Fighting compartment for "Almaty", "Boomerang" and "Kurganets-25": new details

The development of the Instrument Design Bureau was presented at a closed show as part of the IX International Exhibition of Arms, Military Equipment and Ammunition Russia Arms Expo 2013, which took place from 25 to 28 in September in Nizhny Tagil.

According to the website kbptula.ru, the show took place on September 25 and 26 in a special closed pavilion, where the country's leadership, officials of a number of ministries could evaluate the advanced weapons and the possibilities of equipping the army with new models. D. A. Medvedev and D. O. Rogozin were able to personally get acquainted with weapons future.

On the eve of the exhibition, N.I. Khokhlov, the head of the delegation of the enterprise - deputy head of the BBTT and ATGM, said that KBP OJSC fulfilled its part of the contract and delivered the fighting units in time: OCD as a part of promising unified platforms.

By joint efforts of our designers, the production of JSC Shcheglovsky Val, as well as support services, we have qualitatively fulfilled the task set in the planned timeframe. The main distinctive feature of this BO, which is planned for the series, is that it is crewless.

The presence of a person is completely excluded there, that is, it is conditionally possible to call this fighting compartment partly robotic or remotely controlled. In addition, there used a sighting complex of a new generation, which we began to develop even before the appearance of this topic and the formulation of the problem.

Now our scientific and technical groundwork has come in handy. That is, this idea has long been in the air - to make a sight of this type, of the next class, because compared to the "Bakhchoy" and "Berezhk" this is a step forward. Moreover, when designing, a sufficiently large modernization potential has been established, where it is possible to change a gun without any major modifications, to attach additional types of weapons, that is, this branch of the future.

How much BO is going to be a department of the future is a debatable question. But for now, the customer’s wish is to have a crewless compartment that is managed - fulfilled. ”

N.I. Khokhlov noted that having compared with other powerful enough weapons in this BO, the designers did not "enter" down the machine a centimeter: "That is, if you go into the landing compartment, then this is an even ceiling," said the head of the delegation "KBP", - nothing stands, and all the gunner and the commander are thought out and calculated according to all the rules of ergonomics.

In this BO, the function of two-channel work is realized, that is, the gunner and the commander can work on various goals independently of each other, each with their own weapons. "

Comments

[Alexander Romanov]

A mechanic will come and tell how it really is. This is a more reliable source.

[svp67]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

This is a more reliable source.

But he is an expert in "hodovke", and then "BO" ...

[mirag2]

This BO can probably be equipped with different cannon weapons and installed on both BMT and heavy infantry fighting vehicles.
Those. This is a loading system + SLA.

[klimpopov]

Here the question "was, was not." So Zhenya will tell you something.
But in general, this ph with models has already sore eyes.

[Dimon-chik-79]

Probably models and will be adopted

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: svp67

But he is an expert in "hodovke", and then "BO" ...

And where does the hodovka, when it crawls through the armature both outside and inside

[svp67]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

And where does the hodovka, when it crawls through the armature both outside and inside

But a specialist in "hodovka", but what about the other? It is not enough to see right there, here you also need to understand, or better compare, with what happened ...

[lelikas]

So he is not crawling along the Kurgan people with the Boomerangs;)

[t-95-70]

and most importantly, everyone saw him crawling

[Civil]

If only the conditional opponent did not switch to robots :-)

[aksakal]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

A mechanic will come and tell how it really is. This is a more reliable source.

- We are waiting for the Mechanic. Eagerly. But the SABGE just sounds stunning! Now, if this is still true, then it's just super! The world's first rotated and sophisticated, two-channel BO! "to make a sight of this type, the next class, because compared with the "Bakhcha" and "Berezhk" this is a step forward. Moreover, the design has a sufficiently large modernization potential, where you can change the gun without major modifications, attach additional types of weapons, that is, this is a branch of the future. - sounds like music

[abrakadabre]

I'm certainly not a specialist in profile, but most of all, it’s stunning for me:
the designers didn’t "enter" the cars down a centimeter: "That is, if you enter the troop compartment, then this is a flat ceiling,

How is this possible in terms of deploying a very voluminous ammunition and reserve space for the movement of the breech of the gun when pointing in a vertical plane? Plus rollback when fired. Plus the dimensions of the armor itself and auxiliary mechanisms. The same automatic loading.
If for the relatively small-caliber weapons of the BMP ... well, somehow it’s possible to admit there, then for Armata ... Miniature figs! Skolkovo is resting.
Intrigued right. We are waiting for the mechanic. Vulture he certainly will not open to us. Do not need. But even the monosyllabic phraseological unit or YES will suit me for the first time.

[Wedmak]

How is this possible in terms of deploying a very voluminous ammunition ...

Armata is a platform. It is unlikely that anything more than 30 mm will be put on a heavy BMP based on Almaty. So much for the landing compartment with a flat ceiling. And where is the landing on the tank? It is unlikely that there will be, as on Merkava, a kubrick for placement in a siu-si position, the wrong volumes.

[Ezhaak]

Quote: abrakadabre

I'm certainly not a specialist in profile, but most of all, it’s overwhelming for me

This is not about Armata !!! Below I gave a link to the KBP website, this is their product.

[lelikas]

Well, in fact, there’s nothing archaic and super-duper,
Germans and Canadians and Americans are doing this.
The presence of people in Bahce is not its drawback, again - in the event of a clash - the fire will be concentrated on the BMP body, therefore it is not so important where the operator is located, but the fact that the entire bk is carried out in a not very protected tower can be a minus, although the release of space for landing - a plus.

[APASUS]

Quote: aksakal

"to make a sight of this type, the next class, since it is a step forward in comparison with the" Bakhcha "and" Berezhk ". Moreover, the design has a sufficiently large modernization potential, where you can change the gun without major modifications, attach additional types of weapons, that is branch of the future - sounds like music

This music scares me. Will our MO want to buy these latest developments, because how many valuable inventions were sold over the hill because of what we "don’t need!

[Apollo]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Mechanic will come

and if he doesn’t come ?!

Quote: Alexander Romanov

and tell

and if he comes but doesn’t tell ?!

Quote: Alexander Romanov

This is a more reliable source.

that is yes.

Hello Alexander

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Apollon

and if he doesn’t come ?!

So FSB tied

Quote: Apollon

and if he comes but doesn’t tell?

So they’ve released a subscription
Hi Apollo

[zanoza]

While all these are words and prototypes. The picture (photo) can be outwardly beautiful and, perhaps, meaningful, but only factory and military (especially) tests will show "what is what", whether our developers are on the right "road". Yes, and the state of our economy, MTBases, sometimes become an insurmountable obstacle for new ideas.
I would like to wish good luck to the project!

[abrakadabre]

The picture is already a hundred years old at lunch

[Andrey Yuryevich]

exhausted my whole soul, passion as a hunt for all this in a heap to see ...

[alexpro66]

I am joining! Also really looking forward to!)))) The source is simply -FABRIC!
Do not forget to minus!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

minus ... but why did you need this ???

[alexpro66]

This is a reminder for the gifted. I mean, the Mechanic not only works with Armata, but he also builds Kurgan and Boomerang and travels to Tula ?? - check how BM development works there ??)))) Well, I think under the nickname Mechanic- Rogozin unsubscribes — no less! !!)))))

[Geisenberg]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

A mechanic will come and tell how it really is. This is a more reliable source.

Pomme so everything is chewed. Uninhabited combat module with a cannon and something else. Mounted on top of an armored enclosure. Apparently the tank will look like the German Leopard of the latest models - a huge ugly tower on top of the transport platform.

[alone]

I would like to see at least one ready-made platform, and then some kind of layouts and layouts. (

[t-95-70]

yes, as if the mechanic will tell, everyone knows how knowledgeable. And most importantly, the authority is not reputed

[svp67]

The main distinguishing feature of this BO, which is planned for the series, is that it is crewless.

The presence of a person is completely excluded there, that is, it is conditionally possible to call this fighting compartment partly robotic or remotely controlled. In addition, there used a sighting complex of a new generation, which we began to develop even before the appearance of this topic and the formulation of the problem.

This is all INTERESTING, well, at least one photo ... Words of course can tell a lot, but I would like to see ...

[abrakadabre]

Words of course can tell a lot, but I would like to see ...
And how our sworn friends want to see !!! And if we read this in joy, then what is it?

[Wedmak]

And if we read this in joy, then what is it?

Our most ardent friends are now busy with another - they consider the budget. Have mercy, the new Russian tank in iron will be an occasion for them to use all antidepressants prepared for a rainy day.

[abrakadabre]

What am I doing? I sho taco ...
I can even pay an extra pack of these same ... depressants to them and buy ... Humanitarianism so to speak

[night1313]

It’s more likely to overturn the budget, some article in NYT will be released, such as a report about the puppy Abrams and Armata super-megaciller, they will raise a howl about defenselessness from shaggy balalaika, etc. on the list and knock out money for some super slingshot. So the Pentagon will still be grateful to us.

[Wedmak]

So the Pentagon will still be grateful to us.

How to say. Their prototypes only do that they star in cool videos about the super weapons of the future. On the plans for adopting a new tank .. not heard. But Americans are PR masters. At the same time, the US Army make buy new abrams so as not to lose jobs at the factory. But the army does not need them! They simply have nowhere to put and apply!

[night1313]

Yes, I agree, though Ragozin has already defeated everyone by PR. Wave will still be driven without the enemy no budget.

[alone]

I don’t argue. He’s a master of promotion. It’s only time to move from words to deeds.

[major071]

Again without a photo, again some riddles. Imagination draws something incredible, but I want specificity and reality.

[waisson]

I hope the imagination doesn’t deceive you, but for now I myself am guessing

[Apollo]

Quote: major071

Again without a photo, again some riddles. Imagination draws something incredible, but I want specificity and reality.

You want a lot, but it doesn’t.

[lelikas]

Quote: major071

Again without a photo, again some riddles. Imagination draws something incredible, but I want specificity and reality.

Most likely, we are talking about BM "Epoch" - you can read more at GurKhan.

[nazgul-ishe]

And in serial execution of the state order.

[Sirop]

It's too early, we'll see at the parade in 2015)))

[nazgul-ishe]

Four pieces made in China or elsewhere.

[AK-47]

Quote: Sirop

It's too early, we'll see at the parade in 2015)))

If we survive.
I think the tank will not look something futuristic, in the style of stealth and other things. He will have a purely Russian image, seemingly unprepossessing, but somehow imperceptibly perfect. Such that it immediately becomes clear - we are power.
Like this:

[Aleks tv]

Quote: AK-47

Like this:

No, Valery ...
The periscope is clearly not enough ... Under water, how?
Plus nana add steps to spacewalk. Suddenly Martians?

And so - a little weak for us ...
Let the Americans ride on such a simple configuration.

[AK-47]

Quote: Aleks tv

The periscope is clearly not enough ... Under water, how? Plus ... steps to spacewalk

I agree.
One head is good, two is better.

[dustycat]

And the video unit above the screw sleeve for what?
Explicitly on a retractable bar.
Why not a periscope?
Especially since it flew by what exactly television periscopes instead of optical ones will sculpt on new submarines - they are both longer and easier to operate and repair.

[xAskoldx]

I love people with a great sense of humor !!! RESPECT!

[understudy]

"Unmanned BO", of course, is cool, but ... I think that a backup system "do it by hand" should be provided. And I was also alarmed by the words of the ova "enough powerful weapons in this BO. "How's that?

[berserk1967]

Exactly. And then a nuclear explosion, an electromagnetic pulse and all the robotic equipment down the drain, or else it’s even easier in EW conditions how all these robots will work.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: berserk1967

a nuclear explosion, an electromagnetic pulse and all the robotic equipment down the drain, or even easier in EW

Yes, Oleg, this is a problem. It must not be forgotten.
And now it is not at all "fashionable" to talk about it.

The way out is the good old duplicated mechanical control.
How to make it with modularity?
Personally, I am not a constructor, but I do not want to compose.
But I hope this will be taken into account.

[dustycat]

How how...
On cables and ropes.

[erased]

Until we see in nature, it makes no sense to guess. And to paint like that and to no purpose. How long is it to wait?

[night1313]

Reading the memoirs of the participants of the 1st Chechen War, I especially remember the story of a tank officer, unfortunately I do not remember the author. So his car received more than one hit, as a result, various problems arose that were eliminated manually and the car continued to remain a combat unit and did not leave the battle (unfortunately, they did not have much to go out). It is clear that according to the mantra of NO ANALOGUES ON WORLD STANDARDS, active and passive protection should not allow hitting, but even so, in theory, there should be access to the fighting compartment from the inside ("the presence of a person is completely excluded"), because mantras are mantras, and life is life and it is possible to lose a combat unit from for a jammed robotic remote-controlled automatic loader is somehow not good. IMHO

[Aleks tv]

Quote: tun1313

his car received more than one hit, as a result there were various malfunctions that were fixed manually and the car continued to be a combat unit and did not leave the battle

Yes, your thought is different - the weapon should be unpretentious.
But if the crew is in a more protected place of the combat vehicle than in a tower surrounded by weapons and ammunition ...

That life of fighters is somehow more expensive ... Indeed. ?
If they follow this principle, then I am FOR all arms and legs. Just revise the tactics of application (taking into account possible increases in jamming).

If the protection of the crew in the hull (in the capsule, or in some other "canister") on the new machines will not differ from the safety of the current turrets, and the automatic modularity of the weapons will stick out like the current "fashion" in military affairs ...
That, of course, is crap.
We'll see.

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Aleks tv

But if the crew is in a more secure place of the combat vehicle than in the tower,

Citizens, be more attentive. Here we are not talking about the "Armata" BO, but about the BO promised by the Tula KBP for the BMD-4M, if I am not mistaken.

In this BO, the dual-channel operation function is implemented, that is, the gunner and commander can work on different goals independently of each other, each with their own weapons. ”

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Hedgehog

Here we are not talking about BO "Armata"

Yes, Eugene.
When I wrote, I thought about Kurgan and Boomerang in the first place ... well, a little bit about Armata.

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Aleks tv

Aleks tv

By the way, here is more detailed http://kbptula.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387%3Arusarmsexpo
5&catid=13%3A2011-09-06-10-28-34&Itemid=2&lang=ru

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Hedgehog

here in more detail

Thanks for the link.

[abrakadabre]

Well ... The author has written very strongly. We thought a lot about everything.
We didn’t study by the USE. Soviet education developed a fantasy for us. Yes, books about how spaceships plow the expanses of the universe.
That brought a little

[faint27]

Fortune telling again. GIVE PHOTO !!!

[night1313]

Better drawings ... :))))

[Ezhaak]

better swatch to touch!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: sven27

GIVE PHOTO !!!

Whoever gives the photo will be given a term

[svp67]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Whoever gives the photo will be given a term

The term, not the term, but the job will be lost, simultaneously with the security clearance ... But the question to the authorities, the more complex T50 is shown without hesitation, completing the construction of ships, the same, and the most common samples of military equipment are secrets under seven seals, the general view it is already possible to show at least a "plastic" "full-scale model" ... Not only "public servants" but the people themselves must know where and on what their money is spent.

[night1313]

Quote: svp67

But the question to the authorities, the more complex T50 is shown without embarrassment, building ships

One thing is the case, and another thing is the filling. It’s easier to really lay out the blueprints, it’s still not a civilian car (although they are no worse guarded before the premiere). By the way, there are mock-ups, rather than a general view.

[svp67]

Quote: tun1313

By the way, there are mock-ups, rather than a general view.

These layouts are laid out already God knows how much, and most importantly without a specific binding, what are the layouts, everyone guesses for himself ...

[Ezhaak]

Quote: svp67

without a specific binding, what are these layouts, everyone guesses for himself ...

Well, next to each layout is a description plate, read on health! ))))

[svp67]

Quote: Hedgehog

Well, next to each layout is a description plate, read on health! ))))

He became a little blind, do not consider it hard to read these inscriptions ...

[Aleks tv]

Quote: svp67

announce these inscriptions ...

[svp67]

Hi Alex. Again, the "poor" "virtual Armata" is "washed out", it seems that when she is finally shown, she will wake up "sterile clean" ...

[Wedmak]

it looks like when she is finally shown she wakes up "sterile clean" ...

And rightly so, but no infection will pester.

[svp67]

Quote: Wedmak

but no infection will bother

I would like to....

[Aleks tv]

Quote: svp67

it looks like when she is finally shown she wakes up "sterile clean" ...

Greetings, Sergey.

Ага.
Or people will be very disappointed that she will not be able to fire direct fire from under water or ... to go into open space.
The science fiction around this project has already exceeded all conceivable possibilities.
We are waiting, sir.

[abrakadabre]

This is a PR in the best traditions. Create an intrigue. And when all the vorogami go crazy with guesses ...
And war is not needed

[Alex 241]

..........................................

[Alex 241]

Men, what kind of apparatuses are these?

[bask]

Quote: Alex 241

Men, what kind of apparatuses are these?

SASH.
Product Bondarchuk and KO. The film ,, inhabited island ,,, - its pipelats.
[media = http: //nevsedoma.com.ua/index.php? newsid = 33476]

[Alex 241]

http://www.fotosimagenes.org/fuerzas-terrestres-de-rusia, Андрюх источник,

Quote: bask

,, inhabited island,

I tried to see this masterpiece, it was enough for exactly 24 minutes

[bask]

Quote: Alex 241

I tried to see this masterpiece, it was enough for exactly 24 minutes

I didn’t even try, my wife said a complete howoun. And I believed her (oddly enough).

[Alex 241]

Let's see what happened to him with Stalingrad.

[regsSSSR]

Quote: Alex 241

http://www.fotosimagenes.org/fuerzas-terrestres-de-rusia, Андрюх источник,

Quote: bask

,, inhabited island,

I tried to see this masterpiece, it was enough for exactly 24 minutes

In general, the Strugatsky brothers are very difficult to screen, yet not with some worthy have not received. and the book itself (the inhabited island), magnificent in its time, was read in a chasm as a principle and all the works of the brothers.
soon the film of Aleksey German (it’s difficult to be a god) should be sung in another name (massacre in the arkonar) based on the Strugatsky novel of the same name, which he had been filming for more than 8 years but did not live up to its publication. I advise you to look! if he comes out of course
and Bondarchuk simply tried to please everyone and those who read this work and expected from the film the deep meaning of the Strugatsky world and those who are used to seeing only an action movie in the cinema and, in the end, nothing! and the thought recently reached the viewer and the gunman took off so-so in the outcome, the attempt to sit on two chairs failed. Now, if briefly, something like this)

[abrakadabre]

By the way, reflections on the photo:
If you look Here are all sorts of BMPs there, they have the upper frontal part of the armor almost horizontally, and the lower frontal part, on the contrary, is almost vertical.
Here my curiosity was overturned: how much more advantageous is the survivability of the machine, such an orientation of the upper and lower parts, the opposite, or as shown on the Armata type — equal angles of both plates. And which shell ricochet is preferable: to the sky or to the earth.
Who are the specialists, please enlighten?

[Ezhaak]

Quote: svp67

read these inscriptions.

Well, actually, first show the paper on the right to listen to the texts of those tablets. :) Do you have access to classified information. And even more so on the site, which is actively visited by our spy friends.

[svp67]

Quote: Hedgehog

Well, actually, first show the paper on the right to listen to the texts of those tablets. :)

Well again deceived ..... well, I don’t play like that ....
And "mustache, paws and tail", as a document will come down
That is why people who are quietly allowed to go abroad, the same Serdyukov, can read them, and I, who have been doing my passport for almost half a year, afraid that I’ll take out what secret, can’t do it

[Ezhaak]

Quote: svp67

Well again deceived

Your fate is like that! And our destiny is to believe everyone and not trust anyone! The presence of a passport just raises suspicions. Well, as you learn the text on the plate and rush ahead of the rest to our sworn friends to sell! It will not work. At our border, hungry dogs await you. They also want to eat.

[Wedmak]

But the question to the authorities, the more complex T50, is shown without embarrassment, building ships, the same, and the most common examples of military equipment - secrets under seven seals

T-50 and ships are far from everyone can repeat on photo and video materials. But the tank, bmp ... immediately copy the Chinese.

[abrakadabre]

Not only "servants of the people" but the people themselves must know where and on what their money is spent.
The less you know the better you sleep.

[Manager]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Whoever gives the photo will be given a term

Is it really not worth it? )))

[yanus]

I quite believe in uninhabited BO, but "robotic" - they lie and do not blush.

[Basileus]

It depends on what it means. If a fully automatic system, then yes, you can not say about a robotic one. If it’s automated, where a large number of tasks are assigned to mechanics, and a person only indicates what and when to do, then BO can be called robotic to some extent.

[Corsair]

Quote: Basileus

It depends on what it means.

Robot (Czech robot, from rob - slave) - an automatic device designed to replace human labor. Acting according to a predetermined program and receiving information about the outside world from sensors, the robot independently carries out production and other operations, usually performed by humans. At the same time, the robot can either have a connection with the operator (receive commands from it) and act autonomously.

[Basileus]

Without the help of the captain, we would not have figured it out, thanks. It is like a teacher at school, giving the only correct definition in his opinion and not tolerating other options in the answer.

But even by your definition, it turns out that it can be called robotic. Because in modern systems - avionics of combat aircraft or FCS of tanks there are a lot of elements that independently carry out calculations and are independent of the tanker / pilot. Target tracking machines, ballistic computers. The direction of the nozzle in airplanes with UVT is also not controlled by the pilot.

[Corsair]

Quote: Basileus

Without the help of the captain, we would not have figured it out, thanks. It is like a teacher at school, giving the only correct definition in his opinion and not tolerating other options in the answer.

As I understood, the "captain" is ?
So: Chop yourself on your nose - NOT ONE comment can claim to be exclusivity и infallibility, INCLUDING and mine ...

Only ONE of MANY definitions of ROBOT values ​​was given, and because of that your "nervous" reaction is strange

[Locksmith]

Quote: yanus

I quite believe in uninhabited BO, but "robotic" - they lie and do not blush.

What's so surprising? You don’t think that on tanks the cannon is manually raised and directed, therefore there have been servo drives for a long time, and since the use of servo drives on manual gearboxes is called "robotic gearbox", I think there is the same feature here, that is, aiming the barrel with a servo drive. And there is a hatch in BO, somehow it needs to be charged and serviced, without this, probably nowhere.

[dustycat]

Why not robotic?
Robotization is a matter of terminology.
The twin machine gun in tanks is also robotic - the electric start and the electric shutter make it robotic, although the cables and manual release also remained - for whom it is robotic, for whom it is simply remotely controlled.

[alone]

Quote: yanus

I quite believe in uninhabited BO, but "robotic" - they lie and do not blush.

Well, why are you so? Blush of course, only unnoticed by everyone))

[yanus]

Quote: yanus

I quite believe in uninhabited BO, but "robotic" - they lie and do not blush.

I see not everyone understands the essence of robotics. For example, in the same TOP or the latest anti-aircraft gun modules for ships, the essence of the operator’s work is to decide whether to open fire or not. In principle, one can make it all happen without human intervention.
That is, a robotic BO for a tank must itself find, identify, prioritize, accompany targets. It will not happen. the operators will independently search for and recognize goals, they will set the target tracking machine to the maximum.
As soon as the essence of the concept of "robotization" becomes clear, it will immediately become clear that the same UAV is not a radio-controlled model.

[Basileus]

The target tracking machine is the same robot) That's what the machine is for.

[abrakadabre]

Hmm ... But on the assembly line, for example, is a robot. He doesn’t make decisions. None. Only follows the inherent program. But at the same time it is considered an industrial robot.
On the other hand, Japanese crafts that run and play football just fall under your definition of independent decisions.

[mithridate]

Better to see once than hear a hundred times

[x.andvlad]

It is also written there - chatically robotic. And this concept is loose. In general, I would like to see all this in real form and not in the toy collection.

[Russ69]

Beautifully painted ... Just a hotz, do not hear the same thing, what time. And to see clearly, but better to feel ...

[Sochi]

I am generally confused by the crewless fighting compartment, the slightest malfunction and the tank is incapable. And in battle, get out and fix the malfunction ... you can find a more humane way of suicide. I think that it was possible to solve the issue of crew security more reasonably.

[Basileus]

Maybe you have some rational suggestions?

[Sochi]

they can be found a lot, for example, to place the ammunition at the back of the fighting compartment and to separate it with an armor plate leaving a window for feeding into the carousel of loading, so in the fighting compartment there will be no more than two three charges and they can be closed from defeat.

[Bort radist]

Direct project "Glucose", everyone heard but no one saw it. I would like to believe that the secrecy regime is being revived. About "Buran" talk in 75 was already doing something, and flew at 88 meters. We are waiting and hope

[marder4]

when they show, finally ??? otherwise it’s just talk ...

[eugen-medved]

Yeah, we all play toyshttp: //topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/650/ynws346.jpg

[lelikas]

Quote: eugen-medved

Yeah we all play toys

Cool ! The funny thing is that I'm doing this at the moment;)
It is still a pity that the first planes disappeared.

[Yugra]

Even the great secrecy of these models, but only so that they are

[nazgul-ishe]

According to the website kbptula.ru, the show was held on September 25 and 26 in a special closed pavilion, where the country's leadership
The country's leadership is moving on the Mercier and the opinion of the military is needed.

[andr1966a]

He can’t do without Medvedev. The most important specialist.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: tun1313

I meant access to the BO from the inside to eliminate non-regular situations,

Of course I agree.
This is very categorically desirable.
Let's see how they do it.

[lpd1]

Will be - let's see! While the conversation is about nothing.

[Altona]

Let them show a really tested prototype, and any designer can sculpt clay tanks ...

[Prishtina]

Quote: Altona

Let them show a really tested prototype, and any designer can sculpt clay tanks ...

and a Chemondan with a red button, do not want to use ??!

[Altona]

I don’t need a suitcase, and the tank’s running layout at least, during this time it was possible to imagine ...

[avg]

The people are tuned for a miracle. Everyone expects it to be the most self-propelled self-shooting craft. It is urgent to lower the bar otherwise disappointment is inevitable.

[Prishtina]

Quote: Altona

I don’t need a suitcase, and the tank’s running layout at least, during this time it was possible to imagine ...

I wonder why you decided so? where the terms come from .. 7 rinks, tracks, a tower, a gun - that’s how it works

But seriously ... introduced to whom? you? a person on the forum is not under svomi name? or 95% of Russians who do not distinguish 72nd from 90th? or just for "forum residents" fans to discuss in 99,9% while not having anything behind their backs except a wiki and their own chuyka