Military Review

To execute it is impossible to pardon: Tulle and Oradour-sur-Glain

Tulle, 9 June and Oradour-sur-Glain (Oradour-sur-Glane) 10 June 1944, France. Who has never heard of the French village of Oradur? This is one of the most famous examples of Nazi crimes! But most of the Russian readers, most likely, have never heard about the Tulle settlement. And those who studied history in the former USSR, they certainly did not hear about Tulle at that time ...

Tulle, 9 June and Oradour-sur-Glain (Oradour-sur-Glane) 10 June 1944, France. Who has never heard of the French village of Oradur? This is one of the most famous examples of Nazi crimes! But most of the Russian readers, most likely, have never heard about the Tulle settlement. And those who studied history in the former USSR certainly didn’t hear about Tulle. Everything has its own reasons and I will tell about them later. Now let's get in order.

If we consider these two episodes independently of each other, this will not give a complete picture of what happened. Tulle and Oradour-sur-Glaine are located 110-kilometers from each other. They were both in the area of ​​the X-NUMX SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment "Der Führer", commanded by Colonel SS Sylvester Stadler. The regiment was part of the 4 PG of the SS division "Das Reich" under the command of SS Major General Heinz Lammerding. After the landing of the Allies in Normandy, the so-called "maquis", French partisans, who can be called the juicy word "gangs", became more active in this region of France. You will soon see why. In Wikipedia, I read a short article describing their field life: they ate fruit, wild berries, very rarely hunted. Have a healthy lifestyle, in general. Well, sheer emotion! Among them were not only the French. There were many citizens of the USSR, Poland, Spanish Republicans, representatives of other European countries. In the ranks of the "maki" fought and "Lieutenant Basile" - the national hero of France and the Hero of the Soviet Union, Lieutenant of the Red Army Vasily Porik.

Since the landing of the Allies in Normandy, the number of "maki" has increased dramatically, the benefit of the British transferred a lot weapons and explosives. The Der Führer regiment was tasked to advance towards Limoges in separate groups in order to suppress guerrilla activity in the whole Dordogne province. In 1985, the last commander of the 4 regiment "DF", SS lieutenant colonel Otto Weidinger published the 62-page booklet, where he described the events in Tulle. Here are quotes links from her. Of course, Weidinger's book was immediately banned in France.

In the village of Tulle (population over 15 thousand people) "poppies" surrounded 3 battalions of the 95th guard regiment. Major General Lammerding sends the 2nd Intelligence tank detachment under the command of Major SS Heinrich Wolfe. At 21:00 p.m. on June 8, they arrive at the village and, after a short battle, lift the siege, losing nine people dead.

And in the morning of the next day, a terrible picture unfolds: about forty disfigured corpses of German soldiers are found near the local school. Some of them had their genitals cut off and put into their mouths. The corpses of the other dead were littered with excrement. One of the victims was tied by the legs to the car and carried face down. Well, everything else, in an equally elegant French style. Locals claim that among the partisans were Poles, Spanish Republicans and even Russians. The deputy chief of the intelligence division of the SS captain Aurel Kovacs (what an interesting name in the SS!) And an officer of the BD named Walter arrived in Tulle with a detachment of Major Wolf. Captain Kovacs collects all the men in Tulle, aged from 16 to 60 years, a total of more than 3 thousand people in the yard of a local ammunition factory. With the help of the mayor of the city, the factory manager and local residents, Kovach was able to detain 120-130 completely foreign men. They did not live in the city, did not work, they did not have relatives there, they didn’t have any documents with them and could not explain why they were in Tulle. Tulle, by European standards, is not a village, but a small town. Clean, the streets are covered with asphalt. And the detainees, on the shoes were traces of dried clay. They came to Tulle not along the road, but through forests and fields. Aurel Kovac does not doubt that these aliens are partisans. From this group, he selects those who seemed to him younger than 20 years (they don’t have any documents) and lets him go. The remaining 99 (according to other 98 data) the person orders to hang (here it should be mentioned that on the memorial tombstone in Tulle the names are only 19 people). At the same time, Kovach has a written order from the divisional judge of the SS troops, Lieutenant Colonel Detlef Okrent, with reference to the Wehrmacht order "On the fight against gangs." All according to the law.

Detlef Okrent is a silver field hockey medalist at 1936. By the way, his surname is Polish, the word "okrent" (okręt) means "ship". This is the reason why this story was silent in the USSR. Yes, it is, in fact, nowhere popular. Describing the atrocities of the French partisans is ... umm ... not politically correct. And in the former USSR, it would not be politically correct to mention the SS Hauptsturmführer with a Romanian name and a Hungarian surname. On the same morning, the motorized detachment of the 3 th battalion of the regiment “DF” received an order to liberate the village of Gueret from the partisans. The SS attack the village, but it is already captured by the Wehrmacht. Not understanding the situation, and the SS and the Wehrmacht opened fire on each other, there are wounded on both sides. All the wounded are loaded onto two armored personnel carriers and taken to Limoges. On the way, they are overtaken by the SS battalion commander, Major SS Helmut Kampfe. A few minutes later his car is found on the road. The motor still works, but Kampfe has disappeared. His documents are found on the street in Limoges the next morning.

In the ranks of the "poppies" there were enough agents of the SD, they reported that an SS officer would be "ceremonially" executed in the village of Oradour-sur-Glain. Assuming that this is Helmut Kampf, the regimental commander Sylvester Stadler decides to release him at any cost. He orders the commander of the 1 Battalion, Major SS Adolph Otto Dieckmann, to take Oradur-sur-Glain and find Kampfe. At the same time, Diekmann was supposed to secure the release of Kampf “without excesses,” in an extreme case, he was allowed to take hostages from the village’s population for the subsequent exchange of prisoners. This is all that was in his competence. He had no right to take any further action.

For this operation, Dieckmann took over the 3 th rifle company under the command of SS Captain Otto Kahn. A company of Otto Dickmann's tank battalion, this is not even a motorized, but just a rifle company. Moving on trucks, armed with small arms, they also have no explosives with them.
On the way to Oradour, they find a German ambulance car, in which there were an orderly, a driver and four wounded. All burned alive, and the driver and a nurse chained to the steering wheel.

Dickmann's detachment is occupied by Oradur, the "maki" remaining there and some of the locals retreat. All captured men - and this is about 180 people - are detained and driven into the stable. Women and children (around 450 people) are locked in the local church. A search begins in homes where a large number of weapons and ammunition are found. The houses where weapons are found are set on fire. In 1969, a veteran of the Das Reich SS division Otto Weidinger met in Paris with the former commander of the Maki squads in the Dordogne province Rene Jugie. Juzhi confirmed that in Oradour they really hid weapons for all partisans in the region. Subsequent events have two "official" versions: German and French.

Let's start with the German. The bell tower of the church suddenly explodes, and the copper bell breaks through the roof. Otto Dickmann took this blast for a new partisan attack and ordered the men assembled in the stable to be shot and ready for battle. But the attack never followed, but the fire started in the church. The SS open the doors and try to save all those who survived the explosion. It was possible to save several women and children, which was later confirmed by the rescuers themselves. The fire was so strong that the copper bell melted. The walls of the church are still preserved. It sounds plausible, although there is one question: the men who were shot in the stable - who is this? Captured "poppies" or locals? Or those and others? Or is it the same thing?

French version. Dickmann gives the mayor of the village 30 minutes to return the captured Kampfe. After the ultimatum has not been fulfilled, the men are shot, and the church is set on fire. This version has questions. I did not accidentally mention that the 3-I company arrived in the village without explosives. Their task was to free the captured officer, and not to destroy the village. If they really set fire to the church together with the local population, why was it necessary to climb into the fire and save the same population? And, most importantly, why the bell tower collapsed, scattered into pieces and the copper bell melted if there was no explosion. Perhaps because the explosives were in the church itself and the detonator worked.

Photos taken inside the church do not confirm that there was a fire. There was a powerful explosion in the belfry, followed by breaking through the roof. The church bell did not melt, but shattered into pieces:
To execute it is impossible to pardon: Tulle and Oradour-sur-Glain

The wooden confessional on the left side of the church did not suffer at all, in spite of the described "arson" of the church by the SS:

On the same side there is a niche with an altar, which did not suffer at all and to this day looks like it was in its original form.

On the right side there are two niches with altars: the nearest one is destroyed, and the second has remained unchanged:

It is alleged that it was in the church that the completely burnt corpse of the mayor of Oradour-sur-Glance Paul Desourteaux was found.

Creepy photo. Mayor Desurto burned almost to non-recognition. Please note that not a rag of clothes is already on it, it has all burned down. He was the only victim whose remains were found burned. Here is another photo of the dead in the church, no less terrible. But here it is striking that most of the bodies are simply torn, their separate parts are clearly visible. Well, and most importantly, most of them show unburned clothing. These are victims of an explosion, not a fire. And if the church was blown up, then it was blown up by French partisans, not the SS.

The official story is based on the fact that the Germans “set on fire” the church, and did not blow it up. Adolph Otto Dieckmann committed a military offense regardless of whose version is correct: he drove the population of Oradour to the church, without having checked in advance if there was any explosives in the church itself. He did not fulfill the order and the civilian population perished through his fault. Colonel SS Stadler orders to collect documents and evidence to give Diekmann to the SS tribunal. Dickmann is not arrested, but he understands that he is waiting for the tribunal and the infamous shooting. He begins to seek death in battle and finds her 29 Jun in Normandy. According to eyewitnesses, Diekmann simply substituted himself under the fire of the enemy. His case is closed in the tribunal. Still, Major Kampf’s charred body is found in the Oradour area. The investigation of those events does not stop to this day both from the French and from the German side.

After the war, Heinz Lammerding was sentenced to death by the French in absentia, as was Aurel Kovac. The government of Germany refused to issue Lammerding to France. Aurel Kovach disappeared without a trace. Otto Weidinger was acquitted in a war crimes trial, and Sylvester Stadler and Detlef Okrent were not brought to trial at all. After the end of the war, a French court issued only 52 death certificates for those killed in Oradour. And 590 people were reported missing. They did not restore the settlement, but built a brand new brand with the same name. It so happened that the “missing” people from the dilapidated village moved to a new one, but, nevertheless, they were found to be either dead or missing. This means that the shooting of the male population in Oradour does not hold water. After all, it is alleged that the Germans shot adult men alone around 180. And why no one identified them and did not bury them? In Oradour there are no mass graves at all. All 52 dead are buried in individual graves in the city cemetery.

And one more strange fact. For some reason, those who died in Oradour did not have any heirs to their homes, land, and so on. But the village was not destroyed, everything could be repaired. In addition to the church, the rest of the houses were also brick built and were not destroyed to the ground. Oradur is not a Soviet collective farm, its houses and plots have owners. In the capitalist country there are always heirs to the property, but in Oradour was not found. And they made it, so to speak, a conservation area.

The answer is very simple. The government of the Fourth Republic and then-French President Vincent Auriol (Vincent Auriol) decided to make a monument to the victims of German crimes out of Oradour and simply paid off from the local people by building another village next door.

In Oradour-sur-Glaine, captured partisans and several local men could be shot, but not by numbers in 180 people. Total death toll: 52 person. This includes, those who died from the explosion in the church, as well as the shot guerrillas.

The events in Tulle and Oradour-sur-Glain were a dark spot in the history, not only of the SS troops, but also of the French resistance.

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  1. andrei332809
    andrei332809 10 November 2012 12: 31
    our grandfathers saved the zapadentsev from a brown infection, and these liberals teach us what is good and what is bad. sickened by their tolerance
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim 10 November 2012 12: 35
      Tolerance yes, respect yes, tolerance - no, I can’t! Yes, and I do not want to!
    2. YARY
      YARY 10 November 2012 12: 56
      I wonder where in France came from different countries?
      No one thought that it was those who escaped from concentration camps?
      I forgive them everything !!!!
      A good German is a dead German !!!
      1. sapulid
        sapulid 10 November 2012 15: 20
        Damn, watch the broom. My grandfather, a German, marched from Brest to Berlin, fighting for the Soviet Motherland. He was shot after the Victory on the denunciation of the political instructor because of hiding his nationality ... Apparently, similar tribunals were sitting in the tribunal .......
      2. Lech e-mine
        Lech e-mine 10 November 2012 15: 39
        AFTER THIS, I AGREE good Fritz is DEAD FRITZ.
        1. Karracho
          Karracho April 10 2015 16: 07
          don't believe this photoshop. here is the original

      3. viktor_ui
        viktor_ui 10 November 2012 17: 21
        YARY - do not bend the stick about ALL Germans.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 10 November 2012 20: 18
          Quote: viktor_ui
          YARY - do not bend the stick about ALL Germans.

          Ardent right In the war it was

          Manager Reinhardt writes to Lieutenant Otto von Schirach:

          “The French were taken from us to the factory. I chose six Russians from the Minsk region. They are much more resilient than the French. Only one of them died, the rest continue to work in the field and on the farm. Their maintenance costs nothing, and we should not suffer from that these animals, whose children, perhaps, kill our soldiers, are eating German bread. Yesterday I subjected to light executions two Russian beasts who secretly devoured skim milk intended for pig queens ... "

          Mataes Zimlich writes to his brother Corporal Heinrich Zimlich:

          "There is a camp for Russians in Leiden, where you can see them. They are not afraid of weapons, but we talk with them with a good whip ..."

          Someone Otto Essman writes to Lieutenant Helmut Weygand:

          "We have Russian prisoners here. These types are devouring earthworms on the airfield, they rush to the garbage can. I saw them eating weeds. And think that these are people! .."
          1. viktor_ui
            viktor_ui 11 November 2012 04: 37
            Vadivak - there were always enough freaks on both sides, and applications like a good German (Russian, Jew, Amer, French, etc.) - a dead German (Russian, Jew, Amer, French, etc.) give additional opportunities that ghoul abomination from the authorities, which brews such historical "porridge". You do not have the right to make such statements and judge specific people by their specific deeds, and if you can, then insert in full bad uncles at the level of your city (or neighborhood)
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 11 November 2012 21: 45
              Quote: viktor_ui
              Vadivak - freaks have always been enough and enough on both sides, and bells like a good German (Russian, Jew, Amer, French, etc.) are dead German

              Victor, so it’s war, it’s an unnatural thing in itself, and if the Germans carried out the orders of their ideologists, considering us subhuman, this means a price to them
        2. A. Yaga
          A. Yaga 11 November 2012 00: 33
          He did not follow the order and the civilian population died through his fault. SS Colonel Stadler orders the collection of documents and evidence to give Dieckmann to the SS tribunal. Dieckmann is not being arrested, but he understands that a tribunal and shameful execution awaits him.

          Did the Germans worry about the civilian population? fool
          I’m wondering. If the tribunal and the infamous execution were waiting for everyone whose fault the civilian population died, then how many Germans would be shot for about 20 million (official version) of Soviet civilians. It seems that Soviet citizens do not fall into the category of people at all. angry
          1. carbofo
            carbofo 11 November 2012 02: 15
            Quote: A. Yaga
            It seems that Soviet citizens do not fall into the category of people at all. angry

            The military orders of the Reich speak directly about this.
            But the Germans did not cut out Europe so tightly, because the neighbors, well, for many other reasons.
  2. ivan_stepanch
    ivan_stepanch 10 November 2012 12: 47
    a serious charge must be supported by documents and an investigation. your, uv.avtor, the source from the category of the agency OBS. article minus.
  3. davoks
    davoks 10 November 2012 12: 54
    the author wants to convey to us how good the Nazis from the SS were who captured France. And what villains were the French partisans who fought for their country

    here is wikipedia. completely opposite to this article

    By the summer of 1944, the French partisans (Maki) expanded their operations in France in order to help the Allies in the landing of their troops in Normandy, diverting part of the German army. In early June, the headquarters of the SS division “Reich” received a message that Helmut Kempfe, captured by the partisans, was being held in the village of Oradour-sur-Glan.

    On the morning of June 10, the 1st battalion of the Der Führer regiment under the command of the Hauptsturmführer Kahn surrounded the village, residents were ordered to gather in the center of the village, after which the SS men took away all the men and drove the women and children to church.

    The men were taken to the sheds, where they began to be shot from machine guns, trying to beat in the legs. After that they were doused with a combustible mixture and set on fire. Only five men managed to escape, 197 people were killed. After that, a powerful incendiary device was installed in the church, after it worked, the SS men started shooting at women and children trying to escape from the fire. Only one woman managed to survive; 240 women and 205 children were killed. Another group of 20 people managed to escape in the morning, when the SS men had not yet managed to surround the village.

    The village was completely destroyed. As it turned out later, the day before the arrival of the German battalion, Helmut Kempf was really captured, and at night the partisans executed him and burned the corpse.
    1. Kaa
      Kaa 10 November 2012 16: 05
      Quote: davoks
      the author wants to convey to us how good the Nazis from the SS were who captured France.

      The author loves a splendid picture of the welfare of the French under the strict guidance of Hitler. In fact, if the "Resistance" itself had not undertaken, well, at least such actions ... then the Naglich people and the Americans would have no reason not to occupy France, as an accomplice of Germany in 1940 -1944, they were very active in the military industry, and in North Africa and on the Eastern Front were marked ... on the wrong side. And the civilians have suffered!
  4. crazy_fencer
    crazy_fencer 10 November 2012 12: 59
    It seems that the article was written by a hysterical journalist with a good start in feminism. And the fact that guerrilla warfare is a priori cruel is something the author does not seem to realize. Ah-ah, they acted incorrectly with the SS-sheep ... And how easy we put up labels ... "Band formations", you know. Well, in that case, the whole French Resistance is like, illegal opposition to the legally elected German occupation authorities? In such delirium, one can even go so far as to start putting an equal sign between De Gaulle and some Udaltsov.
  5. Zomanus
    Zomanus 10 November 2012 13: 12
    Europe, such a Europe ...
  6. geo185
    geo185 10 November 2012 13: 30
    Quote: Ardent
    A good German is a dead German !!!

    a good fascist - a dead fascist so probably it will be more correct
    1. Lech e-mine
      Lech e-mine 10 November 2012 15: 42
      what humane fascists
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 11 November 2012 02: 17
        Leha e-mine,
        And what is your picture about ?? Germans collect corpses in a truck, and that may well be that this is the work of American attack aircraft.
        1. Lech e-mine
          Lech e-mine 11 November 2012 04: 51
          Good question.
          After the attack, the bodies of people look like MEAT STUFF.
          Also, after crashing by the STORMMAN, numerous funnels remain.
          In this photo, as far as I remember, the SHOT COMMAND - FRITZIS AFTER SHOOT REMOVE CLOTHES FROM WOMEN (marauding shorter)
          1. carbofo
            carbofo 11 November 2012 15: 36
            Leha e-mine,
            There is nothing in the picture that clearly indicates shooting or another process of killing, even if you see traces of bullets this will not give any reason to consider the Germans in the picture to be murderers, to apply your favorite cop theme - whoever found the culprit is the culprit, obviously does not make sense.
            If there was a firing row of soldiers in the picture and rifles were smoking, that would be obvious, here you can only guess who and why.
            For your information, they wouldn’t use bombs on residents because there are more profitable targets, but machine guns on an attack aircraft are always enough, and sometimes pilots indulged in having fun shooting at unarmed
            1. Lech e-mine
              Lech e-mine 11 November 2012 16: 35
              do not say nonsense - these are Jewish women (IF MEMORY DOES NOT CHANGE THIS Poland) and I read the story of this photo.
              Rummage on the internet for a more detailed description.
              For your information, a bullet from a heavy machine gun can tear a person to pieces - as we see the bodies are clean, it means they shot heads from pistols.
              And who do they have in the picture?
              1. carbofo
                carbofo 12 November 2012 11: 03
                Leha e-mine,
                You can't believe anything on the Internet, especially an ambiguous photo with corpses, this is not a video where a Russian woman asks "Aslanchik do not kill me", knowing full well that everything has already been decided.
                You better write on our TV, where in the advertisement it seems like a new parody film about Shtirlits, it was said HiGitleryushechki, like I understand the new trend, everything is fine, everything is in order. I understand everything, a movie of parody is creative, but this phrase hit me.
                Let us leave the conclusions on the corpses of forensic experts, this is their work.
                The main thing is not to forget why they fought, against whom and why!
                There was one series of American documentaries about the Second World War, there was also a series about the USSR, in my opinion even the Americans were able to show that our struggle was for survival. So there is one episode called "For what the Russians are fighting" (something like this) and so after the mountains of corpses an episode from one war film was shown as the Russians - sailors, workers, collective farmers swear an oath to beat the enemy to the last drop of blood.
                Find and see. recommend.
                1. Lech e-mine
                  Lech e-mine 12 November 2012 13: 50
                  YES ON THE INTERNET, you can’t believe anything. However, I believe the testimonies of our veterans, our former prisoners of the concentration camp, and our archives of the war years - there you can hear and see many facts of the atrocious massacre of people by the Nazis.
                  So your arguments are unconvincing.
  7. anchonsha
    anchonsha 10 November 2012 13: 40
    Well, at least in this story they did not blame the Slavs for what happened, and even more on the USSR. After all, it follows from the article that among the partisans were Poles, Russians, as the local residents told about. And the terrible death of people remained a dark spot because the Old World did not want to show the atrocities of both fascists and representatives of the "poppies". It is better to blame the Russians for the atrocities, which is what is happening. The same Katyn, and our libegals (deliberately made a mistake) immediately sing along with the West in unison, but never criticize the actions of the same West.
  8. AAA
    AAA 10 November 2012 13: 52
    "The SS men are opening doors and trying to save everyone who survived the explosion."
    This is something reminiscent of a fairy tale about the good SS men. For the first time in my life I read this. Usually they acted on the contrary, leaving behind them mountains of corpses. Fascist scum.
    1. Lech e-mine
      Lech e-mine 10 November 2012 16: 16
      the same story was with the Greeks. The Germans also shot all the hostages of the men in revenge for the unsolved murder of the German officer. (The Fritz themselves removed their crime on the camera)
    2. Ascetic
      Ascetic 10 November 2012 23: 10
      Quote: AAA
      This is something reminiscent of a fairy tale about the good SS men. For the first time in my life I read this. Usually they acted on the contrary, leaving behind them mountains of corpses. Fascist scum.

      Tale of the good SS man
      Once the SS man was walking through the forest. He was in a black ladies uniform, leather boots and a brilliant automatic. He reached the turn of the path - and sees - a squirrel is sitting on a stump and crying. The SS man approached her and asked her:
      - squirrel, why are you crying?
      “The partisans burned my nest and ate my little squirrel,” said the squirrel.
      The SS frowned, darkened. And he said to the squirrel:
      - Do not cry, squirrel, I will find them and punish them.
      - Truth? - asked the squirrel
      “Honestly,” the SS man answered. After all, he was a good man and always kept his word
      Squirrel, here, you eat my bread and it will tell you easier - the SS man said - and gave her his last bread, because he always helped the little ones.
      The squirrel took the bread, bit off a piece and began to cry further. The SS man's heart sank and he moved on
      He walked, walked, and went out into the forest glade. There stood a partisan with a rifle. The SS man approached him and asked: Do you know who offended the little squirrel?
      But the soldier was very angry and wanted to shoot the brave SS man, but he was very strong and strangled the soldier
      The SS man went on. He walked, and he saw a boy who was sitting on a tree. The SS man asked him: boy, what are you doing there?
      But the boy was very angry and told him that he was looking for bird nests to feed his friends.
      The SS man frowned, and told the boy that he would immediately stop ravaging the nests of the poor birds, but the boy was very impudent and told the SS man that he would go to the next-best.
      The SS man got angry and killed the boy. He killed and ate his liver because he was very hungry. The angry boy added strength to the SS man and he went on even faster.
      He walked, and he saw a dugout. Many different serious people went there. The SS man realized that these were partisans (after all, he was also very smart). The SS man was not at all afraid of them, because he was very brave. He went to the partisans and asked that he be taken to the main partisan. He was immediately brought to the dampest and deepest dugout, where the most important partisan was sitting. He sat at a large oak table and had a large beard.
      - why did you come to me? - asked the main partisan
      - I met a squirrel - someone burned her house and ate her little squirrel - said the SS man, do you know who did this?
      “We did it,” said the main partisan. Because we live here and protect the world and all good people.
      The SS man did not believe him and said to him:
      - there are no such good deeds for which you can eat squirrels.
      - Outlined the main partisan. He ordered the SS man to be beaten with sticks and thrown him away.
      The SS man was very angry. He got up, brushed himself off and pulled out a walkie-talkie. He talked with the Wehrmacht command and said everything he saw.
      Soon, many, many planes arrived and they bombed all-all-all partisans. So good conquered evil. Fairy tale lies yes in her hint, Gute Zoldaten lesson!
  9. elfxnumx
    elfxnumx 10 November 2012 14: 31
    Article shame on a resource
  10. tan0472
    tan0472 10 November 2012 15: 01
    The author writes that the Germans did not have explosives - armed with small arms, they also do not have explosives with them (they say they could not blow up the church). At the same time, they found many partisan weapons in the villages. It is possible that the Germans found explosives. And if so, then the author in vain tries to dissuade the Germans from the explosion of the church.
  11. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 10 November 2012 15: 02
    Surely in the occupied territories there were atrocities on the part of the local population and partisans. But it’s not they who came to Germany with weapons, they defended their land, their cities, their families and I personally cruelty to the invaders - it is understandable.
    1. Lech e-mine
      Lech e-mine 10 November 2012 15: 49
      I personally like the SS in this form more
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 10 November 2012 16: 14
        This is the Hitler Youth, they covered the evacuation of the "elite".

        They left seasoned.
      2. Volkhov
        Volkhov 10 November 2012 16: 18
        This is the Hitler Youth, they covered the evacuation of the "elite".

        They left seasoned.
  12. Averias
    Averias 10 November 2012 15: 08
    This is "opus" so "opus". Or rather "lapus". Comrade the author, urgently stop taking LSD, you know it will not lead to good, it is harmful for the psyche. Well, at least the "little green men" were not included in the "poppies" detachments. Here she is, a victim of modern "history" and the REN-TV channel. It’s time to laugh, but the topic is very serious. Another example of what rotten ambitions and low self-esteem lead to, to light up at any cost. Ugh, in a word.
    1. Averias
      Averias 11 November 2012 13: 37
      Heh heh, again some kind of "true patriot" slapped minus. I appeal to all the backing tracks :)), since you put a minus, be they kind enough to argue and preferably clearly and in fact.
  13. sapulid
    sapulid 10 November 2012 15: 30
    Damn, in war there is no place for humanism. On the one hand, the former prisoners of war who passed the concentration camps, on the other hand, the fascists were brutalized from constant attacks from the rear. Both of them wanted to intimidate each other. Any methods were used .... However, NOTHING CAN JUSTIFY CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!
    There was a court and he passed his sentence.
    To the author, a fat minus for trying to whitewash the criminals.
  14. Volkhov
    Volkhov 10 November 2012 16: 01
    In the modern world there are 2 systems - Zionism and Nazism, Soviet propaganda was created by Zionism, the brain is used to it, but this is propaganda in which there are no uncomfortable moments and profitable myths are created.
    The propagandists "did not notice" the evacuation of the SS and presented the occupation of the territory of Germany as a "victory", although they knew perfectly well that this was just a maneuver, not even pulling a truce. Time passed, and the Reich gained strength, respectively, the Nazis conduct their propaganda from a different point of view. The author is closer to the Nazi system and chose the convenient side of the truth - this is normal in a propaganda war. Now the exacerbation of the confrontation, Zionism is attacking the Nazis, they are blocking these attempts, it is presented as a "fight against terrorism", but in reality the war is going on in all spheres - on the ground, in the air, under water, in space and, of course, in heads.
    Until now, both sides adhered to the myth of the "defeat of Germany", but in the event of an open confrontation, the Germans must somehow introduce themselves to the world - not as Martians, so propaganda is intensifying.
    The article is not about who killed whom more 68 years ago, but that the story did not end, and for the Russians neither Zionists nor Nazis are friends, we both interfere or are needed as a temporary resource.
    We need to form our own idea of ​​the world, our interests, their protection, technical parity with Nazism, freedom from Zionism, now we are simply used for our own affairs, and the Nazis, at best, to the machine ...
    1. Lech e-mine
      Lech e-mine 10 November 2012 16: 07
      Crimes of Fascists are too large and terrifying for our country is the bitterness of the loss of their loved ones ALMOST EVERY FAMILY.
      Therefore, any attempts to justify in any way the actions of the Fascists
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 10 November 2012 16: 30
        The Russians suffered from the crimes of both systems (in Kommunarka and Butovo, not to mention the ditches more voluminous in Siberia), but we ourselves have not been a player for a long time - we don’t even understand what is happening. Now they plan to use us in the end, and then evacuate, leaving us like a mongrel in an abandoned country house. At the same time, dogs go astray, and we still have to unload the brain from propaganda - a time factor.
        1. Generalissimus
          Generalissimus 11 November 2012 01: 44
          The premise of your comment is an example of propaganda. Novodvorskaya broadcasts the same thing.
          Give specific numbers, facts - then you can discuss. And they like to scream about the millions wiped off by the councils in the dust of the camp, millions of executed people and so on. And as far as the evidence comes, so do stupid faces and talk about the tears of a child.

          The Russian people will never forgive the Germans. 27 millions of our fallen compatriots will never be forgotten.
          It was necessary to obliterate this country - Germany. And what systems were then - the tenth matter.
          1. Volkhov
            Volkhov 11 November 2012 22: 04
            Quote: Generalissimus
            It was necessary to obliterate this country - Germany. And what systems were then - the tenth matter.

            You are the legion - Hamburg, Dresden, camps for post-war prisoners of war in the western zone (a fenced field without buildings) - this idea was realized as much as possible.
  15. homosum20
    homosum20 10 November 2012 17: 10
    Violence breeds violence. A cynic, a madman and a bastard can talk about measure and justice in a war. Any partisans can be brought under the definition of bandits. Of decisive importance is on whose territory they are fighting, whether their country is at war with the enemy. According to these definitions, poppies are partisans. German troops are occupiers.
    The truth is one - there are many excuses.
    1. Tatarus
      Tatarus 10 November 2012 19: 29
      Not a cynic and a bastard, but dunce and ignoramus. Which at the first shot will be asked by no one and where he shot from and where to bath his pants. There are no saints in the war. All the killers. It's just that some defend their homeland as they can, while others break this homeland. Some heroes are other enemies. The same German boys that defended Berlin did not fight for the Reich but for their mother. Do not confuse. Hitler was a star to them, adults tricked and threw into battle. What are they, what are our cadets and pioneers near Moscow. Who does not understand, mother will never protect.
  16. Hairy Siberian
    Hairy Siberian 10 November 2012 18: 06
    The author apparently does not like the French so much that he makes soldiers out of fascist punishers, innocent, slanderous, partisans.
  17. sesame
    sesame 10 November 2012 19: 20
    Innocent fascists drove residents to church to protect, and their own compatriots took and began to blow them up. Complete nonsense! What for?
  18. kush62
    kush62 10 November 2012 19: 21
    It’s not at all clear why this story is here?
  19. Tatarus
    Tatarus 10 November 2012 19: 35
    There is a systematic substitution of values ​​and concepts. They want us to stop believing in good. Good are not all the same. No black and white all gray. Do you know what the devil’s main trick is? To convince everyone that it does not exist. Thanks to everyone for the reaction. Do not sleep people. For asleep awake NON-PEOPLE.
  20. Konstantm
    Konstantm 10 November 2012 20: 00
    Read Ales Adamovich.
  21. Megatron
    Megatron 10 November 2012 20: 01
    I will say from the side, without addiction to the Germans and French.

    There are no rules in a war, and it cannot be. The ideal war is as follows: the enemy enters the territory of the enemy and destroys everything moving there, all people, from small to large. Some part may be used as slaves at first, but then when the enemy lands are occupied by new inhabitants, it is also destroyed. The Germans in this regard succeeded more than others.

    Honestly, I don’t understand why we didn’t do this, for each of our killed soldiers there are 10 German women, slaves to the Germans, to force us to bear children instead of those killed and tortured. I have no hatred of Germany, the Germans, it would just be an adequate answer. And then the corpses of our soldiers overwhelmed half of Europe, but what's the point? Right now, all the same, they are no longer liberators, almost aggressors. I, on the contrary, believe that on a global scale, the USSR needed to unite with Germany against England and the United States.
    But Germany attacked us and lost, and we have to pay the bills, all these ridiculous repatriations do not count.
  22. PSih2097
    PSih2097 10 November 2012 20: 02
    Khatyn (a village in Belarus, destroyed on March 22, 1943 by the punitive units of the auxiliary security police from the Ukrainian collaborationist formation (Bendera), the 118th schutzshaftsafal battalion for the murder of several German soldiers by partisans. In accordance with the principle of general collective punishment for the possible provision of assistance to the partisans by the villagers all 149 residents of Khatyn were burnt alive or shot), I think many were here:

    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 10 November 2012 21: 19
      - Why is the visit paid (see 1 photo) and you can’t take pictures for free?
      - what will happen if everywhere (Kronstadt, Don, Solovki, the entire Gulag, Chechnya) the monuments of genocide are erected in proportion to the number of victims?

      It is precisely because of the scale of the losses that complete "books of memory" were not published, although there were always lists in the archives - so that everyone saw only his own piece of grief. Such an order - one must hate other people's punishers, and love one's own.
  23. Yasen Ping
    Yasen Ping 10 November 2012 20: 10
    The article that the Germans acted within the law, you did not read it ?? There was even a judge there .. And the trick is that the Germans in the West behaved more culturally than ours, burning our villages in the city, destroying our people, you know what they have in their language, in French, English, German Italian, Slav means slave? and if ours were there, I won’t be surprised that ours could have committed atrocities against the Nazis .. And it doesn’t matter what Fritz you are .. you destroyed our people ..
  24. wasjasibirjac
    wasjasibirjac 10 November 2012 20: 50
    and I would not be surprised if many of the SS's actions were more or less similar to those described. Fighting on the eastern front, the Nazis showed unlimited cruelty to Soviet citizens, because in their opinion, our people were savages. and there - civilized French, kind of like their own, Europeans, in relation to whom certain rules and norms apply.
    we still have a relation to us as savages in the west, so we don’t have to hope for a civilized attitude towards Russians even now
    1. AAA
      AAA 11 November 2012 02: 22
      I agree with you that in the countries of Western Europe the Germans behaved more humanely towards the civilian population, the Wehrmacht even had instructions on this matter. But the animals are still animals. The atrocities of the Nazis have been documented in Europe. I recommend that you watch the films "The Old Gun" -1975 and "Transition" -1979, shot by Europeans and based on real events. Of course, this is not documentary, but I think that the brutal insides of the Nazis in relation to the French are well revealed there.
      1. Lech e-mine
        Lech e-mine 11 November 2012 04: 59
        and this is in FRANCE -Fritz shoot local underground so there is no humanity here either
        1. carbofo
          carbofo 11 November 2012 15: 38
          There are no questions about this picture.
  25. Egoza
    Egoza 10 November 2012 21: 50
    And how is it known that it was the "poppies" who outraged the bodies of the Germans? They could have been killed, but abuse is still a question. There are known cases when the local population thus took revenge on the ALREADY DEAD Nazis for their mockery of the population. Perhaps that is why France and the USSR did not advertise the events described by the author. But the desire to denigrate the partisans is obvious. The article is a minus.
  26. Armata
    Armata 10 November 2012 21: 58
    What kind of article? Administration, what are we promoting fascism on the site?
  27. georg737577
    georg737577 11 November 2012 00: 31
    Gentlemen, understand; in war, the main thing is EFFICIENCY of actions, and giving these actions a moral assessment is not part of the tasks of the belligerents. Atrocities occur in any war at all times. This is a property of war. I am sure that while you read these lines, somewhere in the war civilians are killed, the wounded are killed, women are raped and children are burned. Now. I understand - this is terrible, but it is true. There is no morality in the war, even if a person gets there with some illusions on this score, soon they will only have anger and a desire to take revenge ...
  28. dima1970
    dima1970 11 November 2012 00: 35
    The author’s name is some Aryan, Hasan Huseyn-Zade, blue-eyed blyandin, probably ...
  29. taseka
    taseka 11 November 2012 07: 25
    They killed us, we killed them - the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection !!!
    Death to fascism!
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 11 November 2012 07: 33
      Quote: taseka
      Death to fascism!

      and always will be !.
      but in general I'm waiting for the "results of the week." authors, where is your work? it's already half past nine, but there are still no "results"
  30. Leisure
    Leisure 11 November 2012 12: 29
    SS, Salvation Army?
    Ungrateful French, ss humanists, they simply helped.
  31. Skorobogatov_P
    Skorobogatov_P 11 November 2012 18: 04
    The authorities do a lot with such a scoundrel. So, for example, Elzenoids immortalized the memory of three "heroes" who got drunk who tried to stop an infantry fighting vehicle rushing from Moscow in 1991. Moreover, they not only wanted to stop her - they wanted to burn the soldiers of their own army who were sitting inside. There was a mechanic driver sitting there, a simple soldier kid. And he had only one concern - to get away from Moscow as soon as possible. But the shitcrats have already begun to celebrate their victory. And there were no victims! And then the trinity turned up. Nikoto, apart from the military tribunal, did not begin to understand the details of this case. But for this, it is enough to ask any military man - what can happen if three people try to climb into the BMP and start closing the driver's mechanic, while swearing loudly and promising to fry him, the driver, at the stake? And any person will answer you - for this you need to get drunk or be wildly crazy, because even one person cannot stay on the BMP if the hatches are not open. However, this is all, even acquittal for the BMP driver, the verdict of the military tribunal did not prevent the Elzenoids from making these three idiots heroes of Russia. And dear aftor pvtaetsya smear you know what Mackey. Our armies and partisans are already not enough. Read the front-line stories of Sholokhov. With what frenzy and doom one of our soldiers is wielding a bayonet there. And the words from the poem "Kill him" are generally a guide for a sadist. But only when you find the reason for all this - you understand that the Germans sowed, then they reaped. [center] [/ center]