Western expert: an officer from the First World War, looking at the battles in Ukraine, would not have thought that more than a century had passed

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Western expert: an officer from the First World War, looking at the battles in Ukraine, would not have thought that more than a century had passed

The expert of the military-analytical publication 19FortyFive, Robert Farley, decided to sum up the preliminary results and draw some conclusions from the Ukrainian military campaign. The author began a series of publications consisting of three parts, in which, as he said in the preamble, "he will try to draw some lessons from the conduct of the Russian-Ukrainian war at the moment." The first part analyzes the actions of the ground forces.

The author, covering the beginning of the special operation, reports that in the first weeks the initiative was completely on the side of the RF Armed Forces. Everything changed as soon as the Armed Forces of Ukraine began to receive Western weapons. There was a moment when experts even started talking that the active use of anti-tank systems by the Ukrainian infantry, in particular Javelin, against Russian armored vehicles generally ends the era of effective use tanks in land warfare.



These discussions stopped when it became obvious that without the use of the traditional armored vehicles-infantry-artillery triad, offensive operations would be at least difficult to carry out. It is not for nothing that Kyiv has been persistently demanding modern tanks and armored vehicles from its Western allies throughout the entire conflict.

The military campaigns of the 1990s and 2000s, mostly conducted by NATO forces in various parts of the world, seemed to show that in modern warfare the traditional role of artillery has faded into the background. Experts began to argue that aviation faster and more efficiently can do the work that was once left to the clumsy artillery gun.

But events in Ukraine have shown that artillery still successfully fulfills the role of the "god of war" in ground operations, if one army is opposed to another. Barreled guns and rocket launchers are used with high efficiency by both sides both in defense and offensive. In fact, since the First World War, with regard to the use of artillery, only its characteristics have changed - the range, the power of the projectiles and the accuracy of destruction.

Initially, Russia was counting on a short military operation against Ukraine, Farley believes. But the campaign has dragged on for a long time and, moreover, it may continue for a very long time. In such a situation, both sides were not quite ready in terms of the stock of weapons and ammunition for long-term hostilities.

Both Ukraine and Russia used ammunition at unacceptable rates at times

- notes the author.

Farley, operating on unverified information, claims that Russia had to turn to Belarus, North Korea and Iran for help in replenishing armaments. Ukraine, in turn, has almost completely switched to supply from the Western allies. And then it turned out that NATO did not have enough stocks to wage a high-intensity war, and now the countries of the alliance are struggling to meet the needs of Ukraine.

In short, each country must be prepared for the fact that its short war may drag on.

the expert concludes.

An important role in the Ukrainian conflict was shown by modern communication systems. Elon Musk's Starlink satellite network helped the Ukrainian military to keep in touch and keep abreast of the situation, which made it possible not only to build complex self-sustaining defensive structures, but also to conduct mobile offensive operations.

At the beginning of the special operation, the RF Armed Forces had serious problems with establishing both horizontal and vertical channels of communication. Various outdated systems could not communicate with each other, and the use of commercial technology (mobile phones) often made it possible to successfully strike Ukrainian artillery, the expert said. Later, the Russian command took a number of measures to solve these problems.

In general, the expert concludes, the Ukrainian conflict has shown that little has changed in modern large-scale confrontations on land since the First World War.

There is no doubt that the armies fighting in Ukraine today are more technologically advanced than the armies that fought on the Western Front in 1917. At the same time, there was little that an infantry or artillery captain of 1917 would find incomprehensible about the fighting in the Donbass.

Farley is sure.

According to the author, an officer of the First World War, looking at the battles in Ukraine, would not have thought that more than a century had passed.
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  1. +3
    30 November 2022 13: 44
    Western expert: an officer from the First World War, looking at the battles in Ukraine, would not have thought that more than a century had passed
    And what is wrong?
    A real war, between serious opponents, that's how it is ...
    1. +3
      30 November 2022 13: 47
      And the front line is moving in both directions, like in 1916-17.
    2. 0
      30 November 2022 14: 18
      And what is wrong?

      I beg your pardon, but how did they destroy the infrastructure in the depths of enemy territory at the beginning of the last century?
      The main thing is that the situation at the end of the First World War would not be repeated.
      And then again they will send a sealed wagon into the country.
      1. +2
        30 November 2022 15: 31
        Quote: Popandos
        And then again they will send a sealed wagon into the country.

        It would be nice to get such a car from Comrade Xi. Otherwise, this thieves' insanity will never end. IMHO
        1. -2
          30 November 2022 17: 07
          It would be nice to get such a car from Comrade Xi. Otherwise, this thieves' insanity will never end.

          Any reshuffle of power, in this situation, will not end in anything good.
          1. +1
            30 November 2022 17: 48
            Quote: Popandos
            Any reshuffle of power, in this situation, will not end in anything good.

            If everything is left as it is, everything will end even worse. (((Not a joke. ((( So the choice of the least evil.
          2. 0
            30 November 2022 19: 07
            What, nothing to say? And you think carefully. request
      2. +1
        30 November 2022 15: 41
        It reminds me that this does not mean that everything should be the same ... more than a century has passed, weapons have seriously changed, new / different ones have appeared.
        The question is ... who will be sent, why will they send? Here is the fact that "THE MAN WITH A GUN", having many questions, claims against those who started this "muddy", can become a serious argument in the process of changes in the state, it is possible / time to reason more carefully.
      3. +1
        1 December 2022 04: 29
        Quote: Popandos
        I beg your pardon, but how did they destroy the infrastructure in the depths of enemy territory at the beginning of the last century?

        Airships of Count Zeppelin.
        And it was a nightmare for England and France. The Russian army also sometimes got it from them.
        And yes - the caliber of the guns then was larger than the current one.
    3. +3
      30 November 2022 15: 26
      And what is wrong?

      It's like that . Only here the Germans at the beginning of the Patriotic War and air supremacy used the Junkers Yu-87 as artillery. Very successful, I must say. Up to the alignment of the situation in the sky by the 43rd year.
      Only without infantry it will still not be possible to advance. And ours "miscalculated" (this is mild), so no aviation with artillery will help. You can stand, attack - it will not work.
      1. +2
        30 November 2022 15: 46
        In every conflict there are nuances, differences from others. But, conflicts of this magnitude, in a similar theater of operations, will have some similarities ... more / less, this is from which side to look.
  2. +1
    30 November 2022 13: 44
    The victory will be won by the one who at the decisive moments will have more resources, human resources, weapons, telecommunications, logistics.
    1. -3
      30 November 2022 13: 46
      The victory will be won by the one who at the decisive moments will have more resources, human resources, weapons, telecommunications, logistics.
      Everyone can go home laughing
  3. +1
    30 November 2022 13: 45
    According to the author, an officer of the First World War, looking at the battles in Ukraine, would not have thought that more than a century had passed.
    It is directly alarming with what frequency this statement is heard, and about other conflicts, where, in fact, the parties are buried and cannot move, they do not say this. But there was the 38th parallel, the same Libya now ...
    1. +1
      30 November 2022 13: 51
      Rather, this "expert" means the massive work of artillery! And in general, he is right, even chemical attacks from ho..lov occur from time to time hi
  4. -1
    30 November 2022 13: 48
    Yes, they say UAVs and cruise missiles began to be used back in the 19th century lol
    1. -1
      30 November 2022 15: 52
      Then not UAVs, but Bumbarash were used for the same purposes.
  5. +4
    30 November 2022 13: 53
    nothing to do with sitting in the trenches of WWI, except for the trenches themselves. I already wrote but I repeat The war of a new type. The tactics have changed. No company zerg rushes or, God forbid, battalion groups. The heavily armed infantry advances. Small assault group of 4-5 people. Broniks, additional first-aid kits, if possible, and the presence of teploki and nightlights. Stormtroopers not because they run forward with a cry of "Hurrah!" - headlong. On the contrary, they advance cautiously, observing the possible deployment of enemy firing points. The task is to find their coordinates. Sometimes it only works when you get under fire yourself. And then, immediately retreat back as far as possible. If they are not connected by three hundredths, if the enemy did not set up a mortar cut-off, if they themselves did not fall under induced artillery or heavy. Fire is opened on the enemy from all types of heavy weapons. Arta, rocket launchers, mortars, birds, cliffs, agees. They try to suppress and destroy the identified, manifested points, destroy shelters and defensive structures. Stormtroopers wait and advance again. if the enemy is destroyed or retreated, they take a position. If not, the whole cycle repeats again. This is how the assault goes on in modern NWO.
    1. -1
      30 November 2022 14: 10
      The assault group tactic was invented by the Germans in 1917.
      Only, of course, they didn’t fool around with the first line, but went into the depths trying to get to the enemy’s artillery, in fact, they would also do it now, but where there should be an army corps, a brigade is fighting, there is no second echelon, and therefore if success is achieved there is nothing to develop it.
      1. -1
        30 November 2022 15: 57
        I'm saying nothing at all. In addition to the name. At least read what I wrote and compare with the tactics of the German assault groups. They invented armor there so that they could jump into other people's trenches and cut short there on their own, knocking out the enemy infantry. Armed accordingly for short hand-to-hand fights in tight trenches. the number is different. tactics, tasks, purpose. Only the name is the same. There is another task here. find out where the enemy is. Because it happens that no UAV can see it. And you can reveal it only by causing fire on yourself. But then do not rush forward, because there are most likely mines (and in WWI there were engineering barriers in the form of "thorns" and not PFMs) to reveal and pull out the wounded to retreat.
        1. +2
          30 November 2022 16: 21
          You understand that with the help of what you described, you can fight for 100 years without any result, it’s possible to kill the village from the ISIS, but you can’t fight the army, if there were a normal outfit of forces and means, the task would be put in depth.
          1. +2
            30 November 2022 17: 51
            you apparently do not understand. This tactic and technique is not a minus, it is a huge plus. I'll tell you more, in this way only very persistent and brave infantry and a well-coordinated unit devoid of birthmarks of "combat" and "statutory" units can fight. Will explain. In order to move forward over and over again in a small group, peeking out petals and pfmki under your feet, expecting machine guns from a hidden firing point to hit you from cover, you need to be very motivated, understand the combat mission, believe in yourself and your comrades who will not be abandoned in case what they pull out or cover up, you need to have a healthy amount of indifference. And losing comrades from time to time killed and wounded, re-form the group and again go to where exactly there is a hidden enemy who wants to kill you. This is not at all what a company would bring down on machine guns in a crowd and then roll back when faced with fire. Further. The procedure for aiming artillery and other fire support directly without long coordination with the higher command and headquarters should be worked out. there is no group for a company commander, a company commander, a commander with a map contacts the colonel, and he in the artillery battalion prepares a fire defeat according to the coordinates, and then they fulfill the application. No, it's all long and complicated and late. here, on a direct group, the coordinates are immediately transferred to the commander of the calculation. and the calculation works jewelry and quickly and immediately changes position because it unmasked itself and now the counter-battery will begin. here you need high skill and defeat from the second third shot. This is a complex and advanced tactic. And the proposal in large groups to break through from the rifle to the depths in such a war with an enemy who knows how to do this ... it’s like saying that the tactics of chains advancing in dashes are nonsense compared to battalion squares and salvo fire from the previous era.
  6. +3
    30 November 2022 14: 00
    Well, it is, if aviation cannot work because of air defense, trench warfare remains.
  7. +1
    30 November 2022 14: 05
    an officer of the First World War, looking at the battles in Ukraine, would not have thought that more than a century had passed.
    Not surprising, because in WW1, positional warfare was waged on a continuous front line, today in separate sectors and in both cases using small arms artillery and today additionally heavy equipment. The tactics of actions in defense and offensive practically remained the same with some additions of today (mobile and assault groups ...). The possibilities of reconnaissance and the use of technical means for this purpose have, of course, stepped far ahead. But, both then and today, the presence of a sufficient amount of weapons, ammunition and human resources plays an important role. An important role, of course, is played by combat training and l / s stamina.
  8. +2
    30 November 2022 14: 19
    According to the author, an officer of the First World War, looking at the battles in Ukraine, would not have thought that more than a century had passed.

    That's for sure, aviation works as "frequently" as it did during the First World War. Before the NMD, I thought that the level of combat effectiveness of the country's armed forces directly depends on the combat effectiveness of aviation .... but it turned out that our aviation is not very combat-ready ... combat operations are conducted only along the line of contact, without affecting supply lines and the transfer of troops. And missile attacks on the energy structure can only be considered as coercion to "peace."
  9. +3
    30 November 2022 14: 28
    He will be surprised .. and in the United States if there was a war everything would be the same .. and in any other country. Artillery and infantry gods of war. The rest is attached to them as insignificant.
  10. +4
    30 November 2022 14: 40
    There is no doubt that the armies fighting in Ukraine today are more technologically advanced than the armies that fought on the Western Front in 1917. At the same time, there was little that an infantry or artillery captain of 1917 would find incomprehensible about the fighting in the Donbass.

    I came across an article by one of the legendary commanders of the times of the Chechen companies, where he expressed his point of view on the modern war that is going on now.
    I will expose part of his opinion, if you like, I will continue.
    --" The favorite thing of any new generation is to refute the experience of the old. Like, everything old is outdated, and everything new is advanced. However, this is a common mistake of subjective perception and insufficient education. In fact, a lot of what was suddenly discovered today was discovered a long time ago. It's just that methods and tools have changed.In the 19th century, a balloon in the air made it possible to see the entire location of the enemy, in the 20th century, reconnaissance aircraft became one of the main reconnaissance tools, today UAVs excel in this area.But this is not a revolution in military affairs. new tools of warfare.Even during the first Chechen war, as part of the 45th Special Forces Regiment of the Airborne Forces, there was a detachment of the Pchela UAV, of Soviet production, by the way, and showed itself excellently! At the same time, know-how was born - the data transmitted by the "Bees" were tied to a target designation system and this made it possible, when a target was detected, immediately give its coordinates to the artillerymen. Does it remind you of anything from the current "know-how"? Only a quarter of a century earlier and on platforms of another generation. The squad did great! There was only one problem - the devices broke down, they were shot down, and their production went bankrupt and closed a long time ago. And the detachment ceased to exist when the last "Bee" was shot down. Therefore, it was impossible to scale this experience, or even save it then. But this is just an example...
    Another example is the creation of reconnaissance-strike complexes, when the data from the scouts immediately get to the artillerymen and the artillery immediately inflicts fire damage. Previously, all this was solved with the help of highly trained artillerymen, gunners, scouts and well-built communications. To increase the effectiveness of these "RUKs", high-precision munitions were developed, they were "tied" with attack aircraft, MLRS and operational-tactical missiles. Today, digitalization, correction with the help of UAVs, and space reconnaissance have come into this circuit. They made it possible to reduce the reaction time of artillery to the utmost. But before building full-fledged "HANDS" of the 80s, which worked to the full operational depth, it is still very far away.
    Today, the war "collapsed" at the beginning of the twentieth century, during the First World War, and everyone immediately started talking about some kind of crisis in the existing tactics and operational art. Like, we were not ready for the fact that the war would go into the trenches of the First World War. But, in fact, the reason for such a "collapse" into the past is completely different - a strategic mistake in planning the entire operation. An error in the calculation of the forces and means necessary for it. I do not know why it was made, but this mistake is still the weight on our feet, which does not allow us to turn the tide of the war.
    What fundamentally distinguished the Second World War from the First? The emergence of a universal tool that allowed leveling the know-how of the First World War - a well-equipped defense in depth, in which any blows sank. This know-how was mechanized strike formations - the most powerful artillery fists that pierced defenses in vulnerable areas of defense and introduced through these "holes" highly mobile formations of tanks and motorized infantry, literally "gnawed" the entire rear infrastructure of the enemy, turning his units and formations at the front into severed limbs. Environment - "cauldrons" became a symbol of the Second World War. And after it, we continued to develop the theory of deep offensive operations until the mid-90s, and achieved a lot here. "The Ogarkov Doctrine" still remains the pinnacle of the military theory of the offensive .... "

     
    1. -1
      30 November 2022 14: 54
      And the detachment ceased to exist when the last "Bee" was shot down. Therefore, it was impossible to scale this experience, or even save it then.

      And why didn't this "legendary commander" insist on the further production of these UAVs, but stuck his tongue out before writing his memoirs? And now, having become a deputy of the State Duma, he began to be clever, rather fantasize.
    2. +1
      30 November 2022 15: 36
      In 1995, 5 Pchela-1T vehicles were used in Chechnya, which completed 10 flights, including 8 combat ones. The total flight time of the vehicles was 7 hours 25 minutes. The maximum distance of the devices from the ground control station reached 55 km, the flight altitude was in the range from 600 to 2200 m. During the tests, two "Bees" were shot down by the fire of Chechen militants who managed to organize a dense barrage from small arms and anti-aircraft installations along the UAV flight route .
  11. +1
    30 November 2022 15: 03
    And what is there to doubt victory will be only for us, without a doubt.
  12. +2
    30 November 2022 15: 19
    Experts began to argue that aviation could do the job faster and more efficiently that was once left to clumsy artillery pieces.

    That's right. The only thing these experts, including this Farley, knew about war was that war was a recreational walk through strange places. And that the war consists in the fact that the planes flew in, bombed the wild tribes with bows and arrows, then the clean American soldiers came and burned all the survivors, still simmering in the smoking ruins. At the same time, they fought with one hand, and held selfie monopods with the other.
    Well, of course, it worked with Iraqis, Libyans and other Zulus. And another war - when the enemy of the same genetic code as you, is armed with the same powerful weapon and has the same saturated air defense - these unfortunate experts did not have to see.
    So their analytics do not indicate that the war is degrading, but that they have knowledge about a real war with a gulkin nose.
  13. +2
    30 November 2022 16: 59
    The military campaigns of the 1990s and 2000s, mostly conducted by NATO forces in various parts of the world, seemed to show that in modern warfare the traditional role of artillery has faded into the background. Experts began to argue that aircraft could do the job faster and more efficiently that was once left to clumsy artillery pieces.

    Well, yes, inflict MRAU on residential cities, destroying the NATO herd of masters by thousands of civilians ... If Russia had ironed MRAU Kyiv and Odessa, four times at the beginning of the operation, or now, then things could go faster. But it is not in our concepts and traditions to destroy peaceful cities with a defenseless population. hi
  14. +2
    30 November 2022 17: 19
    In the sense that the new Petliura still rules on a territory equal to the staff car?
    In general, was the "kspirt" in a coma for 22 years and did not notice that, for example, the United States began to lack precision-guided projectiles and missiles back in 2001 in Afghanistan? Moved to carpet bombing. "The war may drag on" - datisho, Morina?!
  15. 0
    30 November 2022 19: 52
    I remember Remarque, where he writes about a new fashion to go on the attack: grenades and a sharply honed infantry shoulder blade.
  16. 0
    30 November 2022 19: 59
    Tank designers from the 70s-80s - The tank protection developed by us will allow us to crush NATO adversaries in the raid on the English Channel, the engines of our tanks can be refueled at any gas station. Tank designers of the 20s - Our tank is an excellent sniper rifle with armor, in the desert it can hit a camel in the eye from 5 km, if there is no storm :)
  17. 0
    30 November 2022 22: 01
    an officer from the First World War, looking at the battles in Ukraine, would not have thought that more than a century had passed

    what kind of arimi is this and the war ...