Military Review

New army will not be

47

The military reform, which was carried out by former Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov, will definitely not be continued after the appointment of Sergey Shoigu to his place. This conclusion was made on Wednesday by the participants of the meeting of the Moscow Political Club "Rosbalt".

True, the experts dispersed in determining the reasons for the completion of the reform of the army in its current form. Some believe that it is impossible to continue something that did not have a specific goal, while others believe that the goal was just there, but under current conditions the authorities will no longer be able to achieve it for political reasons.

Reform Serdyukov can be divided into two areas. Modernization of weapons and a fundamentally new structural organization of the Russian army. According to military expert Alexander Golts, the main challenge that Serdyukov faced was the need to "resolve the issue of the manning principles" of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Namely - to abandon the concept of mass mobilization.

The analyst sees the sources of this decision in the statements of Vladimir Putin since the beginning of the second Chechen war, when for a military operation it was not possible to form a combat-ready and fully equipped compound of only 60 thousand people, with the total formal strength of the army then more than 2 million people.

In addition, according to Alexander Golts, the previous head of the Ministry of Defense had the idea that until about 2025, the army should be ready, first of all, to conduct local conflicts, the standard and example of which was the war in South Ossetia in 2008. Russia’s full-scale continental conflict involving conventional weapons, due to the “demographic hole”, simply lacks human resources.

The consequence of this was the "brigadier" principle in reforming the army, because to solve the problem, the choice should be made between returning to a general military call for two or three years or a gradual long-term transformation towards a contract army.

“Brigadier contract” is tracing from the US Army, ”Anatoly Lokot, deputy head of the Communist Party faction in the State Duma, member of the commission for the legal support of the development of organizations of the defense industry complex of the Russian Federation, agrees. According to him, the United States has been 200 they did not wage global continental wars, using their army in local conflicts. For Russia, such copying, with its historical experience and extended land borders, was very dangerous.

Not to mention the fact that the "reformedness of the reform," says Lokot, is clearly "in question." After all, the most efficient units were often disbanded.

At the same time, on the second key issue related to how weapons will be modernized in the future, and therefore the Ministry of Defense will develop relations with the Russian defense industry, experts generally agreed that the conflict that took place during Serdyukov was clearly will end.

True, the reasons for this they see different.

One of the key reasons is political, Alexander Golts believes. “Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin’s nuclear electorate works precisely at these plants, in these single-industry towns,” he explains the reason for the sudden emergence of interest in power in the Russian defense industry, which had not been very popular with Minister Anatoly Serdyukov before.

Moreover, his irritation was understandable, the expert notes, because Serdyukov needed a modern weapon at a competitive price, and the defense line inherited by Russia from the USSR could not produce it.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, conditionally "civilian" plants ceased production of those components that they previously manufactured, which could be up to 80% of the necessary parts. As a result, receiving a large order, the defense enterprises for a long time were forced to stop assembly and begin production of components, which made the resulting products "golden."

For social and political reasons, today this problem has suddenly ceased to interest the Russian leadership. So it’s hardly worth expecting that Sergei Shoigu will continue the fight with the MIC enterprises started by Serdyukov for the best price-quality ratio.

“Shoigu is experienced enough to distinguish between half-tones and hints,” and he probably understood that you shouldn’t get involved in this business. It is not necessary to buy from the "defense industry" exactly what the army needs. Rather, we must agree on what they can actually produce, "Golts notes.

In turn, Anatoly Lokot is convinced that the problem was that, under Anatoly Serdyukov, the army turned into a WLLF - Russian Military Joint-Stock Company, and instead of competing on tactical and technical characteristics, the choice was made on the basis of product prices.

What is extremely dangerous for the defense industry, and for the future of the army, and even for the future of the country. According to the communist deputy, it must be admitted that entire defense industries are lost today, but there is a chance to correct the situation.

For this, "the customer must have a headache, how will the weapon be made." So, if the Ministry of Defense, headed by Sergei Shoigu, is able to create a system of full-fledged quality control of military products, together with the system of joint responsibility of the ministry and manufacturers, in the future this will solve the problem of saturating the army with modern, high-quality and competitive weapons.

The only question is whether the new minister has enough political will and authority to avoid the problems that led to the resignation of his predecessor. And the answer to this question will not be clear until next year, when the time comes to implement the state defense order for 2013 year, scandalously failed in the previous two or three years.
Author:
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http://www.rosbalt.ru
47 comments
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  1. Shuriken
    Shuriken 16 November 2012 14: 26
    +7
    For this "the customer must have a headache, how the weapon will be produced." So, if the Ministry of Defense, headed by Sergei Shoigu, manages to create a system of full-fledged quality control of military products, together with a system of joint responsibility of the ministry and manufacturers, then this will in the future solve the problem of saturating the army with modern, high-quality and competitive weapons .------ -------- Isn't comrade Rogozin set for this? In my opinion, Shoigu's task is to gather real professionals from all branches of the military and military-industrial complex enterprises, and decide: what weapons are needed and what the defense industry can actually produce, based on these requirements. And forward, the tsar gave denyuzhku ...
    1. Slayer
      Slayer 16 November 2012 16: 24
      +6
      Reform has destroyed the Soviet system; there is no new one yet. And again, turning back to the Soviet system, increasing service to 2-3 years makes no sense, again there will be a mess of 10-15 years in the army. Now you need to continue the reformation of the army, but very carefully, thinking through every step, create divisions in each district staffed by professionals who will be fully operational at any time, to protect them with the best technology. Once you have decided to conscripts gradually remove and replace them with professionals, you need to open schools that will train such professionals
  2. Nechai
    Nechai 16 November 2012 15: 20
    +21
    "Brigade contract" is a copy of the US Army "- the comrade DOES NOT KNOW history, neither the Russian army, nor the armies of the world. This is not the American, but the Western principle of the" detachment "army. And always, following this principle, the Russian army suffered defeats. This is only for the iPad, everything is dashing and simple, as he sang - “from the cubes we need at the moment, we quickly put together the grouping we need in this place.” The miracle has no idea THE MAIN thing, for a Russian fighter, the feeling of a COMRADE ELBOW!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 16 November 2012 15: 27
      +19
      Quote: Nechai
      This is only for the iPad, everything is dashing and simple, as he sang - "from the cubes we need at the moment, we quickly add the grouping we need in this place"

      And why did you think up something yourself, they planted it in ministerial seats and began to sketch from the west. It is surprising that we have a victorious combat experience, and we take examples from hell who knows.
      1. bask
        bask 16 November 2012 16: 25
        +2
        In Russia there was a regimental principle of construction, an army. And 1000 years ago, the words of Igor’s regiment. Regiments at the ,, Kulikovo ,, battle. Western tracing does not suit us. And when, always, did the Russian army tolerate the creatures ??? ??. But this is not the main thing. The main thing is that the Ministry of Defense does not revise the concept of creating combat platforms, Boomerang, Kurganets, Armata ,,, and then suddenly a new idea appears in the bowels of the Ministry of Defense. With a period of implementation of up to 20-30 years! !!
      2. taseka
        taseka 17 November 2012 08: 47
        +5
        drinks Russia forced itself to respect - when the "tsars" wore military uniforms!
        1. bask
          bask 18 November 2012 09: 14
          0
          taseca Why only kings ??? Joseph Vissorionovich Stalin. Throughout the war in the Second World War took place in a military tunic. And he died in it ((by the way, well-worn)) And there was a superpower !!! The main thing is people. , their talent, who controls the troops and the state ...
          1. taseka
            taseka 19 November 2012 17: 44
            0
            Yes! And here he is in a tunic !!!
    2. YARY
      YARY 16 November 2012 15: 43
      +19
      Bitch!
      The armies of our probable and undoubted adversaries are modeled according to the type of a "gang" that is more cultured, a brigade.
      And they are tasked "gangster".
      In a real army, the offensive front ie ahead - the enemy and it must be destroyed to zero!
      From the rear, everything is "cleaned up, and only our own!"

      To propose a model of our enemies for building our army is to simplify the task of destroying our troops in case of war!
      I can give a more detailed explanation but, easier so-
      "The fact that the enemy is clear and familiar, reveals all the" cards " and any action is known to the enemy. But to impose something that is incomprehensible to him, to put the enemy in the position of "blind and deaf" is already a victory "
    3. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 16 November 2012 15: 43
      +9
      Quote: Nechai
      And always, following this principle, the Russian army suffered defeats.

      Well said, Valery.

      From myself I will add:

      Analysts have already gotten into the garden with this: “continue Яforms of a stool or don’t continue” ... urgently TO RESTORE the country's defense capability !!! Leaving, of course, that little useful that is in the reform:

      1. Restore divisions, while leaving separate brigades: each military unit on each theater has its own application: it’s stupid to hit a nail with a sledgehammer, but you won’t even chop wood with a chisel, you need a cleaver.
      2. Rebuild a shattered unique military science before it’s too late.
      3. Finally, to establish the command and control system of the troops, they destroyed the old one, but there is still no new one.
      4. To restore the destroyed mob.preparation, without it, Russia will definitely die in the event of a widespread conflict.
      5. Remove the fucking outsourcing, (before the cost of washing a set of clothes cost 20 rubles, now it’s “effective” to cost 50 rubles, and so on).
      ... Yes, and even dofiga everything ...

      First of all, it is necessary to restore emergency what the RF Armed Forces cannot do without, and then argue: continue reforms or how ...
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 17 November 2012 02: 28
        0
        What you propose crosses out the essence of the military reform of Serdyukov / Putin. Agree, utopian under the current government.
    4. rolik
      rolik 16 November 2012 16: 33
      +20
      Especially touches the abundance of military anal sexethics with interesting names Goltz, Felgenhauer and others in this spirit, And they are often expressed as our mattress friends, everywhere they have CHALLENGES. The Russians have always had - problems with which they fought, and the mattresses and their satellites - challenges.
      Perduk's reform was divided into two parts - the modernization of weapons and the new structural organization of the Russian army. If, according to Predyukovsky, modernization is understood as a general purchase of Western technology (with the position of kickbacks in the pocket), then it was almost possible - they kicked out of the chair in time. Reforming the structure of the army is a moot point. Mattress makers with allies have never (in modern history) fought with an enemy, even approximately equal to themselves. Therefore, the "mobility" of the brigades is questionable. With their insufficient firepower, which takes time to build up, the brigade will be rolled into a pancake by the enemy, whose weapon will be comparable to that of the aggressor. The fact that the brigades will unite into larger formations is also a controversial issue, but what about the coherence of the interaction of different brigades brought together into one large unit? It is easier to form a division so that it can quickly transform into several smaller formations, let's call them "brigades" too. Then it really becomes possible to send these "brigades" to small operations, which will, at the same time, be backed up by the entire might of the division. This is of course a virtual solution and only mine. But the Perdukovski reform is also intended to resolve only small conflicts, without taking into account large-scale military actions.
      Further, another maxim of Mr. Goltz.
      when, for conducting a military operation, it was not possible to form a combat-ready and fully equipped formation of only about 60 thousand people, with a total formal army size of more than 2 million people.
      It is about the 2nd Chechen. True, this "analyst" completely forgets what state the army was in by the period of the second Chechen thanks to the "wise" policy of Boris the drunkard. Only thanks to our guys, their courage, and really correct actions not parquet generals victory was achieved.
      And what is striking about these so-called anal sexItikov, Shoigu did not have time to sit in the ministerial chair, and they are already commemorating him. All that they advise him. He is without you gentlemen anal sexIchiki knows what to do. Fortunately, the advisers now don’t wear skirts, but in normal trousers with stripes and the field uniform in their anxious suitcase lies.
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 16 November 2012 16: 56
        +14
        Quote: rolik
        Mattress mates with allies have never (in modern history) fought with an enemy, even approximately equal to themselves. Therefore, the "mobility" of the brigades is questionable. With their insufficient firepower, which takes time to build up, the brigade will be rolled into a pancake by the enemy, whose weapon will be comparable to that of the aggressor. The fact that the brigades will unite into larger formations is also a controversial issue, but what about the coherence of the interaction of different brigades brought together into one large unit? It is easier to form a division so that it can quickly transform into several smaller formations, let's call them "brigades" too. Then it really becomes possible to send these "brigades" for small operations, which will, at the same time, be backed up by the entire might of the division. This is of course a virtual solution and only mine.


        Wonderfully said, Roman! It is very difficult to organize interaction and combat coordination of individual brigades, and this was shown by extreme exercises. Plus from the Soul.

        From myself I will add:

        Who the heck did the divisions prevent ...
        Who is stopping in the division from making the 1-2 regiment deployed, and the remaining parts of the reduced composition or generally carded? It is desirable, of course, that the nearby "partisans" clearly know to which unit they are assigned, where their weapons and equipment are located, and at least once a year they pay well-paid fees.

        1. Local conflict? Please: they took a deployed regiment, stuffed into it the attached divisions of the division necessary for this theater of operations (it has EVERYTHING) and instantly got the Regimental Tactical Group ... you can call it a buzzword - Brigade.
        2. Large-scale fighting? Please: the partisans (who are on a constant low pay), who knew well what to do, whistled "for" 1-2 days and got a combat-ready division: at least a "tank tour" on the English Channel in two weeks, at least insert a quick-eyed pendell.

        I don’t understand why to reinvent the wheel when it was invented long ago?!?!?! Upgrade? You are welcome ! But why break it and invent it again ...
        Radishes are cutters.
        1. saruman
          saruman 16 November 2012 18: 05
          +4
          Quote: Aleks tv
          Quote: rolikMattress with allies never (in modern history) fought with an enemy, even approximately equal to themselves. Therefore, the "mobility" of the brigades is questionable. With their insufficient firepower, which takes time to build up, the brigade will be rolled into a pancake by the enemy, whose weapon will be comparable to that of the aggressor. The fact that the brigades will unite into larger formations is also a controversial issue, but what about the coherence of the interaction of different brigades brought together into one large unit? It is easier to form a division so that it can quickly transform into several smaller formations, let's call them "brigades" too. Then it really becomes possible to send these "brigades" for small operations, which will, at the same time, be backed up by the entire might of the division. This is of course a virtual solution and only mine.

          Wonderfully said, Roman! It is very difficult to organize interaction and combat coordination of individual brigades, and this was shown by extreme exercises. Plus from the Soul. I’ll add from myself: Who the heck did the divisions prevent ... Who's stopping the division from making 1-2 regiments deployed, and the rest of the reduced squad or even carded at all? It is desirable, of course, that the nearby "partisans" clearly know to which unit they are assigned, where their weapons and equipment are located, and at least once a year they pay well-paid fees. 1. Local conflict? Please: they took a deployed regiment, stuffed into it the assigned divisions of the division (it has EVERYTHING) needed on this theater, and instantly got the Regimental Tactical Group ... you can call it a buzzword - Brigade. 2. Large-scale fighting? Please: the partisans (who are on a constant low pay), who knew well what to do, whistled “turned around” in 1-2 days and got a combat-ready division: at least a “tank tour” to the English Channel in two weeks, at least insert a quick-eyed pendell. I don’t understand why to reinvent the wheel when it was invented long ago?!?!?! Upgrade? You are welcome ! But why break it and invent it again ...


          I quote again. I have not read such sensible comments for a long time. I fully support.
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 16 November 2012 19: 12
            +2
            Quote: saruman
            I fully support.


            Thank you for your kind words, Roman. hi

            They didn’t say anything fabulous, it’s so that my heart ached.
            Frankly, I typed the text without seeing the comments “rolik”, and when I read it, I was amazed that we think the same way ... I didn’t post my scribbles separately and made an “answer” to the comment to your namesake. It also happens that thoughts converge, he is amazed. lol
            1. rolik
              rolik 16 November 2012 21: 20
              +2
              Aleks tv Thanks Alexey, we live in one country and see what is happening around. It is not surprising that so many people agree on what is happening.
              1. Aleks tv
                Aleks tv 16 November 2012 21: 33
                +2
                Quote: rolik
                in one country we live and see what is happening around


                To the point. good
          2. rolik
            rolik 16 November 2012 21: 22
            0
            saruman Roman, thanks from Roman drinks for the tip.
          3. mike_z
            mike_z 18 November 2012 19: 35
            +1
            Yes, this is natural! I fully support! why the hell was it all so "modernize" is not clear. I would also add about the rear, and especially the engineering support. Why the hell have they shoveled everything without creating anything?
      2. s1н7т
        s1н7т 17 November 2012 02: 34
        -4
        Quote: rolik
        Shoigu did not have time to sit in the ministerial chair, and they are already commemorating him. All that they advise him. Even without you gentlemen, analysts know what to do.

        True? How does he know? He is a "shpak" representing the interests of the "family". What does he know about the army, about operational art? He will continue the work of Serdyukov. Maybe using other methods, but the result will be the same. Don't believe me? Ask Putin. And he will say - everything was right, we must continue. And what's the difference - in skirts or not? The result is one. KGB against the army. The army is losing, alas.
    5. vezunchik
      vezunchik 16 November 2012 17: 37
      +1
      I agree that the Russian people are strong in friendship, so try to disrupt us!
    6. Kaa
      Kaa 16 November 2012 19: 55
      +3
      Quote: Nechai
      This is not an American, but a Western principle of the "detachment" army.

      This is the principle of the Landsknechts who. if you recall history, they have always been distinguished by the absence of any principles, which is now noted by the American troops in Afghanistan, and where they allegedly "left" - in Iraq, finding a replacement in the form of PMCs. It was smooth on paper iPhone, but they forgot about realism, replacing it with the virtualism of "computer wars". And in general, "what is good for a German is death for a Russian."
  3. Sarus
    Sarus 16 November 2012 15: 28
    +3
    Shoigu has the strength to at least not continue Serdyukov’s reform ...
    Let's see what happens, but taking into account how she created the Ministry of Emergencies, I think that the Defense Ministry will only benefit from such a leader.
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 16 November 2012 17: 58
      +3
      Given the experience of Shoigu as a rescuer, we will extinguish the fires of democracy around the world and there is a suitable technique-TU-160
  4. aleksey
    aleksey 16 November 2012 16: 01
    +1
    I don’t even know what to put plus or minus to the author ..... put a plus.
    When choosing a title for an article, think with your head!
  5. anoha68
    anoha68 16 November 2012 16: 15
    +1
    If the political club, what does the army have to do with it? The army is outside of politics and politics, climbing inside the army does only harm. If Moscow, why the rossbalt? Dear (???), well-known (???) experts, the usual political little tip: then like this, if it’s so different, if it’s so. And I, as a member of the all-Russian non-political unregistered (unfortunately) club of soldiers, sergeants, warrant officers and reserve officers of the Soviet-Russian army, I think that the old army was destroyed, the new- haven’t created yet. And if you don’t bring what will begin, only multimillion-strong guerrilla groups from this club will be able to exhaust and defeat any probable enemy. Urgently need caches with weapons, ammunition and dry up!
  6. Altor86
    Altor86 16 November 2012 16: 25
    +3
    Only with the restoration of the structure of the Armed Forces can we talk about the defense capability of our country. And the structure of outsourcing is in the trash. They do nothing, only budget money is scammed. Believe me, I’m a military man, I haven’t seen anything good from outsourcing. Only unsubscribe, there is no money. Roofs are leaking, sewers does not work. And this is at a facility of special importance. 2 years have passed in battles with "Slavyanka". At the exit-0. am
  7. Yankuz
    Yankuz 16 November 2012 16: 32
    +1
    And in the photo - CHILDREN ARE STILL !!!
    1. Alexei
      Alexei 16 November 2012 16: 50
      +2
      "War is the case of the young - a cure for wrinkles ..."
    2. rolik
      rolik 16 November 2012 17: 03
      +9
      Yankuz These are the same "children" at the Moscow frontier post they kept bearded until the last bullet. These guys, our hope, well, we will not pump up the old people - in which case soldier
    3. thatupac
      thatupac 16 November 2012 17: 38
      0
      Well, adults are weaklings. Out. They turned Moscow into Maskvabad and do not even whimper.
      1. Artem6688
        Artem6688 16 November 2012 22: 19
        -2
        Adult wimps, and you went)
  8. baltika-18
    baltika-18 16 November 2012 16: 46
    0
    But what were we at the time, not the same? Yes, we were also eighteen, but sometimes it seems to me that at 18 we were older than the current 18-year-olds, something more responsible.
  9. Nechai
    Nechai 16 November 2012 17: 21
    +2
    Quote: bask
    And when ,, always ,, the Russian army suffered the creatures ?????

    Offhand, Crimean, Japanese, and the 1st World War often went along this path.
    You dear "regimental" and "detachment" DO NOT confuse, please. In the detachment, it is the close-knit, interacting, complementary military unit that is TORNED into component parts and sent to different sectors of the front to perform various tasks. And it turns out not so beloved by our reformers "Lego", but VINIGRET. Where no one knows or understands, hopes and does not help. To put it mildly, the ideologues of the "new look" spat on the very human factor! "Aine kollone-marshirt! Tsveite kollone-marshirt!" The same principle is adhered to that the falsifiers ascribe to Stalin - little people cogs, executing the "brilliant" commands of the rulers. How they dream about it! But it didn’t grow together, it’s beyond the ears of Western inhabitants to “drive through” to rule in Russia ...
    1. bask
      bask 16 November 2012 18: 11
      0
      Nechai The examples you cited are not the topic. Because in both cases. The emperors, as it were milder, were a few people not competent in military matters ... the Second World War also tried to introduce, at 40 m, corps brigades And, what happened, a complete defeat ,,, in 41, returned to the ,, classic ,, division .. As the Soviet army fought in Afghanistan. A company, a battalion, a regiment, a division, an army .. Losses with such resistance of the mujahideen were minimal. In the airborne forces only divisions. And the feeling, elbow, is an order of magnitude higher than that of motorized riflemen. For marines, yes brigades, And the controllability of troops depends, competence and talent of military leaders and political leadership ... I didn’t put a minus
      1. Artem6688
        Artem6688 16 November 2012 22: 20
        -1
        And you did not think that the war did not have time to bring to mind the idea of ​​"corps-brigade"
  10. Nechai
    Nechai 16 November 2012 17: 56
    +2
    PS. I recalled that Stalin expressed to the then leading Red Army tandem Timoshenko and Zhukov, analyzing the reasons for the failure of the measures taken by the NCO-GSH of the Red Army, that you are feeding the Wehrmacht piece by piece arriving at the front by the Red Army divisions.
    Doesn’t resemble the new year in Grozny?
    1. bask
      bask 16 November 2012 18: 22
      +3
      Nechai Brigades, Berlin, they wouldn’t have taken it. In a critical situation, in the battle for Moscow. Namely fully equipped divisions, Siberian ones, stopped the Germans and carried out the first counterattack in the Second World War. DRIGADS This is a policy ,,, gunboats, in China and Indochina in the 19th century ... Which is continued by amers around the world. And now. Underneath, this is with them and all the armored vehicles on wheels.
      1. Bigriver
        Bigriver 16 November 2012 22: 08
        +1
        bask
        Fully equipped division of the Red Army in 43-45 - this is, in fact, a brigade, but with 3/4 of the division’s fire weapons.
        MK is, roughly, the shrunken equivalent of the Wehrmacht TD.
        After the 45th - TC steel TD.
        Your speech is not at all clear.
        What are you speaking about?
  11. Botanologist
    Botanologist 16 November 2012 18: 08
    -1
    Sorry, but this is not an article, but an incoherent set of thoughts. About nothing.

    Does the new minister have enough political will and authority to avoid the problems that led to the resignation of his predecessor.

    What are the reasons for the resignation of Taburetkin? I mean real, not a set of our thoughts that we grind here.

    And discussions about brigades, the Russian style of war, etc., are a set of meaningless platitudes. Analysis, if you have something to say.
  12. Lissyara
    Lissyara 16 November 2012 18: 14
    +1
    That's honestly, a joke in the subject.
    “When Shoigu opened the table in Serdyukov’s office, he found there a book“ The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and Its Management for Dummies ”read to the core.
  13. AK-74-1
    AK-74-1 16 November 2012 18: 17
    +3
    I would put a well-deserved "PLUS" on all the commentators. It is very pleasant that everyone is not indifferent to our people's army.
    I want to dwell on the economic effect of the army. I see nothing bad in the Military Russian Joint-Stock Company for the following reasons.
    1. There are special units - here you can steal the secret you need and you can get a sabotage from a potential partner, which is not a great way to make money;
    2. There are vehicles - you can help your own country with the "northern delivery", you can transport people from inaccessible places to the country and practice for aviators, not to mention the provision of services to "potential partners" for the transportation of their property and personnel from one hot spot to another. At the same time, you can have fun with the pirates by sending them on their last voyage in an unknown direction. And how can space be without it, where else can our planet be examined in detail.
    3. There are a large number of armed people - whole countries can be taken under protection or under arrest, as you like, I personally liked occupied Germany very much.
    All this as a whole is worth the investment of our common efforts and time on the creation of our army, so that we can remember with a smile about the "wood-burning" divisions, the "igloo" in the "phantom" and "melon" somewhere near Hanover.
  14. homosum20
    homosum20 16 November 2012 18: 36
    +3
    Today, on duty, he has been talking for a long time with one of the leaders of the northern ship repair enterprise (naturally, repairing non-walking parasites).
    To my phrase, “the Baba battalion has been dispersed, now this garbage with documentation has disappeared, he calmly said - and who told you that he was dispersed?
    And in general, in his intonations, I heard the satisfaction of a man who could trample on the bones of the one who stomped him for a long time, but did not notice any sense of relief.
    Everything that does not happen, gentlemen officers, is happening for the better.
    But it will not be better.
  15. IlyaKuv
    IlyaKuv 16 November 2012 19: 27
    +3
    I think it is necessary to maintain conscription service, but at the same time develop the contract system. Let me explain: If we completely switch to professional military personnel, this can increase their level of combat training, but at the same time the number of possible military personnel will sharply decrease, and the budget for their maintenance will be huge. It's another matter if these two systems were in balance, in peacetime, contract soldiers improve their combat skills, ensure security, conduct local operations and train conscripts, and in a big war, the state would be able to call in reservists and provide a sufficient number of people at the front. But the West is not "the smartest", you give a blind imitation.
    1. thatupac
      thatupac 16 November 2012 23: 03
      0
      It is not a matter of the budget, but of the number of volunteers who want to plunge headlong into army life and service for 3-5 years. Despite the fact that we do not have allies like NATO, the volunteers for our defensive Army need to be decent. Contractors are not goods, not equipment, but people. People do not go, the interchangeability of those who served under the contract and want to replace them at zero. So who are you going to staff the contract Army with? Tajiks, Caucasians and Chinese or what? Ha ha ha laughing )))) ...
  16. Mr. Truth
    Mr. Truth 16 November 2012 19: 40
    +3
    About the brigades.
    If I were the reformers, I would not copy the experience of these mentally ill in the USA or Geyrop. In the future, there is no place for "light and lethal" troops, which one hundred percent of us want to create.
    Douglas McGragor, one of the best officers of our time, has already invented everything for these geniuses. His "battle groups", shifted to the conditions of Russian realities and capabilities, would be very useful.
    1. Artem6688
      Artem6688 16 November 2012 22: 26
      0
      Well, of course, you know better what the armies of the future will be than western and domestic experts
      1. Mr. Truth
        Mr. Truth 18 November 2012 00: 53
        0
        Quote: Artem6688
        специалисты

        No, but I believe that many "specialists" have lost their sense of reality.
        1. Artem6688
          Artem6688 18 November 2012 21: 56
          0
          Well, here you are, one in reality, and specialists in another dimension)
          1. Mr. Truth
            Mr. Truth 19 November 2012 00: 38
            0
            Artem6688,
            Specialists are where the war will come last. And when they roll, they will think whether it was necessary to produce soldiers in mine-action trucks, or to make an emphasis on "heavy cavalry" from tanks, armored personnel carriers, armored vehicles and self-propelled guns.
  17. tupolev-95
    tupolev-95 16 November 2012 20: 15
    +1
    Reform of Serdyukov: 1st stage-collapse, 2nd stage-development of dough. That's the whole reform, nothing new is happening yet.
    1. Artem6688
      Artem6688 16 November 2012 22: 27
      -5
      1. Get hold of a psychologist
      2. Collect money for treatment
      3. Be treated
  18. I think so
    I think so 16 November 2012 20: 16
    0
    These "reformers", having ruined the army behind them, which won many wars, tried to copy the structure of the army, which had not won a single (!) War. Where is the logic? Where is the point? History teaches that a serious large-scale war is won not by professionals, but by RESERVES under the command of professional military personnel. And it was precisely such a structure that was in the Soviet army. Reduced-strength units - professional officers and generals, equipment in boxes and reservists assigned to these units from ordinary residents. It is IMPOSSIBLE to imagine a more ideal and economical architecture! And these fools have destroyed it all and now they do not know what to do - they have neither money nor specialists nor even sense for a fully equipped army ... And in fact, according to the state of war, each platoon lump is "supposed" to have a medical instructor, and Ask what these "instructors" will do in peacetime and where to get so many of them and most importantly why? But as soon as part of the fighting begins without them, it will not do anywhere. This example is only a microscopic element in the entire military machine in peacetime and in wartime. And these guys "reformers" want to "complete" units in peacetime (!) According to the state of war ... it is impossible to think of more delirium and hallucinations. This will give rise to a huge number of REAL loafers in the military unit, who, against their will, do not know what to do, but they were instructed from above. The combat capability of such a profane unit will not only be not higher than the reduced one, but significantly lower due to the massive idleness of regular servicemen. The adopted reforms lead to the TOTAL degradation of the Russian army, and if they decide to stop them, then this is a good sign ... it may thus be possible to avoid war ...
    1. Artem6688
      Artem6688 16 November 2012 22: 30
      -3
      It is the Americans did not win a single war?)

      The advent of nuclear and hydrogen weapons teaches us that nobody wins a large-scale war)

      Now compare the losses of the Soviet army in wars and with the losses ov))
      The Soviet army crushed by number.
      American - quality.
      1. thatupac
        thatupac 16 November 2012 23: 08
        0
        Yeah, quality. Especially in Vietnam, because of that conscription of the US Army, the Pentagon had to curtail. And right now they’ll send somewhere to Iraq, and if they die, they will say that they themselves are to blame, that they signed the contract, because no one forced them. So they live.
        1. Artem6688
          Artem6688 17 November 2012 01: 18
          -4
          Only here the loss of the Americans in Iraq did not even come close to those with whom they are fighting.
          1. thatupac
            thatupac 17 November 2012 08: 18
            0
            There was no civil war. Even the loyal warriors of Saddam and those bribed.
    2. kush62
      kush62 18 November 2012 15: 51
      0
      quote: And these fools destroyed it all and now do not know what to do

      most likely enemies turn out, but not fools.
  19. Artem6688
    Artem6688 16 November 2012 22: 24
    -4
    Hurray Potsriots continue to dream about world wars)

    To fight an enemy like UWB we have nuclear weapons, so it will be quite enough for Russia to have a small, well-equipped army that you can effectively fight with militants and small states.

    I agree that he stole a lot of Serdyukov, ruined several military schools. In purchasing foreign equipment, I as a person, unlike the Potsriots, do not see anything bad because we can study the technology of their technology and use it on our samples. But the idea of ​​reform itself is not bad

    It has long been necessary to get rid of the "people's army" and switch to a contract. And then our army is not so much afraid of the Americans and the Chinese as those who will serve in it)
    1. thatupac
      thatupac 16 November 2012 23: 10
      -1
      If someone uses nuclear weapons, then he can immediately prepare for destruction. Nuclear weapons are a weapon of deterrence. If you use it, it will be suicide. Our country is huge, and we won’t be able to throw mobile groups of contractors around the country in no time. And if the mobile group is gouged, then what to do, who to call? Do you want a contract? So get those who want it, epta. Is there a problem? On the contrary, the Army wants to get rid of degenerative conscripts. Yes, few people want to go to a contract. And you have to suffer with gifts from the military enlistment offices. Afraid to serve? And they’re doing it right. If you are a sucker in life, then you’ll definitely go out for a whole year. 100%. By the way, visitors, Caucasians, gopot and powerful people are not only in the Army. Thanks to the residents of Moscow for the newly-minted Maskvabad. The next turn is for St. Petersburg. laughing So win!
      1. Artem6688
        Artem6688 17 November 2012 01: 19
        -1
        If they pay well, there will be no end to the contract.
        1. thatupac
          thatupac 17 November 2012 08: 18
          0
          Lies. It’s also a lie that if migrant workers leave the country, the Russians will almost all run to get a job as janitors.
          1. Artem6688
            Artem6688 18 November 2012 21: 54
            0
            Nobody will go to the place of guest workers because you cannot live on 5. Well, if for you and the 000 that the contractor receives is not enough, then this is purely your problem.
  20. wax
    wax 16 November 2012 23: 07
    0
    What Serdyukov was doing and what his head hurt was now completely clear. Serdyukov already got his place in the history of our armed forces somewhere along with Grachev (albeit with his own peculiarity). It is clear that this will not continue. And it is also clear that in any war our soldiers will fight with our weapons. Hence, we must dance in the defense industry.
  21. btsypulin
    btsypulin 16 November 2012 23: 41
    0
    Just an hour ago, from the old Moreman, from the times of the USSR, I heard something that I did not expect to hear at all times, namely: Serdyukov monitored the armor of Russian technology and expressed his opinion (during his reign) to reform and eliminate this oversight, at least by purchasing advanced equipment from the West ...... That he solved the problem of military personnel with housing! Personally, in my opinion: the prison should cry for him and for those who put him on this post !!!
  22. Setrac
    Setrac 17 November 2012 00: 58
    +1
    Dear Artem6688, are you a liar? Look at the statistics of the losses of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht, Look at the population of the USSR and the Third Reich, if the population of the Third Reich was slightly higher than the USSR, then in industry several times and if the USSR was stuffed with meat, the war ended in our defeat due to the destruction of all men.
    The United States has assembled the largest army in its history of 1 million people (about that) in Europe in WWII, and now look at how many were in the Red Army by the end of the war - more than 11 million people, the USSR has experience of such wars, the USA does not have it, they just they do not know how to fight with such armies. The Americans still have not learned how to use tanks for their intended purpose.
    1. stranik72
      stranik72 17 November 2012 12: 51
      0
      In terms of population on the eve of the war, the USSR surpassed Germany by more than 2 times. In 1945, the number of the Red Army included all railway workers (counted from 1941), all the troops of the NKVD, even in the Kolyma, etc. As for "our" experience of wars, do not flatter yourself, we are a country and a people who several times step on the same rake. So, for example, the battles in Grozny and Stalingrad, where he had that experience and when he was remembered. And why the formation of the Armed Forces destroyed the army aviation, where he had that experience in Avganistan, one can continue for a long time one conclusion, we do not even learn from our mistakes. Don't be fooled by the new army, the "builders" are over, there are only obvious and hidden grabbers left, and the result is that one old cannot build a new one. NOT TO WHOM.
    2. kush62
      kush62 18 November 2012 15: 56
      0
      Amers never defended their homeland, but only their pocket. So that they are not a sample for us.
  23. Zomanus
    Zomanus 17 November 2012 05: 26
    +1
    Well, the problem of the demographic pit can be closed by the introduction of initial military training courses for all white-flyers. At least at the level of disassembling / assembling AK and other trifles. And just yes, we need to build and develop the technical side of providing a fighter.
    1. thatupac
      thatupac 17 November 2012 08: 19
      0
      Go build and develop, if so smart. Initiative is punishable. Go ahead, come on!
  24. v53993
    v53993 17 November 2012 07: 01
    +1
    Got game, however.
  25. Eric
    Eric 17 November 2012 12: 53
    +1
    Do amers do not bet on blitzkrieg?
  26. APASUS
    APASUS 18 November 2012 10: 34
    +3
    Not to mention the fact that the "reformedness of the reform," says Lokot, is clearly "in question." After all, the most efficient units were often disbanded.

    And the most liquid was sold under his leadership! Constant scandals with boorish behavior, the destruction of social objects! You can consider Serdyukov-the enemy of the people!
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 18 November 2012 12: 08
      0
      Absolutely accurate definition! laughing
      But there was no reform, and without Filingauer it is clear.
      The feldmebel didn’t fix anything of what needed to be fixed, heaped up as an incompetent elephant in a china shop, theft has spread unprecedented ...
      A decent salary for an employee and housing is not a reform. This is the norm of a normal state that "does not want to feed someone else's army."
      Here would still worthy of service worthy of this salary where to get?
      If Serdyukov would have guessed where to get it (or someone sensible would have told him), then you can put a monument to him during his lifetime. Bust (not Vasilyeva, but personally) at home. smile
  27. Marconi41
    Marconi41 18 November 2012 17: 44
    0
    Imported military equipment this may not be bad, but what if you got into a fight with this importer. Where then to get spare parts, accessories, etc.? I think it’s best to rely on my good. But to demand from this good and the right quality!
  28. Setrac
    Setrac 18 November 2012 22: 31
    0
    Dear stranik72, you are right. The USSR surpassed Germany twice in population, but the USSR fought against the Third Reich, but the Third Reich outnumbered the USSR in numbers, although not by much.
    I’ll answer your objections right away - in the USSR, too, not all were purebred Rusaks, there were others who were less stable in battle, people who were unwilling to fight or work in military factories, etc. etc.