Economy of Russia and Northeast Russia: difficult questions

123
Economy of Russia and Northeast Russia: difficult questions


Question No. 1 – can the military-industrial complex stimulate the economy?


In short, the moral of the fable, which was published in the Profile publication, simply screams from the title “How the military-industrial complex can stimulate the economy, but ruin the state.”



Author Vladislav Grinkevich considers economic growth due to military production while impoverishing the Russian treasury and citizens’ wallets to be one of the plausible, in his version, scenarios. Don't be ignorant of logic.

The state is spent on production, for example, tanks and howitzers, but they do not add value. That is, they do not give the owner the opportunity to earn money. Even buying a personal car is much more effective for the economy - the owner can earn extra money by doing transportation. But a tank can only shoot and crush the enemy with its tracks.

Let's try to understand it not at first glance, but deeper.

By approximately September 2023, Russian industry had managed to adapt to external stresses and intends to show sustainable GDP growth in the coming years. They predict around 2–2,5 percent, which is very good at the global level.

All that remains is to solve the problem of labor resources, which have been sorely lacking in the country lately. Some skeptical experts see the reason in the explosive growth of military production with the simultaneous weakening of the ruble. The treasury was filled with exports, which means there was money for the defense industry.

It’s hard to argue with this - in August the National Welfare Fund immediately added 390 billion rubles. This was largely due to the dollar costing 80–100 rubles. It would be a mistake to consider the oil and gas sector as the key source of income. In fact, in January–August 2023, budget revenues from hydrocarbon exports decreased by almost 40 percent in ruble terms and compared to last year. Gas and oil are cheaper than last year - even the rapid devaluation of the national currency does not help.

Non-oil and gas budget revenues in the first eight months of 2023 increased by 24,2 percent compared to last year. In absolute terms, this is 12,2 trillion rubles versus 4,9 trillion in oil and gas rubles. The advantage is more than twofold.


Now let's touch on the main question - can the military-industrial complex stimulate the economy?

There is such a term as the industry multiplier effect. A tank becomes a tank only in the final stage of the production cycle. Everything is based on casting, forging, stamping, milling, boring, welding, heat treatment, etc. Each conventional tank employs several dozen (if not hundreds) of subcontractors, each of which requires raw materials and special equipment. The plan is growing, workers receive increased wages, which they either spend within the country or simply put in deposits.

This is where that added value appears, the absence of which “Profile” complains. Yes, the tank can do nothing except maul nationalists. But the money paid for it flows into the economy, launching many related production processes and increasing the purchasing power of the population. Under sanctions, the lion's share of the family budget goes to domestic products and goods. The scheme works similarly with hundreds of thousands of mobilized people and volunteers at the front, but more on that later.

High incomes and high plan standards, according to all market laws, should encourage managers to renew their production fleet. What's wrong with fuel suppliers for the Department of Defense spending extra money on new distillation columns or vehicles? The special operation will sooner or later end in our victory, and high-quality petrochemicals will always be needed.

It is worth mentioning separately that there is nothing delightful or wonderful in the above-described scheme. Instead of tanks, it is much more efficient to produce cars - the multiplier effect of this is much higher. But now there is no time for that, so we have to be guided by the calculations indicated earlier. Moreover, in all previous years, few people thought about the domestic industry at all.

Question No. 2 – does the special operation destroy the civilian sector?


Just a year ago, forecasts about a total transition of the Russian economy to a war footing looked like a terrible fairy tale. They say there will be no one to make tractors and combines, all the power will go to tanks and more weapon. The point of view is as funny as it is mediocre. But it is impossible to deny the transition of part of the civilian industry under the wing of the military-industrial complex - according to various estimates, up to one third of the pre-war level is militarized.

The sector of the economy, which has never been occupied with defense, is growing by leaps and bounds. This cannot be directly linked to the special operation, but if February 24, 2022 had not happened, import competitors would not have left Russia. We won't go far for examples.

Chelyabinsk tractor manufacturers from Chetra are recording a 23 percent increase in production volumes this year. Trailer manufacturer Tonar will bring 30–40 percent more products to the market this year. And so it is in most enterprises that are not critically dependent on Western components.

Probably for the first time in modern times stories Russian managers promise to increase the share of R&D expenditures. Previously, this was the Achilles heel of Russia’s technological development – ​​the market was not ready to spend money on promising ideas.


The real obstacle to the growth of the Russian economy may be a chronic labor shortage. The special operation had a very serious impact on this. First, people with low social responsibility fled from Russia in panic - they say there were up to one million of them. Not everyone returned.

Later, mobilization took place, seizing 300 thousand healthy and able-bodied men. Don’t forget about the 335 thousand volunteers who signed a contract with the Ministry of Defense. Heroes defend our country, crush the Nazis, but even at the front they participate in the formation of GDP. They create the same consumer demand that was impossible before - for the vast majority of fighters, a salary of 200 thousand rubles or more was unattainable before the Northern Military District. Some pay off past loans with earned rubles, others save in deposits, but the money works in any case.

An illustrative example is the case of imported cars. Extremely high duties on the import of imported cars (up to 1 million or more for each car), coupled with an expensive dollar, do not allow money to be withdrawn abroad at the same rate, bleeding the economy dry. Yes, you have to pay for this with the quality of domestic products, but this is definitely not a priority now.

In defiance of Profile experts who insist on the destructive impact of the SVO on the Russian economy, we can cite statistics on the withdrawal of funds abroad. Over thirty years, oligarchs and government agencies took away 14 trillion dollars. Those who care have calculated that this is one billion dollars a day! No matter how cynical it may sound, a special operation now costs the people much less than economic games in the past.

Finally, we will simulate a situation in which defense spending will not decrease in the foreseeable future, but will only increase. The author of the material in “Profile” cites the words of Sun Tzu for the sake of caution:

“It has never happened that a war lasted for a long time and it would be beneficial to the state.”

It's hard to argue with a well-deserved classic, but there are a few comments. Combat has always been the engine of progress. It was the war, albeit a cold one, that allowed us to touch space and show humanity all the delights of microelectronics. Russia already intends to revive and, in some cases, build entire industries from scratch. In some places it works, in others it doesn’t yet, for example, in the production of microprocessors. But the work is underway, and you can’t argue with that. Just a little slower than required.

Let us repeat once again that considering a special operation as an engine of progress and considering this to be a benefit for the economy is blasphemous. But it is at least premature to consider it a factor in the gradual impoverishment and degradation of the state.
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  1. +14
    24 November 2023 06: 09
    Not a bad article, I didn’t find one important detail: the military-industrial complex really contributes to the growth of the country’s economy only when it is 1. Based on a closed cycle (foreign components and workers are not used), 2. the country has a barrier against the withdrawal of funds abroad (currency control)
    1. +6
      24 November 2023 06: 25
      Not a bad article, I didn’t find one important detail: the military-industrial complex really contributes to the growth of the country’s economy only when it is 1. Based on a closed cycle (foreign components and workers are not used), 2. the country has a barrier against the withdrawal of funds abroad (currency control)

      3. The most important thing.
      When products are sold abroad for hard currency.
      Weapons are also goods. Tank - bulldozer with a cannon.
      1. +17
        24 November 2023 10: 54
        All that remains is to solve the problem of labor resources, which have been sorely lacking in the country lately.

        There is capitalism in the country and no one owes anyone anything. If you want to find workers, pay the appropriate money.
        Example. One of our factories suddenly urgently needed many milling operators and operators for CNC machines. And they offered a salary of around 100 rubles. Naturally, the line did not gather to plow from 000 am to 08 shift. Since those who know how, have been working for themselves for a long time, neither those hours-long operatives, nor the master with presentations, nor the security guard’s aunt who writes a report for being 17.00 seconds late with subsequent fines. They work in garages where there are now huge queues for them.
        Why the queue? Next, the author will explain to us why:
        An illustrative example is the case of imported cars. Extremely high duties on the import of imported cars (up to 1 million or more for each car), coupled with an expensive dollar, do not allow money to be withdrawn abroad at the same pace, bleeding the economy

        People are repairing cars that are rapidly losing their service life. New ones cost as much as apartments in cities with a population of over a million because...
        There is a SVO, it would be possible to make concessions for people - remove horse duties and increase wages for the population.
        If the state, represented by the author, asks the population to understand and accept the economic situation, one could begin to meet the people halfway. Which is fighting by the way. And for the people and for the state and for the owners of factories, newspapers, ships.
    2. +7
      25 November 2023 06: 54
      Quote: Vladimir80
      Good article

      So am I the only one who thinks the author of the article is delusional?
      In fact, in January–August 2023, budget revenues from hydrocarbon exports decreased by almost 40 percent in ruble terms and compared to last year.
      and right there:
      Non-oil and gas budget revenues in the first eight months of 2023 increased by 24,2 percent compared to last year. In absolute terms, this is 12,2 trillion rubles versus 4,9 trillion in oil and gas rubles.

      So did they fall by 40% or increase by 24,2%?
      And what about 12,2 trillion rubles of oil and gas budget revenues versus 4,9 trillion oil and gas rubles? Finger versus finger?
      And finally:
      Now let's touch on the main question - can the military-industrial complex stimulate the economy?

      There is such a term as the industry multiplier effect. A tank becomes a tank only in the final stage of the production cycle. Everything is based on casting, forging, stamping, milling, boring, welding, heat treatment, etc. Each conventional tank employs several dozen (if not hundreds) of subcontractors, each of which requires raw materials and special equipment. The plan is growing, workers receive increased wages, which they either spend within the country or simply put in deposits.

      This is where that added value appears, the absence of which “Profile” complains.

      Here's a man who had a wonderful lunch, went for a walk and got stuck in a swamp as much as he could. The brainstorming began - how to get out? Neurons of the brain are working at full capacity! And then - Eureka! He grabs his hair with both hands and pulls as hard as he can! Breathing intensifies, blood oxygen saturation increases, the heart begins to work harder, pumping blood through the body faster, the muscles of the arms (and not only the arms) tensed, receiving excellent physical training, the scalp received a wonderful massage, the metabolism in the body increased. In short, the whole body benefited greatly!
      I’m just embarrassed to ask - did he pull himself out of the swamp?
      1. +3
        25 November 2023 12: 37
        Non-oil and gas budget revenues increased in the first eight months of 2023.........

        NOToil and gas revenues.....well, in what follows in the text they are meant.....
        1. +2
          25 November 2023 21: 20
          Plus for you! Sorry, I read it without glasses! But in principle I disagree with the author. The production of weapons can bring profit to the country if it is sold abroad. And war (whatever you call it - ATO, SVO, Peace Enforcement Operation, etc.) will never bring economic benefit to the warring parties, even in the event of victory and receipt of indemnities. Unless, of course, conscience does not allow the ruined lives of their citizens to be converted into hard cash.
          1. +3
            26 November 2023 11: 37
            Quote: Mihaylo Tishayshiy
            But war (whatever you call it - ATO, SVO, Peace Enforcement Operation, etc.) will never bring economic benefit to the warring parties, even in the event of victory

            Only in case of victory, the consequences of the war will be much less than in case of defeat. And with some reservations, the victory itself can be considered a profit. And since the war was inevitable (and it was inevitable if we are talking about the continued existence of Russia), then in any case we had to fight and win. Otherwise vae victis...
            Second: during the war, due to the departure of foreign capitalists earning money for their pockets in Russia, there was a very strong breakthrough in domestic producers. And even if in absolute terms economic indicators have not yet reached pre-war values, then when assessing the economic growth of the DOMESTIC sector of the economy, this is undoubted growth and development.
            And third: after a victorious war, historically there has ALWAYS been a powerful economic breakthrough.
            Therefore, I propose to consider the current state of the economy as development. Just start not from the figures that were drawn to us by the dominance of foreign capitalists working in Russia solely in their own interests - but minus them. And growth should not be calculated from absolute pre-war figures, but from pre-war figures specifically in the DOMESTIC sector of the economy.
            1. -1
              2 December 2023 08: 05
              Quote: Peter_Koldunov
              Quote: Mihaylo Tishayshiy
              But war (whatever you call it - ATO, SVO, Peace Enforcement Operation, etc.) will never bring economic benefit to the warring parties, even in the event of victory

              Only in case of victory, the consequences of the war will be much less than in case of defeat. And with some reservations, the victory itself can be considered a profit. And since the war was inevitable (and it was inevitable if we are talking about the continued existence of Russia), then in any case we had to fight and win. Otherwise vae victis...
              Second: during the war, due to the departure of foreign capitalists earning money for their pockets in Russia, there was a very strong breakthrough in domestic producers. And even if in absolute terms economic indicators have not yet reached pre-war values, then when assessing the economic growth of the DOMESTIC sector of the economy, this is undoubted growth and development.
              And third: after a victorious war, historically there has ALWAYS been a powerful economic breakthrough.
              Therefore, I propose to consider the current state of the economy as development. Just start not from the figures that were drawn to us by the dominance of foreign capitalists working in Russia solely in their own interests - but minus them. And growth should not be calculated from absolute pre-war figures, but from pre-war figures specifically in the DOMESTIC sector of the economy.

              If war was inevitable, then perhaps it was necessary to prepare for it? Develop the economy, build up the army, not export money and not keep it with potential enemies, etc., etc.? Or at least don’t steal everything that is poorly nailed down, just one and a half million sets of uniforms that are worth. The fact that war is inevitable as a clash of imperialist predators, then there is nothing to argue about.
    3. 0
      26 November 2023 23: 17
      Quote: Vladimir80
      2. the country has a barrier against the withdrawal of funds abroad (currency control)

      Hmm, have you tried to make a payment abroad?) Do you think there is no barrier?)) The rules change every day... this week it is no longer possible to transfer anything other than rubles and yuan.
      1. +1
        28 November 2023 03: 23
        Quote: MamboPoa
        Do you think there is no barrier?)) The rules change every day... this week, it is no longer possible to transfer anything other than rubles and yuan.

        And isn't that wonderful? fellow
        Not a penny for the Enemy!!
        After all, okay, before I only used it on transactions and using deposits for loans. And now he’s completely gotten into the habit of stealing! stop
        1. -2
          28 November 2023 21: 58
          Quote: bayard
          Not a penny for the Enemy!!

          Give away all your computer equipment, from the router to the smartphone, the washing machine (except the board), the TV (except the Soviet one) and a bunch of other items, including socks. Because all of a sudden you have to pay for it abroad. Otherwise they won’t bring you, that’s how they are, enemies.
    4. +2
      28 November 2023 03: 07
      Quote: Vladimir80
      The military-industrial complex really contributes to the growth of the country’s economy only when it is 1. Based on a closed cycle (foreign components and workers are not used)

      The very nature of the domestic military-industrial complex is based on the fact that all components must be domestic. The only exception now is some electronic components, analogues of which have not yet been localized in our country. But even in this segment, the Sword of Damocles, the threat of stopping such supplies, forces the domestic industry to work hard to create analogues. And this is also the engine of progress in Science, Technology and in the development of domestic high-tech and complex industries.
      War is always a threat to the entire State and Society, it is always the Moment of Truth, an Exam of Maturity and a scientific and technical driver.
      Quote: Vladimir80
      2. the country has a barrier against the withdrawal of funds abroad (currency control)

      Again, in war conditions, and specifically now, the enemy himself has created and continues to create exceptional conditions for building such barriers. Well, how will you withdraw funds to the West? To do this, they must be converted into dollars and euros... but transactions are prohibited... and the withdrawn funds immediately fall under the arrest of the Enemy... and our exports are now oriented not to the West, but to the East and the Global South... What Are there dollars here? Here it’s the opposite - the nouveau riche and offshore companies got so burned out that they rushed to their native jurisdiction to save their capital! In Russia !!
      And since money must work, it will now work for the domestic economy, providing it with that same “Growth” and “Development”.
      So the article is really correct and timely. It’s just that the production of a private car gives a greater multiplier effect than a tank (conditionally, even if we take the number of cars corresponding to the cost of the tank)... I don’t agree. Especially for Russia and the current moment in the current conditions today.
      Will explain .
      Firstly, the percentage of foreign components in domestic cars is simply monstrous, and therefore the buyer of such a car will finance a foreign manufacturer and contribute to the transfer of money abroad. request
      Secondly, having bought a car, its owner will not need a new car for 5, or even 10-15 years, and all his expenses will be only for the maintenance and servicing of this car... And all these expenses will fall on his (the car’s) budget. owner... Reducing his consumer demand and expenses for many other categories of goods... That is, banks, sellers, the service industry and the state as a recipient of taxes are good... but all this is at the expense of whom? That's right - the owner of the car.
      Now let's look at the TANK fellow . Yes, here there is one continuous beauty, power and benefit! The state pays for the tank, and through cooperation chains its cost is distributed among its creators. Enterprises make a profit and can spend it on development and bonuses, and employees, having received their salaries... begin to SPEND them! ...Incl. and for the purchase of cars. Yes Launching the same multiplicative process. And note, both enterprises and employees spend this money not as credit funds that have yet to be repaid, but with a clear conscience, without nerves and risks.
      Do you feel the difference? And it is great - to spend your own, or a loan, getting into the bondage of banks.
      Moreover, having purchased a TANK. The state does not stop there. A tank needs ammunition, oils, maintenance vehicles, spare parts, repair shops and... personnel for all this. ON AN ONGOING BASIS !!! And the same thing happens with all this, but on a permanent(!) basis.
      Do you feel how the multiplier has earned?! wink
      The salary alone for military personnel (not only the crew, but also all the staff) is worth so much! fellow And all this goes to the Domestic Consumer Market! Yes And it already launches a multiplier there, because the money spent there goes through trading networks to Group-B enterprises (as they said in the Soviet Union) - producers of consumer goods and services. And from them... again a cartoonist! And so - The circulation of finance in the economy. And the more of this finance flows into it (into the Economy) through... the purchase of conditional tanks, shells, fuel and lubricants, ammunition and military salaries... the better the Economy will feel. good
      - What about the budget?? - you ask - he will incur SUCH expenses on the purchase of TANKS!!!
      - Calmness stop , just calm. The budget, through tax revenues from each turnover of these funds poured into the Economy (through the purchase of tanks, of course), will eventually receive back... much larger funds! Yes Yes , this process will be extended over time, but revenues will not just cover expenses Yes , not only will they be exceeded Yes , but will also do this process... belay constant bully For these funds will henceforth circulate in the Economy, like the blood in the veins of an athlete. Developing and strengthening it.
      Now look at the alternative. winked
      The state announces a certain “project” ... of course, a state one ... Let’s say the improvement of country roads in the “Non-Black Earth Region” ... or a program for the improvement of small towns. what Not only will officials and contractors simply steal most of the allocated funds... they will hire migrants to carry out these works, buy imported equipment (now it’s true that they can be domestic, but most likely Chinese), consumables (also often imported), migrants will carry out work... maybe even good and high quality, but having received salaries request They will send them to their families back home, and part of them will be transferred to the common fund of the diaspora - to finance ethnic mafias, corrupt Russian officials and for the luxurious life of the elites of these same diasporas.
      Oh yes, officials and contractors will certainly take the money stolen from the project offshore, so that even if they get caught, the stolen money will not be lost. Now most likely not to the west, but to... the south. To the same Emirates...
      And what remains for the State?
      At best, the front of completed work. Poor tax revenues and the growing criminality of foreign ethnic diasporas... And a corrupt bureaucracy.
      What does the Economy have to do with this?
      Yes, almost complete losses. request Money (the lifeblood of the economy), for the most part, has been withdrawn from domestic jurisdiction, creating considerable pressure to depreciate the ruble exchange rate. The economy has been drained of blood and... almost no multiplier effect.
      That's how it was for us!
      Until SVO.
      And now it’s already becoming... through the “I don’t want” corrupt officials and criminalized business... otherwise.
      At the very least, the multiplier effect of the defense industry and the industry as a whole, as well as the result of sanctions, which made it difficult to withdraw capital, making the withdrawal of funds extremely risky... ensured that same growth in the Industrial sector by about 8%, and in the whole Economy - about 3% this year .

      So for OUR Economy, TANKS turn out to be much more profitable than corruption schemes with “national projects”.
      hi
  2. +15
    24 November 2023 06: 10
    War then makes economic sense when it brings profit. Cortes, Pissaro, other conquistadors. Holds full of gold = economic breakthrough.
    In other cases, it's money down the drain. Well, except for “Get up, huge country,” of course.
    1. -2
      24 November 2023 06: 46
      Quote: Arzt
      War makes economic sense when it makes a profit

      Economic sense usually appears after the end of the war... It’s like an investor’s profit, which usually appears after the money has been invested somewhere and after some time has begun to work...
      1. +1
        25 November 2023 21: 56
        War makes economic sense when it makes a profit

        Economic sense usually appears after the end of the war... It’s like an investor’s profit, which usually appears after the money has been invested somewhere and after some time has begun to work...

        Now yes. The economy has become more complicated. It used to be simpler, Svyatoslav gathered a squad and went to Constantinople. We took the jackpot, sat and drank. We've had enough to drink - it's time to go hiking again. laughing
    2. +8
      24 November 2023 07: 15
      Holds full of gold = economic breakthrough.
      In other cases, it's money down the drain.
      Gold, for some reason, didn’t bring happiness to Spain, it was quickly spent on goodies
      1. +11
        24 November 2023 07: 53
        Quote: parusnik
        For some reason gold did not bring happiness to Spain

        Because too much gold corrupted Spain, so “everything can be bought” was firmly entrenched in the ols, and they bought everything, and “suddenly” it turned out that Spain had become “only a channel for gold”, everything spread throughout Europe. No one developed industry, but ambitions were “through the roof”, hence the endless wars that, regardless of the outcome, destroyed the best of the people and again emptied the treasury. But Spain held out for quite a long time, although there were defaults on its debts one after another (1557, 1560, 1575, 1596).
        1. 0
          25 November 2023 22: 12
          Because too much gold corrupted Spain, so “everything can be bought” was firmly entrenched in the ols, and they bought everything, and “suddenly” it turned out that Spain had become “only a channel for gold”, everything spread throughout Europe. No one developed industry, but ambitions were “through the roof”, hence the endless wars that, regardless of the outcome, destroyed the best of the people and again emptied the treasury. But Spain held out for quite a long time, although there were defaults on its debts one after another (1557, 1560, 1575, 1596).


          Industry may not develop for centuries. laughing

      2. +5
        24 November 2023 08: 13
        Quote: parusnik
        Holds full of gold = economic breakthrough.
        In other cases, it's money down the drain.
        Gold, for some reason, didn’t bring happiness to Spain, it was quickly spent on goodies

        While Spain was spending America's gold, it managed to defeat France and the Ottoman Empire and many others. Without American gold, this would in principle be impossible for a relatively poor country.
      3. +3
        24 November 2023 21: 58
        yes, it was there that the phrase “drinking away the sun” was born
    3. 0
      25 November 2023 22: 23
      Arzt (....). Yesterday, 06:10. NEW. . yours - "...War then makes economic sense when it brings profit..."

      Colleague. and you haven’t mixed up the “horse and cart”!7 feel
      If. the economy is like a “flea” on a string and critical dependence on components (thanks to VPISKA in the international economic system). They either lost theirs (thanks not all to former partners (the West). And now there is a “reorientation” of “import substitution” supplies to the East. bully And when is yours!?. hi It seems that the “threat” of Lithuania to ban the supply of NAILS and SEWING NEEDLES has not been forgotten. Wow!!! crying
      When will finally at least the economy be taken care of by non-aggressive trendists. in locations with zero competencies. but with top-notch financial content"!? belay
      There has long been an analysis by Russian economists of economic options and their effectiveness with proposals for implementation. Book "Crystal of Growth"..
      So what...!?
      love
      "The wisdom of Siluanov (how many times the budget was successfully cut, including for development and development in the interests of the RF Ministry of Defense). multiplied by Nabiulina’s “overwhelming contribution” (“thank you” now, at least without the insider “Broshkin” leak. but with a “stable gallop” with the interest rate.) and continuous innovations in Gref’s “competencies”( his “thought” is that the people cannot be allowed to gain knowledge and power! How). But what about the book of life - “The Constitution of the Russian Federation”!? belay And innovation too. At least someone. if not the experience of the USSR. then at least China’s experience in protecting at least from cyber warfare of the United States and the outside world. and the experience of “games” with “eco-systems” was considered...or is Chubais’ “laurels” in Rusnano not allowing one to sleep!? feel
      1. 0
        27 November 2023 20: 01
        Arzt (....). Yesterday, 06:10. NEW. . yours - "...War then makes economic sense when it brings profit..."

        Colleague. and you haven’t mixed up the “horse and cart”!7 feel
        If. the economy is like a “flea” on a string and critical dependence on components (thanks to VPISKA in the international economic system). Ours or leaked (thanks not all to former partners (West). And now there is a “reorientation” of “import substitution” supplies to the East. bully And when is ours!?. hi The “threat”, it seems, of Lithuania to ban the supply of NAILS AND SEWING NEEDLES has not been forgotten. How! crying!!crying
        When will the economy finally be dealt with not by “aggressive trendists, in localities with zero competencies, but with top financial support”!? belay
        There has long been an analysis by Russian economists of economic options and their effectiveness with proposals for implementation. Book "Crystal of Growth"..
        So what...!? love
        “Wisdom” of Siluanov (how many times “the budget was successfully cut, including for development and development in the interests of the RF Ministry of Defense). multiplied by the “exorbitant contribution” of Nabiulina (“thank you” now, at least without the insider “Broshkin” leak. but with “ stable gallop" with an interest rate.) and continuous innovations in Gref's "competences" (his "thought" is that the people cannot be allowed to gain knowledge and power! Why). But what about the book of life - "The Constitution of the Russian Federation"!? belay Yes, and innovations too. Anyone at least. if not the experience of the USSR. then at least the experience of China in protecting at least from cyber warfare of the USA and the outside world. and the experience of “games” with “ecosystems” was considered ... or “laurels” Chubais in Rusnano doesn't let you sleep!? feel


        What does Chubais and corruption in general have to do with it? It was about wars. Which can be profitable or unprofitable. Svyatoslav, Vikings, conquistadors, Mongols with their tribute are profitable wars. WWII, Vietnam, Afghanistan - unprofitable.
        In the first case, the state grows stronger, in the second, it weakens. Yes
  3. -1
    24 November 2023 06: 38
    words of Sun Tzu:
    “It has never happened that a war lasted for a long time and it would be beneficial to the state.”

    The medieval Sun Tzu never visited the modern United States, whose economy rests on two pillars: a photocopier for printing dollars and a military-industrial complex that produces weapons. And to ensure a sustainable sale of these weapons, the government of this country regularly provokes and/or starts wars around the world. There will be no wars - there will be no American military-industrial complex, there will be no American "wonder-economy"
    1. +11
      24 November 2023 08: 01
      Quote: Amateur
      whose economy rests on two pillars: a photocopier for printing dollars and the military-industrial complex

      That’s true, but don’t forget about the third pillar: techies. After all, Microsoft with Google, Boeing with General Electrics and John Deere with Ford have not gone away, they work and are crushing competitors all over the world with all their might... It is clear that all the “whales” work in close cooperation.
  4. +13
    24 November 2023 06: 38
    . R&D. Previously, this was the Achilles heel of Russia’s technological development – the market was not ready spend money on promising ideas.

    Ah, that's who's to blame. An impersonal market, not specific names!

    . took out 14 trillion dollars. Those who care have calculated that this is one billion dollars a day! No matter how cynical it may sound, a special operation now costs people much less than economic games in the past.

    In past? Really? Now there is a double load. And SVO and exporting money abroad.

    . Can the military-industrial complex stimulate the economy?

    Maybe if we sell weapons. But Russia's share in arms sales has been declining over the past ten years.

    But let's go down a level. If let’s say you bought (or produced) weapons for yourself, will you become richer from this? Hardly.

    . with labor resources, which have recently been in the country sorely lacking

    Why then are our wages so low? We have a country with cheap labor and a low level of automation and robotization. If there were a truly acute shortage of labor resources, then this would not have happened by definition.

    This is the big picture. And in the moment there may be a temporary lack of resources somewhere. And where there is a shortage, we see wages growing. Demand creates supply.
    1. -5
      24 November 2023 07: 12
      Quote: Stas157
      Why then are our wages so low? We have a country with cheap labor and a low level of automation and robotization. If there was there is really an acute shortage of labor resources, then this would not have happened by definition.
      - a trivial example - in the USSR there was a wild shortage of cleaners, who were always needed - in all the advertisements "Wanted....." in factories/factories/offices they were always there. But they were paid a salary - 60 rubles. If demand gave rise to supply - they would have been paid 120 and the issue would have been removed. But no, the economy, even the directive Soviet one, believed that 60 rubles and that’s it.
      From the modern one, for the last 5 years we have had a shortage in the police force in the region. Now for six months there have been 2 vacancies for traffic cops (!!!!!), I am silent about the local police officers - there is always a shortage there. And this is with a salary that is quite decent for small towns.
      So NOT always
      Quote: Stas157
      Demand creates supply.
      1. +8
        24 November 2023 07: 19
        Quote: your1970
        trivial example - in the USSR there was a wild shortage of cleaners

        In the USSR there was a shortage because the economy there was not a market economy, but a planned one. Therefore, your banal example is completely unsuccessful. In a market where demand determines supply, everything is different. There is no shortage. There are high prices for things that are desperately needed.
  5. -3
    24 November 2023 06: 42
    Both sides are right - there are pros and cons.
    The economy becomes unbalanced and a bias is formed towards goods of group A.
    And this will then affect the population. For example, in the USSR (taking into account the very small salary allowance in the army) - it was necessary to carry out a monetary reform. And this takes into account the absence of oligarchs, cuts and kickbacks.
    What will happen after SVO? Don't know...
  6. +13
    24 November 2023 07: 08
    There are no advantages that Nabiulina, Siluanov and their liberal gop company cannot turn into disadvantages.
  7. +10
    24 November 2023 07: 13
    The special operation will sooner or later end in our victory
    What will Russia gain as a result of victory? The goals are simple: denazification and demilitarization. Denazification is clear. Demilitarization is not entirely clear. Destruction of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine into dust? Or the transition of the military-industrial complex to the full control of Russia?
    1. AAK
      +4
      24 November 2023 16: 07
      The second would be more expedient - the defense industry of Kiev, Kharkov, Zaporozhye, Dnepropetrovsk, Nikolaev, Krivoy Rog would be quite useful, but for this, some people first had to think carefully three years ago, analyze the situation, outline ways to solve this problem and choose smart performers, who should have done everything in their power to ensure that the SVO was successfully completed in 6-8 months approximately on the Kiev-Odessa line... But alas, the head relied on a rotten agreement and nepotism, the hands were hooks, both - “leftists” and even without brains and thieves... well, “Pinocchio” generally had to go through one person to the sawmill....
  8. +13
    24 November 2023 08: 08
    But the money paid for it flows into the economy, launching many related production processes and increasing the purchasing power of the population

    The author makes a huge mistake here. It is clear that money increases the purchasing power of the population, but the amount of material wealth in the economy does not increase from the production of the tank. There are the same or even fewer civilian consumer goods, but more money - what is the result? There are fewer civilian products in each unit of money, which we see in the rise in price of everything from eggs to apartments.
    1. +10
      24 November 2023 08: 14
      Quote from Escariot
      The author makes a huge mistake here. It is clear that money increases the purchasing power of the population, but the amount of material wealth in the economy does not increase from the production of the tank. There are the same or even fewer civilian consumer goods, but more money - what is the result? Each unit of civilian products becomes more expensive, which we see in the rise in price of everything from eggs to apartments.

      And thus, this is simply an inflation tax on the population, which can be dispersed until food riots begin. At the same time, purchasing power falls due to this, since inflation has a positive feedback. The population sees that the currency is falling, from which they begin to get rid of their currency in all their transactions, accelerating the impoverishment at an ever-accelerating pace.

      Well, and most importantly, if the military-industrial complex could drag down the economy, it would be possible to make tanks and dump them into the sea and receive a profit. More tanks at sea, more economic development. wassat
      1. +1
        24 November 2023 08: 29
        Quote: BlackMokona
        Quote from Escariot
        The author makes a huge mistake here. It is clear that money increases the purchasing power of the population, but the amount of material wealth in the economy does not increase from the production of the tank. There are the same or even fewer civilian consumer goods, but more money - what is the result? Each unit of civilian products becomes more expensive, which we see in the rise in price of everything from eggs to apartments.
        Well, and most importantly, if the military-industrial complex could drag down the economy, it would be possible to make tanks and dump them into the sea and receive a profit. More tanks at sea, more economic development. wassat

        You've come up with a very complicated scheme here. Similarly, you can “develop” the economy simply by distributing money to everyone. Effective demand is growing laughing
        1. +2
          24 November 2023 08: 31
          Quote from Escariot
          You've come up with a very complicated scheme here. Similarly, you can “develop” the economy simply by distributing money to everyone. Effective demand is growing

          This is a less effective scheme, since imports will grow dramatically, and the economy will not keep up. Still, something needs to be produced. For example, concrete cubic kilometers. Will be our answer to the Egyptian pyramids. winked
      2. 0
        24 November 2023 11: 46
        Quote: BlackMokona

        Well, and most importantly, if the military-industrial complex could drag down the economy, it would be possible to make tanks and dump them into the sea and receive a profit. More tanks at sea, more economic development. wassat


        This would be good if we could force our competitors to dump even more tanks into the sea than we dump.
        For the economy of the world is communicating vessels.

        Since humanity has solved the problem of hunger and cold, the economy of all countries has been based on the great “I want it to be bigger and better than my neighbor’s.”
        If a country wins a war, its economy grows, as does its population as a result.
        Specialists are going/returning to it, creating new unprecedented tanks...
      3. +7
        24 November 2023 13: 48
        Quote: BlackMokona
        Well, and most importantly, if the military-industrial complex could drag down the economy, it would be possible to make tanks and dump them into the sea and receive a profit. More tanks at sea, more economic development.

        Bravo!
        You just described the US economic profit from Lend-Lease :)))))))) It was the “acceleration” of American industry during WWII (after stagnation in the Great Depression) that became one of the pillars of the dominance of US industry in the post-war world. For a while, of course, because no push is eternal according to the law of conservation of energy...
        1. +9
          24 November 2023 14: 37
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: BlackMokona
          Well, and most importantly, if the military-industrial complex could drag down the economy, it would be possible to make tanks and dump them into the sea and receive a profit. More tanks at sea, more economic development.

          Bravo!
          You just described the US economic profit from Lend-Lease :)))))))) It was the “acceleration” of American industry during WWII (after stagnation in the Great Depression) that became one of the pillars of the dominance of US industry in the post-war world. For a while, of course, because no push is eternal according to the law of conservation of energy...

          Postwar growth in the United States owes primarily to the opening of markets. The highly efficient industry of the states with intact infrastructure and a huge amount of both labor and excess capacity simply tore the markets away from their debtors.
          And what markets will open for the Russian Federation after the end of the SVO? Used market, which is as poor as a church mouse? The West has imposed sanctions and they are getting stronger. And Russia itself is fencing itself off from the foreign market by introducing more and more customs barriers (have you heard about scrap collection?), why would others open their markets to Russia?
          1. +3
            24 November 2023 18: 06
            Postwar growth in the United States owes primarily to the opening of markets.


            Probably not.
            There was simply no market after the war in the usual sense outside the United States. Because there was simply no demand abroad. The United States began to export capital, but it was necessary to wait until it made a profit.

            The phenomenon of post-war growth is sufficiently explained here:
            https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/tupperware-consumer/
            https://www.mercatus.org/research/policy-briefs/economic-recovery-lessons-post-world-war-ii-period
            The key is the colossal domestic market for consumer goods, especially durable ones. There has been a “gadgetization” of households.
            Between 1945 and 1949, Americans purchased 20 million refrigerators, 21.4 million cars, and 5.5 million stoves, a trend that continued well into the 1950s.
        2. +4
          24 November 2023 14: 41
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Bravo!
          You just described the US economic profit from Lend-Lease :))))))))

          I don’t completely agree... it was military goods - tanks, guns, airplanes, ammunition - of the total lend-lease composition that made up about a third (as far as I remember), i.e. nevertheless, most of the production was developed in the civilian sphere of the USA .. there was also a reverse lend-lease, and 3 times more than the USSR, small-shaven people put it on it .. besides this, what is the use .. the industrial center of the world of the 40s - "EU + USSR" is in ruins, modern China does not yet exist as a global factory, so who should we turn to for equipment, etc., after WW2? There is no one in particular except the striped ones - so they rose at the expense of the whole world... in our time, this will not work as a way to “rise”, since the EU and the striped ones and China are in place and intact... accordingly, they would have There wouldn’t have been one or two striped real global competitors after WW2, but the capitalists calculated well..
    2. +2
      24 November 2023 08: 39
      which is what we see in the rise in price of everything

      The reasons for the rise in prices for products are the lack of a real state regulator (the enemy Central Bank is doing nothing but raising rates) and high dependence on imports (despite the lies about import substitution)
      1. +4
        24 November 2023 09: 05
        Quote: Vladimir80
        which is what we see in the rise in price of everything

        The reasons for the rise in prices for products are the lack of a real state regulator (the enemy Central Bank is doing nothing but raising rates) and high dependence on imports (despite the lies about import substitution)

        What else can the Central Bank do? Reduce the amount of money printed? Then the budget will be left with a bare ass.
        So the choice is not great: either the fullness of the budget wallet (from which government programs are financed) or the fullness of your personal pocket. The choice for the Central Bank is obvious.
        1. +5
          24 November 2023 12: 44
          The Central Bank can leave a low key rate, and the Ministry of Finance can prohibit the withdrawal of currency abroad by banks (i.e., all cross-border transactions must be controlled - this is very simple as part of general digitalization), plus connect the FAS to monitoring rising prices for goods (this is also not difficult ). But in fact, the colony continues to follow the rules written by its owners in the 90s - “you must always sell resources for our money, the key rate must always be higher than in our countries”
          1. -3
            24 November 2023 16: 35
            Quote: Vladimir80
            The Central Bank can leave a low key rate, and the Ministry of Finance can prohibit the withdrawal of currency abroad by banks (i.e., all cross-border transactions must be controlled - this is very simple as part of general digitalization), plus connect the FAS to monitoring rising prices for goods (this is also not difficult ). But in fact, the colony continues to follow the rules written by its owners in the 90s - “you must always sell resources for our money, the key rate must always be higher than in our countries”

            Do you know that with the money sent abroad, our manufacturers buy machines and equipment, loans are refinanced, workers are paid, payments are made for vacations abroad, etc.?
            And of course, there are no rules “written by the owners,” because the Central Bank does exactly what is allowed to it by law and in accordance with its mandate approved by Parliament. Well, the head of the Central Bank is personally proposed by the President. Or is he also part of the colonial administration?
            1. +3
              24 November 2023 17: 06
              buy machines and equipment

              of course, and in the end, they remained as a gas station.... the equipment is okay (it has a long depreciation period, you don’t need to buy it every year), but consumables (such as chemical reagents to produce white paper or seeds for potatoes) are disgrace!!!!
              Well, the head of the Central Bank is personally proposed by the President

              You are a smart person, draw your own conclusion
              p.s. Taking into account the fact that today some people stated about the importance and necessity of AI in everything - there is no doubt!!!!
              1. -7
                24 November 2023 17: 24
                Quote: Vladimir80
                Today someone said about the importance and necessity of AI in all

                My friend, you are either stupid or still on salary:

                Quote: Putin
                Humanity has developed certain rules related to the use of nuclear technologies, including in the military field, - nonproliferation. It came up with rules for the non-proliferation of carriers, carrier technologies, and therefore nuclear technologies themselves. <...> This means that in in the field of artificial intelligence, we may well reach common solutions that are acceptable to everyone and necessary for everyone

                Where is your “in everything” here, point your finger, don’t be shy Yes
              2. +3
                24 November 2023 18: 21
                Quote: Vladimir80
                buy machines and equipment

                of course, and in the end, they remained as a gas station.... the equipment is okay (it has a long depreciation period, you don’t need to buy it every year), but consumables (such as chemical reagents to produce white paper or seeds for potatoes) are disgrace!!!!
                Well, the head of the Central Bank is personally proposed by the President

                You are a smart person, draw your own conclusion
                p.s. Taking into account the fact that today some people stated about the importance and necessity of AI in everything - there is no doubt!!!!

                You can't do everything well. Some countries are good at ballet, others at fast food. And on this basis there is international cooperation. We are now trying to cosplay the Juche theory. As a result, our potato seeds are worse than those of a country that specializes in seed production and the paper is not so white, because the chemical industry is not developed. And so on across the spectrum. And to even catch up with former partners requires decades of work and multi-billion dollar investments in each industry. Even the USSR was drawn into cooperation with the CMEA, but still some of the products were worse than in the West. And when the market was opened, it turned out that the products of our chemical industry were worse than the German ones, and our breeders produced products worse than the Dutch ones. End customers quickly voted with rubles. Now some of the competencies have been lost.
            2. +3
              24 November 2023 22: 07
              “Well, the President personally proposes the head of the Central Bank. Or is he also part of the colonial administration?”
              naturally. and not even the most important one. it's just a talking bird
              1. 0
                25 November 2023 19: 29
                And after the pension reform, after the optimization of hospital beds, after Covid-XNUMX, after all these gestures, zeroing, red lines and regroupings, are there any other options?
        2. -1
          24 November 2023 20: 30
          So the choice is not great: either the fullness of the budget wallet (from which government programs are financed) or the fullness of your personal pocket. The choice for the Central Bank is obvious

          Well, in fairness, the Central Bank must maintain a balance between these things. And there is an opinion that, in general, the “enemy Central Bank” is coping with this quite well, especially against the backdrop of this SVO.
  9. +2
    24 November 2023 08: 35
    Well, as always, someone sends billions abroad into their accounts, and I am to blame for the ruin of the country and the flight of capital, who bought a 13-year-old small car in Japan, because I simply cannot afford to buy a domestic car, much less maintain and repair it her....
    1. +3
      24 November 2023 08: 51
      Quote from turembo
      Well, as always, someone sends billions abroad into their accounts, and I am to blame for the ruin of the country and the flight of capital, who bought a 13-year-old small car in Japan, because I simply cannot afford to buy a domestic car, much less maintain and repair it her....

      It’s not your fault, but someone still has to pay for the SVO - and it will be you personally. Or did you have any illusions about this?
      1. -1
        24 November 2023 19: 22
        Yes, he will not pay for SVO! Where did he get that kind of money? He will buy a captured BMW from his “neighbor” and will make fun of you while giggling.
  10. +1
    24 November 2023 08: 45
    Quote from Escariot
    Similarly, you can “develop” the economy simply by distributing money to everyone. Effective demand is growing laughing


    2008 global crisis, Germany directly provides citizens with subsidies for the purchase of cars; Russia subsidizes industry...
    What is the difference between the approaches?
    What goals do such approaches solve????
    1. +2
      25 November 2023 19: 32
      The fact is that we financed selected oligarchs, and the German population was in the German army.
  11. BAI
    +3
    24 November 2023 09: 43
    Question No. 2 – does the special operation destroy the civilian sector?


    It seems to me that this is why metallurgists in 2022, as soon as the Northern War began, raised metal prices by 2 times (all prices for building materials followed them) - they foresaw a large consumption of metal for the war, so they decided to profit from this business.
    1. 0
      26 November 2023 18: 18
      Quote: BAI
      Question No. 2 – does the special operation destroy the civilian sector?


      It seems to me that this is why metallurgists in 2022, as soon as the Northern War began, raised metal prices by 2 times (all prices for building materials followed them) - they foresaw a large consumption of metal for the war, so they decided to profit from this business.


      Not certainly in that way. The metal rushed upward even before the start of the war, in December 2021 the growth began, the price peaked in the spring of 2022 and then there was a landing in June.
  12. +9
    24 November 2023 09: 53
    Russia already intends to revive

    Everything would be fine, but when I see the words “intended”, “planned”, “will”, I think that with a high percentage of probability it can be perceived as “they will cut something on this and it definitely won’t happen.” Everything that came to us was not particularly announced, and the worst things happen after the announcements. How our officials love to proudly show models and presentations that have not gone beyond these stages. But let's hope.
  13. -1
    24 November 2023 10: 36
    . Over thirty years, oligarchs and government agencies took away 14 trillion
    More than one oligarch will bring a million Tajbeks abroad. And how many did you take to all-inclusive events in Egypt and all sorts of Turkey?
    1. +1
      24 November 2023 11: 50
      More than one oligarch will bring a million Tajbeks abroad.

      In general, not at all from the point of view of the state. Since a salary (whether a migrant or a native) is income only for the migrant, and not for the state, where it falls under the category of expenses, not income (part of which will become profit). And profits are withdrawn.
      1. +2
        24 November 2023 12: 00
        In general, not at all from the point of view of the state.
        How is that? The oligarch sells gasoline, and Abdullah sells labor. Both take away the proceeds.
        1. +2
          24 November 2023 12: 37
          How's that?

          Usually. I will simplify the scheme to the level of the principles of estimated rationing and pricing. The cost of selling the said gasoline is the sum - ZP+EMM+MAT+ZPM+NR+SP. All of the above, except joint venture (estimated profit) is an expense part. In a joint venture, the owner of the means of production can develop production, thereby developing the economy. Instead, the funds go away. Profit for Abdullah (ZP or ZPM) is not a profit for production. The fact that Abdullah exports not the product of his labor, but the EQUIVALENT of his labor costs, does not in any way affect the country’s economy; your product of labor remains inside. You can rebalance the money supply by simply printing the equivalent. Although it is not even violated - since Abdullah pays for the conversion into currency for export with the cost of banking services.
          1. -1
            24 November 2023 13: 06
            Well, it doesn’t affect the country’s economy in any way
            Uh.... Ivan will spend his money in Russia, and Abdullah in the distant mountains.
            1. +1
              24 November 2023 13: 15
              Uh.... Ivan will spend his money in Russia, and Abdullah in the distant mountains.

              AND? Do you not understand what is written above?
            2. +4
              24 November 2023 13: 21
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              Uh.... Ivan will spend his money in Russia, and Abdullah in the distant mountains.


              Wise rulers solved this problem - Abdulla’s village will move somewhere near Tver or in the Moscow region to live off Putin’s benefits for children from low-income families.
        2. +2
          26 November 2023 12: 13
          “How is that? The oligarch sells gasoline, and Abdullah sells labor. Both take the proceeds away.”
          Abdullah built a “outhouse type toilet” and took the money for the work abroad. Russia only lost Abdullah’s salary, the result of his labor remained in Russia. Sechin took gasoline abroad, sold it, and hid the money there somewhere. Russia lost both gasoline and money. So who harms Russia more, Abdullah or Sechin?
  14. +1
    24 November 2023 10: 42
    All that remains is to solve the problem of labor resources, which have been sorely lacking in the country lately.


    Labor resources are so scarce that hourly wages for production line operators have increased by only 2021-10% compared to 20, despite the fact that official inflation over the past 2 years has been 22%.
    For qualified machine operators, welders and mechanics, their hourly rates were increased by a quarter, sometimes by a half. Some began to earn significantly more... for a 60-hour work week.
    What is typical: 10 years ago there were many advertisements for students to enter blue-collar professions. Now this is practically not the case. In principle, this is logical.

    The redistribution of the economy in favor of the military-industrial complex cannot be permanent; after the completion of the military-industrial complex, a reduction in the defense industry to pre-war volumes is inevitable, and this is in an optimistic scenario - Russia is gradually losing its position in the international arms market due to a decrease in export opportunities due to the military-industrial complex, restrictions on the use of imported electronics and obsolescence some types of weapons. Both Belarus and Kazakhstan have already developed/are working on localizing the production of new wheeled infantry fighting vehicles, and ours still use the deep modernization of the BTR-60 and install it on tanks, a descendant of the legendary B-2.

    Not to be unfounded: according to TASS, in 2018-2022, compared to 2013-2017, US arms sales increased by 14%, and their share in the global volume was 40%. In Russia, over the same period, sales decreased by 31%, and the share in global volume decreased from 22% to 16%. The figures for France are 7,1% and 11% respectively...
    Among the largest arms exporters - after the US, Russia and France - five countries showed a decline in their sales abroad: China - 23%, Germany - 35%, UK - 35%, Spain - 4,4% and Israel - 15%
    1. -5
      24 November 2023 11: 38
      Quote: Ivan Seversky
      Russia is gradually losing its position in the international arms market due to a decrease in export opportunities due to SVO, restrictions on the use of imported electronics and the obsolescence of some types of weapons


      But in fact, Russia is today creating a powerful position for itself in the arms markets.
      Our cheaper weapons successfully beat Western ones.
      This means that after completion of the SVO there will be a steady demand for it.

      And don’t look at today’s growth rates in US arms sales.
      These are fictitious figures reflecting the siphoning of funds from the colonies,
      to send them to Ukraine in the form of expensive tanks, etc., where they are successfully burned.
      1. +1
        24 November 2023 14: 51
        Quote from Emperor_Alive
        But in fact, Russia is today creating a powerful position for itself in the arms markets.
        Our cheaper weapons successfully beat Western ones.

        if there were no Chinese weapons, everything you wrote would have worked... it almost completely occupied the cheap segment, delivering a little worse than ours, but a third to a quarter cheaper... even whose Kalash are mostly from the barmalei? Chinese.. yes, they are worse.. but they shoot and are noticeably cheaper.. we still have an advantage in air defense systems over China.. and that’s all.. planes, guns, missiles - they are already exporting in full.. there are fewer tanks yet supply, but growth every year... in what niche are powerful positions being created today - can you tell me?
        1. -1
          24 November 2023 18: 43
          Quote: 2 level advisor

          if there were no Chinese weapons, everything you wrote would have worked... it almost completely occupied the cheap segment, delivering a little worse than ours, but a third to a quarter cheaper... even whose Kalash are mostly from the barmalei? Chinese.. yes, they are worse.. but they shoot and are noticeably cheaper.. we still have an advantage in air defense systems over China.. and that’s all.. planes, guns, missiles - they are already exporting in full.. there are fewer tanks yet supply, but growth every year... in what niche are powerful positions being created today - can you tell me?


          In the very niche where the Chinese work today, too.
          Although they have something cheaper, it has not been tested in a real war.
          And it was not compared with NATO weapons.

          But our main future buyers are the rich countries of the Arab world, Africa and Central and South America.

          All those who want to have an independent army with its own technically complex weapons that can operate without permission from Washington.
          1. 0
            25 November 2023 23: 59
            this is called wishes and hopes Victor.. and not conclusions based on logic.. but.. to each his own.. for someone living well in the virtual world.. or will you give real specific positions where we focus on China? come on.. poke me into unpleasant facts laughing
  15. -8
    24 November 2023 10: 47
    Here we need to look deeper. Weapons are needed for war. As Lenin taught, war is the redistribution of what has already been divided. And there is no need to be shy, we will take our lands from the outskirts. Apparently we will have to deal with the sprat republics and punish the Germans. Therefore, this is the growth of our potential in the future. New territories They are already working and making a strong contribution to the economy. And who said that it would be easy. It has never been easy for us.
  16. +7
    24 November 2023 10: 52
    The population in warring countries ALWAYS loses. This is an axiom.
    War always has beneficiaries. In 99% of cases, the beneficiaries of conflicts are outside the warring countries or they have extensive business/political/any other opportunities outside the warring state and nothing prevents them from leaving the warring state.
    In our case, the beneficiary of the conflict is obvious - this is the United States.
    They received transatlantic unity, weakening of competitors represented by the EU and the Russian Federation, a sharp jump in orders from the military-industrial complex, their gas and oil firmly occupied our niche, and a bunch of other little things.
    For Russia, this conflict is forced; we were forced to start it by increasing the risks of a significant deterioration in the political/economic situation in the country.
    And, of course, we also have internal beneficiaries. Redistribution of financial flows, influence of groups near the throne, etc.
    Globally, the driving force of the economy is predominantly trade. Under the sanctions regime, trade on foreign markets is extremely limited. A domestic market of 140-150 million people is very small and does not provide much reason to develop industries that cover mass consumption.
    The development of the economy is significantly influenced by the significant energy consumption of domestic industries (we are a very cold country), the fairly high level of development of people who are not ready to work 16 hours for a bowl of rice (the authorities are now successfully fighting this, bringing in millions of migrants and lowering the level of education of the population) , huge political risks for our country, in which there are no rules of the game and investing for a long time is a completely unpredictable activity.
    Thus, the war is guaranteed to be of no benefit to our economy. GDP figures may grow due to the military-industrial complex, while at the same time rapid impoverishment of the population.
    Well, by the way, capital has been and is being successfully exported from the country. Yes, it decreased compared to the “fat” years, but in the 3 quarters of 2023 it still reached $50 billion.
    Well, Ukraine is just a mess, its economy no longer exists and it is unlikely that it will ever recover, even after the end of hostilities. They simply won’t give it to her, no one needs it.
    1. +5
      24 November 2023 11: 29
      For Russia, this conflict is forced; we were forced to start it by increasing the risks of a significant deterioration in the political/economic situation in the country.

      Who forced Russia into this conflict? Nothing threatened Russia’s borders either in 2014 or in 2022. And moreover, even now no one is making demands beyond internationally recognized boundaries
      1. +1
        24 November 2023 11: 54
        Quote from Escariot
        Who forced Russia into this conflict? Nothing threatened Russia’s borders either in 2014 or in 2022. And moreover, even now no one is making demands beyond internationally recognized boundaries

        I partially agree. But the inclusion of Ukraine in NATO would create enormous risks for our country. Taking into account the very unfriendly behavior of NATO after the events of 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX, this created an unacceptable situation for Russia. Yesterday and today no complaints were made against us, but tomorrow?
        The West, having fully entered Ukraine, could take very unpleasant and painful actions for us. Not only regarding our borders, but also cutting off trade routes, gas supplies to Europe, etc.
        1. +8
          24 November 2023 14: 10
          Quote: Mishka78
          Quote from Escariot
          Who forced Russia into this conflict? Nothing threatened Russia’s borders either in 2014 or in 2022. And moreover, even now no one is making demands beyond internationally recognized boundaries

          I partially agree. But the inclusion of Ukraine in NATO would create enormous risks for our country. Taking into account the very unfriendly behavior of NATO after the events of 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX, this created an unacceptable situation for Russia. Yesterday and today no complaints were made against us, but tomorrow?
          The West, having fully entered Ukraine, could take very unpleasant and painful actions for us. Not only regarding our borders, but also cutting off trade routes, gas supplies to Europe, etc.

          And now trade routes and gas supplies to Europe are not cut off? Has NATO's attitude improved now? This is the case when the treatment turned out to be worse than the disease. Before the Northeast Military District, the European part of NATO actually neglected its defense, the army degraded. Now even the stingy Germans are starting to boost the military. NATO has expanded to 2 more countries and an entire army corps will have to be formed to confront them. Until recently, the allied Kazakhstan is slowly turning against Russia. Armenia actually fell away from the CSTO. Sanctions and military losses harm the economy, etc.
          1. +4
            24 November 2023 15: 24
            Quote from Escariot
            This is the case when the treatment turned out to be worse than the disease.

            And again, you are partially right. I upvote every comment you make.
            I'll just paraphrase it a little. Dumb and shameful treatment the implementation of the SVO caused all the factors that you write about.
            Those. these are consequences, and initially we talked about the reasons.
            If from the first day we had started to hammer away at Ukraine the way the USA hammered Yugoslavia, or like the Jews are hammering Gaza now, everything would be completely different..
            And the saddest thing is that there is no positive outcome in all this confusion. It is still unclear even how negative the “peace treaty” that our outstanding leaders of the nation have been begging from the United States for a year and a half will be for us...
            1. +10
              24 November 2023 16: 45
              Quote: Mishka78
              Quote from Escariot
              This is the case when the treatment turned out to be worse than the disease.

              And again, you are partially right. I upvote every comment you make.
              I'll just paraphrase it a little. Dumb and shameful treatment the implementation of the SVO caused all the factors that you write about.
              Those. these are consequences, and initially we talked about the reasons.
              If from the first day we had started to hammer away at Ukraine the way the USA hammered Yugoslavia, or like the Jews are hammering Gaza now, everything would be completely different..
              And the saddest thing is that there is no positive outcome in all this confusion. It is still unclear even how negative the “peace treaty” that our outstanding leaders of the nation have been begging from the United States for a year and a half will be for us...

              You probably don’t remember how the United States rolled away Yugoslavia. There were several months of bombing without any ground forces invading. Is VKS capable of doing the same thing? In Iraq, UN troops carried out one and a half thousand sorties per day, are the Aerospace Forces capable of this? Israel is hammering Gaza, which is an order of magnitude smaller, which has neither air force nor air defense nor supplies from other countries.
              So this is not a matter of the desire of the leaders, but of the ability of the armed forces and the economy.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. The comment was deleted.
      2. -3
        24 November 2023 11: 56
        Who forced Russia into this conflict? Nothing threatened Russia’s borders either in 2014 or in 2022.

        Well, don't be ridiculous. The USA, for example, borders two countries. And she fought with dozens of others thousands of kilometers from her borders
      3. -5
        24 November 2023 18: 59
        Quote from Escariot

        Who forced Russia into this conflict? Nothing threatened Russia’s borders either in 2014 or in 2022. And moreover, even now no one is making demands beyond internationally recognized boundaries


        You can immediately see how many sissies there are here...
        ____________
        Of course, I could explain it a hundred times, but...
        "...and do not cast your pearls before swine..." (Matthew 7:6)
      4. +3
        24 November 2023 20: 12
        By your logic, then South Ossetia did not need to be protected in 2008? And don’t bring peacekeepers into Armenia. Or are our borders being threatened there?
        In mid-June 2013, a bill was registered in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine to denounce the agreement on the basing of the Russian fleet on the territory of the Crimean Peninsula. And even then he was supported by 152 deputies out of 400. But this was still the Yanukovych government loyal to Russia.
        Or do you think that the people who removed the legitimate president in February 2014 would nobly decide not to touch the fleet of an enemy country? Or do you consider the Russian-speaking population of Donbass and Crimea to be separatists? And the burning in Odessa is a domestic gas explosion? Sit further there in your home, hatakrayniks.
        1. +3
          24 November 2023 20: 33
          Quote: dementor873
          By your logic, then South Ossetia did not need to be protected in 2008? And don’t bring peacekeepers into Armenia. Or are our borders being threatened there?
          In mid-June 2013, a bill was registered in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine to denounce the agreement on the basing of the Russian fleet on the territory of the Crimean Peninsula. And even then he was supported by 152 deputies out of 400. But this was still the Yanukovych government loyal to Russia.
          Or do you think that the people who removed the legitimate president in February 2014 would nobly decide not to touch the fleet of an enemy country? Or do you consider the Russian-speaking population of Donbass and Crimea to be separatists? And the burning in Odessa is a domestic gas explosion? Sit further there in your home, hatakrayniks.

          The Russian Federation rented a fleet base in Sevastopol. Of course, the tenant could terminate the contract, but how many bases did our fleet lose in the 90s? It is true that Sevastopol is indeed the most convenient bay, but now part of the Black Sea Fleet has been withdrawn from this convenient bay, so to speak, to avoid it.
          Russia has a program for the repatriation of compatriots. For 300 billion dollars it was possible to resettle the entire Russian-speaking population to Russia and create heaven on earth for them, just like improving the lives of its citizens, but this is not our way. Now tens and hundreds of thousands of these Russian-speaking people are dying on both sides of the front, but you don’t feel sorry for them at all. Donbass is destroyed and depopulated, Russia has lost a lot of dough, the population is gradually being replaced, the army is stuck in a bloody meat grinder in which its best forces are dying. Of course, I understand that Ukraine is even worse, but this in no way improves Russia’s situation.
  17. +4
    24 November 2023 12: 10
    Quote from Emperor_Alive
    Our cheaper weapons successfully beat Western ones.

    Please excuse me, but I need to watch less TV!
    1. -8
      24 November 2023 12: 14
      Quote: Vladimir80
      Quote from Emperor_Alive
      Our cheaper weapons successfully beat Western ones.

      Please excuse me, but I need to watch less TV!

      Please give examples of when it “doesn’t hit.” Specific, without your usual chatter, please. We're waiting, sir. Yes
      1. +2
        25 November 2023 19: 39
        Panzer 2000 covers any of our artillery in all respects except the price per piece
        Western naval drones and missile attacks, in fact, drove our fleet out of Crimea, and yes, why do we need advanced weapons, of which there were 70%, we can do it on T54 with D-1
  18. 0
    24 November 2023 12: 24
    Quote from Emperor_Alive

    And don’t look at today’s growth rates in US arms sales.
    These are fictitious figures reflecting the siphoning of funds from the colonies,
    to send them to Ukraine in the form of expensive tanks, etc., where they are successfully burned.


    Supplies to Ukraine are not considered arms exports because they are not commercial in nature, see for yourself:
    -USA: 2017-2021: 39%; 2018-2022: 40%
    -Russia: 2017-2021: 19%, 2018-2022: 16%



    But in fact, Russia is today creating a powerful position for itself in the arms markets.
    Our cheaper weapons successfully beat Western ones.


    Russian tanks have performed well in terms of price/quality ratio, but their exports on a general scale are not very significant.

    According to data for 2017-2021. 48% of Russian exports are combat aircraft and 16% aircraft engines. The problem is that our aviation was unable to ensure air supremacy, despite 11-fold numerical superiority at the beginning of the Northern Military District and 17-fold superiority at the beginning of 2023 (according to Military Balance)

    Export table and figures from here: https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/2022-03/fs_2203_at_2021.pdf
    1. -1
      24 November 2023 19: 04
      Quote: Ivan Seversky

      Supplies to Ukraine are not considered arms exports because they are not commercial in nature, see for yourself:
      -USA: 2017-2021: 39%; 2018-2022: 40%
      -Russia: 2017-2021: 19%, 2018-2022: 16%


      But supplies of new weapons to the EU, in exchange for old ones given to Ukraine, are counted as exports.
      But in reality, this is transferring from one pocket to another,
      - fictitious figures for the growth of exports to their own colonies.
    2. -1
      24 November 2023 19: 07
      Quote: Ivan Seversky
      Russian tanks have performed well in terms of price/quality ratio, but their exports on a general scale are not very significant.

      According to data for 2017-2021. 48% of Russian exports are combat aircraft and 16% aircraft engines. The problem is that our aviation was unable to ensure air supremacy, despite 11-fold numerical superiority at the beginning of the Northern Military District and 17-fold superiority at the beginning of 2023 (according to Military Balance)


      All Russian weapons performed well. Certain types are excellent.

      No army in the world has yet been able to ensure complete air supremacy on the territory of a large country in a modern war.

      However, our aviation today ensured dominance in the front-line zone.
      Despite significant supplies of Western air defense systems.

      At the same time, the Ukrainian Reich aviation is rapidly declining.
      1. +3
        24 November 2023 20: 20
        Quote from Emperor_Alive
        Quote: Ivan Seversky
        Russian tanks have performed well in terms of price/quality ratio, but their exports on a general scale are not very significant.

        According to data for 2017-2021. 48% of Russian exports are combat aircraft and 16% aircraft engines. The problem is that our aviation was unable to ensure air supremacy, despite 11-fold numerical superiority at the beginning of the Northern Military District and 17-fold superiority at the beginning of 2023 (according to Military Balance)


        All Russian weapons performed well. Certain types are excellent.

        No army in the world has yet been able to ensure complete air supremacy on the territory of a large country in a modern war.

        However, our aviation today ensured dominance in the front-line zone.
        Despite significant supplies of Western air defense systems.

        At the same time, the Ukrainian Reich aviation is rapidly declining.

        The international coalition was able to multiply Iraq's fairly modern air defense by zero. And do you know how? In 3 days they made 4700 sorties and launched 700 cruise missiles. Moreover, this is specifically for suppressing air defense. Then they looked at it from satellites and decided that it was complete nonsense and needed to be redone, and they bombed Iraq for another month. Does VSK have a similar outfit of forces? But the NATO Air Force has it. So there is no need to say that it is supposedly impossible to suppress the air defense of a large country only using the example of our Aerospace Forces. It’s just that the Aerospace Forces turned out to be numerically, technologically and doctrinally unprepared for such an operation. That's the result.
        1. -5
          24 November 2023 22: 35
          Quote from Escariot
          The international coalition was able to multiply Iraq's fairly modern air defense by zero.

          This is a lie and Western propaganda.
          Iraq did not have a modern (at that time) layered air defense system.

          And of course, he did not have the Western information support that Ukraine received.
          The Iraqi army was forced to keep its radars on at all times, which were quickly hit by anti-radar missiles.

          Ukraine's air defense today is supported by Western AWACS and satellite systems.

          But nevertheless, our air forces managed to extinguish air defense in the front-line zone,
          so much so that we have no interference with the operation of gliding bombs.
          ___________
          So our weapons and videoconferencing perform excellently.
          There has never been a conflict like this in the world, where the entire complex of modern ground weapons (except for strategic forces) was tested.
          1. +1
            25 November 2023 04: 05
            Quote from Emperor_Alive
            Quote from Escariot
            The international coalition was able to multiply Iraq's fairly modern air defense by zero.

            This is a lie and Western propaganda.
            Iraq did not have a modern (at that time) layered air defense system.

            And of course, he did not have the Western information support that Ukraine received.
            The Iraqi army was forced to keep its radars on at all times, which were quickly hit by anti-radar missiles.

            Ukraine's air defense today is supported by Western AWACS and satellite systems.

            But nevertheless, our air forces managed to extinguish air defense in the front-line zone,
            so much so that we have no interference with the operation of gliding bombs.
            ___________
            So our weapons and videoconferencing perform excellently.
            There has never been a conflict like this in the world, where the entire complex of modern ground weapons (except for strategic forces) was tested.

            AWACS are good, but they are technically unable to monitor the situation in the area of ​​Kharkov and Slavyansk, which means that the Ukrainian air defense there is face to face with the Aerospace Forces. And what, the VKS is bombing the rear with free-falling bombs? No. They are not able to use air defense radars to destroy air defense radars and capture the sky.
            1. -1
              26 November 2023 01: 36
              Quote from Escariot
              AWACS are good, but they are technically unable to monitor the situation in the area of ​​Kharkov and Slavyansk, which means that the Ukrainian air defense there is face to face with the Aerospace Forces. And what, the VKS is bombing the rear with free-falling bombs? No. They are not able to use air defense radars to destroy air defense radars and capture the sky.


              You “forgot” the NATO satellite constellation, which reports in advance on takeoffs from each of our airfields in the border zone.

              You “forgot” about the constant supply of new air defense systems to Ukraine to replace the destroyed ones.

              These deliveries are carried out secretly. Radars and launchers arrive secretly in the areas of the intended routes of our aerospace forces, taking advantage of the fact that Russia avoids attacks on Ukrainian cities and civilian transport, except for precisely identified military targets.

              Iraq, of course, had nothing like this. Nobody compensated them for the secretly destroyed air defense systems. America erased their cities into dust, destroyed everything that moved, and carried out genocide of the population. It is not surprising that their air defense was very quickly destroyed.

              In fact, today NATO is waging war against Russia through the hands of Ukrainian slaves.

              And Russia is again fulfilling the mission of fighting fascism.
              And fortunately, it is not like America.

              So you are trying in vain to distort the facts.
              Your attempt to extol US achievements in Iraq has failed.
              There were no special technical advances that were beyond our reach.


              In today's situation, our army is doing the right thing by not risking its aircraft.
              We have excellent aerial bombs with UMPC. And even cassette ones.
              Russia has secured complete control over the sky in the front-line zone.
              Aircraft of the Ukrainian Armed Forces that are trying to enter there quickly disappear.

              And for long strikes we have a bunch of drones and missile weapons.



              In general, today all our weapons perform well.
              Russia is defeating NATO in Ukraine today.

              This means we have excellent opportunities to take away its arms markets from the United States in the future.
              ____________
              You work poorly for the Ukrainian Reich. You need to be smarter.
              If you are sent off the couch near Avdeevka for poor work, remember: 149.200 and Volga
              1. -1
                26 November 2023 09: 23
                Quote from Emperor_Alive
                Quote from Escariot
                AWACS are good, but they are technically unable to monitor the situation in the area of ​​Kharkov and Slavyansk, which means that the Ukrainian air defense there is face to face with the Aerospace Forces. And what, the VKS is bombing the rear with free-falling bombs? No. They are not able to use air defense radars to destroy air defense radars and capture the sky.


                You “forgot” the NATO satellite constellation, which reports in advance on takeoffs from each of our airfields in the border zone.

                You “forgot” about the constant supply of new air defense systems to Ukraine to replace the destroyed ones.

                These deliveries are carried out secretly. Radars and launchers arrive secretly in the areas of the intended routes of our aerospace forces, taking advantage of the fact that Russia avoids attacks on Ukrainian cities and civilian transport, except for precisely identified military targets.

                Iraq, of course, had nothing like this. Nobody compensated them for the secretly destroyed air defense systems. America erased their cities into dust, destroyed everything that moved, and carried out genocide of the population. It is not surprising that their air defense was very quickly destroyed.

                In fact, today NATO is waging war against Russia through the hands of Ukrainian slaves.

                And Russia is again fulfilling the mission of fighting fascism.
                And fortunately, it is not like America.

                So you are trying in vain to distort the facts.
                Your attempt to extol US achievements in Iraq has failed.
                There were no special technical advances that were beyond our reach.


                In today's situation, our army is doing the right thing by not risking its aircraft.
                We have excellent aerial bombs with UMPC. And even cassette ones.
                Russia has secured complete control over the sky in the front-line zone.
                Aircraft of the Ukrainian Armed Forces that are trying to enter there quickly disappear.

                And for long strikes we have a bunch of drones and missile weapons.



                In general, today all our weapons perform well.
                Russia is defeating NATO in Ukraine today.

                This means we have excellent opportunities to take away its arms markets from the United States in the future.
                ____________
                You work poorly for the Ukrainian Reich. You need to be smarter.
                If you are sent off the couch near Avdeevka for poor work, remember: 149.200 and Volga

                You put the cart before the horse.
                It was the inability of the Aerospace Forces to make 1500 sorties per day that allowed the Ukrainian air defense to survive in the first month of the Northern Military District and receive some reinforcements from the West, as well as establish interaction with their intelligence. If the air defense had been destroyed, then there would have been no supplies from NATO.
                The fact that civilian infrastructure in the rear is not subject to massive attacks is an attempt to pass off need as virtue. The Aerospace Forces do not have the ability to attack bridges and power plants in the rear with free-falling bombs. Where they can reach, they attack. Popasnaya, Ugledar, Bakhmut will not let you lie. Cities were completely destroyed.
                Our army, of course, does not risk aircraft, but it does risk the lives of infantry. The task of aviation is to isolate the battlefield from reinforcements. And this task was failed. As a result, while the infantry, washing itself with blood, is storming one defensive line, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are building another and bringing up reinforcements. In Iraq, despite the losses, UN aviation isolated the battlefield, the Republican Guard divisions were destroyed piece by piece, and as a result, a couple of hundred thousand soldiers were operationally surrounded in Kuwait. The ground part of the operation took place in a week, and the end of the NWO for almost 2 years is not expected. And the reason for this is the inability of the Aerospace Forces to isolate the battlefield due to air defense counteraction.
                1. 0
                  26 November 2023 10: 24
                  Quote from Escariot
                  You put the cart before the horse.
                  It was the inability of the Aerospace Forces to make 1500 sorties per day that allowed the Ukrainian air defense to survive in the first month of the Northern Military District and receive some reinforcements from the West, as well as establish interaction with their intelligence. If the air defense had been destroyed, then there would have been no supplies from NATO.


                  Again you lie and try to get out.
                  I have already answered this question.

                  Western assistance began to arrive before the start of the Northern Military District in the form of emergency arms supplies at the end of 2021.
                  We remember the videos of Boeings loaded with Javelins and Stingers.
                  Western help has always come from NATO intelligence.

                  And immediately, in the first minutes of the Northern Military District, specific NATO assistance began to arrive in the form of target designations for air defense from Western AWACS and satellites transmitted over the military Internet network, which the West created for Ukraine in advance of preparing for war.

                  This allowed the Ukrainian Armed Forces to keep the remaining air defense radars off over most of the territory and turn them on only immediately before the strike.

                  In such a situation, not a single country in the world could destroy the enemy’s fully echeloned air defense without huge losses of its aircraft.

                  And no need to la-la!


                  Quote from Escariot

                  The fact that civilian infrastructure in the rear is not subject to massive attacks is an attempt to pass off need as virtue. The Aerospace Forces do not have the ability to attack bridges and power plants in the rear with free-falling bombs. Where they can reach, they attack. Popasnaya, Ugledar, Bakhmut will not let you lie. Cities were completely destroyed.


                  Russia stormed Mariupol carefully, preserving the population as much as possible.
                  Popasnaya, Ugledar, Bakhmut were destroyed almost completely after the overwhelming majority of the population, which our country protects, unlike your Western patrons, left them. The same will happen with Avdeevka.

                  We will look at what capabilities Russia has to destroy power plants this winter.
                  However, last winter the Ukrainian energy system suffered considerable damage.

                  And in the first year of the war, Russia purposefully abandoned bridges, railway tracks, incl. electrified, as corridors for the exodus of the population from Ukraine.
                  I'm afraid I'll be wrong in the numbers, but somewhere up to 3 million conscripts managed to escape from the grave-killers in the EU. And about 2 million - to Russia.

                  As time has shown, this was a wise policy. Today the Armed Forces of Ukraine have an acute shortage of personnel.

                  Quote from Escariot
                  Our army, of course, does not risk aircraft, but it does risk the lives of infantry.


                  Your ukroarmiya does not save anything and hopes only for the west.
                  Therefore, it has huge losses of both troops and infantry.

                  The Russian Army protects both infantry and aircraft.

                  As time has shown, regarding the preservation of the Aerospace Forces in the first year of the war
                  We also had a wise policy.
                  We are observers; in the first year we did not yet understand it.

                  Today we see that at that time we had some new types of weapons on the way that could dramatically change the balance of power.

                  Now, as we see, Ukrainian aviation is rapidly declining. And NATO cannot help yet. And the Aerospace Forces have firmly conquered the front-line zone.


                  Quote from Escariot
                  The task of aviation is to isolate the battlefield from reinforcements. And this task was failed. As a result, while the infantry, washing itself with blood, is storming one defensive line, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are building another and bringing up reinforcements.


                  Your task has failed.

                  You tried in vain to prove that the NATO army in Iraq showed what the Russian Aerospace Forces are not capable of.

                  Today Russia is gradually strengthening its position in Ukraine.
                  The capitulation of Ukroreich and the military-political defeat of NATO are planned.
                  ______________
                  I hope you personally remember the frequency 149.200 and the call sign “Volga”?
                  1. -3
                    26 November 2023 11: 41
                    Quote from Emperor_Alive
                    Quote from Escariot
                    You put the cart before the horse.
                    It was the inability of the Aerospace Forces to make 1500 sorties per day that allowed the Ukrainian air defense to survive in the first month of the Northern Military District and receive some reinforcements from the West, as well as establish interaction with their intelligence. If the air defense had been destroyed, then there would have been no supplies from NATO.


                    Again you lie and try to get out.
                    I have already answered this question.

                    Western assistance began to arrive before the start of the Northern Military District in the form of emergency arms supplies at the end of 2021.
                    We remember the videos of Boeings loaded with Javelins and Stingers.
                    Western help has always come from NATO intelligence.

                    And immediately, in the first minutes of the Northern Military District, specific NATO assistance began to arrive in the form of target designations for air defense from Western AWACS and satellites transmitted over the military Internet network, which the West created for Ukraine in advance of preparing for war.

                    This allowed the Ukrainian Armed Forces to keep the remaining air defense radars off over most of the territory and turn them on only immediately before the strike.

                    In such a situation, not a single country in the world could destroy the enemy’s fully echeloned air defense without huge losses of its aircraft.

                    And no need to la-la!


                    Quote from Escariot

                    The fact that civilian infrastructure in the rear is not subject to massive attacks is an attempt to pass off need as virtue. The Aerospace Forces do not have the ability to attack bridges and power plants in the rear with free-falling bombs. Where they can reach, they attack. Popasnaya, Ugledar, Bakhmut will not let you lie. Cities were completely destroyed.


                    Russia stormed Mariupol carefully, preserving the population as much as possible.
                    Popasnaya, Ugledar, Bakhmut were destroyed almost completely after the overwhelming majority of the population, which our country protects, unlike your Western patrons, left them. The same will happen with Avdeevka.

                    We will look at what capabilities Russia has to destroy power plants this winter.
                    However, last winter the Ukrainian energy system suffered considerable damage.

                    And in the first year of the war, Russia purposefully abandoned bridges, railway tracks, incl. electrified, as corridors for the exodus of the population from Ukraine.
                    I'm afraid I'll be wrong in the numbers, but somewhere up to 3 million conscripts managed to escape from the grave-killers in the EU. And about 2 million - to Russia.

                    As time has shown, this was a wise policy. Today the Armed Forces of Ukraine have an acute shortage of personnel.

                    Quote from Escariot
                    Our army, of course, does not risk aircraft, but it does risk the lives of infantry.


                    Your ukroarmiya does not save anything and hopes only for the west.
                    Therefore, it has huge losses of both troops and infantry.

                    The Russian Army protects both infantry and aircraft.

                    As time has shown, regarding the preservation of the Aerospace Forces in the first year of the war
                    We also had a wise policy.
                    We are observers; in the first year we did not yet understand it.

                    Today we see that at that time we had some new types of weapons on the way that could dramatically change the balance of power.

                    Now, as we see, Ukrainian aviation is rapidly declining. And NATO cannot help yet. And the Aerospace Forces have firmly conquered the front-line zone.


                    Quote from Escariot
                    The task of aviation is to isolate the battlefield from reinforcements. And this task was failed. As a result, while the infantry, washing itself with blood, is storming one defensive line, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are building another and bringing up reinforcements.


                    Your task has failed.

                    You tried in vain to prove that the NATO army in Iraq showed what the Russian Aerospace Forces are not capable of.

                    Today Russia is gradually strengthening its position in Ukraine.
                    The capitulation of Ukroreich and the military-political defeat of NATO are planned.
                    ______________
                    I hope you personally remember the frequency 149.200 and the call sign “Volga”?

                    What do Javelins and Stringers have to do with it if we are talking about air defense? No, well, of course you can shoot down a plane with a stinger, but to do this it must fly low. And it flies low because the air defense as a structure has not been destroyed. Saddam also had MANPADS, but they were of little help to his army.
                    Western AWACS do not see what is happening in the East of Ukraine, and satellites cannot quickly monitor aircraft. So they are monitored from the ground using air defense radars. And these radars work 24/7.
                    Last winter there was a large-scale attempt to destroy the energy sector, but it failed. It’s the same with bridges and tunnels: they tried to destroy them (for example, the bridge in Zatoka has already been attacked 5-6 times), but again unsuccessfully.
                    Is someone there wisely protecting the infantry? Prigozhin spoke quite directly about the losses in this very infantry.
                    The Desert Storm lasted a week, and total coalition casualties amounted to several hundred people, all due to air supremacy.
                    1. 0
                      26 November 2023 12: 44
                      Quote from Escariot
                      What do Javelins and Stringers have to do with it if we are talking about air defense?

                      And given that you stated:
                      “If the air defense had been destroyed, then there would have been no supplies from NATO.”

                      But this is nonsense, of course. The West harnessed itself even before the start of the Northern Military District.
                      NATO supplies would have continued in any case.

                      So there was no point in Russia ruining its aviation for the sake of trying to destroy air defense, which the West will compensate for again and again.

                      Quote from Escariot
                      Western AWACS do not see what is happening in the East of Ukraine, and satellites cannot quickly monitor aircraft.


                      I have already responded to this remark, and you had nothing to object to.
                      Western satellites see takeoff from any front-line airfield in Russia.
                      Air defense can be delivered secretly to any point along the flight route of our aerospace forces and receive target designation from NATO.

                      Such a situation did not exist in Iraq and could not exist.

                      So in this case, our videoconferencing systems show their best side.

                      Quote from Escariot
                      So they are monitored from the ground using air defense radars. And these radars work 24/7


                      No! Wrong. They would have been destroyed by now.
                      We have drones and long-range anti-radar missiles.

                      Radars deep in the territory of Ukraine are activated according to the target designation of AWACS only to destroy a specific target that has entered the affected area.

                      And the sky above the front-line zone belongs to us today.
                      Ukroreich does not risk dragging air defense close to the front line.

                      Quote from Escariot
                      Last winter there was a large-scale attempt to destroy the energy sector, but it failed.


                      Nonsense. Last winter, Ukraine's energy sector suffered great damage and has not recovered to this day.

                      But don't get distracted from the topic.


                      Quote from Escariot
                      The Desert Storm lasted a week, and total coalition casualties amounted to several hundred people, all due to air supremacy.


                      As has already been shown, NATO in Iraq did not have an enemy capable of providing target designations to its air defense systems from AWACS and the satellite system via satellite Internet.

                      Russia is successfully opposing the Ukrainian Armed Forces today, which NATO is unsuccessfully trying to support by all means available to them.

                      And at the same time, Russia is not perpetrating genocide in Ukraine, unlike the Western coalition in Iraq. We never had the goal of destroying all civilian transport in Ukraine and demolishing all its cities with carpet bombing.

                      So there is no need to lie and get out.

                      Russia is waging a successful war today, showing the advantages of its weapons over expensive NATO ones.

                      This means that after the military-political defeat of NATO in Ukraine, a moment of economic defeat will come when the United States will lose a significant part of its arms markets.
  19. +4
    24 November 2023 12: 33
    In general, the author tried to say as gently as possible that war is evil, and that one day in the future, perhaps, some processes launched as a result of the war will bear fruit.

    Often, when telling people about economics, I say, “Let’s simplify,” so, let’s simplify to understand the whole forest of complex modern mechanisms.

    Let’s imagine that we don’t have countries, but yards, and we’ll also take money out of the formula since it often creates fog, and since most people don’t understand that a higher salary does not necessarily mean a better life (inflation).

    And here is your yard for 30 souls, has a garden with vegetables and a well with the best water in the village, and you have to exchange part of this product for, say, meat and milk with other yards. And suddenly you have a terrible bloody quarrel with the neighboring yard. You gather part of your household for battle, and send the other part into the forest to cut branches in order to make spears and arrows. Naturally, there are fewer workers in the garden. And here the author claims that spears and arrows are only the final product, here it is necessary to equip people with axes, baskets, boots and carts, and the economy supposedly benefits from this - No! There are still fewer workers in the garden and well. And the author also claims that soldiers who go to the front line will receive increased rations, and the economy benefits from this - No! The most efficient people went to war and there were fewer workers. In addition, this way you produce less, you exchange less meat and milk, and besides, some of the neighbors refused to exchange your water and decided to take it from other wells. And the author can only hope that the production of spears and arrows will help set the tone and leap for the future; it will be possible to kill whales with spears for meat and oil, and use arrows to kill poultry. Perhaps, but this is only after the war. hi
    1. +3
      24 November 2023 16: 22
      This is to simplify it completely. But if we assume that instead of growing their own product, they thought it was possible to get loans and buy from others, and now they are forced to make and grow their own, and also sell to neighbors, then the picture will become somewhat different. That the war made it possible to identify and drive out parasites who, without creating anything, drank the blood of the people, to change managers, since the weak in spirit, in other words, the cowardly ones, fled on their own, so - depending on how you simplify it...
  20. +3
    24 November 2023 12: 42
    The article is extremely controversial and contradictory in every paragraph. Which in general is not surprising. The author has set himself an extremely difficult task - to prove that black is white, and white is black. request
  21. +3
    24 November 2023 15: 03
    The military-industrial complex can stimulate the economy - the example of the United States in the first half of the 40s. The peculiarity of the Russian military-industrial complex is that it is truly domestic. But there is a limitation: he must release something that fights effectively. Not for storage and not for slaughter on the battlefield. Otherwise we'll choke. And the author is right in the presence of a multiplier effect. So if we make 100 effective T-90MS, the economy will cope. There really is a shortage of personnel, but this is already the case in all industries. Unemployment of 3% in reality means a shortage of personnel. Only 5-6% reflects the balance.
  22. +8
    24 November 2023 15: 12
    "What's happening to the population?
    - for 9 months of this year, for some reason, getting richer Russians collected a record number of microloans (at 292% per annum, by the way) for 348 billion rubles - 18% more than in 2022
    - at the same time, the general level of debt (together with mortgages, long-term loans, etc.) also broke records - since the beginning of the year, the population’s debts to banks have increased by 3.3 trillion rubles to 32 trillion (to understand the scale, the revenues of the entire state budget for 2023 are 26 trillion)
    - at the same time, the number of malicious defaulters in housing and communal services increased to 7.9 million people with a total debt of 900 billion rubles
    - the situation with overdue loans is not much better - in the first half of the year their number doubled, to 17 million
    - 45% of Russians no longer have enough salary to live on (although previously there were only 25%), and 47% basically spend all their money exclusively on food
    In a "growing and developing" economy, people are forced to go into debt to make ends meet. The top stories about “GDP growth” somehow don’t stop him from getting into the MFO’s credit loop at absolutely outrageous interest rates.
    The reason is simple - in a really growing economy, when there is development, and not an artificial inflation of indicators due to the pumping of government money into the military-industrial complex sector, the incomes of citizens increase. In our case, they rise only for a small circle of people who are in one way or another connected with “defense” production, while prices rise for everyone “to a level above the harmless,” as the Central Bank called galloping inflation.
    In prosperous Russia, 45% of workers do not have enough wages even for basic needs
    You can wave around the figures of unemployment and the supposed budget surplus as much as you like - it doesn’t change the essence of the matter. There is no way to pass off the prosperity of the defense industry as the growth of the entire economy, much less the well-being of the population. But microcredit stalls across the country are clearly very happy - the growth rates there are worse than even in the domestic military-industrial complex."©
    1. 0
      1 December 2023 11: 56
      During war it is difficult to talk about prosperity. Rather, it’s about the fact that the standard of living is not falling, as they really dreamed of in the West. By the way, they don’t have ice there at all, the eurozone’s GDP in the 3rd quarter of 2023 is in recession...
  23. -6
    24 November 2023 15: 26
    I hasten to agree with all the author’s theses. The essence of things is reflected correctly!
  24. -1
    24 November 2023 16: 15
    The war must be ended on time, then the dispersed military-industrial complex will make it possible to earn money on exports. The same applies to airplanes and helicopters. It’s good to make good money by pushing those who couldn’t win the war with their tanks out of the market.
  25. 0
    24 November 2023 17: 47
    It’s just that instead of yachts, offshores and villas there are tanks and so on. So there's probably no difference. I think there is more to come
  26. +2
    24 November 2023 18: 48
    This is where that added value appears, the absence of which “Profile” complains. Yes, the tank can do nothing except maul nationalists. But the money paid for it flows into the economy, launching many related production processes and increasing the purchasing power of the population

    No, not by increasing... By increasing the amount of money among the population, yes. The quantity of goods remains the same, and prices will inevitably rise accordingly. And yet, yes, printing money for military needs will boost the military industry, but in general everyone will become a little poorer simply because the price of money will fall over time.
    Is there an alternative to this? She probably doesn't exist.
    Is this critical? There is probably still a margin of safety in the financial system that will allow this to be done relatively painlessly for several years.
  27. +4
    24 November 2023 19: 35
    The military-industrial complex makes a profit only if its products are exported.
    If the state bought the tank, there is no profit.
    If the tank was exported,
    there is profit.
    1. 0
      1 December 2023 12: 13
      This is wrong. If the state ordered a tank, then it ordered: metal, electricity, rubber and plastics, electronics, optics, oils and lubricants, and the final assembly of the product. All industries received orders for their products, earned money, paid VAT and NP, salaries, etc. The criterion for effectiveness is the compliance of the combat qualities of the equipment on the battlefield and its cost to the customer. In other words, if a tank costs 200 million and it fights effectively, the money invested by the government is justified. But if it breaks down in the first battle, or stands like an airplane, then the state is in ruins. An example of a state failure is Project 20386 - billions have been spent, and industry has built something, but there is no finished product, there is nothing to fight with. But the Su-35 is the opposite example. And the industry has started working, and the product is there and is fighting effectively. These are the basics of military economics.
  28. +1
    24 November 2023 21: 19
    Let us repeat once again that considering a special operation as an engine of progress and considering this to be a benefit for the economy is blasphemous. But it is at least premature to consider it a factor in the gradual impoverishment and degradation of the state.
    One can somehow agree with these conclusions, but there is a very important caveat: from a socio-economic point of view, a sharp increase in the output of military-industrial complex products for domestic needs is self-criticism (for reference: about 40% of the 2024 budget is “military” money).. .
  29. -3
    24 November 2023 21: 54
    The goal of any war, whatever you call it, drang nach osten, crusade, is the seizure and retention of territory, the introduction of an administration and a tax system. Those. creating sources of income for the state budget, which are directed towards the development of the ethnic group to which the state belongs.
    1. 0
      26 November 2023 22: 38
      The goal of any war, whatever you call it, drang nach osten, crusade, is the seizure and retention of territory, the introduction of an administration and a tax system.


      Not always.
      For example, as a result of the Chechen war, we received Chechnya as part of the Russian Federation.
      They received and held territory, that’s true.
      Only the administration there has its own, living not according to all-Russian laws, but according to its own concepts.
      We do not receive taxes from there, but instead pump federal subsidies there.
  30. +3
    24 November 2023 22: 18
    Quote: Last centurion
    It’s just that instead of yachts, offshores and villas there are tanks and so on. So there's probably no difference. I think there is more to come


    Not instead, but together.
    "Vodka has gone up in price, son.
    - Dad, are you going to drink less now?
    “No, son, you will eat less now.”
  31. +10
    25 November 2023 01: 33
    “The oligarchs withdrew funds”... Ha-ha-ha... All these oligarchs - the Rotenberg brothers, Kovalchuk, Timchenko, Chemezov, Yakunin, Shamalov and so on, became oligarchs, thanks to my friend - Putin. Stupid, ridiculous, and ridiculous argument.

    “NWO is the engine of progress”, “Russia intends to revive entire industries” - this is brutal. What previously prevented the revival of, for example, microelectronics? There was no money? When was it possible to buy lithographs and invest in your developments? It is late now. Declarations of intent only. So that people can continue to be fed with promises.
    The NWO, like the First World War and then the revolution, will be a disaster for us in the long term. Women have not given birth and are not giving birth, the population decline is 600 thousand people in 2022, in 2023 in six months 272 thousand, due to sanctions many industries will die (and not be revived).

    The author of the article in Profile is right that the Army does not contribute anything to the economy - it devours people and money. Without end. Devours talented, brave, passionate people.
  32. -4
    25 November 2023 04: 55
    The army and navy have at all times performed the function of protecting foreign trade, and therefore have a positive impact on the country’s economy.
  33. -1
    25 November 2023 10: 59
    The state is spent on the production of, for example, tanks and howitzers, but they do not produce added value. That is, they do not give the owner the opportunity to earn money. Even buying a personal car is much more effective for the economy - the owner can earn extra money by doing transportation. But a tank can only shoot and crush the enemy with its tracks.

    Well, besides the fact that Vladislav Grinkevich, let’s say, is somewhat disingenuous, the tank is completely destroying the economy of its competitors.
  34. 0
    25 November 2023 13: 12
    It’s strange to talk about the economy here.
    It’s just that the money that was stored in American training devices was put into the military-industrial complex, that is, into the production part of the economy. And from here there is growth in almost all industries.
    Before this, we were terribly afraid to invest in the country’s economy, under the pretext of accelerating inflation
    1. +2
      25 November 2023 19: 27
      Before this, we were terribly afraid to invest in the country’s economy, under the pretext of accelerating inflation

      This is an erroneous statement. It’s just that after the opening of cross-border trade, it was more profitable for business structures to buy something abroad. And the quality is higher, and faster, and there is no need to spend money on innovation.
  35. +4
    25 November 2023 17: 19
    “Tanks don’t make money” is a very dubious statement by the author.
    In 1993, only 3 tanks “earned” the whole of Russia for Yeltsin, his family and oligarchs.
  36. +5
    25 November 2023 19: 22
    I would like the readers of the article to think about two conditional examples: Example one: they produced 100 good cars worth 1 billion rubles, but did not sell them, but drowned them in the sea. Example two: They produced 3 tanks worth 1 billion rubles and gave them to the military, but the tanks were knocked out in the very first days and they completely burned down without bringing any benefit. What is the benefit to the economy from all this production? No. They mined ore and smelted steel in vain, paid salaries in vain, etc. And if there is no benefit to the economy, then how can this move it forward? And it doesn’t move, no matter what they say about it. They also write that in the process of producing military equipment we received space, microelectronics, and the Internet. However, the benefits for people and profits from these things are generated not in the military, but in the civilian sphere. In addition, inventions in this direction could be made for the civilian sphere, and not necessarily for the military.
  37. +3
    26 November 2023 01: 00
    There are 3 million of all kinds of security forces in the country. In terms of the number of special services, police and other security forces, Russia is many times ahead of the countries of Europe, North and South America. Reducing the security forces by half will not change anything, so there will be one and a half million workers in the market.
    1. -1
      26 November 2023 21: 34
      Quote: Civil
      They work in garages where there are now huge queues for them.

      If you’re talking about those rages in garage cooperatives, what kind of queues there are and you can’t find people there, cars are now parked in yards, and the one who does something alone in the garage is called a lone craftsman who takes on the simplest jobs
  38. 0
    26 November 2023 22: 29
    Combat has always been the engine of progress.


    It is not true.
    Most wars caused degradation and economic decline, most often for both warring countries.
    And no not a single war in the last 40 years, which would bring progress.

    What progress did the 8-year Iran-Iraq war of 1980-1988 bring?
    What progress did the Falklands War bring in 1982?
    What progress did the 9-year Afghan company of the USSR 1979-1989 bring?
    What progress did the 8-year war in Yugoslavia 1991-1998 bring?
    What progress did the 8-year Iraqi US company 2003-2011 bring?
    What progress has any of the many recent wars in Africa brought?
    Etc...
  39. 0
    3 December 2023 11: 07
    Your publication with a link where “Access to an information resource is limited on the basis of the Federal Law of July 27, 2006 No. 149-FZ “On Information, Information Technologies and Information Protection”” violates the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, in which from “March 4, 2022 years, amendments came into force...(Federal Law No. 04.03.2022-FZ dated March 32, 275), establishing criminal liability for the public dissemination of knowingly false information about the use of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, for public actions aimed at discrediting the use of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in in order to protect the interests of the Russian Federation and its citizens, maintain international peace and security, as well as for calls for the introduction of restrictive measures against the Russian Federation, citizens of the Russian Federation or Russian legal entities...", as well as Article 0001202203040007 “treason”, http:/ /publication.pravo.gov.ru/Document/View/XNUMX