Military Review

Director of the Central Research Institute "Gidropribor" vs. Economist - Head of 4 of the Main Department of SMEs


An excerpt from the book Kolyadina PK "Notes of the military representative"

With a relative drop in voltage, in the evening at dinner, leading a professional conversation about the design, manufacturing, causes, etc. I asked Radiy Vasilievich the question: “Why do you, the director of the head institute, do not take measures to reduce the cost of the torpedoes you are developing, but try, on the contrary, to design torpedoes with the highest possible price. There are all prerequisites for price reduction in the industry, but you are not using these opportunities! ”

Radiy Vasilievich objected. He did not feel the trick.

- We are doing everything according to the plan for the supply and development of new equipment, agreed with the Navy.

- After all, the plan is a plan, and if the plan leads to a depletion of the country's resources, an overestimation of defense expenditures, without a visible jump in the projected torpedoes produced by the performance characteristics How to explain this point of view!

Isakov, without hesitation, replied: “What we are prescribed is what we are doing!”

- But you are a design institute, funds for design, manufacturing are not taken from the air, but all this comes from the Union budget and the state plans what you offer, what you design! After all, there are no other designers, you are monopolists!

Deciding to end the controversy on this very difficult question, I inform the following:
“Here I, as a district military representative, are signing the cost of the 53-65K torpedoes in the amount of 21 000 rubles. And the cost USET-80 - 360 000 rub. One silver battery costs about 70 000 rub. 3 torpedoes heat. But the thermal torpedo with the same performance characteristics (multipurpose) you could design and much cheaper, more profitable for the country! After all, how to look! But it can be qualified as an economic sabotage! Especially since Dulles calls for an economic war! ”
(note: now one USET-80 battery costs 16 million)

Radiy Vasilyevich, after a little thought, continued: “Perhaps you are right! After all, pragmatic Americans do not design electric torpedoes! They have MK-48 for several years now being upgraded under the new TTX, using a modular design! We could also go this way: by upgrading one torpedo, using groundwork and getting a perfect torpedo with minimal cost. And what is the benefit in operation, maintenance, development, etc.?! After all, the enormous savings that could have been used for another purpose, without reducing the defenses of this type weapons».

There was a pause.

“So what's the deal?” I asked.

“The thing is this: our Head of the Central Board of Levchenko Marat Petrovich is an economist. When I was appointed director of the institute, to consider the prospects for the development of the torpedo industry, I proposed the concept of developing a thermal torpedo at the expense of the electric one. All the arguments boiled down to the advantage of thermal torpedoes. But the head of the cupola was categorically against it, it came to insults and threats to remove me from my position. I gave up. "Weight categories" are not equal too. And the essence was reduced to the simple. Levchenko M.P. He came to Glavka from the Dagdizel plant. A multi-purpose plant, one of the largest in the industry, manufactured electric torpedoes, and in terms of labor intensity, they were smaller in 3-4 than thermal ones, and in terms of price they were one and a half times more expensive. Imagine: An electric torpedo is assembled from purchased units: an engine, a rechargeable battery, control devices, a homing apparatus and a proximity fuse, a combat charging compartment, cables, etc. Shells are made, propellers, fasteners and that's it. And the cost? When they began to move to the NCP (regulatory clean products) machine-building plant them. Kirov in Alma-Ata assumed that at last he would rise economically, since in the production of torpedoes, he had 85% on the complexity of his own work, and the plant that manufactures electrical torpedoes - only 35%. So, if one price of a standard hour were set, then the plant named after him. Kirov would have enormous advantages.

But it was not there. The ministry set a different coefficient on the cost of a standard hour. So for the plant to them. Kirov, whose work is 85%, the coefficient was 1,1, and for plants that have their own work 35% - the coefficient was set to 3,5. Thus, the factories producing electrical torpedoes won from economic reform. In addition, all purchased units that arrived at the assembly from other plants, were already in the torpedo at a cost of 20% higher than the plant purchased them for picking. That is the main reason why it is so difficult to incorporate multi-purpose heat torpedoes into development. Here we did not copy the United States, it was not profitable for the officials, and there was no Soso, there was no one to threaten with a finger: “Do not be fooled, economists! Rationally use the resources of the country! ”

This is how the dispute over the prospects of torpedo weapons between the director of the Central Research Institute "Gidropribor" and the Head of the Main Board - an economist of the industry ended.
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  1. atos_kin
    atos_kin 19 May 2013 10: 50 New
    Economists + bankers = enemies of the military-industrial complex.
    1. svp67
      svp67 19 May 2013 16: 29 New
      Quote: atos_kin
      Economists + bankers = enemies of the military-industrial complex.

      But even without them there is nowhere, it means somehow it is necessary to solve this problem, the creation of a commission composed of not only economists, but also industrialists and the military, and that their work would be fruitful to introduce a time frame for a decision ...
    2. Garrin
      Garrin 19 May 2013 19: 46 New
      Quote: atos_kin
      Economists + bankers = enemies of the military-industrial complex.

      Economists + bankers = enemies of the People.
  2. 120352
    120352 19 May 2013 11: 35 New
    Some kind of economic determinism is more furry than Marx himself! The cart should not be placed in front of the horse, gentlemen.
  3. Suhov
    Suhov 19 May 2013 12: 05 New
    Economist - sounds proud
    but the hand anyway - reaches for the gun.
    And in essence.
    Economics depends on economists to the same extent
    what weather depends on meteorologists.
    ppr rrrrrrrrrrpp
  4. jagdpanzer
    jagdpanzer 19 May 2013 12: 22 New
    nothing has changed even worsened
  5. Petrovich-2
    Petrovich-2 19 May 2013 12: 39 New
    Quote: Sukhov

    Economics depends on economists to the same extent
    what weather depends on meteorologists.

    But they, the fuckers, don’t know this, and consider themselves the main ones.
    1. limon
      limon 19 May 2013 13: 32 New
      They know everything perfectly. Harm specially.
    2. Suhov
      Suhov 19 May 2013 21: 08 New
      Quote: Petrovich-2
      But they, zas * ancy, they don’t know this, and consider themselves the main.

  6. Delink
    Delink 19 May 2013 13: 05 New
    Let it be one price at the time when they made the order. But technology does not stand still. You can also offer improvements and save money. At the same time, release a few more. "We have fools in store for a hundred years."
    Although, what was taught, and how they beat on the hands, so as not to climb across the dad into the hell. They repelled any desire to improve and introduce something new. So we get what we have.
  7. rpek32
    rpek32 19 May 2013 13: 58 New
    As long as manufacturing industries are led by economists and other “effective managers,” these industries will not be effective. what
    1. treskoed
      treskoed 19 May 2013 14: 25 New
      Here you need the department "Tornado"!
      1. annenkov242
        annenkov242 19 May 2013 18: 05 New
        Quote: treskoed
        Here you need the department "Tornado"!

        And again they will tell you, now is not 39 years old.
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 21 May 2013 20: 03 New
      Quote: rpek32
      manufacturing industries will be led by economists and other "effective managers"; these industries will not be effective

      Why only production? Why does a worker in the military-industrial complex receive 25 thousand and in the fuel and energy complex 60 thousand? Why does the municipal defense require that the military-industrial complex operate without profit, at the rates of the municipal defense?
  8. ilya63
    ilya63 19 May 2013 15: 04 New
    economists just don’t understand everything in production, but they know a cloud of moves and exits how not to deprive themselves of their loved ones while yelling that they are trying to save costs from the budget that the company takes that country as a whole. where the manufacturers in the first place are quality and real breakthroughs in science and technology, the circulation of funds, real profit, where economists are there, either the company or the bankrupt is breathing in the dark.
    the word economist implies that a person cannot offer a qualitative leap to improve the work of an enterprise or industry, or improve conditions or increase labor productivity, he thinks in terms of savings-cut costs, dismiss or save on the purchase of low-quality components, etc., while being freed he is in no hurry to put resources into production (circulation) / and even try to stick something to himself legally (premium) or not (rollback), and therefore their place has always been sixteenth before, and with the advent of the market -first, it turns out that instead of a normal industry we have, at best, buy and sell, even when we are in trade, we are .. there are like children (whoever interferes with setting their oil and gas prices, I can say no one wants to because they themselves climb into a bunch of hucksters only there nobody expects them) and the tornado doesn’t need political power and political decisions aimed not at personal enrichment, but first at enriching the country, turning the country into a great power, and there, as one flyer said, it is possible to cultivate gardens
  9. boroda652
    boroda652 19 May 2013 15: 49 New
    Is it reasonable to condemn the costs of the Soviet system if it nevertheless worked (efficiently) for DEFENSE ... (!?!) ... with the current defense industry tetanus ???
  10. bubla5
    bubla5 19 May 2013 16: 44 New
    Just Soviet planning, the more expensive the easier it is to complete and use the money before the end of the year, otherwise they will reduce the next
  11. Yura
    Yura 19 May 2013 17: 42 New
    I recalled after reading the article of the anecdote of the 8th years, and so the parade of the Armed Forces on Red Square was marching by the Suvorovtsy, Nakhimovtsy, followed by troops in a certain order, and only after them came the equipment in order of increasing power, the most powerful installations with ballistic missiles passed by last. And then suddenly everyone sees that behind these installations five people are marching in black suits, hats and in the hands of a diplomat, people from the mausoleum watching the parade in bewilderment, ask each other what they say is who these people are? Nobody knows, and when the turn came to answer the Minister of Economics, he says: "Yes, these are our best economists, they are terrible strategic weapons, if they are sent to a potential adversary, then everything that has marched and passed in front of them may not be needed." ----------------------------- In Soviet times, in pursuit of the notorious rampart, economists and enterprises very often did the things described in the article, or similar which often was not good for the state as a whole. It happened.
  12. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 19 May 2013 18: 59 New
    To the question of torpedoes. Deep sea shooting can only be done with an electric torpedo. Therefore, we need not only heat engines, but also USET-80, and UMGT-1M as the RPK-6 waterfall warhead, and self-propelled multi-purpose GPD devices - simulators of the MG-74 submarine type. In addition, most aircraft torpedoes, if not reactive, then electric.
    Another thing is that there are questions economic feasibility to which in the USSR, especially during the war years, I.V. Stalin paid special attention. Unlike “effective managers”, he was well versed in the issue of production, and not just accounting.
    Why was the USSR the first to break into space? Yes, because KB and Production were headed by SPECIALISTS! And not economists. And they thought about the final product in the first place, and only then about reducing costs.
    And more. Priorities have changed: Previously, “my work was poured into the piggy bank of the country”, and now I’ll grab more and quietly send it to the Canaries (or to another offshore). Therefore, more than ever, we need military representatives-dragons-incorruptible. And you need to evaluate them by the number of rejected products, like doctors - by the number of days when the patient was healthy! IMHO.
  13. waisson
    waisson 19 May 2013 18: 59 New
    STALIN they need after the war raised the economy of the army in a word the country was afraid to respect us. And now we are afraid of being deprived of the state of a caricot it is only somewhere in Papua new Guinea. There is NO NORMAL HOST in this country. Here they are going to snatch a piece of fatter and pull a larger blanket over yourself .
  14. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 19 May 2013 19: 49 New
    Oh my God! Who thinks about the means of the country. For many years I worked with technology developers. Failure to meet the deadlines for OCD, an avalanche-like increase in prices. Sometimes it seemed that the military-industrial complex works for adversaries. In Soviet times, there was more or less order. And now ... indeed, there is no master in the country. Russia needs a leader like Stalin.
  15. shpuntik
    shpuntik 19 May 2013 21: 59 New
    The article sounded the term: "economic sabotage." This is the place to be, now and then, and not only in the military sphere. A vivid example: the "perestroika" and the undermining of the USSR economy, when the State Planning Commission sent boots to the south, soap in one direction, matches in the other, created nicotine hunger, chopped vineyards.
    Therefore, under I.V. Dzhugashvili, this one: "... MP Levchenko came to Glavk from the Dagdiesel plant.", They could have brought him to clean water.
    PS In my opinion, the article is not about what torpedoes are needed, but about what manipulations were carried out with a standard / hour cost. This is the basis for calculating the cost of technical kits.
    KOPALYCH 20 May 2013 05: 17 New
    The people, both bitterly and funnyly read your nonsense! Grieve over Stalin! I recommend re-reading (most likely you read such books!), nevertheless re-read the books of A.I. Solzhenitsyna. It will be useful to recall how they actually fought with "economic sabotage", with "Industrial Party" and how many such politicized fools who slandered themselves and all their friends and colleagues were tortured and executed in prisons. Read the books of Viktor Suvorov: you will learn a lot of new and informative about your idol, the father of peoples and the executioner-fanatic! Maybe then you stop praising him!
    Judging by your revelations, you literate yourself have not read these books, nor the history of your state (even from newspapers and blogs!), And you didn’t sit at all in Stalin’s camps and sharashka. And you can’t even imagine the atmosphere of those terrible years, but you’re groaning "Stalin would ...". The bitter history of our long-suffering Motherland has not taught you anything!
    And now about the economists. What do you know about the economy, wretched? What you used to call the "economy" has nothing to do with this science. I explain: those whom you call "economists" and condemn in your posts really deserve this, because they were simple bookkeepers. But not economists! And these, you see, are two big differences! Since neither they nor you know anything about production management! Professional economists and bankers "rule" in the entire civilized world in all sectors in a friendly team with techies! And only in Russia for almost 80 years the country and its economy were ruled by party leaders, in the first years of Soviet power, completely illiterate or, at best, illiterate. They drowned the whole country in blood, intimidated everyone and everything, both in their own country and abroad! Heaped up so much that God forbid!
    And today, in the State Duma and in different parties, talkers, scum, and bribe takers got bored! But there are no real managers, for example, Mikhail Prokhorov: either clowns, like Zhirik, or like Medvedev mumming something from someone else's hint; they play foolishly, steal and bring down everything on economists, Trotskyists, opportunists ...
    Read history and economics including! How can a techie manage production? This is a laugh and nothing more! Without being aware of the subject matter, do not stir up the water!
    Read your balcony, believe me, disgusting!
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 20 May 2013 05: 57 New
      I didn’t know that there is such a science - economics. I always thought it was from the field of alchemy, astrology, ufology ...
      1. KOPALYCH
        KOPALYCH 20 May 2013 06: 19 New
        Quote: ramsi
        I didn’t know that there is such a science - economics. I always thought it was from the field of alchemy, astrology, ufology ...

        Judging by the presence of spelling errors in your post, you are not strong in Russian either ... It’s better if you, my friend, didn’t jerk off, learn the Russian language and gain your mind! How can you judge what you are not literate in ?!
    2. Yura
      Yura 20 May 2013 08: 47 New
      Quote: KOPALYCH
      What do you know about the economy, wretched?

      If you offer to get acquainted with the history of Russia according to Solzhenitsyn and V. Suvorov (one potential traitor, the second natural), then you yourself, my friend, are dead ..... or one of them, everything that you wrote here, we know no worse than yours. What can you know about the history of Russia if the sources of your knowledge of the above degenerates and traitors? And if you are knowledgeable in economics write better about it. People are not born either techies or economists. There were brilliant technicians and economists in your voices, the article and posts are not about them, but about circumstances when managers had to take measures, to put it mildly, harmful to the state, for reporting and the benefits of their enterprises. And then you see all the nonsense here, it’s disgusting to you and all the wretched ones, the entire screen of the monitor on the reverse side was sprayed with saliva, the wipers broke, you have to go to the auto parts store again for new ones. The hatred of you rushes for yesterday and today, who are you? Isn't it a banal non-floating waterfowl? Well not from a swamp?
      1. KOPALYCH
        KOPALYCH 20 May 2013 09: 34 New
        First, mind you, I was not the first to get bored, as you put it, of the “voiced times”. I am not nostalgic for Stalin, in any of its manifestations (whether he is a manager, commander, Father of peoples, etc.).
        Secondly, I am very sorry that you know the story from newspapers and TV shows, Solzhenitsyn and Suvorov, in your understanding, are traitors. This is your squalor!
        History, like economics, must be known and understood! Know not by newspaper articles of the period of stagnation and firsthand!
        Thirdly, we are really different, although we read the same sites (sometimes). And this should not be considered an insult. This is an objective reality! Therefore, I do not consider it appropriate or useful to communicate with you (as you put it, “write to you about the economy”)! Although, if I need to enlighten you about some economic theories, doctrines or terms, I think I could have done it in another place, since I’ve been enlightened a little more in this area and have experience in teaching economics at a university. But this is not bravado! And leave your pygmy hints about something “waterfowl and not sinking” with you: it’s more likely just about you!
        Henceforth, my dear, keep your mouth shut and think about what the hell!
        1. Yura
          Yura 20 May 2013 09: 55 New
          Quote: KOPALYCH
          This is your squalor!

          Quote: KOPALYCH
          And your pygmy hints

          Quote: KOPALYCH
          Henceforth, my dear, keep your mouth shut and think about what the hell!

          Quote: KOPALYCH
          I am enlightened in this area and have experience in teaching economics at a university.

          Quote: KOPALYCH
          we are really different,

          God forbid to be different from you. You forgot to add that you are still a deeply intelligent person. Speak about the experience of teaching economics at a university, then I understand why why we have few really effective economists.
    3. ImPerts
      ImPerts 22 May 2013 13: 41 New
      Quote: KOPALYCH
      And real managers, such as Mikhail Prokhorov,

      He laughed (to say the least). What he really managed to do was to carry out a bl @ dei plane for a competition in Courchevel (official version from lawyers).
  17. slacker
    slacker 22 June 2013 22: 21 New
    When I hear the word economics, I grab onto the gun