Vietnam: the defeat of the United States, which became the prologue to its victory in the Cold War

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Vietnam: the defeat of the United States, which became the prologue to its victory in the Cold War
In the foreground are the creators of future US geopolitical victories who survived the defeat in Vietnam. In particular, the current hero of the day, who has established relations between the United States and Maoist China

About the dramatic fall of Saigon in 1975, and with it the transformation into history American project called "Republic of Vietnam", a lot has been written. But no less interesting are two global aspects, in terms of their consequences, connected with this event and having a significant impact, including today.

First: the transformation of American society in terms of its mental attitudes; the result of which was a change in the White House strategy for the implementation of expansionist ambitions.



And as a result: the defeat in Indochina turned out to be a geopolitical success for the United States in general in the vastness of Asia, the Middle East, the Balkans and the Maghreb, and even for some time (in relation to Yeltsin's Russia, Shushkevich's Belarus, Ukraine and, albeit with reservations, Nazarbayev's Kazakhstan) - post-Soviet space.

The second aspect is also of far from academic interest. We are talking about events that took place half a century ago around South Vietnam, but less known. Which is unfair. For those distant years became the geopolitical maximum of the Soviet Union in the international arena, including in Asia. But more on that in the next post.

Two Americas


So let's take a look at the first aspect.

The early XNUMXs can be called the era of the great, driven by superpower military parity, balance, and the starting point of US victory in the Cold War.

The fact is that the fall of Saigon in 1975 was not only a geopolitical defeat for the United States and a shock to the political establishment and society - hence the terms that after the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan came into our everyday life: "post-traumatic syndrome" and "lost generation".

At first glance, an overseas expedition, insignificant for a superpower, which does not affect the territory of the mother country, in the age of television and live reporting from the scene, for the internal foundations of America was a shock that forced the Nixon administration, and then Ford, to think within the framework of the paradigm later formulated by Andropov: “We do not know the country , in which we live." We are talking about the anti-war movement and the differentiation of society on the principle of attitude towards Vietnam veterans.

The first "Rambo" is about this. The film shows the rejection by society in the person of the sheriff (by the way, a veteran of the Korean War) - or at best his indifference - to the hero played by Stallone.

As an example of the differentiation of American society, I will cite another - perhaps the best on the topic of Vietnam - the film "Platoon", and as an antithesis to it: the famous Woodstock rock festival saturated with the ideas of pacifism in 1969, and also the scandalous film that stirred up the United States two years earlier the story of the deprivation of the champion title of Mohammed Ali, who refused to serve in the army. Ali justified his decision as follows:


Two Americas, two worlds not only incomprehensible but hostile to each other under one roof.

But at the same time, on Capitol Hill, both from the defeat and from the split in society, they drew the appropriate conclusions. And they didn’t just make the transition to a professional army (in general, the problems that the American Armed Forces faced in Indochina and partly covered in the fundamental work of Lieutenant General Davidson “The Vietnam War (1946-1975)” require a separate discussion - I think, relevant for us in the context of present events), which began in 1973.

In the United States, they began to apologia and glorify military service in the public mind. The result exceeded expectations. I remember once I heard from a friend who a few years ago witnessed the following scene: in the waiting room of one of the American airports, several military men suddenly appeared, and everyone in the room suddenly applauded them, and it’s not a fact that those guys were participants military operations.

Half a century ago, with regard to veterans who returned from Vietnam, and just military personnel, this was unimaginable.

Further, the United States in Vietnam used monstrous carpet bombing and was on the verge, according to Davidson, of launching a nuclear strike. But it is precisely after the failure of the aggression that the Pentagon either reduces the war exclusively to air and missile strikes, as was the case during the aggression against Yugoslavia, or, if a ground operation is indispensable (Iraq 2003), it tries to attract as many satellites as possible to it.

At the same time, a calculation is made on the inability of a weaker adversary to provide effective and, most importantly, long-term resistance (in the same 2003, a significant part of the Iraqi troops remained in their places of permanent deployment, not taking part in repelling American aggression); or the Pentagon chooses countries that don’t really have an army - Grenada in 1983, Panama in 1989: Operation Just Goats . Either the CIA is relying on destructive forces within the state - the DRA, Libya, Syria.

When something went wrong


And if something does not go according to a pre-planned scenario - the failed operation "Eagle Claw" in April 1980 to free the employees of the American embassy in Tehran taken hostage; the October 1993 battles of American special forces with Somali rebels in Mogadishu, reflected in the good film Black Hawk Down; finally, the offensive of the Taliban officially banned in Russia on the territory of Afghanistan in 2021 - then the White House simply turns off, in order to avoid serious losses, the military presence in the country or the region as a whole.

War in the post-heroic era


An interesting - and in the quote below one should see the reverse side of the mentioned apology for military service in the public mind - an explanation of one of the psychological reasons for this is given by the American military historian and military strategist Luttwak in his book “Strategy. The logic of war and peace":

“To lose several hundred soldiers in some insignificant business, to lose several thousand in a small war or an expeditionary campaign, used to be quite an ordinary thing for the great powers (for example, the war with the sepoys, which was difficult for the British colonialists in 1857-1859, did not shock British society - I. X.)".

At the end of the last century, things have changed:

“It is enough to recall,” writes Luttwak, “how the Americans immediately left Somalia after the loss of 18 soldiers in October 1993, to reveal the unreality of the concept of a great power today.
To their glory or to their shame, the Americans could draw any, even larger conclusions from this event, while retaining the right to special impressionability, which forces a complete change in their policy after the murder of 18 professional volunteer soldiers. We add that these were soldiers from the country where death from a gunshot weapons registered every 14 minutes. However, this is by no means an exclusively American dignity (or disaster - how to look).

Not without reason, after the overthrow of Saddam and the beginning of the guerrilla struggle in Iraq, the Americans drove satellites from almost all over the world into the country they had torn apart - almost fifty states, even Fiji was not forgotten. If only other people died - Bulgarians, there, Georgians, Romanians or Mongols, but if only their own - to a minimum. If only the shadow of a "second Vietnam" would not fall on America.

And I believe that if Saigon had not fallen in 1975, the expansion of the United States would have been less international in nature and would have relied less on the efforts of diplomacy, putting together all sorts of "Iraqi freedoms", etc.

But Gorbachev planted a kind of pig in the White House, annihilating a superpower with a far from exhausted potential without pressure from outside. We will talk about this in more detail in the article that analyzes the second aspect.

The sudden self-liquidation of the Internal Affairs Directorate and the USSR weakened the United States too much and literally leveled their interest in Sovietology, which had a negative impact on research important for formulating the basic principles of the White House's foreign policy strategy in relation to the post-Soviet space and the countries of the former socialist camp.

USA on the way to a new Saigon


The mastodons of the political establishment that took shape during the Cold War warned about the dangerous consequences of ill-conceived US moves in Eastern Europe.

For example, the famous author of the "Long Telegram" Kennan was an opponent of NATO expansion to the East. They didn't listen. In a word, American diplomacy failed and overlooked the transformation of the Kremlin's foreign policy strategy from the shameful Kozyrevism (at that time, however, there was no strategy at all) to Primakov and further to Lavrov.
And the year 2014 became a bucket of cold water for the White House, when the generally successful expansionist policy for it was interrupted by the return of Crimea to Russia, the formation of Novorossia, oriented towards Russia and not subject to the puppet Kiev regime.

The actions of our Aerospace Forces in Syria also slowed down the confident pace of American imperialism. Both became a kind of second Saigon for the gentlemen from Capitol Hill. Not as brutal as in 1975, but still a serious geopolitical defeat.
The headache for the United States was added by China, which has squeezed into the category of superpowers and challenged yesterday's hegemon in the Asia-Pacific region. However, the scale of the challenge should not be exaggerated, because Beijing is more likely to engage in dialogue with Washington than confrontation with it.

The dominance of the United States in the Asia-Pacific region is also now being challenged by North Korea, forcing the South Koreans and the Japanese to jitter after each launch of a ballistic missile.

Unbroken by sanctions, Iran is stepping on the heels of American interests in the Middle East, claiming a sphere of influence in the Shiite part of Iraq, and also, relying on Hezbollah, in Syria and Lebanon.

All this once again testifies: the country that won the Cold War, but it should not rest on its laurels, like France, lulled by the Versailles Treaty of 1920, is an example of examples. It should be ready for new geopolitical challenges.
But sometimes it is the defeat that makes the state stronger. Actually, the failure in Vietnam, I repeat, was a good lesson for the White House, from which he drew the appropriate conclusions, eventually becoming the world hegemon.

And I think that overseas people are seriously analyzing the miscalculations in European politics in the second half of the nineties and the beginning of the 181049s, which resulted in the loss of Crimea as a promising naval base in Eastern Europe (see about this: https://topwar.ru/2021- nerealizovannye-plany-k-6-godu-ssha-sobiralis-prevratit-sevastopol-v-zonu-rotacionnogo-bazirovanija-korablej-7-go-flota.html?ysclid=llvs4ch795261010mzXNUMX), from a strategic point of view, incomparably more important than Camp Bondsteel on Serbian territory occupied by Washington-controlled Albanian gangs and Ramstein in Germany.

To oppose the United States to the global South, which does not exist in reality, is, I think, reckless, which I писалrecently.

Our conditional Mukden as a step towards a future victory


As for Russia, our March 2014 triumph was followed by the September and November conditional Mukden 2022, from which, I am sure, the right conclusions were also drawn, which will serve as a guarantee of future victories.

To be continued ...
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  1. +15
    2 September 2023 04: 58
    The United States won the Cold War because the USSR definitely did not intend to win it. Always catching up, blaming everything on the Americans, relaxing on the hunt and watching Hollywood films - this is what the Soviet leadership liked. The Americans had their oil cut off in 1973, Vietnam undermined their authority, the people were rebelling, it would seem - rush the whole world at the enemy in a moment of weakness, strain your strength, cut off the oxygen to the maximum, let the leftist terrorists create hell for the capitalists from within! No, it’s better to detente, the Apollo union, here’s oil and gas from the USSR, sell the technology. But excuse me, if you won the war, you would get all this for free! But did the Soviet leadership have any understanding of what to do with the victory? Who will live on the planet, what will they do, where will they strive? Was the Soviet leadership ready to answer to the whole world for possible mistakes? The Americans had such plans, now most of the world quietly and not very much hate them, but the Americans don’t care, they have turned everything on themselves, gathered the chosen people and do whatever they want, they have plans for everyone, unfortunately for everyone. And how to defeat such people when you don’t know what to do with the victory?
    1. +12
      2 September 2023 06: 40
      Quote from alexoff
      The US won the Cold War because the USSR was definitely not going to win it.

      It reminded me of the victory of EBN in 1996, when GAZ simply gave him the victory ...
      * * *
      It makes no sense to talk about what the USSR, which took over the economy of half the world's developing countries, was going to or was not going to do.
      The absence of group A goods in the country drew its own prospects, which were not spoken loudly, but they always wondered why the victorious country lives in wooden barracks, takes water from pumps (wells) and goes to the toilet on the street ... And this surprise was mixed with anecdotes about “bast shoes by Brezhnev and Kosygin” interspersed with stories “about Petka and Vasily Ivanovich” ...
      But this eternal flirting with the capitalists, the desire to put a golden toilet in your own palace led to the collapse of the USSR - there was no one to protect.
      1. +2
        2 September 2023 20: 06
        It makes no sense to talk about what the USSR, which took over the economy of half the world's developing countries, was going to or was not going to do.
        The absence of Group A goods in the country created its own prospects, which were not discussed loudly, but people were always surprised why the winning country lived in wooden barracks, got water from pumps (wells) and went to the toilet on the street...

        Yes, that's the main thing. Stupidly torn. They turned the whole country into a military-industrial complex.

        But the Americans had Eisenhower, who warned that this should not be done. By the way, he coined the term military-industrial complex.

        Dwight's famous farewell speech.
        (For those who don’t know, for translation - settings (gear) - subtitles - translate - Russian).

    2. +5
      2 September 2023 07: 26
      Quote from alexoff
      But did the Soviet leadership have at least some understanding of what to do with the victory?

      They were even afraid to think about war / tension, and you were afraid of victory ... Therefore, they strove for detente.
      Quote from alexoff
      Was the Soviet leadership ready to answer to the whole world for possible jambs?

      They couldn't even in front of their people...
    3. +4
      2 September 2023 09: 51
      . followed by the September and November conditional Mukden 2022, from which, sure, the right conclusions were also made that will serve as the key to future victories.

      I'm not sure.
    4. +4
      2 September 2023 12: 28
      So the United States waged a cold war against the USSR, and the leadership of the USSR did not need any kind of war, in principle, or when, therefore, it is strange to be surprised that the United States did not want to fight. And this was the correct approach of the leadership of the USSR, because the communist ideology itself does not imply imperialist ambitions to take over the world, which you forget about.
    5. +1
      2 September 2023 18: 12
      "The United States won the Cold War because the USSR was definitely not going to win it." After Brezhnev's stroke - I think in 1974 - they weren't going to, yes.
      1. +3
        2 September 2023 23: 20
        And they weren’t going to do it before. It is enough to read the biography of the Minister of Internal Affairs of the USSR during the stagnant years.
      2. +3
        3 September 2023 10: 51
        After Brezhnev's stroke - I think in 1974 - they weren't going to, yes.
        I had a stroke in 1976.
  2. +8
    2 September 2023 05: 40
    With all due respect to the author, the conclusion and conclusions of the article resemble another "agitation".
    ps the key here should be that the United States has come up with effective ways, in addition to waging war on its own (in other words, it’s easier to “bribe” the actors and make money selling weapons than to get involved in it yourself) ... And it’s quite obvious from the development of the situation with the borderline that we have not only not learned something, but worse than that, they are acting according to a scenario written by overseas enemies!
    1. +1
      3 September 2023 19: 50
      “ps. The key here should be that the United States has come up with effective ways other than waging war on its own (in other words, it’s easier to “bribe” the actors and make money by selling weapons than to get involved in it yourself).” So I wrote about this using the example of Iraq.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. +7
    2 September 2023 06: 43
    The reason for the US victory in the Cold War was the betrayal of the top of the CPSU, headed by Gorbachev.
    1. +1
      2 September 2023 18: 14
      About this in the next article. There will be a link to my old material (this is old man's, and my article): https://nstarikov.ru/kak-ubivali-irak-124542?ysclid=lm25vwcq3r249587766
  5. +6
    2 September 2023 07: 00
    Plus the article and the topic in particular. The key feature of the West - the ability to change, to transform to suit new conditions - is an extremely necessary quality in the modern world. Vietnam pushed the entire West to wage a proxy, asymmetric war, a war of new technologies, new methods, a trade war.
    1. 0
      2 September 2023 18: 14
      Yes, they drew conclusions and already in 1972 Kissinger flew to China.
    2. 0
      8 September 2023 18: 12
      In the US, the whole society lives in competition, those who can solve problems get to the top! bully and here in the days of the USSR, and probably today too, OUR OWN people get to the top, this is a different culture of solving problems, an agreement is preferable to victory. Less effort.
  6. +9
    2 September 2023 07: 19
    Vietnam: the US defeat that became the prologue to their victory in the cold war
    The prologue was the policy of "national reconciliation" announced by Gorbachev. Until the announcement, the situation was not in favor of the United States. For example, in Latin America, a guerrilla movement unfolded against the ruling regimes. %, there was a consolidation of anti-American forces in other LA countries, and then bam and the second shift. "Guys, let's live together" and everything fell down, including the USSR.
    1. 0
      2 September 2023 18: 15
      Latin America is giving us a chance again: at least with the return of Ortega.
  7. +6
    2 September 2023 07: 28
    All this once again testifies: the country that won the Cold War, but it should not rest on its laurels, like France, lulled by the Versailles Treaty of 1920, is an example of examples. It should be ready for new geopolitical challenges.

    What a crazy perception of US policy after the collapse of the USSR. The United States was just very actively preparing for a new confrontation. Fools would have disbanded NATO as unnecessary, because there is no longer an enemy. And the wise men from the White House expanded NATO by devouring a huge number of countries. Because of what, now the front is not passing through Germany, but through the Donbass.

    The army was also actively preparing to maintain a huge army and the military-industrial complex when there were no super threats, but the army was constantly trained in local conflicts, and it also focused on the development of new technologies. Thanks to this, they can already deploy full-scale production of modern designs.

    Etc. Don't underestimate the USA
  8. +1
    2 September 2023 07: 34
    Brezhnev’s old-timers, after the defeat of the United States in Vietnam, with their grandfathers, with their characteristic insanity, began to prepare a victorious meeting in Helsinki, thinking that after America’s defeat in Vietnam, America would not care about the USSR and Europe, and therefore America could be stopped by signing documents on the inviolability of borders after WWII states in Europe and about preventing interference in Europe from the outside in the affairs of states within states. In a word, it was proposed from the USSR that if only there was no war with the United States, and what the USSR would have to pay for this, the Brezhnev old-timers did not even consider this. And the United States chose this type of war against the USSR in order to find traitors in the USSR, after which, in the near future, not only the borders of post-war Europe, but also the borders of the USSR will be redrawn at the request of America, and the USSR will disappear altogether, and America, victorious in Vietnam, will be treacherously abandoned , like Yugoslavia and the GDR, if you look at the Brezhnev "child" in the Helsinki Act.
    That's what it means if the vigilance of the state loses to the slogans "If only there was no war" and "Peace is peace." And the American only spat and laughed at this and chose a different method of war against the USSR. Through traitors within the USSR, and there is no need to spend a single American cartridge and destroy a single American soldier. Well, after the USSR was destroyed, then Yugoslavia and Iraq and Libya and Syria ... already here it’s possible and the American will be bombed enough. And no matter what the fate of Libya or Iraq befalls Vietnam, then after the fall of the USSR in the Cold War and the betrayal of friends and allies, Vietnam somehow had to bow its head to the United States.
    1. +7
      2 September 2023 10: 10
      So that there would be no traitors in the USSR, it was necessary to raise the availability of consumer goods, at least to the European level, in conjunction with the existing super-social network, and not to drive hundreds of thousands of armor. Since they refused to further export socialism by force, it is a senseless waste of funds. Apparently, the Kremlin elders did not understand that women need tights and men need jeans. Both need cars and the presence of a sausage factory in every region, because the raw materials are grazed right there. It’s not like the pins have grown together with the owls, even with the Tsrushnik on the Kremlin stool. The people would lay down their bones for such a country.
      Conclusion - a bias towards the military-industrial complex, without its use, unlike mattresses, destroyed the country.
      1. -1
        2 September 2023 13: 29
        Quote: Essex62
        So that there would be no traitors in the USSR, it was necessary to bring up, at least to the European level, the presence of consumer goods, in a pair of existing supersocial programs, and not to drive hundreds of thousands of armor.
        Hundreds of thousands of armor was the result of the fact that they could not create an assembly line for the production of aviation, but somehow it was necessary to fight in a nuclear war.
        Quote: Essex62
        . Apparently, the Kremlin elders did not understand that women needed tights, and men needed jeans.
        Their women and men had everything (from special distributors), they did not understand why the hell everyone still needed something. And so everything is fine.
        Quote: Essex62
        Conclusion - a bias towards the military-industrial complex, without its use, unlike mattresses, destroyed the country.
        In the 90s, the military-industrial complex was left without orders. Did it get better?
        1. +1
          3 September 2023 10: 10
          The armor was driven for a throw to the English Channel and the Portuguese beaches. Only this idea, with age, faded away among the members of the Politburo and they became peacekeepers. The aggressive West did not fail to take advantage of impotence. Lenya 60s and 70s are two big differences.
          In the 90s, a planned economy being destroyed
          grabbing, lay in ruins. First of all, they brought down the military-industrial complex, to please their masters. They woke up only 20 years later, when it dawned that our early ripening nouveaux riches were not recognized as equals, the descendants of pirates.
      2. +2
        2 September 2023 18: 17
        "So that the traitors in the USSR would not have to be brought up, at least to the European level, the presence of consumer goods, in a couple of existing supersocial programs, and not to drive hundreds of thousands of armor. Once they refused to further export socialism by force, a senseless expenditure of funds." Yes.
      3. 0
        2 September 2023 23: 26
        In the late USSR they did some nonsense in agriculture. All sorts of scientists, engineers, workers, students were sent to plow the fields or to their own dachas using 19th century technologies, so that they would become overworked and then perform their work duties worse. Instead of forcing the same scientist-engineers to invent tractors and pesticides, and force workers to manufacture them. As a result of the degenerative approach, the population, to put it mildly, became tired of such low-productive activities
  9. +1
    2 September 2023 08: 08
    There were no circumstances at all for the surrender of the USSR. High technologies were on the way in literally all spheres of the economy. Which, by the way, were appropriated by the USA and other countries after the collapse of the USSR. In the 80s, the financial system began to limp. A large amount of dirty money appeared on the outskirts of the RSFSR and inside. An ordinary monetary reform could have corrected this, but Pavlov made a partial reform, which no longer affected anything. Mass urbanization undermined the community of the people. But this is already the law of evolution. Our desire to become separate from all republics was expressed in the acceptance of the sovereignty of the RSFSR. This marked the beginning of the collapse of the USSR. Then there was a domino effect.
    1. +2
      2 September 2023 10: 18
      You are a comrade, the main factor is missing - a change in the social system. It’s just that the separation of the Russian people, the creation of their own state, was overdue, but it was impossible within the framework of socialism, because the system had bronzed. This contradiction was used by hucksters, under the guise of self-determination of the Russian people, they pushed through grabbing and the abolition of social justice.
    2. +1
      2 September 2023 18: 18
      "There were no circumstances at all for the surrender of the USSR. High technologies were on the way in literally all spheres of the economy. Which, by the way, after the collapse of the USSR, were appropriated by the United States and other countries" And here is nonsense with SDI. Although the scientists of the USSR - the same Raushenbakh - immediately realized that this was a bluff. But Gorbachev fell for it.
      1. 0
        4 September 2023 01: 25
        Gorbachev didn't go anywhere. He worked, pieces of silver and convictions, practical support of curators and under the guise of a simpleton-combine operator, Jesuit cunning and iron will. For several years, he shook up the entire leadership of critical ministries and departments, and most importantly created an information wave to discredit socialism, under the slogan "more socialism." In an incomprehensible way, the recruited agent ended up in the chair of the first man of the Empire. Although this may not be a coincidence. Lieberman vigorously pushed his candidacy to the Politburo. He could not know about his work for the Masons.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. Eug
    +6
    2 September 2023 08: 09
    Despite the formal defeat in Vietnam, the United States a year before had laid the foundation for victory in the Cold War - by decoupling the dollar from its gold content and, most importantly, by the fact that the whole world swallowed it. And what followed this decoupling - a seemingly “warming” of relations between the USSR and the USA - on the part of the mattresses was only a temporary retreat and accumulation of forces, which our “peacekeepers” took for a real “détente of international tension.” So “trusting partners” has a long tradition...
    1. +1
      2 September 2023 14: 26
      The USSR also tied the ruble to the dollar for some reason. In the United States, there was considerable inflation throughout the 70s, and the USSR stupidly dropped the international ruble after them. Oil was also transported to Europe through new oil pipelines.
    2. 0
      2 September 2023 18: 20
      Our peacekeepers, unlike scientists ("Buran", "Spiral", T-4 - "weaving"), were generally not up to par.
  12. +1
    2 September 2023 08: 53
    The article is reminiscent of perestroika times and the so-called. "glasnost" But the point is clear, defeat in Vietnam made America stronger. And it’s hard to disagree with this. But what is interesting, starting from this logic, will it not turn out that the side that formally won in the current Russian-Ukrainian conflict will remain the loser? And the loser, on the contrary, will remain a winner in the long run. Istria is full of such examples. It’s a paradoxical situation, but we need to think about it.
    1. 0
      2 September 2023 18: 21
      "Will it turn out that the party that formally won the current Russian-Ukrainian conflict will remain the loser?" Separate topic. A lot of incomprehensible.
      1. 0
        4 September 2023 01: 29
        In any GW, the winner is always the loser. Eliminate the consequences, on his own land, to him.
    2. -1
      21 October 2023 15: 09
      Quote: oleg Pesotsky
      The article is reminiscent of perestroika times and the so-called. "glasnost" But the point is clear, defeat in Vietnam made America stronger. And it’s hard to disagree with this. But what is interesting, starting from this logic, will it not turn out that the side that formally won in the current Russian-Ukrainian conflict will remain the loser? And the loser, on the contrary, will remain a winner in the long run. Istria is full of such examples. It’s a paradoxical situation, but we need to think about it.

      So it will be. What will Russia benefit from victory?
  13. +5
    2 September 2023 08: 57
    in the same 2003, a significant part of the Iraqi troops remained in places of permanent deployment, without taking part in repelling American aggression

    But would the Iraqis withdraw all their troops? What would be the point? They would gouge them with cassette Hymars and roll them out across the desert with aviation, which was done with those who came out against them request
    Somalia

    So the Americans entered there to prevent local gangs from stealing the UN humanitarian aid
    When they saw that the population, which the Yankees wanted to protect from production, had come out on the side of the gangs against the elite special forces, it was clear that the Americans had curtailed laughing
    Afghanistan

    Bush sent troops there to crush Iran from both sides - Afghanistan and Iraq. The Persians were saved by Obama, who left troops there just in case, and Trump didn’t want to look like a liberal compared to Barak Khuseinovich, but Biden was smart enough to get the guys out of this ass, because... There's no point in being there if you don't want to attack Iran.
    ---------
    The facts are interesting, the analytics - so on. The strength of the States in the economy and science, the army is an application for some political decisions. But, if the Yankees suddenly need to smash the army of almost any non-nuclear country, they will do the maximum in a month
    1. +1
      2 September 2023 18: 23
      "But would the Iraqis withdraw all the troops - what's the point? They would gouge them with cluster Haymars and roll them across the desert with aviation, which was done with those who went against them" They would gouge, But I knowingly cited Somalia 1993 as an example from Luttwak - The States were not ready for a long-term and not sluggish war.
      1. +1
        2 September 2023 21: 51
        Quote: Igor Khodakov
        The states were not ready for a long-term and low-intensity war.

        Due to the lack of a clear goal and benefit for oneself. In Afghanistan, however, they got into such shit
  14. +4
    2 September 2023 09: 15
    The fact that the United States can solve problems in the right direction has already been seen, but whether the Russian Federation can still be seen.
  15. +5
    2 September 2023 09: 47
    So far, no conclusions have been drawn from Mukden 2022. I remember hoping that after the West’s control over us weakened, something would change in the economy, new people would come, some bold decisions, laws, programs for the development of domestic production and entrepreneurship would be made that would help internal growth. But everything remains the same, except for some minor cosmetic changes. Those in office are the same ones who helped move billions of dollars abroad...
    1. +5
      2 September 2023 14: 36
      I thought that we would announce mobilization in the desired economy. Like - strong and strong? To Army. Programmer? Go to the drone factory, you will program them. Scientist? Go to the military institute to develop new armor. But how my former classmate, a candidate of sciences, who led the development of the creation of highly stable polymers for aviation, began to break into the house so that he would join the army on mobilization, so he immediately dumped over the hill, since he is not a fighter and an intellectual in the tenth generation at all , well, the result is that there is no bad soldier in the trenches, there is no good specialist at the institute either, his students scatter, and there are probably thousands of such stories.
      1. 0
        2 September 2023 18: 25
        "But how about my former classmate" Didn't his worldview develop in the nineties?
        1. 0
          2 September 2023 19: 30
          Quote: Igor Khodakov
          "But how about my former classmate" Didn't his worldview develop in the nineties?

          No, he was just studying history. The Patriotic War when you were attacked is one thing. And it’s another thing when you break into your neighbor’s house
          1. 0
            2 September 2023 23: 33
            And during the Patriotic War, did they break into the house of a neighbor, who also lived normally in the Reichskommisariat? What does history have to do with it? No one sent Korolev or Tupolev to the front after the surrender of Izyum
        2. 0
          2 September 2023 23: 31
          Well, since he was born in 1987, I don’t rule it out. But the fact is that such an oak approach without adjusting for reality does more harm - there are no more soldiers, there are fewer scientists. And by the way, no one sets large-scale tasks for scientists, everything is as before, as if nothing had happened.
  16. +5
    2 September 2023 10: 12
    It looks like an agitation.
    But at least the years are spoken.
    And one of the conclusions was that a large anti-war movement arose in the SA at that time.
    And a lot of the rest is similar to 2022-23. "Lunar landscapes" in the media, and endless talk by the authorities about the possibility of being the first to use nuclear weapons.
    1. 0
      2 September 2023 18: 26
      Believe me, I don't write propaganda. On the contrary, I tried to trace the transformation of American society after the split of the country.
  17. +3
    2 September 2023 11: 21
    The global strategy of the Anglo-Saxons is to suppress competition from strong countries or associations. There are enough examples, the USSR, Yugoslavia, Brexit (a slap in the face to the EU who tried to breathe on his own), and so on. Stubborn opposition to China over Taiwan.
    You can’t just throw them off so easily, they have been sucked into the modern world like a leech with a bazooka. But there is a right move - to form parallel associations and unions, without their participation in principle. Then the foundation of their dominance will be washed away and the situation will change. This is what needs to be done. SCO BRICS + EAEU, etc.
  18. +1
    2 September 2023 12: 31
    We keep calling it the Vietnam War, but the US has NEVER officially declared war on Vietnam. This is what I have read in in-depth history books about the Vietnam conflict. What is known is that the US was already present in Vietnam prior to 1965 with instructors, spies and special forces. But when they landed at Da Nang airport and then landed in Da Nang in March 1965, war was never declared, but rather a military operation. Then if someone has information different from mine, write your opinion.
    1. +1
      2 September 2023 18: 29
      Well, we didn't declare war on Afghanistan either. Davidson did a good job of showing how the United States was gradually drawn into the escalation of the conflict, trying to simply limit itself to the role of military advisers. Did not work out
    2. 0
      2 September 2023 19: 27
      Quote from: Semovente7534
      We keep calling it the Vietnam War, but the US has NEVER officially declared war on Vietnam. This is what I have read in in-depth history books about the Vietnam conflict. What is known is that the US was already present in Vietnam prior to 1965 with instructors, spies and special forces. But when they landed at Da Nang airport and then landed in Da Nang in March 1965, war was never declared, but rather a military operation. Then if someone has information different from mine, write your opinion.

      Excuse me, but did they declare war on Yugoslavia? Iraq, Libya, Panama, Grenada? And Russia, in my opinion, did not declare war on Georgia. But there is still a state of war with Japan. Although the USSR fought, which is no longer there.
      They are not declaring wars now.
      1. +1
        4 September 2023 01: 10
        There are no and never have been any agreements obliging to formally declare "war". Modern international law operates with the concept of "aggression", "military aggression" or "aggressive war". Signs of aggression are listed in the relevant convention and a special UN resolution, that is, they determine the fact of aggression not by name, but by actual actions. In international law (and in national law too, for example, the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, Article 353. "Planning, preparing, initiating or waging an aggressive war"), unleashing an aggressive war is a crime. That is, "war" is rather a neutral term denoting the nature of events. It can be aggressive - then it is interpreted as a crime, or it can be the realization of the right to self-defense in accordance with Article 51 of the UN Charter - then these are legal actions.
        But Japan is still at war.

        The state of war between the USSR and Japan ended in 1956.
        ...Article 1
        The state of war between the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and Japan ceases from the date of entry into force of this Declaration, and peace and good-neighborly friendly relations are restored between them ...
    3. 0
      2 September 2023 22: 43
      Quote from: Semovente7534
      But when they landed at Da Nang Airport and then landed in Da Nang in March 1965, war had not been declared.

      Japan attacked China, killed millions of Chinese, and committed the Nanuin Massacre with massacres and rape. But China officially entered the war only in 1941. Moreover, China first announced the entry into the war of both Nazi Germany and Italy, and only a day after that declared war on Japan. It's just that politics often makes it inconvenient to declare war after it has begun.
  19. +2
    2 September 2023 13: 31
    Here, after all, as, in my opinion: the Anglo-Saxons had, have, and apparently will have firm and non-changeable goals in politics. Hegemony, financial power over the world, cultural promotion of one's language, literature, music, culture, clothing and even everyday habits (tea at 17.00).
    In this paradigm, an elite has been grown, for more than 200 years, not loosely pluralistic (this is imposed on the Papuans), but quite cynical and disciplined, brought up in strict colleges with rods.
    And therefore, this elite succeeds sooner or later in achieving great goals. Yes, private failures are possible, and big ones too (of course, the Anglo-Saxons in a bad dream did not want such an increase in the power and authority of the Soviet Union, as in the post-war Stalin era, starting a second world war), but 30-40-50 years of work pass in the right direction - and here it is, a plate, with a blue border! Gorbachev is a village tongue-tied self-satisfied fool at the helm of a superpower with almost monarchical powers! He voluntarily squandered in favor of the Anglo-Saxons everything mined and conquered right after Ivan the Terrible!
    Do our elites have common common goals? Which? How long term? Do we have those to whom this word "elite" generally suits?
    Or do we have crowds of little Gorbachevs, whose ultimate dream is a golden toilet in their villa, even in Nice, even in the Stavropol Territory? Have you gone very far from a monkey, or even from a magpie, greedy for shiny things?
    1. +1
      2 September 2023 18: 31
      "Do our elites have common common goals?" Sensitive subject. The bet can only be on the formation of a new elite. Maybe technocrats.
      1. 0
        2 September 2023 23: 38
        Completely new elites appeared in the USSR. But their children have already become ordinary bigots and traitors. Here it’s more likely to create a neural network; it won’t betray you, it doesn’t need money.
    2. 0
      2 September 2023 22: 55
      Quote: faterdom
      Do our elite have common common goals? Which? How long-term?

      The Soviet elite at that time sought to keep the intelligentsia in a black body. However, the development of technological progress required sharing power and material wealth with her. Before the start of the SVO, the authorities relied on the development of sports, cinema, and entertainment. In the first week of the North Military District, it became clear that the favored creative intelligentsia openly declared itself an enemy of Putin, from Pugacheva to Isinbayeva.
    3. 0
      3 September 2023 19: 52
      “In this paradigm, an elite has been bred, for more than 200 years, not loosely pluralistic (this is being imposed on the Papuans), but quite cynical and disciplined, brought up in strict colleges with rods.” Johnson and Sunak are not like this) Although they probably were just screens like Biden.
  20. 0
    2 September 2023 14: 11
    hence the terms that, after the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan, came into our everyday life: “post-traumatic syndrome" and "lost generation».
    The author, you do not need to suck out different fables from your finger.
    This was not "in our everyday life" - the conscripts who returned from Afghanistan, for the most part, did not differ much in their mental state from the returned conscripts who served in the USSR.
    And for the first, a wide range of benefits was provided (which were quickly cut after the collapse of the USSR).
    And everyone who returned from Afghanistan (who aspired to this) quickly found themselves in life.
    The same is true for officers.
    I didn’t read further, it’s already clear that the author is a dreamer
    1. +1
      2 September 2023 18: 32
      Not all have been found. Far. I know, I assure you, not by hearsay.
      1. +1
        2 September 2023 21: 05
        Who sought to find his place in life, he found it.
        With the exception of perhaps the disabled, but that's another question.
        I knew many who had returned from across the river, they were all normal except for one, but that one had his own stupidity, innate.
        But then the time was different, the boys were more mentally strong, not like the current younger generation, the cat. take away the iPhone so in a day they will go crazy
        1. 0
          3 September 2023 15: 42
          [center][img]Who is fighting in Ukraine now? Lots of young guys. Here, for example, is the UAV operator who helped Alyosha. Order of Courage.
      2. 0
        2 September 2023 23: 36
        Yes, in the 90s, a bunch of men drank themselves to death without any regard for Afghanistan; on average, they settled better because they went into crime.
    2. 0
      3 September 2023 13: 55
      And everyone who returned from Afghanistan (who aspired to this) quickly found themselves in life.


      https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2691719
      After the war, according to the veterans' organization, at least 35% of its members were in dire need of psychological help, and up to 70% expressed their readiness to return to the hot spot at any time. As of November 1989, 372 former "Afghan" soldiers suffered from alcoholism and drug addiction to one degree or another. 3,7 thousand people at the end of 1989 were convicted of murder and robbery. In the early 1990s, organized criminal groups, consisting of veterans of Afghanistan, appeared in Yekaterinburg, St. Petersburg, Irkutsk, Krasnoyarsk and other cities.
  21. 0
    2 September 2023 14: 38
    Where did the US win the Cold War? If the corpse of an enemy floats past you, this does not mean that you defeated him. Maxim died - well, God bless him. The USSR defeated the mortal sin-GREED! Remember how Gorbachev's face twisted when he found out how much Artyom Tarasov earned? (Shown on TV). And at the very same "moth in his pocket, but a louse on a lasso"! So the nomenklatura elites began to figure out how to monetize their positions. Selling pies is not an option, so they pulled up the drunk and Chubais with the grandson of the hero of the civil war, Gaidar. And this had to turn to the Americans. To plunder such a country was entrusted to professionals. Of course, they yell: "We won!", but how are they supposed to say: "it itself"?
  22. +1
    2 September 2023 17: 39
    The USA did NOT win the Cold War. The collapse of the USSR was due to internal causes a little more than completely, starting with the ideological failure of communism (nothing more than a dream, but by no means the basis of practical planning and construction) and ending with the collapse of national politics.
    1. +1
      2 September 2023 19: 21
      Quote: Radomech
      The USA did NOT win the Cold War. The collapse of the USSR was due to internal causes a little more than completely, starting with the ideological failure of communism (nothing more than a dream, but by no means the basis of practical planning and construction) and ending with the collapse of national politics.

      Surrender is the same as losing. Ancient Rome and the Russian Empire were also ruined by internal contradictions
  23. -1
    2 September 2023 19: 18
    Something too optimistic:
    "the September and November conditional Mukden 2022 followed, from which, I am sure, the right conclusions were also drawn, which will serve as a guarantee of future victories"
    Conclusions had to be drawn from the war in Afghanistan. We are still somehow coping with Ukraine more or less, but what will happen if Japan climbs to take away the Kuriles and NATO wants to fight?
    1. +1
      2 September 2023 23: 04
      Quote from Kartograph
      what will happen if Japan starts to take away the Kuril Islands and NATO wants to fight?

      As a preventive measure, it is necessary to restore relations with the DPRK, which has not forgotten the loss of its independence from 1910 to 1945. It is also necessary to conduct industrial cooperation with this country. We give them plutonium, uranium, petroleum products, they give us self-propelled guns, ammunition, electrical equipment, and chemistry. After the cooling of relations between the USSR and the PRC, the USSR lost access to easy isolation for the missile control system. The DPRK quickly developed technology for the production of synthetic thread. However, the leadership of the USSR purchased this technology and equipment in Italy and not in the DPRK. As a result, the DPRK's expenses for the production of domestic thread did not pay off. The same thing happened in the machine tool industry. The USSR bought machine tools from Europe and Japan, ignoring North Korean offers. In the end, looking at the development of cooperation between the USSR and the West, Kim Il Sung decided not to impose himself as friends on those who ignored his helpfulness and to restore relations with the PRC.
    2. 0
      3 September 2023 19: 56
      “Does NATO want to fight?” If he doesn’t want to, it was not for nothing that I cited Luttwak’s book as an example. In the same Yugoslavia - they should thank Chernomyrdin for it. People in NATO armies do not serve to die in war. And society is not ready for this.
  24. +1
    3 September 2023 03: 37
    The trouble of our country is in her power!!! All sorts of scoundrels climb to the top, who are only smart enough to steal, and for this they push through “reforms” that are unacceptable for our country, which bring nothing but harm.
  25. -1
    3 September 2023 13: 12
    Quote: Igor Khodakov
    Not all have been found. Far. I know, I assure you, not by hearsay.

    Well, I don’t know ... I had contact, and a lot, both with the "Afghans" and with those who in Czechoslovakia wound civilians on caterpillars (a flatmate), and who solved issues in Hungary (a shooting coach in our institute dash) ... I didn’t feel a break in anyone. Here is the father of my childhood girlfriend - he, yes, fought near Luga, returned from there with a shrapnel in his back and flatly refused to talk about the war.
  26. +1
    3 September 2023 13: 40
    the loss of Crimea as a promising naval base in Eastern Europe, from a strategic point of view, incomparably more important than Camp Bondsteel on the Serbian territory occupied by Washington-controlled Albanian gangs and Ramstein in Germany.


    Again I meet this strange thesis about the alleged importance of Sevastopol for NATO as a potential naval base.

    Explain this question to me.
    The distance between Sevastopol and the Romanian naval base Constanta is only 391 kilometers!
    Romania has long been a member of NATO, and Constanta is a huge seaport (much larger than Sevastopol, the 4th in all of Europe!) And the main naval base of Romania.

    Why, according to NATO, is Constanta worse than Sevastopol?
    Who will answer?
    1. -1
      3 September 2023 17: 22
      Quote from: dump22
      Why, according to NATO, is Constanta worse than Sevastopol?

      Firstly, where will our fleet be based? Conditions are worse in Novorossiysk.
      Secondly, how much is it from Sevastopol to Novorossiysk?
      1. 0
        3 September 2023 21: 05
        Firstly, where will our fleet be based?


        Well, I actually asked about NATO, not about us.
        And our fleet has been based in Sevastopol all the time since 1991 and had an agreement until 2042.

        Conditions in Novorossiysk are worse


        For the time being, part of the fleet is in Novorossiysk,
        For example, all our diesel-electric submarines in the Black Sea (4th brigade).

        how far from Sevastopol to Novorossiysk?


        336 km
        1. 0
          5 September 2023 12: 01
          Quote from: dump22
          Firstly, where will our fleet be based?


          Well, I actually asked about NATO, not about us.
          Well, if Ukraine joins NATO, it automatically becomes an adversary, and accordingly the base agreement is canceled. The submarines may be based in Novorossiysk, but there is no infrastructure for the entire fleet
    2. 0
      3 September 2023 19: 58
      Remember the conditions under which we withdrew missiles from Cuba - the United States withdrew Jupiters from Incirlik. Sevastopol relative to Moscow is much more profitable than the Turkish base.
      1. 0
        4 September 2023 00: 14
        Sevastopol relative to Moscow is much more profitable than the Turkish base.


        Well, relative to Moscow, of course, Estonia is most advantageously located. From its borders, only 780 km of rocket flight, it is generally only 3 minutes!
        And Estonia is already in NATO, since 2004!

        It turns out that Tallinn is a better naval base for NATO than Sevastopol?
        1. +1
          4 September 2023 02: 48
          Estonia and especially Finland are much better than Crimea in many respects. From Finland, both St. Petersburg and the bases of the Northern Fleet can be fired almost from a slingshot at once. And to Moscow is not much further than from Estonia.
        2. 0
          5 September 2023 12: 11
          Quote from: dump22
          Sevastopol relative to Moscow is much more profitable than the Turkish base.


          Well, relative to Moscow, of course, Estonia is most advantageously located. From its borders, only 780 km of rocket flight, it is generally only 3 minutes!
          And Estonia is already in NATO, since 2004!

          It turns out that Tallinn is a better naval base for NATO than Sevastopol?

          The question is not what is better, but how to kick us out of there. One extra NATO base is air defense cover and aircraft of the entire Black Sea, and for us, in turn, pushing back the range of air defense, aircraft and fleet
          1. 0
            6 September 2023 16: 27
            One extra NATO base is air defense and aircraft cover for the entire Black Sea


            So the question immediately arises - if NATO supposedly needs a naval base in the Black Sea so badly, why isn't NATO developing at least Constanta now? And Bulgarian Varna and Burgas? And why did it practically not develop before?

            From the moment Romania and Bulgaria joined NATO and until very recently, no rapid development of these naval bases was noticeable.
            NATO did not build these naval bases, because it was patiently waiting for an opportunity to occupy Sevastopol? Let's say. What are they delaying now? Are they again patiently waiting for the Ukrainians to liberate Sevastopol for them? laughing
  27. 0
    3 September 2023 18: 38
    It is surprising that after everything that the United States has done with Vietnam, they are moving towards the United States, various kinds of agreements on US "aid" to Vietnam, etc. in full swing.
    1. 0
      3 September 2023 20: 00
      Politics is the art of the possible. Profitable And there is no desire to hand over Vietnam to India, which is now expanding contacts with it as part of the “Look to the East” strategy.
    2. 0
      3 September 2023 21: 17
      after everything the US did with Vietnam, they are moving towards the US in full swing


      Happens. Countries are reconciled, feuds are forgotten.
      The USA was at war with Britain (1775-1783).
      The USA fought with Canada (1775-1776).
      The US was at war with Spain (1898).
      The United States fought 2 times with Germany (WW1 and WW2).
      The US fought with Italy (WW2).
      The US fought Japan (WW2).
      And all these countries are now US allies.
  28. 0
    3 September 2023 21: 11
    The top of the USSR, infected with the idea of ​​convergence, decided that it was time to abandon the Soviet past and exchange power for money and a place in the world beau monde. But something clearly went wrong.
    1. 0
      4 September 2023 02: 37
      Personally, they didn't do much.
  29. 0
    3 September 2023 22: 16
    Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
    The reason for the US victory in the Cold War was the betrayal of the top of the CPSU, headed by Gorbachev.

    That doesn't change the fact that they won.
  30. 0
    4 September 2023 21: 45
    Quote: Igor Khodakov
    “In this paradigm, an elite has been bred, for more than 200 years, not loosely pluralistic (this is being imposed on the Papuans), but quite cynical and disciplined, brought up in strict colleges with rods.” Johnson and Sunak are not like this) Although they probably were just screens like Biden.

    So it is now, pah-pah, and they don’t have Churchills and Thatchers, not Disraels and Gladstones, but Trass and Johnson. Accordingly, the future of Great Britain is very vague, like Albion. Their elite has degenerated, perhaps more than ours.
    The Rothschilds are already more oriented towards Hong Kong, and not towards London, but these guts and information.
  31. 0
    7 September 2023 14: 29
    Yes, that's the main thing. Stupidly torn. They turned the whole country into a military-industrial complex.

    1. They didn’t strain themselves after the war in the 50s, when they created nuclear and space technologies and won the Korean War. Then life got better and better. We didn’t strain ourselves in the 70s, when we achieved nuclear parity, won the war in Vietnam and life also improved. And they strained themselves when all the conditions were much better.
    2. Little North Korea did not strain itself, Iran did not strain itself, Venezuela did not strain itself, the island of Cuba 90 miles from the USA did not strain itself, but here is the big and mighty USSR, the largest state in the world, with all the elements of the periodic table on its territory and with leading technologies he took it and “strained himself” because of his military-industrial complex.
    The theory of “tearing” the USSR is completely rotten and flawed.
    1. 0
      12 February 2024 06: 54
      The ancient Jews betrayed Christ and after 33 years they ended up in war
      In which not one stone was left upon another from Judea.

      We betrayed the ideas of justice. And March 17 marks the 33rd anniversary of the referendum on the USSR. The decisions of which we also betrayed.
  32. 0
    8 September 2023 11: 39
    What defeat? there was a traitor Gorbachev pen...we were just lucky with him!
  33. 0
    27 October 2023 12: 50
    Quote from: dump22
    after everything the US did with Vietnam, they are moving towards the US in full swing


    Happens. Countries are reconciled, feuds are forgotten.
    The USA was at war with Britain (1775-1783).
    The USA fought with Canada (1775-1776).
    The US was at war with Spain (1898).
    The United States fought 2 times with Germany (WW1 and WW2).
    The US fought with Italy (WW2).
    The US fought Japan (WW2).
    And all these countries are now US allies.

    Correction: Not allies, but satellites...
  34. +1
    7 February 2024 09: 39
    A prologue to the collapse of the USSR i.e. The US victory in the Cold War was our betrayal of Stalin, the murder of Beria and further on the list.... There is always a response for betrayal... this is normal.. Well, we also betrayed the Greek communists, German (GDR Honekerr), Afghan ( Najib-Ullah) ...
  35. 0
    8 February 2024 00: 31
    Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
    The reason for the US victory in the Cold War was the betrayal of the top of the CPSU, headed by Gorbachev.

    Is Yeltsin out of business? Who pulled Gorbachev out too... Brezhnev, who allowed promises in the form of the US national debt to be trusted? Treasures for gold... Purchasing grain from the bourgeoisie... Complete economic illiteracy. Hegemons with a primer. Three letters and still not guessed right.