Military Review

Genuine Hero Time

120
It must be admitted that the information and propaganda war, which is being waged against Russia by its enemies, has completely achieved its goals. This is most noticeable in the southern, Caucasian direction. After both Chechen campaigns, which did not end, as expected, with our complete victory, there is no longer a consensus on the need to "hold" the Caucasus or recruit natives from this region. In society, including in the army and law enforcement, there has been an increase in both anti-Caucasian, chauvinistic, and anti-Russian, or rather, Russophobic, sentiments. This can not but affect the moral and psychological climate in the units and divisions, not affect their combat readiness; significantly reduces the effectiveness of the use of troops in the performance of combat missions All these questions and problems did not receive, in my opinion, timely and properly evaluated by the government and security forces.


Union of the Sword and the Cross

alt One of the measures to increase and raise the morale, as the main component of the complex of moral and psychological support for the troops, should be the formation of military personnel confidence in the rightness and adequacy of perception of the situation, developing from various information sources. It is for these “points” that our opponents work, depriving servicemen of national identity and the ability to freely navigate in the historical and spiritual space, using the potential accumulated by generations.

Obviously, to solve this important problem, it is necessary, first of all, at the official level, to recognize what is an immutable, but forgotten fact: historically Russia exists, relying on two pillars: the Army and the Church. When the enemies managed to pull down one of these pillars, the state collapsed. But, thanks to the existence of the second, relying on him, she always managed not only to resurrect, but also to restore her combat potential, inflating what had been lost. This blessed union of the Sword and the Cross is the true guarantor of our national security.

Evening (p) Allies of Russia

There is no need to go far for examples: XIII-XV century, the Horde invasion, which completely ruined the country, deprived it not only of troops, but also of state sovereignty. The only support and support of the Russian people in those years remained the Church, thanks to which, not only were the forces gathered, but the pagan was broken first, and then, with the acceptance of Islam by the invaders, and Muslim spiritual proselytism. The horde disintegrated under the blows of not only internal strife and conspiracies, but also because of the stubborn, first of all, spiritual resistance of the Russian people, who did not want to adopt other people's traditions, customs, and faith. The opposite happened: many Horde, noble Tatar Murza, accepting Orthodoxy, went to the service of Russia and honestly served it, initiating many princely and noble families. Everyone also remembers that before the Kulikovo battle, Moscow’s Prince Dmitry Donskoy went for advice and blessing not just anywhere - to the shaman magicians or the Pope, but to the “lamp of the Russian land” to St. Sergius of Radonezh. And the “standing on the Ugra”, which put an official end to the yoke, ended in our victory, largely thanks to the support of the Rostov Archbishop Vassian of the hesitant Ivan the Third.

The beginning of the XVII century. Time of Troubles and the Polish-Lithuanian-Swedish invasion. The actual occupation of most of the country, the absence of a regular army, treasury, laws and de facto independence. In Moscow, traitors to the boyars are preparing to receive the embassy and approve the kingdom of the West's protege, the Polish prince, but the plans of the invaders and traitors do not come true because of the firm position of Patriarch Hermogenes, who refused to recognize the pope's protege and raised the people to the militia with his letters and appeals. For this, he was starved to death in the basement of the Chudov Monastery in the Kremlin.

The beginning of the twentieth century. The revolution that destroyed the greatest world power and its armed forces, attempts to create a new state and army and terrible persecution of the Church. It would seem, what is the relationship here? But those who stood behind the organizers of the coup knew perfectly well what we forgot about today: “In order to do away with Russia, it is necessary to destroy both of its pillars — the two foundations.” That is why the attacks on the Russian Army and the Church were parallel and frantic pace. The army of the Russian Empire, with its glorious traditions, effectively managed to destroy the enemies. The Church was on the verge of liquidation. By 1941, only three hierarchs of the ROC remained at large, all monasteries were destroyed and closed (from several hundred existing before 1917), only about 100 temples (from 78 thousands of former ones before the revolution) operated on the territory of the RSFSR.

The war broke out showed the weakness of the Red Army’s leadership being cherished, the unwillingness of many of its soldiers and commanders to withstand the onslaught of the German army. In that difficult period for the country, despite the persecution and oppression experienced, the Russian Orthodox Church fully and unconditionally supported the government, calling on the second day of the war, believers (who, according to recently declassified census data of 19/7, were more than unbelievers), came out through the mouths of the patriarchal locum tenens Sergius (Stragorodsky) to defend the homeland. Throughout the war, the Church actively helped the state and authorities, organizing fundraising to help the front, building at its own expense tank the Dmitry Donskoy column and the Alexander Nevsky air squadron. Russia completely regained its power by 1943, not only having won such an important victory on the Kursk Bulge, but also having restored the Patriarchate, having concluded an alliance of the state with the Church, which had been virtually re-broken by Peter.

1991 year. With the collapse of the USSR, the Soviet Army, which was now considered the most powerful in the world, ceased to exist. What then kept the country, balancing on the verge of slipping into civil war and economic collapse? What are the powers? Without a doubt, they should include the Church (her prayers), whose voice, finally, began to sound free, and the authority to grow exponentially, incl. among politicians, military personnel and law enforcement officers.

In our time we see a similar picture. The Russian army, despite all the attempts to break its neck, showed its resilience and fighting capacity in the severe trials of both Chechen and Georgian campaigns, stood up under the harsh blows of reformers-shorteners and is gaining strength today, making up for lost time. The church, on the contrary, after flirting with her, trying to embed it in the fairway of compromising policy directed against the interests of Russia, today is fiercely attacked by Western liberals who control the media, creating a powerful information attack on its first people and Christ Himself . This once again confirms the dual unity of the main task of our enemies: to destroy the alliance of the Army and the Church, having undermined both the state-forming pillars.

The military leadership should proceed from this, using the church experience of loyalty to Russia and uncompromising standing in the Truth. It remains to figure out what is the accumulated experience of the Church, which can be useful to the Army excommunicated from it for a long time.

From the captivity of oblivion

But before rushing from one extreme to another, I would suggest taking into account the experience and mistakes of the past. For example, why did the powerful party propaganda apparatus of the GlavPUR SA and the Navy, which penetrated through all the army structures from top to bottom, could not oppose anything to the weakly organized destructive forces that had destroyed the army and the state from the inside? Obviously, one of the reasons for such a clear ideological defeat was the ineffectiveness of the communist propaganda machine, its ideological narrow-mindedness, death and pattern, which therefore lost to the national liberals against the background of always freshly sounded slogans and ideas about freedom, equality and separatism.

Today, as noted above, the issue of interethnic and inter-ethnic relations in military teams is very acute. Official propaganda related to the current unprincipled (Art.13) and secularized (Art.14) Constitution is not able to give the soldiers the required answer and examples of solving this issue. But is it really not solved this problem even within the framework of the current legislation? Does the Basic Law prevent people from turning to the roots of their roots, glorious victories and heroes of campaigns and wars of the past? By no means.

What is it worth alone historical the fact of the capture of Kazan by the troops of Ivan the Terrible? Who “silenced” him, depriving the Russian people of not only national pride, self-awareness and historical memory, but today allowing ethnic separatists to speculate on this, depriving us of the opportunity to respond to it with reason? But only the fact that over the years of the existence of this khanate, up to 5 million Russian people were taken prisoner through Kazan, makes everything clear and easily explainable! And who will name the Russian heroes - participants of that heroic siege? The same can be said about the victories of the chieftain Ermak, who, with a squad of several hundred people, joined the vast expanses of Siberia to Russia. Who today remembers the names of associates of Ermak Timofeevich: Ivan Koltso, Yakov Mikhailov, Matvey Meshcheryakov, Andrei Voeikov and others?

Heroic examples of the actions of Russian troops during the war in the Caucasus were also hushed up by post-Soviet ideologists. The then inhabitants of those little-known and hard-to-reach edges, were much wilder and bloodthirsty than their current descendants and yet the Caucasus was conquered by the Russian soldier! What did we know when joining the Caucasian campaign about the heroes of the first Caucasian war: A.P. Yermolov, N.P. Sleptsov, N.I. Evdokimov, A.A. Veliyaminov, Yu.P. Katsyrev, M. G. Vlasov, AO Osipove and many, many others, whose glorious feats, examples did not suffice for our soldiers during both of the current Caucasian campaigns? Who knows that the unkillable “Shaitan-boklyu”, who terrified the Chechens, was Cossack General Ya.P. Baklanov with him at the peak of the badge — the black banner with the head of Adam and the words from the Christian creed: “I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the next century. Amen!".

The source of the numerous and glorious victories of the Russians over the Turks and Persians, our eternal opponents in the southern direction, was not emphasized. Islam and then replaced the ideology of these warlike nations, stood at the head of their political systems. At the expense of what won the Russian miracle heroes, sometimes armed worse than supplied with English weapons Janissaries of the Ottoman Empire, conquered all the nearest nations? Due to the predominance of the Russian spirit, the source of which was in the deep religiosity of our people, which AV Suvorov, FF Ushakov, P. S. Nakhimov, MD Skobelev testified more than once ...

The victories and heroes of the Russo-Japanese (with the happy exception of “Varyag”) war and renamed for the sake of the prevailing ideology from the Second Patriotic (First World War) to the imperialist war were deliberately hushed up. What does the current generation of warriors know about the exploits of the Stereguschy destroyer, the soul of Port Arthur’s defense, General Roman Kondratenko; reflecting the attacks of the Germans for more than six months (!)? And what did they hear about the indigenous wild division formed from the Highlanders of the Caucasus - one of the most combat-ready units of the Russian army? Who studied her experience when, for example, during the cavalry attack at the Galician village of Tsu-Babino jumped ahead of everyone, shaking the Quran, and the mullah followed him with a cry of “Allah akbar!” Flew, ready to die for Russia, horsemen, many of whom were past abreks?

What are the conclusions, if after almost a hundred years since its beginning, in Russia at the state level is not open and a single monument to its heroes!

Victims of agitprop

And on which heroes was brought up the younger generation of builders of communism, who surrendered the Soviet Union without a fight? Did any of them include people defending national interests, i.e. interests, first of all, state-forming Russian people, their faith, traditions, culture? The first to be heard are the heroes of the civil (essentially fratricidal) war, drained away, mythologized and fairly retouched: Chuvash V.I. Chapaev, Moldovans M.V.Frunze and S.G.Lazo, Ukrainians (Little Russians) N.A.Schors, С .M.Budenny, G.I. Kotovsky. Who will remember their ideals that meet not only today's, but also the then demands of Soviet youth? In practice, it turns out that these are people - representatives of small peoples of Russia, its national outskirts shed the blood of the Russian people for a bright future, which no one ever waited for.

The following are the heroes of the closer and more comprehensible to us of the Great Patriotic War: G.K.Zhukov, K.K.Rokossovsky, I.Konev, Z.A.Kosmodemyanskaya, N.F.Gastello, V.V. Talalikhin, I. N. Kozhedub ... They are much more. Only Heroes of the Soviet Union over 12000. But in their often retouched biographies, attention was focused, as a rule, on the focus on the victory of the Soviet socialist system, on the loyalty of the party and the cause of Lenin-Stalin. Already at dusk, perestroika, as if having recollected itself, began to reveal the national composition of the heroes, almost 80% of whom turned out to be Russian. And how many copies still break over the feat of A.Matrosov, “28 Panfilov’s”? Was the fact of unparalleled heroism or is it more literary mythologization to which political commissars were inclined?

The next are the heroes of the Damansky and Afghan wars. For a long time it was not accepted to remember the heroes of the frontier guards who stopped the Chinese expansion for a long time, for political reasons. And what about the nearly hundred "Afghans" who received the highest award of the country whose interests they defended "behind the river"? Today, that war, having crossed the water line, has already come to us, and the question of who and why was given fraternal assistance in the form of international debt, for some time, weighs on their real feats. If we include here a rather weak awareness of pre-draft and troop youth about the Heroes of Russia of both Chechen campaigns, the number of which exceeded half a thousand people, then the picture will turn out to be very sad and unattractive. And by itself the conclusion suggests itself: in Russia there is no ideal, a standard of the national hero, a symbol of the national pride of the Russians, capable of uniting the people, giving it an example of triumph!

"There is no more than that love ..."

But they may well become the Russian saints carefully preserved by the Church. Among them, almost a third belong to the military class. Among them, one of the most authoritative national heroes of the past, Alexander Nevsky and his youngest son, Prince of Moscow of Moscow, who in 1300, inflicted the first defeat in the history of Russia on the invaders. It is noteworthy that both father and son ended their lives as monks. This and the great-grandson of Daniel - Prince Dmitry Donskoy. Among our saints - the princes Mikhail Tverskoy - the first Russian military leader killed in the Caucasus in 1318 and tortured to prison in faithfulness to Vera and the Fatherland, Roman Ryazansky and Mikhail Chernigovsky. Among them, Prince Mstislav, nicknamed for his courage and numerous deeds of the Brave, and the warrior Mercury Smolensky, who came out alone against a thousand. Among them are the epic hero Ilya Muromets (whose relics are now openly buried in the Kiev Pechersk Lavra), the legendary monks Alexander Peresvet and Rodion Oslyabya and the glorious prince Dovmont-Timofey Pskovsky.

The latter, not having a single defeat in his numerous military campaigns against his belligerent neighbors, at the age of seventy years, with a tenfold smaller squad, defeated the Germans under the walls of Pskov, defeating the Master of the Livonian Order in a duel. Among our saints is the righteous warrior Fedor (Ushakov) - the celebrated admiral who repeatedly smashed the Turkish fleet and who did not have a single defeat from the Muslims who are catching up on fear today. In fact, the invincible “Angel Suvorov” and the warrior Yevgeny Rodionov, a Russian soldier who was captured by insurgents in the 1996 year and accepted a fierce death for refusing to remove his pectoral cross and convert to Islam, are honored by the people.

In addition to the multitude of military qualities, all these people had two more at first glance peaceful, rejected by contemporaries - patience and humility. Humility (not before the enemy) before the will of God — fate, when, for example, the choice of commander to remain to cover the retreat of the rest, falls on you. After all, being actually sentenced to death, to continue to fight to the last drop of blood, you can only resign yourself to the thought of death. It is such soldiers who deliberately sacrifice themselves, who did not disgrace their name and weapons - carriers of real military honor. It was thanks to such as they managed to stop, wear down, weaken the enemy, inspiring him with a terrible and irresistible idea of ​​the invincibility of the Russians.

The sacrifice of sacrifice: “There is no more love for the one who puts his soul for his friends” stands above all in the Church, since it corresponds to the feat of Christ, who voluntarily went to the cross to set an example for people of real patience and humility. It is these qualities that, owing to their mentality, are deprived of many peoples professing Islam, where low-literate and often self-proclaimed “imams” are immediately “recorded” into martyrs for martyrs for the zombie suicides-kamikazis who are put into the flow.

Patiently withstand the onslaught, in order to then suddenly fall upon the enemy, can only a Russian soldier who has humbled himself to death. This riddle of the Russian soldier’s sacrificial resilience, which delighted all our opponents in a row, has only one explanation - the Gospel: “There is no more that love who will lay down their souls for their friends”. It should become the basis of a victorious national ideology and the best answer to the Russophobes who settled on the information spaces of a country called Russia.
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  1. Warrawar
    Warrawar 16 September 2013 12: 26 New
    -43
    Let the scoop be damned.
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 16 September 2013 12: 42 New
      20
      Scoop is a tool for dispensing bulk materials. However, some sick people see in him something more, and even showered with curses, well, what can be expected from such?
    2. Anper
      Anper 16 September 2013 12: 56 New
      +2
      And that's always the way. The spitters and followers of the spitters (very often the ignorant) are darkness. And all somehow surreptitiously. hayut, knowing that they will not answer to anyone - hence the pathos "Let the scoop be damned". And they do not even notice that all this pathos runs counter to Christian values, which they allegedly follow in this article.
      When will they see and will they see at all?
    3. Natalia
      Natalia 16 September 2013 13: 05 New
      15
      Quote: Warrawar
      Let the scoop be damned.

      Yes, it’s not necessary so categorically ... to be honest, I myself was not a supporter of the Soviet system, however, paying attention to a number of features, it becomes clear that ... in general, Russians can be divided into two large groups: the first are supporters of the Soviet system, the second is its opponents, supporters of the Orthodox culture.
      Conclusion:
      Based on the mistakes of the past, we must respect each other, the communist must respect the Orthodox, and the Orthodox communist ... it's like racial tolerance, only here is ideological. There are (and were) worthy people both in the ranks of the Communists and in the ranks of (Orthodox). We have one country, and once again we have no right to fight among ourselves. Let's respect each other ...

      In addition, Russia today, ideologically, reminds me of a combination of Orthodox culture and at the same time as a tribute to the Soviet culture, because there were red stars .... These red stars are still a symbol of danger and indignation for the West winked
      I wonder how to combine this, well, let's say like this ...
      1. V. Tarasyan
        V. Tarasyan 16 September 2013 13: 10 New
        18
        The eagle is cool, the truth somehow looks aggressive.
        But seriously, I do not see fundamental differences between the Soviet system and the Orthodox. Both are based on community and mutual assistance.
        1. Alexei
          Alexei 16 September 2013 18: 26 New
          -2
          Quote: V. Tarasyan
          I do not see fundamental differences between the Soviet system and the Orthodox. Both are based on community and mutual assistance.

          Yes there is a difference. You can repent in the Orthodox if more than Che, but in the Soviet ... and rightly so - done it, answer. It is necessary to believe, but as for the church, it is the work of human hands, not of God.
      2. Tartary
        Tartary 16 September 2013 13: 25 New
        +7
        Quote: Natalia
        Quote: Warrawar
        Let the scoop be damned.

        Yes, it’s not necessary so categorically ... to be honest, I myself was not a supporter of the Soviet system, however, paying attention to a number of features, it becomes clear that ... in general, Russians can be divided into two large groups: the first are supporters of the Soviet system, the second is its opponents, supporters of the Orthodox culture.
        Conclusion:
        Based on the mistakes of the past, we must respect each other, the communist must respect the Orthodox, and the Orthodox communist ... it's like racial tolerance, only here is ideological. There are (and were) worthy people both in the ranks of the Communists and in the ranks of (Orthodox). We have one country, and once again we have no right to fight among ourselves. Let's respect each other ...

        In addition, Russia today, ideologically, reminds me of a combination of Orthodox culture and at the same time as a tribute to the Soviet culture, because there were red stars .... These red stars are still a symbol of danger and indignation for the West winked
        I wonder how to combine this, well, let's say like this ...


        A mistake, however, dear Natalia ...

        Supporters of the Soviet system were not at all opponents of the Orthodox culture.
        With the exception of zealous (read radical) atheists, often champions of careerism ... Such selfish careerists did not give a damn against which religion or other .... isms to "drive the wave", if only in the stream of party and government politics.

        And what, there are few of them today ?? Or was it not enough under the tsarist regime?
        1. knn54
          knn54 16 September 2013 14: 58 New
          +2
          - Tartary: Supporters of the Soviet system were not at all opponents of the Orthodox culture.
          What could be expected from Sverdlov, Trotsky and Co.
          Warrawar, read- http://com-stol.ru/?p=8107 Comparison of the “Sermon on the Mount of Christ” and the “Moral Code of the Builder of Communism”.
          After the collapse of the USSR, in front of the Churches, they began to build Mosques ...
          GENUINE Heroes did not strive for fame, Homeland is more important.
        2. IGS
          IGS 16 September 2013 15: 54 New
          +6
          I would also add that now the Orthodox Church is persecuted much more, threatening its basic foundations, trying to split it, which, oddly enough, was not even in the USSR, with all its scientifically based atheistic propaganda, if only in the first years of the Soviet power, and that power quickly came to his senses. Yes, and the values ​​claimed by communism are largely consistent with the Orthodox faith, if it were otherwise, socialism and communism would have no chance of existing in any manifestation in our country.
        3. vladsolo56
          vladsolo56 16 September 2013 16: 09 New
          0
          Quote: Tartary
          With the exception of zealous (read radical) atheists, often champions of careerism ... Such selfish careerists did not give a damn against which religion or other .... isms to "drive the wave", if only in the stream of party and government politics.

          With the same success, I can say about careerists from the faith. This article is an example of this, is it really difficult to understand that faith is a personal matter of everyone, and those who raise a wave on this subject are careerists who are no longer important. Do you believe Believe me, who is opposed to it, only some of this is not enough for them, they itch, they all need to stand under the cross, and if someone does not want to, then he is an outcast, not ours, bought by the West. Maybe people should be divided not into believers and atheists, but into decent and scoundrels?
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 16 September 2013 16: 22 New
            -1
            Quote: vladsolo56
            Believe me, who is opposed to it, only some of this is not enough for them, they itch, they all need to stand under the cross, and if someone does not want to, then he is an outcast, not ours, bought by the West.


            It seems to me that you have a hypertrophied imagination and banal anticlerical horror stories that you try to "feed" on almost every topic with a religious bias.
            1. vladsolo56
              vladsolo56 16 September 2013 16: 26 New
              +1
              Well, do you carry out religious propaganda with the same success, or is it possible for you, but not for me?
              1. GreatRussia
                GreatRussia 16 September 2013 17: 31 New
                -1
                Quote: vladsolo56
                well, you just as well carry out religious propaganda

                About how!
                And where do I spend her?
                Try-on is possible in the studio?
        4. Vadivak
          Vadivak 16 September 2013 16: 28 New
          +5
          Quote: Tartary
          Supporters of the Soviet system were not at all opponents of the Orthodox culture.


          Immediately after the October Revolution, the authorities set the goal of arresting as many priests and clergymen and laity as possible, the arrests were then estimated in the thousands and for many ended in martyrdom. Entire counties of such provinces as Perm, Stavropol, Kazan, lost their clergy. This period lasted until 1920, and in those territories where the Bolsheviks seized power later, as, for example, in the Far East, the time of brutal persecution fell on 1922. It was the same during the campaign organized by the Soviet government to seize church property in 1922 g., when a lot of lawsuits were held in the country, some of which ended in executions. In the years 1923-1928. Hundreds of clergy and laity were arrested, but there were almost no death sentences. The intensification of terror against the Church on an all-Russian scale, which led to mass executions and arrests, occurred in 1929-1931, and in some areas continued until 1933. In 1934-1936. the number of arrests decreased; almost no death sentences were imposed. In the years 1937-1938. the terror intensified again, almost all the clergy and many faithful laymen were arrested, more than 2/3 of the temples operating in 1935 were closed, the existence of a church organization was threatened. In the postwar years, churches continued to close, although the number of arrests and death sentences against clergymen declined. At the end of the 50s – 60s increased state pressure on the Church, mainly consisting in the closure of churches and attempts to influence the supreme church administration through the Council on Religious Affairs. In the 70–80s the persecution took on an almost exclusively administrative character, the arrests of clergy and laity became sporadic. The end of the persecution can be attributed to the late 80s – early 90s, which was due to a change in the political system in the country.
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 16 September 2013 20: 24 New
            -1
            Quote: Vadivak
            In the years 1923-1928. Hundreds of clergy and laity were arrested ...

            The intensification of terror against the Church ... leading to mass executions and arrests, occurred in 1929–1931, and in some areas continued until 1933. In 1934–1936. ...

            In the years 1937-1938. the terror intensified again, almost all the clergy and many faithful laymen were arrested ...
            It is clear that now it is customary to blame everything on the fight against religion and declare the condemned as victims of faith, but is that so? Has anyone been puzzled by finding out the true reasons for the imposition of certain sentences?


            Article 127 deserves special attention.
          2. Tartary
            Tartary 17 September 2013 04: 32 New
            -1
            Quote: knn54
            What could be expected from Sverdlov, Trotsky and Co.

            Quote: Vadivak
            Entire counties of such provinces as Perm, Stavropol, Kazan, lost their clergy.

            Why have you stepped so far ??
            So you can reach the schism of the church in the Middle Ages ... stop

            We are talking more about stable times of the development of the USSR, and not about the time of struggle for new ideals ...
            Well then, give all the examples, both good and bad, and the appeal to the people of Orthodox priests in the Second World War, the appeal of Stalin to brothers and sisters, the subsequent support of the church by the Soviet government ...

            Not everything is as simple as you want to see ... And you all know about it yourself.
      3. Uncle
        Uncle 16 September 2013 18: 40 New
        +1
        Quote: Natalia
        Based on the mistakes of the past, we must respect each other, the communist must respect the Orthodox, and the Orthodox communist ... it's like racial tolerance, only here is ideological.

        I do not agree in a nice lady. The example of races is incorrect, because races are created by God and it is not up to us to judge this. And ideology has such deep roots that sometimes even adherents of one or another doctrine do not know where the legs grow from. Christians will never be able to tolerate the Communists, I recall that during the time of the Red Terror, only at the Butovo training ground, only priests and church clergy were shot at a hundred thousand. As people, we forgive our enemies, obey the commandment of Christ, but never recognize the godless ideology.
        1. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 16 September 2013 19: 42 New
          -2
          Quote: Uncle
          obey the commandment of Christ, but never recognize the godless ideology

          So no one fights with God !!! This is not necessary for sane people. They struggle with dishonest "clergy" who cover up their interests in the name of God.
          However, there are people who are fighting with God, these are just priests! Only they are fighting against God, interreligious strife - the phenomenon is called. This is when "our God is a real God, and their god is not real!"
        2. vladkavkaz
          vladkavkaz 16 September 2013 21: 02 New
          0
          Uncle (
          "that during the time of the Red Terror, only at the Butovo range were shot under a hundred thousand only priests and a church clergy" - why not a million at once ?? Are you able to show the remains of 100000 people? Can you imagine what a mountain of bones it is?
          Your whores give you a mossy liberoid, just as obsessed with demshiza, who cried all 90 years, then Butovo polygons, then about some kind of crap, but at the exit-A ON EXIT, the bones of the 13th century are already being given out as alleged victims of the NKVD.
        3. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 16 September 2013 23: 24 New
          0
          Quote: Uncle
          Christians can never tolerate communists
          This is understandable - in Christianity "there is no power not from God," and the ideas of communism presuppose equality and justice based on logic and sanity, and not on Hebrew myths.

          during the time of the Red Terror, only at Butovo polygon, only priests and church clergy were shot under a hundred thousand
          Look for data on the number of priests at the beginning of the 20th century - then together we neighing over the delusional allegations of millions of killed priests.
          1. Hon
            Hon 17 September 2013 09: 37 New
            0
            Quote: Yarosvet
            Look for data on the number of priests at the beginning of the 20th century - then together we neighing over the delusional allegations of millions of killed priests.

            And some were shot 3-4 times laughing
            1. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 17 September 2013 10: 31 New
              0
              Quote: Hon
              And some were shot 3-4 times
              And then!
              They used to import a couple of million priests from abroad, and let's shoot them!
    4. Tersky
      Tersky 16 September 2013 13: 11 New
      17
      Quote: Warrawar
      Let the scoop be damned.

      And what do you actually know about the "scoop"? Or are you only able to see the negative? And they forgot that in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, almost all the weapons were developed and released precisely during the union, that Russia received the same nuclear club from the USSR. That all the space projects are again from the USSR. MINUS!!! Cursing like the USSR you curse the past, but as you know, those who do not remember the past have no future.
    5. wulf66
      wulf66 16 September 2013 13: 24 New
      +8
      Sweeping never brings to good. I divide the time of the Soviet regime into the bloody orgy of the faithful Leninist Trotskyists and during the period when Stalin built the Great Power. But I am more and more inclined to the fact that the Stalinist regime looks a lot like a monarchy. The Communists did not create anything new, while there was a competent person at the helm (the one who knew what he wanted and what he was doing), there was a way forward, but it painfully quickly degenerated and did not last a century.
      1. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 16 September 2013 21: 07 New
        -1
        "" I divide the time of Soviet power into the bloody bacchanalia of the loyal Leninist Trotskyists "" WHAT nonsense ... What do Lenin and Trotsky have in common?
        With what hangover, you combine not connected history - you didn’t learn history, repeat the nonsense of lagitprop, who so generously takes away unstable brains?
        And before that provocateur Trotsky, who fought for power in the country with Lenin, with Stalin and tried to arrogate to himself the "right" to be Lenin's heir, not considering it a job even to participate in the funeral?
        Well, it’s necessary to end the CPC to write such nonsense ...
    6. Anper
      Anper 16 September 2013 13: 37 New
      0
      The dead are silent. Their countless army does not rise from the graves, does not scream at rallies, does not draw up resolutions, does not form an alliance, and does not have representatives on the council of workers 'and soldiers' deputies. They quietly decay in their unknown graves, indifferent to the noise of life and forgotten among it. Nevertheless, this army of the dead is the great - one might say, the greatest - political force of our life, and the fate of the living, perhaps for many generations, depends on its voice ... What would the dead think if they did not die, but stayed alive - there is, after all, a completely idle question; perhaps many of them would be just as sinful, blind, insane as those living that are hosting today. But they died and live transformed in the national soul. There, in this new deep life, they inextricably merged with that matter, with the faith for which they perished; their souls clearly speak about one thing - about the homeland, about the defense of the state, about the honor and dignity of the country; about the beauty of the feat and the shame of betrayal. In this transformed life, in the depths of the national spirit, in which they are henceforth a tremendous effective force, they murmur deafly against willful and unintentional betrayals, against democratized looting, against a meaningless and unscrupulous feast at their cemetery, against the theft of their native country, stained with their blood. We will honor the shadows of the dead in the soul of the people. And if we have already forgotten how to honor them, we will at least remember them enough to fear them and reckon with them. ”
      S.G. Kara - Murza. Manipulation of consciousness.
    7. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 16 September 2013 20: 30 New
      -2
      Roma Ilyushchenko wrote a stupid article, in the best traditions, of the most despicable of the former political workers, having mixed a bunch of real and a bunch of stinking lies.
      You, "Barbarian" looks like his nickname on this resource, and here you are trying to carry nonsense similar to the author of this article?
  2. mak210
    mak210 16 September 2013 12: 30 New
    +7
    All known empires collapsed when they began to understand nationalities (read about Byzantium). The main thing is co-religionists, no matter what: Christ, a bright future. It looks like this is waiting for us: in addition to the traditional faith, there are also Adventists, Satanists, UFOlogists and obscurantism in general. Muslims began to recruit into the tsarist army only in the era of total wars, and even then the Wild Division somehow did not show itself, mainly with the civilian population (read about the meeting with the First Horse).
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 16 September 2013 12: 32 New
      +2
      Quote: mak210
      All famous empires collapsed when they began to understand nationalities

      Therefore, it is necessary to build a mono-national state. And the country created according to the principle of "Babylon" is doomed from the beginning.
      1. V. Tarasyan
        V. Tarasyan 16 September 2013 13: 05 New
        +2
        And what do you think is a mononational state in our conditions? Independent farms and villages? According to this principle, we will be able to divide each region of the country into 100500 mono-ethnic states.
      2. Tersky
        Tersky 16 September 2013 13: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: Warrawar
        Therefore, it is necessary to build a mononational state

        Build, just don't forget about separatism and what size your mono-national "state" Russia will be.
        1. Warrawar
          Warrawar 16 September 2013 13: 40 New
          0
          Quote: Tersky
          Build, just don't forget about separatism and what size your mono-national "state" Russia will be.

          Separatism is underway in the Russian Federation. I’m not even talking about the Caucasus (this is already understandable). Here is an example of ripening separatism in the Leningrad region:
          http://www.ingria.info/
          All this is done with money from foreign countries (in this case, Norwegian). The reason for this is the absence of a national policy and endless delirium about a "multinational" state (the constant repetition of the mantra about a multinational state only aggravates the processes of separatism). Similar processes are taking place in all regions of Russia. Foreign states have spared no expense on grants for separatists.
          So the choice is small ... either Russia will be transformed into a Russian state or it will inevitably collapse. And in a few decades, such states as Ingermanland, Idel Ural, Vilnius Siberia, Pomorie, the Russian Republic of the Kuban (as part of Ukraine), the Caucasian Caliphate, etc. will appear on the world map.
          1. Tersky
            Tersky 16 September 2013 22: 02 New
            +3
            Quote: Warrawar
            All this is done with money from foreign countries (in this case, Norwegian). The reason for this is the absence of a national policy [u] and endless delirium about a "multinational" state [/ u] (the constant repetition of the mantra about a multinational state only aggravates the processes of separatism). Similar processes are taking place in all regions of Russia

            So what? What matters is mononational? Warm the topic further, it’s great. Separate the Caucasus, the Leningrad region, and what else bothers you there, maybe the Russians themselves? Prompt result? The STATE is, first of all, the STATE without any signs of mono-nationality. The basis of the State is the people and not its nationality.
            Quote: Warrawar [u
            ] Therefore, you need to build a mono-national state. And [/ u] the country created on the principle of "Babylon" is doomed from the beginning.
            Two completely opposite opinions from one person. Is this a dispute with yourself? Or an attempt to show off the mind-blowing? The next, (sadly) -, MINUS.
      3. tilovaykrisa
        tilovaykrisa 16 September 2013 13: 22 New
        0
        and you compare the mono-ethnic Germany 30 and many national Rome, and which of them lasted longer?
        1. Manager
          Manager 16 September 2013 14: 17 New
          +1
          Quote: tilovaykrisa
          and you compare the mono-ethnic Germany 30 and many national Rome, and which of them lasted longer?


          And whose collapse was stronger? Rome is still spoken of as something stately that one day collapsed with such force that my mother did not grieve. And Germany, and what Germany. It has been and still is.
      4. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 16 September 2013 20: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: Warrawar
        [Therefore, it is necessary to build a mononational state

        The Russian Federation is essentially a mononational state - and?
    2. Uncle
      Uncle 16 September 2013 18: 43 New
      +4
      Quote: mak210
      no matter what: Christ, a brighter future

      Well, you give, it’s important to believe what.
  3. rennim
    rennim 16 September 2013 12: 34 New
    +6
    Russia has always held on the people's faith in justice ... Now only she can unite everyone.
    In the meantime ...
    1. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 16 September 2013 14: 07 New
      +1
      I support you. Russia must adhere to justice and social equality of all peoples and nationalities of our country, every citizen.
      Only this national idea can keep Russia intact.
      And pushing the church and the Orthodox religion in modern Russia "into the pillars of the state" is harmful and dangerous, it is necessary to take into account the multi-confessional nature of our state. I myself am Orthodox, but I respect the choice of religion by other people and I believe that one should not exalt one religion and ignore and belittle other religions traditional for Russia.
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 September 2013 15: 12 New
        +4
        Quote: vladimirZ
        that one cannot exalt one religion and underestimate and belittle other religions traditional for Russia.

        What religions are belittled in Russia?
        In my opinion, on the contrary, with tolerasty in Russia, it’s too much, hence the different sects of the Western sects, who are just climbing into power.
      2. Uncle
        Uncle 16 September 2013 18: 44 New
        +2
        Quote: vladimirZ
        And pushing the church and the Orthodox religion in modern Russia "into the pillars of the state" is harmful and dangerous

        Quote: vladimirZ
        I myself am Orthodox

        You are Orthodox only by the fact of baptism, and by deeds - a typical liberal.
  4. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 16 September 2013 12: 40 New
    +4
    Horror, what a sore imagination. To claim that only the church will save Russia. What are they trying to bring us under the new Orthodox Inquisition?
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 16 September 2013 12: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: vladsolo56
      What are they trying to bring us under the new Orthodox Inquisition?

      Everything is easier
      1. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 16 September 2013 12: 55 New
        +2
        Exactly! + fat plus!
      2. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 September 2013 15: 17 New
        0
        Quote: Yarosvet
        Everything is easier

        Well, it started. Again swamp hamsters, anticlericals and neopagans with their govnemotivators climbed out.
        1. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 16 September 2013 19: 55 New
          -2
          Quote: GreatRussia
          govnemotivatorami.
          As messianic laughing
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 17 September 2013 10: 35 New
            0
            Quote: Yarosvet
            Like messianic laughing

            You know better. I'm not even churched.
    2. consul
      consul 16 September 2013 13: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: vladsolo56
      церковь


      The Church is the people of God, of which the hierarchy is a part (whether its individual representatives are good or bad, the question is different). In this sense, the author is right, and the history of our Fatherland is an example. And what is the Orthodox Inquisition? Orthodox Christians do not have Western thinking. will fail, at least from the material world.
    3. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 16 September 2013 15: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: vladsolo56
      What are they trying to bring us under the new Orthodox Inquisition?

      And what, did the Inquisition exist in Russia?
      Once again confused the Orthodox Church with Catholicism?
      1. vladsolo56
        vladsolo56 16 September 2013 16: 14 New
        -2
        And who said that the Inquisition cannot be, quite often they urge atheists to equate criminals, which is not like the Inquisition? Yes, the expression of the Inquisition in Russia was not, but take a look at history and find examples where you could easily imprison for blasphemy, and this is at least.
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 16 September 2013 17: 26 New
          +2
          Quote: vladsolo56
          quite often they urge atheists to equate criminals, is that not like the Inquisition?

          Who and where? Can specific names, surnames, titles, quotes and links?
          Or again came down religious mythology?


          but look into the history and find examples when they could easily put for blasphemy and this is at least.

          Drop in more than once. Units were planted, mainly for incitement and riots.
      2. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 16 September 2013 20: 41 New
        -3
        Quote: GreatRussia
        [And what, did the Inquisition exist in Russia?
        Once again confused the Orthodox Church with Catholicism?
      3. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 16 September 2013 20: 54 New
        -2
        -------------------------------------------------- -
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 17 September 2013 03: 41 New
          0
          Well? You yourself read what you bring? No?
          FOR TALKS or SEDUCTION. Those. DECEPTION.
          Those. the same techniques as in modern western sects. I understand your desire to publicize in black light the religion that you, the neo-pagans, hate. Well, then it’s not necessary to go down to primitivism.
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 17 September 2013 10: 52 New
            -2
            Quote: GreatRussia
            FOR TALKS or SEDUCTION. Those. DECEPTION.
            Not for deception, but for advertising.
            And if people fell for this ad and remain firm in their decision, then to hell with him, and not the estate. Or in jail up to 2 years - and even children will be taken away (such is the analogue of juvenile justice).

            Here the falsehood of ranting about free will and choice becomes clear.

            Those. the same techniques as in modern western sects.
            Yes - the same techniques as in sects, the same as in Christianity.

            Well, then it’s not necessary to go down to primitivism.
            So why do you stoop to primitivism and draw a conclusion about my attitude to religion by my nickname? laughing
            1. GreatRussia
              GreatRussia 17 September 2013 11: 23 New
              0
              Quote: Yarosvet
              Not for deception, but for advertising.
              And if people fell for this ad and remain firm in their decision, then to hell with him, and not the estate. Or in jail up to 2 years - and even children will be taken away (such is the analogue of juvenile justice).

              Here the falsehood of ranting about free will and choice becomes clear.

              It is for deception. This is called agitprop. Just look at the example of stupefying Goebbels propaganda. Not for nothing that the top of the rebels remained aloof from self-immolation, seducing ordinary people. yes

              Yes - the same techniques as in sects, the same as in Christianity.

              No, not the same. Rather, it can be compared with activists from godlessness.

              So why do you stoop to primitivism and draw a conclusion about my attitude to religion by my nickname? laughing

              Why so primitize? Your nickname is just a small indirect sign. For your affairs ... Or rather, for posts with aggressive anti-Orthodoxy out of the blue and so everything is perfectly visible.
              1. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 17 September 2013 13: 48 New
                0
                Quote: GreatRussia
                It is for deception. This is called agitprop.
                Exactly what agitprop. And if this is a fraud, then any denomination of any religion is engaged in the same fraud, since there are promises, but there is no evidence of their fulfillment.

                As for the top of the "rebels" who remained on the sidelines, there are not many differences with Nikonianism in terms of double standards: it does not fit into the logic that comrades are broadcasting that everything is in the hands of God, that holy things and faith are of greater importance than human life , at the same time, they do not go out into the street without protection.

                No, not the same. Rather, you can compare with activists from godlessness
                But how not those when the same?
                Even under the signs of a totalitarian sect, Christianity falls to the same extent as any traditional religion along with recognized sects.

                More precisely, on posts with aggressive anti-Orthodoxy out of the blue and so everything is perfectly visible.
                That is, my rejection of unsubstantiated statements mixed with outright lies is an anti-Orthodox action and classifies me as neopagans? laughing
                1. GreatRussia
                  GreatRussia 17 September 2013 14: 16 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  Exactly what agitprop. And if this is a fraud, then any denomination of any religion is engaged in the same fraud, since there are promises, but there is no evidence of their fulfillment.

                  Really? and what have you been promised and deceived in Christianity? Have you already been tried in the final judgment?
                  Here is nonsense, so nonsense.
                  Come on in your anti-Christian agitprop promised?

                  Quote: Yarosvet

                  .... that the comrades are broadcasting that everything is in God's hands, that shrines and faith are more important than human life, while they do not go outside without protection.

                  Honestly, deep down to the bulb, what you can’t fit there. The killing of a high-ranking clergyman can provoke a reaction among unrestrained believers or non-believers.




                  But how not those when the same?
                  Even under the signs of a totalitarian sect, Christianity falls to the same extent as any traditional religion along with recognized sects.

                  Yes, and not those.
                  Just the same, your unreasoned outbursts have all the signs of outbursts of those same adherents of totalitarian sects who are still leading the active black PR of traditional religions of Russia. bully


                  That is, my rejection of unsubstantiated statements mixed with outright lies is an anti-Orthodox action and classifies me as neopagans? laughing

                  Which ones? For the time being, it was you who flooded here with unsubstantiated statements and a primitive anti-Orthodox agitukha a la modern neopagans and those same Western sectarians.
                  1. Yarosvet
                    Yarosvet 17 September 2013 15: 45 New
                    -1
                    Quote: GreatRussia
                    and what have you been promised and deceived in Christianity?
                    Talking about free will and choice is not a hoax? And the contradictions in the scripture? And the variability of interpretations of scripture? And talk about humanity amid bullying and murder?

                    Honestly, deep down to the bulb, what you can’t fit there. The killing of a high-ranking clergyman can provoke a reaction among unrestrained believers or non-believers
                    If the will of God is there, what about this statement replicated by Christians? What about non-resistance to evil by violence?

                    Yes, and not those.
                    Just the same, your unreasoned outbursts have all the signs of outbursts of those same adherents of totalitarian sects
                    A curious conclusion ...
                    Below I will lay out a screen with the signs of a totalitarian sect - do you agree with the correctness of these signs?

                    Which ones?
                    Starting with the statement that there is a god, and ending with the statement that the god of Christians is the true and only one.
                    Starting with the reliability of the events described by the bible, and ending with the adequacy of their interpretation.

                    1. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 17 September 2013 16: 10 New
                      0
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Talking about free will and choice is not a hoax? And the contradictions in the scripture? And the variability of interpretations of scripture?

                      And once again, I advise you to familiarize yourself with such concepts as the Will of God and Acceptance, otherwise you and I simply have nothing to talk about, because you carry near-Christian nonsense that has nothing to do with Orthodoxy.

                      Quote: Yarosvet

                      And talk about humanity amid bullying and murder?

                      What talk and what bullying and killing? You broadcast a primitive slogan again.


                      Quote: Yarosvet

                      If the will of God is there, what about this statement replicated by Christians? What about non-resistance to evil by violence?

                      It is replicated by you, because you are hopelessly illiterate in religion. And in Orthodoxy, in addition to this, there are such concepts as Letting the Lord, Letting and the will of man, etc. etc., which are interconnected, are directly related to each other and cause-effect relationships.
                      Due to the aforementioned illiteracy, this is not known to you, therefore, you broadcast a primitive idea and a template evaluative opinion.


                      Quote: Yarosvet

                      A curious conclusion ...
                      Below I will lay out a screen with the signs of a totalitarian sect - do you agree with the correctness of these signs?

                      Undoubtedly.
                      1. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 16: 10 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Yarosvet

                        Starting with the statement that there is a god, and ending with the statement that the god of Christians is the true and only one.
                        Starting with the reliability of the events described by the bible, and ending with the adequacy of their interpretation.

                        And what? Pseudoscience also has the overwhelming majority of signs of a scientific approach and methods, however, some signs distinguish it from real science.

                        So it is here. For example, clause 8 does not coincide with the statement in the Russian Orthodox Church, breaking your comparisons into fluff and feathers:

                        Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill compared the Church to a hospital and spoke about the errors of its critics.

                        "The biggest mistake and the biggest delusion of many critics is to look at the Church from top to bottom and from the outside and, noticing certain imperfections, build on these observations a crushing criticism not only of the Church, but also of faith itself," the patriarch said on the air of the Slovo pastor "on the First channel.

                        According to him, the Church is fighting "or, as the holy fathers said, the Church is militant - militant with sin - will carry out its ministry."

                        "This will never be a simple and comfortable business, it will always be accompanied by struggle, and we will all fight for human salvation in the Church. Everyone in the past and everyone in the future is involved in this great act of salvation of the human soul - both the clergy and believers." , - he said.

                        As the primate noted, it is important that "those who look from the outside" realize their involvement, and come to the temple as soon as possible, and change the position of an outside observer to the position of an accomplice "in the great work of spiritual salvation of the human race, which is taking place in the Church. and through the Church by Divine power. "

                        Pointing out that the Church is a community of healing, he compared it to a hospital. The patriarch noted that this is not a sanatorium, "where recovered people walk along the beautiful alleys of the park, enjoy life, rejoice at their healing," but a semblance of an emergency room, "where people with broken limbs, bleeding, are brought from which both smell and look everything is so unsightly and repulsive ", this is an operating room where blood is shed and where not everyone can enter without the risk of losing consciousness."

                        “Those who look at the Church from the outside criticize the Church for the fact that not everything is in order. But the surgeon who has just performed the operation has a coat smeared with blood, how unattractive everything is. And what if the surgeon makes a mistake? We know how it ends and how much criticism will fall on such a doctor. It's the same in the Church, "Patriarch Kirill emphasized.

                        According to him, sometimes criticism is directed at the Church, especially its ministers, "that you, they say, do not correspond to the ideal." However, the patriarch continued, the Christian ideal cannot be fully realized in the lives of people, without adjusting for human weakness and sinfulness, because this ideal is Christ.

                        "In every person there is sin and there is weakness. However, we do not reject the help of a doctor if he does not fully correspond to the medical ideal, but at the same time is able to help. It is the same in spiritual life: if a priest does not fully comply ideal, but we are able to help, we go to him and ask him for help and advice, and we bow our head under his epitrachilos in order to receive the remission of sins by the power of Divine grace, "said Patriarch Kirill.


                        So, I advise you to take up self-education, for example, to begin to open the alphabet http://azbyka.ru/ , and then try to reason on topics that are still very far from you.
                      2. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 17 September 2013 17: 59 New
                        0
                        Quote: GreatRussia
                        God's Will and Acceptance
                        Come on - in this case we are not talking about the will of a hypothetical god, but about the free will of man declared by the church, the action of which explains all the negative and the fall of the "first" people - you perfectly understood this.
                        And it was precisely with this will that big problems existed and exist, since its and the right to choose from it are broken even in childhood, destroying the child’s ability to think critically regarding the dogmas that parents hold.
                        And earlier it was even more fun - the person who changed the worldview was threatened with criminal prosecution - here you have the free will declared by the church.

                        what bullying and killing
                        The testimonies of which you have omitted.

                        You, by virtue of the aforementioned illiteracy, do not know this.
                        This is not an answer.

                        Undoubtedly.
                        So in your attitude the statement about a log and a bitch in an eye will be true:
                        The first item is universal - it corresponds to a closed and constantly moving group of apostles and the communities of the first Christians.
                        2nd corresponds - Yeshua opened a new look.
                        3rd corresponds - Yeshua very clearly explained on the example of analogies (parables)
                        4th corresponds - you just need to believe.
                        The 5th corresponds - in this case, this is not a guru, but an embodied god.
                        6th corresponds - the teaching of Christ is declared the truth in which you just need to believe.
                        7th corresponds - mark 6:11
                        8th corresponds - apocalypse and all that
                        Etc. Early Christianity corresponds to each item on this table.
                      3. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 17 September 2013 18: 13 New
                        -1
                        Modern Christianity also corresponds to all the points in the table, but to a lesser extent - less totalitarianism.

                        Quote: GreatRussia
                        And what? Pseudoscience also has the overwhelming majority of signs of a scientific approach and methods, however, some signs distinguish it from real science
                        And that one. Criticism regarding science (both pseudo and not pseudo) is the norm - it is the basis of knowledge. With the improvement of the tools of knowledge, the husk of false hypotheses is eliminated and the facts remain.
                        Religion does not tolerate criticism - it requires faith, even if the postulates of religion are contrary to common sense - for example, John 14:12 or Matthew 17:20.

                        So, I advise you to take up self-education
                        Et i regularly hi
                      4. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 18: 59 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        And that one. Criticism regarding science (both pseudo and not pseudo) is the norm - it is the basis of knowledge. With the improvement of the tools of knowledge, the husk of false hypotheses is eliminated and the facts remain.

                        As well as criticality regarding Christianity. Not everything that is declared by Christianity as such is, if you can distinguish grains from chaff.

                        Moreover, religion does not set itself the task of replacing scientific knowledge, at least traditional Orthodoxy, but only considers scientific data from the standpoint of theism, for example, creation, in fact as well as atheism from the standpoint of materialistic conception.
                        So, do not intentionally confuse and engage in the substitution of concepts. It's not gonna go.



                        Religion does not tolerate criticism - it requires faith, even if the postulates of religion are contrary to common sense - for example, John 14:12 or Matthew 17:20.

                        Religion does not tolerate criticism and an attempt to adjust its worldview, posing as this common sense, which you are trying to do.

                        e.g. John 14:12 or Matthew 17:20

                        He-he-he. And what did you find here that is contrary to what you mean by your "common sense"?

                        Verily, verily, I say unto you, He who believes in Me, the works that I do, and he will do, and more will do these, because I go to My Father.


                        Jesus said unto them, By your unbelief; for verily I say unto you, if you have faith with a mustard seed and say to this grief: "go from here to there," and it will pass; and nothing will be impossible for you;
                      5. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 19: 01 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        Et i regularly hi

                        I doubt it. How did you determine there the other day? I am critical of such statements.
                    2. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 17 September 2013 18: 37 New
                      0
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Come on - in this case we are not talking about the will of a hypothetical god, but about the free will of man declared by the church, the action of which explains all the negative and the fall of the "first" people - you perfectly understood this.

                      Oh how! Well, and from whom does it all depend on that? Really not from the person, and? laughing
                      Is it not passion that drives to bad?


                      And it was precisely with this will that big problems existed and exist, since its and the right to choose from it are broken even in childhood, destroying the child’s ability to think critically regarding the dogmas that parents hold.

                      Let us not attribute your problems, imposing your worldview on others.
                      Just the same, there is a right of choice for those who have an idea of ​​sin, in contrast to those who perceive sin as the norm. As an example of sodomy or so on. adultery, which is not limited to the dogmas of passions and sin among those who perceive these dogmas as mythology. yes



                      And earlier it was even more fun - the person who changed the worldview was threatened with criminal prosecution - here you have the free will declared by the church.

                      Oh really? And where are the examples of this? Can you see specific cases?



                      The testimonies of which you have omitted.

                      And where did you bring testimonies there, huh? laughing



                      This is not an answer.

                      But what is the question, huh?

                      There is no greater love than laying down a soul for one another
                    3. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 17 September 2013 18: 53 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      So in your attitude the statement about a log and a bitch in an eye will be true:
                      The first item is universal - it corresponds to a closed and constantly moving group of apostles and the communities of the first Christians.
                      2nd corresponds - Yeshua opened a new look.
                      3rd corresponds - Yeshua very clearly explained on the example of analogies (parables)
                      4th corresponds - you just need to believe.
                      The 5th corresponds - in this case, this is not a guru, but an embodied god.
                      6th corresponds - the teaching of Christ is declared the truth in which you just need to believe.
                      7th corresponds - mark 6:11
                      8th corresponds - apocalypse and all that
                      Etc. Early Christianity corresponds to each item on this table.

                      Where did you see the log?
                      1. It’s just not a closed, but an open group of apostles.
                      3. Hehe. Clearly does not mean simply.
                      Oh, it's not easy. For new philosophical truths were perceived with hostility. Moreover:
                      "The Jews are tempted, the Hellenes are madness"
                      5. And what, the difference between the guru and God is not sensations at all, sir?
                      It's funny. But what about "Don't make yourself an idol"?
                      But the Guru in the totalitarian sects is just the very embodiment of God on earth.

                      Etc. Early Christianity corresponds to each item on this table.

                      Have you completely stopped distinguishing realities? When was this your "so on", for example, written in paragraph 13 about the selection of partners by the leadership of the group or group sex, was present in Orthodox dogmas?
                      Sorry, but you have already crossed the line of your own delirium.
                      P. 14 is generally complete crap in your statement of conformity to Orthodoxy.
                    4. Yarosvet
                      Yarosvet 18 September 2013 00: 50 New
                      -2
                      Quote: GreatRussia
                      Not all that is claimed by Christianity as such is
                      That is, the canon is already sideways?
                      religion does not set itself the task of replacing scientific knowledge
                      These are forced changes that occurred in the 19-20 centuries - an attempt to adjust. Prior to this, religion replaced science and did it in very violent ways.
                      Religion cannot stand criticism
                      Alas, it is healthy criticism - if the Bible says the truth, and you are a believer, try moving the mountain.
                      Is it not passion that drives to bad?
                      Basically, but it was about obstructing the church’s declared human will by the church.
                      Just the same, those who have the idea of ​​sin have the right to choose
                      Amazing logic - following it you come to the conclusion that Adam and Eve, contrary to statements to the contrary, had no right to choose or free will until they tasted the forbidden fruit.
                      The example of sodomy is also interesting: according to the letter to the Romans, it is the result of idolatry and as a result, its conviction, instead of conviction of the sin that gave birth to it, is stupid (something I remembered Archbishop Zhuravlev).
                      And the most curious - regardless of the time, country, type and spread of religion, the percentage of deviations remains virtually unchanged - so the strong position of religion in the fight against sin does not seem to play a role.
                      And where are the examples of this?
                      Look at the punishment code.
                      And where did you bring testimonies there, huh?
                      That is, the testimonies of chroniclers or the records of a member of the main administration of Siberia are not reliable evidence for you (in contrast to the testimonies of ancient Jews)?
                      But what is the question, huh?
                      They answer not only questions, but also the specific part of the commentary - it was about double standards, about trusting in God for ordinary believers and protection for the ranks of the Russian Orthodox Church (as an example).
                    5. Yarosvet
                      Yarosvet 18 September 2013 01: 22 New
                      -1
                      1. Just not a closed, but an open group of apostles
                      To whom were they open if they did not contact outsiders in the absence of their comrades and were focused exclusively on the leader? With the same success, Belovodye or Vissarion can be called an open group.
                      3. Clearly does not mean simply
                      Since the teaching was successful, if people carried money, then the explanation was simple and understandable.
                      Oh, it's not easy. For new philosophical truths were perceived with hostility
                      It is not easy only with those who have critical thinking, or are adherents of existing dogmas - so any priest will perceive Vissarion.
                      5. And what, the difference between the guru and God is not sensations at all, sir?
                      Is there really a difference between calling himself a guru and calling himself a god?
                      As for the idol, the charismatic leader (often having mental deviations and sometimes believing in his own legend) creates an idol not for himself, but for the followers.
                      When was this your "so on", for example, written in paragraph 13 about the selection of partners by the leadership of the group or group sex, was there in the Orthodox dogmas?
                      Christianity has always regulated sexual relations - poses, methods, etc.
                      Sorry, but you have already crossed the line of your own delirium.
                      P. 14 is generally complete crap in your statement of conformity to Orthodoxy.
                      Did the apostles and associates live in their families? Didn't you complete the tasks? Didn’t they constantly listen to the leader? As the context implies, it was not Yeshua who was busy and tied up with them all the time.
                    6. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 18 September 2013 08: 53 New
                      0
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      To whom were they open if they did not contact outsiders in the absence of their comrades and were focused exclusively on the leader? With the same success, Belovodye or Vissarion can be called an open group.

                      They were oriented towards the Lord God.
                      And your vissarions and so on. simple people.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Since the teaching was successful, if people carried money, then the explanation was simple and understandable.

                      Well, yes, Christians to lions and so on. persecution.
                      Clear, but not simple. Yes, Aleko is not simple.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      It is not easy only with those who have critical thinking, or are adherents of existing dogmas ...

                      Well, yes, after all, this very "critical thinking" turned out to be nothing. Just the same Christian philosophy turned out to be more acceptable even for them.
                    7. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 18 September 2013 08: 56 New
                      0
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Is there really a difference between calling himself a guru and calling himself a god?

                      For you? Of course not. For thinking people critically, no doubt. smile

                      Quote: Yarosvet

                      As for the idol, the charismatic leader (often having mental deviations and sometimes believing in his own legend) creates an idol not for himself, but for the followers.

                      Yeah, it’s true that leaders who didn’t create anything of the kind with Christian philosophy did not succeed. So, miserable parodies and copying.
                    8. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 18 September 2013 09: 01 New
                      0
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Christianity has always regulated sexual relations - poses, methods, etc.

                      What? What are these poses and ways?
                      What is the next nonsense? wassat
                      They began to invent on the go. Funny of course, but not interesting, by golly.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Did the apostles and associates live in their families? Didn't you complete the tasks? Didn’t they constantly listen to the leader? As the context implies, it was not Yeshua who was busy and tied up with them all the time.

                      Yeshua is the Lord God, not a parody of God, which all your modern gurus represent.

                      Mdya In general, sheer dull, not arguments, Mr. neopagan.
                    9. The comment was deleted.
                    10. Yarosvet
                      Yarosvet 19 September 2013 13: 02 New
                      -1
                      Quote: GreatRussia
                      They were oriented towards the Lord God
                      Patient level statement in a mental institution ...
                      Before making such statements, it is necessary to prove that Yeshua existed, that he was a god, and true, and not one of the many fakes of that time - did you do this?

                      Well, yes, Christians to lions and so on. persecution.
                      Clear, but not simple. Yes, Aleko is not simple.
                      Simple and unsafe are two different things. Why were they thrown to the lions by the way?

                      Well, yes, after all, this very "critical thinking" turned out to be nothing. Just the same Christian philosophy turned out to be more acceptable even for them.
                      It turned out to be acceptable for the illiterate masses and intensely created this mass - for example, in architecture, the achievements of antiquity could only be repeated after a millennium of Christianity's dominance.
                    11. Yarosvet
                      Yarosvet 19 September 2013 13: 11 New
                      -1
                      Quote: GreatRussia
                      For you? Of course not. For people who think critically, no doubt
                      Vissarion declared himself a god, Rudnev declared himself a great guru - is there a difference between them?

                      Yeah, it’s true that leaders who didn’t create anything of the kind with Christian philosophy did not succeed. So, miserable parodies and copying.
                      Any religion began with a sect - take an interest in the philosophy of Hinduism before talking about parodies.

                      Quote: GreatRussia
                      What are these poses and ways?
                      What is the next nonsense?
                      That is not regulated? And what's that:
                      http://boguslava.ru/viewtopic.php?id=32

                      Yeshua is the Lord God, not a parody of God
                      Prove it.

                      Mdya In general, sheer dull, not arguments, Mr. neopagan.
                      Do you want to see me a neopagan? So is hating easier? laughing
                2. GreatRussia
                  GreatRussia 18 September 2013 08: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  That is, the canon is already sideways?

                  To whom? Which one? What are you talking about?


                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  These are forced changes that occurred in the 19-20 centuries - an attempt to adjust.

                  What changes, the most literate? The basic postulates do not change, the concept of creation receives only confirmation with the help of scientific data.



                  Prior to this, religion replaced science and did it in very violent ways.

                  Uti-ways, your co-religionists have forcibly planted their concept in the last century, mixing it with the same scientific discoveries made just by believing scientists.
                3. GreatRussia
                  GreatRussia 18 September 2013 08: 14 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  Alas, it is healthy criticism - if the Bible says the truth, and you are a believer, try moving the mountain.

                  What you call healthy criticism in practice is a commonplace set of the most primitive anti-Christian slogans.
                  I do not observe either attempts to approach the issue from the point of view of philosophical and religious thought, or attempts to operate on the religious dogmas of the religion that you hate. There are attempts, as in the example of Assumption, to tear out one single, private one and try to wave it without considering the other concepts.

                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  Basically, but it was about obstructing the church’s declared human will by the church.

                  Again dancing with a tambourine in a circle.
                  What will literate?
                  To steal, kill, commit adultery, etc., contrasting himself with the body of Christ, according to its Head?

                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  Amazing logic - following it you come to the conclusion that Adam and Eve, contrary to statements to the contrary, had no right to choose or free will until they tasted the forbidden fruit.

                  With this "logic", you really go far.
                  What will be those who could not know about good and evil before the fall, eh?
                  Well, you should at least study the religion you hate before releasing bullshit over and over again.
                4. GreatRussia
                  GreatRussia 18 September 2013 08: 20 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  The example of sodomy is also interesting: according to the letter to the Romans, it is the result of idolatry and as a result, its conviction, instead of conviction of the sin that gave birth to it, is stupid (something I remembered Archbishop Zhuravlev).
                  And the most curious - regardless of the time, country, type and spread of religion, the percentage of deviations remains virtually unchanged - so the strong position of religion in the fight against sin does not seem to play a role.

                  In this case, they usually ask: "did he understand what he shot on the air?"
                  For you, sore and picking sores, exposing this ulcer to a healthy society as normal, instead of trying to treat one and the same thing?
                  Then really you can only sympathize.
                5. GreatRussia
                  GreatRussia 18 September 2013 08: 38 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  Look at the punishment code.

                  I even quoted points to you.
                  Well? Where is the concrete evidence?

                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  That is, the testimonies of chroniclers or the records of a member of the Siberian Main Directorate are not reliable evidence for you

                  Is it a demotivator based on the libel of the Khrushchev singer Grekulov? laughing
                  You yourself read it, no?
                  It was about punishment by secular authorities, investigation and sentencing secret office.

                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  it was about double standards, about trusting in God for ordinary believers and protection for the ranks of the Russian Orthodox Church (as an example).

                  I already answered you, and if I haven’t finished it, then I repeat that the murder of a high-ranking hierarch can lead to sad consequences for society.
                  Not for nothing that activists from the marshes climb with their shares in the Temples.
                6. Yarosvet
                  Yarosvet 18 September 2013 10: 21 New
                  -1
                  You know, I have a feeling that you have turned on the "network idiot" (there was a corresponding article on VO) and are trying to move out to the bazaar.
                  Your phrase "not everything that is declared by Christianity is such" - this is something: firstly, you have no evidence that Orthodox Christians are more than Pentecostals or Tolstoyans (there would be no variability of interpretation in the Bible and Christianity would be the same), secondly, we still speak mainly about Orthodoxy (hence my misunderstanding of your phrases and the question of canon)

                  The forced changes consist in the partial adoption of science, which was previously considered to be devilish (the burning of Bomelius, Erenstein, Artamon Matveev’s exile, the removal of the astronomical calendar in 1743, the burning of Anichkov’s book at the insistence of Metropolitan Ambrose, etc. - you know all this no worse than me, so that you should not play with words).
                  As for the confirmation of the concept of creation, even if it is confirmed, it will be more a confirmation of the creation of man by neighbors in space than by God in the understanding of the Christian.

                  I call healthy criticism healthy criticism — it is not my fault that you are not able to refute it at the level of logic.
                  I see no reason to approach the issue from the point of view of philosophical and religious thought and begin to operate on religious dogmas, since neither one nor the other has no relation to objectivity. I give the most obvious example, which does not require any additional concepts, from which 3 options follow: either you as a believer are able to move the mountain (and then I'm wrong), or you lie about your faith (and therefore there is nothing to talk about with you ), or the dogma of the truth of every word in the Bible is a lie (and therefore there is no reason to believe the Orthodox dogma is true).
                  Are you able to move the mountain?

                  You understood everything about the will.

                  What will be those who could not know about good and evil before the fall, eh? - So their guilt does not exist and there was no fall.

                  No need for sores - in the letter to the Romans everything is written unambiguously, and the increase in crimes coinciding with the increase in the number of churches and religious people over the past 20 years directly says that there is no connection between religion and morality.

                  Where is the concrete evidence? - Vladimir Bantysh-Kamensky, Semyon Shubin, Anton Dmitriev, Fedor Podshivalov, Ivan Yakhontov ...

                  It was about punishment by secular authorities, investigation and sentence by the secret chancellery - A very convenient version, but here's a problem: these are accusations of intercourse with evil spirits, that is, not state crimes.

                  killing a senior hierarch can lead to sad consequences for society - And it may not lead, and in accordance with the Christian worldview it will not, if God does not wish it.

                  Will you move the mountain?
  • Uncle
    Uncle 16 September 2013 18: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: vladsolo56
    To claim that only the church will save Russia.

    It has always been so, for Faith, the Tsar and the Fatherland, entrusted to him.
    Quote: vladsolo56
    What are they trying to bring us under the new Orthodox Inquisition?

    And what was that already?
    1. S_mirnov
      S_mirnov 16 September 2013 19: 14 New
      0
      Quote: Uncle
      And what was that already?

      But did the Christians in Russia not touch the Old Believers and fire worshipers? And where did the idols and pre-Christian temples go?
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 03: 45 New
        0
        Quote: S_mirnov
        But did the Christians in Russia not touch the Old Believers and fire worshipers?

        No, they didn’t touch.
        We touched the top, which:
        In the past, in April 193, on the 7th day, the Great Sovereign Tsars and Grand Dukes John Alekseevich, Peter Alekseevich all [S. 419] The Great and Malyia and Belyaya Russia, the autocrats, and their sister, the Great Sovereign, noble Tsarevna Sofia Alekseevna, listening to these articles, pointed out and sentenced the boyar: henceforth, the splitters will continue to repair their great sovereigns with the decree of the father of their great sovereigns, Grand Duke Alexei Mikhailovich, all Great and Malyi and Belyi of Russia, autocrat, and according to his great sovereigns by decree and by articles, which are written below:

        1. Which schismatics of the holy church oppose and blame, and do not go to church and church singing and spiritual fathers for confession, and do not receive holy mysteries, and do not allow priests in their homes and shrines, and between Christians obscene in their own words mend temptation and rebellion, and they stand stubbornly in that theft: to torture those thieves, from whom they have been taught this, and for how long, and who they will talk to and talk about those slanderous people and give them confrontations among themselves, and torture them from confrontations; and who learn from torture to stand stubbornly, but won’t bring the conquests of the holy church, and if you don’t submit to such a heresy, by interrogation three times by execution, they will burn them down in a log house and scatter ashes.



        3. Which by its charm commoners and their wives and children led them to burn themselves: and such thieves, wanted, for their theft, because of their charms people were burned, burn themselves.

        4. People who walked through villages and people who, in perfect years, as well as their children, who, in perfect and young years, crossed and used to denounce the former holy baptism as wrong, but re- [S. 420] they imputed baptism to the truth: those thieves who baptized, although they bring the churches of God and obedience bring the spiritual father and receive holy mysteries, they will truly desire communion, and, confessing and participating, they will be executed by death without mercy.



        Quote: S_mirnov
        And where did the idols and pre-Christian temples go?
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 17 September 2013 04: 05 New
          0
          Quote: S_mirnov
          And where did the idols and pre-Christian temples go?

          What are pagan temples? What are you talking about?
          About it?
          So, they quietly quietly rot in a place with human sacrifices:

          The scheme of the excavated pedestal for the Zbruch idol:



          In extinctions 4 and 6 are human remains. Their location is clearly of some kind of magical character and this is clearly not an ordinary pagan cemetery.
          http://www.russiancity.ru/hbooks/h036.htm


          Including children:







          http://www.dshinin.ru/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=21
          00011626
    2. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 16 September 2013 20: 57 New
      -1
      Quote: Uncle
      And what was that already?
  • Grishka100watt
    Grishka100watt 16 September 2013 12: 47 New
    0
    Roman, thank you for the article, everything was set out correctly. All right.
    1. Grishka100watt
      Grishka100watt 16 September 2013 13: 49 New
      0
      Although, on this site, an article in the spirit of "How the ROC wants to destroy Russia" would be more popular.
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 September 2013 15: 15 New
        +1
        Quote: Grishka100watt
        Although, on this site, an article in the spirit of "How the ROC wants to destroy Russia" would be more popular.

        Atheist, communist, Nobel laureate J. Alferov is unlikely to agree with this:

        1. Grishka100watt
          Grishka100watt 16 September 2013 15: 48 New
          +1
          Looked. From and to. Zhores Ivanovich is a true citizen and patriot. But it does not relate to topics popular on topvar)
  • erased
    erased 16 September 2013 12: 48 New
    +4
    The historical excursion to the author failed. He is clearly not aware that we did not have any Mongols. And there were enough Christians in the order (Horde) army.
    The war broke out showed the weakness of the red-headed leadership of the Red Army ...

    If the Red Army was so weak, the author would not write this article now.
    True, the church called on believing Christians to defend their homeland. And what was she supposed to urge to fight on the side of the Nazis? The merits of the church during the war are foolish to deny - the collected values ​​and the tanks, planes and self-propelled guns built on them certainly helped.
    Regarding the army and religion - even in the 19th century, Muslims had their own mullahs and did not demand a change of faith. Even the rewards were separate for them.
    By modernity - what does the author offer? Remove from the country and from the army of atheists? Or urgently convert everyone to the Christian faith? Or do bad warriors leave atheists? The Great Patriotic War showed the opposite.
    And the fact that potitiko-moral preparation is now at zero is already known. In a word, besides stating the facts (some are clearly erroneous) and slurred slogans, the author said nothing.
  • Natalia
    Natalia 16 September 2013 12: 49 New
    +3
    Obviously, in order to solve this important problem, it is necessary, first of all, at the official level, to recognize what is an indisputable but forgotten fact: historically, Russia exists based on two pillars: Army and Church.

    Russia and its history are generally very multifaceted, it is a whole kaleidoscope of events and transformations ...
    But certainly, at some times, the people relied on the Army and the Church, at some times on the Army and the Party. In our country, in modern conditions, the issue of religion is a very sensitive issue, since in Russia today there are a large number of people professing different religions. Those Muslims are very proud that they are Muslims, it inspires them and inspires them in life. In Russia, the overwhelming majority of the population (about 80%) is Russian, the historical culture of the Russian people evolved differently, but most of its existence was precisely Orthodoxy, and this means first of all that we should not be shy about our Orthodox cultural traditions and should from time to time time to publicly give this reminder, however, caution should be exercised in these matters and not excessive and unnecessary fanaticism ... tolerance should be shown to other peoples and faiths.
    In addition, there is also a significant part of the population that is devoted to the ideals of the glorious times of the Soviet past, who are accustomed to believing in the party - therefore, this point of view should also be respected, because the Soviet past is a part of our history that should not be forgotten, it can be treated differently but it is part of our history, the Great History ...
    In general, for Russia, the main coefficient of stability is, of course, first of all, religious and racial tolerance ... however, at the same time, tolerance should not be sewn into silent patience for some provocative lawlessness and should be subjected to public reproach.
    1. Uncle
      Uncle 16 September 2013 18: 53 New
      -1
      Quote: Natalia
      tolerance should be shown to other peoples and faiths.

      Why are you all about tolerance for them, let them put up with us. We treat everyone with understanding. Believe me, I know who Muslims or Jews worship. Here you, dear, do not know. No offense will be said, and so many will judge things that they don’t understand.
      Quote: Natalia
      for the Soviet past is part of our history that should not be forgotten,

      Of course, do not forget the crimes of the Communists, so as not to repeat them. And a lot has been done good, I do not argue, but you should not forget the river of folk blood.
      1. Natalia
        Natalia 16 September 2013 19: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: Uncle
        Here you, dear, do not know.

        Quote: Uncle
        Of course, do not forget the crimes of the Communists, so as not to repeat them.

        brrrr .... solid negative No.
      2. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 16 September 2013 21: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: Uncle
        Believe me, I know who Muslims or Jews worship.

        Muslims trace their mythological lineage from Ismail, the son of Abraham, who worshiped (He is Sabaoth Yahweh)

        The Jews worship Yahweh (aka Sabaoth) and consider their ancestors Adam, Abraham, Israel (Jacob), etc.

        Christians worship Yeshua, who in the understanding of Christians is one of the hypostases of the host of hosts (aka Yahweh)

        Everyday service in the Orthodox Church consists of 85% of the texts of the Old Testament, and the text of the Old Testament occupies 75% of the entire Bible and 80% coincides with the Tanakh.

        So who do Muslims and Jews worship?
  • S_mirnov
    S_mirnov 16 September 2013 12: 52 New
    +5
    "Obviously, in order to solve this important problem, it is necessary, first of all, at the official level, to recognize what is an immutable but forgotten fact: historically Russia exists relying on two pillars: the Army and the Church."

    Healthy again! Maybe we’ll put the king on his neck? Mikhalkov would not mind!
    The trouble is different! The modern oligarchic elite who came to power in the Russian Federation - can not physically offer citizens an acceptable value system !!! The Soviet system does not suit them (according to it they are obtained by the exploiters and bloodsuckers), therefore they destroy it. They cannot create their own trading system, much less bring it in to former Soviet citizens (Soviet education is power). So they sculpt from what happened, but priests, mullahs and rabbis - right there! Only now it pulls inter-religious discord in the troops.
    Here is a spit in the Soviet system of values, from the author:
    "And the conclusion naturally suggests itself: in Russia there is no ideal, a standard of a national hero, a symbol of Russian national pride, capable of uniting the people, giving them an example of victory!"
    He calls the Soviet citizens, who rolled the fascist reptile into a pancake, "victims of the agitprom"! Your grandfathers and grandmothers, who defeated Germany and practically all of Europe in one rush and raised the state after the war! They did not have a "national hero" and they could not take an "example of victory." fool
    Well, what can I say, probably this is some kind of inexplicable phenomenon of the USSR, defeating fascism, without priests in the army and effective owners in the economy! Incomprehensible to modern science, an artifact of legendary ancestors!
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 16 September 2013 15: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: S_mirnov
      Healthy again! Maybe we’ll put the king on his neck? Mikhalkov would not mind!

      Have a nice one you too. And with what fright did you attribute the king here?
      1. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 16 September 2013 15: 45 New
        0
        Quote: GreatRussia
        And with what fright did you attribute the king here?

        well, we’ll return the priests, God's word in kindergartens and schools (what’s it, in institutes and in the army!) So the next step could well be Tsar the priest of all Russia. The royal flag has already been returned, the two-headed eagle too. Land was taken from the peasants, factories were taken from the workers. We are degrading in general. Again, the king of the past (this is what the people brought to the revolution) - they declared saints!
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 16 September 2013 15: 49 New
          0
          Quote: S_mirnov
          well, we’ll return the priests, God's word in kindergartens and schools (but what’s there, in institutes and in the army!)

          Well, so what does the king have to do with it?
          And we do not return priests, but justice. Why am I at my expense imposing an atheistic worldview in schools?
          And do not try to lie, there is no defense industry complex in kindergartens, and in schools for your children you can choose between Secular Ethics and the Fundamentals of the Orthodox culturetaught Secular teachers.


          Quote: S_mirnov
          So the next step could well be Tsar the father of all Russia.

          What does this mean?
          You, dear, carry near-religious nonsense, cliches imposed by the atheists, activists of the Russophobic liberal orientation, who filled the Internet space.
          1. S_mirnov
            S_mirnov 16 September 2013 18: 31 New
            +2
            Quote: GreatRussia
            And we do not return priests, but justice.

            You will not believe, everything is for justice here! wink I have not seen anyone who would say. I am against justice! smile
            Quote: GreatRussia
            Why am I at my expense imposing an atheistic worldview in schools?

            No one is imposing it on you; there is no atheism lesson in schools. Schools teach knowledge and a scientific approach. Science does without God! Scientists know, religious people believe. Different concepts, understand what
            If you want to know more about God - go to church, synagogue, mosque. If you want to know the world - go to the research institute (this of course was earlier, now I don't even know where). If you want to professionally defend your homeland, join the army. as the "guarantor" says - "Cutlets separately, flies separately!" smile
            1. GreatRussia
              GreatRussia 17 September 2013 04: 10 New
              -2
              Quote: S_mirnov
              No one is imposing it on you; there is no atheism lesson in schools. Schools teach knowledge and a scientific approach.

              This is why the atheistic materialistic concept of Darwinism, mixed with the sciences of biology, archeology, etc., is so frightened. under the same name STE has suddenly become a scientific approach?


              Science does without God! Scientists know, religious people believe. Different concepts, understand what

              Who doesn’t let you believe in your monkey ancestors and the self-emergence of DNA or the universe?


              If you want to know more about God - go to church, synagogue, mosque. If you want to know the world - go to the research institute (this of course was earlier, now I don't even know where). If you want to professionally defend your homeland, join the army. as the "guarantor" says - "Cutlets separately, flies separately!" smile

              Well, go to militant atheist circles, study about your monkey ancestors and the spontaneous generation of life and the universe, why are you imposing one single concept in SECULAR states. institutions?
          2. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 16 September 2013 21: 45 New
            -1
            Quote: GreatRussia
            in schools for your children, you can choose between Secular Ethics and the Fundamentals of the Orthodox culture

            Now we can, but initially the Russian Orthodox Church tried to introduce compulsory catechism studies in all schools of the country, including traditionally Islamic regions.
            1. GreatRussia
              GreatRussia 17 September 2013 04: 11 New
              0
              Quote: Yarosvet

              Now we can, but initially the Russian Orthodox Church tried to introduce compulsory catechism studies in all schools of the country, including traditionally Islamic regions.

              Since when has ECHO MATSA on a patriotic site become a source of reliable information? wassat
              1. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 17 September 2013 10: 57 New
                +1
                Quote: GreatRussia
                Since when has ECHO MATSA on a patriotic site become a source of reliable information?
                2000 years after the Jewish myths began to pass off as the ultimate truth. yes
                1. GreatRussia
                  GreatRussia 17 September 2013 12: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  2000 years after Jewish myths began to pass off as the ultimate truth. yes

                  Those. Do you deny ancient myths as a source of information and refer to false Russophobian sources a la ECHO MATSA?
                  I have no more questions for you.
                  The idea of ​​you is fully compiled.
                  But Schliemann and his followers were not denied as a retelling by the ancients of the events that took place, respectively, with the help of their ideas about the world, and he found Troy. yes
                  1. Yarosvet
                    Yarosvet 17 September 2013 13: 57 New
                    0
                    Quote: GreatRussia
                    Those. you deny ancient myths as a source of information
                    I deny their religious interpretation.

                    As for the false sources, for the time being I did not see a refutation from the Russian Orthodox Church.
                    1. GreatRussia
                      GreatRussia 17 September 2013 14: 20 New
                      0
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      I deny their religious interpretation.

                      And I deny the interpretation of scientific data by a Darwinian concept and mixing them into a pseudoscience called STE, respectively, an uncontested planting in secular institutions at the expense of all, without exception, taxpayer citizens.
                      bully

                      Quote: Yarosvet

                      As for the false sources, for the time being I did not see a refutation from the Russian Orthodox Church.

                      The rebuttal of what? What do you propose to refute? Your interpretations laughing
                      1. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 17 September 2013 15: 00 New
                        0
                        Quote: GreatRussia
                        And I deny the interpretation of scientific data by a Darwinian concept and mixing them into a pseudoscience called STE
                        I hope on the basis of a number of inconsistencies, and not on the basis of its contradiction to the religious worldview?

                        accordingly, non-alternative planting in secular institutions at the expense of all, without exception, taxpayer citizens
                        Nothing that in religious institutions there is a non-alternative planting of a different kind?

                        What do you propose to refute?
                        It is quite obvious that I propose to refute the distortion of Cyril’s words about the desire of the Russian Orthodox Church to introduce compulsory catechism studies in schools (unless of course they were distorted or not uttered at all)
                      2. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 15: 21 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        I hope on the basis of a number of inconsistencies, and not on the basis of its contradiction to the religious worldview?

                        Undoubtedly.

                        Quote: Yarosvet

                        Nothing that in religious institutions there is a non-alternative planting of a different kind?

                        I'm sorry, what? It is in what secular educational institutions that theistic conception is imposed without alternative?
                        You haven’t messed up anything? No?


                        Quote: Yarosvet

                        It is quite obvious that I propose to refute the distortion of Cyril’s words about the desire of the Russian Orthodox Church to introduce compulsory catechism studies in schools (unless of course they were distorted or not uttered at all)

                        But it’s obvious to me that you quoted a Russophobic-anticlerical source that interpreted, not quoted.
                        So, there is absolutely nothing to refute. For a dummy in the form of another stuffing.

                        Moreover, that:

                        Once again, Metropolitan Kirill explained: according to all international rules and Russian laws, Russia is obliged to provide the opportunity for religious education in a public school. Moreover, both components of this religious education, cultural and catechetical, have full right to exist. The fact that the Church did not insist on the inclusion in the mandatory program of the second, doctrine, element - a consequence of her “flexible, realistic and self-derogatory position," said the head of the DECR.

                        This is just the “minimum minimorum” that the Church defended, but even here she did not stop on the path of “condescension to historical weakness” of the people and “voluntary self-abasement”, agreeing to variability within the framework of the DNA course. Metropolitan Kirill explained that for those “strange” and rare children who would never want to know “what is the Assumption Cathedral in the Kremlin”, variability involves visiting cultural classes of other traditional religions or “another ethically colored course.” The catechetical component of religious education in a public school may also be present, but so far on an optional basis, as “No one forbade him,” concluded the hierarch.

                        http://www.blagovest-info.ru/index.php?ss=2&s=3&id=18895

                        So, I strongly advise you to stop breeding anti-Orthodox and anti-religious agitation and stuffing, with which you clogged up all topics related to Orthodoxy. Even if it is unbearably itchy and itchy.
                      3. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 17 September 2013 17: 05 New
                        0
                        Quote: GreatRussia
                        You haven’t messed up anything? No?
                        No - you stress that the non-alternative planting of STE occurs (occurred) specifically in secular institutions. In religious institutions, meanwhile, a non-alternative planting of a religious worldview has been and is going on.

                        So that there is absolutely nothing to refute
                        How is it nothing? If they incorrectly quoted or interpreted, then they distorted the facts - this also requires a refutation.

                        From the 31st minute

                        in accordance with all international rules and Russian laws, Russia is obligated ...
                        There are no such rules and laws.

                        So, I highly recommend
                        No comments laughing
                      4. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 17: 13 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        No - you stress that the non-alternative planting of STE occurs (occurred) specifically in secular institutions. In religious institutions, meanwhile, a non-alternative planting of a religious worldview has been and is going on.

                        So who makes you attend religious institutions? We are talking about secular, in which just at the expense of ALL CITIZENS, TAXPAYERS, one single non-alternative atheistic conception about the origin of man, life, and so on.

                        Quote: Yarosvet

                        How is it nothing? If they incorrectly quoted or interpreted, it means that they distorted the facts - this also requires a refutation, especially since the link you presented is also just an interpretation.

                        Interpretation of what? This is exactly the source of the Russian Orthodox Church, and not an outside organization.

                        Quote: Yarosvet

                        From the 31st minute

                        Well? Where in the interview it is said that the Russian Orthodox Church insisted on religious education, what is stated in your Russophobic film certificate of ECHO MATSA? Do you even think that you are laying out? No?


                        Quote: Yarosvet

                        There are no such rules and laws.

                        You then open the tips, before you drive yourself into the paint again.

                        Religious education in a public school is allowed only in the following forms:

                        a) teaching religious studies, religious philosophical and religious disciplines as part of an additional educational program (Letter of the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation "On the secular nature of education in state educational institutions of the Russian Federation" No. 47 / 20-11p of 19.03.93/XNUMX/XNUMX);

                        b) teaching ethno-confessional courses in public schools with an ethnocultural (national) component of education in Moscow (Regulation on an educational school with an ethnocultural (national) component of education in Moscow dated November 19.11.97, 65 No. XNUMX);

                        c) teaching religion outside the classroom as part of the elective (clause 4 of article 5 of the Law on Freedom of Conscience).

                        http://stolica.narod.ru/obraz/pk/009.htm

                        Federal Law of September 26, 1997 N 125-ФЗ
                        "On freedom of conscience and on religious associations"
                        Adopted by the State Duma on September 19, 1997
                        Approved by the Federation Council on September 24, 1997

                        Article 5. Religious education

                        4. At the request of parents or persons replacing them, with the consent of the children, students in state and municipal educational institutions, the administration of these institutions, in agreement with the relevant local government, provides a religious organization with the opportunity to educate children about religion outside the scope of the educational program.



                        Quote: Yarosvet

                        No comments

                        Correctly. Sometimes it’s better to keep silent, especially in your case. yes
                      5. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 17: 37 New
                        0
                        3.2. Ethnic and religious educational subjects on the study of religions recognized as culture-forming in the respective national communities and shaping the lifestyle of the family, people, state, are studied in the volume determined by the school’s highest self-government.
                        http://docs.cntd.ru/document/3612612


                        2. “The teaching of religious, educational, religious and religious and philosophical disciplines, which is not accompanied by religious ceremonies and has an informative character, may be included in the curriculum of state educational institutions "(Article 9 of the RSFSR Law" On Religious Freedom "* -" Bulletin of the Congress of People's Deputies of the RSFSR and the Supreme Council of the RSFSR ", 1990, No. 21, v. 240, p. 286).
                        http://www.patriarchia.ru/db/text/162265.html
                      6. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 17 September 2013 19: 13 New
                        0
                        Quote: GreatRussia
                        So who makes you attend religious institutions?
                        No one is for me, but religion is trying to get into schools - that's the problem.

                        We are talking about secular, in which just at the expense of ALL CITIZENS-TAXPAYERS, one single non-alternative atheistic conception about the origin of man, life, etc.
                        Religion in the Russian Federation is sponsored by the state and now, unlike the atheistic concept, it is present both in religious institutions and in secular ones.
                        The atheistic concept is justified, trying to prove its justice - the religious concept requires taking oneself on faith without any justification.

                        Where in the interview it is said that the Russian Orthodox Church insisted on religious education
                        "Catechesis in schools is an issue that we could not solve" - that is, they tried to solve it - they tried to introduce the compulsory study of the catechism.
                        "We offered a compromise option ... why it was done: the main opponents of teaching catechism in school ... said that in a multi-religious and multinational society, this would lead to conflicts." - this could lead to conflicts only if the study of the catechism or the foundations of the Orthodox culture would be mandatory for EVERYONE, regardless of region, religion, etc.

                        What has the ear lied to?

                        “On the secular nature of education in state educational institutions of the Russian Federation”
                        That is, teaching can be carried out as part of a course of cultural studies, rather than religious disciplines.
                        Religious education in schools, despite the attempts of the ROC to change the current state of affairs, is prohibited.

                        Religious education in schools is only possible:
                        At the request of parents or their substitutes, with the consent of the children ...
                        ... outside the scope of the educational program.
                      7. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 19: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        Not me. Religion has come to schools, not yet in full.

                        There is no religion at school. You are raving.


                        Religion in the Russian Federation is sponsored by the state and now, unlike the atheistic concept, it is present both in religious institutions and in secular ones.

                        Religion is not present in secular educational institutions, and it has no alternative, as the concept of spontaneous generation of a person’s life or origin. You rave again.


                        The atheistic concept is justified, trying to prove its justice - the religious concept requires taking oneself on faith without any justification.

                        Not a damn thing like that. The atheistic concept of the origin of man is UNDEFINED.
                        One single theory of Darwinism is being imposed, despite the existence of a scientific, alternative theory of Darwinism, for example, the Berg theory called NOMOGENESIS, which corresponds to the concept of human creation, including directed evolution, which is adhered to in the Russian Orthodox Church.
                      8. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 19: 22 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        “Catechism in schools is a question that we have not been able to solve” - that is, they tried to solve it - they tried to introduce compulsory study of the catechism.
                        "We offered a compromise option ... why it was done: the main opponents of teaching catechism at school ... said that in a multi-religious and multinational society, this would lead to conflicts" - this could lead to conflicts only if, if the study of the catechism or the foundations of Orthodox culture would become obligatory FOR ALL, regardless of the region, religion, etc.


                        Tried to solve does not mean insisted.
                        You rave again, and already frankly.



                        What has the ear lied to?

                        Go to the mirror and take an interest. This is not interesting to me.
                      9. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 19: 25 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        That is, teaching can be carried out as part of a course of cultural studies, rather than religious disciplines.
                        Religious education in schools, despite the attempts of the ROC to change the current state of affairs, is prohibited.

                        Are you familiar with the term catechization? No?

                        Studying the foundations of the Christian faith and the dogma of the church (catechism) can be carried out within the framework of the Foundations of Orthodox Culture.
                      10. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 17 September 2013 22: 40 New
                        -1
                        There is no religion at school - I’m not raving, but you are replacing concepts: I argued that religion goes to schools, as evidenced by the story of school No. 15 Miass, the story of the Saharej camp and Cyril’s open statement that the Russian Orthodox Church tried to introduce compulsory catechism studies in schools , which is a purely religious discipline.

                        Religion is not present in secular educational institutions, and it has no alternative, as the concept of spontaneous generation of a person’s life or origin - Religion has no alternative in religious institutions, it does not consist only in the concept of creating life, and crawls into schools, institutes, nuclear plants, water utilities, cosmodromes, the army, etc.

                        Atheistic concept about the origin of man is unsubstantiated - It is fully unproven - the concept of divine creation is absolutely unproven and refuted from the point of view of logic.

                        One single theory of Darwinism is being imposed, in spite of the existence of a scientific theory, alternative to Darwinism - Here I can not disagree, but claims in this case should be presented by mines. education, not theory.

                        NOMOGENESIS, which corresponds to the concept of the creation of man, including directed evolution, which is adhered to in the Russian Orthodox Church - Only outwardly.

                        Tried to solve does not mean insisted “You are raving - how could they insist where I write this?”
                        However, the very fact of an attempt, using an administrative resource, to get into not only a school, but also into the territory of other faiths, says a lot - in particular, about the moral condition of the Russian Orthodox Church.

                        Go to the mirror and take an interest. This is not interesting to me “It must be assumed that in order to hear the echo of matzo you brought her to the temple, where the acoustics are good, and threw matzo on the floor, listening to the slaps.”

                        Learning the basics of the Christian faith and the dogma of the church (catechism) - The instruction of the beginners in the faith, teaching the truths of the faith and the rite of church life is, more simply, recruitment.
                      11. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 18 September 2013 07: 20 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        There is no religion at school - I’m not raving, but you are replacing concepts: I argued that religion creeps into schools,

                        It is you who are raving.
                        You argued that religion creeps into schools, as a confirmation of which they brought lies from a Russophobic source, which was further confirmed.


                        Confirmation of this is the story of the school N 15 g Miass, the story of the Saharej camp

                        Uh no, don't do juggling. These are individual cases, individual activists, and not the position of the Church.
                        Otherwise, I can give similar examples of how atheistic ideology is propagated in secular educational institutions, referring to a criminal case against an atheist teacher at the Far Eastern State Industrial and Economic College.
                        So that all of your smart-ass jugglers don’t ride, the most competent.



                        and Cyril’s open statement that the Russian Orthodox Church tried to introduce compulsory study of catechism in schools, which is a purely religious discipline.

                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        Religion has no alternative in religious institutions, it is not only in the concept of creating life

                        Religious institutions are separated from the state, in contrast to secular schools, in which, at the expense of citizens of taxpayers, without exception, they instill one atheistic, materialistic concept.

                        Quote: Yarosvet

                        and creeps into schools, institutes, nuclear plants, water utilities, space centers, the army, etc.

                        Of course, I understand that itching and itching for you to again drive the believers of CITIZENS into a certain ghetto and plant your anti-religious ideology again, but here's the thing for you:

                        Article 28
                        Everyone is guaranteed freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, including the right to individually or jointly with others profess any religion or not to profess any, freely choose, have and disseminate religious and other beliefs and act in accordance with them.
                      12. GreatRussia
                        GreatRussia 18 September 2013 07: 32 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        Here I can not disagree, but claims in this case should be presented by mines. education, not theory.

                        And no one claims to the theory. Claims to impose a non-alternative atheistic concept in secular institutions.

                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        It is fully unproven -

                        Not that which has not been proven, but completely failed.

                        the concept of divine creation is absolutely unproven and refuted in terms of logic.

                        Oh really? By whom? And what?
                        Your anti-religious slogan? laughing

                        Quote: Yarosvet

                        Only outwardly.

                        What next nonsense?


                        You are raving - how could they insist where I write this?
                        However, the very fact of an attempt, using an administrative resource, to get into not only a school, but also into the territory of other faiths, says a lot - in particular, about the moral condition of the Russian Orthodox Church.

                        Oh how! Does memory fail? Well, it doesn’t matter. Open your kosher little source of Echo Matzi in your own higher message and read what you have highlighted.

                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        However, the very fact of an attempt to use administrative resources to penetrate not only the ROC school.

                        Uti-ways, what epithets trampled upon. Climb, etc. Remember, believers are citizens like you with their worldview, who, according to the Constitution, have the right to profess and disseminate.


                        , but also on the territory of other faiths says a lot - in particular about the moral state

                        Oops And who gets into the territory of your denomination? laughing
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        It must be assumed that in order to hear the echo of matzah you brought her to the temple, where the acoustics are good, and threw matzah to the floor, listening to the slaps.

                        No, you really haven’t really ... that’s not only with logic and knowledge in matters of faith that you hate, but also with memory. Have you forgotten that I explained to you that I’m not being churched?
                        Ah ah ah! Toda is a really bad thing.

                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        The instruction of the beginnings in the faith, the teaching of the truths of faith and the rite of church life is, more simply, recruitment.

                        Nobody suggested doing anything like this on the territory of secular educational institutions.
                        You have painful anticlerical fears motivated by your militant anti-Orthodox mentality.
          3. Gloomy
            Gloomy 17 September 2013 18: 51 New
            0
            Mr. fighter against godlessness, curious, what "itches and itches" in types like you, when they breed primitive obscurantist propaganda and stuffing, with which they foul all topics, both religious and secular?

            I understand that you and your kind are a kind of social minority, like LGBT people.
            This is your own business and right. The state treats you with squeamish pity, that’s even added to the Criminal Code.
            But you do not be impudent "God's servants", your idol does not encourage this. Or I'm wrong?
          4. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 17 September 2013 19: 29 New
            0
            Quote: Moody
            Mr. fighter against godlessness, curious, what "itches and itches" in types like you, when they breed primitive obscurantist propaganda and stuffing, with which they foul all topics, both religious and secular?

            Are you now who, huh?


            Quote: Moody
            I understand that you and your kind are a kind of social minority, like LGBT people.

            Really?
            laughing

            Moscow. 24 August. INTERFAX - In Russia, only 14% consider themselves to be unbelievers, while only 4% of them are convinced atheists, reports the All-Russian Center for the Study of Public Opinion (VTsIOM).
            Every fifth Russian considers himself a believer and strives to observe all the rituals prescribed by his religion. Another 42% consider themselves to be believers rather than non-believers, and 18% of those polled believe that there are higher powers in the world, "Rossiyskaya Gazeta" writes on Thursday.



            You crap one's pants with similar comparisons. It happens. Sorry. wassat
          5. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 17 September 2013 19: 30 New
            0
            Quote: Moody
            ... The state treats you with squeamish pity, and has even added the Criminal Code. But you do not be impudent "God's servants", your idol does not encourage this. Or I'm wrong?

            In my opinion, it refers to you as an endangered species. Otherwise, you still do not understand what all your Puxi-Pisi and Gelmans could lead to.
  • GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 16 September 2013 15: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: S_mirnov
    Land was taken from the peasants, factories were taken from the workers. We are degrading in general.

    She never belonged to them. Get involved.


    Again, the king of the past (this is what the people brought to the revolution) - they declared saints!

    Before the revolution, the people brought the same pack, a la bulk and Co.
    And read something about the religion you hate, about the concept of the PASSENGER, before broadcasting religious illiteracy.


    Passionate, the name of the Christian martyrs. In principle, this name can be applied to all martyrs who have suffered suffering (passion, gr. Πάθος, πάθημα, lat. Passio) in the name of Christ. Mostly, this name refers to those saints who did not accept martyrdom for faith, perhaps even from their co-religionists - because of their malice, deceit, conspiracy.

    1. S_mirnov
      S_mirnov 16 September 2013 18: 01 New
      0
      Quote: GreatRussia
      Quote: S_mirnov
      Land was taken from the peasants, factories were taken from the workers. We are degrading in general.

      She never belonged to them. Get involved.

      It now does not belong to them, but belongs to a specific uncle, the owner of the bank. The land used to be a Public Domain!

      Quote: GreatRussia
      Before the revolution, the people brought the same pack, a la bulk and Co.

      It is not necessary to consider our ancestors stupid, for such as the bulk of the people and now did not go and then would not go. And since the people began to hang bourgeois on poles, then they brought him to the extreme. And so the Russian people, in my opinion even too much patient!


      Quote: GreatRussia
      And read something about the religion you hate, about the concept of PASSENGER,

      Yes what for all these religious subtleties rested against me !? You are interested, you study. Willing to lose your time is up to you.
      And atheism has not been instilled in us for a long time, and if you look back, you will see what it led to ....
      1. Walking
        Walking 16 September 2013 18: 38 New
        -1
        When was this land a public property? Apparently you were very far from the people.
        1. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 16 September 2013 19: 12 New
          +1
          Quote: Hiking
          When was this land a public property?

          Then, when no one could sell and buy Russian land! The possibility of buying and selling land brings it from public use to private personal! Is this a discovery for you?
      2. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 04: 16 New
        -1
        Quote: S_mirnov
        It now does not belong to them, but belongs to a specific uncle, the owner of the bank. The land used to be a Public Domain!

        Do you understand the difference between a statement with a declaration and practice? laughing


        Quote: S_mirnov
        It is not necessary to consider our ancestors stupid, for such as the bulk of the people and now did not go and then would not go.

        So went after Yeltsin? I went. Tacitly accepted the coup of the same handful as at the beginning of the last century.
        Was the people of the 90s dumber?

        Quote: S_mirnov

        And since the people began to hang bourgeois on poles, then they brought him to the extreme. And so the Russian people, in my opinion even too much patient!

        So the Russian people did not hang up. The Russian people were hanged under the leadership of the Kagtava handful, which in the end was "hanged" itself. bully
        1. vladkavkaz
          vladkavkaz 17 September 2013 09: 57 New
          -1
          GreatRussia
          Were you not tired of raving?
          Whatever comment is so crap on crap, is it now so taught at the Central House of Artists?
          "Quote: S_mirnov
          It now does not belong to them, but belongs to a specific uncle, the owner of the bank. The land used to be a Public Domain!
          GreatRussia Do you understand the difference between a declaration with a declaration and practice "- Did you understand the stupidity of your statement in an attempt to disavow your opponent?
          In North Ossetia
          , the land of agricultural purpose is already practically all bought up by 6 families, as they are called ALDARS, exactly as before the age of 17, to this with 90 all the sharashka of fornication with tongues aspired? Judging by the mass of nonsense that you ran into here, in the information service, these "Aldars" in you are on an all-Russian scale, it is not for nothing that you have stuck your nickname - GreatRussia, right?
          How much do they pay to bring such bad ideas to society as you have in the comments?
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 17 September 2013 10: 13 New
            -1
            Quote: vladkavkaz
            GreatRussia
            Were you not tired of raving?
            Whatever comment is so crap on crap, is it now so taught at the Central House of Artists?

            Are these all the arguments? Is this all the knowledge that is laid in you in schools of scientific atheism?


            Quote: vladkavkaz
            How much do they pay to bring such bad ideas to society as you have in the comments?

            Would you go to your Vladikavkaz ... to earn money by voting for a mosque to them. Kadyrov with Vovnushki and so on.
            1. vladkavkaz
              vladkavkaz 17 September 2013 18: 33 New
              0
              GreatRussia
              The youth is sharp, with a fiery look, inflamed brains, a mind obscured, stupid comments ...
              Be content with my koment and calm down — don’t know how to engage in propaganda — don’t take it, for it’s stupid, unlearned and scabbled.
              And the arguments for you and those who are bouncing with you here are simply NO.
  • Uncle
    Uncle 16 September 2013 18: 56 New
    0
    Quote: S_mirnov
    the next step may well be Tsar the father of all Russia

    Smirnov, but that was just 400 years ago! Why do you, of course, an intelligent person, deny the possibility that the people who have suffered from the injustice of the boyars will want the Tsar again?
    1. S_mirnov
      S_mirnov 16 September 2013 19: 30 New
      +3
      Quote: Uncle
      Why do you, of course, an intelligent person, deny the possibility that the people who have suffered from the injustice of the boyars will want the Tsar again?

      Because time goes on! and we will no longer be able to GOODLY return to the past! Neither in the USSR, nor in Tsarist Russia! The situation in the world has changed and there is no safe return to the past. We need to build the future by studying the lessons of the past and taking the best from it - discard the obsolete! And the country must be governed by a smart and honest person. And mind and honor are not a priori inherited! and in fact it doesn’t matter what this person will be called - the president, tsar or patriarch of all Russia. The main thing is that smart and honest patriots are at the helm of the state!
      And to come up with and implement the principles according to which only smart and honest patriots can come to power in the country is the business of each and every citizen of the Russian Federation. Nobody will do it for us! Is that to come up, in my opinion already come up
      http://igpr.ru/aim
      , it remains to translate.
  • Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 16 September 2013 21: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: S_mirnov
    God's word in kindergartens and schools (what’s it, in institutes and in the army!)
    1. S_mirnov
      S_mirnov 16 September 2013 22: 00 New
      +1
      Who would doubt that! The process of extinction of history has already begun!
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 17 September 2013 04: 21 New
        -3
        Quote: S_mirnov
        Who would doubt that! The process of extinction of history has already begun!

        Indeed, who would doubt that your militant atheists-Bolshevich-co-religionists from the Bolshevik agitprop extorted something that did not coincide with their worldview:

        March 31 Korney Chukovsky marks 120 years. The writer's granddaughter and heiress, Elena Chukovskaya, agreed to tell the GAZETA correspondent about some unknown episodes in her grandfather's life.

        "God, God, what happened ..."

        Interestingly, of all the children's fairy tales, "Crocodile" has undergone a particularly serious censorship. First, Chukovsky had to replace Petrograd with Leningrad, then - "spoke German" with "spoke Turkish". Then the censors did not like such a character as the policeman. On this occasion, there are very funny letters from Korney Ivanovich. Unfortunately, in Soviet times, there was not much to be said. About Christmas, for example. All this he had to change. Now it is difficult to publish these books, focusing on the original version: Chukovsky's tales have already entered the consciousness so much that any change can shock the reader.

        Here's a comic case. Chukovsky in "Moidodyr" was: "God, God, what happened, why is everything around ..." "God, God" we couldn't, so he was forced to replace this phrase. And for a long time in "Moidodyr" came out "What is it, what happened ...", but there was no rhyme. There is even a letter to the editor, where Chukovsky asks to be allowed "God, God ..." The last edition came out like this: "What is it, what happened ..." Then I once wrote this very "God, God ...": I just corrected it in proofreading, and such a publication came out. The deputy editor-in-chief of the Malysh publishing house summoned me. It turned out that an indignant letter came to them from somewhere, almost from the Far East. Parents wrote that their son is 14 years old and he supposedly reads Chukovsky's fairy tales. Changing the words of a fairy tale familiar from childhood, one should take into account what harm this can bring to his young fragile soul. So the question of the canonical texts of fairy tales is not so simple.

        http://www.chukfamily.ru/Elena/Interview/Povezlo.htm
  • slaventi
    slaventi 16 September 2013 12: 55 New
    +7
    You don’t have to go far for examples: the XIII-XV century, the Horde invasion, which completely ruined the country, deprived it of not only troops, but also state sovereignty.

    The invasion of the liberals is worse than the Mongol yoke. The Mongols at least did not intervene in the spiritual sphere and did not set the goal of destroying Russia. Now, with the help of corrupt officials and media controlled by our enemies, a destructive liberal ideology is being imposed, which turns a person into an animal. Therefore, we rarely see real heroes, but they are not few.
  • Djozz
    Djozz 16 September 2013 13: 07 New
    +5
    By the way, when awarding the insignia of the Order of St. George, Muslim soldiers very often refused to accept the "Yegoria" in the "Muslim" performance for the Gentiles, i.e. with a two-headed eagle, and not with George the Victorious, demanding to give them a cross with the image of St. George!
    1. Hon
      Hon 17 September 2013 10: 23 New
      0
      Correction give them a cross with a jigit
  • chushoj
    chushoj 16 September 2013 13: 09 New
    -2
    There is such a thought among the people. And a historical essay on this topic is like a balm for the souls of Orthodox Christians and Russians (Ukrainians, Belarusians) without faith. The article does not show the very essence of the influence of Orthodoxy on the brain. Orthodox feelings and understanding of the essence of the author himself are not visible in the article. If a person does not see the thought "what to do" and "what to orientate on", then such a person does not inspire confidence. Sorry, but these are the realities of today.
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 16 September 2013 13: 14 New
    0
    I am a Christian, but I am against the sliding of the state, its institutions towards the ROC. This is dangerous in general and in particular.
    It is dangerous in general, because a secular state that provides freedom of conscience and equality, having suddenly become the first among equal ROCs, creates a dangerous precedent. The state is obliged to provide the armed forces and the whole society with a clear and motivating ideology. The fruits of a 25-year rampant deideologization are obvious. Someone other than the state itself cannot be allowed into this failure.
    In particular, everything is dangerous for household anti-something there.
    Have a nice week! And all the best, friends! smile hi
  • georg737577
    georg737577 16 September 2013 13: 48 New
    +5
    Quote: S_mirnov
    The modern oligarchic elite who came to power in the Russian Federation - can not physically offer citizens an acceptable value system !!!

    All right! And can’t. Plus to you!
    1. Uncle
      Uncle 16 September 2013 18: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: georg737577
      All right! And can’t.

      And the Church can, I personally live in that system of values ​​...
  • Gloomy
    Gloomy 16 September 2013 13: 49 New
    0
    Seems to me, Author Roman Ilyushchenko is a second-hand "political fighter", from a dense galaxy of Brezhnev propagandons, when the wind changes, suddenly turned into priests and religious scholars.
    The signature: "Lieutenant Colonel of the Reserve, Bachelor of Religious Studies" - was the text omitted intentionally and deliberately in this publication?
    Everyone has the right to their beliefs and errors, unforgivable treason and blatantly manipulating historical ignorance.
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 16 September 2013 14: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: Moody
      Seems to me, Author Roman Ilyushchenko - second-hand "political soldier", from a dense galaxy

      Absolutely true. 1989 year-end of the Lviv Military-Political School. 2004 year-end of the St. Tikhon Theological Institute. 15 years and everything in order, was a lieutenant colonel, became a religious scholar.
      Quote: Moody
      Brezhnev propaganda, when the wind changed, instantly turned priests and religious scholars.

      No respect.
      1. Gloomy
        Gloomy 16 September 2013 15: 45 New
        +7
        I recall the murderous question on Mr. Pozner live on TV.
        ~ like this:
        “Until 90, you stigmatized American imperialism and promoted Marxist-Leninist ideology. Now you are taking an absolutely opposite position.
        When did you lie? Then or now? ... ".

        In response, Posner fell into a stupor, frantically opening and slamming his lying mouth.
    2. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 17 September 2013 10: 02 New
      +2
      Gloom RU
      100 "hit.
      It is from these political tales that were rebuilt in time that the author of this opus is constantly published in the military-industrial complex, and in the comments, under the nickname Roman, the lengthy comments of stupidity and the mass of distortions, rotten opus comments, and the wild propaganda of religion on the verge of madness are any neophyte, sometimes holier than the pope ...
      Talking about knowing the story with this Roma is useless ...
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 16 September 2013 13: 56 New
    +1
    PS
    I was always "touched" by the newsreel footage of the First World War, when there are two lines, on opposite sides of the front and on one side a Lutheran priest, passing along the line, blesses the army for battle and prays to God for victory, and on the other side, an Orthodox priest, passing along the line, blesses army to battle, praying SAME GOD about victory.
    Both powers lost and fell apart.
    I do not gloat, it is insanely bitter to me.
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 16 September 2013 14: 04 New
      -4
      Quote: Peaceful military
      Both powers lost and fell apart.

      And the funny thing is that Russia was in the community of victorious countries, but at the same time it lost and fell apart. And thanks for that, we can say to the "fiery" revolutionaries, especially to the disrespectful comrade Lenin.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 16 September 2013 14: 10 New
        +6
        Quote: Warrawar
        And thanks for that, we can say to the "fiery" revolutionaries, especially to the disrespectful comrade Lenin.
        For objectivity, it would be worth recalling that Lenin merely picked up what the then revolutionary democrats had managed to miscalculate. Almost the same as today ... request RCP (b) at that time was too tiny a party to seriously influence something
        1. Warrawar
          Warrawar 16 September 2013 14: 32 New
          +3
          Quote: Misantrop
          For objectivity, it would be worth recalling that Lenin only picked up what the then democrats-revolutionaries managed to miscalculate.

          For objectivity, it is also necessary to add that Lenin received abundant funding from Germany (the enemy of Russia in the 1st World War), for revolutionary activity. And sincerely rejoiced in the defeats of the Russian army on the fronts.
          "The worse the better" is just his slogan.
          1. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 16 September 2013 16: 20 New
            -1
            Kamo-Ter Petrosyan and Stalin took more from Russian banks than Germany. And what kind of power is this that can be undermined by funding an insignificant and insignificant party? As if we are talking about the ruin of a bank, and not about a country "Over which the sun does not set."
      2. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 16 September 2013 14: 43 New
        +1
        And the funny thing is that Russia was in the community of victorious countries, but at the same time it lost and fell apart.

        Vladislav!
        Your brains are clogged with liberal cliches that have nothing to do with the truth.
        And the truth is that Russia served a community of winners, a priori not seen by the winners as their equal. Moreover, the "allies" sparingly wove such intrigues, from which the Russian Empire collapsed.
        And thanks for that, we can say to the "fiery" revolutionaries, especially to the disrespectful comrade Lenin.

        And we can thank the liberals of that time, such as Krensky and others like him, and the "allies" ("partners"), who generously financed all this and even refused to accept the king and his family. Lenin was not even there.
        1. Warrawar
          Warrawar 16 September 2013 14: 48 New
          0
          Quote: Peaceful military
          Vladislav!
          Your brains are clogged with liberal cliches that have nothing to do with the truth.
          And the truth is that Russia served a community of winners, a priori not seen by the winners as their equal. Moreover, the "allies" sparingly wove such intrigues, from which the Russian Empire collapsed.

          Yes it is your brains crammed with "liberal" clichés. That's right, the "allies" wove intrigues, from which the Russian Empire collapsed. One such intrigue was the October Revolution, which was financed by both "allies" and enemies such as Germany and Japan.
          1. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 16 September 2013 16: 25 New
            0
            This coup began to be called the "October Revolution" only in the time of Stalin. Initially, only "Coup".
      3. Gloomy
        Gloomy 16 September 2013 15: 48 New
        0
        Did you get this information in preparation for the exam?
        You have been deceived ...
        "This was all invented by Churchill, in 18 ..."!
      4. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 16 September 2013 16: 14 New
        -3
        Thank you Nikolashka for this: in 1915, from 10 to 15 soldiers did not come from the battalion on Easter, in 1916 10 people from the battalion came on Easter. So what have fiery revolutionaries got to do with it? If the faith in God was undermined by his inaction Nikolai the Bloody. The conversation is not about Easter in 1917. When the interim government was overthrown and it was not "ardent revolutionaries" who did it, they just barely had time to divide the power.
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 16 September 2013 16: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: shasherin_pavel
          If faith in God was undermined by his inaction, Nikolai the Bloody.

          Another stamp from those whose hands are really elbows in the blood.


          ..... nicknamed RADICAL OPPOSITION "Nikolai the Bloody"; with such a nickname figured in Soviet popular historiography.


          Well, and what is the difference from the swamp tusnas, giving nicknames to Putin and so on?
          1. Warrawar
            Warrawar 16 September 2013 18: 57 New
            -2
            Quote: GreatRussia
            Another stamp from those whose hands are really elbows in the blood.


            ..... nicknamed RADICAL OPPOSITION "Nikolai the Bloody"; with such a nickname figured in Soviet popular historiography.

            Well, and what is the difference from the swamp tusnas, giving nicknames to Putin and so on?

            There is no difference, only a stubborn person may not understand this. It's as if a world war was going on now, in which Russia would participate, and Lesha Navalny, meanwhile, traveled to Russian cities and incited people to revolution (getting money for this from the State Department). Here is Lenin, this is Navalny, only from the last century, and the whole revolutionary shobla is modern "white-ginned" and swamp rot.
            And people who justify and defend revolutionaries should also support modern revolutionaries - Navalny, Sobchak, Novodvorskaya, Alekseev, Svanidze, etc. However, for some reason they do not want to do this (double standards). They refer to the fact that "those" revolutionaries destroyed the state out of good intentions and generally brought civilization to backward Russia, while modern revolutionaries are bad, they are agents of the State Department and all that. Although it is absolutely obvious that both those and others of the same field are berries.
      5. Hon
        Hon 17 September 2013 11: 50 New
        0
        Quote: Warrawar
        And thanks for that, we can say to the "fiery" revolutionaries, especially to the disrespectful comrade Lenin.

        First of all, thanks for this, I must say to Nikolai the holy fool
    2. Serg 122
      Serg 122 16 September 2013 14: 17 New
      +1
      But someone heated his hands on this! After all, this war was unnecessary to any of the parties involved in it
  • DPN
    DPN 16 September 2013 14: 00 New
    +2
    An article in general rubbish can only call for interfaith rubbish. The USSR won at the expense of all the people living in it and faith in a better future. Now with the collapse of the country, built by kapstroy, there are more poor and unemployed. So the article correctly teaches one of its own slaves to humility, and to the masters of life another. We lived under communism
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 16 September 2013 14: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: DPN
      The USSR won at the expense of all the people living in it and faith in a better future.

      However, the USSR took out the Second World War on Russian shoulders (which Stalin personally said), and the rest of the people "inhabiting" it did not show themselves.
      But all subsequent conflicts were lost, and the "bright ideals of communism" were exchanged for chewing gum and jeans, and without the slightest twinge of conscience.
      1. DPN
        DPN 16 September 2013 15: 00 New
        0
        We will not touch on nationality. Fascists came from the West and the Slavic population stood in its way, it was far from Asia and the Urals, so we got more. In the current conditions, if there weren’t the NUCLEAR RESERVE of the USSR, Iron Lady Margaret and NATO would have gone through the OIL to the Urals. WE are strong when united, mainly in TROUBLE. We had an equal society, we can disagree on something, and we lived without guards; now this is the main productive force, how many are in stores.
        1. Warrawar
          Warrawar 16 September 2013 15: 10 New
          +3
          If so, this is not an argument. The nationalities stood up under the banners of the Reich, in droves, not even anyone forced them. There is no need to remember Vlasovites; there they recruited from the number of POWs.
          Constantly, everything rests on some kind of "strength in unity", only examples of this "unity" for some reason are not. But there are more than enough examples of betrayal and collaboration. And the reason for this is simple, the national does not need to die for a state alien to him, he does not care where he will have a capital, in Moscow or in Brussels / Washington. Therefore, when the next time it flares up in Russia, the Caucasian horsemen will be the first to stick a knife in the back.
          1. Warrawar
            Warrawar 16 September 2013 15: 33 New
            +6
            By the way, here's a good example of "unity":
            “At the end of the match, a group of Dagestani fans of Anji broke through for free in the metro, where riot police tried to detain them. As Ridus notes, citing eyewitness reports, Dagestanis shouting "Die, Russia" began to fight with their fists and feet with the riot policemen on duty at the metro stations. The biggest skirmish took place at the Cherkizovskaya station. "
        2. Gloomy
          Gloomy 16 September 2013 16: 00 New
          0
          The number of personnel of security companies in the Russian Federation is already successfully approaching 1 people.
          Here it is - the modern army of victorious capitalism!
          Guard of the oligarchy!
          In comparison: according to the State Duma, in 2012 the real strength of the Russian Armed Forces was approximately 800 thousand people.
          1. Warrawar
            Warrawar 16 September 2013 16: 14 New
            +2
            Quote: Moody
            The number of personnel of security companies in the Russian Federation is already successfully approaching 1 people.

            Sense is from a million "Sashkov Borodachi". And in the United States, by the way, private security companies are quite combat-ready paramilitary formations, they are even involved in hostilities.
          2. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 16 September 2013 22: 49 New
            0
            Quote: Moody
            The number of personnel of security companies in the Russian Federation is already successfully approaching 1 people.

            Ministers of worship (Orthodox) are also in the region of a million.
  • DPN
    DPN 16 September 2013 14: 15 New
    +3
    Another year over in central Russia I did not see more than one Muslim woman in their religious attire, now I have the feeling that we are living in the east. This is what the author of the article looks like and wants. A person may believe that he likes it only if it was for the good of the country, and not for its destruction.
  • dmb
    dmb 16 September 2013 14: 31 New
    +4
    There is no more terrible whoops than political politicians "reformed" into zealots of Orthodoxy. Moreover, the author tries to ascribe his own illiteracy to other fellow citizens. It was his fault that he had not read about Ermolov and Kotlyarevsky, Kostenetsky and Baklanov before. They were written about in Soviet times and not at all 4 lines. The ex-political officer is also not on friendly terms with logic. According to him, the umbilical cord between the state and the church was torn by Peter, and it is she who, according to Ilyushchenko, is the guarantee of all success. It is not clear only how then this "impulse" coped with Narva and Poltava. Again, it is not clear how, with such a "torn", Suvorov, Ushakov won victories, and then according to the list he provided. And the list headed by Frunze completely contradicts the author's slender concept of victory. Perhaps the author does not know, but in the Civil War it was the "godless atheists" who won, and not the Orthodox army, to which he apparently ranks the Emir of Bukhara.
    1. Gloomy
      Gloomy 16 September 2013 16: 52 New
      0
      Totally agree with you. soldier
    2. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 17 September 2013 18: 37 New
      0
      dmb
      EXCELLENT answer and justification for the answer !!!
  • Ross
    Ross 16 September 2013 15: 05 New
    +1
    Quote: vladsolo56
    Horror, what a sore imagination. To claim that only the church will save Russia. What are they trying to bring us under the new Orthodox Inquisition?


    Everyone remembers also that before the Battle of Kulikovo the Moscow Prince Dmitry Donskoy did not go for blessing advice — somewhere to the magi-shamans or the Pope, but to the “lamp of the Russian land” the Monk Sergius of Radonezh.


    Until the 19 century, St. Sergius of Radonezh did not accept the Church as it was, as he was a Vedic priest, he communicated with nature and animals as a pagan magician.
    While examining the documents of that time, Dmitry Donskoy did not even visit Sergius, and the Metropolitan of the Greek-Russian Church even sent for renunciation to the Church of Dmitry for approval in Constantinople. Therefore, the article looks like a solid pathos.
    It is not religion that needs to be attracted, but the traditional qualities of a Russian character, uniting all the tribes of Russia for millennia. Religion only leads to a split.
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 16 September 2013 16: 23 New
      +1
      I want to add. In Russia, ordinary people always lived very hard, sometimes to such an extent that they exploded, riots occurred, or revolution can be said, there were many of them, so it makes no sense to list them. So the guardians of Orthodoxy, name at least one example when the church would take the side of the people? individual clergy can not even be remembered. So there has never been such a thing. The church from the very beginning was an instrument of power, people were told that everything was from God, and power too.
      And now the same church is not for the people, but for power.
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 16 September 2013 16: 43 New
        -1
        Quote: vladsolo56
        So there has never been such a thing. From the very beginning, the church was an instrument of power,

        No not like this. From the very beginning, the authorities tried to bend it and make it an instrument of power.

        Quote: vladsolo56

        people were told that everything is from God, and power too.

        Again, you are carrying illiteracy religious nonsense, while not realizing what you are carrying. Read about the Acceptance and Will of God, according to their difference. Well, it’s impossible to primitize like this, pushing such complex philosophical things to fit your own worldview.


        And now the same church is not for the people, but for power.

        So the people chose this power. Who told you that the people are against Putin, huh?
        1. vladsolo56
          vladsolo56 16 September 2013 17: 08 New
          0
          Words, you give real examples from history, everything else is just words and propaganda
    2. shasherin_pavel
      shasherin_pavel 16 September 2013 16: 33 New
      0
      However, it was Sergius of Radonezh who created the monastery, as we see them now, it was he who made all the monks transfer their property to the monastery, as well as the land. If before a monk could live in a house and only come to a prayer service, tearing himself away from his land, now, on the initiative of Sergius, he should live in his cell and transfer the land allotment and property to the monastery. And not one Sergius distinguished himself standing out among the Orthodoxy.
      1. vladsolo56
        vladsolo56 16 September 2013 17: 10 New
        0
        I clearly expressed isolated examples of individuals do not count, An example of the church as a whole.
  • Stalinets
    Stalinets 16 September 2013 15: 43 New
    +1
    The author of the article can be assigned church rank, and keep away from the army. Why mix religion and the army? These are diametrically opposite things .. yes
    1. Cpa
      Cpa 16 September 2013 16: 27 New
      -1
      Quote: Stalinist
      . Why mix religion and the army?

      He recorded himself in the crusaders. laughing
      1. Stalinets
        Stalinets 17 September 2013 00: 15 New
        0
        Exactly !!!! It remains to send him ..... to fight someone laughing
  • IGS
    IGS 16 September 2013 15: 59 New
    0
    Minus. Article from the "evil one".
    1. IGS
      IGS 16 September 2013 17: 09 New
      +1
      Someone made a comment. So I’ll explain why I think the article is harmful. Look at the ratings for the article, almost in half, i.e. the article caused a split, is it interesting that Orthodoxy ever tried to cause a split? The union is yes, but not a split. And the author knew this; he wrote for this. With all the beautiful words and messages, the predicted and planned result of this article is incitement to contradictions, which has nothing to do with the church and faith.
      1. Stalinets
        Stalinets 17 September 2013 00: 19 New
        -1
        What does the army have to do with the church ???????? It is difficult to unite people on the basis of Christianity. Maybe Orthodoxy, but not Christianity. On the basis of the motherland, it is necessary to unite, not religion. What to believe is a private matter for everyone. yes
  • rinat1955
    rinat1955 16 September 2013 16: 16 New
    0
    Quote: V. Tarasyan
    The eagle is cool, the truth somehow looks aggressive.


    This eagle in the picture, was going to fight left and right, so to speak, on two fronts at once with NATO and with the PLA ... and even if it took rockets into its claws, otherwise it won’t fight a lot with AK = 47
  • I'm Russian
    I'm Russian 16 September 2013 16: 18 New
    +2
    The Batu hordes when attacked Russia were pagans, and Islam was adopted a little later. In general, the Horde did not oppress any of the religions in its empire. And separatism has now blossomed in Russia as never before from Karelia to Yakutia. And, the most offensive, is that the government does not fight properly with its manifestations ...
  • rinat1955
    rinat1955 16 September 2013 16: 23 New
    -5
    Quote: Warrawar
    However, the USSR took out the Second World War on Russian shoulders (which Stalin personally said), and the rest of the people "inhabiting" it did not show themselves.


    Do you know that the Panfilov division, with which it all started, was 80% Kazakhs?
    Are you aware that the Ingush defended the Brest Fortress (2 echelons of May conscripts) what does the GDP say?
  • creak
    creak 16 September 2013 16: 43 New
    +7
    The Brest fortress was defended not by Ingush recruits, but by units of the 6th, 42nd personnel rifle divisions, as well as units and units of army and district subordination. In these units and units of the Ingush, Chechens and other representatives of the North Caucasus there were no more Red Army formations. A lot of serious documents and memoirs of defense participants have been published long ago where there are no references to these echelons ... Therefore, these tales are worthless in the spirit of an alternative story ...
    1. waisson
      waisson 16 September 2013 18: 11 New
      +1
      guys inappropriately in the past - live today
  • Gloomy
    Gloomy 16 September 2013 17: 08 New
    +4
    Quote: rinat1955
    Quote: Warrawar
    However, the USSR took out the Second World War on Russian shoulders (which Stalin personally said), and the rest of the people "inhabiting" it did not show themselves.


    Do you know that the Panfilov division, with which it all started, was 80% Kazakhs?
    Are you aware that the Ingush defended the Brest Fortress (2 echelons of May conscripts) what does the GDP say?


    "... The bulk of 316th (Panfilovskaya) was made up of Russians, Ukrainians, Kazakhs and Kyrgyz. For example, in the battalion commanded by senior lieutenant Momysh-uly, there were about a third of Kazakhs, the rest were Russians and Ukrainians. Most of all Kyrgyz, conscripts from the city of Frunze (present-day Bishkek), ended up in the 1077th regiment, which was called “Kyrgyz.” In addition, a significant number of fighters of the 316th division were Semirechye Cossacks. The 1075th rifle regiment was formed from the inhabitants of the villages of Lyubavinskaya and Vernenskaya and from the Cossacks of the villages of Nadezhdenskaya and Sofiyskaya - 1073. The commander of the 316th division was appointed Major General IV Panfilov, who held the post of military commissar of Kyrgyzstan ... ".
    Source: http://www.tankovedia.ru/pulication/316-ya_strelkovaya__diviziya_generala_panfil
    ova
  • Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 16 September 2013 17: 14 New
    +3
    You guys shouldn't be running into Orthodoxy. This is the last of the Christian denominations that fights to preserve traditional values. Protestants massively liberalize tolerasts. Catholic France has passed a law allowing same-sex marriage, the Pope recently spoke about homosexuals in the style of "ours and yours." In such a reality, allies will always come in handy.
  • Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 16 September 2013 17: 25 New
    -1
    Guys sorry for the one who zamusnuval. I don’t understand anything, I click on plus, but it turns out minus. But the article turned out to be her minus.
  • rinat1955
    rinat1955 16 September 2013 18: 22 New
    0
    On the topic of the Ingush in the Brest Fortress ... after the Belarusian film, somewhere in the forums, I ran into the relevant polemic .. and then a quote from the GDP on the contribution of the Ingush to the defense of the Brest Fortress. I’m closer to the authority of the GDP than to some researchers (these are what the hosh will turn to, where the hosh is, I remember the opinion of a familiar nuclear scientist who could explain the Chernobyl disaster from any angle, and all with immutable facts and arguments). And then I climbed the Ingush sites, too, you know.

    For the Panfilov division, yes here .. there is little information, I only have it from familiar Kazakhs. Everything can be both how you say and how I am.
    Found in .. The national composition of the division was as follows:
    - Kyrgyz - 11 percent, Kazakhs - 11, Russians - 67, Ukrainians - 8, the remaining 3 percent - representatives of other nationalities of the Soviet Union

    Do not forget that the Kazakhs have a lot of Genghisides ... not by any means cowards or fools.

    I do not argue on the topic of Christianity as a defender of true values, but homosexuals are also not much respected by Muslims (to put it mildly). And the Buddhists? Not in courses ... By the way, how does the Jewish faith itself relate to homosexuals? Also not in courses. I mean.

    And on the topic of atheists on the fronts. In vain you are so ... a well-known, proven saying says there are no atheists under fire.
  • slacker
    slacker 16 September 2013 18: 39 New
    +4
    The pathos of the article is clear. But I am afraid that the church is not suitable as the savior of the spirit of the nation. The moral character of its servants is painfully low at all levels. And it didn't start yesterday. not without reason 200 years ago Pushkin wrote "The Tale of the Priest and His Worker Balda". So attempts to make a messiah out of the church is just a PR campaign of churchmen and in the interests of churchmen.
    The spirit of the Russian people can be very quickly raised by those actions of the current or other authorities, which will rely on raising the level of the Russian people, which today is practically deprived of the right to manage their own state in favor of parasitic and often hostile national minorities.
    1. Stalinets
      Stalinets 17 September 2013 00: 22 New
      -1
      I completely agree with you !!! yes
  • pahom54
    pahom54 16 September 2013 19: 33 New
    +2
    Here on the pages we swear, reproach each other for something incomprehensible and move away from the main topic ... The problem is that until 1917 the people fought, as already mentioned, "for Faith, Tsar and Fatherland" ... that is for faith, power and homeland. On the basis of church commandments, a moral code of the builder of communism was created, which also did not teach bad things. We will not talk about the hyped and contrived supposedly heroes, which are mentioned in the article, but let's say that in those days the people really had some kind of ideology, the people for the most part at least knew (or thought they knew), what it strives for.
    The main issue of modern Russia is the lack of the necessary, necessary ideology, which allows to unite the peoples living in Russia, regardless of nationalities and religions. At the moment, there is NO such ideology.
    To dive about the harm and benefits that the church, that the communist influence is useless. That the Church, that any party is essentially an ideology that carries with it a certain part of the people - that is, the backbone, the foundations of Russian statehood. At the moment, as I said, there is no such ideology, and even, it would seem (this is the author of the article), there is no alternative to the Church.
    I would say differently - Russia needs a leader who is strong, smart and moderately tough and cynical. Our GDP (not to be confused with gross domestic product) at the moment lacks one thing: a true desire and ability to fight corruption in the country. If VVP manages to take this step, many will follow it, especially since at the present stage, no matter what the "swamps" shout, it manifests itself as a patriot of Russia. Defeat the dominance of officials, make them serve the people and the state, and the necessary unifying ideology will appear on its own - people will know what the ruling elite thinks about them, knows their needs and addresses them. Then the patriotic worldview will prevail among the majority of Russian citizens, then we will not poke at nationality and judge which people are better, which is worse. And what to call this system is indifferent, if only it would benefit the people, the people understood this, AND THEN HE WILL GO INTO BATTLE with the same call with which our ancestors went; FOR FAITH, POWER AND FATHERLAND.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 16 September 2013 23: 08 New
      0
      Quote: pahom54
      The main issue of modern Russia is the lack of the necessary, necessary ideology, which allows to unite the peoples living in Russia, regardless of nationalities and religions. At the moment there is NO such ideology
      The lack of ideology and the refusal to bring it to life are several different things: Reread the first 2 chapters of the Constitution - everything is fine there, and the ideology embodied in the Constitution has the status of the Basic Law - only this ideology is not implemented in practice, but everyone puts it on the Basic Law, including the guarantor.

      Russia needs a leader, strong, smart and moderately tough and cynical
      If the first person of the state is not under the control of the people, we will also have what we have now.

      he manifests himself as a patriot of Russia
      How is this?
      While he looks like a semi-patriot of Syria.
  • Gloomy
    Gloomy 16 September 2013 20: 23 New
    0
    Quote: pahom54
    ... The main issue of modern Russia is the lack of the necessary, necessary ideology, which allows to unite the peoples living in Russia, regardless of nationalities and religions. At the moment, there is NO such ideology. ...


    The "main", in your understanding, "the question of modern Russia", as such, in general, is not at all worth it. You are deluding and misleading the local community, if not maliciously, then due to personal lack of information.

    The Constitution of the Russian Federation

    Chapter 1. Fundamentals of the constitutional system


    Article 13

    1. The Russian Federation recognizes ideological diversity.

    2. No ideology can be established as a state or mandatory.

    .

    I am ashamed not to know the Basic Law of the state of which you are a citizen, dear.
    PS And your edifying and instructive tone that you allow yourself here is inappropriate, at least because of your ignorance.
  • Michael_59
    Michael_59 16 September 2013 20: 29 New
    +1
    Moody, I’m minus you.

    It is a shame not to know that the Basic Law was written by "people" who spat on the laws.
  • Gloomy
    Gloomy 16 September 2013 20: 59 New
    -2
    Quote: Michael_59
    Moody, I’m minus you.

    It is a shame not to know that the Basic Law was written by "people" who spat on the laws.


    That is, it must be understood that you personally, being a citizen of the Russian Federation, on the basis of your own subjective preferences, do not recognize and reject the current Constitution of the Russian Federation?

    You are a dangerous extremist, Mr. Mikhail_59, and your public dissemination of your unconstitutional views may well be regarded as a state crime that undermines the foundations of the constitutional system of the Russian Federation.
    1. Michael_59
      Michael_59 16 September 2013 21: 21 New
      0
      It is necessary to understand the subject of conversation, without which it makes no further sense.
      1. Gloomy
        Gloomy 16 September 2013 22: 01 New
        -3
        Yes, where can I, the ordinary realist, understand the fantasies and high (mystical and tremulous) emanations of the souls of the apologists of Orthodox Chekism.
        Do not even try!
  • Gloomy
    Gloomy 16 September 2013 23: 56 New
    -1
    Quote: Yarosvet
    Quote: Moody
    The number of personnel of security companies in the Russian Federation is already successfully approaching 1 people.

    Ministers of worship (Orthodox) are also in the region of a million.


    And what, too, is "really" tense, like a million "Sashkov Bearded" (which is clear from the enlightened testimony and statement of Mr. Warrawar)?

    It is quite possible, for the success of the ROC in multiplying its flock - "God's servants", frankly speaking, is poor.

    Only 2–4% of the population regularly attend churches, perform the necessary rituals, read religious literature, and therefore they can seriously be considered parishioners of the Russian Orthodox Church. In the Church, this category of people is called church believers. request
  • Michael_59
    Michael_59 17 September 2013 07: 19 New
    0
    Quote: Moody
    Yes, where can I, the ordinary realist, understand the fantasies and high (mystical and tremulous) emanations of the souls of the apologists of Orthodox Chekism.
    Do not even try!


    Worth it. The point is development. And I'm not talking about that, but about the Constitution of the Russian Federation, its authors and "applicants".

    In addition, liberoid stalling in just one pile with hanging tags does not honor you. Try to get rid of assaults on believers. What did they do wrong to you ???
    Or are you bothered by any attempts to unite and grow people in Russia?
  • hoot
    hoot 17 September 2013 20: 28 New
    0
    Quote: Russian
    The Batu hordes when attacked Russia were pagans, and Islam was adopted a little later. In general, the Horde did not oppress any of the religions in its empire. And separatism has now blossomed in Russia as never before from Karelia to Yakutia. And, the most offensive, is that the government does not fight properly with its manifestations ...

    As it seems to me, you are a little mistaken. First, the "Batu hordes" (Mongols) eventually adopted Buddhism. Secondly, if you are talking about the ancestors of the modern Tatars (descendants of the Volga Bulgars), then they converted to Islam before Kievan Rus (in 922).