The solution to the problems of the state defense order is seen in the revival of competition between enterprises

One of the frequently touched upon problems is a problem that is related to how hard sometimes the implementation of the state defense order is. Often, the Ministry of Defense cannot agree on prices and terms of production with defense enterprises, which leads to the breakdown of the GOZ. To eliminate this problem, various ideas are proposed. One of the last ideas proposed was the idea of ​​reviving competition between industrial enterprises in the defense-industrial complex. After all, if we pay attention to this possibility, then there appear quite unambiguous prospects according to which enterprises will be able to compete with each other on the right to receive orders from state military structures.

But in order for Russian defense enterprises to have the opportunity to openly compete with each other and work in the form of a kind of social competition, it is necessary to begin to modernize the enterprises of the military-industrial complex. After all, quite often enterprises that are called upon to produce military equipment of the new generation are forced to use outdated equipment for this. Often, the working conditions at such enterprises leave much to be desired. The owners of the enterprises of the production cycle are not very willing to go for modernization, sometimes believing that even industrial ventilation of industrial premises The modern sample is completely superfluous. As the saying goes, you can open the windows so that the workshop is fresh and cool.

Naturally, such an approach to production and its organization must always be changed. If you don’t start doing this today, then tomorrow we’ll definitely have to buy weapon and military equipment abroad. So far, Russia has every chance to stake out for itself the place of one of the main and best manufacturers of weapons of various kinds.

The other day in the media there was information that the Russian army would buy domestic Tiger armored vehicles for its needs. New modifications, unlike the previous ones, are built on the principle of “no foreign details”. The factory in Arzamas was visited by Deputy Prime Minister Rogozin, who stated a couple of months ago that such cars could also be produced for civilian needs. It is obvious that the use of the Russian "Tigers" will cost less and be more rational than if the Defense Ministry would buy Italian Iveco.

Comments

[Metlik]

American friends of mine often say: "Russians are very competitive."
Let the Russians work and they will surprise everyone, as has happened more than once.

[Romch]

That's right, the more we buy abroad, the faster we will poher our own industry, and this is what many sleep and see.

[DERWISH]

Well, of course, the production methods must be at the most modern level; otherwise, modern and high-quality new products cannot be obtained

[max-02215]

What Storetkin wanted to do, he could not refuse the "mistrals".

[Kaa]

"Iveki-Lynx" all the same 1775 pieces under the contract will have to be collected - otherwise the fines are very large. But Storetkin wanted a new contract - for 3000! Now he will no longer be, there will be "Tigers", for two "Mistralins" have already been paid - well, the other two will not be built, shipyards and money for other needs will be useful, more interesting than these tubs for suckers. Only it would be nice to include all this in the second-hand minister's indictment ... so that no one else would disagree ...

[Armata]

Quote: Kaa

Only it would be nice to bring all this into the indictment of a used minister ... so that no one else was discouraged ...

Oh come on? Damn there on 3 lifelong and on 2 execution through drowning in the toilet. Who will let the hamsters be mocked like that? Greenpeace pancake.

[uralkos]

It’s cheaper, but not at the expense of salaries for specialists and workers, or you’ll look at some manager, buy or sell (huckster), gets at least 5 times more engineer. With such reductions, we will only aggravate the situation. I wanted to go on a shift, to Irkutsk, to build Su. I was offered 15 tr for installation of power systems. And what is not in vain, for soldering bread? Have come. Businessmen x ... you. (Sorry, it’s painful).

[Alan]

Yes, do not apologize really hurt. So it turns out that the specialists only do not want to pay them, because we have the "Cult of an effective manager" amen.

[marsavin.yu]

It is necessary to return the entire defense industry to the state. Freeze energy prices. Calculate the cost of production. All saboteurs go to jail with confiscation for really long periods, without the right of leadership in the future. And begin to rebuild the state economy, taking care of people and not the wallets of oligarchs. .

[Egoza]

Hello, everybody!
Article +! Such news is very encouraging. Russia is on the rise! And not in words, but in deed!

[Alexasmi]

What are you talking about? What are social competitions in the era of capitalism? Where can we get competition if all the main areas of the defense industry are concentrated in the hands of certain holdings and these holdings practically do not intersect?

[engineer74]

That's what we say that competition is necessary, as air-monopoly does not bring to good. Concentration of defense industry sectors in large holdings is a major mistake of the country's leadership. It provoked not only the monopolization of the arms and military equipment market, but also the monopolization of the labor market and the level of government skills.
The future belongs to independent producers with temporary cooperation of production chains. IMHO
plus to you.

[FATEMOGAN]

Quote: engineer74

The future belongs to independent manufacturers with temporary cooperation of production chains. IMHO Plus to you.

and these independent foreigners, as it were, were not bought up, and they were not taken to offshore. and now, as far as I know, they want for the defense industry to introduce life-cycle contracts. In theory, this should improve the condition of factories.

[Alexasmi]

Apparently the minus gentlemen didn't even think about my words. Well, here's a direct example: almost all air defense has been crushed by the Almaz-Antey concern, so how, I wonder, will the enterprises within this concern compete with each other?

[Armata]

Quote: AlexAsmi

Apparently the minus gentlemen didn't even think about my words. Well, here's a direct example: almost all air defense has been crushed by the Almaz-Antey concern, so how, I wonder, will the enterprises within this concern compete with each other?

I did not minus, but I will try to answer the previous post. At this time, capitalism for an extra piece of the market will gnaw at each other. Even a large holding will never give up the extra 3-5% of the turnover and utilization of its own capacities. I would have formulated the question differently. How will this affect quality if tenders are decided by secret ballot? And to be honest, it’s just the amount of either rollback or the lowest price to reduce the cost of the product.

[Alexasmi]

Mechanic,
It's not about the price, the point is that now almost any defense enterprise is tailored for a certain type and type of product. For example, one enterprise makes "Torah", another "s-300". And they are not able to compete with each other in principle.
I don’t understand at all, have those handlers who offer the ideas described in the article, have you ever been at the enterprises? Have you talked to workers / engineers? The state order comes with a scratch and is banal, often because there is nothing to assemble equipment from. For example, for the production of a complex, I need specific microcircuits in the amount of 20-30 pieces per year. Which electronics company would agree to hold the line for such a "large" order? And if he agrees, then the price breaks down that sometimes it is easier to re-develop blocks / cells or the complex as a whole. This is where the crazy prices for government orders arise. And from what 5 manufacturing enterprises do, for example, "three hundred" - in general, nothing will change - the exhaust will be the same.
The only way out of this situation with state orders is to fully nationalize the defense industry, as well as oblige non-state enterprises to manufacture special components at a certain price under the threat, for example, of a full withdrawal of a production license (or what enterprises have there).

[queen]

Quote: AlexAsmi

The only way out of this situation with state orders is a complete nationalization of the defense industry

I have the same idea, but for a start, it would not hurt to deal with corruption.

[Armata]

Quote: AlexAsmi

It's not about the price, the point is that now almost any defense enterprise is tailored for a certain type and type of product. For example, one enterprise makes "Torah", another "s-300"

And why do you need 10 enterprises for one product? Maybe it’s better how several KB are competing for the best idea among themselves now? It is necessary to change the very rules of acceptance for the development and adoption of design documentation in production.

[Alexasmi]

Quote: Mechanic

And why do you need 10 enterprises for one product? Maybe it’s better how several KB are competing for the best idea among themselves now? It is necessary to change the very rules of acceptance for the development and adoption of design documentation in production.

Well, I communicate with such design bureaus every day, and now the conversation is not so much about "competition for the best idea", but about the survival of the design bureaus themselves. In my KB, a 60-year-old developer is like that, an errand boy. The base is even older. There are practically no young people, for 40-50 tons. nobody wants to be restricted to travel abroad. As some here told me: "Yes, we will earn more on Gorbushka."

[Armata]

Quote: AlexAsmi

Well, I communicate daily with such design bureaus

It’s not funny. I’ve been working in such a design bureau for 15 years. And I know perfectly well where and what is going on at the research institute.

[Alexasmi]

Quote: Mechanic

It’s not funny. I’ve been working in such a design bureau for 15 years. And I know perfectly well where and what is going on at the research institute.

I am the same.

[Armata]

Quote: AlexAsmi

I am the same.

Well, duck and what is the conversation then If the same, then you should understand that you do not need a bunch of enterprises producing different products for the same purpose. We need a normal project competition, and not bought in advance.

[Goldmitro]

<<< The other day in the media there was information that the Russian army will purchase domestic armored vehicles "Tiger" for its needs. New modifications, unlike the previous ones, are assembled on the principle of "not a single foreign part". >>>
Is it really not clear to anyone (except, of course, the effective business managers of the generals from the former leadership of the Moscow Region) that the purchase for the Russian army of military equipment equipped with foreign parts is equivalent to the purchase of this equipment with the MINA embedded in it, which will work at the most inopportune time!

[pinecone]

Well done. Keep it up! And the execution of the sketch of the rolling banner for the winners of the capsule competition entrust Yudashkin. Nothing that takes expensive .. Small broken, will not fail.

[razved]

That's right, this should make products better and better.

[fero]

First things first, it is necessary to drastically reduce the production area! In Soviet times, this may have been justified (counting on the bombardment, production shops were located at a considerable distance from each other), but now this is absolutely useless. Our defense enterprises are located in vast territories, due to which the in-plant expenses for logistics, heating, and other maintenance are simply not comparable with the best enterprises in the world. And all this against the background of a rather severe climate.

[fero]

Costs of lighting, arrangement and security of the perimeter, etc. etc all the same