"Motolyga" against "Malva", "Booker" and "Three Axes"

51
"Motolyga" against "Malva", "Booker" and "Three Axes"

At the turn of the two years of the special military operation in Ukraine, a strong public opinion developed that the current state of the artillery fleet of the Russian Armed Forces does not fully meet the requirements of the battlefield and the realities of counter-battery warfare with Western-made models. The complaints are formulated in two phrases: insufficient firing range and low accuracy.

And now, to dive into the topic and background of the issue, let’s look at a few quotes as food for thought.

“The 122 mm caliber (more precisely 121,92 mm - 4,8 inches or 48 lines) is the traditional caliber of Russian, Soviet and Russian field artillery. This caliber was first introduced after the Russo-Japanese War, when, based on its combat experience, the need to create a light but powerful field howitzer for the destruction of enemy field fortifications became obvious.



The Main Artillery Directorate of the Russian Empire considered a caliber of 48 lines to be the minimum sufficient for this purpose and ordered the first samples of howitzers of this caliber from the companies Krupp and Schneider. During the First World War, 122 mm howitzers were highly praised by the Russian military. In interwar and wartime, the USSR created long-range field and powerful tank guns of this caliber.

At the end of the 1970s. The production of 122 mm caliber guns in the USSR was stopped - tank guns switched to 125 mm caliber, and towed and self-propelled artillery to 120 mm in order to be able to fire mortar ammunition of this caliber.”

Nevertheless, Wikipedia claims that as of 2017, the Russian Ground Forces had 150 units of 122-mm 2S1 Gvozdika self-propelled guns (another 2 units in storage!), 000 units in the Coastal Forces of the Navy, and 95 units in the Pogranichnaya the FSB service has another 90. This is a total of 18 divisions of 18 guns.

“In February 2013, Russian Defense Minister S.K. Shoigu ordered the D-2013A howitzers located in the Ground Forces to be removed from service and transferred to storage bases by the end of 30. In return, the troops will receive Msta-B towed howitzers or Akatsiya self-propelled artillery mounts of 152 mm caliber. According to the order, the D-30A were to remain only in service with the Airborne Forces and the 56th Air Assault Brigade of the Southern Military District.

But nevertheless, the howitzer continued to be used at the 7th military base in Abkhazia, and a howitzer division was included in the newly created 2016th motorized rifle brigade in 30. Also used by the 22nd Army Corps of the Coastal Forces of the Navy in Crimea.”

As of 2016, the Russian Ground Forces had 800 units of 152-mm 2S3 Akatsiya self-propelled guns in service (another 1 units were in storage) and 000 units in the Coastal Forces of the Navy.

The minister’s decision in 2013 to replace 122-mm towed guns with 152-mm systems is certainly correct and has made an undoubted contribution to increasing both the power of ground forces artillery and its mobility on the battlefield. But in the same 2013, it was impossible not to know that in Germany, since 1998, the production of 155-mm self-propelled guns PzH-2000 with a barrel length of 52 calibers has been launched (versus 28 guns for the Acacia self-propelled guns and 47 guns for the Msta-B). , and in the United States, since 2005, production of the lightweight 155-mm towed howitzer M777 with a barrel length of 39 klb began, which will surpass the domestic self-propelled guns “Gvozdika” and “Akatsia” in terms of firing range.

About the Akatsiya self-propelled gun in other words: in 2013, the re-equipment of artillery units began on the model adopted for service in 1970 and the production of which was discontinued in 1993, i.e. 20 years ago. Of course, such a decision was influenced by both political and economic circumstances, and, probably, it was not easy. Now it's already story, and at the moment we have what we have.

The reality is that back in the mighty USSR it was decided to bury 122 mm artillery (more precisely 121,92 mm - 4,8 inches or 48 lines). It is very difficult and time-consuming for us to gradually move away from the system of inches and their derivatives. On the other hand, a number of foreign and domestic experts note as an advantage the still existing presence of two calibers of Russian artillery, 122 mm and 152 mm.

In the West, traditionally more emphasis is placed on the use aviation on the battlefield as opposed to the artillery systems of the ground forces. And the failure of the Ukrainian counter-offensive according to American patterns without air supremacy and in the absence of air support, despite some advantages in the characteristics of artillery systems, is proof of this.

On our part, based on the experience of the present, albeit extensive, but still local conflict, it is probably necessary to reconsider a number of decisions on the ways of developing field artillery.

All of the following domestic developments in the 120-mm caliber are inferior in firing range to the Gvozdika and Akatsiya self-propelled guns from the 70s of the last century, which are gradually being withdrawn from service. Moreover, it is incorrect to compare the accuracy of firing 120-mm mines from a remake with the accuracy of firing full-fledged shells from old women’s rifled guns.

“Nona 2S9” – 120-mm rifled semi-automatic gun-howitzer-mortar; 12,8 km.
“Vena 2S31” – 120-mm rifled semi-automatic gun-howitzer-mortar; 14 km.
“Khosta 2S34” – 120-mm rifled semi-automatic gun-howitzer-mortar; 14 km.
“Lotos 2S42” – 120-mm rifled semi-automatic gun-howitzer-mortar; 13 km.
“Pat-S 2S18” – 152 mm rifled howitzer; 15,2 km.
“Malva 2S43” – 152 mm rifled howitzer; 24,5 km.

The last two samples from the list in 152 mm caliber, in terms of their totality of characteristics, are not only not able to compete on equal terms with the best foreign samples, but are also inferior to the few last Soviet artillery systems of a similar caliber, “Gyacinth”, which have been unworthily put into storage.

Having studied the contents of Table No. 1, we objectively come to the conclusion that domestic artillery, with approximately equal caliber and weight of artillery ammunition, is significantly inferior to foreign models in the length of gun barrels, as well as in the volume of propellant charges used, which naturally entails a loss in firing range.


The logical consequence of such concessions or miscalculations, or perhaps strategic errors in development planning, is the current loss in firing range on the battlefield and the difficulty of conducting counter-battery warfare.

All of the above does not pretend to be even a superficial analysis of the situation, and certainly not a criticism. But the severity and urgency of the problem requires its comprehensive discussion, then the author will try to express and defend his point of view.

The niche of towed and self-propelled 122-mm guns and even the short-barreled 152-mm self-propelled gun “Acacia” should be occupied by a new self-propelled rifled gun of 125-mm caliber (in the article we call it “Rosehip”, according to the established “flower” tradition). On the Borodino field, Kutuzov had about 640 field artillery guns; in the final stages of the Great Patriotic War, in areas where enemy defenses were broken through, there was a concentration of up to 300 artillery barrels, mortars and MLRS per kilometer.

Nowadays, similar tasks can be carried out with the help of nuclear weapons by aviation, and by OTRK, and by the same artillery. But we can’t supply each stronghold of a platoon or company with a 152-mm self-propelled gun, so we have to work from closed positions with tanks that are not at all suited for such tasks. Here is a popular and visual drawing, pay attention to the angles of 20 and 70 degrees.


The vertical pointing angle of the T-90 tank’s gun is exactly the same 20 degrees (for the 2S25 Sprut-SD product this parameter is even less - 15 degrees). The situation is similar with the newly created American couple “Abrams” and “Booker”.

On the battlefields of Ukraine, neither the Abrams, nor the Challengers, nor the Leopards showed any outstanding results as a means of fire support, and it seemed that there was no other place to demonstrate this in a counter-offensive. They simply do not have time to reach the front edge in order to fire a direct fire shot, and the light towed 155-mm howitzer M777A1 is well adapted for firing from closed positions. In addition, the accuracy of flat trajectory fire from smooth-bore tank guns from closed positions, even theoretically, cannot be compared with the accuracy of howitzer fire.

This was well understood even in the Wehrmacht before World War II. Experts also note the unreasonably low filling coefficient of the 3OF26 tank high-explosive fragmentation projectile (the ratio of the mass of the explosive charge to the mass of the projectile); in this regard, the T-90 is inferior even to the outdated 122-mm rifled howitzers, which are gradually being removed from service.


So it turns out that the main advantage of a tank as an artillery platform lies only in the heavy armor protection of the vehicle and relatively high mobility (if by this we mean the ratio of engine power to weight), which allows it, with an acceptable degree of risk, to drive closer to the line of combat contact than the clumsy heavy and lightly armored self-propelled guns.

Thus, if we develop and create from scratch a 125-mm rifled gun and a heavy projectile with the characteristics from the red lines of Tables 1 and 2, then we will get a full-fledged replacement for the entire fleet of towed 122-mm howitzers and self-propelled guns “Gvozdika” and “Akatsiya”.

"Motolyga" - multi-purpose light tracked transporter MTLG


As you already guessed what we will talk about, but you were wrong. This will not be another reincarnation of the good old Kharkov MT-LB, but, I hope, a modern development of Muromteplovoz OJSC. Just as a genetically modified organism is superior in quality to its ancestor from the wild, so MTLG will only have an external resemblance to its predecessor from the 60s of the last century.

Development goals. The transporter must be ready to haul the entire fleet of towed guns of the Russian Army across the battlefield; become a worthy replacement for the entire list of weapons and military equipment based on MT-LB; and as a program, at most, become a single platform for the formation of light units and motorized infantry units similar to the American Stryker armored fighting vehicle.

Everything is relative. In this section, to compare certain values ​​of the characteristics of the new machine, data on the classic MT-LB will be reflected in parentheses; mention of other samples will be specified. The name of the new conveyor retains the adjectives multi-purpose and lightweight.

We must pay tribute to its predecessor; over time, and in terms of its range of applications, the MT-LB became a universal rather than a multi-purpose vehicle. But with the advent of towed howitzers “Msta-B” and then “Gyacinth-B” with a mass of 7 tons and 9,7 tons, it became impossible for a really light transporter to carry them off-road. Multi-axle heavy wheeled tractors became standard towing vehicles.

The main idea behind the development of a new light tractor is to increase its load capacity, increase the volume of the cargo compartment with sufficient strength and rigidity of the hull for mounting a wide range of weapons and military equipment. And although it will not become a regular tractor for the mentioned howitzers, it should become a kind of lifesaver off-road for equipment up to 10 tons. With a curb weight of the MTLG of 12 tons (9,7 tons) and a payload of 3 tons (1,5 tons), the combat weight of the vehicle will be 15 tons (12,2 tons).

Agree, this will still be a light weight category. A twofold increase in payload and a twenty percent increase in combat weight of the new vehicle naturally requires a new engine. The long-awaited replacement for the previous V-shaped eight-cylinder naturally aspirated diesel engine with a power of 240 hp. With. becomes an in-line six-cylinder turbocharged engine YaMZ-770 with a power of 360 hp. With.

This is exactly that rare case when there cannot be two opinions; technical progress has not looked into the engine compartment of a domestic bestseller for too long. The new engine produces a third more power while reducing the occupied volume and weight by about 10 percent and is also more economical in fuel consumption. Look at the hull of the MT-LB, it seems that the vehicle was created for the engine, and the crew is accommodated according to the residual principle.


The in-line YaMZ-770 will clearly fit into the now classic MTLG layout with the power unit located in front and on the right in the vehicle body. Thus, with purely symbolic increases in the dimensions of the new conveyor, it is possible to increase the useful volume inside the housing.

Two more points, without departing from the drawing.

What should be the cross-section and length of the positive wire to ensure stable engine starting from a slightly weak battery or in cold weather? And how irrationally the front compartment of the hull with the transmission is arranged, how much emptiness there is, due to the small angles of inclination of the front armor plates.

Now let's look at the difference between the body of the new vehicle and the MT-LB. The reasons for the revision were: simplification of manufacturing technology; increasing the base of the tracked chassis to maintain minimal pressure on the ground while increasing the total mass, slightly increasing the vehicle’s protection from modern threats. The main difference from its predecessor is two front sheets instead of three.

Firstly, the geometry is simplified, there are fewer components during manufacturing and welding. If we count from the vertical, then the slope of the lower front sheet on the MTLG is reduced to 40 degrees, in contrast to its predecessor, on which the angle was 45 degrees. Further, the single upper front sheet of MTLG has a slope of 70 degrees from the vertical, while on MT-LB there is a middle sheet with a slope of 80 degrees, and then continues with the front top sheet with a slope of 54 degrees (clarification: or 36 degrees from the horizontal).

On the old model, the lower and upper frontal plates are made of 14 mm rolled armor, apparently intended to provide protection against 14,5 mm KPVT bullets, while at the same time the almost horizontal middle frontal sheet is only 7 mm thick. At MTLG, both frontal plates are made from 14-mm armor, and if possible and willing, but not to the detriment of the overall weight characteristics of the vehicle, from 15-mm.

Secondly, increasing the angle between the front plates of the MTLG hull to 70 degrees (55) allows for more efficient use of the armor volume and shifting the transmission mechanisms and drive wheels forward, which helps expand the base. Next, again, in order to increase the volume on the MTLG, the tilt angle of the upper side sheets of the hull was reduced to 20 degrees (23).

All side and stern sheets of the MT-LB have a thickness of 7 mm; reliable data on the bottom and roof could not be found. But be that as it may, if when designing a new car there is a reserve of weight, after all the modifications it would not hurt to use it to strengthen the protection of the bottom and roof of the hull.

But let’s not be distracted from the main task of creating a new transporter - to become a platform for placing a 125-mm howitzer with a barrel length of 39 calibers. If it can withstand the loads of artillery fire, then all other options for armament and use are feasible without restrictions.

Under the USSR, they didn’t bother much with this problem and simply added a seventh pair of road wheels to the increased length of the hull - the result was the “Gvozdika”. If for the MT-LB the load on the road wheel was a little more than a ton, then for the Gvozdika it increased by 120 kilograms, which is not critical given the safety margins included in the projects of that country. Assuming the mass of the new MTLG-based self-propelled gun is 17–18 tons, the load on the roller should be assumed to be 1,5 tons. Starting from the existing sample, we increase the diameter of the new roller to 70 cm (67) and the width of the rubber tire to 15 cm (14), of course, the weight will also increase - 50 kg (43,4).

I don’t really want to embark on the slippery path of competition with narrow specialists in high technology, but even if I fail in my reasoning, it will serve as a lesson to others; in the end, you also need to be able to lose.

It would seem that a significant increase in load in the new project also implies replacement of torsion bars.

Here are the data of the original MT-LB torsion bar, designed for a vehicle weight of 12,2 tons, in brackets I will indicate the same parameters for the American Bradley infantry fighting vehicle weighing 22,8 tons: torsion bar diameter 44 mm (48); length 2 mm (110); weight 1 kg (950). Does anything bother you?

If you make primitive calculations of the volumes of two cylinders and then multiply by the density of iron, then the weight of the American part practically coincides with the given figure. But our torsion bar seems to be made of AMG...

Therefore, for our new product we will choose something in between: diameter 46 mm; length 2 mm; weight 100 kg.


And finally, let’s walk through the caterpillar.

An increase in the base of the tracked chassis of the new project to 3 mm (900) and a higher location of the axle of the drive wheels 3 mm (700) will require a slight increase in the length of the tracks. According to table No. 712, the length of the caterpillar on the MT-LB is almost 610 meters with 3 elements.

None of the best examples of tracked vehicles in the world listed in the table, except the MT-LB, can afford such a luxury! If you don’t change anything, then on MTLG the number of tracks will increase by about six more units. With a sufficient length, even a monolithic I-rail can be turned into an arc with little effort. And the ability of a small track on a flat surface to depict a fairly deep bend without much effort is beyond doubt; such a property is fraught with the loss of the track when making turns with the conveyor, especially with severe wear and weakened tension.

For a new, heavier vehicle, it is simply necessary to increase the track pitch, but not radically, 115 mm (111), in order to maintain all the advantages of a small track. This is a rather controversial proposal; on the one hand, everything cannot be taken to the point of absurdity; on the other hand, such an increase in the size of the product will still amount to at least 110 pieces on a new machine. But it is impossible to keep the track from the MT-LB due to the increase in the width of the road wheels.

And if so, then the second proposal for a new caterpillar is more radical: on every second track, abandon a pair of guide teeth, that is, make it flat. The increased diameter of the road wheels and the reduced flexibility of the new caterpillar during lateral bending will not worsen the driving performance of the conveyor as a whole, but the absence of teeth on every second link will provide good weight savings. In the end, since the tracks are interchangeable, they can be combined in other proportions, say, through two toothed ones and one flat one. Everything will be determined by mechanics under specific operating conditions.


When creating a new vehicle, you must initially abandon the ambitious requirement for its amphibiousness. Modern realities on the battlefield and in the immediate rear leave even the predecessor with the adjective “armored” in the name no chance of survival, let alone overcoming a water barrier with possible fire resistance.

For assault operations there are armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles with much better armor, weapons and the ability to overcome water obstacles. Let the MTLG become a good tracked transporter, although calculations indicate the ability to maintain positive buoyancy even with a full load of 3 tons. Consequently, the self-propelled artillery installation at its base should not claim to be unparalleled in the world in conquering the water element.


Self-propelled gun "Rosehipnik"

The main armament of the new self-propelled gun should be a 125-mm howitzer-type rifled gun with a barrel length of 39 calibers (4 mm) with a charging chamber volume of within 875 liters. A developed actively reactive muzzle brake should reduce the recoil force from the action of powder gases from a powerful propellant charge by at least fifty percent.

Refusal of the ejector on the barrel will improve its quality and have a positive effect on increasing the firing range; the problem of gas contamination in the fighting compartment can be solved by installing a valve in the breech, through which, before removing the metal frame of the partially combustible cartridge case, the barrel is purged with compressed nitrogen, and only then open the bolt.

Purging with nitrogen will partially prevent oxidation of the metal surfaces of the barrel bore and improve thermal stabilization, since the gas temperature decreases during expansion. The basis of the ammunition load is a heavy (28 kg) high-explosive fragmentation projectile with a five-kilogram explosive charge inside.


The gun with an automatic loading mechanism is located in the rear part of the MTLG chassis in a fixed turret-superstructure, which provides guidance within 40 degrees horizontally and from –1 to +70 degrees vertically.

The process of aiming the gun, forming a shot and loading are carried out in a fully automatic mode. The onboard automated ammunition control system for seven rounds prepared for firing, modeled after the Swedish self-propelled gun "Archer", ensures loading of the self-propelled gun at any angles of vertical and horizontal guidance without returning the barrel to the loading line, which will allow all seven to be fired at the target at an interval of 10 seconds per minute ammunition.

Thus, with an initial projectile speed of 750 m/sec and firing at a maximum range of up to 20 kilometers, a vehicle with a crew of three can leave the position and go to cover or to reload half a minute before the last ammunition falls on the target.

Two hydraulic jacks are installed in the rear part of the hull to smooth out hull vibrations during firing, reduce the load on the chassis chassis when firing at large vertical guidance angles, improve the leveling of the artillery platform as a whole in preparation for firing and its correction during loading between shots in automatic mode.

In addition, when equipping the Rosehip self-propelled gun with a Doppler locator to determine corrections along the flight path of projectiles, the presence of such devices will increase the stability and accuracy of the radar. It may make sense when creating a new self-propelled gun to switch to electrical equipment for the entire product with a DC voltage of 36 volts.

Electric drives for horizontal and vertical guidance, electrics for the automatic loader, communications and navigation equipment, gun radar, electric drives for hydraulic jacks, BMDU (remote control combat module) of a machine gun installation for air defense tasks, a heating and ventilation system for the crew will require a large amount of electricity.

All these needs can be briefly satisfied by a battery of six batteries of the base chassis with a voltage of 36 volts when the propulsion engine is not running in sound and thermal masking mode during combat work at the front line. But in order to ensure the self-propelled guns are on duty in readiness to open fire, air defense and save the life of the propulsion engine, a backup autonomous power supply unit is also required.


Let's return to the title of the article.

The main premise for the creation of the Malva self-propelled joint stock company is considered to give the large-caliber artillery piece strategic mobility (the ability to transport heavy military aircraft in the shortest possible time over long distances) and high maneuverability in the front-line zone due to the advantages of a wheeled chassis.

So, the proposed version of the Rosehip self-propelled gun will be twice as good as the Malva self-propelled gun according to these criteria. In terms of long-distance transfer, whether in an Il-76 or on a railway platform, the “Rosehip” is placed in a pair; along roads on a 40-ton trailer, the same pair is not much inferior to the opponent. But the arrival at the front of twice as many full-fledged guns more than compensates for their smaller caliber.

In tactical terms, as the Malva combat unit is inferior in specific power and specific ground pressure, deploying an eight-wheeled 13-meter platform off-road or in wooded areas is much more difficult than a tracked self-propelled gun.


When comparing “Rosehip” with “Booker,” what first comes to mind is a duel situation in the spirit of the battles of World War II, which is unlikely in modern realities.

Firstly, at present, both the enemy’s front line, the strip of territory behind it, and possible routes of approach from the rear are quite clearly visible by reconnaissance means.

Secondly, the troops are quite well equipped with anti-tank weapons (mines, RPGs, portable and self-propelled ATGMs, shock drones and the same artillery on call).

Thirdly, having a sufficient firing range and striking accuracy, it is quite possible for a self-propelled howitzer to occupy a protected, camouflaged position 5–8 kilometers from the front edge. Such a distance will allow its own radar to reliably determine the location of enemy artillery and mortars and effectively counter them.

Otherwise, having good mobility and relatively small dimensions, short raids to the front edge in a certain direction and to pre-selected positions for launching fire raids with subsequent quick rebound are possible. I assume that such work could be more effective if we envisage the use of a pair of self-propelled guns in close cooperation with each other.

Ideally, such a pair of self-propelled guns with their own radars and in close cooperation with a reconnaissance drone will leave no chance on the battlefield not only for the Booker, but also for a more serious enemy, including full-fledged tanks and large-caliber self-propelled guns.

And finally, what can “Rosehip” oppose to a real and strong enemy in the person of the towed American howitzer M777, in the world and behind the scenes - “Three Axes”. The American has a larger caliber, a longer firing range, and there are rumors that the accuracy is better. But it has all the classic disadvantages of a towed gun.

And here are the specifics! The standard crew of the gun is 10 people, including the driver of the tractor, and the minimum crew required for firing is 5 people, with a significant reduction in the rate of fire. As one very popular actor playing the role of a Central Asian said: “America has a lot of people!”

But what about that same rate of fire?

Intensive - four shots per minute for up to two minutes, standard - two shots per minute with control of the barrel heating sensor. Let’s mention the deployment time of “less than three minutes” and the folding time of “less than two minutes” - it seems that the standards for the American army were written by Estonians.

You can argue for a long time about the technical characteristics of guns, add to the dispute the notorious human factor in the form of combat training of crews, motivation and logistics. But, according to the author, since the military conflict has been going on for two years, only economics will fairly judge its results.

According to the 2017 contract for the Indian Armed Forces, the price of one M777 howitzer was $3,7 million, the price of a comparable towed Msta-B howitzer is approaching 30 million rubles, and the D-30A is still fighting at the front (a couple of thousand in storage) , which is estimated at 3 million rubles.

Experts estimate the Malva self-propelled gun at 2,5 million dollars; I probably won’t be much mistaken if I value the Rosehip self-propelled gun in modern realities - less than two million dollars.

Thus, on the battlefield, each individual M777 barrel can be opposed by two Rosehip self-propelled guns.

Victory will be ours, but she loves the prepared.
51 comment
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  1. +2
    3 February 2024 05: 12
    another 2 units in storage

    With this amount, you can roll the whole of Ukraine into a pancake. Where are these howitzers? wink
    1. +2
      4 February 2024 16: 51
      Unfortunately, it’s impossible, Ukraine is large and the firing range of these guns is short. And where can you get so many crews and especially shells? The question needs to be posed differently, we seem to have 1500 aircraft, where are they? When aviation starts working at full strength, topics like this will cease to be relevant, and suddenly we will see that our guns and shells are correct.
  2. -3
    3 February 2024 06: 11
    To increase the rate of fire, this hypothetical "Rosehip" urgently needs an automatic loader, especially since it is somehow difficult to find African Americans to throw shells on a tray in the Russian Federation. And to combat gas pollution, rather than fencing a garden with nitrogen blowing, it is easier to remove the roof of the tower. Protection from precipitation and splinters? Since in our time no armored vehicle risks approaching the LBS without an anti-drone “cap,” it will protect from above if it is designed correctly. On the march, you can cover it with a tarpaulin so that the heat doesn’t blow out.
    1. +1
      3 February 2024 18: 55
      The era of canvas roofs is long over. It would be better to make a “retractable sunroof for the entire roof” and walls extending from the sides, well, something like that.
      The author somehow ignored the topic of drones, but they now dictate the rules of the game. And they are just beginning to fight against them and it is not yet known who will do better. So canvas roofs don't roll.
      1. -1
        3 February 2024 19: 20
        Read carefully. I suggest an open turret with an anti-drone cap, i.e. metal, on about a meter, or maybe higher, racks, above the tower. And the tarpaulin is in addition to the cap for use on the march or in the parking lot.
        1. +1
          4 February 2024 01: 14
          The point of the cap seems to be to prevent the charge from going off immediately on the armor and piercing it, but it pierces the cap itself.
        2. 0
          4 February 2024 12: 20
          Quote: Naked Man
          And the tarpaulin is in addition to the cap for use on the march or in the parking lot.

          Tarpaulin has few advantages. a metal roof provides at least some semblance of protection from fragments and shock waves from above. In addition, the roof is the basis for installing auxiliary equipment and weapons. I hope that on the topic of drones there will be even more equipment on the roof to protect against them.
          It’s better to install a normal ventilation system, roughly speaking, a double one, than to deal with tarpaulin nonsense.
    2. 0
      7 February 2024 06: 08
      Quote: Nagan
      It's easier to remove the tower roof. Protection from precipitation and splinters?

      A regular roof fan VKR-6.3 or VTs 4-70 for the roof and a U-shaped plate to protect its connection hole.
  3. +5
    3 February 2024 06: 51
    The author mixed everything together, not realizing that artillery varies in its operational purpose.
    Why do battalions need super-duper heavy guns that require large crews, that’s why they get guns with a maximum caliber of 120 mm, and they can also fire both mines and shells. 122 mm is our “regiment”. Which at one time, yes, wanted to replace the 152,3 mm light howitzer guns PAT B and C
    1. +4
      5 February 2024 08: 38
      Quote: svp67
      The author mixed everything together, not understanding

      He tried. But unfortunately I didn’t see anything further than Motolyga. For some reason I came up with a new caliber gun (125 mm, and rifled). And the MTLB chassis with insufficient “load capacity” for the intended purpose...
      But a self-propelled gun based on the BMP-3 has already been developed. At the same time, 152-caliber, for work at the front edge / from the near rear, exactly in the battalion / regiment level. She even seemed to dream of floating. Well, what else do you need? If this development of the latest USSR is now even being prepared for production? And there is no variety in calibers - all guns are 152 mm. projectile (although they will most likely be different anyway).
      Well, from 120 mm. no one will refuse either, because they can throw mines at them. Along a steep trajectory.

      In general, “Coalition-SV” needs to be driven out as quickly as possible in a series. And the Coalition’s gun will be adapted to the Malva base as a cheaper version of a self-propelled gun that doesn’t even need a transporter.
      1. +2
        5 February 2024 09: 28
        And why the caliber 125 mm, if there is a 130 mm for the M-46 gun, which coincides with the naval one? It could be linked to the need for unification and development of new shells for the fleet. At sea, guided and cluster munitions would also be useful.
        1. +2
          5 February 2024 11: 52
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          there is 130 mm for the M-46 gun

          Thank you for remembering about her. Our “fellow travelers” have shells that fly almost 50 km, a good alternative to Western guns in counter-battery warfare. This would be an artillery unit with “wheels” from the BAZ and an automatic shell loader for ten + an AZ reloading machine based on the same BAZ, and a division of such self-propelled guns as part of the division’s artillery regiment
          1. 0
            5 February 2024 11: 58
            In a good way, such a powerful gun would need tracks, but I heard that the Akatsiya chassis is not mass-produced. So, yes, quickly you can only put it on wheels.
            1. 0
              5 February 2024 12: 26
              Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
              In a good way, such a powerful gun would need tracks, but I heard that the Akatsiya chassis is not mass-produced.

              Yes, this is not really a problem. It would be possible to take a tank base and a special tracked chassis, for example from the same TORs. But the tracked chassis loses in speed of movement, operational maneuverability, and is more expensive to manufacture and operate.
              For a gun with a firing range of 50 km, the wheelbase is just that. For movement, it will use a network of roads in the depths of the defense, both civilian and specially built roads
      2. +2
        5 February 2024 11: 40
        Quote: bayard
        But a self-propelled gun based on the BMP-3 has already been developed.

        Yes, PAT-S
        Quote: bayard
        At the same time, 152-caliber, for work at the front edge / from the near rear, exactly in the battalion / regiment level.

        This is a pure “regiment”, the 2S18 PAT-S replaced the 2S1 “Gvozdika”, for a battalion such a system is excessive, to be honest, many consider its power to be excessive for a regiment too.
        Quote: bayard
        projectile (although they will most likely be different anyway).

        Yes, they are still different
        Quote: bayard
        And adapt the Coalition gun to the Malva base

        I agree
  4. +3
    3 February 2024 07: 04
    Same situation with:

    Only here on the site they don’t make production decisions and hearing someone’s opinions is your lot... And a plus for your work...
    hi
  5. -1
    3 February 2024 07: 57
    Well, how can I say... "Malva" is a typical drink on "analognet" (from my point of view). A huge self-propelled gun with an open gun, with crews running around it. It seems that 122 mm shells are not even produced here - they are taken from warehouses. Therefore, 122 mm can be immediately crossed out. An extra skating rink on the “moto league” - there is already such an MTLB-U.
    The best option among wheeled self-propelled guns is the Coalition-SV-KSh (but expensive!). As an option, try to install a turret and BO from MSTA-S on the motorcycle league, but there is a mass difference (MSTA-S weighs about 40 tons). You can try to make not a full-fledged turret with a howitzer from MSTA, but something similar to a cabin on an MTLB-U chassis - but always with a roof - no one has canceled drones with drops.
    1. +2
      3 February 2024 13: 29
      Quote: Dmitry Ivanov_8
      "Malva" is a typical drink on "analognet" (from my point of view).

      Not the right point. The successful use of similar self-propelled guns by the enemy, the same "Bogdana" and "Caesar", suggests the opposite
      Quote: Dmitry Ivanov_8
      It seems that 122 mm shells are not even produced here - they are taken from warehouses.

      The Internet is full of photos of recently released 122-mm factory-made “old” and “new” (with improved aerodynamics) samples
      Quote: Dmitry Ivanov_8
      As an option, try installing a turret and BO from MSTA-S on the motorcycle league,

      Will MTLB withstand such mockery? And it’s not even about the large weight of the MSTA-S turret, but about the dynamic loads when firing
      Quote: Dmitry Ivanov_8
      The best option among wheeled self-propelled guns is the Coalition-SV-KSh (but expensive!).
      There is no need for such a wheeled self-propelled gun turret. The very basic wheeled chassis is very vulnerable and the armor of the conning tower or turret will not save this self-propelled gun. The salvation of this weapon is its speed of movement, deployment, rate of fire and collapse, and therefore maximum automation
  6. +3
    3 February 2024 09: 48
    At the turn of two years of a special military operation in Ukraine...

    I don't have enough education to find the answers on my own.
    When we were in Afghanistan, did we call on citizens to unite and help?
    When the Americans were in Vietnam, did US congressmen and senators call on Americans to help the military by purchasing uniforms, equipment and sending them directly to the units?
    When in America, England, France or other countries, the Minister of Defense visited factories and told newspapers that private companies were working slowly and producing few weapons?
    In which country did politicians buy real estate in countries that were potential adversaries?
    Did the British buy a lot of castles in France? Maybe the Germans bought factories in England?
    1. +1
      4 February 2024 01: 26
      Quote from Fangaro
      At the turn of two years of a special military operation in Ukraine...

      I don't have enough education to find the answers on my own.
      When we were in Afghanistan, did we call on citizens to unite and help?
      When the Americans were in Vietnam, did US congressmen and senators call on Americans to help the military by purchasing uniforms, equipment and sending them directly to the units?
      When in America, England, France or other countries, the Minister of Defense visited factories and told newspapers that private companies were working slowly and producing few weapons?
      In which country did politicians buy real estate in countries that were potential adversaries?
      Did the British buy a lot of castles in France? Maybe the Germans bought factories in England?

      I don’t know about English castles in France, but it is a fact that many of the factories working for the Reich were American property. The most egregious example is the Opel plant. Throughout the war they made equipment for the Reich and regularly sent profits to the USA (via Switzerland if you ask how). Standard Oil did the same (sending part of the profits). Standard Oil paid IG Farbeindustry. hi
  7. +8
    3 February 2024 10: 14
    Thus, if we develop and create from scratch a 125-mm rifled gun and a heavy projectile with the characteristics from the red lines of Tables 1 and 2, then we will get a full-fledged replacement for the entire fleet of towed 122-mm howitzers and self-propelled guns “Gvozdika” and “Akatsiya”./ //

    I stopped reading further. There is no point . Another project. Does the author even understand what a change in traditional caliber is? How much is this in terms of resources, time and human potential? But creating a separate batch is expensive and pointless.
    1. +1
      4 February 2024 21: 42
      Moreover, there was already a similar attempt in the form of the 130-mm M-46 cannon. There, at least the caliber coincided with the naval one.
  8. 0
    3 February 2024 11: 03
    What the author proposes is the reincarnation of the SU-76, only with an increased caliber. The idea is good with the caliber needed in modern times for the military.
    It surprises me why they don’t lengthen gun barrels, at least as an experiment, and here they write that the length of the barrel increases the firing range. The photo of the SAU-122 “Gvozdika” shows that the barrel length can be increased by ten calibers, and it will not interfere with traffic on the road.
    Maybe we don’t have anyone to deal with the design and modernization of artillery and everyone has been laid off.
    Shoigu saw what a mess it was at the factory where they make the Coalition-SV. The tests haven’t even been completed yet and not a single one has been sent to the front, and the media is lying that they are already fighting. And “Military Reception” showed it so beautifully.
    And where is she?
    1. +2
      3 February 2024 12: 07
      Increasing the length of the barrel entails the need to create a more rigid design of the artillery mount itself, more powerful gun drives, and a more rigid gun stabilization system.

      And this is an increase in the dry weight of the self-propelled guns with an automatic reduction in payload.
  9. +2
    3 February 2024 11: 06
    Not serious.Especially about the fact that “back in the mighty USSR it was decided to bury something there.” It was the USSR that was buried. In which the SS-20 RSD was produced and even 1991 mm guns were produced until 203
    Having such funds, in principle, it was possible to refuse anything else....
  10. -5
    3 February 2024 11: 30
    Good article. A note on “rational” armor angles.
    Forget those corners.
    During the Second World War, when the main means of destroying armored vehicles was the PTA, this made sense. In the era of javelins and UAVs - none. It just eats up useful volume.
    And finally put the engine where it should be. Ahead.
    Karoch, M113 is our everything. hi
  11. +3
    3 February 2024 16: 02
    The minister's decision in 2013 to replace 122-mm towed guns with 152-mm systems is certainly correct and has made an undoubted contribution to increasing both the power of ground forces artillery and its mobility on the battlefield
    D-30 weighs just over 3 tons, Msta - 7. Awesome increase in mobility.
    So it turns out that the main advantage of a tank as an artillery platform lies only in the heavy armor protection of the vehicle and relatively high mobility
    Crap! The tank fires directly (the task is not to hit the desired point with the projectile, it is enough for the projectile trajectory to pass through a directly visible target, you can hit a moving target), the projectile has high speed (huge kinetic energy), it can break through fortifications not only due to the energy of the explosion . In short, it’s like a spear and a sword: they solve one problem, but do not replace each other.
    Look at the hull of the MT-LB, it seems that the vehicle was created for the engine, and the crew is accommodated according to the residual principle.
    Yes. This is a tractor first and foremost, not a bus, not an armored personnel carrier.
    On the old model, the lower and upper frontal plates are made of 14 mm rolled armor, apparently, it was intended to provide protection against 14,5 mm KPVT bullets
    Armor penetration 14.5 over 20 mm of homogeneous armor from 800 m.
    But let’s not be distracted from the main task of creating a new transporter - to become a platform for placing a 125-mm howitzer with a barrel length of 39 calibers.
    DO NOT do this. The tractor is separate, the self-propelled guns are separate. Unification is welcome, but these are different machines with different tasks. Make it perfect for one thing and spoil it for another (at best, it will probably become bad to do both).
    When creating a new vehicle, you must initially abandon the ambitious requirement for its amphibiousness.
    Amphibiousness is not a requirement, but an opportunity. If it can be obtained at the cost of sealing the case (which will still have to be done to meet the requirements for ZOMP), then why give it up. Armor was sacrificed not for the sake of amphibiousness, but because of the capabilities of the engine and chassis.
    A developed actively reactive muzzle brake should reduce the recoil force from the action of powder gases from a powerful propellant charge by at least fifty percent.
    The price of a muzzle brake is a decrease in projectile flight speed, a decrease in accuracy, and the unmasking of the gun's position by a sharply increased shot noise and puffs of smoke. If you can do without it, then it’s better to do without it.
    The main premise for the creation of the Malva self-propelled joint stock company is considered to give the large-caliber artillery piece strategic mobility (the ability to transport heavy military aircraft in the shortest possible time over long distances) and high maneuverability in the front-line zone due to the advantages of a wheeled chassis.
    Rave. Malva weighs 30 tons, MSTA-B - 7. What is the strategic mobility? How high is the front-line maneuverability of a wheeled chassis? It is tied to the roads (I remind you - 30 tons, this is not a Niva). If the road goes to where you can finish shooting at the enemy, then everything is very good, but if not, then failure.
    1. +4
      3 February 2024 16: 49
      How high is the front-line maneuverability of a wheeled chassis? It is tied to the roads (I remind you - 30 tons, this is not a Niva). If the road goes to where you can finish shooting at the enemy, then everything is very good, but if not, then failure.

      I’ll add from myself that connection to roads is also a gift to enemy reconnaissance. If you know that a car will definitely go along a certain road, it is much easier to designate a meeting point for it with Excalibur or Himars...
      1. 0
        5 February 2024 12: 05
        Do you like to theorize? Now the supply of the enemy garrison in Avdeevka is mostly taking place along one single road. And what? The Orlovka-Lastochkino road can be reached with a 120 mm mortar. Have you managed to set up many meeting points?
        1. 0
          5 February 2024 19: 12
          Do you like to theorize?

          In this matter, I rely solely on my own experience.
          Have you managed to set up many meeting points?

          Believe me, it's enough.
    2. -2
      4 February 2024 16: 39
      Dear! You are distorting the facts in bad faith.
      Awesome increase in mobility

      In addition to the Msta-B, the quotation from the article also mentions the Akatsiya self-propelled gun, whose mobility (if by this we mean a specific power of 18,9 hp/t) is at the level of the modern T-90 tank.
      Tank fires directly

      How do you explain the massive use of tanks in the Northern Military District from closed positions?
      the projectile has high speed (huge kinetic energy), it can break through fortifications not only due to the energy of the explosion

      I have to disappoint you. The energy of the Gvozdika HE projectile, with a weight of 21,76 kg and an initial speed of 690 m/s, is only 20 percent lower than the energy of the T-90 3OF26 projectile with a mass of 23 kg and an initial speed of 760 m/s. Which is not surprising given the smaller caliber, barrel length and age difference. But the kinetic energy of the Rosehipnik OFS will exceed by 15 percent the energy of a tank shell and by 30 percent in terms of the volume of the explosive charge inside. In comparison with “Gvozdika”, these parameters will look even more impressive - 35 and 20 percent, respectively.
      Armor penetration 14.5 over 20 mm of homogeneous armor from 800 m

      You forgot to add "at right angles". The lower frontal plate of the MT-LB, 14 mm thick, is tilted to the horizontal at 45 degrees, which means that the armor thickness is exactly 20 mm. Accordingly, the top sheet has even more, which means protection is provided. For 15 mm MTLG armor, the reduced thickness of the lower and upper frontal sheets will be 23 and 86 mm, respectively, which is not bad for the frontal projection of a light conveyor. Moreover, it should be noted that there is a high probability of bullets and shells ricocheting from the armor of the top sheet located at an angle of 70 degrees from the vertical.
      The price of a muzzle brake is a decrease in projectile flight speed, a decrease in accuracy, and the unmasking of the gun's position by a sharply increased shot noise and puffs of smoke. If you can do without it, then it’s better to do without it.

      The reasoning is correct, but is it of paramount importance for self-propelled guns firing from indirect positions? On the other hand, without the simplest to manufacture and small-sized device, such as a muzzle brake, you will have to pay with a large amount of recoil of the gun barrel or the use of powerful and large recoil devices in the limited dimensions of the turret and the vehicle as a whole, which is economically unprofitable for a mass product.
      What strategic mobility?

      In a fit of righteous anger and the heat of the discussion, you probably did not understand that the author of the article is in no way a supporter of the Malva JSC and on this point I completely share your point of view. hi
      1. 0
        4 February 2024 21: 29
        Quote: Scharnhorst
        In the quote from the article, in addition to the Msta-B, the Akatsiya self-propelled gun is also mentioned
        Below is your quote. Where is Acacia? We are talking only about towed systems.
        The minister's decision in 2013 to replace 122-mm towed guns with 152-mm systems is certainly correct and has made an undoubted contribution to increasing both the power of ground forces artillery and its mobility on the battlefield

        Quote: Scharnhorst
        How do you explain the massive use of tanks in the Northern Military District from closed positions?
        Lack of normal command. They can neither suppress the enemy’s anti-tank weapons, nor provide the required quantities of artillery, nor organize a blitzkrieg. All that remains is to use the tanks this way.
        Quote: Scharnhorst
        But the kinetic energy of the Rosehipnik OFS will exceed by 15 percent the energy of a tank shell and by 30 percent in terms of the volume of the explosive charge inside.
        What makes you think that such a projectile can even be made? Read how sailors tried to make thin-walled (for space under explosives) high-velocity shells. They fell apart when fired. Maybe try to increase the length, but there will be problems with lateral loads and stabilization.
        Quote: Scharnhorst
        You forgot to add "at right angles".
        Yes, I forgot. Moreover, I never thought that Motolyga could protect against something more serious than an AK.
        Quote: Scharnhorst
        The reasoning is correct, but is it of paramount importance for self-propelled guns firing from indirect positions?
        Depends on the enemy’s counter-battery capabilities. If they are large, then it’s a good idea, but if not, then increasing the factors for unmasking battery positions is undesirable.
        Quote: Scharnhorst
        In a fit of righteous anger and the heat of the discussion, you probably did not understand that the author of the article is in no way a supporter of the Malva JSC and on this point I completely share your point of view.
        I quote again:
        The main premise for the creation of the Malva self-propelled joint stock company is considered to give the large-caliber artillery piece strategic mobility (the ability to transport heavy military aircraft in the shortest possible time over long distances) and high maneuverability in the front-line zone due to the advantages of a wheeled chassis.
        If the word “considered” was replaced with “stated” or something similar, then your attitude would be more clearly visible.
  12. +6
    3 February 2024 22: 22
    What did I just read? And who dreamed of this project in a nightmare? Mixed into a heap - horse people.... Doppler locator, backup autonomous power supply unit, and more bells and whistles. I just don’t understand, with such a layout of the fighting compartment, such newfangled wunderwaffles (which are useful, no one argues) and such a chassis, where does the author intend to place the B/C? Or will URAL carry it for self-propelled guns? I just served on Acacia and Gvozdiki, and MTLB knows how it breathes. I'm shocked.
    1. 0
      5 February 2024 18: 41
      Do not judge strictly. I offer a conspiracy theory. The author probably knows that the 125 mm caliber will not be seriously considered, but they will remember the 130 mm and the ready-made ancient M-46 cannon. He fantasizes around it, gradually suggesting its use, even if the project with mounting on a chassis is proposed at an untimely time. Five years ago we may have taken up such a project, but now the situation is difficult. At most, they can, without delay, if ammunition is available, be used in a ready-made towed version.
      1. +1
        5 February 2024 19: 19
        Unlikely. The gun will soon be 80 years old. Apart from the barrel of this gun, nothing else can be used in a self-propelled gun. And this is a completely different story. And yet, there are vague doubts about the suitability of the chassis for such a powerful gun.
        1. 0
          5 February 2024 20: 38
          Here the D-1 model of 1943 was used in the Northern Military District. The M-46 is still almost new in this comparison.
  13. -1
    4 February 2024 09: 16
    Nice, pretty well thought out article. I agree with the author's opinion.
  14. +6
    4 February 2024 15: 49
    Some kind of radical marking time. The proposal, instead of the old reliable 2S1, to develop the same thing from scratch, but in 125 mm caliber, smacks of some kind of extravagance. The question is, why is this necessary? What kind of problems will this new army solve better than the old one?
    It’s the same story with MT-LB/MTLG. Perhaps the remotorization of the MT-LB could provide a wider passage from the commander/machine gunner to the landing force. But there is no point in moving the engine into the nose of the car. The MT-LB is good on the move, not least because of its weight distribution, unlike the BMP-1. I think it’s quite reasonable to strengthen the hull armor from 12,7 mm sniper weapons (M-82). Using a caterpillar with an RMS instead of an open hinge is the same. The main gear, if they are not lying, is already set to a more human one. In short, I believe that the existing machine (MT-LB) can be completely improved without inventing a new one with the same characteristics.
  15. +2
    5 February 2024 10: 56
    Our main problem is not the caliber of guns, but the lack of reconnaissance and target designation equipment, as well as high-precision projectiles.
    Therefore, at the first stage of the SVO, batteries fired as part of batteries at stationary targets, leaving the lunar landscape, but not hitting field shelters made of concrete according to NATO standards. And when the high-precision aircraft began to fly in response, it became completely sad, and the warehouses were also knocked out of used goods.
    We cannot scout targets behind enemy lines and quickly hit them; there are no reconnaissance systems to identify firing enemy guns. There are none at all. There are no means of communication that allow you to transmit coordinates online. In such conditions, there is no point in increasing the firing range. Where to shoot?
    so far the “lancets” and “eagles” are saving the day, but this is a different type of troops in theory, unmanned reconnaissance, but where are the artillery assets?
  16. 0
    5 February 2024 18: 08
    For counter-battery warfare, first of all, we need heavy and medium strike and reconnaissance UAVs that are capable of patrolling large territories from 12 hours to several days, detecting all enemy fire weapons (self-propelled guns, MLRS, OTRK, mortars...) and either quickly destroy them or direct them on them our artillery, AVIATION, OTRK or kamikaze drones, depending on the importance of the object....
    1. -1
      6 February 2024 12: 56
      UAVs in reconnaissance and attack versions are certainly useful, but not a panacea. Six months - darkness, another six months - bad weather, the coincidence of these obstacles for most of the time of UAV operations does not bring any real benefit. And in favorable conditions for their activities, no one canceled the enemy’s electronic warfare and air defense. The artillery is all-weather, self-propelled and maneuverable. Equipping the self-propelled gun with its own locator gives an advantage in independently searching for enemy targets in any weather and time of day. Interaction with UAVs will only enhance this advantage, turning it into superiority over the enemy.
      1. -1
        6 February 2024 15: 52
        Without precise target designation from UAVs, artillery operates across areas with enormous ammunition consumption and minimal efficiency....
      2. +1
        7 February 2024 15: 12
        Quote: Scharnhorst
        Equipping the self-propelled gun with its own locator gives an advantage in independently searching for enemy targets in any weather and time of day.

        This is some kind of fantasy.
  17. 0
    5 February 2024 18: 23
    “Malva 2S43” – 152 mm rifled howitzer; 24,5 km.


    I completely agree with the author and forum members that, as presented, the Malva SAO is a useless weapon that will not allow our artillery units to gain any advantages in counter-battery warfare.
    Why do we need a new self-propelled gun with the characteristics of a 50-year-old self-propelled gun???

    Either it is necessary to produce Coalitions on a wheel base with a firing range of 50-70 km, or to massively modernize the Acacia self-propelled guns, changing them first of all to communications and target designation equipment in order to integrate them into a unified command and control system.

  18. +2
    5 February 2024 18: 51
    And what, to fence this whole garden in order to increase the caliber of the gun by three millimeters and the length of the barrel? And all this with the aim of increasing the effectiveness of counter-battery warfare? Maybe it’s easier not to chase increasing the range (sooner or later we’ll hit a dead end anyway) of a projectile’s flight, but to give this matter to drones? Moreover, the greater the range of artillery fire, the greater the dispersion. This means we need adjustable high-precision ammunition. So maybe drones are better? And there is greater mobility, and it doesn’t really matter whether the launcher is wheeled or tracked? It is better to modernize Gvozdika and Acacia and create mobile fire groups from them. Marshal Ogarkov proposed something similar for a long time, to strengthen the units with armor and firepower. Maybe it would be even better to work with shells and ammunition?
  19. 0
    6 February 2024 14: 14
    It reminds me of something - if there is no normal tank engine, then you just need to make one, moreover, at the level of the world’s best analogues and install it on all T72s.
    Just.
  20. +1
    6 February 2024 16: 13
    The rudimentary state of artillery reconnaissance is striking, as it cannot provide target designation even for existing artillery guns and MLRS.
    If the troops do not have reconnaissance UAVs, counter-battery radars, optical and acoustic detection means, then where have the usual fire adjustments gone?
    They will not have to work in the African savannah or the Amazon jungle, where it is difficult to navigate and survive???
    The headquarters are full of the most detailed maps of the adjacent territory, a familiar climate, a fairly loyal population in the regions bordering Russia, but why then for two years the artillery has been pounding a train of ammunition across the area, while 777 howitzers easily cover our warehouses, columns with equipment and artillery batteries...
    Where are the fire adjustments working behind the LBS....
  21. 0
    6 February 2024 16: 30
    Special forces and airborne forces, instead of working behind enemy lines with small and medium-sized DRGs, adjusting the fire of our artillery and aviation, sit in the trenches instead of infantry and go on frontal assaults on the endless fortified areas of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
    These fortified areas should be stormed by blockheads from the Arbat Military District...
  22. 0
    6 February 2024 16: 32
    Get tired of introducing a new 125mm gun. It is necessary to either further develop the Vienna gun or go along the path of the 777 with a lightweight 152mm gun.
    1. 0
      7 February 2024 13: 47
      With all due respect to the self-propelled gun 2S31 "Vena", it still remains a specific weapon. Due to the main drawback, such as the maximum firing range, which does not exceed 10 km (we do not consider ARS - up to 13 km), it has no chance of displacing even outdated Soviet rifled towed and self-propelled systems of comparable caliber 122 mm (D- 30A and self-propelled gun "Gvozdika"). Otherwise, 2010 years have passed since the start of the release of “Vienna” in 15, we would have already regularly seen it in reports from the front line of the Northern Military District and at parades.
      Going the M777 route with guns from Akatsiya or Msta is also not an option. They are obviously inferior to the American model in terms of propellant charge power. The volume of the charging chamber in the first is only 12,8 liters, in the second it is within 16 liters, while in the American the volume of the charging chamber is 18 liters. Therefore, even the Msta loses to the Three Axes in firing range, despite the longer barrel length in 47 calibers versus 39 for the enemy gun. Modernization of existing models may turn out to be more expensive than developing a new weapon with a new caliber, a more powerful propellant charge and on a modern production base in accordance with the realities and development prospects.
      1. 0
        7 February 2024 14: 18
        You need a 152mm howitzer with a 52 caliber barrel. 777 is a specially lightweight gun with a low barrel life. There are normal analogues on tracked chassis.