Military Review

The Doomsday War as the last tank battle of the 20 century

111
The Doomsday War as the last tank battle of the 20 century



The Middle East, like forty years ago, continues to remain one of the main pain points on the planet. However, if earlier, in the 60-70s, in this region of the world, fierce wars took place one after another, mainly over the territory, in our time everything has changed, and the Egyptian army is now fighting not with the Israeli tanks, but with their own demonstrators.

The former allies of the Egyptians - the Syrians are also busy only with their internal problems. In Syria, a bloody civil war is raging, the end of which in the near future, apparently, is not foreseen. The eternal enemy of these Arab countries - Israel is still surrounded by unfriendly states, or simply by enemies, moreover, though self-made but from Hamas, from time to time, fall on the heads of Israelis. In addition to the citizens of these countries, few people in the world now remember in detail how Egypt and Syria, on the one hand, and Israel, on the other, launched a large-scale war in this region, some for returning their former ancestral lands, while others defended their very right to exist of the state.

In the autumn of 1973, hundreds of thousands of soldiers and officers, several thousand tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, many different artillery systems, hundreds of airplanes and helicopters met each other on the battlefields of the Sinai desert and on the Golan heights. It was at this time that the fifth war of the 1973 of the year began, known as the "Doomsday War", then the 6 of October 1973 of the year, on the Day of Judgment, the holiest day of the Jewish calendar, Egypt attacked Sinai and Syria on the Golan Heights.

Of all the six Arab-Israeli wars, it was this fifth war that turned out to be the most difficult and even tragic for Israel, it was then that in October 1973, Israel actually had a question whether it would remain a state or not.

Then in early October, as a result of the breakthrough of the line of Barlev and the defeat of the Israeli units, the road to Tel Aviv was actually opened. The front commander Shmuel Gonen, having lost control of the situation, was forced to hand over the command to Ariel Sharon.

Doyen (senior) of the Soviet military diplomatic corps in Egypt, Admiral N.V. Iliev and Ambassador V. Vinogradov recommended A. Sadat to take advantage of the success and continue the offensive. However, the Egyptian president did not heed their advice, saying: "I have a different tactic. Let the Israelis attack, and we will beat them." Perhaps this decision by A. Sadat saved the world from the Third World War. In any case, as it became known later, allegedly on these crucial days, Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir ordered the suspension of nuclear bombs on special squadron aircraft.



The fact that the fifth Arab-Israeli war turned out to be the most ambitious is said by such facts and figures before the outbreak of hostilities, the Egyptian Armed Forces after mobilization numbered 833 thousand people (of which in the operational troops 310 thousand people). The Egyptians launched 2 armored divisions, mechanized divisions 2, 8 20 infantry divisions and brigades of self-propelled (1 Presidential Guard Brigade, Airborne 3, 3 special purpose, tank 3, 1 tactical missiles, 1 3 engineering and artillery).

The technical fleet consisted of 2400 tanks (mainly Soviet-made: T-54/55, T-62, RT-76, and also T-34), 2400 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, 1120 artillery mounts with a caliber above 100 mm, 70 tactical missile launchers missiles, and 30 operational-tactical missiles, 360 air defense missile systems and 2750 air defense artillery systems, as well as 2500 anti-tank systems. Aviation consisted of 420 fighters (160 MiG-21, 60 MiG-19, 200 MiG-17), 130 Su-7 bombers, 48 ​​bombers and attack aircraft (18 Tu-16 and 30 Il-28), 70 military transport aircraft ( 30 An-12, 40 Il-14), approximately 80 Mi-6 and Mi-8 helicopters. The Navy totaled 28 ships.

The closest ally of Egypt, the Syrian army after mobilization, consisted of 332 thousand soldiers and officers (in the operational troops 140 thousand). The ground forces consisted of 2 tank divisions, 3 infantry divisions, 21 self-propelled bp. battalion and battalion of the Desert Guard.

Technical fleet numbered 1820 tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers 1300, 655-caliber artillery over 100-mm, 20 launchers, tactical missiles, air defense missile launchers 360, 1900 air defense artillery systems, anti-tank guns 900, 2800 anti-tank units. The Air Force counted 230 fighters (110 MiG-21, 120 MiG-17), 45 fighter-bomber Su-7, 16 transport aircraft (12 IL-14), 4 IL-18, 36 IL-XNUMX, XNUMX IL-XNUMX, XNUMX IL-XNUMX, XNUMX helicopters.


In addition, troops of other Arab states also acted on the Syrian front. Iraq provided 3-Panzer reinforced structure (20 thousand. Man, 300 tanks, 300 APCs, 54 guns) as well as 73 aircraft (18 MiG-21, 7 MiG-17, 32 Su-7 and 16 Hawker Hunter), Jordan and Saudi Arabia for the armored brigade, Morocco for the mechanized brigade, and the Palestine Liberation Organization for the 2 brigade of special purpose.

After the shame of the six-day war, rearmament, or rather, the reconstruction of the armor power of the Arab armies in 1967 — 1973. It was conducted at an unprecedented pace, and all this under the guidance and with the direct participation of the main ally of the Arabs, the Soviet Union. For example, Egypt during this time received from the USSR 1260 tanks T-54 / 55, 400 T-62, 750 armored personnel carriers BTR-50 and OT-62, 150 of the newest BMP-1 armored personnel carriers, armored reconnaissance vehicles BRDM. The supply of weapons to Syria was no less ambitious. Moreover, the Soviet military specialists undertook all the combat training of the Arab armies.

Particular attention was paid to the air defense of armored units, which received the Kvadrat mobile missile system and the Shilka ZSU. As a result, the anti-aircraft defense of the mobile units of the Arab army increased dramatically, especially clearly at the initial stage of the hostilities, when the Barlev line was stormed, when an Egyptian air defense umbrella was created over the advancing Egyptian ground forces, which Israel could not overcome.

As a result, by the beginning of the hostilities, the Egyptian army counted only about 2200-2400 tanks and self-propelled guns, its ally in the Syrian army was armed with a pretty decent amount of armored vehicles, about 1350-1820 units. tanks and ACS. Thus, the whole armored armada, counted from 3500 to 4000 units. armored vehicles were preparing to simultaneously attack the IDF positions in two directions at once.

Israel, as if it had once been Germany, was planning to impose a war on two fronts at the same time, only with the essential difference that thousands of kilometers lay between the Eastern and Western fronts in Europe, and there was only a dozen kilometers between Sinai and the Golan Heights , so that the slightest mistake or instability of the defense of the troops in the positions could easily lead Israel to a complete disaster.

Unprecedented power was then concentrated in the hands of the Egyptian-Syrian command, and this is not counting their allies - the armies of Iraq, Jordan, Morocco, etc., however, as all subsequent events showed, all this modern technology, all this military power turned out to be rather inept hands.



In response to preparations for the invasion of its Arab neighbors, it is known that Israel made only partial mobilization. At the time of the outbreak of hostilities his army numbered 110 thousand people. The ground forces consisted of 4 armored, 9 mechanized, 1 motorized, 1 airborne and 3 artillery brigades.

After mobilization, the size of the army increased to 415 thousand (of which 310 thousand in the operational forces). After mobilization, ground forces were to consist of 40 brigades (of which 20 tank, 12 motorized and mechanized, 4 paratrooper and 4 artillery), organized in 12 divisions.

The technical fleet consisted of 1850 tanks (Sherman, M-48, Centurion, AMX, and approximately 150 T-54 / 55 and PT-76, captured), 3000 BMP and BTR, 945 artillery installations of a caliber higher than 100-mm, 75M , 1000 air defense artillery installations, 930 anti-tank installations. The Air Force counted 352 fighter (150 A-4, 140 F-4, 50 Mirage-III, 12 Super Mystery) and 56 backup fighters (20 A-4, 36 F-4), 8 bombers, techtchn nychasch nychasch nychasch nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychaste nychas teh nahm teh nychX, 66 F-XNUM, 6 X-NUMX, 130 X-NUMX, 12 A-47, 10 F-97, 30 Mirage-III, 50 Super Mystery -8, 12 C-53, 30 C-205, XNUMX Noratlas, XNUMX attack helicopters (XNUMX Super Freon, XNUMX CH-XNUMX, XNUMX AB-XNUMX.

The main supplier of weapons and the main ally of Israel after the 1967 war, remained the United States, which, despite the embargo announced to Israel, began to actively supply various military equipment and armaments to the country, including the most modern 150 units at that time. tanks M60А1.

During the 1967 war, the 200 tracked BNR M113 was quickly received from the United States. In 1972 — 1973 from the same 448 of armored personnel carriers and command-staff МХNUMX based on М577 came. Another source of replenishment of the fleet of infantry carriers was the captured technology: captured BTR-113P and its Czech variant OT-50 “TOPAZ”.

However, the American supply of modern weapons was clearly not enough, and the Israelis were quite actively engaged in amateur modernization of all the equipment that they had in service, for example, the modernized, improved “Centurion” later received its own Israeli name “Shot” (“Knut "); unofficially the tank was called “Ben-Gurion”.

By the beginning of the 1973 war, most of the Israeli Centurion 700 had been converted into the “Shot” version. Trophy armored vehicles of Soviet production were also actively modernized under the Israeli standard, for example, L54 guns and American machine guns were mounted on several hundreds of T-55 / 7 Arabs seized from Arabs. On the part of these tanks diesel engines were replaced, also on American ones.

In the Israeli armed forces, the upgraded T-54 received an index T-67. Were adopted and captured PT-76, which replaced the machine guns and radio communications equipment.

Thus, the IDF tank park by the fall of 1973g. consisted mostly of obsolete, modernized on their own, modifications of tanks and armored personnel carriers acquired from the arsenals of England, France, captured Arab trophies of Soviet manufacture and received from the United States, mainly modern samples.



Fighting in the "Doomsday War" was not long, only 18 days were completed and 25 October 1973 officially ended. On the whole, the fifth Arab-Israeli war ended as the previous four, again with the complete defeat of the Arab armies and only active Soviet intervention, saved Egypt and Syria from complete disaster and additional territorial losses.

As a result of this rather large-scale, but short-term war, military experts noted that the Arab armies acted successfully and competently, only at the initial stage of the operation, this is when they broke through the defense of Israelis on the Barlev line in Sinai.

The actions of the Israelis are an example of competent active defensive actions in the course of this entire military company. So on the Sinai Peninsula, they demonstrated a blow to the center of the Arab position, which also turned out to be not occupied by the enemy (the Arab command did not allow the possibility that the Israelis could cross the channel, although they themselves had just demonstrated such a crossing). The center of the Arab position was, naturally, the northern shore of the Big Gorky Lake. It was this point that bound both Egyptian armies. With the loss of its all interaction between the armies ceased - the channel, which with such difficulty managed to force, became a barrier in the rear of the Egyptian troops.

In Syria, it was demonstrated that one blow, however strong, can be localized. A counterblow method was applied on the basis of the attacking group from both sides. The geometry of the offensive is always such that the depth of the offensive is greater than the width, so a bilateral counterstrike reaches its goal earlier than the advancing enemy forces.


Data on losses in the wake of the autumn war 1973g. differ from source to source, so according to some data it is known that Israel lost 2412-4000 people killed, from injured 3900 to 12 thousands.
Losses in technology are more accurate: 420 tanks (25%), 390 BMP and BTR (13%), 160 aircraft (30%).

Loss of the Arab countries is much higher: 7600-21000 killed, 8 - 25 thousand wounded, 1270 tanks (25%), 500 BMP and BTR (12%), 460 airplanes and helicopters (43%), about 200 stationary and 220 mobile launchers. installations. http://www.igstab.ru/materials/black/Ism_ArabIsrael.htm
The American magazine National Defense identified hot losses in the May-June issue of 1974. Israeli tank losses were also in 420 units.

However, in the book “Modern tanks” by B.S. Safonov and V.I. Murakhovsky it is written that “losses amounted to at least half of the available tanks,” that is, of the order of 850 machines. Such a significant discrepancy in the Israeli casualty figures can be explained by the fact that the battlefield was left behind by Israeli troops, and their repair units were able to repair damaged vehicles, both their own and the Arab ones, since the experience of operating the Israeli T-55 and PT- 76 already existed.

According to the memoirs of Soviet military advisers in Syria, Arab tanks were often repaired, as they say, “on the knee,” and immediately fought on the Israeli side. Thus, the difference in the numbers of Israeli losses, cited in different sources, can be explained by different methods of counting - all wrecked tanks or only irretrievable losses, only the Israeli armored vehicle itself, or taking into account trophies.
According to another source, the losses of Arab states amounted to 368 airplanes and helicopters, 1775 tanks and armored vehicles, 18500 people were killed, 51000 was wounded, 9370 was captured; Israel lost 114 airplanes and helicopters, 810 tanks and armored vehicles, 2569 people were killed, 7500 wounded and captured - 530. http://www.istpravda.ru/digest/2279/

Results of the war 1973g. in general, were not in favor of the Arab countries. With the mediation of the USSR and the USA on October 24, hostilities were stopped on the Syrian front, on October 25 in the Egyptian one.

After the negotiations in January 1974, Egypt and Israel signed an armistice agreement. Syria and Israel reached an agreement on disengagement four months later. The Israeli forces left the west coast of the Suez Canal and El Quneitra, retaining, however, control over the Golan Heights.

In March, the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty concluded at Camp David by Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin with the mediation of US President Jimmy Carter entered into force in March. Israel left Sinai, retaining only Gaza’s control.

Based on:
http://www.xliby.ru/istorija/sekretnye_voiny_sovetskogo_soyuza/p8.php
http://www.igstab.ru/materials/black/Ism_ArabIsrael.htm
http://btvt.narod.ru/2/wsd.html
http://www.istpravda.ru/digest/2279/
Author:
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  1. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 24 July 2013 06: 55 New
    19
    All is well, except that in Israel it is impossible to talk about approximate losses. They know every dead or wounded person. The idea of ​​the possibility of not just hiding changing the number of losses is absolutely absurd for those who are familiar with Israeli reality. I am not exaggerating. Yes, guys go to any forum where there are Israelis and ask this question. Too small country, too strong press and enormous respect for the army.
    1. Kuzkin Batyan
      Kuzkin Batyan 24 July 2013 07: 18 New
      +9
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      Yes, guys go to any forum where there are Israelis and ask this question.


      They’ll send you right away. Since the Israelis hate the Russians. An example of a Russian-language forum israel-forum.ru. As soon as you registered with the Russian ipishnik, you were sentenced to ban for one awkward word))))
    2. RPG_
      RPG_ 24 July 2013 07: 57 New
      +1
      Well then, list here all the dead (first name last name is not necessary), and we will calculate together with you. It only seems easy, in fact, it’s impossible to correctly calculate all of them and it’s also possible to hide losses.
      1. Toit
        Toit 24 July 2013 08: 38 New
        +7
        Quote: RPG_
        Well then, list here all the dead (first name last name is not necessary), and we will calculate together with you. It only seems easy, in fact, it’s impossible to correctly calculate all of them and it’s also possible to hide losses.


        Read, if not enough, that is, the sites of each brigade, which lists the fallen soldiers of this particular brigade, and there is also a book in memory of ALL fallen and missing soldiers for all the wars of Israel.
        The realities of a small country and Middle Eastern wars allow this to be done, unlike, for example, the Great Patriotic War.
        http://www.kippurim.co.il/index.php?dir=site&page=casualties
        1. Professor
          Professor 24 July 2013 10: 17 New
          +5
          Quote: Toit
          Read, if not enough, that is, the sites of each brigade, which lists the fallen soldiers of this particular brigade, and there is also a book in memory of ALL fallen and missing soldiers for all the wars of Israel.

          It was he who, for a red word, without thinking, blurted out.

          In addition to this resource http://www.kippurim.co.il/index.php?dir=site&page=casualties
          lists of all those who died in all wars since the 1884 year here:
          http://www.yadlabanim.org.il/cgi-webaxy/sal/sal.pl?lang=he&ID=878080_ylabanim&db
          id = noflim & act = sform



          On the eve of Memorial Day: 23.085 killed in the Israeli wars
          The Ministry of Defense reports that the number of dead and deceased in the line of duty of military personnel, police and security personnel is currently 23.085 people.

          At the same time, it is specified that from the last Memorial Day, which happened on April 25, 92 names were added to this mournful list: of them 37 are the dead IDF soldiers, 12 security forces officers, and 43 IDF disabled veterans, also recognized as fallen in the Israeli wars .

          The number of families who died in the Israeli wars amounted to 17.553, in addition, 2.324 orphans and 4964 widows of IDF soldiers are not forgotten.
          1. воронов
            воронов 24 July 2013 22: 11 New
            0
            Quote: Professor
            In addition to this resource http://www.kippurim.co.il/index.php?dir=site&page=casualties lists of all those who died in all wars since the 1884 year here: http: //www.yadlabanim.org.il/cgi -webaxy / sal / sal.pl? lang = he & ID = 878080_ylaba
            nim & dbid = noflim & act = sform

            Came in and what? It is written in Hebrew, as it is known that its glory to God in educational institutions (except for specific ones) in the USSR and in Russia did not and does not teach, so your excuse is about nothing
            1. Professor
              Professor 24 July 2013 22: 55 New
              +1
              Quote: voronov
              Came in and what? It is written in Hebrew, as it is known that its glory to God in educational institutions (except for specific ones) in the USSR and in Russia did not and does not teach, so your excuse is about nothing

              "Excuses" are you, and I have a link to accurate information. Google translate to help you.
        2. Kars
          Kars 24 July 2013 10: 32 New
          +7
          Well, comrades from the Promised Land, share a photo of the T-62 of this war that doesn’t get into Google. They didn’t give me a merkava, but I presented the launched T-62 to me, I want to do something similar for myself.
          1. igor67
            igor67 24 July 2013 12: 58 New
            +1
            [quote = Kars] Well, comrades from the Promised Land, share a photo of the T-62 of this war that doesn’t get into Google. They didn’t give me a merkava, but they presented me with the T-62 that I started, I want to make it myself. I found an old film, there are no new pictures.
            1. Kars
              Kars 24 July 2013 13: 08 New
              +2
              And thanks for that
            2. svp67
              svp67 24 July 2013 20: 11 New
              0
              Quote: igor67
              . I found an old film, there are no new pictures.
              Interestingly, it seems that they fell under the flanking fire of a well-organized ambush ... did you even have time to answer?
              1. igor67
                igor67 24 July 2013 20: 47 New
                +1
                Quote: svp67
                Quote: igor67
                . I found an old film, there are no new pictures.
                Interestingly, it seems that they fell under the flanking fire of a well-organized ambush ... did you even have time to answer?

                This is not an ambush, this is the Golan Heights, and if you read the article carefully, Israel also lost a lot of armored vehicles, and one of the advantages of Israeli tanks could shoot at longer distances than Soviet tanks, but. At night, the Soviet T62 had an advantage (infrared sight) that it was stupidly not used properly
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 24 July 2013 19: 56 New
            0
            Would you ask
          3. Pimply
            Pimply 24 July 2013 20: 01 New
            +1
            http://idf-armor.blogspot.ru/2008/07/m-48-frog.html

            http://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&re
            q = viewtopic & topic_id = 194615

            Have fun here 8)
            1. Kars
              Kars 24 July 2013 20: 03 New
              +1
              Thank.)))))))
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 24 July 2013 20: 21 New
                +2
                Always glad, for a good person, do not mind
    3. svp67
      svp67 24 July 2013 10: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      All is well, except that in Israel it is impossible to talk about approximate losses.
      This inspires respect, but the question is - "volunteers" - Jews from other countries - also fought in your army, and how were their losses counted?
      1. Professor
        Professor 24 July 2013 10: 29 New
        +4
        Quote: svp67
        This inspires respect, but the question is - "volunteers" - Jews from other countries - also fought in your army, and how were their losses counted?

        These are not volunteers, but repatriates who have received citizenship or a residence permit and their losses are included in the general list.
        1. svp67
          svp67 24 July 2013 13: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Professor
          These are not volunteers, but repatriates who have received citizenship or a residence permit and their losses are included in the general list.
          You know better, I just know perfectly well the people who were holding the documents of the dead Israeli pilots from the downed planes, and so, according to them, the documents were American, Swedish ... It turns out that even the passports did not change, but immediately into battle.
          1. Toit
            Toit 24 July 2013 14: 52 New
            0
            Quote: svp67
            You know better, I just know perfectly well the people who were holding the documents of the dead Israeli pilots from the downed planes, and so, according to them, the documents were American, Swedish ... It turns out that even the passports did not change, but immediately into battle.

            In 48, almost yes, all that later, documents to the studio please, it would be interesting to take a look.
            1. svp67
              svp67 24 July 2013 17: 23 New
              +1
              Quote: Toit
              In 48, almost yes, all that later, documents to the studio please, it would be interesting to take a look.

              Alas, I can’t, but what about this:
              At 7 hours 10 minutes 5 June 1967, parts of Israeli troops under the command of Generals Tal, Ioffe and Sharon invaded Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

              At 8 hours Israeli bombs hit 12 Egyptian airfields and the Cairo West military base. 25 Arab aircraft were completely destroyed on the ground, thus ensuring the complete domination of the Israeli Air Force in the air. This Operation Focus was prepared in advance, and in addition to the Tel Aviv pilots, US military pilots also took part in it. For instance, US Air Force Major Bo Larson later said in press pages that in June 1967, 192 American pilots arrived in Israel under the guise of tourists.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 24 July 2013 20: 03 New
                0
                Quote: svp67
                US Air Force Major Bo Larson later said in press pages that in June 1967, 192 American pilots arrived in Israel under the guise of tourists.

                Original quote, plz
              2. Professor
                Professor 24 July 2013 20: 36 New
                +2
                Quote: svp67
                For example, U.S. Air Force Major Bo Larson later stated in the press that in June 1967, 192 American pilots arrived in Israel under the guise of tourists.

                Another urban legend.
          2. Professor
            Professor 24 July 2013 20: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            You know better, I just know perfectly well the people who were holding the documents of the dead Israeli pilots from the downed planes, and so, according to them, the documents were American, Swedish ... It turns out that even the passports did not change, but immediately into battle.

            These people are lying to you, there wasn’t such a thing. I can imagine what kind of morons it is necessary for a Swede to be put on a combat plane without having seized his native documents. fool
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 24 July 2013 20: 02 New
        0
        Volunteers fought only in the War of Independence. Subsequently - only the regular army
  2. TRex
    TRex 24 July 2013 07: 18 New
    17
    Once again reminded - what th ... e soldiers, these Arabs. Arm, do not arm - there was no sense and never will be. How much dough was swelled into Egypt and Syria (then it was the ARE and SAR), how much more is needed is unknown. At least give them Jedi swords in their hands - only they will mutilate each other ... Allah A kbar!
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 24 July 2013 09: 31 New
      +2
      Quote: TRex
      Once again reminded - what th ... e soldiers, these Arabs. Arm, do not arm - there was no sense and never will be. How much dough was swelled into Egypt and Syria (then it was the ARE and SAR), how much more is needed is unknown. At least give them Jedi swords in their hands - only they will mutilate each other ... Allah A kbar!

      You are not confused about the Syrians. Guys have been fighting for 3 years in the most difficult conditions on their streets. For them, this is Chechnya.
      1. vyatom
        vyatom 24 July 2013 16: 53 New
        +3
        Quote: PROXOR
        You are not confused about the Syrians. Guys have been fighting for 3 years in the most difficult conditions on their streets. For them, this is Chechnya.

        If they knew how to really fight, the civil war would have ended long ago.
        1. воронов
          воронов 24 July 2013 22: 18 New
          0
          Quote: vyatom
          If they knew how to really fight, the civil war would have ended long ago.

          Civil wars do not come from the ability to fight, they are created by politicians, and the people disentangle
    2. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 24 July 2013 12: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: TRex
      Once again reminded - what th ... e soldiers, these Arabs. Arm, do not arm - there was no sense and never will be.

      You are only partly right. On a personal level, the same Syrians and Egyptians, even according to the Israelis, often demonstrated personal courage and perseverance and a willingness to sacrifice themselves. Soviet advisers also noted these qualities of Arabs (certainly Syrians - I read about them). Problems began in the field of discipline, training and management - the same Soviet advisers noted such negative aspects of the Arabs as impatience, poor learning (coupled with a fairly low level of education), inability to navigate the environment, a commitment to stereotyped actions and inability / unwillingness to backtrack outlined plans.
      Naturally, all of the above should not be taken for the ultimate truth and projected onto all Arabs, because, I am sure, in the Armed Forces and Syria and Egypt there were enough talented and educated fighters and commanders, as well as cowards and alarmists, but also to brush aside these estimates also probably should not.
      1. Scoun
        Scoun 24 July 2013 13: 23 New
        +2
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        The problems started in the field of discipline, training and management,

        This paragraph "impressed" me .....
        in Egypt, Admiral N.V. Iliev and Ambassador V. Vinogradov recommended A. Sadat to take advantage of the success and continue the offensive. However, the Egyptian president did not heed their advice, saying: “I have a different tactic. Let the Israelis attack, and we will beat them. "Perhaps this decision of A. Sadat then saved the world from World War III. In any case, as it became known later, allegedly it is on these crucial days Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir has ordered the suspension of nuclear bombs

        Sadat's tactics "impressed" with their sophisticated thoughtfulness ...
        Well, actually about nuclear weapons ..
        Israel would become the second state after the United States to use nuclear weapons ... even to suggest dumb how it would all end ...
      2. vyatom
        vyatom 24 July 2013 16: 54 New
        0
        The five wasted wars say a lot. They attacked suddenly, but did not achieve success.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 24 July 2013 17: 22 New
          0
          Quote: vyatom
          The five wasted wars say a lot. They attacked suddenly, but did not achieve success.

          The attacks were not "sudden".
        2. Gladiatir-zlo
          Gladiatir-zlo 24 July 2013 22: 36 New
          0
          Well, about the suddenness, here I think it was different, how much they write that in the east there are two worthy men of business - trade and war, and it is very excellent to combine these matters. And the Jews pay well for the Old. And all the same, almost three times the superiority of the attackers, a relatively compact theater of operations, the duration of the conflict is less than a month and this is a war ??????? Yes, even though five such warriors in a row, about 150-200 thousand people lost their lives, large countries will give weapons. What not to fight? beauty, especially the elite, took her children to Europe and the USA, at least henna. , However.
        3. Beck
          Beck 25 July 2013 07: 02 New
          +4
          The local Jews, on the site, are silent from modesty. I am not a Jew and I won’t keep a beat.

          Where are those who cried out that the Jews can only fight with the unarmed, only with the civilians. Like only fighters with small arms are driven by airplanes. They are silent by sticking their tongues somewhere.

          Rough counting. In the war of Doomsday. Arab armies 1 soldiers, Tsahal 165. Arab tanks 000, Jewish 415. BMPs and armored personnel carriers 000 and 4520, respectively. Aircraft 1850 and 4000. And the Arab armies beat the spirit and discipline to the nines.

          If not for the UN, Jewish soldiers would march along the streets of Cairo and Damascus.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 25 July 2013 11: 54 New
            0
            Quote: Beck
            Rough counting. In the war of Doomsday. Arab army 1 soldiers, Zahal 165.

            The count is really rough. For example, the group of the Egyptian army on the Asian coast of the Canal was 90-100 thousand people, while its forces numbered almost 850 thousand people, so Egypt used about 20% of its aircraft (including the Air Force and Navy) to conduct a database against Israel.
            On the Syrian front, a little more than 100 thousand people acted against the Jews, including Iraqis and Jordanians.
            Israel started the war with 110 thousand soldiers, but after a few days had more than 400 thousand, of which more than 300 thousand in operational / combat units.
            1. Beck
              Beck 25 July 2013 15: 17 New
              0
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              For example, the grouping of the Egyptian army on the Asian coast of the Canal was 90 - 100 thousand people


              I don’t know where you got the data. I took the data from the article. He composed the Egyptian, Syrian armies and brigades of other Arab countries. Let the difference be 10-20-30 thousand, but still half.
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 25 July 2013 19: 40 New
                0
                Quote: Beck
                I don’t know where you got the data.

                "You". I understand that now it seems like an anachronism, but according to the rules of the Russian language, referring to a stranger who did not offer and did not allow to switch to "you", it is supposed to say "you".
                Quote: Beck
                I don’t know where you got the data.

                Google and yes to you there. Hint - look for the parts that took part in the battles and their OSHR.
                Another clue - from Egypt, to force the Channel, 5 divisions in the first echelon, 4 divisions in the second echelon, 1 in the reserve (not forwarded) were envisaged. Part of the support unit for these divisions through the Channel also did not cross.
                In the Golan, the Arabs had 6 divisions (counting Iraqi) and 4 brigades (counting Jordanian).
                Quote: Beck
                I took the data from the article. He folded the Egyptian, Syrian armies and brigades of other Arab countries

                This is the same as comparing the entire Soviet army only with the German one, without taking into account the Germans' allies on June 22, 1941 and not taking into account that the Red Army was spread throughout the USSR and the Third Reich strike group was compactly on the border.
                So in this situation - a significant part of the Arab armies did not participate in the war. Unlike the army of Israel, because at first they were afraid that the furry northern animal with valuable fur was already on the doorstep.
                Quote: Beck
                Let the difference be 10-20-30 thousand, but still half.

                Sorry, I don’t understand the meaning of this proposal, and they turned off the connection to the astral for non-payment, so if it’s not difficult for you to explain what you wanted to say.
                1. Beck
                  Beck 26 July 2013 01: 25 New
                  0
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  Sorry, I don’t understand the meaning of this proposal, and they turned off the connection to the astral for non-payment, so if it’s not difficult for you to explain what you wanted to say.


                  Your astral is somehow on my side.

                  And what was painted? I could have omitted the numbers at all and, in terms of meaning, said that the Arab armies were half the Israeli army in all respects and were defeated anyway. A million to 500 thousand or 500 to 250 is still doubled. And I did not chase the accuracy of the numbers. Nobody will give exact numbers. Each source has its own figures and converge in only one thing - there were twice as many Arab soldiers.
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 26 July 2013 19: 48 New
                    0
                    Quote: Beck
                    And what was painted?

                    I understand ... One can only regret that the myths are so deeply rooted, and the slopes of modern youth to calculate the real balance of power is not enough. And thyama, it’s such a thing ... you can’t buy it in a pharmacy like condoms ...
                    1. Beck
                      Beck 26 July 2013 20: 51 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Rakti-Kali
                      I understand ... One can only regret that the myths are so deeply rooted, and the slopes of modern youth to calculate the real balance of power is not enough. And tyma, it’s such a thing ... you can’t buy it in a pharmacy like condoms ..


                      And now, what kind of mania, a site interlocutor whom you can’t see in person, you must consider young and a kid and make a reproach on this.

                      60 years old to me. I saw a lot of things, I didn’t see even more. And he went there and went here. I was looking for something that I did not lose. And he ate gingerbread cookies and swallowed a bitter tear. In general, he lived as he could.
                      1. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 27 July 2013 00: 11 New
                        0
                        Quote: Beck
                        And now, what kind of mania, a site interlocutor whom you can’t see in person, you must consider young and a kid and make a reproach on this.

                        If my words hurt you, I offer you my sincere apologies.
                        But if you want to not be mistaken for a teenager, try to soften your writing style a little.
                        Quote: Beck
                        60 years old to me. I saw a lot of things, I didn’t see even more. And he went there and went here. I was looking for something that I did not lose. And he ate gingerbread cookies and swallowed a bitter tear. In general, he lived as he could.

                        Here you are an old man with considerable life experience, and you probably should understand that the answers to questions do not always lie on the surface. And it’s impossible to find the right answer to some questions if we approach their solution superficially.
    3. igor67
      igor67 24 July 2013 12: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: TRex
      Once again reminded - what th ... e soldiers, these Arabs. Arm, do not arm - there was no sense and never will be. How much dough was swelled into Egypt and Syria (then it was the ARE and SAR), how much more is needed is unknown. At least give them Jedi swords in their hands - only they will mutilate each other ... Allah A kbar!

      Syria began negotiations with Russia on granting a loan to Damascus. This, as Interfax reports, said Syrian Deputy Prime Minister Kadri Jamil, who is on an official visit to Moscow. According to him, the issue of credit has already been discussed with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. In Russia, the Syrian official’s statement has not yet been reacted.

      Jamil added that Damascus hopes to get a loan before the end of the year. On what terms Syria would like to receive money and how much, he refused to speak.

      Syria has already talked about the possible receipt of money in Russia: the first reports about this appeared back in 2012. However, since then Damascus has not received money from Moscow.

      Syria needs an inflow of currency due to the fact that a civil war has been going on in the country for two years, during which more than one hundred thousand people died. In relation to Syria, severe economic sanctions from several countries, primarily the United States. They were introduced at the beginning of the war and then partially withdrawn to assist Syrian rebels fighting against the forces of President Bashar al-Assad.
    4. vyatom
      vyatom 24 July 2013 16: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: TRex
      Once again reminded - what th ... e soldiers, these Arabs

      That's for sure. Only our weapons were dishonored to the whole world. Even the Vietnamese at that time very successfully used our weapons. The situation in Syria and Egypt once again shows what kind of allies and soldiers they are.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 24 July 2013 20: 54 New
        0
        Quote: vyatom
        what are these allies and soldiers.

        And Khattab did not seem to be a Jew but a purebred Arab. And all sorts of Basaevs and Umarovs were financed not by damned Zionists, but by just orthodox Muslims.
      2. воронов
        воронов 24 July 2013 22: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: vyatom
        Even the Vietnamese at that time very successfully used our weapons

        You do not compare the Vietnamese with the Arabs, the Arabs are not suitable for them. At the end of the 70, immediately after the end of the US-Vietnam war, the Chinese tried to snoop into northern Vietnam so their regular army units managed to gouge before the army regular Vietnamese units arrived Vietnamese border guards and militias.
  3. anip
    anip 24 July 2013 07: 34 New
    10
    What can I say, the Israelis know how to fight, otherwise Israel will not survive.
  4. Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 24 July 2013 07: 47 New
    14
    Arabs, such Arabs ...
    My chief of staff was a military adviser in Syria for a very long time, and then in Afghanistan, even before the introduction of a limited contingent (under Amin). His memories of counseling in Syria are very sad: idlers and loafers, extremely optional, non-executive military ... For two years NSh, Captain Chernov S.G. (fond memory), tried to teach them how to be sappers - it's useless. Of the nine officers (unit commanders), only two or three were normal people, and even then, probably because they received military education in the Union and went through our "school" first ... About the soldier he generally said that the only thing they do in the service is what try to please the tyrant chiefs or are extinguished from the commanders. Units were sane, only those who were either students or graduated from high school in the city.
    With regard to this article: here we have as a result what we have ... Every Arab officer imagines himself the supreme commander, and this, as a result, is a mismatch in actions, a low level of communication and executive discipline leading to the failure of the operation, and the soldiers seem to be and they want to do something, but it would be better if they did nothing at all, because "equipment in the hands of a savage is a pile of scrap metal." Then Chernov usually began to swear abusively ...
    The Israelis, as usual, showed efficiency in decision-making, high organization and quality of management, communications, etc. Moreover, when it comes, literally, to the survival of your family, and of the people as a whole, the attitude to the performance of your duties among the military personnel, you will agree completely different ...
    Aron, if you have accurate data on the losses of the IDF in this war, share ... This will give a more complete picture ...
    1. Professor
      Professor 24 July 2013 10: 25 New
      +6
      Israeli casualties in the Doomsday War
      fallen xnumx
      wounded Xnumx
      prisoners 294
      102 aircraft
      5 helicopters
      800 tanks
      BMP 100
      gun mounts 25
      1 Air Defense Battery
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 24 July 2013 13: 33 New
        0
        Prisoners - 294.
        What then with them? Exchanged, returned?
        Or..?
        And you yourself have killed Arab prisoners?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 24 July 2013 20: 18 New
          -1
          The exchange lasted until 1974.

          http://www.shely-shraiman.narod.ru/texts/plennye.html
        2. igor67
          igor67 24 July 2013 20: 50 New
          +1
          Quote: Igarr
          Prisoners - 294.
          What then with them? Exchanged, returned?
          Or..?
          And you yourself have killed Arab prisoners?

          My neighbor was in captivity, he showed photos of where they were freed with the help of the Red Cross, there in the pictures he and 70 other people met at the airport the family and Gold Meir
          1. воронов
            воронов 24 July 2013 22: 34 New
            0
            Quote: igor67
            My neighbor was a prisoner,

            Neighbor order or medal for what was captured was not awarded? They accepted it laughing
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 24 July 2013 23: 31 New
              0
              Who has "them". And what do you know in principle about the system of awards of the State of Israel, for example?
      2. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx 24 July 2013 14: 26 New
        0
        Quote: Professor
        800 tanks

        However, there are almost twice as many tanks as in the article.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 24 July 2013 20: 15 New
          0
          According to Granovsky, during the war, 820 IDF tanks were damaged for a period of 24 hours or more, incl. about 400 lost forever; according to another source, 1,063 tanks were damaged, of which 407 were lost - 365 on the southern front and 42 on the northern front, and among the lost tanks 243 remained in the territory controlled by the enemy; and of the 820 evacuated, only 164 were deemed unrepairable.
      3. byrnas
        24 July 2013 20: 27 New
        0
        In terms of casualties, BTT agrees, but there were a few more prisoners than 294, more than 500 people ...............
        1. Professor
          Professor 24 July 2013 20: 37 New
          0
          Quote: byrnas
          In terms of casualties, BTT agrees, but there were a few more prisoners than 294, more than 500 people ...............

          discard a list please.
      4. воронов
        воронов 24 July 2013 22: 32 New
        -4
        Quote: Professor
        Israeli casualties in the Doomsday War
        fallen xnumx
        wounded Xnumx
        prisoners 294
        102 aircraft
        5 helicopters
        800 tanks
        BMP 100
        gun mounts 25
        1 Air Defense Battery

        They would have to fight with us, then their losses were many times greater laughing
        1. Professor
          Professor 24 July 2013 22: 58 New
          +4
          Quote: voronov
          They would have to fight with us, then their losses were many times greater

          If only ... If my grandmother had ... well, further in the text. For your information, only in Egypt at that time there were several tens of thousands of Soviet "advisers" - the result is known.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 25 July 2013 00: 26 New
            0
            Quote: Professor
            Yes, if only ... If my grandmother had ... well, hereinafter.

            I agree with this.
            Quote: Professor
            For your information, only in Egypt at that time there were several tens of thousands of Soviet "advisers" - the result is known.

            By the end of 1972? "No sonny, this is fantastic" (c). At best, a few hundred.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 25 July 2013 01: 32 New
              0
              In the middle of summer - about 20000. By the end - yes, mostly aviation specialists and translators.

              Soviet specialists in Egypt mainly took part in the War of Attrition.
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay 25 July 2013 00: 29 New
          0
          Quote: voronov
          They would have to fight with us, then their losses were many times greater

          It is unlikely that they could have been able to maintain statehood, but only if the USSR had been !!
        3. Beck
          Beck 25 July 2013 15: 41 New
          0
          Quote: voronov
          They would have to fight with us, then their losses were many times greater


          How can I say that? It’s easy to mean war with another state, without taking into account blood, suffering, lives.

          And on the very surface bragging indefatigable. Yes, we, yes all, yes just to spit.

          I agree that if suddenly, in a nightmare, Russia decides to fight with Israel on a full scale, It may win, but 1/3 of Russia, the western part, will lie in ruins. Because the Jews have atomic weapons and delivery vehicles - Jericho 3 missiles with a range of 6 km. Consider intercontinental and with one of the best electronics. And this is without taking into account the reaction of the West.

          Well, if you take the battalion to the battalion, then given the experience that soldiers of other countries do not have, the Jewish battalion, for today, will not let anyone down. And experience is 65 years of hostilities and five victorious wars. Does the Russian army have such an experience?
      5. byrnas
        24 July 2013 23: 34 New
        0
        There were a few more prisoners, 530 people, but that's true for BTT.
        http://www.istpravda.ru/digest/2279/
    2. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 24 July 2013 16: 10 New
      0
      Everything went and everything changed, at the moment it is a fully trained army capable of conducting military operations with any enemy in the region if it is re-equipped with more or less modern air defense and air forces.
  5. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 24 July 2013 08: 53 New
    +4
    Quote: TRex
    Once again reminded - what th ... e soldiers, these Arabs. Arm, do not arm - there was no sense and never will be. How much dough was swelled into Egypt and Syria (then it was the ARE and SAR), how much more is needed is unknown. At least give them Jedi swords in their hands - only they will mutilate each other ... Allah A kbar!

    Here it is. And many of us are advocating that we put Syria S-300. What’s the point? What would Israel sooner or later grab it and delve into it? Especially if Assad’s regime doesn’t stand then there’ll be a gift — I don’t want to study it .
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 24 July 2013 09: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      Here it is. And many of us are advocating that we put Syria S-300. What’s the point? What would Israel sooner or later grab it and delve into it? Especially if Assad’s regime doesn’t stand then there’ll be a gift — I don’t want to study it .

      Believe me, Israel has already rummaged there. With the light hands of our smaller brothers from Nezalezhnaya these complexes have long been available to everyone who is interested.
      1. smiths xnumx
        smiths xnumx 24 July 2013 09: 54 New
        +5
        Dear PROXOR, do not forget that the S-300, although in export modification, is OFFICIALLY in service with the NATO member states: Bulgaria, a certain number of S-300Ps, supplied by the Soviet Union; Slovakia a certain number of S-300PM1 supplied by Russia as part of debt recovery; 2 S-300PMU-2 batteries delivered to Cyprus are based on the Greek island of Cyprus, and are included in the air defense system of Greece, as well as Croatia, according to The Military Balance, a very authoritative publication in international circles, from 2010. Yes, and the United States itself has a disassembled 1 RPN and PU 5P85, purchased from Belarus; an attempt to purchase 2 RPNs and spare parts for them through Kazakhstan from Russia ended in failure. Officially purchased S-300V, without MSNR 9S32. Do not forget about active military cooperation between Israel and Azerbaijan, where 2011 S-2PMU-300 divisions were delivered in 2. The Israeli Air Force also has experience in training battles with MiG-29s, conducted in the Negev desert with MiG-29 planes with MiG-29 fighters "from an unnamed Eastern European country2, and Israeli pilots in some cases sat at the controls of the MiG-29. Regards! hi
        1. PROXOR
          PROXOR 24 July 2013 10: 17 New
          -2
          Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
          Dear PROXOR, do not forget that the S-300, although in export modification, is OFFICIALLY in service with the NATO member states: Bulgaria, a certain number of S-300Ps, supplied by the Soviet Union; Slovakia a certain number of S-300PM1 supplied by Russia as part of debt recovery; 2 S-300PMU-2 batteries delivered to Cyprus are based on the Greek island of Cyprus, and are included in the air defense system of Greece, as well as Croatia, according to The Military Balance, a very authoritative publication in international circles, from 2010. Yes, and the United States itself has a disassembled 1 RPN and PU 5P85, purchased from Belarus; an attempt to purchase 2 RPNs and spare parts for them through Kazakhstan from Russia ended in failure. Officially purchased S-300V, without MSNR 9S32. Do not forget about active military cooperation between Israel and Azerbaijan, where 2011 S-2PMU-300 divisions were delivered in 2. The Israeli Air Force also has experience in training battles with MiG-29s, conducted in the Negev desert with MiG-29 planes with MiG-29 fighters "from an unnamed Eastern European country2, and Israeli pilots in some cases sat at the controls of the MiG-29. Regards!
          This is all clear. That's exactly what the export option is. And Ukraine has just an option for domestic use. And I highly doubt that they refused to share his secrets with NATO.
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 24 July 2013 10: 31 New
        +2
        Quote: PROXOR
        These complexes have long been available to all who are interested.

        And if at the same time they continue seriously fear, it is clearly not due to bloated PR. Rather, they actually believe that this is an ARGUMENT lol
        1. PROXOR
          PROXOR 24 July 2013 10: 34 New
          -1
          Quote: Misantrop
          And if at the same time they continue to be seriously feared, then obviously not because of the inflated PR. Explicitly consider this to be ARGUMENT

          It’s not necessary to take apart the rocket itself, it will take more time to identify the compositions of the materials used in the construction of the rockets and it will be very difficult when they try to understand the brains of the rocket. Why does she think so, how does she make decisions, etc. In general, the C300 is still such a splinter !!!!!
          1. dustycat
            dustycat 24 July 2013 19: 40 New
            0
            Quote: PROXOR

            It’s not necessary to take apart the rocket itself, it will take more time to identify the compositions of the materials used in the construction of the rockets and it will be very difficult when they try to understand the brains of the rocket. Why does she think so, how does she make decisions, etc. In general, the C300 is still such a splinter !!!!!

            Iron is not the main thing in intercepting a target. You can adapt any person to perform the necessary functions.
            The main thing is the mathematics of interception.
            Israel had Patriots - but it didn’t smell like an iron dome.
            We got to know better the C300 - an iron dome appeared.
      3. Scoun
        Scoun 24 July 2013 13: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: PROXOR
        Believe me, Israel has already rummaged there. With the light hand of our smaller brothers from Nezalezhnaya

        Yehh ... there are so many different tales about Greece about Nezalezhnaya ... although everything is much more prosaic ...
      4. high
        high 27 July 2013 21: 36 New
        0
        You are right, According to the media, Greece has a S-300, with which Israel conducts joint exercises ..... Israeli specialists studied the S-300, which allowed the Israeli Minister of Defense to declare for a couple of weeks that Israel has an answer to the S-300. .
    2. dustycat
      dustycat 24 July 2013 19: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay

      Here it is. And many of us are advocating that we put Syria S-300. What’s the point? What would Israel sooner or later grab it and delve into it? Especially if Assad’s regime doesn’t stand then there’ll be a gift — I don’t want to study it .

      What do you think an effective Iron Dome on Patriot's mathematics could be built? But not built.
      And how did the C300 from the VD countries and export to NATO get to them for inspection - they built it.
      So they do not just write about the c300 in Syria - they perfectly understand its capabilities.
  6. LM66
    LM66 24 July 2013 10: 17 New
    +2
    It looks like on this forum any topic ends with the S-300, just an absolute weapon
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 24 July 2013 10: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: LM66
      It looks like on this forum any topic ends with the S-300, just an absolute weapon
      4
      Well, not absolute, but specifically sobering for countries that are used to winning wars with bombing. Israel is no exception.
  7. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 24 July 2013 10: 50 New
    +2
    The S-300, of course, is not an absolute weapon, but it can cause a lot of problems for the Israeli Air Force, and indeed many other lovers of "democratizing" foreign countries with the help of bombers. As for the Israelis, remember the shock that the Israeli Air Force faced, at the beginning of the same October war of 1973, when faced with the multi-echeloned Arab air defense system S-75, S-125, KUB M1, ZA and Strela-2 MANPADS) created by Soviet specialists when they lost about 50 aircraft in the first two days, and if not for the urgently delivered within the American "air bridge", electronic warfare kits and Shrike missiles, as well as not the mistakes of the Arabs (the tanks came out of " missile umbrella "), and subsequently a tank raid by the Israelis on the western bank of the Suez Canal, one of the main goals of which was the destruction of the Egyptian air defense system, it is not known how else it would have ended. Yours faithfully! hi
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 24 July 2013 10: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
      The S-300, of course, is not an absolute weapon, but it can cause a lot of problems for the Israeli Air Force, and indeed many other lovers of "democratizing" foreign countries with the help of bombers. As for the Israelis, remember the shock that the Israeli Air Force faced, at the beginning of the same October war of 1973, when faced with the multi-echeloned Arab air defense system S-75, S-125, KUB M1, ZA and Strela-2 MANPADS) created by Soviet specialists when they lost about 50 aircraft in the first two days, and if not for the urgently delivered within the American "air bridge", electronic warfare kits and Shrike missiles, as well as not the mistakes of the Arabs (the tanks came out of " missile umbrella "), and subsequently a tank raid by the Israelis on the western bank of the Suez Canal, one of the main goals of which was the destruction of the Egyptian air defense system, it is not known how else it would have ended. Yours faithfully!

      They scored an update on the link of the latest MIG-25R. Which plowed at an altitude of 30 meters and filmed the territory of Israel. Moreover, the Isravites were seen on the radar but could not get it. MIG-25 was faster and flew higher. Only Blackbird flew above, but this is no longer a combat aircraft, but a purely reconnaissance one.
  8. revnagan
    revnagan 24 July 2013 12: 41 New
    -2
    It’s a pity, the Arabs didn’t finalize the wires. And now try to take that Israel. And yet it seems to me that this is a matter of time.
  9. Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 24 July 2013 12: 45 New
    +6
    Then, in early October, as a result of the breakthrough of the Barlev line and the defeat of Israeli units, the path to Tel Aviv was actually opened.

    And here the author is a little disingenuous. The divisions of Mendler, Adan, and Sharon, despite heavy losses in technology, did their job - during October 6-8, while conducting continuous, often suicidal attacks against the Egyptians, they were able to block or impede the expansion of the bridgehead by the enemy.
    Although, probably, it is also worth remembering that, firstly, Sadat didn’t plan to dredge Jerusalem - this war, in essence, was supposed to be not victorious, then small, and to solve mainly Egypt’s internal political problems, but -secondly, proceeding from the first, when the Egyptians crossed the Channel, they essentially solved all the operational tasks assigned to them, and then the factor of inability to act not according to the plan worked and Sadat’s order to advance on October 14 came as a surprise even to Shazli and Ali (both of which are directly called its strategic error). Yes, in fact, that was precisely what he was - without providing air defense, not having sufficient forces on the eastern coast of the Canal, not having large reserves to counter crises on the western coast of the Canal, missing the initiative of the first days of the war, allowing the enemy to regroup and assess the situation, to tighten reserves - the Egyptian army was doomed to disaster.
  10. ed65b
    ed65b 24 July 2013 13: 50 New
    +2
    they said to the Egyptian moron come on don’t lose the initiative so no did in Arabic. Rams. Now the Jews are craping us. Have no such friends of enemies.
    1. smiths xnumx
      smiths xnumx 24 July 2013 14: 18 New
      +2
      Forgive me dear ed65b, but why did the Egyptians have to advance, they, according to the old Arab habit, were preparing to rake in the heat with someone else's hands, especially since the Syrian offensive had begun. The Egyptians, taking into account the sad experience of the defeats of 1948-1949, 1956, and especially 1967, decided to postpone how things would end in the north and how they lost. Moreover, the United States and Israel must have warned what would happen if the Egyptian offensive continued (the Israelis, there, already brought nuclear bombs to airfields), especially since Sadat had already curtailed military cooperation with the USSR. Well, then, as Moshe Dayan aptly put it: "Golda, we are we again, and they are again," the Syrians were defeated, which allowed Israel to transfer troops, and especially aviation, the Egyptians went on the offensive, were defeated, surrounded and Sadat humbly asked the Israelis allow the encircled troops to bring some water so that they do not die of thirst. Sadat had to go to peace with Israel in 1979 in Camp David to return the Sinai Peninsula. However, this did not save him from being shot during a military parade. in honor of the next anniversary of the crossing of the Suez Canal, which was declared a "Great Victory" in Egypt. History loves to joke. Yours faithfully! hi
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 24 July 2013 15: 44 New
        +2
        Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
        and why the Egyptians had to attack, they, according to the old Arab habit, were preparing to rake the heat with the wrong hands, especially since the Syrian offensive began. The Egyptians, taking into account the sad experience of the defeats of 1948-1949, 1956, and especially 1967, decided to postpone how the business would end in the north and how it should be lost.

        Nah ... The Egyptian attack on October 14 was just to ease the situation of the Syrians in the Golan. It was precisely in this war that Egypt could achieve serious success if decisive goals were set. But Sadat originally planned it as a small war to solve domestic political problems. That is, roughly speaking, the Egyptian army had the task of sitting on the banks of the Canal, chewing breadcrumbs and repelling the attacks of Jews until adult uncles (the USSR and the USA) gave them the territories lost in the Six Day War (and IMHO there were prerequisites for this , given the clearly pro-American orientation of Sadat and the relations with the USSR that have not yet completely deteriorated). But the disaster on the Syrian front made Sadat take risks and use the reserves for the October 14 offensive. Offensives against the enemy that has come to its senses, regrouped and tightened reserves. The failure of the offensive, the result of which was heavy losses in the tanks, and which became the prerequisite for the catastrophe that soon befell the Egyptian army.
      2. Rider
        Rider 24 July 2013 15: 51 New
        -3
        I advise you to read

        http://www.israelshamir.net/ru/ruart205.htm

        As it became known from the found memorandum, the rulers of Egypt, Israel and the United States entered into a conspiracy in 1973. They staged and conducted the “October War” - the Jews call it the “Doomsday War”, and the Arabs “the Ramadan War”. During its course, the sovereign ruler of Egypt Anuar al-Sadat betrayed the Arab cause, betrayed his military ally - Syria and doomed her army to destruction, gave the Palestinians to be eaten, betrayed friendship with the Soviet Union. The United States played Egypt, and then other countries in the region.
        1. Professor
          Professor 24 July 2013 20: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: Rider
          I advise you to read

          What is the basis of your recommendations for reading the work of a famous provocateur who did not become famous for this?
          1. Rider
            Rider 24 July 2013 22: 49 New
            -2
            Quote: Professor
            What is your


            and what are your accusations?

            and mine, based on a general analysis of the situation, and the political situation.
            in which this material fits very well.
            1. Professor
              Professor 24 July 2013 23: 01 New
              -2
              Quote: Rider
              and mine, based on a general analysis of the situation, and the political situation.
              in which this material fits very well.

              What analysis, where does it fit? Giving himself a career made a complete nonsense.
              1. Rider
                Rider 25 July 2013 17: 04 New
                -1
                Quote: Professor
                Giving himself a career made a complete nonsense.


                can you give more details ?

                or, as usual, "into the mud of all those who disagree with the policy of the party and government."
  11. ratuld
    ratuld 24 July 2013 14: 01 New
    -1
    I read the forum and was sad.
    No one has ever tried and does not try to kill Israel as a state except the Jews themselves.
    No one needs it.
    Everything that happens around Palestine and Israel is pure mystification and provocation.
    Even Iran, with all its cannibalistic rhetoric, spits deeply on all the fuss of Jews in its own country and did not plan to attack for a period.
    It's not about "how brave and tough" Jewish ladies and Jewish gentlemen suddenly became.
    There was nothing "cool" and never will be.
    Speech - what's next? The draft campaign closes as they write by 2025.
    Actually, no one in Tel Aviv has ever hidden this.
    In other words, the Arabs will be taken by other means.
    The theme - Allah - Akbar no longer prolazit.
    War does not solve anything.
    Syria - profiled.
    Iran will be a secular state.
    Will Kurdistan - not at all pro-American and not pro-Anglo-Saxon. Perhaps secular.
    Egypt is a problem - but no longer solved.
    WHAT TO DO THAT ???
    ABOUT JEWS IN THE USA ???
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 24 July 2013 19: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: ratuld

      WHAT TO DO THAT ???
      ABOUT JEWS IN THE USA ???

      Yes, turn out somehow. They adapt, get upset.
      They will survive and prosper.
      If they don’t get home.
      1. svp67
        svp67 24 July 2013 19: 52 New
        0
        Quote: dustycat
        Yes, turn out somehow.
        Moreover, they have many centuries of experience ...
    2. Professor
      Professor 24 July 2013 20: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: ratuld
      Actually, no one in Tel Aviv has ever hidden this.

      Share the link and laugh together. Weak? wink
    3. high
      high 27 July 2013 22: 01 New
      0
      As they say in Russia, bullshit ....
  12. xan
    xan 24 July 2013 16: 30 New
    0
    foreign advisers cannot do one but very important thing - to fix the mentality of the average military. although there are examples in history when, in WWI, German military advisers in the Turkish army were able to achieve impressive results - the Turks beat the British. But these same Turks, under the leadership of the same Germans, could not do anything against the Russians in the Caucasus, although purely Germans coped with the Russians due to the greater professionalism of the generals.
    My personal opinion is that the right mentality is more important than a professional general
    1. vyatom
      vyatom 24 July 2013 17: 01 New
      +2
      Quote: xan
      although purely Germans coped with the Russians at the expense of the more professional generalism.

      Are you confusing anything? This is where the Germans coped like that? In the 45th? or during World War I? For centuries we weighed the Germans to the fullest. And no general staff could help them.
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 24 July 2013 19: 06 New
        +1
        Quote: vyatom
        Are you confusing anything? This is where the Germans coped like that? In the 45th? or during World War I? For centuries we weighed the Germans to the fullest. And no general staff could help them.

        Just do not throw your hat and bang your heel on your chest! At the level of the battalion-regiment, the Russians were practically inferior to the Germans in nothing, but at the operational-tactical and higher levels they were inferior, and very much. For example - during the WWII RIA could not hold none successful operations against the Germans at the operational or strategic level. During WWII, the level of command and operational-tactical / strategic art of the Red Army equaled the German one only at the end of 1943 - the beginning of 1944, although some battalions, regiments and divisions even quite successfully fought with equal German forces in June 1941.
        So do not shout here about the centuries-old superiority of Russians over Germans - the Germans gave us many lessons of military art, and some of them were very painful and very bloody.
        1. ed65b
          ed65b 24 July 2013 20: 24 New
          +1
          I will tell you this Jew. They are Germans, Russians were taught to fight, and Russians, Germans were taught to fight, which you safely use and take off their indemnities.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 24 July 2013 21: 26 New
            0
            Quote: ed65b
            I will tell you this Jew. They are Germans, Russians were taught to fight, and Russians, Germans were taught to fight, which you safely use and take off their indemnities.

            Do not consider it criticism, but it would be nice to insert a quote in the post to which you are responding.
    2. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 24 July 2013 18: 50 New
      0
      Quote: xan
      My personal opinion is that the right mentality is more important than a professional general

      Let's just say that - no more, they are both important. I don’t remember where I was reading, but during the Crimean War, in one of the battles, the French managed to overturn several Russian regiments and the zouaves (essentially the same French, but dressed in Moroccan or Algerian uniforms) were sent to attack, but as soon as the Russians saw red fez in the ranks of the attacking French, they turned and hit with hostility, scattering the zuavs. It is strange at first glance - why did the already running Russians suddenly show such an impulse? It turned out to be simple - the whole thing is in psychology. The Russians mistook the Zouaves for the Turks, and it was so shameful for them to flee from the Turks, and the memory of the brilliant victories over the Turks was still fresh that they simply did not see any other option - just attack and only win.
      1. xan
        xan 25 July 2013 12: 23 New
        0
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        Let's just say that - no more, they are both important.

        I mean, if the peasants in the state are exiled, then even an advanced general will not create troops from them. And traveling generals can be found even in the most not bad army.
        And I also read about the case of the zouaves. Among the French, zouaves were considered the most combat-ready. The first battle with the Russians for them ended in failure. But the victorious Russians, too, finally realized that no Zouaves were Turks.
  13. ed65b
    ed65b 24 July 2013 16: 45 New
    -1
    the most interesting thing is that the Arabs lost and the Russians remained to blame with their useless weapons. And now, for how many years, Jews have simply mocked this. So wish them after this good.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 24 July 2013 23: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: ed65b
      the most interesting thing is that the Arabs lost and the Russians remained to blame with their useless weapons. And now, for how many years, Jews have simply mocked this. So wish them after this good.

      If they were sneering, they would not have used captured "useless", as you called them, tanks. And the AK-47 would not be copied (and what is Galil if not AK?). Why not mock the Arabs? They deserve it.
      Quote: Abba Eban, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Israel 1966–1974
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban
      "Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 25 July 2013 00: 01 New
        +1
        Quote: Nagan
        If they were sneering, they would not have used captured "useless", as you called them, tanks. And the AK-47 would not be copied (and what is Galil if not AK?). Why not mock the Arabs? They deserve it.

        Arabs are not mocked. Their assessment was rather strict, and fighting qualities were noted.

        T tanks served mainly in reserve - and for a very limited time. They did not fit into the Israeli tank concept.
  14. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 24 July 2013 17: 24 New
    +2
    And yet - where about the tank battle then?
    1. igor67
      igor67 24 July 2013 18: 10 New
      +3
      Quote: Trapper7
      And yet - where about the tank battle then?

      for you
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 24 July 2013 19: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: igor67
        for you

        Nice fantastic cartoon with elements of a feature film.
        1. igor67
          igor67 24 July 2013 19: 11 New
          +3
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Quote: igor67
          for you

          Nice fantastic cartoon with elements of a feature film.

          how the information in this cartoon differs from the article and real events
          ? above in the comments I posted documentary footage, the results of the battle in the Golan Heights are clearly visible there, look, there is not a cartoon
      2. svp67
        svp67 24 July 2013 20: 18 New
        -3
        Quote: igor67
        for you

        to believe in American "agitation" is not to respect oneself ...
        1. igor67
          igor67 24 July 2013 20: 53 New
          +3
          Quote: svp67
          Quote: igor67
          for you

          to believe in American "agitation" is not to respect oneself ...

          Above the branch, you yourself saw what happened, you yourself commented like the tanks were ambushed and immediately there was agitation. You already decide on the cartoon staging and shooting 72 years too? Dragged hundreds of tanks to the mountains for shooting
          1. svp67
            svp67 24 July 2013 21: 19 New
            -1
            Quote: igor67
            Have you already decided on the cartoon production and shooting of 72 of the year too? Dragged hundreds of tanks to the mountains for shooting

            Our advisers claimed that the main damage to the advancing Arab tank units was caused by aviation, which was rejected in every way by the Israeli side, which tells about the unprecedented accuracy of its tankers - with every shot, which destroyed the enemy’s tank at the maximum range. Everyone believes in their truth, but I believe that without the huge help of aviation it could not do here. And the film also does not say who and what knocked out these tanks, in the mind there is a very good place to strike with helicopters ...
          2. Gladiatir-zlo
            Gladiatir-zlo 24 July 2013 23: 11 New
            -1
            It didn't hurt, the Jews lived and lived, they atoned for their sins. And then the evil Arabs would throw themselves in a horde, and their herak and from an ambush were knocked down in droves. Yes, they felled wonderfully, then they did not expect an attack, then they prepared an ambush, and put down the BC, cut the sectors, set up fire interaction, it seems painful for noble Jews to fight. Even their covenants to honor, they are not such achievements on the shoulder. I wonder how many shots the Jewish "WHIP" will have time to fire if it starts firing from the maximum possible distance, until the Soviet T-55s reach it, and what will come to an end sooner, the tank destroyer or the attacking tanks. And finally, where is the prepared air cover, I suppose the attack planes made a rustle in the heights. So the planes got it. This is such an unpreparedness for war. miracles, or are they holding us?
        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 24 July 2013 21: 27 New
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          Quote: igor67
          for you

          to believe in American "agitation" is not to respect oneself ...

          http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/golan_battle.htm
          I recommend. Very nice article. In general, the losses at 7 and 188 t / br were the hardest. 36 hours after the outbreak of war, they lost dead and wounded to 3 / 4 crews. In the 188 brigade, the chief of intelligence remained the chief officer. But they did their work. The Syrians were restrained until the approach of the reservists.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 25 July 2013 00: 19 New
            0
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            The Syrians were restrained until the approach of the reservists.

            Already something, but you can’t refuse Jews professionalism and courage, that in the Sinai, that in the Golan they fought to the last!
            One trouble - boasting cleaner than Russian ...
      3. Gladiatir-zlo
        Gladiatir-zlo 24 July 2013 22: 57 New
        0
        That's very interesting, if Israel has everything so clearly calculated, then there probably are data on the cost of ammunition, as well as the statistics of shots, as well as hits. And the tale that the Jews were unprepared, then they are preparing an attack in plain sight, but it (the attack) still came out (sudden).
  15. RoTTor
    RoTTor 24 July 2013 18: 02 New
    +2
    [b] Glory to the heroic defenders of their homeland - the Israeli tankers, worthy of the successors of the traditions of the Soviet heroes of the tankers of Dragunsky, the Vainrub brothers and many others !!! [/ b]
  16. bublic82009
    bublic82009 24 July 2013 20: 32 New
    +2
    this story says that skillful troops win and not the amount of equipment
  17. honest jew
    honest jew 24 July 2013 20: 57 New
    +5
    Quote: Kuzkin Batyan
    They’ll send you right away. Since the Israelis hate the Russians.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4GVKymQu8Q
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 24 July 2013 21: 26 New
      +1
      honest jew (3)  Today, 20:57
      Definitely +. Very worthy answer
  18. faraon
    faraon 24 July 2013 21: 11 New
    0
    Quote: RPG_
    Well then, list here all the dead (first name last name is not necessary), and we will calculate together with you. It only seems easy, in fact, it’s impossible to correctly calculate all of them and it’s also possible to hide losses.

    On the memorial day of those killed in all Israeli wars, the central television shows photos and the names of the dead. You can verify this yourself by going to any Israeli Russian-language site on that day or just in the site’s archive
    1. воронов
      воронов 24 July 2013 22: 42 New
      0
      I don’t advise to go there everything is written in Hebrew
  19. faraon
    faraon 24 July 2013 21: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: tilovaykrisa
    Everything went and everything changed, at the moment it is a fully trained army capable of conducting military operations with any enemy in the region if it is re-equipped with more or less modern air defense and air forces.

    Times are changing, technology is changing, but attitude is not changing, earlier in comments only those who went through the Soviet military school were more understanding and prepared for service.
    Are you so sure that everything has changed? Me not.
  20. nnz226
    nnz226 24 July 2013 23: 11 New
    +1
    Chocks, they are - CHOCK !!! So it’s good to start and fuck it all up ?! Only stupid people, standing in cancer in a conversion to God, could give a damn about that. And MORE ABOUT THE WORLD CALIPHATE DREAM - CLOWNS !!!
  21. faraon
    faraon 24 July 2013 23: 23 New
    +2
    Yes, what can we say? A country with a wart on the w .... f, lives, fights, wins, grows flowers, fruits, vegetables on salt flats, produces, contains one of the combat-ready armies in the Middle East, conducts a defensive policy. Participates in the development space projects. It treats the experience of conducting complex surgical operations. But again.
    This is how I remember Sholokhov's novel "Virgin Lands Raised" and let's ... dispose of his roof covered with iron.
  22. Zhenya-1
    Zhenya-1 24 July 2013 23: 52 New
    -5
    Israel will exist as long as America cares for it. Artificial education, a temporary outpost of the West in the Middle East.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 25 July 2013 00: 02 New
      0
      America began to show at least some interest in Israel in 1969
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 25 July 2013 02: 32 New
        0
        Well, shitcrats are usually not very pro-Israel. At one time, Carter literally twisted Begin's arms and made him give up the entire Sinai. Clinton, again not without twisting his arms, pushed the "Oslo agreement" completely unfavorable to Israel. And about B. Hussein Obama, the Republicans say, and not without reason, that he "shoved Israel under the bus."
        Well, the truth is at times and Republicans are themselves good. So, James Baker, the Bush-dad's secretary of state, thinking that the microphones were muted, said literally the following: "Fuck them, they didn't vote for us." (if you are interested in translation, translate it yourself, but I warn you - it will turn out to be very indecent and violates the rules of this forum)
        And nothing, Israel still exists, although the Arabs from 1948 to the present day are trying, at times very actively, to throw the Jews into the sea.
  23. infidel2104
    infidel2104 25 July 2013 03: 21 New
    +1
    I believe that Israel piled on to the Arabs, for the Arabs are stupid hopelessly
  24. honest jew
    honest jew 25 July 2013 11: 17 New
    +1
    Quote: Kuzkin Batyan
    They’ll send you right away. Since the Israelis hate the Russians



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4GVKymQu8Q
  25. pinecone
    pinecone 25 July 2013 19: 08 New
    0
    Cairo Museum Panorama Dedicated to the 1973 War Fragment.
    Link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_of_October_Panorama
  26. Anthonydisy
    Anthonydisy April 18 2014 08: 05 New
    0
    Adored the pictures, i really like the among% image_title%, perfect.

    my website - http://onlinesmpt200.com