Military Review

68 years since the bombing of Hiroshima

571
Today, 68 is over the years when the American “Little Boy” bomb fell on Hiroshima, equivalent to about 18 kilotons of trotyl (according to some estimates, to 20 kilotons). The stated goal of the US atomic attack was to “accelerate Japan’s surrender”. On August 9, the next atomic bomb, Fat Man, fell on the city of Nagasaki. According to various sources, up to 160 thousand people died in the explosion and in the coming weeks after it in Hiroshima, and up to 80 thousand in Nagasaki. Over time, by the 1950 year, the number of deaths exceeded 400 thousands. So far in Japan, more than 200 of thousands of people (“Hibakusha”) suffer from the effects of radioactive contamination - those who were born from irradiated parents.




At eight o'clock in the morning local time in Hiroshima began and after forty-five minutes the memorable events ended. In 8 hours 15 minutes, notes correspondent RIA "Novosti" Ekaterina Plyasunkova, - at the very time when a bomb with a uranium charge was dropped on Hiroshima, - the sounds of a memorial bell swept through the World Park, and then a minute of silence fell.

Kazumi Matsui, the mayor of Hiroshima, read the “Declaration of Peace” - a traditional annual (since 1947 of the year) presentation devoted primarily to nuclear disarmament.

Representatives of 153 countries (Russia, USA, Israel, Great Britain, France, India, Pakistan, etc.) received invitations to participate in the ceremony.

History kept the details of the day of August 6 1945.

The bombing was supposed to start earlier on Truman’s order - from August 3, but the pilots were hampered by poor visibility: dense clouds covered the sky over the intended targets, including Hiroshima, Kokura and Nagasaki. Hiroshima was the primary and primary goal. At that time, 250.000 people lived in the city. The clouds over Kokura and Nagasaki remained on August 6, but the sky over Hiroshima cleared. The pilot of one of the three reconnaissance aircraft sent a B-29 bomber under the command of Colonel Tibbets a signal: "Bomb the first target."

The Japanese did not intercept the American plane. About his terrible stuffing they could not know. Initially, an air-raid was announced, and then, when a small number of American planes arrived, it became clear that the alarm was lifted. On the radio, residents were advised to go to the bomb shelters.

In the morning, 8.15 from a height of 9,4 km bomber dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima. All living things — people, birds, animals — close to the epicenter, burned down instantly. Almost all people within a radius of eight hundred meters from the explosion died in the next few minutes. Of these, no more than 1 / 10 survived after the explosion. For those who were not killed by the explosion, who was bypassed by the blast wave and spared the tornado that had begun, a deadly irradiation began ...

At the Flame of Peace Monument in Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park 1 in August 1964, an eternal flame was lit in honor of the victims of atomic bombing. According to the plan of its creators, it will burn until that time “until all the atomic weapon Earth will not disappear forever. ”

Japan is seeking the elimination of nuclear weapons around the world. This was announced today by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe during a speech at a memorial ceremony in Hiroshima.

"Japan is the only country in the world that survived the nuclear bombardment," quotes him. correspondent ITAR-TASS Yaroslav Makarov. “We have a special responsibility, and therefore we will continue to ensure that there are no more nuclear weapons in this world.”

The head of the Japanese government reaffirmed Tokyo’s commitment to the three nuclear-free principles: not to have, not to produce and not to bring nuclear weapons into its territory.

Hiroshima Mayor Kazumi Matsui said he was grieving for the victims of 6 August 1945 bombing and stressed the need for all countries to “turn to the system of security guarantees based on the principles of dialogue and trust.” At the same time, Matsui expressed concern about the cooperation of Japan and India in the field of peaceful nuclear energy. Even if this agreement "provides for the economic cooperation of states, it is likely that it prevents the complete abandonment of nuclear weapons."

"Asian Reporter" citing NHK, reports that about 50 thousands of people participated in the morning ceremony at the Peace Memorial Park. A list of more than 286 thousands of people killed in the atomic bombing was presented to the cenotaph. The list includes 6 names of thousands of people who died or whose death was confirmed last year.

Mayor Kazumi Matsui called the atomic bomb the most inhuman weapon on the planet and absolute evil. In a message to world leaders, the mayor asked them: “How long will you be held captive by mistrust and enmity? Do you really believe that you can maintain national security while saber-rattling? ”

Peace be upon the dead.

Review prepared by Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
Photos used:
AP Photo / Shizuo Kambayashi
571 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 6 August 2013 09: 17
    33
    Akiro Takakura ("300 meters from epicenter"): "Three colors for me characterize the day the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima: black, red and brown. Black, because the explosion cut off the sunlight and plunged the world into darkness. Red was the color blood flowing from wounded and broken people. It was also the color of the fires that burned everything in the city. Brown was the color of burnt skin falling off the body, exposed to the light radiation from the explosion. "
    Peace be upon the dead ...
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 August 2013 10: 55
      44
      Three colors characterize for me the day when the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima: black, red and brown. Black because the explosion cut off sunlight and plunged the world into darkness. Red was the color of blood flowing from wounded and broken people. He was also the color of the fires that burned everything in the city. Brown was the color of burnt, falling off skin, exposed to light from the explosion

      And how does it seem to him that those kids thought that the valiant Japanese military had been carved into drugs for educational institutions in Japan? With the full support of the population.

      Hiroshima and Nagasaki are only retribution. And not the fact that enough. For the atrocities that the Japanese did.
      Only one figure: 350 to 500 thousand people died in Nanjing during a planned multi-day massacre
      1. 12345
        12345 6 August 2013 11: 30
        10
        Quote: Spade
        ... what did those kids think that the valiant Japanese military were carving for drugs for educational institutions in Japan? With the full support of the population.

        Hiroshima and Nagasaki are only retribution. And not the fact that enough ...



        Are we Jewish? Strictly according to the "scripture": "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"?

        That is, if nonhumans will commit atrocities, then you are ready, but already as a "noble" act of revenge, also "butcher children"?
        In Israel, after all - this is what they do when they demolish multi-storey buildings with alleged (!) Terrorists by rocket and bomb strikes. Israel has been sitting for a lot, including IT, for a year now, according to Yermolk itself, in a very foul-smelling substance.

        Because:

        "Strength with unrighteousness
        Does not get along
        The victim is not true
        Not called ... "© (N.A. Nekrasov)

        For me personally, the symbol of Truth is the Soldier in Treptower Park.

        Well, and the United States is a cannibalistic country, not because only cannibals live there, but because they rule this country according to cannibal ideology. Trying hard to disguise himself as "white and fluffy".
        Do you remember WHOSE "lobby" rules THERE? Huh? That's it - and that's it ...

        "You will know them by their fruits.
        Are they harvested from blackthorn
        grapes, or from a burdock
        figs? … "© (Matthew 7:20).
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 August 2013 11: 31
          11
          Quote: 12345
          Are we Jewish? Strictly according to the "scripture": "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"?

          Yes. And you turn the other cheek as much as you like. In words.
          1. Iraclius
            Iraclius 6 August 2013 11: 42
            11
            LopatovIn my opinion this is wrong.
            I agree with you that there are things that cannot be forgiven and forgotten. But it is also impossible to become like wild animals. Otherwise, we do not have the right to be called people.
            There is some kind of line that cannot be crossed.
            When the Japanese sank an American gunboat in Nanjing, the United States was silent in a rag, but then decided to harness themselves to China? Do you yourself believe in that?
            When did the USA harness for someone there besides itself?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 August 2013 12: 02
              10
              It was not after Nanking that the Americans stopped considering the Japanese people. And after the operations to exterminate the Chinese population in Singapore and the Philippines, the shooting of the destroyer Edsall, the Baatan death march, the massacre in Manila and the legalization of cannibalism in New Guinea. That is, when it affected them and their allies.
              1. Iraclius
                Iraclius 6 August 2013 12: 06
                +3
                Does it change anything?
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 6 August 2013 12: 13
                  +3
                  Not. The Japanese got what they deserve.
                  1. alone
                    alone 6 August 2013 12: 20
                    12
                    shovels prav.population of Germany and Japan deserved what happened to them. this population chose their grief rulers and greeted them when she went to kill and destroy other countries. choosing such a population subscribed to any crimes of these monsters. the population is also responsible for the camps, for experiments on people. we didn’t go to war with them, they came to us to war. and got what we deserved
                    1. saturn.mmm
                      saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 12: 42
                      +8
                      Quote: lonely
                      shovels prav.population of Germany and Japan deserved what happened to them. this population chose their grief rulers and greeted them

                      The emperor in Japan is hereditary, the people do not choose him.
                      I completely agree with the comment below, the Americans did not have any special reasons to burn 100000 civilians, it was a showpiece for the USSR.
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 6 August 2013 13: 41
                        +5
                        And the government is not hereditary. There was no cry of protest against the emperor. There was unanimous support.
                      2. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 15: 38
                        +2
                        Quote: Pimply
                        And the government is not hereditary.

                        Until 1947 year.
                        Formally, the Emperor had almost unlimited rights. First of all, he was the supreme power as the head of state. He had the right to exercise legislative power in accordance with the Imperial Parliament, approving laws and enforcing them or imposing an absolute veto. In addition, he had the right to convene and dissolve the Chamber of Deputies, as well as to issue decrees that had the force of law, subject to their approval at the next session of Parliament. He could also establish the organization of various branches of state administration, appoint and dismiss all civil and military ranks, and was the supreme commander of the army and navy.
                        However, as often happens in absolute and dualistic monarchies (and Japan was a dualistic monarchy under the Constitution of 1889), several people actually led the state behind the Emperor. This is the so-called genro (the environment of the Emperor, mostly immigrants from the feudal military) and the Privy Council, appointed by the Emperor mainly from among the highest bureaucracy.

                        Quote: Pimply
                        There was unanimous support.

                        Yes, because everyone who did not agree was simply killed.
                        Quote: Pimply
                        There was no cry of protest against the emperor

                        And so, on the wings of the B-29, the Americans brought 20 kilotons of democracy to Japan, 2 times.
                      3. Pimply
                        Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 06
                        0
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        And so, on the wings of the B-29, the Americans brought 20 kilotons of democracy to Japan, 2 times.

                        Yes, absolutely right. And this was a perfectly logical act for its time.
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Yes, because everyone who did not agree was simply killed.

                        This usually did not stop revolutions from happening. In Japan there were not even attempts, unlike Germany.
                      4. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 6 August 2013 17: 04
                        +5
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Yes, absolutely right. And this was a perfectly logical act for its time.


                        This is ordinary fascism and I did not expect it from you.

                        The logical act of that time was the seizure of Taiwan in the 1944 year and, as a result, the end of the war in the near future on the TTD, rather than indulging the ambitions of MacArthur's mediocrity.
                        The fate of the two Japanese cities was decided by blackmail by Roosevelt McArthur, who said that if he was not allowed to fulfill his promise and return to the Philippines with fanfare, he would resign and go to the presidential election. Roosevelt could not allow such a mediocrity to decide the fate of the military-political capital accumulated by the United States during the war during the post-war peace arrangement.
                        In and toga cretin Truman ordered to drop bombs.

                        There is no logic here like in a hangover delirium --- a bulldog fight under the carpet in the White House led to mass killings.
                      5. Pimply
                        Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 23
                        +2
                        You are trying to judge the Second World standards of today's time and opportunities. It is not right.

                        Japan had to be defeated - how Germany had to be defeated, although it was possible to freeze on its border. Enemies smash, so that he does not raise his head. And for a long time I would not think about it.

                        Yes, the deaths of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are a tragedy. But the death of the civilian population in China - no? And many more people died there.

                        You can certainly be beautiful pacifists - only reality shows that this does not work. The situation was logical - and required a logical and hard ending. I am very sorry for the dead Japanese. But they could die many times more.
                      6. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 6 August 2013 18: 26
                        +3
                        Quote: Pimply
                        You are trying to judge the Second World standards of today's time and opportunities. It is not right.


                        I don’t do that.

                        Quote: Pimply
                        Japan had to be defeated - how Germany had to be defeated, although it was possible to freeze on its border. Enemies smash, so that he does not raise his head. And for a long time I would not think about it.


                        One more time:
                        - In the summer of 1944, the seizure of Taiwan, proposed by Admiral Nimitz, cut ALL strategic communications between Japan and the occupied territories. In fact, after the seizure of Saipan, the fate of Japan was a foregone conclusion, since its entire territory was within the radius of action of the "super-fortresses" thrown to this island. In order to erase Japan into dust, neither the island of Luzon nor Taiwan was needed - the same bombings as in Europe would have done their job, and with less losses, since Japan had anti-German air defense, but "Zero" at working height " twenty nines "lose their maneuverability. The capture of Luzon and Taiwan predetermined Japan's agony from lack of fuel, ammunition, army (which was on the continent), etc. and so on - the sacrifices of American soldiers and sailors were not needed to please the ambitions of MacArthur's mediocrity.
                        Put the US Nimitz plan into action Japan would fall by the end of the 1944 of the beginning of the 45 of the year.
                        Against this background, jumping from island to island, the capture of the Philippines is utter stupidity, and the nuclear bombing of Japanese cities is a war crime.
                    2. Iraclius
                      Iraclius 6 August 2013 19: 16
                      +3
                      Fight-fight, but decent and just brave Americans had the honesty to admit. Like Admiral W. Lehi:
                      My feeling was that when we became the first to use it [atomic weapons], we adopted the ethical standards of medieval barbarians. I was not taught to wage wars in this manner, and wars cannot be won by the destruction of women and children.

                      But Pupyrchaty, of course, knows better ...
                    3. Karlsonn
                      Karlsonn 6 August 2013 22: 01
                      +4
                      Iraclius hi

                      Looking at how you courageously fight the "justifiers" of war crimes and bestial methods of warfare, I can't resist:

                      Quote: Iraclius
                      Fight-fight, but decent and just brave Americans had the honesty to admit. Like Admiral W. Lehi


                      The Americans also had a man like - Lockwood C. (1890-1967).
                      Vice Admiral C.E. Lockwood, who commanded the submarine forces of the US Pacific Fleet during World War II, is considered the best American submariner in the United States. From February 1941 to March 1942, Lockwood was naval attaché in Great Britain, from May 1942 he was appointed commander of the submarine in the southeastern part of the Pacific Ocean, in February of the 43rd he was promoted to rear admiral and was appointed commander of the submarine forces of the Pacific US Navy instead of the deceased Vice Admiral Thomas England, in which position he remained until September 1945, having achieved significant success - American boats drowned 5,6 million brt., including 1100 merchant ships and over 200 warships. On September 1, 1945, Vice Admiral (from September 1943) Lockwood, along with his direct superior, Admiral Nimitz, accepted the Japanese surrender aboard the battleship Missouri. In 1947 Lockwood retired, died 1967.

                      In addition to his feats of arms, he is also famous for the following:

                      When the commander of the Kriegsmarine, Karl Dönitz, was tried in Nuremberg, Charles Lockwood sent an official telegram addressed to the tribunal, demanding that he be brought to court with the wording “for violation of prize law conventions” and he, too, because the order received by American submariners “wage unlimited underwater war” was different from orders The mistress who gave them in German, only in language - English. A little later, he was supported in writing by Admiral Chester Nimitz, commander of the US Pacific Fleet. As a result, Dönitz was not hanged, but escaped with 10 years in prison.

                      If you have not read his memoirs - I recommend, in electronic form ---

                      http://militera.lib.ru/memo/usa/lockwood/index.html

                      Well, in humanity there is an even more advantageous option, where the memoirs of Charles Lockwood and M. Hashimoto, the commander of a Japanese submarine that sank the American cruiser Indianapolis, are combined in one book.

                      Charles Lockwood, Motitsura Hashimoto.
                      "Submarine Warfare in the Pacific: Drown Them All. Drowned".

                      Collection of memories. - Compilation and introduction by A.G. Sick. - M .: AST, 2001 - 637 p.: Ill. - (Series “Military Historical Library”) - ISBN 5-17-008624-5.

                      hi
                    4. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 6 August 2013 22: 12
                      +2
                      I welcome Alexei. I want to clarify what the Sea Prize Law means, in terms of submarines: The rules of the naval war are governed by the Hague Convention on Certain Restrictions on the Use of the Capture Right in the Sea War of 1907, the Convention on the Setting of Submarines Automatically Exploding from Contact mines ”of 1907,“ The Hague Convention on the Rights and Obligations of Neutral Powers in the event of a naval war ”of 1907 and others, such as the“ Rules on the Operation of Submarines in Relation to Merchant Vessels in Time of War ”of 1936 (Appendix to the London Protocol).
                      The rules equate submarines in compliance with international law with surface ships. When meeting with them, merchant ships on the command of a warship should stop. In case of refusal and resistance, the merchant ship may be sunk. Passengers and crews, as well as ship documents, must be pre-delivered to a safe place (to land, boats or other ships)
                    5. Karlsonn
                      Karlsonn 7 August 2013 04: 07
                      0
                      Alex 241 hi Greetings friend!

                      Quote: Alex 241
                      . I want to clarify what the Maritime Prize Law means, with regard to submarines: The rules for naval warfare are governed by the Hague Convention on Certain Restrictions on the Use of the Capture Right in Naval War of 1907 of the year,


                      After the Tallinn crossing - Maritime law has lost legitimacy.
                2. Pimply
                  Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 05
                  0
                  Did you notice that all generals write this AFTER the war? Because during the war they find it acceptable. War has other laws. Another way of thinking. Get into the war - and you will understand everything. She even one day will completely change your worldview. And it often gives rise to both extreme militarists and radical pacifists. War changes people. And always - in different ways.
                3. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 7 August 2013 04: 17
                  +1
                  Quote: Pimply
                  Did you notice that all generals write this AFTER the war?


                  And really, why do not generals and admirals publish their memoirs during the war, such as a summary of the Sovinforburo?

                  Quote: Pimply
                  Because during the war they find it acceptable.


                  My relatives were burned alive, nonhumans - guided by the principles that you proclaim.

                  Quote: Pimply
                  War has other laws. Another way of thinking. Get to the war - and you will understand everything.


                  Yeah, when such a frostbitten ghoul like me begins to cut off the heads of your loved ones, guided by personal revenge, what do you say? Like he-I had a right?

                  Quote: Pimply
                  She even one day will completely change your worldview. And it often gives rise to both extreme militarists and radical pacifists. War changes people. And always - in different ways.


                  So for sure - at New Nuremberg I will declare that I was in a state of passion and only carried out orders - cutting out your family and loved ones. wink
                4. Pimply
                  Pimply 7 August 2013 13: 32
                  0
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  My relatives were burned alive, nonhumans - guided by the principles that you proclaim.

                  Ah, go on. Strike yourself in the chest, accuse me of cannibalism in righteous anger, that I drink the blood of children, well, or something else - whatever comes to your mind there.

                  The corpse of a child is always the corpse of a child. For some reason, you don’t make cries for Chinese children killed by the Japanese, you do not make cries for German children (well, or Afghan children) killed by Soviet soldiers. You make a cry because the bomb was dropped by the Americans. I don’t need false tantrums here, it’s funny for me to look at you.

                  The invasion of land forces in Japan, based on the battle for Okinawa, would lead to many times more casualties among the civilian population.
                  You, due to your lack of experience, or your false humanism, do not understand this. You have never fought in urban battles. Let's be easier - you did not fight. Therefore, now you are arranging this suffering concert here. Go ahead, sing.

                  Just to begin, cry for the children killed in Berlin or the mountains of Afghanistan. During the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan, for example, up to 2 million people were killed. Are you ready to cry for them?
  2. alone
    alone 6 August 2013 23: 55
    0
    the emperor there is a symbol of power. from Lenin in the mausoleum there is more sense than from the emperor
  3. Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 00: 01
    +1
    The emperor there is a living God and his death - the greatest tragedy for the people! Poor you know the religion of the Islands.
  4. Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 7 August 2013 04: 23
    +1
    Quote: Iraclius
    The emperor there is a living God and his death - the greatest tragedy for the people! Poor you know the religion of the Islands


    Andrei people do not understand that there was a conflict of civilizations on the TTD.
    And if for the Americans unconditional surrender was a political event, for the Japanese it meant the complete extermination of the nation.
    The trial and execution of the Emperor, for the Japanese, meant a prelude to the destruction of ALL Japanese, it was for this that the "divine wind" was an honor, and not fanaticism as the West describes.
  5. SASCHAmIXEEW
    SASCHAmIXEEW 7 August 2013 18: 08
    0
    And not only ... if in Europe at least one atom bomb was blown up, there wouldn’t be NATO, but a united EUROPE, without the American Jewish kagal who now rules the world !!!! Look the truth in the eye: loan interest is only granted Jews ... From the moment of writing the Old Testament, the GREAT JEWELERY to the rest of the Hebrews was kept, we live where we quickly scrambled with them, they expelled them, limits and did not allow THEIR laws to be, there life is different
  6. SASCHAmIXEEW
    SASCHAmIXEEW 7 August 2013 18: 08
    0
    And not only ... if in Europe at least one atom bomb was blown up, there wouldn’t be NATO, but a united EUROPE, without the American Jewish kagal who now rules the world !!!! Look the truth in the eye: loan interest is only granted Jews ... From the moment of writing the Old Testament, the GREAT JEWELERY to the rest of the Hebrews was kept, we live where we quickly scrambled with them, they expelled them, limits and did not allow THEIR laws to be, there life is different
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 6 August 2013 12: 49
    +5
    alone, yeah, how the same. Someone already said so, justifying the massacre of the Cathars in the Languedoc - "Kill them all! The Lord will know his own." Only this was said by the papal legate Arnaud Amalric in Europe during the Albigensian Wars, to justify the massacre in Béziers. So yes? I see that this approach is popular in the XNUMXst century as well. No. Go far with such mottoes, comrades.
    The court must decide who is right, who is guilty, and only then the gallows, and not the bomber.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 13: 44
      0
      “While we were discussing with the barons how to save those of the townspeople who declared themselves Catholic, the vagabonds and other mob suddenly rushed into the city - without armor and without waiting for the orders of the commanders. To our amazement, they shouted“ To arms, to arms! ”And in two or three hours, having overcome the moat and walls, they captured the city of Beziers. Ours did not disassemble any rank, gender, or age, and killed almost twenty thousand people with a sword. After this beating, the whole city was plundered and burned. "

      The phrase was attributed to Arnold
    2. Iraclius
      Iraclius 6 August 2013 14: 25
      0
      Quote: Pimply
      Ours did not disassemble the rank, nor gender, nor age, and killed almost twenty thousand people with a sword.

      Of which the Cathars were a vanishing minority.
      Lopatov likes this "war".
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 14: 30
      +2
      Lopatov simply considers war a war - and he will not be hysterical, unlike most here.
    4. Iraclius
      Iraclius 6 August 2013 14: 37
      +9
      Lopatov may consider whatever he pleases. But a nuclear bomb dropped on a defenseless city that has no military significance is not a war. This is a sadistic murder and an act of intimidation.
      However, why am I crucifying myself in front of people who believe that the Panfilov’s are a myth. request
    5. il grand casino
      il grand casino 6 August 2013 14: 43
      -1
      Hmm ... what about military significance, port, base, logistics ...
    6. Iraclius
      Iraclius 6 August 2013 14: 55
      +2
      What military significance is there ... Hiroshima - because it is surrounded by hills focusing the shock wave and allowing to achieve maximum destruction and a huge number of victims. Nagasaki is a fairly large port, but no longer had any military significance. In addition, it was cloudy over Kokura and decided to hit Nagasaki. There is no excuse for the Americans.
    7. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 August 2013 16: 40
      +1
      Hiroshima and Nagasaki suffered primarily because they were among the few cities without POW camps nearby. And while Hiroshima was of great military importance
  • Day 11
    Day 11 6 August 2013 14: 44
    +1
    This myth was needed at that time for the Soviet people! I do not blame you for this myth
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 30
    -1
    Defenseless city? In the Second World War? In Japan? Are you laughing ??? 8) Tell me, are you tired of living with fantasies? There were anti-aircraft gunners, there were air defense aircraft. Explain where insecurity is? It was an ordinary large industrial center.
    Yes, this is an act of intimidation and murder. In general, war is basically a murder. And in the war, civilians regularly die. And a lot.

    Quote: Iraclius
    However, why am I crucifying myself in front of people who believe that the Panfilov’s are a myth.

    In the form in which the Soviet press of 1941 submitted it and which later settled in the textbooks is a myth.
    It was a completely different, real, and completely non-mythical battle, which was fought by the 4th company, in which over a hundred people died, and in which some of the soldiers survived.
    All this was known back in 1946. But it’s much easier to honor mythical heroes than real heroes, right? And there were more people, and fewer wrecked tanks. And it’s nothing that at least one of the heroes turned out to be a traitor and did not participate in the battle, and that they appointed people to Heroes according to a fictitious article. Need a prettier story. For the sake of this, you can betray the memory of real people, whose feat was replaced with a popular print.
  • Kars
    Kars 6 August 2013 16: 06
    +2
    Quote: Pimply
    Defenseless city? In the Second World War? In Japan? Are you laughing ??? 8) Tell me, are you tired of living with fantasies? There were anti-aircraft gunners, there were air defense aircraft



    There was already nothing. A single plane dealt a blow. What kind of air defense can be discussed.

    The atomic bomb just had to be tested. And nothing more. The Yankees could have wiped the CITIES off the face of the earth without it, a fire storm destroying more people in Tokyo than the atomic bomb.
    Very interesting about choosing a target writes Leslie Groves in his memoirs.


    And in fact, why do Americans justify themselves?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 09
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    There was already nothing. A single plane dealt a blow. What kind of air defense can be discussed.

    Well, what doesn’t mean if the radars spotted the planes and rated the threat as insignificant in view of the small number of targets.


    Quote: Kars
    The atomic bomb just had to be tested. And nothing more. The Yankees could have wiped the CITIES off the face of the earth without it, a fire storm destroying more people in Tokyo than the atomic bomb.
    Very interesting about choosing a target writes Leslie Groves in his memoirs.


    It was necessary to. And who says this bombardment has one goal? But familiar bombs from hundreds of planes are one thing. It's not so scary. But when one bomb can erase the city - it's completely different. As subsequent events showed.
  • Kars
    Kars 6 August 2013 16: 25
    +2
    Quote: Pimply
    if radars spotted planes, and rated the threat as insignificant in view of the small number of targets.

    Radars? Spotted? I haven’t heard such a thing. And probably you don’t need to shoot down scouts? And training pilots --- to shoot down a one-night super fortress is a gift.

    Quote: Pimply
    But familiar bombs from hundreds of planes are one thing. It's not so scary.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 30
    0
    Quote: Kars
    Radars? Spotted? I haven’t heard such a thing. And probably you don’t need to shoot down scouts? And training pilots --- to shoot down a one-night super fortress is a gift.

    At about seven in the morning, a network of Japanese early warning radars recorded the approach of several American aircraft bound for southern Japan. An air alert was announced and broadcasting was stopped in many cities, including Hiroshima. At approximately 08:00 a radar operator in Hiroshima determined that the number of approaching aircraft was very small - perhaps no more than three - and the air alert was canceled. Small groups of American bombers, in order to save fuel and aircraft, the Japanese did not intercept. A standard message was broadcast on the radio that it would be wise to go to bomb shelters if the B-29s were actually spotted, and what was expected was not a raid, but just some sort of intelligence.

    http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/index.shtml

    I beg. I try not to give unsubstantiated statements, you know.

    Yes, the bombing of Tokyo is scary, and even very. But the destruction of the city with ONE bomb produces a disproportionately greater effect. What subsequent events proved.
  • Kars
    Kars 6 August 2013 16: 44
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    Small groups of American bombers, in order to save fuel and aircraft, the Japanese did not intercept



    Well, do you talk after that about air defense? In March, during the Tokyo bombing, less than two dozen bombers were lost.

    Quote: Pimply
    But the destruction of the city with ONE bomb produces a disproportionately greater effect

    it does not produce anything, destruction is destruction. There was no moral effect as such. Many even thought about the eruption of the volcano.
    Quote: Pimply
    What subsequent events proved

    Well below.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 03
    -3
    Quote: Kars
    Well, do you talk after that about air defense? In March, during the Tokyo bombing, less than two dozen bombers were lost.

    Does this mean a lack of air defense, or rather, careful planning by the Americans of the operation?
    http://tornitore.livejournal.com/2419.html
    There is a good shutter speed.


    Quote: Kars
    it does not produce anything, destruction is destruction. There was no moral effect as such. Many even thought about the eruption of the volcano.


    That is why, apparently, the bombing was especially noted in the decision on surrender, voiced by the Japanese emperor, and is present as one of the main factors in the memoirs. They meant nothing, bravo.
  • Kars
    Kars 6 August 2013 17: 24
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    This means a lack of air defense.

    it means air defense which was only as a name.
    Quote: Pimply
    That is why, apparently, the bombing was especially noted in the decision on surrender, voiced by the Japanese emperor

    This is about the same as General Frost and the T-34 among the Germans.
    Quote: Pimply
    It’s just that the bomb became one of the main triggers for earlier surrender

    She did not become any trigger, considering that the Americans had already captured Okinawa, burned Tokyo. She could have become a trigger in 1944 --- then we would have looked at the effect of the atomic bomb.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 38
    -1
    Quote: Kars
    it means air defense which was only as a name.

    Are you trying to judge the air defense in Hiroshima by the Tokyo air defense, which was literally defeated by previous bombings, while Hiroshima was not specially bombed before that?

    Quote: Kars
    This is about the same as General Frost and the T-34 among the Germans.

    No, these are quite official reasons, as mentioned separately

    After receiving news of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, the Japanese government met to discuss their reaction. Starting in June, the emperor advocated peace negotiations, but the Minister of Defense, as well as the leadership of the army and navy, believed that Japan should wait to see if attempts at peace negotiations through the Soviet Union would yield better results than unconditional surrender. The military leadership also believed that if it was possible to hold out before the invasion of the Japanese islands began, it would be possible to inflict such losses on the Allied forces that Japan could win peace conditions other than unconditional surrender.

    This is the first bomb.

    Second bomb
    Until August 9, the military cabinet continued to insist on 4 conditions of surrender. On the morning of August 9, news came almost simultaneously about the declaration of war by the Soviet Union on the evening of August 8 and the atomic bombing of Nagasaki. At the meeting of the “Big Six”, which took place on the night of August 10, the votes on the question of surrender were divided equally (3 “for”, 3 “against”), after which the emperor intervened in the discussion, speaking out for surrender. On August 10, 1945, Japan submitted a proposal for surrender to the Allies, the only condition for which was to preserve the emperor as nominal head of state.

    In his announcement of surrender, Hirohito mentioned atomic bombing:
    ... in addition, the enemy has at his disposal a new terrible weapon that can take many innocent lives and cause immeasurable material damage. If we continue to fight, this will not only lead to the collapse and destruction of the Japanese nation, but also to the complete disappearance of human civilization.
    In such a situation, how can we save millions of our subjects or justify ourselves before the sacred spirit of our ancestors? For this reason, we ordered that the terms of the joint declaration of our opponents be accepted.
  • Kars
    Kars 6 August 2013 17: 44
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    You're trying to judge Hiroshima air defense in Tokyo air defense,

    as such, air defense of Tokyo and Hiroshima was not. There were air defense of Japan. The artillery component can be removed - especially in relation to super fortresses.


    Quote: Pimply
    Starting in June, the emperor advocated peace negotiations.

    As you see

    Quote: Pimply
    Until August 9, the military cabinet continued to insist on 4 conditions of surrender. On the morning of August 9, almost simultaneously, news came of the declaration of war by the Soviet Union on the evening of August 8


    So there is more trigger entry into the war of the USSR.

    Quote: Pimply
    in addition, the enemy has at his disposal a new terrible weapon that can take many innocent lives and cause immeasurable material damage

    Of course, the armada of strategic bombers had not been destroyed or killed before. So General Moroz and nothing more.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 07
    0
    Japan's air defense was not sufficiently saturated with anti-aircraft artillery, detection and warning means. Air defense aircraft had a limited ceiling (5 thousand m) and low speed. All this forced the Japanese command to reorganize the air defense system. Measures were envisaged for the interaction of army and naval aviation.

    After the reorganization in May 1945, the command of the 1st and 2nd United National Defense Armies in the areas designated for them was responsible for the air defense of the metropolis. The command of the United Air Army interacted with them.

    The basis of the air defense was specially allocated aviation units of the army, navy and anti-aircraft artillery. As of June 1945, 970 aircraft (including 510 naval aircraft) and 2590 anti-aircraft guns (including 935 naval guns) were allocated for air defense. However, these funds were completely inadequate in the context of increasing strikes by American aviation.

    When medium and small settlements began to be bombed, the air defense service was generally helpless. The civilian population perished, communications and communications were disrupted. Despite new measures in the reorganization of air defense, losses from American air raids grew.

    Due to the weakness of aviation, a shortage of anti-aircraft artillery and violation of the warning system (as a result of continuous bombing), the air defense of Japan was unable to fulfill its missions to cover the country's military-industrial and civilian facilities.

    Nevertheless, the cities could not be called defenseless. The superiority of the Americans simply affected.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 6 August 2013 22: 10
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    less than two dozen bombers were lost.

    Have you tried to bring down the Flying Fortress? When they fly in a flock and at high altitude, hell will approach them. + Escort fighters. Yes, and the Japanese pilots at 45 were not so hot
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 05
    0
    Plus, the air defense ceiling is 5000 meters.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 7 August 2013 01: 14
    0
    According to Zero, Zhenya could reach up to 10000 thousand. Another thing is the complete dominance of Americans in the air, and the lack of experienced pilots among the Japanese. Remember the losses of Americans on the western front, the Germans rolled them into a thin pancake.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 51
    0
    Zero yes. One of the best aircraft of the war. But as I understand it, the air defense was saturated with much less successful models.

    Quote: Alex 241
    Remember the loss of America on the western front, the Germans rolled them into a thin pancake.

    The Japanese also beat hard. The question is that Americans learned well from mistakes.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 7 August 2013 01: 55
    0
    Yes, the amers under the midway suffered terrible losses. It was simply because of the economy that the Japanese laid down a smaller strength reserve in the aircraft. And the Hellcat and Wildcat were just a target for the experienced pilot, but this concerned the beginning of the war.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 7 August 2013 01: 57
    0
    this is what an experienced pilot can do with a b-17
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 02: 08
    0
    Can. Especially if there is no cover. The funniest thing is that it’s not a fact that the plane eventually crashed. These machines had a huge margin of safety.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 7 August 2013 02: 12
    0
    But the losses were enormous. Regarding strength, the issue is of course debatable.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 7 August 2013 17: 02
    0
    Quote: Alex 241
    this is what an experienced pilot can do with a b-17

    Single yes and possibly lined, yes.
    The plane immediately became a legend, in particular, due to its ability to return to the airfield even with significant damage (for example, there were cases when the plane returned to the base with one out of four engines running, with huge holes in the hull and almost destroyed tail).
    Without cover
    The first air raid on August 17, 1943 did not lead to sufficient destruction of the plants, about 230 Luftwaffe fighters were sent to intercept 17 B-300 aircraft. 36 aircraft with 360 crew members on board were shot down. In total, together with those shot down earlier on the same day during a raid on Regensburg, the losses amounted to 60 B-17 units
    The second attempt on October 14, 1943 was soon called Black Thursday [36]. Of the 291 attacking Fortresses, 59 were shot down over Germany, one drowned in the English Channel, 5 crashed in England and 12 were decommissioned due to combat or landing damage. Total 77 cars lost.
    Only 33 B-17s returned without damage.
    With cover-
    February 24, 1944 was later called the "Big Week". With an escort from the P-51 Mustang and P-47 Thunderbolt fighters, equipped with outboard fuel tanks to increase the flight range, only 11 of the 231 B-17 participating in the operation were shot down [40]. escort fighters allowed to reduce the percentage of losses from 30 to 7
    it's on the Western theater
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 7 August 2013 17: 09
    0
    Quote: Alex 241
    this is what an experienced pilot can do with a b-17

    After examining the downed B-17 and B-24 bombers, the Luftwaffe officers came to the conclusion that to hit a heavy bomber, at least 20 hits from the rear hemisphere of the 20 mm MG 151 cannon shells (pilots with medium rifle training fell into the bomber only 2% of the issued for the purpose of the shells, so for sure destruction of the aircraft it was necessary to fire at least 1000 shells on the target). At the same time, the effective firing range of the fighters did not exceed 400 m, while the arrows of the bombers opened fire from a distance of 1000 m
    Studies conducted in 1943 showed that more than half of the bombers were shot down after losing protection from their group. [53] To solve this problem, the command of the Higher Attestation Commission of the United States developed the Combat box (Combat box), in which the bombers were staggered, providing each other protection with defensive weapons. As a result, the attack of large groups of bombers has become a very difficult task for Luftwaffe pilots [35] [54]. However, in order to maintain fire interaction, the bombers had to strictly maintain their place in the ranks, which prevented anti-aircraft maneuvering, making them vulnerable to anti-aircraft artillery fire.
  • Kars
    Kars 6 August 2013 16: 27
    +2
    Quote: Pimply
    As subsequent events showed

    And the subsequent events did not have much to do with atomic bombs. It was a general defeat. Nobody really knew about the atomic bombing gyro in Japan, nor about their effect
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 04
    +2
    Someone say that the Japanese would not lose? Not. It’s just that the bomb became one of the main triggers for earlier surrender.
  • volkodav
    volkodav 7 August 2013 07: 25
    -1
    I wonder how you would behave towards the Japanese?
  • Day 11
    Day 11 6 August 2013 14: 39
    0
    Here, Zhenya, you are right! I absolutely agree with Lopatov! To fight like that. Until death. Until one of the opponents dies. There are no options.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 6 August 2013 12: 50
    +2
    Exactly. War is not a walk, and it is worth starting it, be prepared for the "overhead"
  • rolik
    rolik 6 August 2013 13: 40
    +1
    Quote: lonely
    shovels prav.population of Germany and Japan deserved what happened to them

    But not by such methods. Then we needed, judging by your words, to use the camps of the Nazis and begin to burn the population of the defeated Germany, Romania, Italy.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 14: 31
      +1
      What to ruin your soldiers? If the USSR had a bomb at that time, it would be used against Germany without a second thought. And I dare to assure everyone who is condemning the Americans now that they would sing the horn of sagacity of the Soviet commanders.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 6 August 2013 12: 28
    +1
    And who is the United States to decide on the senseless killing of 100000 people?
    There was no other way? It was. It would be possible to make a film about the testing of atomic weapons and show its terrible power and send it to the leadership of Japan. Wait for the reaction. And if it did not follow, then bomb. One could choose a less populated village. But this has not been done.
    It was a calmly thought out, sadistic, political act of intimidation of the world community and the USSR in particular.
    What retribution of Japan are you talking about?
    The country was already in ruins, in only non-nuclear bombardments of Tokyo with incendiary bombs to simulate the effects of nuclear strikes, which in itself a fierce atrocity, has already killed more than 100000 people.
    There was no longer the imperial fleet and aviation. What other atonement is needed? If the Americans would order 10000 to give out Japanese babies and crucify them on the crosses, would you also call it retribution?
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 13: 45
      +4
      Like who? One of the warring parties, which had a more powerful weapon, and which had every right to use it, so as not to ruin its soldiers. And if this bomb was Russian and dropped on Berlin and Munich, you would have sung here the horn of sagacity of Soviet military leaders.
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 13: 50
        0
        USSR bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Not. Any questions? Not.
        And how do you deign to know what I would sing to whom?
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 6 August 2013 14: 38
        0
        And I'm 8% sure of this XNUMX). Because for you the trigger is the Americans. Americans mean bad. U, scary and nasty.

        The USSR did not bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Just a bomb was not suitable. But it was quite hard bombing German cities, not really making a difference.

        Or do you think that the Soviet bombers were the most humane? No, they were ordinary - read about how Helsinki was bombed in Finland.

        Or here
        "T-shchu Vodopyanova
        To oblige the 81 air division, led by division commander Comrade Vodopyanov from 9.08 to 10.08 or one of the following days, depending on weather conditions, to raid Berlin. During a raid, besides high-explosive bombs, it is imperative to drop small and large caliber incendiary bombs on Berlin. If the engines begin to be handed over on the way to Berlin, have Koenigsberg as a reserve target for the bombing.
        J. Stalin
        8.08.41 »

        War is a cruel and bloody thing.
      3. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 15: 21
        +3
        AND? What's so surprising? Did the Soviet Union drop bombs in the hope that Germany would surrender in fear? Not. How did the cities give up? They were taken by storm, and the defenders defended. Is this a war? Yes. Nuclear mushroom war over Japan? No, this is a penalty.
        And you. sir, belong to that category of individuals who get a kick out of crushing escaping civilians with caterpillars? After all, the more we kill, the sooner the war will end. How did Kaiser Wilhelm say there? “Everything must be given to fire and sword; men, women and children must be killed, and no tree or house must be left undamaged. It is my duty as emperor to end the war as soon as possible. ”I consider such people monsters, and you admire them.
      4. Pimply
        Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 39
        0
        The Soviet Union did not have an atomic bomb. He dropped bombs in order to have a frightening effect - as stated, in particular, in Stalin's telegram, where he demands to use "lighters" in the bombing of Berlin.
        Quote: Iraclius
        And you. sir, belong to that category of individuals who get high from being crushed by caterpillars of fleeing civilians?

        No, I just soberly evaluate the war, and I do not like hysteria, especially those who think with double standards.
      5. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 15: 53
        0
        And where do you think I saw double standards or hysteria? I myself am a very calm person, even phlegmatic. But I am laughing at your other comments, I admit. lol Here, completely different people condemn the Nanjing massacre and death marches, but justify the nuclear bombing.
        And as for the assessment of the war ... Even animals do not destroy competitors without exception, and people easily. I could never understand what exactly this is about to happen to a person these days, so that he can write excuses for the actions of Americans in Japan.
      6. Pimply
        Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 03
        0
        Quote: Iraclius
        Here, completely different people condemn the Nanjing massacre and death marches, but justify the nuclear bombing.

        Yes, they do. You do not see the difference between these events? Apparently you do not see the difference between the German concentration camps and the bombing of Berlin. I feel sorry for you.
      7. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 16: 09
        +1
        The sir is engaged in casuistry and the substitution of concepts. I wish you all the best and wish you not to end up in a concentration camp and under the carpet / nuclear bombardment, otherwise who will troll and hack the forum provocateur? lol
      8. Pimply
        Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 16
        -1
        Oh, I’m a troll and a forum provocateur, and I’m surely making money on it. Bravo! Only now you do not have enough knowledge of history, or data, not an internal understanding of the situation to clearly articulate your position. To do this, you are trying to ineptly ridicule me and accuse of trolling.

        But one fact - the main thing for you is not the Japanese kids, but the fact that the Americans dropped the bomb. No matter how you try to show something else. And it infuriates you that it was they who dropped the bomb. If Vasily Ivanov had dropped a bomb on Berlin, you would have erected a monument to him. That's all.
      9. Day 11
        Day 11 6 August 2013 16: 22
        +2
        Guys, if you want to argue with Eugene (pimply) -Beat him only with reason, facts (preferably with a photo video). He is a savvy guy. And do not disgrace
  • bomg.77
    bomg.77 7 August 2013 03: 13
    +1
    Quote: Iraclius
    Yes. Nuclear mushroom war over Japan? No, this is an execution.
    I fully share this point of view! hi Your opponents seem to have forgotten about military honor, but remembered revenge and are trying to replace these concepts. The atomic bombing is not justified, even inhuman Japanese.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 16: 05
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    The USSR did not bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Just a bomb was not suitable. But it was quite hard bombing German cities, not really making a difference.

    Who bombed German cities?
    Would you ask how many tons of bombs the Anglo-Americans dropped and how many the USSR.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 11
    0
    Quote: saturn.mmm
    Would you ask how many tons of bombs the Anglo-Americans dropped and how many the USSR

    And I am in the know. Do you think that if the USSR had the capabilities of the Americans and the British, the Union would not have bombed? I would bomb. And he would be absolutely right. And so he bombed because of his capabilities. And also - as cruel as possible.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 16: 59
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    if

    You have an assumption today in almost every comment. Stalin for the whole world tried to look like a humanitarian, communist values, however, so it is unlikely. As a soldier, we did not particularly regret it.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 24
    -5
    I have assumptions from the policy and the documents that are available at the moment. Stalin did not try to look humane - remember the bombing of Helsinki or the order to use "lighters" in the bombing of Berlin. He just didn't have a bomb.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 22: 02
    -1
    Quote: Pimply
    He just didn't have a bomb.

    He simply had different goals and objectives, while the British built heavy bombers. Stalin built attack aircraft of the Il-2 type.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 17
    0
    For starters - the USSR needed first of all front-line aviation - because the battles were ALREADY fought on the territory of the Soviet Union. Here it is primarily developed. And not because there was no desire to bomb. The desire was, and quite strong.

    "Sandy Express" on Soviet air raids on Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania (radio interception). Istanbul, September 19th. According to the Istanbul correspondent of the Sandy Express newspaper,
    Russian air raids on Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary caused serious damage to numerous centers, and the governments of the Balkan satellite powers of the axis powers are seriously afraid of future raids. Until now, it was generally believed that Russia was too far away and busy defending its own front to attack the Balkans, and therefore many safety precautions were missing there ... Special damage was inflicted on Budapest. According to one neutral diplomat, during the first raid on Budapest, the large railway station of the Hungarian capital was badly damaged and, according to the Hungarian press, the government requisitioned all the glass in the city to repair windows. The Hungarians bitterly complain that they would not have suffered such losses if the Germans hadn’t taken the Hungarian air forces to Germany. Currently, all three states are feverishly organizing air defense in the main cities and at the factories operating on the Nazis, prudently created in these countries, as it were, far from the bombers of the united countries ...
    The bombing was completely unexpected for Bulgaria, which still maintains diplomatic relations with Moscow.

    The raids affected the internal situation, which at present is by no means too good. The Germans in Bulgaria pump out of the country all the products that they can get, leaving the peasants with a meager ration of bread and some meat. Recently, Hitler’s agents confiscated all sheep’s skins and planted five thousand workers for making winter clothes for German troops in Russia.

    For Romania, the bombing was a heavy blow, as Romania had already lost thousands of lives on the Russian front. The size of the damage is still unknown, but, according to official Romanian reports, after the attack, fires raged during the day. Over Bucharest, Soviet pilots dropped thousands of leaflets urging Romanians to stop fighting on the side of the Germans.

    http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/golovanov_ae/17.html
    http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/golovanov_ae/index.html

    A lot of interesting. Read Golovanov.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 7 August 2013 22: 14
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    if the USSR had the capabilities of the Americans and the British, would the Union not bomb? Would bomb

    I don’t know the truth or not, but at the end of the war we invented something like a kr suspended under a plane of considerable destructive power. And Stalin decided not to use it in the cities, he read somewhere, maybe a bike
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 23: 15
    0
    Do you believe that yourself?
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 21: 46
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    Obligate the 81st air division led by division commander Comrade Vodopyanov from 9.08 to 10.08

    Well, you would say A would already say B
    In total, before September 5, Soviet pilots completed nine raids on Berlin, making a total of 86 sorties. 33 aircraft bombed Berlin, dropping 21 tons of bombs on it and causing 32 fires in the city. 37 aircraft could not reach the capital of Germany and attacked other cities. A total of 311 HE and incendiary bombs were consumed. 36 t.. 34 campaign bombs with leaflets were dropped. For various reasons, 16 aircraft were forced to interrupt the flight and return to the airfield. During the raids, 17 planes and 7 crews were lost, and 2 planes and 1 crew died at the airport, when they tried to take off with a 1000-pound and two 500-pound bombs on external suspensions.
    And here is an example for you about allies, compare.
    In late July - early August 1943, 4 night and 3 day massive raids were carried out on Hamburg. In total, about 3 thousand heavy Allied bombers took part in them. During the first raid on July 27 from one in the morning on densely populated areas of the city was dropped 10 000 t explosives, mainly incendiary and high-explosive bombs. A fire storm raged for several days in Hamburg, and a column of smoke reached a height of 4 km. Even the pilots felt the smoke of the burning city, it penetrated into the cockpits of aircraft. According to eyewitnesses, asphalt and sugar stored in warehouses boiled in the city, glass melted in trams. Civilians burned alive, turning to ashes, or suffocated from toxic gases in the basements of their own homes, trying to hide from the bombing. Or they were buried under ruins. In the diary of the German Friedrich Reck, sent to Dachau by the Nazis, there are stories about people who fled from Hamburg in their pajamas, who lost their memory or went mad with horror.
    Here is a photo.
  • Nu daaaa ...
    Nu daaaa ... 7 August 2013 00: 04
    +1
    The bombing of Tallinn in World War II ...

    1944 year

    The most powerful attack was on March 9th. A week earlier, the mayor of Tallinn ordered residents to leave the city, but the evacuation failed. The magnitude of the attack exceeded the expectations of the civilian population and the commanders of the army of the North group. Fire brigades lacked water, because as a result of Soviet sabotage, an urban pumping station was blown up before an air raid. Military destruction was minimal with several destroyed military installations and supply depots. The main military loss was the burning of a million liters of fuel in a fuel depot. Most of the bombs fell on residential and public buildings, including the Estonia Theater, the Niguliste Church, the city synagogue, four cinemas and the Tallinn City Archives with collections of medieval documents. Most of the wooden suburbs were burned, and the city center suffered great damage. According to the official report, 757 people were killed, of which 586 were civilians, 50 were military personnel, and 121 were prisoners of war. 213 people were seriously injured. Later, after the dead were discovered, the number of victims increased to 800 people. More than 20 people were left homeless, while military facilities were virtually untouched.

    The very fact of the bombing and the loss of civilian population as a result of the raids were used for propaganda purposes. On February 27, during a raid by the Soviet Air Force, children playing in the Lunya schoolyard were hurt, four were killed. The date of their funeral was positioned as a national memorial day; Henrik Wisnapuu published the poem “Uus Herodes” (“Modern Herod”). [4] [5] One of the propaganda goals was to attract Estonians to serve in German formations. [6] The slogan was posted on the ruins of the Estonia Theater: [5] Varemeist tõuseb kättemaks! ("Revenge will rise from the ruins!"). The same slogan became the headline of the newspaper of the 20th Grenadier Division of the Waffen-SS (1st Estonian). [5]

    The last Soviet air raid occurred on the night of September 22, 1944.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 7 August 2013 12: 51
    0
    Quote: Nu daaaa ...
    The last Soviet air raid occurred on the night of September 22, 1944.

    American diplomats in their already famous epistle write:

    “In addition to the church of St. Nicholas, during the bombing and subsequent fire, the Theater“ Estonia ”was destroyed, city ​​synagogue and the Tallinn City Archive, which housed a collection of medieval documents. At the same time, the damage caused to the German military infrastructure was minimal ... "
    The city synagogue was destroyed in Tallinn in 1944, there were probably respectable Jews praying there at that time?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 18
    +2
    You mention only one length of time, right? I recommend recalling others, and not limited to just the first bombing of Berlin.
  • Djozz
    Djozz 6 August 2013 16: 13
    +1
    Now some German historians, and "ours" condemn Marinesko for torpedoing "Gustlov", they say there were women and children!
  • Day 11
    Day 11 6 August 2013 16: 17
    +1
    And there, in fact, there was darkness, darkness! Most died
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 32
    +3
    Exactly. But the ship did not possess the necessary markings and followed as part of a military convoy. It’s easy for us to judge now, but Marinesco didn’t have such data and this ship was a legitimate target for him.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 22
    +2
    It is worth noting that I do not know what German historians you are talking about, but there is a specific opinion of the researcher of this disaster, Heinz Schön, who concludes that the liner was a military target and its sinking was not a war crime, since: ships intended for transportation refugees, hospital ships had to be marked with the corresponding signs - a red cross, could not wear camouflage, could not go in the same convoy along with military courts. On board could not be any military cargo, stationary and temporarily placed air defense weapons, artillery guns or other similar means.
    "William Gustloff" was a warship (from the moment it was assigned to the Navy school), which allowed six thousand refugees. The entire responsibility for their lives from the moment they embarked on the warship lay with the respective officials of the German navy. Thus, Gustloff was the legitimate military target of Soviet submariners in view of the following facts:
    "William Gustloff" was not an unarmed civilian vessel: it had weapons on board that could be used to fight enemy ships and aircraft;
    "William Gustloff" was a training floating base for the German submarine fleet;
    "William Gustloff" was accompanied by a warship of the German fleet (destroyer "Lion");
    Soviet transports with refugees and wounded during the war have repeatedly become targets for German submarines and aircraft (in particular, the ship "Armenia", sunk in 1941 in the Black Sea, was carrying more than 5 thousand refugees and wounded on board. Only 8 people survived However, “Armenia”, like “William Gustloff”, violated the status of a medical vessel and was a legitimate military target.
  • Djozz
    Djozz 6 August 2013 18: 13
    0
    There is a German film on this topic, the height of impudence, Russian sailors are presented as "barbarians". On ru. the tracker is uploaded.
  • stroporez
    stroporez 6 August 2013 16: 56
    0
    and where do the Americans !! ??????? a classmate who regularly travels to Japan for business. So, from the majority (in any case of those with whom he has to communicate), the Japanese believe that the USSR carried out the atomic bombing .........
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 07
      +3
      It's funny, especially considering the fact that they pass it at school. Apparently, they say something else there. Strange, then where are the Japanese demonstrations in which they just emphasize the role of the United States? Mystic.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 6 August 2013 23: 38
    0
    Quote: Iraclius
    And who is the United States to decide on the senseless killing of 100000 people?

    Well, you lie but do not lie, there is no senseless killing of the enemy. The Japanese can kill the Chinese, the Japanese can kill the Koreans, the Japanese can kill the Americans, why then can not kill the Japanese? The so-called innocently killed Japanese are those whose fathers, husbands, children and sons have committed atrocities in China, for which the nation is cut out under the root.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 6 August 2013 23: 49
      0
      Where do you come from? And, after all, go to the same schools with us, eat at the same canteens. Perhaps, in one platoon, you sew a hem alongside ...
      Proponents of genocide, Mlyn.
      You would read at least all the comments on the article, and then reprove it, the accuser.
      I equally condemn genocide and atrocities on any side. But this does not give a reason to destroy from the face of the earth children, patients in hospitals, pregnant women and even the whole people, what are you calling for here. War crimes are the prerogative of the tribunal. If this is a matter of principle, then I advise you to start giving up everything that was invented in Japan - electronics, cars and other junk that you are sure to use every day. The same bloody Japanese invented and / or done!
      And then yelling here about fair retribution is all great. I have seen such screaming accusers ...
      And read in a dream about the souvenirs that humane American soldiers made from the body parts of the murdered Japanese, look at the little photos - they are on the Web.
  • 12345
    12345 6 August 2013 13: 15
    +3
    Quote: Spade
    The Japanese got what they deserve.


    Well, how did the Germans "deserve"? The "work" to destroy the German cities was carried out exclusively by the "allied aviation".
    http://vilavi.ru/prot/150307/150307.shtml





    The Soviet people did not kill children. Although the "grief sipped" no less than the Chinese.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 August 2013 13: 24
      +4
      Consequential civilian casualties during hostilities are inevitable. And therefore I repeat: do not want victims among your own civilian population, do not start wars. Point. All consequences are on the conscience of the aggressor.

      Harris's "bomber" doctrine did not appear out of nowhere. Its origin was Coventry.
      1. 12345
        12345 6 August 2013 13: 50
        +4
        Quote: Spade
        And therefore I repeat: do not want victims among your own civilian population, do not start wars. Point.


        Familiar rhetoric. It is called: "If you do not surrender your partisans, we will destroy the entire village."

        Even the names of the villages were remembered: Khatyn, Songmi ..
      2. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 14: 03
        +2
        Lopatov does not matter. I understand that he doesn't care who cuts whom - Albigensians and Christians, Catholics and Huguenots, Americans and Japanese ... Whoever has a thicker club is a male. And a hundred or two people who were brutally tortured ... What a war, sir! But the Americans are still good, because "the Japanese have sunk their destroyer."
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 13: 46
    0
    Sure? Read the memoirs of war veterans.
    1. 12345
      12345 6 August 2013 13: 56
      +1
      Quote: Pimply
      Read the memoirs of war veterans.


      "A large group of Germans in a crowd ran away from the tank along the gentle slope of the hill. You could easily get them out of tank machine guns. But for some reason I ordered my loader to put a shrapnel round on the canister shot. About thirty people were torn to shreds. At that moment I caught myself thinking that I feel the same unforgettable feeling ... "© (Artem Drabkin" I fought in the T-34. Book two ", interview with Degen Ion Lazarevich)

      Simply - a confession "chikatilo", some kind. A citizen naturally and more than once relishes the murder process itself.

      And - NOTHING, even remotely similar, in the memoirs of OTHER tankmen.

      "However - a trend ..." ©
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 14: 41
      0
      Quote: 12345
      And - NOTHING, even remotely similar, in the memoirs of OTHER tankmen.

      You have read a little.

      Pugacheva (Chertova) Tatyana Aleksandrovna
      AD: - What is your attitude towards the Germans?
      - Of course, hatred. They bullied a lot, especially in the villages. And they burned, and raped, robbed. We once stood next to the tankers, and one boy-tanker told us about his friend: “We walked right through its edges, and he asked us to let go to his relatives. We came there - and there were three houses from his village. the family, mother and daughter, the Germans burned alive, doused with kerosene, because his father was in a partisan detachment. The policemen gave out: And when they already occupied Berlin, when the war was almost over, he saw: a German girl was coming. He called her over, put her on tank, called a comrade with him - and on two tanks they tied her by the legs and tore her apart. There was a trial, and at the trial he says: “I avenged my relatives.” They gave him 10 years, but then, two months later, they released ".

      And there are many similar memories.
    3. Iraclius
      Iraclius 6 August 2013 14: 56
      +1
      The question is - do you think these people are mentally normal?
    4. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 46
      +1
      There are no mentally normal people. Especially if they howl for many years. The psychology of war is completely different.
    5. Iraclius
      Iraclius 6 August 2013 15: 57
      +4
      So be it. But even in this case, the majority restrains their animal instincts. Not themselves, so under the threat of reprisal from their own. Then what are these quotes for? Which describe the actions of deliberately inadequate people who severely punished for such acts? Troll, please?
      And the acts of the Americans with their bombing in general can be regarded as state terrorism. That with which they are so "successfully" fighting now in the Middle East.
    6. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 04
      -1
      Quote: Iraclius
      And the acts of the Americans with their bombing in general can be regarded as state terrorism. That with which they are so "successfully" fighting now in the Middle East.

      Well, for you the main thing here is the Americans, not their action. If a Soviet plane dropped a bomb, you would consider it a feat.
    7. Iraclius
      Iraclius 6 August 2013 16: 11
      0
      For me, the main thing is a fact. And the fact is that the Americans killed two cities. If, yes, if only ... History, as you know, does not tolerate the subjunctive mood, but sir Pupyrchaty does not know about this and is persistently trying to powder readers' brains with those crimes of the USSR that he did not commit. Russophobe?
    8. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 16
      0
      For you, the main thing is not a fact. For you, the main thing is the Americans. That's all. The rest is particular.
    9. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 22: 14
      +1
      Quote: Pimply
      For you, the main thing is not a fact. For you, the main thing is Americans

      In this case, the fact that the Americans dropped bombs.
      And to begin, a fact is not a fact that a fact is not necessary.
    10. Pimply
      Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 20
      0
      But what, not a fact? Fact. Because there is no crying over innocently murdered German children in Berlin or Koenigsberg. The main thing here is that the Americans dropped the bomb. In general, the Japanese do not care.
  • 12345
    12345 6 August 2013 16: 29
    +2
    Quote: Iraclius
    Russophobe?


    This "option" is included in the "basic package" of every Jew by default.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 08
    0
    Bravo. How nice that you constantly transfer your complexes to others. Since you are anti-Semite, then Jews simply must be Russophobes. Bis! Wonderful!
  • Djozz
    Djozz 6 August 2013 18: 35
    +1
    Yes, he is anti-Semitic; he does not like Arabs!
  • 12345
    12345 6 August 2013 19: 06
    +2
    Quote: Djozz
    ... he does not like Arabs!


    Still more confused ... I have a lot of respect ... Wasserman.

    So it turns out: either Wasserman is not a Jew, or ... both are good!
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 20: 35
    0
    The term refers to hostility towards Jews and / or Jews, and not to all the peoples of the Semitic language group. It is believed that the word "anti-Semitism" was first used by German publicist Wilhelm Marr in 1879 in the pamphlet "The Victory of Germanism over Jewry." The term is explained by racist ideas about the biological incompatibility of Europeans, who appeared among the first ideologists of racial anti-Semitism as the "Germanic" or "Aryan" race, and Jews as representatives of the "Semitic race". Since then, it denotes hostility to Jews, despite attempts, based on etymology, to extend the term to the Arabs, because they also speak the language of the Semitic group
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 6 August 2013 20: 44
    0
    Not tired of copy-paste from Wikipedia to do or is all knowledge limited to this?
    Personally, I have nothing against the Jews. There are normal people, there are alternatively gifted ... As among representatives of other nations. But I don’t digest idiots and fanatics. Something like this.
  • 12345
    12345 6 August 2013 23: 18
    +3
    Quote: Iraclius
    But I don’t digest idiots and fanatics.


    Then you with "Gumpy" are definitely "out of luck." Bo, I'm afraid it - both "in one bottle".

    The other day it was here, with a very serious air, proving that the rabbi, by initiating a person "into Jews", radically changes his ... nationality!

    So - with a "light movement of the razor", a whole set of chromosomes is reshuffled! A person had one halo group, now it is another!

    Geneticists - "nervously smoke on the sidelines" ...
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 6 August 2013 23: 33
    0
    And he about the fact that the blood of newborn Christian babies is mixed in matzoh and the rubbed cachets did not say, by chance? lol
    Then everything is complicated here.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 23
    0
    I do this daily. 8)
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 23
    0
    Oh, I am amazed at the very heart! You killed me! Ah, I'm dying. I am evil, and you are wonderful good. I'll go in the morning with tears.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 21
    +1
    No, not tired. Illiteracy must be reminded of their illiteracy. Do you need more serious research on the term? I have them too. Do you master them? And not only in Russian?
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 01: 49
    +2
    And I am insulting someone else. And is it polite to call readers of a site illiterate? And on what grounds are you determining literacy or illiteracy? By the ability to carry quotes from Wikipedia? Funny you.
    Don’t worry about me - I’ll master everything.
    You are essentially talking more, not mumbling to avert your eyes.
    You are not evil. You are a person who is looking for an excuse. I see that the system of moral and ethical values ​​in you is broken and distorted. You poke people so often that they don’t know the war and I want to ask how and where did you know it?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 02: 09
    -2
    Yes. With wolves - like a wolf. If you want a reasonable discussion and polite treatment - learn to argue and reasonably express an opinion. Until now, I have not noticed this with you.
    You are illiterate. What matters to you is not the dead children, but the word AMERICANS. That's all.
  • Djozz
    Djozz 7 August 2013 09: 37
    +2
    A typical Zionist game of words and concepts! It doesn’t mean that Marr blurted out, the fact remains, the Jews speak the language of the Semitic group, and not German!
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 13: 57
    -1
    Pour more - maybe it’s better
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 23: 54
    +2
    Quote: Pimply
    You are anti-Semite, it means that Jews simply must be Russophobes. Bis! Wonderful!

    I will fully support you here. We are not discussing anti-Semitic Semites, but the bombing of Japan. I beg people with national complexes to restrain myself a little. And if not in the might, then write an article on this topic and discuss.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 28
    0
    War in itself is a crime. Horrible and bloody. If it weren’t for the war, the soldiers would have been tried for murder. Why are there other laws in war? Because it does not fit into the framework of peacetime. There are two axioms for war.
    a) Protect your people first
    b) Civilians - die
    Two very disgusting facts. The bombing of Hiroshima is highly controversial from an ethical point of view. But this is from our hill and our time. Then those who used the bomb had a choice - to throw hundreds of thousands of their soldiers into a bloody massacre, increasing their losses many times and killing millions of Japanese people, or dropping several bombs that killed 100 thousand people and stopped the war. They made their choice, no matter how contradictory it was.

    War is blood, sweat, tears and dead children. It has always been so. Unfortunately, this will continue to be the case. The task is to try to change it step by step. Because immediately it obviously will not work.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 01: 44
    +1
    They had a third option - to save the lives of their soldiers and not go to the use of WMD. Just wait for the surrender, which was inevitable.
    But for you, Pupyrchaty, for some reason, you really want the wars to end this way - through hundreds of thousands of uselessly killed people?
    The task is to try to change it step by step. Because immediately it obviously will not work.

    With your approach, this is basically impossible, because you are trying to justify notorious war criminals, and the crime itself is whitewashed by an imaginary military necessity.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 7 August 2013 01: 48
    0
    Andrew in my opinion is just the opposite.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 54
    -1
    Quote: Iraclius
    They had a third option - to save the lives of their soldiers and not go to the use of WMD. Just wait for the surrender, which was inevitable.

    Mr. Lord, with whom I speak. What kindergarten did you crawl out of. Come back, you will get dirty sliders. Maybe the Soviet troops should have stood still on the German border - maybe it will surrender itself?

    The Japanese did not want to capitulate on the conditions that the Postdam Conference offered them. They were going to fight, and so that the enemy received unacceptable losses for themselves, and softened the conditions of surrender.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 02: 02
    +1
    Alex 241, what's the other way around?
    I already wrote that Prince Konoe testified that Japan would have lasted no longer than the fall of 1945. And would accept the terms of the Potsdam Conference, even if the emperor’s power was abolished.
    You can return to your cave to the Neanderthals. Although I offend them in vain - they were quite peaceful.
    Why are you all obsessed with Germany? Is Germany an island in the sea?
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 7 August 2013 02: 08
    -1
    You can just Sasha and you. I do not think that the Japanese would agree with the abolition of the power of the emperor. But this is my personal opinion.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 02: 15
    -1
    On July 26, the governments of the United States, Britain and China signed the Potsdam Declaration, which set out the demand for unconditional surrender of Japan. The atomic bomb was not mentioned in the declaration.
    The next day, Japanese newspapers reported that the declaration, the text of which was broadcast on the radio and scattered in leaflets from airplanes, was rejected. The Japanese government did not express a desire to accept an ultimatum. On July 28, Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki announced at a press conference that the Potsdam Declaration was nothing more than the old arguments of the Cairo Declaration in a new wrapper, and demanded that the government ignore it.
  • Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 7 August 2013 04: 30
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    On July 26, the governments of the United States, Great Britain and China signed the Potsdam Declaration,


    Quote: Pimply
    On July 28, Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki announced at a press conference that the Potsdam Declaration was nothing more than the old arguments of the Cairo Declaration in a new wrapper, and demanded that the government ignore it.


    amazing knowledge of history good

  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 13: 57
    0
    Well, you don’t know her, or rather you don’t care about her 8)
  • 12345
    12345 6 August 2013 17: 00
    +5
    Quote: Pimply
    ... and one tankman told us about his friend ...
    ... and in two tanks they tied her legs and tore her ...

    10 years they gave him ...


    Naturally - "one grandmother said", i.e. retelling from the words of a third (!) person, as in a joke:

    “Vi, you heard how Rabinovich was fabulously lucky!” He won a thousand rubles in the lottery!
    - Not in the lottery, but in - preference, and did not win, but - lost ...

    To tear apart the child (!), And even with "two tanks" (!!) - yes, it was just the "Chikatil brigade" acting! A fairy tale from the category of "pioneer horror stories at night looking."
    And they condemned only one ("they gave him 10 years ..."). The rest, not otherwise - "noted with thanks"?

    And, Degen Ion Lazarevich, evon, please - "in the first person". You can go to him in Israel, ask again, if - what.
    Ion Lazarevich relish details - loves ...

    And why be surprised? There, through one - ALL are like that. Just ask the question, how are they there, "Arabs - win"? Very naturalistic details "in paints" are guaranteed.

    East + "millennial" traditions:

    "... Here is a parable about the East
    The old elder told me.
    "Even the fairy tales here are cruel,"
    I thought - and measured the neck ... "©
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 27
    +3
    I recommend reading the memoirs of Soviet soldiers - you will discover many new things.
    Mass, however, was not in this.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 6 August 2013 19: 39
    +1
    Here is a purely American product for you, look at how rapturously they are telling how they burned MiGs.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 22: 53
    +2
    Quote: Alex 241
    Here is a purely American product for you, look at how rapturously they are telling how they burned MiGs.

    I allow myself a small addition.
    Today, the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces has declassified documents from the times of the war in Korea. Here is the general data. Soviet pilots of the 64th Fighter Aviation Corps (during the war, it alternately - from 6 months to one year - included ten divisions) conducted 1872 air battles, during which 1106 enemy aircraft were shot down, of which 86 F-650 units ... Hull losses: 335 aircraft. The ratio is 3: 1 in favor of the Soviet pilots, including the latest aircraft (MIG-15 and F-86 "Saber") - 2: 1. Note: the American pilots acted less efficiently than the pilots of the United Air Force, which included parts of China and the DPRK. They shot down 231 aircraft and lost 271.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 6 August 2013 22: 59
    +1
    All this is not in doubt, but people who look at it will have the impression of the complete domination of the United States in the air. The question arises, what kind of obsessive desire among American pilots to hit the cockpit?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 31
    +1
    More effective, Sasha. Aircraft destruction guarantee.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 7 August 2013 01: 35
    +1
    You know Zhen, I looked through all the episodes of this nonsense, and concluded that the Americans did not have any ideological background, they just gave the rank of reactive ace for 5 shot down times, and for this they left the hosts, etc. all this didn’t fit in my head. I think you also looked at this masterpiece.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 56
    0
    Oh, I’ve sworn this long ago. There are very few really good films on the topic, even less - their normal translations. I watched the Doomsday War about the Discovery Channel - sobbing from the translation, the dude often just said the opposite of the text there 8))
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 7 August 2013 01: 59
    0
    Me too, better than any sobering-up laughing
  • Djozz
    Djozz 6 August 2013 18: 23
    0
    It looks like the fantasies of the "prematurely" deceased, how to live on, Madame Bonner.
  • Djozz
    Djozz 6 August 2013 18: 19
    +1
    Nonsense! Tear to shreds 30 people with one shell from a 76-mm gun, das east fantastic!
  • 12345
    12345 6 August 2013 18: 45
    +3
    Quote: Djozz
    ... das ist fiction!


    That's it ... A citizen is so intoxicated by the sight of fresh blood that he can even dream of 30, 130 people "to shreds". This is exactly the saddest thing ...
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 16: 15
    +4
    Quote: Pimply
    Sure? Read the memoirs of war veterans.

    Are these the memoirs that were written in the late 90s?
    For example, Solzhenitsyn, sitting in the Gulag, invented the encoder in Sharag and at the same time saw the atrocities of the Red Army in Germany.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 23
    +1
    Those memoirs that were written in principle.
  • Djozz
    Djozz 6 August 2013 18: 41
    +1
    Solzhenitsyn in what such a "Sharaga", he sat and knocked the nickname "Vetrov" in Karlag.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 23: 59
    0
    Quote: Djozz
    Solzhenitsyn in what such a "Sharaga", he sat and knocked the nickname "Vetrov" in Karlag.

    He has a novel about "Sharaga" in which the encoder was developed.
  • zennon
    zennon 7 August 2013 00: 15
    +1
    He has a novel about "Sharaga"

    "In the first circle" is called.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 32
    +2
    Solzhenitsyn is an extremely controversial figure.
  • Scoun
    Scoun 6 August 2013 16: 17
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    Not. The Japanese got what they deserve.

    Quote: lonely
    shovels prav.population of Germany and Japan deserved what happened to them. this population chose their grief rulers

    In any situation - Children should not suffer ... and women, these are women, I equate them with children and they should not die either.
    But the rest .... that one count aspen in a duplicate that the other but this is ideal. ((((
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 34
      -1
      Yes, they should not. But life is not a film, and war is not a popular print. It is not for us and not from our bell tower to judge those decisions. The Americans saved the lives of both their soldiers, and, in general, the lives of the Japanese - in Okinawa, out of 200 thousand Japanese who died, 100 thousand were civilians.
      1. 12345
        12345 6 August 2013 18: 59
        0
        Quote: Pimply
        Americans saved lives as their soldiers ...


        "Oh, I beg you!" © They - "saved"!

        Yes, they needed an advertising "action of intimidation". For "Uncle Joe," as they called Stalin.

        And, grandfather Stalin - flint ... And - did not raise an eyebrow when Truman told him in Potsdam about his "superbomb".
        Truman and Churchill were so anticipating, at least some thread of reaction ... Well, at least some ... And, in response - "zero emotion".

        But Kurchatov was ordered to accelerate as much as possible.
    2. Djozz
      Djozz 6 August 2013 18: 44
      0
      And Baltic women snipers, what to equate to the Chechen campaign of the 90s
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 7 August 2013 00: 21
        0
        Quote: Djozz
        And Baltic women snipers, what to equate to the Chechen campaign of the 90s

        In 99% of cases, hallucinations or tales.
  • Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 6 August 2013 16: 52
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    Not. The Japanese got what they deserve.


    That is, you do not separate the civilian population and war criminals?
    This is Nazism.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 August 2013 17: 07
      0
      I share. However, the blame for the death of their own civilians lies clearly with the aggressor.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 6 August 2013 17: 22
        0
        Quote: Spade
        However, the blame for the death of their own civilians lies clearly with the aggressor.


        That is, the systematic destruction of civilians is not a war crime?

        The difference between let's say the Red Army and the Wehrmacht with the Japanese military does not lead you to any thoughts?
        Well, or the words of Stalin that the Hitlers come and go, but the German people remain?
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 6 August 2013 17: 36
        0
        Quote: Karlsonn
        That is, the systematic destruction of civilians is not a war crime?

        Is an. And the Japanese with their constant war crimes have achieved the fact that they simply stopped counting them for people. At all. In the eyes of the Americans, they turned themselves into an absolute evil for which any means are good.
      3. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 6 August 2013 18: 33
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        In the eyes of the Americans, they turned themselves into an absolute evil, for which any means are good.


        Tell me the date when information about the atrocities of the Japanese in China, the Philippines and so on was brought to the soldiers and sailors of the United States. etc..

        I can only point out that the Germans and their allies were guided by a similar logic in relation to the civilian population of the USSR, the only difference is that the Germans considered our ancestors not "absolute evil" but subhumans.
      4. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 18: 52
        +1
        US soldiers and sailors have always been extremely kind and caring for the indigenous people of their native North America, the Philippines, New Guinea ... They were monstrously angry when they learned that the Japanese had carried out brutal reprisals against fraternal America by the Chinese people. Inflamed with righteous anger, the Americans moved to give fair anal punishment to the villains ...

        It was like that, I think ...
      5. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 6 August 2013 19: 13
        +1
        Quote: Iraclius
        It was like that, I think ...


        An example for Japan was the Paraguay war of the 1864-70 years and its results.
      6. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 20: 05
        +1
        In my opinion, the behavior of the US soldiers and sailors in World War II is the best illustration.
        I didn't want to develop this topic at all, but fanaticism and bloodthirstiness of a number of gentlemen are forcing. Lopatov, Pimpled, have you heard about such a phenomenon as the mass dismemberment of the bodies of Japanese prisoners by the Americans? Ashtrays (from skulls, in particular) and writing materials were often made of them. From the phalanges of the fingers, writing instruments were made - pens and pencils. It is known that Roosevelt himself received one such gift - a knife from a human hand. Gold teeth are a tasty treat for the Marines. They were sometimes beaten out of the still screaming, living Japanese. This fragment is colorfully shown in the serial film "War in the Pacific". Teeth folded into bags and served as one of the most valuable trophies. For a samurai skull, sailors paid the Marines about $ 40. Such things ... How will this wildness sound in your mouth? Justified cruelty? Or are the Americans a civilized people and the Japanese bloody Asians? Do you know that the Americans were brainwashed just fine, constantly convincing them that Japan only understands the language of the bombings. That the Japanese are non-humans, animals. The words seem to belong to Truman. Or Churchill, but that's not the point anymore.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 23: 43
    +1
    The question is not the atrocities of the Japanese. The question is that civilians are dying in war. For example, in the storming of Okinawa or during the bombing of Berlin. But the bombing of Berlin is different from the bombing of Kiev.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 6 August 2013 23: 56
    0
    The meaning of international military law is to minimize the loss of non-combatants.
    The premeditated murder of non-combatants (especially the mass one) is a war crime against humanity and is inhuman.
    Are you a supporter of barbaric warfare? To finish off the wounded, slaughter women and children? Tell me directly, otherwise you wander around and around.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 33
    -1
    Not. I just do not consider it necessary to apply modern military law to the conditions of that war and those circumstances.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 01: 55
    0
    The concept of a war crime is not classified into "was" or "now". It is always there. The fact that you do not consider it necessary to call senseless atomic bombings a war crime does not negate the fact that they are. No circumstances can justify a war crime.
    You do not understand a damn thing in legal terminology.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 02: 11
    -2
    Let's condemn Ivan the Terrible for the massacre in Nizhny Novgorod. Forward. For some reason I don’t hear crying over the Russian children drowned by him.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 14: 08
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    The question is not the atrocities of the Japanese. The question is that civilians are dying in war. For example, in the storming of Okinawa or during the bombing of Berlin. But the bombing of Berlin is different from the bombing of Kiev.

    It seems that Mr. Pimple has already forgotten what the conversation is about. And the conversation is about the fact that Lopatov and, in fact, you, are trying to justify the nuclear bombing of Japan by the fact that the Japanese got what they deserved. Lopatov writes directly about this. You add to this the military significance of the facilities in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, some kind of mythical "powerful" air defense that covered these facilities. I understand that all this is being done to ultimately belittle the role of the USSR in the end of World War II. In addition, some pathological Russophobia is clearly traced in your words.
    My arguments, as well as quotes from some American leaders, were unheard. Good. Ultima ratio regis.
    There is such a fundamental and relatively fresh work devoted to the problems. The work is called “Command Decisions” and yes, it is American. The authors of the work analyze numerous archival data and unequivocally show that the events in Manchuria became the cause of Japan's surrender. Explosions of nuclear bombs were absolutely useless from a military and moral-psychological point of view and did not affect the undermining of the fighting spirit of the Japanese. The Japanese headquarters shared the view of Field Marshal Hut, the commander of the 2th Combined Army, whose headquarters were in Hiroshima, about the need to continue the war. Arriving in Tokyo on 7 on August, he reported at headquarters that, although his headquarters were not far from the center of the blast, the buildings were destroyed little, and the number of dead soldiers was insignificant, only those who were not protected were injured. In general, in his opinion, Hiroshima suffered major damage, but not more than other cities from massive air raids.
    In addition, the very objects of military infrastructure, of which you constantly repeat the need to defeat, suffered little. This is evidenced by such facts that almost all the large factories and 94% of the people who worked for them survived in Hiroshima, and the railway connection through the city was restored after only 48 hours. To completely disable Nagasaki, it would take a few more bombs, which the Americans then did not have.
    The use of bombs only increased the hatred of the Japanese towards the Americans.
    The US leadership was well aware of this.
    Thus, it becomes completely obvious that, by conducting atomic bombings, Washington leaders actually aimed at the Soviet Union. This conclusion was directly reached by Japanese scientists, led by Nobel Prize winner physicist Hideki Yukawa in the White Paper on the consequences of the atomic bombing. In the section "Victim - Japan, the enemy - the Soviet Union", they note that the use of atomic bombs was not so much the last act of the Second World War as the first frightening operation in the outbreak of the Cold War against the USSR. "The lives of the three hundred thousand innocent people who died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki," the authors conclude, "were thus a sacrifice brought by the United States to the altar of the Cold War."
    At the same time, another famous Japanese scientist, Tsuyoshi Hasegawa from the University of California, also writes in his work "Racing the Enemy" that the atomic bombings had absolutely no consequences on the decision to surrender, namely the entry of the USSR into the war ...
    Do you still insist on the cannibalistic view that the atomic bombing of cities was justified? What is some kind of retribution?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 17
    +1
    Both Lopatov and I are talking about something completely different. The question is not about the "merits" of Japan - although their behavior in the war, I am sure, played a role in the use of the bomb: there were fewer deterrents. With wolves - like wolves.
    The point is that in that situation, in those conditions, in that war, at that particular moment in time, the use of the bomb was justified, since its non-use could lead to a much more bloody massacre.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 14: 29
    0
    Why are you lying? Read the post of Lopatov at the beginning of the branch - he directly writes there that it was revenge.
    I gave you quotes and links to scientific papers - American papers. Where it is said that the bombings did not matter in the sense of accelerating surrender.
    None of the Japanese knew that it was an atomic weapon and they did not know about the word "radiation". It was just a very huge, powerful bomb in their understanding and they did not yet know the consequences of its use.
    After the bombing of Tokyo, this is just another regular one.
    Thus, these were simply inhuman acts of demonstrating their technological and military power to the Allies.
    I remind you that Japan under the conditions of the blockade was able to hold out only until the end of autumn - this is in the opinion of the Japanese leadership.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 31
    0
    Quote: Iraclius
    I gave you quotes and links to scientific papers - American papers. Where it is said that the bombings did not matter in the sense of accelerating surrender.

    And there are others - in which it is written that the meaning was, and the most direct. AND?
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 14: 39
    0
    I’m still waiting for you to quote them. And then your cannibalistic point of view already looks very personal - this time. And unjustified by you personally - two.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 52
    0
    Accuse me of cannibalism, my pseudo-pacifist is a tuned friend, but wipe the milk on my lips. I ask again - where are your tears for the murdered German children?

    For example, Sherwin MJ A Word Destroyed. Hiroshima and the Origins of the Arms Race.
    Wyden P. Day One: Before Hiroshima and After
    Richard B. Frank "Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire" is one of the best historians on the subject.
  • Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 7 August 2013 21: 10
    +1
    Let's not touch Ivan IV, especially since he was not at war with the Russian kingdom. And modern military law was formed exactly in the late XIX - early XX centuries. St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, II Hague Convention of 1899, IV Hague Convention of 1907, Geneva Convention of 1929 - all of them gradually merged into the Geneva Convention of 1949.
  • 12345
    12345 6 August 2013 17: 09
    +1
    Quote: Karlsonn
    This is Nazism.


    + 100500!
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 09
    -2
    For that war and that situation, that was the right decision. The civilian population of a howling country is always conditionally peaceful. In the current conditions of local wars, with the overwhelming advantage of one of the parties, this would be a crime. In those conditions of intransigence of the Japanese trickster, this was the solution.
    1. 12345
      12345 6 August 2013 17: 15
      +3
      Quote: Pimply
      ... that was the right decision.


      To burn alive hundreds of thousands of people (including pregnant and infant babies) just because they were not lucky with the rulers?

      Vi, is he a cannibal?
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 29
      0
      Yes, you imagine, life is so unfair. They lived in a howling country. You did not smell gunpowder, you are an ardent anti-Semite, you think in double standards - and cry about Japanese kids? Cry also about the German. Well, or Chechen. Berlin had to be carefully fenced with a rope, not to bomb, but to ask everyone to politely give up. Bravo!
    3. 12345
      12345 6 August 2013 18: 28
      0
      Quote: Pimply
      Berlin had to be carefully fenced with a rope, not to bomb ...



      “One of the eyewitnesses, named Rademann, wrote to his mother a week later, on February 22:“ I will never forget the pictures of what was obviously mother and child. They crumpled, baked into each other and into the asphalt. The child, most likely, was under the mother, because it was still possible to clearly distinguish its contours and the mother's arms hugging him "" (http://www.vilavi.ru/prot/150307/150307.shtml)

      Your "methods"?
    4. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 23: 46
      +1
      Quote: 12345
      “One of the eyewitnesses, named Rademann, wrote to his mother a week later, on February 22:“ I will never forget the pictures of what was obviously mother and child. They crumpled, baked into each other and into the asphalt. The child, most likely, was under the mother, because it was still possible to clearly distinguish its contours and the mother's arms hugging him "" (http://www.vilavi.ru/prot/150307/150307.shtml)

      Your "methods"?


      No, not mine. So what? For some reason, you don’t howl at German children in Berlin, at Chechens in Grozny, and about Syrian Sunnis. You howl at those kids for which you are comfortable. I don’t need to beat my fists on my chest and sprinkle with saliva. You are not a pacifist. You are a red rag in front of your eyes AMERICANS. If you were a pacifist, the conversation would be different. And so - you are just a demagogue and anti-Semite, xenophobe, and fake.
  • Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 6 August 2013 17: 25
    +4
    Quote: Pimply
    For that war and that situation it was the right decision. The civilian population of a howling country is always conditionally peaceful.


    This thesis fully justifies the Holocaust and the atrocious destruction of the civilian population of the USSR during the occupation.
  • 12345
    12345 6 August 2013 18: 20
    +1
    Quote: Karlsonn
    This thesis justifies the Holocaust ...


    Hurry, hurry ...

    It was necessary to give this "gummy" an opportunity to get bogged down deeper in his theories "a la III Reich".
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 23: 48
    0
    Where can I get involved, dear man. Unless in your falsehood and demagoguery. Drop the bomb Vasily Ivanov - you would shout cheers, and say that the Germans (the Japanese, the finals) need it.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 12345
    12345 7 August 2013 13: 52
    -1
    Quote: Karlsonn
    Quote: Pimply
    Where can I get involved, dear man. Unless in your falsehood and demagoguery. Drop the bomb Vasily Ivanov - you would shout cheers, and say that the Germans (the Japanese, the finals) need it.


    Unlike you fascist, the Soviet Army was punished for war crimes.


    + 100500!
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 18
    0
    Bravo. And now you have an American flag. ;)
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 13: 59
    0
    Bravo. What else do you blame me for? Find punished for the two million killed Afghans, say, or killed during the bombing of German children. Surprisingly, they will not be. Because war is different from your fake humanism.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 14: 18
    0
    You have porridge in your skull. "Horses, people mixed in a heap ..." (c)
    How can you equate the events in the DRA, the Great Patriotic War and the atomic bombing of Japan?
    Everything that you breed here is called definitely and shortly - fascism.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 39
    0
    Quote: Iraclius
    How can you equate the events in the DRA, the Great Patriotic War and the atomic bombing of Japan

    Very simple - I can. A dead child is a dead child. And a dead child from a bomb that fell on Berlin from a Soviet plane is no different from a dead child from an atomic bomb in Japan, or a dead child in Leningrad. This is a child and he is dead. The whole question is in the causes and effects. War is a terribly unjust and bloody thing. On which ambiguous decisions are made and on which civilians are regularly killed.

    For that situation, the use of an atomic bomb was fully justified. Yes, they will argue for a long time and break their spears. But usually those who speak from pacifist positions, for some reason crying for one child, falsely turn a blind eye to others. Similarly, the dead. Because for you there are correctly dead children, and there are wrong dead children.

    Sorry, they aren’t for me - I’m not trying to fake it, and I accept the war as it is. Fortunately, modern warfare has recently left civilians far more likely to survive.

    What do you think, when stormed Berlin, there were a lot of thoughts about civilians? Not. They planted direct fire around the city. And the civilians did not care. Cry about these children. For some reason I do not see your tears.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 14: 58
    +2
    Why do you always transfer arrows to the USSR, Germany and now to the DRA?
    Was the USSR planning the German genocide? Not. Did the Nazis plan? Yes.
    The USSR used the doe doctrine? Not. Did the USSR carry out strategic carpet bombing? Not.
    But the United States and Britain - with pleasure, forgetting about the Amsterdam draft international rules prohibiting attacking civilian infrastructure outside the combat zone. And this was repeatedly violated by them during the hostilities.
    What do you want to prove this?
    All you appeal to are victims of war. This is an accident and inevitability. And it has nothing to do with the targeted bombing of civilians.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 15: 04
    -2
    Quote: Iraclius
    Why do you always transfer arrows to the USSR, Germany and now to the DRA?

    Because you don't care about Japanese children. It doesn't matter to you that they dropped an atomic bomb. What matters to you is that the Americans did it.
    I am pissed off by pseudo-humanists who pour crocodiles into tears for some dead children, and casually close their eyes to others. You are fake. When you figure out the internal falsity, you admit to yourself that the Americans just hate you, and you don’t care about dead children - then maybe we'll talk. And so ... Emptiness, falsehood and stamps - that’s what I see in you. Evil Americans ate Japanese children. Where are your tears for German children?
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 15: 51
    +2
    The word "Americans" does not play any role for me in the question. Only the very fact of the use of weapons of mass destruction against the civilian population.
    Equally, I condemn the carpet bombing of European cities in both Vietnam and the Middle East.
    It’s just that, unlike you, I don’t arrange a flood, I don’t move the arrows and I remember how the conversation started.
    All I affirm is the inapplicability of the methods of genocide against the people to achieve political goals and even more so the mass executions of the population indiscriminately - both war criminals and civilians. And how this is achieved — by crucifixion along the roads, by the conventional bombardments of Dresden or by nuclear bombings — of Japan — is the tenth thing and does not play a role for me.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 16: 26
    -1
    Quote: Iraclius
    The word "Americans" does not play any role for me in the question. Only the very fact of the use of weapons of mass destruction against the civilian population.

    And what difference does it make from which bomb the child died? Or died from carpet bombing or shelling of Berlin by artillery?
    For you, a child killed by a shell is more kosher than a child killed by a bomb? Or is there probably a bullet on the lower stage, then a projectile, then a bomb, then an atomic bomb? As I understand it?
  • Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 7 August 2013 21: 52
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    When you deal with the internal falsity

    For starters, it would be nice to understand the rules and customs of warfare.
    Yes, and constant transfers of arrows to the USSR is very bad. The USSR did not carry out systematic and targeted attacks on the civilian population and civilian infrastructure outside the combat zone.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 23: 47
    +1
    No, it does not justify. Concepts are easy to replace. One murder is not equivalent to another, and the bombing of Berlin by Soviet aircraft is not equivalent to the bombing of Kiev or Moscow by the Germans. The goals and priorities are different.
  • Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 7 August 2013 04: 35
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    No, it does not justify. Concepts are easy to replace. One murder is not equivalent to another, and the bombing of Berlin by Soviet aircraft is not equivalent to the bombing of Kiev or Moscow by the Germans. The goals and priorities are different.


    Well, let's compare the number of victims of Berlin from the Soviet bombing and the number of victims in Stalingrad.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 04
    0
    Have you decided to do phalometry here? Forward. You condemn any killing of civilians. Then condemn the USSR for the murdered German children, for the crippled. Why don't you pity them? Why don't you shed tears on them?
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 6 August 2013 17: 36
    +3
    Could not resist. What kind of nonsense are you talking about? What kind of casuistry? What does "conditionally peaceful" mean? What are you powdering all brains? Are you drunk or on drugs? There is international legislation, where such concepts as "combatant", "non-combatant", "mercenary" and so on are clearly spelled out.
    What do you constantly poke your nose at the fact that, at that time, everything was different and the people were different and the barbaric methods of warfare are therefore justified?
    The methods of warfare by such methods are unacceptable. Or does the end justify the means, yes?
  • Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 6 August 2013 18: 37
    +3
    Quote: Iraclius
    Could not resist. What kind of nonsense are you talking about? What kind of casuistry? What does "conditionally peaceful" mean?


    As I already said the thesis - "conditionally peaceful population", fits into both fascist and national socialist logic, it justifies: the atrocities of the Nazis in Europe, the USSR, the Holocaust, the atrocities of the Japanese in Asia, and yes, it justifies the nuclear bombing.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 6 August 2013 18: 57
    +6
    Well, there’s nothing to say. Actually, I don’t care about the Pupyrchaty nationality. I suspect that he is not a Jew, he does not care about historical truth in general and the fate of civilians killed during the war in particular. Most likely, an ordinary provocateur and troll, of which there are many now. Bored him ...
  • 12345
    12345 6 August 2013 20: 46
    +1
    Quote: Iraclius
    Actually, I don’t care about the Pupyrchaty nationality. I suspect that he is not a Jew ...


    Probably. But he really wants to. Therefore, he tries to look "holier than the Pope".
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 09
    0
    What else do you suspect? You already called me a troll. 8) You do not know how to argue your theses and discuss. Only you can try to insult. Forward. I will laugh. Porzhu.
  • Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 7 August 2013 04: 36
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    Forward. I will laugh. Porzhu.


    You, too, are limping in argumentation, but as a person who justifies war crimes, say so.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 04
    +1
    And you are fake. For you, the main thing is not Japanese children, and the word AMERICANS. That's all. You are a fake humanist.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 08
    0
    The thesis of conditionally civilians fits into any war.
    To fight at all is a crime. Nevertheless, everyone is at war.
  • Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 7 August 2013 04: 37
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    The thesis of conditionally civilians fits into any war.


    How so?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 06
    +1
    So that the civilian population is workers who work in factories and provide the army, people who can shoot or do auxiliary work in the interests of the army or rebel forces, intelligence, etc. Grow up at last.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 07
    0
    I am not talking nonsense. For starters, there is no such thing as international law. The only attempt by an international court is the court in The Hague. Failed completely. There are a number of generally accepted norms, but they are not uniform for all countries. For Nuremberg, for example, a separate tribunal was created and its powers and jurisdiction were specified. Moreover, a number of issues were previously excluded by agreement of the parties.

    Japan, for example, did not ratify the Geneva Convention of 1929 - which, incidentally, had a strong effect on prisoners, and therefore did not fall under it.

    The IV Hague Convention of 1907 was also violated by Japan, which, de jure, removed it from its jurisdiction.

    Well, in fact, there are too many conventions that the winner can interpret in his favor and against the loser.
    Better not get into it - it will fail. If we go around the jurisdiction, there are so many failures in international humanitarian law of the time (starting from the fact that you can simply stop recognizing the state).
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 7 August 2013 00: 28
    +2
    Again nonsense. There is international law, there is an International Criminal Court, and there is the concept of a war crime. One point is the senseless destruction of cities and the deliberate destruction of cultural property. And how this is done is the tenth matter.
    And the Americans did it.
    I have already given you many arguments about the anti-humanity of the atomic bombing of Japan. At the same time, I did not offend you in any way, and all 54 of my posts in this thread is precisely a discussion. With you and Lopatov mainly. If sometimes causticity slips in my posts, then I apologize - a bad character trait. But I myself can’t forgive your justification for the genocide and the murder of non-combatants, do not blame me.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 36
    -1
    Please give me a definition of international law, who is in the zone of his jurisdiction, which UK applies. Then give a definition of the state. Then look, when the International Criminal Court appeared, and look who signed its jurisdiction.

    Do not measure the military 1945th peaceful framework of 2013th.
  • S-200
    S-200 6 August 2013 18: 00
    +3
    In Hiroshima, the headquarters of the Fifth Division and the Second Main Army of Field Marshal Shunroku Hata, who commanded the defense of all of South Japan, was located. Hiroshima was an important supply base for the Japanese army ..
    Nagasaki is the port central city in Japan. It is the administrative center of Nagasaki Prefecture. One of the fleets of Japan was based.
    The city has a naval arsenal ..
    If a bomb were dropped on the imperial palace, then WHO would be hung up after the apostle ... ??
    The adequacy of the revenge of the Americans is beyond doubt ... like the polite Japanese Nazism of that time ..
    The Japanese military acted much more cruelly and bloodthirsty towards the enslaved civilians and prisoners!
    History shows that this lesson is still valid for Japan ... (with minor reservations on territorial claims)
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 6 August 2013 18: 44
      +2
      Quote: S-200
      In Hiroshima, the headquarters of the Fifth Division and the Second Main Army of Field Marshal Shunroku Hata, who commanded the defense of all of South Japan, was located.


      How many forces were in this army? What resistance could the Second Main Army have?


      Quote: S-200
      Hiroshima was an important supply base for the Japanese army ..


      And how was this army supplied after the defeat of the Japanese fleet near the Philippine Islands, and most importantly what?

      Quote: S-200
      One of the fleets of Japan was based.


      YES WHAT A pancake fleet ?! Remind me what the fuel reserves were at 1945 in Japan.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 30
      0
      Quote: Karlsonn

      And how was this army supplied after the defeat of the Japanese fleet near the Philippine Islands, and most importantly what?

      It's funny We are talking about a large industrial center, and even in the center of Japan, and not somewhere on the islands. Apparently nothing, sat naked and helpless. However, various kinds of militia firearms really did not have enough. But this did not apply to regular parts.

      The forces that were allocated to protect the islands of the mother country, in numerical terms, 2 million 350 thousand officers and soldiers of the regular army and army aviation. These were 53 infantry divisions, 25 infantry brigades, 2 divisions and 7 brigades of armored forces. Air defense was assigned to four air defense divisions. Due to possible problems with internal security, the military police forces were increased to 20 thousand people. In addition to the regular army, there were 2 people in the ranks of army building units, 250 in the building units of the fleet and 000 were in the Special Garrison Standard Type Infantry Division In 1
      Total: 16000, 3466 horses or mules:
      3 infantry regiments - 2850 people each
      1 field artillery regiment - 2360 people
      1 reconnaissance regiment - 440 people
      1 engineer regiment - 900 people
      1 transport regiment - 750 people
      Armament: 6867 rifles, 273 light and 78 machine guns, 264 50 mm mortar / grenade launchers, 14 37 mm or 47 mm anti-tank guns, 18 70 mm battalion guns, 12 75 mm regimental guns, 36 field guns and howitzers 75-, 105- and 150-mm, 16 armored vehicles or tank forces.

      He gave the name a little wrong. Second command. The Second Command was formed on February 8, 1945 by dividing the former High Command of Defense into the First and Second Command. The Second Command included the 15th Front (Kansai and Tyugoku Districts, Shikoku Island) and the 16th Front (Kyushu Island).

      The 15th front included
      55th Army
      59th Army
      114th Infantry Division
      225th Infantry Division
      121st separate mixed brigade

      16th front:
      40-th Army
      56-th Army
      57-th Army
      25 I Infantry Division
      57 I Infantry Division
      77 I Infantry Division
      206 I Infantry Division
      212 I Infantry Division
      216 I Infantry Division
      64th Separate Mixed Brigade
      107th Separate Mixed Brigade
      118th Separate Mixed Brigade
      122th Separate Mixed Brigade
      126th Separate Mixed Brigade

      Army - 4 divisions. Count yourself.

      The combat readiness in these units was low, but this does not mean that they could not be thrown into a meat grinder. By all accounts, the atomic bombing destroyed the Second Command as an organizational command structure.
    3. Iraclius
      Iraclius 7 August 2013 00: 45
      0
      The list looks impressive, but you forget the most important thing - Japan is an island state, which even during the periods of conditional authorship was extremely dependent on trade with the mainland. Under the conditions of the blockade, it was doomed and the political leadership of the United States was well aware of this. The attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki had exclusively political goals and because of this look even more inhumane. The very necessity of invading the islands was justified only under the condition of the alleged war with the USSR, the preparation for which was underway. What other arguments are required?
    4. Pimply
      Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 37
      0
      Yeah. Extremely political. An army of a million people and a large industrial center is a nominal goal. Oh well.
  • Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 7 August 2013 04: 46
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    It's funny We are talking about a large industrial center, and even in the center of Japan, and not somewhere on the islands.


    What a mate. was the provision of the parts you listed actually? Was there fuel for tanks and navy? How was the ammunition? WITH FOOD? With communications? ETC. ETC.

    ONCE AGAIN - if you do not know the history of military operations on the TTD - ask --- I will prompt hi
    After capturing the island of Saipan, American B-29 bombers could wipe Japan off the map, which was partly done.

    Quote: Pimply
    By all accounts, the atomic bombing destroyed the Second Command as an organizational command structure.


    I recommend - do not meddle in a topic that you do not know, Google will not help you --- I will crush it with facts. bully
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 08
    +1
    Quote: Karlsonn
    After capturing the island of Saipan, American B-29 bombers could wipe Japan off the map, which was partly done.

    And what are you trying to prove to me? What is killing with conventional bombs more humane than killing with an atomic bomb? No, it remains a murder.

    Quote: Karlsonn
    I recommend - do not meddle in a topic that you do not know, Google will not help you --- I will crush it with facts.

    Forward. Maybe at last you will introduce them to me and learn to state them.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 10
    +2
    Good voice. At last.
  • Gari
    Gari 6 August 2013 13: 00
    +6
    Quote: Spade
    It was not after Nanking that the Americans stopped considering the Japanese people. And after operations to exterminate the Chinese population in Singapore and the Philippines, the shooting of the destroyer Edsall, the Baatan death march, the massacre in Manila and the legalization of cannibalism in New Guinea

    Good afternoon dear - cruelty strikes cruelty
    But it’s clear that there was a war, but so over the years of the war, the company of strategic bombings of Japan was carried out by the US Air Force from 1942 to 1945. During the last 7 months of the campaign, the emphasis was on bombing with incendiary bombs, which led to significant destruction of 67 Japanese cities, leading to the deaths of about 500,000 Japanese and made about 5 million people homeless.
    I think the reason was different and the goal too:
    The English newspaper "The Independent" has become that rare edition today, which with its article - "Hiroshima - a war crime that has been persecuting my family for 67 years", reminded the people of the Earth about the nuclear tragedy and the crime of America.
    General Eisenhower refutes it: "Japan has already been defeated ... the bombing was an absolutely unnecessary measure, not caused by necessity." Admiral Nimitz, commander of the Pacific Fleet, agrees with him: “In fact, the Japanese have already asked for peace. From a purely military point of view, the explosion of an atomic bomb did not play any decisive role for their final defeat. ”
    Admiral Legi, who led the Presidential Truman Chiefs of Staff, also shares this view: “The nuclear attack did not have any significant impact on the course of the war with Japan. The Japanese were ready to give up ... "
    1. Gari
      Gari 6 August 2013 13: 43
      +6
      And yet, of course, the USSR made the main role in defeating Japan.
      "Victory over Japan can only be guaranteed if the Japanese ground forces are defeated" - this was the opinion of General MacArthur, commander-in-chief of the American armed forces in the Pacific
      A special memorandum from the Joint Chiefs of Staff of December 23, 1944 stated: "Russia's entry into the war as soon as possible ... is necessary to provide maximum support for our operations in the Pacific."
      Former US Secretary of State E. Stetginius, who took part in the work of the Yalta Conference, wrote: "On the eve of the Crimean Conference, the chiefs of American staff convinced Roosevelt that Japan could capitulate only in 1947 or later, and its defeat could cost America a million soldiers."
      On the night of August 9, advanced battalions and reconnaissance detachments of three fronts in extremely adverse weather conditions - the summer monsoon, bringing frequent and heavy rains - marched onto enemy territory. With the dawn, the main forces of the Transbaikal and 1st Far Eastern fronts went on the offensive and crossed the state border.
      On August 17, having completely lost control of the scattered troops and realizing the futility of further resistance, the Commander-in-Chief of the Kwantung Army, General Otozo Yamada, ordered to begin negotiations with the Soviet High Command in the Far East.
      Since August 19, Japanese forces almost everywhere began to capitulate. 148 Japanese generals, 594 thousand officers and soldiers were captured.

      The victory won by the Soviet Armed Forces in the Far East was a vivid testimony of the power of the socialist social and state system, a new triumph of Soviet military art!
      1. Gari
        Gari 6 August 2013 13: 46
        +7
        In the Japanese government, the beginning of military operations by the Soviet Union caused panic. "The entry of the Soviet Union into the war this morning," Prime Minister Suzuki said on August 9, "puts us finally in a desperate situation and makes it impossible to continue the war."
        Thus, it was the actions of the Soviet Armed Forces, as recognized by the Japanese leadership, and not the atomic bombing of Japanese cities by American aircraft, carried out on August 6 and 9, that decided the fate of Japan and accelerated the end of World War II.
        The mass destruction of the population of Japanese cities was not dictated by any military necessity. For the ruling circles of the United States, the atomic bomb was not so much an act of the end of World War II as the first step in the Cold War against the USSR.
  • DEfindER
    DEfindER 6 August 2013 12: 28
    +5
    Quote: Iraclius
    When did the USA harness for someone there besides itself?

    True, it is known that there was no military sense in these bombings, the Japanese army was already defeated and surrender was a matter of the near future, the only goal was to show who was the boss on the planet. And the fact that 70% of the city’s population was destroyed at a time is already a side effect .. Well, the fact that Yapis are cruel is only with China that they had eternal graters, there are many such examples of cruelty in the world, in Arab countries and Africa in conflicts in general without exception, all civilians were cut out ..
    Well, amers are the same cutthroats, but instead of a machete, they have advanced toys .. what they did in Vietnam by their cruelty can not be compared to any wars, the Vietnamese genocide was stupid there.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 13: 52
      +1
      The military meaning is the most direct - the destruction of civilian infrastructure undermines the overall combat readiness of the army and the population’s ability to resist.
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 14: 07
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        undermines the overall combat readiness of the army

        Which is practically nonexistent and it cannot sail away anywhere to strike.

        Quote: Pimply
        ability of the population to resist

        Resistance to whom? The Americans did not dare to invade - Okinawa was enough.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 6 August 2013 14: 49
          -2
          Quote: Iraclius
          Resistance to whom? The Americans did not dare to invade - Okinawa was enough.

          The Americans acted wisely. They had a powerful weapon - and they used it. And the invasion was not required.
          Quote: Iraclius
          Which is practically nonexistent and it cannot sail away anywhere to strike.

          Well, of course. She is not and she is a myth.
      2. DEfindER
        DEfindER 6 August 2013 14: 09
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        The military meaning is the most direct - the destruction of civilian infrastructure undermines the overall combat readiness of the army and the population’s ability to resist.

        Those. Are you for the terrorist way of achieving goals, killing civilians to solve political problems?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 6 August 2013 14: 55
          -1
          Oh, and I was waiting for someone to hysterically be the first to rush to make me the main villain 8).

          I am for the fact that the war is considered a war and not try to shift the modern realities at that time. Modern high-precision weapons can be relatively humane in relation to the civilian population. Then there was a hellish meat grinder, and there were a number of very serious reasons why the Americans used such methods - and they were not alone. Soviet troops did not choose civilian or non-civilian targets during the bombing of Berlin in 1941, and even afterwards. Berlin and other cities simply bombed. That is, there were specific tasks, but often just the city was bombarded with bombs. That's all. Do not project modern reality onto that war.

          Did you participate in the fighting? I tend to assume that no. Those who participated evaluate the war much more soberly.
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 6 August 2013 15: 00
            +1
            Although you, Zhenya, are a Zionist, but you have to give you your due, you are phoning! Here you are right
          2. DEfindER
            DEfindER 6 August 2013 18: 15
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            Soviet troops did not choose civilian or non-civilian targets during the bombing of Berlin in 1941, and even afterwards. Berlin and other cities simply bombed.

            Do you generally distinguish conventional weapons from weapons of mass destruction or are you indifferent? When Soviet troops bombed German cities, the main targets were Siemens, Henkel, etc. And when the whole city with the entire population is simply burned out, it’s clearly not for military purposes, but simply a deterrence for everyone else ..
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 42
              0
              Oh oh Read about the bombing of Berlin, for example, in 1941, say.
  • rolik
    rolik 6 August 2013 13: 38
    +4
    Quote: Spade
    Yes. And you turn the other cheek as your heart desires

    No need to turn the other cheek. You must always answer and respond harshly. But where does the children and the elderly? And the use of nuclear weapons against the population is the height of cynicism and sadism. Moreover, it was not used to end the war, but because it was necessary to show the USSR that mattresses have new weapons. At the time of its application, the war was already won.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 14: 56
      0
      Despite the fact that in addition to children and the elderly, workers lived in these cities, the Japanese army supported these cities, and the destruction of these cities pressed the psyche of Japanese soldiers. Judging by your logic, it was necessary to blow off dust particles from Berlin - because there are women, old people and children. Right?
      1. DEfindER
        DEfindER 7 August 2013 09: 31
        0
        Quote: Pimply
        and the destruction of these cities put pressure on the psyche of Japanese soldiers

        The destruction of these cities put pressure on the psyche of all mankind, which amers sought.
        Quote: Pimply
        Judging by your logic, it was necessary to blow off dust particles from Berlin - because there are women, old people and children. Right?

        The art of war, you know, is to achieve the goal with the least casualties among peaceful not only friends but also strangers, and atomic bombing is some kind of anti-art, when the target is primarily punitively frightening, i.e. stupid terror ..
        Quote: Pimply
        these cities supported the Japanese army

        I already wrote that by that time the Japanese army was no longer a threat.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 11
          +1
          Quote: DEfindER

          The destruction of these cities put pressure on the psyche of all mankind, which amers sought.

          Without any doubt. Someone said that the Americans tried to achieve one goal?


          Quote: DEfindER
          The art of war, you know, is to achieve the goal with the least casualties among peaceful not only friends but also strangers, and atomic bombing is some kind of anti-art, when the target is primarily punitively frightening, i.e. stupid terror ..

          War is not art. Bloody massacre cannot be art.


          Quote: DEfindER
          I already wrote that by that time the Japanese army was no longer a threat.

          That is why 12000 marines were killed in Okinawa, and the Japanese army in the metropolis amounted to several million armed men. The dangers are zero.

          Yes, they had no chance of victory. AND? Does this mean the harmlessness of the Japanese?
          1. DEfindER
            DEfindER 8 August 2013 11: 15
            +1
            Quote: Pimply
            War is not art. Bloody massacre cannot be art.

            I agree with you, the art of killing sounds disgusting, war is evil and nothing else ..
            Quote: Pimply
            That is why 12000 marines were killed in Okinawa, and the Japanese army in the metropolis amounted to several million armed men. The dangers are zero.

            And what do you think, surrender is possible when not a single soldier is left alive? Who will capitulate then? Look how events developed then, when the apony army was already defeated and did not pose a danger, the amers demanded that the Yapis abolish the post of emperor, and there were still a lot of slavish capitulation conditions that turned Japan into a colony, the Yapis could not agree to this, but in the end they had to were agree to see the threat of complete destruction .. the states acted like an ordinary terrorist, they killed the hostages gradually, they had to kill two until their conditions were met.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 8 August 2013 14: 11
              0
              The situation was in anticipation of surrender, but the Japanese could still kill a lot of American and Soviet soldiers, if this decision were not made.

              The states behaved accordingly to that era, that war and those conditions. What, would you suggest that the USSR wait until the Germans sign the surrender on the border with Germany, say?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 13: 37
    0
    That is, if it is possible to break the enemy’s resistance without killing their soldiers with hundreds of thousands, they do it. And if the USSR dropped the bomb on Berlin, for example, no one would have had any questions here. And so - dumped vile Americans.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 13: 36
    +1
    In China alone, about 17 million people were killed.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 6 August 2013 13: 56
      0
      Have you heard about the Dutch massacre of the Chinese in Batavia? So what? Do you distinguish between 10000, 100000 and 17000000 people? Me not.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 08
        +1
        Yes. 1740th year. "Valkenir was later recalled to the Netherlands on charges of massacre crimes." AND? How does this relate to the war, which was going on two centuries later?
    2. DEfindER
      DEfindER 6 August 2013 14: 12
      0
      Quote: Pimply
      In China alone, about 17 million people were killed.

      And we have 26 million, so they are up to Adolf Aloizovich as to China ..
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 03
        -1
        Did you do phalometry? Where more were cut out, and were the Japanese bloodthirsty of the Germans? Do not explain what it is?
        1. DEfindER
          DEfindER 8 August 2013 10: 58
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          Did you do phalometry? Where more were cut out, and were the Japanese bloodthirsty of the Germans? Do not explain what it is?

          Moreover, your argument about the number of victims in China does not justify the atomic bombing, because even the Soviet Union suffered disproportionately more than the United States, did not intend to wipe German cities off the face of the earth, although there were more than enough bombs.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 8 August 2013 14: 13
            -1
            Where not going, if German cities were bombed daily and fired from all guns. The whole difference is that the USSR at that time did not have such a bomb. That's all.
  • rolik
    rolik 6 August 2013 13: 54
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki - only retribution

    Following this logic, let's abide all the Mongols. We will avenge them on the yoke. They also burned children and the elderly in churches, tore up horses, broke ridges. Let's fucking about him nuclear weapons.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 05
      0
      At that time, there was no war with the Mongols. But the USA had a war with Japan. Like the war with Germany in the USSR and the States. And that the USSR, that the States, that Britain bombed the Germans very hard, without making much difference who is down in the city - a child or a soldier. Yes, military objectives were a priority. But only a priority, no more.
  • Natalia
    Natalia 6 August 2013 14: 33
    +1
    Japan is seeking the elimination of nuclear weapons around the world. This was announced today by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe during a speech at a memorial ceremony in Hiroshima.
    “Japan is the only country in the world that has survived the nuclear bombing,” the correspondent quoted him as saying. ITAR-TASS Yaroslav Makarov. “We have a special responsibility, and therefore we will continue to ensure that there are no more nuclear weapons in this world.”

    Then since you are such a noble samurai, is it fair to start with the one who bombed you? Is not it?
    Or not, and you (the Japanese, I mean) prefer the annual traditional "doggystyle"
    Kazumi Matsui, Mayor of Hiroshima, read out the “Declaration of Peace” - traditional annual (since 1947)
    instead of kneeling and stop humiliation in front of the United States.

    PS ... and most importantly, stop begging for islands from Russia, here Russia is precisely what Japan owes nothing to, unlike those who are so tough on you ... all things.
    1. Natalia
      Natalia 6 August 2013 15: 10
      +6
      I express my most sincere condolences to the Japanese on the occasion of the anniversary of those terrible events, but at the same time I am very, very perplexed ...

      Every year, mourn the dead (snot fist for a fist) they say that we are the poorest and most miserable. But at the same time, every day licking all the details to the Americans and groveling on a short leash ... and at the same time, Russia remains the main enemy of Japan.
      Yes, if you want to know, by friendship with America, Japan betrays and defames the memory of the fallen from nuclear bombing.

      You, of course, excuse me all, but I do not understand such tricks and do not want to understand.
  • stroporez
    stroporez 6 August 2013 16: 47
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    For the atrocities that the Japanese did.
    but tell me please, if so to speak, "take revenge" with the same methods, then why is the revengeful better than them !! ?????????????? WWII reduced my Rod by 3 \ 4 ...... but I don’t think my grandfather should have turned everyone into minced meat in Germany ........... he would have become the same as those who came to us
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 12
      +2
      Not. But your great-grandfather was not supposed to die. And if the USSR had a bomb at that time, then to save its soldiers it would, without a doubt, be used against any city in Germany.
      1. stroporez
        stroporez 6 August 2013 17: 21
        0
        defining moment ---- "would" .. sho now to argue ........ and yet, my grandfather did not die. fled from the camp four times (I myself am surprised that they did not "slap" for such a tendency), ended the war in Vienna, Austria .... died in 1951 ....... his colleagues came to his grandmother in the village by May 9 until the collapse .......
  • abdrah
    abdrah 6 August 2013 17: 35
    +2
    Good descendants of the samurai slaughtered the Chinese like cattle, not even translating cartridges, not counting. The total Chinese losses in the War are estimated from 40 to 80 million, but for some reason these colossal victims were not included in the general statistics of the victims of World War II.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 49
      0
      Somewhat less. About 17 to 25 million more sober estimates.
  • S-200
    S-200 6 August 2013 17: 48
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    Only one figure: 350 to 500 thousand people died in Nanjing during a planned multi-day massacre

    and our Lazo in a firebox of a locomotive - burned!
  • waisson
    waisson 6 August 2013 09: 20
    45
    not a bomb is absolute evil, but evil is those who dropped it and they still continue to sow evil around the world.
    Eternal memory to innocent victims.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 6 August 2013 10: 10
      +9
      Quote: waisson
      and evil is those who threw it


      Paul Warfield Tibbets Jr. dropped the first atomic bomb on the Japanese city of Hiroshima B-29 pilot called "Enola Gay" (In honor of the pilot's mother, not what you thought)

      "I am proud that I was able, starting from nothing, to plan the operation and carry out it as flawlessly as I did ... I sleep peacefully every night."

      This is such a frostbitten Yankee, but if you think that he is the only one mistaken, One of the pilots of those times, in an interview in post-perestroika time, answered the question: “Would you drop an atomic bomb on Moscow if you were ordered?” replied: "Yes, I would have dropped it to New York if I had been ordered."
      1. vitek1233
        vitek1233 6 August 2013 10: 40
        +3
        it’s an army, but in the army of democracy there can be no other
        1. 755962
          755962 6 August 2013 11: 26
          +4
          Quote: vitek1233
          it’s an army, but in the army of democracy there can be no other

          This is a POLITICAL action aimed at showing the Soviet Union who is in the "house" x ...
          The army was just a performer ...
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 48
            +2
            Quote: 755962
            This is a POLITICAL action aimed at showing the Soviet Union who is in the "house" x ...

            Including. However, this was not her only purpose.
            1. 755962
              755962 7 August 2013 01: 12
              0
              Half of Japanese schoolchildren believe that the USSR dropped atomic bombs on Japanese cities
              http://vragi-naroda.net/?p=205

              I remember Orwell: "who controls the past, controls the future. Those who control the present, control the past" ... Under the strict guidance of the Anglo-Saxons, history is not only erased and forgotten, but also adjusted in accordance with the geopolitical interests of the United States
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 6 August 2013 10: 46
        +7
        Quote: Vadivak
        Yes, I would have dropped to New York, if ordered

        Good soldiers. No, no jokes. As for frostbite, they complied with the order. Responsibility for nuclear bombing lies slightly above their level. And they are just good soldiers.
      3. AK-47
        AK-47 6 August 2013 11: 12
        +1
        Quote: Vadivak
        Paul Warfield Tibbets Jr. dropped the first atomic bomb on the Japanese city of Hiroshima B-29 pilot called "Enola Gay" (In honor of the pilot's mother, not what you thought)

        The same "ENOLA GAY" that dropped the bomb.
        Paul Warfield Tibbets Jr. (center) with crew.
      4. Pimply
        Pimply 6 August 2013 13: 53
        +2
        And if Vasily Sergeyevich Ivanov had been in the place of Paul Warfield Tibbets Jr., you would have stood behind him now. 8)
        1. MVS
          MVS 6 August 2013 14: 00
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          And if Vasily Sergeyevich Ivanov had been in the place of Paul Warfield Tibbets Jr., you would have stood behind him now. 8)

          But it so happened that in the place of the crew commander was Paul Warfield Tibbets Jr., not Vasily Sergeevich Ivanov. "If only" is not appropriate here.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 10
            0
            Why is it not appropriate. Quite. The main trigger here is the word "Americans", not the hapless Japanese children and old people. "Evil Americans" are - and barking rushed. This is called "double standards"
            1. MVS
              MVS 6 August 2013 18: 07
              0
              Quote: Pimply
              Why not appropriate.

              Because history has no subjunctive moods.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 50
                0
                Oh, how else. Look how they put it together here and there. 8)
        2. Russ69
          Russ69 6 August 2013 15: 04
          +3
          Quote: Pimply
          And if Vasily Sergeyevich Ivanov had been in the place of Paul Warfield Tibbets Jr., you would have stood behind him now. 8)

          If the first atomic bombing had been carried out by Vasily Sergeyevich Ivanov, then now everyone was keen on kicking Russia. Enough of those tales that they love to bring in the West now about millions of raped and executed. I can imagine how indignant the geyropa is now, we are the first to drop the atomic bomb.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 55
            -3
            Quote: Russ69
            Enough of those tales that they love to bring in the West now about millions of raped and executed.

            There were enough people who were shot and raped. It is worth reading the memoirs of front-line soldiers. By the way, especially in rape, the Mongols were distinguished - their units were dressed in Soviet uniforms. Anthony Beevor, in his book "The Fall of Berlin. 1945", in one of the chapters carefully and fairly impartially examines this topic. He notes that the relationship of Soviet soldiers with German women went through several stages, from direct and gross mass rapes through giving oneself "under the protection" of a particular soldier to the voluntary or semi-voluntary sale of "love" for food and other goods, and then to the formation of more or less stable couples. However, quite quickly serious atrocities were stopped, and many rapists or murderers went to court.

            Here about geyropu we come to the main thing. You don’t care about the dead Japanese children, mothers, old people. You are offended that the USSR was not the first to drop the bomb.
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 6 August 2013 16: 01
              +1
              We sympathize with the Japanese wives for the elderly and children. We do not care that the Yankees first threw a bomb. The main thing is that thanks to Joseph Vissarionovich, parity was achieved!
              1. Nu daaaa ...
                Nu daaaa ... 7 August 2013 00: 42
                -1
                Well, you and the comedian however. Not thanks to Joseph Vissarionovich, but thanks to German physicists. Professors Manfred von Ardenne, Nikolaus Riel, M. Folmer and P.A. Thyssen, physicist Max Steenbeck and others.



                http://lib.rus.ec/b/400704/read
            2. Iraclius
              Iraclius 6 August 2013 16: 02
              0
              Quote: Pimply
              Here about geyropu we come to the main thing. You don’t care about the dead Japanese children, mothers, old people. You are offended that the USSR was not the first to drop the bomb.

              Everything is clear, an ordinary troll provocateur. Yes, and with obvious sadistic inclinations. All to you, good, Pimple.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 6 August 2013 16: 12
                -4
                Quote: Iraclius
                Everything is clear, an ordinary troll provocateur. Yes, and with obvious sadistic inclinations. All to you, good, Pimple.

                Is this the only thing you can say? Do you have enough arguments for something more intelligible? Go, wash your tongue with soap - you have it dirty.
                1. 12345
                  12345 6 August 2013 19: 26
                  +2
                  Quote: Pimply
                  Go, wash your tongue with soap - you have it dirty.


                  "Pot calls the kettle black!" ©
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 51
                    -1
                    Bravo! And now - add another pepper 8)
        3. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 16: 37
          0
          Quote: Pimply
          And if

          And if it weren’t, it was Paul Warfield Tibbets Jr. Everything else is an alternative story, you can simulate anything.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 6 August 2013 17: 13
            0
            In this case, everyone sings about how sorry they are for Japanese children. It's a lie. They do not spare children, but simply hate Americans. So it is necessary to write, and do not try to pretend to be a fleur of humanism.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 10: 19
      22
      Quote: waisson
      those who threw it away and still continue to sow evil around the world.

      Why don't we raise the issue in the UN on recognizing the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a war crime and an act of genocide, and after that in Vietnam also raise the issue of using chemical weapons prohibited by the UN convention.
      1. танк
        танк 6 August 2013 10: 35
        11
        Look how these nice kind creatures (Japanese) experimented on living people, executed hundreds of Chinese and everything that was next to them, including Russians. At that time they captured the whole Far East.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 11: 16
          +2
          Quote: tank
          Look how these lovely good creatures (Japanese) experimented on living people, executed hundreds of Chinese and everything that was next to them, including Russians

          What is the reason to destroy women, the elderly and children?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 6 August 2013 11: 29
            +5
            If they read with approval articles about the valiant competition of two officers in Nanjing "who will chop off 100 heads faster"? Maybe yes. The Japanese, unlike the Germans, were not quiet, they painted everything in the press in colors and paints. And the "civilian population" provided the fullest moral support to such actions.
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 6 August 2013 11: 51
              0
              And you wondered why on the eve of the war in the country there was such a patriotic upsurge and there were practically no pacifist sentiments? Remember the results of the Washington Conference? Do you know what was the fear that the revolution from China would spread to the islands and plunge them into chaos and civil war? The advent of General Tanaka’s cabinet in 1927 to power was a consequence, not a cause.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 6 August 2013 12: 09
                +2
                Who cares? We started the war, got the result.
                1. Iraclius
                  Iraclius 6 August 2013 12: 17
                  0
                  Those. if my neighbors will not let me go to the store, threaten that they will arrange a brothel in my house and force me to change my faith, should I quietly sit and wait? Poorly consistent with your Bible quote about the cheek.
                  Strange logic. I don’t get it. Do you want to justify Japan’s nuclear bombing?
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 6 August 2013 12: 22
                    0
                    Yeah, you’ll go to these neighbors, rape your wife and eldest daughter, make your father rape the youngest, and then cut off their heads. Did I understand you correctly?
                    The strange logic is clearly with you. The logic of justifying aggressive nationalism and the atrocities associated with them.
                    1. Iraclius
                      Iraclius 6 August 2013 13: 05
                      +1
                      No, I'm just showing that there is no smoke without fire. You begin to carry nonsense about some justice and fair American retaliation.
                      For what? The United States and Britain pursued the same colonial policy, but for some reason you justify the United States. Do you think the Correchidors were happy with the white colonizers? Oh well...
                      True, each has its own Japanese leadership and still stubbornly denies the scale of the Nanking massacre. Who knows how it was in reality?
                      But the results of the nuclear bombing before the eyes do not require evidence.
                      I do not condone the Japanese, but war criminals had to answer for the events in Manila, Bataan and Nanjing in the face of the tribunal and then go to the scaffold. And you say that the elderly and children in Japan suffered a fair punishment.
                      And you, Lopatov, a cynic ... Thank you, I will know.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 6 August 2013 13: 28
                        0
                        And what kind of punishment had to be borne by those civilians who enthusiastically read the articles about heroic competitions in the butchering of heads? Those who fully and completely supported the atrocities of the military? Are they kind of "out of business" in your opinion?
                      2. Iraclius
                        Iraclius 6 August 2013 13: 38
                        +1
                        In Hiroshima and Nagasaki, all Chinese seppuku fans gathered "who is faster"? Or all members of Unit 731?
                        They have written to you many times that it was pointless from a military point of view, and the court should punish the criminals, not the bomber and the nuclear bomb.
                      3. Pimply
                        Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 14
                        0
                        Not. It was just that they were large industrial cities.

                        At its second meeting in Los Alamos (May 10–11, 1945), the Goal Selection Committee recommended Kyoto, Hiroshima, Yokohama, and Kokuru as targets for atomic weapons. The committee rejected the idea of ​​using these weapons against a purely military target, as there was a chance to miss a small area not surrounded by a vast urban area.
                        When choosing a goal, great importance was attached to psychological factors, such as:
                        achieving the maximum psychological effect against Japan,
                        the first use of weapons should be significant enough for international recognition of its importance.
                        The committee pointed out that Kyoto was favored by the fact that its population had a higher level of education and, thus, was better able to appreciate the importance of weapons. Hiroshima, on the other hand, was of such size and location that, given the focusing effect of the surrounding hills, most of the city could be destroyed.
                        US Secretary of War Henry Stimson struck Kyoto off the list due to the city’s cultural significance.

                        On July 24, during the Potsdam Conference, US President Harry Truman informed Stalin that the United States had new weapons of unprecedented destructive power. Truman did not specify that he was referring to atomic weapons. According to Truman's memoirs, Stalin did not show much interest, noting only that he was glad and hoped that the United States would be able to effectively use it against the Japanese.

                        On July 26, the governments of the United States, Britain and China signed the Potsdam Declaration, which set out the demand for unconditional surrender of Japan. The atomic bomb was not mentioned in the declaration.
                        The next day, Japanese newspapers reported that the declaration, the text of which was broadcast on the radio and scattered in leaflets from airplanes, was rejected. The Japanese government did not express a desire to accept an ultimatum. On July 28, Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki announced at a press conference that the Potsdam Declaration was nothing more than the old arguments of the Cairo Declaration in a new wrapper, and demanded that the government ignore it.
                      4. Iraclius
                        Iraclius 6 August 2013 15: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: Pimply
                        It was just that they were large industrial cities.

                        Not having military significance, even taking into account the presence of industrial facilities and part of the garrisons.
                        Why didn’t the flyers say that such a powerful weapon was available? Why didn't you send test records to the government? Why, if there was a unique chance to kill several birds with one stone - a test on living people and a demonstration to the world of their military power. What happened.
                        Only, behold, the kurvas did not rejoice for long. The Soviet bomb was on the way.
                      5. Pimply
                        Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 59
                        +1
                        And why did you decide that you had no military significance? Some military camps were located nearby, including the headquarters of the Fifth Division and the headquarters of the Second Main Army Field Marshal Sunroku Hut, who commanded the defense of all of South Japan. Hiroshima was an important supply base for the Japanese army. The city was a communications center and a gathering point for troops.
  • танк
    танк 6 August 2013 12: 39
    0
    Once this nation was mercilessly destroying and forcing old people, children and women of other countries regardless of any talk. Japanese, in my opinion, are the most vile nation, if they are not e ****, normal good people will not grow out of them. Of course, their children sorry, but without this bomb, who knows how their capture of the Far East would end ...
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 6 August 2013 13: 12
      +4
      There are no vile nations. There are pleasures among the people.
      But for this, if I were a Japanese, I would give in the face:
      in my opinion the most vile nation, if they aren’t fucked .. normal good people will not grow out of them
      1. танк
        танк 6 August 2013 14: 59
        -2
        I hear you, crush has not grown yet, that this is the most vile nation, any other country will tell you, during World War II they killed and put on terrible experiments on children (alive, without any painkillers) our grandfathers fought with them, and you tell me tales about a white bull’s
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 August 2013 13: 54
    -1
    Yes, Sasha, if this is an opportunity to break the resistance and save the lives of soldiers. In any case, for that situation and that war.
    1. rolik
      rolik 6 August 2013 13: 58
      +1
      [quote = Pimpled] Yes, Sasha, if this is an opportunity to break the resistance and save the lives of soldiers. In any case, for that situation and that war. [/ Qu
      What situation??? The war has already been won.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 15
        0
        On July 26, the governments of the United States, Britain and China signed the Potsdam Declaration, which set out the demand for unconditional surrender of Japan. The atomic bomb was not mentioned in the declaration.
        The next day, Japanese newspapers reported that the declaration, the text of which was broadcast on the radio and scattered in leaflets from airplanes, was rejected. The Japanese government did not express a desire to accept an ultimatum. On July 28, Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki announced at a press conference that the Potsdam Declaration was nothing more than the old arguments of the Cairo Declaration in a new wrapper, and demanded that the government ignore it.


        Where exactly was she won, tell? In Germany, maybe. In Japan, no. Or do you think Americans should have paid with the lives of their soldiers for the short-sightedness of Japanese politicians?
        1. rolik
          rolik 6 August 2013 18: 13
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          Where exactly was she won, tell?

          I quote your favorite Americans.
          "Victory over Japan can only be guaranteed if the Japanese ground forces are defeated," was the opinion of General MacArthur, commander-in-chief of the American armed forces in the Pacific. Referring to the fact that the United States and its Western allies did not have the capabilities to do this, he demanded on the eve of the Crimean Allied Conference from his government "to make every effort to achieve the entry of the Soviet Union into the war." In a special memorandum of the Joint Chiefs of Staff dated December 23, 1944, it was noted: “Russia's entry into the war as soon as possible ... is necessary to provide maximum support for our operations in the Pacific Ocean.” Former US Secretary of State E. Stetginius who took part in the Yalta Conference wrote: "On the eve of the Crimean Conference, the chiefs of American staff convinced Roosevelt that Japan could capitulate only in 1947 or later, and its defeat could cost America a million soldiers."
          As a result of the discussions, the Three Powers Agreement was signed on February 11, 1945, which stated: "The leaders of the Three Great Powers - the Soviet Union, the United States of America and Great Britain - agreed that two to three months after the surrender of Germany and the end of the war in Europe The Soviet Union will enter the war against Japan on the side of the Allies ... ".
          Since August 19, Japanese forces almost everywhere began to capitulate. 148 Japanese generals, 594 thousand officers and soldiers were captured. By the end of August, the disarmament of the Kwantung Army and other enemy forces located in Manchuria and North Korea was completely completed. Successfully completed operations to liberate South Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands.
          What else do you need ??? By August 19, Japan had virtually no army left. Unless, of course, called the army those thousands of people cohabited in nuclear fire.
          1. S-200
            S-200 6 August 2013 22: 07
            +1
            The Soviet Union declared war on Japan on August 9 ... the largest well-armed group of ground forces - the Kwantung Army:
            By August 9, 1945, the Kwantung Army had in its composition: 1st Front (3rd and 5th Armies), 3rd Front (30th and 44th Armies), 17th Front (34th and the 59th Army), a separate 4th Army, the 2nd and 5th Air Armies, and the Sungarian Flotilla. In addition, the army of Manzhou-go, the army of Menjiang (under the command of Prince Dae Wang), and the Suiyuan Army Group were quickly subordinated to her.
            The Kwantung Army and its subordinate forces included 37 infantry and 7 cavalry divisions, 22 infantry, 2 tank and 2 cavalry brigades (a total of 1 million 320 thousand people), 1155 tanks, 6260 guns, 1900 aircraft and 25 warships. The Kwantung Army also had bacteriological weapons prepared for use against Soviet troops (see Detachment 731).
            At the time of the nuclear bombardment, the Kwantung army was NIKEM not yet defeated ...

            PS The victory over Japan on August 9 was far from obvious ... And at what cost? By the way, America has been waging war on two fronts for a long time ... Chemical weapons were not used, and nuclear weapons were not recognized as a barbaric method of warfare due to its novelty.
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 6 August 2013 23: 18
              0
              The Kwantung Army is a powerful association, no doubt about it. Although there were already some problems with recruiting - there were a lot of young animals. But that's bad luck - it is not in Japan. And how to transfer it there if there is no fleet, and the airspace is completely controlled by the Amrians? The island is practically in a blockade ring. You will read about the forces that were pulled in and prepared for Operation Downfall.
              Further, Prince Konoe directly said that without a nuclear bombardment, Japan would have held out at a maximum until about the end of the fall of 1945. For this, the Kwantung Army would gobble up all the rats in the district and start each other, and the Americans could continue their favorite carpet exercises. bombing from maximum heights. Let me paraphrase a saying - "The bomb of a B-29 bomber is guaranteed to hit the ground" (c) The Empire's economy was dead, and the population wanted to eat. The emperor and goddess Amaterasu is, of course, sacred, but everyone wants to eat.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 40
                +1
                No one talks about a possible victory for Japan. It's just that the Japanese in their strategy were going to make the enemy’s losses strategically unacceptable and bargain for better conditions for surrender. They didn’t give a damn about their own population.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 7 August 2013 00: 12
      0
      Quote: Pimply
      Yes, Sasha, if this is an opportunity to break the resistance and save the lives of soldiers. In any case, for that situation and that war.

      Your arguments are ridiculous, you are trying to justify the murder with a pseudo-humanity, "tyry-pyry lives of soldiers", but the rulers of all countries did not care about the lives of soldiers, it was necessary to test a nuclear bomb - they tested it, it was necessary to intimidate the USSR - they broke off.
      As for the Japanese, I will say this - they killed like mad dogs, I feel sorry for the dog, but it is necessary to protect ourselves and those around us.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 41
        +2
        I am not a humanist. I'm realist. The Americans simultaneously achieved several goals.
  • DEfindER
    DEfindER 6 August 2013 13: 02
    +1
    Quote: tank
    Look how these nice kind creatures (Japanese) experimented on living people, executed hundreds of Chinese and everything that was next to them, including Russians. At that time they captured the whole Far East.

    Of course, there was a genocide of the Chinese, but the Yapis have an eternal conflict with China even to this day, and at the beginning of the 20th century there were such massacres in all military conflicts. At the expense of the executions of the Russians, you exaggerate, if you only executed the military, they treated us with hostility, but with respect. But the most important thing is that all the Russo-Japanese wars were at the direction of the West, as the fulfillment of allied obligations, although we ourselves could have agreed with them without any war and resolved all the contradictions ..
    1. rolik
      rolik 6 August 2013 14: 40
      +4
      Quote: DEfindER
      . At the expense of executions of Russians, you exaggerate,

      just remember the Russo-Japanese War. When our sailors from sunken ships were in Japan. And they were not there as prisoners, but as guests of honor. They were given proper medical care, they were fed better than ordinary Japanese could afford, and they did not sit behind a thorn in the camp. but they could freely move around the city. The Russian sailors who died from the wounds were buried in a specially organized Russian cemetery with a funeral service, as it should be. The Japanese still continue to look after this cemetery.
      The Japanese always respected REAL soldiers, and always paid tribute to them.
      Now the Japanese nation is thoroughly brainwashed, thanks to its own government. And this is on the conscience of the Japanese themselves. apparently forgot the words about the need to remember the story, so as not to make the same mistakes again.
      1. il grand casino
        il grand casino 6 August 2013 14: 45
        0
        Quote: rolik
        Quote: DEfindER
        . At the expense of executions of Russians, you exaggerate,

        just remember the Russo-Japanese War. When our sailors from sunken ships were in Japan. And they were not there as prisoners, but as guests of honor. They were given proper medical care, they were fed better than ordinary Japanese could afford, and they did not sit behind a thorn in the camp. but they could freely move around the city. The Russian sailors who died from the wounds were buried in a specially organized Russian cemetery with a funeral service, as it should be. The Japanese still continue to look after this cemetery.
        The Japanese always respected REAL soldiers, and always paid tribute to them.
        Now the Japanese nation is thoroughly brainwashed, thanks to its own government. And this is on the conscience of the Japanese themselves. apparently forgot the words about the need to remember the story, so as not to make the same mistakes again.


        Well, this only concerned officers ... and even then in the initial periods of the war
        1. rolik
          rolik 6 August 2013 14: 57
          0
          Quote: il grand casino
          Well, this only concerned officers ... and even then in the initial periods of the war

          This applied not only to officers, but to all Russian sailors in general. Officers lived in separate houses if they did not need hospital treatment. But ordinary sailors, those who are not in the hospital, lived in the barracks.
  • Vovka levka
    Vovka levka 6 August 2013 10: 55
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: waisson
    those who threw it away and still continue to sow evil around the world.

    Why don't we raise the issue in the UN on recognizing the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a war crime and an act of genocide, and after that in Vietnam also raise the issue of using chemical weapons prohibited by the UN convention.

    War itself is a crime. A desire for revenge is always a bad adviser. For then all means are good.
    There are no angels in a war; each has his own sin.
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 6 August 2013 10: 57
      +2
      Quote: Vovka Levka
      A desire for revenge is always a bad adviser.

      But how convincing bully
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 6 August 2013 11: 06
        +4
        Very. The male part of Australian field medical facilities had official order kill their nurses in case of threat of captivity by the Japanese.
      2. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 6 August 2013 12: 58
        0
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        A desire for revenge is always a bad adviser.

        But how convincing bully

        And it almost always takes away the mind.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 11: 17
      +2
      Quote: Vovka Levka
      There are no angels in war

      It doesn’t happen, but there are those who commit crimes and kill civilians. Not everyone does this.
      1. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 6 August 2013 13: 06
        -1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        There are no angels in war

        It doesn’t happen, but there are those who commit crimes and kill civilians. Not everyone does this.

        In many ways, it depends on the situation, I’m telling you for sure. In the same Afghanistan, 10 million people died in XNUMX years. Among them there are many Mujahideen, but there were enough civilians. All sides tried here, and often just by chance, unintentionally.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 13: 25
          +3
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          . All sides tried here, and often just by chance, unintentionally.

          Is it Hiroshima and Nagasaki inadvertently? Is it Dresden and Stalingrad unintentionally? Is spraying chemistry in Vietnam unintentional? Is Basra white phosphorus unintentionally?
          1. Vovka levka
            Vovka levka 6 August 2013 13: 46
            +2
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Quote: Vovka Levka
            . All sides tried here, and often just by chance, unintentionally.

            Is it Hiroshima and Nagasaki inadvertently? Is it Dresden and Stalingrad unintentionally? Is spraying chemistry in Vietnam unintentional? Is Basra white phosphorus unintentionally?

            The explosion and almost complete destruction of the center of Kiev with the local population in 1941.
            The explosion of the Dnieper, and the death of tens of thousands of military and civilians from water. But the Germans captured the Dnieper only a month later.
            Covert mining of Moscow, the last bookmark was accidentally found in the building of the State Planning Commission in the late 80s.
            Dear, if you think that the war is being waged by some rules, then I am sorry for you. There are no rules in the war, there is only the desire to win and at the same time survive if possible.
            1. rolik
              rolik 6 August 2013 14: 07
              +5
              Quote: Vovka Levka
              Dear, if you think that the war is being waged by some rules, then I am sorry for you. There are no rules in the war, there is only the desire to win and at the same time survive if possible.

              Once again, the war at that time was ALREADY won. And do not repeat the excuses of mattresses. They killed two inhabited cities, ONLY BECAUSE THEY NEED TO SHOW THE USSR A NEW WEAPON. And you begin to look for excuses, at the turn of the war. What nafig fracture? It was just a cynical murder. And if we did not have the best army, these bombs would be tested against us. Do not flatter yourself with hopes for the humanism of mattress-beds.
              Remember how they mastered their country. When all the bison were knocked out to deal with the Indians, they were given blankets infected with smallpox to them. Mattresses have a whole story, this is a story of continuous genocide.
              1. Vovka levka
                Vovka levka 6 August 2013 15: 09
                +1
                Quote: rolik
                Quote: Vovka Levka
                Dear, if you think that the war is being waged by some rules, then I am sorry for you. There are no rules in the war, there is only the desire to win and at the same time survive if possible.

                Once again, the war at that time was ALREADY won. And do not repeat the excuses of mattresses. They killed two inhabited cities, ONLY BECAUSE THEY NEED TO SHOW THE USSR A NEW WEAPON. And you begin to look for excuses, at the turn of the war. What nafig fracture? It was just a cynical murder. And if we did not have the best army, these bombs would be tested against us. Do not flatter yourself with hopes for the humanism of mattress-beds.
                Remember how they mastered their country. When all the bison were knocked out to deal with the Indians, they were given blankets infected with smallpox to them. Mattresses have a whole story, this is a story of continuous genocide.

                Nobody justifies anyone.
                And if your hatred of mattresses clouds your mind, then I would not want to have such a commander.
              2. Pimply
                Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 17
                +1
                Explain exactly where she was won?
                "On July 26, the governments of the United States, Great Britain and China signed the Potsdam Declaration, which set out the demand for Japan's unconditional surrender. The atomic bomb was not mentioned in the declaration.
                The next day, Japanese newspapers reported that the declaration, the text of which was broadcast on the radio and scattered in leaflets from airplanes, had been rejected. The Japanese government has expressed no desire to accept the ultimatum. On July 28, Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki said at a press conference that the Potsdam Declaration is nothing more than the old arguments of the Cairo Declaration in a new wrapper, and demanded that the government ignore it. "
  • Very old
    Very old 6 August 2013 11: 20
    0
    Unckel Sam: The UN is in my pocket. II - II instill democracy around the world. I spread universal values ​​around the world
  • Tersky
    Tersky 6 August 2013 11: 22
    +2
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Why don't we raise the issue at the UN on recognizing the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a war crime and an act of genocide,

    Sasha, this is primarily due to the injured party, the Japanese, and not only are they silent, they also pay for the presence of Americans on their islands and drive the population into the skull boxes about their involvement in the atomic bombing of the USSR. This is how much you need not to love your country, the wildness is complete.
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 6 August 2013 11: 25
      +4
      Quote: Tersky
      and not only are they silent, they also pay for the presence of Americans on their islands.

      It just doesn’t work looking at present Japan to sympathize with them request One gets the impression that they shied a little am
  • 12345
    12345 6 August 2013 13: 03
    0
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Why don't we raise the issue at the UN ...


    It is, of course - the new Nuremberg "cries" for IT. But remember the fate of the UN resolution condemning Zionism.

    As long as the dollar rules the world, those who print it can sleep peacefully.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 August 2013 17: 34
    0
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Why don't we raise the issue in the UN on recognizing the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a war crime and an act of genocide, and after that in Vietnam also raise the issue of using chemical weapons prohibited by the UN convention.

    In this case, the UN is deported from the United States.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 6 August 2013 19: 30
    +1
    Hello Sash, the United Nations structure controlled by the United States, this will remind a non-commissioned officer widow who has flogged herself.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 53
      +1
      The UN is the bazaar, Sash. It is difficult to talk about any control over the market.
  • strannik595
    strannik595 6 August 2013 09: 21
    11
    peace and repose to the souls of fallen civilians ........ and yet
    “How long will you be held captive by mistrust and enmity? Do you really believe that you can maintain national security by rattling weapons? ”
    including because of the actions of your ancestors in neighboring territories and on our Sakhalin, you still have to rattle to sleep peacefully ........ all questions to those who originally invented and used these weapons
  • 3030
    3030 6 August 2013 09: 21
    20
    Japanese!!! Have you really forgiven these amer bombings ???
    1. Russ69
      Russ69 6 August 2013 10: 07
      11
      Quote: 3030
      Japanese!!! Have you really forgiven these amer bombings ???

      Alas, they not only forgave, but some believe that the USSR did it.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 10: 11
        +7
        Quote: Russ69
        Alas, they not only forgave, but some believe that the USSR did it.

        Yes, quite a few Japanese people do not just think so, but will argue with you to shit that the Russians dropped bombs.
        And if you recall the fact that Japan still pays for the presence of the American military, then ...... request
  • Denis
    Denis 6 August 2013 09: 22
    +9
    Mayor Kazumi Matsui calls the atomic bomb the most inhuman weapon on the planet and absolute evil
    And now their best friends
    a kind of unsinkable aircraft carrier
    for those:
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 10: 12
      +8
      Quote: Denis
      And now their best friends
      a kind of unsinkable aircraft carrier

      And what is it you have so lost lol
      1. strannik595
        strannik595 6 August 2013 10: 48
        +4
        footprints from a vietnam company
      2. Denis
        Denis 6 August 2013 18: 13
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And what is it you have so lost
        Because of fear
        Nearby, Koreans with a nuclear bomb, far from the owners, but through the strait can get
    2. Hort
      Hort 6 August 2013 11: 16
      0
      well, how unsinkable ... conditionally)) We had a project for the sinking of this "aircraft carrier". There is just a depression on one edge, where Japan is sliding by mm per year (sort of like). If desired, you can speed up
  • Constantine
    Constantine 6 August 2013 09: 22
    17
    Sorry for the people. Where is the pride of the samurai that after such a fake before the Americans, like faithful dogs, without even trying to change anything. Not those Japanese already. Not those. sad
    1. Denis
      Denis 6 August 2013 09: 25
      +3
      Quote: Constantine
      . Not those Japanese already. Not those.

      It has long been sold ..
      1. sergey72
        sergey72 6 August 2013 09: 33
        14
        And some young Japanese people seriously believe that the Soviet Union dropped atomic bombs on Japan ....
        1. Constantine
          Constantine 6 August 2013 09: 52
          +2
          Quote: sergey72
          And some young Japanese people seriously believe that the Soviet Union dropped atomic bombs on Japan ....


          Still would. They are brainwashed an order of magnitude longer)
        2. kmike
          kmike 6 August 2013 10: 07
          +2
          And not only the Japanese, but also many Europeans believe that the Soviet Union did this evil.
      2. a52333
        a52333 6 August 2013 10: 31
        +4
        Nobody was on sale there! This is "politics in the occupied territories". The government is brought to power, which takes the oath of the United States, (and only then to its people).
        Total control over the media, a subordinate state of the Central Bank. US "owes" Japan $ 769 billion.
        We have the same picture. Grant eaters write laws that are convenient to the United States. The press is supporting public opinion in the right direction. Therefore, they are unsure who bombed them. look at the speeches of Evgeny Fedorov, everything is more detailed there (on our example)
    2. eplewke
      eplewke 6 August 2013 10: 04
      +2
      those Japanese still died at the beginning of the 19th century, when all the Samurai Old Believers were cut out and hanged in the country ...
    3. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 10: 15
      +6
      Quote: Constantine
      . Where is the pride of the samurai

      Do you think these people have pride?
      1. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 6 August 2013 10: 17
        +2
        Did you shoot it yourself? laughing
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 11: 19
          +3
          Quote: Ruslan67
          Did you shoot it yourself?

          No, I try to avoid such people, I'm afraid to pick up an infection laughing
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 6 August 2013 11: 26
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            I'm afraid to pick up an infection

            You think is spreading airborne what laughing
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 11: 29
              +3
              Quote: Ruslan67
              You think is spreading airborne

              When they come to us, some of them go in medical masks, I think for a reason laughing
              1. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 6 August 2013 11: 31
                +2
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                When they come to us,

                Where is Onishchenko looking !? belay negative wassat
      2. fzr1000
        fzr1000 6 August 2013 11: 25
        +1
        This is a gang or bikers. They have pride. Own.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 11: 30
          +1
          Quote: fzr1000
          Is it a gang or bikers

          Judging by the hairstyle of one of them, this is a gang of roosters, but not Baikers.
          1. fzr1000
            fzr1000 6 August 2013 13: 11
            0
            Bikers .. they are also different, in general .... smile
        2. Iraclius
          Iraclius 6 August 2013 11: 34
          +3
          Guys! I have some Japanese friends. In addition, I talked with tourists in Kamchatka and I will say this - they all remember and will never forgive. This is a very vindictive people. In the novel "The Seventh Aircraft Carrier" there is a wonderful episode when today a quiet, peaceful old man was brought to the island of Kiska to identify the remnants of the crashed A6M. The old man flew in the plane and chatted calmly with the Yankees. When he was brought to Zero, the old man walked up to the cabin, respectfully knelt down and cried for a long time. And then he grabbed a sword from the cockpit and rushed at the Americans ... Such things. Ah ... everywhere. It's like mutation, an inevitable process.
    4. Vadivak
      Vadivak 6 August 2013 10: 20
      +6
      Quote: Constantine
      Where is the pride of the samurai


      Samurai burned in their aircraft attacking aircraft carriers, the weakest survived ...
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 6 August 2013 09: 23
    +6
    A monstrous bombing and, most importantly, senseless (sooner or later the Japanese would have surrendered) .. For all this time, the tactics of warfare among the Anglo-Saxons have not changed at all. If it were not for the USSR, they would have used it without hesitation ..
    1. crazy_fencer
      crazy_fencer 6 August 2013 09: 32
      11
      No, not meaningless. This is precisely the essence of US policy. Kill hundreds of thousands of people to demonstrate the existence of a nuclear bomb of the USSR.
  • omsbon
    omsbon 6 August 2013 09: 24
    +5
    The senseless killing of thousands of peaceful people, this is a portrait of America!
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 6 August 2013 10: 18
      14
      Hiroshima and Nagasaki, of course, a human tragedy, instantly destroyed one hundred thousand souls, and therefore a crime against humanity.

      However:

      1. The Japanese themselves did such cruelties that it would be strange if they were treated differently (for example, Nanjing with almost 100 thousand raped by tortured women). The whole world knew about it, there were no illusions

      2. Not meaningless - the bombing and the threat of their continuation forced the imperial government to cease fire and begin negotiations on surrender. So the bombing reached its goals. Well ... a few months before that, in Tokyo over the night in a fiery tornado killed 100 thousand inhabitants of the city - the usual bombardment. And it was well understood that if the Japanese did not capitulate, the United States would not stop at the destruction of all the cities of Japan. Hiroshima confirmed this view.

      3. In Japan, propaganda was stronger than the USSR and Germany.
      You can recall Saipan in my opinion, where thousands of civilians threw themselves into the sea, because propaganda convinced that they were all tortured.
      The official slogan of the Japanese authorities is that all Japanese will die as one, but will not tolerate defeat.
      It is useless to agree with such ones - to kill everyone until the will breaks.
      Which was done by the Americans.


      No wonder the Japanese are now close allies of the United States.
      There is such an exercise when training large dogs - a dog is broken.
      The instructor (ideally the owner) in boots stupidly kicks the dog until it breaks.
      After that, he will die for the owner, but he will never bite him.
      Watch - no strength, but valid.
      1. alone
        alone 6 August 2013 10: 42
        -1
        you can also recall Okinawa, where local residents also killed themselves in droves in order not to fall into American hands
      2. Batkamahno
        Batkamahno 6 August 2013 10: 56
        +2
        This, of course, is true. But if not for the defeat of the Japanese in Manchuria, then the bombing would not help. And about the Japanese loyalty to the Americans, then you just need to understand their psychology. They will smile at you even sticking a knife in your back. While America was needed by Japan - they are friends. Actually, Japan has a fairly free policy. and many full-fledged armies will envy their self-defense forces
      3. Vadivak
        Vadivak 6 August 2013 11: 35
        +2
        Quote: cdrt
        The instructor (ideally the owner) in boots stupidly kicks the dog until it breaks.


        Foolishness certainly does not work, applies to dogs of large breeds, Caucasian, Asian Shepherd Dogs, and pita if you can beat you can get the opposite effect, it will calm down but be sure to recoup and maybe on family members
      4. sub307
        sub307 6 August 2013 12: 08
        0
        "No wonder the Japanese are now close US allies."
        Moreover, there is an opinion among Japanese youth that the Soviet Union is the "author" of the atomic bombing.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • nokki
    nokki 6 August 2013 09: 28
    +1
    Quote: Denis
    It has long been sold ..


    Just like the Germans ...
    1. crazy_fencer
      crazy_fencer 6 August 2013 09: 30
      +1
      Marshall’s plan, you see ... He did a good job on the Japanese as well.
      1. Pamir210
        Pamir210 6 August 2013 10: 23
        +3
        Marshall's plan has nothing to do with this.
  • Predator-74
    Predator-74 6 August 2013 09: 30
    +2
    Only a bipolar (or more) world can prevent such a terrible catastrophe in the future. A statement on complete nuclear disarmament Kazumi Matsui to put it mildly not competencies.
  • Anti
    Anti 6 August 2013 09: 31
    +7
    This is not a complete picture of the tragedy of Japan.
    By the summer of 1945, the Americans could demolish any Japanese city with guaranteed and practically impunity. Everything. that the Japanese flew, with minor exceptions, was destroyed. Anything else that could take to the air would be guaranteed to be destroyed if discovered. B-29s bombed Japanese cities with absolutely impunity, since anti-aircraft artillery did not reach them stupidly. This was vividly demonstrated by the Americans on May 10, 1945, when 325 Super Fortresses demolished Tokyo and killed at least 100 people, more than in Horoshima and Nagasaki separately.
    So the Japanese didn’t care, in general - one plane flew in and threw a bomb, or 300 planes were bombed for several hours. The result was one and it is not clear what is worse.
    1. sergey72
      sergey72 6 August 2013 09: 51
      +4
      I remember when I was in school we were taken to the full-length Japanese cartoon "Barefoot Gen" ...
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 6 August 2013 10: 27
        0
        I remember when I was in school we were taken to the full-length Japanese cartoon "Barefoot Gen" ...

        There is also a creepy cartoon Miyazatsi - "Firefly Cemetery"
        1. alone
          alone 6 August 2013 10: 43
          0
          but they still have a cartoon "puss in boots")))
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 6 August 2013 09: 42
    +8
    Near the epicenter of the explosion, the temperature was so high that most of the living creatures were instantly turned into steam. Shadows on parapets from people were imprinted even half a mile southeast of the epicenter on the Yorozuyo Bridge. All that remains of the people in Hiroshima sitting on stones that have not melted are handfuls of black shadows. Some say it's their souls.
    Just show the photos.
    1. igordok
      igordok 6 August 2013 10: 33
      0
      As a child I read V. Ovchinikov's book "Shadows on the Aioi Bridge", still in my memory.
      Impressive.
      But many came to the conclusion that the Japanese simply removed the corpses immediately, and then the journalists came and invented passions.
    2. ATATA
      ATATA 6 August 2013 10: 33
      -1
      Quote: Iraclius
      Just show the photos.

      Those. a person consisting of 90% of the water has evaporated, and the wooden wall is not even charred?
      This is a halyan button accordion.
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 10: 41
        +4
        Shadows arose far enough from the epicenter. But people still died from radiation sickness.
        There are photographs of shadows left on the stone buildings in the epicenter of the explosion and stone bridges. The sight is terrible. In vain you are so ...







        Galimian button accordions too?
        1. DmitriRazumov
          DmitriRazumov 6 August 2013 11: 11
          +3
          In the morning, 8.15 from a height of 9,4 km bomber dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima. All living things — people, birds, animals — close to the epicenter, burned down instantly. Almost all people within a radius of eight hundred meters from the explosion died in the next few minutes. Of these, no more than 1 / 10 survived after the explosion. For those who were not killed by the explosion, who was bypassed by the blast wave and spared the tornado that had begun, a deadly irradiation began ...

          It would be nice to remind our Western and American partners of these examples of democratization of the rest of the world by the method of atomic bombings when their pathos in criticism of Russia and its foreign and domestic policies goes off scale. Sometimes it already seems, according to their propaganda, that these are not Americans, but the USSR bombed peaceful cities with atomic bombs and destroyed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians during WW2. If we add to this their habit of completely senseless carpet bombing of Dresden, Cologne and other cities in Germany, then the picture is very "blissful" ...
          1. rolik
            rolik 6 August 2013 14: 14
            +1
            Quote: DmitriRazumov
            . Sometimes it seems, according to their propaganda, that it’s not the Americans, but the USSR that bombed peaceful cities with atomic bombs and destroyed hundreds of innocent civilians during 2 MB

            By the way, this is exactly what is being suggested to the Japanese population. Young people just have such a judgment, they were bombed by the USSR.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 6 August 2013 15: 17
              +1
              Please, specific example, link.
        2. ATATA
          ATATA 6 August 2013 17: 59
          0
          So you compare the shadows on the pavement with the shadows on the wall.
          On the pavement they are lighter, and on WOODEN the wall DARKER background.
          Mosk turn on.
          I am not ironic over the victims, I say that the photo of the shadows on the wooden wall is fake.
          Read the hoax.
          Do you understand what I am writing to you?
  • pensioner
    pensioner 6 August 2013 09: 42
    +5
    Thank you Oleg! In the 20th century, many things people have done. But the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is the worst crime against humanity. As the youth says - IMHO.
  • Day 11
    Day 11 6 August 2013 09: 44
    10
    And who remembers March 10, 1945 (Tokyo)? Only Japs! But it was no weaker than Hiroshima! If anyone is interested --- it's napalm!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 6 August 2013 10: 17
      +4
      Quote: Den 11
      And who remembers March 10, 1945 (Tokyo)? Only Japs! But it was no weaker than Hiroshima!

      Then at least 100 thousand people died.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 6 August 2013 10: 20
        0
        Respect to you! This must be known! To compose the whole picture as a whole (at that time)
    3. pensioner
      pensioner 6 August 2013 10: 23
      +7
      Quote: Den 11
      who remembers March 10, 1945 (Tokyo)? Only Japs!

      Good afternoon, Den! We, too, few remember on August 23. On this day, at 42 Germans, Stalingrad was actually destroyed and a huge fire was made in its place.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 6 August 2013 10: 58
        +4
        I’m talking about Jura, I need to know the story. Maybe the story of the cross-eyed one is a little light for us, but to understand the situation as a whole, this is necessary! (Knowledge)
  • polly
    polly 6 August 2013 09: 44
    -1
    Long live the hypocritical country that supplies the world with absolute evil !!! negative
    1. psv910
      psv910 6 August 2013 10: 11
      +4
      Quote: polly
      Long live the hypocritical country that supplies the world with absolute evil !!! negative


      It does not live, but dies, eats itself.
      1. polly
        polly 6 August 2013 14: 07
        +3
        If my sarcasm is incomprehensible, I explain about "long live", for those who ... did not understand: the United States, considering itself the beacon of democracy and freedom throughout the world, in fact is not such a state, because no one has ever committed such a crime before them! Someday God will not stand ...
  • tilovaykrisa
    tilovaykrisa 6 August 2013 09: 45
    +7
    If the Yapi bomb were dropped, they would not even blink an eye on Amerakesh, but this does not cancel all the inhumanity of this act of the United States, just as Dresden was destroyed to intimidate sausages.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 6 August 2013 10: 05
      +8
      The Japanese used chemical warfare agents in China.
      This does not negate the fact that the bomb was blown up by the Americans.
      The reason was simple - after the monstrous losses for the Americans during the storming of Okinawa, it was estimated that during the capture of the main Japanese islands during Operation Downfall, the number of killed from the American side could reach a million or even more. That did not suit the political leadership in any way. So there was a justification for the bombing.
      1. Gato
        Gato 6 August 2013 10: 25
        +2
        Quote: Iraclius
        So there was an excuse for the bombing.

        Yes, actually, the Americans did not particularly need excuses. In addition, at that time, the atomic bomb was considered just a bomb, but VERY powerful.
        The understanding of what global consequences the massive nuclear bombardment may have came much later, after many tests and modeling of the effects on the Earth’s climate.
        As far as I know, Soviet scientists played a key role in this.

        In general, for the adherents of the strategy "and let's proactively star on them with a vigorous loaf" I recommend watching the English film "Threads": http://www.ex.ua/70863882
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius 6 August 2013 10: 31
          +1
          Several people died from radiation sickness during experiments with the "Dvol sphere". They all knew perfectly well and were even somewhat disappointed with the results in Nagasaki.
    2. Gato
      Gato 6 August 2013 10: 28
      +1
      Quote: tilovaykrisa
      If the yapi bomb were dropped, they would not blink on the amerakesh

      For some reason, it seems to me that the Germans, the Japanese, and the British would have done exactly the same, and ours would not have been shy about revealing Berlin revealingly.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 6 August 2013 12: 44
        +5
        Quote: Gato
        Yes, and ours would not be ashamed to significantly trick Berlin

        And here you, dear, are deeply mistaken. It is a well-known fact: during the storming of Vienna I.V. Stalin banned the use of heavy weapons and aircraft to preserve the city's architecture and cultural values. So there is no point in replicating Goebel's propaganda about the barbarity of the Russians. From memory: for Vienna our country paid 38 thousand lives of Soviet soldiers. So much for the "bloody Stalinist regime".
        1. Gato
          Gato 6 August 2013 13: 11
          0
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          during the storming of Vienna

          Vienna is not Germany.
          But didn’t they use it during the storming of Berlin? At least I saw footage of the chronicle with an 203-mm howitzer, direct-fire.

          So you should not duplicate Goebbels propaganda about Russian barbarism

          This is where you saw this?

          So much for the "bloody Stalinist regime".

          I do not understand your sarcasm. I consider myself a moderate Stalinist and do not consider the "Stalinist regime" either bloody or suffering from snotty humanism. In the end, our army rushed to Berlin, not drinking schnapps, not saving its "architecture ... and cultural values"
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 6 August 2013 20: 13
            +2
            Quote: Gato
            Vienna is not Germany.
            But didn’t they use it during the storming of Berlin? At least I saw footage of the chronicle with an 203-mm howitzer, direct-fire.

            Sergei! I didn’t mean to offend you. But, if you want to be correctly understood, more precisely formulate thoughts.
            Quote: Gato
            the Germans, the Japanese, and the British would have done exactly the same, and ours were not shy

            It is at least not correct to put the spacecraft on a par with the Germans, Japanese, staffers and Britons: we did not fight with the civilian population, we did not burn down Coventry, Hamburg, Dresden, Stalingrad, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They did not conduct experiments on living people, did not stain them in gas chambers. This is not in the traditions of the Russian army.
            About 203 mm howitzers. Only they could "knock off" the "King Tiger" buried in the ground on the tower, standing at the crossroads of streets. The front-line soldiers wrote about this quite a lot in their memoirs. Our artillerymen didn’t shoot at home, because they had nothing to do. Exclusively suppress the enemy's firing point.
            Goebbels propaganda and the Stalinist regime have nothing to do with you. Rather, to a colleague Pupyrchaty.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 7 August 2013 00: 54
              0
              Koenigsberg was burned to the ground, for example 8)
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 7 August 2013 00: 57
                0
                Zhenik worked on Kenik with artillery and sappers. In the early days of the assault there was heavy fog, the aircraft did not work.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 44
                  0
                  I do not argue. Nevertheless, aviation tried there more than once. In particular, in 1943, the Pe-8 dropped a 5-ton bomb.
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 7 August 2013 01: 46
                    0
                    Zhen did not know.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 7 August 2013 02: 00
                      0
                      April 29, 1943.

                      Good katinka - Berlin is bombed by Soviet aircraft.
              2. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 7 August 2013 01: 37
                +2
                Quote: Pimply
                Koenigsberg was burnt to the ground, for example 8

                Peace-loving Britons dropped 480 tons of bombs in one of the raids, mainly in the center of the city, which had no military significance. First used napalm. Their example, after the war, was followed by other "peacekeepers" who burned Songmi with napalm.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 7 August 2013 01: 58
                  -1
                  I never called the Britons peaceable - that would be stupid. A warlike nation, in the past - a great Empire. Empires are not peaceful. They had the opportunity to effectively use strategic aviation - they used it. And they were right.
                  1. Boa kaa
                    Boa kaa 7 August 2013 14: 35
                    +2
                    Quote: Pimply
                    A warlike nation, in the past - a great Empire. Empires are not peaceful. They had the opportunity to effectively use strategic aviation - they used it. And they were right.

                    Respected! Following your logic, Persia (between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers), now Iran, was also once a great empire. Israel attacked their territory without provocation. Having received the bomb and having the means of delivery, the Iranians will be able to "effectively use" their historical chance of rewarding the Jews and, in your opinion, they will be right. Note: no one calls them "peaceful" either! And what about peaceful people?
                    1. Iraclius
                      Iraclius 7 August 2013 14: 42
                      -1
                      Pupyrchaty and Lopatov argue and try to convince others of this that the crimes of the Japanese military in the south-east Asia, China and Dutch India give rise to the legitimization of the Japanese genocide by Americans.
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 58
                        +1
                        First give a definition of the word genocide. Do you even know what it means?
                    2. Pimply
                      Pimply 7 August 2013 14: 55
                      0
                      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                      And here are peaceful people?

                      Despite the fact that they always die in wars.

                      Iran, if you do not know, has long begun a war against Israel. The fact that it is being conducted by non-traditional methods does not make it a war to a lesser extent.
                      1. Boa kaa
                        Boa kaa 8 August 2013 02: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Iran, if you do not know, has long begun a war against Israel.

                        "War - a conflict between political entities ... taking place in the form of an armed confrontation, military (combat) actions between their armed forces. "- this is the definition given by Wiki.
                        And now please tell me the areas and extent of use of the Iranian armed forces against Israel
                        Quote: Pimply
                        The fact that it is conducted by non-traditional methods does not make it a war to a lesser extent.

                        You, dear, either formulate your thoughts more precisely, or call things by their proper names: "terror" for example, information war, the use of illegal military formations, and so on. Just do not confuse the definitions, it does not work out academically.
                      2. Pimply
                        Pimply 8 August 2013 14: 18
                        -2
                        Oh how! We give a definition of war on Wikipedia! BRAVO! BIS!

                        War is an organized armed struggle between independent sovereign states. The definition of aggression is contained in the UN General Assembly Resolution 3314 of December 14, 1974, according to which aggression is understood as "the use of armed force by a state against the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of another state, or in any other way incompatible with the UN Charter" ( Art. 1). Acts of armed aggression include: a) the invasion of the armed forces of one state into the territory of another state; any military occupation, no matter how temporary it may be; any annexation of the territory of another state or part of it with the use of force; b) the use of any weapon by one state against the territory of another state; c) blockade of ports or coasts of one state by the armed forces of another state; d) an attack by the armed forces of one state on the armed forces of another state; e) the use of the armed forces of one state, located by agreement on the territory of another state, in violation of the conditions contained in the agreement; f) granting its territory to another state in order to use it for committing acts of aggression against third states; g) sending by one state of armed bands, groups, mercenaries who carry out acts of the use of armed forces against another state (Art. 3). No considerations of any nature, be it political, economic or military, can serve as a justification for an act of aggression (paragraph 1 of Art. 5). Aggressive war is a crime against international peace and entails international responsibility (paragraph 2 of article 5). No territorial gain or special benefit obtained as a result of aggression is not and cannot be recognized as legal (clause 3, article 5).
                        Thanks to the political initiative of the USSR, at the 29th session of the UN General Assembly in 1974, the following definition of aggression was adopted: “Aggression is the use of armed force by a state against the sovereignty, territorial inviolability or political independence of another state or in any other way incompatible with the Charter of the Organization United Nations, as set out in this definition. "

                        The training of Hezbollah and Hamas units, as well as the financing of these organizations, falls under Article 3.


                        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                        You, dear, either formulate your thoughts more precisely, or call things by their proper names: "terror" for example, information war, the use of illegal military formations, and so on. Just do not confuse the definitions, it does not work out academically.

                        Is there enough of the arguments that I cited above?
                      3. Boa kaa
                        Boa kaa 11 August 2013 22: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: Pimply
                        UN General Assembly Resolution 3314 of 14 December 1974

                        That's right, gives a definition of AGGRESSION, but not war. In essence: aggression is an act, War is a special state of society ...
                        Here are other definitions of WAR:
                        The meaning of the word War according to Ephraim:
                        War - Armed struggle, hostilities between tribes, peoples, states, etc.

                        Meaning of the word Ozhegov’s War:
                        War - Fighting, hostile relations with anyone.
                        War An armed struggle between states or peoples, between classes within a state

                        War in the Encyclopedic Dictionary:
                        War is an organized armed struggle between states, nations (peoples), social groups. In war, the armed forces are used as the main and decisive means, as well as economic, political, ideological and other means of struggle. The war between social groups within the country for state power is called a civil war. The last 5,5 thousand years were approx. 14,5 thousand large and small wars (including two world wars), during which died, died from epidemics and famine St. 3,6 billion people. In modern conditions, in connection with the end of the "cold war", the danger of a world nuclear war has diminished. However, the so-called. local wars - military conflicts associated with religious, territorial and national disputes, tribal strife, etc. The international community, the UN strive to create a system of relations between states that excludes the threat of force and its use.

                        Meaning of the word War in the Dictionary of Symbolism:
                        War - A symbol of separation and reunification, eliminating disorder and establishing order from chaos, the conflict between good and evil, the spiritual battle between good and evil in human nature, achieving unity. In Hinduism this is the battle of Krishna and Arjuna, in Islam - the Holy War.
                        This is for WAR. About aggression, apparently, in a different definition. Yes, war includes acts of aggression. But aggression may not always turn into a war. I think you will find examples yourself.
  • W-pott
    W-pott 6 August 2013 11: 15
    0
    Not many pilot pilots (and even staff officers who planned the operation) could live on quietly.
    But if we had a bomb, they would also be dropped. Mandatory. Because nuclear weapons are a powerful argument in the post-war arrangement of the world.
    In addition, the Americans loomed the need for invasion of the islands and fanatical confrontation. They chose victory with little blood (as always).
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 6 August 2013 09: 50
    +1
    Someone says that Americans are ordinary people, just like us. May be so.
    Here is the crew of the Enola Gay bomber.

    The crew of the aircraft 6 August 1945 year consisted of twelve people:

    Colonel Paul W. Tibbets, Crew Commander;
    Captain Robert Lewis - co-pilot;
    Major Thomas Fereby - scorer;
    Captain Theodore Van Kirk - navigator;
    Lieutenant Jacob Bezer - anti-radar specialist, (the only crew member who also participated in the atomic bombing of Nagasaki);
    US Navy Captain William Sterling Parsons - Atomic Bomb Specialist;
    Junior Lieutenant Morris R. Jeppson - Assistant Atomic Bomb Specialist;
    Sergeant Joe Stiborick - Radar;
    Sergeant Robert Karon - tail gunner;
    Sergeant Robert Schumard - Flight Engineer;
    First-class cryptographer Richard Nelson is a radio operator;
    Sergeant Wayne Dazenberray - Flight Engineer Assistant.

    At the time of the bombing of Enola Gay, pilot Thomas Fereby was at the helm, and he personally pressed the bomb reset button.
    According to Fereby, he never felt guilty, although he expressed regret over such a huge - more than 100 thousand - number of human victims. "I am sorry that so many people died from this bomb, and I hate to think that this was necessary in order to end the war as soon as possible," said Thomas Firby in an interview in 1995 on the occasion of the fiftieth anniversary of the American nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. we should look back and remember what just one or two bombs can do. And then I think we should accept the idea that this should never happen again. "

    It seems to me that when you kill the enemy in honest and battle and you know that he can also kill you - this is one thing. But when you execute 100000 people - old people, women, children - this is completely different.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 6 August 2013 10: 39
      0
      In principle, the DBA from the moment of creation, from the ideas of Douai, is a means of terror. The threat to kill tens and hundreds of thousands of peaceful people (knowingly - not military), in order to achieve military goals - to force the enemy to surrender.

      This applies to DBA of all time. The Americans and the British were simply the first to have the funds to create and use such weapons.

      Strategic Missile Forces, by the way, are glorious successors to the threat of terror of civilians.
      And, as practice shows, this threat broke the backbone of that part of the military establishment that has always longed for war - there will be no big war for 70 years already.
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 10: 48
        +3
        War does not start war, and traders. And wars will still be - a matter of time. Humanity has passed the peak of oil consumption, so it will begin soon ...
        The doctrine of the Douai did not show its effectiveness, but its inhumanity.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 6 August 2013 13: 00
        +2
        Quote: cdrt
        Strategic Missile Forces, by the way, are glorious successors to the threat of terror of civilians.

        Eco, however, carried you away! The Strategic Missile Forces is "ammonia" for sobering up crazy adventure lovers!
        Terror is when covertly and unrequitedly, with political or other demands, force is used or threatened with its use. Did the Strategic Missile Forces put forward such demands to anyone? No? - Then what is the ODA about? ("song of the goats" - translated from Greek). But the aggressor must think 100 times about the possible consequences for himself, unleashing a war against a country that possesses nuclear weapons and the means of guaranteed delivery to the target. So the Strategic Missile Forces is the guarantor of peace and a condition for our peaceful development, and not "glorious successors of the cause of the threat of terror to the civilian population," as you will express it. Accents, even in comments, must be placed correctly, otherwise you can slide into the opposite camp.
  • Bort radist
    Bort radist 6 August 2013 09: 51
    +2
    I am amazed at the stamina of this nation, but how could they forgive? And on the other hand, Pearl Harbor.
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 6 August 2013 09: 57
      +3
      Pearl Harbor has nothing to do with it. This is just an excuse. We can raise this topic, but you are not a stupid person and you understand everything yourself!
      1. Manager
        Manager 6 August 2013 10: 15
        +1
        Quote: Den 11
        Pearl Harbor has nothing to do with it. This is just an excuse. We can raise this topic, but you are not a stupid person and you understand everything yourself!

        The maintenance of old ships was expensive. The entire fleet was insured. And there was a desire to test nuclear weapons. It all fits together.
      2. Bort radist
        Bort radist 6 August 2013 10: 59
        +1
        Quote: Den 11
        you understand everything yourself!

        Wrote, and then something scratched. In principle, not comparable, - politics.
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 6 August 2013 11: 18
          +2
          This is not politics (in its purest form) --- this is a show of strength! This is an application for HEGEMONY in the world!
    2. kmike
      kmike 6 August 2013 10: 18
      +1
      Hiroshima and Nagasaki have an absolutely inadequate response to Pearl Harbor.
      1. Manager
        Manager 6 August 2013 10: 30
        +1
        God forbid, but imagine if the Amer hrenched our Pacific fleet. Was it adequate to bomb the USA?
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 6 August 2013 10: 31
        +1
        What about the atrocities in China?
        1. alone
          alone 6 August 2013 10: 48
          +2
          but nobody remembers this. reading the comments, the silhouette of a Japanese man is sitting before his eyes, who was quietly sitting and suddenly .. bang on his head an atomic bomb)))
          1. Anti
            Anti 6 August 2013 10: 54
            0
            Quote: lonely
            the silhouette of a Japanese is polished before his eyes, who was sitting quietly and suddenly .. a bang on his head an atomic bomb)))


            meaning? they were already defeated. Yes, there were no lambs. meaning? Just stupidly test. What will happen? Tell the world what they have? At that price?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 August 2013 11: 25
              -1
              Quote: Anti
              they were already defeated.

              Yes, that's just they did not know about it.
      3. ATATA
        ATATA 6 August 2013 10: 39
        +3
        Quote: kmike
        Hiroshima and Nagasaki have an absolutely inadequate response to Pearl Harbor.

        War is not a duel of gentlemen.
        What does the adequacy?
    3. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 6 August 2013 21: 26
      +1
      What about Pearl Harbor?
      After all, hundreds of thousands of Japanese Americans from the west coast were moved to concentration camps ...
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 6 August 2013 21: 36
        +1
        Emergency Decree No. 9066, issued and signed by US President Franklin Roosevelt on February 19, 1942, during World War II, authorized the Secretary of War to designate certain territories as war zones. Thus, Emergency Decree # 9066 paved the way for the relocation of Japanese-Americans to internment camps. The decree authorized the US Secretary of War and commanders of the US military to designate certain areas of the United States of America as war zones, "from all or some civilians may be removed," although he did not indicate a specific nationality or ethnic group. As a result, it was applied against one third of the entire US territory (mainly in the west), and was used against people from "unfriendly states" - the Japanese.
        The decree led to the internment of Japanese-Americans and Americans of Japanese descent - about 120,000 ethnic Japanese were held in internment camps during the war. Among Japanese internees, 62% were Nisei (born in America, children of immigrants from Japan who are US citizens by birthright) or Sensei (English) Russian. (Nisei children, also American citizens), the rest were Issei (English) Russian. (immigrants from Japan, permanent residents of the United States).
        Without a doubt, the Japanese-Americans were most affected by this act, since all personalities of Japanese descent were removed from the west coast and southern Arizona. In Hawaii, where more than 140,000 Americans were of Japanese descent (representing 37% of the population), only a few of the most dangerous citizens were isolated.
        Americans of Italian and German descent were also affected by such restrictions, right down to isolation. 11,000 Americans of German descent and 3,000 Americans of Italian descent were interned, along with some Jewish refugees. Internally Jewish refugees arrived from Germany, and the US government at that time did not distinguish between ethnic Jews and ethnic Germans (the practice of Judaism was considered Jewish). Some of the internees of European descent were detained only for a short time, while others were held for several years after the end of the war. Like the interned Japanese, such small groups consisted, among other things, of citizens born in America, especially among children.
        US Secretary of War Henry Lewis Stimson was responsible for facilitating transport, food, housing, and other amenities.
        1. zennon
          zennon 6 August 2013 21: 51
          +1
          Thanks, sensible. Just explain please a difference between
          Japanese-Americans and Japanese-Americans

          hi
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 6 August 2013 22: 06
            +2
            By the time of the attack on Pearl Harbor, about 127 Japanese were living on the West Coast of the continental United States. About 000 of them were born and had US citizenship, the rest were born in Japan and did not have the right to obtain citizenship. Japanese-Americans are ethnic Japanese. Americans born in the United States are of Japanese descent.
          2. The comment was deleted.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 6 August 2013 09: 55
    12
    In Pearl Harbor, the Japanese bombed the fleet. In Hiroshima, civilians were executed.
    1. eplewke
      eplewke 6 August 2013 10: 12
      +3
      Moreover, such a death is executed. Seeing your loved one's eyes rolled up, his skin peeling off and blood vessels bursting ... The fascists were even more humane ... a terrible death.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 6 August 2013 13: 14
        +5
        Quote: eplewke
        The Nazis were even more humane ...

        Do not be mistaken about the Nazis. Do Dr. Mengele and the concentration camps tell you nothing?
        Well, the Japanese warriors in China have done such that even experts (albeit women) fainted when they saw the consequences of their atrocities. So there is no fascism "with a human face", that's why it is fascism.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 August 2013 13: 32
          +3
          Mengele is an angel compared to the Japanese. Do you know why gas chambers appeared? Mass executions badly affected the psyche of soldiers. The Japanese never had such problems with personnel; they did it with pleasure.
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 6 August 2013 14: 10
            +1
            How it happened to you, men. Doctors remembered Mengele (you still remember what ingredient is made of matzo ...) One thing I can say, there were cattle in all countries.
        2. Manager
          Manager 6 August 2013 13: 56
          0
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          fascism.

          Fascism is such a system. This does not mean bullying and violence at all.
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 6 August 2013 17: 59
            +1
            Quote: Manager
            Fascism is such a system. This does not mean bullying and violence at all.

            Maxim, at first I wanted to show the vulnerability of your position in an academic style. Then I thought: "Is it necessary?"
            Therefore, I would advise you to watch the film "Ordinary Fascism" by A. Roma again.
            PS. We are not talking about the form of government, but about the everyday, everyday, the concept of "fascism" and the associations firmly entrenched in this connection in the minds of people.
    2. Gato
      Gato 6 August 2013 10: 30
      +4
      Quote: Iraclius
      In Hiroshima, civilians were executed.

      I do not condone the Americans, but in China (for example, after the capture of Shanghai), the Japanese did not recite hawks to the civilian population.
    3. cdrt
      cdrt 6 August 2013 10: 45
      +4
      In Pearl Harbor, the Japanese bombed the fleet. In Hiroshima, civilians were executed.

      And in Nanjing, did the Japanese also rape the fleet?
      And whether the whole of Southeast Asia fiercely hates the Japanese since then.

      Pearl Harbor was simply an insult to the Americans.

      But the propaganda reason for justifying ANY cruelties in the eyes of the Americans was precisely Nanjing and another event of January 1942, in my opinion, when a Japanese submarine sank an American ship and sailed, lifted most of them and, passing through a line of sailors with bayonets, tortured everyone, throwing the dying in the sea with sharks. A couple of them miraculously survived.
      Actually after that, the Americans believed that by killing the Japanese they cleanse the planet of monsters.

      A good recipe for how to become a monster yourself sad - you just need to start taking revenge and not stop.
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius 6 August 2013 10: 56
        +2
        But about this is not necessary. The Chinese themselves are to blame for their policies. Do you know that in 1931, Chiang Kai-shek ordered not to resist the Japanese troops? So that...
        The Civil War of the Communists and the Kuomintang. When united - it was too late.
        I do not condone the atrocities of the Japanese, but if you live by the principle of "eye for an eye ...", then this can go far.
  • shpuntik
    shpuntik 6 August 2013 10: 10
    +2
    The Sha Satanists guide 100%.
    It’s one thing to drop a bomb on an army, and another on civilians. Ribentrop had a similar attitude: a chair made of human bones.
  • anfreezer
    anfreezer 6 August 2013 10: 13
    +1
    An apocalyptic picture .... but due to the fact that the world saw it, we have been living without world wars already under 68 years ... pah-pah, so as not to jinx it
    1. alone
      alone 6 August 2013 10: 50
      0
      but they knew how to build, individual buildings retained the design
      1. igordok
        igordok 6 August 2013 11: 12
        0
        In both cities, a blast wave swept everything within a radius of 1,6km. from the epicenter. One-
        The skeletons of several particularly strong iron
        tons of buildings that have not collapsed from the blast; most of them
        suffered extensive damage from internal fires that destroyed their windows, doors and
        overlap. All fittings that do not represent a monolithic part of concrete are burned out or
        was demolished. Frameless brick buildings collapsed at greater distances than
        frame or reinforced concrete buildings. The first were completely destroyed in a radius
        1600 whereas the second to 700m. Buildings with anti-seismic construction do not
        received damage to the supporting structures even at a distance of 220m. from the epicenter.
        Hangar-type industrial buildings lost roofs and wall cladding at a distance
        to 3000m. In Nagasaki, the steel mill and torpedo factory were completely destroyed
        Rica. Steel frames of all buildings and buildings a mile from the point of explosion were half-
        swept away. Conventional frame houses were completely destroyed
        in Hiroshima at a distance of 2400-3000m. in Nagasaki 3500-4000m. Serious damage
        houses were marked at a distance of 4800m.

        http://rocketpolk44.narod.ru/yas/a-bomb.htm
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 6 August 2013 13: 21
        +1
        Quote: lonely
        but they knew how to build, individual buildings retained the design

        These are stone buildings. Wooden all burned out. And before that, they took over the HC, thereby protecting the stone buildings.
  • KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 6 August 2013 10: 14
    +6
    Why are Americans better than fascists? The same methods - execution. A firearm on the Indians, atomic bombs on the Japanese, chemical weapons on the Vietnamese, drones on the Afghans ...
  • Semurg
    Semurg 6 August 2013 10: 16
    0
    the only pity is that the amers later used the bomb. If they had flopped it in May and the Yapes surrendered, how many of our people would have survived would they not have come to fight against the Yap in China.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 6 August 2013 11: 09
      0
      Quote: Semurg
      the only pity is that the amers later used the bomb. If they had flopped it in May and the Yapes surrendered, how many of our people would have survived would they not have come to fight against the Yap in China.

      Yes, yes ... I would have to fight in China with the Americans equipped with the atomic bomb ... That would be fun, right?
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. yanus
      yanus 6 August 2013 16: 24