Military Review

There are ambitions, but no money in the budget: Russian military experts on the “new” Ukrainian army

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There are ambitions, but no money in the budget: Russian military experts on the “new” Ukrainian armyThe decree of the President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych on the transition of the Ukrainian army to a contractual basis has so far been a declaration, which is far from practical implementation. This opinion was expressed by a Russian military expert and editor-in-chief of National Defense magazine Igor Korotchenko to a REGNUM correspondent. According to him, the meaning of the transition to a contractual basis is explained by two important factors: the lack of resources for maintaining a large army and the lack of real military opponents.


"The Ukrainian army is already compact enough, but with budget money for its maintenance problems. In such a situation, the Ukrainian leadership decided to further reduce the number of troops, turning its army into a similar to the compact armed forces of Europe. In addition, Ukraine has no real opponents a larger army would have been necessary, "the interlocutor remarked, adding that in the decree of Yanukovych populism is also felt.

On the other hand, Korotchenko pointed out, the question of what is more expensive - a large “ordinary” army or a professional, but small, remains open.

On the question of whether the transition to the formation of the Armed Forces on a contract basis is a result of the natural development of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and its achievements on this path, Korotchenko answered negatively. "She has not achieved anything. Ukraine is still a country of transition, is in the process of transformation from the Ukrainian SSR to Ukraine as such. Unfortunately, it does not have much success here. It has ambitions but no money in budget, "he remarked.

According to the deputy editor-in-chief of the newspaper Zavtra, military expert Vladislav Shurygin, Ukraine is not so smooth with the absence of military problems. “Now there is no real threat, but in the medium term, it can arise in Crimea. It’s about ethnic and religious conflict that could flare up with the Crimean Tatars. But today, apparently, in the context of Kiev’s upheld political ambitions and an economy that does not allow for a large army “The assessments of the threats that the Ukrainian leadership has or wants to dispose of speak of a transition to a quantitatively meager professional army as the best option,” he noted.

Vladislav Shurygin also drew attention to the fact that the transition to a contract army was one of Viktor Yanukovych’s campaign promises made during his first election campaign. “Apparently, in the conditions of a very low rating, he decided to replenish his stock of popular sympathies,” the expert noted.

As for the declared goals of the transition, namely, the improvement of professionalism and the level of training of Ukrainian military personnel, Shurygin expressed rather skepticism. “A totally contract army is not a panacea for dilettantism. There are many countries in the world with completely“ professional ”, but in fact very poor armed forces. The Saudi Arabian armed forces, for example, are fully formed on a contract basis and leave much to be desired. In Israel, on the contrary - a mandatory call, and the level of training and combat readiness of the Israeli military does not cause anyone's doubts. As for the Ukrainian army, it is at a fairly low level today, "the deputy chief editor of Zavtra stressed.

Referring to the future of the Ukrainian Armed Forces after the transition to a contractual basis, Shurygin expressed the opinion that it will turn into a kind of contingent with two goals: formally "to be", as well as to participate in international peacekeeping operations; for example, in cooperation with NATO. "But here it should be noted that the transition to a contract basis is a serious, time-consuming process, which largely depends on the amount of funds. It took 10 years for the super-rich US, Germany spent 20 years for this process. Ukraine, if 70% Sun dissolves, warehouses weapon and hang locks in warehouses, can go on a contractual basis for the year ... on paper. In order to actually create a serious, combat-ready contract army, they will need to increase the current funding of the Armed Forces 2,5-3 times and keep that pace for at least 6-8 years, ”concluded Vladislav Shurygin.

As REGNUM reported earlier, on October 14, the President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, with his order, abolished universal conscription and transferred the army to a contract basis. Nevertheless, the decree states that in the internal troops will be recruited for military service. This decision was made due to the fact that, according to Yanukovych, modern military equipment requires professionals, they will serve under the contract, they will be in the hands of the security of the state.

According to the Minister of Defense of Ukraine, currently 180 thousand people serve in the country's army, of which 100 thousand serve in the logistics support units. It is expected that after the reform of the Ukrainian armed forces, the number of combat units will be 70 thousand people, and the logistics support - 50 thousand people.
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  1. Fin
    Fin 17 October 2013 09: 20 New
    +4
    the decree specifies that recruitment for military service will remain in the internal troops.

    How is that? We urge one, there is no other. Agendas will come selectively.
    Before the election, PR. It's too late Vitya!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 October 2013 09: 33 New
      +4
      Quote: Fin
      Before the election, PR. It's too late Vitya!

      He has already been promoted with the EU.
    2. Akim
      Akim 17 October 2013 10: 03 New
      +4
      Quote: Fin
      Agendas will come selectively.

      Now do you know how they come? What language do you blurt out! In Ukraine, 33 thousand are VVshnikom and 80% are crickets.
      1. Fin
        Fin 17 October 2013 10: 21 New
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        What language do you blurt out! In Ukraine, 33 thousand are VVshnikom and 80% are crickets.

        And the remaining 20%, how are they gained? By what principle are urgent summons sent?
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 17 October 2013 10: 29 New
        +6
        Quote: Akim
        In Ukraine, 33 thousand are VVshnik and 80% are crickets.
        And most of them scatter, without even waiting for the end of the contract. Anywhere, in the SBU, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, etc. There are many who want to have an irregular working week for one and a half thousand hryvnias? And the absolute lack of prospects?
        1. Akim
          Akim 17 October 2013 10: 37 New
          +2
          Quote: Misantrop
          There are many who want to have an irregular working week for one and a half thousand hryvnias? And the absolute lack of prospects?

          This is another question, about the service itself, but there was a caustic remark to the call. And the fact that they are hunchbacked for a penny is yes. But this is not the Armed Forces of Ukraine - so that they are not poured together for an example.
          1. Fin
            Fin 17 October 2013 10: 56 New
            +4
            Quote: Akim
            but there was a caustic remark to the call.

            Did you sleep badly? If there are 10 thousand draftees, and you need to call 2 thousand, how to select them ??? What’s stingy here?
            1. Akim
              Akim 17 October 2013 11: 06 New
              +4
              Quote: Fin
              If the draftees are 10 thousand, and you need to call 2 thousand

              And the medical board for what? And the professional selection? But the desire to serve?
              Maybe in Russia there is still a method to grab those who are caught, even from the university bench (this spring there was a story about this on Ren-TV), there was no shortage of Ukrainian military enlistment offices. Mowing became irrelevant. There is even a competition, like a university, 5-6 people per place.
              1. Fin
                Fin 17 October 2013 12: 20 New
                +1
                Quote: Akim
                Mowing became irrelevant. There is even a competition, like a university, 5-6 people per place.

                This is what lures them there? Any benefits after the service?
                1. Akim
                  Akim 17 October 2013 12: 43 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Fin
                  Any benefits after the service?

                  They are more likely to take public service. Many go to try their hand.
              2. Very old
                Very old 17 October 2013 13: 43 New
                +4
                AKIM, in the Chinese army the competition is even higher - there’s nothing to eat
                1. Akim
                  Akim 17 October 2013 14: 01 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Very old
                  There is nothing to eat

                  Well, of course, as soon as Ukraine does not break in. Any comparison is good, if only when farted, say that the neighbor stinks worse. Why are they constantly looking for a catch? Yes, if I all commented on quirky reason here about Russia, I would be a field marshal of negativity. Just not looking for a joke method. Do not know ask a question or speak essentially. I still remember the summer of 2005, when a married couple from Moscow was surprised at the Odessa store that there are plenty of products here and they are cheaper. Because the Russian media shouted that they say they were swelling with hunger and they brought food with them.
                  1. Corneli
                    Corneli 17 October 2013 14: 41 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Akim
                    I still remember the summer of 2005, when a married couple from Moscow was surprised at the Odessa store that they were full of products and they were cheaper. Because the Russian media shouted that they say they were swelling with hunger and they brought food with them.

                    Uh-huh) And in the middle of 2000 (I don't even remember exactly) a friend from Siberia (I was on a business trip) called me ... He asked what was going on with us, in the Russian media they say everything is a revolution, a civil war, battles in Kiev. I looked out the window, everything seemed to be quiet) But it turned out that the "honest" media covered some rallies in such a way (I don't even remember what they were dedicated to) laughing
                    But it was funny of course ...
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 17 October 2013 18: 43 New
            +3
            Quote: Akim
            This is another question about the service itself.
            This is all one and the same question. And the point here is not even in the unfortunate one and a half thousand hryvnias for an ordinary contractor. PROSPECTS NO. What perspective can a soldier say if a senior warrant officer (unit foreman) with 13 years of service still has no housing and receives as much as 200 hryvnias more? But what about lieutenant colonel VV in the colonel’s position - about 3 thousand hryvnias, is this a prospect? So they go only to first contract, for absolutely not connected with service reasons ... request
        2. Very old
          Very old 17 October 2013 13: 49 New
          +2
          Misantrop: however your answer is 5!
  2. major071
    major071 17 October 2013 09: 26 New
    +7
    Well, the Minister of Defense has already reported that the Naval Forces of Ukraine have completely transferred to the contract basis. Interestingly, how many people serve in the Ukrainian fleet?
    1. Akim
      Akim 17 October 2013 10: 04 New
      +4
      Quote: major071
      Interestingly, how many people serve in the Ukrainian fleet?

      With a coastal defense brigade, with separate anti-ship missile divisions and naval aviation, about 15 thousand.
    2. roial
      roial 17 October 2013 13: 52 New
      +2
      Well, for the navy and aviation, there are no problems with those who wish, there are claims to quality, but here it all depends on practice. The average salary is 6-7 yew. UAH

      But in Border Guard service with contractors is now a strain. She switched to contract service about 7 years ago. Average salary of 3 yew. UAH But due to the bestial attitude towards the military personnel, there is a tendency towards mass dismissal now (it has become the norm that the head of the outpost can change 2-4 duty stations in a year, the transition from outposts to departments with an increase in the guarded area and the number of personnel has led to the fact that lives in 50-90 ka from the duty station, due to the fact that the village is not able to provide housing for 70-160 families)
  3. HAM
    HAM 17 October 2013 09: 27 New
    +1
    In the rear units, there will not be enough "bast lines" for all.
  4. Egoza
    Egoza 17 October 2013 09: 31 New
    +3
    There are ambitions, but there is no money in the budget:

    Well, parents will buy a uniform, everything there is little, then they will also throw off weapons ... repeat So why budget money for the army to plan? wink In general, the last set is more and more in the BB. (Just in case, to help the police, if the people get excited)
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 17 October 2013 10: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: Egoza
      In general, the last set is more and more in the BB. (Just in case, to help the police, if the people get excited)
      Not therefore. Too beggarly salaries, no one willing to serve on a contract request
  5. Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 17 October 2013 10: 59 New
    +9
    very little time is left to be able to say with good reason about Ukraine: "All polymers have been fucked up ..."
  6. knn54
    knn54 17 October 2013 11: 41 New
    0
    Ukraine has done what Russia has not been able to do for over 20 years. If in Russia in the military registration and enlistment offices they paid for what would "otmazat" sons from military service, in Ukraine they paid for that. that would have given the opportunity to serve - the COMPETITION for conscription, according to the results of the autumn draft of 2010, the Ukrainian army was 6 people per 1 vacancy. All positions in the civil service are available to those who have served in the army. The "mowers" from the army could not get a normal job, and so on. And now the number of contractors is quite enough, although the queues at the military registration and enlistment offices are huge.
    Of course, the Ukrainian army does not need many tanks - the army is not going to shoot its parliament from tanks. Or bomb their cities ... But who will build summer cottages for the generals now?
    PS There won't be enough money for the Serdyukov reforms.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 17 October 2013 12: 17 New
      +4
      the army is not going to shoot its parliament from tanks. Or bomb your cities ...

      Explain? Although it is not necessary everything is clear))))))))
      And now the number of contractors is quite enough, although the queues for military enlistment offices are huge.

      Enough for what? To recruit an army of policemen? Or create normal aircraft that will actually solve problems?
      On paper, the Ukrainian Armed Forces succeeded! I agree! good
    2. Orik
      Orik 17 October 2013 13: 04 New
      +6
      There is truth in Yanukovych’s motivation, there really are no opponents, and in extreme cases, one can turn to the EU or Russia for help. They will help because This will be a better option than chaos in Ukraine. BUT this is de facto recognition of the overlord, as Europe recognized the United States.
      In today's Russia (I write today because for me Ukraine, Belarus and Russia have a single state) the situation is fundamentally different, we can either be an empire or go into oblivion, there is no third. Therefore, we have always been and will be forced to have a strong army; we have no other allies. There is no army, there will be no Russia, and then Ukraine and Belarus.
    3. roial
      roial 17 October 2013 13: 53 New
      +3
      I confirm this is a fact.

      Wishing to serve more than a set. comes to the fact that they give bribes to get to the service.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 17 October 2013 15: 30 New
        +2
        Quote: roial
        Wishing to serve more than a set. comes to the fact that they give bribes to get to the service.


        In the North Caucasus, they also give bribes to serve in the army.
        Sergei Rossomakhin, head of the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug military registration and enlistment office in the city of Raduzhny, says that up to 150 thousand rubles are paid for a call in Dagestan, and some young people leave for other regions of the Russian Federation, where they are registered and require a call. “In November-December 29 such guests arrived in Raduzhny, May-June - another 18. One made a scandal at all, demanded an immediate call, called the police,”
        link

    4. Misantrop
      Misantrop 17 October 2013 18: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: knn54
      Ukraine has done what Russia has not been able to do for over 20 years. If in Russia in the military registration and enlistment offices they paid for what would "otmazat" sons from military service, in Ukraine they paid for that. to give the opportunity to serve
      That’s for sure, SUCH not only Russia, but also nobody else on the planet. Only in this power in the military enlistment office they demand to pay for EVERYTHING - both for the excuse from the draft, and for entering the service. Moreover, the TOTAL AMOUNT is ABSOLUTELY the same laughing
  7. ed65b
    ed65b 17 October 2013 11: 52 New
    0
    the army is small.
  8. komsomolets
    komsomolets 17 October 2013 12: 22 New
    +6
    Something I can’t believe in all of this. Some kind of bullshit, Ukraine normally couldn’t contain an army on conscription, but here it’s such a luxury. Expensive pleasure is a contract army, it’s not for Senka’s hat. And who will paint the fences, do renovations, weed vegetables, feed pigs? In short, newfangled bullshit all this.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 17 October 2013 12: 24 New
      0
      Here your countryman unsubscribed. So everything is as it is written! Believe
      Ukraine has done what Russia has not been able to do for over 20 years. If in Russia in the military registration and enlistment offices they paid for what would "otmazat" sons from military service, in Ukraine they paid for that. that would have given the opportunity to serve - the COMPETITION for conscription, according to the results of the autumn draft of 2010, the Ukrainian army was 6 people per 1 vacancy. All positions in the civil service are available to those who have served in the army. The "mowers" from the army could not get a normal job, and so on. And now the number of contractors is quite enough, although the queues at the military registration and enlistment offices are huge.
    2. svp67
      svp67 17 October 2013 13: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: komsomolets
      And who will paint the fences, do renovations, weed vegetables, feed pigs?

      Called to the INTERNAL TROOPS and the STATE SPECIAL TRANSPORT SERVICE.
  9. komsomolets
    komsomolets 17 October 2013 12: 31 New
    +7
    Well, the land can write whatever he wants, only I have tested the contract service in my own skin, all at my own expense (for which it is needed), and frank fraud at the expense of the queues at the military registration and enlistment offices. Ukraine will not be able to pay such money (promise from 2500 to 4000 UAH ), if the cost of living is about 1100 UAH.
  10. atalef
    atalef 17 October 2013 12: 37 New
    +3
    Yes, Ukraine does not need an army (in the form of Russia), it has neither such tasks nor ambitions, and it is stupid to spend money in a non-producing sector (at such a time). Therefore, I think the decision is absolutely correct. and you don’t need to tell me about the global threats, I remember before 2000 the whole world was shaking from the "mistake of 2000" with a cry of all computers. the nets will fall, the earth will perish. Countries have invested billions in correcting what, in general, no one has seen, I liked Kazakhstan the most in this sense, they invested only $ 5000 and then in advertising, like nothing will happen, everything will be ok. And who was right? Those suckers who buried billions and Smart Kazakhstan? So I say, if someone is going to attack Ukraine (and it should be at least one of the superpowers) nothing will help it in any way (just as mountains of weapons did not help either Hussein or Gaddafi), and to spend all the country's resources on this is stupid and it is useless, they will live quietly, not rock the boat, join the EU or NATO and, believe me, leave them alone.
    can you scream as much as you want, without an army there is no country, but give an example, who can attack Ukraine at all or is it going to attack? And if not, why waste money to waste.
    1. komsomolets
      komsomolets 17 October 2013 12: 47 New
      +3
      Well this turns out - take off the fence around the house, let the dogs loose, remove the locks from the doors, all the same, decent people are neighbors, no one will climb. So what do you think?
      1. atalef
        atalef 17 October 2013 12: 50 New
        -1
        Quote: komsomolets
        Well this turns out - take off the fence around the house, let the dogs loose, remove the locks from the doors, all the same, decent people are neighbors, no one will climb. So what do you think?

        This means that a fence and a lock (so that the rodents would not climb) is quite enough, and building another Chinese wall, you can bend faster than from a hypothetical occupation.
        1. komsomolets
          komsomolets 17 October 2013 13: 17 New
          +2
          Ukrainians are an economic people by nature, and therefore we need such a fence and it’s not a shame to show people what it is, and it was dumb to climb over it.
          1. atalef
            atalef 17 October 2013 14: 17 New
            +3
            Quote: komsomolets
            Ukrainians are an economic people by nature, and therefore we need such a fence and it’s not a shame to show people what it is, and it was dumb to climb over it.

            ***
            Petro sits, eating a dummy, a neighbor passes by:
            - Mykhailo, come in pebbles to pee
            - So your dog is untied: face:
            - Otozh D
            1. The comment was deleted.
    2. HAM
      HAM 17 October 2013 13: 24 New
      +1
      Romania, Hungary, Poland, few, those who have claims, well, Russia, hypothetically ..
      1. roial
        roial 17 October 2013 14: 00 New
        +2
        Well, there are complaints, and what ???

        How much will Russia reach the campaign in Georgia (in monetary terms) ?? Well, probably a few billion rubles.

        The claims are adequate to the costs that they incur during the war ???
      2. atalef
        atalef 17 October 2013 19: 24 New
        +2
        Quote: HAM
        Romania, Hungary, Poland, few, those who have claims, well, Russia, hypothetically ..

        That is strange. from Romania. Poland and Hungary - I haven’t heard any complaints. but from Russia they are not at all hypothetical from the Crimea to Sevostopol.
        Therefore, I say. What Ukraine millionth army to keep? If they attack (who makes a claim), it will not help in the same way. And why should they waste money?
    3. Corneli
      Corneli 17 October 2013 14: 30 New
      +2
      Quote: atalef
      can you scream as much as you want, without an army there is no country, but give an example, who can attack Ukraine at all or is it going to attack? And if not, why waste money to waste.

      A little later, when "necessary" and "knowledgeable" people appear, read about Romania, Turkey, Poland ... laughing
  11. komsomolets
    komsomolets 17 October 2013 12: 39 New
    +5
    Yes, and about the Russian reforms, ask any Ukrainian conrabass, they all envy the Russian army, our army didn’t even dream of such reforms. How many new technologies have been adopted in recent years, who saw it, did anyone master it? a terrible military secret, our army is in deep w ..., and there is no urine to get out.
    1. KEKS44
      KEKS44 17 October 2013 14: 15 New
      +2
      Quote: komsomolets
      I will reveal a terrible military secret, our army in deep w ...,

      Personally, I did not doubt it.
  12. runway
    runway 17 October 2013 13: 22 New
    +2
    Is this our problem?
    Are we all right already? Instead of focusing on building their own armed forces, our military experts are discussing the armies of neighboring states .... Ukraine will certainly not abandon these arguments from an alliance with European states.
  13. knn54
    knn54 17 October 2013 13: 55 New
    +1
    I will answer the comments.
    1. Three years ago, I visited (in Kharkov) two district military enlistment offices, there were lines. Yes, and Russian experts do not deny this.
    2.Ukraine is a "zablokova land", therefore there are special requirements for the army of a neutral state - there are no allies ...
    3. Regarding the contracts, ALL of my friends visited peacekeeping missions and earned quite good money (by our standards). The conversion equipment is left abroad — the UN compensates as new.
    Now about the army. The Ukrainian military-industrial complex is able to provide its own army ~ by 40%, no one will give the rest of the currency.
    Well, BB? Someone should guard (and not only) the khatynki of those in power - "the soldiers at the DACHI".
    As for the contract, as such (maybe I’m wrong), counterattacks are, in fact, mercenaries. This is where you have to dance.
    1. komsomolets
      komsomolets 17 October 2013 21: 47 New
      0
      And now let all your friends say how much they had to unfasten in bucks to go to the war to make peace. I in 2007 called the amount of $ 2000.
  14. Little Russia
    Little Russia 17 October 2013 15: 00 New
    +2
    I fully admit the presence of lines in our military enlistment offices. But here, in Kharkov, I did not notice this. I believe that the line is where youth have no prospects at all: neither for normal employment, nor for building their future. Surely, some part of the youth goes there for reasons of ideology or hoping to join the peacekeepers and earn, but not much. Those who served in the army have looked at their contractors and know the pros and cons. I will name only two: domestic unemployment and low salaries.
  15. Ckyf
    Ckyf 19 October 2013 20: 51 New
    0
    Quote: atalef

    That is strange. from Romania. Poland and Hungary - I haven’t heard any complaints ... from Russia are not at all hypothetical from the Crimea to Sevostopol. .
    Fr. Zmeiny Romania took away from Ukraine 4 years ago. Now name non-hypothetical annexations of the lands of Ukraine by Russia over the past 50 years.