Enemies of the people: rewriters of the history of the Great Patriotic War today

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Enemies of the people: rewriters of the history of the Great Patriotic War today

I want to say right away that the Voronezh region is by no means an isolated example. It’s just that she seems to be the closest, but this will be followed by stories about other cities whose authorities are carrying out actions that are, to put it mildly, inadequate, such as the authorities’ fierce resistance to the demolition of monuments to Italian fascists. But the war with the Italians on Russian soil has been going on for more than ten years, and the Italian fascists and their Russian minions are still gaining the upper hand.

But, I repeat, there is something to talk about besides them. About that very rewriting stories, which is handled by the authorities of Russian cities. The reasons for this process are sometimes not entirely clear, and sometimes transparent to the point of disgrace. And we’ll talk about some of them today.



But I would like to start with quotes.

“For Russia, May 9 is the greatest and holiest holiday... Our memory is not only a tribute to the historical past, it serves our future, it consolidates our unity. We must defend the truth about Victory, otherwise what will we tell our children if lies spread like an infection throughout the world? We will have to counter blatant lies and attempts to change history with facts.”
V.V. Putin, 2020

“I’m sure we will preserve this memory, this truth about the war. We are doing and will do everything so that our country, our homeland will always be a great and powerful power, and we will always be grateful to the victors who stepped into immortality, to those who gave us, future generations, life and peace.”
V.V. Putin, 2021

“Attempts by a number of states to rewrite and reshape world history are becoming more and more aggressive, and by and large have an obvious goal in relation to our society, at a minimum: to divide us, deprive us of guidelines, weaken and influence its sovereignty, in fact, shake up sovereignty. Distortion of history, propagation of myths, it is with these myths that the swing of states and peoples begins... The basis of our national identity has been and remains the continuity of generations, loyalty to traditions, high spiritual and moral guidelines. As you know, the foundations of state policy for the preservation and strengthening of traditional values ​​were recently approved. These, of course, include historical memory.”
V.V. Putin, 2022

There is an understanding that the president is hammering away at the same thing year after year, but somehow it doesn’t get through. Moreover, as in that proverb about the cat, where “Vaska listens and eats,” the similarity is one to one. Local officials listen to the president, nod in agreement, express their readiness to follow the announced course, and so on. But in fact, the rewriting of history continues.

And today, those who deliberately distort history, for some reason they do not always fall into the ranks of those who need to be checked by the relevant departments. In terms of compliance with the very voiced course, even if not by the party.

So, about distortions of history using the example of the city of military glory Voronezh.


1. What is celebrated on January 25?


Every year on January 25, the so-called “Voronezh Liberation Day” is celebrated with some kind of manic persistence. Historians, who are real, protest, but, as they say, “the banquet is paid for,” so it is more convenient for officials to believe that Voronezh was captured and liberated.

Was the city of Voronezh captured? Of course not.

In general, how do you consider whether a city has been captured by the enemy or not? It's simple. The area of ​​the city within the city limits has been captured, there are no enemy units in it, and there is an administration in the city. This, oddly enough, is a very important point: presence of occupation administration.

We look:
1. Voronezh was not completely captured. Scoundrels from history squeal that, they say, no one lived on the left bank of the Voronezh River, everything was on the right. And for some reason they forget that it was on the left bank that there were huge factories: the Telman car repair plant and aviation plant.

Even the semi-fascist Wikipedia admits that during the Great Patriotic War there were TWO cities where the front line ran through the city. Voronezh and Stalingrad.

Moreover, I give a quote from the famous Order No. 227 of the People's Commissar of Defense, Comrade Stalin:

ORDER OF THE PEOPLE'S COMMISSAR OF DEFENSE OF THE USSR
On measures to strengthen discipline and order in the Red Army and the prohibition of unauthorized withdrawal from combat positions
№ 227
July 28, 1942


Moscow
The enemy is throwing more and more forces to the front and, regardless of the great losses for him, climbs forward, rushes into the depths of the Soviet Union, captures new regions, devastates and ruins our cities and villages, rapes, robs and kills the Soviet population. Fighting is taking place in the Voronezh region, on the Don, in the south at the gates of the North Caucasus. The German occupiers are rushing towards Stalingrad, towards the Volga and want to capture Kuban and the North Caucasus with their oil and grain riches at any cost. The enemy has already captured Voroshilovgrad, Starobelsk, Rossosh, Kupyansk, Valuiki, Novocherkassk, Rostov-on-Don, half of Voronezh. Part of the troops of the Southern Front, following the alarmists, left Rostov and Novocherkassk without serious resistance and without orders from Moscow, covering their banners with shame.

I emphasize boldly: “half of Voronezh.” What other evidence is needed there?

But attention!

Those who believe that the front line crossed the river are also mistaken! On the seemingly captured right bank part in the area of ​​the Agricultural University, the soldiers clung to the ground with a stranglehold, and two days after the Germans entered the city, on July 10, 1942, they successfully carried out a counterattack and gained a foothold on the right bank. Combined regiment of the NKVD (border guards, this is the place of their strength and honor!), part of the forces of the 121st Infantry Division, the 796th Regiment of the 141st Infantry Division and a separate battalion of heavy tanks Hero of the Soviet Union I. I. Makovsky. And the Germans failed to knock them out of there until the winter offensive of the Soviet troops.

So points 1 and 2 are not fulfilled.

Point number 3 also goes there. There was no German occupation administration in the city. There was only a military commandant's office, and this is a completely different institution.

And on January 26, 1943, in the daily report of the Sovinformburo, Yuri Borisovich Levitan reported:

“On January 25, the troops of the Voronezh Front, going on the offensive in the Voronezh region, overthrew German units and completely captured the city of Voronezh! The eastern bank of the Don River in the area west and southwest of the city was also cleared of Nazi troops. The number of prisoners taken near Voronezh by the end of January 24 increased by eleven thousand soldiers and officers. Thus, the total number of prisoners taken in the Voronezh Front region reached 75 thousand soldiers and officers!”

Completely mastered. They didn't release me. “Liberated” is for many other cities that are not so lucky, although... 212 days on the front line, 95% of the housing stock destroyed...

Total: Voronezh was not captured, and accordingly, there was nothing to liberate. Someone tell me, when do we celebrate the Day of the Liberation of Stalingrad? That's right, never. There is no such day in the calendar of our past. There is a day when the Battle of Stalingrad ends. So where did these scoundrels from history get some kind of “day of liberation” if the city was not captured?

There may only be a day when the battle for Voronezh ends. Any other interpretation is a discredit to our memory. Although Governor Gusev. Speaking at the “Russia” forum, he spoke three times specifically about the “liberation” of Voronezh.

But this is just a saying. The tale will continue.

2. What do the Voronezh authorities worship?


By the way, it was timely to remember the governor and his performance at “Russia”. It's in the title.


What's behind Gusev's back? What does it look so good against?


And against the backdrop of an unknown crap, built I don’t understand how, but which everyone rubs in as a “monument to glory.” And today this flawed practice has reached the point that young people, younger generations, when asked “Do you know where our Monument of Glory is,” confidently answer: “So that’s it!” Pyramid!".

And yes, there has been a change in concepts in the city. Instead of the Monument of Glory, with a monument and a bas-relief, an Eternal Flame and the names of soldiers and officers buried in a mass grave - here you go, a plastic crap that doesn’t even have the status of a monument! The pyramid is generally not clear on whose balance sheet it is located, which is why it often has a corresponding appearance.

But it is she who is mistaken for a monument. And the real monument is nearby, but in the shadows.






The author of this... pyramidal structure, let's call it that, was Leonid Yanovsky, an undoubtedly talented man who has done many interesting projects for the city. Yanovsky was for a long time the city's chief artist and deputy chief architect. But the man had a weak point - he loved pyramids. There are a lot of buildings in the city with pyramidal decoration. This was the best way to get a visa from Yanovsky.

And this construction, which has no historical background and value, born in the fire of the thoughts of the then triumvirate Shabanov (governor) - Tsapin (mayor) - Yanovsky, was registered at the entrance to the city. At first it was simply red, and then the letters “Voronezh - City of Military Glory” appeared after the city was awarded this title.

Gradually, the red pyramid began to displace everything else from the souvenir symbolism. Yes, I agree that it looks bright, and the author of the project also put up an assortment of small pyramids. The people themselves called them “Lenka’s carrots”. Some of it is already there, but there is still a little left.


Well, the man loved the pyramid, what can you do...

But in general, it is a filthy idol and a citadel of false substitutions. Pyramid. It’s really a shame for the city, because if Voronezh were a sort of “Foolish City”, with monuments to a beer mug and a three-liter can, it wouldn’t even be like that. But the city has simply a lot of beautiful, including modern, monuments. One military postman is worth something, a masterpiece, but there are also beautiful monuments to internationalist soldiers, special forces, sailors...

But the main “masterpiece” is the pyramid. But, you know, it’s cheap. According to the recollections of Ivan Obraztsov, the then head of the district, this construction cost the city less than a million rubles. Like a Chinese SUV instead of a Land Rover.


3. Unnecessary monuments


Yes, there are some. There are also those that frankly demand attention. It should be noted that after our intervention, a major overhaul of Mass Grave No. 15 was carried out several years ago, but at another point even a bunch of media outlets turned out to be powerless.

We are talking about how, with the full connivance of the authorities, a monument to the workers of the Comintern plant who died on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War was destroyed. It and the plant were destroyed and sold. Really, why does Russia need excavators? You can buy Chinese ones, they are so productive and reliable...


By the way, the supports for the pyramid structure were welded at the Comintern plant.

“Voronezh – the birthplace of the New Year”


Sometimes what the Voronezh authorities do is touching. This year, all of Russia (who was in the know) laughed like a horse at the fact that “Voronezh is the birthplace of the New Year.” I don’t know from what motives they began to construct this title, they say, the decree on the transition to a new celebration of the beginning of the year from September to January and the celebration was signed by Peter the Great in 1699. It is reliably known that this year he lived in Moscow and Voronezh. So there is a possibility that the decree was signed in Voronezh. Or in Moscow. Or in a carriage between Moscow and Voronezh. It doesn’t matter anymore (this will become clear later - a “trick” of Voronezh officials).

The main thing is that the grants have already been issued, which means that Voronezh will be the birthplace of the New Year. The “real Santa Claus” has already signed the corresponding order.

In general, it’s sucking out something that’s unclear, and it’s not clear why. We haven’t had a proper winter for a long time, winter tourism means laughter and tears in the mud. Why this is is not at all clear.

But how cleverly our leaders erased the plant named after the Comintern and its most famous brainchild from history... As if by order.

But it was at the Comintern plant that the first Izdeliye K-2 machines were assembled, which later received the terrible name “Katyusha” for some. And it was from the gates of the plant that the first cars left and went under their own power to Moscow, yes, to where that very battery of Captain Flerov was formed. And it was our Voronezh “Katyushas” that terrified the Germans for the first time. The first, but far from the last.

And in the end? The memorial wall was destroyed, the plaques were housed in a building that now belongs to a medical company, and the monument with the original launch guide system was also destroyed.



The guides say that a Voronezh reenactor managed to take him out and save him.

The birthplace of the New Year is, of course, more interesting than the birthplace of Katyusha, isn’t it?

It turns out that way.

And you can’t say that the mayor and governor are doing nothing at all. Yes, of course, they are far from ideal, like the victory in 1941, but they actually do some things as they should. I really liked the monument that was installed to replace the one that had practically fallen into disrepair in Malaya Gribanovka.


Two pilots. A gorgeous monument. They did it by order of the governor. But here there is only one question: what, without the governor? Well, okay, no way. Then yes, it’s better to do the same with the governor.

So it turns out that the president is repairing roads, and the governor is erecting monuments to the heroes of the Great Patriotic War. That's how we live.

With a red fig at the entrance.

But in the city of a normal person, the entrance group could be beautiful. Like in Lipetsk, for example. Showing attitude to the issue.


And in Voronezh there could be something no less, and even more significant. Because “Katyusha”, because Il-2, because mortars at six factories, armored trains, because the homeland of the Airborne Forces.

But for some reason, the unrecognized Hero City (and Voronezh’s contribution to the Victory was greater than that of Kyiv and Minsk, no offense) continues to be humiliated. And now we move on to the last part. Which, I suspect, will cause a great response among those who care.


4. The story of a strange feat


In general, I will give this story briefly, since a larger investigation is underway for consideration by higher authorities. When the investigation is completed, a material will be released that will give a complete picture of what was done. For now it’s just the beginning.

There is a monument in Voronezh. It is called the “Rotunda” because this round structure is the remains of a four-story building of the therapeutic building of the regional clinical hospital, built in 1940. Conservation was completed in 2020 (after the roof collapsed in 2008), and now there is no access to the territory.


A monument was erected next to the “rotunda”. A wonderful monument, one of those the city can be proud of, it is truly so spiritual. Not requiring the slightest decoding, it is immediately clear what the sculptor wanted to say. A very worthy creation.


The monument is dedicated to three soldiers, let’s say: the predecessors of Alexander Matrosov. Today, all such heroes are called Sailors, who repeated the feat of Alexander Matrosov, but the fact is that in Voronezh the soldiers accomplished their feats much earlier than Sailors did. For half a year. In July 1942.

Red Army soldier Gennady Sergeevich Vavilov from the Vladimir region. 1923 - July 15, 1942.
Posthumously awarded the Order of Lenin.

Lieutenant Bovkun Mikhail Kuzmich from the Poltava region. 1921 - July 17, 1942.
Posthumously awarded the Order of Lenin. The commander of the platoon in which the Red Army soldier Vavilov served.

Foreman Abyzov Mikhail Petrovich from the Kemerovo region. April 7, 1910 - July 20, 1942.
Posthumously awarded the Order of the Red Banner.

For the sake of historical justice, I note that all three heroes did not cover the machine gun embrasures. They undermined enemy machine-gun crews with grenades along with themselves, thus destroying firing points. All three.


As you can see, the exploits of the soldiers did not go unnoticed even in the terrible conditions of 1942. The two Orders of Lenin and the Order of the Red Banner are, of course, not the stars of the Heroes of the Soviet Union, but nonetheless. Grateful Voronezh residents immortalized the exploits of Soviet soldiers with memorial plaques on the streets of the city, which were named after heroes. That's all, perpetuating the memory of the fighters is over. Let me note that everything is in accordance with the canons.

Nothing, as they say, foreshadowed...

Honestly, I was aware, but when I approached the monument, I saw THREE names. But I knew that there were more of them. This is a kind of sabotage from Voronezh tour guides, as I understand it. I apologize, but I had to dig up the fourth name. Lazar Dzotov.


Lazar Dzotov, a native of North Ossetia, died on August 15, 1942 in the battles for Voronezh. He simply died in the attack, as tens of thousands of soldiers and officers died on Voronezh land. True, eyewitness accounts have been preserved about how he died after the battle. Worthy, like a real son of the Caucasus.


In that battle, Dzotov (the commander of the machine gun platoon) led his machine gunners along with the advancing infantrymen, covering them and clearing the way for them. In the attack he was wounded in the chest. His soldiers, who clearly respected their commander, rushed to his aid, but Dzotov drove them forward to do their job, while he stayed behind. After the battle, the soldiers returned for the commander, but he was already dead. In his hand, Dzotov clutched his Komsomol card with a note enclosed in it, which became known as the “Testament of Lieutenant Dzotov.”


That's all. Dzotov was not awarded any awards, let’s face it, like most of the 400 thousand Soviet soldiers who died in the battles for Voronezh. He simply fulfilled his duty to the people, giving his life for freedom. Dot. Respect and memory!

All this is taken from the materials of the most famous Voronezh chronicler of the Great Patriotic War, participant in the war, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Ivanovich Grinko.


Alexander Ivanovich (1915 - 1991) devoted most of his life to perpetuating the military exploits of soldiers and officers on Voronezh soil.

Author of the books: “Two Hundred Heroic Days” (Voronezh, 1965), “Heroes of the Voronezh Land” (Voronezh, 1965; together with G.F. Ulaev), “Soldiers in Stone Overcoats” (Voronezh, 1969), “In the Battles for Voronezh "(Voronezh, 1985), "Line of Military Glory" (Voronezh, 1988) and others.

A street in the city of Voronezh is named after Grinko, and a memorial plaque was installed on house No. 42 on Moiseev Street.
The description of the end of Dzotov’s life is taken specifically from Grinko’s book “In the Battles for Voronezh.” And from 1942 to 2012 (approximately) everything was exactly as Grinko described.


And in 2012, a whole campaign began, as a result of which Dzotov’s name appeared on the monument, along with the names of Abyzov, Bovkun and Vavilov. Moreover, a street in Voronezh was named after Dzotov.


And the top of everything is the bust. Which, we note, was awarded only to Twice Heroes of the Soviet Union and now to Heroes of Russia.

Not only is it overkill, but moreover, it is an obvious forgery.

Now, while the historical investigation is underway, which Voronezh historians are helping me do, one thing can be said: there is a distortion of history for the sake of a certain group of “respected people” from the Ossetian diaspora.


Indeed, back in 2015, the chairman of the Ossetian community of the Voronezh region, Uruzmag Bestaev, complained that:

“The site for the monument has been allocated. This is a triangle on the Right Bank in front of the Vogresovsky Bridge. But there are no funds for its installation yet, because of the crisis. I contacted the Ministry of Defense, maybe they will help with the monument. It would also be nice that Lazar Dzotov, at least 73 years later, was posthumously awarded the title of Hero of Russia. After all, this is a huge injustice. A man accomplished such a feat, but he was not awarded the title, a monument was not erected and a memorial plaque was not hung. We are not asking for this monument for ourselves. All Voronezh residents need it. We need to install it and constantly bring schoolchildren there by bus and tell them about Dzotov’s feat!”

Link to the original source at the end of the article.

You see, a man accomplished SUCH a feat, but nothing to him: not the title of Hero, nothing. What feat did Dzotov accomplish? Why is the respected person Uruzmag Bestaev demanding the hero of Russia?

You know, there really is a Sabbath of blood there. The North Ossetian media simply indulged in publishing unscientific but fantastic stories about Dzotov’s feat. A certain Laura Dzotova was the first to start. Then the others joined in. It had already reached the point of ugly insanity, they began to write that the mortally wounded Dzotov wrote his note with a birch branch, knocked down by a bullet and his own blood. And then he still fired at the bunker with a machine gun, then ran up to it with a grenade...

There will be a detailed analysis. There's a lot of interesting stuff there, if it weren't all so sad.


Is this written on a branch? Blood? On a "piece of paper"? In my opinion, with a chemical pencil, on a piece of paper from a notebook that every commander should have had. And it was clearly written in a calm atmosphere, before the battle. Many people did this back then.

For myself, I still cannot understand one thing: why was it necessary to slander the memory of an absolutely honest soldier so much with fiction? Who was clearly loved and respected by his fighters, despite his youth? He really doesn’t need this bust, or the plaque, or the mention. Memory is the best reward.

No, this bust had to be made in Ossetia, brought to Voronezh and installed here with honors. Without legal grounds, but who would refuse such “respected people”?

And they need it all just like air, “respected people.” So that Voronezh schoolchildren are taken by bus to “their” soldier, so that they know to whom they owe everything. Ossetian Dzotov. Vavilov, Abyzov, Bovkun are not entitled to busts. They don’t have “respected people” in their family, they have only people’s memory for them, and that’s all.

Total. What we have?


1. An incomprehensible structure at the entrance to the city, which is now being passed off as a “monument to Glory.”

2. The memory of Katyusha has been completely wiped from the streets.

3. It is absolutely illegal to honor with the perpetuation of memory. Those who so hastily stamped Dzotov’s name on the monument and erected a bust of him would do well to familiarize themselves with Decree of the President of Russia No. 665 of November 19, 2021. Yes, the Decree is more liberal than Soviet statutes, but everything that was done by the Voronezh authorities and “respected people” from the Ossetian diaspora was done illegally and contrary to this Decree.

4. A ten-year war in Rossosh to remove monuments to Italian fascism from Russian soil, in which individual patriots fight with Voronezh officials and “respected people” only now from Italy.

Against this background, the celebration of the “liberation of Voronezh” simply looks like a historical inaccuracy. As well as “the birthplace of the New Year”.

In general, things are going so-so in the city of military glory, Voronezh. Year after year, the President talks about preserving, respecting and enhancing memory, but here there are complete freemen and “respected people” who, without the President, decide to whom we erect monuments and to whom we remove them.

P.S. While I was poking around in all this, an SOS arrived from Lipetsk. And there the authorities decided to do something weird. So to be continued, as I understand it, no matter what city you take, the same thing is going on.

Links:
Order of the NPO of the USSR of 28.07.1942 No. 227
On behalf of the governor, a monument to the pilots who died in the Second World War was reconstructed in the Voronezh region
Voronezh. Streets of winners. Lazar Dzotov
173 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. +29
      1 March 2024 08: 24
      Andrey, what is he doing on Victory Day, look at the mausoleum and everything will become clear
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +28
          1 March 2024 11: 08
          Patriots of Russia are those who have done something useful for Russia and its people, and who stand for the best for Russia and its people. And all this was and is only among supporters of the USSR and Lenin. And not those who, during the Soviet period, pretended to be those who benefited them, including communists and their supporters, and in their anti-Soviet period pretended to be those who benefited them, including “great lovers of humanity” in slandering the Soviet period, and patriots Russia.
          1. -2
            3 March 2024 10: 56
            Quote: tatra
            And all this was and is only among supporters of the USSR and Lenin

            Visit the guys at SVO, talk to them. You will see that the ideas of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation about socialism, to put it mildly, are not in the first place. And there are not many Lenin supporters there. And there are no communist battalions there.... In any case, I have not heard of any.
            1. -1
              3 March 2024 12: 08
              It would be strange if the ideas of socialism and the USSR were among those who are fighting for anti-Soviet power
              1. 0
                3 March 2024 13: 20
                Quote: tatra
                It would be strange if the ideas of socialism and the USSR were among those who are fighting for anti-Soviet power

                The guys there are not fighting for power, but for their families, for you, among other things. And you are so narrow-minded in looking for enemies that you even forgot to thank them. If you weren’t taught to say “thank you” before, then today you shouldn’t even try. I will only say that the attempt to privatize patriotism in favor of a self-defeated party speaks of ignorance of the history of one’s country and an inability to analyze current events.
                1. -1
                  3 March 2024 14: 44
                  Just don't push me with propaganda. And no one ran away from the CPSU, this is your benefactor, the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, whom you imposed on Russia and the Russian people. President Yeltsin banned the CPSU on November 6, 1991.
                  1. +2
                    3 March 2024 14: 49
                    Quote: tatra
                    , this is your benefactor, the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, whom you imposed on Russia and the Russian people by the President

                    You type without regaining consciousness. I don’t even give you minuses in response to yours, unhealthy people are not able to answer for their actions.... winked
            2. +2
              4 March 2024 00: 16
              You won’t see the volunteer battalions of United, Russia, Liberal Democratic Party, “new people” and other parties in the North Military District zone either!!!
              The bureaucrats sit in their warm offices, cut budgets and “play” elections.....
              1. +2
                4 March 2024 04: 33
                Quote: assault
                You won’t see the volunteer battalions of United, Russia, Liberal Democratic Party, “new people” and other parties in the North Military District zone either!!!

                When you enter into a discussion, understand the topic and gist of it. And then you hit your finger in .... the sky. wink
        2. +31
          1 March 2024 12: 12
          Quote: Ingigerda_Olafson
          The time has not yet come for the demolition of the vampire's tomb in Russia.

          What evil words, if the mausoleum is a “symbol of the Soviet regime”, so is VDNKh, and BAM, in general, everything that was inherited from the space and nuclear superpower. If the Provisional Government had remained in 1917, with the pro-Western Gaidars and Chubais of that era, it is unlikely that Russia would have survived then, without the Soviet margin of safety.
          If someone is rushing to the “tomb” and Christian traditions, then first it is necessary to bury, according to Christian customs, all the holy relics that the priests tore into pieces and took away for display to the believers.
          1. +21
            1 March 2024 13: 19
            Quote: Per se.
            First, it is necessary to bury, according to Christian customs, all the holy relics that the priests tore into pieces and took away for demonstration to the believers.

            So it may turn out to be awkward, the priests with holy relics have too many saints, like over ribs. and according to the “hands”... That is, it turns out that if Lenin lies in a “set” in the Mausoleum, this is “Bolshevik barbarism” (just looking at modern “communists”, one cannot dare to call those people this word), but if Believing Christians dismembered the corpse of their “saint” into many parts, and transport them to different cities and villages to demonstrate to believers - this is a great blessing!!!! Shoot yourself and fall...
          2. -14
            1 March 2024 13: 40
            so first we must bury, according to Christian customs, all the holy relics that the priests tore into pieces and took away for display to the believers.
            How funny are you? wassat What you so rudely called with the obscene word “torn apart” are the very Christian customs to which you are trying to appeal. By the way, they are almost two thousand years old. feel In general, when raising any topic, you need to first study the essence of the issue, so as not to look uh... let's say, incompetent. Yes
            1. +5
              1 March 2024 17: 39
              Quote: Shkodnik65
              and there are those very Christian customs to which you are trying to appeal. By the way, they almost two thousand years.

              In Rus', Christianity, imposed by Prince Vladimir, has existed for a little over 1000 years. It is clear from everything that Christianity is a foreign religion for Rus'. But they had their own religion, their own old Gods. And what happened to the believers in the old gods? Do you think everyone happily abandoned them? No, old beliefs were burned out with fire and sword. Together with those who remained faithful to the old gods. And the losses of Rus' from the imposition of Christianity were enormous at that time. In fact, Christianity occupied Rus'.
              1. 0
                2 March 2024 13: 02
                But the patriarch believes that the introduction of Christianity in Rus' saved the latter from lack of spirituality, however, just as current practice saves from the atheistic practice of demonic power
                1. +1
                  2 March 2024 15: 03
                  Quote: Georgy K-219
                  But the patriarch believes that the introduction of Christianity in Rus' saved the latter from lack of spirituality

                  If only he hadn't advertised Christianity! He feeds on it, and feeds well, including mastering the budget pie.
                  But what was Christianity at the beginning of its development? Something like Jehovah's Witnesses. They walked around the world and imposed their fairy tales. At this time, all peoples had their own beliefs. Why on earth did they have to change them? Some people drove these storytellers away, others took pity on them, mistaking them for the poor. They regretted losing their gods. And killing people because of their faith did not stop with the adoption of Christianity. How many of them were due to rejection of another faith. And all kinds of patriarchs drove their flock to these wars.
                  The so-called Christian commandments were written by people many years later after the death of the invented son of God? Who prevented these commandments from being spread without tying them to religion? But, in any case, no one follows these commandments 100%. Neither the patriarch, nor the priests, nor the believers. If someone created a new non-Christian religion, supported it by the governments of different countries, and in a few generations Christianity and all its followers would disappear. Will remain only in history. So don’t think that Christianity is the ultimate truth.
                2. 0
                  2 March 2024 15: 08
                  Quote: Georgy K-219
                  current practice eliminates the atheistic practice of demonic power

                  Did I understand correctly that the practice of the patriarch imposes faith in Christ on the current demonic authorities? What if it weren’t for the patriarch, would the government have shown its demonism to the fullest?
              2. 0
                4 March 2024 09: 44
                In Rus', Christianity, imposed by Prince Vladimir, has existed for a little over 1000 years.
                Do you yourself read what you write about? That is, Christianity has existed in Rus' for more than 1000 years; almost immediately after the formation of Russian statehood, Christianity became the state religion. Once again, I draw your attention to the fact that almost the entire existence of Russian statehood is associated with Christianity. Did the Slavic tribes have their own deities? Well, yes, every village has its own. And the stronger tribes, conquering the weaker ones, imposed their “gods” on them with fire and sword. Those were the times and it was stupid and funny to talk about something being forced by fire and sword. It is also unclear what “losses from the imposition of Christianity” you deign to talk about unfoundedly. You, dear one, do not know the history of ancient Rus'. Just so you know, sacrifices were made to those ancient gods. HUMAN SACRIFICES, so what kind of losses you are talking about is not at all clear. And one last thing. Read the 10 commandments of Christianity and explain to me what’s wrong with it? I answer in advance - nothing. So it’s okay that your government of the councils simply copied them, slightly modified them and called them what? That's right - the Code of the Builder of Communism. I really want to give you a description, but I can’t, the moderators won’t let you through, which is a pity. Learn the history of your country - you won't look stupid. Then, let me take my leave laughing
                1. -2
                  4 March 2024 19: 47
                  I read not only my comments, but also books, and at one time, textbooks. I am not a historian, but it is unlikely that I have received less knowledge about the history of ancient Rus' than others. The available knowledge is sufficient to draw conclusions.
                  The fact that Christianity has existed in Rus' for more than 1000 years, having become the state religion, does not contradict the fact that these fairy tales were composed by completely different storytellers almost 1000 years earlier, subsequently brought to Rus' and forcibly imposed on the Russians through the destruction of those who disagreed. And if someone didn’t even think about it, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And who would talk about human casualties. Even if we do not take into account these mass casualties during the period of the imposition of Christianity, we can safely say that almost all wars were due to religious differences or religion was used to justify wars.
                  None of the believers, including religious leaders, fully observe the commandments of Christianity that you extol. I seriously doubt that they were observed by any significant number of people before.
                  I even doubt that you have thoughtfully read Christian records, otherwise you would not have said that there is almost no difference with the Code of the Builder of Communism. The difference is very serious.
                  1. +1
                    5 March 2024 10: 14
                    Dear VasAndr, are you by any chance a politician? If not, then think about whether you should work hard in this field. Believe me, you will succeed. It’s so skillful to jump off the topic, write about nothing, ignore questions, you need to be able to do this, it’s worth a lot.
                    Let's start with the fact that I am a historian. More precisely, a history teacher with a diploma in social studies. So I’m in the know, because I studied the classics of Marxism-Leninism very closely, this is my profession, and I repeat that there is no fundamental difference between the Christian commandments and the Code of the Builder of Communism. If you find a serious difference, then explain what it is.
                    As for believers fulfilling the dogmas of Christianity, firstly, you are not familiar with all believers and even hypothetically cannot know what and how they do it, and secondly, real believers try not to show at all what and how they do it - this is a requirement of the Gospel, that’s all do in secret.
                    Regarding forced Christianization and religious wars. You seemed to me to be a literate person, i.e. who can read. I have already responded to your message, but if necessary I will repeat it. Anyone who is stronger, conquering the weaker, imposes his own order, Christianity has nothing to do with it, absolutely. Christians did this, Muslims, pagans, atheists, anyone did (and still do). This is an axiom. As for the mass casualties during the Christianization of Rus' - where does the information come from? There is not a single reliable written source about those events in nature. Everything that is written was written much later and has no documentary evidence. These are all your wishes.
                    Further, 1000 years ago, Russians did not exist, there were various Slavic tribes: Polyans, Drevlyans, Vyatichi, Rodimich, Ulichi, Northerners, etc. Russians as a nation appeared only in the 13th century, i.e. when Christianity was in full swing in Rus'. That is, Russians have ALWAYS been Christians. belay A curtain. laughing
                    And one last thing. Yes, I'm a Christian. Don't you believe in God? Yes to your health. I believe that there is a God, you believe that there is no God. I believe that I was created by the Supreme Mind, and you came from a monkey. To each his own. I'm not going to prove anything to you. God doesn't require proof at all. You can only believe in him.
                    Then, let me take my leave hi
                    1. -1
                      5 March 2024 15: 27
                      Quote: Shkodnik65
                      So skillfully jumping off topic, writing about nothing, ignoring questions

                      Bravo, it’s good that you’ve done such a great job of modern politicians.
                      Quote: Shkodnik65
                      studied the classics of Marxism-Leninism very closely

                      Frankly, you have studied poorly, and not only Marxism-Leninism, if you believe in God and what is connected with the divine perception of the world. I believe in a person who understands the world, and not in Jewish fairy tales. “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before Me.” This is the first commandment with a clear hint for whom it was written. And what part of the code of the builder of communism does the 1st commandment echo? Apparently with the fact that communism will lead humanity out of the slavery of exploitation and religious darkness. God, therefore, led the people out of Egyptian slavery, but slavery itself allows and considers it normal: “And the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God: on it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, neither your manservant nor your maidservant", "Do not covet your neighbor's house; You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, [nor his field,] neither his slave nor his slave, neither his ox, nor his donkey, [nor any of his livestock,] anything that is your neighbor." And where in the code of the UK is slavery allowed? In your opinion, there is no fundamental difference in this?
                      Second Commandment: “You shall not make for yourself any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth below, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I am the Lord your God, a jealous God who punishes children for the iniquity of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me, and showing mercy to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments.” What is it about? Do not make an idol for yourself, including God (who is in heaven above). A wonderful commandment. But man is weak, he has made God his idol... How does the commandment in this part echo the KSK? Apparently, with the fact that a person can be respected for his deeds, for conscientious work for the good of society, with the requirement of “intransigence towards injustice, parasitism, dishonesty, careerism, money-grubbing”?
                      I agree that some commandments overlap with the code, but criminal , moreover, with the Criminal Code of any civilized country.
                      Well, okay, let me not understand something due to my lack of education... Give an example and explain to me the coincidences.
                    2. -1
                      5 March 2024 16: 36
                      Quote: Shkodnik65
                      real believers try not to show at all what and how they do

                      You are talking about non-covetousness, which is in the gospel, but not in the commandments. Apparently this is why some believers flaunt their worship of the golden calf? Including the head of the church.
                      Quote: Shkodnik65
                      This is a requirement of the Gospel, to do everything in secret

                      I hope this is about good deeds, and not about everyone: they say, you can steal, but, most importantly, quietly, secretly.
                      Quote: Shkodnik65
                      Regarding forced Christianization and religious wars. ... Anyone who is stronger, conquering the weaker, imposes his own order, Christianity has nothing to do with it, absolutely. Christians did this, Muslims, pagans, atheists, anyone did (and still do). This is an axiom.

                      Sounds like an excuse. It is strange that from the lips of a believer and one who keeps the commandments...
                      Quote: Shkodnik65
                      As for the mass casualties during the Christianization of Rus' - where does the information come from?

                      I didn't come up with this. I read it a long time ago, I don’t remember where. I also read how representatives of one branch of Christianity slaughtered representatives of another. I know a little about the schism in the Orthodox Church. What, no one even heard how Catholics “baptized” the natives of America? And after this, one can doubt that those who brought Christianity to Rus' with the support of local rulers did not massacre those who disagreed with changing the beliefs of the pagans? Or were there no dissenters? The fact that there are no documentary sources does not mean that this did not happen. A lot of time has passed, the sources might not have been reached, maybe they will still be found if they, as compromising evidence on the church, were not completely destroyed by the clergy themselves.
                      Quote: Shkodnik65
                      1000 years ago Russians did not exist

                      You contradict yourself. Write here about Slavic tribes. Don’t you think that modern Russians are also descendants of those tribes? The fact that Russians united into a single state less than 1000 years ago does not mean that Russians do not have descendants from older centuries.
                      Quote: Shkodnik65
                      I believe that I was created by the Supreme Mind, and you came from a monkey.

                      It's funny... I thought that everyone came from their parents.
                      But it is clear that you are talking about long-standing descendants. So, there is no data about the existence of God, except for fairy tales. And, as you wrote, “You can only believe in him.” But the fact is that the ancestor of man, similar to a monkey, but not necessarily the ancestor of modern monkeys, evolved, developed and further developed. This is research data from scientists. What's happening now? Some continue to develop, some are frozen in development, and some are actively degrading. Let's not be among the last. Let's continue human development.
              3. 0
                5 March 2024 04: 37
                Quote: VasAndr
                . And the losses of Rus' from the imposition of Christianity were enormous at that time. In fact, Christianity occupied Rus'.

                You are strange people.... And you imagined a strange society, to which only one prince can impose everything alien.... It was crazy to impose it on the prince, and imposed it on millions - amazing logic! And where were they looking at that time?

                Some people have troubles exclusively from idiots, thieves and traitors, while others - look at that!! From Christianity, from Marxism, from the State Planning Committee and collective farms.... Some people benefit from everything, but others get in the way of their eggs, not like Christianity..... People of great intelligence!! And for sure, everyone else can’t understand them with their minds laughing
                1. -2
                  5 March 2024 04: 50
                  Quote: ivan2022
                  And for sure, everyone else can’t understand them with their minds

                  Mind does not understand Russia,
                  Arshin is not common to measure ...
                  She has a special
                  You can only believe in Russia.
                  1. 0
                    5 March 2024 04: 54
                    Quote: mordvin xnumx
                    Quote: ivan2022
                    And for sure, everyone else can’t understand them with their minds

                    Mind does not understand Russia,
                    Arshin is not common to measure ...
                    She has a special
                    You can only believe in Russia.

                    Russia and its first of two disasters are something completely different.
                    1. -2
                      5 March 2024 04: 59
                      Quote: ivan2022
                      Russia and Russian fools are something completely different.

                      And who can live well in Rus'?
                      Roman said: to the landowner,
                      Demyan said: to the official,
                      Luke said: ass.
                      Merchants to the fat belly! -
                      Said the brothers Gubina,
                      Ivan and Mitrodor.
                      Old Man groined with Pakhom
                      And he said, looking into the earth:
                      To the noble boyar,
                      To the Minister of the Tsar.
                      But Prov said to the king ...
          3. +8
            1 March 2024 15: 54
            Quote: Per se.
            What evil words

            It looks like he has a brain maidan. We see what rabid decommunization leads to in Ukraine.
            1. +6
              1 March 2024 17: 22
              Quote: guest
              What does frantic decommunization lead to?

              Towards Russophobia.
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        3. +9
          1 March 2024 15: 51
          Quote: Ingigerda_Olafson
          That's why they close it so as not to irritate it patriots of Russia.

          Do you think the Vlasovites are Russian patriots?
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. +2
              2 March 2024 01: 13
              Quote: Ingigerda_Olafson
              No. Vlasovites are communists.

              It looks like you have a maidan of the brain, how else can you write such nonsense.
        4. +8
          1 March 2024 17: 34
          The mausoleum is a symbol of the Soviet regime.
          And the Motherland, as a symbol of the Soviet regime in Kyiv, irritated the “patriots” of Ukraine, so they decided to slightly reconstruct it
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            1. +1
              2 March 2024 08: 19
              And decide and clear...Everything will be. Take a pill and calm down..
            2. +3
              2 March 2024 08: 25
              Quote: Ingigerda_Olafson
              I would like to remind you that Russia is no longer your country, but ours.

              Irina Gennadievna, why did Russia become not our country, but “yours”? Haven’t you played enough with monarchism, with longing for the collapsed empire? Or do you still believe that your sworn Anglo-Saxon “partners” will return you to their “sandbox”?
              Lenin did not destroy a great country, he created it, and it was not the Bolsheviks who forced the mediocre tsar to abdicate the throne, just as the February Revolution was not their business. How can you not understand that the West does not need a strong Russia, neither with the Tsar, nor with the democrats, of course, especially with the communists, who made it a superpower.
              Will you decide how and when to clean up Red Square? Is this with those who are renegade changelings who betrayed the Soviet Union and the CPSU?
              It is not you who will decide this, henpecked Westerners and its agents. There still remains to be a reassessment of the entire criminal privatization according to Chubais, and a legal verdict on the anti-constitutional coup d'etat in 1991, when not only the Constitution was violated, but also the results of the national referendum for the preservation of the Soviet Union.
              For more than 30 years of your bourgeoisie, Russia survived due to the Soviet safety margin, the foundations of Soviet science and technology. Your oligarchs have not created anything of their own in principle, except for new palaces and personal yachts comparable to cruisers; everything else is a sale of raw materials and Soviet military developments.
              Even the SVO, which is already 2 years old, after chewing snot for 8 years, with the suffering of the people of Donbass, and being cheated by “partners” in contracts, is much less effective than the Soviet Finnish company, which was considered unsuccessful, especially the complete liberation of Ukraine by the Soviet army in a comparable period.
              Every cloud has a silver lining, now there is something to compare with, both the “democracy” of the USA and those “radishes”, former members of the CPSU, who were only red from above. Careerists-opportunists identified themselves as their overseas masters of world capitalism. It is unlikely that strong Russia needs such people, and it is unlikely that those who betrayed once will not betray again as soon as the wind changes.
              It is not for you to equip Red Square and revive a great country, which can only be great in a pole of socialism independent of the West.
      2. +2
        1 March 2024 15: 44
        ABOUT! Already, the second article in a row about “enemies of the people”. Smart people, a couple of years ago, said that everything would end in 37: “witch hunts”, “enemies of the people” and other “charms” with smearing the forehead with brilliant green... There is nothing new under the sun... Always, helpful slaves want to curry favor with their zeal before the master, expecting that the master will remember them for their efforts and will not flog them in the stable and rot in the pit like others... Well, well. Alas, everything once again proves that history teaches nothing to those who do not want to learn, who simply do not want to learn in history lessons... Alas...
        1. 0
          1 March 2024 17: 49
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          Always, helpful slaves want to curry favor with their zeal before the master, expecting that the master will remember them for their efforts and will not be flogged in the stable and rot in a pit, like others...

          It is clear from everything that you have curried favor with the current government and continue to serve it. Judge others by yourself, denying them the right to have other goals and ideals.
      3. 0
        3 March 2024 13: 10
        Quote: g0ryachevnn
        on Victory Day, look at the mausoleum and everything will become clear

        Yes, the troops at the parade give a military salute to the country’s leadership and the people in the stands under the Kremlin wall, but not to a specific idea, which the communists squandered. But compare how the Soviet authorities treated the soldiers who fought in the direction of the CPSU in Afghanistan with the attitude of the authorities today towards the participants of the Northern Military District. For a couple of years at the beginning of the Afghan events, we did not hear anything at all from the authorities about this war. Today, the soldiers of the Northern Military District and their families are treated so kindly by the authorities as we never dreamed of. And many Afghan veterans heard from government officials “we didn’t send you there and don’t owe you anything.” The sight of the mausoleum at the parade does not compensate for this disregard for the soldier. And note that the current government, not the Soviet one, still did not demolish Lenin’s mausoleum (who, by the way, together with Stalin gave Ukraine those territories for which battles are taking place today. What I mean is that everyone in history screws up. And the Soviet leaders including). I say all this because I believe that the Russia of yesterday cannot be contrasted with the Russia of today. It is necessary to reveal mistakes in the past in order to take them into account in the future, and not to prove that yesterday’s party members of the CPSU should be canonized and their contemporaries anathematized.
  2. +15
    1 March 2024 06: 05
    The movement to distort history, which was launched earlier, is moving by inertia. No one has yet created an obstacle to stop this movement.
    1. +11
      1 March 2024 12: 20
      "the traffic stops..."
      And on what basis do you think so? Putin is ashamed of the Soviet period of history. That’s why the Mausoleum is covered with plywood, and therefore the statement about galoshes. If only they considered him one of their own, bourgeois! All this is being done for partners, not for Russia. People against migrants! The people are against the white flag! As long as Putin rules, there will be people in leadership positions who hate the Soviet past and are ready to march under the white flag. Such is the pop, such is the arrival!
      1. -6
        1 March 2024 13: 08
        Putin is ashamed of the Soviet period of history

        Why did you decide that? Are you a telepath?
        Even a small boss must regularly do something that he personally does not like.
        And politics in general is the art of compromise.
        If it weren’t for Putin, Lenin’s body would have been thrown out of the mausoleum long ago.
        Yeltsin was already standing at the sarcophagus with a crowbar.

        But I wouldn’t stand on the podium with the inscription Lenin.

        By the way, it was your Bolsheviks who threw Stalin’s body out of the mausoleum.
        If I were president, I would erect a monument to Joseph Vissarionich on the site of the mausoleum; he definitely deserved it, so that posterity would remember. But here's the thing. Stalin is already remembered by the whole world without inscriptions on the stands, without monuments on every square of every fly... And the question arises: why uncover the mausoleum? What would they remember?
        1. +8
          1 March 2024 13: 25
          “But I wouldn’t stand on the podium with the inscription Lenin...”
          Well, education must be received, not purchased. Or did the gateway teach you too?
        2. +4
          1 March 2024 18: 09
          Quote: bk316
          I would erect a monument to Joseph Vissarionich on the site of the mausoleum; he definitely deserved it, so that posterity would remember.

          You, apparently, have a positive attitude towards Stalin, so it is strange that you contrast Lenin and Stalin, who were like-minded people. Stalin repeated all his life that he was a student of Lenin. Read the works of Lenin and Stalin and see for yourself.
          Find a research film in a search engine: “The secret of the century has been revealed. Why isn’t Lenin buried?” and perhaps you will change your position on Lenin's mausoleum.
        3. +1
          2 March 2024 20: 49
          “And the question arises: why uncover the mausoleum? So that they remember what?”
          Well, at least where they threw the banners of the defeated enemy. the same enemy who are now still partners
      2. -1
        2 March 2024 20: 46
        “Putin is ashamed of the Soviet period of history. That’s why he covers the Mausoleum with plywood, and therefore the statement about galoshes. If only he was considered one of his own, bourgeois.”
        I wonder if this year on May 9th the mausoleum will be covered with cardboard, or will Putin instill patriotism among the people with the appearance of the mausoleum?
    2. -2
      1 March 2024 12: 59
      No one has yet created an obstacle to stop this movement.

      But it’s time.
    3. +3
      1 March 2024 20: 09
      What kind of “story” is this? Written by Schlozer and Miller? And then like the historian Klyuchevsky? Or the “Napoleonaphile” Tarle, also a truthful historian? Or edited by the censorship of the special agencies of the ICGB? There is a TacticMedia group on YouTube where they are trying, based on discovered sources from declassified funds and from the funds of Western countries, to describe the events of history and, most importantly, military and world history. However, the main emphasis is on the events of the Second World War on the territory of the USSR. A lot is said about military equipment, methods of its use, etc. I advise you to go and have a look. Very interesting.
  3. +20
    1 March 2024 06: 09
    Very relevant article! Thanks to the author! Most recently, I took part in the revival of our factory museum. When we got to the Second World War (there are a lot of materials), suddenly I heard from the boss... why is it all for? The war has long passed... the young people are not interested... Only after going to a higher-ranking commander was it allowed not to remove the military topic! So, not only such things, as the author indicated, happen in the highest echelons...
  4. +43
    1 March 2024 06: 10
    A tale about slow-witted boyars and a correct tsar. One thing that is not clear is why on May 9, the mausoleum of V.I. Lenin is boarded up with plywood from year to year. It has become a tradition. The President does not know about this?
    1. +25
      1 March 2024 07: 12
      Quote: parusnik
      Doesn't the President know about this?

      Yes, he has something to do with it! Does he work with a hammer and plywood? It's all the workers' fault. There is no government for them!

      After all, every year it’s the same thing! It seems to me that there is nothing worse than this against our memory on a day like May 9. Still, the Mausoleum is a symbol of Victory. But someone wants to deprive us of this.
      1. +13
        1 March 2024 07: 44
        Quote: Stas157
        Quote: parusnik
        Doesn't the President know about this?

        Yes, he has something to do with it! Does he work with a hammer and plywood? It's all the workers' fault. There is no government for them!

        After all, every year it’s the same thing! It seems to me that there is nothing worse than this against our memory on a day like May 9. Still, the Mausoleum is a symbol of Victory. But someone wants to deprive us of this.

        And the 1941 Parade was also hosted by the country’s leadership, headed by I.V. Stalin, from the Mausoleum of V.I. Lenin.
      2. +16
        1 March 2024 08: 17
        Agree. The mausoleum is part of our history, and history is integral, either it exists or it does not. Take away a part and there will be no whole.

        What, in fact, is happening.
      3. 0
        2 March 2024 20: 51
        “Still, the Mausoleum is a symbol of Victory. But someone wants to deprive us of this.”
        someone is thereby rewriting history, but we won’t allow this. and Putin says so too
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +14
      1 March 2024 08: 18
      “One thing is not clear, why on May 9, the mausoleum of V.I. Lenin is boarded up with plywood from year to year.”

      They are afraid of comparisons.
    4. -13
      1 March 2024 08: 45
      Excuse me, but what does this ziggurat to the Victory have to do with it? So that the celestials from above would look at the people passing by?
    5. -25
      1 March 2024 09: 21
      Quote: parusnik
      .One thing is not clear, why on May 9, the mausoleum of V.I. Lenin is boarded up with plywood from year to year

      Because the leader of the world proletariat has nothing to do with May 9. If the professional military experts of the Russian Empire had not been destroyed, then there would have been no defeat of the 41st and subsequent boilers. If leading specialists at any plant are now put under the knife, how many years will it take for production to be restored?
      1. +15
        1 March 2024 10: 20
        "If the professional military experts of the Russian Empire had not been destroyed, then there would have been no defeat of the 41st and subsequent boilers"

        A very controversial statement. Military experts of the Russian Empire lost the First World War and also ended up in cauldrons, but the Red Army won the Second World War.
        1. -14
          1 March 2024 13: 37
          Quote: S.Z.
          A very controversial statement. Military experts of the Russian Empire lost the First World War and also ended up in cauldrons, but the Red Army won the Second World War.

          Learn history and do not write nonsense.
          1. +8
            1 March 2024 15: 20
            Quote: S.Z.
            A very controversial statement. Military experts of the Russian Empire lost the First World War and also ended up in cauldrons, but the Red Army won the Second World War.

            Learn history and do not write nonsense.

            And the same to you, dear man. You should not adjust the facts to your own worldview - both the facts, the worldview, and the intellect of its bearer suffer :)
      2. +11
        1 March 2024 12: 22
        the leader of the world proletariat has nothing to do with May 9.
        Kanesh, the modern Russian Federation won the Great Patriotic War and on November 7, 1941, the Russian Armed Forces held a parade on Red Square in honor of the liberation of Moscow from the Poles in 1612, and on the podium of the mausoleum that came from nowhere, was the current leadership of the country. They write all sorts of nonsense, Lenin founded the USSR, won the USSR in World War II.The mausoleum of V.I. Lenin is boarded up with plywood from year to year.They don’t know the measures in anything. It’s time to cover up this Soviet lawlessness.
      3. +8
        1 March 2024 15: 58
        Quote: Silhouette
        If the professional military experts of the Russian Empire had not been destroyed

        Where were these military experts during WWI? I don’t even remember about the war of 1905.
        1. -11
          1 March 2024 16: 06
          They were in their place. At the front too. If the Bolsheviks had not concluded the shameful Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in order to stay in power, then a year later Russia would have been among the winners along with England and France.
          1. +9
            1 March 2024 16: 09
            Quote: Silhouette
            They were in their place. At the front too.

            Well, actually, the coup was carried out back in February without the participation of the Bolsheviks. And in 1905, who stopped them? There were no Bolsheviks then.
            1. -6
              1 March 2024 16: 17
              There is not a single country in the world that in its history has always won everyone in wars.
              1. +4
                1 March 2024 18: 30
                Quote: Silhouette
                There is not a single country in the world that in its history has always won everyone in wars.

                What about the USSR?
                The USSR won the civil war. The interventionists were expelled. Khasan, Khalkhin Gol, Finnish, Great Patriotic War, Japan - victory of the USSR. What don't I know?
                Only internal enemies destroyed the USSR.
                1. -2
                  1 March 2024 19: 06
                  Poland. Afghanistan. Finland.
                  1. +6
                    1 March 2024 20: 07
                    When did they lose to Poland? In 1919-21? At that time the USSR had not yet been created.
                    Find out more about Finland. When was the loss? I do not know this.
                    In Afghanistan, the limited contingent of the Soviet Army was not defeated. He was taken out. And the reason was not the ability of the Army, but the betrayal of the country’s leadership.
                    Have something to argue?
                    1. 0
                      1 March 2024 20: 09
                      Quote: VasAndr
                      The USSR won the civil war.


                      Quote: VasAndr
                      At that time the USSR had not yet been created.
                      1. +3
                        1 March 2024 20: 15
                        I admit it. Officially, the Civil War ended before the formation of the USSR.
                        But this fact does not make the USSR the losing side.
                      2. 0
                        1 March 2024 20: 36
                        Which side lost then? Were Budyonny and Tukhachevsky aliens?
                    2. 0
                      1 March 2024 20: 30
                      Quote: VasAndr
                      In Afghanistan, no one defeated the limited contingent of the Soviet Army

                      Well, no one defeated US troops in Vietnam either. And in Afghanistan. However, for some reason it is believed that the United States lost these wars.
                      Quote: VasAndr
                      Find out more about Finland. When was the loss?

                      When Helsinki was not taken and Kuusinen’s government remained out of work.
                      1. +2
                        1 March 2024 22: 01
                        Quote: Silhouette
                        Well, no one defeated US troops in Vietnam either. And in Afghanistan. However, for some reason it is believed that the United States lost these wars.

                        The USSR fought with the Afghan mujahideen, who sought power, but did not come to power immediately after the departure of the limited Soviet contingent.
                        The United States fought with the current government in both Afghanistan and Vietnam, and the same government remained there after the Americans fled. Do you notice the difference?
                        In Finland, the USSR achieved its goal, moving the border away from Leningrad. But the USSR did not officially announce the task of replacing the Finnish government, and did not set it. Maybe Kuusinen himself hoped for this? I fully admit it. In this case, he lost, but not the USSR.
                      2. -2
                        2 March 2024 09: 17
                        Quote: VasAndr
                        The USSR fought with the Afghan mujahideen, who sought power, but did not come to power immediately after the departure of the limited Soviet contingent.

                        Learn history. You are amazingly ignorant.
                        Quote: VasAndr
                        The United States fought with the current government in both Afghanistan and Vietnam, and the same government remained there after the Americans fled.

                        Does Li Si Qing's name mean nothing? Learn history.
                      3. 0
                        2 March 2024 09: 52
                        Quote: VasAndr
                        In Finland, the USSR achieved its goal, moving the border away from Leningrad. But the USSR did not officially announce the task of replacing the Finnish government, and did not set it. Maybe Kuusinen himself hoped for this? I fully admit it. In this case, he lost, but not the USSR.

                        Soviet newspapers of that time published a message about the alleged flight of the Finnish government to an unknown direction and the formation of the “People's Government of Finland” led by Kuusinen, the so-called Terijoki government of Finland, with which the USSR entered into an agreement.
                        The song “Receive us, Suomi-beauty” was also written in advance. But it didn’t work out.
                    3. +2
                      2 March 2024 01: 21
                      Quote: VasAndr
                      In Afghanistan, the limited contingent of the Soviet Army was not defeated. He was taken out.

                      Well, the Americans did a “better” job there, they fled from there just like from Vietnam.
                    4. +1
                      3 March 2024 05: 50
                      Well, the NATO coalition in Vietnam was not defeated either, they were withdrawn themselves. But why don’t the West consider Vietnam a victory?
              2. +1
                2 March 2024 01: 18
                Quote: Silhouette
                There is not a single country in the world that in its history has always won everyone in wars.

                But if you lose a war like in 1905, those responsible must be put up against the wall.
      4. +2
        1 March 2024 22: 17
        read it. who is Marshal Timoshenko, on whose side the Imperial General Staff fought in almost its entirety during the Civil War...the term military expert itself is a Soviet term))
    6. +7
      1 March 2024 11: 37
      He knows. Therefore, the parade takes place imposingly while sitting. The first explanation was so that the veterans would not stand.
      1. +8
        1 March 2024 12: 44
        “He knows. That’s why the parade is taking place imposingly sitting. The first explanation was so that the veterans would not stand.”

        Parades are not accepted while sitting - unless sitting on a horse.
        1. +8
          1 March 2024 13: 23
          WWII veterans are slowly leaving. Eternal Memory to the departed, and Glory to the living! But the trend will remain. The Commander-in-Chief and the rest of the country's leadership must accept the parade standing. Out of respect for the people passing in front of them. Unfortunately, nothing will change. The Mausoleum will also be draped, and there will be gatherings.
          1. +9
            1 March 2024 15: 21
            This power is not eternal, but the glory of our ancestors - and their feat - are eternal. Someday our people will find rulers worthy of respect. Or it will disappear.
            1. +9
              1 March 2024 15: 58
              You're right. That’s why I still haven’t left the forum, which has recently begun to turn into a scam. On the periphery, everything is in plain sight.
  5. +21
    1 March 2024 06: 19
    Local officials listen to the president, nod in agreement, express their readiness to follow the announced course, and so on. But in fact, the rewriting of history continues.
    How else could it be that from year to year the mausoleum to which the fascist banners were thrown is covered with plywood. Give it back the look it had at the parade in 1945, put red banners on it, and the officials will understand.
    1. +9
      1 March 2024 07: 34
      Quote: Alex66
      The mausoleum to which fascist banners were thrown is covered with plywood

      How would the winners themselves react to this? Could you understand?
      1. +1
        1 March 2024 17: 50
        How would the winners themselves react to this? Could you understand?

        How would the victors react when their Supreme Commander-in-Chief, Architect of Victory, Father of Nations was thrown out of the Mausoleum at night and STALIN was knocked down?
        And it was not the liberal Putin who did this, but the first secretary of the CPSU Central Committee, and the entire Central Committee applauded him?
        Let's restore his look, but not at 45, but at 55.

        Or maybe it’s better to find out the actions of Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, the All-Union Communist Party of the Soviet Union and the CPSU in the revolution and civil war and the Great Patriotic War. Then we will publish this and in a referendum we will decide what assessment they all deserve: to uncover the mausoleum, or to throw Lenin’s body out of it.
      2. -2
        1 March 2024 18: 34
        Quote: Stas157
        How would the winners themselves react to this? Could you understand?

        Interestingly. They are still sitting. Or was it your imagination?
    2. +5
      1 March 2024 08: 05
      Quote: Alex66
      Give it back the look it had at the parade in 1945, put red banners on it, and the officials will understand.

      Quote: Alex66
      Give it back the look it had at the parade in 1945, put red banners on it, and the officials will understand.

      ABOUT! The officials will then run, dropping their slippers, so that they can have complete order in their cities, in accordance with the general line...oh, not the party, but democracy.
      Thanks for the article, Roman. Everything you write is correct.
    3. Alf
      +2
      1 March 2024 18: 04
      Quote: Alex66
      you'll see that the officials will understand.

      Yes, they will jump into private jets at the sight of the Red Banner.
  6. +7
    1 March 2024 06: 33
    Phew, it's relieved. I thought they erected a monument to Manstein. wink
    It turned out that the author did not like the pyramids. Any obelisk is a pyramid. wink
    And of course, it is necessary to restore and support.
    1. +10
      1 March 2024 07: 03
      Quote: Arzt
      Phew, it's relieved. I thought they erected a monument to Manstein
      And it would not be surprising if they did. A memorial plaque to Mannerheim once hung in the city that he, along with the Germans, starved wink
      1. +10
        1 March 2024 07: 57
        A memorial plaque to Mannerheim once hung in the city
        Now it hangs outside the city, indoors, and what’s the difference?
        1. +7
          1 March 2024 08: 08
          there is such a monument in Moscow, there is Krasnov Panvits and a lot of people
        2. +4
          1 March 2024 08: 22
          Quote: kor1vet1974
          Now it hangs outside the city, indoors, and what’s the difference?
          Did not know. I thought that she was completely exhausted, like a class wink
          1. +9
            1 March 2024 08: 37
            Nope....they moved it away from human eyes..
      2. -4
        1 March 2024 13: 17
        a commemorative plaque to Mannerheim once hung in the city,

        Well, they tore it down. True, not on the first try, but they removed it....
        In general, it’s stupid to fight with monuments.
        There's a deeper problem here.
        Tell me honestly, did you know where the LBS took place in Voronezh?
        That's what I'm talking about. You need to know history. It is necessary to read LENIN'S WORKS AND NOT THE LENIN INSCRIPTION on the mausoleum. Then a lot will become clearer. But not everyone likes this understanding. It's much easier to worship a fetish.
        1. +3
          1 March 2024 14: 08
          Well, they tore it down. True, not on the first try, but they removed it....
          In general, it’s stupid to fight with monuments.
          There's a deeper problem here.
          Tell me honestly, did you know where the LBS took place in Voronezh?
          That's what I'm talking about. You need to know history. It is necessary to read LENIN'S WORKS AND NOT THE LENIN INSCRIPTION on the mausoleum. Then a lot will become clearer. But not everyone likes this understanding. It's much easier to worship a fetish.

          There is little about Voronezh; Stalingrad has been covered.

          Here are some interesting facts:

          1. The city of Voronezh is the third after Leningrad and Sevastopol in terms of duration of stay on the front line. The duration of Voronezh's presence on the battle line is 212 days and nights, and all this time the front line passed directly through the city.

          2. During the entire war there were only two cities (Stalingrad and Voronezh) where the front line passed directly through the city.

          3. Voronezh was one of the 12 European cities most damaged in World War II, and one of the 15 cities in the Soviet Union that required immediate reconstruction.

          4. During the fighting in the city, more than 95% of the buildings were destroyed.

          5. Near Voronezh, the Hungarians lost their entire most combat-ready army.

          6. In total, 26 German divisions, the 2nd Romanian Army and the 8th Italian Army were completely destroyed in the battles for Voronezh.

          7. The number of prisoners taken on the Voronezh front is 75 soldiers and officers.

          8. According to various estimates, the losses of German troops and their allies amounted to 320 thousand soldiers and officers. Our army lost even more; about 400 Soviet soldiers died in battles on Voronezh soil.

          9. At a time when the country began to celebrate its cities with the special title “Hero City,” the leadership of Voronezh collected and sent documents to Moscow to confer this honorary title on Voronezh. However, for some reason this title was never awarded to Voronezh.

          10. On February 16, 2008, for the heroism shown by the city’s defenders during the occupation by German troops, which prevented them from completely capturing one of the main centers of the country, the city was awarded the honorary title of the Russian Federation “City of Military Glory.” So Voronezh stands modestly among the cities of military glory, a city that never became a “Hero City”.

          https://dzen.ru/a/XPQhhSOz8ACv3ZK3
          1. +1
            1 March 2024 20: 19
            During the entire war there were only two cities (Stalingrad and Voronezh) where the front line passed directly through the city.

            Here is a typical example of distortion of real history. And not on purpose, but simply out of ignorance. There was another city that was not occupied and the defense line ran there for many days, through an industrial zone within the city. This city...Novorossiysk. wink
            1. +1
              1 March 2024 20: 32
              In addition, for example, in Leningrad its suburbs were occupied. How can we calculate whether the city was partially occupied or not?
      3. +8
        1 March 2024 13: 33
        It’s surprising why the EBN center is still functioning in Yekaterinburg? The memory must be left, but not in the exhibitions of one of the destroyers of the Great State.
    2. +11
      1 March 2024 08: 29
      Well, a little south of Voronezh, in the Rostov region, there is a monument to the Cossack atamans who swore allegiance to Hitler. I’m talking about the monument to Krasnov, but the owner of this claims that the monument is a collective image of Shkuro, Klych Giray, and Krasnov, of course.... And The authorities can’t do anything about it. Or they don’t want to get involved, because they may lose their sponsor-“philanthropist”...
      1. +8
        1 March 2024 09: 12
        near Novorosssk there is a street called Shkuro, who called it that no one remembers the type))
        1. +3
          1 March 2024 15: 03
          It seems that the streets named after General Andrei Shkuro and Ataman Naumenko (also a Nazi collaborator) were already renamed into the streets of General Kirichenko and General Pliev. About two years ago. After the start of the Northern Military District
    3. -3
      1 March 2024 12: 38
      I would direct the discussion about the admissibility of enclosing the Mausoleum on holidays in a historical direction, in the sense of wow, how disgusting it is, Putin’s sycophants do not respect Lenin, but I would try to find out where the legs came from. . EBN, together with its sycophants, generally aimed at demolishing the Mausoleum. Putin doesn’t like Lenin either, but not to the same extent as EBN, so there was a compromise. So, I have a question! 1. To the title "Enemies of the people: rewriters of the history of the Great Patriotic War today"That is, bureaucratic games and nonsense on the spot are the machinations of enemies of the people? What do you think Roman
      Do they get 10 years without the right to correspondence, or are they sent to the wall? The author writes about the feat of Lazar Dzotov, as if weighing whether he is worthy of the title of Hero, is he too self-confident? That is, if he really wrote his note in blood, then he would be worthy, but with a chemical pencil, that’s how everyone did it. Should the tale of Ilya Mromets, who defeated the snake, be considered an attempt on historical truth and the machinations of enemies of the people? 2. Regarding monuments to the invaders, I think that this is unacceptable - the example of the Mannerheim memorial plaque removed from the wall is worthy of investigation on the topic of who allowed it and why. I consider it normal to support the maintenance of cemeteries, there are many of them, as long as there is no fascist propaganda there. Because otherwise is not Christian. Any person, even an outcast, deserves burial after death
      1. -7
        1 March 2024 13: 20
        EBN, together with his sycophants, generally aimed at demolishing the Mausoleum.

        But fans of grandfather Lenin have already forgotten this. Putin practically saved the mausoleum. But the heirs of the Bolsheviks have a SELECTIVE MEMORY. And they never gave a damn about the facts.
        A very simple question. Why is it blasphemy to remove Lenin from the mausoleum, but throwing out Stalin’s body is normal. ?
        1. 0
          1 March 2024 14: 07
          "Why is it blasphemy to remove Lenin from the mausoleum, but throwing out Stalin’s body is normal. ?"
          Because the party line is an oscillator. History can judge to what extent it is harmonic. And according to simple Khrushchev, the reins are off the hook. This, however, is typical for all times and peoples. Why, for example, for sodomy in medieval England, a close associate of the king, forgot his last name, had his causal place cut off, but in modern England - you know. Our liberals generally believe that treason is not a crime, but the ability to foresee. Therefore, discussing how much first one way and then another is a thankless task, each time in your own way.
          1. -4
            1 March 2024 14: 12
            Because the party line is an oscillator.

            Well, just like in the joke. Unshakable Bolshevik. He fluctuated exclusively in sync with the party line.
      2. +5
        1 March 2024 15: 27
        example of a memorial plaque to Mannerheim removed from the wall
        From the wall in St. Petersburg, moved to Tsarskoe Selo, to the building of some museum, what has changed?
  7. +5
    1 March 2024 06: 39
    . The plant was destroyed and sold. Really, why does Russia need excavators? You can buy Chinese ones

    I’m wondering, are we still making Russian tractors and excavators after 2022? I especially pay attention on the street. I only saw the Belarus tractor. The rest are imported.
    1. +3
      1 March 2024 07: 55
      Do we still make Russian tractors?
      - ChTZ
    2. -3
      1 March 2024 08: 14
      Belarusian ones, of course, are not imported...

      a chicken is not a bird, Mongolia is not a foreign country, Minsky is not a motorcycle... :)
    3. +1
      1 March 2024 11: 40
      Quote: Stas157
      Are we still making Russian tractors and excavators after 2022?

      They do. For example, Kirov residents. In 2023, they launched a new model, albeit with a Chinese engine. But they also do it with Tutaevsky ones.
      Chetra (Cheboksary) produced more than 700 units of equipment, bulldozers, excavators, loaders
      Rostselmash produces quite a lot of tractors and combines.
      ChTZ..
      At all
      Rosstat has published new statistical data on the production of agricultural machinery for 11 months of 2023. Thus, according to the country’s main statistical agency:

      production of grain harvesters in January-November 2023 increased by 21,5% compared to last year, to 5000 units. At the same time, in November they were produced 39,9% less (243 units) than in November last year, but 91,3% more than in October 2023.
      production of tractors for agriculture in the 11 months of 2023 fell by 10,8%, to 8,5 thousand units. Moreover, in November 2023, 665 units were produced. - 25,4% less than in November last year and 12,4% less than in October 2023.

      Quote: Stas157
      The rest are imported.

      Are you confident that you can tell the difference?
    4. -1
      1 March 2024 14: 16
      I only saw the Belarus tractor.

      Today he is not Belarus, but Belarus. lol
      I saw a K-700 (with some other letters there) 23 years old, 6 lyams.
      Another neighbor bought a scout. I don't know how much of us he is.
    5. 0
      2 March 2024 21: 00
      “I only saw a Belarusian tractor. The rest are imported.”
      Belarus, like BE, is also not Russian
  8. +9
    1 March 2024 06: 40
    The fact that Voronezh was not awarded the title of Hero City is a disgrace to the name of the CPSU.
    I told my grandchildren all this, and they will remember:
    The Hero City of Sevastopol saved Leningrad with its death in 1942.
    Voronezh in the summer of 1942 saved Stalingrad with stubborn defense. And the title Hero City is rightfully due to him.
    1. +2
      1 March 2024 08: 13
      I agree with you. However, the Hungarian army was destroyed in Voronezh, and in the region there is the largest burial place of Hungarian soldiers in the world outside of Hungary. They say they didn’t give it because of this, they became our allies.

      Swedes, French, Hungarians - Poltava, Berezina, Voronezh.
  9. +11
    1 March 2024 07: 01
    Well, what wrong did they do with the enemies of the people under I.V. Stalin. When they were imprisoned or shot for sabotage, failure to comply with government orders, for espionage, for failure to fulfill the oath, for fraud, and for almost everything that is bad for the country. And now? Under the rule of the liberals and their henchmen, a bardelier is happening in the country and no one has answered for anything and will not answer. If they don’t want to do the right thing, then they need a whip. But with us, except la-la, yes mu-umu with ru-ru They don’t know how to do anything. Moreover, they try to erase the name of the Real Leader of the people, no match for the current poor students, from the face of the earth every time, instead of learning at least a little history. Chatterboxes and, for the most part, servants of the bourgeoisie.
    1. +2
      1 March 2024 08: 24
      Quote: Taimen
      Well, what wrong did they do with the enemies of the people under I.V. Stalin
      If we transfer all this to our time, then why isn’t some Chubais or Nemtsov an enemy of the people? The execution cellars are crying for them. True, Nemtsov has already been disposed of wink
  10. Des
    +10
    1 March 2024 07: 35
    I don’t know about the relationship between the Voronezh administration and the Ossetian diaspora. The author of VO knows better. A bust of a twice Hero of the Soviet Union was installed in the hero's homeland. Therefore, the author’s “And the top of everything is the bust. Which, we note, was given only to the Twice Heroes of the Soviet Union and now to the Heroes of Russia.
    It’s not only an overkill, moreover, an obvious forgery.” emotional reaction. Such monuments are erected to many people. It’s not about the “bust.” Lazar Dzotov is a warrior, a Komsomol member (!), who died defending his Soviet Motherland. His words - from the heart. Yes, Ossetians remember and are proud of their soldiers. Deservedly. After all, no one is stopping us from perpetuating the soldiers of the Great Patriotic War in the same way (even without the diaspora)).
    As for the rest, the author is right.
  11. +4
    1 March 2024 07: 48
    Ostap Bender knew 400 relatively honest ways of taking money from the population))) but how else can you make money so that a mosquito doesn’t stain your trunk)))
  12. +2
    1 March 2024 08: 01
    the stupidity and greed of our bureaucracy is limitless....
  13. +5
    1 March 2024 08: 07
    The author is partly right, but patriotic frenzy, like any other frenzy, played a cruel joke on him.

    I’m not just not delighted with the local authorities, I’m more than not delighted - however, not only with the local ones, since the local one is a continuation of the central one, its organ. This is their game - good king, bad boyars, I don’t play it.

    However, the author rewrites history no less than those whom he criticizes.

    The city of Voronezh was almost completely destroyed as a result of urban fighting and bombing; it actually turned out to be the first city in the Second World War to be taken by storm. The Germans did not go to the left bank - and did not intend to go, but we all the time held bridgeheads on the right - very expensive bridgeheads. To assert on this basis that the city “was not liberated” is roughly the same as asserting that there was no siege of Leningrad.

    There were also unsuccessful operations, in particular, our 5th Tank Army of General Lizyukov died there, who also died, a street is named after him (although the author may only know the kitten of the same name; there are monuments to both).

    The Sovinformburo reports spoke about the liberation of Voronezh - how could they know that it was not occupied?

    The ugly pyramid stands at the “Monument of Glory” stop, next to the memorial, but this is not a monument to soldiers, it’s not clear at all, here I agree with the author. However, this ugly thing has nothing to do with rewriting history. And it is not located at the entrance to the city, but about 10 km from the Voronezh sign. And the central square is about 5 km from it...

    The author made me laugh about the tank - in Voronezh there is a stop "Monument to Tankmen", popularly - "Tank"

    https://www.tripadvisor.ru/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g798124-d7709691-i126585330-Monument_Tank_T_34-Voronezh_Voronezh_Oblast_Central_Russia.html

    Is it clear why it is called that? This monument also stood at the entrance, but our city is expanding, which, it seems to me, is not always right.

    We also have a plane stop...

    And we have a “park of patriots”, where there is military equipment in the open air that you can touch with your hands. But the author is not interested in this - he needs the negative.

    About the “Pilot’s Grave” (that’s what people have called it for many years) in general – it’s completely out of the question.

    In general, either the article was ordered, or was written in a frenzy - which one, I’m not sure - and based on dubious sources. That's what the Internet boys write.

    Most likely, the author has never been to Voronezh - but in vain, we not only have bad authorities and pyramids.
    So let him come - especially since not all Voronezh residents read VO and, perhaps, they won’t even hit him in the face for such an article.
    1. +2
      1 March 2024 08: 38
      The author actually lives in Voronezh, this is so by the way, and when the pyramid was made, it was almost the outskirts, there were no German houses at the entrance or the city shopping center
      1. 0
        1 March 2024 09: 30
        “The author actually lives in Voronezh, that’s apropos,”

        I will not believe. He should have known about our tank; it is a very old monument.

        “and when the pyramid was made, it was almost on the outskirts, there were no German houses at Viezle or the grad shopping center yet”

        The German town has not been “at the entrance” for many years, but the monument was a suburb in the 80s of the last century, the pyramid was built in 2000. But even then it was not “at the entrance”, but the German town was already there (I live nearby, I know this area better than anyone else).

        However, this is not important, the author writes about the present tense.
        1. +1
          2 March 2024 08: 23
          Quote: S.Z.
          In general, either the article was ordered, or was written in a frenzy - which one, I’m not sure - and based on dubious sources. That's what the Internet boys write.

          That’s why, my dears, I haven’t read comments for a long time. Not interested.

          Quote: S.Z.
          “No, he wrote that he was from Voronezh. You will write to him if you meet him from Voronezh.”

          What for?


          Really, why? The main thing here is to dump your emergency, the rest is just... little things.
          1. 0
            4 March 2024 07: 47
            “That’s why, my dears, I haven’t read comments for a long time. It’s not interesting.”

            Indeed, why does the author need to know the readers’ opinions? He doesn’t write to be read.

            “Really, why? The main thing here is to dump your emergency, the rest is just... trifles.”

            :) This phrase is especially good considering the previous phrase by the same author in the same post :)
    2. +2
      1 March 2024 08: 51
      the author has never been to Voronezh
      No, he wrote that he was from Voronezh. You will write to him if you meet him from Voronezh.
      1. +1
        1 March 2024 10: 21
        “No, he wrote that he was from Voronezh. You will write to him if you meet him from Voronezh.”

        What for?
        1. +1
          1 March 2024 10: 32
          Make sure he is from Voronezh.
          1. 0
            1 March 2024 11: 32
            "Make sure he's from Voronezh."

            :) Will I check the documents? Otherwise, even in the existence of a person there will not be complete confidence - a collective of authors is possible.
            1. SNA
              -1
              1 March 2024 21: 06
              Why documents? EMNIP he is from the South-West region.
              1. -1
                4 March 2024 08: 24
                "Why documents? EMNIP he is from the South-West region."

                And didn’t notice the tank monument? :) You noticed it in Lipetsk, but didn’t notice it in Voronezh?
            2. +3
              2 March 2024 08: 24
              Quote: S.Z.
              Otherwise, even in the existence of a person there will not be complete confidence - a collective of authors is possible.


              How stupid the electorate is... It’s just cruel. And they behave the same way on the roads.
      2. +1
        2 March 2024 08: 26
        Quote: kor1vet1974
        No, he wrote that he was from Voronezh. You will write to him if you meet him from Voronezh.


        I’ll also ask the question: why do I need it? This organism didn’t come for that))) I would like to get to know you, but with this Sergei... well, it’s so-so. His arrogance and swagger will most likely fly away and in general he will be afraid to take that step. And even more so if I am a team. I can hang them collectively)))
        1. -1
          4 March 2024 07: 51
          “I’ll also ask the question: why do I need it? This organism didn’t come for that))) I would like to get to know you, but with this Sergei... well, it’s just such a job. His arrogance and swagger will most likely fly off and in general he will be afraid at that step. And even more so if I’m a collective. I can hang collectively)))"

          :) What, Roma got caught in a lie and has already started making half-threats? I have no desire to meet with you or correspond separately, your article is custom-made, the truth is mixed with lies, you write about our city, either without knowing it, or “for the sake of words.” Basically a lie.

          All your objections are directed only at my personality, and not at all at what I wrote. Because you essentially have nothing to say.
    3. +1
      1 March 2024 13: 16
      Right. During the war, Strelna and Sosnovaya Polyana, which were part of the city limits of Leningrad, were occupied by the Germans. Tram number 36 went and still runs to Strelna. So now the assignment of a hero to the city is considered an attack on historical truth
  14. +1
    1 March 2024 08: 10
    The bureaucrats don’t know the history of their country, and they don’t want to know... I’ll keep quiet about the youth... they know the history of the West better.
    1. 0
      1 March 2024 11: 09
      Yes, post-Soviet youth were brought up on anti-Soviet and foreign attitudes. Which of them are patriots?
      1. +2
        1 March 2024 13: 37
        There is no need to blame all young people for lack of patriotism,
  15. -1
    1 March 2024 08: 17
    Well, rewriting history is a Russian national tradition. Carlson recently ate something like this - he even got the propeller jammed in his butt. Now he gives interviews about his painful experiences. Very downright apolitical.
  16. +4
    1 March 2024 08: 33
    Once there was a survey among the youth of Voronezh in whose honor Lizyukova Street was named... Almost a third answered that in honor of the cat from the cartoon!!!!!! And maybe I’m wrong, but there is no monument to Lizyukov in Voronezh or at the site of his death. And this plastic pyramid really causes absolute bewilderment
    1. 0
      1 March 2024 09: 35
      There is a bust of Lyuzikov, but it’s not exactly a “monument” to the cat either.

      Perhaps Lizyukov is one of the culprits in the death of the army. But he fought and died in a tank, that’s indisputable.

      That they don’t know who Lizyukov is is quite likely, but, you see, this is not a complaint against the Voronezh authorities.

      The pyramid is ugly, but it was built in 2000, under a different government - understand, I am not defending our government, but it messes up so much that there is no point in attributing the sins of others to it. And the pyramid has nothing to do with rewriting history at all.
      1. 0
        1 March 2024 13: 35
        After the unsuccessful actions of the 5th unit commanded by Lizyukov, he was removed and assigned to the command of the 2nd Tank. During the Blau operation, it is generally difficult to talk about the successful actions of the entire Bryansk Front, there is a wonderful study by Sdvizhkov, a Voronezh historian
        1. +2
          1 March 2024 15: 26
          Nevertheless, he died on Voronezh soil in his KV tank, and no one deprived him of the title of Hero of the Soviet Union.
  17. +11
    1 March 2024 08: 45
    Some kind of hypocrisy. The President says you can’t rewrite history, but he himself... They’ve already written about the tablets and the mausoleum, I won’t repeat it. Let’s remember others. The monument to Ilyin, the ideologist of Russian Nazism, the monument to Solzhenitsyn, a writer who simply throws mud at the liberating army and glorifies Bandera, all sorts of forest brothers .. And he lays flowers on these people. He says one thing, does the exact opposite. If the president treats memory this way, then God himself commanded local officials. It turns out like this.
  18. +1
    1 March 2024 09: 10
    those who rewrite History do not understand that History is a skin, not a dress. Therefore, those who have access to a wardrobe with falsifications wear dresses for the History of Russia and do this not because they are ashamed of the history of Russia, but because they are afraid of the greatness of the History of Russia, realizing that they are worthless in comparison with those who for centuries created this great History , Great country. To paraphrase Mayakovsky’s words, there is no need to ask which ones are temporary, get off! They are designated in the article, from the governor to those who cherish monuments to Italian fascists, and they must stop dressing the history of Russia in dresses
    falsifications, because if they don’t come down and their time doesn’t end, then the history of Russia may end...
    In a word, in the History of Russia, let Russia be better in the naked truth than dressed in the dresses of falsifiers of the History of Russia.
    By the way, in the USSR there were many sculptors, say, local Vuchetiches, who could create beautiful and majestic monuments in honor of the Victory of the Soviet people in the Second World War, not only on Mamayev Kurgan in honor of the heroes of the Battle of Stalingrad. What did we have in the USSR? I’m not talking about monuments at mass graves... They are modest there and the way it should be at the burial sites of soldiers. It’s as if the Khrushchev-Brezhnev communists also avoided the mass, public, ubiquitous and majestic visual memory of the people. It’s better to grind your tongue during political classes and at party meetings. Did they really already feel that they too were temporary, they would have to get down...
    By the way, those who dress the History of Russia in a dress of lies, it is still unclear who is taking examples from whom. Or such history teachers by profession as Venediktov and Svanidze with a history teacher by profession Evgeniy Kiselyov in Ukraine, or vice versa. The same with “historians” from the Baltic states. So, if people like Venediktov, Svanidze, Gozman in Russia were allowed to falsify the history of Russia and spoil Russia with impunity for thirty years, then those Tribaltic and Ukrainian “historians” also became emboldened and succeeded in the same thing. And there is also such a historian as Medinsky, who took care of the installation of the monument to Mannerheim in St. Petersburg. So then why be surprised about the monument to Italian fascists in Voronezh
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. +9
    1 March 2024 09: 29
    In order to defeat the Banderaites in Ukraine, you must first defeat the Vlasovites in Russia. (quote not verbatim)
    1. +3
      1 March 2024 14: 24
      we need to defeat the Vlasovites first
      But they are advancing on all fronts, wearing the guise of a patriot, read the comments of some, nooo, they are patriots, anti-Bandera, I just don’t understand one thing, why did the Banderaites, the forest brothers, the Nazis, shoot the communists? Anti-Bandera patriots of this kind. hi
  21. +4
    1 March 2024 09: 29
    All 35 years of “freedom of speech” the enemies of the USSR have had the same thing - like talking about the Great Patriotic War, they rush to be angry against Stalin, all the Soviet citizens killed by the Nazis were blamed on “Stalin’s victims”, but they try to throw more of them at them, the Soviet people won for them "contrary to"
    Stalin, and Hitler and the Nazis have nothing to do with them at all.
    And their benefactor at the Victory Parades always has something abstract - “our country”, “our people”, it is not clear who fought with whom.
  22. +9
    1 March 2024 09: 57
    I don’t understand why the spears are breaking. The President, in an interview with the American Tucker, in purely Russian and directly said that Russia took the initiative to destroy the Soviet Union. She abandoned communist ideas so that she would be accepted into her circle, as we say bourgeois.// This explains everything perfectly both what is said in the article and what is written about in the comments.
  23. +1
    1 March 2024 10: 10
    To be precise, in Rossoshi a monument was erected not to fascism (after all, fascism is a political phenomenon/movement/...), but to fascists (people of similar views) who were buried there... uh.... In my opinion. But this is a detail, nothing more.
    1. 0
      1 March 2024 10: 23
      "To be precise, in Rossoshi a monument was erected not to fascism (after all, fascism is a political phenomenon/movement/...), but to the fascists (people of similar views) who were buried there... uh...."

      Let's destroy monuments in cemeteries. In the end, monuments to our soldiers in our cemeteries in Europe are being demolished, but why are we worse?
      1. +5
        1 March 2024 14: 52
        Let's destroy monuments in cemeteries
        Or maybe it’s better not to erect such monuments at all? In our village there is a park, on the site where the SS men were buried, as the old-timers said. In the 90s, an initiative group of “patriots” stated that heroic Cossacks who fought against the bloody Bolshevik regime were buried in the park and erected a memorial stone, with church chants and other honors. There were also protesters who said that the Cossacks were from the Kuban SS division , but.. True, after a week the stone disappeared, and the place where it stood was dug up. “The villains” were not found, nor was the stone. They didn’t try a second time, because... statements were written to our administration, to the regional administration, on the topic of who you are throwing stones at the SS men.
        1. 0
          1 March 2024 15: 31
          “maybe it would be better not to erect such monuments at all?”

          Maybe there was no need to put it, but it was already done.

          It was not us, not the Russians who erected the memorial for the Italians - we only allowed the Italians to erect a memorial on their graves. Living Italians are not responsible for the affairs of their relatives.

          You shouldn't fight with the dead.

          However, if you look for enemies under every bush, then it is better not to erect any monuments at all - today he is a hero, and tomorrow he is a traitor. No one is immune.
          1. +5
            1 March 2024 15: 37
            You shouldn't fight with the dead.
            Why fight with dead invaders, traitors... relatives have nothing to do with it, they will come, they will honor the memory of the one who came to your ancestors to make them slaves, but it was not possible. It’s sad...
            1. +1
              4 March 2024 09: 46
              “Why fight with dead invaders, traitors... relatives, it has nothing to do with it, they will come, they will honor the memory of the one who came to your ancestors to make them slaves, but it was not possible. It’s sad...”

              Okay, let's look at this question from a logical point of view. :)

              The cemetery of enemy soldiers who died on our soil is a wonderful historical lesson to the aggressor and an excellent patriotic monument - and the larger the cemetery, the better the monument. Even from a practical point of view, it would be better to keep these cemeteries in order - for the sake of historical memory.

              They came to us with a sword - here they are, all lying here, and next to it is an exhibition of their “swords”. Very pedagogical.
          2. +5
            1 March 2024 15: 45
            But that means then you need to demolish it, and forget about all the sentiments that this is a grave, etc. Nobody invited them here and they came as invaders and I personally don’t care where their damn bones lie and I don’t want to know these places. Disappeared without a trace, that's where they belong. Let relatives come and take them for themselves and give them whatever they want.
      2. SNA
        +1
        1 March 2024 21: 10
        Wasn't the German cemetery cleared out in the "ring"?
  24. +6
    1 March 2024 10: 46
    In the West, the Holodomor was recognized at the legislative level as a deliberate extermination of Ukrainians by Moscow. What can we say about rewriting...
  25. The comment was deleted.
    1. +9
      1 March 2024 11: 14
      I wonder what the enemies of the USSR have an honest history of the Great Patriotic War? About “not thanks to, but in spite of”, “the enemy was filled with corpses”, “they shot their own soldiers in the back”, “Zhukov the butcher”, “women are giving birth to new ones”, counting all the dead and wounded in the Rzhev-Vyazemsk operation as dead, so as to create a myth "how did the Soviets and commies fight poorly and ineffectively"? That without Lend-Lease from the United States we would not have won?
      1. 0
        1 March 2024 13: 40
        They have an “honest history”: El ala Main and Guadalcanal, fundamental changes in the Second World War, that without Lend-Lease we would have come to an end... And so, they have no history at all
        1. +1
          1 March 2024 18: 06
          Quote: Andrey VOV
          They have an “honest history”: El ala Main and Guadalcanal were fundamental turning points in World War II, that without Lend-Lease we would have come to an end...

          No, this is an outdated concept.
          Quote: Andrey VOV
          And so, they have no history at all

          You are partly right. The general idea is that you need to agree with Soviet historians and the concept of WWII, and delete the military actions of the USSR and the Reich from WWII as a whole.
      2. +1
        1 March 2024 18: 12
        Quote: tatra
        I wonder what the enemies of the USSR have an honest history of the Great Patriotic War? About “not thanks to, but in spite of”, “the enemy was filled with corpses”, “they shot their own soldiers in the back”, “Zhukov the butcher”, “women are giving birth to new ones”, counting all the dead and wounded in the Rzhev-Vyazemsk operation as dead, so as to create a myth "how did the Soviets and commies fight poorly and ineffectively"? That without Lend-Lease from the United States we would not have won?

        In terms of? What you listed is exactly one of the Soviet versions of history. As for anti-Soviet options, this is now extremism. Google houses under a blanket "On the importance of preserving historical memory for the future of Europe"
        1. -2
          1 March 2024 19: 14
          What nonsense? How can ANTI-Soviet propaganda be a version of Soviet history? This cowardly “and we have nothing to do with it, it’s all the communists’ fault” is reaching the point of schizophrenia.
          1. -1
            1 March 2024 20: 31
            Quote: tatra
            What nonsense? How can ANTI-Soviet propaganda be a version of Soviet history?

            The fact that there were many enemies of the people in the leadership of the spacecraft and the USSR in those years does not cause controversy: only their list of names causes controversy. Either comrades Malenkov and Khrushchev correctly shot comrades Merkulov and Beria, respectively, or, on the contrary, comrades Merkulov and Beria were very careless, not shooting comrades Malenkov and Khrushchev on time. So conversations about “certain shortcomings of the Soviet government” were allowed during the Soviet period, starting right from the Second World War.

            A new level of discussion is, on the contrary, the unification of the Soviet people and the Soviet government back into one, so to speak, totality - this time with the Soviet people being presented with all the bills of the USSR. A Wehrmacht soldier is not responsible for the policies of the Reich, but each individual Soviet soldier is responsible for everything that the KA and other organizations subordinate to the leadership of the USSR did. This is called dialectics.
      3. 0
        3 March 2024 06: 46
        We have already paid a high price. And without Lend Lease it would have been even greater. My late grandmother cried until the end of her life, remembering how they starved on the collective farm during the war. You should have told her that the second front stew was not very necessary. And I would look.
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  27. +2
    1 March 2024 15: 53
    Why is there a plant named after them? Comintern! Here in Voronezh, for example, we had a tram until 2009! We were told that the tram is a thing of the past, and that the future of the city lies in personal vehicles and comfortable buses, that the tram interferes with public traffic, and that the city is drowning in traffic jams! The tram was removed, an additional lane was freed up, but the traffic jams remained the same! And what’s most interesting is that people understood, people got used to it... Just think, in a traffic jam from VAI on the way to work in the morning you will sit for two hours in a crowded bus, but it’s modern and you don’t need any tram, much less a metro....
    1. SNA
      +1
      1 March 2024 21: 17
      Did the tram run from VAEV? Ostuzheva, yes!
    2. +2
      1 March 2024 21: 39
      According to the Soviet project, the metro was supposed to go from the Northern district to VAI just ... they didn’t have time ....
  28. 0
    1 March 2024 21: 05
    Quote: tatra
    I wonder what the enemies of the USSR have an honest history of the Great Patriotic War? About “not thanks to, but in spite of”, “the enemy was filled with corpses”, “they shot their own soldiers in the back”, “Zhukov the butcher”, “women are giving birth to new ones”, counting all the dead and wounded in the Rzhev-Vyazemsk operation as dead, so as to create a myth "how did the Soviets and commies fight poorly and ineffectively"? That without Lend-Lease from the United States we would not have won?

    Well, of course, without Lend Lisa they would have won))) only every second Soviet shell contained American explosives, but without a doubt they would have won))) It’s especially good to win while sitting on the sofa, shouting patriotic slogans.
  29. -2
    1 March 2024 21: 11
    Thanks to the author!
    I have never read anything like this in VO before against a certain governor of a certain region.
    The text is evil, calling for a fight against everything bad in the Voronezh region.
    But who will become the new sun of the regional level has not been announced.
  30. +1
    1 March 2024 21: 37
    I didn't want to write. but it hurts...there was a machine-building plant named after Lenin in Voronezh of the Order of Lenin, which grew out of the pre-revolutionary workshops of V. Stoll, and naturally gradually ended up in the city center....During the Great Patriotic War, the plant was completely destroyed...having some relation to the city , found more plant workers who were working at the plant both under bombs and in evacuation... After the war, the buildings of the plant, which were monuments of industrial architecture of the 19th century. the former ones were carefully restored, women manually sorted out the rubble half a brick at a time, but they all restored the interesting glass roof and metal structures and intra-shop stairs of beautiful iron casting from the century before last...at the plant there was a monument to the plant workers who died during the Great Patriotic War, annually on May 9th to him flowers were laid...years passed, in the early 2000s some investors liked the site and that's it..... Everyone demolished the architectural monuments restored in the difficult post-war years, the monument to the factory workers......sorry. I don’t want to add grist to the enemy’s mill, but they demolished it when the press was going on a campaign to condemn the pro-Nazi authorities of Estonia for the demolition of the Bronze Soldier... such is the Voronezh story... But every year the local elite gives each other awards named after Wilhelm Stoll
  31. -1
    4 March 2024 14: 55
    Oh, what’s there to talk about when one of the main falsifiers of our great history was assigned to create a history textbook. This is a person who has not worked a day in school, who has no idea about the principles and methodology of teaching, as well as the requirements for textbooks. This is all controlled from above or from outside, but our nobility doesn’t care. They will continue, for lack of victories and achievements of their own over 30 years, to hypocritically hide behind the victories of their great ancestors and modern hero boys, while spitting on the Marshals and Generalissimos of Victory, and jump on the graves of Stalin and leaders in an anti-Soviet frenzy.
  32. 0
    4 March 2024 15: 37
    Quote: Shkodnik65
    What you so rudely called with the obscene word “torn apart” are the very Christian customs to which you are trying to appeal. By the way, they are almost two thousand years old. feel In general, when raising any topic, you need to first study the essence of the issue, so as not to look uh... let's say, incompetent. Yes

    Please enlighten me, what kind of traditions are these? I have no sarcasm or hidden meaning. Also, “the blood and body of Christ” somehow smacks of veiled cannibalism