Russian air defense systems shot down several Ukrainian aircraft hundreds of kilometers from the front line over the territory of Ukraine

The fall of two Ukrainian military aircraft at once over the past two days was reported by the Poltavashchyna publication. The media refers to the statement of the head of the regional administration Dmitry Lunin.

The military plane crashed on October 12 in the Shishak community. Eyewitnesses tell how they saw the plane crash. Two pilots ejected from the aircraft.

The next day, Governor Lunin reported that it was a Ukrainian Air Force aircraft. He also said that the day before, on October 11, a military plane also crashed, and also in the Shishat community.

The governor did not comment on the plane crashes in more detail, leaving this prerogative to the Ukrainian military department. Meanwhile, earlier it became known about the fall of the aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Vinnitsa region. The pilot also managed to eject there.

The crash site of a Ukrainian military aircraft in the Poltava region

The Ukrainian press is surprised: after all, both Vinnitsa and Poltava regions are located hundreds of kilometers from the front line. Journalists doubted that Russian air defense systems could work here. However, a clue soon emerged.

Russian air defense systems shot down a Su-27 of the Ukrainian Air Force near the village of Porskalivka, Poltava region,

- said the official representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov.

So, nevertheless, it is the Russian air defense that shoots down Ukrainian combat aircraft hundreds of kilometers from the front line.

Meanwhile, Russian military correspondents report that today a Su-27 fighter of the Ukrainian Air Force was shot down by means of air defense of the RF Armed Forces. Apparently, we are talking about one of the planes that fell in the Poltava region.

In addition, fighter aviation The Russian Aerospace Forces shot down a MiG-29 of the Ukrainian Air Force. Interestingly, this plane was shot down in the Dnipropetrovsk region, that is, also at a distance from the area of ​​active hostilities.

Comments

[rusich]

From the smell of "Geranium" letaki lose consciousness and break The S-500 most likely got it, it has a range of 600 km. No wonder the AWACS aircraft A-50 flew over the Crimea

[free]

Chased gerych 2, apparently unsuccessfully. An interesting thing, however, if it flies so far and without hindrance, and even fighters are lured

[neworange88]

Quote: Free

Chased gerych 2, apparently unsuccessfully. An interesting thing, however, if it flies so far and without hindrance, and even fighters are lured

Directs air defense on the radar of fighters?

In his opinion, The Drive experts could have made a mistake in the specifications of Shahed-136.

“Such a function as active targeting by radiation coming from a radar station is what a passive homing head provides, but the ability of the Iranian defense industry to provide such a function for their UAVs is questionable while the country is under (Western) sanctions. But if the statement about the ability of the Shahed to direct radars is true, then this detail is important. Because it means that trying to shoot down the Shahed-136 with an anti-aircraft gun equipped with a radar station is dangerous, ”the publication says.

And we are talking not only about long-range anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) S-300 or medium-range Buk-M1, which work thanks to radar guidance. We are talking about such weapons as the German Gepard self-propelled anti-aircraft guns, which have two radars for each unit at once, Defense Express continues its analysis.

https://rex-net.livejournal.com/6995738.html

[free]

Directs air defense on the radar of fighters?

It would be nice, but it seems to me that the Armed Forces of Ukraine raised fighters just to intercept Geranium, were discovered by our AWACS and shot down. The range of destruction of an enemy fighter from the front line is amazing. Apparently this is the result of Surovikin’s experience, who understands the capabilities of the Aerospace Forces and Air Defense, I sincerely hope that he sets as his goal, among other things, complete air superiority, if so success to him so that the enemy can’t get out of the cracks, not just attack, the Aerospace Forces has such potential that is not even half used today

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: Free

it seems that the APU raised fighters just to intercept Geranium

There is also information about the duty of fighters with RVV-BD during the massive launch of the KR on Bandera objects .. When the Nazis, in order to avoid bombing airfields, raised their aircraft into the air, our weapons with a range of more than 30 km were already waiting for them. which enemy air defenses could not reach. Su-24s were shot down just like that. God forbid, not the last time.

[Dedok]

Quote: Free

ВI guess this is the result of experience Surovikin, who understands the capabilities of the Aerospace Forces and Air Defense,

those. do the "other staff" have no understanding of the use of modern means in war?

[Rome]

There is understanding, but there is no courage to use all the possibilities!

[volodimer]

If this is the result of the work of the newly appointed, then I am only glad.
But I think there is a second point here. The enemy is trying to shoot down the "flower" by all available means, the result is the same as before: a high-speed messer against the sluggish Po-2. Only on the slug now there are no pilots. 29mu needs to either reduce the speed to close to stalling, or ... well, he didn’t hit and didn’t hit ..

[Sarboz]

Quote: Free

Chased gerych 2, apparently unsuccessfully. An interesting thing though if she is so far away and flies freely, and even lure fighters

Russian air defense systems shot down several Ukrainian aircraft hundreds of kilometers from the front line over the territory of Ukraine

For some reason, the emphasis is on moving away from the "front line", where the authors apparently mean Donbass or Kherson. And if you look at the border with Russia. From Porskalevka in Poltava region to the border of the Belgorod region is only 105 km.

[Herman 4223]

Air defense systems because there is none. That's why our geranium flies wherever it wants. Yes, and cruise missiles too.

[akropin]

Shishak community about 200 km to the border. The range of detection of air targets MIG-31 is up to 320 km, and the range of destruction is 280 km. It could very well be his work. Perhaps in tandem with the drill aircraft.

[Kurare]

Quote: akropin

The range of detection of air targets MIG-31 is up to 320 km, and the range of destruction is 280 km.

The MiG-31 with its long arm is for hitting AWACS-type aircraft. And Ukrainian aircraft fly at very low altitudes. These are very difficult goals.

[Skinich]

The MiG-31 is precisely designed to intercept small-sized low-altitude cruise missiles

[Bratkov Oleg]

The MiG-31 can also work on a large-sized aircraft carrier. Universal machine.

[Rome]

Why don't you consider Su57 or Hunter?

[Vasily M]

There is an opinion that in order to destroy our UAVs, the fighters of the wind forces in the rear flew up quite high at that moment, targets were captured and our missiles were launched, then the missile flew on the tip of our AWACS.

[Yura]

The house indoor flower geranium is a rather strong allergen, probably hence the name of the drone with a hint.

[Quote Lavrov]

Is this not the one that they wrote about yesterday that he was hunting for our UAV and came under "friendly fire"?

[Prjanik]

According to their statements, yesterday they themselves fell in the Vinnytsia region, today 2 in the Poltava region allegedly also themselves

[Quote Lavrov]

By and large, I wouldn’t be too surprised if it’s real. Often, it seems that flying ukrolitak is a one-way ticket and at the slightest hint of danger, ukroletuns simply eject

[AUL]

Quote: Quote Lavrov

Often, it seems that flying ukrolitak is a one-way ticket and at the slightest hint of danger, ukroletuns simply eject

Well, no need to flog nonsense! This stage is already in the past, when our uryakolki believed that the Ukrainian army was all cowards and clumsy and would scatter from frowning eyebrows. Life has shown that this is not entirely true. Otherwise, we would have been drinking Pepsi in Lviv cafes for a long time. And now the Ukrainians are bombing our cities. Underestimating the enemy is an unforgivable mistake!

[Mazunga]

of course, the squadron commander themselves fell before the departure of the whitefish, they seemed to have snatched it off, so they dragged it through the torpedo in the thieves' pocket and smoked during the flight

[Sebostyuan]

The videoconferencing has become noticeably more active. The rumble of planes in the sky - does not stop today.

[Leshak]

If what is written is true, then this is very good news.

[Gvardeetz77]

They shot down their own, and in order to save from lynching, either the stars (or whatever they have on their shoulder straps now) are saved on our air defense.

[fiv]

Hefty funnel, you see, he flew with a bonboy. And there were only small pieces left. Or have the big ones already been taken to the sheds?

[Cat Alexandrovich]

Wow! It also seemed to me that the funnel was too big for a fallen letak! M.b. did he just fall into a prepared hole?

[Evgenijus]

A funnel without traces of a horizontal (at an angle) entry of the aircraft into the ground indicates an almost vertical entry. The engine goes deep into the ground, and the wings scatter with an explosion to the sides of the funnel. There is a possibility that the wings could have been torn off the aircraft while still in the air, during the explosion of the rocket warhead.

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

In fact, the S-400 has a radius of 400 km. Yandex maps between Donetsk and Poltava - 410km. Crooked, on the roads!

Ukraine is actually a small country. From the north it borders on Belarus, and from the south it is pressed by the Black Sea. And it is not clear what is happening with Transnistria. Moreover, "the best air defense in the world is not the only one glorious S-400" (C) :)

So I do not understand the surprise of the author.

[Sebostyuan]

I'm no expert in military affairs, but common sense suggests otherwise. In order for the S-400 to shoot down an aircraft at a distance of 400 km, this aircraft must fly at an altitude of 10 km. If the downed aircraft "Tricks" of the air defense, then most likely the control center was given from the A-50.
Ps. minus you not from me.

[VyacheSeymour]

Quote from Sebostyuan

If the downed aircraft "Tricks" of the air defense, then most likely the control center was given from the A-50.

The fact that you are not a specialist in military affairs is not important ... I’ll tell you as an air defense officer - aiming at a target (CC) on an air defense system can only be issued by a divisional air situation control center - divisional, from a division, and not from a division . Target designation is issued to the command post of the regiment-division, and from there already to the starting battery's CPC. An AWACS aircraft can give out artillery coordinates, direct aircraft, air target coordinates for air defense if its resolution exceeds the circular view of the radar .... but, to aim a missile - well, it’s not given at all!

[Herman 4223]

400 km is the maximum launch range, an aircraft to be shot down at such a range also does not have to maneuver from the word at all, and the pilots would hardly have survived from a gap of 100 kg warhead. I'm just sure it was a classic fighter intercept. Most likely the R-77 or something new but about the same class of rocket, and therefore the pilots are alive.

[Sebostyuan]

"Actually, the S-400 has a radius of 400km."

"In order for the S-400 to shoot down an aircraft at a distance of 400 km, this aircraft must fly at an altitude of 10 km."

You're right. Today, enemies have recorded a record in the range of destruction of the aircraft. The record holder S300v4 hit the Ukrainian Su27 and Su 24 at a distance of 280 km.

[Two]

It was only our R-37 that flew, flew, looked for all the air defense and got tired ... And then immediately 2 litaks, well, both fell at once ...

[Mavrikiy]

Russian air defense systems shot down several Ukrainian aircraft hundreds of kilometers from the front line over the territory of Ukraine

Accept Mother of cheese-earth flying coffins....

[Vladimir Postnikov]

Is two already a few? A heap is how much?

[fiv]

When strangers were shot down - then a bunch, and when their own - then no

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

From Vinnitsa to Gomel, according to Yandex-maps - 490 km. Again, crooked and on the roads. So everything is more or less within the radius of the S-400. Not to mention other options.

In my opinion, ukram stupidly brainwashed. And they consider their country the largest. Remember? "... Our churches are in Canada, our capital is Moscow" (C)

But Ukraine is really small. Moreover, her stubbornness.

[Sergej1972]

Well, not small by European standards. Even now, after the loss of four regions, the area is larger than that of Germany or Italy.

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

That's how it is, but we are not in a political geography lesson now, to bazaar for the area of ​​​​European countries. And we gutarim purely for the size of the U. stub from the point of view of its penetration by the air defense of the Russian Federation. And this is where FSE is bad. There are almost no places left where you can safely fly. Where are cadets taught? Where to commission those who have not flown for a long time?

Not to mention the fact that there are a bunch of captured "stingers" that can be used by DRGs who are sympathetic to the Russian Federation, who simply do not like the current regime in the U., relatives of the wives of ukroletchikov who dream of a widow's pension ... :) The list is not over.

[Roust]

The Litak flyers did not share the bablos with their air defense, that's the result. And what do we have to do with it!?

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

Really! And what about RF? we even ran out of Caliber for a long time, back in March! So this is FSE self-destruction! :)

[Prjanik]

One of the grounded letaks, sort of like the Su-24mr on the wreckage

[tralflot1832]

With the help of DLRO, they could figure it out and bring it up. From a military informant, something like that about one plane.

[Roman RUS]

The Germans began to study the capabilities of their new air defense Iris-t and at the same time show how it works with pig-brains. But since the point is not iron, and in order not to catch the anti-radar gift from Ours, we decided to quickly show in practice that this prodigy would definitely save the pigs from Russian aviation and killed the Geraniums who were on a mission nearby with a catcher.

[Million]

So all the planes were shot down back in April, according to Konashenkov ...

[Crimean partisan 1974]

So all the planes were shot down back in April

... so be it ... it remains to kill the rest who remained in the non-states of the former Warsaw Treaty, and the tanks too. Evil tongues say when all the tanks of the Young Europeans run out .. they will drive Leo-1 from decrepit warehouses

[Skipper]

In general, I initially thought and hoped that having a S-400 with a firing range of 350-400 km, by default, any aircraft taking off would be driven up to their nostrils into the ground within the radius of the performance characteristics of the air defense system ... but it turned out that some responsible persons in the country preferred to spare them and give freedom of flight..until that time. And now the question. Is this outright treason or negligence?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Skipper

Actually, I initially thought and hoped that having an S-400 with a firing range of 350-400 km, by default, any aircraft taking off would be driven up to the nostrils into the ground within the radius of the performance characteristics of the air defense system

For some reason, everyone cites only one parameter - range. And at what height the target should be at the same time, they pass. This is at an altitude of 10 km, an enemy aircraft can be detected and hit at a distance of up to 400 km. The lower the flight altitude of the target, the shorter the distance it can be detected and destroyed. There is also a non-over-the-horizon radar station.

[Bayun]

they can even work on the ground (!), they say. How? Well, we have high, high, too, there is little, little of something. Didn't check. Information status: "military hearing".

[Piramidon]

Quote: Bayun

they can even work on the ground (!), they say. How?

They work on ground-based STATIONARY objects, the coordinates of which are known.

[rocket757]

Russian air defense systems shot down several Ukrainian aircraft hundreds of kilometers from the front line over the territory of Ukraine

. So, we HAVE long-range air defense.
Started using, now only...

[Horon]

Geranium 2 fired back from attacking aircraft. This feature was simply not advertised.
In general, it is strange to try to shoot down a UAV flying at a speed of 150 km / h by an airplane whose takeoff speed is even 2 times higher. He won't even have time to see her at her size and speed.

[Sebostyuan]

The VVSU did not notice how they were chasing "mopeds" and themselves became prey.
Now it's the turn, for the Caliber. Air raid all over Ukraine. In the cart they say - retribution flies to the west.

[TatarinSSSR]

Apparently the MiG-31BM worked. They are armed with large-range V-V missiles, ARVs allow you to see distant targets. Perhaps one of the still living AWACS A-50 or A-100 Premier illuminated.

[Herman 4223]

It is excluded, in all long-range missiles that the MiG-31 has that of long-range air defense systems, a very powerful warhead designed to destroy large aircraft. Fighter pilots in this case would not have a chance to survive. It is obvious that this was an interception in the depths of the territory by conventional fighters.

[TatarinSSSR]

I object. In the depths of the territory of Ukraine, a fairly powerful air defense system with target designation from NATO intelligence agencies has been preserved. This is 100% death for our aircraft.

[Herman 4223]

In this case, our geraniums and calibers could not hit targets anywhere in Lviv and in the western part of the country. But this does not even happen there, something is regularly covered there. Cruise missiles are not at all such a difficult target, they overcome most of the route at high altitudes, and not clinging to the ground. Even more geranium. Since these funds fly there, then there is no constantly working system there.

[TatarinSSSR]

A cruise missile and a heavy fighter are completely different targets for air defense, and even more so their detection range.

[Herman 4223]

The detection range is different, but they are quite detected for themselves, and they are shot down. The speed of a cruise missile of 800-900 km / h is only at high altitudes of several kilometers. Tomahawk, for example, rises to a height of 6 km. When a rocket dives to a low altitude, its speed drops by half. Can you imagine how long the rocket flies from the Black Sea to Lviv? And how can you see it when it has not yet pressed to the ground? With a more or less working air defense system, this is a time car to detect and shoot it down.

[2 Level Advisor]

well, if, as you say, all NATO radars with AWACS are working on this, there would be no problems in intercepting if there was normal air defense ..

[Andy_nsk]

It is excluded, in all long-range missiles that the MiG-31 has that of long-range air defense systems, a very powerful military unit designed to destroy large aircraft. Fighter pilots in this case would not have a chance to survive.

Not a fact, a lot depends on the trajectory of the meeting of the missile and the target, the place where the warhead was detonated, etc.
Pilots sometimes remain alive when even more powerful surface-to-air warheads are blown up, the most famous case being Pilot Powers.

[Herman 4223]

But the chance of dying is much higher. And the s-75 is hardly comparable in accuracy to modern air defense systems. I still think that it was the fighters who worked. Moreover, the defeat was at a great distance from the line of contact, and it is very unlikely to shoot down a maneuverable aircraft at such a range. Up to 200 km, one could still believe it, but then it’s almost fantastic.

[Carlos Hall]

They fall like ducks. Ukrainian aviation is practically destroyed with confirmed losses by visual documentation.

[Bodipancher]

The mass launch of CR and drones is a good opportunity to reveal the location of enemy air defense systems. Air defense overload and subsequent destruction. Who better than the new commander to know about this.

[Herman 4223]

To overload the air defense, it must at least work. And there it happens in a partisan mode, they turned on for a short while, if there was somewhere, and turned back. If the radars do not work in a constant mode, then there is nothing to overload. And they cannot work in a constant mode, because they quickly become targets.

[2 Level Advisor]

it’s not 10-15 seconds to screw up, you still need to drive the rocket until its head takes the target, if you get a desire, and not “shoot into milk”, and this sometimes takes several minutes .. so it’s quite possible to detect and destroy them .. if the task is set

[Herman 4223]

A long-range missile from the S-200 or the like will fly for several minutes. There are no such funds in Ukraine. And one or two minutes may simply not be enough to determine the location and for the plane to fly up to the launch point. And then there are also no fools, if they see that somewhere not so far away the planes are circling and suddenly start moving in their direction, they immediately curl up. If not Di...ly of course.

[2 Level Advisor]

about s-300 "The targeting method is inertial-command, using" tracking the target through the missile, "in which the missile seeker, receiving the backlight radar signals reflected from the target and specifying the target parameters, does not use them for homing, but transmits them to the command post, where the received data is compared with the data on the missile and the target available from the same radar, the optimal trajectory of the missile is calculated and the appropriate commands are transmitted to the missile. "

so estimate, from the moment you turn it on before launch, launch and lead to the goal, time will pass .. and if you are talking about Bukida, it’s faster there .. but the radius is a couple of tens of kilometers - you’ll build defenses on them - planes simply won’t enter their zone cover, for 20-50 km they will work out with missiles and leave, but you also need to fire a missile .. shot and forgot - there is no air defense in Ukraine, and with planes one with missile defense missiles can go - and the fur-bearing animal Buku .. all this has long been invented , for this there are medium and long-range complexes ..

[Herman 4223]

I think that it’s not so simple, it’s not enough to hang one PRL, someone has to calculate the exact position of the complex, that is, there should be an RTR aircraft in the air, in theory, of course, you can assemble a full-fledged group for each flight along with fighter bombers, RTR aircraft, electronic warfare, AWACS. Then the chances of shooting down some kind of aircraft will be minimal, and the complex that has proven itself will be destroyed. But then there will be no quick air support until this group gathers. So that air support does not depend on this factor, the entire necessary set of aircraft must constantly be in the air, and here is another problem. The front line is long in length, in order to constantly control this length, aircraft with PRL must hang in the air every 50-100 km. Aircraft RTR, EW, AWACS every 200-300 and most importantly constantly.

[2 Level Advisor]

Well, I was originally talking about the fact that they still have radars working ..

Quote: Herman 4223

I think that it’s not so simple, it’s not enough to hang one RRL, someone has to calculate the exact position of the complex

Of course, missiles alone are not enough, this is what the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine did with the MiG-29, containers for this are suspended under the aircraft with radar, they give target designation and the rest that is necessary for guidance ..

At the end of September 1987, state joint flight tests of this missile began, carried out on MiG-27M and Su-24M aircraft and successfully completed at the end of March 1988, after which the X-31P with PRGS-5VP was recommended for adoption. At the same time, control equipment was being worked out, which provided target designation of the GOS of missiles - containers "Phantasmagoria" and "Ethnography" for the Su-24M and "Progress" for the MiG-27 and Su-17.

BUT, of course, without entering the irradiation zone, it will be safer .. as one of the countermeasure options, for example .. cruise missiles went, followed by a board or two with this complex 30-40 km away, plus AWACS helps from above .. they open up, get PRLR .. several such visits, in several directions and air defense will be reduced significantly .. this is against Bukov, Os, etc. .. and you can hit the S-300 from afar, they won’t have time to curl up in 5-10 minutes ..

[Herman 4223]

How do they work for them if Russia strikes all over the territory and the missiles reach their targets. It just says that nothing works there. Even Kyiv or Lvov do not have protection from blows.

[2 Level Advisor]

I agree, Alexander! therefore, some questions, personally for me, arise about the use of the Air Force ..

[Herman 4223]

Probably save the car for a while. Or something else that we don't know about.

[Horn]

It seems that our propagandists again wishful thinking. So Ukrainian propagandists will soon begin to attribute the success of their air defense to the fall of aircraft on any territory of Russia.
It's just that in war conditions, there is no maintenance of aircraft. Fall due to technical reasons. Moreover, the planes are not very new ...

[Revolver]

Yes, it doesn’t matter who, what, and how they are knocked down, the main thing is that they fall more often.

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

Quote from Sebostyuan

I'm no expert in military affairs, but common sense suggests otherwise. In order for the S-400 to shoot down an aircraft at a distance of 400 km, this aircraft must fly at an altitude of 10 km. If the downed aircraft "Tricks" of the air defense, then most likely the control center was given from the A-50.
Ps. minus you not from me.

Well, at what height and whose tricks are those reptiles who "they don't fly themselves and don't give to others" (C) :) I'm talking about people from the best air defense in the world, if someone doesn't understand.

As for the minuses, I am an absolute badass in these matters. I am for pluralism of opinions. In a sense, on any issue there can be only one single correct opinion and as many strangers as you like! :)

[Herman 4223]

What's so amazing about this? There is no full-fledged air defense system in Ukraine, and there is no radar field either. Our planes can go deep enough because of this. Now, if they shot down somewhere near Zhitomir, it would be really interesting.

[Authority]

The C-500 has sufficient range.
Really tested directly in combat conditions?

[Crisp]

Quote from Sebostyuan

I'm no expert in military affairs, but common sense suggests otherwise. In order for the S-400 to shoot down an aircraft at a distance of 400 km, this aircraft must fly at an altitude of 10 km. If the downed aircraft "Tricks" of the air defense, then most likely the control center was given from the A-50.
Ps. minus you not from me.

But can't, for example, our over-the-horizon locators "help"? Telegraph a tattoo on the coordinates? They are written in the task, and homing already provides accurate guidance when close? Or am I too smart? Who is there to understand?

[2 Level Advisor]

no, they can’t, just some kind of “wunderwaffe” many of them do .. at least pointing at the target, it won’t work .. and they are not in “direct contact” with air defense divisions .. their principle of operation is completely different from that of the radar Air defense .. plus low-flying targets - it’s difficult for them to conduct, they were originally created to "capture" completely different targets .. plus they have a "dead zone" just somewhere over most of Ukraine - they are aimed at the EU .. plus how they are ours from not are ours different? although they are in the Aerospace Forces, but still the Aerospace Defense Forces from the very beginning .. plus we don’t have a single system that works like NATO, when the commander of even a battalion - on a tablet - sees both enemies and his own and their movements in real time and can enter strike requests .. and there are still nuances, but I think the above has already answered your question ..

[Crisp]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

The above already answered your question.

Yes, I didn’t think about the fact that the near zone for beyond the horizon is dead. You need to have a distance for reflection from the ionosphere, falling down, here, at this distance, there is a vacuum of information. This is physics, nothing to do with it .... But, here is an organization, tying everything into one knot is a matter of man, therefore, with time and with desire, it can be overcome. Alterations are terrible, in this century we will not keep up, but we must strive.