Black Death

109
Black Death

IL-2 take off on a combat mission from a field airfield, approximately 1942 year. These single-seat attack aircraft are armed with ShVAK cannons, with the exception of an aircraft in the foreground, equipped with a WYa cannon (with a longer barrel, which is ShVAK).

attack plane

Outside Russia, the IL-2 and the IL-10 remain, oddly enough, less known than the rest of the machines of the Second World War, although they were produced in large quantities than any other military aircraft in stories.


These, captured in 1944 year, double IL-2МЗ could be seen over the entire Eastern Front, which by that time had crossed the pre-war borders of the USSR and had gone deep into Poland and Romania.

In the 1930s, Soviet aircraft designers were tasked with creating an attack aircraft - an aircraft for the fire support of advancing troops and attacking enemy front lines. By then, the best in the world had already been created in the Soviet Union. aviation weapons, including heavy machine guns, heavy recoilless guns, small armor-piercing bombs and unguided rockets. At the beginning of the decade, a number of stormtrooper projects were developed, and in 1935 the Kremlin adopted a decree on the creation of an airborne landing gear (armored attack aircraft), specially designed to destroy armored vehicles and fortified enemy points. By 1938, the competition for the creation of an attack aircraft was led by OKB S.V. Ilyushin and P.O. Sukhoi. Both designers opted for a single-engine machine with a low wing. Ilyushin’s project was completed earlier, in the spring of 1939. Named TsKB-55 and received the official designation BSh-2, this prototype attack aircraft was equipped with a 35 hp liquid-cooled engine AM-1350, and it was double - the pilot and rear gunner / observer were located in his cockpit in tandem. The wing, hydraulic flaps and tail unit were made of light alloy, and the bottom of the fuselage was made of armor plate covering the lower part of the engine, cooling pipes, radiator, fuel tanks in the fuselage and the cabin Four 7,62 were installed on the wing, on the sides of the wheel struts -mm machine gun. The fifth machine gun was in the rear of the cab. Four containers were located in the central part of the fuselage, containing up to 600 kg of aerial bombs.


The Il-2MZ shows an unusual design solution: the rear light of the cab is removed to improve the visibility of the arrow. As a rule, at the disposal of the shooter was a twin gunshot machine gun. On board the attack aircraft is well read the word "Avenger".

in the picture more than 65 IL-2 are built in clear rows. Perhaps we have a solemn event that takes place after the defeat of Germany. The inscription “Chapaevtsy” on the fuselage can refer both to the hero of the Civil War, and to the city, village or collective farm named after him, whose residents raised money to build airplanes.


Shock program

Ilyushin was dissatisfied with poor armament, and test flights of TsKB-55 showed, as the designer predicted, its weak longitudinal stability.
The modified CCB-55, with a slightly shifted center of gravity and an increased tail plane, first flew into December 30 1939, but in summer 1940, the state commission found that the positive qualities of the machine did not redeem its poor stability, short range and overall performance. To save the attack aircraft, Ilyushin launched a “shock program” in his design bureau, and four months later he built TsKB-57. This prototype was equipped with an AM-38 engine with an 1600 horsepower. The aircraft became single (the tail light of the cockpit was replaced with an additional fuel tank), the armor plate became thinner and more successfully distributed along the fuselage, two machine guns on the wing were replaced with a ShVAK 20-mm aircraft cannon, and eight RS missiles appeared under the wing. -82. It was a much better machine, capable of speeds up to 440 km / h. Soon began mass production of the new attack aircraft at three aircraft factories - in Moscow, in Fili and in Voronezh.

Stalin vigilantly followed the release of IL-2. When a failure occurred in the production of aircraft, he told the plant manager: "The Red Army needs the Red Army like air, like bread ... this is my last warning."

When 22 June 1941 of the Year Germany attacked the USSR, the Soviet Air Force Il-2 attack aircraft were clearly not enough - just 249. In October, the plants from Moscow and Sirloin were transported along with workers to the east, and Kuybyshev became a new center for the production of attack aircraft. However, the production of IL-2 was still insufficient, and Stalin sent a formidable telegram to the factory directors, in which he called their behavior “sabotage”. At the beginning of 1942, the ShVAK cannons were replaced with more powerful 23-mm VY.
Later, in the 1942 year, the IL-2М2 model appeared with an AM-38F engine with an 1750 hp power, improved aerodynamics and armor enhanced to 950 kg. The loss of attack aircraft in the battles were huge, but it was considered impractical to cover the plane with armor from above and behind. Despite the fact that Stalin forbade the development of new attack aircraft, Ilyushin at his own risk developed a double prototype with a rear gunner sitting behind. This prototype first rose to the sky in March 1942. The gunner had a 12,7-mm UBT machine gun with 150 cartridges, and now, unlike the TsKB-55, the gunner was separated from the pilot by a fuel tank located in the middle of the cab. In October 1942, Stalin gave the nod to the production of this two-seater attack aircraft, which was named Il-2MZ, and by the end of the month began to flow to the front.

Fight for aerodynamics
With the advent of the rear arrow, the number of lost attack aircraft dropped sharply, while the number of casualties at the Luftwaffe increased. The production of attack aircraft at that time reached almost 1000 machines per month, despite the fact that small corrections were constantly made to the design of the aircraft in order to improve aerodynamics, since by that time the maximum Il-2 speed had decreased to 404 km / h. Changes that were supposed to improve the aerodynamics of the car were made without interrupting production. By the middle of 1943, the attack ground speed was increased to 439 km / h, and this despite the fact that the car was constantly heavy.
The increase in machine weight was partly due to the emergence of a new, highest-quality aircraft weapon. The most important event was the emergence of a new family of 37-mm guns, incomparable in caliber, accuracy and rate of fire with the previous ones. Suffice it to say that they were able to penetrate the armor - except the frontal - of the latest German tanks Pzkpfw V (Panther) and Pzkpfw VI (Tiger). In the wing bomb compartments, the attack aircraft could now carry an additional number of bombs, and the new suspension under the wing was designed for large (132 mm caliber) missiles PC-132 and containers for 200 small armor-piercing bombs PTAB.

In 1942, the first dual-control IL was introduced for training. A few more machines were reequipped under field conditions, and from 1943, the dual-control attack aircraft began to be produced in small batches at factories.

As a result of another field alteration, an IL-2T appeared, a torpedo bomber capable of carrying an 450-mm torpedo without difficulty.

During the war years, about X-NUMX Il-36163 machines were produced, after which in August 2 the industry switched to the production of the Il-1944 attack aircraft. By that time, aircraft production rates reached a record high: 10 machines per month, 2300 IL-1944 was released in the first eight months of 16000 (for the entire 10 year, "only" 1943 aircraft were released). Thus, if earlier it was difficult to fully form an assault aviation regiment exclusively from IL-11200, now, in the 2 year, it took part in separate operations before the 1944 attack aircraft - after their raids on the ground, not a single unit of enemy equipment remained able to move. As a rule, when entering an attack, the commander or leader gave the order: “Do as I do!”. After that, the entire armada of attack aircraft began to dive, pouring fire at the enemy and bombarding armor-piercing bombs. In the Red Army, Il-500 was affectionately called "Ilya", and the Germans gave him the nickname "Schwarz Tod" ("Black Death").

In 1943, the IL-2 began to enter service in foreign units. About 650 attack aircraft received Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Bulgaria, and after the war more 2000 machines were sent to China and North Korea. In some countries, including Poland and Czechoslovakia, IL-2 received a new local name, because many machines were modified - they were equipped with a variety of equipment, weapons, and even made the back of the fuselage of fabric-wrapped welded steel tubes.


At the end of the war, this IL-2MZ served in the Polish 3 storming regiment of the 1 th mixed air corps, one of the first non-Soviet units equipped with attack aircraft.

"Columns of captured Germans, while flying over them IL-2, fell to the ground. The convoy, realizing the futility of trying to raise the system, quietly smoking, waiting for them to pass an attack of fear."
From the memoirs of a veteran of the Great Patriotic War




109 comments
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  1. +4
    19 January 2013 10: 10
    Su-6 had to be developed.
    It is a pity the war did not leave time for debugging.
    1. Alex 241
      +12
      19 January 2013 17: 18
      It will be true that from the beginning of 1943 to April 1944, the Su-6 M-71F was the best Soviet armored attack aircraft. It is possible that with the sum of the factors, the Sukhoi attack aircraft with 37-mm cannons had the opportunity to become a serial and truly effective anti-tank aircraft, which was so necessary for our aviation during all the years of the Great Patriotic War. The success of the Su-6 was determined, among other things, by the fact that the M-71 and M-71F engines in terms of takeoff power exceeded the AM-38 and AM-38F engines by 300-500 hp, and at the nominal near the ground - by about 100 h.p. At the same time, Sukhoi attack aircraft had smaller dimensions and flight weight than the Il-2, with a slightly higher wing load. To ensure good maneuverability, the Su-6 used powerful wing mechanization. Good stability and controllability (in which the IL-2 was "lame" from the very beginning) was ensured by the successful layout of the aircraft. At the beginning, the armor and armament of the Su-6 was inferior to the Il-2 attack aircraft, but the Su-6 M-71F (two-seater version) surpassed it in terms of these indicators (excluding the normal bomb load).
      1. +3
        21 January 2013 08: 44
        Quote: 1
        Outside of Russia, the IL-2 and IL-10 remain, oddly enough, less well known than the rest of the vehicles of World War II.

        Neither the allies nor the opponents had anything like this, so according to their logic it could not have been with us, True, the Germans had a Flying steam locomotive "Henschel-129" but as a steam locomotive, don't make a steam locomotive and it will
    2. Cheloveck
      +1
      19 January 2013 18: 12
      It was impossible.
      The engine was not finished.
      1. +1
        20 January 2013 00: 16
        The engine was excellent. In February 41, it passed 50 hours of testing, if Shvetsov hadn’t slowed down then - by the fall of the 41st they had received a finished serial engine.
      2. +1
        20 January 2013 00: 37
        Sukhoi was asked to make an option for the AM-42 engine, which was done by him at the end of 1943. The aircraft was tested already in 1944. and inferior in speed to the Il-10 attack aircraft by 20-30 km per hour with the same engine.
    3. 0
      20 January 2013 00: 31
      The engine was not serial.
  2. Fox
    +13
    19 January 2013 10: 39
    IL-2 was a great plane, and when they knew how to fly, miracles worked: fighters were felled, and bombers ... everything is like everywhere, the bad dancer-eggs are in the way.
    1. +5
      19 January 2013 15: 28
      I support, the plane was wonderful at the time of its appearance, it wasn’t for him, but the Germans didn’t have any.
  3. +7
    19 January 2013 10: 45
    The IL-2 is the most massive aircraft in the world and made a very significant contribution to the Victory over the enemy. IL-2 has earned the nickname "black death" and "meat grinder" among the Germans for a reason.
    1. +6
      19 January 2013 21: 31
      Comrades, here he flies. http://fyodor-photo.livejournal.com/11733.html
  4. +10
    19 January 2013 11: 12
    From Wikipedia:
    Talgat Yakubekovich Begeldinov - Soviet attack pilot, twice Hero of the Soviet Union. During the two years of the war, T. Ya. Begeldinov made 305 sorties to attack the enemy ground forces, shot down 2 aircraft in air battles on the Il-7.
    1. +5
      19 January 2013 12: 26
      No wonder, the IL-2 without a bomb load could well pass for a heavy fighter, it was a nimble machine.
      1. Avenger711
        -1
        19 January 2013 13: 20
        No, it’s too slow, it’s literally iron, although he didn’t read about it in his memoirs about such use.
    2. Avenger711
      +4
      19 January 2013 13: 21
      Here, perhaps, we are talking about planes shot down by an air gunner, that is, it was counted to the entire crew.
      1. -1
        19 January 2013 14: 21
        look at the speed characteristics and think again about what you wrote here.
    3. +10
      19 January 2013 15: 36
      Memoirs of Talgat Yakubekovich ...
      “He pestered me, attacked, but did not hit. He wanted to drop me in the tail, but I do not give. And when he crossed into our territory, he became bolder. I think, can’t I shoot? He is behind me, and I am behind him. And he caught him in a deep turn. " Out of the corner of my eye I see, civilians are carefully recording my story. After listening to me, Kamanin says: “You shot down a pilot who shot down many planes in France, Poland and ours. Do you Begeldinov know what you did? Opened a new tactics in attack aircraft. It turns out that attack aircraft can fight fighters and can even shoot them down. I reward you for this with the Order of the Patriotic War of the 2nd degree. Nobody had such an order, we only learned from the newspapers that it was established. ”
      "Thank. Serving the Soviet Union! ” He returned to the regiment. Regiment commander: “Come on, come here. Why didn’t you report yesterday that the Fritz failed? ”
      “So yesterday our five people died, not before that.”
      “Oh, shy. OK Go".
      On the second day - my photograph in the newspaper and the article: "An attack aircraft can fight fighters, even shoot down." The civilians, as it turned out, were journalists.
      http://www.liter.kz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10632&Itemid=2
      There was no air combat between the attack aircraft and the fighter, but Talgat became angry when the Messerschmitt, from which he first tried to escape, began to pursue him. When the faster Messer was in front of the attack aircraft's sight, Sergeant Begeldinov pressed all the triggers. Because of the loss of speed, his car found itself in a stall position, leveling the plane, the pilot noticed how an experienced Luftwaffe pilot landed his burning Messer on a snowdrift.
      http://www.pravda.ru/society/fashion/models/17-09-2012/1128328-fly-1/
  5. +2
    19 January 2013 11: 13
    I read that the appearance of IL - 2 was a shock for the Germans.
    Especially Germans were surprised by his vitality and firepower.
  6. +7
    19 January 2013 11: 36
    Entire battalions signed letters of thanks to the infantry pilots of the Il-2, and this says a lot.
  7. +2
    19 January 2013 11: 38
    And in the war with the Japanese, our Il-10 with full load easily chased after their Zero and knocked them down lol
    1. +1
      19 January 2013 12: 27
      Well, actually it’s from the category of science fiction, since the Zero were superior in speed to the American fighters, and they were not inferior to the Soviet ones either.
      1. +6
        20 January 2013 13: 39
        At the end of the war, "Zeros" were weaker than most enemy fighters in most indicators, well, excluding outright junk. chasing "Zero" on Il-ah is fantastic, you can't catch up.
      2. -1
        20 January 2013 15: 46
        Zero to the end of the war, frank trash and what is surprising that the il-10 could catch up with it? with a bomb load and diving is very easy!
        1. +1
          20 January 2013 17: 28
          I agree no bomb loadbut with her it's fantastic.
          1. +5
            20 January 2013 21: 26
            so we open the manuals for technical characteristics and we see the maximum speed zero -533, the maximum speed il-10-551km / h, in your 533 km / h it is faster than 551km / h ????
            1. +1
              21 January 2013 01: 09
              IL-10 as a ground attack aircraft is good, but as an aerobatic plane (and he turned the aerobatics), according to the memoirs of veterans, it was a natural iron.
            2. 0
              21 January 2013 17: 07
              You know the maximum speed how it’s achieved - everything superfluous is out of gas at the maximum height, and the IL-2 at the lower altitudes fought off the Messers where anti-aircraft guns were hollowed by silt and the German pilots lost all the advantages of their machines, moreover, if you read below the comments on Alex 241 make sure that this was not.
              1. 0
                21 January 2013 20: 32
                For the Il-s, the only option to fight off Messer was to fly at maximally low altitude because it was there that the Messer lost his advantage in maneuver and the only thing he could do was stupidly hammer it from behind in the tail, namely this space was shot through by the UBT shooter. By the way, the maximum speed is achieved in reducing this way FVulfs always come off from the pursuit ... and they are not current.
  8. -6
    19 January 2013 12: 49
    In place of the shooter of the observer, the penalty battalions were often put in mortality among them was terrifying. What is the reason for this? everything is simple even when the factory began to equip places for shooters, all the equipment was reduced to the installation of a machine gun and a leather seat belt, and no one thought about additional armor.
    In general, Ilyushin acted meanly with observing arrows, but there was no other choice, otherwise his car would not have satisfied the TTZ and did not go into production.
    In Russia there is at least one IL-2 that survived on the fly.
    Without a bomb load, the IL-2 was quite maneuverable and could fight with fighters.
    IL-2 is one of the most (Yes to darken, it is the most famous) of the famous aircraft of the USSR since the Second World War.
    The myth of armor is quite resistant, but the thickness of 4mm allowed to confidently hold only bullets and already 20 mm anti-aircraft automatic guns posed a serious danger to the IL-2.
    1. Avenger711
      +3
      19 January 2013 13: 23
      A source of information about the penalty squads, pliz, but it turns out weird, there were units for fines, why should the offender be sent somewhere else?
      1. -4
        19 January 2013 14: 24
        for one flight they could forgive and restore to the ranks of the red army, and look for the source yourself on the parallel site http://warfiles.ru
        1. +2
          19 January 2013 14: 51
          but by the way, an article from the PM magazine, by Sergey Ivanov (what a rare surname! laughing )
          They also tried to solve the problem of protecting the rear hemisphere - the air gunner was again included in the crew. True, his machine gun was not a very effective weapon against German fighters, but still it was better than nothing. The second crew member flew in Spartan conditions, there was not even an elementary seat! He was sitting on a tarpaulin strap, which often broke off when bends in an airplane. And most importantly - the arrow was protected by a single armored plate at the back! From the sides and from the bottom, he was defenseless. Therefore, the place of the shooter in the IL-2 was often intended for fines. The famous pilot, participant of the Chkalov flight, Georgy Baidukov, commanded a stormtrooper division in the war and rated the two-seater Il-2 even lower than the single-seat: in it, the pilot had to think about how to maneuver over the target with the least risk to the shooter.

          Here is the evidence from a reputable and popular source with many thousand copies, and here is a link to the source: http://warfiles.ru/show-10108-mify-ob-il-2-bronelet.html
          1. FID
            +10
            19 January 2013 17: 01
            Popular mechanics reputable source? Popular - I agree, but respected .... By whom? In the States - maybe ... PM often enough carries such a blizzard ....

            Here is evidence from a reputable and popular source with many thousand copies,
            1. -1
              20 January 2013 11: 30
              well, let's give evidence that PM can be put on a par with TV Rain and Lenta.ru ...
      2. +3
        20 January 2013 15: 48
        the shtafniks were put in the place of the shooter-radio operator, i.e. the percentage of deaths among them was very large, the source Drabkin I fought on il-2. memoirs of veterans.
    2. +5
      19 January 2013 15: 34
      What kind of armor are we talking about?


      Il-2 junior lieutenant V.V. Titovich (872-th cap), damaged in battle by small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery fire. The plane received five hits of shells of caliber 37 mm. The elevator was broken, the right side member was destroyed, the right gun was torn out, the rear armored plates were torn from the cockpit.

      From the very beginning of combat use at the front, the Il-2 attack aircraft has established itself as a very durable and "hardy" combat aircraft. He saved the lives of many pilots, while maintaining volatility in the event of damage that for any other aircraft was, as they say, "incompatible with life." There were frequent cases when aircraft damaged in battle, having made a normal landing at their airfield, literally fell apart or could not be repaired due to a significant number of large and small injuries. The engineers of the assault regiments in the reporting documents indicated: “It was difficult to imagine how such aircraft could continue the flight. One thing was clear, the pilots took all measures to reach the airfield, knowing about major damage to the aircraft. "

      For example, on 12 of September 1941, when operating on enemy vehicles and tanks in the area of ​​Kholm on Il-2, Major Shust from the 62 head above the target with a direct hit of an anti-aircraft projectile, a bomb bay and a cluster of small bombs were broken. Bombs began to burst on the plane. Major Shust immediately dropped the remnants of the bombs. By tearing their bombs “the center section was badly damaged, all the ribs, the vertical stiffness of the side members, the whole power set of the center section were broken”. The emergency landing gear system failed as a result of damage. Nevertheless, the plane was brought to its airfield, where a successful landing on the fuselage was made. On 15 December 1942 the squadron commander of the 667 Shap 292 Shad Senior Lieutenant Kuznetsov safely returned from the combat mission with the following damage from anti-aircraft fire: the center wing, the fuselage and the right plane of the wing were broken by shells, the right aileron control rod and steering wheel cables were interrupted , in the left half of the elevator there was a hole with dimensions of 50x60 cm, the stabilizer spar was damaged, the tire and the chamber of the right wheel of the chassis were punched. After repair in the PARM-1 aircraft put into operation.

      IL - 2 was just tenacious, that is, capable of acting despite severe damage.
      1. +6
        19 January 2013 15: 41
        The Germans had a huge number of arguments against the IL-2, the saturation of troops with mobile air defense systems was very high. In contrast to the Red Army against which the Stucks were used with varying success until 1945.
        1. +4
          19 January 2013 15: 51
          ___________
          1. +4
            19 January 2013 15: 55
            And this is our means of mobile air defense quadruple maxim.
            Then of course there will be DShK, American Browning, even 37 mm but ...
            1. Alex 241
              0
              19 January 2013 16: 06
              The 37-mm automatic anti-aircraft gun of the 1939 model (61-K) (GRAU index - 52-P-167) is the Soviet anti-aircraft gun of the Great Patriotic War period. Designed based on the Swedish 40mm Bofors gun. Chief Designer - M. N. Loginov. It was the first Soviet automatic anti-aircraft gun, launched into large-scale production. On the basis of 61-K, a family of ship anti-aircraft guns was created, this gun was installed on the first Soviet serial self-propelled anti-aircraft guns on a tracked chassis ZSU-37. The 37-mm 61-K anti-aircraft guns were actively used throughout the Great Patriotic War, for a long time they were in service with the Soviet army. In addition to the fight against attack aircraft, fighter-bombers and dive bombers, the 61-K in 1941 was also used as anti-tank guns. In the post-war period, many guns were delivered abroad and took part in various post-war conflicts as part of foreign armies. The armies of many 61-K states are still in service today. [Media = http: // http: //www.youtube.com/watch? V = ihMv9C6YwNo]
            2. Alex 241
              +8
              19 January 2013 16: 07
              The 37-mm automatic anti-aircraft gun of the 1939 model (61-K) (GRAU index - 52-P-167) is the Soviet anti-aircraft gun of the Great Patriotic War period. Designed based on the Swedish 40mm Bofors gun. Chief Designer - M. N. Loginov. It was the first Soviet automatic anti-aircraft gun, launched into large-scale production. On the basis of 61-K, a family of ship anti-aircraft guns was created, this gun was installed on the first Soviet serial self-propelled anti-aircraft guns on a tracked chassis ZSU-37. The 37-mm 61-K anti-aircraft guns were actively used throughout the Great Patriotic War, for a long time they were in service with the Soviet army. In addition to the fight against attack aircraft, fighter-bombers and dive bombers, the 61-K in 1941 was also used as anti-tank guns. In the post-war period, many guns were delivered abroad and took part in various post-war conflicts as part of foreign armies. In service with the armies of many states 61-K are to this day
              1. +2
                19 January 2013 17: 28
                Quote: Alex 241
                to the first Soviet serial self-propelled anti-aircraft mounts on a crawler chassis ZSU-37.


                ZSU-37 in real battles of World War II did not participate
                1. Alex 241
                  +5
                  19 January 2013 17: 41
                  Soviet self-propelled anti-aircraft gun ZSU-37




                  ZSU-37 - the lightest in mass Soviet self-propelled artillery mount (ACS), belonging to the class of anti-aircraft self-propelled guns. Cars of this brand were mass-produced at the Mytishchi Engineering and Gorky Automobile Factories since 1944. Before the end of World War II, 70 self-propelled guns were built. The basis for the ZSU-37 was the light anti-tank self-propelled guns SU-76M. Production of the ZSU-37 continued in the post-war period, even after the withdrawal from production of the base SU-76M.
                  1. 0
                    21 January 2013 17: 27
                    Quote: Alex 241
                    ZSU-37 - the lightest in mass Soviet self-propelled artillery mount (ACS), belonging to the class of anti-aircraft self-propelled guns. Cars of this brand were mass-produced at the Mytishchi Engineering and Gorky Automobile Factories since 1944. Before the end of World War II, 70 self-propelled guns were built. The basis for the ZSU-37 was the light anti-tank self-propelled guns SU-76M. Production of the ZSU-37 continued in the post-war period, even after the withdrawal from production of the base SU-76M.

                    Think about it - TOTAL 70 pieces. And there is no information about the use of this product at the front.
                    For comparison, the Third Reich produced 106 Wirbelwind ZSU, 45 Ostwind, 141 Flakpanzer 38 (t), etc.
              2. 0
                21 January 2013 17: 18
                Quote: Alex 241
                The 37-mm automatic anti-aircraft gun of the 1939 model (61-K) (GRAU index - 52-P-167) is the Soviet anti-aircraft gun of the Great Patriotic War period.

                The trouble is that in the Red Army / SA of these guns, like the 25mm 72-K, the whole war was sorely lacking.
        2. 0
          19 January 2013 23: 41
          Quote: Kars
          The Germans had a huge number of arguments against IL-2,

          Basically, the loss of IL-2 was from fighter jets, in any case, Kamanin says so.
          1. +2
            19 January 2013 23: 46
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            Basically, the loss of IL-2 was from fighters, in any case, Kamanin claims


            I will not argue with this, because I don’t know.
            But I think that no one will argue with me, if I say that air defense is not only downed planes, but just the disruption of targeted bombing, and the use of cannon weapons, the presence of it ALREADY changes attack tactics and the boundaries of the use of airborne weapons.
        3. +2
          20 January 2013 15: 52
          "things" began to be changed to fv-190 from 43 years old, and the fact that someone flew them at 44, only because fv-190 was required by literally everyone and everywhere, and variable success, it is extremely doubtful that this would have been by 1945, a couple of successfully dropped bombs from the memoirs of the would-be pilot of the Luftwaffe are not an indicator for the whole picture.
          1. 0
            20 January 2013 16: 08
            Quote: tomket
            it is extremely doubtful that this would be by 1945



            As of January 31, 1945, only 104 Ju-87s remained operational from their unit. Other mixed Schlacht units contained another 70 Ju-87s and Fw 190s between them. Chronic fuel shortages kept Stukas justified and departures declined until the end of the war in May 1945

            if you search then the number of departures can be found.
            1. +2
              20 January 2013 18: 01
              and general frost prevented them! in general, typing on the Internet you can easily find stories how a thing easily knocked down spitfires, but we won’t blindly trust them
              1. 0
                20 January 2013 18: 10
                Quote: tomket
                and general frost prevented them

                Really?
                Quote: tomket
                it’s easy to find stories of how a thing easily knocked down spitfires, but we won’t blindly trust them

                I don’t care what you believe, but you won’t be able to protest the use of Pieces in 1945.
                So go for it.
                1. +1
                  20 January 2013 18: 16
                  Americans at the captured German attack aircraft Junkers Yu-87 (Ju-87G) at the airfield in Czechoslovakia. (Night light)
                2. 0
                  20 January 2013 21: 00
                  Yes, my God, you can also find crutches for use in the 45 year, and what we assume that they were modern aircraft and analogues of the il-2 ?????
                  1. +1
                    20 January 2013 21: 28
                    Quote: tomket
                    yes god

                    Not so, just Kars.

                    Quote: tomket
                    You can also find crutches in the year 45

                    All the same, then what are the claims?
                    Quote: tomket
                    what we assume that they were modern aircraft and analogues of il-2 ?????

                    And what does it have to do with? Where do I have comparisons of planes? First read the comments using the arrows, then flood.
                    Quote: Kars
                    the saturation of troops with mobile air defense systems was very high. In contrast to the Red Army, against which the Stucks were used with varying success until 1945

                    I’m talking about military air defense and its richness and effectiveness. If this topic suits you, we can continue.
        4. ivan7979
          +1
          20 January 2013 18: 40
          behind the trophies are rolling (t-26)?
      2. 0
        21 January 2013 17: 15
        Quote: GEORGE
        IL - 2 was just tenacious, that is, capable of acting despite severe damage.

        Perhaps it would be more correct to say - able to return to the base airfield despite the damage. Although the forced use of wood in the power set just did not add vitality. :-(
    3. +1
      21 January 2013 17: 11
      Quote: cth; fyn
      In place of the shooter of the observer, the penalty battalions were often put in mortality among them was terrifying. What is the reason for this? everything is simple even when the factory began to equip places for shooters, all the equipment was reduced to the installation of a machine gun and a leather seat belt, and no one thought about additional armor.

      Yes, yes ... This is probably why most of the shooters were from the courses of the shooters-observers, or volunteers from the BAO. The lyrics about the shooters from the penal battalion (for a minute, like officers) - in the "fairy tales" section would look more logical :-).
      1. 0
        21 January 2013 20: 41
        There were ten dead shooters per one pilot killed, maybe that’s why there were cases when a hero was given for ten sorties, although as a rule they were given for a hundred ...
  9. 8 company
    +19
    19 January 2013 12: 53
    The plane is gorgeous, played the role of the T-34, only in the sky. Inexpensive, massive, simple and terrible for the enemy.
    1. FID
      +3
      19 January 2013 17: 38
      A very concise but CAPTIVE comment. Plus to you!
  10. AlexMH
    +5
    19 January 2013 13: 40
    As for the "Black Death" - in the opinion of most authors, this is a legend, not confirmed by German sources .. The Germans called the Il-2 "Concrete Plane" and "Iron Gustav". Actually, the strength of the Il-2 is not in its invulnerability (the tail is wooden, and German fighters were quite adept at shooting it down), but in its massive scale and powerful armament. By the way, the 37-mm cannons generally did not justify themselves - they did not penetrate the armor very effectively (the initial speed is insufficient and the quality of the shells is not the same, and subcaliber ones with a tungsten core were not produced for them). In fact, it was guaranteed that tanks would only be defeated if they hit the upper armor from a steep dive, which was unrealistic for the Il-2 - it was not a dive bomber. Here is an article about the NS-37 cannon.
    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%A1-37

    The main anti-tank weapons of IL-2 (and very effective) were the cumulative bombs of the PTAB, and the main purpose of the IL-2 was not the fight against tanks, but the destruction of infantry, artillery, marching columns. For all these tasks, VYA-23 guns, bombs and missiles were enough, which is why the next attack aircraft, IL-10, again had VYA-23, missiles and bombs, although no one bothered to construct it immediately under the 37 or 45-mm a gun, if there was such a need.
    1. Avenger711
      +2
      19 January 2013 14: 12
      37 mm recoil the plane was very slow. A similar effect is given by the gun on the modern A-10.
      1. FID
        +4
        19 January 2013 17: 41
        A volley of both guns practically stopped the plane. In the instructions for combat use, it was recommended to shoot bursts of no more than two shells.
        1. Alex 241
          +7
          19 January 2013 17: 50
          The report on the ground tests of the SFC-37 cannons on the Il-2 aircraft emphasized that the flight crews should be well trained in conducting aimed fire with short bursts (2-3 projectile in the queue) for small-sized targets such as a separate tank, car, etc. . That is, for successful use of the IL-2 with the ShFK-37 guns, the attack pilot had to have excellent shooting and flight training.

          The fact is that aimed firing from the ShFK-37 cannons on the Il-2 aircraft was largely difficult due to the strong recoil of the guns when firing and the lack of synchronization in their operation. The latter, due to the large spacing of the guns relative to the center of mass of the aircraft, as well as due to the insufficient rigidity of the mount of the gun mount, led to the fact that the attack aircraft experienced strong shocks, "pecks" when firing, and strayed from the aiming line, and this, in turn, caused Taking into account the insufficient longitudinal stability of the "Ila", it led to a significant dispersion of shells and a sharp decrease (about 4 times) in firing accuracy.

          Shooting from the same gun was completely impossible. The attack aircraft immediately turned in the direction of the firing gun so that it was impossible to introduce an amendment to the aiming. In this case, hitting the target could only be the first projectile.

          Nevertheless, the general conclusion of the tests was that the Il-2 attack aircraft with the ShFK-37 guns is an effective means of combating German light and medium tanks. It was recommended to build a small series of such aircraft for military trials and to form special groups of attack pilots trained in aiming from high-caliber cannons with Il-2 at ground targets and trained to fight German tanks in the regiments.
          1. Alex 241
            +1
            19 January 2013 17: 57
            .................................................. ........................
          2. FID
            +1
            19 January 2013 17: 59
            Great, Sash! I remember that in the journal "Aviation and Cosmonautics" (I subscribed to it) in 2009 or 2010 there was a series of articles about the Ilyushin attack aircraft. They wrote that about 4-5% of shells (23 mm or 37 mm, it doesn't matter) fell into the tank. And this is on the target, but on a moving target - almost 0.
            1. Alex 241
              +1
              19 January 2013 18: 06
              Hi Seryozha. In addition to the poor pilot training, tactical miscalculations and the imperfection of the sights, such a design flaw of the IL-2 aircraft as the excessively rear alignment affected it. Because of it, the "humpbacked" was distinguished by insufficient longitudinal stability. And this increased the dispersion of bullets and shells during firing, made it difficult to aim, introduced lateral corrections into it, and kept the line of sight of the target during firing - in a word, reduced the aiming (and, accordingly, the effectiveness) of the fire. Especially unstable were the double “silts”, produced in late 1942 - early 1944: due to the installation of the cockpit arrow, their centering moved even more backward. It was possible to improve the longitudinal stability of the IL-2 only in the spring of 1944, when aircraft with an increased sweep of the leading edge of the wing consoles began to arrive at the front. However, out of 24 double IL-959s received by the Red Army Air Force in 2–1943, only 1945 had a wing with an arrow, that is, 11% (and if we consider only those received before May 066, 44,3, this percentage will be even lower). The result is summed up by veteran N.I.Purgin, veteran of the 9th assault air regiment: "The only accurate weapons for the attack aircraft are guns, machine guns, and it’s better to shoot at the squares."
              1. Alex 241
                +3
                19 January 2013 18: 10
                Turning to assessing the effectiveness of the weapons and equipment of IL-2, we emphasize first of all that the "humpbacks" throughout the war did not have more or less satisfactory sights! As already noted, the PBP-16 sight, which was mounted on attack aircraft in 1941, was practically useless when the practice of striking from a low-level flight was common then - the target ran in and out of sight too quickly for the pilot to use this rather complicated device. Therefore, in the front parts of the PBP-16, as a rule, they were removed until the middle of 1942. aiming ... by eye - firing a machine-gun burst at the target and turning the plane depending on where the route went (and dropping bombs by time delay). For bombing from horizontal flight from altitudes of more than 50 m in the fall of 1941, they began to use sighting marks applied to the windshield of the cockpit lantern and the hood of the aircraft, but they also "were inconvenient to use", and most importantly, "did not provide the required accuracy of the bombing. And from the middle of 1942 - when attack aircraft began to practice diving from a gentle dive and when PBP-16 could be useful - all IL-2s were equipped with a primitive mechanical sighting device BB-1 as a sight, consisting of a front sight pin and a crosshair on the windshield of a flashlight cabs - “bring the crosshairs under the pin and throw”. Although E. Chernikov claims that “the required accuracy of firing and bombing from a gentle dive, BB-1 provided, tests showed that the accuracy of aiming with this sight was less than when using the PBP-1 collimator sight b. “We drop the bombs“ by eye, ”according to our feelings,“ “all by intuition,” openly characterize the bombing from the Il-2 equipped with the BB-1 sighting device, which fought in 1943-1945. respectively, in the 312th assault air regiment of the 233rd assault air division and 211th (then the 154th guards) assault regiment of the 307th assault air division N.I. Shtangeev and Yu.S. Afanasyev. Even such a "point" target as a steam locomotive, echoed by him, who fought in 1944. in the 566th assault air regiment of the 224th assault air division L.S. Dubrovsky, had to be bombed "by eye" ...
                1. Alex 241
                  +2
                  19 January 2013 18: 11
                  Armor-piercing incendiary shells of the NS-37 cannon from a distance of up to 500 m could penetrate any armor plates of the Marder II, Marder III and Vespe self-propelled artillery guns, which were then widespread in the Wehrmacht, and when firing from planning at an angle of 5 -10 ° - and 30 mm side and aft sheets of medium tanks Pz-III and Pz-IV and self-propelled guns StuG40, StuGIV, JagdPzIV / 70. In addition, they disabled any German tank or self-propelled guns by hitting the undercarriage - causing the latter significant damage. However, the probability of getting into the tank from the NS-37 was very small. When shooting in the usual front-line method - from a dive to a 30 ° angle from a distance of 300-400 m - according to Pz-IV, it did not exceed 4-7% even with a well-trained pilot - so that for guaranteed destruction of one tank it was necessary to send 15 - 25 Il -2 (and with moderate or poorly trained pilots - and even more). The fact is that the powerful NS-37 had a very high recoil force ("when you open fire, the feeling that the plane is stopping," after firing, "the whole plane began to breathe, it was loose"). Because of this, “the fighter attack aircraft“ pecked ”in the vertical plane, and since the two guns suspended under the wing fired asynchronously, the recoil force of each of them also alternately turned the aircraft from left to right. The aiming, of course, got off and to avoid the need to aim during the attack again was only possible by shooting in short bursts of 2-3 shells. But this also reduced the probability of being hit, and the dispersion of the shells still remained too large. (When firing from one gun, the plane, after the first shot, turned so far towards this weapon that the pilot did not have time to aim again until the attack was withdrawn.) We add that aiming at the “silt” with the NS-37 was generally not easy: installation under the wing of two heavy guns in massive fairings caused a large mass span along the wing span, and this made the "anti-tank" Ilyushin very difficult to pilot. In general, with the poor training of most of the Soviet Il-2 attack pilots with NS-37 as an anti-tank weapon It turned out to be ineffective - why, by a resolution of the State Defense Committee of November 12, 1943, it was withdrawn from production.
                  1. Alex 241
                    0
                    19 January 2013 18: 18
                    1. 2 filling gauge. 3 recharge gauge. The steering wheel of the 4 water deflector. 5 stopcock. Pressure gauge onboard 6. Optional 7 crane. 8 faucet handle. Brake Crane 9. 10 chassis crane handle. 11 height adjustment knob. 12 Normal Gas Handle. 13 trimmer handle. Charge indicators 14. 15 water thermometer. 16 rev counter. Thermometer incoming oil 17. Steering wheel pitch control wheel 18. Steering wheel control aircraft 19. 20 cannon trigger. Sniper for stelby from machine guns 21. Three-pointer 22 indicator. Petrol 23. 24 speed indicator. Variometer 25. 26 altimeter. 27 direction indicator. Navigator 28. Magneto 29 switch. 30 dashboard light switch. Cab light switch 31. Radio 32. Pedal (right) control aircraft 33. 34 electrical control panel. 35 watch. 36 voltmeter. The socket for turning on the backlight PBP-1 37. Signal lights chassis 38. 39 fuse panel. Electrical switch panel 40. 41 fire cock handle. Pressure gauge cylinder launch 42. 43 Emergency Drop Handle. Reflector of a cabin bulb 44. Electric shells ESBR-ZP 45. Electric diverter of bombs ESBR-ZP 46. 47 chassis emergency release handle. Fuel unit (start-up valve, distribution valve, fuel pump plunger, 48 air valve. 49 oil cooler control knob. 50 pneumatic overload safety knob. 51 microtelephone protection knob. 52 crutch stopper.
                    1. Alex 241
                      +1
                      19 January 2013 18: 22
                      IL-2 M-82IR. The cockpit and air gunner. State tests, 1942
                      1. Alex 241
                        0
                        19 January 2013 18: 24
                        IL-2 with a home-made defensive installation under the UBT machine gun. Air Force Black Sea Fleet, 1942
                      2. Alex 241
                        +2
                        19 January 2013 18: 26
                        All that remains of the German convoy after the IL-2 raid
                      3. Alex 241
                        +3
                        19 January 2013 18: 29
                        "Mixed in a bunch - horses, people"
                      4. Alex 241
                        +1
                        19 January 2013 18: 31
                        Attack aircraft of the 8th General Staff of the Black Sea Fleet Air Force at the start before a combat mission, 1943
                      5. Alex 241
                        +2
                        19 January 2013 18: 32
                        Captain V. B. Emelianenko in the cockpit of his "hundredth" with a musical emblem (performed by regimental artist A. Bulyndenko). Airfield Art. Timoshevskaya, August 1943
                      6. Alex 241
                        +1
                        19 January 2013 18: 35
                        The IL-2 plane was extremely unpretentious to the state of airfields, therefore, country roads or forest glades were often used to base the attack aircraft. Moscow region, autumn 1941
                      7. Alex 241
                        0
                        19 January 2013 18: 36
                        IL-2 at the exit of the attack
                      8. Alex 241
                        +1
                        19 January 2013 18: 37
                        Attack aircraft in combat formation perform a maneuver to attack
                      9. Alex 241
                        0
                        19 January 2013 18: 39
                        IL-2 on takeoff. Kursk direction, 1943
                    2. 0
                      19 January 2013 21: 25
                      .................................................. ......................
            2. Insurgent
              +2
              19 January 2013 21: 01
              There is an IL-2 attack aircraft game computer, you can imagine yourself as a pilot, albeit a vertical
          3. Insurgent
            0
            19 January 2013 20: 59
            Fritz and a 75 mm gun were put on their planes
            1. +1
              20 January 2013 18: 48
              Il-2 - with large-caliber anti-tank guns. AM-38F engine. A serial aircraft was taken and instead of the previous ShVAK and VYa cannons, two Nudelman NS-OKB-16 guns of 37 mm caliber were installed on it. Installed 2 ShKAS and one drill collar at the shooter. Weight has increased by 760 kg. The NS-OKB-16 cannon could hit any tanks up to the Tigers. They were very useful during the Battle of Kursk.

              IL-2I - "Bomber Fighter" - the wing was reinforced, the bomb armament was removed, and two VYa guns were left. The aircraft was produced in one copy, had no success and was declared inexpedient in state tests in July 1943. against German fighters and high-speed bombers, he could not conduct an active offensive battle, against other aircraft - only at altitudes of no more than 4000 m.

              IL-1 - a single fighter of small and medium heights. Engine AM-42 in 2000 hp The plane was, as it were, a smaller copy of the IL-2 single with a reduced wing area and increased flight data. The speed reached 580 km / h at an altitude of 3260 m and 525 km / h near the ground. It was not mass-produced, since in 1944 flight performance was already required higher.

              IL-2U (UIL-2, IL-2 training) - a training version of the double IL-2 with a second control in the rear cockpit, with greatly reduced armament. It was released in 1943 and was mass-produced in relatively small quantities until 1945.

              IL-2 (with M-82 engine) - this option was created as a spare, because the plant that produced AM-38 was evacuated to unprepared production facilities. When installing an air-cooled engine on the IL-2, the front of the armored hull, which this engine did not need, was removed. The transition from the engine to the fuselage turned out to be smooth, but it was important to make a general assessment of this option with the arrow cabin. The experiment did not justify itself. Empty weight decreased, but flight performance worsened. ON ILLUSTRATION ----- IL-1
  11. 0
    19 January 2013 13: 55
    good afternoon
    To tell the truth, I never thought about whether Japanese fighters fought against the Il-10 or vice versa. I treated this superficially - I solve other problems. He believed that by August 1945, the Japanese imperial aviation no longer existed. Tell me where you can read about these battles. Below is a small comparison of aircraft. there, the year of the start of serial production and the maximum speed of serial aircraft. Please tell me what the abbreviation "IMHO" means, which is often found on the forum.

    Micubishi A6M Reisen (Zero) 1940
    533 km/h

    Curtis P-40 Warhawk 1939
    570 km/h

    La 7 1944
    680 km / h

    Ilyushin IL-10 1944
    600 km/h

    Republic P-47 Thunderbolt 1942
    697 km/h

    North American P-51 Mustang 1942
    703 km/h
    1. Avenger711
      +1
      19 January 2013 14: 10
      The Kwantung Army simply didn’t have a serious air force, and therefore it was not necessary to fight in the sky.

      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMHO
      1. avt
        +2
        19 January 2013 15: 59
        Quote: Avenger711
        The Kwantung Army simply didn’t have a serious air force, and therefore it was not necessary to fight in the sky.
        Not a true statement! If you look for the weak point of japs ​​in the Kwantung army, it is rather the lack of sufficient fuel and lubricants for serious, protracted battles.
    2. +3
      19 January 2013 14: 46
      Иmeyu Мgenius Хren Оargue. =IMHO
      1. 0
        19 January 2013 17: 28
        Got it. Thank.
        1. +1
          22 January 2013 14: 08
          Quote: hrad
          Please tell me what the abbreviation "IMHO" means, which is often found on the forum.


          Quote: ALPETSEM
          I have an Opinion, Horseradish Challenge. = IMHO

          Not certainly in that way. More precisely - not at all like that.
          IMHO is the spelling in Russian letters of the English abbreviation IMHO - In My Humble Opinion. What does "In my humble opinion" mean :)))
          That is, this is the personal opinion of the author. not claiming the ultimate truth. And quite tangible. :)))
    3. Alex 241
      +3
      19 January 2013 16: 20
      IL-10 took part in a short war in the Far East. By the beginning of hostilities against Japan, the 26th cap had been completed by the 12th Shad of the Pacific Fleet Air Force. It was the only regiment in the region armed with new attack aircraft. As of August 9, he had 36 IL-10.

      On the morning of the first day of the war, 23 aircraft of the 26th Shap under cover of 31 Yak-9 from the 14th IAP attacked ships and vehicles in the Korean port of Rasin. Three attack aircraft groups of six vehicles each attacked Japanese ships from a dive at an angle of 25 ° - 30 ° in order to suppress anti-aircraft artillery (both naval and mounted on moorings). Following the suppression groups, after three minutes, the fourth IL-25 group, led by the regiment commander Major AM Nikolaev, bombed with a top-mast method from vehicles that were in the internal roadstead from a height of 10 m. Planes came from different directions. Each topmaster carried a pair of FAB-250 bombs. According to crew reports, one vehicle was sunk and one damaged.

      Despite the fact that most of the forces were directed at suppressing anti-aircraft artillery, during the attack, Japanese anti-aircraft gunners shot down two IL-10s over the port, and lost a couple of “dozen” due to injuries sustained in battle on the way back. Such a significant loss of attack aircraft was a complete surprise to the Soviet command.

      A second blow to Racin was dealt by 14 IL-10, divided into three groups. The first attacked the positions of anti-aircraft artillery, and the other two, after 8-10 minutes, entered the transports that were on the roadstead. They bombed again with the top-mast method, from a height of 25 m. The crews announced the sinking of two transports, while the regiment lost one more IL-10. In addition, from the MZA fire, most of the attack aircraft were damaged.

      At dawn on August 10, the planes of the 26th Shap again participated in raids on Racine. Of the 18 IL-10s flying on a mission, one did not return to its airfield. The pilot managed to land a damaged attack aircraft in the sea, where the crew picked up a flying boat "Catalina". The total irretrievable losses of the regiment in two days amounted to 6 IL-10. In addition, a significant number of new attack aircraft were damaged. IL-2 during the attacks on the port lost about the same.

      In general, the crews of the 26th Shap claimed to have sunk five transports. The bomber regiments declared the sinking of two ships and the dive divers about ten. In fact, of the 12 vessels found by the emergency services in the port area, only five had pronounced damage from air bombs, the rest sank due to underwater holes (from torpedoes and mines). How to divide them between all who participated in the raid on the port is unknown.

      Further, the regiment acted only on land. On August 17, the goals for his pilots were railroad trains and the track at the entrance to the tunnel north of Seishin. The task was carried out by two groups of attack aircraft. The first, out of five IL-10s, bombed a fork in the Seisin – Rasin railway from a dive, and the second, using the top-mast method, “rolled” the FAB-100 into the tunnel. Having destroyed it, the pilots dealt a serious blow to the enemy’s communications in North Korea.
    4. 0
      21 January 2013 17: 38
      Quote: hrad
      Please tell me what the abbreviation "IMHO" means, which is often found on the forum.

      The acronym born from the English "IMHO" is most often considered to be a decoding of the expression In My Humble Opinion ("in my humble opinion"), but in Russian it is usually deciphered as ALPETSEM answered.
  12. 0
    19 January 2013 14: 22
    So "Andrei57" confused me.
  13. Alex 241
    +5
    19 January 2013 14: 58
    Enthusiasts from Novosibirsk restored and lifted the legendary Il-2 attack aircraft
    1. Alex 241
      +3
      19 January 2013 15: 04
      .................................................. ..............................
      ......
      1. +1
        19 January 2013 15: 11
        What other planes were restored?
        1. Alex 241
          +3
          19 January 2013 15: 17
          Uploaded 20.08.2011/XNUMX/XNUMX
          The airfield of the World War II era was recreated at MAKS-2011. Watch on the video RIA Novosti how the rare I-16, Po-2, MiG-3U planes rose into the sky over Zhukovsky.
          1. Alex 241
            +1
            19 January 2013 15: 19
            This is unfortunately in America.
            1. Alex 241
              +1
              19 January 2013 15: 21
              .................................................. ..............................
              ..................
              1. Alex 241
                0
                19 January 2013 15: 23
                .................................................. ...........................
                1. +1
                  19 January 2013 15: 25
                  Here there is something to see. http://wmuseum.ru/ssha/464-muzey-kollekciya-letnogo-naslediya.html
                  Sorry that the enemy museum but the technique is interesting.
                2. Alex 241
                  0
                  19 January 2013 15: 25
                  .................................................. ..............................
                  ...
            2. +1
              19 January 2013 15: 26
              In general, it would be great to have all types of previously released aircraft "on the wing." If only the bombers would be restored.
              In America, private traders have a MiG-15,17. I saw something like that on TV.
              1. Alex 241
                0
                19 January 2013 15: 30
                ......................................................................
                1. Alex 241
                  0
                  19 January 2013 15: 32
                  ............................................................................
                  1. Alex 241
                    +1
                    19 January 2013 15: 36
                    .................................................. ..............................
                    ..............
                    1. Alex 241
                      +2
                      19 January 2013 15: 39
                      .................................................. ..............................
      2. 0
        19 January 2013 15: 13
        It was about him that I wrote above, it’s good that there are such people who can bring history to life in metal back to life.
  14. 0
    19 January 2013 15: 15
    The article did not like. Too much of it does not correspond to what I knew about IL-2 before. There are no accuracy, and in my opinion there are too many of them.
  15. avt
    +2
    19 January 2013 15: 17
    The plane is outstanding for its time! ! !good It is technologically advanced for mass production in wartime good ! As for the "meanness" of Ilyushin in relation to the shooters - this is to the customer! Specifically to the Chief of the Red Army Air Force, 2nd Rank Army Commander A.D. Loktionov, he approved from 1939 the protocols of the Airplane Commission from the model and then {repressed before the war}. As for the fighter qualities - a big stretch, but during the war that does not happen, the PE-2 and the Messers were contacted, but only with the 109E, more or less on equal terms. Ilyushin tried to make the IL-1 armored fighter, but it did not work. There were significant losses in the attack aviation, BUT they were due to the fact that there was not always fighter cover (especially at the beginning of the war), the air defense of the German ground forces was very serious, there was a lot of automatic small-caliber artillery, and besides, attack aircraft often used off-profile - like bombers ... One can only regret that due to objective reasons {wartime with all the ensuing consequences} IL-10 appeared rather early!
  16. +1
    19 January 2013 15: 28
    Alas, as in the case of the 34th, the main advantage of the IL-2 is that it has already been mastered by industry. Both, especially at first, had a breakthrough of shortcomings and childhood diseases. Yes, they improved slowly, but on the whole they remained machines that were very unkind to their crew, there were problems with survivability.
    And in both cases, the best - objectively and universally recognized - T-43 and Su-6 aircraft remained experimental and were sacrificed to the god of Established Series Production, the realities of total war.
  17. xan
    +4
    19 January 2013 15: 30
    read on the site "I remember", for attack pilots it was important how they were covered by fighters. One attack aircraft recalled that when they were covered by fighters of one familiar squadron, they even took additional bombs instead of shooters, all the same, the vaunted German Assam had nothing to shine. In general, 7 thousand attack pilots died during the war - that's a lot. True, at the end of the war, despite the saturation of the German air defense, the losses were only about 1 aircraft per 200 sorties - how much can you gouge an attack aircraft for 200 sorties?
    1. Alex 241
      +2
      19 January 2013 16: 17
      Heavily damaged single-seat attack aircraft Il-2, who managed to reach his airfield and sat down "on the belly."
      1. Alex 241
        +3
        19 January 2013 16: 23
        “On half the wing, but on parole,” so Soviet pilots spoke about the IL-2's survivability. Having such damage, the Il-2 attack aircraft from the 7th Guards Shap nevertheless returned from a combat mission, summer 1943.
        1. Alex 241
          0
          19 January 2013 16: 24
          .................................................. ..............................
          .........
          1. Alex 241
            0
            19 January 2013 16: 27
            Airplane Il-2 of the Hero of the Soviet Union Major M.Z. Bondarenko from the 198th cap at the place of emergency landing on June 8, 1943. after departure to strike the enemy airfield Seshcha
    2. Alex 241
      +2
      19 January 2013 17: 14
      To the Commissar of Defense Comrade To Stalin

      ... I consider it my duty to present requirements to the designer and the aviation industry to improve our formidable attack aircraft. Based on practical personal combat use and feedback, wishes of the flight crew, the aircraft has many good qualities, which I will not talk about. At the same time, it has several disadvantages. . . The main disadvantage of the aircraft is that it is completely defenseless from the rear from fighter jets. The enemy fighter in most cases approaches 10 ... 15 meters from behind and from the side and hits the plane with cannons and machine guns, trying to hit the engine or pilot. There are frequent cases when a pilot is incapacitated through a lantern and a vent window with a shell that breaks in the cockpit, and then the plane.

      The reference to the fact that this weak spot is compensated by the cover of fighters does not pay much. Basically, the attack aircraft operates on the front line of defense and from low altitude, and if our fighters follow it, they will suffer heavy losses from machine-gun fire, which the front line is very saturated with. In almost all cases, our fighters fly over the target at an altitude of 1000 ... 1500 meters and often even lose sight of attack aircraft, and at this time at low altitudes - from shaving to 100 meters - enemy fighters attack our planes. Often the enemy has two groups of fighters, one at a height engages in a battle with our fighters, and the other hunts for attack aircraft. Conclusion: it is necessary to put an arrow with a machine gun behind the pilot (where the technician lands during flights). To do this, you need to transfer the pilot’s armored plate to the very rear of the armored hull so that the shooter is behind reliable armor. .

      . . .An aircraft mounted sight for firing PBP-1, which is designed for dive bombers, with vertical and horizontal mixing, which for the attack aircraft are completely unnecessary. The sight is bulky and interferes with the view of the pilot, especially at low altitude. When landing on the fuselage, the pilot beats his head against it .. It is advisable to install a simple and cheap ring sight on an airplane. . .

      Navigator 243 ShAP, captain Koval E. Ya.
  18. +4
    19 January 2013 16: 50
    there is a story that during the battle for Berlin, in order to suppress the German defense (or so that the Germans were hiding in cover), they offered to "extinguish" the Germans with Il-2 attack aircraft, but, as correctly noted, this is not a dive bomber, and place bombs exactly on German positions in a city battle with a distance of 30-50 meters between the lines of fighters, it is unrealistic. Zhukov ordered the attack aircraft to fly out with ammunition, but do not bomb over the contact line, so as not to hurt their own. The attack aircraft simply went into the attack - the Germans buried themselves in the cracks, our soldiers were successfully moving forward at that time. Conditioned reflexes were developed not only in Pavlov's dogs, but also in the Germans, those who, at the sound of an attacking IL-2, did not burrow as deeply into the ground as possible, fertilized the ground, and the rest regularly "dug" wherever possible. And about battles with German fighters - one example (if the pilot is good): "Messer" enters the tail of the Il-2, goes to a distance of 150-200 meters to open fire, the Il-2 releases braking elements (as when landing) and suddenly loses speed without loss of "volatility" - "Messer" naturally jumps forward, IL-2 lifts its nose and thrust "firepower" into the German with the whole board - usually nothing was left of the "Messer". But such a maneuver requires flying art ...
    1. Alex 241
      +2
      19 January 2013 17: 05
      Both operations, and in the west of Moscow and in the west of Stalin, were glad to have some common features. One of them was the use of IL-2 as an attack aircraft to destroy groups of bombers and, above all, slow transports. In the Stalingrad region of this type, missions were mainly carried out by patrolling the routes of transports by Il-2 groups from the same division or by assault attacks of enemy airfields. In the area of ​​Demyansk, patrols first tried to shoot down the lead aircraft without getting involved in an organized air battle. Only later, due to unsatisfactory results, the tactics of unexpected attacks on the Ju-52 clusters began to be used. Near Stalingrad, the effectiveness of attacks from the very beginning was very high. In just one day, January 9, 1943, during one flight of seven Il-2 out of 622 ShAPs under the command of Captain I. Bakhtin, during an unexpected attack at the Salsk airfield, 72 Ju-52 were destroyed and three more were shot down in the air, losses in four of their vehicles (including the Yak cover fighter). Nearly the same success was achieved under Demyansk 243 SHAD of Colonel I.V.Delnov, who in one attack on the airfield in Glebovshchina destroyed or damaged more than 70 German aircraft, most of them Ju-52. A little later squadron st. Lieutenant Oleinikov from the same division attacked the airfield of transport aircraft at the time of landing of enemy vehicles. Panic arose, and the Russians announced eight downed Ju-52s and six more set on fire on the ground. Hunting the Germans in the air did not bring such successes, however, at the end of 1942 and the beginning of 1943, it was not completely fruitless either; at least officially. After the first weeks of the fall of 1942, the pilots of the attack aircraft gained experience and began to achieve success. Major P.A.Savchenko, out of 74 ShAP, raised on alarm along with his three wingmen (and accompanied by 4 fighters) intercepted a group of German bombers and announced the destruction of three of them, while the remaining Il-2 pilots shot down only one. Pilots such as Galin, Oleinik, Nesterov and Frolov, who shot down three Ju-52s in one take-off, could boast similar results. However, Zhigarin was ahead of all of them, who, after returning from one sortie, announced two Ju-52 shot down in the air and seven more destroyed on the ground. In total, only in the second half of 1942, pilots of 243 SHADs “screwed up” 44 Luftwaffe aircraft near Demyansk, most of them Ju-52. Seven were the most successful - crews from 33 Guards SHAP, who stated that they had shot down 15 of these transporters in one sortie.

      On February 5, 1943, due to a shortage of fighters, the Il-2 group of the 299th ShAD of the 15th VA was sent to the area of ​​Livny to cover (!) The battle formations of ground forces from attacks by German bomber aviation. After the end of the patrol when leaving the front line, Lieutenant Kalchik lagged behind the group and was attacked from the rear hemisphere by one Bf109. Seeing that "Messerschmitt" was catching up with him at high speed, the lieutenant removed the gas and turned the attack aircraft to the right. The fighter jumped up from under the left plane. Lieutenant Kalchik turned over his Il and gave a cannon burst at the enemy - a fighter engulfed in flames crashed into the ground. At this time, the Il-2 was attacked from the rear from the left by another Messerschmitt. When the enemy approached [327] at a distance of opening fire, Lieutenant Kalchik repeated the same maneuver, but with a turn to the left. As a result, the "Messer" jumped forward of the Il-2 from under the right plane. From a cannon burst, the Bf 109 literally fell apart and fell to the ground. Major General Pyatikhin, commander of the 15th Air Force, witnessed this air battle. At the end of the battle, the general immediately sent a telegram to the commander of the 299th ShAD Colonel Krupsky:

      "For courage in air combat in the area of ​​Livny, an attack pilot who shot down two Me-109s, I am awarding the Order of the Red Banner. Give the name of the hero." ". In the evening of the same day, Lieutenant Kalchik was awarded the order.
      1. Alex 241
        +3
        19 January 2013 17: 06
        I note that the highest result among Soviet attack pilots in the fight against German fighters was shown twice by Hero of the Soviet Union Captain A.N. Efimov (future marshal and Air Force Commander), who fought during the war years, first in 198th, and then in the 62nd assault air regiments.

        Having completed 285 combat sorties during the war years, A.N. Efimov 58 times conducted air battles with German fighters, in which he officially shot down seven enemy aircraft. On his account, successful air battles alone against the four and against the eight of the Luftwaffe fighters.

        Piloting IL-2 to the brink of its capabilities, Efimov pulled German fighters to [328] low altitudes, where they could not take advantage of speed and maneuver, and achieved success.
        1. +3
          19 January 2013 22: 24
          By order of the People’s Commissar of Defense of August 19.08.41, 311, a new procedure was introduced for rewarding pilots for successful combat missions. [1000] In accordance with this order, attack aircraft pilots presented themselves with a military award and received a cash prize of 10 rubles for 5 successful combat sorties during the day or 10 sorties at night to destroy and destroy enemy targets. Over the next 2000 sorties, an attack pilot could be presented for a second government award and a cash prize of 2 rubles. The pilot of the IL-30 had the right to represent the Hero of the Soviet Union after 20 successful combat missions during the day or 1500 combat missions at night. In addition, attack aircraft pilots presented themselves to the government award and to a prize of 2 rubles for 5 personally shot down German planes. For 2 enemy aircraft shot down, the IL-2000 pilot presented himself with a second government award and a cash prize of 8 rubles. For 5000 personally shot down aircraft, an attack pilot presented himself with the title of Hero of the Soviet Union and a cash prize of 100 rubles. The commander and commissar of the assault squadron, which completed at least 2 successful sorties with the loss of no more than three Il-250s, presented themselves to the government award. The commander and commissar of the assault air regiment, which successfully completed at least 2 sorties with a loss of no more than six Il-XNUMXs, presented themselves to the orders of Lenin.
          From now on, all pilots who made emergency landings with the landing gear removed or other actions that incapacitated the materiel for no good reason should have been considered as deserters and brought to trial by the Military Tribunal ...
          1. +1
            20 January 2013 18: 53
            Throughout the long service of the Flying Tank, there have been cases of very unusual tasks that arose during its use, for example, as a ... transport aircraft. So in the summer of 1941, for the quick transfer of ground personnel, the command of the 671 ShAP ordered the placement of mechanics in ... chassis nacelles. Thanks to this, instead of one passenger being transported in the “trunk”, 5 (!) People flew on each Ile. As a transport in the winter of 1943, the Ilyas in 230 ShAD were also used to supply the landing force landed on the "Malaya Zemlya". Two containers with supplies, ammunition or sets of medicines were hung on bomb locks under the wings and dropped them almost at the front from a low height. Naturally, containers often broke.
            Repeatedly pilots landed behind the front line to rescue their downed comrades, although this did not always end as intended. In March 1943, a 503 ShAP escort fighter was shot down. Lieutenant Matonov. It so happened that the Germans shot the tire on his Ile with successful shots. as a result, the car lost mobility. Therefore, Lieutenant Demekhin decided to sit down, who then with incredible skill brought his IL from the marshy area onto solid ground and launched with three passengers on board under the very nose of the Germans.
            Undoubtedly one of the most unusual events took place in the 90th Guards. when the Il-2 crashed during an emergency landing, the pilot died, but the shooter survived! This was one of the few cases when the shooter survived "his" pilot during a critical situation. The armored fuselage usually protected the pilot from most dangers, providing him with the ability to safely break through walls or demolish trees (which, moreover, could then fall on the shooter in his rear cockpit), resulting in a 7: 1 ratio of dead shooters to pilots. Sometimes the truth was different. For example, another similar incident occurred on the Black Sea, when a heavily damaged IL-2 was forced to splash down. A shooter got out of the rear cockpit, but the “tank” quickly plunged his nose and buried his pilot locked in a cockpit with a jammed lamp. This was quite common, as the armor was warped due to shells, blocking the movable part of the cockpit lantern, which made the pilot helpless, since he could not break armored glass, or even steel armor. Partly because of this, a side-opening lantern was used on the IL-10.
    2. +1
      20 January 2013 17: 32
      nnz226
      I confirm. I read the memories of some fascist pilot. I remembered the episode - winter 41. Four BF 109 sequentially makes several visits to IL 2. BK at the end, IL - flies. One of the Messers dived at a dive and, as in the circumstances described by you, receives a side salvo in the tail. The plane explodes. The presenter thoughtfully declares - You can’t bite a hedgehog in the ass and commands - home. Like this. By the way, this three-shot Il was counted by all three - according to the photo machine guns they all got into it ....
  19. Edgar
    +2
    19 January 2013 17: 21
    This text is from the magazine "Aviakollektsiya" No. 5-2005.
    "The accumulated experience of combat use
    IL-2 along with the advantages revealed
    and significant design flaws
    the plane. Booking Efficiency
    proved insufficient for
    successful action in a strong
    anti-aircraft fire. Weakness of armor is possible
    would be compensated by maneuverability,
    reducing the likelihood of a plane crash,
    but horizontal and vertical
    speeds are rather bulky and heavy
    IL-2 is not allowed in the necessary
    least when changing anti-aircraft maneuver
    . The bomb load of the plane was
    small. At the same time, IL-2, on the one hand
    was unable to carry large bombs
    caliber needed for example
    to defeat fortifications; with another -
    real load decreased sharply
    when using small ammunition,
    most effective when striking
    area targets at the forefront. To that
    a small radius should be added
    the actions of IL-2 and the lack of modern
    air navigation facilities.
    Already a year after the start of the Great
    World War II articulated
    requirements for a promising attack aircraft.
    The new plane was supposed to possess
    powerful weapons, high
    combat survivability, maneuverability,
    a wide range of speeds at
    good handling on small and
    medium altitude, excellent visibility
    (to search for goals and save visual
    contact with them when doing
    maneuver) and high rate of climb
    (to build anti-aircraft
    maneuver mainly in
    vertical plane) and so on. D.
    1. Alex 241
      0
      19 January 2013 18: 51
      Post-war attack aircraft IL-102
      1. Alex 241
        +1
        19 January 2013 18: 52
        .................................................. ..............................
        ................
  20. 0
    20 January 2013 00: 12
    This Il-2MZ at the end of the war served in the Polish 3rd assault regiment of the 1st mixed air corps, one of the first non-Soviet units, equipped attack aircraft.

    Aircraft and military equipment in general are weapons, not equipment by the author. The pilot’s outfit is a helmet, winter jumpsuit, high fur boots, etc.
    And so a good article put a plus.
  21. peaker
    +1
    20 January 2013 02: 47
    This plane bore the brunt of the war in the air, I am silent about the pilots, not to talk about them.
  22. 0
    20 January 2013 12: 36
    castle,
    IN MY HUMBLE OPINION
  23. 0
    20 January 2013 15: 27
    It is a pity that the Su-8 was not accepted into service ...., now it really would be a cool nibbler.
  24. +2
    20 January 2013 16: 35
    I would like to put a plus for the article about the LEGEND of our aviation, but ... Before writing about this AIRPLANE, by the way, one Western company at the end of the 90th began its existence with the fact that it released a model of this legendary AIRPLANE, it would be necessary at least not to read a lot about it About his birth, when S.V. Ilyushin wrote a letter stating that he was ready to create a BSh, P.O Sukhoi's airplane, created under the competition for the development of the Ivanov multipurpose aircraft, has already flown. I will not dwell on all the shortcomings of this article. , just dwell on those that cut in the eyes. On June 30.06.1941, 249, 18 aircraft of this type were accepted by the military acceptance. All aircraft produced by aircraft number 20.06.1941 in Voronezh. According to the Red Army Air Force headquarters as of 18/2.5/61. the troops received 8 IL-74 machines-10 SHAP -SAD PribOVO, 5-66SHAP 15 SAD ZAPOVO, 100-XNUMXSHAP XNUMXSAD KOVO. But here there are some discrepancies. But back to the article. I'm certainly not a big connoisseur of aviation, but I affirm XNUMX% that none of the aircraft was equipped with SPARKI UBT. Again, the two-seater version was developed by the Ilyushin Design Bureau not at their own peril and risk, but at the request of the consumer. Moreover, the Air Force demanded this from the beginning of serial production, especially after the start of the war. Simply, for general development, read the memoirs of the same Emelianenko, or even better, A. N. Efimov. Well, or the monograph on this AIRPLANE by the authors V. Perov, O. Rastrenin. Then there will certainly be no hydraulic flaps. I agree with the phrase hydraulic jack, or flaps with a hydraulic drive ... Yes, and the retracted taillight was not the usual decision of the designer, but the fact that the arrows, fearing that they were wounded, they would not be able to throw the BACK part of the lantern to the side, they removed it. The shelling sector did not change from this. Moreover, at different factories this section is the outfit had different contours. Yes, and the machine guns of the table IN THE WING, and not ON THE WING. Therefore, before writing about the LEGEND, please read at least what was written before you. After all, this is the LEGEND of our aviation, PRIDE of our people. And you about him as about amerikosovskiy Thunderbolt, by the way, created by a native of Russia.
  25. +1
    20 January 2013 22: 45
    Losses of IL-2 decreased to acceptable after practicing combat use. Attack from the circle, a fighter cover - all these techniques were practiced with their own blood. It is a pity that these points are not reflected in the article.
  26. +1
    21 January 2013 04: 08

    In 1943, 1468 Il-2s were lost from German ZA fire, and 1944 aircraft of this type were lost in 1859, In the first months of 1945, 1048 attack aircraft were lost from fire. Losses from fighter fire were accompanied by a gradual decrease. In 1943, 1090 were lost from fighter fire, in 1944 -882 vehicles, in 1945 only 369. Total losses in 1943 were 3515, in 1944 3344, in 1945-1691 IL-2. Combat losses of attack pilots for the entire period of hostilities amounted to 7837 people, which is 28,4% of the total loss of flight personnel of the Air Force of the Red Army.
    Drabkin never found an assertion that the shooters on the Il-2 were penalties. the memories of other pilots, and not only attack aircraft.
    1. +1
      21 January 2013 10: 34
      Another significant figure: only three thousand Il-2 attack aircraft reached the end of the war, out of 36 thousand produced. The aircraft was very actively used, often with poor road communications completely replacing artillery, so many silts were written off due to wear or impossibility of restoration.
      I also remember reading that the German prisoners were already in our rear, when IL-2 passed overhead on a shaver, they fell reflexively to the ground looking for shelter. As one attack aircraft writes in Drabkin: you can rest assured, my hands are up to the elbow in blood.
  27. 0
    21 January 2013 13: 20
    Not a lot of statistics. On 10.05.1945, the Red Army Air Force counted 3075 Il-2 and Il-2U. 450 of them are not combat ready, i.e. they were at different stages of repair. As well as 214 Il-2KR (17 not b / G ) Also, there were 197 Il-2s in the Navy Air Force. In total, 34943 Il-2 attack aircraft and 1211 Il-2Us were fired during the war years.
    Combat losses for the entire war amounted to 10759 Il-2 in the Red Army Air Force and 807 in the Navy Air Force. About 30% of the total number of aircraft lost. Moreover, somewhere around 10% of the IL-2 that received damage were either written off or sent to repair bodies. The rest were restored, on their own, or PARM.
  28. 0
    24 January 2013 07: 58
    Interestingly, what was the cost of 38 for IL and SU?
    1. 0
      29 January 2013 01: 46
      Internet what issues?
  29. 0
    29 January 2013 01: 42
    The attack aircraft is not bad. But everything is good in comparison. What analogues did other countries have? What are their pros and cons? Yes, they didn’t have to fight, but we had to. But this is lyrics.