Military Review

Disease growth and a course for Tsushima. Multidirectional trends in naval construction in Russia

67
Disease growth and a course for Tsushima. Multidirectional trends in naval construction in Russia

In mid-May, an operational formation of the Russian Navy was formed in the Mediterranean, which is now increasingly referred to as a “squadron”. It was based on the large anti-submarine ship Admiral Panteleev, large landing ships (BDK) Admiral Nevelskoy and Peresvet, the rescue tug Fotiy Krylov and the tanker Pechenga. The group also includes ships and vessels of the Baltic, Northern and Black Sea fleets. The postmaster PM-138 (BSF) came to Syrian Tartus, which replaced the PM-2012, which had been there since October. And in the Gulf of Aden, which is separated from the Mediterranean Sea by the Suez Canal and the Red Sea, FIR "Fearless" (BF), the rescue tug "Eugene Khorev" (BF) and the tanker "Yelnya" (BF) carry anti-piracy service.


WHAT IS IT LOOKING FOR IN A COUNTRY FAR

The Russian fleet appeared in the Mediterranean in 1769 year. The second coming of our Navy to the Mediterranean took place in the second half of the 50 of the last century, when, after the Suez crisis, Soviet submarines settled in the Albanian Vlora Bay, which tickled nerves against the enemies of the USSR in the Cold War. At the same time, our country had allies in the turbulent Middle East. Since then, our Navy began to be present in the Mediterranean on a permanent basis.

A little later, the 5-I Mediterranean squadron was formed, whose main task was to detect and destroy in the event of war American nuclear-powered submarines with ballistic missiles aimed at the Soviet Union and aircraft carriers whose aircraft could carry atomic bombs to the southern regions of the country. Here, too, everything is logical and clear.

But what to do now operational connection of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea? It is surprising that the intention to create an operational ship group, albeit a small one, is still in the Indian Ocean. Delhi makes no secret that they want to see this ocean with their “lake”. And the Indians there by and large do not need neither Americans, nor Chinese, nor Russians.

The other side of the same coin is the ability of the Russian fleet provide today with the necessary forces these same “operational units”. It’s very tight. Combat surface ships (BNKs) of the ocean zone of the Russian Navy are easy to recount. There are only 28 of them. This is a heavy aircraft carrier cruiser "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov" project 11435, which needs major repairs and modernization; nuclear missile cruiser "Peter the Great" project 11442; three Project 1164 missile cruisers, one of which is under repair; eight large Project 1155 anti-submarine ships, one of which is in a sludge awaiting modernization; BOD Admiral Chabanenko, project 11551; BPC "Kerch" of project 1134B, which has been part of the Navy since 1974, that is, it has already served the due date; eight project 956 destroyers, of which five are in sludge; two patrol ships of project 11540; two TFR projects 1135 and 1135M, which have been in service since 1980 and 1981, respectively; TFR “Shrewd” of project 01090 - he has been in the ranks of the Navy for 44 years, that is, he is the absolute record holder in the “length of service” among the BNK not only in Russia, but throughout the world. But even this arithmetic does not give a complete picture. Three destroyers of project 956 - the “Admiral Ushakov” of the Northern Fleet, the “Fast” of the Pacific Fleet and the “Persistent” of the Baltic Fleet - do not dare to send the command of the Navy on long trips, because it is not without reason that they are afraid of their capricious boiler turbine installations (close relatives of those flew last year on the tests of the Vikramaditya aircraft carrier modernized for the Indian Navy) at any time can fail. BOD "Kerch" for many years does not leave Sevastopol. The Black Sea TFRs of project 1135 / 1135M are also scary to let go far because of their advanced age. But they still sometimes run to the Mediterranean Sea, as well as the “Savvy” modernization that took place in 1997. As a result, if you subtract all the "orphans and wretched", 16 warships are suitable for long-distance service in the seas and oceans, that is, conditionally, four for each fleet. Among them, the relatively “young” include Peter the Great (in service since 1998), the BPC Admiral Chabanenko (1999), the TFR Ustrashimy (1990) and Yaroslav the Wise (2009). Moreover, the “Undaunted” is exploited simply mercilessly. It has been chasing the seas without average repair for 23 years. It doesn’t even have time to install the Uranus anti-ship missile system put in the state.

Who will provide reliable protection for Russian nuclear-powered missile carriers on their deployment routes? Is it because of this that the Russian SSBN, according to the Federation of American Scientists, relying on intelligence sources, performed only five sea trips to combat service in 2012. Who will protect the waters adjacent to the Russian coast and naval bases? After all, the situation with the ships of the near-sea zone and the protection of the water area is by no means better.

It is because of extreme poverty that large landing ships are also included in the “operational formations”, which are also not young, but are strong enough and seaworthy. On long-distance marches, they seem to denote warships of the main classes absent from the Russian Navy. But, of course, they are no warriors themselves and need to escort BNK. We should not forget that most of the Russian BDK - Polish construction of the 775 project (15 of 19 units), that is, it is necessary to “beat” their lifespan with care, it is not forever, and long-distance crossings, for example, from the Far East to the Mediterranean Sea, contribute to engine wear. Or after us even a flood?

NOBODY WILL TELL THE TRUTH TO THE PRESIDENT

Russian President Vladimir Putin 11 April held a video conference with top managers of Rosneft. Its head, Igor Sechin, reported to the head of state that the need of the largest Russian and global oil company for offshore engineering for offshore projects is 394 units. These include 15 exploration platforms, 106 mining platforms, 16 seismic survey vessels and more 200 support vessels. It was assumed that the whole of this fleet will be built by the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC). But, according to Sechin, USC is not able to meet the needs of Rosneft. He certainly knows the situation, if only because for several years he headed the board of directors of USC.

Alas, no one will tell the truth to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin, that the program of military shipbuilding approved by him before 2020 cannot be completed either. If you manage to commission at least half of the ships and vessels intended for the Navy, it will be a great success.

Recall that this program was launched in 2011, and on July 30, 2012, Vladimir Putin, during a visit to Sevmash, outlined its quantitative parameters. According to him, by the end of the decade, the fleet should receive eight nuclear-powered strategic missile submarines, 16 multi-purpose atomic and non-nuclear submarines, 51 combat surface ship - all 75 units. All submarines, as well as 49 BNK will be assembled at domestic shipyards, two more naval helicopter Mistral will be received from France.

10 January this year, the president during a visit to the cruiser "Peter the Great" once again returned to the shipbuilding program. He said that before 2020, more than 100 new surface and submarine ships of various classes would be added to the fleet. At the same time, the Supreme Commander expressed confidence that the program would be necessarily executed.

Finally, 11 of March of this year, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, at the conference call, informed that by the end of 2020, the Russian Navy will receive 24 submarines and 54 surface ships, that is, 78 units. We will not pay attention to some discrepancies in numbers. Undoubtedly, the program is impressive, but by no means super-ambitious, as it is sometimes presented. It can be called optimal in relation to the real tasks that the Russian Navy is designed to solve, and according to industry capabilities, if you take up the business without the traditional Russian buildup and in a businesslike manner. But harmonious work did not work.

Since 2011, the strategic naval submarine cruiser Yury Dolgoruky of the 955 project (2012), the Savvyotny corvette (2011) and the Boky (2013) project of the 20380 project, have problems and we are let's say below, the patrol ship (so on the site of the Zelenodolsk Shipbuilding Plant) Dagestan project 11661K, two small artillery ships of the 21630 project (2011 – 2012) and three anti-sabotage boats of the 21980 project (2010 – 2012). For three years - only nine units, mostly small and medium displacement.

What are the reasons for the low rate of shipbuilding? A lot of them. Here is the disorganization of the military shipbuilding mechanism, and the practice of financing defense orders that does not correspond to the State Armaments Program. When Anatoly Serdyukov was the Minister of Defense, the domestic industry was declared almost the main enemy of the department he headed. In a certain sense, it was the Ministry of Defense that, if not torpedoed, then put a leg in the shipbuilding program. Under the flag of the struggle to save every state ruble, the signing of contracts was delayed, and when they were concluded, the real financing was inhibited. But it is known that naval equipment annually rises in price by 7 – 9%. And in order to prevent cost overruns and minimize damage, the proportion of work performed under the contract should not be less than twice the rate of appreciation. That is, the less time the ship spends on the stocks and on the completion, the cheaper it costs the state. In our country, even small ships are often built much longer than battleships. That is why, from time to time, the head of state accounted for resolving contradictions between the Ministry of Defense and industry in manual mode. Which, of course, is not normal.

Anatoly Serdyukov is not on Arbat Square, but his work lives. There is no need to go far for examples. By the end of April this year, as the director of the armament department of the Russian Defense Ministry, Anatoly Gulyaev, reported, the long-term contracts of the military department in the Navy line barely exceed 25%. And after all, shipbuilding needs more money than other industries. Or another, more tangible example. This summer, the frigate “Admiral Grigorovich”, the lead ship of the 11356Р project, is expected to be launched. But it was not until March that the Baltic Shipyard began to manufacture for it and two other ships of this project the launchers for firing Caliber missiles being built at the Baltic Yantar plant. They will be ready by the end of the year. As before, no one knew that launchers would be needed for these frigates. And now let's go hunting - and feed the dogs? And it is unlikely that “Admiral Grigorovich” will be able to be put into operation in the summer of next year, as planned. These are the "little things" inhibit the implementation of the shipbuilding program. But there are more large-scale problems.

DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH US "BULAVOY"

“There are no questions to the Bulava,” Vladimir Popovkin, the head of Roscosmos, said recently, thus guaranteeing the high reliability of the newest strategic missile system of submarines. I would like to believe it. But it is puzzling why from December 23 2011 of the year, that is, for almost a year and a half, not a single launch of SLBMs has been made. There were a total of 18, of which six were unsuccessful, and two more were recognized as partially successful. That is, only 10 starts - fully accomplished. For comparison: during the development of the Trident 2 SLBM, the United States carried out 28 missile launches, of which four ended in failure, and one was recognized as “nontest”, that is, in our opinion, partially successful (according to weather conditions, the rocket went beyond the safety corridor and was undermined ). After the introduction of the Trident-2 into service, the US and British Navy nuclear submarines performed 1989 successive launches of this missile in a row since December 143. To test its reliability, up to six starts are made annually. Is the Mace better than the Trident 2?

In January of this year, we were told: "The Bulava" was adopted by the Navy together with the submarine "Yuri Dolgoruky". Now it turns out that this is not entirely true. As the general director of the FSUE “NPO Avtomatika” Leonid Shalimov told the Urals Regional Information Center ITAR-TASS (“TASS-Ural”), it is planned to complete one or two SLBM launches by the end of 2013. These shots will be “confirmation of the consignment”, since so far the “Bulava” has been commissioned only in pilot operation. In the upcoming trials, the launching of these missiles will be carried out from Moscow. “If such a team passes from the General Staff to the launch pad of the boat, giving start to automatic pre-launch operations and subsequent launch of the rocket, this will be a weighty reason for adopting the Bulava missile system into service,” said Leonid Shalimov.

In other words, the "Mace" has not yet been adopted. And for this we need "good reasons". But the former general director of the Moscow Institute of Thermal Engineering (MIT), Yuri Solomonov, who is now the general designer of the complex, vowed to surrender it to the fleet in 2005 year. And all because of the lack of resources from industry and funds from the Ministry of Defense at the time MIT decided to beat the competition by promising to make a new missile on the cheap - based on the ground Topol and abandoning the sea bench tests. As a result, we had to actually create a new SLBM and, at the insistence of the fleet, re-equip the nuclear-powered cruiser TK-208 "Dmitry Donskoy" into a test submarine. All this was very expensive. Significant interruptions in the Bulava tests are not by accident alarming. It seems that the complex is still far from perfect.

Unfortunately, with the new weapons systems for the Navy in general, there is a critical situation. We have already mentioned the problems of the Corvette "Savvy". He was accepted into the fleet in the 2011 year. But until now, its main anti-aircraft defense, the Redut air defense missile system developed by the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern, is not capable of hitting targets. Radar "Furke" general detection can not cope with the targeting of missiles, and, apparently, can not cope. The Corvette "Boky" - the second serial ship of the 20380 project - before joining the Navy 16 in May, completed a series of state tests. He shot out all kinds weapons except "Reduta." And what does the absence of air defense systems mean? The fact that this ship is defective, sky-finished, since it cannot protect itself from an air strike. By the way, under the Ship Regulations, no one has the right to send a ship to the sea with a faulty materiel. A couple of years ago there was information that the Fazotron-NIIR corporation is creating a new radar for corvettes, but so far nothing is known about the results of this work.

There is great doubt about the readiness of the more sophisticated and sophisticated “Polyment-Redut” air defense missile system, which should be equipped with the latest 22350 frigates. The director general of the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern, Vladislav Menshchikov, promised that work on it would be completed before the end of this year. In this little hard to believe. This complex should have been armed with the Novik frigate of the 12441 project, built at the Yantar Baltic plant in the 1997 year, but still unfinished due to the unavailability of Polyment Redoubt and a number of other weapon systems. Then they decided to convert it into a training ship called Borodino, but Anatoly Serdyukov considered it redundant, and the hull, into which they invested hundreds of millions of rubles, was left to rust.

By the way, recently the High Command of the Navy decided to complete the construction of the Borodino ship. It will be used to train officers to handle new types of weapons entering the fleet. There is a plan for the restructuring of another, also unfinished and abandoned on Yantar, patrol ship "Fog" of the 11540 project into an experimental ship for developing promising models of anti-submarine weapons.

The command of the Navy is also taking the initiative to modernize the large anti-submarine ships of the 1155 project, which now act as the main "actors" of the Russian fleet in distant sea and ocean zones. There are eight of them, and taking into account Admiral Chabanenko, nine. It is supposed to equip these BOD with universal Caliber-NK missile systems, Polyment-Redut air defense system, X-NUMX-mm A-130 artillery systems capable of firing guided missiles. That is, they will become multipurpose ships. However, the service life of some of these BODs is close to 192 years. Therefore, before embarking on modernization, it is necessary to thoroughly examine the state of their bodies and mechanisms. How much longer can they serve after the "plastic surgery"? And, of course, it will not be possible to meet the 30 billion rubles. for upgrading each ship as planned. In the best case, “European-quality repair” will cost 2 – 10 billion rubles. on the case.

A big problem remains ship power plants. The boiler-turbine ones are already a relic of the past, domestic diesels do not meet the requirements of the time and often simply break even on new ships, and gas-turbine power plants are not produced at all in our country or are assembled in experimental single copies. With this we need to do something. The first sign that gives hope can be the launch in Penza of a joint venture between the well-known Finnish company Vyartsilya and ZAO Transmashholding with the annual release of 200 – 300 diesel engines, including ship engines.

WHY OUTSIDERS ARE LEADERS

But back to the problems of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, which Igor Sechin touched on in his report to the president. According to the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, USC completed 2012 a year with a loss of 6 billion rubles. (in fairness it should be said that the activities of the United Aircraft Building Corporation were unprofitable). At the same time, USC received a large package of government orders and increased the volume of completed orders in monetary terms. But besides the "Yuri Dolgoruky", which was built 16 years, the corporation did not transfer a single combat ship to the fleet.

In general, in recent years, a curious trend has emerged in the field of military shipbuilding. Almost all surface ships, boats and auxiliary ships were built and surrendered to the Navy and the Coast Guard of the Russian Federation by enterprises, which we will call "outsiders", that is, not included in the USC. These primarily include the St. Petersburg shipbuilding company "Almaz" and the marine plant "Almaz", Zelenodolsk plant named after A.M. Gorky, Leningrad plant "Pella", Rybinsk shipbuilding plant "Vympel", Yaroslavl Shipyard. The Coast Guard of the Border Guard Service of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation, with the exception of a few units that are being built in the Far East, orders all other ships and boats from “free-standing” companies. Last year, the Navy also received surface combat units exclusively from "outsiders".

When I asked the representative of one of the ordering departments why this was happening, he said bluntly that it was easier to work with “outsiders”. With them less red tape, approvals, the quality of work performed is higher, and the final product is cheaper. It is known that large corporations are difficult to manage, more costly compared to other enterprises and often unprofitable.

And one more important circumstance. Stalin can hardly be attributed to fans of the capitalist mode of production. However, he, who had such powerful levers to stimulate creative and other creative activities, such as prisons, camps, torture and death threats, created in the defense-industrial sphere many design bureaus and enterprises that competed with each other for life and death. The competitive moment has always been and remains the driving force of the progress of the economy, and the monopolies hold down the forward movement. USC, of ​​course, played a positive role in the rehabilitation of the shipbuilding industry. But now we need a different mechanism for its functioning, aimed at accelerating high-quality creative labor, and not at increasing the number of bureaucratic chairs. Under the existing system, there is no point in expecting a radical change for the better from a change in the management of a shipbuilding holding.

SEXVERSTER AT THEM, OPTIMIZATION AT US

The second wave of the global economic crisis forces states to sequester, or, more simply, cut military budgets. The United States and NATO countries are also forced to pursue military spending. And Russia will not escape this fate. Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu has already instructed the commanders of the clans and branches of the Armed Forces to prepare proposals for revising a number of programs. It is argued that we are not talking about reducing military spending, but about optimizing them. Well, this may be called so.

The Ministry of Defense has already abandoned plans to build a second pair of Mistrals. It was also announced that on the SSBN of the 955 project, instead of the previously planned 20 launchers of the Bulava SLBMs, there would be 16. It is explainable. 20-missile "Borei" is actually a new project. For their construction, testing and entry into the fighting will take more time and money. It is easier to build a ninth submarine with 16 launchers, rather than undertaking to build other type of boats.

But the rejection of the construction of the eighth multi-purpose nuclear submarine 885 is puzzling. As acknowledged by foreign experts, these submarines will pose the greatest threat of all ships under construction in Russia for NATO and China’s naval forces. Or is it staked on the fact that fifth-generation submarines, which design bureaus have begun to design, will be better and cheaper? Better - maybe, but cheaper - hardly.

Obviously, it is necessary to abandon the modernization of the heavy nuclear-powered cruiser “Admiral Nakhimov”, which in 1997 was removed from the operational strength of the Navy and has actually remained in sludge since. It does not make sense to make cosmetic changes on it, and turning into a missile defense ship is expensive and premature, since the Prometheus PRO-500 missile system only exists on paper so far and it will take a lot of time to work it out. And as we know from the experience of "Reduce," the process is painful and difficult. Yes, and one missile cruiser - in the sea is not a warrior. It is unlikely that he will be helped by three or four supere-destroyers that are planned to be built for the fleet in the future. There is no doubt that the Northern PKB can design such ships, but now the industry is hardly capable of filling them with appropriate weapons. Until automatic combat control systems like the American Aegis and interceptor missiles like the SM-3 IIA and SM-3 IIB appear in Russia, it’s not practical to take on the creation of these destroyers.

Meanwhile, the dreams of the superBN of the ocean zone do not have the best effect on the implementation of the shipbuilding program before the 2020 year. After all, in order to engage in the creation of such ships, it is required to withdraw appropriations from some projects. In early March, there were reports that the Navy decided to limit the construction of the corvettes of the 20385 project (an upgraded version of the 20380 project) to one unit. The reasons? The high cost and redundancy of weapons through the introduction of a universal missile complex "Caliber-NK", capable of striking surface, submarine and coastal targets at long distances.

Let's see. Yes, the cost of the corvette project 20385 above the prototype. But he has another weapon - more powerful, as well as other electronic equipment. According to a number of sources, MTU diesels are supposed to be used on the ship. They are more expensive than domestic ones, but at least they won't break. It’s ridiculous to talk about redundancy of weapons. Just look at the map. In the North, and in the Baltic, and in the Far East, there are plenty of targets for the “Calibrov”. In the end, common sense seems to have prevailed. At the Northern shipyard, metal is being cut for the second hull of the 20385 corvette.

Some events in the Russian shipbuilding are generally difficult to explain. Three times in six months, the laying of the frigate “Admiral Butakov”, the fourth in a series of six units of the 11356 project, was postponed. These ships are urgently needed by the Black Sea Fleet, including for trips to the Mediterranean Sea. Whether the "Admiral Butakov" fell under the "optimization", or there were problems for ships of this type to replace imported equipment, which was located on the prototypes - the Indian frigates of the 11356 project.

DO NOT HAVE TO DROP IN NAVAL ROMANTICISM

Domestic fleet for their history survived several "Tsushim". Suffice it to recall the death of the Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean War of 1853 – 1856, the actual Tsushima battle, which resulted in the loss of the best ships of the imperial fleet. Then there was the Civil War, which turned the Russian fleet into pathetic bits. We must not forget about the so-called Tallinn breakthrough 1941 of the year. Then went to the bottom of the Gulf of Finland 15 warships and boats, 43 transport and auxiliary vessel. In total, taking into account the sunk in Tallinn in the last days of the defense of the city, more than 100 ships and vessels were lost. It is difficult to fully imagine the losses from the last Tsushima when, after the collapse of the USSR, the second in the world power of the Navy (this was what they called it at that time - all words with a capital letter) ceased to exist. Therefore, the restoration of the Russian Navy is required with the utmost care. No need to put before the fleet and industry overwhelming tasks and fall into the "naval romanticism" when it seems that the sea is knee-deep.

The tasks of naval construction are obvious. This is, firstly, the creation of powerful and sustainable NSNFs. Secondly, the provision of a favorable operational regime in the areas of deployment of Russian SSBNs. Thirdly, to prevent the dominance of foreign naval forces in the waters adjacent to our shores, including in the Arctic. Fourth, adequate opportunities to respond to new challenges and threats. These today include US plans to deploy a global missile defense system, where emphasis is placed on the naval component. Each foreign missile defense ship entering combat service must be monitored and destroyed during the threatened period. To neutralize the antimissile threat, it is also necessary to take measures to create additional counter-threats to the territory of the United States by deploying multi-purpose atomic and non-nuclear missile submarines off the US coast. This will undoubtedly contribute to constructive negotiations between Moscow and Washington.
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  1. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 15 June 2013 08: 04 New
    -15
    As I understand it, the point of the article is that our Navy should stand on the quays and not be dishonored ??? We have heard this more than once .. As the saying goes "WE ARE LITTLE BUT WE ARE IN VEST !!!" Everything will be with us. Squadrons in all seas and oceans and the most powerful in the Gulf of Mexico!
    1. YARY
      YARY 15 June 2013 09: 55 New
      20
      How old are you?
      Moderate fuse then moderate, not everything is possible with a bang.
      1. Arberes
        Arberes 15 June 2013 12: 46 New
        10
        Quote: MIKHAN
        As I understand it, the point of the article is that our Navy should stand on the quays and not be dishonored ???

        There is no point in the article in another! Our Navy would be glad to demonstrate its flag in distant seas, but only a few units can get there, preferably with tugboats!
        The only thing I disagree with the author is the Mediterranean Sea. At the moment, our ships are needed there (hey, get up who else is left), at least to support our SYRIA ally. According to the cruiser NAKHIMOV, it’s also not very good. If you don’t have to wait for destroyers in the coming years, at least return it to service!
        Will it also serve us and mother RUSSIA?
    2. reichsmarshal
      reichsmarshal 15 June 2013 11: 49 New
      +9
      What forward? You can’t swim far away in the Holy Spirit; you cannot shoot at the enemy with Orthodox crosses.
    3. Orel
      Orel 15 June 2013 13: 47 New
      +1
      But it is puzzling why, since December 23, 2011, that is, for almost a year and a half, not a single launch of SLBMs has been completed. There were 18 of them, of which six were unsuccessful, and two more were recognized as partially successful.


      The last few launches were successful, there were no problems. The causes of the failures were installed and eliminated. Therefore, they decided to take the “Mace" into service. Or do we need 28 launches, like the Trident? Strategic missiles are not collected at car service centers, and I’m sure that they wouldn’t have been accepted into service if they weren’t sure of their effectiveness, yet it is a carrier of nuclear weapons.
    4. Sakhalininsk
      Sakhalininsk 15 June 2013 13: 52 New
      +8
      Quote: MIKHAN
      As I understand it, the point of the article is that our Navy should stand on the quays and not be dishonored ??? We have heard this more than once .. As the saying goes "WE ARE LITTLE BUT WE ARE IN VEST !!!" Everything will be with us. Squadrons in all seas and oceans and the most powerful in the Gulf of Mexico!


      You do not quite understand the meaning of the article. The point is not to have the fleet standing, in the standing fleet there is no more sense in the genitals of the impotent, it seems, but in fact there isn’t. In order to live, the fleet must be at sea, must work out and solve problems to the maximum. However, unfortunately, as the author answered correctly, the existing ship’s convoy is quite old, and what they’re building so far cannot fill the gap that was organized by the 90’s shit. By the way, on squadrons in all the seas and oksiyana ... you said it certainly is tempting, but Russia does not need a fleet similar to the United States, we are a continental power, and the fleet must first ensure security, and only in the second organize cover for the far reaches of the ocean. God forbid that after 5 years we could protect the nearby sea approaches from the impudent Saxons.
      1. old man54
        old man54 18 June 2013 23: 48 New
        0
        Quote: Sakhalininets
        from arrogant Saxons.

        well said !! "+" To you!
    5. ups
      ups 15 June 2013 14: 46 New
      +1
      It’s not even a large fleet, but it should be in the sea and the ocean and forgive me ... a traitor is one who wants the fleet to be on the joke. The fleet in the ocean is primarily to learn, experienced naval officers make trips.
  2. kind
    kind 15 June 2013 08: 06 New
    15
    It hurts to read! Everywhere failures in education, medicine, industry. Well, who will rake it? !! Could it be that Medvedev with his plasticine government and unfortunate ministers?
    1. not good
      not good 16 June 2013 00: 00 New
      +2
      Dimon tells fairy tales well, but who will say that from his promises he embodied in the matter? A doll is a doll.
      1. atalef
        atalef 16 June 2013 08: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Negoro
        Dimon tells fairy tales well, but who will say that from his promises he embodied in the matter? A doll is a doll.

        And this is his role, to tell tales and take on all the criticism. So to speak, the last and not pierced missile defense belt to protect the Sun-like.
    2. atalef
      atalef 16 June 2013 08: 23 New
      +1
      Quote: Good
      It hurts to read!

      In general, the article is very competent, it is painful to read, but it is better to know the truth and work on errors, so that it would not work (once again) as with Mace. They wanted to create a cheap option based on poplar, as a result, they buried a promising and almost ready Sineva. and so many attendants were killed on Bulava that they probably no longer counted.
  3. Strashila
    Strashila 15 June 2013 08: 25 New
    22
    As they say ... you need to sit down ... have a drink and reason soberly, but what exactly do we need ... and what do we have today. There is already a lot, but there is no need to count on much ... the safety factor in the USSR for the state expired. To begin with, it is necessary to prepare the legislative framework for the military-industrial complex ... The military-industrial complex cannot be unprofitable by definition ... the example of switching health care to self-sufficiency brought nothing good ... neither health care nor money. The military-industrial complex is essentially the same budget structure, for some reason given to private hands. The Navy is not only ships, but also the structure of service and production. From many factories there are no signs. And the attempt to revive the lost technology on the existing production base, even according to the available documentation, failed. Conduct an analysis of the situation, and who will actually be ... the office plankton of state corporations? For this in the USSR there was a State Planning Commission, which clearly said what and in what time frame to produce and !!! at what price !!! try not to comply or refuse. And now a parody of state administration, such as a market, but essentially a flea market-flea market or a maximum of bazaar.
    1. YARY
      YARY 15 June 2013 10: 06 New
      +2
      NATURALIZATION OF NATURAL RESOURCES-times
      NATIONALIZATION OF DEFENSE COMPANIES-two
      SHOT 8000000 officials on the list (VN-ChSVN) -Three
      PRELIMINARY CLOSE BORDERS-four


      This is the first step, without this Khan!
      1. maxbrov74
        maxbrov74 15 June 2013 10: 57 New
        21
        YARY (1) Today, 10: 06 ↑
        SHOT 8000000 officials on the list (VN-ChSVN) -Three


        Why not 10000000? Maybe better 15000000?
        Dear, my wife works as an official in the Department of Agriculture. On salary 20 TR In fact, from 8: 00 to 20: 00 without paying for processing because it is in the civil service. Often six days a week. You suggest me to dunk her personally?
        Ardent, you probably smoked or sniffed the wrong thing in the morning, then you are excusable. And if not, then pull the brains out of your ass and stop carrying any crap.
        I want anyone to shoot, start with yourself.
        1. YARY
          YARY 15 June 2013 12: 28 New
          -11
          Lawrence(and little thing! relish!)
          Anyone who is in the nomenclature is at a loss! With a preliminary conversation in the company of whalers!
          About tsifiri, do not bend! The bloodsucker 8000000 and that's it!

          Every official, a bug of a darling, is obliged to know about it! Then the concept of “Servant of the people” will cease to burp with irony!
          20. Does she get ruble? A sister in the hospital or a rural teacher? Shikoka?
          So tyha and do not buzz!
          Well, what about the passage about brains and w ... do you have such a cute little thing as social justice, are you probably unfamiliar? Go to the museum, find the Nagan revolver there (or the Mauser pistol), put it on your forehead and think about our business mournful. You can grab a wife for this event, it will be useful.
          If you do this at least on weekends, then the working week in the CX department will be fabulous.
          And then drag colleagues into this matter.Let them get used, so that there were no surprises in life .....
          1. smile
            smile 15 June 2013 15: 19 New
            +8
            YARY
            My dear man, how are you going to manage without officials? Who will specifically perform their functions? workers and peasants or entrepreneurs? And then, when they learn to work you and their consumption? Rotation every three years - and into the pit?
            Another ... personal question, do not want to, do not answer, did you personally shoot anyone? If so, did you like it? Or just really want to come to some organization and, reveling in power over people, according to the staffing schedule to build defenseless people against the wall ... oh yes, I forgot, you want to survive and torture them before they die ... Do you have a pathology?
            As I understand it, you, without bothering with upbringing, are you taking your head off the cart wheel too?
            I suggest that you yourself pick up a weapon and carefully peer into the hole ... draw in air from the barrel with your nose ... you can tap your finger on the handle ... does it hurt?
            In general, stop buzzing, or else your competitor flies will flock to your values ​​....
        2. Oleg14774
          Oleg14774 15 June 2013 13: 29 New
          +3
          Quote: maxbrov74
          Dear, my wife works as an official in the Department of Agriculture. On a salary of 20 tr In fact, from 8:00 to 20:00 without payment for processing because it is in the civil service.

          I think he is not such a man as your wife meant! The official bickering to the official! I suspect that such as Serdyukov, Chubais and other traitors to the country. And he got such a figure, he didn’t just count it once, but a few people got lost, that's why it came up so much!
          1. smile
            smile 15 June 2013 15: 23 New
            +5
            Oleg147741
            His head went astray .... completely ... if any. how he will select candidates for death, he will have problems there too .... although he has already decided the exact number ... he needs to be treated!
            1. YARY
              YARY 15 June 2013 16: 03 New
              -9
              The diagnosis is not for you to put glory to God.
              Well, on the bill "... on the finger" - shorten the tongue dear!
              Come from an official fraternity or in a family which of these?
              Oh well...
              1. The comment was deleted.
      2. APASUS
        APASUS 15 June 2013 13: 15 New
        +8
        Quote: Ardent
        This is the first step, without this Khan!

        Well Mahanul !!
        Maybe one meticulous implementation of the LAWS is enough?
        Quote: Ardent
        SHOT 8000000 officials on the list (VN-ChSVN) -Three

        Why did you write a little? More + of all house administrators, doctors, traffic cops !!
        Quote: Ardent
        PRELIMINARY CLOSE BORDERS-four

        And the grill is more powerful .... and brew !!!
        1. YARY
          YARY 15 June 2013 14: 08 New
          -2
          Pavo (I like the penguin)!
          About everything without jokes.
          I believe that the Iron Curtain is needed
          (which for the USSR was just a gift from heaven)
          I think it’s necessary to “cut down” the Internet for half a year (minimum)!

          I believe- all lgbtshnu and liberalstnyu - on the bunks and the shovel for life!
          I believe - all the so-called "EP" there too!
          I believe - everyone who is listed in the NGO through the same “conversation”!
          I believe- A complete audit of the activities (including political) of the entire government is necessary!
          I believe - Immediately switch to settlements in rubles (hosh take not hosh get out)

          I believe - A full and uninterrupted presence of the Armed Forces and Navy in the zones of state interests, and not in ports and towns, is necessary!
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 15 June 2013 14: 27 New
            +3
            Quote: Ardent
            I believe that the Iron Curtain is needed (which for the USSR was just a gift from heaven)

            Why are there so many punitive measures ?? After all, so we will return to the Stone Age, in the likeness of Kampuchea!
            I believe that the problems you listed are being solved simply. THE COUNTRY OF LAW SHOULD BE ESTABLISHED IN THE COUNTRY as in the same Germany.
            But for this, the power itself must be ready, to follow the path of legality in a planned and purposeful way.
            Just putting everyone down cannot solve the problem! And here's why:
            The history of the bribe is several thousand years old and has not yet been defeated.
            1. YARY
              YARY 15 June 2013 14: 58 New
              -1
              But for this, the power itself must be ready, to follow the path of legality in a planned and purposeful way.

              Is your last name Medvedev?
              How are you going to instill respect for the law?
              Wag your finger?
              Home arrest in the mansions?
              Conditional term for a year for murder?
              Dismissal for theft of several billion?

              Only the most severe punishment for everything for the slightest violation of labor and financial discipline can at least change something in the country and as a conclusion in the army!
              All sorts of manila in state activities, from the evil one, that is, harm!
              1. Selevc
                Selevc 15 June 2013 15: 50 New
                +5
                Quote: Ardent
                Dismissal for theft of several billion?

                Such measures rather encourage theft than fight it !!!
              2. APASUS
                APASUS 15 June 2013 19: 17 New
                +1
                Quote: Ardent
                What are you going to instill respect for the law? Threaten with your finger? Home arrest in mansions? Conditional term for a year for murder? Dismissal for theft of several billion?

                If to apply CC? Everything is well described there!
                The main thing is that the citizen knows about the inevitability of punishment for what he did!
                Quote: Ardent
                Is your last name Medvedev?

                My surname is not Medvedev and I grew up in another state, but I worked in Europe and saw the application of the law in practice! And the fact that in Russia at the moment is lawlessness, and you offer TERROR!
          2. mirror
            mirror 15 June 2013 17: 53 New
            +3
            And it will turn out a country full of wonders of Juche :-) Eating rice through humanitarian supplies. Lagging behind the whole world in development. Which, incidentally, happened with the USSR, to my great sadness. The whole economy was asked ... and Reagan only had to persuade the Saudis to drop oil prices, as all the money from the USSR ran out. Then they rolled by inertia, and everything began to fall apart. And no one, not one infection, then stood up for the defense of a crumbling country and its sick economy. And I did not get up, and none of the screaming here stood up.
            Played enough with the planned economy, got the "result". Smart Chinese, looking at us, made conclusions and began to build a market economy. And we stubbornly went to the big well ... The principles were more expensive. Here, sitting in the w ..., we are not building a fleet - there is nothing and no one with it. A market economy requires completely different people with different brains - where can I get them? So, somersaulting, trying to invent our own market economy on our own cones. Colleagues, we need a fleet, like air. But the fleet needs cadres of market managers capable of building effective shipbuilding companies. And where to get them in the right quantities? We do not like office plankton, and it is he who drives this market economy. Yes, so far weakly - but where was he to learn? So first plankton, then ships. And in no other way. Yes, gentlemen, officers, we must respect those who fed us — the people and those who drive the economy. We didn’t bring money to the country, although we did a great and necessary job.
            1. YARY
              YARY 15 June 2013 18: 39 New
              -4
              Judging by your expression-
              Lagging behind the whole world in development. Which, incidentally, happened with the USSR, to my great sadness.

              Clearly went to what day nursery!
              Miloch mob about the first companion of the undead?
              And about Gagarin and even more so?
              Yes, and about television with the Internet theme American main navel of the earth?
              And in which country is the T-72 invented?
              "Eagle"?
              TAVKRs that then together under the conducting of your hosts cut?
              "Satan"?
              Point "U"
              Yes, day and night is not enough to list!
              Do not be disgusted dear, work out the chewing gum, but at least know how much to whose fortune to tell shame!
              1. mirror
                mirror 15 June 2013 18: 54 New
                -2
                The first satellite is 1957. Yuri Gagarin - 1961.
                Well, about the "Eagles" and Tavkry do not need to tell me. The economy didn’t have enough power and the money ran out. Coupons for soap, vodka, sugar and I don’t remember what else - after 1985. In the year 80, there was no milk - he got milk for a child by pulling. Full transdet. It is for this that the Bolsheviks must be called to account. Because they drove oil to the border, and then they bought grain for currency from the capitalists. Could not feed the country. Could not build housing - remember, my friend, the evergreen food program, housing program, calls to catch up and overtake. And neither housing nor food. What shisha was the army to contain? Who, damn it, built such an economy? You can’t fix the economy in 10 years, especially with sages like you. You can, of course, rip off the people, as the Juche people do, but it won’t come out anymore.
          3. sergey261180
            sergey261180 15 June 2013 20: 34 New
            0
            Quote: Ardent
            I think it’s necessary to “cut down” the Internet for half a year (minimum)!
            DO NOT DARE TO TOUCH THE INTERNET !!! am But I agree with the rest.
          4. SPACE
            SPACE 15 June 2013 22: 58 New
            +1
            Quote: Ardent

            I think, all the freedom and liberalism - on the bunks and the shovel for life!
            I think - all the so-called "EP" there too!
            I think - everyone who is listed in the NGO through the same "conversation"!

            laughing Well, so almost no one will remain?
            I propose a more "humane" way: "They clatter with us, take bail. But it’s necessary, as they did in Turkey. They put a thief in a vat with shit, only his head sticks out, and they carry around the city. And above it a janissary with a sword, and every 5 minutes like a whack with a sword over the vat. So, if the thief doesn’t have time to dive into the vat, then his head will be off his shoulders. That's how he dived all day. " laughing
            K / f Gentlemen of fortune.
      3. Oleg14774
        Oleg14774 15 June 2013 13: 27 New
        -2
        Quote: Ardent
        NATURALIZATION OF NATURAL RESOURCES -nationalization of defense enterprises -two shots 8000000 officials on the list (VN-ChSVN) -two-preliminarily close the border-four

        What words are right! Take the soul! I agree on each item 1000 times!
    2. Metlik
      Metlik 15 June 2013 10: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: Strashila
      First you need to prepare the legislative framework for the military-industrial complex.

      I hear all the time - problems due to lack of legislative framework.
      My firm conviction: cadres are more important than laws. If the helm is professionals, no laws will prevent you from successfully fulfilling your plans. And vice versa - the best laws will not help ignoramuses. They will fail even the most successful projects.
      1. Nick
        Nick 15 June 2013 18: 42 New
        0
        Quote: Metlik
        If the helm is professionals, no laws will prevent you from successfully fulfilling your plans.

        It’s a hindrance to the bill, oh laws as they can, no professional can handle it ...
        Quote: Metlik
        And vice versa - the best laws will not help ignoramuses. They will fail even the most successful projects.

        But this is true! As the saying goes - "The law is not written for fools" ...
    3. AlexanderKirov
      AlexanderKirov 15 June 2013 13: 45 New
      -15
      This is called competition. Did you live well in the USSR? And what, have already forgotten about the cars, what were they bad? Monopoly, no market. AND NO DEVELOPMENT. ..... well, again, another sofa expert ..
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 15 June 2013 14: 22 New
        +3
        Quote: AlexanderKirov
        Monopoly, no market. AND NO DEVELOPMENT

        Now tell me how many factories have been built in Russia since 1990?
        How many power plants?
        And what market formed after the fragmentation of RAO EU for example?
        With the new education system, when the Soviet cadres end, we will not be able to design anything more or less complicated
        1. UFO
          UFO 15 June 2013 14: 27 New
          0
          There is a site - "Made with us" ... - in Russia ", go there sometimes, take a look. hi
        2. ups
          ups 15 June 2013 14: 48 New
          -2
          You here, there is a record of what has been done with us.
          sdelanounas.ru
      2. Selevc
        Selevc 15 June 2013 15: 53 New
        +5
        You are a young man confusing the righteous with the sinful - yes, in the USSR there were serious problems in the consumer sector of the economy, but the military-industrial complex flourished and actively developed, namely the development of the military-industrial complex - the essence of the article and comments to it !!!
        1. mirror
          mirror 15 June 2013 22: 54 New
          +3
          The military-industrial complex lived well. Ships and rockets riveted. But what happened to control systems? Where is our analogue of the SOSUS system? And the backlog was back in the Soviet years. Here is an explanatory article on this subject: http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2013-06-14-1_submarines.html Who needs a SSBN with its missiles if she does not receive a command on time? Or if it will be under enemy control? Why are there global control systems when in Soviet times we carried a sailor-westman in a bag of paper on a ship. I remember how I was surprised by the airmail at the IPC built by the GDR.
      3. not good
        not good 16 June 2013 00: 14 New
        +1
        These shitty cars still live and for some reason do not die, stsuki. And as for any development, yes, the country has made huge steps in education, science and the economy, and the main indicator of development is of course demography. Maybe you can prove your figures better right, Mr. Unsurprising expert.
        1. aviator_IAS
          aviator_IAS 17 June 2013 01: 32 New
          0
          Quote: Negoro
          schaz country has made great strides in education, science and economics


          Only unfortunately back.
    4. not good
      not good 16 June 2013 00: 09 New
      0
      The Gosplan is not needed by definition by the current government. When the Gosplan has to reassign all the ministries to the Gosplan, appoint responsible and account for the implementation of the programs, and not harness the funds allocated by the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Finance will lay down its bones, but this will not be allowed. in order to either disaggregate them, or at least divide them into two in order to create at least some kind of competition. But even these proposals do not seem to be beneficial for someone to bury millions in state corporations.
  4. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 15 June 2013 08: 29 New
    -5
    Not everything is as bad as it seems and how they want to convince us of this .. Let's break through as always.
  5. dizelniy
    dizelniy 15 June 2013 08: 33 New
    +6
    The most dangerous thing in this situation in which we are - is shy from side to side. As a result, there will be heterogeneity, incompleteness, and as a result, operational non-readiness to solve the tasks facing the fleet. Goals and objectives are set and they need to be fulfilled increasing the requirements for all participants in the process.
    1. UFO
      UFO 15 June 2013 09: 53 New
      10
      Type "Brownian motion." And what else to expect from a defeated country, although some points are encouraging, a diesel engine in Penza. Even on the site there are "huyazhnye muzhuki" with foam at the mouth who proved that "you do not need to buy Finnish shipyards", which are built at times much faster and better than ours. If there is no “agreement” at our level, then what about the “big thieves”? request what
      1. avt
        avt 15 June 2013 10: 46 New
        +7
        Quote: UFO
        Even on the site there are "huyazhnye muzhuki" with foam at the mouth who proved that "you do not need to buy Finnish shipyards", which are built at times much faster and better than ours. If there is no “agreement” at our level, then what about the “big thieves”?

        So, for reference. The remarkable Soviet deep-sea vehicles ,, Mir "- 2 pieces, were built in Finnish shipyards from American steel according to the Soviet project.
        1. AlexanderKirov
          AlexanderKirov 15 June 2013 13: 42 New
          -12
          No American steel was involved in the process, and no USA supplied it to us. We just took one of the types of American steel as a recipe, but we cast it ourselves and cooked it ourselves. At the Finnish shipyards ... are you questioning the decision of the Soviet leadership regarding the fleet? Either you guys are proud of your advice, now you doubt it? You are all clowns and cocks, NIHRENA do not know what is actually. In fact, the United States constantly inserted sticks into the wheels because of these devices, because the CIA was afraid that they could be used for intelligence. T.ch. The US only bothered us, not helped. You dumb prostitute. You carry kuynyu, like many here. FROM BANAL IGNORANCE.
          1. smile
            smile 15 June 2013 15: 31 New
            +7
            AlexanderKirov
            What do you allow yourself regarding avt? !!!
            Well, march back to your chicken coop, a torn bird! and do not litter the air with your crowing .... nation’s vision ....
            1. avt
              avt 15 June 2013 16: 30 New
              +7
              Quote: smile
              Well, march back to your chicken coop, a torn bird! and do not litter the air with your crowing .... nation’s vision ....

              Yes, never mind, an explicit Internet admiral collects skulls. Judging by the comments - in life you have never had to answer for the bazaar, never go anywhere before anyone - it will fly in not childishly, but not on the Internet, it will mess up the network with life and wonder no time to be punished in real life, have already seen such.
              1. smile
                smile 15 June 2013 17: 39 New
                +4
                avt (
                It is truth too. Well, then let him cackle ... :))))
      2. Alekseev
        Alekseev 15 June 2013 13: 10 New
        +1
        Correctly do not need to purchase.
        They simply will not be allowed to purchase without restrictions that make the acquisition itself meaningless.
        It’s necessary to “fuck”, up to the VMN, our "hand guides"to build as well, or almost the same as in Finland.
        And then where do not get it, so "family contract" in leadership positions, and no one to work.
  6. Lavrik
    Lavrik 15 June 2013 09: 22 New
    +5
    For those who are in the subject - most of the written was known before. Recall the nineties and zero years - a couple of ships were built, hundreds were decommissioned. In the tenth years, the shipbuilding program began - in 10 years, a hundred ships. Almost from scratch. Mistakes outlined in the article are growth sickness. Definitely - they won’t build so much, starting almost everything from scratch - you can’t do without mistakes. Of course, our Russian gagging is enough. I think they will learn from their mistakes, trust somewhere, fix it, and by the 20th year we will have in service many dozens of warships with good characteristics.
  7. sevtrash
    sevtrash 15 June 2013 09: 56 New
    0
    Apparently continuous kickbacks and theft.
  8. Russ69
    Russ69 15 June 2013 10: 08 New
    +2
    We have an eternal shy that everything is bad and complete or vice versa everything is fine.
    Although, it is the marine component that I have the most alarm about, on defense orders. To establish from scratch the mass construction of ships and boats is not an easy task. Much depends on suppliers, where a lot of problems have accumulated lately. And until the whole chain works normally, time will pass. For a year, for two, it is extremely difficult to establish everything.
    Frequent change of leadership. says that everyone sees problems perfectly and tries to solve them. And let’s see what happens.
  9. Xroft
    Xroft 15 June 2013 10: 54 New
    +1
    The eagles will repair and there will be at least in each fleet excellent air defense kits for covering the fleet.
    1. True
      True 15 June 2013 11: 05 New
      +7
      Eagles will not solve anything. Yes, only Nakhimov will be repaired. The rest only after the completion of the repair of "Nakhimov." By that time they are hopelessly out of date.
  10. krez-74
    krez-74 15 June 2013 11: 02 New
    -6
    Soap and rope to the author! And in wartime, they decide for such moods.
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 15 June 2013 11: 49 New
      +6
      The situation in reality is usually worse than in the articles - for example, at the Pacific Fleet there was 1 running multipurpose nuclear submarine (only 10, 6 under repair, 3 sailed too quickly and loudly past Japan). Therefore, articles about the fleet, replacing the leadership of the USC with a "tanker", Rogozin put forward a speech that the "engineer" sounds proud and is an analogue of the nobility - there is a panic. Of course, accelerated repair and construction can improve the situation, but to think sometime you need to start what, why and how to do it.
      About the submarines, the Japanese themselves reported on the Internet - they should have wanted to warn.
  11. TiGRoO
    TiGRoO 15 June 2013 11: 37 New
    +2
    The mace has not been accepted, the redoubt is not working, the caliber is not ... And now, go give up the United States? Or make ships, eliminating mistakes, modernize and repair existing ones, which they actually do, yes, not as we would like, but they do! The road will be overpowered by a walker.
    1. AlexanderKirov
      AlexanderKirov 15 June 2013 13: 30 New
      -5
      WHAT? The Bulava is accepted, the Caliber - this is just the UKKS with missiles - is also accepted. And in the redoubt, everything has already been eliminated. And he, too, is accepted if you do not know. Moreover, it was just a duck, that Redut missed, in fact he was not set the task of getting there, but the task was to work out the launches. And from land he got. The whole complex had to be cut and squeezed for the ship, so what do you want? MINOROBORONS usually crap around weapons, because there are not engineers sitting there, but ordinary economists and warriors. And you would have studied the question yourself more, and not written Chushmen, like this journal
      1. TiGRoO
        TiGRoO 15 June 2013 21: 42 New
        +1
        Claims to the author, and not to me, I don’t sprinkle ashes on my head and do not shout that everything is bad, and you re-read my comment before clever!
  12. Zomanus
    Zomanus 15 June 2013 12: 11 New
    +4
    Normal article. It is better to get pleasant surprises, so such articles normally "land on the ground" of cheers and dreamers. There is no Soviet Union, but many seem to still live in it. And we are sure that we have the army of all the strongest, and the ships even piled up and tanks with airplanes to the horizon. But in reality, we are just starting to rise from the ruins again, as after the 45 year. And the fact that we have not yet been bombed is due solely to the presence of vigorous loaves, from which, even if they were torn on our territory, everything will be completely seized. Indeed, it is ridiculous to rejoice at the launch of some “Rook”, which can be sunk in one burst from the “Volcano”.
    1. True
      True 15 June 2013 13: 06 New
      +5
      And another moment. NF is not a panacea. In small and medium conflicts it is unacceptable. Otherwise, all nuclear powers would rely only on him. But both America and China put primarily on conventional forces.
    2. AlexanderKirov
      AlexanderKirov 15 June 2013 13: 36 New
      -5
      This is a bad and terrible article worthy of a famous toilet seat. There are cheers-patriots, but there are just patriots who know what we have and how it works. What kind of volcano are you talking about? Apparently about the American multi-barrel ... What, is this all your knowledge? And how do you, a club, bring a volcano to a rook? By helicopter? But nothing that a 5,45 volcano against ship metal is that an elephant’s grains? And the helicopter will be shot down even from the rook, because it has a MANPADS Igla. I actually thought you were talking about the P-1000 volcano that makes the entire US carrier fleet fight. And you're talking about your terminator shit. Single, student, to school September 1
      1. Windbreak
        Windbreak 15 June 2013 22: 42 New
        +1
        Quote: AlexanderKirov
        5,45 volcano against ship metal is that an elephant's grains?
        20 mm, not 5.45. And where did you see the special security of modern ships?
  13. cartridge
    cartridge 15 June 2013 12: 29 New
    +2
    To establish relations with countries in the regions of interest to us, to negotiate with them, create Russian naval bases there and simultaneously build new ships - such an algorithm will lead us to success.
    Throwing on embrasures without reserves of ships and supply infrastructure will lead us to defeat.
    1. the polar
      the polar 15 June 2013 15: 00 New
      +3
      Quote: cartridge
      To establish relations with countries in the regions of interest to us, to negotiate with them, create Russian naval bases there and simultaneously build new ships - such an algorithm will lead us to success.

      It takes a lot of money. And there is such money, only they are shoved into trillions in private pockets.
      So Russia has two options: either continue to produce oligarch-billionaires, and perish, or crush bloodsuckers and revive the whole people that was destroyed and plundered.
  14. AlexanderKirov
    AlexanderKirov 15 June 2013 13: 15 New
    0
    What a lousy pessimistic little article? I'm even more amazing to read local users. "I read, it became sad ...." how easy it is to manage your opinion and mood! As much as you want, the main thing is to write in a foldable way and you have already lost heart. Please note that WHERE MORE ardent pessimistic articles were written just after the collapse, in the late 90s, early 2000s ... I’m even afraid to look at them again, because they attributed such a sharashka to us that we should have died 20 years ago. Well now, little by little, I will omit the article to the rank of snot on paper. Means what? - It is a very bad deed of the author to drive around the Mace again. What, the article was written to crap again? The mace flies and everything is in order with it, it has long been forgotten about it! And in the articles she still appears! How is this not adopted? Well, yes, there were no big magnificent ceremonies. But it is accepted without any documents. What is more important to you - a document, or the fact that a rocket flies? The Americans took the F-22, so what? Permanent prohibitions on flights, strangulation of the pilot, imperfection of the breathing apparatus, stench from the cockpit, restriction on the ceiling - is this a normal finished airplane? CLOWNERY. Further, what nonsense about Redoubt? "The Furke radar of general detection does not cope with target designation of missiles, and, apparently, will not cope. "- the wording" apparently doesn’t cope "struck the general - HOW DO some journalist KNOW IT ?? A journalist is not an engineer, not a mechanic, not even a carpenter. This is a folding clerk. It is for such moments that I despise such zhurnalyug, they do not know ANYTHING about the world around and how it works. But they allow themselves bold attacks "yes he will miss anyway and they won’t fix it !!" - for such crap, you need to deprive the bonuses. We went further "In the best case, the" European-quality repair "will cost 10-12 billion. rub. to the body. "- generally fuck. But nothing that the whole PAK FA costs only 2,5 billion rubles? Is the new su-34 only 1 billion? We will build 10 billion to build a whole corvette new from scratch, with new materials, does it not seem like a LOT? Again nonsense, again snot, smeared on pieces of paper. They drove further: "But the refusal to build the eighth 885 multipurpose nuclear submarine is bewildering." This is generally a real example of how zhurnalyug do not feed bread, but let me write a nightmare sucked from my finger. The fact that we still have only one boat in testing is under construction, only 2-3 are still being built .... so where the hell are we going to get the 8th boat, author-journalist? And why not just the 20th boat? We haven’t built 5 yet, for the 8th even the metal has not yet been mined from the bowels of the earth, and the journalist is already furious that “they canceled the order for the boat!”. Sewing little article zhurnalyugi and nothing more. We drove further - about this Admiral Nakhimov this journalist DOESN’T know ANYTHING at all, because writing such a lousy article does not include studying the mat. parts for this ship. Project Orlan, the most powerful ships, and now everything is being done right. We are building corvettes - there is not enough zhurnalyuga, says "more ships are needed." But we do not have capacities yet for large ships, we started small and do everything right. But then they decided to make up the fleet of large ships with our Eagles, we have 4 of them, what did you need to saw? This journalist would crap right at the table if he found out. Those. With eagles we will replenish our large ships. But zhurnalyug and this is not necessary! So what does this journalist achieve, what goals? He contradicts himself. And his goal is to crap and forget. And let people dig and indignant there.
    1. Oleg14774
      Oleg14774 15 June 2013 13: 31 New
      0
      Quote: AlexanderKirov
      Please note that WHERE MORE ardent pessimistic articles were written just after the collapse, in the late 90s,

      Well done, Alexander! Hold the plus!
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 16 June 2013 02: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: AlexanderKirov
      The mace flies and everything is in order with it, it has long been forgotten about it! And in the articles she still appears! How is this not adopted?

      Yes, like that - it was put into trial operation for printing, and it was written about it on quite decent resources http://flotprom.ru/news/?ELEMENT_ID=143185
      But who accepted it in the media is a question, but it’s unlikely that the author of this article
      Quote: AlexanderKirov
      Further, what nonsense about Redoubt? "The Furke radar of general detection does not cope with target designation of missiles, and, apparently, will not cope."

      And you do not know what problems arose with the Fourka when trying to train it to direct missiles? In general, the author is right - although in the end they somehow forced Furka to launch missiles, she does it like a dog that walks on its hind legs - she will never do it well, but everyone is surprised that she does it at all.
      Fourka - this, according to the sailors, is squalor. But the problem is not even in the furka (in the end, working under the furka is an additional and not the main task) - the problem is that the complex itself, which Polyment Redoubt with the Poliment radar, is still inoperative. Although I should have. And knowledgeable people who are aware of the problems of the developers are completely pessimistic - they say that it is unrealistic to bring the complex to mind (with the rest of the developers).
      Quote: AlexanderKirov
      Then we went "At best, the" European-quality repair "will cost 10 – 12 billion rubles for the building." - get fucked up. But nothing that the whole PAK FA costs only 2,5 billion rubles?

      Where is the data from, if not secret? :)
      Quote: AlexanderKirov
      They drove further: "But the refusal to build the eighth 885 multipurpose nuclear submarine is perplexing."

      So it really causes bewilderment. Especially taking into account the fact that one and a half boats are left for the fleet and neither 8 nor 16 ash trees, generally speaking, they do not solve the problem
      Quote: AlexanderKirov
      We drove further - about this Admiral Nakhimov this journalist DOESN’T know ANYTHING at all,

      Then yes, I agree.
  15. AlexanderKirov
    AlexanderKirov 15 June 2013 13: 23 New
    0
    In general, guys, people, people. I ... how to say ... I’m not only familiar with the fleet, I am very actively interested in it, I know a lot, I spend all day browsing the Internet and studying. And this article is just rubbish, you can’t read it, I am boldly telling you this. The author deliberately distorts the truth, presents it in an unfavorable light, constantly looks only at the minuses and has never looked at the pros! Everywhere he has a problem, everywhere hesitates, and he finishes it all every time "apparently, we won’t cope." I reached only half, it’s just so disgusting to read this lie, lice, this rubbish, which the local journalist calls "the truth." This is a real man who knows nothing about the fleet or the weapons of the fleet. NOTHING. On tops he collected, quickly designed and put into print. People, have dignity, do not read this rubbish. I even suspect that it might be paid. Still, he lives in this country, but sees one thing. .... Dumb, lousy zhurnalyug and I completely despise such. Here they are, journalism faculties.
    1. smile
      smile 15 June 2013 15: 47 New
      +7
      AlexanderKirov
      You see. what a thing .... your peremptory statement that you know everything, because. that you constantly sit on the Internet and study ..... just beyond the border .... Maybe you should go and serve? Or to get an engineer at a military factory ... If you read in a newspaper (and the same newspaper, just a big one) how to shoot from a machine gun, I slightly doubt that you will master the skills of handling it ... you will discredit your own ideas..love!
      Also, stop insulting your site peers! You are still here, in my opinion did not offend. I myself am not a gift, and I can swear ... but there is a limit to everything ...
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 15 June 2013 13: 52 New
    +5
    The article is reminiscent of shots from The Diamond Arm: “Everything is lost! Customer is leaving! They remove plaster! ”(C).
    Each of us individually was aware of the problems with the construction of new ships, the state of the shipbuilding base, and the adoption of new waste. We perceived this as a natural process. “Yes, there are problems, but they are working on them, and they will be resolved,” that was the perception of the situation.
    But Brain came, he gathered all the negativity into a heap, dumped it on our heads, and the unbelievers, following Lelik, shouted: “Everything is gone!” Again, searches for corrupt officials and saw cutters, pouring mud on the leadership vertically to the President, again the desire to shoot someone ...
    It is impossible to build something new without beliefs and faith. It is impossible, like ears of wheat in the wind, to follow in the wake of the author's judgments, as is often the case, unfortunately, happens on our forum. These are emotions. Serious problems need to be judged on a cold head!
    Essentially. There are problems, they are indicated, they are not fatal, but are solved. The importance of their decision is recognized at the very top, as American NK missile defense systems today are a real threat to destabilizing parity on strategic offensive arms, rather than the antimissile defense areas planned for deployment in Europe.
    Therefore, the development of the fleet is given such close attention. And that it will be built and will be built, despite the demoralizing whining of the brain and K *, I have no doubt about it. This is vital for the country: our adversary is the Navy. And nobody is going to repeat 41 year. And it must be smashed far from the walls of the capital: at the passage by the sea, in bases, in areas of combat patrol. And for this we need a fleet!
    Sorry for the long, it’s pained!
    1. SPACE
      SPACE 15 June 2013 23: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: BoA KAA
      The article recalls ...

      A colleague, I do not always and in all things agree with you, but now you said "+" for me. That's right, no need to rush from side to side and breed panic.
      As for the article, the author has over-thickened the paint, and some allegations are completely controversial.
  18. AlexanderKirov
    AlexanderKirov 15 June 2013 13: 54 New
    -6
    By the way, how funny! All the "prosralipolymers" get just from 4 to 10 green pluses, and who begins to doubt the veracity of the article and the material presented in general - immediately minuses. Yes, here the campaign is a parade of delirium and antilogics! All tupar get likes, all more or less knowledgeable get cons. Hamsters come in, read of course those who got the most green, and begin to think the same. So public opinion is built ... on a lie, lice, ignorance and total neglect to study the topic yourself. I didn’t imagine that on such an adequate resource (it seems to be an adequate, after all, not some kind of game magazine) such wretched people. If you have something to tell me, say it. And you swallow your cons. I know most of all about the fleet, incl. what are you rubbing me with your minuses? You would have gone, illiterate collective farmers.
    1. ups
      ups 15 June 2013 14: 51 New
      +1
      Precisely noticed))))
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 15 June 2013 22: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: AlexanderKirov
      By the way, how funny! All "prosralipolymers" get just from 4 to 10 green pluses

      And you watch when the pros appear, when the cons. In Europe, it’s time in the evening, Internet fighters naminus and went home, in America late in the morning, their PR specialists have already noted the minuses, the Far East is approaching, pluses will go to count the meridians.
      1. SPACE
        SPACE 15 June 2013 23: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: AlexanderKirov
        By the way, how funny! All "prosralipolymers"

        Metamorphoses, or the online migration of hamsters. laughing
        Quote: Setrac
        Far East, pluses will go to count meridians.

        Quote: ups
        Precisely noticed))))

        Join us!
  19. Avenger711
    Avenger711 15 June 2013 14: 02 New
    +3
    We have to work, plant and shoot.
  20. KononAV
    KononAV 15 June 2013 14: 39 New
    +3
    It's hard to read all this, but unfortunately the truth is even worse than such articles
  21. falcon
    falcon 15 June 2013 15: 30 New
    +2
    The article is normal. It would be foolish to think that shipbuilding is an “oasis of prosperity” for the Russian military-industrial complex.
    Effective managers steered well.
  22. pretorianec
    pretorianec 15 June 2013 17: 13 New
    +1
    However, he too, who had such powerful levers of stimulating creative and other creative activities as prisons, camps, torture, and death threats, created in the defense industry many design bureaus and enterprises that competed for life and death.


    this is what ... it’s written ... and even with such a pessimism ....
  23. askkasko
    askkasko 15 June 2013 17: 23 New
    0
    I want to share with you my recent discovery, this is a service for finding any information about a person! As I saw, I looked and thought that it was all a divorce, but after a minute I was horrified to see all the information about myself, about my friends, about my boyfriend! There is literally everything there and it's all in the public domain! http://ovpoisk.gu.ma
  24. Odysseus
    Odysseus 15 June 2013 22: 40 New
    +1
    The author’s desire to take a sober look at the state of affairs in the Russian fleet and try to create a concept for its construction and application, of course, is pleasing.
    But the author’s strategic ideas raise certain questions ...
    If you call a spade a spade, the author says, you need to concentrate on the nuclear submarine fleet, build ships of the near sea zone in the surface fleet, but we still cannot pull the ocean fleet.
    This is a completely discussed point of view, but on the other hand, the author sets the task of tracking and destroying all NATO missile defense ships, which requires the construction of a huge submarine fleet. It is unclear whether this is possible in the foreseeable future.
    Plus, it’s completely unclear what to do with Japan. And in general with the Far Eastern theater.
    Is it possible to deter it only with the help of nuclear submarines?
    The author ignores this issue, seeing only NATO as an adversary.
    And then abandon the idea of ​​building the Ocean Fleet ..... Perhaps, but really would not want to.
  25. Severok
    Severok 15 June 2013 22: 53 New
    +1
    The commentary directly raises the question: "Who will restore the fleet?"
    Answer: obviously not bankers and traders from the pavilions of cellular communications! We are with the hands of our children, if not our own! The main thing is to lay in them respect for the creative work, and not the "productive" one.
  26. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 15 June 2013 23: 36 New
    0
    Quote: Ardent
    How old are you?
    Moderate fuse then moderate, not everything is possible with a bang.

    I understand everything ... and I have enough years ... just in the 90s I read a lot of these topics .. and now they are trying to convince Russia of this .. We in Russia are doing everything in Ur ... And the Navy does not need to insult .. These are the things in the tank troops .. bully
  27. okroshka79
    okroshka79 15 June 2013 23: 59 New
    +2
    The article is very sad, but ... correct. And here the author of the article considers only technical and economic (partly) problems and does not write at all yet, but are the crews of the ships available and capable of going out to sea to solve all their missions for combat mission? You look at today's reports from the BP marine test sites and in general longing takes - everything is quite primitive. For example, it shows with pride how the AK-130 two-gun AU shoots, and it has solid passes on one barrel of the turret, it launches missiles, it is clear that it is not controlled in flight. In my time, the rarest case when an air defense system was carried out using a simulator is now very often. But the glorious marines are firing machine guns at the water, and it’s great that there weren’t any ships before. But on all the ships there were non-staff units of the MP with the corresponding weapons (AKM, RPK, RPG-7), which before entering the BS underwent mandatory training in parts of the marine corps. By the way, m. Does anyone know where the marines are now placed on ships, because there were no free cubes for this on ships? And returning to the content of the article, indeed, with all my deep respect for the tank troops, I want to spit that now the tank master will build ships. Really in our shipyards there was not a single qualified ship director? Truly a disaster, when a pastry chef rides his boots, and a shoemaker bakes pastry. I personally went through the new building of the ship, project 1135 in full, managed to visit the main shipyards and imagine how complicated the process of building the ship is. But this was when all the employees in the SHA were highly qualified specialists, cooperation was established, military acceptance and quality control services of the enterprise function correctly and in full. And then, with what tension everything went! But what now, when due to well-known reasons everything is collapsed, and the ships and their weapons become even more complicated? And with gas turbines, how? Previously, they were manufactured by the Southern Turbine Plant in the city of Nikolaev. If in Russia we have mastered any factory producing gas turbines for ships, then someone tell me, calm down. My deep conviction that the current fleet construction program in the current state of affairs is really a complete bluff! Another Tsushima smells, brothers.
  28. Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch 16 June 2013 03: 51 New
    0
    And who can tell me, the smoke screen from the engine in the photo is a feature of our engines or a sign of a resource?
  29. gregor6549
    gregor6549 16 June 2013 07: 48 New
    0
    A very competent and serious article, no matter how sad it was to read it. And it does not contain criticism, but a very detailed analysis of the current state and immediate prospects of the Navy and the Sudprom of Russia and very constructive rather than destructive criticism. As the saying goes, a bitter truth is better than a sweet lie. And shouting cheers, down and to the wall you can’t fix anything. Only silent and hard work. And it’s time to revive competition. Without healthy competition, prices soar to the ceiling and quality drops below the plinth. And for the low quality of military equipment and weapons always had and has to pay with the many lives of its "exploiters". This is especially true for naval and aviation equipment. It is difficult to fix malfunctions and constructive mistakes on the fly or on a sea voyage. And if at the same time it’s not just flying or walking along the seas but also fighting, then how? I agree with the opinion of the author regarding the ambitions of disproportionate opportunities. Well, you can keep in the Mediterranean, for example, a sea squadron of several ships assembled around the world, which, frankly, can’t do anything serious against any ACG of the same Americans. The biggest thing they can do is to ensure the evacuation of Russian specialists and other Russian citizens from the ports of Syria in the event that the conflict in Syria gets out of control. And then, provided that the evacuees have time to collect in the right place, for example in Tartus, at the right time. But they may not have time to collect. You still need to get to the port alive. Recall the evacuation of Americans and their Vietnamese students from Saigon. Many did not have time to evacuate despite the full power of the American squadron with the AUG in that area
    1. PLO
      PLO 16 June 2013 12: 40 New
      0
      the analysis is certainly good, but only in the last 2 chapters all its conclusions are in doubt ..
      especially about the rejection of Nakhimov and SM-3 super-interceptors
  30. tsiter
    tsiter 16 June 2013 19: 11 New
    0
    I want to share with you my recent discovery, this is a service for finding any information about a person! As I saw, I looked and thought that it was all a divorce, but after a minute I was horrified to see all the information about myself, about my friends, about my boyfriend! There is literally everything there and it's all in the public domain! Here you take a look = - rf / geB
  31. 094711601
    094711601 16 June 2013 19: 14 New
    0
    Friends, re-read the memoirs of Admiral Kuznetsov, especially the chapters on pre and post-war shipbuilding programs. Nothing has changed! The fleet is on the sidelines. The land and naval command in our country do not coexist under one roof. Bottom line, we have what we have ....
  32. okroshka79
    okroshka79 16 June 2013 22: 33 New
    +1
    For Semyon Semenovich: such smoke from a gas turbine is a completely normal phenomenon when working out the reverse
    1. Semen Semyonitch
      Semen Semyonitch 18 June 2013 08: 07 New
      0
      Quote: okroshka79
      For Semyon Semenovich: such smoke from a gas turbine is a completely normal phenomenon when working out the reverse

      It seems to me that there isn’t such a thing on bourgeois ???