Military Review

Results of the Ukrainian "independence": the bankruptcy of the economy and the state

101
Results of the Ukrainian "independence": the bankruptcy of the economy and the stateUkraine, having received state independence and inheriting a rich resource and production potential, did not show the ability not only to develop, but at least to preserve the economy, and is unable to build a new viable state and defend its sovereignty. Ukraine is turning into a mandated territory with a beggar, an endangered and scattering population, This is the result of the 20-year policy.


The economy of Ukraine failed in the first years of independence. More than 40% of fixed capital was lost, GDP fell by 60%, investment in fixed assets fell by 80%. This recession has not been overcome yet. Let's compare: Belarus's GDP in the early years dropped by 20%. The level of 1990 of the year was overcome in the early years of the two thousandth, all enterprises, including agricultural ones, were preserved and working, many new ones were created, there was practically no unemployment (0,6%). Initially possessing less than Ukraine, resources and production capacity, Belarus is achieving higher economic indicators. According to 2010, GDP per capita in Belarus is 12,3 thousand US dollars, an increase compared to 1995 g. - 2,9 times; in Ukraine - 6 thousand US dollars, an increase compared to 1995 g. - 1,5 times. The average salary currently in Belarus is $ 544, in Ukraine - $ 394.

But, most importantly, the economy of Ukraine is not developing. In all countries during periods of economic transformations, rapid growth occurred (USSR, Germany, Japan, China, etc.). Nothing of the kind is observed in Ukraine. After the catastrophic decline of the 90s, sluggish growth is occurring with depletion of the economic structure. The gross value added created in industry in 1991 was 36% of GDP, and in 2010 it was 27,1%. Mechanical engineering and metalworking in the volume of industrial production in 1991 were 26,4%, in 2011, 11,6%; light industry in 1991 g. - 12,3%, in 2011 g. - 0,7%. Many high-tech industries such as aircraft manufacturing, shipbuilding, turbines, synthetic diamonds and tools made of them, electronic devices, etc., have disappeared or are living out over the last few years. 5%). Ukraine is losing revenue even on the transit of oil and gas, whose pipeline systems are left from the USSR. Oil transit has shrunk to 6% power, gas transit has halved, and they continue to fall. There was no such destruction even as a result of the war. Already after 4,1 years after the war, in 25, the volume of industrial output of the Ukrainian SSR was in 10 times the prewar level. And now, after reaching the “independence” 1955 years have passed, and the initial volumes have not yet been reached [2,2].

There are obvious de-industrialization and degradation of the economy of Ukraine. Statistics and the media ignore the fact that Ukraine is experiencing huge unemployment. Officially considered 8%. But they do not include farmers in need of work. They somehow feed on household plots, but they have no money for other needs, including social, living and cultural ones. It would be necessary to take into account also the common part-time employment. From job security, you can add from 5 to 7 million people working abroad. In total, more than 23% of the economically active population was not provided with work. Compared with Spain or Greece!

The population of the country decreases, life expectancy does not increase. Back in the early 90s, the population was 52,2 million. Now 45 million. The Institute for Demography and Social Research predicts up to 2050 36 million [3]. But this will not happen, since the population will leave the country.

There is a decline in all areas.

Characterized by indicators of food-producing agriculture.

1 table. Production of livestock products per capita

Product 1990 2011
Meat and meat products 84 47
472 Milk 247
As you can see, the decrease is almost 2 times. The consumption of livestock products per capita [2] has decreased accordingly:

2 table. Consumption of livestock products per capita of Ukraine, kg
Product 1990 2011
Meat and meat products 68 51
Milk and Dairy 373 205

Falling capital equipment of agriculture:

3 table. Capital equipment of agriculture in Ukraine

1990 g. 2011 g. Reduction in%
Tractors, thousand pcs. 495 147 -70
Combine harvesters, thousand pieces. 107 32 -70
Trucks, thousand pieces. 296 101 -65,8
Cattle, thousand heads 24623 4426 -82,0
including 8378 cows 2582 -69,2
Pigs, thousands of heads 19427 7373 -62,0
Sheep and goats, thousand heads 8419 1739 -79,3

Calculations show a decrease of 70-80%. And how many destroyed farms, dismantled irrigation systems, repair equipment, etc.! The number of cows continues to decline annually. The stores sell counterfeit milk and dairy products (with palm oil, etc.) Imported meat of dubious origin and quality is imported. For Ukraine, which used to be proud of their lands and could feed the entire continent, this is a shame!

Internal causes of crises

Ukraine suffered two economic crises: the 90's and 2008-2009's. With 2012, the third crisis unfolds. And in front we can expect another serious crisis arising from the conditions for the upcoming entry of Ukraine into the zone of "free" trade with the EU. The crises of 2008 and 2013 have been affected by waves of global crisis. However, it is wrong to blame Ukraine’s economic crises. The main causes of all crises in Ukraine are of internal nature.

We have already talked about economic losses in 90 in the beginning of this article. This catastrophic crisis arose due to the wrong approach to reforms. The aspiration to destroy everything quickly prevailed. The entire system of economic management was broken, large industrial and technological complexes were broken down, enterprises were fragmented, and collective large enterprises in agriculture were liquidated. Hasty privatization and liberal permissiveness led to the plundering and liquidation of many enterprises. Hastily created a completely different monetary and financial system. It did not take into account that the new liberal system with a predominance of small private enterprises and the lack of planned regulation turns out to be much more expensive than the old one: the costs increased, the share of unproductive expenses increased, many times more money was required, etc. It was (and still is) a way of diverting the working capital of enterprises into taxes. Taxes began to exceed profits by many times. The share of unprofitable enterprises [4] has increased.

The consequences of the subsequent failure of the economy with hyperinflation and the loss of many high-tech industries in Ukraine have not been overcome to date. The level of the economy has fallen much and remains low.

A weakened economy. Ukraine has suffered the next crisis of 2008-2009. It began to form with 2005. Its main reasons were the chronic unprofitability of foreign trade, the increase in corporate foreign currency debt, the high share of foreign currency in lending, the predominant increase in imports compared to exports. The economy of Ukraine has become dependent on foreign loans. Therefore, when the wave of the global crisis rolled through, the demand for Ukrainian exports fell and the sources of foreign currency lending closed, the Ukrainian economy collapsed.

The wines of the ruling circles of Ukraine and their incompetence in the events of the crisis 2008-2009. are visible on the example of the created unprofitableness of foreign trade. Ukraine in the 2005 year hastily prompted the WTO. Customs import tariffs agreed with WTO were introduced. But they were in 2,5 times smaller than the average in the WTO. Because of this, imports began to prevail over exports, the budget lost large revenues, foreign trade became chronically unprofitable. Every year, Ukraine is losing up to 1,5 billion dollars on this. The current government came to a halt and asked the WTO to reconsider about 270 tariffs, but received a negative response. Moreover, in the context of association with the EU, further reduction and zeroing of the protective customs tariffs of Ukraine is envisaged. How could such a failure be allowed? And no one answered for it and did not admit the mistake. Neither Tymoshenko, nor Terekhin, nor Yatsenyuk, who signed the final documents, nor other leaders.

Almost the same can be said about inflating the inflow of foreign currency and the growth of its share in lending to the economy. And so on.

The crisis of 2008-2009. ended with a phase of social debt crisis. Debts and budget deficits increased, which creates the need to reduce social spending. What, as we see, is happening in Europe. The gross external debt of Ukraine in 2012 amounted to 36,6% of GDP, and in QI 2013 reached 136,3 billion dollars, which is 76,5% of GDP. The budget deficit in 2008 was 14,2 billion UAH, and in 2012, 50,7 billion UAH. Over the 5 months of 2013, it amounted to 18,5 billion UAH. or on an annualized basis 44,4 billion UAH.

Against this unfavorable background, the next financial and economic crisis began to unfold with 2012. After all, the main crisis-causing factors remained to act. Mainly, the loss of foreign trade, the prevailing growth in imports compared to exports, non-recovery of depreciation of fixed assets. Another circumstance has appeared - the non-repayment of investment costs in Euro-2012. The situation on foreign markets began to deteriorate again, the transit of energy carriers was falling. Sales problems can be solved as follows: joining the Customs Union, planned innovative product updates, lowering the hryvnia exchange rate. The last path is painful, but it will probably happen, and one would have to move carefully in this direction.

The opposition is dragging the country into the EU market, which will finally undermine the economy of Ukraine. EU requirements for it are just deadly [7].

In 2012, lending to the economy declined significantly. The volume of loans for the year increased by only 2,2%. Loan rates remained high - on average 17,5% in national currency. And this is in the conditions of almost no inflation, which, as we know, raises the interest rate. As a result, industrial production decreased by 2%, agricultural - by 4,5%. In 2013, zero or even negative GDP growth is expected. In the I quarter. 2013 r. It has already decreased by 1,1%. Over the 5 months of 2013, the volume of loans increased only by 1,9%. The level of lending rates in national currency averaged 15,2%. Industry output fell another 5,2%. By the way, the acute phase of the crisis 2008-20098. It began with a reduction in lending. Obviously, the Ukrainian economy has entered a deflationary depression - a difficult and long-lasting phase of instability. The economy is falling, debts are growing. The government again turned to the IMF for new loans. But the conditions of the IMF are known: an increase in gas, energy and housing and communal services for the population.

A harsh financial and economic crisis looms ahead if Ukraine signs an agreement on a free trade zone with the EU. The EU in the draft treaty provides for Ukraine to lower and zero the customs protective rates, restrict the export of Ukrainian goods, introduce a tough system of technical, sanitary, organizational and other standards, including changing the gauge of railways, restricting activities in energy markets, etc.

Customs tariffs are far from equal. So, for the export of pork from Ukraine the tariff is 10,2% + 93 euro per 100 kg, and from the EU - only 5%. Butter to Europe - 189,6 euros per kg 100, and to Ukraine - 10% with a decrease of 5 years. Sardines to Europe - 23%, to Ukraine - 0%. Tariff for wheat and to Europe - 94 euro per ton with a restrictive quota of 950-1000 thousand tons and corn - 94 euro per ton and a quota of 400-650 thousand tons. In addition, European producers receive subsidies that are limited for Ukraine and are prohibited. For metal products from Europe to Ukraine, a zero duty is set, and from Ukraine - arbitrary (whichever you want) [11]. At the same time, the vehicle offers a mutual removal of duties. The Russian budget for export duties will lose 5 billion dollars in favor of Ukraine, about the same - Gazprom [6].

All this will further worsen the financial condition of Ukraine, make it reduce production, bankrupt a lot of enterprises, especially small ones. Unemployment will increase greatly. You need to be the enemies of Ukraine to agree on the European version.

The argument in favor of the association and the common market with the EU is striking in its ignorance. Naive hopes for investment and technology cooperation. Innovative projects - expensive goods, weapon competition, and no one will give us. Foreign fixed capital investment over 20 years makes up only 5% of the total. They will not increase, since for an investor the main condition is the availability of a sales market and the opportunity to receive high profits. This is not the case in Ukraine, and when joining the EU, the situation will only get worse. There is an opinion that Ukrainian oligarchs are afraid of Russian business as stronger. As if European companies somehow stand on ceremony. Moreover, the Customs Union offers Ukraine only trade and production-cooperation cooperation without political and state-organizational integration, while the EU draws Ukraine into full organizational and political subordination to the emerging European confederation, where Ukraine as a third-rate province will have no rights. And the business conditions will be dictated by multinational companies.

Entry into the EU market for Ukraine is detrimental

The entry of Ukraine into the free trade zone with the EU will sharply worsen its economic situation, because Europe, due to a number of objective reasons, does not need finished goods from Ukraine. Europe needs only raw materials - low-grade metals, grains and oilseeds, as well as markets for their products. Therefore, the inclusion in the FTA with the EU for Ukraine will give the following consequences:

1. An increase in the flow of imports of goods, primarily consumer goods, and an increase in foreign trade unprofitability.
2. The suppression of the remnants of industrial production, non-primary agriculture (livestock, horticulture, vegetable growing, viticulture and winemaking), rising unemployment and poverty.
3. The death of the wholesale and retail trade of Ukraine under the competitive pressure of large European firms (these processes will primarily determine the ruin of small and medium businesses).
4. Consumer prices will rise to European levels with a few times lower wages.
5. The rise in price of imported gas and oil and the reduction of their transit
6. The final transformation of Ukraine into the impoverished raw-material semi-colony of the EU with an endangered and scattering population, as well as the decline of culture, education and, accordingly, language, not to mention science.
Ukraine already has a bitter experience. She hurriedly asked for it to the WTO. And what did she get? The constant financial deficit of foreign trade is about 10-15 billion US dollars per year. In 2011 a negative balance on goods amounted to 14,2 billion. And the government can not do anything about it.

Ukraine entered the European Energy Community. Thus, Russia's interest in the gas transportation consortium has been lost. Russia closes the ring of bypass channels for the supply of gas to Europe (North and South streams, the gas pipeline through Belarus) and, in fact, eliminates the gas transmission potential of Ukraine. And what does the European Energy Community give? Ukraine only loses. Neither the current government, nor the opposition can present any realistic arguments in favor of the FTA with the EU and European integration. Emotions for fools: we are Europeans. Refuse to join the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, the economic advantage of which is confirmed by practical calculations and practical evidence [5]. After all, Russia is importing a huge amount of food. By virtue of its historically developed specialization and connections, it is interested in industrial and scientific cooperation with Ukraine. Thus, very restrained calculations in a joint report of the Institute for National Economic Planning of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the Institute for Economics and Forecasting of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine showed that when Ukraine joins the Customs Union, export growth by 17,2%, or 6,2% to GDP, and a decrease in the value of imports by 5,8 billion can be expected. dale [5] In addition, you can count on the multiplicative effect of the growth in the volume of joint ventures and the development of cooperation in high-tech industries (for example, in the production of weapons, aerospace products, nuclear engineering). After all, even now the engineering products of Ukraine contain from 30 to 90 components from Russia. Improving the terms of trade, the abolition of export duties, reducing the price of gas to Ukraine can bring about 9 billion US per year. The volume of Ukraine's GDP may increase by 17%. All these calculations are indirectly confirmed by the practice of two years of the existence of the Customs Union of Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus. Over 2, the trade volume in the union grew 2 times.

The economy of Russia and the Customs Union is a huge, growing, growing market! And with protection from oppressive imports. By entering it, Ukraine could radically improve its economic position. In particular, by providing itself on acceptable terms with gas supplies and earnings for the transit of energy resources. The EU cannot offer anything like this. He is in deep crisis and has no prospects for significant growth.

For the impulse to development, a revival in the economy, a transition to growth, and a revitalization of entrepreneurship are needed. This requires the expansion of markets for products with relatively high added value. Such an opportunity in the EU markets for Ukraine is practically excluded. The products of mechanical engineering and non-primary agricultural sectors are still bought in Ukraine mainly in the East. In 2009, Ukraine’s exports to the CIS were 45% more than in the EU. At the same time, the share of machinery, equipment and instruments in exports for the CIS amounted to 58,7%, and for the EU - only 17,4%. In case of trade in engineering products from the CIS, Ukraine has a surplus of 4,2 billion US dollars, and with the EU a negative one, 6,1 billion US dollars. When trading with the EU, Ukraine’s imports by 46% exceed exports. When trading with the CIS, if gas and oil are not taken into account (these goods will not become cheaper when purchased in the EU), exports exceed imports [8]. That is, trade with the CIS is more profitable for Ukraine. Moreover, by developing the Eurasian direction, it is possible to achieve a reduction in gas prices.

Now Ukraine is advisable to shift the focus in trade relations eastward. We need a decisive turn in foreign economic policy, towards the Customs Union and the Eurasian space, otherwise there will be no conditions for development. And there is no need to identify trade and cooperation relations with the Customs Union and political integration with Russia. One must be able to remain politically independent, but use a cost-effective market.

The government’s intention to introduce Ukraine in parallel to the FTA with the EU and the FTA with the CIS, in our opinion, will not be able to give positive results or even be realized. Goods from the EU through the weakened customs border of Ukraine will begin to penetrate the markets of the CIS (disguised re-export, etc.). In addition, the flow of goods from Ukraine will be strengthened, being replaced by European goods. All this will force the CIS markets to defend themselves, and the free trade zone will crumble. Ukraine will not be able to sit on two chairs. We must be able to trade with everyone, but a special regime with lower customs tariffs must be coordinated between the two markets - without intermediaries. And they want to put Ukraine in the position of a translucent intermediary between markets that are not bound by customs agreements (not taking into account the general rules of the WTO). It is unlikely that anything will come out of this.

The opinion of the American specialist J. Perkins regarding the policy of the so-called free trade of Western states is instructive. “Free trade is a real euphemism. It gives transnational companies the privileges that national producers are deprived of. ” He cites an example of how the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) ravaged Mexico: “The American presidents and Congress introduced a whole system of rules that forbid other countries to levy American goods and subsidize local producers who could compete with our (American) agrofirms, but they have not abolished duties and subsidy programs in the United States, thus giving American agrofirms an unfair advantage. ” As a result, American agricultural firms flooded Mexico with dumping prices that do not cover production costs [9]. Something similar is being prepared for Ukraine.

If the government (anyone!) Does not have enough wit and will to reconsider the policy in the direction advantageous for Ukraine, the decline of the economy and the well-being of the population will increase, and Ukraine will lose state sovereignty.

Ukraine is a failed state.

So, the ruling circles of Ukraine (in full agreement with the so-called opposition) are bringing the economy to full bankruptcy. This is the most important manifestation of the inability of the government to govern the country. There are signs of a failed state.

1. The Constitution is violated and repeatedly revised.
2. The parliament does not work much of the time, making scandals and fights.
3. The parties that are members of parliament do not have fundamental program differences (except for the communists), but simply struggle for power in the interests of business.
4. Laws and decrees of the President are not carried out by the whole country, individual regions and cities establish regulatory rules and practices that are contrary to the general state. At the same time, the form of a unitary state is preserved.
5. The president and his party that supports him have completely abandoned their campaign promises and are pursuing a non-dependent and anti-national policy.
6. The policy of Ukraine is determined by external dictatorship and influence, the country, in fact, loses its sovereignty and in the near future will lose it completely; partial or full entry into the EU deprives Ukraine of the remnants of state independence, turns into an externally controlled territory;
7. The population of the country is not a political nation, there is no unity of views on the fundamental problems of the organization of society and politics; even the functioning of terrorist bases that train mercenaries and aiming at changing the state system (in Crimea) is allowed.
8. US agencies can completely ignore the existence of the state of Ukraine. Thus, the military department completely occupies the laboratories and repositories of pathogens of especially dangerous infections and conducts experiments on the population of Ukraine. In 2009, in Ternopil, there was an outbreak of pneumonic plague, which was hidden under the guise of supposedly influenza. It is likely that the “leakage” of the infection was intentional. This was said by one of the people's deputies of Ukraine.
9. The country has destroyed the rule of law. The state is not able to guarantee the inviolability of property. Raider seizures of enterprises, premises and apartments have become almost everyday. The conditions are the corruption of the city authorities and the courts.
10. The country has lost the ability to socio-economic development, the economy is degrading.

These are the results of the domination of the liberal-nationalist parties and the presidents and prime ministers they have nominated, as well as the Party of Regions, which lags behind them. The bankruptcy of the economy and the destruction of the national state. If you can still save something, then this requires a sharp turn in politics.
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  1. a52333
    a52333 23 August 2013 07: 57 New
    12
    The course of Russia at EBN = to nowhere is selected. If you go further along this path, in five years
    1) The western part of Ukraine works in Europe.
    2) Eastern emigrates or at a side job in the Russian Federation / Europe.
    3) Heavy industry closes under the pretext of non-environmental friendliness.
    3) Agricultural land is bought out by TNCs
    The "PRO" system in Kharkov, Lugansk and Donetsk regions.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 23 August 2013 08: 17 New
      22
      Quote: a52333


      The course of Russia at EBN = to nowhere is selected. If you go further along this path in five years .....


      I can say it can be rude, well, as it is. But nefig was fussing with temporary workers at the helm of the so-called "Ukraine", such as gas for 50 bucks, and so on. Shchimit Putin current ukrofyurerov in matters of trade and supply-little shchimit !!! Even more necessary. The cattle depot like Yanukovych does not understand another language.
      Example: Ukrainian oligarch of the Jewish spill, Poroshenko sells his chocolate-like muck in the Russian Federation and makes good money. For part of the proceeds of this pet, the hexagonal one contains the “5th channel” on TV, where hired journalists daily and nightly pour dirt on the Russian Federation. What kind of conversations can there be with such "partners"?

      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. 23 August 2013 08: 52 New
        15
        When Ukraine goes to the bottom, its elite will dump and will live cool in the west stolen, turning into Eurogays.

        This has already happened. Before the Khmelnitsky uprising, the local elite with pleasure turned into Poles.
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 23 August 2013 13: 51 New
        -4
        Quote: Hudo
        Shchimit Putin current ukrofyurerov in matters of trade and supply-little shchimit !!! Even more necessary.



        I’m going to turn on the telly .... based on your words and the author, Ukraine has long fallen apart ... wassat but I didn’t know ..... fellow
        it seems to be blacklisted on the forum after us, and the Kazakhs included Ukrainians ... smile
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 23 August 2013 09: 00 New
      13
      Gentlemen from Ukraine, in our last dispute, I did not receive an answer, only one question: What is the benefit of Ukraine from signing the ZTA with the EU? By numbers and I ask for numbers (if any) to bring without a la Russia is to blame for everything. In fact, Kars is especially concerned.
      1. agbykov
        agbykov 23 August 2013 11: 31 New
        0
        http://2000.net.ua/2000/derzhava/ekonomika/75309
        http://2000.net.ua/2000/derzhava/ekonomika/91572
      2. SHILO
        SHILO 23 August 2013 11: 31 New
        15
        There are no benefits, don’t mention for Kars (he’s a hopeless optimist). And if you honestly come on tanks - we will support!
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 23 August 2013 15: 50 New
          +5
          Quote: SHILO
          And if you honestly come on tanks - we will support!

          laughing You got a good koment like that, full of optimism. Now you are the personal enemy of Kars wassat
          1. SHILO
            SHILO 23 August 2013 18: 45 New
            +3
            And Kars and I have an old argument about optimism over the unfinished state of Ukraine.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 23 August 2013 12: 02 New
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        What is the benefit of Ukraine from signing the ZTA with the EU?


        I apologize for the second time I bring Glazyev’s video, but in my opinion you can’t say more precisely about the “benefits” for Ukraine from signing the ZTA with the EU. After the signing of the treaty, Ukraine becomes a European colony, but what else to call the situation if a country voluntarily gives up the economy and foreign policy to the enemy, this is clearly stated in the ZTS agreement.

        1. FATEMOGAN
          FATEMOGAN 23 August 2013 12: 17 New
          0
          A little more about the "benefit" of the ZTS for Ukraine.

    3. ale-x
      ale-x 23 August 2013 11: 32 New
      +2
      Crimea!! Forgot.
  2. Hauptmann emil
    Hauptmann emil 23 August 2013 07: 59 New
    -7
    Ours would also prosrai (although some have tried / are trying very hard), the country would be economically if there were no oil and gas.
    1. buga1979
      buga1979 23 August 2013 09: 40 New
      +4
      well potchi agree
    2. bootlegger
      bootlegger 23 August 2013 11: 09 New
      +7
      Not sure.
      I’m sure that the presence of oil and gas would not save Ukraine. They would have stolen it with renewed energy.
    3. SHILO
      SHILO 23 August 2013 11: 37 New
      11
      If the leadership of GOVNO, oil does not help gas.
      1. eplewke
        eplewke 23 August 2013 12: 14 New
        +2
        Step into the EU, and Ukraine’s economy is definitely a corpse!
    4. xan
      xan 23 August 2013 12: 23 New
      +3
      Quote: Hauptmann Emil
      Ours would also prosrai (although some have tried / are trying very hard), the country would be economically if there were no oil and gas.

      in the 90s Russia had both oil and gas
      and what helped?
      1. Hauptmann emil
        Hauptmann emil 23 August 2013 13: 22 New
        +3
        In the 90s, EBN had prolonged euphoria from the power that had befallen him. It turned out that he could not only dispose of it. Ukraine has the same thing, only longer.
      2. RDS-1
        RDS-1 25 August 2013 16: 40 New
        0
        Quote: xan
        in the 90s Russia had both oil and gas
        and what helped?

        It helped. Only not in the 90s, but a little later.
  3. domokl
    domokl 23 August 2013 08: 08 New
    +4
    The revolution, about which the Bolsheviks spoke so long and stubbornly, happened! Hurray comrades! .. V.I. Lenin, speech at the Congress of Soviets
  4. Xroft
    Xroft 23 August 2013 08: 10 New
    15
    People, though not much familiar with the Russian economy, know that 31% (!) Of the entire product that is exported for oil and gas. Not long ago there was an article about the modern economies of the world, Russia was in 5th place. No need to belittle our country and roll it to the level of a * sandy * principality (all known) the size of the Kaliningrad region.
    1. Narkom
      Narkom 23 August 2013 08: 51 New
      +6
      Norway has over 50% and what's next?
    2. Orik
      Orik 23 August 2013 09: 05 New
      -12
      Stupidity is enough to write.
      Fuel dominates in Russia's export structure. In 2012, its share amounted to 70% (hereinafter, taking into account Vlanta adjustments), remaining at a record high level of the previous year. In the early 2000s. The share of fuel in Russian exports was approximately 55%, and over the past 5 years it has not dropped below 66%. The second place in Russian exports is traditionally occupied by metal products. In 2012, its share was 8,6% - this is the absolute minimum in the recent history of Russia (in the mid-2000s, metal products accounted for 15% of exports). Moreover, the value of metal exports in value terms in 2012 (more than $ 45 billion) was the fourth in history after the figures for 2007, 2006 and 2011. The third place in Russian exports belongs to chemical goods. Their specific gravity in 2012 was 6,1%, which corresponds to the typical level of recent years. The value of exported chemicals in 2012 (more than $ 32 billion) was slightly lower than the record level of the previous year.
      1. Xroft
        Xroft 23 August 2013 09: 46 New
        +9
        Really enough
        Now let's see how the Russian GDP is created. Taxes - 25,1%, trade - 16,2% finance and services - 14,0%, manufacturing - 13,6%, mining - 9,1% (oil and gas - 6,8%), transport and communications - 7,5%, education and healthcare - 5,7%, construction - 5,5%, state administration and military security - 5,0%, agriculture - 3,6%, production and distribution of electricity, gas and water - 3,2%. In other words, contrary to myth, manufacturing dominates mining, creating 1,5 times more GDP. At the same time, despite the fact that oil prices rose from $ 2003 to $ 2011 per barrel from 31 to 97, the share of oil and gas decreased from 8,8% to 6,8%.
        1. Orik
          Orik 23 August 2013 12: 16 New
          -5
          First you write about export, now you give figures for GDP, this is a comparison of a snake and a hedgehog. "Smart ass". wink
          1. Xroft
            Xroft 23 August 2013 17: 52 New
            +1
            The same article is written about export. Fuel and economic resources, chemistry (metal, precious metal, etc.) are in no way related to Gas and Oil in pure form, fuel is processed material by our factories and produced by our companies (like metal and others), all this together gives 70%. Net Export relies primarily on GDP.
      2. agbykov
        agbykov 23 August 2013 11: 36 New
        0
        GDP is not export.
    3. nick7680
      nick7680 23 August 2013 13: 49 New
      +4
      Not long ago there was an article about the modern economies of the world, Russia was in 5th place.

      Russia is on the 5th largest economy
    4. zmey_gadukin
      zmey_gadukin 24 August 2013 15: 29 New
      0
      Quote: Xroft
      oil and gas exports account for 31% (!).

      give an example of what makes up the remaining 70%, otherwise you’re just a balobok ...
  5. alexng
    alexng 23 August 2013 08: 11 New
    13
    Save Ukraine will not succeed. Although the patient himself knows about his illness, he nevertheless eats food that exacerbates this disease. Type "I do not want to live." In short, he will correct the hunchback grave. Apparently, in order to understand how she should be further, she needs clinical death.
    1. My address
      My address 23 August 2013 08: 38 New
      14
      After that, reunite the Crimea, Novorossia, Little Russia (it will have to fork out for it). And zapadentsy hi nezalezhno live and graze.
    2. SHILO
      SHILO 23 August 2013 11: 50 New
      +6
      She has already happened. The point is small - it remains to decompose! fellow
    3. tomas.09
      tomas.09 23 August 2013 13: 38 New
      +1
      What is all the fuss about Ukraine? This territory does not want to live wisely, so let it die !!! They shouted in the 90s that they had everything in full, so let them figure it out themselves. They enter the EU, produce go.mikov, etc. Us army and roses to fall asleep !!!
  6. Xroft
    Xroft 23 August 2013 08: 18 New
    +9
    And the situation in Ukraine is what they tried to impose on us under the EBN, and what Western * partners * want to see as a typical example of liberal politics and when oligarchs come to power. We took a different path and I see only pluses so far, development is slow, too much Much interferes, but Eurasian integration is a reserve for the future. The question is what will happen after Putin leaves, who will come to power? The heir is not yet visible ..... but you need a person even more rigid and reactionary who will be able to completely cleanse the government from merging with the business oligarchy and carry out a real cleansing of corruption.
  7. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 23 August 2013 08: 28 New
    21
    Ukraine and independence, this is not compatible ... no way request
    1. Narkom
      Narkom 23 August 2013 08: 54 New
      20
      A dream more prosaic ...
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 23 August 2013 09: 01 New
        +5
        Quote: Narkom
        A dream more prosaic ...

        Shaw for a masterpiece laughing
        1. MG42
          MG42 23 August 2013 15: 42 New
          +6
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Shaw for a masterpiece

          Here is this greasy book laughing
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 23 August 2013 13: 36 New
      +7
      Quote: Valery Neon
      Ukraine and independence, this is not compatible ... no way


      Because politicians ... laughing
  8. Gecko
    Gecko 23 August 2013 08: 49 New
    +3
    But the oligarchs have a goal in Ukraine to cut down a quick pile of dough, and legalize this dough by joining the EU so that they can spend it calmly later, there will be enough earned (stolen) money for their life, and there’s at least a flood.
  9. Xmypp
    Xmypp 23 August 2013 09: 01 New
    -14
    Nothing about the article. And so it is clear that in order for industry to work in Ukraine, resources from Russia are needed. So it was during the USSR. who ruined the USSR thought little of it, they were worried about it.
    In Ukraine, almost everything has collapsed, moreover, as in Russia. Fortunately, we have oil and gas, the rest is left.
    There is one huge plus in Ukraine, there are no Azeris and chocks.
    1. z-exit
      z-exit 23 August 2013 11: 06 New
      +8
      Quote: Xmypp
      There is one huge plus in Ukraine, there are no Azeris and chocks.


      Not quite so, because there are many Tatars, whole villages, and, perhaps, now they live in the Crimea as districts. Who faced the Crimean Tatars knows what kind of contingent. Suffice it to say, especially today.
      Although our Russian chocks are in large numbers, they are normal, so to speak, relatively peaceful. And these Ukrainian ones are becoming more and more problematic over the years. Falls to radicalization. They are there openly funded from abroad, and as a result, many militants from Ukraine have been recruited to fight in Syria against the Assad government.
      Our Chechens in this regard today (I emphasize "today") are better: I support Kadyrov, and Kadyrov, as many do not criticize, has a huge plus - he and his father are a loyal supporter of traditional Islam, which is very important for maintaining peace in the Caucasus.
    2. Yeraz
      Yeraz 23 August 2013 11: 22 New
      +4
      Quote: Xmypp
      There is one huge plus in Ukraine, there are no Azeris and chocks.

      Administrators violate site rules.
    3. SHILO
      SHILO 23 August 2013 11: 56 New
      +6
      That's right! No economy - no Caucasian people!
    4. smersh70
      smersh70 23 August 2013 13: 56 New
      +4
      Quote: Xmypp
      There is one huge plus in Ukraine, there are no Azeris and chocks.



      there is our huge diaspora))))) I was mistaken, my friend laughing and even 2 deputies to BP ..)))

      By the way .. and we also destroyed Ukraine ... fellow
      1. alone
        alone 23 August 2013 14: 00 New
        +3
        belay a little bit, oblique !!
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 23 August 2013 15: 55 New
        +2
        Quote: smersh70
        and we also destroyed Ukraine

        This is from what budun ??? In Ukraine, one destroyer and this is Russia laughing
      3. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 24 August 2013 15: 33 New
        0
        Quote: smersh70
        there is our huge diaspora))))

        that's for sure
        + your eternal "friends" Armenians ...
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 24 August 2013 22: 19 New
          0
          Quote: zmey_gadukin
          that's for sure




          what's wrong with that winked let’s know how many Ukrainian cities we liberated ... plus how much they studied in Kharkov .. whether they’re aviation ... or the Polytechnic is still quoted everywhere !!!!!!!! many remained and serve the good of Ukraine! and after us Russians, the big Ukrainian diaspora !!!!!!!!! what's wrong ... Mi does not mind ..... fellow
    5. Allegedly
      Allegedly 23 August 2013 14: 05 New
      +4
      Quote: Xmypp
      a huge plus in Ukraine, there are no Azeris and chocks


      Eee ala ty shchto? Why do you need to ascend? Do you know what there is chock? Chock is nizy dusted derevo.
      1. michajlo
        michajlo 23 August 2013 17: 18 New
        +2
        JACOB DE Today, 14:05
        Good afternoon, dear Otto!
        I have to answer you to your STRANGE attempt to joke on national topics! fool

        Public calling of representatives of another nationality “unpleasant nicknames”, regardless of whether you intended to MARTLE or humor, is that the wrong form is not the best form of “self-manifestation”.

        I personally would try to understand the MYSTERY of the author of the note ABOUT MYSELF if he takes his nickname in quotes, but I DO NOT APPROVE your escapade!

        To you personally dear Otto I would really like it if you were treated here with nicknames like "dumb * hooray", "folks * oych", etc. ?? sad

        In my humble opinion, most members of the forum are looking for something that unites us all, and does not incite interethnic ROSEN!

        Regards, Mikhailo (Slovakia).
    6. MG42
      MG42 23 August 2013 15: 48 New
      +4
      Quote: Xmypp
      There is one huge plus in Ukraine, there are no Azeris and chocks there

      Go to the Ukrainian clothing market, you will see entire shopping malls of Chinese, Negroes, residents from the Caucasus and Uzbeks are ..
      here is a photo from the grocery this is Vietnamese >>
      This is Kharkov
      And Ukrainians ride cars for them there, I’ll find a photo = lay out how some slaves work for Vietnamese and Chinese ..

      1. smersh70
        smersh70 24 August 2013 22: 22 New
        0
        Quote: MG42
        And Ukrainians ride cars for them there, I’ll find a photo = lay out how some slaves work for Vietnamese and Chinese ..



        WOULD BE SMART, YOU WOULD OPEN THE BUSINESS YOURSELF !!! and why, like slaves, you earn your hard-earned money by hard work .. how do you know, maybe they will get rich tomorrow and many will work for them \ !!! many millionaires started this way ... you face titular nationality - so immediately it should be a sheikh! there is no such thing))) by the way, there is one country in the UAE ... well, that’s it, local people don’t work ... smile Well, we are far from them ... smile
  10. 128mgb
    128mgb 23 August 2013 09: 32 New
    +2
    [/ quote] Officially consider 8%. But farmers who need work are not included here. They somehow feed on household plots, but they do not have money for other needs, including social and cultural ones. Widespread underemployment should also be considered. From 5 to 7 million people working abroad can be added to unsecured jobs. In total, more than 23% of the economically active population are not provided with work. [/ quote]
    Yes, I think in rural areas there will be a lot more. In villages, they mainly live (survive) due to various kinds of allowances and pensions. But they will raise the price of gas and that's it, family budgets will collapse. Not every year winter is warm as the past.
  11. washi
    washi 23 August 2013 09: 37 New
    +8
    Again pull the outskirts of the population of Russia? For some reason, no desire. We will stretch and again we will be invaders, destroying national dignity and culture.
    Maybe let them go to the EU. They will understand that they have lost who is to blame and will finally begin to describe the real story in their textbooks. It is only smart learn from the mistakes of others. Let them learn from their own.
    And at this time we will be tightening our economy and the standard of living of our people.
    1. NUT
      NUT 23 August 2013 11: 21 New
      +6
      Quote: Vasya
      Again pull the outskirts of the population of Russia?

      The south and east of Ukraine are primarily people - they are Russian People, engineers, craftsmen and hard workers, and this is in their souls, in blood, at the genetic level. They feed it, those with whom we do not drink - (like the Russia Caucasus) Kiev and the west of Ukraine. So, what is needed here is not to be pulled, but the possible costs will be paid off very soon and with interest
  12. serioga
    serioga 23 August 2013 09: 39 New
    +5
    Quote: My address
    After that, reunite the Crimea, Novorossia, Little Russia (it will have to fork out for it). And zapadentsy hi nezalezhno live and graze.

    I completely agree! It’s time for Russia to deal with Crimea and Little Russia for a long time
  13. Raptor75
    Raptor75 23 August 2013 09: 53 New
    +2
    It seems to me alone that the number of articles about Ukraine is starting to go through the roof? And one negative. Ukraine is heading into the abyss, it is doomed, it can no longer be saved ... What is it to us? They made their choice, let them disentangle themselves. No need to be bigger Ukrainians than they are. We’ll solve our problems first, only then will we take care of strangers.
    1. z-exit
      z-exit 23 August 2013 11: 35 New
      +3
      Quote: Raptor75
      They made their choice, let them disentangle themselves

      On the one hand, yes, remember, there is a wonderful saying in this regard - you won’t be forcibly sweet. But there is a “but” in which the whole catch is actually. There is a moment that justifies Russia's desire to help Ukraine, unties its hands on the moral and ethical side of the issue and does not allow us, the Russians, to be indifferent observers. Here above a similar thought sounded from Comrade NUT. The problem of Ukraine today is that it is very strange geographically outlined. As in that legend about the two halves that were once one, but from which they were divided by the gods, but did not lose the desire to reunite. So, I continue the thought, Ukraine in the current territorial outlines is not entirely convenient for the citizens of Ukraine. Since part of its territory and part of its population are in many ways, not only genetic and historical, but, for example, purely economic, it is seeking Russia, and Russia, in turn, is striving for them.
      1. Raptor75
        Raptor75 23 August 2013 18: 18 New
        +2
        The leadership of Ukraine does not want to see the bad experience of countries that are already members of the EU. Some kind of manic desire to be there. Lose the whole industry, become a country - a rogue? What are you? We are Ukraine! This will not happen to us!
        Other people's mistakes do not teach them. They will be to blame for their problems, which do not allow independent Ukraine to dig their own grave. Sometimes it’s better to let go of the stupid and self-confident child on all 4 sides, let him fill himself with cones, understand who is who. Then we'll talk.
        For most Russians, Ukraine has long had a cut chunk.
    2. SHILO
      SHILO 23 August 2013 12: 03 New
      +6
      We’ll solve our problems first, only then will we take care of strangers.


      These very problems began in 91 with the filing of 3's assholes.

      And by the way, minus you.
      1. SHILO
        SHILO 23 August 2013 12: 13 New
        +3
        To the question of your problems!
        1. Raptor75
          Raptor75 23 August 2013 18: 42 New
          +1
          You are the first who put me minus and justified.))))) Thank you.))))))
          As for the demotivator ... NATO without the USA is a bunch of impotent people. Amers now begin to have big problems within the country, with public debt, etc. Not until the deployment of missile defense soon it will be. I’m calm for Ukraine; it won’t be able to get involved anywhere.
          We need 10-15 years of a quiet life in order to regain its former power. Stolypin’s words would now be in the subject. I want us to focus on internal problems without getting involved anywhere, acting cynically and prudently.
          You won’t believe it, but I treat Ukraine very warmly, I have relatives there. There is simply no place for emotions in politics.
          1. SHILO
            SHILO 23 August 2013 19: 16 New
            +1
            Raptor75
            NATO without the USA is a bunch of impotent people.


            You do not understand my demik.
            NATO is actually the United States. 10-15 years of quiet life and rockets will stand near Moscow.
            1. Raptor75
              Raptor75 23 August 2013 19: 51 New
              0
              Quote: SHILO
              NATO is actually the United States

              Here you are right
              Quote: SHILO
              10-15 years of a quiet life and rockets will stand near Moscow.

              I do not see any prerequisites for this.
              1. SHILO
                SHILO 23 August 2013 20: 23 New
                +2
                I explain - in the upper left corner is a map of the USSR and the Warsaw Pact, but now the situation is in the general background! Yellow Ukryna and Gruzinus! And now we count the time of arrival! If bases in these countries have happened, but this is coming! Yes, no C-400 will help! For what reason did they cut the Pioneer? And he was cut under the condition of eliminating the Trident from Germany.
                1. Raptor75
                  Raptor75 23 August 2013 20: 47 New
                  0
                  Quote: SHILO
                  Kaby in Entih countries
                  Bases have happened, but this is coming!

                  Purely speculative - anything is possible. In reality, this is from the realm of fantasy. The US is smart enough not to challenge us like that. Times are not the same.
                  1. SHILO
                    SHILO 23 August 2013 20: 54 New
                    +2
                    If you behave like a "patient", then any fantasy can become a reality.
                    1. Raptor75
                      Raptor75 23 August 2013 21: 24 New
                      +2
                      We were terps in the 90s. At the moment, our foreign policy is quite adequate. Compared to the same 90s. Sometimes thoughts appear - are we wiser or our enemies stupid ...
                      We will collect fragments of our country, which was called the USSR. Everything will return to square one.
                      1. SHILO
                        SHILO 23 August 2013 21: 42 New
                        0
                        Raptor75
                        We will collect fragments of our country, which was called the USSR. Everything will return to square one.


                        And FOR THESE REASONS, A DISPUTE HAPPENED! Don't you find? Are we back to the source? request
                      2. Raptor75
                        Raptor75 23 August 2013 22: 21 New
                        +2
                        The collection of fragments, IMHO, will take more than one generation. There is no need to rush, no one is going anywhere from us. Sobsno and such thoughts about Ukraine and in general ...
                        Konstantin, it was nice to talk, articles about Ukraine will be full. intersect.
                      3. SHILO
                        SHILO 23 August 2013 23: 05 New
                        +1
                        Yes, it will be completely. It’s a pity that I didn’t say the main thing! But as you rightly noted, there will be plenty of articles! good
              2. SHILO
                SHILO 23 August 2013 21: 13 New
                +2
                And you need to remember this!
      2. Egoza
        23 August 2013 19: 26 New
        0
        Quote: Raptor75
        We need 10-15 years of a quiet life in order to regain its former power.

        This is with the general theft of the top and corruption in all ranks of the government, in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, in the remnants of the army, in the SBU ...? I doubt, however, that it is possible to regain its former power under the current system!
        1. SHILO
          SHILO 23 August 2013 19: 36 New
          0
          Egoza
          He’s about Russia! yes
        2. Raptor75
          Raptor75 23 August 2013 19: 43 New
          +1
          I actually mean Russia ...
        3. SHILO
          SHILO 24 August 2013 01: 34 New
          0
          I don’t understand one?

          Who is your plus?

          You really screwed up! What is a spare profile?

          Do we want to look beautiful?

          No ladies on the forum - on the forum there are soldiers in the army!

          And the attitude towards them is soldier.

          Do not go minus mine.
  • JIaIIoTb
    JIaIIoTb 23 August 2013 10: 06 New
    +3
    The topic can be closed in spite of its relevance. Now it is useless to say anything on this topic, it will not reach the addressee.
    I think a year later, when the first ones appear: “E mine! Well, what have I done then? !!”, then it will be possible to speak already, but not about the neighbor’s mistakes, but about what he should do to correct them, and without any trade from his (neighbor's) side.

    Sincerely.
    1. avt
      avt 23 August 2013 10: 38 New
      +6
      Quote: JIaIIoTb
      The topic can be closed in spite of its relevance. Now it is useless to say anything on this topic, it will not reach the addressee.

      GDP closes it, with a customs warning racket, expansion of the port economy of the Azov Black Sea basin, South Stream, and again Rogozin jeered about An-124, so Yanukovych and the company were completely warned in the form of concrete, material sensations. Ukraine’s being "dragged" in the Customs Union is no longer relevant, everything is being prepared for work in the conditions of signing an agreement with the EU by Ukrainians, which is purely concrete, they have warned me fraternally. laughing But, as always, those who were independent did not believe, as in the Nord Stream, they puffed out their cheeks and lived according to the precepts of the son of the comrade Bender, the Teretsk tribunal - ,, Abroad will help us " laughing Well, get used to the fact that Russian abroad will no longer help and will become a very real foreign country. In the current economic realities, Bolivar can’t stand two, and whoever remains, guess for yourself.
      1. NUT
        NUT 23 August 2013 11: 35 New
        +7
        Quote: avt
        so they warned in the form of concrete, tangible sensations of Yanukovych and company
        and he realized that Ukraine should bow in a low bow to the West, how Russia would immediately settle in behind with "not decent intentions"
        1. avt
          avt 23 August 2013 13: 22 New
          +3
          Quote: NUT
          and he realized that Ukraine should bow in a low bow to the West, how Russia would immediately settle in behind with "not decent intentions"

          Notice, I didn’t start this. laughing Well, so long as you are afraid of the GDP from Russia, Ukraine, quite in the spirit of new gay trends and laws, the EU will have a march under Mendelzon’s march, and in especially perverted forms.
          1. NUT
            NUT 23 August 2013 15: 24 New
            +4
            This Jewish Union is now not particularly interested in Ukraine, it would be necessary for it to figure out with its No. 0 people who is coming. But from the east, a real chance to get the most tonsils love
  • chehywed
    chehywed 23 August 2013 10: 23 New
    +4
    Ukraine suffered two economic crises: 90's and 2008-2009. Since 2012, a third crisis has unfolded.

    And here is a quote from warandpeace.ru
    The results of the comparative analysis indicate that during 2001 — 2004. Ukraine’s GDP growth rates were higher than the average for the CIS countries, but already since 2005 this indicator has decreased. Among the CIS countries, lower than in Ukraine, the pace in 2005 — 2008. Only the economy of Kyrgyzstan developed.
    It turns out another, Orange Crisis.
  • saag
    saag 23 August 2013 10: 26 New
    +5
    Quote: Raptor75
    Ukraine is heading into the abyss, it is doomed, it can no longer be saved ... What is the matter for us?

    Consider the result of a possible threat from the point of view of the security of the Russian Federation, such as the deployment of missile defense structures, or some kind of bio-laboratory in Georgia, or some other kind of business, or will it not concern anyone specifically yet? It is necessary to warn such things in advance, which in my opinion is trying to make GDP. The value of the neighboring country is primarily considered from a military point of view, and only then economic, etc.
    1. Raptor75
      Raptor75 23 August 2013 20: 56 New
      -1
      IMHO, the danger from NATO and the United States for us is decreasing. Europe is simply degrading before our eyes, the United States is becoming increasingly immersed in its problems. Now they cannot even spoil us humanly, all their attempts cause some kind of squeamish perplexity.
  • Jet blackbird
    Jet blackbird 23 August 2013 10: 41 New
    +3
    The Ukrainian "capitalists" (oligarchs, officials, big-bellied policemen, serious crime and the rest of the customs and tax shushara ...) keep the lave exclusively in Western banks. The enterprises they own have Western jurisdiction ... that is. totally dependent on the West. Here is the answer to “all questions”)) And of course, all these “managers” consider the state of Ukraine as a “donor” to replenish their selfish interests - this is a system that has received a “blessing” from the outside ... and it’s already 22 of the year . An approximate situation in Russia is also possible, adjusted for "greatness and historical heritage."
    1. Jet blackbird
      Jet blackbird 23 August 2013 12: 45 New
      +5
      ..What the Ukrainian "capitalists" will not take away the stolen and earned by "honest corruption labor))) but the Russian" capitalists ", if Ukraine ends up in the TS, will be" taken away ")), it is such a" thought "that prevails on the Internet and the media ....
      1. xan
        xan 23 August 2013 14: 03 New
        +3
        Quote: Jet blackbird
        but the Russian "capitalists", if Ukraine is in the vehicle - "they will take away the mustache")

        do the right thing
        for the elite U in the EU is better than in the TS
        the elite think about themselves
        simple Ukrainian is important
  • avt
    avt 23 August 2013 10: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: saag
    Consider the result of a possible threat from the point of view of the security of the Russian Federation, such as the deployment of missile defense structures, or some kind of bio-laboratory in Georgia, or some other kind of business, or will it not concern anyone specifically yet?

    It is certainly true, but in a specific case, and not only with Ukraine, issues are resolved with more equal partners in negotiations, real participants in the process, and not with its facilities, such as the Baltic countries, Bulgaria, etc. So, in the first place, negotiations are ongoing with the creators of the threat.
    1. mogus
      mogus 23 August 2013 11: 36 New
      +1
      So they agreed with the United States on the non-proliferation of NATO to the east ...
      With recent bans, they showed them a little future, they can "comb themselves" ...
      1. avt
        avt 23 August 2013 12: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: mogus
        So they agreed with the United States on the non-proliferation of NATO to the east ...

        ??????? Gorbachev, Shevarnadze ??? Or EBN with Kozyrev ???
        1. mogus
          mogus 23 August 2013 12: 30 New
          +3
          So, in the first place, negotiations are ongoing with the creators of the threat.
          Threat - NATO; The creator is USA, right? We’ll lose Ukraine, NATO and will hide in it ...
          And what surnames in the present will agree on non-proliferation, in the future it will not matter. There simply should not be room for further NATO advancement, but they don’t care about the treaties.
  • Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 23 August 2013 10: 46 New
    0
    So why do we need Ukraine in the TS if everything is so bad there? Can you tell me the benefits of Russia, only please purely on the economy.
  • mirag2
    mirag2 23 August 2013 10: 50 New
    0
    Yes, but Russia is to blame for the Holodomor, as if in our Volga region then almost the entire population died out ...
  • saag
    saag 23 August 2013 11: 09 New
    +3
    Quote: Anatole Klim
    So why do we need Ukraine in the TS if everything is so bad there? Can you tell me the benefits of Russia, only please purely on the economy

    cheap metal products. pipes there and so on, cooperation with enterprises of the aviation industry, space, atomic mash, agricultural production ...
    Quote: avt
    So, first of all, negotiations are ongoing with the creators of the threat

    negotiations were held with them and NATO continued to expand eastward, what kind of negotiations can there be? About what?
  • sop.ov
    sop.ov 23 August 2013 11: 30 New
    0
    Damn tired of the Ukrainian theme. Today, after the North Caucasus, a new horror story called “Urkaina” has been invented for the Russians. Soon, the site will be renamed "Urkainskoe oborzenie". I would like to return review articles about weapons and aircraft.
  • avt
    avt 23 August 2013 11: 31 New
    +1
    Quote: saag
    negotiations were held with them and NATO continued to expand eastward, what kind of negotiations can there be? About what?

    It is when ? At EBN with Kozyrev at the Foreign Ministry? You don’t confuse God's gift with scrambled eggs, just look at the dynamics regarding the deployment of missile defense. Only when Russia was considered worthy of negotiations did they begin to listen to its opinion. Well, who and when from the former allied, and now independent, will be able to reach this level?
  • saag
    saag 23 August 2013 11: 37 New
    +1
    Quote: avt
    Only when Russia began to be considered worthy of negotiations - did they begin to listen to its opinion

    After Obama, most likely the Republicans will come to power again, should I recall how the situation with missile defense developed under Republican Bush Jr.?
    1. avt
      avt 23 August 2013 12: 05 New
      +4
      Quote: saag
      After Obama, most likely the Republicans will come to power again, should I recall how the situation with missile defense developed under Republican Bush Jr.?

      From a change in terms of terms - the amount does not change. The foreign policy of the United States of America has never been independent of the “election” of the president and his party affiliation.
  • master_rem
    master_rem 23 August 2013 11: 40 New
    +1
    Suki .. I say, looking towards the sunset ..
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 23 August 2013 12: 33 New
    +2
    Talking about the economy no one in the Ukrainian government is interested in, their possible solution (on rapprochement with the EU) does not depend on this. Therefore, the GDP did not begin to speak with them on their last visit.

    Quote: Hauptmann Emil
    Ours would also prosrai (although some have tried / are trying very hard), the country would be economically if there were no oil and gas.

    I almost agree. Only a small nuance, oil and gas, too, almost pulled away. GDP returned them under the influence of the state.
  • sq
    sq 23 August 2013 12: 47 New
    +1
    Judging by the article, the situation in Ukraine is very similar to the situation in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the end of the 18th century: an impotent government, small-town tycoons-oligarchs who do not care about everything except dough, and for .... any people who are becoming one , well, even "prophets in their own country" trying to fix something. Well, as for the absorption section, everything is clear in the future too.
    1. SHILO
      SHILO 23 August 2013 13: 11 New
      0
      except dough, and for .... any people,


      And you, my friend, a boor, however! negative

      My minus to you!
      1. michajlo
        michajlo 23 August 2013 17: 43 New
        +2
        SHILO UA Today, 13:11
        except dough, and for .... any people,
        And you, my friend, a boor, however! negative
        My minus to you!


        Good afternoon, dear Konstantin!
        Let me disagree with you. The unpleasantly sounding definition "for ***** any people", in my opinion, the author himself used as a CONSTATION of the REAL CONDITION of the Ukrainian people for 22 years of INDEPENDENCE, without any intent to taunt ordinary taxpayers of Ukraine.

        P.S. For you personally, for your desire to become a breast in defense of the Ukrainian people, I put a plus.

        Sincerely, Mikhailo.
  • crambol
    crambol 23 August 2013 13: 22 New
    +5
    The final transformation of Ukraine into an impoverished raw material semi-colony of the EU with an endangered and dispersing population, as well as a decline in culture, education and, accordingly, language, not to mention science.

    Ukraine is a failed state


    And all from the pathological hatred fed by the West to everything connected with Russia!
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 23 August 2013 13: 24 New
    +2
    The EU will not allow Ukraine to "die", they will support life in it exactly as much as they need, strong they don’t need, the main thing is that they have enough strength, that they will give them and the strength to compost the brain of Russia) in such a position is reclining the country will stretch out with Euroclism for quite some time, here it is naught, the main thing is not with the savages and drunkards who all move their paws trying to rise)) and it’s funny and sinful, I write, but the soul still hurts for all this and for all of us, but nothing it’s obvious that it’s impossible to do it, both Russia and Ukraine, as Ukraine, have the right to go their own way. For 22 years, these were no sharp movements towards Ukraine, Russia made compromises and concessions in the hope of common sense of Ukrainian politicians, and only heard conversations that we near-brotherly countries, when it’s necessary to get something from Russia and we gave it, but in the end Ukraine turned back to us .... it’s really time for Russia to be much harder and do what is beneficial for us, obviously it won’t be any worse, 22 years firm brotherhood-brotherhood-sconce being, and it’s not sweeter, it’s time to turn on pragmatism and act in their own interests. And if you start, you can’t cut the back one in any way, we’ll break through.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 23 August 2013 13: 37 New
    0
    Well, if Ukraine and the EU all go according to the optimistic scenario, when the EU will support life in Ukraine exactly as much as they need without allowing them to raise their heads, and if everything goes wrong and after 10-15 years the spouses will want to disperse , what will get or what will be left to some twenty EU wife in a divorce? If we take into account that Ukraine didn’t lose property during a divorce from the USSR, what will happen then? The world is unpredictable and this option is no exception. It’s good if Russia grows stronger during this time and can pull Ukraine out for the first time (and where can we go, we won’t be indifferent) and if Russia does not get strong enough? Then we will reap the fruits of this decision of Ukraine with the association. But I believe and hope for the best, we will still fight.
  • ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 23 August 2013 13: 40 New
    +2
    Russophobia is now very fashionable in the world, and Ukraine follows fashion trends and not only it.
  • nick7680
    nick7680 23 August 2013 13: 52 New
    -6
    and what is the use of joining the vehicle? TS saved Belarus from inflation and the fall of the "bunny"? Or is Belarus happy with the vehicle now? And Kazakhstan is not very happy with this union.
    It’s clear that this is a political choice - but politically, the EU is much ahead of the old CU with their “eternal” steering, corruption, bureaucratic overshot, etc.
    1. michajlo
      michajlo 23 August 2013 18: 00 New
      +4
      nick7680 UA Today, 13:52
      --------------------
      saag KZ Today, 14:09 Quote: nick7680
      but politically, the EU is much ahead of the old TS

      “It’s good where we are not” (C) Are you probably talking about juvenile justice, the promotion of gay marriage, the ban on hanging national flags, Christmas trees so as not to infringe on the views of others?


      Good afternoon, dear Nikolai!
      Let me disagree with you, because you judge the EU only to the beautiful Brussels fairy tales "about the rivers of milk and jelly banks" in a united Europe.
      Here in the EU in young members (former Socialist Countries and specifically in Slovakia, where I have long lived), few people admire Brussels! And increasingly, it’s not only the older generation but also the youth, comparing living conditions during the times of the Department of Internal Affairs / Org.Varsh. Dog. and in the EU, in the absence of a DICTATIVE from Moscow to Prague about how many and which farms, beet-processing enterprises and much more ex-Czechoslovakia was ALLOWED TO HAVE !?

      Now Prague and Bratislava can only afford that will NOT create competition for a German farmer and manufacturer !!!

      Such is the harsh truth about the benefits of membership in a modern, democratic Europe I speak from myself, a resident of Slovakia (citizenship_Ukraine), do not repeat the alien or paid agitation.
      Do not believe your western friends with a beautiful smile! They will deceive and strip the Ukrainian people, just like the "remodelers and accelerators" in 19858-1991.

      Sincerely, Mikhailo.
  • Makarov
    Makarov 23 August 2013 13: 53 New
    0
    sorry without links, but something like that is ...
  • saag
    saag 23 August 2013 14: 09 New
    +4
    Quote: nick7680
    but politically, the EU is much ahead of the old TS

    “It’s good where we are not” (C) Are you probably talking about juvenile justice, the promotion of gay marriage, the ban on hanging national flags, Christmas trees so as not to infringe on the views of others?
  • Egoza
    23 August 2013 14: 11 New
    +4
    Tomorrow, August 24, Ukraine celebrates Independence Day! (Probably independence from a good life in the Ukrainian SSR) What we celebrate is the result of "achievements" - see the above article.
    I think that Ukraine needs to be written, because if you do come in association with the EU and quickly place some bases or experimental military institutes in your home, you need to know where it came from and what it came to. If the Communists manage to collect 4 million signatures for a referendum on the CU, and if more, then the requirement for the Rada and the President to join the CU will be a completely different caliber. Finally, the situation in connection with robberies by the police and all kinds of incidents can completely get out of control, and then they will take up not forks, but for machine guns. It’s just that the people of Russia need to know what’s happening at hand, what to expect.
    By the way, a good article is "US Militarized Biolaboratory in Ukraine": the first public protests.
    Kharkov and Kharkov region should not turn into a testing ground for testing pathogenic microbes
    http://2000.net.ua/2000/derzhava/u-cherty/92962
    Perhaps later it will be placed on VO, but if not, see for yourself. Very instructive!
    1. SHILO
      SHILO 23 August 2013 19: 02 New
      0
      Signatures already collected! And where is the referendum?
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 23 August 2013 14: 21 New
    +4
    Quote: nick7680
    and what is the use of joining the vehicle? TS saved Belarus from inflation and the fall of the "bunny"? Or is Belarus happy with the vehicle now? And Kazakhstan is not very happy with this union.
    It’s clear that this is a political choice - but politically, the EU is much ahead of the old CU with their “eternal” steering, corruption, bureaucratic overshot, etc.


    But in Ukraine they want everything to be laid out immediately and more and for free for them?) But does the EU have any problems? Greece barely stuck her head out of .op and in many other EU member states the crisis and the situation is no better, some Germans are pulling everyone, but they are not iron, and even Ukraine will be on the verge of stamping. So what is your thinking in Ukraine? Want to be taken out and laid down? Looking for a bigger feeder and go there? No one denies the problems of the CU, but it’s not worth exaggerating for the worse, everything is just beginning, no one said it would be easy. And with this approach and attitude, the Ukrainians, it seems to me, should forget about a strong Ukraine, and Great and even more so, how it’s not sad. You are not lucky with the leaders and other politicians, the working people have inspired the hell knows that we see the result of 22 years of independence, your elite always wanted to rule by itself, and now it has received the reins with sufficient base both industrial and territorial and a population sufficient and that in the end, almost everything was destroyed, in a word, your kings, and now they have found someone to moor. The story repeats ... I remember a few centuries ago Ukraine was already rushing between Russia, Europe and Turkey, if I remember correctly, and then you are lucky, that Ukraine nevertheless ended up with Russia, not everything was smooth for all of us, but nevertheless we created a strong and powerful state, because we strove and worked together, and after its disintegration Ukraine ceased to e is not enough, but because there was a will, and now you have powerless kings again in power: Kravchuk, Kuchma, Yushchenko, Yanukovych ... incapable of strong decisions and the result we see. We were not lucky in the beginning after the collapse: Gorbachev Yeltsin ... but then again the story repeats and a strong leader appears, Putin, and he is not perfect, but still several goals taller than your kings and Russia began to move and climb up from the pit into which he fell, despite that prevent it from doing both external as internal forces sponsored by the West.
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 23 August 2013 14: 34 New
    +1
    Look at Ukraine is what will happen to Russia when we run out of oil and gas.
  • Max otto
    Max otto 23 August 2013 14: 48 New
    +5
    Here many people write that it is necessary to let Ukraine make a mistake, let them enter there somewhere, then they will come. It will not happen. When Ukraine reaches the bottom, Russia will become even more guilty, simply because there is a saying: don’t live richly - don’t angry your neighbors, a lot of accusations will come that they were taxed at the border, they don’t want to take goods, they raised the gas price again, transit it but bypassing Ukraine launched, reptiles shorter. Hatred of Russia will increase at times. But Russia really does not behave correctly, it’s impossible, it is more difficult for a Ukrainian to obtain Russian citizenship than Tajiks say, is that really right? Yes, citizenship must be distributed there to everyone, especially in the Crimea. And to influence through the same oligarchs and large enterprises oriented towards Russia. Do not negotiate through the government (trust him - do not respect yourself) but with the owners, there is no owner? Find and plant your own, just do not squeeze out how Russian businessmen like to do, namely, honestly restore. With the same "Roshen" it was necessary to quietly decide through the FSB - tovarisch, if you want to continue to carry your goods to Russia, be kind, you don’t talk rubbish on your TV channel, but rather show some comedies if your gut shows Russia in a positive way. What? No channel? So buy, you fucking oligarch! Moreover, it is desirable to conduct a conversation in such a way that it would not be profitable to refuse.
    In the meantime, I see that Russia really spat on Ukraine, and has not been climbing there for a very long time, allowing it to fall to the bottom.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 23 August 2013 14: 49 New
    +2
    Quote: Standard Oil
    Look at Ukraine is what will happen to Russia when we run out of oil and gas.

    Come on, leave these horror stories) Perhaps they weren’t better now, it would be an incentive to row with tripled strength for a brighter future)
    1. Standard Oil
      Standard Oil 23 August 2013 15: 09 New
      +1
      That Ukraine, that Russia only made some kind of border and set up posts, and there’s no difference everywhere the same foolishness as in Russia, watching the news somewhere in Zhitomir or here in Ryazan no difference, all the same: fools, roads and thief-officials, though in Russia they often show an infallible sovereign who has been sadly reading the same song for many years, in Ukraine even sad faces are changing.
  • saag
    saag 23 August 2013 14: 52 New
    +3
    Quote: Standard Oil
    Look at Ukraine is what will happen to Russia when we run out of oil and gas.

    No, this repetition will not happen, because by the time oil and gas run out, nuclear energy will most likely develop, and I assume hydrogen
    1. Standard Oil
      Standard Oil 23 August 2013 15: 00 New
      0
      And what are we going to sell? How to replenish the budget, nothing is being done to get off the oil needle.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 23 August 2013 14: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Max Otto
    Here many people write that it is necessary to let Ukraine make a mistake, let them enter there somewhere, then they will come. It will not happen. When Ukraine reaches the bottom, Russia will become even more guilty, simply because there is a saying: don’t live richly - don’t angry your neighbors, a lot of accusations will come that they were taxed at the border, they don’t want to take goods, they raised the gas price again, transit it but bypassing Ukraine launched, reptiles shorter. Hatred of Russia will increase at times. But Russia really does not behave correctly, it’s impossible, it is more difficult for a Ukrainian to obtain Russian citizenship than Tajiks say, is that really right? Yes, citizenship must be distributed there to everyone, especially in the Crimea. With the same "Roshen" it was necessary to quietly decide through the FSB - tovarisch, if you want to continue to carry your goods to Russia, be kind, you don’t talk rubbish on your TV channel, but rather show some comedies if your gut shows Russia in a positive way. What? No channel? So buy, you fucking oligarch! Moreover, it is desirable to conduct a conversation in such a way that it would not be profitable to refuse.
    In the meantime, I see that Russia has really spat on Ukraine, and has not been climbing there for a very long time, allowing it to go to the bottom.

    So, Russia and Ukraine have been talking for 22 years, but they haven’t started loving us anymore, or even vice versa) So I think let our people do what they warned about quietly, Ukraine will not die, they will soon put a European nutritional dropper in order to exist, and it’s time for Russia to try to start living and moving forward now it’s sad as if it weren’t without Ukraine, and not stagnate with it, so you’ve counted 22 years.
    1. Max otto
      Max otto 23 August 2013 15: 25 New
      +3
      Here, EGORKA, you make a typical Russian mistake - with an open visor to the barricades, the Russian government also did the same, well, what can we do with our other mentality. Here, initially it was necessary to act subtler, not directly in the forehead, but indirectly and imperceptibly.
    2. michajlo
      michajlo 23 August 2013 18: 18 New
      +2
      EGORKA RU Today, 14:57

      Good afternoon, dear, I'm sorry I do not know how to dignify you!
      I beg to differ.
      About the Kiev political elite, we all should not worry, here we understand each other good .
      But how will Russia feel if will American missiles and planes be in Sumy, Kharkov and Donetsk? It is not enough for all of us that the American BIO Labs are already working in Eastern Ukraine, and that the PLUMA and other bio-gifts from there will be blown to Russia by the wind?

      I understand that many people don’t give a damn about the economy, especially the hungry and poor, but we ALL have to consider the geopolitical dangers. "Then ..." - it will be too late.
      Sincerely, Mikhailo.
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 23 August 2013 21: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: michajlo
        But how will Russia feel if American missiles and planes are in Sumy, Kharkov and Donetsk?

        Good afternoon!
        It was precisely on this occasion that more than once had to "clash" with radical opponents from Ukraine.
        I repeat, Russia does not need an “enemy at the gates”! And the Russian state will use all acceptable measures of pressure on the Ukrainian authorities, which is perceived by some users as an "attempt on sovereignty" ...
      2. SHILO
        SHILO 23 August 2013 22: 59 New
        +2
        But for the bio lab to the point! good

        My plus!
  • Vtel
    Vtel 23 August 2013 15: 04 New
    +3
    The princespe pity the brothers from Ukraine, we are also not very chocolate. Our countries are ruled by a liberal oligarchic cashher, and until the authorities truly patriotic Slavs appear, they will have to wait until tomorrow for the good.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 23 August 2013 15: 09 New
    +2
    Quote: Vtel
    The princespe pity the brothers from Ukraine, we are also not very chocolate. Our countries are ruled by a liberal oligarchic cashher, and until the authorities truly patriotic Slavs appear, they will have to wait until tomorrow for the good.

    I think it’s time to regret the current yourself), but not much and not for long, but to start working even more, and even we need a dropper)
  • saag
    saag 23 August 2013 15: 11 New
    +4
    Quote: Standard Oil
    And what are we going to sell?

    Electricity, it will become an even more demanded product
    1. Standard Oil
      Standard Oil 23 August 2013 15: 29 New
      0
      For you, I see, is the glass always half full? drinks
    2. Egoza
      23 August 2013 15: 59 New
      +5
      Quote: saag
      Quote: Standard Oil
      And what are we going to sell?

      Electricity, it will become an even more demanded product


      CLEAN WATER _ DRINKING !!! there they’ll spoil all nature with shale gas, but without water there’s no way to survive!
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 23 August 2013 15: 39 New
    +2
    Quote: Max Otto
    Here, EGORKA, you make a typical Russian mistake - with an open visor to the barricades, the Russian government also did the same, well, what can we do with our other mentality. Here, initially it was necessary to act subtler, not directly in the forehead, but indirectly and imperceptibly.


    Uh no, I picked up the visor when the situation is already clear)
  • Corneli
    Corneli 23 August 2013 18: 21 New
    +2
    Is the site buggy? Put a person plus ... minus displayed belay . tried the opposite - poked a minus, koment plusanulo. What is this circus? am
    1. Vtel
      Vtel 23 August 2013 19: 13 New
      +3
      Change the keys on the keyboard and all business, in politics it happens.
    2. The comment was deleted.