Russian television 9 May 2013 of the year disgraced Russia

412


I am ashamed of those who lead Russia. I am ashamed of those who run Russian television. And it hurts me so much for the heroes who defeated fascism.

So, 9 May, during a minute of silence, a phrase about the victorious heroes was heard on all the main Russian TV channels:

YOU, WHO'S CLOSE AND FAMILY HAVE PASSED THROUGH THE STALIN CAMPS, YOU HAVE LIBERATED WITH OSVENTSIM, BUCHENVALD AND DAHAU ...

Probably, the authors of this text are very close relatives of the notorious de-Stalinizer Mikhail Fedotov, who for some reason misunderstanding, still holds the post of chairman of the Human Rights Council.

For even the underdeveloped idiot knows that now in Russia there are as many in prisons as they were under Stalin. And in the US even more.

But most importantly, because of this phrase, you can only draw three conclusions:

During the war, each soldier, officer and general someone sat. In total, about 37 million people passed through the Red Army. Therefore, sat the same. But this is a blatant lie.

Fascism was won not by free people and heroes, but by relatives of prisoners, for whom the fear of entering the camp was stronger than the fear of death. But this is a blatant lie.

Only those from whom someone was sitting fought well. But this is a blatant lie.

It turns out that there was no Victory ... But not heroes fought against fascism, but slaves, for whom the fear of entering the Stalinist camps was worse than the fear of death.

Disgusting. Disgusting. Disgusting.

I really want this article to be considered an official appeal to the UK and the Prosecutor General's Office.

And with great pleasure I will drink front 100 grams, when someone is removed from work and convicted of the betrayal of the heroes of his people.
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  1. xerus.sb
    +99
    10 May 2013 07: 11
    I do not think about chance! Vile! Dirty!
    1. -100
      10 May 2013 08: 03
      But you need to think ..

      the author of this scribble would learn Russian language ...
      During the war, each soldier, officer and general someone sat. In total, about 37 million people passed through the Red Army. Therefore, sat the same. But this is a blatant lie.
      belay where does the text say what everyone has?
      if you follow his logic, then he could write that 37 million were burning near Prokhorovka, 37 million were fighting near Moscow and Stalingrad, etc. .... it’s silly to understand these words so finely and provocatively translate them into numbers.
      quote from the text:"You stood to death near Moscow and Stalingrad, carried bread to besieged Leningrad, burned in a tank near Prokhorovka. By dying you saved millions of lives. You who lost loved ones in Stalin's camps" why didn’t it generalize?
      1. YARY
        +135
        10 May 2013 15: 51
        SW Gleb
        Broadcasting to the WORLD, it is necessary as if you are breathing on a candle.
        I was not born yesterday, and I know about penal battalions and arrests, but (!), Any phrases in this particular case that cast or can cast a shadow over the FACE and MEMORY do not have the right to be.
        To argue or study, take it on the sidelines and library circles.
        1. andrre122
          +23
          10 May 2013 16: 05
          Keep
          1. -85
            10 May 2013 17: 07
            During the Stalinist regime, they planted without trial. There were a lot of innocents. I have a repressed family. A patriot is one who loves his homeland, what does Stalin have to do with it? Our leading designers, such as Korolev, also sat ... Say, they sat at work? Now they are also sitting in the USA, but CRIMINALS AND BY THE RESOLUTION OF THE COURT !!!
            1. -102
              10 May 2013 17: 13
              That's right, Alexander, and I'm about the same. To love a country is spread out by hundreds of thousands of its people, it’s not in Russian somehow.
              1. +61
                10 May 2013 19: 02
                As one of the ancients said: "Tyranny is a great love for people, but not enough faith in them!" And about: "mustache sat!" no need to read Solzhenitsyn at night. Even on this site there are a bunch of articles on who, when and how untwisted the flywheel of repression, for what they were imprisoned, etc. etc. And those who were in prison did not wave their jails much, even after the 20th Congress of the CPSU, and not out of fear, Rokosovsky is an example of this, or Meretskov, or Gorbatov. And a lot of them.
                Frinovsky or Yezhov as a victim of Stalin, I hope, you will not dignify. A lot of people sat down to work, and despite all the liberal tricks and condemnation of the "Stalinist terror" they have not yet been rehabilitated. The most useful thing is to read the memoirs of the inmates, where half of them, describing life in the camps, write that they were firmly convinced of the erroneousness of their own sentence, but the fairness of these sentences for the neighbors in the barracks.
                1. +42
                  10 May 2013 22: 04
                  Solzhenitsyn is another provocateur
                  1. -11
                    11 May 2013 12: 19
                    justify please.
                    1. +13
                      11 May 2013 13: 15
                      justify what? That all his figures breathe poison and malice? What does he only write about the skin? That more than once he shouted on the air, "Send Atoms to the Russians"? What spits on holy dates? That he dared to humiliate a soldier? What else can you justify?
                  2. -6
                    11 May 2013 13: 10
                    Can you confirm this?
                    1. +2
                      11 May 2013 13: 19
                      yes please http://www.dm-dobrov.ru/collections/solg.html
                      1. -3
                        11 May 2013 14: 59
                        Only archival documents can be convincing.
                      2. +14
                        11 May 2013 19: 02
                        The young man works of Solzhenitsyn himself are the archive in this case. Read carefully and you will see that AI constantly calls on the United States to war with the USSR - that is, with your country including using atomic weapons. Only real traitors and provocateurs can deal with such abomination. http://www.dm-dobrov.ru/history/warning.html read carefully not the works of socialists like me, but specifically about whom you are so worried about. I didn’t come up with a line - only the AI ​​itself.
                2. alexandr00070
                  +5
                  10 May 2013 23: 30
                  Quote: nnz226
                  Even on this site there are a bunch of articles about who, when and how unwound the flywheel of repression, for what they planted, etc. etc.

                  On this occasion, there is an interesting documentary series "Stalin with us." There is just popular, documentary, it is shown and proven who is to blame for the repressions, how they happened, etc. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOiARPs6Mnw - this is a link, and there are all the series next to it
                  1. +1
                    11 May 2013 13: 57
                    Quote: alexandr00070
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOiARPs6Mnw --это ссылка ,а там рядом все серии

                    I already watched part of the series. I agree with all of the above. But what does the personality of Stalin have to do with it when I write about the Stalin regime. Stalin is a man, and I am talking about the state regime, which is a set of norms, methods and ways of governing the state, through its many bodies and committees, etc. Stalin, this is one man, this is not a state. The Stalinist regime is the name of the state system of that period, of course it would be more correct to write the State regime of the period of Stalin's rule, but it is too long ...
                    I wrote here about the regime, and not about Stalin. The peculiarity of this regime was that the rule of law was not implemented in an exceptional form, as well as the principle that only a court can determine guilt. So, as it is now in any legal state, including Russia. And I’m sure that any of you would not want the three NKVD officers to determine his guilt with partiality ... each of you, if a criminal case is brought against him, will most likely count on an impartial, reasonable and lawful court decision, and not employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or the FSB. Do not fool yourself ... at least ...

                    God forbid, of course, if a criminal case is initiated against one of you, will you resort to the help of a lawyer like cute ones, or are you ready for your fate to be decided by a memorandum of some investigator? Or maybe you are ready to "sit down" on the denunciation of your neighbor?

                    And let’s say this: Who is against Putin’s regime in Russia, huh? TO THE WALL !!! Do you agree? And only because someone considered your position regarding the state UNACCEPTABLE ...
                    1. alexandr00070
                      0
                      11 May 2013 17: 02
                      Quote: alex-defensor
                      But what does the personality of Stalin have to do with it when I write about the Stalin regime.

                      Maybe the regime was communist, the leaders changed for 80 years, but the regime remained. At different times of the regime, there were shoals of all the rulers, if you read more materials about those times, you would know that Stalin, and any ruler, including Putin, do not have full power, and then and now there are people who they want to destroy the indigenous population of Russia more; the Khazars in Russia have not yet been transferred. And by the way, in the so-called Putin regime, there are quite a few Khazars and they are conducting their invisible battle, ruining the Russian economy, etc.
                3. -4
                  11 May 2013 13: 21
                  Quote: nnz226
                  mustache sat! "no need to read Solzhenitsyn at night

                  I didn’t read Solzhenitsin, and I don’t want to read ... he does not inspire confidence in me. However, there were repressions, this is a fact.

                  Quote: nnz226
                  A bunch of people sat at work

                  And no one says that everyone was sitting for nothing. The problem is precisely that there were quite a few innocent people. People were imprisoned without ships. That is, there was no prosecutor, no lawyer, no judicial composition, there were no court hearings, there were no motions and appeals, there was not even such a principle necessary for any legal state legality, although, however, you hardly understand what it is.

                  All those who advocate the restoration of the Stalinist regime in modern Russia are fools. And if their wishes, God forbid, come true, they themselves will either curry favor with this regime, like scoundrels, or they will howl from it ... so be careful with desires, they sometimes come true.
                4. psdf
                  +1
                  11 May 2013 13: 54
                  Quote: nnz226
                  e need Solzhenitsyn to read at night

                  I hope that the study of all Solzhenitsyn and Shalamov from the secondary school program has already been removed.
              2. +6
                10 May 2013 19: 42
                Jews from the TV.

                http://www.sem40.ru/famous2/e259.shtml





                It would seem that these "artists" of the white ribbon style have in common:
                The writer has published a list of those who will go for a walk with him: Dmitry Bykov, Sergey Gandlevsky, Dmitry Glukhovsky, Leonid Zorin, Alexei Kortnev, Julia Latynina, Andrey Makarevich, Sergey Parkhomenko, Lev Rubinstein, Lyudmila Ulitskaya, Irina Yasina.

                http://news.mail.ru/inregions/moscow/90/politics/8929631/?frommail=1

                1.
                http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/159869/
                (Yasina)

                2.
                http://zelikm.com/news/2010/03/05/%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%



                B8%D1%87-%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B9-%D0%B2%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%


                BC%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87-%D1%80-1953-%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81/
                (Makarevich)

                3.
                http://www.peoples.ru/art/literature/prose/roman/ulitskaya/interview3.html
                (Ulitskaya)

                4.
                http://www.jewish.ru/culture/events/2010/09/news994288796.php
                (Rubinstein)

                5.
                http://zelikm.com/news/2010/03/09/%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%


                BD%D0%BA%D0%BE-%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B9-%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%


                81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87-%D1%80-1964-%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8/
                (Parkhomenko)


                6.
                Bykov (Zilbertrud)
                http://www.ejwiki.org/wiki/%D0%91%D1%8B%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%94%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1

                %82%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%9B%D1%8C%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87

                7.
                (Zorin)
                http://www.sem40.ru/famous2/e696.shtml

                And this is only for those who have accurate data on the Internet.
                The rest, not listed by reference, are also under a big question (in particular, Glukhovsky and Gandlevsky). cool.gif
                1. alexandr00070
                  +4
                  10 May 2013 23: 35
                  Quote: GreatRussia
                  Jews from TV


                  Who would doubt that
                  1. +2
                    10 May 2013 23: 40
                    Quote: alexandr00070
                    Who would doubt that

                    Heh, well, there were some, quietly minusanuv five times, afraid to openly object.
                    I did not like the truth.)))
                    1. alexandr00070
                      +1
                      10 May 2013 23: 53
                      Quote: GreatRussia
                      Heh, well, there were some, quietly minusanuv five times, afraid to openly object.
                      I did not like the truth.)))

                      There are far from five of them, just the holidays have not all pulled themselves up. many hide their origin, but VIKI is not sleeping. I was shocked by this information (in the line of origin - grandparents on the father's side)
                      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%FB%F1%EE%F6%EA%E8%E9,_%C2%EB%E0%E4%E8%EC%E8%F0_
                      %D1%E5%EC%B8%ED%EE%E2%E8%F7#.D0.A1.D0.B5.D0.BC.D1.8C.D1.8F
                  2. kosmos44
                    0
                    11 May 2013 05: 41
                    Quote: alexandr00070
                    Who would doubt that


                    And from the government?
                    1. alexandr00070
                      +2
                      11 May 2013 11: 14
                      Quote: kosmos44
                      And from the government?

                      those from the government who control those from television
                2. kosmos44
                  +4
                  11 May 2013 05: 50
                  Quote: GreatRussia
                  (Makarevich)


                  In our country, surnames are transferred from the husband (mostly), and among Jews, nationality is transferred from the mother. So, what a Jew he is, my grandmother said in two. It seems not 90s already, that would be so promoting yourself! Like, I'm ready for anything, just to get out of here. But young Makarevich, frankly, was more to my heart. In his years, in my opinion, the "roof" went.
                  1. alexandr00070
                    +5
                    11 May 2013 11: 12
                    Quote: kosmos44
                    In his years, in my opinion, the "roof" went.

                    the roof didn’t go, but the Khazar genes woke up and, well, let Russia fail like Kasparov, etc.
                  2. 0
                    11 May 2013 13: 14
                    For Jews, nationality is determined by the paternal side of the Coens and Levites, and the remaining tribes on the maternal side.
                    Learn materiel. Read the Old Testament.
              3. Atlon
                +28
                10 May 2013 21: 22
                Quote: zart_arn
                To love a country is spread out by hundreds of thousands of its people, it’s not in Russian somehow.

                Not in Russian, this is to take on faith all that nonsense that we have been fed for the last 20 years! At least half of them repeat like parrots about "Stalin's camps", about "without trial or investigation," and about "millions of repressed". Thank God, only half! For, 5-7 years ago, it was a good 90-95%! It means that something is changing in our brains, and this cannot but rejoice. I cannot but admit that I myself reasoned like this 10 years ago, confused and disoriented by the lies that gushed from the screens. But, I began to think, analyze, study and realized that they just lie to us. What for? This is a different question.
                As for the subject itself, I agree with the author, an abomination. The Soviet text of a moment of silence was not an example more correct.
              4. alexandr00070
                +24
                10 May 2013 23: 25
                Quote: zart_arn
                To love a country is spread out by hundreds of thousands of its people, it’s not in Russian somehow

                Gnobya ??????????? Under Stalin, the population growth was colossal, people were not afraid to give birth, they were confident in the future, and this just tells Stalin the right behavior, and now, comrades, are we going the right way? ???????????????????????????
              5. +3
                11 May 2013 02: 56
                zart_arn To love a country is spread out by hundreds of thousands of its people, it’s not in Russian somehow. - This must be addressed primarily to the leader of the current regime.
                Aren't you tired of digging in the bones? Do not touch the holy memory of fallen Warriors. A moment of silence is intended to honor the memory of the dead and dead by SILENCE, and not to carry nonsense approved and paid by the authorities.
                Shame and abomination!
              6. Van
                +3
                11 May 2013 14: 18
                Well, if everyone why so believes in this, it means someone has done their vile deed, because even half of all the accusations against Stalin have not been proved by anyone, but only skillfully served to our average person in the form of noodles with skillful seasoning and sauce corroding a weak human brain, which apart from Western perception and urging, he is no longer capable of anything.

                Take at least one example, the debunking of the personality cult of I.V. Stalin by N.S. Khrushchev himself who fought for power by similar methods, and what we will see, he just started all that dirty search company
                compromising materials and dirt that touched on Stalin’s personality and affairs in the slightest degree. But the most interesting thing is that instead of taking and actually revealing the whole truth to people, it has been hidden in the archives and has been kept secret for the time being.
                Therefore, to assert with precision that something "FOR" and "AGAINST" JV Stalin. At the moment until all the secret archives are disclosed, I consider it simply baseless chatter or someone's personal enmity. hi
              7. sashka
                -1
                11 May 2013 16: 23
                Quote: zart_arn
                To love a country is spread out by hundreds of thousands of its people, it’s not in Russian somehow.

                8 seventy thousand. Maybe this is talking about something ... your words. I have nothing to do with it.
            2. YARY
              +71
              10 May 2013 17: 20
              I'm deeply lilac about who and how much is in SyShyA, since this gang is not an indicator- (Guantanamo Bay, prisons in Iraq, East Geyropa, torture and bullying in them)
              But be that as it may, sweetheart, there are things which cannot be stolen.
              For twenty years there has been an orgy of smearing with slops the shrines around which the Russian people were (and maybe WILL BE) rallied. It's time to end it. And when I say "finish," I say-to distribute Ramzuly to everyone who dares or dares to utter a word against the wind.
              And you need to start with those who shit on the air.


              SUSHYA threw hundreds of thousands of its citizens into the camps simply because they were of Japanese descent. WITHOUT COURT.
              Something I did not hear repentant speeches from their politicians?
              1. -45
                10 May 2013 17: 33
                Quote: Ardent
                I'm deeply lilac about who and how much is in SyShyA, since this gang is not an indicator


                It is somehow not right to treat the common people of the United States like that. There are the same people, women, children, they also give birth, love. Yes, they were hung up on their ears, but this does not make them scoundrels. The gang is not a people, but a global transnational elite. It should be a shame to treat people like that. And about "pakhabit" ..., the blind are blessedbut the facts, even though they cut eyes, are even a stubborn thing. REPRESSIONS WERE, and our people fought for their homeland, for women and children, for their home ... that's all!

                And then we have people especially didn’t spare, that’s why there were such victims and concentration camps ...
                1. YARY
                  +22
                  10 May 2013 17: 44
                  the blind are blessed, but the facts, even though they cut eyes, are stubborn

                  alex-defensor
                  If you don’t care where to catch lice and where to cook borsch, then learn from those who understand, but you don’t have to defend stupidity, you may not understand your stubbornness.
                  On this day, there is no right to speak about such things as it was done! All point.
                  1. -33
                    10 May 2013 18: 37
                    Quote: Ardent
                    If you don’t care where to catch lice and where to cook borsch

                    Somehow wrong, to object, starting with an insult ?!
                    Quote: Ardent
                    learn from understanding

                    He studied, believe me .. I studied a lot and not only studied, but also thought, analyzed! But what if those who consider themselves "understanding" are in fact deeply mistaken in their "understanding"?
                    Quote: Ardent
                    You may not understand your stubbornness

                    Isn't it like that?
                    Quote: Ardent
                    On this day, there is no right to speak about such things as it was done! All point

                    I think it is right that on that day they also remembered the offended, humiliated, ruined by the regime, putting them on a par with all our heroic people. Some of them could and would become a hero of the war if he had not been killed in the 37th. Now more than ever, we need unity. We must remember all the fallen!

                    I am concerned about the growing tendency among our people aimed at rehabilitating Stalin's personality and "whitening" the Stalinist regime. This is an example of the statement of Kurginyan, Starikov, and other public figures ... what to do with this?
                    1. +13
                      10 May 2013 19: 52
                      Quote: alex-defensor
                      I think it is right that on that day they also remembered the offended, humiliated, ruined by the regime, putting them on a par with all our heroic people. Some of them could and would become a hero of the war if he had not been killed in the 37th.

                      Let's also remember the "innocently" murdered Kolchak, Trotsky, and father Makhno. Some of them could also become a hero of that War. Then let's move on to the People's Will, the Decembrists. Their children could become heroes. And so on until the archers, hanged by Peter.
                      Why am I doing this? Everything has its time. There is no need, with or without reason, to remind us of the Stalinist camps. We remember about them. And then on the "Day of Remembrance of the Victims of Political Repressions" will have to remember All the veterans of the Great Patriotic War. “You, too, could have become victims of repression, but you didn’t, because you died for the Motherland.” - some idiocy.
                      1. -4
                        10 May 2013 20: 05
                        Quote: man in the street
                        Let's also remember the "innocently" murdered Kolchak, Trotsky, and father Makhno. Some of them could also become a hero of that War. Then let's move on to the People's Will, the Decembrists. Their children could become heroes. And so on until the archers, hanged by Peter.

                        1. No need to mock and all under one comb. You are not ashamed to put Kolchak Alexander Vasilievich, a Russian (white) officer, scientist, polar explorer on a par with Makhno and Trotsky on a par. That's where the hatred of everything Russian smelled! Decembrists are also rascals? For what? And what does the time of Peter have to do with it?
                        2. The whole situation with repressions was in many respects connected with a huge threat to the USSR from the side of Western countries and their sabotage activities, so repressed can also be considered fallen because of this confrontation between the Soviet Union and the Imperialists.
                      2. +8
                        10 May 2013 20: 57
                        Why didn’t Makhno please you? He fought for the peasants, beat the Germans, Petliurists. But Trotsky, too, was among other things a very educated man. And argued with Stalin, not afraid to defend his point of view. But Kolchak, I completely agree with you, only my great-grandfather, Kolchakites shot me in the 18th. Not fair by the way. He was for the people. Therefore, he is for me, (like Stalin for you), a negative hero.
                        But seriously, then All this is to let May 9th remember those who gave their lives and health for the Victory in that terrible war, and October 30th to recall innocently convicted, because unfortunately there weren’t any few.
                      3. 0
                        11 May 2013 12: 55
                        Quote: man in the street
                        Why didn’t Makhno please you? He fought for the peasants, beat the Germans, Petliurists. But Trotsky, too, was among other things a very educated man. And he argued with Stalin, was not afraid to defend his point of view.

                        Yes, what are you? Leiba Davidovich Bronstein (Trotsky) simply hated the Russian people, which he didn’t even hide ... and do you compare this person with Kolchak? What was going on on the site? People, what are you?
                      4. +1
                        11 May 2013 16: 35
                        Quote: alex-defensor
                        and you compare this person with Kolchak?

                        Yes, I did not compare them, dear. Just listed. If in secret, he named the first names that came to mind, who were not Stalin's "friends".
                        Now to the point. Do you know Lev Davidovich so well? Maybe they did a revolution together? Or were in exile? Or, again, again from the books. So they were written under Stalin, but there it was impossible otherwise. According to Kolchak, by the way, the same thing. All from other people's words. Just don’t think that I praise Trotsky or denounce Kolchak. God forbid.
                        It was just that they were bright, extraordinary personalities who left their mark on the history of our country. Therefore, the first came to mind.
                      5. +2
                        12 May 2013 02: 52
                        Quote: alex-defensor
                        Leiba Davidovich Bronstein (Trotsky) simply hated the Russian people, which he didn’t even hide ... and do you compare this person with Kolchak?

                        What was Kolchak tried and shot for? Because he was royal admiral? Not. The Irkutsk Military Revolutionary Committee sentenced the admiral to be shot for organizing military operations against Soviet Russia and mass repressions against civilians and the Red Army.
                        In Yekaterinburg province, one of the 12 provinces controlled by Kolchak, at least 25 thousand people were executed under Kolchak, and about 10% of the two millionth population was outraged. Flogged both men and women and children.
                        The merciless attitude of Kolchak's punishers towards the workers and peasants provoked mass uprisings. As A. L. Litvin notes about Kolchak’s regime, “it’s difficult to talk about supporting his policy in Siberia and the Urals if out of about 400 thousand red partisans of that time, 150 thousand acted against him, and among them 4 — 5% were prosperous peasants, or, as they were then called, kulaks ”
                      6. +10
                        10 May 2013 22: 34
                        Alex! Take off the Soviet shoulder strap, remove the Soviet air defense system from your avatar, then your beloved Kolchak - whose hands are on his shoulders in Russian blood - and shield them. A-z-z-th, in the film "Admiral" such a positive hero was shown! And the people, the sailor and the soldier - bastards, killed the officers-admirals - not good !!! Read the memoirs of those who had to face the hordes of this "vaunted scientist-researcher" ... And whose instructions he followed, and with whose weapons he fought against his people ... And what about Peter? So he, like Stalin, in your opinion, ruined hundreds of thousands of Russian people ... And why? Russia had to be raised, Stalin also, by the way. And there is no need to politicize the situation on such a SACRED HOLIDAY - VICTORY DAY. Remember the repressions not today - today is ETERNAL MEMORY of the victims of fascism.
                      7. +2
                        10 May 2013 22: 39
                        Quote: REZMovec
                        Alex! Remove the Soviet epaulette, remove the Soviet air defense system from the avatar,


                        wassat This is not a sight. And absolutely not Soviet. Someone indulged in capitalist Photoshop
                      8. 0
                        11 May 2013 03: 39
                        Perhaps I was mistaken - the profile picture is too small ...
                      9. -6
                        11 May 2013 13: 12
                        Quote: Spade
                        And absolutely not Soviet. Someone indulged in capitalist Photoshop


                        OOOO !!! DAAAA !!! I feel I would have been shot, I would have been the 37th ... Thank God that Russia is not in the hands of such stranglers as all those who justify the Stalinist regime.
                      10. 0
                        11 May 2013 15: 12
                        They could have shot you too, but if your relatives or neighbors needed your room in the communal apartment and they wrote the corresponding denunciation to you without such a document, even then you would not even be interested in the OGPU-NKVD.
                      11. -3
                        11 May 2013 13: 06
                        Quote: REZMovec
                        Alex! Remove the Soviet epaulette, remove the Soviet air defense system from the avatar

                        I do not need to point out, no one gave you that right - this time.
                        Not SAM, but self-propelled guns - these are two.

                        Do you live in the USA?

                        Quote: REZMovec
                        your beloved Kolchak - whose hands are up to his shoulders in Russian blood - and shield them. A-z-z-th, in the film "Admiral" such a positive hero was shown! And the people, the sailor and the soldier - bastards, killed the officers-admirals - not good !!!

                        I didn’t watch the film, but thanks for the advice, I’ll definitely watch it. However, anti-Russian propaganda is deeply rooted in you ... or maybe it’s not about propaganda, maybe you are distorting Russian history quite consciously?

                        Quote: REZMovec
                        And what about Peter? So he, like Stalin, in your opinion, ruined hundreds of thousands of Russian people ... And why? Russia had to be raised, Stalin, too, by the way

                        So I believe that it is legitimate for Peter the Great to commit these acts. However, you must understand that in those days it was everywhere. No need to compare with the XNUMXth century. You probably wouldn’t talk like that about the state need, if, for example, now, in the interests of building a canal, you would arrest your brother, whom you wouldn’t return alive. What can you say to this, Stalin’s singers? Are you ready to give your relatives to the decay in the name of the construction of the canal, eh?

                        How easily we condemn others to death in the name of the "common good." However, usually, people who reason like this will fight even with a child for their lives ... INCORRECTLY!
                      12. 0
                        11 May 2013 14: 57
                        I do not need to point out, no one gave you that right - this time.
                        Not SAM, but self-propelled guns - these are two.
                        Do you live in the USA?

                        And only the USA can indicate to you ???
                        I don't care about them, I'm a SOVIET MAN! I have never been a Russophobe, I am for the fraternal union of the Slavs ... I do not twist the history - I just study more widely than some. And the channel was dug by those who, by the decision of the COURT, were imprisoned. And there were ten times more criminals than political ones. I also want to remind you - "who is not with us is against us." And to paraphrase the saying of one of your "democrats", Colonel Colt, - "a good enemy is a dead enemy." Do not think that I am bloodthirsty, no. I just don't want to get stabbed in the back - the "fifth column" is not asleep, unfortunately ...
                      13. +1
                        12 May 2013 18: 22
                        Attempts were made by legal means to justify the Supreme Ruler of Russia, but in January 1999 Mr. Military Court of the Trans-Baikal Military District declared him not subject to rehabilitationand then the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation also did not find grounds for this [8, p. 36].
                        Why are you stirring up Kolchak? When will you calm down? Kolchak made a mess so that even your "democratic" court did not rehabilitate him.
                      14. pavlec007
                        +16
                        10 May 2013 21: 28
                        Quote: man in the street
                        Let's also remember the "innocently" murdered Kolchak, Trotsky, and father Makhno. Some of them could also become a hero of that War.

                        Well, let's just say that Trotsky was well removed, because when he was appointed chairman of the Military Revolutionary Council, he did not listen to knowledgeable people and did as he saw fit, did not spare people, changed managers to people who were true to himself, even if he was completely zero in military affairs. Well, it’s no secret that Lev Davydovich was against the revival of the economy and industry of Russia and shouted that they were GIVING A WORLD REVOLUTION. And all in order to turn Russia into someone else's raw materials appendage, preferably a Jewish one.
                      15. RUS-36
                        +1
                        10 May 2013 23: 41
                        100% agree with you.
                      16. RUS-36
                        +4
                        10 May 2013 23: 39
                        About Trotsky it’s not necessary, it’s that cattle .. Jew’s .. it’s inappropriate to put him in one place with Kolchak ..
                    2. Atlon
                      +13
                      10 May 2013 21: 42
                      Quote: alex-defensor
                      I am concerned about the growing tendency among our people aimed at rehabilitating Stalin's personality and "whitening" the Stalinist regime. This is an example of the statement of Kurginyan, Starikov, and other public figures ... what to do with this?

                      You are worried ... It's good, when a person is worried about something, then he at least thinks. Just tell me, WHERE do you know about "Stalin's atrocities"? Here is real, where? Have you read the archives? Have you been an eyewitness? Did you communicate with eyewitnesses? (with how many?). After all, all our "knowledge" about "repressions" is drawn from cinematic artifacts of the last two decades, several dubious TV shows, and loud statements by "handshake" liberals. So why do you, as a thinking person, prefer to take dubious sources at their word, instead of trying to figure it out for yourself, since "it bothers you"?
                      1. -7
                        10 May 2013 22: 03
                        Dear Pavel! I didn’t believe anyone's word, and I don’t believe, about the millions killed during the years of repression, too, but, alas, there were hundreds of thousands. Nearby in the city there is one beautiful place .. Beautiful, if only not for hundreds of graves there, graves of 36 - 38 years of the 20th century. One of many similar ones in our long-suffering land. And it was discovered by chance, and after only the relatives of the murdered who as they could put modest posts. I looked at the photographs of 17 - 19 year old "enemies of the people" and I was ashamed. For myself, for my relatives, for my people. After all, it was we who, with our silence or enthusiastic approval, allowed or are allowing such an attitude towards us. No great idea or great power is worth the lives of those guys (I don't like the word kid, it's not Russian, it is abusive).
                      2. Atlon
                        +8
                        10 May 2013 22: 25
                        Quote: zart_arn
                        No great idea or great power is worth the lives of those guys

                        Emotionally, but unsubstantiated. It turns out that you draw conclusions about Stalin's "atrocities" based on physiognomy ?! belay Your will, sir, but at least it’s strange ...
                        And you didn’t answer my questions. And they did not study the documents of those executed, which means that the conversation is useless ...
                        Maybe someday, Putin will be blamed for the "atrocities" in the fight against terrorists who died innocently in the "struggle for freedom" and were destroyed without trial ... Perhaps not the best example, I agree. With arms in hand, they oppose themselves to the state. But others are more dangerous ... Nemtsov, Navalny, Kasparov, Sobchak and others like them. This is who you need to destroy, but you can't! Repression ... What about thieves, bribe-takers, saboteurs? Everyone shouts: "Put Serdyukov in prison!" Isn't this repression? And where did you get (from the photographs ?!) that the executed, angels in the flesh?
                      3. -3
                        10 May 2013 22: 37
                        I know personally some of the repressed (or rather knew) and their relatives. Fortunately, my ancestors in a straight line famously passed it. Tell me, Pavel, have you ever been taken by law enforcement agencies "by mistake"? They took me here, poked me with a pistol in the back of my head, but after figuring it out they let me go and even apologized. And if then the troika was put on trial? No, Pavel, we no longer need such a "order", and the current rising generation will not allow it, it is much more progmatic than we are.
                      4. Atlon
                        +11
                        10 May 2013 22: 44
                        Quote: zart_arn
                        and the current younger generation will not allow it, it is much more pragmatic than us.

                        Oh, I doubt it ... In addition to the "yaga" (alcoholic cocktail "Jaguar"), the page "VKontakte", and the jumble of false information provided by the liberalistic media, they have nothing in their heads ... Neither principles nor aspirations (except as a "beautiful" life), no dedication, no love for the Motherland ... Generation "next" is a torn chunk. True, not all. But nevertheless ... These are ideal slaves, as in the USA. And no matter what anyone touches. So if something happens, they will race to "knock" at each other, just not to get into circulation.
                      5. -4
                        10 May 2013 23: 07
                        The education and culture of today's young people, of course, have let down, but the ability to think soberly and analyze cannot be taken away from them. We were the zombie robots, not them. Not all and not all schools, but an increasing number of schoolchildren are drawn to knowledge, as we used to call "planes". For example, at one time I only became a "plane" at the university. Today many people began to understand the value of knowledge from childhood. Unfortunately, the country that was under the Soviet system will never exist. I think that today's youth will succeed. Let's not interfere with them and drag them into the past, enough of us revolutions.
                      6. alexandr00070
                        +4
                        10 May 2013 23: 44
                        Quote: zart_arn
                        The current many began to understand the value of knowledge from childhood. The country that was under the Soviet system, unfortunately, will never be. I think that something will work out in today's youth. We will not interfere with them and drag them into the past, enough revolutions from us.

                        only you forgot that knowledge is now not the same, duped knowledge. Yes, and testing knowledge is not so hot, one exam which is worth
                      7. +2
                        11 May 2013 13: 07
                        My youngest son is 20 years old. Since childhood, I raised him as a patriot, but thinking. I never imposed my relationship to IW on Stalin. I myself just recently decided exactly. So he read a lot, comparing, thinking, firmly became the defender of Soviet history, led by Stalin and is actively fighting on the Internet in various forums. And I think, God forbid, the war will begin, he will be among the first to go to the front. And your children, if you have a line, it seems to me, will be hiding in the basement.
                      8. Kaa
                        +8
                        10 May 2013 23: 41
                        Quote: Atlon
                        No principles, no aspirations (except for a "beautiful" life), no selflessness, no love for the Motherland ... Generation "next" is a torn off piece.
                        In Zaporozhye on the 9th, I would not say that. Fashion (bad and alien) can and should be easily replaced by truth. The photo does not show the real scale, but I was there, these children talked about the war in their own words, not cliches, quite intelligibly and consonant with the statements of the majority on this site ... which, alas, cannot be said about the Center and the West ... "This morning in Zaporozhye, more than 35 thousand citizens came to the parade of generations dedicated to the 68th anniversary of the Victory in order to honor the memory of the fallen Soviet soldiers and pay tribute to the living heroes.
                        Before the start of the solemn procession, the leaders of the city and Zaporizhzhya region laid flowers on the mass grave on the Walk of Fame.
                        After that, the parade was launched from Shevchenko Boulevard to the port named after Lenin. The procession was led by a column of retro cars from the Great Patriotic War. As the head of the retro club Dmitry Poznyak told the “New Region”, this year the record number of cars is participating at the festival - about 30.
                        Veterans, combatants rode on open platforms. During the movement, the Cossacks planted their children to them. And the kids presented spring flowers to former soldiers.
                        Following the participants of the Second World War, representatives of the authorities marched. The archbishop of Melitopol and Zaporizhzhya Luka also took part in the parade.
                        At the end of the column were the townspeople. They carried posters with the names of the districts of the city and various posters with slogans.
                        Among the most popular slogans on this day was "No to neo-fascism."
                        The threat of modern fascism was also announced by the head of the Zaporizhzhya region, Alexander Peklushenko.
                        “Some politicians want to rename May 9 as a day of sorrow, a day of remembrance, not Victory. Because they did not want this Victory, - the governor noted. - Not to tell them how to name streets and what to do with monuments. Not a single street will be renamed in Zaporizhzhya region, not a single monument will be demolished. And no matter how these disguise themselves, not one of their boots will cross the borders of our region! We won the war, but we still need to achieve peace. "
                        NR2.ru: http://www.nr2.ru/zaporozhia/437856.html
                      9. Kaa
                        +2
                        10 May 2013 23: 46
                        Quote: Kaa
                        More than 35 thousand citizens took part in the parade of generations dedicated to the 68th anniversary of the Victory
                        Sorry, some kind of glitch, the photo does not cling ...
                      10. Kaa
                        +4
                        10 May 2013 23: 51
                        Here is a video report
                      11. +2
                        11 May 2013 11: 05
                        Dear!
                        If there are photos
                        Quote: zart_arn
                        and after that only the relatives of the murdered put up modest columns as best they could. I looked at the photos of 17 - 19 year old "enemies of the people"
                        on "columns 36-38 years № - this is a remake. Who has that kind of money when our living are in poverty? That's right with you, the hamsters. And they are allocated to pinch and humiliate us. Be proud that they are from Russian budget?
                        So this is temporary)). And your time ends)).
                      12. +11
                        10 May 2013 22: 13
                        Quote: Atlon
                        After all, all our "knowledge" about "repressions" is drawn from cinematic artifacts of the last two decades, several dubious TV shows, and loud statements by "handshake" liberals.

                        I support, Pavel! Moreover, I believe that such a text was approved at the very top, because otherwise, during the Parades and Celebrations on May 9, it would be necessary to hang the portraits of Comrade I.V. Stalin! And they were? From the official design of the square, streets, etc.? And so - since they said that there were "victims in the Stalinist camps", that's why there are no portraits. Disingenuous up there. Oh, how they are cunning! To be afraid of recognition and howling from Europe and the United States. When will they start telling the truth without looking back at these liberals?
                      13. Kaa
                        +4
                        11 May 2013 00: 09
                        Quote: Egoza
                        it would be necessary to hang portraits of comrade I.V. Stalin!
                        We had dozens of them in our hands ...
                    3. +1
                      11 May 2013 13: 29
                      Talk about "unity" and they themselves are oil on fire - here the majority of members of the forum. honor their history and do not like de-Stalinizers and you are talking about unity - you are the first and walk in the left column.
                2. andrre122
                  +11
                  10 May 2013 17: 50
                  "For twenty years there has been an orgy of smearing the shrines with slops around which the Russian people were (and may be) rallied. It's time to end this."
                  Another victim of desovetization.
                  One has already agreed.
                  The President called on UPA and Red Army veterans to reconcile.

                  http://news2000.com.ua/news/sobytija/v-ukraine/229431

                  People, people. You can’t alter the Anglo-Saxon nature. Explain to the Indians.
                  1. +6
                    10 May 2013 18: 47
                    Quote: andrre122
                    The President called on UPA and Red Army veterans to reconcile.
                    http://news2000.com.ua/news/sobytija/v-ukraine/229431


                    I ask you, to be more precise, We are still in Russian language, we have the President - Putin, and you write about Yanukovych, so you had to clearly write.

                    By the way, the question is, will you hate the grandson (or son) of a German soldier who fought against the USSR? ME NOT!
                    1. +4
                      10 May 2013 22: 07
                      Quote: alex-defensor
                      By the way, the question is, will you hate the grandson (or son) of a German soldier who fought against the USSR? ME NOT!

                      The time will come when this "grandson" of the fascist will come to Russia with weapons as his ancestor. so we will hate it.
                      1. alexandr00070
                        +2
                        10 May 2013 23: 56
                        Quote: Setrac
                        The time will come when this "grandson" of the fascist will come to Russia with weapons as his ancestor. so we will hate it.

                        What was, as we remember from history, more than once
                3. +1
                  10 May 2013 18: 28
                  but now we are especially 'sorry' turns out!
                4. nickname 1 and 2
                  -1
                  10 May 2013 18: 56
                  Quote: alex-defensor
                  ... It should be a shame to treat people like that. And at the expense of "pakhabit" ..., the blind are blessed with us, but the facts, even though they hurt the eyes, are still a stubborn thing. REPRESSIONS WERE, and our people fought for their homeland


                  Excuse me?
                  I don’t remember that anyone perceived ...... as repression! The people did not understand or thought that there were apparently some reasons!

                  And that's why:
                  If you understand WHAT YOU DO, you will be circumspect and careful. So? And the majority fell for negligence in speech! For anecdote, oversight, etc. When it's possible? When you feel like an "angel"!
                  If it is at the front, then: "nerves" were to blame
                  and the Germans! The Germans worked very hard on the nerves and mental state of our army.
                  And the same special officers were under the same pressure but also plus their leadership i.e. double.

                  Question to the manual i.e. to the CPSU and the Politburo!

                  Someone should have realized that THIS BATTLE OF TANKS DO NOT STOP! besides knowing that these tanks are not penetrable. Thank God that the Molotov cocktail was not long in coming.

                  The complete lack of information is one of the main reasons for the complexity of the defense and the very arrests and that Kolyma!


                  DO NOT NEED TO TRY (APPLY) EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED TO OUR UNIVERSITY!

                  That's when the guys - Georgians drapanul at 08.08.
                  then they experienced in microdose what was happening
                  with our fighters but 100 times more.
                  on the lock = these were not at all such advanced people. Another order of magnitude = they never thought of themselves in this state.

                  And those who came to Kolyma did not know what horror could befall him!
                  He treated his actions with a brow!
                5. borisural
                  +4
                  10 May 2013 20: 01
                  And you, that you are not in the know, that the United States wasn’t and there are no normal ones, or as you say “common people.” TK The state itself was created by thieves, bandits, etc. and so on, who, having learned about the new lands and the wealth in their depths, fled from justice from the Old World! They have in their genes to kill and steal, which they are doing all over the world and ONLY RUSSIA can stop them like IN 1945. fascists !!!
                  1. bezumnyiPIT
                    -8
                    10 May 2013 20: 29
                    The work of stereotypes is visible
                6. +3
                  10 May 2013 21: 14
                  Quote: alex-defensor
                  Somehow it’s not right to relate to the common people of the United States. There are the same people, women, children, they also give birth, love.

                  And these ordinary people, or their sons, husbands, fathers, killed, robbed, raped in captured Germany. They (Americans) blame us (Russians) for their crimes!
                  And nobody in the USSR (in contrast to the West) was not imprisoned without trial!
                7. +2
                  10 May 2013 21: 41
                  Quote: alex-defensor
                  And we didn’t spare people at that time, that's why there were such victims and there were concentration camps ...

                  What does it mean you didn’t spare because there were such victims?
                  in numbers you can indicate who did not regret and what were the victims in connection with the lack of pity ?!
                  about the "concentration camps" I can say one thing, I have always been extremely negative about the article "about three ears of corn", but exactly until I moved to live on earth
                8. Georgs
                  0
                  13 May 2013 11: 50
                  Quote: alex-defensor
                  Somehow it’s not right to relate to the common people of the United States. There are the same people, women, children, they also give birth, love. Yes, they hung noodles on their ears, but that does not make them villains. A gang is not a people, but a global transnational elite. It should be a shame to treat people like this.

                  Oh, let’s run we will love the simple people of the United States, sharply and decisively declare them brothers forever, as they once enrolled in the Chinese brothers. We will convey to them through the Great Water the international proletarian solidarity and merge in some unified impulse.
                  But now the question arises: who is serving in the American army? Transnational Elite? It’s personally she will hide to tear us to the British flag, what should happen? Or are they just plain American guys? By the way, these simple American guys cannot be propagandized by the ideas of world internationalism and brotherhood - they will not accept this. In them, the thought organ begins in the esophagus and ends in the rectum. Checked.
              2. andrre122
                +4
                10 May 2013 17: 33
                "For twenty years there has been an orgy of smearing the shrines with slops around which the Russian people were (and may be) rallied. It's time to end this."
                Correct words.
                1. +1
                  11 May 2013 13: 18
                  By the way, not 20 years, but much more. In 1956, Khrushchev began to shed mud on Stalin’s IW and tried to put pressure on the military commanders with the aim of joining him.
              3. rolik
                +4
                11 May 2013 02: 06
                Quote: Ardent
                Something I did not hear repentant speeches from their politicians?

                And no one will ever hear them. A nation, if we can call a nation a criminal rabble, which began its historical life with genocide, and which constantly develops within itself contempt and disdain for other nations, cannot itself realize its inferiority and the parasitic nature of its existence. Therefore, they will never repent, but will seek excuses for their actions: Hiroshima (it was necessary to stop the Japanese), Iraq (weapons of mass destruction), Grenada (they simply were bad guys) and so on and on.
            3. S_mirnov
              +24
              10 May 2013 17: 30
              And under Stalin there were criminals and it was by the decision of the COURT. Only then the courts were incorruptible. But which of the parents will tell the grandson that he cut it so that he was jailed? Hence the heaps of "innocent". The percentage of erroneous and deliberately false verdicts also cannot be discounted, but he was sure he was less than now.
              And in some ways the author is wrong. Under Stalin, the people sat LESS than now and much smaller and the crime rate was much lower.
              1. -9
                10 May 2013 19: 12
                Quote: S_mirnov
                And under Stalin, criminals were sitting and it was by the decision of the COURT. Only the courts then were incorruptible

                There were no ships, the NKVD officers decided, in triples. This is a historical fact.
                Quote: S_mirnov
                Only now, who of the parents will tell the grandson that he cut him up so that he was put in prison?

                So you can water everyone with slops, whitewashing the regime, but I rely on a specific example from my family, and I don’t judge you, indiscriminately and without knowing, walking like that, from the shoulder ... to take and insult a person. What do you know about my family, huh?

                Our judges divorced ... and who are the judges?
                1. +3
                  10 May 2013 21: 19
                  we have divorced lawyers ... and who are the lawyers?
                2. +2
                  10 May 2013 21: 44
                  Quote: alex-defensor
                  There were no ships, the NKVD officers decided, in triples. This is a historical fact.

                  Well, in the first place this was not so long, and in the second you can describe the actions of triples?
                3. Atlon
                  +2
                  10 May 2013 22: 02
                  Quote: alex-defensor
                  There were no ships, the NKVD officers decided, in triples. This is a historical fact.

                  A loud statement ... Well, you would at least understand the materiel. THREE WERE INCLUDED:
                  1. head of the regional (regional) department of the NKVD,
                  2. Secretary of the regional party committee
                  3. The prosecutor of the area.
                  In addition, the "troikas" operated in the USSR only ... from 1937 to 1938. This is a HISTORICAL FACT! So talk about illegal repression is at least not true.
                4. +1
                  11 May 2013 13: 21
                  There were courts, and temporarily there were triples. You are like a true liberal, say one thing, forgetting to talk about another. Typical liberal chatter, saying, without proving anything.
            4. +16
              10 May 2013 17: 33
              you would call now in any zone, and the convicts would tell you that they are all innocently convicted and they’re not at all for nothing !!! do not confuse one thing with a tram rail!
              1. -6
                10 May 2013 20: 10
                Quote: Alesha
                you would call now in any zone, and the convicts would tell you that they are all innocently convicted and they’re not at all for nothing !!! do not confuse one thing with a tram rail!


                Do not confuse just the same for you. Already in this matter, I, as a practicing lawyer, know a lot. I will not ask the convict, I will study the materials of his case. My great-grandfather for a long time sought the rehabilitation of his executed brother, he did!
                1. +1
                  11 May 2013 13: 24
                  By the way, noticed if a lawyer. it’s usually not a patriot, but rather a liberal. The most important lawyer Zhirinovsky is worth it. And all sorts of Padva, bulk and so forth
              2. +13
                10 May 2013 21: 25
                here I can authoritatively confirm (I served two terms myself, though a very long time ago) - for all the time I have not met a single person who would say that he is sitting behind a case.
            5. +29
              10 May 2013 18: 05
              Quote: alex-defensor
              During the Stalinist regime, they planted without trial. There were a lot of innocents.

              They planted only in court, in the tribunal, in the court of triples and with the investigation. And your argument is sucked from an anti-Soviet and anti-Stalinist source. So now they are sitting at 140 million people more than under the USSR. repression affected both political opponents and ineffective managers. Chubais would not be given the opportunity to brazenly steal under the guise of project inefficiency. Serdyukov would not be allowed to ruin the army effectively, like Tukhachevsky’s company. Traitors Rezun, Kalugin, foreign agents under Stalin would pinched. So don’t cry for the repressed innocently, as they cried for Solzhenitsyn, who in his poem ruined the Soviet soldiers, calling them rapists, murderers and looters.
              1. DeerIvanovich
                +2
                10 May 2013 20: 36
                maybe three zeros less? laughing
                1. +3
                  10 May 2013 22: 13
                  Quote: DeerIvanovich
                  maybe three zeros less?

                  Yes, with a figure there is some kind of cold. Maybe valokordin means that we are all prisoners in Russia?
                  1. DeerIvanovich
                    +2
                    11 May 2013 11: 44
                    no, he meant that the population of our country is 140 billion, and the Chinese and Indians with their 2 billion before us like before the moon laughing
            6. +9
              10 May 2013 18: 49
              Quote: alex-defensor
              I have a repressed family.

              And nobody was sitting with me.
              It was evident there was nothing.
              1. bezumnyiPIT
                +1
                10 May 2013 20: 31
                My great-grandfather was planted on the other hand, but he told on his collective farm that money can be earned at the railway station, and that they give out food there
              2. +7
                10 May 2013 21: 31
                I didn’t have anyone sitting in the days of Stalin. I already wrote somewhere - all from our village at that time put two (for a fight and theft from a general store), and the village is large.
              3. +2
                11 May 2013 13: 26
                Nobody was sitting at the same time with me. Not a grandfather during the war was captured and after his release he was not imprisoned
            7. +11
              10 May 2013 19: 13
              Our leading designers, such as Korolev, also sat ... Say, they sat at work? Now they are also sitting in the USA, but CRIMINALS AND BY THE RESOLUTION OF THE COURT !!!

              Only criminals convicted by the people's courts sat in the USSR. When Korolev was sitting, he was not yet a leading designer, but if he was? Which of these?
              The law is one for all.
              And about the USA you are mistaken, there only 5% of cases are considered in jury trials, the rest are sentenced by triples (judge, lawyer, prosecutor) by agreement of the parties, no one is interested in the guilt and opinion of the defendant.
              1. -5
                10 May 2013 19: 17
                Quote: Corsair5912
                Only criminals convicted by the people's courts sat in the USSR. When Korolev was sitting, he was not yet a leading designer, but if he was? Which of these?

                You are completely off topic. And therefore write full game.
                1. +8
                  10 May 2013 19: 27
                  That you are not in the subject and are talking nonsense, the law is one for all.
                  Or do you think that Korolev should not have been sitting for embezzlement of budget funds for other purposes?
                  1. -6
                    10 May 2013 19: 37
                    Whose law is it? The law of Kostikov, who denounced the post of head of the research institute and the title of Hero of Soc. Work? After all, Glushko and Korolev were still lucky, the others were shot.

                    Is this "law" for you?
                    1. +9
                      10 May 2013 21: 47
                      Quote: Spade
                      After all, Glushko and Korolev were lucky, the others were shot

                      Do you know what they were sitting for and what was the result of their landing?

                      today that practice wouldn’t hurt, you look at Chubais’s nanotechnology and yielded results sochi would be 10 times cheaper, and even apples could be grown on Mars
                      1. -9
                        10 May 2013 22: 15
                        For what? Below is the indictment. Result? Yes, no. Wasted time.
                        Today, this practice would lead to a collapse altogether — to plant those who really do something just so that a person who throws himself in a warm chair will get it — a lot of overkill.

                        If you do not know, Korolev is the one who launched a person into space
                      2. +5
                        11 May 2013 00: 07
                        Quote: Spade
                        If you do not know, Korolev is the one who launched a person into space

                        do not consider all idiots
                      3. -1
                        11 May 2013 17: 46
                        And it never occurred to anyone that specialists and designers were simply isolated from German intelligence agents ??? And so they were able to surprise the Fritz with new weapons?
                    2. +1
                      11 May 2013 09: 22
                      Quote: Spade
                      The law of Kostikov, who denounced the post of head of the research institute and the title of Hero of Soc. Work?

                      “In the 23 volume of the Great Soviet Encyclopedia (second edition), S. 126 contains an article about Andrei Grigoryevich Kostikov, who received high awards“ for great merit in creating a new type of weapon. ” Since we worked together for a number of years with A. G. Kostikov and we know for certain his role in creating a new type of weapon, we consider it our duty to report this.
                      In the 1937-1938 years, when our Motherland was going through difficult days of mass repressions of Soviet personnel, Kostikov, who worked as an ordinary engineer at the institute, made great efforts to arrest and condemn the main leadership of this institute, including the main author of a new type, as enemies of the people. weapons, a talented scientist-designer, deputy director for science G.E. Langemak. Thus, Kostikov turned out to be the head of the institute and the “author” of this new type of weapon, for which he was immediately generously awarded at the beginning of the war ...
                      Previously repressed employees of the institute are now rehabilitated, some of them, including G.E. Langemak, are posthumous.
                      Please take into account the above when preparing the “Biographical Dictionary of the Figures of Natural Science and Technology” and the next edition of TSB.
                      Corresponding Member of the USSR Academy of Sciences, Hero of Socialist Labor
                      Korolev S.P.
                      Corresponding Member of the USSR Academy of Sciences, Hero of Socialist Labor
                      Glushko V.P. "

                      Now a few dates:
                      1. The repressions against the leading specialists of the RNII were an element of an avalanche-like process that hit the country. Shortly before this, there had been a change in the leadership of the NKVD (Yezhov replaced the executed Yagoda), which increased the atmosphere of fear and suspicion. And, as a result, the performers "competed in overfulfillment" of the planned figures.
                      2. 27 September 1938 g. Held a hearing, at which C.P. The Queen was convicted at 10 years of camps with a loss of rights for 5 years. It should be noted that S.P. The queen was charged during the investigation under Article 58, paragraphs 7 and 11, and in the indictment, paragraphs 8 and 17 of the same article were unexpectedly added to him.
                      3. 13 June 1939 g. Sentence in the case of S.P. The queen was canceled and the case was sent to the NKVD for further investigation. On 28 on May 1940, an additional investigation was completed.
                      A special meeting under the NKVD chaired by L.P. Beria on July 10, 1940 sentenced S.P. Queen for 8 years in forced labor camps. In September 1940, against S.P. Korolyov revised the measure of restraint and determined serving a sentence in a special unit of the NKVD ("sharashka"), where he could work in his specialty.
                    3. +1
                      11 May 2013 13: 45
                      the law is clear to you - the privatization of all the wealth that the Russian people built and the law by which you do not have the right to dig a meter deep, but foreign firms not only dig the 1 meter, but simply dig it, almost everywhere they want and to arbitrarily large depths. And then you have to pay the costs. The law is when kindergartens are given to offices and queues in d / s by 30000 to a millionth city. Very legitimate Serdyukov bleeds the army, everything is so legal ....
                  2. +4
                    10 May 2013 19: 37
                    Quote: Corsair5912
                    ... the law is one for all.
                    Or do you think that Korolev should not have been sitting for embezzlement of budget funds for other purposes?


                    CLOSING INDICTMENT
                    on the trail, case No. 19908
                    charged by the Queen
                    Sergei Pavlovich 58-7; 58-11 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR
                    On June 28 of the 1938 of the NKVD of the USSR for belonging to the Trotskyist, wrecking organization operating in the research institute No. 3 (NKB of the USSR) 21 was arrested and prosecuted by a former engineer of the said institute Korolev Sergey Pavlovich.
                    During the investigation, Korolev pleaded guilty to having been involved in the Trotskyite-wrecking organization in 1935 by the former technical director of the research institute No. 3 Langemak (convicted) of 22.
                    In the course of the investigation in the Langemak case, he was not specifically questioned about the Queen and about the latter’s participation in the anti-Soviet organization showed that he knew about it from the words of Kleimenov, the former director of the Research Institute-3 (convicted) (ld.41).
                    On the instructions of the anti-Soviet organization, Korolev carried out wrecking work to disrupt the development and commissioning of new types of weapons by the Red Army (ln 21-35, 53-55; 66-67, 238-239).
                    By the decision of the Military College of the Supreme Court of the USSR of 27 on September 1938, Korolev was sentenced to 10 years of imprisonment.
                    13 On June 1939, the Plenum of the Supreme Court of the USSR overturned the verdict of the Military College of the Supreme Court of the USSR, and the investigation case for Korolev was transferred to a new investigation (see separate folder of the trial) .283
                  3. +4
                    10 May 2013 19: 38
                    During the re-investigation, Korolev showed that the testimony given to them during the investigation in 1938 was untrue and false (ld 153-156).
                    However, Korolev is exposed in the case materials of the investigation and documentary evidence that:
                    In 1936, he led the development of a powder winged torpedo; knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo — devices with photocells — for controlling a torpedo and aiming it at a target cannot be manufactured by the central laboratory of the 23 wire communication, Korolev worked hard to develop the missile part of this torpedo in 2 versions in order to load the institute with unnecessary work .
                    As a result of this test, the four torpedoes built by the Royal showed their complete unsuitability, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 000 rubles and delayed the development of other, more relevant topics (ld 250-251).
                    In 1937, during the development of the side compartment of the torpedo (winged), he made a wrecking calculation, as a result of which the research work on the creation of the torpedo was disrupted (ld 23-24, 256).
                    Artificially delayed the production and testing of defense facilities (object 212) (ld 21, 54, 255).
                    On the basis of the above
                    accused
                    Korolev Sergey Pavlovich, 1906 year of birth, harvest. mountains Zhytomyr, Russian, city of the USSR, non-partisan, prior to arrest - engineer NII-3 NKB USSR,
                    in that:
                    from 1935 of the year he was a member of the Trotskyist wrecker organization, on the instructions of which he conducted criminal work at the NII-3 to disrupt the development and commissioning of new types of weapons, i.e. in crimes of Article.Article. 58-7, 58-11 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR.
                    He pleaded guilty, but subsequently refused his testimony.
                    It is exposed by testimonies: Kleimenov, Langemak, Glushko; witness statements; Smirnov, Rokhmachev, Kosyatov, Shitov, Efremov, Bukin, Dushkin and acts of expert commissions.
                    The case on charges of Korolyov should be forwarded to the Prosecutor's Office of the USSR for jurisdiction.
                    The indictment was drawn up on 28 on May 1940 in Moscow.
                    Investigator of the investigation department of the State Political Administration of the NKVD of the USSR ml. State Security Lieutenant Ryabov.
                    Pom. beg. Sequentially, the State Institution of the NKVD of the USSR State Security Lieutenant Libenson.

                    "I agree". Beginning Investigations of the Main Directorate of the NKVD of the USSR, Major of State Security Wlodzimirsky.
                    "I approve". Deputy early of the main economic department of the NKVD of the USSR, Major of State Security Nasedkin.
                    26 May 1940 g

                    And you think that everything is fine here?
                    1. +7
                      10 May 2013 21: 42
                      And what is not normal here? Korolev was tried for misuse of budget funds, he pleaded guilty, in addition, there are testimonies from competent experts:
                      In 1936, he led the development of a powder winged torpedo; knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo — devices with photocells — for controlling a torpedo and aiming it at a target cannot be manufactured by the central laboratory of the 23 wire communication, Korolev worked hard to develop the missile part of this torpedo in 2 versions in order to load the institute with unnecessary work .
                      As a result of this test, four torpedoes built by the Royal showed their complete unsuitability, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 rubles and delayed the development of other, more relevant topics (ld 000-250)

                      If at my work I start developing projects that have no prospects for implementation and spend the money, the smallest companies will immediately fire me, or they will even recover the wasted money through the court and can easily put me in prison.
                      1. -4
                        10 May 2013 22: 25
                        The Germans created an analogue of what Korolyov worked on in 1944. Thanks to the valiant authorities for not allowing cruise missiles to appear in the USSR before the war
                      2. +2
                        11 May 2013 16: 51
                        MLRS or "Katyusha" guards mortar are also powder rockets, they were successfully used by Soviet aviation. The Germans did not have anything of the kind, and their gunpowder cruise missiles were 100 times more expensive than the Soviet wingless ones, had a very low percentage of hits, because of those same control devices with photocells and did not have a significant effect on the results of hostilities.
                      3. -1
                        11 May 2013 18: 20
                        And the creator of these "powder rockets, which were successfully used by aviation" since Khalkhin-Gol, Langemak, was shot after the investigation in this case. Are you aware of this?

                        Due to Korolev’s conviction, they stopped working on cruise missiles, which they could have completed in five years. They stopped work on a jet plane, which could have appeared earlier than the Germans; by the time of the arrest, they were completing the construction of a prototype.

                        That's it.

                        Quote: Corsair5912
                        The Germans didn’t have anything like that,

                        Y-yes ... They would have written better "I don't know about anything like that among the Germans." Would read something, learn the materiel ...
                      4. 3 inches.
                        0
                        13 May 2013 20: 10
                        nonsense. Someone forgets that the Germans were a colossal scientific and production abyss between us. German laboratories and institutes exceeded us completely. It was simply because they existed much longer than ours. At that time, the German research base was the best in the world. Ours KB and NII counted a maximum of 15-20 years of its existence. And then the KGB security officers ...
                      5. -1
                        10 May 2013 22: 38
                        Quote: Corsair5912
                        If at my work I start developing projects that have no prospects for implementation


                        On 217 missiles, stabilization and control in flight, as well as actuation of fuses, were to be carried out by telemechanical devices when flying missiles in a light beam from a searchlight illuminating the target. All rockets were launched without explosives. The highest lift height reached by the rocket was 1000 m at a range of 2500-3000 m. It should be noted that stable flight in the launch plane was achieved only in a few individual cases at a path length of no more than 1000 m and up to a height of 400-500 m. Further, with increasing flight speed and the angle of elevation, the autopilots did not hold the rocket, and it began to “loop”, make steep turns with a climb, and finally turned into a drop. Firing accuracy tests failed. The missile part at that time worked satisfactorily, the questions were mainly about the control system

                        That is, Korolev brought the "missile" part of the CD. And he did it not as on his own initiative. For me, the whole "fault" is that the customer and curator of these projects was Tukhachevsky
                2. +3
                  10 May 2013 22: 15
                  Quote: Spade
                  You are completely off topic. And therefore write full game.

                  Those who planted were in the subject, so there was no need to justify the criminals.
                  1. 0
                    10 May 2013 22: 32
                    But what about. A state security lieutenant with three classes of education was much more rocket-savvy than any Korolev there.
                    1. -1
                      11 May 2013 16: 59
                      State security officers had at least 7 classes and plus a special school for police and state security officers, which was at the level of higher education.
                      To understand complex scientific problems, the Soviet special services and the police turned to highly qualified experts. The state security lieutenant did not need to know dozens of sciences and conduct expert examinations himself.
                      1. -1
                        11 May 2013 18: 22
                        Children with seven grades of education chose the one who wrote the denunciation, Kostikov, as a "highly qualified expert".
                      2. -1
                        11 May 2013 18: 46
                        Who cares who wrote the denunciation? This has absolutely no effect on sentencing. And the experts are appointed by the court.
                        By the way, all the NKVD officers who were involved in this case were convicted, executed or received long sentences.
                  2. +1
                    10 May 2013 23: 19
                    Quote: Setrac
                    Those who planted were in the subject, so there was no need to justify the criminals.

                    The fact of squandering money could be proven without taking out the Queen's jaw ...
                    1. 0
                      11 May 2013 17: 02
                      And why did you decide that the NKVD officers removed the jaw to Korolev?
                      He himself never said that.
                3. -1
                  11 May 2013 13: 28
                  But he was definitely not the lead designer
            8. +14
              10 May 2013 19: 57
              And even now there are many unjustly convicted prisoners in prison. The question is that the "bloody Stalinist regime" defended the independence of our country and built a great power. And under today's "rulers" we will soon not only be on our knees, but we will stand up with all the ensuing consequences.
            9. fokino1980
              -8
              10 May 2013 20: 15
              Are you sure about this ??? wink
            10. bezumnyiPIT
              +3
              10 May 2013 20: 24
              Your family was personally judged by Stalin, And the NKVDeshnik, who sent you to the camp in vain, Aga-aga
            11. +9
              10 May 2013 20: 30
              Quote: alex-defensor
              Now they are also sitting in the USA, but CRIMINALS AND BY THE RESOLUTION OF THE COURT !!!

              Amerovsky court is the fairest court in the world lol Do not be ridiculous, respectable. Judging by the decisions made against the murderers of Russian adopted children, these courts are so "fair". If they were American children, then the sentences were much harsher. Double standards in ai rule in all instances negative
              1. +1
                11 May 2013 13: 32
                The court is very righteous with them, but Bout’s landing says a lot
            12. mbr0969
              +3
              10 May 2013 20: 59
              They didn’t lie in the USSR without trial or investigation; you mixed up with Guantanomo. And the special triples were so under Stolypin.
            13. +3
              10 May 2013 21: 37
              Quote: alex-defensor
              During the Stalinist regime, they planted without trial. There were a lot of innocents.

              where you read this nonsense?
              no matter what kind of investigation was conducted, and what about the completely innocent, unfortunately, we will never know when
            14. +7
              10 May 2013 23: 15
              Quote: alex-defensor
              During the Stalinist regime, they planted without trial. There were a lot of innocents. I have a repressed family. A patriot is one who loves his homeland, what does Stalin have to do with it?

              I will answer the question with a question, and where does Stalin? Mass repressions were organized by the regional elite in the field, in response to an attempt by I.V. Stalin's democratic reforms, which included the equalization of all classes of rights, alternative elections to Soviet authorities, etc. The so-called old guard, consisting mainly of not-too-educated participants in the civil war, trying to protect their privileges and rights to power structures, realizing that they would not go through alternative democratic elections, announced the intensification of the class struggle and began mass repressions .. .
              In the end, Stalin managed to remove the old Bolsheviks from power, and in 1939 the repression almost stopped.
              Do not repeat liberal cliches, archives are declassified, analyze the facts and draw conclusions.
              1. +3
                11 May 2013 13: 42
                I give an example: the actions of Goloshchekin in Kazakhstan, which organized the genocide of the local population (and not only Kazakhs). Mr. Oz finished. Peredrast and a sadist. Personally shot the Tsar’s family.
                In 1939 he was shot. When Beria.
            15. alexandr00070
              +5
              10 May 2013 23: 20
              Quote: alex-defensor
              During the Stalinist regime, they planted without trial. There were a lot of innocents. I have a repressed family.

              You poorly know the essence of the matter, all the saddles are decided by a court, another question is how the decision was made and whether Stalin himself was to blame for the many landings. Stalin decided to plant your relatives, or there were some other people (neighbors) who were crouching in their apartment, the workplace of your relatives. Or for whom it was just a toad that worked. Or the whole thing is in the surname (if the surname is used in NIKE, then it was difficult to avoid repressions with the surname DEFENSE)
            16. +2
              11 May 2013 02: 03
              In your opinion, it turns out that now only criminals are sitting, and at that time they were sitting, exclusively, innocent. You either do not know anything, or you are lying. And the trial was .and the investigation was also. And there were killers, thieves, robbers, crooks, embezzlers, bribe takers, the whole spectrum of the criminal world existed. And how then does it turn out that then and now about the same number of people are sitting? AND? And my family is NOT repressed !!!! And all my family members are NOT repressed !! And the near and dear ones were not repressed either !!!!!! And to listen to you, the repressed ones are everywhere.
            17. +2
              11 May 2013 02: 25
              A repressed for what? For desertion, forgery of food cards, or for helping the Germans rob and kill Soviet people?
              Specify specifically. We will sympathize with you.
            18. +4
              11 May 2013 05: 54
              Long live the most humane court in the world, condemned Buta and Yaroshenko.
            19. 0
              11 May 2013 06: 06
              But what did you plant them, you know? And if you did not plant do not talk about what you do not know.
            20. +3
              11 May 2013 07: 50
              Of course, criminals, for example, in Guantanamo, and no one mocks them, because America was a virtuous model
            21. Lukich
              0
              11 May 2013 08: 53
              ... in GUANTANAMO ...
            22. 0
              11 May 2013 11: 30
              Guantanamo to help you.
            23. +2
              11 May 2013 13: 09
              You will understand the reasons for the repressions against your relatives, study the case (case) and find in this case a denunciation written by your own relatives or acquaintances of your relatives.
              And the main motivation of denunciations is envy.
              And no need to shake the air. This is not a party meeting.
            24. Van
              +1
              11 May 2013 13: 37
              Quote: alex-defensor
              Now they are also sitting in the USA, but CRIMINALS AND BY THE RESOLUTION OF THE COURT !!!

              belay laughing wassat
            25. 0
              13 May 2013 11: 56
              Quote: alex-defensor
              Now they are also sitting in the USA, but CRIMINALS AND BY THE RESOLUTION OF THE COURT !!!

              In those years, the same was imprisoned "criminals" and the same "by the decision of the court", only the articles were "to match the era", and the courts ...
              I'm not making excuses for those judges and prosecutors, but that's just not worth it blah-blah-blah about the LAW (and even in the States) now and about the barbaric lawlessness in the Union then. Unfortunately, everything was according to the law, only the laws were cannibalistic (just like now: whatever the law, it is a mockery of reason. Well, clean "notes from the mad house")
            26. Tatar
              0
              14 May 2013 13: 54
              Now there are those who stole a kilo of potatoes to feed their sick son, and those who stole millions, quietly quietly drink Machito, surrounded by heifers and ride in limousines.
          2. +7
            10 May 2013 19: 26
            Quote: andrre122
            Keep

            In addition, I was skeptical that on commercials, veterans saluted the fallen American-style to an empty head.
          3. Bashkaus
            +18
            10 May 2013 19: 51
            I support the author of the article. My great-grandfather was also repressed and shot at 37, my great-grandmother served 10 years in the camps as the wife of an enemy of the people.
            BUT TO THE LIGHT HOLIDAY OF THE VICTORY DAY THIS DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING!
            And to all the nits who are once again trying by hook or by crook to denigrate a Russian soldier, I do not threaten, but I say BAD FINISH!
          4. -4
            11 May 2013 01: 35
            Quote: andrre122
            Keep


            What do you support?

            This is a libel; the author is ready for any villainy to blacken the day. They must be kept in the muzzle.
          5. +1
            12 May 2013 05: 27
            This television has long been a disgrace to Russia, showing on the central channels - "Dom-2" and "Comedy Club" - vulgar, disgusting and filthy !!!
        2. +10
          10 May 2013 17: 20
          I completely agree, argue on the sidelines, but you need to give a picture without any shadows and shades.
        3. -8
          10 May 2013 18: 02
          Yes, I have nothing more to do, how to argue? every day similar topics will appear on the site and you will gnaw at each other. every day the same thing. these words have been said for many years, but you just woke up. And you never listened to the text, patriots. ..
          it’s not about my attitude to Stalin. I don’t know what you saw there, shadows or something else, but in fact you didn’t answer me. The author was driven away. There is no mention in the text that each soldier had a close illegally planted. If you don’t agree that there have been cases when people were sitting innocently, then prove it here.
        4. +4
          10 May 2013 18: 36
          Quote: Ardent
          Broadcasting to the WORLD, it is necessary as if you are breathing on a candle.

          This is 100% true!
        5. mbr0969
          +7
          10 May 2013 20: 56
          If you were born and watched only the libel-battles film "SHTRAFBAT" about penal battalions, then I sympathize with you at all about the penal battalions (only demoted officers served in them, and there were no recidivists or political ones in them at all, all the more there were no detachments shooting penalties at advanced) don't know - alas
        6. +1
          10 May 2013 21: 23
          support
        7. 0
          10 May 2013 23: 19
          BUT SAY. BE KIND. AT WHAT LEVEL IS APPROVED TEXT FOR ANNOUNCER? LOGIC. IF NOT GERMAN END LAGI. IF NOT "STALINKI" VICTORY WOULD NOT BE? WHO KNOWS WHO IS COMMANDING THE DH? IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE A CONCLUSION?
      2. -19
        10 May 2013 15: 57
        You stood to death near Moscow and Stalingrad, drove bread to the besieged Leningrad, burned in a tank near Prokhorovka. By dying, you saved millions of lives. You lost your relatives and friends in the Stalinist camps

        There is nothing offensive in these words, on the contrary, it only magnifies the feat of the Soviet people. Recall and commemorate the unjustly ruined in the camps before the war. Let us recall the survivors, but not embittered, of the same Rokossovsky, for example, whose contribution to the victory was at least no less than Zhukov. Hundreds of thousands of innocently ruined and posthumously rehabilitated - proven fact. Let’s not forget about those sacrifices so that another Asian would not once again put hundreds of thousands of Russians in the name of a great idea, because we are the main wealth, value and meaning of the existence of this country.
        1. Mikado
          +41
          10 May 2013 16: 02
          I completely agree with you, only in this case, so as not to forget ALL the victims and everything was fair, these words should be continued
          "You stood to death near Moscow and Stalingrad, carried bread to besieged Leningrad, burned in a tank near Prokhorovka. By dying you saved millions of lives. You who lost loved ones in Stalin's camps. at home, because the heating was turned off, I saw how a gang of traitors and thieves settled in our ancient Kremlin ... "
          1. +1
            10 May 2013 16: 07
            This is one of the troubles pursuing Russia - our power-hungry people of all time are beyond jurisdiction.
            1. SASCHAmIXEEW
              +33
              10 May 2013 16: 47
              Khrushch defamed Stalin in order to whitewash himself, and in general there were only a few guilty ones without guilt !!! And about the millions who were shot, it's absurd at all! The archives need to be raised and studied! ! But it turned out that "our" liberal perestroika
              you blinded a fake and issued for the truth, su ... and ....
              1. +6
                10 May 2013 19: 42
                Quote: SASCHAmIXEEW
                Khrushch stunned Stalin to whitewash himself

                It's simple, with this Khrushchev avenged Stalin for his son, begged him on his knees! despite the fact that Stalin refused to change Field Marshal Pauls for his son, who was then in German captivity. “I don’t change soldiers for generals,” he (Stalin) said.
                1. alexandr00070
                  +1
                  11 May 2013 01: 48
                  Quote: kvirit
                  It's simple, with this Khrushchev avenged Stalin for his son, begged him on his knees! despite the fact that Stalin refused to change Field Marshal Pauls for his son, who was then in German captivity. “I don’t change soldiers for generals,” he (Stalin) said.

                  It was he who did not exchange his son and the phrase to his son, and Khrushchev avenged his eldest son, the pilot, shot down by the Germans and agreed to work for them, so Stalin ordered, and the son of Khrushchev was captured from the Germans by partisans and executed
              2. bezumnyiPIT
                +9
                10 May 2013 20: 37
                Khrushch is still when Nikita was the first secretary of the Moscow City Party, then zealously filed execution lists of unreliable, sometimes up to 10 thousand people (former kulaks, bandits, officers, speculators, clergy, etc., etc., who had served their sentence or not), Stalin crossed out half ... and on one of the documents he wrote "calm down!" in my opinion Khrushchev was a brave, active, cunning but still limited person .. stupid.
            2. +21
              10 May 2013 17: 22
              Quote: zart_arn
              This is one of the troubles pursuing Russia - our power-hungry people of all time are beyond jurisdiction.

              You are mistaken!
              The first decree of Khrushchev, after coming to power, on the non-jurisdiction of senior officials.
              Under Stalin, everyone and everyone who deserved to be judged was sitting, regardless of nationality (Art. 282) and other merits.

              Regarding television, it has already been written more than once - it does not belong to the state, and the enemies as they can - and they will spare. (who do not know: http://klin.hutt.ru/viewtopic.php?id=113 )
              1. YuDDP
                +2
                10 May 2013 19: 25
                Quote: Boris55
                Regarding television, it has already been written more than once - it does not belong to the state, and the enemies as they can - and they will spare.

                Yes, they say (Forbes says) that Russian TV does not belong to the state, but belongs to Yuri Kovalchuk, Putin's neighbor in the Ozero dacha cooperative.
              2. +5
                10 May 2013 20: 01
                Quote: Boris55

                The first decree of Khrushchev, after coming to power, on the non-jurisdiction of senior officials.
                Under Stalin, everyone and everyone who deserved to be judged was sitting, regardless of nationality (Art. 282) and other merits.

                And the first decree of Putin "on the non-jurisdiction of Yeltsin" and granting him with all the numerous family of eternal material benefits
                1. +3
                  10 May 2013 20: 47
                  Quote: Polar
                  And the first decree of Putin "on the non-jurisdiction of Yeltsin" and granting him with all the numerous family of eternal material benefits


                  This was one of the conditions for a peaceful transfer of power.
                  Or do you really believe that EBN abdicated?
            3. +2
              11 May 2013 17: 25
              Not all times, but only from Khrushchev times, members of the Central Committee of the CPSU became inaccessible to the KGB and the prosecutor's office. Khrushchev forbade to conduct investigative actions in relation to them, bring charges, detain them for testimony, etc. Only then did they become a caste not obeying Soviet laws, and their relatives too. The son of the secretary of the regional committee could rape and kill the child, and they could not do anything for it.
          2. Merchant
            -10
            10 May 2013 16: 17
            But what Mikado do you have for nothing that you and specifically RUSSIA, Vladimir Putin did a bad thing !!! Or are you like the 5th kalon no no yes and want to peck at the tune of Western intelligence services !!!
            1. Merchant
              -12
              10 May 2013 16: 31
              THAT YOU ALL FIND OUT THE BAD EVEN ON SUCH GREAT HOLIDAYS !!!
              WHAT YOU DO NOT ALL LIKE !!!
              WHAT YOU ARE ALL DISSATISFIED !!!
              AND SO ALREADY TODAY THE PRESIDENT CAN HELP TO LIFT RUSSIA FROM KNEES !!!
              SO LET'S DO NOT INTERVENE IT, HELP !!!
              And THAT THE KNIFE FROM BACK OF EVERYONE CAN PLANT!
              HERE WITHDRAW GDP FROM YOURSELF AND 37 START YOU !!!
              1. Merchant
                -5
                10 May 2013 16: 42
                WELL THAT THE FREAKERS OF THE WESTERNS AND THEIR AGENTS BEGIN TO MINUS!
                THERE IS NOTHING IN RUSSIA, Loyal citizens and their majority, RUSSIA IS UNBEATABLE !!!
                1. andrre122
                  -28
                  10 May 2013 16: 53
                  The great Pu. Hurray, comrades.
                  1. Merchant
                    0
                    10 May 2013 16: 57
                    THIS IS ONLY WITHOUT SARCASM !!!
                2. +20
                  10 May 2013 17: 13
                  I do not want to dirty my hands, minus you. But answer - how do you specifically help your beloved Putin? From your statements you only put sticks in wheels. We like everything, and we are happy with everything. They are especially pleased with Putin’s attitude to Serdyukov, Chubais, Khristenko, Manturov, Golikova, Skrynnik and many other destroyers of Russia. But the attitude to the memory of the Heroes of the war is unambiguous, and it cannot be revised. Although there are still many renegades trying to do this.

                  LET IT REMEMBER EVERYTHING SCAR: General photo of the Soviet delegation during the signing of the Act of unconditional surrender of all the armed forces of Germany. In the center is Marshal Zhukov. May 8, 1945
                  1. alexandr00070
                    +3
                    11 May 2013 01: 54
                    Quote: AleksUkr
                    From your statements you only put sticks in wheels. We like everything, and we are happy with everything. Particularly pleased with Putin’s attitude to Serdyukov, Chubais, Khristenko, Manturov, Golikova, Skrynnik and many other destroyers of Russia

                    There is a logical chain of the Merchant - a Jewish merchant, and, accordingly, a "friend" to Serdyukov, Chubais, Khristenko, Manturov, Golikova, Skrynnik and many other destroyers of Russia
                  2. +1
                    11 May 2013 19: 04
                    Quote: Merchant
                    WELL THAT THE FREAKERS OF THE WESTERNS AND THEIR AGENTS BEGIN TO MINUS!

                    Quote: AleksUkr
                    I do not want to dirty my hands, minus you.

                    The merchant, as he is used to moonlighting as a troll on an e-mail, echo, rain, is trying here, being sent by the leadership)).
                    The goal is to chat the resource, make it inoperative. For the last days of such - fifty appeared)).
                3. Gemar
                  +19
                  10 May 2013 17: 51
                  Quote: Merchant
                  WELL THAT THE FREAKERS OF THE WESTERNS AND THEIR AGENTS BEGIN TO MINUS!

                  Look how smart you are. He doesn't like the cons. Deserved, then, if they put in such an amount. People who did not agree to praise the "great" president were immediately included in the "Westerners" and liberasts ?! negative Well, judge for yourself, let’s not judge!
                  Quote: Merchant
                  IN RUSSIA, THERE ARE FAITHFUL CITIZENS IN RUSSIA

                  Match the word "TRUE" with some noun. To whom are they faithful? The one who in every possible way resists the demands of the people to plant "Red" and "Tuburetkin"? Anyone who does not want to help the Russians return to their homeland, but brings in hundreds of thousands of Central Asian citizens, granting them Russian citizenship?
                  I am loyal to the Far East. And, despite the fact that people are fleeing from here en masse, to the delight of the Chinese, I am going to stay to live here. I have three children, I will give them a good education. I will teach them how to hunt, love their Motherland (not the president), honor the memory of our soldiers, admire the achievements of our scientists. I will teach them not to be afraid of newcomers, not to cringe in front of foreigners ... and to respond competently to such "patriots" as you.
                  Quote: Merchant
                  HERE WITHDRAW GDP FROM YOURSELF AND 37 START YOU !!!

                  You, in turn, advice - disable Caps Lock. In capital letters, those who have a small organ are usually screaming ... the brain laughing
                4. bezumnyiPIT
                  +2
                  10 May 2013 20: 39
                  I am faithful to my homeland-Russia, and I did not swear to Putin
                  1. +4
                    10 May 2013 22: 22
                    Quote: bezumnyiPIT
                    I am faithful to my homeland-Russia, and I did not swear to Putin

                    This is just a pun. If you are liable for military service, then Putin is your commander until the term of his presidency ends.
              2. Genady1976
                +10
                10 May 2013 16: 43
                but I have nothing to fear let embezzlers fear 37g.
                1. Merchant
                  +11
                  10 May 2013 16: 56
                  WE WILL GET ANYTHING AND TO THE OTHER TREASURES!
                  TO ALL THOSE WHO HUMILIATES AND INSIGNES RUSSIA !!!
                  A SIMPLE PERSON LOVING HOMELAND AND A BELIEVE IN GREATNESS OF RUSSIA IS NOTHING TO BE AFRAID !!!
                  GLORY TO RUSSIA!!!
                2. +6
                  10 May 2013 21: 04
                  So far, the KAZNOKRADY will hardly be afraid. Putin said that now is not 37 years old. Yves 60s and 70s "for the plundering of State property on an especially large scale - confiscation of property and execution."
                  Well, maybe not 37, not 60th, not 70th, maybe not SHOOTED, but CONFISCATION of property and years, at least 10 years in prison, in felling! And with such "liberal" approaches to embezzlers, as now, there will be no order in the country, so the whole country will be allowed "around the world". Serdyukov was "misled", the chybasik simply "INEFFECTIVELY invested" more than 2,5 billion rubles. And I think I just very "EFFECTIVELY" put "under myself". A thief sits on a thief and ...
              3. andrre122
                +9
                10 May 2013 16: 51
                "LIFTING RUSSIA OFF KNEES"
                By signing anti-people’s laws. Quietly, quietly, under the guise of a holiday. Despite protests and appeals.
                He doesn’t raise anything. He has a task to survive. Here he is spinning. He flirts with the people when the liberal liberal sidekick is pressed. Then he hugs them back when he lets him go. That's the whole strategy.
                1. Merchant
                  -15
                  10 May 2013 17: 01
                  I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THIS WHO SUCH A KNOWLEDGE SEEKED !!
                  DO YOU KNOW THE PRESIDENT'S POLITICAL TECHNOLOGY AND STRATEGY!
                  BETTER SILENCE M ...... C
                  1. andrre122
                    +6
                    10 May 2013 17: 24
                    I don’t know. I say how I see the situation and judge by business.
                    "BETTER WOULD BE SILENT"
                    Better not tell me.
              4. SASCHAmIXEEW
                +9
                10 May 2013 16: 51
                And at 37m Stalin removed the remnants of the railway Zionists from the cracks ...
                1. andrre122
                  +7
                  10 May 2013 17: 07
                  Not really. He tried to move the party nomenclature, and she responded with repression.
              5. TUMAN
                +14
                10 May 2013 17: 53
                Quote: Merchant
                THAT YOU ALL FIND OUT THE BAD EVEN ON SUCH GREAT HOLIDAYS !!!

                Nobody is looking! It's just a shame for the State! How long can you send our past away ?! Here in Ukraine it is not possible to turn on the TV, it immediately makes you sick, they show the "white tiger", then the convicts who won the war, and in all these films the commanders are idiots, the soldiers are fools, the Chekists are bloodsuckers. Not a single film was shown good, everyone!
              6. 0
                11 May 2013 13: 49
                The correct postulate, I fully support!
          3. Genady1976
            +1
            10 May 2013 16: 22
            For 20 years, they say this in a moment of silence
            1. andrre122
              +1
              10 May 2013 16: 54
              Personally, I first heard this moment.
              1. Genady1976
                0
                10 May 2013 17: 59
                2009 is the same
                1. Genady1976
                  +1
                  10 May 2013 18: 17
                  here 2001 04:45
                2. alexandr00070
                  +2
                  11 May 2013 01: 59
                  Quote: Genady1976
                  2009 is the same

                  really 3,15 minutes the same phrase, go nuts
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. +3
                10 May 2013 18: 08
                because you never listened
          4. +7
            10 May 2013 17: 35
            Does anyone have statistics on the dead (deceased) veterans of the Great War in the damned 90 years? Share, then everything will be garlic. You are 10+.
          5. +5
            10 May 2013 18: 42
            Dear Mikado, I completely agree with you and fully support !!! Especially about the Kremlin ...
          6. +11
            10 May 2013 18: 55
            "You, having lived up to the times of Yeltsin and Putin, froze to death to the floor of your own house, because the heating was turned off, you saw how a gang of traitors and thieves settled in our ancient Kremlin ..."
            -------------------------------------------
            Good words Mikado!
            It is necessary to rewrite and hang on the forums so that the Kremlin collaborators who diligently pervert our Great History do not doubt what the people think of them
        2. andrre122
          +35
          10 May 2013 16: 25
          And why not the Khrushchevsky or Blackberry camps? The party nomenclature has blood-soaked hands and they were the initiators and active participants in the terror of 37-38 years.
          Because Stalin fought against this Trotskyite nits. But they have regretted so far up in Russia. The purpose of these creatures is to sacrifice Russia for world capital. And it is thanks to Stalin that we can celebrate May 9 and talk here.
          The meaning of this abomination is to oppose Stalin to the people. The people won the war in defiance of the commander in chief. For a normal person, this is nonsense.
          The task is to carry out de-Stalinization and desovetization. In the West they have already compiled a penitential list of what the Russians should repent of.
          The result will be the vocation of the USSR by the same aggressor as Germany. A review of the results of the Second World War. And there, Nuremberg 2 is just around the corner. Preparation for the hill is already underway.
          And do not stop there. The blackening of the entire history of Russia and de-Russification will follow. Our liberoid western servants are already slowly singing about it.
          And you continue to be held captive by liberoid delirium.
          1. jjj
            +13
            10 May 2013 18: 26
            Yes, when at the beginning of the war, Comrade Stalin created the GKO - the body standing above the organs of Soviet power and the party, it became clear that it was precisely such a governance structure that allowed for large-scale reorganizations and really effective management of a huge state in wartime. The facsimile of the signature of Joseph Vissarionovich was among the GKO members. On his behalf, they made decisions in the subordinate sectors of the economy and defense.
            And that's what is remarkable. After the war, Comrade Stalin proposed to reduce the role of the party in governing the country, and to create something GKO only for peacetime conditions. But fellow party members did not even bring up this proposal of the "tyrant Stalin" for discussion. And instead, another "tightening of the nuts" began. By the way, Victory Day was not celebrated as a holiday then. And the awards of the front-line soldiers lay on tables, boxes, chests of drawers. It was considered not very decent to wear them. In society, not the most optimistic moods dominated in relation to the front-line soldiers. The authorities did not stand on ceremony either. Perhaps only Simonov and Tvardovsky worked for the prestige of the defenders with their creativity. In the sixties, there was a turning point - the massive appearance of "lieutenant prose". And ten years later they remembered about Stalin.
            I think that today's official attitude to the role of Comrade Stalin - ostentatious. For a number of reasons, the authorities have to adhere to liberal rhetoric. But in television programs, paper media, Stalin’s films are shown more or less adequately. Thus, the people retain their good name and set the stage for official recognition in the future. He will be our national hero.
            1. +4
              10 May 2013 19: 04
              Quote: jjj
              He will be our national hero.

              Not "will be", but HE is and will remain so forever in the memory of the people.
        3. stranik72
          +9
          10 May 2013 16: 46
          zart_arn
          "Let's not forget about those sacrifices so that another Asian will not once again put hundreds of thousands of Russians in the name of a great idea, because we are the main wealth, value and meaning of existence of this country. "
          I wonder who you think is the previous Asian. As far as I remember and know the story, Asians in Russia did not carry out great ideas. If you consider Stalin to be an Asian, then I am sad for my country in which the slumber does not hesitate to show his denseness.
          1. bezumnyiPIT
            +1
            10 May 2013 20: 42
            Asian can not be a Russian?
        4. S_mirnov
          +8
          10 May 2013 17: 36
          “Hundreds of thousands of innocently ruined and posthumously rehabilitated is a proven fact.” - Proved by whom? Solzhenitsen and Novodvorskaya? Stop talking about the camps! For example, prisoners of war were allowed through the camps, because Europe was all lousy and with gonorrhea. While they were kept in quarantine, traitors were caught. It is only in the memoirs of all the shell-shocked terminators taken prisoner, but in fact the fates are different and some were worthy of punishment.
        5. -2
          10 May 2013 17: 41
          Quote: zart_arn
          You stood to death near Moscow and Stalingrad, drove bread to the besieged Leningrad, burned in a tank near Prokhorovka. By dying, you saved millions of lives. You lost your relatives and friends in the Stalinist camps


          That's how it coincided, ah. My great-uncle (lieutenant general) was shot in 37, his wife, a housewife, was shot. When they were taken away, it was winter, a crater arrived at night, the windows and doors of their house were boarded up, 4 children, in which they slept, were thrown out into the street, if they had not been picked up by the neighbors, then by morning they would have froze to death. However, my great-grandfather (the brother of the victim) was in charge of one of the caravans on the "road of life" along which provisions were delivered to besieged Leningrad. My grandmother's brother, when he came from the front, was sent to a camp, where he died of pneumonia. That's it, that's it! It was a terrible time, it was a terrible regime, there were many scoundrels exposed by the authorities.
          1. -2
            10 May 2013 18: 04
            Just now I specified with my mother, she knows better. They didn’t shoot his wife, but put him where she died.
          2. +10
            10 May 2013 18: 51
            Quote: alex-defensor
            there were many scoundrels exposed by authority.

            Quote: alex-defensor
            there were many scoundrels exposed by authority.

            There are a lot of them now, much more than there was, so they are trying to spoil honest people of that time.
          3. stranik72
            +4
            10 May 2013 19: 50
            alex-defensor
            I do not believe about children, tell horror stories on another resource. There was a law on the children of those arrested, and even on the street at night, in winter, there were few suicides in the NKVD. So hang noodles. And about the lieutenant general, there are lists of rattle and convicts in such a level, and there is the whole story. Look, you might be surprised.
          4. Net
            Net
            +7
            10 May 2013 20: 08
            Well, you think yourself logically, what was the point of Stalin personally to arrange such crimes? Well, what? If many then returned back! And what about Stalin? You better among the neighbors would look who denounced such scribbling at people.
        6. diesel
          +11
          10 May 2013 18: 41
          Khrushchev rehabilitated him, who demanded that he increase his orders for repression, and the same lack of education as him, who were unable to organize and understand anything in politics and the national economy. They decided to blame Stalin for their desire to curry favor. It was they who ignored the backlogs and rates laid down under Stalin, 16-19% of GDP growth. Everyone nervously smokes on the sidelines.
        7. +2
          10 May 2013 19: 26
          Rokkossovsky above Zhukov. But I recommend recalling the Lokot Republic. And then remember not legal repressions. Too many were legal and not repressed. Unfortunately. Otherwise, there would be less loss.
        8. +5
          10 May 2013 19: 31
          Buchenwald and Dachau were freed by the Americans, it turns out that their relatives were also in the "Stalinist camps." When did they get in there?
        9. dmb
          +6
          10 May 2013 21: 09
          I think that the minuses to you and your like-minded person have been instructed for good reason. The article does not speak about whether there were repressions or not. To deny that they were, and that as a result of them, a considerable number of innocent people suffered, as well as their harm to the country and the people, can only be finished ... However, the vileness said on TV, which appeared after the "triumph of democracy" to give an objective assessment of the events of that time. It is spoken at the suggestion of the current leaders and their lackeys like Svanidze with only one goal, to equalize fascism and communism, and this is done not for us, but for our descendants. It is necessary to explain to them how badly we lived before 1991 and how happily they live now, under wise leadership ... etc. We, who lived under socialism, can assess its negative and positive sides, but our descendants will only talk about the camps. So that there is no thought, live differently.
        10. +1
          11 May 2013 13: 46
          Significant message: Liberals no longer speak of millions of innocently ruined, but only hundreds of thousands
      3. +7
        10 May 2013 18: 23
        victims of the exam wrote, not otherwise ... but what to expect, in principle, from the channels daily stuffing their (?) fellow citizens f. ??? because there’s not a single channel where they really say the TRUTH ... all the TV disgrace of the country ... such as the commissioners, a place in Butyrka ... !!!
      4. bezumnyiPIT
        0
        10 May 2013 20: 22
        And what, in your opinion, did he have to go to the Vlasovites? It does not matter for whom, if only against Stalin?
      5. mbr0969
        +4
        10 May 2013 20: 51
        And the authors of the text of a moment of silence would be happy to learn a story, for starters. Buchenwald concentration camps (uprising at the approach of the Americans) and Dachau war of the USSR Red Army did not release them
      6. 0
        11 May 2013 14: 21
        Quote: Gleb
        de says in the text, what is each?
        if you follow his logic, then he could write that 37 million were burning near Prokhorovka, 37 million were fighting near Moscow and Stalingrad, etc. .... it’s silly to understand these words so finely and provocatively translate them into numbers.
        a quote from the text: "You stood to death near Moscow and Stalingrad, carried bread to besieged Leningrad, burned in a tank near Prokhorovka. By dying, you saved millions of lives. You who lost loved ones in Stalin's camps" why didn’t you summarize everything?


        They don't care, the main deer set the direction, the herd flooded. And it also seems to me that the scheme "double dumb fools if they are 20 years old" works here, well or less) Stalin's fanatic began to bleat from scratch, well, as usual in a herd, he is echoed in unison.
        It is unfortunate that now the crowd can not be especially motivated, the main thing is to write emotional garbage, pull a convenient line out of context and develop hysteria and excitement from scratch - this is a sign of a strong debilitation of society. And you can come up with a slogan like crooks and thieves and everyone will repeat.
      7. -1
        11 May 2013 18: 35
        Quote: Gleb
        where does the text say what everyone has?

        Sorry, but you have embarked on a slippery slope protecting the compilers of this text.
        There are NO ERRORS in such texts!
        Honestly, these words were cut, the truth was just a bit inwardly _ And then this ... were noted!
        Already tired, if a political instructor, then a coward at best, and a hero, a former political prisoner, or just a prisoner!
        By the way, people got into the Gulag on the basis of court decisions, even triplets, but decisions! And the decision is made on the basis of documents! And an honest person can be condemned only on the basis of a denunciation!
        So, I do not recall a single case that a scammer would answer for a scam, and given the number of convicts, they, oh, are not few!
        1. 0
          12 May 2013 16: 39
          Quote: Cynic
          that the scammer would answer for the scam, and given the number of convicts, they, oh, are not few!

          While -1
          The heirs of nits are alive. Oh, how they don’t like it when they talk about them out loud.

          Udaltsovschina Tyutukivschina Nemtsovschina she crush in their heads in the bud
      8. postman
        0
        13 May 2013 22: 15
        Gleb is the reference.

        Quote: Gleb
        But you need to think ..

        Thought the author thought, don’t worry.
        He simply considers the rest as idiots.
      9. 0
        15 May 2013 15: 43
        "You stood to death near Moscow and Stalingrad, carried bread to besieged Leningrad, burned in a tank near Prokhorovka. By dying, you saved millions of lives. You who lost loved ones in Stalin's camps" why did not all summarize? --- According to the rules of the Russian language, you should understand that you, who lost loved ones in Stalin's camps, did everything else, what is nitpicking the author, grief onion?
    2. +14
      10 May 2013 17: 47
      In my opinion, this is all purposeful action to denigrate the feat of the Soviet people and change the values ​​in today's heads. The easiest way is to start with the leaders, and then go over to the people themselves, they say they obeyed such a "fool", which means the "fools" themselves .. and therefore everything that they did was also wrong, and in general the USSR started World War II and bombed Hiroshima and Nagosaki with nuclear bombs ... probably they expect to approve such a version of the story, say, by 2, and maybe even earlier (Alan Dales's plan went through all stages). And this is everywhere, in all media, let's lie. culture ... all sorts of scum like Mikhalkov actively adhere to this .. making films like tired of the sun 2030, here is a good (last episode of 2) review of this film

      media molestationPerhaps you can’t say better. Real cold war...
      1. -9
        10 May 2013 18: 16
        Quote: DucksWar
        The easiest way is to start with the leaders, and then go over to the people themselves, they say they obeyed such a "fool", which means the "fools" themselves .. and therefore everything that they did was also wrong, and in general the USSR started World War II and bombed Hiroshima and Nagosaki with nuclear bombs ...



        Nagasaki, if only checked before writing. Yes, it is NECESSARY to resist the distortion of history, however, we ourselves, the temptation to tint our history, the same can not be yielded. Our people fought heroically. The scheme you proposed is insolvent. The government was not stupid, it was cruel, however, to shift this definition to the whole people is pointless. Violent regimes were in many countries, for example, Chile during the time of Augustus Pinochet, but no one calls Chileans stupid, and what’s stupidity, the regime is always difficult to resist, because the organization (and the state is always an organization) is invariably stronger than the spontaneous manifestations of discontent among the population.

        Alan Dallas’s plan has nothing to do with it. I get the impression that you didn’t find the USSR specifically. And the USSR after Stalin was no longer the same. Stalin was a complex person, in a difficult country, at a difficult time, in a difficult situation. Judging is always easier, but it is not necessary to whitewash. I am against both those who smear everything with black paint, and against those who smear everything white ... let historians fight, we need to think about the threats of the present and future.

        PS Nikita Sergeyevich Mikhalkov is all right with patriotism. And those who whitewash the Stalinist regime, pass on insanity as patriotism!
        1. -5
          10 May 2013 18: 25
          The correct position. The one who is really proud of his homeland, its history, does not need to hush up the real negative facts, which, like any country, it has.
          Well it was, and so what?

          PS Well, with Mikhalkov: he may have patriotism. But the mind and talent is a clear deficit.
          1. +1
            10 May 2013 20: 42
            Quote: Spade
            Well it was, and so what?

            Many countries also had a lot of things, only no one exposes this to the whole world except us and is not engaged in "self-flagellation".
            1. -7
              10 May 2013 20: 47
              Those who are ashamed of their story do not show it up.
        2. -6
          10 May 2013 18: 49
          That's right, dear Alexander. Unfortunately, there are many people on this site for whom their own opinions and reasonings have been deleted, and someone’s dogmas have been transplanted and it is impossible to convince them, but this does not mean that you and I should not express our thoughts and ideas. A lot of new participants appear on the site and you need to teach them to think independently, not to let their brains be riddled with different dogmas.
          1. stranik72
            +1
            10 May 2013 19: 44
            zart_arn
            I agree with you, it’s only a strange thing that you yourself have independently learned to think, or while you are studying.
        3. stranik72
          +2
          10 May 2013 19: 54
          alex-defensor
          PS And those who whitewash the Stalinist regime, pass on insanity as patriotism!
          Well, the one who talks about that time at the sewer level is just a favorite of men.
        4. +7
          10 May 2013 20: 05
          And no one whitewashes his personality and his methods of governing the country, there were serious miscalculations. But it’s just now customary to notice only the dark sides and put them at the forefront, completely forgetting about the main thing.
          The government was not stupid, it was cruel, however, to shift this definition to the whole people is pointless.

          You understand this, I understand this for a few more percent of people, well, let's explain this to the whole world that we are not "camels" ... or that not all Germans were fascists, they were simply deceived by Hitler and forced to commit atrocities, rape, kill. As will be presented and condemned! And this is important.

          You are right, I didn’t find a union (I belong to the generation of the 90s), but tell me why, well, why grandparents (mine included) only speak positively about that time, about the same Stalin and comparing it with subsequent rulers and with the current , only in his favor ??? Isn't this the main indicator? In any case, fewer are unhappy.

          Alan Dallas’s plan has nothing to do with it.

          и
          let historians fight, we need to think about the present and future threats.

          what do you mean by current and future threats? those. the fact that today's generation (not yet all but a sufficient part to start worrying) considers everything Russian, sorry, "shit", and the Soviet backward and erroneous, and in general it is necessary to blame this "rash", the heiress of the "scoop" - this is Don't you consider it a threat ??? And these are not just trolls, it happens in life I know enough of such people ... and some are not at all stupid in terms of education.

          And now in the era of the Internet, it is easiest to control the consciousness of people, for example through films that are supposedly true about life !!! Oh well
          PS Nikita Sergeyevich Mikhalkov is all right with patriotism.

          those. show Soviet generals who fought and won battles that influenced millions of fates, a drunken drunk, dumb, somehow greasy and terrible. And the Russian soldier from Mikhalkov’s films is one who pisses right next to the woman who gave birth to a baby, all around are swearing, they are killing their own, they are constantly doggy and only dream of getting female tits and so on. Yes, this is just the limit of patriotism, in a normal person this can only cause a vile feeling, a nauseating reaction. Yes, he’s just a standard of patriot, let's equal (irony).

          and I'm only talking about movies, and the rest of life ?? this is not the moral decay of the population ?? not??

          and you about me
          Nagasaki
      2. 0
        10 May 2013 18: 53
        for a long time did not laugh
      3. MG42
        +6
        10 May 2013 18: 59
        I bought the DVD "Burnt by the Sun 2 Citadel", I regretted that I had thrown the money down the drain, how much wonder Mikhalkov burned money for such chukhnya, maybe budget?
        1. +4
          10 May 2013 20: 17
          kinopoisk.ru states that Burnt by the Sun 2: Ahead was spent € 33, and fees of $ 000 (well, even let it be 000).
          and Burnt by the Sun 2: The Citadel spent $ 45 and raised $ 000. Comments are unnecessary. And yes, all this was filmed with state money
          1. MG42
            +3
            11 May 2013 00: 36
            Mikhalkov not only removed this bad taste <Burnt by the Sun 2 Citadel>, he is probably closer another ideology >>> still from the film
      4. +4
        10 May 2013 18: 59
        What a nasty face for Nikita, it’s scary to think that he is at the head of filmmakers, and here is another bald nasty face from the 9th company.
        1. MG42
          +8
          10 May 2013 19: 19
          Quote: valokordin
          What a nasty face for Nikita, it’s scary to think that he’s headed by filmmakers
        2. alexandr00070
          +2
          11 May 2013 00: 56
          Quote: valokordin
          What a nasty face for Nikita,
    3. +5
      10 May 2013 17: 55
      And what about the war and the Stalinist camps? Do we now have these events equalized?
    4. +9
      10 May 2013 19: 01
      It seemed to me that I misheard that they were again pouring mud on the name of Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich on Victory Day. He even tried to find a repeat of the recording in order to listen again, but failed.
      Shame, shame on the Russian authorities, on the leaders of the state, Putin and Medvedev, on the mass media who committed insult to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the USSR Stalin I.V. on Victory Day, the person to whom we all owe for the Victory, for the great work of creating and defending a popular socialist state.
    5. nickname 1 and 2
      -3
      10 May 2013 19: 11
      Actor needs to heal nerves! Hysterics!

      And such things must be treated calmly!
      You can’t put a scarf on someone else’s mouth!
      Freedom of speech!
      And the more we react to these breaks, the more often they will sound. And such hysterical articles will feed the aftors better.

      It is necessary to ignore all these yelling!

      No need to be provoked!
    6. +7
      10 May 2013 19: 19
      YOU, WHO'S CLOSE AND FAMILY HAVE PASSED THROUGH THE STALIN CAMPS, YOU HAVE LIBERATED WITH OSVENTSIM, BUCHENVALD AND DAHAU ...


      BUCHENWALD AND DAHAU RELEASED THE AMERICANS, WHAT THE FUCK IS THEIR CLOSE AND RELATIVES IN THE STALIN'S CAMP FOR?
      1. loisop
        0
        12 May 2013 14: 49
        Duc, eta .. "Espionage" (58.6), doesn't it roll?
    7. Kostya pedestrian
      +2
      10 May 2013 20: 18
      And yet, if you simply make up a word from 1 letters of the speaker’s statement, we get the RESIDENCE - add A or BUT - we get that some fascist clans decided to seriously break us and erase (rich bastards, super rich), if not ourselves the victorious nations of fascism, as the hitler wanted, then at least destroy the memory of their defeat, and take revenge on the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the victors to our old people.

      So it turns out that the ZK liberated the ZK, and the Germans simply - exemplary police officers and warders. The very thing will be led by the UN troops forcing peace in the 3rd World War, and subordinate the resources of Russia, while we will exhaust each other with the United States.

      Australia has already been conquered with the help of fugitive Aporteans and Banderavets and former Deutsche and Syoiko settlers - we have Volkswagen, the brainchild of Hitler, Himler and Goebbils in the synagogue areas, a favorite means of transportation. And as soon as people containing the Holocaust Museum can come to work in this museum on Volkswagen? belay
    8. -2
      10 May 2013 20: 32
      I will say this, my great-grandfather is my grandmother’s father in 158 art. The Criminal Code for having married the ex-wife, the mullahs condemned 2 times for 10 years, left in 1953. Another great-grandfather died of hunger as a communist, and did not reach his 2 km. he carried seeds but didn’t touch a gram. Out of 16 brothers, my grandfather (he fought in World War II medals for courage, for military services, Order of the Red Banner, 2 Red Stars, World War 1-3 degrees), only one survived.
      May be enough?!
    9. +5
      10 May 2013 21: 23
      Quote: xerus.sb
      I do not think about chance! Vile! Dirty!

      Why be surprised? Where did you see Russian television in Russia ??? wassat
    10. potap2872
      0
      10 May 2013 22: 45
      just librarians ((((((((((((
    11. rolik
      +5
      11 May 2013 01: 58
      Quote: xerus.sb
      I do not think about chance! Vile! Dirty!

      Unfortunately, our speaker institute has degenerated. Now on television you can, even without surprise and embarrassment, hear words that are more suitable for the lesson than educated people.
      The era of Soviet and Russian announcers ended with the departure of Igor Leonidovich Kirillov, Anna Nikolaevna Shatilova, N.M. Andreeva, V.P. Tkachenko and many others. It seems that, for the most part, on television now there are people who have fallen on the role of an announcer with the patronage of relatives. 90% of people cannot speak Russian correctly and make sentences correctly. The TV presenter should first show respect to the viewer and show him his attitude. This is especially necessary in our rather harsh time, when people lack attention, the warmth of some kind of human. Even if you just read the information, why don't you smile with a slight smile? Now, for the most part, it is: he came, he dangled on his salary and left. Or today’s shows: they’re sitting, joking with each other for an hour in the studio, muttering something under their breath, they joked themselves, laughed themselves. I do not care, the viewer understood me, did not understand. The main thing is that I have support: the crowd there is behind the scenes, the co-hosts are so funny. Why do we need such programs that they carry? Either they show themselves how beautiful and wonderful they are, or they work for each other, but not for the viewer. This, of course, does not mean that there are no good leaders now. Yes, but it is a huge rarity. Now there are no such announcers with a capital letter, on which they equated, on which they wanted to be like. Because the most important things that distinguish a real announcer have disappeared from television: goodwill towards the viewer, the culture of the word and the culture of communication.
      Yes, now television has become much livelier and more active, but the correctness of speech, however, should not be forgotten.
    12. chpnik
      +3
      11 May 2013 02: 28
      Hi guys. Specifically registered to chat here.
      I looked in the YouTube archive for minutes of silence from previous years. I must say that we have heard exactly such a text since 1995. And no one paid attention to it. The text was longer in these years, but the words in question were the same.
      Who wrote them, I have not figured out yet.

      http://youtu.be/lwMpqhfjZvY
      Victory Day 65: Minute of Silence May 9, 2010
      Here the text is prepared on the plot of a 10-minute minute of silence on central TV of the late nineties sample, 1995-1999

      http://youtu.be/zQKhJp5AEmk
      Minute of silence (TNT, May 9.05.2011, XNUMX)
      Read by Igor Kirillov

      http://youtu.be/ytVOBwozGLM
      A moment of silence - May 9, 2012

      http://youtu.be/XpqIHEDssxo
      A moment of silence (09.05.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX). The blessed memory of the fallen in the fight against fascism.


      http://youtu.be/dAp39Bd820w
      Victory Day (minute of silence)
      Posted on 02.05.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX
  2. +13
    10 May 2013 07: 19
    To accept the Victory Parade, having lounged in an armchair, the Supreme is not ashamed.
    1. +11
      10 May 2013 15: 53
      Quote: Mikhail M
      To accept the Victory Parade, having lounged in an armchair, the Supreme is not ashamed.

      and read on a piece of paper?
    2. +14
      10 May 2013 15: 55
      Quote: Mikhail M
      To accept the Victory Parade, having lounged in an armchair, the Supreme is not ashamed.
      I am ashamed. But we should not be ashamed, but those who allegedly speak on behalf of the people of Russia (USSR). But they don’t know shame, it’s the bayan, who sharply fell into the hands of power.
      1. shpuntik
        +9
        10 May 2013 16: 08
        Mechanic Today, 15:55 ↑ New
        But they don’t know shame, it’s the bayan, who sharply fell into the hands of power.

        Yes, it can be seen from the faces: as if doing a favor. Money is not measured, but they are afraid of the officer corps. Time is being delayed ... Tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, soon. The pension is paid, the salaries of the military were raised exactly before the elections. Because if this is not done, then they will not sit in armchairs for a day. And there is no development of the country, and already twenty years have passed since- "Vote, or you will lose!"
      2. SASCHAmIXEEW
        +6
        10 May 2013 16: 53
        What bayarets? From rags to riches it will be so much more accurate, how many criminals for corruption are in the power of one thousandth, the rest is lowered on the brakes ... And these are honest people, "elite" ..
      3. S_mirnov
        +10
        10 May 2013 17: 40
        "It's a shame. But not we should be ashamed, but those who allegedly speak on behalf of the people of Russia" You and every Russian should be ashamed that they allowed the collapse of their homeland and tolerate traitors and traders at the head of the country. Otherwise, nothing will change, and we will wait until conscience wakes up in a crook!
        1. +3
          10 May 2013 23: 18
          Quote: S_mirnov
          and we will wait when conscience wakes up in a crook!

          Totally agree with you! She will never wake up with them!
    3. +6
      10 May 2013 16: 12
      In the last days of Victory, I saw in the photo how he and Medvedev were sitting at the table and veterans were standing nearby. This year they took this into account. Veterans are sitting next to them (in the parade). Maybe Putin has been replaced? There is a joke in every joke. But something is not funny .
      1. +9
        10 May 2013 16: 30
        Quote: Dilshat
        In the last days of Victory, I saw in the photo how he and Medvedev were sitting at the table and veterans were standing nearby. This year they took this into account. Veterans are sitting next to them (in the parade). Maybe Putin has been replaced? There is a joke in every joke. But something is not funny .
        A veteran in 90 years may sit, it’s just hard for him, but if Putin is the president, and not a condom, he must respect. Moreover, he is the commander in chief. This is just rudeness. By the way, in 3 volts (2 finger batteries), did it slip past?
        1. S_mirnov
          +1
          11 May 2013 00: 33
          In komenta I agree. And here I will explain:
          "By the way, in 3 volts (2 penlight batteries), why did you slip by?" - most of the people who communicate here do not just receive money, but earn. It means that they do not always sit on the site, I also do not have time to respond to all attacks in my direction, this is normal. No reason to reproach.
  3. +21
    10 May 2013 07: 29
    Brezhnev standing took the parade at 78 years old
    1. +13
      10 May 2013 16: 29
      Quote: vjatsergey
      Brezhnev standing took the parade at 78 years old

      Brezhnev still fought, and the current ....
  4. +8
    10 May 2013 07: 41
    Watch a video of the past, the year before last, etc .. years and hear the same words:YOU WHICH ARE CLOSE AND FAMILY PASSED THROUGH THE STALIN CAMP 10 years, they are exactly repeated
    1. +6
      10 May 2013 15: 51
      Quote: Gleb
      the same words: YOU, WHOSE CLOSE AND KIND HAVE PASSED THROUGH THE STALIN CASES of 10 years, exactly repeat them

      Why are they repeated? Who came up with this "fiery" speech? Apparently, this "someone" had everyone in the camps under Stalin, but here they got into the people ... Outrageous.
      1. 0
        10 May 2013 16: 31
        What are these cons? Poke your nose where I'm wrong. Not, if you liked the speech, just say it and discuss it.
      2. andrre122
        +4
        10 May 2013 16: 32
        These speeches were written by the Trotskyists who were not finished by Comrade Stalin. He prevented them from drinking Bavarian beer with this victory. They cannot forgive.
    2. +4
      10 May 2013 16: 00
      Quote: Gleb
      10 years, they are exactly repeated
      For some reason they are repeated! winked Let's hope for the last time. wink
      1. +1
        10 May 2013 18: 24
        Do you think that Putin will not be president in the year 14? or don’t know his opinion on this issue?
        1. +2
          10 May 2013 19: 17
          Quote: Gleb
          Do you think that Putin will not be president in the year 14? or don’t know his opinion on this issue?

          We assume that not everyone has an unambiguous opinion on this issue in our society. This is firstly. Secondly, I hope in a year there will be more and more like-minded people in our country (based on the trend). Thirdly, Putin will speak and conduct politics based on the interests and aspirations of our society. And if the people are against the indiscriminate stomping of I.V. Stalin, then I think Putin will not object and go against the people's memory. wink Maybe I fantasized with a one-year period, but the fact that this crap with de-stylization ends is for sure!
          It is not in vain that they say that the people deserve the government they have.
          And the same with television. They will do what our society demands. They will not go anywhere! Remember how last year we jointly achieved that "4 Days in May" was removed from the rental. This dirty and false tape about the war with Guskov's participation. Now almost the whole country knows this corrupt actress! And I hope they don’t shake hands with him in a decent society! So we will treat all the detractors of the history and memory of the people. Do not think that we are powerless, water wears away a stone!
          1. +2
            10 May 2013 19: 38
            Putin will speak and conduct policies based on the interests and aspirations of our society.

            you want to say that he announced the opinion of society when he said that during the reign of Stalin there were reprisals, crimes against his own people and such a price is unacceptable?
            in a year, there will be more of us on this site and generally like-minded people in the country
            the opinion of like-minded people on this site was announced by the president; are we society?
            Opinion on this issue, let us not all have an unequivocal opinion in our society.
            but don’t you think that brazen liberal disinformation cannot so easily split society and so sharply debated? And the question still arises: are those who agree with Putin who are these? enemies ?? as such people are called here?
            1. +1
              10 May 2013 19: 48
              During the reign
              Feel the difference! He did not directly blame Stalin. Or do you think the apparatus of governing the country at that time was different from ours!? Not sure. If now half of the government consists of liberals, then at that time there were no "Comintern" leaders who remained after the October Revolution. as an example more! And they, I assure you, were much more terrible with their concepts of the world revolution!
              1. 0
                10 May 2013 19: 55
                He did not directly blame Stalin.

                really?smile
                but don’t know why many people on this site run into Putin about the fact that he’s sitting in a parade? Don't they understand that "the apparatus of governing the country at that time does not differ from ours and half of the government consists of liberals"
                1. +1
                  10 May 2013 20: 25
                  Quote: Gleb
                  but don’t know why many people on this site run into Putin about the fact that he is sitting in a parade?

                  Unfortunately, I didn’t have the pleasure of watching the parade yesterday. I was at work. I didn’t see if he was sitting or accepting the passage of columns. There was an incident in the past, I don’t deny it. But people are changing. The president is changing too. I hope that understanding will come about and should manage our a multinational and multiconfessional country! I in no way idealize Putin, but honestly I don’t see a replacement for him at this stage. Once again I repeat. The society deserves the ruler it deserves! It may happen that over time a person appears who will replace him, but not Today. Society is too mottled now to please one not to carry out repressions against others! And it is not known which in the country has recently become larger. My personal opinion does not matter. Look at the root.
  5. Rrv
    Rrv
    +12
    10 May 2013 15: 49
    --------------------
    1. Rrv
      Rrv
      +5
      10 May 2013 15: 50
      ----------------------
    2. djon3volta
      -15
      10 May 2013 16: 02
      Quote: RRV
      --------------------

      RRV I remember your pictures in the topic about the hamster march on May 6th.
      1. +10
        10 May 2013 16: 34
        Quote: djon3volta
        RV I remember your pictures in the topic about the hamster march 6 in May.
        What is yours about? Well, let them come for me. If tomorrow you are gone, the country will not lose much. Well, let them put me in prison, do you think after that you will add patriotic comments? You are not doing anything except screaming for the country. So you probably understand where yesterday’s sock should score? Vadim Smirnov, you can ban me after this koment, but there’s just no patience to watch this empty call on the site.
        1. djon3volta
          -2
          10 May 2013 16: 41
          Quote: Mechanic
          there’s simply no patience to observe this

          soon they will ban for Putin’s support, I won’t be surprised belay
          Glory to Putin !!! GLORY TO RUSSIA!!! HOORAY!!!

          1. andrre122
            +8
            10 May 2013 16: 56
            And here he is the cult of personality.
          2. +6
            10 May 2013 16: 59
            Quote: djon3volta
            soon they will ban for Putin’s support, I won’t be surprised
            Glory to Putin !!! GLORY TO RUSSIA!!! HOORAY!!!
            That’s all the good of you, but why didn’t you copy the dumbbell in the quote? the true patriot does not wear cowards in the color of the flag and does not yell glory to the government. You are not a patriot, you’re just a jerk.
          3. +11
            10 May 2013 17: 08
            djon3volta

            Why are you and your Putin scampering around like a written bag? What in Russia, besides him, are no worthy people? And mistakes must be answered. Especially for such.
            1. djon3volta
              0
              10 May 2013 17: 11
              Quote: aviamed90
              Why are you rushing around with Putin

              how is that what? did you watch this video?

              1. +4
                10 May 2013 17: 22
                Quote: djon3volta
                how is that what? did you watch this video?
                Well, judging by the video, we finally can mega cool. Answer the simple question, what are you doing for the country except that you post dubious videos? Pustozolon it in Africa and a puffer, but well, an Internet fighter is also suitable for you. You do not climb weakly on wikis, and it’s not bad at Rutub.
                1. yur
                  yur
                  +3
                  10 May 2013 19: 40
                  Excuse me, what are you doing for the country? Or does your idle talk have any special value?
          4. Rrv
            Rrv
            +6
            10 May 2013 17: 33
            Quote: djon3volta

            Glory to Putin !!! GLORY TO RUSSIA!!! HOORAY!!!
            1. -3
              10 May 2013 19: 34
              Rrv
              Well, this is generally unscrupulous on your part! Who privatized !? Putin !?
              I really didn’t know! Apparently now we’re not embarrassed about absolutely anything and everything is allowed. So know that you poke buttons without fear of responsibility for libel, thanks also to Putin! Enrage Internet trolls!
              1. Rrv
                Rrv
                +6
                10 May 2013 19: 49
                Sergey, please rage less emotionally and treat the memory:
                1. +2
                  10 May 2013 19: 59
                  Quote: RRV
                  Sergey, please rage less emotionally and treat the memory:

                  My memory doesn’t betray me yet. Only you turn on your conscience and your memory and remember what wave Yeltsin came to at that time! I don’t take responsibility from myself and don’t scream at the top of my mind that Yeltsin didn’t support then. But this Order Yeltsin Putin will be a shameful order both for me and a dirty stain in my past. I did the right thing, that I handed it to-weare now, the whole society from the pages of the Internet so that they would not forget and make mistakes again !!!
                  It is a pity that the Order of Judah would not be stronger!
                  1. Rrv
                    Rrv
                    +6
                    10 May 2013 20: 38
                    Your words are very solemn, but their meaning is zero.

                    Can't you see what is happening with science, education, living standards, with the country at last? Yes, you see all this! Only instead of just to compare the FACTS, you, like in the 90s, are led to quasi-patriotic rhetoric, and come up with delusional conspiracy theories about the Chekist-patriot in the camp of liberals.

                    What worries Putin? Almost every day I hear from him about the business climate and the need for foreign investment in the economy. The Chubais pimple - Zhenya Fedorov - also often talks about foreign investment, and also says that 95% of Russian enterprises are de facto owned by foreigners.

                    Do you understand what investment is? The main investment instruments are loans and the purchase of shares, and the purchase of shares is essentially the purchase of an enterprise - in part or in full (depending on the volume of shares purchased).

                    Thus, the words "we need foreign investment" mean that the SPEAKER OF THESE WORDS OFFERS THE FOREIGN CAPITAL TO BUY THE REMAINING 5% OF RUSSIAN ENTERPRISES, OR AT THE WAY END TO DRIVE THEM INTO A LONG PIT MEDIA!

                    Do you understand WHO you support ?!
                    1. -2
                      10 May 2013 21: 16
                      Quote: RRV
                      Thus, the words "we need foreign investment" mean that the SPEAKER OF THESE WORDS OFFERS THE FOREIGN CAPITAL TO BUY THE REMAINING 5% OF RUSSIAN ENTERPRISES, OR AT THE WAY END TO DRIVE THEM INTO A LONG PIT MEDIA!

                      Not necessarily and not a fact. With a competent and correct policy of the central bank, this can be avoided. Well, and if the state also helps especially large and strategically important enterprises from time to time, then not everything is as bad as you write.
                      1. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        +1
                        10 May 2013 22: 12
                        Under what policy? For 13 years, the Central Bank’s policy was very specific and no one even tried to change it!

                        Then - how do you not change this policy, and investments, one hell, will remain either buying up or loans.

                        Do you all fantasize that if yes, if only - have you ever seen real affairs?

                        Who needs to be that every 4 to 6 years they trust someone who has thrown you repeatedly? Maybe you regularly give money and loans to those who do not regularly return them?

                        Putin’s policy has not changed for 13 years. President Putin made EBN. Putin came to Moscow on the recommendation of Chubais, who then worked at Putin's campaign headquarters. Putin worked with Sobchak with Medvedev. Putin dragged Medvedev to Moscow; Putin also did President Medvedev. What we are talking about?!
                      2. 0
                        10 May 2013 23: 46
                        Quote: RRV
                        Putin’s policy has not changed for 13 years

                        And Moscow was not built right away. What do you propose! What system, build? To jail all the oligarchs, shoot all the thieves and officials and follow the path of North Korea? So you won't go abroad on vacation. You will forget about the Internet. There are queues in stores right away. I do not doubt that the left forces will find and promote a candidate for the role of "dictator". Only you personally want this !?
                        Look around. In what country of Europe or Asia is the people living better than in Russia!? Our people have stopped for the most part to leave for work over the hill, and Asians roam to us in droves. Is there a good life? Americans are preparing for a civil war, and Europeans will soon become involuntary Muslims. Otherwise, they will cut it out. Juvenile deprives children of their parents and gives their pidos for adoption ... am. Bank deposits are frozen and sheared without asking.
                        The whole world is looking at Russia with hope, which can make the Russians create a more or less fair society.
                        I personally don’t care how Putin came to power, it’s important what he started to do after the EBN! And if I served in the army in 93 under a contract and did not see a salary for months, now young people are not the last to go to serve in the army based on material considerations There are questions to the board, but only questions. And they are resolved and are being resolved. And it’s very easy to defame a person sitting at a computer without knowing the real situation and the situation as a whole, it’s more difficult to apologize. If you later apologize to anyone.
                      3. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        +2
                        11 May 2013 01: 39
                        What do I suggest? Oddly enough, democracy, to put it bluntly, is democracy, which is nothing but the process of fulfilling the order (will) of citizens of the state by citizens themselves and (or) their representatives, taking into account the possibilities of natural, economic and social resources within the borders of the state.

                        Nobody is going to plant oligarchs, as we see, rather the opposite happens: wek.com.ua/article/50504/

                        I would not want to go along the path of North Korea, but Vova & ko over the past 10 years with the final entry into the WTO have done everything to finish off industry and agriculture - for this reason, queues may arise.

                        At the moment, no more than 25% of the population can afford to go abroad; the number is the same for restaurants and cafes.

                        The Internet? And what prevents us from developing our technologies? And why do you think a dictator? Without leadership in any way? Or maybe now the nuts are not tightened in a certain way? Didn’t you try to uphold the truth in our courts?

                        In the noose of hunger and hopelessness? And find me the official statistics on the number of homeless people and street children. I just didn’t succeed - it turns out that the state is not dealing with this issue, but the bastards of NGOs voiced numbers from 5 to 9 million, of which up to 40% are children!

                        In which country do people live better? And you look at the ratings of the standard of living, or follow my comments - I laid out statistics on minimum wages as a percentage of GDP per capita.
                        Our people stopped leaving, because those who could have already left!
                        Do Asians come to us from Japan or South Korea?

                        The USA and Europe have their own problems and troubles - so what? What does the fact that from our point of view they have a worse situation on some issues? What do you prefer to be equal to - for the best, or for the worst?

                        Juvenile? And who is pushing her with us, is it not by chance that Putin & ko? And who originally concluded the contract for the supply of children in 3.14ndostan - not Putin? And the fact that we can instill a lot of money in show business, which is a big sport, and for disabled children who can be cured, volunteers have to collect money - is this normal ?!

                        What do you care about bank deposits? Thanks to the great Pu 2, the country's irrevocable annual budget is raising the US economy - haven't you thought about that? The world is not looking at Russia with hope, but licking its lips in anticipation of dinner!

                        What did Putin begin to do after coming to power? Yes, nothing special - he began to row everything for himself & ko, as before him and EBN did.

                        You did not see a salary then, but others do not see now - Remind Pikalevo? Maybe someone sat there, or paid a forfeit?
                        Youth goes to a contract from hopelessness, Kadyrov receives a hero, but they don’t even remember Efentiev! The minimum salary is BELOW! cost of living! The average salary in the country is at a level at which not only should, but MAY be minimal! Financing of the Caucasus is 10 times higher than the rest of the regions - and this is through money, not development of production.

                        These are not "questions" - they are betrayal of the country's interests.
                      4. 0
                        11 May 2013 07: 06
                        I read your post and listened to Echo of Moscow. smile They are trying their best to operate with the same derivatives. They even agreed that Putin is a traitor to the Motherland! It is not surprising that they have such a large audience. It seems that everything is correct, but here's the thing, why you and them have one blame for everything. GDP!? Your desires to remove him from power, surprisingly coincide! And the West can't wait for the rest of society in Russia to "see clearly" and become like you and you like democratic citizens. Stop cheating us! Putin down with the Kremlin! ... But who is interesting to replace him !? Can you suggest a candidate !? And we will consider together!
                        Still, it turns out strange, like we want the same thing, but we don't find a common language. People on Bolotnaya also wanted to solve everything radically and as quickly as possible, but this is a revolution. And Russia will not survive one more. Therefore, do not be tormented by the soul torment for Pikalevo and Serdyukov, those who are supposed to do it are engaged in them, but rather live in the present day and enjoy life! I am sure that you personally receive your salary on time now and if you use the Internet, there is no "minimum wage" wink And do not read anything liberal in the morning. Everything will be fine! hi
                      5. +1
                        11 May 2013 09: 25

                        German expert on Putin.
                      6. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        11 May 2013 12: 00
                        Quote: sergo0000
                        why do both you and them have one GDP to blame for everything !?


                        He is a personification of power - listing ALL surnames will take too much time.


                        Your desires to remove him from power, surprisingly coincide! And the West can't wait for the rest of society in Russia to "see clearly" and become similar to you and to you like democratic citizens.


                        Yes, in words.


                        Only who is interested in replacing him!? Can you suggest a candidate!? And we will consider together!


                        During the imitation of the orange threat, 2nd in line was Zu.
                        As for me, I already called the names - Mukhin, Katasonov, etc.


                        And Russia cannot survive another one
                        .

                        Justification? Or did you believe the word Pu? )))
                        And where does the revolution come from? Change of Power is not a revolution yet.


                        Therefore, let you not be tormented by mental anguish for Pikalyovo and Serdyukov, those who are supposed to do it should deal with them, but rather live today

                        You blamed yourself so patriotically, laid out the Judah medal. And what about the problems of other people ...
                        This, Sergei, is called - cattle psychology. negative
                      7. 0
                        11 May 2013 16: 26
                        Mukhin about ralliesI read at one time the enthusiasm of this engineer winked
                        I especially liked the Katyn revelations. I’m directly zombie with my investigations. I even went to his official website and got acquainted with the biography (also naturally official).
                        ... In 1995, the government of Kazakhstan transferred the Ermakovsky ferroalloy plant to foreigners. Mukhin is trying to save the enterprise from the invaders. He is fired, but the prosecutor cancels the dismissal. Mukhin is trying to raise the workers to fight for their rights and insists on the creation of a strike committee. However, the workers passively support the new owners, who still survive Mukhin from the factory.
                        And now as it is.
                        Information about the life path of Mukhin is available for free study in Pedivikia. In 1973 he graduated from the Dnepropetrovsk Metallurgical Institute. In 1973-1995 worked at the Ermakovsky ferroalloy plant in Kazakhstan, holding positions from engineer to deputy director.
                        With the onset of the nineties, Mukhin came to a harsh change. The plant in which he worked was bought by a Japanese corporation. Since the Mukhin skills of the shovel manager were not needed by the Japanese, they attempted to expel him from the factory. Mukhin tried to organize mass support for himself by the workers of the plant, but he flipped and epically leaked. The Japs, however, also decided to settle the conflict amicably. Mukhin was given 24 thousand dirty green papers, for which he bought an apartment in default city and organized his cozy newspaper “Duel”.
                        And what does he say about the great nuclear physicist Landau !! (easy to find on Wiki.)
                        And here is the opinion of his contemporaries: Chief editor of the journal “Taxes and Financial Law” A. V. Bryzgalin, candidate of legal sciences: “... I completely want to agree with the famous opposition writer and journalist Yu. I. Mukhin, who believes that the stratification of society it is necessary to carry out not by social classes and by belonging to the means of production (as communists), or by nationalities (as representatives of social-nationalism), but according to the principle of “creator” and “parasite.” ”[8]
                        Russian political scientist, Doctor of Political Sciences S. F. Chernyakhovsky: “Yuri Ignatievich is an extravagant man: for example, he has Hitler - the greatest commander of all time, more talented not only that of Zhukov, but also of Napoleon and Suvorov combined. Now, he has Nemtsov - well done! I think that the majority of Russian citizens do not share his opinion. ”[9]
                        Here is your ambiguous idol! smile For me personally, he is one of those patriots who would not have been better.
                      8. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        12 May 2013 09: 22
                        Quote: sergo0000
                        Mukhin about ralliesI read at one time the enthusiasm of this engineer


                        You yourself voice the problem, but for some reason you cannot understand it: it is not a matter of surnames and their carriers, it is a matter of the country's movement vector, and how much this vector corresponds to the ideas of the majority.
                        The president is not a sacred cow. The President is only the supreme coordinator and guarantor in matters of implementation of the Basic Law. He must not be a politician - he must be an ethic.

                        Reread again my definition of democracy - it is one hundred percent consistent even with the current Constitution, this is what it should be - citizens make an order, the Government, personified by the guarantor, executes it and is responsible for how it does it. All this is in the Basic Law!

                        But in fact, we see that the Basic Law is violated from and to that socio-economic policy runs counter to the demand of the majority, has a neoliberal orientation vector and defends the interests of minorities. All this, in conjunction with global trends, leads us to neo-feudalism.

                        I do not agree with this. You - decide for yourself.
              2. +1
                12 May 2013 12: 48
                So Putin is not trying to fix something in terms of "privatization" ...
          5. +4
            10 May 2013 17: 36
            Quote: djon3volta
            soon they will ban for Putin’s support, I won’t be surprised




            no one will ban anyone for their support here, but for the meaningless cheers and meaningless your comments you will personally get the minuses from me, Satisfies ?!
            PSdjon3volta VV Putin does not need your support, he is already elected and acting president of the Russian Federation.
            1. djon3volta
              -4
              10 May 2013 19: 03
              Quote: Apollon
              djon3volta V.V. Putin does not need your support

              Putin needs the support of each individual person. The more people support Putin, the more reliable his power, is it logical? Here I, as a resident of Russia, feel that Putin’s people in Russia REAL support, but on the Internet, of course, the advantage is not in his favor. But again I want recall that 64% of those who came to the polls voted for Putin, those who did not come are their problems, you had to go!
              you don’t think that there are so many of you on the Internet, I mean those who are against Putin, you (Anitputins) can’t even collect 200 thousand signatures for a visa regime with Asia on the Internet, and more than 60 million Russians visit Runet even at 4.5 millionth of Georgia collected more than 1 million signatures for the resignation of Sakashvili !!! and in 143 millionth Russia it’s too lazy to collect a million signatures ??? now think how many people on the Internet are interested in politics))) even this site has how many visitors a day, people 500-800 typed? Even if all 800 are against Putin, is that a lot? ))) you can even see the minuses, well, they put 10-30 minuses to the person, which means 10-30 people against Putin, but is this a lot? laughing
              1. +4
                10 May 2013 19: 23
                Quote: djon3volta
                Putin needs the support of every single person


                Vladimir Putin will not need support. If there is a well-adjusted personnel policy:
                Questions to you
                1. Why did Surkov resign (or was dismissed) ?! Doesn’t you think that this is a yellow card in relation to D. Medvedev?! And that means to himself.
                2. In the hands of the RF IC, there are thousands of facts regarding Serdyukov and Vasilyeva. Why, one is still passing as a witness and the other has taken a preventive measure against house arrest. How to understand this.
                3. The Minister of Education, Livanov, another Minister Skrynnik there are a lot of questions in relation to them.
                4. Skolkovo, this is generally a separate issue, and extensive.
                5. On what basis did MP L. Ponomarev receive a fee of several hundred thousand dollars, and for what. Explain on whose side this fee was issued ?!
                6.What can you write about the activities of the former head of OJSC "Resorts of the Caucasus"
                7. What positive aspects do you personally see in the activities (with the exception of the ministries of the power block) of the government ?!
                8 And ​​finally, describe the large-scale, multi-billion dollar thefts committed in the country.

                Continue or enough ?!

                Yes, I almost forgot, I would like to receive your feedback about Chubais. laughing
                1. djon3volta
                  -5
                  10 May 2013 19: 38
                  Quote: Apollon
                  Questions to you

                  Listen, Appalon, can I ask you one question? are you a citizen of which country? you do not live in Russia as I noticed. here tell me if you do not live in Russia that you care so much about our country in Russia? do you have little power here on the forum, you are a moderator on a Russian site, but you live not in Russia.
                  I was removed from the group of Kurginyants on Facebook a year ago, and you know who the admins were there? one from Armenia another from Georgia. wink and these people are residents of other states, go into Russian affairs and decide to whom what can be written or not. They removed me because I raised the topic that the Kurghyans also rallied everything, then it’s against that if only to rally and protest, and I compared them with the Orangemen who also rally constantly.
                  here I don’t go to Ukrainian, Georgian, Uzbek sites, and I don’t write DOLA YANUKOVICH or SLAVA YANUKOVICH there. I’m sitting on RuNet, on Russian sites, I don’t go into the politics of other states in their ukrnet or on the Internet.
                  1. +4
                    10 May 2013 19: 53
                    Quote: djon3volta
                    Listen, Appalon, can I ask you one question? are you a citizen of which country? you do not live in Russia as I noticed. here tell me if you do not live in Russia that you care so much about our country in Russia? do you have little power here on the forum, you are a moderator on a Russian site, but you live not in Russia.
                    I was removed from the group of Kurginyants on Facebook a year ago, and you know who the admins were there? one from Armenia another from Georgia. and these people are residents of other states, go into Russian affairs and decide to whom what can be written or not. They removed me because I raised the topic that the Kurghyans also rallied everything, then it’s against that if only to rally and protest, and I compared them with the Orangemen who also rally constantly.


                    First, do not listen, but listen.
                    Secondly, at least a lot of questions.
                    Thirdly, with regard to my citizenship, although I do not live in Russia, many things connect me with this beautiful country. Follow my past comments. You will find answers there.
                    Fourth, just a few minutes ago, one demotivator was deleted, one visitor, I won’t mention anyone (admins or other moderators can easily check this) for disrespectful attitude towards V.V. Putin.
                    Fifth, I, unlike some Russian citizens, do not write shortened the name of the president, but write in full, guess what I'm hinting at.
                    Sixth, we were in one state and was born during the time of this state, so the fate of Russia and its future are not indifferent to me.
                    Seventh mess in my state is enough, you can believe me.
                    The last one, but what about the questions I posed. Leaving aside my questions, I think that you have nothing to answer, which means without a meaningful discussion with you, entering does not make sense. laughing

                    PS That's the trouble, you can’t even identify by the flag of which state I am a citizen, well, so click on the flag with your cursor. Everything is clear with you. laughing
                    1. djon3volta
                      -7
                      10 May 2013 20: 15
                      Quote: Apollon
                      thus, I believe that you have nothing to answer, which means that without a meaningful discussion with you, entering does not make sense.

                      why can’t I answer? I can - I’m not the defendant and you are not an investigator, I’m not worried about these guys that you listed at the time. If you want a specific answer - turn to Navalny, he’s our main online anti-corruption fighter, he will tell you everything, who, how much and from whom he stole, laughing he cares very much that he’s already climbing out of his skin, turning inside out, thinking about Russia, about Russian peasants laughing
                      1. +2
                        10 May 2013 20: 24
                        Quote: djon3volta
                        why can't i answer? can


                        empty rhetoric, see answer above.
            2. +2
              10 May 2013 19: 06
              Quote: Apollon
              PSdjon3volta VV Putin does not need your support, he is already elected and acting president of the Russian Federation.

              Vladimir Vladimirovich does not need anyone's support, including yours.
        2. Baboon
          +1
          10 May 2013 17: 01
          A clear remark at the end)))
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +1
      10 May 2013 17: 43
      Quote: RRV
      --------------------

      At that time (sitting in the parade in the picture), Medvedev was the boss, and Putin was a subordinate. Can you imagine what would happen if Putin stood up?
      At that level, such errors are not allowed. It is possible to substitute a neighbor at the household level - they don’t forgive it there and they don’t allow such mistakes.
      Medvedev and Putin are representatives of different clans and they have their own interests. Putin is a spokesman for security officials. Medvedev - Western liberals. Perhaps sometimes these interests coincide.
      The media (TV) constantly showing one after the other in the news, thus, on a subconscious level, form an opinion of their unity, so that the people would not have a difference between them, there would be no doubt about their common "deeds", so that the sins of one would be automatically assigned to the other ...

      Putin, as president, supreme commander in chief, hosted parades while standing that year and that.
      1. Rrv
        Rrv
        0
        10 May 2013 18: 19
        Quote: Boris55
        Medvedev and Putin are representatives of different clans and they have their own interests. Putin is a spokesman for security officials. Medvedev - Western liberals.


        Can you give any FACTS to suggest that this is true?

        I, in turn, want to remind you that Medvedev and Putin have been members of the same clan since their joint work in the mayor’s office of St. Petersburg in the year 91, although it is likely that they met earlier - at LSU.
        1. -2
          10 May 2013 20: 41
          Quote: RRV
          Can you give any FACTS to suggest that this is true?

          I can say that Putin has done useful for Russia.
          I can’t say that I did Medvedev useful for Russia.

          You need examples:
          President Medvedev - what happened to Libya
          President Putin - what about Syria.

          More: http://klin.hutt.ru/viewtopic.php?id=758#p1408
          If you do not see the difference, I feel sorry for you.
          1. Rrv
            Rrv
            0
            10 May 2013 21: 57
            These are not facts, Boris, this is the implementation of agreements with Syria and propaganda.

            But these are the facts: the subsistence minimum for the able-bodied population in the 4th quarter of 2012 is 7 thousand 263 rubles.
            The minimum wage in 2012 is 4 thousand 611 rubles.

            The minimum wage as a percentage of GDP (PPP) per capita is 12% (17.5% of nominal GDP), minus 13 percent tax.
            Minimum wage as a percentage of GDP per capita:
            USA, Brazil - 33%, not taxed.
            Germany, France, Canada (commodity economy) - 38%, not taxed.
            Great Britain, Cyprus, China - 50%, tax is minimal.
            Australia (commodity economy) - 67%, minimum wage tax 17%.

            You do not spare me, Boris - you spare 75% of the population of Russia.
            1. -1
              10 May 2013 23: 08
              And how do you like this video.



              I have some other data. According to the State Department and the CIA, Russia is at 5, 8 place in the world.
              http://klin.hutt.ru/viewtopic.php?id=761
              1. Rrv
                Rrv
                -1
                11 May 2013 03: 34
                Quote: Boris55
                _

                Answered in PM.
  6. +4
    10 May 2013 15: 50
    For even underdeveloped idiot It is known that now in Russia he sits in prisons as much as he did under Stalin. And in the USA even more.

    Oh how !!!! where am I now first of all, after the holidays, to the hospital or again to school?

    But the broadcast program was really annoying.
    On one channel, lascivious girls drove 4 hours of vodka to the front, on another half-platoon of cheerful saboteurs, they gouged half of Germany, the sire women were friends with the teacher all day ....
    1. +4
      10 May 2013 19: 50
      Please note. Not on one channel, because of political correctness, they did not show how the Cossacks, Caucasians and Kalmyks fought on the side of the Germans. And the UPA and the "Russians" were shown.
    2. +3
      10 May 2013 20: 16
      Yes, the movie about the delivery of vodka to the front made me very angry. We mixed vodka with the film "The Dawns Here Are Quiet", it turned out to be complete crap. And the film was probably made as part of a government order. Who claims such scripts, they are not ashamed?
      1. 0
        14 May 2013 23: 10
        Also please note. In all almost new film masterpieces about the war, the protagonists either served time or were unjustly affected by the regime. Take the same "Fighters" or "Train". And yet, all political workers are necessarily scoundrels. Directly a kind of charge of stamps. In general, once again I reviewed "Only old men go to battle" and got real pleasure.
  7. +13
    10 May 2013 15: 50
    YOU, WHO'S CLOSE AND FAMILY HAVE PASSED THROUGH THE STALIN CAMPS, YOU HAVE LIBERATED WITH OSVENTSIM, BUCHENVALD AND DAHAU ...
    Yes, combining the two parts of this phrase into one is not entirely beautiful, or rather, not at all beautiful. What is this, stupidity or malice? My grandfather is a front-line soldier, and his brother was shot in 37, after the war he was rehabilitated. But even in a nightmare I can’t imagine what he would say.
    1. andrre122
      +2
      10 May 2013 16: 33
      There is no stupidity in such things.
  8. Rrv
    Rrv
    +4
    10 May 2013 15: 57
    ------------------------
    1. Rrv
      Rrv
      0
      10 May 2013 15: 58
      =============================
      1. +3
        10 May 2013 16: 06
        You at least decipher what you posted here and what you wanted to say.
    2. djon3volta
      -3
      10 May 2013 16: 04
      RRV, see here.
      1. Rrv
        Rrv
        +5
        10 May 2013 16: 52
        Quote: Vladimirets
        You at least decipher what you posted here and what you wanted to say.


        What is there to decipher? Are hundreds of millions announced? No. That’s why the hell to all kinds of memorials about these hundreds of millions of 3.14 z dit.



        Quote: djon3volta
        RRV, see here.


        Should I be scared of an ice pick? belay

        laughing
        1. 0
          10 May 2013 19: 48
          During the war, my uncle was a teacher at the Tomsk Artillery School. During the lecture, he blurted out that some German cannon was “very good in battle” (he himself was a combatant and ended up in the school after being wounded), so the next day he was taken away and the three CCA gave him 20 years! Some of the cadets were "vigilant"! - WELCOME TO THE GULAG!
          1. Rrv
            Rrv
            +1
            10 May 2013 20: 06
            Quote: sergeschern
            WELCOME TO THE GULAG!


            It may well be - a similar statement could be regarded as an undermining of morale. I don’t presume to argue now how stupid or not, but this sentence is absolutely legal.
            On the other hand, very good reasons are needed to send a professional officer to the camp.

            PS My neighbor’s father spent almost the entire war in captivity. Then he shook that they would come for him. So he died in the mid-80s without waiting.
          2. alexandr00070
            +1
            11 May 2013 01: 16
            Quote: sergeschern
            Some of the cadets were "vigilant"! - WELCOME TO THE GULAG!

            You think there are few such vigilant cadets nearby
          3. +1
            11 May 2013 07: 56
            So these "vigilant cadets" are mainly to blame for those events.
            A relative of our neighbor, whom he treated to dinner, also said that it seemed to him that there was more freedom in the West. The neighbor "thanked" for the dinner, and the relative was imprisoned for 10 years. I have no doubt that these "cleaners" also embellished, so that FOR SURE ... But he never said that he was "planted" by Stalin! He with a "kind" word REMEMBERED to death a neighbor, a bastard. So do not blame everything on Stalin, look around you, with WHOM would you "NOT GO ATTACK" ?!
  9. andrre122
    +15
    10 May 2013 16: 01
    "YOU, WHOSE KINDLES AND RELATIVES WENT THROUGH THE STALIN'S CAMP, YOU LIBERATED AUSVENTZIM, BUCHENWALD AND DAHAU ..."
    Specifically, they spat in the soul and spoiled the whole mood.
    Why all this pathos, then to spoil.
    That’s how they spoiled the whole day. On Russia 1 and Russia 24 they talked about the heroic Ingush people who fell victim to Stalin’s mistakes. About powerless collective farmers and post-war hunger. And as a result, Soviet agriculture did not come to their senses until the collapse of the Union.
    But undeniably a moment of silence was the final chord of the insanity of power.
    On the one hand cheers victory. You must remember and be proud. Flawless licking of veterans. On the other hand, inadequate performances.
    The patient is more dead than alive.
  10. +9
    10 May 2013 16: 08
    So traitors in power
  11. -5
    10 May 2013 16: 11
    the author has a Russian problem .. the image is sort of collective .. i.e. as it were, all are listed, then he participated in the war .. and no one wavered. and this bumblebee is looking for an excuse .. clings to the words .. well, it’s necessary to betray .. to drop it. to express a grain of doubt ..
    1. alexandr00070
      +3
      11 May 2013 01: 35
      Quote: arkgrz
      the author has a Russian problem .. the image is sort of collective .. i.e. as it were, all are listed, then he participated in the war .. and no one wavered. and this bumblebee is looking for an excuse .. clings to the words .. well, it’s necessary to betray .. to drop it. to express a grain of doubt ..

      in my opinion you have a problem not only with Russian, but also with an understanding of the problem itself, to read out the exploits of soldiers along with repressions (the main peak of which occurred in 37-39 years, then the repressions were not so big and mainly in the case, well, this if you also read relevant literature or a documentary filmets), and so the repression carried out during the war (no matter how cruel it looked - in many ways just brought Victory closer, there are saboteurs and traitors and cowards, and nations (small) waiting the arrival of the Germans, etc.) So the phrase can only be called a provocation, so what a spit, then spit ............ just the media got too big and lost in reality. By the way, I present the movie with 8.35 minutes interesting info on repressions, whitewashing Stalin
  12. shpuntik
    +5
    10 May 2013 16: 15
    Anna Akhmatova, in turn, received Pasternak's poem "Scouts" and the verse "Downstream". Moreover, the “Scouts” went to her in a monstrous form - here the editor-home-made drastically pulled out. He so smartly jumped half of the verses, trying to shove the poem into one page, that the plot began to look like a monstrous mishmash, and the author a graphomaniac, unable to think coherently:
    piotr534 Today, 15:50 PM
    What is this, stupidity or malice?

    Rather, the second, not everyone left for the hill.
    Quote: "My humanitarian mother is a great connoisseur of poetry and a connoisseur of the old architecture of Moscow
    http://lleo.me/dnevnik/2013/05/04.html
  13. +19
    10 May 2013 16: 19
    Not only on our 9th TV didn’t look at its best ... remember Cosmonautics Day ... except that there was nothing on the screens in the news releases ... The STAR TV channel (which their empty Majesty Mityai wants to close, they say no one is watching!) ... And the selection of films for these days of the Great Victory Day is set for viewing in the main film where the Russian people only suffer ... where they smash us to pieces ... And where is the positive? This is one side of the issue.
    Second - According to the Charter, if one soldier gives military honor to another, then the other (chief) must answer .... Soldiers passing in the front line give military honor to their higher commanders! Or am I mistaken after 27 years of service, having risen to several big stars, and 23 years of retirement coexistence? I don’t think so! Therefore, this should be called in our own words - ignorance and malicious not fulfilling our statutory duties on the part of our top military commanders, simply should not even be discussed. This is our shame and nonsense!
    1. +2
      10 May 2013 17: 06
      Quote: KazaK Bo
      one soldier salutes another military honor

      In the Russian army, military honor is no longer given!

      CHARTER OF THE INTERNAL SERVICE:

      War greeting

      43. The military salutation is the embodiment of the friendly unity of the military, a testament of mutual respect and a manifestation of a common culture. When meeting (overtaking), all military personnel are obliged to greet each other, strictly observing the rules established by the Combat Charter of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Subordinates and juniors in military rank are the first to greet, and in an equal position the first is greeted by one who considers himself to be more polite and well-mannered.

      44. Military personnel are also required to welcome:
      - the tomb of the Unknown Soldier;
      ...
    2. ekama1
      +5
      10 May 2013 18: 20
      And on STS cartoons with moronic animation the second day
      1. +3
        10 May 2013 19: 58
        All is correct. No honor or conscience. Why change the charters for decades?
  14. -14
    10 May 2013 16: 26
    Before discussing this article, listen to the text again during a moment of silence. The author of this article is a provocateur. There are no such words there! Therefore, friends do not believe liars. Nobody can disgrace Russia! Moreover, an author with an Israeli surname ...
    1. andrre122
      +3
      10 May 2013 16: 38
      Everything is there. You yourself are a provocateur. And not smart.
      1. -8
        10 May 2013 16: 42
        You found such words in the text during a moment of silence, no! And then what are you talking about?
        1. +6
          10 May 2013 18: 16
          There were these words. Personally, I heard it myself. That is exactly what happened.
        2. +1
          10 May 2013 22: 47
          100% confirm
    2. alexandr00070
      +1
      11 May 2013 02: 08
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Before discussing this article, listen to the text again during a moment of silence. The author of this article is a provocateur. There are no such words there! Therefore, friends do not believe liars. Nobody can disgrace Russia! Especially an author with an Israeli surname ..

      before writing yourself listen at 3,10 minutes, and in comments there is a video for 2009, this phrase is there too, so we have been hammered into it for a long time, and the corrupt media are shaming us
  15. +6
    10 May 2013 16: 33
    Those people who had to visit the Stalinist camps, and with the outbreak of the war were released were not embittered by the authorities and did not follow Vlasov, but went to fight for their homeland, they deserve even more respect. And Hitler had to remember that. the people in the Soviet Union tormented by these repressions will take a turn to serve him, but he was mistaken, the people stood in a different line.
  16. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. djon3volta
      -8
      10 May 2013 17: 24
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Provocateur, threw the evil seed.

      I also wanted to write about this in detail and relishly that NO ONE noticed, and one he (the author) noticed something somewhere. introduce these negative stuffing about the country, the president, the government, the church, and so on. This is done on purpose, and most importantly, who supports provocateurs also understands why all this is being done.
      thank God that out of 143 million people, about 60 million visit the Internet, but all sorts of sites are read by thousands, and only hundreds of people visit individual sites. They can’t capture television (swamp, Trotskyites, liberoids), thank God for the millionth audience, unlike a couple of hundred hamsters that scurry around on a Runet 24 hours a day, with all sorts of corruption, explosions, beggars, and all kinds of negative nonsense. It’s worthlessly gone by May 6, they didn’t overthrow Putin)))
      1. 0
        10 May 2013 19: 54
        Himself not tired of ass licking power, posing as an idiot?
        1. djon3volta
          -4
          10 May 2013 20: 21
          Quote: sergeschern
          I’m not tired of myself

          Zdarova Leonid Ilyich hi
          well, whoever should confront you, opponents of the government. do you also do it the same way yourself. isn’t it? would put you all in a heap, in real life would look at us who you are and what you are, although I can roughly imagine how you look even, all those who are against.
          I remembered, one here somehow spread his photo, the topwar sits at the computer site, the physiognomy is frowning, some kind of evil))) I thought that some people looked like that)))
          1. +4
            10 May 2013 22: 49
            Yes, here I am. I hope that even the granddaughter will see some changes in our homeland!
            1. +1
              10 May 2013 22: 51
              Quote: sergeschern
              Yes, here I am. I hope that at least a granddaughter


              granddaughter plus and God grant her health good
  17. Genady1976
    +2
    10 May 2013 16: 38
    This minute must be shown
  18. +8
    10 May 2013 16: 44
    Criminals convicted by the people's court for espionage, betrayal, theft, desertion, murders, etc., went through forced labor camps (which suddenly made them Stalinist), they had nothing to do with Victory, and only a dirty bastard could say that scoundrel.
  19. +8
    10 May 2013 16: 45
    "YOU, Whose relatives and friends walked through the Stalinist camps, you liberated Auschwitz, Buchenwald, and Dahau, this phrase is, by and large, another ideological sabotage. There is no accident, everything is done purposefully. Just like a criminal Stalinist regime. , like German fascism, etc. We must understand that the so-called Russian television has not been such for a very long time. Almost absolutely all central media since the 90s have been subordinate to the US State Department. Just like NGOs, they receive billions of dollars, and conduct subversive work against their people. The media are now the main fulcrum of the Americans. Without them, the entire colony management system will collapse. Therefore, the primary task is to withdraw the media from external control.
    1. -6
      10 May 2013 16: 48
      Stop grinding your tongue, find a better job
      1. +4
        10 May 2013 17: 06
        ivanych47, We should have listened better. not fictions push now
    2. andrre122
      +5
      10 May 2013 17: 01
      "It is necessary to understand that the so-called Russian television has not been such for a very long time. Almost absolutely all central media have been subordinate to the US State Department since the 90s. Just like NGOs, they receive billions of dollars and conduct subversive work against their people."
      Right.
      1. Merchant
        -6
        10 May 2013 17: 09
        DO YOU DO NOT OURSELVES FROM THESE NCOs?
        1. +2
          10 May 2013 19: 43
          Quote: Merchant
          DO YOU DO NOT OURSELVES FROM THESE NCOs?

          And you?
    3. +3
      10 May 2013 20: 04
      Just like little children: like this, does the State Department directly control the media? Without intermediaries? With the connivance of the UK, the prosecutor's office, and the "guarantor" of the constitution? It is much easier to explain this in one word - tied!
  20. +10
    10 May 2013 16: 46
    Quote: RRV
    ----------------------

    I would also add Jews to the convicts and Cossacks who defeated the Germans. In every film there is always a heroic Jew and "evil" Russians who scoff at him by his family. By the way, many veterans now openly say that in current films and the media there is an excessive heroization of the participation of "children of Israel" in the Great Patriotic War. But if you read the book of Shumilin A.I. "Vanka-rotny", and other front-line authors, everything looks completely different.
    And, as one of my Odessa comrades says - And what about the names of the scriptwriters, directors and the leadership of our television channels, did you expect something else?
  21. The comment was deleted.
    1. Rrv
      Rrv
      +5
      10 May 2013 17: 21
      Quote: Leshy 28
      I would also add to the wrecked Germans of the convicts and Cossacks of the Jews.


      There is such a thing.




      Quote: Leshy 28
      But if you read the book of Shumilin A.I. "Vanka-rotny", and other front-line authors, everything looks completely different.


      To put it mildly ... laughing
  22. +11
    10 May 2013 16: 52
    Yes, this moment has hooked strongly! No chance! The official line of power - it will soon apologize to the West for the very fact of the existence of Russians.
    The reaction is very interesting if power falls to it! ..
    1. andrre122
      +6
      10 May 2013 17: 12
      "She will soon apologize to the West for the very existence of the Russians."
      Well said.
    2. -9
      10 May 2013 17: 14
      You look like your helicopter
    3. 0
      10 May 2013 20: 17
      Quote: erased
      she will soon apologize to the West for the very fact of the existence of the Russians.

      In fact, one must apologize to everyone and for everything once (let all the "victims" draw up a list), after which all claims and accusations against the USSR and Russia should be considered unfounded. Impose sanctions against those who do not agree with this.
  23. +1
    10 May 2013 17: 00
    You do not like the Western slurp that Russia is slowly rising from its knees. here and bark. spit saliva ..
  24. +9
    10 May 2013 17: 03
    "YOU, WHOSE CLOSE AND RELATIVES WENT THROUGH STALIN'S CAMP" (if it really sounded on TV).

    I also think that this is not a topic. Does the speaker talk about the winners? So talk about them! Is there really nothing to say for 4 years of war? So remember all this ...

    If you want to talk about the victims of Stalinism, this is not appropriate here. Not at this event. This is a separate topic!
  25. Alexsanderr
    -9
    10 May 2013 17: 04
    It seems that the author of the article is sick!
    1. +11
      10 May 2013 17: 07
      The one who wrote the text before the moment of silence is sick.
    2. +1
      11 May 2013 20: 23
      Quote: Alexssanderr
      It seems that the author of the article is sick!
      - he’s a hysteric, and he even caught the bullshit how many fair men)))
      Well, now shout together: meeeeeeeeee)
  26. +3
    10 May 2013 17: 10
    Remember! Centuries later, in a year, remember!
    For those who will never come again, remember!
    Do not Cry! In the throat, keep moaning, bitter groans.
    In memory of the fallen, be worthy! Always worthy!
    Bread and song, a dream and poetry, a spacious life!
    Every second, every breath, be worthy!
    People! While hearts are beating, remember!
    At what price is happiness won - please remember!
    Sending your song in flight - remember!
    For those who will never sing, remember!
    Tell your children about them to remember!
    Tell the children of the children about them, so they will remember it too!
    At all times of the Immortal Earth - remember!
    Leading ships to the twinkling stars - remember the dead!
    Meet the tremulous spring, people of the Earth!
    Kill the war, curse the war, people of the earth!
    Carry your dream through the years and fill your life! ...
    But about those who will never come again - conjure - remember!
    Robert Christmas.
  27. diesel
    +10
    10 May 2013 17: 19
    Anyway, JV Stalin is the greatest statesman in the history of Russia - Russia. No attempt to discredit the Soviet past will lead to good. There is something to compare. A camp was created by Leib Bornstein, if anyone forgot.
  28. +8
    10 May 2013 17: 25
    I don’t understand at all why Stalin was a “bloody tyrant” when all such enlightened Europe killed hundreds of millions of people around the world. Or does it mean that those who died in European colonies around the world do not count, and not people lived there?
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. +21
    10 May 2013 17: 29
    Patients are all those who do not understand shame .. this insert ..
    "Relatives and friends who went through the Stalinist concentration camps .." - and what is so pretentious?
    Well let's continue ... just hold on ...
    "Those who crap before going to the front, those who crap before the words - Halt, Tsuryuk .."
    "Those who jerked off to the card ....
    "Those who shot their friend in the forehead at the request of the Bendera ...
    "All our women who went to bed with the Fritzes, just to save their children from starvation ..
    "All of our hundreds, dozens ... brutally raped - girls parachutists ..
    "Everyone who was not burned in Khatyn ... and ... other camps ...
    ...
    What?
    The concept of LANGUAGE has disappeared completely?
    And here - concentration camps? And what about the camps?
    ...
    Terrible is sabotage work. According to the language. By outlook.
    I’ll name who is to blame without thinking for a minute - Fursenko, Curriculum Preparation Committees. The current ... - Minister of Education.
    You look - through the word error. The construction of speech is generally nothing.
    Is this government policy?
    And, like a nail in the lid of the coffin - millions of forced slaves who brought freedom to the world.
    Explain - why - SO?
    I’ll explain ... I don’t have to think too much.
    In the Stalinist camps sat UZNIKI.
    From relatives - they brought freedom to Europe. Why?
    Wanting to quickly reunite with the light of democracy, pid ... oh, tolerance, freedom, etc. - by American troops. English knights.
    ...
    These are the thoughts of those who oversaw the writing of the Appeal. This is their way of thinking.
    ...
    What are we doing here?
    Only "klava" tarakhtim?
    A disgrace.
    1. +3
      11 May 2013 04: 01
      Igarr, you're 100% right - Wanting to quickly reunite with the light of democracy !!!

      "They" are still not enough, they slandered those who made it possible for all of us to live, robbed their grandchildren, and now make their great-grandchildren moral monsters ...
    2. -1
      11 May 2013 20: 32
      Quote: Igarr
      Patients are all those who do not understand shame .. this insert ..
      - You are tormenting and slandering people, which despite it defended their homeland and jerking on a card comparing? Are you in opposition in general vegetables? Surely sick, by golly. As the author of the scammers made you (either stupid he, or a provocateur) feel the shame you are friendly and feel. Come on, go out to the swamp and do everything amicably, from the humiliation and insult that the "bloody regime" made you feel. laughing ))))))))))))))
  31. vladsolo56
    +15
    10 May 2013 17: 29
    I agree that someone is trying to level off with just one phrase, the USSR and Nazi Germany, hinting that there were camps both there and there. Very smart and professional. And I’m absolutely sure not by chance. I fully support the author.
    1. +4
      10 May 2013 17: 36
      Quote: vladsolo56
      announced someone is trying to level the USSR and Nazi Germany with just one phrase, hinting that there were camps there and there.
      Who is who? Who is our main liberal? The answer is Medvedev. Here it is worth looking ...
      1. Rrv
        Rrv
        +1
        10 May 2013 18: 33
        Quote: svp67
        Who is our main liberal? The answer is Medvedev.


        You do not see the forest trees?
        1. 0
          10 May 2013 18: 38
          Quote: RRV
          Quote: svp67
          Who is our main liberal? The answer is Medvedev.


          You do not see the forest trees?
          So tell me, who do you think is that forest? I expressed my opinion ...
          1. Rrv
            Rrv
            +1
            10 May 2013 19: 08
            Quote: svp67
            So tell me, who do you think is that forest?
            1. +3
              10 May 2013 19: 28
              Well, everyone has their own opinion. For me, GDP is not interested in this, it’s trying to take as much as possible from the USSR ...
              1. Rrv
                Rrv
                0
                10 May 2013 19: 36
                Quote: svp67
                on the contrary, he is trying to take as much as possible from the USSR ...


                If we were to speak specifically about the nomenclature of the late USSR, then I would unconditionally agree with you.
    2. Rrv
      Rrv
      +15
      10 May 2013 17: 55
      Stalin is the personification of equality, order, Victory and the communist idea of ​​JUSTICE.

      Therefore, they beat Stalin.
  32. +6
    10 May 2013 17: 36
    This is, to put it mildly, strange for a federal television channel, this is May 9th, the Great Victory Day, and not a discussion of how many people went through the camps ...
    1. 0
      16 May 2013 20: 17
      In my opinion, nothing strange. People are systematically hammered into a certain orientation: "VICTORY is the USSR, the USSR is Stalin, Stalin is the camps." Another 15 years will pass, and a new generation of our citizens will be convinced that in the Soviet Union everyone was in Stalin's camps, and on May 8 (eighth), together with all democratic Europe, I will thank the United States for heroically saving us from the brown plague. To be honest, I would not like to live to see this ...
  33. +6
    10 May 2013 17: 38
    And after all, someone pointed out the minuses - that means the site is gaining popularity and the POWER OF THE PROPERTY (U. RODY) are forced to blow their chases here in order to create the impression that MUCH are against what was expressed in the article ... It is gratifying - well done site creators and its participants .. .
  34. 0
    10 May 2013 17: 42
    Neue Zürcher Zeitung
    Year of Putin's presidency: spending alone is not reform
    10 May 2013 city
    The fact that Putin’s reformist rhetoric boils down to increased spending is a typical case. He does not want a painful economic recovery. But it is doubtful that active government intervention will lay the foundation for welfare.

    Les Echos
    Putin: one year in the Kremlin, the economy is stalled


    The newspaper
    The recession looms over King Putin
    10 May 2013 city
    Victory Day allowed Putin to take a little time with domestic problems. Government actions seem too slow and clumsy for the era of global economy. Surkov could be the first victim of a clash between Putin and the government.

    Paul Johnson | Forbes

    Vladimir Putin is the most unpleasant person in the world.

    Gentlemen, opponents of Putin! Do not you think that your tone and your statements are too similar to statements by no means friends of Russia? Whose water mill is it on?
    1. Rrv
      Rrv
      0
      10 May 2013 18: 41
      Quote: rexby63
      Gentlemen, opponents of Putin! Do not you think that your tone and your statements are too similar to statements by no means friends of Russia?


      Don't you think that the "non-friends of Russia" are trying too hard to prove that they are not friends, and thereby push the people "into the arms" of Mr. Putin?

      Judging by cases is necessary, not by declarations.
      1. 0
        10 May 2013 18: 47
        It is for business. And my opinion is that Putin is now one of the few who really works. And about "friends" - a certain Mrs. Alekseeva also doesn't like Putin, so I'll tell you so - EVERYONE who doesn't like this mossy bastard ... no, for me there will always be the best.
        1. Rrv
          Rrv
          +1
          10 May 2013 19: 32
          Quote: rexby63
          It is for business.


          Commercialization and degradation of education and medicine
          One of the lowest in the world levels of minimum wages, which is also 2.5 thousand below the official subsistence level
          The world's lowest taxes on large business income and the highest on wage earners
          Management Responsibility on the Principle - The Higher the Less
          WTO accession, capable of killing production, including the defense industry
          Pushing the institute of juvenile justice destroying the institution of the family

          You want to say that all of the above cases suit you? If so, then you, consciously or not, are a loyal associate of Mrs. Alekseeva.
          1. djon3volta
            -3
            10 May 2013 20: 30
            Quote: RRV
            You want to say that all of the above cases suit you?

            say, you are not from the sect ESSENCE OF TIME Kurginyan? something like your pictures, komenty. Or are you from the Communist Party? Who do you support? Who is the best politician for you, tell me?
            1. Rrv
              Rrv
              0
              10 May 2013 21: 23
              No, Johnny is not this or that. By the way, you are opposing these guys in vain - and Ku and Sue both work on Pu, but like Not with Na.

              In any case, the traitor Zyu is preferable to me than the traitor Pu.

              And I already mentioned surnames: Boldyrev, Mukhin, muddy comrade-Delyagin, Katasonov, Khazin, Glazyev, Kvachkov.

              Any surname will suit me if the Authority personified in it is forced to fulfill the order of the majority and be responsible for its actions. Yes
              1. 0
                11 May 2013 15: 15
                Boldyrev, Mukhin, muddy tovarisch-Delyagin, Katasonov, Khazin, Glazyev, Kvachkov.


                And what do they have in common? No, you really, the second Alekseeva - even the hell, but not Putin
          2. 0
            10 May 2013 21: 14
            I will answer with the words of Alekseeva herself: "Our current president, seeing that protest sentiments are growing in the country, that his rating is falling both in Russia and abroad, decided to overcome this with the only method that he can understand. He is a man brought up by the KGB who can act only from a position of strength, intimidating and deceiving. Now, one after another, completely insane laws are being issued, not just unconstitutional, but lying beyond the boundaries of law. Tightening the screws will not work, because the thread has worn out. It is impossible to enter the same water twice, return the USSR will not. "

            Do you really have a lot in common with her? So which of the two of us is her companion?
            1. Rrv
              Rrv
              -2
              10 May 2013 22: 46
              Alexander, do not engage in verbiage: Putin is not trying to restore the USSR - nationalization (revising the results of privatization), which would simultaneously increase the budget by 2 times, will not happen - he said, not me. wink

              You better answer me in your own words and this is what:
              According to the Constitution, Russia is a social state. The President is the guarantor of the Constitution. At the same time, in the 4th quarter of 2012, the cost of living for the able-bodied population is 7263 rubles, and the minimum wage - 4611 rubles.

              How can this be and how does this situation compare with the Constitution?
              1. +1
                11 May 2013 13: 53
                the minimum wage is 4611 rubles.


                If it's not a secret, who has such a salary? I stood at the labor exchange 2 years ago, they paid me 4900
                1. +1
                  12 May 2013 14: 16
                  I have already voiced these figures - I repeat: the cost of a dresser in the Krasnoyarsk Opera and Ballet Theater amounts to 7-8 thousand without prizes, with 2 thousand more prizes at full work schedule. Z \ n artist of the choir of the 10-th category 9800 with bonuses up to 14000. The minimum wage in the country is determined by the State Duma, the minimum wage in regions and territories is determined by the legislative assembly. For example, in the Krasnoyarsk Territory, it is slightly larger than the federal figure 5700 if I am not mistaken. You can live on this money only if you do not pay for a communal apartment. Which increase twice a year and s \ n does not grow.
              2. 0
                11 May 2013 15: 33
                Section 7. The Russian Federation is a social state whose policy is aimed at creating conditions ensuring a decent life and free human development.
                To "create", dear opponent X, not to maintain. Or have our fellow citizens started to live worse over the past 13 years? Or in the 90s there was no shooting in the streets, and the children were overeating with sweets? Adults could choose a job to their liking, and young girls completely studied at prestigious universities and did not stand on the panel? Although you are right - we began to live worse, we forgot what "Bad" is. But again I will allow myself to engage in "verbiage" and ask you: "Is Putin also to blame for the fact that we all became fat, gobbled up shit? Are we still" white and fluffy "ourselves?
                1. Rrv
                  Rrv
                  0
                  12 May 2013 10: 58
                  Quote: rexby63
                  If it's not a secret, who has such a salary? I stood at the labor exchange 2 years ago, they paid me 4900


                  Apparently in Moscow? And were you interested in the minimal salary in the country?


                  Quote: rexby63
                  Article 7 ... To "create", not to maintain ... etc.


                  You see, what are you talking about? You can also tell that these conditions can be created indefinitely (and that it will be quite legal), as well as compare the number of mobile phones and Internet users in the 50s of the 20th century with the 2000s of the 21st ...

                  Once again: 2012. The official minimum salary in the country is 4611 rubles. The official living wage for the able-bodied population in the country in the 1st quarter is 6827 rubles, in the 4th quarter - 7263 rubles.

                  Explain - in what way does this fact comply with the Constitution of the Russian Federation - do you risk it?
                  1. 0
                    12 May 2013 13: 44
                    "Apparently" in Kostroma. And Kostroma is one of the poorest regions. He worked in Kirov, and in Komi, and in Karelia, and in Ivanovo he was on a business trip. Our Kostroma is still a wage hole.

                    Now about the violation of the Constitution of the Russian Federation - I thought for a long time what you mean, until I casually glanced at Wikipedia. V-o-o-o-t where the dog rummaged (purely idiomatic). If you can improve your encyclopedic knowledge by reading this "glorious" resource "you can achieve a lot. Well, okay, I would like to draw your attention to the following - this Wikipedia refers to social countries:" Among modern examples of the realization of the ideal of a social state, the countries of the Scandinavian Peninsula are usually cited ( that is, the "Swedish model"), Finland, the Netherlands, Canada, Switzerland, Germany, Belgium, and sometimes the UK, France, Austria, New Zealand, Australia, USA, Italy, Greece, Portugal, Japan, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, the countries of the Persian Gulf, Libya and other countries. " Wordless, is not it? And my opinion - a social state - is where every hour they try to improve the lives of their citizens. How it comes out, crookedly or bluntly, is another matter.
                    1. Rrv
                      Rrv
                      0
                      12 May 2013 14: 52
                      What side you remembered pedivicia is not clear to me.

                      "Without words, isn't it?" - It is also unclear: all kinds of inadequacies, progressing in the world since the 80s, are in no way connected with the social system.

                      "And my opinion is that the welfare state is where they try to improve the lives of their citizens hourly." - I completely agree, but it is precisely by "how it comes out" that it is quite possible to judge how "they try"
                      I do not come up with numbers - these are legislatively fixed minimum wages and living wages in the country for the specified period.
                      The question arises - how much does a person really need, if at a minimum.
                      Since it is necessary to take into account the maximum population, as a guideline I take a 25-year-old working hypersthenic man with a daily intake of 4000 calories, not associated with excessive physical activity.
                      Minimum spending on COMPLETE nutrition at the current price level will average 12000 rubles.
                      Clothing, transport, recovery from work, rent (not buying an apartment), etc. also around 12000 minimum.
                      Thus we get a REAL cost of living for a working person.
                      But taking into account the demographic policy - at least 2 children in the family (and the child consumes half of adult consumption) - we add another 12000 to the cost of living and get the average-minimum wage for the country in the amount of 36000 rubles - this is what should be.

                      Is such a min s / n possible? The example of other countries shows that the possible minimum tax-free wage is 50% of GDP per capita (we have 12%). That is, in 2012, the proper level of the minimum wage for the SOCIAL state of the Russian Federation is about 18450 rubles.
                      If we eliminate the 50% increase in prices for tariffs, then the purchasing power of these 18 thousand will increase to at least 25-30 thousand.

                      You claim that the authorities are trying to do something like that?
                      1. 0
                        12 May 2013 15: 00
                        I see. At our enterprise, salaries are no longer delayed. They have already got rid of the gray salary. And if we, the workers, are not silent, then they raise us. For example, compared with last year, they raised by 10%. Of course a little, but with a black sheep, as they say. There is one more question, here you are all about wages - and how can the state oblige an entrepreneur to raise his salary, legislatively? Well, you yourself understand that this is a double-edged sword.
                      2. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        12 May 2013 15: 33
                        Quote: rexby63
                        For example, compared with last year, they raised by 10%.


                        Consumer inflation, the cause of which is primarily the increase in tariffs, has averaged 25% compared to last year - and so over the past 10 years.


                        Of course a little, but with a black sheep, as they say


                        This is the psychology of a slave: activities in any field should take place in accordance with the law, and legislation should be drawn up in the interests of the majority, and not as it is now.


                        how will the state be able to oblige an entrepreneur to raise salaries - legislatively? Well, you yourself understand that this is a double-edged sword.


                        That is, state ownership Power to sell off, forcing 100 million to give up alcohol after 23 hours is also not a problem, but what about the compliance of entrepreneurial activity with the Basic Law, is it horror, horror, is that impossible? )))
                        Have you not noticed yet that the current Power is turning the country into a state-perverted perversity?
                      3. 0
                        12 May 2013 17: 26
                        And you do not engage in demagogy, but try to predict what will happen if the state raises the minimum wage to 15000 rubles
                      4. +1
                        12 May 2013 15: 59
                        Quote: RRV
                        Minimum spending on COMPLETE nutrition at the current price level will average 12000 rubles.

                        You have overstated requirements. For 12000 rubles a month, a large family will eat hearty. Stop eating all kinds of rubbish (expensive delicacies), drink all kinds of garbage (alcohol, energy, etc.). Simple dishes of potatoes, Russian borsch or cabbage soup, cereals without frills, and you will see how much you have left from 12000 rubles.
                        Stop smoking, stop throwing from 3 to 5 thousand rubles a month to destroy your own body. And then, in retirement, you will demand money from the state for the treatment of the lungs and stomach. But the state is not to blame for the fact that you smoked and thumped, I would have left such people to die without medical help. (You are not personally you, but for example)
                      5. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        12 May 2013 16: 35
                        Quote: Setrac
                        You have overstated requirements.


                        I'm talking about good nutrition:
                        35% - meat, fish, poultry, eggs.
                        35% - vegetables (excluding potatoes) and fruits.
                        The rest is cereals, pasta, potatoes (not a very useful product), etc.
                        Relate the above to 4000 calories per day and modern prices and you will get a figure in the region of 12000.

                        But the state is not guilty that you smoked and thumped,


                        But this is how to say it: 15 years of aggressive advertising, loss of meanings, putting the majority of the population on the brink of survival, hopelessness from the realization that you work at least 3 rates, and you can’t take your family to the sea, the minimum salary that is lower than the official subsistence level minimum, etc.

                        Is all of the above not the affairs of the state, or Power 7
                      6. 0
                        12 May 2013 17: 32
                        minimum wage, which is lower than the official cost of living, etc.


                        You didn’t answer my question, where did you meet the exotic salary of less than 4600 rubles, but you’re already "soaring" the brains of the next opponent
                      7. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        12 May 2013 18: 53
                        You are currently engaged in demagogy.

                        To raise the minimum wage, changes in taxation and price regulation systems are needed. Ideally, the nationalization of the Soviet heritage is needed - it will give a budget increase of 2 times.
                        Doing it - raising the minimum wage to 18 thousand is not a problem, moreover: the state was obliged to do this.


                        Read carefully, I repeat again: in 2012, the minimum wage in the Russian Federation amounted to 4611 rubles minus 13% of income tax.
                        At the same time, the established living wage for the working population: at the beginning of the year - 6827 rubles, at the end of the year - 7263 rubles.

                        That is, the established minimum wage at the end of the year is not less than 2650 rubles BELOW the established LIVING MINIMUM.

                        Now it is clear? Or do you tell me your address and demand to bring to you a person with a documented salary of 5 thousand?
                      8. 0
                        12 May 2013 20: 08
                        To raise the minimum wage, changes in taxation and price regulation systems are needed. Ideally, the nationalization of the Soviet heritage is needed - it will give a budget increase of 2 times.


                        These are nothing more than general phrases suitable for a rally on Bolotnaya. Suppose I'm interested, put me on the shelves of the mechanism of nationalization in a country similar to Russia. It seems to me similar to the Great October Socialist Revolution, and you, respectively, with one notorious priest
                      9. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        12 May 2013 21: 07
                        Quote: rexby63
                        These are nothing more than common phrases.


                        Do you propose to lay out an economic program for 10 years in the format of a comment?

                        The issue of nationalization is resolved through the Accounts Chamber and the prosecutor's office - or do you doubt that the so-called privatization was de facto fraud and theft on an especially large scale? Venezuela is an example of nationalization; such issues are completely solvable (of course, if they want to solve them).


                        Quote: rexby63
                        It seems to me similar to the Great October Socialist Revolution, and you, respectively, with one notorious priest


                        You already decide what year you are comparing - with the 17th or 5th. What confuses you in the Revolution, and when did I call you to the rally?
                      10. 0
                        12 May 2013 21: 30
                        or do you doubt that the so-called privatization was de facto fraud and theft on an especially large scale?


                        I have no doubt, but the laws of that time allowed fraud in such volumes. And comparing Russia with Venezuela is not quite, let's say, reasonable

                        You already decide what year you are comparing


                        Do you think that Mr. Gapon is alone in the "glorious" galaxy of provocateurs? And his endeavors stopped on March 28.03.1906, XNUMX?
                      11. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        12 May 2013 22: 32
                        The laws of the time provided an opportunity for fraud, but did not make fraud legal. Nationalization is possible - a referendum is enough for this.

                        Then - we are not talking now about the details of this action, we are talking about social guarantees, specifically - about the necessary level of the minimum wage and that the current minimum wage does not correspond not only to the Constitution, but also to common sense.

                        Is it possible to live (not survive) at the current 5205 minus 13%? No.
                        Can the minimum wage be below the subsistence level? No.
                        Perhaps an increase in the minimum wage? Yes, and 4.5 times.

                        The fact that the Authority has not done this over the past decade suggests that the Authority is criminal.

                        Here's another example: when a flat scale was introduced, this was explained by the fact that tax collection, that is, the budget, would increase in this way. Do you know what happened in practice? In fact, the percentage of the budget to GDP has not increased, but decreased. That is, in essence, a flat scale made it possible for big capital to do what he wanted - to pay less, and this was compensated by the additional burden on wage earners.
                      12. 0
                        13 May 2013 05: 29
                        Nationalization is possible - a referendum is enough for this.


                        Well, they held a referendum, 90% voted in favor, the actions of the remaining 10?

                        Is it possible to live (not survive) at the current 5205 minus 13%?


                        Once again, in Russian - people of what professions, social groups, in which regions live on a salary of 5205 minus 13%? Do not answer - do not write anymore. The laurels of the revolutionary do not give rest - learn to separate economic slogans from political ones. To you, the opposition, smart people have figured everything out, put it on the shelves (V.I. Lenin PSS, cover to cover), and you just admire yourself like peacocks, and singing a note from you
                      13. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        13 May 2013 13: 47
                        actions of the remaining 10?



                        A lot of noise, someone is probably trying to sue, but they can’t do anything - any referendum decision is legal.
                        Remember Yukos, whose Rhodschild beneficiary? - If you want, you can do without a referendum.



                        Once again ... people of what professions, social groups ...


                        Ivan Petrovich Sidorov, Nizhny Novgorod Region, locksmith - should I bring it to your home and put the details on the table?

                        "Truck crane operator - Krasnogorsk MPMK OJSC - the main Krasnogorsk urban settlement - from 5500 - 26.04.13/XNUMX/XNUMX - Department of the State Service for Labor and Employment of the Bryansk Region". The proposed salary is below the subsistence level. www.rabota-bryanskobl.ru/home/seekrab/seekvac.aspx
                        Instead of denying the obvious, go to the website of the employment service of any region, take a walk through the pages.

                        Go to the website of the Federal State Statistics Service and see what percentage of the population, with the current unbelievably low subsistence level, continues to exist below the poverty line (from memory - 12.5%).

                        And stop lying to yourself.
                      14. 0
                        13 May 2013 17: 54
                        And, you hit labor exchanges (employment centers). Apparently you only know the business on the Internet. I stood on the stock exchange for almost three months, I went on vacancies so much that it seemed to overtake the Earth at the equator. He also bought slogans, as long as they didn’t say in one place - man, are you looking for a job or a salary? You will work normally, there will be a salary, you will not, and you will receive a minimum wage only one month, and then they will try to get rid of you. It convinced me. As a result, for the first year of work at an official salary of 7000 rubles, I earned up to 25000. Now for health workers — why does one nurse whine about a small salary and still don’t know where to find a vein, and the other earns more than a chief accountant in a medium-sized enterprise per month? The answer, I think, is already clear.
                        And as a result. Everything that I have explained to you above and everything that you have answered me over the past two days about the salary is the economy and here you have to fight only with entrepreneurs. When the state takes their side, only then it is necessary to present claims to the state. Otherwise you, oppositionists, are jumping on the tops, pulling all sorts of idlers into the arena, passing them off as the working class, not realizing that the worker always has the very first enemy - his employer. The one who pays him a small salary. does not let go on vacation, does not read sick leave. And all these your slogans about the "party of crooks and thieves" are so abstract that sometimes you are amazed. You have been marking time with these appeals for the third year already, but what about the result? Zilch.
                      15. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        13 May 2013 18: 58
                        On the account "you are stomping" - this is not for me - you confused me with Bolotnaya Square.

                        How 7000 turned into 25000 and whether they were issued in accordance with the current legislation is also a question.

                        Do not forget about the salary-pension ratio.

                        About health workers: the basic rate (it is the minimum salary) of a doctor is 5–6 thousand, the rest is the cunningly built surcharges and combinations. In order to have 25-30 thousand per month, the doctor works for one and a half to two rates, that is, the load increases significantly. That at the same time the quality of diagnosis and treatment drops sharply - do you need to be reminded? And the fact that the norm is an eight-hour working day, that a person has to work in order to live, and not vice versa, what if on the contrary, then you can forget about demography and families, that a person wears out 2 times faster?

                        The state is already on the side of entrepreneurs: the minimum wage, which is below the subsistence level, is determined by the state.
                        The influx of Gaster, increasing the dumping of prices on the labor market and increasing unemployment - the state admits.
                        Gray salaries, reducing future pensions - the state admits with its inaction.
                        Enterprises that violate the Labor Code are given to the hands of entrepreneurs and continue to be given by the state.
                        Legislation according to which in case of violation of his rights to an employee is not sued is profitable - the state has created.
                        Changing the tax system in favor of entrepreneurs - made the state.

                        Alexander, at least stop lying to yourself.
                      16. 0
                        14 May 2013 20: 52
                        Well, about Bolotnaya, I think I was not very mistaken. And yet, what do you yourself work in?
                      17. 0
                        14 May 2013 22: 37
                        that a person must work in order to live


                        I do not quite understand (in my opinion it seems like conspiracy)

                        Gray salaries, reducing future pensions - the state admits with its inaction.


                        That you have already started talking. It is just more profitable for the state to collect more taxes. With a gray salary - can only be obtained from donkey ears.

                        The influx of Gaster, increasing the dumping of prices on the labor market and increasing unemployment - the state admits.

                        I agree, the state had a hand in this. However, you probably know why, only dissemble and limit yourself to general populist slogans.

                        Change in the tax system in favor of entrepreneurs


                        The opposite is heard from entrepreneurs.

                        You at least stop lying to yourself.


                        Is this your mantra?
                      18. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        15 May 2013 01: 24
                        Is that your style?


                        No. The fact is that I try to explain not with unsubstantiated statements, but with the help of verified numbers, and for this I have to spend a lot of time searching for information (now, for example, I try to find the budget size in the 90s by years, but there is no acceptable information). You, being unable to refute these figures, begin to replace concepts and reduce everything to the fact that doctors earn little because they work poorly (do not care that the rate is 5000 with a living wage of 7000), etc. This manner is understandable annoying.

                        I work in public catering, I have nothing to do with Marsh.

                        There is nothing wrong with consumerism in moderation - a person needs to have a tasty, sufficient and high-quality diet (scientifically substantiated), dress and use hygiene products in accordance with modern times (he will not get dirty in his bast shoes), have access to a high level of medical care, education and to recover properly after work (the 19th century, 75% of the population is illiterate, the average life expectancy of peasants is 31 years), to be able to raise, feed, raise children (living standards are scientifically based), etc. etc.
                        It is also worth noting that the growth of the economy of the loan interest, in which the country has been living since the 90s and the negative aspects of which I am trying to justify to you despite your resistance, is based precisely on consumerism.

                        The state, if you understand it as a people, is of course unnecessary gray salaries. If we understand the state as institutions of power and remember that the relatives of the overwhelming majority of high-ranking employees of these institutions “unexpectedly” are super businessmen, then you come to the conclusion that gray salaries “at least” do not interfere with it.

                        For migrants: there is such a thing as equilibrium price - including in the labor market. It is also written in the Basic Law that the Russian Federation is a social state - that is, a real minimum must be guaranteed, and a person must work without harming himself, without exposing his body to excessive wear and tear with excessive volume and duration of work, and at the same time be able to fully live ( all of the above is justified scientifically).
                        Since the "Planet Earth" state does not yet exist, the labor market of the Russian Federation is closed, and as long as there are citizens whose qualifications allow performing a certain job, foreign citizens in a social state should not apply for this job. In the event that citizens of the state do not fill vacancies, the employer attracts employees by increasing salaries (or in other ways) until all vacancies are filled (equilibrium price of labor) - this is one of the laws of modern liberal economics.
                        Instead of all of the above, the Authority opens the labor market for migrants, which leads to dumping of labor prices and an additional burden on the budget, since a large number of citizens have to pay benefits.
                        In addition, the situation is very alarming when the FMS speaks of from 3 to 5 million illegal immigrants, while Rosstat speaks of 4.4 million unemployed - almost identical figures.

                        The opposite is heard from small and medium-sized businesses, and big business is blissful, but crying. our tax scale is de facto regressive, much has been said about this.
                      19. 0
                        15 May 2013 17: 01
                        Quote: RRV
                        The situation is alarming when the FMS speaks of 3 to 5 million illegal immigrants, while the Federal State Statistics Service speaks of 4.4 million unemployed - almost identical figures.

                        At one time there was a saying _ I know three pseudoscience: Astrology, Palmistry, Statistics.
                        Well, the first two with their own efforts left this status, but the third ...
                        Recently it was announced that a substantial number of the working-age population in Russia is not considered to be working.
                        Catch a nuance?
                      20. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        15 May 2013 18: 18
                        Be careful, Vladimir - not trusting even official statistics, you run the risk of thinking in the near future that all the great achievements of the current Government, including the growth of the gross product, are nothing more than nonsense, and then come to the conclusion that the elections were rigged. wink


                        Quote: Cynic
                        Recently it was announced that a substantial number of the working-age population in Russia is not considered to be working.


                        You ask a pointless question.
                        Where did you hear, when, what numbers were named and by whom? What is your attitude to the topic you are raising?
                      21. 0
                        15 May 2013 19: 13
                        Quote: RRV
                        all the great achievements of the current Power,

                        For those living in Russia, the 90s and 10s are different, for foreigners not, but, excuse me, for metropolitan residents there is no identity either.
                        Quote: RRV
                        that the elections were rigged.

                        Yes, as it were, for me, to understand the truth of the elections, I did not need to look at the statistics, it was enough to go to my polling station.
                        By the way, I watched with pleasure there a poll of young LDPR activists who voted _ From the stream, people who voted for the LDPR were clearly selected! Not a single mistake in 15 minutes of observation! So Volfovich could reasonably file a complaint about falsification of the election results in this polling station based on this poll.
                        Quote: RRV
                        Where did you hear, when, what numbers were named and by whom?

                        Have you mixed anything up by chance? It seems you have not checked my homework!
                        They would honestly say that they are not familiar with this statement by a member of the government.
                        Summarizing _ Sorry Rrv but you soar in some spaces, real only for you.
                        How there is an eternally living classic wrote
                        “The circle of these revolutionaries is narrow. They are terribly far from the people ... ".
                        Used: ironically about the closed, far from the main population of the country community (the ruling class, officials, bohemians, etc.).
                        Underline whatever applicable .
                        bully
                      22. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        15 May 2013 20: 09
                        Yes, the 90s and 10s are certainly different - just like the 40s from the mid-50s.
                        Only there is a moment: the human losses of the 40s are comparable to the losses of the 90s, but the material losses of the 90s are many times less than the losses of the 40s. Moreover, the socio-economic growth of the 50s is several times higher than the growth of the zero, and the situation of the zero was much more favorable than the situation of the 50s. The goals of that period and the present also differ radically, and not in favor of the present.

                        Have you visited all the polling stations in the country? Note - you create YOUR statistics, and on the basis of episodic observation, while not rejecting the official statistics in the matter of elections. But you reject it on other issues - don't you think that this is a "somewhat" selective approach?

                        I accidentally mixed up nothing: maybe you again about the last century or another country - how do I know? laughing
                        In general, a person who does not speak specifically (who, where, when you did not specify) - either hides something, or lies, or instead of a healthy discussion "moves to the bazaar."

                        I emphasize: "... but their case was not lost ...". And precisely because it has not disappeared, we have the opportunity to celebrate May 9th.
                      23. 0
                        15 May 2013 21: 00
                        Quote: RRV
                        Have you been to all polling stations in the country?

                        This is neither a dream nor a spirit, but for some reason a strong association arose from this discussion with such a concept (for me) as scholasticism.
                        Quote: RRV
                        In general, a person who does not speak specifically

                        Lack of information, same information.
                        Is that familiar?
                        Your ignorance told me more about you than everything you said before.
                        In the circle of my personal communication, there are also people who completely ignore the official media, or rather, the official information in them.
                        It is interesting enough to listen to their interpretation of this information, refracted in their worldview.
                        Recently, I was puzzled by reliable information that Stalin simply simply bought himself the post of head of the USSR.
                        Did he rob banks? Robbed! I saved up some money and bought it.
                      24. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        15 May 2013 22: 13
                        Quote: Cynic

                        This is neither a dream nor a spirit, but for some reason a strong association arose from this discussion with such a concept (for me) as scholasticism.


                        I have a similar feeling - the conversation is pointless: you take one of my examples for clue, then take the topic aside, let the pseudo-philosophical fog with your quotes, do not even try to give any confirmation to your words and, most importantly, no specifics.
                        You are not a cynic, Vladimir, you are a balabol. )))


                        Your ignorance told me more about you than everything you said before.


                        I have already written about what your refusal to concretize told me about you.


                        Did he rob banks? Robbed! I saved up some money and bought it.


                        wassat

                        You should definitely choose your social circle more carefully. hi
                      25. 0
                        16 May 2013 16: 57
                        Quote: RRV
                        no specifics.

                        Sorry, but
                        Only birds sing for free

                        Quote: RRV
                        You are not zinc

                        As they say not deja vu.
                        In general, rephrasing the classic
                        Premonitions did not deceive me.
                      26. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        16 May 2013 18: 29
                        And again, no specifics. laughing

                        PS hi
                      27. 0
                        15 May 2013 17: 35
                        Reading your comments, I am swimming in jelly. I am not trying to substantiate and prove anything - you and I have such different views on life that all our polemics with you resembles the theater of the absurd. You are talking about the desire to eat deliciously, to sleep softly, while you bring the minimum number of kilocalories, but I don't need all this. I know that in the morning it is enough for me to eat a plate of porridge and before lunch, with all my decent physical activity at work, it is enough for me. Is this porridge tasty or not tasty, the question is so secondary that I pay attention to it only when culinary “show-off” starts waking up in my wife and she persistently seeks an answer regarding the digestibility of her dishes.
                        For you, this question, as I see it, is much more significant if you push it so persistently in the comments, but even for this alone I conclude that our polemic is absolutely useless
                      28. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        +2
                        15 May 2013 18: 36
                        You are not trying to understand what exactly I'm talking about, initially seeing me as an implacable opponent, if not an enemy.

                        I’m not talking about the desire to eat deliciously, but about the possibility of realizing this desire if it appears.
                        What do you live for - what would work?
                        What are you working for - to ensure the overconsumption of your employer, to satisfy his Wishlist?
                        Why are you giving birth and raising children - so that they, like you, work for the interests of those who have papers in which it is written that everything that exists in the country belongs to them? In order for your children to turn into cannon fodder, when it is likely that an uncle from the outside can take the above-mentioned papers from their current owners?

                        In my opinion, when the state and state institutions exist for their citizens, and citizens work for the state and defend it, this is the norm, a symbiosis.
                        But in modern Russia there is no such symbiosis. Only a few of its elements are left, coming from the USSR, but every year these elements are becoming less and less.
                        The country is following a neoliberal course through globalism towards a new feudal fascism on a global scale - is this convenient for you ?.
                      29. +1
                        18 May 2013 17: 01
                        What do you live for - what would work?


                        Probably yes.

                        Why give birth and raise children


                        Probably in order to make himself better. Children are a kind of time machine. We try to prevent them from making those mistakes that we ourselves made and through them (children) achieve what we ourselves did not achieve.
                        when the state and state institutions exist for their citizens, and citizens work for the state and defend it - this is the norm, symbiosis.


                        Here I fully agree with you. But in the history of mankind - this rarely happened.
                        Regarding fascism, we still have a few steps before it, while some are already on the latter and we need to react to this. And we are engaged in self-improvement. The thing is necessary, but we do it, as always, at the wrong time
                      30. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        +1
                        18 May 2013 18: 20
                        It has rarely happened, but it is necessary to strive, and the tendency towards fascism is already clear enough in my opinion.
                        An alternative, as I think, could be an analogue of the USSR, but without the jambs of the latter.
                        I don’t know about self-improvement, but something needs to be done, and yesterday. Otherwise, neither we nor our children will have a future.
                      31. alexandr00070
                        0
                        18 May 2013 21: 52
                        Quote: RRV
                        and the tendency towards fascism is already clear enough in my opinion.

                        Fascism, with the international idea and tolerance that the authorities do not succeed in moving us to, is manifested under the leadership of a nation or nationality (here, for example, the Chechnya of the 90s will do) and judging by how the Russian population is spread rot and ruin, fascism will obviously not Russian, but Russians will always wet it, as always
                      32. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        19 May 2013 00: 44
                        Quote: alexandr00070
                        fascism with the international idea and tolerance towards which the authorities cannot move us, it manifests itself under the leadership of any nation or nationality

                        Or class.


                        Neo-liberalism (which is both a kind of fascism and an intermediate between liberalism and neo-feudalism) is different in that it puts the interests and rights of various minorities above the interests and rights of the majority - this is what we have the opportunity to observe in the West: what is served under a sauce of tolerance ( tolerance) de facto is a very strong excess towards abnormality.

                        Or as in your example, when, despite the number of Russians at 78-80%, the bias goes towards the small ethnic groups of the North Caucasus (acting as a destabilizer of society - like pedas in the West), as well as holders of big capital and, so to speak, class officials (nomenclature-kleptocratic oligarchy).

                        The last two categories are gradually joining the ranks of the supranational oligarchy, which in essence already now represents a kind of new feudal lord.
                      33. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        19 May 2013 01: 16
                        There is, by the way, one curious point: fascism comes from FASCIO - a sheaf, a bunch.
                        The graphic symbol looks like this:
                      34. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        19 May 2013 01: 19
                        But it is curious that this crap, which is essentially fascist symbols, flaunts on the coat of arms of the Federal Penitentiary Service of the Russian Federation laughing
                      35. alexandr00070
                        +1
                        19 May 2013 01: 22
                        Quote: RRV
                        But it is curious that this crap, which is essentially fascist symbols, flaunts on the coat of arms of the Federal Penitentiary Service of the Russian Federation

                        Well, they then think that they joined Roman law and culture, and the coat of arms is the fruit of illiteracy
                      36. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        +1
                        19 May 2013 02: 01
                        The devil knows, maybe so - but annoying.
                        Moreover, this is not an isolated case of such illiteracy: for example, the emblem of the Central Bank, it is also on the banknotes and coins, is the emblem of the Provisional Government, and its lower part (the tail of the eagle) is very similar to the lower part of the Rothschild family coat of arms (a bunch of arrows), which in turn, comparable to fashio. )))
                      37. +1
                        19 May 2013 10: 30
                        Yes, and about Rome - the lictors were kind of like guards, in the sense of bodyguards (FSO), well, sometimes couriers (courier), and very rarely executioners. So their attitude to law is very distant
                      38. 0
                        12 May 2013 20: 11
                        Quote: RRV
                        35% - meat, fish, poultry, eggs.
                        35% - vegetables (excluding potatoes) and fruits.
                        The rest is cereals, pasta, potatoes (not a very useful product), etc.


                        The numbers on which you rely are not true, everything is counted up to us, take for example the army ration. What you need to do is a modest amount, what you WISH - excuse me, what does the state have to do with it?
                      39. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        12 May 2013 20: 54
                        And does our state ever happen to do this, or does it function independently of citizens? In your understanding, does the state exist for a person, or vice versa?

                        The norms of the army ration, cited by you as an example, to which year belong? You didn’t think that the idea of ​​a healthy diet could have changed since then? That army canned minimalism is completely unsuitable for a citizen?
                        Actually, the army diet has never had anything to do with healthy eating.

                        This is not about any hoteliers, but about normal tasty healthy nutrition, which should be guaranteed to ANY working citizen - and the creators of the food basket should not forget about traditional holiday drinks.
                      40. 0
                        13 May 2013 04: 03
                        Quote: RRV
                        It's not about any hoteliers, but about normal tasty healthy nutrition, which should be guaranteed to ANY working citizen - and the creators of the food basket should not forget about traditional holiday drinks

                        Delicious food and healthy eating are not synonyms. The army diet is just a healthy diet, sufficient for vigorous activity, though the army diet is distinguished by freshness.
                        Quote: RRV
                        And does our state ever happen to do this, or does it function independently of citizens? In your understanding, does the state exist for a person, or vice versa?

                        Undoubtedly, the state is more important than the individual, the state - many individuals, seven do not expect one, and seven million and even more so, somehow in their own words)))
                      41. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        13 May 2013 13: 55
                        Tasty and healthy certainly are not synonyms, but healthy can not only be tasty - it should be like that.
                        You obviously missed the army ration - can you give a link to an approximate ration?

                        The state as a set of individuals forming a society is certainly more important, but I think that you understand what I meant and just play with words. )))
                      42. 0
                        13 May 2013 14: 07
                        Quote: RRV
                        And our state someday happens,

                        I enjoyed reading this discussion.
                        Sorry dear, but the impression is clear _ Manilovism of pure water, oddly enough, on either side.
                        Okay, these are emotions, the essence is as follows: A friend went to retire and was assigned a pension of 105 rubles, is it a lot or a little?
                        bully
                      43. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        13 May 2013 15: 07
                        Quote: Cynic
                        is it a lot or a little?


                        If this is not a mistake, then 105 - not rubles, but years of hard labor - for freaks creating such conditions in the country, it will be enough.

                        What is the point of Manilovism? The fact that an ordinary citizen can reasonably live better than now, but he is not given?
                      44. 0
                        13 May 2013 15: 56
                        Quote: RRV
                        If this is not a mistake

                        Eh hehe.
                        You can’t say about you
                        Lack of experience offset knowledge

                        Sorry, but the main thing is not how much a person gets, but how much he can buy with this money !!!
                        By the way, recently all were millionaires! Do you want the return of those times?
                      45. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        13 May 2013 16: 52
                        Quote: RRV
                        Minimum expenses for FULL-FOOD nutrition at current price level will average 12000 rubles.

                        So we get REAL living wage for a working person.

                        That is in 2012 due level the minimum wage for the SOCIAL state of the Russian Federation is about 18450 rubles.
                        If we eliminate the 50% overpricing of tariffs, then purchasing power of these 18 thousand will increase to at least 25 - 30 thousand.



                        You sort of "read the discussion"? Such phrases as - "current price level", "real living wage", "in 2012", "proper level", "purchasing power" - they say nothing to you? )))
                        Or in your opinion, when speaking about the realities of 12-13 years, it is necessary for me to ask the interlocutor if he suddenly decided, for no reason, to talk about the mid-80s of the 20th century? Maybe it’s also worth clarifying which country we are talking about? wink
                      46. Rrv
                        Rrv
                        0
                        13 May 2013 17: 06
                        Quote: RRV
                        To raise the minimum wage changes in taxation and price regulation systems are needed.



                        This is a word laughing
  35. +2
    10 May 2013 17: 49
    On this thread, for mating and insulting an opponent, I deleted several comments, including several warnings, please be restrained.
    1. +1
      10 May 2013 18: 00
      I TNT (the channel insulted) and not an opener request
      1. +1
        10 May 2013 18: 05
        Quote: kosmos84
        I TNT (the channel insulted) and not an opener


        mate and swearing curses, on the forum, in any form is prohibited, read the rules carefully. For the future, for any questions, please contact in a personal.
  36. Lumene
    -2
    10 May 2013 17: 49
    article BRILLING !!! complete.
  37. +7
    10 May 2013 17: 50
    Article +, unfortunately, it did not start yesterday .. well, they do not want to see the defender of the liberator in Russia ... the French who surrendered their country with offal in 2 weeks yes, the usa and england who started fighting in 1944 when they realized that it was time to collect cream yes, and then, with their shobla, e..b..loy signed on May 8 the act of surrender of Germany without the USSR, but not us .... on TV how many modern films where the meaning of films as political officers sniff out everything .... I wouldn’t see my eyes. It’s better to watch an old movie, from modern TV there is almost one negative
    1. -1
      10 May 2013 22: 17
      Well done, he said everything correctly!
  38. stvgol
    +4
    10 May 2013 18: 08
    Buchenwald and Dachau freed the Americans.
    True, an uprising took place in Buchenwald before their arrival.
  39. +5
    10 May 2013 18: 13
    YOU RELEASED AUSCHWITZ, BUCHENWALD AND DACHAU ...
    I thought without thinking that Dachau was liberating parts of the third battalion of the 45th American division ... what
    1. stvgol
      +5
      10 May 2013 18: 19
      And Buchenwald KA did not release. At first the uprising, and two days later the Americans entered there.
      1. +3
        10 May 2013 19: 11
        Quote: stvgol
        And Buchenwald KA did not release. At first the uprising, and two days later the Americans entered there.

        It was in Buchenwald (if my memory serves me, of course) that the Americans kicked all kinds of burghers and their frau with a kick, so that they could see with their own eyes what their beloved Fuhrer had done. The newsreel on this subject is amazing. Romm seemed to have a movie.
        1. +1
          10 May 2013 19: 30
          Well correct, if not right. I'm from memory. Also old, with sclerosis. But I definitely saw such a chronicle. It was the kicks that drove the Germans there. I'm right: pokazuha.ru - Buchenwald. [Pub N: 1127803]. Is there some more.
        2. +2
          10 May 2013 21: 42
          [/ Quote]
          It was in Buchenwald (if my memory serves me, of course) that the Americans drove all kinds of burghers with a kick and their Frau Newsreel on this subject is amazing. Romm in the movie seemed to be. [/ Quote]
          Here is the price of this newsreel. In the city of Kassel, where every adult German was forced to watch a film about the "horrors of Buchenwald," the doctor from Göttingen saw himself on the screen, although he had never been to Buchenwald. It turned out that it was a film taken after the bombing of Dresden on February 13, 1945, where this doctor was then. After that raid, which killed 130 thousand people, mostly women and children, refugees from the eastern regions.
          This is how this newsreel concocted.
          1. +1
            10 May 2013 22: 44
            Quote: zennon
            This is how this newsreel concocted.

            Well, I knew Schaub ... So I fell a victim of falsification. It happens. Everything is not possible to check for accuracy. Otherwise, there will be no time to live. For help - thanks.
            1. +3
              10 May 2013 22: 59
              Quote: retired
              Quote: zennon
              This is how this newsreel concocted.

              Well, I knew Schaub ... So I fell a victim of falsification. It happens. Everything is not possible to check for accuracy. Otherwise, there will be no time to live. For help - thanks.

              Look in the internet for the book by Ernst Zundel "Six Million - Lost and Found", and slowly, calmly, using common sense and brains, read it. Your world will turn upside down, I assure you ...
              1. +1
                10 May 2013 23: 08
                Quote: zennon
                including common sense and brains

                Thanks! I always read with pleasure what was previously unfamiliar to me. I'll find it. Read it. I'll turn it on. By the way. It's not difficult if, then put a working link. I'm also that user ... I call myself a "hopeless computer user" ...
                1. +2
                  10 May 2013 23: 34
                  Please:
                  http://www.hrono.ru/libris/lib_c/cundel.php
                  1. +2
                    10 May 2013 23: 45
                    So, let's start. Thank.
                    1. +1
                      11 May 2013 18: 42
                      Hello men ..
                      there is also such - Jurgen Graf, "The Great Lies of the XX century"
                      Link ... http://webreading.ru/prose_/prose_history/yurgen-graf-velikaya-logh-xx-veka.html
                      ...
                      at least read, at least download ...

                      6 million ....
                      at a time when England refused ship with refugees ... Great sea power, damn it ..
                      1. +1
                        11 May 2013 19: 46
                        Thanks too!
  40. MG42
    +18
    10 May 2013 18: 16
    ... it turns out a simple Russian soldier and the people brought Victory to the Second World War, and the Supreme Commander-in-Chief J.V. Stalin stayed on the sidelines, it sounds a little strange, if we continue the liberal logic, then the "Stalinist camps" and the NKVD were more afraid so they went ahead fearlessly to blame fascists, >>> all because there are such serials about the Second World War as "Penal Battalion" ...
    1. MG42
      +17
      10 May 2013 18: 36
      Photos of those times and before his death, when everything was in good spirits, did not write "For Stalin", right?
      1. +13
        10 May 2013 19: 10
        My father is also a front-line soldier, a participant in the defense of Moscow, unfortunately he has already left for another world. When he talked about the war, he said many times that they went on the attack with calls: - "For the Motherland, for Stalin!" Excuse me, when a person goes on the attack and does not know whether he will survive, you cannot make him scream “for Stalin,” it came from the heart!
        1. -17
          10 May 2013 19: 21
          You tell stories. What, "for the Motherland, for Stalin"? Pure agitprop
          1. +8
            10 May 2013 19: 31
            I am talking about HIS FATHER! Speculate the words of the Father ... JUDGE YOURSELF? For you, it means nothing holy!
            1. -9
              10 May 2013 20: 04
              Or maybe for you?
          2. MG42
            +9
            10 May 2013 19: 39
            Quote: Spade
            What, "for the Motherland, for Stalin"? Pure agitprop

            There are no arguments at all in the comments, here are the real photos above.
            Moscow was defended by the brutal onslaught of the Germans, including because Comrade Stalin remained there and did not evacuate as he was offered.
            1. +4
              10 May 2013 20: 03
              Accidentally put you a minus, I'm sorry! You +100!
              1. MG42
                +4
                10 May 2013 20: 10
                Quote: ia-ai00
                Accidentally put you a minus, I'm sorry!

                Yes, no problem, I plus you, Olga love
            2. -8
              10 May 2013 20: 04
              You will find "real photos", where they attack in one direction at first. and then to another?





              The Red Army had a powerful system of political work, are you aware of this?
              1. MG42
                +7
                10 May 2013 20: 23
                Most likely this is just a photo of a duplicate of some movie >>>
                Quote: Spade
                powerful political work system

                At another time, for example, when the Russian army fought in Chechnya, did you see a tank "for Yeltsin", or in Afghanistan "for Gorbachev" under the USSR?
                Because no, that's all.
                1. -6
                  10 May 2013 20: 39
                  Here I am about that. As soon as the political workers release the reins, struggling with idleness, the soldiers write on the armor not loyal, but something more befitting the moment. Like "x. Take it" or "horseman of the apocalypse"
                  1. MG42
                    +3
                    10 May 2013 20: 55
                    Quote: Spade
                    As soon as political workers release reins, toiling from idleness

                    Ideology is just an important component for the victory of the army, it was not in vain that I cited the examples above >>> that under Yeltsin the shameful Khasavyurt peace with Chechnya was signed, that under Gorby the troops were withdrawn from Afgan, actually losing in that war ...
                    1. -8
                      10 May 2013 21: 05
                      Maybe an important one. Although not decisive. But do not give the work of ideological bodies as reality.
                      1. MG42
                        +8
                        10 May 2013 21: 43
                        Quote: Spade
                        no need to pass off the work of ideological organs as reality.

                        Here is the Kharkov parade on May 9, 2011. veterans with a portrait of Stalin, do you think that under duress they do it?
                      2. MG42
                        +7
                        10 May 2013 22: 03
                        Monument to Stalin in Zaporizhia was made with the money of WWII veterans
                      3. -9
                        10 May 2013 22: 27
                        Dear, this is already too much. As if you yourself do not know why this portrait appeared at the rally.
                      4. MG42
                        +7
                        11 May 2013 00: 20
                        Quote: Spade
                        As if you yourself do not know why this portrait appeared at the rally.

                        This is not a rally, but a Victory Parade, >>> the monument also "appeared" allegedly "by chance"?
                      5. -8
                        11 May 2013 08: 03
                        As a reaction to contemporary events. And all this in no way confirms that they went on the attack with shouts "for the Motherland, for Stalin." It is enough just to fight to understand what really happened there.
                      6. MG42
                        +6
                        11 May 2013 10: 44
                        Quote: Spade
                        As a reaction to contemporary events. And all this in no way confirms that they went on the attack with shouts "for the Motherland, for Stalin."

                        In Zaporizhia, World War II veterans began raising funds for the manufacture and installation of a new monument to Joseph Stalin on the territory of the Zaporizhzhya Regional Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine.

                        Chairman of the city organization of veterans Viktor Korolenko explained that the installation of a new monument to Stalin is a matter of principle for veterans.

                        http://www.utro.ua/ru/zhizn/veterany_sobirayut_dengi_na_novyy_pamyatnik_stalinu_
                        v_zaporozhe1294146518
                        I don't see the logic >>> if Stalin was hated by these people, why are they erecting monuments to him after so many years? for own money and portraits are worn at that age = WWII veterans for 80 years. Something here clearly does not converge.
                        Only veterans of the Second World War = truth-bearers as it actually was, and not modern TV series about the Second World War and all sorts of articles, so nothing but 3 photos of takes I saw arguments confirming your words and refuting mine. hi
                      7. -10
                        11 May 2013 11: 40
                        Quote: MG42
                        I don't see the logic >>> if Stalin was hated for these people

                        Did I say something about hatred? In the trenches, he just didn't care. So no pictures "for Stalin", people had more important problems than glorifying the leader.

                        You cannot understand my arguments. To do this, a little war is necessary.
                      8. MG42
                        +6
                        11 May 2013 11: 50
                        Quote: Spade
                        You cannot understand my arguments.

                        Your argument is from the area >> if a woman gives birth = she screams in her native language (17 moments of spring), i.e. the soldier went on the attack and swore + People's Commissar 100 grams, okay >>> the position is clear, you can not continue ...
                      9. +1
                        12 May 2013 03: 17
                        Quote: Spade
                        You cannot understand my arguments. To do this, a little war is necessary.

                        And on what fronts did you fight? Where did you go on the attack?
          3. 0
            12 May 2013 19: 00
            Yes, they went on the attack with different words! And obscenities, and "For the Motherland!", And "For Stalin!", And "Hurray", and "Gu-ha" and just "Mom!" Why argue something? People are different. However, as now.

            In hooked!
    2. Rrv
      Rrv
      +6
      10 May 2013 18: 47
      Quote: MG42
      ... if you continue the liberal logic ...


      This is not liberal, but neoliberal (Western fascist) "logic".

      For the rest of the comment, it’s a plus.
  41. +3
    10 May 2013 18: 34
    Yuri Karnovsky he said loudly what cut the rumor in the official congratulations on VICTORY DAY - it was not said casual, this is not a reservation and not a mistake - this is a purposeful attempt once again to oppose the statesmen-patriots and liberals-Westerners who are in power in Russia.
  42. +13
    10 May 2013 18: 38
    At all times, people were spread rot, killed, driven to new construction sites (under the kings), where they also perished by the thousands, but no one exposes these rulers as tyrants, and they made Stalin a tyrant for not letting them fatten at the expense of the people, these are who are now buying property on the shores of France and the United States. If Stalin had destroyed only ordinary people, no one would have cursed at him.
    But that would not be Stalin.
    1. Genady1976
      +2
      10 May 2013 18: 48
      That's exactly what I wanted to say +
  43. +5
    10 May 2013 18: 47
    alex-defensor
    ... Now they are also sitting in the United States, but CRIMINALS AND BY THE RESOLUTION OF THE COURT !!

    Well, right, all the "CRIMINALS and BY THE DECISION OF THE COURT" ?!
    Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp - a camp for people accused by the US authorities of various crimes, in particular terrorism, waging war on the enemy’s side, at a U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, 30 km from the city of the same name. The prison appeared in January 2002, when the first 20 people accused of "participation in hostilities on the side of Islamic extremists" - the Taliban - were brought there from Afghanistan. From 2002 to 2006, more than 750 foreigners captured by US troops during operations on the territory of Afghanistan and Iraq passed through it. All of them, according to the US military, participated in operations on the side of al-Qaeda or the Taliban. About 250 people during this time were released, transferred to other prisons or given to countries of which they are citizens (among the extradited were eight Russian citizens). The names of the rest until April 2006 were kept in the strictest confidence "for security reasons." In April, the Pentagon presented a list of 558 former and current Guantanamo prisoners from 41 countries. As of April 2006, 490 prisoners remained in prison, of which only ten were formally charged. Most are citizens of Saudi Arabia (132), Afghanistan (125), and Yemen (107).

    Guantanamo is also the place of detention of the Uyghur separatists, whom the United States refuses to transfer to the PRC [1].

    Well, what do you say?
  44. +10
    10 May 2013 18: 56
    Quote: Chen
    But the broadcast program was really annoying.
    On one channel, lascivious girls drove 4 hours of vodka to the front, on another half-platoon of cheerful saboteurs, they gouged half of Germany, the sire women were friends with the teacher all day ....

    I didn’t want to write anything about this yesterday .... Specially yesterday I went through all the channels. For example sts:

    05:10
    Dr. Oz Show
    05:30
    Music on STS
    06:00
    Cartoons
    07:55
    Robocar Paulie and his friends
    08:30
    Rainbow fish
    09:00
    6 frames
    10:00
    Aladdin
    11:40
    Return of Jafar
    13:00
    Aladdin and the King of Thieves
    14:00
    Prince Vladimir
    16:00
    News-41. Over plan
    16:30
    6 frames
    16:40
    Alyosha Popovich and Tugarin Snake
    18:10
    Ilya Muromets and Nightingale the Robber
    18:55
    The blessed memory of the fallen in the fight against fascism. Minute of silence
    19:00
    Ilya Muromets and Nightingale the Robber
    19:45
    Dobrynya Nikitich and Serpent Gorynych
    21:00
    Ivan Tsarevich and the Grey Wolf
    22:40
    Three heroes and Shamahanskaya queen
    00:10
    Another world. Rise of the Lycans
    01:50
    Fisher King
    04:25
    Zeke and Luther

    TNT was joking at the comediclab all day. Ren - showed nonsense (except for "Zvezda" and "Voroshilovsky shooter", a good film, but not very much on the topic) and further down the list. If that corresponded to the holiday "May 9" then so, in passing, in the style of "get out - and .. eat". The channels broadcast all over the country. And beyond. And about the text being read to the "Minute of Silence" .... Journalists! Hey !! Well, show you all over the country those who wrote it. Lecture them on Buchenwald. Let the people see their "heroes".
    1. djon3volta
      -2
      10 May 2013 20: 37
      Quote: retired
      Channels broadcast throughout the country

      those who live in villages, not in the city, that is, they don’t have any REN TV and TNT STS. I’ll say for my region, I know 100%, I saw because - go to any village except ORT and RUSSIA does not catch anything! Well, TNV TATARSTAN still catches in our villages, EVERYTHING, THREE CHANNELS! And few people have plates in the villages, almost no one, pensioners, and not only do not need plates, they have 2 channels, and they don’t watch TNT even those who live in the city. I personally deleted TNT and STS from the settings specifically, so that when I click the channels, these TNT and STS would not come across.
      1. +4
        10 May 2013 21: 01
        Quote: djon3volta
        they have no REN TV and TNT STS

        Offhand: where I saw all this (and I move around the country a lot) even in small towns and villages (about the North with their villages such as Punga, Andra, Hulemsunt, Nyda, etc. I am generally silent. You are more likely to Culture and NTV, do not look at this bullshit): Tambov region. (I don’t remember the name of the village 30 km. from Morshansk towards Moscow), Tomsk Region. settlement Melnikovo, Tver region Kiverichi village (I could be mistaken), Bashkiria village Isyanovo ... (In Tataria I was also in kmndr, but only in N. Chelny, it doesn't count) in general, everywhere ... Why don't you have it, I don't know. But I know that you have not lost a thing from this "misfortune". I don't care either. I read more than I watch a zombie box. I have about 2000 books downloaded on my computer. Enough for after death. But young people are watching. And "enlightened". I watch Toko news, sports, Culture, Zvezda (historical programs), NTV + football, Science2.0 (I'm looking at it right now ... Let's shorten it.)
  45. Sewer
    +1
    10 May 2013 19: 09
    Well, you (all) give a pancake!
  46. zol1
    +4
    10 May 2013 19: 18
    Only the fascist defiles and their followers could write this! So the fascist reptile was not completely crushed if it still hisses and wriggles!
  47. +5
    10 May 2013 19: 21
    Yes, the akazia came either intentionally and deliberately, or by the stupidity of the leaders of Jewish television, it has long been clear that Stalin in the majority spread rot of the then oligarchs, and he didn’t
  48. andrre122
    +10
    10 May 2013 19: 25
    Victory Day in Tallinn (2013)

    http://ipolk.ru/blog/7821.html
  49. +2
    10 May 2013 19: 38
    All such correct, fiery speech, and in one sentence licked the West in their attempt to equate Stalin and Hitler. There is no other way to explain. I did not expect such a deflection.
  50. groom
    +2
    10 May 2013 19: 49
    "... In the fields beyond the Vistula sleepy they lie damp in the ground ..."
  51. +3
    10 May 2013 20: 00
    My grandfather’s two brothers died in camps, and one served in the NKVD...So, what should I do? To hail or to praise? Probably, we need to look at life through the eyes of the people of that time, and not only through the eyes of the humiliated and insulted... After all, if a neighbor had not reported on a neighbor, then no one would have been imprisoned... And if we listen to shitcrats like Novodvorskaya, then We need to start kissing Americans a long time ago. However, many do just that and teach us how to live, and tell us how good it is “over the hill.” Why are you gentlemen shitcrats living here with us “poor” people? So we should go to a better place and take our whole gang of w...lizz with us!!!
  52. +3
    10 May 2013 20: 07
    “Why, for example, on the eve of the 65th anniversary of the war (note – “war”, not Victory, witty, right?) not raise the question that the Russian people won the war - despite Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin. That is, despite the fact that he caused incredible damage to his country, the people - the country's culture, people, heroes, marshals - jumped out of this meat grinder?

    It was D. Dondurei, editor of the magazine “Cinema Art” (the culture of the country!) who “posed the question” a month before Victory Day. Dondurei is the head! It’s strange, but the cultural expert’s opinion was not only heard, but also shared at the top. Some leaders of the country spoke in a similar spirit on the eve of May 9, saying that Stalin committed a lot of crimes against his people.

    If only they knew how their assessments were echoed by Russophobes of all stripes. It turns out that the regime that defeated Nazism was criminal. In this case, it turns out that the President of Estonia was right when back in 2007 he said in an interview with the BBC: “A group of Nazi bandits were expelled by another gang - Soviet troops.” This idea was later consolidated at the highest level by the OSCE resolution, which constantly cares about the “correct” education of the new Russia. Cultivating complaisance, in the spirit of the directive of the American National Security Council.

    If the head of the Soviet state, which defeated Hitler’s Nazism, was a criminal, then the regime there, of course, was criminal - and then everything is simple for “civilized Europeans”. Criminal regimes have no heroes, only criminals - the logic here is simple. Therefore, why be offended by the decision of the European Court of Human Rights, which condemned the partisan Kononov? He, the court, is not to blame. He simply condemned a criminal representative of a criminal regime. Helped the new Russia fight its criminal past.

    The sad fate of the veterans of the Estonian and Latvian Red Army corps, forgotten in their own countries, follows from the concept of a “criminal regime”; for the current authorities they are a “gang”. In the Baltics, issues of interstate relations were also made subject to the same concept, in particular the question, is it worth serious leaders of serious states to go to Moscow for the anniversary of the victory of this dubious “gang”? And we didn’t go.

    Our past is the foundation on which our future is built. And the correct use of this foundation is the key to the success of further development. And the foundation was very strong, and a magnificent building was built on it. Russia, willingly or unwillingly playing along with those who are at war with its recent past, is losing its foundation and turning into a “hanging state”, hanging without support, on the fragile strings of gas and oil pipelines. A very dangerous situation in turbulent times of the deepest global crisis - what can we rely on to overcome it?
  53. Regis
    +8
    10 May 2013 20: 13
    For example, this news lifted my mood on May 9 even more. Sorry if I attached the video incorrectly.
    I stole the text from Rosbalt.

    MOSCOW, May 9. The Network Hamsters association took upon itself the hacker attack, as a result of which a number of popular media sites, including opposition ones, stopped working on Victory Day.
    “At the moment, such network resources as rupolitika, zaks.ru, lenizdat, fontanka.ru, the Dozhd TV channel, the St. Petersburg Novaya Gazeta, Forbes magazine, the general and St. Petersburg website of Echo of Moscow, mk.ru are unavailable,” - the hackers' message says.
    Last month, the Novaya Gazeta website was unavailable, and “network hamsters” also took responsibility for that DDoS attack.

    The group does not like the rewriting of history about the Great Patriotic War, which, in their opinion, the above-mentioned media are engaged in. “There is no need to throw mud at our Motherland!” - said the hackers. They claim that their ideas are shared by more than 120 thousand people.

    The Dozhd TV channel expects to cope with the network attack within an hour. “Dear friends, the website www.tvrain.ru is temporarily unavailable - we are being DDoSed. We apologize and are doing everything possible to return to our Internet viewers within an hour,” says a message on the channel’s Facebook page.

    1. djon3volta
      -3
      10 May 2013 20: 59
      Quote: Regis
      A number of popular media websites, including opposition ones, ceased operation.

      They attribute to themselves the attack on the Novaya portal on March 31 - April 3, the power of which, according to Kaspersky Lab estimates, reached 60 gigabits per second at its peak.

      For reference: an attack of such power is unprecedented for the Runet. Companies on “our Internet” are not yet ready to protect themselves from such attacks: there is not even suitable equipment capable of transmitting such volumes of traffic.
  54. Rrv
    Rrv
    +6
    10 May 2013 20: 20
    Quote: Yevgeny Petrovich
    At all times, people were spread rot, killed, driven to new construction sites (under the kings), where they also perished by the thousands, but no one exposes these rulers as tyrants, and they made Stalin a tyrant for not letting them fatten at the expense of the people, these are who are now buying property on the shores of France and the United States. If Stalin had destroyed only ordinary people, no one would have cursed at him.
    But that would not be Stalin.
    1. alexandr00070
      +2
      11 May 2013 01: 10
      Quote: RRV
      Quote: Yevgeny Petrovich

      At 37, Khrushchev personally signed 32 death sentences, turned the tables and died an honorary pensioner
      1. Rrv
        Rrv
        +2
        11 May 2013 02: 41
        Not only did he sign, but he also regularly asked to increase the “quotas” until he got it in the neck.
  55. Dmitry.V
    +3
    10 May 2013 20: 32
    It hasn’t just begun, now we ourselves, our government, are beginning to believe in that dirty, blatant lie that is being poured on the USSR. Well, even the last donkey can kick the corpse of a dead Lion...
  56. SPB79
    +5
    10 May 2013 20: 51
    Quote: dizelniy
    Anyway, JV Stalin is the greatest statesman in the history of Russia - Russia. No attempt to discredit the Soviet past will lead to good. There is something to compare. A camp was created by Leib Bornstein, if anyone forgot.

    I completely agree. Putin is a schoolboy compared to him.
  57. Avenger711
    +5
    10 May 2013 20: 54
    This crap happens every year. The same news to me, but I should have written a statement to the prosecutor’s office a long time ago. And also remind you that Stalin I.V. was the Supreme Commander-in-Chief in that War.
  58. Alf
    +7
    10 May 2013 20: 58
    Quote: Merchant
    THAT YOU ALL FIND OUT THE BAD EVEN ON SUCH GREAT HOLIDAYS !!!
    WHAT YOU DO NOT ALL LIKE !!!
    WHAT YOU ARE ALL DISSATISFIED !!!
    AND SO ALREADY TODAY THE PRESIDENT CAN HELP TO LIFT RUSSIA FROM KNEES !!!
    SO LET'S DO NOT INTERVENE IT, HELP !!!
    And THAT THE KNIFE FROM BACK OF EVERYONE CAN PLANT!
    HERE WITHDRAW GDP FROM YOURSELF AND 37 START YOU !!!

    It’s stupid to piss off the GDP - he already does what he wants. Although it’s not 37, even now anyone can be imprisoned without trial. When the law on the police was discussed, in the first version there was the phrase “a police officer SHOULD NOT use torture,” but the phrase became “a police officer SHOULD NOT use torture,” i.e. if you can’t, but you have to, then use it. In fact, now any person, except bureaucrats and moneybags, is defenseless before the law. Name at least one stealing bureaucrat who was imprisoned... Wasn’t it the GDP who said, when asked about Serdyuk’s punishment, that they don’t hand over their own people? In the last days of his reign, iPhone awarded the tagged one with the order for the collapse of the USSR, but the GDP did not cancel this and appointed him deputy. Several years ago there was a REAL opportunity to unite with Belarus according to the USSR scheme (when there is a governing body above the governments of Russia and Belarus), and Father agreed, but it was the Russian government, led by the GDP, that did everything to prevent this. Wasn’t it the GDP that allowed the entry of occupying troops into the 12 Victory Parade?
    Regarding getting up from your knees, just joining the WTO is worth it. This is a stab in the back to an economy that is already barely breathing. Wasn’t it the GDP that decided to carry out a second privatization, including the sale of strategically necessary enterprises, although he himself stated that the first privatization was a bandit? It is already known, under the terms of joining the WTO, that these industries will be put up for sale in America. I wonder who will become their owner? One of the conditions states that the stabilization fund must be located in America and Russia does not have the right to use it. VVP called on the people for reconciliation in the form of the ONF. Is this who I, an ordinary worker, should try to compare myself with - with the bandits and moneybags from the ruble and Novorizhka, who robbed me and the whole people and drove me into the dupe? “Bloody executioner and cannibal” Stalin killed 30 people during his 670 years of rule, and therefore he is a “bloody murderer,” and under democratic Putin and Medvedev, every year there are 000 fewer of us. By the way, in the early 900s, the Russian prosecutor’s office began reviewing the cases of those repressed and 000% of the sentences were left unchanged, and in the 90s, everything that was connected with the name and era of Stalin was generously doused with fecal matter.
  59. 0
    10 May 2013 21: 16
    Quote: Ardent
    And you need to start with those who shit on the air.

    I agree, make the microphone gobble up.
  60. stranik72
    +3
    10 May 2013 21: 24
    Stalin was not sinless; Stalin made many mistakes for which he personally and his sons paid a great and bitter price. Only he was the Winner, and with him the Country and People won. He stood at the origins of the great Empire, the name of which the USSR so ordered History that the GREAT and “terrible” Stalin was the Leader and hope not only of the USSR, but also of everyone who fought against fascism.
    "Not everyone can run
    Your own marathon, at least once,
    But throw dirt from the side of the road
    In running, everyone can definitely do it.”
  61. Vladomir
    +4
    10 May 2013 21: 47
    There is no coincidence, just as there is no accident in the liberal Ponomarev receiving money from the Skolkovo project to protest against the authorities. It was Stalin who interned such whiners, defeatists, jingoists...i.e. Hitler's "fifth" column on the eve of a war on 2 fronts (Germany-Japan). Eliminated the 3rd Front - traitors to Russia. And we, in unity, met the year 1941 and won in 1945. As a result of the Great Victory, the Great Soviet Union and a new, historical community of people were born - the Soviet people, known in the West as the Russian people. There have been, are and will be attempts to discredit and distort everything. Only we must firmly and convincingly for everyone, put provocateurs in their place.
    1. 0
      10 May 2013 22: 37
      You said correctly. Exactly.
      I gave you a +, but the moderator writes to me that I have run out of “pluses”.
  62. ABV
    +3
    10 May 2013 21: 51
    “But the main thing is that because of this phrase, only three conclusions can be drawn:”

    You can also draw the 4th conclusion --- we compared our Gulag with Auschwitz... and this is completely beyond the limit.

    Indeed, the phrase is IDIOTIC, I didn’t even notice right away...
  63. +2
    10 May 2013 22: 04
    The address www.homyachki.com is blocked, this link is nothing but swearing and a reward for the head of the guy who spoke on behalf of the hamsters. They stepped firmly on the tail of the liberals.
  64. -2
    10 May 2013 22: 20
    Has the world gone crazy??? sad
    1. 0
      12 May 2013 19: 06
      Ivanovich47

      Take courage!

      Go to the next forum thread for a while - relax!
  65. Quartermaster
    +2
    10 May 2013 22: 43
    It was Stalin who stood at the head of our state in that terrible and tragic time. It was thanks to him that we survived that war and won.
  66. +1
    10 May 2013 22: 50
    I read in one article that Stalin was a tyrant, and Zhukov a butcher! And they write this on the Internet for everyone to see!!! And don't be ashamed! They are written by young guys who know history only from American films and have no reasonable idea about their homeland and love for it! With a sword belt, you need to instill love in them or drive them out of the country!!!
  67. 0
    10 May 2013 22: 54
    What an abomination! No, it’s time, it’s time to cleanse our media of all this Liberoid scum! They've been messing with our brains for a quarter of a century....
  68. +4
    10 May 2013 22: 55
    The phrase is idiotic - a fact. Whether it’s an accident or not - I don’t presume to judge - it’s just that in Soviet times, professionals worked on TV, and now absolutely illiterate and untalented individuals work there; it’s unclear how they got there. And Putin, Medvedev, Shoigu and others stood and sat down during the passage of the boxes when did the technology go? Honestly speaking, I’m not at all sure whether the Victory Parade is appropriate in today’s Russia - it was not this Russia that won that war - the Soviet Union won the war - you must admit, it was a completely different country and it fought under different banners. This holiday does not belong to us - it belongs veterans who, at the cost of the greatest losses, won the most terrible war in history and then in 10 years raised the country from ruins, so they need to be congratulated and thanked, and not only those who live in Russia. They left us a legacy of a Great Country and we fucked up this country and became a raw material appendage of those whom our grandfathers defeated. So we have no special right to consider ourselves winners
  69. 0
    10 May 2013 23: 00
    Quote: bezumnyiPIT
    My great-grandfather was planted on the other hand, but he told on his collective farm that money can be earned at the railway station, and that they give out food there

    But about this bullshit, please, in more detail, under what article he was convicted, where and by whom, where he served, and preferably documented. Otherwise, they sit in a cell for a hundred lessons, and everyone is innocent and convicted unfairly.
  70. Chern
    -4
    10 May 2013 23: 40
    The author, it seems, took 100g more than once BEFORE writing this article.
    1. djon3volta
      -2
      11 May 2013 07: 07
      Yes, I suppose I bought some sticks for 30 rubles, or a glass cleaner. Well, certainly not on a sober head.
  71. pinecone
    +4
    10 May 2013 23: 43
    And this is not Russian television at all, but an instrument of Jewish propaganda operating on the territory of the Russian Federation.
    1. alexandr00070
      +1
      11 May 2013 01: 15
      Quote: pinecone
      And this is not Russian television at all, but an instrument of Jewish propaganda operating on the territory of the Russian Federation.

      the so-called "Foreign Agent", Ernst to the nail
  72. -1
    10 May 2013 23: 58
    From the article:
    "I'm ashamed of those who run Russia. I'm ashamed of those who run Russian television."
    From my comment:
    “I am ashamed of those who allow yellow-haired authors into our defense industry, who spread their dirt in which they “live”:
    Pig under the century old oak
    I have eaten enough acorns to the full;
    Having eaten, I slept under it;
    Then, with her eyes wide open, she stood up
    And with her snout she began to undermine the roots of the Oak...
  73. +2
    11 May 2013 00: 10
    Comrades, let me raise another last toast.

    I, as a representative of our Soviet government, would like to raise a toast to the health of our Soviet people and, above all, the Russian people. (Stormy, prolonged applause, shouts of “hurray”).

    I drink, above all, for the health of the Russian people because it is the most prominent nation of all the nations that make up the Soviet Union.

    I raise a toast to the health of the Russian people because they have earned in this war and earlier earned the title, if you like, of the leading force of our Soviet Union among all the peoples of our country.

    I raise a toast to the health of the Russian people, not only because they are the leading people, but also because they have common sense, general political common sense and patience.

    Our government had many mistakes, we had moments of desperate situation in the 1941-42 years, when our army retreated, left our native villages and cities of Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, the Leningrad Region, the Karelian-Finnish Republic, left because it didn’t there was another way. Some other people could say: you did not live up to our hopes, we will set up another government that will conclude peace with Germany and provide us with peace. This could happen, keep in mind.

    But the Russian people did not agree to this, the Russian people did not compromise, they showed unlimited trust in our government. I repeat, we had mistakes, the first two years our army was forced to retreat, it turned out that they did not master the events, did not cope with the situation. However, the Russian people believed, endured, waited and hoped that we would cope with events.

    It is for this trust in our government that the Russian people have shown us, thank you very much!

    For the health of the Russian people! (Stormy, long, unceasing applause.)

    Source: Science and Life, http://www.nkj.ru/archive/articles/527/
  74. +1
    11 May 2013 00: 17
    Since the beginning of the 90s, probably no fewer people died, and maybe more than in Stalin’s camps, and this without any suffering or war! from drug addiction, alcoholism, unsettled life in a new life, aggravated illnesses, low-quality food, endless gang wars that claimed a hell of a lot of meaningless lives of young people, I think Stalin would have found a good use for these individuals, eager for personal enrichment, who want to shoot aimlessly and show off! at least they would have been useful for the country, but they disappeared in vain. I don’t even remember the war in Chechnya; it might not have happened at all! many good people, true hard workers, were unable to adapt to a new round of democratization, but as a rule, the most nosy cunning predatory people who, in general, do not care about the HOMELAND in which they live, and some of whom would be nice to sniff at Stalin’s camps!!! Of course, no one is trying to say that Stalin acted truly correctly; there were more than excesses! but the result is clear and this is also an undeniably advanced, world-leading industry! The great war has been won! high birth rate, which was not even affected by the countless losses of the war (and now, without war and with money, no one wants to kill)! shoots into space (although this is no longer Stalin, but his legacy!) Tiracts, carruption, Svedina’s banditism is close to 0!! and that we have a dermocracy and no tyranny and nothing at all except imaginary naked freedom and all of the above that under Stalin was reduced to 0!! an honest person is considered a SUCKER!! Yes, we’ve sunk to the point where we can’t control ourselves from the USA!! we have lost all territories, many of whom now consider us as occupiers, and this is no longer within any limits!!! and we really don’t know where to go next in the country! Well, when was it better? so, even if people died in vain, it is BETTER TO DIE FOR YOUR MOTHERLAND THAN FOR GREEN PAPER!!!
  75. ilya63
    0
    11 May 2013 00: 34
    I am ashamed of those who lead Russia. I am ashamed of those who run Russian television. And it hurts me so much for the heroes who defeated fascism.
    Good words from the author, because without an order the media does not work, so we need to find out whose order it is and stop messing around with the outright enemies of Russian society and the country. I think there are enough forces and means to carry out an “exemplary flogging”, it’s time for various people to answer for the market, if fail to react in time, other people will take the situation into their own hands (the top can’t do this yet, and the bottom doesn’t want to, the situation may change quite soon)
    1. alexandr00070
      +2
      11 May 2013 01: 06
      Quote: ilya63
      Good words from the author, because without an order the media does not work, so we need to find out whose order it is and stop messing around with the outright enemies of Russian society

      Or maybe these words are another test for society - they will remain silent, they will continue to spread rot, they will begin to be indignant, there will be some other actions, God willing, for the good. By the way, if Putin had given an unambiguous assessment of Stalin (as for example Serdyukov - they haven’t proven he’s not a thief), otherwise he mumbles about a cult, camps, and the media picks up as the official “party line”
      from 1,40 minutes
  76. Genady1976
    +1
    11 May 2013 00: 47
    Yes, if it weren’t for Stalin, you wouldn’t exist. Why, I wouldn’t exist.
    Thanks to Comrade Stalin for our happy childhood.
    And those who denigrate Stalin know that under Stalin they would have come for them.
    1. people think
      +2
      11 May 2013 03: 15
      if it weren’t for my parents I wouldn’t exist, what the hell kind of childhood we didn’t have then, let’s be afraid together, maybe it will feel better
  77. jjj
    0
    11 May 2013 01: 28
    I would also like to add this observation. On various channels there are screensavers about front-line soldiers and their weapons. Each one ends with the veteran saluting us viewers after his story. But everyone puts their hand to the “empty head”. This is the degree of stupidity that production directors must be in order to force our front-line soldiers to do according to American regulations.
    And it’s also annoying that the units are now universally called military. Even during the parade, the commentator broadcast this.
  78. people think
    -4
    11 May 2013 02: 31
    forgive the Russian people, but I will speak out. I don’t understand what Stalin and patriotism have to do with it. I consider myself a patriot of my country, but I don’t feel a sincere Russian soul in the former Georgian leader, who destroyed his entire population in Gori (the village where he comes from), allowed so much the victims of us Russians in the first years of the war. There is no need to list all the “feats” of the leader for thinking people, they already understand that they can’t take the leader before last out of the mausoleum. I’m not a liberal, not a fifth columnist, not an anti-Stalinist, but people Understand that it was not Stalin and Zhukov who won the war, but our people, grandfathers and fathers, who defended not the Soviet system and the ideas of communism, but their close wives and children. People, come to your senses, stop listening to Kurginyans and old people, Russia has a deeper history and culture. Until then, you mark time, we are losing precious time for ourselves and our children. Learn to pray and forgive Russians. And please leave Putin alone, look for your troubles within yourself
    1. +1
      11 May 2013 13: 50
      Quote: people think
      allowed so many casualties among us Russians in the first years of the war

      Don’t distort, it was the Germans who killed the Russians, not Stalin. Hitler personally gave the order to exterminate the Slavs.
    2. +1
      11 May 2013 13: 59
      Where did such an illiterate come from? Gori is not a village, but a rather large city by Georgian standards. And where does such knowledge about exterminating the population of Gori come from? I lived in Georgia for 4 years and never heard anything about such genocide.
      You are clearly brainwashed by our media, try to think for yourself about what you are stating.
      And I think that a real Patriot of his Country must be literate, know the Russian language well and be able to use it.
      And by the way, read Starikov yourself and tell me where they are wrong?
  79. lazy05
    -2
    11 May 2013 02: 40
    Another information garbage. And, you shouldn’t focus on it. Moreover, the author of the text consumed “one hundred grams of the People’s Commissar’s”, although he, in principle, could not be allowed to see them, either in his service or in time! Yes, in general, an illiterate “Cossack”.
  80. garik404
    +1
    11 May 2013 03: 49
    And I, guys, like this parade!
  81. 0
    11 May 2013 03: 52
    I have not heard this speech, but if this took place, then I completely agree with the author.
    1. djon3volta
      -2
      11 May 2013 07: 11
      no one has heard it except the author))) and someone wrote here in the comments that there are no such words there at all!
      1. +1
        11 May 2013 07: 32
        Well, why didn't anyone hear? I heard it, and these words made me feel just as disgusted! What does VICTORY Day have to do with it and what do some “human rights activists” call Stalin’s camps?! The bastards spoiled the mood, I immediately felt the “hands” of people like Novodvorskaya and others like her, who are ready for everything Soviet and Russian, excuse me, most...
  82. +2
    11 May 2013 04: 15
    This text needs to be edited, it doesn’t just hurt your ears, it makes you want to punch you in the face...
  83. +5
    11 May 2013 04: 19
    I support the appeal. On Victory Day, it is inappropriate to say that we had such-and-such a bad country. If we talk about the shortcomings of Stalin's time, then not on Victory Day and in a different context. And the fact that he was the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the army that defeated fascism is a fact that cannot be removed or distorted.
  84. +2
    11 May 2013 06: 43
    Indeed, all this is disgusting, disgusting and disgusting. One television worker speaks disgustingly about Ukraine, another, and this is not the first time, speaks vilely about our grandfathers and fathers, who did not spare their lives to defend their Motherland in the Great Patriotic War, and In general, it’s disgusting to listen on Russian television to these politically illiterate commentators and TV presenters who do not know the history of their Motherland with three or more diplomas of higher education, bachelors and masters, who know the official history of the United States and do not know the history of their Motherland.....
    1. sashka
      0
      11 May 2013 16: 06
      Quote: vlad.1924
      and in general, it’s disgusting to listen on Russian television to these politically illiterate commentators and TV presenters who do not know the history of their Motherland with three or more higher education diplomas, bachelors and masters, who know the official history of the United States and do not know the history of their Motherland.....

      The main thing is... you don’t know how to answer. How stupid you need to be.
  85. -9
    11 May 2013 07: 28
    Hysterical article. Disgraced by TV? The nonsense of a Stalinist fan.

    “For even an underdeveloped idiot knows that now in Russia there are as many people in prison as there were under Stalin. And in the USA there are even more.”- The USA is generally a separate issue, besides, the population there is twice as large.
    I don’t argue that Stalin played a huge role in the formation of the country, but deny the camps, executions without trial, etc. stupid. What if now they are imprisoned for no reason, but this happens, then it is possible to justify unfair punishments under Stalin?

    “Only those who had someone behind them fought well. But this is a blatant lie.” - the author began to sputter with hysterical saliva, already thinking out and supposedly developing the phrase. A video of a stuffed Stalin being beaten with sticks was probably playing in his head along with these lines. laughing

    It turns out that there was no Victory ... But not heroes fought against fascism, but slaves, for whom the fear of entering the Stalinist camps was worse than the fear of death. - the author’s head has completely gone. Yes, despair helped us win in many ways. And in the author’s opinion, the soldier suddenly said: “I’ve even changed my mind about fighting, I’ll go away from the war,” and in response to him: “Here’s some bread and clean water for you, good luck.” So what? There were heroes and there was motivation for heroism: patriotism, embitterment, but also almost no choice! And why the author fails to win in this regard is a question for his sick imagination.
    And with great pleasure I will drink 100 grams of front-line - yeah, get over it, for Stalin, for the Motherland...


    Well, in fact, it seems to me that this is another quibble of paranoid provocateurs who no longer know what to cling to in order to feel oppressed and oppressed by the “bloody regime of Putin.” am
    1. Georges14
      +1
      11 May 2013 10: 01
      "to deny camps, executions without trial, etc. is stupid."
      Nobody denies it. There is no need to be clever and distort. The point is that there is no time and no place.
      If this is not clear, I can make it simpler - you shouldn’t discuss intimate details of her personal life at a woman’s funeral - they can beat you.
      1. -3
        11 May 2013 11: 24
        Quote: Georges14
        There is no need to be clever and distort. The point is that there is no time and no place.
        - who decided that? You? And I feel proud for those people whom the country oppressed, and they selflessly fought for their Motherland. Remembering the Chechen war, don’t you think it’s shameful to say that an old senile man put guys in hell who, perhaps, had never even seen a woman naked? They were stupidly hysterical for no reason.
    2. stranik72
      +1
      11 May 2013 10: 24
      Masterzserg
      "Yeah, fight for Stalin, for the Motherland"
      Well, announce the portrait of your Poo, it will be more convenient for you.
      Since he didn’t get enough brains.
      About the USA, I’m an idiot in terms of percentage to explain to you how this is calculated, or ask your daddy from the author.
      1. -1
        11 May 2013 11: 09
        You keep an eye on the broom, understand? Where does it say "percentage"?
  86. -4
    11 May 2013 08: 01
    “Soldier of the Great Patriotic War! You stood to death near Moscow and Stalingrad, carried bread to besieged Leningrad, burned in a tank near Prokhorovka... By dying, you saved millions of lives. You, who lost relatives and friends in Stalin’s camps, brought freedom to prisoners of Auschwitz and Buchenwald , Dachau... You did not invade other people's borders, did not seek glory. You defended the Fatherland! Defended your family. Let us remember everyone who laid down their lives on the altar of Victory... Let us bow to them deeply."
    The author of the article writes: “It was not heroes who fought fascism, but slaves, for whom the fear of ending up in Stalin’s camps was worse than the fear of death.” - this is his stupid conclusion.
    - According to the author’s logic and if we refer to the text of the minute of silence, we can find fault with the words "Defending my family", yeah, that is, if a person is an orphan, without a family, he no longer fought and cannot be a hero?
    Or,“I carried bread to besieged Leningrad, it burned in a tank near Prokhorovka...”, yeah, the hated TEV men disgraced me again, my great-grandfather didn’t do anything like that, why didn’t he fight? wasn't shell-shocked?

    Same with the phrase "You, who lost your loved ones in Stalin's camps" - it was the author of this article who united everyone who fought under this phrase! There were those who lost loved ones, there were those who did not, there were those who themselves were hunched over in the camps, so why be hysterical? And most importantly, a bunch of forum members fell for outright stupidity, this is disgusting, disgusting, disgusting. It's so easy to create panic and outrage over nothing, it smacks of herding.
    1. Lukich
      +1
      11 May 2013 16: 06
      Quote from Masterzserg RU: “It’s the same with the phrase “You, who lost your loved ones in Stalin’s camps” - the author of this article united everyone who fought under this phrase! There were those who lost loved ones, there were those who did not lose them, there were those who themselves hunched over in camps, why hysteria? And most importantly, a bunch of forum members fell for outright stupidity, this is disgusting, disgusting, disgusting. It’s so easy to impose panic and indignation over nothing, it smells like a herd." - there is no need to dissemble, dear - this phrase is general in nature and points to the entire people.
      And you don’t have to be the smartest, and you don’t have to compare us to the herd. Otherwise, people like you are blurring everyone’s eyes and gradually want to turn us into a herd... This is a systematic information offensive.
  87. The comment was deleted.
  88. 0
    11 May 2013 08: 25
    "Oh, you could not flinch in '41,
    Going to the last, mortal, bayonet...
    With the words of an oath to calm your nerves and lead the bravest with you?”
    Requires an answer without any "yak"
    Not tolerating a drop of falsehood in souls,
    The question is direct - like a queue from a bunker,
    Directed specifically at you...
  89. stranik72
    +2
    11 May 2013 10: 27
    Masterzserg
    It is characteristic that the same schizophrenic state of the brain as yours in the heads of the majority of libertarians often coexists with a sincere conviction that they are right and infallible. At the same time, any arguments and arguments against this are rejected a priori. It is a well-known medical fact that schizophrenics reproduce well and form some kind of association, such as edros or office hamsters. But even fools need to understand that the banquet at the country’s expense must end sooner or later, otherwise the country called Russia will disappear. The country has no communal services, no agriculture, no transport, no medicine, no justice, not a damn thing, the army is armed and continues to arm itself with weapons from the mid-20th century, and we also hand over ideology to all sorts of Russophobes. Victory is the only thing that remains for the country from that great thing that was done, including at the cost of great blood, by our ancestors. Vissarionovich get up, your time has come
    1. 0
      11 May 2013 11: 18
      Now you are exhibiting the symptoms you described. I wrote everything, quote and write what you disagree with. I have nothing against or for Stalin. He is a historical figure. There are both positive and negative facts associated with it. It was and is gone. My opinion: I would not want to live with him at that time. Regarding the phrase “Stalin’s camps”, they were, some of the people who fought for the country had their loved ones taken away by that regime - is this true and why can’t we talk about it?
      1. Georges14
        0
        11 May 2013 13: 20
        “Regarding the phrase “Stalin’s camps”, they were, some of the people who fought for the country had their loved ones taken away by that regime - is this true and why can’t we talk about it?”
        Then we need to talk about those who defended Moscow and Stalingrad, but lost the country they defended. About those who reached Berlin and Vienna, but did not reach the social security window for the mocking re-registration of their pension. About those who transported bread to Leningrad, but died of hunger because... the pension was not paid for months. About those who survived the bombs, but died from lack of medicine in an unheated hospital. About those who liberated the world from Nazism, but lost the freedom to speak the truth in their own country.
        Everyone needs to be remembered. Even those who worked selflessly in the rear, and then lost all their savings (as well as the savings of their family and friends) during Gaidar’s reforms and Yeltsin’s defaults. In short, everyone.
        1. +1
          11 May 2013 13: 59
          And what does the tragedy of the early 90s, its victims and Victory Day have to do with it? The tragedy of the 90s had many victims, not only veterans, and how many more of these victims there will be, only God knows... Why remember this on Victory Day? According to your logic, we need to remember both those whom the racketeers shot, and those who became addicted to drugs, with I'm drowning drunk, they are also victims of the 90s, those who graduated from college and became a criminal because no one needed them, so what? On Victory Day, before a minute of silence, we remembered the people and events of that time, what does the damn social security window have to do with it? And the unfortunate veterans should not be remembered on May 9 before a minute of silence, this should be done all the time.
          1. Georges14
            0
            11 May 2013 14: 57
            Well, really, I don’t even know how to answer you to make it clearer. Okay, I’ll try it your way: Regarding the phrase “victims of the tragedy of the 90s,” there were some, some of the people who fought for the country had loved ones taken away by this regime - is this true and why can’t we talk about it?
            So see?
  90. Sereja.smile
    +2
    11 May 2013 10: 39
    One of my grandfathers ended up in a fascist camp at the beginning of the war. He returned to his homeland. He was not sent to any Stalinist camps. It is a myth that everyone (or almost everyone) was imprisoned. Although they checked everyone. But back in the 80s, my elders advised me, a 5-year-old boy, not to tell anyone about this. I remember this.
    Although Stalin made mistakes, he did more of the right things (during the Patriotic War). I speak as a historian. There is no need to deify him, but there is also no need to blame him for all sins. My other great-grandfather died near Orel. History must be remembered and not distorted. This war was the Great Patriotic War - because more than 25 million people died in our country. 1/5 of our population. Few families did not lose relatives in this war. I am grateful to every veteran of this war, to those who forged victory in the rear, with sweat, blood, sleepless nights... I still don’t like the Germans...
    1. +1
      11 May 2013 13: 57
      Quote: Sereja.smile
      One of my grandfathers ended up in a fascist camp at the beginning of the war. He returned to his homeland. He was not sent to any Stalinist camps. It is a myth that everyone (or almost everyone) was imprisoned. Although they checked everyone. But back in the 80s, my elders advised me, a 5-year-old boy, not to tell anyone about this. I remember this.

      Well, someone’s grandfather won’t admit to his grandson that he collaborated with the Germans in captivity, or stole while working in the rear, etc.
  91. -5
    11 May 2013 11: 40
    “But the main thing is that because of this phrase, only three conclusions can be drawn:
    During the war, every soldier, officer and general had someone sitting for them. In total, about 37 million people passed through the Red Army. Consequently, the same number of people sat. But this is a blatant lie."
    - why such a conclusion, Yurka? In the speech before the minute of silence there is the phrase “You... brought bread to besieged Leningrad, burned in a tank near Prokhorovka...” That all 37 Lyams carried bread to besieged Leningrad? Did all 37 million burn in a tank near Prokhorovka? When you are nimble, will you already cling to this phrase and write an appeal to the prosecutor’s office?))

    Fascism was defeated not by free people and heroes, but by relatives of prisoners, for whom the fear of leaving the camp was stronger than the fear of death. But this is a blatant lie. - there were some among the winners, where did you get the idea, Yurka, that they say about everyone? The speech described the victorious Soviet soldier from different sides, not a specific soldier, in general. How can this not be clear?

    Only those from whom someone was sitting fought well. But this is a blatant lie. - he himself drew the main conclusion and refuted it himself, this is really schizophrenia.
  92. +2
    11 May 2013 14: 34
    Seryoga, you are wrong! I don’t have any schizophrenia, otherwise I wouldn’t have served where I served. The point is, listen to the speech live. If there is a simple enumeration about everyone you are talking about, then about Stalin’s camps - the main emphasis and even strain! Compared to those who really fought, those who were related to these camps, even through loved ones and relatives, are an insignificant number. And in this speech one can clearly hear the voice of the late Solzhenitsyn and his “tens of millions” in the camps
  93. +1
    11 May 2013 15: 34
    Yes, to the count of all the liberal whores who broadcast this vileness on federal channels!
  94. +1
    11 May 2013 15: 38
    The author is right, the phrase is not appropriate on this day. Globalization of the media in the interests of the States - that’s what has such “pearls of Russophobia” in a hidden form.
  95. +1
    11 May 2013 19: 52
    brought freedom to prisoners of Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Dachau

    or stupidity, and illiteracy, or they are about American soldiers, or I don’t even know,,,,
    stupid creaks of Buchenwald, Dachau was liberated by the AMERICANS!
    you even messed up here
    idiots remember - the red army liberated Auschwitz, Majdanek, Chelmno, Sachsen
    Hausen et al.
  96. Ivga_lis
    +2
    11 May 2013 22: 29
    YOU, WHO'S CLOSE AND FAMILY HAVE PASSED THROUGH THE STALIN CAMPS, YOU HAVE LIBERATED WITH OSVENTSIM, BUCHENVALD AND DAHAU ...
    Probably, the authors of this text are very close relatives of the notorious de-Stalinizer Mikhail Fedotov, who for some reason misunderstanding, still holds the post of chairman of the Human Rights Council.

    While such Russophobes with historical pain will sit in the media, the Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Education, remove heresies like the Citadel, include the works of Solzhenitsyn in the school curriculum, the generation of “Ivans who do not remember kinship” will multiply in our country. It’s even worse that from year to year they pollute people’s brains, calling on them to “repent” for the entire Soviet era, and putting Stalin on a par with Hitler, and turning the victorious Soldier into cannon fodder, intimidated at the genetic level.
    I had to communicate with current schoolchildren who firmly believe that the USSR showered the Nazis with corpses, that the generals and marshals were completely stupid careerists, and Stalin drank the blood of peasant babies in the morning. And the worst thing is that these schoolchildren then enter the Faculty of History, and not just anywhere, but at Moscow State University...
  97. +2
    11 May 2013 23: 07
    I'm 53 (1959). I want to write a little off topic. My parents didn’t fight, of course, but I read a lot of literature thanks to them. Books published during Khrushchev's Thaw. Mostly the memories of people who were former prisoners of Auschwitz, Mauthausen, Buchenwald... The vast majority of the current generation has not even heard of them. All these concentration camps were saved from destruction by the Nazis by the prisoners themselves; the fighting core was mainly made up of Soviet prisoners of war. Almost everyone remembers that after the German concentration camps they spent time in Soviet camps until the thaw. But all of them were and remained patriots of the Soviet homeland.
    I don’t know what kind of “enemy” is on this site, but it’s impossible to read it, it’s a complete slowdown, it’s overloaded, I spent an hour writing this comment. You know, this is a sacred cause, but the most dangerous enemy is the one who dresses up in the clothes of patriots. Can you put things in order?
    1. 0
      11 May 2013 23: 20
      Yes, the site seems to be working fine.
      1. +2
        11 May 2013 23: 34
        Normal, but with so many comments it will definitely slow down. It is impossible to read all the comments, and hardly anyone does it; it is enough to read about a dozen to understand the topic. You can probably make it easier to read some articles with a huge number of comments by reducing the number of graphics (for example). With respect to the authors and commentators. Eugene
        1. +1
          12 May 2013 06: 11
          As for example, on many forums replies to a post are minimized - it reduces the number of posts and takes up less space on the page
        2. Rrv
          Rrv
          +1
          12 May 2013 10: 10
          Quote: Evgeny59
          It is impossible to read all the comments, and hardly anyone does it


          Maybe. And if I do it, then someone else does it too. )))
          1. +1
            12 May 2013 12: 39
            Quote: RRV
            Maybe. And if I do it, then someone else does it too. )))

            We read ALL the comments until new messages stop coming. We don’t read all topics - yes.
  98. Skunk
    -6
    11 May 2013 23: 40
    The article is a big minus. It’s bad, of course, that irresponsible citizens are trying to challenge the fact of MASS repressions and prove Stalin’s infallibility. In general, things are obvious, but no, they argue, encourage each other... Well, God bless them. There are few of them, there is no point in proving the opposite. They don’t want to think and this is bad, although very predictable...
    1. +1
      12 May 2013 06: 37
      You somehow casually labeled forum members with the label “irresponsible, unthinking citizens.” Just wondering what this statement is based on? Obviousness is what I see with my own eyes! Have you seen this with your own eyes? And if you are not 100 years old, which is exactly what the minimum should be in this case, because if it is less, then what kind of consciousness can we talk about, then please explain. I lived through both eras, and all this talk about Stalin, Lenin and socialism in general was constantly shocking, overgrown with such details that one day I could not stand it and began to figure it out, persistently and rethinking all these steps. When the husks of myths and assumptions fell away, suddenly something else was revealed and I took the side of the Stalinists. Why? Yes, because there were repressions, but there were negligibly few repressed people and most of them were repressed for their cause. I would very much like those who promoted the machine of mythology regarding the repressions of those years, and their followers, to be repressed. For example, the bloodiest reactionary of those years, Mr. Khrushchev, who destroyed a truly huge number of innocent people and then blamed it on Stalin. Mr. Solzhenitsyn, thanks to whose efforts and others like him, the collapse of the greatest country, the like of which will never exist, took place. During the Stalin years, in addition to the war, there was a demographic explosion, and now there is a demographic hole. What you wrote is demagoguery.
      Appeal to evidence, false authority

      The demagogue’s argumentation begins with expressions like “everyone knows that...”, “obviously...”, “science has long proven...”, “all successful businessmen know that...” and so on. At the same time, the false pride of the listener is exploited (if something is presented as “well-known,” it can be difficult for him to admit even to himself that he has never heard of it) or imaginary authorities are cited who agree with the statement, which has an effect on people who are inclined to trust authorities.

      As a separate technique, unproven statements can be distinguished[3].
      1. Skunk
        0
        13 May 2013 00: 39
        Quote: dddym
        Just wondering what this statement is based on?

        Well, actually, on a whole series of documents and memories of both relatives and non-relatives. Here in discussions it is very fashionable to write - I have two grandfathers, they fought... So I would refer, for example, to the memories of my grandfathers. I foresee how our patriots will now shout “...Yeah, your grandfathers were rare villains and ate babies alive, so they only remember the bad...” But no, I’ll hasten to upset irresponsible citizens - one went through the Finnish and WWII, graduated in Norway with the rank of aviation colonel, the second was a fairly famous designer, probably many arms lovers are familiar with his last name. In general, they were very honored and favored people by the authorities. I have a whole box of their orders and medals, even decorate the Christmas tree. So, both talked about the repressions, how they waited at night for someone to come, how they took away their neighbors... Both treated Stalin very coldly. My grandmother had three brothers, all three were shot for the phrase “The Stakhanov movement is a profanation.” This is from the case file, where a denunciation was attached to them... I read a copy of the case. They lie in the Levashovskaya wasteland. Now, of course, they have been rehabilitated. The grandmother herself was expelled from the institute for her noble origin, and was reinstated only after the grandfather went to see Voroshilov. ))) I won’t cite their memories about the red bastard in civilian life - they were still little...
        1. +1
          13 May 2013 15: 58
          Stop stop stop! Don't run away from the answer so cleverly. the question sounded like this:
          You somehow casually labeled forum members “irresponsible, unthinking citizens.” Just wondering what this statement is based on?
          I hope you have an answer to this. Now about what you wrote in the previous post.
          No one was ever shot for the phrase “the Stakhanov movement is a profanation.” My grandfather was almost imprisoned for a very bad joke, but was released after three days. That's who the Soviet authorities were "unkind" to! But denunciation is a different matter - those same troikas could have been shot, but what do the troika’s decisions have to do with Stalin? Rather, to Mr. Khrushchev, Eikha and the like - who were in opposition to Stalin. They were afraid of the funnel - a fact! And even after the war they were afraid of the same thing under Khrushchev. And even now they are afraid. And your grandfathers had something more interesting for the NKVD when they shot everyone. The question is, when were they shot? 33? 37? - date please! And even when they were rehabilitated. I would very much like to look at the documents to which you are appealing.
          1. Skunk
            0
            14 May 2013 01: 17
            Two were sentenced by the Special Troika of the UNKVD LO under Articles 58-10-11 and executed on November 12, 1937. The third, arrested in Kazan on October 14, 1937, was charged under Article 58-10 and sentenced to death. The sentence was carried out on November 9, 1937.
            The first two were arrested in Leningrad following the denunciation of Yu.P. Shidlovsky. ((NKVD informant), there are no relatives here???) they went on the case of their cousin (it turns out my great-great-grandfather...), a pensioner, who was also shot on charges of creating a counter-revolutionary organization in 1937, but specifically on them , denunciation of Shidlovsky Yu.P. contained accusations of repeatedly ridiculing the Stakhanov movement.
            All were rehabilitated in the 50s, after the death of Stalin.

            Troika to Stalin? Do you mean he was not aware of what was happening in his country? Hm... well, it’s completely naive to think so.

            Well, regarding irresponsible, unthinking citizens - people who deny the historical facts of their country, and the facts of recent history, only because these very facts do not fit into the concept of their deification of the ruler of this country and idealization of the very ambiguous era of his rule are irresponsible and citizens who do not want to think.
            1. 0
              15 May 2013 19: 52
              I don’t want to offend the memory of your grandfathers in any way; you saw the verdict against your relatives and justified indignation bubbles up like a volcano in your heart. Troikas are not the brainchild of Stalin, but in your case the NKVD - specifically Mr. Yezhov, if you remember Stalin himself repressed him later. And it turned out that Mr. Yezhov was shot righteously. In addition, if you write about the rehabilitation of your grandfathers in 1950, then this is the rehabilitation of Mr. Beria, and if under Khrushchev, they generally rehabilitated everyone right and left. And I also see that your grandfathers were really interesting for the NKVD since they attached special agents to them and hunted them all over the country. Still, you don’t voice a copy of the verdict, but simply write again about the Stakhanov movement - you weren’t shot for such words - even in troikas and on denunciation. The most active elements were shot and the rest were sent to special settlements. In your case, a miscarriage of justice has a very small chance, since the execution of three people means it was done in an organized manner. They stepped on someone's throat. Stalin knew about the troikas, but if he had not done this, they would have done the same to him and now we would be mourning him as a repressed person.
        2. Grishka100watt
          0
          13 May 2013 16: 16
          Well, actually, on a whole series of documents and memories of both relatives and non-relatives. Here in discussions it is very fashionable to write - I have two grandfathers, they fought... So I would refer, for example, to the memories of my grandfathers. I foresee how our patriots will now shout “...Yeah, your grandfathers were rare villains and ate babies alive, so they only remember the bad...” But no, I’ll hasten to upset irresponsible citizens - one went through the Finnish and WWII, graduated in Norway with the rank of aviation colonel, the second was a fairly famous designer, probably many arms lovers are familiar with his last name. In general, they were very honored and favored people by the authorities. I have a whole box of their orders and medals, even decorate the Christmas tree. So, both talked about the repressions, how they waited at night for someone to come, how they took away their neighbors... Both treated Stalin very coldly. My grandmother had three brothers, all three were shot for the phrase “The Stakhanov movement is a profanation.” This is from the case file, where a denunciation was attached to them... I read a copy of the case. They lie in the Levashovskaya wasteland. Now, of course, they have been rehabilitated. The grandmother herself was expelled from the institute for her noble origin, and was reinstated only after the grandfather went to see Voroshilov. ))) I won’t cite their memories about the red bastard in civilian life - they were still little...

          Now, don’t get me wrong, but it’s very hard to believe what you wrote. So all three were shot for the phrase “The Stakhanov movement is a profanation”?
          I would like to look at electronic copies of the documents you are talking about.

          Otherwise, someone can write that his grandfather was a well-known cosmonaut in his circles, and another spent his weekends hunting bears with only one horn - so not everything can be trusted.. request
          1. Grishka100watt
            0
            13 May 2013 16: 41
            Moreover, it was not in Voroshilov’s department that there were questions, one of which your grandfather turned to him about. It is difficult to imagine (albeit possible, but difficult) that Kliment Efremovich contacted the leadership of the institute (although, most likely, the leadership of the NKVD) in order to resolve the issue of reinstatement to study for a person whose three family members were sentenced to the corresponding capital punishment what
    2. +1
      13 May 2013 18: 47
      Those who were imprisoned were not released into Heroes.
      So there is no need to confuse completely different stories.
      This is unfair.
      And further.
      Our whole history says that there was, is and will be something to imprison a more or less significant person for.
      This was the case under Grozny, under Peter, Catherine, Nicholas, Stalin,... Nothing has changed today.
      Just listen to any stream of news - they are all about criminality...
      Is Stalin to blame for this too?

      And Fascism (another European crusade) was stopped and crushed by the Demigods from the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and Navy.
      And this is an indisputable historical fact.
  99. Mat
    Mat
    0
    12 May 2013 11: 18
    sl_lopatnikov: Well, I ask you to distribute it as widely as possible. This must be stopped!
    It’s simply indecent to leave this nonsense[media=http://http://sl-lopatnikov.livejournal.com/831361.html]
  100. 0
    12 May 2013 13: 04
    shpuntik RU
    http://lleo.me/dnevnik/2013/05/04.html


    “I visited” the link you suggested. Sad! Here is the bottom of two things: either this is the result of Fursenko’s “reform”, or the text was written by GASTARBITERS who did not bother to look more often at the text that they were “painting”!