Military Review

Battle of Rafiya. Lots of elephants and good old phalanxes

104
Battle of Rafiya. Lots of elephants and good old phalanxes

The so-called Syrian wars, which were waged between the two largest Hellenistic states of the East - the Seleucid Empire and Ptolemaic Egypt, are not very well known to the general public. But the battles that were played out during these wars were very significant and bloody.


Suffice it to say that in the Battle of Trasimene Lake (the famous Second Punic War), the 50th army of Hannibal was opposed by 25 Romans, and there was not a single elephant on both sides. And on the same day in the East near Raphia (Rafah, not far from Gaza), the armies of Seleucid Antiochus III and the Egyptian ruler Ptolemy IV converged. Antiochus sent 62 foot soldiers, 6 horsemen, and 102 elephants into battle. To meet them, Ptolemy moved 70 thousand infantry, 5 thousand horsemen and 73 elephants. As they say, feel the difference.

But everyone knows Hannibal, and who has heard of Antiochus III and Ptolemy IV?


Tetradrachm of Antiochus III


Tetradrachm of Ptolemy IV

Seleucids vs. Ptolemies


We have previously spoken of Ptolemaic Egypt and power of the Seleucids - the two largest fragments of the failed empire of Alexander the Great. Throughout the XNUMXrd century BC. e. these states fought wars with varying success, trying to take control of the lands of the Eastern Mediterranean. One of the disputed territories was Coele-Syria (literally - Hollow Syria).

Coele-Syria on the maps:



About Ptolemy IV, who will become one of the heroes of this article, Polybius wrote:

"His predecessors threatened the kings of Syria from land and from the sea, for they owned Coele-Syria and Cyprus."

There were six Syrian wars in total, but today we will talk about the Fourth of them (219-217 BC), during which one of the most significant and large-scale battles of Antiquity took place.

Ptolemy IV and Antiochus III


At that time, Ptolemaic Egypt had already passed the peak of its power and was declining. Strabo wrote about the monarchs of this country:

"All the kings after the third Ptolemy, spoiled by a life of luxury, managed state affairs worse than their predecessors."

At the end of the III century BC. e. Egypt was ruled by Ptolemy IV Philopator (Loving father).


Ptolemy IV, statue head, Archaeological Museum of Kos

But he was more like his grandfather - a lover of Greek literature, a patron of writers, architects and sculptors, under whom the Pharos lighthouse was built, the Torah was translated into Greek, large funds were allocated for the arrangement and maintenance of the Library of Alexandria and the Museon. But Ptolemy IV did not like to deal with state affairs, entrusting them to his favorites.

One of them was Sosibius, who held a high position under the father of this king, Ptolemy III Euergetes. The man, by the way, was clearly in his place, and Polybius calls him "a cunning and experienced old scoundrel." Since this historian has a negative attitude towards Sosibius, we can assume that this characteristic is rather complimentary. But other favorites of Ptolemy IV - Agathocles, his sister Agathoclea, their mother Enantha, were people of a completely different warehouse. Justin writes about them:

“He (Ptolemy IV) was captivated by the charms of the hetaera Agathoclea. Forgetting completely about the greatness of his rank and high position, he spent his nights in debauchery, and his days in feasts ...
The daily depraved intercourse of the king with her brother Agathocles, a dissolute obsequious handsome man, made her even more impudent. Agathoclea and Agathocles were joined by their mother Enantha, who took the king into her hands, completely seduced by the charms of both her children. Not content with power over the king, (they) seized power over the state ...
Agathocles, who was constantly with the king, ruled the state, and both women ordered the distribution of positions of tribunes, prefects and military commanders.

However, the power of the Ptolemies was still strong and could afford the imperial policy.

And in the state of the Seleucids, on the contrary, there have been positive developments. For heirs Seleucus I Nicator got a truly huge state.


Seleucid State

But by the time Antiochus III ascended the throne, his predecessors had already lost lands in India, Mesopotamia and Asia Minor. And in the last Third Syrian War, Egypt captured Celesyria and the territory to the north of it, including the large city of Seleucia Pieria (on the Orontes) - the first capital of the Seleucids. But now in 223 BC. e. an 18-year-old youth ascended the throne, who will enter historylike Antiochus the Great.


Antiochus III, marble bust, Louvre

In the end, he will lose the decisive battle with Rome, but until then he will have time to conquer Palestine, Phoenicia, Parthia and Bactria. Fatal for him will be an attempt to take possession of Greece as well. Before the start of the war with Egypt, Antiochus III had already defeated the troops of the rebellious brothers Solon and Alexander and forced the king of Atropatene (a historical region in northwestern Iran and southern Azerbaijan) to recognize his authority, but did not have time to deal with the rebellious governor of the Asia Minor provinces Achaeus.

Fourth Syrian War


In 219 BC. e. Antiochus III began hostilities against Egypt, occupying Seleucia. The Egyptian commander Theodotus of Aetolia, who learned that he had fallen out of favor with the king and his favorites, handed Antiochus over to Ptolemais and Tyre. However, Nicholas appointed in his place held Sidon, Arvad and Dor. In 218 BC. e. Antiochus continued the offensive, now Arvad, Trieres, Kalam, Philotera, Scythopolis and a number of other cities fell. The generals Keraya and Hippoloch crossed over to his side (the latter brought 400 soldiers with him).

Remaining in Phoenicia, Antiochus III entered into negotiations with Egypt. Sosibius, who negotiated on behalf of Ptolemy IV, used this time to train an army that included not only mercenaries from Greece, Crete, Thrace, Libya, and even Gaul, but also 20 native Egyptians - for the first time in the history of Ptolemaic Egypt. Until then give weapon the descendants of Ptolemy I Soter did not dare to fall into the hands of local residents.

Negotiations continued throughout 218, and it seemed to Antiochus that things were moving towards peace. He even disbanded part of his army when in the spring of 217 BC. e. learned that Ptolemy IV personally leads his troops to the borders of his state. The number of his troops was much larger than expected by the still young and insufficiently experienced Antiochus, who already believed in his victory in this war.

Egyptian troops made an impressive forced march, covering 180 km through the Sinai desert in just 5 days. The opposing armies met near the city of Rafiya (on the border of modern Israel and the Gaza Strip). In front of them stretched a long and narrow plain, which the Israeli historian E. Galili compared to "a long and narrow bottle neck."

Battle of Rafia


For 5 days, the enemy armies were inactive, not daring to attack each other. During this time, Antiochus organized an attack on Ptolemy's tent, but the Egyptian king was not in it at that moment.

Finally, on June 22, 217 BC. e. Ptolemy was the first to build an army for battle. As we remember, his army outnumbered the troops of Antiochus in the number of foot soldiers (70 thousand versus 62 thousand), but was inferior in the number of elephants (73 versus 102) and horsemen (5 thousand versus 6 thousand).

In the center, Ptolemy placed a phalanx, in which there were also Egyptians trained according to Macedonian models. Mercenaries and cavalrymen were located on the flanks, there were also elephants - 40 on the left and 33 on the right.

A phalanx also stood in the center of Antioch's position. On the left, it was covered by the eastern subjects of its states - Persians, Medes, Arabs, representatives of nomadic and mountain tribes, 2 thousand cavalrymen, on the right - Greek mercenaries and 4 thousand horsemen. The elephants were on the flanks: 42 on the left and 60 on the right.

The Ptolemaic phalanx was more numerous, but the phalanx of Antiochus that opposed it consisted of more experienced warriors.

Interestingly, if Antiochus was on the “royal” right flank of the army, then Ptolemy, contrary to tradition, was on the left. Thus, both kings were against each other. Thus began the Battle of Raphia, the largest battle in the Hellenistic world since the Battle of Ipsus (301 BC), where Seleucus I, Lysimachus and Cassander defeated the forces of Antigonus One-Eyed and his son Demetrius Polyorcetes.

The main source for the Battle of Raphia is the writings of the Greek historian Polybius. He claims that the battle began with fighting on the flanks, and the elephants were the first to attack.

Polybius, Strabo, Pliny the Elder, Appian and Philostratus wrote about the superiority of Indian elephants over African ones. However, in the second half of the XNUMXth century, their evidence was unexpectedly challenged by zoologists, who argued that African savannah elephants were not smaller, but even larger than Indian ones. Therefore, it has been suggested that Ptolemy's elephants were young (not mature) and poorly trained.

The former governor of Uganda, W. Gowers, put an end to this issue, who in the article “African Elephants and Ancient Authors” (1948) pointed out that there are also African forest elephants, which are smaller than savannahs, but are much easier to tame. Thus, at present, the evidence of Polybius and other ancient authors is again recognized as reliable.

So Polybius says:

“The warriors mounted on elephants fought valiantly from the towers; acting with saris at close range, they struck each other, but the animals fought even better, throwing themselves at each other with fierceness. The struggle of elephants takes place approximately in this way: having stuck their fangs into each other and grappling, they push with all their might, and each wants to keep his place until the strongest overcomes and takes the opponent's trunk aside. As soon as the victor succeeds in seizing the vanquished from the side, he wounds him with fangs, just as bulls do with horns.


Wherein:

“The Ptolemaic elephants were mostly afraid of battle, which is usually the case with Libyan elephants. The fact is that they cannot stand the smell and roar of Indian elephants, they are frightened, as I believe, by their growth and strength, and immediately run away from afar. That's what happened now."

As a result, according to Polybius, three elephants died in the army of Antiochus III and two more died of wounds, the army of Ptolemy IV lost 16 elephants killed, and "most of them were captured by the enemy." That is, the “battle of the elephants” ended in a convincing victory for the animals of the Seleucid army.

But the fate of the battle was decided elsewhere. The Israeli orientalist E. Galili wrote about this:

"Antiochus got the elephants, and Ptolemy the victory."

Let's go back to the battlefield of Raphia.

Antiochus, who was on the right flank, followed the elephants and sent his cavalrymen into battle, who overturned the Egyptian horsemen, and his Greek infantry began to push Ptolemy's mercenaries. However, the catastrophe did not happen, and parts of the Egyptian left flank, although retreating, did not flee.

The situation was reversed on the other flank, which was commanded from Egypt by the commander Echecrates. His cavalrymen (Egyptians and Libyans) put Antiochus' Syrian cavalry to flight, and Greek mercenaries defeated the Median and Arab foot soldiers.

Antiochus pursued the retreating warriors of Egypt, and Ptolemy IV at this time moved to his phalanx. Here, in the center, the fate of this battle was decided: the Ptolemaic phalanx overturned the phalanx of Antiochus.

The Seleucid army lost up to 11 thousand people killed, another 4 thousand were captured. The losses of the army of Ptolemy IV amounted to about two and a half thousand people.

Despite the defeat, for Antiochus the terms of the peace turned out to be quite acceptable. He left Coele-Syria, but retained the extremely important Seleucia on the Orontes and the surrounding lands. He then restored his power in Anatolia and began the conquest of Parthia and Bactria.

The reason for such indulgence of Ptolemy IV is called, on the one hand, the deplorable state of the treasury of Egypt, in which there simply was no money to pay for numerous mercenaries, and on the other hand, the desire of this king to return to his former carefree life as soon as possible.

However, Ptolemy IV began to have problems with the demobilized Egyptians, who were convinced that they could well fight against professional soldiers and began to demand equal rights with the Macedonians and Greeks. This led to an uprising and even an attempt to establish an Egyptian state in the south of the country.

Polybius writes:

“Having armed the Egyptians for the war with Antiochus, the king had excellent orders regarding the present, but he made a mistake in the future. The Egyptians were proud of the victory at Raphia and did not at all want to obey the authorities. Considering themselves strong enough to fight, they looked only for a person fit for leadership, and after a short time they found one.

The grandson of the winner at Raphia, Ptolemy VI, will be captured by his uncle, Seleucid Antiochus IV, the country will be divided into two parts, and only the intervention of Rome saved the Ptolemaic dynasty then. The rulers of Egypt paid for this assistance with a partial loss of sovereignty and the actual recognition of themselves as vassals of Rome.

Over the years, this dependence only intensified, and an attempt at revenge, undertaken by Cleopatra, who relied first on Caesar, and then on Mark Antony, ended in defeat and the transformation of Egypt into a Roman province.
Author:
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  1. Proxima
    Proxima 26 November 2022 06: 19
    +4
    Whenever I read articles of this kind as a child, I always naively assumed, in relation to this material, it would sound like this, if these gigantic armies united and went together to Rome, then what would be left of it? But, here logistics and command unity in the army, which were already on the side of Rome, come to the fore
    1. forty-eighth
      forty-eighth 26 November 2022 06: 51
      +8
      During the wars of the Diadochi, there was nothing to profit from in Rome.
      The Gauls went to Rome, because the Gauls didn’t really have anywhere else to go, and Hannibal - out of personal hostility.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 26 November 2022 07: 01
        +7
        During the wars of the Diadochi, there was nothing to profit from in Rome.
        That's right. "Fledged", muscles, filled with strength, began to rob others, robbed everyone, and then other robbers ripened ... smile They began to rob, looted by Rome ..
        1. ArchiPhil
          ArchiPhil 26 November 2022 07: 10
          +10
          Quote: parusnik
          They began to rob, looted by Rome ..

          And then the United States arose and the whole world realized that the Romans were just children. bully
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 26 November 2022 07: 28
            +9
            and the whole world realized that the Romans were just children.
            And not all, and did not understand smile
            1. ArchiPhil
              ArchiPhil 26 November 2022 09: 28
              +3
              Quote: parusnik
              And not all

              A slight exaggeration. laughing
              Quote: parusnik
              and did not understand

              *Then we go to you.* bully
              1. parusnik
                parusnik 26 November 2022 09: 43
                +5
                Wow! Will you be hoisting the banner of Victory over the White House in Washington?! Congratulations! High honor! laughing
                1. ArchiPhil
                  ArchiPhil 26 November 2022 10: 09
                  +4
                  Quote: parusnik
                  Wow! Will you be hoisting the banner of Victory over the White House in Washington?! Congratulations! High honor!

                  I think that there was a slight misunderstanding. And since the whole world is a * zone of American interests * then?
                  Unfortunately, I probably didn't express my thoughts clearly. recourse
                  1. parusnik
                    parusnik 26 November 2022 10: 20
                    +3
                    Probably, really, there was no understanding drinks hi
        2. bk0010
          bk0010 26 November 2022 12: 13
          +2
          Quote: parusnik
          During the wars of the Diadochi, there was nothing to profit from in Rome.
          That's right. "Fledged", muscles, filled with strength, began to rob others, robbed everyone, and then other robbers ripened ... smile They began to rob, looted by Rome ..
          What kind of robbers are ripe? Rome was destroyed by Rome itself, as a result of centuries of civil wars and an administrative apparatus that turned into a malignant tumor that sucked resources out of the country. The barbarians simply robbed the corpse of the empire.
          1. Illanatol
            Illanatol 27 November 2022 09: 14
            +1
            Quote: bk0010
            What kind of robbers are ripe? Rome was destroyed by Rome itself, as a result of centuries of civil wars and an administrative apparatus that turned into a malignant tumor that sucked resources out of the country.


            The so-called barbarians. Which began to put more and more pressure on the Roman provinces. I had to leave Britain, Gaul ... in the East, the Romans began to suffer defeats from the Persians, to surrender their positions in Asia.
            The tax burden on the central regions began to grow. The Romans themselves stopped breeding, the demography became disgusting. In the legions - more and more of those whom it was difficult to call the Romans.
            Problems with logistics and management led to the division of the empire into four parts. Well, the result is known.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 November 2022 09: 24
        +6
        Hello!
        Quote: forty-eighth
        During the wars of the Diadochi, there was nothing to profit from in Rome. .

        A rather controversial statement. The wars of the Diadochi lasted two centuries. So if at the beginning of their tidbit of the pie in the Apennines was Great Greece, then by the second Punic - this union of policies was part of the Roman Republic. Pyrrhus of Epirus and Heron of Syracuse failed in their "Marsom plans". Barki (Hannibal, his brothers and father) actually only resisted the growing power of Rome. Considering the indemnities from Carthage, it was fashionable to take in Rome a lot. True, they succeeded - this is only for the barbarians and after almost 600 years!
        1. Fat
          Fat 26 November 2022 11: 27
          +5
          hi Hello Vladislav. It seems to me that a large-scale "there is something to take" in Rome emerges only after Octavian Augustus, who "I accepted Rome as brick, and leave it as marble."
          The idea to rob this city on three hills, before it eclipsed Ptolemaic Alexandria, could only be born in completely barbarian heads ... "It was a curiosity, they blinded their eyesight,
          who did not see anything of this kind "(c) As for Pyrrhus and Hiero, they also defended themselves rather than performed their own" actions caused by expansionist aspirations " smile
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 November 2022 11: 48
            +4
            Borisych disagrees. The wealth of Rome began after the victory in the first Punic War. After the defeat of Magna Graecia and the capture of Sicily, Rome was the largest and richest city in the Apennine Peninsula.
            1. Fat
              Fat 26 November 2022 20: 49
              +4
              Wealth is very relative. 3200 talent contributions for 10 years. How much is that a lot. Talent - 26,2 kg of silver, like a lot.
              What are the prices?
              Athens budget (annual): 1000-2000 talents
              Construction of the Parthenon: 469 talents
              Siege an enemy city during the year: 1000-2000 talents
              Maintenance of cavalry (about 800 horsemen): 40 talents per year
              Maintenance of trireme with crew: 7 talents per year
              Building a trireme: 5 talents... They write on Wiki, referring to:
              1 - Butten A.-M. classical greece
              2 - Demosthenes About symmoria.
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2022 06: 49
                +3
                Borisych you answered your own question. You have money, then we go to you. An indicative example of the invasion of the Mongols, even more contrasting is the description of the Vandal invasion of Italy. I don’t remember which of the historians described how the “barbarians” watered their horses from silver fonts.
                Although I think the first murder of one's own kind at the dawn of mankind was because of food, the second - a stone ax, the third - a woman.
                I note that in the advanced policies of the ancient Mediterranean, slaves were cheap and the uprisings of the latter were quite rare. That is, most of the latter were satisfied, a hundred of them are “exploited”. By the way, at the top of the evolutionary chain were countries with a developed social system of elevators! Perhaps with the exception of only Sparta !!! Although her Illoths also fought in the ranks of the Spartans. Like the Athenian slaves in the battle of Marathon.
                The freedmen of Rome commanded fleets, estates, and even provinces.
                Everything is relative.
                1. Fat
                  Fat 27 November 2022 11: 13
                  +1
                  hi Good morning. There must have been some misunderstanding... I was leaning towards the fact that 320 talents a year and the resources of Sicily for Rome are not enough to become a prime target for robbers, when as a "taxable base" (simmoria) of Athens alone, for example, even a hundred years before the first Punic, it was close to 6000 talents. In general, Hellas is a much fatter piece... request
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 November 2022 12: 38
                    +3
                    Quote: Thick
                    hi Good morning. There must have been some misunderstanding... I was leaning towards the fact that 320 talents a year and the resources of Sicily for Rome are not enough to become a prime target for robbers, when as a "taxable base" (simmoria) of Athens alone, for example, even a hundred years before the first Punic, it was close to 6000 talents. In general, Hellas is a much fatter piece... request

                    Egypt and Syria were no less juicy pies, especially after the campaigns of Alexander the Great ..
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Cartalon
      Cartalon 26 November 2022 08: 05
      +4
      After reviewing the Seleucid army, Antiochus asked Hannibal: Is this enough for the Romans? Enough, enough, although they are very greedy. The Punic answered.
    3. Romanovski
      Romanovski 29 November 2022 19: 34
      0
      https://armeniansite.ru/istoriya-armenii/armeniya-chast-imperii-akhemenidov.html
    4. Romanovski
      Romanovski 4 January 2023 19: 58
      0
      Seleucid Empire

      Hellenism also penetrated into those countries where the foot of the Greek-Macedonian conquerors practically did not set foot. One of these countries was Armenia. A small detachment sent to the north-west of the country was destroyed. It is known that the advance of the Macedonian army was accompanied by the foundation of cities, which, in addition to their economic function, were called upon to become strongholds of the new rulers.

      With regard to Armenia, such facts are not attested. During the first decades of the Macedonian conquest, Armenia remained independent. Meanwhile, throughout the vast territory of the power of Alexander the Great, there was a constant redistribution of forces - after the death of Alexander, who died in 323 BC, his generals (diadochi) entered into a desperate struggle to assert their own power.

      One of them, Antigonus, sought to create an empire in Asia Minor, but at the Battle of Ipsus (301 BC) he was defeated and killed. After this event, the position of another commander, Seleucus I, the founder of the largest power in the east, with its capital in Antioch on the Orontes, was significantly strengthened. During the III century. BC. Seleucus and his descendants sought to take possession of Armenia, but to no avail. Here the Orontid kingdom was revived, headed by Oront-Ervand, a former satrap who fought in the army of Darius III at the Battle of Gaugamela (331 BC).

      The backbone of the Yervandids was the basin of Lake Van and the Ayrarat region in the central part of the country. At the same time, the division into Armenia Minor (to the west of the Euphrates River, part of the former 13th satrapy of the Achaemenids) and Great Armenia (to the east of this river) has long been revealed. At the end of the IV century. BC. the rest of the 13th satrapy, Tsopk (Sofena), stood out as an independent region under the rule of local kings. In the second half of the III century. BC.

      Sophene was for some time united with the neighboring country of Commagene. A branch of the same royal family, the Yervandakans, ruled here. The last Armenian king of the direct line was the king of Greater Armenia, Oront-Yervand. The Seleucid sovereign Antiochus III deprived him of power, and the executor of his will was one of his commanders of Armenian origin - Artashes (Artaxias), the future king of Great Armenia.

      The war between Artashes and Yervand ended with the death of the latter. Such was the fate of King Sophena Xerxes, who was poisoned by his wife, the sister of Antiochus III. An ally of Artashes, an Armenian Zarekh (Zariadr), was appointed to rule here. This happened at the very end of the XNUMXrd century. BC. Approximately the same thing happened with Lesser Armenia and Commagene.

      The Macedonian conquest and the subsequent formation of the Hellenistic states created the conditions for the first meeting of the two worlds, the East and the West, unprecedented in scale. Within the chronological limits of Hellenism, a second link between East and West also took place, this time in the form of Rome.
  2. vladcub
    vladcub 26 November 2022 08: 47
    +2
    Comrades, it seems that Astra was going to zagry, everyone who will put Valery and V. O together?
    In principle, I agree with her: "sometimes empty, sometimes thick" so it turns out?
    1. ArchiPhil
      ArchiPhil 26 November 2022 09: 31
      +4
      Quote: vladcub
      "sometimes empty, sometimes thick" so it turns out?

      There is a right to choose. And that's good.
      Quote: vladcub
      Valeria and V. About together?

      Today, another good article was published on VO. About Moscow lanes. Do you think this is bad? belay
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 27 November 2022 07: 30
        0
        Did not see. Probably in Opinion? Need to search
  3. Korsar4
    Korsar4 26 November 2022 09: 50
    +5
    Thank you, Valery!

    Still, I think it's not the size of the elephants that matters, but the art of using them.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 November 2022 11: 56
      +3
      Quote: Korsar4
      Thank you, Valery!

      Still, I think it's not the size of the elephants that matters, but the art of using them.

      Well, if mother nature rested on her talent, then we have to measure ourselves with elephants!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 26 November 2022 12: 38
        +3
        When compared with Alexander the Great - on whom did not rest. Caesar was expected.

        However, the realization of talents depends on the circumstances.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 November 2022 13: 32
          +6
          Seriously, Guy Blitz Caesar is the most famous, but not the most talented Roman commander.
          Here it is necessary to give a positive assessment of the Roman system of government, which allowed talented people to advance to the top.
          A vivid example of the reverse situation is the second Panic War, when the Barca family, and not Carthage, is at war with Rome! No wonder the last one was "destroyed"!!!
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 26 November 2022 15: 40
            +3
            Конечно.

            As Viyon pointed out,
            Whom will the rumor exalt,
            Everyone will remember that after that.
  4. north 2
    north 2 26 November 2022 10: 01
    +5
    a filthy thing is marriage between cousins ​​and cousins, and a completely disgusting thing is marriage between brothers and sisters, between mother and son, father and daughter. The second case is more characteristic of the Ptolemaic dynasty than the Seleqids, although the Ptolemies did not even think then that this leads to the degeneration of offspring. Say , the purity of the blood of the dynasty was preserved in this way .
    But this is not the "amateur activity" of the Ptolemies. They were descendants of the Greeks and Macedonians, and through Alexander the Great, they considered themselves descendants of the ancient Greek God Zeus. Remarkably, the ancient Greek Gods, like their ancient Egyptian "colleagues", did not consider incest to be something reprehensible for themselves. Among the ancient Greek gods, this was a common thing, which is why the Ptolemaic dynasty introduced this practice when they became the rulers of Egypt. And in the article mentioned Ptolemy IV was no exception. Not to mention Ptolemy XII or Cleopatra herself.
    However, incest, even under the justification as a tradition of the ancient Gods and concern for the purity of the blood of hereditary offspring, in the short term leads to the degeneration of the offspring, and immediately leads to debauchery. Ptolemy IV was no exception and he needed managers of debauchery and Agathocles, his sister Agathoclea and their mother became these managers.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 26 November 2022 10: 07
      +5
      Yes. We even instinctively - rejection causes.

      And this, in a broad sense, is a trap for the nobility, if you do not allow misalliances, and trips to the side.
      1. Fat
        Fat 26 November 2022 13: 00
        +4
        Quote: Korsar4
        And this, in a broad sense, is a trap for the nobility, if you do not allow misalliances, and trips to the side.

        Obviously, all "pedigree" to a sufficient extent - the victims of inbreeding. smile
        hi Greetings, Sergey.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 26 November 2022 15: 41
          +3
          Greetings, Andrew!

          But even Leo Tolstoy said that peasant women did not allow degeneration.
    2. Fat
      Fat 26 November 2022 11: 51
      +3
      hi
      Quote: north 2
      But this is not the "amateur activity" of the Ptolemies. They were descendants of the Greeks and Macedonians, and through Alexander the Great, they considered themselves descendants of the ancient Greek God Zeus

      EMNIP each associate - the heir of Alexander had his own divine patron ancestor. The Ptolemies have Dionysus, whom, according to one version, Zeus personally endured in his own thigh ...
      It is extremely difficult to keep the "divine origin" pure, hence the Egyptian pharaonic incest and the late Ptolemaic ...
      It is interesting that Ptolemy 12, who is Avletes, illegitimate (Notes) - later New Dionysus (Neos Dionysus) ...
  5. lisikat2
    lisikat2 26 November 2022 10: 18
    -1
    All good health. Valery, I recognized you from the title illustration, which means that you are a recognizable author.
    I'll tell the truth: I have elephants and Antiochus, and Antiochus 3 was beautiful, of little interest
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 26 November 2022 12: 40
      +7
      Let's go to the circus, best of all.
      ...There are elephants. The elephant is another matter. Elephants are useful animals.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 November 2022 13: 39
        +5
        Quote: Korsar4
        Let's go to the circus, best of all.
        ...There are elephants. The elephant is another matter. Elephants are useful animals.

        Ad in the paper. I am changing an elephant in the Moscow zoo for 50 deer in the tundra!
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 26 November 2022 15: 48
          +3
          The desire to change places manifests itself in every way.
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 26 November 2022 17: 42
          +5
          I am changing an elephant in the Moscow zoo for 50 deer in the tundra!
          A hint at the current Moscow mayor S. Sobyanin (party nickname - reindeer breeder)?
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 26 November 2022 14: 29
        +6
        . Elephants are useful animals.


        And soulful... yes

        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 26 November 2022 15: 49
          +3
          A big being should not be good-natured.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 26 November 2022 15: 57
            +3
            This is understandable, for a day you will drag logs and have no strength left for anything else. smile

            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 26 November 2022 16: 16
              +3
              A wonderful example of occupational therapy and forest transport at the same time.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 26 November 2022 16: 45
                +3
                God save! As I remember this "occupational therapy" in the army years with its "from the fence to lunch" and "take more, throw more", so immediately the hand involuntarily reaches for the refrigerator for a bottle. laughing
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 26 November 2022 16: 57
                  +4
                  Correctly. Any kitchen is a magical place. And the refrigerator is the center of the universe.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 26 November 2022 17: 42
                    +4
                    I took it and sent it to myself foolishly. wassat

                    Answer to you:
                    As old as the world of a soldier's commandment: "Away from the authorities, closer to the kitchen."
                    soldier
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 26 November 2022 17: 47
                      +4
                      Yeah. Absorbed instantly. Applies universally.
                      Any cat will confirm.
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 26 November 2022 18: 03
                        +4
                        Any cat will confirm.


                        I confirm !!! fellow

                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 26 November 2022 18: 06
                        +3
                        The dog is biting
                        Only from the life of a dog.
                        Only from life, from the life of a dog
                        The dog is biting.
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 26 November 2022 18: 10
                        +3
                        This is for Anton, and I have a cat. smile

                        site administration is not responsible
                        Alas... request
                      4. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 26 November 2022 19: 13
                        +3
                        It's universal. It's just that everyone's strategy is different.
                      5. Catfish
                        Catfish 26 November 2022 19: 23
                        +3
                        A lot depends on the application object too.
                      6. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 26 November 2022 19: 46
                        +2
                        Everyone is attached to the bowl. Not everyone gets it easily.
                      7. Catfish
                        Catfish 26 November 2022 19: 58
                        +2
                        Yes, our Lucky wandered for a long time, but now it's like cheese in butter. smile
                      8. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 26 November 2022 20: 18
                        +2
                        In contrast, you begin to appreciate a lot.
                      9. Catfish
                        Catfish 26 November 2022 20: 51
                        +2
                        When dealing with people in particular.
                      10. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 26 November 2022 21: 47
                        +2
                        Of course. We pass everything through ourselves,
                      11. Catfish
                        Catfish 26 November 2022 22: 07
                        +2
                        And this is not coffee, you can get very poisoned.
                      12. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 26 November 2022 22: 27
                        +2
                        Can. A person is sometimes remarkably resilient, and at other times just as vulnerable.

                        And yet, where is his button? ..
                      13. Catfish
                        Catfish 26 November 2022 22: 58
                        +2
                        And yet, where is his button? ..


                        Where is it from? Seems very familiar.

                        It's amazing how a person survived at all with his kind, although in my life I came across much more good people than bad ones, or I'm just idealizing, I always want to think better.
                      14. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 27 November 2022 06: 02
                        +3
                        "The Adventures of Electronics".

                        The people are really nice. It’s just that some people have a “housing problem” or something like that.
                      15. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 November 2022 14: 22
                        +3
                        Yes, with the "housing issue" many problems are simply eternal. request
                      16. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 27 November 2022 15: 11
                        +2
                        You can't live without a roof over your head. And many need comfort.
                      17. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 November 2022 15: 16
                        +2
                        You can't live without a roof ..........


                        Yes, no roof wink , in both senses, it is very difficult to live life in our country. laughing
                      18. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 27 November 2022 16: 41
                        +2
                        Tell our aunt
                        We are orphans
                        We have a hut without a roof,
                        And mice gnawed through the floor
                        And the wind blows through the cracks
                        And we ate bread a long time ago ...
                      19. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 November 2022 16: 55
                        +3
                        “Who will answer me what kind of house this is?
                        Why in darkness like a plague barrack?
                        The light of the lamps went out, the air poured out,
                        Ali forgot how to live with you? "
                      20. Fat
                        Fat 27 November 2022 18: 18
                        +2

                        Miserable pennies are groaning on the accounts:
                        Buying an umbrella and firewood made a dent
                        And the pink hood made of bumazey
                        Puts down a bent bald head in sweat.
                        A siskin is whistling overhead
                        (Although the bird of God did not eat in the morning),
                        On a saucer a lonely saffron milk is sour,
                        But the vodka was drunk to a drop yesterday.
                        ...
                        Eyeless sister in a shabby katsaveika
                        Rapes a cold piano
                        And behind the wall is a seamstress
                        Sings a romance: "Understand my sadness"
                        How not to understand? Cockroaches in the dining room
                        Leaving the stale bread, we thought a little,
                        In the buffet glasses are rattling sympathetically,
                        And the dampness drips with tears from the ceiling.
                      21. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 November 2022 18: 49
                        +3
                        From such verses it is just right to shoot yourself, well, you gave it away. laughing
                      22. Fat
                        Fat 27 November 2022 19: 15
                        +3
                        It is also good that the most "heartbreaking" of the rhyme "Settings" was prudently reduced wassat
                      23. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 November 2022 19: 50
                        +2
                        the most "heartbreaking" of the rhyme "Settings" was prudently reduced wassat


                        Well, thank God! belay
                      24. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 27 November 2022 19: 18
                        +2
                        On the edge of the edge of the earth where the sky is clear
                        It seems like it even goes beyond the cordon,
                        There was a terrible building on the mountain,
                        From a distance, reminiscent of the UN.

                        Everything sparkles like lightning -
                        The beauty! But only here
                        In this building the queen
                        Lives in captivity.
                      25. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 November 2022 19: 52
                        +1
                        Serpent Gorynych soared up the tree, well, swing it:
                        “Bring out, Robber, girls - let them show something!
                        Let the goblin dance and sing for us!
                        Otherwise, I, your mother, will rot everyone!
                        Scary, already terrible!
                      26. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 27 November 2022 20: 57
                        +1
                        If you go on foot across the stream to the fork,
                        then strengthen the hair at the back of the head with a comb.
                        Throw away gunpowder and shot, forget forest fears.
                        Move on, it's a dream. Predators are not evil.

                        Silence will not fail, twilight will not deceive.
                        A hut looks out of the darkness. Fear will be pushed back.
                        Equestrian there - no way. Another thing is walking.
                        This is yours, this is where the miracles and the goblin are.
                      27. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 November 2022 21: 55
                        +2
                        “No urine, no strength! —
                        The goblin somehow didn’t finish,
                        He beat his Leshachikha and yelled:
                        - Give me a ruble, I'll beat it!
                        I am a getter or who ?!
                        If you don’t give it, then I’ll drink the chisel!”

                        “Didn’t I carry berries?! —
                        Again Leshy voted. —
                        And how many kil brought bark!
                        Ripped from afar -
                        All your fun for
                        Well you regret my ruble.
                        Oh you, aphid!
                      28. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 28 November 2022 04: 42
                        +2
                        Our conversation is both direct and rude -
                        We solve all problems with a gulp:
                        Where to get the missing ruble
                        And who then run for vodka.

                        You give me bread kvass in the morning.
                        What can you think of as an excuse?
                        We have different intellects -
                        Improve your education!
                      29. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 November 2022 14: 14
                        +2
                        - You, Zin, run into rudeness,
                        Everything, Zin, you strive to offend!
                        Here in a day you get so full of somersaults ...
                        You come home - there you sit!

                        Well, me, of course, Zin,
                        Pulling to the store all the time
                        And there - friends ... After all, I, Zin,
                        I do not drink alone!
                      30. Fat
                        Fat 28 November 2022 16: 19
                        +2

                        Ice in glasses is knocking faster and faster
                        Ninth scotch in one night
                        The floor is blown away from under your feet
                        And it's impossible to reach the door
                        Lay your head on my shoulder
                        There is nothing random in this world
                        This is a secret mission
                        But what is its meaning?
                        I forgot today, but once I knew
                        Did you read it somewhere
                        Did someone say
                        But under the influence of whiskey
                        It's so hard to concentrate
                        Ninth scotch in one night
                        No one can help us anymore
                        The walls are falling down and the ashes are flying around the room
                        And the Chinese look me intently in the eyes
                        And a tear suddenly flows down the yellow cheek
                        And I suddenly realize that the Chinese don't know either...
                      31. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 November 2022 16: 40
                        +2
                        And we are standing again, and there is water in the hold,
                        And you repeat again that you have to run,
                        And you repeat again that you need to go there,
                        Where it doesn't shake, it's dry, and there is something to breathe,
                        But even here there is a chance, let it be one in ten,
                        Let time here forward, not rushing - crawling,
                        And let it be harder to stay here than to leave,
                        I still believe that I will...

                        And yay, I stay
                        Where I want to be
                        And let me be a little afraid
                        But I, I stay
                        I stay to live!

                        You say there's enough evil here
                        And you're in a hurry to get out of here,
                        You say that bondage is sweet to me,
                        And you firmly believe in the truth of another way,
                        Run and swim, fly, no matter where,
                        If only to where we are not and were not,
                        You say everything here died a long time ago,
                        And there are too many strangers among us...

                        But I,
                        I'll stay,
                        Where I want to be
                        And let me be a little afraid
                        But I, I, I stay
                        I stay to live!
                        I stay!
                        I stay!

                        I'm used to it here, even though here I seem to be in the ranks,
                        I see everything, even though there are few lights here,
                        And on my feet, I'm here, standing so firmly
                        And in order to stand, I must hold on to the roots,
                        I'm used to it here, I'm not so lonely here,
                        Though sometimes, but here I see mine,
                        When the last bell starts ringing
                        I'll be here if I'm alive...

                        After all, I
                        I'll stay,
                        Where I want to be
                        And let me be a little afraid
                        But I, I stay
                        I stay to live!
                        I stay!
                        I stay!
                      32. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 28 November 2022 17: 47
                        +2
                        No, comrades, not in vain
                        There are rivers and seas
                        Because without water
                        And neither there nor there.
                      33. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 November 2022 18: 20
                        +1
                        How steamers see off
                        Not at all like trains
                        Slow sea water
                        Not that the rails are in two rows

                        No matter how you judge the unrest
                        After all, you are no longer on earth
                        No matter how long the separation is longer
                        When you sail on a ship

                        Water water round water
                        Water water noises water
                      34. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 28 November 2022 20: 06
                        +1
                        How nice to be a general
                        How nice to be a general
                        Better work
                        I to you, seniors,
                        I will not name!
                        I will be a general,
                        I will definitely become a general
                        If corporal,
                        If Corporal survive!
                      35. Fat
                        Fat 28 November 2022 20: 49
                        +2
                        Big cities
                        Empty trains
                        Neither shore nor bottom
                        Start all over again
                        Cold war
                        And time is like water
                        He didn't go crazy
                        You didn't know anything
                        Nobody writes to the Colonel
                        No one is waiting for the colonel
                        On the line of fire
                        Empty cities
                        In which never
                        You haven't been before
                        And the trains rush
                        In thin words
                        He didn't go crazy
                        You didn't know anything
                      36. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 28 November 2022 21: 21
                        +1
                        Colonel Vasin gathered his regiment
                        And he said to them, "Let's go home.
                        We have been at war for seventy years.
                        We thought life was a fight
                        But according to new intelligence
                        We were at war with ourselves."
                      37. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 November 2022 20: 58
                        +2
                        To whom is the rise, but to me it's trouble:
                        Corporal there, corporal here,
                        From morning until dawn.
                        I have fodder and rigging on me,
                        I have goulash and "Our Father" on me,
                        Yes, yes, damn it!

                        You are twenty years old, and at twenty years old
                        There is no god, there is no devil,
                        Yes, yes, I checked!
                        And you are kept on the road
                        Not angels, not gods
                        A corporal.
                      38. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 28 November 2022 21: 39
                        0
                        General dullness at our level, grew up like smart, grew up fools
                        They put on uniforms, filled glasses, barely drunk, sobered up, and understood
                        That this is life, but there is nowhere to go in it, there is social realism, a product of the Soviet
                        To whom to feast at the table of the insatiable, to whom to age at the broken trough.
                      39. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 November 2022 22: 05
                        +1
                        You can believe in the absence of faith,
                        You can do it in the absence of a case.
                        Beggars pray, pray on
                        That their poverty is guaranteed.
                        Here you can play yourself on the trumpet,
                        But how not to play, you all play hang up.
                        And if there are those who come to you,
                        There will be those who come for you.

                        Also bound in one chain,
                        Linked by one purpose.
                        Chained by one chain,
                        Linked by one.
                      40. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 28 November 2022 22: 08
                        +1
                        And nearby cases fly like bullets, -
                        Crazy, belated, blind, at the end, -
                        Some ventured to substitute themselves under them -
                        And immediately: who - in the grave, who - in high esteem.
                      41. Fat
                        Fat 28 November 2022 22: 18
                        +2
                        In the artificial summer room
                        We lie on a tiled table
                        And in the rays of artificial light
                        Wounds harden like jelly

                        People won't hear anymore
                        Our young funny voices
                        Now only heaven can hear them
                        People will never remember
                        Our ringing funny names
                        Now only silence remembers them
                      42. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 November 2022 22: 32
                        +2
                        Here the bullet flew by and - yeah ...
                        Here the bullet flew by and - yeah ...
                        Here the bullet flew by and my comrade fell ...
                        Here the bullet flew by and my friend fell.


                        "We gave him vodka - yeah ...
                        We gave him vodka - yeah...
                        We gave him vodka
                        Our comrade fell ... "(c)))))))))))))))))))))))
                      43. Fat
                        Fat 29 November 2022 07: 29
                        +1
                        But I believe that you
                        say again
                        These few words
                        And then I'm ready
                        Leave a mark
                        On this snow
                        And I know that I
                        Not long left to wait
                        To see again
                        Pine trees on the seashore
                      44. Catfish
                        Catfish 29 November 2022 08: 04
                        +1
                        I'll put on a black hat
                        I will go to the city of Anapa, -
                        And there I will lie all my life
                        On a beach as salty as a vobla.

                        I'm lying on the beach and milling
                        I do not regret my life,
                        And the seashore foams
                        With its irrepressible longing.

                        The prospects for life are very gloomy, -
                        I will solve the urgent question:
                        I will die under a country train,
                        Smiling between the wheels.

                        The evil abyss will open,
                        A great man will die
                        And the ladies, seeing the coffin,
                        They will understand that the handsome man is dead ...

                        The black hat remains
                        The city of Anapa will remain,
                        The seashore will remain
                        With my indefatigable longing...
                      45. know
                        know 27 November 2022 08: 40
                        +4
                        Oddly enough, from an evolutionary point of view, being good is more expedient than being bad. Because, of course, you can go over your head, leaving behind and around you scorched grass and barren land, but this leads to a loss in the future. There are many examples: here a person has reached the summit with meanness, but there is not a sincere friend around for a long time, only toadies who, at the first opportunity, will stab in the back and run over to the winner - this also applies to ordinary people, not only all kinds of rulers. Therefore, natural selection still supports normal people, and not "thugs" and lawless people.
                      46. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 November 2022 14: 24
                        +4
                        this leads to loss in the future.

                        The trouble is that very few people are able to think about the "further".
                      47. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 27 November 2022 15: 10
                        +3
                        In game theory, biology has modeled different strategies. Here much depends on the percentage ratio of conditional "hawks" and "doves".
                2. The comment was deleted.
  6. know
    know 26 November 2022 15: 24
    +3
    About the politics of Sosibia:
    The man, by the way, was clearly in his place, and Polybius calls him "a cunning and experienced old scoundrel."

    Universal characteristic. Can not argue with that!
    1. VLR
      27 November 2022 07: 44
      +2
      Why don't you argue? After all, there are “cunning and experienced politicians-scoundrels” of middle age. But this is the best of the best. More often we see young weak, inexperienced and poorly educated, like Liz Truss, or who have lived to senile dementia (like Joe Biden) or to complete degradation of the personality on the background of alcoholic encephalopathy (like Yeltsin). The big problem of the modern world is that, more and more often, instead of old and experienced cynics, absolutely unsuitable people, like the buffoon Zelensky, break through to power.
  7. acetophenone
    acetophenone 26 November 2022 17: 02
    +3
    ... excellently disposed of the present, but made a mistake in the future ...

    Well said...
  8. Illanatol
    Illanatol 27 November 2022 09: 02
    +2
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Borisych disagrees. The wealth of Rome began after the victory in the first Punic War. After the defeat of Magna Graecia and the capture of Sicily, Rome was the largest and richest city in the Apennine Peninsula.


    The real wealth of Rome began after the capture of Gaul by Caesar. Gaul was exceptionally rich in gold. It was after her capture that Rome was able to establish a regular minting of a gold coin. Prior to this, proud quirites had to use Persian dariks.
  9. Illanatol
    Illanatol 27 November 2022 09: 05
    +1
    Suffice it to say that in the Battle of Trasimene Lake (the famous Second Punic War), the 50th army of Hannibal was opposed by 25 Romans, and there was not a single elephant on both sides.


    Where does this data come from?
    I was always sure that in reality the army of Hannibal was inferior to the Romans in number. Where did he get 50 thousand from? After all the losses during the transition?
    Rather, he did not even have 30 thousand by that time.
    1. lubesky
      lubesky 28 November 2022 04: 36
      +1
      Quote: Illanatol
      Where does this data come from?
      I was always sure that in reality the army of Hannibal was inferior to the Romans in number. Where did he get 50 thousand from? After all the losses during the transition?
      Rather, he did not even have 30 thousand by that time.

      Hannibal had strong reinforcements from the local and further north Italian boot tribes and cities that had fallen away from Rome at various stages of Hannibal's success. The longer he walked around Rome, the more reliable allies took revenge on the Romans by betraying the oath. It will be easier for you to imagine the situation of that particular Rome if you imagine Rome not as an integral state-republic, but as a large policy of repulsed warriors, fastened into a small (but growing in strength) state with allied environs (however, it already has colonies in Spain, a kind of prototype of a colonial corporation -metropolis), whose loyalty was obtained by the Romans with great blood and cruelty, and solvency - by constant "reimbursement of insults" inflicted by periodically rising vassals to the Romans. A peculiar form of force in a particularly perverted form, the promotion of the jurisdiction of the city of Rome to the outer tribes and cities (doesn't it remind you of anything?). In general, the invasion of Hannibal is more likely a confederation of vassals and defeated allies brought down by obligations around a militant bandit city.

      However, the crushing defeat at Lake Trasimene is also inscribed in the history of Rome because Rome lost almost all the color of its youth and the youth of its faithful close allies there, and if not for Scipio Africanus ... but that's a completely different story
    2. Baker
      Baker 28 November 2022 13: 10
      +2
      Where does this data come from?

      Lazenby, John (1998). Hannibal's War: A Military History of the Second Punic War. Warminster: Aris & Phillips.
  10. Illanatol
    Illanatol 27 November 2022 09: 08
    +2
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    I note that in the advanced policies of the ancient Mediterranean, slaves were cheap and the uprisings of the latter were quite rare. That is, most of the latter were satisfied, a hundred of them are “exploited”.


    It is unlikely. There were just some very effective ways to keep slaves in line.
  11. Illanatol
    Illanatol 28 November 2022 09: 05
    +1
    Quote: lubesky
    Hannibal had strong reinforcements from the local and further north Italian boot tribes and cities that had fallen away from Rome at various stages of Hannibal's success. The longer he walked around Rome, the more reliable allies took revenge on the Romans by betraying the oath.


    In order for those who have not decided on a position to go over to your side, you first need to show them success. And after crossing the Alps, Hannibal's army thinned out considerably. Nevertheless, he was able to win victories at the beginning of the campaign with an army exhausted by such a transition.
    Yet as a strategist, Hannibal is so-so. Like Napoleon, he is an excellent tactician, but a mediocre strategist. Didn't prepare his campaign politically. Contacts with the Italian cities had to be established in advance, as with the Gauls (so as not to waste energy on skirmishes with them). It was not necessary to lead the entire army through the Alps - part could be transferred by sea (the Carthaginians had the technology of high-speed in-line construction of ships). It was worth looking for other allies to tie up the forces of the Romans. But first of all - to secure a solid rear for themselves, to restore order in Carthage, putting in their place the especially insolent oligarchs, who at a critical moment will refuse Hannibal in reserves.
    The scale of the Italic treachery should not be exaggerated. Many remained faithful to Rome. And Hannibal stupidly did not have enough strength to lay siege to Rome. It can be seen that the help of local renegades was clearly insufficient, and Hannibal's army itself suffered too great losses. He did not recruit slaves into the army, which was his next mistake.
  12. Illanatol
    Illanatol 29 November 2022 08: 50
    0
    Quote from Baker
    Where does this data come from?

    Lazenby, John (1998). Hannibal's War: A Military History of the Second Punic War. Warminster: Aris & Phillips.



    Thank you, of course. But, to be honest, I have little confidence in written sources, I prefer to immediately cut down such sturgeons.
    History, as you know, is written by the winners. Including because written testimonies from the vanquished do not reach our time. And we know about this war from Roman sources or Greek sources loyal to Rome. Given the obvious bias, it is difficult to count on objectivity. The Romans needed to somehow justify their initial military failures. The surest and most reliable way is to exaggerate the strength of the enemy. As usual ... "there were five of us, twenty-five of them, and both with brass knuckles." There is nothing new under the sun. The tradition is very old. When necessary, you elevate yourself, exaggerating your strength (what a huge army of Hellenes laid siege to the small town of Troy), and when you need to justify failures and inflate the scale of your final victory - the strength of the enemy.