Military Review

Dispose or store old small arms in army warehouses?

178
On the instructions of the Ministry of Defense in Russia, the disposal of small weapons. In the main defense department of the country they say that today the Russian armories are literally overflowing with machine guns, sniper rifles and pistols that were made even more than 30 years ago. According to some data, at the beginning of 2012, the number of small arms in the military arsenals was about 16 million barrels, of which about 35-40% developed their resource. By the end of 2015, the office of Anatoly Serdyukov is going to dispose of about 4-million weapons.


This news was ambiguously perceived in Russia. Some people are convinced that the preservation and increase of the number of small arms in the country is a matter of national security, and therefore no utilization mechanisms with respect to the military arsenal are simply relevant. Others say that the disposal of old models of small arms, which had developed its resource a decade ago, was long overdue.

There is a rather remarkable opinion of experts, which boils down to the fact that the reduction in the number of military small arms by 4 million is too small a figure. It is necessary to make a more large-scale reduction, leaving no more than 3-4 million units in the reserve arsenal.

All parties have their reasons. Representatives of the first party are confident that the Ministry of Defense is involved in a dubious project that may affect the ability of the army to solve a whole range of tasks. The arguments in this case look approximately as follows: small arms were created for the benefit of the Fatherland, and therefore its mass utilization is a blow to the security of the Russian army, which may be faced with the need to participate in a large-scale conflict.

The newspaper "Moskovsky Komsomolets" directly says that the large-scale utilization of small arms, started by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is not similar to an episode more than 100-year ago, when Minister of War Sukhomlinov signed an order in which he authorized the disposal of thousands of rifles of Berdan system No. XXNX . Adjutant General Sukhomlinov in 400 year, said that this weapon only clutters up warehouses, and therefore it must either be sold or disposed of. However, after the outbreak of the First World War, problems with the armament of the Russian army appeared, which indicated the “flaw” of V.А. Sukhomlinov. Soon the head of the military ministry of imperial Russia was arrested and convicted of treason. Apparently, the "MK" makes it clear that the disposal of small arms of modern times can lead to the same consequences as the disposal after the order of V.А. Sukhomlinov in the second decade of the 2 century.

Supporters of plans for the disposal of small arms, announced by Anatoly Serdyukov, are not inclined to dramatize. In their opinion, it is simply incorrect to compare the situation of 1910 and 2012 for years, all the more so since we are talking about the disposal of outdated small arms. In the opinion of these people, if the industry works not to actually provide the army, but to pack only warehouses, and without replacing old weapons with new ones, then there is no need to modernize the army.

Both positions are worthy of respect. Indeed, the permanent storage of old weapons does not fit into the modernization plans. However, before something massively disposed of, it is necessary to analyze the manufacturing industry. If our enterprises are ready to fulfill all the points of the State Defense Order in terms of creating ultramodern small arms capable of becoming competitive, including in the world market, then the disposal of old weapons samples does not look frightening. But it often happens that we first carry out a total destruction, and then begin conversations and reflections on the fact that the idea was not reasonable and, therefore, began to be realized in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Well, whoever will be accused of treason there, and whether such a person will be found in the event of unpleasant events, this is already a big question ...

In this regard, so that no double judgments about the announced occasion should arise, the Ministry of Defense must guarantee that all the measures carried out do not go beyond the modernization framework and do not affect the country's defense capability. And in this case there is one guarantee - long-term contracts for the production of new high-precision, effective and reliable weapons, which must certainly be implemented.

By the way, at a time when 16 millions of trunks are actually lying without any use in military stores, in modern schools, life safety classes (BZ) in general have forbidden to conduct lessons on the study of weapons ... And if only recently a graduate of the school could bring the fact that the lessons of basic military training revealed to him the basics of dealing with small arms, today many senior students of the Kalashnikov machine gunner have seen, perhaps, depicted in numerous computer games ...
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  1. Vanek
    Vanek 24 October 2012 08: 10
    34
    Store the old ones until the new ones show the qualities that are present in the old ones. While the AK-12 does not establish itself as an AK-47, there can be no question of any replacement.
    1. dzvero
      dzvero 24 October 2012 08: 51
      20
      utilization utilization discord.
      if trunks go to remelting just because they were in warehouses for 30 years in factory lubrication, this is a crime.
      if the used trunks are sold in bantustan and to the rescue order new weapons from their manufacturers is welcome.
      although it seems to me there will be an option s - they will sell everything they want and they will take the revenue.
    2. WW3
      WW3 24 October 2012 09: 02
      13
      Tests of the prototype of the new Kalashnikov AK-12
      1. NUT
        NUT 24 October 2012 10: 25
        +3
        But did you try to bury them in the swamp, didn’t try to bury them in the sand?
      2. WW3
        WW3 24 October 2012 12: 47
        +5
        Kalashnikov assault rifle 100 mod. 101,102,103,104
        The machines are made with a folding butt.
        The design uses modern materials. Butt, shop, forend, barrel and pistol grip are made of plastic and have high impact resistance and resistance to external influences. The use of protective coatings provides high corrosion resistance of metal parts.
        On the machines there is a side bar for installing optical and night sights.
        The AK101 provides seats for attaching a 40-mm grenade launcher or bayonet-knife.
        The muzzle brake provides a high accuracy of automatic firing by reducing the withdrawal of the machine from the aiming point and lower recoil energy when firing.
        The quality control system available at the enterprise, including comprehensive testing, ensures high quality of AK101,102,103,104.
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 24 October 2012 12: 52
          0
          And what is the point in them? Now, if all these bells and whistles were made in the form of sets and put into the troops for the modernization of those stored, that would be the case.
          A simple purchase of such a waste of money
          1. WW3
            WW3 24 October 2012 13: 36
            +3
            The point is that they are needed primarily for special forces, the advantages are obvious - primarily in the accuracy of firing in bursts .... do not dispose of old samples .... if the weapons were stored properly they will always come in handy in case of mobilization of reservists .... just under the guise of recycling, they can really write off everything that may be lacking in army warehouses ... hi
            1. Nick
              Nick 24 October 2012 22: 19
              +2
              Quote: WW3
              do not dispose of old samples .... if the weapons were properly stored they will always come in handy in case of mobilization of reservists .... they can simply write off everything that may be missing in army warehouses to the hint of utilization ..

              Your conclusions are absolutely logical and therefore true ...
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 24 October 2012 14: 09
            0
            They do. As far as I understand, part will undergo modernization with body kits, plus they will partially begin to arm the AK-12. Rogozin won with body kit from the Israeli CAA Tactical on TV.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 24 October 2012 16: 38
              +1
              As far as I understand the video is an advertisement from some PMC, so here too the kit is not Izhevsk so the hodgepodge, albeit a decent one.
          3. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 24 October 2012 16: 49
            +4
            Quote: DIMS
            And what is the meaning of them

            replacing the butt - lightening the weapon and making it more comfortable for individual adjustment to the fighter, as well as the possibility of using a free swivel on the butt so that it is easy to change left-handed grip to right-handed (in the video the fighter does this without a belt) with a three-point belt, which is important in tactical terms;
            forend replacement - installation option:
            - tactical handle - run around, shooting from time to time without a handle and with it a couple of hours, you will understand the difference;
            - optical, collimator sight - here I think everything is clear;
            - a laser control unit, a tactical flashlight, or a new gimbal system - I also think there are no questions.

            Quote: DIMS
            waste of money

            this is your personal opinion, and erroneous.
  2. Strashila
    Strashila 24 October 2012 08: 20
    36
    What is the point of disposing of it ... it's all weapons for existing ammunition. Our bureaucrats from the Moscow Region do not remember the story ... there aren’t many weapons. I have to inventory the warehouses, maybe some part with wear in the furnace. So they don’t want to put things in order in the storage system, this is a completely different issue for counterintelligence and military prosecutors.
    1. borisst64
      borisst64 24 October 2012 11: 23
      12
      I sometimes have a nightmare - there is a battle, and I WITHOUT WEAPONS. God forbid this happen. After all, the storage of weapons does not require large expenditures, carefully lubricated and for years in a box.
    2. Lucky
      Lucky 24 October 2012 12: 52
      -4
      They need to be sold to Africa, to release new ones with the money received, or to cut the buoys to solder the barrel, like selling souvenirs to tourists!
  3. Mopnex
    Mopnex 24 October 2012 08: 23
    0
    The stock of ass is not e ... t.
  4. NickitaDembelnulsa
    NickitaDembelnulsa 24 October 2012 08: 43
    +5
    Yes, it’s not necessary to send them for scrapping, no one knows what will happen tomorrow ....
    1. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 25 October 2012 09: 27
      +1
      Quote: NickitaDembelnulsa
      Yes, it’s not necessary to send them for scrapping, no one knows what will happen tomorrow ....

      A large number of weapons that have been stored in the district warehouses have long been of the 5th category and are no longer suitable for combat use. I saw PMs and AKs in which the bolts do not twitch from rust and corrosion. There are also such rarities as machine guns "Maxim", "SGM" and revolvers "Nagant".
      1. NickitaDembelnulsa
        NickitaDembelnulsa 25 October 2012 12: 30
        0
        Shaw even in grease?
        1. ramzes1776
          ramzes1776 25 October 2012 14: 05
          +1
          Quote: NickitaDembelnulsa
          Shaw even in grease?

          There is a load and shoot in the lubricant, but there are simply stupidly groomed in boxes in bulk piled with elements of corrosion and with "shells" in the barrel.
  5. vylvyn
    vylvyn 24 October 2012 08: 48
    42
    Damn, here are the dunce, well, what is 16 million trunks in warehouses? And if the war and general mobilization throughout the country, where at least 50 ... 60 million people can hold weapons in their hands? How to arm the people? Again, how in Stalingrad - one rifle for 5 people? It’s good that there’s someone in their arms who has hunting weapons. But this will not save much. And if the Chinese trample like cockroaches? One hundred pounds of NATO will support them (especially the Baltic states with the Turks). Do we have an army of 50 million people to organize a real defense in depth of the whole country? It is clear, dear Mr. Minister, that you immediately rush to surrender and then over the hill closer to a satisfying and calm life.

    You need to keep your good! No wonder folk wisdom says - put away - take a closer look. And you need to keep wisely - to distribute by city. So that in case of mobilization and gathering of a combat-ready population, these weapons could immediately arm the whole country in a very short time.

    So 16 million for a country like ours is very little. There is still need to store and stock up, not dispose of. And we have enough warehouses, just how many of them are abandoned, including in cities. It's just that the Ministry of Defense has no time for the country's defense. In their eyes, there are now some zeros from the trillions of rubles allocated for this very defense. We must somehow "master" them.
    1. kosmos84
      kosmos84 24 October 2012 10: 15
      +9
      Quote: vylvyn
      You need to keep your good! No wonder folk wisdom says - put away - take a closer look.
      - STOCK J0PU IS NOT IBET = SO ACCURATE drinks
    2. starpom
      starpom 24 October 2012 12: 02
      +4
      Quote: vylvyn
      It's just that the Ministry of Defense is not up to the country's defense now.

      Not to the Ministry of Defense, but to its leaders and others like them
    3. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 24 October 2012 12: 05
      +7
      I agree with all the points that, in case of nuclear war, we even keep steam locomotives on conservation, and here the state good is squandered am;
      there is an opinion that some enemies of the people either want to make their own gesheft out of the guise, or hide the traces of former gesheft - evano as soon as a check is coming at the GRAU warehouses so (no difference in Russia or Ukraine) these warehouses immediately explode am .

      Quote: vylvyn
      Again, how in Stalingrad - one rifle for 5 people?

      stop there was no such thing!
      1. ramzes1776
        ramzes1776 25 October 2012 09: 32
        +1
        Quote: Karlsonn
        as soon as the check is due at the GRAU warehouses so (no difference in Russia or Ukraine) these warehouses immediately explode by themselves

        Sorry. Warehouses with large caliber ammunition explode, not with weapons. By the way, now all warehouses are subordinated to the districts.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 25 October 2012 13: 41
          0
          Quote: ramzes1776
          Warehouses with large caliber ammunition explode, not weapons

          and in our penises everything is torn, I know the case the tank was sold, I personally had the opportunity to buy a box of grenades, I still regret that I did not buy it.

          Quote: ramzes1776
          By the way, now all warehouses are subordinated to the districts.

          I am glad that in Russia they are starting to do it wisely.
    4. NickitaDembelnulsa
      NickitaDembelnulsa 25 October 2012 12: 39
      0
      I agree that the people in the hands of something to give? Pitchfork? Although I dare to argue, we have mobilization resources, 20-25 million.
  6. Lech e-mine
    Lech e-mine 24 October 2012 08: 48
    0
    And what about the Chinese market - after all, everyone knows the Chinese Kalash - a poor-quality copy.? And here you can buy real small arms from the Russians.
  7. AIvanA
    AIvanA 24 October 2012 08: 49
    11
    If you look at these experts, in the end people’s money and not small ones were spent on the production of weapons, and secondly, small arms aged 20-30 years old with ammunition can’t be old, in Afghanistan, the Amers use PCA and it’s pretty good about them respond. And to destroy simply, to produce in the current conditions is much more difficult.
    1. LION
      LION 24 October 2012 10: 21
      0
      Amer in Korea called PPSh - "Burp Gun" (burp machine gun)
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 24 October 2012 12: 14
        +5
        PPSh has not yet said everything, in the photo there is a modification with a collimator and a tactical fire transfer handle, with a tactical flashlight integrated into it:

        an acquaintance who served a couple of terms said that it is used not only as an exotic, but because of the cartridge (in mopping-up buildings), disk size and rate of fire angry
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 24 October 2012 12: 25
          0
          [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dT_Kyk4biMo/Te5XL5APdMI/AAAAAAAAAd0/HWvyHG8WHYE/s
          320/%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F.jpg[/img
          ]

          PCA is still used by police and military, for example, in Iraq.
        2. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 24 October 2012 12: 28
          +2
          PCA is still used by police and military, for example, in Iraq.
          1. Jin
            Jin 24 October 2012 14: 11
            0
            Quote: Karlsonn
            PCA is still used by police and military, for example, in Iraq.

            Okay??? That's what he did not know, that did not know! Not kidding for an hour?
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 24 October 2012 16: 59
              +1

              no, I’m not pretending, I myself was fascinated by the eyewitness account; he is from our former now in the US Marine in Afghanistan.
              The advantages of the PPSh in short - a light and at the same time powerful cartridge, small ricochet of a pistol bullet, an increased rate of fire, a large-capacity magazine, cartridges for the Soviet PPSh are suitable for both 7.62x25 TT (.30 Tokarev) with a 0.988 "long sleeve, and 0.30 Mauser with a long sleeve 0.990 ", the cartridge 7.62x25 TT cartridge is unified with the cartridge 0.30 Mauser cartridge, there is a buzz when cleaning the premises, look in the search - a photo of the PPSh in Iraq, where most of the photos are in the buildings or next to them drinks .

              pay attention to the tactical handles on the trunks, for greater ease of shooting.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 24 October 2012 22: 30
                0
                As I understand it, the Iraqis are using, judging by the form and so on?
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 24 October 2012 22: 32
                  0
                  Great machine, I still remember the grandfather told.
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 24 October 2012 22: 42
                    0
                    For lack of stamp wink Good machine. But already old. Although, maybe in modern processing one could sculpt something on her
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 24 October 2012 23: 08
                      0
                      Zhen himself showed that the craftsmen made of m1. They still improve the Volt 1911.
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 25 October 2012 01: 25
                        0
                        I do not argue. However, among PP there are many more advanced samples. But the 1911 is still, albeit a classic, more acquired by weapon lovers than by armies.
                      2. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 25 October 2012 01: 29
                        0
                        Zhen recently slipped on TV and released a new colt, I don’t remember the letter designation. Maybe you are in the know.
                      3. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 25 October 2012 01: 43
                        0
                        Colt 1911, with 45 ACP cartridge, MEU version 45 (SOC) pistol?
                        This gun was developed specifically for the Marine Corps Expeditionary Forces
                        Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU)
                        Marine Corps Expeditionary Forces (MEU) are the smallest airborne tactical formation of the Marine Corps. They include about 2100 marines and sailors.
                        And since the Corps has always stood apart from all the rest of the US Armed Forces. Then they decided that they still need a gun with great stopping power. Hence it is the Colt 1911, with the cartridge 45 ACP.
                        After some modernization, he received the name
                        MEU (SOC) pistol.
                      4. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 25 October 2012 01: 49
                        0
                        Thank you very much for the clarification. But I am interested in the latest modification of this gun. Its peculiarity is that it is machined from a whole piece of metal and has a great operational survivability of the barrel.
              2. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 25 October 2012 01: 28
                0
                as I understand it, in their long-term storage warehouses, to the amazement of the Americans, a rather large number of PCA was found, and since the Iraqi army is at the stage of formation and training, the requirements are appropriate, that is, require an Iraqi soldier to clean and lubricate M4 daily (and not Allah, if it turns out to be a Bushmaster) is necessary, but difficult.
                I think if you replace the bed and the butt, integrate the tactical handle you get interesting weight!
                This photo shows better what exactly the American did: shortened the butt, reduced the length, which is important in the premises, installed a tactical handle, a flashlight and a collimator for stability of the grip - everything for fighting inside the building - ricochets fewer times than M-ki, more cartridges yes

                caption to the photo "A paratrooper of the 82nd Airborne Division is practicing firing from a PPSh-41 with a collimator sight."
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 25 October 2012 01: 41
                  0
                  Once I got to the weapons depots that I just didn’t see there, and all the time I was tormented by the thought of how to steal the Mauser from there bully

                  The stock was shortened in vain, it can be seen in the photo that there is no normal tab.
                2. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 25 October 2012 01: 48
                  0
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  how to steal a mauser from there

                  still amuse myself with hope repeat .

                  Quote: Alex 241
                  The stock was shortened in vain, there is no normal tab in the photo

                  it’s a specialist for greater maneuverability, and there is no need for a special tab if you don’t release a disk in one queue, it’s a pistol cartridge, and the grip is two-handed.
                3. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 25 October 2012 01: 53
                  +1
                  We will amuse together. bully And according to the butt, judging by the black cut, apparently it was made by some of the local craftsmen, I would not file away, even hung a back plate.
                4. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 25 October 2012 13: 45
                  0
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  I wouldn’t cut down, even hung a back plate.

                  I would move into a serious armory, to probe the topic of the possibility of installing the Magpulovsky butt is expensive, but it's worth it.
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 25 October 2012 01: 10
      0
      Quote: Pimply
      judging by the form and so on?

      so sure, in the photo Iraqis.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 25 October 2012 01: 12
        0
        This was also discussed on one branch, although there were Americans in Iraq with the PCA.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 25 October 2012 01: 25
          0
          There is a separate topic.
  • crambol
    crambol 24 October 2012 22: 01
    0
    The upgrade is great!
    Based on past practice, the PPSh has two drawbacks: heavy, canal! and loading the disks is a dreary thing - the hand will jump off, and all the "hazel grouses" fan out! And so - good!
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 25 October 2012 01: 30
      +2
      "Life is good - when there is a PCA" ....
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 25 October 2012 01: 33
        0
        From the grandfather's stories, the worst thing in close combat is to hear a dry click of the shutter, which indicated that the cartridges were out.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 25 October 2012 01: 53
          0
          what the amers felt when a pack flew out with a ringing from the M1 Garand and the Japanese who sat next to him or the German knew that there were no rounds - it’s scary to imagine.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 25 October 2012 01: 55
            0
            It was called the BELL,
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 25 October 2012 07: 47
            0
            Amer quickly got the Japanese to catch it like a fish on a hook 8)
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 25 October 2012 13: 46
              0
              science they paid dearly.
  • bairat
    bairat 24 October 2012 08: 51
    32
    I propose to distribute "unnecessary" submachine guns to capable men who have served in the army for safekeeping.
    1. JonnyT
      JonnyT 24 October 2012 09: 14
      16
      I fully support! He served, proved himself well, there is no criminal record and other violations - get a weapon. In case of mobilization, the item arrived immediately with weapons
      1. zadotov
        zadotov 24 October 2012 09: 40
        15
        this is practiced in Europe, but in Russia half of the officials are afraid of their people, while the other (as in the case of the short-barrel) considers their people moronic, they say they will shoot each other, with our mentality ... what are we worse for example Brazilians I don’t know
        1. sanych
          sanych 24 October 2012 11: 08
          +6
          More precisely, in Switzerland. Every man there, having served in the army, goes home with his weapon. And in case of mobilization, the army immediately, without loss of time, receives a powerful reserve. In addition, well-trained, since military training is held there regularly. Switzerland is a small country, but the approach to defense is very responsible.
        2. Sirozha
          Sirozha 24 October 2012 11: 23
          +9
          The fact is that not only officials, but also the people themselves believe that we ourselves will shoot each other drunk! I specifically asked, let's say, “ordinary Soviet TV viewers”, and the majority of them have just such a view of weapons, unfortunately. But no one, for some reason, thinks that a fool will think before doing something, but is it worth it, because they can shoot!
          1. zadotov
            zadotov 24 October 2012 12: 14
            +4
            Take, for example, our neighbor, Finland, the third country in the world by unit of weapon per capita, it would seem respectable, law-abiding, principled citizens, but you go up to any Petersburger on the street and he will tell you a million interesting stories about them!
            When the district police officer came to see how the safe was installed under a simple trauma, he climbed everything with a tape measure and went to his place to read some other normative pieces of paper, and to my question: "that Caucasians in Moscow shoot from weapons registered there, they Is the safe screwed in every rented apartment? "- meaningfully he kept silent. Is that ...
          2. Lucky
            Lucky 24 October 2012 12: 56
            +3
            At the worst, it’s better to hand them over to the Syrians, they will find them there, they are needed like never before!
          3. bairat
            bairat 24 October 2012 13: 52
            +5
            It is on television that horrors are escalating, people say we are drunk, nothing can be trusted with him. Although the country has millions of hunting trunks and people are killed mainly with kitchen knives.
          4. ramzes1776
            ramzes1776 25 October 2012 14: 12
            +1
            Quote: Sirozha
            But no one, for some reason, thinks that a fool will think before doing something, but is it worth it, because they can shoot!

            Just a fool to think and will not, and if it does, then after a couple of dead bodies !!! And think about how to avoid punishment.
      2. NUT
        NUT 24 October 2012 10: 21
        +7
        Quote: JonnyT
        I fully support!
        But it was so under the Tsar - Father in our Don, but in the Kuban they drank and walked in Russian, but there was order in the villages - the world had never seen, neither robbery, nor theft, nor any other crime and the chieftain, al foreman, if " did it "on the same day and flogged, and changed, and out of stupidity they did not open fire, they knew what each cartridge was made for ...
    2. Lucky
      Lucky 24 October 2012 12: 54
      +3
      Yes, here to distribute machines for safekeeping, this is a super idea!
      1. antiaircrafter
        antiaircrafter 24 October 2012 23: 52
        0
        Quote: Lucky
        hand out vending machines for safekeeping

        I'll take two.
    3. Fox
      Fox 25 October 2012 09: 43
      -1
      two trunks per hand!
  • WW3
    WW3 24 October 2012 08: 52
    10
    As for AK, the old horse will not spoil the furrow ...
    1. TUNISIA
      TUNISIA 24 October 2012 10: 43
      +5
      But it will not plow deeply either. ))) Available stocks need to be replenished with more modern weapons, but certainly not allowed to re-melt them.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 24 October 2012 14: 11
        +1
        Storage is also grandmas worth
        1. adolph1
          adolph1 25 October 2012 09: 19
          +1
          money is nothing! And what will we do if the Chinese come running? We don’t stamp it in one day!
  • Mails
    Mails 24 October 2012 08: 53
    +2
    What to dispose of right away. Money and energy were spent on this weapon. What for ?
    It is better to get commercial benefits from this, to sell to the 3rd world countries.
    For their regional showdown, this will be enough. And the funds received also invest in the production of new ones.
  • predator.2
    predator.2 24 October 2012 08: 54
    +8
    4 million Kalashs must be handed out to every Russian family, to fight corruption, can you imagine how fast the bureaucracy will work, if a visitor with AKM comes to the reception, if earlier they spent one whole month on one piece of paper, now it can be obtained in a couple of minutes. lol
    1. Lech e-mine
      Lech e-mine 24 October 2012 09: 01
      14
      Yeah, put in front of the mayor’s school DSHK-IMMEDIATELY MONEY WILL APPEAR ON THE ROAD AND HOSPITALS AND SCHOOLS wink
    2. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 25 October 2012 09: 37
      -2
      Quote: predator.2
      4 million Kalashs must be handed out to every Russian family, to fight corruption, can you imagine how fast the bureaucracy will work, if a visitor with AKM comes to the reception, if earlier they spent one whole month on one piece of paper, now it can be obtained in a couple of minutes.

      Rather, they will shoot each other in the "blue" shop and hook the innocent !!!
  • lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 24 October 2012 09: 13
    11
    Well, the old can be disposed of and sold. But on one condition: the total number of trunks in storage should not be reduced by any trunk.
    1. strannik595
      strannik595 24 October 2012 10: 56
      0
      reasonable, support
    2. Sirozha
      Sirozha 24 October 2012 11: 25
      +1
      That’s just the point that THEY will melt everything from storage, and in the army the soldiers with the old trash will serve! .. It’s also easier!
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 24 October 2012 14: 12
      -5
      Can you imagine the cost of storage? They do not just lie. These are warehouses, the maintenance of which costs considerable grandmas
      1. bask
        bask 24 October 2012 14: 18
        0
        And if tomorrow is a full-blown war? What will the reservists be fighting? In Israel, the T55 has been mothballed since the 70s, apart from other weapons, And not enough, enough money ...
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 24 October 2012 22: 34
          -2
          And if, and if. If war is tomorrow, then at the same time 17 of millions of barrels still do not put under arms, especially such trunks. Based on your logic, you need to store everything from maxims to Napoleonic guns. Can you imagine the price of this storage?
          1. CRONOS
            CRONOS 25 October 2012 18: 05
            0
            No, we can't imagine. Can you enlighten us, how much does it cost the state to store, say, Ak-74? After all, I correctly understood that it is enough to "redeem" the AK in lubricant and pack it in paper, and to the warehouse. Or is it more complicated? request
        2. kopar
          kopar 30 November 2012 11: 06
          0
          Jews fight constantly. And they look at life soberly, realizing that defense should be in the first place.
      2. Andrew-001
        Andrew-001 25 October 2012 19: 27
        +1
        With all due respect, but following your logic, the Armed Forces must be dispersed as well - their maintenance is also "worth a lot of money."
  • Pharao7766
    Pharao7766 24 October 2012 09: 17
    14
    Sell ​​me a couple of trunks from those that were produced more than 30 years ago.
    (for me, the OTC mark is a real quality mark, or not the newfangled ISO9001 junk)
    Somehow I will not go broke at home to save this.
    In general, such ideas should be put on the wall!
    1. zadotov
      zadotov 24 October 2012 10: 06
      +7
      preferably 7.62, Even funny under the communists, there was enough space, but now there is not enough space, let Serdyukov demolish his "dacha" in Peresyp (which by the way was built on the lands of the Moscow Region) and build a storage or build a new warehouse on his land in Gorki-10. does everything, but just not what is necessary. We do not see the new ones, but we destroy the old ones. In the Criminal Code of 34, in Article 58 there were points for this gentleman, but in general it was called a capacious word sabotage
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 24 October 2012 09: 19
    +7
    Breaking - not building! Money is allocated for defense, and they want to steal as much more money with a minimum of effort. For all papers recycling will require huge financial costs! It's time to disperse the traitors and thieves !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. Castor oil
      Castor oil 24 October 2012 10: 53
      +7
      Quote: JonnyT
      For all papers, recycling will require huge financial costs.

      And by recycling, you can hide shortages in warehouses ... At least, such a rush to eliminate leads to a thought (worn-out weapons with shot barrels are of course in the oven, but brand new AKs and SVD in the factory lubrication are scrapped !? This is at least a crime!).
  • Gorchakov
    Gorchakov 24 October 2012 09: 23
    +6
    Russia, or rather its territory, has always been, and will be, an object representing a tidbit for the world's aggressive powers ... And given that the enemy will nevertheless try to unleash military operations on our territory, sooner or later, perhaps, there will be a need general mobilization .... I think that it is necessary to utilize the canned infantry only if it is completely interchangeable with new reliable modifications ... When attacking our Motherland, not only the Army, but also the entire personnel reserve of Russia, and even the entire people, will fight. ..E to be taken into account ....
  • leon-iv
    leon-iv 24 October 2012 09: 32
    +2
    Topvarians and have you ever seen a decommissioned barrel in your eyes?
    I wrote them off and sent them only when I had three fire translators had to be welded. To say that they were killed is to say nothing. So there’s nothing to fart your head in a puddle.
    Threat Once I had to go with a l / s to provide patronage assistance to sort the warehouses. You would be very surprised that there is)))))
    1. saruman
      saruman 24 October 2012 10: 41
      +5
      It takes great doubt that only samples that have developed their resources will be disposed of. Our MO really wants to get rid of the weapons depots (it is not in vain that they explode so often!) And sell the land on which they stand, get money for disposal, etc.

      Disposal of weapons that have not depleted their resources is a crime. With the intensive shooting training, which I hope will take place in the army, the weapon will wear out very quickly. And during the war, and even more so, in Chechnya, a submachine gun was shot in the trash in two months. Where will we get the new one later? Izhmash, the only manufacturer of the AK assault rifle, is on its way, but TOZ has no production of assault rifles for a long time.
    2. TUNISIA
      TUNISIA 24 October 2012 10: 49
      +5
      PCA, etc.? We know that they still lie. And the Stechkin in bulk and TT. PPSh with AK, of course, cannot be compared, but the APS and TT will give a real battle to almost any modern mass pistol. Those weapons, which, due to their technical condition, are not able to "get into service" - yes, they can be disposed of. But there are millions of barrels in mobile warehouses, of which not a single shot has been fired in several decades since their production.
    3. Gecko
      Gecko 24 October 2012 11: 02
      +2
      In the warehouses of the three-ruler, the beginning of the last century, howitzers of the 30s, Katyushas of the 40s, etc. are still stored. I saw it myself.
    4. survivor
      survivor 24 October 2012 11: 09
      +5
      yeah, we saw, we know))). and PPSh IPPS in grease, ISVT and AVS are brand new, and mosinki drawers))). I don’t know how it is now, before every smaller plant had a warehouse with outdated weapons. ao Russian Railways, I generally keep quiet))). not a single division could be formed. and there remained a militia. Oh, people would have it !!!
    5. Pushkar
      Pushkar 24 October 2012 16: 42
      +2
      Do all decommissioned trunks look like this? In each warehouse, in addition to the heads of storage departments, there is a head of the destruction department. It is he constantly conducts culling arriving from parts of weapons. And the emergency destruction of millions of trunks is a crime and this is really a cover for theft and sale of weapons.
  • Ghenxnumx
    Ghenxnumx 24 October 2012 09: 34
    +3
    This is definitely not necessary for the homeland. stop
    Seek someone profitable ...
  • Egoza
    Egoza 24 October 2012 09: 37
    10
    -Granddad! And what are you watering beds with cucumbers? They’ll disappear!
    - Let them disappear, but the machine gun will not rust!
    (Ukrainian anecdote).
    Before you destroy something, you need to stock up on new ones, and of improved quality. Is there such a guarantee? If not, then what kind of destruction can we talk about? Small arms do not explode from long storage, like bombs, shells, and so on. Someone just needs to make money on this business. Moreover, in two directions at once. 1. In case of "utilization" (they will sell half, and put the money in their pocket) 2. At the expense of the state, they will provide the right people with profitable contracts.
  • omsbon
    omsbon 24 October 2012 09: 41
    +3
    The lesson of 1941 should not be repeated!
    Before you throw something away, you need to think, as they say, "measure seven times, cut once"
    1. Sirozha
      Sirozha 24 October 2012 11: 27
      +2
      The bureaucrats think in their pocket, not with their heads and not about the country!
  • Igor
    Igor 24 October 2012 09: 42
    -5
    Dispose or store old small arms in army warehouses?


    It doesn’t matter! They will either slowly dig it or from the warehouses or during disposal.
  • ded_73
    ded_73 24 October 2012 09: 43
    +7
    Here, against Russia, it plays the accepted position of selling exclusively the latest weapons. I know firsthand about the interest of so many, especially African armies, Soviet small arms. Ukrainian and Belarusian warehouses are practically empty. There is especially great interest in AKMS, not remakes (there is such a practice to remake AKM into AKMS, in which the stock folds to the left side). The export price for AKM reaches $ 250-270 per unit. It is for the Soviet model. And his absence gives rise to all kinds of "crafts". It's a pity. The African market is still promising.
  • NUT
    NUT 24 October 2012 09: 59
    +6
    It is also necessary to utilize urgently those bureaucrats from the Moscow Region who we don’t drink, who serve anyone, but not their Fatherland.
    They are trying to convince us of the benefits and expediency in the middle of winter to throw solid but morally obsolete boots and walk barefoot through slush, frost, waiting for new design decisions.
    This is not an explosion, but the complete destruction, even of the slightest of our ability to defend.
    And there are a lot of examples of this, starting with the purchase of weapons from a potential adversary, ending with the destruction of high-class, combat-ready military units, equipment and weapons. The clearest example of this is the nuclear submarine "Shark" which today, whatever they say, has no equal, but our boats were killed not in a mortal battle for the Motherland, but betrayed by corrupt high ranks.
    Some kind of "strategist" gave out that if you disable all the electronics, and to do this (he believes) is not very difficult, then those who have preserved "three-line" and "thirty-four" will become the winners ...
  • Larus
    Larus 24 October 2012 10: 00
    +3
    Explain to me how in the warehouses where small arms are stored (probably in the drawers all the same), it can work out its resource ???? Or is it a fashion now that went so far as to disarm the army by yourself, and then do nothing it didn’t happen. Indeed, in the event of any major conflict it turns out that again there will not be enough weapons for everyone, at least one that was made 30 years ago.
    1. wasjasibirjac
      wasjasibirjac 24 October 2012 17: 06
      +1
      but like that, according to the Ministry of Defense, weapons lying in a drawer continue to spend their resources, probably shoot at night. and weapons produced in the 80's are superior in quality to what they produce now
  • vik71
    vik71 24 October 2012 10: 12
    13
    A sad and sad story repeating in Russia with a certain frequency ...... A leader (minister, marshal) arrives who begins to create from his foolishness - to re-melt Berdanki. 1910 ........., warehouses on the western border. 1939 ......, airplanes and guns are not needed. 1962 ......., take off missiles from duty and saw them. 1988 .... And now another pi..da non-combatant is trying to give Russia a good perspective, and maybe a real opportunity, in the event of a military conflict, to fight with shotguns from a home safe and bottles of cops. And he will look at it from London by the Air Force or YouTube. good
    1. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd 24 October 2012 14: 06
      +1
      In 1993, he went on guard for the protection of aircraft with his 2-barrel and only by May 1994 received personal weapons.
  • Penek
    Penek 24 October 2012 10: 15
    +6
    JonnyT is right - this is another "vacuum cleaner" for the development of budgetary funds, it does not smell of any concern about defense capability. It is hard to believe that 4 million barrels are so worn out that they cannot be restored - we have not used so many, including Afghan. in the early 80s, our green brothers carried both PPSh and Mauser rifles - someone kept all this rarity in warehouses for 40 years.
    In Soviet times, the kink of the fire translator was not the reason for the transfer to the 5th category; AK was sent for overhaul to the army or district bases, where all the worn out iron changed, and then for storage.
  • general.bnw
    general.bnw 24 October 2012 10: 21
    +7
    Lord! HOW can you dispose of such masterpieces as SKS-45 and AK arr. 1947, many of which were practically never used !? SCS, in my opinion, should be preserved forever as a ceremonial weapon of honor guards, as a work of weapons art! .. Until recently, there were a lot of Mosin carbines and other old, but reliable models, to which modern cartridges are applicable . Well, they remembered the sad example of General Sukhomlinov ...
    1. wasjasibirjac
      wasjasibirjac 24 October 2012 17: 09
      0
      The answer may be one - sell it to the people. SCSs in the USA are sold for 200-1000 bucks, but they charge it to us impossibly
  • DIMS
    DIMS 24 October 2012 10: 32
    +5
    This question cannot be asked so clearly. Weapons stored in warehouses are of different quality.
    The barrels "killed" during use or due to improper storage must be disposed of, it makes no sense to overhaul them. Is that to make an exception for machine guns PK, NSVS, DShK.
    Normal trunks are worth keeping. Moreover, their disposal does not pay off.

    I remember communicating with one officer from the arsenal, he told how the drafts were disposed of. They simply broke it and sent it for re-melting. It would be far more prudent to sell collectors who have no historical value abroad, and to preserve award and personal (there were such) ones. But no, they disposed of it all and lost money.
    On the other hand, they sold the SCS consignment to the USA. Having earned a lot of money, we were able to hold out in the post-default period, paying wages to workers, when everyone in the Moscow Region was aground until the end of December.
  • Leisure
    Leisure 24 October 2012 10: 40
    +4
    Built a new one, then break the old one.
  • itr
    itr 24 October 2012 10: 42
    +1
    Laser! you're right
  • apro
    apro 24 October 2012 10: 42
    +2
    What to twitch and let go lie eating do not ask for trunks that are not shot in bulk in bulk it is not yet known how everything will turn out with remakes, the guy from the army returned to the brigade new AK shit bayonet disposable knife.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Sirozha
    Sirozha 24 October 2012 11: 16
    0
    Convert to the possibility of shooting only single and sell to civilians !!! Or don’t even have to redo it, it’s time to instill in people a culture of gun ownership!
  • alex shnajder
    alex shnajder 24 October 2012 11: 23
    +1
    to distribute to the population and let it be kept) I think everyone will be FOR
  • Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 24 October 2012 11: 25
    +1
    Of course, to store, if possible, redo something for hunting or civilian, but the bulk must be stored unambiguously!
  • gorkoxnumx
    gorkoxnumx 24 October 2012 11: 32
    0
    The stock of AK series machines should be enough for 20 years, this is a strategic reserve !!!
  • Vodrak
    Vodrak 24 October 2012 11: 33
    +3
    Sell ​​to the public! I would take one AK for myself, well, for the wife of SVD, otherwise she sees poorly.
  • Ahmar
    Ahmar 24 October 2012 11: 44
    0
    damn redo what is possible for civilian (hunting) weapons and sell to the population, passing along the necessary law on weapons!
  • grizzlir
    grizzlir 24 October 2012 12: 15
    +1
    I remember that in the era of perestroika, thousands of obsolete tanks were massively launched under the cutter. The argument was iron, but why do we need them, there are too many of them. Yes, and a new model of the tank is on the way, we will soon put the T-72 on conservation. It’s possible, of course, to use dynamic armor on to supply the old people and modernize by the little things, but still they are inferior to their foreign counterparts, but we are not at war with the partisans in the future war. For a tanker it was like a knife to the heart.And then there was Chechnya.
  • Bort radist
    Bort radist 24 October 2012 12: 18
    +3
    Disposal must not be allowed.
    There will be two options
    1 First write off then steal.
    2 First they steal then write off.
    Today "fires" are being arranged. But to be afraid that sooner or later they will burn. For our officials, "utilization" is a platinum bottom.
    1. Lucky
      Lucky 24 October 2012 13: 06
      +3
      I agree with you, most likely they are already stolen, they just need to be written off somehow!
  • DEfindER
    DEfindER 24 October 2012 12: 43
    +4
    I’m becoming more and more convinced that our Ministry of Defense is engaged in a direct undermining of the country's defense capabilities, and not its strengthening!
    Any step, such as
    1. purchase of imported equipment from NATO countries, while depriving our defense industry of orders .. (by the way, which they can stupidly disconnect from the satellite at the right time, remember Hussein with his Mirages)
    2. Periodic explosions of weapons depots, as I doubt such coincidences that they themselves began to explode ..
    3. Disposal of weapons which for another 30 years will be at least relevant ..
    4 But what about corruption, so generally the people already have the impression that Moscow Region and corruption are 2 inextricable concepts ..

    For example, Syria can only hold on due to the large number of weapons in warehouses and the creation of people's militias from people who have lost their relatives .. They appreciate the Union’s military tradition and our weapons, which can’t be said about ourselves .. And our minister seems to be doing work on errors, on the topic of what needs to be done so that the Syrian (Libyan) scenario rolls in Russia ..
  • Hoosiberian
    Hoosiberian 24 October 2012 13: 01
    +8
    To dispose of Soviet-made AK, for me, this is how to dispose of gold. The same associations.
    Let them lie, do not ask. Serious kneading will begin, mobilization is the very weapon for non-professionals.
    1. DEMENTIY
      DEMENTIY 24 October 2012 13: 26
      +5
      Golden words - PLUS! good hi
      1. Hoosiberian
        Hoosiberian 24 October 2012 13: 30
        0
        repeat Thank you of course ...)) I took it. hi
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 24 October 2012 15: 54
          +3
          I would like to add that, for example, the SVD rifles of the first series were made from steel of very high quality, increased manufacturing accuracy and impeccable processing of the barrel bore. The accuracy of the battle of the SVD, released in the 60s, was often higher than that of non-automatic, magazine rifles. Here, and the "old" weapon, the same can be said about the quality of the AK. It has already been said above that the stock does not hold a pocket, the disposal of small arms is a crime. As for a related topic - disposal of ammunition, sorry, but it would be better, bastards, they carried out more live firing.
          1. Hoosiberian
            Hoosiberian 24 October 2012 16: 02
            +1
            So here I am about the same. The Soviet quality of small arms production is excellent, and if the barrels are still not fired, "in oil," then it is generally a crime to dispose of such wealth ...
  • dirty trick
    dirty trick 24 October 2012 13: 27
    +1
    can not be disposed of !!! in extreme cases, you can sell in America - there, against the backdrop of arming the US Department of Homeland Security, the population is also actively arming itself:
    http://www.bestguns.ru/article.php?article=179643&asearch=
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 24 October 2012 13: 30
    0
    Quote: Hoosiberian
    Let them lie, do not ask.

    I fully support.
    According to the experience of ammunition disposal, I think it’s better not to touch it more lively, but about distributing it to the people, because in general, wars of a regional scale may begin, the West is not an example to us.
    1. Vodrak
      Vodrak 24 October 2012 17: 45
      0
      Weapons for the population are like an atomic bomb for a state. everyone knows that it is but no one uses
  • d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 24 October 2012 13: 37
    +3
    Well, lie to yourself and let them be stored. The USSR entered the Second World War with huge stocks of weapons, but by 1942 there weren’t even enough rifles.
    Disposal, as always, will lead to the destruction of rare weapons, to the ability to write off stolen goods, to the ability to steal, to undermine the mob. of opportunities.
    Someone does not argue that if there is a war, it will not be like the Second World War. But the Chechen war showed that: the DShK, the Mosinka, the Shmayser (MR-40), the TT, and the PPSh did not lose their combat capabilities, and in some cases they showed themselves better than the most modern small arms.
    Therefore, I believe it is too early to write off and destroy "pensioners" for the sake of a controversial one-time benefit.
    Although what we are discussing here DOES NOT SOLVE ANYTHING, how Serdyukov decided so and will deeply crap him on the opinion of both ours and the current armed forces.
    "Loot" is everything. Over the past 50 years - this is the most incompetent mo and the most despised by all those associated with the Armed Forces! am
    IT IS VERY SORRY THAT GDP DOESN’T WANT TO HEAR AND SEE THE PROCESS OF DESTROYING THE COUNTRY'S ABILITY WITH THIS DIGGER * OM
    1. Karabin
      Karabin 24 October 2012 21: 25
      +2
      Quote: d.gksueyjd
      IT IS VERY SORRY THAT GDP DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR AND SEE THE PROCESS

      Yes, he fucks your pity.
  • SIT
    SIT 24 October 2012 13: 44
    +4
    While the army is nothing new, but if a person knows how to shoot, then he can shoot from anything. If now with the available weapons we begin normal small arms training with everyone who is armed with a machine gun as a personal weapon, will these stockpiles be enough? These reserves are enough if the fighters will shoot as we have taken 2-3 times for service, of which one 3 rounds before taking the Oath.
    1. I-16M
      I-16M 24 October 2012 13: 52
      0
      good Golden words
  • I-16M
    I-16M 24 October 2012 13: 45
    +1
    30 years and re-melting? Did I miss anything? Are we moving on to Star Wars blasters? It would be interesting to ask the Minister of Defense, and how many times does Kalashnikov 2012 exceed the 1980 AK?
  • Mishael
    Mishael 24 October 2012 13: 49
    +1
    From February 15 2007 - Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation.
    President Vladimir Putin explained the meaning of such a personnel decision by the fact that in the context of the development and re-equipment of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, associated with the expenditure of "huge budgetary funds," "you need a person with experience in the field of economics and finance"
    Graduated from the Leningrad Institute of Soviet Trade (1984 year),
    He graduated from the Law Faculty of St. Petersburg State University (2001 year).
    Candidate of Economic Sciences. (2000 year)
    Thesis on the topic "The concept and system organization of the formation of consumer-oriented business structures"
    Doctor of Economics (2006 year)
    Thesis on the topic: "Formation and implementation of the tax policy of modern Russia"
    Courses of the Military Academy of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (2007 year)
    What defensiveness can one speak after that ?!
    1. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd 24 October 2012 16: 32
      0
      Quote: Mishael
      associated with the expenditure of "huge budget funds", "you need a person with experience in the field of economics and finance"

      Correctly for these purposes it was even better to appoint Berezovsky and not Serdyukov. At least he does not hide his attitude towards the Russian Federation. and this "sent Cossack"
      1. wasjasibirjac
        wasjasibirjac 24 October 2012 17: 14
        0
        Berezovsky can’t. he’s an army like an aeroflot to the West, he’ll drag safes to Switzerland
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 24 October 2012 14: 06
    +1
    Before disposing or storing, you need to decide which cartridge we will use. If the weapon has worked, you can sell abroad or under the press. New to store after shooting. Well, respectively, next to store a suitable cartridge.
    1. studentmati
      studentmati 24 October 2012 20: 50
      +1
      Great comment !!! It’s high time to introduce the NATO cartridge so that the Yankees do not bother when they come to our warehouses and realize that they do not need 7,62! DARKNESS, what's going on !!!
  • d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 24 October 2012 14: 09
    +2
    It's time to turn to GDP, I propose to write an open letter on the removal of Serdyukov from the post of Mo RF
  • Setrac
    Setrac 24 October 2012 14: 52
    +2
    It’s all right to dispose of, and Syria will win the tender for disposal, just dispose of ATGMs, MANPADS, grenade launchers, and well on through the list.