Military Review

Awards for all who fought for the Germans

266
"... The Germans sent two machine gunners to take positions behind our backs, and at a considerable distance from each other ... I grinned sadly, remembering propaganda stories about the Soviet commissars holding the fighters at gunpoint"

- the memoirs of the officer of the Italian expeditionary corps Eugenio Corti, who fought on the Eastern Front

“Relations with Germans are bad”, “Germans treat us with contempt,” “they call offensive nicknames”, “mock”.

- from the letters of Italian, Hungarian and Romanian soldiers of the Second World War.


Awards for all who fought for the Germans

Soviet soldiers view the remaining unarmed "Iron Crosses" on the threshold of the Reich Chancellery, Berlin, spring 1945.


Where the gentle sun and the warm Mediterranean Sea merge into a picture of serene everyday life, the crash of German machine guns suddenly resounded. These are the soldiers of the Edelweiss division of the mountain rifle division shooting their former allies on the island of Kefalonia. They punctuate the Italians in a row for 8 people - and kill them at close range.

The “Massacre of the Acqui Division” became one of the largest mass shootings in stories - In just one week in September 1943, 5000 prisoners of Italian soldiers and officers were shot on the island.

“The Germans went around us, offering medical assistance to the wounded. When about 20 people crawled forward, a machine-gun volley killed them "

- from the memoirs of chaplain Romualdo Formato, one of the few who survived the massacre on the island of Kefalonia

The first to be shot was the commander of the Aqui division, a convinced fascist, General Antonio Gandin, who was awarded the Iron Cross for his exploits on the Eastern Front. Before his death, he threw a German award into the dirt in the hearts ...

No honors were given to the former allies - first they were fired from machine guns at them, then it became a pity for the calculating Germans to waste cartridges, and knives were used. The bodies of the killed officers were piled on rafts, taken into the sea and exploded along with the live Italian soldiers that were on them.


Memorial to the murdered Italians on the Greek island of Kefalonia.

Such fierce hatred towards their yesterday’s allies is simply explained: in September, 1943, Mussolini’s regime fell in Italy under the attacks of the Anglo-American forces, the Germans immediately occupied part of the country and disarmed the Italian army.

Alas, the former allies and loyal vassals of the Third Reich did not receive any gratitude or even a fraction of respect - mass executions of captured Italian soldiers occur everywhere: on the Greek islands of Kefalonia, Kos, in the Balkans, in Albania ... The entire Italian garrison of the city of Lviv was shot. On the territory of Poland, the Germans destroyed more than 20000 Italian soldiers.

Moor did his job. Moor can leave.

“In the morning the cars arrived and stopped along the camp road. Italians were hit with cars. They were ordered to fold weapon goats and step aside. Then they were driven by the back of the gorge of death and shot. There were officers among the soldiers. ”

- from the memories of prisoners of the Yanovsky concentration camp, which was near Lviv

Part two. Romanians.

The war in the view of these jackals looked like a robbery of the population in the occupied territories. The Romanian army turned out to be completely inefficient - they came only to plunder what was not burned or was not captured by the Germans, and at the same time to resolve their territorial issues at the expense of part of the land of Ukraine.

Not surprisingly, when the German army was firmly bogged down near Moscow, Japan declared war on Britain and the United States, and Great Britain, at the insistence of the USSR, declared war on Romania, Hungary and Finland, the dictator's nerves did not survive (still, came under the guise of plunder, but under such a "batch"), and he made a statement, poorly understandable from the point of view of logic:

“I am an ally of the Reich in the war against Russia. I am neutral in the conflict between Great Britain and Germany. I am on the side of the Americans against Japan. ”

- Ion Antonescu, December 7 1941 of the year

The Germans themselves also did not create illusions about the seriousness and fighting qualities of their "allies" and treated the Romanian soldiers as cattle: they never trusted them important sections of the front, put up "detachments" behind their backs, and in case of misfortune - Romanians ruthlessly started consumption.


Romanian and German officers at the crossing of the river. Rod, 1941 year



Romanian prisoners are a bit shocked by the conditions of the Eastern Front

“The Germans betrayed us. They took power over the Romanian troops and dispose of us as they wish. In the event of trouble, the Germans force the Romanians to substitute their heads for Russian bullets, and they flee. At first we retreated with the Germans. When the Russians overtook our columns, Part of the Romanian officers and soldiers tried to get into the trucks, but the Germans opened machine-gun fire. The Germans managed to leave by car, but we met many of them every day at the POW assembly point. ”

- from the revelations of the commanders of the 2 and 3 companies of the 12 battalion of the 3 Romanian mountain rifle division of the captains Lazorescu and Georgiou taken prisoner in Crimea in 1944

The third story. Ukrainian nationalists

“We have always cooperated with the Germans, we want to cooperate with the Germans, we still cooperate with the Germans, we will cooperate with you, and only in cooperation with Germany ...”

What does this nonsense mean? The head of the "declension of verbs" in a non-Russian textbook on the Russian language?

No, this is not a textbook, but the most terrible historical document - an explanatory note to the German authorities from the Ukrainian nationalist Yaroslav Stetsko, who proclaimed 30 on June 1941, in Lviv, was the formation of the Ukrainian Patriarchate Stepan Bandera. From now on, the Ukrainian Power along with Great Germany will begin to establish a new world order everywhere!


I consider Moscow to be the main enemy of Ukraine. I consider it expedient to transfer the German methods of extermination of the Jews to Ukraine (and further on with Stetsko’s own hand: excluding their assimilation). What a nice man!

Full of dog loyalty, loyalty and adherence to the ideas of fascism, the letter should have touched the stone hearts of the Teutonic knights. Stetsko and Bandera received the princely title and "label for reign"?

Here to both of them! (The characteristic gesture of three fingers).

The “Ukrainian Power” existed for exactly six days - as long as the Germans were concerned with more important issues. 9 July Stetsko arrested the Gestapo (Bandera was arrested a week earlier). Soon both clowns were in Sachsenhausen.


A memorial plaque in honor of the 50 anniversary of the proclamation of the Ukrainian State on the central square of Lviv, opened on June 30 of the year 1991

What did the fascists angered by their loyal supporters - the chairman of the government of the Ukrainian State, Yaroslav Stetsko, and the "leader of the Ukrainian people" Stepan Bandera? Why did the Germans so rapidly “bake” both of them to a concentration camp, refusing the seemingly advantageous offer of cooperation?
The answer is simple: the Germans were not going to cooperate with the Untermensch. From the "subhumans" was required only one thing - submission. Any kind of freethinking and attempts to realize oneself by an independent force were mercilessly crushed by a German boot.

Meister Brückner turned his head to Reiband and said in disgust in German:
- Tell him that, according to the powers of the Fuhrer, I appoint him as a burgomaster.
Then, Majster Brückner, without looking, groped the printed narrow bar of chocolate on the table, without looking, broke off several fused squares from it and silently stretched Statsenko.
“This is not a man, but an ideal,” Statsenko later told his wife.

- “Young Guard”, A. Fadeev



"Auxiliary nations" should know their place. A lot of idiots were fascinated by the prospect of “driving German cars and drinking Bavarian beer”. The only thing that the collaborators and traitors were wrong about was that the future German paradise was not meant for them. When the war ends, the "auxiliary nations" will be exterminated and destroyed just as it should have been with the opponents of Germany.


It is not clear what the supporters of this point of view are hoping for. If the “liberators” had broken through the front and occupied the Caucasus, they would have installed such a “Der Ordnung” in the mountains that General Yermolov himself would turn over in his grave.

Despite all the puppy loyalty of collaborators and their atrocities towards their compatriots (Katyn), the divisions recruited from the “racially inferior” never were placed on a par with the German units: they were forbidden to wear a double digger in the right buttonhole. There are statistics in many sources that more than half of the SS divisions consisted of soldiers of non-Aryan origin (Albanians, Belgians, French, Serbs, Balts, Ukrainians, Russian traitors, Cossacks and former White Guards). But this statement is not true. In contrast to the true Aryan SS divisions (for example, the famous SS-Panzer-Division "Totenkopf" - "Dead Head"), elite divisions formed from other nations had the designation "der SS" - "subhuman" in the service of the SS (for example , French 33. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS “Charlemagne” (französische Nr. 1).

- How did you, scoundrels, dare to wear a German uniform? - General Leclerc was brave before the soldiers of the SS SS Charlemagne taken prisoner.
“Just as you, the general, dared to wear an American,” was the laconic answer.

The prisoners were immediately shot by the order of an angry general.

In general, the French are at war unimportantly, but they are able to formulate their thoughts in a brilliant way. Not so long ago, at a reception in the French embassy, ​​the diplomat was asked a question: why are people in France so negatively towards “Vichists”? (The puppet French state that existed during the 1940-45 period). After all, formally supporters of Marshal Petain stopped the bloodshed and allowed to save the country from total looting and destruction: as a result of the Second World War, France got off with minimal losses.

The Frenchman flared up and said hurtly: "They destroyed the spirit of the nation."


If the Germans had won, we would all ride Mercedes. Here on these "Mercedes"

German troops were soiled in blood and smeared all their accomplices and allies with mud. The hour of reckoning came soon - the Germans independently sent many of their “loyal friends” to the scrap. Someone was shot, having fallen into the hands of his, now former, compatriots. Someone fell in battle, as the Estonian commando group "Erna", driven into the swamps and destroyed by the special forces of the NKVD.

The Cossacks from the Cossack Mill and the 15 Cossack Cavalry Corps who fought on the side of Nazi Germany won a special award. Understanding that the war was lost to smithereens, and their overlords in the form of the German swastika are now lying prone in the ruins of Berlin, the cunning Cossacks developed a rescue plan to escape retaliation into the British occupation zone in East Tyrol in order to “honorable” surrender to the British.

2 May 1945, the Cossacks began to cross the Alps, and by May 10 safely (except for the skirmishes with the Italian partisans) arrived in the vicinity of the town of Lienz. 18 May British units descended into the valley. The Cossacks surrendered all their weapons and were distributed to several POW camps in the vicinity of Lienz.

But it turned out that the Anglo-Saxons have their own specific ideas about honor and dignity. Nobody was going to hide obvious traitors.



On the morning of May 1, 1945, when the Cossacks gathered to build, the British suddenly appeared. The soldiers began to seize unarmed people and drive them into the lodged trucks. Those who tried to resist were shot on the spot. The rest were taken away in an unknown direction.

A few hours later, a mourning procession of trucks with traitors crossed the checkpoint at the border of the Soviet occupation zone.

The trial of the Cossack generals of the Wehrmacht took place in the walls of the Lefortovo prison behind closed doors from 15 to 16 in January of 1947. 16 January in 15: 15 judges retired for sentencing. In 19: 39 the verdict was announced:

“The Military Collegium of the USSR Supreme Court sentenced the generals Krasnov PN, Krasnov S.N., Shkuro SG, von Pannevitsa G. to the death penalty for leading the armed struggle against the Soviet Union through the groups they formed.”

On 20: 45 of the same day, the sentence was carried out.



According to the book "Opponents of Russia in the wars of the XX century (Evolution of the" image of the enemy "in the minds of the army and society)," the author E.S. Sinyavskaya.
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  1. FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 21 October 2013 08: 13
    36
    The Germans considered themselves the highest race, and the rest were to become their slaves, at best. So all Finland, Hungary and Japan are just temporary allies for Hitler. True Aryans, in principle, could feel nothing but aversion to the same racially inferior Japanese.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Petrol
      Petrol 21 October 2013 12: 04
      -15 qualifying.
      right now the same thing happens in the Middle East in the struggle for the Caspian ...... only the slogans have changed and the essence is the same
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 21 October 2013 14: 42
        +9
        Quote: Benzin
        right now the same thing is happening in the Middle East in the struggle for the Caspian ...

        belay And where is the Caspian?
        1. catapractic
          catapractic 21 October 2013 20: 26
          +2
          if only to write something - Caspian, Aral or Qatar with Saudi - study geography or justify your comments
      2. Beech
        Beech 21 October 2013 16: 12
        +2
        Where is the Caspian and where is the Middle East?
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. Yurban
        Yurban 24 October 2013 00: 49
        0
        You translate arrows.
    3. vahatak
      vahatak 21 October 2013 20: 33
      +5
      All the same, not the Germans, but the Nazis, and so everything is true.
      1. tomket
        tomket 22 October 2013 20: 44
        +1
        All the same, the Germans, since the ideas of Nazism arise there regularly, like the example of the Zionists. It seems that gas chambers are not being built, and all the same, everyone knows about their exclusivity. As well as with the Americans recently.
        1. vahatak
          vahatak 23 October 2013 12: 41
          -2
          You want to say that all Germans considered themselves the highest race and wanted to enslave everyone else? Let me remind you that the Nazis never received an absolute majority in the elections, and their elections are fair. Social democracy also arose in Germany and is still flourishing there. Let us call all Germans internationalists.
          Quote: tomket
          Nazi ideas arise there regularly

          Recently, ideas of Nazism have also arisen in Russia. We will draw conclusions about all the Russians?
          1. tomket
            tomket 23 October 2013 22: 02
            +4
            Russia did not start two world wars.
            1. vahatak
              vahatak 23 October 2013 23: 49
              -21 qualifying.
              In World War I, Germany stood up for Austria, and Russia - for Serbia. What did Germany start?
              Germany and the USSR began World War II together, attacking Poland by prior arrangement.
              1. Jarserge
                Jarserge 25 October 2013 14: 50
                +9
                You do not know the story ... Yes, I think so and do not want to know. The instigators of World War I were England, France and Germany. You confuse the reason with the reason and speak the propaganda cliches of the Cold War and they are stupid enough and are not supported by documents and are absolutely illogical. Russia was simply dragged from camp to camp, but England, as always, won. World War II is the entry into the big politics of the new global US player. It was this country that fed the finances of Adolf Aloisevich and not mythical German businessmen for a reason, and now the worst protected secret is financial flows before the Second World War. And by and large the war began with the attack of Germany and Poland on Czechoslovakia, then later the aggressors began to contradict. But the USSR simply survived and even brought its troops into Poland when the Polish government defected further than the lands that Poland had captured in the 20s, it didn’t enter
                1. vahatak
                  vahatak 26 October 2013 01: 46
                  -3
                  Many words and few facts. Logic is even less.
                  1. aleshka
                    aleshka 26 October 2013 06: 26
                    +2
                    But in your posts, everything directly sparks with LOGIC !!! Learn from the troll of the Jews ??? so they at least competently troll!
                    1. vahatak
                      vahatak 26 October 2013 13: 45
                      -2
                      if the Nazis and Germans are one and the same, then all Russians must be recorded in the Communists and ascribed to them everything that the Bolsheviks did. Some do not even notice that they are repeating the stupid speeches of the British and Americans, who called all the inhabitants of the USSR Russian and Communists at the same time.
                  2. zol1
                    zol1 26 October 2013 08: 55
                    0
                    And you think carefully, sometimes it is very useful for such deaf and blind!
                2. Ivan Sirko
                  Ivan Sirko 27 October 2013 12: 31
                  0
                  But the USSR simply survived and even brought its troops into Poland when the Polish government deserted further than the lands that Poland had captured in the 20s; no one entered the troops

                  Well, yes, Stalin is red and fluffy, but kind, and Hitler is red and velvet, but byaka. lol
              2. aleshka
                aleshka 26 October 2013 06: 22
                +1
                If the history textbook was sparkling, then at least read something! The Germans always lacked living space, unlike the Russians, so both world wars are their initiative! But Russia and then the USSR took forced retaliatory steps!
                1. vahatak
                  vahatak 26 October 2013 13: 49
                  -2
                  most Germans have always had enough living space, but not enough for any chauvinists of the whole world.
                  If you read something other than Soviet textbooks, you would know that there were no direct contradictions between Germany and Russia, and the Germans were always ready to divide the spheres of influence.
                  1. Vladimir73
                    Vladimir73 6 November 2013 20: 46
                    0
                    yeah, while it suits them laughing Since the time of Otto, they have been "sharing" spheres of influence with Russia! True, while they are "bugged" from other sides, but when everything is settled in the west, they are climbing to the east. hi
                  2. Alex
                    Alex 15 January 2014 20: 28
                    +2
                    Quote: vahatak
                    If you read something other than Soviet textbooks, you would know that there were no direct contradictions between Germany and Russia, and the Germans were always ready to divide the spheres of influence.
                    Something I don’t remember, that the Germans would have anything to do with Russia apart from the Russian lands. Or are you so, in the sense of virtual intentions?

                    Just do not about the division of the Commonwealth. Austria and Prussia conceived this whole murky catavasia, Catherine was not a stupid woman either, she took part in time, the countryman started to shake. Also by the way, populated for the most part by our own Slavs.
              3. Alex
                Alex 15 January 2014 20: 25
                +2
                Quote: vahatak
                In World War I, Germany stood up for Austria, and Russia - for Serbia. What did Germany start?
                Germany and the USSR began World War II together, attacking Poland by prior arrangement.
                Austria began the war with Serbia at the direct instigation of Germany, who knew perfectly the position of Russia and promised Austria its support against Russia. Where is the beginning of WWI?

                The USSR occupied the territory of Poland after the flight of its government without any international declarations and declarations. De jure, Polish statehood ceased after this, and de facto hostilities too. The USSR regained the territory annexed earlier by Poland. Where is the beginning of WWII?

                German militarism has almost always been a source of tension in Europe. Particularly, the appetites of Germany increased after Bismarck created it from Prussia and established the iron order, for many years determining the direction of its expansion - to world domination.
      2. domokl
        domokl 25 October 2013 14: 59
        +2
        Quote: vahatak
        All the same, not the Germans, but the Nazis, and so everything is true.

        Once upon a time, when this phrase was repeated to us. Fascists, Nazis, but not Germans, I put it roughly in a conversation with a German. Type, people are not to blame, fascists and Hitler are to blame. For that I received an answer_of an internationalist, an answer.German the people are to blame. Hitler is legally elected and supported by the whole people. So the whole people should have been responsible for all the atrocities.
        This was a revelation to me. But over time, I realized the correctness of such a point of view. Each city is worthy of the government that has it. And the people will have to answer for everything.
        1. il grand casino
          il grand casino 25 October 2013 15: 02
          0
          Quote: domokl
          Quote: vahatak
          All the same, not the Germans, but the Nazis, and so everything is true.

          Once upon a time, when this phrase was repeated to us. Fascists, Nazis, but not Germans, I put it roughly in a conversation with a German. Type, people are not to blame, fascists and Hitler are to blame. For that I received an answer_of an internationalist, an answer.German the people are to blame. Hitler is legally elected and supported by the whole people. So the whole people should have been responsible for all the atrocities.
          This was a revelation to me. But over time, I realized the correctness of such a point of view. Each city is worthy of the government that has it. And the people will have to answer for everything.

          It is more correct to say here - the people of Germany. My grandfather, a German, fought the whole war with the Nazis ... Also, after all, a German, albeit a Russian
        2. vahatak
          vahatak 26 October 2013 01: 50
          0
          Quote: domokl
          That was a revelation to me.

          Why revelation? You did not know that after the war in Germany a generation of masochists was grown up who asserted themselves through self-humiliation?
          And about the support of Hitler from the whole people and the victory in the elections, I wrote above that there was no majority, just his opponents were not organized.
          1. Vladimir73
            Vladimir73 6 November 2013 20: 49
            0
            lol do not make me laugh! otherwise the Reichstag would set fire to and blame the communists.
    4. Admiral 013
      Admiral 013 22 October 2013 05: 13
      +3
      This Hitler believed that they were supposedly true Aryans. He and the swastika of other nations spi.
    5. Zorro1955
      Zorro1955 22 October 2013 12: 41
      +4
      It is a pity that they just do not want to know about this in western Ukraine and the Baltic states.
    6. Alez
      Alez 22 October 2013 12: 56
      +4
      Dogs canine death. Those who betrayed once will betray the second time. The Germans understood this, as the need disappeared, destroyed the allies.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 22 October 2013 13: 13
        +1
        Are you sure that by the end of the war the Germans no longer needed allies?
    7. Director
      Director 26 October 2013 22: 37
      0
      One of the founders of the theory of blood and earth, the ideological basis of National Socialism, was the historian Hans Gunther. Later he fell out of favor due to the fact that, according to his racial studies, the Russian people are Aryan and their qualities are no less good than those of the "Nordic" Germans. Obsession with the pride of their belonging to the highest race and led the Nazis to defeat.
    8. Akatsubasa
      Akatsubasa 27 October 2013 09: 34
      0
      No matter how cynical it sounds, the whole point of the Second World War is that some descendants of the Indo-Aryans attacked other closer descendants with the claim that it was the Germans who were the most Ariest) In comparison with current Wahhabism, this is generally the limit of idealism)
      1. Netrocker
        Netrocker 27 October 2013 20: 39
        -2
        Indoarians ... bullshit is all of this! smile the usual bout of Eurocentrism of European theorists! There were not and there are no Indo-European peoples, this is just a theory of the egg-headed English - the 19th century. It was necessary to somehow justify their colonial claims, so to speak "the burden of a white man" ... And in general, first figure out who the ancient Persians called the Aryans - not at all themselves!
        1. vahatak
          vahatak 28 October 2013 10: 39
          +1
          Indo-Europeans are called speakers of certain languages, and linguistics is a very exact science. Most researchers on this topic in the 19th century. were not English, but Germans. And the ancient Persians called the Aryans of all Iranians in opposition to the Anarians - not Iranians.
  2. romul
    romul 21 October 2013 08: 24
    34
    Dog canine death.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 21 October 2013 18: 56
      +8
      No wonder it was said, "Everyone will be rewarded according to his deeds."
      True, some Nazi accomplices are now respected and respected in their own Estonia and other limotrophies. But I still want to believe that a warm place has been prepared for them. am
      1. VARCHUN
        VARCHUN 23 October 2013 10: 44
        0
        Yes, the Baltic states, it’s understandable that they’re always ready to put a knife in the back on occasion. But how about Nazi holidays are open there at the expense of America and no one bothers to close them not with the FBI and the NB, because everywhere they are cunning and are waiting for the moment.
    2. Alex toll
      Alex toll 22 October 2013 16: 57
      +1
      Are you in Ukraine? Why is there so much hatred towards the Russians? What happened to the fraternal people?
      1. tomket
        tomket 22 October 2013 20: 47
        +3
        the only justification for the existence of Ukraine separately from Russia is precisely the idea of ​​total Russophobia.
      2. VARCHUN
        VARCHUN 23 October 2013 10: 48
        +2
        If you don’t know don’t write, don’t disgrace yourself, have you been to Ukraine? They don’t kill you in Russia from Kharkiv Kharkiv, Donetsk, Lugansk, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporizhzhya is an area where no one will see that you are from Russia, maybe a number of the center, again I say if you do not know do not write and do not disgrace. I can also say for Russia.
        1. Alex toll
          Alex toll 23 October 2013 14: 43
          0
          And what do you say if Russophobia is not an option!? I know many and work with Ukrainians - there were no problems at all and there were all kinds of situations, but of course the Ukrainian is in terms of population. my 10 people are not particularly worth in the analytics of this issue ......
        2. tomket
          tomket 23 October 2013 22: 09
          +1
          And who said that I'm talking about Russophobic relations between Ukrainians, especially in the Lugansk region. to the Russians? Once mistakenly drove into the Lugansk region. then for a long time I wondered why there Pepsi costs 8 rubles. Like the prices of these have long been gone. It turned out to be in hryvnias. In Lviv, too, they don’t seem to spit in the back, nevertheless, all politics towards Russia, especially lately built on Russophobia. statements about the purchase of alternative gas in Germany look especially ridiculous, let the gas be bought by Gazprom will buy gas, but don’t pay these trifles, well, you understand)))
  3. aszzz888
    aszzz888 21 October 2013 08: 45
    36
    “We have always cooperated with the Germans, we want to cooperate with the Germans, we still cooperate with the Germans, we will cooperate with you, and only in cooperation with Germany ...”


    More recently, Lviv was shown on TV. All the unfinished and new nations, launched a procession in honor of some anniversary. The police are zero emotions. But when the red flags were hung out in the house above the floors, and the International was turned on, the police instantly knocked out the doors, tore off the flags. These people, you see, interfered with the calm procession of the Nazis.
    Is it true that something and someone resembles a past story?
    1. Santa Fe
      21 October 2013 10: 19
      +7
      Hai live independent Ukraine!
      1. MG42
        MG42 21 October 2013 18: 02
        +8
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Hai live independent Ukraine!

        Here is a different angle = this is the shooting of a Russian filmDeath Match> in Kharkov lol Starring Bezrukov and Boyarskaya

        Behind the scenes from filming in Kharkov

        Ukromenty and soldiers of the Wehrmacht




        This is a view of Rosa Luxemburg Square there below ..
        1. MG42
          MG42 21 October 2013 18: 49
          +7
          The budget of the film is ten million dollars. The plot is based on the “death match” of 1942, when Ukrainian football players played against Wehrmacht soldiers on a soccer field in Kiev
          Why a lot of shots from Kharkov? nature is small, many modern buildings fall into the frame
      2. VARCHUN
        VARCHUN 23 October 2013 10: 56
        -2
        You probably think that coolly picked up a slogan for your photo, You would now see what is happening in your homeland. And you could not put this shit.
    2. Gomunkul
      Gomunkul 21 October 2013 10: 30
      24
      More recently, Lviv was shown on TV. All the underelicated and new Nazis started a procession in honor of some of their anniversaries.
      It resembles the behavior of "mongrels", when one or two and a strong man in front of them, wag their tail and lower their eyes, try to suck up, but as soon as they stray into a decent flock, they immediately begin to feel themselves "descendants of real wolves." hi
      Article plus.
      1. smirnov
        smirnov 21 October 2013 12: 54
        +7
        I did not expect such an article from the Author good Accustomed to the marine focus of his materials, the article is a fat plus!
        1. smile
          smile 21 October 2013 15: 26
          +6
          smirnov
          The author, a man is extremely versatile, see his articles on Space, you will be read out. And what is his style — he wouldn’t have written articles on the Internet — to write books. Although, no, he will start writing books, he will run away from the site. And I personally disagree with that! :)))
    3. ikrut
      ikrut 21 October 2013 12: 55
      24
      Quote: aszzz888
      More recently, Lviv was shown on TV. All the unfinished and new nations, launched a procession in honor of some anniversary. The police are zero emotions. But when the red flags were hung out in the house above the floors, and the International was turned on, the police instantly knocked out the doors, tore off the flags. These people, you see, interfered with the calm procession of the Nazis.
      Is it true that something and someone resembles a past story?

      The situation with the flags was not in Lvov (everything has long been clear there), but in Kiev. It was there that the flags were hung. But the militia could not knock down the door, so the action was successful, and the Victory flag hung all the time while these underdogs marched along Khreshchatyk. And it's a shame for Kiev. The "mother of Russian cities" is turning into a Bandera province.
      1. VARCHUN
        VARCHUN 23 October 2013 11: 01
        +2
        So even if they were ashamed of Kiev, they would not have been allowed to do this in Donetsk, Kharkov and other cities.
    4. wow
      wow 21 October 2013 13: 31
      15
      it is! One should not expect from these "Untermenshes" the manifestation of such feelings as patriotism, love for the Motherland, honor and courage in the fight against the invaders. This is a diagnosis! Banderstadt should be treated with dust sprayed from aircraft. And pour it (dust) as thick as possible !!!
    5. gosha1970
      gosha1970 21 October 2013 14: 22
      +8
      And there’s a video in YouTube: the old ones from Wafen-ss march across Riga, and a man sits with an accordion, plays the Farewell of the Slavyanka. It’s ridiculous.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 21 October 2013 14: 35
        13
        Quote: gosha1970
        And there’s a video in YouTube: the old ones from Wafen-ss march across Riga, and a man sits with an accordion, plays the Farewell of the Slavyanka. It’s ridiculous.

        Not funny - sad. It’s better for these nedoarians to spin a couple of disks from the DP machine gun - from such music they will immediately start dancing.
    6. Breeze59
      Breeze59 21 October 2013 23: 02
      +6
      The procession was in Kiev. On the feast of the Protection of the Mother of God. On this day, Bandera's people celebrate the day of the UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army). On the eighth floor, the guys hung out the red flags of Victory and sounded "Get up, a huge country." loudspeakers. About the police there was a conversation. But on TV I did not observe the storming of the apartment. Although, everything is possible.
    7. Breeze59
      Breeze59 21 October 2013 23: 30
      +1
      The procession was in Kiev. On the feast of the Protection of the Mother of God. On this day, Bandera's people celebrate the day of the UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army). On the eighth floor, the guys hung out the red flags of Victory and sounded "Get up, a huge country." loudspeakers. About the police there was a conversation. But on TV I did not observe the storming of the apartment. Although, everything is possible.
  4. Yashka Gorobets
    Yashka Gorobets 21 October 2013 08: 50
    11
    It’s a pity Bender’s chances were not shot.
    1. Starfish
      Starfish 21 October 2013 10: 35
      17
      It’s a pity Bender’s chances were not shot.

      it’s not at all a pity if there would have been another instead. and so he would have generally been declared saints and an anti-fascist.
      our intelligence services put out a bandera and that's right
    2. ikrut
      ikrut 21 October 2013 13: 01
      +9
      Quote: Yashka Gorobets
      It’s a pity Bender’s chances were not shot.

      This undersized man finished off his own, Ukrainian. Stashinsky. And then he, according to the "good old tradition," the lackeys betrayed the "customers" ... I never cease to be surprised at the nature of these ... From Mazepa to the present. The principle of their life: "To betray in time is to foresee" (c)
      1. Lantau
        Lantau 21 October 2013 14: 17
        +1
        The principle of their life: "To betray in time is to foresee" (c)

        In their language, this is called a business approach.
      2. VARCHUN
        VARCHUN 23 October 2013 11: 18
        0
        So Mazepa was the favorite of Peter 1, how could he not have seen, moreover, there are a lot of such examples. Vlasov is Stalin's favorite, after 2 Shock hit a bottle of toyst in the ring, Stalin deprived toyst, he scored the Volkhov front altogether with contentment. their branded "Vlasovites" is considered a betrayal in relation to their people.
        1. Alex
          Alex 15 January 2014 20: 45
          +2
          Quote: Varchun
          So Mazepa was the favorite of Peter 1 as he did not overlook
          Was not. Peter respected Mazepa and there was a reason, he believed in his oath, but he wanted to punish him for betrayal, but it didn’t work. By the way, Pavel Polubotka also respected, but because of Mazepa he no longer believed in elected hetmans.

          Vlasov is Stalin’s favorite,
          Another nonsense. Stalin knew Vlasov (well, it would have been!), Considered a stupid general (Andrey Andreyevich knew how to dodge), but this is in the wake of the Moscow battle, then many fell into favor, but not everyone could resist.
    3. VARCHUN
      VARCHUN 23 October 2013 11: 12
      +4
      Yes, and here it is, he got his own, now the mayor of Sadovaya is sitting in Nevada, a pure neo-fascist, and our president is not doing anything. That's a shame. The Jew Tyagnibok crawls into power about the moneybags who were paid by the same Jews and of course the states and not who He doesn’t do it. And the people of Ukraine, and most of them are not like that, I completely assure you and no one wants to quarrel with Russia. And there’s no one in Russia who doesn’t fight skinheads, but they follow the Nazi system.
  5. rauffg
    rauffg 21 October 2013 08: 54
    32
    and after all there will be the same now, traitors, if, God forbid, war ...
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 21 October 2013 09: 11
      38
      If then found. Now I suspect there will be a lot of them ...
      1. Starfish
        Starfish 21 October 2013 10: 36
        13
        like a squeak with her fagot companions, and the party "svoboda"
        1. Prometheus
          Prometheus 21 October 2013 11: 55
          11
          If you find it, that's right. But retaliation always overtakes such. From us or from their owners.
          1. Klibanophoros
            Klibanophoros 21 October 2013 16: 06
            21
            I do not agree. Unfortunately, most Nazi criminals fled from deserved revenge in the Western countries and Latin America. And some, like General Adolf Heusinger, who was responsible for the Koryukov massacre, held senior positions in NATO.
            However, retaliation does not always mean physical elimination. Just look at what Europe is now. What does the 90-year-old SS sheep feel when watching a Berlin gay parade of 700 snouts on TV? To the closed quarters of Muslims throughout Europe? Probably seeing this before death is no less torture than being in prison when the whole world surrounding you becomes a prison.
            1. matross
              matross 21 October 2013 18: 01
              +5
              Quote: Klibanophoros
              What does the 90-year-old SS-sheep feel when watching the Berlin gay pride in 700 thousands of snouts on TV? To the closed quarters of Muslims throughout Europe?

              As it should be - it feels defeated ...
            2. Corsair
              Corsair 22 October 2013 05: 44
              0
              Quote: Klibanophoros
              I do not agree.

              Ay, great comment! There would have been a possibility, I would have "plus" several times ...
            3. VARCHUN
              VARCHUN 23 October 2013 11: 27
              +2
              American firms, even when America entered the Second World War, actively collaborated with the Nazis, the French "RENAULT", clothing "HUGO BOSS" all know this and that, no one is not what. The Americans took to their work all German engineers who had at least some weight .And before that they created the FAU and bombed Angliyu.Nu, and what else is there to say !!!!!!
              1. Khan
                Khan 24 October 2013 15: 51
                +1
                And ours did not cooperate Werner Gruner, Schmeiser and the creators of the Fau (except the most important) worked in the USSR. Everyone used the experience and achievements of German scientists. Since at that time they were ahead of many countries in technical development.
        2. Basarev
          Basarev 21 October 2013 20: 31
          +2
          They have no "debt"
    2. VARCHUN
      VARCHUN 23 October 2013 11: 20
      +2
      I completely agree with you. And you know why, because the difference between the people and the hundred alegarchs is huge. The authorities are not doing anything to raise patriotism. Sale has already come into use.
    3. rodevaan
      rodevaan 24 October 2013 12: 18
      +3
      Quote: rauffg
      and after all there will be the same now, traitors, if, God forbid, war ...



      - Alas, I have to agree. Unfortunately, there are. But what to go far - on this site there are also such, and there are plenty of them. One out, (we will not point a finger, because here the old-timers know everything well) shields all the fascist evil spirits, the other quotes everything from the Rezunov-Sokolovskie lampoons on our army, the third believes that it is better to lie down under the pin-dash than to live as we live now. Enough, in general, fossils in our nation. For many, the cult of money and crawling on all fours in front of a stupid zapadoid is a lot of dreams ... Brain swotting-bombing of the 90s will make themselves felt. Stupid Americanism, implanted by force and every day on zombies, in the cinema, on billboards - for 30 years - from the late 80s to this day, can not just disappear like this. There are many notorious bastards in the government who see Russia's path only in blindly following the West. These * udaks, sitting at the top, allow themselves to call our people a term invented in the West - "slaves", with "slave" manners, not understanding only one essence - that only they themselves are the slaves of their pro-Western complexes, and the people have always spit Zapadoidov and his pro-Western government and beat all foreign nits - super-subhumans in the tail and in the mane, until the club broke.
      One thing pleases, - the people’s enlightenment began to come, - I see that many people already just openly spit on all the anti-Russian and natirossi nonsense sweeping from all sides.
  6. Mr. Zagi
    Mr. Zagi 21 October 2013 08: 59
    15
    That would be all this information on the first channels of the countries of the Baltic region.
    1. Eternal demobilization
      Eternal demobilization 21 October 2013 12: 32
      +8
      What do you mean ... belay They will immediately find a million proofs, they say everything is fabricated, and the pictures are mounted))). If veterans of the Great Patriotic War are judged there, and their traitors, those who now parade, were recorded as heroes, then what kind of television to talk about.
    2. smile
      smile 21 October 2013 15: 31
      +1
      Mr. Zagi
      Yes, if there the author will be imprisoned for a similar article for a year and a half, then what kind of television can we talk about?
  7. Kavtorang
    Kavtorang 21 October 2013 09: 03
    +1
    Quote: rauffg
    and after all there will be the same now, traitors, if, God forbid, war ...

    rauffg,
    What kind of folk art is this - skillful hands on the attached photo? Enlighten, please. I have never seen such a thing in my life. recourse
    1. rauffg
      rauffg 21 October 2013 09: 29
      +8
      typed on Yandex in pictures "collaborator", so this cocoa got out.
      1. Kavtorang
        Kavtorang 21 October 2013 09: 41
        +5
        Ugh, an abomination! Thank you for your work.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 October 2013 10: 04
      12
      Kavtorang, these are the stripes of servicemen of the Ost-battalions (Wehrmacht units from among Soviet citizens, mainly from prisoners of war). the top three refer to "Russian" units, "Kuban" and "Terek" - to the Cossacks, "Idel-Ural" - to the Volga Turks (Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvash). there were other stripes for other subdivisions ("Turkestan", "Georgia", "Armenia", "Azerbaijan", "Bergman", etc.)
      in the photo - remodels, essno. they are sold to military collectors and reenactors.
      1. Kavtorang
        Kavtorang 21 October 2013 10: 18
        +5
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Kavtorang, these are the stripes of servicemen of the Ost-battalions (Wehrmacht units from among Soviet citizens, mainly from prisoners of war). the top three refer to "Russian" units, "Kuban" and "Terek" - to the Cossacks, "Idel-Ural" - to the Volga Turks (Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvash). there were other stripes for other subdivisions ("Turkestan", "Georgia", "Armenia", "Azerbaijan", "Bergman", etc.)
        in the photo - remodels, essno. they are sold to military collectors and reenactors.

        Thank you, enlightened !!!
        This is not a joke - this is a compliment!
      2. Kavtorang
        Kavtorang 21 October 2013 14: 47
        +3
        From me "+" for the encyclopedic information. I would not have guessed that so many uh ... well, let's just say - there were freaks.
  8. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 21 October 2013 09: 33
    22
    After the war, the state security had something incomplete, what kind of grandfathers are marching now in the Baltic States or in the Ukraine? Why didn't they hang out on the gallows? Okay, there are the Baltic States or Ukraine, they might want to "independence" they can still be somehow understood (difficult but possible) , but all sorts of ROA or Cossacks or other Russian traitors simply cause fierce hatred.
    1. peter_shchurov
      peter_shchurov 21 October 2013 13: 36
      +3
      Quote: Standard Oil
      but all sorts of ROA or Cossacks or other Russian traitors cause just fierce hatred.


      Well, why, they put monuments in their place for you, and everything is in order, no one will blather, it’s not paid, for example, a monument to P.N. Krasnov in the village of Elanskaya.
      And if only the word who said ..
      1. smile
        smile 21 October 2013 15: 36
        +2
        peter_shchurov
        That's because ... eprst ... survived ... some nonsense followed in the footsteps of Bandera ... no words ... and to us new trends crawled-obviously the work of those liberal anti-Stalinists who cry about the bitter fate of the Cossacks and bad Bolsheviks ...: (((
        1. peter_shchurov
          peter_shchurov 21 October 2013 18: 25
          -12 qualifying.
          Quote: smile
          about the bitter fate of the Cossacks and the bad Bolsheviks ...: (((


          But this is you to me, who comes from an old Cossack family from Kamensk-Shakhtinsky \ Veshenskaya, so please don’t ride on my ears. I much more believe the stories of my grandfather and great-grandfather about the Civil-Collectivization-Patriotic than communist historians.
          I remember the stories of my great-grandfather, he died in 1994, being 95 years old and until the end of his life he had a solid memory, and my grandfather too.
          1. smile
            smile 21 October 2013 20: 35
            +6
            peter_shchurov
            I hope your grandfather and great-grandfather did not forget to tell you that half of the Cossacks went for the Reds ... just like more than half of the General Staff of the Republic of Ingushetia and almost half of the officer corps of the Republic of Ingushetia? I hope in relation to SS Krasnov, who selflessly put the Russian people on the altar of self-sacrifice, you don’t have any tears? Or Goebbels successors you believe more. than the bad Bolsheviks who saved the country both in 17 and in the Second World War?
            1. peter_shchurov
              peter_shchurov 21 October 2013 22: 41
              -6
              Quote: smile
              I hope your grandfather and great-grandfather did not forget to tell you that half of the Cossacks went for the Reds ... just like more than half of the General Staff of the Republic of Ingushetia and almost half of the officer corps of the Republic of Ingushetia?

              "Quiet Don", believe me, is well familiar to me. And let's, about "almost half of the RI officer corps?" look at things more adequately.
              Quote: smile
              I hope in relation to SS Krasnov, who selflessly put the Russian people on the altar of self-sacrifice, you don’t have any tears?

              not observed. Moreover, he gave me very good. a distant relative - something like a "second cousin great-great-grandfather" - the grandfather told, saying that he himself, naturally, did not advertise it.

              This fact doesn’t cause pride or annoyance, they don’t choose relatives. Well, the fact that P. Krasnov acted with good intentions, but, naturally, does not add points to him in collaboration with the worst enemy of the Slavs. One of the most respected figures of the White Movement-P. I. Denikin flatly refused to cooperate with the Nazis.

              Well, about the communal filth ... - this issue for me has long been resolved and is not subject to discussion. However, these events are well described in the same "Quiet Don" in that part of the novel, which deals with the goat uprising, raised by G. Melekhov.
              For what, as they say, fought ...

              Yes and
              "saved the country in the 17th"
              - Well, from whom, let me know ???
              Well, if in 1941, somehow with a creak, "pulling a contraceptive on the globe," you can somehow admit it with a stretch, but in 1917 ???
              1. uyrii67
                uyrii67 21 October 2013 23: 11
                +4
                And for some reason Don did not rise against the Owls. authorities when the chances reached. By the way, how many Peter, not Peter?
                1. peter_shchurov
                  peter_shchurov 21 October 2013 23: 24
                  -5
                  Quote: uyrii67
                  And for some reason Don did not rise against the Owls. authorities when the chances reached.

                  By that time, a lot had been knocked out during the dying / collectivization.
                  but in general, if it's so interesting, just google "COSSACKS IN THE SERVICE IN THE VERMACHT"
                  Quote: uyrii67
                  By the way, how many Peter, not Peter?

                  Out of habit, so on many logins from other sites.
                  the meaning of the name does not change.
                2. tomket
                  tomket 22 October 2013 21: 01
                  +3
                  Actually, it turns out that the Cossacks who were against the Soviet regime, they lived in the villages of Kazanka, Meshkovskaya Veshki, the Cossacks who lived closer to the Monastery and there in the direction of Boguchar, together with the 40 division, defeated those who raised the uprising, so it was inappropriately to write down all Cossacks as traitors , even in the civilian muzzle beat the traitors.
                  1. Alex
                    Alex 16 January 2014 20: 36
                    +2
                    Quote: tomket
                    inappropriately all Cossacks are written down as traitors
                    Budyonny, for example, also from the Cossacks.
              2. REZMovec
                REZMovec 21 October 2013 23: 16
                +3
                Cossacks have never been with the people - this is a security organization of the kings, in case of a riot. No more, no less. Few Soviet power went through you ...
                1. Deusex25
                  Deusex25 25 October 2013 14: 15
                  +2
                  Cossacks are free and fearless people who do not bow their heads before the rulers (be it the king himself).
                  The word "Cossack" comes from the Turkic, and means - a free person, however, like the word "Kazakh" ("Kazakh").
                  1. Alex
                    Alex 16 January 2014 20: 44
                    +2
                    Quote: Deusex25
                    Cossacks are free and fearless people who do not bow their heads before the rulers (be it the king himself).
                    What are you? It turns out that they themselves went to war, solely out of enthusiasm. And compulsory military service for the young is an absolutely independent fiery desire.

                    Do not la la. The Cossacks were chain dogs of tsarism, faithfully serving him for their estate privileges. Another thing is that the Cossacks, as well as any other social group, also had their own characteristics. There were poor among them, there were fists, and there were world-eaters. And when the revolution came, each responded in his own way: who went for the Reds, who remained loyal to the tsar-father (or rather, his liberties and way of life).
              3. smile
                smile 22 October 2013 00: 24
                +4
                peter_shchurov
                1. I am adequate — a little more than half of the General Staff, and a little less than half of the entire officer corps of the Republic of Ingushetia — looked in numbers, not percent. I don’t remember more precisely. I’ll dig it out if necessary tomorrow. By the way. it must also be taken into account that 20% of the post generally evaded a fight. but for you. see this revelation ... yes. Of course, the Bolsheviks did not particularly disseminate this for ideological reasons, their opponents are also shy. That's the result of these. how are you....:)))

                2. With the middle of your comment I agree, accepted. It is very good that you have such famous ancestors and you remember them.

                3.with the ending .... tired of, of course, writing the same thing for the tenth time, but I’ll write, just ask.
                in February, RI was destroyed. Temporary destroyed the army, self-government, economy.
                The country was blazing with might and main peasant war. gradually turned into a civilian, the Kornilov rebellion laid the foundation. More truly. Kornilov’s attempt to save Russia, sweeping the time.
                And the Bolsheviks took power in October, like a drunken woman under a fence. and then they had to fight for a single and indivisible with the whole world-heterogeneous white movements supported by different sponsors, each of whom tried to grab Russian territory for themselves. The Bolsheviks defended so many territories of Russia. how much their strength was enough.
                The Entente and Germany vied with each other to tear the country to pieces and make limitrophes. White knights actually fought for the interests of the Entente. And the Bolsheviks, the influence in Russia until the summer was negligible (they slept in February in Switzerland) were forced to fight off the interventionists and Poles and other things ... a special influx of Russian officers in the Red Army fell precisely on the war with the Poles, with whom Yudenich also collaborated (as and with Russophobe Mannerheim) and Wrangel (who was thinking about how to go to Poland by sea and help ... you are my god .. POLES!), etc. etc. examples, the sea ...
                I am too lazy to write further, but believe me, I can justify everything that has been said, down to the text of the relevant orders.
                1. peter_shchurov
                  peter_shchurov 22 October 2013 00: 55
                  -5
                  Quote: smile
                  The Bolsheviks defended so many territories of Russia. how much their strength was enough.

                  Having laid the foundation for a disgusting experiment over the peoples of the Russian Empire.
                  So they brought out "homo_sovetikus" for 74 years of reign.

                  I just don’t see the point in the details of the meaning.

                  The Nazis also managed to powder the brains of the Germans in 1933, but how it all ended for them ...
                  1. Glory333
                    Glory333 22 October 2013 01: 31
                    +4
                    Yeah, as a result of this "disgusting" experiment, Russia has turned from a backward agrarian country into a superpower. Don't confuse the really scary pages of the civil war with the prosperity of the 70s and 80s.
                    1. peter_shchurov
                      peter_shchurov 22 October 2013 17: 57
                      -2
                      Quote: Glory333
                      prosperity of the 70-80s.


                      Yeah, he laughed.
                      No, well, "who is the mare's bride" (s), who will live in Khrushchev's klopovniki and ride for 25 years on a tin "kopeck" for happiness, buying American hippie pants from blackmail for 120re.
                      1. VARCHUN
                        VARCHUN 23 October 2013 11: 44
                        +3
                        And tell me what’s being done now, your racks are going for the youth lf & Ds created a good domestic car lf & Z Khrushchev I don’t like it, but you have to shoot him up for the battle of Stalingrad, but at least something was being done and the country's potential was growing, and now there’s one decline and chatter .
                  2. smile
                    smile 22 October 2013 03: 15
                    +8
                    peter_shchurov
                    I do not understand .. and who created these Nazis? Even Churchill's son took part in Comrade Hitler's campaign events. Want to prove it? But then you admit here that you have to deal with your "revelations", okay? :)))

                    Take an interest, at the same time, who is Hanfstaengl, what role did he play in the formation of Hitler, and who did he work with then under Roosevelt ... :)))

                    So homo got out ... just homo ... a dream of reason gives birth to monsters ... and anti-advisers who are ready to sell their country to anyone, just to us .. to those who stretched the country ...... excuse me, but I can’t name you in another way.
                    1. Ruslan67
                      Ruslan67 22 October 2013 03: 21
                      +4
                      Hello toothy drinks
                      Quote: smile
                      But then you admit here that you have to deal with your "revelations", okay? :)))

                      They will never admit to anything request Otherwise, their life will consist of only bad-smelling confessions wassat
                      1. smile
                        smile 22 October 2013 03: 47
                        +3
                        Ruslan67
                        Hello clawed! :)))
                        Well, yes, you're right ... if you were wrong, with such and such dimensions ... :))) And yes, their whole life, and their confessions, and they themselves ... that ... smelling bad. ... the quirks of nature. :)))
                      2. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 22 October 2013 03: 54
                        +2
                        Quote: smile
                        and they themselves ... that ... smelling bad .... oddities of nature. :)))

                        How do you tolerate them what I would say it’s shit, and in Africa it’s moderators then they sleep wassat surely what some belay laughing
                      3. smile
                        smile 22 October 2013 05: 14
                        +4
                        Ruslan67
                        Well, yes, shit, it’s shit ... so some people don’t sleep, I think they never .... and they’ll do it right :))) and if they sleep, then later, they wake up and painfully fight with a stick in the pope for rudeness .... :))) here you will inevitably become tolerant ... and if only you knew how I can swear ... (I write rolling my eyes) probably even the moderators would not touch .... out of respect for art (well , you will not praise yourself, all day long as a justification ... you go):)))) ...
                      4. Corsair
                        Corsair 22 October 2013 05: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: smile
                        .so some do not sleep zhezh, in my opinion never .... and rightly so :)))

                        And I see you can’t sleep wink
                        Greetings! If you feel the strength in yourself, I could keep you company in the discussion of ...
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                      6. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 22 October 2013 19: 54
                        +4
                        Quote: peter_shchurov
                        I was amused to see how you, sorry, poop bricks)

                        Yes you turn out to be a downhill hunter belay Not expected request Sorry I do not remember how it is in English request
                        Quote: peter_shchurov
                        when the dog has nothing to do, it licks its seed appendages "

                        Firstly, to the cat, and secondly, with your rating, to be afraid of the word egg is a bad manners and not horseradish negative
                        Quote: peter_shchurov
                        These are the average dull Sofcophagi, be healthy))

                        Quote: peter_shchurov
                        however, what else is difficult to expect from you, everything is quite predictable

                        You know what Adin Adiyot already told me this request Ask the admins a list of those who ran into me amI am a very calm person and am ready to discuss any topic BUT! One who goes personal fool very quickly turns up in the bathhouse Not to be confused with emergency
                      7. peter_shchurov
                        peter_shchurov 23 October 2013 08: 51
                        -1
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Ask the admins for a list of those who hit me. I am a very calm person and am ready to discuss any topic BUT! Anyone who turns to a person very quickly finds himself in a bathhouse Not to be confused with emergency situations


                        Yes, dear, the eco caught you ... did not expect such a detailed analysis of your comment, with such an abundance of idiotic smiles and threats at the end))
                  3. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 22 October 2013 19: 57
                    +3
                    Quote: smile
                    and if only you knew how I can use foul language ... (I write rolling my eyes) probably even the moderators would not have touched.

                    Have a good laugh? fellow Maybe even untouched for 2-3 hours wassat
                  4. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 22 October 2013 20: 10
                    +1
                    Hi Ruslan, I’m watching you have fun laughing
                  5. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 22 October 2013 20: 16
                    +3
                    Quote: Alex 241
                    I’m looking at you here

                    We have ? And you ran past a pancake wassat Hi Sasha drinks For a long time I did not drive trolls like lousy in a bath am Insolent in the snag negative
                  6. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 22 October 2013 20: 18
                    +1
                    Quote: Ruslan67
                    ran past
                    Flying low. laughing I see you are "having fun" drinks
                  7. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 22 October 2013 20: 24
                    +2
                    Quote: Alex 241
                    I see you are "having fun"

                    Well, I would not call it work either what Only this forum has long turned into a platform for ideological war to destroy am I have to comply with the declared characteristics bully
                  8. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 22 October 2013 20: 27
                    +1
                    Yes, my friend, a year ago everything was different.
                  9. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 22 October 2013 20: 34
                    +1
                    Quote: Alex 241
                    a year ago, everything was different.

                    A year ago there was a selfless srach interesting only to its participants. And now it has grown and .. Then you know yourself, we or they request
              4. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 22 October 2013 20: 25
                +1
                Quote: Alex 241
                Flying low.

                Fair wind and flag ... laughing
  9. Fitter65
    Fitter65 22 October 2013 05: 27
    +2
    Quote: smile
    and they themselves ... that ... smelling bad .... oddities of nature. :)

    Sorry, but I don’t agree with you. They don’t smell, they FAT! And the rest I agree completely.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • VARCHUN
    VARCHUN 23 October 2013 11: 38
    0
    Do not compare the Bolsheviks of the Civil and the Bolsheviks of the Second World War, these are two different things. People who did not even join the party, but simply fought for their Motherland. Well, for Lenin, Stalin, or even for some of them, but for the Motherland. And I will also say not when the Bolsheviks did not reckoned with human lives, Simply by saying "HATS THROWNED" The Great Patriotic War showed hundreds of such examples.
  • REZMovec
    REZMovec 21 October 2013 23: 11
    +3
    Was it not your Cossacks from Kamensk-Shakhtinsk that they caught and executed the "Young Guard" in Krasnodon?
    1. peter_shchurov
      peter_shchurov 21 October 2013 23: 21
      -1
      German field gendarmerie + policemen.

      No, well, Fadeev's propaganda was certainly needed at that moment and it was written with talent, but at least you don’t make people laugh when you talk about its "historical authenticity."
      I myself am from the Lugansk region. I have also been to Krasnodon, at least to whom of. Do not tell the version, they will laugh.
      1. tomket
        tomket 22 October 2013 21: 04
        0
        do you often visit Millerovo?
  • tomket
    tomket 22 October 2013 20: 56
    0
    Bogucharsky Cossacks chopped your Veshensky niche by the way, by the way, Veshinski’s often malicious and vindictive ones turned out to be tales that even now they don’t give water to the Bogucharsky in Veshki, he often went there for work, his friends were all curious when they marked me there)))
    1. peter_shchurov
      peter_shchurov 23 October 2013 09: 03
      0
      Quote: tomket
      do you often visit Millerovo?

      when I go to relatives, just through it.
      In general, I rarely visit the Russian Federation.
      Quote: tomket
      there are stories that even now the rich woman in Veshki will not be served water

      Well, such a bytovuha is not at all interesting)))
  • uyrii67
    uyrii67 21 October 2013 23: 03
    +4
    And the Vlasov Museum in Podolsk. Shame on us And someone didn’t set fire !!! It is interesting whether there is a monument or museum in Podolsk cadets in Podolsk ?!
    1. smile
      smile 22 October 2013 00: 37
      +1
      uyrii67
      That's for sure? If this is true, then we must respond, and tough, because if we allow this at home, then, damn it, the price is worthless to us.
      1. peter_shchurov
        peter_shchurov 22 October 2013 00: 51
        -5
        Quote: smile
        - if we allow such a thing at home, then, damn it, we are worthless.

        Woke up? Did you see a log in your eye? Well, well ..
        1. smile
          smile 22 October 2013 03: 22
          +1
          peter_shchurov
          Well, in comparison with other general human beings, we are still completely nothing, we really have a mote, unlike your logs ... and about your petty gloating ... where to go, preferably in a mountainous and wooded area, I hope it’s clear to you Yes? Well go-the pipe is calling! And do not waste your breath on breaking - this slows down the movement on the specified route ...
          1. peter_shchurov
            peter_shchurov 22 October 2013 18: 03
            -2
            Quote: smile
            Well, compared to other human beings

            Do you seriously think that at least something significant differs from other people?
            My God, what conceit ... Nietzsche you do not read sometimes, you are our homegrown governess?
            1. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 22 October 2013 20: 02
              +4
              Quote: peter_shchurov
              Nietzsche do not read

              Unlike you read request Only conclusions from the works of the great German philosopher were made by others. They are Great and Great so that everyone can find something for themselves.
              1. peter_shchurov
                peter_shchurov 23 October 2013 08: 57
                0
                Quote: Ruslan67
                Unlike you read


                Yes really ... weakly I believe in it.

                and what exactly can you say?
            2. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 22 October 2013 20: 04
              +2
              By the way, congratulations on the new title wassat You are our bully Probably for sorting and hunting merits awarded? wassat
    2. Alex 241
      Alex 241 22 October 2013 20: 03
      +1
      Monument to PODILSKY CURSORS in Podolsk.
  • Snoop
    Snoop 22 October 2013 04: 24
    +1
    The point is not the flaw in the Soviet special services. They were just amnestied. They say the Balts lived under the Soviet regime for about a year, the USSR has not yet become their homeland for them, so it’s incorrect to talk about treason. It seems that in 1946 a decree was issued, therefore the criminal cases against these persons were stopped, already in the camps they were to be released. Therefore, there are so many. By the way, in relation to ordinary ROA and RONA who did not commit war crimes, it was also decided to replace them with serving in camps for 6 years of special settlement.
    1. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd 25 October 2013 22: 47
      0
      "Forest Brothers" and Bendera continued to massacre Soviet citizens until the end of the 50s! In the Caucasus and Crimea, this was prevented only by the deportation of elements hostile to the USSR. It is a pity, of course, that the family members of the few who fought in the Red Army fell under the "distribution".
      The first amnesty for such freaks was 1953 and, surprisingly, it almost did not touch the real war veterans who entered the camps for various reasons
  • Zorro1955
    Zorro1955 22 October 2013 15: 41
    +1
    Sorry. Instead of being shot, they soldered for 10-15 years in the camps.
  • erased
    erased 21 October 2013 09: 45
    15
    ... driven into the swamps and destroyed by the NKVD commandos ...

    Then such a word did not know - commandos. Even the fighters of the OMSBON (since 1943 - OCHNAZ) were not called so.
    And the rest of the essence of the article is true. The list of nationalities of prisoners taken from 22.06.41 to 2.09.45 by the Red Army is especially indicative. Among others there are more than 10 thousand Jews. Which fought on the side of Germany.
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 21 October 2013 19: 04
      +2
      More than 60000 Poles pleased no less
      1. d.gksueyjd
        d.gksueyjd 25 October 2013 22: 49
        0
        YOU have forgotten about the "valiant French" for Hitler they fought several times more than against!
  • Alexey
    Alexey 21 October 2013 09: 48
    +7
    Nothing new for me here. But I am sure that for many the information is useful, especially for the young. We must not forget about this. To the author - my respect.
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang 21 October 2013 10: 12
      +1
      Quote: Alex
      Nothing new for me here. But I am sure that for many the information is useful, especially for the young.

      Well, let people read it calmly and form their opinion. I am to the special forces. purpose of direct involvement, I have no relationship at all. But I have another "trick", where the calculation goes 1 year for 2. And this is not the North.
    2. samoletil18
      samoletil18 21 October 2013 19: 08
      0
      Quote: Alex
      Nothing new for me here. But I am sure that for many the information is useful, especially for the young. We must not forget about this. To the author - my respect.


      Previously, 4729 Dutch would not have paid attention.
  • Indigo
    Indigo 21 October 2013 10: 07
    +6
    Quote: erased
    The list of nationalities of prisoners taken from 22.06.41 to 2.09.45 by the Red Army is especially indicative. Among others there are more than 10 thousand Jews. Which fought on the side of Germany.

    It's mine. But what about the so-called the holocaust? And what about the Luftwaffe headquarters? If you don’t spit, again only yavreis. Something somehow does not stick in this song. One true Aryan Gereng and a whole kagal of half-brews made porridge, millions of Germans and Russians died for what? for some not their ideas. Bleed the people, and now they shove the same rake - again do the loot on deaths ... and how can it end then? ...
    1. Santa Fe
      21 October 2013 10: 29
      12
      Quote: Indigo
      It's mine. But what about the so-called the holocaust? And what about the Luftwaffe headquarters? If you don’t spit, again only yavreis. Something somehow does not stick in this song

      There were Jews. And there were "mishlinge" (half-breeds)
      Many of the German Mishling at the time the pogroms and the Holocaust began held high army posts and felt great under the Nazis.

      A striking example is battleship commander "Bismarck" Ernst Lindemann - he himself is half a Jew, his wife is a purebred halachic Jewess. At the same time, Lindemann was not at all afraid of the Gestapo and the SS, openly despised the Natsiks, instead of zigging with his right hand, he always put his hand on the visor

      But Lindemann was a participant in the Jutland naval battle, an experienced officer and, from the point of view of the Kriegsmarine, an untouchable figure. when it comes to 380mm naval guns, all the dumb theories about "Aryan skull sizes" fade into the background. What nafig Jews - here to survive under fire and return to their native shores

      Severe Aryan sailor))
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil 21 October 2013 10: 41
        16
        As Goering said: “In my Luftwaffe, I decide who is Jewish and who is not.” They went to see the Kriegsmarine in the same way.
    2. vkrav
      vkrav 21 October 2013 13: 26
      +5
      Quote: Indigo
      It's mine. But what about the so-called the holocaust?

      Here the Jewish authority died a while ago - like they buried all Israel, the prime minister and the president were walking behind the grave. So he frankly and honestly said that the Holocaust is a recompense to the Jews for their sins ..
      http://ru.euronews.com/2013/10/07/tributes-paid-to-rabbi-ovadia-yosef-founder-of
      -israel-s-shas-party-and-leader-of-sephardic-jews /
    3. REZMovec
      REZMovec 21 October 2013 23: 22
      +7
      The Holocaust? Another fiction of the Jews.
      But what is the destruction of the Slavs ??? No, what are you! What are the Slavs? There are no such. There are Jews. They rule the world. Therefore, there is the Holocaust.
      PS Jews please do not be offended - you can’t be offended by the TRUTH.
  • ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 21 October 2013 10: 14
    14
    Without a shudder of the heart, it is not possible to read an article and see photos ...
    The fact that now here and there young people are showing acts of vandalism at the memorials of Glory to the fallen in the Second World War, the guilt of traitors - such as Mendel, eBNa, gruboch, because of their policies they are already beginning to blame the USSR - to expose him as an aggressor, allegedly which the war began. Yes, there is also, obviously paid for by the West and the United States, filmmakers who "spew" false films, not only about the events of the Second World War, but also about relations between people, both at the front and in the rear. Therefore, what really wonder at how people "appreciate" the life given to them, at the cost of their OWN, by the participants of the Second World War. In addition to these SVO ..., there is an omission in the upbringing of children by FAMILY and SCHOOL.
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang 21 October 2013 10: 24
      +3
      Have you looked at the statistics? Do you know that it is the FRG police that initiates the absolute number of criminal cases related to WWII events?
    2. Santa Fe
      21 October 2013 10: 48
      +4
      Quote: ia-ai00
      Mendel type

      But Mendel is not to blame!

      The mendel has a boss who decides everything for the mendel. Why didn’t you mention his name in the list of traitors?
    3. samoletil18
      samoletil18 21 October 2013 19: 12
      0
      And what about polzoniya slaughter was not found!
      1. rodevaan
        rodevaan 24 October 2013 12: 24
        +3
        Quote: samoletil18
        And what about polzoniya slaughter was not found!


        - The paradox! One Mr. hell (Rezun) - made a historical revelation - and for a long time he beat millions of brains. So the State Department cost it absolutely free, well, maybe in the worst case - a couple of copper pennies, and the damage and shit of our nation did millions of times more than one cruise missile ...
    4. Basarev
      Basarev 21 October 2013 21: 03
      0
      Just outplayed in Calda
  • major071
    major071 21 October 2013 10: 21
    16
    If a person betrayed you once, then do not be surprised if you betray the second. Traitors were always despised, and those whom they betrayed, and those to whom they fled. stop
  • Klim podkova
    Klim podkova 21 October 2013 10: 30
    25
    But General Denikin refused to the Hitlerite emissaries on the offer of cooperation: "I consider it necessary to fight the Bolsheviks until their complete destruction, but at the same time I was and will remain a patriot of Russia."
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 21 October 2013 21: 04
      +4
      Oddly enough, but in this matter Denikin was just a golden man ...
      1. erg
        erg 22 October 2013 09: 13
        0
        That’s exactly what is all the same terrible. In the summer of 1946, he made a Russian Question memorandum addressed to the governments of Great Britain and the USA, in which he allowed a military clash between the leading Western powers and Soviet Russia in order to overthrow the communist domination, but he warned them of their intentions to dismember Russia in this case.
      2. Alex
        Alex 17 January 2014 21: 22
        +2
        Quote: Klim Podkova
        But General Denikin refused to the Hitlerite emissaries on the offer of cooperation: "I consider it necessary to fight the Bolsheviks until their complete destruction, but at the same time I was and will remain a patriot of Russia."
        Interestingly, how did he imagine the implementation of such an intricate scenario? Especially given that internal counter-revolution was no longer possible.

        Quote: Basarev
        Oddly enough, but in this matter Denikin was just a golden man
        Gold leaf. Most likely, he didn’t want to get dirty, he didn’t really believe in Hitler’s victory. Well, he knows better than anyone ...
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 October 2013 22: 12
      +2
      Quote: Klim Podkova
      But General Denikin refused to the Hitlerite emissaries on the offer of cooperation: "I consider it necessary to fight the Bolsheviks until their complete destruction, but at the same time I was and will remain a patriot of Russia."

      In this regard, along with Denikin’s answer, one can put the answer of the Kazakh, Mustafa Shokai, the leader of the anti-communist Turkic movement in Western Europe. All his life he had been promoting anti-Bolshevism and was an ardent supporter of the independence of the Turkic republics from Russia.
      In 1941, the Germans decided to create military units from Soviet Turkic prisoners of war and planned to put Mustafa Shokai at the head of the future Turkestan Legion of the Wehrmacht. Mustafa Shokai traveled to concentration camps, after which he stated that seeing the Nazis treating the prisoners, he refused to cooperate with the Germans, and at the same time perfectly understood what awaited him in case of failure to cooperate with the Nazis.
      All his life he called Kazakhs and Turks for independence, but he refused to call for independence with the help of the Nazis. A couple of months later, Mustafa Shokay "suddenly" died, and in his place the Germans found a more accommodating Uzbek, Vali Kayumov.
  • vlad0
    vlad0 21 October 2013 10: 34
    +8
    Instructive! Who would have uploaded the article to the sites of the Baltic "brothers". Once again I am convinced of the humanism of the Soviet leadership, instead of liquidation, many like them got off, even by our standards, with very modest terms - up to 10 years.
    1. smile
      smile 21 October 2013 15: 41
      +2
      vlad0
      They will not publish, they give a deadline for such articles or public statements. Democracy of Adnak. :)))
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 21 October 2013 10: 41
    +3
    Great article, well done author.
  • Santa Fe
    21 October 2013 10: 46
    -10 qualifying.
    The Romanian army was completely uncomfortable

    Romanian ace Konstantin Cantacuzino. He shot down 69 aircraft - more than another Kozhudub or Pokryshkin.

    July 27, 1943 "Messerschmitts" Esc.58 Van. were supposed to be accompanied by a German reconnaissance aircraft, however, due to technical problems, only one Cantacuzino fighter could be refueled at the right time. Arriving at the rendezvous point with the reconnaissance plane, he saw that it was being attacked by three Yaks. Opening fire from a distance, Cantacuzino made them turn away. Two minutes later he was able to get behind the leading Yak and shoot him down, after which the other two fighters withdrew from the battle. On the way back, Cantacuzino was able to shoot down another Pe-2.

    During August 2 - 5, 1943, he shot down five Il-2 and four Yaks, increasing the total number of his victories to 27.

    On August 28, 1943, Captain Cantacuzino was awarded the 1st Class German Iron Cross. Two days later, the five best Romanian fighter pilots at that time - Captain Sherbanescu, Captain Cantacuzino, locotent Tudor Grekea-well, sublocentent Ion Milu and sublocentent Ion Dicezare - were awarded the Order of Mihai Vite (Mihai Vite) class.

    On June 6, Cantacuzino, the first of the Romanian pilots, managed to shoot down an American P-51 fighter. On July 15, he had another Mustang on his account, and in early August he shot down two P-38s.

    On the morning of 25 August, six Bf-109G-6s led by Cantacuzino intercepted eleven German Non-111s from J./KG4, who were about to bomb the Romanian capital. As a result, Captain Cantacuzino shot down three Heinkels, and other pilots were able to damage three more bombers. Then the Romanian Messerschmitts attacked a group of Ju-87D-5s from I./SG2, also approaching Bucharest, and shot down one of them.
    1. ia-ai00
      ia-ai00 21 October 2013 11: 02
      +1
      It is a pity that this man was on the OTHER side of the BARRICAD.
      1. Santa Fe
        21 October 2013 11: 19
        +2
        Quote: ia-ai00
        was on the OTHER side of the BARRICAD.

        from what
        starting on August 23, 1944, he fought on our side))

        During February 25, 1945 "Messerschmitts" Gr.9 Van. actively supported the Romanian and Soviet units, which were conducting an offensive in the area of ​​Zvolen. During his fifth sortie that day, Captain Cantacuzino spotted a German FW-190F-8 "eight" storming the positions of the Soviet troops. Attacking, he shot down one Focke-Wulf, after which the rest hastily left the area. To receive then official confirmation of his new victory, Cantacuzino decided to establish the exact place of the fall of the German plane.

        Cantacuzino and his wing adjutant Trajan Darjan were so busy looking for the downed Focke-Wulf that they completely lost their vigilance. Taking advantage of the carelessness of the Romanian pilots, they were attacked by a pair of Bf-109G-6s led by the commander of I./JG53, Hauptmann Helmut Lipfert. Dyrzhan was shot down first, and he fell victim to Lipfert, who had once been his instructor and taught him to fly on the Messerschmitt. Dyrzhan was literally riddled with 13-mm bullets, and his plane crashed near Romanian positions 2. Meanwhile, Lipfert's wingman shot down Cantacuzino, who did not even have time to notice what had happened to his own wingman. Unlike Dirzhaia, he was lucky - he survived and soon returned to his group in a car belonging to the Romanian infantry division.

        On the same day, but somewhat later, Bf-109G-6 from Gr. 9 Van. met with a link Bf-109K. During the battle, two Romanian Messerschmitts were damaged, but at the same time the adjutant Constantin Nicoara managed to shoot down one ich of German fighters.
        1. peter_shchurov
          peter_shchurov 21 October 2013 13: 40
          +7
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          starting on August 23, 1944, he fought on our side))

          from a Romanian prostitute ..
          1. vahatak
            vahatak 21 October 2013 20: 41
            +3
            Why a prostitute? He was not involved in politics; he was following orders. wink
    2. smile
      smile 21 October 2013 15: 45
      +8
      SWEET_SIXTEEN
      I am often annoyed by the statements of ours - they say Romanians are not warriors, etc. etc., but they put up about a million soldiers against us. And a million soldiers are a million soldiers. anyway. Although they were less combat-ready than the Germans. but they had to fight seriously. Your example is a confirmation of this. Although a little thought creeps in, that the number of shots of a given character out of habit is slightly corrected ... upwards. :)))
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 21 October 2013 21: 09
        +1
        I also remember a very revealing story during the siege of Sevastopol. Then the Soviet troops fled the Romanians with slightly decorated tractors
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. SkiF_RnD
      SkiF_RnD 21 October 2013 22: 08
      10
      It is not the "facts of the biography" that annoys me, but the very first phrase. "more than another Kozhedub". It reads as if he surpassed the Soviet aces precisely in skill, and was a more dangerous opponent. I cannot but stand up for the brave Soviet ace. Comparing Kozhedub even with the "best" ace Erich Hartmann-
      1-Hartmann - 352 wins. Was shot down 14 times. Maybe this is not entirely objective, but all the same, 352 divided by 14 will be 25. He almost always attacked from an ambush, after which, as a rule, he left, using the advantage in the speed of his aircraft. He spoke about his "tactics" himself. The huge number of aircraft shot down in this way can be explained both by the characteristics of the targets (for example, single-seat Il-2 without cover), and by the "peculiarities" of accounting for air victories in the Luftwaffe. more than 1400 sorties. 825 air battles. That is 0.42 "shot down" in an air battle.
      Ivan Kozhedub - 64 wins. Was not shot down. 64 divided by 1 will, oddly enough, 64. Combat sorties 320, air battles 120. 0.53 "shot down" for an air battle, despite the fact that the method of recording shot down in the USSR was more strict. The fact that he managed to make fewer sorties than the German does not put him lower in professionalism.
      As for Cantacuzino, he has 45 confirmed victories, and not 69. Kozhedub, like many other Soviet pilots, also had "unconfirmed" victories, but it is not accepted to count them. 608 sorties, the number of conducted air battles was not found. In terms of departures, it is almost 2 times more than that of Kozhedub.
      I dare to say that Ivan Kozhedub is the best fighter pilot of World War II drinks There are good reasons for this, at least in terms of skill he is in no way inferior to "some Cantacuzino"
      Sincerely. hi
      1. smile
        smile 22 October 2013 00: 41
        +5
        SkiF_RnD
        You did not mention that. that the very fact of so many Hartman victories is, to say the least, dubious. Although, of course, no one doubts that he is an outstanding pilot ... only he is also an outstanding nonsense ... :)))
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 22 October 2013 00: 49
          +1
          But still, Hans Joachim Marcel, Volodya, you cannot blame for not being professional. So?
          1. smile
            smile 22 October 2013 03: 24
            0
            Day 11
            Well, of course I can’t .... And I do not blame. I and Hartman did not accuse of unprofessionalism. :)))
          2. Fitter65
            Fitter65 22 October 2013 05: 54
            +2
            Quote: Den 11
            But still, Hans Joachim Marcel, Volodya, you cannot blame for not being professional. So?

            If memory serves, before the African campaign, Marseil had about 4-5 shot down. And only when he got to Africa his personal account crept by leaps and bounds. And about his professionalism, he says how he shot down several Hurricanes in one battle, spent about 5- shells and a little more than 20 cartridges for machine guns (alas, I don’t remember the exact numbers, but it’s not when to climb to look in your archive, and not even hunting). One word from the pro. After all, in the African corps "experts" practiced shooting the BC in the sand, saying This is how they bring down the British. But when this professionalism was revealed, none of these "fighters" were punished, the enemy aircraft "shot down" in this way remained on their account. One word is professionals.
        2. SkiF_RnD
          SkiF_RnD 22 October 2013 17: 15
          +4
          About the number of "downed" - you can argue for a long time. And remember how many shot down were not counted by ours (Like, the infantry did not see how it was falling, the wreckage was not found, and it does not matter that the battle was behind the front line. , which were far from all cars, and did not always work properly), and how victories were counted to the Germans (there are pictures that hit the black stripe on the keel, loyal Wehrmacht warrior), for some kind of attack aircraft, "shot down" by all four "messengers" from different angles.
          Judging by the number of Hartmann's sorties, most likely his merits, if exaggerated, are not many times over. There is nothing exceptional in knocking down some helpless Il-2 in a dive, point-blank from a 30-mm Mk108, and going off into the sky with a candle, since almost until the very end of the war the Messers outnumbered ours in maximum speed and on the vertical. ... Erich himself said that he does not like air combat, considering it a waste of time. Judging by the fact that he was shot down 14 times, even the speed of the native "Gustav" did not always save the "ace" from stupid Russians, who, of course, were to blame for the fact that the aviation industry could not give them a truly worthy opponent for so long. -ke.
          My opinion is that if you win because of your skill, you are an ace. In the battle with the "red-nosed" Germans flew to the ground like a black arrow, because Soviet aces are air snipers and masters of bend combat, capable of wiping the nose of any enemy, and not just one that can be "quickly" shot down from an ambush and get away. And the fact that the Luftwaffe aces had a hundred or more "victories" did not prevent our pilots from tearing them apart into British flags in close combat. Erich Hartmann is clearly not a fool, he acted deliberately, but I do not consider him an ace fighter, on a par with Rechkalov, Pokryshkin, Safonov, Kozhedub, Saburo Sakai, and many others (not only Soviet ones).
      2. adler
        adler 22 October 2013 01: 09
        +5
        And while Kozhedub was at the front only in March 1943.
    4. Fitter65
      Fitter65 22 October 2013 05: 41
      +2
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Romanian ace Konstantin Cantacuzino. He shot down 69 aircraft - more than another Kozhudub or Pokryshkin.

      True, except by his statements, this is not confirmed
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      July 27, 1943 "Messerschmitts" Esc.58 Van. were supposed to be accompanied by a German reconnaissance aircraft, however, due to technical problems, only one Cantacuzino fighter could be refueled at the right time. Arriving at the rendezvous point with the reconnaissance plane, he saw that it was being attacked by three Yaks. Opening fire from a distance, Cantacuzino made them turn away. Two minutes later he was able to get behind the leading Yak and shoot him down, after which the other two fighters withdrew from the battle. On the way back, Cantacuzino was able to shoot down another Pe-2.

      If memory serves, in Denisov’s memoirs, this battle is described exactly the opposite, and there are footnotes to archival documents showing all the details, the participants of the battle, witnesses of the downed planes falling and the places of their crash. , rather, what little dec. Although I was surprised to fly almost next to such asasmi like Hartman and Barkhorn ...
  • andreitk20
    andreitk20 21 October 2013 10: 56
    +3
    What are the allies, such is the attitude towards them.
  • ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 21 October 2013 10: 58
    +1
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Quote: ia-ai00
    Mendel type

    But Mendel is not to blame!

    The mendel has a boss who decides everything for the mendel. Why didn’t you mention his name in the list of traitors?


    ... I'm afraid, what if you're right ??? I don’t want to believe in IT ...
  • Volkhov
    Volkhov 21 October 2013 11: 06
    -6
    We need comparative statistics - how many Nazis destroyed their accomplices in 44 and how many Communists in 24 ... 37 ... 48 ... 53. It seems that it is better not to have affairs with both the Nazis and the Zionists.
  • Jaros81
    Jaros81 21 October 2013 11: 25
    +3
    By the way, from whom was this Cossack corps formed? Just some kind of mixed attitude to them (squeamishness and pity at the same time). On the one hand, the Yankees and Saxons acted meanly (as always) by surrendering the Cossacks, but the SS Cossack corps was not a good thing ?! Their sentences are deadly full. They have earned sentences.
    1. Santa Fe
      21 October 2013 11: 35
      +2
      Quote: Jaros81
      By the way, from whom was this Cossack corps formed?

      Of the citizens of the USSR who mortally hated Soviet power

      ... Conduct mass terror against the rich Cossacks, destroying them without exception; to conduct a ruthless mass terror in relation to all Cossacks who took any direct or indirect part in the struggle against the Soviet power ...
      - Directives of the Central Committee of the RCP (b) “To all responsible comrades working in the Cossack regions”

      ... The rebels fiercely resisted. Each inch of land was defended by them with extraordinary bitterness ... Despite the lack of weapons, the numerical superiority of the enemy, the large number of wounded and killed, and the lack of food and military supplies, the rebels held on for a total of 12 days and only on the thirteenth day the battle along the entire line stopped ... They shot in the afternoon and at night all against whom there was the slightest suspicion of sympathy for the rebels. There was no mercy for anyone, nor children, nor old people, nor women, nor even seriously ill ...
      - the truth about the uprising of the village of Tikhoretskaya, 1932

      ... In the first battle, he sided with the Germans. He said that I would avenge all my relatives while I was alive. And I took revenge ...

      ... In the summer of 1942 the Germans came with the Cossacks. They began to form a volunteer Cossack regiment. I was the first in the village to volunteer for the 1st Cossack Regiment (1st Platoon, 1st Hundred). Got a mare, a saddle and a harness, a saber and a carbine. He took the oath of allegiance to the father of the Pacific Don ... Father and mother praised and were proud of me ...

      - from the testimony of captured SS Cossacks
      Quote: Jaros81
      On the one hand, the Yankees and Saxons acted meanly (though as always) having surrendered the Cossacks

      All according to the agreements of the Yalta Conference
      The allies promised to extradite all who were citizens of the USSR on September 1, 1939.

      True, with the Cossacks, they overdid it a little - together with the traitors, about 3 thousand "old" emigrants were issued
      1. Klim podkova
        Klim podkova 21 October 2013 11: 55
        10
        Emigrant Cossacks arrived in Serbia after the evacuation of Wrangel's army from Crimea (I omit the odyssey of their wanderings between Crimea and Serbia for brevity). Serbia accepted the Slavic brothers. And the Slav brothers who settled in Serbia, joined the Wehrmacht in 1940 and began to fight against Tito's partisans. The Cossack corps in the Balkans was used exclusively for partisan warfare. Read the testimony of Panwitz - brutal punitive actions against the local population were quite common. This is how the Cossacks "thanked" the Serbs! It's bitter to read about it, but what happened was what happened. After the war, the Yugoslavs demanded that the Cossacks be handed over to them for trial. The GULAG camps, where the Cossacks ended up, were certainly not a sanatorium, but the Serbs were just going to hang them all.
        1. ia-ai00
          ia-ai00 21 October 2013 12: 08
          +6
          Lord, how much grief falls on people's heads. Dying in millions and there is no end and end Nobody knows where, when and what kind of "meat grinder" will get ...
      2. catapractic
        catapractic 21 October 2013 20: 29
        +2
        there and the road-put on a German uniform, took a weapon-answer
      3. Saburov
        Saburov 21 October 2013 21: 28
        +7
        Real white officers, those who left abroad after 17, collected money, things, food for the Soviet Union, realizing that if Germany wins, Russia will not be there, neither White nor Red, nor any clergy with parish money, gave to the needs of the front and of their own free will, what is worth one tank column Dmitry Donskoy, Rakhmaninov speaking in the United States, sent money from his concerts to the Union, and those who fought for the Germans this elementary nomenclature thieves who drank and walked their fortune in the west, officers careerists, to half-educated adolescents with three classes of education and hit in the head with a cross on their heads and a lot of scum who wanted to profit from this war, not one real Russian officer would fight for another army, against his homeland, even Kolchak said that he would give the gold to the Bolsheviks as soon as possible than give it to allies.
    2. peter_shchurov
      peter_shchurov 21 October 2013 13: 43
      -9
      On the one hand, the Yankees and Saxons acted meanly (though as always) by surrendering the Cossacks, but the Cossack SS corps was not a good thing ?!


      That you would then be on g "but would have come out if they did not give out.
      You know, as in Odessa they say, "You either put on your panties, or remove the cross."

      I understand that hatred of allies is a sacred thing for every hamster, but at least sometimes turn on the interaural ganglion.
      1. smile
        smile 21 October 2013 15: 51
        +6
        peter_shchurov
        Do you think that we should love those who did everything they could to destroy our country? If they hated us and wanted to tear the country apart, which they did not hide, then how should we relate to them, huh? How neobandera- cancer stand up? :))) Sorry, but this is not in our tradition, contact the Baltic and Ukrainian secessionists with this. :)))
        1. peter_shchurov
          peter_shchurov 21 October 2013 18: 20
          -5
          Quote: smile
          those who did everything they could to destroy our country?

          Well, yes ... and for Lend-Lease, are you, the successors of the USSR, paid to the end?
          And patriotic words and "all around radishes, and I'm DeArtantyan" can hide behind any saint.
          1. smile
            smile 21 October 2013 20: 07
            +4
            peter_shchurov
            Nuuuu, something you tried too small to answer ... it's called, from a gun into a puddle ... :)))
            As for the land lease ...

            For a start, read the book by Edward Stennius - The Mysteries of Lend-Lease - Formula of Victory http://lib.rus.ec/b/184874/read I hope you don’t suspect that the head of the Department for Compliance with the Lend-Lease Law has sold out to the Bolsheviks?
            Harry Hopkins - quote:
            We Americans, however, are pragmatic people, and someone may ask: “12,9 billion is a very big price. Are such expenses justified? ”
            I think that we return even twice as much. Lend-lease did not bring damage to our economy, but this help brought huge dividends. 

            Comrade Simson (of the Ministry of Defense) to Senator George in February 1941, when the Lend-Lease Act was being discussed, “if you take into account that it took only 18 months to 2 years to develop the production of new aircraft engines, and from 16 to 18 months for ”of the development of production of new aircraft, it is easy to understand that without the initial impetus that we received thanks to these foreign orders, we would now be in a very difficult position in the face of the vital need to solve all these production problems.” 
            “Lend-lease supplies to the Soviet Union on the profitability and high profitability of the Soviet Union were repeatedly indicated by the statesmen and politicians of the USA and England during the Great Patriotic War. During the Anglo-American conference in Casablanca in January 1943, Roosevelt noted: "Deliveries to Russia are a profitable investment." Churchill spoke of the need to increase Russia's military assistance, for “no other form of capital investment can provide the best military dividends”
            All this is conclusive evidence. that they are so great welded on land Lisa.
            And this land lease does not at all cancel the fact that both before the war and after these enemies they did everything in their power for our destruction and robbery - and it was not their fault that we survived then.
            Are you satisfied
            1. peter_shchurov
              peter_shchurov 21 October 2013 22: 49
              -3
              Quote: smile
              Are you satisfied

              Yes, especially if, in light of the above, you give at least 3 reasons why Britain / USA should have a positive attitude towards the USSR.

              Well, let's say, in the light of a separate treaty in Brest in 1918, the creation of the International, the refusal to pay royal debts, etc., etc.
              Yakshanya with Adolf, the Winter War can be omitted for now.
              1. smile
                smile 22 October 2013 00: 56
                +4
                peter_shchurov
                The peace of Brest was concluded when the army was destroyed in the country through the efforts of the temporary ... on the vine. and the Germans, not meeting resistance, rushed to us. As soon as the Bolsheviks created an army, the backbone of which was the officer corps of the Republic of Ingushetia, the agreement was canceled, only six months later.
                Hitler and I didn’t hobble at all. unlike the allies who created it, nourished and armed.
                What do you have against the fact that we were able to return part of the Finnish territory of the Republic of Ingushetia? Moreover, to take it away from the state, created contrary to international law, and the state, which had been preparing for a coalition war of aggression with us for twenty years, according to their plans, they were going to double our territory at our expense. Or did you like the fascist and absolutely Russophobic regime of Mannerheim, which shot and planted even its Russian allies in concentration camps in 18-20? Or do you care who should give the Russian lands, even to those who, capturing our lands, COLLECTIVELY sent all Russians to concentration camps, as the Finns did during the Second World War? Are you Russophobe? If not, then what kind of Allah do you operate with Rezunov’s type agitations?

                And there were no reasons for the countries you indicated to treat us well — did someone relate well to the country that they are trying to dismember, rob and destroy? By the way. and we, in your opinion, should have been very fond of them for this? :))) you are some kind of patriot ... :)))
      2. samoletil18
        samoletil18 21 October 2013 19: 24
        +9
        My ancestors from the Soviet regime suffered specifically and to the fullest. But they fought for Russia with the Red Army. And I think that there are most of them, among dispossessed, spoken, repressed, exiled, etc. And the insult to power, in that situation, is an ordinary reason for betrayal. Chechens, Kalmyks and Crimean Tatars were not exiled before, but after perfect betrayal. When my great-grandfather escaped from captivity, it was the Kalmyks who surrendered to the Germans.
    3. Doctorleg
      Doctorleg 21 October 2013 15: 05
      +3
      Quote: Jaros81
      By the way, from whom was this Cossack corps formed? Just some kind of mixed attitude to them (squeamishness and pity at the same time). On the one hand, the Yankees and Saxons acted meanly (as always) by surrendering the Cossacks, but the SS Cossack corps was not a good thing ?! Their sentences are deadly full. They have earned sentences.

      It is interesting that the Yankees and Saxons could not deserve your positive assessment: they gave it - they acted meanly, they would not give it - probably even meaner. Where did the poor peasant go? Zugzwang wink
  • Yarik
    Yarik 21 October 2013 11: 26
    +9
    The trial of the Cossack generals of the Wehrmacht took place in the walls of the Lefortovo prison behind closed doors from 15 to 16 in January of 1947. 16 January in 15: 15 judges retired for sentencing. In 19: 39 the verdict was announced:

    “The Military Collegium of the USSR Supreme Court sentenced the generals Krasnov PN, Krasnov S.N., Shkuro SG, von Pannevitsa G. to the death penalty for leading the armed struggle against the Soviet Union through the groups they formed.”

    On 20: 45 of the same day, the sentence was carried out.


    Christmas trees are green, this is speed. But here they can’t ....
    1. smile
      smile 21 October 2013 15: 54
      +3
      Yarik
      The investigation took more than a year and a half. Plus, in the spring of '47, the death penalty was abolished ... it was worth hurry ... :)))
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 21 October 2013 11: 33
    10
    Here, in the former Estland province / Estonian SSR, the titular Nazis are national heroes, "liberators". The memorial "Maryamagi!", Which was built in memory of the victims of the Great Patriotic War, is now rebuilt as a monument to the Nazis. At the same time, about the concentration camps on the territory of Esstonia, where hundreds of thousands of people were tortured, that Esstonia was the first to report on "Juden Fry", complete silence ... negative angry
    1. smile
      smile 21 October 2013 16: 00
      +5
      Peaceful military
      And the Lithuanians reluctantly admit - but I mention mainly when they poke them with this. The main leitmotif is not death camps, but labor ... they say the people there are a bit arbayten in greenhouse conditions, and if anyone was dying there, then the Jews .. and Russians, no, no, they rolled like cheese in butter ... how can They are enlightened Europeans. :)))
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 21 October 2013 16: 50
        +1
        Quote: smile
        Peaceful military
        And the Lithuanians reluctantly admit - but I mention mainly when they poke them with this. The main leitmotif is not death camps, but labor ... they say the people there are a bit arbayten in greenhouse conditions, and if anyone was dying there, then the Jews .. and Russians, no, no, they rolled like cheese in butter ... how can They are enlightened Europeans. :)))

        These are Latvians, about "Salaspils".
        1. smile
          smile 21 October 2013 18: 15
          +1
          Peaceful military
          There was a death camp in Kaunas at Fort 9; now it is called the labor camp in the press. Take an interest, there was even a museum, I don’t know if it was preserved.
          1. Peaceful military
            Peaceful military 21 October 2013 22: 11
            +1
            Quote: smile
            Peaceful military
            There was a death camp in Kaunas at Fort 9; now it is called the labor camp in the press. Take an interest, there was even a museum, I don’t know if it was preserved.

            OOPS! I didn’t know God ... What a shame ... sad
            1. smile
              smile 22 October 2013 01: 02
              +2
              Peaceful military
              There is no shame in that — it is impossible to know everything physically. I also make mistakes, and more seriously, because I normally relate to strangers. Yes, and unprincipled it is bullshit, in a word, and not a mistake. :)))
  • Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 21 October 2013 11: 40
    +4
    I don’t understand our former. It seems that they studied in the same Soviet schools, served in the same Soviet Army, and now Georgia is fighting in Afghanistan, Ukraine fought in Iraq. And someone else is out there somewhere. And again for the interests of others. In Russia, of course, not everything is good either, but not so terribly. There is nobody else besides us.
  • misterwulf
    misterwulf 21 October 2013 11: 48
    +9
    In general, the story of the Cossacks von Paunwitz is unduly heroized by the new liberal traitors.
    There was an excess, but! Everything is done by the right of the winner. The British did not want to quarrel at all. And so? Why are they better than Bandera? What deserve leniency?
    1. Jaros81
      Jaros81 21 October 2013 12: 11
      +6
      Von Paunwitz - he is not a Cossack at all, a German of pure blood, but they wanted to erect a monument to him ... Why not erect monuments to truly worthy people? Budyonny (St. George medals of all degrees, soldier George of 4 degrees, St. George cross of all degrees, the only USSR marshal who actively studied), Kolchak (not only the White Admiral, but also a Russian oceanographer, one of the largest polar researchers of the late XIX - early XX centuries, a military and political figure, a full member of the imperial Russian geographical society), and other worthy people.
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 21 October 2013 13: 13
        +4
        Kolchak (not only the White Admiral, but also a Russian scientist-oceanographer, one of the largest polar explorers of the late XIX - early XX centuries, a military and political figure, a full member of the imperial Russian geographical society), and other worthy people.

        Dear Yaroslav!
        Here I would not agree with you, because the "merits" of this "Supreme Ruler of Russia" exported to Russia by the Naglo-Saxons cancel out all his real merits.
        1. Jaros81
          Jaros81 10 November 2013 00: 17
          0
          And you can find out what "merits". If he slammed several "Reds", then I can recall how the "favorite" of some liberals, Tukhachevsky, drowned the Kronstadt rebellion (and not only someone else's) and the Tambov uprising, where he used chemical weapons against the population.
  • revnagan
    revnagan 21 October 2013 12: 26
    11
    Well, I just want to cry out of pity for the Fritsev lackeys. Especially my soul hurts for the "government" of Stetska. negative And those "unfortunate" Hungarians, to whom the Fritzes were bestial, well, how not to regret. Especially after what they did with us. In general, what they deserved, they got it. It's a pity, not enough. The NKVD's imperfection of facets was expensive. If the NKVD was so cruel, did these old peer du.nas appear on my land in SS uniform, if the NKVD was so cruel?
    1. ia-ai00
      ia-ai00 21 October 2013 12: 39
      +8
      Yes ..., I read it several times that the Hungarians were distinguished by SPECIAL RIGIDITY ... how, after that, to feel sorry for them, or the Japanese, after what they were doing.
      1. samoletil18
        samoletil18 21 October 2013 19: 31
        +1
        In the Voronezh region, children are probably still being scared of Magyars.
  • LSV
    LSV 21 October 2013 12: 39
    11
    "Captive Romanians slightly shocked by the conditions of the Eastern Front "
    Above this phrase and the photo above her neighing until you drop. author krasava)))
  • Skiper
    Skiper 21 October 2013 13: 25
    +9
    Quote: FC Skif
    The Germans considered themselves the supreme race

    In our time, a new "Superior Race" has appeared. And the valiant "independent" Ukrainians began to lick them too. Bad fly, something urgently needs to be done with this, otherwise there are more and more "square" vegetables every day
    1. revnagan
      revnagan 21 October 2013 19: 23
      +2
      Quote: Skiper
      something urgently needs to be done with this, otherwise there are more and more "independent" vegetables every day

      I propose that they reduce their strength.
  • kotvov
    kotvov 21 October 2013 13: 33
    +8
    WELL THESE CREATURES I WILL NOT PRECISELY BURN. The father told me when the Romanians passed through their farm to Stalingrad, they searched for partisans in the chests. Not a lot of good left the Cossack chests with these, “heirs,” Caesars.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 21 October 2013 14: 32
      +1
      Quote: kotvov
      father told me, when the Romanians passed through their farm to Stalingrad, they searched for partisans in the chests. Not a lot of good left the Cossack chests with these, “heirs,” Caesars.


      For the future, dummies in the Volga and Don steppes in considerable quantities did not go cold.
    2. zub46
      zub46 27 October 2013 23: 57
      0
      Do not worry about the chests. In the Kursk region there is a village of Bobrava. In the spring of 1943, some of the Romanians who did not fall into the camps, after Stalingrad, walked on foot in the direction of their homeland. At that time, nobody needed them anymore. In one of the huts of the named village, a group of junior lieutenants sat at the table at my relative, who were going to their units at the end of the officer courses. Seeing the Romanians, the guys jumped out onto the street, leaned them against the nearest wall and quickly led to the expense. The local population then dug somewhere.
  • andrei332809
    andrei332809 21 October 2013 13: 42
    +4
    I understand that you can’t say so, but in today's realities you will regret that the Germans did not bring Romanians and Psheks to the root.
  • EtickayaSila
    EtickayaSila 21 October 2013 13: 47
    +2
    "... treated the Romanian servicemen like cattle: they never trusted them with important sections of the front ..." So, in your opinion, the northern face of the Stalingrad salient at the end of 1942 is not a very important section of the front?
  • Pavlov A.E.
    Pavlov A.E. 21 October 2013 14: 03
    +1
    The article is correct, but it’s easy to judge us now, we didn’t live then. And who God fought for whom will judge the right choice.
    1. Alex
      Alex 17 January 2014 21: 41
      +2
      Quote: Pavlov A.E.
      The article is correct, but it’s easy to judge us now, we didn’t live then. And who God fought for whom will judge the right choice.
      Not a god, but a man makes a choice for whom he should fight. And what he is doing, he also knows. So it’s not worth crying over them - you can only imagine what would happen if ALL of them won.
  • sergey1972
    sergey1972 21 October 2013 14: 30
    +5
    committing betrayal, a man in front of himself tries to find a moral justification for his act, building, as it seems to him, a chain of just reasons for which he should do just that and not otherwise. Simply put, he tries to deceive himself to please the circumstances, in whom he either saves himself or improves his existence, but man does not take into account one-betrayal by betrayal and will remain forever, and that today the betrayal has saved, tomorrow it will destroy him forever. I sincerely believe that the main sin is betrayal.
  • understudy
    understudy 21 October 2013 14: 32
    +2
    Quite a strange bird on the poster "The Caucasus will be free" ... legs and belly, like a fat broiler. On the ostrich's neck, who knows what: from a sparrow to a chicken's head. And this mutant was supposed to symbolize something and frighten someone?
    I remember, before the first "Chechen" regiment, they drew an eagle on the turntables of the regiment, against the background of the mountains carrying a ram ... this was the topic, modestly, without inscriptions, but everyone understood everything - the aces who had passed through Afghanistan and the Caucasus. repeat
  • Roland
    Roland 21 October 2013 14: 36
    +1
    Good quotes

    The gods are betrayed by the apostles.

    Believing the oaths of a traitor is like believing the devil's piety.

    Traitors are despised even by those to whom they have served.
  • vikov
    vikov 21 October 2013 14: 40
    -2
    The great civil war of the peoples of Europe and Asia.
  • alex.limoff
    alex.limoff 21 October 2013 15: 44
    +1
    Traitors were always and everywhere treated with contempt. No matter how they (traitors) show their loyalty to their "masters".
  • Luga
    Luga 21 October 2013 16: 09
    +2
    Great article, thanks to the author.
    The contemptuous attitude of the "superior race" towards the "subhumans" ... Let those who sympathize with the German fascists (Nazis, National Socialists) in our country understand who their idols would be like them. Most importantly, such an attitude towards the "allies" on the part of the "superior race" is not a local inflection, but an iron rule. So it was and will be with everyone who wants to bask in the fascist stove.
    Those who are trying to drown this stove today ... Nothing will help them. With these - only brute force, for in people infected with the ideology of fascism, the brain begins to work only after a hard knockout.
    By the way, the concept of "fascism", as far as I know, presupposes the presence of such signs as nationalism, authoritarianism or totalitarianism of power and the personality cult of the dictator. Therefore, this term does not apply to states. Of all the above, only the totalitarianism of power, but the power itself is anonymous, and they have no nation at all. But the methods of implementing the policy (both external and internal) are absolutely identical. What is the name of an ideology based on the superiority of one group of people over others in a broader sense than fascism, without nationalistic overtones and personality cult?
    By the way, the American state at the moment is very reminiscent of the Strugatskys' "Inhabited Island". An anonymous (in fact) government, a general intoxication, an economy tailored for military purposes, an aggressive foreign policy ... It is necessary to reread.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 21 October 2013 16: 47
    +3
    Betrayal is disgusting to a normal person in any form. So that in vain the Western Ukrainians thought that Hitler would give them the opportunity to create their own power. According to the Germans, all the lower races, including the Slavs, should be either destroyed or turned into slaves. So, do not panicky panama nationalists!
  • kaktus
    kaktus 21 October 2013 17: 01
    0
    unnecessary witnesses and accomplices, as a rule, are removed. "Nothing Personal - Business" or Politics
  • deman73
    deman73 21 October 2013 17: 28
    0
    traitors where and whoever doesn’t like to do their filthy job and that’s all - they will be allowed to use either new or old
  • Taz
    Taz 21 October 2013 17: 53
    -1
    Quote: peter_shchurov
    Quote: Standard Oil
    but all sorts of ROA or Cossacks or other Russian traitors cause just fierce hatred.


    Well, why, they put monuments in their place for you, and everything is in order, no one will blather, it’s not paid, for example, a monument to P.N. Krasnov in the village of Elanskaya.
    And if only the word who said ..


    "My shit doesn't stink" - that's what they say. This is how people are arranged and unfortunately nothing can be done about it. What the neighbors do not notice correctly, and what is going on under their noses - this is how it should be. Moreover, there are a lot of Ukrainophobes here, hence the one-sided views on the common problem. I'm waiting for the minuses, because the truth hurts the eye. Or am I wrong?
    1. Jager
      Jager 21 October 2013 19: 04
      +2
      There are not a lot of Ukrainophobes here, there are a lot of "independent phobes" here. I treat my brothers-Slavs with respect, but nationalist-fascist-liberals (strangers and even more so their own) cause disgust in any form.
      When the monument to Bandera was erected, a 93-year-old neighbor-grandmother from a Kherson village sobbed with shock and hatred. She told a lot ... How they were hanged, shot, burned alive, tortured OWN, "Westerners" in German uniform. How she was captured and miraculously survived in the camp.
      The only "vaccination" for modern "Nazis" and the like is to send them to battle-reconstruction. With live ammunition and artillery. To begin with, 5 minutes. I am sure that after that, the survivors and those who have done so will reconsider their views on life and the structure of the world.
    2. samoletil18
      samoletil18 21 October 2013 19: 39
      +2
      I will not pass, but you are wrong. Vlasovtsev, etc. we despise no less than Bendera.
      1. Jager
        Jager 23 October 2013 19: 30
        0
        Vlasovites, Bandera - what's the difference? Traitors have no color.
    3. smile
      smile 21 October 2013 20: 25
      +2
      Taz
      Just wait, get ... :))) They deserve it. :))) The fact is that there are no Ukrainophobes - they simply don’t like Russophobes here, although they don’t prevent them from speaking out. And the fact that part of the Russophobes-Bandera is so is not our fault. And to call bandarlogs (who served anyone, if only Russian was worse and brought Ukraine so much grief) as Ukrainians, my tongue does not turn out to be scum of Ukrainian society, like Vlasov or that beast without honor and conscience that served in the Cossack formations of the SS.
      1. Taz
        Taz 22 October 2013 11: 58
        +1
        smile
        I am not trying to whiten Ukrainian nationalists. Nazism is bad in any of its manifestations and regardless of nationality. Only, for some reason, this site is mainly seen only by Ukrainian nationalists and traitors, but they do not want to point out the traitors of Russian nationality, and in modern Russia there are no less Natsik than in other countries of the world. In any case, the emphasis is ALWAYS placed on the traitors of the Ukrainians (Bendera, policemen, etc.). What speaks of obvious Ukrainophobia. But the manifestations of Russophobia have not yet met here.
        1. Firstvanguard
          Firstvanguard 25 October 2013 09: 24
          +1
          You are wrong, the emphasis is not on Ukrainian or Baltic geeks, we have plenty of them crying All the same, in my city on May 9 they go with red flags, and not a swastika.
        2. Alex
          Alex 17 January 2014 21: 59
          +2
          Quote: Taz
          on this site, mostly only Ukrainian nationalists and traitors are seen, but they do not want to notice the traitors of Russian nationality at point blank range,
          They want. And they notice. And not only Russians, but others as well. The problem lies elsewhere. Practically no one, except for the Bandera and the "forest brothers", was banditry AFTER the end of the war. And practically no one (even the "forest brothers" for all their sadism) have reached such sophisticated methods of torture and such a scale of destruction of people, who are innocent (doctors, teachers, agronomists, highly qualified workers), as these non-humans. Explain to me personally, how can the "freedom and independence of Ukraine" be promoted by sawing a raped girl teacher on a sawmill? How many years earlier will Ukraine "become happy" after drowning an elderly surgeon in a well with his entire family? And this was when it was clear to anyone, even the most advanced imbitil, that all dreams of "independence under the canopy of the German eagle" remained dreams. And how can I, a Ukrainian, then say something about honor and dignity, about a joint struggle against fascism, oh ... but you never know about anything else?

          But the manifestations of Russophobia have not yet met here.
          And what, Russophobia for you would be a balm for a tormented soul? Here, personally, all xenophobia is disgusting to me, whatever the object.

          Anyway, let's not replace "banderophobia" with "ukrainophobia". As far as I noticed, the people on this site are quite adequate, and they are quite capable of distinguishing bandits and nationalists from heroes and patriots. Regardless of nationality.
  • Korben
    Korben 21 October 2013 18: 34
    +5
    The article is generally interesting! But I did not like the tone regarding the Ukrainians! The author specially humiliatingly generalizes the Calabrationists and the Ukrainian people as a whole!

    In many sources, statistics are found that more than half of the SS divisions consisted of soldiers of non-Aryan origin (Albanians, Belgians, French, Serbs, Balts, Ukrainians, Russian traitors, Cossacks and former White Guards).

    My grandfather went to the front as a soldier, returned as captain, Chevalier of the Red Star and other orders and medals! Author, if you write, be objective!
    1. Des10
      Des10 21 October 2013 19: 42
      +4
      Most citizens of Russia are normal to all nationalities. Including and Ukrainians. My grandfather, a Ukrainian, started as a lieutenant, reached Berlin, returned as a major.
    2. Vladimir73
      Vladimir73 6 November 2013 21: 44
      0
      A lot of controversy is said about Ukrainian nationalists, which seems to be why the author paid so much attention to them (since he is constantly hearing)
    3. Alex
      Alex 17 January 2014 22: 06
      +2
      Quote: Korben
      In many sources, statistics are found that more than half of the SS divisions consisted of soldiers of non-Aryan origin (Albanians, Belgians, French, Serbs, Balts, Ukrainians, Russian traitors, Cossacks and former White Guards).
      And where did you find the "derogatory generalization"? A simple listing of representatives of non-Aryan nationalities in the composition of the punitive SS units. A kind of illustration of what dirty tasks (in which even the elite Aryans did not want to get their hands dirty) they were used. And then they thanked.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Black
    Black 21 October 2013 19: 34
    -5
    Article plus.
    If you will allow me, I disagree only with the fact that the Cossacks were also piled up with the failed “friends” of Germany - the Romanians, Psheks, macaroni, Czechs.
    The countries of Europe went for cooperation with the Reich for one reason, the Cossacks, who found themselves outside the homeland - for completely different reasons.
    It is impossible to compare Denikin's "patriotism" and Shkuro's "betrayal". Denikin lost the war, Shkuro and his comrades considered the civil war to be a Bolshevik devilry, genocide of his people, and when he got into the service he fought not with Russia, not with the Russian people. but with the Bolsheviks.
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 21 October 2013 19: 45
      +6
      They fought with Bolshevism, but shot at the Russians
    2. avg
      avg 21 October 2013 20: 08
      +2
      Shkuro and his comrades considered the civil war the Bolshevik devilry, the genocide of his people, and having entered the service he fought not with Russia, not with the Russian people. but with the Bolsheviks.

      The goal will never justify the means used to achieve it.
      The people will never accept the "liberators" of the foreign invaders arriving in the train.
      This is still not understood by our modern opposition, who think that a negative attitude to the current ruling party gives them carte blanche for actions with support, and dictated by the West.
      1. bwo
        bwo 21 October 2013 21: 44
        -6
        > The end will never justify the means used to achieve it.
        The people will never accept the "liberators" of the foreign invaders arriving in the train.

        But Ulyanov and the company?
        1. Alex
          Alex 17 January 2014 22: 16
          +2
          Quote: bwo
          But Ulyanov and the company?
          And when did they bring in the invaders? On the contrary, they fought them. Unlike the "saviors of Russia" of various stripes and colors.
    3. smile
      smile 21 October 2013 20: 18
      +5
      Black
      Inferior Shkuro and Krasnov. famous in civilian rare atrocities, including in relation to the Cossacks, half of whom supported the Reds, went to the service of Hitler. And they didn’t fight with the Bolsheviks, they destroyed the Soviet people and tried to help the Nazis completely destroy them, driving the miserable remnants of the Russian people into slavery .... fighters against the Bolsheviks who were actively involved in the genocide of their own people are good ... shine!
      Let's-let's, sing the hosanna to the poor SS executioners, tirelessly working for the benefit of Hitler's father (and swearing personal allegiance to him) on the grounds that these executioners were Russian ... quite already ... brutalized ...
      1. Black
        Black 21 October 2013 21: 29
        +1
        Quote: smile
        Black
        Inferior Shkuro and Krasnov. famous in civilian rare atrocities, including in relation to the Cossacks, half of whom supported the Reds, went to the service of Hitler. And they did not fight with the Bolsheviks; they destroyed the Soviet people and tried to help the Nazis completely destroy it, driving the miserable remnants of the Russian people into slavery


        I in no way consider Shkuro and K to be innocent of their homeland. But in hindsight everyone is strong. And for these - Civil continued. On the other side, according to various estimates, there were up to a million of our compatriots who considered Hitler to be a situational ally in the fight against Bolshevism, like the plague.
        1. smile
          smile 21 October 2013 22: 09
          +5
          Black
          On that side was about 700 thousand. Of these, over three hundred thousand are unarmed Hi-VI of different nationalities. the rest are hundreds of thousands of Bandera, over hundreds of thousands of Baltic states.
          There were only about 60 thousand Russians in the ROA and in national formations and in the police.
          The SS men are Cossacks, these are punitive troops. They were not allowed to the front. I'm not talking about the officers that ordinary Cossacks did not see what they have to do? They did not know that the Russians are called subhuman?
          Or maybe the fact is that the work for the Nazis was no different from what they did in the civilian? And where does Bolshevism-they also saw that they were simply destroying the civilian population, including the Russian. So, what is not necessary about situational allies - the vast majority of the Cossacks, at the mere mention of the SS Cossacks, were furious. I know what I'm talking about - my grandfather, from the age of 42, in the spring of 45, fought in the Kuban Cossack compound at Pliev. This, of course, is not the Don, but still ... I think everything is further clear?
          And let's be consistent - if you justify the Russian SS men, then justify everyone else - they all served Hitler equally faithfully and did the same "work" ...
    4. catapractic
      catapractic 21 October 2013 20: 34
      +4
      Shkuro, Krasnova, Vlasov- it was necessary not to hang, and put on a stake, but Comrade Stalin showed humanism
  • I'm Russian
    I'm Russian 21 October 2013 19: 41
    +2
    Minus article put unfinished fascist.
    1. catapractic
      catapractic 21 October 2013 20: 32
      -1
      or their descendant
  • Day 11
    Day 11 21 October 2013 20: 09
    +6
    It’s great for everyone! What can I say? Ordinary torn pieces from Sinyavskaya’s book. Probably for schoolchildren of the 5th-7th grade it’s the most. Actually, it was much more complicated. For example, about shot Italians on the island of Kefalonia. For starters, you need to try to understand this question (isn’t it?) before spreading the horrors of the Nazis over poor pasta (although I do not deny it). Why did suddenly the best friends of the Italian Hans take and shoot a bunch of pasta? And everyone is aware that they (Italian) time to determine their position in relation to their allies (so far) Germans? Well, remind me how it started? Who killed whom first (how many, under what circumstances)? The author should, for a start, study this issue and then lay it out .After appropriate criticism in my address, you can proceed to consider the following
  • catapractic
    catapractic 21 October 2013 20: 32
    0
    aspen nits
  • Day 11
    Day 11 21 October 2013 20: 42
    +3
    And now read, bitte, the last interview of Erich Pribke (that one). The old man lived his life and you can be sure that he was telling the truth http://holocaustrevisionism.blogspot.ru/2013/10/intervju-Erich-Priebke.html# more
    1. smile
      smile 21 October 2013 23: 54
      +2
      Day 11
      Oh Dan. I read his interview ... Do you know what it reminded me of? Goering's testimony at the Nuremberg trials. He also argued that they acted in much the same way as the British and Americans ... and his speeches were not without logic ... but by and large he was telling a lie.
      Look - he accuses us of the Katyn execution, based on the nonsense of our hunchback. But the Polish version of events is entirely based on the version of Goebbels. I will not rassusolit, but in order to understand the essence of the problem I recommend a very academic book - Vladislav Shved "Katyn. Modern history of the issue." In my opinion, this is the best book on the topic. it was not for nothing that the European court refused to satisfy Polish claims a year and a half ago. Although he twisted himself, trying to play along with the Poles ...

      Regarding the Holocaust - I don’t want to discuss the topic - I got a Jewish theme, especially since, anyway, the Jews really got it. The interviewer's claims that the cause of Kristallnacht were the actions of a Jewish terrorist ... well, they do not hold water.
      And as for the gas stoves, the man is also cunning - check out the testimonies of Rudolf Hess (namesake) of the commandant of the Auschwitz complex. He also left his own memories — and there was no reason for him to lie — he was a suicide bomber anyway. here, read

      http://lib.rus.ec/b/215622/read
      there is no stone unturned from your old man's "testimony" ...
      And the OST plan is not a fiction but a harsh reality ...

      So that the old man says what he thinks. but he thinks, in my opinion, bad things ...
    2. hrych
      hrych 21 October 2013 23: 57
      +3
      The old man said everything correctly, especially about the crimes of the Allies and the creation of Israel, and about Poland (although it is not a pity). And, that before the Germans shot their henchmen, it’s so wonderful that our work was less, otherwise they would have been captured if our nasty creatures would have survived because all the nasty things in the occupied territories were on their conscience.
  • Day 11
    Day 11 21 October 2013 21: 38
    0
    Come on, continue to put pluses for each other --- you’ll become marshals! But you don’t want to try to figure out the root of this problem! This cattle Hitler (... smelly) drove into the head of ordinary Germans that the Slavs were enemies to him. BUT! Most of the command staff The Germans did not share his opinions. Believe me, I know what I’m saying (having a grandfather --- in your opinion a fascist, but in my opinion an ordinary German boy from Hitler Youth who defended his homeland)
    1. Kars
      Kars 21 October 2013 21: 58
      +5
      Quote: Den 11
      BUT! Most of the command staff of the Germans did not share his opinion

      They had enough future estates in a couple of hundred hectares,
      Quote: Den 11
      a German boy from the Hitler Youth who defended his homeland

      Well, yes, when Germany lost and came to its territory, but there was a war in Siberia at that moment, like he hadn’t fought.

      In fact, he got it with his Hitler Youth. For what they fought, they ran into it. They also did it mercifully and mercifully.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 21 October 2013 22: 19
        0
        Ukrainian, ... but you don’t know Ukrainian! And do you know, dear Kars, that the Gauleiter of East Prussia Erich Koch hung in his office (before the war) a map of a hypothetical transnational labor state that would unite Germany and the USSR on an equal footing?
        1. Kars
          Kars 21 October 2013 22: 32
          +3
          Quote: Den 11
          Ukrainian, ... but you don’t know Ukrainian

          I don’t know Russian, for that matter.

          Quote: Den 11
          Prussia Erich Koch in the office (before the war) hung a map of a hypothetical transnational labor state that would equally unite Germany and the USSR?

          What am I doing with this?
          And why this digression? Many Germans were upset and indignant when the victorious Wehrmacht took Kiev in 1941? Minsk? How many did not express approval?
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 21 October 2013 22: 59
            0
            Well, historians, both yours and ours, differ in their testimony. There are a lot of pictures of how Hans was met in Kiev with flowers and bread and salt, and there are pictures of the hanged "dissatisfied". And what is your opinion, KARS? From the side of today's Ukrainians
            1. Kars
              Kars 21 October 2013 23: 05
              +1
              Quote: Den 11
              . There are a bunch of pictures of how Hans met in Kiev with flowers and bread

              I’m not asking you about ours, but about the Germans. I’ll repeat the question
              Quote: Kars
              Many Germans were upset and indignant when the victorious Wehrmacht took Kiev in 1941? Minsk? How many did not express approval?

              Quote: Den 11
              What is your opinion, KARS? On the part of today's Ukrainians

              Regarding what? How did you meet? The opinion was simple that it was. Living in the Soviet Union of the 20s and 30s was not a carrot to eat. But this, again, is not the topic. The Germans are separate, the citizens of the USSR separately.
              Quote: Den 11
              ordinary German boy from the Hitler Youth who defended his homeland
              Here, too, I repeat the question --- go the war in a different way would he attack his homeland, would he protect the Urals?
              1. Day 11
                Day 11 21 October 2013 23: 18
                +3
                To be honest, I think that a lot --- didn’t Blank give Ukraine away to them? They believed that they had been deceived. Did you understand why? Crimea is a separate question (what do they call it in the course? And from what. Read the history of the question) . On the second question --- it’s hard to say, the propaganda worked there perfectly (however, like with us).
                1. Kars
                  Kars 22 October 2013 09: 46
                  +5
                  Quote: Den 11
                  To be honest

                  If honestly, I see that I’m messing around as soon as you can.
                  Therefore, I repeat.
                  The Germans deserved everything they got, and they were treated even too mercifully.
        2. Alex
          Alex 17 January 2014 22: 33
          +1
          Quote: Den 11
          And do you know, dear Kars, that the Gauleiter of East Prussia Erich Koch hung in his office (before the war) a map of a hypothetical transnational labor state that would unite Germany and the USSR on an equal footing?
          And how did this masterpiece of graphic art compare with the OST plan, which, unlike the implementation "hypothetical transnational labor state", come to life quite consistently and ominously?
    2. smile
      smile 21 October 2013 22: 29
      +3
      Day 11
      Great Dan!
      I see, you decided to fight with the whole forum? :))) Maybe well it in FIG, eh? Personally, for example, I do not regret that the Germans shot their allies, for me, so they all cherish it, and this and that .... but your statement that most of the command staff did not share Hitler’s attitude towards the Russians ... damn , well, you’re mistaken ... the fact that a significant part of the German generals did not like the most possessed is the true truth - he didn’t like them ... :))) But even about to kill Aloizievich, the German general was going to continue the war with us, trying to conclude a separate peace with our allies ... :))) It is not in vain that the former Hitler’s fighters very willingly after the end of the war accepted the preparations for the war with the Russians.
      And from your grandfather what to take is a boy and there is a boy. if he was brought up about school. that we are not people at all, that’s what he had such convictions ... that the Nazis burned Russian and Belarusian villages, honestly believing that by doing so they defend their homeland .... I don’t know what conclusions your grandfather later came to ... and by the way - it is curious how his worldview has changed and under the influence of what factors. And whether it has changed.

      By the way, what do you think, and who should have been considered as our Germans by all Germans protecting their Vaterlands near Kursk, the Caucasus and near Murmansk? Just do not be offended by me well? I treat you too well to be offended by me.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 21 October 2013 22: 50
        +3
        Volodya, honestly, it’s always nice to read you on the forum (even when I don’t agree with you). But it so happened ... What should I do? I’ll unsubscribe from your family (Internet, his mother). Under Kursk , in the Caucasus and near Murmansk they carried out orders and probably considered it a blessing for their people. Goebbels Departments thoroughly brainwashed them. Would you say they were so weak that they succumbed and broke? No, probably there were prerequisites for this (what do you think?) Have you read the interview? Argue with me Volodya, it’s always a pleasure to discuss with an intelligent person (with you). For God's sake, don’t attribute me to the Nazis. In one parameter, I won’t go there --- I have a Tatar wife!
        1. smile
          smile 21 October 2013 23: 22
          +2
          Day 11
          Well with that. that they washed their brains, I agree. And I will not argue about weakness - I just know what total propaganda is. Yes, and with the rest, it is in this comment of yours that I agree. Anyway, I was not going to argue here especially ...
          And you know, it’s never occurred to me to rank you as a Nazi. :)))...You will not get it. even if you ask! :))) And given that you, such a scoundrel, dared to marry a Tatar woman ... :))) so a certain SS department would not have approved of you ... would have approved :))) I will read the interview now.
        2. Firstvanguard
          Firstvanguard 25 October 2013 09: 42
          +3
          When a German (any other) soldier with weapons in his hands died under the tracks of the T-34, there can be no personal complaints against him, he is not the one making the policy. But when a Wehrmacht soldier slams a child’s butt, the question is not to politics, but to him personally! Among the KA fighters there were also cases of robbery and violence, but the KA was shot for this, despite the fact that they defended their Homeland. And therefore, I think Comrade. Stalin is too generous. He is credited with many mistakes and atrocities, and for me he was too humane to many.
    3. Alex
      Alex 17 January 2014 22: 30
      +2
      Quote: Den 11
      having a grandfather --- in your opinion a fascist, but in my opinion an ordinary German boy from the Hitler Youth who defended his homeland
      Buy , your germanophilia is quite well-known and quite understandable, but here it is an overkill. Or should we have stopped nobly on the German border and severely wagged our finger - "well, well, boy, this is not good" - a boy in military uniform and with a faustpatron in his hands? In the end, everyone has their own idols. I have the Komsomol, you have the Hitler Youth.