In Russia, the creation of a bench base for testing the new generation PAK DA bomber has been completed

In Russia, scientific work has been completed to create a test bench intended for testing the new generation domestic bomber PAK DA (Advanced aviation long-range aviation complex). It is planned to test all parts and components of the new aircraft at this base.

As the RIA News with reference to Rostec, specialists from one of the enterprises of the state corporation have successfully completed a full cycle of research and development work to create a testing base and a set of stands.

The new bomber is being developed by the Tupolev aviation company. It is assumed that the new vehicle can be put into service before 2027 and replace the Tu-95MS missile carriers currently in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces and, simultaneously with the Tu-160, enter the formation of the Russian nuclear triad.

It is reported that the bomber will be subsonic and is being developed with extensive use of radar signature reduction technologies, and will also be made according to the “flying wing” design.

The PAK DA's payload is expected to be 30 tons, which is comparable to modern bombers such as the American B-2 Spirit and the Chinese H-20. In addition, the new bomber is expected to be equipped with a wide variety of weapons systems, including conventional and nuclear munitions, which will make it extremely effective at hitting different types of targets.

Comments

[Aerodrome]

In Russia, the creation of a bench base for testing the new generation PAK DA bomber has been completed

say. and say nothing. What is the point of the topic? this was three years ago. right now on MiG 41 something else.

[Orange Bigg]

For the Mig-41, you have to wait for the 6th generation engine. So the Mig-41 is not coming soon.

[Shurik70]

2009 - start of work with PAK DA
2023 - built a stand for testing PAK DA parts
2037 - electricity was connected to the stand
2045 - the first part (wheel) arrived at the test bench

[Shurik70]

There are so many downsides, however.
But aren’t there too many years between the beginning of theoretical and practical work?

[Totvolk80]

PAK YES is a useless, unnecessary monster for cutting money. It will be able to take off from 2, maximum 3 airfields, where there will be infrastructure for its preparation... They will all be destroyed within 5 minutes of attack... Well, why is all this circus needed?

https://naukatehnika.com/pak-da-obrel-svoe-liczo.html

[Vyacheslav Boyko]

It’s been like this for about XNUMX years, it’s easy to eat, but it’s hard to get angry, just presentations, got it, create it first, and then pant, why bother taking bad stuff from the West

[bayard]

Quote from Orange Bigg

For the Mig-41, you have to wait for the 6th generation engine. So the Mig-41 is not coming soon.

In fact, the R-579V-300 has already shown in bench tests a thrust with afterburner of 23 kg.s. and this with a dead weight of 000 - 2000 kg. - in the size and weight dimensions of the MiG-2200 engine (the thrust of which in afterburner in the modernized version on the MiG-31BV is 31 kg.s.). So consider the engine to be there.
Another thing is that I would prefer to use such engines to make an MPA strike aircraft - a carrier of the GZ anti-ship missile system with a long range and in a stealth design.
And as for the PAK YES, it looks like tests of the engine for it are going well, so they are starting bench tests of the airframe.

[BABAY22]

In Russia, scientific work has been completed to create a test bench intended for testing a domestic bomber

Translated into Russian, this means that the creation of sketches of a bayonet shovel has been completed, with the help of which a pit will be dug for the construction of a bomber production plant.
In short, Hurray! Comrades!

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

In Russia, scientific work has been completed to create a test bench intended for testing the new generation domestic bomber PAK DA

Does this take into account the fact that work on it began in 2009? I remember "The History of the Tiger Tank" by Koshkin

“When representatives of the Panzerwaffe arrived to look at the experimental tank, they were quickly shown something without a turret, loaded with rails.
-Where is the tank? – asked the tankers.
- And here! – the designers answered.
- This?!!
- Well, actually, this is not a tank yet. This is the first conceptual and experimental prototype of an experimental machine.
– Couldn’t it have been possible to make a prototype machine right away?
“Well, well, there’s no need for haste in this matter.” In addition, we tested some interesting ideas on it.

Unfortunately, we are unlikely to have a Panzerwaffe officer who
“...said that he has friends who work in the Gestapo, so if this bullshit continues, then some interesting ideas will also be tested on the designers regarding pain thresholds, strength limits of joints and articulations, as well as anatomy in general.” (With)

[Andrey Yuryevich]

“Sharazhki” need to be revived, and smersh, otherwise, I feel like things won’t move forward.

[bk0010]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

“Sharazhki” need to be revived, and smersh, otherwise, I feel like things won’t move forward.

Will you go there (to the sharashka)? Or is it better to use a courier for 100 rubles a month?

[bayard]

Quote: bk0010

Will you go there (to the sharashka)? Or is it better to use a courier for 100 rubles a month?

In general, Soviet science cities and academic towns were created in the image of those very sharashkas. Without defining pain thresholds, of course, but in them nothing interfered with the scientists (usually young ones) or distracted them from concentrated work on assigned projects. And the people in these science cities and academic towns really liked it. Families were created, all domestic issues were resolved quickly and efficiently, and supplies were organized according to the first category.

[dump22]

all everyday issues were resolved quickly and efficiently, and supplies were organized according to the first category.

Right.
But for this to happen, the supply of everyone else must be worse organized.
To make living in a science city more comfortable and more prestigious.
Otherwise, who will voluntarily sit in a science city if the same and even greater level of comfort can be obtained wherever you want?

[bayard]

In the Soviet Union, many scientists simply received pleasure and self-realization, having the opportunity to fully concentrate on work.
In the USA, the Manhattan Project was organized along the same principles. And many high-tech companies and corporations still organize such “sharashkas” to this day, where scientists are deprived of any problems or worries other than the assigned work.

Quote from: dump22

For this, the supply of everyone else must be worse organized.

States may have different opportunities, but the tasks they face are vital, about the survival of the country. And in such places these problems were solved. That is why they tried to solve all their problems for these people - for the best impact of their scientific work.

Quote from: dump22

who will voluntarily sit in a science city if the same and even greater level of comfort can be obtained wherever you want?

What do you think, where would young (and not only) scientists with a high and the highest possible “IQ” WANT to be, in what environment? Is it really in an idle and insufficiently educated environment? Or is it still among people like themselves?
Believe me, they liked it there.

[dump22]

In the USA, the Manhattan Project was organized according to the same principle.

This was a temporary project. Already in September 1945, scientists began to leave it, returning to their previous scientific work. For example, Oppenheimer went to Princeton.

Many high-tech companies and corporations still organize such “sharashkas” to this day.

Never heard. And how do they work there voluntarily and can leave freely?
Is there a corporate SMERSH too?

[bk0010]

Quote: bayard

In general, Soviet science cities and academic towns were created in the image of those very sharashkas.

Nothing in common: science cities were created on the model of military towns.

[bayard]

Quote: bk0010

Nothing in common: science cities were created on the model of military towns.

Yes, this is understandable. No one is talking about the fact that there was a concentration camp for scientists there - closed towns with full board, social services and organization of scientific work. In the end, our first academic campuses were also created and supervised by Beria. The same Chelyabinsk-40, Novosibirsk Academic Town.
The practice of the first sharashkas showed that precisely this type of organization of scientific and design work is most optimal - when no one distracts a person. And when all his everyday problems are solved initially. Hooligans don’t roam the streets, alcoholics don’t scream songs at night, the neighbor doesn’t chase his wife so hard that the whole house can’t sleep... All these “charms” of ordinary society don’t distract, don’t strain, don’t distract attention, don’t create problems and discomfort. And all your colleagues live nearby, and if a brilliant idea pops into your head, there is someone to immediately discuss it with, even after hours.

[Repellent]

Quote: bayard

In fact, Soviet science cities and academic towns were created in the image of those same sharashkas

Hm. And what does our meter (yes, you, my friend) have in common between the academic town and the sharashka? Be careful, I was born and raised in such a town, and I know more than one such town quite well.

[bayard]

Quote: Repellent

Be careful, I was born and raised in this town

I wasn't so lucky.

Quote: Repellent

And what does our meter (you, my friend) believe in common between the academic campus and the sharashka?

Their author and creator. I wrote the rest above.
I myself did not live in such towns, but I had many acquaintances and friends who came from them. By the way, one familiar nuclear physicist from the Novosibirsk academic campus told me about the continuity of academic towns from sharashkas. He then oversaw the construction and operation of the Ignalina Nuclear Power Plant...

[Repellent]

Quote: bayard

I wrote the rest above

Um.

Quote: bayard

The practice of the first sharashkas showed that it is precisely this organization of scientific and design work that is most optimal - when no one distracts the person

And now - the correct answer (c):

- sharashka was a special prison after all
- accordingly, the regime is a walk under escort, visits every six months
- How is this similar to academic campuses? Nothing.

Well, I found it by accident on the net. It became really interesting:

About sharashkas

https://topos.memo.ru/category/69

[bayard]

I don’t need to talk about this canary, it’s a fable within a fable. My friend’s father is a serious scientist in the field of oil and gas resources... was drafted into the Navy in 1943 (served until 1948) exactly in the Acoustic Laboratory. It’s true that other systems were developed there - acoustic buoys and other acoustics for the Navy. Also a sharashka. But this game described by the bastard Solzhenitsyn was not there, and I asked him in the early 90s. All this Dantean dregs in my head is from a rotten nature. I couldn’t read his scribbled papers - the style is heavy, uninteresting, the thoughts are sick... Although I bought several books at one time out of stupidity.

Quote: Repellent

- sharashka was a special prison after all

Because Beria gathered convicted scientists and designers there while their cases were reviewed to determine whether guilt corresponded to punishment. Many were acquitted. But since there were a lot of such cases to be reviewed with the arrival of Beria, he created conditions for them to work and offered chord assignments. Aircraft constructs (most is known about this). You make an airplane according to the issued technical specifications - amnesty, reward, bonus! And everyone managed it. And the organization of the process itself turned out to be so effective that they decided to work it not with convicts, but with ordinary scientists, gathering them in separate towns or closed-type settlements, with families, creating all the conditions. For maximum impact. And this later resulted in what was called - academic campuses.
The Americans in Los Alamos also created such a sharashka/academic town to solve the problem with a nuclear bomb. And Beria already looked at this experience during the construction of Chelyabinsk-40. Our missiles were equipped with nuclear warheads there. And my mother almost got there by assignment, but she got sick... and the staff was formed without her.

[Repellent]

Dude, it's a lot of books.

Quote: Repellent

Sharashka was a special prison. Accordingly, the regime is a walk under escort, visits every six months

Are there any clear objections? You don’t need a lot of words, you need a little, but to the point.

Quote: Repellent

How is this similar to academic campuses? Nothing

Similar to the previous one.

Your furry inner world doesn’t interest me in the slightest; I’m interested in answers to specific questions. Thanks for understanding.

[dump22]

You make an airplane according to the issued technical specifications - amnesty, reward, bonus!

If you don’t do it, here’s a new article for sabotage.
The carrot and stick method.

And everyone managed it

A typical survivor mistake.

[Whip]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Does this take into account the fact that work on it began in 2009?

The schedule and priority of work is determined by the customer.
And the customer KMK may change the concept of using long-range bomber aircraft,
The Kh-BD cruise missile has a range of 6,5 thousand km; if launched over Chukotka, it will reach targets over most of the territory of a potential partner,
For a European theater of operations, a range of 6,5 thousand is even a lot,
The Tu-160 and probably even the Tu-22 are suitable for launching such X-BDs.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

some interesting ideas regarding pain thresholds will be tested

I would primarily use such methods for Vasya Pupkin - an Internet scribbler,
who are engaged in targeted sabotage.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Whip

And the customer KMK may change the concept of using long-range bomber aircraft

And she changed? :)))

Quote: Whip

The Kh-BD cruise missile has a range of 6,5 thousand km; if launched over Chukotka, it will reach targets over most of the territory of a potential partner,
For a European theater of operations, a range of 6,5 thousand is even a lot,
The Tu-160 and probably even the Tu-22 are suitable for launching such X-BDs.

It is you, Comrade Knut, who once again demonstrate your deep ignorance of the issue, with an insatiable desire to write something.
Air Force Commander Viktor Bondarev reported that the PAK DA will be subsonic and will be able to combine the properties of “strategic aircraft” of previous generations.

“It will have modern domestic aircraft engines. The architecture of the on-board radio-electronic complex and weapon control system is carried out with deep integration of intelligent systems and has no analogues in the world. The use of promising aviation weapons with a long range by this complex will provide the PAK DA with the ability to avoid entering the zone defeating enemy air defenses, which allows designers to abandon the flight mode at supersonic speed"

This was said, by the way, in 2014 https://ria.ru/20141223/1039717438.html
It’s only in your head that such somersaults are possible, as if they were developing and developing the aircraft for 10 years, and then suddenly: “Oh! Why are we doing this? We have a long-range missile!!!” - and all the developments are thrown into the trash. PAK YES ORIGINALLY was made for ultra-long-range ammunition, which is why they abandoned supersonic ammunition. And the X-BD is precisely intended, incl. for PAK YES

Quote: Whip

I would primarily use such methods for Vasya Pupkin - an Internet scribbler,
who are engaged in targeted sabotage.

How long has it been since you last looked in the mirror? :)))

[Whip]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Once again you demonstrate your deep ignorance of the issue, with an insatiable desire to write something

Empty words, nothing confirmed.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

that PAK DA will be subsonic

The key here is not subsonic or supersonic, but the fact that the Tu-160 is available and in production, but the PAK DA is not yet available.
PAK YES it’s a good thing, but the priority is not the highest,
It seems to me that in the medium term the Tu-160 plus X-BD will be enough,
This is probably why the development of PAK DA was delayed.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

then suddenly: “OH! Why are we here? We have a long-range missile!!!” - and all the developments are thrown into the trash.

In 2014, there was no X-BD yet.
Development of PAK DA continues,
But apparently the priority is not the highest.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

How long has it been since you last looked in the mirror? :)))

I said about Vasya Pupkin about the collective image of Internet babble, that there are scribblers who take on acorns to spoil any news,
I said in continuation of your thought about pain thresholds.
-Have you already tried on the image of Vasya Pupkin?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Whip

Empty words, nothing confirmed.

No, my dear, it’s confirmed.
You deigned to blurt out that the customer’s concept might have changed due to the appearance of X-BD
I brought you the words of the Air Force Commander-in-Chief that it was the creation of long-range missiles that predetermined the appearance of the PAK DA, that is, the PAK DA was precisely created within the framework of the concept of long-range missile weapons.
The words of the commander-in-chief completely refute the nonsense that you are talking about. However, since you have decided to declare the Air Force Commander-in-Chief an idle talker, be consistent and tell us from which MORE authoritative source you learned about the change in the PAK DA concept
Barzo is simpler

Quote: Whip

In 2014, there was no X-BD yet.

Knut, it was difficult to expect such nonsense even from you. Rockets don't grow in garden beds. For X-BD to appear now, work on it had to begin very early in advance. And when the PAK DA concept was being developed, it was naturally developed for advanced missile weapons, just as it was with the PAK FA.

Quote: Whip

-Have you already tried on the image of Vasya Pupkin?

Where did you see this?:) I tried it on you. By the way, it fit very well

[Whip]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

From which MORE authoritative source did you learn about the change in the concept of PAK YES

It can be assumed, that for the medium term the concept of using long-range bomber aircraft has changed (this has to be repeated),
Probably for the next 5-10 years, the emphasis will most likely be on the use of the Tu-160 plus X-BD,
We see that the production of the Tu-160 has been resumed, the development of the PAK DA is most likely shifted (but not stopped).
In the future, of course, there will be PAK DA with all its advantages.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Whip

It can be assumed

I'm not interested in your assumptions.

Quote: Whip

Probably for the next 5-10 years, the emphasis will most likely be on the use of the Tu-160 plus X-BD,

This is known even without you, because it is a fact. The fact is also that work on PAK DA has shifted greatly to the right of what was planned. And one more fact - that X-BD has nothing to do with the PAK DA shift to the right.

[Whip]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

This is known even without you, because it is a fact

With the increase in the number and development of radar satellites, stealth will no longer be able to provide secrecy (radar satellites in low orbit can easily detect a flying object tens of meters in size) - a fact.
Those. It is a fact that it will not be possible to break through air defense due to the surprise of a missile strike.
To break through air defense, a massive raid or hypersound remains - a fact.
A stealth bomber (missile carrier) has limited ammunition and is not quite suitable for a massive strike - a fact.
The Tu-160 is more suitable for hypersonic missiles - fact.
Those. The effectiveness of the subsonic stealth PAK DA now and especially in the future has some limitations - a fact.
The X-BD has appeared in service, which expands the capabilities of the Tu-160 currently in service and the needs of long-range aviation overlap at least in the short term - a fact.
We consider the totality of facts and draw conclusions.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Whip

With the increase in the number and development of radar satellites, stealth will no longer be able to provide secrecy (radar satellites in low orbit can easily detect a flying object tens of meters in size) - a fact.

This is not a fact, but nonsense

Quote: Whip

Those. It is a fact that it will not be possible to break through air defense due to the surprise of a missile strike.

The PAK DA was not created as an air defense breaker. Fact :)) Although with certain tactics he can break through this air defense https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4286461.html

Quote: Whip

A stealth bomber (missile carrier) has limited ammunition and is not quite suitable for a massive strike - a fact.

Not a fact, but nonsense. Ammunition has nothing to do with stealth at all, except for the refusal to place it on an external sling

Quote: Whip

The Tu-160 is more suitable for hypersonic missiles - fact.

And again - nonsense, arising from the delusion of the previous paragraph

Quote: Whip

Those. The effectiveness of the subsonic stealth PAK DA now and especially in the future has some limitations - a fact.

And again - nonsense

Quote: Whip

We consider the totality of facts and draw conclusions.

Once again, keep your illiterate speculation to yourself.
PAK DA is built on the following principles:
1. One of the key and extremely important characteristics for a strategic missile carrier is its time in the air. And since afterburning engines can be designed to be much more economical, the PAK DA will far outperform the Tu-160 in this indicator
2. Stealth in combination with long-range missiles completely exclude the possibility of intercepting the PAK DA when entering the attack line and patrolling it with any not only existing, but also future weapons systems of the Western Air Force. The Tu-160 does not have this advantage.

[Whip]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Quote: Whip
With the increase in the number and development of radar satellites, stealth will no longer be able to provide secrecy (radar satellites in low orbit can easily detect a flying object tens of meters in size) - a fact.

This is not a fact, but nonsense

Already commercial radar satellites in the near future they will be able determine the speed of a carth.
There is no need to discuss your latest balabolism any further.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Whip

Commercial radar satellites will soon be able to determine the speed of passenger cars.

Which will not help in any way to track and issue control commands to a strategic missile carrier.
There is no need to discuss your latest balabolism further

[Whip]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Which will not help in any way to track and issue control commands to a strategic missile carrier.

You are confusing the pedals.

Quote: Whip

Commercial radar satellites will soon be able to determine the speed of passenger cars.

What I mean is that a radar satellite that can determine the speed of a passenger car can easily detect a stealth bomber,
The satellite detects a stealth missile carrier, and an AWACS aircraft is on duty in the threatened direction; when a cruise missile launch is detected, fighter jets take off.
As always, you bombard your opponent with garbage from your head.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Whip

You are confusing the pedals.

In your world, Dunno is on the Moon - no doubt.

Quote: Whip

What I mean is that a radar satellite that can determine the speed of a passenger car can easily detect a stealth bomber,

I repeat - complete nonsense. You don't understand anything at all about what you write.
We take radarsat-1 - even in a 50-kilometer scanning band it has a resolution of 9 * 9 meters
We take the Japanese asnaro-2 - it has a resolution of one meter. BUT! When scanning a strip 10 km wide! That is, for round-the-clock scanning of, say, a 500 km strip along our border towards the North Pole, 2400 such satellites will be needed!
And this despite the fact that even with meter resolution there is practically no chance of identifying Stealth.

Quote: Whip

The satellite detects a stealth missile carrier, and an AWACS aircraft is on duty in the threatened direction

And from what distance will the AWACS see the stealth aircraft and be able to direct fighters at it? And what fighters will intercept 2-3 thousand kilometers from the nearest NATO airfield?

Quote: Whip

As always, you bombard your opponent with garbage from your head.

You, as usual, demonstrate a complete inability to analyze your own dreams. You are not even able to realize that even if the satellite could detect the PAK DA (and it cannot), its detection of AWACS and interception are still extremely complicated by stealth
You are not able to estimate the X-BD launch area. You cannot calculate how long it will take to fly an AWACS to the area where the PAK DA is located and search for it there. You do not understand that the PAK DA, having stealth and developed RTR, is capable of easily evading a single AWACS in the duty area.
Actually, as I already said, you have nothing at all. In addition to the insatiable desire to write nonsense on the Internet

[Whip]

We can start with the fact that long-range aviation is often already accompanied by enemy reconnaissance aircraft and fighters.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

We take radarsat-1...
Let's take the Japanese asnaro-2

Quote: Whip

With the increase in the number and development of radar satellites, stealth will no longer be able to provide secrecy (radar satellites in low orbit can easily detect a flying object tens of meters in size) - a fact.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

And from what distance will the AWACS see the stealth aircraft and be able to direct fighters at it?

AWACS aircraft (plus the Navy, shipborne radars, plus fighter radars) will cover the direction (object, coast, etc.) where cruise missiles launched from PAK DA are likely to appear.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

You cannot calculate how long it will take to fly an AWACS to the area where the PAK DA is located and search for it there

PAK DA will be tracked from satellite,
AWACS and others will detect missiles launched from PAK DA.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

I repeat - complete nonsense. You don't understand anything at all about what you write.

These mantras of yours are the key to what you write, that’s why you repeat them so often, the rest is garbage and emptiness.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Whip

We can start with the fact that long-range aviation is often already accompanied by enemy reconnaissance aircraft and fighters.

That is, you are not even able to distinguish a YES flight in which they are escorted to perform a combat mission in the event of Armageddon.
I'm not surprised.

Quote: Whip

With the increase in the number and development of radar satellites, stealth will no longer be able to provide secrecy

I repeat for the eleventh time - your dreams do not interest me.
You are even unable to understand how schizophrenic the design is: “The timing of the creation of the PAK FA was deliberately shifted, because voices in my head told me that satellites would eventually nullify stealth.”
If it is true that the satellites will soon reset stealth, the PAK FA should be closed and not moved to the right. Or, on the contrary, speed up the process of putting it into service in order to get it in a time when satellites are not able to do this. But there's no way to move it to the right.

Quote: Whip

PAK DA will be tracked from satellite.

1. Today there is no satellite that could do this
2. Today there is no country that could afford a satellite constellation capable of monitoring a certain area around the clock.
In 50-70 years they may appear. At this point, PAK DA will be completing its life cycle.

[Whip]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

that even if the satellite could detect PAK DA (and it cannot)

The stealth aircraft is hardly noticeable from the front and side projections,
From above (for satellite radar) the stealth aircraft is very noticeable,
In order for a stealth aircraft to be invisible from the overhead projection, this stealth aircraft must be completely radio transparent.
At a minimum, a stealth aircraft for a satellite radar will be visible as a moving heterogeneity the size of the area of ​​the aircraft itself (for PAK DA this is tens of square meters),
Advanced satellite radars will detect a stealth aircraft by comparing two radar images, the current and the previous one (more precisely, the difference will be detected by ground processing centers).

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Whip

The stealth aircraft is hardly noticeable from the front and side projections,
From above (for satellite radar) the stealth aircraft is very noticeable,

Knut, you are talking about things that you don’t understand a damn thing about.
Firstly, existing methods for reducing RCS work from all projections. Simply, from above it will be more noticeable than in other projections, but much less noticeable than an aircraft without stealth technology. Because only in your fantasy world, the plane is exposed to radar radiation only in the frontal/lateral projection. In the real world, the irradiating radar can be either significantly higher than the aircraft or significantly lower, and all this is taken into account during the design.
Secondly, the radar satellite image looks like this
https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2023-12/1702033040_22.webp
In order to understand what is actually shown in the picture is possible only after LONG processing, which may include: application of an orbit file, radiometric calibration, discontinuity removal, "multi-leveling", noise filtering and terrain correction. After a long series of mathematical calculations and processing, the final image will “develop.”
It is possible to measure the speed of the car you are driving around here from a satellite. But you will learn about its speed much later after this car completes its trip.
Thirdly, in order to take a picture of the required resolution to identify the plane, you need to KNOW IN ADVANCE WHERE THE OBJECT IS WITH AN ACCURACY OF UP TO 10-15 km. To provide round-the-clock monitoring, more than TWO THOUSAND satellites will be needed. And there are about hundreds of them all over the world and in all countries.
But even if you provide this control, you will go crazy processing images in such a way as to have time to react to the PAK DA takeoff. This is simply IMPOSSIBLE at today's level of technology.
That is why today radar reconnaissance satellites are used EXCLUSIVELY for monitoring stationary objects.

[Whip]

You and I went through radar satellites, you didn’t learn your lesson,
As always, you will dodge until the last moment until someone pokes you in the face.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Measuring the speed of the car you are running around with

I said about the possibilities as an example commercial radar satellites,
The important point here is that these are satellites of small startup companies with a limited budget.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

This is simply IMPOSSIBLE at today's level of technology.

Today's commercial radar satellites - Capella 36,
https://www.vesvks.ru/vks/article/kosmicheskaya-sistema-radiolokacionnogo-nablyudeni-16696
https://www.capellaspace.com/capella-reveals-first-light-imagery-from-third-generation-acadia-satellite/
where is the frequency of observation any area of ​​the Earth (after full expansion 36 satellites) maximum 1 hour, for central Russia frequency 30-35 minutes, northern regions of Russia with average frequency 20 minutes, resolution in overview mode is 1 meter. Information is transmitted from satellites almost in real time.

As a result, the Pentagon saw how it works (radar from low-orbit satellites), then the Pentagon budget plus all sorts of Lockheeds and Boeings and the same startup companies, the result is a program NDSA (National Defense Space Architecture).
https://www.fastcompany.com/90821502/the-national-defense-space-architecture-inside-space-forces-splashy-new-initiative
NDSA is several hundred satellites in different orbits (but most in low orbits), includes communications, radar and infrared detection satellites, with the help of which all types of targets will be detected and tracked, from hypersonic missiles and stealth aircraft to armored vehicles, further information in real time (also with the help of satellites included in the NDSA) will be delivered directly to weapons - fighters, air defense crews, missile defense systems, etc.
Satellite deployment for NDSA has already begun.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Whip

As always, you will dodge until the last moment until someone pokes you in the face.

Thanks for the link. You, as usual, failed to read and provided a link that COMPLETELY REFUTES YOU.

Quote: Whip

Today's commercial radar satellites - Capella 36,

Alas, but judging by the text, to your dreams Capella is like to China on all fours via Vladivostok.

Quote: Whip

de frequency of observation of any region of the Earth (after the full deployment of 36 satellites) is a maximum of 1 hour

Don't confuse your own fantasies and reality.

Surveying any area of ​​the earth's surface can be completed within an hour.

Spell it out, read it, Knut :)))))
SHOOTING ANY AREA. That is, the Capella does not conduct constant surveillance. She is silent and sees nothing. But BY ORDER she can take a photo of the area of ​​interest.

In Fig. Figure 6 schematically shows the regulations for radar imaging of CS Capella 36: the average time from submitting an application for imaging to issuing radar images to the consumer is 90 minutes.

AN HOUR AND A HALF TO PREPARE. That is, even if you know exactly where PAK DA is now, you won’t be able to photograph this area.
NOW READ AND ENJOY YOUR LINK

It should be noted that until now, the delivery time for radar images in existing CS radar stations is at least 10-15 hours, which does not satisfy military consumers when solving the problems of quickly identifying changes.

That is, first you submit an application, after an hour and a half a picture is taken, and after another 10-15 hours... there is no one to look at this picture, because Armageddon has already happened. and KR PAK DA reached the goal.
That's all, Comrade Knut.
I could spend time talking some sense into the person. It is useless with you, you are unteachable. I could spend time showing what nonsense you are talking to other readers so that you don’t fool them, but no one reads this thread anymore.
Therefore, I have no need to respond to your nonsense further.
If any of the readers would like to clarify what Knut is wrong about, please write and I will answer.

[Whip]

Yes, they have already done so, now you will demand measurement reports from me for proof.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

It should be noted that until now, the delivery time for radar images in existing RLN compressor stations is at least 10-15 hours
...
That is, first you submit an application, after an hour and a half a picture is taken, and after another 10-15 hours...

Let me remind you that Capella 36 is a commercial system, with an appropriate level, so we did what we had enough money for.
Currently, 11 spacecraft out of 36 have been withdrawn.
There is a real-time service level, we read:
"Table 4. Service levels for filming requests"

[Whip]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

I could spend time talking some sense into the person. It is useless with you, you are unteachable. I could spend time showing what nonsense you are talking to other readers so that you don’t fool them, but no one reads this thread anymore.
Therefore, I have no need to respond to your nonsense further.

Your usual manner of throwing out information-garbage, among which there is no meaning, and you will claim that it is there.

[Whip]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Therefore, I have no need to respond to your nonsense further.

You have nothing to answer.

Just in case, I’ll repeat it a third time:

Quote: Whip

With increasing quantity and with the development of radar satellites, stealth will no longer be able to provide secrecy (radar satellites in low orbit can easily detect a flying object tens of meters in size) - a fact.

I have already told you that the Pentagon is currently collecting intelligence data from all sources (its reconnaissance satellites and aircraft, commercial satellites) and comparing them in real time,
It can also synchronize the trajectories of its satellites (for military purposes) with commercial satellites to improve coverage.
And that's all for today.
I have already spoken about the NDSA program.

[Whip]

Quote: Whip

And that's all for today.
I have already spoken about the NDSA program.

Perspective (NDSA program) is the global detection and real-time tracking of hypersonic targets.

[Whip]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

existing methods for reducing ESR work from all projections

The EPR of stealth aircraft strongly depends on the irradiation angle and radar frequency,
From this picture you can understand that already from the side the EPR projection increases greatly (source article - Low Observable Principles, Stealth Aircraft and Anti-Stealth Technologies, authors - Greek Air Force officers: K. Zikidis, A. Skondras, C. Tokas.
https://world-defense.com/threads/low-observable-principles-stealth-aircraft-and-anti-stealth-technologies.7360/
https://vk.com/wall-211958646_3291):

[Whip]

Quote: Whip

From this picture you can understand that already from the sides the projection of the EPR increases greatly

In our case, the dimensions of the target (PAK YES) are the top view of the “flying stadium”.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Whip

The EPR of stealth aircraft strongly depends on the irradiation angle and radar frequency,

Learning to read

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Firstly, existing methods for reducing RCS work from all projections. Simply, from above it will be more noticeable than in other projections, but much less noticeable than an aircraft without stealth technologies.

It would seem that even Knut should understand it, but come on...

[km-21]

A strategic bomber is, first of all, an efficient engine capable of providing a long range with a moderate fuel supply. The engine from the Tu-160 is clearly not suitable, since it is designed for supersonic power. And what in return is not yet clear.

[Orange Bigg]

The Russian Product has been created since 2014 on the basis of the NK-56, which has a thrust of 18 tons. It is boosted to 24 tons.

[Aag]

Quote from Orange Bigg

The Russian Product has been created since 2014 on the basis of the NK-56, which has a thrust of 18 tons. It is boosted to 24 tons.

What about specific fuel consumption?

[Orange Bigg]

Quote: AAG

Quote from Orange Bigg

The Russian Product has been created since 2014 on the basis of the NK-56, which has a thrust of 18 tons. It is boosted to 24 tons.

What about specific fuel consumption?

Immediately ask for drawings of the RF Product. I think that the specific fuel consumption will be within the reasonable range. NK-56 was at one time created for the Il-96 and its specific fuel consumption was 0,74 kg/(kgf·h).

[Lozovik]

Quote from Orange Bigg

Immediately ask for drawings of the RF Product. I think that the specific fuel consumption will be within the reasonable range. NK-56 was at one time created for the Il-96 and its specific fuel consumption was 0,74 kg/(kgf·h).

“Product R” (NK-32) has a minimum specific consumption of 0,73 kg/(kgf·h), why should it be higher for an engine with a much higher bypass ratio?

[Orange Bigg]

Maybe Wikipedia is lying. Here is some more data on NK-56.

ON THE QUESTION OF CREATION OF DOUBLE-CIRCUIT ENGINES OF DIFFERENT THROTTLE
BASED ON A COMPLETED GAS GENERATOR
© 2012 E. P. Kocherov, V. S. Kuzmichev, V. V. Kulagin, D. G. Fedorchenko
...
Based on the gas generator of the NK-25 engine, the NK-56 turbofan engine was developed for heavy transport aircraft with a take-off thrust of 176,4 kN and a specific fuel consumption of 0,58 kg/(kN h) under flight conditions Np=11 km, MP=0,8 . The problem was solved by increasing the bypass ratio more than three times (up to 4,9).

[Lozovik]

The NK-56 is a deeply outdated engine, which at one time was naturally abandoned in favor of the PS-90A; the engine for the PAK DA has little in common with it. In front of the flight it is generally a copy of the PD-14

[bayard]

Quote from Orange Bigg

Based on the gas generator of the NK-25 engine, the NK-56 turbofan engine was developed

Actually, for the PAK DA the engine is created on the basis of the NK-32M gas generator (which is for the Tu-160) - NK-23T with a thrust of 24 kg.s. high bypass ratio. They've been racing on the stand for over a year now. There was also a report about the start of assembling the first prototypes for bench testing two years ago. The same engine was proposed for remotorization of the An-000, instead of the exhausted D-124.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: km-21

The engine from the Tu-160 is clearly not suitable, since it is designed for supersonic power.

The engine of the passenger Tu-144 RD-36-51A was tuned for supersonic speed - a gas turbine engine designed for long-term supersonic flight (cruising speed 2120 km/h) without the use of an afterburner. The Tu-160 has an engine based on its cruising speed of 850 km/h, at which the maximum flight range is achieved. The Tu-160 is supersonic only in afterburner.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: km-21

. And what in return is not yet clear.

The first bench tests of the engine created for the Perspective Aviation Complex of Long-Range Aviation (PAK DA) showed almost complete compliance with the required characteristics, General Director of the United Engine Corporation (UEC, part of Rostec) Vladislav Masalov told RIA Novosti at the Paris Air Show-2015.

“Currently, all the necessary parameters are being tested on this sample that meet the specified flight characteristics of the new bomber. During the first tests, the product showed characteristics close to the required ones,” Masalov said, noting that the first bench tests of the prototype of the new engine were Samara OJSC "Kuznetsov" was held at the end of 2014.

[fa2998]

This “badass”, in my opinion, will last for 20 years. Somewhere until the 40s. If we started in 2009, then by our standards, a plane in 40 years is not much.

[alexoff]

So you need to look at how much money has been allocated for this project over 15 years, otherwise, traditionally, a million dollars a year and make a wunderwaffe, but the end result is only a mansion for the general manager

[bayard]

Quote: fa2998

This “bad thing”, in my opinion, will last for 20 years.

We have carried out (and are continuing) the modernization of the Tu-95MS, which will definitely fly off for another 15 years. During this time, the issue with the new aircraft will be resolved.
Times and priorities have changed, a lot of money and demand for orders flowed into the defense industry; you can see the result using the example of the production of armored vehicles (with it you get results faster). Offshore capital is returning to the country (and no longer fleeing) and will now work for the Country. And foreign investment in the country came from unexpected places - so KSA is investing at least a trillion rubles in the Russian Federation.
And the towers, as unusual as it may be for them, have gotten a taste for the feeling of power and are now intensively building the Army, Aviation and Navy.

[fa2998]

In the last “pre-war” year, 2021, the outflow was approximately $74 billion. Last year, approximately $250 billion. Wow, patriotism. We’ll see about this, it’s not over yet, and there’s less revenue, sanctions. The rich don’t even cry!

[FighterD]

Quote: fa2998

This “badass”, in my opinion, will last for 20 years. Somewhere until the 40s. If we started in 2009, then by our standards, a plane in 40 years is not much.

By sofa standards, 70 years is nothing

[notingem]

WE HAVE SOFAS AND WORK EFFICIENTLY. And you guys from the patriarchs have no engines or planes, you’ve just been sucking the budget for decades

[Aag]

Quote: FighterD

Quote: fa2998

This “badass”, in my opinion, will last for 20 years. Somewhere until the 40s. If we started in 2009, then by our standards, a plane in 40 years is not much.

By sofa standards, 70 years is nothing

[Aag]

Quote: FighterD

Quote: fa2998

This “badass”, in my opinion, will last for 20 years. Somewhere until the 40s. If we started in 2009, then by our standards, a plane in 40 years is not much.

By sofa standards, 70 years is nothing

Not funny at all...
They won't give us(?) that much time...

[notingem]

Not funny at all...
They won't give us(?) that much time...
Who is it for us?
To the sawmills or the Russian People

[Aag]

Quote: notingem

Not funny at all...
They won't give us(?) that much time...
Who is it for us?
To the sawmills or the Russian People

Neither one nor the other.

[Thrifty]

You would write that the photo is illustrative, otherwise some particularly zealous people will start calling the competent authorities that you have made the secret photo available!!!

[KCA]

So it’s an ordinary drawing, not a photo, so it’s the imagination of the author of the drawing

[Thrifty]

KSA - but anyway, the drawing is secret, from the Research Institute of Prospects and Desires

[Sardou]

La Russie doit plutôt se pencher dans le développement de systèmes de détection pour détecter n'importe quel cible dans n'importe quel endroit du monde en temps réel et être le leader dans ce domaine

[Third district]

Quote: Sardou

La Russie doit plutôt se pencher dans le développement de systèmes de détection pour détecter n'importe quel cible dans n'importe ee droit du monde en temps réel et être le leader dans ce domaine

Translation:Russia should instead focus on developing detection systems to detect any target anywhere in the world in real time and be a leader in this field.
Really appropriate comment. They talked about this even after the war on 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX. , but it seems those who are supposed to don’t want to listen.

[spirit]

B-2 Spirit and Chinese H-20

+PAK YES and B21, and that’s already 4 bomber vehicles based on the flying wing design. And what do we see? That 3 world nuclear powers in the future are betting on the so-called “favorite” stealth on this resource (these are only known ones for now). They say these are all cuts and dead-end developments. I wonder who will be right in the end? scientific research institutes of 3 super powers or local sofa “experts” who cannot stand stealth. I’m betting on local sofas

[bk0010]

Quote: spirit

They say these are all cuts and dead-end developments. I wonder who will be right in the end?

Both are right: our main theater of operations is Europe. There is such a density of radio-electronic equipment there that no amount of stealth will help: someone on the side will definitely detect it. Why this situation was ignored when drawing up technical specifications for PAK DA is unclear to me. Maybe the main battles are predicted elsewhere...

[cmax]

Quote: bk0010

Why this situation was ignored when drawing up technical specifications for PAK DA is unclear to me.

Do not build by sawing (a popular saying, taking into account the previous 20 years of experience in building aircraft - communications, drones, Armadas, etc., is very appropriate for this case).

[mc1aren]

eh ma... until the age of 27... well, we know how to move it to the right...

[Iris]

The key word is conventional! Although the Duma is trying to bring to the attention of society that this is a dirty word, apparently this is not the case.

[I'm mine]

There is information that the output of transport workers should increase almost 4 times, thanks to the launch of some kind of assembly line. Maybe not alone. There seems to be no official information yet.

[Rom8681]

In May 2001, the Russian Air Force program launched to develop a 5th generation fighter - the advanced aviation complex of front-line aviation (PAK FA) (I-21 program). The preliminary draft was prepared in the second half of 2001 - early 2002.
This was also probably a backlog from the union.
The bomber will probably also be available to the troops in twenty to thirty years, i.e. by the 50th year.

[bk0010]

Quote: Rom8681

The bomber will probably also be in the army in twenty to thirty years

PAK FA is Su-57

[NakedMan]

Stealth will probably work a little worse against thousands of American satellites.

[Yuriy Malyshko]

We have completed the scientific work on creating the stand - this means that the stand itself exists not even in drawings, but in some diagrams, sketches and drawings. Hmmm... This hasn't been reported before.

[Yuriy Malyshko]

We have completed the scientific work on creating the stand - this means that the stand itself exists not even in drawings, but in some diagrams, sketches and drawings. Hmmm... This hasn't been reported before.

[KrolikZanuda]

Title:
...the creation of the stand base has been completed.

Article:
...scientific work on creating a bench base has been completed...

That is, they drew drawings for the construction site translated into Russian.

[VladimirNET]

Quote: Shurik70

2009 - start of work with PAK DA
2023 - built a stand for testing PAK DA parts

It’s better to produce the Tu-160 than the unfinished PAK DA, with the HUGE COST of upgrading its older versions.

[Dedok]

specialists from one of the enterprises of the state corporation successfully completed a full cycle of research and development work to create a testing base and a set of stands.

R & D In most cases does not involve the transfer of a finished sample, but only a well-developed layout
What are they writing about? or the main thing is to crow?