Alpha lithograph: Russia is learning to produce semiconductors

Critical technology

A little background to understand the situation in which modern Russian microelectronics production finds itself.

Now the country is ready to produce, more or less efficiently, only microchips with a 90 nm topology. Production is based at Zelenograd Micron and operates at the limit of its capabilities. It's all about imported photolithographic equipment, which you have to maintain and repair on your own. Equipment for “printing” microcircuits is produced by a few companies in the world, and it is very easy for Americans to monitor the traffic of scarce components.

By the way, with the start of the special operation, the total ban on the supply of photolithographic equipment to Russia became a logical continuation of many years of restrictions. In order for the Americans to allow the Dutch ASML or, at worst, the Japanese Nikon to sell equipment to Russia, it was probably necessary to place a second Rammstein in the Moscow region. And transfer the country's entire nuclear stockpile into the hands of the Pentagon. South Korea, for example, took this path. Taiwan got by without Military bases, but the vassal dependence on American supplies proved sufficient weapons and the close proximity of the Seventh fleet USA.

When the last Nikon and ASML lithographs fail at Zelenograd Micron, there will be nowhere to produce semiconductors.

That is why the largest manufacturers of modern microchips are concentrated in Korea, Taiwan and the United States. Washington keeps lithography technologies more than nuclear secrets - there are far fewer states capable of producing equipment for the microelectronics industry than there are owners of the most powerful weapons in the world.

If we take the most complex 7nm photolithography process as a starting point, then only ASML (Netherlands) and Nikon (Japan) can offer such machines. Moreover, the Japanese have very big reservations.

In Russia, as mentioned above, technology can only produce 90 nm chips and only on imported equipment. According to scientists from the Institute of Physics of Microstructures of the Russian Academy of Sciences, domestic technologies lag behind world technologies in lithography resolution by an order of magnitude, and in the density of a two-dimensional pattern on a chip - by two orders of magnitude. This is such a sad statistic.

As ethereal dreams, what would have happened to Russian lithography if the microelectronics industry, and not Rusnano, had received 280 billion rubles at one time?

Now the government intends to allocate 2025 billion rubles by 100 for the development of a full cycle of semiconductor production. This is frankly not enough - the annual budget of the Dutch ASML exceeds 3,35 billion euros.

The Institute of Physics of Microstructures of the Russian Academy of Sciences should become the lead developer of the domestic photolithograph. Source: olympiada.scientificrussia.ru

The depth of the crisis is revealed by comparing the situation with other industries in which there has been a lag.

For example, the aircraft industry, which came under strict sanctions. Now the industry is able, albeit with great reservations, to produce aircraft for domestic airlines. They may be outdated and not the most economical (for example, the Tu-214), but they can operate in the sky, transport cargo and passengers. The situation is similar in the automotive industry.

But there is a real crisis in microelectronics - even with the ancient 130-nm topology, chips are built on imported sanctioned technology. The age of foreign machine tools is, of course, short-lived.

Part of the problem can be solved by diplomatic mail, stuffing parcels from Europe and the USA with scarce microcircuits and chips, but this is a temporary measure. China looms on the horizon with its permanent technological revolution. But Beijing will never, ever supply photolithographs to Russia. Firstly, this is a powerful tool of influence on Moscow, and secondly, the Chinese themselves do not yet have a normal production of machines for chips.

Let's try to figure out what stage of development the domestic base for photolithography is at.

Second atomic project

For a domestic scientist, engineer and technologist, nothing is impossible. And this is without unnecessary pathos - just remember the nuclear and space projects of the Soviet Union. A country with constantly catching up technological development was able not only to stand on par with the world hegemons, but also to get ahead for years. You just need to find the right managers with strategic thinking. We will find out in the coming years whether we have managed to find effective managers now, when Russia will or will not have its own microelectronics.

Even an extremely simplified diagram of the operation of an X-ray photolithograph clearly shows the level of complexity of the product.

In the meantime, we can only rely on specialists from the Institute of Physics of Microstructures of the Russian Academy of Sciences, or more precisely, the department of multilayer X-ray optics.

Despite the long-term lack of interest on the part of the state in the problem of sovereign lithography, the institute has some developments. For example, ultra-precise X-ray optics on ruthenium-beryllium mirrors. To understand the importance: Zeiss built an entire special optics plant specifically for the needs of the Dutch ASML. They claim that they will learn how to make mirrors for 7-8 nm photolithographs, and this task is not much simpler than launching a man to the Moon. The size of the roughness on the mirror must be less than one nanometer, otherwise the X-ray wave will be reflected with aberrations and story It won't burn out with chips.

Currently, the Russian institute is working on an X-ray lithograph, which, according to scientists, will be 1,5 times more efficient than imported analogues. This is a very bold statement, but the optimism of scientists cannot but rejoice. At the first stage, it is planned to create a schematic diagram of X-ray lithography in metal and plastic and a so-called alpha machine or technology demonstrator.

The unit will not be able to mass-produce microchips, but it will be able to demonstrate the possibility. At least two years are allocated for this. The chip topology is expected to be 28–32 nm in size. And this is only for extremely favorable conditions.

The fact is that management decisions and abundant funding are not a panacea for eliminating the backlog. We need highly qualified personnel, which is a problem. Low salaries have been washing away specialists from all scientific fields without exception for decades. Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev recently reminded everyone that over the past twenty years the number of scientists has decreased by a quarter! According to him,

against the backdrop of an increase in the number of students studying in priority specialties and areas of training, there is a decrease in the level of employment of graduates in their specialty.

There is a time bomb buried here - in the near future there may simply not be enough brains to storm the lithographic peaks. Even if it is now possible to create a sufficient personnel training system, the first specialists will appear no earlier than in ten to fifteen years. By that time, photolithographs may no longer be needed at all.

Let's not talk about sad things.

In four years, a beta machine or industrial prototype for the production of 28 nm chips should appear at the Institute of Microstructure Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences. The first serial photolithographs are promised by 2030.

All of the above refers to the most high-tech units for Russia. They also plan to build equipment that is somewhat simpler to implement. Moreover, 65–350 nm chips will be much more in demand in the domestic industry. Primarily for the defense complex.

According to Deputy Head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade Vasily Shpak, in 2026 Russia will produce the first 130-nm chips using its own equipment. And next year, 2024, 350 nm semiconductors. The official is full of optimism, but we agreed to do without sadness for now. Let's save criticism for the first announcement about the shift of deadlines to the right, which is often observed in Russia.

Can only be called a miracle news from St. Petersburg Polytechnic University.

Local engineers have come up with a kind of maskless mode for etching microcircuits, which is not inferior in quality to the best foreign models. In terms of price, it is generally cheaper by several decades - a Russian unit should cost up to 5 million rubles, and foreign ones cost 10–15 billion. Even if this is close to reality, there are enough nuances.

The breakthrough technology exists at the laboratory level and will require several years of complex engineering before it can be transformed into a working prototype. Or it won’t turn into anything at all - this has happened before, and not only in Russia.

The revival associated with the development of 100 billion rubles provided for by the state program for microelectronics is obvious. If a number of conditions are met and realistic deadlines are set, the history of the domestic photolithograph may turn out to be a reality.

You just need to find the right manager who can take on such responsibility. So far, unfortunately, no new Kurchatovs, Morozovs and Korolevs are on the horizon.

Comments

[Adrey]

Sad article though ...

You just need to find the right manager who can take on such responsibility. So far, unfortunately, no new Kurchatovs, Morozovs and Korolevs are on the horizon.

The manager there was L.P. Beria, and he answered to I.V. Stalin.
The time was different, the country was different, the people were different (in their view of the world). The approach to work and performers was somewhat tougher. So, now everything is orders of magnitude more complicated... with a predictable result.

Revival related with the development of 100 billion rubles, provided for by the state program for microelectronics, is obvious.

[antivirus]

At the same time, in 53, some informed people rejoiced at the execution of Beria. According to his father

[meandr51]

Certainly. Stealing and hacking has become easier.

[AAK]

Well, no one ordered an audit at Rusnano and no one put the well-known red-haired face on the wanted list... it’s all like in the joke - “... who stole, who stole... it’s none of your business, whoever needs it, he stole!..."

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: AAK

the well-known red face was not put on the wanted list

Do you seriously believe that Chubais is to blame for everything? Well, Chubais has been gone for almost 2 years, and what, you can see how everything has gone downhill?

[skeptic]

Quote: karabas-barabas

Well, Chubais has been gone for almost 2 years, so it’s obvious how everything has gone downhill?

Chubchik turned out to be prolific in his followers.

[Quiet Don]

Quote: Adrey

Sad article though ...

You just need to find the right manager who can take on such responsibility. So far, unfortunately, no new Kurchatovs, Morozovs and Korolevs are on the horizon.

The manager there was L.P. Beria, and he answered to I.V. Stalin.
The time was different, the country was different, the people were different (in their view of the world). The approach to work and performers was somewhat tougher. So, now everything is orders of magnitude more complicated... with a predictable result.

Revival related with the development of 100 billion rubles, provided for by the state program for microelectronics, is obvious.

And as soon as Lavrenty Palych managed to do everything, his main occupation was to rape schoolgirls and personally torture and shoot innocent repressed people at a rate of a million a day...

[meandr51]

And... that's why there was a baby boom back then!

[Pravodel]

shoot innocent repressed people a million a day...

Why are you so modest? Not a million at a time, but several million at a time, he personally exterminated in a barn... That’s how bloodthirsty he was. But he built an atomic bomb, won the battle for the Caucasus and did a lot of other good things in the USSR.

[vlad106]

in the 70s in the USSR there were modern factories for the production of semiconductors... Well, with the arrival of the hunchback and his corrupt Rachel Maksudovna, the destruction of industry and the collapse of the country began

[moscowp]

The manager there was L.P. Beria, and he answered to I.V. Stalin.

Beria was not a manager, he was the country's highest official and political figure who oversaw the nuclear project from the moment it was decided to make it a priority and allocate enormous resources. Kurchatov was an outstanding organizer and manager.

[mikh-korsakov]

I’m not ready to argue about who really was the manager, but I know first-hand about the results of management. The fact is that when I was studying, among the teachers there were still alive people who worked in places like Arzamas-16 or Chelyabinsk-40. They told a lot of things, naturally within the limits of what was then permissible. For example, if you need high-purity graphite, a carload of graphite arrives in two weeks. You need beryllium - and beryllium comes. Now it is incomprehensible to the mind how such results could be achieved in a dilapidated country. But they achieved it. Considering all the difficulties - in the 4 years from the Central Committee resolution in October 1946 to August 1949, when a nuclear device was first detonated - this seems incredible, but it happened.

[Bayun]

Emotionless. The main Project Manager, speaking in today's terms, was Lavrenty Pavlovich. The great ones - no doubt - scientists were deputies in Science and Technology. They had little to do with financing, logistics, personnel policy and government promotion (GR) of projects.

[Sanktperburg1812]

Read what state the Georgian SSR was in before Beria began to lead it. And with what economic indicators did he leave it when Stalin took him to Moscow? He personally called the chairmen of state farms, for example, and gave out tangerine seeds - go plant them. That’s why tangerine plantations are still there. This is just a small example.
And you say you are not a manager.
What a truly effective manager.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: moscowp

Kurchatov was an outstanding organizer and manager.

Kurchatov and Beria... Head and hands...
It seems to me that you are confusing the Chief Engineer (inventor-designer) with the Deputy for MTO, the first deputy of Gendir (the one who got it, the puncher, the solver). Hence the confusion.

[nedgen]

Quote: moscowp

The manager there was L.P. Beria, and he answered to I.V. Stalin.

Beria was not a manager, he was the country's highest official and political figure who oversaw the nuclear project from the moment it was decided to make it a priority and allocate enormous resources. Kurchatov was an outstanding organizer and manager.

Sorry, but to put it mildly, you are wrong. Being a project curator is no less difficult than being the manager of that very project. Yes, Beria was an official, BUT he was also an excellent manager. By the way, it was not Kurchatov who knocked out resources and people, but L.P. Beria. In addition, it was Beria who also oversaw the missile project and, if I’m not mistaken, two more key industries. I forgot which ones exactly. And this is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE without organizational skills and the ability to understand people!!! What is the main skill of a manager? Understand people and put the right people in the right positions at the right time!!! (As Joseph Visarionovich said, “Personnel decide EVERYTHING”). And also understand what the main problems of the project you are supervising are. Without all this, you will get another Rogozin or Stoolkin!!!

[serguei france]

The former head of Roscosmos, senator from the Zaporozhye region Dmitry Rogozin is fighting for the purity of the Russian language.
“On the other hand, if we really fight for our identity, history, people, and care about our language, let’s at least adapt foreign terms to our native speech and culture,” the senator urges.
He noted that a whole class of operator-controlled drones used at the front are called FPV. This is an abbreviation for the English First Person View.
“These are small, high-speed and maneuverable “birds” that we actively use at the front for reconnaissance and attacks on enemy positions. Fighters on the front line simply call them “birds.”
Therefore, I propose to choose a Russian name for such a technique,” ​​notes Rogozin.
He suggests the following titles:
BOA - controlled air attack drone;
UDAR – a controlled artillery reconnaissance drone;
DRAGON - aviation reconnaissance drone - optical guidance complex."'
In addition, the politician suggested that the publication announce a competition for the best Russian-language replacement for the name “FPV drone.”
A MAN HAS FOUND A USE FOR HIS ABILITIES, there is no need to attack in vain.

[cast iron]

Fools, limited in intelligence, do not create designs and technologies, but new words and terms.

[Yorgven]

Just try to steal resources for a nuclear project under Beria? They'll put it up against the wall quickly. And now this pitiful lard of dollars will be capitalized even before the funds are allocated.

[Amateur]

Kurchatov was an outstanding organizer and manager.

Kurchatov was neither an outstanding organizer, nor even an outstanding scientist. He was the person who was trusted to read Soviet intelligence reports and convey them to the executors on his own behalf. Therefore, he was not even a secret scientist (unlike S.P. Krolev), because It was he who, on April 25, 1956, gave a report at the English atomic center in Harwell on the results of research by Soviet scientists on the problem of controlled thermonuclear fusion.
And the development of the A-bomb was carried out (theory) by L. Landau, Y. Zeldovich, A. Sakharov. The design itself is by Yu.B. Khariton. (Naturally, with huge teams of scientists.
The organization of the entire process was carried out by the PSU SNK of the USSR, headed by B.L. Vannikov. (20.08.1945/26.06.1953/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX). The deputy heads of the Main Directorate were: Zavenyagin A.P. - first deputy, Borisov N.A. , Meshik P.Ya. , Antropov P.Ya. , Kasatkin A.G.
At the State level, the nuclear project was led by:

By Decree of the State Defense Committee No. 9887ss/op dated August 20, 1945, signed by I.V. Stalin created a Special Committee to guide all work on the use of atomic energy, consisting of: Beria L.P. (chairman), Malenkov G.M. , Voznesensky N.A. , Vannikov B.P. , Zavenyagin A.P. , Kurchatov I.V. , Kapitsa P.L. , Makhnev V.A. , Pervukhin M.G.

[bayard]

Quote: moscowp

Beria was not a manager, he was the country's highest official and political figure who oversaw the atomic project

Yeah, and at the same time he oversaw the missile project, the creation of air defense around Moscow S-25, foreign reconnaissance and a number of other important areas... including architectural - he personally oversaw the construction of the "Stalin skyscrapers" and allegedly personally designed several buildings on Old Square... And how did he also have enough time and energy for “schoolgirls”...?

Quote: moscowp

Kurchatov was an outstanding organizer and manager.

Kurchatov was the project manager, and we are talking about who supervised through the Central Committee - created all the conditions for the successful development of the project, provided everything necessary, controlled the progress of work... In the USSR this was already a tradition. So, even in the late USSR, the curator from the Central Committee called every day the heads of the leading enterprises in the industry (General Mechanical Engineering - Rocket Science) and received a full report on the progress of work. This was the normal rule.
How do we control what is assigned? Has anyone checked Rusnano over all these years? Did you ask for the result? With USC? With ODK? With UAC? ... How did the Golden Cockerel cry in Pushkin's fairy tale of the same name?
"Ti-ku-ku. Reign LYING ON YOUR SIDE!!!"
And it all ended... badly.

[zombirusrev]

Kurchatov, like any theoretical scientist, was a “Botan”; without Beria, nothing could be done normally, the same Korolev when he had a fight with Glushko.. there was no one to separate them and tell them what to do, as a result we have with space (manned ships to the Moon, so and didn’t make it) that we have... we still fly the R-7. Why was Molotov removed from the Atomic Project... didn’t stick around... and so on. Beria was the greatest organizer. In their area, only Glushko, Korolev, Alekseev and Lozino-Lozinsky could compete with him... so...

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Adrey

The manager there was L.P. Beria, and he answered to I.V. Stalin.

I think we also have enough personnel, but another thing is that the state has no desire to invest heavily in this industry. For example, if the GDP specifically set the task to create equipment and set up the production of chips in Russia - the government (Mishustin and his team), met the deadlines, under personal responsibility... and funding would be allocated for hundreds of billions of rubles / if not a trillion (in 10- 15 years), then we would already have such production in our country.... but 100 billion is not that much, we need 4-5 times more to develop a full cycle and launch mass production in an acceptable time frame.

But there is no interest). There are conversations among third/fourth parties among officials about what is needed, what we are planning, etc. but this is not the same scale. There is no priority task and sufficient funding, and hence all the problems... + Russian business elites are not very interested in investing and sharing a piece of the pie (budget) for such a project, the oil and gas industry/metallurgy/chemical industry, etc. is another matter. There you can sell it abroad and make a lot of money from it, but here you will only end up with losses.

[guest]

Quote: Aleksandr21

kept deadlines under personal responsibility...

And what is the responsibility? Chubais stole billions and no case was even opened against him.

[Sanktperburg1812]

Producing chips is half the battle. They need markets. The domestic Russian market is too small. The chips are golden. Business won't work. That is why the USA and China are fighting for global markets.

[guest]

Quote from Sanktperburg1812

The domestic Russian market is too small.

This is why there was no need to collapse the USSR and dissolve the Warsaw Pact.

[Dali]

Quote from Sanktperburg1812

The chips are golden. Business won't work.

Answer from the article:

Local engineers have come up with a kind of maskless mode for etching microcircuits, which is not inferior in quality to the best foreign models. In terms of price, it generally costs several decades – a Russian unit should cost up to 5 million rubles, while foreign ones cost 10–15 billion.

We have brains, the question here is different - who to entrust to quickly bring it to an industrial option, and not like in Rusnano... like into a black hole.

Then they won’t be gold, and even with such a reduction in costs, it will be a revolution!

[Alexey Lantukh]

There is no priority task and sufficient funding and hence all the problems...

Well, the tasks have been set, and as for financing, you can flood the entire field of microelectronics with trillions of rubles, but if there are no scientists and specialists, then most of this money will simply be stolen. Our microelectronics cannot yet handle huge amounts of money.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Alexey Lantukh

Our microelectronics cannot yet handle huge amounts of money.

And the reason? The reason is that microelectronics does not exist in airless space, but in the TECHNOSPHERE (!), which includes materials science, machinery, instruments - precision machines and exclusive production (in an inert environment, in a vacuum, even in weightlessness!), personnel and not only KULIBINS, also DANIIL-MASTERS and LEFT-HANDERS...etc.
But all this, thanks to the efforts of burry traders and effective managers, during the 30th anniversary of the “unrest and admiration for the West,” was successfully destroyed, stolen, and the remains were flushed down the toilet! That’s why now the cart doesn’t move: there’s no one to harness, the shaft broke, the clamp was stolen, and the wheels were taken away too... And blaming everything on Angstrem or MICRON is very convenient: I, my beloved, can’t be seen behind them!
Therefore, before building a house (chips), you need to make a foundation (basic industries), supply blocks for the walls (special production), order (have) rafters for the roof and roofing material (money and logistics), get a project (scientific supervisor with independent education -HAU) and bring a foreman with teams of construction specialists (engineering engineers, designers, production technicians, HIGHLY qualified workers).
And when all this is missing, then you can push until you turn blue and have a stroke with a heart attack - nothing will work out for you...
And to chat and promise... -Yes, we have learned to chat!!! And we promise everything the boss wants to hear! Knowing for sure that they will not be shot or sent to Kolyma...And so much has already been stolen that there is enough for my grandchildren to live a comfortable life!
IMHO.

[Vyacheslav. A.]

Think narrowly! For such money you can buy anyone and anything! Well, you understand the direction of thought!)))

[Alexey Lantukh]

Of course they will buy something, but even in this article they write that the Americans strictly monitor key technologies and key equipment. Of course we will do it ourselves, but it will not be easy and will take a long time.

[Kmon]

Budgets and capabilities were also incomparable. The USSR consisted of 15 countries (and this is not counting vassals like the GDR).

[strelec69]

Not from 15 countries, but from 13 parasites, not counting the vassals in which the USSR invested a huge amount of money.

[Kmon]

Why do you think the USSR and Russia had incomparable budgets and capabilities? The USSR calmly maintained the second economy in the world, a huge army and navy, where does such a difference come from? Do you know that half of the Red Army in World War II were not Russians? Or how many were taken from the GDR, including scientists, and how much useful things did the East Germans and even the Poles do after the war?

[Sergej1972]

Somewhere around 60 percent of Soviet industry and an even larger percentage of applied and especially fundamental science came from one, the largest republic, the RSFSR. If we take the military-industrial complex of the USSR, then the RSFSR accounted for 70-75 percent. That is, one republic was one and a half times more powerful than the 14 others. The situation was somewhat different in agriculture, where the RSFSR accounted for a little more than half. The share of the RSFSR in the light industry of the Union was lower than the share in the military-industrial complex, heavy industry, and science.

[Puzoter]

It's not about the times, you don't choose times, you live and die in them. It's a matter of responsibility - try not to do what Beria instructed you to do, but if you did - all imaginable and inconceivable benefits to you. And now you can “master” (some kind of vile word) billions with zero results, and then throw up your hands and not even lose your chair.

[vladimmiroff]

The point is not about Beria, as such. The Bolsheviks sat the whole country at their desks for a reason. Entire industries and scientific schools were created. Which, alas, no longer exist. Money and managers are not everything, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is no stratum now like a scientist, no one needs them. We need oil workers and military personnel. Without this, the country will languish.

[Rome]

Quote: Adrey

The time was different, the country was different, the people were different (in their view of the world). The approach to work and performers was somewhat tougher

I don't agree! Among scientists and designers there are a lot of people ready and willing to create something like that, for example a lithograph. And they are ready to work 24/7 not for money, but for the sake of an idea (I personally know such people, but in a different area). Naturally, you need money, you need to live on something, and most importantly, all this science costs normally, just on current consumables! Such people are ready to devote themselves to work, but they cannot guarantee the result (who knows what will happen in the end?) And as fanatics in general, they do not think about the cost and consequences! But for an official, we really think about it, because he then needs to report for the money spent, and in the event of a very likely failure, to the prosecutor’s office! Why would effective managers take such a risk?
Such projects should be supervised either by the head of state himself, or by someone who reports only to him!

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: Eroma

Such projects should be supervised either by the head of state himself, or by someone who reports only to him!

And where in human history has this worked? In Japan, the USA, South Korea, Taiwan, Israel, Germany, and the leaders of the electronics industry, have they seen at least one official anywhere? What do any officials have to do with chip development? It is the market and the demand for the product that generate supply and investment, respectively. And talented engineers and scientific developers do not want to have certificates of honor, but a share of sales for patents and developments. The bulk of chips are needed not for weapons, but for household appliances, and it is private technology concerns that supply the military-industrial complex with the processors and other components it needs. In the meantime, according to the orders of one official, other officials will be expected to create something; of course, there will be nothing at the end except cut-up budget money, which is what we are seeing in the Russian Federation. Generally interesting discussion here. There is some experience in the world of creating high-tech products, and it is not clear how Beria, Stalin, etc. relate to this?

[Rome]

Quote: karabas-barabas

Where in human history has this worked? In Japan, USA, South Korea, Taiwan, Israel, Germany, leaders of electronic

Surprise, but everywhere! All breakthrough technologies that require huge investments and have the same huge technical risks were created only with the help of the state!
Silicon Valley, as well as the Internet, were created initially not for the civilian market, but by order of the US Army, at the expense of the state budget, and there were curators from the US Defense Ministry!
Later, when companies working for the US Department of Defense received unique technologies, thanks to funding from the US Department of Defense, they received permission to use them for commercial purposes for the civilian market!
Stalin and Beria created the foundation of Soviet industrial, scientific and economic power, and by the way, the Russian economy, industry and science were also preserved thanks to this foundation! Therefore, it is important to study their work experience!
It’s the same in all countries, Chinese MEGA corporations are state-owned companies from the start!
Today, Elan Musk finances his developments through orders for launches for the Pentagon, because big guys in the USA decided that their space industry needs such a person!

[Amateur]

It is the market and the demand for the product that generate supply and investment, respectively.

Either the bad boy Yegor Gaidarysh himself has resurrected, or one of his “granddaughters” remembered this bankrupt theory.
It's not good to deceive people!

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Eroma

Such projects should be supervised either by the head of state himself, or by someone who reports only to him!

Totally agree with you. This problem is akin to the ATOMIC project of the 50s! And it is necessary to put on him a manager with iron Faberge and an unyielding will, vested with the fullness of executive power within the limits of the powers given to him!
But the author believes that everything depends on an effective manager! And inventors-scientists-designers are a free appendix to it. I don't agree with this. I also disagree with a number of statements made by Mr. E. Fedorov. But, in order:
1.he writes about the crisis in the aviation industry, mentioning the Tu-214, but does not remember the completely Russian Super Jet-100 with PD-14, MS-90 and Il-96-400M;
2. comparing the Dutch lithographer and ours, he does not mention at all what their differences are, because ours is more effective and it is not a “repetition of Western backsides” with ruthenium-birylium mirrors and tin vapor. Our lithograph is not a CO2 laser, but a neutron laser and krypton with prisms and lenses.
3. topology - awesome! Where did he get 28-32 nm from?
“2018: -- a working demonstrator has already been created, capable of forming nanostructures up to 7 nm. An industrial prototype of a domestic 7 nm lithograph is planned to be created in 6 years, i.e. by 2024.”
4. personnel and salaries. This problem is already being solved through a national project and presidential grants. Not everyone, but the most advanced, smart, promising, future Nobel laureates...
5. about brains - complete nonsense! Our KNOW-HOW is fundamentally different from the Netherlands-Piderland-Gondonians. See for yourself:
“A lithographic installation has been developed at the Institute of Applied Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences (IPF RAS) in Nizhny Novgorod. In 2011, a lithograph demonstrator with a working wavelength of 13,5 nm was built. It was a test bed as part of ongoing fundamental scientific research. (That is, in 2011 a really working sample was created.)
Instead of the molten tin source used in projection lithography by ASML, the Russian development uses a xenon-based target. With comparable efficiency, this significantly simplifies the design of the source and the laser system, minimizes contamination of optical elements, reduces the operating wavelength by 20% when operating at a wavelength of 10,8 nm, and by 2 times at a wavelength of 6,7 nm. Of course, decreasing the wavelength proportionally increases the resolution of the lithograph.
Our demonstration stand already has a wavelength of 11,3 nm, which exceeds the performance of the ASML company. In this case, an optical element is used that is capable of focusing X-rays rather than reflecting them, as is done in ASML installations. X-ray optics was developed jointly by the institute and the Rosatom corporation.
Scientists from the USA agreedthat a lithograph based on a Russian development will be 1,5-2 times more efficient than that of the ASML company. If everything can be implemented on time, the world’s first X-ray photolithographic installation will appear, operating in the wave ranges of 10,8 and 6,7 nm with a resolution of up to 1 nm.”
6. The author mentions only the Institute of MK Electronics RAS. But is it? Is IME RAS alone fighting for our microelectronics? Not at all!
"in Russia in March 2022 by order Ministry of Industry and Trade began to develop the concept of a maskless X-ray photolithograph with a wavelength of less than 13,5 nm based on a synchrotron source. 670 million rubles were allocated for these works.
The work included MIET, the Zelenograd company ESTO and the Zelenograd synchrotron - now the technological storage complex (TNC) "Zelenograd" of the National Research Center "Kurchatov Institute". "
In summary: Today, more than 50% of all electronics in the world (including automotive, space and industrial) are produced according to 360-180-65 nm standards. We have developed a technological process at 130nm. The reserve is 28 nm. According to these standards, Russia creates its own lithographs, which eliminates all demand in electronics.
For the 7-5 nm process technology, a completely new production facility with a triple “clean zone” and complete isolation from the seismic influence of the environment is being built in Zelenograd near Moscow.
Therefore, the decadent tone and sentiments of the author do not entirely correspond to reality.
IMHO.

[jonht]

Greetings! I will add one more omission by the author, the AMD Dresden factory was purchased and exported to Russia, which had equipment for producing chips according to 65 nm standards. I don’t know whether the equipment was installed or not, but the very presence of equipment in the country is definitely there. And as far as I can judge, the same Taiwanese produced chips according to 45 nm standards in a similar way.

[Rome]

I’m not very interested in the topic, just for my horizons.
In the USSR there was microelectronics and they made their own chips, which means that the technology for their production had the scientific basis as well. Therefore, today, not out of nowhere, we are trying to revive the production of chips, so the probability is quite high, what should happen, maybe there is no analogue, but I think we will make quite working machines and close the most critical issues!

[Alexey Lantukh]

Of course, we will make lithographs and microcircuits that are miniature, but it will not be easy and will take a long time. Sorry for the wasted time and lost footage.

[Fan-fan]

But it seems to me that Russia will no longer be able to catch up with the West in this matter. We are even behind in car production forever, and it’s useless to talk about microelectronics. There are some Koreans from Samsung making microchips using 3 nm technology.

[Romanovski]

There is no need to worry about China, since competition is encouraged by the state in both the private and public sectors. What cannot be said about Russia, where they poorly understand (or do not want...?) the truth that any monopoly leads to decay ...The Chinese have enough of their own agents in Taiwan (and not only...) and rest assured that very soon China will create its own equipment for the production of the latest microcircuits....But as for Russia, everything is not so just...Why??? But because the Russian state is ready to allocate a lot of money to ONLY ONE (!?!?) organization for this matter... And this is fundamentally WRONG, since it is better to allocate five COMPETING ORGANIZATIONS (and private ones too.. MANDATORY...) fifty billion rubles each (interest-free loans or grants...) and after a while see WHO will win this race, SINCE SUCH EQUIPMENT IS A STATEGIC PRIORITY OF THE STATE and the usual practices of choosing a “contractor” - CANNOT BE APPLIED here categorically.... The main thing - control and DEMAND after the allocation of money...And in Russian conditions - we all understand very well WHAT METHODS (by hook or by crook..) organizations (mainly government structures..) will fight for this jackpot in the amount of 100 billion rubles. ...I am more than sure that if this money of the Russian TAXPAYER goes to ONLY ONE ORGANIZATION, THEN THE RESULT WILL BE AS DISTRESSIVE AS IN Chubais’ “RUSNANO”...Even Stalin understood at one time THAT THE CREATION OF A NEW STYLE ARMAMENTS - IN NO EVENT SHOULD YOU TRUST JUST ONE ORGANIZATION, BUT THERE MUST BE HEALTHY COMPETITION... And in such a race, that is, a competitive struggle, which the state SIMPLY MUST organize, a worthy "contractor" will most likely win.. .

[Codett]

But now Vovkin’s main specialist, whose last name is Chubais, has left, but it’s a pity that this man has more than enough followers, and that’s why our country needs people like Beria.

[Eule]

Quote: Adrey

Sad article though

How else?
To revive the industry, completely different measures are needed - dispersal of the Pension Fund, strict restrictions on taxes and fees, no more than 10 percent of income, the death penalty for officials who try to take more.
A moratorium on the adoption of new laws, for at least 50 years. And in order to keep the deputies occupied, let them cancel piecemeal what they adopted before.
Licensing of the activities of ecologists - an ecologist can be called someone who has a geological and biological education, five years of experience as a blaster, healthy children studying in Europe, a rifled weapon for at least 10 years. That is, a smart and honest person.

[jdiver]

and how do children studying in Europe relate to everything else listed?

[Eule]

About the requirement of experience as a blaster, you understood me, which is very good.

Quote from jdiver

children studying in Europe

A sign that a person was able to give them an education sufficient to enter somewhere in Europe.

[9PA]

It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to catch up with advanced countries in the field of microelectronics. Either create computer systems on new principles, or launch nuclear strikes on 5-7 points on the planet and return the whole world to our level.

[bya965]

Quote: 9PA

It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to catch up with advanced countries in the field of microelectronics.

Don't make my tomatoes laugh. They hurt me from the barbell.
If we repeat after them, we may not catch up.
And if we think with our own Russian heads, we will definitely do it and “we will do them,” but not like everyone else.
So it was and it will be so.

[Igor K_2]

There is no one to think that way. In recent decades, our education has not prepared the necessary specialists. But an army of marketers, economists, and programmers will be of little help here.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Igor K_2

There is no one to think that way.

And what to do with guys like this young scientist from the Institute of Physics and Mathematics of the Russian Academy of Sciences?

[Alexey Lantukh]

Scientific breakthroughs in science and technology are made not by armies of heterogeneous specialists, but by individual teams that have their own super-specialists, I’m afraid of the word genius.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: bya965

Don't make my tomatoes laugh. They hurt me from the barbell.

So don’t throw the barbell at your tomatoes - watch how advanced athletes perform the exercises and you will be happy.

Quote: bya965

And if we think with our own Russian head, then we will definitely do it and “we will do them”,

Have already done. They built their own bourgeoisism, different from any other, where the bourgeoisie are the oppressors of the people... Our state does this...

[bya965]

Quote: ROSS 42

So don’t throw the barbell at your tomatoes - watch how advanced athletes perform the exercises and you will be happy.

Tiki Vee is complete, complete.
And in Russian, I’m almost 60, I have a year left, I think I’ll make everyone in the world do the shot put.
And what kind of person are you Ross? You were a brat throughout life.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: bya965

Quote: 9PA

It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to catch up with advanced countries in the field of microelectronics.

Don't make my tomatoes laugh. They hurt me from the barbell.
If we repeat after them, we may not catch up.
And if we think with our own Russian heads, we will definitely do it and “we will do them,” but not like everyone else.
So it was and it will be so.

There is no need for propaganda slogans.
To come up with something new, you need to go through all the steps of the past.
Have chemistry, materials science, machine tool engineering and many other things proven in mass production.
Have a proven education system where teachers really know the latest technologies.
And a student genius can create something new in the future only by relying on his wealth of knowledge and skills.
What if this is not the case?
If there is no fulcrum?
A Neanderthal would never invent a cordless circular saw; his level of knowledge would only allow him to create a stone axe.

[bya965]

Quote: SovAr238A

A Neanderthal would never invent a cordless circular saw; his level of knowledge would only allow him to create a stone axe.

But the Neanderthal was smart, especially in comparison

[bya965]

Quote: SovAr238A

Have a proven education system where teachers really know the latest technologies.
And a student genius can create something new in the future only by relying on his wealth of knowledge and skills.

I have been teaching mathematics, mechanics and computer science at a university since 89. We write a bunch of pieces of paper, some numbers, zetas. But as I was taught, so I teach. And the “enemies of the people” were still sitting in the ministry, but of course they were causing harm. I think there are 24 thousand of them now.
The points.
1. You don't need 7 nanometers for independence. Enough for production and for the military 300.
2. Fewer nanometers only affects energy saving and heating. And this is a niche for consumer goods, mobile phones, computers, etc.
3. To break even, we need approximately 400 million of our own population; no one will let us into the world market.
4. The average intelligence of the Caucasian race is 100%, the Mongoloid race is 110% (but they invent worse, but they are better engineers and performers), and the Negroid race is approximately 75%. This is due to the fact that Caucasoid and Mongoloid have from 4 to 20% Neanderthal genes, while Negroid have none at all. They had larger brains relative to their weight than we do. Why they didn't survive is a difficult question, perhaps a virus or something else. Therefore, the Caucasian and Mongoloid races do not have the same genetic diversity as the Negroid race. And they are genetically very close to each other. External signs are external signs.

Don’t offend the Neanderthals, your phrase touched me

[dmi.pris1]

Yes, it was. So will it be? The big question is... Who, and for what benefits will do this. A third of the budget now goes to defense, and I’m not sure that huge sums are spent on creating a lithograph.

[meandr51]

What prevents you from moving in both directions at the same time?

[dmi.pris1]

Zarathustra interferes. As in war, so in the home front. From banal stupidity and fear of losing a warm place to lack of funds

[Doctor]

It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to catch up with advanced countries in the field of microelectronics. Either create computer systems on new principles, or launch nuclear strikes on 5-7 points on the planet and return the whole world to our level.

Over 40 years old. Subject to hard and focused work.
And for this, first of all, we need a stable political system.
And for this we need social justice and the Law.
One for everyone.
What we don’t have and don’t expect.

[Yuriy Filatov]

Where did you find interesting sushi about one law for everyone in a stable political system and social justice?
Have you been to the USA for a long time? Did you see the same law there for everyone? Or maybe social justice?
It is social NOT justice that is the engine of progress.
When one unique specialist gets a salary of 500 thousand, and another 50 thousand, it is precisely because they did not become unique.

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: Yuri Filatov

It is social NOT justice that is the engine of progress.
When one unique specialist gets a salary of 500 thousand, and another 50 thousand, it is precisely because they did not become unique.

Do you think that in Microsoft, Apple and other global concerns like Rusnano, they give salaries based on connections?)) Do you think that some specialists are called unique out of a hangover, because someone likes it that way? And why then is it possible to do anything in the USA, but not in the Russian Federation, since there are no differences?

[tsvetahaki]

As ethereal dreams, what would have happened to Russian lithography if the microelectronics industry, and not Rusnano, had received 280 billion rubles at one time?

And if instead of the Olympics (phew!) and the World Cup (boom!) we spent on factories that were not sanctioned at that time... and not 280 billion rubles from Rusnano, but 60-100 billion dollars of swelled dollars... True, there would be fewer stadiums and villas and yachts...

But if we talk about the present, if we don’t feel (as, alas, many here) are true Aryans, whose engineers, due to their nationality, are immeasurably more brilliant than the rest of the world - then in a country of 140 million people, not very developed with a murdered education, it will not be possible to catch up - it will be eternal lag.
I am glad that we are going in the right direction - but we must understand that if we go, others will run. That is, walking is better than standing - but much slower than running. But there is no strength to run, there is only enthusiasm - but even that is from the audience.
So what to do? It’s too late to drink Borjomi, unless China throws in... experiments, like those described, to maintain enthusiasm... You need to have too much of everything, even except for a single excellent lithographer (if) before the factory... This industry is a pyramid, not a minaret... A meter up - a kilometer of the base needs to be done.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote from tsvetahaki

And if instead of the Olympics (phew!) and the World Cup (boom!) we spent on factories that were not sanctioned at that time... and not 280 billion rubles from Rusnano, but 60-100 billion dollars of swelled dollars... True, there would be fewer stadiums and villas and yachts...

And there is nothing to argue with!!! (although one...was found)
In our country, a state was built to enrich a single family and its acquaintances.
And it should be popular, not bourgeois.

[Sergey Novikov_3]

What are we even talking about? What are the allocated 280 lard rubles? When the Stirlitz economists from the Central Bank and the Ministry of Economy simply gave the West about a trillion dollars! When we realized all this, their ass tightened a little, and then the main one said: don’t be afraid, stay in your places, while I’m here, no one will touch you. And the beautiful mazuriki began to work again in full force, raising the key rates, driving the remaining heavy horses into a corner

[Sergey Novikov_3]

For these brave guys (and girls), trouble is no problem, a “star” helps them guide them..

[Alexey Lantukh]

Stop lying. The conversation was not about a trillion, but about 300 billion. And the West has not yet found all 300 and are wondering where they are all. And where did you get the information about the CIA mazuriki? Report back.

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: Alexey Lantukh

Stop lying. The conversation was not about a trillion, but about 300 billion. And the West has not yet found all 300 and are wondering where they are all.

There is talk about $2 trillion exported from the Russian Federation to the West over the past 20 years. And they have already frozen $300 billion, from which they even collected several billion dollars, which they now want to give to Ukraine. In Switzerland alone there are officially $200 billion of Russian citizens, but the gray figure is estimated at $500-600 billion, and this is in Switzerland alone.

[wladimirjankov]

Stirlitz economists from the Central Bank and the Ministry of Economy simply gave it to the West!

Most likely, they simply did not know about the plans of the main one. And the latter, like many times before, simply did not calculate the chain of consequences of his decision and did not give the command in advance to the “Stirlitz economists” to withdraw assets from the West. It is the main fault that hundreds of billions of dollars from our country’s reserves are suspended. He knows this, which is why he did not punish his officials in any way.

[AA17]

This industry is a pyramid, not a minaret... A meter up - a kilometer of the base must be made.

Very true remark.

Everything is very logical.
If you want to create a theocratic state, then you need to build more different churches and temples (three complexes a day). Exempt from various taxes.
If you want to develop a state that sells all kinds of raw materials, you need to produce more sales managers and economists. Pay them big salaries.

And for the development of industry in the state, it is first of all necessary to “revive the real cult of the scientist, engineer, worker” (c).
One of the most important conditions: the MINPROMTORG should be divided into the Ministry of Industry and the Ministry of Trade.

[Dimy4]

As ethereal dreams, what would have happened to Russian lithography if the microelectronics industry, and not Rusnano, had received 280 billion rubles at one time?

Then this red-haired bastard... would have ended up there. As they say, rearranging the terms does not change the sum.

[ivan2022]

After the complete self-destruction of society in the early 90s, it’s funny to talk about “how not to overstrain” with electronics.
Those whose brains continue to leak “over the hill” for decades in a row do not need to be afraid of a hernia.

Our unique society will most likely be the subject of study by psychiatrists, because only they can explain what happened in it......

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: ivan2022

After the complete self-destruction of society in the early 90s, it’s funny to talk about “how not to overstrain” with electronics.
Those whose brains continue to leak “over the hill” for decades in a row do not need to be afraid of a hernia.
Our unique society will most likely be the subject of study by psychiatrists, because only they can explain what happened in it......

I don’t know about psychiatrists, but in China there is a whole institute that works on just one issue - “The causes of the collapse of the USSR.”

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Nyrobsky

I don’t know about psychiatrists, but in China there is a whole institute that works on just one issue - “The causes of the collapse of the USSR.”

You can tell the Chinese that this institute can be closed.
The collapse of the USSR is based on incorrect (let's call it that) personnel policy.
As a result, there were too many characters in key positions of government who wanted to monetize their powers of power.
The rest is secondary.

[jdiver]

Or infectious disease specialists. What happens to a healthy social organism that has contracted the virus of parasitism-capitalism.

[AdAstra]

It seems to me, sir, that they will not be able to do this either.

[klev72]

About the St. Petersburg university, the first thought was about sabotage. The entire group of developers is under protection and state support.

[Nikolay Malyugin]

If you want to grow a new culture, you need to create favorable soil for this culture. Why were new scientific technologies adopted so quickly in our country? Again, at any level, people were prepared from childhood, ready to support any scientific initiative.

[wladimirjankov]

Firstly, who will train these children and secondly, why should we support any scientific initiatives? There are different initiatives. For example, at one time there were Lysenko’s initiatives or the initiative to divert Siberian rivers through atomic explosions.

[Vita vko]

It is simply stupid for the state to implement such projects on its own, without international cooperation. This is not only expensive, but also will not pay off due to the small sales market. For Russia, the best partner in such a project is China. And this is not only because of strategic partnership and economic potential. The main thing is that in China people are shot for corruption. And our “effective” managers who steal the budget will be much less “effective”.

[Qas]

It is precisely such thoughts “abroad will help us” that are harmful from the very beginning. No one will help us except ourselves! Only yourself! But this, unfortunately, will not happen. There are too many such “foreign-oriented” people in power and around them.

[Vita vko]

Quote: Qas

abroad will help us"

These are the stereotypes of the 90s, when Yeltsin and his hangers-on received gifts in exchange for the destruction of the Soviet economy and competitive enterprises. No one will help in the joint venture and joint research. A joint venture, especially a 50/50 one, involves equal investments and equal risks.

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: Qas

It is precisely such thoughts “abroad will help us” that are harmful from the very beginning. No one will help us except ourselves!

Well, if you put aside all sorts of emotions and look at the facts, then “abroad” in the form of American foundations and philanthropists saved Russian science and all the scientists until recently left for America-Europe-Israel since the early 90s, and many still remained in Russia , which by the end of the 90s led to the largest surge in mechanical engineering in Russian history. From the beginning of the 2000s, as soon as oil rose from $10 to $150, the government’s interest in this disappeared, anything could be bought for oil $, and the development curve of mechanical engineering began to rapidly fall down until 2011-2013. All this is not difficult to find in the public domain, if you like on the ROSTAT website. The person at the top, who for some reason was downvoted, said the obvious thing - without cooperation with the leaders of a particular industry, it will not be possible to create complex things, just as without sales markets. Even if we imagine that such a large country will be able to organize the production of literally everything that can come to mind, then without supplies to foreign markets this will not work. You apparently have no idea what you are writing about, you don’t know what such enterprises look like from the inside.

[nickname7]

in the form of American foundations and philanthropists, it was precisely that that saved Russian science and all the scientists until recently left for America-Europe-Israel since the beginning of the 90s,

It is documented how Siemens saved the industry, he bought electrical plants and bankrupted them, and scientists, financed by foreign funds, left for the United States.

without cooperation with leaders of a particular industry, it will not be possible to create complex things,

Nobody argues that it’s good to cooperate with Abramovich and live on his yacht, but it’s good for you, and you’re not interesting for the oligarch. China is not interested in cooperation in electronics with the Russian Federation; moreover, it wants to capture the market for finished products and not create a competitor.

set up products for literally everything that comes to mind

Again, in the wrong direction, well, the Russian Federation can confidently replace at least a quarter of all imports, this is enough, the problem is that the economic bloc of the government has accepted the idea of ​​import substitution.

[Dutchman Michel]

Quote: Vita VKO

The main thing is that in China people are shot for corruption.

And they do it right. They also show it on TV. I would like to see Chubais on his knees with an executioner's pistol pressed to his head

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Vita VKO

And our “effective” managers who steal the budget will be much less “effective”.

The right way to deal with defective managers is simply simple:
1. Setting a specific task and completing it within a given time frame.
2. Shifting the deadlines to the right - complete confiscation of property.
3. Completing the task without taking into account the preservation of specified properties - 10 years of work at a closed solid waste processing plant.

[Tikhonov_Alexander]

Dear Yuri Vasilievich! You are right - there are many ways to fight corruption. But with us everything goes according to the principle - hand washes hand... Our entire elite are active and nurtured followers of the criminal EBN and his accomplices. The system they created for plundering the country did not show even the smallest semblance of rational state building and it is unlikely that anything will change in the future... They constantly explain to us that someone else is to blame - remember the words of the guarantor that we were “deceived”... So There is no point in hoping that the “effective” ones will suddenly become wiser. I repeat - a system has been created that is 100% satisfactory for the current “managers” who work like slaves in galleys, and they themselves will not break it...

[bk0010]

Quote: ROSS 42

The right way to deal with defective managers is simply simple:
1. Setting a specific task and completing it within a given time frame.
2. Shifting the deadlines to the right - complete confiscation of property.
3. Completing the task without taking into account the preservation of specified properties - 10 years of work at a closed solid waste processing plant.

But you will have to carry out your task yourself: why would anyone take such risks?

[Irokez]

Speak correctly.
As they say: “if you advise, do it yourself.” Otherwise he got excited - confiscation, 10 years. I wonder when there is uncertainty in future developments and punishment for this is expected - how many will want to punish themselves?
Look, a second Beria has been found.

[wladimirjankov]

Yes, this is precisely what does not exist in our country. Setting a task, assigning someone responsible for its implementation and constantly monitoring the progress of its implementation. Everything ends with decrees, resolutions, orders, programs, laws and other good “wishes”. The main thing for us is to voice the problem, promote it, and then safely forget it. A clear example is the story of our national programs. Who remembers them now and where are the results of these programs?

[victor50]

Quote: Vita VKO

This is not only expensive, but also will not pay off due to the small sales market.

If we are talking about critical technologies, then is it time to think about the price?! When they are there, then you can look for how to make money on them. And the mantra about an insufficient sales market, it seems to me, invented by “effective managers,” greatly contributed to the destruction of everything and everyone in the country. I have heard that it is not profitable to produce everything in Russia. It seems that only stealing is profitable.

[wladimirjankov]

It is definitely not profitable to produce anything in Russia. Any person who has tried to do this will tell you this. Only the extraction of natural resources and the resale of everything can still bring at least some profit. That’s why we don’t produce, but buy everything overseas and resell it. This is the kind of economy we have, in which neither science, nor technical education, nor engineers are needed. Now, when we were pressed, we suddenly wondered if this was right. We need to change our leaders and the so-called elite, who brought us to this and who for some reason are constantly being deceived by their partners and sworn friends. Or maybe they themselves were happy to be deceived.

[Moneron]

Under Putin's rule, no technological breakthroughs are possible in Russia. our president is an ardent supporter of half-measures....in all areas....and is not very literate in technological progress. so you can safely forget about 100 billion. rubles for Russian IT hardware... as well as possible subsequent injections into this absolutely empty place. That’s why smart Russian IT heads scatter all over the world... no one wants to bury their talent in a hardened country. “there is hopelessness here” is their motto. Well, the budget rats are already excited....they are inspired by the example of the unsinkable Chubais.....apparently, powerfully covered from above.
everything will be as always in Russia...the clearest example is with Rusnano...and it won’t last forever...and then, you see, we’ll ask you to lift the sanctions. why bother?

[Dutchman Michel]

Second atomic project

Yes, in terms of scale this can be equated to the atomic project and space exploration. But now there is no comrade. Stalin, nor his efficient Politburo.

[Mikhalych]

Quote: klev72

About the St. Petersburg university, the first thought was about sabotage. The entire group of developers is under protection and state support.

They treated Tesla gently, they simply took away all his discoveries so that they would not interfere with the production of copper wires for transmitting electricity. And how many scientists have already been destroyed for wanting to boast about their breakthrough discoveries! And the Americans in 1940 for learning how to make fuel for cars from water in defiance of oil companies, and ours. A long tongue leads not only to Kyiv, but also to the grave!

[karabas-barabas]

All progress in technology is in the West for one simple reason - market economics, private property and the rule of law. And there is no need to invent something here and shaggy grandma, either Beria or Stalin are needed. In order for something to be created, the creator must be sure that his invention will not be taken away, that he can make money from it. That there won’t be any FSB checks during the process. We must always look at world experience, and not invent all sorts of utopias.

[Repellent]

Quote: karabas-barabas

There’s no need to invent something here and make grandma look shaggy

exactly. You're not a drummer, you're a scoundrel

[karabas-barabas]

Well, he did it, he did it, he’s a real lump of intellect and reason! But in essence, as always, there is nothing to say.

[ximkim]

Even Putin is giving up, it’s a mess..
We urgently need optimization!

[Marc_Aurel]

Russian engineers and scientists launched probes to Venus, which successfully landed and transmitted data. The surface temperature of Venus is about 450 degrees Celsius. I don’t even want to imagine what calculations were required to achieve such a result. Thus, it should be possible to create photolithographs that approach or exceed ASML and Nikon photolithographs. Yes, I know that it was the Soviet Union that launched probes to Venus, but what the USSR could do, modern Russia can do, if it puts in the effort and without dictators and their henchmen who will shoot a bunch of people. Imagine if Russia managed to become a technologically leading chip manufacturer in a few years, what an effect this would have on the entire industry. However, I am a non-specialist and an armchair strategist, I don’t know what is needed for this, but the topic is so important that research and work on it should be carried out around the clock and in shifts, even if we have to build a Russian Silicon Valley from underground with its own supply industry. There must be people in Russia who can practically organize such a project and effectively use financial resources without wasting them, project managers who will achieve good, reliable and measurable progress in the shortest possible time. Imagine how Americans' mouths will gape if Russia appears around the corner with 4nm chips or other technologies with comparable characteristics. In parallel with lithographs, of course, it would be nice to invest in the development of software and hardware, perhaps creating your own advanced operating system, at least suitable for solving industrial, government and military problems, without buying it from Microsoft or other corrupt Yankee corporations.

[Kmon]

You forget that the USSR essentially consisted of 15 countries, and not just Russia. Well, the regime was completely different.

[Marc_Aurel]

When I say “Russia,” I of course mean the Russian Federation, which also consists of several countries/territories with varying degrees of autonomy, and it was not my intention to disparage or pit the subterritories against each other.

I find it unfortunate that some commenters on this site are quick to downvote when you suggest change without bloodshed, some here seem hell bent on elevating hard men with firing squads to the top, always hoping to stand behind the guns and not end up in front of them.

[tsvetahaki]

Imagine if Russia managed to become a technologically leading chip manufacturer in a few years, what an effect this would have on the entire industry.

Lord, at least read something about electronics...
This is such naivety... the less a person knows, the more optimism there is...
However, the proverb is true - a pessimist is a well-informed optimist...

[Marc_Aurel]

You may know the saying: "Everyone said it couldn't be done until someone came along who didn't know and just did it" Look at the Chinese: 30 years ago they were ridiculed and considered backward in many areas, but today they are very important and give Uncle Sam a big headache. As a layman, I can imagine that it is impossible to make very much progress in 2-3 years, but you have to set a goal and start, otherwise nothing will change.

[tsvetahaki]

Quote: Marc_Aurel

You may know the saying: "Everyone said it couldn't be done until someone came along who didn't know and just did it" Look at the Chinese: 30 years ago they were ridiculed and considered backward in many areas, but today they are very important and give Uncle Sam a big headache. As a layman, I can imagine that it is impossible to make very much progress in 2-3 years, but you have to set a goal and start, otherwise nothing will change.

What exactly did they (the Chinese) do?
Back in 2005, speaking with one of the leaders of a well-known American company transferring production to China, I argued - and he agreed - that only this company with its own hands transfers technology, know-how to China for free, conducts training - for which 1000 would be arrested "Russian spies" and would have been imprisoned for 20 years.
And this happened for many years - transfer of production and development, closure of the company, contract with a small number of leading engineers for 3 years of work in China, training of the Chinese, transfer of experience that is not in the documents (not everything, alas, can be documented even with their discipline )...
This does not detract from the merits of China and the fact that they trained a huge number of engineers in the States and Canada...
But, the main thing is, THEY WERE TAUGHT! Factories were built for them and equipment was transferred to them. And then, after many cycles and copying attempts, it began to work out.
Therefore, “some 30 years.”

[Marc_Aurel]

But it’s not that all these things flew into the mouths of the Chinese of their own accord, like fried pigeons; behind them stands, firstly, a firm determination to change something, no matter how hopeless it may seem, and secondly, the concept of implementation that they persistently adhered to for several decades and which includes, among other things, the creation of conditions that attract foreign companies. They send their students to Western universities, give them the opportunity to work for several years after graduation in Western companies, they crawl around exhibitions, photograph and document everything. For Russia, all this in this form in today’s conditions is probably impossible, but you can try to work with the Chinese or find other ways to obtain the necessary information. Russia today, of course, has better conditions than the Chinese had 30 years ago, and, probably, this can be done in a much shorter time frame. By the way, 20 years ago I already believed that it was not very smart for the West to voluntarily transfer all its knowledge to China, and I’m not alone, but greed and the ability to produce cheaply are stronger than common sense in Western companies, in the end, they might not give a damn and say to ourselves: if we don't do it, others will, and our company must be there if we want to survive.

[Skif3216]

The fact is that management decisions and abundant funding are not a panacea for eliminating the backlog. Of course, that’s true, but maybe they at least tried with financing, I’m not even talking about smart decisions.

[ivan2022]

Everything will be stolen.... No matter how much you finance.
As long as the word “authority” means a thief in our country, there will be no semiconductors.

After all, a thief is a kind of wizard. He turns anything into cash. No academician can achieve such a miracle!

[Repellent]

Quote: ivan2022

the word "authority" means a thief

“Vanya”, this word does not mean “thief” anywhere, except in your rotten training manual. Change your lane already, "Vanya"

[T-100]

For a domestic scientist, engineer and technologist, nothing is impossible. And this is without unnecessary pathos - just remember the nuclear and space projects of the Soviet Union.

Well, that's what it's all about, every time. In different articles from different authors. There, in that already distant civilization, the labor of a worker was held in high esteem. In the current fragment of that civilization, the labor of a worker is a label of failure. Why does each of the pugs see a hypothetical elephant. Either you are an elephant or a pug. On this historical path, we are pugs and are moving towards the amoeba.

[Bolt cutter]

Even then, a maramoyka saleswoman could talk about workers as “smelly hard workers,” and consider engineers to be beggars.

[tsvetahaki]

Quote: T-100

For a domestic scientist, engineer and technologist, nothing is impossible. And this is without unnecessary pathos - just remember the nuclear and space projects of the Soviet Union.

Well, that's what it's all about, every time. In different articles from different authors. There, in that already distant civilization, the labor of a worker was held in high esteem. In the current fragment of that civilization, the labor of a worker is a label of failure. Why does each of the pugs see a hypothetical elephant. Either you are an elephant or a pug. On this historical path, we are pugs and are moving towards the amoeba.

Somehow people don’t see the difference between the space, nuclear project and what is happening now...
Yes, there is a commonality - it required the creation of MANY new industries. Yes, also a pyramid - in order to make a bomb/fly into space, they had to build the base of a huge pyramid, on top of which there was a bomb/rocket.
BUT
There was no lag. The work proceeded in parallel (or with a minimum 2-year lag) with competitors.
And there were personnel - there was that basis that could train thousands of physicists, engineers... Not to mention finances and (!) salaries.
Well, for some reason, anyone is too lazy to fly into space, bombs are made by true believers, but with chip production - somehow not.
Not to mention that it was not this country and not these people.

[Repellent]

Quote from tsvetahaki

it was not this country and not these people

colors like. There’s also “al” here, aren’t you a couple, by the way?

[tsvetahaki]

Quote: Repellent

Quote from tsvetahaki

it was not this country and not these people

colors like. There’s also “al” here, aren’t you a couple, by the way?

I don't care about women, sorry.

[Jonny_Su]

Well, honestly, the country also cannot produce the Tu-214 due to imported control units. UAC is now engaged in import substitution with the promise to resolve the issue by 2024.
And the MS-21, which has been in development for 15 years and has been flying for 5 years, will go into production. This example shows the real time frame for the implementation of high-tech projects. If we start now, the results will appear in the next decade.

[AA22Helmet]

Actually, military-technical intelligence has existed at all times, as an example, the theft of documentation for the Mirage aircraft, alas, not by us. So 13 tons of paper documentation were taken to an unknown direction. What a job! Or another way: disabling ready-made lithographs, so that they drive away defects. The main thing is to deprive the enemy of an advantage, and what to beat the legs by catching up and spending fabulous sums, it is better to direct a small amount of funds to the destruction of existing samples and manufactured products and that’s all, then there is no need to rush with your own production, do everything thoroughly on the basis of the obtained data. Here, by the way, that nano dust, which was so advertised by Rusnano, the main thing is that it penetrates through the filters, or, well, make a hole, like how our space objects are disabled by “friends”. There are a lot of solutions, the money is scanty, and the effect is simply amazing, fortunately The number of places where all these lithographers produce can be counted on one hand, but smoke and dust smog is a natural-technogenic phenomenon, and even with an admixture of some fluoride compounds.

[Eug]

How does it feel to offend “partners”? No, it’s better to bend harder... maybe
sanctions will be lifted... or at least softened...
I remember an anecdote - a commission at the military registration and enlistment office:
-Where do you want to serve?
-I want to be a pilot
- You can’t pass on health
-Then in air defense
-Hmmmm.....why is that so?
-I won’t fly - and no one will...

[Russian_Ninja]

You can also drop an atomic bomb in this case - then you definitely won’t have to catch up with anyone.
Some nasty ideas, to be honest, just crap so that they don’t develop.
Do corporations lack the capacity to restore production? Or will it take decades?
It is not the machines that work, but the people who make these machines. It is information and knowledge that moves the world, not “lithographers”

[nickname7]

military-technical intelligence has always existed,

The states are sounding the alarm because China has organized a large-scale system of technical and scientific espionage in the Western world.

[Sergey G]

I believe in Russia and our scientists! Everything will definitely work out... but if we whine and moan, we will be trampled. We must not moan, but do it silently.

[Non-fighter]

According to scientists from the Institute of Physics of Microstructures of the Russian Academy of Sciences, domestic technologies are behind the world in lithography resolution by an order of magnitude, and in the density of a two-dimensional pattern on a chip - by two orders of magnitude.

Geometry, school course. In my opinion, class 5 is like that. 10 squared is 100.

[Maks1995]

Well.
There was enough for RUSNANO, There was enough for the Football World Cup, There was enough for the Olympic Games, There was enough for Rogozin and the trampoline projects, There was enough for Boeings and Airbuses, and There was enough for chips with conductors.

Well, for many, in the phrase of the outstanding unsinkable Medvedev (a lover of these Boeings and iPhones) - There is no money, hang in there, good mood and health (not verbatim).

IMHO, in Zelenograd they promise to revive the production of chips and microcircuits. for about 20 years now. Several large projects have already gone bankrupt. And here we go again..

[Vashek]

There was time and there was money. There was, as they said in Prostokvashino, no intelligence and no responsibility for the country. Hence Rusnano and Skolkovo.

[nickname7]

Hence Rusnano

There is an opinion that Rusnano was originally invented as a profanation and to sterilize the money needed for technology, otherwise how to explain that with gigantic financing the office has only losses, debts and zero results. Rusnano is sabotage and sabotage.

[Luenkov]

As ethereal dreams, what would have happened to Russian lithography if the microelectronics industry, and not Rusnano, had received 280 billion rubles at one time? [quote][/quote] Who believed Chubais. How's your father? A couple of people, if only... Why?

[Engineer]

To understand the importance: Zeiss built an entire special optics plant specifically for the needs of the Dutch ASML. They claim that they will learn how to make mirrors for 7-8 nm photolithographs, and this task is not much simpler than launching a man to the Moon.

Zeiss presented a mirror with a reflectivity of 50% in the 7 nm range several years ago. Another thing is that it turned out to be generally unnecessary - the diffraction limit is already close and can be achieved with old sources.

Currently, the Russian institute is working on an X-ray lithograph, which, according to scientists, will be 1,5 times more efficient than imported analogues.

Without analoguenets there is nowhere. Petya is one and a half times better than Vasya without specifying a comparison criterion

Local engineers have come up with a kind of maskless mode for etching microcircuits, which is not inferior in quality to the best foreign models. In terms of price, it generally costs several decades – a Russian unit should cost up to 5 million rubles, while foreign ones cost 10–15 billion.

Quite a victory. Wow, journalists were told that it is possible to make microcircuits without masks, for example, with the same electron beam. And it will be orders of magnitude cheaper. But also orders of magnitude slower. Prototypes are made using similar technologies, and then the series is placed with TSMC.

You just need to find the right manager who can take on such responsibility. So far, unfortunately, no new Kurchatovs, Morozovs and Korolevs are on the horizon.

You just need to sit down and answer relatively simple questions. What exactly is needed and in what quantity?
It has been written many times that a 60 nm process is sufficient for basic needs. Theoretically, Russia has everything for this. Bought from the damned West. But Mikron has not been able to move to 60 nm for ten years, despite the victorious reports that appear from time to time.
For more subtle processes, a “sovereign lithographer” will need its own sources, its own mirrors, its own ultra-precision mechanics, and even more complex operations with masks. No country can do this on its own. We need cooperation. Welcome to the modern world. You can’t really master old technologies, why go into the jungle of new ones?
Although you can always print 5-10 thousand chips a year without masks and talk about Russian achievements.

[nickname7]

You can’t really master old technologies, why go into the jungle of new ones?

It is absolutely necessary to master the full production cycle of chips for consumer electronics for washing machines and auto electronics at 130 nm. And then in this cycle, improve the elements, produce lithographs there from 130nm to 60nm, and the bureaucrats bought the AMD plant without adding a second part to the cycle and the plant is collecting dust somewhere, then there are a bunch of separate parallel projects, to no avail. Intel is gradually improving the technology at its current processor production.

[took the]

Why don't the government and the security council understand the importance of lithography? Are there stupid people there? Or was it poorly explained to them? Why won’t they explain to Putin? No managers will appear! This is what a government campaign should do! Only then will there be success! They spent 50 billion on the Olympics in Sochi and now they are wasting money on all sorts of crap! Money should be spent on lithography, not on sports.

[jdiver]

They probably don’t understand because they don’t understand the danger of having foreign assets or offspring of senators, deputies and other senior officials studying and doing business there. Very incomprehensible. But they are very patriotic on TV.

[Eug]

How many “technology demonstrators” have there been in aviation... And where are the aircraft based on them? My version is that when they deal with a project, they immediately call it a “technology demonstrator”. I don’t mean that there shouldn’t be failures - on the contrary, results will only come after a certain amount of engineering experience, and that necessarily includes negative ones. But it is precisely this (negative engineering experience) that the current management system does not allow us to obtain....

[nickname7]

How many “technology demonstrators” were there in aviation?

But we have the best masters of PR. The so-called SU75 was made into a papier-mâché model, painted and illuminated with flashlights, and now journalists rushed to talk about a missile defense breakthrough by plane, about capturing the market, what kind of missile defense from cardboard?

[vargo]

Don't read the article. The author seems to understand everything at the level of the average person. His level of knowledge about the technological state of different countries, including Russia, will also be indicative. And throughout the entire article one can read sheer skepticism and doubt. The author just wants to doubt everything, and came up with an article for this. He doesn’t want to tell you about the real situation.
For those who want to dive deeper into the nuances, I would recommend specialized telegram channels or watch people like Maxim Gorshenin and the like on YouTube/VK. The analysis of the situation and immersion in the nuances there is many times better than in this article.

[jdiver]

Everything is fine in the article. And even optimistic, because in addition to lithographs, the production of chips requires entire related conglomerates of production, not to mention the creation of qualified personnel for them. Gorshenin is an optimistic guy, his role is such that it is also necessary. And he paid for his optimism a couple of times and then apologized for optimistically advertising those who were doing well, a wonderful awning, and then he himself had to expose either the monitor manufacturers who had soldered their chips into completely foreign monitors just to have them, or the manufacturers of import-substituted chargers in which are nothing of what they advertised to get money from the budget. And this is happening on the patriotic channel. What happens in places where the sunlight of public attention does not reach can be completely completed. The May decrees of Vladimir Vladimirovich will not allow you to lie. Officials have accomplished and overfulfilled everything, import substitution, reporting on successes, filmed on the Zvezda TV channel and others who receive hundreds of billions from the budget a year to show optimism. And the fact that in reality everything is different is because you simply did not fit into the correct reality, according to the precepts of one red-haired figure.

[Evgeny_Sviridenko]

The role of those who are catching up is a so-so role. I already wrote that it is very difficult to catch up only based on the element base. Russia needs to change the very concept of information technology and switch to ternary logic. This will immediately reduce the need for a huge number of processor transistors, and will allow you to do a lot on already available nanometers. Naturally, without reducing efforts to improve its element base.

[Repellent]

Quote: Evgeny_Sviridenko

switch to ternary logic

Yes - No - I don’t know?

cool

[Ivan Seversky]

No country in the world can independently develop and produce all types of electronics industry.
China has adopted a program to allocate 1,4 trillion. $ until 2025 for import substitution in the electronics industry. The results are still far from expected. In Russia this is not possible. The domestic market is 10 times smaller than in China, which excludes the possibility of such large-scale investments in products that will not be competitive in the foreign market in the foreseeable future. A strategic partnership with China is hardly possible: the history of the development of a wide-body airliner is an example of this.

Of course, there are many things that can and should be done at home. Having previously calculated the economic efficiency. It is possible to achieve technological sovereignty only if the level of technological development returns to the level of North Korea.

[Alexander Odintsov]

Until the rooster pecked in the ass, everyone was asleep. No wonder Gaidar said that everything can be bought abroad. Thank God, at least they started doing something!

[16112014nk]

the government intends to allocate 2025 billion rubles by 100

This is clearly not enough for what is needed. Rusnano gave out much more for the slackers.
The USSR did not have as much money as Russia has.
But even with the Soviet careless financial management in the USSR, achievements in science and technology were much higher. There was another, more highly developed civilization.
Without a change in the social system, Russia is unlikely to reach the same level in the near future.
Without at least an urgent replacement of Chemez, Mantura, and Nabibulins, this is completely impossible.

[Romanovski]

But changing the social system in Russia is a taboo....!! Niiiiiiiiiight!!! The oligarchs and that part of the state nomenklatura in Russia that is corrupt and thieving --- will in no way want to sacrifice their “principles”....Only communism (= socialism) of the Chinese or Vietnamese type can really save Russia, and capitalism is leading Russia into the abyss ....

[av58]

ALREADY saved. Enough. You can move to China, Vietnam or North Korea, good luck.

[bk0010]

A few rivets:

Taking the most complex 7nm photolithography process as a starting point

7nm is no longer the most complex; there are more advanced ones. Unfortunately, it’s difficult to talk about specific numbers, because marketers have gotten to the name of the equipment and are casting a shadow over the fence. But 3nm is already there.

then only ASML (Netherlands) and Nikon (Japan) can offer such machines.

The coolest lithographers are only ASML. Canon recently announced the creation of a 5nm lithograph (not the limit for today), but at a price 10 times less than the latest ASML machines (for which there is also a queue), it might turn out interesting.

For a domestic scientist, engineer and technologist, nothing is impossible.

Eat. And more.

[Anton_from_Brest]

What have you heard about microelectronics in Belarus? I'd like to read it. They seem to be doing something too

[shikin]

A few comments on the article:
1. All modern technological processes -7 nm and below - are based on 28 nm technology (and are). Here there is a transition from two-dimensional structures to three-dimensional ones.
2. The problem with the production of chips in Russia is not only in lithographs. There are problems along the entire technological chain: the production of substrates - plates, the production of photoresist - the photosensitive layer, the production of chemicals and equipment for etching, etc. All problems are now being solved, and this also takes time.
3. The news about a maskless lithograph is not entirely correct. Research on a maskless lithograph for chips, as far as I know, has so far reached a dead end (and no one in the world has yet succeeded in this). The maskless lithograph that was recently in the news is not for producing chips. There is not nm, but micron, and it is used to obtain other elements of electronic circuits.
4. Chips using “rough” technology - 130 nm and more - are needed not only by the defense industry. These include various machines, vehicles, automated lines, and commercial equipment - the bulk of chips in the world are produced using such technical processes (and will be produced for a long time). This also includes chips for harsh operating conditions (temperature, vibration, shock, radiation, etc.) - “delicate” technical processes in this regard are much more capricious.
5. And yes, next year the production of the 350 nm lithograph (and all systems) is expected to begin, and from 2025 their mass production will begin, 130 nm - plus a couple more years. So we'll see.

[Tochilka]

And a MEGA remark, the author who does not understand the topic does not understand the difference semiconductor (which is so-and-so material) from microcircuits (essentially a semiconductor device).
How stupid you have to be to get confused in the simplest terms!
No Materials The Micron plant produces, and microcircuits!
95 comments were written “sofa” and no one paid attention.

the article itself is nothing. a set of facts in the world of the galaxy.

[Fintiflushkin]

Well, we finally have an understanding on this issue.
Two points that came to mind.
1. Why, without having done anything yet, release air loudly, “it will be 1,5 times more effective than imported analogues.”
I already want to beat everyone up about “algovnet” and the like. The ridicule will simply be based on the results of all these “analogues”.
2. Reach with your mind the need to have your own lithographs (read - a developed electronics industry) - this does not require high intelligence.
About the fact that there are complete fools at the top - let's discard this nonsense.
But someone lobbied for the collapse and destruction of the electronics industry?
And we’re not talking about 30 years ago, but let’s take the last 10 years.
Then it happened that with the help of military correspondent Senya Pegov, a high-ranking mole was uncovered, leaking the location of our warehouses and sending our guys into ambushes.
Where were the counterintelligence agents?
If this continues, some “mole” will ruin the Russian lithographer’s project and lead him down the wrong path into an ambush.

[kakvastam]

But will our state be able to protect scientists who are potentially dangerous to the enemy?
After all, they are all known by name, and the history of the murders of key specialists stretches back to the nineties.
Taking into account the millions of migrants, whom only the lazy would not disguise themselves as, it will be possible to ensure safety only in closed cities, but not many people want to live in them.
So there is little reason even for cautious optimism.

[Russian_Ninja]

I think it’s easier to buy scientists rather than kill them. And whether the scientist himself wants to be a “bird in a golden cage” is also a question

[kakvastam]

It’s expensive and difficult to buy; it’s much easier to stab someone in the entrance or break your head on the street.
Someone, of course, will be lured away.

[Mikhail3]

As ethereal dreams, what would have happened to Russian lithography if the microelectronics industry, and not Rusnano, had received 280 billion rubles at one time?

Fruitless dreams) Well, what would happen? Never mind. Just over the hill, besides Chubais and the rest, there would be another group of honest officials lurking around. The question is not only, and not even so much, in the allocation of money, but in the ideology of its use.
In a certain country, a scientist, an expert in planimetry, came to leadership in the Ministry of Education. And how did it end? The scientist was approached by her subordinates, who had been using the ministry’s funds for decades and generously sharing those funds with “whoever needed them.” And they told her - either you sign what is necessary, or those strong guys over there... this... And what was the scientist to do? Planimetry does not save you from organized crime, it’s been verified) And the security forces don’t save you either. Because they also receive something from someone.
So organized crime groups have no problem completely gaining the upper hand over the various sciences there. Just think, peaks of knowledge, engineering masterpieces... The main question is how everything is arranged in terms of transferring the share to “whoever needs it”! Here is a scientific problem that significantly exceeds in importance all of Newton's laws and Einstein's theories combined!
In principle, you can hit the organized criminal groups that are raking money out of our microelectronics. But this will not solve the problem! It's even worse! The question is ideological. We “don’t have” an ideology, but that’s the question. Who will be in charge? Who will DECIDE? Engineer? Scientist?! Never! The close-knit caste of “Moscow managers” will never, ever allow this to happen! Nowhere! Never!! This will mean that the main ones are not those who skillfully steal money and share it with others like them, but those who Do the Work!! This cannot be allowed. NEVER

[kakvastam]

A close-knit caste of “Moscow managers”

They are now "St. Petersburg".
“Moscow” at least did the job and stole, “St. Petersburg” only steal. Optimization involves eliminating unnecessary links.

[Mikhail3]

Quote: kakvastam

"Moscow" at least did the job and stole,

Seriously?)) The 90s belong to the “Moscow” ones. Did they “get the job done” then?! Affairs...

[av58]

Which ones are needed, St. Petersburg ones? It was they, and not the Moscow ones, who ruled the country since the 90s.

[Bayun]

There is no need to invent anything. You just need to “be able to repeat” what A.I. Shokin did. in the middle of the last century.

Point 1. Re-establishment of the Ministry of Electronic Industry of the Russian Federation
Point 2. Inclusion of MEP in priority development

The experience of substantive creation of a successful industry in Russia in modern realities can easily be borrowed from the Ministry of Communications and Rosatom.

Back in the 90s, there were developments in lithographs using synchrotron radiation. Well, you shouldn’t forget about epitaxy.

The lag in the miniaturization of technology can easily be compensated for by mathematics based on ternary logic, obtaining the same at 90nm and even more powerful than what foreigners work at 7nm.

“Hardware” and even “software” for technological lines can first be taken from the PRC, under a “fraternal” agreement on the transfer back of “science” using new methods, which ours - if they get involved again - will certainly arise.

[Mikhail3]

Quote: Bayun

There is no need to invent anything. You just need to “be able to repeat” what A.I. Shokin did. in the middle of the last century.

Point 1. Re-establishment of the Ministry of Electronic Industry of the Russian Federation

Brilliant. That's exactly how Comrade. Shokin destroyed the development of the electronics industry of the USSR, presenting the country in electronics literally “with his pants down.” Under him, all the sprouts of independent computer modeling, all domestic chip production laboratories were successively destroyed, and all “development” at the same Micron was reduced to layer-by-layer grinding of Japanese and American chips, with a maximum efficiency of about 60%. Microelectronics was destroyed back in the USSR, and precisely by Comrade Shokin, as a prominent representative of those forces that replaced development with milking money and benefits from the budget.

[4UMA]

And writing reports with attached photographs?

[Corvair]

Completely stop state support for ALL religious organizations - you'll already have to scrape together some money. It seems like we still have a secular state; those who need it, let them support their confessions with private donations; if they don’t need it, let them put it in a museum.

[Corvair]

Completely stop state support for ALL religious organizations - you'll already have to scrape together some money. It seems like we still have a secular state; those who need it, let them support their confessions with private donations; if they don’t need it, let them put it in a museum.

[Mazunga]

well, lawyers were more important to the country and not engineers (((we have Finnish sensors in meteorology, unless of course M-49, but that’s really sad then, and a meteorologist is an engineer, by the way, here’s 22-35 tyr, the level of a security guard in Magnit, only that one has a replacement work and the meteorologist has a five-day week))) well, which of them understood life better?)))

[4UMA]

We are a star, calm down...there is only one way out, cutting off the corners, and for this we need to disperse all the managers and recruit academic practitioners, of whom there are very few and will not be around anymore, since schools also have the right managers...do you even understand the scale of the problem !? We are in the ASS, what kind of managers are we? Manage streams of shit!?

[Reklastik]

And this is without unnecessary pathos - just remember the nuclear and space projects of the Soviet Union.

- which were preceded by the creation of a universal system of mass, high-quality and free higher and professional education. And not a snap of fingers - “give an atomic bomb just now”!

[Galleon]

The breakthrough technology exists at the laboratory level and will require several years of complex engineering before it can be transformed into a working prototype.

Someone finally remove the d.b. from writing articles! Explain to the author that the technology cannot be breakthrough, because in engineering, it dryly and boringly describes the PRODUCTION PROCESS - it is not possible.
And we’ve already had enough revolutions, even in production processes. A revolution in production, where there should be experience and calculation, is stupidity and defective!

[AlexWar]

At one time I bought a book on industrial robots, so I think we should move in this direction if there are not enough workers

[jdiver]

After all, robots are also assembled and maintained by workers. And first, the working brains design, test and debug. There are no pens, as the joke goes, and there are no cookies. I mean, robots.

[pettabyte]

If we take the most complex 7nm photolithography process as a starting point, then only ASML (Netherlands) and Nikon (Japan) can offer such machines. Moreover, the Japanese have very big reservations.

There's a real demand for a performance with the demolition of that factory, let's say we put a warehouse with saltpeter next to it, the effect will be almost the same as that of weak nuclear weapons.

[runway-1]

Part of the problem can be solved by diplomatic mail, stuffing parcels from Europe and the USA with scarce microcircuits and chips, but this is a temporary measure.

Here everything is not very rosy and rather unpromising. Recently, a group of people from “here” were detained in the United States, who purchased and transported these products to the Russian Federation in a roundabout way. The control is very tight...

[- = SADKO = -]

Hehe, the effectiveness of early Soviet management was ensured by the institution of personal responsibility...
... so I wouldn't have any illusions today :-)
There are a lot of good things in educational institutions, but no more, because like “effective managers,” they care about the long process, not the end result. Well, you can understand them about modern layouts, they even have benefits...

[Cossack of the Kubanskodon]

the bald maize farmer said that microelectronics is the machinations of capitalism, and he trashed this matter......he also trashed the development of new art systems, he said, it’s booming to hit the government with rockets

[Dimm588]

Everyone says we need our own, but there are only a few countries producing chips, in a normal, relatively healthy world, no one would even think about producing chips in Russia, it is unprofitable and Russia does not have a huge market of its own like China, and China with its own budgets and market is also far from a leader, it’s strange to blame Russia here. And while some people boast about 7nm chips from the West, most technology in the world uses about 200 nm, so the 90nm working option is a good option.

[acetophenone]

For a domestic scientist, engineer and technologist, nothing is impossible. And this is without unnecessary pathos - just remember the nuclear and space projects of the Soviet Union. A country with constantly catching up technological development was able not only to stand on par with the world hegemons, but also to get ahead for years.

Lies do not make the author of the material look good.
We live in ANOTHER country. From the word "absolutely". Guys, don't lie to yourself. What the USSR could do, Russia will never be able to do. Another time. Other conditions. Another people.
Once. Just once, do exactly what you promised, exactly when you promised. Not more. Not less. Not earlier. Not later than. Not the way it will turn out.
But in lithography, it is not the flight of imagination of engineers and the daring of suppliers that is needed. And accuracy. I would even say more: ACCURACY.
So it goes...

[Romanovski]

I agree...Accuracy and HEALTHY COMPETITION are needed....I’ll say more: If in the Russian Federation they don’t start modernizing in the near future (to put it mildly...) THE SOCIAL SYSTEM in the image and likeness (precisely in the likeness, and not a blind copy... ) Chinese social system, strict (that’s right...) order and real competition, then Russia will not have a breakthrough at all...

[tolancop]

Quote: moscowp

Beria was not a manager, he was the country's highest official and political figure who oversaw the atomic project

Is the curator not a manager? From my point of view, it is the manager and with the qualifications as a manager that is higher than the person being supervised.

[Festus]

The question is not how expensive chips will be, but how costly not having them will be.

[Danila Rastorguev]

The article is not complete nonsense, but what do managers have to do with results? Wouldn't our great-grandfathers have made workers and soldiers, and what would Suvorov or Kutuzov have done? Alice is enough for management. And to win you need extras like soldiers, workers, engineers. From which various inventors, scientists and generals and Beria appear. And for demography, we don’t need to plug another hole in science, but look for a social compromise so that people continue to want to reproduce in the Russian Federation and inhabit its land

[S.Z.]

Quote from Sanktperburg1812

Producing chips is half the battle. They need markets. The domestic Russian market is too small.

Over time, the products of Intel, AMD and NVidia will have to be replaced; this is a very good market even within the country. But if the processors are competitive, then there will be enough buyers on the foreign market.

Now the difficulties are exactly what the Author said - we simply cannot do it.

In the 80s of the last century, the USSR lagged behind world manufacturers by 5 years - if we talk about the production of processors. Then we followed the path of blind copying.

IMHO, the situation is worse now.

[bk0010]

Quote: S.Z.

Over time, the products of Intel, AMD and NVidia will have to be replaced; this is a very good market even within the country.

Within the country it is absolutely insufficient. Seriously. The price of a processor manufactured using a similar technical process will increase by an order of magnitude (10 times) at best. Simply because the huge initial costs will be spread over a population of 140 million people, not 7 billion.

[anclevalico]

If you start asking harshly for results after allocating finances, then everything will work out. But this is fantastic, as we understand it. Therefore, let's continue to fantasize...

[Danila Rastorguev]

How tough is that? Peter the Great put accountants on a chain under the supervision of soldiers until the work was completed. However, the first balance sheet was recognized as satisfactory only years after his death... And the accountants were paid both under him and after him monthly and regularly for decades. Do you want to take scientific peaks with a cavalry charge? Eh...

[barkonaut]

Manager - some kind of diagnosis. There are many of them, and these are clerks. There are not enough designers, i.e. Managers. I think it’s a matter of specialized training and synthetic thinking. Innate leadership qualities are a must.

[AdAstra]

"For example, ultra-precise X-ray optics on ruthenium-beryllium mirrors."
I’ve heard and read about this since 2000, but unfortunately it’s still there. And that's it, "Currently, the Russian institute is working on an X-ray lithograph, which, according to scientists, will be 1,5 times more efficient than imported analogues." All this time they remain messages.

[S.Z.]

Quote: anclevalico

If you start asking harshly for results after allocating finances, then everything will work out.

From whom? The production of processors is a business, people do what will bring profit. It is very doubtful that there will be any profit from the production of processors “in this life.” It is even more doubtful that this profit will be greater than from the sale of raw materials or, in general, from the sale of anything else.

[Jan]

It’s a strange article, however... just like the position of the author of the article... if you paraphrase and slightly exaggerate it, you can hear: “where are you Russian heroes, go out to defend your homeland”... It’s a little strange to hear this after “we’ll buy everything” because We have timber, oil, and gas... but apparently it didn’t work out or we were busy with something else, apparently more important. And now the question is like in that joke "... what to do, what to do..."?! In my uninitiated opinion, it’s certainly not worth looking for new “managers”!!! However, they will steal! We need a person who knows the topic and is an enthusiast of micro/nano electronics!!! But have these “dinosaurs” of a bygone era (who didn’t understand: the USSR) still survive in the vastness of Russia, that is the question!

[Anatoly Popov]

What goes around comes around.

[FRoman1984]

The fish rots from the head. Someone created Rusnano and appointed Chubais to lead it.
And as a result, this office has not created anything significant in all this time. The debt as of October 2023 is 95 billion rubles. These are the “Stalins” in power now.

[S.Z.]

Quote: bk0010

Quote: S.Z.

Over time, the products of Intel, AMD and NVidia will have to be replaced; this is a very good market even within the country.

Within the country it is absolutely insufficient. Seriously. The price of a processor manufactured using a similar technical process will increase by an order of magnitude (10 times) at best. Simply because the huge initial costs will be spread over a population of 140 million people, not 7 billion.

:) In the absence of competition, too high a price at the first stage should not be an obstacle, and at the second stage you can enter the foreign market - however, you will have to release processors for existing instruction systems in order to achieve compatibility.

The point is whether we are part of the open market or not. In the first case, the matter is, of course, hopeless, but it looks like we are moving towards the second option.

[Kostadinov]

Equipment for “printing” microcircuits is produced by a few companies in the world, and it is very easy for Americans to monitor the traffic of scarce components.

Such equipment and materials for microcircuits were produced in the past (until 1990) in the GDR. Zeiss is an East German company.
Today, in addition to Holland and Japan, China, North Korea (North Korea) are doing it, and India and Iran are very likely capable of doing it.

[Locksmith]

The author is generally aware that the laser and all the technology for ASML, including filters and mirrors, were developed by Russia with US money, which is why they put their paw on it. But these developers have been living and working in China for several years and are developing similar technology for China with its money.

[Locksmith]

The author is generally aware that the laser and all the technology for ASML, including filters and mirrors, were developed by Russia with US money, which is why they put their paw on it. But these developers have been living and working in China for several years and are developing similar technology for China with its money.

[Ilgizl]

Here we should first start making construction equipment, cars, trains and planes with complete localization, and only then take on the complex ones.

[av58]

While “...unfortunately, no new Kurchatovs, Morozovs and Korolevs are on the horizon...”, NEW BERIA IS NEEDED!

[Tank destroyerSU-100]

Yes, and our people, I remember, danced in a squat, they say, let’s reject factory slavery, we’ll all be businessmen, we’ll drive around in Mercs. I did not listen to the voices of those who tried to appeal to reason that this does not happen. Well, and then the people hit the tables so hard that bloody snot flew in different directions. And a kick in the ass to a landfill, into a ditch.
So, IMHO, now the rulers have all the hope that the Chinese have already reached almost the same level as the pin.dos with Taiwan-Korea-Holland and will share microelectronics.

[DienBienPhu]

Cooperation with China in the semiconductor industry is the only way

[mult-65]

At one time, the temporary detention center screwed up with genetics and cybernetics. So what is the demand from GDP for nanoelectronics? Tea is far from being the Leader.