Prigozhin: Defense Ministry allocates Wagner PMC the amount of ammunition and weapons necessary to continue the offensive

Assault detachments of PMC "Wagner" will receive as many shells as necessary to continue the offensive in Artemovsk. This was stated by the curator of the "Orchestra" Yevgeny Prigozhin.

The Ministry of Defense promised Wagner shells and weapon, and in the volumes requested by the "Orchestra". The PMC has already received the appropriate combat order, as well as carte blanche for any actions aimed at continuing the offensive in Artemovsk. According to Prigozhin, there are no people who want to leave the ranks of PMCs and move to other units.

Tonight we received a combat order. We are promised to give ammunition and weapons as much as we need to continue further actions.

- he said.

In addition, the Ministry of Defense appointed a person responsible for the interaction between the military and PMCs, this will be handled by Sergei Surovikin, who is very respected in the "Orchestra" and under whom there was no talk of any "shell hunger". Apparently, the parties nevertheless came to some kind of decision that suits everyone, now the Wagner will continue hostilities in the city.

And Surovikin is the only person with the star of an army general who knows how to fight. There is no more reasonable person with this star

Prigogine added.

Earlier, the curator of the "Orchestra" said that he was withdrawing units of the PMC "Wagner" from Artemovsk to preserve the personnel. The "musicians" refused to fight in the absence of ammunition. At 0:00 on May 10, the "Wagnerites" were to be replaced by the units of "Akhmat", Kadyrov has already confirmed this and sent a corresponding letter addressed to Vladimir Putin.

Comments

[Fantazer911]

Looks like some in the Moscow Region got the video, they scratched their turnips and decided to supply the guys with everything necessary, there really is no Stalin and Beria in our power, the mess is treated according to the laws of wartime! In reality, they warm their seats for our money, and the guys, sons, fathers, lay down their lives for them!

[Alexey Sommer]

I hope that now we will no longer hear about shell hunger.

[Silver99]

"There is not a single reasonable person with this star" oh, how bitterly right he is !!! Surovikin and PMC "Wagner" will make a good orchestra for the performance of the composition died Ukraine.

[Neo-9947]

There are five such people in the RF Armed Forces, it seems. And everyone is on Olympus.
And all of them were publicly called "unreasonable".
Um ...
And this is reasonable, on the part of Prigogine? No matter what happens...

[flicker]

And this is reasonable, on the part of Prigogine? No matter what happens..

And he does not need to be reasonable, but he must promote the interests of Western oligarchs.

And our MO (with all its current shortcomings) is forced to solve an extremely difficult task for itself:

The problem is that Wagner PMCs are successfully fighting, and on the other hand, their head Prigozhin promotes the interests of pro-Western oligarchs. And they need to remove Putin and negotiate with the West.

The fact that Wagner fights well (and the guys there fight really well), this not only does not prevent the pro-Western oligarchs from moving towards their goal, but, on the contrary, only helps.

With the successes of Wagner (i.e., the courage of Wagner’s fighters), he hits the Russian Defense Ministry. If you destroy the Russian Defense Ministry (and we have it as it is), then the state of Russia will collapse.

It turns out a paradoxical situation: Wagner is advancing (which is good for the Moscow Region and for Russia) - we need to help him, but Prigozhin, with Wagner’s successes, hits the Moscow Region and, therefore, Russia, i.e. the better Wagner fights, the more dangerous (because of Prigozhin's attacks on the Moscow Region) for Russia.

That is why it is important for us now to slip between Scylla and Charybdis.

On the one hand, the Ministry of Defense needs to help Wagner, and on the other hand, help so that this (due to Prigozhin's media blows) is not dangerous for Russia.
---
So all the problems of Wagner are due to Prigozhin, or rather, due to the fact that Prigozhin promotes the interests of Western oligarchs.

[Alex777]

Quote: flicker

So all the problems of Wagner are due to Prigozhin, or rather, due to the fact that Prigozhin promotes the interests of Western oligarchs.

Announce the list of oligarchs, please!

[flicker]

Announce the list of oligarchs, please!

By oligarchs, I mean not only moneybags, but above all the Russian elite seeking to integrate with the West.
I might be wrong about the names, but Prigozhin's roof could probably be the Rotenberg brothers, maybe the Kovalchuk brothers, and, well, almost all oligarchic Jewry.
I could be wrong, of course, but I have reason to believe so.
Is this answer enough?

[Alex777]

Quote: flicker

I could be wrong, of course, but I have reason to believe so.
Is this answer enough?

Yes. More is not needed.

[flicker]

Did you have to spell out all the names?
But you yourself can do this if you carefully read what is written above the highlighted quote.

[cash]

you need to have a bite to eat ... Prigogine openly vilifies the oligarchs just stop pecking in the eyes

[flicker]

have a bite to eat.

Advise your dad

[cash]

you don't poke me, they didn't drink on brotherhood

[Mixweb]

Sergey Kuzhugetovich, what did you forget at VO?

[V. Salama]

Quote: flicker

... The problem is that Wagner PMCs are successfully fighting, and on the other hand, their head Prigozhin promotes the interests of pro-Western oligarchs. And they need to remove Putin and negotiate with the West.

In fact, we have capitalism in the yard, or rather its extreme stage - state-monopoly capitalism. And the form of power-oligarchy, they rule. I do not rule out that Prigozhin and Putin are oligarchs, I am even sure of this, since there are all possibilities for this. Yes, there are national-bourgeois and there are "pro-Westerners" and there is an eternal squabble between them and among themselves within the clans for power and resources, for the usual way of life. Yes, the West wants to remove Putin, in the tradition of the United States to destroy the guilty ruler.
However, how and on what basis do you conclude that Prigozhin is acting in the interests of "pro-Westerners"? On the sole basis that he criticizes bureaucrats and saboteurs in the Moscow Region? Or on the basis of what ensures victory in the NWO as a reproach to the same bureaucrats who want to enter paradise on the blood of a simple soldier? "Media blows" Prigogine? What are these blows to them - they will wipe off, everything is "God's dew". At least for this it is necessary to beat the muzzle and give it to the court. Read the sources in the original (Prigozhin explained everything clearly) and do not engage in fabrications. If there are any doubts, justify with arguments, confirming what has been said with a thought, and not like this, for example:

... Prigozhin, with the success of Wagner, hits the Moscow Region and, therefore, Russia ...
So all the problems of Wagner are due to Prigozhin, or rather, due to the fact that Prigozhin promotes the interests of Western oligarchs.

[Svetlana Kuznetsova]

We have a good saying: "Eat a fish and (...) don't sit down." So this is just about our oligarchs (and they are not pro-Western, but simply corrupt), and about you.

[Svetlana Kuznetsova]

Most importantly, I forgot to write to my friend "Flicker" on his comment. It's not for you, to mention the name of the hero, and even more so to defame him.

[isv000]

Quote from Silver99

"There is not a single reasonable person with this star" oh, how bitterly right he is !!! Surovikin and PMC "Wagner" will make a good orchestra for the performance of the composition died Ukraine.

Ukraine has not yet died - but we are working on it!

[ROSS_51]

Quote from Silver99

"There is not a single reasonable person with this star" oh, how bitterly right he is !!! Surovikin and PMC "Wagner" will make a good orchestra for the performance of the composition died Ukraine.

Did Prigozhin also take Mariupol and Azovstal?

[TANKISTONE]

Silver99 "There is not a single reasonable person with this star" oh, how bitterly right he is !!!

Why be surprised? Similar "star-headed" people are also sitting "at the headquarters" of the site: the month has not been suitable for the computer, now I can't even rate comments, because "for a long time" (a month) did not comment ... They would have all the rating, for their loved ones, damn the stars. Oh, sorry, vintage gas generators...

[Shurik70]

I hope Prigozhin will no longer have to issue an ultimatum through the media, threatening to leave his position.
And I hope that those suppliers who brought this to this point will be trampled from their positions, depriving them of their ranks.
It is not good to endanger the lives of soldiers and the very existence of the state because of internal squabbles.
And it's not worth putting these squabbles in the media
If the suppliers are not punished, everything will repeat itself.

[krops777]

And I hope that those suppliers who brought this to this will be trampled from their positions, depriving them of their ranks

Hmm, this is too soft from the position, they are guilty of the death of fighters and the strategic slowdown of the war, according to the law, let them be held accountable for the lawlessness.

[Shurik70]

Quote: krops777

judge according to the law let them answer for lawlessness

Only a person with great connections can get a job in such warm places.
Judging now, they will get off with a fine.
You need to wait a little. Without such a position, ties will weaken. At the same time, and investigate their ins and outs to do.
After the SVO, "summing up" it will be possible to imprison for life. For theft on an especially large scale. And they are definitely thieves (honest people would not sacrifice the lives of Russian soldiers for the sake of personal ambitions)

[Starover_Z]

Quote: krops777

And I hope that those suppliers who brought this to this will be trampled from their positions, depriving them of their ranks

Hmm, this is too soft from the position, they are guilty of the death of fighters and the strategic slowdown of the war, according to the law, let them be held accountable for the lawlessness.

All the slowing down supplies and yes to the front line, with 3 rounds!

[isv000]

Quote: krops777

And I hope that those suppliers who brought this to this will be trampled from their positions, depriving them of their ranks

Hmm, this is too soft from the position, they are guilty of the death of fighters and the strategic slowdown of the war, according to the law, let them be held accountable for the lawlessness.

In the penal battalion. Do not give alcohol, do not change underpants, so let them fight ...

[guest]

I totally agree, but you have to be realistic. If the pests are at least removed from their posts, this will already be beneficial.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: krops777

And I hope that those suppliers who brought this to this will be trampled from their positions, depriving them of their ranks

Hmm, this is too soft from the position, they are guilty of the death of fighters and the strategic slowdown of the war, according to the law, let them be held accountable for the lawlessness.

The one who sent them into battle without proper support is to blame for the death of the fighters. No projectiles - transition to active defense until the projectiles appear.

[Igor_Sergeevich]

Deprivation of military rank only by a court verdict for a grave or especially grave crime. So far, such decisions have not been observed even in the future.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: Shurik70

And I hope that those suppliers who brought this to this point will be trampled from their positions, depriving them of their ranks.

Quote: Shurik70

If the suppliers are not punished, everything will repeat itself.

The bitch won't want to, the male won't jump up. Obviously, there is someone who gave the order to these suppliers to slow down to the Wagners. In the army, without an order, a fly does not fly ... Preferably a written order.

[flicker]

who gave the order to these suppliers to slow down to the Wagners. In the army without an order, a fly does not fly

About the possible causes of "shell hunger" link below

https://sun9-12.userapi.com/impg/qf4ysbpG5f_T_liJ2-eMyqAhsTVGQVtE5Dy_mA/79EhpJuiZKg.jpg?size=545x611&quality=96&sign=9e753c96289ca83fe081e607b7a8b790&c_uniq_tag=TXF3Nb63fG-WcsrBetg1_0VVs5TrBiTvF0BxVWTQdM4&type=album

[Alf]

Quote: Shurik70

those suppliers who brought to this

Are the providers to blame? Not funny. Supply clerks give out according to the invoice, but for some reason there are no questions to those who tell them not to give out, referring to a hundred reasons ...

[V. Salama]

Quote: Shurik70

I hope Prigozhin will no longer have to issue an ultimatum through the media, threatening to leave his position.

We all hope, but he got the desired result in the only effective and legal way. Not every one of us can use such a tool as the media. I personally cannot blame him for this.

And I hope that those suppliers who brought this to this point will be trampled from their positions, depriving them of their ranks.

Weak hope. Yes, in fact, the suppliers are not to blame here. This is a political matter, we goyim do not understand.

It is not good to endanger the lives of soldiers and the very existence of the state because of internal squabbles.

Worthless then it is worthless, but history teaches that this was almost always the case with us, Stalin only kept his finger on the pulse well.

And it's not worth putting these squabbles in the media
If the suppliers are not punished, everything will repeat itself.

And what kind of squabbles are there - this is sabotage that threatens the survival of the country. We kind of pretend that we live in a civil society and should be aware of the problems of the country. We didn’t like Stalin, because under him we were protected from this shit, and now what - the guilty must be punished, and if you don’t show it in the media, then everything will really happen again.

[dmi.pris1]

In addition to ammunition, people are also needed in the assault units. The losses of the Wagnerites are large, it is necessary to replenish

[Alex777]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

The losses of the Wagnerites are large, it is necessary to replenish

Prigozhin is a good organizer. And people work for him.
The rejection of the ZK is due to the fact that the replenishment was arranged differently.

[Alf]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

need to replenish

Today in Samara I saw a billboard on Aurora with an advertisement for Wagner indicating the address of the office on the 6th clearing. Prigogine does the right thing.

[Last centurion]

I think if Wagner alone advances, then all this will not advance far. It is clear that now there are few ideological ones, well then it should be like this - a unit that has taken a city of a million people receives a bonus of one million rubles per fighter each, a district center - half a million, a village or village 100 thousand. If they piss and run, they get -30%. If a general or headquarters loses half of the composition of the people, then a year remains without a bonus, if 30%, then without a semi-annual. Somehow it should work in the period of capitalism. And so that everyone gets the same, and not more staff, others less. That's when everyone starts running, fussing, they begin to personally visit the front line and become interested in the result, and not in the process.

[Alex777]

Quote: Last centurion

It is clear that now there are few ideological ones, well then it should be like this - a unit that has taken a city of a million people receives a bonus of a million rubles per fighter each, a district center - half a million, a village or village 100 thousand

So it doesn't work. An example is PMC Gazprom.
ZP 400 tyr., And they ran at the first nix.
Decisions are made quite differently in
Orchestra. Not like in the army. From this different
result. And their supply is outstanding.
Artillery, tanks, aviation - they all have their own.
No one else has the same opportunity
no such freedom in decision-making.

[Hariton laptev]

Oh how we hear! the same principle put in a candle ran ran as soon as the presence of a candle stopped checking and there was no need to run. I bought the principle of law, but I didn’t buy it to ride in everything, including in the army.

[Sergiy_OSV]

Quote: Fantazer911

Looks like some in the Moscow Region got the video, they scratched their turnips and decided to supply the guys with everything necessary, there really is no Stalin and Beria in our power, the mess is treated according to the laws of wartime!

Looks like one thing is clear here - they are slowly pushing through the fifth column in power. And the experience of Joseph Vissarionovich will not be swept aside. Vladimir Putin knows history well.

[couch]

they didn’t scratch their turnips there, but their asses, which they apparently walked with a belt

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from sofa

they didn’t scratch their turnips there, but their asses, which they apparently walked with a belt

We walked a little ... We had to pull out our legs.

[sergey32]

Quote: 30 vis

Quote from sofa

they didn’t scratch their turnips there, but their asses, which they apparently walked with a belt

We walked a little ... We had to pull out our legs.

Long-term negative personnel selection is negative selection in all its glory. There are hundreds of generals, and there is no one to complete the task, one Surovikin in the role of a fireman. Those capable of leading troops who should have made a brilliant career were out of work. Now mamo, scho mamo. A disgrace, during the war they reached public showdowns at the top.

[Vita vko]

Quote: sergey32

There are hundreds of generals, but there is no one to complete the task

There are two wonderful stands in the hall of the Academy of East Kazakhstan named after G.K. Zhukov. The first stand of those who graduated from the Academy with a gold medal. The second stand is the generals graduates of the Academy. And the most interesting thing is that not a single surname matches. But this educational institution is almost 80 years old.
Therefore, the personnel problem in the Russian army is not just systemic, but historical. And unfortunately, only a long-term military conflict of the NWO type contributes to the improvement of the personnel system, and the economy as a whole.

[alystan]

Most likely they just introduced "this belt" and this alone "brought them to their senses" a little and made them start doing their job. Only for how long?

And the scale of sabotage and terrorist attacks seems to be expanding throughout the country ...

And after the "belt" we would certainly have heard about new personnel decisions in the Moscow Region.

[isv000]

Quote from sofa

they didn’t scratch their turnips there, but their asses, which they apparently walked with a belt

You don't have to go through these asses with a belt ... But this is not our method!

[hector]

Quote: isv000

You don't have to go through these asses with a belt ... But this is not our method!

Better than barbed wire.

[svp67]

Quote: Fantazer911

and decided nevertheless to supply the guys with everything necessary

If only not to the detriment of the other guys who are fighting there now ...

Prigozhin: Defense Ministry allocates Wagner PMC the amount of ammunition and weapons necessary to continue the offensive

Finally, this "circus with horses has stopped." Although I think that this is a "temporary truce"

In addition, the Ministry of Defense appointed a person responsible for the interaction between the military and PMCs, this will be handled by Sergei Surovikin, who is very respected in the "Orchestra" and under whom there was no talk of any "shell hunger".

They even assigned a separate intermediary ... It's just interesting how the Commander of the Aerospace Forces will resolve the issues of "shell hunger" in the future. Allocate air bombs to the "musicians", perhaps instead of artillery shots?

[Machito]

We saw privates arrested for all sorts of garbage, but we didn’t see generals arrested. The general is always infallible, even if he is wrong, especially when he has real estate in the West.

[svp67]

Quote: Bearded

but the arrested generals - no.

Well look ...

Khalil Arslanov - Colonel General, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
And he's far from the only one.

[tchack]

It's a tricky business there. The main witness in the case eventually admitted that he had slandered the general, allegedly under pressure from the FSB.

[Alex777]

It's not a tricky thing at all. But his boss excuses the scoundrel on the topic: the solution is unique, the cost is unique, so no harm was done to the state.

[Alf]

Quote: tchack

The main witness in the case eventually admitted that he had slandered the general, allegedly under pressure from the FSB.

Began to work Excuses of their own.

[Alex777]

"The one everyone knows" has already ruined the case.
The essence of the matter is simple: what should have cost 20 tyr., Bought at 278 tyr. Therefore, there is no secure communication in the RF Armed Forces. And the Orchestra has it!

[Alf]

Quote: svp67

Well look ...

That they delayed it is good, but something is not heard about the timing.

[isv000]

Quote: Bearded

We saw privates arrested for all sorts of garbage, but we didn’t see generals arrested. The general is always infallible, even if he is wrong, especially when he has real estate in the West.

They also give vacations to others for their art near Ugledar ...

[Egoza]

Hello Sergey!

Finally, this "circus with horses has stopped." Although I think that this is a "temporary truce"

I really hope this is not a temporary truce. So to disgrace, one might say specifically Shoigu and Gerasimov, to the whole world is worth a lot. So while the NWO is going on, Prigozhin will not be allowed to complain again. But what will happen after the end of the NWO ... let's wait and see. But they won't forget.

[svp67]

Madam

Quote: Egoza

But they won't forget.

There the conflict has much older roots and they grow from Syria. do not forget that PMC is a PRIVATE company and to be honest, it has SIGNIFICANT financial resources that it managed to "squeeze out" in the same Africa. If desired, the same Prigozhin could well sponsor the establishment of the production of the same artillery shells, at one of the Russian enterprises with the appropriate capabilities. And not have any problems with the supply. But, it’s necessary to spend money, it’s easier to “sit on the neck of the MO” and demand this ammunition from it for FREE, and even put “your people” in the highest positions ...
To be honest, this is the reality of our long-suffering Motherland and one should not think that this is characteristic only of modern Russia.
If anyone is interested, let them familiarize themselves with the question of why the most advanced and best submachine gun of the Second World War, designed by Sudaev, was not produced in the USSR by enterprises of the Ministry of Armaments, under the leadership of D.F. Ustinov, and at the facilities of the People's Commissariat of Mortar Weapons of the USSR, under the leadership of P. I. Parshin
"... Russia DOES NOT UNDERSTAND with the mind, cannot be measured with a common yardstick ... you can only BELIEVE in Russia ..."

[Alf]

Quote: svp67

the most advanced and best submachine gun of the Second World War, designed by Sudayev,

Why do you think PPP is the best? For me, a PPSh with a sector store was best suited for an infantryman.

Quote: svp67

was not produced by enterprises of the Ministry of Armaments, under the leadership of D.F. Ustinov, and at the facilities of the People's Commissariat of Mortar Weapons

Where there were free capacities, they released them there.

[svp67]

Quote: Alf

Why do you think PPP is the best?

This is not my opinion, this is the opinion of experts. PPP is more technological and ergonomic.

Quote: Alf

For me, a PPSh with a sector store was best suited for an infantryman.

In a way, yes, he is better, it is easier to fight with him in hand-to-hand combat.
But, even the PPS sector store is more convenient to use, it is easier to equip it and it gives fewer failures.

Left shop PPSh, right - PPS
In addition, the light weight of the PPS, in comparison with the PPSh, makes it possible to take more of the same ammunition.

Quote: Alf

Where there were free capacities, they released them there.

Alas, no. The People's Commissariat of mortar armaments was loaded beyond measure, not only with the release of mortars of the usual scheme of caliber 82, 120 and 180 mm, but also with the release of "Guards mortars" and take on the load of another ministry ... Forgive me, not to fat, I would live. ..
How Parshin was persuaded, I do not know. but he did a good deed.

[Konnick]

In a way, yes, he is better, it is easier to fight with him in hand-to-hand combat.
But, even the PPS sector store is more convenient to use, it is easier to equip it and it gives fewer failures. in addition, the light weight of the PPS, in comparison with the PPSh, makes it possible to take more of the same ammunition.

It's a pity that you can't ask these scouts with the signs "Excellent Scout". They could choose weapons, photo taken in Berlin. Pay attention to medals on small blocks. And the stories on the Internet are from the evil one, but feature films are artistic for that.

Where did these myths about teaching staff and sector stores come from. Those fighters who exactly participated in the battles chose PPSh with a disk.

[svp67]

Quote: Konnick

They could choose weapons, photo taken in Berlin.

Alas, not always...

Quote: Konnick

Pay attention to medals on small blocks.

Of course...

I think it’s not worth explaining what kind of orders a soldier has and their rank
Here are the scouts...

The reconnaissance commander, Lieutenant Sokolovsky, he certainly could have chosen

And these are the partisans of the detachment of Jan Zizka

[Alf]

Quote: svp67

this is the opinion of experts

You don't consider the option that experts are also mistaken?

Quote: svp67

In a way, yes, he is better, it is easier to fight with him in hand-to-hand combat.

What is much more important for an ordinary infantryman.

Quote: svp67

light weight PPS

For 500 grams..
And then, if the teaching staff was better, why did they release PPSh before the end of the war?
By the way, it was precisely because of the presence of the butt that the accuracy of the PPSh was higher.

[svp67]

Quote: Alf

You don't consider the option that experts are also mistaken?

It's definitely not here.

Quote: Alf

What is much more important for an ordinary infantryman.

It is better for an ordinary soldier to have an automatic rifle or an automatic carbine than a PP

Quote: Alf

For 500 grams..

Cartridge weight 7,62x25 TT - 10,74 gr ..., that is, you can additionally take 46 rounds in bulk ...

Quote: Alf

And then, if the teaching staff was better, why did they release PPSh before the end of the war?

Well-established production. Comrade Ustinov did not want to change anything. Exactly the same as with the T-34 ... it was released until the end of the war, because production was established

Quote: Alf

By the way, it was precisely because of the presence of the butt that the accuracy of the PPSh was higher.

Here he knowingly throws the PP and waits for a shot. The PPSh had such a drawback, it fired when it fell, in a burst, until the store was completely shot. PPP is deprived of this shortcoming

[Alf]

Quote: svp67

It is better for an ordinary soldier to have an automatic rifle or an automatic carbine than a PP

So why didn’t anyone create them in WW2?
And in the future, the folding stock was used only in weapons for the Airborne Forces, tankers, who are either rarely used (like tankers, signalmen, pilots) or for whom every gram is important, even to the detriment of efficiency. And with a normal butt, the PPS would weigh like a PPSh.

[svp67]

Quote: Alf

So why didn’t anyone create them in WW2?

But why? Self-loading rifles were ours
SVT-(38)40

German:
- Walter G-41

American:
- Mauser G-43

American;
-- M-1 Garand

- M1 Carbine

Automatic:
Our
- ABC-36

- AVT-40

German
- FG-42

- StG 44 (assault rifle, although in fact an automatic carbine)

[Alf]

The AVT-shka went down quickly, but the SG-44 is considered an automatic rifle because of the intermediate cartridge somehow ... not serious.

[svp67]

Quote: Alf

And in the future, the folding stock was used only in weapons for the Airborne Forces, tankers, who are either rarely used (like tankers, signalmen, pilots) or for whom every gram is important, even to the detriment of efficiency.

Wrong ... AK-74M is the standard weapon of the Russian infantryman

Like his "son" - AK-103 and "granddaughters" - AK-12

Quote: Alf

And with a normal butt, the PPS would weigh like a PPSh.

Yes, there were such versions as our experienced 1945

So is the serial, produced in Poland Modell 43/52

So let's compare the latter with PPSh, which has a weight (without cartridges, kg): 3,6 kg
And for PPS-43 with a wooden butt (Modell 43/52) - 3,4 kg ... 200 grams less

[Alf]

As far as I know, the AK-74M with a buttstock is not a line infantry weapon, Airborne Forces, SPN, yes.
Shortening weapon of an ordinary infantryman ?? Oh well...

[V. Salama]

You clung to an empty place. According to the totality of indicators, including manufacturability, and this is how experts evaluate: - PPP - the best. But when it comes to users, this is a matter of user preferences - a specific military specialist in situations conceivable by him. That is, by and large, this is a matter of taste, and there is no arguing about tastes. The SS troops preferred the PPSh with a disk magazine, well, they know better, which means they see advantages in it for their purposes. Surely our PPSh was also preferred. Here and habit plays a role and combat experience.

[Alf]

Quote: V. Salama

You clung to an empty place.

Nobody clung. It is interesting to talk with an intelligent opponent, and not with another carbine. If I don't know something, I'm not afraid to admit it.

[V. Salama]

Quote: Alf

Nobody clung.

I realized that I did not understand something, but the topic is interesting, I apologize for butting in.

If I don't know something, I'm not afraid to admit it.

I don’t know much already, from the position of pedagogy, if you don’t remember, therefore you don’t know, and in some areas it becomes irrelevant to restore knowledge lost over time in memory. But, when I was interested in the history of the creation of submachine guns, I remember an interesting moment that already at the PPS launched into production, I don’t remember for what reasons, the barrel was shortened by a couple of centimeters, which sharply worsened its accuracy. Perhaps this is false knowledge - the Internet is not a textbook, but as a supporter of the PCA, I think it will be interesting for you (if you have the time and desire, of course) to check the reliability of this fact and find out its reason.

[Alf]

Quote: V. Salama

I'm sorry I got stuck.

Chief, there is no market. This forum is so good that everyone can exchange opinions. And this is welcome.

Quote: V. Salama

but as a supporter of the PPSh, I think it will be interesting for you (if you have the time and desire) to check the reliability of this fact and find out its reason.

Interesting, I didn't know. I'll look, I'll find out, I'll unsubscribe.

[V. Salama]

Quote: Alf

... I will look, find out, unsubscribe.

Somehow it turned out inconveniently, I hung the task on a friend, and my unfinished thought haunts me - we have not learned to understand what the best weapon is, which our soldiers received from the designers and the state during the Second World War and preceding them. Me and unsubscribe. What can I offer: a mixture of compilations of Internet articles and my not very good memory. So those who want to criticize or just downvote will be able to get full pleasure.
I am not a master of analogy, but I will try: imagine that there is a very sharp and durable sword, but the state is not able to satisfy the needs of the troops in this weapon due to its high cost and complexity in production. That is, it is not for everyone, and from the standpoint of the theory of efficiency, it simply does not exist. This problem can be solved by creating a cheaper and simpler sword that will definitely outlive the fighter in more than one battle, and its combat characteristics with the talent of the designers will be quite acceptable and correspond to the user in terms of lack of redundancy in quality. Since the sword is forged according to the hand, it is possible to produce two types of simple and cheap swords in parallel, such as PPSh and PPS weapons. For other types of weapons, other principles can be applied, such as the T-34 tank, which had (according to authoritative Western scientists) a simply inexhaustible modernization resource. Simply put, if we simply followed the path of increasing the combat characteristics of weapons, then we would not have won the war, but at a certain stage our military-industrial complex stepped on this rake. At one time there was an article on VO, where A. Wasserman warned about this.
In order to understand how the weapons of Victory were forged in the design bureaus (with respect to submachine guns), let's briefly plunge into history, although in reality everything was even cooler.
In 1942, a competition was announced for a lighter, more compact and cheaper submachine gun to manufacture, but not inferior in performance to the Shpagin submachine gun.
The PPSh did not suit the military for the following reasons: the PPSh drum magazine was more expensive than the carob store in production - this is the first reason why it was abandoned, and not because of the inconvenience of loading or something else. Therefore, on February 17, 1942, by a decree of the State Defense Committee for PPSh, a carob magazine for 35 rounds was adopted.
The competition for a new "machine" was not spelled out, but it was unofficially discussed in advance that the bed of the future "machine" should not be wooden. Non-specialized enterprises, to which the production of PPSh was transferred, turned out to be unable to produce a wooden stock, steel stamping was easier. The same enterprises that were located in Central Asia did not have sources of wood at all. The victory in the competition was won by the weapon of A.I. Sudayev. At the end of 1942, the submachine gun was put into service under the name PPS-42. The produced PPS immediately got to the front, thanks to which it was possible to quickly take into account and eliminate the shortcomings identified during operation.

[Alf]

Quote: V. Salama

Somehow it turned out inconveniently, I hung the task on a friend,

Come on ... It became interesting to me.

Quote: V. Salama

the T-34 tank, which had (according to authoritative Western scientists) a simply inexhaustible modernization resource.

You are wrong, it was on the T-34-85 that the mod resource ended. It became impossible to increase the thickness of the armor, especially the front, and it became impossible to shove a larger caliber gun into the existing turret. And it is because of the candle suspension. The next T-44 tank, due to the torsion bar suspension, a transversely mounted engine and, accordingly, shifted to the center of the turret body, was a new machine.
And about "not bad, massively and cheaply against excellent, but expensively and individually" you are absolutely right, because no one has yet been able to cancel the formula "quantity beats quality".

[V. Salama]

Quote: Alf

You are wrong, it was on the T-34-85 that the mod resource ended.

Perhaps so, the war is over, everyone has drawn conclusions, the conditions have changed. But this resource was enough for the war, unlike the Germans, and this was the main enemy in the hot war.

[V. Salama]

Yes, I had to familiarize myself with the new rules for VO - I can’t insert photos and videos -

the material contains tags that are not allowed for publication

Okay, I'll do without visual material:
So maybe it should have been put on the PPSh and an iron butt as a modernization and the creation of a teaching staff would not have been needed at all? However, such an approach in the butt did not solve another important problem of the PPSh - an excessively high rate of fire (a rate of fire of up to 500 rounds per minute was recommended (but none of the developers (competitors) fit into this norm. This requirement was determined not by an increase in the accuracy of fire, but by the fact that cartridge production and quartermasters simply did not have time to supply the army with pistol cartridges.
And already with the advent of the experimental PPS-42 and PPSh-2, a new stage of disputes began. In terms of manufacturability, the PPSh-2 was superior to the PPS-42, but the latter in terms of combat qualities (higher accuracy) and in its reliability still surpassed the experimental Shpaginsky sample. However, already in 1943, an improved design called PPS-43 was adopted (the barrel and buttstock were shortened, the cocking handle, the fuse box and the shoulder rest latch were changed, the barrel shroud and receiver were combined into one piece). According to the totality of quality indicators, and this is how expert assessments are made, it was really the best submachine gun of the Second World War.

However, here it is necessary to make a digression, the advantage that the PPS-42 had over the PPSh-1 in the accuracy of fire came to naught when the barrel was shortened by 43 centimeters in the PPS-2 in order to reduce the rate of fire (lower pressure in the bore - lower the speed of withdrawal of moving parts), which also allowed to reduce the mass of the shutter, EMNIP by 15 grams.

The bullet retained lethality up to 800 m.
At the same time, most of the front-line soldiers preferred the PPSh-1 with a drum (disk) magazine precisely because of such qualities as firepower, which is based on a high rate of fire and a large capacity of the disk magazine, as well as a heavy free shutter in full compliance with the weight and length barrel of the weapon. PPSh-1, nicknamed "Trench broom" - the bullet of which retained lethality up to 1500 m.
Following this logic, our soldiers should be armed with an MG-34 machine gun with a 50-round belt in a round box or with a drum-type magazine for 75 rounds and a double-sided cartridge feeder. This machine gun gave even more firepower¸ allowing you to fire from your hands, with or without a belt.
If you believe the footage of the enemy chronicle, then the German assault group, having three machine gunners in its composition, simply mowed down ours in the conditions of the forest belt, since it was simply impossible to resist this flurry of fire. And where are these machine guns at the end of the war, how many of them are left, how much did they cost to produce (327 Reichsmarks, which was not cheap at that time), how did they work in conditions of pollution? They do not pull on the best weapons, and the MG-42, although it looks like one of the assault rifles, in its pure form no longer allowed such use.
Perhaps I'm not very convincing, but for me the best confirmation that the teaching staff is the best is that the Finns realized that ours created something worthwhile and copied our design.
Finland - having studied the PPS device, began production at the Tikkakoski plant in 1944 - under the name M / 44. The model was adapted for Luger / Parabellum cartridges, 9x19, the second name of the product is Suomi. 10 units were produced. In 400-1957, they armed UN peacekeepers in the Sinai Peninsula. This submachine gun was adopted by the Wehrmacht, after the war it was launched in Poland, North Korea and China. A slightly modified copy of the PPS-58 was in service with the police and border guards in West Germany.

[Alf]

Quote: V. Salama

So maybe

I absolutely agree.
P.S. The photo is inserted without problems, I posted the pictures myself today.

[V. Salama]

Quote: Alf

The photo is inserted without problems

I had a break at VO, I didn’t study the new rules, maybe I’m violating these rules or someone’s copyright. What I wanted to offer was simply copied to a laptop from various resources, I transferred what I needed to the "Desktop" and, it didn't work. I'll figure it out myself, later, my fault

[Alf]

Quote: V. Salama

someone's copyright

Don't make me laugh..

Quote: V. Salama

my fault

Spit and never mind.
P.S. By the way, the rules haven't changed.

[V. Salama]

Well, the "counterattack" has begun. Will have to take a break for a few days. I will not say anything on this topic yet, I wish us good luck and Victory.

[Alf]

Quote: V. Salama

Well, the "counterattack" has begun. Will have to take a break for a few days.

What is the connection?

[V. Salama]

Quote: Alf

What is the connection?

Due to the importance (in my opinion) of the moment, I had to urgently switch to assessing the situation based on information from other resources. After I plunged into all this, starting with the information of the military correspondents and ending with what Prigozhin gives out, all desire to discuss the NWO at VO disappeared. I can subscribe ten times to each of my posts with my socio-political assessment of the situation, but I see no point in writing anything more. Moreover, the VO is densely populated with TsIPSO workers, if not worse, judging by the sophisticated cyberbullying. Who and why could give you a minus for your last post? Perhaps, in someone's opinion, I am overly suspicious, but I'm not only guided by the minuses in my assessments. I'm sorry I didn't reply to your post earlier, but my profile didn't show your answer, maybe I didn't set something up properly, or is this also a new rule?(...at first I was banned from voting).

[Xenofont]

Colonel Kassad has Prigozhin's penultimate statement about the conflict. About the reasons here:
II. Why did “shell hunger” arise?

9. Against the backdrop of the promotion of PMC "Wagner", which occupied 1500 sq. km and 71 settlements, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation suffered setbacks: defeats on the fronts, lack of control, scandals with mobilization, problems with supplies, discipline, and so on.

10. To compensate for their failures, due to envy, when trying to intrigue, the Ministry of Defense decided to start countering the Wagner PMC:

- the recruitment of volunteers among prisoners was prohibited;

- the supply of weapons has been stopped;

- reduced the supply of ammunition to 30% of applications (from May 2023 - up to 10%).

11. The Department of Defense created other problems:

- the issuance of well-deserved orders and medals to the dead has ceased;

- PMC "Wagner" was denied the possibility of air flights for the transfer of personnel from Africa to the NVO zone;

- persons from the Ministry of Defense interacting with PMC "Wagner" were forbidden to communicate with units of PMC "Wagner";

– special connection is disabled;

- Aircraft for the operational transfer of ammunition were denied.

12. Despite the opposition of the Ministry of Defense, Wagner PMC continued to successfully conduct military operations.

13. In order to ensure a complete "shell blockade", which does not consist in an artificial shortage of shells, but in a complete cessation of supplies, Colonel General Mikhail Mizintsev was fired.

14. PMC "Wagner" has the opportunity to acquire shells in other ways, not from the stocks of the Russian army. However, PMC Wagner, together with foreign partners, was refused assistance in facilitating its own supplies and production of ammunition.
Full text of the appeal: https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/8338829.html

[svp67]

I read and heard all sorts of nonsense and "offenses", but here it is already prohibitive ...

Quote: Xenofont

- the recruitment of volunteers among prisoners was prohibited;

How can the MO forbid it? Concluded in the statements of other ministries and structures.

Quote: Xenofont

- the supply of weapons has been stopped;

Quote: Xenofont

- reduced the supply of ammunition to 30% of applications (from May 2023 - up to 10%).

And how was this issue in MO itself? Someone believes that at that moment it itself was supplied by 100%....

Quote: Xenofont

- the issuance of well-deserved orders and medals to the dead has ceased;

The Ministry of Defense has an indirect relation to the issuance of STATE awards, it, like others, REQUESTS to award its military personnel by submitting award lists to the Presidential Administration

Quote: Xenofont

- PMC "Wagner" was denied the possibility of air flights for the transfer of personnel from Africa to the NVO zone;

Forgive me, but now there is no permission for our military aircraft to fly straight from Africa to Russia ... And in the NVO zone, in general, only combat aircraft fly

Quote: Xenofont

In order to ensure a complete "shell blockade", which does not consist in an artificial shortage of shells, but in a complete cessation of supplies, Colonel General Mikhail Mizintsev was fired.

There, the reasons are completely different and they will be announced, in 10 years after the end of the SVO ...

Quote: Xenofont

However, PMC Wagner, together with foreign partners, was refused assistance in facilitating its own supplies and production of ammunition.

These questions, again, are not the prerogative of the RF Ministry of Defense, but completely different ministries and departments.

[Argon]

And here is the meaning of Prigogine's video message! Many here scolded him that it was not necessary so, for all to see. How was he supposed to get through? And Kadyrov came to the rescue after all! He said that he would replace Wagner if the generals finally got itchy here, "but they really can do that."

[Machito]

Quote: Argon

And here is the meaning of Prigogine's video message! Many here scolded him that it was not necessary so, for all to see. How was he supposed to get through? And Kadyrov came to the rescue after all! He said that he would replace Wagner if the generals finally got itchy here, "but they really can do that."

Remembering the successes of General Pavlov in 1941, it has long been necessary to put the heels of the generals against the wall. Purely for prevention and responsibility for the decisions made.

[Argon]

Only with the "confiscation of property" and "with the deprivation of all awards" is like death for them.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Bearded

Remembering the successes of General Pavlov in 1941, it has long been necessary to put the heels of the generals against the wall. Purely for prevention and responsibility for the decisions made.

... or repeat year 37 for some of the MOs?

[werwolf1981]

Agree!!! The mess is full in mo !!!!!

[flicker]

Looks like some in the Moscow Region got the video, they scratched their turnips

Looks like Utkin and Troshev threatened Prigozhin with a "sledgehammer", the cook understood everything and quickly retreated.
---
Below is a link to a screen where the procedure for delivering shells is explained in a very accessible way:
https://sun9-12.userapi.com/impg/qf4ysbpG5f_T_liJ2-eMyqAhsTVGQVtE5Dy_mA/79EhpJuiZKg.jpg?size=545x611&quality=96&sign=9e753c96289ca83fe081e607b7a8b790&c_uniq_tag=TXF3Nb63fG-WcsrBetg1_0VVs5TrBiTvF0BxVWTQdM4&type=album
---
In short, the number of shells allocated to Wagner was agreed in advance with Prigogine.
And it has been fully implemented, and the supply of additional shells has logistical difficulties: it is necessary to change the train schedule, and this cannot be changed in a couple of days.
---

[flicker]

By the way, about the cons

"Prigozhinsky trolls", "Olginsky trolls") - a Russian structure headquartered in St. Petersburg, engaged in disinformation, the formation of public opinion, in particular by discrediting the Russian opposition. The agency uses fake accounts in major social networks and online publications, on forums and in video hosting sites to promote the interests of the customer

Judging by the minuses, Prigozhin's trolls (they are also patriots of Israel) have become more active.
Hutspa flooded yes

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: flicker

Below is a link to a screen where the procedure for delivering shells is explained in a very accessible way:

Firstly, who is "Valery Kiselyov" and why should his opinion mean something in public terms? If he really fought in Barsy, well done, but I don’t understand where his opinion comes from .... a person read Prigogine’s post and decided to dash off the text, well, we write exactly the same comments here.

Further: "Looks like Utkin and Troshev threatened Prigozhin with a "sledgehammer"" your fantasy works well :) ... although a public outcry is more likely here, and a stick from the president - the Moscow Region and individuals in particular .... I don’t know, forcedly (because public opinion is a powerful thing, ratings/public anger, etc. work well) or voluntarily, history is silent here.

But in any case, it’s good that at least there was some kind of reaction .... before a major public outcry, they didn’t even want to move, how many months has Prigogine been writing about problems with shells? And at least once in the Moscow Region or in other state structures they asked what the problems were and how to solve them .... but in the end they chose the wrong strategy, the Moscow Region became deaf and blind, other state. structures (from supervisory authorities to the State Duma) pretended that it was none of their business, and in general everything is fine with us .... and then once and all of Russia learned about the skills of "management" in our country.

As for pros/cons, it's all subjective.

[flicker]

Firstly, who is "Valery Kiselev" and why should his opinion matter?

Attention should not be paid to the surname, but to what he said, in particular
"3 ... the number of shells was calculated and agreed with them, long before;
4 Additional shells are not a problem, the problem is their delivery from the place of production or storage to Mr. Prigozhin. Additional railway trains are not found in three days, plus the rewriting of the railway schedule."

On it that it is possible to object, procedure that is correctly painted?
In addition, everyone who fought (again, everyone who fought) said that there were always not enough shells.
But that's why they don't raise a universal howl.
----

"Looks like Utkin and Troshev threatened Prigozhin with a sledgehammer," your fantasy works well :)

As for the "sledgehammer" - yes.
But the point is not in the sledgehammer, but in Prigozhin's jumping statements, or rather, in Prigozhin's personality and the role he plays in this matter.
---

And at least once in the Moscow Region or in other state structures they asked what the problems were and how to solve them .... but in the end they chose the wrong strategy, the Moscow Region became deaf and blind,

MO (with all its current shortcomings) is forced to solve an extremely difficult task for itself:

The problem is that Prigozhin is promoting the position of pro-Western oligarchs. He needs to remove Putin and negotiate with the West.

The fact that Wagner fights well (and the guys there fight really well), this not only does not prevent the pro-Western oligarchs from moving towards their goal, but, on the contrary, only helps.

With the successes of Wagner (i.e., the courage of Wagner’s fighters), he hits the Russian Defense Ministry. If you destroy the Russian Defense Ministry (and we have it as it is), then the state of Russia will collapse.

It turns out a paradoxical situation: Wagner is advancing (which is good for the Moscow Region and for Russia) - we need to help him, but Prigozhin, with Wagner’s successes, hits the Moscow Region and, therefore, Russia, i.e. the better Wagner fights, the more dangerous (because of Prigozhin's attacks on the Moscow Region) for Russia.

That is why it is important for us now to slip between Scylla and Charybdis.

On the one hand, the Ministry of Defense needs to help Wagner, and on the other hand, help so that this (due to Prigozhin’s media strikes) is not dangerous for Russia.
---
All Wagner's problems are due to Prigozhin, more precisely, due to the fact that behind Prigozhin are the interests of Western oligarchs.

If you want, you can dispute this, but the main thing is to remember that there is such a danger.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: flicker

"3 ... the number of shells was calculated and agreed with them, long before;
4 Additional shells are not a problem, the problem is their delivery from the place of production or storage to Mr. Prigozhin. Additional railway trains are not found in three days, plus the rewriting of the railway schedule."

And how does he know such details? If a person served in the PMC Wagner and was responsible for supply, or in the Moscow Region he worked on this issue and knows all the agreements between Prigozhin and the Moscow Region, then yes, such information would be interesting ... otherwise the usual reasoning, a person who thinks and assumes .. .

On the one hand, we have statements by Prigozhin and his people responsible for this direction that 30% of ammunition was allocated, then it was reduced to 10% and after (from May 1, ammunition stopped coming in general) .... I can certainly assume that in the first months (when Surovikin was the commander of the NWO), the Wagnerites received all 100% of the supply (and so it was ... judging by the statements), but after that there are big doubts, because. We know the position of PMC Wagner, but the Moscow Region prefers to remain silent.

Everything else is speculation and speculation....

Quote: flicker

The problem is that Prigozhin is promoting the position of pro-Western oligarchs. He needs to remove Putin and negotiate with the West.

The fact that Wagner fights well (and the guys there fight really well), this not only does not prevent the pro-Western oligarchs from moving towards their goal, but, on the contrary, only helps.

Why such assumptions? Prigozhin is one of the few rich people who spends his capital (no matter how it is earned) to support our fighters and be in the hottest spot on the planet ... take good aim at Bakhmut once, or they will hit well and there is no Prigozhin.

And he could buy a football club / yacht or go abroad and from there pour mud on Russia and disown everything connected with Russia, but he chose the other side ... and it is a pity that there are few such oligarchs in our country.

But who is pro-Western with us .... these are the gentlemen who pump resources - they sell them over the hill, and with this money they build palaces / villas for themselves, buy expensive real estate abroad and just enjoy life ...

How is Prigozhin doing in the video "... you relax in expensive clubs, your children are tired of life, etc. ..." this is about these gentlemen.

[flicker]

And how does he know such details?

The procedure is the same.
The application is submitted for a month, last time (in February) it was said that PMC Wagner received as many shells as the application was submitted.
In addition, train schedules, now and so many passenger trains reduce parking to a minimum.
Once again, delivering additional shells is not so easy and fast.

Why such assumptions? Prigozhin is one of the few rich people who spends his capital (no matter how it is earned) to support our fighters and be in the hottest spot on the planet

What matters is how it's earned.
Have you read his biography?
Restaurant takeoff is simply amazing. A network of elite restaurants visited by Putin and Bush.
So you can rise after the zone only with the help of someone very (once again, very) influential.
Since someone helped so much, it means that he is dependent on him. In real life it is. I don't believe in fairy tales.
And the promotion of "Putin's cook" (although Putin said that all his cooks are employees of the FSO) is worth something.
Very cool people cannot afford to create a PMC. And here such luck at the cook.
---
Is it possible to assume that rich and influential JEWRY helped Prigogine?
I think quite well, Jews always help their own, especially Prigozhin is a man of indefatigable energy.
And if so, how can he refuse them anything?
---

spends his capital

Directly yours. Can you calculate how much one Wagner fighter costs per month?
This is a lot of money and Prigogine simply does not have such.
There are none and he pays everything. Can anyone help?
Do we have many oligarchs patrons?
---
All this money spent should be more than paid off. What can pay for such expenses?
Only the collapse of Russia.
Everything can be given for the collapse of Russia.
---

And he could buy a football club / yacht or go abroad and from there pour mud on Russia and disown everything connected with Russia

Of course he could.
Only he served almost 10 years and can do without these yachts, but the desire for revenge could well be preserved.

But who is pro-Western with us .... these are the gentlemen who pump resources - they sell them over the hill, and with this money they build palaces / villas for themselves, buy expensive real estate abroad and just enjoy life.

If only they, it would not be so difficult.
In my opinion, people there are different, they are strongly built into the functional structure of the state. To remove them would disrupt the normal functioning of important and promising industries.
The best option is if they accept the new Russian reality and abandon the pro-Western course.
Hope for this, though scanty, but there is.
But no, it means the state will be forced to stop them.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: flicker

Looks like Utkin and Troshev threatened Prigozhin with a "sledgehammer", the cook understood everything and quickly retreated.

Troshev participated in an interview with Prigozhin and Pegov, where he confirmed the calculations on shells.

[flicker]

Troshev participated in an interview with Prigozhin and Pegov, where he confirmed the calculations on shells.

Troshev somewhere said that he would leave the position?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: flicker

Troshev somewhere said that he would leave the position?

So let them refute Prigozhin's words that the decision to leave Bakhmut was made by the council of commanders.

[flicker]

accepted the advice of the commanders.

Council is the majority. And you need the personal opinion of Utkin and Troshev.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: flicker

And you need the personal opinion of Utkin and Troshev.

And why, in fact, do you need the opinion of Utkin and Troshev, if they make decisions like that there? They have built such a structure-democracy, let them comply.

[flicker]

And why, in fact, the opinion of Utkin and Troshev is needed

Because everyone (at least among the military) knows and respects both Utkin and Troshev.
Reputation (and Utkin and Troshev have it) is gained for a long time, and you can lose it instantly.
If Utkin and Troshev say they are leaving the position, they will immediately lose their reputation.

This is the opinion of many military men who fought in Afghanistan, in Chechnya, and who participated in the NWO.

This cook can say in the morning: what goes away completely, in a vow that he goes to rest, and in the evening what remains.

In general, a conflict is brewing and Prigozhin will be bent over by the Wagner fighters themselves.
In the near future, we should expect Prigozhin's apologies that he was misunderstood.

In general, showing the bodies of dead soldiers on the Internet and at the same time swearing is too much.
Maybe the Jews, of course, are the norm (and even then I doubt it), but there are no others?

[Fedor M]

Rather, they gave a turnip, and did not scratch ...

[Aerodrome]

Prigozhin: Defense Ministry allocates Wagner PMC the amount of ammunition and weapons necessary to continue the offensive

A strange VO, for sure, a game, actors, show-offs, stupidity ... everything is there. I'm tired. among the people already early-heartedness, what will be, will be. finish the game..

[Maz]

“And Surovikin is the only person with the star of an army general who knows how to fight. There is not a single reasonable person with this star anymore, ”added Prigozhin, - not a single fighter from Wagner PMC agreed to transfer to other units and the answer was in obscene form ...

[Maz]

Statement by Yevgeny Prigozhin, - "Tonight we received a combat order. We are promised to be given ammunition and weapons as much as we need to continue further actions.
Moth
They swear to us that everything that is necessary will be placed on the flanks so that the enemy does not cut us off.

We are given Surovikin as a person who will make decisions in the framework of interaction with the Ministry of Defense.

If someone wants, he can go to other formations. everyone unequivocally answered "no" in obscene form.
Well done
Yevgeny Prigogine! He crushed the iceberg of bureaucracy. Let's see how the morph contains its promises... Hope in God, but don't make a mistake yourself!!!

[flicker]

Yevgeny Prigogine! Pushed through the iceberg of bureaucracy

Yevgeny Prigozhin is a protege of the oligarchs-prozapdnikov and his goal is to sow confusion in Russia and ruin it.
---
But in his last statement, he made a serious mistake, and this mistake will cost him and his Jewish masters dearly.

[Alf]

Quote: flicker

Yevgeny Prigozhin is a protege of the oligarchs-prozapdnikov

Are there state oligarchs in Russia? Can you list them?

[Ivan Ivanov_36]

Yes. Prigogine. Galitsky.

Quote: Alf

Are there state oligarchs in Russia? Can you list them?

[Alf]

Quote: Ivan Ivanov_36

Yes. Prigogine. Galitsky.

Quote: Alf

Are there state oligarchs in Russia? Can you list them?

I would also add Kasper and Grudinin. Exceptions...

[Sergio63]

It is high time....!!! Well said about Surovikin and the others... with the stars!!? Looks exactly, there everything SUCKS full!!! Well, Wagner - respect and respect !!!

[isv000]

Quote: Sergio63

It is high time....!!! Well said about Surovikin and the others... with the stars!!? Looks exactly, there everything SUCKS full!!! Well, Wagner - respect and respect !!!

Accurately so on Shoigu walked!

[Simon]

Actually, you should have thought about this before, then you didn’t have to scratch your “turnip”! The guys in front go, do the sweep. Because of someone's carelessness, good wars are dying. I think there will be an investigation. Then, for someone, the "turnip" is definitely itchy.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Fantazer911

sons, fathers lay down their lives!

And such films must be watched so as not to give rise to ...

[lis-ik]

You can also remember "canned food". although in vain you, now many will be offended that they are instructed in pure Russian.

[Gardamir]

And in Russian there is no owl "vrazy". Correct several times.

[paul3390]

Looking at all this cataclysm, you understand more and more the motives of Joseph Vissarionovich, who organized a big cleansing of the tops of the Red Army ...

[AA17]

Dear Pavel.
I am surprised and amazed.
There was a scandal. The Secretary of Defense faces charges that have been made public. Requirements for Prigozhen to receive satisfaction from the Ministry of Defense were not put forward. Does that mean the accusations are true?
If the accusations are true, then why aren't the perpetrators publicly punished?
Has the scandal been settled?
Can someone explain what it was???

[barclay]

A long tradition of solving problems through "such-and-such a mother" (pardon my "French"). Only AFTER A YEAR, thoughts about establishing interaction appeared !!!
That is, a private company was called to help, but they did not bother to establish interaction.
But what kind of woodpeckers do we have in the leadership of the NWO? What kind of progress and development are we being told all the time?

[Alf]

Quote: barclay

But what kind of woodpeckers do we have in the leadership of the NWO?

Only in the leadership of the CBO?

Quote: barclay

What kind of progress and development are we being told all the time?

For 23 years they have been rubbing that we are uh-huh ...

[Corrosion inhibitor]

The key word is promised.
... I hope Prigozhin is smart enough not to fall for this divorce and not to set people up in vain. What has been promised must be fulfilled immediately, yesterday, with a speed increasing every day. And "carte blanche" for any action, so it was signed for everything - nothing more.
As a result, five people will be to blame for the delay in ammunition, and Prigozhin personally and the entire PMC as a whole will be blamed for the disruption of defensive operations, where a lot of ammunition is needed to avoid disruption. And the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation with the rear service and their generals is documented, i.e. de jure, will not be to blame for anything. And they will easily survive the de facto situation - home luxury and regular elite holidays will soon relieve them of all unpleasant memories. Then they will sew a wooden mackintosh for Prigozhin, they will say he is tired - so his heart could not stand it. And they will crush from above with some kind of debility pathos monument from Zurab Tseretelli ...
And then the videos on YouTube will be sharpened and all the "mistakes" will be sorted out in detail - they will fill the heads of civilians with nonsense and statements "as it was." And - it's done.
I hope citizen Prigozhin will not sign a single document now beyond what will be confirmed by the real results of the preparations according to the plan for the further combat mission. Because the next combat mission has already been completed. And the result of its implementation is not a consequence of promises, but a consequence of actions and their control - is.

[isv000]

Quote: Fantazer911

Looks like some in the Moscow Region got the video, they scratched their turnips and decided to supply the guys with everything necessary, there really is no Stalin and Beria in our power, the mess is treated according to the laws of wartime! In reality, they warm their seats for our money, and the guys, sons, fathers, lay down their lives for them!

It would be nice to recreate SMERSH on the basis of the Wagner PMC, it will be difficult for the generals to "agree" with these guys!

[Alexey Tlt]

And why then was Mizentsev engaged in the acquisition of category 4 shells? Maybe the problem is the real lack of shells?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Fantazer911

Looks like some in the Moscow Region got the video, they scratched their turnips and decided to supply the guys with everything necessary, there really is no Stalin and Beria in our power, the mess is treated according to the laws of wartime! In reality, they warm their seats for our money, and the guys, sons, fathers, lay down their lives for them!

PMC "Wagner" will receive the necessary shells, said Yevgeny Prigozhin. “The bottom line is the following - they promise to give us as much ammunition and weapons as we need to continue further actions, they swear to us that everything will be put up on the flank so that the enemy does not cut us off. We are told that we can act in Artemovsk as we see fit, and they give us Surovikin as a person who will make all decisions in the framework of the military operations of the Wagner PMC in cooperation with the Ministry of Defense,” Prigozhin said.

[Semovente7534]

I think that if the news is confirmed, then it will be a win-win for everyone.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Most likely, the Ministry of Defense introduced an ammunition limit in order to restore shell reserves. Since we have all defense plants working 24/7, there is hardly a shortage of them. In general, it was necessary to issue a law allowing direct receipt of shells from defense factories bypassing the Ministry of Defense and Wagner's problem would be solved, and let the Ministry of Defense save money.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Most likely, the Ministry of Defense introduced an ammunition limit in order to restore shell reserves. Since we have all defense plants working 24/7, there is hardly a shortage of them.

How long does it take to fire one projectile? And how long does it take to make it? Do not tell me?

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

How long does it take to fire one projectile? And how long does it take to make it? Do not tell me?

And how long does it take to manufacture the Su-34 and how long can it be lost? And now why not fly them on combat missions?
!!! Once again, Wagner is a small military PMC compared to the entire army of the Russian Federation, they do not need 60000 shells per day, so they could well give as much as they ask and would not become poorer in reserves.

[YanniKounnar]

Pour information , durant la première guerre mondiale la France, petit pays à l'époque de 40000000 habitants, fabriquait 12000 obus/jours en 1914 et 300000 obus/jours en 1918.( d'autres sources annonce une moyenne durant la guerre de 200000 XNUMX obus /jours)
Je ne doute pas que la Russie, même si il ya des obus plus "compliqués", soit capable de fournir bien plus que nécessaire d'obus.

For information, during the First World War, France, a small country at that time with a population of 40000000 people, produced 12000 shells per day in 1914 and 300000 shells per day in 1918. (Other sources report that the average during the war was fired 200000 rounds per day)
I have no doubt that Russia, even if there are more "sophisticated" shells, is capable of supplying much more shells than necessary.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Most likely, the Ministry of Defense introduced an ammunition limit in order to restore shell reserves. Since we have all defense plants working 24/7, there is hardly a shortage of them. In general, it was necessary to issue a law allowing direct receipt of shells from defense factories bypassing the Ministry of Defense and Wagner's problem would be solved, and let the Ministry of Defense save money.

In order for shell factories to really start working 24/7, you need to quadruple the number of employees.
Ага.
Just quadruple.
But they are not.
There is a huge shortage of workers in the country.
And the words about 24/7 are another lie from our military-industrial complex.
Putting storekeepers and cleaners on the night shift does not mean putting all production on the night shift.

[seti]

I doubt that there was some kind of misunderstanding, but it's okay that everything was finally resolved. The lives of our guys are much more valuable than these shells.

[SKVichyakow]

Quote: seti

I doubt that there was some kind of misunderstanding, but it's okay that everything was finally resolved. The lives of our guys are much more valuable than these shells.

The stupid ones tried to prove that they are EVERYTHING. Pendel showed that not EVERYTHING.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: seti

I doubt that there was some kind of misunderstanding, but it's okay that everything was finally resolved.

And I wouldn't be too quick to rejoice. Prigogine's enemies are too high-ranking. So, it can only be a distraction. Let's see what happens in a month.

[Void]

The king never interfered. Well anyway, it's ok

[james]

what is it in Russia? The second year of the NWO, and he never gave a clear answer to a single problem, and besides, he is not seen or heard.

[220 volts]

The performance of diverting attention from the drone in the Kremlin and the President's silence on this matter can be considered over.
Curtain, applause, the audience is happy.

[Argon]

And for you, ZIPSOT is probably a long topic for rocking?

[rocket757]

Prigozhin: Defense Ministry allocates Wagner PMC the amount of ammunition and weapons necessary to continue the offensive

. I just want to say / write "whether it will still be oh oh oh!"
And to draw conclusions from all this muddy ... wait for now.

[Xenofont]

Yes, Prigozhin himself said that they could give, and then quietly "cut the sturgeon" again. Offenses "at the top" are not forgiven, and the interests of the cause for the current ones are secondary.

[rocket757]

Questions, questions... let's see how things really go.

[Hiller]

Probably Mizintsev helped. Or common sense lit up.)))

[Corrosion inhibitor]

The Euroid U.K.R.s in the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and subordinate structures, as well as their curators over the hill, were afraid of public "recognition", which, in fact, calls into question their existence there with possible detention right in the office or liquidation right on the duty station for NATO countries.

They would also not be able to refuse to supply citizen Kadyrov and his relatives, who are heroically defending Artyomovsk, because this is a blatant fawn
And Prigozhin, a person from the outside, I believe that he is Russian. As long as he is in the foreground, all the euro-nits in the rear will be in his shadow ... continue to sabotage, earn Western salaries ... without the threat of blood feud. And they will somehow survive the threat of possible disclosure.
When one Euro-spy detains another in Russia on suspicion of espionage, we will inevitably see Ukrainian surnames and Ukrainian clowning there again later, when someone did what, no one will fully understand.

[flicker]

Probably Mizintsev helped. Or common sense lit up.)))

Rather the latter. Utkin and Troshev tapped the cook on the kumpol and, judging by the statement, he seemed to understand everything.

[rotmistr60]

The main conflict, which did not benefit anyone, was resolved. There is hope that in the future this will no longer happen to the delight of the enemy. Good luck guys and minimal losses.

[rocket757]

We say, we affirm that there is one big, chief boss above Kukuevsky, who can give them a good kick and they will throw me to perform!
The question is ... and who can give a kick to the negligent, what would they also rush to perform?

[Alexey G]

Tonight we received a combat order. We are promised to give ammunition and weapons as much as we need to continue further actions.

The Ministry of Defense promised Wagner shells and weapons, and in the volumes requested by the Orchestra. The PMC has already received the appropriate combat order, as well as carte blanche for any actions aimed at continuing the offensive in Artemovsk. According to Prigozhin, there are no people who want to leave the ranks of PMCs and move to other units.

Thank God!!!
Let it be so! Amen!
Thanks to all! Let there be our victory! BC UNLIMITED!!! For those who lead us to victory!
The best news of the week!!!
Prigozhin should generally be given a label for a lifetime pass to any military depots and ammunition in Russia and other countries!
Now throw it out of Artemovsk forever!

[jamonchik]

Alilujah.. Happy ending? This has never happened before and here it is again.

[Konnick]

Assault detachments of PMC "Wagner" will receive as many shells as necessary to continue the offensive in Artemovsk. This was stated by the curator of the "Orchestra" Yevgeny Prigozhin.

Why write a gag. Prigogine never uses the expression "storm troops". It's in someone's brain, having seen enough of "Star Wars" to enhance the pathos, the idea arose to call the Wagnerians that way.
Ryoma had assault detachments, there is no need to compromise our fighters fighting against Nazism with this Nazi term.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Konnick

Ryoma had assault detachments, there is no need to compromise our fighters fighting against Nazism with this Nazi term.

There were assault units in the Red Army.

[Konnick]

Assault units in the Red Army were

Parts, not squads. And they were not called stormtroopers.

[svp67]

Quote: Konnick

Parts, not squads. And they were not called stormtroopers.

From Zhukov's orders on the creation of assault groups by the commanders of the 43rd, 49th, 50th and 5th armies on March 22, 1942: "Capture settlements with specially created assault detachments ... Entrust the capture of each stronghold to a special strike detachment, specially selected, organized and put together, if necessary, with a preliminary rehearsal in the rear of their troops "

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Konnick

And they were not called stormtroopers.

My paternal grandfather called himself a stormtrooper.

[AdAstra]

And then what is dshb about? """"

[Alf]

Quote: Konnick

Ryoma had assault detachments, there is no need to compromise our fighters fighting against Nazism with this Nazi term.

But what about the term "assault engineer-sapper brigade"? Remind me, in the army of which country were they?

[svp67]

Quote: Alf

And how is life

b with the term "assault engineering brigade"? Remind me, in the army of which country were they?

So in this army there were "assault battalions" ...

Order of the People's Commissar of Defense No. Org / 2/1348 to the commanders of the Moscow, Volga and Stalingrad military districts on the formation of separate assault rifle battalions
1 1943 of August

Copies:
People’s Commissar of the Interior
Head of the Main Political Directorate of the Red Army,
Head of the Main Directorate of Personnel of the Red Army,
the commander of the artillery of the Red Army,
to the rear commander of the Red Army,
Head of the Main Artillery Directorate of the Red Army,
to the head of the financial department of the Red Army,
Head of the organizational and accounting department of the Red Army

In order to provide an opportunity for commanding and commanding personnel who have been in the territory occupied by the enemy for a long time and did not take part in partisan detachments, with arms in their hands to prove their allegiance to the Motherland, I order:
1. Form by August 25 of this year from contingents of commanding officers held in special camps of the NKVD:
The 1st and 2nd separate assault rifle battalions - in the Moscow military district, the 3rd separate assault rifle battalion - in the Volga military district, the 4th separate assault rifle battalion - in the Stalingrad military district.
The formation of battalions should be carried out according to state No. 04 / 331, with a number of 927 people each.
Battalions are intended for use in the most active sectors of the front.
2. To complete the formed assault battalions:
a) the posts of commanders of battalions, deputy. political battalion commanders, chiefs of staff, company commanders - at the expense of the best, carefully selected and well-trained commanding personnel with combat experience;
b) ordinary, junior commanding officers and the rest of commanding officers — at the expense of the middle and senior officers of special contingents located in the Lyubertsy, Podolsky, Ryazan and Coal special camps of the NKVD — for battalions formed in the Moscow Military District; Kalachevsky and Kotlubansky special camps of the NKVD - for the battalion formed in PrivO; Stalingrad, Belokalitvensky, Georgievsky special camps of the NKVD - for the battalion formed in the Stalingrad military district.
The missing staff for the assault rifle battalion formed in the Volga Military District should be allocated from the Khanlar NKVD special camp at the request of the district headquarters to the organizational headquarters of the General Staff of the spacecraft.
The appointment of both junior and middle commanding officers after careful selection of commanders from special contingents;
c) carts, blacksmiths forging, tailors, shoemakers, cooks, drivers - at the expense of special contingents located in the Lyubertsy, Podolsky and Ryazan special camps of the NKVD - for battalions formed in the Moscow Military District; The Kalachev and Kotlubansky Special Camps of the NKVD - for the battalion formed in the Volga Military District, and the Stalingrad, Belokalitvensky, Georgievsky Special Camps of the NKVD - for the battalion formed in the Stalingrad Military District.
3. The term of stay of personnel in separate assault rifle battalions shall be established for two months of participation in battles, either before being awarded an order for displayed valor in battle or before the first wound, after which the personnel, if there are good certifications, may be assigned to the appropriate field positions for commanding and commanding officers composition.
4. All personnel assigned from the special camps of the NKVD to establish the form of clothing in accordance with their positions in the assault battalion.
5. To the personnel of battalions to establish salaries of the contents on the positions occupied in a battalion.
6. Families of personnel assigned to battalions from the special camps of the NKVD should be given all the rights and advantages defined by law for families of commanding officers.
7. By 5.8.1943, the chiefs of the main directorates of non-profit organizations should provide the formed battalions with the necessary personnel, equipment, weapons, property, and transport.
8. To inform about the performance.
People's Commissar of Defense
Marshal of the Soviet Union I. Stalin

TsAMO. F.Z. OP.11566. D. 13. L. 210–212.

[Alf]

Quote: svp67

So in this army there were "assault battalions" ..

Colleague didn't know about it...

[Skobaristan]

Well, yes, from the other side, comrades Ukrainians, the musicians did not observe "shell hunger", and it ended). Now 10 do not leave? ... or maybe they were not going to. IMHO someone is being hit on the ears, and the audience is rather outside, it should have been.

[flicker]

With his one statement that the Akhmat special forces are ready to take Wagner's positions in Bakhmut, Kadyrov nullified the blackmail by Prigozhin (not Wagner, namely Prigozhin) of the Russian Defense Ministry, and through this, Putin.

As soon as Prigozhin (and the pro-Westerners who stand behind him) realized that the blackmail had failed, the drain immediately began, but cunningly (in a prigozhian spirit), they say, the shells were promised.

Assault detachments of PMC "Wagner" will receive as many shells as necessary to continue the offensive in Artemovsk. This was stated by the curator of the "Orchestra" Yevgeny Prigozhin.

A vivid example of how the VOIN with one of his statements (and readiness to immediately fulfill this declared) nullified the pro-Western scenario of the rebellion.

[Argon]

Your TsIPSOshnoe opinion is of no interest to anyone here! But I will answer you in order to settle a little bit of reason in your inflamed brain. Kadyrov came to the aid of Prigozhin so that the "blackmail" was complete. If Prigozhin had simply left, leaving Artyomovsk, then the dock was waiting for him! And so Kadyrov promised to replace him, and it turns out "blackmail" is not a bluff, as they first thought in the Moscow Region!

[flicker]

But I will answer you in order to settle a little bit of reason in your inflamed brain

Thanks for sharing your mind.
Well, your suggestion is very strong:

Kadyrov came to the aid of Prigozhin so that the "blackmail" was complete.

The blackmail consisted in the fact that Wagner would leave the position and thereby bring down the front.
Once again, blackmail is that "we will leave and the front will collapse." Those. You will have nothing to close it. Be afraid of it.

And Ramzan Kadyrov said he was ready to close this section of the front. Which means - the front will not collapse. So there is nothing to be afraid of, which means blackmail failed.

So who did he save, MO or Prigogine? Who is responsible for the military operation of the Defense Ministry or Prigozhin?
---
In general, after Prigozhin's last statement, Kadyrov's attitude towards Prigozhin will be sharply negative (to put it mildly).

And another important detail, yesterday in our closed chats I specifically asked a question to all junior commanders, who immediately brought it to the attention of the fighters, if someone wants, he can go to other military formations. Everyone unequivocally answered no, and in an obscene, naturally characteristic form for PMC "Wagner".

Prigogine could have omitted this detail (by the way, the question is: is this true?), but he said it.
Said it means angry at Kadyrov, at his initiative.
---
Prigozhin promotes the position of the pro-Western Russian elite and, above all, its Jewish part.
He does not give a damn about Russia and the rest.

[Alf]

Quote: flicker

Prigozhin promotes the position of the pro-Western Russian elite

Can I have a list of the pro-Russian elite?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: flicker

With his one statement that the Akhmat special forces are ready to take Wagner's positions in Bakhmut, Kadyrov nullified the blackmail by Prigozhin (not Wagner, namely Prigozhin) of the Russian Defense Ministry, and through this, Putin.

As soon as Prigozhin (and the pro-Westerners who stand behind him) realized that the blackmail had failed, the drain immediately began, but cunningly (in a prigozhian spirit), they say, the shells were promised.

Assault detachments of PMC "Wagner" will receive as many shells as necessary to continue the offensive in Artemovsk. This was stated by the curator of the "Orchestra" Yevgeny Prigozhin.

A vivid example of how the VOIN with one of his statements (and readiness to immediately fulfill this declared) nullified the pro-Western scenario of the rebellion.

And what about Akhmat?
Haven't heard from him in almost a year...

[Argon]

And you're not supposed to hear about them. They have quieter tasks now

[flicker]

And what about Akhmat?
Haven't heard from him in almost a year.

How much would you have heard about Wagner if not for Prigozhin's universal PR?
Moreover, Prigozhin's PR goes far (once again: far) ahead of the successes of PMC Wagner.
That the VKS does not strike Bakhmut with FABs? Deals. Don't these blows help Wagner in Bakhmut? Help.
On the reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (which could be in Bakhmut) does the VKS strike? Deals.
And then why is Prigozhin yelling that only Wagner is fighting?
Because he promotes the position of pro-Western oligarchs. He needs to remove Putin and negotiate with the West.

The fact that Wagner fights well (and the guys there fight really well), this not only does not prevent the pro-Western oligarchs from moving towards their goal, but, on the contrary, only helps.

With the successes of Wagner (i.e., the courage of Wagner’s fighters), he hits the Russian Defense Ministry. If you destroy the Russian Defense Ministry (and we have it as it is), then the state of Russia will collapse.

It turns out a paradoxical situation: Wagner is advancing (which is good for the Moscow Region and for Russia) - we need to help him, but Prigozhin, with Wagner’s successes, hits the Moscow Region and, therefore, Russia, i.e. the better Wagner fights, the more dangerous (because of Prigozhin's attacks on the Moscow Region) for Russia.

That is why it is important for us now to slip between Scylla and Charybdis.
We need to help Wagner as well, but at the same time (because of Prigozhin's media blows) it should not be dangerous for Russia.
---
All the problems of Wagner, because of Prigozhin, because Prigozhin is backed by the interests of Western oligarchs.

[forty-eighth]

There are many videos on tik tok from them.

Quote: SovAr238A

And what about Akhmat?

[Alf]

Quote: flicker

(and the pro-Westerners who stand behind him)

Is the list possible?

[The collective farm is voluntary.]

And there is also the option that all the talk about the "shell hunger" is pure bluff, in order to lure as many ukroreserves as possible to Bakhmut.
Knowing the degree of acquaintance of Comrade. Prigozhin with our "top", it is naive to believe that a couple of generals in the Moscow Region cut off his oxygen in terms of BC.
Element of the information war. In the press, only "Wagner" is promoted, the special forces of the Moscow Region, "Sparta", "Somali", "Pyatnashka" are almost not discussed.

[panov_panov]

It turns out that there are no problems with ammunition in the country, it turns out that it can be supplied in the quantities necessary for the conduct of hostilities. This raises several questions, was it necessary to bring to such a situation and wash with one's own blood? And the second question is who will bear responsibility for this disgrace?!

[Nikolay310]

There are problems ... only they are yelling about them, not only everyone ... some try to whisper and they are not heard ...

[Alf]

Quote: panov_panov

And the second question is who will bear responsibility for this disgrace?!

The stump is clear, no one, if you don’t live in Russia ...

[Old sergeant]

This is sabotage, that is, it was on the part of senior officials. Or am I wrong?
There were weapons and shells, but they were kept from hand to mouth.

[Nikolay310]

Are you sure that these shells will not be taken away from those who cannot record videos and swear as loudly as Prigogine? The worst thing is if now, for the sake of this Bakhmut, other directions are snared, which the Ukrainians will then climb ... as if not to lose more than they gained ... the liberation of Artemovsk will do little, but a blow to Volnovakha or Melitopol can be critical

[Alf]

Quote: Nikolay310

if now, for the sake of this Bakhmut, they will wrap up other directions, which the Ukrainians will then climb

A counter question, where are the warehouses bursting with shells? Destroyed last year by the Chimeras? And where are the factories that are supposed to produce shells for 20 years? Has anyone answered for this?

[bk-sarmat]

prigozhin, about a star on shoulder straps, respect ...... coolly lowered not only Shoigu with Gerasimov, but also Patrushev

[Nikolay310]

What about Patrushev? Is he in command of the regiments???

[ivan2022]

Surovikin is of the same nationality as Prigozhin, so who else is reasonable and who knows how to fight? So spitting in the face of an entire army is, of course, not a discredit, but a compliment ......

Now it's really interesting - what is the state of the generals now, about whom they defiantly wiped their feet and who can only wipe themselves silently ....?

Although Prigogine is a pharmacist by profession. As it should be according to ancient tradition .....
It seems that May 7 was the day of their personal victory. Over MO.

Congratulations to the winners, cheers! The Russian people rejoice.....

[Nikolay310]

What kind of generals did they wipe their feet on? About the hero of the triple "forcing" at Belogorovka? Or maybe about the Ugledar craftsman to stomp a column along a narrow road? I do not think that these words refer to Teplinsky only from the most famous

[ivan2022]

Quote: Nikolay310

What kind of generals did they wipe their feet on? About the hero of the triple "forcing" at Belogorovka? Or maybe about the Ugledar craftsman to stomp a column along a narrow road? I do not think that these words refer to Teplinsky only from the most famous

In other words, you read one thing, but how to understand it, you think that you want ....
.. That's also possible...

[Sebostyuan]

And who is our current army general. Too lazy to look, but mine: Surovikin, Shoigu, Gerasimov, Bulgakov.

[nachkar67]

The condition of the generals should have been very bad for a very long time (for those who have honor and conscience left), but as for Prigozhin's specialty, look at Shoigu's biography. Better ask him (S) if he has honor and conscience.

[jovanni]

So what was it to bring the situation to such a state? It seems that only now the information was brought to the chief commander ...

[ivan2022]

Quote: Jovanni

That's what it was to bring ..... It seems that only now the information was brought to the chief commander ...

That is, this was brought to the attention of the general public on a regular basis, and the chief boss did not know anything ...

[Alf]

Quote: ivan2022

But the boss didn't know...

And the internet cable was not connected to it ...

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

"To promise does not mean to marry" (C)

Although I have long had suspicions that all this whining is misinformation, so that the "non-brothers" will quickly launch an offensive where we need to. But I did not voice them until M. Podolyaka blurted out.

However, "war is a way of deception" (C) And who will outwit whom and in what will be clear according to the results, and then not immediately.

[Denis812]

Yes, who would doubt it.
Tov. Prigogine has mastered the button accordion and can make MO do something.
What I wrote about in other threads.

He will not leave Bakhmut. Will not work. It was all just bargaining.
Prigozhin did a good job, of course, but the sediment remained.

[Nikolay310]

The most important thing is that they really give from reserves or from production ... and not rob even more other units ... because if they take Bakhmut, but lose the south, then it will be a disaster ...

And as for Armageddon ... well, maybe against the background of Luradov and Mapin he can, but ... what does he have in his asset besides the "difficult decision" and the "Bakhmut meat grinder" ??? Well, incomprehensible swotting on transformers ...

[Horn]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Most likely, the Ministry of Defense introduced an ammunition limit in order to restore shell reserves. Since we have all defense plants working 24/7, there is hardly a shortage of them. In general, it was necessary to issue a law allowing direct receipt of shells from defense factories bypassing the Ministry of Defense and Wagner's problem would be solved, and let the Ministry of Defense save money.

- Well said! What about brokerage margin?

[Sergey Egorov_3]

it never ended, there is a firestorm from Wagner every evening, this is an info war, the same as now from Ukraine, there are supposedly no supplies, the offensive is not ready, etc., etc.

[trenkkvaz]

From the very beginning, I understood that this was a circus designed for Ukraine. But it was mostly the local audience that fell for it.
In no army in the world during the war, not a single military leader, no matter how bad it is, has the right to openly say the things that Prigozhin said. This undermines the basic principle of the army - unity of command.
Imagine that during the Second World War, some general in the newspaper Pravda began to carry such nonsense.
Is it absurd? So why don't you think it's absurd now?

[Alexey Alekseev_5]

I must tell you ..I.V. Stalin issued a plan for an attack on Poland in 20. He simply took and published his disagreement in the newspaper, though. And he didn’t get anything for it. It’s called. So some generals who dabbled in post-war memoirs noted that they were unsettled by some passages. I haven’t seen the full text of this play anywhere. In their memoirs, neither Zhukov nor Rokossovsky mentioned this play

[Gardamir]

Prigogine is not a military leader, but a businessman.

[Alf]

Quote: trenkkvaz

Imagine that during the Second World War, some general in the newspaper Pravda began to carry such nonsense.

Because in the Second World War such crap was immediately heard at the very top and immediately resolved. And because there was a Supreme Commander-in-Chief in the Second World War, and now he is not there, the Defense Ministry is fighting on its own.

[Country]

It is not at all pleasant to hear that the Russian army does not have enough weapons!

[Olga Cherdak]

It's time to launch SMERSH, so that there is no one to put spokes in the wheels !! A type of Bulgakov to punish !!

[Alf]

Quote: Olga Cherdak

It's time to launch SMERSH, so that there is no one to put spokes in the wheels !!

So SMERSH in this situation will have to go to the very top ...
How does it say about the course of the investigation?

[Strannik96]

Quote: Vadim Topal-Pasha

"To promise does not mean to marry" (C)

Although I have long had suspicions that all this whining is misinformation, so that the "non-brothers" will quickly launch an offensive where we need to. But I did not voice them until M. Podolyaka blurted out.

However, "war is a way of deception" (C) And who will outwit whom and in what will be clear according to the results, and then not immediately.

So it is, but here they are being conducted, with fists on the clave, "what is it?" And the non-brothers don’t know what to do - it’s not very rich with shells or is it a joke

[Alexey Alekseev_5]

More Suvorov A.V. used to say. Any quartermaster after three years of service can be shot without trial. This is how many Bulgakov stole? Horror...

[Amateur]

NWO is more and more reminiscent of not a good memory Afghanistan, when some fought at the front, while others in the rear "made money"
My relative's father-in-law, a colonel, held a general's position at the headquarters of the TurkVO and flew to Kabul once a month for a couple of days to receive "front-line allowances" in checks. His wife, somewhat similar to L. Narusova, was also "distinguished by intelligence and ingenuity", when we met at the holidays with common relatives, looking at the table, she always said:
"And I take sausage and even mayonnaise only in Beryozka."
Alas!!!

[bombaher]

Weapons and ammunition are allocated. Great. And the personnel? Prigogine, on the other hand, said that Wagner needed to "lick his wounds" due to high losses without enough ammunition, which they had not received for a long time.
They are playing some kind of circus with the Moscow Region, apparently filling the information field.

[WIN969]

Everything was very predictable. And whether they give Prigozhin shells or not, PMCs could not leave Artemovsk anyway without the permission of the Moscow Region.

[Mint Gingerbread]

Just like playing poker. There is only a bluff around, but who has trump cards, and who has a dummy.

[1 z1]

The feeling of worry and anxiety for everything and everyone has changed to a feeling of a cool scammer and .... (hard and brazen deception)

[Carlos Hall]

I knew and said that this honest man Prigozhin was not going to disappoint. He is a hero of Russia. We should also appreciate Kadyrov, who came forward in a difficult situation.

[Gardamir]

Your honest man was imprisoned for fraud for 9 years.

[AdAstra]

Why are you, who remembers it now, he is now "holy and sinless."

[AdAstra]

Oddly enough, but I’ll write a little in defense of the Moscow Region, since where does the mess in the Moscow Region and PMCs come from, are they a structural unit of the Moscow Region? For some reason, no one writes that the same subdivisions of the Armed Forces lack this, but constantly PMCs and PMCs? Or the Marines or the landing force, that their flanks provide enough of everything?

[opposite28]

The work continues, I will ask the attention of the orchestra from the 8th figure please !!! We continue!!! Generals from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, reconsider your behavior and especially leave your wife's ambitions at home !!!

[Dante77]

I do not understand something. If there are grenades, then why were they not delivered earlier? Someone interfered with the supply of ammunition? Or will ammunition be taken from other units?

[hector]

Tonight we received a combat order. We are promised to give ammunition and weapons as much as we need to continue further actions.

Promising and giving are not the same thing.

[opposite28]

Tonight we received a combat order. We are promised to give ammunition and weapons as much as we need to continue further actions.

- he said.

Promise does not mean highlight. That's when the property in the required amount arrives at the positions occupied by the PMC "Wagner" and when the news about the "shell hunger" stops coming in, then it will be possible to say with confidence that the crisis in relations between the Russian Defense Ministry and the PMC "Wagner" at this stage of the NMD permitted

[nachkar67]

Why was it necessary to bring the situation to such a crisis (I'm talking about the Moscow Region) and who was responsible for its creation?

[Alf]

Quote from: nachkar67

Why was it necessary to bring the situation to such a crisis (I'm talking about the Moscow Region) and who was responsible for its creation?

[Evgeny_Sviridenko]

Prigogine's behavior is sympathetic. To be honest, there are not so many people now, both in the military and civilian spheres, who think and care about people.

[kenpachi]

Here, and the army said, the charter, subordination, even a criminal order must be carried out, and complain only later.
Here is a clear example for you that you need to complain BEFORE the roasted rooster appears.

[BorzRio]

Prigozhin's last message was yesterday - he is still waiting for the shells promised by the Russian Defense Ministry. There were no messages that he was already receiving them.

[russian_bruin]

Quote: Ivan Ivanov_36

Yes. Prigogine. Galitsky.

Galitsky is such a statesman that he kept his money in Western banks, which is why his football club had problems with money

[Giuseppe_Cagliostro]

From that Soviet, legendary army, judging by recent events, there were ears left from a dead donkey. In such a situation, the "civilized world" united behind Ukraine, with such an army, with such a military and political leadership, is impossible, in my modestly couch-like opinion, to win in such a situation. All the participants of "Evening with Vladimir Solovyov" sound the alarm.

[Alex_5]

Well, reason won over insults, what a bummer for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The chances of winning have increased many times over. He is great who can curb his resentment and make a compromise, as a result, he will return a hundredfold many times over! This is for someone in the RF Ministry of Defense.

[Uncle_Misha]

I see scolding our Defense Ministry now as a rule of good taste. But they didn’t forget that they began to destroy our army, and the Defense Ministry is part of it, they started a long time ago and very successfully.? Apparently they forgot, and now we have what we have .. About shell hunger. Was there a boy.? Only Prigozhin talks about him, but for what purpose he speaks is a big question. By the way, in the Second World War, ammunition was rationed until the end of the war, documents confirming this are freely available. About the ban on recruiting prisoners. workers are not intended to be given away.

[Earring]

How can the Defense Ministry fight better than Wagner if they haven’t really trained soldiers and sergeants for years? And in previous (Soviet) times there were not enough smart officers, but now where can we get them???

[Uncle_Misha]

The quality of officer training, at least that’s what the teachers at the University claimed, fell with the introduction of the tower. Until about the middle of the third year, subjects were taught whose knowledge was practically not used.

[Uncle_Misha]

To achieve results, you need both people and equipment, as well as the ability to use it all effectively. There is a certain tension with technology, there is nothing to say about people, we remember with what creaking the partial mobilization was going on. So you will have to forget about bypasses, coverages and surroundings for an indefinite time.

[Giuseppe_Cagliostro]

Prigogine, man, get things done! Said - done. Not these ones - covered in medals from forehead to tailbone, with toilets in warm offices and air conditioning, who can write beautiful reports with ten deputies and smartly report on mana from heaven and intergalactic missiles!
Prigozhin - Lukashenko from the war.
He alone is worth a hundred sycophants!
But according to Prigozhin’s press service, there are no shells.
Minus.

[Giuseppe_Cagliostro]

Quote from AdAstra

Oddly enough, I’ll write a little in defense of the Moscow Region, because what does the mess in the Moscow Region and PMCs have to do with it, are they a structural unit of the Defense Ministry?

If Vladimir Vladimirovich is not the president for you and his decrees on supplying everyone are not decrees, then this is an argument for you about the structural units of the Moscow Region!

[Giuseppe_Cagliostro]

Twenty minutes before the Victory Parade on Red Square. Prigozhin's press service - there are no shells.
Is this sabotage or sabotage? - I have only this question in my head.

[Victor V.]

To be honest, this is just ridiculous - the Russian troops ground down all their teeth in this bammut. The town has been standing outside #Opinsk for almost a year.
There is a road along which all this is transported by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, 1 km wide. Recently there was a remote mining system here on the website. Where is she??? You can also mine from an airplane. What kind of nonsense is this?