Expedition to the ancestors. When ethnography comes to the rescue

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Expedition to the ancestors. When ethnography comes to the rescue


Esau was a skilled hunter
man of the fields,
and Jacob was a quiet man,
living among the tents.

Genesis 25:27

Migrants and migrations. Today we will interrupt our story about the events of the ancient stories humanity, in order to refer to what took place quite recently, some 70 years ago. And the reason for this is that in comments to past materials, a number of our readers made statements that the people of that distant time were only thinking about what they could eat. That is, they say, they simply didn’t have enough time for “culture,” because “the hungry belly is very deaf to art.” However, is this not really the case?



Already ancient paintings in caves of the Paleolithic era prove that people already had enough time for this “useless activity”, that while someone was hunting there, someone else was painting mammoths in the cave, and there were also those who mixed paints for him and “held a candle.” However, we are not destined to find out how everything was there in the Paleolithic.

But we can find out how it could have been already in the Bronze Age by turning to the data of ethnography - a science that studies peoples-ethnic groups and other ethnic formations, as well as their origin (ethnogenesis), settlement, and what is especially important for us in this case – their cultural and everyday characteristics. That is, to put it simply, you need to look at how peoples live today who are at approximately the same level of development as people of the era of megalithic cultures, as well as of later times.

We will have quite a large choice here, but we will go to the island of Borneo or, as it is now called in Indonesia, Kalimantan, where two peoples lived and live, the Dayaks and the Punans. Moreover, the famous French zoologist Pierre Pfeffer, the author of the most interesting book “Bivouacs in Borneo,” which was published in the USSR in Russian by the Mysl publishing house, will tell us about them.


Pierre-Pfeffer (far right) and members of his expedition along with an Indonesian policeman (in uniform)

And it so happened that Pierre Pfeffer was part of the French expedition in 1962–1963. visited the island of Borneo, and in this book he described everything that he saw and experienced. Now I don’t remember how they bought it for me, but only then I asked more than once to read it to me, and my mother read it to me. So already as a child I learned it almost by heart, and then, as an adult, I re-read it several times.


Dayak houses in the village. Photo from Pierre Pfeffer's book "Bivuacs in Borneo"

Pfeffer caught and dissected local animals, but an equally important part of his work was to go hunting and supply the expedition with meat. And, of course, he actively participated in the life of the Dayaks and described their life and way of life in great detail.

Briefly, and even in relation to our topic, we can say that at the time when he came to them, the Dayaks lived in the very early Iron Age. Moreover, even in the 1950s they combined metal tools with stone ones.

Their agriculture was slash-and-burn. They cut down a piece of the jungle, waited for the trees to dry out, and either cut them down into planks or simply burned them. And then they planted rice there, which was the main food product, and they also made vodka from it. They also grew bananas, ate young bamboo shoots, and sowed corn, sago, cassava, cucumbers, pumpkins, and millet.

Pets: dogs, chickens, pigs. The latter were not much different from wild boars, except that they lived among people. In addition, the Dayaks lived by hunting and fishing. The fact is that their villages were located along the banks of rivers, which were the only acceptable road through the jungle.


The Dayaks make plates from bamboo trunks. Photo from Pierre Pfeffer's book "Bivuacs in Borneo"

The houses are communal, 100–200 m long, and can accommodate up to 50 families of 5–6 people. Houses on stilts made of ironwood, walls made of bamboo, roofs made of palm leaves.

Next to it is a barn of the same design. Initially, the villages were surrounded by a high fence made of bamboo trunks, since the Dayaks constantly fought among themselves. But Pfeffer no longer found these fences.

Tools and weapon they had the most primitive things: a blowpipe - a sarbakan, which fired an arrow poisoned with cobra venom, a spear with a bronze, copper or iron tip and a traditional mandou sword.

The hardest work for them was cutting down trees and hewing boards from them for houses. They hewed only two boards from one trunk of a thick tropical tree. They could hollow out a solid wooden pirogue 20–30 m from it.


Heads of Punan - inhabitants of the central regions of Borneo, cut off by "sea Dayaks" from the coast

In the past, the Dayaks followed strange traditions. So, not a single Dayak could get married without presenting his severed head to the bride! It doesn't matter men, women or children. The main thing is that from a foreign, hostile tribe. Therefore, intertribal enmity caused by such “headhunting” did not subside there for a very long time. The heads were dried, smoked and stored as heirlooms.

The last time there was an outbreak of “cutthroatism” was during the Second World War, when the Japanese paid the Dayaks for the heads of whites, and the whites for the heads of the Japanese, but since the Americans and British paid more, the Dayaks chose their side. True, getting married has become more difficult! If previously they demanded one head, now a warrior who had even twenty dried Japanese heads was no longer valued as much as before.


Europeans also collected these terrible souvenirs. Horatio Robley with his collection of severed heads

And so, judging by archaeological data, similar houses (but not made of iron wood, of course!) were built during the Chalcolithic era in Scandinavia, and in Poland, and in other places. Or houses were stuck to one another if they were built from stone or clay bricks.

And their economy, judging by the bones and grain finds, was similar. And they hunted in the same way. So this is how successful hunting was among the Dayaks and how successful it could have been among the people of that time. It should be emphasized that the Dayaks hunted large animals exclusively with spears, that is, in general, the same way as their distant ancestors.

By the way, megalithic buildings have also been discovered in Borneo. Only there, as we see, the development of civilization proceeded very, very slowly.

Pfeffer himself hunted with a Brno carbine of 8,57 mm caliber, and the Dayaks willingly invited him to hunt, since he always gave half of the carcass and the head to the Dayak accompanying him. Their hunt was not always successful, and sometimes, having gone into the forest in the morning, they returned back only at six o’clock in the evening, having walked more than 10 km with parts of the carcass... 50 kg each, which they had to drag on their backs!

Then he and his comrades ate meat for two days, and then it ran out, and then they had to eat rice or buy village chickens. When he came with prey, the Dayaks immediately came to him and asked for meat, but not very much. Moreover, this was how they addressed everyone who caught wild boar, so that everyone in the village ate the meat, although sometimes there was very little of it, and sometimes they literally gorged themselves on it.


This is what the Dayaks looked like somewhere in the early 50s of the last century. National Museum of Collectibles and Culture, Amsterdam

Here is his story about one of his meetings with a group of Dayak hunters:

“Before reaching Long Kemuat, we landed on a rocky island, where a group of hunters had already gathered. There were only three large boars for twenty people, and while some were gutting them and cutting them into small pieces, others were whittling thin bamboo rods...
Then everyone began to put pieces of meat on them, carefully making sure that everyone got a piece of heart, liver and lard.
As a result, there was a pile of skewers in front of us, which were then divided equally among everyone present.
The skewers were wrapped in reed leaves, after which the hunters jumped into the pirogues and went to their families.”


Dayak hunter with a boar on his back

Of course, Borneo is tropical. There were wild boars, deer, rhinoceroses, crocodiles, panthers - whoever was there.

But in Europe there were plenty of all kinds of animals. The same wild boars, deer, elk, roe deer, aurochs and bison, wild goats, rams, saigas in the steppes. Yes, who was not in her forests then? There were a lot of birds! In particular, the first settlers in America wrote that they sent a boy with a stick into the forest to catch birds for dinner, and he, having found a tree where black grouse were sleeping in a row, simply beat them with a stick, and always managed to kill a couple of them before the rest flew away.

They fired cannons at flocks of wood pigeons, these flocks were so large. And look how many deer heads with antlers are on display in the knightly castles of the Czech Republic and Germany. There are also records there of how many different animals their owners caught.

But there were also annual migrations of animals...

So in Borneo, twice a year, in July-August and December-January, wild boars migrate en masse from north to south Borneo. They travel in small groups or herds, sometimes numbering several hundred animals. At the same time, they always follow the same paths, and cross rivers in certain places. It is clear that the Dayaks know these places and kill them en masse there.

As soon as the news spreads through the villages that “boars are swimming,” the male population immediately abandons all their activities and, armed with spears and ancient muskets loaded from the muzzle, hides on the shore, opposite the bank from where the pigs come.
Single animals are allowed through, but as soon as a herd enters the water, the hunters sit in the pirogues and spear the boars. Wounded animals and corpses are carried away by the current, and further down the river they are picked up by other hunters and even women and children.


Young Dayak beauty with elongated earlobes

The first boars are eaten whole. But then only a layer of fat is removed from them, and the rest... is thrown into the water. Well, the lard is drowned and kept in reserve, pouring it into jugs, bamboo pipes or canisters. The Dayaks used some of this lard themselves, but most of it was sent to the coast, where it was sold to Chinese traders at a thousand francs per twenty liters.

And there was so much of this lard that in December 1956 - January 1957, residents of the village of Long Pelbana on Kayan even caulked several large pies, placed them on stands and filled them to the brim with rendered lard.

The dead boars were thrown into the bay by the river current, where their corpses attracted many sharks and crocodiles. And they, decomposing in the sun, poisoned everything around with their miasma, so the coastal inhabitants went to war against the forest Dayaks to force them to stop beating the wild boars, and government intervention was required to stop this war.

And who can say whether the same thing did not happen in our distant past, when there were few people in Europe, but, on the contrary, there were many animals?!

And also there in Borneo lived the Punan tribes - hunter-gatherers, and Pierre Pfeffer also went to them and lived among them.

They are still engaged in hunting, collecting wild fruits and dammar resin, which they exchange for grain and tobacco. They hunt monkeys, wild boars, deer, bears, panthers, rhinoceroses and game birds. Women also collect wild sago fruits.

In hunting they use the same blow pipes, spears, traps, traps. They live in forests in huts and have no permanent settlements.


Dayaks today (2008 photo)

That is, in front of them is nothing more than a piece of our past.

And here’s what’s interesting: the same Punans eat much worse than the Dayaks, but they are engaged in wood carving and music (!), they have enough time to get a tattoo and rings in their ears.

So it is unlikely that our distant ancestors, both in Asia and in Europe, lived worse than the Dayaks and Punans. This means that they had enough time for absolutely everything, and not just for hunting and eating!
66 comments
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  1. +6
    28 October 2023 05: 56
    Excellent article, you motivate me to say and write something too.
    1. +1
      28 October 2023 15: 55
      Quote: Andobor
      Excellent article, you motivate me to say and write something too.

      Yes, the article is good, I support it. It just caught my eye (well, don’t judge strictly, it really caught my eye), which does not detract from the dignity of the article:
      And the reason for this is that in comments to past materials, a number of our readers made statements that the people of that distant time were only thinking about what they could eat. That is, they say, they simply didn’t have enough time for “culture,” because “the hungry belly is very deaf to art.” However, is this not really the case?
      And then further in the article it’s about culture and wall painting smile
      In the past, the Dayaks followed strange traditions. So, not a single Dayak could get married without presenting his severed head to the bride! It doesn't matter men, women or children. The main thing is that from a foreign, hostile tribe. Therefore, intertribal enmity caused by such “headhunting” did not subside there for a very long time. The heads were dried, smoked and stored as heirlooms.
      well, plus photos of culture. Well, what is also a layer of culture. wink Having read the first paragraphs, I actually expected to see something from a different area of ​​culture. winked Well, okay, that’s just me, I read the article with pleasure!
  2. +13
    28 October 2023 06: 28
    Pfeffer himself hunted with a Brno carbine of 8,57 mm caliber

    Vyacheslav Olegovich, correct me. Caliber 8 mm. Cartridge 8x57 I. In those years - a very popular hunting cartridge.
    The carbine is most likely ZBROJOVKA BRNO MODEL 21F, also very popular in those years.



    Interesting detail. From 1934 to 1939, Pierre Pfeffer, a famous zoologist, studied at a Moscow school (his mother worked as a correspondent in Moscow) and was very active in the circle of young naturalists.
    1. +5
      28 October 2023 07: 10
      Quote from Frettaskyrandi
      Cartridge 8x57 I.

      I'll know, thanks! It was just written that way in the book. And I didn't change anything.
      1. +7
        28 October 2023 12: 11
        It was just written that way in the book. And I didn't change anything.

        One more thing. Pfeffer was on an expedition to Borneo and the Lesser Sunda Islands from 1955 to 1957. And in 1963 he wrote his first book - Bivouacs à Bornéo. The translation was published in the USSR already in 1964, but was reduced by at least twenty percent. For what reasons is unclear. Usually in the USSR works that were considered ideologically dubious by reviewers were shortened.
        From personal communication with such persons, I can say that these individuals were worthless in terms of knowledge of the subject under review, but they knew the original language. Therefore, it is almost impossible to determine reduction criteria.
    2. +5
      28 October 2023 07: 15
      Quote from Frettaskyrandi
      Interesting detail. From 1934 to 1939, Pierre Pfeffer, a famous zoologist, studied at a Moscow school (his mother worked as a correspondent in Moscow) and was very active in the circle of young naturalists.

      +++++++++++++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      1. +6
        28 October 2023 16: 27
        Interesting detail. From 1934 to 1939, Pierre Pfeffer, a famous zoologist, studied at a Moscow school

        This is something else - immediately after arriving in Moscow, little Pierre was sent to kindergarten, where he learned the Russian language perfectly. School came later. Yes
        1. +7
          28 October 2023 16: 49
          And his mother, Polish Maria Beilin, came to Soviet Moscow with her child for a very simple reason - her uncle, the famous Polish communist Maximilian Walecki, who spent half his life in tsarist prisons, emigrated to Moscow in 1919 and occupied a prominent position in the Central Committee of the Comintern. It was to him that Maria and her child went after an unsuccessful marriage to the Frenchman Adolph Pfeffer. Their Moscow life ended in 1937. when her uncle Valetsky was arrested and soon shot. The Poles denied the revolutionary's niece their citizenship, and the USSR did the same, but as a relative of an “enemy of the people.” And Beilin and her son were forced to go to France, of which her son Pierre was de jure considered a citizen by his father. It is noteworthy that the future famous French ornithologist and traveler had to learn French there, since the boy spoke only Russian and Polish.
        2. +4
          28 October 2023 19: 23
          immediately after arriving in Moscow, little Pierre was sent to kindergarten

          Seven years is not that small.
          1. +6
            28 October 2023 20: 54
            Well, not seven, but only his seventh year - he was born on December 6, 1927.
            By the way, a couple of weeks ago there was a discussion here about my earliest childhood memories. Some people remember themselves from the age of 3-5, and some even earlier. I find it difficult to give an exact answer to this, but what remains in my memory are the bushes of multi-colored cosmos in front of the entrance to the nursery-garden, to which I was taken from three to seven years old.

            Beautiful flowers, I keep dreaming of planting them near my house, but I don’t know if they will take root in our North Caucasian climate
            1. +6
              28 October 2023 21: 09
              these are bushes of colorful cosmos
              We called them “French chamomile”; they grew in the front garden in front of the Orenburg Medical Railway School, where my mother worked. I remember from preschool age, on September 1, the school director gave the entire front garden to the employees for plunder for bouquets for the school.
  3. +3
    28 October 2023 06: 34
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

    Apparently, the book is interesting.
    There are certain questions regarding terminology.

    In particular, sago is usually obtained from the pith of cycads or sago palms.
    The strobili of cycads could probably also be collected.

    As for the wild boars, that's interesting. Golding's Lord of the Flies comes to mind.

    How easy was it for a person to feed himself?
    1. +4
      28 October 2023 07: 11
      Quote from Korsar4
      Golding's Lord of the Flies comes to mind.

      One of my favorite books when I was young. "Kill the pig, cut its throat!"
      1. +3
        28 October 2023 07: 15
        I didn't read it too early. But it is memorable.
        And “The Descendants” is also an interesting book.
    2. +5
      28 October 2023 07: 14
      Quote from Korsar4
      There are certain questions regarding terminology.

      You know, I didn’t change anything in the text of the book. I rewrote it stupidly, looking at Advego Plagiarism... when it became 82% and the computer said that “the text is original,” I didn’t write any more.
      1. +5
        28 October 2023 07: 41
        There were interesting books from the Mysl publishing house. But now I look a little more strictly at the formulations in the area in which I understand.

        Although, of course, you can find fault with any work.
        1. +5
          28 October 2023 08: 10
          Quote from Korsar4
          I look a little more strictly at the wording in the area in which I understand.

          It would be strange if it were otherwise.
    3. +7
      28 October 2023 08: 37
      How easy was it for a person to feed himself?

      Judging by the piles of bones in the parking lots, it’s quite easy with skill. For animals in those days were simply not counted. But the whole family can eat some elk or bison for quite a long time. In addition, even Neanderthals, judging by their tooth enamel, quite consumed all kinds of vegetation, especially medicinal ones. Like chamomile or willow bark, which you really can’t just eat. On the coast they also ate fish and sea creatures. And these are Neanderthals, Upper Paleolithic! It is obvious that our ancestors had an even more varied diet, catching on occasion every little thing such as birds and hares, and hamsters, everything that grew nearby..
      1. +7
        28 October 2023 09: 01
        Quite easy once you get the hang of it.
        Exactly! A couple of weeks ago, I came across material about a Russian-Kazakh experiment on cutting up a horse carcass with Neolithic tools. For six hours, four people toiled over the innocent murdered woman. Moreover, people who repeatedly held a flint scraper in their hands.
        Hello, Pavel!
        1. +7
          28 October 2023 10: 32
          Good day! hi

          Well, I don’t know - in our youth, when we wandered around the Sayan Mountains with archaeologists, we also tried this. A flint flake cuts meat quite well. And obsidian is just like a razor. Sinews and bones are, of course, much worse. But it still cuts.

          There’s another trick there - if you make a Neolithic tool with micro-retouching, then it works worse for cutting than a banal chip! If you manage to chop off an edge of sufficient length, the meat can be cut easily. That’s why I’ve always been amazed by, say, Clovis-type points - in my experience, they are less effective, and require an order of magnitude more labor.. Perhaps it was due to the lack of decent material; after all, there isn’t a good piece of flint lying right under your feet?
          1. +4
            28 October 2023 11: 00
            Clovis has a limited competitive base. They had the opportunity to wriggle out.
          2. 0
            7 November 2023 10: 08
            The kinetic energy of the landing strike is greater than the energy of the hand strike. And most importantly, the smooth tip does not give a great pain effect that paralyzes the muscles. Stone tips could not always overcome bones (crush them), so the pain shock was important.
      2. +4
        28 October 2023 09: 55
        Elk or bison can be eaten as long as the meat is preserved.

        And for those who are close to the top of the nutrition pyramid, the food supply is important.

        The theory in which bison significantly interfered with the growth of forests has a right to exist.
        1. +9
          28 October 2023 10: 28
          Elk or bison can be eaten as long as the meat is preserved.

          Methods of preserving meat have been known since the early Paleolithic. In addition, the human body worked like a boa constrictor. If you get too drunk, you might as well go hungry. Judging by modern tribes, spending several days without food is quite an ordinary situation for them.

          I remember the notes of some white hunter in Africa. They killed the elephant there and only took the tusks. And immediately the entire neighboring village came to the carcass. So - they devoured him whole overnight!! Like bugs crawling with puffy bellies, they barely moved their legs - but they ate them... I think none of us can handle even a third of such a meat portion. And this is only a joy...
          1. +2
            29 October 2023 00: 25
            Apparently. This is the book "The Hunter" by John Hunter.
        2. +6
          28 October 2023 12: 11
          Good day for an honest company!
          Quote from Korsar4
          Elk or bison can be eaten as long as the meat is preserved.

          And for those who are close to the top of the nutrition pyramid, the food supply is important.

          The theory in which bison significantly interfered with the growth of forests has a right to exist.

          Along the wire, elk and bison, you also need to kill them, before the appearance of firearms, the task is not easy, even today I don’t know what is better to meet an elk or a bear in the forest. In summer and autumn it is easier to “agree” with the latter than with the elk.
          Regarding “conservation” issues, within my hometown there are at least two “dipholes” where ice is found all year round. Essentially a finished glacier. Plus salt outputs. Karst caves (sinkholes) of the Urals were probably used as “goldeners”. Since not many permanent settlements of primitive people have been found within their boundaries, but hunting and temporary ones, on the contrary.

          Big failure - Olenyi Ruchii Park, Sverdlovsk region.
          1. +4
            28 October 2023 13: 04
            Almost the same thoughts in my head.
            There are plenty of moose in the Moscow region. Although the number fluctuates.
            And there are many roads - it’s impossible to cross the ring roads. So they eat whatever they find.
            1. +4
              28 October 2023 18: 06
              Quote from Korsar4
              Almost the same thoughts in my head.
              There are plenty of moose in the Moscow region. Although the number fluctuates.
              And there are many roads - it’s impossible to cross the ring roads. So they eat whatever they find.

              An encounter with a moose on the road is a hole in the family budget of no less than £XNUMX (including car repairs).
              I remember the suffering of a friend who met a hare at ten and lost both bumpers!!!
              1. +4
                28 October 2023 20: 40
                Several times there were such cases very close.

                At night, for example, we were driving from the Ugra NP through the Kaluga region. The colleague who was driving really remembered it.
                1. +4
                  29 October 2023 03: 56
                  Good morning Sergey, I don’t care about moose. I'll try to post photos of the crazy rabbits.

                  The declarative oblique posed 40 km from the city. I took it off the road from a car (Ekaterinburg-Perm highway).
                  1. +5
                    29 October 2023 08: 18
                    Good morning Vladislav!

                    And the squirrels have become so impudent. Beggars on a particularly large scale.
                    1. +1
                      29 October 2023 18: 23
                      In Surgut, at the bus stop of the cedar park of the NGDU in the 90s, there were XNUMX-hour kiosks near which flocks of beggar squirrels constantly hovered. And such picky people adored Snickers most of all, and without fear of anything, they patiently stood next to them while people waited, took the bars out of the packaging and broke them into pieces, after which they pounced on them with the whole flock smile They hissed threateningly at crows, stray cats and dogs, the only thing they were afraid of was polar owls.
  4. +10
    28 October 2023 08: 28
    I would still choose the North American Indians as an example, not the Dayaks. Still, Borneo is not the most typical area for our planet. And as for animals - the jungle is not the most productive place..

    And so, it has long been noticed that the remains of hunter-gatherers and early Neolithic farmers are quite different. It is obvious that the hunters ate better and more varied, and in general lived somehow more cheerfully.

    Actually, if you read stories about Indians of the 17th-19th centuries, you will see one thing. Everyone notes their amazing health and some simply incredible endurance. Naturally, all this did not concern European diseases. This means that everything was in order with the quality of their food.

    I always liked the passage from the memoirs of the Crow shaman Beautiful Shield. One day, her brother and his comrades were going somewhere on business, and they had to cross the river, which had already begun to suffer slush. The brother undressed, tied all his clothes on the horse, and swam off. I barely crawled ashore, I was so frozen. In order to somehow restore mobility to his limbs, he began to roll in the snow. Then he lit a fire, warmed up and shouted to his comrades to swim too. He said - he almost died of laughter, watching them barely move in the same way, wearing their heads. Having warmed up, we drove on... No one even sneezed after that..

    Beautiful Shield commented on this by saying that the youth had become completely pampered. For example, it would never have occurred to her father to make a fire in such a situation...

    How many of us are able to repeat such a trick and not end up dead? And for them, this is a normal everyday situation... Obviously, with poor nutrition, you cannot develop such immunity and health... Moreover, they have been eating well and properly - for generations.
    1. +5
      28 October 2023 09: 07
      How many of us are able to repeat such a trick and not end up dead? And for them, this is a normal everyday situation... Obviously, with poor nutrition, you cannot develop such immunity and health... Moreover, they have been eating well and properly - for generations.

      Not so simple. During the Second World War, worse things happened at the front (judging by the memoirs of front-line soldiers) and there wasn’t even a runny nose.
      But then....
      Most paid for this abuse of health with shorter life expectancy after the war. And much less.
      1. +5
        28 October 2023 09: 21
        People don't get sick in war. In Russia, “Covid” somehow ended abruptly with the beginning of the Northeast Military District. And all over the world too.
        1. +5
          28 October 2023 09: 52
          This is just indicative. But rather in terms of a new phase of the experiment.

          And here we again come to the choice from Balzac: “Obedience, rebellion or struggle.”
      2. +5
        28 October 2023 10: 14
        Of course, they lived significantly less than us. The oldest Neanderthal is about 50 years old... No one idealizes those times, food was not easy to get, and not every sore can be cured with herbs. But if you compare hunters with early farmers, the life of hunters seems to have been better...

        But it’s interesting - those of the Indian fighters who survived the wars of the 19th century lived at least until they were 80 years old... Remaining quite vigorous old men. Despite all the stress and hardships that I had to endure.
      3. +5
        28 October 2023 10: 22
        Most paid for this abuse of health with shorter life expectancy after the war.

        You don’t take into account that for our grandfathers, war deprivation and stress were an extraordinary event. And people at the stage of primitive society have always lived this way. For them, all this was natural and ordinary.
      4. +4
        28 October 2023 10: 22
        Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
        Most paid for this abuse of health with shorter life expectancy after the war. And much less.


        On the other hand, some front-line soldiers are still alive.
        1. +5
          28 October 2023 10: 50
          Those who did not receive any serious injuries, as I understand it, lived as long as everyone else. At least, among my grandfather’s generation, no one among my relatives died particularly early. But among my peers, at least half are no longer there... Although, there was no war...
    2. +4
      28 October 2023 09: 33
      Quote: paul3390
      paul3390 (Paul)

      You, Pavel, should read my novel “People and Weapons.” It is all written on such memories of Indians and about Indians!
      1. +2
        28 October 2023 10: 16
        Give me a link - I’ll read it with pleasure.. And so - I once remember suddenly becoming hooked on Stukalin.. Well, I need to read something besides scientific monographs!
        1. +3
          28 October 2023 13: 02
          Quote: paul3390
          Give me a link - I’ll read it with pleasure..

          You go to author.today. There you look for a title or author and that’s it... minimum payment.
    3. +1
      28 October 2023 15: 38
      I would still choose North American Indians as an example

      Not very correct. The Indians you describe are difficult to relate to classic hunter-gatherers. After all, your Indians had muskets bought from Europeans, and knives, and tomahawks, and iron spear tips, and even sewing needles, and, finally, horses. Live and be happy. It is not surprising that the mounted Indians began to spread rot on the Indian farmers - just like in the rest of the world, the nomads spread rot on the farmers. But for some reason, before the arrival of Europeans, everything was the other way around - farmers crowded out hunters.
      1. +3
        29 October 2023 00: 45
        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
        . But for some reason, before the arrival of Europeans, everything was the other way around - farmers crowded out hunters.


        In real life, farmers cooperate quite peacefully with hunters. Moreover, it is farmers who are more likely to need the services of professional hunters, rather than vice versa. Who provided protection for crops from attacks by wild animals and protected herds from predators? Naturally, these were hunters. Later they also turned into professional warriors, leaders, and nobility. Historically, in all cultures, noble people (nobility) were engaged in hunting and protecting the territory, and the local population provided them with maintenance (paid taxes, taxes, tribute). A kind of agreement, some risk their lives, others support them. The function of hunting, for the nobility, was not entertainment, but a duty to protect the local population and property, as well as war. So the role of farmers was always secondary, since, as warriors, they lost and were tied to property (this is a big drawback). The farm cannot be moved, and no matter how many people there are on the farm, more hunter-warriors can always be gathered against them.
        1. 0
          29 October 2023 20: 04
          Apparently this is why the peasant poachers were executed.
          1. +1
            29 October 2023 20: 44
            Quote: YAHU
            Apparently this is why the peasant poachers were executed.


            Peasants had no right to execute poachers. They couldn't even punish me. Punishment could only be imposed by a landowner, who is also a nobleman (a person who has an inherited title received for services to the fatherland in war and is obliged to be ready at any time to defend the Motherland. In fact, a warrior, or hunter-gatherer). He appointed a forester on his lands and himself hunted bears and wolves so that they would not kill the peasants. However, even the landowner could not make a decision on execution; this was dealt with by higher authorities. Execution in the Russian Empire was an exceptional punishment and was used extremely rarely. Usually decisions were approved personally by the emperor, and he could not consider many such decisions purely physically. It was more profitable for the emperor to replace a nobleman who submitted many petitions for the use of the death penalty so that his subjects would love him. Therefore, there were extremely few requests to impose such a punishment and they were considered by special authorities for a very long time and carefully.
        2. 0
          29 October 2023 20: 39
          In real life, farmers cooperate quite peacefully with hunters.

          Yeah. When both the farmer and the hunter are from the same tribe. Or they’ve been living together in the same territory for a long time, and they figured out who’s in charge a long time ago. Otherwise, the war is not for life, but for death.
          1. +2
            29 October 2023 21: 59
            Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
            Yeah. When both the farmer and the hunter are from the same tribe. Or they’ve been living together in the same territory for a long time, and they figured out who’s in charge a long time ago. Otherwise, the war is not for life, but for death.


            Sergei!
            Understand a simple thing. The hunter is not strictly tied to the territory. He can hide in the forest, or move to a safe area, unlike the farmer. The farmer cannot leave his plot of land, in which case he is doomed to starvation. Farmers, by definition, are not warriors or hunters. Moreover, any hunter who is able to feed himself is a good warrior. Hunting is an element of war, whether you like it or not. Thus, the farmer simply has no chance to survive in the event of a war with hunters. They cannot even get together, much less leave their fields and herds. If this happens, they or their families will die of hunger, and the hunter, in this case, simply experiences temporary inconvenience, nothing more. This is his way of life
            1. 0
              4 November 2023 07: 33
              Yeah. Following your logic, we must live in a society of hunters. And for some reason we live in a civilization of farmers. Why? - Can you guess it yourself or explain?
              1. +1
                7 November 2023 01: 05
                Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                Yeah. Following your logic, we must live in a society of hunters. And for some reason we live in a civilization of farmers.


                Explain of course. It is very interesting where you discovered civilizations of farmers.

                The military and police control our life and death. They decide whether we live or not. The war has started and there are no fields, farms, cities, the inhabitants are dead, and you are talking about the civilization of farmers. One example. There were such farmers as Khrushchev and Brezhnev, as a result of which the USSR collapsed on its own, without outside help.
                1. 0
                  4 December 2023 20: 44
                  The military and police first appeared in agricultural civilizations. Our modern technological civilization is just a variant of the civilization of farmers.
                  "where you discovered the civilizations of farmers." - open your eyes - all civilizations before the New Age - civilizations of farmers, minus a very limited number of nomads.
    4. 0
      7 November 2023 10: 16
      The book “While the Grass Grows” describes the methods of hardening the Indians. One of them is very simple: the father took his one-month-old baby with him to swim in an ice hole. He dipped it and wrapped it in furs. So every day. Those born in the summer were a little lucky, of course - they started with warmer water. Also, the children did not wear clothes on their bodies for a long time. So that the body is like a face - insensitive to cold.
  5. +8
    28 October 2023 11: 04
    In addition, the Dayaks lived by hunting and fishing. The fact is that their villages were located along the banks of rivers, which were the only acceptable road through the jungle.


    An important detail that for some reason most researchers of ancient migrations do not pay attention to. In textbooks, primitive hunter-gatherers are presented as unfortunate eccentrics who, having destroyed and eaten all the game and edible plants around them, wandered from place to place. They collected things, put them on the unfortunate, hungry women and went to a new place, probably feeding on their own children along the way. During their migrations, they themselves fought off predators with spears, dying in this fight. Running into rivers, for some reason they immediately swam across them at the risk of their lives, dying heroically.

    For some reason, no one writes that ancient people, having reached a deep river, caught fish, collected crayfish, edible shells, made swimming devices (rafts, boats), loaded them with things and migrated up or downstream, first of all. Well, they are not idiots to carry everything on their backs if there is a river, and women will not understand and will send them away if there are idiots nearby. It is unlikely today to discover the remains of primitive boats made of skins and branches, or knitted rafts, but everyone has heard about barge haulers on the Volga. Apparently, the barge hauler technique was invented much earlier than horses were domesticated. A horse must be fed, watered, guarded, walked and sometimes used to transport goods, while rivers are always ready to transport and feed, and rafts do not eat bread and meat.

    And most importantly, the river is a landmark - a road on which you won’t get lost.

    A very good article.
    1. +6
      28 October 2023 11: 24
      made swimming devices

      Judging by the settlement of the islands, some watercraft were able to make even as many erectuses... And the Olduvai-type guns on Socotra are generally beyond the limits of modern understanding.
      1. +7
        28 October 2023 11: 47
        Quote: paul3390

        Judging by the settlement of the islands, some watercraft were able to make even as many erectuses... And the Olduvai-type guns on Socotra are generally beyond the limits of modern understanding.


        Totally agree!
        We may understand, but we are afraid to say it, much less admit it. Especially without hard evidence. At the same time, for some reason, the lifestyle of modern, wild tribes living in the Stone Age and sailing on rafts and boats is not considered as evidence. Probably these are modern, primitive people, and they were stupider.
  6. +5
    28 October 2023 11: 47
    Frettaskyrandi, dear, why MODEL 21F?
    Czech cartridges chambered for 8 to 57 MODEL 21 were made with a barrel length of 60 cm, MODEL 22 – with a barrel length of 52 cm. Both models were made with both a half stock MODEL 21Н/ 22Н, and with a full (“Carpathian”) stock – MODEL 21F/ 22F. In the jungle, a long barrel is not really needed to catch wild boars; the British shortened the same Lee-Enfield No. 1 and No. 4 to a “jungle carbine” with a barrel length of 47 cm.
    1. +6
      28 October 2023 12: 34
      Frettaskyrandi, dear, why MODEL 21F?

      I wrote "with a high probability". My choice is purely personal impressions. I was also in those parts and used CZ, in the same caliber, only 600 series. And MODEL 21F was just produced in the same years in which Pfeffer was in Borneo. But there could have been other weapons.
  7. +5
    28 October 2023 16: 42
    3x3zsave (Anton), dear, I agree more with Korsar4 (Sergey). This year in September they installed heating in Severodvinsk. All the same, the kids were snotty in both kindergartens and schools, although there had been no frost yet. And at my wife’s school, both teachers and students were sick. Everyone was given the same diagnosis: “Community-acquired pneumonia”, without blood and urine tests, without CT, fluorography and radiography. A couple of grades 2 or 3 were quarantined at the beginning of October - they did not go to the classrooms. And from October 09 to October 15, the school was transferred to “remote learning” (the children stayed at home), but teachers had to come to school and teach classes from school via the Internet. But the glorious Rospotrebnazdor, for some reason, did not oblige to carry out disinfection at the school (sort of like an epidemic), they didn’t do it... The wife of the paramedic who works at the school asked if Covid had mutated. I received an answer that smears for Covid-19 have not been taken from either adults or children for a long time. After all, the Arkhangelsk region, under the wise leadership of Governor Tsybulsky and Minister of Regional Health Gershtansky, coped with Covid. What is Covid-19?
    And the beloved governor, on October 18.10.2023, 98, signed Decree No. 19-u “On the abolition of the high alert regime for governing bodies and forces of the Arkhangelsk territorial subsystem of the unified state system for the prevention and response of emergency situations.” After all, who were appointed in charge of the fight against Covid-XNUMX in the Russian Federation? That's right - governors...And the Ministry of Health of the Russian Federation? A
    he: “carried out the functions of developing and implementing state policy and legal regulation in the field of healthcare...” and further in the text of the “Regulations on the Ministry of Health of the Russian Federation”.
    1. +3
      28 October 2023 18: 03
      This is definitely not “Africa”!!! laughing
      I already paid for a month of heating yesterday!!!
      I changed the tires last Saturday. I broke my brush while scraping snow off my car this Friday. I'm messing around!
      By the way, Severouralsk is another 300 km to the north from me, and Snezhenk is 100 versts to the south!!!! feel
      For God's sake, don't be offended!
      1. +5
        28 October 2023 19: 52
        This year in September we still got heating

        The Lemax Prime-V24 double-circuit gas boiler with two tanks located one above the other completely eliminated problems with both heating the house and hot water. This is now a thing of the past for us. That very rare case when something inexpensive turned out to be of high quality - for the third year now we can’t get enough of it
        1. +3
          29 October 2023 03: 49
          Hi Dima, in my house I have a 30 kilowatt double-circuit Vahi. But I will change the backup heating in the form of a homemade wood (coal, electric) boiler, but next season.
          1. +4
            29 October 2023 07: 47
            Good morning, Kostya!
            Many people I know who use it praise it very much for its “smart” control, minimal compactness and high efficiency, but let’s just say that Baxi is far from the most “budget” option, and after Anabasis with the reconstruction of the house, we couldn’t afford one. But judging by its heat output, the living space you and I have is approximately the same.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +1
              29 October 2023 11: 20
              Good morning, Kostya!

              Vlad, forgive me for God's sake. The previous comment was written against the background of Anton’s message that Konstantin was once again banned - now for three months. So, under the impression, he peed himself automatically and got the names mixed up.
              With sincere respect, Dmitry.
  8. 0
    30 October 2023 00: 59
    Borneo differs from our northern conditions in a constant summer with a rainy season. In our conditions, there is spawning in rivers and lakes and seasonal changes in hunting methods. At the same time, it is still necessary to take into account the uniqueness of forests. From steppes to mixed, then forest and taiga, and further north to the tundra. And everywhere has its own characteristics. And I had to adapt. But it is a fact that ancient people adapted perfectly. As an example, there are labyrinths made of stones on the northern islands. We still had to swim to them. And also visit regularly. None of the researchers know EXACTLY why the labyrinths were built, or who built them. There are many assumptions. One of the dumbest is the assumption about fishing. Just in those days there was so much fish that there was absolutely no need to build labyrinths to catch it. And as art in the expression of signs from stones - maybe.
  9. 0
    30 October 2023 08: 52
    Cool stuff! Thank you!
    There's just one question
    lived in the earliest Iron Age. Moreover, even in the 1950s they combined metal tools with stone ones.

    Have the methods and methods of mining this very iron been preserved? Or did they have “imported” iron?