Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan: the game on the field of integration

In recent days, a lot News came from Central Asia and Kazakhstan. An active discussion has begun on the Internet of a wide variety of issues regarding the full ratification of the agreements of Kyrgyzstan with Russia, the upcoming accession of this country to the Customs Union, as well as the fact that Kazakhstan, under pressure from the opposition, can withdraw from the agreements on the Customs Union. The Kazakh opposition does not like the idea of ​​creating such "supranational" add-ons as the Eurasian Parliament.

I. Moscow + Bishkek =?

Victoria Panfilova ("Independent newspaper") recalls that 26 February Kyrgyzstan became the first country in Central Asia to ratify all agreements with Russia. It may well be that by the end of the year Bishkek will join the Customs Union and join the project of creating the Eurasian Economic Union.

President Almazbek Atambayev signed the law on ratification of the package of agreements between the governments of Kyrgyzstan and the Russian Federation. These include: writing off the external debt of the republic to the Russian Federation (half a billion dollars); construction of the largest hydropower plants of the Kambarata-1 and Upper Naryn cascade of power plants; agreement on the creation of a unified Russian military base.

According to the expert of the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies Azhdar Kurtov, the foreign policy of the Russian Federation should contribute to the innovative development of the economies of the EAU countries, and possibly those that are going to enter there.

“Otherwise, the model of the colonial system will turn out, under which Russia develops, among other things, innovatively, and its“ allies ”are affirmed in the status of its raw materials appendages. This is unlikely to suit someone. Including Kyrgyzstan, although its economy has degraded in recent years, ”says Kurtov.

Despite the disappointing economic indicators, Kyrgyzstan at the end of this year can become a member of the Customs Union. This was recently said by the Russian ambassador to Kyrgyzstan Andrei Krutko. However, for the introduction, according to the said Azhdar Kurtov, Bishkek will have to bring its legislation in line with the Russian one: the standards of the CU and the future of the EAU are focused on Russia - a country whose economy is more advanced. Simply put, Russia will have to take the content of Kyrgyzstan. This is a constant problem of integration associations with members at different stages of economic development, the expert said.

But not all Kyrgyz are happy. It would seem that here both construction, and the creation of jobs, and the "maintenance", and the cancellation of a huge debt ... No, other Kyrgyz gentlemen were afraid that they would fall under the heel of Moscow.

For example, the deputy of the Kyrgyz parliament Ravshan Dzheenbekov sees in the close rapprochement with Russia the appearance of an even greater dependence. According to him, many Kyrgyz media are under Russian control, communication and fuel markets are in the hands of Russian companies. Questions of transportation, distribution and exploration of gas transferred to Gazprom. Issues with the Manas airbase can be solved only with the consent of the CSTO, that is, again, Russia. Now here and hydropower transferred to Russia. It turns out, according to the expert, that in foreign policy, Mr. Atambayev "focuses only on the Kremlin." Moreover, dividends for Kyrgyzstan, according to Djeenbekov, are elusive, but for Russia they are obvious. Who manages hydropower, he controls and Central Asia.

Ivan Gladilin (KM.ru), referring to the 24kg.org resource, writes that Kyrgyz deputies in the Jogorku Kenesh (parliament) did not object to writing off half a billion of debt, but a serious discussion broke out about other agreements.

Initially, the Minister of Energy and Industry of Kyrgyzstan Avtandil Kalmambetov reminded deputies of the main economic parameters of the agreement: the financing of the feasibility study for Kambaraty-1 and VNK is carried out at the expense of the Russian side, and Kyrgyzstan provides the right to use land plots and assets. For the construction of the KA-1 Russia will provide financing under 2,5% per annum. For VNK, Russia contributes 50%, and the remaining funds are attracted under the conditions of “LIBOR plus 1,5% per annum”. For the period of the return of funds of the Russian Federation, it is exempt from paying taxes and customs duties on the import of special equipment, and the Kyrgyz Republic sets the tariff for the export of electricity.

Because of the last points, the fuss began.

“Kyrgyzstan risks completely losing the Kambarata HPP-1,” said Zhyldyzkan Dzholdoshova. - I do not agree with some points of the agreement, they contradict national interests. It is bonded in nature, since all rights and shares are transferred to Russia. By ratifying the agreement, we will lose our sovereignty. Without Russia's approval, Kyrgyzstan will not even be able to get electricity for the needs of the population. ”

So, writes I. Gladilin, Kyrgyz people’s deputies appreciated the agreement under which Kyrgyzstan contributes water resources to the project, and everything else - money, equipment, specialists - gives Russia. As for the participation in all hydropower projects, it is equal.

As for the united military base, Moscow "managed to put Kyrgyzstan in a ... privileged position." The Russian leadership has decided to allocate 1,5 billion to the modernization of the armies of Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, but most of Bishkek - 1,1 billion, and Dushanbe was offended. The planned visits to Tajikistan by First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov and Chief of the Russian General Staff Valery Gerasimov failed. It seems, the columnist believes, "fit to talk not about the diplomatic victory of Moscow, but about a clear flaw in our policy."

Meanwhile, the Kremlin has definitely decided to return to the Central Asian region. And for the sake of this return, Moscow is ready to put up a lot of money and even its reputation, notes Gladilin.

Political designer Yury Yuryev, answering the question IA "REX" about integration processes in which Kyrgyzstan is involved, says:

“We cannot know all the arguments of state power. Suppose that Kyrgyzstan will allow the Taliban hordes to be stopped when it strikes the North, costing the cost of two divisions, but performing the service of ten divisions. The mountainous region of Kyrgyzstan is very convenient for defense, the Tien Shan mountain range ideally covers the border with China. Or, these power plants and gas supplies will release China as an energy consumer if China’s offshore energy supply routes are cut off by the United States, which is quite simple. It is possible that Kyrgyzstan is considered convenient for control of the region aviation or contains some rare earth metals that are critical for Russia. Such arguments are considered secret at all times, and the “customs union”, or even the “Kyrgyz-Russian friendship society” or even the equestrian community of koumiss lovers, may well be the reason for interaction.

Even if Russia "simply rides the mountain range," the scientist says, then "this may be beneficial compared to the much higher cost of other defensive lines."

Ii. Kazakhstan: question with participation remains open

Analyst Alexander Shustov ("Century") believes that in the integration processes between Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan there was a pause. Her culprit is Kazakhstan. Under pressure from charges of possible loss of part of national sovereignty, Astana blocked the last integration initiatives of Moscow.

The Moscow idea of ​​creating a Eurasian parliament, expressed by 13 of September 2012 by State Duma Speaker Sergei Naryshkin, was named secretary of the ruling Nur Otan party Yerlan Karin "only by the desire of the Russian side." The Kazakh opposition also took a sharply negative position regarding the creation of the Eurasian Parliament. “It seems to me that the Eurasian Union, in the form in which its Russian colleagues see it, is more presented as an attempt to add Kazakhstan and Russia to Belarus and Belarus ...”, said Burikhan Nurmukhamedov, deputy chairman of the National Social Democratic Party Azat.

Alexander Shustov also notes that the Pan-Turkic vector of Kazakhstan’s foreign policy has recently intensified. In October 2012, during a visit to Ankara, President Nazarbayev delivered a speech calling for the unity of the Turkic peoples. According to him, 200 of millions of Turks live between Altai and the Mediterranean Sea, and if they unite, they will become "a very effective force in the world." At the same time, as is known, the president criticized the presence of Kazakhstan within the Russian Empire and the USSR: "... Over the 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion." After such a speech, the experts talked about the likely refusal of Kazakhstan from Eurasian integration in favor of the Pan-Turkic project.

Cooperation between the Turkic-speaking states has recently intensified markedly. At the end of January 2013, the Azerbaijani Trend news agency reported that at the second meeting of the economic, trade and financial issues committee of the Turkic Parliamentary Assembly, it is planned to discuss the elimination of customs taxes and the creation of tax-free zones between the participants of the organization.

Ivan Gladilin (KM.ru), referring to the dialog.kz website, notes that the Kazakhstani opposition is carrying on with the idea of ​​organizing a referendum on the issue of Kazakhstan’s withdrawal from the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space. True, the date of the plebiscite was not set, but in the meantime 2015 year is approaching. Most likely, the opposition has no agreement on this matter.

As for the issue of the level of support for Eurasian integration in Kazakhstan, it remains open. Yulia Yakusheva, deputy executive director of the North-South Russian political science center, notes that opposite statements by sociologists can be found on the Web: from support level to 80%, or vice versa - almost complete denial of any positive news regarding the CU and CES.

And what about Nursultan Nazarbayev? And he emphasizes: we can talk only about economic, but not political integration.

“Eurasian integration is our economic advantage over the challenge of the third global industrial revolution,” Nazarbayev said in January, meeting with diplomats accredited to Kazakhstan. - We intend to make a joint breakthrough to new technologies and structures. At the same time, Kazakhstan, Russia and Belarus remain independent states with their own national interests. ”

The other day, the results of a study of the sociocultural consequences of the rapprochement of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, conducted earlier by the Institute of Expert Evaluation and the Center Discourse, were published. In general, citizens of the three countries consider the creation of a Eurasian Union as possible and even to some extent desirable. According to the respondents, among the advantages of the formation of the SES is a good opportunity to develop domestic tourism. The CES opens up opportunities for the active part of the population: enterprising people can get certain benefits. The SES will affect the unification of scientists (say, by the Soviet model). The head of the Institute of Expert Evaluations, Sergey Pavlyuk, confirmed that the main conclusion of the study is as follows: the SES has a future and is stronger than contradictions. “In the survey, we all the time put this question in a hidden form. There is a tendency to live together and work together. And we can have a single market, ”commented Pavlyuk.

According to official statistics, the above-mentioned Yulia Yakusheva reports that the volume of mutual trade of the CU member states increased in 2012 by 8,7% compared to the previous year, and in foreign trade by 3,2%. Belarus for 2012 year increased exports within the vehicle by 10,2%, in Russia exports increased by 1,6%, imports increased by 3,2%. In Kazakhstan, these growth figures were 6,1 and 26,6%.

According to I. Gladilin, "the Kazakh opposition only defend the interests of the semi-feudal Kazakh nobility."

“The Kazakhstani economy ... is extremely monopolized, and not only the raw materials sector is monopolized. And worst of all, hidden monopolies are flourishing, when companies that have a good “roof” control all areas where there is at least some significant money turnover. Any such competition in the Kazakhstani business, any competition in the markets, which is somehow promoted by the integration of the economies of the three countries, is like a guest in the throat. Hence all the talk about the fact that with further integration Kazakhstan will lose more and more its sovereignty. ”

Nevertheless, Moscow can also oppose the Kazakh elites with something: after all, the success of Eurasian integration will bring new elites to the front roles.

However, these elites are not yet visible.

Alexey Vlasov (IA center) notes that at the level of political elites, difficulties in promoting the integration project arose after the March summit of the EurAsEC: after all, there was no decision to immediately establish a Eurasian Economic Union. It was the differences between Moscow and Astana in terms of the timing and sequence of joint actions that led to the fact that the question of the formation of the EurAsEC was postponed to the 2015 year.

One of the key reasons that predetermined “inhibition” was the fact that, in the opinion of part of the Kazakhstani elite, Russian government officials do not sufficiently take into account the interests of Kazakhstan in the process of forming new supranational bodies. None of the integration centers is located in Astana. The analyst admits that this argument deserves attention, since the transfer of the location of a number of bodies outside of Russia "will help avoid conversations that Moscow is once again reviving the Soviet Union."

There is also a “subjective offense”: the Kazakh side believes that the role of Nazarbayev as “creator and creator of the Eurasian project” is not sufficiently reflected in the Russian media and speeches of some politicians.

The public figures Bulat Abilov and Mukhtar Taizhan are particularly active in criticizing the Eurasian project today in Kazakhstan. According to Taizhan, integration with Russia is a process dangerous for the independence of Kazakhstan. He draws attention to the fact that 2000 people work in the Eurasian Commission, and 84% of them are Russian citizens. Taizhan characterizes his former life "under the jurisdiction of Russia" as follows: "As a result, half of the Kazakh people were lost during the famine years."

Finally, there is a whole layer of businessmen suffering losses due to the entry of Kazakhstan into the Customs Union and the SES. These include those who re-export Chinese goods, such as used cars.

Many economists also pay attention to the fact that with the development of integration the Kazakhstan market opens for Russian producers, but the reverse process does not occur. But the reason, says Alexei Vlasov, is more likely that the Kazakh manufacturer, with the exception of strategic sectors, has not “gained muscle” yet and cannot successfully compete with the products of Russian companies. Kazakhstan economist Kanat Berentayev argues that these are temporary difficulties, and in the future the reverse trend will prevail.

In any case, the analyst writes, the economic factor in the process of Eurasian integration remains dominant. One can even assume that this year the partners in the Eurasian project will go to accelerate integration.

Thus, despite the pessimistic mood of the opposition and some public figures, Kazakhstan will probably move along the path of integration. Another thing is that these processes are not as fast as the optimists would like.

Observed Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru

Comments

[Civil]

Without Ukraine, the union has not yet counted; to drag a suitcase without a handle, that is, the countries of Central Asia, is still a pleasure ...

[Kaa]

Quote: Civil

Without Ukraine, the union has not yet been counted,

WHILE. "The meeting between the presidents of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan will presumably take place in April," said Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, Delo reports. A model of cooperation with Russia has not yet been found, - Yanukovych."The future meeting, most likely, will be held with the participation of Ukraine, Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. And, most likely, it will be April this year, that is, later than in 1,5-2 months.", - said V. Yanukovych on Wednesday in Kanev (Cherkasy region). The President spoke about this meeting, answering the question about the results of negotiations on the gas theme, which were raised at his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday in Zavidovo, in the process of gas negotiations the parties are implementing a kind of "step-by-step plan, working groups are working at the ministerial level, and also with the participation of consultants from well-known consulting companies, international backgrounds ".http: //ubr.ua/ukraine-and-world/power/ianukovich-vstretitsia-s-
leader
ami-stran-ts-v-aprele-212863

[Kasym]

The thing is that in Kazakhstan there is no opposition as such. In parliament, with the exception of 2-3 deputies (to create the appearance of a multi-party system and avoid criticism from the West), there is only one party, Nur Otan (presidential). At one time, our oppositionists quarreled, so the statements of individuals are their point of view and nothing more.
Politically (internal and external), everything is decided by the president. In this regard, Russia has nothing to worry about, since the integration process has been initiated by Nazarbayev since the collapse of the USSR. But under Yeltsin, unfortunately, this idea remained only in dreams, and without Russia integration in the post-Soviet space is impossible. Nazarbayev enjoys the support of the population due to his integration policy, or rather, this is one of the main reasons. About a third of the population of Kazakhstan are not indigenous. It should be reminded that representatives of about 100 nationalities live in our republic and Nazarbayev is 100% enjoying their support thanks to integration processes. Which politician will refuse such support? So whether he wants to or not, he will go all the way on the integration issue. Everyone is convinced of this.
Another thing is Kyrgyzstan. In Kazakhstan, many are convinced that if we want peace on our border, we need to pull Kyrgyzstan out of the swamp in which it is bogged down. Even if she does not join the vehicle. Kazakhstan in this regard is doing a lot - grain, fuel and lubricants we lend; transit of goods from the Kyrgyz Republic through the territory of Kazakhstan at domestic prices; loans. At almost every summit, Nazarbayev asks his Kyrgyz counterpart what else to do. And each president of Kyrgyzstan makes one of the first visits to us and thanks for the help. KR for us, as Belarus for Russia. Here are such things. Although it should be noted, Kyrgyzstan has potential - uranium, gold, cotton, especially tourism (the country is unusually beautiful - Switzerland has a rest) and water (which is especially valuable in our region). They would have more order.
Sincerely .

[Bekzat]

Dear Kasym, plus you for the comment, I myself could not describe it like that !!!

[Kasym]

Bekzat, welcome and glad to try!

[Kasym]

I would also like to supplement it. Russia and Kazakhstan are very similar, like twins. The economy is raw, vast territories, on average, population density is low. Both countries are multinational, have good gold and foreign exchange reserves, and external debts with respect to GDP (neither Putin) are low. Possess tremendous natural wealth. There are Berezovsky (Rakhat Aliev), Gusinsky (Mukhtar Ablyazov), Luzhkov (Khrapunov).
So, by joint efforts we are able to extend both Belarus and Kyrgyzstan (we need consistency and delicacy with it, but we shouldn’t rush in any case - step by step).
Something like that . Sincerely .

[Black]

Quote: Kasym

There are Berezovsky (Rakhat Aliev), Gusinsky (Mukhtar Ablyazov), Luzhkov (Khrapunov).

This is what brings us together! We have one grief, and one way out is to be a fist, and not with spread fingers.
Good, dear. Plus, for your faith in friendship and a common future.

[washi]

In Kazakhstan, all life along the Tselinograd - Alma-Ata highway (I'm sorry, I do not know all the new names). If you retreat from this track at least 30 km. - devastation. Many houses, schools, kindergartens were demolished. Parks were cut down for firewood. The Slavs and Germans, of those who remained complaints: the bosses are only Kazakhs. The bosses everywhere attach their friends, even utter idiots. Then they make excuses: Sorry, but I would not have understood if the Esib had refused. If two Kazakhs fell into one slaughter, then there will be no work - they talk peacefully, the Russians have to work. I myself did not participate in the conversation, but after a trip to the Republic of Kazakhstan I believe: A grandmother arrived - a Kazakh from a village to the city to visit her daughter. He can’t speak Russian. There were many such under the Soviet regime. So the granddaughter began to teach her - you grandmother is not speaking correctly. It's me that not only Great Ukry, but Great Kazakhs come up with their new language

[Marek Rozny]

Vasya, you don't even know the names of the cities, but you are talking about life in KZ. They normally live in Kazakhstan not only in capitals, but also in provinces. There is work, there is order, there is money, there is security. The number of schools has increased, kindergartens have undergone the notorious "sequestration", but in recent years their number is growing. The number of parks and green spaces in general is not decreasing, but rather growing. In Kazakhstan, deforestation is generally prohibited; timber is brought from Russia. If a tree needs to be cut down in the city, then several new seedlings are planted instead.
About the fact that the bosses are only Kazakhs - complete nonsense. Another thing is that the majority of government officials are Kazakhs, but this is due to the fact that the official is obliged to speak the state language, and most of the Russians still can’t connect two words in Kazakh. The police are also the majority Kazakhs, as they take the police after serving in the army, and the Slavs are reluctant to join the army, 90% of the recruits are Kazakhs. If Russian boys do not go to serve, then how can they then get to the police?
And about the Kazakh language - I wrote some dregs. If you only know Russian, then you shouldn't think that the Kazakhs have a "new invented language."

[washi]

I lived in Kazakhstan. Karaganda region Shakhtinsk. There will be time to jam. And you will see everything for yourself. By the way, there was still an SMS factory there, of course, they killed it after 1991. Then some idiot restored it, but there was no one to work (the Slavs escaped, but the Kazakhs weren’t supposed to work) and they again dismantled it for metal.
Regarding the language: My sister's classmate in Karaganda got a job as a journalist. Her expression: Yes, I am ready to learn Kazakh, but they are constantly changing it.
And really new words were invented, unfortunately.
I read in RK two history books. One by one, the ark moored in the Alatau mountains, In another, the direct descendants of Adam. There is only one conclusion - civilization came from the Kazakhs. And the Russian invaders since occupied all the best lands.

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

Karaganda region Shakhtinsk. There will be time to jam.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%B0%D1%85%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA
http://shahtinsk.ru/

Quote: Vasya

I read in RK two history books. One by one, the ark moored in the Alatau mountains, In another, the direct descendants of Adam. There is only one conclusion - civilization came from the Kazakhs. And the Russian invaders since occupied all the best lands.

Please, do not name the compilers of these textbooks the place and date of publication?
I love to read science fiction myself.

[washi]

Sorry, but I gave them to a Kazakh from a neighboring part. He read and became proud. Bought at a store in Karaganda. Recommendations for study, etc.

[Marek Rozny]

Vasya, a bald lie about textbooks.

[washi]

Well, I'm sorry, I read them. Gave read to others in Russia. If necessary, I will find them. They cut that part, but if my word is not enough, I will do my best.

[Marek Rozny]

You can download any Kazakhstan textbook on the Internet.

[ia-ai00]

This Russian can be downloaded, at least school, at least high school, at least regulatory literature, such as SNiP, GOST, RD, etc. and free, and Kazakhstan - only for money, and even then, not all are represented!

[Octavian avgust]

There are such parquet patriots! A teacher at the university even tells me that the first people were from Shymkent!

[ia-ai00]

So everything is written there correctly? - Noah's ark moored in the mountains of Alatau, and the Kazakhs are the direct descendants of Adam!? ...

[Earthman]

My countrymen, do not feed the troll, let it think what it wants

[washi]

how to put on my belt so dumb and dumb. I have nothing to think about facts

[washi]

There was a park

[washi]

There was a school

[Marek Rozny]

Rebuilt stadium

new fountain

Park

Seedlings in the park of Shakhtinsk

New dance floor in the park of Shakhtinsk

entrance to the park

New sidewalks

Renovated school gym

Road repair equipment on the streets

School number 13, which is pictured, is closed as unnecessary. The population of the city in the 90s decreased by 10 thousand people. Accordingly, the number of schools has decreased. The rest of the schools work as expected. The population of Shakhtinsk began to grow, the decline of the 90s will close and the school will be launched again.

[washi]

School number 13 was demolished. Parks were cut down. Do not believe me, ask on the sites of Shakhtinsk, Dolinka. In your photos there is one seedling instead of a flower bed. And where there were parks there Kovyl.

[Marek Rozny]

Who cut down the trees in the park in the 90s? Isn't it you, Vasya? Or "Kazakh nationalists"? You can see the number of seedlings and flower beds in a modern park in the photo. there is not one sapling. Don't tryndi.
About the fact that the 13th school is no longer needed by the city, I already wrote to you. The number of inhabitants will increase - as many schools will be set up as needed. In the meantime, there are no shortages of schools in Shakhtinsk.

[Marek Rozny]

Vasya, and when did you live there? In the 90s? Then the whole country was in _ope. Now a completely different economic situation. I am in the Karaganda region several times a year. My relatives live there, and I have business affairs.
On the language side, this is bullshit about "constant change." There are new words that have appeared as a result of new economic and political realities, however, new words have also appeared in the Russian language after 1991. But in general, the Kazakh language has not changed. And your sister's classmate just comes up with excuses.
And what you wrote about Noah's Ark and Adam in Kazakh textbooks is just a banal lie.
Regarding how the Russian colonists received land in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, it is no secret to anyone - the best places for resettlement from Russia and Ukraine were selected from the Kazakhs according to the Stolypin reform. Try to read at least one document of that era. And this is precisely what caused the Kazakh and Kyrgyz uprising of 1916.

[washi]

I agree about the immigrants in tsarist times. The Soviet was different. Not only in you, but also in Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan. Under the king, they occupied the land near water bodies, displacing the indigenous people. And under Stalin, they did everything from scratch. When north of Balkhash, agriculture was created in the steppe. A system of ponds, irrigation ditches.
I will try to find textbooks. It seems as yet comrade. Great Ukrov to pin the Great Kazakhs.
And the language, well, I'm sorry, I'm right. How is your apreka there? I remember the end of KHAN.

[Marek Rozny]

nothing bad was written about the immigrants of the Soviet era in Kazakh textbooks.
Vodokanals in Turkestan were created before the Russians.

[washi]

And lived here

[Marek Rozny]

Photos of Shakhtinsk - http://www.shahtinsk.gov.kz/ru/gallery/
and http://shahtinsk.ru/photo/categories.php?cat_id=1

[ia-ai00]

Lord, how are you doing well, oh well! All my life I have been traveling to power plants in Kazakhstan. Over the years of "independence" they have brought the CHP and GRES to a deplorable state, "squeezed" out of them everything that is possible! Repairs were not carried out, except when it collapses not today or tomorrow, or has already collapsed! All heating, power grids, plumbing are worn out to the limit, although the tariffs for water, heat, electricity generation for centuries have a share intended for current and major repairs, as well as modernization, but in fact these works have not been carried out for almost 30 years, and now , it turns out that the population should provide all these works with even higher tariffs, so as not to end up in the Stone Age! The entire infrastructure was destroyed, as well as specialized enterprises for the repair of energy enterprises. And you are doing well1 Yes, in contrast to you, I will post thousands of photographs of devastation in our country, although I doubt that this is your country, your flag is the USA!

[Marek Rozny]

1) CHP and GRES were transferred to private owners in the 90s, because they thought that the private owner would be a prudent owner. However, it turned out that we did not take into account the factor of the period of capital formation - "wild capitalism", during which not a single private owner of power plants was engaged in overhaul of their property. Not the state, but private traders "squeezed" everything they could. The state gradually regains control over the management of these facilities and brings them back to normal.
Complaining to Kazakhstanis that there is no heat or light is simply a sin. Especially when compared with Russia, in which half a country freezes every year.
Large funds are allocated for the modernization of this infrastructure, and this issue is among the main issues for the government. A number of measures are also being taken to rationalize the use of energy - from the insulation of consumer objects to the transition to energy-saving technologies. All of this is aimed at lowering consumer spending. Until 1991, power equipment was practically not produced in KZ. But now dozens of enterprises are engaged in this, one can recall the Kokshetau Tynys (and other enterprises of Kazakhstan Engineering), and the Siemens plant in Almaty, etc.
No collapse in the energy and heat supply system is expected. Do not catch horror out of the blue. And upload photos, let's talk.

[Rds12]

Oh, excuse me, our chosen ones, like the Jews. Everything is from you, and all the others are so dirty servants. That’s the patriarch’s now, then .............. you probably still have Martians, which, of course, came from you!

Did the Slavs run away? Of course, when life is good, everything is in place. And a little trouble so immediately the most "brave" give drape. Well done!
Koreans, by the way, did not jerk or think.

It is especially funny when in huge quotation marks "Russian historians" write fairy tales about how you "Russian" Asians, Caucasians (Muslims) taught purity! Ahaha!

At the expense of languages. Do you live in Kazakhstan? Kindly know! Something does not suit you? Then piss off! This applies to all countries and federations of Russia.

If you consider the one as a history book in which the obvious nonsense about the ark is written, then you are clearly narrow-minded. Take read MODERN RUSSIAN BOOKS on the so-called "HISTORY". There All the former USSR countries are depicted ............, which you allegedly dragged to your own detriment for a couple of hundred years.

[Bekzat]

For Vasya, please write the Kazakhs correctly, I don’t write the Khos, or something else like that.

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: Marek Rozny

There is work, there is order, there is money, there is security.

Not everywhere!

Quote: Marek Rozny

Deforestation is generally prohibited in Kazakhstan

Well, you're wrong with that!

[Marek Rozny]

1) Where is there no work?
2) In Kazakhstan, there is a ban on logging in areas of the state fund until 2014. You can only carry out sanitary cutting. Everything else is illegal.

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: Marek Rozny

1) Where is there no work?

Everywhere, especially in the south.

Quote: Marek Rozny

2) In Kazakhstan, there is a ban on logging in areas of the state fund until 2014. You can only carry out sanitary cutting. Everything else is illegal.

In Mackinka, almost the entire forest was cut down, only the outer edge was left, but inside you will enter the forest!

[Marek Rozny]

1) Unemployment in the south - 5,9% of the adult population. At the same time, tens of thousands of gastas find work there. By world standards, it’s generally a sin for us to complain that there is supposedly no work for the population.
2) In what years was the forest cut down? In the 90s. Now it has become much stricter. By the way, we are used to thinking that there are very few forests in the KZ. Only at the same time we do not take into account the enormity of the territory of all of Kazakhstan. In fact, the forests in the KZ are in total comparable with the forests ... Belarus, which massively exports lumber.

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: Marek Rozny

Unemployment in the south is 5,9% of the adult population.

You know how statistics are compiled, we have no unemployed people - all self-employed!

Quote: Marek Rozny

In what years was the forest cut down? In the 90s.

No, and now they are cutting it, when I saw this I felt sorry for myself.

[Marek Rozny]

1) pfff. Octavian, have you ever been to the south? What business? I have big doubts that you were in the South Kazakhstan region, Dzhambul or Kyzylorda regions.
2) Now it is possible to chop only for sanitary purposes. Everything else is a criminal case. And everyone knows how the locals themselves cut down forests in northern Kazakhstan. Not the notorious Chimkents have cut down your forest. And their own. Che is now blaming this blame on someone?

[Octavian avgust]

My friend lives in Taraz with whom I am currently studying in Almaty and he tells this. There are many internal migrants in Almaty who came here in search of work. Do you know about farm laborers who stand on Seifullin Street. After all, we have such a mentality that not everyone will go to the stock exchange to stand up.

Quote: Marek Rozny

Che is now blaming this blame on someone?

I'm talking about the inaction of the authorities! Of course they cut their own, that the chips fly. I now have that they arrange a "chainsaw massacre"!

[Marek Rozny]

I’ve been to Taraz many times. My mother comes from there, many relatives live. Those who want to work and earn money work and earn money. And the percentage of loafers and pathological losers is always there. Even the USSR could not cope with the parasite class.

And the fact that people go to the big city from the regions does not mean that they did not have work there. Just people want to live in a big city. Such internal migrants in any capital of the world are rampant.

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: Marek Rozny

Those who want to work and earn money work and earn money.

Many want to but cannot. Pay a penny. Just don't call everyone "idlers and pathological losers"
I understand that you live well, do business, worked in state. organs under the Nazarbayev regime and everything is in chocolate. But there are people (most) who live worse than in the late USSR.
I have friends who have never traveled by public transport and have not seen all the wonders of life, have not earned the money that they have, but they talk about the people as some kind of plebeians who deserve it.

Quote: Marek Rozny

Just people want to live in a big city.

Quote: Marek Rozny

Such internal migrants in any capital of the world are rampant.

It is not right!

[ia-ai00]

No need to tell tales! Not only in villages near Almaty there is no work, but also in satellite cities! Talgar, Kaskelena, Kapchagay, from Chilik go to work in Almaty, and he (Chilik) is 120 km from Almaty. In the morning, a long traffic jam in the city, in the evening - from the city. And right everyone wants to live in the city? Well, then, when the Soviet Union somehow did not really break into the city?

[Marek Rozny]

Do you even understand what a megalopolis, satellite city is? Do you know where they come from every morning people to work in Moscow, New York or Tokyo?

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: Marek Rozny

Do you know where people come from every morning to work in Moscow, New York or Tokyo?

Marek is not right!
At present, we see that globalization has led us to the fact that problems from the economic sphere have also been transferred to others: education, food, the family crisis, and many others.
They express the impasse and suicidal nature of the established type of global civilization.

[Marek Rozny]

There is not always reason to create large-scale production near the metropolis. In some cases it is really simpler, more profitable to create factory infrastructure in a large city, where there is all communications, and to attract slave force from the suburbs. In the Almaty suburbs it is more profitable and more convenient to create food production enterprises (which is usually done), and other employment facilities are easier to have in developed infrastructure Almaty (New York, Moscow, Tokyo). This is called agglomeration.
The USSR also proceeded from similar principles most often. We called it satellite cities. Those. a kind of "sleeping areas" of the metropolis.

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: ia-ai00

Well, then, when the Soviet Union somehow did not really break into the city?

In the USSR, there was socialism, not liberal capitalism, so the public pie was redistributed to all, and not to the elect.

[Marek Rozny]

Under Stalin, the villagers were almost enslaved. It was necessary to have a bunch of arguments and a desire to move from village to city. As soon as in the 60s the villagers were given passports and permission to move almost freely around the country, the mass of rural residents rushed to the big cities. Urbanization in those years was actively increasing, and the number of villages began to decline rapidly.

Satellite towns were created to drive work to the metropolis from there.

[super-vitek]

It’s strange you seem to be from Americos, and you know so much about life in Kazakhstan. Question. Where did sir come from?

[marshes]

Quote: super-vitek

It’s strange you seem to be from Americos, and you know so much about life in Kazakhstan. Question. Where did sir come from?

If you're talking about Marek Rozny, then it's probably from a tablet or a Beeline modem.
This happens.

[Focuser]

The tablet in any case has nothing to do with it. Flags are set according to IP-users of the user, which are issued by the provider. For Megaline users, they are Kazakhstani, and for Beeline - Amer.
http://www.geoiptool.com/
You’ll come here and the service by your IP will show where you came from.

[Marek Rozny]

I am in Kazakhstan. Provider - Beeline. The flag on the site is constantly changing - then Kazakh, then American.

[Cheloveck]

Quote: Marek Rozny

The police are also the majority Kazakhs, as they take to the police after serving in the army

He smiled, it was recalled that even under the Soviet regime jokes were circulated about this (in Kazakhstan, of course) ...
Like, in kindergarten to tell children to come tomorrow in national clothes, to which the Kazakh father says to his son: "Where can I get such a small police uniform?"

[Marek Rozny]

There is such a joke)))

[ia-ai00]

What do you know better from America? Although Vasya does not know the new names of cities, he described everything correctly! I, too, living in Kazakhstan since birth, cannot remember the new street names, since they are not associated with anyone, the Kazakh employees also do not know, in the majority, who the person was, in whose honor this or that street was renamed. Due to the specifics of my work, I travel around Kazakhstan on business trips, I see abandoned villages, destroyed houses, industrial buildings from the train windows, my heart bleeds! And we often conduct conversations with fellow travelers of the indigenous nationality. So they, who have been speaking the Kazakh language all their lives, are outraged by the "alteration" of their language, the introduction of artificial words into Kazakh speech! And they say that they absolutely cannot help their children in learning modern Kazakh, because modern linguists from different departments come up with (suck out) new words, replacing those that have existed from time immemorial with new ones and not even agreeing with each other (between departments). And there are no words about normative, technical, legal and medical at all ... Translators suffer and sometimes the meaning of a translation from different translators contradicts each other!

[Marek Rozny]

1) I already answered here that I am from Kazakhstan.
2) Vasya does not even know the correct name of the city Russian. And then Kazakh or just new names? Not a single normal Kazakhstani will call Pavlodar Pavlograd.
3) The fact that your brain is not able to remember street names is your problem. Personally, I know all the old and new street names in Astana and Almaty. And for you to remember in 20 years a dozen new street names of your hometown is a fantastic task?
4) Give concrete examples of “destroyed” settlements. Vaska has already tried to tell that Shakhtinsk allegedly "died". There are some problematic small settlements, but firstly, there are usually two reasons - small towns were created around one resource-oriented enterprise, and after the raw materials were completely exhausted, the city's economy ended there; secondly, there is a program for the creation of new industries in small towns + the state program of resettlement to other regions of the KZ; thirdly, there are depressed areas in almost all countries, be it Russia, Britain or the United States. Shakhtinsk looks like an oasis of life compared to Detroit (the former automobile capital of the USA). In addition, many objects are simply not needed in modern Kazakhstan. Military training grounds alone with their infrastructure occupied 12% of the territory of the Kazakh SSR. Do we need that much now?
5) There are no changes in the Kazakh language. There is a certain mass of new vocabulary that has appeared as a result of changes in political, scientific, technical and economic realities. In the Russian language for 20 years there are also a lot of new words, but why don't you assert that the Russian language has been "remade" and now it is impossible to speak it? Beneficiary, tablet device, provider, electorate, restructuring, default, etc. - is this the introduction of artificial words in Russian? Why aren't you indignant here?
No replacement of old "age-old" words with new ones. This is nonsense you have written. In the 90s there was a problem of inconsistent actions of linguists, only this is already in the past.
Special terminology (especially medical, technical) has been around for a long time and is already established. Go to the book and look through the special dictionary. You can already forget about the non-authenticity of translations. Moreover, this problem was associated with the inauthenticity of the Kazakh and Russian texts, and not in the comparison of two Kazakh texts. Moreover, this problem is very exaggerated by those who can’t connect two words in Kazakh.

[ia-ai00]

1. From Kazakhstan, but the flag is USA !?
2. Vasya has a typo, I have no doubt!
3. And in your brain, apparently, there are only 20 streets, because they have already been renamed -170 (according to the reference book), now there are obviously more of them, tk. reference book for the past year. And you, just a DEMAGOGUE, who just to "hit", are too lazy to look into the source!
4. In April I will again go to Petropavlovsk on a business trip, post photos with the exact address, although it will obviously be "monkey labor", since You, apparently, will not find Kazakhstan on the map!
5. In the Russian language, if there is no word of its own on a specific topic, foreign is accepted into its dictionary! For you, for example, a miner - this is a fancy phrase in literal translation: - "A man digging deep into the ground." I myself am a techie, all GOSTs, SNIPs, RD, etc., have been translated into Kazakh. My employees are Kazakhs, who grew up in rural areas, studied in their native language, and who are fluent in it, read all technical literature only in Russian, because if you read in Kazakh, then sorry, figs you will understand the meaning. And my daughter is a doctor with a higher education, they have the same problem, you see, to accept the Latin terms as it is, Kazakh linguists consider it beneath their "dignity".
Take off the PINK glasses!

[Focuser]

Quote: ia-ai00

From Kazakhstan, but the flag is USA !?

Do not pay attention to the USA flag. In this case, this is a feature of our local provider Beeline!
And happy holiday to you, Olga!

[Marek Rozny]

1. Tuff, jaeger sen orysha tusinbesen, sagan kazaksha zhazu kerek ne? Men Astanaada turamen! Provider - "Beeline" -dep ayttym goy.
2. Pavlograd is not a typo. This is banal ignorance. Who would think of a city name in Kazakhstan’s head? Pavlodar he is Pavlodar. In addition, he thinks that Astana and Tselinograd are two different cities. What else can I talk about? Also a typo? Or do Kazakhstanis not know what Astana was called before?
3. You perfectly understood me - I’m talking about the main streets of the city. What are the small streets on the outskirts - I have no idea with either the old name or the new one. The main part of the city streets is known to me. Yes, even if it were necessary - I would learn 170 new words even in Chinese in a month, without even straining. Do you yourself know all 170 old names? I won’t believe it if you say that you know them. They do not occur in life at all. It’s just that you wanted to protect the conspirator, and in the end, you protect the crap of the provocateur, and not the person himself.
4. Gee, I was in Petropavlovsk for the last time six months ago. Beautiful, clean, quite comfortable town. And if you really want to check where I come from, write in a personal letter, give my Kazakhstan number - call and tell us where Kazakhstan is located)))))
5. "Miner" in Kazakh is "kenshi" (from the word "ken" - ore, deposit, mine). So don't compose.
In addition, if you have stupid Kazakhs at work who simply do not speak the Kazakh language, then let them read SNIPs and GOSTs in ... Russian. Or is it unknown at work that they exist in nature? And to those Kazakhs who, according to your words, do not understand the technical Kazakh language, give a dictionary. At least downloaded from the Internet.
By the way, do you know under what circumstances the words "pilot" and "airplane" appeared? I hasten to please, they came up with them "to spite the West" in order to get rid of the foreign words "pilot" and "airplane". In the 20th century, Russian philologists composed tons of Newspeak words. And the Germans with the Flyughafen I mentioned instead of the "airport" are also bastards trying to get rid of other people's words? ))) Do you know that France is waging an all-out war against foreign words in its language? And that in Icelandic there is not a single borrowed word at all - all words are reinvented. Word formation is a normal natural process in any language. But just do not show the Kazakhs as some kind of rams who cannot appreciate the charm of a foreign word. Moreover, when there are historical alternatives to many words. Including, in medical terms. It was in the East that medicine was advanced, and in the West they did not even know about hygiene. These are the treatises of "Kazakh" Al-Farabi and "Tajik" Ibn Sina were copied into Latin, and not vice versa.

[Alibekulu]

In general, who wants to see something and sees. Came here to us, immigrants. So a specialist, they searched all the garbage dumps .. Then they uploaded the photos to classmates I have a great feeling that this is a lot Russian (I emphasize, not everyone) it gives you a kind of pleasure. That in the Russian Federation there is none ???

[Max Russian]

Are you from RK? Here I can tell you, as a person living here, all progress is only due to connections (mainly tribal). There are bosses among the Russians, but the overwhelming majority of them are production workers (but there are less and less of them). They don't go to the army here, they are called up to the army here. And the police, again, only through connections (this is the power, and the Kazakhs do not refuse power). 60% of Kazakhs do not use the Kazakh language, and therefore do not use it, because it is constantly changing, there is no clear generally accepted doctrine for the development of kaz. language, he himself was trained, courses ... whoever wants, he presents it, inventing some words, replacing, etc. I live (for now) in RK and I know what I'm talking about. And I am from one of the most "Russian" cities of the Republic of Kazakhstan from Pavlodar. Respectfully all.

[Marek Rozny]

1) Tribal ties ... Pffff ... I have worked enough in different structures, incl. and state, never faced with the fact that I need to look for "tribal" ties. Maybe everything is simpler: if a person is a fool, then he wants to believe that the "zhuz system" is to blame? Marchenko, Bozhko, Kulagin, Dernovoi, Dyachenko and others - from which zhuz?
2) The Slavs in Kazakhstan usually "mow" from the army. Why be modest? The army consists of practically only ethnic Kazakhs. If you have never been to a military unit, look at the photos and videos on the Internet, compare how many Slavic people there are and how many Kazakhs. Questions will disappear by themselves. Law faculties and military universities are also mainly composed of Kazakhs. The police will not be accepted into the police without military service or specialized education.
3) Another "expert" of the Kazakh language. We all know how Russians are in Kazakh language - from under the duress, reluctantly, and do not perceive anything. Because none of the Russians thinks that he needs this language. If you teach with this approach for 20 years, you will not learn anything. You will only find excuses, they say, there is no doctrine, there are a lot of new words (you might think they know old words), supposedly the language is changing, allegedly Kazakhs do not speak it, etc. Kazakhs understand perfectly well that you JUST DO NOT WANT to know him. That's all. Russians do not want to know Kazakh, Ukrainian or Latvian languages. Everywhere they are "hindered". Russian shoviks are so fond of telling how smart and talented they are, but the Kazakh language (which is sometimes called primitive by people like the local "washi") is not given to them. Kazakhs should be proud that they speak such an extremely complex language and feel sorry for the Russian shoviks, who fight with all their might, but still cannot learn at least "bazaar-shop" vocabulary in 20 years.
4) Do you live "for the time being" in Kazakhstan? Can you get ready already? What are we waiting for? I saw your comments. You are frank natsik. What contempt you have for the Kazakhs is evident from the phrase about "natasha and ahmedov". Did you complain there that there was not enough money to move? Lend you money?

[Max Russian]

Contempt for nat. the sign is not mine. I’m not complaining to anyone about anything, but thanks for the money, but I’ll figure it out without you. And it seems that you are an Natsik and an instigator.

[Marek Rozny]

Reread what you wrote contemptuously about "Akhmedov" there. Everything is clear here. And you yourself complain about how "hard" it is for the Russians and that they dream of leaving, but allegedly there is not enough money. Who are you after that? "Kazakh-loving non-wearing patriot of Kazakhstan" or what? )))))) What time are you stalling? You yourself clearly write that sooner or later you will get out of here. Go ahead and with the song. What are we waiting for?

[Tatarus]

Yes, you are not Marek. You are some kind of Nursultan.

[Tatarus]

Each Kazakh minus only confirms my innocence. Do not you understand? They would try to show that a sense of humor is inherent in all of you, I would be wrong. And so ... Well, you understand?

[Tatarus]

I've been right twice already

[Marek Rozny]

chill out Vasya.

[Alibekulu]

From the Republic of Kazakhstan, and I am from one of the most (as you write) "Russian" cities of the Republic of Kazakhstan from Kostanay. What kind of tribal ?? !! Sibling, it will be more accurate. (here, as they say, you won’t throw words out of a song) But the situation is similar in general in Russia. You relate to Kazakhstan with the same stereotypes as foreigners regard Russia and Russians: vodka, matryoshka, bears on the streets of Moscow
Sincerely.

[Kasym]

Hello Vasily! What was in the 90s and what is now is a big difference. In addition to the highway Astana (Tselinograd) -Alma-Ata, there is the Mangistau region (West of the republic) -oil and gas; Pavlodar, Ust-Kamenogorsk, Karaganda - industry, the south of the country - the breadbasket of the republic, grain regions. But what can I say, look at the country's gold and foreign exchange reserves - they have passed the $ 80 billion mark (more per capita than in Russia). New industries (cars, helicopters, cars, locomotives, aluminum, nuclear industry, energy), new cars and railways, pipelines, power plants, cities are being transformed. We say: "This is only the beginning of the path." Look at the Kazakhstan 2030 program, which is progressing at a faster pace.
Yes, they agree, there is both poverty and disruption, and we don’t like everything. But we look to the future with optimism. We rebuilt the new capital and continue to build it. And most importantly - we live, not exist!

[washi]

Sorry, I wrote to your compatriot a little higher. If you knew how insulting it is to see that the school where you studied was demolished, the trees that you planted in the steppe were cut down. We all hope for the best, but what will happen after the death of Nazarbayev. You have had nationalism and have it. The Kazakhs raped my classmate and there was nothing for them. The Slavs live in enclaves, just like the Arabs in Israel. Who have the courage to leave.

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

Who have the courage to leave.

And I thought that on the other hand? This is if you "turn on" the logic
.

Quote: Vasya

The Slavs live in enclaves, just like the Arabs in Israel.

Cool comparison.
I wonder how 26-year-old Pavel Kulagin became akim of one of the districts of Astana?

[washi]

Sorry, but almost everyone left the city. And throwing a house in the village is more difficult. Near Dolinka, Novodolinka, etc.
Yes FIG knows. Maybe a young handsome attractive. I’ve read the article here, so we have half a doom. Zhirik while traveling around the country constantly requires boys. And you, given the sharp Muslimization of the population, this is not a sin at all

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

. And you, given the sharp Muslimization of the population, this is not a sin at all

Is this an attempt to insult?

[washi]

Well no. I would like to - offended. There are simply people, but there are ......... in power. And these .... I don’t really like what we have, what you have. And in general, I do not like this division

[Marek Rozny]

you insulted Muslims by writing garbage about homosexuals and Islam, which supposedly endorses it. go read something about Islam.

[Tatarus]

Stomp on the Islamic site. Or in your Kazakh. Zadolbali neighboring guests. Came to the Russian resource and rude to the owners. Yes, I’d better argue with the Dagestanis about education or with the Chechens about the war. We have a common land. You are not our brothers and there is nothing to teach us to live.
In general, the site’s administration should track all Kazakh statements in the spirit of nationalism. And then they created the Diaspora here. You can say a little about the Kazakh minus a flock. I think it’s not right. Or everything is as ours or blow into your great TURKistan.

[Earthman]

Quote: Tatarus

Stomp on the Islamic site.

and what is this contemptuous statement? By this you do not show your ignorance? You still say this to the Muslims of Russia. Why are you better than us after such pride, you live in a den and don’t want to know anything, so go ahead, why flood here, Cyril, Ayai even argued with Marek, and you’re just like in a den

Quote: Tatarus

Came to the Russian resource and rude to the owners

Can you give thanks to your enemies the Americos? thank for Windows, through which you write here, thank the Norwegians for the Opera and pray for the five-day "namaz", say thank you to China or in Chinese for your computer. Here is your Chauvinism in its purest form, still sit and pretend, "Why is this happening, what is it, I am not that, I am that"

Quote: Tatarus

Yes, I’d better argue with the Dagestanis about education or with the Chechens about the war.

Strong over weak do not laugh

Quote: Tatarus

We have a common land. You are not our brothers and there is nothing to teach us to live.

It’s immediately obvious that an ignorant chauvin is sitting in a den. And who fought in the war, and Tashkent is a bread city, and bullets, and meat, and a shelter ???? This is your respect, huh?

Quote: Tatarus

In general, the site’s administration should track all Kazakh statements in the spirit of nationalism.

You are obviously a Kazakhophobe, I suppose I have played enough Contra Strike and want to destroy the first Kazakh. The site administration has something to worry about, it is about a large number of Chauvinists on the site, Kazakh nationalism appears after Russian chauvinism, not before.

Quote: Tatarus

You can say a little about the Kazakh minus a flock. I think it’s not right. Or everything is as ours or blow into your great TURKistan.

Are you worried about the pros and cons? You obviously are somehow strange, do not be offended and write back or snitch with a complaint. You are not for the sake of real statements of people of different countries on the site? Do you like the agitation of Russian politicians? If so, then you can continue to live in a lie. Thanks to the admins for the site, they originally thought of it in order to more or less create an objective opinion as they communicate. And what is this contempt for the Turks? You love Chechnya, Tatarstan, Bashkiria, Dagestan, and how did you manage to hate the Turks? Turkophobe You, all tied Russia to shame, go your own way and never go to the Turkic topics and do not comment if you hate the Turks so much, although you love Tatarstan, Chechnya, Dagestan.

At least do not lie to yourself

[Marek Rozny]

Kazakhs are the indigenous population of Russia. Deuce to you for knowing your own country. The Kazakhs abundantly poured Russian soil with their blood, protecting it. In our family, tsarist, Soviet, Russian awards for a couple of kg. Go into the fog with your bullshit. And if you want to find Natsik, read the statements of your comrades who began to pour open and veiled insults at the Kazakhs. The Kazakhs did not say a single bad word regarding the Russian people. Learn to read in Russian.

[REDARMYpartizan]

Kapets as he looks like a troll, but stopudovo he is. Some kind of liberoid hike. Do not feed the troll.

[Marek Rozny]

what a blessing that you left Kazakhstan and no longer spoil our air.

[Lopatov]

Suitcase-station-Russia?

Are you going to stop? And so for twenty years of independence, the number of Russian population from 38 to 24% managed to reduce.

[marshes]

Quote: Spade

And so for twenty years of independence, the number of Russian population from 38 to 24% managed to reduce.

For this, the Kazakhs increased due to immigrants and high birth rates.
And in Russia, how are you doing?

[Lopatov]

As it was, it remains. By the way, the number of Russians in absolute numbers has almost halved. I would not call such a situation normal.

[marshes]

Quote: Spade

By the way, the number of Russians in absolute numbers has almost halved. I would not call such a situation normal.

And why not let them out? Moreover, Russia is actively pursuing a resettlement program with us. Here five years ago the neighbors left for Lipetsk according to the program, now they live according to the Russian passport. You still have benefits, early retirement, we have 58 women at 63 years old.
And how many soldiers left.

[Lopatov]

Just because people do not leave. So, not everything is good in this area.

[marshes]

Quote: Spade

. So, not everything is good in this area.

A lot of people are dying, the birth rate of Russians is small.

[Lopatov]

Twice in 20 years? This is not a birth rate, this is leaving

[Beck]

Quote: Spade

Just because people do not leave. So, not everything is good in this area.

And when Russians fell from Russia in 90, how and why? It was such a time.

There are comments with claims to the Kazakh language in Kazakhstan and crying for the Russian language in Kazakhstan. And why?

The Russian language is in demand everywhere in Kazakhstan and no one even thinks to limit it somehow. State documents do not count; they are state documents in order to be compiled on the state.

And this is the cry of some, who, moreover, as they say themselves, were born and raised in Kazakhstan is generally inappropriate. It gives birth to and grow up in Kazakhstan and does not know a couple of Kazakh words by neglecting the country in which they were born and raised, the language of this country, and therefore the people of this country.

The Caucasian peoples, Turks, Chechens, Ingush, Kurds in Kazakhstan, by the will of bad luck, learned and knew the Kazakh language by 80 percent. Germans, Poles knew 20 percent. And the Russians ....

And now claims and high. I wish I went to America to live and would refuse to learn English. Moreover, I would put forward claims, they say where are Kazakh schools here.

[Lindon]

Therefore, probably all Russians from Russia go to the West.

[Marek Rozny]

Lopatov, the Kazakhs are always glad to normal Russians (of whom the majority). But we do not need any rabble, be it Russian or Kazakh. I doubt the adequacy of this washi. With such a mindset as his, he was probably hit in the head more than once in Kazakhstan. And their own Russians, so that the nation does not disgrace.

[Focuser]

This Vasya is a troll! Not the fact that he generally lived in Kazakhstan.

[washi]

Yeah of course.
And in what point do you live?

[Tatarus]

Quote: Focker

This Vasya is a troll!

Why, as soon as the troll is so immediately against the Kazakhs?
Speak not to the Nazis?

[Tatarus]

Kazakhs are again minus. The Nazis are the humiliation of their own nation.

[Beck]

Quote: Tatarus

Kazakhs are again minus. The Nazis are the humiliation of their own nation.

In the mail, your komente for March 10, where you urge administrators to establish control on a national basis, is, is not on the page. Admins probably did not miss.

Admins of your idiotic-chauvinistic call will not hear, First of all, there are adequate people. Secondly, for a site resource, the more visitors, the better. Business.

And further. Have you come here for marshal's epaulettes? And then your cry - the Kazakhs zamusunusut, climbs from all your cracks. When I go to the page about the Battle of Kulikovo, it never crossed my mind to yell that I русские minus. People minus or plus, or go further. These are the rules of the site of the three options, choose any. Because of your nationalism, you want to turn simple communication into a problem. If you really need it, I will draw marshalsky poogy and send you, leave the address, I can send ten pairs of epaulettes.

The political leadership of our countries is discussing how best to build the EurAsEC, so as not to fall under the Chinese ice rink, respond to America, and confront Europe. And here Taturus he showed up on the site and vilifies Russian interests in all hail, he doesn’t put his closest partners in anything. And Tatarus knows how to write, and read, and probably counts, but I think thinking soberly, without chauvinism, it just can not.

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: Spade

And so for twenty years of independence, the number of Russian population from 38 to 24% managed to reduce.

From Russia, too, about 10 million Russian left!

[washi]

You know, citizen, not only I left. They threw too many apartments, work, studies.
Nefig was selling businesses to the Angles. And if you invite the Kazakhs from abroad, then at least make them YOUR language to learn, and do not adapt to them. I understand that there are no problems with housing. Many left simply leaving their apartments, but nonetheless ... Think about inviting someone to your place.
Tselinograd, and near Astana. If you live nearby, take a photo for comparison. And also Pavlograd and Kustanay. These are regional centers. Then, if the desire remains, we reach the district centers - which are no longer there.

[Marek Rozny]

1) Kazakh repatriates have the same language as Kazakhs living in the KZ. And the new economic and political vocabulary is not so big that it would be a problem for their study. If you wish, you can learn all this terminology in a couple of days.
2) Apartments that were abandoned in small towns (in large cities were not abandoned) were transferred to the balance of local administrations. But now when the situation in the economy is different, the former owners have returned to sell this property, which they most often do not own (for decades no one paid for a communal apartment, the city administration paid for the repair of these apartments and transferred them to those in need).
3) Tselinograd - this is Astana. The city of Pavlograd in Kazakhstan has never been and never is. Maybe Pavlodar? Pavlodar and Kostanay are quite comfortable cities for living. I have been to them many times.
4) District centers are all in place. The situation in Russia with small nas.points is much worse.

[Lindon]

Kazakhs speak Russian like many other peoples of the USSR. What languages ​​did the Russians speak in the republics - only Russian.

[Lopatov]

Quote: marshes

I wonder how 26-year-old Pavel Kulagin became akim of one of the districts of Astana?

This does not mean anything. Single case. But if you said that every fifth akim in Kazakhstan is Russian, then yes, that would matter. I’m only afraid that this is not so.

[marshes]

Quote: Spade

the fifth akim in Kazakhstan is Russian, then yes, that would matter. I’m only afraid that this is not so.

Well, they are in the backstage, only they are aged and we need a military ID to apply for civil service. And a certain part of the population has no desire to serve. Although they made it possible to get paid training courses.

[Lopatov]

And among the deputies, too, every fifth. I will not believe in life that the Russians do not want to be bosses.

[marshes]

Quote: Spade

I will not believe in life that the Russians do not want to be bosses.

They want but they are few, those who are trying to push them into power.
http://www.zakon.kz/4468238-polnyjj-spisok-deputatov-mazhilisa.html
Here is a list of deputies.

[Lopatov]

Dear, everyday nationalism he is at the bottom, not at the top

[marshes]

Quote: Spade

Dear, everyday nationalism he is at the bottom, not at the top

It’s interesting how it manifests itself when Kazakhs switch to Russian when they communicate with Russian speakers.
Although we remember the scornful nicknames of the Kazakhs, it especially divorced from the 60s to 90s, the immigrants belonged to the indigenous population from high.

[Lopatov]

You know better.

[washi]

Sorry, but there was no nickname, personally for the Kazakhs. All Asians were called the same. From the experience of my service, I can differentiate many nationalities, tribes and nationalities. Question - why? In addition, there are such factors as the upbringing and education of both the subordinate and the parents.

[Marek Rozny]

don't fool around. every Kazakh has heard these offensive words from people like you - mambet, moor, chock, chuchmek, kalbit and so on. Or do you hear them for the first time, dreamer?

[Lindon]

Lies. Even nationality you write incorrectly "kazakh"

[Marek Rozny]

Shovels, Russian akims above our roof.

[Marek Rozny]

Vasya, again a lie. Dreamer, to say the least.

[Bekzat]

For Vasya, listen here they are generally bent, our Slavs live very well. Who wants to go to power, they learn the Kazakh language, I met people of the Slavs who know my native better than me, and not only the Slavs but also other nations. There are many couples where the husband is Russian / Ukrainian / Moldavian and Kazakh / Uzbek / Kyrgyz or vice versa, and live happily ever after. No need to judge by 90 years, you now come to visit us, you will see for yourself.

[kirill110]

Hello Kasym. I myself am from Kazakhstan. This is your speech by the Khabar agency.
here is a public debt http://www.zakon.kz/4538769-na-nachalo-2013-goda-gosudarstvennyjj.html
Reserves are all in the papers of the bourgeoisie.
There is a separate conversation about oil and gas, how many of these resources actually belong to the state, and how many have already been sold. You can also say about the production, we were arguing with Marek Rozny just now. There is no localization of production, everything is assembled from components by a large-scale assembly (the level of an advanced service station and a car repair plant) and the assembly has been like this for many years, I can give an example of Asia-Auto (for so many years, and we don't even supply carpets to cars). You can read the statements on the Kazakh forums about the early implementation of the 2030 program, I will not even comment. I'm not trying to blacken everything, I just want to see things realistically. And the reality is that it's time to end the "sucking" of finances from the budget for crazy projects for the construction of "aircraft carriers" in the steppes of Kazakhstan and start asking very hard questions from incompetent managers. Maybe even following the example of Stalin I.V.

[Marek Rozny]

Kirill,
1) The national debt of Kazakhstan is very small. And he is decreasing all the time. If desired, Kazakhstan will close this debt at a time without blinking an eye. The benefit of the state’s money is more than enough.
2) If you really follow the situation in the oil and gas industry, you should have known that Kazakhstan is steadily increasing its share in this sector. Moreover, Kazakhstan is actively working in this industry in other countries - CenterAsia, Georgia, Romania, etc., where the state-owned company KazMunayGas owns significant assets.
3) Regarding the assembly plants: a) we go along the South Korean route, they also started with the assembly of foreign equipment; b) for each enterprise there is an established level of localization; c) in Soviet times, there were no such enterprises in Kazakhstan at all - automobile manufacturing, production of aircraft, consumer electronics, etc.
4) Have you read the 2030 program yourself? Read, refresh your memory. And then tell me, is the program implemented as a whole or not.
5) We are not building aircraft carriers (although several dozen small ships have already been built for border guards and Moscow Region). But we need large projects in industry and infrastructure, this starts the economic process. Remember that the construction of Astana launched hundreds of large and medium-sized enterprises in the field of production of building materials. Moreover, these enterprises were opened throughout the republic. And now their products are for the development of other cities.
The project to save the Aral Sea has revived industrial fishing in this sea. And such "aircraft carriers" can still be named.

[kirill110]

1. (25,4 billion US dollars), or 12,2% of GDP, - nifiga blinking, since 12 years it has increased
2. Well, well, graters for high-octane gasoline will begin in the spring. http://i-news.kz/news/2013/03/06/6917081.html - for example, entertaining reading
3. Well, I don’t know which way we are going, although no, fraud and dough, facts to a localization studio in science-intensive and technologically complex industries (combines from Belarus with Yaroslavl diesels do not indicate, as last time, batteries unnecessary even to local collectors also). Facts
4. I read - IMHO, my opinion has not been fulfilled, many in Kazakhstan forums support my opinion, we can go through the points, but not in this forum
5. This was sarcasm on my part, we only had to build aircraft carriers - we’ll cut the loot on a feasibility study, designing shipyards ... but in few places, the project is huge
6. Yeah ... the name of the building materials and the share of Kazakhstani content in them, something more advertises the Volgograd tile, and the Samara system of porcelain, building mixtures with imported additives (only your sand). We make crushed stone, we make sand, cement in the plans to do glass (if it does not work like with Shymkent lamps), paint and varnish are all imported. Visit the store for 12 months in Astana ... take a look. These are the "aircraft carriers" ... something like that
You should go to the government - to report to the leadership (the background can be the melody "All is well beautiful marquis")
I repeat that I do not gloat, but I do not like fraud, here on the forum everyone is trying to somehow embellish everything, but why? Who are you kidding?

[Marek Rozny]

Kirill,
1) Press service of the Ministry of Finance of the Republic of Kazakhstan: "The public debt as of January 1, 2013 amounted to 3 billion tenge (828,3 billion US dollars), or 25,4% of GDP, including external - 729,7 billion tenge (4,8 billion US dollars)"And the journalists gave information without specifying about the internal and external debts. So do not worry, we do not owe much to the bourgeoisie.
For comparison, a year ago, the external public debt was 5,2 billion dollars.
2) regarding localization - go to any site of such an enterprise, everything is painted there.
For example, locomotives:
".. At the initial stage, the production process was simply" screwdriver "- only the assembly of the locomotive from spare parts purchased from GE was carried out. In order to increase profitability, the enterprise is actively working to increase the share of local content in the plant's products. This process is divided into 3 stages ... Since the beginning of 2012, the plant’s specialists have fully mastered the second phase, and now the Kazakh content in the manufacture of each locomotive is 32%, or more than 11 items for each TE000A. In 33, this figure will be 2014%.".
Cars: "Hyundai Auto Kazakhstan has increased the percentage of domestic content of components to 20 percent. Thus, batteries are installed from Kazakhstani production."
In general, in the automotive industry, the level of localization in the near future will be brought to 30-50 percent.
3) What exactly do you consider unfinished under the 2030 program?
4) Regarding building materials - firstly, in Kazakhstan during the Soviet era they were practically not produced, but were brought from Russia (except for bricks). Now a lot of building materials are being produced. Kazakhstani glass will appear at the end of 2014. We are already producing glass containers (in Soviet times, they were also imported from Russia).

[kirill110]

According to the Kazakhstan content, it is very interesting, especially for cars. I will try to find out for myself what is really there from the Republic. I’ll even go to Asia-Auto Astana. I will applaud standing to the government when I go to the store and buy auto parts of local production and acceptable quality (no worse than analogues from Korea, Japan and Europe). So far, I have seen papers claiming, for example, that when purchasing computer equipment there is a significant proportion of Kazakhstani content (the paper will bear it)
here is a link to an article by Peter Svoik http://www.zonakz.net/articles/61188 - the picture is not so joyful, but numbers and arguments are given. This is for the 2030 program

[Marek Rozny]

Auto parts made in Kazakhstan are not sold in stores. So far it is not profitable for subcontractors. What they produce is 100% bought by the car factory. As soon as the number of "Kazakhstani" car brands reaches a certain critical mass, Kazakhstani spare parts for them will appear on sale. Now, there is no point in doing this yet. Moreover, the machines of our assembly are new and do not require special repairs yet. If spare parts are released for sale, then they will lie dead for a long time with sellers.

With regard to computing technology. Oddly enough, but manufacturers do not really play with their souls when they talk about partial localization. In Kazakhstan, a certain share of spare parts for computers is produced. For example, http://www.kkinterconnect.kz/rus/company/ I can recall the company Logicom, which has been riveting spare parts for computers since 2008 (they bought machines in Korea). Well, I will add that software is also added to the "localization" in this case. On the whole, large-scale production of spare parts for PCs should be expected next year, when the Alatau technopark will actually start functioning. Our "Silicon Valley" will be there. They have been trying to launch the Technopark for several years already; in the process, a lot of legal and economic problems have emerged. It took several years to perfect the laws for the development of high-tech production. And they will also be polishing.

I read my article. Again, he froze garbage, for each paragraph of his article you can get to the bottom. His just a whiner. He wrote all the 90s and 2000s that in the country everything is getting worse and worse. And every year predicts the collapse of Kazakhstan - political, economic, ethnic. He will never write a positive forecast. Because he seasoned "professional" oppositionist... And in the 90s I also remember my openly anti-Kazakh nationalist articles in "Caravan".
And his article is another vyser, frankly.

[kirill110]

Regarding everything above, these are the words, I, as an ordinary consumer, go to the store. I want to buy "consumables" for a car, for example, they are not under the local brand. It is a fact. Even a new Mercedes requires maintenance (filters, brake pads, etc. - everything that changes according to the regulations). I go to a hardware store, there are imports, I go to a furniture store - there are 90% imports, I buy electronics in "White Wind" - there are 100% imports, I go to a grocery store - 50% or more imports. I would really like to buy local and high-quality, but when I wrote you a comment, I looked around to find at least something from a local manufacturer - it became scary (equipment - China under license, laptop from Ireland, clothes from Southeast Asia, furniture too brought, a cinema from Japan, you can list further and further). It becomes scary that apart from milk from the Rodina state farm, it’s hard to find something with me. You wrote about construction, like the industry was not developed in Kazakhstan, I will tell you that in Tselinograd (then still) there were 2 reinforced concrete structures, there is not a single one now, everyone was shocked. Now they are looking for a manager + a lot of money for a project for the construction of panel houses - here's a small example. + to this it was decided to deny people a free 10 acres (only the Communists and Ak Zhol were indignant). After all, it is necessary to pull communications and social programs, and who needs it .... officials do not need it. I affirm that with such a level of management it is generally dangerous to give money for projects, and I agree with Kasym that we must be very strict in asking for all "wonderful" projects.
http://www.kkinterconnect.kz/rus/pr_communication/ - вот с вашего сайта, письмо и 2 товарища что-то делают паяльником (ну никак не подходит для серьезного производства, я приглашу 3-х друзей, мы достанем паяльники- сфотографируемся, потом будем push implement iPad - we all manufacture tablets) ... it doesn’t look like the Foxconn workshop, for example, the photo shows a large assembly, glad that at least in Belarus the vendor is not sealed with its name.
Conclusion: even if you don’t like Svoik, a citizen of a country will feel that he lives in a truly independent and prosperous country only when he goes into the store and sees with his eyes an alternative with the inscription Made in Kazakhstan and until that happens (and for some reason that's all has not happened for many years) such as Svoik will be partly right about the commodity economy, and no matter how not very coherent achievement of the 2030 program.
P / S, maybe someday, when industry starts working - I’ll go to production, I don’t have any satisfaction in servicing the bureaucratic machine.

[Marek Rozny]

In Kazakhstan, you want to produce everything and everything? This is stupid for a country with 16 million people. Switzerland produces chocolate and watches, Finland produces paper and phones, all countries have their own niches. To do mass production of auto parts for free sale in KZ is corny is not profitable. We mainly have old used car models that will soon be scrapped. How do you imagine this process? What kind of spare parts? What brands to make parts for? And what is the market for this spare part? and what are the future prospects for the sales of this spare part? To make spare parts for all brands of automobiles is generally unrealistic. Especially, given that Russia makes spare parts for Russian cars itself, and Chinese, German and Japanese spare parts go to foreign cars.
We do not need the auto industry in order to become a global giant in auto building, we need it in moderate doses in order to generally develop engineering in Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan is unlikely to become a global manufacturer of cars, but the staff that will appear at related enterprises will have a beneficial effect on the entire Kazakhstani industry. For the sake of these small subcontractors, who will learn how to produce spare parts, and then the other non-profile non-automotive technical shmurdyak, the whole idea was started with the automotive industry.

Furniture is usually made of wood. A tree in Kazakhstan is not cut. The basis for the production of furniture is bought only abroad, in countries where wood and jungle are massively cut.

About electronics. A considerable part of household appliances - "made in KZ" - TVs, DVDs, karaoke, etc. The LG plant alone is worth something. Computer equipment is mainly foreign.
Food already said. Fruits and vegetables in our country do not grow as much as in other countries, and accordingly it is easier and cheaper to make many food products from them. We have another sharpening.
The clothes are made of silk and cotton, roughly speaking. In Kazakhstan, purely by climatic conditions, the possibilities of producing such raw materials are limited. In general, this sector is better for the Kyrgyz to leave. Let them do it. We will waste labor resources in other areas.

The dairy industry is related to the problem of cows. We are reducing the number of Soviet cows, gradually replacing them with still small herds of foreign breeds. Give time, the herds will grow larger, milk will go. Moreover, our breeds were traditionally mostly meat, not dairy. In addition, in Soviet times, the dairy industry in the KZ was generally barely developed compared to its neighbors. We didn’t even make canned milk or condensed milk. And now you wonder where our dairy industry is. It never really was in comparison with other republics of the USSR. We didn’t even produce elementary products - mayonnaise, for example. And then - until recent years, Almaty residents, for example, saw Kazakhstani mayonnaise only in soft polyethylene tubes, twisted on both sides with aluminum wire Here was our first mayonnaise in the 90s)

Reinforced concrete products produced only slabs made of reinforced concrete. There were no wallpapers, paints, linoleum, drywall, tile and other building materials in the Kazakh SSR.
ZhBK factories stood up, because in the 90s new houses were not needed. A lot of people left, a lot of apartments were empty. What would you suggest doing at that time? To pay people 15 years of salary just like that and produce unnecessary panels? Who is to blame for the fact that local directors could not readjust production to more relevant products?

Kazakhstan will never produce anything and everything. We will have several main areas and important infrastructure facilities, and we will purchase any small things from our neighbors. Now, when we have a lot of labor reserves, then we will try to dress, shoe and feed the whole world like China.

[kirill110]

I agree that everything is impossible to produce, but what are these several directions? From our last conversation, as I understand you, it is beneficial for us to produce .... satellites and spacecraft. How can a country be independent when there is no clothing, fruit, meat (we import in large quantities), building materials, etc. It is theoretically profitable to sell raw materials and buy everything - there is no headache. We do not have a true direction in development, everyone grabs everything at once, everyone pulls a blanket over himself, and it turns out that we will make missiles and cars and electric locomotives ... we get two hares. Behind all this is a cut of money. As a result, they are not particularly invested in ordinary projects, everyone wants to have a profitability of 200, 300% and a super duper of production. As a result, everything is not profitable for us ... but Israel in the desert grows vegetables and fruits ... is also not profitable, but they ensure their food safety.

[kirill110]

without providing ourselves with the most necessary things, we will always depend on the "older" brother, no matter what they say, so why all these disputes about the injustice of China and Russia towards Kazakhstan. we addicted from them.

[Marek Rozny]

If we buy vegetables in Uzbekistan, and chicken in the USA - then where does some "big brother" have to do with it ???
By the way, even the US does not produce everything. And even China. And even Russia. And even (!) The USSR.

[Earthman]

Quote: kirill110

Without providing ourselves with the most necessary things, we will always depend on the "older" brother, no matter what they say, so why all these disputes about the injustice of China and Russia towards Kazakhstan. We depend on them.

You are some kind of boring and petty person, really, to think, you must necessarily nudge And How?

[Lindon]

This is called globalization and specialization. Someone produces oil, and someone writes software, builds airplanes and cars. All depend in some way on other countries. The United States is sitting on a needle from China in consumer goods, for example.

[Marek Rozny]

What is profitable for us to produce? In the agrarian sector - meat, grain, beets and their derivatives. In industry - something that is not produced in the countries of the CU (or there are different analogues - new types of electric locomotives, small aircraft, various types of household electrical equipment, building materials, uranium fuel, medicines, oil products and plastics, etc.

The production of satellites will push our science and high-tech allies. When it comes to the production of missiles, it refers to the financing of these works in Russia or Ukraine. Our government is not going to build a rocket production plant yet.

About fruits and meat, I already answered you.

In Israel, it is beneficial to grow fruits and vegetables. But they have to import grain, meat, sugar. Well, they do not grow durum wheat and sugar beets, unlike Kazakhstan. But in my opinion, nobody there sprinkles ashes on their heads. They strengthened the emphasis on what MAY grow there.
Well, and about the Israeli food troubles - there is also a religious component.

[Marek Rozny]

Regarding Israel, I decided to read. Here is what I found in the Israeli press:

"The negative gap between imports and exports of food continues to grow. In 2010, the gap was 1,14 billion shekels - 13% more than in 2009. Due to the expected rise in world food prices, the trade deficit in the Israeli food industry will worsen even more, economic newspaper TheMarker reported today.

In 2010, the volume of food and beverage exports increased by 10% compared to 2009 and amounted to $ 791.7 million, while food and beverage imports increased by 12% compared to 2009 and amounted to -1,922 million. In other words, as is clear from the data published by the Israeli Association of Food Processing Enterprises, Israel imports more food than it manages to sell abroad., and since food prices are rising all over the world, it means that in the near future they will jump (due to expensive imported products) and we have ...

Food imports from the EU to Israel increased in 2010 by 6% and amounted to $ 950 million ...
Regarding trade with the United States, data show that exports and imports are balanced. Exports of Israeli products to the United States increased in 2010 by 11% to $ 153 million, while imports of American products to Israel increased by 13% to $ 164 million ...
ZMAN.com "

This is Israeli food "security" ...

[Tatarus]

Well, finally, you recognized that Kazakhstan is not a paradise on earth. Just a heroic act. Personally for you.

[Lindon]

Where is paradise? In Russia? In Grozny? He is paradise in the homeland - there is no other.

[Earthman]

What is your life worth without milk, water, meat, bread?

What is your life without a laptop and social networks?

Without technology you won’t die, there are books, without products you yourself know what will happen.
Or to death you want not to buy local products? Therefore, the most important thing is the products, the main part of our production. I love milk produced in Kazakhstan and the cheapest, it is the most natural, I do not buy Russian or Belarusian milk, their quality is not so hot.

With such an argument as yours, I have a question, do you want to go to the Six or Five before the end of your life ???

Or buy a Mitsubishi or other foreign car?

[kirill110]

We have different views, I judge as an ordinary citizen who goes to the store. But you are not a boring, broad-minded person. Yes, you can read books, you can live in a cave ... just that I want to buy local products. Milk you love! In Astana, from the more or less natural 2 producers of everything (Rodina, Zinchenko) - this is a huge agricultural region, the rest is made from milk powder. And here is six and five? I have a new car and unfortunately (or fortunately) without local spare parts and Russian. I consider further discussion useless. I better agree with you - we are number one, and in 2050 we will be the best.

[Marek Rozny]

My uncle in Jacques has a small dairy. According to him, the fact that in the beginning of the 90s they decided to make all collective farmers farmers and distributed cows to all was to blame. What did the collective farmers do? Yes, they ruined this business. Uncle's number one problem is the quality of the milk he buys from private farmsteads. There one day one quality, and the next day - the same cow gives milk of a different quality. As a result, it is very difficult to comply with all technological standards in his factory.
Here in the homeland the head of the collective farm turned out to be with his head. Managed to unite these "farmers" at the very beginning and eventually created a strong farm. It is not for nothing that the President personally awarded him several times.
Yes, and the village itself in a very decent form. I was there in 2005 - a very pleasant impression remained. Even visited a local disco)))
In general, I already wrote here about milk. So we just have to wait until the Ministry of Agriculture completes its program on the dairy industry. I am glad that they are dealing with this issue. With a creak, but things are moving. At least, we have already lost the habit of shouting "milk, kefir, sour cream" (in Almaty every morning I woke up from these shouts), but we buy a normal product in the store. By the way, I myself buy either Rodin's milk in soft packaging (regular), or foodmaster's Laktel (which is "long-term storage") or Russian Shadr's milk (when you need concentrated). Or, more often than not, food masters' cream.

Quote: kirill110

we are number one, and in 2050 we will be the best.

This is our way. In Russian and Kazakh! :)

[Lindon]

Isn’t we producing milk at all? Lies. The EU and China are simply killing the market with their milk powder.

[Lindon]

You might think in Russia where all the cars of the brand "Zhiguli, Muscovites, GAZ, UAZ, etc." someone to ride a domestic. Everybody takes the Japs and the Germans.

[Kasym]

Hello Kirill 110!
By public debt. There are state. debt, and there is corporate debt. These are two big differences and you can’t mix them. For example, if a Chevron company (USA) or a Russian Lukoil invests its money in the development of Tengiz, then this is their business and risks too. This is corporate debt, why should we be responsible for this? The state is not responsible for these investments.
Oil and gas . Do you know that a law has been passed, according to which any company that decides to sell its assets in Kazakhstan in the oil and gas sector, is obliged first of all to offer them to our state. That is, the state has privileges in their redemption. For example, last year the state received a 10% stake in the largest Karachaganak field, and it was practically free. There were violations by the developers. Kazakhstan imposed fines, but instead of money received a package of 10%.
As for the nodal assembly. This is the world experience - China, Japan, Korea, etc. . For example, the creation of one new engine requires a cost of 1 dollars. . Creating a platform approximately climbs the same amount. The construction and creation (equipping) of a plant with a conveyor and a full cycle will crawl out at $ 000. . And personnel, and components (different types of plastics, electronics, etc.)? The astronomical sum will come out. While we will create this with all related enterprises, our plant is already outdated. Easier to attract foreigners. And then gradually replace imported components with domestic ones. At the same time, government costs are significantly reduced at the expense of investors (they need to create only good conditions, some kind of favorable conditions for taxation, and infrastructure).
To be continued .

[Kasym]

To be continued.
Reserves. Keeping foreign currency savings in their little capsule is super stupid. It is better to keep the currency in the direction where it is produced. But Kazakhstan is following a slightly different path - shares of those companies that are of interest to us are bought back. First, by doing so, we can influence the policies of these companies and involve their technologies in KZ. Secondly, the shares of these companies are constantly growing in price (at least they will not burn out) and they are easy to sell. Therefore, Marek writes that if you wish, you can close government debt quickly. Actually, it’s not in vain that Marchenko (chairman of the National Bank) is considered the best financier in the CIS and is often interviewed by the media (three days ago his interview on TC RUSSIA 24 was shown).
And with corruption, Kiril, and the demand from bureaucrats, I absolutely agree with you. It is also throwing dust in the eyes of various levels of bureaucrats, this licking the president's ass. Tired of listening on all channels and newspapers to the Elbasy, and the Elbasy, "our unforgettable and radiant first president of the Republic of Kazakhstan, Nursultan Abishevich Nazarbayev," and so on, etc. ...

[Circle]

Woe to you when all people will speak well of you! for so did their fathers with the false prophets.
http://azbyka.ru/biblia/?Lk.6#sel=157:1,157:17

[kirill110]

And with corruption, Cyril, and demand from bureaucrats, I absolutely agree with you. It’s also blowing dust at the eyes of various levels of bureaucrats, this ass licking to the president
Hello Kasym. That's exactly what I wanted to say. It's not even insulting, but it's already funny to watch how they cut another ribbon, report "upward", and then everything ... there is no money (if loans from banks of the 2nd level, then the state will cover it, if from state-owned companies they write off), production no. Or there is production, but the product quality is terrible. Look at how they are building in Astana, 2-3 companies are building normally - the rest is just awful and so everywhere. But here on the forum, everyone is filled with nightingales, how wonderful everything is. And these are not only statements about our Republic. It's funny to hear how cool they are, we import meat from abroad, import half of the food, but we have to build rockets (this is about us), or hold a super Olympiad (Russia).

[Marek Rozny]

1) Most of the running enterprises are working. Only a small fraction of factories were unable to survive in the real economy. But that's what the market is for, so that the carp does not doze. If everything could have been 100% calculated initially, then Polaroid, SAAB and other monsters of world business would not have gone bankrupt, and not that the Petropavlovsk plant Biochem.
2) As for the construction of buildings, I agree here. Build anyhow. Several years ago, when I was buying an apartment, I initially gave up the idea of ​​taking a house in a new house. I chose the Old Center, and on it is a Soviet-made house of the 80s. It cost more than if I took a new building in a residential area, but I'm happy - it's warm, reliable, all the neighbors know each other. There is still not enough money for Highville, so I will wait with the move to another home)
3) Now about the meat. Kazakhstan imports meat in accordance with quotas for the CU countries. Now the numbers.
In 2013, Kazakhstan was allocated a quota for beef in the amount of 15,4 thousand tons, for pork - 9,7 thousand tons, for poultry meat - 100 thousand tons.
For comparison, in 2012, the import quota of chilled beef was approved in the amount of 0,02 thousand tons, frozen - 13,9 thousand tons. The quota for pork amounted to 9,4 thousand tons, poultry meat - 110 thousand tons. Everything outside the quota is subject to an increased tariff.
By structure, imports - 70% of meat - is chicken. In our time, poultry farming flew into tartarars, but now there is a positive trend, in the next couple of years, poultry imports should be halved by increasing their production.
In general, as a whole, you shouldn’t lament for meat. Meat consumption in the KZ is somewhere a little less than 1 million tons per year (970 thousand tons), while we produce somewhere around 930 thousand tons. So the bulk of the meat is Kazakhstani. Well, steaks from Argentinean beef and Norwegian salmon will still remain in the import structure. Because it’s delicious. Not just one horse-fed man)
Fruits and vegetables in the KZ and do not try to produce especially on a gigantic scale. Why do we need this? It’s easier and cheaper to buy from southern neighbors. And we better focus on meat and grain. This is our chip. Fruit is not ours. Let Uzbeks and Kyrgyz grow onions and carrots. They get it better by definition.

[Tatarus]

Quote: Kasym

"our unforgettable and radiant first president of the Republic of Kazakhstan, Nursultan Abishevich Nazarbayev"

So at your latitudes such a mentality. Now LUNOKY, then SUN-like.

[Lindon]

You probably don’t have this? In Russia, only the tsar - there is no other.

[QWERTY]

Well, of course, there are a lot of new railways ..... More are being built on one Oktyabrskaya road than in the whole of Kazakhstan. I have parents in Dzhambul, I ride train number 7-8 from time to time. Wooden sleepers, both built automation in the 70s, and everything is worth it. In the West it’s possible that they’re building oil to drive up.

[Marek Rozny]

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, several new track sections were built:
a) in June 2001, 184 kilometers of the Aksu-Konechnaya line. This line connected the North of Kazakhstan with the East.
b) The construction of the Khromtau-Altynsarino section (Kustanai region) was completed on October 18, 2003, connecting the North of Kazakhstan with the West. The length of the main lines is 402,5 km, station tracks - 40,22 km. There are 13 stations and siding, 11 bridges, 151 culverts.
c) The third section - connected Ust-Kamenogorsk with the Shar (Turksib) station, which eliminated the need to cross the Russian border twice, since earlier East Kazakhstan had railway communication with other regions of the country only through the Russian Lokot station, that is, the trains passed along the Zashchita route (Ust-Kamenogorsk) - Elbow - Semipalatinsk. Over 60 contracting organizations were involved in the construction, 153 km of the main railway track were laid (such is the length of the road) and more than 14 km of station tracks.

International corridors:
a) Khorgos-Zhetygen. 293 km of the main track were laid, 5 stations, 9 crossings, 28 bridges and two overpasses were built. The distance from China to the southern regions of Kazakhstan and the countries of Central Asia was reduced by about 500 km.
b) Uzen-state border of Turkmenistan. This section is 146 kilometers long. Two Bopay and Bolashak stations were built, as well as five roundabouts: Bastau, Akbobek, Taigyr, Kurmash, and Bestorkul. This road connects Kazakhstan with Iran (the Iranian part of the road is almost completed).

Projects:
In 2013, construction of a direct railway line from north to south-west of Kazakhstan will begin. At the moment, the question is being decided on which route to build. Two options are being worked out: Zhezkazgan - Kyzylorda - Beineu and Zhezkazgan - Saksaulsk - Beineu. The implementation of this project will significantly reduce the distance from Astana to the southwestern cities of Kazakhstan.

Also under consideration is the issue of the project for the construction of a high-speed line on the Astana-Aktobe route.

Recently announced the construction of a new high-speed railway Astana-Almaty through Lake Balkhash.

By 2020, Kazakhstan plans to build 1,4 thousand kilometers of new railways and electrify almost 3000 km of old roads.

[Kasym]

Ytsuken (George), about 1500 (I do not remember exactly) km of new railways. There is no such pace even in Russia. Only one branch along the border with Russia gave access to 40 deposits of various kinds of natural minerals. It is a fact .

[Lindon]

In Kazakhstan over 20 years railroad tracks were built more than in Russia over the same time.
Ways are not eternal wear and tear - rails and sleepers need to be changed.

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: Kasym

there is the Mangistau region (West of the republic) - oil and gas;

Yes, and Zhanaozen is there too!

[Beck]

Quote: Vasya

In Kazakhstan, all life along the Tselinograd - Alma-Ata highway

Vasya, Vasya, Cornflower, what kind of tale, like a child, are you blundering. Now, if your words in the form of a slogan are carried through at least 20 cities of Kazakhstan, then the Eurasian Economic Community will be covered with a basin at the same moment. You know how to think, or you can only scream URA.

And all the languages ​​of the world are invented thousands and thousands of years ago. And you started the gas so hard, your eyes didn’t corrode you from causticity? In my language, as in yours, people speak a long time ago. And what to invent if it is.

[washi]

I agree. There is and was the Kazakh language, which everyone in Kazakhstan studied in all schools. There was a study of Kazakh literature. Sorry, but purely from Kazakh writers I can only remember Abay Kunanbayev. The rest is either an epic or Soviet-Russian writers. Oh sorry. I forgot the surname of a Kazakh - a Russian officer who adapted the Cyrillic alphabet for the Russian language. But they came up with a bunch of new words. If the Russian language is simply borrowed (office-office, computer-computer, sales manager), then the Kazakhs also transform according to their own rules. It used to be just a pharmacy, but now? Sorry, but translate, please, the new Kazakh word pharmacy. The fact that a wild pig in Kazakh is a wild boar, I already remember.

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

Forgot the surname of a Kazakh - a Russian officer who adapted the Cyrillic alphabet for the Russian language

Cyril and Methodius?

[marshes]

Wow, Vasily you amused me.

[washi]

Who adapted the Cyrillic alphabet for YOU? I only remember that he served and was Kazakh by nationality.

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

Who adapted the Cyrillic alphabet for YOU? I only remember that he served and was Kazakh by nationality.

Cyrillic appeared in 1940.

[Kaa]

Quote: Vasya

I only remember that he served and was Kazakh by nationality.

Nn-well, if you take and believe Vicki (there is no time to dig further), something like this:
"Sarsen Amanzholovich Amanzholov was born on December 27, 1903 in the village of Eginsu, Ulan district, East Kazakhstan region.
He graduated from the Russian-Kazakh school in Katon-Karagay in 1916 and entered a real school in Ust-Kamenogorsk. However, due to financial problems, dropped out of school. After some time, he entered a three-month teacher training course in Semipalatinsk, after which he worked as a teacher in his native village. In 1924 he was invited to work as executive secretary of the executive committee of the East Kazakhstan region.
In 1926 he entered the Department of the Kazakh language and literature of the faculty of pedagogy at the Central Asian State University in Tashkent.
Since the fall of 1931, he began teaching at the Abay Kazakh Pedagogical Institute. Since 1932, he served as assistant professor. At this institute he worked for almost 30 years. At this time, he worked on the creation of textbooks, scientific programs.
In 1931, an ABC book appeared, in the creation of which he took an active part. The following year, “Grammar of the Kazakh language” by S. Amanzholov for the 4th grade was published. In the same year, under his editorship, a textbook of the Kazakh language for grades 1-3 was published. Later, in 1934-1940, he wrote a grammar textbook for secondary schools.
On November 10, 1940, at the 5th session of the Supreme Council of the Kazakh SSR, a draft of the new alphabet of S. Amanzholov was adopted.
From February 1942 to June 1946 S. Amanzholov was in active military service in the ranks of the Soviet Army. He conducted political and educational work among the fighters of non-Russian nationality, issued in Kazakh “The Notepad of the Red Army Agitator” and leaflets about the heroes of the Soviet Union.
In 1948 he defended in Moscow a dissertation on the ethnogenesis of the Kazakh people.

[washi]

According to Soviet-Kazakh textbooks, this was still under the tsar. Prior to this, these Greats did not need writing. They already remembered everything well

[Marek Rozny]

Vasya, he stepped up with his rubbish. in the textbooks of the Kazakh SSR and in modern ones, the alphabet is not mentioned at all.
in addition, before the Cyrillic alphabet, adopted in 1940, the Kazakhs used the Latin alphabet, and before that, Arabic. And even earlier, runic Turkic writing, Sogdian writing, Uyghur writing.

[Lindon]

Dense, when the king did not care what language the aborigines of the empire wrote.
There was a Latin from 1924 of the year, and after swearing with Turkey - Stalin transferred everyone to the Cyrillic alphabet - Tatar 1939 year, Kazakh -1940 year, Bashkir, etc.

[Marek Rozny]

Do you think that the Turks did not have pharmacies before the Russians? Maybe there was no medicine? In the Turkic language there is the word "darihana", so we do not need the word "pharmacy".
By the way, "airport" in German is "Flughafen". Do you want to spit out angry saliva here too?

[washi]

Thank. Reminded. As I understand it, we are already on you?
We are still kidding at the shop, sorry. Remind me please, please

[Marek Rozny]

a shop in Kazakh will be so - a shop. You can also say photo sherkhan or photo studio. no other way.

[GM.kz]

He said everything correctly and I was also surprised to learn that we have an opposition !!!

[super-vitek]

Kasym and Kazakhstan is so beautiful !!! I lived in Uch-Aral, Taldykurgan region. I still have such nostalgia !!! I would like to go, but far 4800 km !!! What kind of fishing, hunting, mountains, lakes !!! In general, we all need to unite! We lived under the Soviets, everyone was friends, somehow we got along, and now suddenly in 20 years all such independent people have become so disgusting! Nobody better cooked lamb than our friend Kazakh uncle Daulet, and from Alma "Ata I flew to Lviv to my grandmother, and for some reason there weren’t any nationalists there !!! It's time we all thought better of it! We lived in the same house for so many years, and now some western trash has come and pits us! I am for unification, in this is OUR POWER!

[Kasym]

Victor, remember the air of our steppe. This smell of wormwood. By the way, the cosmonauts who have returned from orbit, all as one say that after the stale air at the station, one just wants to "smear this smell on a piece of bread and eat, eat and eat." It is said to be the most thrilling post-landing experience they will never forget.

[super-vitek]

Cool said OUR! I myself am a Ukrainian, a purebred, retired dad, generally hardened. Saryshagan, Priozersk. Balkhash is one of the wonders of the world !!! You know when I read all this nonsense nationalistic, so bitter !!! Our steppe in Kazakhstan, our The Carpathians, our Baikal. Lived well !!! I often recall a childhood friend, Azat Chigibaev, a kid so artless, open, and then I did not care who he was on a national basis. And what they did !!! Well, as they say, they KILL hope the last.

[washi]

On March 4, President Putin met in Moscow, President of Ukraine Yanukovych. Shortly before that, Mr. Yanukovych participated in a summit with the leadership of the European Union. It took place against the background of the adoption by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine of a declaration on the inviolability of the course towards European integration.
As a result of that summit, the EU gave Ukraine a loan of 670 million euros for "conducting economic reforms." And already in November of this year, it is planned to sign the Association Agreement between Ukraine and the European Union.
It should be recalled that after the December meeting in 2012 with President V. Putin, V. Yanukovych instructed the Ministry of Economy to create a special commission and calculate the proposals of Russia and the European Union to Ukraine. To calculate specifically - in hryvnias, rubles and euros and give recommendations that are economically more beneficial for Ukraine: a Customs Union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan or a common space with the EU?
The Commission considered everything and concluded that in the economic sense, Russian proposals are more attractive. Then followed private meetings and meetings with V. Yanukovych and Prime Minister N. Azarov. As well as closed hearings in the Verkhovna Rada. Moreover, all significant Ukrainian “oligarchs” participated in all these events in person or through their representatives. Various informal meetings and negotiations took place between representatives of the highest Ukrainian authorities and the "oligarchs." As a result, a general decision was made: “Recognize economic reasons. But proceeding from the fact that the political decision on the course towards European integration is strategic in nature and cannot be reversed because of economic benefits. ”
After this underhanded fuss in Kiev, it becomes apparent that V. Yanukovych, at a meeting with Putin in Moscow, was forced to maneuver between the EU and Russia. Its main task is to smooth the results of the summit with the EU so that they do not worsen relations between Ukraine and Russia. He tried to achieve some preferences in exchange for the inhibition of the process of integration with the EU.
But this turned out to be difficult. The deadlines for signing an agreement between Ukraine and the EU are already outlined. Yes, and at the summit in Brussels, the President of the European Commission J.-M. Barroso said that "Ukraine cannot simultaneously be a member of the Customs Union and have an in-depth free trade zone with the European Union."
For Moscow, this meeting between V. Putin and V. Yanukovych was the last chance to stop the process of Ukraine’s withdrawal from the Russian zone of influence in the post-Soviet space. If it was not used, then this will be the main failure of Russian foreign policy over the past 10 years.

[Trance]

washi

It was smooth on paper, but forgot about the ravines.
Fig Yanukovych will join the EU.
This is of course my personal opinion.

[ultra]

Quote: Vasya

will be the main failure of Russian foreign policy in the last 10 years.

Or maybe Ukrainian! As we say, you won’t be forcibly sweet!

[opkozak]

Quote: Vasya

If it was not used, then this will be the main failure of Russian foreign policy over the past 10 years.

[super-vitek]

Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania are integrated in Evshop! And that life has become better !? You can only hear how grandmothers beg from Germany, England, France. And Ukraine will be taken on the balance, here I think their knees will bend !!! And in Ukraine, as it was ... oops, it will remain. The matter is not in the European Union, Ukraine will break away from it in an easy way, if the "Maidan" will demand. And who will win or lose, we'll see !!!

[Tatarus]

Yanukovych, and others like him, are over. Wants at the same time

[biglow]

Civil,
Putin will squeeze Yanukovych, for good or bad, but he will. If the Belarusian Old Man was able to convince on all counts, then there will be his arguments from which Yanukovych will fall ill. The whole time

[max-02215]

Well. in relation to Kyrgyzstan, this is already undercover political games. I don’t think so. what a great pleasure to put Kyrgyzstan on the neck. Well, the Kazakhs are with us. while Nazarbayev is in power, there are a lot of moods like let it be worse, but to spite Moscow

[DeerIvanovich]

probably in vain Nazarbayev at one time did not plunge his country into the arms of the West, otherwise now there would be fewer fools in the opposition.

[Marek Rozny]

Don't touch our opposition. The government somehow maintains and fosters it so that there is an appearance of "democracy" for the West
If we shut our mouths to the "internal oppositionists", then we will generally find ourselves in an unattractive state in front of "progressive humanity")))) The real opposition is crowded abroad, but they have absolutely no support inside the country.
And since all the rites are called a chinar, it seems that there are opponents of power, the rules of the game of democracy are respected)))

[Kasym]

Marek, good to see! Absolutely (centrally) as always! +!

[Marek Rozny]

I am equally glad to see your opinion and read your comments with pleasure

[washi]

What nafig opposition. Everything is divided. Not for nothing that Nazarbayev fled from Alma-Ata.

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

Not for nothing that Nazarbayev fled from Alma-Ata.

Well, tell us about the motives for moving the capital.

[washi]

Marek Rozny I wrote to him a little lower.
During the unrest in Alma-Ata, we had peace and quiet. We had 1 Kazakh and 3 Kazakh women in the class. In other classes about the same. Northern, Eastern and even half of central Kazakhstan were Russians. It was the Russians who began to grow fruits and vegetables for the nutrition of Russian miners and metallurgists. The Russians dug up irrigation ditches for water supply for agricultural production, etc.

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

It was the Russians who began to grow fruits and vegetables for the nutrition of Russian miners and metallurgists. The Russians dug up irrigation ditches for water supply for agricultural production, etc.

What did the Kazakhs do?

[washi]

Caught prisoners Karlag and sheep grazed

[Marek Rozny]

Thank you again that with your departure, one finished shovik in Kazakhstan has become less.

[Tatarus]

Thank you for not going to live in Russia. And then you would have to pay for the funeral. Well, there are normal Kazakhs,

Quote: Marek Rozny

Marek Rozny

Yes, and called aki shpien western

[Marek Rozny]

I was born in Russia in the Orenburg region. Almost half a life I lived there. I still have relatives there. Father was the deputy commander of the battalion of the Orenburg riot police, has awards for the Caucasus, among other awards. His own younger brother - an honorary resident of the Orenburg region, an employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, worked all his life as an opera. He was awarded the Order of Courage for the heroism shown in the hostage rescue operation, now on a disability pension - several gunshot wounds (including to the head), several knife wounds received in the fight against banditry in the 90s.
I have state awards for work, including and in the interests of Russia. Would you be tempted to bury me? In my family, no one ever turned on the back. I’ll bury anyone you want. I’ll also come to correct the fence.

[Marek Rozny]

Ahead of all is my father. This photo was taken during the first arrival of his battalion in the Caucasus.

[kirill110]

Where were you born there? If it `s not a secret? I also lived in the Orenburg region. True, he left in '98.

[Marek Rozny]

He was born in Akbulak, where his father was still older. Then they lived in Orenburg, then in Novotroitsk, then again transferred to Orenburg) In Novotroitsk, he studied at school No. 1 named after Matrosov, lived directly at Metallurgov square, Sovetskaya street, 45 (corner of Klubnaya street) - and studied in Orenburg 74- oh school, lived on Tereshkova street :)

[nnnnnn]

Ehh Vasya offended you seriously, but you lived and studied in the Baltic States probably now spoke some Estonian or Lithuanian language and would have lived there having studied and having lived having studied in Kazakhstan, you cannot even remember what you were taught about, not to mention the writers and what you respect? the tales that you tell this to your curator from the FSB or MOSSAD, and Russian and irrigation ditches???? laughed at aryk called Russian ditch

[washi]

In these CANAS, we rinsed with a class at the state farm Karkaraly after planting cabbage, or picking cucumbers. The abbreviation LTO tells you something.
8 rubles with a trifle

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Vasya

Not for nothing that Nazarbayev fled from Alma-Ata.

I thought you were adequate. but it turns out you’re just dropping bullshit. From whom did Nazarbayev run away ???

[washi]

First move away from southern genera
Secondly, away from the militants who walked on foot in Central Asia
Thirdly stake out the territory, and then maloli. Suddenly, Yeltsin will sober up and take away what Khrushchev did not legitimately give

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

First move away from southern genera

He is from Shaprashta.

Quote: Vasya

Secondly, away from the militants who walked on foot in Central Asia

Well this is reasonable.

Quote: Vasya

Thirdly stake out the territory, and then maloli. Suddenly, Yeltsin will sober up and take away what Khrushchev did not legitimately give

Khrushchev did not give us anything, all the more he wanted to give part of the territories in Southern Kazakhstan.

[Marek Rozny]

uahahaaa ... Nazarbayev is a southerner from the Senior Zhuz)))))))))))) Go sober. With a fig whether he is afraid of southerners ???
Secondly, the decision to transfer the capital was made by the Supreme Council of the Republic of Kazakhstan on July 6, 1994. So what kind of fighters are you talking about, Vaska?
Thirdly, Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine, but he did not give anything to Kazakhstan. There are no "primordially Russian lands" in Kazakhstan. Take the materials on the census of the population in tsarist Russia in the north Kazakhstan regions and see how many Russians were there at the end of the 19th century. Yes, and they were sent by Cossacks and soldiers, and almost until the end of the 19th century, there was no peaceful ordinary population in the Kazakh steppe.

[washi]

And how many Cossacks?

[Marek Rozny]

read the source census data and wash yourself with the fact that the vast majority of the population in the north-Kazakhstan regions were Kazakhs.

[Ducksar]

Ust-Kamenogorsk (Russian fortress) left Kazakhstan, in the year 39 .. before that it was in the Tomsk province. And why speak in vain Ust-Kamenogorsk is one of the most productive in Kazakhstan now. And according to the population there, mainly Russians lived there .. for example, in the 90s in my village (80 km from Uskaman) out of 6000 inhabitants, there were only a few Kazakhs.

[Marek Rozny]

The pre-revolutionary encyclopedia of Brockhaus and Efron:
"Ust-Kamenogorsk district of the Semipalatinsk region. The population consists mainly of Kyrgyz nomads and Russians - Cossacks and peasants; the latter are very few. According to the census of 1897, there was a settled population of 21291 d. (10943 mzhzh., 10348 women), nomadic 76393 (42175 mchzh., 34218 women), and only 97684 ".

I would like to note that, firstly, the sedentary population is not only Russians, but also other ethnic groups, including sedentary Kazakhs. And the nomadic population is 100% Kazakhs. Secondly, 1897 was when Russian Stolypin settlers had already appeared in Kazakhstan and they were already taken into account here. So there was no smell of "native Russians" in the Ust-Kamenogorsk district then, sorry.

[Ducksar]

so I about the county and did not say a word, I told you about the city. And for that matter: Ust-Kamenogorsk census of 1897.
Total population - 8721 people.
Including:
Kazakhs - 677 people.
Peasants -1933 people.
Cossacks - 730 people.
Petty bourgeois - 4753 people.
Merchants - 95 people.
Nobles - 336 people.
The clergy - 59 people.
Foreign nationals - 3 people.
Others -135 people.

"In terms of the scale of the time, the city is not large, but not small either. Among the six cities of the Semipalatinsk region, it ranked second after the regional center ...

The main composition of the population is bourgeois (54,7) and peasants (22%). The share of the Cossacks in the total population was 8,3%. Ethnic composition: Russians - 84%, Kazakhs - 9%, Tatars - 5%, others - 2% "

And even now the national composition (as of January 1, 2010):
Russians - 201 (842%)
Kazakhs - 82 593 people. (27,5%)
Germans - 3 people (717%)
Ukrainians - 3 388 people. (1,12%)
Tatars - 3 people. (276%)
Belarusians - 899 people (0,3%)
Azerbaijanis - 687 people (0,22%)
Koreans - 679 people (0,22%)
Chechens - 506 people. (0,17%)
Uighurs - 178 people (0,05%)
Uzbeks - 266 people (0,08%)
others - 2 people. (311%)
In total - 300 people. (342%)

And as for the county, the Russian territories are those on the right bank of the Irtysh along with the city, villages, mines later with factories and factories, and on the left, essentially nothing (in industrial terms). Just there were nomads.

And in general, the lands of Shemonaikhi - Ust-Kamenogorsk - Ridder (by the way, also with great industrial potential) can be attributed to the Russian territory. Suppose that a piece of territory is not large in size, but oh, what a tidbit.

[Marek Rozny]

The city of Ust-Kamenogorsk was part of the Ust-Kamenogorsk district. If you separate the city (or rather, then the military base) from the rest of the county, then you can turn a lot inside out. The Russians came to the Kazakh lands and built military bases (which have now turned into ordinary cities). It is true that on the territory of military bases the main inhabitants were the Russian military - Cossacks and soldiers (before the resettlement of Russian landless peasants-Stolypin). Don't confuse sour with salty. If the main "inhabitants" of the Manas airbase are Americans, this does not mean that this is "primordially American land."
So take it easy with your territorial claims. Much more Kazakh lands became part of the RSFSR (partly Astrakhan Oblast, Orenburg, Omsk, etc.). Kazakhs are an indigenous population there, and all these areas are crammed with ancient Turkic mounds and Muslim cemeteries. Russian cemeteries appeared there in large numbers only in the 18-20 centuries.
So there is no need to provoke this question, otherwise the Kazakhs will also remember about the "lost territories".

It is well known about mass migration to Kazakhstan during the Soviet era. But this circumstance does not in any way make North and East Kazakhstan "Russian lands". By this analogy, then Azerbaijan has the right to lay claim to Moscow. A lot of Azeris now live there. In addition, there are settlements where the bulk of the inhabitants are Germans, Chechens, Bulgarians, Kurds and others. They also ended up in KZ during the Soviet era. Do we recognize these settlements as the historical lands of Germany, Chechnya, Bulgaria and Kurdistan, respectively?

[Marek Rozny]

and in general you have strange logic. the fact that 8 thousand people lived in the fortress itself (and not all of them were Russians) is an important factor. and the fact that almost 100 thousand people lived in the county itself (of which at least 75 thousand were ethnic Kazakhs) was supposedly a trifle, and a misunderstanding ...

[Ducksar]

I didn’t just mention the two banks of the river.

[Marek Rozny]

I have no idea which place of the river you are talking about. the territory of the U-K county included both coasts. But essno not the whole river fit in the said county. Or are you talking about another county now? Name him.

[Ducksar]

What are you, what claims, use your health. Well, yes, military bases, thousands of Russian invaders came and seized the ancestral lands of the Kazakhs. They built cities and settlements here, developed all kinds of deposits, arable land, transport networks, etc. In the end, everything was left to the "indigenous population", here is the evil. How many did not read, you Kazakhs were not against land development.

Long before the Stolypintsy, the Russian Old Believers from Poland, up to 20000 peasants, were not even badly accustomed. Many of them settled on the right bank.

And Orthodox cemeteries, many times more than Muslim ones that have appeared here over the past 20 years. And to compare Russian people of those times with Azerbaijanis in Moscow now - this is to confuse sour with salty

[Marek Rozny]

1) More and more you have no complaints about "territories that were unjustly given to the Kazakhs"? thank God.
2) everything that was mined in the KZ - remained in the republic or went to the union budget? KazSSR - was a donor republic, not a subsidized one.
3) the cities were built primarily for migrants from the RSFSR and the Ukrainian SSR, and not for the Kazakhs, and therefore Slavs lived there mainly. so there is no need to thank the Kazakhs here either. Moscow did not build anything from Kazakhs to the Kazakhs, but only where it was necessary to place migrants sent to extract the resources of the Kazakh SSR. Once again, I remind you that 90% of the economy of the republic was raw.
4) virgin soil - a mistake of the Soviet authorities, which did not take into account the steppe wind erosion of soils, as a result of which millions of hectares still lie ruined. the fact that Khrushchev plowed - half became lifeless land. it was much more efficient to leave these lands for traditional livestock breeding. or wait until a protective belt of trees is planted around the steppe. Then the efficiency from Tselina was much greater. They talked about this from Alma-Ata to the Center, but Moscow decided that she was the smartest and did not need advice. As a result, a lot of land was ruined (the steppe wind just carried out and swept the plowed fertile layer) and already in the 70s the outflow of Slavic virgin lands from Kazakhstan began, which were no longer needed there because of the reduction of arable land.
5) How many Slavs (including Old Believers) were in Ust-Kamenogorsk district - the figures are given. 20 thousand Old Believers in this county never existed.
6) That's exactly what Russian cemeteries just now appeared. Very strange for "primordially Russian lands". And the cemeteries of our ancestors have been located there for the last two millennia - both in the form of barrows and in the form of Muslim mazars. It is only in the city itself after the Russians were resettled there during the Soviet era that there are large Orthodox cemeteries. Do not compose, but look at the dynamics of the increase in Russians in this region, and how many indigenous Kazakhs were there.
7) aren't Azerbaijanis, Tajiks, Moldovans, Uzbeks building Moscow? are not the workers of these ethnic groups? why are they better / worse than the Russian workers who built in Kazakhstan? why if the Russian workers built a city in Kazakhstan - it is supposedly Russian land, and if the Tajiks are now rebuilding the whole of Russia - then they have no right to claim "historical Tajik lands in Russia"? Where is the logic?

[Earthman]

[quote = Marek Rozny] That's right, Russian cemeteries have just appeared. It is very strange for "primordially Russian lands". And the cemeteries of our ancestors have been located there for the last two millennia - both in the form of barrows and in the form of Muslim mazars. It is only in the city itself after the Russians were resettled there during the Soviet era that there are large Orthodox cemeteries. Do not compose, but look at the dynamics of the increase in Russians in this region, and how many indigenous Kazakhs were there.

If Kazakhstan is a native Russian land, then why do all Slavs from Kazakhstan have a historical homeland? ask everyone, he will say that Grandfather is from Lugansk, Kiev, Kazan, Ufa, Novgorod.
Then Tajiks / Uzbeks have every right to appropriate, if not ALL of Moscow, then the districts of Moscow, Azerbaijanis \ Turks \ Armenians can say that half of Moscow is theirs, because it is not theirs that the large content of Asians in MOSCOW complain about on the forum ??? Marek handsome)))

[tommy1984]

what nafig is it adequate? a troll that incites ethnic tensions between Russians and Kazakhs here.

[washi]

But he artificially began to instill Islam to the atheist people, more precisely to the pagan. By the way, Russians are also pagans. Maslenitsa, Kupala Day, Apple Spas, Veil, etc. are still celebrated. The Orthodox Church simply adapted, and the Catholic Church burned all reminders of the history of peoples.
Immediately for the Kazakhs - Khan Uzbek.

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

Immediately for the Kazakhs - Khan Uzbek.

What does the Khan-Uzbek have to do with it?

[Marek Rozny]

Vasya, about the topic of religion in you, in my opinion a hash in your head.
Kazakhs - whatever one may say, and no matter how much you talk about the Tengrian basis of worldview, are nevertheless formally muslim. And even in Soviet times, Kazakhs adhered to many Islamic requirements - circumcision, denial of pork, holidays, etc.
After in 1991, our countries began to live without a communist ideology, and in Russia and Kazakhstan, people showed an interest in religion. Russians began to go to temples, Kazakhs - to mosques. It is absolutely natural and normal.
ZY Kazakh Islam (and indeed Turkic-steppe Islam) really differs from the Arab or Persian versions. Even in comparison with Tajiks and Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Tatars, Bashkirs are distinguished by their calm attitude to religion and the mass of Tengrian "atavisms".
Z.Z.Y. Why did you remember the Khan of Uzbek?

[marshes]

Quote: Marek Rozny

and indeed Turkic-steppe Islam)

Islam is our traditional Hanafi madhhab. Of the four madhhabs, Hanafi is considered the most liberal.

[washi]

Sorry, but the Persians were not Muslims. Circumcision, denial of pork, etc., is fully consistent with Judaism. In accordance with your textbooks, Khan Uzbek adopted Islam. From him went the Muslims - Uzbeks. And freedom-loving people refused to obey him and a separate people formed - the Kazakhs

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

but the Persians were not Muslims.

And who are the Iranians?

Quote: Vasya

Circumcision, denial of pork, etc. is fully consistent with Judaism

Some Europeans also have their foreskin circumcised for medical reasons, masturbation, personal hygiene are being eradicated, and after the latest studies in women whose partner has a low risk of developing cervical cancer, pork is high in urea in meat and spoils very quickly in the heat .

Quote: Vasya

Khan Uzbek converted to Islam with your textbooks. From him went the Muslims - Uzbeks. And freedom-loving people refused to obey him and a separate people formed - the Kazakhs

Name this tutorial.
you do not even write correctly-KAZAKH.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Vasya

Sorry, but the Persians were not Muslims. Circumcision, denial of pork, etc., is fully consistent with Judaism. In accordance with your textbooks, Khan Uzbek adopted Islam. From him went the Muslims - Uzbeks. And freedom-loving people refused to obey him and a separate people formed - the Kazakhs

lope delirium in one post ...
1) Persians - Shia Muslims. They adopted Islam in the Middle Ages before the Turks.
2) And where is Judaism? Kazakhs in the Jews recorded?
3) Uzbek khan is not mentioned at all in Kazakh textbooks. Yes, he introduced Islam as a state religion in the Golden Horde, but Islam appeared in the Kazakh steppe already in the 8th century, and strengthened by the 10th century.
4) The Uzbek Khan has nothing to do with the current Uzbeks. The Uzbeks were formed from nomadic Türks, Sarts (Ottoman Tajiks and sedentary Otajici Turks) and Tajiks.
5) Uzbek-khan also has nothing to do with the formation of the Kazakh ethnic group. Kazakh sultans Janibek and Kerey in the middle of the 15th century separated from the Khanate of Abulkhair. You have piled the name of the Uzbek Khan, the Uzbek Khanate of Abulkhair and modern Uzbeks in one heap.

[nnnnnn]

Quote: Vasya

Sorry, but the Persians were not Muslims. Circumcision, denial of pork, etc., is fully consistent with Judaism. In accordance with your textbooks, Khan Uzbek adopted Islam. From him went the Muslims - Uzbeks. And freedom-loving people refused to obey him and a separate people formed - the Kazakhs

go sober, and after that go in for self-education.

[Siberian]

Even in comparison with Tajiks and Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Tatars, Bashkirs are distinguished by their calm attitude to religion and the mass of Tengrian "atavisms".
why do you single out Uzbeks. There are also many Tengrinian atavisms in Uzbek Islam ... for example, along with the words Allah, Khudai denoting "God", the word "Tangri" is widely used, the meaning of which, I think, is clear to you ... And Islam itself practiced among Uzbeks is very specific and extremely peaceful ... except for the recently emerging Salafis ...

[Marek Rozny]

Uzbeks have very little Tengrian "heritage", unlike Kazakhs or Kyrgyz. In addition, Uzbeks are much more jealous of the observance of Islamic tenets than the steppe people. That's what I meant.

[Siberian]

Quote: Marek Rozny

Uzbeks have very little Tengrian "heritage", unlike Kazakhs or Kyrgyz. In addition, Uzbeks are much more jealous of the observance of Islamic tenets than the steppe people. That's what I meant.

less does not mean no at all. Hanafi Islam itself is very "easy", the Uzbeks themselves are quite light on Islam, there are, of course, Salafi youngsters ... but they are an exception that confirms the general rule - Uzbeks do not cycle on religion ... It is rather a part of culture, a way of life, value system ... at least not comparable to more southern Muslims (Tajiks, Afghans, Pakistanis)

[consul]

washi,
Of all these holidays, only the day of bathing (herbalist) is pagan, and then on the night of July 6 to July 7, and on July 7, the Church celebrates the day of John the Baptist and the pagans put the name Ivan (Hebrew name) to the bathhouse. The Maslenitsa is the week before Lent, into which it is no longer possible to eat meat food and milk is allowed, hence the name-buttercup (butter), Apple Spas is the common name of the Feast of the Transfiguration of the Lord, in which the first ripened fruits are blessed, by the way not only apples, the Veil is a feast of the Protection (patronage, protection) The Blessed Virgin Mary on October 14. The church calendar for Russia came from Byzantium, so no one set the date for pagan holidays.

[101]

Well, you have flown up. Russians are all celebrating the People’s Trait; however, come and celebrate your birthday and what else you wish

[SIBIR38RUS]

Everything is somehow muddy! ....... On TV they say that we are good friends with the Kazakhs, here on the Internet they write nonsense about some Turks with the idea of ​​unification and supposedly forcibly Kazakhs are joining Russia ... I do not believe it! Everything is nonsense! But about Kyrgyzstan and possibly Tajikistan, it’s true that it will be difficult for them to pull them out of a deep ass at the expense of Russian means ...

[Marek Rozny]

Any meeting of the heads of the Turkic-speaking states is marked by "Turkic" rhetoric. Like, we have common roots, one language, one religion. It's more of a politeness.
However, Russia with Serbia or Bulgaria also constantly at the highest meetings speaks of Slavic unity, common culture, religion and language.
Pay no attention to the Turkic speech. We don't pay attention to "Slavic" hugs)
In addition, Turkey should really be interesting to us (Kazakhstan and Russia) in terms of its hypothetical entry into the Eurasian Union.

[washi]

Probably, given the fact that Armenia accepted Turkey’s apologies for the genocide. But there is a Kurdish problem. I am for the formation of a minimum of Kurdish autonomy in the territories of Turkey, Afghanistan and Iraq

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

Afghanistan

And you asked the Kurds if they want to live in Afghanistan?
I'm under the table!!!

[washi]

Sorry, but where did the Kurdish tribes from Afghanistan go?

[marshes]

Quote: Vasya

Sorry, but where did the Kurdish tribes from Afghanistan go?

Kurds (Kurd. Kurd / کورد / Körd, Kurd. Kurmancî / کورمانجی / Körmanschi) - the Iranian people, representing a combination of numerous tribal groups, settled mainly in the regions of middle and northern Zagros and in the upper Tigris and Euphrates - in the region called Kurdistan . Kurdistan is currently divided between Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria.

[Ascetic]

Quote: Vasya

Sorry, but where did the Kurdish tribes from Afghanistan go?

Territories inhabited by Kurds. the so-called Kurdistan, That's where they went from Afghanistan ..cunning ..

[Ascetic]

If they were united, the huge independent Kurdistan would have long been not only on the map, but also dominated the region. However, what is not, that is not. This is for strangers they are "Kurds", period, but if you look from the inside, then each of the four taifes (subethnos with different customs and even languages) have very different outlooks on life and an extremely complex attitude towards "cousins". And besides, the graters between the Kabila (tribes): mlani (tribes of pastoralists), zilani (tribes of farmers) and misken (urban tribes) are at enmity with each other even within the same ashiret (confederation of tribes), of which there are more than fifty and which , in turn, are constantly in conflict both for the expansion of their zones of influence and "according to the precepts of their ancestors. And no tie diplomas fundamentally change the situation. And this despite the fact that the Kurds never had a single religion. Here is a diagram of the settlement of the Kurdish tribes

[Ascetic]

Quote: Vasya

Sorry, but where did the Kurdish tribes from Afghanistan go?

Following the Ukrainians, the Aryans fled from the Pashtuns (who took the last herd of postal camels from them) to the northeast, where in turn they ousted the great Armenians from the valley of the Tigris and Efrat rivers, and then they were conquered by the Arabs with the Persians

[Kasym]

Greetings, Alexander (Sibir38Rus)! Marek is absolutely right - no need to focus on this! Just imagine for a moment the Union of Slavic and Turkic peoples, but the Anglo-Saxons will not stand nearby! They will do everything to prevent this from happening! Hilory Clinton's statements about the USSR-2 alone are worth something. And past conflicts - we say: "There is nothing further than yesterday and there is nothing closer than tomorrow." Even the conflicts on the territory of the former USSR of the 90s should not hinder our integration.
Sincerely .

[Kolyan 2]

In Tajikistan in 96g. served 8 months ( Tajikistan, it’s true, it will be hard for them to pull them out of a deep ass at the expense of Russian funds ...) there is not a deep ass, it was even deeper there, although it seems like there’s no further. I don’t think it’s better now.

[Floock]

Sovereignty .. For Kazakhstan ... It's funny!
16 million people live on a vast and rich territory - and as soon as we receive full and final sovereignty from Russia, the Chinese (1 billion 300 million), or even Uzbeks (30 million) will make us such an "offer" we can refuse.
Russian Kazakhs are friends, but the Chinese or Uzbeks are not friends, I think.

[Civil]

Quote: Floock

Russian Kazakhs friends

as well as allies!

[washi]

Some Kazakhs are offended by the fact that they are not allowed to buy enterprises in Russia. And it is right. But not everyone allows ours in Kazakhstan. We will be mutually polite and remove corruption, clanism, fraternity in both countries

[Marek Rozny]

Russian business is slowly moving to Kazakhstan. We have less taxes and bureaucracy.

[CAPILATUS]

You're kidding, right?
I was a co-owner of a computer company in Kazakhstan (while still a Kazakhstani) for several years and I sat down to somehow calculate how much I deduct from the profits to my beloved state. Now you will fall - it turned out to be 52% of the profit (!), This includes all taxes and mandatory contributions. I'd rather not say anything about the need to "share" with various government agencies so that they can somehow work. This is the rationale for creating concealment of income in different ways, and you - Russian business is leaking to Kazakhstan, because there are better conditions for development (!)
By the way, have you asked yourself why there was almost no such thing as "racketeering" in Kazakhstan against the background of the lawlessness that took place in Russia in the "dashing 90s?" - the answer is simple and obvious, the official racketeering was (and I am sure that they are doing it now) government agencies, and so cleverly that the usual racketeering stratum simply did not have a place there.

[Focuser]

Quote: CAPILATUS

By the way, have you asked yourself why there was almost no such thing as "racketeering" in Kazakhstan against the background of the lawlessness that took place in Russia in the "dashing 90s?"

Yes, we had a racket in the 90s. Maybe not on such a scale as in Russia, but it was. Look, even the x / film was shot "Racketeer", joke on the Internet. It is unlikely that they began to remove it if such a phenomenon did not exist in the KZ, or it was insignificant.
And business (at least small and medium) in KZ is much easier to conduct than in Russia - this is also true.
PS No, I do not judge only on x / d films, if Th. And then I know you .. Judging by several. real life examples.

[marshes]

Red Diamond, Pussycat, Bach Festival, Four Brothers, Black Diamond, Haika Hippo, Krykbaevsky, etc.

[Marek Rozny]

And in what years did you do business in KZ? Are you aware that the legislative framework is constantly being improved and it is clearly not the same as it was before? By the way, put the percentages on the shelves.
Regarding the racketeering - you somehow strangely "forgot" the red diamonds and other rex 90s. There was racketeering, and some other. Another thing is that the Kazakh police literally physically killed all the thugs.
By the way, taxes in Europe are much more than in Kazakhstan.
As for "sharing", this is more about big business. SMEs have long been possible to conduct without such a business (if the issue does not concern tenders).

[kirill110]

this is so, but our business cannot compete with such a business. There is a likelihood that large Russian business will, according to "notions", raise problems in their own favor, and not in favor of a state "foreign" to it.

[andsavichev2012]

Exactly, especially since the Kazakhs entered the empire, in general, voluntarily

[Phantom Revolution]

Not voluntarily, but life made me, like the Georgians and others, they asked for a bow of protection.

[Marek Rozny]

Absolutely voluntary. And do not hint at the Dzungarian or Chinese factor. Kazakhs dealt with them without Russia.

[Phantom Revolution]

Of course, voluntarily, that even after the collapse of the USSR, the Russians were persecuted. And thanks to the Russians, Kazakhstan did not chop off disputed territories by force in Kazakhstan.

[Marek Rozny]

crap.
1) No one in the KZ oppressed Russians either in 1991 or today.
2) Kazakhs themselves figured out the Dzhungars and Manchus of the Qing Empire (to be precise). You still say that Russia saved the Kazakhs from India or Portugal.

[washi]

Yeah of course. But Stalin an idiot gave the Uyghurs to the Chinas. And you, for example, have hidden the border with China.

[Marek Rozny]

What was this exhaust for?

[Lindon]

If Stalin - then who are you yourself?

[CAPILATUS]

1)
working in the state structure on the debt of work conducted audits. And with an impartial attitude towards everyone, without exception, Luli received from the authorities (ethnic Kazakhs) only when he impartially evaluated the work of the representatives of the "titular nation", by the way, these same ones represented the "titular" nation and came home to me with threats and more than once. And on the service bus, on the way home from work, I had a fight with one of them when he was completely weak - and that was. In the personnel department, there was an unwritten instruction from the authorities to give priority to the Kazakhs when hiring, and not to the level of specialist training, everyone knew about this. The head of the personnel department, the Kazakh woman herself, by the way, complained that she had to take boobies to the detriment of the interests of the enterprise. I'm not saying that this was everywhere, but it was far from an isolated case in the local society. So I recommend that you take off your rose-colored glasses.

2)
I wasn’t there, I don’t know, like all those present, so no one has a moral right to assert authentically on this issue.
But once I saw a documentary film made by a Kazakhstani director, the film mentioned the historical fact when 500 Cossacks from the "Verny" fort (for the inexperienced - the current city of Almaty) opposed 10 thousand troops of the Dzungars and defeated them. About such heroism of the people's guards of local tribes, who fought against the invasions of southern neighbors, did not have to hear

[marshes]

Quote: CAPILATUS

500 Cossacks from the "Verny" fort (for the inexperienced - the present city of Almaty) opposed 10 thousand troops of the Dzungars and defeated them. About such heroes from the people's guards of the mast tribes, who fought against the invasions of southern neighbors, as it was not necessary

You have "good" knowledge of our history.
Well, who broke the jungars, at least read the wiki. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%81%D0
%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0

[CAPILATUS]

claims to the director with a Kazakh surname

[Earthman]

Quote: CAPILATUS

claims to the director with a Kazakh surname

Well, why do you need so little things?
Nobody laughs at the film, Alexander Nevsky, and how he lured a knight onto the ice and won after a cod, it’s like a weak and strong opponent plays chess, a weak opponent is pumped up, takes a chessboard and hits it on the head of a strong chess player and says: IT IS IMPORTANT HOW TO WIN, Well this is a shame.

Don’t talk about directors, we know Russian MYSELF DIRECTORS
http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/167/htks514.jpeg

[Marek Rozny]

A Kazakh director in life would not have mixed Kazakhs with Cossacks. And secondly, Kazakhs, unlike local Russians, know the history of Kazakhstan, including the battle of Khan Dzhangir with their sarbaz against the army of the Dzungars. Either you lied from the bulldo about seeing such a film, or you listened to the wrong place. And turn on the logic when Verny and the Cossacks there appeared and when the jungars disappeared from the historical scene.

[Marek Rozny]

Why should I take a person who does not know the state language for civil service? how will it work? it’s not enough to hire translators for all such employees of the state budget. a civil servant who speaks only the Russian language and does not speak the state language is like a cripple. what for such an employee?

Fort Verny did not appear from scratch, but on the site of the existing settlement of Almaty. Read TSB. Moreover, this settlement in the Middle Ages was a city that even printed its gold coins.

500 Kazakhs in the Dzungar aisle defeated a large Dzungar army, taking advantage of a favorable defensive position at a dominant height. You have mixed Kazakhs with Cossacks. And Fort Verny (and accordingly the Cossacks there) appeared in general when the Dzhungars had already been completely killed. They sat in a puddle.

[CAPILATUS]

there are civil services where specialists are needed first of all, and not your nationalist moods. Then you claim that this does not exist as a phenomenon in Kazakhstan. Perhaps the Kazakh language will be needed in such services, since it should be used if there are no specialists yet, so that the paperwork in such a service can be translated into Kazakh? Although there have been attempts
Your mentality is a typical mentality of the Kazakh marginal - let's first make everything non-Kazakh - Kazakh, and then think about whether we need it! Because of specialists like you, they leave Kazakhstan, and then Kazakhstan invites the same specialists for huge money from behind a hill

You are trying to put yourself in a puddle, showing false patriotism and chauvinism, while blaming the Russians for more.

[Marek Rozny]

1) Who is the nationalist - I, who speak Russian and respectfully speaks Russian culture, or Russian, who dislikes our state language. In Russia, a person who does not know the state language, but an excellent specialist, will be able to get a civil service?
And even in spite of this, it is enough in the local public service bodies of ethnic Russians who do not know the state language. Yes, they are available both in the central offices and political posts.
2) Consider me a marginal if you feel so good. I am in my country, I have brought and bring benefits to my country, I know and respect the culture of local Slavs, Germans, Koreans, etc.
3) A normal specialist in Kazakhstan is worth its weight in gold. But talkers with high self-importance are not needed here. Where are all these "golden heads and golden hands", as the "refugees" who have left for Russia like to call themselves? Name at least one emigrant from Kazakhstan who left after 1991 and achieved something in their historical homeland or in "Canada"? Strange, but living in Russia, these mythical "specialists" have achieved NOTHING. The usual gray mass. Absolutely not a single major businessman, engineer, scientist, cultural worker or politician has been given to Russia by these "clever girls" in all 20 years. When they crossed the border, they suddenly became dull? Name at least one last name of these millions of emigrants.
4) Do not distort my words. I do not accuse the Russian people of anything. I'm talking about the "foam" of the Russian people, which interferes with the normal coexistence of both peoples. I do not blame the Russian people for the excesses of the Soviet regime, but I am categorically against the fact that some Russians ascribe to themselves the merits of the Soviet regime.

[Lindon]

Haha, the Dzungars were then exterminated by the Chinese. Cossacks repelled the attack of Kokand (this is modern Uzbekistan). The Dzungarian state was located on the territory of East Turkestan - this is the Tsynzyang-Uigur region of the PRC.

[Byordovvv1]

While the monument to Nazarbayev on Red Square in Moscow, the same as in Astana, will not be erected, it is hardly worth counting on some kind of reunion.

[Marek Rozny]

By the way, monuments and busts to Nazarbayev were placed in Kyrgyzstan (on Issyk-Kul), in Turkey (Ankara), Ukraine (Dneprodzerzhinsk), Moldova (Gagauzia), Armenia (in some small town).
Moreover, essno, Kazakhstan did not ask about this.

[Kaa]

Quote: Marek Rozny

Ukraine (Dneprodzerzhinsk)

In Dneprodzerzhinsk - near the technical school where he studied. By the way, a more monumental monument to Brezhnev, a graduate of the same institution, stands nearby. In the forge of personnel, Moscow State University was not standing nearby ... joke, graduates of Moscow State University ...

[Marek Rozny]

I will send my son to you in Ukraine to study)))

[Lindon]

And what was the monument to Nazarbayev put in Astana? there is a photo?

[Alibekulu]

Floock,
Sovereignty .. For Kazakhstan ... It's funny!
And for the Russian Federation-no ???
Floock Russian Kazakhs friends
Yes, I suppose he’s Russian himself, so you’re scribbling ...
Friendship friendship, and ...
About Uzbeks smiled Also a world gendarme ...

[imperiologist]

economic restructuring, the industrial revolution, the transformation of Russia into an economic giant, and all the former "fraternal" republics themselves will again want under the wing of the Russian Federation

[Phantom Revolution]

Feed again? And then how will it get worse, they will again run up and scream about occupation and oppression?

[homosum20]

I absolutely agree with you. Anyway, talking about the integration of peoples deeply diverse in religion, worldview, social model of society, historical and cultural roots - this is nonsense. Fully artificial model dictated by the requirements of geopolitics. Such formations are not viable.
Why do the peoples of these countries need this (I mean the Russian people). A picture that has nothing to do with the situation in the integration of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. (again, I am not saying that it is inevitable - it is only natural. In contrast to the situation with the Asian republics).

[tommy1984]

Is Russian and Ukrainian closer than Kazakh and Russian? may be. but just tell me, in Kazakhstan, nationalist flogging beat Russian veterans on Victory Day? in Kazakhstan beat Russian parliament deputies? President of Kazakhstan = is schizophrenic Russophobe? there was a debate in the Kazakh media at which nationalists would talk about throwing out Russian invaders from Sarah Shagan’s rocket range?

[Circle]

If you look at least this gear

then we can find out that the relationship between Russia and the Golden Horde was much more complicated than is commonly believed. Therefore, with good reason we can talk about the interpenetration of cultures and centuries-old ties of peoples among themselves. If someone is really interested in the issue and wants to figure it out (rather than troll), then he will not regret the time spent.

[Earthman]

Quote: Circle

then we can find out that the relationship between Russia and the Golden Horde was much more complicated than is commonly believed. Therefore, with good reason we can talk about the interpenetration of cultures and centuries-old ties of peoples among themselves. If someone is really interested in the issue and wants to figure it out (rather than troll), then he will not regret the time spent.

And why the hell did you give these different videos? Too lazy to read old books yourself and come to EUREKA yourself?

[Floock]

Quote: Alibekulu

Floock Russian Kazakhs friends
Yes, I suppose he’s Russian himself, so you’re scribbling ...
Friendship friendship, and ...
About the Uzbeks, too, the world gendarme smiled ...

Actually, I am for the friendship of peoples.
And the Kazakhs have a saying: when a black Chinese comes, a white Russian brother will appear
In Uzbekistan, by the way, there is no such theft and permissiveness, as in Kazakhstan. They are hardworking ants.
There is such a story - one Kazakh first worked himself, then "got up", hired an Uzbek. Then another, then two more.
And when the Uzbeks became five to one, they drove off the Kazakh and began to work for themselves. :)

[zanyks]

You do not confuse the Uzbeks with the Kyrgyz? Uzbeks are the most lazy and cunning people in Central Asia.

[washi]

Uzbeks are smart people and hardworking

[Marek Rozny]

Vasya, I completely agree with your statement that the Uzbeks are smart and hardworking. But they are usually trickier and steppe, although because of their sophisticated tricks themselves always find themselves in a puddle.
In addition, Uzbeks are bad soldiers - this was the case during the time of the Khanates, it was so in Soviet times, and now. But they are great workers. In this regard, they are better than Kazakhs or Kyrgyz.

[washi]

Uzbek in the kitchen is just lovely

[Ascetic]

Quote: Marek Rozny

But they are usually trickier and steppe, although because of their sophisticated tricks themselves always find themselves in a puddle.

They’re not tricky .. they’re insidious, as they say, they keep their bones in their bosom .. and they almost always perceive a normal attitude as weakness. But at the same time they are patient, sometimes overly active, hardworking. Familyhood and fraternity are very developed. Kazakhs are more direct people, more open and unforgettable, they do not melt the grudge in themselves but they splash out right away. They are very quick-tempered. But they quickly depart. I am especially impressed with the attitude towards the elders even now in a new time when people everywhere strive to get rid of national traditions and turn everyone into universal people. Even in the Caucasus almost everywhere there is only money and show-off and nothing more. But this is purely my opinion based on the experience of personal communication.

[The gentleman]

what are you smart. dear, who gave you such a right to speak about a nation? who are you to at least somehow evaluate this or that nation ???

[Marek Rozny]

Gentleman, sorry, of course, for my not quite correct statement, but on the whole I treat the Uzbeks normally and respect them. Although I consider the Uzbeks cunning and weak soldiers. You have other advantages - for example, the mentioned diligence.
And about the tricks of the Uzbeks against the Kazakhs - a parable) It’s even in pre-revolutionary times that Sart always tries to deceive the steppe, all sources in Turkestan that describe the relations of local peoples mentioned)

[Siberian]

Quote: Marek Rozny

gentleman, sorry, of course, for my not quite correct statement, but on the whole I treat the Uzbeks normally and respect them. Although I consider the Uzbeks cunning and weak soldiers. You have other advantages - for example, the mentioned diligence.
And about the tricks of the Uzbeks against the Kazakhs - a parable) It’s even in pre-revolutionary times that Sart always tries to deceive the steppe, all sources in Turkestan that describe the relations of local peoples mentioned)

on the whole I agree, but nevertheless it is not necessary to level everyone with the same size ... Remember the IMU model before 2001, then it was a purely Uzbek (in ethnic terms) association. In Afghanistan, in Batkent, in Pakistan, they showed themselves "quite well" ... Especially in Batkent, when a group of 200 militants directed a "nix" there, they even captured a couple of qirg'iz generals there. And then they quietly left when they wanted to.

[Marek Rozny]

Afghan Uzbeks descended from nomadic Uzbeks. And the majority of Uzbeks in Uzbekistan are sarts and official Tajiks. The difference between the Afghan Uzbek and the Uzbek Uzbek is quite large. Although formally they are considered one ethnic group.
Afghan Uzbeks have been living there since the time of Babur.
In addition, the IMU-shniki "performed well" in battles with Uzbeks. The Kyrgyz defeated them in Batken. The Idushniki captured the Kirghiz because the Kirghiz simply did not expect any real military action. At first, the officers wanted to talk to the idiots. After the blow by the Uzbeks and Kirghiz, the IMU-Shniki retreated from there.

[Siberian]

Afghan Uzbeks are not related to the IMU, they are more likely opponents. IMU is an Uzbek (or rather Ferghana) organization. I'm afraid you were misinformed about the battles in Batkent. The Kirghiz did not defeat the IMUshnikov, those having fulfilled the tasks in an organized manner retreated. And what's the point of negotiating with terrorists? The reason for the desire for negotiations is the uncertainty of command, or the incapacity of the army.

[Marek Rozny]

I know perfectly well who the IMU are.

In Batken, the Kyrgyz did not yet understand what kind of people were there, and therefore they went to meet with the militants to find out who it was and what they wanted.

The IMU-shnikov was bombed first by Uzbek troops, and then by the Kyrgyz. Then the remnants of the gangs left the territory of Kyrgyzstan.

[tm70-71]

The crap was full there, you Marek was not in the subject, the general himself surrendered (he had to shoot himself later, bitch) he carried the grandmother by the Japs, where then the greens lemon turned out to be horseradish, he then left, when ours began a continuous mobilization, those. tighten everyone and everything, the Uzbeks pulled themselves up, the village we had more airplanes, the leadership that ours, that the Uzbeks in the anus, only the greens in the eyes

[Marek Rozny]

http://khaidarkan.narod.ru/arhivy_foto/Kadam_Forum/forum_index.htm

[tm70-71]

I am writing what I saw, but the paper will endure everything, not knowing the topic, no need to write about what you don’t know at all!

[washi]

Sorry, but who are you talking to?
All nations have long weighed and appreciated. The school textbook was. There, according to nationality, recommendations from whom - where it is desirable. And if we had such a textbook, then even more so in the CIA. So they use our features

[Krasnoyarsk]

Into the forest of Kyrgyzstan! With their instability and explosiveness. Ukraine, that's what we need, what Donbass is worth.

[Kasym]

Hello, Krasnoyarets (Sashka)!
It seems to me that all our neighbors need to prove by our example what integration means - to increase welfare, to have a huge trade turnover, in one word to get rich, to become a cut above. Then both Ukraine and others will themselves begin to gravitate towards us. And there is no need to "pull by the ears", no need to rush. Otherwise, it can be counterproductive and harm the common cause.
Sincerely .

[SIBIR38RUS]

You are absolutely right colleague! As the saying goes ... You won’t be forcibly sweet! :) Our modern USSR should be formed voluntarily, according to the will of the people, and not according to the wishes of the governments of our states .... Something was not divided at the top, and the people are suffering. Frankly speaking - EVERYTHING already wants back ... all grief was grabbed without union! More than 20 years just spit out! NATO hands only untied so given the will .....

[Beck]

Quote: SIBIR38RUS

Our modern USSR should be formed voluntarily, by the will of the people, and not by the wishes of the governments of our states ....

There will never be a full-fledged EurAsEC, while such as Vasya will verbalize their awkward comments. Here's how to build a Union with such? Just make a hut.

[Islam]

so offer her gas at a discount why nobody uses this lever of pressure? Hunger - makes the mind clearer

[washi]

Offer YOUR GAS at a discount

[Krasnoyarsk]

We will give them mustard for free.

[baltika-18]

I am somewhat alarmed by Nazarbayev’s statement about purely economic, but not political integration at all. The economy is inseparable from politics. How he imagines it interestingly.

[Earthman]

Quote: baltika-18

I am somewhat alarmed by Nazarbayev’s statement about purely economic, but not political integration at all. The economy is inseparable from politics. How he imagines it interestingly.

an economic union is a kind of alliance for "products"

The political union is the CSTO.

[Kasym]

Because, Nikolay (Baltika-18), both in Russia and Kazakhstan (and all kinds of Hilori Klitori) there are rich people (who have weight in society) for whom our integration is "not a living thing." Here at the top they are careful with their statements. So, all this is a play on words and POLITICS.

[Marek Rozny]

There is no need to tease the West with information about a "political alliance". It's not time yet. Nazarbayev is doing the right thing. In fact, this is a political union, but for now it will be presented as a purely economic one. Otherwise, the West will start putting sticks in our wheels with might and main.

[baltika-18]

Quote: Kasym

Kasym

Quote: Marek Rozny

Marek Rozny

May be.......
Let's see ....... Putin, as well as Nazarbayev, is left a little bit. The following will be smarter .......
And there is the Red Banner of the united Fatherland.

[washi]

Rather, he reassures his. After all, you have a lot of those who have landmarks in Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Britain and the USA

[Marek Rozny]

sometimes it's better to chew than talk. What other orientation of Kazakhs to Qatar, Arabia and the Anglo-American world are you talking about? Has the oak collapsed? And we cannot but be friends with Turkey - they are Turks and they rendered the greatest help to Kazakhstan in the difficult 90s.

[Siberian]

Quote: Marek Rozny

And we cannot but be friends with Turkey - they are Turks and they rendered the greatest help to Kazakhstan in the difficult 90s.

do not crucify. They still don’t understand ... Panslavism is normal, cooperation between Turkic states is evil ... This is the mentality of the inhabitants of Russia.

[washi]

I personally do not care. The main thing is that everyone benefit.

[washi]

South Korea also bought coal by barter. Still vidyushnik and TV with his father lying around. So can you cooperate with them? To start. And I don’t remember the help of Turkey, sorry.

[Marek Rozny]

We have normal economic cooperation with South Korea. To unite with them is a crazy idea. They are trite far away and they are not our allies or historical friends. You just need to blurt out a thread.
If you don’t know about Turkey’s help to Kazakhstan, then not a bay.

[Warrawar]

Not any alliances with Asia! It is necessary to shut themselves off from them by all means. Well, you can cooperate without alliances, since it is more in their interests than in ours.

[elmi]

I do not agree with you, that’s why: to defend yourself from an external enemy - for example, from the Chinese is easier not on your own territory and the border area is less and there is time to prepare a rebuff. It is easier to close borders from drug trafficking on the Tajik-Tajik border rather than catching it on the vast expanses of Russia.

[Beck]

I read it. If there is any slowdown in integration, then Russia must turn to itself first. Because cheers patriots not only shout on this site, but also publish their own newspapers, and have their own TV channels, and their own radio waves.

At the beginning of 2000, the Kremlin decided to start "collecting lands" for what the patriots are saying. Having rejected Nazarbayev's repeated proposals to build the Eurasian Economic Community, the Kremlin decided to first gather the Slavic peoples. If on an equal footing, then the flag in hand. But the Kremlin insisted on the entry of Ukpaina and Belarus on the basis of provinces. And hurray-patriots at the same time yelled, give Ukraine Crimea, Donbass, made some claims to the Belarusians, they say there is no such people all there are Russians. And they shouted to Kazakhstan to give back the northern regions. It is on such conditions and such a howl of patriots who want to gather under one roof. Old Man Lukashenko snapped and kicked. Ukraine hesitated, so the Kremlin shut off the valves on the gas pipe. Ukraine and turned away. The Kremlin realized it had gone the wrong way. I turned to the idea of ​​the Eurasian Economic Community of Nazarbayev. Lukashenko stepped back and joined. And Ukraine is now unlikely to be attracted.

Now about the article. The author wants to be objective, but again "greatness" slips, as in the comments on this page.

Firstly, there is opposition in Kazakhstan, but its influence is small. Nazarbayev did not speak about any pan-Turkism, he spoke about the cultural rapprochement of the Turkic peoples. And he did not speak about any departure from the EurAsEC. He said something like the following - "There is no alternative to integration, but the political independence of Kazakhstan is out of the discussion zone." Maybe it's too early to talk about the Eurasian Parliament, we need to see how everything will turn out. Especially considering that Russian officials take into account, first of all, not integration interests, but Russian ones. And Kazakhstan, in order not to violate the basic agreements, conceded in some way. For example, about the ban on the import of used vehicles into the vehicle. And Russian officials misinterpreted the gesture of goodwill and are more persistently promoting their interests .. That the Kremlin does not want to take into account its mistakes of early 2000 with Ukraine?

And here on the page continues URA.

Everyone needs EurAsEC. One by one, we gradually lose everything. But the EurAsEC is equal, without imperial ways of longing for the past.

[SSR]

Quote: Beck

Especially considering that Russian officials take into account primarily non-integration interests, and Russian.

Here you are clearly "pierced")))
Unfortunately, most officials pursue only their pocket interest .. they are only interested in the size of their bank account and their land holdings.
IMHA, I hope that what is happening in Russia now is the replacement of jerkers on people who are not interested in the fate of the Russian Federation itself.

[Beck]

Quote from S.S.R.

Here you are clearly "pierced"))) Unfortunately, most officials pursue only their pocket interest .. they are only interested in the size of their bank account and their land holdings.

So the pocket of officials is special, for yours and for ours. And when the pocket is full then they also think of something about the state.

[ultra]

Quote: Beck

So the pocket of officials is special, for yours and for ours. And when the pocket is full then they also think of something about the state.

Well, this is not about our officials! Our pocket is bottomless, examples of this sea!

[Rezun]

Beck, you're right!
Sometimes a winding path is shorter than a straight line.

[atash]

"The opposition rushes with the idea of ​​organizing a referendum on Kazakhstan's withdrawal from the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space. However, the date of the plebiscite has not been set yet."

What date can we talk about if only "the opposition is rushing about with the idea"?

In Kazakhstan there is no such opposition that could have an impact on government decisions. They have no influence whatsoever, neither on the government, nor on public opinion. They just chat in their media.

Stupid article, not intended to be read at all.

[elmi]

Maybe this is another disinformation to drive a wedge between Russia and Kazakhstan?

[Bekzat]

For Elmir, this may be so.

[Marek Rozny]

No, not misinformation. It's just that Russian analysts, who have clearly not been to KZ, overestimated the importance of the local opposition. Kazakhstanis do not even know the names of oppositionists, let alone their ideas. The authorities need the opposition to create an image of a normal "democratic" state. The authorities do not even hide this fact.

[washi]

Yours are even more corrupt. Pay and it will be all. Our idiots also do not think about the future.

[CAPILATUS]

No, not corrupt. I understood what you had in mind, but you inaccurately put it.
Kazakhstan has a very specific power structure based on loyalty, esesso to the president. He is a king and God, and while he is alive (God grant him health) there will be no other way.
I’ll draw a parallel. Those who traveled at least once on Bishkek-Moscow trains in the 90s know how everything works there. You, the hare, want to ride this train, pay the conductor, who in turn pays the senior conductor, and the senior conductor pays the chief of the train. People who buy a ticket at the box office there do not like. I will say even more if it were in the 90s and you bought a ticket and climbed into this train, it is not a fact that you would have left somewhere.
So in Kazakhstan there is a similar power structure. Everyone "shares" with their older brother - money, connections, loyalty. Such is the pyramid of power. If you don't want to live "by the rules" you will be squeezed out. And the higher you are in the pyramid, the higher the stakes. Hence the high-profile murders and so on. Otherwise, it is not and will not be, at least in the coming years. This is, if you like, a national character trait.

[washi]

Conclusion - a stranger is not allowed. Just like ours.

[GELEZNII_KAPUT]

According to official statistics, the aforementioned Yulia Yakusheva reports that the volume of mutual trade between the member states of the CU in 2012 increased by 8,7% compared with the previous year, foreign trade - by 3,2%. Belarus in 2012 increased exports within the CU by 10,2%, in Russia, exports increased by 1,6%, imports increased by 3,2%. In Kazakhstan, these growth rates were 6,1 and 26,6% .... if you read this paragraph, then everything else is not necessary to read !!!

[Circle]

N. Nazarbayev's interview to Vesti on Saturday. You can look and form your own opinion.

http://rutv.ru/brand/show/episode/106728/viewtype/picture

Belarus and Russia quite a long time ago created a single state, which in fact basically remained on paper. And only with the accession of Kazakhstan and the creation of the CU, the form, at least in the economic component, began to fill up specific content. A better foundation than economics cannot be devised for a possible political unification. But for now, even within the framework of the CU, a lot of questions really arise for each of the parties. It is necessary to calmly and deliberately solve them first of all. And then, when main the positions of the economic plan will be removed to move towards closer political integration. I simply don’t see any other reasonable way. And in order to keep populism and speculation of enemies on this issue under control, it is necessary to carry out active and at the same time balanced political work. With the understanding that the results of the work will most likely not even be in ten years. Such an evolutionary path of movement will undoubtedly be useful for all three countries.

As for the accession of Kyrgyzstan - today it may become an additional economic problem. Although the geopolitical significance of long-term cooperation is undoubtedly important (as discussed in the article). But again, without systematic calm work in this direction, additional problems can be obtained instead of benefits. And here the main thing is that, first of all, Russia does not act as it happened in the 90s with all its allies. And in the West (countries of the socialist camp), and in the Caucasus and Central Asia (former republics of the USSR).

[Nomad]

Quote: Floock

Sovereignty .. For Kazakhstan ... It's ridiculous! 16 million people live on a huge and rich territory - and as soon as we get full and final sovereignty from Russia, the Chinese (1lyard 300 million), or even Uzbeks (30 million) will do we have such an "offer" that we cannot refuse

As for the Uzbeks, you should not have been, if there were at least 50 million of them, we will have counter-offers for any of their proposals.

Quote: Floock

In Uzbekistan, by the way, there is no such theft and permissiveness, as in Kazakhstan. They are hardworking ants.

Hardworking, I agree, but theft and corruption they have even more. They take it even where we are not asked and given.

[The gentleman]

I’ve always been interested in the question, why do people want to clash with people who live nearby? Who needs it? Do we have few Kazakhs or few Uzbeks? Just regarding proposals, I don’t think anyone needs it, such proposals arise from outside. and regarding corruption, it is everywhere ...
ps words are said to support your words

[Beck]

Quote: Gentleman

I’ve always been interested in the question, why do they want to push the peoples who live nearby? Who needs it?

Nobody needs it, dear. If distracted from a certain fuse, then this is a problem for the whole world. The closer the peoples are, the closer they live to each other, the more some kind of unconscious household dislike. Mind then, to a normal person, everything is clear, but the words slip.

I explain this by the fact that age-old petty grievances, overlapping each other and lead to such a result. Examples. Russians and Ukrainians. Hungarians and Romanians. Poles and Ukrainians. Uzbeks and Kazakhs and so on. It’s easier to talk about a black man from another continent than about a neighbor. And this is confirmed by such, Remember Pakhtakor and Kairat. The Kazakhs allowed Kairat to lose even to the yard team, but not to Pakhtakor. And the Uzbeks have this - anyone wants to lose, but not Kairat.

[Siberian]

Quote: Gentleman

I’ve always been interested in the question, why do people want to clash with people who live nearby? Who needs it? Do we have few Kazakhs or few Uzbeks? Just regarding proposals, I don’t think anyone needs it, such proposals arise from outside. and regarding corruption, it is everywhere ...
ps words are said to support your words

I agree, neither the Uzbeks nor the Kazakhs need such "proposals", there will be no war - at least the Uzbeks will not start it - they love to build more than destroy. And Kazakhs are far from stupid people.

[Fox]

her ... even I am ochku, with SUCH customs union and its "allies", such as Kyrgyzstan. Again, the "evil occupier" Ivan build schools, hospitals, libraries, train the army, arm at his own expense ... maybe enough already ?! or the past did not teach anything?. my grandfather in the 30s in the Turkestan district of Basmachi drove ... so he said that "we need at least 35% of the Russians living there, that there would be order, and something was done" .... otherwise so they will sit on acacias, clinging to the branches with their tails.

[Phantom Revolution]

Alas, after the collapse of all the prosperous republics of the CIS, Russians are not very warmly treated, I don’t remember where they were in Uzbekistan or Tajikistan, they wrote on the doors of Russians, get out of here, in Kazakhstan, they replaced normal Russian specialists with our own. As a result, we see what we see, nezalezhnost from the Russian "Ivanov oppressors".

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Phantom Revolution

in Kazakhstan, in general, normal Russian specialists were replaced by their own.

absolute nonsense.

[Phantom Revolution]

During the period from 1990 to 1997, 1,2 million Russians left Kazakhstan, which amounted to almost 14% of the population, of which more than 90% went to Russia.
Due to emigration and the ethnic specificity of natural growth, the national composition of the country's population has changed a lot since 1990. Already at the beginning of the 1992 year, Kazakhs (8,13 million people) represented the absolute majority of the population (52%), while the Russians accounted for only 31,4%. The fear of discrimination was cited by the international human rights organization Human Rights Watch as the reason for the departure of Russians from Kazakhstan.

Statistics say the opposite.

[Marek Rozny]

Phantom,
Firstly, the mass emigration of Slavs from the KZ has long ceased. Moreover, Russians from the Russian Federation are increasingly moving to the KZ (retaining a Russian passport, but obtaining a residence permit). The migration flow of the RK-RF is almost the same in both directions.
Secondly, the migration of Slavs from Kazakhstan began in the 70s, dig a deeper question. In the 90s, the flow simply increased due to several reasons, the first of which is purely economic. There was no work or money in Kazakhstan.
Thirdly, most of the adult Slavs in Kazakhstan by 1991 were not natives of the Kazakh SSR. They arrived for work. And when the Soviet Union collapsed, many of them decided to GO BACK, they never planned to live outside of Russia. In the same way, those Kazakhs who were not natives of the RSFSR (but the indigenous Kazakhs of the Urals and Siberia) returned from Russia to the KZ.
Fourth, the migration from KZ to the Russian Federation was provoked by the then stupid law on forced migrants and refugees, according to which the state pledged to give a person with such a status a free apartment. As a result, all immigrants from the republics of the USSR were registered as "forced migrants" and "refugees", wrote essays about how they were allegedly humiliated, oppressed and other nonsense. The state essno could not provide millions of "refugees" with free apartments and the law was canceled. Then the screams about the oppressed Russians in KZ instantly disappeared. Slavic associations like "Lada" poured oil on the fire, milking the Russian budget, telling fables that allegedly the Russian language was cornered in the KZ and these "frets" need money to "save" Russian culture. The rogues worked there, but they milked a lot of dough from the Russian budget.
Moreover, this garbage was reinforced by your Russian politicians during the electoral games, appealing to the Russian electorate and promising to "save" the oppressed Russian compatriots in the near abroad if he is elected to power. These populists made blatant nonsense about the situation of Russians abroad, but people hawala. And our Russians, accustomed to focusing on the Russian press, succumbed to panic, they say, it is still calm now, but tomorrow the Kazakhs will enslave them in Kazakhstan.

Regarding Human Rights Watch, I am silent. For me, this is an engaged office.

[kirill110]

Good day, nothing personal, just data, dated July 12th.
According to the Consulate General of the Russian Federation in Almaty, over a six-year period, 62,8 thousand people took advantage of the state program (although initially within the framework of the program the annual planned population flow was expected to be up to 100 thousand people per year). In the same period, 127 thousand people independently emigrated from Kazakhstan to Russia.
A total of 190 thousand is the population of a medium-sized regional center. Go to the immigration branch, for example, the portal "Center of Gravity", there will be described the procedure for the deadlines (queue at the embassy, ​​however) for submitting documents. Mostly they come from the regions.
PS I’m not going to leave myself, just the facts.

[Marek Rozny]

Kirill,
190 thousand Russians left in 6 years. Roughly speaking, 30 thousand people a year. This is not such a terrible figure. Moreover, from Russia every year, fewer fewer people move to the KZ.
In addition, the Consulate General is silent about such a phenomenon as the return of ex-Kazakhstanis to the KZ. They retain Russian citizenship, but receive a residence permit in the KZ.

[Alibekulu]

Cyril would be better to bring statistics how many left Russia abroad..
By the way, your namesake actor Kirill Serebryakov "unscrewed" to Canada .. here is the link http://www.mk.ru/culture/interview/2012/03/02/677764-aleksey-serebryakov-stal-em
igrantom.html .. So, just a fact. Also, probably, the Kazakhs tried: "Suitcase, train station, Toronto" ?? !! By the way, we are Kennedy too.

[washi]

Complete nonsense. If there are no Russians left in the Republic of Kazakhstan, then there will be no one to work

[Marek Rozny]

Vasya, if you think that with your departure Kazakhstan has slipped into a hole, then you need to urgently contact the appropriate doctor. the more throats, loafers, losers and outright Natsik fell out of Kazakhstan, the better Kazakhstani people of all nationalities began to live.

[Phantom Revolution]

Above back in the 1 post, they answered you at the expense of specialists.

[The gentleman]

Well, finally, tin))))) damn, but funny)))) Phantom, come to Tashkent, I will take you to the regions and you will personally see the attitude towards the Russians, do not lie please here. It’s not true all this.

[washi]

And to Russia?
I was in Tashkent in1986. Around fast food. Everything that was restored is beautiful. Baltic states, but only with oriental specifics.

[Phantom Revolution]

Rather, you are lucky, maybe isolated cases, ala village rebelled, but here the situation is the same. Do you want to google what others write.

[elmi]

Quote: Floock

There is such a story - one Kazakh first worked himself, then "got up", hired an Uzbek. Then one more, then two more. And when the Uzbeks became five to one, they drove out the Kazakh and began to work for themselves. :)

Precisely noticed. No matter how it happened with the Chinese

[astra]

I’ll recover from the Kazakhs, I don’t have Uzbeks. I still consider all citizens of the union. And as for the Chinese, I’m worried that the Chinese, having become Russian citizens, are not assimilating with us, are more closely grouped together, and it wouldn’t happen that there will be more indigenous people in the Far East

[astra]

I’ll recover from the Kazakhs, I don’t have Uzbeks. I still consider all citizens of the union. And as for the Chinese, I’m worried that the Chinese, having become Russian citizens, are not assimilating with us, are more closely grouped together, and it wouldn’t happen that there will be more indigenous people in the Far East

[elmi]

I’ll recover from the Kazakhs, I don’t have Uzbeks. I still consider all citizens of the union. And as for the Chinese, I’m worried that the Chinese, having become Russian citizens, are not assimilating with us, are more closely grouped together, and it wouldn’t happen that there will be more indigenous people in the Far East

[elmi]

I’ll recover from the Kazakhs, I don’t have Uzbeks. I still consider all citizens of the union. And as for the Chinese, I’m worried that the Chinese, having become Russian citizens, are not assimilating with us, are more closely grouped together, and it wouldn’t happen that there will be more indigenous people in the Far East

[elmi]

I’ll recover from the Kazakhs, I don’t have Uzbeks. I still consider all citizens of the union. And as for the Chinese, I’m worried that the Chinese, having become Russian citizens, are not assimilating with us, are more closely grouped together, and it wouldn’t happen that there will be more indigenous people in the Far East

[Bekzat]

Greetings to all, and bastards all this, Kazakhstan now can not do anything without Russia. And the fact that it is against is the opposition and stands, because it loses control over its finances or secret economic activities. I have to travel around the city in a taxi a lot, I don’t have my own car, and sometimes I ask taxi drivers, you are not against joining Russia, and everyone has the same answer, Do not mind, but yes !!!

[washi]

He can do anything. He can sell the territory. Give a base to the USA or the Taliban. This is a separate country.

[zanyks]

For me, this is how our duraloms try in vain to make a political union. No one will ever voluntarily give up power. Even if 99% of the population is in favor of unification, 1% of the decision is made by the Walsti. Power is worse than any drug - it is a fact. Hence the scumbags like that deputy.
So only an economic association.
We do not need Kyrgyzstan (in my opinion). Now in the CU the most successful countries in the post-Soviet space. Lukashenko, Nazarbayev managed to keep the main enterprises. Putin managed to partially restore, partially save, partially build. Well done, despite the horror of color revolutions.
The rest of the post-Soviet space will only suck money. And the Kyrgyz and Tajiks and Uzbeks.

[washi]

It seems that recently the President of Uzbekistan Islam Karimov has had a clouding of reason - in the country preparations began for a major war in Central Asia. Previously, only a few experts spoke about this, who, on the whole, did not really believe it. But the other day, information leaked from the US Congress to the American press that Karimov wants to expand military cooperation with Washington.

According to informed congressmen, the Uzbeks dream of changing all of their Russian weapons to American. The president of Georgia Mikheil Saakashvili began in about the same way. His rapprochement with NATO ended in a great war with Russia.

The analogy is too transparent - everything that is happening can no longer be ignored. Moreover, the newspaper The New York Times reported earlier that Tashkent hopes to receive mountains of modern weapons from the Americans: helicopters, armored cars, night vision equipment, mine detectors, and navigation equipment. Now we are talking about modern drones - there are none even in the Russian army.

Officially, Tashkent asks for weapons to protect against Islamic militants. But analysts believe that this is just a legal cover. Even according to the Americans, "at the moment, the Islamists are not threatening Uzbekistan and other Central Asian states." So there’s one option: the Uzbek president decided to stock up on weapons for a military conflict with Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. He has recently sharpened relations with these countries because of the possible construction of huge hydropower plants there that could leave Uzbekistan without water and deprive its entire irrigated agriculture.

Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan are much smaller than Uzbekistan and, unlike it, work closely with Moscow. Although there is enough disagreement. Such a “geopolitical squiggle” is an almost complete tracing of the situation that has arisen before the conflict with Georgia. If Tashkent follows the path of Tbilisi, then, according to experts, Moscow will be forced to support the Kyrgyz and Tajiks. Moreover, it is possible to put pressure on Uzbekistan both by military and economic methods. To begin with, just send all the Uzbek janitors to their homeland. It is possible to form a certain analogue of the “wild division” or the famous “Muslim battalion” from the Uzbeks. At first glance, it sounds fantastic. But do not forget that, according to the very informed M. Saakashvili, about 58 ethnic Georgians fought in the 2008th Army and other Russian units in August 800.

[MstislavHrabr]

But it seems to me Karimov simply decided to breed amers. He will get weapons from them and everything that can be obtained for free ... Then he will sell something, leave something ... In general, an object for bargaining will appear ... Why refuse it ... And you can change the vector ...

[ultra]

Quote: MstislavHrabr

But it seems to me Karimov simply decided to breed amers.

This is good! The main thing is to have us more than once led!

Quote: MstislavHrabr

But it seems to me Karimov simply decided to breed amers.

This is good! The main thing is to have us more than once led!

[Siberian]

nonsense, weapons are needed to maintain combat effectiveness. Moreover, the Uzbek armed forces are not intended for war by the armies of other states. Her task is to maintain the regime, and training leads along the lines of anti-terror and counterguerrilla actions. The Armed Forces of Uzbekistan - a strengthened analogue of the Internal Troops of Russia.

[knn54]

Integration is needed. The world is now three-polar (whatever they say) -Russia, the USA and China. It is not clear yet with India.
The main objective of the United States is to create a conflict near the borders of Russia, for example, India-China, India-Pakistan,
with the involvement of the last number of Islamic countries. It’s worthwhile to draw the CA region into the conflict. In these (yet hypothetical) conflicts, the undecided republics of the SA can at least lose their integrity — Uzbekistan will lose the Ferghana Valley, Kyrgyzstan will split into the northern and southern parts or it will break up, as Tajikistan into a number of becks - Mountain Badakhshan is more and more difficult to keep.
Or a social explosion will simply happen, and the authorities are unlikely to be able to translate it into interethnic, as was the case in Ferghana or Osh (twice) - the Islamists do not sleep.
The Russian Federation and Kazakhstan do not need semi-gang clan emirates on the border.
It is not realistic to reanimate strategic enterprises in the republics of the region without Russian specialists and finances. But relations should be civilized — enough to be a cash cow.

[Igor]

The Kazakh opposition? I've been here on a business trip for more than a year, and I lived here before, but I never heard of it, they talk more about how I grew up. the opposition occupied the monument to Abai.)

[Marek Rozny]

Igor, please tell us your impressions of Kazakhstan. It is interesting to listen to a person who can compare some economic and cultural aspects of Russia and Kazakhstan.

[Igor]

Quote: Marek Rozny

Your impressions of Kazakhstan. It is interesting to listen to a person who can compare some economic and cultural aspects of Russia and Kazakhstan.

If you describe everything in general terms, then Kazakhstan is a mini-copy of the Russian Federation with small differences.

[Marek Rozny]

What do you like and do not like in KZ? And how do Kazakhs usually relate to Russians (and to Russia)? How do you feel oppressed or uncomfortable?

[Igor]

Quote: Marek Rozny

What do you like and do not like in KZ?

I don’t like corruption, too slow reforms or reforms for the sake of reforms here we used to reform the police to the police, to see ours adopted the experience of reforming the police from Kazakhstan.), In recent years, an influx of cheap labor from neighboring states has begun and it has been increasing every year. that there is no frenzied nationalism, it is true that southern Kazakhs (with a merchant mentality, although this is not always the case) do not like northern ones (their mentality tends to be more European), she once rode a train with a southerner in a train so she told me all the way how she did not like these northerners until my aunt shut her mouth, the overwhelming majority of Russians and Russians are normal, there is no religious fanaticism, although when interpreters of Islam from the Caucasus appear there will certainly be problems.

Quote: Marek Rozny

How do you feel oppressed or uncomfortable?

Oh, I don’t even know what to answer while I lived here. There was nothing like this, I was friends with everyone when the crowd fought against the crowd of separation according to nat. there was no sign, when in the army when there were a couple of aulsky Natsiks, they really went on their own, and so I didn’t make a career here so hz how are things going with this, though if you have brains you will make it that in business, that as a simple worker, though I almost never met Russian cops, but judging by the news they are somewhere)))

[Marek Rozny]

Thanks for the detailed answer.
Z.Y. There are few Russians in the police, because there are few of them in the army. If they served in the Kazakh army, they themselves were faced with the fact that ethnic Kazakhs mainly serve.

[Marek Rozny]

Wasserman: "We are growing together with Kazakhstan"

[Circle]

Onotole is sacred)))) But juggling with an object (by the way, the first time I see this in his interview) is completely inappropriate. And as usual, there is nothing to add to the disclosure of the issue.

[Galinanp]

It’s not for nothing that Putin pays so much attention to Ukraine. After joining the customs union, it will be a truly powerful self-sufficient association. Read. that in political economy there is a gradation in which the economy can develop progressively large indicators, provided that the domestic market is state. denominations should be with a population of at least 200 thousand people.

[Marek Rozny]

There is a theory that for modern self-sufficiency, the state needs at least 50 million citizens.
And as for Ukraine, then it should definitely be in the TS. The main thing is to attach them without prejudice to their interests and in the literal sense politely.
Before joining the CU, Ukraine must be included in a number of other integration projects of Kazakhstan, Russia and Belarus. For example, in the Grain Union with Russia and Kazakhstan. It will be the most powerful food "group" in Eurasia.

[washi]

Sorry, but do not include Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan so far. At least until they deal with their nationalists. There are still enough of those financed by the West both in Belarus and in Russia and Kazakhstan.

[OlegYugan]

Well, if you do not want to? Why push-YOUR COUNTRY RUSSIA need to raise and not the carers feed! And nobody has canceled the territorial issues with Kazakhstan.

Well, if you do not want to? Why push-YOUR COUNTRY RUSSIA need to raise and not the carers feed! And nobody has canceled the territorial issues with Kazakhstan.

[marshes]

Quote: OlegYugan

And nobody has canceled the territorial issues with Kazakhstan.

They have long decided and demarcated the border.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: OlegYugan

And nobody has canceled the territorial issues with Kazakhstan.

What other territorial issues?

[Cpa]

It’s all for nothing, why did Nazarbayev push the topic of the Holodomor. We already have enough fried. Bolotnaya, Sakharova, Zhanaozen, Osh, Maidan, Minsk were squeezed, nowhere else. I don’t understand his motivation, do people really like to discuss this topic or is it a bone to the west?

[Marek Rozny]

Do not start asking Kazakhs about the famine of the 30s. This is a very serious topic for the Kazakhs. However, Kazakhstan does not raise this issue in relations with Russia, as we are interested in the future, not the past.

[Cpa]

Last summer, your president started this game. There were no less troubles in Russia at that time, I also for the future, but why give such interviews to the west?

[Marek Rozny]

1) Is it customary in Russia to be silent about the repressions of the 30s? Or does society speak openly about it? Then why are the Kazakhs obliged to keep silent about the Holodomor, after which the Kazakhs actually lost half of their number? Can we still coordinate the speeches of politicians with Moscow? Squat three times and say "ku" is not necessary?
2) Nazarbayev rightly said that in the tsarist and early Soviet era, the Kazakh people suffered many troubles, and that now Kazakhstan is finally independent in making decisions and rules its own destiny. This bunch spoke of the famine. And the Russian media as usual pulled the phrase out of context.

Nazarbayev’s position regarding the famine is clearly stated:
"The famine and its terrible consequences became the largest humanitarian catastrophe of the Soviet period. Our people suffered enormous casualties. More than one and a half million people died from hunger. More than six hundred thousand Kazakhs, fleeing hunger and repression, migrated from their historical homeland. This is an enduring, unforgettable pain of ours. In the hearts of the people of Kazakhstan, in the people's memory, it will remain forever ...
In comprehending history, we must be wise, and not allow the politicization of this topic. The cruel policy of the Soviet regime became the reason for the famine, deportations and mass death of people. The main culprit in the repression is the inhuman totalitarian system. At the same time, we must remember the other side of our common history. Despite all the difficulties, thanks to the hospitality of the Kazakh people, all the deported found a new life in Kazakhstan. Their descendants today are our fellow citizens. Together we are building a strong, independent Kazakhstan along the path of peace and creation. "

Minister of Foreign Affairs of Kazakhstan:
"The President in Istanbul said that there are both positive and negative sides in our history. We in Kazakhstan do not indiscriminately blame neither the tsarist nor the Soviet period of our history. The President has said more than once that the Russian inhabitants of Kazakhstan are the same victims of the Soviet system like everyone else. We all suffered together. And now between Russia and Kazakhstan, flexible forms of interaction are needed - not imposed and not prevailing. "

[Cpa]

Everyone can talk about what is important to him. But the president doesn’t just say anything to the camera. It’s worth considering.

[Marek Rozny]

Yes, you just got used to looking for enemies in all neighbors, and now you are trying to blind an enemy from Nazarbayev. so that then obosr. all relations and smugly say: "What we are unhappy. Nobody loves us. Even Kazakhs turned out to be poop."

[Cpa]

Perhaps I will be a loyal ally of yours, you don’t know me. I don’t need to talk about what I think. A neighbor sometimes brings less harm than a relative. But I advocate an alliance without deception, are you against it? I will never approve of withdrawing political dividends on sorrow of the people, even if he is the president of my country, even if it is allied.

[Marek Rozny]

Sorry, by the word "you" I meant Russian politicians in general and especially the Russian press, which loves to look for Russia's enemies. Thanks to the chatter of the Russian press, all neighbors have already been made enemies, fooling the Russians themselves. I have an extremely negative opinion about the Russian media. I am not saying that there should be censorship, but the media should be socially responsible for the ongoing processes. And if they do not understand what it is, then really punish them. The media have no right to talk nonsense and nonsense. And even to the "unknown" tune. The media is a weapon, you yourself know.
And the words of Nazarbayev are taken out of context. Mentioned. And he did not lie or exaggerate. Or is it now forbidden for Kazakhs to recall their tragedies and talk about them? And in Russia, Russians are also silent about the events of that time? Of course not. Moreover, they are even more debated than the Kazakhs.

[Cpa]

The media are a weapon against society, a dissociative element. If they are not controlled by national security, then they become an instrument of another nation. The Internet is also the media, it has less and less unity for people. If there were no media there would be no terrorists, no one would know about them.

[Pere lachaise]

Quote: Beck

And he didn’t speak of any withdrawal from the EurAsEC. He said something like the following.

Why "about" if it is literally?

Quote: Marek Rozny

Grain Union with Russia and Kazakhstan. It will be the most powerful food "group"

Bold plus.

In my opinion, and many people I know, it would be useful for the standard of living of all our peoples to restore Soviet economic ties. However, this is considered by some to be a loss of sovereignty. There was no slavery in Russia. Did everyone raise virgin soil except the Russian ethnos? No. Then from whose ceiling does the thought fall on you that it will be just like that now? Debt relief - yes! New loans in Russia - yes! What about us?
We give you something, you give it to us, and together we have happiness. Equality - I, too, for him.

[Marek Rozny]

To strengthen the economic ties between Kazakhstan, Russia, Belarus, there are almost no obstacles.

Kazakhstan does not need Russian loans and "debt cancellation".

And so we think the same way)

[Pere lachaise]

Here I am not specifically about Kazakhstan, but about the tendency of thinking of some elites.
And eat the fish and ..

[Yeraz]

Well, Kyrgyzstan is another subsidized republic. The path of the Soviet Union is repeated. And Kazakhs are great only for national interests.

By the way, this year there will be a joint exercise of the special forces of Turkey, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan.

Ps. For those who write right now they say they saw what they did to the Turkish special forces in Syria, provide a photo, video, or at least a statement from the Syrian leadership that has not yet confirmed this duck. Do not litter with a stupid argument or confirmed nothing but information someone said something somewhere.

[Marek Rozny]

I hope that someday Azerbaijan will join the Eurasian Union as an equal and respected participant who will be able to observe its own interests and at the same time bring benefits to our association.

[Yeraz]

Marek

 Show / Hide text

I have always believed that until the Russian Federation establishes a strategic alliance with the Turkic world, it does not have to be a great power. But the Russian Federation supports our enemies, stimulates their economy and arms it almost for free, and somewhere completely free. Therefore, we do not have to be in this organization, which itself it’s not yet clearly formed. Moreover, Azerbaijan is economically stronger and it would give benefits rather than absorb it. But we can cooperate with the Turks in other organizations. Especially with Kazakhstan we cooperate in all areas. This year there will be general exercises of special forces, our diaspora in Kazakhstan, which remained 90 percent there, unlike other Caucasians who had to get out of there, who did not appreciate the hospitality of the Kazakhs when they sent us all there.
And these Vasi Masi are also useful, thanks to them some blind people can understand that friendship is friendship, but brother is brother. And our enemies know this, therefore, the Armenians being in the Collective Security Treaty Organization still signed an additional defense treaty with the Russian Federation, they understand that our Kazakh and Kyrgyz brothers, members of the CSTO, even if the charter of the CSTO is violated, they will not raise weapons against their brothers from the Caucasus, but vice versa. VATANYMYZ BIR !!! Homeland alone.

[ultra]

Quote: Yeraz

I always thought until Russia established a strategic alliance with the Turkic world

As I understand it, you include Turkey in the Turkic world, when there are such "allies", then there is no need for enemies!

[Yeraz]

Quote: ultra

As I understand it, you include Turkey in the Turkic world, when there are such "allies", then there is no need for enemies!

Of course, this will be the most powerful ally. Then, why can the Russian Federation be without allies ?? This does not happen, the same USA has Europe nearby and a strategic alliance with the richest and most influential countries of the Middle East. 1 is not a warrior in the field. If you recall the insults of ancient times There will be no forward movement. And the Russians do not hate the Turks so fiercely and the Russians didn’t pour the greatest blood with the Turks, they shed more blood with their brothers in faith in Europe. The Turks want to regain their influence, but the influence was in the Middle East and Europe .They are simply forced to be with them for now, although they are gradually choosing neo-Ottomanism, but still they can’t stand alone against the West, that’s what they are doing in their politics because no matter how much they say, there is no other force in the world that competes on equal footing It would be with the West. The Turks bent half of Europe and the whole East. It will receive the Russian Federation such a strong state under the belly of Europe and over the head of the East can lay claim to world leadership. But in order to get Turkey, we must now clearly plan.

[pinecone]

That's right, Comrade Civil. Integration with the Central Asian khanates focused on the Turkish project of creating the Great Turan is unnatural. Nazarbay agent of Ankara, for which they put a bronze monument there. Mutually beneficial trade-YES, integration, that is, unification into a single whole-NO ..
Long live the RUB! RUSSIA- UKRAINE-BELARUS
Will be RUB - no one will be afraid of us, if that happens - we’ll chop all the enemies!

[Marek Rozny]

Nazarbayev is also an agent of Kyrgyzstan, Ukraine and Moldova, where he was also erected monuments)))

[Yeraz]

And what kind of Turan are you talking about ????? The wrong historical period, there is no recognition of yourself as a Turan and no one in the world will allow the unification of 200 million Turks with huge resources and more technologically advanced than the Arab world.
Now countries are striving for cultural unification. But even this annoys some patriots, the Kazakhs and Azerbaijanis do not make a vocal channel about uniting or attempting this between Russia, Ukraine and the BR. Although these unions are deeper than between the Turks. But how do we try to do so so all or it is against the Russian Federation or amers do it.
But there is nothing to be avoided, the world is global somewhere slow, somewhere with the quick steps culturally we will be getting closer, the ultural rebirth of the Türks, the return to the roots is a natural process.

And now cheers patriots throw their cons)))

[Earthman]

Quote: Yeraz

And what kind of Turan are you talking about ????? The wrong historical period, there is no recognition of yourself as a Turan and no one in the world will allow the unification of 200 million Turks with huge resources and more technologically advanced than the Arab world.
Now countries are striving for cultural unification. But even this annoys some patriots, the Kazakhs and Azerbaijanis do not make a vocal channel about uniting or attempting this between Russia, Ukraine and the BR. Although these unions are deeper than between the Turks. But how do we try to do so so all or it is against the Russian Federation or amers do it.
But there is nothing to be avoided, the world is global somewhere slow, somewhere with the quick steps culturally we will be getting closer, the ultural rebirth of the Türks, the return to the roots is a natural process.

Maybe even in 1000 years the world will come to one global culture, where one culture will not dominate, but it will be common.

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: Earthman

Maybe even in 1000 years the world will come to one global culture, where one culture will not dominate, but it will be common.

You are direct conceptual! Maybe even after 100 years. Wait and see!

[Galinanp]

When Nazarbayev goes, I think these dances with the Turks will stop. And the very idea of ​​the Turkic union has been tainted, the Turks aspire to supremacy, Nazarbayev too, Azerbaijanis on the side of the Turks. Atanbaev has his own cockroaches in his head, in general all this whistle goes to the tune of the Americans.

[Marek Rozny]

If you are brought up to perceive Turks as enemies and therefore hope that the Kazakhs will cease to be friends with the Turks, then you are mistaken. Turkey has always provided assistance to the Kazakhs, became the second homeland for Kazakh refugees during the Holodomor (they came there through Iran). Turkey provided assistance to Kazakh prisoners of war during the Second World War. Turkey was the first to recognize the independence of Kazakhstan and provided serious financial support to the young republic.
The Kazakhs treat Turkey as a state quite well. Turkey does not claim any real leadership. Moreover, they even teach in schools that their historical homeland is the Kazakh steppes.
And the fact that tsarist Russia fought several times (and not always successfully) with the Ottoman Empire is a jamb precisely from Russia, which invaded the zone of influence of Turkey (Crimea, the Caucasus, the Balkans). Turkey did not climb to Russia; it was Russia that provoked all Turkish campaigns. Plus, the British pitted both sides.
And the United States has nothing to do with it. They are not involved in the development of pan-Turkism. But they do not interfere.

[SPACE]

Marek Rozny. Turkey provided assistance to Kazakh prisoners of war during the Second World War. And who captivated them? and how help.

[Marek Rozny]

Naturally, the Germans were captured. The Turks provided humanitarian aid to Soviet prisoners of war of Turkic nationality. After the creation of various Turkestan committees and legions, the Turks gave Turkish citizenship to all Turks who wished, and thereby removed them from German captivity. And after the Germans informed the prisoners of war that after returning to the USSR camps or execution were waiting for them, Turkey granted them refuge and saved thousands of Soviet Turks who entered the Turkestan legion in order to escape from the concentration camp.

[SPACE]

Marek Rozny. "And the fact that tsarist Russia fought several times (and not always successfully) with the Ottoman Empire, it is a jamb from Russia, which invaded Turkey's zone of influence (Crimea, Caucasus, Balkans). Turkey did not climb to Russia, this is Russia provoked all Turkish campaigns. "
Yes, certainly not successful. You do not know by chance who is Count Rymniksky and Ushak Pasha? Crimea is now Ukrainian, and in the Caucasus, in my opinion, Russia does not know what to do, ask, maybe they will give it back. What should I now tear my hair on my head and sprinkle ashes for the fact that the Russians beat you?

[Marek Rozny]

Why are these particulars? I say that Russia itself climbed to Turkey, and not vice versa.
and I am Kazakh, not Turk.

[Skuto]

Many comrades express the idea that under no circumstances should Central Asia be taken into a union; I will not list all of their arguments, the most popular: "Why do we need parasites?" However, look at the map, Central Asia is located in the underbelly of Russia. Shielding them now means reaping the big problems of years through 10-15. It is better now to create jobs there, raise them and your economy, and increase defense capabilities. Otherwise, tomorrow there will be either a PLA bridgehead or a powder keg of the typical Balkan.

[SPACE]

Of all the former fraternal republics of the USSR, I consider the Kazakhs to be the smartest, and the most stupid Ukrainians, no offense. The Baltics and Georgia are a clinic. Everything is clear with the Belarusians. With the Ukrainians, like the Slavs, but rowing in the other direction, in short, pissing against the wind. But what happens to the Kazakhs, on the one hand, they seem to be rowing correctly ... But Kazakh independence, like the independence of many countries, is based, first of all, on the basis of an international security system, one of the elements of which Russia has always been and will remain. And Kazakhstan has the longest border with Russia and, as mentioned here, there are many similarities, which naturally leads to integration, which is what Nazarbayev is striving for. But the Kazakh business elite is afraid that the Russians will crush the Kazakh business, and the fear of losing independence is just their arguments against it. In addition, virtual reality interferes, they convinced themselves that the Russian invaders. Meanwhile, the Kazakhs should be grateful to Lenin for the fact that he saved their territory for them and saved them from Bais, many meanwhile grew up and gradually forget their roots and their history, all of them suddenly have ancestors became Bais and Khans, they forgot what "oh buy "and the class struggle ... But Russia clearly does not need this, Russia needs something else, that it was a normal and reliable partner in international affairs and an ally in the Chinese direction, this also worries the Kazakh leadership, because in case of violation of the existing order and international security standards and the departure of Kazakhstan from Russia. I would probably not put even tenge on Kazakhstan, neither the Turks nor the Americans will help here, or rather, they will gladly help, only after such help it is necessary to count the fingers, as they say in the east. And this is not to mention the ongoing events in the Middle East. Who can guarantee that the gaze of the wolf will not fall on Kazakhstan, few people say hello. I would like Kazakhstan to remain a secular state and decide, otherwise you can chase two hares and have nothing to catch. As they say here, pessimists learn Chinese, optimists English, realists a Kalashnikov assault rifle. You have to be cool, it's even better to have an older brother.
Z.Y. Rewriting a story is even worse than forgetting it, and changing it is completely impossible.

[marshes]

Quote: SPACE

. Rewriting a story is even worse than forgetting it, and changing it is completely impossible.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%9E%D0%BA%D1%82%D
1%8F%D0%B1%D1%80%D1%8C

[CAPILATUS]

it's like that! The one who does not remember the story has no future (s)
The Kazakhstani elite lives in some kind of virtual world, not quite soberly comprehending what is happening.
I now live in Canada and there are a lot of Chinese here, I encounter a lot of them both at work and at home. So you can’t even imagine what nationalists they are. The Chinese will invade Kazakhstan - the time of Kazakhstan under the USSR will seem sweeter than honey.
About Nazarbayev's "waggling". I don’t think that this is senile insanity, he was always the smartest man and knew how to find a middle ground (while not forgetting about himself a loved one), I think that this is from the category “and Vaska listens, but eats”, that is, he has his own, a clear plan that, despite playing in public, he follows

[marshes]

Quote: CAPILATUS

I now live in Canada and there are a lot of Chinese here, I encounter a lot of them both at work and at home. So you can’t even imagine what nationalists they are. The Chinese will invade Kazakhstan - the time of Kazakhstan under the USSR will seem sweeter than honey.

How are the Indians of Canada?
20 years have passed and that the Chinese did not invade?

[CAPILATUS]

I did not understand the question.
What side are the Indians here, do not explain?
The Indians have their own land, they are its owners and sole users, and it is protected by law from any encroachment, be it Chinese, or someone else

[SPACE]

The main problem of Kazakhstan in the future is that Nazarbayev unfortunately is not eternal!

[marshes]

Quote: SPACE

The main problem of Kazakhstan in the future is that Nazarbayev unfortunately is not eternal!

Have you seen the video with Vasserman to the end? There are answers.

[SPACE]

No, in the mountains the Internet is weak Yes, and I do not trust him.

[marshes]

Quote: SPACE

No, in the mountains the Internet is weak

He described the approximate alignment of forces in Kazakhstan who controls everything.

[Marek Rozny]

And what? Is Nazarbayev the only adequate Kazakh?

[Aleks28]

Quote: Marek Rozny

And what? Is Nazarbayev the only adequate Kazakh?

You perfectly understood what Cosmos had in mind, Kazakhstan is an eastern country, and it’s time for Elbasy to think about a receiver, otherwise it’s not an hour .... In short, a buza can come out.

[Marek Rozny]

There is already a successor. Only since we are truly an "eastern country", we cannot officially talk about it. Either they will kill or substitute competitors. Imangali Tasmagambetov is. The first who guessed about the identity of the successor was Rakhat Aliyev, who staged hysteria against him, and every week "Caravan" published articles on the topic "Tasmagambetov is a scoundrel and scoundrel." Aliyev had his own ambitious plans regarding his political status after the "Nazarbayev era".
Nazarbayev himself, essno, denies the existence of a successor, but here everything is already clear.

[Aleks28]

Quote: Marek Rozny

There is already a successor.

But this is really good news for me. If so, then everything will go fine further.

[Earthman]

Quote: Marek Rozny

There is already a successor

You revealed the secret

[Marek Rozny]

This is already an open secret.

[Earthman]

Quote: SPACE

Rewriting a story is even worse than forgetting it, and changing it is completely impossible.

With this, you are bent, as with many others above

[SPACE]

Thanks swamps for the information. Argument. But in this case, it is better to go aside. What do you think? History needs to be remembered, but what about resentment?

[marshes]

Quote: SPACE

. What do you think? History needs to be remembered, but what about resentment?

Do not repeat this in the future.
Here is an interesting:
During the arrival of Nursultan Nazarbayev to Moscow in March 2012, a rather unusual scene took place right at the airport. According to a source from Russian corridors of power, Leonid Slutsky, chairman of the Duma Committee on CIS Affairs, unexpectedly appeared on the take-off field and headed for the front ranks with a confident step. The guest was stopped by the security and protocol service: they say, I'm sorry, but you are not on the official meeting list.

But there is no power on earth capable of stopping the motivated deputy Slutsky: a few months before the events described, he, as you know, landed in a helicopter right on the territory of the Trinity-Sergius Lavra. The parliamentarian took the head of the Russian delegation by the arm and managed to get to the ramp under the gaze of the guards.

Further was a matter of technology. Nazarbayev could not refuse to talk to the man who stood next to the head of the Russian delegation. However, this was not enough for the parliamentarian. As soon as the President of Kazakhstan got to the guest mansion allocated to him, an insistent deputy was there again unexpectedly. And again, Nazarbayev could not refuse him a conversation.
Full: http: //www.mk.ru/politics/russia/article/2013/01/31/806106-po
chemu-naz
arbaev-razlyubil-soyuz.html
Again, someone is trying to solve for us.

[SPACE]

If you are afraid, don't do, you do, don't be afraid. As the ancient Greeks said, "who does not know where he is sailing, there are no favorable winds for that."

[Jet]

re-export of Chinese used cars?

[Marek Rozny]

I, too, this phrase cut my eyes.

[Smoke]

I respect the decision on the integration of V.V. Putin, I still think that in the case of Central Asia, the political methods of integration are wrong. They don’t understand what is good, they must first penetrate the good with a whip and then integrate. Although maybe everything is going to this and little by little

[Marek Rozny]

has the nut grown?

[hommer]

Quote: Marek Rozny

has the nut grown?

Do not get fooled by provocation of patients of Kashchenko clinic.

[Celmz]

it is necessary to ask the people, than someone who clearly works out)

[dsf43rewdsg]

Imagine, it turns out that our authorities have complete information about each of us. And now she has appeared on the Internet in free use at nutshellurl.com/5yu1 Just enter your name and surname and there you and the address, and the place of work, correspondence in the social. networks, and even found my intimate photos, I can’t imagine where it came from ... In general, I was very scared. But there is also good - the data can be deleted, I used it myself and I advise you ...

[Rezun]

Central Asia and Kazakhstan are waiting ...
Russia will "crush" Ukraine, or Ukraine will remember its roots ...
This tragedy was committed by Russia-Ukraine-Belarus and should be completed by them.
GREAT PEOPLE must reunite!

[Circle]

Yes, the robust Presidents swelled then. For more than 20 years, all 15 republics have been expectorating ..

[tm70-71]

Kyrgyzstan is a great country, if the Kazakhs ask us to be part of the "Northern region", we will think, (Kazakhs cry), We are not on our way with the Turks, in the TS, we do not want you all stuck to us, we are on our own You are on your own!

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: tm70-71

Kyrgyzstan is a great country,

Well, very straight!

Quote: tm70-71

if the Kazakhs ask us to join the "Northern Region", we will think, (Kazakhs cry),

Quote: tm70-71

why are you all pestering us, we are on our own you are our own!

You yourself can only arrange a revolution and a rowdy. And 1 million of its citizens from the "good" life probably go to Russia to work.

[tm70-71]

Well, he’s straight on Central Asian, I’m telling you: Kyrgyzstan is a great country, you Kazakhs are awesomely lucky with the leader, and you haven’t left us

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: tm70-71

Well, it’s straight He Alitek Central Asian

For the record!

[Marek Rozny]

From your lips the phrase "Kyrgyzstan is a Great Country" sounds very fake and looks more like your desire for neighbors to laugh at the Kyrgyz more. Considering that you are not Kyrgyz, this is pure provocation.

Not only Kazakhstani people were lucky with the president, but the president was lucky with the people.

[tm70-71]

You’re already sick of it, you, as a mantra, mutter it from topic to topic, do not you teach me

[tm70-71]

That's what I like about the Russian Empire, it wasn’t nationality there, it was Orthodox, Jews, Muslims, that’s how it should be.

[Marek Rozny]

yeah, and at the same time in the Russian Empire there was a qualification for foreigners to live in large cities.

[tm70-71]

You do not distort

[Beck]

Quote: tm70-71

That's what I like about the Russian Empire, it wasn’t nationality there, it was Orthodox, Jews, Muslims, that’s how it should be.

I agree. There was a divide by religion. But this is in addition to the main divide.

Great Russians. Little Russians. Foreigners. the Jews

[Marek Rozny]

What's wrong, Cossack? Flared up because I told the truth about you? You are not Kyrgyz. In all posts you smear Kyrgyzstan. But here I wrote an obvious provocation about "Great Kyrgyzstan" so that the neighbors would start laughing and lower your republic below the plinth. Who are you by nation and worldview? Absolutely understandable, Cossack.

[tm70-71]

You just forgot to insert the word "sent" hammer into the phrase, you have already hung labels for everyone, maybe you can throw in my money for the move, I will not give up (money)

[Marek Rozny]

you're not mishandled, you're late for the train.

[tm70-71]

I understand that there will be no money, everything was flooded with saliva here, I don’t like trains — better by plane, and by the way, what do you dislike about a word-plane?

[Marek Rozny]

I do not care. it worries Russians that Kazakhs do not blindly borrow foreign words. although in fact it’s their banal excuse.

[Earthman]

Quote: tm70-71

I understand that there will be no money, everything was flooded with saliva here, I don’t like trains — better by plane, and by the way, what do you dislike about a word-plane?

Dear Valery, I ask you to calm down and not to ridicule Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.

Find a common language with a person

[tm70-71]

Well, somewhere yours is true, but "Russian shoviks" - I couldn't even dream in a dream, I don't like smart people

[spok]

and what about the Russian genocide in these republics that everyone forgot?
I have friends who talked about rather terrible things happening in these parts in relation to the Russian-speaking population

[Circle]

Genocide (from the Greek γένος - clan, tribe and Latin caedo - I kill) - actions committed with the intention to destroy, in whole or in part, any national, ethnic, racial or religious group as such by:
* killings of members of this group;
* causing serious harm to their health;
* measures designed to prevent childbearing in such a group;
* forced transfer of children;
* the deliberate creation of living conditions, designed for full or partial physical destruction of this group.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Геноцид

In which country, under what circumstances and according to which of the definitions did they tell you about the Russian genocide?

[Marek Rozny]

yes, all the Russians in Kazakhstan were eaten by Kazakh cannibals. somewhere else, two Ivanovs are hiding in the mountains, but we will certainly catch and fry them.

[Aleks28]

Quote from spok

I have friends who talked about rather terrible things happening in these parts in relation to the Russian-speaking population

And you don’t rely on acquaintances, go and see for yourself. I also have a friend, so when he moved from Kazakhstan to Russia, he managed to get refugee status (This is in peace time). I imagine that he spoke there.

[Beck]

Quote: Allex28

I also have a friend, so when he moved from Kazakhstan to Russia, he managed to get refugee status (This is in peacetime). I imagine that he spoke there.

BRAVO. And I have already despaired of a sound word from a Russian person to a Russian cheer patriot addressed on this page to hear.

80% of Germans left Kazakhstan at the end of 90 and 80. But nowhere have I heard the Germans say that they were thrown out, and such nonsense was taken away at home. They just left for their historic homeland. And it was bad for Kazakhstan.

[Aleks28]

Quote: Beck

80% of Germans left Kazakhstan at the end of 90 and 80. But I never heard that the Germans said that they were thrown out, the houses were taken away and such nonsense

There are such people as they say (both from Kazakhstan and Russia), but they are a minority, and they don’t cause anything but disgust. They were difficult times, but it was hard for everyone, regardless of national affiliation. One can say that neither who nor anyone survived from their homes. It was a voluntary choice for everyone.

[Marek Rozny]

Allex, ich bin froh, dass du richtig sprichst. Danke! Meiner Meinung nach, unsere deutschen Leute immer vernünftig waren.

[tommy1984]

There are such people as they say (both from Kazakhstan and Russia), but they are a minority, and they don’t cause anything but disgust. They were difficult times, but it was hard for everyone, regardless of national affiliation. One can say that neither who nor anyone survived from their homes. It was a voluntary choice for everyone.


I totally agree.

[Earthman]

Quote: Beck

80% of Germans left Kazakhstan at the end of 90 and 80. But nowhere have I heard the Germans say that they were thrown out, and such nonsense was taken away at home. They just left for their historic homeland. And it was bad for Kazakhstan.

The same Germans, Jews, according to the then programs of their countries, went away on visas with a return to their historical homeland.

In the 1990s and 00s, Israel, Germany, Kazakhstan dealt with the return of the indigenous population, now they have already turned many programs off, I heard that Russia has opened such a program, but something Russians from Kazakhstan are not eager to leave for Russia in order to become poor.

as the Kazakh proverb says: Ozgé elde sultan bolgan, oz elde sultan bol. Than to be a servant in a foreign land, be a sultan in your homeland. And for all Russians born in the Republic of Kazakhstan and consciously recognizing Kazakhstan as their homeland, Kazakhstan will always be their Motherland as soon as they think about it and recognize it, and no one dares to drive them out or someone else.

[Galinanp]

Marek Rozny (5) US Yesterday, 23:34 PM ↑
If you are brought up to perceive Turks as enemies
My upbringing does not differ from the upbringing of all Russians in their perception of Turkey in a historical context. As for your interpretation of history, here everything is turned upside down and this is done either with intent or by misunderstanding. Did you intentionally or not use the word famine? There was a great jute (this is a massive death of cattle due to weather conditions or epidemics, and the main product of the Kazakhs is meat).
And the fact that tsarist Russia fought several times (and not always successfully) with the Ottoman Empire is a jamb precisely from Russia, which invaded the zone of influence of Turkey (Crimea, the Caucasus, the Balkans). Turkey did not climb to Russia; it was Russia that provoked all Turkish campaigns.
The list of all military companies in Russia with Turkey:
1596-1608 battles on the southern borders of Russia., 1631 - Don Cossacks stopped 100 thousand Janissary corps under the captured Azov, which was marching to Moscow, 1672-1684 the Turks devastated south-western Ukraine and the war against them of the coalition of Austria, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Russia, 1711 - defeat of Peter 1 on the Prut river from the Turks, then the company 1730-40, 1768-1774, 1787-91, 1806-12, 1828-29, 1856 - Crimean War , 1877-78 The only defeat was on the Prut river. Crimea was conquered as a source of constant forays into the depths of Russia by the Crimean Tatars, the Caucasus - the protection of Christian Georgia, Armenia from extermination, the Balkans - the wars began after the savage massacre of Right-wing Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians. Even Western Europe, allied with the Turks, issued an ultimatum to the Turks. Where is the "joint" here. "Jamb" is most likely in your worldview position.

[tm70-71]

Galina You a huge fat plus!

[Marek Rozny]

Galina, what a jute in the 30s ??? A total confiscation of livestock was carried out by order of the first head of the republic Goloshchekin! You should at least read something before talking about these events! How many of us are twisting everything here?

Galina, study the background of the Russian-Turkish wars. It all started with the fact that Ivan the Terrible attacked the Crimea and burned one of the local cities. Russia wanted to capture Crimea - access to the Black Sea, which soon came under Turkish jurisdiction (the Crimean Tatars themselves asked for protection from the Ottoman Empire). All centuries, Russia stubbornly climbed into the Crimea, until it finally occupied this peninsula in the 18th century. Further more - Russia decided to conquer the Caucasus, where Turkey (and Persia) also traditionally dominated. And in between, Russia captured Astrakhan and the local khan asked the Turks for help.
In addition, in the 17th century, Russia intervened in the Turkish-Polish war on its own initiative to take away Polish lands. Then she decided to take away Moldova, which were also in the Turkish zone of influence. Well, and Russia's attempt to take the Balkans later. Fortunately, there is always a reason for war.
The last initiative attempt of the Crimeans to fight with Russia was stopped in the Battle of Molodi under Ivan the Terrible. Everything else is Russia's attacks on the Crimea. Moreover, I note that the Crimea did not just climb Ivan the Terrible. The Crimeans were outraged that Grozny attacked Astrakhan and Kazan, and not only attacked, but also massacred there. The Crimean Khan vowed that he would seek the liberation of Astrakhan and Kazan until the last minute of his life.
Galina, do you really not understand that Russia itself was pursuing an aggressive policy and constant expansion in the territory of neighboring states? What are the Turks! Even the Chukchi fought for 200 years with the Russians who sought to seize their territory. Now they are cute characters of stupid anecdotes, and once they offered tough resistance to the Russian army. Don't make the Russian Empire "white and fluffy". It was Russia that invaded Turkish possessions, and not vice versa. The monarchs kept their Russian peasants for slaves and cattle, and then they suddenly shed tears over the fate of Georgians or Moldovans ... Wah, what a touching concern for foreigners. Amazing philanthropy in the days of serf Russia.

ZY Hitler also attacked Czechoslovakia on a plausible pretext. They say that the Czechs oppressed the German diaspora. Aloizych was guided only by the desire to "help his relatives". And the USSR, just as disinterestedly "liberated" Moldovans from Romanian slavery. He also tried to "free" the Finnish and Iranian peoples from the oppression of their governments.

[tm70-71]

So it is necessary to eat textbooks on history for you to write, what is on the forum, yes, no to academics.

[Marek Rozny]

Everything is already written. Read and find out.

[tm70-71]

Well so different they somehow turn out, Do not you think

[Marek Rozny]

is that why all Russian shoviks have a distinctive feature - illiteracy? coincidence or pattern?

[tm70-71]

And who told you that I am Russian, my name, well, you give, there is such a thing as the Russian world, you know a lot of nationalities there, you can’t even imagine.

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: tm70-71

The Russian world, you know a lot of nationalities there, you can’t even imagine.

All nations of the world!

[Earthman]

Quote: tm70-71

And who told you that I am Russian, my name, well, you give, there is such a thing as the Russian world, you know a lot of nationalities there, you can’t even imagine.

Veleri, why are you so angry?

[Marek Rozny]

you're like a descendant of the Cossacks There are few options - either Russian, or a descendant of the long-Russified Turks.

[tm70-71]

What difference does it make to you, by the way, how will "Russified" be in Kazakh? Or do you only go to the forum with kosher ones to chat?

[Marek Rozny]

If you were a Kazakh, you would call you a Kazakh chauvinist. And so - the Russian shovik.

[tm70-71]

The answer is not correct. If you want to find a "shovik" - look in the mirror

[Marek Rozny]

Have you learned the Kyrgyz language? Or did Kazakh "chauvinists" interfere?

[tm70-71]

Do you want to take an exam in Kyrgyzstan? Do you have a lot of honor?

[Marek Rozny]

Jäger sen kyrgyzsha bilsen, ayta ber. Less, Sen Cossack Tusinesin. Ras pa?

[tm70-71]

Men Kyrgyz Tushunum, Kazakh Bilbeim, you have some kind of language with your own sha, cha

[Marek Rozny]

Ay jaraisyn! Maladez! Wasps ushin seni kurmettemin. Respect and respect.

[ia-ai00]

Will this language greatly "enrich" the spiritual world? And the fact that even Kazakhs do not know Kazakh in the cities is, excuse me, the fault of the quality of school education, so that there are claims to the Ministry of Education!

[Marek Rozny]

in du.rak no language will increase the "spiritual world". and the clever will be enriched with each new language. and stop nodding at someone. in all the CIS countries Russians are “not satisfied” with the language policy and they blame everyone for their ignorance of the language, but not themselves.

[Earthman]

Quote: ia-ai00

Will this language greatly "enrich" the spiritual world? And the fact that even Kazakhs do not know Kazakh in the cities is, excuse me, the fault of the quality of school education, so that there are claims to the Ministry of Education!

In yours and in Russian it was not necessary to speak under Peter the Great, under Pushkin. What language did they write in, where did they receive their education?
Before you sit and make fun of the Kazakh language like a clubfoot, you would learn the origins of the language you speak every day.

Surviving the survivor does not laugh.

This Cyrillic rude Kazakh language to complex words, so they also want to go to the Latin alphabet so that sounds like ayul disappear, and so that there is an aul. However, even the non-Kazakhs are not getting into their own business and shouting about some kind of nationalism and pan-Turkism

[Earthman]

Quote: Marek Rozny

is that why all Russian shoviks have a distinctive feature - illiteracy? coincidence or pattern?

This is most likely an indicator of self-manifestation, you see that errors are elementary and non-special, oh, you can already consider that a person is and can be like that

[Galinanp]

Marek Rozny (5) US Today, 12:50
.You "historical knowledge" picked up from the mukalatura "national foda of democracy" of the United States. Here is the whole starting point, you are liberal, I am a Russian conservative. And these are two belligerents in the current information war of the West against Russia.

[Marek Rozny]

So are you masculine? Sorry, the nickname was confusing.
1) The fact that you have no idea about the famine in Kazakhstan in the 30s does not mean that I allegedly draw something from American waste paper. You are simply trying to cover up your shameful ignorance of the history of the country in which you live. Even the Soviet era recognized this jamb, and Goloshchekin was eventually shot for these "excesses".
2) Russian conservatives are better off living in Russia. There is no need for a "fifth column" in Kazakhstan. You can be a patriot of Russia and be a citizen and patriot of Kazakhstan. And if you even do not understand the history of Soviet Kazakhstan, then what kind of patriot are you of your fatherland? And if you are so indifferent and contemptuous of this state, maybe it would be better for you to try your luck where the concept of "Russian conservative" will be adequately perceived? True, I am afraid that your Russian culture is not sickly lame - "mukalatura", "leberal" ... You, comrade conservative, at least would have learned your native language. Nemese biz kazaksha soylesemiz? Which language is more convenient for you?

[Galinanp]

Marek Rozny (5) US Today, 14:17
At least some variety was made in their comments in the form of a cover, or even stupidly directly according to the State Depot templates, the Americans stopped in their technologies for stamping fighters of the information war.

[Marek Rozny]

Galina, write me in a personal, I will give my phone. And if you are in Astana, then we’ll go have a drink. Aren't you scared of an American intelligence officer?

[cumastra1]

a little about the Russian economy. I will not say anything bad about the Olympic movement and all that, but to pull out $ 50 billion to run is a little wasteful in my opinion. How many families can be resettled into apartments with this money? Well, a million for sure. So much for the population growth, both working hands and neighbors will see such things and think about the good.

[sprut]

Russia needs to pay more attention to pro-Russian parties in Kazakhstan. In every possible way to support. Export Russian language.

[Marek Rozny]

There are no pro-Russian, pro-American, pro-Turkish or any other pro-parties in Kazakhstan. And the Russian language in our country does not need special attention. We own it even without "exporters".

[sprut]

Nonsense. I repeat, the Russian language in Kazakhstan should not have an official status, but a state one. And parties must be pro-Russian - EVERYTHING. :-)

[Earthman]

Quote: sprut

I repeat, the Russian language in Kazakhstan should not have an official status, but a state one.

Here you can already declare that you are a provocateur.

Quote: sprut

And parties must be pro-Russian - EVERYTHING. :-)

yeah, and so that they begin to fool like all the Russians?
No, it’s not necessary, let there be one common party, and not clowns of all stripes and hypocrites

[ia-ai00]

Let's see, see ... And then you may have to learn soon, for example, Chinese ...

[Marek Rozny]

do not scare, Eeyore. We have been fighting and trading with the Chinese for a couple of thousand years. we’ll figure it out ourselves. The Far East is already learning Chinese. And the Chinese blew us all the wars.

[Octavian avgust]

Quote: sprut

Russia needs to pay more attention to pro-Russian parties in Kazakhstan.

We have one batch and that one is pocket.

[Earthman]

Quote: sprut

Russia needs to pay more attention to pro-Russian parties in Kazakhstan. In every possible way to support. Export Russian language.

Russia would first deal with its parties

[Galinanp]

Marek Rozny (5) US Today, 14:17
Russian conservatives are better off living in Russia. There is no need for a "fifth column" in Kazakhstan [/ i
You have a hypertrophied concept of patriotism. I am a patriot of that country which was surrendered by traitors to the Anglo-Saxons in the 90s and divided into the occupation Gauleiter. I am surprised how you refrained not to insert into the comment the stupid slogan popular now among the Natsiks in Kazazakhstan in relation to the Russians: "suitcase, station, Ryazan."

[Marek Rozny]

1) I have a normal sense of patriotism. This is my country. And I love and know the history of my country. But you don’t know elementary things (or rather you don’t want to know). This is how much you need to be torn from Kazakhstan in order not to know about the hunger of the 30s ??? It’s the same as a Russian citizen who does not know that in Russia there was serfdom or a Pugachev uprising. Temporary worker you. Yes, and with phantom pains. I am proud that I was born in the USSR, lived in the Soviet Union, but I see much more advantages from independence for my people than there are minuses. In the USSR, the Kazakh nation was subjected to forced Russification, it was impossible to get education in their native language. I consider this fact alone to be a criminal manifestation of oppression of the Kazakh people. Imagine if in Kazakhstan your children lose the opportunity to go to kindergarten, school, university with the Russian language of instruction? How do you perceive this? You are the first to start yelling about the genocide, oppression and second-rate of your people. So why do you think that the Kazakhs have no right to resent the excesses of the Soviet era?
2) Unification with the republics of the ex-USSR is necessary and useful. But taking into account all the previous mistakes. I don’t really want to return the dominance of Russian culture over my own, when Moscow forbade us even to choose the alphabet (as now Moscow forbids Tatarstan in the right to change the alphabet Tatar language) Unification should be based on confederation. Each republic must conduct an independent cultural policy. Foreign policy, economics, defense - these are just coordinated actions.
3) The Kazakh never said to a normal Russian person "suitcase, station, Russia". But semi-hidden great power showers hear such phrases regularly. Have you ever wondered why Kazakhs react this way? Maybe it's not the Kazakhs, but you need to take care of yourself? The Kazakhs have no aggression towards the Russians or anyone else. Aggression occurs when you are faced with the malicious ambition and hatred of such shoviks who still cannot accept the fact that Kazakhstan is pursuing its own policy, and is not a "colony" of Russia.
You would have decided - either there or here. Either study your country's history, or really go to Ryazan. And from there write about how you were kicked out by "Kazakh nationalists" and your apartment was taken away by evil unwashed "children of the steppe".

[tm70-71]

Well, you are not the Tatars, you yourself will somehow sort it out without your comments

[Marek Rozny]

What I want, then touch. I will manage without advice. By the way, if the government of Kazakhstan obliges Kazakhstani Russians to write in Latin, will this be considered an infringement of their rights? And why, then, is it normal for Moscow to decide how to write to the Tatars? Are you personally a proponent of double standards?

[tm70-71]

I don’t care what will be introduced in Kazakhstan, the Tatars do not need sympathizers, the Kyrgyz, too, found good deeds, sort things out first

[CAPILATUS]

cool. Marek, in the 30s nobody was sweet, my mother told me that even the kids were forbidden to play on the Volga because they ate children. Then the Great Country was built, and many had to sacrifice. The country that defeated fascism, which really carried genocide. A country that incidentally gave you a free education. It’s not for you to answer the story and the Almighty about what happened and you have no moral right to yell here on the forum about the genocide of the Kazakhs.

When I was in school in Kazakhstan under the USSR, even in our "closed" city there was a Kazakh four times a week and separate Kazakh schools, where anyone could send a child at will. So don't go too far. The only thing was that there was little sense from education in the Kazakh language, since all office work was in Russian. So what else did you expect from a country in which 100% of the industry was built by people whose main language is Russian ?? And all this went to the Kazakhstanis for FREE, and the fifth question is how the legacy left from the "occupation" by the Russians was disposed of.

I haven’t heard this about "suitcase, station, Russia", but to me personally, a piece of wood that came to Kazakhstan from somewhere from Turkmenistan yelled at the table - get out of here! this is my land! I, who was born, grew up and gave the best years of my life to Kazakhstan. Or will you now say that this was the case under the USSR, eh? With all the policy of assimilation that was under the USSR, if someone blurted out such a prelude to a Kazakh, he would be dragged through the KGB

Marek, if you are such a patriot - at least you would change the flag to Kazakhstan, otherwise the USA badge itself and babble about the fifth column. Laughter, and only

[Marek Rozny]

1) It was the Kazakhs who had the worst in the 30s. We have lost half of our strength in TWO years. And how much in percentage terms did other peoples of the USSR lose? And how are these sacrifices related to the victory over Germany? We scared Hitler with these dead, who then just came to power ??? And why do you recall the Soviet school in this vein? Two million dead Kazakhs gave me the opportunity to study? You associate absolutely incomparable things. And can I also say some crap in your style - "You, Kapilatus, were educated only because there was a famine on the Volga. And you have no right to criticize Kazakh taxes, because you lived in Kazakhstan and received a free education."
2) The Kazakh language was not taught anywhere 4 hours a week, and even more so in Russian schools.
On June 4, 1955, the Decree of the Council of Ministers of the Kazakh SSR “On exemption from compulsory learning of the Kazakh language in Russian schools” was issued. In 1958, 75% of Kazakh children attended Kazakh schools; by 1991, only 34% of Kazakhs had the opportunity to attend Kazakh schools. Until the end of the 80s in Alma-Ata there was only ONE Kazakh school - No. 12. Then, by 1991, the second Kazakh school appeared - the 58th. From 1954 to 1986, 546 schools with the Kazakh language of instruction were closed. In all of Kazakhstan there was only one University with the Kazakh language of instruction - ZhenPI. So do not la la about the cloudless Soviet sky over the Kazakh language.
3) Have Russians built industry for us? Not Soviet power? That is, the Russian people themselves woke up early in the morning and thought - should we go to Kazakhstan to build a thread there? It was? Especially during the war years. Knocked on 1942 year at the door of the yurt Vanya Ivanov and smiling broadly said to the Kazakhs: "I have come of my own free will to build you the Guryev oil refinery. We Russians do not need anything, if only you live happily! And I will also build many other factories for you, though they are all miners, and their products will go entirely into the all-Union budget, but you know that in fact, I did you a favor. " Who should thank whom - the Kazakhs of the USSR, or should the USSR be grateful that for 70 years oil, metal, grain, uranium came from the Kazakh SSR? We were the cash cow of the Soviet budget, and we are forced to be grateful ??? Why didn't the "Russian people" build a single factory for the production of electronics, household appliances, and the automobile industry? The economy of the Kazakh SSR was 90% raw and agrarian. And let us every day we Russians on the streets reproach that almost all Kazakh men fought at the front during the Second World War? And let the Russians begin to thank the Kazakhs for the fact that 9 out of 10 bullets during the Second World War were made from Kazakh lead? And let the Russians begin to thank the Kazakhs for the fact that during the Great Patriotic War hundreds of thousands of evacuated Russians received shelter from the Kazakhs? Maybe before asking for gratitude, it would be nice to be grateful yourself? And if it is the "Russian people" who are responsible for the industrialization of the Kazakh SSR, then who is responsible for the famine of the 30s, for repression, for nuclear explosions, for the ruined Aral Sea? Aliens, Jews and the Invisible Man? You, my friend, decide. Otherwise, don't sit on two chairs. Or was it all done by the "Soviet government" or the "Russian people"? In Kazakhstan, it is generally accepted that "Soviet power". Do you think that the "Russian people"? In this case, can I thank you for a free education and knead your face into the blood for my grandfathers? You be careful with the topic of "thanks" and "responsible persons".

[Marek Rozny]

4) All Kazakhs know how the Russians allowed themselves to speak to the Kazakhs. The words ................. were not invented by Kazakhs. And I would also advise you to read the book "Turkestan under the rule of the Soviets" by Mustafa Chokay. It contains the most curious information about the international issue in Kazakhstan in the 20s and 30s from Soviet newspapers. And from the latter, one can recall the statement of one KGB officer in 1986, who said that Kazakh nationalism was born in response to Russian chauvinism. Check out this page. Not a single Kazakh said a single insult to the Russian people. And already several Russians have spoken offensively towards the Kazakhs. How should I react to such people?
There is not a single Kazakh who would not encounter Russian chauvinism in an open form. If the Kazakhs allowed themselves a tenth of what your fellow tribesmen allow, then the Russian Kazakhstanis would have howled from righteous indignation.
Say thank you that Kazakhs do not transfer private to all Russian people.
5) The checkbox does not change here. Already a hundred times here I explained why. I am in Astana. I have no other land. This is Canada for you - your home side. A crisis will break out there, and from there you will also run away complaining about the "ungrateful" Canadians, whom you gave "the best years of your life."

[CAPILATUS]

"Words ................ were not invented by Kazakhs"
------------------
Interesting saying. By and large, I listened to this use of words from Kazakhs to other Kazakhs.
These are the bad Russians - they specially invented derogatory words so that you Kazakhs insult each other!

About "Canadians" and patriotism.
You will be surprised, but in decaying Canada they built what the USSR strove for over 70 years. And here other nations and nationalities are truly respected, and not pretend, as in Kazakhstan. Why did you leave? Maybe because he did not allow anyone to wipe his feet on himself?
As for patriotism, I recommend redirecting this to the Kazakhs, whose children study in America and England, and they remain there

[Earthman]

Quote: CAPILATUS

Interesting saying. By and large, I listened to this use of words from Kazakhs to other Kazakhs.

This is how Kazakhs are called only by Russified Kazakhs, who do not know their history and their language. And now the meaning of "mambet" has departed from the original Soviet meaning, and so even "IVANushki" is called, and any unwashed, untidy and uncultured, implying, if you make not a word translation, but a semantic translation, a person like "Ivan" in Russians

[Marek Rozny]

1) Wah, you are the first Russian who makes an astonished face after hearing these words))) How could I only think that a Russian person is able to call a foreigner a chock or a chummek ...

2) Is Canada a country where foreigners actually live, pushing the indigenous people to the margins of cultural, political and economic life? Ah, yes, now enlightened Canada sometimes gives "candy" so that they do not stick out from their lifeless reservations, in which there are practically no resources. A country for "white people". It is not surprising that you did not like living in KZ, surrounded by Asians, who also tried to wipe their feet on you. How, by the way, did the Kazakhs "try" to do this?

3) The vast majority of Kazakhs who study abroad - return to Kazakhstan. The percentage of defectors usually looks from ... Slavic persons. Che here to fool around?

[CAPILATUS]

As for me to knead my face in blood - everyone on the forum is a la la hero, my phone number in Toronto is 647-242-6055, you’ll call there, we’ll meet, put my face in place if you have enough health, a hero.
About the loud expressions we "this, yes," I will quote the expression of one Kazakh to another, who jumped at me reproaching that I live on his land - "If it were not for the Russians, then I would still graze the cattle under a bai whip." Good luck with the fifth column, patriot radkin

[Marek Rozny]

About "gratitude and face" - it was an abstract proposal, I thought you would understand that if you ascribe to yourself the merits of the Soviet regime, then be so kind as to answer for the excesses of the Soviet regime. Otherwise, sit down on two chairs and juggle concepts.

ZY In the bathhouse: "Abram Moiseevich, you either take off the cross, or put on your panties."
З.З.Ы. And if not for the Jewish revolutionaries, the Russians would not go under the whip of the landowner? In addition, the number of the poor among the Kazakhs before the revolution was negligible in comparison with the Russian people. Read the Russian ethnographers who left a description of the Kazakh life, it is emphasized everywhere that all Kazakhs have practically large herds of cattle, thanks to which they do not experience any special need. There were impoverished Kazakhs who, for one reason or another, were pushed out of their own clans, and they no longer lived among the Kazakhs, but hired themselves to the Russians, receiving the nickname "Jatak". So the whip, if it walked on the back of a Kazakh, it was not a bai, but ... Russian. Among Kazakhs, the role of shepherds was usually played by teenage relatives.

[Earthman]

Quote: CAPILATUS

Then the Great Country was built, and many had to sacrifice. The country that defeated fascism, which really carried genocide. A country that incidentally gave you a free education. It’s not for you to answer the story and the Almighty about what happened and you have no moral right to yell here on the forum about the genocide of the Kazakhs

Dear, you distort the words of Marek. He stated that Kazakhs are the only people who suffered from hunger, he said that the percentage of Kazakh losses in% is terrifying. We never say that we - Kazakhs should be greatly regretted and something like that, we can only say that the steppe has died out or Aktaban Shubyrynda.
What Almighty are you talking about? if you believe in something, then believe that no one will forbid you, but you need not say that all this is due to the will of the Almighty and the silly guilt of real bastards to cover up the WILL of the Most High.
You just recently so romantically wrote about Zhanaozen and let many Russians understand the situation, but now I look at you, you increase everything personal to a global scale, exaggerate, it’s the same as saying that the first Russian drug addict is that all Russia are drug addicts (Moderated by excuse me, I just give him the same comparison as he)

There is no need to blame someone for patriotism, for you can say: NOTHING PERSONAL, ONLY BUSINESS

[ia-ai00]

"In the USSR, the Kazakh nation underwent forced Russification, it was impossible to get an education in their native language. I consider this fact alone a criminal manifestation of the oppression of the Kazakh people."

Well, listen, this is definitely "propaganda" from the Britans and the USA, how the poor indigenous people were "oppressed" here! Indeed, before the "colonization" of Kazakhstan, there were schools, technical schools, universities with instruction in the Kazakh language! But the Russians came, and everything, damn it, was "translated" into Russian. And the poor Kazakhs had to get education in Russian! ... I "sympathize" very much ... I already wrote that, for example, to translate technical literature into Kazakh, even now there are not enough words in the modern Kazakh dictionary, and you have complaints about training before and after the revolution. Your comments are designed to "brainwash" young Kazakhs, who for the most part will not get to the bottom of the truth, but will believe you. No wonder you are under the flag of the USA!

[Earthman]

Quote: ia-ai00

Well, listen, this is definitely "propaganda" from the Britans and the USA, how the poor indigenous people were "oppressed" here!

Happy holiday to you. Well, why do you need this belaberd? whom did you hear enough? conspiracy theories?

[romb]

When you write, do you think?
To read you, it turns out that it’s exactly - the Russians built everything in our Republic of Kazakhstan, and the rest, so, simply went out on the lawn for a walk.
Question:
- How many secondary specialized educational institutions were there on the territory of the Russian Empire?
- do not remind the general level of education of the Russian people (in percentage) during the time of the Russian Empire? I'm talking about real education, and not about those crooked rudiments of a compulsory education system, according to which (in fact), in order to be considered educated, a subject only had to know the basics of the alphabet and be able to count to ten on his fingers. Then take all these figures reflecting "real successes" and compare them with what the Soviet government gave the peoples. Then you will see that, by and large, it was thanks to the USSR that the overwhelming majority of the Russian people emerged from the era of poverty and ignorance.

[ia-ai00]

.... And the overwhelming part of the Kazakh people by this time was already "rich and educated." You say that you could not study in the Kazakh language! So the Russians had to replenish your vocabulary with mathematical, chemical, technical, etc. terms, so that your fathers and grandfathers could learn on their own? Not "bent"? Don't you think that your claims are unfounded? This, excuse me, is EVOLUTION ... first, the representatives of your people were educated in the Russian language, then the opportunity to teach in the Kazakh language appeared! Well, what you are not able to analyze yourself is your problem!
.... and I, it is the USSR that is grateful for everything that I have!

[Marek Rozny]

Do you turn on the fool or what? You have already been told a hundred times that in the Kazakh SSR, Kazakhs were not given the opportunity to receive education in their native language at all. This is called forced Russification of the people. What kind of evolution are you talking about? You either really don't catch up, or you just can't stop like a woman. The Soviet government did not give us education in our native language. Only in Russian. And those who tried to say something against - received the label of a "nationalist" and fell into disgrace, or even in prison, starting with the historian Bekmakhanov and ending with the persecution of Suleimenov. Kazakhs had neither the right to vote nor the right to their own culture. What do you not understand here? The pepper is clear, everything suited the Russians, because they were not infringed upon, but other peoples were forced to Russify. At the same time, now these same high-wai Russians accuse the Kazakhs of nationalism and oppression, although the Kazakhs do not force the Russians to turn into Kazakhs.
Do not make round eyes and do not screech on a topic in which you are not something that you do not understand, you do not want to hear about it stupidly. You only like Russified Kazakhs, you are more comfortable this way. And you are frightened and annoyed by everything connected with Kazakh culture. That is why you scream "propaganda", "propaganda", "lies", "piastres" ...
Z.Y. If you are a woman, this does not mean that you can scratch your tongue as you like.

Lesson of Kazakh literature in a Russian school:
- Ivanov, go to the board and tell about Ibrai Altynsarin, about his primer and about his schools.
- ??? And who is it?
- Ivanov, you do not know who Altynsarin is?
- No idea even.
- Then what books of Gabit Musrepov do you know? Tell about them.
- Ha ... Usrepov? Finally I hear for the first time.
- Ivanov, well, at least tell me any poem by Abai.
- Eeee ... this is such a street.
- Ivanov, how can one live so ignorant in Kazakhstan?
- Kazakhstan? Where is it?

[Marek Rozny]

We were tired of their search for an "American track". You talk nonsense about the past of the Kazakh people, because you don't know a single gram about it. And when they tell you about this, you instantly get into a pose - lies, propaganda, provocation! Instead of rubbish, read sources on this topic. Moreover, Soviet and pre-revolutionary. You can then calm down about the "American agitation".

The main necessary technical literature in Kazakh is. There is all the terminology. There are dictionaries. This literature did not exist just in Soviet times, since there was not ONE HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTION in the Kazakh SSR where they would teach in the Kazakh language (except for the aforementioned Women’s IPP, where teachers of Kazakh schools were trained). It is the fault of the Soviet government that over the years of that era, Kazakhs were not given the opportunity to develop the technical vocabulary of their language. Let us close now for Russian children access to Russian-language education - how do you perceive this? Like an infringement. Why then do you not recognize that the closure of educational institutions in the Kazakh language in Soviet times is an infringement? Double standarts?

And I am not addressing the Kazakhs here, they all know this without me, but the Russian Kazakhs, who, because of their unaltered "resentment" over the loss of their dominant status, still often cause tension in Kazakh society.

As for the flag - go to the Beeline service, you yourself will blink no-no under the star-striped flag.

[Galinanp]

Marek Rozny (5) US Today, 16:25
Listen dear, I was born in Kazakhstan and love this people, because I grew up with Kazakh friends, and in life I have many Kazakh friends, my fighting comrade in the army of Kazakhs. We Russians and Kazakhs are almost identical in mentality. I thought you would calm down during the debate and stop labeling. And you persistently throughout the polemic with incredible tenacity are trying to accuse me of what I did not even suspect myself. This is a Bolshevik style, and now Western apologists. Most ordinary Kazakhs hate such zealous activists. Go to the Kazakhstan sites in the comments reflected this.

[Marek Rozny]

Duc, who was the first to start gluing labels there, Galina? )))) I am from your words - and "Leberal", and "Bolshevik", and "apologist of the West", and "hypertrophied patriot", and "fighter of information war", and "zealous activist"))))) I already confused)))))
You are in no way going to know either the language or the history of Kazakhstan. Therefore, I consider you just a chauvinist who wants all Kazakhs to turn into Russians. It will just be more convenient for you to live like this. And then, you understand, the Kazakhs came up with something unreadable and unpronounceable ... There is no way to praise the Russian people and all their acts in history in human (Russian) language ...
I don't care about America or some other country. Moreover, I regard the United States as a disguised enemy. But now for Kazakhstan, the problem is not the United States, China or Burkina Faso, but fellow citizens who can bring split to our society. The bulk of the talkers and showers (like "washi") left, thank God. Kazakhstan must be monolithic. Not mono-national, but monolithic. If a citizen of Kazakhstan believes that he does not need the history of the country, then what kind of unity can we talk about? I was just killed by your message about "jute". Is this really illiteracy or an attempt to gloss over the "shoals" of the Soviet regime? I do not argue at all about the achievements of Soviet power, but to deny the negative aspects is either a dismissive ignorance of the tragedy of the Kazakh people, or a latent manifestation of "great power" chauvinism.

[Galinanp]

Marek Rozny (5) US Today, 17:33
The split is brought about by your dearest ones. Now, I considered in which field you transferred the conversation, about the study of the Kazakh language. I repeat once again, visit Kazakhstani sites more often. Political scientists, mazhilismen, scientists (Kazakhs are fluent in the Kazakh language) at different times and on different sites. criticized the command-order approach to this, without the presence of a methodological base, the development of intelligible teaching aids, an unfinished terminological base. By the way, from these articles I borrowed this term of this phenomenon "swoop in the Bolshevik style" and "zealous activists", I repent of plagiarism. You will not deny the presence of a huge number of Kazakhs who do not know the Kazakh language, and a large number of them have no desire to study I know him personally, many of this mass. Personally, I sincerely consider this a tragedy. And this is not a desire and not knowledge that stems from an adequate teaching base, for which huge money was allocated, but everything was stolen by officials. And nothing has changed. And one more reason, maybe even the main one, is the contemptuous and aggressive attitude towards them on the part of “zealous activists” (I don’t mean you, I don’t hang labels). As is well known, an action causes a reaction. Almost all Kazakhs who do not speak Kazakh with whom I crossed paths, and I assure a huge number of them, call this the reason. And the "steeper the raids" (the terminology of one of them) will be, the more fundamental their perseverance will be. So that's what I mean, the statement of one of the respected scientists, (not literally, but close to the text) "... we, the Kazakhs, first need to sort out each other in a good way, and then other nationalities, seeing the absence of abuse, hatred, prodding and reproaches ourselves reach for language acquisition ... ".
In my childhood, my parents were friends with families with Kazakh neighbors, so this is how my parents worked. With us Radik, Serik, Marat, me and my brother were nursed by their grandmother, who came from the village, who did not know Russian, so separate Russian words. I still remember the kindness that came from her. She wore everyday national clothes, my mother recalled: "I am going from work, and she took you out for a walk (there was a glade behind our house), she sits on the grass with the hem of her long skirt around her, and you are all like chickens around her." By the way, thank you for bringing up this memory in me today in this discussion, it became warmer in my soul. So that's what I mean, my brother and I remember over time we began to understand that she told us. And she understood us.
This is me about kindness in human relations, and its fruits. Sorry if I made it difficult for my verbosity.

[Marek Rozny]

Galina, how many words I put on. Simply say: "I wanted to talk about your Kazakh history and your language." And there is no need to cover up your contempt for our culture with chatter about Kazakhs, with whom we were friends in childhood. Firstly, as they say, every decent anti-Semite has the usual phrase "I even have one Jewish acquaintance with whom we communicate well", and secondly, this memory is suspiciously similar to the fact that as an adult, you did not have Kazakh friends.
For Kazakhs, the famine of the 30s is a very sensitive topic. And you knocked me out with your ignorance of this topic. Although this topic is not hushed up. From the high bell tower you wanted to spit on everything related to the Kazakhs. You are a temporary worker. You will escape at the first serious crisis, let alone war. .... do you need such a "Kazakhstani"? You can sell Kazakhs for five kopecks and don't hiccup. And you will also blame the Kazakhs for this. Like "vaska" or "vasilenko". And bush gundos in a couple of years here at the forum with a Russian (or rather a Canadian or really American) flag, telling how ungrateful and two-faced Kazakhs are. That's it, Galina, you have redeemed.

[Galinanp]

Marek Rozny (5) US Yesterday, 22:33 PM
In the history of Kazakhstan in the first half of the twentieth century, there were two major famines. The first - in 1921-1922, associated with the general major famine in the RSFSR after the drought. The second in 1932-1933. If a certain literature has appeared about the second, destructive famine, and there is more and more information about it, then the famine in Kazakhstan immediately after the Civil War is very little known and was practically not mentioned in the literature. Great attention was drawn to the terrible famine of 1921 in the Volga region and in the Ukraine, to combat which all the forces of the RSFSR and international assistance were rushed. But practically nothing significant was reported about the famine in Kazakhstan. If the famine of 1932 could be investigated through the recollections of eyewitnesses or their children, then eyewitnesses of an earlier famine died long before researchers appeared who wanted to understand this issue. For some reason, when we talk about famine in the steppe, we immediately mean the famine of the 30s. But in Kazakhstan it was the second famine. The first was in 1919-1922. Therefore, when researchers deal with this problem, they must divide it into the first and second periods, - says Valery Mikhailov, author of the book "Chronicle of the Great Jute", which tells about the famine of 1932. In 1921, the decline in agriculture continued. According to the Central Committee of Pomgol, the number of livestock fell to 6,2 million heads, and the sown area to 3,04 million hectares [8]. The disappearance of another 3,5 million head of livestock and the reduction of crops by 200 thousand hectares in itself created an extremely tense food situation, which the drought of the summer of 1921 turned into an economic disaster. Other social assistance was provided to those suffering from hunger. So, in 1921-1922, 58 thousand people were evacuated to the Turkestan SSR, Siberia and the Central regions of the RSFSR. Also, 425 orphanages and orphanages were opened, which received 225 thousand children. Other social assistance was provided to those suffering from hunger. So, in 1921-1922, 58 thousand people were evacuated to the Turkestan SSR, Siberia and the Central regions of the RSFSR. Also, 425 orphanages and orphanages were opened, which received 225 thousand children.
During the famine of 1932-1933, no food aid was provided to the starving. Numerous telegrams and requests for help were not considered, and nothing was even remotely similar to the food network of the previous hunger, and no ration was given out for starving people. In 1932, shelters were created for orphans, but even in them food supply, living conditions and medical care were extremely poor.
In the old textbooks "History of the Kaz SSR" on which we studied, we talked about this first famine, about the second 1932-33 only a mention that "the famine was repeated."

[Marek Rozny]

Wow, progress! You have already begun to read and quote something on this topic. You look, once again we fight a few times and find a common language)

Now on the topic. The famine of the 20s and did not stand next to the hunger of the 30s. Its consequences were so terrifying that Stalin simply canceled the results of the census and classified them. This is a historical fact. After that, other numbers were given to the people, but even they showed a significant decrease in the Kazakh population. There was simply no similar famine in the USSR. Even in the Volga region and Ukraine, a much larger percentage of the population survived.

In addition, the famine of the 20s was widely known, because then there was still no system of total control of information, in general, there was still a civil war. So with all the desire VKPb could not drown out this topic. Moreover, a lot of foreign journalists were then in Russia. In the 30s, the situation was radically different.

And I say it again, the cause of the Kazakh Holodomor is not jute, but the order of the first head of the republic, Goloshchekin, who ordered to confiscate practically all the cattle from the Kazakhs. The Kazakhs could not even offer resistance, because there was not a single armed detachment of the Red Army, consisting of Kazakhs (except for a separate Kazakh territorial cavalry regiment, which in 1933 was removed from the command of the KazASSR Military Commissariat and subordinated to the command of the SAVO). The Kazakhs did not serve anywhere else at that time. The Kazakhs had neither guns nor sabers - all of this was previously confiscated after the civil war. Without the ability to resist, without the ability to hide livestock and meat, the Kazakhs were literally left with nothing. And the results are known: out of 4 million Kazakhs, 1 million Kazakhs died of hunger, more than half a million fled from the country to China, Afghanistan and Iran. Considering that about 20 million Kazakhs died of hunger in the 30s, the blow to the Kazakh nation was simply gigantic. And if you add the massive repressions in the late XNUMXs, when almost every Kazakh was declared a former bai (they remembered the herds that the Kazakhs had before the revolution) and a lot of them were shot, I'm not talking about the Kazakh intelligentsia, which at one time supported Alash-Orda - it was completely exterminated. Plus the almost total mobilization of Kazakh men. KazSSR had, if I am not mistaken, the highest percentage of mobilized people. Only women and children really remained in the republic. The Kazakhs did not have any "armor", and important posts were transferred to the evacuees. Even Republican ministers went to the front as commissars for national divisions.
Of course, the fact that the Kazakhs fought during this war cannot be called an exaggeration of Soviet power, but coupled with the losses of the 20-30s, the Kazakh nation really found itself on the verge of existence. And if we take into account the millions of people evacuated to Kazakhstan, deported ethnic groups and migrant workers of virgin lands and Komsomol construction projects, then one must still be surprised how the Kazakhs did not dissolve as a nation at all. And now here some people talk about the "goodies" of the Soviet era. Yes, there were nishtyaks, but it was also criminal to keep silent, try to refute or retouch the tragedies of the Kazakh people of that time.
Kazakhs do not demand "repentance" or "pity". All we need is for the Russians not to ascribe to themselves the achievements of the Soviet regime, and at the same time deny the mistakes of the Soviet regime. Then there will be no such curses.
Well, the fact that Russian Kazakhstanis (unlike Germans, Uyghurs, Koreans) are almost hostile to the Kazakh language and culture - also can not cause irritation among the Kazakhs. Why does a German who speaks Kazakh not surprise me, and a Russian who speaks Kazakh looks like a curiosity? Germans are more capable of languages? Or is everything much simpler?

[Galinanp]

Marek Rozny (5) US Yesterday, 22:33 PM
The checkbox is really American.

[Focuser]

Damn, you are with Olga (ia-ai00) relatives or what? Or the same face? Here they have already written several times that a person from Kazakhstan, just Beeline, gives out an Amer IP. Scroll through the comments Marek Rozny:
http://topwar.ru/index.php?cstart=14&do=lastcomments&userid=34629#comment
he has a day, or even during the day, the flag changes from ours to Amersky! Could he fly so fast between continents?

[Marek Rozny]

Foker, thank you once again for writing about the technical problem associated with the work of the provider. People are simply convinced that I am an American agent, because in addition to the achievements of the Soviet regime, I am trying to say about the mistakes of that era. Therefore, caught on the flag, which, incidentally, is again sky-blue)

[Earthman]

Quote: GalinaNP

Listen dear, I was born in Kazakhstan and love this people, because I grew up with Kazakh friends, and in life I have many Kazakh friends, my fighting comrade in the army of Kazakhs. We Russians and Kazakhs are almost identical in mentality. I thought you would calm down during the debate and stop labeling. And you persistently throughout the polemic with incredible tenacity are trying to accuse me of what I did not even suspect myself. This is a Bolshevik style, and now Western apologists. Most ordinary Kazakhs hate such zealous activists. Go to the Kazakhstan sites in the comments reflected this.

Dear, you somehow started for one thing, and now you want to close the topic to others

[Galinanp]

Earthman KZ Today, 17:39
No, my opponent took it to this.

[Nomad]

Quote from spok

but what about the Russian genocide in these republics that everyone forgot? I have friends who talked about rather terrible things happening in these parts in relation to the Russian-speaking population

Oh my god, well, when will this nonsense finally become obsolete !!! ???

Quote: Marek Rozny

Even the Chukchi fought for 200 years with the Russians, who sought to seize their territory

By the way, the outcome of the confrontation was decided not by weapons, but by vodka. So the Chukchi, undefeated by force of arms, turned out to be completely defenseless against alcohol.

Quote: GalinaNP

12:50. You "historical knowledge" picked up from mukalatura "national foda of democracy" of the USA

Galina NP, and you obviously never even read the waste paper.

[Marek Rozny]

Yeah, I know about vodka. spoiled them.

[Nomad]

Quote: ia-ai00

Do you know better from America? Although Vasya does not know the new names of cities, he correctly described everything! I, too, living from birth in Kazakhstan, I can’t remember the new names of the streets, since they are not associated with anyone, Kazakh employees also do not know for the most part who the person was, in whose honor they renamed this or that street.

If you have problems with memory, this does not mean that everything in the country is as bad as this Vasya describes. For me, both of you are just \\\\\\\ provocateurs, that's all. It’s not even a fact that you live in Kazakhstan.

[Galinanp]

Nomad (1) KZ Today, 19:26
During this controversy, nostalgia came over me. In Soviet times, almost every apartment had a speaker, a wired receiver was popularly called a "bunk". A local radio station was broadcast on it. As a child, I remember it did not turn off in our house, for a long time the songs-improvisations of akyns were broadcast, they still sound in my subconscious, but the songs and melodies of "Dosmukasan" also stuck in my memory. I remember all this with great fondness. their sound. but now listening to a competition of singers-improvisers. and the most modern "Dosmukasan" I feel a huge difference. I thought it was me because of my army absence at home, my sense of perception got confused, and I asked, even bored my friends and acquaintances Kazakhs about it, but they shrugged their shoulders who agreed, who brought some kind of duty version. But thank God, all the bewilderment was resolved with one aksakal. He told me: "You are not deceived, this is because before people were purer in soul, kinder, and the song and kui come from the soul." So we need to go forward, not look back, but look back, not break away from our roots. By the way, in the plans of the amerikosov (and here they are for me enemies) in the unleashed expansion of the propaganda of their fucking western values, to exterminate national identity from the peoples. So that I fell upon my opponent Marek Rozny. Seeing their adept in his rhetoric, maybe the American flag provoked me. So we need to look back at our ancestors, at the purity and kindness of their souls, and in its strength strives to resemble this of their purity and kindness. And then. I think there will be no such misunderstandings and suspicions in each other of something contrary to us.

[Marek Rozny]

Ehhh, how rotten out of you is ... "What Kazakhs used to be - loveliness, not people! And not a single decent Kazakh was left, and they have songs like hell .... e".

[Galinanp]

Marek Rozny (5) US Yesterday, 22:38 PM
Listen, you think out for me, indicate the place where I said it. As for the song and music, now, I practically cannot find my favorite songs of 60-70 in the old performance of the Soviet period, what now sounds even performed by the same performers is NOT THAT. This applies to everything in general, but about the old songs "Dosmukasan" - Kudasha, Ahau Bikem, Ayaulym, wedding and so on. , and the improvisations of akyns are one of that kind. And you are everywhere looking for a national motive. All the conversation with you is over, you are still hated.

[Marek Rozny]

1) And what is there to think over. If you remove the husk, then the conclusion is exactly the same as I wrote above. Like, earlier the Kazakhs were nyashki, and now they are moral hoopoes, and therefore they no longer have normal songs.
2) In general, the very first Kazakh songs that appeared on the Internet were exactly the songs of Dos-Mukasan in the records of old years. I found them back in 1996-1997 on the net. It's amazing if you haven't found anything. Like a gritsa, Google will help you. And now you can even find and download the Kazakh stage of the 30s.

[CAPILATUS]

Sorry to "harness".
I think it’s not necessary to get personal without seeing and not knowing each other. Perhaps at some other time and other place you guys would be best friends.

About "rot", "good" and "bad" Kazakhs and so on. It's no secret that every nation has its own "black sheep". And it is far from being a secret that nationalism is rushing from the Kazakh marginal layers. You will never hear this from the Kazakh intelligentsia. From rags, but to riches, never led to anything good. I just really want to wish my first homeland to prosper and do not let the marginalized dark uneducated people take over - this has never led to anything good. There is no need to look far for examples - Russia was ruled by the marginalized after the 1917 Revolution. At first everything was destroyed, and then they suffered to restore ...

Good luck to everyone and be more tolerant of each other!

[Marek Rozny]

I don't need people who don't respect my culture as friends. And from Kazakhs nationalism does not rush at all. And when a person, bruised by phantom pains and wounded by the fact that now his nation is not the main one in Kazakhstan, smacks a fever, then even an aul boy, even a professor of music academy rears up against him. Let them learn to follow the language, I'm not even talking about respecting our culture. Then not a single Kazakh will look askance. And then they made of us "traitors", "ungrateful", "nationalists" and "oppressors". And what is characteristic, the Germans, Koreans, Uzbeks and Chechens do not consider Kazakhs to be nationalists at all. But some Russians, after provoking a conflict themselves, take offense at the Kazakhs. And others also defend all sorts of "washes" who here openly call Muslims homosexuals.

[GOLUBENKO]

But not all Kyrgyz are happy. It would seem that here both construction, and the creation of jobs, and the "maintenance", and the cancellation of a huge debt ... No, other Kyrgyz gentlemen were afraid that they would fall under the heel of Moscow.

Which one is more pleasant for them? Under Beijing or Kabul? It looks like the local “tulip” rations from the US Ambassador to Kyrgyzstan are being worked off. And so they sit with their bare ass and bend their fingers, idiots.

[tm70-71]

You filter the market, if you’re not in the subject, then push smartness back into your brain

[Marek Rozny]

Golubenko, all your posts about Central Asian countries and their citizens are characterized by pathological snobbery and arrogance. This is called chauvinism.

[GOLUBENKO]

Recently, the pan-Turkic vector of Kazakhstan’s foreign policy has intensified

Fools, they will turn their ass to Russia, the USA and NATO will come and find that there is “no democracy” in Kazakhstan and it will be like with Libya and Syria. They themselves run into chaos.

[ia-ai00]

Gaddafi and Nazarbayev have the same advisor - TONY blair - Britan ..., he "helped" Libya, will help Kazakhstan too ...

[Earthman]

Quote: ia-ai00

Gaddafi and Nazarbayev have the same advisor - TONY blair - Britan ..., he "helped" Libya, will help Kazakhstan too ...

Well, the most original presentation to Nazarbayev N.A.
There were so many such screams, the Russian forum members were already tired of talking like that, and our SCREAMERS just started making noise.

And the main thing is that no one knows what happened in Libya and with Gadafi, and I categorically refuse to believe the Russian and Western media - this is an axiom.

You, dear one, in my opinion, are a supporter of conspiracy theories and conspiracies that people flew in from somewhere.
Don't you watch RenTV?

[Focuser]

Olga, why so much anger?

[Marek Rozny]

Tony Blair does not give advice to Kazakhs on how to live and govern their country. Blair is hired to lobby for Kazakhstan's interests in the Western world. In addition to the former British prime minister, the Kazakhs bought a bunch of American senators and owners of the main newspapers there, who regularly promote Kazakhstan.
By the way, what country does Gerhard Schröder receive money from? Remind me?

[Circle]

Do you seriously think that this representative of the Western elite can be hired like this? And not formally (like Schroeder) to an energy company (everyone loves money). Just an advisor. Gaddafi also thought that he hired Blair... But here, of course, everything will be different.

Its functions are quite vague for me. And they are more reminiscent of a “watcher/spreader” from a certain wing of an influential world group. And the duplicity of the Anglo-Saxons in politics is widely known. This is not Hugo Chavez, who was so friendly. He was at enmity, he was at enmity. "England... has only permanent interests." And judging by the fact that our, as well as Russian, “refugees” are holed up in London - these interests least do not always coincide with the interests of Kazakhstan.

[Marek Rozny]

Why did they suddenly take Schroeder on a formal basis???
And let me remind you that from the first days Kazakhstan hired foreign advisers on a variety of issues.
We need Blair in order to crush Ablyazov in Britain and prevent him from taking political “roots” there. The British grandma worked on this issue.

[Circle]

Schroeder is paid decent money at the energy company for a completely different job that you mentioned - promoting Russian interests in Europe. There is a reason, a screen to justify the generous payment for these services.

But Blair is not German, French or anything else - he is English. Read his biography if you wish. Then you will easily understand who he represents in the country. And is it easy to refuse the offer of these people; not only Kazakhstan. But also to such states as Russia and China.

As a small example, a very long and complex story that found its resolution in this way. But here you need to delve into it if you are unfamiliar. On this occasion, there was even a subtle (as usual in such cases) reaction from the Kremlin - we don’t object. Briefly: people like Blair don't get jobs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/business/2012/10/121001_aar_rotschild_british_petro
leum.shtml

[Smoke]

I don’t know, this Marek is some kind of stubborn.... he spun a bunch of all sorts of junta about how the Russians humiliated, colonized and starved the unfortunate Kazakhs..))) But at the same time they want to be in an alliance with these terrible and evil Russians..... Marek answer to ONE question: who needs whom more?? Kazakhstan to Russia or Russia to Kazakhstan? Only honestly and without any junta about the friendship of peoples and mutually beneficial cooperation.
I believe that Russia is capable of feeding and protecting itself and everything will be fine with us..... RUSSIA WILL SURVIVE. But in the case of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and other Stans, and in the case of Ukraine, everything looks very different. They will devour you without Russia, is it clear?
So what the hell can there be EQUALITY? We don’t fucking need you))) The only factor why Russia is still somehow coddling Kazakhstan is the still large diaspora of our people in Kazakhstan, as soon as the last Russian leaves KZ you will be 3.14. And you know this, otherwise you wouldn’t splash here foam: life is good here for Russians!!
Choose the lesser of 2 evils: bend to Moscow and at least survive as a nation, or you will become Chinese, that’s the whole deal.
Therefore, put your pseudo-historical calculations in one place and go collect signatures for changing the status of the Russian language in Kazakhstan from interethnic to state, if you really want to BE FRIENDS. And remember! Russians are an INDIGENOUS PEOPLE in Kazakhstan. The fact that the Kipchaks roamed somewhere doesn’t mean anything! Gypsies also roamed all over the world, understand? Let's call the whole world Gypsy Stan? And it was the Russians who created Kazakhstan 99.99%. So whose land is this we’re still going to see, understand?

[Earthman]

Quote: Smoke

he spun a bunch of all sorts of junta about how the Russians humiliated, colonized and starved the unfortunate Kazakhs..))

But this didn’t happen, don’t play with expressions, calm down and continue to sit in the den and don’t know anything, or rather, know everything from the Russian press, which in the 2008 war managed to release a film about the war in a month, I was already in shock. in August the war and in September they showed a feature film to all of Russia on Channel One, oh, how bad the Georgians were there

Quote: Smoke

They will devour you without Russia, is it clear?

Well, where did they gobble up the respected Emperian and?

Quote: Smoke

So what the hell can there be EQUALITY? We don't fucking need you)))

this is your opinion, bear, and Putin is already planning the European Union parliament without the knowledge of Kazakhstan, I’m thinking, maybe this is some kind of disease, that’s how you flatter you, you immediately want to grab your hand, and in your government too, that’s how Ukraine is being corrected and instead in order to make friends bam your imperial habits, the era of empire is over a long time ago. Do you see what is happening to the USA? this also concerns you with such habits and they will leave you from the federation, don’t think about how to annex Kazakhstan, you think about how to save Russia from decay, with your habits

[Earthman]

Quote: Smoke

The only factor why Russia is still somehow coddling Kazakhstan is the still large diaspora of our people in Kazakhstan, as soon as the last Russian leaves KZ you will be 3.14. And you know this, otherwise you wouldn’t be spraying foam here: Russians live well here! !

Then Russia will never attack Kazakhstan, because the Russians of Kazakhstan are happy and they will never leave for Russia to become poorer.
In general, what area are you from and what do you do? In short, when was the last time you left your den? You are a pathetic Emperian and there is no need to complain, be a man and think about yourself and your head and do not disgrace great Russia.
You don’t even know your own history, keep quiet and don’t tell the history of your neighbors, you are an illiterate disgrace.

Quote: Smoke

Therefore, put your pseudo-historical calculations in one place and go collect signatures for changing the status of the Russian language in Kazakhstan from interethnic to state, if you really want to BE FRIENDS.

If the United States wants to be friends, China wants to be friends, then let them do a favor and make the Russian language the status of the state language, right? Well, then I think why the Caucasus is complaining, it means they didn’t want Russian as a state language, right?

Quote: Smoke

And remember! Russians are an INDIGENOUS PEOPLE in Kazakhstan. The fact that the Kipchaks roamed somewhere doesn’t mean anything! Gypsies also roamed all over the world, understand? Let's call the whole world Gypsy Stan? And it was the Russians who created Kazakhstan 99.99%. So whose land is this we’re still going to see, understand?

DO NOT be a disgrace, emperian, go take a fifth grade course and fix your head.. Don’t complain, be a man and correct yourself, and generally do yourself a favor to disappear in posts with STANS. Stay in posts about Empire

[Marek Rozny]

And Smoke is a candidate for medical school. He even thinks that he taught the Kazakhs to defecate, which he wrote about here on the website. And he’s even proud of it. Full clinic. Don't pay too much attention to this poor guy. You need to argue with sane opponents, but it is generally useless to argue with complete idiots; you will sink to their level, where they will extinguish you with their experience. I have already been banned 5 times by the admins for responding to this deranged, illiterate semi-fascist and his brown comrades.

[Smoke]

Quote: Earthman

If the United States wants to be friends, China wants to be friends, then let them do a favor and make the Russian language the status of the state language, right?

In the countries you listed above, there are not such a large number of Russians. Neither the USA nor China have invested such colossal resources of knowledge and labor of Russians as in Kazakhstan.
In Belarus (country of the Customs Union), Russian is the state language along with Belarusian. No one there is shouting about the infringement of the Belarusian language by the dominance of the Russians and the colonialist policy of Moscow))

[Marek Rozny]

Make Tajik and Azerbaijani the official language in some regions of Russia.
And they took out much more from Kazakhstan than they invested. So get over your "debts". There is not enough money to pay for the “balance” of the Kazakh SSR.

[Smoke]

I wonder how you imagine this?) give some language the status of a state language in the REGION?)) From this phrase alone I can already draw a conclusion about your quality of education - sorry, but you’re nulina))) In the national republics (Tatarstan, Sakha Buryatia, Tuva etc.) there is legal bilingualism, everything is fine there)
And as for debts... we will get ours back, don’t worry)

[Lopatov]

Quote: Marek Rozny

There is not enough money to pay for the “balance” of the Kazakh SSR

This is still a big question: who won’t have enough? Considering the permanent presence of the RSFSR as a donor

[Marek Rozny]

It's not even a question of who was the donor or recipient. The KazSSR is a donor republic of the Soviet budget. Moreover, the importance of Kazakhstan was so great that the bulk of the republic’s enterprises were of all-Union significance and they were subordinate not to the republican line ministries, but directly to the union ones.
By the way, oil production in KZ began much earlier than on the territory of the RSFSR.

[Semyon Albertovich]

We need MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL friendship and neighborhood. It is very easy to quarrel; nationalists of any nationality have been doing this with success for many centuries.

[Nomad]

Quote: Marek Rozny

And Smoke is a candidate for medical school. He even thinks that he taught the Kazakhs to defecate, which he wrote about here on the website. And he’s even proud of it. Full clinic. Don't pay too much attention to this poor guy. You need to argue with sane opponents, but it is generally useless to argue with complete idiots; you will sink to their level, where they will extinguish you with their experience. I have already been banned 5 times by the admins for responding to this deranged, illiterate semi-fascist and his brown comrades.

Exactly, Smoke is actually some kind of pathology. Here even such a diagnosis as a bruise of the imperial consciousness does not work, because in this case there is no trace of any consciousness.

[vvs sf]

Good evening everyone! I would like to clarify some questions that came up during the discussion of the article. I lived in Kazakhstan, more precisely in Chimkent, from 1968 to 1970, from 1975 to 1983 constantly, until 2001 I came on vacation every year, most recently I visited Chimkent in September 2012. So, I think I have the right to express some thoughts. Regarding the impossibility of Kazakhs during the USSR to receive education in their native language, it is complete nonsense. In all universities, technical schools (I don’t know vocational schools) there were groups in their native language, there were completely Kazakh schools, there was an Uzbek school in Chimkent. Another question is that the Kazakhs themselves did not want to study in such schools and groups, so in Russian schools there were 30-35 students in classes, in Kazakh schools no more than 20. Most advanced Kazakhs tried to send their children study at universities in Russia, believing that they teach better there, which was generally true. The question is about not oppressing Russians after the collapse of the Union. Another lie - they were oppressed and how, by the way, at the same time, everyday nationalism blossomed in full bloom, in its own way I trusted my father at his word all his life. In production, the Russian boss was offered to become a deputy to the newly appointed boss, a Kazakh of course, or to quit, which many did. Hence the large outflow of qualified personnel to Russia. Ten years later they came to their senses, but it was already too late, production was killed. Under the Union in Shymkent there were, you can see, lead, cement, phosphorus, oil refining, forging and pressing equipment factories and many light industry enterprises. Now there is practically nothing, specifically phosphorus was razed to the ground, forging and pressing equipment too , one workshop operates in lead. So, in almost all industries. What was pleasing is that although almost all the streets have been renamed, the stops are announced both under the Union and in Russian, signs are almost everywhere in two languages, although paperwork is only in Kazakh. But this issue is completely I support those who say that since you still have to learn the language. My sister needed it for work, she learned it. And under the Union, the Kazakhs themselves did not know their language, but the Russians have nothing to do with it. But in general, I can say that Russia will survive alone, but Kazakhstan, with all due respect, is unlikely. And if anyone needs integration first of all, it is Kazakhstan. I am neither a Russophobe nor a Russophile. I believe that every nation has both good and bad. I am a former military man, the son military man, born in Uzbekistan, lived in Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Poland, Russia, so I can safely say that my friends are people of many nationalities

[Marek Rozny]

1) 1960. In the Kazakh SSR there are 3123 Kazakh schools.
1970 - 2577.
1989 - 2613 (Russian schools - 4547).
At the same time, the number of Kazakhs, of course, grew. Regarding the nonsense that it was easy to enter a Kazakh school, don’t even tell the Kazakhs. In the villages it was a little simpler, but in the cities it was complete chaos. The Kazakh school was usually associated with the aulnaya, since the bulk of the Kazakh schools were usually located there. And, of course, the level of these schools was low, but not lower than the level of rural Russian schools. However, a graduate of a Russian school could easily go on to study at a university, but a Kazakh graduate of a Kazakh school found it very difficult to enter a university because of the language.

And now let’s turn to Soviet documents - “Resolution of the Council of Ministers of the Kazakh SSR dated August 15, 1989 N 247 “On additional measures to implement the resolution of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan and the Council of Ministers of the Kazakh SSR dated March 3, 1987 N 98” On improving the study of the Kazakh language in the republic":
"...The tendency that has developed in the past to limit the scope of use of the Kazakh language is being overcome especially poorly. Ministries and departments, executive committees of local Soviets are not sufficiently addressing issues of improving language culture, do not take specific measures aimed at the widespread conduct of office work in the Kazakh language, the introduction of simultaneous translation and etc. in the republic there is still not a single secondary specialized educational institution, and in many universities there are no faculties, departments or groups with Kazakh language of instruction...
Chairman
Council of Ministers of the Kazakh SSR
Manager
Council of Ministers of the Kazakh SSR"

Do you know something about teaching in the Kazakh language more than the government of the Kazakh SSR once did? Tell me, I’m ready to listen carefully.

2) Tell us how you were oppressed in Kazakhstan.
3) Can you call the situation when Russians were appointed as the first leaders (including the general head of the Kazakh SSR), and Kazakhs were put in place of deputies - an infringement, or is this normal? Were the Kazakhs really so stupid before 1991 that you can still count the major Kazakh officials of socialist Kazakhstan on one hand?
4) Okay, let’s assume that when a Soviet-built plant closes in KZ, it’s the stupid, hand-assed Kazakhs’ fault. And when a Soviet-era plant closes in Russia, who is to blame? Jews and aliens?
5) Moscow limited access to education in the Kazakh language, but “the Russian people are not to blame”? I'm not against this wording. Only then add that the fact that factories were built in the Kazakh SSR has nothing to do with the Russians either. Let us then attribute everything to the actions of the Soviet government, and not snatch certain moments in our favor, while at the same time renouncing other negative achievements.
6) Kazakhstan, in general, has not depended on Russia for these 20 years, and has not gone to hell.

[Smoke]

Marek, didn’t the elementary thought occur to you that there were simply no teachers who spoke the Kazakh language? Excuse me, they taught it as best they could... in Russian. And the Kazakh parents themselves tried to assign their children to Russian teachers, because the level of knowledge their children received was incomparably greater. No one SPECIFICALLY infringed upon you in any way, but the problem of teaching in your native language, as can be seen from the documents that you cited, no one kept silent about, what they could and did based on current capabilities.

[Marek Rozny]

In your feeblemindedness magnificent mind, it turns out that the Soviet educational system was not able to prepare a national cadre of teachers in 70 years? How's your logic, toilet teacher?

[Earthman]

Quote: Marek Rozny

for 70 years the national cadre of teachers? How's your logic, toilet teacher?

For 70 years, the Soviet government was unable to build a metro in Almaty.

[Smoke]

wow, how much bile))) let’s burn some more - you’re on your way to success) Did you think it was so simple once and with the wave of a magic wand, good teachers who speak the Kazakh language will appear in the Kazakh SSR?)) This is a long process - more than a century will pass before you have your own a national school of education will take shape. Kazakhstan has been independent and sovereign for 20-odd years, but things are still there.... in the republic you can probably count the normal teachers of Kazakh nationality on one hand. I live in Tomsk, so you can’t even imagine how many Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uzbek students there are - you still go to study with Russian teachers....are we also to blame for this? Well, those who are richer send their children to the rear cordon.

[Marek Rozny]

Smokey, all that was needed was to make independent decisions. In Kazakhstan, there is now no problem with getting an education (and not such a bad one, by the way, since at international Olympiads Kazakh schoolchildren tear Europeans apart like a hot water bottle) in THEIR OWN language.
So go and cry in the corner because the Kazakhs have established a system of national education in their country, which the Soviet Union, well, could not create... And just look at how the Kazakhs write here, and how the Russians write here. And this despite the fact that Kazakhs can also write in Kazakh. And increasingly in foreign languages. While you are kneading guano in your mortar, the caravan moves on.
Tomsk is an honored educational center. It's a pity that this didn't affect your level at all.

[Smoke]

Heh, Kazakh hamsters downvoted my posts, but NONE of them answered my question: who needs whom more? Russia to Kazakhstan or vice versa. In general, it’s in the spirit of the local Kazakh (not Kazakhstan) Hamsters to show off, and when you start asking them simple and logical questions, then the knight’s move follows: People don’t listen to him! this Smoke is a fascist (nationalist, sick, etc., underline as necessary) it is impossible to have a conversation with him, because he does not support the course of our Nazarbai and generally criticizes Kazakhstan...)))
I am not a fascist or a chauvinist. But yes, I’ll repeat the Kazakh hamsters especially for you (Marek has already remembered, well done, now it’s up to the rest): The Russian people weaned the Kazakhs from WRITING AGAINST THE WIND. In order to be convinced of this, you Kazakhs just need to look at your oralmans. This is who you would be at the moment if the Russians had not built you FREE schools, hospitals, apartments, universities. The Kazakhs themselves are semi-contemptuous of the “returnees” Kazakhs from Mongolia, China, Afghanistan, these oralmans there in Kazakhstan are registered as animals in the Red Book)))
And your grandfathers and great-grandfathers understood this and were really friends with the Russian people, but your generation fucked up this FRIENDSHIP! You betrayed your grandfathers.

[OTAKE]

LOL dude, cool down, did you personally teach the Kazakhs how to write in the wind? Tell us better about your achievements, brag

[Beck]

Quote: Smoke

And your grandfathers and great-grandfathers understood this and were really friends with the Russian people, but your generation fucked up this FRIENDSHIP! You betrayed your grandfathers.

It's you who screwed up everything on a personal level. I drove myself into I wouldn’t be surprised if you wear a symbiosis of an Orthodox cross and a fascist swastika on your shoulder and give a greeting in a Hitlerite gesture. It was only from people like you that it was born in Russia skinhead movement, the only one in the entire CIS. No other people of the former USSR allowed themselves to do this - to beat and kill people only because they were of a different nationality. But skinheads are not Russian people, they are rabble like you. The Russian people built a Great State, and if they had skinhead inclinations, they would not have built such a state.

For history, 200 years is not a long time. Remember how Laptez Rus' was taught, under Peter, by the Germans and the Dutch from Kukui. And the German Catherine gathered a large number of learned Europeans to Russia. And I don’t consider this something shameful; Russia introduced its original civilization to the civilization of enlightenment. 200 years later, exactly the same thing happened again. And what to look down on now.

There are stupid skinheads, they can’t put together a few words. You're babbling something, which means you've been converted. Converted into an arc, man you won't be anymore.

[Smoke]

the fascist cross actually suits you better, not me))
No other people of the former USSR allowed themselves to do this - to beat and kill people only because they were of a different nationality. Bek,
Beck, it turns out you are a completely hypocritical ointment

[Beck]

Quote: Smoke

Beck, it turns out you are a completely hypocritical ointment

Well, that's your personal opinion. And why are you faking it? Why didn’t you quote the previous and subsequent sentences of my comment? By doing this you want to put me in a negative light. So this is a skinhead technique. If anyone reads this squabble of ours, please read my top comment in full.

And what you personally wanted, you personally. You are not a representative of the Russian people; you are, if not physically, then spiritually, a skinhead. What do you want if you teach Kazakhs how to piss. What did you think someone would pat on the head? They will pat you on the head with a board and pinch the head in a vice. And calling names is a sign that you have nothing to say.

And Russian public opinion itself was shocked by its skinheads. And pressed them to the nail. As evidenced by the trials of thugs.

And further. Call me what you want, just don’t address me, it will be a lot of honor for you.

[Kaa]

Quote: Beck

Beck

Quote: Smoke

Smoke

That's it, break, sort things out in a private message - mutual insults...

[Beck]

Quote: Kaa

That's it, break, sort things out in a private message - mutual insults...

I don't need any PMs. I have said everything. I have nothing to talk about with Smoke now.

[Earthman]

Quote: Beck

I don't need any PMs. I said everything. I have nothing to talk about with Smoke now.

Early in the morning I asked the administration to take measures to remove Smoke from the site, apparently the moderators here all like this kind of judgment and comments from Smoke, they are just openly afraid to admit that in their hearts there are also such Emperians and Nationalists among them and therefore do not delete his posts.

I’m willing to bet that the first time I offend the feelings of Russians, I will be removed from the site without explanation. And where are our friends who want to build the Eurasian Union on equal terms and equal rights?

It’s okay if Smoke insulted him just once, but he has already insulted him +100500 times, which directly proves his fierce hatred of Kazakhstan, and measures to remove him have not been taken or even comments are not deleted.

Instead of sitting and cleaning out his comms every time, isn’t it easier to ban him forever?

[Marek Rozny]

Admins ban all Kazakhs who get into a fight with the Smokeys. The smokes themselves are not touched. All the Kazakhs are banned here solely because they respond to these Nazis. Without exception.

[Smoke]

I’m writing the TRUTH, which hurts your eyes, that’s all.
I believe that in Kazakhstan Russian should be the state language.
I believe that the territory of Kazakhstan proper is Chimkent Dzhambul and Kzyl Orda. The remaining territories are ORIGINALLY Russian and ORIGINALLY Kazakh territories belonging to both peoples. The Russian people deserved to call these territories their own, they developed them, raised virgin lands, built new cities there, laid out infrastructure. Why then can’t Russians have their own language as a state language? You don’t want to answer this, you call me a fascist)) Of course you won’t like it, but we Russians always remember everything. In the 90s you scattered stones: the Russians were pouring out of Kazakhstan....when the time will come to collect these stones, that’s all.

[Earthman]

Quote: Smoke

I’m writing the TRUTH, which hurts your eyes, that’s all.
I believe that in Kazakhstan Russian should be the state language.

The Russian language already has a place of honor with the Kazakh language. We are Turks, you are Slavs, and where are your Slavs, who at least have Russian as their official language? in the Balkans? according to you, the Russians liberated Poland from the Germans, Ukraine, Belarus, so where are the Slavic brothers who are at least somehow peaceful towards you? God would give Belarus fuel and energy and Belarus against Russia would be like Ukraine, for your information, Belarus has the highest percentage of Russification than even in Ukraine and Kazakhstan, do you think they don’t think about their national rights?

Quote: Smoke

The Russian people deserved to call these territories their own, they developed them, raised virgin lands, built new cities there, laid out infrastructure.

Only Russians lived in the USSR, right?
Who is Albert Kahn? who copied Fiat?

Quote: Smoke

In the 90s you scattered stones: the Russians were pouring out of Kazakhstan....when the time will come to collect these stones, that’s all.

in the 90s, Kazakhstan was in complete s_pe and instead of helping the country with yours, like a true Russian clumsy to stand on your feet with golden hands, instead you left Kazakhia? Without you we would die, right?
when Kazakhstan was in Zh_pe, you left so as not to spend a drop of sweat on Kazakhstan, and when now the state has at least learned to provide everyone with bread and has become better, you immediately want a good Kazakhstan for yourself, right?

TO ALL COMMUNIES, I see the administration on the side of my requests, they don’t remove it, I even know why. Let my comment to him be his last once and for all, after me, do not respond to his comment, respect yourself, argue with the worthy and you will become stronger, but you will fall for the low ones, and then you will gain more.
I appeal to everyone, do not pay attention to this provocateur and hypocrite Natsik, do not waste your nerves on inadequacy and shame and disgrace, it is better to put him on the ignore list.

He's just a TROLL

[Marek Rozny]

I also complained about Smoke’s messages before. zero reaction.

[Earthman]

Quote: Marek Rozny

I also complained about Smoke’s messages before. zero reaction.

I understand dear administration when they delete a user for no reason, and instead of his comments it says COMMENT DELETED and so on all the user’s comments, I think the admins need to, even if they delete, let them indicate everywhere who from the administration deleted the name for what and how on all comments of the deleted person user, so that later there will be monitoring of what ideological thoughts and where there are more in the CIS.

The reaction is of course zero, thank you at least for the blacklist, although there is a minus, despite the fact that we don’t read it, but other young inexperienced minds read it, no, that won’t work, I demand a red card for Smoke

[Nomad]

Quote: Smoke

Smoke (1) Today, 19:24 ↓ new
I’m writing the TRUTH, which hurts your eyes, that’s all

The same Marek has already sorted out your “truth” 5 times and showed that you are wrong all around, but at least you have a stake on your head, you continue to talk about the same thing. It’s scary to imagine how terrible your self-esteem problems are, since you cling to your great-power “superiority” with such stupid stubbornness. You should keep quiet there, otherwise you smell like a moron-loser even through the network.

[Smoke]

I'm tired of you)) I'll have to beat you first and then retrain you

[Marek Rozny]

Is the chisel itching?