Military Review

Combat "grave" of infantry

58
Combat "grave" of infantry

Kurganmashzavod loses its monopoly position in the Russian market for BMP. Chance to the company gives the development of civil direction


For the first time in stories NPK "Uralvagonzavod" (UVZ, Nizhny Tagil) is going to enter the market of infantry fighting vehicles (BMP). At the exhibition Russia Arms Expo-2013, the corporation presented a prototype of the newest Atom BMP, which it develops in conjunction with the French company Renault Trucks Defense (specializes in the production of military trucks). The parties plan to start mass production in a year or two.

The concept of "Atom" came up three months ago. Armored vehicles will be equipped with X-NUMX-millimeter automatic cannon of domestic production C-57 (previous models of BMPs installed 60-millimeter cannon), protected with ceramic armor panels from bullets and fragments, and equipped with a warning system about laser radiation (some missiles are guided by laser illumination). The BMP will be able to transport eight fully equipped fighters in the troop compartment. According to project manager Andrei Novinsky, the level of crew protection, depending on the configuration of the vehicle, can vary in the direction of both amplification and weakening, with a simultaneous increase in firepower (five different configurations).

The development of the UVZ can seriously shake the position of another Ural enterprise - Kurganmashzavod (KMZ), the only Russian manufacturer of BMPs so far. In recent years, the plant already shows unstable financial results due to the lack of large state defense orders and unfavorable external conditions. The appearance of a strong competitor will be very inappropriate.

Infantry will not pass

The share of sales of special equipment in the revenue structure of KMZ is relatively high - 81% (7,63 billion rubles). Almost all deliveries in the 2012 year fell on the BMP-3. This tracked vehicle was developed in 1987, the design bureau of the plant and is designed to transport personnel to the epicenter of hostilities and fire support of infantry. It is equipped with a 100-millimeter gun - launcher (40 high-explosive fragmentation projectiles and six anti-tank guided missiles are included in the ammunition), 30-millimeter automatic cannon (ammunition - 500 ammunition) and three 7,62-mm Kalashnikov machine guns Holds in the troop compartment up to seven infantrymen. The cost of one unit is about 90 million rubles.

From 2010, the Ministry of Defense refused to purchase these machines (the share of the state defense order for the BMP in the CMH revenue structure for 2009 a year is 26%). Vladimir Popovkin, who was then the first deputy minister of defense, called the BMP-3 "combat" grave "of infantry," and said that the Russian army did not need them. According to the director of the Institute of Political and Military Analysis, Alexander Khramchikhin, the concept of technology is morally obsolete. This is a weak protection against grenade launcher shots and mines fragments. The layout of the troop compartment is also poorly designed - the infantryman is uncomfortable getting out of the car.

Despite these shortcomings, products are in demand in the global arms market. In 2012, KMZ continued deliveries of BMP-3 to Venezuela (at least 16 units) and Kuwait (minimum five units), shipped the first batches of BMP-3 Marine Corps Indonesia (ordered 37 units, contract amount - 114 million dollars) and BMP-3 the armed forces of Azerbaijan (ordered 100 units). According to experts, the high demand is due to the authority of the domestic defense products in the international armored vehicles market. However, there is a negative trend: Russia is gradually losing traditional buyers. weapons (For more, see “The Threat of the“ Arab Spring ””, “E-U” No. 38 from 23.09.2013). The growth of competition from foreign equipment (American Bradley, German Puma, British Warrior, etc.) can also slow down export volumes.

Attempts to modify the BMP-3 were unsuccessful: the designers did not succeed in drastically increasing the security of the crew and the assault force while maintaining fire power. Therefore, KMZ began the development of a fundamentally new BMP based on the multi-purpose tracked platform “Kurganets-25” (the start of serial production is scheduled for 2016 year) under the order of the Ministry of Defense. Supposedly, it will be equipped with the 30-2 X-mm automatic cannon, the Kornet-EM anti-tank guided missile launcher, and the Kord X-mm robotized machine gun. The machine will receive a reinforced modular type armor protection: the crew and troops will be in the armored capsule.

Wheels vs. Caterpillars

However, the prospects of the project "Kurganets-25" remain in question. Start of mass production can be delayed indefinitely: KMZ has postponed the start several times already. In addition, military experts are not sure that new products will be in demand in the foreign and domestic markets. The armies of most countries of the world are gradually abandoning tracked platforms and are switching to light wheeled armored vehicles, the main advantages of which are good driving performance on normal roads along with a long engine life (drawbacks are regular tire damage and poor wheel protection against shots). The Ministry of Defense also announced plans to introduce vehicles into the troops on the chassis, partially replacing the tracked ones.

The car for the Atom infantry from UVZ, which is a modified chassis of the French VBCI armored personnel carrier with the wheel formula 8Х8 (developed by Renault Trucks Defense) and the domestic combat division, is aimed at a new niche. Another competitor is the Boomerang wheeled platform project (supervised by the Moscow Military Industrial Company, the start of mass production is scheduled for 2016 year).

Cut the swords into plowshares

Thus, KMZ was in a difficult situation. Its current production is not in demand in the domestic market and has not very good prospects in the world (primarily due to the ongoing Arab revolutions). The developed tracked platform of the Kurganets-25 BMP will experience stiff competition from wheeled combat vehicles. For example, the authorities of the United Arab Emirates (the largest in the post-Soviet history of the foreign buyer BMP-3) have already announced their intention to acquire only BMPs on the chassis abroad.

Another problem is the loss of the status of the only domestic manufacturer of infantry vehicles, which may lead to a reduction in export deliveries. Often, the preferences of foreign buyers are due to foreign policy conditions - if they have competitive foreign peers, they buy Russian equipment, because it is “Russian”. Therefore, the status gives the company a number of advantages.

However, the KMZ has the potential: the plant produces not only infantry fighting vehicles, but also airborne combat vehicles (BMD, the design of the equipment allows to parachute from aircraft), which are not yet in demand from buyers. Disputes around them have not subsided for several years. The command of the airborne troops of the Russian Federation is in favor of acquiring tracked BMD-4 to replace outdated armored vehicles of previous models, while a number of high-ranking officials of the Ministry of Defense are categorically against: in their opinion, the new equipment does not meet modern requirements due to weak security. Depending on the outcome of this discussion, the KMZ may either receive a large state defense order, or completely lose the Russian arms market before the start of serial production of Kurgants-25.

How can the plant compensate for possible losses? In our opinion, an increase in the share of civilian products in the revenue structure can give a chance: in the past three years, it has been 19 - 21%. The company produces tracked transport vehicles Chetra TM-140 (for transportation of shift shifts in off-road conditions) and mini loaders MKSM (for municipal and construction work).
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  1. 0255
    0255 16 October 2013 15: 12
    0
    with such dimensions "Atom" will be an excellent target for an RPG. Plus, there are no loopholes in the troop compartment through which the infantry could leave the damaged BMP.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 16 October 2013 16: 11
      29
      with such dimensions "Atom" will be an excellent target for an RPG. Plus, there are no loopholes in the troop compartment through which the infantry could leave the damaged BMP.

      The assignment of loopholes in the BMP you understand is not true.

      Do you even read what you write? laughing
      Or not a reader, but a writer? laughing
      After all, aren't the Khattabychi infantrymen all the same to massively leave the wounded BMP through the loopholes? laughing
    2. military
      military 16 October 2013 16: 47
      23
      Quote: 0255
      there are no loopholes in the airborne squad through which the infantry could leave the lined BMP.

      she and the Kingstones do not have to "drown" if necessary ... laughing
      1. matross
        matross 16 October 2013 17: 37
        +9
        Quote: military
        she and the Kingstones do not have to "drown" if necessary ...

        Maybe there is, just not visible in the photo. laughing
        And a retractable mast with a sail, to save diesel fuel in windy weather ...
        Yes ... to the author of the topic about the loopholes - offset. Killed to death laughing good
      2. Prapor-527
        Prapor-527 16 October 2013 19: 20
        +1
        And the Kingstones will not help "this" - "it" does not sink ... negative
        1. Prapor-527
          Prapor-527 16 October 2013 19: 49
          0
          A minus for calling it GOVNO "it"?
    3. sven27
      sven27 16 October 2013 17: 37
      +3
      Quote: 0255
      with such dimensions "Atom" will be an excellent target for an RPG. Plus, there are no loopholes in the troop compartment through which the infantry could leave the damaged BMP.

      always a pleasure to hear the opinion of a professional laughing
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 16 October 2013 15: 18
    38
    Material about this car was already on the site. And he was met by a friendly wave of criticism ...

    Honestly, I don’t understand you, brothers ... Domestic BMPs and armored personnel carriers are bad for you, and you criticize them for their poor security. Please, this car is perhaps an order of magnitude higher in protection ...
    Criticize domestic 30 mm artillery systems for the fact that they lag behind foreign counterparts in a number of indicators ... Here, 57 mm, and they will "eat" any light armored vehicles and low-flying aircraft of any potential enemy ...
    You do not like the arch-Spartan conditions in our infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers ... There is enough space for the landing and the crew ...
    Ah, yes !!! ... A tall silhouette! .. And this is already a consequence of a larger armor volume and a more solid gun mount. As they say - everything has its consequences ... So choose - either with the most minimal comfort and protection, but low, or higher, but more spacious and more impressive ... Yes, and the gun also inspires all respect. Even a Swedish BMP with a 40 mm Bofors pales in comparison with it ...

    And the fact that they developed together with the French is a small sin. And if all these developments will be beneficial and will save the lives of soldiers, then I will only "FOR !!!" ...
    At the sim I finish my match. You can minus ...
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 16 October 2013 15: 26
      +4
      There are also Kurganets and Boomerang. Why the Atom is opposed to Kurgan in the article, when most likely the Boomerang will become its main competitor - is not clear. True, it is not clear yet whether the Boomerang will be closer to the western ones - protected (including from mines), but not floating armored personnel carriers like the same Atom, or a continuation of our floating classics with some layout differences.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 16 October 2013 16: 18
        +3
        There are also Kurganets and Boomerang. Why the Atom is opposed to Kurgan in the article, when most likely the Boomerang will become its main competitor - is not clear. True, it is not clear yet whether the Boomerang will be closer to the western ones - protected (including from mines), but not floating armored personnel carriers like the same Atom, or a continuation of our floating classics with some layout differences.

        Here is +100500.
        It seems like all serious people saw in UVZ + Renault a threat (or a veiled admission of problems) for Boomerang, and not for Kurganets.

        Well, there are also rumors :-) that a BO with 57mm Petrel stubbornly pushes on Kurganets, Boomerang and Armata (BMP) instead of the Age (well, or with it).
        For me, given that the 57mm BO also does not fit into the case (judging by the posters and the fact that its Burevestnikovtsy RCWS dubbed), this is an alternative. Add 4 PU Cornet and generally super.
      2. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 16 October 2013 17: 37
        +3
        Quote: Basileus
        There are also Kurganets and Boomerang.

        So far, as far as I know, do not exist yet. At least, that at least one object on this topic began to pass tests was not reported ...
        Quote: Basileus
        Why is Atom opposed to Kurgan in the article,

        It is normal practice to counter counterparts ...
        Quote: Basileus
        when most likely its main competitor will be Boomerang

        Perhaps so ... But "Atom" is classified as an infantry fighting vehicle (albeit a wheeled one) and it means he is a "classmate" of "Kurganets" ... But "Boomerang" is an armored personnel carrier ...
        Quote: Basileus
        True, it is not clear yet whether the Boomerang will be closer to the western ones - protected (including from mines), but not floating armored personnel carriers of the same type as the Atom, or a continuation of our floating classics with some layout differences

        Judging by the earlier mock-ups, it will be floating. Water movers are visible on them very clearly ...
    2. Rustam
      Rustam 16 October 2013 15: 37
      +3
      The leaders of KMZ should rather sit in places not so remote for fraud with the state defense order in 2010

      BMP-3 as sadly already does not meet the requirements of the 21st century, and it is inappropriately amuse yourself
      and talk about success in export contracts for our loans (Venezuela, Indonesia)
      The success of the BMP-3 was in the early 90s when it was possible to conclude a landmark export contract with the UAE - at the moment the UAE is intensely looking for a replacement for its BMP-3

      Иinteresting how are you doing with the multi-unit 10 bmd4m for the airborne forces (the price for which is faster than inflation, or is the KBP guilty, are they of a different opinion and unflattering about the gentlemen of the Kurganmash leaders)? not a spirit, let's see what will happen to Kurgan and will it be?

      here is my previous post

      Rustam July 23, 2013 17:01 | Paratroopers will receive less BMD-4M due to the "collapse of cooperation"
      I won’t say much, even there are no emotions — I spoke about gentlemen from the Kurganmashzavod earlier, and more than once

      all my predictions come true, but the production was transferred from Volgograd to Upyryam (those who promise us to do the Kurgan)

      yes say that

      are those who participated in fraud in 2010 under the state defense order
      those who did not deliver 10 bmd4m (In 2010)
      those who had a debt for short delivery of 75 BMP-3 units in the RA
      those who squealed and were against the purchase of foreign armored vehicles in the west

      These are those who first promise in three boxes, conclude state defense orders, and then talk about the loss of cooperation
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 16 October 2013 15: 59
        +5
        Quote: Rustam
        currently the UAE is looking for a replacement for its BMP-3

        ?
        They are going to change only half of the fleet, and the condition for the tender is to install the BMP-3 tower on a wheeled vehicle. Here it is more a matter of operational mobility, rather than the shortcomings of our car.
        1. Rustam
          Rustam 16 October 2013 16: 11
          +1
          Lopatov
          They are going to change only half of the park


          Yes? And I thought and heard that it’s all, okay, I agree

          But in my opinion, the BMP-3 at the moment does not draw on a 21st century car, and even more so with the leadership of Kurganmash - who are now felling BMD4M supplies - raising the price and pushing the blame on allies

          I can’t say the only way out of Kurganets-Nitsche, Medvedev said about 16 Kurganis on May 9 in Moscow, you can hardly believe it
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 16 October 2013 16: 31
            +4
            Stamping new ones makes no sense. Refuse standing in armament, remelted on aluminum bowls instead of modernization, all the more so.
          2. bask
            bask 16 October 2013 16: 59
            +1
            Quote: Rustam
            I can’t say the only way out of Kurganets-Nitsche, Medvedev said about 16 Kurganis on May 9 in Moscow, you can hardly believe it

            Hello everybody.
            Pill a pill and all will not be cut. Probably with today's power it will be so. Full economic impotence, corruption and inability (unwillingness) to govern the state. At each level they work only in their own pocket. The interests of the state are sideways.
            Now on the topic:
            Combat "grave" of infantry

            As I understood from the article, no one has ever experienced it yet.
            And on which, wheeled or GShassis, to create a BMP-Average, the question is obvious.
            On a caterpillar and wheeled chassis with unification of units and assemblies at the level of 75%. The question is in technology, can our military-industrial complex do this. At least with the help of the same French.
    3. avt
      avt 16 October 2013 16: 03
      +4
      Quote: Chicot 1
      And he was met by a friendly wave of criticism ...

      And correctly met, which of these armored personnel carriers BMP? ,, The armies of most countries of the world are gradually abandoning tracked platforms and switching to light wheeled armored vehicles, the main advantages of which are good driving performance on normal roads along with a long engine resource (disadvantages - regular tire damage and poor protection of wheels from shots). The Ministry of Defense also announced plans to introduce equipment on a chassis into the troops, partially replacing the tracked one. "-------- This is real sabotage, Serdyukov's Popovkin belch, transferring the BMP to wheels and dissecting it along the roads like all" civilized "ones. already popular with references to the tests carried out, the advantage of the tracks on infantry fighting vehicles and Shamans was proved by the experience of battles from the wheels, as from the main means, it bounces off and clings to the tracks - BMD-4 and "Shell" wants. Another thing is armored personnel carriers, which are practically from the first lines should be eliminated and fulfill their main function of a vehicle in conditions of increased sabotage danger, respectively, protected by new standards.
      Quote: Chicot 1
      Criticize domestic 30 mm artillery systems for the fact that they lag behind foreign counterparts in a number of indicators ... Here, 57 mm, and they will "eat" any light armored vehicles and low-flying aircraft of any potential enemy ...

      Yeah, likely and expected. Dead-end road, then you will require 76mm and further. I said and will repeat - the concept of "Bakhchi" is thought out much better and for years to come, nothing better will come up, especially over the hill, just upgrade the ammunition and control systems. Normal package of various weapons, to In addition, a completely worked out unified system - install it even on the BMP, even on the heavy version, on the BMD.
      Quote: Chicot 1
      Even a Swedish BMP with a 40 mm Bofors pales in comparison with it ...

      In, the main picture from the exhibition surpassed - 57 mm installed. I forgot to add - here are some already in the Finnish armored personnel carrier orders our triad, well, and we are catching up with the West 57 mm and are happy that more than 40.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 16 October 2013 16: 21
        +2
        In, the main picture from the exhibition surpassed - 57 mm installed.

        Do you not believe in the existence of hundreds of CV-90s with 40mm Bofors? belay
        1. avt
          avt 16 October 2013 16: 39
          +2
          Quote: cdrt
          Do you not believe in the existence of hundreds of CV-90s with 40mm Bofors?

          Quote: avt
          I forgot to add - here are some already in the Finnish armored personnel carrier orders our triad, well, and we are catching up with the West 57 mm and are happy that more than 40.

          Quote: avt
          I have spoken and will repeat - the concept of "Bakhchi" has been thought out much better and for years to come, nothing better will be invented, especially over the hill, just upgrade the ammunition and control systems. A normal package of various weapons, besides, a completely developed unified system - install at least on BMP, even a heavy version, on BMD.

          Replied ? Or do you think that I believe that they can’t put 40mm on an armored personnel carrier? It’s even insulting, you know, and not only for me request but also for asking the question.
          1. zanoza
            zanoza 16 October 2013 17: 09
            +5
            Looking at similar pictures of Russian roads, I want to "goslings"....
            1. zanoza
              zanoza 16 October 2013 17: 15
              +2
              Chernozem, this is our quality mark for fertile "mud" request What kind of wheels are there?
            2. bask
              bask 16 October 2013 18: 01
              0
              Quote: zanoza
              Looking at such pictures of Russian roads, I want a "goose" ....

              Quote: zanoza
              What kind of wheels are there?

              A wheeled, articulated technique will pass. (Vidio with Kirovets already 2 times laid out, now import).
        2. bask
          bask 16 October 2013 17: 10
          +2
          Quote: cdrt
          Do you not believe in the existence of hundreds of CV-90s with 40mm Bofors?

          I believe, and a CV-90 with a 40 mm gun has been released, more than a thousand.
          Quote: cdrt
          Already in the Finnish armored personnel carrier orders our triad, well, and we are catching up with the West 57 mm and are happy that more than 40.

          I agree AVT ,,, Bahcha ,, now on the BMP, the most advanced combat module.
          If there is, world-class technology they need to put on domestic technology.
          But the 57 mm S-60 caliber is good, you just need to conduct military tests and identify the winner.
          1. avt
            avt 16 October 2013 17: 28
            +2
            Quote: bask
            But the 57 mm S-60 caliber is good

            Yes, it's not that good. Need or not need? Here’s the Question, so far no one has really said it, and all the more reasoned has not justified it with references to the TTX. What can only be done with such a caliber and ammunition that it does not overlap with the triad? Moreover, how much does it cost to adopt a new system compared to, say, the evolutionary modernization of an existing and commercially available module? Well, except that it looks beautifully long barrel with a muzzle brake like a long slim legs in a blonde with ... well, in general it is clear.
            Quote: carbofo
            But, in principle, I see no obstacle to not putting a 57 mm gun on the BMP (we put 100mm + 30mm!), To make several interchangeable gun modules on the BMP 3,

            Which confirms the above, there is one obstacle - expediency, taking into account the criterion cost - efficiency. Prove with specific facts the usefulness and the fact that it is better, "Bakhchi" where "I carry everything with me" and it is not necessary to refer to the fact that it is not his "specifics" task, for this you need something else, the first I admit that I am wrong.
            1. bask
              bask 16 October 2013 18: 09
              +1
              Quote: avt
              efficiency. Prove with specific facts the usefulness and the fact that it is better, "Bakhchi" where "I carry everything with me" and it is not necessary to refer to the fact that it is not his "specifics" task, for this you need something else, the first I admit that I am wrong.

              I won’t prove anything. It’s pointless to refer to world experience. Because we have BMPs, they can go in the first line (as was the case in Chechnya 1.2.).
              Therefore (your words), a 100 mm gun doesn’t hurt when.
              With a triad module, not just a BMP, but also a light assault tank.
              On the BTR ,, Boomerang 8/8, the 57 mm DBMS would be very good. Remote, so as not to eat up a place in the BTR.
      2. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 16 October 2013 17: 49
        +2
        I am a supporter of a differentiated approach to choosing a base for military equipment. However, the goose is more sympathetic to me ... But still, as far as possible I try to be as objective as possible ...
        Quote: avt
        And rightly met, which of this APC BMP?

        Of course, the will is yours ... But shouldn't I remind you of the Bryansk "Object 1200"? .. But it passed all the conditions of the competition, and lagged behind the future BMP-1 only in terms of cross-country ability. Yes, and even then not by much ...

        For the rest of your paragraphs, do not blame me, but I will not answer. They are all from the field of rhetoric, and washed over more than once or twice. I just don't want to repeat myself ...

        "Object 1200". BMP or armored personnel carrier? ... wink
        1. avt
          avt 16 October 2013 18: 00
          +1
          Quote: Chicot 1
          "Object 1200". BMP or armored personnel carrier? ...

          request Well ...? It has long been declassified and shown well in the documentary WHY they did not adopt this option and, by the way, the combined tracked-wheeled one.
          Quote: Chicot 1
          Yes, and that is not much ...

          Oh oh That's just in comparative frames of tests on the same obstacles, everything is clearly visible.
          Quote: Jarserge
          Those who served me will understand that the wheels behind the tanks will not be able to go fully, well, it’s not given to them. It is all the more difficult to imagine a wheeled, well-protected infantry fighting vehicle with a cross-country ability not corresponding to Red Square.
          I’m sure that he didn’t even serve in an armored car, but objectively weighing all the facts for and against and openly looking at things.
          request On this and finish.
        2. bask
          bask 16 October 2013 18: 24
          +1
          Quote: Chicot 1
          I am a supporter of a differentiated approach to choosing a base for military equipment. However, the goose is more sympathetic to me.

          I would call it modularity in design.
          And again, (economically very profitable) if they could WOULD, make on wheelset and GSH.
          Quote: Chicot 1
          But don't I remind you about the Bryansk "Object 1200"? .. But it passed all the conditions of the competition,

          A breakthrough was a car that was far ahead of the BTR-60 in all performance characteristics.
          Why they didn’t adopt it as an armored personnel carrier is not clear. In the West in the 60s there was nothing like that yet.
          1. bask
            bask 16 October 2013 18: 41
            +1
            The Belgians ,, SIBMAS, then either the South African RATEL., Or vice versa, used the line-up ,, Object 1200 ,,.

            / img] [/ center]
    4. carbofo
      carbofo 16 October 2013 16: 12
      +6
      Quote: Chicot 1
      I don’t understand you, brothers ... Domestic BPM and armored personnel carriers are bad for you, and you criticize them for their poor security

      In a lot easier, you need to look at the use of infantry fighting vehicles in Syria, draw conclusions and modify the machine, 30 mm is more than enough for any targets, except for heavy infantry fighting vehicles. But in principle, I see no obstacle to not putting a 57 mm gun on the BMP (100mm + 30mm - they set it!), Make several interchangeable gun modules on the BMP 3, re-arrange the hull to strengthen protection against RPGs, reduce the landing force in the end.
      As for the silhouette, in one clip in Syria, the tank closed an alley and an infantry fighting vehicle passed behind it, so it’s not higher than the tank, maybe a little bit, but the tank almost completely covered it with the hull, it seems to me that Syrian experience should be invested in the construction.
      I saw tanks with nets welded onto the tower, why not check how effective this method is and do it already at a good technical level, send to Syria. and check how it works, and we will save the lives of the guys and they will respect us even more, and this should be done quickly and efficiently in the first place, bad sides, 1000 sets in a quarter, with improved fasteners and survivability.
      Yes, even 200 sets, in the order of military operation at our expense, with a mandatory return upon disrepair, and to study, I think it is worth it.
    5. bask
      bask 16 October 2013 17: 42
      +2
      Quote: Chicot 1

      And the fact that they developed together with the French is a small sin. And if all these developments will be beneficial and will save the lives of soldiers, then I will only "FOR !!!" ...

      I would say Chicot, now in the French and partly in the Germans all hope.
      Only the French can sell the latest full cycle technology.
      Everything is produced by French companies, with technology developed, from the country.
      If the share of US, or the Angles, then you will get an embargo.
      Swiss, Austrian, Swedish, Finnish, South African, manufacturers of MOWAG, Haggluds, and others entering into international concerns controlled by amers.
      BAE Systems, General Dynfmics, etc.
      I repeat, there are many private firms that are not part of the concern, but possessing technology, international cooperation is needed.
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 16 October 2013 21: 45
        +2
        Yes, you can develop anything, it would be sense
    6. Falconne
      Falconne 18 November 2016 15: 05
      0
      In principle, there is logic. But why not tracked?
  4. Serg 122
    Serg 122 16 October 2013 15: 22
    +2
    It's funny .... Why are there windows / loopholes in the "grave" ?! It remains only to paint in red ... fool
  5. alone
    alone 16 October 2013 15: 40
    +2
    It’s hard to say anything good or bad about BMPs. Of course it’s normal, it’s how it will behave on tests, and then it will be possible to judge so badly and so good.

    as for height, I’ll say this: for a good grenade launcher, it makes no difference that the car is high or low.
  6. awg75
    awg75 16 October 2013 16: 14
    +1
    on this crap it will be difficult to get out of the RPG .... and on the armor the infantry will be like crows on a poplar, I don’t want to shoot ..... the resistance to turning seems to be complete p .... on this machine you need to send Taburetkin and Medvedkin kids to fight they do not mind --- it is a pity that their bastards will never go into the army
    1. Jack122
      Jack122 16 October 2013 16: 23
      0
      The reason why they ride on armor is that our BMPs "on armor" are safer. This pepelats needs to be tested, tortured: maybe it will protect the soldiers inside and you won't have to ride on the armor. I have not seen the Americans ride their strikers "on armor". It is generally contraindicated to ride on armor tactically.
  7. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 16 October 2013 16: 15
    +4
    In which country is this possible: to spoil your military equipment, at a time when it is in demand abroad! Probably only with us. Such articles hit the prestige of domestic military equipment.
  8. awg75
    awg75 16 October 2013 16: 15
    0
    on this crap it will be difficult to get out of the RPG .... and on the armor the infantry will be like crows on a poplar, I don’t want to shoot ..... the resistance to turning seems to be complete p .... on this machine you need to send Taburetkin and Medvedkin kids to fight they do not mind --- it is a pity that their bastards will never go into the army
  9. Jack122
    Jack122 16 October 2013 16: 17
    0
    Three green wheels and one brown, it's straight to my eyes wassat wassat and the wunderwaffle was already discussed
  10. Algor73
    Algor73 16 October 2013 16: 18
    0
    You cannot create a machine that fully meets all the requirements, since magic does not work here. BMP should be divided, depending on the tasks, into light, medium and heavy.
  11. spirit
    spirit 16 October 2013 16: 37
    +1
    For some reason, anology immediately comes to me)))))))))))))
    1. bask
      bask 16 October 2013 20: 05
      +1
      Quote: spirit
      For some reason, anology immediately comes to me)

      And with me, with Nyala
  12. Fitter65
    Fitter65 16 October 2013 16: 42
    +2
    Quote: 0255
    Plus, there are no loopholes in the airborne squad through which the infantry could leave the damaged BMP.

    The infantryman is not a cockroach; he will not slip through the loophole.
  13. msv
    msv 16 October 2013 17: 01
    0
    The article is not reasoned enough, "minus". And I would not call this BMP advanced. But let them try, maybe something sensible in a competitive environment will come out.
  14. Jarserge
    Jarserge 16 October 2013 17: 02
    +2
    NORMAL armed forces must have balanced armament. Both wheeled and tracked vehicles must be present. And to give priority to one kind of pure water BRED. Never wheeled vehicles BMP, armored personnel carriers do not replace tracked infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers. Those who served me will understand the wheels behind the tanks will not be able to walk fully, well, given to them, it is all the more difficult to imagine a well-protected wheeled infantry fighting vehicle with a cross-country ability that does not correspond to Red Square. Uralvagonzavod once in history, with its competitive struggle, planted a "mine" for the Soviet Army. Now I decided to lobby the asphalt monster .... They will ruin the Kurgan plant and its good development, as they ruined the development of the Kharkov plant in their time, and this miracle will sit tightly in our mud until the first frost. And the article is very harmful, customized ...
  15. zoom52
    zoom52 16 October 2013 17: 09
    0
    Quote: Fitter65
    Quote: 0255
    Plus, there are no loopholes in the airborne squad through which the infantry could leave the damaged BMP.

    The infantryman is not a cockroach; he will not slip through the loophole.

    If you want to live, you’re not getting so excited ...
    (Peculiarities of the National Hunt)
  16. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 16 October 2013 17: 30
    +1
    57 mm for a tracked infantry fighting vehicle weighing 50 tons, but not for a wheeled one.
    BMP should be tracked, and have protection like a tank.
    But the armored personnel carrier just right - wheeled.
    Only 57 mm for an APC is a bit much ...
  17. gameover65
    gameover65 16 October 2013 17: 32
    0
    gazdydya, but it is not clear why it was invented!
    after the collapse of the ussr, someone saw the appearance (20 years have passed):
    new armored vehicles;
    new aircraft;
    new in rocket science;

    Tyranny another idea, that's the whole idea of ​​all this.
    their science has long been debilitated.
  18. 31231
    31231 16 October 2013 17: 35
    0
    Quote: Chicot 1
    Material about this car was already on the site. And he was met by a friendly wave of criticism ...

    Honestly, I don’t understand you, brothers ... Domestic BMPs and armored personnel carriers are bad for you, and you criticize them for their poor security. Please, this car is perhaps an order of magnitude higher in protection ...
    Criticize domestic 30 mm artillery systems for the fact that they lag behind foreign counterparts in a number of indicators ... Here, 57 mm, and they will "eat" any light armored vehicles and low-flying aircraft of any potential enemy ...
    You do not like the arch-Spartan conditions in our infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers ... There is enough space for the landing and the crew ...
    Oh yes !!! ... A tall silhouette! .. And this is a consequence of a larger armored volume and a more solid gun mount. As they say - everything has its consequences ... So choose - either with the most minimal comfort and protection, but low, or higher, but more spacious and more impressive ... Yes, and the gun can inspire every respect. Compared with it, even the Swedish BMP fades with 40 mm &

    Nothing to be surprised at. In World War II, there was also a large Sherman and a compact 34-ka. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. And everyone has their own rights to participate in hostilities. I still can’t understand what kind of armor she has. Judging by the joints on the layout of 15-20 mm ?!
  19. My address
    My address 16 October 2013 18: 00
    +2
    This dilda lacks only an additional radio beacon on a three-meter mast. And passability in her ... Although, perhaps, it is adapted for maneuvers on the asphalt of the Arbat military district. But that in support of tanks is not suitable, for sure, I know a little.
    Why not make heavy BMPs from T-72 stocks? Here, the Jews still use the captured T-54 / 55 and are not pleased.
  20. voliador
    voliador 16 October 2013 18: 21
    +3
    Firstly, all the same, the BMP seems to be on a caterpillar track, and this is a miracle on a wheeled one. Secondly, judging by the photo, the tower is moved aft, and it feels like the landing is in front. If so, then this is really a battle "grave" of infantry.
  21. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 16 October 2013 18: 51
    +2
    This is not our car. Order armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, BMD need those who need them, because the Supreme do not know how to fight in the future. And the article is extremely negative. The author didn’t see our equipment near, but there ... Silly I didn’t read anything. Equipment should be fought, not used for toys. You can’t create a universal machine for all cases, just like a perpetual motion machine. They spat at Pechenga when they drove equipment on the basis of BTR-80.
  22. kmike
    kmike 16 October 2013 19: 09
    +2
    I think that at this time it is better than BMP, there is no equipment for infantry in the world. Caterpillars, wheels are different chassis, different tasks. Of course, the test results can be excellent, but the real battle is very far from the test site.
  23. Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 16 October 2013 19: 14
    0
    In general, the abbreviation BMP in the troops stands for "Brotherly Grave of the Infantry "...
  24. Strashila
    Strashila 16 October 2013 19: 14
    +4
    "The concept of" Atom "was invented three months ago." ... they did not develop and did not form, namely, they came up with it ... and therefore it is impossible to understand what we have ... an infantry fighting vehicle or an ACS ... or an unknown animal. Ceramic armor panels ... somewhere it flashed ... Italians in Russia, there was also this unknown substance ... which is stupidly vparivat ... in the West, no one needs it, and if they needed figs they would get it .. Someone wants to recapture the loot in a rotten business, while not transferring manufacturing technologies. And then we again run into the Italians ... after all, the Ministry of Defense refused their services ... but someone, out of joy, riveted this so-called armor under Russian orders and now he does not know where to attach it, but considering that everything is happening with a certain manic component ... the thought arises that all roads lead to the Moscow Region and there are people interested in this nasty business, who care about their pockets, and not about the lives of soldiers ... invested, somehow it is necessary to return ... so different projects are invented, but with the same topic to And the Kurgan people got into the sphere of redistribution ... all their problems must come from here, money and money must go ... and they are being pressured, like they were being pressed with tanks ... where is the Omsk plant ... with a rifle weapons and others.
    1. Prapor-527
      Prapor-527 16 October 2013 19: 36
      +2
      69 Article. Sabotage

      An action or inaction aimed at undermining industry, transport, agriculture, the monetary system, trade or other sectors of the national economy, as well as the activities of state bodies or public organizations with the aim of weakening the Soviet state if this act was committed through the use of state or public institutions, enterprises , organizations or by counteracting their normal work, -
      the applicable sentence is deprivation of liberty for a term of eight to fifteen years with confiscation of property ...Need to return this article hi
  25. moremansf
    moremansf 16 October 2013 19: 17
    0
    In general, we can state this - the armor is strong and our tanks are fast !!!!
    1. bask
      bask 16 October 2013 20: 27
      +1
      If this is a French chassis, then with an armored personnel carrier / BMP Vextra.
      In the early nineties, the French Ministry of Defense, gave the technical specifications, the task of developing a new armored personnel carrier of a modular design.
      Based on Vextra in 1994, create a BMP, especially in the export version, for countries from the Middle East.
      But those did not show interest in the project.
      Now a joint project in Russia.
  26. Gronsky
    Gronsky 17 October 2013 00: 16
    +2
    In general, wheeled armored vehicles are from the evil one (unless of course it is MRAP).
    It is more suitable for police operations, well, or for coups d'etat in banana states, where those who came to power with her help, first eat (literally) their predecessors. There is no alternative for wheels for auxiliary vehicles and for wheels, but for vehicles that come in direct contact with the enemy, our good old caterpillar is everything.
  27. SkyMaXX
    SkyMaXX 17 October 2013 12: 07
    0
    Don’t say, but the world's best combat module for infantry fighting vehicles is a 100 mm and 30 mm twin gun module. The best in the world has not yet been developed. So in terms of weapon efficiency, the BMP-3 is the best BMP in the world. Here and missiles launched through the barrel of a gun and a machine gun. An infantry fighting vehicle with such a module can cope with any goals such as a tank, infantry fighting vehicle, armored personnel carrier, motor vehicles, armored jeeps, helicopters, and even attack aircraft and UAVs.
    It’s true that an automatic gun should be made not 30, but 40mm. 30 mm guns are not as effective as before. 40 mm ideal ratio of rate of fire and projectile combat power. But it’s too early to put 57 mm on the BMP, the power is certainly good, but the rate of fire will be low.