stood at 1000l / s), or to erase the drawings and cook up something like that. Although our tanks are lighter, +500 horses will not be superfluous to them!
        It is also negative for us to reduce heat generation by the tank, heat visibility (when replacing a gas turbine with a German diesel engine) by as much as 300%! belay
        1. alone
          alone 12 November 2013 22: 15
          0
          what Americans just never do anything. Maybe they’re going to fight in the desert again? When they were in the desert, they had a hard time. They often had to change filters that were clogged with sand. And where did they sway so?
  2. Metlik
    Metlik 12 November 2013 11: 12
    18
    The gun on Abrams is German, the engine will be German - they would immediately buy a license for leopards.
    1. GSH-18
      GSH-18 12 November 2013 15: 50
      +3
      Quote: Metlik
      The gun on Abrams is German, the engine will be German - they would immediately buy a license for leopards.

      This is not American! laughing
      The hodgepodge team, wow! The main thing is that a couple of bolts are amers' ones, so a purely US "Abrams" is ready!)))
      The same they taught the Chinese. Only Americans buy everything, and the Chinese are all pi ... yat!
  3. Akim
    Akim 12 November 2013 11: 15
    +5
    Technically, the right decision. Diesel is less capricious and eats everything that is horrible.
    1. Tatar
      Tatar 12 November 2013 12: 13
      0
      By the way, on the contrary: diesel is very whimsical enough high requirements for oil and air purity, while a gas turbine, on the contrary, eats everything that is poured from vegetable oil to gasoline and there is nothing for it to have high purity, which is especially important in desert conditions, where tanks make many kilometers marches, and another such engine with a half turn to start in the cold. minus over GTD is a burning exhaust and gluttony, and it seems like at a price it is more expensive than diesel
      1. Akim
        Akim 12 November 2013 12: 38
        +2
        Quote: Tatar
        while a gas turbine, on the contrary, eats everything that is poured from vegetable oil to gasoline, and there’s nothing for it to purify the air of,

        This is in theory. In fact, it turned out that only kerosene is eating (even if it is cheaper than diesel fuel) - but a lot. And the air is so sucked in for combustion that they only had time to change the filters on Abramas.
      2. ATATA
        ATATA 12 November 2013 12: 42
        +3
        Quote: Tatar
        and the air of high purity is nothing to him,

        So why write nonsense that comes to mind?
        1. alone
          alone 12 November 2013 22: 16
          0
          wassat it is necessary to spoil the Americans with something. here and wrote nonsense!)))
      3. Jin
        Jin 12 November 2013 12: 54
        +7
        Quote: Tatar
        the air of high purity is nothing to him,


        Less to you, for ignorance of the topic ... why bother, what horrible if you do not understand the topic? GTE needed CLEAR AIR!!! In MTO "Abrams" the air filter occupies a huge volume, for your information. Otherwise, having "formed" a gas turbine engine that is sucked into, as you say, unpretentious to the purity of the air, it quickly blows it up and without options ...
        1. aksakal
          aksakal 12 November 2013 14: 13
          +5
          Quote: Jin
          Otherwise, having "formed" a gas turbine engine that is sucked into, as you say, unpretentious to the purity of the air, it quickly blows it up and without options ...

          - and what beauty technical decisions were made by Leningrad engine designers to increase the gas turbine engine's resistance to polluted air! Americans with their filter in a half-tank nervously smoke on the sidelines! And let them continue to smoke! - here I can’t enter, as they are with their chicken and very straightforward (in the sense - I have never seen any non-standard solutions in them - I saw complex developments, and very complex developments, and innovative developments, but that would be unconventional and witty , so that the spirit would catch the breath from the beauty of the decision - yes, there is no such thing among amers !!!) with their brains ahead of the rest of the planet? Yes, although it’s understandable - with such a gigantic economy, scientific research with R&D is also large-scale. But there is nothing to admire. Only use.
          1. Jin
            Jin 12 November 2013 14: 20
            +4
            Quote: aksakal
            - and what beauty technical decisions were made by Leningrad engine designers to increase the gas turbine engine's resistance to polluted air!


            Strongly agree! Here quote from another VO article on a similar topic:

            "At the suggestion of VNIITransmash employees, a unit of direct-flow cyclones was used to clean the incoming air. Removing the dust released from the air was the responsibility of additional centrifugal fans, which, in addition, blew the oil coolers. The use of such a simple and effective air purification system led to the rejection of the heat exchanger. If it was used, to achieve the required characteristics, it was required to purify the air by almost 100%, which was at least very difficult.The GTD-1000T engine could operate without a heat exchanger even if up to 3% of dust remained in the air.

            Quote: aksakal
            Americans with their filter in a half-tank nervously smoke on the sidelines! And let them continue to smoke!


            Yes, these "comrades" wanted to clean the air "to zero" ... well, well, that's where they go smile Now they’re cleaning filters on marches all the time ...
            1. sapran
              sapran 12 November 2013 14: 44
              +1
              Are you sure about the purpose of the heat exchanger at the gas turbine engine installation in the USA ?! or for heat exchange, the main purpose lies in another plane associated with the overall efficiency of the power plant and air is passed through the circuit to optimize the temperature and density of the structure.
              1. Jin
                Jin 12 November 2013 14: 50
                +6
                Quote: sapran
                Are you sure about the purpose of the heat exchanger at the gas turbine engine installation in the USA ?!


                This is a phrase out of context, dear ... The crux of the matter is not in the heat exchanger and others like it, but in the degree of air purification and related issues! Another layout (diagram) of the purification system and the admission of "pollution" of the air, in favor of the decisions of our tank builders smile hence the smaller filter volume and more compact arrangement in the MTO, smaller dimensions, weight. Cleaning filters on the T-80 are less whimsical and more "tenacious", from cleaning to cleaning, than on the Abrams, where they are cleaned more often, otherwise the gas turbine engine will bend ...
          2. GSH-18
            GSH-18 12 November 2013 15: 58
            +1
            Quote: aksakal
            - And what technical decisions did the Leningrad engine designers take to increase the gas turbine engine's resistance to polluted air!

            What kind? I would like more detail to broaden my horizons (so to speak)?
            1. aksakal
              aksakal 12 November 2013 17: 30
              +2
              Quote: GSH-18
              What kind? I would like more detail to broaden my horizons (so to speak)?
              - and here you are, here is a quote, google or submit: "At the suggestion of VNIITransmash employees, a block of direct-flow cyclones was used to clean the incoming air. Removing the dust released from the air was the responsibility of additional centrifugal fans, which, in addition, blew oil coolers. such a simple and effective air purification system led to the abandonment of the heat exchanger.In the case of its use, to achieve the required characteristics, it was required to purify the air by almost 100%, which was at least very difficult.GTD-1000T engine without a heat exchanger could work even if in up to 3% dust remained in the air. " - and there will be more details. If you don’t want - then in short - the Americans didn’t take a steam bath, they simply installed a filter in half of the tank. And here two in one - in the block of direct-flow cyclones, the ardor was removed due to centrifugal forces + there was a blowing of oil coolers. Two in one - a coarse air filter (then it was over there was already a small fine filter - well, this is my speculation based on logic, excuse me, the technique, although not new, but still there are elements of secrets and know-how, everything is detailed it will not spread) and it is also a cooler, which allows you to abandon the heat exchanger.
          3. self-propelled
            self-propelled 12 November 2013 17: 37
            +2
            Quote: aksakal
            - and what beauty technical decisions were made by Leningrad engine designers to increase the gas turbine engine's resistance to polluted air!

            what does the system for vibro-cleaning the turbine blades from dust cost, and the very fact of blowing the tank in the wind tunnel (so that less dust gets into the engine) ...
      4. 31231
        31231 12 November 2013 14: 12
        +1
        I don’t know how much the problem was the availability of diesel filters and their quality. For they are inexpensive. Civil diesel engines in no less polluted air work and nothing.
  4. predator.3
    predator.3 12 November 2013 11: 18
    +1
    besides the increased power (the old gas turbine "Abrams" produces 1500 hp) the new German diesel is more compact, it has a longer service life. The MB883 engine is significantly more economical - 50% more. This will require fewer tankers.


    The cannon is German, now the engine is German, the more than 1630 horses are respected by the Germans, economical by 50%, and how much fun is eating?
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 12 November 2013 11: 39
      11
      It should be noted that in the homeland of Rudolph Diesel, engines worthy of doing so can do it ... already enviable.
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 12 November 2013 12: 22
        +3
        Uh, well, as a rule, these diesels also need decent fuel.
        1. Jin
          Jin 12 November 2013 13: 02
          0
          Quote: fzr1000
          Uh, well, as a rule, these diesels also need decent fuel.


          Yes, what is it today ?! These engines are multi-fuel, multi-fuel if you want !!! Adapted for different byaku-kaku! What rubbish are you repeating ... one blurted out and away we go ...
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 12 November 2013 14: 25
            +4
            Quote: Jin
            Yes, what is it today ?! These engines are multi-fuel, multi-fuel if you want !!! Adapted for different byaku-kaku! What rubbish are you repeating ... one blurted out and away we go ...

            - only one BUT. Fill in a diesel engine in such a diesel engine - on the way out you can get not 1630 hp, but only 800-700. And now there’s such a technical nuance - I know that when making a turn on the tracks at high speed, the track that needs to run more and faster during the turn requires more horses for the duration of the turn than the diesel does? That caterpillar, which slows down, throws a second caterpillar, of course, horsepower, but if the transmission is not so hot what a masterpiece (and Abramych has not so hot what a masterpiece! wassat ), then it will simply devour almost all the energy released by the second caterpillar into heat and into mechanical ZERO. So when refueling with a bad byakoy of such a diesel engine, Abramych can turn into a turtle, but not a ninja, but just a turtle, which is convenient to shoot. laughing Well, okay, while we wait for a laugh, let's see the result of what will come of it. And the T-90 with the transfer of power from one caterpillar to the other when making a turn at full speed is much better, because it was possible to achieve a higher transmission efficiency and a more thoughtful design.
            1. Jin
              Jin 12 November 2013 14: 36
              +2
              Quote: aksakal
              - only one BUT. Fill in a diesel engine in such a diesel engine - on the way out you can get not 1630 hp, but only 800-700. And now there’s such a technical nuance - I know that when making a turn on the tracks at high speed, the track that needs to run more and faster during the turn requires more horses for the duration of the turn than the diesel does? That caterpillar that slows down, throws a second caterpillar, of course, horsepower, but if the transmission is not so hot what a masterpiece (and Abramych has not so hot what a masterpiece!)


              Yes, these guys do not like "byaku" at all, as well as their equipment, it is pointless to argue here))) Take the same helicopters for the needs of the Afghan group (or, as they say, the Afghan army), also our MI laughing . Well, not everything turns out striped, well, what can I do ...
            2. GSH-18
              GSH-18 12 November 2013 16: 09
              +1
              Quote: aksakal
              And the T-90 with the transfer of power from one caterpillar to the other when making a turn at full speed is much better, because it was possible to achieve a higher transmission efficiency and a more thoughtful design.

              T-90 everything is fine. It's just that with the new diesel engine, Abram will already have a .. for "non-advanced" transmission, +130 horsepower will easily solve this issue, won't it? If he did the same on his "old" 1500 l / s without much stress ...
              And the Germans are beautiful, do not take away. good
              1. aksakal
                aksakal 12 November 2013 17: 34
                +2
                Quote: GSH-18
                It's just that with the new diesel engine, Abram will already have a .. for "non-advanced" transmission, +130 horsepower will easily solve this issue, won't it? If he did the same on his "old" 1500 l / s without much stress ...
                And the Germans are beautiful, do not take away
                - while it is difficult to say anything, but 1630 hp - it is impressive. This is still a power record for serial tanks. And so - we will look further.
      2. SPLV
        SPLV 12 November 2013 14: 28
        +3
        Of course, Rudolph gave the name to the unit. But, as far as I remember, this type of engine was brought to mind in St. Petersburg. "Russian diesel" working on crude oil and multi-fuel engines - domestic engineers created.
        1. alex86
          alex86 12 November 2013 21: 38
          0
          EMNIP, initially the diesel was supposed to run on coal dust, as a result, wear and instability of work and start-up. Brought, again EMNIP, at the Nobel plant in St. Petersburg.
          1. self-propelled
            self-propelled 13 November 2013 17: 03
            0
            Quote: alex86
            initially the diesel was supposed to run on coal dust

            Interestingly, what kind of compression should there be in order for coal dust to ignite?
            1. alex86
              alex86 14 November 2013 20: 26
              0
              I can’t say, but this dust is regularly ignited (as well as flour, sugar, textile, etc.) at atmospheric pressure with a volume explosion (such explosions are almost common for grain elevators). And then that was why the idea of ​​using coal dust as a fuel was a strange idea, but it was a long time ago. But the St. Petersburg factory of the Nobel’s factory, our engineers understood the viciousness (not a fact, by the way ...) of the idea and made a normal diesel engine, moreover, EMNIP, first on crude oil.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  5. Algor73
    Algor73 12 November 2013 11: 25
    +8
    I am amazed at the amers, or rather their pragmatism. They could create a new diesel engine. But they thought it was cheaper to just buy in the Germans. From you and globalization, you can not grasp the immense. And more recently, they tried ...
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 12 November 2013 12: 59
      +1
      why wonder? They don’t have diesel submarines either, because their bulk in NATO allies
  6. killganoff
    killganoff 12 November 2013 11: 41
    +3
    "A major drawback of the Abrams tank was its high thermal signature, which made it easier to detect the tank with thermal imaging sights and aim high-precision weapons at it." - precisely from high-precision missiles "Abrams" suffered least of all.
    1. clidon
      clidon 12 November 2013 13: 37
      +6
      And why would they be soared about the high thermal visibility, if their opponents actually had virtually no devices to detect this noticeability. Appliances appeared - the Yankees were worried about disguise.
      Let me remind you that we also took up various projects such as "Cape" for a reason.
  7. Alexey Prikazchikov
    Alexey Prikazchikov 12 November 2013 11: 45
    +2
    Well, for now, our people are thinking of setting the gas turbine engine or not, the amines quietly decided to return to the good old diesel engine.
  8. major071
    major071 12 November 2013 11: 51
    14
    Thanks to the diesel, the exhaust is now cooler on 300%.

    What is it like? Well, at 100%, I still understand that it will not be at all. And at 300% - everything will suck back, and does the air freshen with a deodorant?
    1. dimon-media
      dimon-media 12 November 2013 12: 28
      +2
      Quote: major071
      What is it like? Well, at 100%, I still understand that it will not be at all. And at 300% - everything will suck back, and does the air freshen with a deodorant?

      That is, in three became cooler. if there was an exhaust of 330 degrees centigrade, then it will become 110 degrees. (I took the numbers from the bulldozer, do not judge strictly if I made a mistake in the temperatures)
      1. Dazdranagon
        Dazdranagon 12 November 2013 12: 41
        +2
        That's just the point that according to your calculations 66% turns out! Not correctly described in the article! (330 degrees is 100%, 110 degrees is 66%) hi
        1. major071
          major071 12 November 2013 13: 17
          +7
          This is simple math. For example, as you say, the exhaust temperature is 330 degrees, i.e. 100%. Decrease by 300%, i.e. remove 330, then another 330, and another 330, get minus 660 degrees? The exhaust will be minus. It was necessary to write downgrade in 3 times, apparently the author was simply mistaken. laughing
          1. Ezhaak
            Ezhaak 12 November 2013 13: 38
            +2
            That's right. Therefore, he immediately deleted his message. It’s good that it happened in time that something was wrong! :) And the exhaust from the gas turbine engine is very hot, and it’s true. Now I ran through Yandex, he says that the diesel engine has an exhaust in the region of 200 degrees, and the gas turbine engine, depending on the variant, is from 430 and even up to 1000 degrees Celsius.
            1. Jin
              Jin 12 November 2013 13: 47
              +3
              Quote: Hedgehog
              And the exhaust from the GTE is very hot, and that's true.


              Yeah, colleague! smile Can you imagine the sole of a tarpaulin? So, sitting on the cover of the MTO 80s, I hung my wet legs in tarpaulins to the divider ... it was hot through the sole, I had to quickly pull it out so that I didn't stay in some of the bootlegs, then repeat the procedure ... and so it sometimes "dried" hi
              1. Ezhaak
                Ezhaak 12 November 2013 13: 57
                +1
                Quote: Jin
                Can you imagine the sole of the canvas?

                Oddly enough, I imagine. I’ve been running for half a year in training, and then they switched to yuft. But the T-80 did not exist in our time.
                1. Jin
                  Jin 12 November 2013 14: 02
                  +1
                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  Oddly enough, I imagine. I’ve been running for half a year in training, and then they switched to yuft.


                  laughing I’m not in the sense, colleague, the question is purely rhetorical! That's just what you can imagine. smile
            2. Akim
              Akim 12 November 2013 13: 53
              0
              Quote: Hedgehog
              ) And the exhaust from the gas turbine engine is very hot, and this is true. Now I went over Yandex, he says that the diesel engine has an exhaust in the region of 200 degrees, and the gas turbine engine, depending on the variant, is from 430 and even up to 1000 degrees Celsius.

              But what about me and thousands more others running under the T-80? Stones in their faces beat, but no heat was felt. Or is such a frantic heat transfer in the environment?
              1. Ezhaak
                Ezhaak 12 November 2013 13: 55
                +1
                Quote: Akim
                But what about me and thousands more others running under the T-80?

                And immediately the question is, does the T-80 have exhaust under the bottom? I'm playing something.
                1. Jin
                  Jin 12 November 2013 14: 00
                  +2
                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  And immediately the question is, does the T-80 have exhaust under the bottom? I'm playing something.


                  If the diffuser is tilted up, then the exhaust jet is "back", if it is lowered, it is scattered.
                2. Akim
                  Akim 12 November 2013 14: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Hedgehog
                  And immediately the question is, does the T-80 have exhaust under the bottom?

                  Have you run in? A tank has the ability to drive over a trench and when you throw a grenade into the stern, it blows unpleasantly at you.
                  1. Ezhaak
                    Ezhaak 12 November 2013 14: 42
                    +1
                    Quote: Akim
                    Have you run in?

                    Never. According to the charter was not allowed. A signalman who wore a tank headset only because the radio station was installed on the BTR-50PU. soldier
              2. Jin
                Jin 12 November 2013 14: 09
                +4
                Quote: Akim
                But what about me and thousands more others running under the T-80? Stones in their faces beat, but no heat was felt. Or is such a frantic heat transfer in the environment?


                I will say one thing from my army practice. The frost was over 30, they could not start the BMP, the heating boiler did not work on it. Do you know what we "learned"? They opened the landing force in the BMP, the doors on the stopper, drove the 80-ku aft, raised the splitter, hit the "gas" ... after 15-20 minutes all the snow on the BMP melted, the armor soared ... started. In your case, I repeat, the divider was simply omitted, as it should be, that's all, and the gas turbine exhaust is VERY HOT in fact.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 12 November 2013 14: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: Jin
                  They opened the landing force in the BMP, the doors on the stopper, drove the 80-ku astern, raised the splitter, hit the "gas" ...

                  I would see a camera in the commandant’s office (officer or ordinary). Invented to blow on the internal tanks.
                  The soldiers on the march closed the battery and set fire to the BMP, so they and their deputy chiefs got "Mama Don't Cry". Everyone was then put in an unpleasant position. And since me ... - how am I worse?
                  1. Jin
                    Jin 12 November 2013 14: 28
                    +3
                    Quote: Akim
                    I would see a camera in the commandant’s office (officer or ordinary). Invented to blow on the internal tanks.


                    Have you ever frozen your legs to black? I am! And it was just driving! You would have told this to our captain-zapoteu, or to us then, half-frostbite ... I can even imagine where he would have taken you, and we sent with all his throat in that situation, this is at best ... No offense drinks
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 12 November 2013 14: 45
                      +1
                      Quote: Jin
                      Have you ever frozen your legs to black? I am! And it was just driving! You would tell this to our captain-zapoteu, or to us then, half-frostbite.

                      Did not take into account different climatic zones recourse
                      1. Jin
                        Jin 12 November 2013 14: 56
                        +2
                        Quote: Akim
                        Did not take into account different climatic zones


                        Broad is our native country smile drinks
                2. Aleks tv
                  Aleks tv 12 November 2013 15: 01
                  +1
                  Quote: Jin
                  minutes through 15-20 all the snow on the BMP has melted, the armor is soaring ... wound up.

                  laughing good
                  Greetings, Eugene.
                  hi
                  Long time no see.
                  1. Jin
                    Jin 12 November 2013 15: 09
                    +1
                    Quote: Aleks tv

                    Greetings, Eugene.

                    Long time no see.


                    Alexey, hello, friend !!! fellow drinks Aha, somehow "threads-branches" on VO did not intersect! hi
                    1. Aleks tv
                      Aleks tv 12 November 2013 15: 38
                      +3
                      Quote: Jin
                      Yeah, somehow did not intersect

                      drinks
                      Quote: Jin
                      Have you ever frozen your legs to black? I am! And it was just driving!

                      Zhen, how did you manage that? You seem to be warmer than ours in the T-72.
                      We were saved only by the classical "gut" ...
                      lol
                      1. Jin
                        Jin 12 November 2013 15: 54
                        +4
                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        Zhen, how did you manage that?


                        Yeah, damn it! smile How it happens ... in a nutshell, you can't tell))) In short, the chain of events, first rowing in the park with this fucking BMP, then the breakdown of the "box" on the march, in the steppe, then the tent "heating" in the holes, then driving on BMP, (unheated, completely killed training monster), then the march "Abratna to Poltava", in the BMP landing, again without heating, then the park, in the afternoon, until the evening, racing on armor, and in the evening ... oops, and the heel is black! and in the morning a blister with lymph on the whole heel ... Something like that. So, it was not in the 80s at all))) Veseluha mlyn smile
                      2. Aleks tv
                        Aleks tv 12 November 2013 16: 04
                        +1
                        Quote: Jin
                        march "Abratna to Poltava", in the BMP landing, again without heating

                        Panyatna ...
                        "Flew", it means, in a cold behe in the frost ...
                        It’s good that at least I didn’t turn my neck there or ... the trash flying over the landing squad didn’t hurt ...
                        laughing
                        Yes, fun.
                      3. Jin
                        Jin 12 November 2013 16: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        "Flew", it means, in a cold behe in the frost ...


                        Wow! Okay stuff! There was a joke in another! laughing When the landing door started, they didn’t slam it properly. The "flag", which sends a signal to the fur flap, gives a signal to close the door, is pressed, but the door is not closed, we went to the head behe, "the entire column is in front" ... oh, mlyayaya! We must run, buddy, I'll tell you sometime, let's laugh! drinks
          2. Ezhaak
            Ezhaak 12 November 2013 15: 00
            +1
            Quote: Akim
            and the heat was not felt. Or is such a frantic heat transfer in the environment?

            Quite possible. When I wrote about the exhaust, as you can see, I have not made specific indications of a specific model of the engine. Hence, there is such a large variation in temperature. One way or another, passing the exhaust pipe you feel the heat. Probably, if you were undressed, you would have felt better the heat from the tank.
            A simple example, car mufflers burn out, and the ends of the exhaust pipes themselves are extremely rare. The temperature drops a lot. And the atmosphere is even stronger. It seems to be. smile
        2. 31231
          31231 12 November 2013 14: 27
          0
          is it civilians ?! The military seems to me less.

          And according to the calculations, you guys are wrong, for 100 percent you need to take 110 degrees of diesel. And then you will succeed. 110С + 110С + 110С = 100% = 100% + 100%. So the author is right.
          1. Tommygun
            Tommygun 12 November 2013 18: 23
            +1
            Here, in general, interest cannot be applied. Only to absolute temperature. Otherwise, a spherical horse in a vacuum.
            I think it was about 30%.
            330С = 673,15К
            -30% = 471,2K = 198С.
            And since radiation is proportional to temperature in the 4 degree, a significant effect is obtained - four times less.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • ka5280
    ka5280 12 November 2013 15: 00
    0
    The temperature at the exit of the turbine is about 450-500 degrees, if the diesel engine 100-150 will have 300 percent for you.
  • Exististor
    Exististor 12 November 2013 11: 53
    +1
    1630 horse diesel nags. Oh! I wonder if we have something like that?
    1. Akim
      Akim 12 November 2013 12: 13
      +5
      Quote: Existor
      Oh! I wonder if we have something like that?

      But what does the Soviet type of tank weigh over 60 tons? Why then overdo it?
      1. Patton5
        Patton5 12 November 2013 12: 36
        +1
        such comrades, settled in the government
        Oh! I wonder if we have something like that?
        in one historical period, and came up with "catch up and overtake" and why is it necessary? These bright minds are not interested in thinking. The main thing is to get out of wide trousers, into the light of day and shout - look comrade 000.3mm longer !!!! The most graphic story, with "Buran" ...... If we continue to answer them in in this manner, we will always be in the role of catch-up hi
  • nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 12 November 2013 12: 21
    +1
    So, after all, diesel and nothing but diesel. Or maybe just more tanks are good and different.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 12 November 2013 12: 35
    +1
    What a twist. What will our t-80 defenders say?
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 12 November 2013 12: 43
      0
      Quote: chunga-changa
      What a twist. What will our t-80 defenders say?

      Wash themselves.
      1. vladsolo56
        vladsolo56 12 November 2013 13: 31
        +1
        Wash you say? and you ask those who served on the T-80, and ask whether they will wash or not, I’m sure that you will hear something worse in response. For tanks, there have long been rockets without thermal guidance, so thermal stealth is just an excuse. As I see it, when a diesel engine produces a cloud of soot, I think about the invisibility of tanks.
        1. Kars
          Kars 12 November 2013 14: 03
          +2
          Quote: vladsolo56
          this is just an excuse.

          Most likely the problems are in the power reserve and in the fact that even the Yankees are starting to save on Logistics. In this case, the fuel truck says one of the favorite goals for partisans.
        2. ATATA
          ATATA 12 November 2013 14: 56
          +3
          Quote: vladsolo56
          As I see it, when a diesel engine produces a cloud of soot, I think about the invisibility of tanks.

          According to combat characteristics, the ratio of T72 to T80, respectively, 1 to 1,15.
          At a cost of T72 to T80 1 to 3.
          Now think about who will win in the battle of 3 T72 and 1 T80. This does not include the cost of further operation, but only in manufacture.
          Research was carried out by our military experts in the late 80s.
          That's why we refused T80. Now that the GTE is not for the tank and reached the Amer.
      2. Jin
        Jin 12 November 2013 13: 51
        +2
        Quote: ATATA
        Wash themselves.


        That, not! This argument is meaningless. GTE has its own indisputable advantages, as well as its disadvantages - diesel. What is there to "wash". If it were not for the reduction in aircraft costs, it is not a fact that the diesel mattress covers would "muddy" the beginning. I do not presume to assert, so, thoughts out loud.
    2. Akim
      Akim 12 November 2013 12: 43
      +2
      Quote: chunga-changa
      What will our t-80 defenders say?

      Americans because of the gas turbine engine do not write them off, but will redo them. Another thing is whether there is economic feasibility in the alteration of the T-80BV and T-80U.
    3. Dazdranagon
      Dazdranagon 12 November 2013 12: 49
      +1
      In specific power, it approached the T-80. hi
  • alexbg2
    alexbg2 12 November 2013 12: 54
    +1
    Quote: dimon-media
    Quote: major071
    What is it like? Well, at 100%, I still understand that it will not be at all. And at 300% - everything will suck back, and does the air freshen with a deodorant?

    That is, in three became cooler. if there was an exhaust of 330 degrees centigrade, then it will become 110 degrees. (I took the numbers from the bulldozer, do not judge strictly if I made a mistake in the temperatures)

    In this calculation, a decrease from 330 to 110 degrees is a decrease of 66,6%, in the article it was correct to write: -three times. Although everyone understood what it was all about, just a typo, I overlooked it.
  • alexbg2
    alexbg2 12 November 2013 13: 02
    +1
    Quote: Hedgehog
    Quote: major071
    And 300% - everything will suck back

    So. We count. Now we have 200 degrees Celsius, and it was 600 degrees. Convert to percent.

    Translated. With an increase from 200 to 600, it will be 300%, but in the article we are talking about lowering the temperature, like a diesel instead of a turbine, and not vice versa. From 600 to 200, a decrease of 66,7% is obtained. The article is 300% simple typo, oversight, it is clear that I meant a decrease of 3 times.
  • alexbg2
    alexbg2 12 November 2013 13: 11
    +3
    Quote: chunga-changa
    What a twist. What will our t-80 defenders say?

    On the T-80, as well as on Abrams, you can put a diesel engine, like on the T-80UD.
    PS I'm not a defender, but for the sake of truth, the virtues of a tank are determined not only by the engine.
  • nikcris
    nikcris 12 November 2013 13: 12
    0
    Thanks to the diesel engine, the exhaust is now 300% cooler.

    Can anyone explain this math? belay
    PS It seems that the exhaust is 200% made of liquid nitrogen. fellow
  • Yeraz
    Yeraz 12 November 2013 13: 15
    +1
    It's cool to think of a bicycle, buy a ready one. Question, but will the Germans or in the USA be assembled?
  • sapran
    sapran 12 November 2013 14: 02
    0
    Wow, there’s a lot of interesting things here !!!
    Tell me, when will the first brigade conditionally get a combat readiness?
    The license for a German tank diesel as well as a production line for production was first bought by Germany from China (vehicles strictly for domestic use)
    do not judge one more thought and do not chop on the first news, the measures are radical and very costly, so it is possible that the experiments will be carried out, the military operation and the work of logistics will be checked later only the decision will be legalized.
    1. Kars
      Kars 12 November 2013 14: 10
      +1
      Quote: sapran
      Tell me, when will the first brigade conditionally get a combat readiness?

      But what's the difference? Or are their crews not ready now? The Abrashas are very thoroughly repaired - that's why they will receive diesel (very possibly brought from Germany) during the overhaul. In addition, the gas turbine engines for Abrams have not been released for a long time.

      Quote: sapran
      so expensive that it is possible that the experiments will be conducted, military operation and the work of logistics will be checked then only the decision will be legalized.

      Why should they check something? M60 wasn’t written off so long ago, and in my opinion they still exist in the National Guard.
      1. sapran
        sapran 12 November 2013 14: 36
        +1
        they have brigades that are just ready for battle.
        as soon as a message appears that the Marines have adopted a diesel instead of a gas turbine, then we will "look". and so this is just news of the day from strawberry lovers and to promote the costs of a new super technological answer.
        1. Kars
          Kars 12 November 2013 14: 49
          +1
          Quote: sapran
          -day from strawberry lovers and publicizing costs for a new super technological answer

          Well, why is news as news. Yes, and I don’t see any special PR as such.

          I’m also personally interested in the fact that with the Abrams for Saudi Arabia they put diesel there or not on M1A2S
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 12 November 2013 14: 25
    +5
    Combat weight M1A2SEP 63 tons.
    When moving in 1500 hp specific power 23,8 hp / t .. Which is not so much.
    Now, with the new engine, it will rise to 25,9. They had to do this for a long time.
    For T-80U with GTD-1250, it is equal to 27,1 hp / t.
    Striped ones made gas turbine engines more economical and lowered the temperature of the exhaust, but nothing was said about solving the biggest problem - air purification ... hehe.

    In the world only two countries have practice working with tank GTE.
    We have a more compact MTO and have experience in good air purification.
    We, too, cannot stop and lose the invaluable backlog. We have too big a country, climatic zones - like dirt.
    There will be work and diesel and gas turbine engines. If Armate had made two options for the power plant - this would be reasonable. Each has its own place on the theater.
    But this is not done. It's a pity.
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 12 November 2013 14: 34
      +4
      Quote: Aleks tv
      But this is not done. Sorry

      - I agree. But the Americans draw their money and can afford to have on Abramich and a gas turbine engine, and here's a diesel engine. Russians are still a little expensive. About "Now, with the new engine, it will rise to 25,9. They should have done this for a long time.
      For the T-80U with the GTE-1250, it is equal to 27,1 hp / t. "- I think it makes no sense to create more and more powerful diesel engines and GTEs with high constant power. It is better to focus on creating multi-threaded gearboxes with a deep separation of power flows , with good kinetic torque adders such as Golkin's adders and the creation of good and compact energy storage devices.That is, a diesel with a capacity of 1000 hp, if necessary, the energy storage can add a couple of thousand hp for a short period, for example, spurt (very dynamic acceleration) in a combat situation, to make a good turn at full speed, etc. Besides this, the drive would be useful for working with the engine off, for silent movement with the engine off for short distances, etc. can be mechanical (super flywheels of Nurbey Gulia, can deliver any power in an arbitrarily short time), electric (a battery can provide any power, provided that it is coupled in lokom condensers, and so - will give out in portions)), gas-dynamic and a bunch of structures.
      1. Cat
        Cat 12 November 2013 15: 19
        +1
        Quote: aksakal
        - I agree. But the Americans draw their money and can afford to have it on Abramych and GTD, and here’s the diesel engine. The Russians are still a little expensive.

        But the Russians do not need to draw anything: everything necessary for the modernization of existing equipment, development and production of a new one, as well as for providing the army with everything that the soul desires — and so, many things necessary for this are available in the warehouses of the Moscow Region.
        If someone does not understand - we are talking about machine guns. To put a couple in the Duma, a couple more in the government, in the General Staff, too, will not hinder. Well, in other official structures there, and state-owned corporations like Gazprom. And as soon as a deputy or a minister signs a left-wing document with incomprehensible sums - so right away it’s the turn across the belly. Schaub knew. And do not care that the documentary, they say, careless subordinates slipped - so who is their boss, who promoted them to warm places? Oh well.
        It would also be nice to equip machine-gun points near expensive restaurants or clubs there, and land tactical assault forces at all sorts of fashionable resorts - well, a modest bureaucratic salary for visiting such places will not be enough, it will not be enough ... and if it did, then what? So - the turn. The bureaucrats also relate to relatives, or you see - dads are working hard for the good of the country, and wives with children, instead of providing home comfort and cooking borscht - are traveling around the world. The mess. And who does not agree - a divorce from a deputy, and the subsequent marriage to a combine operator or a locksmith there, and already ride their salary anywhere, even on the moon.

        Such a simple technique for arranging Russia. Yes, it’s rude and undemocratic, but efficiency ... all nano-managers will strangle themselves with envy. The only drawback is the crazy ammo consumption. Well, yes, this stuff was stolen in the warehouses, too, the USSR tried at one time - for the first time it was definitely enough, and there, you see, the people would get used to it, and there would be enough rare single shots, even aimless ones. Just - so as not to relax.

        And if such a system is introduced, then the Central Bank of the Russian Federation printing press can be leased to Americans, so that it does not rust idle. Because for the full provision of their own needs there will be enough money available, they will also remain with their grandchildren.
  • The fat man
    The fat man 12 November 2013 14: 36
    0
    Quote: predator.3
    besides the increased power (the old gas turbine "Abrams" produces 1500 hp) the new German diesel is more compact, it has a longer service life. The MB883 engine is significantly more economical - 50% more. This will require fewer tankers.


    The cannon is German, now the engine is German, the more than 1630 horses are respected by the Germans, economical by 50%, and how much fun is eating?

    350 liters M1a1
    250 liters Leopard 2a5 Mercedes Benz
    250-280 liters Lecklerk Wartsila
    360 liters of T-72AG
    read in one article
    I can not vouch for the competence of the author of the article
    but it was more correct to find out the actual power reserve in various modes and also depending on the ground
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 12 November 2013 17: 47
      +1
      Quote: Fat Man
      I can not vouch for the competence of the author of the article

      And you are doing the right thing! Especially about the "Leopard 2a5 Mercedes Benz" laughing
      Take an interest, there is a lot of information. And in tanks, like in other vehicles, consumption can vary significantly, mainly depending on weight and road conditions. Then the perfection of the motor. Excluding, of course, GTE, there is a song here.
      What I know, I’ll inform you: they write off the ticket (that is, the average consumption per km of T-72, T-64 -4,5 l, t-62 -3,5 l, T-80 -7 l) can be somewhere then he was mistaken, but not much. On the track with a hard surface T-72 can fit in a liter of 2, if not to drive and there are no large rises.
  • ka5280
    ka5280 12 November 2013 15: 07
    0
    I am amazed by the extra power on Russian diesel engines - the B92 with 38.8 liters of working volume of only 840 hp. It is 21.6 bhp. per liter VOLVO has 16.6 liters per 770 liters of working volume. i.e. 46.3 hp per liter. The question for Russian diesel builders is why such a lag?
    1. Gronsky
      Gronsky 12 November 2013 16: 04
      +3
      There is such a thing as the degree of forcing. The more power is removed from a liter of displacement, the more ICE is boosted. Accordingly, the thermal stress of the parts is greater, the dynamic loads on the parts of the cylinder-piston group, the KShM and the timing parts are greater, better and more expensive steels and lubricants are needed, the service life and reliability of the diesel are less, its ability to work in the most adverse conditions, less . etc. Yes, and this affects the price of the unit. The Soviet design school has always paid great attention to the survivability of armored vehicles, hence all the design decisions.
      If you read the reports of tank damage in the Chechen war, you’ll be amazed
      how technology could stay on track. There is the separation of several diesel cylinders, and the breakdown of the engine block, and work with a completely dry lubrication system. And after all this, the tanks came to the battalion on their own. And this is also a consequence of the use of low-capacity large-volume diesel engines on tanks. Many examples can be given from sports, but you will have to write a lot of text.
      In general, it is.
      1. ka5280
        ka5280 12 November 2013 16: 58
        0
        ICE with a high specific moschnosti could occupy a smaller volume in the MTO, and this would affect the reduction in tank size. Personally, my opinion is that a modern tank diesel should have the form of an arrangement of W 12 cylinders, a working volume of about 3 liters, with a specific gravity of 50 hp per liter. With the arrangement of the cylinders in the form of W, the length of the engine decreases, which will allow freeing up some volume in the MTO. But in general, the design of ICE is a constant search for a compromise cost-moshchnost - durability.
        1. Gronsky
          Gronsky 12 November 2013 17: 16
          0
          Quite fair and obvious. But as you yourself wrote, the construction of an internal combustion engine (and not only an internal combustion engine) is always a compromise and the designer’s attack on his throat. Sometimes at the designer himself the brainchild evokes conflicting feelings, but the priorities are set and you need to fit into them.
          I personally prefer the X-shaped layout, like the Chelyabinsk 12CHN360 diesel engine (I brought it in the message further). Compared to the vv-shaped she has less height. And in general, the design turned out to be aesthetic, proportional and simply beautiful. Look at the wiring of the intake manifold, it's a masterpiece! Let's hope that he will already be on Armata. If they leave a relict old man, the whole project is worthless.
    2. aksakal
      aksakal 12 November 2013 18: 11
      +1
      Quote: ka5280
      I am surprised by the extra power on Russian diesel engines - the B92 with 38.8 liters of working volume of only 840 hp. It is 21.6 bhp. per liter VOLVO has 16.6 liters per 770 liters of working volume. i.e. 46.3 hp per liter. The question for Russian diesel builders is why such a lag?
      - wait, there is one more aspect. No, well, Toyota has a sports turbodiesel, I don't remember the brand of this sports car, the power is already 210 hp. And then there is KAMAZ, which also has a capacity of 210 hp (well, there are KAMAZ models and 360 hp, we are not talking about them, we are talking about ordinary KAMAZ of the first years of production). The sports car has 3 liters, the KAMAZ has 15 liters (I don't remember exactly here). It seems that there is only one power, let me remind you - the power "is work per unit of time", but it is, as it were, a slightly different power structure, these engines have completely different torque diagrams relative to the engine speed ... A three-liter diesel engine is sharpened for fast acceleration of a light car, a KAMAZ one - for completely different work. Similarly, here - completely different in design and DESTINATION of the diesel engine, you somehow managed to compare them smile and even with the accusation of Russian engine builders. Well, honestly - read a little for the sake of erudition, take an interest. You run into engines at every step ... I'll tell you a secret - your iron horse has the same -))). Vaughn above GSH-18 became interested "for the sake of erudition" - how not to welcome this? Therefore, it is not a lag, but the technical parameters are different.
      1. ka5280
        ka5280 12 November 2013 18: 57
        0
        Let me explain to you why the Toyota engine has a greater specific power than the KAMAZ engine: the Toyota engine has a turbo, a higher fuel injection pressure, a lower piston stroke and its higher speed.
        KAMAZ has an atmospheric engine with low fuel injection pressure, valves per cylinder 2, one inlet and one exhaust. The piston in the cylinder moves more slowly, which allows the engine to have high torque in the absence of a turbo.
        P.S. A diesel engine has exactly the same design and mechanics as a healthy ship or a small car.
    3. Alekseev
      Alekseev 12 November 2013 18: 25
      +1
      Quote: ka5280
      I am amazed by the extra power on Russian diesel engines - the B92 with 38.8 liters of working volume of only 840 hp. It is 21.6 bhp. per liter VOLVO has 16.6 liters per 770 liters of working volume.

      1. Well, not 840 hp, but 1000 hp .. At 2000 rpm, this is important.
      2. Max. Power is largely a theoretical value showing how much power a motor can develop under favorable conditions.
      In practice, the curve of the change in torque and (respectively, power) of the engine over the entire speed range is important.
      3. A tank motor differs from a truck motor in that they are designed for almost constant operation at a load close to full. Tanks do not drive in "tightness". Nearly.
      4. A good example from life: my acquaintance (with a higher education), even for a Magarych, cannot plainly explain why, for example, an engine from a Toyota Corolla (1,6 l, 124 hp) cannot be put on PAZ bus (4,2 L, 115 HP) request Rather, you can put it, but what will come of it! wassat
      And diesel engines of type B-2, purely tank engines, and their ceiling has been reached.
      For tanks of the 21st century there is a motor, it is up to Armata itself.
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 12 November 2013 22: 07
        +1
        Quote: ka5280
        KAMAZ has an atmospheric engine with low fuel injection pressure, valves per cylinder

        Quote: Alekseev
        A good example from life: my friend (with a higher education), even for a magarych, can’t plainly explain why, for example, an engine from a Toyota Corolla (1,6 l, 124 hp) can’t be put on a PAZ bus (4,2 l, 115 hp) request Rather, it can be delivered, but what comes of it
        - Well, it turns out, you sort of figure it out, well, then froze the obvious stupidity, comparing the Volvo dvigun with the tank one? For fun? Well, Alekseev explained me more clearly:
        Quote: Alekseev
        Max power is largely a theoretical value showing how much power a motor can develop under favorable conditions.
        In practice, the curve of the change in torque and (respectively, power) of the engine over the entire speed range is important.
        3. A tank motor differs from a truck motor in that they are designed for almost constant operation at a load close to full. Tanks do not drive in "tightness". Nearly
        - hence the conclusion - compare comparable things.
  • DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 12 November 2013 16: 23
    0
    I wonder why the Germans did not announce the creation of this engine? Or are they already putting it on their leopards without much hype? The Germans offered the Americans their 1500 strong diesel, but they refused in favor of their manufacturers, in favor of their turbine. Probably put this diesel on merkava? Too similar characteristics of diesel engines for leopard and merkava. Diesels are probably the same. Fuel mixed with air in the engine burns out. do you know that for burning 1 liter of solarium, roughly. let's say 100 liters of air. For better combustion, good mixing of fuel and oxygen is needed. mixing occurs in the vortex chamber of the diesel engine. THAN A PERFECT VORTEX CHAMBER, the better the mixing of air and fuel, the better the fuel will burn and give up its energy, plus the optimal timing phases. So the less the engine eats fuel, the less air it needs. understandably?. Fuel burns down in diesels and gas turbines, and air is consumed per unit weight of fuel, it is about the same, but the efficiency of a gas turbine engine is much lower, therefore, the consumption of fuel and air is much higher in turbines, plus the use of silencers in turbines is contraindicated. Modern aspirated diesel engines have approximately 30-50 hp. per liter engine volume. THOSE. 4 cylinder 2 liter diesel, aspirated can be 60 horsepower and above is quite normal. The diesel on our tanks is 40 LITERS !!!!!!!!! V-vortex chamber. this is not a camera, this is an ostrich's nest, a small depression in the piston ... and that’s it !!!!! To produce tank diesel engines of the B2 series is a crime against RUSSIA. Tank industry During the Second World War, it developed at an unprecedented pace, from KV1 of 1940 to IP 3 in 1944-1945. And already at IS 7, the designers realized that the B2 engine does not meet modern requirements. Do our tanks need a new diesel! EYO !!!! It is entirely possible that new German diesels can be installed on helicopters? So for interest ,,, YaMZ 238 engine with a capacity of 240 hp For racing trucks, approximately 800 hp are removed from it. !!!! See the rally KAMAZ !!!!
    1. Kars
      Kars 12 November 2013 16: 28
      +1
      Quote: DZ_98_B
      I wonder why the Germans did not announce the creation of this engine?

      According to rumors, the Germans already have 2000 hp engines, only the Bundeswehr cuts the budget.
    2. Cat
      Cat 12 November 2013 16: 39
      +2
      Quote: DZ_98_B
      So for interest ,,, YaMZ 238 engine with a capacity of 240 hp For racing trucks, approximately 800 hp are removed from it. !!!! See the rally KAMAZ !!!!

      Yes, but this engine is enough for exactly one race. And that is not always the case. And if in a war, when the life of a tank is estimated in hours or even minutes, such an approach is quite possible - then for service in peaceful time when the tank is in service for decades - the use of such engines will not stretch a single budget of any army, even if its 10 printing presses were financed. Unless the tanks leave the factory for conservation, and the crews learn on something less expensive and more tenacious. The only question is - what are these crews, in which case they will fight - transferring to a technique familiar only from the pictures? That's it...
      1. ka5280
        ka5280 12 November 2013 18: 12
        0
        In principle, the issue is solvable. For example, in peacetime, the B92 stands on the tank, with the beginning of mobilization on the tanks, they install dviglo with greater moshchnost and less survivability, as a result, the crew fights on the same T-72 only with dvigl not in 840 hp, but say in 1500 l .with. To speed up and facilitate replacement, the design must be modular. By type of power plant on the Leo-2.
        1. Cat
          Cat 12 November 2013 20: 00
          0
          Quote: ka5280
          In principle, the issue is solvable. For example, in peacetime, the B92 stands on the tank, with the beginning of mobilization on the tanks, they install dviglo with greater moshchnost and less survivability, as a result, the crew fights on the same T-72 only with dvigl not in 840 hp, but say in 1500 l .with. To speed up and facilitate replacement, the design must be modular. By type of power plant on the Leo-2.

          if for a Formula 1 car instead of a 700 hp engine put a similar in mass and dimensions, but only for 1500 horses - how far will this car go? I don’t think so. Even if in the cockpit there will be not an average trained mechanic driver, but a super-professional racer of piece bottling, a multiple champion of various grand prix. It is the same with a tank - it will already be a completely different vehicle, with completely different behavior. And getting used to it after many years of experience on a "peaceful" engine will be no more difficult than learning from scratch. Again: in addition to the engine, there is also a transmission and a chassis - which are designed to work with an engine of a specific power, and with a qualitative change (which is plus or minus) - they will work, to put it mildly, crookedly. And also the quality of fuels and lubricants, to which highly demanding engines are terribly demanding, and the service, who will deal with them - the very MTOshniki for whom 5-TDF is "too complicated and capricious"? And so on, etc., with a thoughtful consideration of such inconsistencies, more than one page will be typed.
          1. Gronsky
            Gronsky 12 November 2013 20: 10
            0
            Quote: Cat
            those same MTOshniki for whom 5-TDF is "too complex and capricious"


            Isn’t this really so?
            1. Cat
              Cat 12 November 2013 20: 53
              0
              Quote: Gronsky
              Isn’t this really so?

              so, not so ... I myself have not seen 5TDF in my eyes, as well as B-84. Not to mention the service. But according to those acquaintances who have been delving into tank engines to their fullest - quite a sane engine - subject to proper operation, of course. But if you approach the engine on the principle of "a good knock will show itself", then not only 5TDF - any diesel engine, whether Russian, German or Japanese, will quickly turn into a piece of scrap metal.
              1. Gronsky
                Gronsky 12 November 2013 21: 22
                0
                Quote: Cat
                quite a sane engine - subject to competent operation, of course.


                That’s the whole thing and the hitch. I had a direct relationship with them in 1989 in the glorious country of Germany. So this little motor, like a muslin lady, don’t squeeze there, God forbid, don’t share, look so that you don’t overstrain the heart, etc. And next to them were 62s with their dinosaur motors, and their crews had a favorite pastime to watch our intercourse and to gloat ... under.
                1. Cat
                  Cat 12 November 2013 21: 57
                  0
                  Quote: Gronsky
                  So this little motor, like a muslin lady, don’t squeeze there, God forbid, don’t share, look so that you don’t overstrain the heart, etc ...

                  Just something? Such a big and overwhelming problem - to add, tighten with the right moment, and to look at devices when driving, at least occasionally?
                  A case from personal communication with engines (albeit not with tank ones):
                  in the distant 90s, in the countryside forgotten by car services, it was necessary to change the liners on our own "six". I saw how this is done, plus there was a thick book with a detailed description of the process, plus a full trunk of the tool - there is only no key with a dynamometer in order to observe the moment indicated in the book. True, the neighbor has such a key - but to stomp to the neighbor as much as 100 meters, and the neighbor is not obliged to sit at home, he suddenly dumped somewhere, and to clarify, they did not come up with mobile phones in those days ... Therefore, we estimate the effort "by eye "and count the key turns. As a result, on the 4th root cover, the bolt is safely tightened, the thread breaks ... after which everything that is already twisted is unscrewed, the block, together with the magarych, is loaded into the trunk of a friend and transported to the turner. We drill, cut the thread, sharpen the bolt, bring it home ... stomp to the neighbor behind the dynamometer - And only then we proceed to the assembly of the engine =)))
                  What is the moral of this story? And the fact that the story did not happen because the VAZ engine is so moody and gentle - but because I myself am a lazy person and dyperan)))
                  So your MTOshniki, along the way, faithfully follow the theory that eye = diamond. And then they are surprised that the engine, they say, is crap, does not recognize the sledgehammer, thirsty for tenderness and affection ... Somehow.
                  1. Gronsky
                    Gronsky 12 November 2013 22: 25
                    0
                    Quote: Cat
                    So your MTOshniki, along the way, faithfully follow the theory that eye = diamond. And then they are surprised that the engine, they say, is crap, does not recognize the sledgehammer, thirsty for tenderness and affection ... Somehow.


                    I myself am a pedant and a bore in my life repeatuntil I spin, I’ll tighten, double-check, I will bring everyone to white heat. Otherwise I will not sleep and eat. But this constant, over-obligatory, attention and care sometimes got me too. In addition, the increased demands of this engine for the qualifications of operators, only one side.
                    The design itself, this is its problem. You seem to be well aware of her, there is no need to tell you what works and how.
                    You must admit that in combat conditions, the more so it’s tanks, and not planes (dirt, interruptions in supply, the inability to allocate time for leaving at all), simple and omnivorous, though not so hot which advanced diesel engine is preferable.
                    My subjective opinion, as a person "somehow sideways" winked
                    related to design - I wouldn’t do that.
                    Waters new Chelyabinsk really interesting.
                    I look forward to detailed information about him, I feel it will be interesting.
              2. Alekseev
                Alekseev 12 November 2013 21: 35
                0
                Quote: Cat
                But according to those acquaintances who rummaged around in tank engines -

                There are very few such friends, the diesel 5TDF (6TD) is specially created for that in it someone did not pick. As its creators wrote, an aviation technological level is required. And not what kind of special literacy is needed during its operation. No adjustments in operation. Pour oil, as it should, filters, in the summer water specially softened, through a special filter, with a 3-component additive.
                The Achilles' heel of it is in another - it is highly accelerated, heavy (pistons with steel plates, so as not to burn out) piston, 3000 rpm, the most intense thermal regime of all tank engines. The plant allowed earlier (not from a good life) 115 degrees, now 125. A lot of air is needed for boosting, because without a purge a 2-stroke engine will not work. Because of this, a large air vent, only cyclones, so as not to increase the resistance at the inlet. Cyclones were slightly oiled, dust wear started.
                That is, it does not like overload, heat and cold (when starting up) it is easy to "kill", especially if 2000-3000 thousand kilometers have already passed.
                But it is easy to change! And, if the parts have a stock of such motors, then the shortcomings are tolerable. The tank does not live much in battle.
                This motor is good only new from the factory industry. After overhaul at an armored repair plant, that quality is no longer there.
        2. Gronsky
          Gronsky 12 November 2013 20: 07
          0
          Quote: ka5280
          For example, in peacetime, the B92 stands on the tank, with the beginning of mobilization on the tanks, a dviglo is installed with greater moshchnost and less survivability


          You apparently have a very distant idea of ​​the development and production processes in engineering. repeat
          Otherwise, you would not have written. I didn’t want to hurt you, if you suddenly want to hurt you - you don’t need to.
          1. ka5280
            ka5280 12 November 2013 21: 39
            0
            Why, then. Do you have a car? For example, on the same car, you can put several engines of different sizes, what prevents you from doing everything with the tank too?
            1. Gronsky
              Gronsky 12 November 2013 21: 58
              0
              Quote: ka5280
              what prevents to do everything with the tank too?


              Fundamentally nothing interferes. But you again compared two incomparable things. wink I do not want to develop, the soldier’s arm is tired. hi
            2. Alekseev
              Alekseev 12 November 2013 22: 06
              0
              Quote: ka5280
              Why, then. Do you have a car?

              And you look at the MTO of the tank, and then under the hood of the truck, and questions will disappear by themselves.
              Requirements for volume, overall power kW / m. cube of engine volume (not working, but in general volume) are very high. There is no extra space in the tank. And by the way, a diesel engine based on the ancient B-2 were champions in this parameter in the 70s. Power increased from 580 hp. on V-55V up to 780 V-46, 840-V-84, 1000-V-92s, but they are installed on different machines, there is no "range" of engines on tanks anywhere in the world.
              But the meaning in your proposal is still there, it’s not accepted here, and abroad they make tanks without a tower and with a de-flected and more durable motor for driving training.
            3. aksakal
              aksakal 12 November 2013 22: 21
              +1
              Quote: ka5280
              its more than that. Do you have a car? For example, on the same car, you can put several engines of different sizes, what prevents you from doing everything with the tank too?

              an amazing mixture of naive with more or less advanced. laughing That is, all the same, somehow understands, but sometimes rrraz and at least stand even fall !!! laughing
              And now, in essence, creating a tank dvigun is a big difficult problem, only the powers that are very strong in scientific and technical terms can do it. For example, South Korea, which itself produces very good passenger diesel engines for the same Hyundai Stareks, DID NOT DO IT (! belay !) with the creation of a tank diesel! And in a single copy! What series of engines of different power are there for different situations and different climatic and combat conditions? laughing What are you talking about? Take the same Turks. It is also not the most technically backward country, they themselves managed to develop the Altai tank ... But they are in no hurry to develop the dvigun themselves. With Japan, they will jointly develop ... Well, it is clear how jointly. Yapi will develop based on their experience, and Turks will simply pay. And note - again we are not talking about a series of dviguns of different power laughing What are you talking about? God forbid one to develop and bring to the series, and that would be with acceptable characteristics and with sufficient MOTOR RESOURCE. A country that has exceeded in a tank engine in 2000 hours can be proud of itself approximately as a space power.
              1. Gronsky
                Gronsky 12 November 2013 22: 33
                +1
                Quote: aksakal
                A country that has exceeded in a tank engine in 2000 hours can be proud of itself approximately as a space power.


                Neither add nor diminish - say the truth. hi
              2. ka5280
                ka5280 13 November 2013 11: 07
                0
                I’m not talking about Turkey and South Korea, but about Russia. Here, in general, there is also a design bureau for engine technology. What prevents a rational approach to solving this issue?
          2. ka5280
            ka5280 13 November 2013 14: 15
            0
            I really have nothing to do with engineering =) But direct operation of marine diesel engines =)
    3. Nayhas
      Nayhas 12 November 2013 18: 00
      +1
      Quote: DZ_98_B
      The Germans offered the Americans their 1500 strong diesel, but they refused in favor of their manufacturers, in favor of their turbine.

      Here you need to remember when Abrams was created. Then the question of fuel cost was not an acute issue and they simply neglected it, while American cars were also not economical. Now that a barrel of oil is more than $ 100 a year, and Congress cuts army spending, fuel efficiency is becoming very important ...
      1. clidon
        clidon 12 November 2013 18: 42
        0
        When choosing an engine for Abram, the oil crisis had already passed and the fuel was expensive.
    4. ka5280
      ka5280 12 November 2013 19: 03
      0
      In modern diesel engines with a common rail system, fuel injection occurs at a pressure of 1500-2000 bar, the inflation pressure is on average 2.5-3.5 bar. For a long time already there is no vortex chamber, it is simply not needed.
  • DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 12 November 2013 16: 29
    +1
    Push-pull not offer !!!!!
  • Gronsky
    Gronsky 12 November 2013 16: 34
    0
    Quote: DZ_98_B
    Our tanks need a new diesel!


    It's time, but the delivery was delayed.
  • Gronsky
    Gronsky 12 November 2013 17: 21
    +2
    This is where the layout density is better visible. As for me, it's just a masterpiece. Linker Stalin Prize. good
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 12 November 2013 18: 06
      0
      Quote: Gronsky
      It's time, but the delivery was delayed.

      Yes, this engine has been around for many years. He successfully passed the test, but where to put it? Make a new MTO for the T-90 (72). It is unlikely economically and technically feasible. Let's see how he shows himself in Armata.
    2. ka5280
      ka5280 12 November 2013 18: 20
      0
      The overturning pistons are already a minus, the oil will drain into the exhaust manifold, burn out in it, and slag will accumulate on the gas part of the supercharged turbo unit, and this will kill the turbo in a couple of hours. How does the oil system work here? Separate oil tank and pump for pumping the oil system? For elementary replacement of bearing shells or replacement of one piston, it is necessary to disassemble all dviglo. I will say as a diesel engineer, the repair of this unit will be mega-hemorrhoid.
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev 12 November 2013 18: 27
        0
        Quote: ka5280
        Separate oil tank and pump for pumping the oil system?

        So with all tank diesels. And the troops do not overhaul them thoroughly.
        1. ka5280
          ka5280 12 November 2013 18: 42
          0
          That is a tank diesel with a dry sump, I understand you correctly?
          1. Alekseev
            Alekseev 12 November 2013 19: 34
            0
            Yes, with a dry one. Before the start-up, pressure is created in the system by an oil-pumping electric pump.
          2. Gronsky
            Gronsky 12 November 2013 20: 22
            0
            Quote: ka5280
            That is a tank diesel with a dry sump, I understand you correctly?


            A very common and proven solution, and not only on tank diesels. Imagine what happens if a 55-ton (average) machine, in which the engine has a conventional combined lubrication system with a pallet, climbs, for example, a 100% long lift. By the end of this climb, I think the engine will turn into one large, monolithic piece of iron, due to exposure of the oil receiver in the pan and work in the dry with a huge load.
            1. ka5280
              ka5280 12 November 2013 20: 52
              0
              100% rise is a vertical wall =)
              I saw B-2 and B-46 on Soviet-built merchant ships, they were used as emergency generators, but there was oil in the crankcase.
              I understood the meaning of what was said!
              1. Gronsky
                Gronsky 12 November 2013 21: 14
                +1
                Quote: ka5280
                100% rise is a vertical wall =)


                100% slope or rise is 45 degrees. Google, there is a lot of information in nete.

                Quote: ka5280
                there was oil in the crankcase


                That's right, but it was pumped out of the crankcase into an oil tank of a much larger volume, and already from it it was fed through the filters into the system.
                The definition of dry sump does not mean that it is completely dry.
                Having passed through the clearances in the main and connecting rod plain bearings (necks), the oil must merge somewhere. So it merges into the crankcase, but the crankcase is small, almost flat. The oil tank has a much larger volume. Therefore, in the system at any position of the engine there is pressure. If I am not mistaken, the Czech Tatras (freight) also have such a system. Among the trucks, this is rare.
                1. ka5280
                  ka5280 12 November 2013 21: 35
                  0
                  About 250 liters of oil were included in this card, and there were no oil tanks. I can assume that it was optimized for installation on a ship.
                  1. Gronsky
                    Gronsky 12 November 2013 21: 55
                    0
                    Quote: ka5280
                    I can assume that it was optimized for installation on a ship.


                    Most likely it is. I have not dealt with the ship or stationary performance of these diesels. Related to tank and rail options.
      2. Jin
        Jin 12 November 2013 22: 19
        0
        Quote: ka5280
        The overturning pistons are already a minus, the oil will drain into the exhaust manifold, burn out in it, and slag will accumulate on the gas part of the supercharged turbo unit, and this will kill the turbo in a couple of hours.


        what or my skis don’t go ... where will the oil drain? What to die for? Where are we smoking? (Hiss in a scratch in PM) bully
        1. ka5280
          ka5280 13 November 2013 12: 31
          0
          You have a respected, leagues do not go perfectly, look carefully at the location of the lower cylinders. And think about where and how the oil will flow.
  • Aydar
    Aydar 12 November 2013 18: 47
    0
    As a result, the Americans will have a completely German tank, a German gun, a German engine, even caterpillars and those German ones.
    1. Gronsky
      Gronsky 12 November 2013 20: 02
      0
      And note, do not complex about this. And I think that this engine will be assembled in the states.
  • DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 12 November 2013 20: 58
    0
    It seems to me that this is a re-organized B2. Same anchor studs. the same stitching studs. The same timing drive shafts. The same 12 cylinders .... Yes, and a CPG with a camera, a cylinder piston group, a vortex, or rather without it will be the same. The real mono is made in order to optimize the operation of a diesel engine with non-direct injection. It is clear that it is not clear. You open any USSR diesel engine and look at the piston from above. In the piston there is a spherical recess with a cone-shaped little stick in the middle. this is a direct injection vortex chamber. It is distinguished by increased noise, is used on heavy engines abroad, and here. not direct injection, either prechamber or vortex chamber, the vortex chamber is located in the cylinder head. less noisy, slightly less economical, cold start is difficult. For a better start, glow plugs are installed. Installed on cars abroad.
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 12 November 2013 21: 48
      0
      Quote: DZ_98_B
      or prechamber, or vortex chamber, the vortex chamber is located in the cylinder head. less noisy, a little less economical

      Tank engines of type B-2
      with direct (i.e., as you say, direct) fuel injection and 4 valves per cylinder since 39 years old.
      And on TD, there are no valves request - windows, but there are as many as 4 nozzles per cylinder, plus an air intake valve. yes
      Fort. cameras are on the DT-75, on modern (recent years) passenger cars there are none. (Or almost none)
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 13 November 2013 06: 49
    0
    Quote: 31231
    Something I did not see in the article that the diesel engine will be installed during modernization. Maybe let's not rush to conclusions and wait ?! And it can only put diesel on new ones.


    The production of Abrams tanks in the states since the 1993 of the year has been discontinued, they simply modernize and redo the existing tank fleet in a circle, all of them new - disassembled, updated and reassembled old ones.
    (If you do not pay attention to the rya-patriotic advertisement of the tank in this film, then the full process is shown here - how this happens)

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Aw1ce4PwjA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D_Aw1ce4PwjA

    I couldn’t post the video, the controllability of the site from mobile devices is, to put it mildly, disgusting, so by reference.
  • ka5280
    ka5280 13 November 2013 12: 28
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    Found on the website of the company manufacturer MTU http://www.mtu-online-shop.de/fileadmin/dam/download_media/print_media/D_3231131
    _12VMT883CRI_01.pdf
    1. Gronsky
      Gronsky 13 November 2013 15: 48
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      The moment is impressive! 5000 Nm.
      1. ka5280
        ka5280 13 November 2013 16: 45
        0
        I'm more interested in blowing pressure. Although for such a compact dvigla quite gut!
        1. Gronsky
          Gronsky 13 November 2013 22: 11
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          And where is it indicated? Cheto I did not see.
          And here is what he said short-stroke. That is what it means to correctly calculate and optimize the processes of injection, combustion, valve timing and gas exchange. With a short crank reached an impressive torque. And this should have a positive effect on engine throttle response, i.e. it should pick up and slow down pretty quickly.
          And another interesting detail - this engine is a vivid example of the German design approach, no layout tricks, the usual V-shaped scheme, but brought to perfection and made with the highest precision. Well done, what can I say.
  • lucidlook
    lucidlook 14 November 2013 06: 14
    0
    I believe this is a new model "MT 883 Ka-501 CRI"
    http://www.mtu-online.com/mtu/products/engine-program/diesel-engines-for-wheeled
    -and-tracked-armored-vehicles / engines-for-heavy-vehicles / detail / product / 992 / cHas
    h/c36aac2d3635a236860829e0a37d2d22/

    It would be nice to know the motor resource.
    For AGT-1500 it is:
    - until overhaul 1800-2000 hours
    - after overhaul 1000 hours