So who nevertheless liberated Prague in 1945?

Recently, or rather, on December 10th, the VIASAT “History” channel presented those who watched it at that moment (I confess, there was nothing more interesting around) next historical opus. It was about the liberation of Prague in May 1945. I learned a lot of new and interesting things, I especially liked about the "Assignment by the Red Army of the role of the liberator of Prague." I know my position on this issue, I decided to read the future authors who state the position “from the other side”. Chose two: J. Hoffman and S. Auski. The first - because it seems to be German, the second - because it seems to be Czech. Then a certain doctor Stepanek-Shtemr was added to them. And plus me with comments.

So, the Czech uprising in 1945. Who and how prepared it, I will allow myself to omit, there are more than enough materials about this. I only note that back in 1943 the “president" Benesh had to silently hear in Moscow Molotov’s caustic remark about the lack of resistance in the protectorate. And now the Czech people, as Benes put it, also proved his "readiness for resistance." Actually, why not be ready? Reich Khan on all counts and on all fronts, you can escape from riveting tanks, aircraft and cars in the name of his victory. Moreover, the Germans themselves did not particularly strive for yet another brawl, they had other tasks: to get either to Berlin (at the most conscious part in April 1945), or to the Americans. And the heroic Czechs, laying aside wrenches and hammers, took up weapon. And they rebelled.

Soviet soldiers riding on the heavy tank IS-2 through the streets of liberated Prague

It turned out, however, that, to put it mildly, the situation on all fronts, the Germans are in no hurry to lay down their arms and surrender. Particularly unfinished part of the divisions "Das Reich" and "Wallenstein", which were able to bend those who imagined themselves to be cool warriors of the Czechs. What, in fact, they demonstrated.

In general, the Prague uprising was as if copied from Warsaw. Not “White starts and wins,” but “start and loudly call for help.” Chekhov enough for a day. The uprising began on May 5, and already on May 6, the authors I quoted unanimously assess the situation of the rebels as disastrous. And, as in Warsaw, some problems began.

The 3-I American army, located at Pilsen, in 70 kilometers west of Prague, had now stopped its movement. Because already at that time there was an agreement on “who will dance the girl,” that is, to liberate Prague. The troops of the 1 of the Ukrainian Front stood north of the Dresden - Gorlits line 140 kilometers from the city, the troops of the 2 of the Ukrainian Front stood at Brynn in 160 kilometers, and the troops of the 4 of the Ukrainian front stood at Olomouc in 200 kilometers from Prague. The British and Americans did not respond to the desperate calls of the Czechs for help, moreover, the Americans in the area occupied by them even prevented the population from spontaneous support for the rebels (that is, they prevented them from killing Germans who surrendered to them as prisoners) and could not intervene. Although no one tried to reconcile this rebellion with the Soviet troops. Just like in Warsaw.

It turns out that the only one who responded to the desperate appeals of the rebels was the division of the ROA under the command of Bunyachenko. And even then, did not respond immediately. Bargained pretty, because really wanted to live. And preferably not near the Soviet Army.

And what was the "savior" according to Hoffman?

“The battles of the 1 division in Prague began in the afternoon of May 6 with an attack on the Ruzyne airfield, located northwest of the city. At this time, the largest (but not the only one, I would note) from Prague airfields was the 6-I combat squadron, a military unit called Högebak, reinforced by links of several fighter squadrons with jet fighters of the type Me-262. The German command still hoped to keep the airfield and the adjacent territory with the barracks behind it, while the Bartosh group (the organizers of the uprising) attached particular importance to the capture of Ruzyne — firstly, to prevent the Germans from using the airfield for the Luftwaffe operations, and secondly, to provide an opportunity for landing the planes of the Western powers, to whose aid the rebels still counted. Major General Bunyachenko went to meet the wishes of the Czechs: in the morning of May 6, the 3 th regiment under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Aleksandrov-Rybtsov turned north from the Beroun-Prague highway, in the direction of Hraštany-Sobin-Hostivice.

The battles for the airfield were preceded by several attempts at negotiations, which remained, however, unsuccessful and even led to tragic consequences. Being on the approaches to the airfield, the 1 th regiment entered into contact with the squadron headquarters through an envoy: according to German sources, to negotiate a truce, according to the Russian (who, it seems, closer to the truth) - to achieve the immediate surrender of the airfield. After unsuccessful negotiations, the Colonel Sorge, the Chief of Staff of the 8 Aviation Corps, who had just landed in Ruzyne, the former Chief of Staff under Lieutenant-General Aschenbrenner, volunteered to personally go to the Vlasov troops, apparently believing that yesterday's allies had become enemies due to misunderstanding. that, as he knew, all the troops of the ROA were to be united at Budvays. Saying that Vlasov is his best friend and that he will settle the whole matter in a few minutes, Sorge ordered to provide him with a car. However, shortly after Sorge’s departure, his adjutant, Captain Kolhund, returned alone with an ultimatum: if the airfield does not capitulate soon, the Vlasovites will shoot the colonel. And the soldiers of the ROA fulfilled their promise: Sorge, who had done a lot to create the RAA Air Force and reach an understanding between the Russians and the Germans, was shot.

Aerial reconnaissance informed the Germans in advance about the entry of "the entire Vlasov army along several highways into the Prague-Ruzyne area." When the attempts at negotiations failed and the forward detachments of the "well-armed and equipped Vlasov units" were already fighting with the Germans, the squadron headquarters decided to unexpectedly attack Russian columns with all Me-262 aircraft and shoot them with a strafing flight. This attack stopped the battalions of the 3 regiment, whose tanks tried unsuccessfully to break into the runway and who then began firing at the airfield from grenade launchers and heavy infantry guns, not daring to move on. But by that time, the airfield had lost its importance for the Germans. The efficient German vehicles were transferred to Saatz, and the German crews broke through the Russian encirclement the next morning. However, the airfield 3 th regiment ROA took possession only after hours of exchange of fire with an experienced rearguard Waffen-SS.

At this time, the reconnaissance detachment under the command of Major Kostenko was still in the Radotin-Zbraslav region, with the front facing south. On the morning of May 6, a meeting of commanders was held at the headquarters of the division in Jinonice. At 10 hours, the commander of the reconnaissance department reported on the radio that he was being crushed by parts of the Waffen-SS with six Tiger tanks and he was moving down the Vltava in the direction of the Prague suburb of Smichov. Bunyachenko immediately ordered Arkhipov, the commander of the 1 th regiment, coming from Korno, to go to the rescue of Kostenko. As a result of an unexpected attack by the 1 regiment, the German fighting group Moldautal (part of the Wallenstein SS division), which occupied the Vltava bank between Zbraslav and Huhle, was thrown south to the other side in the afternoon. Lieutenant Colonel Arkhipov, whose regiment made his way through Smichov to the area of ​​the bridges of Irashek and Palacky, left a company with an anti-tank gun to guard the bridges across the Vltava until the evening. 6 May 1945 of the year, around 23 hours, the main forces of the 1 Division of the ROA took the line Ruzyne - Břevnov - Smichov - Vltava Bank - Huhle. The 1 th regiment was located in the area between Smihov and the bridges across the Vltava, the 2 th regiment was at Huhle-Slivenets, the 3 th regiment was at Ruzyne-Břevnova, the 4 th regiment and the reconnaissance detachment were in and north of it. An artillery regiment took up firing positions at Tslikhovsky heights, having equipped advanced observation posts.

How did ROA fight in Prague on that fateful day of May 7? The combat order of the division commander, drawn up according to the idea of ​​the Bartosh group and given at night on 1.00, envisaged an attack on the city center in three directions. The brunt of the attack was to inflict a regiment of Lieutenant Colonel Arkhipov from the Smikhov area in the morning at 5.00. The regiment, which had several tanks, artillery guns and anti-tank guns and had experienced guides with it, managed to cross the bridges across the Vltava and advance through Vinogradi to Strasnitsy, and from there south to Pankrats. The 4 th regiment from the north, commanded by Colonel Sakharov, captured important objects in the city itself, including Petrin Hill. The 3 th regiment - commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Alexavdrov-Rybtsov - passed through Břevnov - Stršovice and Hradčany and, coordinating with the 4 regiment, managed to break through to the western arm of the Vltava. Finally, the artillery regiment of Lieutenant-Colonel Zhukovsky, who took firing positions between Koshir and Zlikhov in the morning, but transferred them partly forward during the day, in agreement with the Bartosh group, fired at German strongholds in the area of ​​the hospital, Petrin Hill and in other places. Fighting in the center of the city against units of the Wallenstein SS division that had entered from the south were fought by the rest of the 1 division. The 2 th regiment under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Artemyev, separated by the division commander in May in the Khukhle-Slivenets area, after a fierce battle near Lagovici u Prahy, pressed the enemy to Zbraslav, and the reconnaissance team under the command of Major Kostenko took posts on the east bank of the Vltava in the area of ​​Zbraslav turning south. " The end of the quote.

Oops ... Everything is presented very beautifully. Straight, blitzkrieg in Bugnachenski style. It is clear that at first there was no sensible resistance from the Germans, because their people in German uniform and with German weapons attacked. Anyway. Returning to Hoffman:

“It is not surprising that the rebels reacted to the Russians as liberators and gratefully welcomed the participation of the ROA in the uprising. The attitude of the Czech population to ROA soldiers is everywhere described as “very good, fraternal”: “The population met them with enthusiasm”. ”

I understand that the Czechs didn’t give a damn about who to greet, as long as they were idiots, ready to substitute their heads for German bullets in their place. Because at that time their uprising had already turned into zilch. The fact that they were TWICE CHANGERS (by the oath given by the USSR and personally to Hitler) did not bother them. But then everything went somewhat wrong, as the main protagonists would like.

“In the evening of May 7 in the division headquarters, no one doubted that Prague would be occupied by Soviet, not American, troops. In the 23 hours, Bunyachenko with a heavy heart gave the order to cease hostilities and leave the city. Late in the evening, the fortifications on the west bank of the Vltava, between Prague and Zbraslav, were removed, and by dawn, the POA units had left the city. True, the 2 th regiment in the morning of May 8 still fired in the area of ​​Sliveenec south-west of Prague with parts of the Waffen-SS. But on the same day, the 12 watch received a message about the withdrawal of the 1 division of the ROA in full force along the Prague-Beroun highway. The Russian and German troops, who had just fought against each other, now moved together to the American positions west of Pilsen. "

(This moment is the key).

“We give evidence of two Czech eyewitnesses to the events. Former member of the Czech National Council, Dr. Makhotka, writes that the intervention of the Vlasov army was “decisive”, substantially changing martial law in Prague in favor of the rebels and greatly encouraging the population.
In those hours when neither the Americans, nor the British, nor the Soviet helped us, when no one responded to our endless requests on the radio, they were the only ones to rush to our aid.

In the opinion of Colonel of the Czechoslovak People’s Army, Dr. Stepanek-Stemra, in May 1945, the head of the communications department of the 1 of the Czechoslovak Corps, the main achievement of the Vlasovites was that the old historical part of the city remained and most of the population remained unharmed ... Undoubtedly, thanks to the participation of the Vlasovites in the uprising on the side of the Czech patriots - even if it lasted only a few hours - Prague was saved from destruction. ”

I think that the population would have suffered less, and there would have been no damage if the people of Prague were sitting on a soft spot exactly, and would have waited quietly while the Germans would pile themselves. Fortunately, this was the case. Having built this pseudo-uprising, they only caught the adventure on this place, nothing more.

“Dr. Stepanek-Shtemr rightly notes that“ Prague ... in fact ... was liberated from the German troops on the morning of May 8 "and Soviet tanks entered" into the already liberated Prague. "

Once again I will draw your attention to the selected moment from Hoffman. That is, in connection with the approach of our troops, the Germans and the ROA together piled from Prague. And, it turns out that ours entered the empty city. Attention question: How, then, to understand the data cited by Western sources about the losses of our troops in the Prague operation? And they are not small:

Personnel
11,997 non-returnable
40,501 injured and sick
Total 52,498

Material losses
373 tanks and ACS
1,006 Gunnery
80 aircraft
(This is according to the American D. Glantz, specially). After which the Army Group "Center" from 850 000 people left the game.

What are the losses from POA?
Personnel:
About 300 killed, about 600 injured (about the same, since all of the wounded Vlasovites who were in the Czech hospitals ... we received it. There were no chocolates in our rations then, and they replaced it with candy for PCA. It is well deserved).

Material losses:
1 tank
Xnumx artillery guns.

Blitzkrieg, straight.

“Shortly after joining the city, General Rybalko arrived at the CNS meeting to find out issues extremely important for the USSR -“ to learn about the meaning of the uprising, its current, the participation in it of the so-called Vlasov army and the surrender of the Germans ”. Judging by the reaction of the general, the messages received by him did not satisfy him - he bluntly stated that all the Vlasovites would be shot. In response to the “energetic and heartfelt” requests of Professor Prazak and other Council members to spare these people who fought for Prague, General Rybalko made a “generous concession,” saying that not everyone would be shot. ”

Yes, it was probably difficult for a combat general to understand what the essence of the senseless and useless uprising was. And what have these forgotten here ... But you kept the word: not everybody was shot.

In general, I think that the picture actually looked like this:
At the time of the events, Prague became the entrance yard for the German army, fleeing to American captivity. Crowds of German soldiers, who were moving to the west, both with or without some order, went through the city, giving its residents the opportunity to enjoy all the charms that accompanied such events. The Czechs could still tolerate such things from the Third Reich. But from the stinging stub, which is about to be finally trampled down - netushki.

And on May 2, a delegation of Czechs comes to Bunyachenko. Czechs ask Russian little brothers to help them raise a rebellion.

“In the name of saving the heroic sons of Czechoslovakia, in the name of saving the defenseless old men, mothers, wives and our children, help us. The Czech people will never forget your help in the difficult moment of their struggle for freedom, ”they said to General Bunyachenko.

Bunyachenko did not consider himself entitled to interfere in the affairs of Czechoslovakia, but it was also impossible for him to remain indifferent and indifferent to the events. Not all the Vlasov soldiers and officers of the First Division were indifferent to this. They all warmly sympathized with the Czechs and admired their readiness for an unequal struggle with the Germans. General Vlasov and General Bunyachenko understood perfectly the responsibility that they would have taken upon themselves, giving their consent to the support of the uprising. The delegation left without receiving a definite answer.

However, due to common sense, it was necessary to do something. If the Czechs rebel, and the division will just sit side by side, the Germans will disarm it first thing so as not to loom. And they can not take it with you to the captive to the allies.

Speaking of satiety. Something had to earn the favor of the local population in the form of the issuance of food and fodder. All the extra weapons had already been distributed, so it was decided to slightly disarm the Germans and so feasible to support the Czechs. Well, the Czechs will feed the brothers Slavs. The Germans were disarmed extremely correctly so that in case of failure of the plan one could somehow dissuade. So, the scene is as follows: Germans go through Prague to the west, committing lewdness. In Prague, the Czechs are bad, they are preparing to kick the Germans to be at the box office. Around Prague, the most active Czechs are already running through the forests and kick the Germans. South-west of Prague sits the POA, and is waiting for the Americans to surrender. If this is called “the fight against Nazism” and “active support of the Prague uprising” ... Generally, in fairness, I note that the ROA better “fought” against Nazism when in April 1945 just abandoned its position near Frankfurt an der Oder and calmly toppled side of the Americans. What we enjoyed using ours.

However, the situation is changing rapidly. After some time, the Czechs again arrived at Vlasovites, informing them of the interesting. German troops approached Prague, penetrating into American captivity and, instead of disarming Vlasovites, are actively bending the Czechs, because they still raised a rebellion and prevent them from passing into this very American captivity. Vlasov people estimated that the majority of evil armed people in gray and black uniforms would already pass through Prague by the time they appeared, and told the Slav brothers: "We are going !!!"

And the Vlasovites, who went over to the side of the whistle itself, arrived at the scene of action in order to reap the glory of the "savior of Prague." From what they could save Prague is not clear. About any "suppression of the uprising and the destruction of Prague on the model of Warsaw," there was no question. The Wehrmacht of the summer-autumn model 1944 of the year could hold the Red Army on the Vistula for some time and “clear out” Warsaw by 1945. But in the spring of 1945, the Germans simply had to break through the corridor through the rebel territories to the west and leave. There was no sense, no order, either to arrange a total slaughter or to destroy Prague. And any sensible person, even a very cowardly one, understood this well.

So, while German units flown around Prague on the one hand, the Vlasovites safely entered it on the other side without any difficulties, and even now they no longer needed an airfield with planes abandoned on it.

In general, the triumph was close. A little more - and the Vlasovites would bring the rescued Prague on a silver platter to the allied forces and still heroically fall into the well-fed American captivity. But on May 7, when at a meeting of the Vlasovites and the improvised Czech government, the parties announced their plans, the Czechs sent Vlasovites in vodkuda. The Czechs were people extremely practical and repeatedly affected by this extraordinary, simply transcendent, almost Polish, practicality. Therefore, to surrender to the patronage of the “heroes”, who sat down to the last in the rear, and wanted to suffer from such practicality, they once again wanted the least. And the fact that the city, which hosts Vlasovites, who are waiting for the Americans, will suffer as the Red Army approaches, do not go to the fortuneteller. And the fact that the Vlasovites themselves from the city will be dumped at the same time instantly, leaving the Czechs to “wait for the Americans” in splendid isolation at the gunpoint of Russian cannons — do not go to the fortuneteller either. And everything spoke just for the fact that Soviet tanks would enter the city first.

Thus, on the night of 7 on 8 in May, “support for the uprising” was over, and the Vlasovites “coming out of the battlefield” moved westward after the Germans. Finally, the Czech partisans caught the ROA chief of staff Major General Trukhin, who were grateful for the "rescue of Prague" and surrendered it to the Soviet troops. And the Vlasov generals Boyarsky and Shapovalov who accompanied him were killed "while trying to resist."

10 May, the heroic epic of ideological fighters against communism came to an end - the Vlasovites finally met American tanks. The Americans ordered to disarm, and on May 11 all weapons except the minimum necessary to protect themselves were surrendered. After that, in a relaxed atmosphere of full armament of one side of the negotiations and complete disarmament of the other side, the main thing turned out. The fact that the epic fighters against communism do go all the same. The US Army does not intend to accept the ROA capitulation and give it any guarantees, while the territory where the ROA 1 Division is located will be handed over to the Russians. "And sort it out among themselves." Oops ...

“Alles, the circus is closing, everyone is free, whoever goes where!” Said Vlasov and Bunyachenko and surrendered to the Americans in private.

"No no no! Nafig from the beach! ”- said the Americans and gave Vlasov and Bunyachenko to the Russians, who were Soviet. And they made quite a show with a rope.

"Heroes of ROA" shrugged their shoulders and dispersed who where. Grateful Czechs trapped heroes who made their way to West Germany and handed them over to the Soviet authorities.

Whoever finds in this story of “the liberation of Prague” any truth and heroism, show me where. I do not see. To sculpt the heroes of the liberators from this shit, as Viasat-Histori sculpts, this must be respected very much.

Maybe someone from read, will have a different opinion. But I have this. Someone is quite like the historical material of Auski and Stepanek, who does not, the fact is that all these attempts to repaint the black sheep into white should not lead to results.

http://www.radio.cz/ru/rubrika/progulki/prazhskoe-vosstanie-poslednie-zhertvy-velikoj-vojny
Auski Stanislav Betrayal and treason. General Vlasov's troops in the Czech Republic
Hoffmann J. Vlasov against Stalin. The tragedy of the Russian liberation army

Comments

[Vladimir 70]

Good article! We must teach all this at school and show the rotten insides of Europeans. Otherwise, the USSR, with its political correctness, closed its eyes to these events and exalted the significance of the "liberation struggle" of the Poles and Czechs against the German troops.

[haron]

Quote: Vladimir 70

It is necessary to teach and show all this rotten insides of Europeans at school.

By the way, in Czech schools they teach (well, almost like that) and that the uprising was unprofitable and that the ROA participated, but the councils freed Prague (the memorial tablet on the town hall wasn’t removed, like).

And at the expense of rotten insides, Ukrainians would be better silent.

Imagine a small country in the very center of Europe where all the neighbors around are vicious aggressors. To whom do you don’t turn your face, you’ll definitely show the ass to which you will be pecked right away or even half bit off :)

From 1945 to 1992, the USSR covered its ass to the Czechs with its contingent, but demanded restrictions on contacts with the side where the ass was turned (well, rightly, there is nothing to communicate through train.)
Now everything has changed places .... but the country and people are essentially in the same situation. And blaming them that they survive this way is a little wrong.

Show shading to authors of books and channels but not to nationals.

[подводник]

Imagine a small country in the very center of Europe where all the neighbors around are vicious aggressors. To whom do you don’t turn your face, you’ll definitely show the ass to which you will be pecked right away or even half bit off :)

So, if you are a small state surrounded by evil aggressors, then you can act like a corrupt woman ....

Now everything has changed places .... but the country and people are essentially in the same situation. And blaming them that they survive this way is a little wrong.

Stop ... You are in a completely civilized and democratically developed Europe, where all nations are brothers and help each other cope with the economic crisis ...
And even consist in one block opposing the wild Russian hordes from the east ....
Now it turns out that you still have a "point plays" .....
And why???...
And before whom??

[Misantrop]

Colleague, they play a point out of habit. Centuries-old experience, so to speak, reflex

[Serge]

well, so they are also Slavic people

[Karlsonn]

Serge

Quote: Seryoga

well, so they are also Slavic people

What do you mean by that?

[Alex]

Quote: Seryoga

well, so they are also Slavic people

That's just long ago forgotten about it. They are all Germans closer now.

[haron]

Quote: submariner

And even consist in one block opposing the wild Russian hordes from the east ....

So you answered your question.
Unlike your president, who knows how to talk and negotiate, you will not accept any compromises ... Czechs are traitors, cowards and adaptations - the end.
The article is good, with the right conclusions, but comments do not sparkle with logic.
What can one discuss in this tone?

[подводник]

No, why don’t we know how to talk ????
Do not just quietly whitewash and launder what was messed up ..
Here you (Europeans) blame us Russians for everything, demand from us some kind of repentance for some sins (for allegedly unleashed war, for allegedly communist occupation), the Poles so come to shit at any mention of Russians ..
And you yourself do not want to tell us Russian ???
After all, with the hands of your grandfathers, tanks and armored personnel carriers were gathering at your factories that crushed our land, our soldiers, women and children ??
Or are you so highly cultured that you cannot condescend to this ???

[DmitriRazumov]

The fate of all small countries, as history shows, is the same. If you want to keep "independence" - turn around. Monitor who is stronger, richer, etc. Change your orientation, blocs, alliances in time ... In my opinion, it's better not to show off, but to be part of a normal country. Once upon a time the Czechs were part of the Austrian Empire and did not like the Germans very much because they built universities and cities in them, sacked Prague 3 times, but oppressed ..., did not recognize national independence. Now they do not like Russians, because we supplied them with cheap oil and gas, defended their independence, but oppressed ... - tanks were introduced in 68. Who will we dislike next time.

[aldashckin2012]

Next time - yourself

[Bubo]

Dear Submariner!
In an alliance with you, I would still remember the "white Czech brothers" who handed over Alexander Vasilyevich Kolchak, who guarded the "golden train" in Irkutsk for 2 weeks, while the Reds and Kolchak "came off", and who after that without hindrance with weapons in hands left the territory of the young Soviet republic. And most importantly, after which there was an economic recovery in the Czech Republic, while the economies of the rest of Europe were in a fever after the 1st World War.
I do not blame, but there are suspicions that the “white Czech brothers” did not guard the “golden squad” in Irkutsk in good faith.

[evgenm55]

Wonderfully shaved, shake my hand, comrade!

[viruskvartirus]

I met an interesting info about the bombs made by the Czechs in which instead of an explosive, anything was scored ... and a comment that we had to behave humanly, otherwise the next time (God forbid) no one would risk it.

[slas]

Quote: haron

So you answered your question.

He may have answered, but you don’t understand anything.

[galaktika]

there really is nothing to discuss already, the story is written in red and black, ktozh admits that he is a coward, that he betrayed and, in addition, also helped, that he stupidly saved his worthless skin, but you had to die in a foreign land, lay down on embrasures, burn in a tank

[Karlsonn]

galaktika

Yeah, that's just the Czechs mainly worked for the Nazis, well, so as not to get into their own fights, and ours burned in tanks built by the Czechs.
Here is a brotherhood of the Slavs.

[Pushkar]

"Ours burned in tanks built by the Czechs"?!?! When where?

[Karlsonn]

Pushkar

since you are not in the know, briefly enlighten:

- ... Austria was followed by the Czech Republic with its most powerful military-technical potential, concentrated at the Skoda, ChKD, Poldi, Zbroevka factories. At the same time, the 1582 aircraft and 469 tanks fell into the hands of the Wehrmacht - i.e. slightly less than Germany had before the occupation of this country. In addition to armored vehicles, aircraft from the Czechs, more than 1,4 million rifles and pistols, over 62 thousand machine guns, about 4 thousand guns and mortars, a huge amount of other military equipment were received.

By the 1 of September 1939, five infantry divisions had been equipped with Czech weapons, not counting other units and subunits, including those that had participated in the occupation of Poland. The following year, four more infantry divisions received Czech weapons and equipment, and by the beginning of World War II, the number of formations fully or partially equipped with Czech arms manufacturers had increased several times. Czech tanks became the main machine of the 6-th tank division of the Wehrmacht, operating in the Leningrad direction. On the southern flank of the Soviet-German front, Czech armored vehicles were in service with the 1th Slovak motorized division and Romanian troops. Having fought on Czech tanks, Lieutenant Colonel Helmut Ritgen admitted that “without the Czech military industry and Czech tanks, we would not have four tank divisions, which would make an attack on the Soviet Union impossible.” Berlin appreciated the contribution of Czech enterprises to strengthening the military-technical power of the Reich and established a flexible incentive system for workers of Czech military factories, including increased food standards, which were sometimes better than in Germany. “The Czechs handed over to us all the necessary information about their tanks,” recalled German colonel engineer Iken. “We never had to deal with shares of sabotage or any resistance.”

Until the end of the war, the share of Czech factories in the production of tanks remained very significant: from January to March of the 1945 of the 3922 of tanks and self-propelled gun mounts made for the Reich, the Czechs gave 1136, that is, almost a third! ...
... In total, France and the Czech Republic provided Germany with about 10 of thousands of tanks, self-propelled guns and basic vehicles to create only their own designs. This is almost twice as much as the official allies of the Reich Italy and Hungary, which replenished the tank fleet of the coalition army with only 5,5 with thousands of military vehicles. You can not be considered purely German and many of the remaining 43's thousand tanks. A considerable part of them left the shops of Austria and the Czech Republic, and even more were partially made there. For example, tank corps and towers were produced almost throughout the war at the Austrian Böhler Brothers, Scheller Beckmann factories, Linz Metallurgical Plants, the Czech Poldi plant, the French Peugeot and other European enterprises ....

[Karlsonn]

.... The French and Czechs have special “merits” in the production of the famous “frame”. We are talking about the Fokke-Wulf double-hull artillery aerial correctors. Of the 894 produced "frames", only about two hundred came off the assembly line of a plant in Bremen, Germany. But in Prague and in Bordeaux they were produced 357 and 393, respectively.

It is very difficult to accurately determine the share of Luftwaffe aircraft produced in occupied countries, since a significant part of them is a product of cooperation between the Reich factories and European military enterprises. Where, for example, include more than a thousand German aircraft with French aircraft engines? However, taking into account 9 of thousands of Austrian-made aircraft, Czech Messerschmitts, Goths, French Junkers, French and Czech frames, the air armada is hardly less than Lend-Lease ....
... Even if we do not separately single out German guns and mortars produced at Austrian factories and the Czech-Moravian lands, the proportion of others looks very solid. From the Reich factories (within the borders of the 14 of March 1939 of the year), the troops received 16 539 37-mm, 9568 50-mm guns, 23 453-mm guns, 75 anti-tank guns of a larger caliber 2500-80-mm, as well as 128-463-mm 40 mm guns. At the same time, from the Czech Republic to Germany and its allies, 75 1724-mm and 37 755-mm guns fell ... At the same time, the Czechs transferred Skoda howitzers and 47 guns for the needs of the 439 front .. The European contribution to the EU looks even more impressive heavy and superheavy artillery of the Reich. Whereas in Germany about a thousand guns of caliber from 41-mm and higher were made, over six hundred were received from the Czech Republic, France and Poles with Scandinavians of similar systems. For heavy trunks from 203 to 305 mm caliber, almost complete equality was observed - 807 German versus 96 French, Czech and Norwegian. To shell Leningrad, part of Army Group North used howitzers and mortars of French and Czech production. In total, occupied Europe replenished the German artillery with almost 91 with thousands of barrels. This is not much less than the invasion army 40 June 22 year, and almost three times the number of Lend-Lease guns delivered to the USSR ....

[mehanik27]

I understand yours, these are those who entered the Wehrmacht, since they burned in tanks built by the Czechs ???

[Karlsonn]

mehanik27

Who are you talking to?

[mehanik27]

to you ... quote you
... "Yeah, but the Czechs mostly worked for the Nazis, well, so as not to get into their own fight, but ours burned in tanks built by the Czechs.
here is the brotherhood of the Slavs .... ".... so who burned there in the tanks built by the Czechs ???

[Karlsonn]

mehanik27

This is not the first time I have encountered a misunderstanding due to the specifics of communication on the network - ours are Soviet! Here's what is surprising to me is your conclusion from what I wrote, almost at least a couple of my comments on this issue would not have arisen for you.

and who and for what minus, please answer.

[mehanik27]

You wrote that they burned yours in Czech tanks .. you were immediately asked when and where OURS were burned in Czech tanks. After that you told us Polisinel’s secret about how the Czechs worked for Germany and supplied tanks, too. That’s why the question is who are yours that burned in Czech tanks. So my conclusion is not surprising, I don’t know who YOURS are and who NOT YOURS

[Karlsonn]

mehanik27

viewed your comment

Quote: Karlsonn

and ours burned in tanks built by the Czechs.
Here is a brotherhood of the Slavs.

I apologize to all those present, of course - ours were burning in tanks lined with weapons built by the Czechs.
Thanks for the correction and attention.
with me +, and raising your rating .

[mehanik27]

I'm for historical accuracy, not for ratings))))

[Karlsonn]

mehanik27

Quote: mehanik27

I'm for historical accuracy, not for ratings))))

like , but you won’t do anything, I’ve already raised the rating for you.

[mehanik27]

I compensated in response)))

[Karlsonn]

mehanik27

thanks, of course, but it's superfluous, I was mistaken - sealed up, wrote from work - employees - radishes

[Alex]

Quote: haron

Unlike your president, who can talk and negotiate

I will not sign for the Russians, and even more so for everyone, but I personally do not really like that kind of flexibility of the leadership of the once great power. Probably because you liked her.

[Karlsonn]

подводник

Quote: submariner

So, if you are a small state surrounded by evil aggressors, then you can act like a corrupt woman ....

I also liked the moment where the author focused on the so-called Czech struggle with the Germans during the occupation - such a typical European struggle with the occupiers.

though there is still a difference between Czechs and Poles, and a big one:


But the fact that all sorts of Viasat-Histori, Auski and Stepanek are trying to rewrite history is no longer surprising.

[Zynaps]

on this topic. I find it unbearably beautiful:

1) stories about Czech resistance, indistinguishable even in a strong microscope. the most striking episode is an attempt on Heydrich. read here: http://www.vilavi.ru/prot/111206/111206-1.shtml (follow the links there - additional fine in quantities)

as a lyrical digression. on the 60th anniversary of the Victory on RTR showed an interesting film, which showed a veteran, a former resident of the GRU in Prague. the fighting old man was cheerful and showed clarity of thought. And so, he was insistently ordered from Moscow not to get involved in any Czech partisan and underground activities, for the SD and the Abwehr's control over the "resistance" was total. in particular, the former resident reported that only in the Czech Republic, even among local communists, the number of traitors went off scale: the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia was handed over with giblets five times - an absolute record among all resistances in general!

2) the illustrated story of Murza "On the first and last feat of the Vlasovites" is a must-read. I personally watched how the reading of this masterpiece of opus caused cramps and non-illusory butthert among the Vasyukov fighters for the idea: http://actualhistory.ru/82

[aldashckin2012]

All selling point is playing

[galaktika]

I do not agree about the rotten insides of the Ukrainians, but it was, but not more than everyone else, the Russian soldier fought and won it always, maybe he didn't really want to liberate our soldiers and Europe, he just beat everyone to reach that evil point to Berlin and saved the poor unfortunate people of the Czech Republic, but the Yugoslavs did not perform demonstrative performances, although they were also in a position of back to front, fought first themselves later with the partisans of Belarus and Ukraine. Another surprise is how much we are RUSSIAN forgiving and tolerant and we want to see friends even in those who were enemies except for the Vlasovites, of course the Russian Russian will not forgive, but with the ease of a Czech Serb, a Bulgarian, etc. The article is correct truth in a somewhat unusual form, the essence is that the Czechs do not care who "liberates" if only they are less affected by this and the writing of history on their part. I adore the RUSSIAN SOLDIER and I am proud that I am a Russian-Ukrainian and live in my beloved country and served it and my children serve her.

[Karlsonn]

galaktika

Quote: galaktika

I do not agree about the rotten gut of Ukrainians

it's dirty attempts to disconnect us.

Quote: galaktika

but the Yugoslavs didn’t make demonstrations, although they were also in a position to whom back and forth, they first fought themselves later with the partisans of Belarus and Ukraine.

as far as I know - the only partisan movement in Europe was only in Yugoslavia, Poland does not count.

Quote: galaktika

Surprisingly different as far as we RUSSIAN all-forgiving and tolerant

Yeah, for example, to the Bulgarians, brother traitors.

Quote: galaktika

.Worship the RUSSIAN SOLDIER

this is the only correct position in life.

Quote: galaktika

and I'm proud that I am Russian-Ukrainian and live in my beloved country

I don’t want to offend anyone, but there are Russians! and every division is supposed to be: Ukrainians, Belorussians, Krivichis, wretch --- this is from the evil one.

[Chamber No. 6]

Chet, boyars, you were carried in the wrong direction - "Russians, Czechs, Bulgarians, Germans, Yugoslavs, Poles"!
This is not necessary, okay?
The essence of the article is completely different: the author (for which he has a renegade and scream !!!) is trying to resist the attempt (and, absolutely worthless, but, more on that, below) to rewrite history once again. We will not specify the customer of this feverish delirium issued on Mount Histori, this is already clear ...
Personally, I was extremely touched by the situation described by History, when parts of the Wehrmacht and Roa were leaving Prague! The guys from Waffen-ss are coming along with the Vlasovites and hotly discussing the details of the recent mahach during the capture of the airfield!
Our head doctor is a great lover of such compositions, we must show him!

[Karlsonn]

Chamber No. 6

Quote: Ward # 6

Our head doctor is a great lover of such compositions, we must show him!

it’s high time for the editorial staff of the History Channel to drop a couple of regiments of punitive doctors - paratroopers, with the support of aviation, to stop misunderstandings.

[Kaa]

Quote: Karlsonn

it's time to throw a couple of regiments of punitive doctors

... armed to the teeth with chlorpromazine ...

[Karlsonn]

Yes sir!
Halted span also does not hurt.

[haron]

Ideally, droperidol + fentanyl followed by spinal anesthesia in the t2-t4 region.
It’s just that you need to bring the vessel constantly ... isn’t it easier C2N5ON Quantum Satis.

[Karlsonn]

haron

and to hell with all this chemistry, better proven grandfather method

[Kaa]

Quote: haron

Is C2H5ON Quantum Satis simpler?

Hopper, the protein will come, again back to chlorpromazine or haloperidol ....

[evgenm55]

For a long time I argued with one ardent self-styled man. He proved everything to me that Ukraine and Ukrainians are a special independent country and nation. I ask: who is Taras Bulba by nationality? The answer is Ukrainian. I open Gogol to him, where Taras says that he is RUSSIAN and LAND RUSSIAN - his eyes went up to his forehead. He never read a book. He is trying to prove that the language is Ukrainian. I heard him, the dialect and dialects of one language and one people? Silence. I decided to finish off, I ask how on the yatski KOT, answers-KIT, I ask: then how on the yatski KIT? You should have seen his face ... It is advantageous for the enemies to divide a single people, set brother against brother. Divide and Conquer

[mamba]

Quote: galaktika

It is surprising how much we RUSSIANs are all-forgiving and tolerant, and we want to see friends even in those who were the enemy, except for the Vlasovites, of course the Russian Russian will not be easy, but the ease of the Czech Serb Bulgarian, etc.

In Soviet questionnaires and in personal affairs there was an indispensable item about the presence of relatives in the occupied territory during the Second World War. This was considered an indelible spot on the biography. And if they also worked for the Germans, at least as a cleaner or janitor, because there was nothing to live for, then they would go to the Gulag, and a turn to the unsuccessful applicant from the gates would be a turn.

[Karlsonn]

mamba

I have a bunch of relatives living in the occupied territory, most of them died, some partisans, some help partisans, no one cooperated with the enemy, despite the severity of life in the occupation; the grandfather was surrounded twice - went through the Special Department, there were no complaints against him - he didn’t throw out documents, didn’t throw weapons (although according to his stories he both pulled a staff without cartridges, fought and broke through using a trophy); on the fate of their descendants, the fact of the presence in the biography of family members of the former in the occupation had no effect.

Quote: mamba

This was considered an indelible spot on the biography.

tales, I wrote to you that I have a grandfather - the NKVD personnel officer married the exiled from Ukraine - this fact did not affect his career.

Quote: mamba

then to them - to the Gulag, and to the unsuccessful applicant - from the gate - a turn.

tales of the Viennese forest.

[buruntuz]

"... my grandfather is a career NKVD officer ..."

Your grandfather did not say anything about the Butovo training ground?

[Karlsonn]

buruntuz

Quote: buruntuz

Your grandfather did not say anything about the Butovo training ground?

no, he didn’t tell, tens of thousands of NKVD personnel officers will not tell about him, for example, thousands of border guard officers who died in the first days of the war, they, like my grandfather, were NKVD officers.

[Alex]

Quote: mamba

And if they also worked for the Germans, at least as a cleaner or janitor, because there was nothing to live for, then they would go to the Gulag, and a turn-off to the unsuccessful applicant from the gates.

Just do not need it so categorically, but something smacks of agitprop. My cousin's uncle, his father, under the Germans, served as an agronomist in an agricultural cartel (converted collective farm). After our arrival he was arrested, tried, received only 10 years. He returned, worked on a collective farm, even received a pension. And his son graduated from Kiev University, defended his thesis, and always wrote the truth about his father in the questionnaire.

Not everything is simple in the world, friend ...

[buruntuz]

and you don’t bow before the BELARUSIAN partisan? And before the great submariner Marinescu (MOLDOVAN) do you admire? And before the great commander Rokossovsky (POLAND) you do not bow? Do you admire the author of the double ram Stepanyan (ARMENIAN)? Regarding Mustachioed GEORGIAN with a pipe and I do not ask ... og

[Karlsonn]

buruntuz

if you contact me:

Quote: buruntuz

and you don’t bow before the BELARUSIAN partisan?

What did you mean by that? I have several ancestors of Belarusians — partisans died, great-grandfather — Belarusians were shot for helping partisans.

Quote: buruntuz

And before the great submariner Marinescu (MOLDOVAN) do you admire? And before the great commander Rokossovsky (POLAND) you do not bow? Do you admire the author of the double ram Stepanyan (ARMENIAN)?

I bow to all Soviet people who fought with the enemy; nationality doesn't matter to me.
You do not go nuts in the attack, by chance?

Quote: buruntuz

Regarding Mustachioed GEORGIAN with a pipe and I do not ask ... og

do not, do not ask, do not disgrace.
Regards Karlsonn

[wasjasibirjac]

and they were all RUSSIAN

[uizik]

I agree. Politicians assholes need to tear on the German signs. Everyone pulls for themselves. And the people are suffering.

[Corneli]

Quote: haron

And at the expense of rotten insides, Ukrainians would be better silent.

You know, uncle, you would be silent for a moment! I am Ukrainian. And in my war every second relative died (guess who and for what and with whom they fought!) So shut your mouth! Let us now not be the USSR and type of independence and so on, but we are NOT Czechs and NOT Poles (brothers Slavs of the Epoclast). And Ukrainian blood in the Great Patriotic War was shed, I don’t even want to think how much

[Alex]

Quote: haron

And at the expense of rotten insides, Ukrainians would be better silent.

Thanks for the rudeness, I am also Ukrainian ...

And further. If you are really rude, then at least do it competently: the word "Ukrainians" is correctly spelled "Ukrainians". To me, too, a victim of education reform.

[webdog]

I liked the article ...
and in fact, humor is present)))

[igor.borov775]

The Polish uprising of 44g had just been shown on this channel, I was surprised to learn that it was organized by Stalin, it was said there about the ARDEN, it’s a pity the KARS didn’t hear the military historians of our friends, They were really beaten by 2 tank divisions and 250 thousand infantry, and they were able to collect the fists about 850 cars and the Allies were tearing hard from the German border not weakly, Yes, only the tanks became fuel for two - one refueling, Yes, and the weather improved and the aircraft went into action, the Germans could only put about 330 aircraft against the Armada, the Yankees dropped about 200 Germans and took up tanks that began to go back, Yankee losses of about 120 thousand Germans 180 thousand, 70 thousand prisoners,

[Karlsonn]

igor.borov775
and in fact, where did Kars stockpile? !!!

[Gamdlislyam]

The affliction and the article is written in a somewhat sarcastic tone, but essentially true. To the author plus.

And the one who put a minus to a respected colleague Vladimir, it seems, did not even bother to read the article. And this is already worthless.

[GOLUBENKO]

Channel "History" Anglo-Saxon, well, what is there to be surprised. Geyrope should not worry about the past, but about the present and the future, because Eurostan will be to the west of us. After all, stoned gay and lesbians cannot reproduce, and the Turks breed in dozens with them.
The ROA was in charge of the Czechs guaranteed that the Americans would take Prague "the men are 70 km away" and they let them try to bake a loaf to meet the "liberators", but the Vlasovites did not know what the allies had agreed on in Yalta, so they got to the full like a device in the washstand. road to bastards.

[подводник]

Anglo-Saxons rewrite history for themselves in order to hide their crimes (Munich Conspiracy ... etc.), and blame the USSR for all conceivable and unimaginable sins together with Stalin (not even Germany and Hitler)

[Fox]

Roman, you're wrong. the Czechs fought the Germans throughout the war, creating weapons for them that would flood the Germans with this weapon! one Skoda did as much as the whole of England. and the shtets and hatters who burned secular tanks ... the Czechs, holy simplicity, did not know that .. .But then, when they realized, they shot Germans captive in batches ... Czech heroes, their mother, parasites.

[22rus]

Quote: Fox

Czechs fought the Germans throughout the war

No need la-la ... The Czechs were not called up to the Wehrmacht, and even more so as independent parts.

[pioneer]

Just the Czechs were called to the Wehrmacht. And then where did the Czechoslovak brigade come from. And in France, among the allies captured by the Allies, there were more than necessary Czechs ..

[22rus]

Quote: pioneer

Just the Czechs in the Wehrmacht called

Pioneer, teach materiel, you will be a Komsomol member

Quote: pioneer

then where did the Czechoslovak brigade come from

All Czechoslovak brigades were in the Soviet army

[knn54]

And the Poles were FORCIDED to the Wehrmacht, but in the ranks of the Nazi army there were about 500000.
The Polish army of Berlin rescued. And the Russian helped them, now and even comes to that.

[подводник]

And where did we dig these ???
It was not possible to increase the number of captured Czechs during the years of the war: 69977 people!

[22rus]

Quote: submariner

And where did we dig these ???
It was not possible to increase the number of captured Czechs during the years of the war: 69977 people!

Go teach the primer with the Pioneer.
These are not Czechs, but mostly Slovaks.

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

These are not Czechs, but mostly Slovaks.

link to the studio!

[Fox]

submariner, there are still Jews "destroyed by Adolf" ... 10173 cut pieces ...

[подводник]

Exactly !!!
I was not surprised even by gypsies and mongloam !!!
But the Jews !!!
It's simple?????????????

[Karlsonn]

подводник

Do you want to take off a couple of pictures?

[подводник]

Yes of course !!!! I look forward to !!!

[Karlsonn]

подводник

in principle, this is not some big secret, but here:

[Karlsonn]

well, we will not touch Heydrich and Hollander .

[подводник]

This is just unbelievable !!!!

[illarion]

Enlighten, and where among the prisoners 10173 Jews? Where did they get them? Have they really fought for the Germans?

[Karlsonn]

illarion

Quote: illarion

Enlighten, and where from among the prisoners 10173 Jews?

ideology, ideology, and reality is a completely different matter when the first Jewish prisoners captured near Moscow were reported to Stalin, he experienced a cognitive dissonance - on the one hand, they report on the total extermination of Jews in the occupied territory of the USSR, on the other, about these prisoners.

Quote: illarion

Where did they get them?

In the summer of 2002, the world saw the fruits of this asceticism: 30-year-old Brian Mark Rigg published his final work, "Jewish soldiers of Hitler: the untold story of Nazi racial laws and people of Jewish descent in the German army."
Brian, an evangelical Christian (like President Bush), a native of the Texas biblical belt’s labor family, Israel Defense Forces volunteer and US Marine officer, suddenly became interested in his past.
Why, one of his ancestors served in the Wehrmacht, and the other died in Auschwitz?
Behind Rigg was studying at Yale, a grant from Cambridge, 400 interviews with Wehrmacht veterans, 500 hours of testimony, 3 thousands of photos and 30 thousands of pages of memoirs of Nazi soldiers and officers - those people whose Jewish roots allow them to repatriate to Israel even tomorrow .
Rigg’s calculations and conclusions sound quite sensational: in the German army, on the fronts of World War II, up to 150 thousands of soldiers who had Jewish parents or grandparents fought.
The term "Mishling" in the Reich called people born from mixed marriages between Aryans and non-Aryans.
The racial laws of 1935 of the year distinguished the Mishling of the first degree (one of the parents is a Jew) and the second degree (grandparents are Jews).
Despite the legal "corruption" of people with Jewish genes and, despite the crackling propaganda, tens of thousands of Mishling lived quietly under the Nazis.
They were routinely drafted into the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, becoming not only soldiers, but also part of the generals, at the level of commanders of regiments, divisions and armies.
Hundreds of Mishling were awarded Iron Crosses for their courage. Twenty soldiers and officers of Jewish origin were awarded the highest military award of the Third Reich - the Knight's Cross.
Wehrmacht veterans complained to Rigg that the authorities were reluctant to introduce them to the orders and were attracted with advancement in rank, mindful of their Jewish ancestors.

google the title of the book “Jewish soldiers of Hitler: the untold story of Nazi racial laws and people of Jewish descent in the German army.

[mamba]

Quote: Karlsonn

up to 150 thousands of soldiers who had Jewish parents or grandparents fought in the German army on the fronts of World War II.
Despite the legal "corruption" of people with Jewish genes and, despite the crackling propaganda, tens of thousands of Mishling lived quietly under the Nazis.

We can add that the relatives of the Jews who fought against us, the Nazis provided guarantees of immunity.

Quote: Karlsonn

They were routinely drafted into the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, becoming not only soldiers, but also part of the generals, at the level of commanders of regiments, divisions and armies.

Such a Holocaust turns out.

[Karlsonn]

mamba

Quote: mamba

We can add that the relatives of the Jews who fought against us, the Nazis provided guarantees of immunity.

it was in the adopted program of the "final Jewish question"
and the following moment was also taken:
... It was the chief of the RSHA that held the Wannsee Conference in January 1942 to discuss the "final solution to the Jewish question." Heydrich's report clearly states that the grandchildren of a Jew are considered Germans and not subject to repression ...

Quote: mamba

Such a Holocaust turns out.

the presence of people of Jewish origin in the Reich’s troops does not cancel the fact of the Holocaust and does not reduce the number of Jews killed, it’s just another proof of the schizophrenia of European thinking.

[buruntuz]

"... This is a kind of holocaust."

what does it have to do with it? The aforementioned "Jewish" soldiers who fought in the Wehrmacht (with an admixture of Jewish blood) fought not for some kind of Israel or other Zionist tricks, but specifically for the interests of the German Reich, right? After all, you don't call the Great Patriotic War a Civil War just because thousands of Russian soldiers fought against the Soviet troops in the Vlasov army, right?

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

No need la la ... Czechs were not called up to the Wehrmacht

do not la-la Czechs were called from the Sudetenland, which had left the Germans under the Munich Agreement.
If you do not know something, this does not mean that this was not.

[22rus]

Quote: Karlsonn

do not la-la Czechs were called from the Sudetenland, which had left the Germans under the Munich Agreement.
If you do not know something, this does not mean that this was not.

Ethnic Germans lived in the Sudetenland, and they were called up to the Wehrmacht. And Czechs, if they took, then for secondary work, as engineers. Type of specialists.

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

Ethnic Germans lived in the Sudetenland.

and Czechs, Czechs lived there? were mixed marriages?

Quote: 22rus

So they were called to the Wehrmacht.

Yeah, you finally know how and who they called in the Reich in 44-45 years?

Quote: 22rus

And Czechs, if they took, then for secondary work, as engineers. Type of specialists.

my friend you are again nonsense, by the end of the war they even put prisoners from the counter-camps as volunteers, of course, please explain to me Brilliant you ours, as it turns out in your head: - Germans rowed and Tatars, and Indians and biologically inferior Russians , Ukrainians, Belarusians, but the Czechs basically did not take on service in the Wehrmacht?
Minor work? Yes, even a chef-cook, once put on a Wehrmacht uniform and swore an oath to Hitler means - a soldier.

[22rus]

Quote: Karlsonn

Yeah, you finally know how and who they called in the Reich in 44-45 years?

Of course not.
And you, once in the know, share. Quote document. Not an isolated example, such as "such and such a Czech in the photo. In German uniform.", But an order such as "Mobilization of the inhabitants of the German protectorate Czech Republic and Moravia of such and such years of birth."
And the signature of the Reich Protector Konstantin von Neurat.
You will find - I will accept my wrong. But no - so be ..... you yourself know who.

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

And you, once in the know, share. Quote-Doc.

now I can’t, and I don’t want to educate you and to prove anything to you, believe at least in Cthulhu - it makes no difference to me.

Quote: 22rus

You will find - I will accept my wrong.

Yes, I do not care about confessions, especially yours - I will calmly continue my work day, the fact that someone on the Internet is wrong, from my point of view, does not affect me.
If you don’t know something, it’s your misfortune, take books and study this issue yourself, I didn’t engage in eliminating your ignorance.

Quote: 22rus

But no - so be ..... you yourself know who.

Yes, even call a pot, the main thing is not to pop into the oven. I have long gone out of the age when I was worried about who and what thinks of me and what they call me, calling in person there will be one reaction, calling in the Internet another - that's all.
Regards Karlsonn

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

The Czechs were not called up to the Wehrmacht, and even more so as independent parts.

FOUND!

Czech SS volunteer company “St. Wenceslas” (German SS-Freiwillige St. Wenzels-Rotte, Czech. Svatováclavská dobrovolnická rota ZZ - SDR) is a Czech collaborative SS military unit that participated in the final part of World War II.

sleeve patch option.

so what 22rus who will I be?

[22rus]

Quote: Karlsonn

FOUND!

Firstly, nothing was called for by the Czechs in the Wehrmacht. And this is understandable, because such in nature was not.
Secondly, with regards to "St. Wenceslas".
Well, the right to make a bunch of fascist scumbags from the Czechs ridiculous is an independent military unit. The concept of a military unit generally begins with a regiment. And then the company .... And what kind of company is that?
As many as 77 (seventy seven) people.

Quote: Karlsonn

so what 22rus who will I be?

Think for yourself ....

[подводник]

22rus
Well, can you then be called a man ???
Karlsonn said and did ...
And you act like the last .... (add in meaning)

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

And this is understandable, because such in nature was not.

only in your head, but this fact does not cancel reality.

Quote: 22rus

Well, the right to make a bunch of fascist scumbags from the Czechs ridiculous is an independent military unit.

that is, they were not an independent part ? I sincerely sympathize with the teacher who taught you the multiplication table , You ask for a fact, and when you provide it to you, you say that you should not pay attention to it, and indeed it is not significant.

Quote: 22rus

The concept of a military unit generally begins with a regiment. And then the company ...

Dear friend, I will not ask you - do you serve? this is already understandable as a person of purely civilian education:
- .... the concept of "military unit" includes the concepts of "regiment", "separate battalion" and "separate company" ...

To be honest, today I’m already bored with talking to you .
Have a good evening, goodbye.
Regards Karlsonn

[Kaa]

Quote: 22rus

nothing was called for by the Czechs in the Wehrmacht

" Currently, 300 veterans of the Nazi Wehrmacht live in the Czech Republic. The story of one of them, the 100-year-old Karel Sladek, was told on May 8 by Czech magazine Týden. The cadre military of the Czechoslovak army was enlisted in the Wehrmacht after the Munich Agreement of 1938, which annexed its hometown of Šineřovic to the Third Reich. As part of the Nazi troops, Sladek participated in military campaigns in Poland and France. Near Moscow in 1941, he barely blew his legs, receiving six bullets in different parts of the body. And with the “Russian gifts” he lived to see his centenary. Sladek was captured in Soviet captivity in Breslau, Poland (now Wroclaw) in 1944. He returned to his native town only on Christmas Eve in 1949. Of the five hundred of his fellow countrymen in Soviet captivity, 352 people died from bullying and starvation.
Historians of the Gluchinsky district found that the Nazi troops consisted of 12 thousand local residents. During the period of socialism, this was not accepted. But times are changing. Historians turned to local residents to collect information about the nameless soldiers of the Reich, and already found 9 thousand names. Relatives who previously feared to admit that their loved ones fought for the Wehrmacht helped to find them. And the mayor of Kravarge, in the Gluchinsky district, even concluded an agreement in 2010 with Volgograd on mutual care for military graves. The Gluchinsky region has an excuse for local collaboration, since the region has long been considered "German." And after joining all the military of Czechoslovakia automatically received the status of German civil servants.
True, it cannot be said that only the “Gluchinsky” bonded poor fellows fought on the Eastern Front. According to the data available in the Russian archives, 69.971 Czechs and Slovaks were in Soviet captivity. The question is, when, after Gluchin, do the others recognize the fascist past? Indeed, to 70 thousand prisoners it is necessary to add those who fell for a wrong cause near Stalingrad and in other places, and not only in the USSR, but also in France and Poland. So far, only the mayor of Kravař recognized the Czech graves of Hitler’s warriors in Russia!
Our 100-year-old Wehrmacht veteran in Soviet captivity did not like it. Indeed, out of almost 70 thousand captured Czechs and Slovaks in the camps, 4.023 people died, and the rest returned home. It should be noted that this is not the highest mortality rate among prisoners of war in Soviet camps. According to the Charter of the Red Army of those times, enemy prisoners of war were equated with soldiers of the rear units and from this calculation received food rations, which, of course, were less than that of Soviet soldiers at the front, but higher than that of civilians. Of course, the Czechs, accustomed to German contentment, starved and died in Soviet captivity. On the other hand, no one called them to the USSR; they themselves came.
But why is nobody looking for the graves of prisoners of war Czechs? Note that German and Japanese historians walked almost all of the Urals and Siberia, looked through all the archives, gave their Russian colleagues good money, as they say, “on the bones”, generously paying for every information about unknown graves! And the Czechs are silent. Maybe money is a pity?http://www.prague-express.cz/more-news/9910-the-czechs-and-the-wehrmacht.html
READ THE CZECH PRESS!

[haron]

Quote: Fox

who burned secular tanks ... Czechs, holy simplicity, did not know this ...

Please draw a scenario of how the Czechs could NOT do things, etc. when in fact the factories were run by the Germans, the engineering and artisan personnel were mainly either Germans or local Judas ... Can you imagine what it is to say that: I will not turn this "nut" because it will shoot at the USSR tank.

With such success, blame the prisoners of the concentration camp for doing something there or digging or building for the Germans. Read what the Protectorate of Bohemia is and what kind of power self-government had. Imagine the Czech Republic completely unlike the Belarusian Polesie and people who still have something to lose because you can’t drag families into the forest ...
And if they didn’t succeed in May of the 45th, what can we say about earlier.

[подводник]

Well, how can you compare here !!!! - European urban civilized Czech Republic and the musty rural underdeveloped Belarus ...
Who is more valuable for civilization-highly educated and cultured Czechs or semi-literate Belarusians
What they were dumped in their swamp or in the forest and there are birch bark and frogs
But the Czechs have to work after all (what difference does it make for whom and why) to drink beer, live in peace ... of course how can they be compared ...

[22rus]

Quote: submariner

But the Czechs have to work

The Czechs had to survive in a meat grinder. History has shown that they made the right choice.
But you need blood and sacrifice. Preferably multi-million.

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

History has shown that they made the right choice.

yeah, at the expense of other nations. Someone survived in a meat grinder, creating weapons that killed millions and you say that history has shown the correctness of this? What is happening in YOUR head, God forgive me?
Are there any fallen among relatives?

Quote: 22rus

But you need blood and sacrifice. Preferably multi-million.

oh well just like a little stop attributing your thoughts to others.

[22rus]

quote = Karlsonn] at the expense of other nations. [/ quote]
This is the right of any nation and not for us to judge them. in it question.
Moreover, those who swore allied friendship and mutual assistance simply threw the Czechs and left face to face with the aggressor. And what, under these conditions, it was necessary to make your nation a beautiful sacrifice? Survived the war, albeit ugly (from our point of view) - well, okay. Country, people have been saved, what else is needed? And for obvious reasons, they recall May 8 in a different way than we do.

The Britons were also delighted when Hitler started the war against the USSR, and squealed with joy when the States were drawn into the carnage. The British did not really want to be the only ones on the distribution. They really wanted to share this "pie" with others.
And what, we will also record them in a bastard?

[quote = Karlsonn] Is there a fallen among relatives? [/ quote]
But is this a very important condition for the correct understanding of what happened?

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

This is the right of any nation and it is not for us to judge them in this matter.

No, just we have the right to judge! If the Czechs, to save their nation, made weapons for the Germans that killed our ancestors, I do not care about their motives - they are accomplices of the enemy.

Quote: 22rus

Moreover, those who swore allied friendship and mutual assistance simply threw the Czechs and left face to face with the aggressor.

Who are you talking about?

Quote: 22rus

And what, under these conditions, it was necessary to make your nation a beautiful sacrifice?

yeah, when you will be raped in the gateway, relax and have fun.

Quote: 22rus

Survived the war, albeit ugly (from our point of view) - well, okay. Country, people have been saved, what else is needed?

UGLY? What can you say about the bodies of our tankers who were burned alive, who were burned from cannons and tanks built in Czech factories?
Have people been saved? and ours, our people, how? You are our objective, for which you do not love your homeland?

Quote: 22rus

And for obvious reasons, they remember 8 in May differently than we do.

Of course, according to understandable ones, we won, and they were accomplices of the Germans.

Quote: 22rus

And what, we will also record them in a bastard?

the Britons were our allies and, at the very least, fought, and their sailors from the PQ convoys showed miracles of heroism.

Quote: 22rus

But is this a very important condition for the correct understanding of what happened?

if you have no family members who died in the war, then your cynicism in the reasoning, which you take for objectivity, is clear.

[Nagaibak]

22rus "Is this a very important condition for the correct understanding of what happened?" - Of course, what did you think? If you don't think so, then this explains a lot in your posts. First of all, your cynicism.

[Setrac]

Dear 22rus, everyone who reads right away puts a plus and you have a minus, you know, a prostitute also needs to survive somehow, this does not justify them.

[galaktika]

sorry sir yes you are a decent bastard

[pioneer]

My dear friend, read the memoirs, books of the series "War Adventures" as there were prisoners of war sabotaged production. If you want to harm an adversary, you can always figure out how to do it without getting caught. Russian proverb - Gol for invention is cunning. And there are plenty of mountains and forests in the Czech Republic. Whoever wanted to act.

[Igor]

Quote: haron

Please draw a scenario as the Czechs could NOT do stuff, etc. when in fact the factories were led by the Germans

It's simple! We had to blow up this plant.

Quote: haron

Imagine the Czech Republic completely unlike the Belarusian Polesie and people who still have something to lose because you can’t drag families into the forest ...

Partisans never took their families with them (maybe of course there have been cases, but this is an exception to the rule).

[Karlsonn]

Igor

Quote: Igorek

Partisans never took their families with them (maybe of course there have been cases, but this is an exception to the rule).

the main reason here was that the partisans were starving themselves, they could not physically feed civilians. My great-grandfather was shot at 1942 in the Gomel region for helping partisans.

... In the republic, 5 thousand 295 settlements were destroyed, including 628 settlements along with the population. They were burned to the ground, only chimneys remained. 186 villages could not be reborn from ruins and ashes, as they were destroyed with all the inhabitants, including mothers and babies, feeble old people and disabled people.

The total death toll in Belarus at the hands of the invaders is over 2 million 200 thousand people. 399 thousand 374 people were taken to forced labor in Germany, of which only 124 thousand 267 people returned to their homeland.

During the years of occupation, the Nazis carried out large punitive operations on the territory of Belarus 140, during which entire areas turned into dead space. Particularly brutal measures were accompanied by punitive operations in the Vitebsk, Minsk and Mogilev regions ...

more details here:
http://pda.sb.by/post/86102/

[Kaa]

Quote: haron

in fact, the factories were run by the Germans, the engineering and craftsmen mainly or the Germans or local Jews.

Until March 15, 1939, Czech industry, especially heavy, worked barely a quarter of its potential - orders for its products were too small and episodic. But entry into the Reich breathed new strength into all Czech plants - Orders rained down, as if from a cornucopia. Already in the course of the Polish company, the Wehrmacht used a whole tank CASE equipped with the latest Czech LT-38 tanks. only on March 31, 1944 at the disposal of the Führer from the shops of 857 plants of the previously merged Czech Republic 13 billion 866 million brands of weapons and equipment.“The CKD factories (which became VMM after the Protectorate became part of the Reich) in the years 1939-1942 produced 38 LT-1480 tanks. When this tank is hopelessly outdated, the plant’s specialists INITIATIVE ORDER took up its conversion to an anti-tank self-propelled guns. As you can see Czechs worked in Stakhanov style on the Third Reich until its very end. With fiction, initiative and a twinkle. Neither the bombing of the Allies nor the Germans' lack of 75-mm PaK 39/2 cannons made in Germany interfered with them. To replace them, initiative Czech specialists instantly offered their StuK 40, their own production. Czech hands collected a quarter of all tanks, 26 percent of trucks and 40 percent of small arms of the German army. As for Czech labor productivity, it was not inferior to that of German workers. Interestingly, the main workshops of the Prague military factories rose only on May 5, 1945. In the selective memory of the Czechs, a half-kilometer ambulance train somehow didn’t “set aside” - "The gift of the Czech people to the warring Reich." Forgotten parcels with warm knitted mittens - “from mothers” to the Stalingrad “cauldron”, and friendly Nazi greetings from classy Czech workers, production leaders sent to health camps for hard work for the victory of German weapons, created by their skillful hands ... which kills Russians, Poles, Jews, Americans and British ... "bonded laborers" punctually reported to Berlin already defeated by the Red Army about the early fulfillment of their obligations to the Nazis. Russian white emigrant B. Tikhonovich recalled: “The Czechs were incredibly rich in Jews in the years 1939-1945. They "deposited" Jewish jewels, paintings, property, and then wrote denunciations to former friends. There was a saying: "They (that is, Jews) will never come back from there anyway." Madeleine Albright, US Secretary of State under Bill Clinton, still has not returned the paintings belonging to her family and stolen by two Czech sisters from Prague. On September 17, 1939, Lt. Col. Ludwig Liberty took his battalion to the Soviet Union, formed from those Czechs who decided to fight with the Germans. And there were them - TOTAL 300 PEOPLE ... http: //govorilkin.livejournal.com/524582.html

[haron]

KAA

Quote: Kaa

Ludwig Liberty withdrew to the Soviet Union his battalion, formed from those Czechs who decided to fight the Germans. And there were them - TOTAL 300 PEOPLE

Well, I agree, you brought the facts of how the Czechs cooperated with the defeated side, there is a sea of ​​facts of the opposite content, but it did not reach the plant’s demolition. And what from this???
Point to all Czechs with your finger and say - you are our corrupt Slavs, rot from you ... well, etc. in general, shame on you and censure.
You are not a couple to us, not a couple ....

[подводник]

haron
Why are you redoing ???
We are discussing what happened !!!

[haron]

[quote = submariner] We discuss what happened !!! [/ quote]
It would be ideal, namely to discuss what was - as it was, the possible causes of actions and events ... that is, as described in the article.

I categorically do not accept instant peremptory labeling like: [quote =] show rotten gut of Europeans. [/ quote]
[quoteAnd even consist in one block opposing the wild Russian hordes from the east .... [/ quote]
Here you (Europeans) blame us Russians for everything, demand from us some kind of repentance for some sins (for allegedly unleashed war, for allegedly communist occupation), the Poles so come to shit at any mention of Russians .. [/ quote]
[quote that he stupidly saved his worthless skin, and yet he had to die in a foreign land [/ Quote]

That is, like Sharykovsky - take and share !!! What is there to think !?

[подводник]

We are not moving away from reality into pink fantasies, we firmly know that the NATO bloc is against us, the missiles and radars that amers now deploy in the countries of the former Warsaw Treaty are against us !!!

And God forbid that something happens .... answer me now, against whom will the economy of your country work ????

[haron]

Quote: submariner

And God forbid that something happens .... answer me now, against whom will the economy of your country work ????

Against who will be against: me, my parents, my children and the children of my children.

[подводник]

I don't need anything else from you ... I hope I or my descendants will not have to "free" you again

[Alex]

Quote: haron

Against who will be against: me, my parents, my children and the children of my children.

Do not entertain yourself with thoughts of your influence on geopolitics! Against whom Uncle Sem orders, against those you will fight. As Hitler did not ask you. Yes, however, you don’t need to specify such corrupt nations like yours, always lick the anus to the one who is stronger, but with pleasure betray, and even rob him when he stumbles.

[Alex]

Quote: haron

Well, I agree, you brought the facts of how the Czechs collaborated with the defeated side, there is a sea of ​​facts of the opposite content

I don’t remember those. But the fact that even in Soviet times of "friendship of peoples" had to be very hard to look for evidence of "resistance" of the Czechs, so yes. Even the attempt on Heydrich's life in the film "Sokolovo" was attributed to local underground workers - for lack of another ...

[synodontis]

Quote KAA
"Ludwig Svoboda took his battalion to the Soviet Union, formed from those Czechs who decided to fight the Germans. And there were only 300 of them ..."
Ludwig of Liberty fought mainly Rus. Ruthenians live in several countries, including Ukraine (western). Consider themselves Russian. Before the unification of the Orthodox Church, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad was Ruthenian.

[Gregazov]

Well yes . You are of course right in many ways. And in the occupied territory of Russia and Yugoslavia, France, probably the guerrilla war was fought by the landing units abandoned behind enemy lines. Established military intelligence officers territorially united in the so-called underground, etc. One must have the conscience of Judah in order to draw conclusions about the impossibility of resistance in the Czech Republic.

[Zynaps]

in France, fewer people fought in the Resistance than on the side of the Germans. just over 30 thousand people. if you look at the national composition of the "poppies", the picture is very interesting. Russian and Yugoslav emigrants, Soviet prisoners of war, Jews and, in general, a lot of non-Frenchmen. on the other hand, a significant part of the French armed forces fell under the Germans, and the police and special services were practically in full force. actually, the same situation was in Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Holland. in all sorts of Waffen SS "Viking", "Nederland", "Wallonia", "Nordland" many more people fought than among the partisans and underground fighters. a dull medical fact.

By the way, you quite rightly noticed that in France the abandoned airborne units were fighting. the British from planes scattered "stans" and explosives over northern France. to make it easier for the occupied French to fight. but the process went on without a spark. then the British began to throw instructors and organizers of the underground struggle. and again not very successful. read at least about the failure of Prospero's underground network. Well this is necessary - with one blow to destroy almost the entire network of resistance forces, which the British in France had been preparing for a long time and with great difficulty ...

or else I read some notes from an English tank officer who landed on D-Day in Normandy. well, very interesting observations. It turns out that the population of Normandy did not consider them liberators at all - under the Germans, some restless guests from across the strait who offended the Germans and forced the French to fight, it turns out, nobody called and cursed with their last words.

[haron]

Quote: GregAzov

One must have the conscience of Judah in order to draw conclusions about the impossibility of resistance in the Czech Republic.

Listen dear, if there was no resistance in such a form, as you would like to see it, then it could not be (read Tolstoy's "war and peace").
How easy it is for you to hang the "Judas" sign on your conscience. And the people who signed the Munich agreement were not Judas, and why shouldn't the Czechs then release weapons that shoot at these Judas.

Let me distort.
Call Judas Comrade Grabina (or someone else there from those who were pre-trial to art production) for the following reasons.
The art systems he created were just wonderful, and most of the captured ZIS-3 and ala with them (F-22, A-19, PTRS, ... and many, many, many ... served faithfully to the Wehrmacht.

[Alex]

haron
Evo-on how!

Let me distort.
Call Judas Comrade Grabina (or someone else there from those who were pre-trial to art production) for the following reasons.
The art systems he created were just wonderful, and most of the captured ZIS-3 and ala with them (F-22, A-19, PTRS, ... and many, many, many ... served faithfully to the Wehrmacht.

I will eat my keyboard if Grabin, Kotin, Yakovlev, Lavochkin or Ilyushin on their own initiative in GERMAN TERRITORY and for GERMAN MONEY created this weapon. And it was really wonderful, if the "Teutonic knights" used it so reverently.

But the people who signed the Munich Agreement were not Jews, and why shouldn’t the Czechs later release weapons that shoot these Judas?

And the first Judas was the President of Czechoslovakia Benes, who surrendered his country to Hitler, as a prostitute pimp for the night. But something against him, this weapon did not shoot. But it, with the fury of a hellfire, devoured the people of that country, which only offered its help to your country, even when everyone else turned away from it.

[M. Peter]

Quote: haron

Please draw a scenario of how the Czechs could NOT do things, etc. when in fact the factories were run by the Germans, the engineering and artisan personnel were mainly either Germans or local Judas ... Can you imagine what it is to say that: I will not turn this "nut" because it will shoot at the USSR tank.

With such success, blame the prisoners of the concentration camp for doing something there or digging or building for the Germans. Read what the Protectorate of Bohemia is and what kind of power self-government had. Imagine the Czech Republic completely unlike Belarusian Polesie and people who still have something to lose because you won’t drag families into the woods ... And if they didn’t succeed in May of 45, what can they say about earlier.

Lieutenant of the Red Army Alexander Pechersky, Alexander Aronovich.
He was captured near Vyazma in October 1941, when several armies were surrounded at once, and they transferred him from one camp to another until he came to Sobibor in 1943, and raised a rebellion there.

[Fox]

in 1918 you also brought democracy to Samara? how you were parasites, and remained!

[Karlsonn]

Fox

shame on my gray hairs, I forgot about the whites ,

Quote: Fox

in 1918 you also brought democracy to Samara?

if you will, not only to Samara, but to Vladivostok itself!

[haron]

Quote: Karlsonn

not only to Samara, but to Vladivostok itself!

and not only "democracy", the famous Hasek - Schweik spread "communism" from Ufa to Irkutsk.

[Karlsonn]

haron

I see no reason for irony, from Penza to Vladivostok, the Czechs robbed and killed, without them the Civil War in Russia would not have been such a total character.

[haron]

Quote: Karlsonn

I see no reason for irony,

But I see.
FROM about 600-10 million gold rubles, the Czechs "stole" about XNUMX million (of data) and with this money, according to propaganda, they built a new state - Czechoslovakia.

And since he robbed and raped Comrade steward (personally :) in penza and tambov is not discussed at all. About Bashkirs, their autonomy during the Kolchak, take a look, or something else in that motley carpet of events ... then the Czechs came and robbed everyone ... for thousands of years no one has managed to do this (except Chingiz and Yermak) and here the Czechs came

Carlson - stop looking for enemies, it's time to make friends.

[Karlsonn]

haron

Quote: haron

And since he robbed and raped Comrade steward (personally :) in penza and tambov is not discussed at all. About the Bashkirs, their autonomy during the kolchak, take a look, or something else in that motley carpet of events ...

we are about something else now.

Quote: haron

.nate Czechs came and robbed everyone ... for thousands of years no one has been able to do this (except Genghis and Yermak)

The rebellion of Czechoslovakians is one of the key moments in the Civil War.

Quote: haron

Carlson - stop looking for enemies, it's time to make friends.

I am for it!

[haron]

Quote: Karlsonn

I am for it!

with all my soul and sterile glasses.

[Karlsonn]

haron

I invite you to the capital, Russian city of Kiev , take tours of historical and hot places .

[Zynaps]

Quote: haron

And since he robbed and raped Comrade steward (personally :) in penza and tambov is not discussed at all.

I congratulate you, citizen, deceit. this is just being discussed. The site of the Tambov University has long been opened for curious people, on which two with a lighter five years ago laid out the most detailed studies of the Antonov rebellion. read - you will be pleasantly upset. there, in terms of violence and robbery, deserters and criminals more and more distinguished themselves who joined the rebellion. in those studies, there’s a lot of things that really cleans the brains of TV and folk historians.

[haron]

Quote: Zynaps

I congratulate you, citizen,

Mutually sound.
Accordingly, for all others, documents of the bank of legia have been opened a long time ago and how many and who made deposits ... maybe it will be funny for you over the secret of bank deposits? Accordingly, do not make me laugh with the "truth" of the black earth rebellion, laid out from what was left and, moreover, the side that remained.

Or were the Czechs raped and marauded there?

[Karlsonn]

haron

come to the Far East, there they will tell you in detail about the whites.

[Alex]

haron
What OUR Tukhachevsky was doing - this was given an assessment in 1937. And the fact that you compare your robbers and rapists with him is very significant. And in general, to get into internal squabbles in a foreign country, and even to feed on robbery - it is already clear what "universal" values ​​today's Europe is so concerned about. Especially in the tidbits of the world.

[Pushkar]

Quote: Fox

in 1918 you also brought democracy to Samara? how you were parasites, and remained!

And part of the gold reserves of Russia stubborn.

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Pushkar

And part of the gold reserves of Russia stubborn.

there, besides the gold reserve, they plundered so much that the head goes around.

[galaktika]

and you, to calm down, read the night of the block of Leningrad, otherwise Czechoslovakians are so miserable right now, I’m tearing the forest

[Alex]

Quote: haron

Imagine the Czech Republic completely unlike the Belarusian Polesie

Introduced.

people who still have something to lose

This is the main thing. Or is it not so scary to lose life in 20 years (Lyudmila Sechko from Novogrudok)? Or is it easier to turn into an ice pillar (Dmitry Karbyshev) than to become the leader of an army of traitors? Or is it easier to be spread out and burnt in your own open-hearth furnace (Makar Mazay) than to cook steel for German tanks?

And there is no need to interfere in one pile of concentration camp prisoners, driven to the loss of human dignity by hunger, who lived in constant expectation of irrevocable death, and well-fed and satisfied Czechs who overfulfilled their plans (note, no one asked them about this) in the name of the victory of Great Germany. And when the liberators approached (it does not matter, the Soviet army or the allies), the surviving prisoners raised an uprising in order to save their lives, while the Prague mess is only a farce akin to the one that was staged by the brave French "resistors", shaving their heads off Parisian whores in 1945.

[подводник]

They were the most devoted conquered people of the Reich ...
Salaries, bonuses, food were an order of magnitude better than that of the Germans themselves ... (a chicken carrying golden testes needs to be fed accordingly)

[22rus]

Quote: submariner

They were the most devoted conquered people of the Reich ...

They explained to you above that this war was not Czechs. Well, the nation did not want to participate in the slaughter. Therefore, they left the European carnage with relatively small losses in the soldiers and in the civilian population and in the economy.
And you, it seems, need more victims, blood, destruction and suffering ....

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

They explained to you above that this war was not Czechs. Well, the nation did not want to participate in the slaughter.

yeah, the Czechs are not seen in the slaughter either, I repeat:
- if you don’t know something, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t! Better chew, something to say the next nonsense.
---- In 1945 in Czechoslovakia there was a series of reprisals against the peaceful German population with a large number of victims among Germans
See, for example, the Bryunny death march, Ustitsky shot, Prerov shooting.

[Karlsonn]

on the picture:

Sudeten Germans and captured German soldiers are escorted by the Czechoslovak unit to the place of execution.

although I do not ignore, the fact that among the Czechs there were real patriots in the 1939 who provided armed struggle to the invaders, as an example:
- The battle for the Chayankov barracks (Czajankova kasárna) that took place in the city of Mistek (now Frýdek-Mistek) on 14 on March 1939.

[Karlsonn]

and here, before convoying, in the photo:

Sudeten Germans shot by Czechs.

[подводник]

Karlsonn
That is, if I understood correctly, they were shot after the war ??????

[Karlsonn]

подводник

yes, after the liberation of Czechoslovakia:
- The Brunj death march, which began on 31 on May 1945, is considered one of the most serious crimes in Europe from the end of World War II until the massacre in Srebrennica in 1995. Almost 27000 Germans, inhabitants of the Moravian capital (Brun is the German name for the city of Brno , approx. Tortilla), were forcibly expelled to Lower Austria, almost 5200 people it cost a life. http://rosjanie.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7137;
- Ustitsky shooting. litter for wiki http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D
1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BB;
- Пршеровский расстрел . http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D1%88%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0
%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BB.

it is historically more profitable to fight with prisoners and civilians, as 22rus said.

[подводник]

Karlsonn
I can’t pick up literary words to express my opinion on these tragic events ...
Czechs ... well, tell me something !!!!!


Thanks anyway, dear Karlsonn for your painstaking titanic work.

[Zynaps]

so these are still seeds. almost 4 million Germans were expelled from Poland.

You can read here: http://otvoyna.ru/polcha.htm

or here: http://expert.ru/expert/2008/30/izgnany_i_ubity/

[22rus]

Do you want that after Liditsa they will be given coupons for enhanced nutrition?

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

Do you want that after Liditsa they will be given coupons for enhanced nutrition?

Of course not. Although our account to the Germans is simply huge compared to the Czechs, we did not shoot thousands of prisoners and civilians. By the way, the diet of captured Germans working for restoration was better than the ration obtained by cards, by our citizens.

[22rus]

Quote: Karlsonn

Although our account to the Germans is simply huge compared to the Czechs, we did not shoot thousands of prisoners and civilians.

C'mon ... And they shot at civilians and raped and robbed ... True, they punished many for this .... They gave them for 2-3 years.
And in general, it’s not very clear to me why you’re defending undeveloped gunners here?

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

And in general, it’s not very clear to me why you’re defending undeveloped gunners here?

I do not defend the "unbeaten Gansiks" I wrote about the attitude towards the captured Germans, do not misinterpret what I have written, if you do not understand what I wanted to say - ask again.

Quote: 22rus

. And they shot at civilians and raped and robbed ...

it was not massive.

Quote: 22rus

True, many were punished for this .... They gave the whole 2-3 of the year.

why are you lying?
From the order of Stalin on January 19 1945
"Officers and Red Army men! We are going to the enemy's country. Everyone must keep composure, everyone must be brave ... The remaining population in the conquered areas, regardless of whether German, Czech, or Pole, should not be subjected to violence. The perpetrators will be punished according to martial law. Sex with women is not allowed in the conquered territory. The perpetrators will be shot for violence and rape. "

20 April 1945 city
The Supreme High Command orders:
1. Demand to change the attitude towards the Germans both to prisoners of war and civilians. Treat the Germans better. The cruel relationship with the Germans causes them to fear and makes them stubbornly resist, not surrendering to captivity. The civilian population, fearing revenge, is organized into gangs. This situation is not profitable for us. A more humane attitude towards the Germans will ease our combat operations on their territory and will undoubtedly reduce the German stubbornness in defense.
2. In areas of Germany west of the line of the mouth of the Oder River, Fürstenberg, then the Neisse River (west) to create German administrations, and in cities to set burgomaster - Germans. The ordinary members of the National Socialist Party, if they are loyal to the Red Army, should not be touched, but only leaders should be detained if they did not manage to escape.
3. Improving attitudes towards the Germans should not lead to a decrease in vigilance and familiarity with the Germans.
Supreme Headquarters.

I.STALIN
ANTONOV "

[Karlsonn]

There are also a sufficient number of real stories-memories. Such as P. Bryukhov's recollections of the murder while attempting to rape a Romanian girl: “The next day her parents come to our brigade with the local authorities. And the next day, the authorities found them and took them - SMERSH worked well. Ivanov immediately confessed that he was shooting , but he did not understand what he had killed. On the third day of the trial. The whole brigade was built in the clearing, the burgomaster and father and mother were brought in. The mechanic was crying bitterly. Ivanov still says to him: "Listen, be a man. You will not be shot anyway, there is no need to nurse They will send him to the penal battalion - you will atone for it in blood. "When he was given the last word, he asked for forgiveness. And so it happened - they were given twenty-five years with the replacement of a penal battalion. The lieutenant stood up and said:" Citizens of the judge of the Military Tribunal, I have committed a crime and I ask I don’t do any condescension. ”So simple and firm. He sat down and sits, picking his teeth with a blade of grass. The verdict was announced:“ Shoot in front of the formation. Build a brigade. Execute the verdict. ” chickpeas fifteen twenty. The convict was brought to a previously opened grave. A brigade special officer, a lieutenant colonel, says to our battalion special officer standing in the brigade's ranks: "Comrade Morozov, carry out the sentence." He doesn't come out. "I order you!" He stands, does not come out. Then the lieutenant colonel runs up to him, grabs his hand, pulls him out of line and through his teeth swearing: "I order you !!" He went. I went up to the convict. Lieutenant Ivanov took off his cap, bowed, said: "Forgive me, brothers." And that's all. Morozov tells him: "Get on your knees." He said this very quietly, but everyone could hear it - there was an eerie silence. He got down on his knees, folded his cap behind his belt: "Bend your head." And when he bowed his head, the special officer shot him in the back of the head. The lieutenant's body fell and convulsed. It was so creepy…. The special officer turned and walked, smoke came from the pistol, and he walked, staggered like a drunk. The Colonel shouts: “Control! Control!" He hears nothing, goes. Then he himself jumps, once, again, again.
What I remember is that after each shot, he was already dead, and still shuddered. He pushed the body with his foot, it rolled into the grave: “Bury”. Buried. "Disperse!" No one left for fifteen minutes. Dead silence. He fought great, respected him, they knew that the Romanians burned his family. After all, he could ask for indulgence, say that by chance, no…. After that, there were no excesses with the local population in our brigade. "

[22rus]

Quote: Karlsonn

I do not protect hansikov

Protect, protect ...

Quote: Karlsonn

it was not massive.

How many phenomena become widespread?

Quote: Karlsonn

why are you lying?
From the order of Stalin on January 19 1945

What is the point of lying to me?
The order was, I do not argue. But! really for such misconduct (rape of the local population. robbery) gave, as I said a very short time. The maximum that I saw is a dozen. But there were generally conditional sentences.
As evidence - documents. If you do not believe me, I can post it. Not scrap.

[Karlsonn]

22rus
EPT, and you are stubborn, okay:

Quote: 22rus

Protect, protect ...

it’s only in your head, I don’t need to ascribe my thoughts.

Quote: 22rus

How many phenomena become widespread?

What do you think?

Quote: 22rus

What is the point of lying to me?

I don't know, but for some reason you're lying , I don’t know the reasons for your lies, it’s not visible from here .

Quote: 22rus

really for such misconduct (rape of the local population. robbery) gave, as I said a very short time

Well here again - you're lying! tell me - why are you doing this?

Quote: 22rus

The maximum that I saw is a dozen.

I repeat to you once again:
- if you don’t know something, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t! Your ignorance is only your misfortune.

Quote: 22rus

But there were generally conditional sentences.
As evidence - documents. If you do not believe me, I can post it. Not scrap.

and I saw a polar bear only in a zoo, and one, what does it mean - polar bears do not live in nature and it is impossible to see them more than one at a time?
If you saw a dozen documents, what does it mean?
if you search, I can also find scans of documents and cho?
anyway, the experience of communicating with you suggests that you can’t prove anything, provide you with evidence that is incompatible with your views, you will immediately begin to bustle.

[Nagaibak]

22rus "How many times does the phenomenon become widespread?"
It is not a matter of quantity. Our only ones - who punished their own. Amer and now for rape will not be punished in some sort of Asian country.

[Pushkar]

Quote: 22rus

C'mon ... And they shot at civilians and raped and robbed ... True, they punished many for this .... They gave them for 2-3 years.

Yes, yes, you saw with your own eyes a million trillion raped German women.

[Karlsonn]

Pushkar

comrade, he really amuses me, at least there is some benefit from such , maintains a good mood.

[22rus]

Yeah ... to be shot ... with things.
This is called the deportation of Germans from the Sudetenland. This shot has nothing to do with the execution.

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Thinking you are ours, Jews were brought to concentration camps with suitcases, so what?
In your opinion, if people were led to be shot in things, does this cast doubt on the reliability of these photos? I can take another picture with an indication - who, where and when did they take. Dear friend, people with things are being led so that the panic does not rise prematurely, they were told to take things, we will deport you to Germany. In the same way, Jews were driven into gas chambers disguised as showers.
Cynically speaking about the executed prisoners and civilians after the war is all that you can do?

[22rus]

Quote: Karlsonn

Dear friend, people with things are being led so that the panic does not rise prematurely, they were told to take things, we will deport you to Germany.

Yes, full of pictures of deported Germans from the Sudetenland.
Are these Germans to be shot too?


And this even put crosses on their backs. Apparently solely for ease of aiming.

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

Yes, full of pictures of deported Germans from the Sudetenland.
Are these Germans to be shot too?

I don’t know anything about the fate of the people in this photo.

Quote: 22rus

And this even put crosses on their backs. Apparently solely for ease of aiming.

that is, your ernishness is serious evidence that there was no Brunsky death march, Ustitsky shot, Prerov shot, and the photographs I posted were fakes?

[Alex]

Dear friend, people with things are being led so that the panic does not rise prematurely, they were told to take things, we will deport you to Germany. In the same way, Jews were driven into gas chambers disguised as showers.

In the same way, in Kiev in 1941, all the Jews were gathered with valuable things and taken in the direction of Petrovka "to put them on a train to Palestine." And on the Syrtsa everyone was robbed (valuables have already been collected, and there is no need to rummage around), stripped, whoever wanted - raped someone younger and more beautiful, and ... Then everything is known to everyone.
Doesn’t resemble anything in this photo, huh?

[mehanik27]

This is about Captain Karel Pavlik ???? So he was found there only one, it seems there were no more precedents

[Karlsonn]

mehanik27

please write the nickname whom you are contacting,

Quote: mehanik27

So he was found there only one, there seemed to be no more precedents

Does this diminish the heroism of the Czechs who had armed resistance to the enemy?

[mehanik27]

and there were a lot of them at that time ??? The commander of the 12th machine gun company of the 3rd battalion of the 8th Silesian infantry regiment, Captain Karel Pavlik and some of his soldiers ??? The rest then surrendered to the enemy with dignity .... however, as well as in the end, Pavlik himself.

[haron]

Quote: submariner

Salaries, bonuses, food were much better than the Germans themselves ...

Where does the information come from ??

[подводник]

A week after the appointment, Heydrich initiated a trial against Czech Prime Minister Alois Eliash, who was suspected of having connections with the resistance. The trial, chaired by Otto Tirac, took four hours, and Eliasch was sentenced to death [29] (which was carried out after the death of Heydrich). One of the first after the appointment of Heydrich’s actions was the order to close all synagogues on the territory of the protectorate, and in November 1941, on his orders, the concentration camp Theresienstadt was created, which was intended to contain Czech Jews before being sent to death camps [30]. At the same time, Heydrich began to take measures to appease the population: he reorganized the social security system. He raised the wages and diet for workers (Wikipedia Reinhard Tristan Eugen Heydrich)

[haron]

Quote: submariner

Well, how can you compare here !!!! - European urban civilized Czech Republic and the musty rural underdeveloped Belarus ...

Somewhere I compared the Czech Republic and Belarus in the same way as you quote ????
Or do you have such a vision of the inferiority of Belarus initially ???

Quote: submariner

At the same time, Heydrich began to take measures to appease the population: he reorganized the social security system. He raised the wages and nutritional standards for workers (Wikipedia Reinhard Tristan Eugen Heydrich)

You just don’t tell anyone (as above) that these rates and salaries were higher than German.

[подводник]

1.Read your own previous comments ...
2. Belarus, like Ukraine, are my brotherly countries for which we fought and if we are honored we will fight again ..
3. Are you ashamed ... or are you threatening me like that ???

[haron]

Quote: submariner

3. Are you ashamed ... or are you threatening me like that ???

God forbid to threaten the Russian, submariner, patriot on this site.
Most likely I will smile as Schweik and go on.

[подводник]

Most likely I will smile as Schweik and move on

Yes, I saw films about Svejk ... When I was a little laugh ... When I matured, I think this is not the way to get away from the reality surrounding you ... You are fooling yourself ...

[mamba]

Quote: submariner

this is not the way to get away from the reality surrounding you ... fool yourself ...

They did not deceive themselves and did not leave reality. This is the position of Hamlet, Schweik, Ivan the Fool. Pretend to be a simpleton or even a fool and what is your demand? Very favorable position: perfectly maintains the integrity of the nervous system and precious skin.

[Kaa]

Quote: haron

You just don’t tell anyone (as above) that these rates and salaries were higher than German.

"Berlin highly appreciated the contribution of Czech enterprises to strengthening the military-technical strength of the Reich and established a flexible system of incentives for workers in Czech military factories, including increased food standards, which were sometimes better than in Germany. “The Czechs handed over to us all the necessary information about their tanks,” he recalled. German Colonel Engineer Iken. “We never had to deal with shares of sabotage or any resistance.” Yuri Tsingovatov
Who fought against the USSR during World War II 2010-03-22 17:21:02 http://alfamodel7li.7li.ru/viewtopic.php?id=768

[M. Peter]

Quote: haron

Quote: "submariner"

Salaries, bonuses, food were much better than the Germans themselves ...

Where does the information come from ??

Probably from eyewitness accounts.

In our city, half the war, Japanese prisoners of war lived. Which worked for the good of our people. Each captive was hooked into the families of the townspeople. They fed and watered at the expense of the local population and, God forbid, any of the prisoners of war would have complained that the family in which he had been attached had somehow fed or something else, even if they had spoken a bad word in his direction ...
There is also a Japanese cemetery, on which their relatives from Japan quite often come. These people died, not from the hellish and supposedly unbearable conditions of captivity, there is no evidence of ordinary old age and any other natural causes. The living, who fulfilled their duty, returned safely to Japan.
I do not think that there was a different attitude towards the captured Germans.

[Belij]

And you read Chris McKnab's "The Third Reich" - there is a lot of interesting things there. By the way, this is one of the few Western authors who called that not only Germany, but most of Europe fought against the USSR

[knn54]

Don’t confuse Czechs and Slovaks - the last Germans gave symbolic autonomy. Tiso had the right to spank even crowns. But ordinary Slovaks didn’t want to fight either - captain Yan Nalepka (if memory serves one) passed to the partisans in Belarus.

[Karlsonn]

knn54

it’s true, it used to be that Slovaks transferred whole battalions to ours, a rather interesting episode of the interaction of Slovaks and Kovpakovites during a raid on the Carpathians.

[Zhenya]

Posted by Bravo!

[marder]

Not an article, but just a song! I read it with pleasure. And as the author correctly noted - there is no faith once betrayed, and twice so even more so!

[rexby63]

That it was TWICE CHANGE

Keywords. Do not need anything else. And I personally shit from a tall birch, who and what they saved there. Czechs are also those shots

[Black]

Quote: haron

And blaming them that they survive this way is a little wrong.

Yes Yes. Let's not remember how from 40 to 45 they obediently riveted "pieces", armored personnel carriers, tanks, small arms to the Germans, and as soon as the "owner" zagonezirovani - so they began to bite him on the heels. Rotten folk.
Article - Respect. And our system of historical education must finally outgrow its bashful tolerance and it is time to tell the truth.

[baltika-18]

One would like to exclaim: Oh, times! Oh, morals! How many of them got divorced, then there are those who like to rewrite history.

[Volkhov]

The war was arranged to kill more Russians:
Personnel
11,997 non-returnable
40,501 injured and sick
Total 52,498

Material losses
373 tanks and ACS
1,006 Gunnery
80 aircraft
+ to this
About 300 killed, about 600 wounded (about the same thing, since all of the injured Vlasovites who were in Czech hospitals, ours ... were seized.
These are the losses after the surrender of Berlin and surrender on May 7 (repeated May 8), the Zionist leadership behaved in about the same way in the Finnish war when they stormed Vyborg after peace talks and in Japan on the 45th, when they sent landing on about. Shumshu after the surrender of Japan and lost about 1500 people.
But despite all the measures, the Russians still remained and demand "care" in the form of reforms and propaganda.

[22rus]

Quote: Volkhov

Personnel
11,997 non-returnable
40,501 injured and sick
Total 52,498

Impudent substitution of facts.
12 thousand killed Soviet soldiers - ethen losses for the whole Prague operation. And during the liberation of Prague itself, about 1 thousand of our soldiers died.

[Karlsonn]

Quote: 22rus

And during the liberation of Prague itself, about 1-th thousand of our soldiers died.

Yes sir .

[Karlsonn]

so what?
go to Prague, read books see for yourself.

[buruntuz]

Are only Russians allowed to have traitors and policemen in their ranks, but Czechs and "other Romanians" are deprived of this right? Is it really only Russian diplomacy that has the right to betray the Serbs?

[Karlsonn]

buruntuz

Quote: buruntuz

Is it really only Russians who are allowed to have traitors and policemen in their ranks

this is not right, this is the shameful page of history.

Quote: buruntuz

Is it really only Russian diplomacy that has the right to betray the Serbs?

Svanidze is it you?

[buruntuz]

I wonder if Mladic and Karadzic have heard of such a figure in Russian television.

[zh1]

And what, little what? A whole thousand of ours?

[Karlsonn]

zh1

some people finally have a strange thing going on in their heads.

[Volkhov]

Where the leadership was normal, the Russians and Germans traveled in parallel columns in May and there was an order not to shoot without a command.
For example, a neighbor, a veteran, said that when they were driving just in the direction of Prague, a bridge appeared on the road, there are 2 tigers and a ferdinand in the barrier. The German lieutenant went out to the bridge and explained in Russian that he had orders not to miss the bridge. Then we drove 200 m to the side, began to cling cars to the tanks and went ford. The Germans saw that the crossing took place, turned around and went to catch up with their own.
And where there are maniacs in the leadership, they will arrange a war in peacetime. The neighbor was first an anti-tanker, after being wounded - a repairman, i.e. versed in tanks.

[Karlsonn]

Guskov will not give you a hand!
http://topwar.ru/14110-uvazhaemyy-tvorcheskiy-kollektiv-i-direkciya-telekanala-n
tv.html

[Volkhov]

Why do I need Guskov’s hand?
"feature film of the German director Achim von Boriss" 4 days in May "."
The artist earned German money, this time propaganda came from the Nazi network (the world is controlled by the balance of the Nazis and Zionists), I need the Russian world, although it is now not visible.

[Karlsonn]

Volkhov

Quote: Volkhov

the Zionist leadership in the Finnish war behaved in much the same way

Israel during the war with Finland did not exist.

Quote: Volkhov

and in the Japanese 45, when they sent a landing on about. Shumshu after the surrender of Japan and lost about 1500 people.

If you do not know the story well and do not understand the question - why carry nonsense.
Come with trump cards, for example like this:
- I don’t know why ours fought with Japan, what goals the Soviet leadership set for the army, under what circumstances it was necessary to implement all this, but I am firmly convinced that Jews are to blame for all the troubles.

[Volkhov]

I lived in Kamchatka, was interested in history, and in the 70s, schoolchildren were sent to talk with veterans (it was called "red trackers"), so I know the events in Shumshu. My grandfather was a translator in the Japanese war (Chinese, Japanese, English, German), there were 1 of them per division, he negotiated with both the Japanese and the Chinese, swore with his lovers of trophies from Chinese palaces, so he had some understanding of the situation. transmitted.
The Stalinist idea of ​​occupying the north of Hokkaido was reasonable - then the Sea of ​​Okhotsk would legally become inland with a secure basing of the fleet, and the Kuril Islands would transmit, and nothing was required except observation. The British did not storm the Channel Islands or Helgoland - they waited for surrender and blew up the bunker.
But the Jews have no particular complaints - they are simply deceived by the Venusians and work as their agents to the detriment of people, they at one time found shepherds and seduced, this did not work with the Celts and Tatars.

[Karlsonn]

Volkhov

sorry, but in - Kamchatka.

Quote: Volkhov

I lived in Kamchatka, was interested in history

a fellow countryman I lived in Susuman, Belogorsk, Blagoveshchensk, Khabarovsk and in two other military towns in the taiga; amazing your view of history .

Quote: Volkhov

so I know the events at Shumshu.

Your interpretation amazed me.

Quote: Volkhov

And to Jews there are no special complaints

But what about this?

Quote: Volkhov

the Zionist leadership in the Finnish war behaved in much the same way when they stormed Vyborg

[Volkhov]

Kamchatka is 8 km from Shumshu, it was the nearest Japanese territory, the landing was supported by a 130 mm battery from Cape Lopatka.
The Zionist leadership is a sad reality, their work is to suppress the Russians, accordingly there must be counter-ideology, otherwise they will be fired as unnecessary. Why on earth should I support the annihilation of my people - they then cherish their own.

[Nagaibak]

Volkhov "These are losses after the surrender of Berlin and the surrender on May 7 (repeated on May 8), the Zionist leadership behaved in about the same way in the Finnish war, when they staged an assault on Vyborg after the peace talks and in the Japanese 45th"
As I understand it, Stalin is a Zionist? Amused ... Well, okay, 22 rus frolics and then, he does not bend like that. On the loss of our troops, I agree with him. You kind of got excited ..

[castle]

It would be necessary for these Soviet heroes-patriots, who saw war only in Soviet agitation, to find and in their brains (if any) to put information about how many Czechoslovakians who were forced to leave the German occupation, even before 1941, fought against the Germans in the composition of the British Army and after 1941 and as part of the Red Army. Only in the Red Army there were more than 50 people. Do you know how many people were executed by the Germans for sabotage in enterprises and anti-Hitler resistance? They say something to you, the names of the villages of Lidice and Lezak?
Here on the forum you have to show yourself as a patriot. Here they are only doing what they are competing with, who will be able to scold and insult other nations more. Here, they began to make themselves chosen God out of themselves. Hitler already did this.

[22rus]

Quote: hrad

Here on the forum you have to show yourself as a patriot. Here they are only doing what they are competing with, who will be able to scold and insult other nations more. Here, they began to make themselves chosen God out of themselves. Hitler already did this.

castle, subscribe to your every word! The local public does not want to and does not know how to think.

[подводник]

What happiness and luck it is for us orphans and the wretched that this resource visited and paid us attention to such a light of thought, an iron truth-teller, a brave human rights defender who is a certain 22rus ... fortunately for us from your presence ....
(but minus the skull you can’t wait)
say hello to Judah!

[Karlsonn]

22rus

Quote: 22rus

The local public does not want to and does not know how to think.

Thanks to Allah that we have you - the only one and not repeatable on the whole site who knows how and wants to think! ALILLUIA !!!!

Do you hear, you are our misunderstood genius, then then rub yourself in the midst of grayness?
please your pride? Like, and I’ll go on a review, I hang out among those who don’t think.
Hmm, I did not expect.

[Karlsonn]

minus I see here there is another one that believes:

Quote: 22rus

The local public does not want to and does not know how to think.

another genius arrived in our regiment.

[Chaplain]

The point is not that the local public does not know how to think and does not want, but that all other publics, when they poke their noses into their urine, immediately begin to make excuses. That is, it’s not so and it’s not that way (sometimes there are few shells, then people the wrong ones, then the grenades of the wrong system, etc.) When you can cite real facts of this or that deed and again it turns out that you sold out for a "penny." For this reason, they begin to point out the mistakes of others, and again these mistakes turn out to be frequent, calculation or betrayal.
And even for the sake of someone they begin to rewrite history.
I do not approve of sweeping condemnation and rudeness, both about Russians and from Russians.
About the Czechs, as well as about other nationalities, I can say that the excessive flexibility of the character of the people ultimately turns against itself.

[подводник]

Dear Hrad!
I don’t want to belittle your dignity!
If we are talking about Czech soldiers who fought in the ranks of the Red, and then the Soviet Army against Germany, then it would be better if you tell us about this in detail and write !!!
But in my previous comments I just emphasized the facts!
They are not pleasant for you to the same extent that the fact of the existence of the army of the traitor Vlasov, which then betrayed the Germans, is unpleasant for me !!!!
As for the Soviet heroes-patriots (which I consider myself to be), I have to say that I have every right to speak on behalf of this country, since I not only served it, but because my grandfather died in 1941 protecting her from the enemy!

[Karlsonn]

подводник

it?
on the picture:

Czech soldiers (from the Czech unit of the Soviet troops) on the border of Czechoslovakia. Author's name of the photo: “Czechoslovak warriors-liberators went to the borders of their native land."

[подводник]

Karlsonn
Thanks, now I see WARS among the Czechs!

[Karlsonn]

I remembered an excellent film about the Czech military pilots --- "Yawning Blue",
Pearl Harbor resting .
http://www.kinopoisk.ru/film/23111/

[Karlsonn]

castle

Quote: hrad

It would be necessary for these Soviet heroes-patriots, who saw the war only in Soviet agitation, to find in their brains

Well rude to you, I agree - it’s unpleasant, why be rude and rude in return?

Quote: hrad

They say something to you, the names of the villages of Lidice and Lezak?

Yes, they tell me.

Quote: hrad

Here on the forum you have to show yourself as a patriot.

no, not necessarily.

Quote: hrad

Here they are only doing what they are competing with, who will be able to scold and insult other nations more.

a few pieces hit, from around the corner with a dusty bag over the head, do not do weather on this site.

Quote: hrad

Here, they began to make themselves chosen God out of themselves.

finally, by.

why, due to a bullshit insult, get up with a saber to the mast?
let's live in peace .

[Kaa]

Quote: hrad

Only in the Red Army there were more than 50 people

But just how many of them were captured by the Red Army:
Germans 2388443
Austrians 156681
Czechs and Slovaks 69977
French 23136
Yugoslavs 21830
Poles 60277
Dutch 4730
Belgians 2014
Luxembourgers 1653
Spaniards 452
Danes Xnumx
Norwegians Xnumx
other nationalities 3989
PRIZE THIRD PLACE !!!!! Table 3. From the certificate of registration of prisoners of war in Germany and satellite countries in the NKVD camps on April 22, 1956 http://www.battlefield.ru/germany-ussr-losses/stranitsa-3.html

[Kaa]

In the last days of World War II, when almost the entire territory of Czechoslovakia was liberated, German troops continued to control Prague. This was primarily due to the fact that the Red Army was delayed in the so-called Ostrava operation. The enemy group defending here was destroyed only on April 30, 1945. As a result, the American troops of General Dwight Eisenhower were closer to Prague. On May 4, he informed Stalin that his units could take Prague. Mindful of the behavior of the allies in Warsaw history and realizing that if the Yankees take Prague, then certainly the interests of the USSR will not be taken into account in deciding the future fate of Czechoslovakia, even despite the Yalta agreements, Moscow sent Eisenhower a short but clear answer: “No!” In this case, the Americans did not dare to go against the USSR and froze on the Karlovy Vary - Pilsen - Ceske Budejovice line agreed upon in Yalta. Meanwhile, the Czech National Council, which mainly consisted of Czech communists, believing that the German garrison of the city was so demoralized that it would not show serious resistance, decided to act independently and on May 5 raised an uprising in Prague. From a military point of view, this was completely ill-conceived and superfluous. The first thing that started the uprising was that it turned out that the German garrison was not at all demoralized and would burn sedition in the city with hot iron. In such a situation, the rebel leaders did not find any other way but to turn to the “Russian Liberation Army” for General Andrei Vlasov for help. Ultimately, Vlasov General Sergei Bunyachenko realized that Prague could be a salvation for the ROA. He decided to free the Czech capital from the Nazis and “throw it at the feet” of the Americans. For this, in his opinion, they will not extradite the Vlasovites to the Soviets. As a result, parts of the ROA entered Prague and fought there against the Germans. The Vlasovites acted so successfully that the German units began to lose their strength without ever suppressing the centers of resistance of the rebels. Prague was practically liberated, and the time has come to “surrender” to the Yankees. On May 7, Vlasovites sealed the whole city with leaflets with the slogan: "Death to Stalin, death to Hitler." Here the national council was seriously worried and threw a cry, caught up by the citizens of Prague: "Vlasovites, leave Prague." On May 8, parts of General Bunyachenko, upset by the ingratitude of the townspeople, left the Czech capital and made their way west to surrender to the Americans. And the fighting in the city flared up with renewed vigor. In the evening of the same day, the Soviet command decided that it was necessary to save the rebels. The task of capturing Prague was to be solved by the tank armies of Generals Pavel Rybalko and Dmitry Lelyushenko. They had to go over a hundred kilometers to the Czech capital and free it over the night of May 8–9 with armored infantry fighting. Following the tank units, formations of the 13th Army and the 5th Guards Army marched to Prague. They coped with the task - on the morning of May 9, knocking down the last German barriers on the outskirts of Prague, our tankers broke into the city.

[подводник]

Kaa
Thanks for the very detailed material, it was very interesting !!!

[Karlsonn]

Kaa

on the picture:

Soviet soldier from the liberators of Czechoslovakia.

[Karlsonn]

I remembered an excellent film about the Czech military pilots --- "Yawning Blue",
Pearl Harbor resting .
[media = http: // http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = LXyjnm46Gt4]

http://www.kinopoisk.ru/film/23111/

[подводник]

Karlsoon
Where did you get such a photo archive ???
Why !!!

[Karlsonn]

подводник

I’ve been greedy since childhood, I pull everything that comes into the house.

on the picture:
Soviet self-propelled guns ISU-122s on one of the streets of the city of Sobeslav in Czechoslovakia. The inscription on the self-propelled gun - "We are Russian, we won" and "Glory to the Soviet gunners!".

the photo was taken either on the 11 of May or later, since:

... Operational report for May 11 1945:

“... The troops of the 2-th UKRAINIAN front during May 11 pursued the German troops who refused to capitulate from the group of Field Marshal Scherner and Colonel-General Veler and, successfully moving forward, occupied the cities of Chotebor, Ledec, Vlashim, Bistrice in Czechoslovakia , Yesteb-Nice, Tabor, Pelgrzhimov, SABESLAV. Front troops in the area northwest of the city of Cesne Budejovice joined forces with American forces. ... "...

but in general, it’s a pity Kars disappeared somewhere, our specialist in armored vehicles and artillery, he has much more photos.

[Serge]

Thank you, I did not even recognize that there is such a reward)

[Karlsonn]

Serge

Quote: Seryoga

Thank you, I did not even recognize that there is such a reward)

"For the capture of Prague"?
here if necessary:
http://bigmuseum.narod.ru/Medals/E/Russia/vov3.html

[Kibl]

Take any country in Europe, fuck ,,, dy, shit ,,, dyu! Read Wolfgang Akunov SS Viking Division (5.SS-Panzer-Division "Viking")

[Karlsonn]

Kibl

Comrade is precisely for this reason that 9 is May Day for them, and not Victory Day!
that’s why they rewrite history, and it’s not hot before the descendants to look like minions and accomplices of those who steered gas stoves and crematoriums.
that is why they are trying to equate fascism and communism.

[подводник]

Karlsonn

Golden words ...

[Karlsonn]

подводник

well , then in before the race, on the 21 of December Europeans will wait for the end of the world, and we will celebrate Stalin's birthday!

[подводник]

Well, I don’t know .... Dear, you just became a million richer today, personally from me !!!

[M. Peter]

The Czechs, even during a long occupation, tried to protest, dressed in all black and ... worked further, making tanks. The Germans only smiled at such "protests".

[buruntuz]

the Wehrmacht allowed in the occupied territories of the USSR to open new parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church and the people threw there. So what ? The Germans probably also just smiled, looking at something like that, no?

[Karlsonn]

Quote: buruntuz

The Germans probably also just smiled, looking at something like that, no?

What is the point of your remark?
expand your thought please.

[AIR ZNAK]

But how many people know which of the allies first entered Vienna? Young Europeans try to forget Russian Vanya zealously. I propose to recall the film from the Soviet Union * 4 tankers and a dog * made in Poland. Especially the song in it in each series was performed in Polish. When we (Poles) Berlin Russians took us better. Nobody denies the presence of Polish volunteer units in the Berlin operation. But that’s so ... By the way, it was turned around with the GDP on some channel (film). History needs to be known, appreciated and respected to draw the right conclusions.

[Brother Sarych]

I don’t remember something, so that there was something about Berlin in that song! Do not you persecute us, the most respectable?

[Kaa]

Quote: Brother Sarich

Do not you persecute us, most respectable?

Chases, chases ... The song is ideologically (from our point of view) sustained.
In the meadows
And in the sky the wind
And we are in this war
Watching the world
Back to the meadows
Just settle
Several different things
Maybe not yourself
Back to mom
And for school desks
Restless rains
Disheveled the world
And we are in this war
Good few years
Back home
Flood the stove
Feed the dog
Back to the night
Only win -
For this is an important game
Clouds in the sky
The villages are full of lilacs
Where is this world far
Full of good dreams
Come back faithful
We are four tankers
"Red" and our red dog.
We are four tankers
Come back faithful
For the spring lilac
Apparently, the Ideological Department of the Central Committee was still "catching mice" ...

[Karlsonn]

Brother Sarych

Quote: Brother Sarich

I don’t remember something, so that there was something about Berlin in that song!

it’s not a proverb, not a soldier’s joke, not a soldier’s song, the text of which cannot be found, the phrase reads: “The Polish army took Berlin - it helped.”

Poles, I don’t like Russian as a nation, but Ukrainians really hate them, although this is mutual.

[подводник]

Well, about the Psheks here it’s completely out of place ... What can I say about halflings .....

[synodontis]

To the place, dear submariner! As you know, when Hitler captured the Sudetenland, then his ally (at that time) Poland captured the areas inhabited by Rusyns in Czechoslovakia.

[mamba]

Quote: AIR-ZNAK

But how many people know which of the allies first entered Vienna? Russian Vanya is trying hard to forget the Young Europeans.

My cousin uncle also participated in the capture of Vienna. Then he was a young lieutenant, commander of a platoon of self-propelled artillery installations SU-152. He fought in the 374th guards heavy tank regiment of the 4th Panzer Army of the 1st Ukrainian Front. After being wounded near Breslau and treated at a hospital in the German city of Neumarkt, he continued to serve in the 106th Guards Heavy Tank Self-Propelled Regiment of the 1st Ukrainian Front. He ended the war in Vienna with the rank of senior lieutenant.

Quote: AIR-ZNAK

When we (Poles) took Berlin, the Russians helped us

About the liberation of Warsaw - similarly. I remember back in Soviet times the spring reporting of our TV from Warsaw. Channel 1 correspondent meets a group of Polish youth and interviews them, asking what they know about the liberation of the capital of their homeland from the Nazis. One brisk Polish guy, without blinking an eye, began to set out a story from which I was literally twisted. Say the Polish troops approached the city from this direction and from there, and knocked out the Germans with their first attack. All. And not a word about the Soviet army.
This was the period of Soviet-Polish friendship. We still did not know anything about Katyn and about the details of the Warsaw uprising, as well as about the deaths of tens of thousands of Red Army soldiers in Polish captivity after the "miracle on the Vistula."

[stroporez]

Well, Duc, due to the fact that this series is so popular in Russia, the Poles say, sho Russians understand the "leading" role of the gentry .........

[Kibl]

I apologize for the swear word b ,,,,,, b, but I couldn’t find any other nonsense in the great and most powerful, because the other synonyms are generally not edible! We’ll well call cultural-whores! I won’t give you a list, there’s a globe, myself find! Please start from Latvia and up to the English ditch, inclusive with foggy thorn!

[dima_talib]

A few words on this subject ... My Grandfather, now a surviving 98-year-old Guardsman - Kantemirowiec freed, including Prague. And even today, the old man (a former battalion commander) cannot hold back tears. Remembering, on May 10, a German tank that suddenly appeared, destroyed the entire calculation of an anti-aircraft gun. I crossed paths with General Svoboda several times, about the Czechs he speaks with much greater warmth than about the Poles.
Second Grandfather, company commander. I did not live up to victory a week and a half !!! Stacked his head under the town of Usherski Grad. Also in the Czech Republic, east of Brno. He was at a mass grave (where I think he is buried). Everything is modest, but worthy. In Ukraine, sometimes military graves are in a more poor condition ...
There is a lot of scribble about how the Czechs should have fought, with whom to fight, etc. What to take, for a reference point? Us? Germans? Poles? Romanian? So, let's admit that WE and the Germans, (well, the Japanese still) were at that time at the peak of their passionarity. You, however, are probably not proud of being stronger than a teenager or a dwarf ... Each nation has had or will have its own glorious pages.
Well, in fact ... The sources of information and who is the authority for me, I choose myself. What is this "hiztori-channel" - I don't know and I DO NOT WANT to know.
And Prague, and Warsaw, and Berlin, and thousands of other cities, villages liberated our grandfathers. But will we be able to?

[Karlsonn]

Quote: dima_talib

What to take, for a reference point? Us? Germans? Poles? Romanian?

we, we have a starting point - the memory of the exploits of our ancestors.

Quote: dima_talib

There is a lot of scribble about how the Czechs should have fought, with whom to fight, etc.

the Czechs surrendered and made weapons with which our grandfathers were killed, but our grandfathers in the Brest Fortress wrote under flamethrowers: “Motherland, I am dying, but I am not giving up.”

Quote: dima_talib

So, let's admit that WE and the Germans, (well, the Japanese still) were at that time at the peak of their passionarity. You, however, are probably not proud of being stronger than a teenager or a dwarf ... Each nation has had or will have its own glorious pages.

I personally do not care who is there passionate or not, the main thing for me is that the memory of my ancestors is not watered with guan.

Quote: dima_talib

And Prague, and Warsaw, and Berlin, and thousands of other cities, villages liberated our grandfathers. But will we be able to?

certainly capable - if not so, then we don’t really need to live.

[dima_talib]

Well, since I took the lecture, I will answer.
- Only the Germans can be the "starting point" in that war. Who, half of the world were brought to their knees, but they broke off their teeth precisely thanks to OUR Grandfathers. Which eventually ended the war, with a bold exclamation mark on the Reichstag. Here, only with the Germans it is correct to compare all our successes and failures in that war. And the rest were just ... So, somewhere nearby.
- Now a few words about the "behavior" of the Czechs ... They received from the Germans "protectorates of Bohemia and Moravia", state orders from new masters and, in general, that tolerable existence. Considering the above, the reason for discontent is very illusory.
And to us, a slavish half-starved existence would be curtailed (at best). I think further this topic does not need to be developed.
I see that you have "Carlson" the same flag as mine - a fellow countryman.
So ... Until the end of 1943, my Grandfather started the war on the first day, did not have a single Ukrainian in his battery !!! There were Siberians, Kazakhs were, Georgians and the only Kiev citizen Grigory Marmuta died, having closed with himself a battalion commander (my Grandfather) during a raid on 16GV.t.br (4g.T.Kr.) On Krasnoarmeysk
Something, it seems to me that we are Ukrainians as a nation, do not have the moral right to judge the same Czechs, especially looking at what is happening here (in Ukraine).
Well, in conclusion. Let's not mix flies with borsch.
There was an uprising (no matter what) in Prague? It was! Did the Vlasovites show up in it? Checked in! Whose soldiers wear the medal for the Liberation of Prague? That's right - OUR, LIBERATORS and WINNERS!
And winners are not judged! This is forever.

[Karlsonn]

dima_talib

Quote: dima_talib

Well, since I took the lecture, I will answer.

to teach? Deliver the Buddha, I only expressed my point of view.

Quote: dima_talib

The "starting point" in that war can only be the Germans.

quite categorically, why can not I have my own opinion about other peoples who took part in the war?

Quote: dima_talib

Now a few words about the "behavior" of the Czechs ... They received from the Germans "the protectorates of Bohemia and Moravia",

It’s not yours, they did not receive these lands, they were simply declared a protectorate of Germany. Czechoslovakia lost almost 40 percent of the territory: Slovakia not only transferred part of Czechoslovakia to Hungary, but also became an independent state; the Germans took the Sudetenland; Poles - Moravian-Silesian Region; Hungarians - eastern Slovakia and Transcarpathian Ukraine.

Quote: dima_talib

Given the above, the reason for discontent is very illusive.

Yeah, the Czechs were just happy that they were occupied and made stumps from the country.

Quote: dima_talib

I see that you have "Carlson" the same flag as mine - a fellow countryman.

Quote: dima_talib

Until the end of the 1943 year, my Grandfather, having started the war on the first day, did not have ANY UKRAINE in his battery !!! There were Siberians, Kazakhs were, Georgians and the only Kiev citizen Grigory Marmuta died, covering himself with a battalion commander (my Grandfather)

Well, it happened, the USSR was a multinational state and the fact that there were almost no Ukrainians in the unit of your grandfather was an accident.

Quote: dima_talib

Something, it seems to me that we are Ukrainians as a nation

I am Russian, if that .

[Karlsonn]

Quote: dima_talib

Something, it seems to me that we are Ukrainians as a nation, we have no moral right to judge the same Czechs

even as we have! Ukrainians, like the entire Soviet people, rose to fight the enemy, millions of Ukrainians went to the front, almost 1 400 000 Red Army Ukrainians died; almost 2 500 000 Ukrainians were stolen to Germany; almost 3 300 000 civilians of Ukraine died during the occupation, of which 75 000 children.
And if the Czechs made weapons for Germany, Ukraine, like all Soviet peoples, fought to the death and we have the right to judge, it was bought by our ancestors with their lives.

Quote: dima_talib

Especially looking at what is happening here (in Ukraine).

Now there’s a mess everywhere, so what? This does not plead the feat of our ancestors, this is only our shame.

Quote: dima_talib

Was there an uprising (no matter what) in Prague? It was!

about the uprising, the author of the article wrote better than I can.

Quote: dima_talib

Vlasovites noted in it?

Vlasovites personally interest me only in that aspect - whether their deserved punishment has overtaken them.

Quote: dima_talib

Whose soldiers wear the medal for the Liberation of Prague? That's right - OUR, LIBERATORS and WINNERS!

deservedly so.

[M. Peter]

Quote: dima_talib

There is a lot of scribbling about how the Czechs were supposed to fight, with whom to fight, etc. What to take as a starting point? Us? Germans? Polyakov? Romanian? So, let's admit that WE and the Germans (well, the Japanese still) were at that time at the peak of their passionarity. You are probably not proud of being stronger than a teenager or a dwarf ... Every nation has or will have its glorious pages. Well, in fact ... The sources of information and who is the authority for me, I choose myself. What kind of "hiztori-channel" is - I don't know and I DO NOT WANT to know. Both Prague, Warsaw, Berlin and thousands of other cities and villages were liberated by OUR GRANDFATHER. Will we be capable, will we?

I think they are capable. We have our own heroes who, of course, did not take Prague and Warsaw, but who showed themselves very worthily ...

[Serge]

I also think that many go too far in the comments

[Karlsonn]

Serge

Quote: Seryoga

I also think that many go too far in the comments

not that word, but in the heat of the day and it doesn’t happen, he himself is sinful .

[mehanik27]

Your grandfather fought in 120 ZAP ???

[Karlsonn]

mehanik27

Forgive me for getting in, but please indicate to whom you are contacting.

[mehanik27]

To a certain Taliban

[Karlsonn]

mehanik27

indicate the nickname immediately so that there is no misunderstanding.

[mehanik27]

Well, there are several nuances here, I'll start in order:
-You obviously did not write anything about your grandfather who fought in Prague in this thread of discussion
-and most importantly, in the 21st century, on these your Internet, and more specifically on this forum, there is an arrow at the top right above the message, clicking on which you can find out who it was addressed to, since the discussion thread will go up to the place to which they wrote and the original message will be the topmost.

[Karlsonn]

mehanik27

Is it really so hard to insert the nickname of the person you are contacting?
I don’t need to educate, I was a reader here for almost a year before I registered and decided to write comments — I know the rules of the resource.

[mehanik27]

in the yard 21 century-century of minimalism and simplifications, so somehow I’m not used to inserting a nickname, when everything is clear already

[Karlsonn]

mehanik27

Quote: mehanik27

in the yard 21 century-century of minimalism and simplifications, so somehow I’m not used to inserting a nickname, when everything is clear already

Well, everything can be clear for you, as far as I am concerned - I do not always understand, since I am on you with a computer; I am of worker-peasant origin how dirty it is to throw the enemy so that he sticks his skull into the asphalt - I know, but how to use all the advantages of a computer - alas . I will continue to appreciate the hints.

[Alex]

Quote: mehanik27

in the yard 21 century-century of minimalism and simplifications, so somehow I’m not used to inserting a nickname, when everything is clear already

And the elementary rules of good taste - are they also already minimized? In the end, you can start a conversation without the word "Hello", but somehow more pleasant. And then you watch / read the opuses of current graduates - specialists on the Internet - you want to cry from their literacy ...

[dima_talib]

My grandfather really ended the war in 120 ZAP. Combat 1
And in the 4th guards TC (subsequently Kantemirovskaya division) from the first day of its foundation in Beketovka.
And the sergeant started the war on June 22 near Balti. (but this is already beyond the scope of this topic)
And yet, "a certain" is you a mechanic27 ... And my name is Dmitry and that is my grandfather's name. Got it!
If there are questions in essence? I will be glad to answer. Write to [email protected]

[mehanik27]

I, too, in some way, here is the Internet and there’s no need to be offended, I didn’t want to offend you .. And from what year did your grandfather fight in 120 ZAP?

[dima_talib]

Nevermind...
Grandfather, at the front from the first day of the war, and in 17t.k from 02.01.1943 4 guards.t. from the first day of foundation (in Beketovka near Stalingrad) in 1942.
First, a senior 37mm battery officer. anti-aircraft guns at the 14th Guards Tank Brigade.
After the Kursk Bulge, the commander of the same battery. "Three Red Stars" and "Patriotic War 1st." what are they talking about ...
33 aircraft shot down by a battery (with nameplates !!!), a worthy contribution to the Victory.
I read somewhere that if every anti-tank and anti-aircraft battery were "soaked", the Germans simply would not have tanks and aircraft.
If you are interested in the "mechanic27" of the 120th ZAP in particular and the 4th guards. under which he fought. then write directly to [email protected] .
Very much all interesting things Grandfather told.
It was later, after the reorganization in 1943, that the ZAPs appeared as part of and before that there were batteries in the brigades of the same building. Grandfather, by the way, he reacts very negatively about this change.

[mehanik27]

Yes, you can communicate here.
I just don’t remember the date already, it seems that on February 8, 1942, in Moscow, from the 3rd, 5th and 7th educational batteries, 120 ZAPs were formed, which, after combat coordination, became part of the 4th Guards Engine.
And about 33 shot down planes, I’m not asking for some merits of your grandfather, I would like to elaborate on this number. For as I recall 120 ZAP during the whole war, either shot down 50 or 70 planes. That's because at least twice the battery of the regiment, as I recall, the 3rd and 1st in full force were killed when they went on direct fire at enemy tanks and infantry.

[knn54]

Berlin and Königsberg were taken, others were indeed released. "Heroes are not us" ...
In its own opinion there was a poll (referendum) regarding NATO membership. Czech Republic was the only republic where the majority of the population was against.
Now about the others (according to the stories of the survivors of the occupation).
1. Romanians walked around the market and offered partisan leaflets at a low price ...
2. But when they were replaced by the Hungarian rut of the Vedas, a nightmare ensued (the Wehrmacht is resting).
3.Poles. In 1939, when parts of the Soviet Army came to Western Ukraine, they had to defend the Poles from the local population ...
4. About the Italians, no one said anything bad.

[Captain45]

What is this, following the instructions of the gentlemen from "VRI about History", I must hide my grandfather's medal "FOR the liberation of Prague" deeply and far away, or, according to their words, MY GRANDFATHER, who received this medal, was a Vlasovite? Yes, I will tear out the trench Adam's apple dogs, liberals, homosexuals are not enough ... that is, these creatures are shameful. How much can you endure this vilification and slinging mud at the GREAT FEAT OF THE SOVIET PEOPLE THAT WONDER FASCISM AND RELEASED THIS Wed ... If my grandfather had been alive, he would have taken his PPSh and went to restore historical justice. But my city of childhood is Buzuluk, Orenburg region. was the base of the formation of the First Czechoslovak Battalion under the command of Ludwig Svoboda, in the museum of the city his tunic, writing desk, battalion banner, the street is named after the second lieutenant Otakar Yarosh to this day.

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Captain45

Yes, I will tear the dogs out of the trench Adam's apple to you, liberalists, homosexuals ... e. Here shameful creatures.

ah, diving into the trench I'm writing comments next to you. You don’t chop off my ears in the heat with a saber.

[Captain45]

Sorry, hurt by the living. And I always see mine so that for the ears do not be afraid.

[Karlsonn]

Captain45

I realized, but I’ll wear a helmet for every fireman .

[aldashckin2012]

All these allies were prostitutes, and they remained

[Captain45]

Damn, this is not the right photo, although the Polish army of Anders was also forming in my city. Now I’ll find Chekhov’s.

Sorry, I can’t find a photo of the Czechoslovak headquarters, although I remember what happened. Did I delete it by mistake?

[Karlsonn]

Captain45

Here is what I found, they fought in the Soviet troops:

http://www.czechpatriots.com/csmu/chronologyru.php

In honor of Ludwig Freedom, the avenue in Kharkov was named, I will look for pictures of monuments to the Czechs who fought with us.

In the meantime, here:

on the picture:

A soldier from the Czechoslovak part of the Red Army in a trench with an anti-tank gun PTRD-41.

[Alex]

Karlsonn-y
Needless to say, who wanted to fight against fascism-he fought and did not look for conditions. Even the French from Algeria to Stalingrad got to bring German aces from our sky. And whoever wanted to rivet the Natsik’s weapons, he met them with bread and salt and carried the denunciations to the commandant’s office.

[Waroc]

Quote from the article - Maybe someone who read it will have a different opinion.
And judging by the assessment of the article - one such was found.
Well, God be his judge - let him go to shit.

[tank64rus]

My father got his last wound near Prague on 12.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX. The battles with the SS and Vlasov men went on until that time.

[Setrac]

The theory of passionarity does not have a scientific basis, it is not necessary to rely on it. Thanks to Poland that the USSR did not come to the aid of the Czech Republic. But during the conquest of the Czech Republic and Poland there was still no blitzkrieg, in Poland the Germans fought one-on-one without any tactical sophistication, and defeating them was many times easier than the Wehrmacht of the 1941 model.

[Karlsonn]

Setrac

Quote: Setrac

. Thanks to Poland that the USSR did not come to the aid of the Czech Republic.

strange look.

[Kibl]

European trash, prostitutes, legs are always ready to stand apart in front of a powerful member, only Serbs, Dutch, a little Frenchmen fought and that's it !!!!!

[buruntuz]

Well, you ... only Russians fought. og. But all kinds of Moldavians, Ossetians, Poles, Belarusians, Chechens, Kazakhs, Ukrainians, Armenians, Tatars, Georgians only interfered. underfoot confused ..

[Karlsonn]

buruntuz

why do you attribute your thoughts to others?

[The cat]

Quote: KIBL

European trash, prostitutes, legs are always ready to stand apart in front of a powerful member, only Serbs, Dutch, a little Frenchmen fought and that's it !!!!!

You probably had some kind of unusual textbooks on the history of the Second MV at your school.

[Karlsonn]

The cat

Express your point of view, why be rude?

[The cat]

Subcomandant, what rudeness? Compared to most visitors to this resource, I am a white and fluffy gato. I just do not like such categorical statements not supported by facts.

[Karlsonn]

The cat

and YOU are a savvy comrade .

Quote: Elgato

Compared to most visitors to this resource, I'm white and fluffy

do not be shy, I read your comments many times - call you white and fluffy the tongue does not turn.

Quote: Elgato

I just do not like such categorical statements not supported by facts.

similarly, I firmly shake my hand, in this matter we are similar in our views.

[Antistaks]

Remember the story - in the German generals there was a conspiracy against Hitler. They were waiting for the Czechoslovak conflict as an occasion. But when the Czechs with the help of the British surrendered half the country, everything broke off. And so the story could have turned out differently.
And as already written VERY ONE THE GERMANS HELPED TO THE GERMANS WITH ARMS.
Stalin did not realize they were going to declare war and demand a repo.

[Karlsonn]

Antistaks

Quote: Antistaks

Remember the story - in the German generals there was a conspiracy against Hitler.

was the case.

Quote: Antistaks

They were waiting for the Czechoslovak conflict as an occasion.

expand.

Quote: Antistaks

But when the Czechs with the help of the British surrendered half the country, everything broke off.

You are not talking about that, everything is clear with the Czechs, but the main responsibility after the Germans is the Poles.

Quote: Antistaks

And as already written VERY ONE THE GERMANS HELPED THE GERMANS

Yes sir.

Quote: Antistaks

Stalin did not realize they were going to declare war and demand a repo.

but this is about nothing.

[Karlsonn]

As a Soviet athlete, I can’t get enough of our hockey team at Channel One Cup

maybe we will survive and see such a Russian team as the USSR team, I hope that this will come true:

[media = http: // http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = JdIdTmF7AJ4]

[Larus]

“In the name of the salvation of the heroic sons of Czechoslovakia, in the name of the salvation of defenseless old people, mothers, wives and our children, help us. Czech people never forget your help in the difficult moment of his struggle for freedom»
How many times will we all step on the same rake and keep on such words ......

[Karlsonn]

Larus

I can say from myself:
- as much as necessary.

As a Soviet athlete I can’t rejoice at the achievements of our national hockey team at the Channel One Cup, maybe the brothers will live to see the time when we see such hockey:



I can’t convey in words how much joy and pride I gave this match to a Soviet boy.

[s1н7т]

My father "entered" Prague twice - in 45 and in 68. Evaluation one - prostitutes. And for ROA - execution in any case!

[Karlsonn]

Quote: c1n7

And for the ROA - shooting in any case!

the only way!

dog - dog death!

[Karlsonn]

I want to appeal to all who care:
- I ask you to join the appeal to the administration of the resource, so that those who don’t care would be able to hoist the USSR flag over the avatar.
I propose to collectively meet on December 19 to collectively appeal to the administration.

[dima_talib]

Karlsonn,
TOTALLY SUPPORT!

[Karlsonn]

dima_talib

I had the honor to speak for the USSR, at international, I took the championship, when the USSR flag took first place, I was overwhelmed with pride - why should I be ashamed? let someone qualify with mine - internationally, for their homeland, and then reckon
equal score = I - Karlsonn, member, SKA sports school, Dynamo, Lokomativa, Spartak, Dynamo Olympic Reserve School - 12-YEARS ms.
I am a communist, I am a classic ---- who is on me?

[Karlsonn]

if cho, I’ll call my younger one, but he, unlike me, does not make out who is right and who is not :

[Karlsonn]

if cho, I’ll call my younger one, but he, unlike me, does not make out who is right and who is not:

[rpek32]

I can’t understand: why is there a need for ethnic hatred covered by politics? we all speak the same language, we live practically on the same earth. It is necessary to ask from leaders and not from ordinary people.

[Karlsonn]

rpek32

Quote: rpek32

Why do we need international hatred covered by politics?

this is not necessary in FIG.

[Alexeymiller]

My great-grandfather freed Prague !, and it was not enough that his feat was ranked among some Vlasov traitors (

[Olga Beryaeva (Babarenko)]

And my father freed Prague. I’ll try now to place the photo the same way: how they entered Prague on the IS-2 tank, how their Czechs met flowers. The father was the gun commander. 2 photos were saved. My father died in 1987; he was an invalid of the 2nd group war.