Military Review

Russia and the Caucasian Wars

151
Russia and the Caucasian Wars The Caucasian Wars of Russia is a huge chapter in our storieswhich is not completed yet. Considering the events of the last almost three decades in the Caucasus, it is obvious that this region is still one of the “powder magazine” of the planet. There is an underground war in Dagestan, Ingushetia and other Caucasian republics. The extremely negative process of de-Russification of the Caucasus continues, leading to the further archaization of the region. Thanks to the long connivance of local and central authorities, radical forms of Islam have been revived, emissaries of Muslim countries prepared and continue to prepare the region for separation from Russia and for war with the “infidels” (including loyal Muslims). Already whole generations have been brought up in the spirit of hatred and enmity towards the Russian "occupiers" (tsarist, Soviet and federal). Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries are happy to host Muslim youth from Russia. Turks and Arabs assist in the opening of various educational, cultural and religious centers in Russia.

The fact that the Caucasian peoples who remained, like other citizens of Russia, without a state in which there is an integral Development Program and Target, began to look for an alternative, was completely overlooked. And they found her. Turkey and the monarchies of the Persian Gulf, all sorts of radical Muslim organizations gave them this alternative - the construction of a world caliphate. And it will be built (already built), including at the expense of our territories, resources and lives. That is why we see how this “tumor” has struck Moscow, Tatarstan, Bashkiria and even Siberia. This is the real war. The question is about our future.

At the same time, we see that after the withdrawal of Russia from the South Caucasus, new hotbeds of war were born. This is a conflict between Georgia and Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and the possibility of a full Georgian state (in particular, the issue of separating Ajaria). This is a conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh, with the involvement of Turkey. This is drawing Azerbaijan into the conflict with Iran on the side of the West and Israel, voicing plans to build "Great Azerbaijan" at the expense of Iranian territories. With the withdrawal of Russia from the South Caucasus, peace in this region ended. Azerbaijan, Georgia and Armenia are arming themselves vigorously, preparing for a forceful resolution of controversial issues. It should be noted that even now, when Russia has lost most of its influence in the region, it is a restraining factor, preventing the war of Armenia against Azerbaijan and Georgia against Abkhazia and South Ossetia to break out. In the strategic and long-term perspective, it is clear that all three Transcaucasian states are not viable and are doomed to takeover and assimilation by Turkey and Iran. As soon as the old global political system collapses completely, their “days” will be numbered. Currently, these states exist only because they were allowed to exist, it was beneficial to the United States, the Western world as a whole and Turkey.

So, we see that the history of the Caucasian Wars is far from over. The current weakness of the Russian state, the “Great Depression-2” and the growing ambitions of the states of the region (including plans to build a Caliphate, the New Ottoman Empire and the Great Azerbaijan) will surely lead to new wars in the Caucasus. We need to take into account that the Caucasian Front is one of the fronts of the new world war. The war has already been unleashed and is going on - these are Karabakh, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, the underground war in the North Caucasus, the de-Russification of the region, the growing popularity of the ideas of nationalism and radical Islam, in fact, the “manual control” regime in the North Caucasus republics.

The situation is so critical that it’s time to talk about the new accession of the Caucasus to Russia and its “pacification”. The separation of the Caucasian regions from Russia is unacceptable. First, the North Caucasus is the same part of Russia as Kamchatka, or Sakhalin. To give part of Russia to the power of radical Islamists and Russophobic nationalists is a recognition of the complete incapacity and actual betrayal of the hard work of many generations of our ancestors. It will be a betrayal of thousands and thousands of Russians who have laid down their heads, turning the lands of the Caucasus into peaceful areas where any person can live and work in peace. It will be a betrayal of those who, through their labor, carried a high civilization to these lands, built cities, enterprises, schools, health resorts.

Secondly, such a move will only further worsen the military-strategic, geopolitical, social and economic position of the Russian Federation. The consequences of secession of the North Caucasus will be disastrous. Suffice it to say that we will get directly at the border (which will still need to be identified and equipped) an aggressive, criminal enclave, like Kosovo on the Balkan Peninsula. There is another inferno zone on the planet where sales will flourish. weapons, slave trade, production and transit of drugs. Will begin raids "Highlanders" in the Russian region. On a smaller scale, we observed these negative processes during the existence of “Ichkeria”. Western countries or Turkey will get a legal opportunity to place their bases there. Russia will survive a new mass wave of migration, the flight of hundreds of thousands of Russians and representatives of the Caucasian peoples who do not want to live in the “independent” North Caucasus. Huge money will be required for additional measures of a military, police, economic and social nature. Russia will be overwhelmed by a new wave of criminal revolution and social conflicts.

In order to understand the problems of the modern Caucasus, it is necessary to become familiar with the history of the Caucasian Wars. This work will open a series of articles on the history of the Caucasian Wars. In the history of the Russian state, they are associated with almost three centuries: from the Persian campaign 1722-1723, the Caucasian war 1817-1864. before the First World War 1914-1917, the Civil War in Russia and the Chechen Wars 1990-s.

I must say that the history of the Caucasian Wars has its own rather long prehistory, which goes back to the depths of the centuries, during the existence of the Khazar Kaganate and the Ancient Russian state. In particular, the modern well-known historian Lev Prozorov in his work “The Caucasian Frontier of Rus,” notes that the Slavs have long been present in the Caucasus. So, the Slavs were participants in the wars in the Caucasus, the war between the Khazars and the Arabs, were a significant part of the population of Khazaria (its power extended to the North Caucasus). The Grand Duke Svyatoslav Igorevich defeated the Khazars and incorporated its territories into the sphere of influence of Russia, subjecting themselves to the Yasov and Kasoghs (the ancestors of the Ossetians and the Circassians). Therefore, the development of the Caucasus by the Slavs and Russia began long before not only the 19 century, but also the baptism of Russia. This gives grounds for Prozorov to assert that our Slavic ancestors are one of the indigenous peoples of the North Caucasus, and the Caucasus itself to be called from ancient times on Russian soil. Therefore, it is obvious that any demands to abandon the North Caucasus, to separate it from the Russian Federation, this is the most real betrayal of the interests of the Russian people and the Russian statehood. Your land should be protected, protected, cleaned from all sorts of "garbage" (including in human form), and not given to the aggressor.

Some wars in the Caucasus, having broken out, ended in essence with only one summer campaign. Others stretched for many years and even decades. So, the most famous part of the history of the Caucasian Wars is the Caucasian War of 1817 — 1864. However, all these wars demanded a lot of effort and resources from Russia. And most importantly, the lives of many thousands of Russians, whose memory we are now offered to betray.

With these wars, Russia in its difficult struggle with Persia, the Ottoman Empire and the Caucasian feudal lords defended their own statehood, national dignity, defended and spread the Russian limits. At the cost of hard efforts and the blood of thousands of Russian soldiers, many of the ethnic groups of the Caucasus were able to retain their peculiarity without becoming "Turks" or "Persians." With the arrival of the Russians in the Caucasus, civilians were able to live without bloody civil strife, without the threat of becoming a slave. The mountain region gained peace and the rule of law, not strength, gained hope for a cultural, scientific and educational takeoff and economic prosperity. I must say that these hopes were justified. The decades of the Caucasus as part of the Russian Empire and Soviet Union have completely transformed this region. Unfortunately, after the collapse of the USSR, the Caucasus began to quickly return to its original state.

The glorious pages of the military chronicles of Russia, which are devoted to the Caucasian wars, are trying to erase from our history in order not to raise heavy questions, not to insult small nations, to belittle and blacken the power and glory of the Russian people. Often, these pages are simply rewritten for the sake of the new political elite, when Russians are turned into “invaders” and accused of colonialism, suppression of the people's liberation movements and even the genocide of the Caucasian peoples. This is a very convenient tool in the information war waged by Western and some Eastern states against Russian civilization. At the same time, the revisionists completely turn a blind eye to the fact that many Caucasian peoples themselves called upon the Russians to save them from the yoke of the Turks (in particular, the Georgians). Or the fact that the Russian state was forced to "pacify" the North Caucasus "in response to the raids of the Highlanders in order to seize people for the sale of slavery and robbery. They forget that the level of security and well-being of the Caucasian peoples, from joining Russia, has increased dramatically. One of the consequences of this was a significant increase in the population of the Caucasus, which, before joining Russia, was sparsely populated.

Russia in the wars in the Caucasus was forced to face very serious opponents. They were the Ottoman Empire and Shah Persia in the prime of its military power, the movement of the Highlanders under the leadership of the stubborn Imam Shamil. At the same time, the opponents of the Russian state were always supported, morally, politically, financially, financially and by the instructions of the great Western powers, and above all the main geopolitical opponent of Russia in the region - England. In some conflicts, the Western powers supported Russia's enemies openly. So, in the Eastern (Crimean) War 1853-1856. on the side of the Turkish ports were England, France and Sardinia. In addition, some other European countries were ready to attack Russia.

The theater of military operations in the region was the vast expanses of the North Caucasus, Transcaucasia and the shores of the Caspian and Black Seas. The banks of the Terek, Kuban, Kura and Araks rivers, lands of North Caucasian nationalities, Armenians, Georgians, Azeris, regions of Turkey and Northern Iran were washed with blood.

In these wars, the Russian warriors showed resilience and courage, an ability that enabled them to achieve a convincing victory in the Caucasus. The Caucasian Wars gave Russia a huge constellation of military leadership talents, military skills of officers and heroism of soldiers. Studying the pages of the Caucasian wars, we will find bloody battles in the open field, equally heavy assaults and defenses of forts, fortifications, long hikes of whole armies and deep raids of troops on enemy rear lines. Each war brought honor and glory to Russian weapons.

Unfortunately, in the 1920s, the militant "internationalists" decided to reset Russian history by starting to build a new state from scratch. They staged a pogrom "cursed Tsarism." Among the pages that were destroyed and forgotten, was the chronicle of the Caucasian Wars of Russia. Most of the Russian heroes of the Caucasian Wars were superfluous in Soviet Russia. They were either generally forgotten, or ranked as “oppressors”, “stranglers of freedom”, “hangers” and “punishers”. The glorious deeds of the Caucasian War and the names of Russian warriors, statesmen who honestly gave years of their life to serving the Fatherland, became known only to a narrow circle of specialists. In the future, this trend was not overcome and the Russian people actually deprived of one of the chapters of its history. After the collapse of the USSR, the situation in this area has deteriorated further. Researchers in the newly formed states, and the North Caucasian republics of the Russian Federation, were able to “correctly” highlight the events of the Caucasian Wars.

But the Russian people have someone to be proud of! The strategic plan of Peter I, who started the Persian campaign 1722 — 1723, was completely forgotten, was going to seize the Caspian Sea, restore the trade route from Central Asia and India to Europe, and go directly to the Persian Gulf and the Indian Ocean, challenging the British. With the success of his plan, the political map of the world and the course of history could change dramatically. Only the death of the emperor prevented the implementation of the titanic plan, his heirs were already political "pygmies".

Count Valerian Zubov in the 1796 year, led by the Caspian Corps, which quickly hit Derbent, occupied Cuba and Baku. In mid-November, the 35-thousandth Russian corps under the authority of the “Golden Foot” (the general was disabled) reached the confluence area of ​​the Kura and Araks rivers, preparing for further advance into Iran. This gave a strategic opportunity to gain a foothold in northern Iran. Only the death of Catherine II destroyed the brilliant prospects. In 1791, Ivan Gudovich stormed, “Caucasian Ishmael” took the powerful fortress of Anapa. He established a reliable border along the Kuban line, attached to Russia a part of Dagestan and the Derbent khanate. Aleksey Yermolov - the pacifier of Chechnya, Gorny Dagestan and Cherkessia, the hero of the 1817-1864 Caucasian war. Ivan Paskevich - the hero of the Russian-Persian war 1826 — 1828. and the Russian-Turkish war 1828 — 1829 Conqueror of the Erivan and Nakhichevan Khanates. This series can be continued by many worthy and glorious names that took part in the conquest and pacification of the Caucasus, successfully beat the Persians and Turks, expelling them from the mountainous region.

It is possible from different positions to approach the historical justice of those or other events in the Caucasus, the need to use armed force in the conflict. Evaluate events from one side or the other. However, it is obvious that from the point of view of global politics, in strategic terms, the Russian state led a completely correct and fair policy. Globalization is a completely natural and inevitable phenomenon. Do not push the Russian borders of your state in the south to Kars and Araks, the Turks and Persians would surely complete the conquest of the Christian peoples of the Caucasus, Islamization, the assimilation of the region. The Turks would still stand at Azov, Kuban and Terek, and possibly north, up to the Middle Volga. Taking into account the policy of the Turks towards the conquered peoples, it is clear that many Caucasian peoples would simply disappear from the face of the planet, lose their peculiarity, becoming “Turks”. The entry of the Caucasus into Russia allowed the Caucasian peoples to preserve themselves, drastically increase the level of security, well-being, and multiply their numbers.
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  1. The centurion
    The centurion 5 December 2012 09: 39
    +5
    In 1791, Ivan Gudovich stormed the “Caucasian Ishmael” powerful fortress of Anapa.

    The fortress was powerful; French engineers built it for the Turks. Until now, one tower has been preserved, everything else was dismantled for building materials in the 19 century.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 5 December 2012 18: 06
      +3
      With a double festive date for everyone present!
      hi drinks wink
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 18
        +3
        Quote: Karlsonn
        With a double festive date for everyone present!

        Today is Stalin's Birthday !!
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 5 December 2012 21: 50
          0
          Yarbay
          Nope, today is Constitution Day of the USSR and the anniversary of the beginning of the counteroffensive near Moscow! drinks
  2. Yarbay
    Yarbay 5 December 2012 09: 57
    -3
    *** This is a conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh, with the involvement of Turkey. ***Is Turkey involved in it ?? Are Russia and Iran smoking aside ??
    ** This is drawing Azerbaijan into conflict with Iran on the side of the West and Israel, voicing plans for the construction of "Great Azerbaijan" at the expense of Iranian territories. ** -facts where ?? Azerbaijan does not get involved, but has not simple relations with Iran, which from the first days of Independence has been conducting a hostile policy towards Azerbaijan, openly supporting the enemy in the person of Armenia!!The occupation of part of the territory of Azerbaijan by Armenia and its claim to the territories of Turkey and Russia set forth in the Constitution of Armenia is not a desire to tonsure * Great Armenia * ??
    ** In strategic terms and in the long term, it is clear that all three Transcaucasian states are not viable and doomed to be absorbed and assimilated by Turkey and Iran. ** -and where is it clear ?? Look at the economy of Azerbaijan, at its political position!
    And why in the end is not Russia ??
    And reading further visible incompetence of the author and ignorance of the subject!
    DOUBLE !!
    Big minus
    1. Wanderer1980
      Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 11: 26
      +5
      The occupation of part of the territory of Azerbaijan by Armenia and its pretension on the territory of Turkey and Russia set forth in the Armenian Constitution is not a desire to make * Great Armenia *?


      Can you post here the text of these articles of the Constitution? Especially about Russia.
      If you find.
      Although you what? You will not find yourself compose)))))))
      These are some such territories occupied by the Republic of Azerbaijan.
      Nothing that NKR in the USSR was administratively part of the Azerbaijan SSR. According to your constitution, you are the receiver of ADR (sample 1918).
      And NKR was never part of the ADR.
      So what is the question?
      Being still the NKAR, in the distant 1988, the population of the NKAR decided in a referendum that it was withdrawing from the Azerbaijan SSR in the framework of the then Constitution of the USSR and Union Republics.
      In response to this, Azerbaijan unleashed aggression against the NKR.
      As a result of hostilities unleashed by the Azerbaijani side, NKR won.
      And now, having signed the Bishkek protocols in May 1994, Azerbaijan decided that it was occupied?
      It is you who are still continuing the occupation of two regions of the NKR, which, by the way, took for you the CIS (read Slavic) units.
      Or did you "on the sly" decide to forget the "military" successes of the Azerbaijani OMON in the operation "Ring" in 1991?
      Are you at all adequate?
      What will come to your mind tomorrow?
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 5 December 2012 11: 49
        -3
        Quote: Wanderer1980
        Nothing that NKR in the USSR was administratively part of the Azerbaijan SSR. According to your constitution, you are the receiver of ADR (sample 1918).
        And NKR was never part of the ADR.
        You are mistaken !!
        Go learn the story !!!
        The Armenian SSR was the legal successor of which state ???
        What was her territory !!
        Blogging to what and to whom Azerbaijan transferred Zangezur and Yerevan to the Armenian SSR and in exchange for what ??
        Stop living cheap propaganda!
        And we did not start a war, but your fascists, Dashnaks from all over the world, with all kinds of terror scum!
        1. Karish
          Karish 5 December 2012 13: 08
          -9
          Quote: Yarbay
          And we did not start a war, but your fascists, Dashnaks from all over the world, with all kinds of terror scum!

          Alibek, do not feed the trolls, you can not prove to someone who does not want to hear.
          They will seek the origins or causes of the turning back to the Stone Age.
          Although everything is on the surface. NKAR was an integral part of Azerbaijan, all countries recognize Azerbaijan within its borders (NKAR inside)
          IMHO and the curtain.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 5 December 2012 13: 10
            -6
            Quote: Karish
            Alibek, do not feed the trolls, you can not prove to someone who does not want to hear.

            I agree))))) weak nerves))))))))))
          2. Wanderer1980
            Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 13: 58
            +5
            Alexander, in your opinion, to have your own point of view, supported by facts, and to express to her opponent is this "troll"?

            The Republic of Armenia (1918–1920) and the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic (hereinafter ADR, 1918–1920) did not recognize each other’s borders. To the extent that on December 1, 1920, the League of Nations recognized Karabakh as a disputed territory. After the first RA and ADR were included in the USSR, they ceased to be subjects of international law, moreover, until 1923 there was a Transcaucasian republic (uniting Az Ar and Gr) whose executive bodies, under the strict guidance of Dzhugashvili, gave Karabakh and Nakhichevan - AzSSR and Javakh - GrSSR , therefore, there can be no talk of interstate borders between Arm. SSR and Az. SSR. After the collapse of the USSR, Armenia and Azerbaijan declared themselves the successors of the pre-Soviet independent republics, but did not sign any mutual border treaties. That is, the Armenian-Azerbaijani border, from the point of view of international law, is currently not defined. Moreover, since then no country has signed an agreement with Azerbaijan on the recognition of all its borders. Even with Georgia, a bilateral agreement on the demarcation of the Georgian-Azerbaijani border has not yet been signed!
            So that "with their own .... yes in a Kalashny row", would have pulled up on the factual base.
            They will seek the origins or causes of the turning back to the Stone Age.

            We have only had questions with the Turks since the 12th century. Before that, they grazed sheep beyond Altai. I, of course, have heard that a mummy of 2 million years old was found in Azerbaijan and proudly declared an "Azerpitecus")))), but it seems to me that this is a fake))
            1. tekinoral
              tekinoral 5 December 2012 14: 21
              0
              Quote: Wanderer1980
              We have only had questions with the Turks since the 12th century. Before that, they grazed sheep beyond Altai. I, of course, have heard that a mummy of 2 million years old was found in Azerbaijan and proudly declared an "Azerpitecus")))), but it seems to me that this is a fake))


              David: you grazed sheep, and we conquered territories and ruled the Middle East, when we arrived you didn’t even have a state a long time ago, so do not write that you have problems with the Turks since the 12th century.
              1. Feroma
                Feroma 5 December 2012 17: 11
                0
                About the sheep grazed right to the point. Although I do not support you
            2. kNow
              kNow 5 December 2012 16: 35
              -2
              Wanderer1980,
              Write smoothly. And nothing that Karabakh is the internationally recognized territory of Azerbaijan, and no one recognized the "independence of the NKR", including Armenia, and are not going to recognize it. Including Russia ...
              1. Wanderer1980
                Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 17: 03
                -1
                Amadeus, a long time ago you were not visible. How is the weather in Baku? In Moscow, a terrible mess. That snow, then rain, now the frost hit.
                And as for the borders of the Republic of Azerbaijan, how can someone recognize them at the international level if you have not yet defined them with your neighbors?
                Those. tomorrow you will say that the international community recognizes you within such borders))))))):

                Who recognized you after 05/1994?
                1. kNow
                  kNow 5 December 2012 17: 07
                  -1
                  How quiet it WAS without you ... or was I in hibernation?

                  Quote: Wanderer1980
                  Those. tomorrow you will say that the international community recognizes you within such borders))))))):

                  By the way, why don’t you recognize nykyrs? bench press? wassat
                  1. Wanderer1980
                    Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 17: 15
                    0
                    We do not recognize the NKR, because we do not want "funerals" to come to homes.
                    So that your father does not have another attack, from the fact that you lose.
                    1. kNow
                      kNow 5 December 2012 17: 25
                      0
                      Quote: Wanderer1980
                      We do not recognize the NKR, because we do not want "funerals" to come to homes.

                      Your father, unlike mine, does not face a "funeral". For you, unlike us, comfortably settled down in snowy Moscow. There though

                      Quote: Wanderer1980
                      In Moscow, a terrible leapfrog

                      but safer :)
                2. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 5 December 2012 17: 14
                  -1
                  Quote: Wanderer1980
                  that the international community recognizes you within such borders

                  Where do we go to you ??
                  Quote: Wanderer1980
                  Who recognized you after 05/1994?

                  Well, continue to troll, in your opinion every year the state should others recognize again ??)))))
                  1. Wanderer1980
                    Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 17: 26
                    -1
                    From November 22, 1920, this territory correctly looks like this

                    In your opinion, should states be recognized annually by others?

                    So I'm talking about too.
                    You have recognized yourself as the legal successors of ADR 1918
                    And you want, at the same time, that you are recognized within the borders of the Azerbaijan SSR!
                    Where is the logic???
                    There is no border agreement between Azerbaijan and Armenia.
                    Those. the international community of course recognizes your borders.
                    But, since it also recognizes the borders of Armenia,
                    he asks Armenia and Azerbaijan to resolve this issue among themselves.
                    As part of the negotiations.

                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 5 December 2012 17: 39
                      -1
                      Quote: Wanderer1980
                      But, since it also recognizes the borders of Armenia,

                      Well, you are stupid)))
                      You may not know international law and history, it’s normal, not all shoemakers are scientists, but you don’t know such simple things illiteracy! Although you often shoemakers are scientists)))
                      Armenia is recognized within certain borders, which does not include Nagorno-Karabakh, nor the territories occupied by Armenia))))))))))))
                      1. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 17: 58
                        -1
                        And NKR never entered the Republic of Armenia.
                        This is an independent state.
                        So what does Armenia have to do with it?
                        If you lost some lands as a result of aggression against the NKR, then this is for you in Stepanakert.
                        Talk with them.
                        Moreover, internationally recognized borders wink
                        There, everyone recognized the Russian Federation within the same borders. In the past, or something, they gave the year to China.
                        What, now the world community will recognize the Russian Federation in new borders ????
                        Alibek. Even you should be ashamed.
                        In international law, "recognition of borders" is valid until the appearance of the term border with neighboring states. If Azerbaijan presents an agreement concluded by it with Yerevan on the borders between them, then from the very minute this happens, international law will consider the borders of Azerbaijan - "defined"
                        Until then, the wording means "Yes. Azerbaijan exists, but its borders are being negotiated with its neighbors."
                        What is not clear here?
                      2. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: Wanderer1980
                        In international law, "recognition of borders" is valid until the appearance of the term border with neighboring states

                        Do not write nonsense))))))))))))
                        go study!!))))))))))
                        In Moscow there are good, competent teachers in international law !!!
                        I can give the address))
                        Quote: Wanderer1980
                        Until then, the wording means "Yes. Azerbaijan exists, but its borders are being negotiated with its neighbors."

                        There is no such wording on Azerbaijan, since all countries, including all international organizations, recognized Azerbaijan within the borders in which it is marked, without any reservations !!))))
                        And the non-recognition of the borders of Azerbaijan by Armenia does not put Azerbaijan on the border of that wording and does not question the sovereignty of Azerbaijan over its territories)
                        )))))
                        That Japan has not signed a peace treaty with either the USSR or Russia and does not recognize the Kuril Islands as Russia, and that this puts the Kuril Islands outside of Russian sovereignty under international law ??)))))
                        Well, just the dark kingdom in your head !!
                        We will knock out nothing))))))))
                      3. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 18: 44
                        -1
                        A mark on the map is an icon that is described by text. Those. in order for the mark to appear on the map, it is required, in the case of defining borders, an agreement in which two parties located on opposite sides of the border agree among themselves on where this point will be.
                        So, Azerbaijan has no such agreements that will describe its so-called "internationally recognized borders" in the form of specific points, with specific coordinates, neither with Armenia, nor with Georgia. Nor with Iran by sea. So what are these cards
                        in which he is marked, without reservation
                        ?
                      4. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 5 December 2012 19: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Wanderer1980
                        Those. in order for the mark to appear on the map, it is required, in the case of defining borders, an agreement in which two parties located on opposite sides of the border agree among themselves on where this point will be

                        Where is it required, by what right?))))
                        Show a link to the fact that any country other than Armenia considers the territory of Azerbaijan controversial?))))))))))))))))))
            3. Yarbay
              Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 27
              -1
              Quote: Wanderer1980
              Republic of Armenia (1918–1920)

              Links to the studio))))))))))))))))))))))) Where was she?))))))))))))
              Quote: Wanderer1980
              To the extent that on December 1, 1920, the League of Nations recognized Karabakh as a disputed territory.

              Where are the documents, facts ??
        2. Wanderer1980
          Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 14: 24
          +3
          The Armenian SSR appeared as part of the USSR, separating itself from the Transcaucasian Republic. Not being the "successor" of anyone and anything.
          In 1917, the Russian Empire stopped participating in the First World War and the Bolsheviks focused on suppressing resistance within Russia.
          At this time, hostilities continued in the Armenian Highlands between the troops of the Ottoman Empire and its opponents in the anti-German Entente bloc. Together with the British troops, the invasion of Nuri Pasha in 1918 on the territory of the Talysh, Lezghin, Armenian lands was opposed by the Armenian troops. In 1918, the Ottoman Empire, together with Germany, lost in the First World War. The Turks are forced by the terms of the concluded peace to withdraw their troops from the territory of the Caucasus. To resolve this issue, in 1918 they created an "Ottoman Empire" in miniature under the name "Azerbaijan" taken from the Iranian province. And the Turks, living on the lands they had just seized from the autochthonous peoples, began to call themselves, by 1936, Azerbaijanis.
          Then, after Lenin, under the terms of the Moscow Treaty, gave Turkey 50% of the territory of Armenia within the borders of 1914, the Caucasian Bureau in 1923 decides to create the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous District and the Nakhchivan Autonomous Socialist Republic within the AzSSR. Stalin wanted to give Syunik (Zangezur) to the AzSSR (thereby punishing Armenia for too long resistance to Soviet power), but realized in time that the border with Iran and Turkey only through Muslim Azerbaijan could then cost dearly, left Syunik as part of the Armenian SSR. Just a year and a half earlier, two ethnic Georgians, in the spirit of the prevailing "friendship of peoples" in the USSR, refused the request (what a nice word) of the Armenian comrades to be included in the Armenian SSR still (2012 in the courtyard) populated by more than 50% of Armenians Javakha.
          But let us return to the loved ones in Azerbaijan, ready even now to grant the NKR "the widest autonomy" in its composition, to the autonomies of Nakhichevan and Karabakh. So, since 1923, when the Armenians were the majority of the population in Nakhijevan, by 1987, when there were no more Armenians left in Nakhijevan, the leadership of the AzSSR carried out a systematic policy to erase the traces of the historical stay and residence of Armenians in Nakhijevan. Realizing and realistically feeling that the same policy is being pursued in Karabakh, people, within the framework of the Constitution of the USSR and the Union republics, held a referendum to decide their fate within the USSR and asked (by the absolute majority of the population) to withdraw them from the AzSSR and enter into the Armenian SSR.
          In response to this, the events of 02/1988 happened. in the city of Sumgait. Then pogroms swept across Azerbaijan.
          In 1991 in the city of Stepanakert, for more than half a year the so-called "troops" of Azerbaijan, every single day fired from Aghdam, using BM-21 (or simply "Grad") installations.
          Here below is your friend from Israel. So the Palestinians shoot at Israel with self-made cashiers once every five years, the Jews have an "Iron Dome", and, nevertheless, they are somehow "wary" about the Palestinians.
          And how should the carbakhians relate to you?
          Or is the killing of civilians in Stepanakert from 1991 to 1992 not acts of aggression?
          Moreover, these actions were your official military units.
          1. kNow
            kNow 5 December 2012 16: 41
            -2
            Listen to the smart guy, you will push your "history" mixed with your crappy propaganda in another place, here you have already answered thousands of times like you.
            I don’t want to answer you and arrange srach ... Tired of your agitation ...
          2. Feroma
            Feroma 5 December 2012 17: 18
            +1
            Wanderer1980 I wonder who you are by profession, where did I google a little "knowledge" here - a ton of information has surfaced that can be read for years, and you spread the numbers, years so smoothly - you have something written in your notebook. So out of curiosity
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 5 December 2012 17: 20
              0
              Quote: Feroma
              I wonder who you are by profession, from where I googled a little "knowledge" - a ton of information has surfaced that can be read for years, and you spread the numbers, years so smoothly - you have written something in your notebook.

              And most importantly, they answered him a thousand times with numbers and dishonored, but to no avail !!))))))))
              1. Wanderer1980
                Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 17: 41
                -1
                Articles from the Constitution))))))))))))))
                You started from this today
            2. kNow
              kNow 5 December 2012 17: 22
              +1
              Quote: Feroma
              I wonder who you are by profession, where did I google a little "knowledge" here - a ton of information has surfaced that can be read for years, and you spread the numbers, years so smoothly - you have something written in your notebook. So out of curiosity

              Regular disinfectant agitator
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 5 December 2012 17: 42
                +1
                Quote: kNow
                Regular disinfectant agitator

                Site vaksapanat or vaskapanat or voskapalata not reprimand))))))))))))
                1. kNow
                  kNow 5 December 2012 17: 50
                  0
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Site vaksapanat or vaskapanat or voskapalata not reprimand))))))))))))

                  student of Levon Shahnazaryan, deserterotharmia smeared laughing

                  Yarbay, look how cool they ate a live rabbit, see from 0:43, very hungry laughing
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BZuJeWJz6XA
            3. Wanderer1980
              Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 18: 10
              -2
              I am an entrepreneur by profession.
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 40
                +2
                Quote: Wanderer1980

                I am an entrepreneur by profession.

                An entrepreneur is not a profession))))))))))))))))))
          3. Yarbay
            Yarbay 5 December 2012 17: 26
            +1
            Quote: Wanderer1980
            The Armenian SSR appeared as part of the USSR, isolating itself from the Transcaucasian republic

            And before that, what happened to Armenia ??))))) and how did it appear in the Transcaucasian republics !!))) ??
            Quote: Wanderer1980
            how Lenin, under the terms of the Moscow Treaty, gave Turkey 50% of the territory of Armenia within the borders of 1914

            What territory of Armenia, you said that Armenia was not someone else's legal successor ??
            How did you determine that the territory was donated?)))))
            Quote: Wanderer1980
            Stalin also wanted to give Syunik (Zangezur) to the Azerbaijan SSR

            Zangezur even before Stalin and Lenin, just as Yerevan were in the Composition of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic, how could Stalin give it to the Azerbaijan SSR?)))) On the contrary, at the request of the Russian Communists, Zangezur was transferred * to the communist ARSSR * and Yerevan so that the ARSSR had the capital, in exchange for peace and good neighborliness !!
            Two in history to you)))


            For some reason, even before the Order of the Republic, there were the Azerbaijan Republic and the Georgian Republic, but there was no Armenian after))))))
            1. Wanderer1980
              Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 17: 52
              -2
              And before that, what happened to Armenia?

              And there was no such state before, Alibek.
              Thanks to the nomads since the 12th century was not.
              Part of Armenia was under the oppression of the Ottoman Empire.
              Part of Armenia near Persia.
              Part near Russia.
              So that you are not surprised, Azerbaijan is above the river. Arax was not there until 1918 either.
              There was a province in Persia called "Azerbaijan".
              And the Russians on the land that are now proudly called "Azerbaijan" fought with the Turks, almost the entire First World War.

              How did you determine that the territory was donated?

              Lenin gave Turkey Ataturk, and not the Ottoman Empire (although the eggs are the same, only a side view) of the land that was part of the Russian Empire, subordinate to the Russian Tsar, historically inhabited by Armenians. Those lands that the Russians have always considered Armenian, and for which, the Armenians fought shoulder to shoulder with the Russians against the Turks.

              Zangezur before Stalin and Lenin, as well as Yerevan were in the Composition of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic

              The history of Syunik (as you say Zangezur) is famous for the fact that for the entire First World War, the Civil, up to the establishment of Soviet power in the territory of the ArmSSR, the leg of the Turkish Asker was not able to set foot on this land.
              1. kNow
                kNow 5 December 2012 18: 02
                +2
                Quote: Wanderer1980
                Lenin gave Turkey Ataturk, and not the Ottoman Empire (although the eggs are the same, only a side view) of the land that was part of the Russian Empire, subordinate to the Russian Tsar, historically inhabited by Armenians. Those lands that the Russians have always considered Armenian, and for which, the Armenians fought shoulder to shoulder with the Russians against the Turks.

                I will allow myself to doubt that the Russians fought with the Turks over the Armenians .... There was an empire, there were state interests, and you did so, sideways ... But in general, rightfully - Armenia is a native Russian land, good for it more Russian blood was shed than Armenian, and now Russia defends and feeds it, and all Armenians, like you, have scattered across Russia.
                1. Wanderer1980
                  Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 18: 03
                  -1
                  were state interests


                  I agree.
                  They just coincide with us ...
                  1. kNow
                    kNow 5 December 2012 18: 06
                    +2
                    Quote: Wanderer1980
                    I agree.
                    They just coincide with us ...

                    You, for your happiness, are within these interests. And without you, relations between Russia and Turkey would be much more rosy.
              2. Yarbay
                Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 16
                +2
                Quote: Wanderer1980
                Part of Armenia was under the oppression of the Ottoman Empire.
                Part of Armenia near Persia.
                Part near Russia.

                From what century were these units under oppression?))))))))))))))))
                Quote: Wanderer1980
                Lenin gave Turkey Ataturk, and not the Ottoman Empire (although the eggs are the same, only a side view) of the land that belonged to the Russian Empire, subordinate to the Russian Tsar, historically inhabited by Armenians

                And before Lenin, whose territories were these? Which state did they belong to?))))))
                Quote: Wanderer1980
                Those lands that the Russians have always considered Armenian, and for which, the Armenians fought shoulder to shoulder with the Russians against the Turks.

                Link to the studio)))))
                So now it’s just Russians thought so yes ???
                Solely because the Armenians fought shoulder to shoulder against the Turks?)
                That is, David, you finally admit that they were not the territory of Armenia, but just the Russians thought so, and then counted differently?))))))
                ))
                Quote: Wanderer1980
                The history of Syunik (as you say Zangezur) is famous for the fact that for the entire First World War, the Civil, up to the establishment of Soviet power in the territory of the ArmSSR, the leg of the Turkish asker was not able to set foot on this land
                Don't say nonsense))))))))))))Asker’s leg always stepped there, until 88 years there were mostly Azerbaijanis !!))))
                Well, you have a blown story)))))
                1. Wanderer1980
                  Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 18: 32
                  -2
                  And before Lenin, whose territories were

                  Before Lenin, these territories were conquered from Turkey and Persia by the Russian Empire. Just like the land itself, which is now proudly called "Azerbaijan".
                  until 88, most of the Azerbaijanis lived

                  I myself am from Syunik. Specifically from Sisian. He visited Goris, Meghri, Kapan, in different villages.
                  Near Sisian was the village of Shekki. The Azerbaijanis lived there. By the way, the village was empty not in 1988, but in 1991. There were 20 such villages in the Syunik region. For the entire region. And you say. And then, these peasants were never askers. They may have become them when they left for Azerbaijan and they were taken into the army. And before that, pure shepherds.
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 39
                    +2
                    Quote: Wanderer1980
                    Before Lenin, these territories were conquered from Turkey and Persia by the Russian Empire. Just like the land itself, which is now proudly called "Azerbaijan".

                    When ??))))) And where does Armenia?)))
                    Quote: Wanderer1980
                    I myself am from Syunik.

                    how old are you???
                    There are only Azerbaijanis and lived for the most part)))))))))
    2. Karish
      Karish 5 December 2012 13: 03
      -10
      Quote: Yarbay
      DOUBLE !!
      Big minus

      Good morning Alibek!
      The article is a huge minus, the coverage of events is one-sided and tendentious. Russia has made and continues to make quite a few efforts (which in general is combined with its foreign policy line) and the weakening of the free Caucasus states like Georgia and Azerbaijan is consistent with Russian politics.
      Who is interested in strong neighbors - that is why Abkhazia and Ossetia were torn off. Therefore, Russia supports Armenia (together with Iran) to weaken Azerbaijan and Turkey. Nick doesn’t say that Russia is made of this good or bad - it’s its goals in line with its global politics and interests.
      Just an article minus - for fairy tales laughing
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 5 December 2012 13: 12
        -1
        Quote: Karish
        Who cares about strong neighbors -

        That's right !!! ++++++
        Quote: Karish
        Nick doesn’t say that Russia is made of this good or bad - it’s its goals in line with its global politics and interests.

        Good girl !!!!
        The normal policy of the Empire !!
      2. Feroma
        Feroma 5 December 2012 17: 39
        -2
        Karish The author of the squad of cheers patriots. Particularly pleased with the phrase - many ethnic groups in the Caucasus were given the opportunity to preserve their identity without becoming "Turks" or "Persians." With the arrival of Russians in the Caucasus, civilians got the opportunity to live without bloody feuds, without the threat of becoming a slave. The mountainous region has gained peace and the rule of law, and not strength, has gained hope for a cultural, scientific and educational take-off and economic prosperity. I must say that these hopes were realized. As they say in Baghdad, everything is calm, quiet and smooth. Russia's arrival in the Caucasus and illiterate politics (namely: betting on one clan, respectively weakening the positions of other clans, which probably threw them into the arms of Turkey and Saudi Arabia), in my opinion, strengthened the time bomb, which we are now observing. Without genuine democratic reforms, deposition of clans to achieve any result is not possible.
        This is just my opinion!
      3. Ascetic
        Ascetic 5 December 2012 22: 00
        +5
        Quote: Karish
        Who is interested in strong neighbors - that is why Abkhazia and Ossetia were torn off. Therefore, Russia supports Armenia (together with Iran) to weaken Azerbaijan and Turkey. Nick doesn’t say that Russia is made of this good or bad - it’s its goals in line with its global politics and interests.


        Azerbaijan should in every way wish for the speedy overthrow of the Bashar al-Assad regime in Syria and the coming to power of a puppet, preferably spineless government, such as in Afghanistan and Iraq. Embittered by Tehran for its support of Assad, Syrian rebels, having come to power, may even allow Americans and Turks to deploy their bases in the east of the country and even closer to Iran. Now in the west the mullocratic regime will not have a single friendly country. Thus, the next in the plans of the United States will be the long-awaited Iran.
        As for the second and, perhaps, the last channel for the supply of “oxygen” to Armenia - For Russia, then Baku should also wish for its weakening, and ideally, for fragmentation and collapse. True, economic weakening will affect millions of Azerbaijanis making money in Russia today. But this will also lead to losses among Armenian guest workers and, consequently, to a decrease in transfers to their “long-suffering” homeland. It will be somehow easier for hydrocarbon Azerbaijan to withstand these losses than Armenia with its idle enterprises. Azerbaijan has already begun to work in this direction, defying Gazprom’s monopoly in Europe. Alternative ways of transporting natural resources will affect Russia's income and will symmetrically affect its defense spending and maintaining a huge country afloat.
        Azerbaijani political analyst Aydin Melik-Mirzoev.
        My webpage
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 5 December 2012 22: 18
          +4
          Quote: Karish
          Russia has made and continues to make quite a few efforts (which in general is combined with its foreign policy line) and the weakening of the free Caucasus states like Georgia and Azerbaijan is consistent with Russian politics.

          Russia has weakened Azerbaijan so much that I really want to cry like a miserable impoverished Azerbaijani diaspora, led by Aliyev’s daughters, one of whom officially became engaged to her Moscow’s son multimillionaire... And the Heydar Aliyev Foundation was also banned along with other NGOs or not? Stop doing demagoguery. But it strengthens Israel, in exchange for the possibility of using the airfields left after the USSR in the event of a war with Iran.

          In the same spirit of hostility towards Russia, Azerbaijani human rights activists from Public Association for Human Rights - Haqqin.az(do they exist using Israeli money?)
          AZERBAIJAN DECLARES THE WAR OF RUSSIA
          The authorities turned to an open confrontation with the Kremlin.
          My webpage
          From the headlines alone it becomes so scary that one wants to laugh as well as over the next demagogic slogans of Karish. about the imperial manners of Russia.
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay 6 December 2012 16: 06
          +1
          Quote: Ascetic
          Azerbaijani political analyst Aydin Melik-Mirzoev.
          Stanislav, but I don’t think so !!
          Do you personally know this political scientist ???
          As for Iran, I would like to get it in the face !! As for Syria, I am for Assad !!
      4. Region-25.rus
        Region-25.rus 6 December 2012 10: 36
        +1
        Quote: Karish
        Russia has made and continues to make quite a few efforts (which in general is combined with its foreign policy line) and the weakening of the free Caucasus states like Georgia and Azerbaijan is consistent with Russian politics.


        Who would weaken you if after the collapse they would not rush to shit and shit in every possible way, whoever warmed you up and raised you in due time! How much you have thrown into the republics to the detriment of your (Russian) regions, you've probably forgotten already! Yes ... the memory of generations is short! And now you are simply being used blindly by overseas (and not only) "friends", they are playing off as they want! And ... they need you like the fifth wheel of a cart! They need access to the Caspian at least! And there you all measure up with someone longer and thicker! Not Russia if ... so long ago everyone would speak Turkish! Or the Armenians have forgotten that they were white-skinned and red-haired in their time! How did the Ottomans slaughter your men and you paid tribute to them with wine, virgins and boys? Yes .... forgot! Or did Russia ban national languages ​​and customs? Yes, many and writing did not have their own pancake! Until now they write "proud Caucasians" in Cyrillic!
    3. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 5 December 2012 14: 47
      -3
      Yarbay hi
      Greetings. I read the article and arrive in prostration request . We started for health, and then the horses rushed. The first time this author meets this, maybe I missed something? Complete mess, I sincerely hope that further promised articles will contain less pearl barley.
      A lot of questions arose for the author, and his assessments and analysis are completely bewildering. Outlining his provocative passages about Azerbaijan and Armenia, which are not clear from what and where they came from, I will speak about the following outrageous paragraph:
      ... Unfortunately, in the 1920 years belay this is where and why all of a sudden ?! did the spherical horse dance? maybe too early to write analytics?
      Set article - minus for provocative and messy.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 5 December 2012 14: 59
        0
        Quote: Karlsonn
        Unfortunately, in the 1920s, where did this come from and why ?! did the spherical horse dance? maybe too early to write analytics?
        Set article - minus for provocative and messy.

        I agree with you that I have never seen anything like this with the author!
        The question is, my opinion is that Russia was an Empire and naturally its inhabitants want to see their country again as an Empire and this is a normal desire, which I understand if it is not connected with the desire to exterminate other peoples!
        If I were Russian, I would definitely be with imperial thinking!
        Another thing is that the article is trying to tell us that there is * good * imperialism and * bad *, and that Russia has always been * good * Empire !!
        Well, this is good for schoolchildren, but agree not for us!
        And then someone used to say that there are no former empires, I agree!
        As for modern politics, too, I think the author gave the vinigret that one !!
        1. vlbelugin
          vlbelugin 5 December 2012 15: 39
          +8
          Interestingly Yarbay,
          Here I am a Russian, Soviet officer in reserve, I DO NOT Suffer with imperial thinking. Separated and glory to God, and to whom be glory to Allah. Live and multiply. But do not meddle with your ambitions, the ambitions of the poor, to Russia. Take back Azerbaijanis, Armenians, Georgians. Let them return to their historical homeland.
          And then the Russians scoffed at you, harassed you all your life. So you have your own states well, "cut" there. No. They eat our bread, earn money from us to support their families and still shit on Russians. Well, if we are so bad, why can't your Azeris, Armenians, Georgians get out of Russia?
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 5 December 2012 16: 00
            0
            Quote: vlbelugin
            Soviet officer in reserve, DO NOT SUFFER imperial thinking

            I am also a reserve officer, and I am not suffer imperial thinking!
            I said that I am sympathetic!
            Quote: vlbelugin
            Take back Azerbaijanis, Armenians, Georgians. Let them return to their historical homeland.

            Explain to me, I sent or handed over to you Azerbaijanis, Armenians and others to take me?
            Quote: vlbelugin
            And then the Russians all your life mocked, oppressed.

            Well, in general, everything is clear with you, I have no desire to communicate in this spirit! If there really is a conversation, get yourself in order and your thoughts, then please talk!
            ** Well, if we are so bad, why can't you "kick out" your Azerbaijanis, Armenians, Georgians from Russia? ** - you know, we also don’t kick the Russians out, and unlike your cave mentality, we’re not going to kick them out !!!!
          2. Region-25.rus
            Region-25.rus 6 December 2012 10: 41
            +2
            Quote: vlbelugin
            Take back Azerbaijanis, Armenians, Georgians. Let them return to their historical homeland.


            Armenians especially)) I worked somehow, I had to ... "All polls from Yerevan, all polls are builders with diplomas, all fucking architects" laughing I can't look at their "masterpieces" of arched cubism without tears! How many projects were reshaped after these "brilliant builders" do not count! wassat
            1. donchepano
              donchepano 6 December 2012 18: 10
              +1
              Quote: Region-25.rus
              How many projects were reshaped after these "brilliant builders" do not count!


              The greatest masterpiece of their achievements is light bulbs. )))
              Such shit burns out in a week. as usual, they stole something .. most likely they didn’t report chrome, or instead of it simple iron was fixed
        2. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 5 December 2012 15: 49
          +2
          Yarbay
          better on you drinks .
          Absolutely agree; here I have imperial thinking and mentality, which I’m not embarrassed about or inconvenience bully ; neither as a Russian, nor as an imperialist, and even more so as a communist, I did not feel the desire to flee somewhere and destroy someone, and I do not, if seriously:
          ...
          Quote: Yarbay
          there is * good * imperialism and * bad *

          this author just kills me, like so many others, imperialism it just is, there are different consequences for the peoples involved in the orbit of the Empire’s activities, in Russia they are what they are and as a Russian I can’t lie that we like the heavenly army all the way to all carried happiness. I say this directly without regard to the currently popular Russophobian position in the world. History, as you know, does not know the subjunctive mood!
          As an imperialist, I don’t feel remorse and regrets (woe to the vanquished!), When we had to bend the manes from Poland to the Pacific Ocean pursuing our policy of imperialism and, well, if someone is not happy with something, I personally don’t give a damn about the Ostankino tower laughing .
          For me, only what is good for Russia is important (it is a priori good for me, everything else is evil, respectively) and for the nations and peoples friendly to Russia, the opinions, desires and rights of everyone else are simply not interesting No. .

          Quote: Yarbay
          As for modern politics, too, I think the author gave the vinigret that one !!


          I subscribe, historical articles by the author are very, very, but the analyst of the present is like Pikul request .
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 5 December 2012 16: 04
            0
            Quote: Karlsonn
            imperialism it just is, there are different consequences for the peoples involved in the orbit of the Empire’s activities, in Russia they are what they are and as a Russian I can’t lie that we, like the heavenly army, brought happiness all the way to everyone. I say this directly without regard to the currently popular Russophobian position in the world. History, as you know, does not know the subjunctive mood!

            I completely agree!!
            Nothing to add, although it was very interesting to talk !!
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 5 December 2012 16: 29
              +2
              Yarbay
              it is mutual!
              In principle, we gathered here for this drinks .
  3. smel
    smel 5 December 2012 09: 59
    +2
    A good article. PLUS. Although some of the calculations are not indisputable from my point of view. I hope that the continuation, as promised, will follow.
  4. General_Nogay
    General_Nogay 5 December 2012 10: 26
    -7
    At the cost of the hard efforts and blood of thousands of Russian soldiers, many ethnic groups in the Caucasus were given the opportunity to preserve their identity without becoming “Turks” or “Persians.”
    But today, shouting enough to feed the Caucasus, Russia for the Russians, don’t dance the lezginka! You want us to assimilate. And by the way, we retained our feature only because we did not want to be yours or anyone else's puppets, but not because you allowed us to save it!
    Article minus, you deuce!
    And with such a policy that is now going on in Russia before the separation of the Caucasus, there is very little time left! So we'll wait!
    1. vyatom
      vyatom 5 December 2012 11: 45
      +9
      And what is the policy now in Russia? In my understanding, the Caucasus is very comfortable now. Moscow allocates a lot of money for maintenance. In which case you can instantly hide in the mountain villages.
      Or do you want Soviet methods when whole nations moved to Kazakhstan, to the bare steppe? Then no one asked the peoples of the Caucasus whether they want to separate or not. And especially no one was indignant.
      1. General_Nogay
        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 11: 49
        +1
        We landed on the ground! Moscow allocates a lot of money to itself and the same thieves as themselves! There will be no more Soviet methods!
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 5 December 2012 12: 06
          +4
          Quote: General_Nogay
          money for yourself and the same thieves as yourself!

          And then Moscow, change officials, transplant bribe takers. You don’t want to, but expect Moscow to solve all problems, but have you tried it yourself?
          1. General_Nogay
            General_Nogay 5 December 2012 12: 20
            +2
            Have tried. On the example of the same Vinogradov. He only laughed when they started shooting at him, and they all went fat on the law ... The result is that all bureaucrats understand only power, and not a law that can be rewritten for you!
            1. donchepano
              donchepano 5 December 2012 15: 44
              0
              Quote: General_Nogay
              Have tried. On the example of the same Vinogradov. He only laughed when they started shooting at him, and they all went fat on the law ... The result is that all bureaucrats understand only power, and not a law that can be rewritten for you!

              grape to the wall!
    2. Karish
      Karish 5 December 2012 13: 13
      -5
      [quote = General_Nogay] At the cost of the hard efforts and blood of thousands of Russian soldiers, many ethnic groups in the Caucasus got the opportunity to preserve their identity without becoming “Turks” or “Persians.” [/ quote
      only how much are many of them say thank you with a bagpipe in their hands.
      ] And this can be seen from the endless war in these republics, to the displacement of Russians from these republics and regions and somehow far from friendly relations between one and the other. Though in the Caucasus, even inside Russia.
      I understand that the Russians would like for the territories to remain, and all the Caucasians would have evaporated somewhere. It just doesn’t happen like that.
      Be brotherly - get brothers. And when you speak from the perspective of an older brother, the younger one is constantly offended.
      1. General_Nogay
        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 17: 46
        +2
        Let them say sensible things from the perspective of an older brother, then no one will be offended!
      2. Region-25.rus
        Region-25.rus 6 December 2012 10: 54
        +2
        Quote: Karish
        And when you speak from the perspective of an older brother, the younger one is constantly offended.


        And what did the "younger brothers" do to grow to the level of equals? And your insults are just a complex of mediocrity! Nifiga can't and don't want to study! it's easier to punch yourself in the chest and shout - "Caucasus Foreva!" rather than create! That, in Grozny, after the arrival of Dudayev, the students did not come to the deans with school-books and trunks aimed at the bridge of the nose? Now you have been given a place in universities! And, like, you study there, acquire specialties? It's hard to believe! With difficulties! Given the mentality! (we want to have everything, and at the same time do not do nifiga! but just go and get high) And first-hand information (I have acquaintances from both capitals who can see everything nearby and live, and have seen a lot of things myself) So no need here fill in about the brotherhood of both seniors and juniors!
    3. webdog
      webdog 5 December 2012 14: 43
      +1
      hey, homebrew "general", are you already destabilizing here?
      wherever I go, wherever the national question, this general, is not even indirectly raised, this general))) here it is ...
      not a general you ...
      and a young player in con strike))))))))))
      I represent the "general"))))))))))))))))):
      VERY harsh "warrior")))))))))))))
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 5 December 2012 14: 53
        +2
        Quote: webdog
        hey, homebrew "general", are you already destabilizing here?

        Well, to whom did you write this?
        1. donchepano
          donchepano 5 December 2012 15: 46
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Well, to whom did you write this?



          to someone who knows. It's a secret. A military secret)
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 5 December 2012 16: 05
            +3
            Quote: donchepano

            to someone who knows. It's a secret. A military secret)

            But still, handsome))))))))))))
            so serious))
    4. Region-25.rus
      Region-25.rus 6 December 2012 10: 46
      +2
      Quote: General_Nogay
      Enough to feed the Caucasus, Russia for the Russians, don’t dance the lezginka!


      The day is clear! If you danced your lezginka in designated places, and did not climb with your primitive cave customs (shooting from a wedding cortege at cars, etc.) and beat cheap pans less in the style - "I am from the Caucasus and therefore I owe everything and everything", would behave like civilized people who would tell you what! And ... if only you worked and were useful! so basically more harm! I do not consider any companies based on money made on speculation, drugs and other things to be a business! Of course, we have enough of our own but! but! we'll figure it out ourselves! okay? And you, come here exclusively to rob and steal! workers from the Caucasus are worse than the Chinese! Believe me, there is something to compare!
  5. Volkh
    Volkh 5 December 2012 10: 32
    -1
    Yarbay,
    I agree completely
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 5 December 2012 11: 51
      -1
      Quote: WOLF
      I agree completely

      thank))))
      and who is this girl on your avatar?)))
      Goes well, that is, walks)))
      1. Cavas
        Cavas 5 December 2012 14: 50
        +3
        Quote: Yarbay
        and who is this girl on your avatar?)))
        Goes well, that is, walks)))

        Alibek, stop is only an avatar!)))
        Not a single skirt will slip past !!)))
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 5 December 2012 15: 56
          +5
          Quote: Cavas
          Alibek, stop is only an avatar!)))
          Not a single skirt will slip past !!)))

          You will be led with Romanov and you will not see this)))))))))))))
          1. Cavas
            Cavas 5 December 2012 16: 07
            +2
            Quote: Yarbay
            You will be led with Romanov and you will not see this)))))))))))))

            Yeah.....)))
            There is power and there is will, but there is no will power!)))
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 5 December 2012 16: 33
              +2
              Cavas

              I can not, it is stronger than me winked
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 5 December 2012 16: 44
                +2
                Quote: Karlsonn
                I can not, it is stronger than me

                Are we extinct like mammoths)))))))))))))
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 5 December 2012 16: 57
                  +2
                  Yarbay
                  Apparently, he conducted a brief express survey among the male part of employees with a demo showing - this does not threaten us!
            2. Yarbay
              Yarbay 5 December 2012 16: 45
              +5
              Quote: Cavas
              Yeah.....)))
              There is power and there is will, but there is no will power!)))

              Honestly, this is really my weakness)))
              I love women and how you can not love them !!!!! ???
              You look in her eyes Seryozha !!))))))))
              Well, how can you not fulfill her request !!))
              Carlson is right is beyond my powers)))
              1. Cavas
                Cavas 5 December 2012 17: 30
                +2
                Quote: Karlsonn
                I can not, it is stronger than me

                Quote: Yarbay
                Well, how can you not fulfill her request !!))
                Carlson is right is beyond my powers)))

                As steelmakers say- "Our strength in swimming trunks!" wassat

      2. donchepano
        donchepano 5 December 2012 22: 05
        +1
        Quote: Yarbay

        and who is this girl on your avatar?))) It’s going well, that is, walking)))


        does not go but "writes", no does not write but "draws
        draws like a misha .. and misha like a grisha ... and grisha like a left
        Well, the left - .......)))

        sorry youth remembered ... :))
  6. virm
    virm 5 December 2012 10: 34
    +11
    "He who has lost his head does not cry through his hair."
    We lost Sevastopol, Odessa, Donbass. Yes, all of Ukraine. Like Belarus. And our brothers Slavs live there. With whom we shared all the troubles and joys for hundreds of years. And in the Caucasus there live people who hate us with fierce hatred. What they have repeatedly proved and continue to prove to this day. What to do with this territory is not clear.
    Separate cannot be left. Where to put a comma? Maybe they need some kind of native status. Providing administrative barriers to the movement of individuals.
    Be aware that what closer Russia will be to the Caucasus and Central Asia, in every sense, the farther from it will be Ukraine and Belarus. Will a resident of Kiev, Minsk or Donetsk want his city to turn into such a village, as it happened with Moscow, St. Petersburg, etc. The question is rhetorical.
    1. General_Nogay
      General_Nogay 5 December 2012 10: 45
      -9
      Che you got to us the status is not status, indigenous, yet hell knows what!
      Separate and do not combine brains neither to yourself nor to people! The Caucasus will certainly live without you, as it has lived for centuries! But no, the native occupiers came and captured rich and beautiful places and still want to dictate their conditions and obey them implicitly !!! Look, Azerbaijan has become independent and is it really bad? Of course not! Georgia? No identity too! Armenia? No too! And where did you get the idea that Dagestan or Ingushetia would not survive without you? !!! I, too, are supermen!
    2. Yeraz
      Yeraz 5 December 2012 10: 51
      -3
      ****** This is the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh, with the involvement of Turkey. *****

      Well, this expression just killed)) Turkey is involved, but there are Russian bases in Armenia, it’s Russia’s settlement mediator, Russia is actively arming Armenia at discounted prices, but Turkey is involved)))

      **** At the same time, we see that after Russia left the South Caucasus, new hotbeds of war were born. ****

      It’s interesting with what other departure ?? Military bases were withdrawn from Georgia, if I’m not mistaken in 2006, or to the extremes with the arrival of Saakashvili, they didn’t leave Armenia at all, just like a considerable contingent is deployed in Azerbaijan in Gabala.

      **** With the departure of Russia from Transcaucasia, the world in this region is over. Azerbaijan, Georgia and Armenia are arming heavily, ****

      Armenia at preferential prices is equipped with Russia and Azerbaijan too (but not as totally as Armenia) but at world prices.
      1. Wanderer1980
        Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 11: 20
        +2
        Well, this expression just killed)) Turkey is involved, but there are Russian bases in Armenia, it’s Russia’s settlement mediator, Russia is actively arming Armenia at discounted prices, but Turkey is involved)))

        Russian bases in Armenia since Soviet times. They were in Azerbaijan until you started aggression against the NKR (under the sensitive Turkish leadership wink)
        1. kNow
          kNow 5 December 2012 16: 46
          0
          Quote: Wanderer1980
          Russian bases in Armenia

          Guarded by the brave Armenian asses. And they are kept at the Armenian expense. From courage. And the Russians guard the borders ... And yet they scream about independence ...
    3. Yarbay
      Yarbay 5 December 2012 12: 06
      +3
      Quote: virm
      And in the Caucasus there live people who hate us with fierce hatred.

      I do not agree!
    4. Karish
      Karish 5 December 2012 13: 24
      +1
      Quote: virm
      And in the Caucasus there live people who hate us with fierce hatred. What they have repeatedly proved and continue to prove to this day. What to do with this territory is not clear

      to say that the Caucasus hated Russians is simply a lie. To come to Georgia was just not a passing holiday with their hospitality and hospitality. The Russians have always (the bulk) treated remarkably. Local disputes between the Caucasian peoples have always been, but so far Russia has remained neutral - everyone respected the Russians. When Russia, U type, to defend justice (and in fact, to promote the interests of various groups) began to openly take sides. She has lost her status as a neutral, respected regulator.
      The consequences were not long in coming. Russia helped the Abkhazians and Ossetians, Georgia - Chechens .etc.
      GEORGIANS TURNED INTO ENEMIES - SHAME, NO MORE TO SAY Nothing. Fought TOGETHER, THE COUNTRY BUILT TOGETHER - NOW THE ENEMIES THAT THROAT IS READY TO OVERLOAD.
      Quote: virm
      We must be aware that the closer Russia is to the Caucasus and Central Asia, in every sense, the farther away Ukraine and Belarus will be from it. Will a resident of Kiev, Minsk or Donetsk want his city to turn into such a village, as it happened with Moscow, St. Petersburg, etc. The question is rhetorical.

      The Caucasus is certainly a different mentality in many ways, and there is much to learn from them. But to say that the Caucasus is a village / village !? With this approach, the relationship problem can never be solved.
      In general, does it seem that a village in the Russian countryside is favorably different from an aul or a village? Maybe only because the name is different, but they drink more
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 5 December 2012 15: 10
        +12
        Georgians turned into enemies? .. An amusing statement however. And aren’t the Georgians themselves, or rather, their leadership, starting with the ever-memorable Zviad Gamsakhurdia, ruled Georgia into an enemy of Russia? ..

        Yes, and in principle, dear colleagues on the site, and take a closer look at the story and you will understand one simple thing - the Caucasus, he always wanted to be free, but always fell under the influence of more powerful neighbors. Moreover, over time, the Caucasians themselves completely got used to this and even began to derive considerable benefits from this ...

        But tapericha is a little tsifiri however - after the end of the Caucasian war, the government allocated 44.560.000 for the needs of localforty four million five hundred sixty thousand) rubles, having received from him 15.400.000 (fifteen million four hundred thousand) rubles.
        As they say - feel the difference however. The very difference that makes the region subsidized ...
        So what conclusion can be drawn from this very tsifiri, dear colleagues on the site? .. Correctly - the Caucasus, by its nature, has always been a cutter and concubine. Everything else is just idle talk ...
      2. arduan
        arduan 5 December 2012 19: 18
        +3
        Quote: Karish
        is a village in the rrssian outback favorably different from an aul or a village? Maybe only because the name is different, but they drink more

        Yes, it’s different, I didn’t hear that Caucasians cut their throats and organized pogroms like Jewish ones in Russian villages and villages. And so it’s not far from the pogroms.
  7. mar.tira
    mar.tira 5 December 2012 10: 47
    +9
    What is it you all got caught up against this article Caucasians? What do not like such thoughts of the author? And here I like for example! Because all your affairs and thoughts, and now lead to the future big war in the Caucasus. After all, you need everything, and now, and the lessons of history do not teach! You will have a big war, will be! Trouble will come to every home. And Russia, unfortunately, will not be able to help anyone. It has weakened, and interests have diverged too far. We have already become foreigners!
    1. General_Nogay
      General_Nogay 5 December 2012 10: 54
      -6
      You became strangers because you sponsor skinheads and Zhirik supports them! Do not want to end with a bandit underground in the Caucasus, money is more important. In Center.Russia you do not take a good job. There is no vowel law; do not take black-asses to work! And from us you want us to crawl on your knees in front of you; WE ARE NOT SLAVES, SLAVES ARE NOT WE!
      1. vyatom
        vyatom 5 December 2012 11: 55
        +17
        You're wrong. Normal attitude towards you. And the negative often causes the behavior of groups of young people who behave rudely and do not respect the laws and traditions of the places where they came.
        1. General_Nogay
          General_Nogay 5 December 2012 11: 58
          +1
          You are wrong! Where is the normal attitude? Until now, I’m wandering about the draft board and I can’t get a crust of UBD. Who doesn’t get into the office slanting eyes and an endless promise to do something! While there will be such an attitude towards us, do not expect good either! Why did I suddenly become a warrior for Russia and its interests in the Caucasus?
          1. vyatom
            vyatom 5 December 2012 12: 55
            +5
            And you think a different attitude towards us. Everything is exactly the same.
          2. webdog
            webdog 5 December 2012 14: 34
            +2
            General_Nogay, where did you "fight" there ??)))
            counter strike, or what?
            yes, I agree, you mastered this toy by 5 points, here’s just one cant - there are more than one life in it))
            and you should get used to the opposite.
            I'm not a nationalist, but I personally dislike you)))
            you climbed into this forum to heat the situation? what a warrior you are. any person who has a little bit of combat experience tries to be calm and to refrain from sharp attacks, the nervous ones do not live long in battle. nerves do not allow.
            therefore, I conclude that you do not have the right to point out here to those who know what a real battle is.
            and you still have parents next to jump)))
            everything is clear for you explained?
            I think so...
            1. General_Nogay
              General_Nogay 5 December 2012 15: 44
              -4
              The clarifier you did not grow to explain something to me!
              And as for sharp attacks in artillery, the main thing is to charge faster and more accurately to direct! There is no time for calm, there is faster and faster. And the situation is heating up people publishing well, a lot of unpleasant articles about the Caucasus recently. But do you even have an idea about the war? Did you smell the stink of smell? And in Tskhinvali there was such a smell for a long time! So don’t bark, know nothing about the person!
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 5 December 2012 16: 08
                +5
                Quote: General_Nogay
                But do you even have an idea about the war?

                Quote: webdog
                where did you "fight" there ??)))

                Gentlemen, comrades, in our time you won’t surprise anyone with the fact that someone fought somewhere, so you don’t have to make such a big question out of this and splurge on each other!
                1. General_Nogay
                  General_Nogay 5 December 2012 16: 16
                  -3
                  I didn’t want to insult anyone and splurge on each other, but I definitely will not say anything about insulting me! Let your market filter! And since I’ve always wet it once in CS, it’s his problems, since my hands are growing from the wrong place!
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 5 December 2012 16: 47
                    +2
                    Quote: General_Nogay

                    I didn’t want to insult anyone and splurge on each other, but I definitely will not say anything about insulting me!

                    Just ignore it is easier !!
                    Nerves and health are more expensive!
        2. Yeraz
          Yeraz 5 December 2012 20: 38
          +4
          Quote: vyatom
          You're wrong. Normal attitude towards you.

          Sorry of course, but when I started looking for work, and I am a citizen of Azerbaijan. All the documents are normal. I looked for work where non-citizens are accepted too. And when the requirements say that they are citizens of the CIS, but when I called and said like that, they ask and the citizen of which CIS country didn’t recognize Azerbaijan right away. At first I didn’t understand why? For the sake of the experiment, friends called from other numbers saying that the citizens of Uzbekistan of Tajikistan immediately gave the go-ahead. I was again at a loss. And then I came across an advertisement and it was written in huge print DAGESTAN did not call. The whole thing was that I am a representative of the Caucasus, i.e., Uzbek and Tajik will do everything that they will be entrusted to and will not arise. And the Caucasian, exactly what is written under the agreement, will not tolerate the arrogant appeal of the administrator, etc. d.
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 5 December 2012 12: 07
        +4
        Quote: General_Nogay
        You became strangers because you sponsor skinheads and Zhirik supports them

        not without common sense, but they are sponsored by the authorities, not ordinary people!
        1. donchepano
          donchepano 5 December 2012 12: 54
          0
          Quote: Yarbay

          not without common sense, but they are sponsored by the authorities, not ordinary people!


          + 1000 yarby. It is for the authorities that the peoples below were biting as long as they were engaged in their rat affairs
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 5 December 2012 12: 57
            0
            Quote: donchepano
            It is for the authorities that the peoples below were biting as long as they were engaged in their rat affairs

            Unfortunately, few understand this, judging by what I read in the media and on the forum!
      3. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 5 December 2012 12: 12
        +10
        Quote: General_Nogay
        There is no vowel law, do not take black asses to work

        Something I frankly did not see the poor Caucasians in the Far East. Put everything in one comb, such an impression. That you do not want to hear and see.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 5 December 2012 12: 15
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Something I frankly did not see the poor Caucasians in the Far East. Put everything in one comb, such an impression. That you do not want to hear and see.

          It seems to me that Sanya seems to be in Siberia and the Far East a normal relationship between peoples !! Workers from the time of the USSR have basically gathered there! Or am I mistaken?
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 5 December 2012 12: 19
            +3
            Quote: Yarbay
            It seems to me in Siberia and in the Far East that the normal relationship between peoples !! Mostly hard workers from the time of the USSR gathered there!

            Why is Alibek, we also have problems and bribes are taken and stolen, but we have to put an edge. I have a neighbor Azerbaidjan, but he doesn’t keep the budget. The man is throwing everything in a bunch, there are most of the thieves of his fellow countrymen, which concerns the underground underground, then again how many Russian soldiers and officers died in the fight against them. You need to look good, but I don’t really understand who sponsors skinheads, there are enough scumbags everywhere.
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 5 December 2012 12: 33
              +6
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              A man brings down a bunch, there is a large part of the thieves of his fellow countrymen, with regards to the bandit underground, then again, how many Russian soldiers and officers died in the fight against them. I need to watch it well, but I didn’t understand skinheads who sponsors;

              I will try to explain my vision with simple examples !!
              Let’s recall Mirzoyev, having intervened for the girl hit Agafonov, he fell, died as a result of the assistance not provided thereafter, but everyone still talks about it calling Mirzaev a beast, forgetting that Agafonov himself was under investigation for robbery, what's the difference here same Russian !!
              But in Saratov, kickboxer Khromov just killed a Russian passerby just for fun and killed him, he was conditionally convicted and that’s normal, no one even wants to know about that !! And another sambo fighter didn’t want to pay for a bottle that made a remark he beat another buyer to death and is also of little interest to anyone, he is not from the Caucasus !! There was still a boxer Budykin who killed a man, but it’s also normal, he’s Russian !!
              In Ryazan, teenagers simply because they didn’t like the clothes killed a cadet in front of passers-by with his knives and almost all were subsequently released, but no one talks about it, because Russians!
              But if Caucasians did it, then it would go and go, animals, they can only with knives, only five for one !! And this is all done by the media, and the media is controlled by the authorities !!
              Without the support of the authorities, more than one skinhead movement would never have been able to utter a peep in Russia !!
              Just if there are Caucasians criminals, why aren't they being planted ???
              You choose deputies, you appoint Russian officials !!
              It's just beneficial for the authorities, to always have scapegoats on hand and get bribes !!
              1. General_Nogay
                General_Nogay 5 December 2012 12: 38
                -7
                In the top ten! Poor fellow Merzaev lost almost 1,5 years of his life! And how much could fight during this time speaking for Russia! I feel sorry for him, I could have lost speed during this time! Although I believe that he will recover and return to pound opponents in the ring!
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 5 December 2012 12: 43
                  +1
                  Quote: General_Nogay
                  Poor fellow Merzaev lost almost 1,5 years of his life!

                  I do not condone him, but it seems to me that he sincerely repented, but no one even wanted to talk to him !!
                  And it’s a bigger life, and it can happen to anyone, just one slap in the face took one and a half years of life, and the other’s life !!
                  1. General_Nogay
                    General_Nogay 5 December 2012 12: 49
                    -3
                    I’m not justifying him, either, but it’s stupid to scatter world champions! I understand if he would have come there specially and would have hollowed it until he smashed his face to the brains. Then please, at least for life! But for a slap of 1,5 years, too much, especially since Agofonov himself was looking for adventure for a long time!
                    1. survivor
                      survivor 5 December 2012 13: 05
                      +3
                      before he is 6 champion, he is black-assed. therefore, this story was given such a powerful resonance !!!
                  2. Karish
                    Karish 5 December 2012 13: 28
                    +1
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    I do not condone him, but it seems to me that he sincerely repented, but no one even wanted to talk to him !!

                    In general, of course, it doesn't smell like murder, it's just an accident (which Merzoeva does not justify in any case)
                    But his request was simple, judge me as a Russian. Believe me, he knew what he was talking about. If you are guilty, go to jail, but like everyone else, without distinction of nationality. And then the court - to the need of the crowd - this is not a court.
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 5 December 2012 13: 45
                      -2
                      Quote: Karish
                      If guilty, go to jail

                      So he Sanya one and a half years and so served !!
                      Because of the public resonance, they refused to let him go on bail and on bail!
                      Whereas others who committed an analogous crime were released !!!
                  3. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 6 December 2012 05: 37
                    +2
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    more is life

                    It’s just that the authorities and the media themselves are driving people into such a framework. Merzaev won, according to news reports, the Russian representative won, and now the representative of the Caucasian diaspora is talking about him. request
              2. donchepano
                donchepano 5 December 2012 12: 59
                +3
                Quote: Yarbay
                You choose deputies, you appoint Russian officials !! It’s just for the authorities that it’s profitable to always have scapegoats on hand and get bribes !!


                Yarbai with respect to you, but real Russians are not nationalists and in addition do not appoint officials.
                you know it yourself ...
                who runs Russia?
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 5 December 2012 13: 06
                  +2
                  Quote: donchepano
                  Yarbai with respect to you, but real Russians are not nationalists and in addition do not appoint officials.
                  you know it yourself ...
                  who runs Russia?

                  Dear you did not understand my thought !!
                  I meant that now, in principle, there is a massive hostility among Russians in relation to Caucasians!
                  And the main reason is that the authorities are not fulfilling their duties entering into a criminal conspiracy with the bandits !! For a simple layman of the Russian, it looks like the Caucasians are doing what they want, let's unite and spread them all out!
                  And if the officials and the authorities simply performed their functions and duties, then everything would be different! The bandit would be in prison, the bribe taker would be without bribes!
                  I meant that the authorities and officials, the police in Russia, are mainly Russian after all !!
                  Why should people be outraged by the shooting in the city in order to detain the shooter ??
                  Why violating public order and dancing on the street or being rude to people should be held accountable only after the public boils ???
                  So who is to blame ????
                  1. donchepano
                    donchepano 5 December 2012 13: 37
                    +1
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    I meant that the authorities and officials, the police in Russia, are mainly Russian after all !!


                    Yes, no Russian is at the helm of power.
                    There are gentlemen with Russian Ukrainian Belarusian and German surnames.
                    And if they say that they are purely ...... (listed) then this is not a fact. As they say (forgive me for comparing) on ​​the wall of the barn a word of 3 letters, but in reality it’s just firewood.
                    And so I agree with you
                  2. klimpopov
                    klimpopov 5 December 2012 15: 03
                    +6
                    I meant that the authorities and officials, the police in Russia, are mainly Russian after all !!

                    You are wrong to put it mildly ... Diasporas, especially the traffic police, mean a lot - I just know ...
                    I meant that now, in principle, there is a massive hostility among Russians in relation to Caucasians!

                    And why did it arise? Is it from the behavior of worthy children of the mountains? I can bring a lot of what I saw on the streets, and how these young people call Russians and so on, but I won’t because it’s pointless, everything is clear. It is necessary to observe the culture, first of all, not to yell in the streets, especially to the girls and so on. Many times I observed the opposite picture when, after a showdown, the valiant policemen knit Russians, although there were fewer of them.
                    Why violating public order and dancing on the street or being rude to people should be held accountable only after the public boils ???

                    A mess of impunity, all will be equal to the law, there will be order, as well as air shocks.
                    And yet, this is not Alibek for you. First, the Russians will be cut out first, then each other and then the Turks will populate with the submission of the states, here is the picture after the separation of the North Caucasus ...
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 5 December 2012 16: 15
                      +1
                      Quote: klimpopov
                      You are wrong to say the least ... Diasporas, especially the traffic police, mean a lot - I just know.

                      I may not be aware, but still the state is obliged to force both the official and the citizen to obey the law and I do not understand when they say that it is difficult or impossible
                      Quote: klimpopov
                      I can bring a lot of what I saw on the streets, and how these young people call Russians and so on, but I won’t because it’s pointless, everything is clear.
                      Klim this we already have a consequence from impunity and I believe that the root cause was long ago and organized
                      ! Do you remember the USSR !! How laws worked then, especially in matters of interethnic relations !! In the mid-90s I saw the same thing in England one to one !! Do not let the Bogts, that someone offended someone on national soil was immediately stopped by huge fines and the law in general !!
                      Quote: klimpopov
                      A mess of impunity, all will be equal to the law, there will be order, as well as air shocks.
                      I completely agree with this and cannot even be discussed!
                      Quote: klimpopov
                      And yet, this is not Alibek for you. First, the Russians will be cut out first, then each other and then the Turks will populate with the submission of the states, here is the picture after the separation of the North Caucasus

                      I hope this is not so!
                      1. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 5 December 2012 17: 42
                        +2
                        I hope this is not so!

                        I'm talking about the North Caucasus and the great Circassia. And there is no one that unites in the Caucasus, which should exist with a natural separation from the Empire. Some in Soyue have already shouted "if we secede, we will stop feeding Moscow" - where are they now? Correctly, with a hole in their backs, they walk around Europe, begging, and catching and eating kilko in fuel oil, because there is nothing more, for that cultural European steel, now they even have permission from the owners to bark at Russia, and this is oh, how ego pleases. And who shouted most of all at that backside and with holes, now the truth is they have a new "attack", it turns out that not only Moscow was to blame, but also the Russians who settled there, now they are actively evicting Russians, it's funny to imagine what kind of territories it will be in 10 years, for states their language refuses to call. I hope you understand what states we are talking about. Now look at the middle class and ask the question, are there any objective reasons for separation from Russia, rightly not, everything is artificially fed from outside on the basis of interethnic strife, as long as there are Russians it is possible to unite against them, the Russians will not start with each other.
                        And since there are no economically sound, politically justified reasons for secession, it is absurd to secede when there is no abundance, or money just appears, and these states themselves will not create an effective economy, Dombay can’t put it in order by itself, they roll a barrel on visitors, at the expense of who is being fed, is it funny? And Dombay is a tiny example ...
                        Well, who will start throwing sleepers?
                      2. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 32
                        0
                        Quote: klimpopov
                        I'm talking about the North Caucasus and great Circassia

                        Klim words and wishes of a handful of bandits and people with a boiled head, can be attributed to the aspirations of the people ??
                        Why, if it concerns Russians, then we say that these are bandits and villains and are not related to the people, and if Caucasian bandits say and do bad things, is this desire and face of such a people ??
                        This is not just Klim’s question for you, but everyone!
                      3. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 5 December 2012 19: 29
                        +2
                        And I skillfully manipulate the opinion of the people. It's just that here, as always, we don't keep what we have, I’m about what, they will separate, after a while, but a holy place is never empty, I agree with this in the article, what kind of real independence can we talk about? ... And the people's aspirations are quite definite, it remains to wait until the old people who fought for the USSR die and that's it ... only this now somehow holds, although in Chechnya even this did not hold. One thing is insulting to me as a Russian, everyone lived in the union and for some reason only Russians are to blame, and we have to sprinkle our heads and prove that "we didn't want to." How is that? This is a question not only for you Alibek ...
                      4. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 6 December 2012 16: 19
                        +1
                        Quote: klimpopov
                        ... And the aspirations of the people are quite definite, it remains to wait until the old people who fought for the USSR die and that's all ... only this now somehow holds, although even this did not hold up in Chechnya. One thing is insulting to me as a Russian, everyone lived in the union and for some reason only Russians are to blame, and we have to sprinkle our heads and prove that "we didn't want to." How is that? This is a question not only for you Alibek ...

                        I wouldn’t be like that!
                        I do not think that only the Russians are to blame!
                        We are all to blame, but I believe that the Russians had more opportunities and levers to prevent what we now have !!
                        The Russians also had more responsibility!
                      5. dmb
                        dmb 5 December 2012 19: 58
                        +2
                        Greetings to Alibek. Have you heard this from me, and many others on the site? I can tell you right away that Kadyrov and Udugov, Dudayev and Basayev have nothing to do with the people. Haste in assessments has never been a good advisor. Do not be offended, but your assessment of Baghramyan is personally unacceptable to me, because it puts you on a par with those who do not see the people behind the bandits. And I, remembering your previous posts, do not believe in this. The topic in the article is very relevant, but it seems to me that Samsonov presented it in a straightforward manner. Most of those present on the site have experience of personal interethnic friendship, and if we forget about it because of a few unsuccessfully said phrases or shouts of individual idiots, then we are worthless. In the overwhelming majority, we wore or are wearing shoulder straps, and therefore, well, we do not belong to the "creative" class. Now explain to me, than Russian thieves of any nationality, better or worse than Azerbaijani, Armenian or Ukrainian. After all, apart from them, no one in the division of our common home has found happiness by and large. Let's face each other honestly. Why, if Azerbaijan is prosperous, a huge number of its citizens live in Russia? The same can be said about other states. I'm not talking about "big brother" at all and not supporting idiotic appeals like: "Go home", but friendship should be mutual. And here it is more like bargaining. And again, bargaining is not so much in the interests of the peoples as in the interests of individual financial and industrial groups. Let's leave the past centuries alone for a while. There really, each of us will have a claim. That's just not necessary to blame all the bumps on Russia and the Russians. Otherwise, they will immediately remember the Tatar-Mongol yoke, and the fact that Maria Temryukovna (and her brothers, too) were playing pranks on the boyars with Ivan Vasilyevich together. In 93 I happened to be present at one forum "For Peace and Friendship", where the Nogai brothers recalled the massacre that happened in the 16th century to the Kalmyk brothers. Well, what does Russia have to do with it?
                      6. Yeraz
                        Yeraz 5 December 2012 20: 52
                        +7
                        Quote: dmb
                        Why, if Azerbaijan flourishes, a huge number of its citizens live in Russia.

                        The ruling elite is flourishing. But there is every opportunity for the people, but the authorities are so corrupt that they prefer to live in Russia. Personally, I’m an example of this, my family including a family has long been in the Russian Federation since the Soviet Union. I decided to live in Azerbaijan and after working there for about a year I went nuts to put it mildly, what’s going on there. And having thrown everything to hell, he returned to his family in St. Petersburg. And he forbade his parents and brother even to think about returning there while such a system was there.
                        everything is known by comparison and believe the dissatisfaction of the Russians with the authorities, I understand, but the Russians would certainly be awesome if they saw what they were doing in Azerbaijan. There is no freedom of speech. At our university in St. Petersburg, 7 out of 10 colonels calmly criticized Putin and the authorities .Try the colonel of the Ministry of Internal Affairs at the Academy of the Ministry of Internal Affairs to criticize the authorities or God forbid Aliyev. The softest punishment will be his dismissal from the organs.

                        Russia will slowly but slowly become a state with a more open system, where the words and control of society will constantly increase slowly, but there will be progress.

                        As it was rightly said here, if there is an opportunity to reconcile the parties, but if not, then do not interfere with local disassemblies, and even more so to take sides. This will influence and respect, which is already at zero, will develop into concrete hatred.
                      7. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 6 December 2012 16: 38
                        0
                        Quote: dmb
                        Greetings Alibek. And from me, and many others on the site, have you heard this? I can tell you right away that Kadyrov and Udugov, Dudaev and Basaev have nothing to do with the people. Haste in evaluations has never been a good adviser. Do not be offended, but your assessment of Baghramyan is personally unacceptable to me, because it puts you on a par with those who do not see the people behind bandits. And I, remembering your previous posts in this I do not believe.

                        Hello Dmitry!
                        Thank you very much for your attitude to me, I will try to explain my position! The issue is not that Baghramyan was an Armenian !!
                        It was during the discussion with the David Troll here that I began to look for data about him !! After reading a lot of documents, I was convinced that this person was only once a commander in 23 and even did not command a year !!
                        Let's drop that he was Armenian !!
                        As a man who did not command any unit and did not participate in any battle in the Second World War, he became a marshal ??! Was exclusively in staff posts !! I know how he became what he became!
                        Quote: dmb
                        Most of those present on the site have experience of personal interethnic friendship, and if we forget about it because of several unsuccessfully said phrases or cries of individual idiots, then the price is worthless to us.
                        I agree with you!
                        Quote: dmb
                        Now explain to me what Russian thieves of any nationality are better or worse than Azerbaijani, Armenian or Ukrainian. After all, besides them, no one in the division of our common house of happiness has by and large found.
                        You have touched on a very important topic!
                        The day before on NTV showed about the life path of a thief in law North!
                        I was shocked, they interviewed him for almost 40 minutes, told how brave and courageous he was and how honest they were, in general, about his wife as the wife of a Decembrist who had experienced a lot! About the children who are already sitting too !! that who such a thief in law is to promote his lifestyle !!
                        Quote: dmb
                        Let's face each other honestly. Why, if Azerbaijan flourishes, a huge number of its citizens live in Russia. The same can be said of other states.

                        You know the state of things in Azerbaijan!
                        I’ll say what I think, many people go for the fact that there are more commercial opportunities in Russia !! Since 2007, much has changed here, but much more needs to change, but the fact that the republic has taken a huge step forward is in my opinion and it makes me happy, but I repeat I agree that there are many problems too!
                        Quote: dmb
                        Indeed, each of us will have complaints there. Just do not blame all the bumps on Russia and Russian.

                        I wrote my opinion on Klim on this issue!
                    2. Region-25.rus
                      Region-25.rus 6 December 2012 11: 17
                      +1
                      Quote: klimpopov
                      First, the Russians will be cut out first, then each other and then the Turks will populate with the submission of the states, here is the picture after the separation of the North Caucasus ...


                      Exactly! Only many of them still do not get it! They believe that Turkey, Oia and "enlightened" Europe are choking in tears of love for them! Hitler pursued the same policy! And even though the guys from the Caucasus fought and died - their Eternal Memory and Bow to the ground, but many rejoiced at our failures! Considering that Adik Schicklgruber after the victory in the gums will labzat them! Protso play in the dark and bred as usual .... well, those that start with the letter "l"
              3. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 5 December 2012 15: 55
                0
                Yarbay
                Quote: Yarbay
                remember Mirzoev

                how a Soviet athlete is simply furious with this story and exaggerating it in the information field am . The words are not mine, but it is said perfectly:
                ... 1. You need to be cool not in words but in deeds. If you allow yourself offensive remarks about women, be prepared to get in the face. Sooner or later there will be someone stronger than you and will shut your mouth. Perhaps forever.
                2. No need to wave your fists. And if you can’t help but wave, be prepared to pay for it with at least a couple of years of restriction of freedom. It's not that expensive to maintain self-respect ...
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 5 December 2012 16: 21
                  +3
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  No need to wave your fists. And if you can’t help but wave, be prepared to pay for it with at least a couple of years of restriction of freedom.
                  This is generally a terrible thing !! I fought a lot in my youth and was constantly ready for this, without thinking about the consequences !!
                  I remember one drunken comrade jumped from a flyover and crashed !!
                  He was in a coma for almost a month, even though I pulled him out of the water and rendered first aid, but all the same, all his relatives and the police accused me of fighting and dumping !! There weren’t any witnesses! If he hadn’t remembered, he even after waking up for 3 days, I just couldn’t remember what happened to him! I still remember it with horror!
                  1. Karlsonn
                    Karlsonn 5 December 2012 16: 44
                    +1
                    Yarbay
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    Although I pulled him out of the water and provided first aid

                    well done good though a good deed doesn’t always mean good consequences, I stood up for a couple who were beaten by drunken youngsters as a result of four hours of a monkey, but this is normal and I don’t get used to it, but the fact that I had to shrug off my criminal institution and tighten and strain my friends this likewise evokes not the best memories (((the uncle was planted back in the USSR for exceeding self-defense measures, fought off seven people, unintentionally killed one, and the fact that he was an MC in freestyle wrestling went as aggravating circumstances . TVO Personally, when they signed the document repeatedly about responsibility, said - that this frank insanity, and even with our legislation and judicial proceedings in relation to self-defense to me is a very painful issue.

                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 5 December 2012 17: 01
                      0
                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      True, a good deed does not always mean good consequences,

                      That's for sure))))))))))))))))))
          2. Region-25.rus
            Region-25.rus 6 December 2012 11: 11
            +1
            Quote: Yarbay
            Workers from the time of the USSR have basically gathered there! Or am I mistaken?


            You are a little wrong! For in the "funny" 90s we had good "fun" going on here! Of course, there were enough of their brothers, but what did the people from the Caucasus do ... rape (they grabbed the girls right on the street and took them away, and then they were found in such a form that Hitchcock nervously smokes on the sidelines), they drove tons of drugs, massacre, such chaos that the local lads were just shocked! The war was! The most natural! (I did not find something because of military service 91-93) but they wrote to me! Until the local gangsters (about Vaps are still legendary) began to use the same methods! that's when they quieted down a bit! Most likely, they realized that it is better to live normally and do business, even if it is not entirely honest sometimes! And with all the steepness they always attacked one in a flock! He himself worked for 2 years in the same shipping shop, carried passengers to Japan for a car! So, it was much easier to negotiate with our bandyukas! At least they understood that they could piss and shit on the deck and arrange dances in the middle of the night, distract the crew from their duties under the pretext - "Listen! I'm a passenger, yes! You drop everything and delai why I'm tabe gavaru! I'm in charge here" - it's just not rational for myself can be more expensive and even somehow indecent! I can give dozens more examples, but .... there will be "too many beeches)
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 6 December 2012 16: 42
              0
              Quote: Region-25.rus
              I can give dozens more examples, but .... there will be "too many beeches)
              Thanks for the information!
        2. General_Nogay
          General_Nogay 5 December 2012 12: 24
          +5
          There may be no beggars in the Far East, but there are more than enough in the Center. Russia! Only not a single Caucasian recognizes himself as a beggar and you will not see! And not satisfied, offended, and infringed upon thousands!
      4. arduan
        arduan 5 December 2012 19: 25
        +2
        Quote: General_Nogay
        In Center.Russia you do not take a good job.

        A little off topic, but it became very interesting, and what work do you consider good? In the center of Russia.
        1. General_Nogay
          General_Nogay 5 December 2012 19: 31
          -2
          The one at which you can live normally and put off a bit, and not exist until the next salary !!!
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 6 December 2012 05: 40
            0
            Quote: General_Nogay
            The one at which you can live normally and put off a little

            Come to the Far East, on a shift you can earn from 50-80 thousand, if you are satisfied, welcome.
  8. Igarr
    Igarr 5 December 2012 10: 55
    +6
    I do not agree with this - "..However, it is obvious that from the point of view of global politics, in strategic terms, the Russian state led an absolutely correct and fair policy. .. "
    To me, by and large - to the bulldozer, she was right or wrong, fair or unfair .. this policy.
    The main thing is that she WAS.
    ..
    Now - a clear policy - no.
    Some attempts.
    And the result is a push .. - Wahhabism in Russia.
    To fool.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 5 December 2012 12: 12
      +6
      Quote: Igarr
      To me, by and large - to the bulldozer, she was right or wrong, fair or unfair .. this policy.

      Especially since there was justice ???
      The same system as the Anglo Brit, divide and conquer!
      In the territories where Muslims lived, Christians were settled in the person of Armenians (read Griboedov, Dubrovin, Velichko!) And then they helped some to fight with others, often inciting !!
      Quote: Igarr
      Now - a clear policy - no.

      That's right!
      Quote: Igarr
      And the result is a push .. - Wahhabism in Russia.
      To fool.

      This Wahhabism is spreading thanks to this policy, and in my opinion it is also being done for a specific purpose, by people close to power!
      1. donchepano
        donchepano 5 December 2012 13: 01
        +4
        Quote: Yarbay
        This Wahhabism is spread by the blog thanks to this policy and in my opinion it is also done for a specific purpose, by people close to power



        AGAIN PLUS PLUS
  9. Novel
    Novel 5 December 2012 10: 57
    +9
    Unfortunately, in the 1920s, militant "internationalists" decided to nullify Russian history by starting to build a new state from scratch. Arranged the pogrom of “damned tsarism”.
    For 70 years, militant internationalists have brought peace and quiet to the entire vast territory of the USSR.
    Moreover, the issue was resolved beautifully and quickly in the 20s. But stretching the war for 50 years is just inherent in “damned tsarism.” And thousands of Russian soldiers died, because it was profitable for someone to drag out this war. and became another black mark for tsarism. Another example is the war with Japan in 1905, when officials robbed their own, in fact, a warring army. The stupid involvement in World War I and the loss of 3 million Russian soldiers. Well, they did not remember the general in Soviet times. Ermolova. But this is logic. But you could take a backpack with a tent and go to the Caucasus for a week, wander in the mountains. Nobody belittles the feats of people who died in internal wars. But this is a delicate matter, whatever one may say.
    In general, to write that a Russian soldier was forgotten in Soviet times is vile, especially now, when whores and thieves are promoted on every corner, when monuments to Yeltsin are erected. The names of the famous Russian soldiers - Nevsky, Suvorov, Kutuzov, Ushakov, Nakhimov
    and so on, streets and avenues were called, excellent feature films were shot. From a young age they were put in school as an example. They were not effective managers. From the first Russian princes to the heroes of the last wars.
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 5 December 2012 13: 00
      +2
      Quote: Roman
      For 70 years, militant internationalists have brought peace and quiet to the entire vast territory of the USSR.
      What does the issue have been resolved beautifully and quickly in the 20s

      The novel you are right. People of different nationalities were united by ideology and belief in a better future. Now they are deprived of this. They dispersed among different nations, different religions and are looking for their "bright future", but they cannot and will not find. I agree with the author that it will be there is blood and carnage, if ............ The helmsman or helmsmen do not need peace.
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 5 December 2012 17: 32
      +1
      Novel
      let me subscribe!
      author’s passages:
      Quote: Roman
      in the 1920 years the militant "internationalists" decided to nullify Russian history

      just discouraged. As you correctly noticed
      Quote: Roman
      Militant internationalists bring peace for 70 years

      to the blazing Caucasus after the collapse of tsarism and to the gentlemen of the liberal democrats, before blathering from under the benches or from high tribunes, it is worth at least achieving at least comparable results! The Bolsheviks stopped the war, turned the region into a prosperous land, and when difficulties arose (Chechnya) they resolved quickly and coordinatedly, which cannot be said about their detractors.
      About the zeroing of history, this is only in the author’s head, personally to me - the Soviet schoolchild, there was nothing stopping me from reading about history, in particular the military, visiting the school library in the Caucasus. Authors in a democratic frenzy:
      ... Most of the Russian heroes of the Caucasian wars were redundant in Soviet Russia ... just skidded! If he is so sure that Ermolov turned out to be superfluous in Soviet Russia, let him open the third volume of the Soviet military encyclopedia, released in 1978!
      Obviously, as a child, he did not read books and was not interested in the history of his native Fatherland, otherwise he would have known that in the early 60s one of the Moscow streets was given the honorary name - "General Ermolov Street".
  10. General_Nogay
    General_Nogay 5 December 2012 10: 59
    0
    Give me squishy minuses and more! Since the truth is pricking your eyes! And we have not believed your fairy tales for a long time, since the 92nd year !!! We always hear that next year we’ll definitely build, then after 2 years, then no one remembers! or wahami bandits when it was promised to end?
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 5 December 2012 11: 05
      +5
      Quote: General_Nogay
      Since the truth is pricking your eyes! And we have not believed your fairy tales for a long time, since the 92nd year !!! We always hear that we’ll definitely build next year, then after 2 years,

      So is it the Russians who are stealing your budget there, or are your countrymen still?
      1. General_Nogay
        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 11: 10
        +4
        Nobody has canceled the rollback system in Russia yet! Allocated lam, floor back!
        Nobody solves this problem either with you or with us! Personally, in my area Vinogradov stole for a very long time and carefully, then, in my opinion, he chafed with Dubai with an airplane full of babos! So that. Duc ktozh he will put him in his own thieves flock of powerful thieves !!!!
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 5 December 2012 11: 15
          +3
          Quote: General_Nogay
          Personally, in my area Vinogradov stole for a very long time and carefully, then, in my opinion, he chafed with Dubai with an airplane full of babos!

          They steal and not a little both from you and ours, or you think that there will be no Russian officials and everything will be in chocolate at once. There will not be such as they stole and will steal, a lot depends on the people. Yes, and you have Russian officials units, see how your local bureaucrats live and everything will be clear who is who.
          1. General_Nogay
            General_Nogay 5 December 2012 11: 42
            0
            Without your humane laws, we will quickly make them invest in the republic! Choose comrade bureaucrats or a password from the safe!
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 5 December 2012 12: 10
              +4
              Quote: General_Nogay
              Without your humane laws, we will quickly make them invest in the republic!

              And where you take money without us, just objectively, what industry. There should be income, and those who have money, your millionaires will be guarded and will not give anything just like that.
              1. General_Nogay
                General_Nogay 5 December 2012 12: 16
                -2
                We have a lot of adequate and smart people! And there are a lot of officers in the ranks of the RF Armed Forces! We will assemble a military team, think over the assault on each fortress and forward. There are more than enough warriors, fortunately, not all of them were given to the cops! So let's make it! And the main income in the future will come from DagDizel and by opening new oil platforms in the Caspian. There are more than enough people who want to pump oil, for example, 50/50. Something like this.
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 5 December 2012 12: 21
                  +4
                  Quote: General_Nogay

                  We have a lot of adequate and smart people!

                  You think so !!
                  Power is a very evil and harmful thing !!
                  and with that mentality, all the same, relatives and friends will be gathered around the main thing, who will say goodbye a lot and that will again lead to corruption !!
                  I need an IDEA and people are infinitely loyal to this idea !!
                  1. General_Nogay
                    General_Nogay 5 December 2012 12: 26
                    -2
                    You are right about the idea! For example, the independence of Dagestan! What is not an idea? But you are independent and someone has captured you? No. Then why can't we be independent?
                    1. hrych
                      hrych 5 December 2012 18: 30
                      +4
                      The Dargins immediately put Nagayans on the kukan, do not go to the fortuneteller.
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 42
                        +2
                        Quote: hrych

                        The Dargins immediately put Nagayans on the kukan, do not go to the fortuneteller.

                        and each other perekolashmatat !!))
                      2. Lakkuchu
                        Lakkuchu 5 December 2012 19: 36
                        -3
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        and each other perekolashmatat !!))

                        This will not happen. The Dagestani peoples have never fought each other in their entire centuries-old history. There were clashes and conflicts between rulers, but never between peoples. Therefore, our republic has always been cited as an example of how numerous peoples can live peacefully on such a small territory. And that in the history of Russia there were no civil strife? So all the talk that the Caucasian peoples before joining Russia fought with each other is complete nonsense! The main conflicts were laid down precisely after the accession. Tsarism acted on the principle of "divide and rule". Borders were drawn wherever they please, in their own interests, dividing peoples, as happened, for example, with the Lezghins.
                      3. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 5 December 2012 19: 43
                        +3
                        Quote: Lakkuchu
                        . Dagestan peoples have never fought each other in the history of many centuries.

                        So achieve this, if your country will not be patronized by some kind of power !!!!
                        Quote: Lakkuchu
                        The main conflicts were laid down precisely after the accession. Tsarism acted on the principle of "divide and rule".

                        This is so and all the Empires in the world acted like that !!!
                        Quote: Lakkuchu
                        Borders were drawn wherever they wanted, in their interests, dividing the peoples, as happened for example with the Lezghins.

                        Also an example !!
                        All this was done to lay the foundation for future conflicts!
                        You yourself have confirmed my point of view !!
                      4. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 18: 51
                        -1
                        Do not believe me that there will be nation after nation! Trouble has always united everyone! We still remember how our grandfathers fought together and they left us a decree to be friends! And I also have relatives among the Dargins)))) how can I go against my own!
                      5. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 5 December 2012 19: 06
                        +2
                        Quote: General_Nogay

                        Do not believe me that there will be nation after nation!

                        Do not believe it ???
                        Believe me, every small state that will be nearby to have an influence will try to plunge your country into a fratricidal war and many will go for it for their personal ambitions !!!
                        But if the largest state Russia wants you to have peace, it will be possible calmly, but even that is not a fact!
                      6. hrych
                        hrych 5 December 2012 19: 54
                        +2
                        When the Ossetians killed the Georgians, mixed marriages did not hurt anyone, just like the common religion. Without the "bloody hand" of Moscow, Nokhchi almost cut each other because of the conditional borders, and here the Kavkasians with the Kypchaks, a couple of stolen rams are enough for the slaughter, as it actually was.
                      7. Yeraz
                        Yeraz 5 December 2012 21: 28
                        +6
                        Quote: General_Nogay
                        Do not believe me that there will be nation after nation! B

                        There will be another way. When there is an opportunity for everyone to create a state, a big war will begin. And the difference between the current and the present, some peoples descended from the mountains (or let down) that the wounded didn’t like. And believe me, the division of Khasavyurt will begin, it’s Avar or Chechen or Kumyk. But given the close proximity of Chechens and Kumyks, they will be against the Avars.
                        graters will begin that you Kumyks are not Caucasians, but Turks bring them to your Altai. Lezgin is generally considered Azerbaijanis (listening to their music and all kinds of cultural elements, this can be argued) And Lezgins are involuntary by the incorrect distribution of posts for them, taking into account their size in the republic. Lezgin and Azerbaijanis are for Derbent. But there will be another moment with the Tabasarans. Lezgins tell them Lezgins, but the Tabasarans persistently assert us the Tabasarans. I can’t say anything about Dargintsev. There will be Chaos. And what will these territories hold on to? State language will be ?? Previously, in the north of Dagestan there was Kumyk in the south of Azerbaijan, but there was a common Turkic and the whole population understood each other. Now they stick to Russian. But with independence, everyone will want to make their own state language. And separated from the Russians make it state no will not. Azerbaijan will be forced to enter into this conflict, just like Turkey over the Kumyks and Azerbaijanis, but in what form the question is. Dagestan in the current territorial if it is separated from the Russian Federation, it will not survive. There is no state of a forming people. Everyone has different languages. And everyone loves themselves madly, like in the whole Caucasus. The only hypothetical option is an Islamic association.
                        But the level of nationalism is so high that this option is impossible.

                        Heydar Aliyev also said that if there is war at any point in the Caucasus, it will be a disaster for the Caucasus, but if war begins in Dagestan it will be a DISASTER for the whole Caucasus.
                      8. Lakkuchu
                        Lakkuchu 6 December 2012 08: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Yeraz
                        Heydar Aliyev also said that if there is war at any point in the Caucasus, it will be a disaster for the Caucasus, but if war begins in Dagestan it will be a DISASTER for the whole Caucasus.

                        In this he was right. I think not only for the Caucasus. I will cite the words of another wise Caucasian Rasul Gamzatov: "Dagestan did not enter Russia voluntarily, and it will not leave voluntarily."
                      9. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 6 December 2012 05: 51
                        0
                        Quote: General_Nogay
                        Trouble has always united everyone!

                        Misfortune unites, and warrior corrodes.
                    2. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 46
                      +1
                      Quote: General_Nogay
                      You are right about the idea! For example, the independence of Dagestan! What is not an idea? But you are independent and someone has captured you? No. Then why can't we be independent?

                      I think we succeeded in bludogory to the situation in the world and the political reality of such a time!
                      What we now have, I think, was also largely succeeded by blogging thanks to G. Aliyev and his genius, but this is my subjective opinion !!
                      I think if it weren’t for him, we would be in a terrible situation now and looking at us, no one would want INDEPENDENCE!
                      Why not ?? possible, but my opinion is more you lose than you get!
                    3. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov 6 December 2012 05: 49
                      0
                      Quote: General_Nogay
                      But you are independent and someone has captured you? No. Then why can't we be independent

                      You look at the subject itself, Azerbaijan and Degestan and everything will become clear, the only sober look and count.
                  2. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 5 December 2012 12: 27
                    +2
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    Yarbay

                    Alibek, yes, in the bathhouse in Dagestan, Sparrow’s daughter was born, he’s in zyuzyu drinks Sasha Sparrow, from the whole of Sait and from myself personally ......... The best gift for a friend, Congratulations !!! Bring it home drinks I'm going to the shop wink
                    1. General_Nogay
                      General_Nogay 5 December 2012 12: 30
                      +3
                      Here is the Russian mentality. The future of Russia and the Caucasus is being discussed, and he is in the bathhouse and in the store. Here at such a pace, yes, everything is in the bathhouse; better, I'd rather get drunk and Russia will fall apart!
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 5 December 2012 18: 31
                        +3
                        It is not for Caucasians to decide the fate of the Caucasus; Moscow, Washington and Brussels will decide.
                      2. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 18: 53
                        0
                        Well, it’s not for you exactly !!!!
                        The maximum that you can decide is to write nasty things to me or not!
                      3. hrych
                        hrych 5 December 2012 20: 02
                        +3
                        You have good reasoning, but only for a student. This site is the winner of the "Glory to Russia" competition, the officers are sitting here, mostly of venerable age, they certainly do not play Counter Strike. Choose another site by age and subject, even though the chatterboxes from the Imaratakavkaz were banned, find something similar.
                      4. Lakkuchu
                        Lakkuchu 5 December 2012 19: 06
                        +3
                        Quote: hrych
                        It is not for Caucasians to decide the fate of the Caucasus; Moscow, Washington and Brussels will decide.

                        The most interesting thing is that the Russians do not decide the fate of Russia, it is decided by another people, not so numerous, but very smart and cunning .. By the way, you yourself admit, judging by the comments on the site.
                      5. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 5 December 2012 19: 25
                        +2
                        Quote: Lakkuchu
                        not so numerous, but very smart and cunning ..

                        killed)))))))))))))))))))))))) It’s necessary to add a scary one)))))))))))))))
                        True, not everyone recognizes, but there is such a part on the site)))))))))))))))
                        ++++++++++++++++++++++
                      6. hrych
                        hrych 5 December 2012 20: 04
                        +2
                        Well, not without it, but everything in this world is relative.
                      7. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 6 December 2012 06: 02
                        +2
                        Quote: hrych
                        It is not for Caucasians to decide the fate of the Caucasus; Moscow, Washington and Brussels will decide.

                        Brussels and Washington can go to a well-known three-letter address. hi
                      8. hrych
                        hrych 6 December 2012 17: 30
                        +2
                        In Transcaucasia, they have positions, but the Caucasian Ridge, our fortress, in vain did chatter the Imereti adversary. And yet, it is nice that our soldiers first encountered BlackWater specialists and they did not return home.
                      9. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 6 December 2012 06: 01
                        +3
                        Quote: General_Nogay
                        The future of Russia and the Caucasus is being discussed, and he is in the bathhouse and in the store. Here at such a pace, yes, everything is in the bathhouse; better, I'd rather get drunk and Russia will fall apart!

                        The fate of the Caucasus is not decided here and now, when your friend has a baby, you can send anyone to the bathhouse. With regards to dependence, those who say this today blow up compatriots and do not look at nationality. The fate of Dagestan is already decided, I like who it or not. Many people have been dreaming about the collapse of Russia for centuries, but Russia will stand and will stand.
                    2. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 5 December 2012 13: 47
                      +3
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      Yes, in the bathhouse in Dagestan, Sparrow’s daughter was born, he’s in a dungeon Sasha Vorobey, from all the Sait and from himself ......... The best gift for a friend, Congratulations !!! Bring me home to such a store.

                      In the bath the whole world)))
                      Such an event)))))
                2. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 6 December 2012 05: 47
                  +3
                  Quote: General_Nogay
                  We have a lot of adequate and smart people!

                  We also have a lot, but they did not help.
                  Quote: General_Nogay
                  We will assemble a military team, think over the assault of each fortress and forward. There are more than enough warriors, fortunately not everyone gave the weapons to the cops!

                  And this is already a full-scale civil warrior, it will be possible to fight for a decade and will not achieve anything, but in the end no one will remember how it all began.
                  Quote: General_Nogay
                  And the main income in the future will come from DagDizel and by opening new oil platforms in the Caspian. There are more than enough people who want to pump oil, for example 50/50

                  Diesel still needs to be sold, but with the existing competition, it’s not so easy. As for the Caspian Sea, we need mining platforms, we need pumping, and this is billions of dollars. So just give some kind of American Shell, but they won’t take it. Russia just won’t give good and all. Azerbaijan also wants to swing, but it’s not so simple, ask Alibek.
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 6 December 2012 16: 50
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Diesel still needs to be sold, but with the existing competition, it’s not so easy. As for the Caspian Sea, we need mining platforms, we need pumping, and this is billions of dollars. So just give some kind of American Shell, but they won’t take it. Russia just won’t give good and all. Azerbaijan also wants to swing, but it’s not so simple, ask Alibek.
                    I affirm !!!
                    Thanks to G. Aliyev, where the period of stability began in 95 and various projects began to be implemented, only in 2002 they began to receive normal dividends! Since 2008, we can already say that Azerbaijan has taken place as a State! At that time, large investments began, and in 2010, they began to give multimillion loans to world countries !!
                    All this is thanks to the good price of oil and gas too !! after all, in the early 90s oil was worth $ 9, now it costs more than $ 100 !!
                    There have been dozens of destabilization attempts and coup attempts in this way !!
                    They involved all the countries that could participate !!
                  2. hrych
                    hrych 6 December 2012 17: 36
                    +3
                    Romanitch storming each fortress, Did not alert you? This is a counter strike in the head and medieval thinking. What further to talk about, it’s better he said that the Nogais will ponder and launch a combat spaceship and take fortifications in orbit.
          2. donchepano
            donchepano 5 December 2012 12: 05
            0
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            They steal and not a little both from you and ours, or you think that there will be no Russian officials and everything will be in chocolate at once. There will not be such as they stole and will steal, a lot depends on the people. Yes, and you have Russian officials units


            "Russian" officials ... smiled ... no, laughed ...
            Where did you see Russian or Ukrainian or Belarusian officials in Russia?
            if he has a surname Russian Ukrainian Belarusian German then this does not mean at all that there is a Russian Ukrainian Belarusian or German
            1. General_Nogay
              General_Nogay 5 December 2012 12: 09
              0
              And who put them in power? Or do you still believe that our elections are the most honest?
              1. donchepano
                donchepano 5 December 2012 16: 03
                0
                Quote: General_Nogay
                And who put them in power? Or do you still believe that our elections are the most honest?


                what fair elections? what are you talking about ... fear the almighty
        2. vyatom
          vyatom 5 December 2012 12: 00
          +2
          Here you are right. I’ll do it. Upstairs rotten people sooo much now. From there, everything is a problem. This is Russia's disaster today. There are no people with state thinking.
          And what about corruption in Ingushetia and Dagestan?
          1. General_Nogay
            General_Nogay 5 December 2012 12: 06
            +3
            And how can things be if the stools are free? No way, unfortunately!
          2. Yarbay
            Yarbay 5 December 2012 12: 17
            +3
            Quote: vyatom
            There are no people with state thinking.

            This is amazing!
            It seems that such people just survive !!
            It cannot be that only Serdyukovs, Skryniki and others like them lived and could be ministers in a hundred millionth country !!!
    2. vyatom
      vyatom 5 December 2012 12: 04
      +7
      Why are the squelch? Just the opposite. If you are right, then we will give you a plus. If not, then no.
  11. donchepano
    donchepano 5 December 2012 11: 10
    +4
    Samsonov ++ 1000
    Indeed, the enemies are sleeping and seeing when the Caucasus is burning and the war begins in the Caucasus, all against all
    Someone sleeps and sees the project of the great Khazaria, which for many years drank blood and plundered the Slavic peoples, someone likes "Great" Armenia ... and a bunch of all sorts of "Great" ones.
    Forget only the "great" that God forbid, of course, if something happens, then a big war of all against all will begin. The Georgians will return Abkhazia with South Ossetia, which means they will stand up to protect the Circassians, Azerbaijan, with the help of Turkey, will once again "straighten" Armenia and very smoothly. The Vainakhs will try to dominate by force of arms, since they are excellent warriors - poor Ossetians are not to be envied. Karachai Balkars will not want to live in Great Circassia There will be no end and edge. It’s just a pity that it could only start in fulfillment of the plans of the Committee of 300 and the Bilderbergers to destroy Russia.
    And this will only rally and mobilize the Russian people in the face of the threat of annihilation and force them to act very tough without sentimentality towards the initiators of destruction and coups
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. General_Nogay
          General_Nogay 5 December 2012 17: 34
          0
          Thank you Just someone had to give them a mug, tk. we all went to the patrol, then the boys decided: in the patrol, there’s more --- privileges in the service, so we should besiege them. And that's it, go ahead for your homeland!
      2. hrych
        hrych 5 December 2012 20: 51
        +2
        What are you talking about?
  12. Lakkuchu
    Lakkuchu 5 December 2012 11: 23
    +4
    I would like to comment on a few quotes from the article:
    ..With these wars, Russia, in a difficult struggle with Persia, the Ottoman Empire and the Caucasian feudal lords, defended its own statehood, national dignity, defended and expanded Russian borders ..
    Pushed the limits of Russia - this is the main goal for which the capture of the Caucasus was carried out, everything else is secondary.
    ..Thus, the most famous part of the history of the Caucasian Wars is the Caucasian War of 1817-1864. However, all these wars demanded of Russia a great effort of forces and means. And most importantly - the lives of many thousands of Russians, whose memory we are now offered to betray ..
    ..At the price of the hard efforts and blood of thousands of Russian soldiers, many ethnic groups of the Caucasus were given the opportunity to preserve their identity without becoming “Turks” or “Persians” ..
    Again, not a word about the thousands of victims on the part of the already small peoples of the Caucasus themselves, but it is clear who cares about the lives of some natives, "non-Russians".
    ..found hope for a cultural, scientific and educational take-off and economic prosperity. I must say that these hopes were realized. The decades of the Caucasus being part of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union have completely transformed this region ..
    .. Forget that the level of security and well-being of the Caucasian peoples, from joining Russia has increased dramatically ..
    And here everything is fair, to deny it is stupid.
  13. Oidsoldier
    Oidsoldier 5 December 2012 12: 35
    +2
    Why did Russia need the Caucasus? By and large, this is a move in the "Great Game" against the British Empire, for the influence on India. This time is gone. The subordination of the Caucasus was a tactical necessity and the tsarist government never treated these regions as their own, but considered them and the population indigenous. It has always been a black hole devouring financial and human resources. Past sacrifices are not worth the sacrifices of today, and even more so future, if everything is left as it is. I remember Dudaev's words that the Russian army was given the wrong task. She fights with armed formations, and must destroy all Chechens without exception. I think he's right. But no one will go to such a war, so there will be no victory. There will be a permanent bloody wound in the North Caucasian republics, the dominance of ethnic criminals in Russia, and the rise of separatism in Islamic enclaves. Failure to act in opposition to this is weakness, any movement for pacification is a violation of human rights and a civil war. Isn't that where things go? Isn't that what foreign "well-wishers" are trying to achieve? Do I need to follow their lead?
    Solution: Caucasus independence through a referendum, to take our people to Russia, ALL Caucasians (regardless of positions and positions) - to their small homeland. Intelligence agencies organize their networks of influence. Set up a border so that no mouse crawls through. Being safe to sow discord, divide and rule, arm and encourage various groups of Caucasians, let them sort things out among themselves, so that not a single NATO female @ could snoop around here. Such controlled chaos will also give profit. Strengthen order in other unreliable regions. Why, for example, the bandits did not shoot the Wahhabis? What do special services think?
    1. General_Nogay
      General_Nogay 5 December 2012 12: 43
      0
      Being safe to sow discord, divide and rule, arm and encourage various groups of Caucasians, let them sort things out among themselves, so that not a single NATO female @ could snoop around here. Such controlled chaos will also give profit.
      But isn’t all this happening now. That's because of this and a negative attitude towards you!
      1. vyatom
        vyatom 5 December 2012 13: 05
        +3
        Oh well. What should we do for ordinary people? I personally have nothing to do with chaos in the Caucasus.
        And as far as I heard, funding for the groups of Caucasians comes just from Turkey and the rich Arab countries. So maybe there should be such a negative attitude towards them?
      2. webdog
        webdog 5 December 2012 14: 48
        +2
        General_Nogay, you say everything correctly)))
        let the bandits fight with the bandits, so that fewer normal guys die because of the gangster squabbles.
        so that allah akbar! let all the bandits in the Caucasus shoot each other.
        even though in this our leadership did the right thing. it’s better to give subsidies to the region, but this is not comparable to the civil war ...
        and so they are beating each other, messing around ... here and the United States will not fit ... a mess, as you said - MANAGED!)))
        but our general foot))))))) is not enough for the general ... a stern look ... computer armed to the teeth))
        SO THIS TROL !!!!
        1. General_Nogay
          General_Nogay 5 December 2012 17: 41
          -4
          The web dog barks, and the caravan goes on!
          1. hrych
            hrych 5 December 2012 18: 34
            +4
            Weak, you, for a caravan, a virtual artilleryman.
        2. hrych
          hrych 5 December 2012 18: 33
          +2
          Normal policy, it is especially necessary to learn from the arrogant Saxons, divide and rule.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 47
            -1
            Quote: hrych

            Normal policy, it is especially necessary to learn from the arrogant Saxons, divide and rule.

            Of course you need to study, but it seems to me not to study !!
            1. hrych
              hrych 5 December 2012 19: 27
              +2
              A little bit of it even turns out, the only thing is that there is no cold-cruel pragmatism of Britons and often snot.
      3. donchepano
        donchepano 5 December 2012 17: 28
        +1
        Quote: General_Nogay
        Being safe to sow discord, divide and rule, arm and encourage various groups of Caucasians, let them sort things out among themselves, so that not a single NATO female @ could snoop around here. Such controlled chaos will also bring profit. But isn’t all this happening now


        sow discord, chaos ...
        there is such an ancient people. and very smart
        1. General_Nogay
          General_Nogay 5 December 2012 17: 39
          0
          Yes there is and it seems to work well since we are here even ready to gnaw each other!
    2. vyatom
      vyatom 5 December 2012 13: 13
      +7
      You write nonsense. Russia sought to secure its southern borders, and hence the war with Turkey and Persia. As well as the entry of the Caucasus into the sphere of influence of Russia. And the British were afraid that at such a pace Russia would quickly reach India.
      And it was the Caucasian peoples: Georgians, Ossetians, Armenians, who wanted to join the Russian Empire, so as not to be destroyed by Turks and Persians. Further, the Turks and Persians, instigated by the English, essentially organized a fire of a long Caucasian war.
      1. MilaPhone
        MilaPhone 5 December 2012 19: 03
        +1
        Something I did not understand, who is this young man similar to Brusley!
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 5 December 2012 19: 26
          +2
          Quote: Milafon

          Something I did not understand, who is this young man similar to Brusley!

          Brotherhood says that military secret))))))))))))
  14. Yarbay
    Yarbay 5 December 2012 12: 51
    +6
    Quote: General_Nogay
    arm and encourage various groups of Caucasians

    So it was !!
    In various conflicts, in different ways!
    In our country they armed Armenians, in Georgia Abkhazians and Ossetians, in Ossetia again in Ingushetia !! In Dagestan, Makhachev was helped a lot at one time, then behind the scenes they helped the Khachalaev brothers, then Sergei didn’t remember his name and so on !!
    People see all this locally !!
    I just think simple Russians do not know about it or simply were not interested!
  15. survivor
    survivor 5 December 2012 13: 48
    +3
    in principle, the same policy is also being carried out now. for the sake of power, politicians pit two nations. Caucasians are positioned as an internal enemy, and is that so? it’s just that people, if they don’t get scared of horror stories like Caucasians and all kinds of enemies from outside, will quickly throw off all this power. That's why the law is on the side of hooligans from the Caucasus! If you do not give indulgence once or twice, then all this will stop and then the people will , instead of spending all his anger on Caucasians, he will start pouring it on the government, there is something for that !!!! how does it end, I think no need to explain? I’ve tried to explain on this project more than once that the Caucasus is just as interested in Russia as Russia is in the Caucasus, but instead of arguing, based on a thorough analysis, I get only hysterical vyser, and quoting me a thousand times to the post, the historian Vinogradov. according to his search, it generally turns out that the Alans, the ancestors of the Ossetians, and all the other ethnic groups of the Caucasus, were the B.Ya. unknowing roots !!!!. it turns out that a Hrestian is a faithful ally and support of the fatherland, and those who profess Islam are simply traitors and rebels !!! and it happened in Russia, despite the fact that ALL world wars, the same Bulgaria was against Russia. Serbia also recalls that they are Orthodox, only when the roasted rooster has all the coccyx bent, Georgia, the first ally! here Georgia has shown its true face to you. rejoice!
  16. DAGESTAN333
    DAGESTAN333 5 December 2012 13: 58
    +10
    it is obvious that any demands to abandon the North Caucasus, separate it from the Russian Federation, this is a real betrayal of interests Russian people and Russian statehood. It is necessary to protect, protect and cleanse your land from various kinds of “garbage” (including in human form), and not give it to the aggressor.


    All these wars demanded from Russia a great effort of forces and means. AND the most important thing - the lives of many thousands of Russians

    - Well, Samsonov, whom I respected (for my directness), decided not to touch on technical aspects like burnt, and often completely destroyed, Caucasian villages, because it is only about the well-being of the Russian people, about how closely the Russian people are their land, the size of half Eurasia ...

    Our dear Russian brothers, your greatness for us is not that you can collect 40 mln if necessary. bayonets, but the fact that you have the idea of ​​equality and fraternity for all peoples going with you into the future.
    1. Lakkuchu
      Lakkuchu 5 December 2012 14: 19
      +1
      Quote: DAGESTANETS333
      Our dear Russian brothers, your greatness for us is not that you can collect 40 mln if necessary. bayonets, but the fact that you have the idea of ​​equality and fraternity for all peoples going with you into the future.

      True, only this idea was, and now more and more ideas like "Russia for Russians", etc.
  17. baltika-18
    baltika-18 5 December 2012 14: 00
    +5
    You can discuss endlessly. How many different projects have been thrown now. "Great Ottomania", "Great Caliphate", "Great Azerbaijan", "Great Circassia", there was "Great Ichkeria" and how many more similar concepts will be thrown into the minds of people starting with the words great. Do you just think so? Just like that, nothing happens. The goal is one - to take Russia apart, as the USSR was taken away, that there were wars, there were conflicts. People buy into it. Who does not want to become great without making any efforts. , proclaim independence and that's it, tomorrow you are great, and no one thinks that the day after tomorrow you will not be great at all. You can become great only together, on the basis of one common idea accepted by all, which unfortunately at this stage is not possible. The elite is not she wants it, she doesn't need it, and it's so good. Why are you swearing? Everyone needed capitalism in the 90s, everyone wanted wealth, nourishing food, and command. Capitalism is not for everyone, it is for a minority. Wait now, until Russia is will change, there will be wars and shelter it will flow for illusory ideals that are invented and do not exist objectively.
  18. survivor
    survivor 5 December 2012 14: 05
    +5
    in fact of the matter. while we are driven into the subcortex by the presence of enemies, instead of constructing our Homeland, we spend energy and energy on a civil strife!
    with the same success you can focus on the Bashkirs, Karelians, Yakuts, or Tatars.
  19. donchepano
    donchepano 5 December 2012 14: 29
    +5
    PEOPLE of all nationalities !! Let's live in peace!
    Well, they are fucking Americans and Anglo-Saxons who do not stop working to pit everyone and everything again in their globalist, mondealist interests ...
    With respect to all ..))
  20. survivor
    survivor 5 December 2012 14: 40
    +3
    There are many Muslim countries that support Russia in all endeavors, namely those that support, and not lick, the zhpu! However, it has always been that tsarism, one hundred Soviet power relied on Christians. many always remind me of the betrayal of the Chechen people and the Ingush people (although God sees, the number of Russian traitors has not been replayed by anyone), and everyone somehow forgets that at that moment, when the very same Ingushetia supported the Bolsheviks for the most part, among the Ossetians, the Soviet republic did not receive any support whatsoever .. it’s not in vain that the monument in Grozny was Gikalo (Russian), Sheripov (Chechen), Akhriev (Ingush)! My grandfather was also at that time, the second secretary of the Party’s OBKOM told me during my childhood to me that the Ossetians of the Bolsheviks, in order to show that there are such, searched all over Ossetia and barely scraped one cell. Yes, and that, but local, but living in Russia! and yet, when he was never hostile to a thread of one of the nationalities, he always said that a large percentage of thieves and bribe takers prevailed among Ossetian leaders .. so he knew what he was talking about !!!
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 5 December 2012 16: 24
      +1
      Quote: survivor
      that among the leaders of the Ossetians

      I do not like to talk about this and do not offend Ossetians, but my great-grandfather told me when we were children that in the Caucasus only Armenians and Ossetians were not allowed to carry weapons in Tsarist time !!
      What if he is not military, you will not see him in a picture with a dagger !!
      1. Wanderer1980
        Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 16: 49
        +3
        During World War II in relation number of drafted / number of awarded Hero of the USSR Star Ossetians in first place among all the nationalities of the USSR who took part in the Great Patriotic War.

        Did your grandfather not tell you about this? wink
        The Ossetians have 30 Heroes of the USSR, the Azerbaijanis (including Talysh and Lezghins) 35. Anticipating your question, the Armenians have 70.
        How many Ossetians have been called up and how many Azerbaijanis do you know in WWII?
        Did your grandfather tell you?
        1. kNow
          kNow 5 December 2012 16: 53
          +1
          Quote: Wanderer1980
          Armenians have 70.

          what is so little? considering how Armenians drag their ears up - 70 is not enough :)
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 5 December 2012 17: 04
            -3
            Quote: kNow
            considering how Armenians drag their ears up - 70 is not enough

            Moreover, look at Bagryamyan’s track record, he commanded not one part of the tank, nor the battalion, nor the regiment, nor the division, but successfully arching at the headquarters he became a marshal, did not participate in any battle, but his chest was in orders))))
            I personally applaud !!)))
            1. MilaPhone
              MilaPhone 5 December 2012 18: 21
              +2
              Soviet generals do not touch!
              Dedicate their virtual applause to the Azerbaijani generals, who have won 108 million virtual wars, hung with medals.
              1. kNow
                kNow 5 December 2012 18: 34
                +3
                [/ Center]



                generals of the tsarist or Soviet army?





                And as an educational program I advise:
                http://military-az.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=76
              2. Yarbay
                Yarbay 5 December 2012 18: 50
                0
                Quote: Milafon
                Soviet generals do not touch!

                I know who I'm touching))))))))))
                And I don’t think Tukhachevsky is a marshal !!
                But Baghramyan participated in what battle ??
                Which regiment in the Great Patriotic War he commanded, thanks to the patronage of Mikayan, he rode to the headquarters and received the rank of marshal !!
                If not so come on the facts !!
                Azerbaijani generals won, just as they lost in real wars!
                1. MilaPhone
                  MilaPhone 5 December 2012 19: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Yarbay

                  Googled! And you’ll be fooled Or rather be upset.
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 5 December 2012 19: 30
                    -1
                    Quote: Milafon

                    Googled! And you’ll be fooled Or rather be upset.

                    Why google, I’ll give you a secret one more information, for thought!)) You will take an interest in who, in spite of the fact that the State Commission chose a completely different main battle tank, struck the T-72 bypassing the decision, by all means and untruthful, despite the obvious problems at that time !!
                    And why, for what purpose?
                    Kars-Andrey knows this story very well!
                    1. donchepano
                      donchepano 5 December 2012 22: 57
                      -1
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      take an interest in who, in spite of the fact that the State Commission chose a completely different main battle tank, struck the T-72 bypassing the solution, by hook or by crook, despite the obvious problems at the time !! And why, for what purpose?



                      I would also like to be aware of what there is for the next dirty tricks with the tanks and whose fault?
                      If Yarbai does not complicate, enlighten us please
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 6 December 2012 16: 56
                        0
                        Quote: donchepano
                        I would also like to be aware of what there is for the next dirty tricks with the tanks and whose fault?
                        If Yarbai does not complicate, enlighten us please

                        Kars-Andrei has all the documents and calculations about the tank problems identified at that time!
                        He can tell you in more detail, I think Andrei if you ask in the face will write !!
                        I remember from memory that it was the commander of the armored forces at that time Babajanyan!
                        And it was very interesting, why he did it !!
                      2. donchepano
                        donchepano 6 December 2012 18: 45
                        -1
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Kars-Andrei has all the documents and calculations about the problems of the tank identified at that time! He can tell you in more detail, I think Andrey if you write in the face !! I remember from memory that it was the commander of the armored forces at that time Babajanyan! And it was very interesting, why he did it !!


                        Thanks comrade Marshal ...))



                        So now, would Kars Andrey find somewhere ...

                        Dear Andrey Kars !!!!! Please respond to the request !!
                        We kindly ask, please give what Yarbai said
                      3. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 7 December 2012 00: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: donchepano

                        So now, would Kars Andrey find somewhere ...

                        Dear Andrey Kars !!!!! Please respond to the request !!
                        We kindly ask, please give what Yarbai said

                        Unfortunately, I contacted Andrei; he does not remember this article, but I promise you that I will try to find it within two days !!
                        I look through the archive !!
                2. donchepano
                  donchepano 5 December 2012 22: 51
                  +1
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  And I don’t think Tukhachevsky is a marshal !!


                  yes Yarbay such as Tukhlochevsiy soldier with women and old men with children scum still need to look .. And from Poland, in my opinion skedaddle put him in front of his cavalry. Yes, the destroyers mocked the people. Sverdlovs, Trotsky and other "kind-hearted men"
              3. donchepano
                donchepano 6 December 2012 21: 37
                -1
                Quote: Milafon
                Soviet generals do not touch! Dedicate their virtual applause to the Azerbaijani generals, who have won 108 million virtual wars, hung with medals.


                Armenian-Soviet generals already untouchable?
                Milafyan, you already appeared here and tell everyone
                why did you command that do not touch the other, do not touch .. Ill chtoli? afraid of ticklish ....
          2. donchepano
            donchepano 5 December 2012 18: 30
            -3
            quote = kNow]
            what is so little? given how the Armenians drag their ears upstairs - 70 is not enough :) [/ quote]

            ))) yes, he smiled))) the Armenian people have the most heroes of the Soviet Union
            and in general all the best ..
            And I remember the supercar ERAZ almost Volkswagen,
            Yerevan automobile tires made seems from soot because there were enough wheels for a week
            chewing gum to taste like the sole of an army boot.
            Metalworking machines from which mechanics escaped in factories
            Karts for teenagers were just super - they broke on the first kilometer.
            Yes, and all sorts of inventions and discoveries. So it seems for the first time in the late 80s that Armenian scientists invented a cure for AIDS, even in America's voice there was a transmission (they are still probably treating it), but soon everything quickly died down. Another zilch

            Generally a "heroic" people. always and in everything. and everywhere.
            Especially now in the field of nutrition and nutrition)))
            1. Wanderer1980
              Wanderer1980 5 December 2012 18: 36
              -2
              ))) yes, he smiled))) the Armenian people have the most heroes of the Soviet Union


              And so, that in the text
              During the Great Patriotic War, the ratio of the number of those called up / the number of the Heroes of the USSR awarded with the Star Ossetians in first place among all the nationalities of the USSR that took part in the Second World War.

              You, dear, are reading in Russian?
      2. donchepano
        donchepano 6 December 2012 08: 01
        0
        Quote: Yarbay
        only Armenians and Ossetians were not allowed to carry weapons in Tsarist time !!


        :))) In the sense that as children they can cut themselves playing with a dagger ...))
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 6 December 2012 18: 17
          0
          Honestly, what the reason was for this decision, I don’t know, but then many years later I read about it with a Dagestan writer, alas, I don’t remember the name and surname !!
          Quote: donchepano
          :))) In the sense that as children they can cut themselves playing with a dagger ...))
  21. Lakkuchu
    Lakkuchu 5 December 2012 14: 47
    +4
    Quote: donchepano

    PEOPLE of all nationalities !! Let's live in peace!

    I with both hands FOR. Let's respect each other regardless of nationality and religion, let's keep track of the words that we use here, especially since it is written in the rules of the site. How much you can use and miss offensive nicknames (this is to the moderators)!
    1. serjant4
      serjant4 5 December 2012 15: 46
      +3
      Quote: donchepano

      PEOPLE of all nationalities !! Let's live in peace!


      + with all your fingers!
    2. donchepano
      donchepano 5 December 2012 16: 18
      +3
      Quote: Lakkuchu
      I with both hands FOR. Let's respect each other regardless of nationality and religion, let's keep track of the words that we use here, especially since it is written in the rules of the site. How much you can use and miss offensive nicknames (this is to the moderators)!


      live like good neighbors (choosing a house, choose a neighbor first) and even like brothers
      just remember that there are a lot of freaks in all nations, and there are a lot of provocateurs, but the majority are normal anyway.)
      And trouble always rallied.
      1. General_Nogay
        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 17: 36
        +1
        I, too, with both hands FOR! Plus
  22. Tatarus
    Tatarus 5 December 2012 17: 05
    +4
    Yes, I am a Nazi. But my nation consists of Russians, Tatars, Mordovians. I think so, on the territory of Russia, the titular nations should have priority. I consider the titular nations all whose historical estates are in the geographical space of Russia. But all those who defended their home from the Nazis in my understanding of HEROES. It doesn’t matter who he is a rhino or Siberian bast.

    Glory to all of them, thanks to all their ancestors, their reminder to all descendants. Remember the grandfather, become a hero. Hereby, for whom mom is always at home, keeps dinner hot
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 5 December 2012 17: 55
      -1
      Tatarus
      Quote: Tatarus
      Yes, I am a Nazi.


      Quote: Tatarus
      But all those who defended their home from the Nazis in my understanding of HEROES. It doesn’t matter who he is a rhino or Siberian bast.


      Dear you contradict yourself.
  23. survivor
    survivor 5 December 2012 17: 13
    0
    and what is the title territory of Russia?
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 5 December 2012 17: 53
      +8
      Quote: survivor
      and what is the title territory of Russia?

      the question is certainly not for me, but somehow fellow !
  24. donchepano
    donchepano 5 December 2012 20: 52
    0
    Quote: Karlsonn
    Karlsonn Today, 17:53 ↑ ↓


    Quote: survivor what is the titular territory of Russia?


    HERE HUMORIST CARLSON ...
    THERE IS STILL ENERGY IN THE BATTERY !!!
    NEED TO THINK ABOUT AN IDEA :))
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 5 December 2012 22: 00
      +1
      donchepano

      As Comrade Stalin said on 13 of April 1928 of the year: “... There are no such fortresses in the world that the working people, the Bolsheviks, could not take. We didn’t take such fortresses in our struggle with the bourgeoisie ... ”!
      1. donchepano
        donchepano 5 December 2012 23: 53
        0
        Quote: Karlsonn
        As Comrade Stalin said on 13 of April 1928 of the year: “... There are no such fortresses in the world that the working people, the Bolsheviks, could not take. We didn’t take such fortresses in our struggle with the bourgeoisie ... ”!


        yes + and as applied to our time:
        there is no fortress that donkey cannot loaded with gold ..
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 6 December 2012 13: 01
          0
          donchepano

          Quote: donchepano
          donkey loaded with gold ..


          and this is Philip, the father of Alexander of Macedon said regarding the Greeks, who at the time were the embodiment of debauchery and low moral qualities,
          Quote: donchepano
          in relation to our time


          Well, don’t need it so categorically, here I am not for sale, I think that you, too, and there are many of us soldier .
  25. George
    George 5 December 2012 22: 18
    -1
    I bought a book by A. Shishov "Double-headed eagle over the Caucasus". Here is what they write about the eviction:
    Among the registered migrants on 1949, there were 1 024 722 people. German nationality (Russian Germans), about 640 thousand Chechens, Ingush, Karachais and Balkars, 92 thousand Kalmyks, 692 thousand former kulaks (mostly Russians), 194 thousand Crimean Tatars, about 40 thousand Greeks, Armenians and Bulgarians from Crimea, about 30 thousand of Greeks from Abkhazia and the Krasnodar Territory, about 100 thousand of Turks from Meskhetia, Kurds and Hemshin, more than 400 thousand of Poles, citizens of Ukraine and Belarus (why it is not clear to me ator), more than 203 thousand of Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians, 12 thousand of Finns, 172 thousand of Koreans, 8 thousand of ki aytsev, 8 thousand. Iranians and representatives of other nations.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 6 December 2012 13: 05
      +1
      Quote: GEORGE
      I bought a book by A. Shishov "Double-headed eagle over the Caucasus".


      Quote: GEORGE
      172 thousand of Koreans, 8 thousand of Chinese


      what side to the Caucasus, the two-headed eagle --- the Chinese, Koreans and 1949 year in particular? Shishov is a rare liar, if the purpose of buying a book was not to familiarize yourself with the thought process of corrupt writers, I dare say:
      - wasted money sad .
      1. George
        George 7 December 2012 00: 30
        -1
        what side to the Caucasus, the two-headed eagle --- the Chinese, Koreans and 1949 year in particular?
        This I mean that not only Caucasians got it.
        Shishov rare liar
        Tell a true writer
      2. donchepano
        donchepano 10 December 2012 19: 01
        0
        Quote: Karlsonn

        Shishov is a rare liar ... wasted money.


        So the name is so talking ... lying and showing cookies ..))
  26. BRATISHKA
    BRATISHKA 6 December 2012 06: 34
    +1
    weakened the conversation of the mountaineer with the delegate :)
    http://youtu.be/5efSAlMEdSQ?t=1m5s
  27. donchepano
    donchepano 6 December 2012 08: 10
    0
    Comrade Marshal! (dear Yarbai) do not forget the request about the publication of the "advancements" of armored vehicles and the tank concerned and the involvement of your favorite "friends" in this
  28. Yarbay
    Yarbay 6 December 2012 18: 49
    0
    Quote: donchepano
    do not forget to ask about the publication of the "promotions" of armored vehicles and the tank concerned and the involvement of your favorite "friends in this.

    I wrote to you both here and in the face!
    I'm not a marshal))))
    I’m friend to you, comrade!)))))
  29. I. Brovkin
    I. Brovkin 6 December 2012 20: 17
    +1
    Yes, I am a Nazi. But my nation consists of Russians, Tatars, Mordovians. I think so, on the territory of Russia, the titular nations should have priority. I consider the titular nations all whose historical estates are in the geographical space of Russia. But all those who defended their home from the Nazis in my understanding of HEROES. It doesn’t matter who he is a rhino or Siberian bast.

    I agree with you, but it would still be nice to equalize these titular nations, otherwise it will again turn out that "we wanted the best, but it turned out as always."