Armenia: a trap for Russia, a bomb for Transcaucasia

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Armenia: a trap for Russia, a bomb for Transcaucasia

Indeed, the strange dance that Nikol Pashinyan is performing today, in which he is simultaneously trying to drag the United States into the circle and push Russia out, is fascinating with its provocative recklessness.

Today we are distracted by something else, we have the Northern Military District here, which occupies 70 percent of the independent information space, but in reality, beyond the Caucasus, something could now begin that will set many people in Russia on fire. And, apparently, not everyone clearly understands this.



However, today, there, beyond the Caucasus ridge, events are unfolding that could not only cause another badabum on a regional scale, but completely redraw the political map of the region.

The fact that Pashinyan was going to surrender Karabakh to Azerbaijan is just the beginning. And, by and large, this is the problem of Pashinyan and the Armenian people. How the Armenians there will perceive this, after two wars and hundreds of skirmishes, I don’t know, but it really doesn’t matter. It is important that Pashinyan furiously calls the United States into the region and really wants to join NATO. In fact, this is apparently the only way, because after so many spits in the direction of Russia, if the desire to defend Armenia among our rulers drops to zero, it will be completely understandable and logical. And yes, there is only one hope left - NATO.

And this is where the detective begins...

Let's go into the (recent) history of this very flammable region



In the 1950s, the US Central Intelligence Agency supplied weapons and Iraq with money, and in return tried to create an anti-communist front on the basis of the country. However, on the night of July 14, 1958, the pro-American administration of Iraq was overthrown as a result of an armed coup, General Kasym became head of state and opened the doors to Soviet-Iraqi friendship.


Considering the very good relations between the USSR and Iran, the Americans simply could not afford this. The CIA immediately began infiltrating the opposition Baath Party. At the same time, two attempts were made on General Kasym’s life, but they were unsuccessful. Five years later, there was another coup organized by the CIA, and US influence in Iraq increased again.

Ali Salih Sadi, who served as Iraq's interior minister in the 1960s, said: "We came to power on a CIA train". On this train there was also a young politician with a bright future.


This figure was Saddam Hussein, a member of the Baath Party, who made a stunning career in the party, which worked with CIA money. According to Yevgeny Primakov, both the USSR and the USA relied on Saddam as a promising leader.

Saddam managed to be friends with both great powers, which helped him a lot after the outbreak of the Iran-Iraq War, since the CIA sided with Saddam and provided him with every possible support. The West really feared the growth of radical Islamism of Ayatollah Khomeini, the leader of Iran, and did everything possible to prevent the implementation of Iranian plans to implement the ideas of the Islamic revolution. In 1982, the United States removed Iraq from its list of countries that sponsor terrorism. Two years later, bilateral diplomatic relations, interrupted during the Arab-Israeli War of 1967, were restored. At the same time, Iraq continued to remain an ally of the USSR and receive weapons from it. Although Saddam took weapons from France, Great Britain and the USA with no less pleasure.

During the Iran-Iraq War of 1980-1988, the US quietly supplied Iran with weapons for use against Iraq through Israel.

Mehdi Hashemi, one of the founders of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Army and an important figure in Iranian intelligence, was convicted and executed for a crime he committed in the past because he exposed an arms exchange between Iran and the United States (Israel).

Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, who was supposed to become the head of the country after Khomeini, was dismissed from his position as an MP because he opposed the purchase of weapons from Israel. He was under house arrest from 1997 until his death in 2009.


Montazeri describes arms sales from Israel to Iran as follows:

“Representatives of Ronald Reagan secretly came to Tehran and negotiated with Iran about arms supplies.

I objected to this and said, “Are we going to fight Iraq with the weapons we bought from Israel?” I said, "This is wrong." Because the US sold weapons to Iran through Israel. I said, “It is wrong to buy weapons from Israel, the enemy of Muslims, and to fight against Muslims in Iraq.”

One evening, when we were at Khomeini's house, I said that buying weapons from Israel was wrong. This news appeared in a newspaper in Lebanon and greatly alarmed the managers. That's why they tried and executed Mehdi Hashemi."

The US destroyed two Muslim countries that posed a threat to themselves by collaborating with their leaders. A million people died in the Iran-Iraq war.


The war caused $150 billion in economic damage. The war, in which there were no winners, over eight years undermined the military and economic resources of both countries, just as the United States wanted.

In 2003, in order to destroy Iraq and destroy Saddam, the same US invaded Iraq on the grounds that it had weapons of mass destruction. A year after the invasion, CIA chief Jim Pavitt said:
“We didn't have many sources of information inside Iraq. A ton of assumptions were made based on a gram of intelligence"
. He confessed and denied previous reports. The investigation revealed that the CIA's claims about Iraqi weapons were a fantasy.

The British Prime Minister at the time, Tony Blair, who was one of the key figures in the war by supporting the invasion of Iraq in 2003, also admitted that the reason for the invasion of Iraq was a lie.

“I apologize for the fact that the intelligence we received was incorrect.”
, said Blair.

“I also apologize for some mistakes made during the planning phase (of the war) and for our lack of understanding of what will happen with the overthrow of the regime.”
, - he said.


As a result, Iraq was torn apart, one and a half million people died, and the country was plunged into chaos that would last for many years. The region has become a breeding ground for terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaeda and ISIS.


2011 was the so-called “Arab Spring”, in fact the “Bloody Autumn”. Libya and Syria were thrown into chaos following Iraq.

2022 Ukraine's membership in NATO and the EU was a “red line” for Russia. The United States constantly repeated its provocations regarding Ukraine's accession to NATO, making promises and statements through the mouths of politicians. Russia launched a special military operation in Ukraine on February 24, 2022.


The Iraqi scenario of the 80s is what happened to Ukraine. Ukraine has become a country with destroyed cities and destroyed infrastructure. The United States again implemented a similar scenario, the goal of which was to destroy Russia militarily and economically through Ukraine, thereby eliminating Russia as a threat to the United States. But the United States did not get what it expected. Russia did not collapse.

2023 The unchanged US scenario is in action again. This time provoking Russia through Armenia. The presence of NATO in the South Caucasus is not a “red line” for Russia; NATO already exists there in the form of Turkey and Azerbaijan, the latter, although not in NATO, is essentially the second part of Turkey with all that it implies.

If you want, you can figure out who was the first to put forward the idea of ​​Armenia joining NATO, whose initiative was Brussels or Yerevan, but today Yerevan grabbed the opportunity to join NATO as a lifeline.

However, anyone who is even slightly familiar with NATO principles understands that Armenia simply has no chance of joining the bloc. There is an army that does not at all meet NATO standards and there is a territorial dispute with Azerbaijan. And these two things are more than enough to delay Armenia's entry into NATO.

But there is an even more compelling argument against it. This is Türkiye



Today we can see how Türkiye does not allow Sweden into NATO. It is clear that provocative burning of the Koran has nothing to do with it, although it is at least unpleasant for Muslims. But it’s one thing when this act is committed by an Iraqi Christian, another thing by a Swedish politician. But this is not the cornerstone.

If you look behind the Turkish bans and vetoes, you can see many years of attempts by Turkey to join the European Union. This difficult process has been going on for more than twenty years, and the Turkish leader once again (exactly after Finland’s admission to NATO) was punched on the nose, again starting the old song that “not everything is so simple in this world.”

Erdogan reacted immediately, saying that parliament will meet on this issue in October-November, and whatever independent and proud parliamentarians decide there, so be it.

For some reason, not many doubt that Turkish parliamentarians will decide that it is too early for Sweden to join NATO.

But let's return to Armenia. And in the same way, Turkey can block the entry of this country into NATO, because this does not bode well for Turkey.

If Yerevan and Brussels provocateurs could drag Russia into Armenia following the model and likeness of Ukraine, that would be simply gorgeous. Today it is clear that Russia is not capable of waging a war on two fronts, although a second front in Armenia would most likely be a short-lived phenomenon. The Armenian army is one big so-so in all respects.

But dragging Russia into another conflict is really very serious; the country cannot handle two fronts under any circumstances. But it’s not just about Russia in the region, right?

To set Russia against Armenia, fortunately, Pashinyan gives more than enough reasons for this.
To set Iran against Azerbaijan, fortunately, things are not so smooth in relations between the countries.
To set Turkey against Iran, which is generally the simplest thing in this triad.

The result is a significant weakening of Russia and Iran on the one hand and Turkey and Azerbaijan on the other.

Who is winning? That's right, USA


Russia, which is already waging a war, one might say, against NATO, will receive another front and may simply not be able to withstand this. This is good for the US.

Turkey, which demonstrates an overly independent line of behavior, being drawn into a war with such a serious rival as Iran, will be significantly weakened. This is good for the US.

Azerbaijan, which will definitely go to finish off Armenia together with Russia, since there are historically Azerbaijani territories there, will also not stand aside. And this is also useful for the USA.

As a result, we end up with an Armenia that is non-existent in both senses (military and political), it is not clear what the state of Russia is, and weakened Turkey, Azerbaijan and Iran.

Look at the map again. What a huge region will simply be plunged into chaos in addition to Iraq and Syria.


Russia, Türkiye, Iran – these are the three main points of application of political power.

The paradox is that Turkey and Russia have good relations. Russia and Iran have even better relations than Turkey and Russia. There is a very good chance that the parties will be able to reach an agreement. Especially if Türkiye takes a clear and definite position.

After all, by and large, Turkey is not very worried about Iran’s influence in Transcaucasia. Iran in its current position does not pose a serious political or economic threat to Turkey. And even in the military, because despite the size and training of the Iranian army and the IRGC, the Turkish armed forces are also not in last place in NATO. Some people think it's the second one.

Erdogan, if you believe his statements, would generally like some kind of stability in general in relations between Azerbaijan and Iran, because any clash on the topic of the same Armenia could lead to the situation in the region getting out of control and to a flow of refugees to Turkey, which Erdogan definitely doesn’t need it.

Turkish political scientist Orhan Gafarli, in response to allegations that Turkey is seeking dominance in the Caucasus, said:
“Turkey sells weapons to Georgia and Azerbaijan, but it has no plans to open its military base in the region. All the talk about Turkey subjugating Azerbaijan is nothing more than demagoguery.”
. One can and should agree with this, because a Turk and an Azerbaijani are like a Russian and a Belarusian. And with the same degree of logic we can say that Russia has subjugated Belarus.

In fact, there are more than enough slippery moments and tensions in relations between countries in the region. However, here it is worth not picking apart your neighbor; the task of maintaining peace and stability is somewhat different.

The United States would be very happy to pit two pairs around Armenia, Turkey-Azerbaijan and Russia-Iran. This would indeed be a very, very successful move. The fact that Mr. Pashinyan, who is very short-sighted and not very educated in some aspects, wants to destabilize the situation in the region, turning it to his advantage, enlisting the help of the States, is due to ignorance stories.


Mr. Pashinyan should know how Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, who came to power with the help of the CIA and American money, ended his days.

There is a third pair in the region, Türkiye - Russia. Unfortunately, relations between Azerbaijan and Iran are far from ideal, but nevertheless, as history shows, sometimes it makes sense even for not quite friends to unite against one big common enemy.

Armenia can be a trap for many. Especially for those who will be involved in conflict over the above issues. But Russia could really suffer the most.

Today Armenia, represented by the same Pashinyan, is rushing into the arms of the United States. But we should not forget that Armenia is a member of the CSTO, and its plenipotentiary representative in this organization, Grigoryan, is one of those who are ready to vote with their hands and feet for the dissolution of the CSTO and joining NATO.

And one can only laugh at the illusions of the Armenian leaders who believe that “NATO will come and restore order.” In the videos filmed by Armenian provocateurs, I heard shouts addressed to Russian peacekeepers, the essence of which boiled down to the fact that they, the peacekeepers, should fight for Armenian interests, since they were there.

This policy is present not only in videos with provocative content, it can also be seen in the speeches of a number of Armenian leaders. Why Russians should die for the interests of Armenia, and the Armenians will watch this from the sidelines, is not clear. But it is very clear that not a single NATO soldier will calmly die for Armenian interests. This is a stupid illusion that if “NATO comes...” then security will appear on its own.

And if he doesn’t come?


But Russia now has a different headache. On the territory of Armenia we have a military base, missile defense surveillance and tracking systems, and so on. And Mr. Grigoryan will give all this to the gentlemen from NATO with great pleasure. If you haven’t already, then you should generally prepare for the worst.

Russia has a certain risk of falling into a trap. But this is dangerous if the state’s rather toothless foreign policy continues, when all the activities of the Russian Foreign Ministry boil down to expressing concerns and drawing lines of unclear colors.

In the event that Russia, Iran and Turkey organize a political front against possible explicit and (especially) implicit US interference (once again) in the affairs of the region, everything may not turn out the way Washington or Langley would like.
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  1. +19
    19 September 2023 04: 39
    Azerbaijan has large reserves of oil and gas. Azerbaijan is a Turkic state through which good relations can be maintained with the entire Turkic world. We must not forget that Turkic peoples also live on the territory of the Russian Federation. Open and friendly people live in Azerbaijan (I still have relatives living there). There is no need to judge Azerbaijanis only by those individuals who are in our markets...

    Armenia - The Country of Stones and an unreliable partner of Russia. There is nothing in Armenia except Armenians, and from there crime comes to our country and thousands of so-called people arrive. refugees. This is a country that Russia created at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, resettling Armenians from the Near and Middle East to the Caucasus for its supports in this region, but as time has shown, Armenia turned out to be not the same support, which Russia was counting on.

    As you can see, the analytics here is simple and you can immediately see who is who...
    1. -1
      19 September 2023 04: 46
      Was Armenia created by Russia?
      The author needs to take into account..... laughing And in general to everyone who thought that the Armenians created the state BC....
      And the fact that Armenia interferes is understandable... For some dancers, everything interferes.
      1. +32
        19 September 2023 05: 37
        Quote: ivan2022
        Was Armenia created by Russia?

        Since the Seljuk Turks came to the Caucasus, and this happened 1000 years ago, such a state simply ceased to exist. And if not for Russia, they would have been scattered throughout the East. An example of this is the Assyrians, who also lost their state

        Quote: ivan2022
        Armenians created a state BC

        Today's Armenians have exactly the same attitude towards the ancient Armenians as the Greeks did towards Hellas, and modern Italians towards ancient Rome. And exactly the same as you to Russia...
        1. +5
          19 September 2023 08: 41
          Quote: Des
          Since the Seljuk Turks came to the Caucasus, and this happened 1000 years ago, such a state simply ceased to exist

          Even 2000 years ago, as part of the Roman Empire, Armenia was not completely free. And yes, they were already settling around the world then, if you believe Roman historians.
          Quote: Luminman
          Today's Armenians have exactly the same attitude towards the ancient Armenians as the Greeks did towards Hellas, and modern Italians towards ancient Rome. And exactly the same as you to Russia...

          Curious, on what basis was this conclusion made? And about the Greeks too? Jews did not cease to remain Jews, although the territory where they lived was invaded by everyone. Yes, Italy and Ancient Rome, Ancient Egypt and the current Arabs inhabiting the country are completely different peoples living in the same place on earth in different historical periods. But this is not always the case in history, is it?
        2. 0
          20 September 2023 03: 29
          I see a discussion has developed... The Great Armenia of King Artashes meant a country from sea to sea. Today's Armenia is trying to preserve what it has!
          Lenin tripled the area of ​​Armenia! And at the same time, territories that were strategically important and remained with Turkey were lost... In particular, Kars...
          Of course, you can argue about the history of the country, but not write your own history! A question for those Armenians who drive around Moscow in Mercedes and really don’t like Azerbaijanis...
          I have a close friend who is Armenian and took Karabakh. I don’t even know what he’s going through in his soul right now...
      2. +24
        19 September 2023 09: 53
        Quote: ivan2022
        And in general to everyone who thought that the Armenians created the state BC....

        And who would argue, but Armenia has already been saved twice, once by the kings, and the second time in October 1921, but is it necessary to save it a third time?
        The words may be offensive to some, but real politics is a harsh thing:
        If Russia disappears, then Armenia will be Khan. If Armenia disappears, Russia will not notice.
        1. +10
          19 September 2023 10: 24
          As soon as he notices. In Russia there is a huge, loud-mouthed, impudent diaspora that has penetrated into all spheres, including power.
          1. +10
            19 September 2023 10: 34
            Quote: Essex62
            In Russia there is a huge, loud-mouthed, impudent diaspora that has penetrated into all spheres, including power.

            These are the ones who won’t even notice; they live better in Russia than in Armenia and most of them were already born in Russia.
            1. 0
              20 September 2023 20: 25
              Nothing like that. Unlike Pashinyan and co., who clearly understand to what point they can push through the mattresses they want, and when to jump into the Falcon “in steam” and run away from the reprisals of their compatriots to the owner, but be able to prevent this or strangle it by force,” Moscow “Armenians are very dependent on the opinion of their compatriots, because in the Russian Federation, the representatives of the “Karabakh” party, whose power rested on that first victory in the war with the Azeris, were mostly the losers of the batch and pushed out to us. They live well here, but they cannot ignore the affairs of the diaspora. Everything is tough there.
        2. -1
          19 September 2023 14: 37
          If Russia disappears, Armenia will be Khan.
          Nonsense! It does not play a role for others except as an outpost to Russia’s access. It will slowly exist. After all, there are other small states. And now she is like a Pug to an elephant.
          Neighboring countries cannot be strengthened. Immediately sell yourself with your fortification.
          1. +1
            20 September 2023 20: 27
            It won’t happen, the Turks will be slaughtered. Those from Karabakh will be first, then everywhere else. The level of hatred there is off the charts.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. -13
      19 September 2023 11: 34
      A big war is coming, predicted by Paisius of Athos. As a result, Turkey will be divided, and Istanbul, by decision of the powers that be, will go to the Greeks. By the way, this prophecy is well known to the current government in Turkey.
      1. +7
        19 September 2023 14: 39
        Wars go on endlessly and without predictors.
    3. +1
      19 September 2023 15: 55
      I agree with you one hundred percent. The Russian tsars who settled this gypsy tribe (Armenians) in the Caucasus must have known one truth: a gypsy can only beg for alms, and nothing more.
    4. +1
      19 September 2023 21: 10
      Why are you confusing? According to my fox impressions, Armenians are either swindlers or academics)) It’s not about the people, but about bastard politicians. If in Azerbaijan the politicians are sober-minded, then in Armenia they are corrupt people... And the people - people everywhere want to live well and peacefully
    5. -6
      20 September 2023 08: 41
      Azerbaijani “anti-terrorist measures of a local nature” in Karabakh are a serious blow to Russia’s influence in the Transcaucasus given the current geopolitical realities (the Russian Federation’s involvement in the Northern Military District and all the consequences of this). Aliyev is completely under Erdogan. Erdogan after May (elections in Turkey), no matter what he says, is completely under the US. The whole situation in Transcaucasia is a skillful combination (provocation) of the United States to “stretch” Russia and involve our state in new conflicts. Exactly the same provocation as with Ukraine - the desire (voiced before February 2022) of the Kyiv regime to join NATO in the presence of territorial disputes with us.

      Therefore, we will use the forces of the CSTO: we will be “stretched” and may lose. It is clear that no one will truly use the CSTO’s forces and for the purposes of the Organization’s Charter, since the Kremlin now mistakenly thinks that everything that happens between Azerbaijan and Armenia is beneficial to them. If not applicable, we will completely lose Armenia. There are no other options. Pro-Azerbaijani Karabakh is not a victory for Russia. Aliyev's victory - yes, Erdogan's - yes. Movement of pawns in a big chess game for the United States far from its borders - yes. Whoever says that a regime change will now occur in Armenia (specifically the real course, and not temporary politicians), and it will become even more pro-Russian - this is the same nonsense as the fact that Ukraine has already been almost completely demilitarized and denazified.

      If the United States began a provocation, it means that this corresponds to their schedule as part of the implementation of their “business plan” for the collapse and weakening of Russia. So, everything has been calculated. This means that Transcaucasia is slowly, unfortunately, becoming even more American. The reality today is this. Erdogan did not start with the “hands” of Azerbaijan after his meeting with Putin in Sochi. He started at the behest of the United States, creating the appearance and exaggerating the role of this meeting in Sochi for the public consciousness. Erdogan is not a friend of Russia. As a strong national politician, he acts exclusively in his own interests and in the interests of his people. It is dependent on the United States and acts by agreement.

      PS About Shoigu’s trip to Iran. The Americans already briefly “bought” Tehran yesterday in terms of their possible additional loyalty to Russia by unfreezing their billions of dollars in South Korean bank accounts and carrying out a prisoner exchange. We need to act faster and more specifically, Sergei Kuzhugetovich. And this applies not only to Iran. Otherwise, our “partners” will continue to twist our arms.
      1. +4
        20 September 2023 10: 34
        “If not applicable, we will completely lose Armenia.” - I just burst into tears... we will lose so much... where is my helmet? ran to Karabakh... Armenia is such a good ally, it also recognized Abkhazia and Ossetia and Donbass... a valuable personnel. And her prime minister thinks day and night about how to strengthen good neighborly ties with Russia. I don’t care about Armenia in its current form... “Neither friend nor enemy, just that.” Let Kardashian take off his clothes in defense of his homeland
        1. GGV
          +4
          20 September 2023 15: 38
          About a year ago, an Armenian told me that: “Russia does not support well and does not fight for Armenia at all.” I answered him that Armenia itself does not recognize Karabakh, and on what basis should Russia then send its military there? But Russia recognized the DPR, DPR, Kherson region and so on, and where are the valiant Armenian military, and at least just words of support? This is where the Armenian got angry, it turns out that friendship is also an obligation.
    6. -3
      20 September 2023 08: 43
      Armenia does not have any obligations to open the “Zangezur Corridor” - Ambassador-at-Large in response to the statement of the Turkish President

      Discussions about this, which were artificially put into circulation, cannot be promoted as a legitimate demand, Edmon Marukyan said on OAT. Moreover, Yerevan’s position in this context has not changed, and in the tripartite agreement of November 9, 2020, it was only about the opening of communications, for which Armenia is ready.
    7. -1
      20 September 2023 15: 34
      What is all this for? There are no Turkic peoples, there are Turkic-speaking peoples, so all Turkic-speaking peoples differ racially, culturally, peoples and economically.
    8. 0
      27 September 2023 13: 49
      From the TG channel "Artamonov.Defense": """...Open letter to Ilham Heydarovich Aliyev, President of Azerbaijan

      I have a feeling that Baku lost its shores, felt the intoxication of victory over a small people and decided to bully its large and terrible neighbor.

      Let me remind you that, according to the mathematical modeling of current trends, carried out by a very serious and fast-acting machine, if such “misunderstandings” continue, Azerbaijan may accidentally and suddenly not remain... It was and floated. And its territory will be part of Russia and Iran. Please note, this is not even a warning or Aesopian language, but a truthful transmission of what one computer predicted if Ilham Heydarovich does not come to his senses.

      Is it worth repeating the fate of Georgia, Ilham Heydarovich? And who will compensate the inconsolable widows for the death of our guys, shot at point-blank range by your soldiers? Or was it Turkish special forces?

      Come to your senses! Are you ready to pay the price for Ukraine, which you consider an ally? Have you forgotten how you taught in Moscow, went to MGIMO, when you were not yet related to the Pashayev clan and no one knew about you yet?! Do you really think that Moscow will allow you to shoot its peacekeepers? One president already decided this - then he ate his tie, and now he’s in a psychiatry.

      Azerbaijan is a young state. And not at all militant. So, better engage in trade, build the Zangezur corridor and don’t fight - you don’t know how to do this at our level. And we are not ready to pay the price for war - don’t flatter yourself!

      And Türkiye will not help you, Ilham Heydarovich! We beat Turkey 351 years in a row - 12 times, from 1568 to 1918. We can repeat it if necessary. Shouldn't you know? So don’t share the skin of an unkilled bear and trust your London friends less! Don't be evil! The Russians are also an eastern nation - but even more warlike than the Afghans, Kyrgyz and Turkmens. We know how to endure and how to hit hard. And by the way, don’t trust the Turks! Historically, you still do not belong to them, but to the Sassanid empire. You fought with them for Erzurum. And in general, Azerbaijanis are Shiites, not Sunnis. Is there really a desire to be “younger brothers”? Believe me, I know the attitude of the Turks to this issue: half of my family are Kabardians, and of a very high family, the Kunizhevs.

      Come to your senses! There is still time. I know that your advisors will read my post. I have always sincerely wished health to you and your beautiful and intelligent wife! And prosperity to your country! But I won’t forgive you for the blood of our guys. And I won’t come to my beloved Baku again.

      The time has come for tough decisions. We Russians will not tolerate any NATO bases on our borders. Show wisdom! Think about the future!

      P.S.
      And yes, let’s dot the i’s: no one will give up Armenia to you and Erdogan, as well as the USA and France: we ourselves need it. And let's not return to this issue again...."""".
    9. 0
      27 September 2023 13: 54
      Practically unarmed (Pashinyan, according to him, withdrew most of the armored vehicles and heavy weapons from Artsakh back in August 2021), without the support of Armenia, without air defense systems, with an extremely limited supply of fuel and with poor communications, the Artsakh defense army is destroyed in 1,5 days about 200 and wounds about 500 well-fed, armed with the latest technology, with cover from Bayraktars and aviation, Azerbaijani military personnel.

      Truly, what the Artsakh fighters did was a real feat.
  2. +14
    19 September 2023 04: 39
    Nikol Vovaevich is the chairman of the CSTO and believes that the CSTO should leave Armenia........ This is already a 30-year tradition when every director believes that his company should be bankrupt.
    1. old
      +6
      19 September 2023 09: 26
      “The main thing is to drive out the Russian troops, and only then we will somehow make friends with Azerbaijan.” Well, well... Have you forgotten the story? But in vain - she may well punish for unlearned lessons.
  3. +26
    19 September 2023 05: 11
    The Armenians' view that Russia should solve their problems is their national tradition. And yes, there is Sochi, if that’s the case.
    1. Des
      +4
      19 September 2023 07: 26
      Quote: Slon_on
      And yes, there is Sochi, if that happens.

      Sochi is a small part))).
    2. +12
      19 September 2023 14: 50
      This may be the case in Sochi! They will surrender Karabakh, but the amers will have to support them in the Krasnodar region. This piece is much more profitable than Karabakh. It has been noticed that Armenians working in positions in migration departments are preventing Russian people from registering in the Krasnodar Territory. But Armenians immediately register their own people and help them quickly obtain citizenship. In all areas of power they are required to receive comprehensive information. They are very eager to get into local police and medicine. They will diagnose any disease for money....
  4. +3
    19 September 2023 05: 51
    Until they remember their peoples in this mess, this will continue. Do the people of Nagorno-Karabakh feel better about this dispute? He is waiting for peace like manna from heaven. Political goals have sharply moved away from the desires of the people. The more victims there are on both sides, the tighter this knot is tightened. No one, I repeat no one, can give advice on how to roll back to the previous state. Only tactical and strategic goals are piled up. The time will come when everyone will forget the goals of the original conflict.
    1. 0
      22 September 2023 22: 04
      What other people of Karabakh? Will you call the Armenians of Sochi the people of Sochi?))
  5. +2
    19 September 2023 06: 06
    Local Pashinyan.
    And you don’t have to look far for examples - Saakashvili is closer than Hussen
  6. +3
    19 September 2023 06: 16
    Pashinyan furiously calls the United States into the region and really wants to join NATO
    It’s one thing to want, and another to get into this same NATO. The fact that Pashinyan solves his own problems and a handful of close associates at the expense of the Armenian people is understandable, as is why Armenia has not yet been kicked out of the CSTO - our base and Russian interests in the Caucasus. But it is a fact that thanks to Pashinyan and those who support him, new problems are brewing (are brewing) for Russia. Unfortunately, the Americans are not asleep and are happy to take advantage of the situation that has developed, not without their help.
    1. +4
      19 September 2023 07: 04
      Pashinyan is clearly seeking the withdrawal of Russians from the Caucasus. But he does not understand that the departure of the Russians will end in a second massacre of the Armenians, because Armenia is not able to defend itself on its own, without the help of the Russians, and NATO will not get involved in this, if only because they have a rule of unanimity, and Turkey, a NATO member, will be against.
      1. 0
        19 September 2023 09: 48
        Quote: Nagan
        Ashinyan is clearly seeking the Russians to leave the Caucasus

        Yes, not Pashinyan, but the USA.
        Quote: Nagan
        But he doesn't understand

        But he doesn’t need to, they think overseas, others do it.
      2. +1
        20 September 2023 15: 41
        He understands everything. His task is to make sure that we are not there. And he will be able to find accommodation for himself and his closest relatives. Politicians have their own logic. And they hardly live by the criteria “this is good for the people, this is bad.”
    2. +8
      19 September 2023 09: 59
      Quote: rotmistr60
      It’s one thing to want, and another to get into this same NATO. The fact that Pashinyan solves his problems and a handful of close associates at the expense of the Armenian people is clear

      In general, in 2023, continuing to try to go under the ovary is already a pure clinic. The Kazakhs, by the way, thoroughly cleaned up the British, giving uranium mining to Rosatom. The steppe respects strength. Smart.
      Stop running around fussily and trying to wipe everyone’s sniffles. Let them grow up. Stupidity should be punished. Otherwise, some people don't learn.
      Georgia, over there, is already a scientist. She no longer joined Ukraine, no matter how much they pushed her.
    3. -1
      19 September 2023 11: 53
      “...It’s one thing to want, but another to get into this very NATO...” (c)
      To get into NATO, you need to join the Strategic Missile Forces instead of the CSTO!
  7. +20
    19 September 2023 06: 25
    Unforgettable Ukrainians! Great Americans, Simply cosmic Pashinyan!
    Others are to blame for everything, because the Russian Foreign Ministry is not capable of anything. Moreover, the interests of Russia and the interests of the Russian ruling class do not coincide. It's high time to understand.
    What about dragging Russia into the conflict? The Kremlin got involved in the conflict not in February 2022, but in 2014. Ordinary people may not see this, but politicians must understand
    1. -1
      19 September 2023 11: 50
      What does the Russian Foreign Ministry have to do with it? The scandal, not even a conflict, is being stirred up by specially trained people in order to distract Russia from Ukraine. They will shout, get green money and calm down. Turkey and Azerbaijan do not benefit from a war with Armenia, and Armenia certainly does not need a war. Apart from loud screams and local provocations, it is unlikely that anything will happen.
  8. +8
    19 September 2023 06: 36
    And I wonder how the only independent player in that region - Iran will look at creating a NATO base at its side?!
    1. +5
      19 September 2023 07: 43
      Quote: Vladimir80
      And I wonder how the only independent player in that region - Iran will look at creating a NATO base at its side?!


      Obviously it’s negative, but it’s much more interesting what Russia thinks in this regard?

      After all, on the one hand, Turkey + Azerbaijan (which is supported by the NATO bloc), and the fact that there were no sanctions against Azerbaijan in 2020, and many Western peace initiatives were slowed down (when Armenians in different countries went on protests), only says that Turkey+Azerbaijan is one of the influential centers of NATO... (most likely the actor is Great Britain).

      On the other hand, there is the pro-American Pashinyan, who came with the support of the United States, but failed to reverse the course of the country, because of the Armenian elites who are oriented toward Russia + because of Armenia’s dependence (economically/militarily on us).

      Now the card is being played when they want to ask Russia from the region, and completely give the region into the hands of NATO, and it does not matter at all which of the actors will be the main player in the region because in any case, he will be from NATO.... it is not clear how we are going to resolve this issue and whether we even want to.

      + the following questions immediately arise on the agenda.... if Pashinyan comes to an agreement with Turkey + Azerbaijan and surrenders Karabakh, then what is the point of keeping a Russian military base in the region? He will enlist the support of the United States, which will act as a mediator and provide security guarantees, and then Armenia’s withdrawal from the EAEU/CSTO will follow.

      And if there is no agreement, then there will be a new military conflict in which the territory will be taken away by force (Armenia itself is not able to defend Karabakh) and then either we intervene and get a conflict with Azerbaijan + Turkey (whose backs are NATO), or we pretend that it is us does not apply, and we violate all agreements.... then the authority/respect for Russia will fall even further.

      It is not clear what to do in this situation... you can theoretically replace Pashinyan with pro-Russian leaders in Armenia (i.e. bring another political force to power), but then you will still have to intervene and fulfill your security obligations because if a pro-Russian leader (conditionally) loses Karabakh due to Russia’s reluctance to intervene, then neither he nor we will be forgiven for this in Armenia. A difficult situation.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  9. +18
    19 September 2023 07: 25
    Let the Armenians fight for their country and their interests THEMSELVES. Of course, they dream that Russia will do this, that Russian soldiers will die.
    Taking Karabakh from Azerbaijan, as far as I remember, was entirely an Armenian idea, instead of reaching an agreement on something good...
    1. old
      +17
      19 September 2023 09: 10
      Not just take Karabakh, but take it, but not recognize it. And for this republic, unrecognized by Armenia, Russian soldiers must die (according to the Armenians). Despite the fact that the Armenians themselves are somehow in no hurry to die for it.
      1. +4
        19 September 2023 16: 39
        To have such audacity to expect that the Russians should conquer lands with them.
    2. +5
      19 September 2023 10: 07
      Quote: Lis_Domino
      Of course, they dream that Russia will do this, that Russian soldiers will die.

      Pashinyan thinks that by joining NATO, NATO members will protect them with their soldiers, but this has not happened since the Vietnam War. When the United States sees that the game is not worth the candle, it simply leaves such a country and looks for another, having left Afghanistan, it immediately found Ukraine and so it will continue (Armenia in reserve).
      1. 0
        19 September 2023 18: 19
        Quote: carpenter
        Pashinyan thinks that by joining NATO, NATO members will protect them with their soldiers,

        Pashinyan, after Azerbaijan began military operations, seemed to promptly declare that his goal was to expel the Russian military base from Gyumri and that Armenia under no circumstances intended to send its troops into Azerbaijan, including Nagorno-Karabakh.
  10. +2
    19 September 2023 07: 56
    The fact that Pashinyan was going to surrender Karabakh to Azerbaijan is just the beginning.
    Three main players do not recognize the independence of Karabakh: Azerbaijan, Russia and Armenia. And how to resolve this issue? Russia recognizes independence, in which case it assumes obligations to protect the population of Karabakh, but it quarrels with Azerbaijan to pieces, “drowns” for Azerbaijan, relations with Armenia, and even the smallest ones, are shattered into fragments. So what should we do?
    1. -6
      19 September 2023 08: 33
      Russia recognizes independence, in which case it assumes obligations to protect the population

      I am not a geopolitician or a strategist, please explain the relationship between recognition and protection
      1. -5
        19 September 2023 08: 41
        Quote: Vladimir80
        I am not a geopolitician or a strategist

        You are being too gentle with yourself. You're just a troll on payroll. Vova, aka "Svarog", to be continued...

        Quote: Vladimir80
        please explain the relationship between recognition and protection

        This is obvious to any normal, ahem, individual. If you get into a fight, defend yourself. It's good to troll. Vova negative
        1. 0
          21 September 2023 00: 53
          Does that mean you are ideological, Mr. Dichlorvos?
          Well, well, let's continue to observe)
      2. 0
        19 September 2023 10: 14
        I am not a geopolitician or a strategist
        ,Once again, Russia recognizes the independence of Karabakh. That’s all? And then leave it to chance? Whether you like it or not, Russia has a duty to protect the sovereignty of Karabakh, such as Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Explain for the third time? Yes, sometimes play at least checkers, Chapaev, for example.
        1. -2
          19 September 2023 11: 05
          independence of Karabakh. That's all? And then leave it to chance?

          Wagner? What can't they protect? Or is it more important in Africa (several thousand km away)?
          Or Iran for example? Or did Iran decide not to get involved?
          1. +1
            19 September 2023 17: 18
            Or Iran for example? Or did Iran decide not to get involved?
            Exactly. As if without Russia, Iran can recognize the independence of Karabakh in the same way and, at their request, send its troops there. But for some reason it doesn’t do this. Then why should Russia do this?
        2. 0
          19 September 2023 15: 54
          Russia recognizes the independence of Karabakh. And that’s it

          obligations to protect arise from bilateral treaties between states, for example, the Russian Federation recognizes the independence of Laos, but this does not mean that we are obliged to protect it from a hypothetical attack...
    2. +3
      19 September 2023 16: 40
      Contain Karabakh ?????
      And then a knife in the back.....
    3. +1
      19 September 2023 18: 23
      Quote: parusnik
      Three main players do not recognize the independence of Karabakh: Azerbaijan, Russia and Armenia.

      The United States, France, Great Britain, Iran and Pakistan, in addition to the leadership of Armenia led by Pashinyan, are in favor of Karabakh joining Azerbaijan. All these countries demand that Armenia leave Karabakh. The interests of Iran and the United States coincide in their desire to contain Turkey and prevent the creation of a direct transport corridor through Nakhichevan and Armenia between Turkey and the Turkic-speaking states of the Caucasus and Central Asia.
  11. +3
    19 September 2023 07: 56
    Given the current state of affairs in the Russian Federation, retaining Transcaucasia is already a problem, what can we say about the Caucasus. It was lost in the year 90 with the collapse of the Union. By and large, it’s a joke to him, as if he himself wouldn’t disappear into the full-blown cat, and then there’s still a headache about Armenia. If the Armenians are trying to make their state disappear, that’s their personal problem; Russia doesn’t care about that option. We are not hot, not cold. It's time to stop thinking according to the Union's criteria. The Russian Federation is not the USSR. Remove the base in Gyumri, our military is needed in Bryansk and Belgorod, and not to separate Armenians from Azeris on opposite sides of the barricade. NATO, or rather the United States, is also not comfortable getting into that mess, the experience of Afghanistan and Iraq is still in memory, but here are Iran, Kurds, Azerbaijanis, Armenians, Georgians, Turks and a dozen other peoples with their age-old claims to each other. In that tangle, Imperial Russia could rule with varying degrees of success, beating them en masse or individually, inspiring respect for its strength and weapons, and the USSR consistently pursuing a policy of internationalism, educating national personnel in Moscow, while suppressing very cruel local separatism, relying on its cadres. An American cowboy with a wad of dollars in one hand, a Coca-Cola in the other and a playboy magazine under his arm, will not resolve anything there, only make it worse, which is what is happening at the moment in that region.
    1. old
      +10
      19 September 2023 09: 25
      The lease period for the territory in Gyumri expires in 2025 and the Armenians are not going to renew it.
      We don’t have common borders, and with friends like them, we don’t need enemies... At the same time, their main postulate now is that the Russians are to blame for everything (we’ve already heard this somewhere).
      1. 0
        20 September 2023 16: 03
        made a mistake. Duration until 2044
    2. -1
      19 September 2023 10: 20
      It's time to stop thinking according to the Union's criteria. The Russian Federation is not the USSR.
      And the current leadership does not even think of such criteria. Peskov, our ideal, the Russian Empire, has already expressed itself. They are thinking with these criteria, to collect the lands of the former USSR, under the strong, royal hand. The collection is underway. But somehow it’s not very good, they are eager to go to the Republic of Ingushetia.
      1. +1
        19 September 2023 14: 23
        Try not to get involved with the Armenians, not to trust and act situationally. Guarding our base, if something unexpected happens, means using strong measures, but not leaving them weapons. Prevent them from transporting American weapons, block them in various ways
      2. 0
        19 September 2023 14: 25
        It is a big mistake to represent and advertise in the press that the Russian Federation is a Russian empire. For what purpose ?
      3. +2
        19 September 2023 17: 09
        Quote: parusnik
        And the current leadership does not even think of such criteria. Peskov, our ideal, the Russian Empire, has already expressed itself. They are thinking with these criteria, to collect the lands of the former USSR, under the strong, royal hand. The collection is underway. But somehow it’s not very good, they are eager to go to the Republic of Ingushetia.

        The current leadership, even before Tsarist Russia of the 17th year, is like walking to Mars. It’s not like gathering, lest the remaining ones run in different directions. Something will go wrong, according to the type of Prigozhin’s speech, where will Tatarstan with head Minnikhanov, Chechnya with Kadyrov, Bashkorostan with Khabirov and others rush, as the Subjects of the Russian Federation are now saying? I don’t know if Dallas said this or not, but there is no answer why this happened...
        But if our propaganda accurately and convincingly proves to the nationalities of Russia that each of them can exist speaking only their own language, this will be our victory, and the Russians will not be able to oppose anything to this victory
  12. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +3
      19 September 2023 10: 56
      Quote from crossbow
      Next in line is Kazakhstan.

      The Kazakhs, by the way, thoroughly cleaned up the British, giving uranium mining to Rosatom. The steppe respects strength (in fact, EVERYONE respects strength). Smart.
  13. -3
    19 September 2023 08: 36
    Quote: Unknown
    It was lost in the year 90 with the collapse of the Union. By and large, it’s a joke, lest we disappear into the chaos

    You are absolutely right to think first of all about your country and your people. P.S. And the collapse in the Caucasus began before the collapse of the USSR - interethnic conflicts began with the arrival of the hunchback.
  14. +3
    19 September 2023 08: 51
    Pashinyan had the only chance to become power - to sell himself to the CIA. He wanted power, he got it. But holding power is not the same as gaining it. Here we need to use other techniques. And they usually contradict what you just used)
    The CIA is not at all interested in feeding the Armenians. Use it - yes. Feed - no)) With the help of these guys, it makes sense to run into the presidency, hastily rob the country as much as possible, and run away. But the Tsrushki people are also aware of this, and Pashinyan will simply be killed if he tries to do that.
    So he only had one chance left. And not for some progress of something, but for your physical survival. Armenia itself now, thanks to its magnificent authorities, is nothing. Empty place. And Pashinyan is trying to make it something - a member of NATO, valued at least for this. For membership) Is this a working chance? Hardly. But he is Pashinyan’s only one...
    1. old
      +13
      19 September 2023 09: 18
      Pashinyan was re-elected after he first provoked a war and then lost it. So the Armenian people completely stand up to their legally elected prime minister.
      1. +1
        19 September 2023 10: 58
        Quote: old
        So the Armenian people completely stand up to their legally elected prime minister.

        Oh, and America will show “Kuzka’s mother” to the Armenians.
        1. +3
          19 September 2023 14: 33
          The Armenians will run away as usual. The existence of Armenia as a country is entirely on the conscience of the USSR. They would have run away with both ends long ago.
  15. +2
    19 September 2023 09: 36
    Apparently, Armenia is facing a complete loss of independence. I believe that the country will leave the CSTO, and Russia will not have to defend it.
    Economically, politically, territorially, Armenia is doomed. The country is among enemies, there are no resources, no economic base, the army is weak. The only industrial product is cognac. And then, the quality is so-so in recent years. The population is leaving their historical homeland en masse.
    In general, Armenia will face the fate of Poland - it will be divided like a pie.
    1. +1
      19 September 2023 10: 27
      A country among enemies, no resources, no economic base
      .There are resources, but there is no economic base, it was privatized like ours and liquidated like ours. A strong economic player can extract Armenian resources, but their extraction will cost a pretty penny
    2. +9
      19 September 2023 13: 37
      Outrageous. Why worry about Armenia??? Unhappy, among enemies, etc. ..... They really know how to make themselves poor!
      And thereby carefully extort money from others. The Armenian diaspora is the richest in the world! Let them chip in and build Hong Kong in Armenia!
      It costs them nothing to rebuild Armenia together.
      But they want to live in other regions, where it is more interesting, more profitable, more beautiful...
      Stop feeling sorry for Armenia, they are cunning, tenacious, resourceful, they will fool anyone by the nose.
    3. +2
      19 September 2023 19: 43
      The only industrial product is cognac.
      Which, by the way, is Churchill NOT drank - preferred Hine and Prunier.
  16. +1
    19 September 2023 09: 37
    Thank you Roman, you always have serious, analytical articles.
    1. +3
      19 September 2023 11: 05
      Quote: carpenter
      Thank you Roman, you always have serious, analytical articles.
      The guys “from there” don’t like how Roman picks them apart.
  17. +4
    19 September 2023 09: 46
    Well, okay, with the “alliance” with Iran it’s even more or less clear, although there are some nuances there, too. But Turkey is a NATO country that is independent exactly as much as its main partner in NATO allows, no matter what anyone says, otherwise the next military coup may end successfully, this is already in the realm of unscientific fiction, especially in the same team with Iran.
  18. +6
    19 September 2023 10: 29
    Turkey is not a friend of the Russian Federation; the Russian Federation has no friends except Belarus (I hope). I wonder how the United States has been able to conduct business thousands of kilometers from its border for so many years and whether there are such people in the Russian Federation who can act in the same way?
    1. +1
      19 September 2023 10: 58
      I wonder how the United States has been able to conduct business thousands of kilometers from its border for so many years

      The USA has large reserves of money.
      Are there people in the Russian Federation who can also act?

      It's not about people. And in finance.
      1. +1
        19 September 2023 14: 59
        Is it impossible to beat the USA? - I think it’s not just about the printing press, there’s a lot of money in Arabia too, but let’s say they don’t carry out coups in so-called Ecuador
        1. 0
          19 September 2023 16: 08
          It is possible to win only if there is an effective economy and an increase in the birth rate of the indigenous population (And this is possible for the Russian Federation only in one case - For the Russian Federation, only a left-wing economy (socialist/communist) is suitable, while the policy is preferably right-wing (conservative)
          in Arabia there is also a lot of money, but let’s say they don’t carry out coups in the so-called Ecuador

          Do they need it?
      2. +4
        19 September 2023 18: 33
        Even in people, states hire schoolchildren from all over the world for internships for free. Values ​​are instilled, we don’t do that, but in vain. Then, these schoolchildren become the elite and promote Amer’s interests in the regions. The USSR did this, Russia did not. Personnel decides everything. Not money, but an idea. And money is also an idea.
        1. 0
          19 September 2023 22: 16
          Very much even in people, states for internships for schoolchildren from all over the world
          Values ​​are instilled

          Well, that's right. For money.
          We don’t do that, but it’s in vain.

          Because there is not enough money for everything.
          Not money, but an idea. And money is also an idea.

          Well, money (consumerism) is like one of the ideas.
    2. +6
      19 September 2023 13: 30
      There are no friends in politics, there are partners. We don’t need Türkiye or some other country that loves us. We need Türkiye and other countries to cooperate with us on mutual interests.
  19. The comment was deleted.
    1. +3
      19 September 2023 11: 34
      Quote: MolonLabe
      I won’t comment on the article, I’ll just quote the telegram channel

      Do you have any quotes from sane politicians and serious publications?
    2. +7
      19 September 2023 13: 27
      Denial and scam are the main trump cards of the Armenian mentality. How many people in the Krasnodar Territory have they subjected to tragedies using their favorite techniques.
  20. +6
    19 September 2023 10: 38
    Ukraine was also a geopolitical trap for Russia, which had to be solved through diplomacy, bribery of officials and agents of influence. Unfortunately, we didn't figure it out.
    1. +7
      19 September 2023 13: 16
      You answered correctly. Ukraine was left to its own devices, they believed that it was nearby and would not go anywhere. But they didn’t understand that America really draws all nations to itself, a man who was there enthusiastically told us that we won’t live like this for a hundred years. Now the Russian Federation is rising, it is improving well, people are finding advantages in their country, thank God. When Russia is strong, rich with beautiful cities, then people will be drawn to it like America. Ukrainians constantly traveled around Europe, worked there, went to America, noted that it was better there, and therefore the population supported the revolution or coup.
      Only by intensively developing our country, eradicating alcohol, which has caused enormous mental damage to our country, people are no longer respected and treated with disgust, can we defeat everyone without weapons. When everyone wants to live in the Russian Federation, there will be a line of people willing, that will be a victory.
  21. +1
    19 September 2023 10: 45
    Maybe it's time to start giving the USA a nightmare? From our information field, only from the iron, they still don’t say that the USA is to blame for everything. From history we see who is more likely to be the global instigator of all conflicts, and who benefits from it. We already understood everything a long time ago. I think the whole world understands. But for some reason there are no real steps?! Let's work together to make life more fun for the United States, so that they can think about how to lift sanctions, how and where to sell their goods. Probably Turkey, we, Iran, China, Azerbaijan and some other countries could come up with a line that could calm down the Yankees!
  22. -1
    19 September 2023 11: 00
    I recently read an article that really had a sound idea - to quickly and harshly, together with Iran, destroy Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia so that, like 200 years ago, all issues in this region would be resolved only by the Russian Empire and Persia, and not by a bunch of mongrels and American litter. Without negotiations, red lines and other turbidity.
    1. +5
      19 September 2023 13: 16
      I'm sorry, but what did Azerbaijan do to you?
      1. +1
        19 September 2023 14: 56
        But they still stand there for each other - “ancient and proud” who found their so-called states only thanks to the Land of the Soviets, please excuse me.
    2. +6
      19 September 2023 13: 21
      Let Armenia itself deal with its neighbors; we should not waste our energy, but rather conserve it. Warn our military that there may be provocations on the part of the Armenians, they are masters of aerobatics, deceptions, crimes... But the main thing is to make sure that the Americans or NATO members do not arrive.
  23. 0
    19 September 2023 11: 19
    Of course, the United States will benefit from the conflict in Transcaucasia. However, NATO member Türkiye is unlikely to openly invade Armenia. Another question is that Erdogan may try to inflame the conflict through Azerbaijan. In the current situation, without a common border with Armenia, Russia can only use diplomacy and economic leverage. Azerbaijan needs a transport corridor to transport oil to Europe and this could provoke a conflict. It is unlikely that control of oil transportation through Armenia is a sufficient incentive for Azerbaijan to open war with Armenia. They will only create problems for themselves with both Iran and Russia.
  24. -1
    19 September 2023 11: 40
    Even during the Chechen wars, we demonstrated our attitude towards this region. Therefore, if the entire line of Transcaucasia is occupied by American troops, this will not be surprising.
  25. 0
    19 September 2023 12: 30
    Pashinyan plays with weak cards. Yes, there is a big guy with a club behind him, but he is not directly involved in the game. Pashinyan has weak cards because his uncle gave them to him behind his back. If Pashinyan and Co. If they send Russia, then he will be left alone, no, even one against two - Azerbaijan and Turkey. And they will work out the situation in their favor. Without any voluntary gestures from Pashinyan.
    There is also a second side to this. If Pashinyan falls under the stripes, Russia will reconsider relations and this will affect the economy of Armenia. How will Pashinyan go to the next elections with such baggage: damaged relations with Russia, worsening economic indicators, loss of territory, the risk of a big war with Turkey and Azerbaijan, and no chance with NATO and the EU. Who will re-elect him after this?! I suspect: the striped ones have the most delicious dirt on Pashinyan and they are simply forcing him to climb into the cage with the tigers. So he went with weak cards against the giants.
    1. +2
      19 September 2023 18: 53
      If Pashinyan falls under the stripes, Russia will reconsider relations and this will affect the economy of Armenia.
      If this happens, then Armenia will also lose Iran. Iran will also not put up with US bases nearby. The best option is that Iran and Azerbaijan divide Armenia, Pashinyan runs away to the Amers and from there guidoshi. Our base remains in Iran. We are negotiating with Iran regarding the base. And everyone is happy. Well, except for the Armenians. But they chose it themselves.
      1. +1
        20 September 2023 00: 37
        Iran will not divide Armenia with Azerbaijan. Iran is eating up both Azerbaijan and Armenia. They know this, that’s why they spin around like they’re in a frying pan. Their options are between Iran, Turkey and Russia. For the USA and the EU they are a bargaining chip, a bargaining chip, and this is how it always was and will always be. Of course, the United States will gladly mince both of them in order to distract Russia, otherwise they will face trouble in Ukraine. If Turkey wins as a result of this massacre, then NATO will automatically expand, gaining access to the Caspian Sea and the borders of Iran and Russia. At the same time, both Armenians and Azerbaijanis no longer exist.
  26. +4
    19 September 2023 12: 55
    Everyone is mistaken that Armenia is waiting for help from the United States, believing that it is the Anglo-Saxons who will help return Karabakh.
    The reason is that the Armenians want to be with the Anglo-Saxons, they prefer them and their perception. Even without Karabakh!
    They want to live like Americans, a lot of Armenians from the Russian Federation move to the USA and pull their own.
    Therefore, it is necessary to improve relations with Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Iran. Let Azerbaijan deal with Karabakh to the end.
    Do not beg or curry favor with the Armenians. And always expect veiled, sophisticated troubles from them
    1. 0
      19 September 2023 14: 57
      And according to my observations, there are few, very few. hi
  27. 0
    19 September 2023 12: 56
    Well, that’s it, it started in Karabakh! We didn’t disdain our own on mines to start the circus.
  28. 0
    19 September 2023 13: 28
    It started in Karabakh. We will see how far Azerbaijan goes
  29. -3
    19 September 2023 13: 40
    Pashinyan cannot behave differently. And the point is not at all that he doesn’t understand something, etc. He doesn’t need to understand anything. Because he is an agent of influence recruited by the CIA and Mi-6, brought to power by these intelligence services. Of course, he is fulfilling the task assigned to him - the collapse of the CSTO or at least the withdrawal of Armenia from the CSTO. And the ousting of Russia from the South Caucasus in general, as a stabilizing factor. At the same time, he is not interested in Armenia in any way, just like the Armenians. He doesn't care about them. He is working for his rich future in the West. I have already spoken about this many times. Russia's departure will mean a conflict between Azerbaijan, Armenia and Iran (on the Armenian side). But Türkiye and the United States (through the hands of Israel) will be on the side of Azerbaijan. Israel will supply weapons to Azerbaijan and directly launch air and missile attacks on Iran. Thus, Pashinyan is directly working against Armenia, which is assigned the role of a bargaining chip in this entire game.
    What can Russia do? Take measures to isolate Pashinyan. Send Russian troops into Yerevan. Block the military units there, the television and radio center. Address an appeal to the population, where to voice and show evidence of treason against Pashinyan’s homeland. You can’t just sit there and limit yourself to Zakharova’s bile speeches and Peskov’s spells. We'll lose everything. Incl. the last reputation of a strong power, from which, with such a foreign policy, only memories remain. All remaining Central Asian countries, starting with Kazakhstan, will leave the CSTO.
    1. +2
      19 September 2023 18: 41
      Why do we need Armenia? If the Armenians themselves are not eager to defend it? Are there a few problems at home? We need to put things in order at home. The Armenians elected their own power, let them flutter now. There are more of them living in Russia than in Armenia. Let them go and raise the country. Why do Russians pull chestnuts out of the fire?
  30. +5
    19 September 2023 14: 02
    Armenia and the USA know very well how they can help each other!
    There are many Armenians on the territory of the Russian Federation, they occupy leadership positions, have access to valuable information, to people who can be bribed, relatives and used for themselves. The Armenians can and probably secretly provide great assistance of an informational and sabotage nature.
    I don’t know whether the Russians realize that the Armenian diasporas are helping and collecting money for Armenia, for military operations from their entrepreneurs and other Armenians. All the scams they carry out are covered up, everything goes to Armenia. Thrift Armenians pay their way out of conscription or take second Armenian citizenship so as not to fight. And most importantly, all crimes related to extortion, theft, and fraud are supported in every possible way, since the “proceeds” go to their country.
    The Russian people, and most importantly the naive and drinking Russian people, are their main Cash Cow. They rely on the people for their enrichment; they will force them, threaten them, kill them, maim them, torture them, imprison them, but they will fish them out and squeeze Money out of them.
    1. +6
      19 September 2023 15: 34
      Did you come up with it yourself or was it a manual?
      There are really plenty of Armenians both in management and in trade, where do they spend the money they earn honestly - that’s their problem. At least to their homeland, or to girls - they have the right. And about the ethnic gangs of Armenian murderers and extortionists - thank you, laugh, burn more... We simply don’t need to get involved in these showdowns. From the word absolutely. We've had enough of the Bulgarian "brothers". Want help? Write an application to join Russia, then you will receive it.
      And the CSTO is the only military bloc about the emergence of which NATO was not indignant, the question is why? Yes, because this is essentially just a burden that Russia has shouldered for God knows why... It would be entirely possible to get by with bilateral agreements with REALLY friendly countries (Belarus, for example).
  31. +9
    19 September 2023 14: 53
    I have my own view on this. 10 years of service in the Transcaucasian Military District (Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan) motivate a certain attitude towards these “friends”. When they ask me who I would support in the conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia, I answer with the words of Mercutio from Shakespeare’s tragedy (A plague on both your houses) “Romeo and Juliet”: A plague on both your houses. Regarding friends, I agree with the British: Russia has no friends (except Serbia), Russia has only interests. Why do we need “allies” to whom we cannot turn our backs? According to the 2021 census, about one million Armenians live in Russia. Why do we need to keep our contingent there? The Armenians themselves do not want to fight for Artsakh. Do we need it? This is a suitcase without a handle, in fact, which also rests. Betrayal is betrayal...
  32. +4
    19 September 2023 16: 27
    We must understand, knowing the Armenian mentality, that they will take revenge on ordinary Russians in any suitable situation, either extorting money, or obstructing, boycotting, or through their rumors disseminating information discrediting a person, taking a payoff, they take revenge mercilessly - this is a beast.
    Same with them.
  33. +2
    19 September 2023 16: 34
    Today Armenia, represented by the same Pashinyan, is rushing into the arms of the United States.
    Yes, Armenia has always been eager to embrace the United States. Let's not forget that, speaking about the centuries-old friendship with us, Armenian politicians began to focus on the United States from the beginning of the 20th century. After World War I, the Armenian delegation went out of its way at the Paris Peace Conference to become a US mandate. President Wilson himself promised the Armenians that this would happen. But at that time there was no powerful Armenian lobby in the US Congress. And the US Congress did not support its president, refusing to take Armenia under mandate control.
    But by the time of the collapse of the USSR, the Armenian lobby in the US Congress was already the second most influential, after the Israeli one. Let me remind you that from 1,5 to 2,5 million Armenians live in the United States. And there are no poor among them. The Armenian lobby in the US Congress is the second most influential after the Israeli one.
    Pashinyan, Pashinyan!!! What does Pashinyan have to do with it??
    The only difference between Pashinyan and Sargsyan is that Pashinyan sometimes allows himself to say what he thinks.
    Is it under Pashinyan that the US Embassy in Armenia reached 2,5 personnel?
    Was it Pashinyan who allowed the United States to equip American bacteriological laboratories in Armenia that collect DNA samples ??
    Is it Pashiyan who was awarded a special medal in the USA: "Ellis Island Medal" (a public medal, but recognized by the US Congress and highly respected, there is practically not a single former US President who has not been awarded this medal), which is given "for a special contribution to the development of relations this or that state with the USA ".
    But Sargsyan received such a medal back in 2011, during his visit to the United States. Apparently just for allowing the activity of US bacteriological laboratories on the territory of Armenia. As soon as he assumed the post of President of Armenia (in 2008), he allowed it (in 2009). By the time Sargsyan left, there were already 12 such US bacteriological laboratories in Armenia. By the way, he is the first and so far the only foreign President to be awarded such a medal.
    Is it Pashinyan, on the day of the national holiday of Armenia on May 28, 2016, with his entire retinue in the center of Yerevan, was opening a monument to Nazi Nzhdeh? No, Pashinyan was nothing then. And the monument to Nazi Nzhdeh was opened by Serzh Sargsyan and his retinue.
    Sargsyan and all previous presidents of Armenia, just like Pashinyan, focused exclusively on the United States. But they knew how to keep their mouths shut and did not forget to periodically loudly praise Russia.
    But we should not forget that Armenia is a member of the CSTO, and its plenipotentiary representative in this organization, Grigoryan, is one of those who are ready to vote with their hands and feet for the dissolution of the CSTO and joining NATO.
    And what ? We just need to exclude Armenia from the CSTO. Delov then get together and vote.
  34. 0
    19 September 2023 16: 36
    Quote: Lis_Domino
    There are really plenty of Armenians both in leadership and in trade, where do they spend the money earn money honestly - These are their problems.

    I earn money honestly laughing laughing laughing
    Thanks, I laughed. Good joke hi
    1. -2
      19 September 2023 17: 02
      Do you have evidence of their dishonest work? Are you ready to provide them where they should be?
      or are you just... blowing air?
      In any nationality there are different people. and it is unnecessary to paint everyone with the same brush.
      1. +1
        20 September 2023 13: 43
        Elementary logic.
        Any trade and procurement activity, both at the end of the USSR and in the Russian Federation, especially in the first 20 years of the existence of the Russian Federation, was carried out with varying degrees of violation of the law. The same applies to the execution of government procurement contracts.
        So, if everyone at the market committed certain violations, that means the Armenians did too. Otherwise, they would not have gotten rich to such an extent (for example, Tashir), but the buyers would have gone bankrupt, unable to withstand the competition.
        So why did you decide to announce that “but the Armenians earned their money honestly”??? fool
        Similarly, the not fair earned money. And since we now have a huge mass of “successful” Armenian entrepreneurs, we can conclude that their degree of dishonesty was even higher than the national average.
  35. -4
    19 September 2023 17: 08
    Let's just compare the striking force of the two nations' knives in the back of Russia and its (Russia's, respectively) reaction to this. After all, according to Newton's third law, the action force must be equal to the reaction force. But apparently the laws of physics don’t work here.
    Just the facts.
    Actions on the part of Turkey and Azerbaijan (we will not separate one people - two states):
    1. Let's start with old times. Historians agree that from 150 to 000 Russians were sold into slavery by the Turks in the first half of the 200th century alone. Documentary sources from that period reveal how the Turks, during raids in southern Russia, ravaged entire villages, killing or selling most of the population.
    2. In general, the Russian-Turkish wars cover a period of 351 years (1568-1918). During this period, Russia and Turkey were at war for 69 years and fought more than 12 times.
    3. On January 9, 1918, near the village of Shamkhor (30 kilometers from present-day Ganja), the Tatars (Azerbaijanis) captured and slaughtered more than 4 Russian soldiers and officers returning home from the Caucasian Front.
    4. 1973 - Azerbaijani Chingis Yunus-ogly Rzayev commits the largest terrorist act in the history of the USSR (airplane explosion, 80 dead).
    5. 1990 - expulsion of more than 100 Russians from Baku. (the documentary “You Can’t Live Like This,” directed by Stanislav Govorukhin, confirms the expulsion of Russians from Baku).
    6. 2012 – expulsion of the Russian military base (radar) from Azerbaijan (Gabala)
    7. 2015 - destruction of the Russian Su-24 by the Turks in Syria (crew commander Oleg Peshkov). While evacuating the bodies, the Turks shot down a Russian Mi-8 helicopter.
    8. 2016 – Russian Ambassador to Turkey Karlov was killed by the Turks.
    9. 2020 – Azerbaijan shoots down a Russian Mi-24 helicopter. Death of the entire crew.
    10. 2023 – Türkiye, despite the agreements, releases the Azov commanders. In addition, both Turks and Azerbaijanis supply weapons and fuels and lubricants to the combat zone.
    11. The actual establishment of several military bases on the territory of Azerbaijan and the absorption of the Azerbaijani army by the armed forces of Turkey - now NATO is not far from Derbent.
    12. The Turkish-Azerbaijani tandem in all international organizations (UN, European Parliament, etc.) has always voted against Russia.
    13. Direct clashes between Turkish forces and Russian forces in Syria.
    Peskov’s reaction (collective image) - “We understand the position of our Turkish colleagues”
    Actions on the part of Armenia.
    1. The Armenian people clearly took the Russian side in all wars between Russia and the Ottoman Empire, for which they were accused by the Ottoman government of committing the Genocide.
    2. Every third Armenian man living on the territory of the USSR died in the Great Patriotic War (1941-45).
    3. Since 1995, one of the largest Russian military bases has been located on the territory of Armenia (by the way, this is the first military base created outside of Russia after the collapse of the USSR).
    4. Since 2015, Armenia has been a member of the EAEU (economic union with Russia).
    5. Since 2003, Armenia has been a member of the CSTO (military alliance with Russia).
    6. Armenia has never voted against Russia in all international organizations (UN, European Parliament, etc.).
    7. In the 90s, Armenia transferred almost all energy (including a nuclear power plant), gas transportation system, and railway to management.
    8. Armenia does not call Russians who arrived in the country occupiers and shows the hospitality and sincerity characteristic of our people.
    Peskov’s reaction (collective image) - “We do not agree with the position of the Armenian leadership and would like to remind you that there are more Armenians living in Russia than in Armenia.”
    Conclusion. Idealists are betrayed. Pragmatists are inevitably respected. Let's learn this lesson - there is hope for a brighter future.
    1. 0
      19 September 2023 18: 09
      Quote: Garegin
      2. In general, the Russian-Turkish wars cover a period of 351 years (1568-1918). During this period, Russia and Turkey were at war for 69 years and fought more than 12 times.
      Most of all we fought with the Lithuanians. Since we had a period of feudal fragmentation, and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was a single state, it attacked this or our principality almost every year. Well, our principalities periodically responded with campaigns against the Lithuanians. In total there were more than 40 Russian-Lithuanian military conflicts. And not all of them are counted.
      Then the Poles come. About 20 wars, including their three Polish uprisings, which were steeper in scale than our other war with Turkey (1794 - Kosciuszko uprising; 1830-1831 November uprising; 1863-1864 January uprising).
      Then there are wars with the Swedes. 17 wars, not counting the border conflicts of 1375-1396.
      And only then are the Russian-Turkish wars (12 wars). Moreover, in 8 wars we were the initiators, in 3 - Turkey, and one war (World War I) began, as it were, mutually. First, the provocations of Armenian fideas that crossed from our territory to the territory of Turkey, then the shelling of our coastal cities with ships under Turkish flags, then we declared war on Turkey.
      Yes, I forgot, about how many battles various Russian principalities had with the crusaders - even history does not remember about that.
      By duration, the longest are not Russian-Ottoman, but Russian-Polish wars. In total, we fought with the Poles for over 100 years.
      The bloodiest are the Russian-German wars. In total, the Germans accounted for two world wars - over 30 million lives of our compatriots.
      The Ottomans never made us such tricks as:
      - Swedes after the miserable battle for us at Fraustadt, held on February 2, 1706 (Julian calendar); February 3, 1706 (Swedish calendar); February 13, 1706 (Gregorian calendar) when the victorious Swedes stabbed 4 of our prisoners with cold steel.
      “In the battle of Fraustadt, an incomprehensible, truly bestial cruelty of the Swedes was revealed regarding the Russians. Indeed, in this combined army of the Saxon general Schulenburg, who suffered such a rout, there were Saxons, Poles, and even the French, who served in the Saxon army, and, finally, the Russians. After their victory (February 3, 1706), the Swedish army captured all those who were not killed and did not have time to escape. Everyone except the Russians! "Many Russians were beaten as well, and which of the soldiers were taken to full, and with those the enemy zealously acted mercilessly, according to the royal decree issued before about them, so as not to give them pardon (or mercy), and scolding people 2 and 3 "they stabbed one another with their spears and baguettes (bayonets. - E. T.). In such a barbaric way, the Swedes exterminated 4 thousand disarmed Russian prisoners after the battle." E.V. Tarle, "The Northern War and the Swedish invasion of Russia";

      - Germans who attacked us without declaring war on 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX. The Ottomans, if they themselves started, first, by all the rules, declared war on us, and hostilities began somewhere in half a year after the announcement. And even later.
      - Poles who literally crap the Kremlin churches.
      So why should we assume that the Ottomans are worse than the Swedes, Poles or Germans?
      And that’s what’s characteristic. Of the 12 wars, only 3 were started (initiated) by the Turks. And even by the standards of modern international law, the very first Turkish-Russian war was legal. Since we took and annexed Astrakhan, which had never belonged to us before, to our country. The family of Astrakhan khans ran to Constantinople and fell at the feet of the Sultan. And it should be noted that since the time of Selim Yavuz, the Turkish Sultans, so to speak, also moonlighted as Caliphs. And the Caliph is obliged to protect all the faithful. So the Sultan Caliph sent an army to “restore justice.” But luck was not on his side. And Astrakhan is still ours.
      Actually, the other two Turkish-Russian wars, initiated by the Turks themselves, were their attempts to at least slightly repel what the Turks lost in the previous Russian-Turkish war.
    2. 0
      19 September 2023 18: 19
      Edievsky’s essay was used by J.V. Stalin. He is in the newspaper Pravda No. 55 and 56; dated March 26 and 27, 1918, he gave a long article “Counter-revolutionaries of Transcaucasia under the guise of socialism” in which, blasting the Mensheviks, he stated:
      “We declare that among the culprits of the Elizabethan events, the former leader of the Caucasian Social Democracy, now the so-called“ father of the Georgian nation ”—Noy Nikolaevich Zhordania, should be named. It was under his chairmanship that the presidium of the regional center decided to disarm passing trains and arm national regiments at their expense. A telegram was sent under his signature to the Elizabeth Muslim Muslim National Committee on the disarmament of echelons that had accumulated near Shamkhor. He, Noah Jordania, sent delegations from Tiflis with the same order to disarm the echelons. This was officially stated by a member of the delegation as a soldier Krupko at a crowded meeting of the Civil Committee in Elizavetpol. Noah Zhordania and his always assiduous assistant N. Ramishvili sent an armored train led by Abkhazava, who distributed weapons to Muslims and helped them shoot thousands of soldiers and disarm trains.
      Noah Jordania is justified by the fact that he did not sign telegrams. Dozens of people, Armenians and Muslims, claim that the telegram is signed by him and that this telegram exists. Zhordania said that he, having learned about the complications, spoke with Abkhazava by telephone, asking him not to disarm the echelons by force and let them in. Abkhazava is killed; this statement cannot be verified, but we admit that the conversation was ...
      If you leave the dead, to whom, according to the proverb, you can blame everything, there are living witnesses who refute the testimony of Jordan and confirm both the address of the telegram and the signature of Jordan and the sending of the delegation with the order to disarm, etc.
      Why doesn't Zhordania hold them accountable if they tell lies? Why do he and his friends want to “hush up the matter”? “... No, citizens of Zhordania, Ramishvili and KO, you bear a heavy responsibility for the blood of thousands of soldiers killed on January 7-12. Can you justify yourself in this serious crime? But we are not talking about personal justification. Zhordania interests us in this case not as a person, but as the leader of a party making policy in Transcaucasia, as the most authoritative and responsible representative of the Transcaucasian government. He did his criminal deed, firstly, by order of the presidium of the regional center and the Interethnic Council and, secondly, undoubtedly, with the knowledge of the Transcaucasian Commissariat. The accusation that we throw in the face of Jordania extends to the entire Menshevik party, to the regional center, to the Transcaucasian Commissariat, where Messrs. Chkhenkeli and Gegechkori, in a close and open bloc with Muslim beks and khans, are doing everything to destroy the revolution. We are talking about Zhordania and Ramishvili because their names are associated with telegrams, with orders, with the dispatch of a “robber” armored train. An investigation should begin with them to clarify the truth. But there are still names that must be named, there is another nest of criminals that must be swept away...” Further I.V. Stalin proceeds to denounce the Musavatists.

      So, I.V. Stalin in his article “Counter-revolutionaries of Transcaucasia under the guise of socialism” published in the newspaper Pravda No. 55 and 56; dated March 26 and 27, 1918, decided to cite (or the editors of Pravda decided to cite) excerpts from the “Baku newspapers.” Which in turn, as we remember, were based on an essay by Stanislav Edievsky, which he published in the Baku newspaper on January 31, 1918.
    3. 0
      19 September 2023 18: 22
      Continuation about Shamkhor.
      With all due respect to J.V. Stalin, one cannot help but note that for political purposes he sometimes allowed himself to manipulate numbers considerably. So, for example, already in his address of July 3, 1941, I.V. Stalin stated:
      “Despite the heroic resistance of the Red Army, despite the fact that the enemy’s best divisions and the best units of his aviation have already been defeated and have found their grave on the battlefield...”

      In his Report at the ceremonial meeting of the Moscow Council of Workers' Deputies with party and public organizations of the city of Moscow on November 6, 1941, comrade. J.V. Stalin cited the following figures
      : “During 4 months of the war, we lost 350 thousand people killed and 378 thousand people missing, and we have 1 million 20 thousand people wounded. During the same period, the enemy lost more than 4 and a half million people killed, wounded and captured.”

      As they say, if only it were half like this...
      That is, to take on faith the figures cited by politicians in support of some of their political calculations is at least naive. You need to understand that politics is a dirty business and the numbers in it are also often crafty.
      But besides the numbers in the article by I.V. Stalin has a different texture that should interest us.
      1. Noah Zhordania and his always unreasonably zealous assistant N. Ramishvili sent
      armored train led by Abkhazava
      2. Abkhazava was killed….

      That is, the main character - the commander of the armored train - was killed. As we understand it,
      we should be talking about the same armored train, which in the essay by Stanislav Edievsky is called “armored train” and “armored car”.
      There was a fight with an armored train, and as a result the armored car was destroyed and killed
      his commander, his servants were killed.
      This means that there was a serious battle at the Shamkhor station, as a result of which a Georgian armored train was defeated and its servants (crew) led by the commander were killed. This should have been a really serious battle, since during the civil war there were not many cases when armored trains with their entire crew were killed. Who could the Georgian armored train fight with and die? Apparently with those against whom he was sent - against our soldiers returning from the front.

      I would like to immediately note one more oddity from Stanislav Edievsky’s essay.
      Our echelons surrendered... after smashing the armored car to gangs of robbers...

      Whose trains surrendered after the Georgian armored train was destroyed? The echelons of our soldiers returning from the front, who smashed this very armored train? This statement by S. Yedievsky looks very strange - why would our victorious soldiers, who had just crashed an armored train and killed its crew, for no apparent reason suddenly begin to surrender to certain “gangs of robbers”? The question arises: what train did the author of the essay travel with?
      Let's once again go through Stanislav Edievsky's essay and identify all his “dark places”.
      Here is S.E. writes:
      “It was not the damage to the track that caused the trains to stop, but the armored train standing in front, which demanded the disarmament of the trains.”


      This is true as it is confirmed by other sources. This is the same Georgian armored train under the command of Captain Abkhazav, which was sent by the Transcaucasian Commissariat to disarm our trains.

      Further, as we have already said, S.E. writes:
      “There was a battle with an armored train, and as a result the armored car was destroyed, its commander was killed, and the servants were killed...”


      Interrupted by whom? Musavatists? No !! The Musavatists were together with the Georgian armored train. This means that our front-line soldiers, who had 20 guns with them, smashed the Georgian armored train. That is, there was no disarmament of the soldiers, but a serious battle. In which our front-line soldiers smashed a Georgian armored train, killing its crew (servants) and shot the commander of the armored train, Captain Abkhazava.
    4. +1
      19 September 2023 18: 24
      Continuation about Shamkhor
      What S.E. writes further? And then he starts writing something completely illogical.
      “And at that time, something happened that no one expected. Our echelons surrendered... after smashing the armored car to gangs of robbers... Until the last moment we did not know that the front echelons were surrendering. We all believed that “our "They will protect us. And when part of the gang of robbers approached our train demanding to give up their weapons, the soldiers of our train refused to obey..."


      That is, S.E. writes that supposedly after our front-line soldiers won a victory over a Georgian armored train that stood in their way, the echelons of front-line soldiers suddenly began to surrender to someone?!
      Nonsense? Obvious nonsense!!!
      Moreover, S.E. I personally did not see that the trains with front-line soldiers standing somewhere in front of his train were supposedly surrendering. S.E. he himself made this conclusion simply from the fact that their civilian train did not come to defend the front-line soldiers from “their” echelons.
      It should be noted that the front-line soldiers did not seem to promise protection to the civilian train, which approached the echelons of front-line soldiers from behind and stood somewhere behind, apparently at a decent distance.
      Moreover, the front-line soldiers could have assumed that by the time of the battle the civilian train was already completely empty, since the witness himself writes that:
      “Some of the passengers on our train decided to return to Tiflis, while the rest expressed a desire to travel further...”

      Unfortunately S.E. does not mention exactly how some of the passengers decided to return to Tiflis and did so. What, a second locomotive approached the passenger train, attached some of the cars to itself and dragged them back to Tiflis? Or did some of the passengers get out and go to Tiflis on foot, along the sleepers? Or did you hire carts from local residents?
      And actually what “part of the passengers” left the train? 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90% ?
      But observant front-line soldiers, of course, saw that passengers were leaving the civilian train and could well have considered it empty. And, in the end, why should front-line soldiers returning home from the front care about some civilian train? Well, if they rob him, then let them rob him. What do front-line soldiers care if someone somewhere is robbing someone?
      Let us also pay attention to this testimony of Stanislav Edievsky:
      "And when part of the gang of robbers approached our train demanding that we hand over our weapons, the soldiers of our train refused to obey".

      Are some “soldiers of our train” appearing here? What kind of soldiers are these? Front-line soldiers returning from the front? It’s unlikely that the front-line soldiers, as he himself indicated, traveled in trains. Then what kind of soldiers are these, traveling on his passenger train and about whom the front-line soldiers had nothing to do? Who were actually robbed and killed by the “Tatars”. These soldiers could well have been soldiers of the already newly formed Georgian army or even the newly formed Armenian army. However, among them could have been our so-called “wealthy front-line soldiers” from the economic units of the rear of the front. Who had something to rob.
    5. 0
      19 September 2023 18: 26
      Continuation about Shamkhor
      Let us once again carefully read this expression by S.E.:

      “Many walked ahead in their shirts, hungry, robbed, beaten... The wealthy became beggars, the healthy lost their health, became crippled. The soldiers alone accounted for 600 killed and wounded...”

      Please note that in this, as well as in the previous case, S.E. does not specify the affiliation of the soldiers. And we know that echelons of front-line soldiers tried to stop:
      1) Georgian armored train;
      2) a Georgian regiment, in which Georgian Armenians most likely also served, since, for example, Tiflis at that time was 3/4 an Armenian city. In addition: We read in the magazine “Karabakh 88” the article by V. Sargsyan “SAMTSKHE-JAVAKHK and NORTHERN LORI: how they lose their homeland...” and come across paragraph No. 12
      “... It is noteworthy that in 1917, during the nationalization of the army in Transcaucasia, the Armenians of Sgnakh or Gori were called up to the Georgian regiments, and the Armenians of Akhalkalak and Borchalu (North Lori) were called up only to the Armenian regiments ((9) 1928, April 28, . 89.) ... "
      This means, most likely, there WERE Armenians in the Georgian regiment.
      3) Musavatists and peasants.
      Let's assume that the Musavatists have not yet had time to acquire a uniform. The peasants certainly did not have uniforms.
      But the soldiers of the Georgian armored train and the Georgian regiment most likely wore exactly the same uniform as the returning front-line soldiers, since there was simply no other.
      Since our witness mentioned above that: “There was a battle with an armored train, and as a result the armored car was destroyed, its commander was killed, the servants were killed...”, then our witness at least should have seen the killed servants of the Georgian armored train on his way. And at the most - the killed servants of the Georgian armored train mixed with the killed soldiers of the Georgian regiment, who supported the attack of the Georgian armored train on the trains of front-line soldiers, killed Musavatists and killed front-line soldiers.

      The personnel (servants, as a witness writes) of the armored train during the First World War and the Civil War was at least 100 people. Plus a landing force of 300-400 people (which actually could have been a Georgian regiment). In the Red Army during the Civil War, to increase the efficiency of armored trains, landing detachments of 321 people were formed for each armored train.
      In total, if the servants and the commander of the Georgian armored train were killed, that’s already 100 people killed. If the Georgian regiment suffered losses, that’s another 50-100 people killed (I believe that the rest fled like rabbits).
      The Musavatists suffered some losses.
      Some soldiers were also killed, from among the unknown soldiers traveling on the passenger train.
      Most likely, the front-line soldiers also suffered losses, but since the front-line soldiers usually returned from the front in entire units, that is, in close-knit front-line teams, they most likely took their dead with them for proper burial.
    6. 0
      19 September 2023 18: 28
      Continuation about Shamkhor.
      Are there other sources of information?
      Eat !!
      At that time there was such a pilot A. M. Ter-Martirosov, who took an active part in the work of the Caucasian Aviation School in Tiflis, and participated in the work of the Third Caucasian Aviation Detachment. Source and details: http://www.airaces.ru/drugie-rossijjskie-aviatory/ter-martirosov-aleksandr-mikhajjlovich.html
      We read.
      On January 4, the "Transcaucasian Commissariat" formed and sent to the Shamkhor station a special detachment to carry out forcible disarmament, which included an armored train and a Musavatist equestrian division. This detachment between the stations Dalyar and Shamkhor dismantled the railway track. When 5 echelons approached the bridge, they could not move further. The Musavatists suddenly attacked the soldiers, started killing them and taking away their weapons. Up to a thousand Russian soldiers died in this battle. Many of the wounded died without assistance. Gangs of Musavatists and Mensheviks plundered and burned the trains.

      The news of this bloody massacre reached Tiflis. Ter-Martirosov and his friends were outraged. They decided to send a reconnaissance plane to clarify the actual events with the permission of the Caucasian Army Council. The plane did not return. According to eyewitnesses, when the plane approached the Shamkhor station, where the fighting continued, Musavat gangs from the ground opened rifle and machine-gun fire on it and knocked it out. The pilot made an emergency landing near the battle site. Riders from the gang quickly arrived at the plane's landing site, seized the pilot and the flight engineer and, after a short interrogation, shot them.

      The Shamkhor events greatly worried the Bolsheviks of Transcaucasia. On January 7, the regional committee of the party invited the Extraordinary Commissar of the Caucasus S. Shaumyan to come from Baku to Tiflis to take measures against the atrocities of the counter-revolution led by N. Jordania. On the same day at 5 o’clock in the morning, by order of the “Transcaucasian Commissariat”, the Mensheviks secretly sent an armored train from Tiflis to the Karayazy station, led by Gobechia Andguladze and with part of the Georgian National Regiment to disarm the trains coming from the front. They were ordered to shoot everyone without exception if they refused to surrender their weapons.

      On January 8, the Tiflis Bolshevik Committee sent a second reconnaissance plane to the Akstafa-Shamkhor area. When the plane approached the Shamkhor area, fierce fighting continued there. The bandits opened fire and set it on fire. The burning plane crashed near the station. The pilots were apparently killed in the air. The Tiflis committee and the Bolsheviks of the aviation school never received their scouts.

      January 8 morning St. Shaumyan arrived in Ganja by train. The road to Tiflis was closed. Musavatists surrounded the passenger train. Shaumyan sent instructions to Tiflis and Baku to take urgent measures against the unleashed counter-revolutionary gangs.

      The Caucasian Regional and Tiflis Committees of the Bolsheviks decided to send another plane to reconnaissance events in the Shamkhor region and send a letter to Art. Shaumyan. This time the choice fell on Alexander Ter-Martirosov as an experienced pilot-instructor. On January 12, 1918, a two-seater Nieuport aircraft took off from an airfield near Tbilisi, piloted by Ter-Martirosov with pilot-observer A. Litvinov. The course was taken by the Tiflis-Baku railway. Both pilots carefully watched everything that happened on the railroad bed and in the villages nearby. When the plane began to approach Agstafa, they began to fire at it from all sides. Then Ter-Martirosov, gaining a safe height, began to inspect and record everything that happened below. Litvinov did the same. The following entry appeared in the notebook: “There are 7 echelons with troops on the railway to Agstafa. Fights are going on closer to Astafa and near Shamkhor. There are fires in the villages closest to the railway. At stations and half-stations, there are many burned-out and wrecked cars. Their fragments are lying around. Some of the paths have been dismantled. Some cars continue to burn. There are many corpses and traces of robbery ... ”.
    7. 0
      19 September 2023 18: 29
      The ending about Shamkhor.
      Having made several passes over Akstafa, Dalyar, Shamkhor, in order to better examine and report in more detail on the events to Shaumyan and the Tiflis Committee, Alexander Mikhailovich headed for Ganja. When approaching the airfield in the Azerbaijani part of the city, the plane was fired upon by Musavatists. The pilots were not given the opportunity to land. Then Ter-Martirosov decided to perform it in the Armenian part of the city. After all, he was a native of Ganja and knew the location of the city well. Having chosen a place, he took the plane to land on the river bank under rifle and machine-gun fire. The shelling intensified. The plane received 7 bullet holes. As soon as the propeller stopped, people ran up to the plane from different directions to help. Among them were Askanaz and Vaginak Mravyan. They were very surprised to recognize their friend and neighbor Ter-Martirosov in the pilot. Ropes were immediately obtained and, under fire from the Musavatists, the plane was dragged into shelter. The Mravyan pilots were taken to their home, where S. G. Shaumyan was located.


      Source and details: http://www.airaces.ru/drugie-rossijjskie-aviatory/ter-martirosov-aleksandr-mikhajjlovich.html
      So, what did the pilot Ter-Martirosov see from above? He saw that there were 7 echelons of troops along the railway to Akstafa. There are battles taking place closer to Astafa and near Shamkhor. There are fires in the villages closest to the railway. There are many burnt out and broken cars at stations and half-stations. Their fragments are lying around. Some of the tracks have been dismantled. Some carriages continue to burn. You can see many corpses and traces of robbery...
      Why do today's Armenians prefer to look at the situation through the eyes of the editors of Baku newspapers, and not through the eyes of their compatriot Ter-Martirosov?
      Most likely, because Ter-Martirosov simply honestly stated: “the cars continue to burn. You can see a lot of corpses and traces of robbery...", but did not indicate that there were a lot of corpses of refugees and Russian soldiers. Again. The observer pilot, an Armenian by nationality, indicated that he could see “corpses” from above. Why should we assume that among these corpses there was not a single corpse from the attacking fighters of the Georgian national regiment or the Musavat division? Only because later, clearly for political reasons, J.V. Stalin spoke only about the dead front-line soldiers?
      But there is another study on this topic.
      Historian V.P. Buldakov describes what happened based on materials from the investigative commission:
      “Russian troops leaving the front left some of their weapons to the Armenians, who were forced to think more than others about the danger of a Turkish invasion. This made the Azerbaijanis nervous. On January 9 (new style), 1918, at the Shamkhor station, one of the military echelons was stopped by a barrage detachment with an armored train of the Transcaucasian Regional Council. Over the course of two days, while negotiations were ongoing, thousands of Azerbaijani peasants, counting on their share of weapons, and, on the other, three more military echelons, gathered at the station, on the one hand. Shooting began, one of the shells hit a huge tank of oil. Burning oil poured into the lowland, where the Azerbaijanis were located with their carts. Soon, several more containers with fuel exploded, after which the flames engulfed some of the carriages, including those on the oncoming passenger train heading to Tiflis. The number of those killed and burned alive on both sides could not be calculated, but the victims numbered in the thousands.”

      This is what the pilot Ter-Martirosov actually saw from the air.
      So, based on everything analyzed, the following conclusions can be drawn:
      1. Stanislav Edievsky is at least a strange witness. There is a suspicion that
      showing cowardice - having abandoned his “missing” wife, he began to say anything to justify himself in the eyes of... well, perhaps in the eyes of his wife’s relatives, her and his friends and acquaintances.
      2. There was a serious battle at the station, as a result of which those breaking through home, in
      Russia, front-line soldiers smashed a Georgian armored train, killed its crew, killed and partially dispersed the Georgian regiment and the Musavatist “division,” while many civilians from passenger trains and the local Tatar (Azerbaijani) population died. Most likely, the front-line soldiers also suffered some losses.
      3. Where have the front-line soldiers gone? I believe that the front-line soldiers successfully broke through further into
      Russia. Indeed, how many cases were there at the end of 1917 and beginning of 1918 when someone managed to disarm the trains of front-line soldiers returning from the front? Moreover, in this episode the front-line soldiers had with them not only rifles, grenades and machine guns, but also 20 artillery pieces.

      [/ Center]
    8. +1
      19 September 2023 18: 42
      I no longer have the moral strength to delve further into all this lies. Let's move on to something else, something positive... but also a lie.
      1. The Armenian people clearly took the Russian side in all wars between Russia and the Ottoman Empire, for which they were accused by the Ottoman government of committing the Genocide.

      Really? And what percentage of the Armenian people definitely took our side in all wars with the Ottoman Empire? According to the census of 1840, there were 2 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire? How many Armenians were definitely on our side in the Crimean War? And in the war of 1877-1878. ? Several thousand? Or even less?


      2. Every third Armenian man living on the territory of the USSR died in the Great Patriotic War (1941-45).

      How limitless are the fantasies of unscrupulous Armenians who disgrace the hardworking Armenian people!!!!!!
      Moreover, unscrupulous Armenians lie, disgracing the Armenian people, even where it seemed absolutely impossible to lie. They lie about the most sacred thing - about those who died in the war. Unscrupulous Armenians, disgracing the Armenian people with their dead, do not even hesitate to earn what they think are political points from this.
      https://rusarminfo.ru/2020/02/23/300-tysyach-armyan-pogibli-vo-imya-pobedy-v-erevane-proshel-vecher-russkogo-romansa/
      This is where this figure came from - 300 thousand Armenians who died in the war??? Even if in the version of “irretrievable losses”, that is, those who simply did not return from the war?
      What unscrupulous Armenian invented it and undertook to distribute it???
      Here on the official website of our Ministry of Defense there is a completely different figure.
      https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=10335989%40cmsArticle
      The irretrievable losses of the Armenians are 83,7 thousand.
      Is there a difference between 83,7 thousand and 300 thousand???
      Moreover, 83,7 thousand are not only those killed in battles with the Nazis.
      83,7 thousand - this is the total number of Armenians who did not return from the war both to the Armenian SSR and in general to the edges of the regions and other republics of the USSR.
      Including in the figure of 83,7 thousand there are those Armenians who went over to the side of the Nazis and died fighting against the Red Army.
      There are also those Armenians who were taken prisoner and remained after the war in the West without making themselves known. Well, maybe relatives know, but statistics do not know.
      There are those Armenians who simply deserted in the vast expanses of the USSR, changed their surname and even possibly changed their nationality.
      There are those who were shot by the verdicts of military tribunals or even without verdicts, right on the battlefield for cowardice and an attempt to escape from the battlefield.
      God grant that those who died on the battlefield or did not die in battle, but let there be at least 50 thousand under bombs or even as a result of an accident or from a knife of a criminal element in the near rear.
      But unscrupulous Armenians, who have nothing sacred in their souls and disgrace the Armenian people, lie and lie about their supposedly 300-hundred-thousand-thousand victims from year to year, without hesitation.
      Now we count the Armenian count backwards. They say that every second person died. If there were 50 thousand dead on the battlefield (or near the battlefield), then that means 100 thousand were called up. Well, if we count from everyone who did not return from the war, then that means 83 x 7 = 2 thousand people. And this is the theoretical maximum of persons of Armenian nationality called up for war.


      And that’s how it is with you in everything. Everywhere there is only lies, lies and lies.
    9. -1
      19 September 2023 18: 57
      Enter Russia as Kaliningrad and live. Then there is no need to call yourself Armenia. Why do you need NATO? Isn't that a knife in the back?
  36. 0
    19 September 2023 18: 04
    Quote: Garegin
    1. Let's start with old times. Historians agree that from 150 to 000 Russians were sold into slavery by the Turks in the first half of the 200th century alone. Documentary sources from that period reveal how the Turks, during raids in southern Russia, ravaged entire villages, killing or selling most of the population.

    Well, historians can agree on anything. There are no documentary sources with statistics.
    But there are documentary and narrative historical sources indicating that Armenians played an important role in this unseemly matter.
    We read "A.A. Novoselsky. The struggle of the Moscow state with the Tatars in the first half of the 1948th century. M.-L., 208. P. XNUMX.
    "On July 10 [1631], the Moscow envoys in Crimea Voeikov and Zverev learned that a Russian full had been brought to Bakhchisarai for sale overseas. The interpreter and clerk brought Andrei Lazarev, a village Cossack from Ryazhsk, to the camp, who said that he was was taken full by the Tatars (there were 500 Nogais and 80 Crimeans) in Petrovskaya Sloboda; the whole number was 75 people; of this number, the Crimeans got 25 people. The Tsar (the Tsar in this case is the Crimean Khan - my footnote) chose “head duties” 5 people: a boyar's son, two stanitsa Cossacks and two wives. They were brought to Bakhchisarai and placed before the king; the king questioned them and chose the Ryashenka wife Lyubavka for his yard, and gave the rest to the Armenians for sale overseas. Envoys immediately sent to talk to the king about this and demanded the return of the full amount; a neighbor refused to them: “This never happened before, that you should give the full amount for free.” However, the envoys defended A. Lazarev, despite the demand of the Armenians, and took him with them to Russia."

    The envoys defended the village Cossack from Ryazhsk. But the rest is full, the Armenians took it to sell overseas.
    Here is another, no longer documentary, but narrative source.
    From the notes of the prefect of Caffa, Dominican Emiddio Dotelli D'Ascoli: “Description of the Black Sea and Tataria”, 1634.
    However, traveling to Tanu is very difficult due to the numerous shallows there, which do not allow large vessels, let alone galleys; besides, the sea is very narrow, and with every small storm even, ships are thrown ashore or aground. In addition, Moscow Cossacks watch the ships, guard the aisles, and although the owners carefully find out when the Cossacks sailed to the Black Sea, it nevertheless very often happens that the ships involuntarily fall into their hands, being plundered and enslaved; Turks (Tourchi) are killed, Christians are granted redemption, unless they themselves bought slaves; in this case they are killed mercilessly, as was the case last year with many Armenians. There is no doubt that Tana would have won endlessly if a depression had been dug from there for the passage to the Volga; in this case, a lot of money could be rescued.


    From here it becomes clear for what purpose the Crimean Armenians became mercenaries to Khan Mamai. Obviously not for a rather small mercenary pay. We look at the IV Novgorod Chronicle. PSRL. T. 4, part 1. P. 311
    On the same autumn, when the Horde prince came, Prince Mamai ate his unanimous souls, and with all the other princes of the Horde, and with all the power of Totarskaya and Polovetskaya, and also ratified Bessermen, and Armenians, and Fryazy, Cherkasy, and Yasa, and Bourta.

    Let's go for the heads of our ancestors in the hope of Mamai's victory. But no luck. Judging by the fact that ours did not take prisoners, all the Armenians were massacred by our ancestors on the Kulikovo field or while chasing those escaping.
  37. -1
    19 September 2023 18: 15
    Quote: Garegin
    3. On January 9, 1918, near the village of Shamkhor (30 kilometers from present-day Ganja), the Tatars (Azerbaijanis) captured and slaughtered more than 4 Russian soldiers and officers returning home from the Caucasian Front.
    Yes, God bless you, already 4000!!!! Just five years ago, Armenians were talking about 2!!!!!
    From Wikopedia.
    The Shamkhor massacre was an attack in January 1918 near the city of Shamkir (Shamkhor) by Azerbaijani armed groups on Russian soldiers returning home from the Caucasus Front in order to seize their weapons. As a result of the attack, according to various sources, over 2000 Russian soldiers died.

    They write everywhere on Wikopedia (we won’t point the finger at anyone, but......it’s already clear) that during the Shamkhor massacre over 2 thousand Russian soldiers were killed, the Azerbaijanis received over 15 thousand rifles, 70 machine guns, 20 cannons and ammunition.
    First, let's try to find primary sources of information.
    The main source is an essay by a certain Stanislav Yedievsky “The Shamkhor Tragedy”, which was published in the daily newspaper “Baku” on January 31, 1918:
    “In my story I want to present bare facts, the whole truth, which, perhaps, will seem like fantasy to many - the whole truth of the tragedy I experienced. People jumped through the windows of the carriages, from the steps onto the embankment, pushing: whoever was stronger walked over weak women and children. Many left their belongings in the carriages. Many Tatars robbed them there near the train. They stripped me to the skin, took off my boots, my outer dress, not to mention my carry-on luggage and money. The soldiers were mercilessly robbed. Even the dead and wounded were stripped of everything down to their shirts.
    There were about three miles left to the Shamkhor station, and we flocked there in a crowd, like a herd. And along the way, the Tatars robbed everyone who had anything left. And behind there was a fire, the corpses of the dead were lying, the wounded were groaning... Many walked ahead in their shirts, hungry, robbed, beaten... The wealthy became beggars, the healthy lost their health, and became crippled. On the part of the soldiers alone, there were 600 killed and wounded... At the very moment the train was leaving, a stray bullet killed outright two soldiers who had climbed onto the roof of the carriage, and who fell from the carriage at my feet. I will never forget this night."
    But let's look at the full text of Stanislav Edievsky (hereinafter - S.E. and “witness”)
    Stanislav Edievsky SHAMKHORA TRAGEDY (EYEWITNESS STORY)
    (find it yourself, it’s on the Internet, I’ll only give excerpts).
    In my story I want to present bare facts, the whole truth, which, perhaps, will seem like fantasy to many - the whole truth of the tragedy I experienced.
    On January 8, at 12 noon, mail train No. 4, crowded with passengers, left Tiflis for Baku. We drove safely to the station. Dollar And only here we learned the truth. It was not the damage to the route that caused the trains to stop, but the one standing in front armored train, demanding the disarmament of the trains.
    We took train No. 4 to the very tail of the last train, three miles before the station. Shamkhor.
    I don’t know how many echelons there were, but I saw that their trains stretched several miles ahead.
    Still at the station. Dollar, there were attempts on the part of the Tatars to demand that the soldiers traveling with us on the passenger train hand over their weapons, and the Tatars warned that, one way or another, they would get the weapons.
    It was 3-4 hours after lunch. We were standing in an open field. After some time, the first single shots were heard, followed by dense machine-gun fire, again shots in volleys, the crackling of machine guns, etc. And then, as if in conclusion, Several gun shots rang out.
    None of the passengers, however, knew what was happening. At first we thought that the echelons were repelling the Tatar offensive. It wasn't like that. There was a battle with an armored train, and as a result the armored car was destroyed, its commander was killed, and the servants were killed.
    This was the beginning of the tragedy experienced. Night has come. And at this time something happened that no one expected. Our echelons surrendered... after smashing the armored car to gangs of robbers...
    Until the last moment we did not know that the front echelons were surrendering. We all believed that “our people” would protect us. And when part of the gang of robbers approached our train with a demand to give up their weapons, the soldiers of our train refused to obey.
    The shooting started. Those who had weapons got out of the cars onto the embankment and began to shoot back.
    But what was it like for those passengers who remained in the carriages, women and children? Who can imagine their confusion and horror?.. It was a terrible, terrible night.
    When the defenders of our train, a group of selfless soldiers, were forced to give up their weapons, we lost hope of salvation. We found ourselves in the very camp of robbers.
  38. 0
    19 September 2023 18: 23
    National states in the 21st century no longer determine geopolitics.

    There is a NETWORK war of globalists against national states. Instead of “USA and England” we must understand: GLOBALISTS. There are no fewer of them in Moscow and Beijing than in Washington and Brussels.

    The Russian Federation, as a country with the largest territory, is one of the main targets for destruction along with the USA and Great Britain - the basis of the modern world order; and China and India - the states with the largest population.

    The activities of pro-globalist authorities and governments of many countries have long been directed against their own peoples and national interests.

    Russia, Azerbaijan and some other countries were lucky in that the pro-national forces in power turned out to be stronger than the globalist fosterlings and traitors. Ukraine, Armenia and many similar countries that are proving grounds for all sorts of mischief are “out of luck.”
  39. +1
    19 September 2023 21: 19
    Our peacekeepers must be withdrawn from Karabakh. From the very beginning, the purpose of their presence was unclear. And yes. There is no point in our guys dying for Armenian interests...
  40. 0
    19 September 2023 21: 39
    Nothing new. This scenario was described back in 2014 and published on VO. And I’m sure the Russian Federation has every opportunity (if there is a desire) to resolve this conflict in the direction we need. So we calmly watch the development of the situation.
  41. +1
    20 September 2023 03: 21
    The article is smart and correct in many ways! We need to tell people how the process went. But the whole question is that all the details will not be there anyway - this is precisely the work of the special services.
  42. +1
    20 September 2023 11: 55
    On the territory of Armenia... missile defense surveillance and tracking systems...
    - don't worry, author. https://topwar.ru/114971-rossiya-polnostyu-zakryta-radiolokacionnym-polem-dlya-zaschity-ot-raketnogo-napadeniya.html
  43. 0
    21 September 2023 00: 10
    By the way, it is noteworthy that official representatives of the Russian Foreign Ministry, commenting on the ongoing operation of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces in Karabakh, call it (like official Azerbaijan) counter-terrorism.

    That is, everything was clearly agreed upon with Moscow, and the slap in the face that official Baku gave Pashinyan today is a slap in the face for Washington, which, by the way, is not yet in a hurry to help its new vassal.
  44. 0
    21 September 2023 10: 54
    That's why no one wants to tell the truth? Was it not foolish that Stalin had to balance the centuries-old differences between these peoples by creating mutual enclaves of Azerbaijani Nakhichevan in Armenia and Armenian Karabakh in Azerbaijan? And isn’t it an open secret that it’s always quiet in Nakhichevan, because the Armenians don’t go there, and there’s a war in Karabakh precisely and only because the Azerbaijanis are constantly creating a creeping occupation there, constantly infiltrating by hook or by crook and settling there in the same way as Albanians in Kosovo? And has any of the Azerbaijani leaders ever realized that Azerbaijan owes its very existence precisely and only to Russia, and therefore must coordinate all its interstate movements only with it, and not with Turkey? Here, learn, ungrateful Turkomans: “The Russian people - a martyr and a righteous man - spoiled us all, riding us on their necks, and we decided - some of the Armenians, some of the Turks, some of the Slavs - that other great nations could ride us on their necks . Nonsense! The Russian people are a world-historical exception in the family of great imperial nations. Any other empire will not pamper you, but will beat you with a stick, sending you to the most menial and dirty work... The law of world trade is this: only those who can trade profitably can who relies on strength. And only the empire has strength. If you don’t have imperial power, Mr. Ukrainian, Mr. Tajik, no one will trade with you. They will simply take away from you by force what they need. And where will you, Russophobe, go to complain "To the Hague Tribunal, which strangles Serbs in their cells at night? Or to the global laughing stock of the UN?" (V. Avagyan: http://antiloh.info/politisa/russkij-narod-muchenik.html).
    And the Armenians are not going to Nakhichevan,
    Where there are almost no Armenians at all,
    But Azerbaijanis are crawling to Karabakh
    Just like the Albanians in Kosovo,
    It would be wise to exchange it sensibly
    Paths to every enclave
    Since Armenia is two and a half thousand years old,
    Azerbaijan is not even a hundred,
    And according to the Caucasian covenant the best
    The younger one should listen to the older one, alaverdi?
  45. 0
    22 September 2023 22: 02
    Quote: ivan2022
    Was Armenia created by Russia?
    The author needs to take into account..... laughing And in general to everyone who thought that the Armenians created the state BC....
    And the fact that Armenia interferes is understandable... For some dancers, everything interferes.


    Decree of the Senate of Tsarist Russia of March 21, 1928. It says: “By virtue of the treaty with Persia concluded on February 10, 1828, we command that the Khanate of Nakhichevan join Russia in all matters from now on to be called the Armenian region.”

    Central State Historical Archive of the Russian Federation, fund 880, inventory 5, file 389, sheet 18.
  46. 0
    22 September 2023 22: 35
    Quote: Garegin
    Let's just compare the striking force of the two nations' knives in the back of Russia and its (Russia's, respectively) reaction to this. After all, according to Newton's third law, the action force must be equal to the reaction force. But apparently the laws of physics don’t work here.
    Just the facts.
    Actions on the part of Turkey and Azerbaijan (we will not separate one people - two states):
    1. Let's start with old times. Historians agree that from 150 to 000 Russians were sold into slavery by the Turks in the first half of the 200th century alone. Documentary sources from that period reveal how the Turks, during raids in southern Russia, ravaged entire villages, killing or selling most of the population.
    2. In general, the Russian-Turkish wars cover a period of 351 years (1568-1918). During this period, Russia and Turkey were at war for 69 years and fought more than 12 times.
    3. On January 9, 1918, near the village of Shamkhor (30 kilometers from present-day Ganja), the Tatars (Azerbaijanis) captured and slaughtered more than 4 Russian soldiers and officers returning home from the Caucasian Front.
    4. 1973 - Azerbaijani Chingis Yunus-ogly Rzayev commits the largest terrorist act in the history of the USSR (airplane explosion, 80 dead).
    5. 1990 - expulsion of more than 100 Russians from Baku. (the documentary “You Can’t Live Like This,” directed by Stanislav Govorukhin, confirms the expulsion of Russians from Baku).
    6. 2012 – expulsion of the Russian military base (radar) from Azerbaijan (Gabala)
    7. 2015 - destruction of the Russian Su-24 by the Turks in Syria (crew commander Oleg Peshkov). While evacuating the bodies, the Turks shot down a Russian Mi-8 helicopter.
    8. 2016 – Russian Ambassador to Turkey Karlov was killed by the Turks.
    9. 2020 – Azerbaijan shoots down a Russian Mi-24 helicopter. Death of the entire crew.
    10. 2023 – Türkiye, despite the agreements, releases the Azov commanders. In addition, both Turks and Azerbaijanis supply weapons and fuels and lubricants to the combat zone.
    11. The actual establishment of several military bases on the territory of Azerbaijan and the absorption of the Azerbaijani army by the armed forces of Turkey - now NATO is not far from Derbent.
    12. The Turkish-Azerbaijani tandem in all international organizations (UN, European Parliament, etc.) has always voted against Russia.
    13. Direct clashes between Turkish forces and Russian forces in Syria.
    Peskov’s reaction (collective image) - “We understand the position of our Turkish colleagues”
    Actions on the part of Armenia.
    1. The Armenian people clearly took the Russian side in all wars between Russia and the Ottoman Empire, for which they were accused by the Ottoman government of committing the Genocide.
    2. Every third Armenian man living on the territory of the USSR died in the Great Patriotic War (1941-45).
    3. Since 1995, one of the largest Russian military bases has been located on the territory of Armenia (by the way, this is the first military base created outside of Russia after the collapse of the USSR).
    4. Since 2015, Armenia has been a member of the EAEU (economic union with Russia).
    5. Since 2003, Armenia has been a member of the CSTO (military alliance with Russia).
    6. Armenia has never voted against Russia in all international organizations (UN, European Parliament, etc.).
    7. In the 90s, Armenia transferred almost all energy (including a nuclear power plant), gas transportation system, and railway to management.
    8. Armenia does not call Russians who arrived in the country occupiers and shows the hospitality and sincerity characteristic of our people.
    Peskov’s reaction (collective image) - “We do not agree with the position of the Armenian leadership and would like to remind you that there are more Armenians living in Russia than in Armenia.”
    Conclusion. Idealists are betrayed. Pragmatists are inevitably respected. Let's learn this lesson - there is hope for a brighter future.

    Every Armenian comment is a pile of fantastic lies. Just 2-3 examples (I don’t want to waste time on you)...
    1. You say every third person died in Armenia, the population in Armenia was 250 thousand people?))
    Filimoshin M.V. Human losses of the armed forces of the USSR. - 4. - World of Russia, 1999. - S. 92-101.
    The national composition of the dead military personnel of the Soviet armed forces according to M. V. Filimoshin:
    Armenians: 83 dead.
    2. You say the Armenians don’t call them an occupier?) Just as soon as the Armenians don’t call Russia)
    All this demonic behavior and bacchanalia began long before the arrival of N. Pashinyan:

    2023. "Russia - get out of Armenia!" "Russia is the enemy!" Anti-Russian rally in the center of Yerevan
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn-btcG0_0

    2023. Armenian nationalists held a rally against Putin. RusNews Public Media.
    Feb 25, 2023 #special operation #Yerevan #rally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6maNcrFk8I

    Jan 8, 2023 #Shusha #news #Azerbaijan
    Armenian Radicals Organized an Anti-Russian Rally at the Russian Military Base in Gyumri
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTUW9ae51PY

    2022 As Armenian blogger Mika Badalyan reports in his telegram channel, the Yerevan mayor’s office agreed on holding a rally on August 24 that is openly anti-Russian in nature.
    2022 An anti-Russian rally in Yerevan last week was suppressed to avoid a conflict situation. Read more: https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2022/09/01/policiya-armenii-poyasnila-razgon-antirossiyskogo-mitinga-v-erevane
    November 17, 2021. An anti-Russian protest took place in Yerevan at night: https://vk.com/istoria_kavkaza?z=video-144451860_4562..
    Oct 16 2021 "In Yerevan, a crowd dirtyly insults the leadership of the Russian Federation!" "Putin....lo!" https://twitter.com/alexxbezz/status/1449124474415165..

    Oct 16 2021. A rally in Yerevan with insults to the Russian leadership - right now: https://twitter.com/alexxbezz/status/1449124474415165..

    2020 Armenians burn Russian flags. "Brotherly people" (Karabakh 2020)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2YEbaxOydg
    2018 Armenians burned the Russian flag in Yerevan
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zt7EI46vSk
    2017, the Armenians trampled and burned the Russian flag of the Russian Federation in Yerevan. Russia out of Armenia ...
    1,190 views • Jan 14, 2017
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-P4PXb-rL0
    2016. Armenians burn the Russian flag and commentary by Zhirinovsky
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07NhYGP37-w
    2015, Armenians attacked the Russian Embassy. The flag of Russia and Putin was insulted in Armenia! - F. A .D.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkKcn4yHh_Y
  47. 0
    22 September 2023 22: 43
    Quote: Igor Semirechensky
    That's why no one wants to tell the truth? Was it not foolish that Stalin had to balance the centuries-old differences between these peoples by creating mutual enclaves of Azerbaijani Nakhichevan in Armenia and Armenian Karabakh in Azerbaijan? And isn’t it an open secret that it’s always quiet in Nakhichevan, because the Armenians don’t go there, and there’s a war in Karabakh precisely and only because the Azerbaijanis are constantly creating a creeping occupation there, constantly infiltrating by hook or by crook and settling there in the same way as Albanians in Kosovo? And has any of the Azerbaijani leaders ever realized that Azerbaijan owes its very existence precisely and only to Russia, and therefore must coordinate all its interstate movements only with it, and not with Turkey? Here, learn, ungrateful Turkomans: “The Russian people - a martyr and a righteous man - spoiled us all, riding us on their necks, and we decided - some of the Armenians, some of the Turks, some of the Slavs - that other great nations could ride us on their necks . Nonsense! The Russian people are a world-historical exception in the family of great imperial nations. Any other empire will not pamper you, but will beat you with a stick, sending you to the most menial and dirty work... The law of world trade is this: only those who can trade profitably can who relies on strength. And only the empire has strength. If you don’t have imperial power, Mr. Ukrainian, Mr. Tajik, no one will trade with you. They will simply take away from you by force what they need. And where will you, Russophobe, go to complain "To the Hague Tribunal, which strangles Serbs in their cells at night? Or to the global laughing stock of the UN?" (V. Avagyan: http://antiloh.info/politisa/russkij-narod-muchenik.html).
    And the Armenians are not going to Nakhichevan,
    Where there are almost no Armenians at all,
    But Azerbaijanis are crawling to Karabakh
    Just like the Albanians in Kosovo,
    It would be wise to exchange it sensibly
    Paths to every enclave
    Since Armenia is two and a half thousand years old,
    Azerbaijan is not even a hundred,
    And according to the Caucasian covenant the best
    The younger one should listen to the older one, alaverdi?

    Are you sure you are talking about Azerbaijanis? Did the Azerbaijanis go to Karabakh? Are you hooked on Armenian TG channels?)
    1. Publication of the Russian collection. Shavrov N.N. "A new threat to the Russian cause in Transcaucasia." St. Petersburg, 1911, p. 59
    SHAVROV N.I. - A NEW THREAT TO THE RUSSIAN CASE IN THE TRANSCAUCASUS: THE UPCOMING SALE OF MUGAN TO FOREIGNERS
    An excerpt from a book by Russian researcher Shavrov about the fallacy of Russian resettlement policy in the Caucasus in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
    “Of the 1 million 300 thousand souls of Armenians currently living in Transcaucasia, more than 1 million are not among the indigenous inhabitants of the region and were settled by us. In numbers, the resettlement (unauthorized) and settlement of foreigners in Transcaucasia is expressed as follows:
    Armenians number about 1 souls of both sexes; Poles - about 000 souls of both sexes; Chekhov etc. 000; Latvians 17; Moldovans 264; Greeks 20041; Jews 5; Estonians 561; Isor 2. Total – 724.
    Making extensive use of perjury, the Armenians, who were landless aliens, seized vast expanses of state-owned lands.”
    Source: Publication of the Russian collection. Shavrov N.N. "A new threat to the Russian cause in Transcaucasia." St. Petersburg, 1911, p. 59

    https://www.allgeo.org/index.php/ru/772-shavrov-n-i-novaya-ugroza-russkomu-delu-v-zakavkaze-predstoyashchaya-rasprodazha-mugani-inorodtsam
    mi Armenian deserters who fled to the Russian Federation?)
  48. 0
    22 September 2023 22: 47
    Quote: Igor Semirechensky
    That's why no one wants to tell the truth? Was it not foolish that Stalin had to balance the centuries-old differences between these peoples by creating mutual enclaves of Azerbaijani Nakhichevan in Armenia and Armenian Karabakh in Azerbaijan? And isn’t it an open secret that it’s always quiet in Nakhichevan, because the Armenians don’t go there, and there’s a war in Karabakh precisely and only because the Azerbaijanis are constantly creating a creeping occupation there, constantly infiltrating by hook or by crook and settling there in the same way as Albanians in Kosovo? And has any of the Azerbaijani leaders ever realized that Azerbaijan owes its very existence precisely and only to Russia, and therefore must coordinate all its interstate movements only with it, and not with Turkey? Here, learn, ungrateful Turkomans: “The Russian people - a martyr and a righteous man - spoiled us all, riding us on their necks, and we decided - some of the Armenians, some of the Turks, some of the Slavs - that other great nations could ride us on their necks . Nonsense! The Russian people are a world-historical exception in the family of great imperial nations. Any other empire will not pamper you, but will beat you with a stick, sending you to the most menial and dirty work... The law of world trade is this: only those who can trade profitably can who relies on strength. And only the empire has strength. If you don’t have imperial power, Mr. Ukrainian, Mr. Tajik, no one will trade with you. They will simply take away from you by force what they need. And where will you, Russophobe, go to complain "To the Hague Tribunal, which strangles Serbs in their cells at night? Or to the global laughing stock of the UN?" (V. Avagyan: http://antiloh.info/politisa/russkij-narod-muchenik.html).
    And the Armenians are not going to Nakhichevan,
    Where there are almost no Armenians at all,
    But Azerbaijanis are crawling to Karabakh
    Just like the Albanians in Kosovo,
    It would be wise to exchange it sensibly
    Paths to every enclave
    Since Armenia is two and a half thousand years old,
    Azerbaijan is not even a hundred,
    And according to the Caucasian covenant the best
    The younger one should listen to the older one, alaverdi?

    No, are you sure you wrote about Azerbaijanis?)

    2. “It can be said without exaggeration that all the bloody wars of Russia in the Asian theater of war were ultimately fought in favor of the Armenian population of Persia and Turkey, which moved to us after each war and by our authorities, and without permission, in huge numbers and after that captured into its energetic and dexterous hands the entire economic life of the Transcaucasian regions where it penetrated. Now, one might say, the Georgians, the recent masters of the Armenians, have become their obedient, albeit unwitting, tributaries. Armenian capital, Armenian trade and industry now reign supreme over Georgia.”
    Source: Evgeniy Markov, Russia in Central Asia. Sketches of a trip to Transcaucasia, Turkmenistan, Bukhara, Samarkand, Tashkent and Fergana regions, the Caspian Sea and the Volga. In 2 volumes and 6 parts. Volume I. Part I. Coasts of the Caucasus. Part II. In Turkmenistan. Part III. On Oxus and Jaxartes. - SPb.: Type. MM. Stasyulevich, 1901, pp. 109–112.

    3. In the 1828 memo of the Ambassador of the Russian Empire to Persia, Alexander Griboyedov, “on the resettlement of Armenians from Persia to our regions,” the document notes: “Armenians are mostly settled on the lands of Muslim landowners... The settlers are themselves in crowded conditions and are crowding out Muslims, who are all grumbling and thoroughly"
    Source: Griboyedov A. S. Works in two volumes. Moscow: Pravda Publishing House, 1971. T. II – pp. 339-340.

    According to the Cyclopedia (Ethnic composition of Karabakh) changes in the ethnic composition of Karabakh.
    1811 1823 1830 1889
    Armenians 20,8% Armenians 21,7% Armenians 33% Armenians 45,5%
    Muslims 79% Muslims 78% Muslims 66,6% Muslims 54%
    Total 12.000 families Total 20.095 families Total 21.000 families Total 368.110 people
    Further, there is an increasing increase in the number of Armenians.

    https://cyclowiki.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B2_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0#cite_note-3