Let me express my doubts
Many Western, especially American media, at the instigation of the Ukrainian ones, naturally began to broadcast very loudly that the Russian army had used P-35 missiles against air defense positions near Odessa.
It is clear that this was presented under the premise that Russia’s missile arsenals are empty and something needs to be done. And so the P-35s removed from storage were used.
When home-grown bloggers from all over the world began to reprint the photos of “evidence” presented by the Ukrainians, that’s fine. But when publications like NI start writing about it, it even becomes a little offensive. Yes, with reservations, but they wrote it. Russia is increasingly using the old weapon, especially missiles, and those that were not originally even intended for this.
Having eaten the hedgehogs, as they say, let’s take on the rockets?
Let me disagree.
Moreover, it makes sense to understand what happened at all, because it’s a shame for the state, and there are too many factors that make you think very hard about what really arrived there.
So, the version of the Ukrainian side and everyone else: P-35 missiles from the Utes and Redut coastal anti-ship systems were used. The missiles, naturally, were repurposed to attack ground targets. Here's the evidence: something fell.
By the way, based on the photographs of the “wreckage of the P-35”: there is no exact data regarding where the rocket fell, as well as the reasons for the fall. Either the missile was shot down by Ukrainian air defense, or it fell on its own due to some kind of failure. And vice versa, there is also no information that air defense targets in the Odessa region were hit by the P-35.
In general - a set of riddles.
However, before we move on to commenting on what the Ukrainians, British, Americans and others have scribbled, it’s probably worth taking a look at what the P-35 is? And how can it even correspond to what has been written about it abroad?
The P-35 missile was created at OKB-52 of the great Chelomey and entered service in 1962. Just 62 years ago. One might say – almost not old. And at that time, it was generally quite a decent weapon, because the P-35 could fly from 100 to 300 kilometers at a speed of 1200-1300 km/h. The range directly depended on the altitude. At a minimum altitude of 400 meters and the flight distance was minimal, about 100 km, and at an altitude of 6 to 7 meters the rocket could fly up to 000 km.
The P-35 carried a high-explosive warhead weighing 560 kg, and could also carry a special one with a yield of 20 kilotons. The first warhead was intended for individual ships, the second for AUG-type formations.
The missile had a combined guidance system: radio command on the cruising leg of the flight and active radar guidance on the final leg. During the cruising phase, the rocket was manually controlled by an operator who monitored the flight using the ship's radar or coastal anti-ship missile system. That is, I emphasize, the missile had to fly above the radio horizon in order to remain in the radar field of view. The operator used radio commands to keep the missile on course and manually carried out initial guidance to the target.
About 20 km from the target, the radar homing head came into play. The missile captured the target selected by the operator with its homing head and, descending to a height of 100 meters, carried out the attack. The option of attacking ground-based radio-contrast targets was possible. In this case, the missile was also aimed by the operator and attacked from a dive at an angle of approximately 80 degrees. It was possible to fire a missile in autonomous mode, relying on data from the inertial unit, but then, as expected, it was not a matter of choosing a target and the accuracy was appropriate.
The P-35 could also be controlled using target designation signals from Tu-95D, Tu-16D aircraft and Ka-25Ts helicopters.
We understand that these planes and helicopters have not been in service for a long time, the ships on which the P-35 launchers were located have long been cut into metal, the question arises: what is left?
And the coastal anti-ship complexes “Utes” and “Redut” remained.
“Cliff” is generally a separate topic; there were only two of them: “Object 100” and “Object 101”.
“Object 101” was built in 1976 on Kildin Island, 1,5 km from the Murmansk coast of the Kola Peninsula. The complex was in service until 1995, when the regiment was disbanded, the personnel were sent to the “mainland”, and all the assets of the missile system were left on the island. Today the complex is completely destroyed; for those interested, there will be a link to a photo tour at the end of the article.
“Object 100” in Crimea consisted of two divisions built in 1971, the first was in the mountains near the village of Oboronnoye, the second was six kilometers to the east, near the village of Rezervnoye. As part of the agreement on the division of the Black Sea fleet in 1996, “Object-100” went to Ukraine. In 2002, “Object 100” was disbanded, weapons and equipment were dismantled, the division near the village of Oboronnoye was not mothballed and collapsed. The division near the village of Reservnoye was mothballed by specialists of the Navy and was preserved. In 2014, Russia reactivated the division and in 2016 introduced it into the 15th coastal missile brigade of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
Two launchers for two missiles each near Sevastopol. We will take advantage of the fact that there are enough clips of missile launches, but we will note for ourselves that flying to Odessa from near Sevastopol is more than a doubtful matter.
There still remain the Redut BPKRK, armed with the same P-35s on the chassis of the ancient ZIL-135, which were assembled in Bryansk as the BAZ-135MB. And here, too, not everything is smooth and smooth.
The composition of the Redut complex was as follows:
- self-propelled launcher SPU-35B on the BAZ-135MB chassis;
- a machine with the Scala control system (4P45);
- towed radar (usually “Cape” of various modifications);
- transport-charging machine (TZM).
What interests us most in this list is the Mys-M1E coastal radar, which was located in a towed trailer and was part of the Redut complex.
The radar was developed and produced by the Saratov Radio Instrument Plant, and this is what can be said about this radar: the maximum detection range for medium-displacement surface ships (frigate-destroyer) is up to 200 km. Anything less means that the detection distance also decreases. And yes, the radar must be higher than the radio horizon, and the missile must fly even higher, without leaving the radar beam.
Well, the accuracy of the P-35 in terms of COE ranged from 0,5 to 1,5 km.
For the sixties of the last century - quite decent. Today, of course, everything looks very dim, because it is clear how ineffective the P-35 is as a weapon. All its shortcomings can be combined into one big pile and this is what happens:
- noticeable on radar due to its size and shape;
- low flight speed will allow interception of even MANPADS;
- the rocket flies at a high (by modern standards) altitude;
- the missile does not maneuver even during the final segment of the flight, which makes it an easy target;
- the missile is guided on the cruising segment, which makes it especially vulnerable to electronic warfare;
- The seeker is focused on high-contrast “ship” type targets.
But the main disadvantage is the “short-range” radar, which limits the use of P-35 missiles over long distances. Of course, we can say that the radar was probably modernized (no), and that the missile was also not left “from the 60s.”
Yes, they didn't leave it. And there was modernization, after which a new rocket was obtained, 3M44 Progress. And this happened in 1982. The flight altitude was reduced to 25 meters, the length of the final section was increased from 25 to 50 km, and the noise immunity of the missile's communication channel with the operator was improved. The missile's flight range was increased to 460 km.
But, I emphasize, the Redut complex was designed to destroy strike groups, cruisers, destroyers, landing ships and large enemy transports. High-contrast targets, clearly visible against the background of the sea surface in the radio range.
And in 2020, Redoubt was dismissed. By 2022, the remaining launchers (8 units left) were shoved into Patriot parks, perhaps something else was left in reserve in Crimea. But it is unlikely, given the age of the rockets. Still, the use of such a missile is dangerous in principle, and there are also doubts about the operability of the control systems, the elemental base of which was forever outdated 20 years ago.
Now according to what they say there, behind the invisible line of the information front.
And everything is very difficult there. Yes, photographs of rocket debris began to appear on social networks and were actively discussed. According to unconfirmed reports, the weapon was shot down by Ukrainian air defense systems, although this was not confirmed by independent experts, and Ukrainian off-channels somehow kept silent about this victory. It is also unclear where and when the rocket fell. It is completely unclear where the launch came from, although it is clear that it was not from Utes.
What is certain is that the P-35/3M44 missiles were not previously known to have been used in the conflict. In addition to its significant size, the distinctive features of the rocket are a cigar-shaped body with an engine air intake underneath and highly swept wings that open after launch.
Okay, we've identified it. P-35, 3M44, not so important.
Returning to the missile debris, it seems likely that it is a 3M44, although it is also possible that it is a P-35 from older stock.
Here is another question: from whose reserves are the missiles? I didn’t see anything in any photo that would indicate that the missile belonged to Russia.
Meanwhile, let me remind you that from 1996 to 2014, the Utes launchers were under the jurisdiction of Ukraine. And the Ukrainian military even fired these missiles somewhere a couple of times.
Attention, question: who said that there are no reserves of these missiles left in Ukraine? I'm not talking about tens, I'm talking about units. But when the first division of the Utes was destroyed, should the missiles have been taken somewhere? To some warehouses? And who said that they weren’t taken to Lesovoe, Gorodok, Bogdanovka?
And here we come to a very sensitive moment.
Dear readers, how long has it been since we heard about the successful launches of Tochka? "Flight"? "Swift"? "Hymarsa"? S-200? In general, about successful launches from Ukrainian territory, at least something other than drones-kamikaze?
By the way, it’s especially interesting about the “Hymars”. Apparently, everything is over.
I won’t say anything, the Ukrainian missilemen tried to use to the fullest what was at the disposal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. And even if there were victories, they were caused precisely by the use of missile weapons, this cannot be denied.
But overall everything is somehow quiet. There was a splash with a landing ship, and so – drones and nothing more.
But from our side the missiles were still flying. More, less – it doesn’t matter. They are flying. And you can say whatever you want, but the fact is that Russia does not have problems with missiles, and if there are, it is not as noticeable as in Ukraine. To be convinced of the correctness of these words, it is enough to simply look through the TG channel of Shariya or UNIAN to make sure that they flew and are flying.
But on the Ukrainian side, everything is somehow more modest. Yes, drones are coming. And they cause damage. But not as significant as we would like. And obviously I would like more.
And here it is not even a theory that arises, but an outright certainty that it was not the work of Ukrainians? After all, this is not the first time they have taken something very ancient from their arsenals and tried to cause damage with it.
To strike accurately, Russia still has the Kh-101, Kh-55, and not so much, but for sure - the Kh-22 and Kh-32. And there is no need to launch an ancient missile somewhere towards the enemy with a CEP of one and a half kilometers.
Some Russian Internet experts have already choked with delight, talking about how the dismantled P-35 missile was disposed of by some Ukrainian air defense system. As always, there is no evidence, but the CEP of 500-1500 meters from the manufacturer suggests that on land such a missile can only be fired at a “City” type target. You might not get into anything smaller.
But the Russian command does not set such goals, does it? From the first day of the SVO, we were talking about the targeted destruction of important objects, but not about the haphazard destruction of urban buildings.
Why are we accused of using the P-35?
Simply because we actually used them. Like target missiles. The P-35/3M44 is simply no longer suitable for anything larger. And here's just the proof:
Actually, 2020. "Utes", the half that remained in working order and the remaining missiles were used as drones-targets for testing air defense systems during live-fire exercises.
After all, now the Russian Black Sea Fleet has much more modern coastal defense missile systems, namely the longer-range mobile 3K60 “Bal” and the supersonic mobile complex K-300P “Bastion”. The missiles of these complexes fly the same 300 km, but at a higher speed, and we’re not even talking about accuracy.
Yes, there were one-time uses of air-launched anti-ship missiles Kh-22 and Kh-32 “Storm”. And it’s clear why there were attempts to use them: enormous flight speed and a very powerful explosive charge.
However, practice has shown that despite the fact that the X-22 and X-32, in theory, have the ability to work against ground targets, they are not suitable for this. Yes, their supersonic speed, as well as their steep dive on the target, make them a huge problem for Ukrainian air defense. But the accuracy on targets (CEP 100-300 m) really left much to be desired, and after several uses, these missiles were abandoned.
And they could have gone further, because even the Ukrainian side admitted that the air defense could not intercept a single X-22.
Having more accurate missiles, pray tell, why do we need to use outright antiques? Even the 3M44 with its archaic inertial guidance system is no good, what can we say about the P-35?
Of course, this does not prohibit the other side from fantasizing. But what can I say, if they have S-300s and especially S-400s hitting houses, to be honest, I don’t even want to comment. Of course, in any war there is a place for improvisation, and the North Military District also showed that both sides can improvise.
As for this particular anti-ship missile, it seems realistic that this 3M44 (if it really is it) was tested for possible use as a cruise missile by the Ukrainian Armed Forces. And apparently, something went wrong, and the rocket simply fell due to the failure of its ancient equipment.
This perfectly explains the complete lack of information about where all this happened, because everything clearly happened at some training ground closed to the masses. Where the systems of the old rocket were tested. The check showed that 3M44 is not suitable. It’s hard to say why there was such a howl. Like a brick in an information war? Yes, it will do, but no more than that.
Frankly speaking, it is stupid to believe that “Targets in Odessa were hit by missiles of the legendary Utes and Redut complexes,” as some media outlets have already written. It is very doubtful that missiles that are more than six decades old and are aimed manually can hit anything. But it is even greater stupidity to believe that our army can do such a thing.
The only thing that bothers me is the arrival of such a rocket into another residential building. And cries about the fact that “Russia does not care about the lives of civilians.” But such a thing could easily happen, and they would poke it in our faces. Have you run 3M44? You. How are the targets? Who cares? This means, as always, Russia is to blame.
And now, after the information warriors began to celebrate the destruction of something there in Odessa with the help of the P-35... Nobody knows what, but they are celebrating from the heart. And I quietly expect another meanness from the other side. I've already seen a lot, you know.
Of course, after attracting the old ones tanks As self-propelled guns, we can say that there is nothing to be surprised by, but for some reason there is such confidence that not everything is so bad and we will not have the shame of firing museum missiles “towards the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.” And in general, museum exhibits should be in museums, but we, thank Rostec, have something to hit on that side.
Well, after the President of Ukraine signed a decree on preserving Ukrainianness in my region and neighboring ones, I think we shouldn’t be surprised at such requests.
Promised photo tour:
https://dzen.ru/a/YZmy6setzTkDm5LQ
Information