Military Review

The accident "Proton" - a necessary afterword

54
Who is guilty of the fall of long-spent media


2 July 2013, the Proton-M launch vehicle crashed. Russia as a space power suffered a huge reputational damage, material losses amounted to six billion rubles. This was stated at the beginning of August at a meeting in the Government House of the Russian Federation chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. We publish in the reduction of expert speeches.

No military acceptance

The launch of the Proton-M launch vehicle No. 53543 with the 11 accelerating unit 86103 No. 2l, the Glonass-M spacecraft unit No. 47 was performed on July 2 in 5 38 minutes 21 minutes of Moscow standard time from the launch complex 8ppnppNppXNppXNppXNppXNppXNppXNpp 882) Baikonur Cosmodrome. The launch ended with a crash of a space rocket on the 24 second flight.

The accident "Proton" - a necessary afterword

The destruction of the structure and the fall of the components occurred outside the launch complex. There are no victims and destructions. At the site of the fall, a crater measuring 40x25 meters in size and up to five meters deep was formed. Recorded vegetation ignition on an area of ​​about five hectares. Local contamination detected by residues of propellant components. Measures to eliminate the consequences of the accident and environmental monitoring were carried out by Russian and Kazakhstani specialists. Selected samples of air, soil and water showed the absence of exceeding the allowable standards for the concentration of rocket fuel components (КРТ) and its destruction products. Work on detoxification of pollution will be continued until the necessary reduction in the content of MCT.

In order to clarify the causes of the accident, an interdepartmental commission was formed by decision of Roskosmos and the Ministry of Defense 2 July. It consisted of representatives of Roskosmos, the Armed Forces of the East Kazakhstan region, the leading research organizations of the rocket and space industry, and the Ministry of Defense of Russia. The commission carried out a comprehensive analysis of the design, technological and operational documentation of the Proton-M launch vehicle, and studied in detail the telemetric, trajectory photo and video information obtained during the launch. The process of manufacturing and testing the launch vehicle and its components at the Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center and at the enterprises of cooperation is considered. The issues of transportation, storage, product preparation on the technical and launch complexes are analyzed. The material part found after the accident was investigated, a number of experiments and tests were carried out.

It has been established that the Proton-M launch vehicle was manufactured under the state contract of March 20 between the Russian Ministry of Defense and the Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center under the federal target program Global Navigation System. The rocket was assembled, completed and tested with positive results. At the same time, 2010 was allowed to deviate from the design and technological documentation issued by the respective cards. Preparation of components on technical complexes, neutralization filling stations, launch complex was carried out in accordance with the operational documentation. Violations of technological discipline during the preparation was not revealed. The quality of propellant components met the requirements. Weather data and electromagnetic environment at the time of launch is normal. Pre-start charging of the basic oxidizer of the fuel propulsion systems of the first, second and third stages, switching to on-board power according to the start-up cyclogram.

The launch and start of operation of the propulsion system of the first stage went smoothly. The engines operated stably until the rocket fell. The control system acted as planned. The contact lift signal was formed from the gearbox prior to the actual launch of the launch vehicle from the starter supports, approximately 0,4 seconds before the estimated time.

After 6,8 seconds from the signal from the gearbox, a sharp increase in the values ​​of the control actions on the 1, 3, 4, 6 th steering engines and their rotation to the maximum permissible angles began to be observed. The steering wheels of steering gears on the yaw channel reached maximum values ​​(7,5 degrees). Formation of signs of exceeding the limiting values ​​of the angles was recorded. Perturbations along the channel of yaw were not parried by automatic stabilization. As a result, the command “Rocket carrier crash” was formed on 12,733 seconds from the KP signal.

The analysis showed that the unstable divergent process observed from the beginning of the flight in terms of motion parameters in the yaw channel is associated with the freelance operation of three angular velocity sensors (PV-301). The signal of these sensors had a sign opposite to the angular velocity of the launch vehicle through this channel. That is, it did not correspond to the actual movement of the launch vehicle.

To establish the reasons for the sensor malfunction, the commission analyzed the technological documentation, the manufacturing process, installation and testing of PV-301 devices at manufacturers, in particular, in the Saratov branch of the federal state unitary enterprise Scientific and Production Center for Automation and Instrumentation named after Academician N. A. Pilyugina "- production association" Korpus "(FL FSUE" NPTSAP "-" ON "KORPUS"), which sent a group of specialists. The audit showed that the installation of the PV-301 is made in the tail section of the second stage of the launch vehicle on the bracket in accordance with the technological process. But the documentation does not regulate the control actions to determine the direction of installation of the device other than visual inspection. Each device is mounted on four pins.

There are drawbacks of the installation process. There is no visual information about the installation of the device on the bracket. If the pin does not match with the holes for it, the process is not controlled, including not looking for the direction of the arrows on the upper surface of the housing, which determine the correct position of the device on the bracket. It is possible to install the device with a rotation of 180 degrees. The experiment confirmed this in the same way as the tight fit (after tightening the nuts) of the device to the surface of the bracket. Connecting standard cables to an improperly mounted device does not cause strong reverse resistance of the cable barrel and cable cores.

On the site of the fall of the rocket, a search was organized for the hardware of devices PV-301. The commission found that on the mating surfaces of three of the six PV-301 devices there are characteristic traces of force. All this confirmed the fact that the three PV-301 devices were incorrectly installed on the Proton-M launch vehicle.

Findings. The reason for the emergency start-up is the incorrect installation of the angular velocity sensor along the yaw channel, made at the enterprise of Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center. The applied methods and methods of control during ground preparation and testing, the operating design, technological and operational documentation do not allow detecting the incorrect installation of the PV-301 sensors on the launch vehicle. The commission proposed Tekhnomash to develop a list of recommendations for the manufacture of rocket and space technology products requiring photo and video registration, and to adjust the corresponding GOST. The Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center together with the cooperation enterprises should develop an action plan to verify the existing backlog of Proton-M missiles.

To the leading enterprises - developers, manufacturers of the product - to analyze the completeness and sufficiency of the existing lists of critical elements and especially important operations, including those removed from control by the military missions of the Ministry of Defense. The Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center together with the Federal State Unitary Enterprise “NPTSAP” FL - “KORPUS” software will change the design of the PV-301 instrument case and the bracket in order to prevent their incorrect installation. Enter the photo and video recording of the device installation on the bracket, as well as the docking of the onboard cable network connectors. Together with the VP of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation to clarify the list and procedure for monitoring particularly important operations in the manufacture and testing of rocket and space technology products.

Prior to 2010, the installation of the PF-301 was carried out under the control of military acceptance. Today it is not. Installation performs worker site. The master checks his work, and a representative of the Quality Control Department controls both and makes an entry in the appropriate log. The names of these officials have been established, but they do not admit their guilt, claiming that they all performed in accordance with previous technological maps. However, the commission unequivocally established that the fact of an incorrect installation was. The angular velocity sensors turned rotated 180 degrees. The worker who performed this operation is a young graduate of a technical college.

Alexander Lopatin,
Deputy Head of Roskosmos, Co-Chairman of the State Commission



The reasons are ambiguous.

The PV-301 devices appeared for the first time on the Proton-M rocket. They showed their reliability. At present, the Saratov enterprise has already released over 70 of such kits.

A feature of the launch of the rocket was that the lift contact, which is essentially a launch command, is fixed to 0,4 seconds earlier. But the reason for the appearance of this contact is not clearly identified. Additional analysis, including individual elements and units of the launcher. We believe that the appearance of this premature launch team is not the cause of the accident. When re-polling engine controllers, when they had already entered the main thrust mode, this command was removed and the launch could have been completed without unpleasant consequences, as shown by an experiment on a simulator bench.

At the same time, there is a certain increase in the pitch angle in the pitch channel in connection with the development of the evasion program for the launcher, but there is a very good agreement between the readings of the angular velocity sensors in pitch and the readings that were taken off with a gyro-stabilized platform. All checks related to the installation and operation of the PV-310 device after its manufacture at the factory, then come down only to testing its electrical work without finding out and determining the polarity. That is, technically there are no means that would allow to physically create the working conditions of this device in flight, which is associated with serious material costs. Our experiment to install the device showed that you can push the pins into the body of the bracket and put the devices incorrectly. The prints of these pins are clearly visible on the instruments that were delivered from the fallen rocket. This operation was carried out with violations of technology. There are comments on constructive. The four holes for the studs on which this device is placed are made on a square, which in principle makes it possible to turn it into 180 degrees. So, the so-called protection, which should be incorporated in the design documentation, is not fully provided.

Launch vehicle "Proton-M" in 2001 year entered the stage of flight tests. This is a modernized rocket with improved characteristics, which uses a digital control system, forced engines, advanced telemetry, a number of aggregates of composite materials. It was generally launched 74 times and had only two emergency starts, including the current one. The direct dependence of emergency launches with the number of permission cards was not revealed. One of the most serious reasons that led to a decline in the quality of work is the removal from control of military acceptance bodies, the decline in the functions performed by it. In the same State Research and Production Space Center named after MV Khrunichev, in 1994, 238 people worked in military acceptance, of which 82 was an officer. Today, VP consists of 10 officers and 39 civilians. 82 percent of operations that were previously controlled by the EAP on the Proton-M rocket are today outside its area of ​​responsibility. It is possible to argue, but the practice of not only Soviet, but also the initial Russian one shows that the EAP is an effective tool in the implementation of independent control. Now it is decided to restore the military acceptance. First of all, it must be revived precisely in such enterprises.

As for the quality control personnel, today the number of those who have been working for only two to four years, and those who are already far behind 60 years, is growing. This suggests that the middle link of the most qualified specialists (due to certain events of the 90-s) was washed out and did not recover. The problems of professional training, which are related to the fact that the system of vocational schools in the country has been transferred to the level of municipal departments that are not concerned with these issues, remain acute.

Yuri Koptev,
independent expert team leader



Measures taken

In my opinion, the main fault of all that happened, lies on the designers and technical staff. The first did not provide for the incorrect installation of three sensors of angular velocity. But only they knew that this sensor on the launching table was no longer checked. To do this, the rocket itself would have to tilt. The second reason is technological. There is no fixed place for the installation of devices. They can be installed as part of one rocket stage, or when it has already been assembled as a whole. Check the installation is very difficult. Thus, the combination of these two causes led to an error, which turned into an accident.

When I talked with the worker and the master who installed the sensor, they said that they could not imagine what the consequences could be. This indicates a lack of human resources at the plant. The company has a low salary, one of the smallest in the industry - about 40 thousand rubles. Part of the problem is related to the fact that at one time in the Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center they decided to concentrate about 40 percent of the Roscosmos industry. It turned out that the center's management ceased to be engaged in its main platform and pulled out the enterprises that had entered the center from the pre-bankruptcy state. As a result, product quality control was weakened.

To remedy the situation, a whole series of tough personnel, organizational, technological, and other measures are taken. The status of deputy managers in quality has been increased at the enterprises of the industry. For federal launch programs, we will create directorates for interaction with the customer, support for manufacturing products that have long been active in commercial launches. Programs have been developed to re-equip production facilities and introduce automated quality control systems. Together with the Ministry of Industry and Trade, measures are being implemented to provide rocket and space technology with a promising electronic component base. Created additional working groups for the verification of spacecraft, the launch of which is planned. Measures are being taken to restore military missions. All this should give the appropriate result.

Vladimir Popovkin,
Head of Roscosmos



Criminal negligence

We are discussing a resonant accident that residents of the Russian Federation and other countries of the world saw on the air. We have not had such an accident for a long time, actually at the start of a spacecraft. Therefore, the versions we are considering can only be based on facts. But in general, this is a serious reason to hold a discussion on the further development of the rocket and space industry. Moreover, by the decision of the President, we have created another commission that should determine the configuration of the rocket and space industry and its relations with the Federal Space Agency. This work goes in parallel, so many issues will have to be considered simultaneously.

Discussing the accident with Proton-M, we are forced to return to the eternal questions of Russian literature: “Who is to blame?” And “What to do?”. Let's decide.

The first. The state commission identified the technical cause of the accident: incorrect installation of the angular velocity sensors. It is necessary to answer the question: why in the production of a standard serial rocket - products with a proven manufacturing technology made it possible to incorrectly install these systems? Why it is not revealed in advance and not eliminated?

The second. The whole process - from development to rocket manufacturing - is strictly regulated. Why did so ridiculous technical errors become possible? The reason for this is the lack of technical discipline, sometimes criminal negligence of officials, formal, superficial measures taken by the Federal Space Agency to ensure the quality of mass-produced products, the absence of material and administrative responsibility of enterprises and specific managers for the results of their activities.

Third. We analyze a large-scale accident, but it is not clear who is to blame. Abstract constructors, abstract technologists, some switchmen who say that they have nothing to do with it, and that they do not remember well. And what is offered in return? Install photo and video recorders. Well, find out who allowed this marriage. Then there is another explanation: staff turnover, underfunding, low wages. And then what? We need to solve problems, and not sprinkle ashes on our heads. We have offensive, annoying failures against the background of generally serious and large-scale measures that are being taken by the country's leadership to raise the military-industrial complex in general and the rocket and space industry in particular. Huge money is being channeled into these areas, but the measures taken by Roskosmos to ensure the quality and reliability of the produced equipment did not lead to the expected result. In connection with the Proton-M accident, they ruined six billion rubles. In essence, they damaged the reputation of the rocket and space industry and the Russian industry as a whole. After all, space exploration, achievements in this area are always a matter of the country's prestige. All with great attention (from grandparents to the younger generation) watched these achievements, were proud of them. And now?

In explaining the reasons, they say, there have always been accidents: both in the times of Sergei Korolev and after it. This is true, but again I want to emphasize: “Proton-M” is a regular rocket. How many times already she flew with us. Yuri Nikolaevich Koptev spoke about this. In various versions: in a two-stage version - 1965 year - four starts (one of them is emergency), 1967 – 2012 years - 310 starts of the “Proton-K” type (21 of them is emergency). In general, 388 starts. The figures confirm the fact that this is a full-time rocket. There was nothing unusual in the last launch. The product is created according to the design documentation, which has long been developed. But now it turns out: it turns out that with the help of someone's mother and a sledgehammer, it is possible to spice up such an important unit of the control system upside down. It means that the directors of the American film “Armageddon” are right when they showed our cosmonaut Andropov, who flies in a spaceship in a hat with a earflap and corrects malfunctions with a hammer. So today, in fact, with the help of a hammer, we put the product in place.

Since December 2010, we have already had nine accidents. And the most part when launching state-owned spacecraft is six accidents. This raises questions about why launches, which are carried out in the interests of government customers, as a rule, do not have serious insurance. Perhaps this fact will also have an impact on the responsible organizations for the results of the launches?

We discussed this issue with the Prime Minister. The decision was made - there can be no launches without insurance. This is nonsense. Insurance should be at the expense of the customer (commercial, state - no matter what) and be included in the total cost of the launch. Is it really incomprehensible? One billion 200 million rubles worth GLONASS satellite. Three have burned down. But this is the most important navigation system - the basis of the sovereignty and security of Russia. And now we are sitting, thinking: when and how will we fill this space group?

Video cameras can, of course, be installed anywhere, at least in every workroom. But, maybe, we still need other solutions - more serious, systemic, global. The problem is actually in the system of established relations within the industry. The number of unsuccessful launches over the past two and a half years convincingly says that the causes of accidents are much deeper. They are systemic in nature and require not only organizational and technical measures, but also structural transformations of industry, federal bodies that are responsible for implementing the space program, the whole system of their interaction.

Findings. The first. Among the managers of the space industry there are no specialists with experience in strategic planning and production management of technical services and rocket and space technology, including in the field of its reliability.

The second. The functions of the customer, manufacturer and curator of space systems have not yet been separated. Also, the main political objectives of the space industry are not defined. What do we want from her in general, what tasks - global, political, pragmatic - are we setting ourselves. There are many papers, including those that have passed through the government’s filter, but there is little confusion.

Third. Every time when forming space programs, you have to ask yourself the question: why? Everyone says that manned space flight is needed. But why? Who and what else we have to prove. What can keep our astronauts in orbit indefinitely? Proved. Then what? In fact, the Federal Space Agency has withdrawn from such an important task as stimulating demand in the domestic market for space services. As if it is only responsible for the launches. Who projects at least the organization of interaction between federal executive bodies and specific structures in the market so that people can take full advantage of these services? But this is the remote sensing of the Earth, and navigation, and communications, and much more.

Fourth. Weakly formed scientific and technical groundwork. Do you know how many scientific papers in the United States are devoted to rocket and space technology from 2007 to 2011 a year? 716. In the European Union - 658. We have 139. But we are a global space power, which launched the first satellite, the first cosmonaut. But our groundwork will in fact soon be exhausted.

The fifth. The industry is poorly managed. Salary is low. But it will be low if we have a huge number of enterprises doing the same thing: in fact, in parallel, simultaneously working on the implementation of similar tasks. How many enterprises produce satellites - 10. In the US - four, in China - two. At the same time, they have a resource that does not compete with foreign ones.

The sixth. There is no uniform technical policy in space production. Practically all enterprises are, figuratively speaking, natural farming. They are poorly equipped with modern equipment, have poor applied software. The issues of material liability of enterprises, managers for the results of their vigorous activity have not been resolved.

So, if we summarize the conversation and briefly name the causes of the accident, then this is inefficient management, excess capacity, a muddy understanding of the goals of space activities and, moreover, the conditions for the functioning of the industry. At the highest level, we need to think about the issue of combining space and aviation industry. To this end, a commission is already beginning to work, which should lay down the configuration of the rocket and space industry. I consider the idea of ​​discussing the issue of combining the rights of a single technical policy, all that is being done both in the space industry and in the aviation industry, in demand. Moreover, in aviation the ceiling of opportunities is now expanding. Aircraft may appear, operating both in near space and in airspace. We must use this chance. The second such opportunity will not be presented. Therefore, it is necessary to determine the geography of responsibility of the new integrated space and rocket corporation. And the last one. The State Commission is obliged not only to reveal the technical causes of the accident, but also to submit an opinion on the guilt and responsibility of officials of industrial enterprises, representatives of the Space Agency. Consider the issue of financial loss. I hope that the prosecutor’s check will be aimed at this.

Dmitry Rogozin,
Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/
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  1. bilgesez
    bilgesez 22 August 2013 18: 57
    0
    This is actually called a systemic crisis. You need to change everything from the very top. Putin has shown his inability to build a society based on the principles of justice and social equality. On the contrary, the system promoted by him is anti-people, one of the main components of this system is Russophobia. What he is trying to build is not clear. And the visible results of his attempts are a reduction in the number of the Russian people and their impoverishment.
    1. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 22 August 2013 19: 18
      12
      Quote: bilgesez
      This is actually called a systemic crisis.

      I agree. Only you reduced it only to a personnel problem ... although it should not be forgotten. But this problem also arises from the main one - the foundations of the state system, the economic foundation .. Were they so wasteful in the USSR that they kept 238 people in the military acceptance, including 82 military men. Now - 39v including 10 military. No! There was a system of responsibility. Everything was controlled thoroughly. and until there was a signature of at least one necessary control employee ... no one had the right to replace this signature by force. While there will be private property in this crucial sector - such a disregard for government orders will continue further!
      1. stroporez
        stroporez 22 August 2013 19: 36
        +7
        bilgesez said everything correctly. to clean the nada from the top. but then what --- the subordinates see that the management is all for x ....... and for the passage .... and even outright sabotage does not plant and almost rewards- -from and we have sho we have. all these calls of the authorities for honesty, quality, etc. "nishtyaks" can be slammed with one phrase ---- "lads, show an example ..." and none of them can show this example, including the "guarantor" ................
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 22 August 2013 20: 34
          +9
          Quote: ..
          The cause of an emergency start is incorrect sensor installation.


          Protons have been made since the 60s. Since 1967, the rocket has been launched in its modern form - in three- and four-stage versions. The reliability factor of the "Proton" LV is currently 0.97. there are no missiles of this class more reliable. The assembly is perfected and still 300% controlled, so you can't put the sensors upside down, but the fact that the management, unlike the staff, watched the launch from the bunker is suggestive
          1. Airman
            Airman 22 August 2013 22: 18
            +4
            Quote: Vadivak
            Quote: ..
            The cause of an emergency start is incorrect sensor installation.


            Protons have been made since the 60s. Since 1967, the rocket has been launched in its modern form - in three- and four-stage versions. The reliability factor of the "Proton" LV is currently 0.97. there are no missiles of this class more reliable. The assembly is perfected and still 300% controlled, so you can't put the sensors upside down, but the fact that the management, unlike the staff, watched the launch from the bunker is suggestive

            Were there satellites on board? If the rocket and the upper stage are numbered, then ALL satellites are designated No. 47, and this suggests that instead of satellites there were GVM (dimensional and weight models) And how in a heap of burnt scrap metal you can find sensors, and even "see" scratches.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 22 August 2013 19: 23
      0
      What kind of crap is this article? Why is the article not mentioning what kind of satellites this proton should have taken out? It will immediately become clear that this is a diversion of a foreign state against Russia. Russia in response should bring down two GPS satellites.
      1. Mitek
        Mitek 22 August 2013 19: 35
        +5
        Quote: Setrac
        What kind of crap is this article? Why is the article not mentioning what kind of satellites this proton should have taken out? It will immediately become clear that this is a diversion of a foreign state against Russia. Russia in response should bring down two GPS satellites.

        Shot down .. here you are enough. But the hedgehog is understandable that it was not just that the sensors were thrust upside down. There is only one problem in Russia. LAWS DO NOT WORK, and as a result no one is responsible for anything. Therefore, rockets fall, steal, they are judged anyhow, lezginka dance with shooting and much more. Diverse problems have one root.
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak 22 August 2013 20: 58
        +6
        Quote: Setrac
        Why is the article not mentioning what kind of satellites this proton should have taken out?


        There is a version that three buckets of food waste worth 200 million cu
      3. brace
        brace 22 August 2013 22: 11
        +3
        A good excuse, Lada also collect enemies. Although you are right. Reversion. But look for saboteurs not there.
    3. maxvik
      maxvik 22 August 2013 19: 32
      +3
      Again the Tsar is completely and completely to blame !!!!
      How can Putin build a society on the principles of justice and equality, if most of this society itself rejects these principles?
      There remains one option for everyone who does not agree to plant or shoot. And who will do it? Yes, representatives of the same society. And how will they do, whom to plant? Yes, someone who does not pay off. And what do you get?
      1. stroporez
        stroporez 22 August 2013 20: 05
        10
        and who else !!!!!! ??????????? both tolyans are across the throats of this very society, and sho does the "king" ---- looking for a way to smear them (tolyans). and then to climb out and gundit about corruption, about that sho is not 37 years old, about a boat that does not need to be rocked ....... he himself, for his discrediting, does more than all the opposition put together ........
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak 22 August 2013 20: 42
        +4
        Quote: maxvik
        How can Putin build a society on the principles of justice and equality, if most of this society itself rejects these principles?


        And why then run for if you do not know how?
        On August 9, 1999, by decree of Russian President Boris Yeltsin, FSB Director Vladimir Putin was appointed Acting Prime Minister. How many years have passed? 14 years in power, and according to your people, as it interfered with building, it interferes
        1. Aljavad
          Aljavad 23 August 2013 00: 25
          -1
          Stalin in the 13th year began to really put things in order.
      3. Aljavad
        Aljavad 23 August 2013 00: 23
        +1
        correctly! Putin did not inspect the rocket - he is to blame! And he doesn’t look at the judges! And in general, what is he doing there?
        We have no justice and equality here - and he doesn’t blow his mind! Here are the rockets and fall. (not addressed to maxvik, just the word had to be from the above read, but he - "+"
        1. alicante11
          alicante11 23 August 2013 07: 14
          +1
          Understand. If the GDP wanted to "build a socially just society," then it would have to do the only thing - to hold a referendum on a return to the socialist planned system. Desirable with Stalinist (Chinese) amendments in the form of a small private owner. If he did this, he would be the greatest leader in Russia after Stalin, even if he immediately resigned after that.
      4. alicante11
        alicante11 23 August 2013 07: 09
        0
        How can Putin build a society on the principles of justice and equality, if most of this society itself rejects these principles?


        Who rejects this? Point with your finger. If a bunch of oligarchs and officials reject it, this does not mean that they reject the majority.
    4. Airman
      Airman 22 August 2013 20: 05
      +4
      The conclusions of the commission, the search for the switchman and juggling the facts. Brown smoke in one of the engines at 5-7 seconds suggests something else. The rocket caught fire even in the air, and not as a result of a blow to the ground. I DO NOT BELIEVE them, saving my skin they substitute defenseless workers.
      1. tanit
        tanit 23 August 2013 05: 09
        0
        Brown "smoke" lol Well, have fun. These are just the components not burnt RT. EW; I'm sorry, I don't know how the fuel burns in the Internet air defense, but I watched this "smoke" from the ground (not from the bunker), and not from YouTube.
    5. starshina78
      starshina78 22 August 2013 20: 57
      14
      I would like to add. The whole trouble of the Russian engineering industry, and practically of all branches of industry, is no training of engineering personnel. An engineer who graduated from the institute comes to the enterprise and is lost. He knows absolutely nothing! No technology, no equipment operation. I am not familiar with design activities at all, and all this is due to the broken ties of the institute with production. An engineer comes to my shop (he went to the plant himself!), But he doesn't know what to do. I ask: “Where did you practice?” The answer killed me: “My dad’s in the service.” And this is an institute graduate. For the first time he saw a truck alive and close on a pit, with a disassembled engine and gearbox. And where does that go? So it is in other workshops. A metalworking technologist comes, but he did not see the machine up close. Earlier, if anyone remembers, the practice was real. In practice, I remember working on a bulldozer, screwing on the nuts while repairing the nuts, and rolling the asphalt on a skating rink on the road. We came to production knowing where we were going. And the workers came to the plant from vocational schools, being able to work on machine tools, to work as assistants of a steelmaker, they could immediately participate in assembly and assembly work, because out of three or two years of study at vocational schools, they spent half of their studies at the plant in workshops. Now what? They go to engineers, because there is a small competition - you will pass a hundred pounds (many go if only to get a higher education), in vocational schools, which still barely breathe, they train specialists, but there is no practice (not every plant will take on practice), here and they knit together, if only to get attached somewhere. Until we again revive the connections of institutes and vocational schools with enterprises, where students will undergo full-fledged practice, until they go to engineers by vocation, "and it does not matter where", they restore distribution after graduation from the institute and vocational schools, we will not have normal fly rockets, design new equipment and produce it according to technology.
      1. Aljavad
        Aljavad 23 August 2013 00: 33
        +1
        everything is right! to break - not to build. The SYSTEM collapsed, which has been formed for decades, and now, you can’t bring it back, and forward - and so - is not good, and that’s not okay. I think, all the same, back to the system of state order for specialists and state distribution of graduates. Well, the control of specialized departments over the training program, practice, etc.
        1. studentmati
          studentmati 23 August 2013 00: 38
          +1
          Quote: Aljavad
          I think, all the same, back to the system of state order for specialists and state distribution of graduates. Well, the control of specialized departments over the training program, practice, etc.


          This system has been developed over the years and blood. And by the mid-80s it was honed to a shine. Why reinvent the wheel?
    6. Aljavad
      Aljavad 23 August 2013 00: 15
      -1
      A systemic crisis all over the world has been hopping for years, the whole civilization is in a crisis - click anywhere. And here we are only lacking revolution. And after it - civil war and inevitable devastation. All that was in 87-99 and that with great difficulty is left behind.
    7. olviko
      olviko 23 August 2013 05: 56
      0
      Damn, Putin turned into a universal excuse, a sort of rubber dummy for whipping. In our team recently, two bukharas hung out for a week, it is not known where. The boss dismisses them, the wives came running, oh don’t fire, we have children. The question is, if a person has no sense of responsibility neither for himself, nor for work, nor for his children, then what is Putin's fault again? Correctly, Popovkin writes how untrained personnel can be allowed to work, who do not know which end to install the sensor for. Who is responsible for the training? or when installing these sensors, according to the instructions, should Putin stand behind him?
    8. alicante11
      alicante11 23 August 2013 07: 01
      +1
      Putin has shown his inability to build a society based on the principles of justice and social equality.


      So he did not try. Under capitalism, this is in principle impossible. And GDP, pipe dreams, IMHO, does not suffer.
  2. svp67
    svp67 22 August 2013 19: 03
    14
    Well, that's the same. 6 billion damage due to the decision of Mr. Serdyukov to remove the military acceptance ... Well, at least a fine, for this decision they can impose on him, so 60 million. Well, at least some kind of "balm" for the soul
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 22 August 2013 19: 47
      +7
      Quote: svp67
      can impose on him, so 60 million. Well, at least some kind of "balm" for the soul

      There will be a balm if this fat goat suddenly breaks a stroke and he will spoil himself for the rest of his life, because he will never be imprisoned and even more so they will not be shot, and he will not even notice a penalty of 60 lemons like an elephant in the ass.
  3. PavelOPG
    PavelOPG 22 August 2013 19: 16
    +3
    hang him by the cocktails angry
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 22 August 2013 19: 51
      +1
      Quote: PavelOPG
      hang him by the cocktails

      NOT, it’s better like a pig, for an Adam's apple, and shove the cuckoos into your mouth.
  4. Stepnogorets
    Stepnogorets 22 August 2013 19: 21
    +5
    Quote: bilgesez
    This is actually called a systemic crisis. You need to change everything from the very top. Putin has shown his inability to build a society based on the principles of justice and social equality. On the contrary, the system promoted by him is anti-people, one of the main components of this system is Russophobia. What he is trying to build is not clear. And the visible results of his attempts are a reduction in the number of the Russian people and their impoverishment.

    And here is Putin?
    1. bilgesez
      bilgesez 22 August 2013 19: 36
      -2
      And who does Moshe Dayan or the Pope
      1. bilgesez
        bilgesez 22 August 2013 21: 53
        +1
        Even in the brigade of builders, migrant workers, the brigadier is responsible for everything. And the head of state, the guarantor of the constitution, is fully responsible for everything that happens in the state. And the correct personnel policy is his primary duty. Cadres are selected for certain tasks, and therefore, according to the results of the work of his personnel, you can understand what tasks he set for them. And the rest is hanging noodles on the ears of gullible idiots.
        1. Aljavad
          Aljavad 23 August 2013 00: 37
          0
          And why aren't you president? For a long time we would have had fair communism ...
        2. olviko
          olviko 25 August 2013 12: 24
          0
          Dear, how many Shuttles got to the USA? that I have never heard that a star-striped president would be presented with some sort of improper selection of personnel.
    2. Aljavad
      Aljavad 23 August 2013 00: 36
      0
      So he does everything himself. And it fights rockets and fights corruption and sells oil (in cans). Here he is to blame. I overlooked !!! And for a third term! Such is the logic.
  5. Strashila
    Strashila 22 August 2013 19: 22
    +7
    "... The Commission found that on the docking surfaces of three of the six PV-301 devices there are characteristic traces of force ... The methods and methods of control used during ground training and testing, the current design, technological and operational documentation do not allow identifying incorrect installation sensors PV-301 on the launch vehicle. "... bullshit. !!!Type the controller did not see it during inspection!!! ... the installer did not feel that the thread was under tension ... 3 is correct ... 3 is not correct ... "The worker who performed this operation is a young graduate of a technical college." not a certified employee ... who would believe it. Actually, the question is different ... and duplication and redundancy of systems ... For 6 seconds everyone saw the nonsense ... and didn’t do anything !!!
    "The launch and start of the first stage propulsion system went smoothly. The engines functioned stably until the missile crashed. The control system operated as planned. The contact-lift signal was generated from the gearbox before the launch vehicle actually left the launch pad, for about 0,4 seconds. before the estimated time. "... before the estimated time, the rocket cannot come off ... for this there is a condition mass equals thrust ... undocking has gone to zero, delay is cranky ... the conclusion is that the weight has been screwed up ... sensors showed the norm, but did not coincide with the calculated indicator ???


    And what kind of full-time operation of the engines ... !!!the loop of the fuel component was all watched live!!!, he appeared twice, after the first, the engine restored its work, the rocket continued to rise ... but after the second time it appeared, it went sideways.

    Actually, you need to check ... and is there access to these sensors in Baikanur in the assembly and testing building ???
    1. Max
      Max 22 August 2013 20: 56
      +4
      Quote: Strashila
      Type allowed to installation not certified employee ... who will believe it
      What certification are you talking about ???I got drunk in college for 3 years, got my diploma, went to collect rockets, tk. do not take anywhere else. (Of course, this does not apply to all graduates.) The salary is small, so the work is appropriate. Receive and sign. And you: "saboteurs, catch them ..."
      Quote: Strashila
      the current design, technological and operational documentation does not allow to identify the incorrect installation of the PV-301 sensors on the launch vehicle
      such a case was also only on another product in the 70s, then a separate verification program was released after the accident. The serial product was.
      About the fact that young people and pence work - it has long been so for a long time - pensioners do not want to break away from anywhere, for the young people a delay from the army to the age of 27 years. If it is canceled, there will generally be only pennies and young fanatics + those who can’t get another job. And although the work is not on the profile, but still there is.
    2. onegin61
      onegin61 22 August 2013 23: 48
      +1
      the devices were not installed, but they were set incorrectly by force, which means that it was necessary to do this so that the flight did not go normally and the "payload" (and was it) burned out
    3. onegin61
      onegin61 22 August 2013 23: 50
      0
      the devices were not installed, but they were set incorrectly by force, which means that it was necessary to do this so that the flight would go wrong and the "payload" (and whether it was) burned out
    4. KOH
      KOH 23 August 2013 05: 10
      0
      There were two options, either sabotage, or satellites in place of puppets, and grandmas sawed ..., here it seems to me that the dog is upset ...
  6. georg737577
    georg737577 22 August 2013 19: 26
    16
    I read it and couldn't believe it. The catastrophe happened due to the fact that people working on the assembly of one of the most complex technical devices in the world DO NOT KNOW how to assemble it correctly. And the control over the assembly is insufficient, the assembled assembly itself is not protected "from the fool" during assembly, I am silent about the military acceptance ...
    PS Recently, a cheap penny Chinese alarm clock was being repaired - ALL of its gears have their own landing size and the shape of the axle end. It is impossible to collect incorrectly. Sadly that's all ...
    1. zennon
      zennon 22 August 2013 21: 07
      +6
      The catastrophe occurred due to the fact that people working on the assembly of one of the most complex technical devices in the world DO NOT KNOW how to assemble it.

      Yes, sad. Banal gouging. Ubiquitous and not surmountable ... Not quite in the dark, but as an example: Costa Concordia is a car included in the Top 10 largest cruise ships in the world. It has 15 decks, 14 elevators, 4 swimming pools, 5 restaurants and 1 450 comfortable cabins. Having on board almost 5000 people. 600 000 000 $, M.U.D.A.K. captain of the liner Francesco Skettino decided to bring closer to the coast of the island of Giglio and greet his friend, the former captain of the Costa Concordia, who lives on the island, as he did repeatedly in the past... 30 people died, two more are missing. The damage to the ship's owners is estimated at 1,5 billion euros. The operation of extracting a cruise ship from the water will take from seven to ten months ...
      1. Aljavad
        Aljavad 23 August 2013 00: 45
        0
        Great example! And this despite the fact that they had neither perestroika, nor the dashing 90s, nor Putin, who is always to blame, because he went for a third term.
        But among the super-smart, over-accurate and extra-decent Japanese, everything still smokes and leaks Fukushima. The anti-people regime is also probably to blame.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. The comment was deleted.
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 22 August 2013 20: 21
      +2
      Well, right ready skull good If the moderators do not wake up you will catch from me am bully
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Apollo
        Apollo 22 August 2013 20: 41
        +3
        Quote: Ruslan67
        If the moderators do not wake up you will catch from me


        soon he will fly away in an eternal ban.
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 22 August 2013 20: 56
          +3
          Quote: Apollon
          soon he will fly away in an eternal ban.

          Good luck wassat
  9. Oskar
    Oskar 22 August 2013 20: 00
    +7
    We need clearly formulated goals of the very existence and development of the Country. Moreover, the goals are understandable and accepted by the majority of the people of Russia, if you like - the Great Goals and Ideals. While the list of ideals imposed on us by the West ("easy" money, personal quick enrichment at any cost, "beautiful life") will be useless. People of principle are not even close to the helm. Therefore, rockets will fall, technology and brains will flow to the west, everything will burst and burst. It is very easy to compete with us - I paid "dearly" to a technician or a receiver and, for example, a rocket fell. They steal and sell everything and everyone (the entire bureaucratic apparatus gives a clear, unambiguous example - steal and nothing will happen to you). Deceived people do not hesitate to serve their false values ​​and from their point of view are absolutely right, their brains work differently, what can you do ...
    1. Sinbad
      Sinbad 22 August 2013 21: 58
      +1
      I completely agree with you. Look, the most recent example, "stool". They were "invited" as witnesses, and then they refused, and nothing!
    2. Aljavad
      Aljavad 23 August 2013 00: 54
      0
      You are right, Oscar! But these very "clearly formulated goals of the very existence and development" are called "ideology" and do not appear at someone's will. And even more so they are not accepted by the majority. Ideologies have always been few in number, and now they are all largely bankrupt. They feel more or less themselves - Western tolerant liberalism and radical Islamism. They do not roll Russia. And his own has not yet been born - that's chatting us as you yourself understand. Well, he has not yet been born - that new prophet in our country, either did not fit in the battle, or we all did not mature. It remains to wait.
  10. Setrac
    Setrac 22 August 2013 20: 04
    +1
    Well, so what is there with the load that was supposed to put the fallen proton into orbit?
    1. Oskar
      Oskar 22 August 2013 20: 09
      +1
      Three navigation satellites "Glonass-M", it seems.
      1. zennon
        zennon 22 August 2013 20: 46
        +1
        Three navigation satellites "Glonass-M", it seems.

        Yes, they went to the reserve ...
    2. Oskar
      Oskar 22 August 2013 20: 15
      +2
      They have already fallen so much, you won’t remember everything.
  11. APASUS
    APASUS 22 August 2013 20: 25
    +5
    This is the result of our personnel policy. When the director pulls his son, matchmaker, brother to his company.
    Professionalism is not in the price right now, personal loyalty is in the price now.
    1. Renat
      Renat 22 August 2013 20: 39
      +2
      That's right. Here is only one problem for such grief superiors. If you have to reduce the staff, then whom to remove? You touch one half the relatives will be offended. You touch another, there is nobody to work. Everything comes from unprofessionalism and irresponsibility. Well, think a few billion were lost. No one is responsible for this. Is that the switchman ...
  12. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 22 August 2013 20: 41
    +5
    An ordinary sabotage ... (Now the old one has already seen the recognition of the Italian saboteur and there is no reason to lie to him) he and a group of (submariners) blew up the cruiser Novorossiysk (in the early 50s) in the Havana of Sevastopol .. (this is a former Italian cruiser .. ) 600 of our sailors were killed .. well, the cruiser was scrapped .. Why, after 50 years, someone is also recognized as in the death of PAL "Kursk" .. Chernoble nuclear power plant .. everything is somehow strange and all this is interconnected .. . such a feeling ..
  13. zennon
    zennon 22 August 2013 20: 45
    +1
    It is possible to install the device with a 180 degree turn.
    The Commission found that on the docking surfaces of three of the six PV-301 devices there are characteristic traces of force.
    The angular velocity sensors were rotated 180 degrees. The worker who performed this operation is a young graduate of a technical college.

    MOM IS DEAR !!! fool
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 22 August 2013 20: 53
      0
      Quote: zennon
      MOM IS DEAR !!!

      Sensors rivet upside down with a sledgehammer - this is a modern upgrade!
  14. VadimSt
    VadimSt 22 August 2013 20: 56
    0
    Well, the military acceptance is just an analogue of the OTK, but the actions of the "craftsman", to hammer the sensors with a sledgehammer, cannot be called anything other than a crime. And if a rocket with a crew, will we write off the "live" losses on the lack of experience, professional skill and education?
  15. postman
    postman 22 August 2013 21: 16
    19
    [quote =] Dmitry Rogozin, Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation
    But now it turns out: it turns out that with the help of someone’s mother and a sledgehammer, you can spind up such an important block of the upside down control system. [Quote]

    Dmitry Olegovich ..... "Pandorit" PV-310 is certainly possible, BUT !!!

    But the angular velocity sensor on the first stage of the "Proton" is called TSE99-6SA and it is impossible to turn it over, by the way the dimensions of the CE-99-6SA 50X93,5 mm
    Try to "flip", "sprinkle" and "confuse" the connectors of the PV-301 instrument:



    Such a misfortune.

    And let everyone screw up and spank the PV-301 with a sledgehammer
    ....
    how to explain
    - It is impossible to mix up plus and minus when connecting wires. Two cables of different thicknesses and with connectors of different diameters become only in their sockets.
    - a loop of an unreacted nitrogen oxidizer (this fact captured the launch video) ????

    I offer options:
    - someone Vasya, transfused the oxidizing amine (maybe so)
    - Someone Petya, heptil was not completed, and (someone) Vova dropped 10 kopecks into the fuel line
    -someone .... well and so on

    the opinion of one of the founders of Proton, honorary general designer and honorary general director of the Reutov NPO Mashinostroeniya, who headed this organization from 1984 to 2007, Herbert Efremov:
    “Back in the mid-1980s, we were preparing a film about the history of Protons. There are footage of the Proton catastrophe of the late 1960s - early 1970s. They almost completely repeat the footage that everyone saw on TV on July 2. If if you look closely, you will see how a red stripe appears in the engine torch - this is an oxidizing agent, (amine) nitric acid. During the entire time of the Proton launches, the first stage failed only eight times. Obviously, one of the six first stage engines failed. And why he refused, the human factor or the technical part is guilty, this should be determined by the telemetry decryption. Within a few days, specialists will be clear what happened. "


    how are these "proofs"



    can prove that "the pins were hammered with a sledgehammer with the help of some mother"?
    and this after falling from such a height of the body weighing about 700 tons and burning heptyl in the amine ????
    Fortunately, the panel is made of aluminum alloy, quite soft.


    You as a person graduated from the international department of the journalism faculty of Moscow State University and the economics department of the University of Marxism-Leninism at the Moscow City Committee of the CPSU (note with honors)- "SHOULD" KNOW IT.
    Moreover, overseeing such important sectors as the military-industrial complex, defense orders, national defense, mobilization training, maritime policy, the nuclear and space industry, export control, military-technical cooperation, civil defense and border policy ...
    ========
    why all this farce with the collector that disappeared on legal leave and checking it with a lie detector ???
    1. Max
      Max 22 August 2013 21: 28
      +5
      Quote: Postman
      Obviously, one of the six first-stage engines failed.
      By telemetry, it should clearly be seen whether he refused or not. Maybe in order to stop the disputes lay out a telemeter. Old on the site and let everyone analyze it)))
      why all this farce with the collector that disappeared on legal leave and checking it with a lie detector ???
      Then if it were an engine - they would have found a missing engine collector))
      1. postman
        postman 22 August 2013 23: 50
        +1
        Quote: Max
        Telemetry should clearly be visible


        I generally keep quiet about it, as well as about test runs of the product in the MIC
        Quote: Max
        Maybe in order to stop the disputes lay out a telemeter.

        approx. telemetry is not from the word television, and putting it on a website or anywhere else .... is meaningless. Can you "read" telemetry from these satellites at these frequencies
        Frequency Catalog # / Satellite Name / last heard date dd / mm / yy
        2183.110 26857 ICO-F2 - numerous carriers at 150KHz spacing (23/11/08)
        2199.750 36797 AISSAT-1 - QPSK 256000bps FFT (EO portal link) (13/05/13)
        2201.000 36508 Cryosat-2 FFT (EO portal link) (10/04/10)
        2201.700 26959 BIRD-2 earth imaging (EO portal link) (02/11/07)
        2202.000 31115 Beidou-M1 Chinese navigation satellite (17/11/07)
        2202.500 19460 USA-32 FFT - not TX'ing all the time
        2202.530 21949 USA-81
        2203.200 24971 IRS-1D (EO portal link) (27/02/08)
        2203.200 23751 IRC-1C (EO portal link) (02/10/07)
        2203.200 25758 IRS-P4 (EO portal link) Oceansat-1 (05/10/07)
        2203.200 26957 TES (EO portal link) (29/10/07)
        2203.500 19460 USA-32 PSK - not TX'ing all the time
        2203.700 34903 STSS-ATRR (03-10-09)
        2203.750 38710 TET-1 BPSK 136880Bd, no viterbi, CCSDS frames 512bytes ID = 0x20A FFT (EO portal link) (14/05/13)
        2204.400 25940 CBERS 1 (EO portal link) (06/10/07)
        2204.400 32062 CBERS-2B (EO portal link) (28/03/2010)
        2204.400 27003 BADR-B (EO portal link) (28/10/07)
        2205.930 20436 Spot-2 (29/02/08)
        2206.100 37818 TacSat-4 (28/09/11 PJM)
        2207.487 25157 GFO
        2207.500 31140 NFIRE (29/10/07)
        Quote: Max
        would have found a missing engine collector))

        I'm not talking about a farce, to the fact that they wrote about the "collector who was on the run", but ONLY DECLARED_ "we didn’t see the investigator at SEPB AT ALL, but there is no UD"
    2. My address
      My address 22 August 2013 21: 55
      +4
      Dear Basil (postman)!
      I agree with you. The article describes the technological horror - a boy can come to the assembly from the side and want to go anywhere. Rather, hide another. But it remains a mess in Roscosmos.
      1. postman
        postman 23 August 2013 00: 48
        +5
        Hi
        Quote: My address
        The article describes technological horror


        mb BUT BROADCASTES HIS OUR GLAMOROUS ROGOZIN D.O. (probably registered in LJ)

        Quote: My address
        the assembly may come a boy from the side

        can not, otherwise in general (2nd department on what?)

        Quote: My address
        and spank what I want anywhere


        and it will not work: on the PV-301, on the bottom of the body there are 2e "pimples" (2a technological protrusions), on the mounting body there are 2e "dimples" (2e technological hollows). DAD MOM.
        You have to be insane to "fudge" the other way around
        there is nowhere to wave a sledgehammer ("pins hammered in")
        do not mix up the connectors ("reversed the polarity") - the diameters are different dad / mom are different

        HERE VERSIONS THAT ALL THREE!
        1. or sick (it is hard to believe what kind of OK is it on Khrunicheva ... and people around ??)
        2. Wrecking, American, Chinese enemy (believe even weaker, and where are the FSB, VK and others?)
        and?
        3. As the cops say, "LOOK FOR WHOM IS PROFITABLE!"
        3.1. Who insured? Who is the beneficiary of the insurance? How and to whom will insurance coverage be paid? How will it be cut? Who!
        (ZY RN then "ancient 2010-2011. And here 6 rubles - now, MONEY)
        3.2. "Was there a boy?" Glonas satellites or whatever, or maybe it would have turned out again, like with Phobos soil ... a scandal, a misunderstanding, etc.
        Mb immediately down 2 hares (3.1 + 3.2), one shot (accident)?
        Some scandals with GREAT thefts in GLONAS were ....
        Well no. I am of course "joking" so stupidly, I have paranoia .. belay
  16. My address
    My address 22 August 2013 21: 29
    +6
    But every fourth wall in the offices of managers of enterprises hung with certificates of conformity. Compliance with the highest quality requirements for products. The Khrunichev Center is no exception, see the Internet. Certificates are beautiful, in frames, with not letters. Audit centers from Austria to Canada issue these certificates easily, just pay the money and put some documents and pedestrian paths before each audit.

    A bit familiar with the necessary quality assurance in serious industries. And the article describes the horror. If everything is so, then the leaders of the space industry should sit for ten years. Is it that now you have to be afraid of launching any rocket?

    And a major official like Popovkin is not a sin to jail for his "achievements." Received a lot of money - be so kind to answer! They are interesting for us, senior officials, if you remove half, you will immediately notice the savings in the salary fund. We will not notice anything else. Well, theft will decrease.
    1. studentmati
      studentmati 23 August 2013 00: 53
      +3
      Quote: My address
      But every fourth wall in the offices of enterprise managers is hung with certificates of conformity.


      As well as portraits of major political figures of the party and government.
  17. sedoj
    sedoj 22 August 2013 21: 49
    +1
    I, as an amateur, are interested in one thing: after each accident, expensive equipment breaks down, which had to be put into space. Because of which, in principle, all this porridge is brewed. Is it really impossible during an emergency to shoot the warhead and then launch it by parachute? Or is it so complicated and expensive? In combat aircraft there are catapult seats for every fireman, why not do something similar on rockets?
    1. zennon
      zennon 22 August 2013 22: 11
      +1
      Is it really impossible during an emergency to shoot the warhead and then launch it by parachute? Or is it so complicated and expensive?

      What you write is not easy so complicated and expensiveand almost impossible! The payload mass, depending on the orbit, ranges from 3,7 to 23 tons! That would be to reserve complex systems at each launch
      emergency ejection, you will have to create a new carrier, one and a half times larger than this! At the cost of calculating? The cost of launching the current "Proton M" is 2,4 billion rubles! How much will the launch of what you write about?! Chimera .. ...
      1. postman
        postman 23 August 2013 00: 26
        +1
        Quote: zennon
        not just so complicated and expensive, but almost impossible

        Quote: zennon
        create a new medium one and a half times larger than this

        Quote: zennon
        ! How much will it cost to launch what you write about? Chimera ...

        ?????
        sorry, but you write nonsense.
        perhaps not expensive, long established, the cost of minuscule (compared with the pH) .. yes reduced (somewhat) PN

        Spacecraft emergency rescue system eg "11D855M"
        It is applied (used) for manned spacecraft, as well as for apparatuses with nuclear reactors (US-A) and nuclear warheads (R-36orb).
        SOYUZ-TMA Weight 7 kg (without emergency rescue system)


        DU SAS is installed on the Soyuz rocket in the assembly and test building

        SAS, which will be on "Orion"


        SAS Union weight (slightly more tones):
        thrust of solid propellant rocket engine 750 kN, mass of fuel charge 1 t + parachute system (?) + weight of structure and control system (??). LET WILL BE 1200kg to save 7170kg + 3 x120 kg (pilots). Tolerant.
        SO IT IS PEOPLE, but for soulless satellites and acceleration others, and landing different .. RESPONSIBILITY AND WEIGHT AND COST LESS
        The cost of her- "KOPIKA" (all 70s)

        Apollo (SC "APOLON") Pad Abort Test

        Note.
        Apollo spacecraft: Command compartment (without SAS) = 5500kg (without SAS and people)

        ======================
        And? And not any "chimera"
        1. zennon
          zennon 23 August 2013 01: 08
          0
          Dear POSTMAN! Who argues about capsules for people
          as well as for devices with nuclear reactors (US-A) and nuclear warheads (R-36orb).
          This has long been realized. Yes, I remember and saved the lives of astronauts when the Soyuz was launched. (I remember the video well, but I’m too lazy to look in the Internet).
          The question of the commercial feasibility of such systems with the launch reliability of Proton at 97%. All these cargoes are well insured. You don’t know that! The cost of insurance at the launch of Proton is 8-11% of the cost of the load. The Chimera is not technically, but economically. That's what we're talking about.
          1. postman
            postman 23 August 2013 04: 01
            0
            Quote: zennon
            with a launch reliability of "Proton" of 97%

            Well, the Soyuz launch vehicle has 99,2% - they use it.
            ==========
            Quote: zennon
            but economically. That's what it is about.

            then I did not understand.
            Although....
            depending on how much it will cost PN.


            Quote: zennon
            Yes, I remember and saved the lives of the astronauts when the Soyuz was launched (I remember the video well, but I’m too lazy to look in the Internet).

            For your information:
            once killed (officer of the starting team) Union 7K-OK No. 1
            And on the "Protons" SAS was used and saved the spacecraft
            Soyuz 7L-L1 (4 L); Soyuz 7K-L1; Soyuz 7K-L1 (Zond-5A); KK 7K-L1- VEZDE R "PROTON"
            Mon- was saved

            Quote: zennon
            ! The cost of insurance at the launch of "Proton" is 8-11% of the cost

            I honestly won’t take it, is it (I think more, tea is not a car)
            but 10% of 6 rubles, this is 000 rubles of premium (if 000%)

            COST OF PROTON START-UP somewhere around $ 70-100, maybe cheaper than CAC, without insurance, with a slightly lower MON?
            The prize was paid and bye-bye, it was gone, and CAC, with a reliability of 97%, will burn only at 98 starts
            98 х 600000000,00r = NEW PROTON PH + GLONASS Satellites (new)
            1. zennon
              zennon 23 August 2013 19: 29
              0
              Well, the Soyuz launch vehicle has 99,2% - they use it.

              That's right. They're using it. Only the mass of the Soyuz PN is up to 7,5 tons, while the Proton's weight is up to 23! How do you imagine that? And how much will it cost? EACH launch? No, insurance is better.
              1. postman
                postman 25 August 2013 05: 00
                0
                Quote: zennon
                , while "Proton" has up to 23!


                Well, not with Proton, to be precise, but with the payload that Proton puts into reference orbit (which is not always the case)
                Quote: zennon
                How do you imagine this? And

                It's simple.
                1. This is not a saving capsule, as you wrote (and САС), the САС can be mounted on anything
                2. look at the acceleration (overload) with which the proton of the satellite launches into orbit (therefore, including 23 tons) - there are no living people, and there are practically no restrictions
                3.SAC for people is limited in overload, for PN "not alive" these restrictions are not (except that the strength)
                4. The same applies to the parachute system (as an example, the discharge of cargo from the aircraft to the PS and parachutists - the difference is very significant) - ps will be easier, other things being equal)
                5. "inanimate" PN is not required SO FAR away from the emergency RN, the tea is not sugar, it will not melt (well, in the sense it will not burn)

                IMHO CAC for PN non-residential (which is not difficult to calculate) for 23 t, will weigh within 1500 kg. Little
                And the fact that SAS (itself) is cheap, I wrote.
                YES there is a minus- decrease in PN
  18. yurchen
    yurchen 22 August 2013 21: 52
    +3
    Incorrectly assembled sensor-complete nonsense. Such a complex device as a rocket is tested several times, all operating modes of individual systems are simulated separately and as a whole. You can’t just put the sensor on without checking its operation.
    1. onegin61
      onegin61 22 August 2013 23: 27
      0
      not imitating but precisely fulfilling the entire flight mission, only without engine operation
  19. michajlo
    michajlo 22 August 2013 22: 27
    +4
    Good evening everyone!

    Yes, the conclusions of the State Commission are read as a cheap detective Agatha Christie.

    Some young technician + senior foreman and an employee of the Quality Control Department, with the help of a hammer, "planted" the Sensors upside down (traces of the landing of the Sensors "vnatyag" - the commission found without difficulty) !?

    It’s even strange why the "pests" these same damn Sensors were NOT welded to the base so that they could not be re-installed correctly at the cosmodrome !?

    And nowhere is a word about WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DEAR SATELLITES in the warhead?

    And in general, WAS there was LOAD on Proton?
    Were these "GLONASS satellites" ready, were they on the launch vehicle, or was it the "end-in-the-water" method + "insured event" that was practiced and customary in Russia and the CIS?

    You can’t write off all accidents in a mess in the industry (naturally occurring after numerous REFORMS, TRANSFORMATIONS and PRIVATIZATIONS).
    1. castle
      castle 22 August 2013 22: 52
      +4
      I watch it and think: "Someone is giving minuses to thinking people? And without discussion. Isn't it a conspiracy to make everyone stupid? And who is not stupid, it means that the enemy of the people and Stalin should be on him!"
  20. castle
    castle 22 August 2013 22: 30
    +2
    They are looking for switchman.
  21. onegin61
    onegin61 22 August 2013 22: 43
    +4
    The reason for the emergency start is the incorrect installation of the angular velocity sensor along the yaw channel, made at the enterprise of the State Scientific and Technical Center named after MV Khrunichev. The applied methods and control methods during ground preparation and testing, the current design, technological and operational documentation do not allow to detect the incorrect installation of PV-301 sensors on the launch vehicle. God will stop LABUD, I’ll say a rocket with 28 years of experience: whatever device put on a rocket, a person puts, signs, after him at least three more than one rank higher than the other will check and sign, an execution error is eliminated. After that, a comprehensive technical check is carried out for operation, with the development of the entire flight task (including angles), the only thing that the engine does not work. Three devices are not installed correctly, come up with something believable.
  22. individual
    individual 22 August 2013 22: 47
    +1
    In one of his speeches, D. Rogozin emphasized that the equipment on the product is installed with a system of protection against fools.
    But it turns out that he was stronger than the defense. am
    In general, the feeling that the analysis was to determine the switchman and he was named in the person of a young college graduate !!!
    What kind of security system is this? If the contractor is able to disable the launch vehicle and throw 6 billion into the sand of the Baikonur steppes.
  23. onegin61
    onegin61 22 August 2013 22: 53
    +4
    Gentlemen, it’s enough for LABUD to drive, I’m a 28-year-old rocket scientist who says that to put any device on the rocket, a person puts it and signs it, they will check and sign for at least three more than one rank higher than the other, a performance error is excluded. After that, a comprehensive technical check is carried out for operation, with the development of the entire flight task (including angles), the only thing that the engine does not work. Three devices are not installed correctly, come up with something believable.
    1. onegin61
      onegin61 23 August 2013 00: 00
      +1
      Well, if only you want to put it wrong, that the rocket would fall and destroy what was in the head part (if there was something there)
  24. Dzhanych
    Dzhanych 22 August 2013 22: 55
    +2
    See for yourself - how many accidents of military equipment after the dispersal in 1994 of the Military missions (in design bureaus and factories) !!!
    Where is the quality control ??? OTK? - Yes, do not tell. - In one feeding trough!
    Return VP - Of course! That's just the preparation of a normal military representative requires at least five years!
    1. Alexander K.
      Alexander K. 23 August 2013 00: 36
      +1
      Do not listen to fools and provocateurs - nobody dispersed anyone. PZ, as it was under the USSR, it remains to this day. Under the thief Serdyukov, staff was cut and the subordination changed - there used to be separate PZ No. ... at the enterprises, now there are departments of a large industrial VP (which is probably not meaningless). Now there is talk of an expansion of the staff.
      The problem in relation to work. At all levels, including the EP. If you neglect your duties (for various reasons, for example, low salaries inadequately), there will be no result. That's all.
  25. Volkhov
    Volkhov 22 August 2013 22: 59
    +1
    The cause of the accident is geophysics, and it was not the collectors who could not physically rearrange the sensor that were guilty, but the generals who did not respond to proposals for monitoring potentials in the atmosphere. This is not the first accident for these physical reasons, but extremely interesting - it clearly demonstrated the principle of direct electrostatic guidance on a large object - well done.
    http://sinteh.info/?p=1960
    By reference, an article about the interceptor of comets with this principle of pointing normally - Roscosmos is not interested in it, but the demonstrator provided it for free - because of laziness and depression the author of his spaceport did not have it.
    Potential control - "Electro-forecast" and "Electro-forecast - 10" 08 and 10 years
    http://sinteh.info/?p=1992
    http://sinteh.info/?p=1979
    If you understand what is written about, then the search for a "switchman" is an obvious way out for the system - otherwise the work of millennia is under threat.
  26. studentmati
    studentmati 22 August 2013 23: 06
    +4
    Alarmingly, at what speed was the investigation carried out, the reasons and the culprits were found? The work went immediately according to one version. No other possible causes and work to investigate them has not been announced. One gets the feeling that the version with incorrect installation of sensors is a "blank" in case of another space accident for Russia ...
  27. onegin61
    onegin61 22 August 2013 23: 12
    +1
    They hang Ragozin on their ears and he believes everything, I don't know what kind of education he has, but it would be better if he went and led his Rodina party, it seems he did it better
    1. castle
      castle 22 August 2013 23: 33
      +1
      What kind of education !? I was told that in Moscow at the metro station you can buy any diploma or various other "crusts". Or as they say: "You will have such leaders as you deserve!" It's a pity!
      1. zennon
        zennon 22 August 2013 23: 57
        +2
        What education !? I was told ...

        I don’t know who told you what, but if you are talking about Dmitry Olegovich, then keep in mind that he has two higher educations, both with honors! He is a doctor of philosophical sciences. He speaks five languages ​​fluently. Considering your flag, you will be interested that and in Czech. His father is a lieutenant general, professor, doctor of technical sciences. Prior to retirement and retirement Head of the Department of Advanced Arms Systems and First Deputy Head of Armaments of the USSR Ministry of Defense!
        It's a pity!

        It's really a pity that you clog the forum with stories about buying executives
        any diploma or various other "crusts".

        Do you really think that you can be the Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in Brussels, the Chairman of the State Duma Committee on International Affairs, actually one of the top ten leaders of the country “buying crusts in the metro?” What are you doing here?
        1. Volkhov
          Volkhov 23 August 2013 00: 05
          +2
          Quote: zennon
          chief of the department of advanced weapons systems and first deputy chief of weapons of the USSR Ministry of Defense.

          So, after all, this topic has been completely and systematically failed - half a century behind the enemy, and in some forms - 70 years old. Made Russian Papuans.
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 23 August 2013 00: 09
            +1
            Quote: Volkhov
            So, after all, this topic has been completely and systematically failed - half a century behind the enemy, and in some forms - 70 years old. Made Russian Papuans.


            Tooting! It’s hard not to agree.
          2. zennon
            zennon 23 August 2013 00: 12
            0
            So, after all, this topic has been completely and systematically failed - half a century behind the enemy, and in some forms - 70 years old. Made Russian Papuans.

            According to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), from 1992 to 2009, Russia exported more than $ 78,7 billion worth of weapons (at constant 1990 prices). The average annual volume of arms exports of Russia is about $ 4,4 billion, but varies significantly from year to year: from $ 1,55 billion in 1994 (an absolute minimum) to $ 6,26 billion in 2004 (an absolute maximum). Russia's place in the list of world arms exporters: in 2001 and 2002 - the first, in 1994, 1997 and 1998 - the third, in all other years (as well as for the entire period from 1992 to 2009) - the second. Russia occupied the second place and from 2005 to 2009 - 24% of world exports (against 30% from the USA).
            Not bad for the Papuans? I don’t want to offend anyone, but Are you sane?
            1. studentmati
              studentmati 23 August 2013 00: 22
              +1
              Quote: zennon
              According to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), from 1992 to 2009, Russia exported more than $ 78,7 billion worth of weapons (at constant 1990 prices). The average annual volume of arms exports of Russia is about $ 4,4 billion, but varies significantly from year to year: from $ 1,55 billion in 1994 (an absolute minimum) to $ 6,26 billion in 2004 (an absolute maximum). Russia's place in the list of world arms exporters: in 2001 and 2002 - the first, in 1994, 1997 and 1998 - the third, in all other years (as well as for the entire period from 1992 to 2009) - the second. Russia occupied the second place and from 2005 to 2009 - 24% of world exports (against 30% from the USA).
              Not bad for the Papuans? I don’t want to offend anyone, but YOU ARE SUSTAINABLE?


              Advanced weapons systems are not exported. What is the share of "Proton" in the figures you indicated? I think that this figure is "zero". Proton does not participate in military exports.
              1. zennon
                zennon 23 August 2013 00: 37
                -1
                Proton does not participate in military exports.

                And what does Proton have to do with it? The question was about the "failed" topic of advanced weapons systems.
                Advanced weapons systems not exported

                Oleg Konstantinovich Rogozin, father of Dmitry Olegovich, headed the department of advanced weapons systems of the USSR Ministry of Defense! And the export of the last 20 years is the fruit of the development of what he directed. Is that clear?
                1. studentmati
                  studentmati 23 August 2013 00: 40
                  +2
                  Quote: zennon
                  It's clear?


                  Clear.
              2. Aljavad
                Aljavad 23 August 2013 01: 15
                0
                Proton is involved in commercial launches. It is equivalent. And is in demand. And his failure statistics are not bad.
            2. Volkhov
              Volkhov 23 August 2013 00: 43
              +1
              Quote: zennon
              Not bad for the Papuans? I don’t want to offend anyone, but YOU ARE SUSTAINABLE?

              It’s not bad for the Papuans - they were sold and presented with Russian mob reserves.
              It was written about backwardness from AN OPPONENT - the fleet, aviation, space are helpless and it will soon be difficult to drive the crew onto a submarine.
              1. zennon
                zennon 23 August 2013 01: 18
                -1
                fleet, aviation, space helpless

                Here's how? So explain how you can successfully sell "helpless" weapons? And they didn’t sell their mobilization reserves. The military-industrial complex plants are loaded for years to come!
          3. Aljavad
            Aljavad 23 August 2013 01: 12
            0
            But for some reason we are not with them, but they are buying weapons and military equipment from us.
        2. postman
          postman 23 August 2013 01: 22
          0
          Quote: zennon
          then keep in mind he has two higher educations


          the international branch of the journalism faculty of Moscow State University and the economics department of the University of Marxism-Leninism at the Moscow City Committee of the CPSU (note with honors)
          COOL "CONNECTED" WITH: Military-industrial complex, defense order, national defense, mobilization training, maritime policy, nuclear and rocket and space industry, export control, military-technical cooperation, civil defense and border policyYes?
          Quote: zennon
          His father is a lieutenant general

          And what does this have to do with it? The apple "rolled away" very far from the apple tree
          (Deputy Prime Minister Ivanov, who was not the current ... and his son (25 years old) - MEMBER of the board of the fiberboard, if he has not forgotten anything)

          Quote: zennon
          Do you really think that you can be the Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in Brussels

          When E.B.N. (peace be upon him) - EASY !!!!!!!

          Boris Abramovich Berezovsky (the same peace be upon him)
          JEWISH HAVING CITIZENSHIP OF ISRAEL
          -In 1996-1997 - Deputy Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation.
          -In 1998-1999 - Executive Secretary of the CIS.
          - It’s been a tight deal with GDP since 1991 and (SPEAK!) Promoted his appointment as director of the FSB and brought (SPEAK!) Him to power.
          So what?
          NOT THAT KOROCHES, COUNTRY TRADED, and money washed
          (In May 2006, Boris Berezovsky was detained at the airport in the Brazilian city of São Paulo and testified for several hours in connection with possible involvement in financial fraud in Brazil. Later, the Brazilian authorities brought charges against Berezovsky of money laundering using the Brazilian football club " Corinthians ")

          Although BAB is smarter than DOR

          (Since 1991 - corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, member of the International Scientific Society on Decision Theory, founder of the International Science Foundation.)
          and his education is more suitable

          Doctoral dissertation "Development of the theoretical foundations of the algorithm for the adoption of pre-project decisions and their application" in the specialty "Technical cybernetics and information theory."

          “Binary relations in multicriteria optimization” (M., 1981), “The task of the best choice” (M., 1984), “Multicriteria optimization: mathematical aspects” (M., 1989)
          1. zennon
            zennon 23 August 2013 01: 35
            -1
            When E.B.N. (peace be upon him) - EASY !!!!!!!

            Your will, h ... u write! Rogozin Dmitry Olegovich. Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in Brussels, Kingdom of Belgium
            January 9, 2008 - December 23, 2011
            Presidents: Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin
            Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev
            No one says that BAB was a fool. Why did you decide that Rogozin is not bad? He always studied well and really knows languages. And about a parent-family is a great thing, an excellent description. And by the way, you defend a doctoral dissertation in philosophy ...
            1. postman
              postman 23 August 2013 03: 38
              +3
              Quote: zennon
              x ... u write!

              which slogan is ..
              But I really made a mistake, everything from memory, I didn’t climb into Wiki.
              Danke Schoen, dass Sie meinen Fehler korrigiert haben.
              All the more so "politely" corrected.
              Precisely in 2009, Albania and Croatia were admitted to NATO, and in 2010 expanded the military airfield in Estonia (NATO since 2004), the decision on the Euro ABM,
              NATO base in Ulyanovsk?

              Well, Rogozin's success in NATO is "on the face"

              Quote: zennon
              Why did you decide that Rogozin is not bad?

              Is he "kinky"?

              WHAT DID HE DO SUCH SIGNIFICANT? LOW? ... well, besides doing LJ?
              And empty words (for the most part with a stink of stupidity, well, how about the accident)?
              Quote: zennon
              He always studied well and really knows the languages.

              1.Where and WHAT he studied, I listed above
              2. Well, I know two foreign ones, my eldest daughter graduated with a gold medal, studies at a university abroad (and I hope she will be in another), knows perfectly: English, German, Finnish, Russian, collection
              Learn Spanish.
              WHAT'S NEXT? Understand in the issues described in the article she will not.
              Quote: zennon
              And about the parent-family is a great thing, an excellent characteristic

              And what does this have to do with your position?
              "contributed" to your career? Oppositionist pocket politician with a license from the Kremlin?
              Quote: zennon
              And by the way, do you defend a doctoral dissertation in philosophy ...

              And by the way, why do I need me, Ph.D. enough, but according to Marcist-Leninist philosophy I had 3 and 4 (per semester).
              DO NOT PROTECT me. You killed me on the spot ... philosophy.
              True, there is one thing but

              Karl Marx and Nikolai Copernicus ... Philosophers both.
              “The Russian question and its impact on national and international security”
              ?
              "The problems of national security of Russia at the turn of the XXI century."
              ??
              You read it at your leisure:

              ===========
              for a Ph.D. in philosophy is much more interesting:
              http://disser.h10.ru/avtoref.html
              1. zennon
                zennon 23 August 2013 19: 50
                -1
                Danke Schoen, dass Sie meinen Fehler korrigiert haben.

                Nicht der Rede Wert.
                And what does this have to do with your position?

                The most direct. The whole life of his son cooked in advanced weapons systems. He thinks he knows more about them than you and I do.
                DO NOT PROTECT me. You killed me on the spot ... philosophy.

                You feel like a person is not very stupid. I think it’s obvious to you that the Ph.D. is a priori a wonderful analyst. He perfectly expresses his thoughts and tracks cause-effect relationships. No?
                me Ph.D. enough

                And here is respect. hi I am an ordinary engineer. Polytech, "automatics and telemechanics". To finish about Rogozin, I’m not that for him. There are many testimonies that speak of not the best human qualities of him. Arrogant, for example. But when they talk about an absolutely well-educated person :
                any diploma or various other "crusts".

                it becomes disgusting.
      2. poquello
        poquello 23 August 2013 00: 55
        +4
        Quote: hrad
        What an education !? I was told that in Moscow at the metro station you can buy yourself any diploma or different

        And what do the bears in the cities live said? They told the truth - bears live in zoos. And you can buy a diploma - you cannot get a decent job with him right now, check your diplomas in OK.
  28. castle
    castle 22 August 2013 23: 19
    +4
    And it’s sad and painful, but it seems that there is something in Mr. Michael’s version. God forbid we make a mistake in this story
  29. grafrozow
    grafrozow 22 August 2013 23: 28
    +2
    Another noodle, I agree, and while WE are hawking it, they will offer it to us. The waiter is half a borsch and 12 spoons.
  30. onegin61
    onegin61 23 August 2013 00: 08
    +2
    the devices were not installed as they should, but they were set incorrectly by force, which means that it was necessary to do this so that the flight did not go normally and the "payload" (and was it) burned out
    1. studentmati
      studentmati 23 August 2013 00: 12
      +2
      Quote: Onegin61
      the devices were not installed as they should, but they were set incorrectly by force, which means that it was necessary to do this so that the flight did not go normally and the "payload" (and was it) burned out


      The version is interesting, but the rocket was assembled in 2010 and it was not known for what load it was intended.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. studentmati
          studentmati 23 August 2013 00: 26
          +1
          Quote: Onegin61
          I’m a rocket launcher and I know that the instruments can be changed at any stage of preparation of the rocket for its intended use, but if you want to put it in the wrong direction, the rocket will fall and destroy what’s in the warhead (if there was something)


          In your words, is this a direct diversion?
        2. onegin61
          onegin61 23 August 2013 00: 31
          +1
          I’m a rocket launcher and I know that the instruments can be changed at any stage in preparing the rocket for its intended use, but if you want to put it in the wrong direction, the rocket will fall and destroy what’s in the warhead (if there was something). And there is such a concept — emergency rocket detonation, it can be automatic if the rocket deviates from a given path, but after the personnel protection unit is turned off.
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 23 August 2013 00: 35
            +2
            Quote: Onegin61
            I’m a rocket launcher and I know that the instruments can be changed at any stage in preparing the rocket for its intended use, but if you want to put it in the wrong direction, the rocket will fall and destroy what’s in the warhead (if there was something). And there is such a concept — emergency rocket detonation, it can be automatic if the rocket deviates from a given path, but after the personnel protection unit is turned off.


            So, do you still think: sabotage or emergency disruption?
            1. onegin61
              onegin61 23 August 2013 00: 41
              +2
              I think that someone really needed the rocket to burn out, and the rest is a matter of technology, they themselves agreed.
              1. studentmati
                studentmati 23 August 2013 00: 44
                +3
                Quote: Onegin61
                I think that someone really needed the rocket to burn out, and the rest is a matter of technology, they themselves agreed.


                Now your idea is completely clear to me. It is a possible development of events.
  31. Aljavad
    Aljavad 23 August 2013 00: 10
    +2
    7 minuses surprise. The author misinterpreted the words of experts? Or is it not the downside of the author? Or did it just take evil? (rhetorical questions)
    I, too, take evil that the industry, which worked like a clock in decline, that the 90s "washed" or rather "knocked out" a whole generation, and remained "old and small". But minus stories is stupid, as it is stupid to show a cookie to the mirror. We have what we have and God grant good luck to those who are trying to do at least something, and not just shout that everything is lost.
  32. arnulla
    arnulla 23 August 2013 00: 53
    +2
    For..al already this mess. Can't we really do without mass executions? ...
    1. Aljavad
      Aljavad 23 August 2013 01: 22
      0
      Here we are trying. And the most mentioned president regularly rakes back, either for the lack of executions and repressions, or for the authoritarian style of leadership and repression of the opposition.
  33. sergeschern
    sergeschern 23 August 2013 01: 04
    +1
    Popovkin's opus is nonsense. If there are guide pins, then the assemblers are clearly to blame, no matter what they say! What do designers and technologists have to do with it? "Forcibly" pull with nuts, so that "traces of pins" can only be people with hands out of their ass!
  34. tanit
    tanit 23 August 2013 05: 11
    +1
    By the way, work on the Proton resumed. We look forward to September 15th.
  35. taseka
    taseka 23 August 2013 06: 30
    +2
    "and briefly name the causes of the accident" - return the USSR curriculum to the school, otherwise everyone will end up!
    1. postman
      postman 23 August 2013 12: 35
      0
      Quote: taseka
      return to the school the curriculum of the USSR, otherwise they all fall!


      The modern school curriculum (well, except for life safety) is more serious than the one in the USSR.
      I tell you, as "passing" it for the second time

      RETURN OVER VET SYSTEM- Professional Technical
      No hands, only managers
  36. My address
    My address 23 August 2013 07: 12
    +3
    In the comments, the Postman (Vasily) suggests about the man-made accidents.

    And it is reasoned and competently. In the official version I can not believe. There can not be such a blatant sloppy type of tightening the screws with a sledgehammer. It can not be both in terms of technology to ensure the assembly, and too blatantly mess. And the Postman offers a logical hypothesis. Teachers and life taught me that the most unbelievable hypothesis explaining known facts must be recognized as a theory.

    Please read the Postman.
    1. postman
      postman 23 August 2013 12: 28
      +1
      Quote: My address
      Please read the Postman.

      Hi Alexander
      no matter how, I was not blamed for these theories (Of course, not Navalny and Khodorkovsky, this option cannot be realized: I wasn’t, I wasn’t, I don’t have sad ), in transferring secret information to Honduras, let's say ...
      True, my admission ended a long time ago ..
      ==============
      a joke of course. But seriously 6 if there are no objective reasons, and there is a benefit (someone else) - LOOKING FOR SUBJECT (s) of interest
  37. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 23 August 2013 07: 16
    +4
    Nothing has changed in the country since the regime changed: the switchman is always in disguise! Well, how can you take the real culprits for the causal place, because they are their own and they aren’t losing theirs? And in general, it was correctly noticed about the presence of satellites: was there a boy? Many questions for the FSB!
  38. slaventi
    slaventi 23 August 2013 07: 26
    -1

    For some reason, the PROTONS fall precisely when the GLONAS satellites are launched.
  39. redcod
    redcod 23 August 2013 07: 53
    0
    Residents of the village bordering Baikonur complain that after the crash of "Proton" they were never examined




    Officials hide the scale of the disaster! Such a loud statement is made by residents of the village of Akai, which is located just a few kilometers from the Baikonur Cosmodrome. The villagers claim that after the fall of the Proton launch vehicle, unexplained ailments began to torment them, but there was no one to complain. Officials during this time allegedly never visited the village, and it seems that there have never been any doctors here, the KTK television channel reports.

    Residents of Akai village are not able to restrain emotions. The villagers no longer like the proximity to the Baikonur Cosmodrome. In the aul they say, since the Proton rocket carrier fell they were tormented by constant headaches and nausea. True, there is no one to complain to the villagers. According to the villagers, after the accident at Baikonur, officials did not even appear here.

    Berik Seitekov, a resident of s. Akai of Kyzylorda region:

    - Kazakhstan forgot about us. They do not know what Toretam and Akai are. Perhaps management is more comfortable. We were simply forgotten.

    There are no doctors in Akai either. The only clinic is located in the neighboring village of Toretam, but there are no narrow specialists there. Meanwhile, the villagers fear for the health of children. They are sure that the fall of "Proton" cannot pass without a trace and sooner or later the accident at Baikonur will make itself felt.

    Talgat Zhusup, Chairman of the Public Union "Trade Union of Workers of the Space Industry of the Republic of Kazakhstan":

    -Kazakhstan side ... they simply do not have equipment to study the composition of heptyl in the environment. Even when there was an explosion, the Russian side officially stated that 7000 times. The Kazakh side lowered this figure to 3000. And then she said in general: we have it in Sochi.

    High-ranking officials nevertheless expressed their concern about the health of the inhabitants of the villages nearby Baikonur. They even talked about the possible payment of compensation to all the victims. If they are, of course, found.

    Two months will soon pass from the moment of the fall of the ill-fated Proton. Baikonur experts say that the villagers are outraged for no reason. They say that by this time they had already carried out two stages of detoxification in the territory of the fall of the launch vehicle. And according to them, nothing threatens the inhabitants of Akai.

    Andrei Popov, deputy Chief Medical Officer of the Baikonur complex:

    - In the villages of Toretam and Akai, exceeding the level of maximum permissible concentration in the air, in drinking water and from the Syr Darya. We did not find excess MPC for heptyl.

    Meanwhile, Akai residents want to move from their native village. They do not trust the conclusions of experts. True, while they cannot do it on their own, there is no money.
  40. Bort radist
    Bort radist 23 August 2013 08: 00
    +1
    "by the representative offices (VP) of the Ministry of Defense. Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center, together with FSUE NPTSAP" PO KORPUS ", to change the design of the PV-301 device case and the bracket in order to prevent their incorrect installation. Enter photo and video recording of the device installation on the bracket, as well as the docking of the connectors of the on-board cable network. " You can’t put an ordinary USB flash drive into the connector with a rotation of 180, since the 40s it’s impossible to stick a radio lamp incorrectly. This is nonsense in which it is impossible to believe even incompetent people.
    1. tanit
      tanit 23 August 2013 20: 20
      0
      Everything is true, and no one denies the version with diversion. But now why did everyone suddenly think that the official version is true? No. Crap for prying ears. And what we’ll actually learn (if anyone survives from us) in 50 years.
  41. tanit
    tanit 23 August 2013 20: 30
    0
    But imagine. Well, at least for a second - imagine .... I am the enemy. I sabotage GLONaS. I am such a fierce enemy that I have been sabotaging since 1982.) The first launch of GLONAS. My actions are approximately the same (I’m a smart enemy, I still have to sabotage and sabotage) - I left the RN’s table (and the rocket should leave — I’m the enemy, not an unreasonable person, why should I bring in a scandal) The Breeze type acceleration unit should also work. And only then ... And then, wrought-iron satellites will fall into the sea of ​​hounds ....
    What is it all about? And besides, personally I do not know which is "better" - to be a drunken moron or a traitor. Both should be punished by the highest measure of social protection. A drunken paw that has gone through hundreds of sober hands - and we don't need enemies either.
  42. tanit
    tanit 23 August 2013 20: 34
    0
    By the way, today the brown "smoke" has been dispensed. On Monday, they will begin to dose another shade of brown "smoke".
  43. tanit
    tanit 23 August 2013 20: 45
    0
    And if schizophrenia is so necessary - so please. Most likely the taxiing metal did not comply with GOST. Tests at the factory and prelaunch-sustained, but for more lacked strength. Who is the enemy? They will figure it out, it somehow seems to me, and without Internet fighters. And the real reason is who the hell is voicing. That is, they will be voiced - but to our (your) grandchildren.