Get rid of "isms"

237
Get rid of "isms"
The primeval era lasted more than a million years. And all this time people were engaged in the struggle with nature. They did not have classes, exploitation of man by man, that is, one continuous well-being in terms of relations between people. Although culture has already appeared - religion, clothing, jewelry, a complex intra-tribal hierarchy ... True, in this picture from a textbook on stories for the 5th grade, they are still quite wild ...


My mouth will speak wisdom
and the meditations of my heart are knowledge.

Psalms 48:4

Problems of historical knowledge. The discussion of the article “Three epochs and six periods in the history of knightly weapons” dated March 26, 2023 turned, as I actually expected, into an interesting discussion about what feudalism is. Moreover, VO readers showed considerable erudition, considering the question of what chivalry is as a component of the feudal era, which could not but please me. And so much so that I cannot help but cite here some of the comments that I especially remember, and I hope that their authors will not be offended by me for this. The only thing I took the liberty of correcting some of them a little, so that they would be more understandably perceived by readers.



Korsar4 (Sergey). The Knight is a European product. Although prototypes can be found in any civilization.

Paul3390 (Paul). In the XNUMXth century, there were already heavy cavalry in the east. In Europe, the knights were just pecking ...

Mihaylov (Mihaylov). By the way, why not scrape together for feudalism, say, in Mycenaean society? There is not even semi-feudalism, but quite a feudal system is obtained.

Eduard Vashchenko (Eduard). Without the death of a clan, no state will appear; nowhere in Europe do we see a fief, feud or estate appear on the basis of a clan. For a feudal lord, in addition to "chain mail", a horse and "placement", feudal dependents are also needed.
The issuance of land for service, or the right to collect income - this methodologically is not feudalism.
The knight is a unique European phenomenon: a fusion of social specificity (Christianity, external threats and the creation of a system of existence of society, feudalism) plus technology (chain mail, armor and a horse).
The presence of a cataphract or cataphract, which we observe from antiquity, is not a sign of a "knight" in its specific meaning.


3x3zsave (Anton). I would start with economics.

Let's start?


Ancient Egypt is the cradle of civilization. And what was not there. Here are some examples of temples. And workshops were assigned to them, where free Egyptians worked, not slaves, who received a salary for this. Behind the fence ... An analogue of our Soviet "sharashkas" ?! And to what formation should their work be attributed? Slavery? Feudalism? Capitalism? And ordinary Egyptians in the Old Kingdom were sent to build pyramids for three months. Our students on the collective farms worked less in autumn, but after all, there must have been at least some progress over all these millennia...

Wonderful, isn't it? True, personally, I first of all drew attention to the comments of the reader under the nickname Paul3390 (Paul), since he touched on a very interesting topic regarding the fact that chivalry as a phenomenon arose precisely in the East, and later migrated to Europe. He tried to defend his point of view convincingly, but he did not succeed too convincingly. But it did not work out, first of all, because ... well, a person is not familiar with historiography on this issue, both our Russian (and Soviet as well) and foreign.

The fact is that this issue was considered back in the era of the USSR on the pages of a very respectable publication - the journal of the Russian Academy of Sciences "Questions of History". The article was called "Eastern chivalry (in comparison with the western)", 1986, No. 10, author A. S. Yunusov. Usually, in my articles on VO, I do not resort to links to the so-called "live journals" (God alone knows what pearls can be found in them), but in this case I wanted to recommend to VO readers the most accessible source posted on the Web back in 2015, namely this very article here on this website.

I remember that this article, with its argumentation, made a strong impression on me, but in 1986 I was not yet engaged in chivalry and postponed it until better times. Apparently, he had a presentiment that I would definitely need it in the future. And these times came in 1997, when the Prosveshchenie publishing house published my first book on a knightly theme: Knights of the Middle Ages. It contained the last two chapters: "Knights of the East" and "Knights of the Indians." But it had to happen that the publishing house allowed an overrun of pages, and all the books that were being prepared for publication at that very moment were reduced by ... a certain number of pages. This is how my book, for example, lost these last two chapters and some more volume of the last remaining chapter, which is noticeable in the text.


Take a closer look at these drawings made from wall reliefs in the tombs (mastabas) of Egyptian officials. Developed production, developed economy. But where are the slaves? And they appeared only in the era of the New Kingdom

And again, everything that happens is all for the best. As a result, this chapter grew to a whole book - "Knights of the East", published by the publishing house "Pomatur" based on the layout of the publishing house "Enlightenment" in 2002.

Well, there were also several materials on VO about this. In particular, in 2017, material was published here "Knights from Shahnameh" , with beautiful illustrations and excerpts from Ferdowsi's poem, which he completed in 991, and naturally began to write much earlier.


Typical "three-quarter" armor, that is, only to the knees, belonged to Lieutenant General, Count Adolf von Schwarzenberg (1547–1600). Made around 1590 in Milan by Pompeo della Cesa. And what’s interesting is that by the time the knights appeared in such armor, the first bourgeois revolution was already raging in the Netherlands, that is, even officially feudalism was living out its last years there ... Dresden armory ward. Author's photo

It would be possible to stop at this, if not for one important circumstance.

The speech in the comments concerned not only the comparison of eastern chivalry with the western one, but also the vagueness of the wording of the very concept of feudalism. And this is what I would like to pay special attention to.

Commentator Mihaylov (Mihaylov) found it even in Crete-Mycenaean society. But all other characteristics of the five socio-economic formations known to us are also blurred. In ancient Egypt, for example, the clan perished long ago, and there was a state that owned the whole earth. And for a long time there were so few slaves that they were even called "living dead." That is, initially this potential labor force was simply killed. And what was the system in Ancient Egypt then?

Or take the US in 1861... Advanced capitalism in the North and slavery in the South. Slavery! But in the United States it was at least abolished in 1863. In Brazil - let's remember the TV series Slave Isaura, beloved in our country in the 90s - it was canceled much later, namely in 1888. That is, there was a slave system there ?!

Let's open any Russian school textbook that deals with events in Russia in the first half of the XNUMXth century. And there will be a paragraph: "The development of capitalism in Russia." But in Russia at that time there was serfdom, that is, there was feudalism. So - he developed latently?

And the speech, it turns out, is only about the percentage of this or that phenomenon. What more?! And if 50x50? Whereas? Feudal capitalism?


Entertainment tournaments of the feudal nobility took place until the end of the XNUMXth century. When the capitalist pressure finally put an end to feudalism, not only in Holland, but also in England. Dresden Armory. Author's photo

“Slaves with huts” (columns) were in slave-owning Rome, and these are the same serfs, but the Slavs also traded in slaves, and the most real ones, in the early feudal period of our history. Feudal Cedric of Saxony from Ivanhoe had a slave, Vampa, and the future Captain Blood was exiled to America as a “white slave” for participating in the Monmouth uprising, although there had long been capitalism in England at that time.


Freed Negro slaves and their white mistress Scarlet O'Hara. A frame from the film Gone with the Wind. There is slavery in the South, isn't there? But the owners of these same slaves sold their cotton on the market, entered into market relations, and the market is one of the most important signs of capitalism

That is, there are no clear characteristics for all five socio-economic formations inherited from Karl Marx!


Shot from the series "Slave Izaura". This is how slave women worked in Brazil until 1888, although by that time capitalism had won even in backward feudal Japan!

That is, it turns out that practically none, except the very first one, and even then with reservations, the famous scheme of Karl Marx does not fit. Yes, it is simple, understandable, accessible to memorization for the most mediocre mind. But it does not at all reflect all the wealth of socio-economic relations known to us that existed in our society at different stages of its development. Not to mention such an ephemeral formation as communism, with its first phase - socialism.


This is what Karl Marx was like. And on the right - this is what he came up with ...

In the 20s, there was the NEP in the USSR, that is, there were completely market relations, but even then the work of various artels that existed during Stalin's lifetime was also quite marketable. Under Khrushchev, the nationalization of the economy reached its maximum, although market relations persisted between ... economic councils! Then the Kosygin reform - again an attempt to reduce the degree of nationalization of the economy.

And what is the result? Because of what, again, all the same confrontation with the United States, all sorts of Jackson-Vanik amendments directed against our economy ... And this was just an attempt to prove the superiority of one of the two models of economic management.

American - 50x50 percent (public and private sector) and 98 percent of the Soviet state economy. That is, all this, again, is a market, but with a different level of private and state control. So here, too, Marx's theory is obviously failing today, although, of course, he could not have foreseen the emergence of mobile electronic communications and industrial robots.

In any case, it is obvious that one should look for some other division of society into some other ... stages that more reflect the realities of the economy of different eras, allowing one to foresee the future, without resorting to any "isms".

To be continued ...
237 comments
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  1. +7
    April 4 2023 04: 13
    American - 50x50 percent (public and private sector)

    Remind me where in the US there is a public sector? Airports, federal roads, seaports - this is the state ... Not recruited 50%
    1. +5
      April 4 2023 04: 52
      Don't know. My personal opinion is to separate the concepts of feudalism and serfdom. In this case, the system remains as it is.
      By the way, the "noble" class was also in most cases dependent. For example, domestic nobles received their "liberties" from the hands of Peter III.
      1. +7
        April 4 2023 06: 13
        For example, domestic nobles received their "liberties" from the hands of Peter III.

        And got the Table of Ranks. This is where the reptiles had expanse, since having received "freedom" they received the "right" of personal devotion. Those. if you were a boyar family, then the children will be of the same noble family, and this was independent of the tsar, now you have to curry favor, regardless of nobility, but according to rank. This largely predetermined the future corruption of the state. And our parrots continue the "tradition" in the advisers of some class ... the legalized nomenklatura, under the slogans of fighting which they came to power, hanging spaghetti over the ears of lovers of democracy, or rather freeloaders waiting for manna from heaven.
        1. +6
          April 4 2023 11: 27
          In fact, the "Table of Ranks" was introduced by Peter 1 and forced ALL nobles to serve.
          This is already later: "decree on noble liberties."
          For its time, it was progressive. Another thing is that it had to be modernized so that it would correspond to the times.
      2. +4
        April 4 2023 09: 37
        For example, domestic nobles received their "liberties" from the hands of Peter III.

        Hi all. Nikolai Ivanovich Pavlenko in his monograph "Peter III" wrote that relief to the nobility began even after the death of Peter I, and Peter III, so to speak, only "summed up".
      3. +1
        April 4 2023 11: 18
        My personal opinion is to separate the concepts of feudalism and serfdom.
        How will you divorce? In Europe, serfdom was abolished, not in all countries, but somewhere in the 14th-16th centuries, feudalism continued to exist, slowly yielding to new bourgeois, capitalist relations. In Russia, serfdom was finally established in the middle of the 17th century, feudalism is gaining full strength. The beginnings of capitalist relations are just being formed.
        1. +3
          April 4 2023 20: 58
          Quote: kor1vet1974
          How will you divorce?

          Yes Easy. Shpakovsky beat K. Marx with an iron argument "Slave Isaura" and "Gone with the Wind", then why can't something be separated from something. laughing
      4. AAK
        +1
        April 4 2023 13: 56
        In reality, until the end of the first half of the 19th century, both the Republic of Ingushetia and the USA were slave-owning states, therefore, in my opinion, it is rather not their "ataman Karla" with his theory of socio-economic formations that is right, but historians - supporters of the "civilizational approach" ...
        1. +4
          April 4 2023 21: 04
          Quote: AAK

          In reality, until the end of the first half of the 19th century, both the Republic of Ingushetia and the USA were slave-owning states, therefore, in my opinion, it’s more likely that it’s not right

          Of course, I don’t know how it was in the USA in the first half of the 19th century, but in the Republic of Ingushetia a serf had his own farmstead with a subsidiary farm, a piece of land, and only a certain part of his time had to work for his master. Is this very similar to a slave who does not have his own farmstead and works all the time for the owner for feeding?
    2. +3
      April 4 2023 06: 31
      Quote: Luminman
      American - 50x50 percent (public and private sector)

      Remind me where in the US there is a public sector? Airports, federal roads, seaports - this is the state ... Not recruited 50%

      Well, and 20 and 80% will be typed?
    3. +1
      April 4 2023 08: 06
      Army, prisons, police, administration, education (suddenly - "In the United States, local governments are primarily responsible for education: approximately 90% of elementary and high school students and 80% of college students are registered in public educational institutions"), in many offices - fractional participation of the state ... It may well be enough, but not everything is counted by GNP - municipal structures do not produce anything, such as the same courts
    4. -6
      April 4 2023 09: 03
      Remind me where in the US there is a public sector? Airports, federal roads, seaports - this is the state ... Not recruited 50%

      Insurance FCIC, FDIC, NFIP...
      Postal Services - USPS.
      Lending - CDFI Fund ...
      Banking...
      Legal services...
      Retirement ...
      Transportation ...
      Mortgage ...
      The prison industry...
      In addition, in the United States, enterprises owned by state governments are also considered state property (in the United States, each state has its own Constitution, Legislative Assembly, governor, supreme court and capital) and federally recognized tribes of Indians.
      For example, US lotteries are owned by state-owned corporations.
      If all this is summed up, it is possible to learn 50 to 50.
      1. +5
        April 4 2023 10: 11
        All these are state institutions, something like the Congress, the State Department or the Moscow Region. In a word, everything that a private trader does not want to take on ... For example, in France, the public sector was about 30% before the right came to power. The Renault automobile concern is a small example of this ...
        1. -4
          April 4 2023 12: 30
          All these are state institutions, something like the Congress, the State Department or the Moscow Region. In a word, everything that a private trader does not want to take on ...

          Well, yes, banks and insurance companies - a private trader, of course, does not want to take on this, after all, a bank is a pure semblance of Congress, and an insurance company is the same State Department. Well, logistics is the same as the Ministry of Defense. Amazing knowledge of the American economy. Moreover, there are many such experts, judging by the marks.
          1. +4
            April 4 2023 13: 26
            Quote: sergej_84
            Well, yes, banks and insurance companies - a private trader, of course, does not want to take on this

            All these state-owned banks and insurance companies serve solely to issue coupons for free food in the dining room "Former Stomach Friend" and support the poor. This means paying for tuition on some courses and issuing loans for immigrants so that they can open their own business and not hang around the social security offices with an outstretched hand. Classic social. As a rule, these loans are not returned ...


            1. 0
              April 4 2023 13: 41
              All these state-owned banks and insurance companies serve solely to issue coupons for free food in the dining room "Former Stomach Friend" and support the poor.

              Denialism is a merciless thing, it spares no one, even luminmans. Shenton to help you.
              1. +4
                April 4 2023 14: 00
                Quote: sergej_84
                Denialism is a merciless thing, spares no one, even luminman

                Try to stop writing nonsense - this will be a modest reward for me ..
                1. +3
                  April 4 2023 17: 25
                  this will be a modest reward for me..




                  this will be a modest reward for me..
  2. +8
    April 4 2023 04: 57
    "Everything is mixed up in the Oblonskys' house."
    So is this article.
    Started with knights and feudal society. Mixed capitalism and slavery. Contrasted socialism and imperialism. And what is the result?
    Shpakovsky with a "human face"?
    Are there clear boundaries in society?
    Who said they have to be?
    Yesterday you went to kindergarten, and today you went to school.
    It seems clear that at the age of 7 you were assigned to another "class".
    What has changed?
    What's in the place of the kindergarten school?
    At what age did you become a teenager? And how many boys?
    So is society.
    In Russia, capitalism again won, but socialism is also fully present.
    1. +6
      April 4 2023 05: 55
      Good morning Sasha hi good morning friends hi
      What a strange feeling from reading, something like deceived hopes. I read the first lines, rejoiced - this is the topic, then I forced myself to stop. I prepared myself coffee, an ashtray, savoring the forthcoming reading, ordered everyone not to be distracted. Started reading. I read it to the end .... and was left with a feeling of deep dissatisfaction and absolute misunderstanding of the essence of what was read. No offense to the respected author - some kind of complete vinaigrette turned out, everything that is possible is mixed.
      sorry for IMHO
      1. +3
        April 4 2023 06: 18
        I think that any article can be a starting point.

        Like the pages of a tear-off calendar.

        And if you want to combine coffee with a conversation, you are always welcome.

        Any thesis can be abandoned. And the interlocutors will pick up, adjusted for the mood and the availability of free time.
      2. +4
        April 4 2023 06: 33
        Quote: Richard
        everything that is possible is mixed.

        This is just the beginning Richard.
        1. +3
          April 4 2023 15: 24
          Quote: kalibr
          This is just the beginning Richard.

          Will it get worse next?
      3. +2
        April 4 2023 06: 40
        Quote: Richard
        Good morning Sasha hi good morning friends hi
        What a strange feeling from reading, something like deceived hopes. I read the first lines, rejoiced - this is the topic, then I forced myself to stop. I prepared myself coffee, an ashtray, savoring the forthcoming reading, ordered everyone not to be distracted. Started reading. I read it to the end .... and was left with a feeling of deep dissatisfaction and absolute misunderstanding of the essence of what was read. No offense to the respected author - some kind of complete vinaigrette turned out, everything that is possible is mixed.
        sorry for IMHO



        There is no need to look for any meaning in this. THE GREAT MENTOR descended to us with his new REVELATION. You just need to fall to this vessel of wisdom and enjoy. Then the interpreters of the truth will explain everything to us.
        1. 0
          April 4 2023 06: 52
          Does truth need interpreters?
          And in this Surat coffee shop, you can always chat, depending on which table you sit down at.
          1. +1
            April 4 2023 07: 01
            Good morning, Sergey! smile
            And in this Surat coffee house you can always chat,

            It's just that some people confuse a cozy coffee shop with a cheap beer house, its swearing and drunken scuffle. In principle, who is used to what and who likes what more. request

            Hello everyone, and thanks to Vyacheslav! smile
            1. +1
              April 4 2023 07: 18
              Good morning, Constantine!

              In many ways, we create our own social circle.

              And you can benefit from any conversation.

              Only in the tavern anything happens.



              In a Cape Town port with a hole in the side
              Jeanette was adjusting the rigging.
              But before you go on a long journey,
              The crew was released ashore.
              1. +1
                April 4 2023 07: 27
                "But the dispute in Cape Town
                Browning decides,"
                That's it!
                1. 0
                  April 4 2023 07: 48
                  In another version, "Mauser" decides what to do, the fruits of folk art, and "Parabellum", I suppose, did not invest in rhyme. laughing
                  1. +2
                    April 4 2023 07: 54
                    Good morning, Kostya!
                    I always knew that Browning, well, that's not the point.
                    Could be PM drinks
                    1. +2
                      April 4 2023 08: 28
                      PM in Cape Town is cool! "Yes, you, boy, are a Soviet spy!"laughing
                      1. +2
                        April 4 2023 08: 52
                        What we give out is what we use! Payroll, no matter how
                        drinks
                      2. +2
                        April 4 2023 09: 03
                        What we give out is what we use!
                        "And I thought: they gave out a bagpipe and spin as you want!")))
                      3. +2
                        April 4 2023 11: 50
                        Kostya, good health. Have you planted potatoes yet? I got about 3 boxes.
                        We don't have seeds. If you want, a good harvest, take imported potatoes, otherwise the "peas" will spoil
                      4. +2
                        April 4 2023 19: 53
                        What a potato, Slava! smile The garden is not yet godfather, the greenhouse is to be repaired after the winter, there is a lot of work. So it goes. smile request
                      5. +2
                        April 4 2023 21: 40
                        Quote: vladcub
                        Kostya, good health. Have you planted potatoes yet? I got about 3 boxes.
                        We don't have seeds. If you want, a good harvest, take imported potatoes, otherwise the "peas" will spoil

                        I still have snow, although it is exceptionally early spring in the Urals!!!
              2. +2
                April 4 2023 11: 44
                Sergey, "corsair" of good health. When I was a child, I heard somewhere about Janet, but I forgot. About twenty years ago, from a friend I heard about "Zhanet", something the sailors cut themselves on the forecastle. I didn't see the text anywhere.
                1. +4
                  April 4 2023 17: 25
                  Good afternoon, Glory!

                  There are different versions of the text. The song is playful, but there is something to think about.
          2. +1
            April 4 2023 07: 17
            Quote from Korsar4
            Does truth need interpreters?
            And in this Surat coffee shop, you can always chat, depending on which table you sit down at.


            I order only coffee with Spice in this coffee shop. Waiting for the next transporter from Arrakis to visit this establishment.
            1. +2
              April 4 2023 07: 30
              I haven't read Chronicles of Dune. Costs?

              But L. Tolstoy's "Circle of Reading" was caught in adolescence. And I liked a lot. I use.
              1. +4
                April 4 2023 07: 39
                Quote from Korsar4
                I haven't read Chronicles of Dune. Costs?


                "Dune" is the best fantasy novel of all time. The rest of the cycle - for an amateur. I re-read the last three from time to time.
                1. +2
                  April 4 2023 20: 13
                  Read. What would be the best? A story about a young man growing up in difficult conditions (plus spaceships). No more. In my opinion, an extremely intelligible banality from the book (the resource is owned by the one who can destroy it at any time).
          3. -1
            April 4 2023 10: 55
            Korsar4 (Sergey): Does truth need interpreters?

            Is not it so? There is such an expression - "Instruct on the true path"
            How is that? After all, truth is a purely individual concept. According to the classical definition:
            Truth is an adequate reflection of reality in consciousness.

            It turns out that in order for the truth to become collective, one needs either a collective consciousness or interpreters of what is considered truth.
            What do you say, Sergei?
            1. +3
              April 4 2023 17: 27
              There is a good movie "Don't Leave". And it has songs. Including truth and truth.

              Again, returning to the Surat Coffee House. Everyone sees different shades of essence, based on their experience and reading circle.
      4. +2
        April 4 2023 07: 00
        Good morning!
        1v1 and my perception of this article.
        One must have the talent to mix the knights, the slave Izaura and K. Marx in one article.
        1. +5
          April 4 2023 07: 16
          Quote: ee2100
          One must have the talent to mix the knights, the slave Izaura and K. Marx in one article.

          And I thought you were smart enough to figure out that it was not me who mixed it all up, but life. I just collected everything that she mixed and put it on public display. Didn't like the look, color and smell? Well, so what is natural is not at all ugly.
          1. +3
            April 4 2023 08: 20
            Quote: kalibr
            I just collected everything that she mixed and put it on public display. Didn't like the look, color and smell? Well, so what is natural is not at all ugly.


            That's what I respect you for, Vyacheslav Olegovich, for an honest and objective assessment of your own work. One must have the courage to admit this publicly.
            1. +3
              April 4 2023 08: 37
              Quote: sergo1914
              One must have the courage to admit this publicly.

              So after all this same truth, Sergei! I am good at popularizing - my popular books for children speak about this. There's a lot I just don't know. Although I know something very well. And VO helps me a lot - it increases the level of self-education, especially some comments. So why not write? I never liked people who pretend to be some kind of guru and puff out their cheeks.
      5. 0
        April 4 2023 07: 09
        My compliments, Dmitry!
        As can be seen from the preface, we ourselves provoked the author to this material.
      6. 0
        April 8 2023 14: 53
        Quote: Richard
        No offense to the respected author - some kind of complete vinaigrette turned out, everything that is possible is mixed.

        Forgive me, there is no desire to offend you, but did you really expect something else from this author?
        You see, the author, based on the realities of life, was forced to betray his beliefs, and in order to somehow explain and level his betrayal, he begins to convince us of the perniciousness of the ideology that he betrayed. And due to the fact that he lacks, or lacks, scientific training, he "beats" Marx with what (?) About horror, Isaura and an aunt blown away by the wind. This is to what "scientific" lowlands you have to go down to think of this.
        Once again I beg your pardon, but I can’t read Shpakovsky’s creations without laughter. hi
    2. +3
      April 4 2023 05: 57
      There are cycles in human life.
      In the life of countries - too. Although you can go to the "second round".

      And yet cycles are made up of harmonics. But here already let mathematicians correctly formulate.
      1. 0
        April 4 2023 09: 41
        There are cycles in human life.

        On the other hand, obsession is a trap. A sufficient number of relatively diverse and sometimes quite comfortable cycles leads to the fact that we stop using the mind - we stop looking for new solutions. And over time, we generally lose the ability to motivate ourselves to new solutions.
        1. +3
          April 4 2023 17: 28
          Trap. It is very difficult to get out of the cycles to a new level. You have to put in the effort.
    3. Fat
      +2
      April 4 2023 10: 25
      hi Greetings, Alexander.
      Quote: ee2100
      In Russia, capitalism again won, but socialism is also fully present.

      Here I agree completely. In the imperialist USA, the situation is approximately similar, the state has the ability to control "private traders", and private property has completely blurred forms. The case of Marx-Engels played its role. . It is worth recalling the Fabian Society, founded in London in 1884. Supporters of Fabianism believed that the transformation of capitalism into a socialist society should take place evolutionarily, peacefully, smoothly, gradually, slowly, as a result of gradual institutional transformations. Which of the "liberal stars" was in society, in general, is not important. But I wonder who sponsored it ...
      1. +5
        April 4 2023 11: 01
        Quote: Thick
        In the imperialist USA, the situation is approximately similar, the state has the ability to control "private traders"

        I'm afraid it's exactly the opposite. Corporations control the entire state apparatus, which acts solely in their interests. Yes, and we, in fact, things are a little better. Corporations are only smaller and the number of subjects of this "corporate law" is probably larger. Have not merged yet in complete ecstasy. But this is a matter of time and, I'm afraid, not for long.
        1. Fat
          +3
          April 4 2023 11: 49
          hi Greetings, Michael. Both in the US and we now have antitrust law designed to improve the conditions for the competition of enterprises.
          Starting with the Sherman Antitrust Act. This is just an attempt by Mr. institutions to control monopolies. In the USSR, the state acted as a monopolist, so if tariffs and prices increased, then certainly "at the numerous requests of the working people." Socialist (public) ownership of the means of production is an example of the most draconian-Jezuet bureaucratic monopoly. So in Russia, who "controls" whom is as simple as you outlined, it cannot be determined at all
        2. 0
          April 8 2023 14: 56
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          more. Have not merged yet in complete ecstasy. But this is a matter of time and, I'm afraid, not for long.

          Are you really afraid? Or is this fear in a positive sense?
    4. +4
      April 4 2023 11: 32
      "socialism is present", comrades, am I the only blind man that I don't see socialism?
  3. +5
    April 4 2023 05: 03
    Knightly armor was extremely expensive. Therefore, only rich people could have them. There could not have been many of them. If we judge by historical books, then we may have a misconception about the past. All of them differ in descriptions.
    1. +5
      April 4 2023 06: 36
      Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
      Knightly armor was extremely expensive.

      Made to order. The same Henry 8 at one time bought 3200 semi-armor in Antwerp for his infantry. Helmet, cuirass, legguards, bracers - there is no armor for the legs. But there is a half-knight. And 3200. And then I bought more and more ...
      1. +2
        April 4 2023 18: 54
        So, probably, he took Dutch loans. And he gave it not in cash, but in trade preferences? I guess it's hard to figure it out. Transactions were "long" in time. Even the largest trading houses closed their annual balance sheets with a delay of up to 10 years.
        1. +3
          April 4 2023 19: 05
          Quote: balabol
          And he gave not cash

          No, just alive. The documents have been preserved. Even the price is affixed. But I don't remember how much each cost.
          1. +2
            April 4 2023 20: 18
            He may have paid with coins, but taken on credit. Not from the treasury (vulgarly did not open his chest), but borrowed. The cost was certainly nominated in the contract in the current currency, but the gold was not physically transported. The promissory note was simply translated immediately. I mean that Heinrich repaid the debt later, and not in cash, but with some kind of rights. Somewhat later, for example, Peter the Great in England needed money and sold the monopoly on the sale of tobacco to the British. He received the money right there, and the creditors slowly "beat off" the costs in the framework of monopoly trade. Peter this money right there in England and spent on all sorts of useful things. Many military conflicts were conducted in this way. A loan was taken for an event, and it was given back with booty or trade rights in the newly acquired territories, there are many options.
            This is my guess. You need to understand the primary documents in order to approve 100%
    2. -1
      April 4 2023 06: 46
      Knightly armor was extremely expensive. Therefore, only rich people could have them.
      A vivid example of the case when a person does not understand what he is talking about. Colleague, in-line production of armor in Italy was mastered by the middle of the XNUMXth century, and a little later in Germany.
  4. +1
    April 4 2023 06: 29
    he never foresaw the advent of mobile electronic communications and industrial robots.
    Basically, it could. When would be more interested in technology than sociology. The Difference Engine was built by Charles Babbage when Marx was 4 years old.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. +3
      April 4 2023 08: 23
      he never foresaw the advent of mobile electronic communications and industrial robots.
      Basically, it could.

      Greetings Anton.
      But that doesn't change things at all.
      Capitalism, as they say in Russia, is capitalism with or without a smartphone. State. capitalism? Yes. But capitalism, where whoever has the most capital or who has been able to concentrate it, wins the competition.
      No proletariat, as in XNUMXth century Europe? No, but everything is built in relation around ownership. Whoever has the means of production and capital (!), on the one hand, who does not have it, on the other.
      "Small business" will either receive capital and become big or die, and so on in a circle: Valberis was a micro business 15 years ago, but he could have been covered with a copper basin, like thousands of delivery sites.
      But this does not change the essence of capitalism and the relationship around property. So it was in Holland at the end of the XNUMXth century, and so it was in Russia in the XNUMXst century.
      Marx was not mistaken for the XNUMXst century either. We have pure capitalism. The general and regular crisis of capitalism that we are witnessing is leading everything to the same as in some XNUMXth or XNUMXth century. to a war for cheap resources, cheap labor and markets. All according to Marx.
      Whether Marx was fond of sociology, and did not read Jules Verne does not change things, as well as inventions: under capitalism, they will be a means of increasing capital for some, creating a new sales market for some, and the subject of ruin for others - in search of a loan for an Iphone, which is not cancels its useful properties and progress caused by the fact that mass production improves life.
      But it does not change the essence of capitalism.
      hi
      1. +7
        April 4 2023 09: 39
        There is no proletariat, as in Europe in the XNUMXth century.

        One of the main features of capitalism at the end of the XNUMXth century is the introduction of absolute confusion into the concept of the proletariat. For, according to the classical definition, a proletarian is one who has no other sources of income other than selling his labor. Thus, the majority of those who are nonech enrolled in the creative class type are the golem proletarians. But now it has become extremely unfashionable to be a proletarian, therefore, they prefer to consider themselves like petty bourgeois, it is not clear on what grounds. Thus, dropping out of the organized struggle of the proletariat for their rights. What is undoubtedly a significant achievement of the ruling bourgeois class ..

        Also - the Marxist theory, for some reason frozen in place, does not answer another question of our time - what are the means of production now? Let's say a freelance coder's computer - is that it? After all, it seems like he uses it to produce a product in the form of software? So is he a proletarian on this occasion, or is he really already a type of small owner?

        And so - on many issues of our time .. And until the Marxist philosophers give answers to these questions - the labor movement will remain torn and helpless. Let's say such a well-known and respected figure as Popov continues to insist that the proletariat is still exclusively factory workers ..

        But why did Marx insist on this? Yes, for a simple reason - in conditions where the only medium of information was the printed word, it was the factory workers, working in huge close teams, who had a chance to organize and exchange opinions thanks to daily close communication. But now - the XXI century is in the yard, and we have the Internet! Allowing people to unite regardless of their location .. Then - is Marx's position still true?

        Iosif Vissarionovich did not say in vain that Marxism is a living doctrine, constantly developing as a result of changes in production, social and technological relations. And by no means a frozen type of scripture, each line of which is an unchanging dogma. But - alas, philosophers of the level of Marx and Lenin have not been seen yet.. I hope - this will not be for long, because there are problems in Marxism, and they must be solved. The sooner, the better.
        1. +7
          April 4 2023 09: 46
          Thus, the majority of those who are nonech enrolled in the creative class type are the golem proletarians.

          Agree
          1. Fat
            +4
            April 4 2023 13: 52
            hi Greetings, Edward.
            Quote: Edward Vashchenko
            Thus, the majority of those who are nonech enrolled in the creative class type are the golem proletarians.

            Agree

            The "creative class" has a "carrot" in the form of "intellectual property" with the prospect of becoming a capitalist... Yes
        2. +3
          April 4 2023 11: 31
          But now it has become extremely unfashionable to be a proletarian, therefore, they prefer to consider themselves like petty bourgeois,
          Having a mortgage around his neck, a car on credit and working in an office so that the surplus value of the owner becomes higher and calling himself a hipster or something else, he does not consider himself a proletarian. He thinks that he has everything, except for the chains of slavery, although everything is far from it, he has nothing but the chains of slavery. Since freedom is determined by the long chain on which you sit.
          1. +5
            April 4 2023 11: 57
            I was always amazed at the perception of the world by modern youngsters - some manager sitting in an office on a salary of 70 thousand, all in debt as if in silk, not really able to do a damn thing in life and trembling for his work, because he is not needed anywhere else - sincerely considers himself orders of magnitude steeper, let's say, the borer of the 6th category of Uncle Vasya, with a salary of under 200 thousand and behind whom - all the surrounding enterprises are in line. For he is an extremely valuable specialist who has taken place in life ..

            But Uncle Vasya is like a rabble and a plebeian, and stupid worthless manager Petya is like an advanced creative class ..

            No wonder Ivan Vasilyevich the Terrible wrote:With a squeaker I look at your generation".. belay laughing
            1. +2
              April 4 2023 12: 23
              But Uncle Vasya is like mob and plebeian,
              Unfortunately, there are fewer such uncles, more managers who are not aware of their class essence in the main. I myself am one of such managers and work among such managers and believe me, they are not aware of their class essence. "Where dullness triumphs, power always comes black." (c) And she triumphs in Russia.
            2. 0
              April 4 2023 19: 36
              Paul! The author of this text trampled you into "g @ inu", and you are trying to prove something to someone!
              "it did not work out, first of all, because ... well, a person is not familiar with historiography on this issue, both our Russian (and Soviet as well) and foreign."
              Previously, on this resource they wrote more "Learn the materiel"
              Or am I missing something, is this not about you?
              Success in your personal life!
            3. ANB
              0
              April 6 2023 01: 44
              . But Uncle Vasya is like a rabble and a plebeian, and stupid worthless manager Petya is like an advanced creative class ..

              I sit in the office, or rather at home. The salary is more than that of Vasya's daughter. I consider myself a proletarian. I respect hard workers, I don't like managers. So it's a little more complicated.
      2. -1
        April 4 2023 10: 15
        Hello Edward!
        Yes, I am an apologist for the theory of catastrophes in the periodization of history!
        )))
        And Roger Bacon also wrote about NTR ...
  5. Des
    +7
    April 4 2023 06: 41
    Of course, the author can and does write "readable" articles, professional, literate. Unlike, by the way, from popular mnogostanochnikov) here. This article is almost a provocation (in principle, not surprising)). We look forward to continuing.
  6. +4
    April 4 2023 07: 05
    We don’t play cards and there’s no need to distort ..

    It is no coincidence that Lenin wrote The Development of Capitalism in Russia only in 1899. And he proved that capitalism still exists in Russia. And not just a bunch of thieves and bandits .... . We read books, sir .... and we don’t need to suck in nonsense.

    In general, it is time for the authors to free themselves from semi-literate interpretation. "... isms". Like primers written by bars for the peasants. With a presentation of "how to live, then give you a blue-footed mind"

    Social "... isms" are movements in the popular strata. Bourgeois, workers, patriotic, feminine, etc. A nation begins only with these "...isms", and as long as there are none, only revolt is possible among the people. Wild, merciless, senseless.

    The works of Marx, Engels, for example, are a theoretical exposition of the labor movement, called the word "communism" in the West of the 19th century. Understanding the experience and meaning of the revolutions that were made by people who did not know Marx or Engels ....

    The slogan "All power to the Soviet" was invented by the Communards of Paris in 1871 not because they were very strong in theory. On the contrary, everything came into theory from their practice.

    Any theory differs from utopia in that it relies on the practice of "isms" - social movements.

    Guys! And let's first put things in order in our head, and will we refute the basics somehow later?
    1. +2
      April 4 2023 08: 01
      Guys! And let's first put things in order in our head, and will we refute the basics somehow later?

      These are interconnected things, because where there is no logic - all "isms" cause rejection, but without "isms" or understanding that there are causal relationships in everything, logic cannot arise.
      Vicious circle.
      1. +4
        April 4 2023 10: 24
        I do not understand why the vicious circle. There is the practice of social movements. It has a theoretical meaning. It can improve your practice. And so on .... This is a movement, development ....
        In Russia, it’s just hard to deal with the original practice

        This cunning V. Vysotsky came up with the idea that "there are no leaders." There are leaders and experts in politics. It's just that no one will follow them.

        Even Leo Tolstoy said: "If Christ came to the Russian village, no one would crucify him. Just the girls would laugh at him and the men would push him out"
      2. +3
        April 4 2023 10: 41
        Because humanity in general, and modern in particular, is not very prone to long, hard thoughts .. For they distract from pleasures, require considerable effort, and in general - bring confusion to life .. That's why - everyone is craving for some kind of Holy Scriptures, that is - clear and detailed instructions on how to behave and how to perceive the world around. In order not to stress yourself..

        That is why the Bolsheviks were so desperately engaged in the education and enlightenment of the people - to build communism, highly advanced people are needed who are able to comprehend what is happening themselves and, as a result, self-govern. Without them, communism is basically impossible.

        And that is precisely why the bourgeoisie fool the people in the modern education system, introducing all sorts of USE - that's exactly what they need highly intelligent people exclusively in their environment. For the rest, the Holy Scriptures in one form or another are sufficient.

        And the inclination of very many to the mentioned -isms is from the same opera. No need to think - I opened the instructions you needed, and everything is written there. The main thing is to put everything on convenient shelves .. But - this way you won’t get into communism ..
    2. +5
      April 4 2023 10: 46
      I think - we all remember the flags of the Soviet era, with three profiles of the founders? So, I propose not to deviate from traditions, and also place three profiles on the banner that will proudly fly over the New Wonderful World:

      - Matroskin's cat, as the author of the most integral and sane economic theory .. "To sell something unnecessary, you must first buy something unnecessary, and we have no money."(c)
      - the old woman Shapoklyak, as the author of the concept of bourgeois relations closest to life realities .. "Whoever helps people is wasting time, you can’t become famous for good deeds"(c)
      - Viktor Stepanovich Chernomyrdin, as the author of the most reasonable and intelligible explanation of how the world has come to all this .. "We wanted the best, but it turned out as always"(c)
      1. +1
        April 4 2023 11: 14
        Quote: paul3390
        So, I propose not to deviate from traditions, and on the banner that will proudly fly over the New Wonderful World, also place three profiles

        You are smart, Pavel!
        1. -1
          April 4 2023 11: 27
          Thanks, I will try.. feel drinks

          Alas - according to the administration, I'm too dumb to write a useful comment .. crying
      2. +2
        April 4 2023 19: 33
        Good. Although you can notice Chernomyrdin, for example, with his horse Julius.

        He's still an asshole.

        But it can wean from lotteries. By your example.
      3. +2
        April 4 2023 19: 50
        You can also Mishka Gorbachev:
        "Now it's clear where the dog rummaged!" (C)
        1. +1
          April 4 2023 20: 47
          No. Out of tone.

          And the next row would start with Popandopulo.
  7. +4
    April 4 2023 07: 15
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you for starting the discussion.
    But I’ll revive, without “isms” it’s not a story with cause-and-effect relationships and certain patterns, but a mess, where both Mithridates IV and Peter I are kings who act according to their own wishes, in a vacuum. Although it is written in school textbooks that any new system is formed in the bowels of another, and for a long time, in the sphere of various FACTORS, remnants of the past remain. "Clan" as a system of society goes from tribal society to the end of feudalism. But this does not change the situation that feudalism is not built on a tribal basis.
    The same goes for slavery in the US. With the development of capitalist relations, slavery arose for Africans as "living machines". To increase the "initial" and subsequent capital. Under capitalism, if slavery is needed to increase capital, it will be, they say about “digital slavery”. And there are no mysteries and oppositions to "isms" here.
    Just like in the 1918th century. was pure feudalism and the "dictatorship of the nobility", with serfdom as a form of exploitation of the second class - the peasants. The opinion of one of the historians that the nobles were "enslaved" is opposed by a huge historiography that believes that this was not the case: the "enslaved" are good, who hijacked more tsars than the Bolsheviks in XNUMX.
    Russian feudalism of the XVIII century. - this is the same European, but with a lag of 4-5 centuries. But even in it one can find both the sprouts of capitalism and the remnants of the neighboring-territorial system - the community.
    So without isms, if we want a causal relationship, and not a history a la Karamzin of the early XNUMXth century, where kings and princes do everything, who woke up in the morning and decided so.
    1. +2
      April 4 2023 07: 38
      Good morning Edward!
      "Isms" are like milestones in history. They are naturally quite conditional, but without them it is impossible.
      And feudal relations are present in our society and slavery and not only digital.
      And the picture that the author put up at the beginning of the article is our past-future.
      1. +4
        April 4 2023 08: 27
        Quote: ee2100
        And feudal relations are present in our society and slavery and not only digital.

        Good afternoon, Alexander!
        Of course, in any society, even in a microscopic version, there are relations of production that are different from the dominant ones, which in Marxism is called the socio-economic structure.
        The concept of the socio-economic structure has been developed quite thoroughly, let's look at its basic provisions:
        The socio-economic structure (system of social production, social economy) is an integral system of production relations of a certain type, which forms the social form of production.

        The socio-economic system of a particular society may include one or several structures. In a multistructural society, one mode, as a rule, is dominant, dominant. Combining and subordinating all other structures, it determines the nature of the socio-economic structure of society as a whole, and thus its belonging to a certain socio-economic formation. In this sense, the dominant way of life serves as the basis, the foundation of society as a whole.
        The way of life that prevails in a given epoch in a certain social organism can become subordinate in the process of further development, and, conversely, a subordinate way of life can turn into a dominant one.

        And as you rightly noted, in the modern society of imperialist capitalism we can quite find almost all ways of life, up to slavery. hi
        1. 0
          April 4 2023 08: 57
          Good morning, Sergey!
          If these rare phenomena are viewed under a microscope, they can be inflated to gigantic proportions. And make this a problem of universal scale, which is what the propaganda of all countries is doing.
    2. 0
      April 4 2023 08: 17
      and porridge, where both Mithridates IV and Peter I are kings who act according to their Wishlist, in a vacuum.

      The school history curriculum is such a mess. For some reason, we associate domestic history with European and world history only in the case of wars with other states. Even the "predecessor" of the Third Rome is rarely used in historical materials, only as a co-religious source, and this is one of the closest neighbors. And the fact that the wife of Vladimir Monomakh was the daughter of the Anglo-Saxon King of England Harold II and perhaps she was the mother of Yuri Dolgoruky. And the son-in-law of Yaroslav the Wise tried to move Harold from the throne, we bypass this at school. But we study William the Conqueror, and the fact that he conquered England due to the fact that the son-in-law of Yaroslav the Wise Harold the Severe died, but greatly thinned out the army of Harold Godwinson, depriving him of his cavalry, which determined the victory of William.
      As a result, Ukraine began to privatize and interpret the history of Rus. Maybe it's time to forget the dogmas of the court historian Karamzin and begin to objectively consider the historical development of the country as one of the states of the world, and not as the navel of the earth in the form of the Romanov dynasty.
      Well, Mithridates IV, try to find something about his relationship with the Sarmatians, who professed Mithraism, which was adopted by the Roman legions.
      1. +5
        April 4 2023 08: 25
        Quote: Konnick
        For some reason, we associate domestic history with European and world history only in the case of wars with other states.

        Dear Nikolay! I saw old pre-war history textbooks, where Russia and the West were studied in parallel. But then for some reason it was abandoned. Too bad I didn't save any. Everything has gone to waste paper!
      2. +3
        April 4 2023 08: 35
        But we study William the Conqueror, and the fact that he conquered England due to the fact that the son-in-law of Yaroslav the Wise Harold the Severe died, but greatly thinned out the army of Harold Godwinson, depriving him of his cavalry, which determined the victory of William.

        It does not change the matter in any way if it is included in the school textbook.
        You might even think that King Harold of Norway thinned out the troops of King Harold just because he is the son-in-law of Yaroslav the Wise? And if you weren’t a son-in-law, then it didn’t work out? And why did he die too?
        And why did he fight in Italy?
        I'm not trolling, I'm just showing relationships. hi
        Also and about Mithraism among the Sarmatians and about Mithridates IV, more like "the elderberry in the garden, and the uncle in Kyiv."
        The current textbooks have the same hodgepodge, so your suggestions will only strengthen it, and not lead to logical constructions in cause-and-effect relationships. hi
        1. +1
          April 4 2023 09: 48
          You might even think that King Harold of Norway thinned out the troops of King Harold just because he is the son-in-law of Yaroslav the Wise? And if you weren’t a son-in-law, then it didn’t work out? And why did he die too?

          HM interesting. what I did not know that the murdered Harald was really the son-in-law of Yaroslav the Wise. And the daughter of the murdered Harold (Gita of Wessex) became the wife of Vladimir Monomakh, the grandson of Yaroslav the Wise. Solid dynastic ties! fellow
          1. +4
            April 4 2023 10: 14
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            I did not know that the murdered Harald was really the son-in-law of Yaroslav the Wise.

            But what about "You are my star, Yaroslavna"?
            Harald sits in the battle saddle,
            He left Kiev sovereign,
            He sighs his way hard:
            “You are my star, Yaroslavna!
            ...
            And glory gained in a long struggle
            And my most sovereign crown,
            And everything that I owe to fate -
            All that I got only for your vein,
            You are my star, Yaroslavna!

            Or this:
            We, friends, flew over stormy seas.
            From the dear motherland they flew far!
            On land, at sea, we fought fiercely:
            Both sea and land obey us!
            Oh others! how the heart of the brave boiled.
            When we, having pushed ships against the wall,
            Like birds, they rushed along the merry village
            Around the pastures of the fat Sikan land! ..
            And the Russian maiden Haralda despises.

            In general, the dynastic ties of Russian princes with Europe are a separate issue and, I will tell you, very interesting and fascinating.
            1. +2
              April 4 2023 10: 56
              In general, the dynastic ties of Russian princes with Europe are a separate issue and, I will tell you, very interesting and fascinating.

              I got what you mean. hi Even with the wife of Yaroslav the Wise.
              1. +2
                April 4 2023 12: 17
                Yes, even since the time of Rurik. smile
                Here, for example, Prince Yaropolk Izyaslavich is the first who came to my mind.
                Let's see who his ancestors were, just for fun. smile
                Father: Izyaslav Yaroslavich. Mother: Gertrude Polskaya
                Grandfathers: Yaroslav the Wise and Mieszko II Lambert from the Piast dynasty
                Grandmothers: Ingigerda of Sweden and Ryksa of Lorraine
                He himself is married to Kunigunde of Orlamund, daughter of Otto of Weimar and Adella of Brabant.
                Question: which of the European rulers was not a relative of Yaropolk's son Yaroslav, given that his three aunts were the wives of the Hungarian, French and Norwegian kings?
                laughing
                1. +2
                  April 4 2023 12: 39
                  Question: which of the European rulers was not a relative of Yaropolk's son Yaroslav, given that his three aunts were the wives of the Hungarian, French and Norwegian kings?

                  Some kind of "late Romanov" is obtained. After Peter III, they did not add Russian blood at all, only German. And half the rulers of the world are "good cousins".laughing I was thinking, how much Swedish blood is in the Bernadotte kings? It seems that it does not exist at all from the word "absolutely". request
        2. +2
          April 4 2023 14: 07
          In current textbooks, the same mess, so your suggestions will only strengthen it, and will not lead to logical constructions in cause-and-effect relationships

          I wanted to say that there is no need to divide the teaching of history separately, ours in isolation from the world. Just study world history chronologically, and not as the logistics of the Romanovs. The history of Russia is inseparable from the world and to study, for example, the history of the Middle Ages in one subject, and not by dividing it into domestic and foreign ..
    3. +3
      April 4 2023 08: 22
      Good morning, dear Edward! I wanted "from you" and this time to pull out a quote for the second article, but something did not work, although what you wrote was "very good". Thought about it and finally found one phrase! I think you won't mind. I don't change anything in them.
      1. +3
        April 4 2023 08: 28
        I wanted "from you" and this time to pull out a quote for the second article, but something did not work, although what you wrote was "very good".

        AAAAA! Did not know good
  8. +6
    April 4 2023 07: 28
    Karl Marx was not just an economist. "isms" for him stem from a systematic analysis of the productive forces and production relations, since he believed that the economy is the basis of human society.
    1. +2
      April 4 2023 08: 29
      Do you know Victor that Marx himself had 6 formations, but his followers of the Marxists from the USSR had only 5. Whose analysis was more systematic, can you say?
      1. +3
        April 4 2023 08: 49
        Quote: kalibr
        Do you know Victor that Marx himself had 6 formations,

        Do you mean the Asian way of production?
        1. +4
          April 4 2023 10: 33
          Quote: Mihaylov
          Do you mean the Asian way of production?

          Конечно.
      2. -1
        April 4 2023 11: 16
        Quote: kalibr
        Do you know Victor that Marx himself had 6 formations, but his followers of the Marxists from the USSR had only 5. Whose analysis was more systematic, can you say?

        Marx was based on the practice of the West, and our "Marxists" - on what can be pulled from Marx and so as not to anger their bosses.

        Lenin, for example, wrote about a state without a ruling class, but no one read it. There was no time. All with banners walked the streets.
      3. +3
        April 4 2023 15: 28
        Because when analyzing the productive forces and production relations, the sixth formation stood out. I did not study it, but systematically identified it.
        And he approved 5 formations in the form of Struve's dogma after the discussion of the 30s.
        It is not necessary to establish "isms" dogmatically. It is necessary to recognize them through their properties. Like, for example, Marx through the productive forces and production relations.
  9. -1
    April 4 2023 07: 50
    which he completed in 991 year, and began to write, of course, much earlier.

    I could not resist, so as not to taunt the historian laughing
    And on the topic - I read it with a few awesomeness, and the very formulation of the question from the author of the topic is absolutely not clear to me: what kind of system and why were there signs of another ... Yes, simply because this division, like any division, is artificial! Natural - for example, 1 proton means hydrogen, two - already helium, but one and a half does not happen in principle. The color "green" is already an artificial division, 495-570 nm is a wavelength, and a wave of 571 nm will be green for the vast majority of expert observers!
    After all, this is the same thing as with biological species, and if there are at least some objective criteria in biology, one species gives fertile offspring with its own and does not give exactly fertile offspring - with others. But you can not put an end to time, May 25, they say, 5000 BC. On May 24 this species was absent, on May 25 a pair of wolves had their first dog. This is complete crap biologically - a dog will not appear in a wolf and it stupidly has no one to breed with, therefore everything is approximately like this - it's just that in the population of wolf-dogs they are more wolves, but plus or minus three centuries - more to dogs, we cross out wolf-dogs, there will be wolves and dogs.
    So in history, where genetically the feudal lord does not differ from the slave owner, it cannot be said - until 11 in the morning he was the slave owner, and since then forever the feudal lord, and the system has become feudalism. Accuracy, plus or minus half a lap on the map, and features inherent even in the primitive community and now in society there are for sure.
    What surprises the historian, or has history succumbed to the natural sciences?!
    1. 0
      April 4 2023 07: 54
      Alas, even with views it is not so simple. For example, currant with gooseberry gives a hybrid. Yoshta is called.
      1. -1
        April 4 2023 08: 13
        I don’t know this one, but I’m sure it’s not a species) Ligers also run from lions with tigers or well-known mules, only they are sterile, and the definition is completely with the formation of fertile offspring.
        Gu, I read about food, well, the process of artificial formation of a new kind
        The first experiments were undertaken by I. V. Michurin, who developed the theory of crossing distant forms of plants, in particular, currants and gooseberries. But hundreds of attempts by breeders from different countries did not lead to success: hybrids either turned out to be unviable or sterile.

        CROSSING of closely related species with the formation of a new species is practically the same as what happens in the wild, only the selection is artificial, and the species is already new. The one that reproduces. In theory, the fact that seeds did not multiply was also called Yoshta. Because the division is artificial)
        So everything is right - either a hybrid without offspring, or already a new one - a species. You can’t poke a finger, this is yoshta, this is not yoshta. We have not yet agreed that yoshtoi should be considered only that which reproduces steadily, or that which itself has sprouted and the seeds are not viable, but can you eat it?
        1. 0
          April 4 2023 08: 30
          And you look on the other side. If gooseberries and black currants are crossed, these are different species or one.

          And how European spruce and Siberian spruce interbreed.

          And with larches in general, try to figure it out.

          Very difficult with the criteria.

          Although, in general, I fully share Buffon's position.
          1. -1
            April 4 2023 08: 56
            Quote from Korsar4
            If gooseberries and black currants are crossed, these are different species or one.

            Did you read the quote? Crossbreed. and offspring are sterile. Or the hybrid itself is not viable. So there are different types.
            But here again, the classification is artificial. If you take 10 bushes of both and cross them, after a while you will get viable offspring. The combinatorial factor of chromosomes and the same, for example, mutations play. But in general, with the accuracy of half a lap on the map - massively the black currant and the wide-legged currant (gooseberry) - do not interbreed with the formation of fertile offspring.
            The classification is artificial. But in general, they either do not interbreed, or the offspring is bent, or the offspring is sterile. And only when the coin hangs in the air - then, sir ... But this can be neglected. And they are neglected. As I say, the species is an artificial classification. But in the absence of a better one, we use this one.
            In general, you gave an unsuccessful example, I just so as not to confuse you further. There are no species at all, these are artificially bred VARIETIES, they are not genetically fixed and outside of human influence - they are not viable, have you heard the term "wild animals"? That's it, a couple of generations - and kranty
            1. +2
              April 4 2023 11: 38
              Yoshta can reproduce by seeds.
              Finnish spruce - generally around us.
            2. +1
              April 4 2023 14: 12
              But in general, with the accuracy of half a lap on the map - massively the black currant and the wide-legged currant (gooseberry) - do not interbreed with the formation of fertile offspring.

              Michurin did not know about this, otherwise he would not have crossed bird cherry and cherry, but mountain ash with hawthorn laughing
              1. -2
                April 4 2023 14: 26
                Quote: Konnick
                Michurin did not know about this, otherwise he would not have crossed bird cherry and cherry, but mountain ash with hawthorn

                Did you even read what I wrote? Apparently not. Do you see the word en masse? Read slowly, moving your finger, maybe you will understand.
                Quote from Korsar4
                Yoshta can reproduce by seeds.

                Pedovikia claims that an unstable hybrid is also yoshta, one that does not reproduce, and if you cross a gooseberry with a currant tassel in the country, you will get a 90% probability that does not reproduce by seeds
  10. +2
    April 4 2023 08: 43
    Mihaylov (Mihaylov). By the way, why not scrape together for feudalism, say, in Mycenaean society? There is not even semi-feudalism, but quite a feudal system is obtained.

    I believe that everyone understood that this was an irony, the purpose of which was to show that based on a small number of external similarities, far-reaching conclusions are fundamentally wrong. Initially, I wanted to justify "the existence of feudalism among the Neanderthals", but decided that it would be too much, although this can also be done if desired.
    As for the discussion about the land allotment issued for military service, I will speak about this again:
    As, in my opinion, Eduard Vashchenko rightly wrote:
    The issuance of land for service, or the right to collect income - this methodologically is not feudalism.

    In a traditional agricultural society, the basis for the existence of this society itself is income from the land, including the existence of the military, the army (whatever it is called) is also carried out exclusively from land plots, therefore, in almost any such society, in all eras, we are to one degree or another find the dependence of the existence of a military man on the land allotment. hi
    1. Fat
      +3
      April 4 2023 11: 07
      hi Greetings, Sergey.
      Quote: Mihaylov
      In a traditional agricultural society, the basis for the existence of this society itself is income from the land, including the existence of the military, the army (whatever it is called) is also carried out exclusively from land plots, therefore, in almost any such society, in all eras, we are to one degree or another find the dependence of the existence of a military man on the land allotment.

      The history of civilizations can present amazing surprises request
      Among the people of the long house (Iroquois), the inheritance of land and the tools for their processing occurred exclusively through the female line, formally (and completely informally in "economic and political terms") the eldest of the women led the tribe. Iroquois men were completely free in terms of production, being engaged in hunting, trade and "foreign policy" - wars. That is why, while waging wars, the Iroquois genocide under the root of all those capable of carrying weapons in the enemy tribal association, and the rest were assimilated along with property-property ...
      1. +2
        April 4 2023 11: 22
        Quote: Thick
        Among the people of the long house (Iroquois), the inheritance of land and tools for their processing occurred exclusively through the female line,

        Good afternoon, as far as I remember, they had matrilineality and matrilocality, and their society was still purely tribal and mostly with an appropriating economy, that is, hunter-gatherers (which the men actually did), to be honest, I don’t remember about their agricultural activities : perhaps partially already present. hi
        1. +4
          April 4 2023 11: 45
          GOOD AFTERNOON!
          Good afternoon, as far as I remember, they had matrilineality and matrilocality, and their society was still purely tribal and mostly with an appropriating economy, that is, hunter-gatherers (which the men actually did), to be honest, I don’t remember about their agricultural activities : perhaps partially already present.

          Yes, some Indians worked the land before the arrival of the whites. The Iroquois are back on the hunt.
          But inheritance doesn't change the attitude to what kind of society it is, and it, among the Iroquois, is between a tribal and a territorial community.
          hi
          1. Fat
            +4
            April 4 2023 17: 03
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            The Iroquois are back on the hunt.

            The Iroquois turned to trade, as "intermediaries" between the colonists and other tribal associations. They never gave up hunting, the men of the longhouse simply have nothing else to do, well, except perhaps for "ritual dances." "Idlers"))
            hi With respect.
        2. Fat
          +3
          April 4 2023 12: 02
          Come on. These are the same "three sisters" in the Indian CX. The people of the long house were quite sedentary precisely because they knew the price of land as the main means of production.
  11. +1
    April 4 2023 08: 45
    Under Khrushchev, the nationalization of the economy reached its maximum, although market relations persisted between ... economic councils!

    Moreover, economic councils were practically states with their own economies as part of the country. Khrushchev almost achieved fragmentation of the economy by destroying the normal division of labor in individual industries. Let me explain using the example of the construction of foundries, the so-called "Centrolites", such as each economic council should have its own foundry and do not care that coke had to be brought to Ryazan or Saransk, belonging to different economic councils, from the Donbass, pig iron from the Urals, and electricity for electric furnaces to receive from the Volga Economic Council, the profitability of such plants was minus. Because of this and many other reasons for the unscientific, "voluntaristic" policy of the idiot, our economy collapsed with factories distributed among Khrushchev's economic councils, trying to enter the market, which turned out to be a bazaar.

    And what a service Chubais rendered to Russia by eliminating uniform tariffs for electricity, because of this market decision, trains began to go around some regions due to different market tariffs for traction electricity, as a result, railway transportation became more expensive than motor transport.
  12. +4
    April 4 2023 08: 56
    Entertainment tournaments of the feudal nobility took place until the end of the XNUMXth century. When the capitalist pressure finally put an end to feudalism, not only in Holland, but also in England. Dresden Armory. Author's photo

    Vyacheslav Olegovich,
    not according to "isms". Here, in the photo, horse blankets are embarrassing, the rider and the horse's equipment do not match. In the XVI century. such blankets were not used, this is the period of the XIV century.
    What is the signature in the museum?
    Thank you. hi
    1. +4
      April 4 2023 10: 32
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      In the XVI century. such blankets were not used, this is the period of the XIV century.

      Used, dear Edward, still used. This is a tournament vestment. Pay attention to the armor for the leg - longer, this is definitely an invention of the 16th century. You can refer to my articles about tournaments here on VO, there are not only my photos, but also illustrations from books of that time.
    2. +3
      April 4 2023 11: 18
      Here is another picture

      This is Henry 8 at the tournament in Westminster. And this is the XNUMXth century. And ... a heraldic blanket on a horse up to his feet!
  13. +5
    April 4 2023 09: 10
    I saw in the article attacks on the old Marx, they say he was mistaken, underestimated, confused ... smile
    In my opinion, Vyacheslav Olegovich, with all due respect to him, in this case thinks in terms of the past. That same Soviet past, when Marxism was elevated to a dogma, and Marx's theory became a kind of Bible, turned out to be beyond criticism and, as a result, remained without development and instantly became outdated. It is these obsolete dogmas that the author criticizes.
    To be honest, I do not follow modern theoretical research in the field of Marxism, the theory of formations and class struggle. But it would certainly be interesting to get acquainted with them, to find out what the state of Marx's teaching is now. I am sure that I would have learned a lot of interesting things.
    In the modern Russian state, the teachings of Marx are unlikely to be held in high esteem. It is more profitable for the current government to promote something spiritual and patriotic than to explain to the population the goals and meaning of the class struggle, therefore, through federal channels or in bookstores, YouTube tops and other media, we are unlikely to hear anything sensible. But for sure it is sensible and it can be found and read.
    Well, the fact that somewhere something is mixed up, mixed up and does not quite fit into the rigid dogmatic framework of Marxism of the times of the Soviet Union, formed by Lenin more than a hundred years ago - this is not surprising. Although even now the theory of formations in general remains true (yes, yes, I know that the devil is in the details), and the class struggle, albeit in a slightly different form, remains the only engine of progress and is a real nightmare for modern capitalism, the time of which , in my opinion, has come to an end.
    Marx could not have foreseen the advent of robots and iPhones. But he didn't need it. He said that with the growth of labor efficiency, its productivity (and what else are robots and iPhones, if not tools that ensure this growth?), Society will inevitably transform from capitalist to communist.
    1. 0
      April 4 2023 10: 08
      society is inevitably transformed from capitalist to communist.

      By itself, without the active struggle of the proletariat, society will not transform into a communist one .. Rather, it will spiral into the next round - let's call it digital neo-feudalism ..

      For what is the main goal of any owner? Yes, to transfer the accumulated and looted by inheritance, of course! But just capitalism - this does not guarantee .. For everything - will depend solely on the talents of the heir - will turn out to be a sucker, so they will devour it right there. And this is extremely insulting - as you understand, he stole in the sweat of his face, and his grandchildren are still beggars ..

      And how can this be avoided? Of course, by fixing the property into inalienable property. And this is already naked feudalism, because there is no other way to achieve this. And we have been hearing the first bells of such aspirations of the ruling class for a long time .. So ..

      Well - plus, of course, I would very much like to somehow avoid the free flow of labor, especially highly skilled. Well, who needs to spend money and efforts to attract it? Isn't it easier to stupidly attach it to your enterprise by law? Nice job - that's what it's all about.
      1. +2
        April 4 2023 11: 36
        We need a new theoretician of Marxism. To deal with this issue? And then I'm all in my Middle Ages ... smile
        But the theorist is really needed. Practice will come after him. And they will lead the proletarians, including those of intellectual labor, "to a bloody battle, holy and right." Now, if I'm ironic, then just a little. smile
        From the position in which the proletariat finds itself in the developed capitalist countries (including Russia), that is, all people who live exclusively by their own labor, without the involvement of hired labor, to raise this very proletariat to an open struggle against capitalism, in my opinion , impossible. They are cunning, the dogs are cops, with their approachers - they don’t forget the bone in time to whom they need to throw and propaganda is all in their hands ...
        There is a chance that the crisis of capitalism will eventually lead to the dominance of socialist China on the planet. Everything is better than the USA, as it is now, but somehow it's a shame ...
        If I were to approve the strategy of the struggle of the proletariat, I would direct my main efforts to taking control of the entertainment industry. Honestly, this is the most promising sector of the national economy and at the same time affordable and democratic. People love to have fun and try not to deny themselves this, and this should be used by imposing the necessary ideas through entertaining content.
        1. -1
          April 4 2023 11: 41
          We need a new theoretician of Marxism. To deal with this issue?

          Maybe it's worth joining forces? what For one head is good - but two boots are still a pair .. wink

          The thing is that capitalism, horrified by its fate at the sight of Soviet power, managed to dodge and adapt .. And the theory of Marxism has not yet managed to adapt to capitalism that has adapted to it. That's the problem with modernity.

          However - I think that now, after the temporary rollback of socialism - the bourgeoisie will discard all this tinsel and everything will return to normal. They have nothing more to fear - what's the point then to hide their essence? Moreover, this disguise cost them a fair amount of money ..

          I would focus my main efforts on taking control of the entertainment industry

          Ilyich did not say in vain that cinema and the circus are the most important arts for us .. wink laughing
          1. +3
            April 4 2023 12: 32
            There is something in your words... attractive. smile
            Quote: paul3390
            the bourgeois will discard all this tinsel

            They won't drop it. Their successful China is now a bone in their throat. There is no way to relax. Yes, and it won't.
            Quote: paul3390
            cinema and circus are the most important arts for us

            In the beginning was
            in an age of illiteracy...
        2. +3
          April 4 2023 11: 54
          to rouse this same proletariat to an open struggle against capitalism,
          Will the theorist also feed me?
          It was good for Marx, he had Engels for these purposes.
          1. +4
            April 4 2023 12: 53
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Will the theorist also feed me?

            I'm saying it won't work. In order for the conditional Anton to rise to the fight, one of two conditions is needed: either he has nothing to eat, or he has a lot to eat, but nothing to do. While Anton is not starving, but is forced to work constantly for the sake of food, it is useless to talk to him about the revolution.
    2. +5
      April 4 2023 11: 33
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Although even now the theory of formations in general remains true

      Good afternoon Mikhail,
      I also wanted to speak out on this matter, but after reading your post, I decided to just join it.
      I will just add that if we perceive the theory of socio-economic formations in a more modern form as a kind of ideal model that does not occur in nature in its pure form or almost does not occur, then it is worth recognizing it as absolutely working and I see no point in abandoning it. hi
      1. +4
        April 4 2023 12: 27
        Greetings, Sergey.
        Quote: paul3390
        Maybe it's worth joining forces?

        Quote: Mihaylov
        decided to just join him.

        Is it not time for us to organize a circle of Marxists, as in the good old days of a century and a half ago? Eduard, it seems to me, is also ready to connect ... Maybe more comrades will catch up ...
        A spark will ignite a flame...
        1. +3
          April 4 2023 12: 51
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Is it not time for us to organize a circle of Marxists, as in the good old days of a century and a half ago?

          I AM FOR!
          It seems to me that now all over the world Marxism is being revived, naturally in a more modern form, and that "idealistic nonsense" that we have been stuffed with since the 90s turned out to be empty.
          PS interesting that Wallerstein, one of the main author of the fashionable concept of "world-system" defines himself as a Marxist. hi
        2. -2
          April 4 2023 13: 37
          Isn't it time for us to organize a circle of Marxists

          However, a platform for discussion is needed .. what Any thoughts? what
      2. +2
        April 4 2023 12: 43
        ideal model, which in its pure form does not occur in nature or almost does not occur, then it is worth recognizing it as absolutely working and I see no point in abandoning it.

        Wait, if the model is not found in its pure form, then can it describe the phenomena of the real world and serve as the basis for forecasts?
        1. +5
          April 4 2023 13: 03
          Quote: Engineer
          Wait, if the model is not found in its pure form, then can it describe the phenomena of the real world and serve as the basis for forecasts?

          The concept of an ideal model is quite normal for science, but I did not say anything about forecasts.
          1. +4
            April 4 2023 13: 11
            normal for science. What about practical applicability? The ideal gas model is applicable and allows predictions to be made.
            What is the need for the EEF now? Where is her niche?
        2. Fat
          +4
          April 4 2023 13: 13
          hi Greetings, Denis.
          Quote: Engineer
          Wait, if the model is not found in its pure form, then can it describe the phenomena of the real world and serve as the basis for forecasts?

          I think that in the "ideal" situation it can. Like "classical thermodynamics" with an ideal gas. smile
          Marx's theory is probabilistic. The specificity of statistical patterns inherent in a certain type of socio-economic formation is manifested and classified.
          If we dig deeper, we will inevitably come to a "quantum" understanding of the model of society, where only probabilities will be used.
          Forgive me for the stupidly "mechanistic" approach to "system modeling" laughing
          1. +3
            April 4 2023 13: 20
            And what is the probability of Marx's theory?
            The change of the OEF is immutable and inevitable. The aggravation of the class struggle is XNUMX%.
            Everywhere postulates and axioms.
            1. Fat
              +5
              April 4 2023 13: 39
              Everywhere only postulates. An axiom is also a postulate, only accepted "for trust"
              When there are noticeable "fluctuations", "statistics" and "probability" come into their own.
            2. +5
              April 4 2023 14: 32
              Quote: Engineer
              The change of the OEF is immutable and inevitable.

              Yes, when society reaches a certain level of productive forces.
        3. +3
          April 4 2023 13: 18
          The model is found in its pure form, and therefore can serve as a basis for both theoretical constructions and forecasts.
          1. +4
            April 4 2023 13: 24
            Great, here we come to the question.
            In the original formulation so far. In what area can the OEF and other theories of Marx be used for forecasts?
        4. +1
          April 4 2023 13: 40
          And this, Denis, is like "imaginary numbers", they don't seem to exist either...
          1. +1
            April 4 2023 13: 51
            Imaginary numbers are quite practical. With their help, transformations are made and, for example, amplitude-frequency characteristics are calculated.
            And then there is Marx. To what shall we apply it? To the economy? To history? To futurological constructs?
            1. +3
              April 4 2023 14: 26
              And then there is Marx. To what shall we apply it? To the economy? To history? To futurological constructs?

              Eugene,
              good day,
              You sometimes amaze, look around and see the CEF, but if you believe otherwise, it does not mean that the CEF does not exist.
              And only on the basis of this we can talk about the development of at least European society.
              Otherwise, some kind of mess, a hodgepodge of "good" and "bad" princes and kings, like your beloved Karamzin, and this is all the explanation that opposes the OEF. Or your unloved Gumilyov?
              Or a world-system? or chiefdom? Or other locally sensational theories? Fomenkovism and haplogroupism, and all retrogrades, Pobedonosikites, are also against the OEF.
              Oh yes, I forgot authoritarian and non-authoritarian rulers, a totalitarian society, i .e. the open society and its enemies and friends. Here is a complete mess.
              And the OEF is an understandable and clear development of society in progress or regression, progressive.
              Unless, of course, it's vulgar.
              hi
              1. +2
                April 4 2023 14: 37
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                Oh yes, I forgot

                And still - Civilizations! hi
              2. +2
                April 4 2023 14: 38
                You strike sometimes, look around and see the uff

                The GEF as a kind of generalized construct is reality, but the universal explainer of everything with the help of the GEF, as they tried to do in the USSR, is a fail.
                The OEF does not explain the collapse of socialism in the USSR and its gradual phasing out in China. Does not explain the success of the former UK-type colonies or the Irish case. And much, much more. Moreover, the observed facts of the GEF theory often directly contradict. And again the question is where is the niche of the OEF theory today?
                1. +4
                  April 4 2023 15: 03
                  Quote: Engineer
                  GEF as a kind of generalized reality construct

                  Why are we all about Marxism, but about Marxism.
                  Let's listen to your vision: what can you offer us instead of the CEF?
                  1. +3
                    April 4 2023 15: 24
                    It's nothing.
                    In history, economics, futurology, there are a lot of concepts and schools besides the OEF theory.
                    In many ways, I like OEF. At least for the breadth of coverage.
                    I specifically asked. Show me an area where EEF works better than other concepts. So far, there is no clear answer.
                    1. +4
                      April 4 2023 16: 06
                      Quote: Engineer
                      It's nothing.

                      So not interesting.
                      In history, economics, futurology, there are a lot of concepts and schools besides the OEF theory.

                      There are many, but in most cases they cannot offer anything more intelligible.
                      Show me an area where EEF works better than other concepts

                      For me, at least in history, it works quite well and I personally see no reason to abandon the concept of changing formations depending on changes in the productive forces of society. In general, all this can be traced: tribal society, slavery, feudalism, capitalism. There is a nuance with slavery: it is no coincidence that the “Asian mode of production” was mentioned here in the comments, or we also called it the eastern mode of production, when the bulk of the product is produced not by slaves, but by free community members who are dependent on the state, and this is actually the earliest after the tribal social formation, accompanied by the formation of early class states. Classical slavery arises already at the next stage in the development of socio-economic relations, and in my opinion it would be correct to single it out separately. Actually, Marx proposed all this, but he did not finalize this point, but here one must also take into account the level of historical knowledge of almost 200 years ago. Now we know that the "Asian mode of production" is not actually Asian, but simply the earliest: it was quite common in Europe - among the same Minoans and Mycenaeans.
                      And so, taking into account the amendments to modern knowledge, the OEF works quite well, at least in my opinion it is much better than other concepts, unless of course you try that "French feudalism" was in our country in the same form.
                      1. +5
                        April 4 2023 16: 08
                        There is a nuance with slavery:

                        Support, I have questions. good
                      2. +4
                        April 4 2023 16: 37
                        That is, there remains a contribution in the form of a statement of stages in the development of society. Not so little. But at the same time, it is formulated in the most general form, as well as the process of changing formations.
                        If a person wants to understand history and understand, for example, why the Eastern Roman Empire survived and the Western fell, Marx will be absolutely useless.
                        Marx's primacy of economics in comprehending history is simply determinism. The very "ism" from which you need to get rid of.
                      3. +5
                        April 4 2023 17: 53
                        Quote: Engineer
                        If a person wants to understand history and understand, for example, why the Eastern Roman Empire survived and the Western fell, Marx will be absolutely useless.

                        I think yes, this is a rather private question, how and why Moscow and not Tver?
                        PS and by the way why?
                      4. +3
                        April 4 2023 18: 02
                        But on a general level, the situation is similar.
                        If a person asks the question of the formation of feudalism, he will find out that the Germans quite had the institutions of slavery completely borrowed from the Romans, and not, as Marx wrote for the Germans, from communal to feudalism bypassing slave ownership. And in general, feudalism from the point of view of the economy was a step backwards compared to classical slavery until about the Renaissance, at least
                        and by the way why?

                        The role of the individual. What Marx generally denied. laughing
                      5. +3
                        April 4 2023 19: 56
                        Quote: Engineer
                        , and not, as Marx wrote for the Germans, from communal to feudalism, bypassing slavery

                        And this is exactly what he wrote, and not Engels? I just don't remember.
                        However, this is not important, since particulars do not fundamentally change anything: to approach dogmatically everything that he wrote - this has already happened, personally I am for creative development.
                        For example, how do you feel about Darwin's theory?
                        And in general, feudalism from the point of view of the economy was a step backwards compared to classical slavery until about the Renaissance, at least
                        Well, I don't know, I'll have to think. A horse can also overtake a car while it is gaining momentum.
                        The role of the individual. What Marx generally denied.
                        And at the macro-historical level, this is quite logical.
            2. +6
              April 4 2023 14: 33
              Quote: Engineer
              And then there is Marx. To what shall we apply it? To the economy? To history?

              To history.
              Let the economists and futurologists talk about economics and futurology.
            3. +3
              April 4 2023 14: 53
              Quote: Engineer
              And then there is Marx. To what shall we apply it? To the economy? To history? To futurological constructs?

              And we will apply to all this. The GEF theory explains all this well and puts it in order. Eduard wrote very truly about this.
              Forecasts have been given to you ... Our main forecast has been sitting on the eastern border for quite some time. This is the People's Republic of China - at the moment an advanced socio-economic formation. And it is necessary to take not Marx, but Smirnov. He has a more modern theory that develops and refines Marx's.
              1. +4
                April 4 2023 15: 01
                Quote: Mihaylov
                To history.

                Quote: populist
                And we will apply to all this.

                So what is the result of the application?
                The concept has been abandoned in history. In economics, fail-socialism in practice rolls back to capitalism. "The labor theory of value" in the Marxist formulation has long been of no use to anyone.
                I am not strong in futurology, but the concepts of almost two hundred years ago have little relation to the future, as for me.
                1. +2
                  April 4 2023 19: 54
                  Quote: Engineer
                  In history, the concept is discarded

                  Understanding people have not discarded. OEF in history forever, but only in the clarification of Yu. Smirnov. And further; The OEF and class theory are not obliged to explain the palace coups in Russia in the 18th century or every “bunch” of some Henri 4th. In other words, they are not required to explain literally every event in history.
                  Quote: Engineer
                  So what is the result of the application?

                  Drop dead! The Chinese applied the theory and practice of the NEP and created the world's first economy.
                  Quote: Engineer
                  Not strong in futurology

                  If they knew, they could lay out a few amusing moments. Marxist theory was written 200 years ago, when many social sciences were in their infancy. Therefore, some provisions of that old theory do not reflect reality and need to be clarified.
                  He is not a dogma Yes
                  1. 0
                    April 4 2023 21: 24
                    The OEF and class theory are not obliged to explain the palace coups in Russia in the 18th century or every “bunch” of some Henri 4th.

                    And the OEF and the class struggle and at a higher level have problems with explaining history. She states rather than explains. For example, the Dutch War of Independence ended in the singling out of a poorer and less developed Holland. And the richer and more economically developed Belgium remained part of Spain.

                    Quote: populist
                    Drop dead! The Chinese applied the theory and practice of the NEP and created the world's first economy.

                    Alas, China's economy is a transitional economy from socialism to capitalism. Just very smoothly and while maintaining the leadership role of the CCP.
                    People's Daily Data
                    Since 2012, the share of private investment for the fifth year in a row exceeds 60% of the volume of investments in fixed capital in the country, private enterprises use about 40% of resources, contributed more than 50% of taxes, created over 60% of GDP, contributed more than 70% to technological innovation and new product development, provided more than 90% of new jobs, including over 80% in cities and towns.

                    http://russian.people.com.cn/n3/2019/0306/c31518-9553049.html
                    From the point of view of Marxism, socialism is being systematically curtailed. This is not even opportunism, but a real counter-revolution.
                    1. +1
                      April 4 2023 23: 12
                      Quote: Engineer
                      . And the richer and more economically developed Belgium remained part of Spain.

                      What's with the OEF? There is an even clearer example. Bourgeois France was crushed by the European monarchies. How does the OEF refute this?
                      Quote: Engineer
                      Alas, China's economy is a transitional economy from socialism to capitalism.

                      The Chinese think differently. The NEP in the USSR was curtailed after 7-8 years. Here they will take and curtail private business in the PRC in 300 years. Who will forbid them? They have 5000 years of history. In the meantime, the NEP.
        5. +2
          April 4 2023 14: 38
          For such discussions, a site is needed. But who will take care of it? You can discuss under the heading "History". Someone uploads an article, and the rest of the club members discuss it. How is it happening now. Only it is necessary to connect theory with history in each article so that the rubric matches.
    3. +1
      April 4 2023 12: 14
      find out what is the state of Marx's teachings now
      Now, they are separating the wheat from the chaff. For it has been overgrown with various revisionist theories, starting with Eurocommunism. I don’t know how things are with the Marxist movement in Europe, but Russian Marxists are squabbling among themselves, calling each other revisionists.
      1. +6
        April 4 2023 12: 54
        That's what I'm talking about. We need our own circle - then we, too, can gnaw. smile
        1. +4
          April 4 2023 13: 09
          The whole trouble is that in Russia there are a fairly large number of Marxist circles, but there is mutual antipathy at the level of leaders and there is no movement towards unity. 2 Congress of the RSDLP, you can’t even preserve internal unity .. But .. “we all look at Napoleons ..” (c) .. “We are sunflowers, and Vitya clicks us” (c) .. I heard that the historian and publisher Kolpakidi allegedly managed to convene something, but there is more on the left-wing patriotic platform than on the Marxist one. I think it’s nothing serious, if it was possible. Another blah blah blah.
        2. +5
          April 4 2023 13: 42
          We need our own circle - then we, too, can gnaw.
          And then the Middle Ages will get EVERYTHING to me !!!
          1. Fat
            +3
            April 4 2023 14: 11
            I'll be brief: "Well ... For the monopoly!" drinks lol
            Hello. Anton.
          2. +7
            April 4 2023 14: 45
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            And then the Middle Ages will get EVERYTHING to me !!!

            So own "feeding" was drawn! laughing
            1. +3
              April 4 2023 15: 28
              So own "feeding" was drawn!

              Sergey, then do not join the circle of Marxists - and the whole of Ancient Greece will "go to feed" you. laughing Life hack from smart-ass Anton! lol
          3. +4
            April 4 2023 15: 48
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            And then the Middle Ages will get EVERYTHING to me !!!

            Nevermind. Marxism is Marxism, but we will not abandon the knights.
        3. +2
          April 4 2023 15: 26
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Need a circle

          Is this article not enough for you to gnaw on as a platform?
  14. +2
    April 4 2023 09: 16
    Well .. The author has already begun to consider himself smarter than Marx .. belay And I, a sinner, as proof of my wrongness, he convicted of ignorance of his works .. what

    Again. Who is a knight? This is a heavily armed horseman, feeding from the land that belonged to him by right of feud. The feud is an estate in exchange for military service. It's like that? Well - and how then does the western knight differ from the Iranian savaran or the Turkish sipahi??

    Sipahis were a kind of nobles of the Ottoman Empire. They received income from a land plot with peasants, shopping arcades, mills, or some other enterprise - timar (sometimes a special term spahilyk is used), for which they had to arm themselves and hire a small detachment of squires.

    Yes, there are definitely differences. First of all, the classical western feudal ladder is not so clearly defined, most of the petty feudal lords were directly subordinate to the ruler. Well, it was the same in Rus' !! I hope - the author will not deny feudalism in Russia? Yes - the ownership of a feud was not officially hereditary in the East - a feud could only be owned while you were serving. But in practice, all the eastern nobles transferred their allotments to their sons! And this is understandable - it is much easier for the son of a hereditary military man to acquire the necessary skills than for the son of a peasant. But the point is, it doesn't change at all.

    Again, it is not clear what period the author is considering. For chivalry, say, the X century, was radically different from that of the XV century ..

    So - I would like the respected author to somehow more sanely argue his point of view. For it is with him - often very doubtful. And he didn’t refer to the type generally accepted, it’s not clear who they say the concept is.
    1. +1
      April 4 2023 15: 20
      The feudal ladder in Europe was formed solely due to the fact that land division already existed in the Western Roman Empire.
  15. -2
    April 4 2023 09: 41
    3x3zsave (Anton). I would start with economics.

    Let's start?

    In fact, if we proceed from the content of the article, then the author, perhaps without even suspecting it, began not with economics, but with, no less than with the philosophy of history, trying to highlight (I apologize for the somewhat pretentious definition) the unity and multidimensionality historical process in general and the development of socio-economic formations in particular.
    If we try to systematize and structure the information presented by the author, we get something like the following.
    An integral system of production relations of a certain type, forming a social form of production - a socio-economic structure.

    Among the different types of economic structures can be distinguished:
    formational structures: primitive communal, slave-owning, feudal, capitalist, socialist, communist order;
    non-formational structures: patriarchal (small natural economy) and petty-bourgeois (small commodity economy) structure;
    mixed structures (multi-structure).

    The economic system of society is not limited to one economic mode and, as a rule, is a multi-structural economy, where one of the modes dominates and determines the nature of the social system and belonging to a certain socio-economic formation.
    The multistructural nature of the economy means the existence of various forms of management under a given economic system.


    For those who are interested in the topic, I highly recommend this book.
    1. +3
      April 4 2023 11: 03
      Good afternoon,
      The multistructural nature of the economy means the existence of various forms of management under a given economic system.

      Multiformity - this term was invented in order to blur the process.
      in any system there is multiformity. Under slaveholding, there is small farming, under feudalism. it is also there, and it is free. This doesn't change things. The system is the system, and the chatter about the multistructural nature of the economy is just the chatter of theorists. Where then is the diversity under capitalism? Where any small producer will either become a big shark or shark food.
      1. +3
        April 4 2023 11: 09
        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
        in any system there is multiformity

        It exists, but it does not define anything.
        Greetings Edward! hi
        1. +4
          April 4 2023 14: 27
          It exists, but it does not define anything.
          Greetings Edward!

          Greetings Sergey!!!
          Support!
      2. -2
        April 4 2023 12: 58
        The system is the system, and the chatter about the multistructural nature of the economy is just the chatter of theorists.

        You know, Edward, with all due respect to you, your remark "theorists' chatter" to such theorists as Arrow, Buchanan or Smith looks, to put it mildly, immodest. I understand that the opportunity to kick Nobel laureates on the pages of the VO website pleasantly tickles the alter ego, but the first ego must still retain the possibility of objective self-assessment.
        Where then is the diversity under capitalism?

        You have heard about the mixed economy, I hope?
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +4
          April 4 2023 14: 37
          You have heard about the mixed economy, I hope?

          Dear Sergey,
          rhetorical question laughing
          I do not want to kick anyone and did not set your goal.
          I'm talking about the essence of the phenomenon: a key system, but it doesn't happen that there is capitalism and a mixed economy,
          feudalism and pluralism. Well, there are no such societies. The structure is determined by which class the means of production belong to, no matter how many small tenants or shoemakers there are.
          The system is determined not by the fact that in the United States there are a lot of small enterprises, capitalism is the dominance of big capital. What we clearly see in everyone, 100% cap. countries.
          And so any country is in fact a multi-structural or with a mixed economy, but if society is based on part ownership of the means of production, then this is capitalism.
          Even the PRC is pure capitalism, only the state. capitalism.
          hi
    2. +4
      April 4 2023 12: 21
      Yuri Ivanovich Semyonov (born September 5, 1929, Sverdlovsk) - Soviet and Russian historian, philosopher, ethnologist, specialist in the philosophy of history, the history of primitive society, the theory of knowledge; creator of the original global formational (relay-stage) concept of world history. Candidate of Philosophical Sciences, Doctor of Historical Sciences, Professor.

      I read the book by Yu. Semyonov "Philosophy of History". Very interesting and helpful. I also recommend it to everyone. A must read for supporters of Marxism. Semyonov is a living classic of Marxism. True, reading is not easy.
  16. +2
    April 4 2023 10: 05
    Good morning
    Colleagues, does Vyacheslav Olegovich have an attack of masochism?
    If so, then let's be lenient
    Р
    S
    I have 3 calls, serious, and therefore there is no time to read comments. Please do not be angry, but I have to work to feed myself and my family.
    1. 0
      April 4 2023 10: 25
      Quote: Astra wild2
      an attack of masochism?

      How did you decide that?
    2. -2
      April 4 2023 10: 35
      no time to read comments. Please do not be angry, but I have to work to feed myself and my family.

      Yep, very interesting wassat I can't imagine how I would live without this information. laughing
  17. -1
    April 4 2023 10: 28
    Marx's theory fails

    The author is clearly not well versed in Marxism .. For the main gradation is not even so much a form of ownership as the one in whose interests the fruits of its activities are distributed ..

    For example, slavery in the American South. Yes - cotton went to the slave owner. But where did he go next? To the capitalist enterprises of the North, of course! Which slavery in the South-was obviously beneficial. And the lion's share of the final profit from slavery was still received by the goofy capitalists of the North. So what was the social system of the United States then - capitalist or slave-owning? I think the answer is obvious.

    In the same way - the thesis about the type of state capitalism in the USSR. Say - this socialism is the same capitalism, but with one mega-bourgeois - the state. But - in whose interests were the profits from state enterprises distributed under Soviet power? Is it not the people? So what is capitalism then?
    1. +1
      April 4 2023 11: 23
      Quote: paul3390
      Is it not the people?

      Whole people or some part? Or did some part of the people get more, and some less? Can you tell me about the envelope system and closed distributors? But the same thing, only without envelopes and closed distributors, took place in the same USA. There, the people also get a lot from the profits of corporations ... I am reviewing the series about Perry Mason in 1957. He is a lawyer, he charges dearly. A woman comes to him and he says to her - let's take you to free legal advice.
      1. +1
        April 4 2023 11: 31
        Whole people or some part?

        You ask questions that require lengthy discussions by highly advanced philosophers. laughing
        1. +1
          April 4 2023 13: 35
          Quote: paul3390
          requiring long discussions of highly advanced philosophers

          No. Just honesty. Because everyone knows that there was no equality in the USSR. That there were people who "were more equal than others", and the higher they were, the more "equal" they were. They just didn't talk about it in the media. Everything was according to Molière: whoever sins in silence does not commit a sin. And as a result, that part of the people who were deprived of the "equality" of the second part, it became so for everything ... they don't give a damn that 91 years happened. That's all.
      2. -2
        April 4 2023 11: 48
        The system of envelopes and privileges that Yeltsin spoke about is in the USSR, and the system of billionaires and the gigantic flow of funds to the West is now.

        The times are not the same as Yeltsin - shaking a three-ruble travel card and talking about injustice in the USSR. Not convincing....
        1. +1
          April 4 2023 12: 32
          Quote: ivan2022
          Now.

          Why compare then and now? Then the ruble was money, and now a hundred in your pocket is sheer nonsense. And not three rubles were put into an envelope. I worked in the archives of the OK CPSU and I know how the employees of the apparatus were encouraged. I don't know about the first secretaries, of course. Owls. secret even now. But the cleaner in the regional committee, and received more than the cleaner in the store, and plus she was given another salary for the holidays. What is the difference in labor? No!
          1. +4
            April 4 2023 14: 03
            Quote: kalibr
            I worked in the archive of the OK CPSU and I know how the employees of the apparatus were encouraged

            Ah... ah, how bad.... they knew, therefore indirectly, they were an accomplice in crimes against the authorities and the state. You would have tensed up a little and realized that if an "apparatus worker" receives unearned money, then he commits a crime, and this is not a crime of power, but a crime of a citizen against power. I guess what the problem is .. It doesn’t fit in the head of the descendants of serfs that an “employee” is not a gentleman, but the same citizen with the same responsibility as “mere mortals”.
          2. +2
            April 4 2023 14: 08
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: ivan2022
            Now.

            Why compare then and now?
            Then, that you can compare anything with anything. But only - one measure, and with this you have problems
      3. +1
        April 4 2023 12: 06
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: paul3390
        Is it not the people?

        Whole people or some part? Or did some part of the people get more, and some less? Can you tell me about the envelope system and closed distributors?

        What was in the USSR bypassing the law and secretly is now, according to the law, and a thousand times stronger. Tell you about how three dudes divided the country into almost 300 million people at night in the forest? It is from them that you received the current "freedom and democracy." Isn't it a strange source of grace?
        1. +1
          April 4 2023 12: 34
          Quote: ort
          in the USSR it was bypassing the law and secretly

          It's even worse. The deception of people who trusted the authorities is simply terrible.
          1. +3
            April 4 2023 12: 54
            It is logical that it is better to legitimize theft and robbery for yourself, so that those whom they rob and rob would not be very envious. The enterprise, privatized by law, by law, was sold under the hammer, from the enterprise horns and legs, units, the profits received into their pocket, according to the law, the rest, according to the law, to the street ... It's called, go into business. Of course, that's fine laughing According to the law ... the main thing ..
            1. +1
              April 4 2023 13: 30
              Quote: kor1vet1974
              According to the law ... the main thing ..

              And now think about what would happen if at that time it was possible to write about envelopes, about special distributors, special polyclinics, special rations, special canteens at regional committees. And journalists would write about all this the way they write today. I'm sure there would be even more resentment. You would be the first to shout: "By what right is such inequality !!!"
              1. +3
                April 4 2023 13: 46
                And what you wrote was not legal? It had, it was secured by various party and ministerial orders and resolutions. But, according to this "lawlessness" you indicated, people were not sent to business, as they are now, cities and villages did not die en masse, then they also died, I do not argue there was a place to be. You probably do you live in some provincial city? You can’t see, but in our city, the district, production was destroyed, from the word completely, only because these units, according to the law, put the profit in their pocket, making the rest beggars. You probably at that time " lawlessness" on the porch, standing with outstretched hand, begging? Don't reduce it to sausage and toilet paper.
                1. +1
                  April 4 2023 15: 39
                  Quote: kor1vet1974
                  You can’t see, but in our city, county, production has been destroyed, from the word completely

                  Not only is it not destroyed, but on the contrary, it is flourishing. I live in my hometown for a long time, I know a lot of everything, they know me well, they greet me on the street. And I know, there are a lot of enterprises that just do not produce anything. They deliver products to Germany and the USA, and even Kazakhstan and Russia - God himself ordered. They don't have enough workers. That's how!
                2. 0
                  April 4 2023 18: 05
                  Quote: kor1vet1974
                  You probably in that period of "lawlessness" stood on the porch, with outstretched hands, begged?

                  At that time he taught at the university.
              2. +1
                April 4 2023 13: 55
                Quote: kalibr
                And journalists would write about all this the way they write today

                And why don't they (journalists) write today about what is allowed under the Law?
                But if they start to write or just s-i-c-a-t-s is not quite what you need, we know what happens to them ...You, of course, judging by the subject of your articles, have long "figured out"?
                1. +1
                  April 4 2023 15: 42
                  Quote: ort
                  ..You, of course, judging by the subject of your articles, have you "figured out" for a long time?

                  Why should I write about what I don't know? Write about what you know well. And to burn people's hearts with a verb ... why? Call to the barricades? Why, I do not believe in it from the word at all.
          2. +1
            April 4 2023 13: 59
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: ort
            in the USSR it was bypassing the law and secretly

            It's even worse. The deception of people who trusted the authorities is simply terrible.

            Actually, the word "crime" means breaking the law. You do not confuse a crime against the law and power with a crime of power itself? At your leisure, think...
        2. Fat
          0
          April 4 2023 13: 22
          hi "Damned compradors!" And these three men are not flesh and blood from the "leading and guiding" force - the CPSU? wassat
          1. +1
            April 4 2023 13: 27
            Quote: Thick
            And these three men are not flesh and blood from the "leading and guiding" force - the CPSU?

            They are reptilians from Aldebaran, who took on our form to harm us.
          2. +1
            April 4 2023 13: 42
            Quote: Thick
            And these three men are not flesh and blood from the "leading and guiding" force - the CPSU?
            When the three men got together, the CPSU had been banned for more than a month. It was like in a joke - only "strengthening", but there was no longer any "guide".
            By the way .... and Judas Iscariot is not the "flesh" of the disciples of God himself? According to your logic, is it God's fault that He was crucified? I believe that in the case of the CPSU, it was about the same.
            There is one difference - God knew what he was doing, and 18 million "communists" elected leaders because "it was so crazy in the head." But now the people and slurp - do not disentangle the same shit ... And who else? Heh..heh... you guys, only you, Marx and Engels are no way here. ! laughing
            1. Fat
              +1
              April 4 2023 15: 01
              hi
              Quote: ort
              According to your logic, is it God's fault that He was crucified?

              Imagine God is in a certain sense "guilty". For such was his "predestination". To sacrifice a prophet, despite the fact that the victim is a "son of God" If you are as versed in Marxism as in "holy scripture", then there is no point in challenging your comments. Your Faith is your right and, oddly enough, thanks to the "comprador" "glasnost"
              And the fact that the CPSU was banned under B.E. - the fault of presumptuous "party functionaries" who put their own, often selfish interests much higher than the interests of the Soviet State, higher than the interests of ordinary party members, subordinate to "democratic" centralism, higher than the interests of the bulk of the Soviet people.
              In general, it is noteworthy that among the "communist fundamentalists" from the GKChP, people of honor prevailed, or did it seem to me so?
              1. +1
                April 4 2023 16: 47
                Quote: Thick
                And the fact that the CPSU was banned under B.E. - the fault of presumptuous "party functionaries" who put their own,

                The word "functionaries" was pointed out to you in the movie "17 Moments of Spring" - you repeat it. In the CPSU, all positions, according to the charter, were elected and accountable to meetings and congresses. They were chosen! Can you understand this? Once they were elected, it means that the result was raked quite deservedly. If the party "functionaries" were hereditary nobles, princes, then only they would be to blame for everything.
              2. +1
                April 4 2023 16: 56
                Quote: Thick
                hi
                Quote: ort
                According to your logic, is it God's fault that He was crucified?

                Imagine God is in a certain sense "guilty".

                If you are a believer, this is a sin for you. If not, it's nonsense.because the one who does not exist cannot be to blame. So you are to blame anyway.
            2. +2
              April 4 2023 16: 04
              Quote: ort
              According to your logic, is it God's fault that He was crucified?

              Exactly. Moreover, guilt is in the form of direct intent, this is when the guilty person is aware of the consequences of his actions and wishes for their occurrence. smile
              Remember the prayer for the cup - everything is said very clearly there.
              My Father! if this cup cannot pass me by, lest I drink it, Thy will be done.

              The usual victim.
              1. +2
                April 4 2023 16: 51
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Quote: ort
                According to your logic, is it God's fault that He was crucified?

                Exactly. Moreover, guilt is in the form of direct intent, this is when the guilty person is aware of the consequences of his actions and wishes for their occurrence. smile
                Remember the prayer for the cup - everything is said very clearly there.
                My Father! if this cup cannot pass me by, lest I drink it, Thy will be done.

                The usual victim.

                So I need to send you undeservedly and unfairly ......... and you will not complain to the admin? You yourself are to blame for this ... Let's do it ...
            3. +2
              April 4 2023 16: 10
              Quote: ort
              God is to blame

              Certainly! The Scriptures say that without God's will, not even a hair will fall from the head. So even the winds will not let go without God's permission. And this is such a big and important thing...
              1. +2
                April 4 2023 16: 49
                Quote: kalibr
                Quote: ort
                God is to blame

                Certainly! The Scriptures say that without God's will, not even a hair will fall from the head. So even the winds will not let go without God's permission. And this is such a big and important thing...

                Heh..heh...sif I undeservedly and unfairly send you ....... then you do not need to complain to the administrator. Because you are to blame!
                1. +1
                  April 4 2023 18: 01
                  Quote: ort
                  Because you are to blame!

                  How can I be to blame for your actions?
      4. +3
        April 4 2023 14: 11
        Quote: kalibr
        Whole people or some part?

        It was clearly explained to you that the point is not in the part of the people, and mainly not in the form of property.
        Verbosity and trying to move on to another topic will not help you.
        1. +1
          April 4 2023 15: 45
          Quote: ort
          won't help you

          In what? Do I need help with something? The article is in front of you. It says everything. You can read along, across, through the line.
    2. +3
      April 4 2023 13: 38
      Quote: paul3390
      The author is clearly not well versed in Marxism.

      He passed the minimum, wrote and defended his dissertation, taught the history of the CPSU from 1982 to 1991, was a lecturer in the Republic of Kazakhstan and the OK CPSU. If I didn’t understand, they would have been driven from everywhere. The feeder was not rubber, everyone who was not on the level was removed from it very quickly!
  18. +5
    April 4 2023 13: 50
    In my suburbs spring heat - there will be a thunderstorm!
    The Ministry of Culture closed the organization that promotes Russian culture to the masses, in particular, the children's choir, which had existed for many years before, was disbanded.

    On the Holy Lake in Kozhukhovo, Orthodox youth gather for worship in the monastery and a rally against the construction of a mosque here for 60 Muslims. Many are just children, teenagers. Kadyrov suggested that the protesters go to the front, but not like his fighters - to the second and third echelons, but to the LBS.

    A familiar young Asian came out of his store to bask in the hot spring sun. Now he has grown a Wahhabi beard and put on a skullcap. He identified himself.

    ... When I crawled ashore from the ocean for the first time and flapped my flippers, shuddering in horror from the unfamiliar situation, not far from me, a weaker one, like me, glued the flippers together. Feeling a brutal hunger, I crawled up to my fellow tribesman and began to eat him. And then the rest crawled in. They were weaker than me, but there were many of them, and they pushed me back and even bit me.
    It was my first social experience.
    But he didn't help. Because then I was also eaten - such was the social experience of those who had strayed into a flock.
    1. +2
      April 4 2023 15: 49
      Around my house, children's clubs are open within walking distance. There are many and they work. I can show a photo, including guys on motorcycles. There is a leisure center. It is clear that the governor did all this on purpose so as not to anger me, but still it’s nice - it’s a benefit to many. Not far away is the stall of an oriental man. Hello. We talk about life. Always sells me the best... No beard. There is no skullcap. But a family lives in my house - many children and women in pants. There are few men. Hello.
    2. +2
      April 4 2023 21: 16
      Lyudmila Yakovlevna, if you put on a sundress, and your obedient servant a kosovorotka, will this be a retaliatory blow?
  19. Fat
    +3
    April 4 2023 17: 45
    hi Must notice. Getting negatives is annoying.
    "Minusators" do me a certain honor. This means that the text touches a nerve, but "haters" should not flock and "minus" my posts on all branches just because I am "Fat" without reading. This is not allowed by the site rules.
    Or maybe there are those who sincerely believe the risk is worth it? Well, that's a double honor. smile
  20. +1
    April 4 2023 18: 37
    I see that the author is a big fan of serials with slave izaurs

    I advise you to write an article next time "WHAT IS THE RUS DIFFERENT FROM THE SLOV AND WHICH OF THEM EARLIER APPEARED ON THE HISTORICAL SCENE"

    Guaranteed 500 views and 000 stupid comment posts laughing
    1. +1
      April 4 2023 19: 01
      Quote: Lewww
      See

      I really can't stand it. But I use it as needed.
  21. -1
    April 4 2023 20: 07
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: ort
    won't help you

    In what? Do I need help with something? The article is in front of you. It says everything. You can read along, across, through the line.

    I guess ... I read it, cool! Shpakovsky and all sorts of isms canceled and God is to blame for him. This is where a doctor can't help. It's probably age.
  22. 0
    April 5 2023 08: 24
    In ancient Egypt, for example, the clan perished long ago, and there was a state that owned the whole earth. And for a long time there were so few slaves that they were even called "living dead." That is, initially this potential labor force was simply killed. And what was the system in Ancient Egypt then?


    The "living dead" slaves in Egypt were called not because they were few, or they were initially killed.
    But because they were voiceless and powerless, like corpses.
    Slavery in Egypt may have been brought from outside by the Hyksos.
    Slave labor was widely used, primarily in agriculture and land reclamation.

    What system?
    Actually the economy, always and everywhere is multistructural. And in any country in any era, you can find elements of all possible "isms": from subsistence tribal economy (According to what economic laws does the family function - the "cell of society"? We are all partly still in the tribal way of life, at least knee-deep) to market- capitalist (the first bankers-financiers appeared in ancient Babylon)
    .
    And in our time, you can meet both slavery and quite feudalism (criminal authorities will completely give a ride for a modern analogue of medieval barons ... the mentality and manners are the same).

    The definition of a particular society, which "ism" dominates in it, should be given on the basis of which classes, what relationships between them determine the main trend of social development and provide the greatest conflict and contradictions in this society. If the slaves and their masters are the most active in their opposition - the slave-owning system, even if the numerically free plowmen predominate, but the latter remain only passive extras on the social scene.
  23. +1
    April 5 2023 08: 28
    American - 50x50 percent (public and private sector) and 98 percent of the Soviet state economy.


    There was never a 50% state economy in the US, even under F. Roosevelt.
    And 98% of the state economy in the USSR did not exist either. Since households are also part of the economy, in the USSR they were, by any chance, more than 2%.
    "Economy" Aristotle called the ability / art to manage one's household (which is reflected in the term itself).
  24. +1
    April 5 2023 09: 30
    Quote: ort
    What was in the USSR bypassing the law and secretly is now, according to the law, and a thousand times stronger. Tell you about how three dudes divided the country into almost 300 million people at night in the forest? It is from them that you received the current "freedom and democracy." Isn't it a strange source of grace?


    By the time of the gathering in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, the USSR, de facto, no longer existed as a single country and state.
    Practically all union republics (and not only them) have already adopted declarations of their independence.
    Moreover, the "working masses" did not always perceive this negatively, sometimes quite the opposite.
    Or has "Russia's Independence Day" become a date of mourning for us?

    So the agreement on the creation of the CIS is just a control shot, nothing more.
  25. 0
    April 5 2023 13: 24
    Quote: Thick
    Imagine God is in a certain sense "guilty". For such was his "predestination". Sacrifice a prophet, despite the fact that the victim is "the son of God"


    According to the Canon, God is one in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
    That is, this trinity is a single, in fact, personality. To call Christ simply a "prophet" is heresy.
    So it's not about sacrifice, but about self-sacrifice, rather.

    Although from the point of view of a cynical atheist, an uncomfortable question arises: what prevented the Almighty from simply forgiving original sin? And not arrange a similar staging?
    Apparently, I just wanted drama out of boredom ... laughing
    1. The comment was deleted.
  26. 0
    April 5 2023 13: 25
    Hosspadi, by such years the author has not yet understood that all this "Marxism" is fake and empty?! Not only does it not contain any recipe for "communism", but the entire explanation of historical processes has nothing to do with reality.
  27. +2
    April 5 2023 13: 29
    Quote: kalibr
    But the cleaner in the regional committee, and received more than the cleaner in the store, and plus she was given another salary for the holidays. What is the difference in labor? No!


    Well? What changed?
    Or does a janitor at a big bank earn the same as a janitor at a school or clinic?

    Is social justice still lacking? Polygraph Poligrafovich is alive, more alive than all the living ... laughing
  28. +1
    April 5 2023 14: 49
    In any case, it is obvious that one should look for some other division of society into some others ...

    Or get acquainted with the achievements of political economy over the past 50 years? - which is more obvious.
  29. +2
    April 5 2023 20: 25
    Vyacheslav, to make it pleasant for the eye to read, because I myself do not like sheets, I will break my answer into several posts.
    I'll start with the main thing, this is the outdated Marx. So, or rather, even Engels, who just launched the theory, having certainly worked it out deeply, this is a theory and not holy scripture, as Lenin said: Marxism is not a dogma but a guide to action. You can agree with Marx, the collective Marx, you can disagree, this is a matter for everyone, but there is simply no other theory that would describe the historical process in exactly the same way. Can you think of it? So far, no one has succeeded.

    Do not think that you were attacked by a pensioner, a party member, when you published your first book, I either finished the 1st year of the history department, or studied in the first semester of the second, so all the criticism of Marxism fell on my growing up in exactly the same vein as and you criticize approximately and asked yourself exactly the same questions, with a difference in that. that I could find answers to some of them.
    Marx is not an inventor, an eccentric bearded man, an outstanding economist, whose family periodically ate potato peels, but he is a product of his time, and the fact that slaves built the pyramids was not invented by Marox, but such was the idea of ​​that time. He had no idea that later archaeologists would excavate the camp of the pyramid builders and even find out their approximate diet, in particular, they were given beer. And he simply developed what the preparations of which were made before him and not even preparations, not like that, it sounds insulting, and his theory fully fits into the previous scientific research and economics of Marx, this is the development of the ideas of Adam Smith and Ricardo, and the class struggle before him " invented" by the bourgeois philosophers Thierry, Guizot and Mignet.
    He simply developed their ideas and creatively reworked them, according to the same class struggle, those gentlemen proved to the feudal lords that not only feudal lords could govern. And, when in my third year I studied the basics of economic theory, the supply-demand curve and so on, we were embarrassed to say that this was Marx, so many people tried to take and discount him, until no one succeeded.
    1. +3
      April 5 2023 20: 42
      I also want to touch the knights, but for now we move on.
      Now about slavery, capitalism and others like them, and as an example we take the same USA, but who told you that a more developed formation cannot resort to more primitive methods of exploitation? In the time of Marx, slavery was not closely studied as it is now, and its various forms are known, but he certainly knew about slavery in the Middle Ages in Venice, and even more so in the USA, because at that time he lived and worked. Do you seriously think that American slavery has passed him by? Of course in the States capitalism, even during the Civil War, 4 northern States were slaveholding.
      So slavery is most effective when you don’t need to raise a slave from the cradle, by the way, this seriously distracts the slave, and exploit it so that he doesn’t linger in old age. And this is possible only with a massive influx of slaves from the outside, Rome decided this for itself. But the Europeans, the Turks decided with the help of the Crimean Tatars, the Europeans delivered some blacks to America with the help of others.
      Otherwise, the slaves acquire some kind of independence, they have no rights, but you can start a family, let's remember that Uncle Tom had a hut. So the American slaves were secondary, the cotton industry was primary, so there is no need to calculate any interest, slavery exists and has existed in our days. Won in the second Chechen freed people who did not know that the Soviet Union collapsed.

      The problematic part of Marxism is precisely in the transition from the slave-owning system to the feudal one, and its model is certainly Eurocentric, if you look at the example of Rome, then Rome ran into certain boundaries. All those structures could only be erected by crowds of slaves, who were constantly driven and driven, so to say that there were few slaves in Egypt. yes how do you know? I'm just wondering who fed the builders of the pyramids at that time? Who fed the builders of the Colosseum, I know, the planters with their slaves.
      But here Rome rested in the East against Parthia, in the West against the Atlantic, in the North against the forests of Germany, what to do there? There is nothing to take from them. well, in the south to the African deserts. Well, Rome collapsed, and the colony you mentioned is a transition from one form of dependence to another, or would you like it to be like a click?
      Capitalism was also born slowly and painfully over more than one century.
      1. +2
        April 5 2023 21: 10
        Now about chivalry, since the masses of slaves are gone, there is a transition to subsistence farming, then there is no money to hire mercenaries. This is very clumsily said, but the conversation on this topic will take more than one article. So it turns out that when the foot German militia ceased to satisfy the needs of the king, mounted fighters were needed.
        Well, the most repulsed in the village and says, I will be like that, well, everyone agrees, throw off on his horse, equipment: go. And so the enslavement passed on the sly. But the peasants put up with this because they saw that their master could return without an eye, for example, or not return at all. Of course, he is a scoundrel, but he will leave them for food, but if exactly the same one comes to the village, but not his own, he will take everything to the last.
        In Rus', about the same processes, and the horsemen looked the same, show the image of the horsemen on the tapestry from Bayeux, and say that these are Russian knights, they will believe that they look the same, because the armor and weapons were made approximately on the Rhine, for some, for others.
        When the appearance of the Russian horseman changes, bows, sabers, tegils, paper hats appear, the essence of the feudal lord remains the same, the peasant plows, the feudal lord fights. And then these noble detachments from the word zilch began to be missed and the peasants had to be attracted, first to siege work, then to battles, the peasants sincerely did not understand what they were doing here and the peaks given to them were thrown away when the enemy approached and ran into the forest.

        They taught them gradually, by recruitment duty, but now it was the state that armed, it was not for the peasant to arm himself, especially since the most inconvenient were fused into recruits. But it was still feudalism, and then decrees on the liberties of the nobility went. When Catherine the Great convened the established commission, thinking about the development of capitalism. looking around at the merchants, they told her in plain text: and we have slaves, why only the nobles own?
        Of course, people like Saltychikha could have been punished, but the power over the slaves was undivided. at the same time, there were few of them. in general, the nobility was impoverished, it was never rich in the mass.
        But if before the peasant understood. why he tolerates the feudal lord, then the understanding is completely gone.
        Then they took revenge precisely for this slavery.

        But back to the knights, the term itself is purely European, although the Hungarian knight could be very different from the Spanish. But its counterparts in one form or another are everywhere. in order to assemble an equestrian archer, who for some reason wants a stronger bow, and a helmet with chain mail and a saber, a shield behind his back, or maybe a lance in addition, someone has to put on and put on shoes.
        With medieval agricultural technology, there was only one way to set up a well-armed equestrian fighter, from China to Britain, this was to give flax. To a sarcastic question about the Mongol. the same thing, a lot of shepherds, huge herds of cattle of various colors, only the degree of exploitation is thinner. Well, there are social elevators due to the underdevelopment of society.
  30. 0
    April 8 2023 09: 29
    Marx is not to blame for the fact that Shpakovsky does not understand him.
    Marx is not to blame for the fact that modern "Marxists" are not able to competently apply his methodology to the analysis of modern society. And they either slide down to "neo-Hegelianism" (from Lukacs to Kurginyan), of course, admiring the "early" Marx and not noticing the "late" one, or not rising above "vulgar materialism" (such as "Breakthrough" and the RKRP), which is then enthusiastically criticized by all sorts of ideological hyenas, fie made a reservation - all sorts of Shpakovskys .......
    So, leave alone what you did not understand.
    1. 0
      April 14 2023 08: 49
      In general, Shpakovsky is strong in extracting information. Know has good connections. But when he starts thinking about its meaning... It's a disaster. It refutes everything, and this is a clear sign of ignorance, which annoys everyone with its homegrown "ideas" and lies