Military Review

True Rus. Who is behind whom?

119
The darkness and backwardness of Muscovite Russia is nothing more than a Western myth, aggravated by our own domestic liberal historians. In fact, in the XVII century, Russian culture reached a truly fabulous flourishing. And it developed on its own, national basis! No, the Russians did not shy away from foreign achievements, adopted useful things. But it is useful, and not chasing foreign fashions. This was not necessary. After all, in our country, life was stormy, bright. And in terms of science, art, and culture, our country was in no way inferior to other modern powers.


Ivan the Terrible began to create schools in Muscovy Russia, in the 1550 of the city, the hundred-head council pointed out the need for “literacy to learn.” These schools operated at temples, monasteries and provided general education, sufficient for their era. And the rest of the knowledge a person had to pick himself, in communication with "knowledgeable people" and "extensive reading." That is, each continued education individually, depending on the chosen profession.

And in the XVII century. schools began to be created for deeper education. Conventionally, they can be considered "higher." Under Mikhail Fedorovich - for the training of clergymen, and under Alexey Mikhailovich and for secular officials. These were schools at the Miracle, Zaikonospassky monasteries (here students were given scholarships - 10 rubles per year!), Gymnasium at the Church of St. John the Theologian in China-town, a school at the Church of St. John the Theologian in Bronnaya Sloboda, a school at the Printing House. Finally, under Fyodor Alekseevich, the famous Slavic-Greek-Latin Academy was created.

5 printing houses operated in our country. The Moscow Printing House was a very large enterprise for that epoch, 8 machines operated here. According to the general circulation of published literature, Russia ranked first in Europe! But the demand for it was so high that it was not enough. Private printing houses of Belarus and Lithuania specialized in printing Russian books and supplying them to Russia. There was a fair amount of handwritten literature, and book creativity was generously complemented by oral folklore — tales, fables, epics. It has now been recognized that in terms of quality they were in no way inferior to the best samples of foreign literature, they were true masterpieces.

Books in Russia are very appreciated. Large libraries gathered in monasteries, in orders, at schools, at the printing houses of the Greek language, with the king, his children, in the homes of nobles and merchants. But the libraries in 3 — 5 books were even in the homes of some wealthy peasants! And foreigners describe a book mile-long series in Moscow, selling only books.

A significant proportion of the books was Orthodox literature, various editions of the Bible, the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, the Psalter, and the lives of the saints. Developed textbooks, "alphabet" - manuals for teachers. Guldenstern in 1602 mentions a Russian primer. And in 1634, the Moscow Printing House published a textbook by Vasily Burtsev: "Primer of the Slavonic language, that is, the beginning of teaching to children."

In 1648, the Grammar published by Melentiy Smotrytsky, published in Lithuania, systematized the book Slavic language and taught not only the “good of verb and writer”, but also “by meter or measure of the number of verses of slugat”. (By the way, it was one of two books that Lomonosov later called the “gate of his scholarship). Innocent Giesel's book “Synopsis or a short collection from various chroniclers about the beginning of the Slavic-Russian people”, the first Russian textbook, was published in Kiev in 1674. stories (it was considered the best until the middle of the XIX century and sustained 30 editions).

Among the translations of publications that circulated in Russia were virtually all ancient classics, artistic chivalry novels, the best works on medicine, history, and geography. But there were talented authors in Russia. St. Dmitry of Rostov compiled and published the “Chetyi-Mei”, left wise and instructive notes. Andrey Lyzlov created the “Scythian history”, Karion Istomin - “Small primer”, “Big primer”. Moldovan emigrant Nikolai Spafariy-Milescu became the author of a number of scientific works, and Simeon Polotsky became the ancestor of Russian book poetry.

Our country had its own traditional medicine. The Italian ambassador, Foscarino, wrote: "Doctors treat by experience and tried herbs." There was a medical literature - “Herbalists”, “Zeleniki”, “Healers”. There was an Apothecary order, something like a “Ministry of Health”. In Moscow, there was a Potion Series, which traded in medicinal herbs and other medical drugs. There, in the Zeleynyy Ryad, one could hire “leztsi”, “zuboder”, “ophthalmic”, “chiropractor”, “krovopusk” and even “woman’s affairs of the master”. Pharmaceutical order allocated drugs and medical personnel for the army, there are detailed paintings on this subject - how many “lechtsov”, surgeons, chiropractors. Under the tsarina, the Russian “dokhturitsa” is mentioned (and the “dokhtur” was higher than the “lechtsa”, usually the “dokhturami” were foreigners). Medical experts were among the monks of almost every monastery.

Since ancient times in Russia existed and mathematics. Moreover, its own, subsequently displaced by the European. Not only the decimal system was used - they were considered to be more nines and magpies. I will not argue how convenient it is, but not at all primitive. Try to count in several systems and easily switch from one to another! (And everyone was able to count - what kind of trade without an account?) In the textbooks of the 16th century that have come down to us. The terms are called “lists”, the sum is “bottom list”, the difference is “residuals”, decreasing is “borrowed list”, deductible “pay list”, the dividend is “big list”, private - “foal list”, the remainder is “ residual fractions ”.
There were manuals on geometry “with the application of surveyors”, which provides information on the calculation of the areas of different shapes. The calculations of the areas are also contained in the composition of Yermolai Erazm “The Ruler of Agriculture and Farming” by the gracious king. And theoretical mathematics operated with numbers up to ... 10 in 48 degrees! And also had its own terminology. “Darkness” in mathematics meant a thousand thousand — that is, million million million - “legion”, legion of the legions - “leodr”, and leodr leodrov - “raven”. The unit of the 49 th digit. By the way, Old Russian mathematics in general often operated not with linear, but with power dependencies - one thousand thousand, forty forty.

There were highly educated specialists - “arithmometers”, cartographers. Of course, without foundational knowledge in the most diverse areas, such foundry workers as Andrei Chokhov, who created the Tsar Cannon, the huge Reut bell, etc., could not work. At this point, natural talent and ingenuity were clearly not enough. As for the architects who solved the most complex engineering problems. Fulvio Ruggieri, who admired the construction of our fortresses, respectfully referred to the Russian city planners as “engineers”. They knew how to make clever mechanisms. They are mentioned among the gifts of the False Dmitry to their bride. And under Mikhail Fedorovich, a clock was set on the Spasskaya Tower, which called up a “musical scale” on the bells.

There were enthusiastic scientists. The archive of the hegumen of the Solovki monastery Fedor Kolychev contains descriptions of many inventions that were introduced under his leadership. This and the giant hydraulic structures of the monastery with cunning pipelines, when the water from the 52 lakes was fed to the mills, set in motion the forges and hammers. As well as a mechanical dryer, a fan, and a device for warming up clay in the manufacture of bricks, and even original devices that accelerate and facilitate the manufacture of kvass. Boyarin Matveyev studied algebra and made chemical experiments.

Travelers and merchants recorded their “walkings”, stories about the countries of Central Asia and the Caucasus. Fundamental geographical works were also created: “A large drawing of the Russian land” with descriptions of roads, rivers, etc., “Drawing of the Siberian lands” of Stolnik Peter Godunov. The outstanding scholar was Archbishop Kholmogorsky and Vazhsky Athanasius Lyubimov. Without leaving spiritual works, he was engaged in medicine, geography, astronomy. He built a telescope and watched the celestial bodies through the "optical round glass in the tree." Made maps of Ukraine and Pomerania, "Description of the three ways from the Pomeranian countries to the Swedish land," developed a project for the development of New Earth.

If we touch on art, then it should be noted that foreign guests who visited Russia were well acquainted with the achievements of the European Renaissance. Nevertheless, they admired Russian icons. They were highly appreciated by the papal legate Possevino, and the Czech Tanner, and the Dutch artist de Bruin. But if European art followed the path of blindly copying nature, then iconography is a very special, much more complex genre. This is not a picture, it is a symbol that helps a person to concentrate, detach himself from the earthly and rush his soul towards the Lord. Icon painters created by inspiration from above. In order to gain it, they especially fasted and prayed.

Technique could change, develop, enrich with new finds, but without the violent fantasies and vacillations inherent in European artists. So, in the XVII century. complex multi-figured compositions began to be created: “Symbol of Faith”, “Not Peace, but Sword”, etc. There were icons of “Frâzhskogo Letters” - the general canon of the image was preserved, but combined with the “living” of faces and figures. And Palekh masters brought bright folk motives to the canon. The demand for icons was very high. In Moscow, there was an Icon Series, "occupied by painters who sell only images." There were several major centers of icon painting - in Yaroslavl, Novgorod, Pskov, Palekh, Salt-Vychegodskaya, Iconic settlement of the Trinity-Sergius Monastery, Antonievo-Siya Monastery. There were also schools where novice icon painters studied, for which there were special aids.

And in Moscow at Armory in 1660, the school organized a "school of royal salted and fodder isographs." Those who were on a permanent salary were called salaries, feed received “feed” (payment) piece by piece. The workshop was headed by the best artist of the time Simon Ushakov. He created such masterpieces as murals of the Faceted Chamber of the Kremlin, the painting “The Tree of the Moscow State”, the Iveron Icon of the Most Holy Theotokos in Nizhny Novgorod, the “Holy Trinity” - in composition it is close to the icon of Andrei Rublev, and yet completely different. Nicola Pavlovets, Joseph Vladimirov, Semyon Spiridonov were also famous for their skills.

But secular painting was also developed in Russia. Only one Western genre was not practiced - nude images. Everything else was. Ceremonial portraits were painted from the 16th century. Portraits of kings, Ordin-Nashchokin, Matveyev, Golitsyn, Natalia Naryshkina, and others, made by Russian masters, have been preserved. The technique of writing them in no way inferior to the European. Foreigners mentioned that another number was located next to Icon in Moscow, where "there are painters of flowers, fruits, and species." Very popular were popular prints. Europeans called them "prints". The image was engraved on a board, and prints were made from it on paper. The popular popular prints, like Nikon's portrait, represent not a “cheap”, but quite mature level of creativity.

It was not customary to sculpt large statues in Russia, but Russian craftsmen could argue with the best sculptors of any country in making small statuettes and figurines made of bone or wood. Preserved carved folding Nikon. On it the masters superbly carved a whole miniature iconostasis! Domestic jewelers have also achieved the highest art. Various techniques were used - casting, chasing, granulation, filigree, niello, various types of enamels, enamel, filigree, carving, engraving. Until now, in museums you can see cups, dishes, ladles, censer, chalices, women's decorations covered with the finest patterns, delightful in their performance. No less high was the art of embroidery — the craftswomen (both commoners and nobles) created wonderful swaddles, air, banners, vestments of clergymen, and embroidered icons.

And if now tourists from all over the world are going to see the miracle of architecture, wooden temples in Kizhi, then the 17th century. All of Russia was decorated with such miracles! They were ordinary, stood to every village, every city. The apotheosis of wooden architecture was the construction of Alexei Mikhailovich in the Kolomna Palace. It was erected from 1667 to 1671, the work was carried out by carpenter foreman Semyon Petrov and archer Ivan Mikhailov, the team of carpenters and carvers was headed by Starets Arseny, it included Klim Mikhailov, Davyd Pavlov, Andrey Ivanov, Gerasim Okulov, Fyodor Mikulaev. The Bogdan Saltanov Armenian was engaged in gilding, and the paintings were made by the masters of the Armory Chamber, headed by Ushakov.

The palace consisted of seven "Horomin". They were built in 3 — 4 floors, connected with each other by passages and staircases, and full will was given to the masters' fantasies. The buildings were decorated with intricate carvings, arches, porches, openwork railings, not a single roof repeated the other, and the palace was crowned with bizarre heaps of onions, hipped roofs, turrets. The patterned carving covers the door, trim 3 thousand windows. 270 rooms delighted the eye with carved benches and benches, the walls were painted with ornaments and paintings. Foreigners wrote that the palace "seems to be all taken out of the casket thanks to a wonderfully skillfully executed decoration," called it "an architectural diva," "the eighth wonder of the world."
But the stone Russian architecture was not inferior to wood. In the XVII century. stone temples have become common even in the countryside. Impregnable fortresses, magnificent administrative buildings, boyar and merchant houses were built. They were also generously decorated with stone carvings, decorative columns and pilasters, borders made of colored tiles.

Russian since ancient times loved music. Among the musicians there were real virtuosos - tones, housekeepers, dulcimer, angels, guslars. From time immemorial, church singing was perfected. It was high art. In Russia, it was decided to make permanent "stanitsy", choral ensembles of 5 choristers. The king had 5 villages, the patriarch 7. Each village could sing separately, and on holidays they united into large choirs. To record music, hook (note) recordings were used, there were several types of them - banner, track, demestvennaya. There were special "ABCs" for their reading and training of singers. There were composers who composed church music. The manuscripts and scores that have come down to us show that the melodies were exceptionally beautiful and melodic.

In folk art there was a theater. Buffoons played funny scenes, puppet shows with the famous Petrushka, in cities and villages people organized “amateur” performances on Maslenitsa, “carols” before Christmas, in December in the temples they organized mysteries of “cave action”. And during the reign of Alexei Mikhailovich, the first professional theater in Russia was created at the court.

Is our ancestors even in some areas behind the western countries? It turns out - no! We admiringly read about European navigators, about great discoveries, travels. But it remains behind the scenes that the Russian Pomors paved the way to England for half a century before the British reached Russia. The sea was named after the deceased Goddand explorer Barents. But it was left behind the scenes that he "discovered" the edges, long ago mastered by the Russians. He died at the "discovery" of the New Earth, where the Pomorians went regularly, not considering it to be something special and heroic. They saved the remnants of the Barents expedition, which crashed and died on Novaya Zemlya. By the way, academician V.N. Scalon discovered that, as a map of the northern seas, compiled by Barents, was completely wrong. But the Russian explorers of the XVII century. knew how to make maps even more accurately than graduated geographers of the nineteenth century.

True Rus. Who is behind whom?

Are they inferior to the western discoverers of the voyage of Semyon Dezhnev, Poyarkov, Erastov, Erilo, Bugr, the journeys of Khabarov, Stadukhin, Galkin, Beketov, Zyryan, Moskvitin, Shelkovnikov, Gavrilov and other pioneers. Through the efforts of these brave and motivated people for half a century, the territory of Russia has almost doubled! Our country has grown huge spaces of Siberia and the Far East. It grew under the rule of the first Romanovs, and the wise policies of the kings contributed to this. Decrees of Moscow demanded the establishment of friendship with the locals. Not conquest, and establish mutually beneficial relationship.

The orders and instructions of the sovereigns to the governors repeatedly repeated one and the same thing: “To bring foreigners under the high sovereign's hand” and collect yasak with “caress, not cruelty”. “To caress and greet and care for them, but in vain cruelties and no taxes they have nothing to repair with some affairs, so that they should not be hardened in vain and not be driven away from the sovereign mercy”. It was forbidden to use the death penalty for yasak people - even in the case of uprisings! And Russian Cossacks, hunters, and peasants who reached out to Siberia for their handicrafts, were strictly forbidden "lands of the yasak-like imatis." It was allowed to settle only in the "outskirts of places". For harassment and attempts to take away someone else’s land, they whipped him. So the story of buying Manhattan for 24 thaler in Russia would not have passed.

Foreigners in the XVII century. They were amazed how “a handful of people seized such a huge space.” They gave the correct answer: the cause of success was not at all "conquest by military force, but according to the natives' conviction." And already in 1901, US Senator Baveridge, who visited the Far East, noted: “Russian differs from other nations in that it does not show any offensive way of dealing with races that it gets along perfectly well”.

The result is known: in the times of Yermak, the indigenous peoples of Siberia numbered about 200 thousand people. Over the 200 years, their number has increased 4 times - this is not counting the mixed population, since the Russians very often created families with Tatars, Yakuts, Buryats. And in North America at the end of the XVI - the beginning of the XVII century. there were 2 million Indians - in the twentieth century. 200 thousand left, mainly in Canada.

For some reason, a legend was introduced that Russia lagged behind the west militarily. This is complete nonsense. Western armies in the XVI - XVII century. represented a rather pitiful sight. Knightly cavalry outdated its age, the nobility was undisciplined, constantly changed. Troops were made up of mercenaries. This worked the German and Italian princes, "condottierri." Formed shelves from any rabble, sold to the one who pays.

The obedience of such soldiers was supported with sticks and gallows, but they were also allowed to do anything. The mercenaries burned, raped and slaughtered everyone, behind the troops were the ruins of cities with piles of corpses. The soldiers did not have a homeland, they plundered and exterminated everywhere. The assembled army quickly pushed into the territory of the enemy, let it be grazed there. There was no form in sight, the army looked like a bunch of ragged, behind it dragged a huge train of dealers of the loot, Tickers, prostitutes.

Elite units were small. In France, the Musketeers' 2 Company and the 2 Guard Regiment (King’s personal guard). More advanced, professional army, created in the XVII century. in Holland Moritz of Orange, then the Swedes took over. Therefore, they defeated all their opponents. In England, Cromwell took over their achievements, formed the “Army of the new sample” of 22 thousand people.

But in Russia the professional army began to be created a hundred years earlier. In the 1550-ies, Ivan the Terrible began to form regiments of regular infantry, archers. They already had a single form: colorful caftans, hats, uniform armament with flames, bears, swords.

Although foreign achievements are not neglected, tracked. Why not adopt, if really useful? In 1606, clerks M. Yuriev and I. Fomin transferred L. Fronsperger's German “Military Book”. In 1621, clerk O. Mikhailov compiled the “Charter of military, cannon and other matters relating to military science,” which summarized the advanced experience of European states, valuable information on fortification, ballistics, artillery. In 1647 in Moscow, it was published in a huge for that time edition of 1200 copies. the book “The Doctrine and Cunning of the Military System of the Infantry People” is a complete translation of the textbook of I. Wolgauzen “The Military Art of the Infantry”. In 1650, they transferred from the Dutch statutes for teaching to the reiter system.

The creation of troops on the Western model is usually attributed to Peter I. But much was attributed to him from what was done long before him. By the way, an example is a shipyard in Voronezh, supposedly founded by Peter. But in fact, Mikhail Fedorovich and his father Patriarch Filaret in 1620-s - barges and planes for Don Cossacks were built on this shipyard.

Similarly, the troops of the “new” or “foreign” system began to be formed not by Peter I, but by his grandfather Michael and great-grandfather Philaret. The decree on the establishment of the first two regiments was issued in April 1627. The Swedish army was taken as a sample, foreign commanders were hired. Each regiment consisted of 8 companies, 200 soldiers, 120 musketeers and 80 pikemen. From 1632, Reiter regiments are also being created - from 2, thousands of horsemen, protected by cuirass, armed with a carbine, 2 pistols and a sword. Then came the dragoons, light cavalry with carbines.

Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich established the first officer school for the training of command personnel. A Swedish resident in Moscow, de Rodes, reported to Stockholm about two training regiments of a thousand people, “for the most part all of the noble nobles” that Colonel Buchgofen prepared for command service - “he now taught them so much that there are few among them would not have been able to replace the colonel ”.

And the number of regiments of the "new system" gradually grew. In the 1660-ies in the Russian army there were already 22 Strelets regiment, 48 soldiers, 8 dragoons, 22 reytar, 1 hussars. Two "elected" guards regiments, Kravkov and Shepelev (and later they will become Butyrsky and Lefortovsky) also appeared. All units had uniform weapons, uniform. The shelves of the "new order" were reckoned to be caftans shorter than Streltsy, to the knee. And the hats were similar to Streletsky, but without a fur rim. The form of different regiments and types of troops differed in the color of collars, hats and boots, and military ranks were determined by the color of the chest lacing on the caftan.

The hierarchy of officer ranks was already very developed. Some ranks were taken over from foreign armies, some were their own, Russian. In our army there were colonels, half-colonels, captains, captain, majors, lieutenants, ensigns. There were already Russian major generals, lieutenant generals. And in 1669, the Boyar Duma adopted three flag colors: white, blue and red. Again, contrary to the legends that tricolor was invented by Peter, turning the Dutch flag upside down. No, tricolor introduced Alexey Mikhailovich. And these three colors were chosen due to the fact that they dominate on the icon of St. George the Victorious. Although the order of their alternation remained arbitrary, and on the banners of different regiments the colors were used in various combinations, from different angles.

But the Russian army was not only perfectly organized and well-dressed. She was well armed. The products of our gunsmiths are rightfully famous in different countries. Russian armor was much lighter and more convenient for European lats - chain mail from 50 thousand rings weighed only 6-10 kg. There were also excellent quality sabers — a good one was considered such that it was possible to cut a gas kerchief on the fly. For their manufacture used a special steel- "way", apparently, akin to the eastern damask.

Domestic artillery under Ivan the Terrible reached the highest perfection, researchers consider it the best in the world. The Tsar Cannon, cast by Andrei Chokhov in 1605, did not exist in the singular. There were four such giants - on each side of Red Square there were two guns. True, they have never been used - it is long and difficult to charge, the cores must be lifted using special devices. Rather, they played the role of psychological weapons. Let’s say, for example, the ambassadors of the Crimean Khan, admire them - and think about it, is it worth it to climb to Moscow? But made and operating huge guns. The siege “Unicorn” weighed 450 pounds (more than 7 tons), and its core - 1 pounds 30 hryvnias. Cannons “Stepson”, “Wolf” (each in 350 pounds) also shot pood nuclei, a little smaller were “Krechet”, “Achilles”, “Faceted”, “Peacock”, “Basilisk”, “Boar” and others.

Venetian Tjapolo reported that "in Moscow make rifles in large quantities." Pole Nemoevsky also noted "good food and muskets." In the era of Ivan the Terrible, Russians began to export firearms. Large batches of guns and shotguns were bought by Persia. In 1630's, more advanced, lightweight muskets appeared and entered Sweden. They could shoot without a stand, they were charged with a paper cartridge, which increased the rate of fire.

At first, Russia bought such new items, but in 1640, the Russians learned how to make them, launched into mass production. Before the war with the Poles, the Barrel Order reported to the king that 31.464 muskets, 5.317 carbines, 4.279 pistol pairs were sent to the troops, and the order still had 10 thousand guns and 13 thousand guns to them. All this is domestic production! And the guns were produced so much that they were sold abroad, Russia exported guns to 800 a year. By the way, you can compare with France. During these years, there were not only factories, but not even gun workshops. All weapons from cannons and guns to noble swords were purchased in Belgium, Holland, Germany. Or in Russia - through the Dutch.

Domestic weapons continued to improve. In 1659, the ambassadors of Allied Denmark visited Moscow. Through their compatriot, colonel of the Russian service of Bauman, they managed to get to the Cannon Yard, described some of the developments that were carried out there. In particular, the model of a giant mortar, whose weight was supposed to reach 8.750 pounds (140 t), weight of grenades - 14.050 pounds (5,6 t), for charge required 2.000 pounds of gunpowder (800 kg), and for ignition of grenades and charge - 200 pounds ( 80 kg). And gunpowder in the chamber was poured from the breech, which was closed with screws. In general, the main thing for the siege of cities is to somehow bring such a monster into place. And then one bomb threw - and that's enough.

It is unlikely that the super-mortar was made in reality, only the model that “reached the chin” is described. But the Danes have described and the samples put into production are light field guns on the carriages, they were carried by a 1 horse, and the calculation consisted of a 2 man. And they were charged “from behind,” from the breech! In the west, these have not been. At this time, "screw" (rifled) and "organ" (multi-barreled) guns appeared on the armament of the Russian army. With 1667, the release of hand grenades began, in Moscow the Grenade Yard was built. There were grenades in metal shirts, there were “pitted ones” - in glass ones, they were worn on a belt in special bags. Foreigners noted their excellent quality.

Yes, our army was so “backward”. And about how she fought, show the results. After all, only in the history books the story about the reunification of Russia with Ukraine ends with the Pereyaslav Rada. In fact, for this reunion, 27 had to fight for years with a coalition of the strongest powers of that time. Poland argued with Russia for centuries about domination in Eastern Europe. In Troubles, it even seemed that she won. But under Alexey Mikhailovich, Poland was smashed to such an extent that it generally dropped out of the number of great powers. Her fate began to dispose of others. Russia has become the undisputed leader in Eastern Europe.

In the picture: 1. The starting man of Ivan Poltev's 2-order of Moscow archers. 1672. 2. Soldier of the regiment of the “foreign system”. The second half of the XVII century. 3.Moskovsky Pushkar with "alam". The second half of the XVII century. 4.Kopeyshchik regiments "foreign system." The second half of the XVII century. 5. Sokolnik Bolshoi Gosudarev Regiment. The second half of the XVII century. 6. Strelets with the hundredth banner of the 12 order of Ivan Naramansky Moscow archers. 1674, 7. The arrow of 5's order of Fyodor Aleksandrov of Moscow archers. 1674 (A.A. Kersnovsky. History of the Russian Army)Sweden intervened in the war, its army at that time was considered the best. But she received so well that little did not seem, chose to make peace. And only a coincidence of circumstances allowed her to leave the game "draw." The Ottoman Empire also intervened, the Turks were generally called "shakers of the universe", they exhibited countless hordes, smashed all opponents. But the Russians near Chigirin buried two Turkish armies, and completely repulsed the hunt to climb north.

In addition, Russia gradually, with the construction of the borderline, moved into the Wild Field. She mastered fertile black soil of the steppe. And on the way of the raids of the Crimean Tatars rose fortress, fortification systems, border guards. At the same time, our country reflected the attempts of Persia to seize the North Caucasus. And in Transbaikalia and on the Amur she won the war with China. Several offensives of Chinese troops were hurt by Albazin and Nerchinsk ... What country, what army in the XVII century. could boast such victories?

Alas, in subsequent times, much has been overwritten and forgotten. Successes and achievements dimmed, obscured by some less significant, but more recent events. Foreign professors who came to Russia in the eighteenth century were pretty messed up in history. Elevated their own states, belittling our progress from the Russians reduced to borrowing from abroad. And from the richest cultural heritage of Moscow Russia, only a tiny part has reached us. "Enlightened" descendants, fascinated by foreign samples, rejected the achievements of their ancestors. Folk art began to be considered "low" and "mean." Ancient masterpieces of architecture were destroyed, rebuilt. Old books were lost, and even burned, as unnecessary trash. Priceless icons were concealed in attempts to depict something more “artistic” in a European way.

By the way, the first exhibition of ancient Russian icons was organized only in 1913! And the first to give them the highest assessment is not even Russian, but the French artist Henri Matisse! He was amazed at what he saw, he wrote: “This is for sure folk art ... Here is the primary source of artistic research ... The Russians do not suspect what artistic riches they own!” And only after Matisse did our intelligentsia catch up, began to look differently at their own national wealth ... And for the loss of the past is the destruction of the foundation on which our present lies with you. And the future too. The history of the twentieth and twenty-first century. showed it quite eloquently.
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  2. Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 09: 34 New
    31
    The myths denigrating Russia cannot be counted.

    What can I say, take for example the last time when publicly available information is sea.

    This is the "Empire of Evil", and bears on the streets of Moscow, and millions of raped Germans, and the Stalinist terror against the people, and the most expensive gasoline in the world, and the Russian attack on Georgia, and the preparation of the Soviet attack on Germany ... These (and other myths) are intensely created and planted despite the fact that in our century it is quite easy to find out how things really are. There is enough truthful information, it is not necessary to search for it for a long time. It's just that the truth is not voiced, it is hushed up by the mainstream media, in schools, at universities ...

    Victory on the information front is no less (or perhaps more) important than victory on the ordinary front. Moreover, without victory in the information war, victory in the ordinary war is impossible.
    1. Reddragon
      Reddragon 4 July 2013 14: 49 New
      0
      As for me, these are just distorted facts: there must have been an industrial revolution there, not a lag.
    2. kvodrato
      kvodrato 7 July 2013 20: 57 New
      0
      The history of Russia or how they hid our past.
  3. avt
    avt 4 July 2013 09: 47 New
    11
    For those who still believe that the Petrushkin reforms were vital, to the mossy, backward "Russian state, I recommend looking for and reading the travel notes of the Patriarch of Antioch, Macarius, who visited Russia during the" Quietest "and simply assessing the situation in the country through the eyes of the OWNER, not A “classic” historian. Notes were written by his son Pavel, also a priest, they were published on archival material, a translation from the English copy and the Arabic original stored in the archive of our Foreign Ministry.
    1. Drosselmeyer
      Drosselmeyer 4 July 2013 11: 50 New
      -1
      Read the history of China from the 17th to 19th centuries and understand why Peter's reforms were needed. China, too, in the 17th century was not inferior to the Western powers, but by the 19th century it had slid to a scattered half-colony. Without Peter's reforms, this also awaited Russia.
      1. Gato
        Gato 4 July 2013 12: 17 New
        11
        Just do not talk about China.
        The Chinese were very lucky with history in general - their emperors and the great helmsmen with enviable persistence and hard work periodically destroyed all the documents and archives of their predecessors.
        Now the Chinese can write the story they like best.
        And the value of Peter's reforms is really more than controversial.
        1. Uhe
          Uhe 4 July 2013 12: 49 New
          +5
          And we destroyed both in ancient times, and in present. Under Yeltsin, purposefully entire archives were destroyed, and there was a lot of valuable information. For example, in the late 90s, when one person came to the post, they destroyed the archive of Soviet experience in the fight against "partisans" - highlanders, Bandera, and so on, but he would have been useful in the Caucasian War. Why do you think? ;)
          1. Gato
            Gato 4 July 2013 13: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: Uhe
            Why do you think?

            You probably wanted to ask: "What do you think, for what amount?"
            1. Lapotnik
              Lapotnik 4 July 2013 16: 29 New
              +1
              I will add - for what amount it is not entirely correct (or at all). When at stake is power over the people and in the future over the world, talk about the price talk ... well, somehow not look)))
          2. Lapotnik
            Lapotnik 4 July 2013 16: 27 New
            +4
            We tried the Romanovs, and then both Yeltsin and Westerners rewrote open history, and in China they always had their Romanovs, and I have suspicions that they do not have a thousand-year history behind them, since they have more riddles and inconsistencies than in the mountains our story now.
            It’s like we have with a three hundred year old yoke - and the Mongols didn’t even know it, so do the Chinese - and the wall is Chinese - but what about a sieve?)))

            PS. I’m worried about something else - in conversations on the subject of history, when you give simple facts, it’s easier for people to accept their cattle past told by those who attacked us rather than try to look with an open mind ... and cringe before Europe further. It feels like being afraid of being a great nation.

            PPP. There is still Temko - great nations are great either remain, rising from their knees, or leave without a trace, since they can not be subjugated / humiliated, etc. And the destiny of the poor in spirit is rot and decay in the backyard of the farmyard ... I think it’s not worth pointing out the course of historical events and who and where is located in the end.
          3. Djozz
            Djozz 4 July 2013 20: 18 New
            0
            Remember Volkogonov, not by night said.
        2. Djozz
          Djozz 4 July 2013 20: 16 New
          0
          Verily, to lie and steal other people's discoveries, they are masters ...
      2. avt
        avt 4 July 2013 12: 41 New
        +5
        Quote: Drosselmeyer
        Read the history of China from the 17th to 19th centuries and understand why Peter's reforms were needed. China, too, in the 17th century was not inferior to the Western powers, but by the 19th century it had slid to a scattered half-colony. Without Peter's reforms, this also awaited Russia.

        request Well, history really teaches that it doesn’t teach anything, even in this article it is proved that RUSSIA was developing gradually without isolation from the outside world, but no, the almost religious cult of Peter's reforms does not even try to comprehend the facts that lie on the surface.
        1. AntonR7
          AntonR7 4 July 2013 20: 17 New
          +3
          It is not for us to judge Peter's reforms, since he undertook them, then the time has come. He loved the country, I think this is a fact, and therefore wanted to benefit.
      3. smile
        smile 4 July 2013 12: 45 New
        0
        Drosselmeyer
        If you can cite at least some facts that Russian tsars, like Chinese emperors, issued normative acts on self-isolation, prohibited the exploration and development of lands, trade with other states, ... up to the death penalty, destroyed the fleet, etc. then it would be possible to listen to your assumptions ... and so ... one gets the impression that they just said for the red words ... excuse me ...
        1. sumcream56
          sumcream56 4 July 2013 16: 37 New
          -2
          It was so. The military fleet of Russia before Peter I was not at all. The first university in Russia appeared during the Northern War - after the accession of Estonia - Derpt (Tartu), founded 600 years earlier than Moscow University. In 1620, Russian tsars banned foreign expeditions, and indeed any unauthorized voyages along the Northern Sea Route. About Sweden, the article was bent. Just under Mikhail Romanov and his son Alexei, She finally fixed the mouth of the Niva along the Stolbovsky world. The war of 1657-1658 during the armistice with Poland ended in disaster. At the same time, Sweden itself fought with Poland.
          1. avt
            avt 4 July 2013 17: 27 New
            +4
            Quote: sumcream56
            In 1620, Russian tsars banned foreign expeditions, and indeed any unauthorized voyages along the Northern Sea Route.

            And they did it right! We took care of our monopoly trade in fur-bearing animals and walrus and mammoth bones, exported them by sea from Mangazeya, here we sniffed Aglitsky and Dutch merchants and equipped the Barents to open, unknown lands and the passage to India "Let their descendants rejoice that the Enlighteners are Pomeranians they were saved, which were wild, uneducated, and were not accustomed to sea swimming, but now, thanks to the efforts of the Geyvropsky enlighteners of the present, it also turns out that they are not Russians at all, but the animals are unknown to their own language. And note, even in the absence of a fleet, no one blundered! Accepted and swallowed and then traded in Arkhangelsk as the king ordered them and at set prices.
          2. Ivan_Ivanov
            Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 17: 29 New
            +3
            I want to remind you that Mr. Tartu was formerly called Derpt, and before that - Yuryev and was founded by Yaroslav the Wise. So the university in Russia was, but was lost along with the city.

            That is, it turns out that this is a Russian city, after the turmoil and war of 1612, Russia lost. That is, the outlying principalities and vassal lands as a result of the turmoil fell away from the metropolis and everyone tried to grab as much as possible a piece. And Peter came to power in the metropolis of the empire, from which only the central regions remained. That is why Russia did not have a fleet (lost with the coastal territories), that's why there were no guns. Peter did a lot for the establishment of the state and the return of the lost territories. Whoever he is.
        2. Drosselmeyer
          Drosselmeyer 4 July 2013 18: 30 New
          +1
          smile
          And what fleet did Russia have before Peter? Nothing. If you look at the history, then those countries that did not accept the European system (at least the upper strata of society) died or were occupied. Tell me at least one country that was able to be independent and did not carry out reforms in the style of Petrovsky for this? Even the Ottoman Empire had to do this.
          1. Horde
            Horde 4 July 2013 19: 21 New
            +4
            Quote: Drosselmeyer
            And what fleet did Russia have before Peter? Nothing. E


            look, "no" siege by Tsar Alexei of Svejskoy Riga 1656 The First Northern War the Russian fleet had three-masted ships different from Cossack single-masted gulls Riga was besieged by land and by the river, by the way DVINA was written as DUNA


            this is a very rare illustration, however, it makes it clear that SILENT ALEXEI had, and he had a lot of things.
            1. Drosselmeyer
              Drosselmeyer 4 July 2013 21: 50 New
              +1
              Horde
              You would specify how the siege of Riga ended. They did not take the city, but did not take it, because the fleet of the Danish allies did not block the city from the river. The Russian army simply had nothing to block the city from the water side and the Swedes successfully supplied reinforcements along the river. So on engravings it was possible to draw anything, but the reality was somewhat different.
              1. Horde
                Horde 4 July 2013 22: 57 New
                0
                Quote: Drosselmeyer
                Horde
                You would specify how the siege of Riga ended. They did not take the city, but did not take it, because the fleet of the Danish allies did not block the city from the river. The Russian army simply had nothing to block the city from the water side and the Swedes successfully supplied reinforcements along the river. So on engravings it was possible to draw anything, but the reality was somewhat different.


                Yes, we know how it ended in TI was a pest of horses, but here's the catch 80000 soldiers beset 9000 in the fortress, HOW can you not take a city with such a balance of forces? The answer is one, but how can Tsar Alexei the warrior and the converter of Russia be called SILENT? ONLY PERFECT FANTASY of the traditional historians of Germans and their "Russian" minions who were brutalized from hatred for the Russian people can come up with this.
            2. anger
              anger 4 July 2013 23: 40 New
              0
              Dvina and now in German Dune is called
      4. Uhe
        Uhe 4 July 2013 12: 46 New
        +6
        totally agree with you. Also saw this analogy. There is only one "but." China was captured by the Manchurians (Russia - by the Germans under the leadership of Peter) and it was they who put an end to the development of a purely Han state (we have a Russian one). At first, the Manchurians well strengthened the state, but the indigenous people of the Han were trampled and humiliated, reduced to the level of lower existence (in our country - the complete enslavement of the peasantry and the huge preferences of the Germans moving to Russia). Later reign of the Manzhchurs led the country to capture by foreigners (in our country - the economic capture of the time of Witte, who looked very much like Kudrin’s affairs, and war to please the West, and not his own interests). There are many parallels.

        But there is one big difference. The Han state is a Confucian state. And the Manchus were even more Confucian than the Han people :) It was their pig-iron, and not living, Confucianism, that they surrendered the country to foreigners, trying to gain a foothold in the past, to become numb. In Ros. Imp. this did not happen, but this is the difference in mentality - our people are ebullient and careless, any German in a couple of decades becomes Russian, relying not on the order, but maybe a great one :) Probably Russians are alive and have the ability to attract and absorb into their ranks others are constantly on the move and in search, the Han people are more like monotonous robots.
        1. Horde
          Horde 4 July 2013 19: 45 New
          +1
          China was captured by Manchuria


          and who were the MANCHURES?
          where did they go? why they still cannot be found, like the Golden Horde?
          Manchurians were Russians, Cossacks conquerors. On old maps 16-19th these places were called INDEPENDENT TARTAR. The state lasted until the mid-19th century until the so-called OPUM WAR, when Romanov Russia, England and France defeated this state the remainder of the MOSCOW KINGDOM subsequently named Manchuria by the way. Manchuria is a distorted Mongolia, and Dauria on the Amur is the Horde on the contrary.
          By the way, at the same time, America, England forced Japan to open the borders by force of arms and forced the change of dynasties.
      5. Alexandr0id
        Alexandr0id 4 July 2013 13: 36 New
        +1
        the first task of the small Qing Manchu was to maintain their dominance over hundreds of millions of Chinese, with which they more or less successfully managed 2,5 centuries.
      6. Pelican
        Pelican 4 July 2013 14: 58 New
        +1
        I agree with you completely! Only an example with China is unsuccessful. It should be compared with Turkey. By this time, it was a very dangerous historical competitor with comparable human and economic resources. And they neutralized it long and hard. If it were not for the reforms of Peter, the south of Russia might not have existed now!
        1. avt
          avt 4 July 2013 19: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: Pelican
          If it were not for the reforms of Peter, the south of Russia might not have existed now!

          Yes, he didn’t lie at all here, wrecked the forest around Voronezh for ships and sale, the rebuilt fleet stupidly decayed without proper care, well, and the Prussian adventure put an end to all acquisitions - Azov and Taganrog, burned the rest of the ships under a peace treaty, and five pieces, more or less keeping afloat, they sold to the Turks, including the famous Goto Predestination, and everything returned to the notch line advanced and equipped with fortifications by his predecessors, and Petrusha was not frail from them, it’s enough to read an eyewitness of that time - the Patriarch of Antioch, which I already mentioned, he very interestingly and competently, from a military point of view, described a number of fortresses through which he passed with a list of garrison and artillery and civilians.
    2. Uhe
      Uhe 4 July 2013 12: 36 New
      11
      I completely agree. Peter Antichrist turned Russia to where the West told him to, and cut a window in order to rob Russia, and in return for it give way to all abomination. Peter broke our primordial culture, planted it under the West, which raped and pumped out juices from Russians for several hundred years. Only under Stalin this was put to an end and partly there was a return to past traditions. It is not for nothing that this is the only era when Lomonosov’s theory was considered the origin of Russian statehood, and not the Norman theory invented by the Germans.

      And it’s not for nothing that the current “reforms” very much resemble Peter's reforms - the same shitty window, the same Western values ​​and the destruction of our Russian and Soviet customs. The same blackness has come, the same anti-christ peters.

      In general, Westernism is similar to death for Russians. Like Eurasianism. Only soil science and Slavophilism.
  4. Alex65
    Alex65 4 July 2013 09: 54 New
    +6
    Thank you Valery Evgenievich for the article
  5. Opera
    Opera 4 July 2013 10: 02 New
    11
    One can understand how history is distorted and rewritten very well by the example of coverage in the West of the war against fascism! Silence of fateful events and the exaltation of local to decisive. The widespread introduction of false values ​​under which history is customized is still very recent!
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 10: 08 New
      +4
      No need to go far. Remember the coverage of the war in Ossetia ...
  6. Wedmak
    Wedmak 4 July 2013 10: 05 New
    +5
    Plus an article, minus us as a people forgetting their history.
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 10: 10 New
      +5
      Not people write TEXTBOOKS of history. No people teach at universities. Not people finance the media. Not people are editing programs and news.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 4 July 2013 10: 49 New
        0
        Not people write TEXTBOOKS of history. No people teach at universities. Not people finance the media. Not people are editing programs and news.

        But what, the one who sells our homeland, worships Western norms and values, has not left the people? Or are they a different people? Sold for green pieces of paper, and even sell others. It's disgusting to see this ....
        1. Ivan_Ivanov
          Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 10: 55 New
          +3
          That's it. They are no longer people. They have already left the people.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 4 July 2013 12: 27 New
            0
            That's it. They are no longer people. They have already left the people.

            Well no. This is our same people, only brought up on other values. How and why, another question.
            And it is necessary, it is necessary to return them to our original values.
            1. Ivan_Ivanov
              Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 12: 44 New
              +3
              For some reason, it’s difficult for me to call part of the people traitors:

              as those who fought on the side of Hitler during the Second World War,

              so also those who are fighting on the side of the enemy in the information war now.
            2. Gato
              Gato 4 July 2013 14: 39 New
              0
              Quote: Wedmak
              And it is necessary, it is necessary to return them to our original values.

              Unfortunately, even judging by the comments, our original values ​​are different for everyone
        2. washi
          washi 4 July 2013 12: 29 New
          +7
          As was said about the idiots of the Decembrists: they are terribly far from the people.
          Under Stalin, anyone could become a leader (they killed for this). Later there was a caste of party members who everywhere shoved their cubs. At the moment, the same thing.
        3. Horde
          Horde 4 July 2013 19: 47 New
          0
          Quote: Wedmak
          Not people write TEXTBOOKS of history. No people teach at universities. Not people finance the media. Not people are editing programs and news.

          But what, the one who sells our homeland, worships Western norms and values, has not left the people? Or are they a different people? Sold for green pieces of paper, and even sell others. It's disgusting to see this ....


          in fact, this is another people of the Jews are called
    2. Gato
      Gato 4 July 2013 12: 25 New
      +4
      Totally agree with you. Everything that the author writes about, many historians and publicists have been repeating for the past 15 years. But the vast majority are not interested in history, it does not read books
  7. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 4 July 2013 10: 37 New
    +1
    It is good that now more and more such articles are appearing. And then many pages of history are very little known.
  8. Ross
    Ross 4 July 2013 11: 13 New
    +2
    Quote: avt
    For those who still believe that the Petrushkin reforms were vital, to the mossy, backward "Russian state, I recommend looking for and reading the travel notes of the Patriarch of Antioch, Macarius, who visited Russia during the" Quietest "and simply assessing the situation in the country through the eyes of the OWNER, not A “classic” historian. Notes were written by his son Pavel, also a priest, they were published on archival material, a translation from the English copy and the Arabic original stored in the archive of our Foreign Ministry.


    All our Russian official history has been falsified almost until the 20 century. And to this day, the "official" historical science of Russia carries out the Western order. Check out at least these two recent articles on the topic: http://politobzor.net/show-1991-zamalchivaemaya-istoriya-rossii.html
    http://politobzor.net/show-1990-falsifikaciya-istorii-kak-raznovidnost-zahvatnic
    heskoy-voyny.html
    Read the wonderful work of the historian Vinogradov "Vdicheskaya Rus is the basis of existence", where the author has collected all the works of Russian and foreign sources from the Middle Ages to the present day, convincingly proving the antiquity of our people and the role of the Slavs in the creation of European and Asian civilization. Many ancient artifacts and documents are hushed up by "official" pseudo-Russian historians.
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 11: 30 New
      12
      I agree with the text.

      Picture - huge fat minus!

      The Great Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians - ONE Russian people.

      Understand that even this picture is drawn on the basis of lies and the substitution of concepts that occurred after the revolution. Before the revolution, both Ukrainians and Belarusians and Great Russians were called RUSSIAN. As a result of the substitution of concepts, the name RUSSIANs was left only to the Great Russians. But this is a cunning, deceitful substitution of concepts aimed at dividing and weakening the united Russian people.
      1. washi
        washi 4 July 2013 14: 49 New
        +2
        Error. Until now, they are called Russians in the west of Everyone who lived in the USSR.
        It doesn’t quite suit me. The tribal relations of the Caucasus and Central Asia should not be mixed with the mixing of blood, ceremonies, traditions of the peoples of Russia
    2. Papakiko
      Papakiko 4 July 2013 12: 40 New
      0
      Quote: Ross
      All our Russian official history

      And at 20m. also "tirelessly" tirelessly.
      Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
      This is the "Empire of Evil", and bears on the streets of Moscow, and millions of raped Germans, and the Stalinist terror against the people, and the most expensive gasoline in the world, and the Russian attack on Georgia, and the preparation of the Soviet attack on Germany ... These (and other myths) are intensely created and planted despite the fact that in our century it is quite easy to find out how things really are. There is enough truthful information, it is not necessary to search for it for a long time. It's just that the truth is not voiced, it is hushed up by the mainstream media, in schools, at universities ...

      And many, many, many.

      And Where did our ancestors look at the future in moments?
    3. Gato
      Gato 4 July 2013 12: 51 New
      +3
      Quote: Ross
      historical science of Russia

      Do you consider history a science? This is a means of propaganda - and nothing more.
      Real science involves the use of the scientific method, i.e. Sequences: data analysis-hypothesis-experiment-theory. Theory is always a simplified process model, sufficient for practical use. And what kind of experiment can we talk about in history?
      As a result, hypotheses sucked from the finger are obtained, on the basis of which delusional theories are built - and the spreading trees shown in the picture grow on this fertilizer.
    4. Alexandr0id
      Alexandr0id 4 July 2013 13: 28 New
      0
      looked at the picture - a rare delirium. Slavic history began in the middle of the 1 millennium A.D., why try to rust it, what kind of complexes are these?
      1. Joker
        Joker 4 July 2013 13: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexandr0id
        1st millennium AD, why try to wood it, what kind of complexes are these?


        - watch the movie Zadornov. There is a mention of DNA. Namely, according to recent studies, the DNA of the Slavs is the purest, and it is from the Slavs that many (not all) peoples have descended. Many independent linguists say the same thing, but in terms of languages. History, as it is now, in line with official science, is a policy of pure water.

        In general, self-educated and do not write nonsense.
        1. Sour
          Sour 4 July 2013 16: 28 New
          +6
          Now "official science" - this is Zadornov and Fomenko and the like. It is their waste paper that shelves of bookstores are littered. But serious historical literature is not available. It is sometimes published in print runs of 500-700 copies throughout Russia. I have to order such books, I came across this more than once. But to buy "alternative" or find it on the Internet is not a problem. Someone needs it.
          "Self-educate" is also necessary wisely, and not from Zadornov’s films.
          1. Horde
            Horde 4 July 2013 19: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: Sour
            It’s also necessary to self-educate wisely, and not from Zadornov’s films.


            did you even watch a movie? or so did not see, but since Zadornov I condemn
          2. does it
            does it 5 July 2013 01: 01 New
            0
            Now "official science" - this is Zadornov and Fomenko and the like.
            They make people think! After all, Schliemann once found the legendary Troy before scolding him, laughed at him, and then scolded him.
          3. Joker
            Joker 7 July 2013 11: 55 New
            0
            Quote: Sour
            Sour



            but nothing that this version in one form or another expressed Mendelev, Morozov and others?

            if you look at the other side of the world, you can look at how history can be distorted, an example of pindocia. They fought with Hitler. Well, Stalin seemed to be, but it is not clear the ally or fought on the side of Germany.

            Quote: Sour
            But serious historical literature is not available.


            but can I ask a question, what is hidden behind the term serious?

            and about the thousand-year history of the Slavs - once again carefully read my first post, it says about DNA. There are things you can’t argue with, they are simply hushed up, so good luck in finding the truth, if this is of course your goal.
      2. washi
        washi 4 July 2013 14: 56 New
        +2
        And who said that (wrote).
        Have you read the tales of the peoples of Siberia?
        Do not believe the official story. We must believe the people and their memory
      3. Andrey57
        Andrey57 4 July 2013 15: 57 New
        +2
        If you do not know anything about the more ancient periods of the history of the Slavs, then it does not at all follow that this history did not exist)))
        1. Ross
          Ross 4 July 2013 16: 26 New
          0
          Quote: Andrey57
          [i] If you do not know anything about the more ancient periods of the history of the Slavs, then it does not follow from this that this story did not exist)))


          “In order to reasonably and correctly arrange their lives, the people must know their origin, as the basis of their national consciousness, and then the whole history of their past. A nation is a “nation" and a state only insofar as it feels and accepts its history as an integral part of its existence, when it values ​​its national independence and strives for its unification, for the creation of an independent state. " O. Vinogradov
        2. Alexandr0id
          Alexandr0id 4 July 2013 21: 31 New
          0
          not only me, world science knows almost nothing about the more ancient period of life of the Slavs, and not only the Slavs, but many other peoples. it just so happened that non-literate ethnic groups, living far from the centers of civilization, left only archaeological monuments about themselves, from which you only have to guess about their life in the prehistoric period.
          and about antiquity or youth, why complex? youth is not a vice.
        3. does it
          does it 5 July 2013 01: 05 New
          0
          Quote: Andrey57
          If you do not know anything about the more ancient periods of the history of the Slavs, then it does not at all follow that this history did not exist)))

          Correctly! after all, how many books and manuscripts the priests burned during the christening of Russia!
      4. Ross
        Ross 4 July 2013 16: 15 New
        +2
        Quote: Alexandr0id
        looked at the picture - a rare delirium. Slavic history began in the middle of the 1 millennium A.D., why try to rust it, what kind of complexes are these?


        “In the world of literature devoted to the history of Russians and Slavs there is a lot of research, but very few studies objectively covering what happened many centuries ago. The book of OT Vinogradov is one of the few worthy works about the Slavs. The variety of information and attempts to systematize the history of the Slavs, Russ speak of the huge work carried out by the author.
        There are questions and problems raised by O.T. Vinogradov, which can be disputed, but it is better to postpone this discussion after acquainting readers with the book in the audience of people who are not indifferent to their Slavic origin.
        The book "Fragments from the true initial history of the Slavs" covers our history without distortion. I hope that it will help everyone who has not forgotten their origin to see their story, in contrast to the official one, written for political, religious, personal and other reasons. Only having cast aside the division of the Slavs for political, religious and other reasons, we finally find unity, which the Slavs really lack for us.
        Chairman of the Board of the Interregional Public Organization "Cultural and Educational Organization" Slavs "-
        Nazarov V. G. "
    5. Horde
      Horde 4 July 2013 19: 51 New
      0
      about the picture of yours, IT'S LATER, Russians, what did the Germans go from the Germans or what?
      1. Ross
        Ross 4 July 2013 23: 06 New
        +1
        Quote: Horde
        about the picture of yours, IT'S LATER, Russians, what did the Germans go from the Germans or what?


        Picture from the book of Vinogradov, just a diagram. And not Russians from the Germans, but Germans from a common ancestor. Just the branches that went west from the main family tree are Europeans, and the Russians remained in the ancestral homeland of their ancestors.
        1. OLGRIN
          OLGRIN 5 July 2013 15: 24 New
          +1
          In my opinion, this is a correct understanding of our roots. Common ancestors are arias. But then who will go where, and the Russians remained in their ancestral home, if we take the modern map of Russia.
  9. omsbon
    omsbon 4 July 2013 11: 17 New
    +2
    The number of slanderers against Russia is a constant, because while Russia is standing there will be burry slanderers.
  10. Opera
    Opera 4 July 2013 11: 21 New
    +2
    Quote: omsbon
    The number of slanderers against Russia is a constant, because while Russia is standing there will be burry slanderers

    If only these ...
  11. Uhe
    Uhe 4 July 2013 12: 31 New
    +1
    I would like the future non-Lebrast Russia to be based on the customs and customs of pre-Petrine Russia, coupled with the Stalinist socialist ones, because the socialist path is natural for the Russians. One should not draw inspiration from the pro-Western Russian Empire, in which the power was in the hands of Russified Germans from the seedy Holstein, who were policeman without exception (unfortunately, this muck touched even the great Suvorov), and the Russian people were enslaved, and from this Russia, pre-Petrine. It was the era of Stalin that revived that era, after it came to naught, and now they have again returned to the very Freemasons, for whom all Russian is alien and hateful.
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 12: 53 New
      0
      Learn the story.

      In all periods there were both good and bad rulers and times.

      For example, Catherine II is not German at all, as they try to convince us. Look carefully at her title.

      You must admit that it is precisely Western agents that liberal historians and publicists try to denigrate our history. Who do they pour the most dirt on? On Stalin, on Nikolai2, in general, on all our kings of the 19th century. This alone should give rise to doubt that the Russian emperors are pro-Western.
      1. smile
        smile 4 July 2013 15: 00 New
        +3
        Ivan_Ivanov
        Nobody in the West is pouring mud on Stalin’s niche .. in general, comparing them ... is unreasonable. He portrayed the whole essence of his insignificance in his personal diaries ... worse than no one poured it on himself ...
        1. Ivan_Ivanov
          Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 15: 07 New
          +2
          Not Nikolashka, but Nicholas II the All-Russian Emperor. Have respect for the history of your state and the state itself.

          Where does your belief in the allegedly insignificance of the last Russian emperor come from? And legs grow from the same place, from where the attempts to accuse Stalin of all kinds of sins.

          Have you read Nikolai’s diaries in the original, or at least their photocopies? No?

          Take a closer look, WHO allegedly quotes the words of Nicholas.
          1. Gato
            Gato 4 July 2013 15: 54 New
            +8
            Quote: Ivan_Ivanov

            Where does your belief in the allegedly insignificance of the last Russian emperor come from?

            To compare Nikolai with Stalin, as smile put it mildly, is unreasonable - it is better to compare with EBN. Both the one and the other in the “asset” have failed wars, betrayal of interests and the collapse of the country, which they led by misunderstanding.
            And in the diaries, everyone can imagine himself, if not Caesar, then at least Cicero. You need to look at business - how did Nikolai glorify himself?
            Shamefully lost by the war (Japanese), rampant leftist terrorism, Rasputin? And as a result, instead of the lost crown, they now hang the halo of a saint! For what?!

            Have respect for the history of your state and the state itself.

            Is the Russian Empire, the USSR and the Russian Federation the same state? Respect for history and respect for its individual characters are two different things.
            1. Djozz
              Djozz 4 July 2013 20: 31 New
              +1
              Obeyed psychopathic wife, with rotten blood. Hemophilia nslednika.
          2. Djozz
            Djozz 4 July 2013 20: 28 New
            +1
            I read on the Chronos website. Everyday diaries, interest only in family and weather.
      2. Horde
        Horde 4 July 2013 20: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
        For example, Catherine II is not German at all, as they try to convince us. Look carefully at her title.


        and who was she? Have you come up with something new?
        Learn the story.


        we study, for example, Shambarov writes something that they didn’t write before. If, under Tsar Alexei, the states and weapons that were not weak by the medieval standards were able to conquer, then under Nikolay2 they didn’t even develop their weapons, they bought technology and the guns themselves were lagging behind, and the recruit in the tsarist army in the 20th century it was first necessary to FAT, and then only ask for service. These were these German tsars.
        1. Horde
          Horde 4 July 2013 20: 24 New
          0
          Therefore, the history of Russia-Russia is clearly divided into before and after. After Peter and his transformations and before him, when Russia was powerful and rich. And it’s probably time to already conclude that RICH AND POWERFUL Russia was under the control of the Russian tsars, but from Peter came Romanov-Germans.
        2. Ivan_Ivanov
          Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 23: 13 New
          +2
          She was the princess of the Angelt of Zerbs.

          Do you know why Tserbskaya? Because if Serbian, then you can no longer call her German. But the Serbs still remember that they are Russian and Russia is their mother. We sometimes say Belarusians - Syabrs ...

          And the nationality Belarusians, malorosy and great-rose form one nation - Russian.
          1. Horde
            Horde 4 July 2013 23: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
            She was the princess of the Angelt of Zerbs.

            Do you know why Tserbskaya? Because if Serbian, then you can no longer call her German. But the Serbs still remember that they are Russian and Russia is their mother. We sometimes say Belarusians - Syabrs ...

            And the nationality Belarusians, malorosy and great-rose form one nation - Russian.


            serious remark, but what evidence do you have of this? For example, there is hundreds of evidence that Katka didn’t really speak Russian, and all her life had a German accent.
    2. washi
      washi 4 July 2013 14: 59 New
      +1
      You can still call the Old Believers. Do not drink, do not smoke, But deny science. But they do not require pensions and benefits.
  12. Vlad_Mir
    Vlad_Mir 4 July 2013 13: 01 New
    +1
    We must live for today! At the moment we are lagging behind and very serious!
  13. makst83
    makst83 4 July 2013 13: 07 New
    +1
    in the books of V. Mendinsky, the stereotypes of europa about us are very detailed.
  14. Alexandr0id
    Alexandr0id 4 July 2013 13: 31 New
    -1
    the main factor in our lag was the slave system (the so-called serfdom), and this can’t be crossed out. and the fact that creative people in art, science, industry, and education have always been talented and fashionable to say is really true, without them there is complete darkness.
    1. smile
      smile 4 July 2013 15: 05 New
      +2
      Alexandr0id
      Firstly, serfdom did not exist in almost half of the territory of the Empire
      secondly, the position of serfs in the 19th century radically differed from the position of real slaves, such as, for example, in the USA.
      thirdly, yes, there was a jamb, and it disturbed us.
      1. Sour
        Sour 4 July 2013 16: 49 New
        +2
        Name at least one “cardinal difference” of slavery in the USA from slavery in Russia. I will read it with interest.
        The only difference is that serfs in Russia were drafted into the army, and there were no blacks in the United States. But in the United States before the Civil War, there was simply no conscription.
        Serfdom in Russia was exactly slave. Let's stop wagging booty and deny this bitter truth.
      2. Alexandr0id
        Alexandr0id 4 July 2013 21: 22 New
        +4
        firstly, let's count not square kilometers, but people, or souls if you like, and then it turns out that most of the subjects of the empire are slaves. most of the Russians were serfs, just national minorities, which were not characteristic of slavery until they were included in the empire, and remained free.
        The cardinal difference between Russian slavery and any other, and this is the most outrageous and shameful, is that in other countries foreigners (blacks in the USA) were enslaved, and in Russia the titular nation was enslaved.
        and comparing where the slaves lived worse is like comparing prisons, even if you are fed well in prison, you are still in prison.
    2. washi
      washi 4 July 2013 15: 06 New
      0
      Serfdom and slavery are different concepts. To drive into the fortress, that is, in debt or to have a complete slave. Debts can be worked out, but you can’t get out of slavery.
      By the way, when did the most democratic country give up slavery? When will the colored genocide cease and the reservations and black quarters disappear?
      1. Sour
        Sour 4 July 2013 16: 38 New
        0
        In Russia, before the abolition of serfdom, the free sale of peasants without land was practiced. The landowner could separate the parents from their children, marry the peasants at their discretion. He could send a peasant to Siberia without trial, subject him to corporal punishment. Could transfer the serf at any time from the peasants to the yard, and vice versa. I couldn’t just kill, but gentlemen the landowners successfully circumvented this ban. In essence, slavery is pure water. No need to compare serfdom in Russia in the 18-19 centuries with what was in medieval Europe. And it was impossible to "fulfill" serfdom, do not say nonsense. There was no compulsory ransom in Russia, and the landowner was not obliged to let the serf free, even if he was ready to pay any amount for his ransom.
        Comparison with the United States does not pull. In Russia, serfdom was 40% of the population of the Empire. In the United States, there was not such a close percentage of slaves.
        1. Sour
          Sour 4 July 2013 16: 52 New
          +2
          Here zaminusovat - it's easy. And to refute reasonably is weak. Which once again confirms the truth that I wrote.
          And only a dumb person considers “denial of the dark pages of our history” as “patriotism”. There would be less such supposedly "patriots."
          1. avt
            avt 4 July 2013 17: 15 New
            -1
            Quote: Sour
            In Russia, before the abolition of serfdom, the free sale of peasants without land was practiced. The landowner could separate the parents from their children, marry the peasants at their discretion. He could send a peasant to Siberia without trial, subject him to corporal punishment. Could transfer the serf at any time from the peasants to the yard, and vice versa.
            For which many thanks to the reformer Pedrush No. 1 and the continuer of his Gayvrop reformation, mother Catherine No. 2, it was from here that the actual slavery in Russia went, finally sealed with blood under Emelyan Pugachev.
            Quote: Sour
            In essence, slavery is pure water. No need to compare serfdom in Russia in the 18-19 centuries with what was in medieval Europe. And it was impossible to "fulfill" serfdom, do not say nonsense.
            Imagine this practice was, people went to the fortress for debts, paid for it, but it was stopped precisely during the reformation and cultivation of Russia by the comrades I have already indicated, but the famous passage in Yuryev of peasants from one nobleman to another, whom enlightened Europe “I never knew, Godunov canceled yet. Ask what the saying in Russia meant,“ Here’s your grandmother and St. George’s Day ”and when it arose.
            1. Sour
              Sour 4 July 2013 20: 14 New
              +3
              And what about the reforms of Peter? Do not distort the history of the homeland, it is ugly. Serfdom is officially introduced in Russia, the so-called "Cathedral Code" in 1649, Peter was not yet born. It was then that the term "serf" appeared. It was then that the peasants lost the right to change their place of residence. It was then that the unlimited search for the fugitives was introduced. Peter just continued the policy of his Moscow predecessors. How did you decide that I do not know the story? I doubt very much that I know her worse than you. With the introduction of serfdom, there was no opportunity to "work out", no need to compose. The "Council Code" put an end to this. And before this code of serfdom de jure was not in Russia. What to invent? And "fortress" did not mean debt, but attachment. First to the ground, and then to the identity of the owner. Since the middle of the 17th century, there was no right to buy from the peasants. There were still restrictions on the sale of serfs (without land), but the right to “exit”, i.e. foreclosures finally became a thing of the past in 1649.
              And I don’t need any advice about "asking". I know about Yuryev Day without you, and for a long time. This was not canceled by Peter, but by his father, long before the birth of Peter.
              1. FRIGATE2
                FRIGATE2 4 July 2013 23: 12 New
                +2
                Quote: Sour
                And what about the reforms of Peter? Do not distort the history of the homeland, it is ugly. Serfdom is officially introduced in Russia, the so-called "Cathedral Code" in 1649, Peter was not yet born. It was then that the term "serf" appeared. It was then that the peasants lost the right to change their place of residence. It was then that the unlimited search for the fugitives was introduced. Peter just continued the policy of his Moscow predecessors. How did you decide that I do not know the story? I doubt very much that I know her worse than you. With the introduction of serfdom, there was no opportunity to "work out", no need to compose. The "Council Code" put an end to this. And before this code of serfdom de jure was not in Russia. What to invent? And "fortress" did not mean debt, but attachment. First to the ground, and then to the identity of the owner. Since the middle of the 17th century, there was no right to buy from the peasants. There were still restrictions on the sale of serfs (without land), but the right to “exit”, i.e. foreclosures finally became a thing of the past in 1649.
                And I don’t need any advice about "asking". I know about Yuryev Day without you, and for a long time. This was not canceled by Peter, but by his father, long before the birth of Peter.

                Cossacks are also like the nickname of those first serf Russians who fled to the borders of the great steppe to the Turks, otherwise how can the Cossacks explain Turkic terminology so often, but the faith is Orthodox and Russian-speaking, that is, in those days, “Cossack” (read the current Kazakh) It was considered the status of freedom, which once again proves the antiquity of the term Cossack - ka-sak - free sak.
                And the empowering empire declared the fugitives Cossacks, that is, it called names. This is about the same psychology of today's people, calling people people in the area of ​​contact with other peoples
    3. Djozz
      Djozz 4 July 2013 20: 33 New
      +1
      What is better economic slavery? Work houses in England. Read Dickens.
      1. Alexandr0id
        Alexandr0id 4 July 2013 21: 35 New
        +1
        freedom of choice
  15. govoruha-otrok
    govoruha-otrok 4 July 2013 13: 43 New
    -3
    "The Swedish army was taken as a model, foreign commanders were hired."

    here. we need to change officers to Germans
    1. smile
      smile 4 July 2013 15: 08 New
      +1
      govoruha-otrok
      Yes, those days are gone. have already passed ... now, now it would be the other way around, our officers would not have prevented the Germans, they would have completely lost their combat effectiveness there, they had grown to full growth ... even with all the misery of our army ...
  16. Hort
    Hort 4 July 2013 13: 50 New
    0
    long ago I somehow came across a book that described that under Grozny we had the largest cannon park in Europe. And it’s very interesting, where did all the guns go that Peter then ordered the bells to be transferred to the guns?
    Well, perhaps the only useful reform of Peter I is the construction of the navy, because although the planes with the boats are good, however, they are not opponents against a full-fledged frigate and battleship. All other reforms, in my opinion, are controversial or generally negative in their consequences.
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 14: 00 New
      +2
      Where did the gun go?

      Have you heard about the intervention of the year 1612? About the civil war?

      Similarly...

      And where have our ships, submarines, planes gone? ... In the 92nd? And in the 20th? And if Ukraine could capture the Black Sea Fleet, then the fleet in the Black Sea would not exist now.

      Whether Peter the Tsar was good, or not, carried out the correct reforms, or not yet to be figured out. But the fact that he began to rule on the wreckage of the country, destroyed and destroyed to the ground long before him, in the conditions when the former suburbs and vassal lands began to "pull the blanket over themselves" trying to bite from Russia as much as possible - this is a fact.
      1. washi
        washi 4 July 2013 15: 45 New
        0
        Peter 1 grabbed Western values, including homosexuality, and ditched a third of the country's population. He inflicted embezzlements and licking lands and factories. He rewrote the history and laws of the state. Neither Ivan 4 the Terrible nor Stalin allowed such a thing. The state developed only when zapadents and Yids were not allowed to power (not to be confused with Jews)
        History repeats itself. White, red, black and other Russia, the outskirts .......
        Maybe we’ll start, at least, to read tsarist and Soviet stories, and draw conclusions.
        There are already a lot of documents declassified. Only if all of them are published is the revolution again. The hereditary informer ......, or the hereditary traitor ....... the descendant of the punisher ...... who exchanged the last values ​​for products in the besieged Leningrad. Below everything is now in power. And the GDP knows everything about everyone and remembers the stories of its parents, but to do it. One for All and All for One
    2. Gato
      Gato 4 July 2013 14: 31 New
      +3
      Quote: hort
      And it’s very interesting, where did all the guns go that Peter then ordered the bells to be transferred to the guns?

      And he "loved" them near Narva
      1. Hort
        Hort 5 July 2013 07: 57 New
        0
        Oh, I also thought about the same :)
    3. avt
      avt 4 July 2013 15: 20 New
      +3
      Quote: hort
      And it’s very interesting, where did all the guns go that Peter then ordered the bells to be transferred to the guns?

      Prosral under the first Narva, it was then that he began to remove the bells.
      Quote: hort
      Well, the only useful reform of Peter the Great is, perhaps, the construction of the navy,

      Again which one? request Can you name at least one operation, moreover, successful, Sailing linear fleet? Basically, only galleys, and if you look carefully, non-combat losses exceed even the number of Swedish trophies taken in battle, but not the combat losses of the sailing Baltic Fleet in general, something out of the ordinary. The Black Sea Fleet generally rotted without use and the remaining 5 ships were sold to the Turks after the Prut adventure. Of the 53 Baltic ships, 8 were killed, 1 “Bulinbrook” was captured by the Swedes on the stretch to St. Petersburg, every 111th was killed from 8 different classes, 1 “Enderlecht” was captured and also on the stretch. ,, All our affairs will be overthrown if the fleet And what do you write the word for the example of King Gishpansky, only you forgot to write the end of his speech that I have another fleet in the chests "wrote Petrush to Alexashka after the next death of 50 cannon ships. Only for the purchase of 10 ships and 2 frigates in Aeglia paid 409 thousand rubles, this with state revenues of 1710 g in 3 million .134 thousand rubles !!! Here is such an effective reform, however. We will keep silent about the state of the remaining, here there is more information already at the beginning of Catherine’s times and is not very encouraging.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 4 July 2013 16: 03 New
        +2
        In the Navy, the most fun thing was the construction of a port in the Rogervik harbor. 400 thousand? Yes, these are pathetic pennies ...
    4. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 4 July 2013 15: 55 New
      +1
      Merry Petya went to fight the Turks. And since he knew how to fight like everything else - there’s a lot of stink and nothing to do with it, then he ... all military equipment and was captured. Itself. Tsar of All Russia ... Having disgraced the Power forever, this "great reformer" has sunk it in such debts that it is hard to imagine. I had to redeem a zassan!
      So this genius left us without guns and without money for guns. So guns were pouring from bells, paying with bats. And when money was again needed for the booze, he sent the Semenovsky or Preobrazhensky regiment to any region of Russia. And there he often obtained heavy money by shooting at the European manir and with the same batogs. Take an interest in the population of Russia before and after this ghoul ...
  17. EXA-2
    EXA-2 4 July 2013 14: 08 New
    0
    Quote: Gato
    Do you consider history a science? This is a means of propaganda - and nothing more.
    Real science involves the use of the scientific method, i.e. Sequences: data analysis-hypothesis-experiment-theory. Theory is always a simplified process model, sufficient for practical use. And what kind of experiment can we talk about in history?
    As a result, hypotheses sucked from the finger are obtained, on the basis of which delusional theories are built - and the spreading trees shown in the picture grow on this fertilizer.

    I agree. And everyone writes how convenient it is (necessary).
  18. Motors1991
    Motors1991 4 July 2013 14: 59 New
    +2
    We fall from one extreme to the other, I will not argue about Russian schools, I’m not very knowledgeable. As for the Russian army, it had both positive and negative sides before the time of Peter the Great. It is positive that the Russian army of the 15-16 centuries was not hired. its striking force was the noble cavalry. The difference between the Russian noblemen and their western colleges was that ours received land from the sovereign for rent, he could either give it or take it away, in the West they gave the land in full ownership. In case of failure to show up for military service without respect The reasons for the Russian nobleman could easily lose his land and become a peasant in the small role, therefore the Russians valued the service. In the West, the king of the nobleman who didn’t attend the gathering could only scold and, in the worst case, deprive him of access to the courtyard. the battle was auxiliary, heavy squeaks could only be fired from the coasters and from behind the shelter. All models of handguns came from the West yes, of course, with a delay of several years, therefore, the Western infantry on the battlefield was always more mobile than the Russian. The commanding regiments of the “new system” at the first stage were manned exclusively by foreigners recruited in Europe. The Russian tsars always maintained a high level of artillery. , they didn’t spare money on hiring Italian, Dutch masters, the most famous of them Aristotle Fiorovanti, who created the first cannon manufactory under Ivan the 3rd in Moscow, you can recall the master Caspar, teacher Andrei Chokhov. Before the war of 1632 between Russia and Poland, the Swedish king Gustav Adolf sent to Moscow, Dutchman Julis Coet, who knew the secret of casting light field tools. So that everything is not so simple, the Russian state adopted a lot from Western Europe in military affairs, naturally surpassing its own. Peter's reforms are simply a continuation of what was done earlier, at that time in Europe, cavalry lost its decisive importance, infantry armed with lightweight silicon guns came first castles, at the end of which bayonets appeared, so glorifying Russian information. Just all the time, who could not understand this, slipped into secondary powers, such as invincible Turkey or Persia.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 4 July 2013 16: 02 New
      0
      Quote: Motors1991
      As for the Russian army, before Peter the Great, he had both positive and negative sides.

      Then the author of the article struck me with his "awareness":
      “For some reason, a legend was introduced that Russia was militarily behind the West. That’s complete nonsense. The Western armies in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries were a rather miserable sight. The knightly cavalry was outlived; undisciplined, constantly changing. The troops were made up of mercenaries. This earned the German and Italian princes, "condottierry." They formed the shelves from any rabble, sold to the one who paid.
      The obedience of such soldiers was supported by sticks and gallows ... There was no form at all; the army looked like a mass of ragged men ...
      Elite units were small. In France, the Musketeers' 2 Company and the 2 Guard Regiment (King’s personal guard). More advanced, professional army, created in the XVII century. in Holland Moritz of Orange, then the Swedes took over. Therefore, they defeated all their opponents. In England, Cromwell took over their achievements, formed the “Army of the new sample” of 22 thousand people.
      But in Russia, a professional army began to be created a hundred years earlier. In the 1550s, Ivan the Terrible began to form regiments of regular infantry, archers. They have already appeared in a single uniform: colorful caftans, hats, uniform armament with squeakers, berdysh, sabers. "
      The Spaniards were the best regular infantry in Europe since the 16th century: For the first time, thirds (a battle formation used by the Spanish army) were used during the Italian Wars (1494-1559), which clearly showed the need for powerful infantry that could withstand the French knights and the famous Swiss mercenaries. Prior to the Battle of Rocroix (1643), tercium was long considered invincible. But the author doesn’t mention Spain at all fellow Although the terrors have been smashing opponents throughout Europe for more than a century, and as if, in a collision with them, their "colorful caftans and hats" helped the archers, I can only guess.
      And yes, from the beginning of the 16th century, the Swedes entered the arena with their new type of army, which eventually became "better", displacing the thirds (as they had displaced the Swiss before)
      1. avt
        avt 4 July 2013 16: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: Corneli
        For more than a century they have been smashing opponents all over Europe and, as it were, in a collision with them, the archers were helped by their "colorful caftans and hats" I can only guess.

        Well, at least the fact that in our climatic conditions it is better to be dressed in a normally fastened caftan, pants and boots, and a demi-season hat, rather than in a cocked hat on the top, a tight tunic with buttons in the middle, knee-length trousers, stockings and boots.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 4 July 2013 16: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: avt
          Well, at least the fact that in our climatic conditions it is better to be dressed in a normally fastened caftan, pants and boots, and a demi-season hat, rather than in a cocked hat on the top, a tight tunic with buttons in the middle, knee-length trousers, stockings and boots.

          1. In winter, they would not have to fight
          2. And if the battle would be in Poland for example? (the Spaniards have been there, and it’s like nothing)
          3. And you confuse the clothes of the tertiary with the European infantry uniform of the 17+ century)
          http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/854/wrlv391.jpg
          HOW DOES THE INSERT WORK ????
          1. avt
            avt 4 July 2013 16: 45 New
            +2
            Quote: Corneli
            1. In winter, they would not have to fight

            The Swedes in the Baltic states also believed so, and after Petrusha’s “new-mannered” actions, they raked very little from Sheremetev, we didn’t need to fight in Gishpan land until 1937. So while we act in our own way, adopting other people's experience and adapting to ourselves, everything is fine with us, but until some wise guy in power picks up chicks, admires the Western paradise, and makes him fool from worshiping an enlightened civilizational geyropa according to the generally accepted rules of war. ass.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 4 July 2013 20: 16 New
              0
              Quote: avt
              The Swedes in the Baltic states also thought so, and after the Narva adventure of the “new mannered” actions of Petrusha, they raked very little from Sheremetev, we didn’t have to fight in Gishpan land until 1937

              WHAT? And the Baltic states have traditionally become "Russian land" (it is even strange that the Balts still do not believe this).
              And what about the wars on the Gishpan land, where is this? in Spain or Europe? “And if the battle would have been in Poland for example? (The Spaniards have been there, and it seems like nothing)” - is this “gishpaniya”? Or will you tell us that until 1937 there were Russians there and was not close?
              And by the way ... my 3 points, acre of winter, did you like? Nothing to parry?
      2. avt
        avt 4 July 2013 17: 40 New
        0
        Quote: Corneli
        But the author doesn’t mention fellow about Spain at all. Although, for more than a century, thirds have smashed opponents all over Europe and, as it were, when they ran into them, their "colorful caftans and hats" helped the archers, I can only guess.

        By the way, I forgot to mention that when I was a student in Moscow at the Historical Museum at an exhibition dedicated to that period, I saw a book - European instructions on how to conduct infantry combat of pikemen and musketeers. So this science was known in Russia and that is typical, despite our wretchedness, wildness and lack of education in European sciences "in print.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 4 July 2013 20: 27 New
          0
          Quote: avt
          But the author doesn’t mention fellow about Spain at all. Although, for more than a century, thirds have smashed opponents all over Europe and, as it were, when they ran into them, their "colorful caftans and hats" helped the archers, I can only guess.
          By the way, I forgot to mention that when I was a student in Moscow at the Historical Museum at an exhibition dedicated to that period, I saw a book - European instructions on how to conduct infantry combat of pikemen and musketeers. So this science was known in Russia and that is typical, despite our wretchedness, wildness and lack of education in European sciences "in print.

          AND? I wrote about the fact that the author stupidly "forgot" about the best army in the world at that time and wrote that in Europe there was only hired rabble (which excuse me, is complete nonsense and this is not about clothes). And more so: you, as a student (less than 400 years ago), saw in the museum a "European instruction" ... And what year? And about which army? And so on and so forth ... And where are the guarantees that even if there were such manuals, did they use them?
          P.S. "Dumb" Europeans, were afraid to imitate the "Roman Empire", built buildings, studied tactics, history and so on ... even the notorious "thirds" were voiced as "the revival of the Roman legions" (because there was an infantry fighting for all, military discipline, tactics ...) but for a thousand years this didn’t really help them! Because the wrong system was ... the wrong people ...- "dead knowledge."
          Can I read the manual on airplane flights right now and will it help me much in real flight? MB after reading a couple of books, I will become a pilot?
    2. Andrey57
      Andrey57 4 July 2013 16: 16 New
      +4
      Well, yes - yes, it was precisely because of the total "backwardness" of the Russian infantry, the "backwardness" for eleven years of Russian artillery and the "total backwardness" of the Russian military skill of the voivode Andrei Vorotynsky, in the village of Molod, knocked out exactly half of the Turkish army in 1572 in the year 120,000 240,000 of the total number, plus 30,000 of the Crimean Tatars, did not defeat, but completely destroyed, after this defeat, the Turks in Europe did not advance anywhere, and not a single Turk and Crimean Tatar returned from this campaign to Russia.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 4 July 2013 16: 38 New
        0
        Quote: Andrey57
        Well, yes - yes, it was precisely because of the total "backwardness" of the Russian infantry, the "backwardness" for eleven years of Russian artillery and the "total backwardness" of the Russian military skill of the voivode Andrei Vorotynsky, in the village of Molod, knocked out exactly half of the Turkish army in 1572 in the year 120,000 240,000 of the total number, plus 30,000 of the Crimean Tatars, did not defeat, but completely destroyed, after this defeat, the Turks in Europe did not advance anywhere, and not a single Turk and Crimean Tatar returned from this campaign to Russia.

        1. where does the "backwardness"?
        2. where does the Turks with the Tatars?
        3. To whom did you unsubscribe actually?
  19. knn54
    knn54 4 July 2013 14: 59 New
    +4
    History is like a nail on which you can hang anything. A. Dumas.
    And the Church also had a hand in the myth of backwardness - Byzantine priests believed / wrote that before the baptism of Rus, its population lived in complete savagery.
  20. Andrey57
    Andrey57 4 July 2013 16: 05 New
    +3
    Actually, the Tsar Cannon was not at all decorative, it was used in real combat conditions and shot with a stone gravel - a shotgun, therefore it was called a shotgun, the gun was mounted on a log house with an emphasis, who cares - you can examine the trunk from the inside, there are grooves from the stone gravel and the decorative carriage and decorative cores were made much later, all around the Kremlin there were 8 of such guns, they covered the gates of the fortress, and one shot of granite rubble in large numbers could inflict enormous damage on the enemy at each gate. So these were not "toy" guns at all.
  21. Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 17: 43 New
    +2
    The military fleet of Russia before Peter I was not at all. The first university in Russia appeared during the Northern War - after the accession of Estonia - Derpt (Tartu)


    I want to remind you that Mr. Tartu was formerly called Derpt, and before that - Yuryev was founded by Yaroslav the Wise. So the university in Russia was, but was lost along with the city during the time of troubles.

    That is, it turns out that this is a Russian city, after the turmoil and war of 1612, Russia lost. That is, the outlying principalities and vassal lands as a result of the turmoil fell away from the metropolis and everyone tried to grab as much as possible a piece. And Peter came to power in the metropolis of the empire, from which only the central regions remained. And then, very much affected by the war. That is why Russia did not have a fleet (lost with the coastal territories), that's why there were no guns (lost during the intervention). Does this not remind you of the present and the collapse of the Soviet Union? Only Smot was much more destructive than the collapse of the USSR. Peter actually came to the pipelines and did a lot to restore the state and return the lost territories. Whoever he is.
  22. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 4 July 2013 17: 58 New
    +1
    Question: who lagged behind the philosophical concept in science. Science, this concept is dynamically developing. In its history, world science has preserved worthy representatives of Russia. In almost all branches of science, Russian scientists have made a huge contribution. World science without Russian scientific thought does not exist. therefore think the question "who lagged behind"awkward.
  23. Drosselmeyer
    Drosselmeyer 4 July 2013 18: 20 New
    0
    Judging by the reviews, brainwashing in the style of Fomenko-folk-history is booming ...
  24. Drosselmeyer
    Drosselmeyer 4 July 2013 18: 21 New
    0
    Judging by the reviews, brainwashing in the style of Fomenko-folk-history is booming ...
  25. avt
    avt 4 July 2013 19: 24 New
    +2
    Quote: Drosselmeyer
    Judging by the reviews, brainwashing in the style of Fomenko-folk-history is booming ...

    All , laughing the last exhaust of the supporter of the European path of development, facts zero, there were only labels laughing , this is intelligent, when the intellect ends and the slogans against concrete facts do not roll - the main thing is to keep the pose of a carrier of something that the Asian barbarians cannot understand in the secret knowledge of the enlightened European. laughing
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 4 July 2013 20: 08 New
      0
      Quote: avt
      Everything, laughing the last exhaust of the supporter of the European path of development, the facts are zero, there are only shortcuts of laughing, this is intelligent, when the intellect ends and the slogans against concrete facts do not roll - the main thing is to keep the pose of a carrier of something that the Asian barbarians cannot understand in the secret knowledge of the enlightened Euroope. laughing

      But do you really need "facts" and even specific ones?) A little higher, I didn’t even write to you according to the article ... and I can write a lot more (in the article of “pianos”, well, UNMISCULAR!). Are you sure you want to listen to the "facts"? Mb to you in a new fashion, ala Zadornov-fomenko (proto-Ukrainians-rosa) will be easier?)
    2. Igarr
      Igarr 4 July 2013 20: 47 New
      +3
      No, Karharodon ... I'm a fool.
      I read the article, read the comments.
      If only the word in the article or in the comments would be tied to the fiN-constructions, to the new Chronology.
      And these .. experts - like a crowbar on the neck - Fomenko-folk-history, Fomenkovschina.
      Damn, yes salt he poured them on a member, or what?
      The best way is to pounce on HX. In business, not in business, in a subject, not on a subject - but to attack. Try to nibble.
      Just right, start using chlorophos.
      1. avt
        avt 4 July 2013 22: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: Igarr
        No, Karharodon ... I'm a fool.

        No it's ok
        Quote: hort
        long ago I somehow came across a book that described that under Grozny we had the largest cannon park in Europe. And it’s very interesting, where did all the guns go that Peter then ordered the bells to be transferred to the guns?

        And this clown already sews, in addition to Fomenkovism, both Great Great Duchy and the guns of Grozny
        Quote: Motors1991
        AVT, judging by your comments, you didn’t add a lot, we in Ukraine are also full of our own patriots, with ancient Ukrainians and other insects in your head. You asked the question where did the guns of Ivan the Terrible go?

        laughing laughing Moreover, this proponent of “classical” history didn’t even bother to read the works of his classics, but if he had read it, he would have learned that it was Ivan the Terrible who was called Grozny, and then the writers glued it to drive Ivan IV laughing Well, then the intellectual hysteria in full
        Quote: Corneli
        Do you really need "facts" and even specific ones?) Slightly higher, I didn’t even write to you, but according to the article

        If only one of the carriers of classical knowledge would deny that the Patriarch of Antioch did not go to Russia, and his son wrote notes in Syria laughing , or there that I went wrong with the loss of the Baltic Fleet, but there’s no Wikipedia link to this, specific, from the Navy’s archive. But it is necessary to hum, well let them hum. laughing
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 5 July 2013 00: 01 New
          0
          Quote: Corneli
          Quote: avt
          Everything, laughing the last exhaust of the supporter of the European path of development, the facts are zero, there are only shortcuts of laughing, this is intelligent, when the intellect ends and the slogans against concrete facts do not roll - the main thing is to keep the pose of a carrier of something that the Asian barbarians cannot understand in the secret knowledge of the enlightened Euroope. laughing
          But do you really need "facts" and even specific ones?) A little higher, I didn’t even write to you according to the article ... and I can write a lot more (in the article of “grand pianos”, well, IT IS IMMEDIATELY!). Are you sure you want to listen to the "facts"? MB to you in a new fashion, ala Zadornov-Fomenko (proto-Ukrainians-dew) will be easier?)


          Quote: avt
          Quote: Corneli
          Do you really need "facts" and even specific ones?) Slightly higher, I didn’t even write to you, but according to the article
          It’s at least one of the carriers of classical knowledge would deny that the Patriarch of Antioch didn’t go to Russia, and his son wrote notes in Syria laughing, or that I went to bed about the losses of the Baltic Fleet, but there’s no specific reference to it, Wikipedia from the Navy’s archive, but you need to buzz, let them buzz.

          My dear man, be so kind as to explain the course of your confused thought. Because I don’t understand at all how sideways to our dispute you dragged the “Patriarch of Antioch” and the loss of the “Baltic Fleet”. And why should I, as a "carrier of classical knowledge", have to refute some of your ideas, I just xs belay
  26. Motors1991
    Motors1991 4 July 2013 20: 30 New
    +1
    AVT, judging by your comments, you didn’t add a lot, we in Ukraine are also full of our own patriots with ancient Ukrainians and other insects in your head. Did you ask where Ivan the Terrible’s guns disappeared? Since then, almost 150 years have passed and then weapons were outdated, maybe not as fast as they are now. The 15th-century fixed guns poured onto modern, faster-firing and longer-range ones, and most importantly, they could be moved quickly enough on the campaign and on the battlefield. During the time of Ivan the Terrible, the army advanced and the outfit (artillery) was dragging behind, so if it was not possible to take the city or fortress out of the way, I had to wait weeks to bring the heavy artillery. For me, it’s a mystery how it was possible to deliver cannons weighing more than ten tons to the battlefield.
  27. Uzoliv
    Uzoliv 4 July 2013 20: 33 New
    +3
    Quote from the author: Ivan the Terrible began to create schools in Moscow Russia in 1550. Remarkably, there is no irony, it’s wonderful. And here are the years of the creation of universities in European cities: Padua - 1222, Bologna - 1088, Florence - 1349, Siena - 1357, Oxford - 1117, Cambridge - 1209, St. Andrews - 1410, Sorbonne - 1215, Salamanca - 1218, Coibra - 1290 , Pisa - 1343, Krakow - 1364, Heidelberg - 1386, Leuven - 1425, Uppsala - 1477.
    Our first higher educational institution can be called the Slavic-Greek-Latin Academy founded in 1687. Moreover, the name itself shows what she did at first - she trained translators from Greek and Latin, these are the main languages ​​of scientists of that time.
    A person develops when he communicates, as do nations. Europe - small, compact - the communication of peoples took place there faster, the penetration of cultures, the introduction of technical innovations, and the discussion of scientific concepts and hypotheses were faster. And we are geographically somewhat aloof. And despite the fact that we have a vibrant and distinctive culture, we cannot boil in our own juice, we also need an influx of fresh ideas. And our lag was not due to our laziness or dullness; these are quite objective factors - primarily geographical.
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 22: 26 New
      0
      1. tell you how schools differed from universities? universities could exist without schools.

      2. tell you what advertising is? and what is image? What prevented European institutions from completing a couple of hundred years? there, in Lviv, they began to produce beer and announced that it had already been since 1380. the oldest beer in Ukraine ...
  28. Djozz
    Djozz 4 July 2013 20: 44 New
    0
    I’m not a Fomenko stern, but I was always confused by the events and the correctness of the date 44g. BC And maybe it happened in a different chronology. How can you determine the year, the event that happened hell knows when!
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 4 July 2013 21: 02 New
      +1
      And you, my dear Djozz, did not try to read the works of Fomenko-Nosovsky? They are also called FiN.
      So in the first work - in order - they justify their mathematical apparatus by binding events to dates.
      In general, there are a lot of binding methods.
      Firstly, the zodiacs. This is when they indicate - the Sun in Virgo, Virgo in Fish. Fish - in Jo ... oh, not that.
      There is a radiocarbon analysis. This is when they take a piece of wood there, a piece of ceramics and consider - and how much there is Carbon-12 left. The method is worthless, an error of up to 300 million years - but use it.
      There are pollen from plants.
      but there is also the method of the cultural layer. At what depth did the crock be dug - such a year and culture.
      In short, there are many methods.
      Only Newton, Isaac who - wanted to find out some oddities in history - and suddenly discovered that SUCH a chronology requires - a catastrophic jump in the gravitational constant. The moon behaves somehow strangely ..
      But I. Newton did not write a new story. Therefore, we only know that an apple flew over his head with an apple.
      And now we still know that New Chronology is a successful commercial project. That's why ... unsuccessful and spiteful.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 4 July 2013 21: 23 New
        -1
        Quote: Igarr
        And now we still know that New Chronology is a successful commercial project. That's why ... unsuccessful and spiteful.

        It’s funny) Go to the librusek and read what bookstores are published right now (a hint, an alternative story, such as some kind of smart people got in the days of Kievan Rus, Peter 1, the Second World War and so on ... And of course, everyone won and Russia became TOP EMPIRE ON ALL THE PLANET!). This is called propaganda ... no more, no less (as in the USA, there is no mythology of ours, let's think of our own ... Schaub not to be "inferior" and all sorts of supermen-betmen, Templars-vampires-werewolves ... Schaub prove sho USA "homeland of elephants" and even Santa Claus invented in America). And about the "new chronology" and where is it successful? In Russia?)
        1. Ivan_Ivanov
          Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 23: 31 New
          0
          This is called propaganda ...


          And what? Everyone can do propaganda, and only Russia - no way?
  29. Djozz
    Djozz 4 July 2013 20: 57 New
    0
    No one can know with certainty when Christ was born.
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 4 July 2013 21: 07 New
      0
      Hello, have sailed.
      Any believer will tell you this.
      I will also say - at 00 hours 00 minutes 0000 of the year.
      1. Ivan_Ivanov
        Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 22: 32 New
        +1
        And here it is laughing

        at 00 hours 00 minutes 0001 tongue
        1. Igarr
          Igarr 5 July 2013 07: 52 New
          0
          And here is nooo wink
          At exactly 00 hours 00 minutes 01 second, 0001 began.
          Yes, it would be more accurate to write 23 hours 59 minutes 59 seconds.
          tongue
  30. Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 22: 42 New
    -1
    To detractors of Nicholas II

    Whose words are you repeating?

    Nicholas was “exposed” by the Bolsheviks, Mensheviks, essays, and other sholupen. Tell you, on whose money, on whose grants they existed? Whose agents were you? Yes, you yourself know. This is the liberal white bellies of the beginning of the 20th century. Almost 100 years have passed, and you continue to repeat the words invented by our opponents.

    (yes, ... the Bolshevik Trotsky and the Bolshevik Stalin are two big differences)
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 4 July 2013 22: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
      Nicholas was “exposed” by the Bolsheviks, Mensheviks, essays, and other sholupen. Tell you, on whose money, on whose grants they existed? Whose agents were you?

      Here are just these hired provocateurs denounced the former emperors. No less. ALWAYS and constantly. Including conspiracy with coups arranged. But the rest of the autocrats turned their rotters and heads away, and Nikolai ... was blown away, having lost the country. It was not even necessary to overthrow him; a banal setup with a false renunciation was enough. That’s the whole difference ... request
      1. Ivan_Ivanov
        Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 23: 03 New
        0
        The fact that he could not hold on to power (a bad crisis manager, as they would say now) does not negate the fact that he was an excellent ruler in non-crisis conditions. In addition, they were able to overthrow him also because the enemies of our country were also developing, gaining experience, progress did not stand still ...

        There, even under Stalin, they retreated to Moscow, and he, one might say, was overthrown by poisoning.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 4 July 2013 23: 07 New
          0
          Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
          he was a wonderful ruler in non-crisis conditions.

          But how many “non-crisis conditions” were there? Is it possible to be a great boxer not in the ring? wink
          Well, about Stalin, IMHO, it must be judged by the state in which the country fell to the one who replaced. Will we compare? wink
          1. Ivan_Ivanov
            Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 23: 20 New
            0
            Have you noticed that I consider Stalin to be a brilliant ruler?

            Again ... Even they managed to overthrow such a brilliant ruler.

            And on the account of Nikolai’s success ... Yes. They are not so obvious, but look at the statistics. In terms of population growth, growth in labor productivity, growth in prosperity, growth in industry, growth in energy capacities, and so on ... Of course, not the Stalin breakthrough, but the indicators are also very significant.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 5 July 2013 10: 35 New
              0
              Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
              They are not so obvious, but look at the statistics.

              Remember the old adage: “A bear can be taught to ride a bicycle, but will bear and benefit be in that bear?” No one denies the development of the country under his rule, and it would be strange to deny the obvious. It’s just that he “didn’t hold the situation”, the very force that he cherished and cherished, got out of control and blew the country into the trash. Actually, the same situation as Gorbachev. In production, this analogue is called safety precautions. If it is not observed, then instead of a brilliant result, something is obtained that was not at all envisaged by the project. Shitty shoes on the run, you can stumble. So he ... stumbled ... request
              1. sumcream56
                sumcream56 5 July 2013 15: 11 New
                -1
                The leadership of all the opposition pre-revolutionary parties in a huge proportion were Jews and ... Old Believers. The split of the Orthodox Church occurred under Alexei Mikhailovich. After the introduction of Nikonianism, all reforms were already possible. So, Peter the Great is a worthy son. As for the Jews, officially a second-class nation, a couple of settledness, etc.
              2. Ivan_Ivanov
                Ivan_Ivanov 5 July 2013 16: 02 New
                0
                Gorbachev deliberately ruined the country. Nikolai (like Stalin) was defeated in the fight against a very strong opponent. Catch the difference?

                Did Nikolai have the opportunity to win, resist, save the country? It seems to me not. The enemy was too strong, too experienced. Indeed, in addition to Nicholas, he knocked down yet 2 emperors and the Sultan.
  31. Edward
    Edward 4 July 2013 22: 50 New
    0
    "When the Moors ruled Europe" (Part 1)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SOwLIYy8hc
    Curious dok.film on the history of European peoples.
    It is also interesting that this is said by an English historian!
    Look, inquisitive. I think it’s useful to know. After all, what was told in the film shows the "forgetfulness" of Western Europeans.
    ...............................

    As for the history of the PEOPLES of Russia and Russia, or rather the Pra-peoples, you can wonder about what and why the famous Tour Heyerdahl was looking for in the Azov Sea in his last expedition?
    ..............................

    And how are things with Arkaim?
    And with the Belovsky excavations in Siberia?
    etc..
    ..............................

    Who was Alexander the Great if the Macedonians were southern Slavs? :)
    Moreover, we know that the Greeks of Macedonians considered barbarians and savages!
    .............................

    Were all the Moors a cross between Arabs and blacks if it is known that the Carthaginians were no different from the Romans in appearance? At the same time, we certainly remember that Carthage owned not only Sicily, but generally the whole north of Africa ..
    ............................

    The history of law, until it leads to fascism.
    And it seems to me that this is exactly what threatens our world.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 5 July 2013 00: 30 New
      0
      Quote: Edward
      Who was Alexander the Great if the Macedonians were southern Slavs? :)
      Moreover, we know that the Greeks of Macedonians considered barbarians and savages!

      Alexander was a Macedonian) The current was not by those Slavs who appeared there during the time of the Bulgarians, but by those who lived there a thousand years before and were relatives of the Greeks, possibly mixed with Celtic-Thracian blood. The Greeks considered many people barbarians and savages) For example, about the Spartans (which seems to be much more “Greek”)) they also said a lot of nasty things)
      Quote: Edward
      Were all the Moors a cross between Arabs and blacks if it is known that the Carthaginians were no different from the Romans in appearance? At the same time, we certainly remember that Carthage owned not only Sicily, but generally the whole north of Africa ..

      Another spurt for millennia belay Do you call Moors those who came in the 8th century on the second wave of the Arab conquest in Europe? Or the so-called ancient Libyan-Berber tribes who lived there back in the days of the Pharaohs? And what side did Carthage take? the Carthaginians are the colony of the Phoenicians (neighbors of the ancient Jews). To the local, ancient, population they have the same attitude as the Romans after them, and then the Vandals, and then the Arabs winked
      And let's look at your filmenets) I’m not the next heresy and fantasy flight)
      1. Edward
        Edward 6 July 2013 22: 05 New
        0
        I will answer both your posts, that is, to my subsequent one.

        Quote: Corneli
        Another spurt for millennia

        Quote: Corneli
        Alexander was a Macedonian) The current is not those that are Slavs and appeared there during the time of the Bulgarians, but those who lived there a thousand years before and
        .
        Quote: Corneli
        possibly mixed with Celtic-Thracian blood
        !!! :))))
        Quote: Corneli
        The Greeks considered many people barbarians and savages) For example, about the Spartans (which seems to be much more “Greek”)) they also said a lot of nasty things)
        And whom do you call Greeks? :)
        ..............................

        Quote: Corneli
        Or the so-called ancient Libyan-Berber tribes who lived there back in the days of the pharaohs?
        did they live there ?! or you just made a jerk)))
        ..............................

        Quote: Corneli
        And what side did Carthage take? the Carthaginians are the colony of the Phoenicians (neighbors of the ancient Jews). To the local, ancient, population they have the same attitude as the Romans after them, and then the Vandals, and then the Arabs
        When they say "ancient Greeks", "ancient Libyan-Berber tribes", "ancient Jews", etc., then they probably want to say something. Just what exactly?
        For you, as a connoisseur of the "ancient history" of the "ancient peoples", let us say the "ancient Greeks", it will undoubtedly be easy for all contemporaries to tell you about the "ancient Greek language!" :)

        Carthage is a civilization that existed in northern Africa for more than 100 years! Similar Civilization Cities, allowing themselves to travel Hannibal - through the strait of Gibraltar with a huge army, do not appear from nowhere, but even when destroyed, they do not disappear. You, as a historian, should be aware and understandable :)
        ...............................

        In the film, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SOwLIYy8hc, there are words not only "Arab" :) just look to the end.
        ...............................

        Speaking of Spain. Everyone loves flamenco and knows her other bullfighting symbol. Question:
        - Does Minoan culture have anything to do with this?
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 5 July 2013 01: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Edward
      "When the Moors ruled Europe" (Part 1)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SOwLIYy8hc
      Curious dok.film on the history of European peoples.
      It is also interesting that this is said by an English historian!
      Look, inquisitive. I think it’s useful to know. After all, what was told in the film shows the "forgetfulness" of Western Europeans.

      He looked ... What is there "forgetfulness"? Was there a Cordoban caliphate? Or were you surprised that the Spanish Inquisition burned their books and destroyed temples? So it is not surprising! The remnants of the defeated Visigoths and Suevs were engaged in reconquest for 500 years, hence fanaticism and dislike of the “Moors” were sho and unsurprising) And the stories about how “peaceful Arabs” didn’t conquer but carry protection and advancement are really something!) Martell and Byzantines simply gave them on the hump and in Europe (except Spain) the "Good, smart and peaceful" Arabs did not get.
      P.S. especially neighing with an Arab interview, I quote: "We came to Spain, not in order to fight its people (!). But in order to free (!) them from the oppression (!) of the Romans and other rulers." So, the Western Roman Empire fell in 476. Byzantines tried to conquer in 552-624. But the Arabs then came in 711!) Well, the other rulers are probably the local king, like there was no one else there) That is the "good Moors" decided to "liberate the people from the oppression" of the king! Just like in Syria, they’re trying to “free” you, even more abruptly.
  32. Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 4 July 2013 23: 39 New
    0
    An anecdote in the subject.

    Petka comes in the morning to the location. Drunk, money sticks out of all the feeds ...
    Vasily Ivanovich:
    - Petka, where did the money come from?
    - Have you won poker against the British?
    -?
    - Well, one said that he had a flush and everyone put down the cards. I asked why not showing? And they answered me that all the gentlemen are here and it is customary for them to take a word. Here I got a map and flooded.
    ===================================

    It may already be enough for gentlemen to especially believe in the word heb .. to the guys (what did you think?) In the information war ...
  33. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 5 July 2013 01: 05 New
    +1
    Not that funny. Sad Gas scarf in the early 17th century? Hm. It’s sad. Developing the idea of ​​Russian greatness by humiliating other nations, of course, success in a multinational country cannot be achieved. As an oriental person, I understand one and the important mistake of all politicians, beginning with Prince Vladimir the Red Sun. The Russian man is not a European, but an Asian. If you do not believe it, ask any European. There is even a term - Russian cheekbones. So, craving for Europe created problems, like the ugly duckling. But does the Russian person need this, that is, do these petty European ducks need the broad nature of the Russian handsome swan? Berdyaev said something like this: "Europe is facing America, we are facing Europe, so where are we looking?" Of course, the future of Russia is not with Europe, which wants to put a Russian bear in a cage, but in a passionate jump into a developed multinational society. Look - in the USA there are no fewer nations, but there is no this frantic chauvinism. Russia must learn from the mistakes of the past. Nations cannot be destroyed, but they can be made patriots of Russia, if you give them freedom of national development. Do not be afraid of this, because they are the same citizens of the Russian Federation, they have the same rights. In the 2nd world non-Russian heroes of the USSR there were many. Alexander Matrosov, Talgat Begeldinov, Alia Moldagulova, there is not enough paper to list. But on the German side, about a million Soviet citizens fought. They, including, fought for the freedom of their national homeland.
    The path of Russia lies not in the arms of Europe and the USA, but in the realization of its multinational greatness. And then it becomes clear that the great history of Asia, which gave the world many technical and humanitarian discoveries, is our common history. Http://topwar.ru/engine/data/emoticons/hi.gif
  34. Xnumx kopeek
    Xnumx kopeek 5 July 2013 03: 27 New
    -1
    Quote: Asan Ata
    Not that funny. Sad Gas scarf in the early 17th century? Hm. It’s sad. Developing the idea of ​​Russian greatness by humiliating other nations, of course, success in a multinational country cannot be achieved. As an oriental person, I understand one and the important mistake of all politicians, beginning with Prince Vladimir the Red Sun. The Russian man is not a European, but an Asian. If you do not believe it, ask any European. There is even a term - Russian cheekbones. So, craving for Europe created problems, like the ugly duckling. But does the Russian person need this, that is, do these petty European ducks need the broad nature of the Russian handsome swan? Berdyaev said something like this: "Europe is facing America, we are facing Europe, so where are we looking?" Of course, the future of Russia is not with Europe, which wants to put a Russian bear in a cage, but in a passionate jump into a developed multinational society. Look - in the USA there are no fewer nations, but there is no this frantic chauvinism. Russia must learn from the mistakes of the past. Nations cannot be destroyed, but they can be made patriots of Russia, if you give them freedom of national development. Do not be afraid of this, because they are the same citizens of the Russian Federation, they have the same rights. In the 2nd world non-Russian heroes of the USSR there were many. Alexander Matrosov, Talgat Begeldinov, Alia Moldagulova, there is not enough paper to list. But on the German side, about a million Soviet citizens fought. They, including, fought for the freedom of their national homeland.
    The path of Russia lies not in the arms of Europe and the USA, but in the realization of its multinational greatness. And then it becomes clear that the great history of Asia, which gave the world many technical and humanitarian discoveries, is our common history. Http://topwar.ru/engine/data/emoticons/hi.gif
    -
    Jews, and not Russians, are just humiliating foreigners. -And they are building their "greatness" on children. Have you already made Vladimir a member of the European Parliament? -
    --- "ask any European" - Yes, and Wi, as an Asian, there are called "Russian."
    is there no chauvinism in the usa? is Jewish. -R. can not be compared with artificial education, as well.
  35. Yura
    Yura 5 July 2013 09: 24 New
    +1
    Thanks for the article is very interesting.
  36. Opera
    Opera 5 July 2013 10: 00 New
    0
    Quote: Sour
    Now "official science" - this is Zadornov and Fomenko and the like. It is their waste paper that shelves of bookstores are littered. But serious historical literature is not available. It is sometimes published in print runs of 500-700 copies throughout Russia. I have to order such books, I came across this more than once. But to buy "alternative" or find it on the Internet is not a problem. Someone needs it. "Self-educate" is also necessary wisely, and not from Zadornov’s films.

    Here you are, Mr. Sour, which is somehow painfully muddy! Well, what do you write the same thing from time to time ?! I was ready to help you get "serious literature" since you are so upset about this and you will help me get "not serious" beautifully published works by Fomenko in return, and you’re not in any way !!!
    Regarding slavery, serfdom, what you write is generally impudent Western propaganda! Well, you want to do all the bad things for the West in Russia as well, but all the good things for the same Russia are unattainable! It goes a little weak for you! On this occasion, Pushkin remarkably answered Radishchev! Very reasonably and clearly - how could a Russian serf peasant for example earn! There are a lot of works on this subject not only by Russian scholars who do not leave stone unturned with attempts to compare serfdom with slavery! This is a blatant lie and another attempt to falsify history!
    I will not give many examples here, I will only say that the slave in the United States was the full property of the slave owner with all the ensuing consequences! In Russia, between the serf and landowner stood the state! The code of laws of that time contains articles (not one) about how the landowner should take care of the serfdom, etc. You write that the landowners circumvented these laws - I have no doubt in such cases, but it was already a crime!
    And you, dear colleagues, who are interested in reading Pushkin’s answer to Radishchev about serfdom and don’t listen to different acidic and muddy ones anymore!
    1. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 5 July 2013 13: 08 New
      0
      Serfdom is the history of Russia, its shameful part. If not slavery, when the state of the landowner was evaluated not only by the estate, but also by the souls (some dead))))? Just just 150 years ago in Russia, slavery was abolished, this shameful fact left a heavy imprint on the Russian people.
      1. Opera
        Opera 6 July 2013 09: 44 New
        0
        The elderberry garden, and the uncle in Kiev!
        You forgot about the genocide yet!
        1. Asan Ata
          Asan Ata 6 July 2013 11: 24 New
          +1
          The Ukrainian language is teeming with Turkic words, it is not so clearly expressed in Russian, since modern Russian was formed in the 17-20 centuries in an attempt to unify it and bring it closer to European languages. "I Am the Tsar" - from Turkic translates "Call me king, by the way. Ivan, who does not remember kinship - this is how the Russian man expressed himself about himself.
          1. Edward
            Edward 6 July 2013 22: 20 New
            0
            Quote: Asan Ata
            Turkic words

            and what are the Turkic Words? I ask not out of idle curiosity and certainly not out of a desire to stupidly and blindly argue and mock. This is incredibly interesting to me, and if you tell something about the so-called Türkic Languages, their history, roots, etc., then I will be greatly obliged to you!
            Where did the name "Turkic Languages" come from?
            1. Asan Ata
              Asan Ata 8 July 2013 20: 57 New
              0
              I am not a historian, not a linguist, but, let's say, knowing Kazakh, I can understand Azerbaijani, Turkish, Bashkir, Uzbek, Kyrgyz, Turkmen, a number of Caucasian languages, Nogai, Karakalpak, Uyghur and even Hungarian, and a bunch of other Turkic languages ​​to a greater or lesser extent . In the 12th century, in a six-volume edition of the grammar of the Turkic language, Mahmud Kashgari mentioned that the correct Turkic language should not use Persian words and the Turkic people living in the correct Turkic language live on the rivers Ili, Ishim, Edil (Volga). As you understand, these are the tribes from which the Kazakhs formed a community in the 15th century, therefore, the Kazakh language is most understood by all Turks. The Turkic language was the main language of the Silk Road, many Italian traders mentioned this, moreover, they did not recommend going on a journey without knowing the Turkic dialect. Studies of Hungarian linguists and anthropologists (Hungary, aka Hungaria, the country of the Huns) give good reason to say that the Huns spoke Turkic. By the way, the Bulgarians are also Turks, only they have lost their language. The Bulgarian brought Khan Asparuh to the Balkans, fleeing from pressure from the east. Even in the English language there are many Turkic words that came there, apparently with the Sarmatians. The Türkic language had an alphabet, which is usually called the Orkhon-Yenisei runic letter, few monuments of this letter can be read with confidence even today. The runes were lost in connection with the adoption of Islam (there was an order to destroy, erase them from historical monuments after the adoption of Islam, as pagan) . On the stele of the kagan of the 7th century Turks Kultegin, an inscription has been preserved that reads: "O great Turkic people! Live and glory in the Ages!" By the way, their pre-Muslim faith, Tengrianism, still remained with the Türks. For us, Kazakhs, this was expressed in the local specificity of Islam, customs, Hungarians, for example, very seriously return to Tengrianism, they have Tengrian holidays, customs. In short, there are links to documents mentioned by me on the net.
              1. Edward
                Edward 14 July 2013 20: 10 New
                0
                Quote: Asan Ata
                I am not a historian, not a linguist, but, let's say, knowing Kazakh, I can understand Azerbaijani, Turkish, Bashkir, Uzbek, Kyrgyz, Turkmen, a number of Caucasian languages, Nogai, Karakalpak, Uyghur and even Hungarian, and a bunch of other Turkic languages ​​to a greater or lesser extent .
                I’m sorry, Asan Ata, but could you give an example of how “mother”, “father”, “grandmother”, “grandfather”, “son”, “daughter” sound in these languages ​​- that is, an example of the sound of those closest to anyone a person of concepts (almost NAME, because the child only then finds out that the grandmother or grandfather turns out to have a name)? It is possible in your transcription, but it is possible on the example of other people ..

                Quote: Asan Ata
                In the 12th century, in a six-volume edition of the grammar of the Turkic language, Mahmud Kashgari mentioned that the correct Turkic language should not use Persian words and the Turkic people living in the correct Turkic language live on the rivers Ili, Ishim, Edil (Volga).
                Can you, dear Asan Ata, say that exactly what it says in the six-volume book sounds like you quoted ("Turkic", "correct Turkic", "Turki", "Persian words"? Could you give a link to the source?

                My previous question
                Quote: Asan Ata
                and what are the Turkic Words?
                while I consider unresolved (in the sense of unrequited).
  37. Opera
    Opera 7 July 2013 09: 36 New
    -2
    Quote: Asan Ata
    The Ukrainian language is teeming with Turkic words, it is not so clearly expressed in Russian, since modern Russian was formed in the 17-20 centuries in an attempt to unify it and bring it closer to European languages. "I Am the Tsar" - from Turkic translates "Call me king, by the way. Ivan, who does not remember kinship - this is how the Russian man expressed himself about himself.

    )))) What did you mean?! Confused the site ?! The wrong comments were put in the wrong place ?! You have to be careful!
  38. Edward
    Edward 7 July 2013 12: 21 New
    +1
    My position on the history of Russia, its peoples in the past and present, as well as on world history in general, is as follows:
    - over all, so to speak, riddles of history, people have worked. That is why they (puzzles) appeared, appear and of course will appear.
    - to find a real FACT of history, outside of subjective distortions, both internal and external, outside of imposed assessments is an incredible success. But even greater luck (at least not less) will be the correct, PURE assessment, interpretation of the fact found.

    I will explain what was said on the example of the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945.
    All of us - living in the USSR, now munching in Russia and the countries of the former USSR, are incredibly indignant at all of us that in other countries they either hush up the USSR’s contribution to the VICTORY or distort the scale of the USSR’s efforts in this war.
    In most Western media, they talk only about their victories and successes.
    Already today, in our time, the young generation in the West either does not know the truth about that war, or with surprise, almost by accident, learns that the USSR was the main smith of victory, so to speak.

    And now let’s imagine for a moment that for some reason, only the Western media will remain in the memory of generations ... And after 100 years, the TRUTH will not be found, and all those who will question the media will not look from this world, fools and idiots.

    Friends, and now which of you can say in the affirmative that this has not happened before?
    1. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 8 July 2013 21: 34 New
      0
      You quite rightly touched on this side of the formation of historical information. Almost every ruler is trying to at least embellish a side of history that is convenient for him. Unfortunately, capitalism is false by nature, therefore the preservation of historical monuments, documents, eyewitness accounts should not only be stored, but popularized at least in textbooks. You probably read Ray Bradbury's 451 Fahrenheit? So there they used a method of storing information, which the Kazakhs have used since time immemorial. When the author performed a song poem, somewhere, for example, at a wedding to the accompaniment of dombra, everyone tried to memorize it by heart, that was the rule. Then they rehashed, and so it went on throughout the steppe. Well then, you say. So, such a custom led to the preservation of a uniform language without dialects in all 2.7 million square kilometers of Kazakhstan! Moreover, oral folklore demanded knowledge of the literary language from everyone and, therefore, the whole people owned the literary language. Compare: modern languages ​​in the common dictionary have a purely everyday set of words, while the literary beauty of the language is gathering dust on the shelves of libraries. Sorry, that a little carried away.