Military Review

It is reported about secret negotiations between Kyiv and Washington on the supply of F-16 fighters and Patriot air defense systems

101
It is reported about secret negotiations between Kyiv and Washington on the supply of F-16 fighters and Patriot air defense systems

The United States has officially refused to supply Ukraine with medium and long-range fighters and anti-aircraft systems, but negotiations on their supply are ongoing and quite active. According to Politico, Washington does not exclude the supply of combat aviation and air defense systems in the medium term.


Kyiv has stopped publicly demanding from Western countries, primarily from the United States, the supply of fighters and air defense systems capable of closing the sky for Russian aircraft that cause great damage to the Armed Forces of Ukraine. However, the Zelensky regime and Pentagon officials are secretly negotiating the transfer or purchase of F-16 fighter jets and Patriot anti-aircraft systems, as well as Gray Eagle drones, by Ukraine. It is not known at what stage the negotiations are, but judging by the publications of the Western press, there is no talk of a possible transfer of these weapons so far.

According to Politico, Zelensky's emissaries have now officially moved on to discussing the supply of weapons that are urgently needed for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which are already supplied by the United States, but in "insufficient for victory" quantities. We are talking here about artillery systems, including self-propelled howitzers, MLRS systems such as HIMARS, as well as ammunition for them, including long-range missiles such as ATAKMS. All talk about the supply of aviation and air defense systems is taken out of the scope of official requests.

The Pentagon confirmed the discussion of the likely supply of aircraft and air defense systems to Ukraine, but stated that this is a matter of the medium term, at present Washington is focusing on the supply of weapons "necessary for victory" to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and aviation and air defense systems are not included in them. The Americans fear that the supply of these weapons to Kyiv will be the crossing of the red line, which Russia has repeatedly warned about.
101 comment
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  1. Maz
    Maz 18 September 2022 10: 41
    -3
    Their brains, for their stupid heads, are never supplied from the USA. Smart Americans send pieces of iron. And what for insane brains? Weapons in their hands, let them ruin themselves.
    1. Cheshire
      Cheshire 18 September 2022 11: 28
      +2
      Here the pieces of iron will not be trusted by the stupid, it is expensive, and the image will suffer hard. They will be based in Poland or Romania, and the local ones will be used as jump airfields. And if infa leaked, then everything is on the ointment and most likely will begin in the near future. Always after the news about the impossibility of deliveries comes the news about the deliveries. hi
      1. SKVichyakow
        SKVichyakow 18 September 2022 11: 48
        +1
        Quote: Cheshire
        image will be severely damaged.

        This is not the only reason why the West does not supply them with new weapons. Another fear of falling into the hands of Russia.
        1. Cheshire
          Cheshire 18 September 2022 13: 53
          0
          The F-16 entered service in 1978. New technologies that we currently do not own are not expected there. In my opinion, never new weapons. At the moment they are trying to sell them, including India. When the death of falcons begins, the price of weapons will fall, and ... Well, you understand. hi
          According to this logic, only Americans will fly on 404, they will not let the crooked hands.
          1. bayard
            bayard 18 September 2022 16: 59
            0
            Quote: Cheshire
            According to this logic, only Americans will fly on 404, they will not let the crooked hands.

            They are simply preparing pilots, so that not only take-off without landing. And they are also preparing Afghan pilots for the Armed Forces of Ukraine and, possibly, pilots of PMCs. I think the planes will still appear, but only when the owners decide.
            1. Cheshire
              Cheshire 18 September 2022 17: 48
              -2
              I don’t see the point in disposing of the f-16 in 404, it’s possible in the UWB. The meaning appears if the territory 404 is used as a weapons test site, which is successfully done. Testers usually work most effectively with equipment, ukram does not shine - there is no raid and little experience. They can only give the natives a plane to wash, under supervision ... hi
              1. bayard
                bayard 18 September 2022 18: 18
                +1
                The meaning of the war in Ukraine is not in Ukraine and not even in the war, it is a tool for solving global issues of the world order. The coup in / on was also carried out on the eve of Ukraine's entry into the CU and, in the future, into the Eurasian Union.
                The United States needs a war of attrition for Russia and the EU, the elimination of competitors to restart its own economy and for the future weakening of China before sorting it out. A quick victory over Russia is impossible, but they consider it possible to blow up the Russian Federation with internal protests and reverse the coup. And break all upcoming integration processes.
                but at the same time remain "out of the way".
                And they will eventually deliver aircraft equipment (say, by spring). And air defense systems too. But then, when the Sumerian pilots, aircraft technicians and calculations of the air defense system will be retrained and will be ready for combat use.
                And they need a war for at least another year and a half, so that the EU is bent completely.
                1. Osipov9391
                  Osipov9391 19 September 2022 00: 03
                  -1
                  And on the Kharkov break they write that the latest T-90M tanks were captured, with a bunch of secret equipment, a map and documents in red folders ...
                  How so ?
                  It looks like they were just not refueled once they were being dragged in tow.
                  And also radio stations, GLONASS receivers, well, in general, I won’t go any further.
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 19 September 2022 02: 03
                    +1
                    Quote: Osipov9391
                    newest T-90M tanks captured

                    Well, this is not the first time, there have been before. The question is how intact the former ones got.
                    I know about the rest, but this is a war, it happens on it. They missed the concentration of forces - they got a lesson.
                    War is like chess - you ate my horse, I took your tour from you. And the final is still far away.
    2. gansales
      gansales 18 September 2022 11: 34
      -7
      Quote: Maz
      Their brains, for their stupid heads, are never supplied from the USA. Smart Americans send pieces of iron. And what for insane brains?

      It's easier to manage these ..! They fooled at first, set them on pointing out who their enemy is in their troubles .. They handed over weapons and go ahead !!!
      Quote: Maz
      Weapons in their hands, let them ruin themselves.

      They dispose of them and very well .. Who is there for the new one?
  2. Victor_B
    Victor_B 18 September 2022 10: 41
    0
    Kiev stopped publicly demanding from Western countries, primarily from the United States, the supply of fighters and air defense systems capable of closing the sky for Russian aircraft that cause great damage to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    Oh, those "secret" negotiations!
    Now he asks humbly!
    It's not mange sis jur...
    1. Nexcom
      Nexcom 18 September 2022 10: 45
      +3
      The main thing is to smear everything in a circle with a "secret". What if the enemy gets scared?
    2. Tusv
      Tusv 18 September 2022 11: 08
      +1
      Quote: Victor_B
      Oh, those "secret" negotiations!

      Yes, an open secret. In half a year, it is really possible to organize the release of cadets for takeoff and landing, and the United States can prepare hundreds of falconers from long-term storage warehouses. So we can expect the F-16 tomorrow. Well, come to an agreement. All airfields must be plowed with tactical nuclear weapons. Enough work for air defense
      1. impostor
        impostor 18 September 2022 11: 16
        +3
        Already yesterday, the Persians must have Iskander so that mattresses in Iraq and Syria begin bloody diarrhea
        1. Tusv
          Tusv 18 September 2022 11: 28
          +3
          Quote: impostor
          Already yesterday, the Persians must have Iskander so that mattresses in Iraq and Syria begin bloody diarrhea

          There is such a thing as an export Iskander. We even deliver. Only 250 range and limited to one missile. Will not reach Israel
          1. impostor
            impostor 18 September 2022 11: 30
            +3
            There would be political will, and the techies would set it up - and fly to whatever distance is needed, the same 250 for At-Tanf for the eyes and ears
            1. Tusv
              Tusv 18 September 2022 11: 38
              +2
              Quote: impostor
              There would be political will, and the techies would set it up - and it would fly to whatever distance you need

              While there is no such will, because natural weapons should be at least twice as powerful, we are temporarily closing the issue
          2. Nexcom
            Nexcom 18 September 2022 11: 34
            +7
            Arabs and Persians are diligent. On hand, they are ready to drag the installation so that Israel gets it. They "love" Israel with every fiber of their soul
            1. impostor
              impostor 18 September 2022 11: 36
              +6
              hi It is important for us that they "love" the Yankees no less
              1. Nexcom
                Nexcom 18 September 2022 11: 38
                +5
                It's true. This is a very useful feature for us. hi
            2. Tusv
              Tusv 18 September 2022 13: 57
              +1
              Quote: Nexcom
              Arabs and Persians are diligent. We are ready to drag the installation on our hands so that Israel gets it

              There was a case when Ours diligently dragged launchers on long cables closer to the Israeli border and shot them down on takeoff. Not news. How did it all end? Visa-free for Ukrainian and Russian citizens
          3. poquello
            poquello 18 September 2022 11: 49
            +2
            Quote: Tusv
            Only 250 range and limited to one missile. Will not reach Israel

            how much does it take to fly?
            1. Tusv
              Tusv 18 September 2022 13: 25
              0
              Quote: poquello
              how much does it take to fly?

              How many nanos, so many nunos. Open Yandex maps, turn on the ruler and see. My services are expensive 2100 per hour, on weekends 4200. I would have enough for cognac (I don’t recognize whiskey)
              1. poquello
                poquello 18 September 2022 13: 41
                0
                Quote: Tusv
                Quote: poquello
                how much does it take to fly?

                How many nanos, so many nunos.

                voot, but say it won’t fly, it will fly, IMHO the problem is that when it doesn’t fly, it won’t fly
                1. Tusv
                  Tusv 18 September 2022 13: 51
                  +1
                  Quote: poquello
                  will not be

                  That's why your humble servant from the air defense, so that it does not fly. And so, at the expense of Iran. We have nothing to do with it. North Korea leaked all technologies bully
        2. Negro
          Negro 18 September 2022 13: 14
          +4
          Quote: impostor
          bloody diarrhea in Iraq and Syria

          In fact, the Jews are already working so that no one has such thoughts. This is not Biden for you, they will not chew snot.
      2. Cheshire
        Cheshire 18 September 2022 11: 32
        -2
        Quote: Tusv
        All airfields must be plowed with tactical nuclear weapons.

        Well, no one canceled tanker planes and additional tanks, refueled at the border and set off. It is not worth hastily hammering airfields, you will have to do it yourself. Well, radiation is such a thing ...
        1. SpbGenn
          SpbGenn 18 September 2022 14: 28
          -1
          Fill up all the RFPs of Ukraine with depleted uranium!!
          1. Cheshire
            Cheshire 18 September 2022 17: 42
            0
            What for? To mine uranium, process it, deliver it, and then get hooked on cancer ourselves?
          2. VSO-396
            VSO-396 19 September 2022 00: 19
            0
            Quote: SpbGenn
            Fill up all the RFPs of Ukraine with depleted uranium!!

            What is it like? And finally, it resembles the cries of "patriots" in February 1904: "We will throw hats on Japan!" Threw? Here and now. The trouble is that such "patriots" and generals wear epaulettes. So Kharkov was repeated after 80 years.
        2. Osipov9391
          Osipov9391 19 September 2022 00: 10
          0
          The use of nuclear weapons against Ukraine will immediately cause the latter to have one - NATO will transfer several B61 bombs for the aircraft discussed in the article.
          They will tell Ukraine similar goals (for example, the accumulation of our troops in Kherson and Donbass) and they will use them there - their hand will not waver.
          After all, against the backdrop of the shelling of the ZNPP, the conclusions were drawn by those who think.
    3. Russian
      Russian 18 September 2022 11: 15
      +7
      Come on, how many of these red lines have we already indicated? So far, there are no serious consequences for countries that are actively supplying weapons to Ukraine. The maximum we could do was to put the turbines for the Nord Stream under repair. So if the Americans put these planes and air defense systems there, they won’t, they are unlikely to take our "threats" seriously. We can’t even scare the Baltics, they constantly mix us with slops, and then, after all, the hegemon, who has in his hands the eggs of half of our bureaucrats (accounts abroad, children study there, real estate, and so on)
    4. novel66
      novel66 18 September 2022 12: 02
      0
      It's not mange sis jur...

      the quote is not complete!
    5. Lionnvrsk
      Lionnvrsk 18 September 2022 12: 37
      +1
      Quote: Victor_B
      It's not mange sis jur...

      PA sis jury yes
  3. Alexga
    Alexga 18 September 2022 10: 44
    +14
    I have a request to the authors of publications. Please, give a link to the source of information, or at least to the author. Otherwise, the discussion turns into a simple chatter, each commentator begins to invent the very essence of the article.
    1. Comrade I
      Comrade I 18 September 2022 11: 45
      +2
      There are almost never links to news on VO, it's time to get used to it request
    2. Crete 25
      Crete 25 18 September 2022 12: 38
      +1
      Well, in general, no one canceled the PPR, it is now very fashionable.
  4. dauria
    dauria 18 September 2022 10: 44
    +5
    The Americans fear that the supply of these weapons to Kyiv will be a red line,

    "What are you, a violinist, color blind? You can't distinguish green from orange"
    1. novel66
      novel66 18 September 2022 12: 04
      +3
      but, interestingly, decided - moved! what's next?
  5. sgrabik
    sgrabik 18 September 2022 10: 48
    +2
    We must be prepared for this in advance so that it does not turn out to be an unexpected unpleasant surprise for us.
  6. Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
    Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov 18 September 2022 10: 50
    -4
    Reported secret negotiations between Kyiv and Washington

    ***
    “You can’t hide an awl in a bag” ...
    ***
  7. rocket757
    rocket757 18 September 2022 10: 56
    -1
    It is reported about secret negotiations between Kyiv and Washington on the supply of F-16 fighters and Patriot air defense systems
    . Serious expenses, with a high probability that everything will be in vain.
    The question is ... will they want to spend money or not?
    1. Romario_Argo
      Romario_Argo 18 September 2022 11: 19
      +6
      the question is the meaning
      in order to at least somehow protect even Kyiv, it is NOT enough to put even an array of Soviet air defense systems
      4 S-300PT/PS divisions with 12 launchers each = 192 missiles / 24 channels
      cover 300 matches - 20 Tor-M1 air defense systems = 80 missiles / 40 channels
      and reinforce 24 launchers of the Buk-M1 air defense system = 96 missiles / 48 channels
      you get a layered air defense zone A2 / AD: 112 channels / 368 missiles
      to break through this air defense you need:
      at least 50 Iskander missiles (5 Brigades 120 missiles available)
      at least 50 Caliber missiles (we don’t even consider 128 SLCM + ALCM available on carriers)
      distraction of the air defense channel - MLRS Smerch at least 144 missiles 12 launchers (60 launchers available)
      at least 50 X-31 anti-radar missiles (24 Su-34 and Su-35) (120 Sushki available)
      SAM Patriot not protected by other SAMs - will be destroyed
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 18 September 2022 11: 43
        +1
        What's the point?
        Protect one object / agglomeration with all available forces? What is the gain?
        1. Romario_Argo
          Romario_Argo 18 September 2022 11: 51
          +4
          I described a reasonable scenario for protecting Kyiv - but it is close to our borders
          it is more expedient to protect Lviv in this way - as the future capital of Ukraine
          here then F-16 fighters based in Poland will be added - not under our blows
          But, MLRS Smerch will also reach Lviv - if with new ammunition
          and with a firing angle of 55 degrees at a range of 200 km - such firing was carried out
          This needs to be delivered to protect Lviv 10 divisions of the Patriot air defense system,
          cover them with 10 divisions of German Iris-T air defense systems
          and still add 100 Tor-M1 air defense systems - only they are not there
          without Thors - everything will be destroyed anyway
        2. Negro
          Negro 18 September 2022 13: 11
          +6
          )))
          It rarely happens, but the addict is right. Air defense alone is not enough, even the highest quality. The defense of the war does not win.

          Another thing is that air defense is also needed to organize an offensive.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 18 September 2022 13: 24
            +2
            War, a complex "event", defense, a complex matter, air defense, a complex matter to the nth degree.
      2. SpbGenn
        SpbGenn 18 September 2022 14: 33
        +1
        Excellent layout. What's the point? Who stood on whom?
    2. VSO-396
      VSO-396 19 September 2022 00: 23
      -1
      Quote: rocket757
      It is reported about secret negotiations between Kyiv and Washington on the supply of F-16 fighters and Patriot air defense systems
      . Serious expenses, with a high probability that everything will be in vain.
      The question is ... will they want to spend money or not?

      100 million have already been spent. Congress has allocated a Ukrainian for training. pilots. For 100 million, you can prepare more than one hundred. And there are rumors that they are already preparing for the F-15, -16 and A-10.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 19 September 2022 02: 43
        0
        Do you think that they are preparing them for one flight, pilots and equipment?
        They also need a service infrastructure, which is NOT AT ALL and it costs, mom, don’t worry, how much! Or they will reach the point that they will fly Kukuevsky from somewhere from there, from behind a hillock.
        Although, there is an option .... minke whales carry a lot / everything they need, practically bases, those who do not feel sorry ... this option is already being discussed here and there! But all the same, it costs more than it is spent now and on a lot.
        Those. everything is exactly as the question was originally raised .... minke whales will be spent or not ???
        1. VSO-396
          VSO-396 19 September 2022 03: 44
          -2
          And what kind of expensive infrastructure is needed for a field airfield? Do not forget that the Ukrainian Air Force is dispersed - 1-2 links to the airfield.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 19 September 2022 10: 40
            0
            I see .... disposable. Let it be, I don't care.
  8. Chronos
    Chronos 18 September 2022 10: 58
    +1
    Was this news already? Repeat admins
  9. nik-mazur
    nik-mazur 18 September 2022 10: 59
    -1
    We are talking about artillery systems, including self-propelled howitzers, MLRS systems of the HIMARS type, as well as ammunition for them ...
    If we add to this the hysterical demands of tanks from Germany, then we can draw a logical conclusion: there are very few or no weapons left in Ukraine.
    That is, the demilitarization of Ukraine will be carried out. It seems, however, that along the way, Europe will also have to be demilitarized ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. nik-mazur
        nik-mazur 18 September 2022 11: 38
        0
        Quote: Translator
        Weapons have become many times more
        Seriously? Since February, more than three thousand Ukrainian guns and mortars have been destroyed. Well, let's say two-thirds are mortars, it turns out that there are more than a thousand guns. And delivered 190 pieces. All of them - American "three axes", French Caesars, Polish Crabs, Czech Danes, German self-propelled guns and American guns of the WWII model from Lithuania. A thousand minus two hundred, it turns out, at least, eight hundred pieces less.
        It seems that at CIPSO they don’t even teach you arithmetic, but only press the right buttons ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. nik-mazur
            nik-mazur 18 September 2022 14: 44
            0
            Daughter of an officer, your mustache has peeled off! Immediately attach yourself back, one or two!
      2. The comment was deleted.
  10. Fizik13
    Fizik13 18 September 2022 11: 02
    +1
    Who will manage them? Ukrainian pilots and air defense operators who do not know the Ukrainian language? They are very expensive, it is not an instructor to sit in the rear.
    The West and the United States do not supply their tanks, they are afraid of anti-advertising, super hamers are left with a gulkin nose, they are constantly knocked out, and then give super planes and vaunted American air defense.
    1. Interpreter
      Interpreter 18 September 2022 11: 25
      -5
      There are more and more Hamers, rockets are no longer sorry at all, and they are doing their job perfectly.
      And super planes and vaunted air defense will make a huge contribution to this war.
      Well, don't worry about their money. They have not yet begun to spend the first lend-lease, but it will be necessary, and the second will be allocated.
      1. nik-mazur
        nik-mazur 18 September 2022 11: 39
        +4
        Quote: Translator
        More Hamers
        Yeah, as many as sixteen pieces, minus those lost for technical reasons ...
    2. Negro
      Negro 18 September 2022 13: 03
      +4
      Quote from Fizik13
      The West and the United States do not supply their tanks, they are afraid of anti-advertising,

      The West was tuned in to the new Afghanistan, so it supplied infantry weapons, and a lot of the best. Now it suddenly turned out that Ukraine is capable of securing a direct military victory. This is an unusual thought, the conditional West will digest it for quite some time. In the case of WWII, the same Lend-Lease appeared only a year and a half later, in the spring of the 41st. While the West supplies quite selectively. Not a single, for example, complete tank division was fully delivered (only artillery). But even these selective deliveries turned out to be enough won for what.
  11. The comment was deleted.
    1. Sergei V
      Sergei V 18 September 2022 12: 21
      -4
      This is the conclusion reached by the journalists of the Svobodnaya Pressa publication. They have been panicking for half a year now and everyone is deserting.
      1. runway-1
        runway-1 18 September 2022 14: 34
        -1
        Who are you contacting? A man at work, difficult, he writes "patriotic" nonsense and posts even more stupid pictures. efficiency really not very tall, but his bosses are pretty and he has enough to live on ...
  12. Egoza
    Egoza 18 September 2022 11: 12
    +1
    Zelensky's regime and Pentagon representatives are conducting secret negotiations

    What are they secret, if they are already reported in the press? )))
    1. Emergency
      Emergency 18 September 2022 11: 54
      +1
      Yes, Zelensky does not conduct any negotiations, and mattresses are estimating whether there is a chance or not if new weapons are driven into this pseudo-country. And won't it all be rubbish? The clown stands in a corner and waits for the decision of the owners.
  13. Interpreter
    Interpreter 18 September 2022 11: 17
    -7
    The hen pecks at the grain.
    In six months, they went from helmets to fighter jets.
    So in another six months they will have absolutely any weapons.
  14. IVZ
    IVZ 18 September 2022 11: 18
    +2
    When they talk about secret negotiations, as a rule, they probe the reaction of interested parties. In its absence or insufficient rigidity, negotiations become successful. And statements about "red lines" are already perceived as a green traffic light
  15. Sniper
    Sniper 18 September 2022 11: 22
    +6
    When the government once again draws a red line .. which no one but herself sees. That's all you can expect.
  16. Interpreter
    Interpreter 18 September 2022 11: 25
    -9
    Zelensky's regime

    Halva, halva, halva))))
    1. The comment was deleted.
  17. Astra55
    Astra55 18 September 2022 11: 36
    +1
    All clear.
    Deliveries will be after the end of the war with Russia.
    Our children will deal with this when they grow up.
  18. shinobi
    shinobi 18 September 2022 11: 38
    0
    With the F-16, the story is dark. Maybe they will, but most likely not. Too publicized aircraft, undeniably good, but not a rival for Russian echeloned air defense. this will be a direct entry of the United States into the conflict. They even give direct allies of patriots only for rent and with fully American service teams. .
    1. solar
      solar 18 September 2022 12: 09
      0
      Image losses are too high

      What are the image losses of an aircraft created 50 years ago? It was developed in 1974. But if he shows himself on the good side, then sales for another 10-15 years can be continued
      not a rival for Russia's layered air defense

      Six months ago, it was believed that the Armed Forces of Ukraine were not a rival for the Russian army. Three days - Kyiv, two more weeks - and all of Ukraine completely.
      Well, you go ...
      1. shinobi
        shinobi 18 September 2022 22: 33
        +1
        And what about 1974? These stuffing and gossip do not say what kind of fighter they are talking about. The 16th first version and version block 60, the filling is very different. .About the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They are not rivals now, meat. There is a war with NATO, if you haven’t understood yet. You can already talk about the direct participation of the bloc. This will be a long and dreary process. as fast as the patriots trumpeted, but by August everything would have settled down.
    2. Negro
      Negro 18 September 2022 12: 56
      +2
      Quote: shinobi
      Too publicized aircraft, undoubtedly good, but not a rival for Russia's echeloned air defense.

      See how it will be applied.
      Quote: shinobi
      The Yankee patriots will not give unambiguously. Otherwise, it will be a direct entry of the United States into the conflict. They even give direct allies of the patriots only for rent

      What are fantasies? The Patriot is far from the newest weapon, even Morocco sells it. The same NASAMS is already quite officially transported, and NASAMS will be fresher than a patriot.
      Quote: shinobi
      Otherwise, it will be a direct US entry into the conflict.

      And what exactly is the problem? Some kind of Chernivtsi, 40 km from the border, is conditionally taken, launchers are placed on one side of the ribbon, there is not much intelligence needed there, command posts on the other. And the Uzhgorod airport is generally stupidly located in Slovakia.
      1. shinobi
        shinobi 18 September 2022 22: 15
        -1
        Patriots are not for sale. Only rent. Search the internet.
        1. Negro
          Negro 18 September 2022 22: 39
          +1
          Patriot systems have been sold to the armed forces of the Netherlands, Poland, Germany, Japan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Taiwan, Greece, Spain, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Romania and Sweden. South Korea purchased several second-hand Patriot systems from Germany


          But maybe the truth and hide from me. Sometimes it happens.
          1. shinobi
            shinobi 19 September 2022 01: 21
            0
            Why am I saying so confidently, in 18 the Poles loudly declared that they had bought a battery of pariotes from the USA. And no one would have paid attention if the opposition journalists had not raised a howl in the USA. They have some kind of law prohibiting the sale of strategic weapons in the list of which this type of air defense system is located. The State Department had to give an official explanation from which it followed that the United States never and never sold patriots to anyone. Even to NATO allies. That is, they are, as it were, built into the alliance’s unified air defense system, but they are somehow not there. The decision on the use is made by the US military, not even NATO.
            PS: In general, I bought it for what I sell it for. Maybe it was all nonsense, but you were right.
  19. 28st region
    28st region 18 September 2022 11: 50
    +1
    So they can finish the game before the third world. Patience is not limitless.
  20. Emergency
    Emergency 18 September 2022 11: 51
    0
    If "patriots", then American calculations will work for them, do not go to a fortune teller
  21. Interpreter
    Interpreter 18 September 2022 11: 56
    -6
    Quote from: nik-mazur
    Quote: Translator
    More Hamers
    Yeah, as many as sixteen pieces, minus those lost for technical reasons ...


    So let's write it down - only 16 hamers were able to radically turn the tide on the fronts.
    What do we have for the last month in the asset? Sands?
    I already forgot - is this a "concrete" stage of the special operation, or is it another one?
    1. Negro
      Negro 18 September 2022 12: 49
      +3
      Quote: Translator
      only 16 hamers were able to radically turn the tide on the fronts.

      Well, not only. Either three or four divisional sets of artillery were supplied there.
      1. nik-mazur
        nik-mazur 18 September 2022 14: 57
        0
        Quote: Negro
        divisional sets of artillery.
        What is a divisional artillery kit?
        1. Negro
          Negro 18 September 2022 16: 09
          0
          Quote from: nik-mazur
          What is a divisional artillery kit?

          54 155 mm howitzers (towed or self-propelled) and 12 (or 18, I don't remember) MLRS.
          1. nik-mazur
            nik-mazur 18 September 2022 16: 37
            +1
            That is, 162 howitzers and 36 MLRS?
            At the same time, since February, more than three thousand Ukrainian guns and mortars, as well as more than eight hundred MLRS, have been destroyed.
            It turns out that 162 American howitzers and 36 MLRS compensate for the loss of thousands of artillery units and hundreds of MLRS?
            Something doesn’t fit here ...
            1. Negro
              Negro 18 September 2022 17: 04
              0
              Quote from: nik-mazur
              That is, 162 howitzers and 36 MLRS?

              More barrel.
              Quote from: nik-mazur
              At the same time, since February, more than three thousand Ukrainian guns and mortars, as well as more than eight hundred MLRS, have been destroyed.

              Write more, what their busurman to regret. In reality, Ukraine had about 130 Msta-Bs (replaced by 777 completely) and about 300 hyacinths and D-30s (these have not been replaced, partially still alive, but not really anymore. Mainly due to the exhaustion of the resource).
              The self-propelled guns were represented by two hundred acacias and pieces of 50 Msta and Hyacinth. Instead, one and a half hundred self-propelled guns 155 mm of different models.

              So we lost in quantity, we gained in quality.

              Quote from: nik-mazur
              It turns out that 162 American howitzers and 36 MLRS compensate for the loss of thousands of artillery units and hundreds of MLRS?

              Yes, this is such shit Soviet artillery and MLRS. And in itself, and especially after 30 years in the hands of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
              1. nik-mazur
                nik-mazur 18 September 2022 17: 38
                +1
                Quote: Negro
                So we lost in quantity, we gained in quality
                Even according to your calculations, it turns out that there were almost seven hundred trunks. Presumably, only in the ranks, not counting the bins.
                It turns out that they lost at least 700 guns, received 162. But even I strongly doubt that Western guns are five or more times more effective than Soviet ones. Again, artillery is not only accuracy, but also the density of fire.
                So it's still nonsense...
                1. Negro
                  Negro 18 September 2022 17: 45
                  0
                  Quote from: nik-mazur
                  Even according to your calculations, it turns out that there were almost seven hundred trunks.

                  Yes.
                  Quote from: nik-mazur
                  It turns out that they lost at least 700 guns, received 16

                  250-300, 50/50 towed and self-propelled guns.
                  Quote from: nik-mazur
                  So it's still nonsense...

                  What happens we see.
                  1. nik-mazur
                    nik-mazur 18 September 2022 18: 26
                    0
                    Quote: Negro
                    What happens we see.
                    Strictly speaking, no. All we see is Zelensky in Izyum. Everything else - success, victory, defeat, break - are interpretations based on the fact that success is measured by territories. Which is not a fact at all.
    2. nik-mazur
      nik-mazur 18 September 2022 14: 55
      -1
      Quote: Translator
      ... only 16 hamers were able to radically turn the tide on the fronts ...
      Firstly, baby, in Russian transcription it is written Himarsy. Or the Hymers. Keep an eye on this, otherwise the curator will wind up the tail for negligence and an unenthusiastic way of thinking.
      Secondly, not 16 Himars, but five waves of mobilization.
      Thirdly, fractures on all fronts came down to Zelensky in Izyum. Plus (minus) hell knows how many thousands of dead Ukrainian soldiers - it seems that no one counts them at all. Unlike Himarsov. Which, as it were, hints who is more valuable ...
  22. Mint Gingerbread
    Mint Gingerbread 18 September 2022 11: 58
    -3
    This is at least a reason to launch missile strikes beyond the boundaries of the undead. It's unlikely to be passed on.
    1. Sergei V
      Sergei V 18 September 2022 12: 23
      -4
      And before that there were no reasons? You still haven’t understood that there will never be any missile strikes, in any case. There are impotent people in the Kremlin, and even most of the kids are still there
  23. Adagka
    Adagka 18 September 2022 12: 26
    -2
    In the real world, and not in the cozy little world of Kremlinbots, the decision has already been made, and while the leaders are busy with withdrawals, regroupings, grain deals and free distribution of fertilizers, the Americans are in full swing preparing raguli for this equipment. Now, if the Kremlinbots had been sent to the front .... they would have been given them an unparalleled one, they would have added another 2 million. members of the unit, who, in unison, walk in ranks to vote .... These would be the ranks and go to the front .... They would have taken out the raguli long ago and taken Kukuev.
  24. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 18 September 2022 12: 46
    -1
    well ... even if they put it in and what's critical ... how long will it take to prepare air defense calculations, and even more so F-16 pilots ... this is more and more a PR campaign ... more feathers and a squeak than business
    there is of course a variant of calculations from mercenaries BUT this is all to be treated ... US air defense systems are not a panacea at all))
    1. Sergei V
      Sergei V 18 September 2022 13: 01
      -2
      I think they have been preparing for a long time, they are just waiting for a go-ahead
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 18 September 2022 14: 26
      +4
      air defense calculations


      Nasams - Crews are trained in an unnamed NATO country.
      Aspid - calculations are trained in Spain, the article was here a week or more ago.
      Iris-T - calculations will be accepted by a training center in Germany in September, before that there was selection and basic remote training (that is, theory, tests, etc.).
      Stormer - the calculations are prepared, the installations are already at the front.

      pilots F-16


      In the current US budget, money is allocated by law for the training of pilots and technical personnel. Therefore, they will start in the fall, the terms are 4-6 months. That's just in time for the operations of the spring F-16 will drive up.
  25. Rostislav
    Rostislav 18 September 2022 12: 49
    -1
    F16 deliveries? And who will manage? Americans / Canadians of Ukrainian origin? Or will the next "mercenary" be imprisoned for the levers of the aircraft?
    I doubt that they will agree on pstavki.
    1. VSO-396
      VSO-396 19 September 2022 03: 21
      -1
      Quote: Rostislav
      F16 deliveries? And who will manage? Americans / Canadians of Ukrainian origin? Or will the next "mercenary" be imprisoned for the levers of the aircraft?
      I doubt that they will agree on pstavki.

      Rostislav, and you have no doubt. "The Red Army is the strongest of all" I sang in kindergarten. Ukrainian soldiers are exactly the same Slavs as Russians. And, I think, at least they are not inferior to the Russians from the outskirts. Expect that they will not master Western technology, you know ...
  26. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 18 September 2022 12: 51
    0
    The Pentagon are secretly negotiating the transfer or purchase of F-16 fighter jets and Patriot anti-aircraft systems, as well as Gray Eagle drones, by Ukraine.
    Yes, they may well be obliged to supply the countries that received them earlier, with a promise to supply new ones. "I'll give you back even better"?
  27. Stils
    Stils 18 September 2022 13: 10
    -1
    After crossing the red line, there are bound to be consequences. in the form of concerns.
  28. ximkim
    ximkim 18 September 2022 13: 39
    -1
    Most likely, Ukraine will receive air defense when it comes very close to the border of the Russian Federation.
    Ukraine will receive aircraft after crossing the border of the Russian Federation.
  29. Kotisha
    Kotisha 18 September 2022 14: 55
    -1
    As I understand it, the words of our leadership "let's wait and see" just fit into this story with secret supplies! then we will puff out our cheeks menacingly, slap our lips and talk about some kind of red features! Why not take a strong-willed decision to take off the white gloves and gouge everything there to a fucking hair dryer, and it is significant with all the special effects so that it would immediately become clear and understandable to everyone!
  30. besikexe
    besikexe 18 September 2022 16: 35
    0
    An Israeli defense company is supplying the Armed Forces with anti-UAV systems via Poland. The name of the company and systems is not specified.