Military Review

"Anglerfish"

44
"The brave guardsman armor-piercer I.S. Gorbunov in the German captured by him tank. Stalingrad direction 1942 " (Pictured is an Italian-made L6 / 40 tank)



In those years, when I actively communicated with veterans of the past war, for some reason I really wanted to introduce them to our circle - people, which, in theory, should have listened to the stories of the “old men” with reverence. But it was surprising that these attempts were mostly in vain. Even those veterans who rather briskly answered my simple questions about their past, either completely refused to attend such meetings, or still being on it, often closed in on themselves, making it all their appearance that they felt they were superfluous here.

That time everything happened almost the same. Ivan Stepanovich Gorbunov, having heard from me that in Moscow there is some kind of club where amateurs gather stories the warriors once expressed a timid desire to visit him, and I naturally volunteered to conduct it. But, arriving at the club, after half an hour, he became thoughtfully, silent, refused to participate in all the conversations where I tried to engage him, and after another half an hour he decided to bow out. I also bowed.

On the way home, he looked into the commercial tent and bought an inexpensive bottle of vodka there, inviting me to join him in the company for tea. I realized that an elderly person wants to share his impressions of what he saw, and I accepted his invitation with pleasure.

As expected, after coming home and taking “for warm weather,” Ivan Stepanovich started a conversation about what he had seen at the club.

Armor plate platoon Comrade. Krasnov in ambush. District Zheleznovodsk. (Typical staged frame)


“Forgive me for breaking your plans for today.” But I could no longer push on this bunch. What? Did I say that there is bad? Just somehow it was not in itself ... - he snapped out the pack of “crush” from the pack, stretched it with his fingers, lit it from the gas stove and continued:
- I didn’t even go to school for children when they were invited to the holidays. I don’t like it when I have to tell some trite things that don’t correspond at all to what it really was, but also to invent some feats. Special. And war is a difficult thing. Rather, it looks like a long and tedious job, and not on the raids of the ataman Platov with his sabers bald. I myself did not commit feats of war, but I do not like to retell everything that was written in the newspapers, and the stories told by the political politicians, and I don’t know how. It turns out that I have nothing to do at such meetings. And you have a club too. They were waiting for me there any kind of pieces of iron, as if the war was between tanks, airplanes and other machines. And among themselves it was more and more discussed which tank was better, but which aircraft had a stronger gun and a bigger bomb. And the people that these planes fought, in their language, it seems like instead of lice with technology. Even a shame, by golly!

“Remember that mustache in a tweed jacket?” When you told him that I was an armored armor at the front, he already soared up with joy and let me ask, but not about the war, but about what PTR I liked the most? Ugh!

- And I'll take it and tell him that a normal person cannot like any PTR. Well, he was taken aback, and then let me water the numbers, just what an encyclopedia. And I knew from the numbers where he was going. He himself suggested to me the answer to the question he asked. He wanted me to confirm that our PTRs were the strongest in the world. The boy he, though, in sight, and exchanged the fourth dozen. He still didn’t understand that the Germans didn’t fire up the PTRs themselves! So that!

- Well, I ask him why he compares our PTR with German, which they only had at the very beginning of the war? Unfair it is. We at the beginning of the war, then the PTR did not exist! Copies from the Germans of the same caliber 7,92, or chambered for DShK, appeared by the Moscow battle. And in 1942, when fourteen-and-a-half went into battle, the Germans had a heavy two-centimeter “buchs” that our tanks were full of holes. And their old 39 of the year has also changed. The caliber remained the same, and the length was reduced, and instead of tiny little bullets, he began armor-piercing bullets on our tanks with grenades. And more fragmentation too. Very useful against machine guns and infantry grenades. Here are the benefits. The gun is lighter, shorter than ours, and God forbid armor! And the fire inside the tank carries. All thirty-three fun. And what is the PTDD fragmentation? No!

Armored workers during classes. Spring 1943


“So if we figure out, our Germans did not outperform our PTRs.” And they made them because in the summer of forty-first we had all our guns, while we had dragged from the border, abandoned. So we had to our women, but the old men with boys were hastily guns with a long barrel, which we called "fishing rods", to master. They are easier and cheaper than guns. But the German PTR against ours were much more than bad, as long as the multiply-charged "Faustpatron" did not work out for them. So it turns out that fools are all your “strawberries”, that they are trying to decide which piece of hardware is better than which. Verily they say that woe is of the mind. Excessive. I would add that crazy, idleness multiplied.

Ivan Stepanovich drank the second one, and, following his gaze as I dealt with my dose, pushed open a can of "kilka in tomato" and a piece of bread with a half onion on it. Then he shook the last “priminu” out of the crumpled pack, stretched it with his fingers and lit it, with his back to the wall of the refrigerator.

“I don't remember if I told you; How did I get to the front? Not? Well listen! I started the war in years. Still, twenty-six was. But I did not get to the front in the autumn of forty-first. We bombed our train somewhere near Smolensk. Got to the hospital, which was evacuated to Kazan. It was already in the winter. And by the spring some commanders came to us and let's agitate the convalescents to go to the commanders to learn. Well, I succumbed. It is better to command! In my years, I didn’t want to go under the direction of the “green letehi”. Well, I got on the platoon commander of the battalion artillery.

- They taught in the same place near Kazan. Of the hardware "Bobby" (76-mm - "shelves") and "goodbye, homeland" ("sorokapyatki") there are dead horses with elderly riders. Shells - only training, wooden in an iron sleeve, and shoot real oh how hunting! In general, it is hungry, cold, but tolerable. In the fall, we had to become junior lieutenants, but here in May the Fritz lupanul us for the first number near Kharkov and flooded to Stalingrad, as if by notes. Well, the Supreme order issued all cadets to the front as commanders of guns and gunners, not platoon commanders.

- Got to the front in June. The division is in full readiness, but there is no artillery! Just battalion and regimental. True, there are even a little more mortars than it should be, but there are no guns! We mocked like that for a week, and then the order came to receive the materiel! Well, let's go and get it ... Only not two guns, but six anti-tank rifles - two self-loading and four one-shot guns. They organized two armor-piercing offices. Mine and Sergeant Akimov. And as there were no guns, no. This is how I became, according to the documents, the gun commander, and in fact the “chest of drawers” ​​and the first number of ATGM at the same time. Just that buttonholes with guns.

- However, we did not grieve too much. In the neighboring battalion there was the same story, and indeed in the division, God forbid, a third of the cannons of the required number were available. The country is all in the evacuation! What other guns! And thanks for the PTR.

- It is clear that we were thrown on the study of the new materiel. Well, we read some kind of bespectacled worn piece of paper on a long lecture that the PTR is strong weapons in the fight against German tanks. That it pierces the armor in such a way that the Forty-Five was never dreamed of. What to mask it is simple, that it is easier and a whole bunch of other amenities. Then they told about the exploits of armor-raisers near Moscow ... What am I saying to you about this? I suppose I read such propaganda ravings more than once! But then we believed in all this.

- And then there were firing. And trial, and test together. They gave us four rounds on our nose and to the ravine, where our burnt T-26 was standing, it was unclear from what. According to him and the bullet. Measured out 300 meters. The fire! Got it? It fits! Struck? Well done! Chalk out your hits and pass the gun to the next one! But not all fell and not all punched. It turns out that even the old T-26 had to be able to pierce from the “strong weapon”! Doubt here has disassembled me, whether this “fishing rod” is so good, as we called the PTR between us, as it is written about in the admonition, and all leaflets. And then there is still foreman Eremenko mumbles like a spell: “In battle, son, you let the German loblizhe into the rest! Do not hurry!

- Do not hurry !!! This is when you bespectacled already buzzed all the ears that it is better to destroy their tanks from a long distance. What tank near crush you!

Guardsman armored soldier P. Makarenko in a wounded German tank. Stalingrad, for example, summer 1942 (in the photo - Italian tank L-6 / 40)


- At first, there was little work in the battles. We are not even involved. On manpower from us proku - zero without sticks! Then the advance of the battalion. Here and we found work - the suppression of machine guns instead of artillery. As the “samovars” were played, the “maxims” were sticking, the Slavs “Urya-I” were sucked in, so let us grandly and nobly let us fart through the flashes of their machine guns, praying the god that this pulsating flame would go out. But miracles do not happen. At dusk from half a kilometer to get into lobeshnik machine gunner from PTR with an open sight it is impossible. That continued the lead rain for the brothers-Slavs.

- In short, they came like a day or something, then, of course, they exhausted themselves and buried in the ground! Waiting for reinforcements for the development of the offensive. Only the Germans arrived ahead. In the evening, there was a buzz and clang at their side, like deaf thunder, and with a whine. “Tanks,” the “grandfathers” explained to us, “tomorrow you guys will have work!” And we already knew that it would be hot the next day.

- So it happened. First came the "birds" who bombarded us with bombs, then the "Hans" played. Zahavkali tears howitzers. All war did not like this music. Yes!

“And then their tanks flooded us.” Little. Six pieces in total. The thing on "angler" - nonsense! We will cope! We drive our “rods”, choosing the moment for the shot. The goals are divided as agreed. Left chose Vitka-Tatar, neighbor - Romka-Permyak, right I got by lot. Another three tanks for the share of armored Akimov. Yes!

- Only one tank for a gun and it was something. And not some “tigers”, but ordinary T-3 and “Prague”. Your "experts" laugh, go! In their opinion, the T-3 should have been pierced through and through from any distance from the first shot. Yes, and we also thought so at first. They shot from three hundred, as they taught us, and after each shot they were sure that the tank was kaput. An, he walked as well as the feathers himself and did not guess that he was kaput to him, only he swept the terrain with machine guns.

“After the tenth shot, I even began to pray to myself, so that at least one of them would catch fire, and they seemed to be conspirators.” What is there? Then they cut us up under the nut. And the whole battalion kaput would come, we shoots. But then the help came, they were waiting. They threw the Fritz back to the original ones.

- How many of their tanks we burnt, you ask? One and burned. Few? Yes, then he showed me for happiness. His first "Courage" for him and received. Only if I knocked him something? Who knows now, maybe I am. I shot him too. Only to receive a medal all one except me was nobody. Other; armored rifles are either killed or seriously injured.

- So was my first fight. And the battalion to redevelop. And you say - PTR!

The commander of the platoon A. Krasikov firing at the plane. North West of Stalingrad, January 1943


Ivan Stepanovich with one sip finished the last glass and forged the remnants of kilka on the fork. Then he lit up the extinct "Accept" and continued in thought:

- And then we studied. Yes ... While stomping to Stalingrad - they studied all the time. Eight defensive battles, and after each battle - armor-raisers to write off. And God pardoned me. Three tanks recorded in my account. Yes, two tanks captured we Makarenko and almost serviceable. Italian tanks something. And macaroni - fighters are weak. We then for the "Red Star" correspondent from Moscow clicked against the background of the tank. Vaughn and a photo for you to prove. So somewhere in the winter we also learned how to beat them from the “fishing rods”. Not only us. And the infantry units also learned. Grenades. But it was more difficult for them than for us.

- But so far I did not get into the fighter brigade in the forty-third, where there was a lot of PTR, and even with artillery, there was little sense from the fishermen.

- Why I do not like PTR? And why should you love him? Long, heavy, with an open sight and even on a bipod. Fights at shots so that the shoulder after the fight sometimes completely fell off. And what's the point? Aim as it should - get the hell. Snuggling - only with his hands, though not on weight.

- armor penetration? Do you know what it is? Or do you, like your theoretical friends, think that it is enough to turn a hole in his side in order to destroy a tank? So what if he had a hole? He is not a ship, and he will not go to the bottom. As without a hole the battle was fought, so it will continue with the hole. Does anybody from the crew get a runny nose from a draft ... Yes ... You need to break a tank or a mechanism to break the armor, or to injure the crew, or it is best to set it on fire for the pigs! Here you are from the "fishing rod" and bite him time after time. Sometimes after a fight with a dozen holes in it you count, but he crawls to himself, as if nothing had happened, and does not think to burn. And then some reporter gives these holes for the triumph of our weapon, and fairy tales appear for the kids that our weapon is so powerful that it easily makes a sneak from the German. And if he had caught fire after the first, how many lives would have been saved? That is why I say that the best anti-tank rifle tank is an anti-tank gun. Or “farewell, Motherland”, and even better “fifty seven” or “seven seven”. Snaryadik something they have more solid. Strikes armor and brings with it a cloud of fragments, or gases of rupture. That breaks or ignites something.

- And from the PTR only point-blank and beat on the selected places ... On the tanks, for example. So they let them those who have stronger nerves. Then they got to the right place. We had in the forty-third armored striker Maxim Malov. Pieces of ten, not twelve tanks were written on it. He was even introduced to the Hero, but he got drunk on some face, he was eliminated from all victories, and was deprived of awards and into the penalty company. Yes ... There, you see, and he disappeared. Why am I talking about him? And besides, he never opened fire on tanks further than 100 meters. And only in the side of the gas tank; or on the rims of the drive wheel. And not on the caterpillar, as your "club" teach. Carrying with me a whole pack of leaflets of all kinds, how to destroy German tanks, the shemki himself drew. Practiced on the padded. Oh, it's not so easy - to get to the right place of a moving tank from an open sight, and not even from a hard carriage, but from a bipod!

- Somehow it is customary to talk about the small size of the MFR as advantages. Yes, not at all - the same “goodbye, motherland” size in a combat situation is no more, because no self-respecting artilleryman puts a cannon on a tank-hazard without digging it properly. Yes, and the calculations of the PTR only in the movies on the tank-dangerous will fall on a flat place under a bush, without entrenching. So it turns out that in battle everything is not the same as in a museum.

“And the gun has another huge trump card.” Do not guess what I mean? Yes about the shield! Exactly what about the shield. Behind the shield you feel calmer. You can direct slowly. Machine gun bullets, fragments, clods of earth takes on a shield, and this is very important. From the MTR, how did you have to shoot? You will emerge from the trench, quickly take aim, you will fire, you throw the gun and to the bottom of the trench, while the tanker from the machine gun shoots you down, or the sniper turns on. Then you will wake up, again quickly you will fire and again to the bottom, if still alive. Heroes are not enough for you? So I say that not heroic prevailed in the war. Before heroic days, when your poppy is open to all the winds, and you only have a helmet on it, the sense with which is that with a goat of milk. The Germans won on their heavy BTR "Buchs" - they put a shield. Even I remember the faustpatrons, they had them with a shield and on wheels.

- And when we flooded to the west, the PTR was almost helpless. Therefore, in the autumn of 1943, our fighter brigade was transformed into an IPTAP and armed us with “goodbye, homelands”, with a long barrel. Here I loved this mechanic. What? Is weak? Yes, not at all! In comparison with what is rather weak? Before the MTR - just a beast, not a gun. The armor-piercing is very good, yes, plus a fragmentation shell, a shield, but the tip is smooth, but the shoulder does not hurt, but the mehtyag is a noble - “Fords” and “Bantams” with “Jeeps”. It’s not our service here, but a genuine sanatorium ...

We talked about the war for a long time. The bottle on the table was empty for a long time, a can of rubies was wiped dry with bread crusts, but the conversation did not end. But he no longer affected PTR.
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  1. Aeneas
    Aeneas April 22 2013 08: 00 New
    0
    Propaganda worked, and people had to be given confidence. Hence the stereotypes that turned into post-war films about the war, burning armada of German tanks with Molotov cocktails, the same PTR, covering the tank’s viewing slots with all kinds of covers, in the end - Panfilov’s with grenades at the rate of tanks ...
    1. Aeneas
      Aeneas April 22 2013 09: 58 New
      +5
      I am not against propaganda stereotypes: they burned the tanks with bottles, shot them with rifles, threw grenades and threw pillboxes over their bodies. Really heroes! only almost all posthumously. And simple black-bone soldiers survived, who did not chase awards, but routinely beat the enemy to survive on their own, give their friends a chance to survive, save their families ... Anti-tank artillery, and even not their tanks, destroyed more than all Fritz tanks. And the gunners suffered very much during the period 41-43, when the Germans advanced. When ours were advancing, a relative sanatorium arrived, about which the veteran was talking ... We here in Kiev had such a legendary anti-tank artillery general Petrov, he died a couple of years ago. There are a lot of legends about him, and about military jokes went around. Both hands were torn off to the man in battle, they gave him a Hero, and they commissated. And when the Star was handed to him, according to legend, Stalin asked the armless Petrov: Ask for what you want! Petrov replied: I want to be in the army all my life! And this armless lieutenant remained in service, and received a second Hero near Berlin (he had already grown in rank). And no one dared to dismiss him until his death, for Stalin ordered! Petrov had a residence-headquarters near Kiev, and an honorary post of deputy commander (in the Union - PrikVO, in Ukraine - Missile forces and artillery).
      1. Denzel13
        Denzel13 April 24 2013 00: 01 New
        0
        Thank you for the article. Good memories of a worthy person. By the way, there is such a fact - craftsmen from PTR managed to shoot down planes. And not a single one.
    2. Vovka levka
      Vovka levka April 22 2013 22: 46 New
      +4
      Quote: Aeneas
      Propaganda worked, and people had to be given confidence. Hence the stereotypes that turned into post-war films about the war, burning armada of German tanks with Molotov cocktails, the same PTR, covering the tank’s viewing slots with all kinds of covers, in the end - Panfilov’s with grenades at the rate of tanks ...


      Through this cheer patriotism, a sea of ​​people perished. Underestimating the enemy and overestimating their capabilities leads, at best, to unjustified human losses, and often to defeat.
      The commander, the soldier who is fighting, must clearly know what combat capabilities his weapons have and the enemy's weaknesses. Ignorance of these things leads to improper tactics of warfare and to unjustified human losses.
      The article is excellent, more of these. And to veterans, ordinary people who survived this is our bow.
    3. Denis
      Denis April 23 2013 02: 54 New
      0
      Quote: Aeneas
      panfilovtsy with grenades at the rate of tanks ...
      Panfilov’s also reassured part of the tanks with anti-tank guns, not all with grenades and cocktails
  2. svp67
    svp67 April 22 2013 08: 34 New
    28
    Thank you - simple guys who have become HEROES. We will be damned if we forget what you have done ...
    1. unclevad
      unclevad April 22 2013 11: 03 New
      +1
      "Yes, there were people these days ..." Simple guys who honestly did their duty. Thanks you.
    2. Rider
      Rider April 22 2013 11: 46 New
      11
      We will be damned if we forget what you have done ...


      but actually WHAT WILL WE?
      it seems to me personally that we ALREADY.
      therefore, he fell upon the USSR / Russia.
      the grave misfortune of Gorbachev, Yeltsinism, and current liberalism.

      we exchanged the memory of UNIVERSAL misfortune, and of UNIVERSAL courage and dedication, for jeans and chewing gum.

      Without a state-building idea, we risk repeating the fate of Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya, and others.

      there’s time to throw stones
      IT'S TIME TO GATHER THEM.
      1. kaprall
        kaprall April 22 2013 15: 14 New
        +1
        Why agitation? Whoever was taught in his youth to respect the elders and remember only the good, he will not forget his ancestors who survived the war. Yes, and after ...
  3. hohryakov066
    hohryakov066 April 22 2013 08: 57 New
    +6
    I never cease to be amazed at the courage of the soldiers of that war! Having a weapon that was not always suitable, they nevertheless managed to destroy enemy equipment! But the fact that veterans do not like to talk about it is the true truth. Most of those with whom I had a chance to communicate tried to transfer the conversation to another topic. Probably even remembering this nightmare is hard.
  4. omsbon
    omsbon April 22 2013 08: 59 New
    14
    These are the stories of ordinary soldiers the most interesting, from them you will learn something that is not written about in novels.
    Glory and honor to WWII veterans! We must preserve the memory of their deed for posterity!
  5. Bigriver
    Bigriver April 22 2013 09: 19 New
    +7
    "... ordinary T-3s and" Prague. "Your" experts "will laugh, go!

    There is little funny.
    “Three” is a very playful little tank, with a reservation even slightly better than that of the “four”.
    I recalled one memoir.
    At dusk, our armor-piercers fired heavily on a pair of T-70s returning from intelligence.
    They did not pay attention to screams and mats from tanks. Tankers jumped out of the tanks, went around the armor-fighting from the flank and hung them to the fullest.
    After the educational process, in the 70s, a dozen and a half cores were found. The tanks were on the move.
  6. Avenger711
    Avenger711 April 22 2013 09: 19 New
    +4
    And I take it and tell him that any PTR normal person can not like


    It is enough to recall the local topics about the PTR, when anyone who pointed out that the PTR were almost useless immediately went wrong, despite the official statistics and orders of the commanders, who, if there were not enough guns, had to somehow make people die and stop the tanks, albeit at the cost loss 10: 1. Tales of armored personnel carriers with a dozen burnt tanks are included.

    - It is clear that we were thrown to study a new materiel. Well, he gave us some bespectacled man on a worn piece of paper for a long lecture that the PTR is a powerful weapon in the fight against German tanks. That it pierces the armor so that the "forty-five" and never dreamed of. What to disguise it is simple, that it is easier and a bunch of all sorts of amenities. Then they talked about the exploits of armor-piercers near Moscow ... But what am I to you about this? I myself have probably read such propaganda nonsense more than once! But then we believed in all this.


    Tue this is the worst propaganda that makes sense during the war, but for which after the war it is necessary to imprison, as a betrayal of the motherland, because by the destructive impact it is quite comparable.

    But not all hit and not all pierced. It turns out that even the old T-26 had to be able to penetrate from a "strong weapon"!


    Obviously for everyone who is at least a little familiar with the performance characteristics of these little girls, except for the unfortunate patriots.

    At dusk from a half a kilometer it’s impossible to get a machine gunner from a PTR from an open sight to get into a lobeshnik.


    20-25 mm could in principle be scratched by a fragment, although in practice even a 45 mm gun with a projectile weighing more than kg requires almost a direct hit and almost all of the fragments fly either into the ground, or in the direction of the projectile’s flight, i.e. a little to the left or to the right and the firing point will not be affected.

    Other; armor-piercers are either killed or seriously injured.


    Read the same,. Such a result was typical even in the 42nd year, when Pz-III were still met en masse.

    Italian tanks


    If it could be called a tank at that time.

    Armor penetration? Do you know what that is?


    In fact, 95% do not know this here. Although if a weapon on the passport pierces, for example, 50 mm of armor, then this means that in tests for horseradish it knows which armor, an armor plate of such thickness penetrated with a probability of 50%. In general, how lucky, and the consequences can be worse than just the annoying "did not break."

    And not the caterpillar, as your "club" teach.


    Unlike WoT, where point-blank shooting on a geometrically absolutely horizontal map is a common occurrence, and the howitzers constantly blow up tanks, in real life it’s very difficult to remove a caterpillar from a tank even with a shell. I can’t imagine how PTR can do this; you will damage a maximum of ONE truck. Our 41st complained about the T-34, that the caterpillar is weak, takes any projectile, that is, damaging the caterpillar with a 37 mm or even 50 mm gun at that time was considered a constructive defect, since there are no such complaints on HF, it’s evident to its gusli I didn’t care about farts. And the guns are more serious line of fire as it would be higher.
    1. Bigriver
      Bigriver April 22 2013 09: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: Avenger711
      ... even a 45 mm cannon with a projectile weighing more than kg requires almost a direct hit and almost all fragments fly either to the ground, or in the direction of the projectile,

      ... if a weapon on the passport pierces, for example, 50 mm of armor, then this means that in tests for horseradish knows what kind of armor, an armored plate of this thickness made its way with a probability of 50%


      Ellipse on the front and back.

      A bit wrong, for penetration.
      Our and German criteria were very different.
      So, according to the German system, armor was considered to be broken if 50% of the shells penetrated it, and according to the Soviet system (after 1940), penetration was required in at least 75% of cases.
      In the USSR, it was believed that the armor was broken only if all the fragments of the BS (without explosives) were behind the rear surface of the armor plate.

      Well, the distance is important. As a rule, for Soviet tank, divisional, and anti-tank guns (howitzers, regiments, it doesn’t count), the thickness of the punched plate by 500 meters was approximately equal to the caliber.
      Much, of course, depended on the quality of the BS. So, a 45-ka, at the beginning of the war, did not take the equivalent of a 500 mm plate for 45 meters.
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 April 22 2013 10: 22 New
        0
        There will be practically no backward, in a shell, unlike an abandoned hand grenade, the speed is huge, and fragments fly along its vector. Well, if there is a stone behind, then a hail of shells from an anti-aircraft gun will also knock out a bunch of crumbs, which is very dangerous, ricochets, and in a clean field for some T-26 with 45 mm everything is sad. In general, there is an interesting point, guns with a caliber from 45 to 75-76 in history are quite rare, well, 57 unless it is sometimes found, and often like an anti-aircraft gun. Apparently 45-50 is still light enough for transportation, and 75-76 is minimally necessary for any adequately damaging action against the simplest shelters.

        A bit wrong, for penetration.


        ATP.
        1. Bigriver
          Bigriver April 22 2013 11: 46 New
          +1
          Quote: Avenger711
          There will be practically no backward, in a shell, unlike an abandoned hand grenade, the speed is huge, and fragments fly along its vector.
          Apparently 45-50 is still light enough for transportation, ...

          Yes, more on the front and forward.
          Here is what Combined Tactics says:
          "... When firing from guns, as well as from mortars and military vehicles at short range, the ellipse is elongated in the direction of fire, and when firing at long range the ellipse becomes wider."

          45-ka (53-K) was obtained as a result of superimposing the maximum possible barrel (Soviet ship) on the carriage purchased from Germany Pak-35/36.
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 April 22 2013 12: 57 New
            0
            Well, according to speed. The mortar ellipse in theory should be close to a circle.

            A 45 mm tank seems to be simply drilled to the limit of 37 mm with the same charge, just to increase the mass of a landmine. But by themselves, such small guns seem to owe the proliferation of tanks, while in artillery the main calibres from 75 began.
    2. Gahprom
      Gahprom April 22 2013 10: 33 New
      0
      It’s enough to recall the local topics about the PTR, when anyone who indicated that the PTR were almost useless were immediately bombarded,
      it may be that we have nothing bad by definition, but if something German is better, you are a damned German!
      1. Rider
        Rider April 22 2013 12: 12 New
        0
        You know guys, I agree with the two of you (well, almost)
        But will it not be worse if the falcons / Rezunov ravings massively begin to replicate?
        or just such a trench truth like here?

        because then very many will say, AND WHEN NINE OFFICIAL LOSSES NINE?

        After all, we have very many extrapolating 41g losses to all other war years.

        there is a wonderful article about PROPAGANDA:
        http://oko-planet.su/first/179737-pobedit-russkih-nelzya-poetomu-nado-unichtozhi
        t.html

        there was still a wonderful speech of one intelligent stupid one, but it was obscene to the limit, and was removed from the resource.
        the modera saved by me will not be missed.
        1. Strategy
          Strategy April 22 2013 20: 31 New
          0
          Quote: Rider
          http://oko-planet.su/first/179737-pobedit-russkih-nelzya-poetomu-nado-unichtozhi

          The link for some reason did not work.
    3. Normal
      Normal April 22 2013 17: 44 New
      0
      Quote: Avenger711
      Tue this is the worst propaganda that makes sense during the war, but for which after the war it is necessary to imprison, as a betrayal of the motherland, because by the destructive impact it is quite comparable.

      Unfortunately, there is an abundance of urya-patriotic whine and hatless speeches even now. Anyone who is doubtful of the exceptional, "unparalleled" qualities of our equipment or the tactical training of our Armed Forces is ready to plant junkies for treason.
      To prove that with our enthusiasm we disarm ourselves before a future war is not possible for fools.
      As we were not ready for the last war, we would not be ready for the next. Only the haters will not admit their guilt when.
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 April 22 2013 20: 10 New
        0
        In general, they were ready for the last war.
        1. Zynaps
          Zynaps April 22 2013 21: 02 New
          0
          despite the fact that the coveted tank corps were not formed, the formations lacked road transport, repair and engineering services, and 70% of the tanks were either outdated or exhausted armored vehicles? Well, the ammunition for the troops of the first echelon lingered somewhere in the depths of the country. not to mention the fact that the soldiers with seven years behind them were in short supply, and the Defense Ministry until the summer of 42 could not even provide all the soldiers with personal documents ...

          here is somehow the conclusions of the authors of the work "1941 - lessons and conclusions" will be more respectable. due to validity.
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 April 23 2013 00: 09 New
            0
            From the state in the 30th year to the state in the 41st year, progress is super-huge. And when the first signal rang when the Germans invaded Poland, they began to prepare for a fight, in particular, the army was increased 2 times.
            It is pointless to consider tanks, the Germans had nothing stronger than the BT-7 and T-26, another thing is the estimates of the required amount of equipment for these tanks, which was greatly underestimated. By the way, the Germans made a similar mistake and after the Polish campaign they reduced the number of tanks in the division from 300 to 200.
            A mess in war is usual simply by definition of war.
          2. Alex
            Alex 31 August 2013 22: 59 New
            +1
            Quote: Zynaps
            70% of the tanks were either outdated or exhausted armored vehicles

            Well, as much as possible ... These nonsense from Gareev and his comrades are already sitting in the liver. The German Pz I, with its ridiculous characteristics, is a terrible force and the newest (Ausf A has been produced since July 1934, Ausf B with 1936). Well, the Pz II is generally powerful - he even has a gun. And the rate of fire like a machine gun. And terribly modern: Ausf A, Ausf B and Ausf C began to be produced in 1936-37, well, right before the start of Barbarossa. I am already silent about their number. Don’t get the Czech Hans “Prague”, it’s not yet known what they would have fought for.

            Well, and our BT-7 - this, of course, is nonsense (apparently it’s not worth talking about the rest). And the resource was developed (by their own releases already from the 1937 and all 5000 pieces with a hook), and the weapons are nonsense, and in general Russians are stupid people and cowards.

            Well, the ammunition for the troops of the first echelon lingered somewhere in the depths of the country

            Yes, just for the first echelon, not in the depths of the country, but all at the border, then the Germans got it.

            Learn the story, dear.
    4. old rocket man
      old rocket man April 22 2013 18: 32 New
      +2
      Quote: Avenger711
      Tue this is the worst propaganda that makes sense during the war, but for which after the war it is necessary to imprison, as a betrayal of the motherland, because by the destructive impact it is quite comparable.

      Your comment from this very propaganda is no different, just torn off from reality, these are all theories.
      But in practice the soldier is fighting not by what he wants, but by what they gave, but give, as a rule, not what is needed, but what is.
      So you have to “turn on” propaganda, but how without it you make a soldier believe what is not there?
      If the opponent is stronger than you, this does not mean that the struggle is unnecessary and meaningless.
      1. seafarer
        seafarer April 24 2013 20: 27 New
        0
        Propaganda is needed - this is without options.
        And to determine whether it is “bad” or not, it is possible only after everything for the sake of which it was actually carried out has already ended. And even that is not always the case.

        I recall how in the 87th we had to go on military service in the Indian Ocean. They had to go through the Suez Canal. About 40 sailors and foremen were selected for the PDCC — all Komsomol members, candidates for membership of the CPSU, and excellent students of BP and PP. We learned to throw grenades, shoot AKM at targets in water and at shallow depths.
        But besides counteracting "evil underwater adversaries" one of the tasks was avoiding aboard a ship their colleagues. For the simple reason - none of those who were caught overboard to the shore were supposed to get alive.
        I know for sure: if I had to shoot, my hand would not flinch. I was ready. Fortunately - did not have to.

        That was our propaganda. "Wacky" or not? In any case - effective. But she was needed like that - I still can’t give myself an answer.
  7. Avenger711
    Avenger711 April 22 2013 09: 19 New
    +2
    Ten pieces, or twelve tanks, were written on it. He was even introduced to the Hero, and he drunk his face drunk on some flyer, removed all his victories from him, and deprived him of his awards in the penalty company. Yes ... There, you see, and he disappeared. Why am I talking about him? And besides, he never opened fire on tanks beyond 100 meters. And only on board the gas tank; or on the rims of the drive wheel.


    That is, apart from the fragmented ambush tactics, when you sit and don’t betray yourself, even if the tank prevents the infantry and the ground from crossing the trench line, there is nothing left. We take into account the fact that after breaking the drive wheel the tank will only be stopped, then it is necessary to finish it, moreover, specifically, the tank does not turn off from the battle.

    Here, it’s not our service that has gone, but a genuine sanatorium ...


    If the "goodbye homeland" sanatorium ...
  8. Hyppopotut
    Hyppopotut April 22 2013 09: 24 New
    +3
    Five with a plus to the author!
    In cinema, but in books, more and more heroics ...
    And few people know about hard military labor ... I was still in school, I could not understand why our teachers, veterans, do not like to talk about their war. And I had six such teachers. And no matter who you ask, everyone is silent, and even if they tell you something, then about their colleagues. And the chest is a complete iconostasis! The only thing I learned from them is that war is a terrible thing ... My generation remembers that huge number of cripples that flooded our cities ...
    And disability was given to them only when they were too weak. My grandfather, who was left without a leg in Finnish, plowed for another 18 years (both literally and figuratively) until he retired by age ...
    Once again, thanks for the truth!
  9. Nayhas
    Nayhas April 22 2013 10: 01 New
    +5
    Somehow fate brought me together with a gunner who was a knight of the Order of Glory, began to fight in 1942, went through the whole war, an unusually gloomy and taciturn man, survived all relatives from the apartment, lived alone in a three-room empty apartment. He asked how many tanks he knocked out, he says maybe five, I say something little for the whole war ... In response, an unusually hard look, not evil, but overwhelming, he says, try to hit him ... I’m still ashamed of the question.
  10. Avenger711
    Avenger711 April 22 2013 10: 10 New
    +4
    and he drunk his face in some kind of flying, he took all his victories from him, and deprived him of his awards in the penalty company.


    Unlike modern ones, a veteran distinguishes between a penal company and a penal battalion, where only officers could send.
  11. Gahprom
    Gahprom April 22 2013 10: 26 New
    0
    Just one tank per gun and that was it. And not some “tigers”, but ordinary T-3s and “Pragues”. Your "experts" laugh, go! In their opinion, we should have pierced the T-3 through and through from any distance from the first shot. Yes, and we also thought so at first. They shot from three hundred, as we were taught, and after each shot they were sure that the tank was a caput. But he walked as well as himself, and did not realize that he was kaput to him, only he swept the area with machine guns.

    Why don't I like PTR? And why love him? The longest, heaviest, with an open sight, and even on the bipod. He fights when shots so that his shoulder after the battle sometimes completely falls off. What's the point? Aim properly - get the hell out. The aim is only with hands, at least not in weight.

    - Armor penetration? Do you know what that is? Or do you, like your theoretical friends, think that to destroy a tank it is enough to make a hole in its side? What if he had a hole? He is not a ship, and he won’t go to the bottom of it.

    What a fine fellow a veteran, doesn’t distort and does not poison stories, that through three tigers the PTR flashes.
    Young neopatriots, lovers of red minuses, for some reason they are sure that the German ge tanks, Germans did not know how to fight, and the tank sewn through the PTR through and through.
    no, the children were not doing as well as in the movies.
    and PTR from hopelessness rather IMHO.
    1. Rider
      Rider April 22 2013 12: 17 New
      +1
      yet you go to the echo, to the rain.
      there is such a truth in kilometers.

      and here mostly adequate people are sitting.
    2. Cynic
      Cynic April 22 2013 17: 08 New
      0
      Quote: Gahpro
      Young neopatriots, lovers of red cons, for some reason they are sure that the tanks of German ge, Germans, and did not know how to fight,

      Very reluctantly, or rather through gnashing of teeth, any military historian will answer _ And what about the highly professional military personnel from the Reich, and by what instructions and military ideas did they crush Europe ?!
      And the civilian historian is dissatisfied, if he wants, to tell how it began and how our industry developed then.
      recourse
    3. Zynaps
      Zynaps April 22 2013 21: 21 New
      +5
      Quote: Gahpro
      and PTR from hopelessness rather IMHO.


      well, like, experts already lost sight of the fact that on the battlefield there are still (and massively enough) lightly armored targets that are completely amazed by the PTR. that PTRs were willingly used in assault operations by fighters of the ShISB (r) and assault squads in urban battles (the defense of Stalingrad is an example), that the PTRs were in great demand among the partisans, because the PTRs allowed long-range damage to the boiler of a steam locomotive, fuel tanks, airplanes on airfield, set fire to the enemy’s ammunition and fuel. and for some reason, the Cuban special forces still perfectly prepared for the war in the jungle carry with them 12.7 and 14.5 Mambi-2 trunks.

      also take into account that only one opinion of the veteran is given. because it was also possible to hear completely opposite opinions from well-deserved people who were not inclined to tell stories about the dashing cutting of enemy tanks with a cavalry saber.

      there is clearly tank fear in the story of man. in enemy memories, she is also present. just do not forget that, with the lack of PTA, the fight against tanks was turned on a different plane. somehow forgot that not only artillery and armor-piercing soldiers fought with tanks, but also engineering units with the help of hollows, blockages, minefields, escarpments and counter-escarpments in dangerous areas. that the Germans very much appreciated the Soviet rail "hedgehog", which was poked in Berlin and Koenigsberg before their assault.
    4. seafarer
      seafarer April 24 2013 20: 34 New
      0
      Quote: Gahpro
      Young neopatriots, lovers of red cons, ...

      I think it's better neopatriotsThan neo-nazis.
      And cons, though unpleasant, but you can survive.
  12. Stas57
    Stas57 April 22 2013 10: 35 New
    +1
    Very interesting.
    Thank you.
    the opinion that the forty-eyed beast is in skillful hands, I also met with Drabkin.
  13. NektoRU
    NektoRU April 22 2013 10: 35 New
    +2
    I was still a boy when my grandfather told me how during the German tank attack our infantry left its positions and retreated. I don’t remember the details anymore, but according to my grandfather, the regiment commander (it seems his surname was Raftopulo or Ravtopulo, later he died without knowing about the presentation to the Hero), they explained from above lucidly what happens for leaving positions without an order. So grandfather, being the commander of a mortar battery, said that he was shocked when he saw how our infantry climbed tanks ... into the bayonet! That the Germans’s nerves could not stand and they threw materiel on the battlefield. As a result, our positions were repulsed. Therefore, first of all, strength is in the man himself, in his spirit, and only then in arms ... Thanks to the author for the article!
  14. DmitriRazumov
    DmitriRazumov April 22 2013 10: 47 New
    +7
    And war is a difficult thing. Rather, it looks like a long and tedious job, and not the raids of Ataman Platov with sabers bald.

    This is the key phrase in the article. Unfortunately, the replication of military images fanned by some kind of romantic halo does not give a real idea of ​​this bitter and difficult time, which is associated with millions of losses of the best people, serious wounds, leading to incapacity, hunger, cold, illness ... Victory came at a high price , our grandfathers, performing this daily hard, dirty work, they defeated the Germans, endured, squeezed them, transferred the ridge to the German military machine.
    1. Jurkovs
      Jurkovs April 22 2013 17: 54 New
      0
      Konstantin Simonov had a series of television shows about each of the living full cavaliers of the Order of Glory. A wonderful cycle was, sorry do not repeat. So Simonov came to the conclusion that war is a very hard work.
      1. Strategy
        Strategy April 22 2013 20: 40 New
        +1
        Precisely, I remember, there was such a cycle. There, one anti-tanker recalled the war. When Simonov asked him how many tanks he had knocked out during the whole war, he answered: "Seven." And Simonov, apparently assuming that this answer was disappointing to many, explained that if every gunner of an anti-tank gun had shot down 7 tanks, then the Germans would no longer have tanks ...
    2. Kostya pedestrian
      Kostya pedestrian April 28 2013 15: 28 New
      0
      It is necessary to show every dirty detail of the war, but only the one that will further push young people to the desire to defend their homeland, their country, their people.

      But all these, even if they are true, details about pieces of meat, about the horror of hand-to-hand fighting, only intimidate young people, and, God forbid, the need to defend your country, all these subprograms will work, fright and panic are already practical defeat. Those. Tactical intelligence victory of a potential enemy.

      And I also want to note that the bandits do the dirty work, and the soldier with honor endures all the hardships and deprivations of the Army service, following the order, serving the Fatherland.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic April 28 2013 18: 57 New
        0
        Quote: Kostya pedestrian
        It is necessary to show every dirty detail of the war, but only the one that will further push young people to the desire to defend their homeland, their country, their people.

        Hmm.
        How beautiful it is twisted _ young people will even more push the desire to defend their homeland
        Sorry Konstantin, but in fact you are a demagogue.
        So, go Konstantin, go and go, judging by the nickname the usual thing for you.
        1. Kostya pedestrian
          Kostya pedestrian April 30 2013 14: 51 New
          0
          A demagogue is a person who says one thing and does another.

          And my comment on this article boiled down to the fact that the tendency of the past 20 years has been in constant, and often, in an unjust criticism of Soviet weapons. Everything was the worst with us - it was not people who won, not the rear, not the command, not the Soviet scientists and inventors, but “6dl0”, which “walked” to the slaughter by the millions of NKVD. According to your words so what? I never agree with that!

          As for me personally, I respect the Russian manufacturer very much, and appreciate the Russian markets and your help, and try, if possible, not only in word, but also in deed to support the Russian manufacturer.

          And the constant nagging that everything is bad with you resembles a person who sits on a bitch, and this bitch cuts itself.
  15. Kars
    Kars April 22 2013 11: 45 New
    0
    Tank fear / training
    1. Kars
      Kars April 22 2013 11: 47 New
      0
      _____________ Fritz
      1. Kars
        Kars April 22 2013 11: 47 New
        0
        ________________________
  16. kind
    kind April 22 2013 12: 36 New
    +3
    In my school, the military commander was a front-line soldier (by the way alive to this day, health to him), he was the commander of a tank platoon on Kursk. After many years, in a private conversation, he spoke about anti-tank rifles. In defense, tankers were given a platoon of armor-piercers, but there was little sense from them, so they (armor-piercers) came up with this sort of thing: 3-4 guns from different positions fired at the same tank almost simultaneously, they say it helped.
    1. Gahprom
      Gahprom April 22 2013 14: 49 New
      -1
      : 3-4 shotguns from different positions shot almost simultaneously at one tank, they say it helped

      Do you understand correctly? usually in battle and shoot at 1 tank from several sides several people
      1. Bigriver
        Bigriver April 22 2013 16: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: Gahpro
        .. usually in battle and shoot at 1 tank from several sides several people

        During 1942, there were up to 30 PTRs per kilometer and a half of defense. Allowed, in general, to concentrate fire.
        I'm here, that's what crap I remembered. To Kursk-43 the Germans then began to screen their troughs. And the positioning was unequivocal - against the PTR fire. So the small hole punch, nevertheless, drank their blood.
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 April 22 2013 20: 20 New
          0
          And what, against ordinary shells, an extra centimeter of armor will be superfluous? It’s easier to weld an armor plate than to redo the layout, building up the wall of the machine in one direction or another. By the way, we should have a look when the cumulatives appeared in our country.
          30 mm of the same side from PTR protect easily.
          1. Bigriver
            Bigriver April 23 2013 05: 40 New
            0
            Quote: Avenger711
            And what, against ordinary shells, an extra centimeter of armor will be superfluous? It’s easier to weld an armor plate than to redo the layout ... By the way, we should have a look when the cumulative elements appeared here.
            30 mm of the same side from PTR protect easily.

            It's about 5mm spaced shielding.
            Cumulatives were tested in the autumn of the 42nd. But, in connection with the imperfection of the fuses, in 1943, in microscopic doses, they went only to regimental guns. In long trunks, they often broke in trunks.
            And the COP, with one caliber, was not interchangeable. Only in 1944 appeared in commercial quantities.
            But, here it is interesting, the very positioning of the screening, which the Germans themselves do!
            That is, they themselves argue that in the first place - against the PTR.
            About 30 mm.
            At 100-150 meters, the BS-41 bullet is easy. In addition, the “four” sheet in the area of ​​the rollers - 25 mm.
            The task is not to break through :)) But to inflict an armor effect. The 60g bullet was shitty with that.
        2. Zynaps
          Zynaps April 22 2013 21: 26 New
          +2
          near Kursk, the battle with tanks was assigned to the strongholds of artillery (when German tanks fell into the crossfire of guns). and to a large extent engineering means played their role: minefields, ditches and other obstacles. there the volume of engineering work was unprecedented.
          1. Bigriver
            Bigriver April 23 2013 06: 02 New
            0
            Quote: Zynaps
            near Kursk, the battle with tanks was entrusted to the strongholds of artillery ...

            The truth is yours.
            The statistics of the consumption of munitions of PTR in the defensive phase tops the list of LOW.
            0,5 ammunition. With the consumption of small arms ammunition, artillery, mortar in 1,5-2,3 BK.
  17. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs April 22 2013 17: 48 New
    +2
    The article reminded me of my own experience. In 1979, he was on a business trip to Chapaevsk. Beer was there, from 6 in the morning she worked, I had to use her services. Once an elderly man appeared at a table, they started talking about this and that. I blurted out that the supposedly a tanker (military department), and he tips out said that he was a tank commander in the war. Let’s pull him out, as if they were supposed to be a tankman in a war, but he didn’t tell anything about the battles. He only remembered how painfully the time elapsed before the battle and how after the battle the whole crew cleaned the tracks of human meat, this was the most difficult thing from his words. But he couldn’t remember anything about the battle.
  18. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 April 22 2013 22: 14 New
    -1
    Russian weapons are invincible! Because it is held by a Russian hand. In any other case, this is ordinary iron, with some advantages and many shortcomings, like any other weapon. And it’s always like this - it’s not an easy task for a mortal battle to gather strength and will. So even the bosses will certainly send a bespectacled man! And often not just one, but he, scum, will lie with three baskets! Because the chiefs who believe that before a fight a warrior needs to be deceived ... are not translated into Russia. Do not strengthen, do not support and lie to him abruptly. "To boost morale." How difficult it is, all the time, not only to fight the enemy, but also to endure this filthy lie!
    1. Kostya pedestrian
      Kostya pedestrian April 28 2013 15: 08 New
      0
      It’s very cleverly noticed, but you need to be more critical, not to believe everything. For example, the detachments of the NKVD, which are so muddy in similar articles of a pseudo-patriotic sense, but no one thought that the NPO had created them, just for the opposite, to reduce losses, and save as many soldiers as possible during attacks and attacks.

      After all, it is known that it is worse for a soldier when he, in a panic, under mortar and machine-gun fire, retreats or lies down. Then the greatest losses.

      And propaganda, or rather patriotic education, can also work miracles and save lives, because it’s easier to shoot at frightened people, and a savvy soldier is a difficult mess!

      A fascist tank is crawling, and all the bp have been used up, commander:
      -Sergeant Ivanov, destroy the tank!
      -So we have no more grenades !?
      Sergeant Ivanov, you are a communist!
      The sergeant takes a brick, breaks it in half, and says:
      -Comrade commander, I will destroy two tanks!
  19. воронов
    воронов April 22 2013 23: 31 New
    +1
    Glory to the true hard workers of the war !!!
  20. bublic82009
    bublic82009 April 23 2013 00: 22 New
    0
    PTR is better than nothing.
  21. EXA-2
    EXA-2 April 23 2013 11: 32 New
    0
    Good article. Grandfather well done.
  22. xomaNN
    xomaNN April 23 2013 18: 22 New
    -1
    Wonderful home improvement article. And the veteran is not an ostentatious tribune, but a plowman of that difficult war.
  23. jjj
    jjj April 24 2013 01: 16 New
    +1
    Even a damaged tank must be finished to full. Otherwise, he is you. Bad, not bad, and anti-tank rifles gave some kind of effect. I also read the sniper's memories. So he was able to remove a German sniper only from an anti-tank gun
  24. ant_ey
    ant_ey April 25 2013 12: 20 New
    0
    I can’t condemn him, but I wouldn’t call everyone who died before him drapuns
  25. ant_ey
    ant_ey April 25 2013 12: 22 New
    0
    I remember my grandfather, he also got in the war, but he did not have such heavy memories.
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak April 25 2013 13: 09 New
      0
      Each time, reading similar stories and memoirs, I am more and more convinced of the correctness of my father, who came to Berlin. He categorically refused to remember, much less talk about the war. And he endured at least two of them.
      And I avoid listening to regular storytellers from notebooks.
  26. Kostya pedestrian
    Kostya pedestrian April 28 2013 14: 52 New
    0
    Interestingly, when comrade Gorbunkov spoke about the attack of 6 tanks, which butchered ours under the nut, what did he mean? After all, it turns out that the attack did not choke; they couldn’t burn a single tank, so they had to retreat, and if help came up for them, what help, more accurate armor-piercing soldiers, are they the ones who set fire to the only tank that made the Nazis retreat?

    This slightly casts a shadow on the fence of the whole story, which suggests the idea of ​​hidden propaganda patched up under a patriotic story.

    Below is a link to a comparative table of anti-tank rifles, as well as photos and names of heroes of armor-piercing guns, and this table displays the advantages of our guns.

    http://www.wio.ru/galgrnd/atrru.htm
    1. Cynic
      Cynic April 28 2013 19: 02 New
      0
      Quote: Kostya pedestrian
      Below is a link to a comparative table of anti-tank rifles, as well as photos and names of heroes of armor-piercing guns, and this table displays the advantages of our guns.

      Oh well .
      and then let me water the numbers, what an encyclopedia. And by the numbers I already understood where he was driving. He himself prompted me the answer to the question he asked. He wanted me to confirm that our PTRs were the strongest in the world. He, at least, see the boy, and exchanged the fourth dozen. Until now, he did not understand that it was not the PTR tanks themselves that the German tanks were knocking out! So that!
      1. Kostya pedestrian
        Kostya pedestrian April 30 2013 15: 01 New
        0
        and in addition to this, I practice Wushu from school, so I understand that weapons should be an extension of the hand, nevertheless the numbers are stubborn things. And the performance characteristics of Soviet rifles prevail, not to mention the performance in the field.

        And according to your words, it can be concluded that it was not the tanks themselves that shot - but the tankers. Those. it was a kind of hand-to-hand between tankers and armor-piercing soldiers. Cool logic!
  27. Alex
    Alex 1 September 2013 00: 31 New
    +1
    A muddy impression. On the one hand, man is certainly a hero and a modest worker of war. And on the other hand, some kind of hidden malice is heard in him: they draped; to Stalingrad, as if by notes; Slavs "Urya-I", like that Wolf in the cartoon. Yes, and pro-friend friends of fellow soldiers (of the dead, probably) are somehow talking about a street lesson.
    In general, something is wrong here.