Dispose or store old small arms in army warehouses?

178
On the instructions of the Ministry of Defense in Russia, the disposal of small weapons. In the main defense department of the country they say that today the Russian armories are literally overflowing with machine guns, sniper rifles and pistols that were made even more than 30 years ago. According to some data, at the beginning of 2012, the number of small arms in the military arsenals was about 16 million barrels, of which about 35-40% developed their resource. By the end of 2015, the office of Anatoly Serdyukov is going to dispose of about 4-million weapons.

This news was ambiguously perceived in Russia. Some people are convinced that the preservation and increase of the number of small arms in the country is a matter of national security, and therefore no utilization mechanisms with respect to the military arsenal are simply relevant. Others say that the disposal of old models of small arms, which had developed its resource a decade ago, was long overdue.

There is a rather remarkable opinion of experts, which boils down to the fact that the reduction in the number of military small arms by 4 million is too small a figure. It is necessary to make a more large-scale reduction, leaving no more than 3-4 million units in the reserve arsenal.

All parties have their reasons. Representatives of the first party are confident that the Ministry of Defense is involved in a dubious project that may affect the ability of the army to solve a whole range of tasks. The arguments in this case look approximately as follows: small arms were created for the benefit of the Fatherland, and therefore its mass utilization is a blow to the security of the Russian army, which may be faced with the need to participate in a large-scale conflict.

The newspaper "Moskovsky Komsomolets" directly says that the large-scale utilization of small arms, started by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is not similar to an episode more than 100-year ago, when Minister of War Sukhomlinov signed an order in which he authorized the disposal of thousands of rifles of Berdan system No. XXNX . Adjutant General Sukhomlinov in 400 year, said that this weapon only clutters up warehouses, and therefore it must either be sold or disposed of. However, after the outbreak of the First World War, problems with the armament of the Russian army appeared, which indicated the “flaw” of V.А. Sukhomlinov. Soon the head of the military ministry of imperial Russia was arrested and convicted of treason. Apparently, the "MK" makes it clear that the disposal of small arms of modern times can lead to the same consequences as the disposal after the order of V.А. Sukhomlinov in the second decade of the 2 century.

Supporters of plans for the disposal of small arms, announced by Anatoly Serdyukov, are not inclined to dramatize. In their opinion, it is simply incorrect to compare the situation of 1910 and 2012 for years, all the more so since we are talking about the disposal of outdated small arms. In the opinion of these people, if the industry works not to actually provide the army, but to pack only warehouses, and without replacing old weapons with new ones, then there is no need to modernize the army.

Both positions are worthy of respect. Indeed, the permanent storage of old weapons does not fit into the modernization plans. However, before something massively disposed of, it is necessary to analyze the manufacturing industry. If our enterprises are ready to fulfill all the points of the State Defense Order in terms of creating ultramodern small arms capable of becoming competitive, including in the world market, then the disposal of old weapons samples does not look frightening. But it often happens that we first carry out a total destruction, and then begin conversations and reflections on the fact that the idea was not reasonable and, therefore, began to be realized in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Well, whoever will be accused of treason there, and whether such a person will be found in the event of unpleasant events, this is already a big question ...

In this regard, so that no double judgments about the announced occasion should arise, the Ministry of Defense must guarantee that all the measures carried out do not go beyond the modernization framework and do not affect the country's defense capability. And in this case there is one guarantee - long-term contracts for the production of new high-precision, effective and reliable weapons, which must certainly be implemented.

By the way, at a time when 16 millions of trunks are actually lying without any use in military stores, in modern schools, life safety classes (BZ) in general have forbidden to conduct lessons on the study of weapons ... And if only recently a graduate of the school could bring the fact that the lessons of basic military training revealed to him the basics of dealing with small arms, today many senior students of the Kalashnikov machine gunner have seen, perhaps, depicted in numerous computer games ...
178 comments
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  1. Vanek
    +34
    24 October 2012 08: 10
    Store the old ones until the new ones show the qualities that are present in the old ones. While the AK-12 does not establish itself as an AK-47, there can be no question of any replacement.
    1. +20
      24 October 2012 08: 51
      utilization utilization discord.
      if trunks go to remelting just because they were in warehouses for 30 years in factory lubrication, this is a crime.
      if the used trunks are sold in bantustan and to the rescue order new weapons from their manufacturers is welcome.
      although it seems to me there will be an option s - they will sell everything they want and they will take the revenue.
    2. WW3
      WW3
      +13
      24 October 2012 09: 02
      Tests of the prototype of the new Kalashnikov AK-12
      1. NUT
        NUT
        +3
        24 October 2012 10: 25
        But did you try to bury them in the swamp, didn’t try to bury them in the sand?
      2. WW3
        WW3
        +5
        24 October 2012 12: 47
        Kalashnikov assault rifle 100 mod. 101,102,103,104
        The machines are made with a folding butt.
        The design uses modern materials. Butt, shop, forend, barrel and pistol grip are made of plastic and have high impact resistance and resistance to external influences. The use of protective coatings provides high corrosion resistance of metal parts.
        On the machines there is a side bar for installing optical and night sights.
        The AK101 provides seats for attaching a 40-mm grenade launcher or bayonet-knife.
        The muzzle brake provides a high accuracy of automatic firing by reducing the withdrawal of the machine from the aiming point and lower recoil energy when firing.
        The quality control system available at the enterprise, including comprehensive testing, ensures high quality of AK101,102,103,104.
        1. DIMS
          0
          24 October 2012 12: 52
          And what is the point in them? Now, if all these bells and whistles were made in the form of sets and put into the troops for the modernization of those stored, that would be the case.
          A simple purchase of such a waste of money
          1. WW3
            WW3
            +3
            24 October 2012 13: 36
            The point is that they are needed primarily for special forces, the advantages are obvious - primarily in the accuracy of firing in bursts .... do not dispose of old samples .... if the weapons were stored properly they will always come in handy in case of mobilization of reservists .... just under the guise of recycling, they can really write off everything that may be lacking in army warehouses ... hi
            1. +2
              24 October 2012 22: 19
              Quote: WW3
              do not dispose of old samples .... if the weapons were properly stored they will always come in handy in case of mobilization of reservists .... they can simply write off everything that may be missing in army warehouses to the hint of utilization ..

              Your conclusions are absolutely logical and therefore true ...
          2. 0
            24 October 2012 14: 09
            They do. As far as I understand, part will undergo modernization with body kits, plus they will partially begin to arm the AK-12. Rogozin won with body kit from the Israeli CAA Tactical on TV.
            1. +1
              24 October 2012 16: 38
              As far as I understand the video is an advertisement from some PMC, so here too the kit is not Izhevsk so the hodgepodge, albeit a decent one.
          3. +4
            24 October 2012 16: 49
            Quote: DIMS
            And what is the meaning of them

            replacing the butt - lightening the weapon and making it more comfortable for individual adjustment to the fighter, as well as the possibility of using a free swivel on the butt so that it is easy to change left-handed grip to right-handed (in the video the fighter does this without a belt) with a three-point belt, which is important in tactical terms;
            forend replacement - installation option:
            - tactical handle - run around, shooting from time to time without a handle and with it a couple of hours, you will understand the difference;
            - optical, collimator sight - here I think everything is clear;
            - a laser control unit, a tactical flashlight, or a new gimbal system - I also think there are no questions.

            Quote: DIMS
            waste of money

            this is your personal opinion, and erroneous.
  2. +36
    24 October 2012 08: 20
    What is the point of disposing of it ... it's all weapons for existing ammunition. Our bureaucrats from the Moscow Region do not remember the story ... there aren’t many weapons. I have to inventory the warehouses, maybe some part with wear in the furnace. So they don’t want to put things in order in the storage system, this is a completely different issue for counterintelligence and military prosecutors.
    1. borisst64
      +12
      24 October 2012 11: 23
      I sometimes have a nightmare - there is a battle, and I WITHOUT WEAPONS. God forbid this happen. After all, the storage of weapons does not require large expenditures, carefully lubricated and for years in a box.
    2. Lucky
      -4
      24 October 2012 12: 52
      They need to be sold to Africa, to release new ones with the money received, or to cut the buoys to solder the barrel, like selling souvenirs to tourists!
  3. Mopnex
    0
    24 October 2012 08: 23
    The stock of ass is not e ... t.
  4. NickitaDembelnulsa
    +5
    24 October 2012 08: 43
    Yes, it’s not necessary to send them for scrapping, no one knows what will happen tomorrow ....
    1. +1
      25 October 2012 09: 27
      Quote: NickitaDembelnulsa
      Yes, it’s not necessary to send them for scrapping, no one knows what will happen tomorrow ....

      A large number of weapons that have been stored in the district warehouses have long been of the 5th category and are no longer suitable for combat use. I saw PMs and AKs in which the bolts do not twitch from rust and corrosion. There are also such rarities as machine guns "Maxim", "SGM" and revolvers "Nagant".
      1. NickitaDembelnulsa
        0
        25 October 2012 12: 30
        Shaw even in grease?
        1. +1
          25 October 2012 14: 05
          Quote: NickitaDembelnulsa
          Shaw even in grease?

          There is a load and shoot in the lubricant, but there are simply stupidly groomed in boxes in bulk piled with elements of corrosion and with "shells" in the barrel.
  5. vylvyn
    +42
    24 October 2012 08: 48
    Damn, here are the dunce, well, what is 16 million trunks in warehouses? And if the war and general mobilization throughout the country, where at least 50 ... 60 million people can hold weapons in their hands? How to arm the people? Again, how in Stalingrad - one rifle for 5 people? It’s good that there’s someone in their arms who has hunting weapons. But this will not save much. And if the Chinese trample like cockroaches? One hundred pounds of NATO will support them (especially the Baltic states with the Turks). Do we have an army of 50 million people to organize a real defense in depth of the whole country? It is clear, dear Mr. Minister, that you immediately rush to surrender and then over the hill closer to a satisfying and calm life.

    You need to keep your good! No wonder folk wisdom says - put away - take a closer look. And you need to keep wisely - to distribute by city. So that in case of mobilization and gathering of a combat-ready population, these weapons could immediately arm the whole country in a very short time.

    So 16 million for a country like ours is very little. There is still need to store and stock up, not dispose of. And we have enough warehouses, just how many of them are abandoned, including in cities. It's just that the Ministry of Defense has no time for the country's defense. In their eyes, there are now some zeros from the trillions of rubles allocated for this very defense. We must somehow "master" them.
    1. +9
      24 October 2012 10: 15
      Quote: vylvyn
      You need to keep your good! No wonder folk wisdom says - put away - take a closer look.
      - STOCK J0PU IS NOT IBET = SO ACCURATE drinks
    2. +4
      24 October 2012 12: 02
      Quote: vylvyn
      It's just that the Ministry of Defense is not up to the country's defense now.

      Not to the Ministry of Defense, but to its leaders and others like them
    3. +7
      24 October 2012 12: 05
      I agree with all the points that, in case of nuclear war, we even keep steam locomotives on conservation, and here the state good is squandered am;
      there is an opinion that some enemies of the people either want to make their own gesheft out of the guise, or hide the traces of former gesheft - evano as soon as a check is coming at the GRAU warehouses so (no difference in Russia or Ukraine) these warehouses immediately explode am .

      Quote: vylvyn
      Again, how in Stalingrad - one rifle for 5 people?

      stop there was no such thing!
      1. +1
        25 October 2012 09: 32
        Quote: Karlsonn
        as soon as the check is due at the GRAU warehouses so (no difference in Russia or Ukraine) these warehouses immediately explode by themselves

        Sorry. Warehouses with large caliber ammunition explode, not with weapons. By the way, now all warehouses are subordinated to the districts.
        1. 0
          25 October 2012 13: 41
          Quote: ramzes1776
          Warehouses with large caliber ammunition explode, not weapons

          and in our penises everything is torn, I know the case the tank was sold, I personally had the opportunity to buy a box of grenades, I still regret that I did not buy it.

          Quote: ramzes1776
          By the way, now all warehouses are subordinated to the districts.

          I am glad that in Russia they are starting to do it wisely.
    4. NickitaDembelnulsa
      0
      25 October 2012 12: 39
      I agree that the people in the hands of something to give? Pitchfork? Although I dare to argue, we have mobilization resources, 20-25 million.
  6. Lech e-mine
    0
    24 October 2012 08: 48
    And what about the Chinese market - after all, everyone knows the Chinese Kalash - a poor-quality copy.? And here you can buy real small arms from the Russians.
  7. AIvanA
    +11
    24 October 2012 08: 49
    If you look at these experts, in the end people’s money and not small ones were spent on the production of weapons, and secondly, small arms aged 20-30 years old with ammunition can’t be old, in Afghanistan, the Amers use PCA and it’s pretty good about them respond. And to destroy simply, to produce in the current conditions is much more difficult.
    1. 0
      24 October 2012 10: 21
      Amer in Korea called PPSh - "Burp Gun" (burp machine gun)
      1. +5
        24 October 2012 12: 14
        PPSh has not yet said everything, in the photo there is a modification with a collimator and a tactical fire transfer handle, with a tactical flashlight integrated into it:

        an acquaintance who served a couple of terms said that it is used not only as an exotic, but because of the cartridge (in mopping-up buildings), disk size and rate of fire angry
        1. 0
          24 October 2012 12: 25
          [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dT_Kyk4biMo/Te5XL5APdMI/AAAAAAAAAd0/HWvyHG8WHYE/s
          320/%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F.jpg[/img
          ]

          PCA is still used by police and military, for example, in Iraq.
        2. +2
          24 October 2012 12: 28
          PCA is still used by police and military, for example, in Iraq.
          1. Jin
            0
            24 October 2012 14: 11
            Quote: Karlsonn
            PCA is still used by police and military, for example, in Iraq.

            Okay??? That's what he did not know, that did not know! Not kidding for an hour?
            1. +1
              24 October 2012 16: 59

              no, I’m not pretending, I myself was fascinated by the eyewitness account; he is from our former now in the US Marine in Afghanistan.
              The advantages of the PPSh in short - a light and at the same time powerful cartridge, small ricochet of a pistol bullet, an increased rate of fire, a large-capacity magazine, cartridges for the Soviet PPSh are suitable for both 7.62x25 TT (.30 Tokarev) with a 0.988 "long sleeve, and 0.30 Mauser with a long sleeve 0.990 ", the cartridge 7.62x25 TT cartridge is unified with the cartridge 0.30 Mauser cartridge, there is a buzz when cleaning the premises, look in the search - a photo of the PPSh in Iraq, where most of the photos are in the buildings or next to them drinks .

              pay attention to the tactical handles on the trunks, for greater ease of shooting.
              1. 0
                24 October 2012 22: 30
                As I understand it, the Iraqis are using, judging by the form and so on?
                1. Alex 241
                  0
                  24 October 2012 22: 32
                  Great machine, I still remember the grandfather told.
                  1. 0
                    24 October 2012 22: 42
                    For lack of stamp wink Good machine. But already old. Although, maybe in modern processing one could sculpt something on her
                    1. Alex 241
                      0
                      24 October 2012 23: 08
                      Zhen himself showed that the craftsmen made of m1. They still improve the Volt 1911.
                      1. 0
                        25 October 2012 01: 25
                        I do not argue. However, among PP there are many more advanced samples. But the 1911 is still, albeit a classic, more acquired by weapon lovers than by armies.
                      2. Alex 241
                        0
                        25 October 2012 01: 29
                        Zhen recently slipped on TV and released a new colt, I don’t remember the letter designation. Maybe you are in the know.
                      3. 0
                        25 October 2012 01: 43
                        Colt 1911, with 45 ACP cartridge, MEU version 45 (SOC) pistol?
                        This gun was developed specifically for the Marine Corps Expeditionary Forces
                        Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU)
                        Marine Corps Expeditionary Forces (MEU) are the smallest airborne tactical formation of the Marine Corps. They include about 2100 marines and sailors.
                        And since the Corps has always stood apart from all the rest of the US Armed Forces. Then they decided that they still need a gun with great stopping power. Hence it is the Colt 1911, with the cartridge 45 ACP.
                        After some modernization, he received the name
                        MEU (SOC) pistol.
                      4. Alex 241
                        0
                        25 October 2012 01: 49
                        Thank you very much for the clarification. But I am interested in the latest modification of this gun. Its peculiarity is that it is machined from a whole piece of metal and has a great operational survivability of the barrel.
                    2. 0
                      25 October 2012 01: 28
                      as I understand it, in their long-term storage warehouses, to the amazement of the Americans, a rather large number of PCA was found, and since the Iraqi army is at the stage of formation and training, the requirements are appropriate, that is, require an Iraqi soldier to clean and lubricate M4 daily (and not Allah, if it turns out to be a Bushmaster) is necessary, but difficult.
                      I think if you replace the bed and the butt, integrate the tactical handle you get interesting weight!
                      This photo shows better what exactly the American did: shortened the butt, reduced the length, which is important in the premises, installed a tactical handle, a flashlight and a collimator for stability of the grip - everything for fighting inside the building - ricochets fewer times than M-ki, more cartridges Yes

                      caption to the photo "A paratrooper of the 82nd Airborne Division is practicing firing from a PPSh-41 with a collimator sight."
                      1. Alex 241
                        0
                        25 October 2012 01: 41
                        Once I got to the weapons depots that I just didn’t see there, and all the time I was tormented by the thought of how to steal the Mauser from there bully

                        The stock was shortened in vain, it can be seen in the photo that there is no normal tab.
                      2. 0
                        25 October 2012 01: 48
                        Quote: Alex 241
                        how to steal a mauser from there

                        still amuse myself with hope feel .

                        Quote: Alex 241
                        The stock was shortened in vain, there is no normal tab in the photo

                        it’s a specialist for greater maneuverability, and there is no need for a special tab if you don’t release a disk in one queue, it’s a pistol cartridge, and the grip is two-handed.
                      3. Alex 241
                        +1
                        25 October 2012 01: 53
                        We will amuse together. bully And according to the butt, judging by the black cut, apparently it was made by some of the local craftsmen, I would not file away, even hung a back plate.
                      4. 0
                        25 October 2012 13: 45
                        Quote: Alex 241
                        I wouldn’t cut down, even hung a back plate.

                        I would move into a serious armory, to probe the topic of the possibility of installing the Magpulovsky butt is expensive, but it's worth it.
                2. 0
                  25 October 2012 01: 10
                  Quote: Pimply
                  judging by the form and so on?

                  so sure, in the photo Iraqis.
                  1. Alex 241
                    0
                    25 October 2012 01: 12
                    This was also discussed on one branch, although there were Americans in Iraq with the PCA.
                    1. 0
                      25 October 2012 01: 25
                      There is a separate topic.
        3. 0
          24 October 2012 22: 01
          The upgrade is great!
          Based on past practice, the PPSh has two drawbacks: heavy, canal! and loading the disks is a dreary thing - the hand will jump off, and all the "hazel grouses" fan out! And so - good!
          1. +2
            25 October 2012 01: 30
            "Life is good - when there is a PCA" ....
            1. Alex 241
              0
              25 October 2012 01: 33
              From the grandfather's stories, the worst thing in close combat is to hear a dry click of the shutter, which indicated that the cartridges were out.
              1. 0
                25 October 2012 01: 53
                what the amers felt when a pack flew out with a ringing from the M1 Garand and the Japanese who sat next to him or the German knew that there were no rounds - it’s scary to imagine.
                1. Alex 241
                  0
                  25 October 2012 01: 55
                  It was called the BELL,
                2. 0
                  25 October 2012 07: 47
                  Amer quickly got the Japanese to catch it like a fish on a hook 8)
                  1. 0
                    25 October 2012 13: 46
                    science they paid dearly.
  8. +32
    24 October 2012 08: 51
    I propose to distribute "unnecessary" submachine guns to capable men who have served in the army for safekeeping.
    1. +16
      24 October 2012 09: 14
      I fully support! He served, proved himself well, there is no criminal record and other violations - get a weapon. In case of mobilization, the item arrived immediately with weapons
      1. +15
        24 October 2012 09: 40
        this is practiced in Europe, but in Russia half of the officials are afraid of their people, while the other (as in the case of the short-barrel) considers their people moronic, they say they will shoot each other, with our mentality ... what are we worse for example Brazilians I don’t know
        1. +6
          24 October 2012 11: 08
          More precisely, in Switzerland. Every man there, having served in the army, goes home with his weapon. And in case of mobilization, the army immediately, without loss of time, receives a powerful reserve. In addition, well-trained, since military training is held there regularly. Switzerland is a small country, but the approach to defense is very responsible.
        2. Sirozha
          +9
          24 October 2012 11: 23
          The fact is that not only officials, but also the people themselves believe that we ourselves will shoot each other drunk! I specifically asked, let's say, “ordinary Soviet TV viewers”, and the majority of them have just such a view of weapons, unfortunately. But no one, for some reason, thinks that a fool will think before doing something, but is it worth it, because they can shoot!
          1. +4
            24 October 2012 12: 14
            Take, for example, our neighbor, Finland, the third country in the world by unit of weapon per capita, it would seem respectable, law-abiding, principled citizens, but you go up to any Petersburger on the street and he will tell you a million interesting stories about them!
            When the district police officer came to see how the safe was installed under a simple trauma, he climbed everything with a tape measure and went to his place to read some other normative pieces of paper, and to my question: "that Caucasians in Moscow shoot from weapons registered there, they Is the safe screwed in every rented apartment? "- meaningfully he kept silent. Is that ...
          2. Lucky
            +3
            24 October 2012 12: 56
            At the worst, it’s better to hand them over to the Syrians, they will find them there, they are needed like never before!
          3. +5
            24 October 2012 13: 52
            It is on television that horrors are escalating, people say we are drunk, nothing can be trusted with him. Although the country has millions of hunting trunks and people are killed mainly with kitchen knives.
          4. +1
            25 October 2012 14: 12
            Quote: Sirozha
            But no one, for some reason, thinks that a fool will think before doing something, but is it worth it, because they can shoot!

            Just a fool to think and will not, and if it does, then after a couple of dead bodies !!! And think about how to avoid punishment.
      2. NUT
        NUT
        +7
        24 October 2012 10: 21
        Quote: JonnyT
        I fully support!
        But it was so under the Tsar - Father in our Don, but in the Kuban they drank and walked in Russian, but there was order in the villages - the world had never seen, neither robbery, nor theft, nor any other crime and the chieftain, al foreman, if " did it "on the same day and flogged, and changed, and out of stupidity they did not open fire, they knew what each cartridge was made for ...
    2. Lucky
      +3
      24 October 2012 12: 54
      Yes, here to distribute machines for safekeeping, this is a super idea!
      1. 0
        24 October 2012 23: 52
        Quote: Lucky
        hand out vending machines for safekeeping

        I'll take two.
    3. Fox
      -1
      25 October 2012 09: 43
      two trunks per hand!
  9. WW3
    WW3
    +10
    24 October 2012 08: 52
    As for AK, the old horse will not spoil the furrow ...
    1. +5
      24 October 2012 10: 43
      But it will not plow deeply either. ))) Available stocks need to be replenished with more modern weapons, but certainly not allowed to re-melt them.
      1. +1
        24 October 2012 14: 11
        Storage is also grandmas worth
        1. adolph1
          +1
          25 October 2012 09: 19
          money is nothing! And what will we do if the Chinese come running? We don’t stamp it in one day!
  10. +2
    24 October 2012 08: 53
    What to dispose of right away. Money and energy were spent on this weapon. What for ?
    It is better to get commercial benefits from this, to sell to the 3rd world countries.
    For their regional showdown, this will be enough. And the funds received also invest in the production of new ones.
  11. predator.2
    +8
    24 October 2012 08: 54
    4 million Kalashs must be handed out to every Russian family, to fight corruption, can you imagine how fast the bureaucracy will work, if a visitor with AKM comes to the reception, if earlier they spent one whole month on one piece of paper, now it can be obtained in a couple of minutes. lol
    1. Lech e-mine
      +14
      24 October 2012 09: 01
      Yeah, put in front of the mayor’s school DSHK-IMMEDIATELY MONEY WILL APPEAR ON THE ROAD AND HOSPITALS AND SCHOOLS wink
    2. -2
      25 October 2012 09: 37
      Quote: predator.2
      4 million Kalashs must be handed out to every Russian family, to fight corruption, can you imagine how fast the bureaucracy will work, if a visitor with AKM comes to the reception, if earlier they spent one whole month on one piece of paper, now it can be obtained in a couple of minutes.

      Rather, they will shoot each other in the "blue" shop and hook the innocent !!!
  12. +11
    24 October 2012 09: 13
    Well, the old can be disposed of and sold. But on one condition: the total number of trunks in storage should not be reduced by any trunk.
    1. 0
      24 October 2012 10: 56
      reasonable, support
    2. Sirozha
      +1
      24 October 2012 11: 25
      That’s just the point that THEY will melt everything from storage, and in the army the soldiers with the old trash will serve! .. It’s also easier!
    3. -5
      24 October 2012 14: 12
      Can you imagine the cost of storage? They do not just lie. These are warehouses, the maintenance of which costs considerable grandmas
      1. bask
        0
        24 October 2012 14: 18
        And if tomorrow is a full-blown war? What will the reservists be fighting? In Israel, the T55 has been mothballed since the 70s, apart from other weapons, And not enough, enough money ...
        1. -2
          24 October 2012 22: 34
          And if, and if. If war is tomorrow, then at the same time 17 of millions of barrels still do not put under arms, especially such trunks. Based on your logic, you need to store everything from maxims to Napoleonic guns. Can you imagine the price of this storage?
          1. 0
            25 October 2012 18: 05
            No, we can't imagine. Can you enlighten us, how much does it cost the state to store, say, Ak-74? After all, I correctly understood that it is enough to "redeem" the AK in lubricant and pack it in paper, and to the warehouse. Or is it more complicated? request
        2. 0
          30 November 2012 11: 06
          Jews fight constantly. And they look at life soberly, realizing that defense should be in the first place.
      2. +1
        25 October 2012 19: 27
        With all due respect, but following your logic, the Armed Forces must be dispersed as well - their maintenance is also "worth a lot of money."
  13. +14
    24 October 2012 09: 17
    Sell ​​me a couple of trunks from those that were produced more than 30 years ago.
    (for me, the OTC mark is a real quality mark, or not the newfangled ISO9001 junk)
    Somehow I will not go broke at home to save this.
    In general, such ideas should be put on the wall!
    1. +7
      24 October 2012 10: 06
      preferably 7.62, Even funny under the communists, there was enough space, but now there is not enough space, let Serdyukov demolish his "dacha" in Peresyp (which by the way was built on the lands of the Moscow Region) and build a storage or build a new warehouse on his land in Gorki-10. does everything, but just not what is necessary. We do not see the new ones, but we destroy the old ones. In the Criminal Code of 34, in Article 58 there were points for this gentleman, but in general it was called a capacious word sabotage
  14. +7
    24 October 2012 09: 19
    Breaking - not building! Money is allocated for defense, and they want to steal as much more money with a minimum of effort. For all papers recycling will require huge financial costs! It's time to disperse the traitors and thieves !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. +7
      24 October 2012 10: 53
      Quote: JonnyT
      For all papers, recycling will require huge financial costs.

      And by recycling, you can hide shortages in warehouses ... At least, such a rush to eliminate leads to a thought (worn-out weapons with shot barrels are of course in the oven, but brand new AKs and SVD in the factory lubrication are scrapped !? This is at least a crime!).
  15. Gorchakov
    +6
    24 October 2012 09: 23
    Russia, or rather its territory, has always been, and will be, an object representing a tidbit for the world's aggressive powers ... And given that the enemy will nevertheless try to unleash military operations on our territory, sooner or later, perhaps, there will be a need general mobilization .... I think that it is necessary to utilize the canned infantry only if it is completely interchangeable with new reliable modifications ... When attacking our Motherland, not only the Army, but also the entire personnel reserve of Russia, and even the entire people, will fight. ..E to be taken into account ....
  16. +2
    24 October 2012 09: 32
    Topvarians and have you ever seen a decommissioned barrel in your eyes?
    I wrote them off and sent them only when I had three fire translators had to be welded. To say that they were killed is to say nothing. So there’s nothing to fart your head in a puddle.
    Threat Once I had to go with a l / s to provide patronage assistance to sort the warehouses. You would be very surprised that there is)))))
    1. +5
      24 October 2012 10: 41
      It takes great doubt that only samples that have developed their resources will be disposed of. Our MO really wants to get rid of the weapons depots (it is not in vain that they explode so often!) And sell the land on which they stand, get money for disposal, etc.

      Disposal of weapons that have not depleted their resources is a crime. With the intensive shooting training, which I hope will take place in the army, the weapon will wear out very quickly. And during the war, and even more so, in Chechnya, a submachine gun was shot in the trash in two months. Where will we get the new one later? Izhmash, the only manufacturer of the AK assault rifle, is on its way, but TOZ has no production of assault rifles for a long time.
    2. +5
      24 October 2012 10: 49
      PCA, etc.? We know that they still lie. And the Stechkin in bulk and TT. PPSh with AK, of course, cannot be compared, but the APS and TT will give a real battle to almost any modern mass pistol. Those weapons, which, due to their technical condition, are not able to "get into service" - yes, they can be disposed of. But there are millions of barrels in mobile warehouses, of which not a single shot has been fired in several decades since their production.
    3. +2
      24 October 2012 11: 02
      In the warehouses of the three-ruler, the beginning of the last century, howitzers of the 30s, Katyushas of the 40s, etc. are still stored. I saw it myself.
    4. survivor
      +5
      24 October 2012 11: 09
      yeah, we saw, we know))). and PPSh IPPS in grease, ISVT and AVS are brand new, and mosinki drawers))). I don’t know how it is now, before every smaller plant had a warehouse with outdated weapons. ao Russian Railways, I generally keep quiet))). not a single division could be formed. and there remained a militia. Oh, people would have it !!!
    5. +2
      24 October 2012 16: 42
      Do all decommissioned trunks look like this? In each warehouse, in addition to the heads of storage departments, there is a head of the destruction department. It is he constantly conducts culling arriving from parts of weapons. And the emergency destruction of millions of trunks is a crime and this is really a cover for theft and sale of weapons.
  17. +3
    24 October 2012 09: 34
    This is definitely not necessary for the homeland. stop
    Seek someone profitable ...
  18. +10
    24 October 2012 09: 37
    -Granddad! And what are you watering beds with cucumbers? They’ll disappear!
    - Let them disappear, but the machine gun will not rust!
    (Ukrainian anecdote).
    Before you destroy something, you need to stock up on new ones, and of improved quality. Is there such a guarantee? If not, then what kind of destruction can we talk about? Small arms do not explode from long storage, like bombs, shells, and so on. Someone just needs to make money on this business. Moreover, in two directions at once. 1. In case of "utilization" (they will sell half, and put the money in their pocket) 2. At the expense of the state, they will provide the right people with profitable contracts.
  19. +3
    24 October 2012 09: 41
    The lesson of 1941 should not be repeated!
    Before you throw something away, you need to think, as they say, "measure seven times, cut once"
    1. Sirozha
      +2
      24 October 2012 11: 27
      The bureaucrats think in their pocket, not with their heads and not about the country!
  20. Igor
    -5
    24 October 2012 09: 42
    Dispose or store old small arms in army warehouses?


    It doesn’t matter! They will either slowly dig it or from the warehouses or during disposal.
  21. ded_73
    +7
    24 October 2012 09: 43
    Here, against Russia, it plays the accepted position of selling exclusively the latest weapons. I know firsthand about the interest of so many, especially African armies, Soviet small arms. Ukrainian and Belarusian warehouses are practically empty. There is especially great interest in AKMS, not remakes (there is such a practice to remake AKM into AKMS, in which the stock folds to the left side). The export price for AKM reaches $ 250-270 per unit. It is for the Soviet model. And his absence gives rise to all kinds of "crafts". It's a pity. The African market is still promising.
  22. NUT
    NUT
    +6
    24 October 2012 09: 59
    It is also necessary to utilize urgently those bureaucrats from the Moscow Region who we don’t drink, who serve anyone, but not their Fatherland.
    They are trying to convince us of the benefits and expediency in the middle of winter to throw solid but morally obsolete boots and walk barefoot through slush, frost, waiting for new design decisions.
    This is not an explosion, but the complete destruction, even of the slightest of our ability to defend.
    And there are a lot of examples of this, starting with the purchase of weapons from a potential adversary, ending with the destruction of high-class, combat-ready military units, equipment and weapons. The clearest example of this is the nuclear submarine "Shark" which today, whatever they say, has no equal, but our boats were killed not in a mortal battle for the Motherland, but betrayed by corrupt high ranks.
    Some kind of "strategist" gave out that if you disable all the electronics, and to do this (he believes) is not very difficult, then those who have preserved "three-line" and "thirty-four" will become the winners ...
  23. Larus
    +3
    24 October 2012 10: 00
    Explain to me how in the warehouses where small arms are stored (probably in the drawers all the same), it can work out its resource ???? Or is it a fashion now that went so far as to disarm the army by yourself, and then do nothing it didn’t happen. Indeed, in the event of any major conflict it turns out that again there will not be enough weapons for everyone, at least one that was made 30 years ago.
    1. +1
      24 October 2012 17: 06
      but like that, according to the Ministry of Defense, weapons lying in a drawer continue to spend their resources, probably shoot at night. and weapons produced in the 80's are superior in quality to what they produce now
  24. +13
    24 October 2012 10: 12
    A sad and sad story repeating in Russia with a certain frequency ...... A leader (minister, marshal) arrives who begins to create from his foolishness - to re-melt Berdanki. 1910 ........., warehouses on the western border. 1939 ......, airplanes and guns are not needed. 1962 ......., take off missiles from duty and saw them. 1988 .... And now another pi..da non-combatant is trying to give Russia a good perspective, and maybe a real opportunity, in the event of a military conflict, to fight with shotguns from a home safe and bottles of cops. And he will look at it from London by the Air Force or YouTube. good
    1. +1
      24 October 2012 14: 06
      In 1993, he went on guard for the protection of aircraft with his 2-barrel and only by May 1994 received personal weapons.
  25. Penek
    +6
    24 October 2012 10: 15
    JonnyT is right - this is another "vacuum cleaner" for the development of budgetary funds, it does not smell of any concern about defense capability. It is hard to believe that 4 million barrels are so worn out that they cannot be restored - we have not used so many, including Afghan. in the early 80s, our green brothers carried both PPSh and Mauser rifles - someone kept all this rarity in warehouses for 40 years.
    In Soviet times, the kink of the fire translator was not the reason for the transfer to the 5th category; AK was sent for overhaul to the army or district bases, where all the worn out iron changed, and then for storage.
  26. +7
    24 October 2012 10: 21
    Lord! HOW can you dispose of such masterpieces as SKS-45 and AK arr. 1947, many of which were practically never used !? SCS, in my opinion, should be preserved forever as a ceremonial weapon of honor guards, as a work of weapons art! .. Until recently, there were a lot of Mosin carbines and other old, but reliable models, to which modern cartridges are applicable . Well, they remembered the sad example of General Sukhomlinov ...
    1. 0
      24 October 2012 17: 09
      The answer may be one - sell it to the people. SCSs in the USA are sold for 200-1000 bucks, but they charge it to us impossibly
  27. DIMS
    +5
    24 October 2012 10: 32
    This question cannot be asked so clearly. Weapons stored in warehouses are of different quality.
    The barrels "killed" during use or due to improper storage must be disposed of, it makes no sense to overhaul them. Is that to make an exception for machine guns PK, NSVS, DShK.
    Normal trunks are worth keeping. Moreover, their disposal does not pay off.

    I remember communicating with one officer from the arsenal, he told how the drafts were disposed of. They simply broke it and sent it for re-melting. It would be far more prudent to sell collectors who have no historical value abroad, and to preserve award and personal (there were such) ones. But no, they disposed of it all and lost money.
    On the other hand, they sold the SCS consignment to the USA. Having earned a lot of money, we were able to hold out in the post-default period, paying wages to workers, when everyone in the Moscow Region was aground until the end of December.
  28. +4
    24 October 2012 10: 40
    Built a new one, then break the old one.
  29. itr
    +1
    24 October 2012 10: 42
    Laser! you're right
  30. +2
    24 October 2012 10: 42
    What to twitch and let go lie eating do not ask for trunks that are not shot in bulk in bulk it is not yet known how everything will turn out with remakes, the guy from the army returned to the brigade new AK shit bayonet disposable knife.
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. Sirozha
    0
    24 October 2012 11: 16
    Convert to the possibility of shooting only single and sell to civilians !!! Or don’t even have to redo it, it’s time to instill in people a culture of gun ownership!
  33. +1
    24 October 2012 11: 23
    to distribute to the population and let it be kept) I think everyone will be FOR
  34. Brother Sarych
    +1
    24 October 2012 11: 25
    Of course, to store, if possible, redo something for hunting or civilian, but the bulk must be stored unambiguously!
  35. gorkoxnumx
    0
    24 October 2012 11: 32
    The stock of AK series machines should be enough for 20 years, this is a strategic reserve !!!
  36. +3
    24 October 2012 11: 33
    Sell ​​to the public! I would take one AK for myself, well, for the wife of SVD, otherwise she sees poorly.
  37. Ahmar
    0
    24 October 2012 11: 44
    damn redo what is possible for civilian (hunting) weapons and sell to the population, passing along the necessary law on weapons!
  38. grizzlir
    +1
    24 October 2012 12: 15
    I remember that in the era of perestroika, thousands of obsolete tanks were massively launched under the cutter. The argument was iron, but why do we need them, there are too many of them. Yes, and a new model of the tank is on the way, we will soon put the T-72 on conservation. It’s possible, of course, to use dynamic armor on to supply the old people and modernize by the little things, but still they are inferior to their foreign counterparts, but we are not at war with the partisans in the future war. For a tanker it was like a knife to the heart.And then there was Chechnya.
  39. +3
    24 October 2012 12: 18
    Disposal must not be allowed.
    There will be two options
    1 First write off then steal.
    2 First they steal then write off.
    Today "fires" are being arranged. But to be afraid that sooner or later they will burn. For our officials, "utilization" is a platinum bottom.
    1. Lucky
      +3
      24 October 2012 13: 06
      I agree with you, most likely they are already stolen, they just need to be written off somehow!
  40. +4
    24 October 2012 12: 43
    I’m becoming more and more convinced that our Ministry of Defense is engaged in a direct undermining of the country's defense capabilities, and not its strengthening!
    Any step, such as
    1. purchase of imported equipment from NATO countries, while depriving our defense industry of orders .. (by the way, which they can stupidly disconnect from the satellite at the right time, remember Hussein with his Mirages)
    2. Periodic explosions of weapons depots, as I doubt such coincidences that they themselves began to explode ..
    3. Disposal of weapons which for another 30 years will be at least relevant ..
    4 But what about corruption, so generally the people already have the impression that Moscow Region and corruption are 2 inextricable concepts ..

    For example, Syria can only hold on due to the large number of weapons in warehouses and the creation of people's militias from people who have lost their relatives .. They appreciate the Union’s military tradition and our weapons, which can’t be said about ourselves .. And our minister seems to be doing work on errors, on the topic of what needs to be done so that the Syrian (Libyan) scenario rolls in Russia ..
  41. Hoosiberian
    +8
    24 October 2012 13: 01
    To dispose of Soviet-made AK, for me, this is how to dispose of gold. The same associations.
    Let them lie, do not ask. Serious kneading will begin, mobilization is the very weapon for non-professionals.
    1. +5
      24 October 2012 13: 26
      Golden words - PLUS! good hi
      1. Hoosiberian
        0
        24 October 2012 13: 30
        feel Thank you of course ...)) I took it. hi
        1. +3
          24 October 2012 15: 54
          I would like to add that, for example, the SVD rifles of the first series were made from steel of very high quality, increased manufacturing accuracy and impeccable processing of the barrel bore. The accuracy of the battle of the SVD, released in the 60s, was often higher than that of non-automatic, magazine rifles. Here, and the "old" weapon, the same can be said about the quality of the AK. It has already been said above that the stock does not hold a pocket, the disposal of small arms is a crime. As for a related topic - disposal of ammunition, sorry, but it would be better, bastards, they carried out more live firing.
          1. Hoosiberian
            +1
            24 October 2012 16: 02
            So here I am about the same. The Soviet quality of small arms production is excellent, and if the barrels are still not fired, "in oil," then it is generally a crime to dispose of such wealth ...
  42. +1
    24 October 2012 13: 27
    can not be disposed of !!! in extreme cases, you can sell in America - there, against the backdrop of arming the US Department of Homeland Security, the population is also actively arming itself:
    http://www.bestguns.ru/article.php?article=179643&asearch=
  43. 0
    24 October 2012 13: 30
    Quote: Hoosiberian
    Let them lie, do not ask.

    I fully support.
    According to the experience of ammunition disposal, I think it’s better not to touch it more lively, but about distributing it to the people, because in general, wars of a regional scale may begin, the West is not an example to us.
    1. 0
      24 October 2012 17: 45
      Weapons for the population are like an atomic bomb for a state. everyone knows that it is but no one uses
  44. +3
    24 October 2012 13: 37
    Well, lie to yourself and let them be stored. The USSR entered the Second World War with huge stocks of weapons, but by 1942 there weren’t even enough rifles.
    Disposal, as always, will lead to the destruction of rare weapons, to the ability to write off stolen goods, to the ability to steal, to undermine the mob. of opportunities.
    Someone does not argue that if there is a war, it will not be like the Second World War. But the Chechen war showed that: the DShK, the Mosinka, the Shmayser (MR-40), the TT, and the PPSh did not lose their combat capabilities, and in some cases they showed themselves better than the most modern small arms.
    Therefore, I believe it is too early to write off and destroy "pensioners" for the sake of a controversial one-time benefit.
    Although what we are discussing here DOES NOT SOLVE ANYTHING, how Serdyukov decided so and will deeply crap him on the opinion of both ours and the current armed forces.
    "Loot" is everything. Over the past 50 years - this is the most incompetent mo and the most despised by all those associated with the Armed Forces! am
    IT IS VERY SORRY THAT GDP DOESN’T WANT TO HEAR AND SEE THE PROCESS OF DESTROYING THE COUNTRY'S ABILITY WITH THIS DIGGER * OM
    1. +2
      24 October 2012 21: 25
      Quote: d.gksueyjd
      IT IS VERY SORRY THAT GDP DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR AND SEE THE PROCESS

      Yes, he fucks your pity.
  45. SIT
    +4
    24 October 2012 13: 44
    While the army is nothing new, but if a person knows how to shoot, then he can shoot from anything. If now with the available weapons we begin normal small arms training with everyone who is armed with a machine gun as a personal weapon, will these stockpiles be enough? These reserves are enough if the fighters will shoot as we have taken 2-3 times for service, of which one 3 rounds before taking the Oath.
    1. I-16M
      0
      24 October 2012 13: 52
      good Golden words
  46. I-16M
    +1
    24 October 2012 13: 45
    30 years and re-melting? Did I miss anything? Are we moving on to Star Wars blasters? It would be interesting to ask the Minister of Defense, and how many times does Kalashnikov 2012 exceed the 1980 AK?
  47. +1
    24 October 2012 13: 49
    From February 15 2007 - Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation.
    President Vladimir Putin explained the meaning of such a personnel decision by the fact that in the context of the development and re-equipment of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, associated with the expenditure of "huge budgetary funds," "you need a person with experience in the field of economics and finance"
    Graduated from the Leningrad Institute of Soviet Trade (1984 year),
    He graduated from the Law Faculty of St. Petersburg State University (2001 year).
    Candidate of Economic Sciences. (2000 year)
    Thesis on the topic "The concept and system organization of the formation of consumer-oriented business structures"
    Doctor of Economics (2006 year)
    Thesis on the topic: "Formation and implementation of the tax policy of modern Russia"
    Courses of the Military Academy of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (2007 year)
    What defensiveness can one speak after that ?!
    1. 0
      24 October 2012 16: 32
      Quote: Mishael
      associated with the expenditure of "huge budget funds", "you need a person with experience in the field of economics and finance"

      Correctly for these purposes it was even better to appoint Berezovsky and not Serdyukov. At least he does not hide his attitude towards the Russian Federation. and this "sent Cossack"
      1. 0
        24 October 2012 17: 14
        Berezovsky can’t. he’s an army like an aeroflot to the West, he’ll drag safes to Switzerland
  48. +1
    24 October 2012 14: 06
    Before disposing or storing, you need to decide which cartridge we will use. If the weapon has worked, you can sell abroad or under the press. New to store after shooting. Well, respectively, next to store a suitable cartridge.
    1. +1
      24 October 2012 20: 50
      Great comment !!! It’s high time to introduce the NATO cartridge so that the Yankees do not bother when they come to our warehouses and realize that they do not need 7,62! DARKNESS, what's going on !!!
  49. +2
    24 October 2012 14: 09
    It's time to turn to GDP, I propose to write an open letter on the removal of Serdyukov from the post of Mo RF
  50. +2
    24 October 2012 14: 52
    It’s all right to dispose of, and Syria will win the tender for disposal, just dispose of ATGMs, MANPADS, grenade launchers, and well on through the list.
  51. Nechai
    +5
    24 October 2012 15: 31
    Quote: kosmos84
    - STOCK J0PU IS NOT IBET = SO ACCURATE

    The supply of corman is not a burden
    and he doesn't ask for money.
    Monk nun not la-la,
    and wears crap in his trouser leg.
    Quote: Karlsonn
    In case of a nuclear war, we even store steam locomotives for conservation,

    That's all in the past. They sold them for scrap metal. And for a couple of decades now, drivers have not taken the topic of designing and operating steam locomotives when taking advanced training exams. And most of them no longer know in practice what kind of animal this is...
    Quote: Hoosiberian
    A serious mess will begin, mobilization is the very weapon for non-professionals.

    So this is exactly why they decided to recycle it. So that there was NOTHING to equip non-pros with. Look, the entire system of the country’s mobilization power is being systematically destroyed:
    - the chain of destination, notification, collection, delivery to the military unit by the district military registration and enlistment offices has been screwed up. Are military units capable of receiving mobilization reinforcements? There are clothing items, etc. property and weapons, equipment? The frames and carded parts were eliminated.
    - arsenals and weapons depots are being blown up at an accelerated pace. Now the shooter will be multiplied by zero.
    The goal - not the possibility of reforming the deployment of the army, is depicted in all its "glory" ...
  52. Region65
    +1
    24 October 2012 16: 13
    Should we dispose of or store old small arms in army warehouses? sell it to me! three rubles per kilogram! I'll take it!!!!!)))))
    1. +2
      24 October 2012 17: 03
      Quote: Region65
      sell it to me! three rubles per kilogram! I'll take it!!!!!)))))

      at this price, I’ll come by Kamaz, if they provide ammunition, I’ll leave right now in a convoy, dictate the address hi .
  53. 0
    24 October 2012 16: 25
    Nowadays a “tiger” costs about 10 million bucks, but then they sawed it out of desperation, but why now? There is not a single Katyusha left, only post-war replicas, etc. If only some of the weapons and equipment of the Second World War had been preserved, there would have been enough money to re-equip the Armed Forces with modern weapons and equipment!
    “Doing the same rake” as often as possible is no longer stupidity—it’s sabotage.
  54. 0
    24 October 2012 17: 05
    It’s scary to think with the current situation in the world, if tomorrow I need to defend my home and they tell me sorry, friend, the weapons were disposed of only for the needs of the army, I will feel sad. I don’t know how reliable the film Enemy at the Gates is, but when at the beginning of the film the recruits are sent into an attack with one rifle and ten rounds of ammunition between them, it becomes creepy
    1. phantom359
      +2
      24 October 2012 17: 21
      Slevinst, Stop looking at all this crap, like the enemy is at the gate. In Stalingrad there were no problems with weapons and ammunition, especially in the final phase.
      1. 0
        24 October 2012 23: 08
        Quote: phantom359
        Stop watching crap

        Quote: phantom359
        Stop watching crap

        This is not crap, but reality, even in 1943 there was a catastrophic shortage of weapons and ammunition.
    2. dimanf
      +3
      24 October 2012 18: 13
      Quote: Slevinst

      It’s scary to think with the current situation in the world if tomorrow you need to defend your home


      the authorities are afraid. that these weapons will be directed against them.
  55. phantom359
    +1
    24 October 2012 17: 19
    Have you tried selling? ))). This product has always been in demand.
  56. Nechai
    +1
    24 October 2012 17: 23
    Quote: d.gksueyjd
    . We would have preserved at least some of the weapons and equipment of the Second World War

    In ancient times, not only WWII rifles were stored, but also armored personnel carriers. In the Komsomolsk-on-Amur region, an entire Tank Army mothballed in the “cocoon” type was available...
  57. 0
    24 October 2012 17: 52
    phantom359,
    I don't think movies like this are crap. an excellent feature film, only those who have complaints about historical truth about feature films may have complaints about documentaries, that’s a different matter. but the meaning was in a situation where there is a war and there are more soldiers than weapons. this is not acceptable
    1. phantom359
      0
      24 October 2012 18: 20
      Slevinst, well, to each his own. I have a different attitude towards this film. An ordinary movie for Americans. It is probably in their blood to show our people as monsters and monsters, especially, I ask you to draw your attention to that. how Russian soldiers relax - they fart under a lit lighter. This invention is purely American, so it doesn’t need to be taken from a sore head to a healthy one. This is just one example. I won’t cite others, as for the barrier detachments, it’s pure crap, regular units went into battle, not a penal battalion, so that’s a bummer.
  58. +2
    24 October 2012 17: 58
    Where does recycling begin in our country... first of all, they cut up and send to the oven the newest and most modern... and leave the rot. Remember... how, currying favor with the Americans, they cut up the newest strategic aircraft and missiles... like peace to the world. It’s the same now. Such a rush to make such decisions looks like an attempt to hide thefts in warehouses. Everyone remembers the story when a man with boxes bought their contents... machines sent for disposal.
  59. -1
    24 October 2012 18: 56
    phantom359,
    this is a feature film, the word feature means fiction and a flight of fancy, even if it is based on real events, if you want to find out the truth, delve into the documents, study it yourself, compare facts and conjectures, and it’s not a fact that you will find out the truth as it was, but if you want to relax, look. film, whatever one may say, the most spectacular films are made in Hollywood
    1. +1
      24 October 2012 19: 36
      For idiots, it's just a "feature film".
      This is anti-Russian propaganda created by our enemies, they will destroy us if (or when) they can.
    2. +1
      24 October 2012 22: 15
      Quote: Slevinst
      this is a fictional film, the word artistic means fiction and a flight of fancy

      My grandfather really didn’t like to talk about the war, he fought from the first day until the capture of Konigsberg, but he simply adored the film “Only Old Men Go to Battle” and if he saw it on a television program, he prepared to watch it in a week, he was also not indifferent to Stirlitz, I don’t even want to imagine how he would react to such a moral slap as the film “Enemy at the Gates,” where our ancestors are shown as voiceless and weak-willed cattle who are driven to slaughter like cannon fodder.

      Quote: Slevinst
      Whatever one may say, the most spectacular films are made in Hollywood

      talk nonsense, watch the film epic "Liberation" Malinovsky, by personal order, allocated 100 tanks for filming in the background, 10 Tigers and 8 Panthers were made in Lvov, a combined regiment participated in the filming, weapons and uniforms for which were lifted from long-term storage warehouses, the last part was filmed in Berlin where the Germans gave up an entire central area for filming, where ours blew up and destroyed during filming, in Moscow they flooded a gateway to recreate the moment of the flooding of the Berlin metro, to simulate the storming of the Reichstag they demolished the Catholic Cathedral, there is still a lot that can be remembered - and all this taking into account the fact that many of the prototypes of the film's characters were alive and advised the filmmakers!
  60. +2
    24 October 2012 20: 46
    Treason to the Motherland!
  61. +2
    24 October 2012 20: 46
    Just to recycle it. Nothing else to do? Hi, they are lying and waiting in the wings!!!
  62. +1
    24 October 2012 20: 58
    It feels like there is a “junk car recycling” program at work. And the goal of the program is not so much recycling as stimulating production. But is it really not clear that these general economic levers should not extend to the defense industry? The meaning is clear: make a machine gun that will fire 1000 rounds instead of 7000 from a Soviet-style machine gun. This is not an area where such stimulation is acceptable. Stimulate the creation of new types of weapons, and my PM 1954 still shoots more accurately than the new Russian ones.
  63. +2
    24 October 2012 21: 21
    Today we are disposing of small arms, tomorrow, under a plausible pretext, they will want to dispose of nuclear weapons. I have a strong suspicion that we are being sold. And Serdyukov’s role in this sale is not the main one.
  64. +2
    24 October 2012 21: 30
    Or maybe there are no weapons in warehouses anymore? And so, the ends are in the water, and I cut it at the same time.
  65. Samovar
    +1
    24 October 2012 21: 34
    There is a rather remarkable expert opinion, which boils down to the fact that reducing the number of military small arms by 4 million is too small a figure.

    Such experts should be impaled!!! IMHO there should be at least 20 million machine guns in warehouses alone so that there is something to arm everyone who can hold a weapon.
  66. 0
    24 October 2012 21: 39
    It’s not clear from the article what they want to dispose of??
    Just barrels lying in storage or something that was used and became unusable and has exhausted its service life!!
    What became scrap metal was not even worth writing about! But here it looks like they want to use outdated samples for metal?
  67. PiP
    +1
    24 October 2012 21: 50
    My opinion is this. If these people in the Moscow Region want good for their country, then: 1) Lobby in the Duma for permission to rifle to any (with restrictions, of course) citizen 2) Start unloading warehouses to factories where they will be limited to seven-auto/single fire (as a result, an increase in the production of these factories) 3) Start producing civilian ammunition for these types of weapons 4) start selling to citizens of your country. If we take into account that the AK-74 MMG costs from 10000 to 15000 rubles, taking into account deactivation (I don’t think that bringing the weapon to a state of single fire is more expensive than deactivation), then you can calculate for yourself what the profit is for the state, not counting any third-party manufacturers, from the production of storage safes to belts and sword belts. Not just one is being killed, hundreds of hundreds of birds with one stone - the warehouses were unloaded, the money was received, the weapons remained in the country, and even with our bureaucracy, money is constantly being brought into the budget and small businesses will also rise. Regarding “we’ll shoot each other” - they shoot, it happens... but as was rightly noted, the main killer is the “kitchen knife” and the car, and if someone wants to kill someone with a firearm, he will take care of the left barrel. In general, there is no need to sell weapons to AFRICA, much less use them for “needles.”
  68. +2
    24 October 2012 22: 07
    During military service, our training company was once sent to warehouses in the city of Darkhan, Mongolian People's Republic, where we sorted out and prepared various small arms for further conservation, including PPSh assault rifles, DP machine guns, etc. To the question: “Why is this junk needed?” And the year was 83, the ensign from the warehouse said, sons, it still kills. And it’s true, it was enough to load any barrel and fire a shot, the enemy’s corpse was guaranteed. This relates to the question of whether it is necessary to store a bunch of barrels in warehouses. If the storage rules are observed, a weapon is never superfluous if it can shoot, i.e. fulfill the main purpose of destroying enemy personnel.
  69. +1
    24 October 2012 22: 08
    Everything here is extremely simple. First, Taburetkin motivates the need to dispose of supposedly “junk things.” And then he will carry out this recycling at a controlled enterprise for budget money. Moreover, it’s enough imagination to sell these supposedly recycled guns to the people.
  70. +1
    24 October 2012 22: 16
    Another Russian foolishness - first they will destroy it and dispose of it, and then it will turn out that there is nothing new (as with the Mace). Have you tried selling it at least cheaply? With zero gain... All savings... And then the buyer will need cartridges... But I doubt the possibility of an adequate solution... The post-Soviet leadership of Russia has proven itself to be incompetent in all matters...
  71. +1
    24 October 2012 22: 57
    On the parallel thread about the Su-17, there is an example of how such a “disposal” of combat aircraft ended. During Chechnya-1, they missed it - and the cars were already in the cemetery, there was nothing to fight with.
  72. 0
    24 October 2012 23: 19
    Why recycle? Recently it has become fashionable to purchase full-scale models. Drill a few holes in the barrel and sell it; many will be happy to buy it. Yes, I would buy it myself if it weren’t too expensive. And you don’t have to bear disposal costs. The thing is, I don’t think that we have stupid officials in the ministry, rather they are too smart-ass; under the guise of recycling, quite suitable guns can be sold to the outside, and the money goes into your own pocket. Otherwise, where did these fat-assed staff officers get their luxurious mansions and dachas?
    1. 0
      25 October 2012 16: 06
      Quote: bistrov.
      under the guise of recycling, completely usable barrels can be sold externally, and the money goes into your pocket.

      No one will be involved in this matter!!! Because in an instant you can lose both mansions and dachas. See. Article 226 of the Criminal Code from 7 and above. Staff officers have many other ways to make money that are not related to criminal law.
  73. 0
    24 October 2012 23: 42
    Setrac,
    Karlsonn,
    Maybe this is propaganda, the question is for whom? Why then is Zaitsev such a great sniper in this film? He’s Russian, and far from being the best sniper of the Second World War, just the most famous. The argument makes no sense, I’m a patriot, but I respect everyone who deserves it
  74. georg737577
    +1
    25 October 2012 00: 31
    I agree with the opinion of the majority on the site - recycling cannot be carried out until; 1 - the existing “obsolete” weapon is fully equipped with standard ammunition. 2 - each recycled weapon is replaced with a new one that meets “modern requirements.” 3 - I very much doubt that the quality of execution of a modern “barrel” will be comparable to the quality of “morally obsolete” ones. Including Mosin rifles. Summary - another scam by bureaucratic degenerates from the Moscow Region. They shouldn't fight...
  75. 0
    25 October 2012 01: 11
    Quote: vylvyn
    Do we have an army of 50 million people to organize a real defense in depth for the entire country?

    I support you one hundred percent! But, I think, in the event of a global threat, there will be people, even if not 50 million, but 20-30 for sure! And the old weapons would be useful precisely for such a militia! It is utter stupidity to destroy the trunks. It is quite possible to build bunkers somewhere in the forests in case of guerrilla warfare.
  76. 0
    25 October 2012 05: 35
    According to the most pessimistic estimates, we have a reserve of 30 million. people And 17 million. trunks despite the fact that we will lose some territories, somewhere there will be an excessive concentration of evacuated reservists - this is only 35% of the required number
  77. +3
    25 October 2012 09: 09
    Well, yes! Recycle?
    One WWII participant said:
    - Before the war, we sang “... and from Moscow to the British seas.” They were called up in the fall of 41, somehow quickly trained and into battle. We loved “troikas”, we also ran in trios - the first one runs with a rifle, the second one follows without a rifle, the third one I wait for the second one with a rifle to fall.

    Apparently, we are talking here not about the problem of excess accumulation (“there is never too much oil”), but about the need for new “cuts” - after all, the mobilization reserve will need to be restored! And therefore, demand new purchases, etc. - Yes, it was there and let it lie, it is necessary to dispose of it in proportion to the rearmament with new types.
    1. -1
      25 October 2012 11: 09
      Quote: VadimSt
      We loved “troikas”, we also ran in troikas - the first one runs with a rifle, the second one follows without a rifle, the third one I wait for the second one with a rifle to fall

      Don’t tell me any tall tales, really, but we always had enough rifles; more than 12 million of them were produced during the war years. And it never happened that a fighter without a rifle went on the attack. All these rumors, anecdotes, fables were composed and disseminated by the CIA, for this there was a whole department that did just that.
      1. 0
        25 October 2012 13: 35
        You are fundamentally wrong, THIS IS THE REALITY of that time because most of the warehouses were located in the western districts and were captured by the Nazis a few months later. Cases of arming with rifles only ml.com composition, the rest were given grenades at best at the end of 41 are real, especially in hastily formed units. This is history and there is no escape from it.
        1. dom.lazar
          0
          26 October 2012 02: 38
          yes these are all fairy tales
          yes, they could have armed them not with Mosins but with Arisaks or Mausers - but all these attacks when one is running with a rifle and the second is waiting for him to be killed is on the conscience of pseudo-veterans - singing like a nightingale about their exploits
          1. Alex 241
            0
            26 October 2012 02: 41
            Don’t talk about veterans like that, even if this happened in at least one battle, this is not a reason to criticize everyone. They broke Hitler’s back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Isn’t this not a feat?
            1. 0
              26 October 2012 12: 54
              I THINK that those who broke the back of the fascist did not come up with such false tales about the Red Army.
  78. 0
    25 October 2012 09: 47
    Setrac, here is your answer about the truth from
    VadimSt,
    1. -1
      25 October 2012 14: 51
      I’m not a master of information warfare and I can’t explain everything, but I reject enemy propaganda because it is enemy and I don’t expect anything good from enemies, the myth about one rifle for three is the same lie as the myth about 20000 tanks, the myth about overwhelming enemies with corpses, the myth about the numerical superiority of the USSR over the Third Reich, the myth about General Frost... there are still myths, should I continue?
  79. NickitaDembelnulsa
    0
    25 October 2012 12: 42
    Gaddafi, in Libya, kept a lot of weapons, but they were useful, only against himself...
  80. +1
    25 October 2012 13: 02
    The bastards will be crazy that this entire arsenal will fall into the hands of citizens. And in the event of a war with an external aggressor, they already have a plan ready - to surrender as quickly as possible, bargaining for personal leniency, and the people... yes x... let them get out of it as they wish.
  81. cool.ya-nikola
    +1
    25 October 2012 13: 35
    I apologize for being a little off topic, but perhaps this is interesting:
    Quote: DEfindER
    Well, about corruption, in general, people already have the impression that the Ministry of Defense and corruption are 2 inseparable concepts..


    The Main Military Investigation Department of the Investigative Committee of Russia initiated five criminal cases on facts of fraud in the sale of real estate, land plots and shares owned by Oboronservis OJSC, controlled by the Ministry of Defense, official representative of the Russian Investigative Committee Vladimir Markin told ITAR-TASS.


    25 October 2012
  82. mazdie
    0
    25 October 2012 23: 19
    My opinion:
    1. A weapon that has not been fired is a new weapon!
    2. Weapons that have exhausted their resource are old weapons!
    3. Modern weapons - weapons that meet modern requirements!
    4. Before melting, create a new, more perfect one (in the same quantity)
    5. Required number = number of combat-ready fighters multiplied by 1.5
    IHMO
  83. 0
    27 June 2018 17: 32
    Just store it! I suspect that everything will come in handy, unfortunately. They won’t let us die our own death, we’ll have to fight back.