China recognizes: dependence on Russian engines will continue in the coming years

Officials from the Chinese aircraft corporation AVIC and, in particular, its export division, have confirmed to Jane`s the intention to maintain the current line of export products in the long term, while developing a next-generation combat aircraft designed to fight the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in world markets.

In addition, representatives of AVIC and the Russian aviation industry confirmed the publication that in the foreseeable future, Chinese fighter programs will remain dependent on Russian engines.

According to the newspaper, this thesis is consistent with what was reported to Salyut and other Russian engine builders by the Commander-in-Chief of the Chinese Air Force in November 2010. According to him, Russian suppliers of aircraft engines "can rely on the continuation of firm orders for at least the next five years. "

And at the end of September 2013, AVIC representatives announced that they would continue “to use Russian engines for another five to eight years, since the development and production of their own aviation engines remains the biggest challenge to the core business unit. " RD-93, which was exhibited in Beijing, was covered with a cloth both from the side of the low-pressure compressor blades and from the nozzle side so that they could not be photographed, since one of the applications of this modification is the installation of two engines on what AVIC representatives call exclusively "The concept of an advanced fighter" (Advanced Fighter Concept, AFC)

Previously, this fighter was designated as J-31 and "Project 310". According to AVIC representatives, it is being developed “for deliveries to foreign markets and competition with F-35, and for deliveries to the Chinese Air Force it was not originally intended”. Like JF-17, which is produced jointly with Pakistan, AFC is supposed to "develop with the participation of a foreign partner." At the same time, although the aircraft is intended to compete with the F-35, the deck version - contrary to earlier reports - is not in the plans (this seems to be reported for the first time - note P.2).

Another flagship of the Chinese aviation industry, J-20, is rumored to be equipped with the 117-C engine developed by the Russian NPO Saturn - the same as that of the Su-35 and T-50.

According to documents published by Edward Snowden, Chinese fifth-generation fighter programs are a blank spot in the picture of the world of American intelligence. Official intelligence reports claim that J-31 and J-20 are far behind American competitors in terms of stealth and the development of relevant technologies, but the Chinese are progressing much faster than could be expected as they stole technological secrets from the networks of the US Department of Defense and its contractors.

Comments

[C-600]

and ours doesn’t need to steal anything, they’ll give

[Romn]

As long as this addiction exists, sales must be stopped urgently!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Romn

sales must be urgently stopped!

Sales do not need to be stopped, you need to use Chinese components for the production of engines intended for China.

[AVV]

The Chinese, as always, decided to take the buyer at the price, not quality, since their engines are still very raw, and the aircraft equipment, i.e. projects of this equipment, for the most part stolen !!! And what is yours, still very far from perfect !!!

[teleset]

I think it’s too late to stop sales, they have already copied everything they wanted.

[Bezarius]

That is unnecessary. There are things that even the Chinese cannot copy. One of these things is just these very engines. While they can establish a copy, we will go one step further. And given their scientific potential, I doubt that they will be able to develop their own copy.

[SAG]

Quote: C-600

and ours doesn’t need to steal anything, they’ll give

Who is yours ?? You have the flag of the European Union ... and there the audience is so motley that as the saying goes: "Ours are waving to yours!"

[michajlo]

C-600 EU Today, 10:04 AM _131010 / Even New

Hello Nikolai!

You are right in your statement of "highly patriotic entrepreneurs and government officials" with a dollar on their chest.

Since the trace of a star on the chest of a patriot is now considered shameful and interfering with his career and success ...

[Airman]

Quote: C-600

and ours doesn’t need to steal anything, they’ll give

It is interesting why the Chinese have pressed our drivers so hard that all the most modern developments are first of all to them, even the film "Stalingrad" will be the first to be shown abroad to the Chinese.

[Vladimirets]

"RD-93, which was exhibited in Beijing, was covered with a cloth both from the side of the low pressure compressor blades and from the nozzle side so that they could not be photographed, since one of the applications of this modification is to install two engines on what AVIC representatives call exclusively "Advanced Fighter Concept" (AFC) "

From whom to cover it? The Chinese will rivet planes and export.

[xetai9977]

They can’t create their own engine, but they are talking about 5th generation aircraft. On copying, you will not be a leader, but you will always lag behind.

[IRBIS]

Well, at least something has not yet been rested, bros are yellow-faced. And copying does not work - the engine does not fit into the copier.
But seriously, it is necessary to share their developments with reasonable countries with reasonable limits.

[Airman]

Quote: IRBIS

Well, at least something has not yet been rested, bros are yellow-faced. And copying does not work - the engine does not fit into the copier.
But seriously, it is necessary to share their developments with reasonable countries with reasonable limits.

I already wrote that the time has come for the latest developments abroad, especially not to deliver to China. Having put the Chinas, we immediately get the clones and we lose sales markets.

[IRBIS]

Quote: Povshnik

long time has come the latest developments abroad, especially to China, do not deliver.

Your words are to guidance in the ears, and our thoughts are to their egg-headed heads.

[major071]

Although China's aviation industry has taken a big step, but still the industry is not yet able to repeat production technology. And on one copy you will not go far.

[hrych]

With these, everything is clear, for decades, the mind wasn’t enough to copy, it’s not for you the spoofed iPhones. But NASA's much-vaunted ostensibly trampled moon, is completely dependent on our RD-180 for their fifth Atlases. There is no higher technology than aerospace in nature, but ours are self-abasing, saying that Vanka is useless for anything, an iPhone cannot assemble, but a closed-cycle engine may not be what rice-eaters Lockheed Martin cannot copy for ten years.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: hrych

this is not you iphones counterfeit spank

They spank them at night on the same line as the real ones. Well, at least ours did not take the production of engines to China. Otherwise, they would also start "own developments" on the night shift. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they endure it.

[Strezhevchanin]

Quote: hrych

for decades, the mind was not enough to copy

So that it prompted them that it is necessary to copy engineers, but not the engine!
One would like to ask the question, "Well, who is the engine of progress"?

[seller trucks]

Quote: hrych

With these, everything is clear, for decades, the mind wasn’t enough to copy, it’s not for you the spoofed iPhones.

As for the iPhones, Apple himself and not only he placed his own production in China, so the Chinese are the most "honest" in the US yet they do not produce them, secondly, the Chinese themselves, under their brands, produce quite good phones, for example, I my daughter bought a Xiaomi Mi2 at the beginning of summer, a bomb device, and it costs at least 2 times cheaper, brands Lenovo, Huawei, Ainol, Cube, please, buy in Russia.

And they cannot start making engines because for starters it is necessary to achieve Russian standards (there are, thank God, such), at one time the USSR faced the same problems in the production of jet aircraft after the war buying engines over a hill. What can I say, even if the Americans, with all their high technology, buy RD-180 engines manufactured by NPO Energomash in Russia

[Russ69]

Quote: seller trucks

What can I say, even if the Americans, with all their high technologies, buy RD-180 engines produced by NPO Energomash in Russia

Maybe they can do it ... But, according to their own estimates, it takes about 10 years and several billion bucks.
For this, copying is simply not profitable ...

[Nitup]

Quote: seller trucks

Apple himself posted and not only he

I believe that it meant the unlicensed production of iPhones in China

[seller trucks]

Quote: Nitup

I believe that it meant the unlicensed production of iPhones in China

I report

All Apple appliances, including the iPhone and iPad, are manufactured in China at the world's only Apple Foxconn plant and nowhere else. There are no iPhones and iPads made in the USA, Europe or elsewhere, this is a myth! Many people confuse the concept of the country of delivery with the concept of the country of manufacture.

http://mac-story.ru/faq/

[Airman]

Quote: seller trucks

What can I say, even if the Americans, with all their high technologies, buy RD-180 engines produced by NPO Energomash in Russia

The Americans can make an engine, but before starting it, it is necessary to "run in" it at the stand, to bring it to mind, and the stand is very expensive, and therefore they came to the conclusion that it is easier to pay with candy wrappers than to build a stand. For some reason, the Americans do not sell us anything from military technology.

[seller trucks]

Quote: Povshnik

Americans can make an engine

In the morning I feel that half a liter, but I can not prove!

[Nitup]

Quote: hrych

There are no higher technologies than aerospace in nature

Yes, these are just aircraft engines

[nod739]

a clear signal is given - 5 years of handicap to make the next generation engine.
well, or at least improve the performance of existing

[IGS]

This is not a handicap. Understand that what they are doing has brought their intellectual potential to a standstill. It will take them 20 years to change a generation of developers who are not "blinkered" on copying. We need a different approach in the design business, some courage, originality, a normal designer, he will never be able to copy anything, he will definitely add his own. So the more they copy, the deeper they get bogged down in this swamp, the more their design school is just developing, and the copying method has become its basis. I am of the opinion.

Quote: xetai9977

On copying, you will not be a leader, but you will always lag behind.

[Basileus]

Well, two new cars, if copies, are very free. Maybe that’s what happens.

[Altona]

The thesis is generally true, I remind readers that the Soviet Union in these areas followed the Chinese path in the 30s and until the beginning of the 50s, generously copying foreign developments in which he lagged behind and for which he did not yet have sufficient scientific and technological bases, then this rethought experience served as an impetus for the development of our own developments, so do not belittle the Chinese ... While they are copying, and then if they start something themselves, they will be able to break away from everyone ...

[IGS]

I was engaged, but all the copies were a temporary patch, in order to gain time to develop our own designs, take the same Tu-4, which was produced only 5 years ago, never copying was laid in the foundation of the domestic design business, since it is in the definition of this the words. In China, they are engaged not in the development of their own ideas, but in adapting strangers to their production conditions, in particular to their level of metallurgy and metal processing, with the maximum possible correspondence to the original. Feel the difference? Xerox and typewriter are two different things, although the result, like, is one - a sheet of paper with text. This applies not only to military equipment. It has become a kind of ideology. So she will keep them in her development.

[Avenger711]

The Tu-4 was already outdated by that time, the era of jet engines was coming.

[IGS]

Then you will call any copy which would serve longer. Or, if the Chinese have already switched to 5th generation aircraft, then they should have already learned how to design and build simpler things themselves, name such a thing, they copy cars while preserving the design even in small things. There is one thing that the Chinese really created, although the idea is not theirs, it is a Chinese keyboard for PC.

[SAG]

The scientific and production association Saturn has begun preparing a new engine for the promising T-50 fighter (PAK FA) for bench tests. This was stated by Yevgeny Marchukov, general designer and director of the Lyulka Scientific and Technical Center, which is part of Saturn. Tests of the new engine will begin in 2014.
The adoption of a fighter based on the T-50, moved for no apparent reason to 2017, perhaps they want to adopt with their own engines "Type 30", and not from the transitional stage "Products 117". IMHO
The detonation pulsating engines are marching on the Raptors, judging by their work ... in many ways, I think, because of them, in particular, F-22s are not delivered. So, in this regard we are 15-20 years behind the Americans
But by the same 15-20 we are ahead of the Chinese ... all their engines of their own design are a miserable parody of ours (the power is comparable, but the resource to hell)

[Basileus]

Pratt & Whitney F119 is an aircraft high-temperature turbojet dual-circuit engine with an afterburner and a vertically controlled thrust vector developed by Pratt & Whitney for the 5th generation Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor fighter.

Serial pulse motors do not exist even in the USA.

[Avenger711]

The pulsating engine would not be so unseen, but they seem to be used only in aircraft modeling.

[Avenger711]

There is no detonation-pulsating motor-like motor, moreover, in terms of specific thrust of the same level as 117C.

[Odysseus]

The Chinese are twisting something. RD-93 is being purchased for export FC-1s delivered to Pakistan and will indeed be purchased for at least another 5-6 years. But what does the J-31 have to do with it? It is possible to put the RD-93 on the prototype, but on the whole it is clearly visible that there is not enough traction. It is not clear what they are going to put on it.
As for the J-20 and 117C, the situation is clearer. If they buy a small batch of Su-35, then they need an engine.

[tennis]

Quote: hrych

There are no higher technologies than aerospace in nature, but ours all self-abase, saying that Vanka is useless for anything, an iPhone cannot assemble, but a closed-cycle engine can

Gold words. And then I also looked at a lot of figures with "iron arguments" - "and it is not enough to assemble the same phone?" This is the height of their dreams and the ceiling of everything else.

[Altona]

Everything can be assembled and put into production, for this you just need to create the appropriate industry - the production of microcircuits, the production of screens, maintain a staff of programmers, hardware developers, designers, etc. If this is not the case, then there is no need to say ... To say that we cannot, is also impossible ... There will be enough brains ... Another thing is that China is a huge country, a huge population, it is possible to develop an industry, different industries, internal market ... And now we are with the population of Pakistan, we have such an internal market, such a number of people, plus the degradation of science and education for the sake of the liberal model, which is tailored for buy and sell ... That's all ...

[Basileus]

Had Pakistan. 50 million more people live there.

[ia-ai00]

... intelligence reports claim that the J-31 and J-20 are far behind American competitors in terms of stealth and the development of related technologies, but the Chinese progress much fasterthan you might expect ...

I would like to hope that the Russian designers will progress no less than the Chinese, so that neither the Chinese have time in this area, no one else to COME ON FIVE.

[fklj]

Our specialists need to roll up their sleeves. A lot of work.
Good hunting!

By the way, those who sold the documentation for the Su-27 should be judged.

[ed65b]

Already create a new one. and they will create five years, they will sell what they have now, then another 20 years, the one that they will do. China is forever behind Russia and the United States. these are not rivets with pasaonikov

[Basileus]

The Soviet Union in 20-30gg also lagged far behind the rest in technology. But somehow he managed to catch up to the war, and in some places surpass the world leaders.

[Starover_Z]

They probably can’t copy because they did not understand the alloy compositions. So the latest engines they do not sell, only the previous ones.
The Americans, in spite of their protective technologies, can sell the most advanced and only with their services and only to their closest allies, and Russia what? Not dumber than whales?
Nobody wants to sell her products with the latest technology - you can’t value them with money. And she should do the same!

[teleset]

I agree with you completely. I would like to hope that this is a big game of Russia in terms of pulling in the armament of China and, if anything, so, together with China, to throw off American gigimony from the pedal.

[Fin]

Russian aircraft engine suppliers “can rely with confidence on the continuation of firm orders for at least the next five years.”

If we do not have traitors, then they will not do anything for about 20 years. Stupidly making the same detail is not all. And metal alloys, manufacturing technology. These are not auto engines.

[Jurkovs]

It turns out that not everything is copied; there is some limit. They don’t write about this, but we, too, are doing our best to catch up with the United States in engine building, and if we could just copy it, we would have done it a long time ago. But no, the porcelain compressor with the F-22 is not given in any way.

[Koronik]

Well done Chinese! Few words more deeds. This is how you need to work, no information, just guesses and everything new for yourself.

[ayuric]

so, if the Chinese started with down jackets, then home appliances, right now the auto industry, planes are on the horizon, and so on, given their role and place in the global economy, in the near future they can very well catch up with leaders, and possibly surpass them. Even if the technologies and technologists are raw, but they can copy, and if they do not learn, then they will start to buy brains with the consequences that arise from them. Do not underestimate them.

[shtanko.49]

China will simply force Russia to move forward, and not sit on the developments of the 80s, let them copy, for now they are copying with us, and not ours, but we need to hurry.

[pahom54]

Copy then copy, but what's the point? Russia does not transfer technology to them, but ready-made engines ... For example, I’ll bring Kalashnikov’s assault rifles and TT pistols made in China - their reliability is much inferior to the reliability of the production of the same weapons in the USSR-Russia ... So the copied engine will be different in the first place for the worse, reliability and resource intensity, and then to the rest ...

[Avenger711]

RD-93 is a variant of the RD-33 from the MiG-29, for the F-35 class cars are frankly weak, if not 3 sticks at once. This motor is not some kind of top-secret machine. Moreover, it seems very likely that this is a variant of old modifications, newer versions for the MiG-29K, MiG-35 Chinese, it seems, no one thinks to deliver.