Before the Fall of New Rome: Crusaders and Byzantines in 1202

41
Before the Fall of New Rome: Crusaders and Byzantines in 1202
Byzantine commander of the 1204th century in full equipment. Icon of Archangel Michael. Byzantium. XII century The icon was stolen during the sack of Constantinople in XNUMX and was located in the Cathedral of Christ Pantocrator. Pala Dora. St. Mark's Cathedral. Venice. Italy.


As we all know, every event has prerequisites and reasons. The question always remains open: how to determine them correctly?



Who and when planted a “bomb” under the “beautiful building” of state administration?

As part of this series, dedicated to the sieges of the capital of the Byzantine Empire, we have repeatedly observed how often she was on the verge of death, but she managed to slip between Scylla and Charybdis stories.

In general, oddly enough, the year 1204 was completely natural and connected not only or not so much with the machinations of the collective West, which did not exist either at that time or later. And with the development of Roman or late Roman society, which, by the way, got stuck, like many other ancient agricultural states, at the stage of a neighboring territorial community.

The country, a world center of learning and production in the 6th century, turned into an “old library” with remnants of bygone technologies by the 11th century.

Huge borders were cracking under the pressure of numerous, endless enemies. And the lack of progress in the economy and social relations, reinforced by ruinous taxes, could not provide adequate defense. This is precisely what caused the death of Byzantium. In contrast to Europe and Rus', where the established feudal society was able to adequately solve foreign policy problems.

Attempts by the knight emperors, who became acquainted with “feudalism,” to copy this system were simply faced with a shortage of land and future serfs.

And it was the feudal military machine that was able to finish off the weakened Roman Empire, which was stuck at the previous stage of socio-economic development.

Gathering of Pilgrims


Due to the difficult political situation in western Europe, not a single king went on the fourth crusade, organized to liberate the Holy Sepulcher by Pope Innocent III.

The 20-year-old Count Thibault III of Champagne, his cousin, the 29-year-old Louis, Comte de Blois and Chartres or Louis of Blois, decided to bear the cross during the knightly tournament in Écres (north of Reims) on November 28, 1199. Here, by the way, was the author of the “Conquest of Constantinople”, a participant in the Third Crusade and the “Marshal” of Champagne, not as significant a figure as the king’s relatives, J. de Villehardouin.

In February 1200 they were joined by Baudouin IX Count of Flanders and Hainaut and his brother Henri. And in the summer of 1200, Hugues de Saint-Paul, a participant in the Third Crusade, “took the cross.” The crusaders decided to move to the east not on foot, but in an expensive way - by sea. The leaders gave their money and also borrowed it from the merchants. In addition to paying for transportation, they paid for the maintenance of many knights and made large distributions to the monasteries.

The Venetians valued their objectively expensive services for the holy cause of transporting pilgrims at a huge 85 thousand marks of silver for transporting 33 crusaders and 500 horses.

According to most researchers, the Dux or Doge of Venice, Enrico Dandolo (1107(8)–1205), cleverly took advantage of this situation. The Council of Venice proposed the following terms of transportation: 4 horses, 500 knights, 4 squires and 500 thousand infantry for 9 thousand marks according to the Treaty that has survived to this day, or 000 thousand marks according to Villehardouin. Half of the Venetians were to take part in the campaign, and everything captured was to be divided equally.

It was obviously clear that this amount was impossible to pay. It was equal to the annual income of France or England.

Lease contract fleet was one year from the date of departure. Let's remember this fact.

According to Niketas Choniates:

Within three years, one hundred and ten dromons were built in Venice to transport cavalry, sixty long ships, and in addition more than seventy round ships were assembled, of which one, surpassing all the others in size, was called “Cosmos”.

Geoffroy de Villehardouin, like Robert de Clary, wrote that Venice fielded 50 armed galleys, most likely the same dromons. Which were actually the Venetian warriors, the “marines.”

For the campaign, galleys, naves and yuissiers were built and assembled.

Galleys, naves and huissiers


A few words about the ships used by the crusaders.

The name Huissier comes from the door (huis). The ship had a deep hold; sometimes you can find in literature that it had several decks. There were horses on the lower deck; several dozen of them could be placed. Most likely, this type of transportation was invented by the Byzantines, but was borrowed by the Venetians and began to be widely used by them.


Huissier. Church of San Giovanni Evangelista. Ravenna. Italy. Photo by the author.

The nave is a new type of exclusively sailing vessel that appeared in the 12th century. It could have several masts. Thus, on one 13th-century mosaic in St. Mark’s Cathedral you can see a ship with three masts: the tallest from the bow, the first and third masts have an oblique lateen sail, the bow is curved, and the ship has two steering oars. There are also images of ships without the ability to operate oars, with one mast, but with and without stern oars.

Presumably the nave, as it was called in France, was called a cogg in the north. In the Baltic and North Sea, she became the main ship of the trade union of the Hanseatic cities.


Nave, modern drawing. The ship depicted could hardly have been from the 12th century. Hood. V. A. Dygalo, M. Averyanov

Most likely, the nave became widespread precisely during the Crusades, since all the Italian maritime republics actively participated in them. The Italians both fought and transported the crusaders, but also transported goods from the east and Byzantium, becoming transit merchants at this time.


Nave of the 1465th century Fragment of the picture. Carpaccio (1525–XNUMX). Arrival of English ambassadors to the King of Brittany. Academy Gallery. Venice.

As for the galley, this is, in fact, a Byzantine dromon or its evolution. I wrote about this on VO in the article “Dromon”.

It was during this period that we observed the development of dromons towards increasing the rows of oars. If in previous periods this was the exception rather than the rule, as in the case of the two-tiered dromon “Salandria”, which captivated Emperor Otto II (955–983). Then, from the end of the XNUMXth century, we see a number of evidence, both from Anna Comnenus and Nikita Chonian, that two-row and three-row dromons are becoming commonplace.

Maritime republics such as Venice and Amalfi, cities in Calabria with a predominantly Greek population, were for a long time, until the mid-11th - early 12th centuries, cities subordinate to Byzantium, and their fleets were formed within the framework of the Roman Empire.


Venetian ship with sail and oars. Mosaic. St. Mark's Cathedral. Venice. Italy.

The Romans, who learned about this, tried to persuade the Venetians not to participate in this enterprise, but nothing came of it.

Pilgrims arrive in Venice


But in May 1201, young Thibault of Champagne dies and the council of barons in Soissons elected Boniface of Montferrat, whose brothers were famous crusaders, as leader. And he himself almost became Caesar in Byzantium, which I wrote about in a previous article. He was also a relative of the King of France, Philip II Augustus, just like the deceased Thibault.

Only 13 thousand soldiers arrived in Venice, instead of the planned ones, because many decided to leave not from Venice, but from other ports. The Crusaders were placed out of harm's way on a separate island of St. Nicholas, now Lido. An island covering Venice from the Adriatic Sea.


Cathedral of Santa Maria e Donato. XII century Murano Island. Venice. Italy. Photo by the author.

Despite the huge fees, when the leaders gave away all the treasures they had with them, 34 thousand remained unpaid. And then the enterprising Enrico Dandolo proposed a deal: to capture the city of Zadar, for which a deferment would be granted for the payment of the specified amount.

The lease of the fleet began on October 1, 1202 and was supposed to last a year, until September 30, 1203.

Byzantine fugitive


As Niketas Choniates reports, in 1202, the son of the dethroned Isaac II, Angela Alexei (1183–1204), who had fled on a Pisa ship from Constantinople from his uncle Emperor Alexius III, came to Rome in XNUMX.

The Alsatian monk Gunther of Paris wrote that the inspirer of this coup was Alexei Ducas, nicknamed Murzufl, the hero of our subsequent stories. After the death of Emperor Manuel, as often happened in the history of the Roman state, a series of coups began during a period of socio-political instability. Which I already wrote partially about in a previous article.

At the same time, disasters rained down both on the borders and within the multi-ethnic country. And the maddened Emperor Isaac II Angelos, who killed the last Komnenos, Andronikos, was deposed during his careless hunt, captured and blinded by his older brother, Alexios III Angelos in April 1195.

The nephew of the new Roman emperor and the son of an emperor deprived of power, came to his sister Irene, who was the wife of Duke Philip of Swabia. At the time of his arrival, she was already the Empress of the Western Roman Empire, as she was called at that time.

It is difficult to say what kind of real help Alexey was counting on; perhaps he simply escaped death, like many similar fugitives. But the Pope, according to Nikita Choniates, turned to the pilgrims in August 1202 to help restore his rights on the Byzantine table.

And Villehardouin reports that negotiations began after the capture of Zadar in January 1203, when the German Emperor Philip of Swabia addressed the pilgrims. He may have also sent a number of noble warriors to the crusader: Conrad von Krosig, Bishop of Halberstadt, Count Bert de Kassenelboge, Garnier de Borland, etc.

Alexei was offered conditions “that he could not refuse,” the same as those offered by the Doge to the crusaders. Perhaps the applicant agreed to this, hoping that when he was in Constantinople, he would not have to pay such a price.

On the other hand, Robert de Clary innocently presented a different version. During the siege of Zadar, the crusaders suffered serious losses, especially since the city surrendered to the doge and was not plundered. Many expressed the opinion that it was impossible to sail like this to either Egypt or Syria.

Then Doge Dandolo at the Council proposed to improve the situation at the expense of Greece:

Sirs, in Greece there is a very rich land full of all sorts of good things; if some suitable opportunity came up for us to go there and stock up on food and everything else in this land until we regained our strength, then this would seem to me a good way out - in that case we would be able to go overseas.

This is where the idea came up to support the brother of the wife of the German Emperor Tsarevich Alexei. And the pilgrims themselves sent envoys to Germany to give their predatory attack on Byzantium some kind of legitimacy.

Agreements were reached in January 1203. Both the campaign against Zadar and the campaign against Byzantium came as a surprise to the ordinary army. But not all pilgrims agreed with this approach, so the “party” led by Abbot de Vaux opposed the attack on Christians. Some of the knights, for example Simon de Montfort, and ordinary soldiers deserted, going to the Hungarian king.

For Zara (Zadar), the pope excommunicated the crusaders, but accepted repentance from the French, and the Venetians did not even try to get it.

Soon Alexey arrived at the pilgrims’ camp, who gave him a warm welcome.

Villehardouin writes that he came to Corfu, and Choniates that first to Zadar, from there the crusaders came to Dyrrachium (modern Durazio), where they were received, seeing that Alexius the Angel was with them.

But the powerful fortress of Kerkyra (Corfu) was taken for 20 days. Anonymous Halberstadt reported that the city residents met the pilgrims with great hostility, attacking them with dromons using “Greek fire.”

Alexei agreed to the following conditions: payment of a fabulous 200 thousand marks, maintenance of the crusaders for a year, participation in the campaign with them, maintenance of 500 knights or 1 soldiers in the Holy Land on a permanent basis, and the subordination of Byzantium to the Roman Church.

The path to wealth


There were also deserters in Corfu who went to Brindisi so as not to participate in the campaign in Romagna; Villehardouin says that half the army agreed with them.

On May 24 or 25, 1203, the crusaders moved with a huge fleet to Constantinople:

There were all the naves, and all the huissiers, and all the galleys of the army, and quite a few merchant ships that were traveling with them. And it was a clear day, and a quiet and kind wind was blowing; and they set their sails to the wind.

So the Doge of Venice directed the campaign of a large knightly army to defeat the Second Rome.

As a result of selfish short-term interests, the country, the direct successor of Rome, was destroyed.

To replenish food, first the knights and Venetians landed on the island. Euboea, then the knights raided under the pretext of subjugating it to Alexei on the island of Andros, which is located southeast of Euboea.


Image of warriors. Stained glass from the 13th century. Saint-Chapelle. Paris. France. Photo by the author.

What's in New Rome?


The fact that the crusaders were besieging Zadar and planning to strike Constantinople using the fleeing son of Isaac was reported to Basileus Alexius III, but he was engaged in landscape design, making fun of the Latin fleet, “turning into a joke all fair assumptions and rumors about the impending danger.” Including the need to build or repair a fleet in order to prevent the crusaders from approaching the capital, strengthen the walls and prepare weapons and weapon.

I wrote about what happened to the Roman fleet at this time in an article on VO “How “Greek fire” saved Constantinople.

After Emperor Manuel, who already lost a lot of ships in battles, the fleet remained an important combat component: while participating in the wars with Hungary, it transported the Third Crusade; Basileus Andronicus had 100 dromons in Constantinople. But, as Choniates reports, under Alexei III the fleet fell completely into disrepair. The scaffolding turned into forests for the king's reserved hunting.

And the dux of the fleet, Mikhail Strifn, married to the empress’s sister, did even better: he not only exchanged anchors and nails for gold, but even sold sails and ropes and thus did not leave absolutely a single warship in Roman harbors.

Dyrrachium recognized the new emperor on pain of the weapons of the pilgrims, then Alexei III became somewhat alarmed: he restored twenty “worm-eaten ships” and ordered the destruction of the buildings behind the fortifications. He was lucky that his predecessors still worked on strengthening the city walls.

The restless basileus-knight Manuel I Komnenos completed the construction of a fort with five forts (Pentapyrgion) in front of the Golden Gate. The same Manuel, and then Andronikos, further strengthened the walls of Blachernae, which was located in the northwestern corner of Constantinople, with its church of Panagia Blachernae or the Temple of the Virgin Mary, the most important Christian temple associated with the Mother of God. A number of emperors gradually erected walls and towers around the palace. Under the Comnenians, Blachernae became the main imperial palace.


Ruins of the fortifications of Blachernae from the Golden Horn. Istanbul. Türkiye. Photo by the author.

It is very strange that this palace was located in a dangerous direction. I wrote earlier that the overwhelming number of attackers did this in the Vlaherna area.

Meanwhile, the crusaders captured the Roman Fr. Euboea and began to land in the city of Abydos (modern Canakkale) on June 1, 1203:

...the Latins appeared under the walls of Constantinople so unexpectedly that almost no one in the city knew about their arrival.

To be continued ...
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  1. +1
    11 March 2024 05: 45
    Thank you very much Edward!
    Then, from the end of the 11th century, we see a number of evidence, both from Anna Comnenus and Nikita Chonian, that two-row and three-row dromons are becoming commonplace.

    More likely, the dormons and large galleys of that time always had two rows of oarsmen, who rowed each with their own oar, through their own port. Three-row dormons should be understood as dormons (galleys) with two rows of ports (in height), where one row of rowers rowed through their own port, and the other two rowed through one (all with their own oars). Later it all came down to the classic Venetian galley - three oarsmen on a bench, each with his own oar and working through one port.
    1. +3
      11 March 2024 06: 56
      Vladislav good morning!
      I wrote about the rows and number of rowers on the Byzantine dromons in the article “Dromon”.
      If we take the history of rowing ships from antiquity, then rowing has always been understood as the sequence of rows on them.
      hi
      1. +3
        11 March 2024 07: 12
        Excellent material, Edward.
  2. +4
    11 March 2024 06: 01
    In the 2000s, I didn’t know that I was living in the time of the Basileus. A miss by as much as 800 years.
    1. +4
      11 March 2024 06: 59
      In the 2000s, I didn’t know that I was living in the time of the Basileus.

      Then not basileus, but basileus.
      It's good that it's not basilisks.
      The Basileus were Agamemnon, Menelaus and Odysseus.
      So everyone makes typos hi
  3. +3
    11 March 2024 06: 55
    Moscow is the Third Rome, but there will never be a fourth wink
    1. +6
      11 March 2024 07: 10
      Moscow is the Third Rome, but there will never be a fourth
      good
      City on seven hills!
      1. +1
        11 March 2024 11: 05
        Quote: Edward Vashchenko
        Moscow is the Third Rome, but there will never be a fourth
        good
        City on seven hills!

        Why not Yekaterinburg? tongue
        1. +4
          11 March 2024 12: 14
          Why not Yekaterinburg?

          And Ekaterinburg on seven hills?
          It always seemed like a plain to me))))) and with the current clearings and massive construction - also a steppe laughing
          1. +1
            11 March 2024 15: 03
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            It always seemed plain to me
            Do you think the Urals are flat? wink
            1. +1
              11 March 2024 20: 31
              So Yekaterinburg is not in the Ural Mountains, you have to go out of town))))
          2. +2
            11 March 2024 19: 59
            No joke: Bald, Vasina, Mitina, Voznesenskaya, Moskovskaya, Ivanovskaya, Monastyrskaya hills - this is just the historical center of Yekaterinburg. In reality, naturally more.
  4. +6
    11 March 2024 07: 10
    hi Good morning Edward! This is the article I have been waiting for all this time. I suspect the continuation will consist of two parts? My soul rests when I read your articles, without fiction, conspiracy theories and genealogy, without great-nephews and other distant relatives.
    1. +6
      11 March 2024 07: 14
      I suspect the continuation will consist of two parts?

      Alexey good morning!!!
      Thank you for rating.
      Absolutely right: it will be 1203 and 1204.
      At Anton’s request and recommendations, I’ll probably write separately, it won’t fit into “1204”: a trip through modern Istanbul, to the places of “battles,” so to speak.
      hi
      1. +3
        11 March 2024 07: 19
        In Opinions, such ..mmm..there are no suitable words, an article was posted about how “an Englishwoman craps”, and you have “a ray in the dark kingdom”. hi
  5. +3
    11 March 2024 07: 20
    “captured and blinded by his older brother” with such a brother there is no need for an enemy.
    I had a friend, Yulia, from the age of 13 without a mother, and my father was a drunk, and he brought a woman who was an alcoholic. I don’t know what happened to them, but Julia is raising 2 children of her late stepmother. Because of them, she didn’t get married. True, he has a child.
    It seemed that she didn’t care about her stepmother’s kids, but they lived like they were full.
    We even envy their friendship.
    And then the older brother made a slight joke
    1. +2
      11 March 2024 07: 30
      Good afternoon!
      Yulia did not have an empire the day before.
      hi
      1. +2
        11 March 2024 07: 40
        Edward, is there a typo for you: “Julia on the eve”, perhaps: at stake?
        1. +1
          11 March 2024 07: 54
          You have a typo: "Julia on the eve"

          Yes. Thank you!!!
  6. +2
    11 March 2024 07: 31
    Some knights, for example Simon de Montfort, and ordinary soldiers deserted,
    5 years later, Signor d'Montfort was not so scrupulous when he led the Albino Crusade. Everything is correct:
    "And you can safely not move,
    War in Europe is a simple matter" (c)
  7. +2
    11 March 2024 07: 33
    Good morning, Edward, perhaps I’m stupid, but I remember from history that “the established FEUDAL society was able to ADEQUATELY”: feudal fragmentation is bad. Suddenly it “deals adequately.” Doesn't reach me
    1. +4
      11 March 2024 08: 03
      "the formed FEUDAL society was able to ADEQUATELY"

      Feudal society was a society of progress at a certain stage.
      And, in relation to the society of the territorial community, of course, since it could solve defense issues much more effectively.
      Fragmentation came later.
      From a scientific point of view, not a school one, how bad this is remains open.
      Because in school they teach that the Mongols defeated us, VERY CONVENTIONALLY, because there was feudal fragmentation, which did not exist.
      Of course, this is the view of science 70 years ago, but all the intricacies of the system, management and classes cannot be explained to children, they are very small, yes, they are children)))))


      hi
      1. -2
        11 March 2024 09: 05
        Because in school they teach that the Mongols defeated us, VERY CONVENTIONALLY, because there was feudal fragmentation, which did not exist.
        "Like peasants fortresses,
        Fragment the state
        They teach at school
        They teach at school
        They teach at school!" laughing
        1. +1
          11 March 2024 10: 46
          "Like peasants fortresses,
          Fragment the state
          They teach at school

          Bravo Anton!!!
          Here are the articles - thanks to your efforts!
  8. +1
    11 March 2024 07: 55
    It was obviously clear that this amount was impossible to pay. It was equal to the annual income of France or England.
    Got a question. Where does information come from about the annual income of the kingdoms during this period and what is meant by “mark of silver” in this case?
    Thanks Edward!
    1. +2
      11 March 2024 08: 30
      Anton, good morning!
      Where does the information about the annual income of the kingdoms during this period come from?

      Data from M.A. Zaborov.
      "And what is meant in this case by 'silver mark'?"
      A monetary unit of weight, weight, not coins, they write about it in the Treaty with Venice, and Villehardouin. Like a Byzantine liter (weight varied slightly).
      Also D.M. Prozorovsky, in his fundamental work on monetary weight (in relation to Rus'), indicated that his source in Europe was the weight of Byzantine coins and bullion.
      hi
      1. +2
        11 March 2024 09: 02
        Monetary weight unit
        As I expected. Thank you!
      2. 0
        13 March 2024 17: 56
        Data from M.A. Zaborov.
        Yes, Zaborov M.A. definitely an authority. But nevertheless, what did Zaborov himself rely on?
        After all, judging by the list of literature he used when writing his work about the crusaders, he did not use authentic documents.
        Alexiade - Anne Comnène, Alexiade, ed. B. Leib, t. I. Paris, 1937; t. II. Paris, 1943; t. III, Paris, 1945. (see translation)

        Alb. Aquen. - Alberti Aquensis Historia Hierosolymitana, - RHCoc., t. IV. Paris, 1879.

        Ambrois, The Crusade of Richard the Lion-Hearth, - M. J. Hubert and J. L. La Monte, The Crusade of Richard Lion-Heart, Columbia University Records of Civilization, Sources and Studies, N° XXIV, New York, 1941.

        Annal. August. - Annales Augustiani, - MGHSS, t. III, Hanoverae, 1839.

        Annal. Blandin. — Annales Blandinenses, — MGHSS, t. V, Hanoverae, 1849.

        Annal. Dorens. - Annales Dorenses, - MGHSS, t. XXVII, Hanoverae, 1885.

        Annal. Formosel. — Annales Formoselenses, — MGHSS, t. V.

        Annal. Laub. — Annalium Laubiensium continuatio, — MGHSS, t. IV, Hanoverae, 1841.

        Annal. Leod. — Annalium Leodiensium continuatio, — MGHSS, t. IV.

        Annal. Mosomag. - Annales Mosomagenses, - MGHSS, t. III.

        Annal. Rosenveld. - Annales Rosenveldenses, - MGHSS, t. XVI, Hanoverae, 1859.

        Annal. S. Disib. - Annales Sancti Disibodi, - MGHSS, t. XVII, Hanoverae, 1861.

        Annal. S. Jacobi. - Annales Sancti Jacobi Leodiensis, - MGHSS, t. XVI.

        Annal. S. Petri Erphesfurd. - Annales Sancti Petri Erphcsfurdenses, - MGHSS, t. XVI.

        Annal. Wirziburg. - Annales Wirziburgenses, - MGHSS, t. II, Hanoverae, 1829.

        Annal. Zwifalt. - Annales Zwifaltenses, - MGHSS, t. X, Hanoverae, 1852.

        Anon. — L. Bréhier (éd.), Histoire anonyme de la première croisade (Gesta Francorum et aliorum Hierosolymitanorum), Paris, 1924.

        Anon. Halberstad. — Anonymi Halberstadensis Chronicon (De peregrinatione in Greciam et adventu relinquarum de Grecia libellus), — P. Riant, Exuviae sacrae Constantinopolitanae, t. I, Genevae, 1877.

        Anon. Suession. — Anonymi Suessionensis De Terra Iherosolymitana et quomodo ab urbe Constantinopolitana ad banc ecclesiam allata sunt reliquiae, — P. Riant, Exuviae sacrae Constantinopolitanae, t. I. (see translation)

        Baldr. Dol. — Baldrici episcopi Dolensis Historia Jerosolimitana, — RHCoc., t. IV.

        And so on

        That is, his research about the crusaders is not the fruit of his work with documents, but the essence of his compilation of works written on this topic by his predecessors earlier, including various annals. I believe that a photocopy of the Treaty of the Crusaders with Venice by M.A. I didn't see any fences. However, it is not a fact that anyone even saw this Agreement. hi
        1. 0
          15 March 2024 06: 08
          Good morning!
          Yes, Zaborov M.A. definitely an authority.

          He worked with published sources, and you cited them.
          If you work only with the originals of these sources, three lives will not be enough.
          Such researchers practically do not exist.
          I only saw the original Laurentian Chronicle from afar...so what?
          It has been published, I also have a photocopy. I know the historiography of research and the complexity of translation. I have knowledge of the language. And what does this change in the study?
          I repeat - to study the originals, which of course have been preserved, three lives are not enough.
          It’s like the mechanics of modern diesel locomotives, forcing you to start every time with studying the first steam locomotive of the early 19th century.)
          Plus: he translated both De Clari and Villehardouin into Russian.
          And a number of sources on other crusades - partially.
          hi
          1. 0
            15 March 2024 07: 17
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            I repeat - to study the originals, which of course have been preserved, three lives are not enough.
            Apparently you didn't read carefully. I did not talk about the originals of those works of art on the basis of which Zaborov made his compilation. I said that his research about the crusaders is not the result of his work with documents Do you understand?? No documents!!!! None!!! Although there should be. At least somewhere there should be that Treaty of the Crusaders with Venice, which is talked about so often and so much. But neither does he. What, did the mice eat? Or maybe it never existed?
            Plus: he translated both De Clari and Villehardouin into Russian.
            Amazing. Only here we have the same problem again. What exactly did he translate? Is the handwriting of these characters known to humanity?
            I repeat that I personally adhere to the positivist paradigm in source studies, which was most consistently developed in the work of Sh.-V. Langlois and C. Senobos “Introduction to the Study of History” (1898), which was based on a course of lectures they gave at the Sorbonne in the 1896/97 academic year. Sh.-V. Langlois (1863–1929) – medievalist historian, professor at the Sorbonne, holder of a diploma from the National School of Charters, director of the National Archives (1912–1929), member (since 1917), then president (since 1925) of the Academy of Inscriptions and Fine Letters . C. Senyobos (1854–1942) – professor at the Sorbonne (1890), began his research activities with the study of ancient and medieval history, later specialized in modern history, author of the work “Political History of Modern Europe” (1897).
            "Introduction to the Study of History" begins with a formula that over time has become an aphorism:
            History is written according to documents.
            Documents are traces left by the thoughts and actions of people who once lived <…>. Every thought and every deed that has not left a direct or indirect trace, or whose visible trace has disappeared, is forever lost to history, as if it had never existed <…>.
            Nothing can replace documents: if they are gone, there is no history.
            And a compilation of the works of predecessors... this is exactly what the unforgettable Anatole France wrote about in his novel-essay "Penguin Island". What I’ve already talked about ten times here.
            There are no documents left from the Crusades at all, but there are only narrative sources, unknown when and unknown by whom, actually written?
            There are no ordinary reports to the kings of Europe about the actions of the crusaders from the leaders of the crusaders.
            Yes, even narratives like private letters from the crusaders from the “Holy Lands” to their homeland are not available. Yes, of course, the post office did not work at that time. But there were certainly opportunities.
            1. 0
              15 March 2024 07: 29
              "Introduction to the Study of History" begins with a formula that over time has become an aphorism:
              History is written according to documents.

              if they are!
              If not, it is not written at all.
              For the events described in my article, NARRATORY HISTORICAL SOURCES - NO MORE THAN 10.
              Read modern works on source study, we are in the 21st century, and in the 19th century, the works you are writing about were related to the fact that scientific source study was only taking the first steps in understanding how to work with a source.
              Zaborov is a researcher who certainly had a high level of source knowledge; this is what all his works and journal articles are about.
              PS if it's not a secret, what is your specialty?
              hi
              1. 0
                15 March 2024 20: 29
                It's good that you have this: History is written from documents. If they are! If not, it is not written at all. - you understand. This is exactly what I’ve been talking about... for as long as I’ve been on this resource.
                Without authentic documents of the very time that historians talk and write about, everything that they say and write is a description... well, similar to the description of the History of Gondor, Rohon, the Shire and in general all of Middle-earth, which is mentioned in the chronicle of Bilbo Baggins , continued by Frodo Baggins wink
                Whether it happened or not, no one knows for sure. But it's written very beautifully hi
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                Read modern works on source study, we are in the 21st century, and in the 19th century, the works you are writing about were related to the fact that scientific source study was only taking the first steps in understanding how to work with a source.

                Well, that’s not the problem, whether I read the latest works on source studies or remained at the penultimate ones. The point is that no authentic historical documents were ever discovered, either from Byzantium at that time, or from Venice at that time, or from other European or Asian states.
                Likewise, no new authentic narrative historical sources of that time have been discovered.
                Therefore, it is absolutely not important that in source studies they are now considered “the latest fashionable trend”, if all the same there is only what was.
                Annals? Yes, these are narrative sources. And, what is saddest, not one of the annals is written, so to speak, in the first person in the development of events. There are no expressions "yesterday" in the annals; "I forgot to say what happened a week ago" ; "Today" ; “scheduled for tomorrow” and so on and so forth. That is, all the annals were written AFTER all the events described in them. And it is unknown when after. It’s funny, but in source studies a number of “historians and source scientists” seriously state that such and such a chronicle or annal was written, let’s say, now a purely abstract example, in the year 1100 because all the events before 1100 were written in the same handwriting, and events after 1100 and before 1150 - in a different handwriting, and events after 1150 - in a third handwriting. And fantasies begin on the topic of who the chronicler (annalopist) was, how he died, but transferred his work to another chronicler. But in fact, everything could be simpler. Just some author in his second work. At first, one scribe took notes for him. Then that scribe went on a drinking binge, fell ill, died, or demanded increased payment for his work, but the author refused, in short, the author hired another scribe, and perhaps for some period, until another scribe appeared, the text of the chronicle or annal was written by himself author. The author then fired the second scribe and hired a third scribe....
                PS Unfinished higher military and completed higher technical. By profession, you can probably say that he is a professional investigator. During the USSR, he worked in the Main Committee of the Moscow City Executive Committee, in the system of the People's Commissars of the USSR, and periodically went to economic work, including after the collapse of the USSR. He returned to the control and supervision authorities, and again went into commerce and returned again. That is, I know working with documents (sources) so deeply that no historian has ever dreamed of doing so.
                And if someone (he won’t point a finger, but it was Caliber) believes that if he was published in the AST publishing house, then he should be read and listened to respectfully, then from my point of view this is complete stupidity. Back in Soviet times, my materials were put on the table, for example, of Prokofiev, Kolbin, the Head of the KGB for Moscow and the region.
                1. 0
                  16 March 2024 12: 44
                  Slip of the pen.
                  Just some author in his second work
                  Right : "It was just some author dictating his work."
  9. +4
    11 March 2024 11: 00
    It was worth clarifying what kind of city Zadar was, who it belonged to and why Doge Dandolo sent the crusaders there.
    Spoiler - the inhabitants of the city were the same Catholics as the besiegers.
    1. +1
      11 March 2024 11: 12
      the inhabitants of the city were just as Catholic as the besiegers.
      In Beziers, the Cathars also made up 3-4 percent of the total population
    2. +1
      11 March 2024 12: 19
      It was worth clarifying what kind of city this is - Zadar

      I agree.
      When you write, sometimes you forget that you have been in the subject for “a hundred years.”
      Alas.
      hi
  10. +2
    11 March 2024 11: 21
    For Zara (Zadar) the pope excommunicated the crusaders

    Is Dad an idealist?
    And the dux of the fleet, Mikhail Strifn, married to the empress’s sister, did even better: he not only exchanged anchors and nails for gold, but even sold sails and ropes and thus did not leave absolutely a single warship in Roman harbors.

    It wasn’t about him that they said that he even sold the wind blowing in his sails? hi
    1. +3
      11 March 2024 12: 18
      Hello, Sergey!
      he even sold the wind blowing in the sails

      Perhaps...but Choniates does not have this.
      Is Dad an idealist?

      Many popes were idealists, but what about popes...even among tyrants there were idealist philosophers...
      One does not contradict the other.
      hi
    2. +1
      11 March 2024 13: 44
      Is Dad an idealist?
      Nothing happened to him.
  11. +1
    11 March 2024 17: 45
    "The Conquest of Constantinople" was written not by J. de Villehardouin but by Robert de Clary.
  12. ANB
    0
    11 March 2024 19: 48
    Please correct the 21st century to the 13th in years. I then realized that 2003 is 1203. But throughout the text...