Three eras and six periods in the history of knightly weapons

189
Three eras and six periods in the history of knightly weapons
"Westminster Tournament Scroll" 1511. An illustration showing how Henry VIII fights in a tournament in front of his wife Catherine of Aragon. Thomas Wriothesley (1460–1534). Heraldic College Collection


“He changes times and epochs; He raises kings and brings down kings. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the prudent."
Daniel 2:21

Problems historical science. They say that everything in the world develops and, in general, everything that happens is for the better. Here, for example, history books ... of the Middle Ages. We read the textbook of 1969 (Agibalova, E.V. History of the Middle Ages: Textbook for the 6th grade / E.V. Agibalova, G.M. Donskoy, M .: Education, 1969. S. 33) and this is what we find there :



“It was not easy for the peasants to defeat even one feudal lord. The equestrian warrior - a knight - was armed with a heavy sword and a long spear. With a large shield, he could cover himself from head to toe. The body of the knight was protected by chain mail - a shirt woven from iron rings. Later, chain mail was replaced by armor - armor made of iron plates.

The knights fought on strong, hardy horses, which were also protected by armor. The armament of the knight was very heavy: it weighed up to 50 kilograms. Therefore, the warrior was clumsy and clumsy. If the rider was thrown off his horse, he could not get up without outside help and was usually captured. To fight on a horse in heavy armor, a long training was needed, the feudal lords prepared for military service from childhood. They constantly practiced fencing, horseback riding, wrestling, swimming, and javelin throwing.

A war horse and knightly weapons were very expensive: for all this it was necessary to give a whole herd - 45 cows! The landowner, for whom the peasants worked, could carry out knightly service. Therefore, military affairs became the occupation almost exclusively of the feudal lords.

Years have passed and the content of the textbook has changed a lot for the better. In the third edition of the textbook "History of the Middle Ages" for the 2002th grade of secondary school V.A. Vedyushkin, published in XNUMX, the description of knightly weapons has become somewhat more thoughtful:

“At first, the knight was protected by a shield, helmet and chain mail. Then the most vulnerable parts of the body began to be hidden behind metal plates, and from the 30th century chain mail was finally replaced by solid armor. Combat armor weighed up to XNUMX kg, so for the battle the knights chose hardy horses, also protected by armor.

The main offensive weapons of the knight were a sword and a long (up to 3,5 m) heavy spear. The use of knightly weapons was allowed by stirrups, which in Western Europe were adopted from the East in the early Middle Ages. When a knight, protected from head to toe in armor, on a war horse with a spear at the ready, rushed into the attack, it seemed that there was no force capable of withstanding his blow.

But perhaps it would be worthwhile for those who create such textbooks to think a little. Maybe instead of making a real vinaigrette out of historical information, it would be worth giving a harmonious periodization of such an important and interesting phenomenon in the history of mankind as chivalry, and at the same time diluting their armor and weapons over the centuries. There is something to rely on - we have more than 6000 effigies and many thousands of manuscripts, stained-glass windows and frescoes, not to mention artifacts of armor and weaponspreserved in museums and castles. And then our chronology will be as follows: at the very beginning, the era of the "dark ages" - armor and weapons from 476 to 1066. Few of them have survived to our time, but still there is something, and besides the artifacts found by archaeologists, there are also miniatures in the books of that era, by which one can just judge how they looked.


Typical knightly armor from about 1400-1450, made in Italy - one of the rarest examples of European armor of this time from the collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. Collected and restored in the 1920s using individual elements found in the ruins of the Venetian fortress of Chalkis on the Greek island of Euboea, captured by the Turks in 1470. The aim of the restoration was to present a full suit of armor worn around 1400, a period from which no full suit of armor survives. Its distinctive feature is the early form of the shell (brigandin) with two large chest halves and brass borders along the edges of the protruding plates. Bundhugel bascinet helmet with visor. The velvet covering of the shell dates back to the beginning of the 168,9th century. Armor height - 18,6 cm, weight - 1929 kg. Bashford Dean Memorial Collection, a gift from Helen Fanestok Hubbard, in memory of her father, Harris S. Fanestok, XNUMX

The "Dark Ages" were replaced by the "epoch of chain mail", which lasted from 1066 to 1250. Of course, armor at that time was not only chain mail, but, as it says in the history textbook of the Middle Ages for the sixth grade, it was at that time the most important means of protection. Well, and a large shield, constantly decreasing in size, and a helmet, first leaving the face open, and then “potted” (topfhelm), completely covering not only the head, but also the face of the warrior.

From 1250 to 1330 there was a so-called "transitional period" in the history of armor. At this time, mail-plate armor spread, that is, metal plates reinforcing it began to be attached to the chain mail itself. In the period 1330 to 1410, metal plates more and more displace chain mail, so that by 1410, if it was used, it was only where the body could be protected with plates with difficulty, under the armpits, in the groin. Also, aventails were still made of chain mail for helmets - chain mail “pendants” that protected the neck between metal armor on the chest and shoulders and a metal helmet on the head. And it was preserved for so long in this place because ... it was flexible and made it possible for the knight to turn his head in different directions!


This armor is from the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Back view

But for sure, both the knights and the gunsmiths then understood that the tip of the spear, hitting the all-metal parts of such armor, could easily slide off onto the chain mail weaving of the aventail (not to mention the fact that someone could purposely aim his blow precisely at the neck of his opponent ) and hook it and even break it. That is why at the same time chain mail aventails were abandoned in favor of all-metal throat covers, arranged so that the knight could turn his head in different directions with them.


Helmet bundhugel (due to its characteristic protruding forward, it took such helmets and got its name bundhugel or “dog helmet”)

Foreign historians call the time from 1410 to 1500 the "great period" of knights in "white armor". At this time, knightly armor was not decorated in any way. They were purely functional and quite simple. The main goal that their creators set themselves at that time was to provide their owner with the maximum possible protection. It is clear that they had no time for jewelry, and the technology of metal processing at that time had not yet reached the proper height.


The metal plates of such armor - the bracers that protected the hands from blows, looked like real pipes (they were called “pipes” like that), with protruding hemispheres of the elbow pads. In England they were called wanbrus

The armor was either polished, and then they really were “white” and sparkled brightly in the sun, or they were blued, and then they were black - that, in fact, was all the decoration that was known to armor masters at that time. The armor of this time was called Gothic, since many of their parts had pointed outlines, somewhat similar to the outlines of the architectural details of the Gothic cathedrals of that time.


“Kuis”, or gaiter (in this case, the left one), was supplemented by a knee pad attached to it, which, according to Italian fashion, had a side “wing” and “lame”, stripes at the top and bottom, which helped to bend the leg without fear of opening any part for a hit. "Mane" - a leg or greave, connected with straps with buckles on the inside of the lower leg

Now let us note that the Middle Ages as such ended in 1492. It is clear that this date is rather conditional, but its choice is quite justified. The fact is that it was in this year (August 3, 1492) that Christopher Columbus discovered America. And it was this event that had the strongest influence on everything in Europe - on the economy, politics and, above all, on the spiritual life of society, which never returned to the former after that. Printing was also widely used, the year of the invention of which is considered to be 1445. And somewhere at this time, the so-called New Time began, the beginning of which is called both the events associated with the Reformation (1517), the discovery of the New World by the Spaniards in 1492, and even the fall of Constantinople in 1453. In any case, its beginning is associated with epoch-making events at the turn of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries.


Plate gauntlet without fingers. outside view


Plate gauntlet without fingers. Inside view

However, neither chivalry itself, nor knightly armor, even after all these events, did not disappear anywhere. On the contrary, they continued to develop and improve for some time, and continued to exist after 1500. That is, they "migrated" to the New Age. And they were there for another two centuries, because judging by the portraits of historical characters, they wore them even in 1700. And it was precisely the armor of this period that became both the most perfect of all that was created before that, and ... the most beautiful, which, unfortunately, the same school and university textbooks say absolutely nothing about.


Armor from the Metropolitan Museum of Art is a brigandine, covered on the outside with dark red velvet. This type of armor began to spread in Europe from 1400, but by 1500 it began to go out of fashion due to the improvement of firearms, although some samples were used for a very, very long time. This brigandine was made around 1570-1580. It is possible that this is the latest example of such armor. Weight: 10 Philadelphia Museum of Art, Pennsylvania, USA


This is the brigandine. Inside view

And since the Middle Ages just ended in 1492, the “remainder” of knightly weapons fell already in the New Age - from 1500 to 1700! Moreover, it should be noted that at first, namely from 1500 to 1600, they just reached a kind of peak in development. That is, this century was the time of their heyday. But already after 1600, they began to gradually lose their significance and disappear from noble life, although military protective equipment did not completely lose its significance in subsequent centuries, and was used during the First World War, and during the Second World War, and in subsequent time, and again - constantly improved. But it no longer had and has absolutely nothing to do with the knights. Their time is gone forever!

Well, in general, we can distinguish three epochs and six periods in the history of knightly weapons. The first is the “epoch of chain mail”, then the “epoch of mixed chain mail and plate armor” and, finally, the “epoch of plate armor”. And in each of them there are two periods: 1st era: 476-1066; 1066-1250; 2nd: 1250-1330; 1330-1410; 3rd: 1410-1500, and 1500-1700 As you can see, everything is very simple and no confusion!
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  1. +5
    26 March 2023 06: 16
    As you can see, everything is very simple and no confusion!
    You are a great confusion, comrade Shpakovsky.
    1st era: 476-1066; 1066-1250; 2nd: 1250-1330; 1330-1410; 3rd: 1410-1500, and 1500-1700

    Chain mail was woven depending on the presence of metal. And you took the English period of history.
    The chain mail is a bit short .. Baranov, the ruler of Russian settlements in America, wore chain mail, which Catherine gave him.
    1. +10
      26 March 2023 06: 38
      Quote: Mordvin 3
      wore chain mail

      And they were also worn by the Indians, obtained from the Spaniards. And what does it change? I also wore mail for several hours. But this does not mean that the "epoch of chain mail" continues now.
      1. +9
        26 March 2023 09: 41
        Quote: kalibr
        And they were also worn by the Indians, obtained from the Spaniards. And what does it change?

        It changes what their Spaniards riveted, not the Indians. Technologically more developed country. Now instead of chain mail - bulletproof vests.
      2. +7
        26 March 2023 10: 58
        Quote: kalibr
        I also wore mail for several hours.

        So the era of wearing chain mail by V. O. Shpakovsky lasted several hours.
        1. +5
          26 March 2023 11: 11
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          Quote: kalibr
          I also wore mail for several hours.

          So the era of wearing chain mail by V. O. Shpakovsky lasted several hours.

          Not at all enough for any thoughtful historical conclusions
          1. +5
            26 March 2023 14: 13
            Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
            thoughtful historical conclusions

            And they are usually made on the basis of the study of scientific literature. Why break through an open door and reinvent the wheel. Everything or almost everything was known before us.
            1. +4
              26 March 2023 15: 19
              Quote: kalibr
              And they are usually made on the basis of the study of scientific literature. Why break through an open door and reinvent the wheel. Everything or almost everything was known before us.

              On the basis of scientific literature, you consume the conclusions of the authors of this literature. And how many authors - so many conclusions - this is also confirmed by your example. Only practice is the criterion of truth. Until I got close-hauled on a drakkar, I also believed that it was impossible under direct sail, as almost all "scientific literature" claimed
              1. +3
                26 March 2023 17: 17
                Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                Until I got close-hauled on a drakkar, I also believed that it was impossible under direct sail, as almost all "scientific literature" claimed

                In the work of Maria Semenova, entitled "I will tell you about the Vikings." it's pretty well described.
              2. +1
                26 March 2023 21: 07
                Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                Until I got close-hauled on a drakkar, I also believed that it was impossible under direct sail, as almost all "scientific literature" claimed

                Write about it. It is very interesting. Not all VO readers have their own drakkar ...
                1. +1
                  26 March 2023 21: 20
                  Not a writer. Drakkar was made on a grant. We have already built several in our country. There is a video, but for some reason it does not load. At the same time, it became clear how the Latin sail was invented. When they were close-hauled, the angle of the direct sail greatly interfered.
                  1. 0
                    27 March 2023 06: 59
                    Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                    Not a writer.

                    But you write comments and quite large ones. All my experience says that there is NO PERSON, educated or even not very, who could not write an article of 8000 characters on a topic that he knows well, has a personal relationship with it and understands what he is going to write about. He can always write one article. You are simply afraid that your efforts will not be appreciated, but this is not so. Here, many published their articles for the first time and ... are alive! So you have nothing to be ashamed or afraid of. If necessary, I will help you with the editing of the material and, of course, for free. Think over the sequence of presentation - what, where, when, how, who, with what result and ... GO. It's no more difficult than sailing in a short-hauled longship.
                    Every day, writing articles with a novelty of more than 90% on Text Guide is really difficult. And one ... Just start and make sure that there is nothing complicated in this.
                    1. 0
                      27 March 2023 09: 02
                      "You're just scared that your efforts will not be appreciated" to be honest - I'm on this us - be. Other priorities and specialization. And yes, you do much better.
                      Yes, and on ships they walk, but do not swim.
                      1. 0
                        27 March 2023 21: 13
                        Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                        Yes, and on ships they walk, but do not swim.

                        So write it down the right way. Any literate person is able to write 1 article on interests. And if you don’t give a shit about people’s opinion about your article, then all the more you need to write. It's so interesting - to learn from a man who sailed on a drakkar - how it is. Do you really despise the VO readership so much that you don’t want to share your knowledge with it?
        2. +4
          26 March 2023 14: 11
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          So the era of wearing chain mail by V. O. Shpakovsky lasted several hours.

          Yes. But during this time, I learned a lot. I understood why the knights were called "proud" and why they needed quilted knee pads, and then metal ones.
    2. +10
      26 March 2023 06: 40
      Yes, no, Volodya, it’s normal for the author to write on the topics of “cases of bygone days, legends of deep antiquity.” Anything is better than about the “cursed scoop” - this is where the author “does not leave a stone flower”))) More about weapons I like to read in the old way. Sincere gratitude.
      1. +1
        26 March 2023 07: 01
        Quote: DMB 75
        Anything is better than about the "cursed scoop"

        He lived there since 1954. He taught from 1977...until 91... It seems that I know everything not by hearsay...But - whoever likes what. Who is a priest, who is a priest, who is a priest's daughter.
        1. +4
          26 March 2023 11: 00
          Quote: kalibr
          It seems like I know everything firsthand...

          Knowing and understanding are two different things.
          1. +5
            26 March 2023 14: 16
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Knowing and understanding are two different things.

            When you write a lot on a topic, Makar, you think about it and you begin to understand it, right? Much better than when you just look at life. And when you teach this topic to others, you understand it even better. I don't know why you don't know. Examples with Mendeleev and Lobachevsky seem to be a textbook ...
            1. +6
              26 March 2023 15: 50
              Quote: kalibr
              And when you teach this topic to others, you understand it even better.

              Ten times you will explain to the students, on the eleventh you will understand.

              Tag was talking to our professor of criminal procedure. smile
        2. +4
          26 March 2023 15: 10
          The daughter is better: younger, which means the body is elastic, which is doubly pleasant. Even less experience than mom - the brain will not "endure". So, our choice is unequivocal - the priest's daughter!
          1. +5
            26 March 2023 15: 52
            Quote: bulava74
            our choice is unequivocal - the priest's daughter!

            Don't tell. If the casting is for cooking borscht, then definitely hit. smile
            1. +3
              26 March 2023 20: 21
              The eternal male dispute: what is more important, to eat or to have sex?))))
    3. +2
      26 March 2023 07: 26
      Baranov, the ruler of Russian settlements in America, wore chain mail, which Catherine gave him.

      Catherine could not give chain mail to the ruler of Russian settlements in America, A.A. Baranov for the most trivial reason, since she died in 1796, and the Russian-American Company, in which A.A. Baranov became the first ruler, was founded only in 1799. In the same year, he founded the fort Novoarkhangelsk on the island of Sitka, which became the administrative center of Russian America.
      1. +7
        26 March 2023 09: 50
        Quote: Richard
        Catherine could not give chain mail to the ruler of Russian settlements in America, A.A. Baranov for the most trivial reason, since she died in 1796, and the Russian-American Company, in which A.A. Baranov became the first ruler, was founded only in 1799.

        And before that, he was a merchant of the first guild, if sclerosis does not confuse me. And met with Catherine. I read the book for a long time, about forty years ago. The Indian shot at him, the arrow bounced off.
  2. +9
    26 March 2023 06: 57
    High-quality armor, in theory, should be made with the advent of blast furnaces. And chain mail with the advent of factory wire manufacturing technology and from high-quality material.
    1. +9
      26 March 2023 08: 06
      Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
      And chain mail with the advent of factory wire manufacturing technology and from high-quality material.

      There are medieval manuscripts showing how the master does all this by hand. I recently received permission to use this manuscript in another book about the Middle Ages. Very interesting things are depicted there.
      1. +5
        26 March 2023 09: 09
        For the Middle Ages, by hand, it is possible, but for a very long time. For false Dmitry, they made armor in Italy to participate in a knightly tournament, as you know, he did not have time to put it on, and this was at the beginning of the 17th century. The second question is iron itself: from swamp or mine ore. They wrote on VO that the second type was mined in Europe in the 13th century. In Russia, as is known, at the end of the reign of Peter 1, for comparison with Europe. How much of swamp iron is it advisable to make chain mail, one must of course argue with iron experts and how long will it be stored in good quality for battle? Obtaining high-quality iron from swamp ore is not an easy and expensive process.
        1. +3
          26 March 2023 10: 12
          How much of swamp iron is it advisable to make chain mail

          Chain mail can be made from any shit, which is what they actually did. For a stabbing or crushing blow, it still sucks, no matter what it is made of. And from sliding - protects not bad even from the nastiest metal.

          As for the ore - it’s not even so much about it, although the quality of the ore is of course important, but in manufacturing technologies .. From the blast furnace - you will get one hell of a kritsa, from which you will beat out iron for a long and tedious time, and even then it will still be with slag . Hence the inability to produce large plates of uniform quality. That's why they put on chain mail and stacked armor - quality is not so important for them. In addition, only reduced iron is obtained from the blast furnace, which must then be turned into steel. And the process of carburizing to the required degree is also by no means simple .. It is very easy to mess up.

          In addition, just a little iron came out of the blast furnace .. The situation was somewhat improved by shukofen - but there the output of cast iron immediately increased sharply, with which they did not know what to do then .. In general - until they managed to raise the temperature in the furnace to exactly what iron smelting, and then - they didn’t open conversion processes, when iron was melted from ore into cast iron, and already it - by burning excess carbon was converted into steel - everything was pretty sad ..
          1. +1
            26 March 2023 11: 35
            From cuts, thick leather is better and not as heavy, fabrication is faster, can be repaired quickly and is not tenacious for snags).
            1. +5
              26 March 2023 12: 14
              On the other hand, it is not so durable, noticeably less flexible, and even in wet weather it gets wet and heavy in a moment .. In the heat, on the contrary, it dries and shrinks ... And in frost it becomes hard. No wonder the same Romans kept their leather-covered scutums exclusively in covers. Skin care needs to be taken care of. And chain mail - know to lubricate on time ..

              When I was young, I had a chic leather coat made of genuine thick leather - it still hangs in the closet. An extremely uncomfortable thing .. That’s why I didn’t wear it - so, I bought it for force.

              As for repairs, it’s a moot point .. Any blacksmith will replace a couple of torn rings on chain mail, but how to sew up a cut on a cowhide breastplate? You're exhausted..
            2. +4
              26 March 2023 15: 29
              Mail, unlike leather, is not cut at all. For armor made of leather, cattle must be killed, and this is a value - it was not in vain that the cost was measured by cattle. And not every cattle is suitable. It was easier for nomads with their herds to make leather armor.
  3. +2
    26 March 2023 07: 34
    In general, I like periodization.

    Another question is whether 6 stages are clearly distinguished in this case?

    But in order to somehow oppose, it is better to know each period.
  4. +3
    26 March 2023 08: 08
    The meaning of the knights was lost after the Western states, for the first time since the fall of Rome, were able to maintain a more or less trained mass of infantry. The same Swiss or Flemish city militias. Experience has shown that heavy cavalry can still break through the battle line, but the price will be prohibitive, after all, knights are piece goods. And more - they are generally not suitable for anything, although they stand like a modern tank. You can’t drive a knight to storm the wall, you can’t send him to reconnaissance, you can’t send him on a raid in the rear, you can’t besiege a fortress. But of course, no one wanted to admit this - so they came up with methods for maintaining the situation, for example, improving armor ..
    1. +5
      26 March 2023 08: 28
      The same Swiss or Flemish city militias.
      Flemings can be deleted. This is the usual medieval infantry, which got lucky once. Despite the fact that both before and after the Flemings were beaten with enviable regularity.
      But the combination of knights + archers or knights + artillery was used often and quite effectively.
      1. +3
        26 March 2023 08: 52
        They beat me because infantry tactics had not yet been worked out. As soon as the battles appeared, it was all over.

        Archers were not used effectively - it was the knightly militias opposing them that were used extremely ineptly .. Although - they probably could not have been used in another way. Not for that they were originally imprisoned.

        Once again - heavy cavalry can still break through the infantry formation, especially with the support of artillery. But the price is absolutely unacceptable .. An infantryman is easy to replace - but a knight? Losing even 10 percent of the knights in an attack is a disaster. And even the survivors - it’s not a fact that they will soon be combat-ready, far from every knight could immediately pull the finances like that, for example, the replacement of the killed destrie .. Well, it’s like a Merc in modern times ..

        And so - already the Burgundian wars showed everything very clearly. The Burgundians had both the color of chivalry, and excellent artillery for those times, and hired arrows from everywhere - so what? All the battles in a row were leaked with a bang and that was the end of it ..
        1. +2
          26 March 2023 11: 33
          - it was the knightly militias opposing them that were used extremely incompetently.
          Gaucher de Châtillon, Bertrand du Guesclin, Richmont and Edward III are spinning in their graves like fans
          1. +1
            26 March 2023 17: 29
            Do you think that, for example, throwing heavy cavalry across a wet field, and even in parts, onto palisades with archers sitting behind them, is the height of tactical art ??

            The knightly militia, among other things, had the main trouble - it was extremely badly managed .. For any knight was guided primarily by his concepts of knightly honor and his individual Wishlist .. Often putting with the device on all orders of commanders .. With all the consequences ..
      2. +4
        26 March 2023 10: 35
        But the combination of knights + archers or knights + artillery was used often and quite effectively.

        For some reason, people stubbornly do not notice the role of knights in the formation of tactics of infantry militias.
        Under Courtrai, about 200 knights from memory ensured the stability of the battle line, allocated a reserve, and set up a barrier. Further successes were not repeated, well, the townspeople by that time quarreled with the knights.
        Among the Scots, the earls command the shiltrons and the knights fight in the front rank.
        Among the Swiss, knights command and fight in battles and are usually company captains.
        The combination of knights and pikemen also proved to be effective.
        1. +4
          26 March 2023 11: 34
          yes, the knights themselves were infantrymen when required
        2. +3
          26 March 2023 11: 46
          Quote: Engineer
          For some reason, people stubbornly do not notice the role of knights in the formation of tactics of infantry militias.

          Classic - The Battle of the Chrysey!
    2. +3
      26 March 2023 10: 45
      Quote: paul3390
      But of course, no one wanted to admit this - so they came up with methods for maintaining the situation, for example, improving armor ..

      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    3. +6
      26 March 2023 11: 02
      Quote: paul3390
      You can’t drive a knight to storm the wall, you can’t send him to reconnaissance, you can’t send him on a raid in the rear, you can’t put him to besiege a fortress ..

      Of course, you cannot send a knight to dig a trench or glanders, although, probably, this has happened, but what you described is quite knightly occupations.
      1. 0
        26 March 2023 17: 32
        Well, yes - as long as there is something to eat and drink, and there is still hope to rob a little .. Or just not get bored. For to force a knight to do something beyond his desire is an extremely dubious occupation. This is not a hired infantryman ..
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. +7
    26 March 2023 09: 02
    Vyacheslav Olegovich,
    Thank you for the article! Periodization is an important step in any matter.
    I would argue about the early period: no knight - no knightly weapons.
    Remembering Cardini, the shock content that the knights found wherever the rider was in defense.
    This is the logic used by the authors of the textbook of the 60s. However, it's not their fault. This is how weapons were seen at that time. Recall how Alexander Nevsky in the film of the same name fights with a knight equipped as in the late XIV - early XV centuries. In historical science, a detailed study of weapons began later. And when it comes to textbooks!
    hi
    1. +2
      26 March 2023 09: 33
      I can ask a childish question: who can be considered the “first knight”? Or, for example, in what country, in what century did it appear?
      1. +6
        26 March 2023 09: 53
        In what sense - a knight? If you mean a heavily armed horseman, then these are Parthian cataphracts ..
        1. +3
          26 March 2023 11: 05
          Quote: paul3390
          Parthian cataphracts

          But aren't they Sarmatians?
          1. +2
            26 March 2023 14: 03
            Neither one nor the other
            Either European Scythians or Sakas.
        2. +6
          26 March 2023 11: 11
          Quote: paul3390
          In what sense - a knight?

          Christopher Gravett and David Nicol. Normans. Eksmo, 2007. - p. 23: To be a knight (at the beginning) meant to be a person who practices a lot with weapons in the saddle or on foot and who is asked a lot.
      2. +3
        26 March 2023 10: 00
        Quote from Korsar4
        I can ask a childish question: who can be considered the “first knight”? Or, for example, in what country, in what century did it appear?

        Richard the Lionheart. laughing
        1. +5
          26 March 2023 11: 25
          And his father was not considered, of course. As well as the two previous crusades.
          1. -1
            26 March 2023 14: 14
            Quote from Korsar4
            As well as the two previous crusades.

            are considered. But they died nameless. recourse
            1. +2
              26 March 2023 19: 29
              Louis VII? Raymond de Poitiers? And others?
      3. +6
        26 March 2023 10: 22
        I can ask a childish question: who can be considered the “first knight”?

        Sergey good morning,
        In my opinion, based on scientific literature, a knight is a unique European phenomenon: a fusion of social specifics (Christianity, external threats and the creation of a social existence system, feudalism) plus technology (chain mail, armor and a horse).
        The presence of a cataphract or cataphract, which we observe from antiquity, is not a sign of a "knight" in its specific meaning.
        The first knights - floating dates - IX - X centuries. Already carried out the definition of Georges Duby: the period of the chain mail fiev:
        "from hope to awards ... from devotion to the feudal principle, from improvisation to the system."

        .
        1. +2
          26 March 2023 10: 49
          Well, well - here are the Parthian savarans .. A heavy rider, sharpened mainly for close spear combat. They were recruited from small and medium landowners who were obliged to serve in exchange for a land allotment. What is the difference between the European knights?
          1. +3
            26 March 2023 11: 56
            They were recruited from small and medium landowners who were obliged to serve in exchange for a land allotment.

            I would like to see in what historical sources this is written? Parthian or, later, Sasanian.
            Where do the Parthians have the attributes of feudalism? What does the term "dekhkan" mean?
            And where did their feudalism go?
            What is the difference between the European knights?

            Feudalism is a unique European phenomenon, in addition to technology and the presence of a class of howling and plowing, the presence of Christianity is obligatory, as a hierarchical model of the universe.
            hi
            1. +3
              26 March 2023 12: 24
              Duc - and in those and in those. Sassanids took over the institute of savaran one to one ..

              What is feudalism? Dekhans - small landowners with the rights of a mulk. Of these, the cavalry was recruited. And feudalism there - has not gone away, it existed. It was just not as pronounced as in Europe ..

              Christianity you say? And why do you not like Zoroastrianism in this role? Likewise establishing a hierarchy? And by the way - they were no less organized in their time than, say, the Catholic Church ..

              A modern reconstruction of the savaran .. Are there many differences from a knight, say, of the 12th century?



              And here is a later Turkish sipahi ..

              1. +2
                26 March 2023 13: 01
                A modern reconstruction of the savaran .. Are there many differences from a knight, say, of the 12th century?

                I have a lot of pictures too.
                The most important thing is that these are just words for you - unsupported: there is nothing in historical sources about feudalism among the Parthians or SassanidsJust hypothesis, unproven and unsubstantiated.
                And about the reconstruction, in the same article it is written about the evolution of weapons, and you are talking about comparisons: a firearm of the XNUMXth century. also somewhat similar to the modern one, but the societies, in terms of social development, are different.
                1. +3
                  26 March 2023 13: 34
                  As I understand it - you personally have primary sources from Europe of the 12th century, where it is clearly written - by decree of King Philip-August from tomorrow we have feudalism? what

                  No? Well so then your words are just wind ..
                  1. +6
                    26 March 2023 15: 04
                    No? Well so then your words are just wind ..

                    THIS IS A SUBSTITUTION OF CONCEPTS.
                    You called the Parthians knights, and by the fact that the savaran is a feudal cavalry, you could not answer anything intelligible to my clearly posed question.
                    and began to snarl, as in elementary school: wind words...
                    There is no doubt that feudalism existed in Europe, it was not I who declared it.
                    But to prove that the Parthians had feudalism should be confirmed, and not abandoned words to the wind.
            2. +6
              26 March 2023 13: 59
              This is a dispute about terminology, ideology and economics.
              Military service for allotment existed more than a thousand years before classical feudalism.
              The Achaemenids had a special term bit sisi- "put on a horse". Hereditary. The obligations of the owner of the allotment were regulated, allotments could not be sold and were selected for failure to appear for service. Doesn't it remind you of anything?
              Of course, there were also differences. Under the Achaemenids, deputies were allowed to be appointed, while under "classical feudalism" the service was personal.
              The agreement of such a deputy of Gadal-yama with Rimut-Ninurta for which he had to serve (421 BC) has been preserved
              At the same time, relations were developing between the aristocratic elite and warrior horsemen. Such warriors lived at the court of an aristocrat and went on a campaign for maintenance. Some analogies with ministerial knights and the Russian "court"
              According to N. Sekunda, in each satrapy there were approximately three such seigneurs (“dukes”) from the most noble Persian families. Each "duke" had at his disposal 100-200 vassals ("knights"). The latter partly lived at his court (related to the “duke” or landless “knights”), partly nearby, in their own small fortified estate (Xen. An., VII.8.12), perhaps 1-2 villages in size. The “knights”, due to their vassal dependence on the “duke”, performed military service for the estate or maintenance at his court, making up his cavalry detachment 31. The noble Persians themselves were members of the royal family, friends and companions of the king, and preferred to live in large cities, at the court of the king or satrap

              http://xlegio.ru/ancient-armies/military-organization-tactics-equipment/achaemenid-empire-cavalry/
              The second, no doubt, allows for a fair amount of modernization. But the analogy is clear enough.
              I do not know what form of dependence these "knights" had from the "duke". However, such large allotments themselves were issued precisely on the condition of attending the service at the head of a whole contingent. Equestrian contingent
              As far as I can tell, the Parthians adopted at least the second scheme. The thousand cataphracts of Surena under Carr were most likely his own "court".
              The Sassanids inherited this practice from the Parthians. The word asvaran appears under the Sassanids, unknown to the Parthians, but the continuity is obvious. If only because the Asvaran corps was made up of the highest aristocracy, and six of the seven most noble Sasanian families were Parthian. Including the same Surenov.
              Dekhkans were a counterbalance to the old nobility and from the point of military service they differ in that each has land ownership and does not go on a campaign as part of the "court" of an aristocrat, but personally with his dekhkan neighbors.
              In fact, there was a return to the Achaemenid system - hereditary aristocrats with "yards" and allotment holders, personally granted by the shahanshah.

              Behind the scenes remains who directly cultivated the plot and the form of dependence of such peasants. I couldn't figure this out. Therefore, I cannot proclaim feudalism as an OEF in the Middle East, but I think they have completely scraped together "semi-feudalism"
              1. +3
                26 March 2023 15: 07
                Quote: Engineer
                subject to attendance at the head of a whole contingent. Equestrian contingent

                I'll speculate that it was the genus.
                In general, I now realized that the history of the Parthian, and even the Sasanian kingdoms, somehow passed me by.
                But as far as I understand, the Parthians are nomads who captured quite developed agricultural civilizations and came there with their tribal nomadic organization of society.
                Then, apparently, the same thing happened to them, which, for example, happened repeatedly with all nomads who "sat down" on Chinese civilization, including the Mongols.
                Probably, the clans received certain very economically developed territories of the territory as "allots", the exploitation of which allowed them to maintain military affairs at a high level and develop it, which, taking into account constant wars, looks quite natural.
                Each "duke" had at his disposal 100-200 vassals ("knights").

                I suspect it's about gender.
                However, I do not undertake to seriously argue here, my knowledge on this topic is not enough.
                1. +3
                  26 March 2023 15: 41
                  I'll speculate that it was the genus.

                  Isn't 1000 cataphracts of Surena too much for the family?
                  I suspect it's about gender.

                  They were originally from the beginning, no doubt. But in the process of development, they could well become an aristocratic clan that serves as a center of attraction.
                  The article contains many facts. She's worth a read.
                  Even if there is a clan, we see that the clan aristocracy is now structured based on the obligatory military service to the ruler and a specific land allotment. The origin becomes secondary, the main thing is the role in the new realities.
                  How did Engels write (from memory) "the roots feudalism lie in the organization of military affairs among the barbarians" laughing
                  I see similar processes here with Europe
                  Contamine writes about the faramans among the Lombards - something like an extended family, sitting in a border castle and serving as a center of gravity for a group of warriors. He also writes about the "Senior Goths" in Spain - 500 "tycoons" who had their own armed "clientella".
                  However, these barbarian kingdoms still relied on the concept of the people - the troops and all free people had to serve.
                  Among the Achaemenids, the service was the duty of just such landowners,
                  not the whole people. The concept of feudalism is much clearer.

                  At the same time, you did not speak about the individual allotments of the settler soldiers, but there everything is still more specific.
                  1. +2
                    26 March 2023 17: 08
                    Quote: Engineer
                    Isn't 1000 cataphracts of Surena too much for the family?

                    Well, probably a phratry (association of clans).
                    And then: how reliable is the figure? A thousand, as is known from examples, is by no means always a real thousand, but a kind of abstract concept that denotes either just a lot or already some kind of structure (recall our thousandth).
                    The article contains many facts. She's worth a read.

                    Regarding the socio-economic organization of the Achaemenid state, I think there is a very extensive historiography (I am not familiar with it). The article presents only the conclusions considered in a certain way. I can assume that there are other points of view.
                    At the same time, you did not speak about the individual allotments of the settler soldiers, but there everything is still more specific.
                    Don't know, read on.
                    Weren't the Persians a warrior people?
                    1. +2
                      26 March 2023 17: 34
                      And then: how reliable is the figure?

                      Quite consistent with the course of the battle. Publius had 1300 horsemen and there was a stubborn fight.
                      Weren't the Persians a warrior people?

                      It seems that the Achaemenids no longer exist. From militias to professional armies
                  2. +1
                    26 March 2023 20: 13
                    They were originally from the beginning, no doubt. But in the process of development, they could well become an aristocratic clan that serves as a center of attraction.

                    This fundamentally contradicts the whole idea about the formation of the same feudalism.
                    Without the death of a clan, no state will appear; nowhere in Europe do we see that a fief, feud, or estate would arise on the basis of a clan.
                    But the transition of the kind of tribal clan into the society of a territorial community, as much as you like.
                    Such was the nomadic-semi-nomadic society of the Parthians.
                    For a feudal lord, in addition to "chain mail", a horse and "placement", feudal dependents are also needed.
                    The issuance of land for service, such as fiefdoms, or the right to collect income, is methodologically not feudalism.
                    And finally, does it mean that the nomadic society of the Parthians was, both technologically and socially, sharply higher, since it was early feudal, than any of the Romans?
                    hi
                    1. +2
                      26 March 2023 20: 55
                      This fundamentally contradicts the whole idea about the formation of the same feudalism.

                      The genus in this case is extended family, surname. "Clan of Rurikovich", etc.
                      Such was the nomadic-semi-nomadic society of the Parthians.

                      It has not been nomadic or semi-nomadic since at least 1 AD.
                      The Parthians have quite a state with a bureaucracy and a tradition borrowed directly from the conquered peoples, just as the Franks partially retained the Roman administration.
                      For a feudal lord, in addition to "chain mail", a horse and "placement", feudal dependents are also needed.

                      It is an element of feudalism. I wrote with a caveat
                      I don't know what form of dependence these "knights" had on the "duke"

                      Behind the scenes remains who directly cultivated the plot and the form of dependence of such peasants. I couldn't figure this out

                      And further
                      The issuance of land for service, such as fiefdoms, or the right to collect income, is methodologically not feudalism.

                      Again
                      Therefore, I cannot proclaim feudalism as an OEF in the Middle East, but I think they have completely scraped together "semi-feudalism"


                      And finally, does it mean that the nomadic society of the Parthians was, both technologically and socially, sharply higher, since it was early feudal, than any of the Romans?

                      No, it doesn't. Just like the feudal Germans and French were technologically and socially inferior to the Romans sometime before the 15th century.
                      1. +3
                        26 March 2023 21: 03
                        Just like the feudal Germans and French were technologically and socially inferior to the Romans sometime before the 15th century.
                        But this is very controversial!
                      2. +4
                        26 March 2023 21: 19
                        But this is very controversial!

                        Give me your version.) No problem
                      3. +3
                        26 March 2023 21: 38
                        Okay, Denis, I'll give you my version. Chatted, damn it, and provoked!
                      4. +4
                        26 March 2023 21: 19
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Therefore, I cannot proclaim feudalism as an OEF in the Middle East, but I think they have completely scraped together "semi-feudalism"

                        By the way, why not scrape together for feudalism, say, in Mycenaean society? It’s not even semi-feudalism, but quite a feudal feudalism turns out:
                        - there are allotments for service - there are: From the tablets we know that lavagents, hekvets and telests had corresponding large allotments for their service.
                        Are there well-fortified castles? a lot, quite a feudal fragmentation is outlined.
                        - clear militarization of high society: the cult of war, weapons and all that
                        - there are knightly weapons (armor from Dendra) and knightly cavalry (so far only on chariots of course)
                        - the code of chivalry that has come down to us in heroic songs
                        - "cherry on the cake": there are even crusades - the Trojan War.
                        PS Feudalism has always existed! hi
                      5. +1
                        26 March 2023 22: 01
                        By the way, why not scrape together for feudalism, say, in Mycenaean society?

                        I am for it
                        More feudalisms good and different
                        From the tablets we know that lavagents, hekvets and telests had corresponding large allotments for their service.

                        Hereditary?
                      6. +1
                        27 March 2023 08: 58
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Hereditary?

                        It is supposed to be conditional. Here is an approximate translation of the text:
                        the wanak (king) has a land of 30 GRAs. Earth lavaget has 10 GRA. Telests of all the earth have 30 GRA. Telestov only 3 men. Cultivated but abandoned land is only 6 GRA.

                        Lavaget - translated as "people's leader", there are different interpretations, but most believe that this is a military leader.
                        Hekvets are companions, comrades: they were allocated, judging by the tablets, war chariots and they led some detachments.
                        PS In general, we in any traditional agricultural society, the entire basis of which is built on the basis of the cultivation of the land and has already reached at least an early class state, one way or another we will find a part of this cultivated land (allotments) associated with the existence of an "army" in one form or another.
                      7. 0
                        28 March 2023 12: 41
                        the wanak (king) has a land of 30 GRAs. Earth lavaget has 10 GRA. Telests of all the earth have 30 GRA. Telestov only 3 men. Cultivated but abandoned land is only 6 GRA.

                        in general, we in any traditional agricultural society, the entire basis of which is built on the basis of the cultivation of the land and has already reached at least an early class state, one way or another we will find a part of this cultivated land (allotments) associated with the existence of an "army" in one form or another.

                        Few. The land should be specifically granted for the obligation to carry out military service. Then you can put a tick - an element of feudalism is evident.
                      8. 0
                        27 March 2023 07: 05
                        Quote: Mihaylov
                        Feudalism has always existed!

                        That is why it makes no sense to divide society into feudalism and slavery. It is easier to divide according to the criterion: is there non-economic coercion or not? And then only three epochs are obtained. It is clear that everyone is in development!
          2. 0
            27 March 2023 00: 54
            Quote: paul3390
            Well, well - here are the Parthian savarans ..
            . They were recruited from small and medium landowners who were obliged to serve in exchange for a land allotment. What is the difference between the European knights?
            Knight from Europe, Samurai from Yamato - noble family - all other commoners ... (except for the king, dukes, earls, barons and others like them)
            hi
        2. +4
          26 March 2023 11: 05
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          The presence of a cataphract or cataphract, which we observe from antiquity, is not a sign of a "knight" in its specific meaning.

          In addition, they did not have a high saddle and stirrups!
          1. +3
            26 March 2023 12: 31
            Yes - but already in the 8th century they were already in full growth in the east of the heavy cavalry !! When in Europe the knights were just hatching ..
        3. +4
          26 March 2023 11: 22
          Perhaps closer to this point of view. Knight is a European product. Although prototypes can be found in any civilization.
        4. +7
          26 March 2023 11: 51
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          the knight is a unique European phenomenon: a fusion of social specificity

          Good afternoon, Edward!
          I believe that chivalry is primarily a socio-political institution, brought to life by the formation of a certain socio-economic formation, and the armament complex is already a secondary point. hi
          1. +6
            26 March 2023 13: 02
            Greetings Sergey!
            I believe that chivalry is primarily a socio-political institution, brought to life by the formation of a certain socio-economic formation, and the armament complex is already a secondary point.

            Agree hi
            1. +3
              26 March 2023 14: 27
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              Agree

              + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
      4. +4
        26 March 2023 11: 03
        Criteria blurred
        It is possible to note milestones of evolution. Purely technical and organizational moments
        Herodotus mentioned that among the Massagetae in the battle with Cyrus, both people and horses are protected by armor.
        Already laid out here an ostracon from Koi-Krylgan-Kala somewhere around 3 BC. A horseman without armor, but for the first time a two-handed grip for ramming appears. Judging by the hat, saka tigrahauda
        Battle of Gaugamela 331 BC The debut of cataphracts according to Olbricht. Long spears, armor, close combat, squad action.
        The Battle of Fata 310-309, the outcome of the battle was decided by the Scythian contingent, who delivered a ramming blow
        Battle of Panion 200 BC the first mention of cataphracts under this name
        Ai-Khanum, Bactria (Afghanistan) - mid 2nd century BC excavated characteristic cataphract armor, including laminar arm protection
        Parthian and Armenian cataphracts were first mentioned in the 1st century BC
        Sarmatian heavy cavalry - in the 1st century. AD
        Roman cataphracts - 2nd century AD
        Roman Clibanaria - 3rd century AD
      5. +5
        26 March 2023 11: 22
        Quote from Korsar4
        in what century did it appear?

        It depends on what definition you give to the very concept of "knight". A heavily armed mounted spearman? Castle owner? A person who adheres to certain rules of behavior? Or all together? smile
        1. +3
          26 March 2023 11: 36
          I love a systematic approach. Together. In extreme cases, a beautiful lady can be excluded.

          I'm undecided about the lock.
          1. +7
            26 March 2023 11: 57
            I'm undecided about the lock.
            Don't be determined. William Marshal Pembroke I in his youth had nothing but chain mail, a horse and a spear. However, he became the standard of chivalry.
            1. +1
              26 March 2023 17: 04
              Decided about the same. The absence of a lock is not a critical barrier. At the beginning of life.
            2. +2
              26 March 2023 17: 45
              To be literal, William Pembroke had everything, including the most enviable wife.
              Here is some son of Guillaume de Marechal, in the despicable Saxon language William Marshall, really did not even have decent chain mail.
              1. +2
                26 March 2023 17: 50
                It was through his wife that he became the Earl of Pembroke, and began as a landless knight.
        2. +2
          26 March 2023 14: 27
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Or all together?

          Yes!
      6. +6
        26 March 2023 11: 57
        I can ask a childish question: who can be considered the “first knight”?
        a knight is a man in iron and on a horse, who robs unfortunate peasants and has the status and social ethics that allows him to do this.
        1. +6
          26 March 2023 12: 29
          Replace iron with bronze and get Odysseus.
      7. +4
        26 March 2023 15: 14
        Good afternoon, Sergey! smile

        I wonder what order the notorious Fagot belonged to, before he joked so unsuccessfully about "light and darkness."

        1. +3
          26 March 2023 17: 42
          Quote: Sea Cat
          I wonder what order the notorious Fagot belonged to, before he joked so unsuccessfully about "light and darkness."

          The Order of the Holy Spirit, probably, because he wore purple colors, and these are the colors of the Medici kings, who seemed to belong to this order. But not a fact. Yes, guess.
          1. +3
            26 March 2023 19: 20
            Purple is undeniable.
            Florence? Don't know.
          2. Fat
            +1
            27 March 2023 08: 30
            Greetings, Vladimir.
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            The Order of the Holy Spirit, probably, because he wore purple colors, and these are the colors of the Medici kings, who seemed to belong to this order. But not a fact. Yes, guess.

            Unreliable. The Medici kings are epochal. Physicians and bankers did not climb higher than the Grand Dukes of Tuscany. Well, except for queens.
            Violet may be characteristic of Lombardy, purple of Toranto...
            The purple color in the attire of a knight at a tournament could mean love ... Well, in some cases - resourcefulness and duplicity. request
        2. +2
          26 March 2023 19: 19
          Good evening, Constantine!

          It remains only to guess.
          By the way, I think about it from time to time.
          1. +2
            27 March 2023 00: 24
            Yes, this worries me too. And also this "unfortunate joke about light and shadow", you, by any chance, do not know what it is about and what kind of real knight?
            1. +1
              27 March 2023 01: 21
              Look what you found. But this is also only a piece of the hypothesis:

              The bachelor Sanson Carrasco, one of the main characters in Bulgakov's dramatization of the novel "Don Quixote" (1605-1615) by Miguel de Cervantes (1547-1616), served as a kind of prototype of the knight Fagot here, in all likelihood.

              Sanson Carrasco, seeking to force Don Quixote to return home to his relatives, accepts the game he has started, pretends to be a knight of the White Moon, defeats the knight of the Sad Image in a duel and forces the defeated man to promise to return to his family. However, Don Quixote, returning home, cannot survive the collapse of his fantasy, which has become his very life, and dies. Sanson Carrasco, the Knight of the White Moon, becomes the unwitting culprit in the death of the Knight of the Sorrowful Image. The duke tells Sanson after Don Quixote is wounded that "the joke has gone too far", and the dying hidalgo calls Carrasco "the best knight of all", but a "cruel knight".
              1. +2
                27 March 2023 01: 49
                It's interesting, but somehow it doesn't really fit with the very joke "about light and shadow". A little stretched, in my opinion.
                1. +1
                  27 March 2023 06: 57
                  Also not convinced. There are several more versions. One figure - Guillaume Tudelsky became interested.

                  However, I won't watch it next week.

                  And there it is still unknown what the head will be stuffed with.
                  1. +1
                    27 March 2023 15: 52
                    RESEARCHER, BORIS SOKOLOV, suggested that the roots of the "joke" should be sought in Bulgakov's staging of "Don Quixote":

                    In general, how many researchers, so many assumptions. request

                    https://proza.ru/2011/06/03/578
    2. +3
      26 March 2023 10: 49
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      And when it comes to textbooks!

      Good afternoon Edward! At one time I wrote a textbook for the 6th grade in Middle Ages. But ... in the end it turned into a book to read - "Knights. Castles. Weapons." Now the book "The Brilliant Middle Ages. Knights and Castles" is being prepared for publication. (period before 1500).
      1. +5
        26 March 2023 11: 58
        "Knights. Castles. Weapons".

        Read it with my son and really enjoyed it.
      2. +5
        26 March 2023 12: 00
        The son of my second wife was very surprised when I told him that swords were not worn on the back, and Viking helmets were not decorated with mighty cow horns. So you still have a lot of work to do.
        1. +2
          26 March 2023 13: 13
          The son of my second wife was very surprised when I told him that swords were not worn on the back.

          Some swords were worn. For example - samurai sword odachi.
        2. -1
          26 March 2023 14: 31
          Quote: sivuch
          The son of my second wife was very surprised when I told him that swords were not worn behind the back,

          So why did you lie to him? As comfortable as they are worn. And most likely - behind the back. For when rowing, it will interfere if it dangles on its side.
          1. +2
            26 March 2023 15: 35
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            Quote: sivuch
            The son of my second wife was very surprised when I told him that swords were not worn behind the back,

            So why did you lie to him? As comfortable as they are worn. And most likely - behind the back. For when rowing, it will interfere if it dangles on its side.

            On the side, the sword almost does not interfere with rowing, again, the sling with the sword is easily removed. With a sword on your back, it is impossible to row at all, and walking, touching everything and everything with a protruding handle, is very inconvenient, and you can only take out a sword from behind your back for a short time - it is also very inconvenient, especially in armor.
          2. +3
            26 March 2023 15: 47
            So why did you lie to him? As comfortable as they are worn. And most likely - behind the back. For when rowing, it will interfere if it dangles on its side.
            Firstly, out of politeness, one could say that he did not lie, but made a mistake. Secondly, that’s why they didn’t wear it, which is inconvenient. Difficult to take out and impossible to put back in. If it is fixed only from above, on the shoulders, then when walking / riding it will hit on the back, if it is fixed both from above and below, then it will be impossible to pull it out. therefore, in all European and not only images, a sword, saber, sword, scimitar and other bladed weapons are worn on the belt - on the side or lower back. Zweihanders were simply worn on the shoulder, like a hoe. a longer sword or konchar was attached to the pommel of the saddle.
            As for the odachi, as I understand it, these weapons were the last to be used in combat. Even Rusvika writes in plain text - Odachi, which were used as weapons, were too large for samurai to carry them like ordinary swords. There were two ways to wear.
            Behind the back. It was impractical because it was impossible to draw the sword fast enough.
            Another method was simpler - carrying a sword in hand. In the Muromachi era, it was customary for a samurai to be followed by a squire who, at the right time, helped to pull the odachi from its scabbard.
            1. +1
              26 March 2023 18: 09
              The length of the Viking sword was 77-80 cm. I just took a 77 cm stick, and for the sake of experiment I put it in the collar. It’s quite okay to take it out like that, especially when you consider that I’m tall - a meter with a cap. In addition, armed behind the back with a sword, like a katana, or a saber, it has the advantage that it does not need to be turned over like a waist saber, a blow can be struck immediately. And yes. Vikings did not fight on horseback. Before the battle they dismounted. But it’s just on a horse that it’s more convenient to carry a blade on your side. And as for the difficulties with stuffing it into the sheath, then, firstly, this is a matter of technology, and secondly, why, in fact, did it have to be stuffed quickly? The main thing is to get it quickly. And I also advise you to give Semyonova's five-volume "Wolfhound" to read to the offspring.
              1. +3
                26 March 2023 18: 48
                And are you going to walk or ride in this form (with a sword behind the scruff of the neck)? He's sharp, too. For some reason, images of such heroes have not been preserved - more and more on their sides, in sheaths or without. By the way, a Viking sword was a luxury - they usually used something cheaper. Theoretically, a langsax could be worn behind the back, but again there is no evidence. And most importantly - no one needs it. But quickly grab and quickly clean up - you need. You can't jump on a horse with one hand occupied.
                Although I will no longer be surprised at the musketeer   Negro African-American with a sword behind his back. This is going to be impressive.
              2. +1
                26 March 2023 19: 17
                You don’t need a stick by the scruff, but a sword in a sheath - you will see a big difference due to the design of the scabbard attachment
        3. +1
          26 March 2023 15: 39
          A strong argument, the absence of cow horns on the helmet, against the distortion of justice!.
          It's embarrassing to admit, but I thought the same before your post.
          Oh, and the "European partners" are fooling us ...
  7. +1
    26 March 2023 09: 14
    It is a pity that the author does not understand child psychology. A child at the age of 12 is not up to the classification of knightly armor by year, he has other interests.
    And this grumbling:
    "But maybe it would be worthwhile for those who create .... textbooks to think a little. Maybe instead of making a real vinaigrette out of historical information, give a harmonious periodization of such an important and interesting phenomenon in the history of mankind as chivalry, and at the same time breed their armor and weapons for centuries." (c)
    once again proves that raising children and writing textbooks for them should be done by professionals, not propagandists.
    1. +4
      26 March 2023 09: 37
      I think that a boy - a girl of this age may be interested.

      The first ones that come to mind are:

      1. Ivanhoe.

      2. Equestrian figurines. By the way, they don't cost that much.

      I remember I bought it for my son and daughter after visiting the museum.

      Another family passes by. Remark of the head of the family: "They are chic."
      1. +3
        26 March 2023 10: 08
        Quote from Korsar4
        1. Ivanhoe.

        He arrived from Palestine, he was overshadowed by military glory, He, through the whirlwinds of battles and thunderstorms, carried the Cross on his shoulders. In battle, His victorious shield was covered with scars ...
      2. +6
        26 March 2023 10: 39
        I think that a boy - a girl of this age may be interested.

        I will support you!
        Since I am a soldier, a collector of toy soldiers, an exhibition of soldiers has been held in Moscow for two years now. The boys' eyes are on fire, you see. At least mine is aware, but it also opens its mouth. And the prices for good Russian-made soldiers are biting.
        And he went out into the street: and then Nintendo, Marvel and Tik Tok: what are the knights of the Middle Ages! Modern children are not up to them.
        hi
        1. +5
          26 March 2023 11: 27
          After the question asked, I already decided that I would bring my grandson from trips.
      3. +3
        26 March 2023 11: 03
        Quote from Korsar4
        Remark of the head of the family: "They are chic."

        Fools are always more than smart!
        1. +3
          26 March 2023 11: 30
          Each family has its own way. But the middle generation of children actively played these toys.

          Yesterday my grandson (1 year 9 months) was sorting out a box of cars. So the Jaguar was found 40 years ago.

          Passed the street, and lost part of the doors. But there was something to remember.
          1. +2
            26 March 2023 14: 59
            Quote from Korsar4
            Yesterday my grandson (1 year 9 months) was sorting out a box of cars. So the Jaguar was found 40 years ago.

            Also collected. And then he got tired, put them on the balcony and shot them all from the air. Seagull, Zhiguli, Moskvich ... But a couple of copies have been preserved. My sister has a Volga, a GAZ 24-pickup. I have some kind of import crap. But what I really feel sorry for is the iron tanks, cannons, armored personnel carriers, painted green. As they say, what we have, we do not store, having lost, we cry. Here are a couple of specimens from the beautiful-far away.
    2. +3
      26 March 2023 10: 46
      Quote: ee2100
      It is a pity that the author does not understand child psychology. A child at the age of 12 is not up to the classification of knightly armor by year, he has other interests.
      And this grumbling

      "I will solve someone else's misfortune with my hands" - propagandists - they are.
      Children now read with difficulty - a comic book for them is a BOOK. So the textbook correctly gives the necessary minimum of information - whoever needs it - reads more, goes to the historical reconstruction club, etc.
      1. +2
        26 March 2023 14: 30
        Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
        gives the necessary minimum of information

        Wrong information! Let there be a minimum - but correct!
        1. +1
          26 March 2023 15: 46
          Quote: kalibr
          Wrong information! Let there be a minimum - but correct!

          And this is not always possible - historians, for example, still do not know what they wore in Rus' in the Middle Ages - pants or chausses. And why do children need all these difficulties? A textbook is not a scientific treatise, but literature adapted for a certain age and country with certain assumptions and conventions.
          1. +2
            26 March 2023 17: 05
            Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
            historians, for example, still do not know what was worn in Rus' in the Middle Ages

            Why did you decide that?
            1. +1
              26 March 2023 19: 06
              And give the facts from the "scientific works" that they wore - you will see that no one knows for sure
              1. +2
                26 March 2023 20: 55
                Everything about ports has been known for a long time. By the way, this article is not written for children at all, but for adults. Who sometimes look, yes, like perfect children.
                1. +1
                  26 March 2023 21: 03
                  You are far from the topic. but your proposal was to educate children, not adults.
                  1. 0
                    27 March 2023 07: 50
                    Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                    but your proposal was to educate children

                    Of course! The textbook test should be corrected... Not much, but corrected.
          2. +2
            26 March 2023 17: 07
            Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
            but literature adapted for a certain age and country with certain assumptions and conventions.

            That's it! But there is no need to write that inside the "pig" of the forest, infantry in armor and with axes marched against Alexander Nevsky, as it was written about in one of the history textbooks for the 4th grade. Luckily, we managed to get it out of circulation. So the degree of "assumptions" should correspond to the data of science, and not to the opinion of one author alone.
            1. +1
              26 March 2023 20: 25
              Quote: kalibr
              That's it! But there is no need to write that inside the "pig" of the forest, infantry in armor and with axes marched against Alexander Nevsky, as it was written about in one of the history textbooks for the 4th grade. Luckily, we managed to get it out of circulation. So the degree of "assumptions" should correspond to the data of science, and not to the opinion of one author alone.

              Do you, as an eyewitness, have other information about this battle? The "scientific data" that you so pray for is just the theoretical opinion of a certain person based on certain facts known at the moment. His interpretation of known facts. Since new facts are found regularly, historical theories change just as regularly. And all the struggle of historians for their theories is stupid to put on the pages of a textbook for children.
              1. +2
                26 March 2023 20: 52
                Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                Since new facts are found regularly,

                New facts about infantry with axes are not found anywhere!
                1. +1
                  26 March 2023 21: 01
                  You are far from the topic, but the old facts have not been refuted either.
                  1. 0
                    27 March 2023 07: 49
                    Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                    You are far from the topic, but the old facts have not been refuted either.

                    And where, in what annals is it written about infantry with axes? Is this an "old fact"?
              2. +2
                26 March 2023 20: 53
                Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                it is foolish to put it on the pages of a textbook for children.

                It is stupid to write something that is not supported by anything. However, they write!
                1. 0
                  26 March 2023 21: 02
                  What self-irony. It's good that you acknowledge this at least sometimes.
                  1. 0
                    27 March 2023 07: 48
                    Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                    What self-irony. It's good that you acknowledge this at least sometimes.

                    For you, this is the height of wit, I suppose. But in reality, I can confirm every position and figure from what I wrote. It's just that VO is not a scientific site. Links to primary sources only take up space (no one reads them anyway) and make it difficult to read.
    3. 0
      26 March 2023 10: 50
      Quote: ee2100
      once again proves that raising children and writing textbooks for them should be done by professionals

      Exactly. That is why two of my books on the history of the Middle Ages are included in the list of references of the textbook for grade 6 to deepen knowledge. Professional educators read, evaluated and inserted.
      1. +6
        26 March 2023 10: 55
        They also "inserted" Solzhenitsyn - and what does this prove?
        1. +3
          26 March 2023 14: 33
          Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
          and what does this prove?

          Quality! Try to write a book yourself that would meet all the requirements of pedagogy and history of the 6th grade of secondary school on the history of the Middle Ages, and then you will understand that this is a complicated matter. As for Solzhenitsyn... Are his books badly written or difficult to read? Won "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich". Is it bad to read? Just what is needed for the corresponding perception of the corresponding things.
          1. +7
            26 March 2023 14: 42
            Won "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich". Is it bad to read?
            Only this story by Solzhenitsyn reads normally. Everything else is written so bone-tonguingly that Pikul's monstrous word constructions seem to be the quatrains of Agniya Barto.
            1. +4
              26 March 2023 14: 53
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              Only this story by Solzhenitsyn reads normally. Everything else is written so bone-tonguingly that Pikul's monstrous word constructions seem to be the quatrains of Agniya Barto.

              Good afternoon Anton,
              took everything off the tongue hi
          2. +1
            26 March 2023 15: 52
            "Try to write a book yourself" - why? You yourself, always move away from technical issues under the slogan "my business is to propose an idea - your business is to develop it to a working state" and "everyone should mind their own business." And for the school, literature is not selected for quality, you don’t know.
            1. +1
              26 March 2023 17: 10
              Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
              And for the school, literature is not selected for quality, you don’t know.

              I would advise you to get acquainted first with the list of references in the history textbook Cf. Centuries for the 6th grade, and only then "perform".
              1. +1
                26 March 2023 19: 08
                familiar. Other arguments, more serious, no?
                1. 0
                  26 March 2023 20: 50
                  Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                  familiar. Other arguments, more serious, no?

                  So that's all they don't know well.
                  1. +2
                    26 March 2023 20: 53
                    When there is nothing to object to, we begin to be rude? Or we have a different understanding of what quality is.
                    1. 0
                      27 March 2023 07: 44
                      Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                      When there is nothing to object to, we begin to be rude? Or we have a different understanding of what quality is.

                      I didn't even start to be rude. Objecting to me to you is just pissing against the wind. And, yes, the understanding is different. You have a layman and an amateur, "who is interested." I am the author of 30 monographs and several hundred scientific papers. The opinion about them is also made up of specialists, and not amateurs who cannot write an elementary article. These are the decision makers. Their opinion matters. Yours is not. That's all.
                      1. +1
                        27 March 2023 08: 54
                        But you "piss against the wind" when you write your books trying to tell something to "most fools" (as you say). Despite a considerable amount of your printed works - from the point of view of any professional historian - this is fiction, not science - despite the references - there is no system, the conclusions are superficial and often erroneous. Here, once again, the quantity does not play a role. But as a popularization of this science for a certain age and level of knowledge - very good. As for specialists, Fomenko is also a specialist with his own "scientific school" and "scientific works", and Dud made many more programs and films about history than you, but you won't call him a historian.
                        And ask what is the opinion of your work among history reenactors - you will be very surprised.
                      2. 0
                        27 March 2023 21: 22
                        Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                        And ask what is the opinion of your work among history reenactors - you will be very surprised.

                        Least of all I am interested in the opinion of amateurs. I am a little familiar with some - for the most part a miserable picture - dropouts who imagine that waving pieces of iron can prove something to someone. It can be useful and necessary, yes, I do not argue. but not always. Instead of arguing with me, you'd better write an article. there would be much more benefit.
                      3. -1
                        27 March 2023 23: 22
                        How far are you from history since you don’t see the difference between the “reddish infantry” for which the main goal is to “get drunk and stab” and professional reenactors - reconstructing life, things, weapons, armor, etc. And seeing replicas of artifacts in museums, I didn’t have the brains to understand that these replicas are made by just those reenactors whom you call amateurs. But here is parity - from the point of view of reenactors, your opuses are rated approximately the same as "wretched amateurishness"
                        Google the "historian" of the work of Eric Dube, Dmitry Khramtsov - these are all the reenactors you so despise.
                      4. 0
                        28 March 2023 06: 24
                        Ivan! Kind of weird. There is enough gunpowder for comments, but there is no way to write an article about your sailing on a longship. Something is wrong here. And I don't need to google anything. I had critics more serious than the Russian Humanitarian Foundation, the Russian Foundation for Basic Research, the Institute of Oriental Studies. Once again, everything that I have written has links to the work of very reputable authors. Mistakes? Yes, they were in the first book in 1997. Knights of the Middle Ages. But then, having become acquainted with the historiography of the issue - a monograph on this topic was published in Germany - I was convinced that it was either all a mistake that many historians, both ours and foreign, wrote, or ... I simply don’t have them. It's so easy to figure it out, right? I do not pretend to be any discoveries, but my compilations come out very well. So what are you talking about, Ivan? You can't devalue world historical science like that. Once again - write something yourself. And we will see and evaluate everything. And so there is nothing to evaluate - only empty words without specific references.
        2. 0
          26 March 2023 15: 05
          Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
          They also "inserted" Solzhenitsyn - and what does this prove?

          Did you compare Shpakovsky with Solzhenitsyn? laughing
          1. 0
            26 March 2023 21: 05
            Well, Mr. Shpakovsky is easier and more interesting to read than Solzhenitsyn, although there are no less lies.
  8. +8
    26 March 2023 09: 46
    But perhaps it would be worthwhile for those who create such textbooks to think a little. Maybe instead of making a real vinaigrette out of historical information, it would be worth giving a harmonious periodization of such an important and interesting phenomenon in the history of mankind as chivalry, and at the same time diluting their armor and weapons over the centuries. There is something to rely on...

    There really is something to rely on. What’s more, you don’t have to stress too much. Everything is ready, moreover, in a form convenient for perception.
    Once lived in the USA Bashford Dean (1867 - 1928). The personality is unique. The only person to hold two positions at the same time - one at the American Museum of Natural History as an ichthyologist, and the other at the Metropolitan Museum of Art as a specialist in medieval weapons and armor.
    Once he thought about how to quickly and clearly talk about the evolution of European knightly armor. And he came up with. And his friend, illustrator Hashime Murayama, brought the idea to life. Here's what they got.



    Simple and clear. Until now, the authors of books about armor use. In the same form, there is a periodization of armor elements. For example - brush protection.


    A little explanatory text, perhaps refreshing the periodization in the light of modern trends - and a finished textbook. Here for what class - it is necessary to think.
    There are serious doubts about the fact that in the 6th grade a child will be interested in such a question. Although the same Bashford Dean took up the study of armor at the age of six. But this is rather an exception to the rule.
    1. +7
      26 March 2023 10: 53
      I have seen those diagrams. My doctoral topics are the English-language historiography of armor and weapons. But I don't want to take it one by one...
      1. +6
        26 March 2023 11: 31
        But I don't want to take it one by one...

        And why one to one. It is enough to use the principle. Modern achievements of science and technology make it possible to present the process even in dynamics. Yes, even the simplest PowerPoint allows you to change everything beyond recognition, using, for example, concrete armor from museum collections instead of abstract drawings.
        1. +3
          26 March 2023 14: 36
          Quote: sergej_84
          And why one to one. It is enough to use the principle. Modern achievements of science and technology make it possible to present the process even in dynamics. Yes, even the simplest PowerPoint allows you to change everything beyond recognition, using, for example, concrete armor from museum collections instead of abstract drawings.

          You are right, of course, but I myself cannot write and draw at the same time. And ordering someone is just a lot of money, which I do not have.
          1. +2
            26 March 2023 14: 51
            You are right, of course, but I myself cannot write and draw at the same time. And ordering someone is just a lot of money, which I do not have.

            You will not believe it, but there are people for whom money does not matter if their name is among the group of authors who created some famous printed product. You are very familiar with the work of Osprey Publishing. Their illustrator is always indicated specifically. Yes, and with a portrait and a brief biography. Excellent advertisement. You can really "go down in history."
            1. +2
              26 March 2023 17: 12
              Quote: sergej_84
              You will not believe it, but there are people for whom money does not matter if their name is among the group of authors who created some famous printed product. You are very familiar with the work of Osprey Publishing. Their illustrator is always indicated specifically. Yes, and with a portrait and a brief biography. Excellent advertisement. You can really "go down in history"

              I will not believe! I have not met such people in any of the publishing houses known to me. Including Osprey.
          2. +2
            26 March 2023 15: 58
            I will add to the next answer to your remark.
            Many young people aged 14-17 are very good at modern computer software, including art (drawing).

            And, I agree with your subsequent commentator: "If you beckon with a carrot in the form of an art assistant, then everything can work out with pictures."
            Allow me some advice. Try contacting art schools and art studios. There are many young and very ambitious people there. But, try to focus on girls - they are less arrogant and more accommodating, as well as executive.
            1. +2
              26 March 2023 17: 15
              Quote: bulava74
              Try contacting art schools and art studios. There are many young and very ambitious people there. But, try to focus on girls - they are less arrogant and more accommodating, as well as executive.

              Do you think you are the only smart one? I turned more than once, fortunately, I have a whole Savitsky school and two worst schools at my side. But... either they don't have the ability to draw(!), or they are obsessed with the thirst for money (and again they don't know how to draw!), or they're just fools... Otherwise it would have been a long time ago...
              1. +1
                27 March 2023 13: 15
                As the Gospel says: "Seek and you shall find."

                There are sites for freelancers: I myself ran there a couple of times - I needed art. I agreed, as there are many beginners who want to collect a "portfolio" of real work. and orders - from this comes their real promotion in the rating.
                Make an announcement about the order there and be sure to indicate the possibility of being mentioned in assistants. publication of the book. Your work is needed and, hopefully, it will be published.
                Good luck and... don't be offended by friendly advice. You will succeed.

                In short
                1. 0
                  27 March 2023 21: 33
                  Quote: bulava74
                  do not be offended by benevolent advice.

                  Why be offended by trying to help you. But ... what you propose, I call the word "twitch." And I'm not at the age when it's interesting. I have one very good artist and that's enough for me. There are publishers. where there are also artists - if necessary, then let them do all this. And I have to look for new ones and convince them of something ... just too lazy!
    2. +2
      26 March 2023 18: 50
      Quote: sergej_84
      Bashford Dean

      Now I looked again at his scheme with warriors: a Norman warrior in a jumpsuit with pants and no armor in the "anime" style, but it would be necessary ...
  9. +7
    26 March 2023 09: 53
    I carefully read the article.

    Plate gauntlet without fingers. Inside view

    Yes, here they are, my gloves!
    Chinese, apparently made, but very good. You put on and fasten the cuffs that wrap around your wrists, and you are already wearing medieval knight gloves without fingers, but without a metal lining, because there is no need for it.
    That means when the first samples were created!
    Smiled ...
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! hi )))
    You don't know where you'll lose and where you'll find - that's it wassat )))
    1. +2
      26 March 2023 10: 10
      Quote: depressant
      Yes, here they are, my gloves!

      Well, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, thank you, you made me laugh. love
      1. +3
        26 March 2023 10: 45
        Volodya, glad to have cheered you up! hi )))
        Morning should start with a smile, even forcibly stretching your lips in it, if you don’t feel like smiling at all - it is useful for maintaining mental health. In our "difficult time")))
  10. +7
    26 March 2023 10: 37
    My personal opinion.
    You cannot teach the history of the Middle Ages in high school, based on such a highly specialized topic as the periodization of the evolution of armor. If my history teachers had taken out my brain with such crap, I would not have returned to this topic 30 years later.
    1. +3
      26 March 2023 10: 54
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      You cannot teach the history of the Middle Ages in high school, based on such a highly specialized topic as the periodization of the evolution of armor. If my history teachers had taken out my brain with such crap, I would not have returned to this topic 30 years later.

      You can write a lot of things with the same words, right?
    2. +5
      26 March 2023 10: 56
      My personal opinion.
      You cannot teach the history of the Middle Ages in high school, based on such a highly specialized topic as the periodization of the evolution of armor.

      By the way, if you follow the logic of the author, along with the periodization of the armor of knights, it is necessary to study the periodization of weapons. He presented sixth-graders arguing at recess why Oakshot from swords of types X and XII singled out the subtypes Xa, XIIa, respectively.
      1. +3
        26 March 2023 14: 38
        Quote: sergej_84
        if we follow the logic of the author, along with the periodization of the armor of knights, it is necessary to study the periodization of weapons.

        If you follow the logic of the author, then it is enough to slightly correct the basic text in Vedyushkin's textbook. Nowhere is it written that this periodization should be included in the textbook for the 6th grade. Such a thing can only come to mind from a strong hangover.
    3. +5
      26 March 2023 11: 01
      Here, as with literature - they are forced to read books according to the list - hatred arises both for literature and for reading books. Everything is good in moderation - education too.
      1. +1
        27 March 2023 07: 38
        Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
        Everything is good in moderation - education too.

        There is no such thing as a good education. Some develop throughout life.
  11. +3
    26 March 2023 11: 00
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    on such a highly specialized topic as the periodization of the evolution of armor.

    And from where it is clear that someone would like to do this. VO site for adults...
    1. +4
      26 March 2023 12: 50
      Then why are Agibalova and Vedyushkina mentioned in the material? And this paragraph is written:
      But perhaps it would be worthwhile for those who create such textbooks to think a little. Maybe instead of making a real vinaigrette out of historical information, it would be worth giving a harmonious periodization of such an important and interesting phenomenon in the history of mankind as chivalry, and at the same time diluting their armor and weapons over the centuries. [/ I]
      1. +3
        26 March 2023 14: 16
        By the way, for the sake of interest, I looked at the methodological literature on the presentation of the history of the Middle Ages in British schools. There it is studied in high school. And they completely ignore such technical issues as the evolution of armor, weapons, locks, and so on. The emphasis is on the socio-economic issues of the development of society.
        1. +3
          26 March 2023 14: 32
          The emphasis is on the socio-economic issues of the development of society.
          I think this is the most correct model for studying history. In principle, nothing new, in the Soviet school there was the same method, only with the pedaling of the class struggle.
        2. +2
          26 March 2023 18: 43
          Quote: sergej_84
          The emphasis is on the socio-economic issues of the development of society.

          I would not say that it strongly educated them. A couple of times I talked in foreign countries with ordinary Englishmen - when it came to mediaeval times, everything was darkness and a whirlwind ... What I told them was perceived as a holy revelation. However, our tourists in the bus too... The level is the same!
      2. +4
        26 March 2023 14: 42
        Anton, all this can be done very easily, in simple words and in an interesting way. What is written here is written for adults, and for children it is quite possible to write all this according to their mind. By the way, I have 2 books for children "Knights" and "Crusaders" (series "School Encyclopedia"), it was on this principle that you wrote and published in St. Petersburg. No one said that they are difficult to understand and written incomprehensibly. On the contrary, everyone who reads notes that it is written in an interesting, simple and understandable way.
        1. +3
          26 March 2023 21: 14
          And yet, Vyacheslav Olegovich, if I happened to write a textbook for the sixth grade, I would start with economics. Oddly enough, but teenagers are very well versed in primitive commodity-money relations. Probably because our cubs themselves build a hierarchical model of society, according to age.
          1. +2
            27 March 2023 07: 35
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            I would start with economics

            And I...
  12. 0
    26 March 2023 18: 26
    All good health. I would not say that I am interested in the topic, but I read Ivanhoe, Dorward, watched films. So I'm a little on topic. And willingly "hung out", but a friend, you know her - Vera, wanted to commit suicide and swallowed pills. Well, the stray guessed to call the "ambulance"
    She called Martha and me. I don't know anything yet.
    From with the permission of Vyacheslav Olegovich, I will also convey my regards to you. When he comes to.
  13. +2
    27 March 2023 09: 39
    The author criticizes the compilers of textbooks.
    Maybe instead of making a real vinaigrette out of historical information, it would be worth giving a harmonious periodization ...
    I would like him, when creating a "slender periodization", to give illustrations with armor samples corresponding to each era, and not to "go in cycles" with only one sample
    1. 0
      27 March 2023 21: 36
      Quote: Sovpadenie
      gave illustrations corresponding to each era with samples of armor, and did not "go in cycles" in only one sample

      Yes it would be nice. But it will all be in the books. "The Brilliant Middle Ages. Knights and Castles" will be released soon. It will all be there. It is possible that there will be a sequel - "Knights of the heyday and sunset."
  14. 0
    27 March 2023 21: 23
    Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
    are often wrong.

    Oh really? And who determined it?
  15. 0
    April 4 2023 14: 29
    Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
    On the side, the sword almost does not interfere with rowing, again, the sling with the sword is easily removed. With a sword on your back, it is impossible to row at all, and walking, touching everything and everything with a protruding handle, is very inconvenient, and you can only take out a sword from behind your back for a short time - it is also very inconvenient, especially in armor.


    Why even carry a sword with you when rowing? Put it next to you, under the bench, in front of you.
    By the way, it was long swords that were worn behind the back ... just a long (two-handed) sword on the belt will reach the ground, which is inconvenient. Usually standard (one-handed) swords, of course, were worn on the belt. After all, the scabbard is called that because it is at the foot.
    Knights, on the other hand, usually did not carry swords themselves, like other weapons. Armsmen - why? The name of their function is reflected quite clearly. The knights / knights themselves took weapons only before the battle.
  16. 0
    April 4 2023 14: 35
    Quote: cat Rusich
    Knight from Europe, Samurai from Yamato - a noble family - all other commoners ... (except for the king, dukes, counts, barons and others like them)


    Why couldn't Asiatic landowners be considered noble? If they had notions of honor, and along with land plots, they could also receive peasants for feeding?
    Whatever one may say, they are quite nobles.
  17. 0
    April 4 2023 14: 55
    Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
    In my opinion, based on scientific literature, a knight is a unique European phenomenon: a fusion of social specifics (Christianity, external threats and the creation of a social existence system, feudalism) plus technology (chain mail, armor and a horse).
    The presence of a cataphract or cataphract, which we observe from antiquity, is not a sign of a "knight" in its specific meaning.


    And what external threats did European knights have in the 9th-10th centuries? Who seriously threatened Europe there?
    Byzantium? Or maybe the Saracens?
    Alas, the reason for the emergence of European chivalry is not so lofty and romantic.

    The European aristocracy is the essence of external conquerors. Germans: Goths, Saxons, Franks, also Normans later pulled themselves up.
    After the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, all these warlike barbarians began to subjugate the former imperial territories. Divide them among themselves, coupled with two-legged native cattle. And since there were still much more natives, they posed a certain danger to the newly-minted owners, despite even a much lower combat capability. The desire to maintain control over the local population and gave rise to a specific image of social organization and way of life, known as "feudalism". The former provinces were divided into destinies, which made it difficult for the locals to unite, a very specific "authority" with his own gang of professional warriors was responsible for control over each specific area. Castles had to be built so that in the event of a rebellion of the natives, one could sit out while waiting for help from a neighboring authority. Some large cities defended their right to be independent, they had to recognize the status of "free" for them. This is how feudalism came about.
    Since every authority was, in fact, a small king, it was necessary to introduce the irrational concept of "knight's honor", otherwise this whole system would be too loose.

    In short... basically, the feudal system was geared not to repel external threats, but to social stabilization and the preservation of elite dominance. The collision with external challenges has shown that it is not too good for conducting full-scale military operations. The European feudal knights were raked from both the Egyptian Mamluks and the Turkish Janissaries in the Crusades. The European team performed so-so at the regional tournament, despite its large number and, supposedly, advanced technologies (which actually lost to their Asian counterparts).