Elections in Taiwan and the positions of China and the USA

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Elections in Taiwan and the positions of China and the USA


Long day of silence


January 13 is approaching the presidential elections in Taiwan, which are considered to be one of the key points in the confrontation between the United States and China. One gets the feeling that the American, European and Chinese media themselves took a two-month break after the meeting in San Francisco. A kind of “long day of silence.”



For a long time, the leadership position of the pro-Chinese (or rather, pro-Beijing) Kuomintang party prevailed in Russian expertise. However, the fourth quarter showed that the Kuomintang itself, without a hypothetical coalition with the third Taiwanese political force - the Taiwan People's Party, does not have a clear advantage.

By the end of December, the popularity indicators of the three forces fluctuated as follows: “Kuomintang” pro-Beijing opposition (candidate – party vice-president H. Yui) – 31–33%, “Taiwan People’s Party” liberal opposition (candidate – party chairman K. Wenchtje) – 23–25%, the ruling Democratic Progressive Party (candidate – Vice President of Taiwan, Party Vice President C. Linde) – 33–35%.

From the point of view of views on geopolitics, everything is quite clear among political forces. “Kuomintang” is the choice for close relations with China with the prospect of “One country - two systems”. DPP is a choice for independence, reliance on relations with the United States and Japan. TNP is the center, the choice for equal relations with the West and the East, unification with China is a matter for the distant future and for the younger generation in general, and attention should be focused on internal problems and issues.

However, given this balance of power, optimism on the part of observers in terms of the future of the Chinese vector is quite understandable.

First, the ruling DPP was defeated in local elections last year, which meant organizational weakness in dealing with internal problems.

Secondly, the TPP's ratings were not high, and it was logical that as a result, K. Wenzhe would most likely unite with the Kuomintang in the main elections, strengthening his own and the party's positions for the future. The 6–8% that TNP could have previously brought to the candidate from the Kuomintang would have made this candidate a leader.

Nevertheless, it was precisely the focus on internal specifics that gave TNPs and their leader an exceptionally high rating at the end of the year and not a nominal, but a real third place. The coalition between the Kuomintang and the TPP did not work out in November-December. If K. Wenzhe is eliminated after the first round, then he and his party will definitely receive additional seats in the Taiwanese Diet (Legislative Yuan).

According to the results of the last elections (2020), TNP has only 5 seats out of 113. Moreover, it can receive even more than its and TNP’s official and unofficial ratings. It may, of course, not get a higher rating, but in any case its share will become significant.

The Kuomintang candidate may still get ahead if K. Wenzhe encourages his supporters to vote for him. But, firstly, this is an intrigue, and secondly, the supporters of the TNP are quite young and traditionally are not very inclined towards the Kuomintang.

The final balance of power is mathematically very similar to the alignment before the very end of the elections in Turkey, only in reverse. So, unless some radical surprise happens, such as a call for the entire TPP to vote for the candidate from the Kuomintang, then the candidate from the pro-American DPP comes out ahead in the end with 6-8% of the votes.

It seems that the United States, after the coalition did not work out, should be happy, but China should not be happy at all. However, neither one nor the other has this. China, as was clear from articles in the Chinese media, really counted on creating a coalition. But the United States, in fact, in 2024 will receive a third force, which at the moment will be more loyal to Western policy in general, but will inevitably gain, on the one hand, more and more independence, and on the other hand, with a competent and patient approach from China, will gradually “sinicize” otherwise, on the contrary, “Westernize”.

Voter K. Wenzhe does not need confrontation between the United States and China, and even in acute forms, at all. But, if everything goes as it is, then through the next municipal elections, which the Kuomintang won in 2022, TNP will strengthen its position in 2024, and K. Wenzhe, by the way, is the former (two terms in a row) mayor of the capital - Taipei .

Main direction


Thus, both the United States and China in the next years, if they want to fight for Taiwan (and they do), will have to work in the main direction for K. Wenzhe’s voter - economic. The electoral platform of the TNP is a core of 30–40 years old, the main requirement is internal economic development. By the way, the Kuomintang’s core is generally 60+ in age, while the DPP’s core is still 40–50 years old.

The United States, if it starts aggressive measures with exercises, provocations, in fact, in its traditional style, this voter will be alienated, just as the sensational and daring visit of N. Pelosi in 2022 was alienated. But if they remember that there are economic stimulation programs, a kind of new Marshall Plan, then, on the contrary, this voter will be attracted.

The situation is similar for China.

Lots of teachings, rhetoric, weapons – minus rating, more overall positive economic News – plus rating.

Each side will now have to work hard in the field of “soft power”, economic propaganda and counter-propaganda, at the same time pushing the enemy to unnecessary aggression and trying not to be provoked into it themselves.

China will have to do more to fend off negative economic forecasts than to conduct exercises with bomber flights and missile launches. At the same time, seemingly paradoxical programs such as increasing assistance through “third parties” in Japanese-Taiwanese economic cooperation on the island will be most effective. And the more such programs that Beijing stands behind, the more the United States will lose in the region. Accordingly, the opposite statement is also true for the States.

In the previous article, an attempt was made to understand the prerequisites for the US-China trade war and claims against China for violating the foundations of a “rules-based world.” The root lies in the stock markets of China and the United States - a system of connected vessels that allows Beijing to accumulate financial surpluses and absorb costs.

At the same time, the United States, which traditionally plays heavily on the information field, and the stock market is largely information signals, is good at creating negative sentiment around Chinese markets. In part, American investors themselves play on this, buying on a decline, and then, after Beijing’s injections into economic activity and consumption, selling on a recovery. But in general, official Washington can also use narratives here for foreign policy purposes.

Main narrative


One can describe the main of these narratives - China is facing a major and serious economic crisis through the stock markets.

General arguments.

Crisis and stagnation in the markets of the USA and Europe as the main foreign trade partners of China, which along the chain affects Chinese economic growth rates.

The next one is the confrontation between the USA and China, which is systemic and therefore irreconcilable (a confrontation between two systems and, moreover, value concepts).

The inability for China to continue to balance between export growth and the standard of living of the population, the growth of which reduces the attractiveness of China for investors.

Stagnation in the markets of countries classified as “developing”, which slows down the implementation of programs within the framework of the “One Belt, One Road” strategy.

Private arguments.

Reaching the peak of a large-scale housing construction program and shrinking the “mortgage bubble”, which requires reorganization of this locomotive industry. Reaching the limits of “forced” infrastructure development programs. The expansion of transport infrastructure does not lead to either its occupancy or its recoupment.

Also very popular is the alarmist thesis that the United States will soon leave all problem areas: Ukraine, the Middle East, Africa and focus entirely on China.

In this case, the task is not to analyze the statement of why and how the United States allegedly “plans to leave” Europe or the Middle East, we simply mean that such a thesis is voiced quite often. Why often? To make it more fun for investors, if you add all the above together. Well, voters in Taiwan have something to think about, such as whether China can handle domestic economic development issues, which is a priority for them.

Position of card players


In reality, the main battle between the United States and China could occur if the United States closes its stock markets to the Celestial Empire, the opportunity to work on them, cutting off financial oxygen and collapsing the Chinese stock market. And China can respond with a massive release of financial reserves to the markets of Latin America, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East, thereby dealing the United States a serious blow.

The parties are in the position of card players. Nobody knows the real reserves of China; they are like nuclear warheads. One party (hawks) in the United States says that Beijing has no real reserves, the other (moderates), such a “collective Kissinger,” believes that they do exist. If the United States strikes and China has no reserves, then China will fall into an economic abyss for eight years. If they strike and make a mistake, the United States will fail.

So far the following happens every time. When China's stock markets sag, China immediately pumps funds into domestic consumption, from where, through a series of iterations, the funds raise the stock market.

Moreover, in the past, Beijing did not hesitate to counter the decline with interventions of $450 billion. But at the same time, Beijing is clearly holding back investments in infrastructure projects and spending them carefully, although many are expecting much larger-scale investments.

So it’s up to the American planner to decide whether China has a “surplus” in the amount of the periodically discussed $7 trillion or not. No one sees the internal financial circuit in full, except for the Bank of China and the Politburo. This resource for the USA is heavier than the Chinese one fleet. However, Beijing is also in no hurry to open its cards and plays with the USA on other boards and directions.

Only a character like D. Trump can reveal the cards, and only if he agrees on the issue with almost 2/3 of the American elite, who are tied to these markets. In general, the parties prefer, even if they sometimes brandish revolvers, to prudently choose revolvers without a front sight. The United States, however, has the option to test Beijing by launching several market declines in a row and observing the reaction, but this is also dangerous because stock markets are subject to not just chain reactions, but uncontrollable chain reactions.

The fight for the Taiwanese heart will ultimately be won not by ships and armies, but by the one who offers the most generous marriage contract and is willing to wait longer than his opponent for a positive answer. Although the United States knows how to play long games, something tells us that Beijing will have more endurance here.
70 comments
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  1. +7
    12 January 2024 04: 37
    Beijing will have more patience here.
    The PRC will not get involved in a military adventure; as in the joke, they will slowly descend and take the entire herd.
    1. +2
      12 January 2024 04: 54
      Beijing needs to keep an eye on the stock market. The Americans will outwardly wave a gun, but in reality they will hit the stock market. There has been a “discussion” going on on this topic in the USA for about two months now.
      1. +5
        12 January 2024 05: 03
        Beijing needs to keep an eye on the stock market.
        It seems that Beijing knows what to do.
        1. +2
          12 January 2024 05: 07
          Maybe he knows, maybe he guesses. The main thing for us here is in our own minds, when the wave rises, they say, now the USA and China will come together in a fierce battle for the island and local seas, to understand where our neighbor might come from. Moreover, we have so much foreign trade tied to it
          1. +1
            12 January 2024 05: 12
            You know, excuse me, of course, but I don’t give a damn... about all this... Another thing that worries me is that the dollar exchange rate is fluctuating, it seems that it will fluctuate like this until March, and after the elections it will shoot up... and with it prices. .
            1. +7
              12 January 2024 05: 15
              You are an interesting person, you care about the dollar and the exchange rate, you care about prices, but you don’t care about the Chinese markets, to which all this is tied. Well, of course, I understand that I don’t care, but maybe (I hope) others don’t care.
              1. +3
                12 January 2024 05: 19
                and the Chinese markets, to which all this is tied, do not care.
                Can you personally influence China's stock markets in any way? I can’t, just like with fluctuations in the dollar exchange rate... If you can, help your Chinese comrades...
              2. +6
                12 January 2024 06: 53
                Quote: nikolaevskiy78
                You care about the dollar and the exchange rate, you care about prices, but you don’t care about the Chinese markets, to which all this is tied.

                Here’s the thing, no matter what happens to the dollar, the stock market, China and the USA, our prices will inevitably skyrocket in the spring, because the trend has been proven for decades...
                To Article:
                Nobody knows the real reserves of China... One party (hawks) in the USA says that Beijing has no real reserves, the other (moderates)... that they do exist...

                I can’t believe at all that the democrats in the Celestial Empire do not have a single “deported Cossack”, and there is no information about reserves...
                1. +2
                  12 January 2024 08: 33
                  1. China does not urgently need Taiwan. The economy is in 1st place and China is quite comfortable without Taiwan. And Taiwan’s main trading partner is China.
                  2. The PRC understands perfectly well that Taiwan itself will come without unnecessary violence and destruction of its economy, which is already part of the PRC.
                  3. Both here and there are Chinese nationalists (in the good sense of the word) who, first of all, think about the welfare of the people, the Chinese people.

                  PS. Let me remind you that there is another economically successful Chinese state in the world - Singapore.
                  1. +2
                    12 January 2024 12: 34
                    Quote: Civil

                    2. The PRC understands perfectly well that Taiwan itself will come without unnecessary violence and destruction of its economy, which is already part of the PRC.

                    Exactly so, but it’s terrible how unprofitable it is for democrats from overseas. This means they will do everything to prevent this from happening. They are already rebuilding their microelectronics industry, investing hundreds of billions. In five to ten years, the critical dependence on Taiwanese factories will be completely eliminated, and then it will be possible to sacrifice the island, as they are now sacrificing the former Soviet republic... Maybe China will return Taiwan, but at what cost...
  2. 0
    12 January 2024 05: 32
    Everyone sees China from a side that is convenient for them. Many who have visited China are not interested in politics at all. Those who are involved in politics, again, wishful thinking. I noticed one thing about China. The politicians of this country value international opinion. And at the same time, they can neglect it. China can issue a stern warning, and then release everything on the brakes. It seems to me that only Devyatov is closer to understanding China.
    1. +2
      12 January 2024 05: 39
      Devyatov fell into symbolism and metaphysics, Vavilov has the feeling that he has finally joined the general line of the mainstream. I just leave cultural aspects out of brackets, as well as metaphysics. Just a look at the numbers and, if necessary in negotiations, the transcripts and their context. Although I welcome Devyatov and his work.
  3. +2
    12 January 2024 06: 01
    The relationships are shown both how and what they influence. Good analytics!
    1. +2
      12 January 2024 06: 28
      Edward, thank you for your high assessment of the work! hi
  4. +2
    12 January 2024 07: 58
    "the confrontation between the United States and China, which is systemic and therefore irreconcilable (the confrontation between two systems and, moreover, value concepts)."

    Why did it happen?

    IMHO, there is no systemic crisis, China does not impose its ideology, it does not even promote it. “China is a radish, red on the outside, white on the inside” (I think Stalin).

    The meaning of the confrontation between the United States and China is, firstly, the vacuum of influence that arose after the collapse of the USSR; the world cannot be unipolar, it is becoming bipolar, and China fills part of the vacuum that the United States did not manage to fill. When influence is divided, equilibrium will occur, competition will move from acute to chronic.

    Secondly, the crisis is a purely economic dispute between “employer” and “employees” about the limits of power of some and the rights of others. No one has any interest in destroying an opponent, but only in curbing his appetite.

    Value concepts in this case are a tool of influence, not a goal. China pursues policies based on national interests, as understood by the ruling circles, and not on abstract ideological goals. The USA is doing the same.
    1. +1
      12 January 2024 11: 09
      Value concepts in this case are a tool of influence, not a goal. China pursues policies based on national interests, as understood by the ruling circles, and not on abstract ideological goals. The USA is doing the same.

      In the case of the USA, value concepts, an instrument of influence, are essentially the same thing - Egoism, in the complete absence of abstract ideological goals.
    2. +1
      12 January 2024 11: 09
      Value concepts in this case are a tool of influence, not a goal. China pursues policies based on national interests, as understood by the ruling circles, and not on abstract ideological goals. The USA is doing the same.

      In the case of the USA, value concepts, an instrument of influence, are essentially the same thing - Egoism, in the complete absence of abstract ideological goals.
      1. +1
        12 January 2024 12: 11
        What if, upon reaching a certain level of personal well-being, the demand for this very “ideological component” drops sharply? I mean specific people who, to a certain extent, create policy in democratic states.
        In principle, wealth and its increase is a way to minimize the discomfort of need, simplify life,expanding personal choices. In this situation, increasing wealth and opportunities always takes us AWAY from ideology, at best leaving a small set of “ideas” from it.
        Ideological pumping is a turbo mode or stress that we need to achieve our goals. If most of the individual goals (which in turn are evaluation markers for the majority) are achieved, the turbo mode loses its meaning.

        So, in my opinion, it cannot be said that this exclusively pernicious influence of the United States creates unprincipled hobbits - they themselves are formed in conditions of sufficient satiety. We don’t blame Newton for the fact that physics is what it is :-)
        1. +1
          12 January 2024 12: 21
          Thanks for the detailed answer. However, ideology is not just the satisfaction of the food instinct, but is an algorithm program for the implementation of the social (herd) instinct, where each member of society in a certain situation is assigned a specific role.
          1. +2
            12 January 2024 12: 31
            You know, I'm very... I love analogies with physics or chemistry - analogies of processes. Here, in the crystal structure, each cricket knows its nest only up to a certain temperature. Since temperature is a positive thing, it can be made an analogy for income.
            The temperature reached a certain point - and the crystal straightened out and turned into liquid form. In a liquid, each element is associated only with its surroundings. And even higher - and into a gaseous form - and there are no longer any connections with each other.
            Of course, such an analogy is not completely applicable to life, but the general essence is quite clear - collectivism is promoted by unsuitable, difficult conditions - if they improve (objectively) and personally (subjectively), the “crystal” will become a “melt” or “liquid”, traditional for communication lattices or spikes will cease to exist according to the same laws as in physics.

            I believe that it is access to opportunities and the expansion of personal material resources that separates people, breaking the “crystalline lattice” or at least rebuilding it qualitatively differently. A “crystal” cannot exist in the future - it exists in the past (when it was built according to the conditions) or in the present (if it has just been formed), therefore, connections will be lost like an avalanche as soon as a certain level of well-being is achieved. Of course, they can return if it worsens - but you shouldn’t hope that this is some kind of “natural situation”.
            1. +3
              12 January 2024 12: 47
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart

              I believe that it is access to opportunities and the expansion of personal material resources that separates people, breaking the “crystalline grid”

              The idea is original, but reasoning in the aspect I have proposed must begin with the need of people to realize the instinct of dominance. We live in a world of symbols, so the 600th Mercedes in the 90s was a symbol of “steel eggs” laughing, Adidas sneakers in the 80s said that you are cool, etc... The function of ideology is to unite people by systematizing and introducing a certain symbolism into the public consciousness. With the right approach, it will not matter whether you are rich or poor, a sign of dominance should be the Willingness to stand up for society
            2. +1
              12 January 2024 14: 23
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              ,I'm very. I love analogies with physics or chemistry - analogies of processes.

              Here I simply have to argue. Man is not inanimate matter; man has consciousness. The methodology for studying man and society should be based on the sciences that study man and society, on human studies. These are, first of all, sociology, political science, political economy, ethnology, psychology, history (there are several of them), etc. There are many of these sciences and not all of them are known to the general public.
              Natural sciences are not suitable for studying and understanding human society.
              1. +2
                12 January 2024 14: 35
                Man and everything in him exist thanks to chemical and physical processes. In a literal sense, everything completely depends on them. Often these are indirect connections of a very long length, but ultimately each point of these connections is physics and chemistry, that is, the interaction of inanimate elements.
                To explain the Particulars, the sciences you listed are much better suited - they will explain why some Breivik went and killed a bunch of people for reasons of headache and social protest. This is beyond the power of the “natural sciences,” which would perceive it as an inanimate object. However, the higher the level than one we move to, the better these same “natural sciences” are suitable for explanations.
                Because here individual elements cease to behave like “quantum particles” and fall under classical mechanics.
                I understand that such a mechanistic picture of the world destroys openwork, highly spiritual models, but there is a picture of the world that we “like” and there is one that approaches “the way it is.” Here you need to look from different angles, from yours, from mine - the main thing is the result, i.e. the most useful and applicable modeling that provides prognosis.
              2. 0
                15 January 2024 08: 08
                Quote: populist
                Natural sciences are not suitable for studying and understanding human society.

                How are these not good? and ethology? laughing
                1. 0
                  15 January 2024 09: 51
                  Interest Ask. Have you interacted with pets? In ethology there is zoopsychology. So it's not really natural science. wink
            3. +1
              12 January 2024 14: 32
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              the essence is quite common - collectivism is promoted by unsuitable, difficult conditions - if they improve (objectively) and personally (subjectively), the “crystal” will become a “melt” or “liquid”, the connections traditional for a lattice or soldering will cease to exist

              Ideology and people are a big and interesting question. What is the place of ideology in the life of humanity?
              An ordinary person in ordinary life may not notice ideology at all, but ideology lives in his brain and ideology often guides his actions. A person absorbs ideology “from a young age” and does not notice it himself.
              Ideology is what cements society, and a person cannot live without society, even if that person’s society consists of only a few family members.
              1. +1
                12 January 2024 14: 52
                Do we still live in Society? I mean, is it acceptable to equate the current “Society” with the “Society modeled after Lenin’s times,” for example?
                Many people say that “society is an organism,” but in what form is this organism now? Can we assume that its structure has not changed over time, when all these postulates were derived?
                For example, I watch Western TV series, they appeal to me much more than ours, I listen to Western music - it’s much more pleasant to me than ours. I read translations of Western literature and articles - they write about complex and interesting things much more often and more than ours. I buy Western or products and equipment produced using Western technologies and equipment, I use Western programs and architectures in everyday life, a significant part of me is formed by images that were generated by the West and its cultural product. The question is - WHAT society am I part of? By what criteria to judge - by “formal registration”, by “self-identification”, by “filling”? Or do you view the concept of “society” in an extremely narrow way - as a collection of people in close proximity and direct interactions?

                And so, continuing the reasoning above - here I am (not just me - I’m now talking about an abstract person) completely existing in Western society, not being in it and not needing this very “cementation”. It supplies me with the products of most of my needs, I only need interaction with those around me to get money for all this and some limited carnal and aesthetic needs (some have more, some have less).
                Please tell me why I need any ideology in such a design? This will be an additional hemorrhoid on my butt, an element alien and unnecessary to me personally, negatively or neutrally affecting my life and in no way affecting the quality of my work or earnings. In the time of Ilyich, everything was simple - you swim up to your ears in the environment where you were born, but now a person can even work “across the border”, physically being on this side.
                So you talk about the family and draw a parallel with society - I’ll ask you “why does the family need ideology?” . Everything exists beautifully without it. Maybe you and your friends need an ideology, and its absence prevents you from being friends? :)

                I think the theses you voiced are significantly outdated. I advise you to meditate on their relevance in the modern world - this does not mean that I am 100% right. Everything just flows, everything changes, and perhaps Hippocrates’ views on medicine are no longer the same hi
                1. +2
                  12 January 2024 15: 36
                  Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                  For example, I watch Western TV series, they appeal to me much more than ours, I listen to Western music - it’s much more pleasant to me than ours. I read translations of Western literature and articles - they write about complex and interesting things much more often and more than ours. I buy Western or products and equipment produced using Western technologies and equipment, I use Western programs and architectures in everyday life, a significant part of me is formed by images that were generated by the West and its cultural product

                  Doesn't it mean that you are under the rule of Western ideology? After all, be that as it may, in our country they describe something complex and interesting, the music is not bad, books and technology are sometimes no worse than Western ones, so why do you choose foreign ones?

                  Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                  So you talk about the family and draw a parallel with society - I’ll ask you “why does the family need ideology?”

                  The family, as a small society, is also permeated with ideology. All families are mathematically almost similar: dad + mom + 1,2,3 children..., but upbringing, the meaning of existence, habits and the final result of the existence of any family are shaped by ideology, which is why they are so different. And when they now say that there is no ideology, at least in our country, I laugh. Yes, it simply goes off scale everywhere, in every TV series and song, in every commercial and speech by a politician, instructions from a microwave oven - everywhere this or that ideology shapes our consciousness, programs our desires and actions.
                  1. +1
                    12 January 2024 16: 20
                    Doesn't it mean that you are under the rule of Western ideology?

                    Not at all, because I am free to choose and choose without coercion and ostracism - what comes to me from the Western case I consume, what doesn’t come to me I ignore.
                    If a suitable analogue of comparable quality appears, I change my preferences based on aesthetic, mercantile and functional advantages and not because “in Grandfather Pakhom’s garden the apples are the sweetest.” There are quite objective parameters for the sweetness of apples, and I don’t need ideology to evaluate it myself and not through someone else’s mouth.

                    After all, be that as it may, in our country they describe something complex and interesting, the music is not bad, books and technology are sometimes no worse than Western ones, so why do you choose foreign ones?

                    I just gave an example, although I actually like Western cultural products more. The fact is that this product is born (not all of it, of course, but a significant share) in conditions of much greater competition than ours. And accordingly, it turns out to be much more intricate and high-quality - due to the laws of competition. I recognize some things that we do better (a number of documentaries and films about war, a number of old technical literature) as qualitatively better examples - but for me this is an assessment approaching an objective one, i.e. I can explain in as much detail as possible WHY exactly this is better analogs. And by analogy with Grandfather Pakhom’s garden, I will like this or that garden because of the list of attractive details, and not because it is Grandfather Pakhom’s garden.

                    The family, like a small society, is also permeated with ideology

                    Not pierced. Families are damn different. Sometimes people simply coexist under one roof, having completely different visions of the world and the “common territory” between them is negligible, but this does not interfere with interpersonal relationships.
                2. +2
                  12 January 2024 18: 34
                  Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                  Please tell me why I need any ideology in such a design?

                  Unfortunately I had to interrupt this interesting conversation for a while, but I would have written the same thing as FIR FIR (Alexa) in the post dated 15:36.
                  You cannot understand or accept the fact that a person absorbs ideology almost from the moment of his birth and by adulthood this ideology is more or less formed. Choosing an ideology at a conscious age. a person simply exchanges one for another if he has such a desire. Only crazy people and children - Mowgli - have no ideology.
                  It is worth noting that we have now gone through the second round of the debate “you need an ideology - you don’t need an ideology,” and maybe even the third.
                  1. +1
                    12 January 2024 19: 04
                    Still not agreeing with you in your thesis, I became interested - how would you personally formulate what this very “Ideology” you are talking about is? It happens that when people talk about the same thing they mean different things - in my understanding, Ideology is complex forcibly implanted ideas designed to bind the participants of this complex into a certain system corresponding to the postulated ideology and impose on them a certain unified vision on a wide range of issues.

                    The fact that it can surround a person is not synonymous with the word “absorbs”. A metal ball in water does not absorb water. When you are in an environment saturated with ideology(s) and, depending on your own needs or tastes, you take or use at your own request and necessity certain elements of these ideologies - to write these ideologies in their entirety or even approximately into what you have “absorbed” is, I would say, a huge assumption.

                    And in a segmented form, “ideology” is as safe and useless (from its meaning) as a disassembled mine. If a person has enough brains and is inclined to think about the essence, purpose and utilitarian usefulness of the things around him, he will disassemble this bullshit (ideology) and any other “ideologies” and take the necessary parts from them, and throw the rest away as garbage. If a person does not have enough of this and is generally limited or prone to excessive romanticism and romanticization, then yes, he will swallow the entire case and its elements will take place in his closet in the order it was intended by the tadpoles who formed this ideology.

                    So, I do not consider Ideology useful in modern society, precisely for the reasons that I outlined above in the discussion. You, of course, can be, like a metal ball, in the “ideological waters” of some third-party plantings, but the sources of information filling you are so diversified and abundant that your closet, firstly, will already be quite full of any important Ideas for you from different sources. and it’s not a fact that those offered by ideology will be able to compete with this, and secondly, your contact with the directly saturated environment can be minimized. Now there is a huge mass of people who don’t watch TV, and they don’t really care about all the trash, laziness, buzzing and fluctuations that happen. They have many environments and sources to choose from, from which they themselves will build their own picture of the world and value case. Apart from direct forceful imposition, the state has no tools left to influence this - well, if we consider this, then the thesis about the “usefulness” of ideology takes on a certain masochistic connotation am
                    1. +1
                      12 January 2024 22: 56
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      How would you personally formulate what this very “Ideology” you are talking about is? It happens that when people talk about the same thing they mean different things -

                      Yes, I saw a discrepancy in the presentation of the very concept of ideology. But, as often happens in discussions, it starts with one point and immediately spreads to 2-3-5-10-20. Well, let's start correcting names, as the Chinese say.
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      Ideology is a complex of forcibly implanted ideas designed to bind the participants of this complex into a certain system corresponding to the postulated ideology and to impose on them a certain unified vision on a wide range of issues

                      Your definition of ideology is both correct and incorrect at the same time. It is true that ideology is a system of ideas (values).
                      But with forced introduction everything is much more complicated. Forced entry does not always happen. Historical examples: Lutherans in Europe, Bolshevism in Russia, minorityism in the modern West.
                      And even if forced introduction occurs, then after a while many such ideologies are perceived as their own, primordial. Dozens of generations live in these imposed ideologies for centuries and even millennia. Parents raise their children in these no longer imposed ideologies.
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      A metal ball in water does not absorb water

                      Of course, but a person is not a ball of metal. A person has perceptions, consciousness, knowledge, skills, interests and responsibilities.
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      . If a person has enough brains and is inclined to think about the essence

                      You rate the person very highly. You probably live in a highly intelligent society.
                      35% of any society are conformists. Conformists do not develop their own opinions, but join the dominant one, or the opinion that seems to them to be dominant. This is data from another human science - sociology.
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      They have many environments and sources to choose from, from which they themselves will build their own picture of the world and value case.

                      Well, they will build their case from Westernism (Zinoviev) or from something else. After all, you can’t take it from nothing.
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      Apart from the direct imposition of force, the state has no tools left to influence this

                      Manipulation of consciousness. If they can, of course.
                      1. 0
                        12 January 2024 23: 39
                        And even if forced introduction occurs, then after a while many such ideologies are perceived as their own, primordial

                        And I wrote about this, maybe not here, but it’s the planting of something alien, in order to later appeal to this alien as original. That is, this is a “brain decoy” - it’s disgusting, generally speaking :-) And the fact that you are so calm about the fact that this can be achieved through violence is also not cake.
                        So, you know, if you think about it - well, according to this logic - you can, like the mountaineers, steal a bride, take possession of her by force, and then MAYBE be patient and fall in love. Well, or just “endure it”. There’s something savage about this, don’t you think?

                        Of course, but a person is not a ball of metal

                        It depends on what kind of person. The average person, of course, collects various garbage from everywhere and eats what they give, so to speak. But we want it to be better, don’t we? Or should it be better at absorbing a certain thing, like a pad? Then, however, he will not be better, but “more suitable.”


                        You rate a person very highly

                        Actually - low, potentially - high. If we want a better society than what we have, we will not get it through deception and manipulation. The current state of affairs is largely to blame for stupid and very stupid people who indulged out of ignorance and stupidity. More advanced people are oppressed and forced to play by these stupid rules - their attempts to improve things are empty, because there are also those who are satisfied with the current architecture. However, the different levels of existing states indicate that through intelligence and perseverance it is possible to improve this situation - moreover, even the best available has room for improvement. Therefore there is potential.

                        Well, they will build their case from Westernism (Zinoviev) or from something else. After all, you can’t take it from nothing.

                        I gave you an analogy with a dismantled mine. It is no longer a "mine" - it is a collection of parts. You may also have a disassembled food processor, TV, and cement mixer. And you can build from them (for yourself) a lot of things that are not even close to resembling their original forms. If you are a Creator. Well, if you are just a Consumer, you can consume what is ready, although it is not clear what the brain is for then.

                        Manipulation of consciousness. If they can, of course.

                        It is in our interests that they fail) Because there are a lot of examples “around and in” of what selective, unbraked game systems are ready to stuff into people’s heads for the sake of some momentary benefits. Where is the guarantee that in a system with great power some madman with cannibalistic ideas will not appear? No one will give you such guarantees - so you must be as strong as a metal ball. Your values ​​are only yours, your ideology is only what YOU want to believe. You have only one life and everything will exist as it has always existed - it will stuff you like pepper or not, it depends on you. At least something depends, my God :-)
                        So why give this right of yours to someone other than yourself?
                      2. 0
                        12 January 2024 23: 47
                        It is true that ideology is a system of ideas (values).

                        Insanely short - so much so that the essence of where and WHY ideology comes from is lost. It appears from the pen of tadpoles, whose goal is to coo you about this or that so that you “voluntarily and with song” do what you would otherwise have to to force do it at a cost. So that you have faithful representations - but true not from an objective or value-oriented point of view, but from the point of view of “ideologists”. Resp. from their point of view, your personal values ​​and life experiences may seem like garbage and heresy - it turns out that part of your personality and you is “heresy and garbage” for them. Well, how can you eat such a hat? :) It should be driven away with these same rags, just like those who are trying to impose such things. Who gave the right to someone to decide for others? Why is he suddenly an authority - did he invent a cure for cancer or cold thermonuclear poison?) But no, some Leo Tolstoy sits and writes for you with his pen how you should treat things, despite the fact that it is not at all necessary that he smarter than you or has more life experience. Maybe he’s just talking nonsense, and then people with serious and trusting faces will rub it in on you wink
                        All this is ridiculous, and also empty. Archaic for fools or from the times when books were written by hand on calfskin. It's a different era now.
                    2. +2
                      13 January 2024 07: 25
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      If a person has enough brains and is inclined to think about the essence...

                      You are reasoning based on your own capabilities/education/age... But as the commentator above correctly wrote to you, ideology influences a person from early childhood (I’m not afraid to say), shaping his worldview/habits long before he himself is able to analyze. And, adjusted for the current level of education, up to 80% of people are at least completely unable to identify the essence...
                  2. +2
                    12 January 2024 19: 19
                    P/s at one time I had an idea for an article “Idea but not Ideology”, just for VO, but after weighing it, I came to the conclusion that my views are too radically different from the established ideas about things of the local respectable public and it is unlikely to be useful .
                    Ideologies that are repeatedly and powerfully instilled, very good. for a long time and thoroughly they forced and cut the brains of the population of our country - well, right? :) Do our people now look happy, contented, harmonious? Maybe life is good? Maybe we built something for which so many navels were torn off, foreheads were broken and waste paper was trashed? NeD. All this was empty, temporary, gobbling up a lot of resources for stupid magnetizations this way and that. Systems unpathetically ended before their loyal subjects could see success - and the legacies of previous “ideologies” only interfered with subsequent ones and contributed to the separation of people on ideological grounds (in addition to all others, of which there are a million).
                    So this is garbage, it can be easily replaced by just an Idea or several Ideas. The idea is not implanted because it is not a complex - it is a Thesis. For example, the idea of ​​achieving a European standard of living in the Russian Federation - who would be against it, tell me? :)
                    Can’t this wonderful idea move society as effectively as the tarpaulin boot of ideology in F - if there are adequate people and professionals in power?
                    1. +1
                      12 January 2024 23: 21
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      P/s at one time I had an idea for an article “Idea but not Ideology”, just for VO, but after weighing it, I came to the conclusion that my views are too radically different from the established ideas about things of the local respectable public and it is unlikely to be useful

                      How about checking yourself? Or maybe someone can clarify something, give some advice, etc.
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      Ideologies that are repeatedly and powerfully instilled, very good. for a long time and thoroughly they forced and cut the brains of the population of our country - well, right?

                      Big topic, very big. What period of history is taken - 100, 200, 300 years? There have been great achievements and terrible disasters.
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      It was all empty, temporary, and consumed a lot of resources.

                      I don't think so. Truth is concrete.
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      and the legacies of previous “ideologies” only interfered with subsequent ones

                      Maybe it’s not about ideologies, but about people or something else.
                      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                      if there are adequate people and professionals in power?

                      Who will let them in there? We need a struggle, again ideology.
                      1. +1
                        13 January 2024 00: 11
                        How about checking yourself? Or maybe someone can clarify something, give some advice, etc.

                        Yuri, it may seem that I like to argue or convince - but this is not so. This is damn energy-intensive) I have long been convinced that I do not have enough Qi to waste it on activating the cerebellum in those who managed to live their lives without using it in three dimensions. Sometimes, however, I get itchy, but, thank God, it’s less and less. Although polemics help sharpen beliefs and their logical constructions, it’s really easier for me to comment than to unload my “specific picture of the world” in articles.

                        There have been great achievements and terrible disasters.

                        If we take a period further than 100 years, then “great achievements” were achieved by extracting kefir and fermented baked milk from people, and they survived and multiplied at the same time.
                        And for a significant period of history, there was practically no ideology as such (except for religion, perhaps) - some people simply came and took everything they could take, and then rode off into the sunset. Their flags were different, and their faces were different too. That's the whole difference, in general.

                        I don't think so. Truth is concrete

                        Yes, there is nowhere more specific - I have been observing for some time how differently activated pawns with this very “ideology” in their heads cannot form a united patriotic front - simply because they are Leftists, Liberals, Monarchists, Navalnists * (*blabla, forbidden) , despite the fact that they all have two eyes and understand that everything is not ice. But their mothers and fathers raised them differently, and they also read a lot of different books, so, like the builders of the Tower of Babel, it is easier for them to chop each other with trowels than to build another floor.

                        maybe it’s not about ideologies, but about people or something else

                        Well, as I say, it aggravates an already huge problem. Why nurture something that doesn’t make it easier but makes it worse?

                        Who will let them in there? We need a fight, again ideology

                        Is it necessary? This is potentially also a lot of letters and brevity, alas, is rarely mine. For centuries, women gave birth a lot, but the strongest survived. Then means appeared that helped them live to a ripe old age. Then they began to use these means to save those who, from the point of view of nature, should not have survived. This is what you call "struggle", an analogy for this struggle. But what in the end? These survivors began to produce even less healthy offspring, and then, in turn, even less healthy ones. The struggle is getting worse - but what is the prize in this struggle? So, tell me, what is the analogy of the prize in the endless struggle for a system in which there is always something through a certain place? Maybe everything should turn out the way it should - and come to where it so stubbornly breaks through the corpses of caring patriots? If the “unhealthy” is so strong that the “healthy” no longer has any advantages, is it possible to save the patient? And is it necessary? Based on the global example, we see that yes, sometimes states took things in the wrong direction. But healthy forces in society, in the end, prevailed - and those states that are now successful are an example of this. And where they did not prevail, they went down in history.

                        So this is a big question - can we reverse the trend with our actions from ANY of its states. I don’t have a definite answer to this question - maybe you have one? Just please, no lofty nonsense like “There is no fate except the one we write.”
                      2. +1
                        13 January 2024 14: 05
                        It is quite difficult to discuss with such different and often opposing pictures of the world. The discussion breaks down into many topics that require lengthy discussion and clarification. Therefore, only on the main aspects.


                        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                        So this is a big question - can we reverse the trend with our actions from ANY of its states. I don’t have a definite answer to this question - maybe you have one?

                        It is impossible to reverse the trend from any condition if we consider it from a historical perspective. There are force majeure circumstances or the point of no return may be passed. Machiavelli, for example, wrote that a corrupt people is no longer good for anything.
                        The current trend in Russia can still be changed for the better, but it is no longer easy, since there are many unfavorable circumstances.
                        If by “we” we mean only people who are “sane” and capable of acting, then this will not be enough. We need people like them in power, which is doubtful.
                        Overall the situation is bad, but it can still be changed.
                        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                        Yes, there is nowhere more specific - I have been observing for some time how differently activated pawns with this very “ideology” in their heads cannot form a united patriotic front - simply because they are Leftists, Liberals, Monarchists, Navalnists * (*blabla, forbidden) , despite the fact that they all have two eyes and understand that everything is not ice.

                        How long have you been watching? I'm with 0 (1991) or even with - 3 (1988)
                        The last time a united patriotic front was represented by Grudinin was in the last presidential election.
                        Leftists, Liberals, Monarchists, Navalnists* (*blabla, forbidden)

                        Here patriots and outright enemies (the latter and some of the latter) are mixed together.

                        And the last.
                        You have some kind of fear, fear, horror of any ideology. There have been cases in history when someone else’s ideology, imposed by force, was a good thing, and one’s own was a great evil. Examples are the modernization of Peter the Great in Russia or the Meiji Restoration in Japan.
                      3. +1
                        13 January 2024 14: 34
                        Overall the situation is bad, but it can still be changed

                        Optimism...is it justified? Or is it simply irrational, "faith".
                        But I agree - this is a debatable issue, here I am in the position of Charles Darwin, who managed to be a believer at the same time and, having collected facts, outlined a concept that was absolutely contrary to his faith.
                        However, in such moments the best principle of existence is “Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.”

                        How long have you been watching?

                        Specifically, now I had in mind the most recent attempt - the Club of Angry Patriots. I even wrote an article about it here. I didn’t have time to write, one might say, the monarchists from “Ordinary Tsarism” immediately fell off, and a couple of weeks later Gubarev “messed up” Strelkov. I don’t delve too deeply into the details of all this after the arrest of Igor Ivanovich, but from my sofa a significant part of the effort turned into Sodom. More than a year of actual war had no effect on the traditional habits of many people, only reasons to look for a fight and start drowning each other with gusto.

                        Here patriots and outright enemies are mixed together (the latter and some of the latter)

                        Within the framework of the PKK, they tried to unite leftists, moderate leftists, monarchists (sic!) and statists. So I can’t speak for everyone, but against the background of this, the “hostility” of many liberal-minded people to all this seems rather abstract. For example, I am very skeptical of the current left and even more skeptical of the radical left, I also share a lot of so-called “liberal values,” but this does not prevent me from observing their activities with some sympathy and a degree of empathy. Not all “liberals” are Shenderovich and Khodorkovsky; now this movement is decapitated, discredited and decentralized. However, it is based on simple things - that freedom is better than bondage and that activity should be constrained only by objectively necessary restrictions. It's hard for me to disagree with this!

                        Do you have some kind of fear, fear, horror of any ideology?

                        I saw that in history some people did with the brains of others. And I don’t believe that this will not happen again - worse, I admit that it will happen again worse. I have no desire to play in this play; if they start staging it, I’m fine as is.
                      4. +1
                        13 January 2024 19: 23
                        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                        Overall the situation is bad, but it can still be changed

                        Optimism...is it justified? Or is it just irrational, "faith"

                        The optimism is partly justified. This is how I see the situation. There are still opportunities. Will these opportunities be used? Who knows?
                        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                        Specifically, now I had in mind the most recent attempt - the Club of Angry Patriots. I even wrote an article about it here.

                        I read the article. After the article, I went to the KRP website and followed the events for some time.
                        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                        much of the effort turned into Sodom. More than a year of actual war had no effect on the traditional habits of many people, just looking for reasons to quarrel

                        It seems that the habit of arguing has nothing to do with it in this case. Most likely, powerful pressure was exerted on the PKK, represented by individual participants. People's hero Strelkov is not liked in the Kremlin. This would all happen after the elections, but in a somewhat moderate form.
                        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                        Not all “liberals” are Shenderovich and Khodorkovsky

                        Yes, not all. There is a liberal Khazin, like a liberal Delyagin, a funny liberal Stepan Demura (a liberal-nationalist), and others. That’s what I wrote - some of the liberals.
                        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                        And I don’t believe that this will not happen again - worse, I admit that it will happen again worse.

                        This is already being repeated in full and in all directions. In the USA and in the West in general, power has been seized by a gang of crazy people.
                3. +1
                  13 January 2024 14: 38
                  Where did you get the idea that they have better TV series, literature, articles, etc.? This is how people fall under the influence of Western propaganda and begin to criticize everything they own. At the same time, forgetting that in the “prosperous” West LGBT people also flourish, abnormal tolerance (including in TV series and literature), commercialism, selfishness (all for oneself and not for the homeland), hatred of non-Western countries (Russians and Chinese, for example, always show up as enemies) and way of life (do you not have democracy yet? then we are flying to you). This mistake has already been made once, and as a result the USSR collapsed.
                4. 0
                  15 January 2024 08: 18
                  Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                  perhaps Hippocrates’ views on medicine are no longer the same

                  Hippocrates had an excellent scientific work - recommendations for the reduction of a dislocated hip joint. From a modern point of view - impeccable! for that time! Views do not change if they are scientific. Read Aristotle - about the nature of things... an exclusively scientific approach! Your crystal lattice analogy method must be complemented by synthesis and analysis. If a person is an atom, then what is temperature?
                  1. +1
                    15 January 2024 11: 37
                    Good day!) I also wrote there that in this analogy, temperature is an analogue of income, an increase in financial capabilities and, in general, wealth. Everything is like with an atom - low temperature and fluctuations are negligible, you are “pinned to the spot” by circumstances and a range of possibilities. It increases - and the range of fluctuations expands, that is, the range of possibilities - including entering into reactions, changing location (at a sufficient temperature). Let's just say that personal variability is increasing.
                    1. 0
                      23 January 2024 10: 26
                      I strongly disagree! What to do with the situation of money shortage? When does a person decide to commit a crime for their sake? As one of my friends, a law professor, said, crime is a normal reaction of normal people to abnormal conditions of existence. A shortage of money can drive a group of people out onto the street, and personal variability occurs when using a tractor or a baseball bat for other purposes laughing
                      1. +1
                        23 January 2024 12: 08
                        What to do with the situation of money shortage? When does a person decide to commit a crime for their sake?

                        Do you want me to explain this through physical analogies? The crime can be explained through ions - under the influence of media, some of the atoms tend to leave the environment and take with them part of its total energy. This may not be the most correct analogy, but society is not a closed system - it is surrounded by other systems and interacts with them, losing and gaining.

                        In general, what do you mean by crime? I personally divide the law into “approaching what is objectively necessary for the safety of society,” “approaching what is objectively necessary for the preservation of the state,” and “the fluctuation part generated by lobbying and defective ideas.” The last part, from the point of view of the law (at some point) may be “sort of criminal”, without actually being criminal - it IS declared criminal, so to speak. Well, it’s like, for example, declaring you a polar bear - you won’t become one, will you? But some of those around you and the defective system will do their best to pretend that you are a polar bear.
                        For example, in the USSR, a crime was what we today call a form of private enterprise or intermediary operations. Or, for example, homosexuality. Some kind of discussion activity, like what we are doing now, was also “criminal” during a certain period. Now, for example, people who have not killed anyone and can only intimidate their cat are being tried and imprisoned for terrorism.
                        It follows from this that it is necessary to divide the concept of “crime” into an objectively meaningful act and a subjective dummy declared as such.

                        A shortage of money can drive a group of people out onto the street, and personal variability occurs when using a tractor or a baseball bat for other purposes

                        A good analogy for this is “tin embrittlement”, the so-called “tin plague”, which, with a drop in temperature (an analogue of income and well-being), recrystallizes into a more fragile form that is more easily destroyed under the same external influences. The lower the temperature of an object, the more destructive external influences of other objects with other temperatures and other temperature influences can be for it.
                        Even in conditions of deepest poverty and tyranny there is always a catalyst, a trigger. The system simply loses its elasticity.
                      2. +1
                        23 January 2024 12: 13
                        In general, it was not for nothing that I pointed out above that the analogy exists for modeling the behavior of masses and not “quantum objects.” As I noted above, it is impossible to explain with this help why some Breivik killed a bunch of people.
                      3. 0
                        23 January 2024 13: 52
                        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                        As I noted above, it is impossible to explain with this help why some Breivik killed a bunch of people.

                        drinks good fellow
                        Stop steaming your brains with ideology and analogy. There are people fighting in the trenches who will soon tell us exactly what kind of ideology we need. As the conflict grows, your Western preferences, movie music, etc. will disappear by themselves, and you will want to listen to other music, your own Russian...
                        Kirkorov is the first sign
                      4. +1
                        23 January 2024 14: 30
                        I would be glad to share your optimism, but ALL_THIS_ALREADY HAS BEEN. In 1812 they waited for the abolition of serfdom, in 1941 for the abolition of collective farms, in 1917 for land and freedom - none of this was received.
                        So I want to tell you - and this time you shouldn’t expect people to come from the front and blow a fresh wind of change.
                        There are some illusions that some event can chick-hop! and change everything for the better. Yes, it can be changed. But it’s not a fact that it’s for the better. It's like a genetic mutation from interaction with a mutagen - it's not a fact that it will be good, the fact is that it can happen with a high probability.
                      5. 0
                        24 January 2024 08: 11
                        In 1812 they waited for the abolition of serfdom, in 1941 for the abolition of collective farms, in 1917 for land and freedom - none of this was received.

                        the most tragic periods for the country are listed, and who in their right mind would change the government structure during or on the eve of the war?
                  2. 0
                    15 January 2024 11: 41
                    For all the powerful contributions of Hippocrates to medicine, his authority restrained its development and systematization after the expansion of the material base from a certain point. Challenging complex authority is always a problem, because many people do not understand what “fragmentation” means and do not understand that even a brilliant person can make mistakes and not know or take something into account. It seems to them that genius is infallible and his knowledge is absolute. Such an attitude from a moral point of view is probably a “+”, but from a practical point of view it is a fiasco, because any attack on authority from the practical plane of expanding and complementing the picture goes into the plane of sacrilege.
                5. 0
                  15 January 2024 08: 18
                  Quote: Knell Wardenheart
                  perhaps Hippocrates’ views on medicine are no longer the same

                  Hippocrates had an excellent scientific work - recommendations for the reduction of a dislocated hip joint. From a modern point of view - impeccable! for that time! Views do not change if they are scientific. Read Aristotle - about the nature of things... an exclusively scientific approach! Your crystal lattice analogy method must be complemented by synthesis and analysis. If a person is an atom, then what is temperature?
          2. +2
            12 January 2024 12: 41
            P/s from this follows the general conclusion of the “old left” that by depersonifying the maximum of benefits, you can lick the foam and drink the milk - and the crystalline structure of society is preserved, and access to benefits is adequate. level. Analogies of such “bugs” are used in technology and are useful - when they create a “demon” and keep it in conditions that prevent it from falling apart in a form in which it should not exist, but is useful (the same Qubits in quantum computers) - but here one must understand that such systems are incredibly fragile and are constantly under pressure from outside and inside. The essence, so to speak, is rushing out.
            I apologize for the philosophy, oh. a lot is imbued with it :-) The crystal strives to disintegrate, this is its internal need, restrained only by a certain “strength from lack”.
            I postulate the thesis that the evolution of man inevitably leads to the fact that he becomes less “social” and more “individual”, although, of course, the collective whole is, of course, interested in the most organized structure - based on collective benefits.
            A sort of struggle between “We” and “I”. But if we assume that such a struggle is going on, it is not surprising that people choose systems with greater variability for the “I” if they have everything in the bag personally.
            1. +1
              12 January 2024 13: 18
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              P/sI postulate the thesis that human evolution inevitably leads to the fact that he becomes less “social” and more “individual”

              this is endlessly controversial... although it is indisputable that the history of Humanity is finite if it does not go into Big Space.
            2. +1
              12 January 2024 13: 18
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              P/sI postulate the thesis that human evolution inevitably leads to the fact that he becomes less “social” and more “individual”

              this is endlessly controversial... although it is indisputable that the history of Humanity is finite if it does not go into Big Space.
            3. +2
              12 January 2024 14: 55
              You know, I'm very... I love analogies with physics or chemistry - analogies of processes. Here, in the crystal structure, each cricket knows its nest

              I thoroughly enjoyed reading the dialogue. hi
              And a small note.
              Schrödinger imagined the basis of life as a crystal of not a constant, but a variable structure. Guided by his vision, two young biologists discovered DNA. Many years later, a Chinese researcher changed the DNA of a newborn, for which he was expelled from his job and subjected to worldwide ostracism - DNA is sacred and inviolable! And last year, two researchers won a Nobel Prize for creating an extremely cheap and accessible way for everyone to change DNA through the purchase of a simple set of materials and tools in a store (I believe they will still keep it secret). But the point is not in the ability of DNA to change under the influence of external influences, but in the fact that you, like Schrödinger, imperceptibly, perhaps unwittingly, noticed the possibility of transforming the magic crystal of life (melt, then gas) with a change not in the physical, but in the social temperature.
              Schrödinger did not notice this possibility.
              1. +1
                12 January 2024 15: 03
                Thank you, Lyudmila! At one time, I was surprised to discover the applicability of chemical theory to interhuman relationships, from then on it went and, often, elemental models with the natural sciences seemed extremely curious to me. The chemical model of perception can very well explain how people come together and diverge, why their connections are stable, why some people cannot form stable connections, why they are formed in extreme environments, etc.
                All these hydrogen, donor, acceptor types of bonds between elements and the structure of their nuclear shells with free electrons - all this is a great analogy, through the prism of which you can very well. It’s cool to look at life, friendship, love and even the team.

                So there is something in this, chiorD am And such a view of things is not dry materialism at all - the laws of the universe are completely romantic and one might even say magic.

                Sorry for the collective farm mysticism here drinks
                1. +1
                  12 January 2024 17: 00
                  Sorry for the collective farm mysticism here

                  Yes, no mysticism, especially collective farm mysticism)))
                  Everything is to the point. When the social temperature is normal, all these properties of chemical bonds manifest themselves in the form of differences in intelligence. There are only 7 of them according to Gardner. According to another classification - 13. And an increase in social temperature leads to the distribution of intelligence in only a few parameters, more precisely in two - resistant to stress or not resistant. It's like a melt. Further increase in social temperature - evaporation through running in different directions, who goes where drinks )))
            4. +2
              12 January 2024 15: 46
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              The crystal strives to disintegrate, this is its internal need, restrained only by a certain “strength from lack.”

              But what about gravity, when huge objects attract small ones, thereby becoming even larger?
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              I postulate the thesis that human evolution inevitably leads to the fact that he becomes less “social” and more “individual”

              Are we deceiving ourselves? You wrote a lot today and spent a lot of time on the site. Isn't this communication? It is not the same as at the end of the 19th century, but it is also communication, that is, the need for it has not gone away. Communication and society are very close words, aren’t they? The fact that you no longer need to communicate with hundreds of people in person does not change the fact that we have a need to communicate with them in other ways, through the Internet now.
              1. +1
                12 January 2024 16: 32
                But what about gravity, when huge objects attract small ones, thereby becoming even larger?

                The weakest of interactions, insignificant even on the scale of macro-objects. I suspect that the human population will never be large enough and crowded enough for it to make sense to make corrections for the analogue of “gravity”. But if you like, an analogue of “gravity” can be the desire of some people to own and control others “in one form or another.” At the “macro level” this is one way or another, yes, it manifests itself. On “quantum” specifically, this may not be interesting to you at all. From an abstract point of view, it is not very interesting to be in a system where someone is trying to take control of you.

                Are we deceiving ourselves? You wrote a lot today and spent a lot of time on the site. Isn't this communication?

                When we sharpen a pencil, sawdust flies in all directions, but what is important here - that the sawdust is flying or that we are sharpening the pencil?
                With exactly the same interest, I could communicate with some people from China or Uruguay, if I had something to talk to them about (and someone does, by the way), there are sub-currents and sub-cultures, in which people from different countries come together and understand each other much better than the people behind the wall.
                Regarding communication, I would also note one more point - the useful component of communication has now changed significantly because people find answers to their Questions on the Internet - where they were once asked and answered, that is, without direct interaction and dialogue. In fact, a significant part of the Useful component has already been removed from interpersonal communication in our time - you no longer ask “how to get there?” - you have a navigator and a map. The aesthetic side of communication has also been partially replaced by interaction with “dead content” - bloggers, podcasts, series, shows. You don't directly interact with it in any two-way way, but it creates emotions and mood for you.
                I cannot say unequivocally that communication has “died,” but its critical compression is impossible not to notice. By analogy with this, the role of the Society also declines, since you yourself have noticed a certain identity of these things.
        2. +3
          12 January 2024 12: 45
          “What if, upon reaching a certain level of personal well-being, the demand for this very “ideological component” drops sharply? “

          Exactly so, and in several senses.

          On the one hand, a rich individual often forms an ideology for himself, simply because he has such an opportunity, as you just described.

          But there is another side to the issue - a rich and independent individual falls out of the ideology imposed by someone, for example, the state, since he simply does not need it. Dependent people, whether they want it or not, must unite around something, this makes it easier to fight for their rights. When there is no need for unification, people do not need a unifying idea, that is, ideology.

          Ideology turns from a need into a desire for some.
      2. +2
        12 January 2024 12: 40
        Why not at all? Having achieved its goal in relations with Arab dynasties, the United States does not impose its democratic values ​​on them.
  5. +2
    12 January 2024 08: 05
    “The fight for the Taiwanese heart will ultimately be won not by ships and armies, but by the one who offers the most generous marriage contract and will be willing to wait longer than his opponent for a positive answer. Although the United States knows how to play the long game, something tells us that Beijing has something here there will be more endurance."

    I agree with this, it will be so if everything goes the way it is going now.

    IMHO, sooner or later Taiwan will become Chinese, but not free for China.

    Of course, there is a possibility that the internal politics of the United States or China will change radically, then everything will go unknown, but the likelihood of this is no higher than the likelihood of the arrival of Martians, IMHO.
  6. +1
    12 January 2024 08: 49
    From the point of view of views on geopolitics, everything is quite clear among political forces. “Kuomintang” is the choice for close relations with China with the prospect of “One country - two systems”


    From the point of view of the Kuomintang Party, “One country - two systems” means the entry of the PRC into the Republic of China (Taiwan) with the rights of broad autonomy.
    There is no talk of Taiwan joining China according to the Hong Kong scenario - Taiwan is the world leader in microelectronics and has a per capita GDP more than 3 times that of China.
  7. 0
    12 January 2024 11: 17
    The fight for the Taiwanese heart will ultimately be won not by ships and armies, but by the one who offers the most generous marriage contract

    Attempts to provoke the PRC into a military invasion by activating the corresponding political forces in Taiwan are more like making a decision like “don’t let anyone get you!” This is consistent with the Americans' plans to return production to their territory. In general, taking into account some of the efforts of the Americans to create microelectronics production in Vietnam, one gets the impression that they have already come to terms with the absorption of Taiwan by the PRC, and all their efforts are aimed only at ensuring that the Chinese gain as little as possible from this, and they themselves would have time to seize the initiative in the production of microelectronics, if not at home, then in the territory completely controlled by them.
  8. +1
    12 January 2024 11: 56
    Thank you for the article ! Curious nuances of domestic policy, somewhat vaguely reminiscent of our 1996 situation, with a smarter, more ambitious “Swan” based on a stronger architecture.
    Every time I read about a political struggle of such intensity and alignments, I always sigh with longing for what our public policy is like..
    I am not very versed in economic intricacies, but I have a suspicion that the intensified movements to develop the “mycelium” outside, which the PRC has been taking at least since the beginning of Xi Jinping, are precisely aimed at increasing diversification in economic relations with the United States.

    If in our case (Russian Federation), despite long preludes, the break with the West was quite sharp and spontaneous, we had to carry out a lot of movements after the fact and install “patches” and “make-shifts” from the lack of thoughtfulness or one-sidedness of our “Eastern” replacement architecture The West - in the case of the PRC, they form the mycelium ahead of time and more painstakingly (this is how it looks from the outside), and this mycelium itself is built in such a way as to pump as balanced as possible, without any special distortions, from as large an area as possible.
    And although in some places this mycelium will turn into large arteries of the “New Silk Road”, everything is created ahead of time so that these arteries cannot be pinched at once - and so that the fight against the mycelium will require absolutely extraordinary efforts from the enemy.

    Quite typically for itself, China is in no hurry; time is quite on its side. Bye ..
    1. +1
      12 January 2024 13: 51
      If you sit on the river bank for a long time, you can see the corpse of your enemy float by.
  9. +1
    12 January 2024 12: 21
    Electoral democracy under capitalism comes down to the right of slaves to choose a collar around their neck.
    What matters is not how they vote, but how they think
    Money decides everything. This was clearly demonstrated by the US elections, EU trades with Hungary and many, many other examples.
    The issue in the elections is not about Taiwan, but about the future relations between the world's two largest state entities, closely integrated economically but with different social systems, government structures and management systems.
    It is important that before the end of XiJinping’s third and final term as Chairman, the issue of China’s unification will be resolved in any way, and the US people understand this. The US will decide to go to war - XiJinping said that the PRC does not want war, but is not afraid of war either.
    The US transfer of nuclear submarines to Australia, the actual abolition of the Japanese self-defense forces, the provocations of South Korea, the expansion of NATO's area of ​​responsibility to almost the entire world, the creation of Quad and Aukus, the activation of US bases in the Asia-Pacific region, the transfer of control of the war in Ukraine to London and financing and NATO supplies - everything foreshadows a forceful solution to the issue, and the blows in Taiwan will be a point of no return in the behind-the-scenes bargaining between the United States and the PRC, just like Britain's bargaining with the PRC over the status of Hong Kong.
    The Democratic Party will definitely win, but alone or in a coalition it doesn’t matter.
  10. +2
    12 January 2024 17: 19
    None of the leading political forces in Taiwan agrees to its “Anschluss” by the PRC. In addition, the bulk of Taiwanese society does not want to become part of Chinese society and live by its systemic rules. They are more satisfied with their standard of living and their routine...
  11. +3
    12 January 2024 20: 19
    Quote: Civil
    2. The PRC understands perfectly well that Taiwan itself will come without unnecessary violence and destruction of its economy, which is already part of the PRC.

    Just no sudden movements! Taiwan for us is Finland. A former province where the “whites” won. And the USSR was their main trading partner. But our foreign policy scared the Finns away and they went to NATO. hi hi