Penalty, as it is, and not as show

238
Penalty, as it is, and not as show
Once there was an argument about the merits of the “Penalty Battalion” film, which I didn’t like, I read and heard something about such parts and divisions. Therefore, much was implausible there. But then an article appeared eyewitness. We give it in full. I'm right after all.

A few words about the movie “Shtrafbat”



“Shtrafbat” is not the first film about penalty box and, as in previous ones, there are a lot of inaccuracies, even more ad-lib and just lies.

Penal companies and battalions were created by order of Stalin No. 227 from 28 in July 1942 of the year, known as the order “Not one step back”. “Today, July 28, 1942,” the order said, “the Red Army left the city of Rostov, covering their banners with shame.” Under this order, general military armies created from 3 to 5 penal companies, and on every front from 1 to 3 penal battalions (in the second half of the war, respectively, 3 and 1) and detachments received the right to “stop retreating by any means”.

The commander of a penal company and a penal battalion (but not an assault battalion) has the right to increase the term of the fine, and to shoot for a particularly grave crime - desertion. The penalty is removed by the first injury or departure. He is removed from the dead, otherwise the family will not receive a pension. Wild shot with the execution of his penalty box, so that families receive a pension - blasphemy. I don’t know how in the 1942-43 years, but in 1944-45 no detachments stood behind us.



Penalty company - Army, and battalions - frontline submission. And divisions, in areas of which reconnaissance is planned in battle or a breakthrough, are attached to NOT ALL. At any time they can be transferred by the Command to the division of another division. NO divisions of the division headquarters, except for the operational - including SPECIAL - to the punitive company, the penal and assault battalions have no relationship. Penalty units are subordinated to the division commander ONLY in operational terms. In theory, a special department of the Army should deal with punitive companies, and the front should deal with penal and assault battalions. Army and Front - huge connections. They are not up to us. They have a headache and no one will look for additional work. She has already been done in the direction of the penalty box.

I do not know the cases that the penalty box remained hungry. Penalty units have their own economic services and receive food, clothing and vodka from army warehouses, bypassing the division and the regiment, where they can be stolen.

The gunners were not spared - no doctor would risk it. “Its” bullet does not mean anything, the Germans had a huge amount of trophy weapons; there could be a random shot. Self-gun is determined by point burns from the powder grains around the wound inlet. Almost all penalty box in helmets. They and in the usual units did not complain and threw after gas masks. It is not the helmet that saves the Russian soldier, but the omnipotent word “maybe ...”

But the clearance of the battlefield from anti-personnel mines (and not just the penalty box!) Is true. This was confirmed by Marshal Zhukov in an interview with General Eisenhower, having met him in Moscow in the summer of 1945. In his memoirs, the general wrote that it would have been with the American or British Commander to resort to this practice ...

Penalty units are different not only in their composition, but also in morale. Penalty and assault battalions do not need to raise to the attack. The desire to rehabilitate and return, who are lucky, with officer uniform and the right to occupy former or equivalent positions (as a rule, went down) is great. Another thing is a penalty company. It is a delusion to think that the criminals who constituted the main contingent of these companies are eager to give their lives for their homeland. Quite the contrary. And the author knows about this not from similar films ... And there were no fighters at all.

For what fell into the penalty box: leaving the position without an order, the manifestation of cowardice in battle, excess of power, theft, insulting a senior by rank or position, a fight. Criminals, depending on criminal record from 1 to 3 months.

NEVER The army officers, whom the Military Tribunal had not degraded and retained military ranks, were not sent to penal companies — only to officer battalions for one to three months or until the first wound.

NEVER officers who left the encirclement, fled or released from captivity by the advancing units of the Red Army were not sent either to penal companies or to penal battalions - only and exclusively to assault battalions, where the periods did not vary - 6 (six!) months for all! But before that, they had to go through the “purgatory” of the camps of the NKVD, where they had to prove that they did not throw weapons and did not voluntarily go over to the side of the enemy, and who did not succeed in doing so were sent to prisons and camps, and sometimes even to be shot. , if they were different from German ones, then for the worse ... In one of them, in the morning, 200 (two hundred) grams of cereals were given out all day: boil what you want, what you want ...

NEVER the criminals were not sent to serve the punishment to the officer penal battalions - only to the punitive companies, as privates, sergeants and officers degraded by the Tribunal.

NEVER political prisoners were not sent either to penal companies or to penal or assault battalions. Although many of them - sincere patriots - rushed to the front to defend their homeland. Their lot remained logging.

NEVER penal companies were not located in the settlements. And outside the battle they remained in the field, in trenches and dugouts. The “contact” of this difficult contingent with the civilian population is fraught with unpredictable consequences. A party in the village is absurd.

NEVER, even after a minor injury and regardless of the time in the fine division, no one went to the punitive company or battalion again.

NEVER in the penal divisions no one appealed to the authorities "citizen". Only “comrade”. And the commanders did not call their subordinates penalty.

NEVER the commanders of the penal divisions and units were not appointed penalty. The commander of an assault battalion, as a rule, is a lieutenant colonel, and the commanders of five of his mouths: three rifle, mortar and machine-gun - cadre officers, NOT penal penalties. Of the officers of the penalty box appointed platoon commanders.

NOBODY, except political workers, did not “bless” the penalty box before the battle. The blessing of soldiers and officers of the penal battalion before the battle by the PRIEST is bullshit, mockery of the truth and unworthy flirting with the Church. The scene is completely false. Is it the Church’s film that made the money? This was not the case in the Red Army. And could not be.

The film distorts history World War II and causes, taking into account the importance, possibilities and influence of television, irreparable harm to a new generation that does not know the war and does not know the truth about it. The younger generation will think that it was so. It was, but not so. Demonstration on television "Penalty" in the most expensive for the war veterans Victory Day can not but cause condemnation and disappointment.
If the filmmakers (dir. Nick. Dostal, scenes. Ed. Volodarsky), as they deserved it, would be “demoted to the ranks”, I would be happy to enlist them in the 163 51 penalty company of the Army, whose deputy commander I was ...
238 comments
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  1. Frigate
    +48
    2 February 2013 09: 30
    Excellent clarification by the author. it becomes clear that the Shtrafbat were not cowards or traitors, as many believe
    1. +44
      2 February 2013 19: 52
      The explanation is excellent but incomplete. Now I cannot remember the resource on which a "complete" analysis of this, if I may say so, of the film, was carried out. So there, in general, they did not leave a stone unturned from EVERYTHING that is shown in the film. ALL (!) LIES and invention. The front-line soldiers commented there, references to orders, texts of orders on the formation and service in these units. I will try to find a link to that site and attach it to my comment. I also want to say about the story about Zhukov, which the author reproduces in a generally truthful article. And the story is that there is no other evidence other than Eisenhower's memories ... Well, who Eisenhower is after the war, we all know perfectly well - the enemy. And it is not fitting to refer to his opuses, all the more so to those who served in such units.
      1. Kaa
        +10
        2 February 2013 19: 59
        Quote: I think so
        ALL (!) FALSE and fiction

        "Order of the NCO of the USSR

        September 28, 1942 No. 298 Moscow
        With the announcement of the Regulations on the penal battalions and companies and the states of the penal battalion, company and detachment of the army
        I declare for leadership:
        1. The regulations on the penal battalions of the army.
        2. The regulations on the penal companies of the army.
        3. Staff No. 04/393 of the separate penal battalion of the army.
        4. Staff No. 04/392 of a separate penal company of the army.
        5. Staff No. 04/391 of a separate guard detachment of the army.
        Deputy People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR
        army commissar I rank E. SCHADENKO
        “Approving”
        Deputy People's Commissar of Defense Army General G. Zhukov
        26 September 1942 of
        REGULATION ON THE PENALTY BATTERONS OF THE EXISTING ARMY
        I. General Provisions
        1. Penalty battalions aim to enable persons of middle and senior command, political and commanding composition of all military branches, guilty of violating discipline by cowardice or instability, blood atone for their crimes before the motherland by a courageous fight against the enemy in a more difficult area of ​​military operations.
        2. The organization, strength and combat strength, as well as the salaries of the permanent composition of the penal battalions are determined by the special staff.
        3. Penalty battalions are run by military councils of the fronts. Within each front, one to three penal battalions are created, depending on the situation.
        4. The penal battalion is attached to the rifle division (a separate rifle brigade), to which it has been assigned by order of the military council of the front.
        1. Kaa
          +8
          2 February 2013 20: 00
          II. On the permanent composition of the penal battalions
          5. The commanders and military commissars of the battalion and company, the commanders and political leaders of the platoons, as well as the rest of the permanent commanding staff of the penal battalions are appointed by order of the front troops from among the strong-willed and most distinguished commanders and political workers in battle.
          6. The commander and the military commissar of the penal battalion shall use the disciplinary power of the commander and the military commissar of the division with respect to fines; deputy commander and military commissar of the battalion - by the authority of the commander and military commissar of the regiment; commanders and military commissars of the company - by the power of the commander and military commissar of the battalion, and the commanders and political leaders of the platoons - by the power of commanders and political leaders of the companies.
          7. For the entire permanent composition of penal battalions, the terms of service in ranks are reduced by half compared with the command, political and commanding personnel of combat units of the army.
          8. Each month of service in the permanent composition of the penal battalion is counted when assigning a pension for six months.
          III. About fines
          9. Persons of middle and senior command, political and command personnel are sent to penal battalions by order of a division or brigade (in the corps - in relation to the personnel of corps units or in the army and front - in respect of army and front subordination units, respectively) for a period of one up to three months.
          For the same periods, they can also be sent to penal battalions upon the sentence of military tribunals (active army and rear) persons of middle and senior command, political and commanding personnel convicted with the use of deferral of sentence (Note 2 to Article 28 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR).
          Persons sent to the penal battalion are immediately reported by the command and the military council of the front with a copy of the order or sentence attached.
          Note. Commanders and military commissars of battalions and regiments may be sent to the penal battalion only upon the sentence of a military tribunal of the front.
          10. Persons of middle and senior command, political and command personnel sent to the penal battalion by the same order for a division or brigade (corps, army or front troops, respectively) (Art. 9) are subject to demotion to rank and file.
          11. Before being sent to the penal battalion, the finesman is placed in front of the formation of his unit (subunit), the order is read out for the division or brigade (corps, army or front troops, respectively) and the essence of the crime is explained.
          Orders and medals are taken away from the penalty box and while he is in the penal battalion, they are transferred to the front personnel department for storage.
          12. Fines issued a special Red Army book.
          13. For failure to comply with an order, self-mutilation, escape from the battlefield or attempted transfer to the enemy, the command and political personnel of the penal battalion are required to apply all measures of influence, including the execution on the spot.
          14. Penalties may be appointed by order of the penal battalion to the posts of junior command staff with the assignment of the rank of corporal, junior sergeant and sergeant.
          The fines appointed to the junior command staff are paid maintenance for the positions held, the remaining fines - in the amount of 8 rubles. 50 kopecks per month. Field money is not paid to fines.
          The payment of money to the family on the monetary certificate ceases, and it is transferred to the allowance established for the families of Red Army soldiers and junior commanders Decrees of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of June 26, 1941 and of July 19, 1942
          1. Kaa
            +12
            2 February 2013 20: 01
            15. For military distinction, a finesman may be released ahead of schedule on the proposal of the command of the penalty battalion, approved by the military council of the front.
            For a particularly outstanding military distinction, a finesman, in addition, is presented with a government award.

            Before leaving the penal battalion, a parole who is prematurely released is placed in front of the battalion, an order for early parole is read out and the essence of the feat accomplished is explained.
            16. Upon serving the appointed time, fines are presented by the command of the battalion to the military council of the front for release and, upon approval of the submission, are released from the penalty battalion.
            17. All released from the penal battalion are restored in rank and in all rights.
            18. Penalties who have been injured in battle are considered to have served their sentence, reinstated in their ranks and in all rights, and shall be sent to recover further service upon recovery, and persons with disabilities shall be assigned a pension from the salary of their last position before being admitted to the penalty battalion.

            19. The families of the dead fines are assigned a pension on a common basis with all families of commanders from the salary of the last position until they are sent to the penalty battalion.
    2. +10
      4 February 2013 22: 55
      If this video is shown on ORT or at least in Zvezda, then it can be considered that all the same, positive shifts are taking place in the country. But for now, filmets are showing on federal TV (tsar; penal battalion; bastards).
      1. SSR
        +10
        6 February 2013 16: 13
        Quote: Dilshat
        If this video is shown on ORT or

        The situation on TV and on the same MosFilm are very similar ...
        Take Mosfilm for example .. as you pass the central entrance, turn and enter the building on the right, then onto the elevator and to the second (sort of) floor and there is a sign. ** Bondarchuk worked here and his quote is there "Talents need help and mediocrity will break through themselves" (c) and that we already see a "star" from the shaggy nephew and he is essentially a glamorous ***** which haits our Country and Army.
        Heh. let our Sergei Mikhalkov - talent and how much good he did and look at his "offspring" the further the worse ... already on the grandchildren a complete sad **** and most importantly everyone climbs into directors and so on .. family business however.
        Take the stage .. the same crap
        Television + pop music is run by one three two races .. who are close to how western souls are warmed by homosexual frauds, adoptions ...
        Pugacheva ... was Pugacheva .. now the business is wafer Pugachev .. marriages with three two races Kirkorov, Galkin .. purely PR and business ...
        (five years working in this gadyushnik)
        At MosFilm there were so many really talented spiritualized people (then. I don’t know now) but they were not allowed to break through.
  2. +44
    2 February 2013 09: 46
    There are a dime a dozen of such disgusting directors and screenwriters, "artists" perverting the history of the Great Patriotic War and not only it.
    We must not release films on historical, burning topics without the approval of public councils or something. Advice in which competent people would be present. .
    For me, this kind of pornography is not scary, but for the younger, and less "savvy" in the historical sense, people are undoubtedly harmful.
    Water to the mill of those who wish to permanently eradicate the patriotic feeling in our Fatherland.
    1. +31
      2 February 2013 09: 55
      the fact of the matter is that after the movie Shtrafbat many considered this series a kind of standard ... it’s very disappointing how many people prefer to love noodles, which they hang on with similar films and tales ..
      1. Dikremnij
        +11
        2 February 2013 17: 48
        Frankly speaking, before watching the film about penal battalions from the "Altar of Victory" cycle, he himself believed in the veracity of the series shot by Nikolai Dostal. True, the actors' play in this series ("Penal Battalion") is certainly worthy of respect.
        And now the video in the topic:
    2. AlexW
      +10
      2 February 2013 21: 01
      Alekseev, Dostal, Volodarsky - simple Gus surnames laughing
      1. +9
        3 February 2013 19: 30
        disgraceful ART!
    3. Chern
      +5
      3 February 2013 01: 44
      So after all let out same. And, it seems, quite consciously.
      1. +4
        3 February 2013 01: 50
        Releasing what hawla people ...
    4. Quiet
      +15
      3 February 2013 19: 48
      In Soviet times, a military consultant was present on the set ...
      1. +5
        4 February 2013 12: 13
        Duc, now the freedom to spoil everything Soviet and Russian. That crap to the best of imagination and education.
    5. +6
      4 February 2013 07: 35
      Such disgusting directors and screenwriters, "artists" perverting the history of the Great Patriotic War and not only it is now a dime a dozen; especially in recent years! once watched a film called "heaven on fire" where the department went to reconnaissance and must have come to the village and immediately to the local priest the submissive at the entrance to the priest's monastery without embarrassment of his commander and the consequences, immediately began to cross himself, , and how is it necessary to be baptized correctly? and so two or three times, well, the priest immediately agreed to help them. By the way, this priest seemed to me to be an agent of German intelligence. There is nothing to be done, so the film was made!
    6. 0
      31 August 2018 16: 55
      It is not necessary to release films on historical, burning topics without the approval of public councils
      scenarios for the shooting of historical and patriotic films to adjust and approve in the relevant advice. No need to shoot unverified slag.
  3. +21
    2 February 2013 09: 53
    It’s necessary to print it out and send it to the gentlemen of the Cinema Creators .... but lately, how wonderful almost in every film the excellent acting work is combined with such blunders .... what a horror. Thank you read with great interest.
    1. vikontas56
      +22
      2 February 2013 17: 16
      The fact is that these films are made by people who receive loot precisely for lying, serving the haters of our common victory and praying for the USA as a winner in World War II! So they are trying to smear our history with shit so that the younger generation does not consider their people to be victors , and the country that wants to destroy him!
      1. +20
        2 February 2013 20: 44
        Today, on NTV, the news story went on celebrating the victory in the Battle of Stalingrad in Volglograd, well, everything seems to be a good parade, veterans, flowers .... until the T-34 tank arrived on the square, here the announcer blurted out (oh, better not to say would) he said ... here goes a tank that took part in the Battle of Stalingrad ... it was knocked out here and was repaired right there .... it’s kind of like it would have said normally ... but the T-34-85 tank ...., it’s not a paid slander ... it’s darkness, and most importantly this blunder told to the whole of Russia and the whole world will go unpunished, and yet all this misrepresentation of history begins with such trifles ... It's a shame for the state !
        1. +7
          3 February 2013 12: 30
          Quote: Bosk
          it is darkness

          We also showed a "small message" in the news, but at the same time they managed to squeeze in an "interview" with some man, 35 years old, and allegedly a local resident: "I don't know, this name is Stalingrad, for me it is not necessary "
          THIS IS HOW THE BRAINS ARE RINSED !!!!!
        2. +7
          3 February 2013 19: 32
          what Minister of Education and such processes ....
          1. +7
            4 February 2013 01: 53
            It's a shame that the film did not undergo censorship, as it was under the USSR. I would now be lying on the shelf and not spoil the younger generation. The actors, of course, played their roles amazingly. In general, apart from a military consultant, historians are also needed to shoot such films. to invite consultants.
            1. Gur
              +14
              4 February 2013 07: 56
              We now have what is not a film about a war, it is a "masterpiece", much better and more reliably filmed about bandits and thieves, that's where you can't dig. And about the Second World War, only one worthy film in 20 years, "Brest Fortress", so such a film with such difficulty made its way onto the screen. Films that are destined to lie on the shelf, but probably not to lie, but generally would not have been filmed at a decent time, probably everything from Mikhalkov with his shit about scorched by the sun to Shakhnozarov with his white tiger. Now on the 1st is the "epic" "Night Swallow" was enough for the floor of the first episode, then only mats and no longer watch this crap - a fantastic half-truth. After such a film, you just want to demand censorship and artistic advice, and a criminal article for libel and distortion of historical truth. It seems like yesterday Putin said about this that they say that this should not be allowed, so damn it, do something, at least following the example of the general secretaries, look at what was removed.
              1. +3
                4 February 2013 15: 56
                For directors, the main thing is to ensure box office receipts or ratings when shown on television, then you can give out "spreading cranberries". The main thing is that the consumer has a tickle in the throat and a tear welling up. A typical Hollywood movie trick. Historical accuracy is an empty phrase for them.
                But there is a good film about the penal battalion "Gu-ha".
            2. 0
              12 May 2013 18: 28
              That's just where they find SUCH military consultants who do not know anything about weapons, equipment and methods of its use. A high rank does not mean that he knows history, etc., for starters, let them try to shoot a rifle with one hand as a combat, rather than a blank cartridge (a charge of gunpowder is 2,5 g, like a 12-gauge gun). Sometimes I want to spit on such consultants, and the credits read Major General such-and-such. Ugh!
            3. Swift
              +1
              24 May 2013 02: 45
              censor these films. If it were true, he would not have passed modern censorship at the stage of the script.
        3. 0
          31 August 2018 16: 58
          and what should the announcer say? a tank rides that has nothing to do with Stalingrad and just drove by? Or maybe this tank participated in the 50s in the Stalingrad battle for the crop, was hit by an inept technician and the speaker did not lie?
  4. avt
    +57
    2 February 2013 09: 56
    Well, that's short and clear! But how many people were led to Volodarsky's vomit called “punishment battalion”. And the film, “bastards”? The floor is necessary, the Germans really had an attempt to make saboteurs out of children, but here well .......! EVERYONE IS DOING TO INSULT THE PEOPLE INTO THE WINNER, UNDERSTANDING THE TRUTH, UNDER THE PRESENTATION OF TRUTH, AND MAKE EVEN NOT TO REPENT, BUT TO BOTTLE !!!!
    1. brr77
      +12
      2 February 2013 10: 40
      avt,
      I would give you 5 pluses but it is impossible according to the rules of the site!
      but still ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ !!!!
    2. Nechai
      +2
      2 February 2013 19: 43
      Quote: avt
      The floor is necessary, the Germans really had an attempt to make saboteurs out of children,

      Moreover, long before the 41st, adolescents who were thoroughly prepared were infiltrated into the Union. With the task of graduating from a Soviet school, enrolling in a military school. First and foremost, communication. If it is impossible to obtain a call for ICE, again - communication, encryption units ...
    3. wax
      +10
      3 February 2013 15: 15
      Lenin was not so wrong when he said (wrote), albeit in a fit of controversy, to Gorky about Mr. ..but the nation.
      It's simple: filmed every now and then to get international prizes. Then the "honored" go up and there they are already directing, which is good, which is bad. A striking example is Sokurov. He would try to make a film about Reagan during his Alzheimer's. And about Lenin in a state of paralysis - you can and with a bang. Mikhalkov Nikita is the same. Specialists. Where are we with the muzzle snout.
    4. MrK
      +3
      3 January 2017 19: 05
      Quote: avt
      But how many people were led to Volodarsky's vomit called "penal battalion". And the film "bastards


      Colleagues. Let's compare that over the last 15 years, it was shot about the Great Patriotic War in the USA and in Russia. To begin with, we list American films.
      1998 year. "Save Private Ryan." The film is patriotic to the bone. Americans are portrayed as heroes.
      1998 year. "Thin red line." Americans depicted as heroes.
      2001 year. The series "Brothers in Arms". Shows the combat path of the 5th company of the 101th US airborne division. Americans are portrayed as heroes.
      2002 year. Talking to the Wind. Americans are portrayed as heroes.
      2006 year. "Flags of our fathers." Americans are portrayed as heroes.
      2010 year. "Pacific Theater". Americans are portrayed as heroes.
      2012 year. The Red Tails. The story of an American fighter squadron in which black American pilots fight. Not the friendship of nations, but its beginning. Americans are portrayed as heroes.
      2014 year. "Fury." Feature film about the crew of the Sherman tank in Germany in the last month of World War II in Europe. Americans are portrayed as heroes.
      2014 year. Unbroken. Americans are portrayed as heroes.
      1. MrK
        +3
        3 January 2017 19: 09
        Read more.
        But what was filmed in Russia at the same time:
        2004 year. The series "Shtrafbat". Soviet soldiers are depicted as cattle.
        2005 year. "The last battle of Major Pugachev." Soviet people are depicted as cattle.
        2006 year. "Bastards." Soviet people are depicted as cattle.
        2011 year. “Burnt by the Sun-2. Citadel". In two parts. Fighters of the Red Army are shown by a crowd of cattle, commanders and political workers - villains, freaks and alcoholics.
        2012 year. "4 days in May." A fictional episode about the attempted mass rape by Russian soldiers of the inhabitants of a German shelter for the blind in May 1945. Soviet soldiers are depicted as cattle.
        2012 year. "Match". The film is artistic. Filmed for the 70 anniversary of the "death match" in Kiev. Soviet people are depicted as cattle.
        But on this rabid anti-Russian propaganda did not stop.
        I will quote fragments of the discussion of the series shown on the main TV channel of Russia - ORT in 2015: “Finished showing a film about Orlova and Alexandrov. In the series, Stalin and Beria look like two Kremlin sadist-villains, two maniacs who only think: how to shoot someone else, poison or concoct a business. And both, of course, pester Orlova. This is what idiots we need to consider us spectators to believe in such nonsense!».
        There are different ways to try to “take away Victory” from the Russian people. You can just go on saying that the main thing in the defeat of fascism was played by the Americans, and most of the victims were Jews. But there is another, more sophisticated way - to create the dirty, disgusting, bestial appearance of World War II and the Victory itself. This is what the creators of such films do together with historians. Recent series of such films make me think that I am sitting in a country defeated by Hitler and watching a movie created by Goebbels propaganda. That is, after all, what actually turned out to be a victory in the war - a victory of the criminal regime, which is no better than the fascist one.
        But even worse, in such films our people are shown capable of being only a victim who does not know how to fend for herself. That the enemy is both the fascists and the CPSU (b). And they won despite the party, i.e. in the struggle against the fascists and against it. But most importantly, the film celebrates humility, inability to defend oneself.
        From A. Kurlyandchik's book "Damned" Soviet power ... on Proza.ru
  5. +40
    2 February 2013 10: 25
    Documentary films of Mr. Mlechin, "Penal Battalion", "Bastards" and a lot of other crap, passed off as historical truth, are multiplying due to impunity for lies. It is necessary to legally establish responsibility for distorting facts, lying and other manifestations distorting reality.
    The thoroughly false film "Penal Battalion" is an example of abomination!
    Like many of us, I deeply despise the creators of this pseudo-historical pornography!
    1. dima_talib
      +19
      2 February 2013 18: 24
      Unfortunately, these "anti-patriotic and pseudo-historical slops" are splashed on our heads with enviable regularity.
      And our society, "toleirasts" is not able to replace these highly artistic gifts of 3,14.
      Who heard that someone would be thrown into a rotten egg when they stomp along the red carpet at the next film festival ???
      So that the stupid head was broken in the gateway for the memory of heroic grandfathers smeared with shit?
      Or at least a car burned, bought for shit driven into the heads of our children?
      That one. I am ashamed ...
      How is it that you can’t see feature films where Stepan or Dudaev Johar would be shown to Bandera in foul light ?!
      Know "great creators" that they can unpredictably quickly complete their earthly path. By chance...
      Why no one wonders WHO FINANCES THESE MOVIES ???
      Why, our leaders have enough will and wisdom to pay their due to Tymoshenko and Khodorkovsky.
      And of these, nobody even pinched.
      There is now in Odessa, Mikhalkov Nikitka - sculpting another pseudo-historical masterpiece. Revised (accidentally) his "tired 2" ...
      Well, pure nonsense. Only the mosquito at the beginning of the film and the spider at the end look decent. Everything else can not be watched. If he could, then he would play both a mosquito and a spider in this film (to reinforce his insanity)
      Regarding the article, I also think that not everything is clear.
      My grandfather, came out of the encirclement FOUR TIMES ... No "cleansing" or something like that ... Came out with a party card and weapons, what questions? Fight on.
      1. mamba
        +9
        3 February 2013 13: 55
        Quote: dima_talib
        There is now in Odessa, Mikhalkov Nikitka - sculpting another pseudo-historical masterpiece. Revised (accidentally) his "tired 2" ...
        Well, pure nonsense.

        Nikita Sergeevich claimed that he had studied hundreds of documents and had listened to the stories of his "front-line father"! fool I also spit when I watched this crap. By the way, in this film, the main character, demoted from generals to privates, spent almost the entire war in a penal battalion, sort of without the right to restoration. And the NA has such blunders in each of his films about the war. It’s even disgusting to remember. angry
        However, budget money, i.e. out of our pocket, he spends tens of millions on his bullshit. negative
        1. +4
          3 February 2013 19: 34
          Mikhalkov in such a shit that grandchildren can’t get off the bat ... That dad is a nomenklaturzik, that son ...
          1. SSR
            0
            6 February 2013 16: 26
            Quote: vezunchik
            Mikhalkov in such a shit that grandchildren can’t get off

            there is not only Mikhalkov here all over the TV, the film industry, the stage is such "tops"
            Konstantin Kryukov. The nephew of Fedor Bondarchuk rushed from his place in the film career quite briskly, showing himself a talented actor. He was glorified by the role of the Mona Lisa in "9th company", then success was enshrined in the youth film "Heat".

            This is the most rotten territory where they rule today two two races.
        2. +5
          5 February 2013 18: 58
          Mikhalkov confused the Red Army with the Wehrmacht, it was there that the fighter soldier was without the right to rehabilitation.
          1. +4
            6 February 2013 12: 46
            And in my opinion, he just moved his mind, he came to us in excitement creepy and with a number on his leg lol .. In Nikita, in my opinion, the roof is already going ..
          2. +2
            27 October 2016 13: 35
            Quote: shasherin_pavel
            Mikhalkov confused the Red Army with the Wehrmacht, it was there that the fighter soldier was without the right to rehabilitation.

            There is an honest and truthful collection of documents. "Penal battles on both front lines". This is in support of your words. We read what happened in our penal battalions in this post. You are right when you write that a German penalty box could be released from punishment in two cases: when he served his sentence in full, which was rare, or when he was killed, which was more often.
  6. CCA
    CCA
    +13
    2 February 2013 10: 51
    with pleasure I would enroll them (dir. Nick. Dostal, scenes. Ed. Volodarsky) in the 163 penalty company of the 51st Army, of which I was the deputy commander ...
    But this would probably not hurt before making a film ...
  7. Algor73
    +12
    2 February 2013 11: 33
    The longer from the war, the fewer eyewitnesses, the fewer those who know about the war. And those who stayed hardly watch movies. Check out the current war films - all shot in the action genre. then the youth will not look. I love watching movies like this. But not through what is interesting, but through looking for falsehood. These are not films, these are fairy tales about the war (which only the film "Fog" means). And young people, after all, perceive them as reality.
    1. +8
      6 February 2013 12: 49
      The best films about the war, these are not the 50x-60s color branches, albeit without the current graphics, without special effects. People shot it. who knew about the war not by hearsay, the front-line soldiers took pictures of themselves and their country, of those who survived and won.
      1. +7
        6 February 2013 15: 23
        Quote: ruton
        The best films about the war, these are not the 50x-60s color branches, albeit without the current graphics, without special effects. People shot it. who knew about the war not by hearsay, the front-line soldiers took pictures of themselves and their country, of those who survived and won.

        By the way, yes! "It was the month of May" by Peter Todorovsky. Awesome film and he was there in his front tunic, with his well-deserved awards. Well, here's another favorite movie, to the above. Thanks for reminding me.
  8. +10
    2 February 2013 12: 00
    The problem is that for many years many topics, incl. such as penal battalions were, one might say, "banned." And this, of course, was used by our lesbirast gameokrats who were the first to highlight this topic and, of course, did it as they needed. Since the general trend of the Western world today is a revision of the course, results and assessments of the participants of the 2nd World War, whose task is to belittle, belittle the decisive role of the USSR, Russia, the Russian soldier in the defeat of fascism, put them on a par with Hitler's Germany, the fascist horde, then our "filmmakers" blinded their film in this spirit, passing off "invented revelations" as the truth of life and, showing our Army in an unsightly form, made their contribution to the deployed anti-Russian campaign. So they try to drive the younger generation that the real noble savior of the world from fascism, the knight of goodness, is depicted in American films such as "Saving Private Ryan" and it is they who cover the main events of World War II.



    --
  9. +15
    2 February 2013 12: 16
    "... penalty box commanders were NEVER appointed commanders of penal units. The commander of an assault battalion, as a rule, is a lieutenant colonel, and the commanders of his five companies: three rifle, mortar and machine-gun companies are career officers, NOT penalty boxes ..."

    Probably everyone knows that for combatants in seniority one day is counted as three, but not many know that for commanders of fine units and units (that is, for the permanent staff of fine units - not for fines), one day of service in such units was counted as five
    Such arithmetic.
    1. +1
      18 August 2017 07: 01
      In fact, one day counted as six, if by order ...
  10. Avenger711
    0
    2 February 2013 12: 19
    http://book.libertorrent.com/viewtopic.php?t=9110

    Read necessarily.
    However, according to the organizational structure, there are documents as well.
  11. zhvn
    +6
    2 February 2013 12: 55
    My grandfather was demoted to a private, after he escaped from the camp with his comrades after captivity and partisaned until the front went west. GB checked and poisoned in the penal battalion. The security officer shouted - "you are a Soviet officer, you are a communist - you should have shot yourself."
    While the German infantry approached the tanks, his orderly managed to tear off his epaulettes and dig him with a party card. Woke up - dragged.
    Write for a long time. After the penal battalion, they were restored to the rank. This is a different story, as their bombers finished them off when they after surviving the battle had already survived in the German trenches.
    1. avt
      +17
      2 February 2013 13: 31
      Quote: zhvn
      My grandfather was demoted to a private, after he escaped from the camp with his comrades after captivity and partisaned until the front went west. GB checked and poisoned in the penal battalion. The security officer shouted - "you are a Soviet officer, you are a communist - you should have shot yourself."
      While the German infantry approached the tanks, his orderly managed to tear off his epaulettes and dig him with a party card. Woke up - dragged.
      Write for a long time. After the penal battalion, they were restored to the rank. This is a different story, as their bombers finished them off when they after surviving the battle had already survived in the German trenches.

      And who says everything was plush and covered in chocolate? Your grandfather had a hard lot - he passed with honor, did not break down and glory to him! But what you are talking about just confirms that everything was not like the “destalinizers” are blowing in your ears. Well, the truth is, according to THEIR logic, your grandfather should have been immediately shot, at best, in Magadan. bombing, so this is a classic case of "friendly fire" as the amers put it, but this does not make it easier for a person lying under fire, and in this case it is also insulting, and even with modern means of communication - such cases are not rare in modern wars, what to say about the 2nd World War. I read the memoirs of a stormtrooper who fought with the Japanese. He received a penalty squadron for the accident {he fought in the same unit, but the number of combat sorties determined by the court did not go into the flight book, they were not defended as combat missions, and of course they were not awarded}, so he said - in Manjuri, ground units were advancing so quickly, did not have time to change the task of the pilots, they hit their own. After the war, even the pilots were beaten.
      1. 0
        25 October 2016 12: 17
        Quote: avt
        He received a penal squadron for the accident {fought in the same unit, but the number of sorties determined by the court did not go into the flight book, the military did not defend themselves and naturally did not reward}, he told

        It looks like your attack aircraft has lied ...
    2. Yarbay
      +7
      4 February 2013 03: 04
      Quote: zhvn

      My grandfather was demoted to a private, after he escaped from the camp with his comrades after captivity and partisaned until the front went west. GB checked and poisoned in the penal battalion. The security officer shouted - "you are a Soviet officer, you are a communist - you should have shot yourself."
      While the German infantry approached the tanks, his orderly managed to tear off his epaulettes and dig him with a party card. Woke up - dragged.
      Write for a long time. After the penal battalion, they were restored to the rank. This is a different story, as their bombers finished them off when they after surviving the battle had already survived in the German trenches.

      I personally knew the commander of the penalty company HERO OF THE SOVIET UNION Academician Ziya Buniyatov!

      After finishing ten classes, he entered the Baku Infantry School, which he graduated in May 1941 with the rank of lieutenant, having also been appointed commander of a small platoon in Bender in Moldova. On the fronts of World War II from August 1942. He took an active part in the battles for Ukraine, Moldova, the North Caucasus (in the battles for Mozdok and Tuapse), Belarus and Poland. In battles he showed courage, in one of them, making his way through the front line, he brought out a regimental banner from the encirclement. In a defensive battle in the foothills of the Caucasus, Zia Buniyatov commanded a company of 120 soldiers, which also included 50 sailors of the Volga flotilla from Saratov. During one of the battles, 17 people from his company destroyed 15 enemy armored vehicles, and he himself received a shrapnel wound to the head. During the Tuapse operation, Lieutenant Buniyatov was injured in the leg and after treatment in the hospital was in Taganrog. The newspaper "Red Star" in 1942 wrote about him: "Swift, like a tiger, a scout Zia Buniyatov in incredible conditions could bring accurate data on the size, weapons and deployment of the enemy." Having quarreled with the command, Buniyatov was sent to the penalty company. In January 1945, a divisional commander called him in and offered to become the commander of the penal company. Captain Buniyatov was appointed commander of the 123rd penal company (5th shock army, 1st Belorussian front). On January 14, during the Vistula-Oder operation in a battle near the village of Palchek, a company under the command of Captain Buniyatov captured a mined bridge over the Pilitsa River and held it for several hours until the main forces arrived. In battle, 100 enemy soldiers were destroyed, 45 were taken prisoner. 5 six-barrel mortars and 3 artillery pieces were captured. Of the 670 company soldiers, 47 remained alive. As a result of the company’s mission, the Soviet troops entered the operational space between the Vistula and Oder rivers and soon moved to a distance of about 90 km from Berlin. The title of Hero of the Soviet Union was awarded to Buniyatov on February 27, 1945. In the battles for Berlin, the Bunyats rescued civilians hiding in the subway when its tunnels were flooded by retreating Nazis. By the time of the surrender of Germany, he fought to the area of ​​the Silesian railway station, and only seven of the seven hundred soldiers of his company remained in service. For valor and heroism shown during the assault on the Zeelov Heights, Zia Buniyatov was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. During the war years, Ziya Buniyatov was wounded and shell-shocked several times, but always returned to duty. One fragment was removed 30 years after being wounded.

      Details: http://www.1news.az/society/20121224065827854.html
  12. +16
    2 February 2013 13: 02
    From the end of the 80s to the mid-2000s, there was some kind of black strip in the cinema about the Second World War, 90% of them were filmed with one negative and defamation, quite often the uniform slander about the role of the Red Army, the country's leadership in the Great Victory !!! the so-called "cultural figure" negative !
    1. +19
      2 February 2013 14: 09
      The Chaldeans came to the Temple of Remembrance with one goal - profit! Mikhalkov and his comrades suck state money and cook not just bad taste, but also frankly harmful, distorting historical realities, deforming memory of pseudo-artistic crafts. The state seems to have forgotten that the very same "braces" are needed.
      The white tiger is another nonsense. And again - prizes, eulogies.
      Vomit!
      1. itkul
        +16
        2 February 2013 16: 14
        Quote: Chen
        Mikhalkov and his comrades suck state money and cook up not just bad taste, but also frankly harmful, distorting historical realities, distorting the memory of pseudo-artistic crafts.


        I haven’t watched a single new Mikhalkov film, but I really liked the review of the film
        1. Charon
          +8
          2 February 2013 22: 51
          I watched the film. I confirm deliriousness. In the review everything is said and shown correctly.
        2. Felix200970
          +7
          3 February 2013 18: 04
          What do you want from Mikhalkov? Dad wrote the anthem of the USSR. Uncle - anthem for the Third Reich request
      2. xan
        0
        3 February 2013 13: 35
        Quote: Chen
        The white tiger is another nonsense.

        I liked the white tiger
        solid allegory, but correct allegory
        and courage n
    2. +6
      2 February 2013 14: 21
      Everything is as it should be in an occupied country.
    3. +3
      2 February 2013 17: 50
      The question is, on whose grandmother this filth was filmed ...
      1. Nechai
        +7
        2 February 2013 19: 49
        On whose, on whose ... On ours!
  13. -18
    2 February 2013 14: 08
    Very tough review. Thanks to the author for the information, but also please do not strain. The film is not documentary, but fiction, that is, a fictional one. 99% of its content is fiction. And the reason for the creation was something like an anniversary date from the calendar.
    1. +25
      2 February 2013 18: 01
      Yes, it would be all right, if 10 of such "art" was born at least one picture like, Hot snow, Only old people go to battle, Cranes are flying, They fought for the Motherland, Chronicle of a diving bomber ...
      Fiction is not always as harmless as it seems to you.
      -Mikhalkov with his lads with batons on his shoulder goes to take the Citadel,
      - Serebrennikov with thieves either fights, or suffers from organs,
      -Night witches refuel at a German airfield,
      - The tiger shoots with a shot frequency of 2 seconds, firing at Soviet tanks,
      - etc. etc.
      Films wrappers, giving nothing, not teaching anything, and for state money.
      1. xan
        +1
        3 February 2013 13: 38
        I liked the white tiger
        solid allegory, but correct allegory
        and the courage of our tankers is shown strongly
        1. +1
          3 February 2013 14: 23
          "White Tiger" is a film of another level. In something mystic, in something fantastic. But he is completely different. Although, many on the site perceived it as a reality and even very much argued about the qualities of our and the German-fascist tankers and tanks.
          1. Quiet
            +2
            3 February 2013 20: 17
            Fill in the search engine "Librusek", and in it "White Tiger". The book reads more interesting ...
            1. +7
              4 February 2013 02: 16
              Eh, they used to shoot films, "The battalions are asking for fire!", Ozerov's epic ...... the list is large.
              1. +4
                4 February 2013 14: 50
                One of the best bard songs about the war, only better when it is performed by the author, Leonid Sergeyev.
          2. +5
            4 February 2013 21: 24
            And for me, this same Tiger is a complete mess.
            50-odd-ton fool ...
            Well, we’ll get our super-duper tank, WITH A STABILIZER ...
            I did not see the work of this stabilizer in any frame.
            They made a pseudo-mystical delirium even without a normal ending.
            TV pearl, moreover, on the water.
            1. +3
              4 February 2013 21: 29
              The idea is interesting .... and then, as usual, leaked
  14. Kubanets
    +11
    2 February 2013 14: 23
    I recommend to everyone who is interested. A. Pyltsin "The Truth About Penal Battals" Publishing House "Eksmo" 2007. Officer of the permanent staff of the 8th OTSB passed from the Dnieper to the Oder. Pyltsin's recollections leave no stone unturned from the perverted fantasy of Volodarsky A. Pyltsin writes that there was only one incident in his memory. And after that, the commander Batov, who had given the order, had a tough and impartial conversation with the front commander Rokossovsky in the sense that it would take a long and expensive time to train and educate new competent officers. Why ruin ready-made experienced officers, even if they are guilty.
    1. ViPChe
      +8
      3 February 2013 12: 07
      Absolutely right. In 1975, for the 30th anniversary of the Victory, he was preparing an essay "Nobody is forgotten, nothing is forgotten." The head of the department, a front-line anti-tank soldier, spoke about how an offensive was being prepared in one of the penal battalions, to which his platoon was attached. He was impressed by the clarity of the design of combat graphic documents, the setting of tasks and the provision of anti-tank crews during the battle in terms of coordination and assistance in moving weapons. The losses of the battalion were minimal, and his platoon left the battle as good as new :-) He did not see this either before or after this event, although he ended the war in Berlin.
      1. xan
        0
        4 February 2013 16: 02
        ViPChe,
        officers fought in penal battalions
        those who were better prepared were better at war. The infantry of the spacecraft had such a wide range of combat readiness - Mama Do not Cry, see the Battle of Balaton, the infantry mostly escaped.
  15. +4
    2 February 2013 14: 32
    The number of penal battalions varied depending on the front commander. Zhivov had the biggest live-swallow.
    NEVER officers who escaped from the encirclement, escaped or were released from captivity by the advancing units of the Red Army were not sent to the penal companies or to the penal battalions - only and exclusively to the assault battalions, where the terms did not vary - 6 (six!) Months for everyone! But before that they had to go through the “purgatory” of the NKVD camps, where they had to prove that they hadn’t abandoned their weapons and didn’t voluntarily go over to the enemy’s side, and whoever couldn’t succeed, were sent to prisons and camps, and sometimes to be shot ... These camps , if they differed from the German ones, then for the worse ... In one of them in the morning for the whole day 200 (two hundred) grams of cereals were given out: cook whatever you want, what you want ...
    Sorry, but there are always more claims to the command staff. He went out himself, and where are the subordinates? Why gave up, for what reason. Why did you leave positions? Therefore, they were sent to filtration camps. Where the survey was conducted and conclusions were drawn. I am in doubt about the nutrition. Moreover, if I take into account documentary sources. I recommend: Alexander Dyukov, "what Soviet people fought for"
    1. +7
      3 February 2013 14: 23
      Quote: Vasya
      Zhivov had the biggest live-swallow.

      Why is the Marshal of Victory - a live-swallow? Too many Germans exterminated?
      1. +1
        3 February 2013 17: 18
        Above is the post about Pyltsyn, please find and download it in any free library, read it, and maybe you will not think so about "live-throats" ..
      2. +1
        12 May 2013 20: 25
        No, I was defeating the enemy with too much blood! The front-line soldiers who fought under the command of Zhukov called him "the butcher", I am responsible for my words!
        "Why is the Marshal of Victory - a swallower? Too many Germans exterminated?"
    2. +4
      5 February 2013 19: 41
      Of the NarKomat State Security camps, which included the Convoy Divisions, one of which fought in the Brest Fortress in 41 and the Border Territory. NKVD - People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs. When did the police arrest and protect the military? As for "purgatory", if a soldier went out with a unit, then there were no claims to it and could not be, but those who joined the unit in the occupied territory were eliminated from it for Filtering. Even after the German "concentration camps" if five people were vouched for you in writing, then the soldier was sent either to the hospital, with severe exhaustion, or to the front. I read this episode from one veteran, he wrote that five days later, when a column was being assembled from the liberated to replenish the division, a neighbor in the concentration camp barrack approached him and asked him to write him a recommendation for release, he received the following answer: “You walk with a blank sheet of paper , apparently the guys remember how you went to the commandant's barracks “to wash the floors.” So, if someone writes about cleaning in the camps and compares them with German concentration camps, then apparently he did not find guarantors for his conscience. soldiers V.V., if you saw mistrust of such a soldier who was a soldier who honestly went out on the fifth day? About demining with the feet of soldiers: Do you want Zhukov to give Esenhaur drawings of our tank trawls? But these mine sweepers used in Krasnaya Armies from 42 years remained secret until 68, only after this year in the American Army were they able to create something copying the pole. Or maybe he remembered how in 43 the Germans put minefields against the end The orientation of our tanks was entirely of anti-tank mines, when the sappers proved this, the infantry broke into the German trenches and made it possible for the sappers to clear the minefield in front of the tanks without interference. Esenhaura was being fed up, and everyone caught it. They even started to show it for granted. And in his speech in July 41, Stalin already said that we now have no superiority over Germany either in population size or in industrial resources ... Even during the battle for Moscow, before the offensive, he said: “Take care of the people, We have too few of them .. "And about poor nutrition: there is in the memoirs a tankman's recollection of poor nutrition in training, but a new commander came - a Latvian by nationality and on the table there was porridge filled with butter, tea with sugar. It seems that Batov's wife herself monitored the quality of the soldiers' food, went to the kitchens in civilian dress and took a sample instead of stanzines. So there, throughout the war, porridge with meat was served to soldiers. Only it was a common-law wife and not PPZH.
  16. KamikadZzzE1959
    +12
    2 February 2013 14: 36
    When I watched "SHTRAFBAT", and especially the credits at the very end of the film, I got the impression that the entire Red Army went to the penalty boxes and only thanks to them won the war. This film cannot be called anything but an ideological sabotage
    There were also disciplinary battalions in modern SA. Soldiers, conscripts were serving disciplinary punishment there, and this term (God forbid, up to three years) was not counted as a term of service. After disbat, the remaining term had to be served. Like now, I don’t know
    1. -2
      2 February 2013 15: 59
      Unfortunately, the disputes were canceled. Even on the lip, only by court order. As a result, watch TV.
      1. +3
        3 February 2013 01: 14
        Who canceled this discrepancy ???? 28 odisb in Mulino and 36 odisb in Kashtak seem to be even more alive than all the living .... See NTV yourself see ???
    2. +2
      5 February 2013 20: 00
      Penalty companies were recruited once, and if, after 3 months of fighting, this is the maximum period for the penalty company, the company remained to exist as a combat unit, where there were more than 50% of the initial composition, then it was renamed the rifle company. If you look from this side, then this huge list of pins. the company says that most of them retained their strength after 3 months of fighting and became rifle, since if most of them had a smaller composition, which means greater losses, they would have been taken to reorganization and replenished with a new contingent, and the part would keep its number, and so on ad infinitum. Str. The company had a staff of 300 people and at least 250, otherwise it was not sent to the front, which means the entire list of pieces. we multiply the mouth by 150, and we get the maximum number of losses. mouth .. MAXIMUM !! According to statistics, a soldier could live on the frot for an average of 3 months, and then either a hospital or ... So how did a piece fight? companies can be judged by these statistics, if the strength after 3 months allowed to rename pcs. company in the rifle. Take a closer look at the Victory Parade, there are officers with orders of Glory, and this is a signal that he was in the penal battalion and a participant in the victory. Glory was given only to the rank and file officers.
      1. +1
        12 May 2013 20: 18
        Thank you, for a long time I could not understand where the captain got the Order of Glory "
        Quote: shasherin_pavel
        Take a closer look at the Victory Parade, there are officers with orders of Glory, and this is a signal that he was in the penal battalion and a participant in the victory. Glory was given only to the rank and file officers.
    3. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      0
      18 May 2013 23: 57
      Why were you? They are still there, for example, in Mulino 80 ODB, my son was serving a sentence there .....
  17. DeerIvanovich
    +3
    2 February 2013 14: 38
    yes it is necessary to drive such anti-patriots to the camps !!! there is nothing to distort history, enough that the West distorts it.
  18. +9
    2 February 2013 14: 54
    Very necessary and useful article.
    It is a pity that the great actors who played in this film did not read this article before agreeing to the shooting.
    As for the director and screenwriter, this is either weak professionalism, or a deliberate lead to the mill of the liberals. In any case, such a film and such a topic should be TRUE and justify such a lie with the arguments of "artistry" - there is meanness and betrayal of the memory of our fathers and grandfathers. IMHO.
    1. +4
      2 February 2013 16: 03
      pay, they will play. Give money and they will make Christ out of you. The oldest professions: talkers and prostitutes
    2. +3
      5 February 2013 20: 03
      The meanest thing is that Krasko starred in "Bastards", was there not enough for vodka?
    3. MrK
      +1
      3 January 2017 19: 19
      Quote: ikrut
      It is a pity that the great actors who played in this film did not read this article before agreeing to the shooting.


      A great actor does not mean a wonderful person. Especially when the loot for shooting before your eyes.
  19. +4
    2 February 2013 14: 55
    Modern films are entirely one diversion, a deliberate distortion of the memory of the people.
    1. +5
      3 February 2013 12: 38
      I have not seen the film, and will not watch. The only thing I wanted to ask was that "military consultants" always wrote in the credits. Were there any consultants in this film? So they would send letters, as well as the authors, all the assessments expressed here.
      1. 0
        3 February 2013 13: 28
        Parsnip did not read, but I condemn ???)))))
        1. +3
          3 February 2013 17: 24
          Quote: mehanik27
          Parsnip did not read, but condemn?

          Did I say condemn? I asked a question about consultants. But I don’t look, because for "some time now" I generally do not accept Mikhalkov's activities for his servility and boasting of noble roots. Many have them, only this behavior shows a real involvement in the nobility in the best sense of the word, and someone is covering up their Kholui insides.
          1. 0
            3 February 2013 19: 18
            I'm ashamed to ask, and where does Migalkov and "Penal Battalion" have to do with it ???
      2. Kubanets
        +6
        3 February 2013 15: 13
        Dear Fidget. Only a Strong State could have had military consultants. Now look at the credits, the producer has a new word and he decides everything based on the size of his wallet.
  20. black_eagle
    +5
    2 February 2013 16: 18
    Hmm ... at the beginning of the film it would not hurt to add a fairy tale film "Penal Battalion" I'm still sure that there was far from sugar, as the author described, but there was certainly no such moronism as in the film, but there were detachments, yes, there was a shortage of weapons and food, but as elsewhere, they atoned for their guilt with blood, and it was not the zone where they lived, so to speak, according to concepts ... the film is nothing more than a cheap pursuit of a sensation
  21. -1
    2 February 2013 16: 37
    everything became clear to me, thanks
  22. AlexMH
    +10
    2 February 2013 16: 44
    Actually, the only film about the war, shot over the past 20 years, which can be watched without laughing and / or swearing at the authors is "Brest Fortress". But Belarusians filmed her ..
    1. +1
      2 February 2013 19: 29
      AlexMHand STAR?
      1. +2
        9 February 2013 05: 46
        "Star" remake of the Soviet film of the same name. And a decent remake.
    2. -2
      2 February 2013 21: 20
      Excuse me, that film was shot NOT by Belarusians, but by Ugolnikov ... And this is well known to everyone ... well, kind of softer ... And I don't share your opinion about the artistic merits of the film ... A lot of bloody meat, death, blood, and idea? Meaning? That's what it is - it seems that everything looks right and died and resisted blood and death, BUT why the meaning of the film is absolutely not clear to me. Just like the truth, the nonsense of a corrupt journalist who has demonstrated that I want to screw it up, I want to glorify it. That's all. And such "masters" in PRINCIPLE should not even have the right to touch upon such saints for all of us ... My opinion about the film you mentioned does not claim to be true, but I am convinced of it ...
    3. Gren9
      +3
      3 February 2013 06: 21
      I also liked the Dnieper border, a good film.
      1. Kubanets
        +3
        3 February 2013 15: 17
        I agree. Against the backdrop of future victories, the role of General Romanov at the Mogilev border is little known. Thanks to Belarusian friends
    4. alkach555
      0
      3 February 2013 22: 58
      And I like "Dot", it seems not a fantasy
    5. +3
      5 February 2013 20: 08
      The Belarusians are good fellows, they made up the BMP so that I couldn’t believe my eyes, where did so many real German tanks from the film studio come from? Only the second time did the BMP know. and then we have IS - 3 at Prokhorovka "fighting" and T-64 at Stalingrad.
  23. 0
    2 February 2013 19: 08
    interesting, thanks +
  24. 0
    2 February 2013 20: 44
    The article caused a mixed reaction.
    In fact.
    Any feature film is a fictional work of art.
    "Penalty battalion" is the same. Fictional !!!! For the dull and illiterate I repeat - Fictional !!!! In this case, showing the hardships of war, the clash of human characters, etc. Literate can find and read a review of this TV series. There is no need to look for coincidences or contradictions with reality, this is an ARTISTIC work. It starred great Russian actors:
    A. Serebryakov
    Yu. Stepanov
    R. Madyanov
    P. Derevyanko
    A. Bashirov
    L. Borisov
    D.Nazarov
    A. Smolyakov
    K. Pletnev and many, many others.
    Does anyone have a claim to their work !?
    In the commentary I see attacks on the director N.N. Dostal and screenwriter E. Volodarsky I can not say anything about Dostal - his work is not close to me. All his works are on his conscience. But to complain about the screenwriter Volodarsky .... It’s not at any gate ... I even started writing this comment just because of him. Volodarsky is -
    Check on the road.
    One among strangers, one among strangers.
    Demidovs.
    My friend Ivan Lapshin.
    Moonsund.
    Bayazet.
    The last battle of Major Pugachev.
    And many, many other films that make up the glory of Soviet and Russian cinema.
    Do you seriously think that the person who wrote "Check on the roads" knows nothing and does not understand anything about the war or about the people of war !!! ??? And "At home among strangers" !!! ??? This can only be written by a great artist !!!
    And "The Last Battle of Major Pugachev" is a work of rare drama and description of the Russian character, in the struggle for the life and greatness of a Man with a capital letter.
    In my opinion, one does not need a work of art that has come out of the pen of a great author to look into a magnifying glass and look for inconsistencies with reality. And to insult anyone ... It does not honor anyone ...
    1. +5
      3 February 2013 06: 12
      "My friend Ivan Lapshin" - the story of Yuri German. "Checking on the roads" - based on the story of Yuri German "Operation Happy New Year". "Bayazet" and "Moonzund" are novels by Valentin Pikul.
      1. +6
        3 February 2013 09: 52
        So much the worse for Volodarsky ..
        that after really creative work -
        .... seduced by grandmas !!!
        Crossed out himself.
        ..
        ..
        Nevertheless, I put this plus.
        Opinion - there is an opinion. Honest opinion is honest.
        But, the film "At home among ...." - the purest water Western.
        and in terms of artistic discoveries - .....
        1. +4
          4 February 2013 12: 43
          IGAR
          Thank you for your support and understanding.
          Volodarsky may have been seduced by grandmothers, but insulting an elderly, dignified, honored person is the lot of narrow-minded people.

          I will answer the critics: What do you think that I did not understand that there would be a bunch of minuses !?
          But no one wrote anything intelligible about the work of Volodarsky, the actors in the film! Why? Insulting, sputtering and tearing underwear on yourself is easy! Putting cons - even easier - let the arrow down, clicked on the button - and you're done! But to speak competently, reasonably, to show the inconsistency of the creative approach, the defects of the actors' play, to evaluate the artistic merits of the work - this is a must think!
          1. 0
            4 February 2013 14: 59
            Quote: Very smart
            But no one wrote anything intelligible about the work of Volodarsky, the actors in the film!
            So we are not on the artistic council: we are not discussing the skills of actors and directors. Let us instead of the monument to the Soldier-Liberator in Treptower Park in Berlin put a masterpiece of art, depicting, for example, not Hitler, but Manstein or Guderian, or a German Wehrmacht soldier, because they also shed their blood ... You are not from the subject of discussion take me away. Slander and falsehood - it is also performed by the master - slander and falsehood!
            1. +1
              5 February 2013 20: 32
              Well done "Strategy"! I recalled Manstein. And then some are already trying to show him as a peacekeeper, after all, he reached here and did not step further, even did not give a damn about Hitler .. Only Manstein did not stop, but the Finnish soldiers did not go further because of too great losses on their part. Even when Manstein began to shoot those who refused to advance, they did not go forward. Apparently they decided that they would not shoot everyone, but certain death would come. Why did good relations develop with the Finans immediately after the surrender, I mean the soldiers of the Red Army and the citizens of Finland. But I must say right away that the Finnish concentration camps were worse in cruelty than the German ones. But the Finns were not like the Poles, when our officers did not go out into the streets without weapons after the surrender of Germany.
              1. +2
                5 February 2013 21: 39
                And you do not accidentally confuse Mannerheim with Manstein ??? Who, that is, Mannerheim, at one time, said: "I assumed the duties of commander-in-chief on the condition that we do not undertake an offensive on Leningrad." Only he was not at all a peacemaker, on Fuck the Finns needed Leningrad, they were interested in Karelia. At the same time, it was the Finnish troops who provided the establishment of the blockade of Leningrad from the north.
          2. +1
            5 February 2013 20: 52
            You need defects: 1 during dialogs, even in the trenches, there are no extraneous sounds, so, the captain spoke and the Germans did not shoot, s-uu-uuuuvuyu dialogues.
            2. The form, if torn, but clean, as if the actors are afraid to get dirty.
            3. The game of most actors resembles performances, a pure stage production.
            4. That the general would consult with the captain !!! This is how Zhukov was forced to write that he called on Malaya Zemlya and asked about Brezhny’s opinion.
            5. Judging by the film in the Red Army after the captain major, then major general, And the major general sits in a dugout with a major-chief of staff - apparently the army.
            For your information, most of the NKGB operatives were written off temporarily or permanently from military service.
            More terrible than the NKGB were the leitents of the Pirkentons, the rear. Remember the episode played by Tabakov in "The Living and the Dead", when he was told that the case was a private and they did not go out for such trifles, and they advised him to feed Simonov and let him go. The same episode was in his trilogy "Day by Day",
            where he posted all his diaries. When I wanted to reread it, I came to the library and asked for a book, but they tell me that there is no such book in the funds, I open my form to her and show it, I read it with you 2 months ago. And she lowers her eyes and says "Now no".
          3. Swift
            0
            24 May 2013 03: 52
            You’ll excuse me, but imagine that a certain brilliant director will shoot a film brilliant in artistic value with brilliantly played actors about ma ... sorry, let there be a close relative of a certain Shipko clever, and in all seriousness will show her a prostitute, a thief, a serial killer. Do you have the patience to discuss this brilliant creation for a long time?
      2. Kubanets
        0
        3 February 2013 18: 28
        I do not mind. But why does EV write based on works? This is the spectrum for the gag.
      3. +1
        4 February 2013 12: 32
        PETA73
        Buddy, since writing scripts is so easy - get busy! And you will earn money! Just start with "Kolobok".
        But Pikul and German, while they were alive, did not undertake to write scripts for their works. Apparently, this is another type of creative activity. And not everyone can - you need a special vision of the picture flowing from the text. This is being taught separately and for a long time. And not everyone succeeds.
        I wrote about the films "Bayazet" and others, and not about literary works. Cinema is a different kind of creativity.
        1. 0
          5 February 2013 20: 34
          Cinema is the most important thing for us from the arts of political propaganda. IN AND. Lenin.
    2. Moritz
      +2
      3 February 2013 11: 54
      Quote: Very smart
      Do you seriously think that the person who wrote "Check on the roads" knows nothing and does not understand anything about the war or about the people of war !!! ??? And "At home among strangers" !!! ??? This can only be written by a great artist !!!

      therefore, demand is stricter, hiding behind past achievements, it is not necessary to drive an open blizzard that claims to reliability. Moreover, the theme of the Second World War is not a place for fiction and fantasy.
    3. ViPChe
      +1
      3 February 2013 12: 19
      Demand generates supply In market conditions, and "there is a hole in the old woman." Ordered, paid, approved, let out for rent - here's your bread and butter on the table. And questions of morality and, especially, ideology in our time excite .... well, we are discussing, front-line soldiers ... And "business" - grandmother, lave and EVERYTHING!
    4. +2
      3 February 2013 12: 41
      Quote: Very smart
      Any feature film is a fictional work of art.

      Sometimes in the credits they write "not a single animal died during the shooting." In this case, in films like the one under discussion. you also need to write "a feature film, has nothing to do with reality" belay
    5. +1
      3 February 2013 14: 29
      Quote: Very smart
      And "The Last Battle of Major Pugachev" is a work of rare drama and description of the Russian character, in the struggle for the life and greatness of a Man with a capital letter.
      In my opinion, you do not need a work of art that has come out from under pen of the great author consider in a magnifying glass and look for inconsistencies with reality. And to insult anyone ...
      One drawback of the "great" - there is no film about Hitler the Liberator. Tell me, please - with spiritual trepidation we are waiting for the next opus (money will be transferred from the State Department).
      1. Kubanets
        +1
        3 February 2013 18: 11
        Do you believe in this tale from Shalamov? Where to fly?
    6. Kubanets
      +4
      3 February 2013 15: 28
      I will answer Shibko Clever. Yes, I knew him as a good screenwriter in the USSR. All the scenarios you mentioned for box office films are proof of that. But why when the wind of political changes blew this gentleman-comrade, by the way, the laureate three times began to blow into another tune.
    7. Oberon
      0
      3 February 2013 20: 22
      I can’t put my minus in the rating yet, I recently registered.
      but here I put you fat and fat MINUSTER
      1. Kubanets
        0
        4 February 2013 11: 20
        I accept as not a desire to discuss
    8. +4
      5 February 2013 20: 20
      Well ... "Major Pugachev's last fight" is the same moronism, I can't use another word, Major Pugachev, who surrendered and fought in the Vlasov Army, makes an escape in the camp, kills the guard soldiers, opens the gates and from the camp, numbering 400 people, not one joined the Vlasovites and the murderers with whom he fled. During the capture, they kill 2 more soldiers V.V. and after the cartridges have run out, they surrender and spend their time and plus for the escape. And this film is put next to "Moodzundom! If someone does not know how to read, then once again I draw attention to Major Pugachev not a single prisoner of the camp joined, but the soldiers of the guards were bandaged and themselves informed about the escape. I just do not have enough words ..." the rules prohibit saying everything I think about the film and about ...
    9. 0
      5 February 2013 21: 52
      Very smart!
      To my great regret, and apparently, to your great joy, young man, gain more knowledge, learn and calm down.
    10. MrK
      0
      3 January 2017 19: 26
      Quote: Very smart
      And "The Last Battle of Major Pugachev" is a work of rare drama and description of the Russian character, in the struggle for the life and greatness of a Man with a capital letter.


      The plot for the story “The Last Battle of Major Pugachev” to Varlam Shalamov was served by the events of 1948 of the year.
      From the mine camp to them. M. Gorky fled Bandera, led by Tonkonogovym, a thief and a policeman. Caught and shot in justice for his crimes. Among the military fugitives, there were only two: Private Khudenko and Lieutenant Soldatov, who surrendered himself, and in 1957 was released from the camps.
      “On the night of July 26 1948 a group of convicts: Tonkonogov I.N., Khudenko V.M., Putz F.S., Goy I.F., Demyanjuk D.V., Klyuk D.A., Yantsevich M U., Berezhnitsky O. N., Sava M. M., Igoshin A. F., Soldatov N. A. and Marinin S. V., made a group attack on the armed guard of the lag. paragraph No. 3 OLP N. At-Uryakh and killed: Art. Overseer Vasiliev, Rogov’s platoon officer, Peregudov’s duty officer, tied up Peregudov’s wife Sirotkin, guide dog Gryzunkina, taking 7 machine guns, 1 machine gun, rifles, revolvers, cartridges over 1000 pieces and disappeared. ”
      Compare what I wrote with the plot of the movie you care about.
  25. +1
    2 February 2013 22: 37
    Soviet films about the war are the best. What is being filmed now you can not watch at all. The only exception is the documentary series "The Great War".
    1. Kubanets
      0
      3 February 2013 18: 17
      My friend, let me call you that. Soviet film shots were carried out in the field and now the graphics
  26. +8
    2 February 2013 22: 41
    I didn't watch the film "Penal Battalion". As soon as I saw that volunteers from criminals were being recruited to the penal battalion, the desire to watch this "fantasy" immediately disappeared. The fact is that back in the early 90s in the Literaturnaya Gazeta there was an article for a whole spread with orders, lists and numbers of all penal battalions and penal battalions on all fronts. The article described in detail what these parts were, why they appeared, who and how they got into them. So excuses like;
    Quote: Goldmitro
    The problem is that for many years many topics, incl. such as penal battalions were, one might say, "banned."
    Или:
    Quote: Very smart
    Any feature film is a fictional work of art.

    I think it is not appropriate. Those who were interested knew everything perfectly. And the fiction that the author is entitled to is not an excuse for lies and forgery.
    1. wax
      +1
      3 February 2013 15: 26
      E. Volodarsky was also noted for his dishonesty in relation to Vysokoy and M Vladi in the story of Vysotsky's dacha on his (Volodarsky) site. He died, as he is now explaining to Vysotsky.
  27. +2
    2 February 2013 23: 28
    YES THE PENALTY WAS THEIR KIND BY SWAT. WELL-TRAINED OFFICERS, SOLDIERS, PERFECTLY WEAPONED, THEREFORE THEY WERE AFRAID OF THE PLAGES. THEIR BEDS ARE DRINKED CERTAINLY OF THE GERMANS BUT AND WAS SPILLING NONSOME OF THEIRS. A ARTICLE YES CORRECT.
    1. +2
      3 February 2013 00: 34
      Well, I wouldn’t say that they were special forces in the modern concept of the word ... but they were always at the forefront of the otaki, and they would rise in the attack on machine guns ... it’s worth the road! HOW ONE VETERAN SAID ... BE HE WILL FOR EVERY ATTACK HAS ORDERED!
    2. 0
      3 February 2013 14: 36
      Quote: Zubr
      YES THE PENALTY WAS THEIR KIND BY SWAT. WELL TRAINED OFFICERS, SOLDIERS, PERFECTLY WEAPONED, THEREFORE THEY WERE AFRAID OF THE PLAGES. THEIR BEDS ARE DRINKED CERTAINLY OF THE GERMANS BUT AND WAS SPILLING NONSOME OF THEIRS.
      Yes, yes, the penal battalion is cool (like a prison). Criminals are super fighters and heroes. And the usual army and some kind of "guard" - solid sucks. Glory to the Urks - the saviors of Russia!
    3. Kubanets
      0
      3 February 2013 18: 02
      And for what minus It's true
    4. +1
      5 February 2013 21: 01
      As for the shedding of the roof: Commander of the 8th O.SH.B. wrote in his memoirs, when they recaptured the Germans' height, the commander of a rifle battalion, numbering 600 people, envied him. A bat of 200 people, in which there was even a colonel subordinate to the lieutenant. They didn’t even have to command them, since there wasn’t a front-line lieutenant below, everyone, without a command, knew what to do in battle.
      1. +1
        5 February 2013 21: 37
        And most importantly, it was a way of redemption and the return of their comrades into operation. Well, and the restoration of office and rank, the return of awards, avoiding shame for the family.
  28. Larus
    +8
    3 February 2013 03: 03
    Nowadays, all military-themed films are replete with cliches with mythical detachments that shoot everyone, drunk commanders and political officers, who send dissatisfied soldiers to machine guns, all who have left the encirclement, or from captivity are sent to the Gulag and others in the same vein. I read in one book from the author, they started a conversation in a dugout about a future life, so young people began to dream, and an older one said that after the war he would pop up all the cowardly shit in the posts, dig in there and start to muddle. After all, many patriots in the trenches, but in the fields
    1. +1
      3 February 2013 12: 43
      Quote: Larus
      Indeed, many patriots in the trenches, but remain in the fields

      The true truth! +++++++++!
      1. -1
        3 February 2013 14: 40
        Quote: Egoza
        Quote: Larus
        Indeed, many patriots in the trenches, but remain in the fields

        The true truth! +++++++++!

        The rest survived by cowardice and lack of patriotism?
        1. wax
          +2
          3 February 2013 15: 49
          Pushkar, do not distort. And in peacetime it is known that it is emerging. You can see the example of recent history of Russia.
          1. 0
            4 February 2013 00: 01
            Quote: Wax
            Pushkar, do not distort. And in peacetime it is known that it is emerging. You can see the example of recent history of Russia.
            My grandfather survived. After three wars. The civilian was a little hurt by infancy, and the Finnish and World War II were broken off day by day. Captain of aviation, order, severely wounded in Finnish. You keep veterans for shit? Is your surname Podrabinek?
            1. Larus
              +1
              4 February 2013 01: 08
              Indeed, many patriots in the trenches, but remain in the fields
              Read carefully. And your grandfather honor and praise
              1. 0
                5 February 2013 00: 13
                Quote: Larus
                Indeed, many patriots in the trenches, but remain in the fields
                And this is not about veterans? "And in peacetime it is known that it pops up"."after the war pops up all the cowardly shit"
  29. +1
    3 February 2013 12: 26
    I suggest that the site moderators organize a subscription with an appeal to the country's leadership about the withdrawal from the box office and the prohibition of showing the film "Penal Battalion", with the filmmakers being prosecuted for libel!
    1. 0
      3 February 2013 12: 52
      Also send a letter on behalf of the site to the creators of the film and the actors who played the roles in this "film" with an expression of contempt for these "cultural workers". Regarding the "fiction": this excuse will not work - a film about the REALLY past GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR, the uniform is REALLY SOVIET, the enemy is REAL too. Let them fantasize in the "world of the simpsons" and create "harry potters". To erase from the history of Russian culture "Penal Battalion" and similar falsifications such as "Liquidation" - that would be the best gift for Victory Day. I draw your attention - erase FILMS, not MEMORY!
      1. +1
        5 February 2013 21: 06
        And the last battle of Pugachev, and Bastards.
  30. Vladimir MCHPV
    +1
    3 February 2013 13: 01
    Films shot during the Soviet era on the theme of the Second World War are better than modern ones ....................
  31. Edgar
    -5
    3 February 2013 13: 22
    hard movie. It looks hard. as in any work of fiction, fiction is undoubtedly present. but it seems to me that the truth in it is still more than fiction.
    1. 0
      3 February 2013 14: 24
      What is the truth and what is the meaning of the truth?
    2. 0
      3 February 2013 14: 42
      Quote: Edgar
      but I think
      It is necessary to be baptized in this case.
      1. Edgar
        0
        3 February 2013 15: 49
        Thanks for the advice Pushkar. but i'm just from church
        1. 0
          3 February 2013 23: 56
          Quote: Edgar
          Thanks for the advice Pushkar. but i'm just from church

          Satanic?
  32. kin
    +2
    3 February 2013 13: 24
    And the decree "On amnesty in connection with the Victory of the Soviet people over Nazi Germany in the Great Patriotic War," removed the conviction from the penalty box, who had not served their sentences by that time, did not atone for their guilt with blood.
  33. +3
    3 February 2013 13: 52
    Quote: Vladimir MCHPV
    Films shot during the Soviet era on the theme of the Second World War are better than modern ones ....................

    All this cinematic yat together with Mikhalkin (please do not confuse it with the marshal of artillery), to please the crap, is so eager to bend over and moan the Soviet power that one is even surprised. What they have created, in the opinion of "A lot of clever" masterpieces is a complete anti-historical shit. I knew very well the story of my father-in-law who fought in a penal company as a platoon commander, then a company, an ordinary lieutenant after graduating from the Ordzhonikidzen infantry school for 6 months and was wounded during a fight by a jumping mine in 1944.
    There were no detachment barriers then, and the fines were given full-time weapons before the fight, a helmet with an apron on their stomach on their heads and body
  34. +1
    3 February 2013 13: 54
    I think the film "Penal Battalion" is excellent! I disagree with the author of the article on some positions - you cannot sum everything up with one size fits all. Perhaps such a case, described in the film, took place. Plus, you need to add a bit of mandatory director's fiction - as without it. And the truth is shown in the film or not - it's like saying there was or is hazing in the army ... Everything is relative.
    1. MrK
      0
      3 January 2017 19: 39
      Quote: Voodoo
      Plus, you need to add a piece of mandatory directorial fiction - as without it. But the truth is shown in the film or not - it’s the same as to say there was or has been hazing in the army ... Everything is relative.


      Here is a review by Alexander Minkin on the movie "Shtrafbat" from the "Novaya Gazeta" titled “Sentenced to a feat, or All of Russia - penal battalion”: “One of the captives escaped, another joke told, the third got scared, the fourth sent the wrong letter, and the fifth was released from the camp - temporarily, so as to wash away the“ shame ”with blood. They have enemies in front and behind, they are surrounded by death. Sentenced to a feat ... They are closely watched by the NKVD detachment - the Soviet power is at the ready with a machine gun "..." I had to create detachments to shoot at my own in case of retreat. "
      I think the title here is more important than the text. It is important to call Russia a prison. And, clinging to this ancient thesis to pile up anyway what kind of "evidence". Or is there a little directorial fiction here too?
      1. MrK
        0
        3 January 2017 19: 47
        [quote Voodoo] Plus, you need to add a piece of mandatory directorial fiction [/ quote]

        Super-positive hero Serebryakova in the penal battalion straight from the 1941-th (although the penal-bats again - appeared in the second half of the 1942-th).
        Criminal scum fights mixed with honest, innocently convicted officers (in fact, they didn’t mix, former prisoners could only get into the penal companies, and then after a year of camp).
        Penalty commander (only staff officers were commanders - and the best, they were sent there with an increase in rank and maintenance).
        Life term in penal battalion (in reality - three months maximum, either until the first injury, or until the first battle distinction).
        Penalties sent to reconnaissance - for the front line. Did not have. The battalion could not fulfill the functions of divisional intelligence.
        In intelligence, soldiers finish off their wounded ... Well, this is just a direct insult to the front-line soldiers.
        Constant political "conversations" in the dugouts and barracks ... This is not a smoking room in VGIK 70's! There was no such thing in those years, and it could not be.
        Finally, there was simply no “Jewish theme” at the front. We were Germans too, the national question was a matter of calmer and, in some ways, more stupid times.
        In general, a set of black myths that the authors could easily avoid if they showed at least minimal curiosity. But they didn’t. And it’s no coincidence for in one "Shtrafbat" - the film is really innovative. Innovative in that in it ignorance does not come from the laziness of the creators, but from the principle.
  35. +1
    3 February 2013 15: 39
    Everlasting memory.
  36. +2
    3 February 2013 15: 41
    Here's another comparison, "Wounded" - "Bastards". Why are they not held accountable for slandering the history of the Motherland ?!
    1. Edgar
      +1
      3 February 2013 15: 56
      so bring them to court! what is in the way? on this site there are enough people who will support this initiative, and not only on the site. and you can make a film that tells your truth and exposes the one that you consider fake and false! collect money by subscribing on the Internet and act! so more than one film was shot, and even the series.
  37. Georges14
    +2
    3 February 2013 18: 19
    As long as there are calls - to bring the detractors of history to the law, to ban films - nothing will change. Have you ever thought about the fact that numerous "historians" are not very eager to show the "truth" about Muslim shrines, and very often they enlighten dense Russia. Because they know - in the first case there will be an adequate answer, and in the second - a plaintive bleating in the virtual space ...
  38. +4
    3 February 2013 21: 41
    Yes, recently we have absolutely forgotten how to make films about the war. I'm not even talking about the historical veracity of the films, although this is extremely important for the younger generation, and as a tribute to the fallen in this war. Modern films about the war are completely saturated with Hollywood cliches, they are trying to shoot an action, but it turns out a miserable semblance of something incomprehensible. And for this reason it is much more pleasant to watch films of past years and not only about the war. And all by the fact that then no one was chasing the dough.

    I would like to express my gratitude to Evgeny Bazhenov. It is very pleasant that there are young people who know and are interested in history, and who are not indifferent to what they are "fed" by modern "creators" from cinema.
  39. svit55
    +4
    4 February 2013 00: 31
    I got a little book, I don’t remember the author - threw it out, writes about the penalty squadrons !!!! in the battles for the Kuban. Well, they fought well, that the combatants constantly turned to them for help, and those shot down did not protect them.
    Nonsense, and after the "night swallows" I would not be surprised if they shoot about air penalties.
    1. DmitriRazumov
      0
      4 February 2013 15: 46
      I personally know a man whose father, just in the Kuban, fought in the penalty squadron. The story is this: the Germans on the move captured our airfield with a tank strike. The pilots, who managed, plunged into a lorry and fled. Then they were all assigned to the penal battalion. Fighters, regardless of rank and regalia. they were temporarily deprived, transplanted to U-2 with machine guns like Maxim. The task was to patrol the sky. The Germans flew on Messers. Of course, the penalties were only waiting for death, because there was no chance to get out of the battle with the Messer on U-2 .. In one of these flights, he saw an approaching enemy fighter. Anti-aircraft gunners opened fire, Messerschmitt smoked and left. After landing, the commander of the penal battalion congratulated the pilot on his victory, the anti-aircraft gunners, apparently knowing the fate of the penalties, called the CP and said that our pilot also participated in the battle effectively. The rank and all awards were returned to the pilot, except for the Order of Lenin. Further awarded all the time a notch. For example, for the downed Messer they usually gave the Order of the Red Banner, and he was presented to the Red Star, etc.
      1. +1
        4 February 2013 18: 59
        Is there any documentary evidence of this fact? On the basis of what order was the "penalty squadron" created, its staff and status, how was it sent to it? Or also fiction - the pilots fled from the airfield, and the commander of the air division or corps, due to the lack of aircraft, decided to "punish" them like that ...
        1. DmitriRazumov
          +1
          4 February 2013 19: 26
          I think that the commander of a division or corps would not be able to punish so. They simply have no rights to deprive their military ranks and orders. This story was heard from a respected man, a former unit commander and reserve colonel. He had no reason to lie and earn cheap credibility.

          Quote: Strategia
          Is there any documentary evidence of this fact? On the basis of what order was the "penalty squadron" created, its staff and status, how was it sent to it?

          "Penalty air squadron
          It was supposed to create penalized squadrons according to the Higher Military Command Directive No. 170549, for pilots who showed sabotage, cowardice and selfishness.
          The reasons for getting into the penalty squadron are the same, and only the number and results of combat sorties allowed to return to the unit [5] [6].
          However, they did not receive distribution. NGO Directive No. 0685, prescribed to send offending pilots to the infantry.
          The “Secret” stamp was removed from the documents on penalty squadrons and penalty box cases only in 2004 [5]. "
          1. +1
            5 February 2013 00: 27
            Normal directive. In your opinion that, explanatory work was needed among the pilots. Here was an order from an NGO.
            Order
            People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR
            No. 0685 of September 9, 1942
            on establishing the concept of sorties for fighter jets
            ________________________________________

            SECRET
            ORDER
            PEOPLE'S COMMISSIONER OF THE USSR DEFENSE
            № 0685
            September 9, 1942 mountains. Moscow
            Contents: On the establishment of the concept of combat sorties for fighters
            The facts on the Kalinin, Western, Stalingrad, Southeast and other fronts established that our fighter aircraft, as a rule, work poorly and often do not fulfill their combat missions.
            Our fighters not only do not engage in battle with enemy fighters, but avoid attacking bombers.
            In carrying out the task of covering attack aircraft and bombers, our fighters even with a quantitative superiority over enemy fighters evade battle, go on the sidelines and allow our attack aircraft and bombers to be shot down with impunity.
            By order of the NCO No. 0299, cash rewards and government awards for combat missions with a combat mission are provided for flight crews as an incentive. This order in the air units is perverted on the fronts.
            Any flight on the battlefield is incorrectly considered a combat mission, regardless of whether or not the fighters assigned the combat mission assigned to them.
            Such a misconception about combat sorties does not educate our fighters in the spirit of an active attack on enemy aircraft and allows individual dodgers and cowards to receive monetary rewards and government awards along with honest and brave pilots.
            In order to eliminate such injustice and in order to encourage only honest pilots, and dodgers and cowards to identify, expel from the ranks of our fighters and punish them, I order:
            1. To consider a combat mission for fighter aircraft only such a flight in which the fighter aircraft had a meeting with the air enemy and fought with him, and when completing the task of covering attack aircraft and bombers, to consider a military combat mission for fighter aircraft only such a flight in which attack aircraft and bombers, when performing a combat mission, did not have losses from attacks by enemy fighters.
            2. Only those enemy planes that are confirmed by a photograph or ground surveillance report shall be counted by pilots shot down by pilots.
            3. From now on, payments for combat sorties and representations to the government award shall be strictly guided by paragraphs 1 and 2 of this order.
            4. Fighter pilots evading combat with an air opponent, put on trial and transfer to penal units in the infantry.
            5. An order to declare to all fighters against receipt.

            People's Commissar of Defense
            I. STALIN
            1. DmitriRazumov
              +1
              5 February 2013 10: 35
              Dear Strategia, at first you doubted that the squadrons existed and required documentary evidence:
              Quote: Strategia
              Is there any documentary evidence of this fact? On the basis of which order was created "penalty squadron",

              I brought you the documents:
              It was supposed to create penalized squadrons according to the Higher Military Command Directive No. 170549, for pilots who showed sabotage, cowardice and selfishness.

              Next, you take the link from my post to order No. 0685, Kotor. and start explaining to me, taking the topic aside. This order was issued several months later than Order 170549. During these months, penal squadrons existed. After that, they were canceled and the guilty pilots were sent to the penal battalions (to the infantry), which is discussed in the directive 0685.
              Therefore, I ask you not to waste time on further controversy. Penalty squadrons existed from August 1942 (Order 170549) to September 1942 (Order No. 0685), although for a short time.
      2. +1
        5 February 2013 21: 18
        The "K.Z" statute states that the order is given for an aircraft shot down by small arms. Maxims were not installed on the U - 2, even with homemade products, there was an aviation Dektyaryov, with a bag for the spent cartridges, the U-2 was constantly in short supply, since they were needed in huge quantities in schools and at the front, so your participant in the war, no one would not expose people and airplanes to such attacks. For the loss, U 2 was asked more than for other aircraft. The pilots write this, since they were real workers of the war who could do their job in any weather. The lack of the U-2 led to the fact that after night bombings the pilots still did work in our rear and in 42-43 sometimes slept 2- 3 hours a day.
  40. +4
    4 February 2013 00: 36
    This penal battalion, in the sense of the film, wins and touches the suckers, due to the acting, then, in contradiction to Stanislavsky, "I believe, even though it's not true." The fact that they want to destroy it is understandable, it is not clear how these actors put their talent into a deliberate lie. The same Menshov, refused to present the "Bastards" with a prize or a prize there, because he did not find it possible to support slander against his country. Well, comrade Stalin is a big plus for penal battalions, for a person is weak, especially a drunk, and here you can rehabilitate yourself, you can't force anyone to fight under a stick, and people argued that they stumbled, are ready to redeem and no blocking detachments will be able to keep a unit superior in numbers and weapons. Yes, anyone will be blocked, swept away in 5 minutes, and if this detachment is stronger than those whom it is blocking, then it is more rational to change their places, well, in order to win the battle.
  41. Forester
    0
    4 February 2013 00: 42
    Too many categorical NOT. And what about the book by Vladimir Karpov "Take it alive!" (1974)? There, too, an officer was sent to the penal company for a fight with another officer, the penal service is in the village, in the company, and the prisoners and the political ones. And Karpov was a penalty box himself!
    1. +1
      4 February 2013 15: 04
      Interest Ask! But he is to Karpov ...
    2. +1
      5 February 2013 21: 29
      After many years of war, many scouts had 5-6 languages. And here it’s 90. It’s like Fedorov’s fighter had 26 in his personal account and 46 in the group account, and now it’s already 130, supposedly for Korea, but only Assam V.O. was forbidden by a special directive. B. participate in battles, as their photographs in the press were illuminated. They flew only ... they flew, I repeat, but did not participate or command, whose pilots did not appear in the press.
  42. +3
    4 February 2013 01: 35
    Film Shtrafbat lies and slander on the Red Army
  43. +2
    4 February 2013 01: 44
    This film contains the memories of a penal battalion officer Alexander Pyltsyn, who fought in it for a whole year and a half! Cycle "My Great War". Written and directed by Andrey Zaitsev.


    1. 0
      4 February 2013 15: 09
      So, after all, he did NOT get into a penal battalion. Which once again confirms the lie that penal battalions commanded the penal battalions.
  44. Cat
    +3
    4 February 2013 03: 53
    I can’t understand why there is so much noise around this, culturally speaking, shydevra?
    Well, a movie, well, about the war, well, think. Okay - widely publicized movie. And nothing more.

    A couple of years ago, the media widely advertised one of similar masterpieces, if I am not mistaken - Burnt by the Sun. The advertising text sounded something like this: "Outstanding blah blah blah, the famous blah blah blah, about the exploit of blah blah blah, the heroic fight blah blah blah, the budget of the film - so much million euros.
    Not, well, the amount was added to the words about heroism, patriotism and heroism - this is not so bad. Well, the time is now when everything, including patriotism, is measured in money.
    Another thing finished me off - the film’s budget was voiced in the currency of the country that lost the war. I hope we don’t need to remind that this commercial is not an initiative of some private DJs of some private radio station, it is part of a planned advertising campaign agreed with the filmmakers. The question arises: what could be so patriotic about people who approved such a text? More truly - patriots of which country are they?

    Of course, I did not go to the film. I didn’t buy it on the disk, and I didn’t download it from the Internet. For there is no need.
  45. Lerooy74
    -3
    4 February 2013 06: 49
    Eh ... I read the "critics" ... And I have one conclusion. have you given a SHOW here? Connoisseurs of truth-loving mln. A great movie...!!!! All your heel-to-chest beat would be justified if THIS was a DOCUMENTARY ... !!! What's NOT clear then? If you listen to that 90% of the films should be scrapped. And leave only TRUEly seasoned. Well, the front-line grandfathers were indignant. When unreal facts are seen. But what is the film (TV series) about? Ours won? YES...!!! Is the heroism of our soldiers shown? Yes...!!! Are the horrors of war real? Yes...!!! Will the actors' play suffice with realism? Yes...!!! So what are the screams worth? The film is for MASS viewing, and not for training specialists in the history of the Second World War. Look at things realistically, and do not beat your head in hysterics that the "blooper" noticed. Clever people mlyn ...
    1. +2
      4 February 2013 21: 21
      Lerooy74
      Hi colleague. You and I have been minded by truth-fighters and truth-lovers. Those for whom "Of all the arts are the most important are cinema and circus !!!" V.I. Lenin. And about the actors, fiction, etc. - it's not about them.
  46. +3
    4 February 2013 08: 27
    I think so, "Excuse me, that film was shot NOT by Belarusians, but by Ugolnikov ... And this is well-known ... well, kind of softer ... And I don't share your opinion about the artistic merits of the film ... A lot of bloody meat, death, blood , and the idea? The meaning? "

    The meaning of the "Brest Fortress", as in all films shot by perestroika and their followers, is simple - to show how badly the USSR was ready for war, how people died for nothing, how the fascists and chekists were rotten as true heroes and patriots ...
    Quietly and steadily they filmed a bunch of vile films about the war, in every spit in the history of the USSR and complaints of Svanidze: they say, the people won under mediocre and criminal command. And already another Victory Day is being fouled with new films by authors whose artistic imagination (as Shibko the clever noted) is for some reason very one-sided, in the direction for which they pay. It’s pernicious that in the USA the average layman knows history from Hollywood masterpieces (there is no truth, but there are a lot of pathos), but they will do without them, they remove their historical turbidity (there is no truth either in love for the homeland and its people either).
    1. 0
      4 February 2013 15: 19
      If the USSR was so unprepared for war, then would we have won ?!
  47. -2
    4 February 2013 10: 20
    The article is undoubtedly a plus, but I would like to draw attention to the fact that this film is fiction and not documentary, and the word art implies some fiction and fantasies of scriptwriters and directors, the film is based on historical events, but even the name of the penal battalion can be used as the basis there is fiction, and I do not agree with the author’s conclusion about the misconception by generations about what happened, these representations should not be done on feature films, but at least on documentaries, but it’s better to read materials on this topic.
    1. +3
      4 February 2013 15: 24
      Artistic fiction should not distort, much less muddle the glorious history of his homeland. In addition to the aesthetic side of films, they SHOULD fulfill an EDUCATIONAL role.
    2. DPN
      +1
      4 February 2013 23: 24
      Fifteen-year-olds will not read, in the extreme majority, but will they watch and who will prove to them that this is fiction?
  48. +1
    4 February 2013 11: 08
    I recommend to everyone who has not yet read the book "The Great Fucked War", 2 parts. There is a whole chapter about penal battalions in particular.
  49. DmitriRazumov
    +6
    4 February 2013 13: 42
    In my family, 2 relatives fought in a penal battalion.
    My grandfather's cousin fought in the penal company. I met him repeatedly when he was still alive. He did not have any anger at the command and the Soviet power. He told different things, the infantryman on the front line and the attacks were not easy ... He ended the war in 1945, returned home, like everyone else, as a hero.
    My wife’s grandfather also got into the penal battalion after returning from captivity. His penalty company forced the Dnieper. He was seriously injured, after the hospital he was commissioned and sent home.
    My grandfather fell into captivity for several years spent in the Buchenwald concentration camp. After the liberation by the Americans, he refused offers to move to the USA and American citizenship, like most Soviet prisoners of war, and was transferred by the allies to representatives of the Red Army. Passed verification in a special department. He was not sent to the camps (some of our modern journalists insist that all prisoners of war were subjected to repression). He served in Germany. He returned home in 1946.
    I am immensely grateful to my grandfathers for their feat.
    1. VictorVlad
      -1
      6 February 2013 09: 55
      There was bitterness. Uncle said that they had their weapons taken away early, disarmed early. And only he knew the meaning of what was said. They were disarmed already beyond the Urals, as their penal battalion expressed a desire to finish off the Japanese and, almost in full force, went east by echelons. After the capture of Berlin, the commander of the penal battalion, the captain was promoted to major and appointed commandant of one of the German cities. After a month in the post of commandant, his uncle was catching up with his battalion, which had gone east. Not fought, it turns out, fines. They say that they were ready to remove Stalin ...
  50. borisst64
    0
    4 February 2013 15: 11
    "These camps, if they differed from the German ones, then for the worse ..."

    You need to be a nit by making such a comparison. It turns out better in a German concentration camp than in Siberia?
    1. 0
      4 February 2013 19: 01
      Apparently, someone chose the German: there it was possible to survive, laying down comrades, or to become a guard.
    2. DmitriRazumov
      0
      4 February 2013 19: 48
      Quote: borisst64
      "These camps, if they differed from the German ones, then for the worse ..."

      Grandfather told me about Buchenwald, the death camp. The whole system was built to destroy people. Well, firstly, the Germans built them into a convoy and drove on foot from the Union almost to the camp. Do not feed. Who could not go shot. In the camp, everyone who was exhausted was immediately sent to the oven. The remaining Russians survived only by the fact that they were fed by women from Ukraine, who worked in the food department and got potato peelings and other slops from the sort. They didn’t shoot for it ...
      My grandfather did not know a word of German, but what "JEDEM DAS SEINE" is, a cute biblical dictum meaning "to each his own," he remembered for the rest of his life. He himself cannot understand how he survived. A healthy Siberian man weighed 38 kg in a concentration camp.
      And how many were in the occupied territory of the USSR, the so-called. Stalag-s. These are hastily fenced off areas in a "displaced person" field. They did not even have barracks; people were simply killed by hunger and disease in the open air. So the GULAG is a child's play compared to German camps.
      1. 0
        5 February 2013 00: 37
        Do you have any facts, documents? And then how about the "penalty squadrons" and "innocent" pilots on the "maize" will work. And on what planes were they to be planted when they abandoned theirs at the airfield?
        Actually, it’s illogical: why did Stalin have to destroy labor. If there were such cases, then it is not from the fact that the concept of extermination of people was in the Gulag.
        1. DmitriRazumov
          0
          5 February 2013 11: 19
          Quote: Strategia
          Do you have any facts, documents? And then how about the "penalty squadrons" and "innocent" pilots on the "maize" will work.

          Read the materials of the Nuremberg Trials: "The Nuremberg Trials. In three volumes." The books are devoted to the trial of the main Nazi war criminals in Nuremberg (Germany) November 20, 1945 - October 1, 1946 at the International Military Tribunal with the participation of representatives of the USSR, USA, Great Britain, and other countries of the anti-Hitler coalition.
          Publisher: "Legal Literature" (1965)
          1. +1
            5 February 2013 20: 16
            Sorry, I misunderstood your post. About German concentration camps and stalag in the course ...
  51. -2
    4 February 2013 15: 51
    borisst64,

    Well, you understand that even in conventional troops they did not treat people normally. (the author of the article actually confirmed this with the words: But demining by penal officers and ordinary units took place.

    Why do you think that the concentration camp on the territory of the USSR was better? Do you think they didn’t experiment on them? A?

    Who do you think, for example, mined uranium in mines? These are now freely hired ones, but before they were only prisoners (I won’t lie, I don’t know for sure whether there were penalty prisoners there, but it’s possible)
    1. 0
      4 February 2013 19: 08
      Do not confuse fines with those sentenced to imprisonment. The penalty battalion is an opportunity to atone for one’s guilt, excluding arrest and imprisonment. It is no coincidence that the penal prisoners fought desperately - they had the opportunity to justify themselves, return awards and titles. And being sent to a penal battalion, in case of atonement for guilt in any way (serving a sentence, performing a feat, being wounded, dying) was not considered a criminal record. Therefore, by definition, there could be no fines in any mines. The penalty officer was a penalty officer while he was in the penal unit.
      What is reliable for you about the experiments conducted in the CORRECTIVE LABOR camps of the GULAG?
      1. 0
        5 February 2013 00: 08
        Nothing for us. If you know - documents to the studio.
    2. 0
      5 February 2013 21: 39
      It seems in your mind that uranium is mined in kilograms and people there get sick from radiation? In 41, the country had 46 grams of purified uranium, from which the Kurchatov Institute began its work. If gold ore is considered very rich, if it contains 11 grams of gold per ton, then one gram of uranium is good, and then it still needs to be purified and enriched. Uranium is not found in nuggets.
    3. +1
      8 February 2013 22: 14
      Uranium is not mined in mines, uranium ore is mined, in which there is a small amount of uranium and it is in a bound state, uranium ore itself is not radioactive, the uranium obtained from it is radioactive, teach at least the basics of chemistry and nuclear physics for a start, before you climb with comments. In the USSR, convict labor (LC) was never used in uranium mining; highly qualified people were selected there, had no criminal record, and were checked by the relevant authorities for reliability
  52. Heruvim
    +1
    4 February 2013 18: 36
    The acting is good, the script is great. There’s just one “but” - if the authors had moved the action of the film “penal battalion” somewhere to the Moon or Mars (as their new teachers often do - Made in Hollywood), there wouldn’t have been such a lengthy debate! Fiction should also have its own clear boundaries. And if the guys go back in time, then the nurses should not crawl around the field in miniskirts, etc. and so on.
  53. DPN
    +1
    4 February 2013 22: 28
    It’s all very simple, since the 90s the state leadership wants to erase everything that happened in the USSR, so screenwriters, directors, artists, writers and others. The films Shrafbat and Bastards are shown, and thanks to their heroes, the country won the war.
  54. Vrungel78
    +1
    5 February 2013 11: 20
    I agree with the opinion that the plot of the film is complete nonsense. Volodarsky’s mistake is that he tried to exploit the lack of awareness of penal battalions and penal companies among the majority of the country’s current population. Frankly, I was also captivated by the film with its plot and watched it more than once. But it’s better to watch such films than Hollywood ones, where Rambo shoots down a Russian helicopter with a stone, and you, naturally worried about the fate of the main character, involuntarily rejoice with Rambo at the death of the car and crew. SO WHICH BRAINWASHING METHOD IS MOST ACCEPTABLE FOR YOU?
    1. 0
      5 February 2013 21: 43
      The most interesting thing is that in Vietnam during the war, Viet Cong soldiers enjoyed watching American westerns and also enjoyed shooting down Americans. Rimbaud is filmed like a Western, and the shape of the Vietnamese is distorted, and the place is a jungle.
  55. 0
    5 February 2013 11: 41
    The article is a little suspicious. The author is not indicated, but in the photograph there appears to be a “Guard” badge on his chest. Those. the full name of its unit is “163rd Guards Penal Company”?
  56. +1
    5 February 2013 12: 33
    I remember even Vladimir Menshov refused to present the award to the Bastards at some ceremony and threw the envelope on the floor. Respect
  57. svit55
    0
    5 February 2013 14: 46
    DmitriRazumov, for some reason I can’t answer the post directly. About penal AEs, having the intention and creating squadrons are two big differences, even the order existed for one month. It would probably be logical to create for starters: tank penal battalions, artillery battalions, etc. Moreover, in the given example it is indicated: “send to the infantry.” From personal acquaintances: 1943, an instructor at a flight school did not keep track of a cadet and killed a soldier with a propeller. The instructor received a 3-month penalty. Infantry. After 3 months, he was assigned to a combat regiment, where he had been eager to join since the beginning of the war. In the penal battalion, he was helped to survive by a former infantry regiment commander, the same penal battalion, only with more experience in combat operations.
    1. DmitriRazumov
      0
      5 February 2013 19: 44
      Quote: svit55
      About penal AEs, having the intention and creating squadrons are two big differences, even the order existed for one month.

      I agree that the order did not last long, only 2 months.
      Probably, they still managed to carry out the order, since there are facts of being in penalty cells. Moreover, failure to comply with orders was severely punished at that time.
      Quote: svit55
      From personal acquaintances: 1943, an instructor at a flight school did not keep track of a cadet and killed a soldier with a propeller. The instructor received a 3-month penalty. Infantry. After 3 months, he was assigned to a combat regiment, where he had been eager to join since the beginning of the war.

      I also heard stories about penalty AEs not from books, but from a direct witness, the son of a WWII veteran. I went through the entire war as a fighter and spent a very short time in this squadron (see post above).
      That’s why I took your post very seriously.
    2. DmitriRazumov
      0
      5 February 2013 20: 43
      Here I also found a link, by the way, to the same site about penalty AEs:
      http://topwar.ru/5532-shtrafnye-eskadrili.html.
      1. svit55
        0
        6 February 2013 21: 57
        Thank you. And yet there are more questions than answers, hence the doubts and mistrust. At least the question of formation: let’s say they recruited penalty pilots for the full composition of the air force, but there are not enough mechanic technicians, who are more numerous in number. This means that the combat activity of an ordinary penalty box is provided by an officer, an excellent student of the BPP, and receives comments and scoldings from him for the work of the equipment. Well, etc., etc....
  58. Lerooy74
    +1
    5 February 2013 16: 17
    Hmmm... As I understand, many here simply have delusions of grandeur. So they strive to get smart... What a damn history experts... It’s just fun to read dithers about the fact that - BUT THEY WERE MAKING MOVIES IN THE USSR... But under the Union, the topic of Shtrafbat (fines) was closed altogether? Why are penalty fighters in THOSE films shown as Negative fighters? Even if only in glimpses and hints, the “brilliant directors” portrayed the penalty prisoners as death row prisoners. Wouldn't you say that? Why the hell are you talking about a FICTION film? Its goal is not to document the facts of the Second World War in a DOCUMENTARY and even BELIEVABLE manner, but simply to show how the penal fighters fought. And the very name STRAFBAT is a COLLECTIVE term. Generalizing. No, the title should have clarified that Shtrafrota (about privates and sergeants), and then there will be a film Shtrafbat (purely about officers). Well, what kind of stupidity is it to demand the thorough truth from a feature film? Did ours win? And great...!!! Did the fighters behave like Heroes? Yes...!!! So why suck the negativity out of it?
    1. 0
      5 February 2013 20: 24
      What do you think, those who went through penal divisions would like their relatives and friends to know about it?
  59. VictorVlad
    +4
    6 February 2013 09: 27
    Hello! Sorry, but I couldn’t stay away from the discussion of the “penal battalion” topic. Yes, the film is artistic and the artist has the right to speculation, fiction and other creative “finds”. However, if the film is historical or about such a pressing topic as the Great Patriotic War, then be kind to the authors, read archival materials and do not allow falsification of the historical truth. We're not even talking about official documents. There are still people alive and living descendants of those people who fought the Nazis in penal companies and penal battalions. One of these is your humble servant. Official statistics and the truth are one thing, and the stories of eyewitnesses and direct participants are quite another. Analyzing both, I can say with responsibility that the film “Penal Battalion” is a complete LIE about penal battalions. According to his uncle, Captain Totkailo Ivan Akimovich, commander of a penal battalion, who fought from the first to the last day of the Second World War, was repeatedly awarded orders and medals, was presented in 1944 for the capture of Konigsberg with the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, an honorary citizen of the city of Riga with the status “Savior of Riga”, all military leaders in penal companies and penal battalions from the platoon commander and above were normal military officers, not convicted, not sullying their honor and dignity with any actions. My uncle was proud and we were all proud that he fought in the penal battalion, since it was there, in the crucible of the most terrible trials, that the essence of man was revealed. It was there that they fought not for fear, but for conscience. It was there that such concepts as mutual assistance, compassion, mutual assistance, friendship, hatred of the enemy, courage and bravery, condolences, human pain, both physical and mental, were transformed from words into deeds right there, on the front line or in the next combat operation. My uncle could not, and did not want to tell us, his nephews, anything about the war... I remember his expression: “Why do you need this? We fought for you. Live and be happy, learn, because everything can be taken away from a person with his life except his head." By releasing to the general public a film about the penal battalion in such, I’m not afraid to say, vile version, the authors and people who contributed to this took upon themselves the huge SIN of untruth, lies and encroached on the TRUTH. Come on... God is their judge. I don’t want to write anything more on this topic. For what?
  60. -3
    6 February 2013 09: 55
    The film "penal battalion" itself cannot be considered historical
    chronicle, just as you can’t take the story of one penal prisoner and
    consider it an immutable truth.

    When I watch this film, I experience the most positive and
    patriotic and sublime emotions. Those situations (fictional or not)
    into which the main characters find themselves are so morally instructive that
    They give us a message to act only as our conscience requires.

    The film is super successful, it is not subject to any criticism, because the goal
    he fulfilled what he set. The goal is to raise the spirit of the Russian Army,
    And don’t forget that we are all people under the sun. good
    1. VictorVlad
      +6
      6 February 2013 10: 11
      What do you know about the spirit of the Russian army? As an officer, I understand. From my personal experience I know that the film “Penalty Ball” contributes to the decay of discipline and negatively affects the relationship between military personnel in the modern Army and Navy.
      1. DmitriRazumov
        +2
        8 February 2013 12: 39
        Quote: VictorVlad
        As an officer, I understand. From my personal experience I know that the film “Penalty Ball” contributes to the decay of discipline and negatively affects the relationship between military personnel in the modern Army and Navy.

        I fully support this. The officers who actually have or had personnel under their command, it is not clear how such a film can be released on screens. It shows that in a military unit it is not the commander and the laws of military life, based, whatever one may say, on the regulations, that rule, but the atmosphere of the criminal gang. This is not possible, comrades. Criminality does not contribute to the strengthening of military discipline and order, on which the combat effectiveness of any army in the world is primarily based. In addition, the film can be accused of implicitly promoting those negative phenomena in military groups from which. our commanders fight in the troops (hazing, assault, etc.).
    2. VictorVlad
      +1
      6 February 2013 13: 08
      I ask you to be careful in labeling. I repeat once again: my uncle was the commander of a penal battalion, a normal non-convicted combat officer. He started the war as a junior lieutenant, and during the formation of penal companies he was appointed platoon commander. At the front, he was successively appointed commander of a penal company and commander of a penal battalion. All in armor. After the war, 27 fragments of various sizes were found in the body. 9 wounds, 4 of them severe, two concussions.
    3. +1
      15 February 2013 11: 48
      Well, of course! The film was ordered, deliberately, to mix the Soviet people with mud, to slander it, so that today’s youth would only have a negative attitude towards the Soviet years, in which they did not live. And mostly today's films about war are lies! It wouldn’t be a bad idea for young people to communicate more with WWII Veterans, so that they don’t perceive the past of their country through a “CROVE” mirror!
  61. mas2001
    0
    6 February 2013 10: 53
    I agree with many of the comments about the film. Yes, there must be artistic fiction, but it must also be far removed from reality!!! no need. To the comments on historical truth, I will add notes on technology. When fired at point-blank range with a 3-point line, the bullet cannot get stuck in the leg (unless they forgot to pour gunpowder into the cartridge and the gases from the firing of the primer pushed the bullet out of the barrel). The result of the shot will be a severed foot and a very serious wound with possible death from painful shock or blood loss.
  62. tor-vic
    +2
    6 February 2013 11: 46
    The movie is nonsense. This is an axiom.
    But where are the true films about the war, about the penal battalion?
    My grandfather was in a penal battalion. It was hell. But now no one wants to remember this. Russia is rising from its knees and no one wants to listen to all such stories.
  63. VictorVlad
    +5
    6 February 2013 12: 59
    That time is getting further and further from us... Veterans are leaving us. Now we, the post-war generation, are becoming grandparents. And so that our land and our people do not become deprived of such concepts as: honesty, truthfulness, good memory of those who died for our present, you and I are responsible. From mouth to mouth, convey the truth about that cruel war. Otherwise, we will be covered by a wave of heresy and untruth, and descendants will grow up for whom we will be ashamed. This is what non-humans do after such films: "... in the village of Vilkhovtsy, Khmelnytsky region, an act of vandalism was committed at a rural cemetery. Criminals at night dug up the grave of war veteran Totkailo Ivan Akimovich, an order bearer who has personal gratitude from J.V. Stalin, the “Savior of Riga" "The goal of the vandals was the hero's awards. However, the family of the veteran who died two years ago kept all his orders and medals, replacing them with an order bar." All this is about my uncle, the commander of the penal battalion Totkaylo Ivan Akimovich. May he rest in heaven and rest in peace! Let him sleep peacefully, the truth about him is alive and passed on from generation to generation. I have the honor! Captain 2nd rank reserve Totkaylo Viktor Vladimirovich
  64. +2
    6 February 2013 14: 44
    I discovered a lot of new things about assault battalions, especially in the comments. My grandfather was a scout and saw penalty soldiers, but he didn’t say anything about machine guns in the back. You can read about the penal battalion. Karpov himself went through this same penal battalion in the past.
  65. VictorVlad
    +1
    10 February 2013 08: 51
    Very smart,
    Hello! Forgive me, please, but do you remember one of the last interviews (Lord forgive me!) with Volodarsky? We all know that there was a lot of negative things that could not be talked about, written about, or shown. Let's say my uncle told a story when he personally shot a German officer with a machine gun just because he refused to answer his questions from the commander of a penal battalion just because, you see, his rank was too low, captain. And the battle required information about the enemy. Such information was given by other officers who saw this essentially lynching. Here are the harsh truths of life, here are the harsh laws of war. The battalion commander could shoot self-inflicted gunfire, but my uncle did not do this, but sent the soldier to be treated and then took him back until the end of the war. During the entire war there were four of them. It is my deep conviction that showing the events of the war years in a one-sided, negative way is dishonest and criminal. As A.I. wrote Solzhenitsyn: “When creating a work of art, an artist must care first of all about the moral side of the creative process. Understand that he (the artist) is entirely responsible for the educational role of his creation. Therefore, when creating a work of art, remember that the only unshakable foundation for a work relating to those or other historical events, the history of the Fatherland, is a scrupulous, zealous observance of TRUTH and HISTORICAL TRUTH.
  66. +1
    15 February 2013 10: 05
    Registered on the site. I consider it inappropriate to require 10 comments before voting for the article “Penal battalion as it is, not as it is shown.” Such conditions, apparently, ensure that there is no opportunity to express one’s opinion. The opinion of the majority of site users apparently does not suit the site organizers.
  67. Mario Borracho
    +1
    18 February 2013 03: 43
    Even if the author himself was an eyewitness to those events and spoke honestly about them, this does not mean that it happened. Most ordinary Germans also had no idea what was happening in their camps.
  68. darks-7
    -4
    18 February 2013 05: 32
    Why wasn’t the History of the War published after World War II, as was the case in other countries? and only in 1963 they released a pathetic parody of several books, which meant there was something to keep secret, so that whose cow would moo, and those shell-shocked by communist propaganda would shut up.
    1. +2
      21 February 2013 07: 23
      Try going to the library and asking for literature about the Second World War before 63.... I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the list and completeness of topics....
  69. Alexei
    +2
    1 March 2013 19: 29
    Vladimir73, I join you.

    darks-7, read books there you will learn a lot, read books written by participants of the Second World War. And then in films like “Only Old Men Go to Battle” you will find episodes from real biographies of real participants in the Second World War.
  70. -3
    April 7 2013 23: 17
    About penal battalions... Respected historian Boris Yulin uses archival data and reports that penal battalions appeared in mid-1942.
    This data is from the archives... which is at odds with reality...
    I still have an extract from the military tribunal, which said that my father opened the account of the losses of the White Finns, showed courage...... and was transferred from the penal battalion.....
    Subsequently, his officer rank and party card were returned to him.....
    Thus, penal battalions existed long before the order of 1942..... and it was not Stalin who borrowed penal battalions from Hitler in 1942. , and Stalin has Hitler......
    1. +3
      April 7 2013 23: 20
      Well, let's start with the fact that during the war with the White Finns there were no officers in the Red Army, just like in 1942.....What else fabulous can you tell???
      1. -3
        April 7 2013 23: 44
        You are right that the commanders of the Red Army officially became officers at the end of July 1943.......
        it doesn’t matter whether you returned your officer’s rank or became a commander of the Red Army again - no need to catch fleas...
        My father never spoke about the war during his lifetime, and I saw a certificate of his penal battalion many years after his death....
        My main message is that penal battalions existed in the Red Army until 1942......
        1. 0
          April 7 2013 23: 47
          Links, photos, scans to the studio
    2. +1
      April 7 2013 23: 59
      Would you mind posting a scan?
      The minus is not mine. The fact is that there are three orders, 227, which mentions the need to create penal units, 298, which states the “Regulations on penal battalions and penal companies, and 323, which regulates the assignment to penal battalions and penal companies. All of them date back to 1942. Earlier I didn't find any information request
      1. +2
        April 8 2013 00: 02
        But there won’t be any scans, because this extract most likely doesn’t exist in nature. And if there is, it will suddenly turn out that it was not earlier than 1942. But let’s wait, let’s wait....
  71. leon561
    +1
    April 27 2013 13: 57
    thanks to the author for the article!
  72. Atomkom
    +2
    April 29 2013 11: 37
    And a popish guy (in an outfit reminiscent of a passive fag) wouldn’t flaunt himself in such a unit for long. . .
    My grandfather was also a penal commander. Not one of the convicted. And he told me in detail. . .
  73. Vliv
    -1
    12 May 2013 17: 03
    I watched this film with pleasure! Nikolai Dostal is a director who has established himself with such films as Cloud-Paradise, Kolya - Tumbleweed, etc., and Volodarsky is the famous Soviet films about the war: Road Check, Without the Right to Fail, etc., as well as very famous films for which he wrote the script: A Friend Among Strangers, a Stranger Among His Own, The Second Attempt of Viktor Krokhin, Red Diplomatic Couriers, and a whole bunch of others, so these two people are beyond doubt for an ordinary film fan like me.
    So, I really liked the film. But, since I have a very corrosive character, after watching it, I began to dig on the Internet to see if the events shown corresponded to real facts.
    All of the above is, for the most part, a fact! There is especially no doubt about the memories of front-line soldiers, Pyltsov, Basov, etc.
    But in defense of the film, I will say the following - perhaps the goal of this film was not historical truth, but some kind of emotional message to the generation, i.e. they showed how it was during the war (not in the penalty parts, but in general), and how it could have been (WITH THE KNOWN IMAGINATION OF THE AUTHOR))). The film is good, but it is necessary to give information before the film that this film for the most part does not reflect the historical reality of that time.
    1. Swift
      +2
      24 May 2013 17: 52
      when you compare films of the same directors, screenwriters like Mikhalkov, Dostal, Volodarsky, pre-perestroika and post-perestroika, and suddenly you understand how opportunistic they are, you begin to understand what kind of intelligentsia Ilyich was talking about...
  74. +1
    12 May 2013 19: 59
    Vliv RU
    But in defense of the film, I will say the following - perhaps the goal of this film was not historical truth, but some kind of emotional message to the generation, i.e. they showed how it was during the war (not in the penalty parts, but in general), and how it could have been (WITH THE KNOWN IMAGINATION OF THE AUTHOR))). The film is good, but it is necessary to give information before the film that this film for the most part does not reflect the historical reality of that time.

    So, showed how it was during the war or AUTHOR'S FANTASIES?!The purpose of this film is to slander the entire people. You watch the film, and you get the impression that ALL people are...! This older generation will rummage through historical chronicles, books written by eyewitnesses, etc. And the film is designed for children and youth, who will watch the delusional “FANTASIES” and believe that this is how it happened! For such “FANTASIES” that discredit the dignity of the people, it is necessary to bring them to criminal responsibility, because This is an information provocation. Let him sit and fantasize!
  75. kasarov
    0
    15 May 2013 12: 59
    I watched the film in amusement (it’s like reading), I especially liked Lyokha Stir. But both during viewing and after, my indignation knew no bounds! I remembered “Eternal Call”, there was a prisoner (the son of a White Guard) Zubov, Aleinikov (NKVD officer) took him from the zone to the front (to a penal battalion), and then in another series Zubov was in uniform, i.e. in the usual drill part, I redeemed it, so to speak. I believe this more than the Penal Battalion. And everyone called the priest “holy father,” Orthodox! You have "FATHER"! Or were the dialogues sent by a Catholic (or someone like that?
  76. Galchonok
    0
    16 May 2013 12: 46
    It is difficult for me to judge the reliability of the historical facts in the film, especially since the film is fiction. I really want feature films about war to show the bitter truth. When the film “They Fought for the Motherland” first came out on the screen, I watched it with my dad. He sat and cried, telling me that some of the scenes were real events that he went through.
  77. 0
    16 May 2013 12: 51
    Galchonok RU
    ...I really want the bitter truth to be shown in feature films about the war.

    I agree with you, about the bitter, but TRUTH, and not “fantasies” on the TOPIC... sucked out of thin air. After all, the worldview of the younger generation will be formed on such fakes...
  78. Swift
    +1
    24 May 2013 02: 32
    The article mentions certain “assault battalions” as disciplinary units
    NEVER officers who emerged from encirclement, escaped or were released from captivity by the advancing units of the Red Army were sent either to penal companies or to penal battalions - only and exclusively to assault battalions where the terms did not vary - 6 (six!) months for everyone! But before that they had to go through the “purgatory” of the NKVD camps,


    Political prisoners have NEVER been sent to penal companies, penal or assault battalions. Although many of them - sincere patriots - were eager to go to the front to defend their Motherland. Lumbering remained their lot.


    Penal officers have NEVER been appointed commanders of penal units and units. Commander assault battalion, as a rule, a lieutenant colonel, and the commanders of its five companies: three rifle, mortar and machine gun - career officers, NOT penal officers. Platoon commanders are appointed from the penalty officers.


    Can anyone explain what parts they mean?

    As far as I know, there were assault brigades in the Red Army, but these were engineering troops that had nothing to do with punishment. There were, following their example, assault companies and groups - sappers separated from ordinary units with well-armed support to destroy well-fortified points of resistance. And they also had nothing to do with the penalty box. Well, perhaps through joint actions - while the penalty soldiers are moving in a crowd, distracting the fascists, the attack aircraft penetrate close to the enemy’s fortified firing points and blow them up, make holes in the walls with explosives and destroy the remaining Germans with machine-gun fire and flamethrowers. Quite a “skillful war” of the Red Army during the liberation and capture of cities and fortified areas.
    Or was there something else “assault”?
  79. Atomkom
    0
    5 June 2013 08: 56
    And the very fact of the presence of a certain creature (in an outfit reminiscent of a passive fag) is absolutely unrealistic. And the owner of the church uniform could walk no more than 10 steps. To make it easier to slap him in front of the line for not following orders. . .
    Especially when trying to arrange a prayer service. Gentlemen from the CPSU do not respect competitors even now. . .
  80. aleksm2008
    0
    13 June 2013 19: 42
    It’s good that articles appear that, for once, do not spoil our history, and, accordingly, us.
  81. Ivan-717
    0
    22 May 2014 09: 50
    This site has a bad habit of presenting the whole nightmare of the Stalinist and communist system in a rosy color....
  82. +1
    23 October 2016 22: 23
    There was such a writer Vladimir Karpov - Hero of the Soviet Union. He is the only one who “served” in the penal battalion without being wounded. Three times they submitted nominations for the title of Hero. By the way, you can see him on a military chronicle where the Germans are marching through Moscow in 1944 - this was a former member of the penal battalion....
  83. 0
    23 October 2016 22: 32
    Thanks for the info. Correct remarks
  84. 0
    24 October 2016 10: 05
    Penalty companies are another matter. It is a mistake to think that the criminals who made up the main contingent of these companies are eager to give their lives for their homeland. Quite the opposite. And the author knows about this not from such films
    Grandfather was in a penal company and never saw a single criminal. Several criminals who were sent from the Mariinsky prison to the front did not reach their destination. They dumped every single one of them from the train.
  85. 0
    24 October 2016 10: 07
    I highly recommend the book “The Real History of Penal Battalions” to those interested. There, based on official documents and memories of former penal prisoners, everything is described in detail
  86. 0
    25 October 2016 10: 49
    Com. The company sends a soldier to the river for water. A sniper kills him. He sends a second one, he is also killed. He sends a third, he says I won’t go, the company yells and says he will shoot. The fighter raises his machine gun and shoots at the lump. company kills. The soldiers say, don’t worry, we won’t tell anyone, let’s say a bullet came from the other side. This was not shown in Soviet films. And this case happened.
  87. +1
    25 October 2016 11: 47
    Being an SA soldier in 87-88. As part of the 3rd Specialized Brigade of the 1st Specialized Brigade of the 5th UAC located in the city of Hero Minsk, Belarusian SSR, he took part in the filming of one of the crowd scenes of the feature film "Gu-ga". 1st hour 56 minutes from 46th to 58th seconds. Well, maybe somewhere else. Having watched this film after the collapse of my country, I greatly regret this incident in my life. Stupid movie. Pretentious and stupid.
    In general, when I left my Novocherkassk in 87 to defend this country, I didn’t even think that when I returned I would find a completely different one. Yes, it was still the USSR de jure, but in fact it was some kind of wildly Americanizing de facto fair. It's a pity.
  88. 0
    26 October 2016 01: 57
    And everyone read how Kostya Raikin screamed and got excited. When they hinted to him that his “Shades of Blue” should be shown anywhere in toilets and under no circumstances public. Also from the Gusskys.... That's why it's always like this. Well, it’s impossible not to notice.
  89. 0
    26 October 2016 20: 52
    You can’t say better!
  90. 0
    28 October 2016 13: 39
    Quote: Frigate
    Excellent clarification by the author. it becomes clear that the Shtrafbat were not cowards or traitors, as many believe


    Of course there were no panties, because... Behind is an NKVD detachment. When a person says or writes the words NEVER AND NOBODY, it is hard to believe, because... one author of an article is not enough for an objective view.
    If you study history from movies, you can become a Medina.
  91. 0
    15 February 2017 15: 18
    Everything is correct, but almost nothing is said about those with whose “blessing” this anti-Soviet propaganda, lying from beginning to end, was concocted, with which, first of all, they are trying (the authors or those who organized it) to humiliate the Russian soldier and try to prove that the Second World War was won Penalties! Well, okay, the Americans and their Western “singers”, but where does our “filmmakers” come from so much anger and meanness? It’s time to ask the competent authorities about their inaction... But what can I say, everything is clear: he who pays calls the tune, but We don't need this music!!!
  92. 0
    10 May 2017 08: 31
    Everything is correctly said by the author and from here we can conclude that “... the devil is hidden in the details...” and I would like to ask a question to the creators of this “historical masterpiece”: “Who are you, gentlemen of film-makers, and whose mill are you feeding? water (quite cloudy)?
  93. 0
    10 May 2017 14: 31
    There are some lies in this article: political prisoners ended up in penal cells (never say “never!”) example - the writer Karpov - Hero of the Soviet Union, was convicted by denunciation “for politics”, after a letter to Kalinin he was sent to a penal company , from there to reconnaissance and for a long time could not become a Hero, since Article 58 and the penal company got in the way. The lies about Marshal Zhukov (clearing minefields) are just lies! The reference to the American General Eisenhower is insignificant, because the American “generals” lie like gray geldings! Suffice it to recall the speech at the UN Security Council by Colin Power (also a former “general”) with his test tube with white powder. I wonder if it was baking soda or powdered sugar? Now, regarding the technique of demining using the method of “walking” through a minefield, if a journalist like “Vonidze” can mutter such heresy, then an officer is “out of rank”! An anti-tank mine is designed to bear the weight of a tank and if a person steps on it it simply will not work! Because the weight is not the same. An anti-personnel mine to a tank is like pellets to an elephant! You don’t need to be an expert in mines, just watch the film with E. Matveev “Earthly Love” (or its sequel, I don’t remember the name), where the main character is captured by the Germans, and these Western “common people” force the prisoners to clear the minefield, VOLOCHA HEAVY HARROW WITH LOAD!!! So that anti-tank mines would work, and not just walk across the field on foot, which would have no effect. If you don’t have enough brains, and don’t know how to “attack” the Marshal of Victory, watch normal feature films about the war, from the times of the USSR, and not today’s crafts!
  94. 0
    29 June 2017 06: 51
    I liked the white tiger, a complete allegory, but a correct allegory
    and the courage of our tank crews is shown strongly. Yahshi.
  95. 0
    3 September 2018 13: 27
    But what about the “Bitch War” in the zones after the Second World War? Wasn’t there either?